Elden Ring (DLC hype room)

[languid tiger]

i would agree with you there

it was good and keeps getting buffed

now imo it's like, decisively the strongest weapon cat

[frozen olive]

Fire Knights Greatsword, Haligtree Crest Greatshield and Scarlet Aeonia was my winning setup

[kind garden]

Damn.

[languid tiger]

by a wide margin

[mighty warren]

oh god i didnt even remember FKGS for a moment
please tell me that got excluded from the speed buff

[languid tiger]

nope

FKGS and godslayer also got the buff afaik

[mighty warren]

That is
fuckin mortifying

because they were already fast for CS

[frozen olive]

That's crazy

Damn

[languid tiger]

welcome to colossal swords that are faster than greathammers

i think

i had to step out so i can't do more testing, but it's what i saw on twitter

[mighty warren]

me who refuses to put down my black steel greathammer:

[frozen olive]

Jeez

This is insane

[languid tiger]

yeah it's a deranged and unpleasant patch, and I'll probably be downpatching to play unless they revert most of it

or someone mods the sanity back in

[obtuse halo]

The problem was just the healthpool and maintaining status pressure mostly. Phase 1 felt good with the bow

Phase 2 less so but that was always gonna be tough in a fight that wants you glued to the boss, negating the traditional benefit of archery

[kind garden]

this is how you look on the bright side of weird patches

[outer flint]

o7

time for a rellana run.... again .....

[steel scroll]

unhinged pcr nerf copium: ||they nerfed them cus they're the door boss to the next dlc||

[mighty warren]

that would be

SO FUCKIN FUNNY

[frozen olive]

what version is the new update that changes PCR

oh cool

restarted steam and now it's updating

[lilac condor]

I’ve going kinda slow for my first playthrough and now I’m kinda sad I won’t experience peak radahn

Like of course it was hard. It was supposed to be. It was the strongest demigod with divine intervention

[old brook]

o7 Rest in Peace, you great honking clown

Definitely hit way harder than I thought they would though

[proven cloak]

thorns
bloom
bird feathers
ALL BUFFED

[proven cloak]

my eyes did kinda bug out at that part though

noooo, really?

:(

[atomic plinth]

Damn

He was definitely too hard but this sounds like it swung around to him being too easy

[old brook]

It's more evidence of his strength, he's resisting the charm

[proven cloak]

PCR nerfs..? homophobia has struck again.....

[old brook]

But they didn't touch Malenia

[proven cloak]

finlays in the closet, ashes chest

so they can ignore her

plus you know Malenia would never pass the Bechdel test

[old brook]

I guess not talking at all technically counts for the big boy

[proven cloak]

another win for autism!

[nova smelt]

To everyone who beat the final boss prenerf

[vivid spire]

I’m not too irritated ngl

[vivid spire]

YEAHHH

[covert schooner]

I’m actually really sad they nerfed him ngl

Orphan of Kos patch when

He’s too strong

[old brook]

Bloodborne just needs a 'you spawn with enough blood vials' patch

[mighty warren]

i'll hold out hope for a mod that restores buddy to his former glory

[covert schooner]

Yeah

[vivid spire]

Yall are upset I can see that

[stoic sleet]

I'm actually kinda fine with PCR getting nerfed bc tackling him and Malenia back-to-back burnt me out to the point of kind of hating the game for a while until I recovered

And while Malenia is at least an optional boss, PCR is like "oh you wanted to beat the DLC? too bad :)"

[old brook]

They should buff Midra through the roof in response

[mighty warren]

I'd take that trade

[frozen olive]

agree to disagree

PCR should be strong as fuck

it's the final boss of a hard DLC

[stoic sleet]

Yeah, no amount of "he should be strong" makes five hours of repeatedly running into a brick wall fun for me

But as you say, agree to disagree

[frozen olive]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[proven cloak]

I appreciated the challenge, even with a few things that should've been fixed for sure (vfx, cross slash)

[stoic sleet]

I think my metric for hard boss fights is "am I learning anything from failed attempts"

[proven cloak]

but I'm a little disappointed how easy Morgott / Godfrey / Radabeast are in the base game, for the same reason

[stoic sleet]

And Radahn phase 1 was absolutely meeting that benchmark

[proven cloak]

as main quest non-optional bosses, they're a little on the safe side

[frozen olive]

i think phase 2 could maybe be tuned down a little bit

[proven cloak]

so people can complete the game

[frozen olive]

but not much

[stoic sleet]

Phase 2? Not so much

[frozen olive]

the vfx change pretty much the only thing i wanted

maybe tune down the damage a little bit or the speed a little bit

but otherwise i don't really have that much of a problem with it

there are a bunch of ways you can make that fight easier in a descending level of "this makes the fight my bitch"

[outer flint]

yeah I agree, I did learn some stuff in p2 but some attacks I felt like I just tanked and made it through eventually

[frozen olive]

Probably i would just make a few attacks in phase 2 a tad slower

[proven cloak]

I found phase 2 followed phase 1's learning pretty close

[frozen olive]

But what they've done nlw seems mega overkill and i'm quite disappointed by it

[proven cloak]

moves like the slam-slash don't change in tempo on phase change

[stoic sleet]

I mean yeah, the nerfs might be overboard, I haven't tried the fight post-nerf and I'm not going to for some time

[stoic sleet]

Mostly yeah, it was the moves with no P1 equivalent that got me

[proven cloak]

he does have like 4 fucking special attacks lmao

[stoic sleet]

Namely the... what, lightspeed slash? The one where he goes in the air and then streaks down to you

I found that impossible to read

Partly due to sfx lag in fairness

[old brook]

Yeah it was a little too 'one mistake and you're set up to die' for something with that many chicanerous moves

[stoic sleet]

But he could also swap targets mid combo with no warning which is like. Why.

[old brook]

Trying to get a heal off phase 2 was misery

[proven cloak]

I think this + all the big cinematic AOE moves are dev response to designing around spirit ashes

imo

nearly every dlc boss has really large, arena-hitting elemental moves

and ways to disengage and swap targets

[old brook]

His moves feel like design against spirit ashes

[proven cloak]

yeah

thats what I mean

'designed to take into account and still be brutal'

[outer flint]

yeahh

pain

[proven cloak]

I think Malenia's heal on hit + general rule breaking was for the same reason

[real shadow]

https://x.com/CentralScruty/status/1833897062192312746

Nick (@CentralScruty) on X

Consort Radahn's Arena has two towers with corpses falling down them, and fromsoftware nerfed him on 9/11.

What did they mean by this?

Twitter · Sep 11, 2024, 3:55 PM

[vivid spire]

I agree ngl

The flashing lights made my game freeze for a second

Just a sec.. and then I died

[light bridge]

I think that on the other end of the spectrum is BAYLEEEEEE

It's a wonderful audiovisual experience, and considerably funnier to fight

[mighty warren]

Shrug, liked both but i loved PCR

[frail sky]

[proven cloak]

I found him much less frustrating than on launch Malenia

[stoic sleet]

My complaints about Bayle begin and end with lockon/hitbox weirdness. Just let me lock on to his leg like every other dragon and we'd be golden

But yeah, otherwise I do like that fight a lot

[frail sky]

I thought she never got any patches?

[light bridge]

I loved Malenia

The fight without ashes feels like a dance

[frail sky]

Unrelated,
https://x.com/Starbind_S/status/1833868101705687287

Chronozbergh☕ (@Starbind_S) on X

"I Abandon Here My Love🥺"
#EldenRing

Twitter · Sep 11, 2024, 2:00 PM

[light bridge]

I can picture it with a wilhelm scream

[real shadow]

The Malenia fight feels like one that is carefully balanced to be difficult but not an infuriating manner. She's fast, hits hard, and heals, but she's also surprisingly fragile and has specific tells and spaces out her attacks so it doesn't feel like a constant onslaught.

I felt none of that with PCR who was just mostly annoying in phase 2, where it's just a lot of bullshit I didn't really like.

[stoic sleet]

I think that this is a cold take but my one singular problem with Malenia is Waterfowl Dance. Without that, or at least with it tuned down some, she would probably be one of my favorite fights

[real shadow]

I think Waterfowl is what makes her so dangerous. It's a little bullshit, certainly, but it's what keeps you on your toes. Without it I think she'd be just less difficult overall and as the penultimate superboss of the base game that would feel...y'know, wrong.

It would be like taking away Orphan of Koss's big jumping whip attack. It's iconic.

[stoic sleet]

I would just like for it either to be reasonably dodgeable without needing to find an online guide, or to not take me down from full to zero HP when I'm at 60 Vigor with decent armor and multiple defense boosts. If one of those things were true then I'd be fine with it

As it is it just kind of feels like the RNG intermittently decides, hey, fuck you and fuck your health bar

[languid tiger]

this is literally the opposite of everything I've ever thought about both bosses lmao

malenia is designed to be difficult in a boring and obnoxious way

where she breaks every game mechanic in the service of being less fun

where PCR is "you've played the entire base game and dlc. do you know the basic game mechanics?"

