Elden Ring (DLC hype room)

[median rock]

so idk it's fucking weird but true lol

see fextra comments on the dude for more info i guess

[left willow]

Huh, I guess it is right, and Meteorite Storm or w/e did more damage than I thought

[median rock]

meteorite storm n stars of ruin both deal insane damage if u make them stand in one spot

admittedly probably meteorite of astel more than stars of ruin but thats also super fp hungry compared so idk

moa is one of my fave spells its so fun to use on stance breaks to delete things

[left willow]

Yeah, MOA does a lot of damage if all of them hit

which they do against megabig people

[median rock]

plus, way more importantly

it looks sick as fuck

[stone cove]

https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin Streamiung more of the dlc

[median rock]

if nobody got me... i know anatasia, tarnished eater, got me

most dependable mf in the lands between

[left willow]

she can eat my tarnished
whaps self over head

[frozen olive]

SOTE boss themes absolutely bangin

[stone cove]

Huh.

So if you're invading as a red and the host kills a world boss

you get sent hiome becaues the host completed their objective?

Did not know that

i'm highly amused and only slightly ocnfused

[vivid spire]

I think I’ll try to get the nox flowing sword

[median rock]

I mean, it's a pretty quick weapon to get lol

[vivid spire]

Yeah it is

Gonna smack rennala and do a bit of grinding first

[left willow]

I'm BATMAN

[real shadow]

https://vxtwitter.com/ManusCeles/status/1818864979283464195

[vivid spire]

Yes

[left willow]

I have discovered curse blades' weakness:

Stars of Ruin. Like every other everything in this game

[vivid spire]

Lmao

[left willow]

Surprisingly, conjuring the past astrologies of many futures and then hitting someone with them is very effective

[vivid spire]

Wait

Is erdsteel dagger pretty good for a dex build?

[median rock]

it's much better for faith iirc

[vivid spire]

I just gotta get used to the reach

[grave plinth]

i should really use that more often. I was at the Consecrated Snowfield by the time i was able to cast it and most things there resist it

[vivid spire]

The urge to transition to full caster

[warped quest]

if you just go back t ofull caster your not gonna get better at melee

[vivid spire]

Yeah true

[warped quest]

find a weapon you like the moveset and feel of

unqiue weapons with a unique art can be nice but ones you can change the art on are also good because of versatility

[paper badge]

first time I ever heard the word 'Duende' was in a youtube video about a weird indie game featuring fey creatures like a month or two ago

[atomic marsh]

First time I did was Joel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_khWy7GAcQ

[proven cloak]

me when see astel

[steel scroll]

als a big fan of LA DUENDE JAPONES
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcmV4RvlKpY

[vivid spire]

Thinking about how the only people in the eternal cities seem to be monks

All the citizens are gone or petrified

Lends credence to the cities being transported from the snowfields

[kind garden]

pretty sure the citizens were sacrificed in the attempt to create a Lord of Night

[vivid spire]

Given the terrain on the outskirts having the same plants as the snowfield

[vivid spire]

Yeah probably

[mighty warren]

i present to you
my dumbest idea yet

[lilac condor]

It’s got that elden bling though. Ain’t dumb if it looks cool

[mighty warren]

Shockingly fun, but i like having my incantations on hand too much to stick to it

[vivid spire]

Me too..

I am warming up to spears though

Are there any halberds that have sweeping attacks?

Other than the swordspear

[atomic plinth]

Oh dear god in heaven I got summoned to fight Rykard

And I left my Serpent Hunter at home

That was not fun, good god

[vivid spire]

Edit

I’ll try the Lucerne

[lilac condor]

I’ve been running a cold claymans spear with repeating thrusts for my first playthrough. The instant frozen proc is delicious

[vivid spire]

Unsure if it has a sweeping attack the wiki isn’t too sure

Also if I’m two handing a polearm could I have a sidearm or shield

[mellow silo]

Lucerne is good, it's very cool

[vivid spire]

Squirepilled Realismaxxing

[warped quest]

i don't think it has a sweep which is honestly why i like it

i dislike spinning sweep attacks

they are just to oslow

[vivid spire]

Yeah they do seem slow

[warped quest]

you can also just swap the art to something that covers sweeping

[vivid spire]

Naginata is weird

It’s got a fast sweep

[warped quest]

thats because its a slashing spear with a unique moveset

[vivid spire]

I could do it one handed?