"if yes, do them well"

[old brook]

I'll take Waterfowl over Lightspeed Nonsense Blitz

[languid tiger]

"if no, learn them"

and most people just...didn't want to learn them

[old brook]

There's nothing base game mechanic about him screaming a 90 yard aoe four times in a row

Usually the input read heal response is some sort of little fireball

[languid tiger]

didn't want to roll, didn't want to block, didn't want to learn patterns, didn't want to adapt or use any defensive tools other than stunlocking with summons, which didn't work on the high-posture pcr

and now they won't have to, because it's a joke of a boss

[old brook]

Now you're being lil rude

[real shadow]

It was kind of a joke before, just a bad one that most people didn't laugh at because of the many, many reasons people have listed over the past ~2 months.

[frail sky]

...that is probably the least charitable and most insulting interpretation of why people didn't like the boss possible

[real shadow]

Also that, yeah.

[frail sky]

You are, quite literally, just going "git gud" but with more words

[languid tiger]

maybe I'm just bitter, but it's the overwhelming sentiment other than the lightshow on reddit and twitter

the lights I'm glad are gone, because that wasn't a test of anything other than migraines for players

(and they haven't actually been adjusted as much as they probably need to)

i guess i just need to cool off

[real shadow]

I very much knew the game's mechanics by the time I got to PCR because I had like 200+ hours into the game by that point and I found it to be a lesser experience compared to Malenia or, really, most of the game's bosses. He's not particularly imaginative with his moveset, has some wonkly fucking hitboxes going on with his weapons, the dumb lightshow, his ability to turn on a fucking dime. Any one of them I could overlook but when combined it's just not very fun and ultimately I just shield + spear turtle'd him to get it the fuck over with.

[frail sky]

Perhaps we should move on from this

[real shadow]

I'm alright with that.

[languid tiger]

I'll apologize for my phrasing and move on, yeah

[frozen olive]

gonna try to speedrun to PCR on my main save tomorrow since i don't want to wait for seamless and see how different the boss is

[proven cloak]

her waterfowl got lowered in damage afaik

maybe not though, idk

if she didn't, I can say "Less frustrating than Malenia to slam my head against" (and I like Malenia's fight)

[warm wharf]

Tbh, I can usually avoid death by waterfowl, the part that stings about it is that she gets a solid third of her healthbar back every time she does it and I don't manage a perfect dodge.

But also I preferred Malenia over Radahn+ by a good bit, not in the least because Radahn just never seems to react to what I do. He bulldozes through, throws off a combo, maybe I get a hit in, he throws off another, and so forth. He's surprisingly easy to stagger with the Sekiro tear, but even that he gets up from and pops directly into another combo. Malenia, on the other hand, feels a hell of a lot more like I'm fighting an actual person/entity, who is knocked back by my attacks, has some conception of stamina, and isn't just a brick wall of code.

But also Radahn was fairly satisfying to beat, whereas I learned Malenia long enough ago that she doesn't quite have that zing anymore. Still more fun to fight for me, but maybe I'll warm up to the big dude.

_ _
But also reflecting on it damn did Malenia suck the first time I fought her. It took until my second playthrough for me to like her at all, and I think by then I'd been told the basics of not instantly dying to waterfowl and so I didn't have to throw myself against that more

The first time I fought her, I banged my head against her for a while, regrouped and strategized, and then used a weird little flame/bleed katana I'd found since flame is good against rot and bleed is good against humanoids and slashing is good against things without armor. And then because Rivers of Blood was mad goofy back in the early days (might still be) I beat her in two tries with no real thought put into it and was miffed.

[onyx trench]

There are a few dragons in the base game that you cannot leg lock and all of them are miserable, too

[old brook]

Wonder how hard Flame Lightning was buffed

[jaunty solar]

:((

The nerf to Radahn is like, fine mostly

But I hate that they removed the opening spin attack that denies an easy summon

And I dislike that they nerfed the radius on Miquella's holy nuke

Those are like, the coolest moves ever

[atomic marsh]

Doesn't affect me because I beat the Launch version

[stoic sleet]

honestly by the 10th attempt or so that opening spin attack had become like an old friend

like, yes, hello, nice to see you again too

had a nice little rhythm of fog gate > dodge the spin > black knife to carve off a chunk of HP

[jaunty solar]

https://tenor.com/view/jojo-gif-21364641

[outer flint]

yeah!

ough black knife..

do enemies get the hp back when destined death wears off? I'm pretty sure players do when fighting maliketh

[stoic sleet]

they don't unless they have a way to heal

[outer flint]

[stoic sleet]

it makes black knife very effective against bosses, just take off 10% of their HP bar for free

but only at the beginning of the fight

[outer flint]

yee

berry cool

[obtuse halo]

the funniest part with the opening spin attack is it has a long enough recovery and a consistent enough dodge that you can still get your easy summon very consistently, as long as you don't flub the dodge

[proven cloak]

PCR in general was aggressive, but pretty predictable

the spin was one of the freebie openings to attack, like the slam -> slashes -> slam combo, or the grab

(at least ime)

[median rock]

finally got around to testing the sword of light/dark changes. damn, they feel SO much better now

i actually think sword of dark might be better now, even, since the ashes of war are actually usable outside of the prebuff

previously light was the only viable one since you could open with it and enjoy the fruits of +20% holy damage, since the ash has no hyperarmor (you're just standing there normally lol), with the range, it was impossible to get any hits off on somebody who wasn't entirely unaware of your presence

but overall the darkness ash is a lot better of you land it - in my (99 faith, holy scorpion) testing it's around 3k, but light hits for around 1.5k (light is multiple hits in a sweep vs one so it's a lot less consistent)

very happy with those

of course, same damage as 4 R1s (for the same time & no fp cost), but it's fun and the buff is worth it imo

[azure cradle]

Hmm, sadge they overnerfed PCR, only that effectively undodge-able cross-slash and vfx really needed toning down.

[frozen olive]

yeah

[azure cradle]

Hopefully unnerf will happen like with SSR.

[frozen olive]

SSR?

[onyx trench]

Star Scourge Radahn

[frozen olive]

ahhh

[spark pine]

Beat Elden ring dlc final boss woo

Finale boss killing drip

Now to go on to bloodborne

[outer flint]

[proven cloak]

saw a cool take that Marika + Radagon represent the two fundementals

Radagon as Regression isn't a new one, lots of people have made that claim

but Marika as Causality, the person who causes the cycles of the world to play out again?

I liked it

and the driver of plot, the person who makes decisions and causes change (like shattering the Elden Ring)

[grave plinth]

Replicating a cycle of violence

[frozen olive]

oh sick

Seamless Co-op got updated literally today

now i can try nerfed PCR

going to remake a budget version of the character i beat PCR with and give it a go

oh fuck yes

providence smiles upon me

got FKGS from the first enemy i killed to get it

ok yeah this is

a lot

ok would have gotten that second try if i didn't forget about ||Miquellas rune||

damn this is kinda sad

the new timings got me kinda fucked up ngl

[proven cloak]

happened to me a little bit too lmao

||https://x.com/zulliethewitch/status/1834196525569683849?s=46||

^ final boss shitpost

[covert schooner]

I just saw the new fight

I don’t love the changes to his attack speed, I think they def went overboard

I think they should have gone with the changes to the effects and tried that out first

[glossy stag]

What have they done?

[proven cloak]

added a pause to the end of a few of his attacks, (allegedly + patch notes say) lowered damage, vfx fixes

changed the slash

[covert schooner]

I gotta admit
Complaints for the previous aside
I preferred the VFX for the dash attack thing for the original

[atomic plinth]

Waow, I didn't realize that Midra branched out into making scam websites, must've fallen on hard times

[grave plinth]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/s/CWH5OWjyJg

[proven cloak]

"A debate between these two would be epic" but its frenzied Midra + Goldmask

[frozen olive]

trueeeee

[proven cloak]

https://twittervx.com/SabbyNightmaren/status/1813000719621845045

https://twittervx.com/SabbyNightmaren/status/1831838269619020224

important videos

[outer flint]

😭

[outer flint]

https://fxtwitter.com/ZullieTheWitch/status/1829546389447258325

🥺

[frail sky]

Yes please there isn’t enough Melina in the game

[real shadow]

She barely shows up in the game and it feels like a missed opportunity.

[proven cloak]

finger maidens in general feel like there was some rewrites in dev

[proven cloak]

its gotta be 2 or 4 for me

who would EVER pick 3

[languid tiger]

if malenia isn't bloodlusted, i choose 6 so i have an aisle

micolash probably sleeps all flight

i can't imagine i'm an owl target

[proven cloak]

I didn't want to get anywhere near the rot

[languid tiger]

i'm nowhere near miquella so leda doesn't have anything to worry about

[proven cloak]

and then I realized the Friede + Malenia placements also for lore reasons

[languid tiger]

and malenia has her shit contained most of the time

[proven cloak]

and I do NOT want to be next to their rot versus no-rot fight

[proven cloak]

yeah but this one has the rot-goddess hair so I just assumed it was that version

I want someone strong in between me and Shabriri / Dung Eater, for sure

at least a few other people would be leaving here frenzied and I dont want to be one of them

[languid tiger]

ah true

i didn't notice that that's rot god

but it's got the eyes and the hair

who's next to 4 again?

don't recognize the character

[proven cloak]

I mean God-Miq might be able to do something about the rot

4 is...

BB prostitute(?) woman

at least, unsanctioned blood seller (sexual implications)

and next to her is ||the cleric who kills her for being impure if you take enough of her blood gifts||

[outer flint]

zamn

i didn’t progress that quest at all

4 seems chill enough

also probably more legroom if it’s the front of the block

[languid tiger]

OH RIGHT ADELLA

and uhhhhh

arianna?

arianna

yeah i choose next to them probably

so 4's my shot

[frozen olive]

The very worst flight

[languid tiger]

wait fuck that's not owl

who the fuck is that

next to 2

the image is low-res so i thought it was him

but squinting there's no fucking beard

and that ain't his outfit

[proven cloak]

huh

I looked up owl and got the same image

[languid tiger]

huh

maybe it's just super bad res

[proven cloak]

he shaved.....

😭

[glossy delta]

It's deffo meant to be owl, but yeah the model looks weird
Id honestly sit next to him
How is killing my dog ass getting him Japan

[frail sky]

4, definitely. I feel like every other seat has a chance of me dying

[lilac condor]

Idk I sat at 5 and was perfectly fine

Had an awesome convo with Kindly Miquella

I’m thinking about starting a fan club with Leda

Hey have y’all heard about this age of compassion?

[vivid spire]

Malenia (: Adella (:

[atomic marsh]

5 cuz I'm tryna smash

[grave plinth]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/671265921096089610/1285439888434663529/459864328_3791535101167423_2412765285462343275_n.png?ex=66ea46af&is=66e8f52f&hm=2fdd216adb1f3a690ebfa27b3c91ee950a52bcbd046e5deee98bf4a4dd2c1721&

[outer flint]

||https://fxtwitter.com/hinchloveshakao/status/1835656867743490470|| dlc final boss spoilies :3

[covert schooner]

||A second radhan has hit the divine gate||

[light bridge]

https://x.com/116116116el/status/1836029491392479463?s=46&t=zmXK8CKXJDw_ZkzPLSivOw

116116116 (@116116116EL) on X

Morgott check him out, he's just Mohg
#ELDENRING #エルデンリングI

Twitter · Sep 17, 2024, 1:08 PM

[grave plinth]

Morgott wouldn't question Marika's hatred

[mighty warren]

Okay but check those fuckin shoes out man, mohg got that good shit

[proven cloak]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1R5ujG-NU1uaY9nqXyRDJ6xg4ZDAG1-YJCzyg8xTATsM/edit?usp=sharing

ER character accent sheet someone made

I'd never considered the Hornsent being given Irish accents as a thematic choice because of their oppression

[kind garden]

I appreciate the confirmation that Liurnia is just fantasy Wales

[lilac condor]

If the Land of Shadows' Hornsent are all Irish, and Scottish accents are entirely missing, does that mean we'll get an extremely Scottish second DLC?

[kind garden]

God, I wish

[lilac condor]

Bagpipes can be a new weapon type

have them blow bubbles at people

[kind garden]

thing is, if they took us to Fantasy Scotland it would have to open with a warning like this

[covert schooner]

I do wonder if we’ll get a second dlc

Fortunately/Unfortunately, Miyazaki saying we won’t is meaningless

He’s a massive liar

[signal harness]

My gut feeling is no but I'd like one

[grave plinth]

Melina DLC plz

[trail sail]

?

weird thing to say

[covert schooner]

No I didn’t mean that negatively

Just that he constantly says things that don’t turn out to be true, usually underselling the game lol

Like him saying the dlc was just limgrave sized

[signal harness]

That was funny

[outer flint]

30 hours for base game

[kind garden]

Miyazaki is like, weirdly consistently known for saying shit about the games he makes that outright ain’t true but not in an intentionally deceptive or harmful way

[covert schooner]

^

[proven cloak]

Im pretty satisfied with where the dlc left off

idk what you’d focus on in another one

[languid tiger]

the moon

space

star bullshit

[proven cloak]

Whole games bent around Marika, and idk what else you could look at for her

[languid tiger]

what the fuck is the procession of stars

tell me more about space fromsoftware

is bloodborne canon?

is bloodborne canon????

[proven cloak]

its dark IG. And full of beauty and wonder

[languid tiger]

metyr is the most great one-ass motherfucker boss i've ever seen

THAT'S A BLOODBORNE

IT'S A BLOODBORNE ARENA TOO

IS BLOODBORNE CANON TO ELDEN RING?

GIVE ME A BLOODBORNE DLC

(pls more space)

[proven cloak]

Will, or some say current
Grant us fingors

to cleanse our Bestial Sanctum ™️ idiocy

its like bloodborne with more neoplatonism and abrahamic metaphysics

I think bosses like Astel or Metyr work best because of how inexplicable and vast they feel

A whole dlc of them could rob them of that gravitas

[proven cloak]

no cause see bloodborne is about motherhood and craving children and ER is about being a child and craving a mother

its completely different

[proven cloak]

I think my favorite part of Metyr's design is how she continues the Two Finger's duality theme by having most of her body play off powers of 2

1 head / eye, 2 necks, 2 tail fingers, 2 arms, 4 fingers on each hand - 8 in total, 8 legs on each side - 16 total.

[outer flint]

:O

awesome sauce

[proven cloak]

even her pupil has the weird thing

where its divided into 4 chunks evenly

feels very mathematically precise compared to stuff like Astel's tail or the Elden Beast's innards

and makes the bursting fingers coming out of her feel like something that probably shouldn't be happening

[outer flint]

dang..

berry cool

[proven cloak]

but who knows. shes bloodbourne. Maybe thats supposed to be how she looks

Calvin and Hobbes dad "every soulsbourne boss is either a bloodbourne or a gwyn" is this anything

[tropic stream]

"The DLC is the size of Limgrave" etc etc

[kind garden]

I love the Todd Howard / Miyazaki imagine with the For Fun / For Glory menu from Sm4sh

[light bridge]

||https://x.com/clinickcase/status/1836420781359710541?s=46&t=zmXK8CKXJDw_ZkzPLSivOw||

SOTE final boss spoilers

[atomic marsh]

The difference is that Todd over-promises and under-sells and Miyazaki underpromises and oversells and also will just straight up say the sky is green

presumably to gas light you

[proven cloak]

he's prepping people to be able to understand npc dialogue

[atomic marsh]

Miyazaki is just like Araki

all of his characters talk like that because that's just how he talks

[covert schooner]

Yeah I wanna be really clear that I was calling him a liar playfully

[trail sail]

This is fair

[unreal bloom]

Giving int/arc anything

Give us that poison spell the mushroom guys use

Oh uh for lore it could focus on idk the fae or whatever

They’re canon

Only mentioned in one item description

Blue swordsman deserved more play

[proven cloak]

hmmm

as much as the Helphen is though

hard to tell if its an actual group, another name for something we already know about (spirits, sprites, etc), or an allegory

imo, but I'm not particularly attached to this read, they're 'just' spiritual beings

or maybe a form of life that started as spirit, instead of living and becoming spiritual on death

[unreal bloom]

The fae gave a fella a sword that let him seal an outer god

The only other being to come close to that type of power is basically a god

[proven cloak]

given the lake of rot's location, and the flowing sword being patterned after flowing water

I think the faerie is related to the Ainsel river

either its spirit, or representing it

theres also some Arthurian mythos points if the faerie disburting fabled swords comes out of water

also the other river being "Siofra"

[unreal bloom]

Naw it’s just shintoism

[proven cloak]

which is literally fae

[unreal bloom]

Flowing water dispelling kegare is central to shintoist purification rituals

Kegare is Scarlet Rot

[proven cloak]

yeah I basically dont see a difference between Fae or Kami or Spirit, intrinsically

[unreal bloom]

Here is all the lore on our buddy in blue

Legends speak of a master of the sword garbed in blue, and his curved blade that was patterned after flowing water.
Cowl of a nomadic warrior. The blue color of its fabric symbolizes brisk waters, as fluid and flowing as the sword in the hand of its wearer. Just as still waters turn foul, stagnation leads to decay. Warriors must remain ever-drifting.
It is said that a blind swordsman was the originator of this technique — the art of allowing one's opponent to strike so as to leave them vulnerable to a well-timed reply.
Though born into the accursed rot, when the young girl encountered her mentor and his flowing blade, she gained wings of unparalleled strength.
The dancer in blue represents a fairy, who in legend bestowed a flowing sword upon a blind swordsman. Blade in hand, the swordsman sealed away an ancient god — a god that was Rot itself.

[proven cloak]

bro was locked in for sure

[unreal bloom]

Why his sword so ass

[proven cloak]

challenge runner

[unreal bloom]

True…

[proven cloak]

I sometimes wonder if 'sealing' rot was the right play in the end

"still waters turn foul", and its possible the lake of rot is only so rotted because its essence was left to seep underneath Liurnia for who-knows how long

to the point where the lakes themselves are sinking

[gray leaf]

It would be very fromsoft for a major problem to be solved by sealing it away and locking in place and that lack of motion just made everything worse for everyone.

[proven cloak]

in Elden Ring especially

the Flame of Ruin, the Frenzied Flame, Omens versus Hornsent, what happens to Saint Trina...

suppression intensifies it

depends on what you think of Outer Gods and their expressions though

[mighty warren]

the more i think on it the more i feel like scadutree avatar might be my favorite boss in the dlc weirdly enough

[covert schooner]

It’s a really good one!