But it’s rather awkward

[warped quest]

i don't recomend onehanding a lot of twohanded weapons

greatswords and spears are fine a lot of the time to do

but a lot of weapon arts have good aoe range on them

like storm assault

[vivid spire]

Yeah

[atomic plinth]

Do Exalted Flesh and Boiled Crab stack?

[warped quest]

no

[mighty warren]

I one hand my greataxe but thats just cause its the same moveset either way

[vivid spire]

Is the handaxe any good

[stoic sleet]

"hey did you pick up the death knight twin axes?"
"uhhhhhh... sorta?"

[warped quest]

i like the hand axe

[stoic sleet]

Short reach but fast attack speed, from what I understand?

[warped quest]

yeah

[vivid spire]

I will note

I adore the twin axes

But the fact that the dex scaling is inferior to str scaling is uh

[warped quest]

yeah they are one of those wierd lighting scales off faith weapons

[atomic marsh]

who the fuck summons for Rykard

[stoic sleet]

Some people do!

This is why I keep serpent-hunter in my inventory

[frail sky]

Not anymore, now the lightning scales off of dex 😵‍💫

Long hafted is still faith though, thank god

[warped quest]

they should change it that every hour it swaps what it scalse off of

[vivid spire]

LUCERNE IS FUN

I love the sweep attack

[vivid spire]

Noooo

[frail sky]

Honestly the twin axes could use a buff, their damage is pretty meh

And also they’re twin axes

[vivid spire]

Is that bad

[stoic sleet]

The dual axe moveset is not the best

Generally speaking dual movesets that hit simultaneously instead of sequentially are preferred

[frail sky]

The moveset is also pretty slow 😔

[stoic sleet]

The ash is pretty good on the DK twin axes though

More of a chasedown option than the longhaft version

[frail sky]

Yeh

[stoic sleet]

I still prefer the longhaft but that's because 1) I'm a 2h Str build and 2) it has the exact same moveset as the axe that I spent like 80 hours getting used to in the base game

[vivid spire]

This was hard

[frail sky]

That’s not a lot of health

[stoic sleet]

The most important hit point is the last one

Which invader was this?

[vivid spire]

Vyke

[vivid spire]

Up to 30 dex and vigor now

Thanks to bird farm

We’re in business finally

Blackflame blade yipeee

[obtuse halo]

if you're on dex/faith (and it looks like you are), Vyke's spear is worth checking out too

absolutely nuts weapon

[frozen olive]

love that weapon

[atomic plinth]

Vyke's Spear is a fucking monstrous weapon

Shame it's a spear

[obtuse halo]

I like spears 😦

spear is one of my go-to comfortable movesets alongside claymore

[atomic plinth]

Valid

I just don't like the moveset of "Poke. Poke. Poke. Poke."

[proven cloak]

using them drops my skill at the game by at least 70%

I just can't get the hang of them

[frail sky]

Even in pve?

[obtuse halo]

yes

though it's disgusting in pvp of course

still a solid weapon against regular enemies

[vivid spire]

It’s fun ngl it’s a little slow

But I love the ash

So far though

Lucerne with storm stomp

That’s fun

[obtuse halo]

Lucerne is a cool underappreciated weapon

[atomic plinth]

Unfortunately, it suffers from the condition of being an ordinary looking weapon in a game filled with fantastical weapons

[languid tiger]

but it looks so much cooler than most of the fantastical weapons

because it like

looks like it functions

[warped quest]

i recomend storm assault quite a bit

its a good ash

[atomic plinth]

Yeah but why use the plain and boring hammer on a stick when you can flick people with a fucking disembodied finger I guess

...god that weapon is fucking hysterical

[obtuse halo]

It's okay. I'll take all the ordinary-looking weapons

My aesthetic tends toward the less outlandish

[vivid spire]

I’m gonna put flame arts on it

[obtuse halo]

tbh favoring less-outlandish-weapons is a major reason I've never really done a colossal weapons build

there's nothing wrong with them and they're quite powerful, I just always feel silly carting something like the fallenstar beast jaw around

the guts greatsword works for me because it's the guts greatsword mostly

[stoic sleet]

I like beeg weapon for fighting beeg monster

[obtuse halo]

Zwei is also styling

[stoic sleet]

Same as in MonHun

Zwei is pretty great it's true

[obtuse halo]

but really those are the two ultras/colossals I feel not-silly carrying around

😛

[stoic sleet]

I want to do a zwei run in DS1

I think it'll go well with the warrior armor set

[obtuse halo]

just pair it with most of the giant set and a pinwheel mask, a build absolutely nobody has done before

honestly there are way too many weapon types I still haven't really tried

curved greatswords, greataxes, hammers, reapers, whips, crossbows and the cannon, and of course most of the new stuff from the DLC since my playthroughs of it have been as an essentially pure caster and bow-only

[vivid spire]

I have news

I CAN fight in melee

I was gonna switch out my attire but tbh

I really like the starter knight set!

It’s growing on me and I didn’t expect it to

[atomic plinth]

It's nice, yeah

[vivid spire]

I’ll probably do Carian knight if it has magic resistance

[atomic plinth]

Can't beat a nice plain suit of armor

[atomic plinth]

If you do, pair it with the unaltered banished knight helm

Goes with it surprisingly well, was my drip of choice for ages

[vivid spire]

Ok!

I did some page farming but like

They don’t drop stuff at all lmao

[atomic plinth]

What were you going for?

[vivid spire]

The blouse and trousers

But probably full set

[atomic plinth]

I've got the hood, pants, and shirt if you want em

I ain't wearin em

[vivid spire]

Console player

[atomic plinth]

Piss

[vivid spire]

Yeah

[modest berry]

ill see if i have them later? i farmed them for the red branch bow so i might. are you on xbox? im not sure if theres crossplay

between it and PS i mean

[stoic sleet]

My drip for nearly the entire playthrough has been the altered vagabond set + marionette helm

It's a great look

Very scrungly, as a Soulsborne character should be

[vivid spire]

I am on Xbox

[vivid spire]

Altered?

[modest berry]

piss

[stoic sleet]

Yeah, you can unlock the ability to alter certain armor pieces at a grace. It mostly removes capes and such

[modest berry]

the boc questline

[vivid spire]

Oh yeah ik

[obtuse halo]

The basic no frills Knight Set is some really underrated drip

[vivid spire]

I literally never found the mountaintops merchant

Also I noticed spinning it changes the animation to be more forceful without FP, just like a real halberd spin!

[obtuse halo]

It looks good, hits 51 poise, and it's an understated sort of good look with flat colors that matches well with lots of other things

like, Carian Knight set is similar but tends to look weird when paired with things that aren't similarly greebled with extra decorative elements

but knight set is clean metal with flat, pleasant blue cloth decorations

[vivid spire]

What do we think

[atomic plinth]

Purdy slick

[vivid spire]

Oh my god

I went back to the murkwater catacombs

And beat the SHIT out of the boss with the storm spinny

I’m so pleased rn

[limpid peak]

nice work

[vivid spire]

I laughed so hard I almost got killed

[stoic sleet]

Stormcaller good

[grave plinth]

Wooo got the unaltered banished knight chest piece

[vivid spire]

It’s so fucking fun

I like to think Ranni thinks my tarnished is cute because of their brain and also spinny halberd

Also I realized something Radhan isn’t as bad as I thought he’s pretty chill ngl

Took in people from all walks of life to incorporate into the Redmanes

I always thought Malenia was in the right but.. not really

She was used by Miquella to further his aims

And the aeonia was the end result

From now on I’m only gonna simp for uhh

Wait Ranni caused stuff too though

[spring marlin]