It honestly also felt like fromsoft taking the piss in terms of kinda making fun of multi phase bosses

Which endears me to it significantly

[mighty warren]

Iunno if i'd say it was taking the piss, it felt more like the natural conclusion since even the music itself changes with each flower

which by the way god i still love that, especially just with how phase 3 sounds

[obtuse halo]

Scadutree Avatar is great

[covert schooner]

That’s fair, it just reads as classic fromsoft ‘comedy’ to me

[obtuse halo]

it's also one of the bosses where you really feel the moveset changes between phases too

it doesn't need a drastic change in form or a ton of additional swells, it just gets new moves and you definitely notice

[covert schooner]

It does also outright feel like “okay yeah we learned from the erdtree avatars, here’s ONE GUY but he’s cracked as fuck”

Like honestly I’d love to see the hypothetical erdtree avatar that wasn’t split apart like they are in the base game

[mighty warren]

I also like that its pretty blatant in the fact its multiphase what with the critical attack chances

[obtuse halo]

also honestly its hp bar is too small in phase 1 to really "trick" you

basically any build will be like "oh yeah I'm chunking this thing, there's gotta be another phase"

[covert schooner]

Ngl I just thought he was really weak to holy

At the time I mean

[obtuse halo]

admittedly my first experience was hitting him with fire

and there's no real mistaking that chunking for anything else

knocked off like 40% of phase 1's hp bar in one shot

[covert schooner]

lol fair enough

[proven cloak]

wouldnt this just be Elden Beast

[covert schooner]

I don’t think so

[proven cloak]

its like a big tree and shoots 9 morbillion laser beams

thats 2/3rds of an Erdtree Avatar to me

[covert schooner]

Elden Beast never really read as big tree to me

[obtuse halo]

it mostly looks alien but there's some definite branching tree shape in there

the golden lines inside its form are basically shaped like a conifer

though the ones in its arms are very reminiscent of human bones

[covert schooner]

I definitely don’t think they would have called the scadutree avatar that if it wasn’t directly analogous to the erdtree avatars imo

[obtuse halo]

Stray thought: Beast is a loaded term in elden ring, and the elden beast does have five fingers

[covert schooner]

Ooo

[obtuse halo]

a better shot to demonstrate that where you can see the "bones" real good

[covert schooner]

That’s fair

Tbh I never read that as a tree but as a nervous system

[obtuse halo]

oh, it's definitely evoking that too

along with all the stars in its body

[old brook]

Beast is just so sea sluggy

cousins

[proven cloak]

its mostly the tail tbh

[obtuse halo]

yeah, the tail kind of spreads out like roots...or horns

[proven cloak]

I do also read 'nervous system' from it

its got a lot goin on

[proven cloak]

I've been thinking of EB and its relation to horns a bit recently, thats a good point

adding to beast as a loaded term, the Elden Beast is heavily made out of Shadow specifically

and given how shadow-bound beasts are made by the Fingers... 🤷

idk

wonder if the idea of Empyreans followed by a beast doesn't come from whatever the relationship between the EB and Metyr is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLBJNWKXhok

always loved the detail of how the vital energy inside 'flows'

not only does the beast have 5 fingers, between Astel, Metyr, and it - its the only one with 5 fingered hands.

who've got 6 and 4

more than assuming the others are "unintelligent" though, I just think it means its connected to the beasts 5 fingers, or 5 fingered life in general

already a big Elden Ring symbol where the Beastmen live, right?

https://pherenth.tumblr.com/post/702470868000964608/elden-beast-elden-ring-official-artbook

Slug.....

[covert schooner]

https://youtu.be/nqSkJ66uecY?si=uB6LEeG_aphQVIFj

[frozen olive]

while the fight is not the best ever

the Elden Beast is such a fucking cool boss

i love how just

ethereal and otherworldly it is

[proven cloak]

the concept art goes so hard

I love how the little veins in this one terminate in shooting stars

its like a walking cosmological event

[frozen olive]

yeah

it's such a fucked up majestic creature

[obtuse halo]

Huh, you know, curled up like that...

[frozen olive]

it's like a part of the night sky itself just fucking popped down to try to kill you

[obtuse halo]

and Golden Centipedes are a thing

[proven cloak]

like some sort of vassal... of the universe itself....

[covert schooner]

Ohhhhh sekiro……

[frozen olive]

interesting theory

[proven cloak]

yeah idk where to go with the centipedes but you might be cooking

besides asking if the cursemark of the centipede or Fia's mending rune are still gold

just 'drained of color' like the somber stones, or the eclipse sun

[proven cloak]

extremely funny video

[mighty warren]

TINY MIDRA RUNNINGG AT INCREDIBLY HIHG SPEEDS

https://youtu.be/eITSMpNYJRs?si=BodLtByAIcPWhR-8

[obtuse halo]

this is amazing lmaooooo

[mighty warren]

apparently this channel does a lot of sped up entities versus bosses, this one is the only one ill admit i care for though

[vivid spire]

LMAO LOONY TUNES

[proven cloak]

hes actually tweaking

me when the adderall kicks in

[frail sky]

https://x.com/miracide_/status/1837536543461777709

🦇 miracide 𓃵 (@miracide_) on X

i edited my messmer hippo comic to be more topical [elden ring]

Twitter · Sep 21, 2024, 4:57 PM

[onyx trench]

o baby a cleanrot sword on my 3rd kill

at RL11 with an unupgraded LSGS

[dusty kraken]

https://vxtwitter.com/lavelis_twi/status/1836820413151650158

[covert schooner]

Who’s the black haired woman?

[dusty kraken]

Likely their tarnished

[median rock]

that's tanith

sans mask

[obtuse halo]

Yeah, presuming it's a headcanon of Tanith because of the robe

[median rock]

u can tell because she's wearing consort's robe and im pretty sure she has black hair at least if you mod the hat off

(from randomizer runs where she has random armor lol)

[covert schooner]

Also

What do you think: Zorayas wife? Kissable?

[median rock]

i dont know if tanith ever hits that pose though?

lol. thats the sellen thinky pose

[obtuse halo]

Actually nevermind, forget headcanon. That's how she actually looks

[median rock]

ah nice

[covert schooner]

I’ve seen some people treat her more parentally

But I want that snake dammit

[obtuse halo]

She is incredibly cute and I would hug her 😌

[median rock]

im pretty sure tanish is straight up a pretty decent parent to rya

[obtuse halo]

I wouldn't kiss but I'm an outlier, I wouldn't kiss basically anyone

[covert schooner]

[obtuse halo]

kissing is gross. I am given to understand many or most people disagree with me on this matter

[median rock]

she's super nice about rya in all of the dialogue lines and rya seems to love her & look up to her as her adopted mother too

[covert schooner]

Oh ye for sure

But what about her kissability

[median rock]

i cannot see her in any romantic light from her portrayal in elden ring, considering she feels like somebody still figuring their life out

[covert schooner]

Fair

[proven cloak]

yah & yah

I mean maybe less kissable in the snake form. but we persevere

[lilac condor]

So I made about a dozen attempts on the sunflower tonight

Thought it was a pretty long runback

kinda empty

Last try before giving up for the night, I turn around

and there's a grace right outside the boss room

[covert schooner]

Lmao the idea that Melina chooses your level ups for you is funny

[lilac condor]

it's from the elden ring manga

pretty good

[obtuse halo]

"Shall I turn your runes into Strength? Psyche, you need more intelligence."

[gray leaf]

Miquella is just... such a good well-written character in so many ways.

[gray leaf]

Actual story spoilers but ||most FromSoft characters are either the victims of their own hubris, or the victims of someone else's hubris through no fault of their own, or just a victim of ill fortune, and Miquella was totally set up like that was the case, but no! He made a plan, he executed on it, and it more or less worked! If what he's doing truly is impossible, he sure hasn't hit the breaking point yet. And he's also genuinely very morally complicated, because he has a goal that's both empathetically understandable and genuinely just good, and he does horrible stuff to achieve it, but he can't be simply boiled down to "person with good aims actually is evil" or "person tries to do good things and fails and makes everything worse".||

[vivid spire]

Like look at me

||I adored Miquella and thought he could do no wrong. When I went through the dlc i genuinely went from shock to horror because i thought Miquella was the only truly good er demigod that wasn’t ranni or fia and could help everyone. My understanding of them was shattered and it’s amazing||

[gray leaf]

||Yeah, he really looked like he was originally this almost messianic figure who just suffered at the hands of others. An example of that which was too pure to survive the Shattering. And then there were the vague hints about charming people implying he might be sinister... and then, no, it turns out that he's every bit as willing to sacrifice people to his ambitions as everyone else is, and that he's very ambitious and very much in control.||

||But he's not just evil either, because all of his kindness, and goals for a gentler world built out of compassion, seems to be 100% genuine.||

||And, I mean... compare him to Ranni, because both were Empyreans with ambitions beyond even what that title could give them, and both were willing to sacrifice their half-siblings in pursuit of those ambitions. It's just the nature of those ambitions that were very, very different (in some ways).||

[languid tiger]

I do adore how deeply they parallel each other

[gray leaf]

||I think that if you asked Ranni if she was a good person, she'd say no, and if you asked Miquella... I was going to say that he'd say yes, but I'm honestly not sure.||