The Noble Goldmask

[frozen olive]

The Ever Brilliant Gold Mask is good

[spring marlin]

says nothing, removes the gods from the golden order, t poses, dies

[vivid spire]

I’ve gotten age of stars a total of five times

No other ending

[frozen olive]

Ranni is based

[vivid spire]

Ranni is based

Like the dlc even made me view messmer and Marika in a sympathetic light

Noo my preconceived notions

Where did they go

[spring marlin]

ranni based more

[grave plinth]

Simp for Godwyn, our perfect Christlike figure who died for out sins

[spring marlin]

goldmask ending is the same but keeping the order that kept us in this whole mess to begin with

[frozen olive]

nothing to simp for with him

Godwyn is gone gone

[vivid spire]

I’m sorry I’m not bi

My options are limited

[grave plinth]

Exactly that means you can project your ideal qualities onto his unliving corpus

[vivid spire]

Ooh I could simp for… leda

Nah I have standards leda is cringe

[grave plinth]

Or Fia you could simp for Fia

[vivid spire]

Tiche maybe

[vivid spire]

Fia is scary… but hugs…

[spring marlin]

no one really has a solution for the godwyn & godwyn & godwyn & godwyn scenario, so the lands between will eventually have to live in death with it someday

[vivid spire]

As a chivalrous knight I am going to save the world first and get married later

[spring marlin]

Seluvis

[vivid spire]

I have PRIORITIES!

[vivid spire]

I always thought the death ending was kinda ambiguous

[grave plinth]

Honestly the DLC made me view Marika even worse cuz of how banal her motivations turned out to be

[frozen olive]

Seluvis is pretty much just awful

[frozen olive]

???

[vivid spire]

I’m still not sure what the death ending means for the lands between as a whole

[vivid spire]

“Entire population removed” is not banal

[grave plinth]

Motivations, not outcome

[frozen olive]

Wanting revenge for genocide is not banal imo

[vivid spire]

Also uh

Is the death ending meant to be so ambiguous or something

I assumed a thing like deathblight was not very good

I know godwyns death interrupted the cycle

[grave plinth]

Marika founded a cosmic empire that broke reality over its knee for the explicit purpose of genociding the Hornsent

[frozen olive]

Yeah

[grave plinth]

It is 110% overkill

[vivid spire]

She’s not good

But her motivations are understandable ngl

The jars and shit wasn’t isolated it happened all over the Land of Shadow

We have gaols all over the map for that

[obtuse halo]

I would describe her motivations as human, but probably not as banal lol

[grave plinth]

And to top it off she didn't even wanna take the blame for it

She made Messmer the focus of all their ire

[frozen olive]

Banal is just not the word for it imo

It's an extremely comprehensible motivation imo

Revenge and perpetuating the cycle of violence is extremely human

[grave plinth]

Yeah it is

[frozen olive]

And yeah she absolutely fucking sucks

But wanting revenge is frankly the one thing i understand out of her actions

[grave plinth]

But it's like, Marika went on this colossal endeavor that snared up thousands of people for what is ultimately a very small minded goal

Because Marika's empire is everything the Hornsent are but worse

[frozen olive]

If i was in her shoes i would absolutely have gone for bloody vengeance

[grave plinth]

Which gives off the impression that her problem was less their methods and more that it happened to her

[spring marlin]

ultimately i think the whole hornsent thing got lost in the sauce with everything else the golden order and the fingers were up to

[frozen olive]

That's the whole point ain't it? Perpetuating the cycle

[spring marlin]

it was one part of a thing that sort of got hijacked by them? if that makes any sense

[frozen olive]

The Hornsent is going after Messmer for a reason

[obtuse halo]

Marika did destroy it herself though, which I find interesting - her motivations in doing that remain somewhat mysterious (textually, there's no end of theories) but at the end of the day she chose to break what she'd built.

[spring marlin]

my read was that marika got what she wanted but realized her goals were being used by the greater will for all sorts of things, and decided to nuke the ring

[grave plinth]

Like, base game Marika was an asshole but it came off as sort of... deific in a way. Big uncaring goddess who has no care for the ants

[spring marlin]

well

[grave plinth]

Like Miquella is

[obtuse halo]

Larger-than-life, definitely

[spring marlin]

dunno how much of it was the greater will, it likely left everyone on read way before marika came

[vivid spire]

Also about deathblight and stuff

Does Fia’s ending like

Fix that?

[grave plinth]

Like biggest character flaw in the dlc that she didn't even seem to have the guts to own up to it

[vivid spire]

I know D says those who live in death are unnatural as is deathblight

But stuff like the Ghostflame and Gravebirds note different cultural ways of dealing with death and spirits

[grave plinth]

The Land of Shadow is gone, it's hidden because apparently this is the one genocide that Marika isn't advertising front and center

[vivid spire]

And specifically, guiding them away from the living to not harm them or cause corruption

[frozen olive]

Fias ending does not fix deathblight i don't think

Because as i understand it, it codifies those who live in death into the Elden Ring

Thus making them an unnatural part of the natural order

[vivid spire]

Hmm

I’m not sure if that’s good or bad

[frozen olive]

It's pretty nebulous

[grave plinth]

Yeah as far as I can tell it will just make Holy not super effective on Undead

[vivid spire]

But the undead are already kinda malevolent ngl

If they were nice they wouldn’t attack me on sight

[grave plinth]

Like there's some ancient burial culture referenced in fragments that the Golden Order suppressed when it sealed Death but it's not certain Fia will restore it

[grave plinth]

I mean you are trespassing

[spring marlin]

in fairness 98% of all beings attack you on sight

i would have loved to converse with a friendly skeleton though

[atomic plinth]

Ditto

Lend more credence that Those Who Live In Death just want to be left the fuck alone

[signal harness]

Tons of living people in ER attack on sight tbf

[atomic plinth]

Tbh I wish we got more non-human NPCs

Adula would've made a great NPC, I dunno what he would do but he's allied to Ranni and he's clearly intelligent enough to form knightly oaths

A skelebones merchant would've been great

[spring marlin]

put a pope hat on a dragon n' call it a day

we all love miriel

[atomic plinth]

God bless Miriel

[spring marlin]

greyoll could have also been quite the passive interactor had she not also been the immediate target for a fresh file with a bleed weapon

[vivid spire]

Idk I really dunno

[atomic plinth]

Greyoll would've been SO cool as a dragon-themed covenant

God I miss covenants

[vivid spire]

I wanna trust fia.. she’s nice to me

Also D is cool but a little too fanatic

[spring marlin]

we had just crumbs of it with florissax in the dlc, but alas... still no covenant...

[grave plinth]

D’s armor and supernatural twin thing is way too cool for what he ultimately is

[signal harness]

I think Fia is basically good

[atomic plinth]

I can't stand D myself, he has the vibes of a guy who's so utterly convinced he's perfectly right all the time that any evidence to the contrary sends him into a fit

[grave plinth]

Like D’s basically kind of a stooge?

[spring marlin]

i wonder actually

do the "anti-dragon" weapons deal more damage to the dragon transformation

[grave plinth]

Like he’s not like the other Golden Order Fundamentalists we meet

[spring marlin]

dragon form is naked with 10% damage resistance so i don't think it needs the hate but given the lore that might be a thing

[grave plinth]

He and his twin are just dogmatic killsticks who the Golden Order on a whim decided to not kill despite being aberrations

Because that psychic twin thing is not kosher for most GO adherents

He’s this unique transgressive being and instead of doing anything with that he decides his life goal is to be the boot for the man

[spring marlin]

it might have ties to the gargoyles and their twinned thing? though that's a bit of a stretch

[atomic plinth]

I don't think the gargoyles have any real connection

They were probably just watchdogs for the Erdree Roots

[grave plinth]