[covert schooner]

||well now he would. no doubts, not anymore||

[gray leaf]

||Probably, yeah. Though there's an argument that he'd also say that nobody is good, or that his flesh is inherently tainted, and he can't call himself good until he rids himself of it and all that it symbolizes because he's too stained by his mother's sins... hm. It suddenly occurs to me that, by martyring himself to absolve himself of his mother's sins (all while committing plenty of his own) he's still claiming agency over them. More Ranni parallels.||

[proven cloak]

yeah - at the end of it all ||I geniunely can't entirely fault Miquella - nearly all of his decisions are made in response to the state of the world he finds himself in||

||Even one of his cruelest direct acts, condemning Trina to the Coffin Fissure and sealing her there, is understandable when you look at the state of Marika / Radagon, and how their decisions and disagreements over the Elden Ring not only ended their age, but have stagnated the Lands||

[frozen olive]

||Ah but you see, all my enemies are ontologically evil(by decree of god) so i don't need to worry about the complex morality of the situation /j||

||I also cannot entirely fault Miquella for their actions, but inversely i can kill Miquella without a shred of mercy or compassion for what their age represents and what Miquella and PCR represent in opposition to myself. It's a weird situation to be in, having understanding of how someone got to the place they are but also having zero recourse to do anything but fight them for it||

||It's kinda interesting that even outside of gameplay limitations and shit, you as the Tarnished literally only have one way of dealing with Miquella without forsaking your purpose or Miquella forsaking theirs||

||And forsaking your purpose is the one thing neither you or Miquella can afford to do, no matter what||

[proven cloak]

I just think he'd do it worse than me tbh

maybe an age with a god would come around sometime in the future, sure
but the next one? Nah

lets try it without for a bit see what happens

In a way, I feel like it'd almost be a relief to lose to Miquella, compared to 90% of the other lord candidates

At least some things would change, get better - and its not the worst outcome for the Lands Between

[frozen olive]

me personally

i'm simply playing Marikas game

[proven cloak]

oh yeah

[frozen olive]

she told her kids it's kill or be killed and by the gods i am going to kill

[proven cloak]

I'd still rather win

its just like you lose at least the last thing you'll think is "fair enough alright GL I guess"

[frozen olive]

nah

i'm not like that

[proven cloak]

In a series where so many bosses are repesentations of stagnation, or fighting 'merely' to hold onto something

its just refreshing to fight someone whos got plans

[frozen olive]

the only one i would have this reaction for is Godfrey

everyone else, i'm cursing until my dying breath

[proven cloak]

I was actually just thinking why I didn't particularly think it for him when typing that lol

he's very much the past to me, I think

[frozen olive]

he's the only person who treated me with respect

[proven cloak]

couldn't really bring the Lands Between forward

[frozen olive]

so he's the only one i am inclined to treat with respect

[frozen olive]

very fair very reasonable take

but also i like him more than all other options except me and Ranni

[proven cloak]

lol fair

[frozen olive]

i would rather he take it than anyone else

even if other people could do it better, i would still pick him

[proven cloak]

I do wonder like

what the fuck Godfrey would even do, had he become Elden Lord (second term)

I'm not sure Marika is in a state to do much more than statue

and he seemed like a wifeguy through and through

[frozen olive]

yeah

well that and a feral berserker

[fleet bronze]

The Age of Fracture seems pretty accurate for Godfrey too

[frozen olive]

there isn't really anyone left to fight though so idk what he'd end up doing

age of division?

[proven cloak]

Fracture, I think

default non-mending

[fleet bronze]

Yeah you got it

Basically just the world stops falling apart long enough for more great heroes to come about who might actually fix things more permanently, is my impression of it

[frozen olive]

ah yeah

[proven cloak]

its a weirdly hopeful ending, if you're against a single Order imo

the whole focus on the world being 'fractured' kind of implies to me other power blocs rising

nobody has the singular mandate of god

not sure what the cosmological implications of that are though, the Elden Ring is more than just a social symbol

🤷

[frozen olive]

gonna eat the elden ring

put it on a burger instead of onions

[proven cloak]

Onion ring, O, Onion ring...

I doubt you could even imagine it

[frozen olive]

cosmic horror(i have put a fundament of reality on a burger and am eating it)

[proven cloak]

Beast Liver + Golden Sunflower

😋

[proven cloak]

this is what would've happened if Big Boggart didn't lose grace

[frozen olive]

truly

[real shadow]

https://x.com/miracide_/status/1838353569914733020

🦇 miracide 𓃵 (@miracide_) on X

miquella miqscalculates [ elden ring ]

Twitter · Sep 23, 2024, 11:03 PM

[frozen olive]

Lol

[outer flint]

😭

[unreal bloom]

pictured moments before Ranni asks "do u like moon?" and tragedy ensues

[unreal bloom]

this is funny but also inaccurate, he just needs an eyepatch

he still got one

maybe he picked it back up

the fact that all empyreans have one super special eye that represents their deific domain is pretty interesting

[real shadow]

"my eyes" says otherwise.

[unreal bloom]

ingame it just says "I abandon here my eye" iirc

and when you tell Ansbach he's like "yo damn he ditched his eye that's crazy dude"

[real shadow]

I assume we're going off the image here

[unreal bloom]

image is silli

(maybe he picked one up and was like "ok I won't abandon this bit")

[frail sky]

He puts one of them back in and hastily crosses out the "s"

[unreal bloom]

"whew, nailed it"

I wonder what Ranni's empyrean eye looked like

We know what Melina's looks like, we carry it around for most of the game and get a good look at it in one of the endings

we know what marika's looked like too (it's pretty wack)

We can vaguely assume Miquella's looked like Leda's Rune

Malenia's either rotted out or Marika tried to pull a Messmer on her and it didn't take, which would explain why you can find Marika's Soreseal in Malenia's house

and the dubious last empyrean eye is just the frenzied flame (and anyone can share it! yayyyy!)

[lilac condor]

I’m imagining ranni’s eye being like her moon during her ending

A yawning void of a pupil with a silver iris

[unreal bloom]

ooh, sounds pretty

The interesting thing is that magic ability is entirely separate from empyrean divine domains or the fate-warping of the Elden Ring, if you're good at magic you can keep doing it even without your empyrean eye

so Ranni probably had some crazy divine domain like Rot or Love or Death or Snakes or Fire or Gold but she was just like "naw ain't lettin this define me"

and we get pretty much no idea of what it would've been

she went all-in on INT, no incantations allowed

maybe she found out she was the empyrean of something embarrassing and was like "gotta steal the rune of death, I refuse to be the goddess of bad fanfiction"

oh! also, I don't know if anyone else has noticed this yet, but Sellen is a member of the Carian royal family

A disowned and disgraced member, but a member nonetheless

[median rock]

i'm pretty sure that's not true? at minimum that's definitely a leap with no rea lway to disprove it, but is there any evidence at all for sellen being royal?

i think the only things we know are

1. we know she was good at sorcery before she was exiled, from dialogue & from her having some portraits in raya lucaria (but there's also portraits of plenty of other mages there that just aren't npcs)
2. she doesn't like the carian royal family for stifling her (heretical?) research into the current, and tries to take over the academy so she can do so

[unreal bloom]

Iji dialogue after you free the stars

The fate of the Carian royal family is guided by the stars. As is the fate of Lady Ranni, first heir in the Carian royal line.

"Before taking up the banner of General Radahn, [Jerren] was a guest of the Carian royal family. An expert swordsman, to be sure, but ever the eccentric."

"Now the time has come to remind him of an old promise made. With the stars of fate set into motion, a certain sorceress is dispossessed of her immortality... Finally, we can be rid of a longstanding Carian weed..."

[median rock]

i think if you're defining 'carian' to mean 'carian royal family' rather than 'person from caria manor' then sure but i think that's a bit of a stretch. at minimum, if you're defining 'carian' to mean 'carian royal family', we know that's more than large enough (if only by the size/scale of the whole family) that royalty in that sense doesn't mean anything

[unreal bloom]

It's that and the fact that unsealing the stars also affects her fate

[median rock]

thats not a royal family thing, that's just an important person thing

or at least - we know the carian royalty is affected but theres at least some other things affected, ||ymirs|| dlc stuff talks more about how stars choose fates i think

[unreal bloom]

So we actually have word of miyazaki on fate and how it works in the elden ring universe

The Elden Ring controls the physical laws of the universe, for instance, and the rune of death is the physical law that states that all beings are fated to die – Marika ripped it out, and thus those with grace became immortal

The Elden Ring, being a star, controls the fate of everyone it touches, visualized as the guidance of grace and adherence to the current divine order's laws, enshrined in the elden ring

lemme find the quote

[median rock]

i think thats relatively clearly laid out in the description for elden stars + the various stuff about where the elden ring came from

[unreal bloom]

Anyway the relevance

The Carians descend from the Astrologers, the inventors of sorcery who read fate in the stars

[median rock]

but the part that, to the best of my knowledge, isn't defined is "how much does fate control". elden ring is clearly not a predestination setup here, the fate is not 'fixed' in a way where destinies happen as prescribed, theyre fated as things can't happen yet and theyre stuck in limbo. otherwise the shattering etc. wouldn't have happened in the first place

[unreal bloom]

Fate and destiny actually are pretty prominent in the story and lots of things happen in accordance with them

The opening narration is a prophecy, for instance

As is the burning of the erdtree

[median rock]

'caria' in the game both refers to the place where people are from and the royal family itself - like, loretta is most likely not actually carian royalty considering she's their guard, but she is said to be 'of caria'. the astrologers also are the predecessors of all current glintstone sorcerers, but the carian royal family definitely aren't the only descendants, considering there's just straight up not enough of them to be every glintstone sorcerer

[unreal bloom]

You can be a glintstone sorcerer and not be carian

But the carians are the only ones for whom we know fate is guided by the stars

[median rock]

just double checked the actual dialogue - iji doesn't even say "we must get rid of the Carian weed" as a person, iji says "we must get rid of/cleanse the evil from Caria", and the dialogues where he refers to the Carian Royal Family proper are all "the Royal Family of Caria" rather than "Caria" in jp (or at least the 5 i checked real quick)

[unreal bloom]

Neat!!