Gargoyles seem to be like an uber late generation version of what we get with the Jars

[atomic plinth]

...speaking of, why doesn't the burning of the Erdtree affect Those Who Live In Death? You'd think Godwyn would take a helluva hit

[grave plinth]

They’re the corpses of heroes smooshed together with the goal of creating a holy being

[spring marlin]

not all that much seems to be affected by the burning of the erdtree, though that's probably a gameplay concession

[kind garden]

I mean, it's kind of implied that burning the Erdtree will, in the long run, kill Godwyn permanently

[spring marlin]

big tree, might just be an indeterminate time before that results in anything

[kind garden]

with Death unbound he can die for real

[grave plinth]

Well Godwyn doesn’t really seem to be bound by conventional spacetime anymore

[atomic plinth]

That's true, the canopy alone is the size of a continent

[grave plinth]

He has roots in Farum Azula and the Land of Shadow

[atomic plinth]

...side note, I wish we'd gone straight into the canopy of the Erdtree for the final boss

[languid tiger]

for basegame?

yeah, that'd be fucking rad

[atomic plinth]

Aye

For Radagon at least

[spring marlin]

haligtree canopy was a miserable experience, i wouldn't wish that on myself

[atomic plinth]

No, like

I wish the arena was up in the canopy

[spring marlin]

but i'll admit that it would be cool

[languid tiger]

just resting somewhere in the canopy, yeah

[atomic plinth]

Yeah, yeah

[vivid spire]

I do too! I’m just worried about the aftermath of unleashing death melded with life ngl

Also when Nepheli says “a waking nightmare made by men” does she mean it figuratively?

[kind garden]

she means that Gideon had his men commit a fucking goddamn atrocity

[vivid spire]

Ohh ok

Yeah I figured ngl

Maybe the mending rune of death isn’t too bad

Idk I just

It’s too vague and I have a nervous feeling about it

[kind garden]

I mean, we have no solid knowledge of what it does

[grave plinth]

There’s a reason why its basically an instagram filter

[kind garden]

if you ask me, I personally think it encodes undeath into Order, making it a state that is intended for people to reach after death instead of a corruption of the rules

[vivid spire]

I like the idea of people being able to reincarnate and be happy ngl

Fia’s not dead she’s just waiting for you

Wherever that is

Maybe it’s intended to be less concrete

Like the transient nature of what we think souls are

We don’t know what happens after death

[frozen olive]

That's already a thing

[spring marlin]

the mended ring says "if your gravestone doesnt say rest in peace you're drafted into the skeleton war"

[frozen olive]

Golden Order literally reincarnates people

With their burial rites and sending sould to the roots of the erdtree

[vivid spire]

Oh yeah

[frozen olive]

Those who live in death are not a natural part of the cycle of life and death

[vivid spire]

So this would allow the undead to be a natural part of the cycle

[frozen olive]

As i understand it, yes

It would codify them into the Elden Ring

[vivid spire]

That doesn’t seem too bad

[grave plinth]

I mean the undead beastmen in Jagged Peak seem to have been around for a long, long time

[frozen olive]

It does also seem to remove immortality and restore the concept of death

[vivid spire]

Yeah that’s true

[grave plinth]

It possible that undeath was once a thing but stopped being a thing after Marika seized control of the Elden Ring. Now with the Rune of Death broken its spreading though the Lands Between like a cancer

[obtuse halo]

that's kind of default for the endings though

[vivid spire]

So all the baggage of immortality isn’t a thingy

[obtuse halo]

you always release destined death

[frozen olive]

Personally, i don't wsnt to become a weird zombie person when i die

I know Miriel said all things can be conjoined but i'm kinda not down with Those who live in death

[obtuse halo]

Those who live in death are also connected to the Deathbirds - they're found in the same places and deathbirds suffer the same massive damage multiplier certain things get against undead

[atomic plinth]

That's why we shed the flesh for the strength and certainty of steel!