[median rock]

the specific word is 禍根 which every source i can find seems to generically translate to "root of evil" (which makes sense why the english version says 'weed', "root -> weed")

but the japanese version definitely doesn't seem to ID it as a person at minimum. i think its definitely a reading, but i think it's more likely it's because sellen was known to be really goated with it and also heretical and therefore a threat

since jerren directly talks about sellen being responsibel for killing people? a lot? though i'm not sure if that meant "literally she fucked em up" or "she taugth them bad juju and they died"

[unreal bloom]

She katamari’d ‘em

Something very interesting is that the Tarnished are fateless beings

Their fates were affected by the elden ring’s fatewarping in old times but then the grace was stripped from them, leaving them with no fate but what they make

No fingerslayer blade for us

“Cannot be wielded by those without a fate”

The broad strokes of a prophecy are established - someone will burn the tree, grab the ring, and ascend to lordship, but who does it, how, and what results is left unfixed and unclear

Also did I share my theory in here that the Greater Will is a fantasy representation of dark nebulae

The Greater Will created all that exists, but did so via creating stars in a lightless abyss

This describes the cosmic behavior of dark nebulae, dense shadow-clouds in space where stars form, most famously visible to the naked eye as a great dark rupture in the milky way, the Great Rift

[proven cloak]

turned them into Graven Masses (hence why shes the 'Graven Witch')

probably a little bit of one and a little bit of two

after all, she "wants glintstone sorceries that open our minds, unbound by terrestrial taboos. No matter what we give in return."

[obtuse halo]

We had this convo too, where we looked at the original japanese and it turns out "graven" is just sort of thrown in there by the translation team for vibes. A direct translation was more like "lump/mass witch"

[proven cloak]

It means something similar

Graven means 'sculpted'

both refer to what the Graven Masses / Sorcerer Lumps end up as, and include a word in their names

[obtuse halo]

I've never heard that before! I knew it could refer to Engraving but that's a bit different than sculpting

[proven cloak]

considering Thops says she was 'Accused of unthinkable treatment of certain sorcerers', they probably all weren't consenting

[proven cloak]

I mean I might be a little wrong

idk if sculpted is the right translation

'shaped rock' at least

its not a common word lol

I think its has something to do with how grave is also used for 'serious / heavy' as an adjective

the burial meaning of grave might even come from the earthern association

[proven cloak]

god forbid women do anything 🙄

[unreal bloom]

specifically the japanese term used is katamari

she is the katamari witch rolling people up into the seeds of new stars

she is just a katamari reference and i love that so much

[median rock]

my guess is that she encouraged them to do it, probably convinced people to test things that she knew were dangerous

since she was clearly important enough (see portraits) to have some pull around the academy

[proven cloak]

she loves rolling people into magic orbs

[old brook]

This is probably one of the stranger reactions to eldritch knowledge, usually y'atleast get to be some sort of Scary Monster

[unreal bloom]

Or you get to be the true mother, the only mother

You know something I noticed about Elden Ring is that there are only like 2-3 normal shirts in the entire game including DLC

It’s all robes and armor and dresses and long coats

I demand more shirts

[onyx trench]

I have long been ambivalent on Patches in FromSoft games; I did not realise how fucking baller his armour set looks and as such I've converted to kill-on-sight

[unreal bloom]

Prettiest armor in the game and includes one of the three shirts

[frail sky]

https://x.com/AnYa_orz/status/1838605611937992851

♍️AnYa♍️ (@AnYa_orz) on X

When Miquella charmed Leda.🫵🫶
#ELDENRING #EldenRingFanart #ShadowoftheErdtree #エルデンリング

Twitter · Sep 24, 2024, 3:45 PM

[gray leaf]

I wonder if Queen Marigga is like King Philip.

[proven cloak]

elaborate on what you mean?

I think I have an idea but I'm curious

[gray leaf]

I mostly just meant in terms of the name. It's unusual because Marigga specifically changed her name to match or approximate Marika's as part of some political or diplomatic situation.

[proven cloak]

oh I misread "Queen Marika" mb 💀

[gray leaf]

No, I just randomly remembered Marigga and wondered what was up with her.

[proven cloak]

could be the games way of being cheeky and connecting the giant stone coffins (which look pretty similar to some of the Uhl / Eternal City designs - also covered in glovewort) with Marika / The Numen

does similar stuff with fights like the Fell Twins as stand ins for Mohg / Morgott, or the Crucible Knight / Misbegotten duo at Castle Redmane representing the previous two Elden Lords, both idolized by Radahn

[gray leaf]

...fair!

[proven cloak]

or maybe its something about the cycle of history, and Demihumans dreaming of their own age (is that what the procession of stars is about? 🤷)

Dragons had their time, humans, perhaps giants - whos to say Demihumans wouldn't be next?

or maybe its just a joke idk

[limpid peak]

I need help deciding what to run for an NG+ character, Beast Claws (which I tried and thought were cool but haven't given a full shot) or Cross Naginata (which I've never tried but have wanted to)

oh, or Rapier and Main-gauche

damn

also want to try the smithscript dagger again, which means I'm just giving myself ever-increasing levels of choice paralysis

[limpid peak]

wow

beat Malenia in four attempts with the Smithscript Daggers (Frost infused)

I am crazy proud of that, despite the advantage of DLC gear

[fleet bronze]

Cross Naginata is fantastic and super satisfying. I really wanted to love the beast claws but I ended up feeling like the range, length of animations, and involuntary movement didn't really balance out with how much damage they could do

[limpid peak]

any ash of war you'd recommend? Spectral Lance looks interesting, but otherwise I have no ideas

[median rock]

it takes phantom slash right? that one is a lot of fun

sword dance is fun too but a bit harder to use imo

[fleet bronze]

Repeating thrusts is a classic, as is giant hunt or either of flame spear of flame skewer

[real shadow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S1ELks3b9U

[median rock]

neat. i'm glad zullie took the time to list potential useful reasons for this, because i can imagine the comments from technologically-illiterate people hating on developers for "my added file size!!!" otherwise

[limpid peak]

just tried Phantom Slash, it's cool as fuck

[limpid peak]

beat the game with the naginata, thanks for the advice

[proven cloak]

great photo here

[vivid spire]

https://youtu.be/2NSek3TIhT4?si=8-8VyJPbILYliIYu

[hybrid perch]

||he succeeded right?||

[limpid peak]

||yes||

[proven cloak]

https://old.reddit.com/r/EldenRingLoreTalk/comments/1ft7p8h/charting_the_numen_across_the_lands_betweens/

good effortpost someone made about Numen, mixed with some real world context and screenshots

not too long

and not too speculative

while still bringing in good context and thoughts

[covert schooner]

Do yall know if the Japanese uses the same word God for both Marika and the gods like Taylew

[median rock]

jp text for taylew's spirit ash (last line only) is

そして、鍛冶の守り神になつったのだと
which seems to give me "guardian deity" from 守り神

which google is confirming means "guardian deity" rather than somethign else

i'm checking a cuople things but marika seems to be stuff like "神" aka 'god' (kami) broadly speaking, but without the context of being a guardian

(they both use the same word as god/deity though. but i don't know japanese to confirm if that's actually meaningful)

rememberance of a god & a lord also uses 'kami' on its own (not for marika tho obv)

marika's scarseal (english - "those chosen by gods") is the only other thing i can quickly find that refers to marika as a god & it's also generically un-prefixed 神

(text taken from booting elden ring up w/ a cheat mod to let me grab any item, with my language set to JP lol)

i accidentally hit the button for "unlock all dlc gestures" while fumbling around on my real rl1 save so hopefully that doesn't online ban me LOL (edit: it did not <3)

note: I speak no japanese, all of this was done by using OCR to grab the words that the jp text uses and then using various online dictionaries to double check if those combinations mean anything in particular. i also have no clue about any cultural context behind how japanese refers to deities

[dusty kraken]

https://vxtwitter.com/elden_things/status/1840999762461380761

[proven cloak]

Enia's text about Marika remaining a god: ”だが彼女は、罰せられてなお神であり、幻視の器なのだ”
also seems to use 神 without modification.

and I've heard Placidusaxes remembrance(?) does the same about his missing god

[frozen olive]

Bayonetta-core drawing challenge

[covert schooner]

Okay so it’s not the same thing

Gotcha

I just find it interesting that the land of shadows has so many “gods”

[proven cloak]

there are gods everywhere for those with the elden to ring them.....

Taylew probably fits closer into the same sort of general thing as the tutelary deities, they're both forms of ancestor worship

Marika seems to have centralized godhood with the GO, but even then

there are cults for Godwyn, cults for Malenia, a load of faithful for Miquella in the Haligtree, whatever Rykard's got going on, etc

The Finger Cult(?) that Ymir's High Priest garb is part of + who built the Manus Celes / Metyr, Mohg's blood ritualists, the Fire Monks and Godskins in their worship of their flames

place is lousy with faiths, and I actually really like how cosmologically messy it can get compared to settings that are too solved with what powers are at play

like in irl mythologies theres often way less distinction between fairies and ghosts and spirits and gods than in fantasy fiction

[languid tiger]

there's also the dragon cult

a couple denominations, if you count the dragon communion cult as being to placidusax, florissax, and/or their god

[grave plinth]

Ancestral Followers and also whatever weird dogmatic atheism the Nox Monks have going on

[languid tiger]

the Followers are pretty interesting

considering they've got their like

centralized ancestor spirits

but also seem to practice a more generalized ancestor worship as well

and those seem to be just the most powerful and collected manifestations?

[grave plinth]

and whatever they've carried over from the Uhl and Uld Dynasties

[languid tiger]

ye

[grave plinth]

plus the fawn ancestor spirits

[languid tiger]

wait, those little baby goobers are ancestor spirits too?

i didn't think we knew what was up with them for sure

[grave plinth]

yeah the item description calls them young ancestor spirits

[languid tiger]

huh!

which item?

but that's cool, i guess it means that like

[grave plinth]

Ancestral Infant's Head
Skull of a very young ancestral spirit. Just think how many sproutings It might bear.

[languid tiger]

the souls of the dead Followers either individually or in smaller groups become these fawns?

and then they either mature with age and targeted worship or amass more souls to develop?

[grave plinth]

yeah they might actually be artificial in spite of their druidic vibes

like its some weird offshoot of sorcery

[languid tiger]

it is an int-based practice

i really wish we'd get a second dlc

that delves into some of the int-based esoterica like the stars and the underground zones

followers + nox

[proven cloak]

they already had a lot of crucible connections in base game

and they really match Hornsent cultural practices, with the focus on powerful animalistic spirits

which is interesting

makes you wonder if their 'budding' horn faith + the church of the bud has any connection, and if it had connection to rot even before Romina turned to the Scarlet Rot

I think I'd mark the largest difference between them as the Followers empowering spirits through the sacrifice of living things, while the Hornsent seem more about cultivating themselves to serve as living spirit vessels for existing powerful spirits

(with whatever the Highlanders are doing with killing beasts to invoke their power falling in the same camp)

[proven cloak]

https://x.com/Zlofsky2nd/status/1841964424137212165

ずろ❄️Zlofsky (@Zlofsky2nd) on X

Radagon of the Golden Order
黄金律、ラダゴン
#ELDENRING #エルデンリング

Twitter · Oct 3, 2024, 10:11 PM

yoooo

its Elden Ring

from Elden Ring

and his signature Elden Pants

[onyx trench]

very satisfying to pull off a frontal assault on stormveil with no deaths

[outer flint]

[gentle chasm]

Does, does this mean what I think it means???

Heavy Erdtree Spoilers

Tell me this lore guide ain't true

[glossy delta]

.......what do you think it means?

[proven cloak]

the lore guides aren't written by the games actual writers themselves, or at least the last one wasnt

so in the same way the last one had some wrong assumptions / disproven speculation

this one could just be the people who wrote this books speculation

[proven cloak]

but for what its worth this is pretty much my reading exactly

[proven cloak]

(I think he means ||the idea that Radahn is willing now, or made the vow willingly at some point||. Its what the reddit takes from these paragraphs.)

I don't actually think its any more clear here than in the dlc but tbh I think the dlc already strongly implies ^ with its presentation.

[unreal bloom]

Gods were all over the place before Marika and co started killing them all

Probably meant to be a metaphor for abrahamic religions’ religious totalitarianism and imperialism against polytheism and all other religions

Monotheism obliterating or absorbing polytheistic religions wherever it could

[obtuse halo]

a bit of that plus maybe unironically about the dangers of crop monoculture

[unreal bloom]

A fun twist is that the Fell God seems to have been a Hornsent who achieved godhood like Marika

And then everyone was universally terrified of them

[obtuse halo]

I would love to see a source on this one

or at least what the theory is drawn from

[unreal bloom]

Furnace Visage

[obtuse halo]

Material used for crafting items.

Exceedingly rare to find.

A stone mask surrounded by curled horns,
depicting the fell god of fire that haunts the sagas of the hornsent.``` I don't think I can draw the same conclusion from this

[unreal bloom]

It’s the same Fell God as the one from the base game

[frozen olive]

proof

[obtuse halo]

I understand this. I just don't see the connection to an ascended hornsent.

The hornsent are not the only things with horns

[frozen olive]

many things have horns

[frozen olive]

pretty much everything seems capable of having horns

[unreal bloom]

Decorated with fire giant imagery

[unreal bloom]

it's quite distinctly hornsent

Notably, with tangled horns

[obtuse halo]

I mean, the other thing we know about the Fell God is it was depicted with one terrible eye.

[unreal bloom]

Which is stated to be a symbol of such status that you're exalted in Hornsent civilization

And we know why, now

Empyreans have crazy eyes

Specifically one crazy eye

Every empyrean does

Notably, the tangled horns surrounding the furnace visage are shown in the appearance of the fell god proper

[obtuse halo]

This also needs a citation.

[unreal bloom]

I can hardly believe it, he's divested himself of his very eye… Tender Miquella's eye is no mere morsel of flesh. It is a vessel of soaring grace. Proof of his Empyrean lineage. I wonder, does Miquella the Kind intend to sever his very birthright? His fate as a child of the Erdtree?

[obtuse halo]

Malenia doesn't appear to have eyes at all, and Miquella has two eyes that don't look different from one another.

[unreal bloom]

Yeah because he ditched it

[obtuse halo]

All eyes are vessels of grace. Grace collects in the eyes.

[unreal bloom]

Yes, but Empyreans get one crazy eye each

[obtuse halo]

We also never see Marika's eyes at all

[unreal bloom]

Yeah but we know what they look like and they're crazy

[obtuse halo]

Do we?

[unreal bloom]

Yeah, Marika's Rune

[obtuse halo]

I guess. That's a lot of suppositions. It's interesting, but I'm not making this my new headcanon.

[unreal bloom]

Golden remnants of the grace personally bestowed by Queen Marika to the heroes who joined the crusade for her.

Use to gain 80000 runes.

The brilliance of Queen Marika's grace blinds even the very best.

It's also shown in her scar/soreseals

[obtuse halo]

Yeah, I'm aware of those.

[unreal bloom]

The Beast Eye would likely be the empyrean eye torn out of the GEQ's head, still resonating with Death

[obtuse halo]

There's certainly plenty of eye imagery. Absolutely none of this demands that every empyrean has one super eye to a degree that demonstrates that the Fell God must be an Empyrean.

Much less a specifically hornsent one

[unreal bloom]

They're a Hornsent, and are depicted directly as such

[obtuse halo]

the furnace visage is a depiction by the hornsent's enemies meant to mock them.

[unreal bloom]

Every empyrean is shown to have one, or to be eyeless

[obtuse halo]

The information about the fell god is sparse enough that it could be true, but I really don't think this holds water

[real shadow]

Finding definitive proof that the Fell God is a Hornsent runs into the same issue that finding definitive proof of anything in Elden Ring does: there isn't much at all.

[obtuse halo]

sure but this is like four layers of syllogism deep

[unreal bloom]

I think it's quite clear that 1. the Fell God is depicted as being a Hornsent, 2. this Fell God is the same one that the fire giants worshipped as shown in the Fire Giant imagery alongside the Fell God's depiction, 3. The Fell God is stated to have one crazy eye, 4. Empyreans/god-potentials have one crazy eye, 5. There were Old Gods of the Hornsent, 6. The Hornsent had a tower that allows people to ascend to godhood, and had many gods during their time, 7. The Fell God is described as a god that haunted the Hornsent

[frozen olive]

Proof of anything, in a from game? crazy

[unreal bloom]

Also, the Fell God's sacred seal has a spiral attached to it

[obtuse halo]

Everything has spirals attached to it. The erdtree imagery has spirals attached to it

The One-Eyed shield also depicts the Fell God without any hint of horns, but perhaps with a beard.

[unreal bloom]

The Fell God is hardly human anymore

[frozen olive]

watching Gigguks vod of his first time playing Elden Ring

[unreal bloom]

Godhood comes in many freaky shapes in the Elden Ring universe

[frozen olive]

he literally fought the Tree Sentinel for 5 hours

and he killed it

absolutely mad

[unreal bloom]

still wild that Woolie oneshot Gaius and then died twice to the Albinauric in the shack

[frozen olive]

lmao

4 hours, 56 minutes and 54 seconds, he had almost no hp left and no flasks

insane to start the game off by killing Tree Sentinel at SL1

[unreal bloom]

Actually, it would seem that the Fell God literally became fire

Releases a ball of raging fire said to be inhabited by a fell god. The fireball floats toward enemies and explodes, setting the area ablaze.

[frozen olive]

he spent 5 out of the 7 hours of the stream just fighting Tree Sentinel 😭

[obtuse halo]

My initial read on the furnace visage was that the horns were splayed out the way they were to represent licking flames, like how the Sun is sometimes drawn

(and also to further torment the hornsent, of course)

like a heraldic sun

[unreal bloom]

A crown of tangled horns depicts divinity and primacy in Hornsent society

It's why they wear hats of it

A Hornsent with that level of crazy horns going on is viewed as a 'denizen of paradise' and you only really see hornsent with that crazy amount of horns in the Tower proper or from the Tower proper

It's likely a reference to the Horned Gods of old pagan faith that were brutally suppressed by monotheistic religions; some of those monotheistic faiths even originated within polytheistic religions that gradually demonized and un-deified Horned Gods from their pantheons until there was one single monolithic divinity

Notably, a ruinous god of fire is an inevitable outcome of the divine order of the Hornsent's Elden Ring, similar to what Those Who Live In Death are to the Golden Order

Fire is part of the Crucible of Life, after all, and so fire gods are an inevitable outcome of divine ascension via the Crucible

Just as Marika's divine order built on divine immortality inevitably led to divinely-touched corpses eternally rising from their graves as mindless skeletons

[unreal bloom]

https://tenor.com/view/super-mario-bros-nintendo-smb3-super-mario-all-stars-allstars-gif-18466363

legends speak of a tanuki plumber who killed the fell god of fire

I do think the horns are quite important though, and the fact that the Fell God specifically haunts the sagas of the Hornsent

also probably the coolest pot design

or hottest, rather

[dusty kraken]

The Hornsent seems to be the Fir Bolg in the Book of Invasions, with the Fire Giants as the Fomorians.

The Tuatha De Dannan crushed the Fir Bolg nations and destroyed the Fomorians on the field of battle.

[unreal bloom]

Fits with Marika being of a faerie folk

a more spiritual and nature-connected group of long-lived people

[frozen olive]

more meld-y too

[unreal bloom]

silly putty people

[dusty kraken]

It also sorta fits with the talk of there being no 'good people' here. The Book of Invasions is, mostly, not a tale of Good vs Evil.

It's about people invading and taking over each other but in most cases there isn't a 'good' side, just people in conflict.

Everyone Needs A Home and everyone else is unwilling to give it to them.

[unreal bloom]

Oh, some fun speculation about the Curse of Despair, the Omen/Abominable Children, and the Land of Shadow

In the lands between, omen horns are associated with your soul not going to the Erdtree after death, but instead going somewhere else

Notably, all the remembrances in the Land of Shadow are hewn into the Scadutree, not the Erdtree

The Blessing of Despair gives the curse of the omen/abominable children to all people everywhere, meaning that their souls presumably return to the Scadutree after death, not the Erdtree

And, notably, the act of killing Mohg is what lets you, and Miquella specifically, access the land of shadow - Ansbach outright states that Miquella used Mohg to access the land of shadow

He watched Mohg's soul travel to the land of shadow, and being a soul himself, followed the path

This would also make the people of the Erdtree rejoicing at the eventual death of the Scadutree a lot more grim - they're worshipping the idea that one day, there will be no more souls left to feed to the tree, because everyone viewed as impure will be dead

This also would explain why we find Miquella's Great Rune where we do - he arrived at the Land of Shadow through the tree, and then made his way southwest to the tower

We're following his footsteps, yes - in reverse order.

Ah, but that last bit might be off – I think we do have him state where he abandoned the first of his body, then the last

[lilac condor]

That makes more thematic sense than my idea

which is that he just had Mohg blood-teleport him into one of the bloodfiend's pools of blood

[frozen olive]

that is really funny though

[unreal bloom]

Also, pretty sure the Fell God of Fire became the Flame of Ruin, which is honestly a pretty solid play given that the fire never goes out

You can also summon the flame through worship of the Fell God, and exposure to the flame gradually causes you to become obsessed with it and start to worship the Fell God yourself

[signal harness]

I thought the Flame of Ruin predated the Fell God's death?

[unreal bloom]

The Fell God never died

it lives still

[signal harness]

Expulsion is more accurate I suppose

[unreal bloom]

It's stated to inhabit the flame

[signal harness]

Since I think the Fell God is looking at you in the phase 2 fire giant fight

[unreal bloom]

Yeh, the Fire Giants were cursed by the Fell God, and were also its worshippers

Notably, however, the Fell God is not an Outer God

[signal harness]

Oh, that's news to me

[unreal bloom]

Nowhere in the game is it referred to as such

[signal harness]

That seems like a reasonable inference then

[grave plinth]

What even qualifies as an Outer God is pretty ambiguous

The designation seems at least partially political

Though not entirely so

[unreal bloom]

Once worshipped by the giants, this evil deity is believed to have been slain by Queen Marika.

The Fire Giant is a survivor of the War against the Giants. Upon realizing the flames of their forge would never die, Queen Marika marked him with a curse. "O trifling giant, mayest thou tend thy flame for eternity."

Releases a ball of raging fire said to be *inhabited by a fell god. *The fireball floats toward enemies and explodes, setting the area ablaze. Arghanthy, the chief guardian of the Flame, had kept this incantation a well-kept secret until it was stolen by Adan. The fell god still lurks within the Fire Giants.

[signal harness]

I think its literally just "from out of the world" personally

[unreal bloom]

The truth is that Fire originates in the same place as the Erdtree; Fire is an aspect of the Crucible, derived from the Elden Ring, and the Fell God is a similar deity to Marika, one that used divinity to achieve immortality, just through a different method

[unreal bloom]

My working theory is that Outer Gods are based in distortions or alternative paths of divinity found in the Crucible/Elden Ring

afaik we only see one Outer God in the game proper and it's a weirdo

[grave plinth]

Yeah but do you count the Elden Beast/Greater Will as such?

[signal harness]

I would count the Greater Will yeah

[unreal bloom]

The Three Fingers are described as a god and their influence can be warded off with needles

[signal harness]

I don't know if the Elden Beast is a god

[grave plinth]

Despite the Golden Order generally not regarding it as such

[unreal bloom]

But the Three Fingers are just the mouthpiece for the Frenzied Flame, which, like the Greater Will, is operating on a different level altogether

[signal harness]

Or like, some kind of angel

[unreal bloom]

The Greater Will is the cosmos itself, the unseen will that created the stars and through them all that exists
The Frenzied Flame is oblivion, the only entity which seems to operate on the same level and through the same methods as the Greater Will

[grave plinth]

Destined Death is described as an Outer God yet its indicated that Death has been around for a long long time, especially with the Crucible connection

[unreal bloom]

Destined Death isn't an Outer God, it's a rune torn from the Elden Ring

Specifically the rune of fated death

[grave plinth]

Well, the Outer God of the Twinbird

[unreal bloom]

yeh

[grave plinth]

Which is has something to do with destined death

[unreal bloom]

Interestingly every outer god seems to be an expression of the Crucible / Elden Ring

which is wonky

Fire, blood, rot, and death are all expressions of outer gods but are also concepts integral to the Crucible and the Elden Ring of the previous Order - the spiral of life and death was the foundation of the Hornsent's era and the central rune of the Elden Ring, for instance

The Formless Mother first arose from the blood of a Crucible-blessed god, worshipped by desperate people who'd lost everything

The Scarlet Rot's first known appearance was to Romina, a priestess of a Crucible bud who worshipped the rot out of desperation for regrowth

but yeah idk what outer gods are really

they're weirdo divinities

The only real hint we have as to their natures is that the formless mother may in fact be a star made out of burning blood, but ??? we have like no info on the Blood Star

[proven cloak]

(imo, this is symbolic of how gods give up their search for meaning in order to serve as an idol for others)

(which is also why, of Malenia + Miquella + Marika + Ranni, only the last keeps her eyes prominently part-open)

[proven cloak]

this is one of the biggest reasons I lean away from the "out of the world" definition

the confirmed outer gods are very earthly, birds and flowers and blood.

except like you mention, maybe the blood star

the one* that shares the most cosmic imagery is also the one mirroring the GW's own cosmic aesthetics

(*if the frenzied flame is one, through its black hole / supernova stuff)

[unreal bloom]

yeh the Frenzied Flame is something on a similar level to the GW imo

[proven cloak]

I don't count the GW as an Outer God, but its more for the vibes people gesture towards when they use the label than any hard cosmological statement - I wouldn't consider the GW an alien force, given that its the origin of life.

[proven cloak]

I see it as something not as large in scope, but made of its divinity 'gone wrong'

but thats just how I see the Outer Gods in general post dlc

still enough to burn the world at least, and probably more

[unreal bloom]

According to the Three Fingers, all divinity comes from the Greater Will, because everything does... except, maybe, the Frenzied Flame itself, which violates the laws of the Greater Will and life itself

[proven cloak]

its also like how
literally Metyr is an alien, because its a space creature from beyond the stars

but also its been in the lands between long enough that I don't even think its that alien

it 100% predates all glintstone, Farum Azula, the old gods meteoric weapons, almost certainly the divine towers...

[unreal bloom]

It probably doesn't predate glintstone, but all the rest yeah

It's one of the one-two panspermia punch of Metyr and Elden Beast

[proven cloak]

glintstones pretty young, if it was made after the fire giants moved to the mountaintops