https://tenor.com/view/tts-beep-mechanicus-gif-19305244

[obtuse halo]

and the deathbirds seem to be connected to the Twinbird so

[grave plinth]

Its possible that the Mending Rune of Death might actually restore what seems to have been the afterlife before the Erdtree replaced it

[obtuse halo]

it might be an outer god thing

[vivid spire]

That’s the hope

[obtuse halo]

Also, those who live in death and death in general have a curious connection to The Sea

[vivid spire]

Idk everything melding into undeath seems.. not the vibe of the ending

It’s not as grim as dung eater or something

[frozen olive]

I rate it under Goldmasks ending

[obtuse halo]

You can find zombies staring off into the ocean, Godwyn looks pretty fishy, and the description of the Helphen sounds suspiciously like a Lighthouse

The lamplight is similar to grace in appearance, only it is said that it can only be seen by those who met their death in battle.```

I was just going by basegame stuff but yeah that too

very possibly!

[vivid spire]

If it allows me to hug fia in the afterlife I’m in

But idk

Something about this feels so sketchy

[frozen olive]

Duskborn is better than Frenzied Flame, Fell Curse and Frscture imo

[vivid spire]

Maybe it’s just me

[frozen olive]

But not better than Perfect Order pr Age of Stars

[obtuse halo]

oh, and also the lands between is full of aquatic spirit creatures (jellyfish, and funky kodama tubeworms in the land of shadow)

[frozen olive]

Jellyfish are potentially spirits of the dead also

[grave plinth]

And the Tibia Mariners

[frozen olive]

Specifically children

[obtuse halo]

Not to mention Tibia Mariners

lol beaten to it

[grave plinth]

Also the Cerulean Coast

The burial culture of sending the dead downriver to the sea

[obtuse halo]

anyway, yeah. There are lots of little connections between Death and the Sea

no singular big smoking gun "ah yes poseidon is the death god" type thing, but it's a broad, consistent thematic connection

[vivid spire]

Oh shit

Maybe we become fishfolk when we die

[obtuse halo]

the first deathtouched you're likely to see ingame are also by the water - either on the coast near the coastal cave, or in agheel lake

[obtuse halo]

Drownies

[kind garden]

Poseidon was the Cthonic god of rivers, earthquakes, and the underworld in Mycenean Greek mythology...

Food for thought.

[vivid spire]

Hmm

It just.. the idea of a watery sea afterlife spooks me

I don’t know much about mending ending

Is it just “GO fixed”

[kind garden]

that's exactly where you're sending everyone if you pick the Mending-Rune of the Death Prince ending, actually. This has been revealed to me by sources I will not be describing.

[obtuse halo]

Most of the Fissure dungeon in the DLC is also beneath the seafloor. When you look at the graces on the map they're just in the middle of the ocean lol

[kind garden]

Actually, thinking for just a second

Coffins going down the river is obviously a major thing, and we know that the impure flesh of the dead is what melts, congeals and becomes putrescence

The DLC implies that those coffins aren't just literal coffins made by human beings as a burial custom, either, but a manifestation of death itself drifting into the Lands of Shadow as it slips through the cracks of the Golden Order

[obtuse halo]

Speaking of weird oceanic things, did you know that the sea to the east of the lands between visibly drops off into a larger ocean?

It's shown on the map and clearly visible from Farum Azula

[umbral portal]

Are those what those giant stone boats in the south are?

[kind garden]

Yea

[obtuse halo]

(you can also see it from Gurranq's house, though it's harder to clearly make out)

[kind garden]

Say, there aren't any proper TWLID manifestations in the DLC except for in the Cerulean Coast and Charos's Hidden Grave, right

oh, the Death Knights

[vivid spire]

Yeah

I’m just like..

[obtuse halo]

here's an image of it from caelid, but it's harder to tell its scale from here

[vivid spire]

Is the mending tune of death an evangelion Esq apocalypse

Everyone melded into the afterlife

It surely can’t be that simple

[obtuse halo]

maybe

an ocean all together

[kind garden]

first of all, End of Evangelion is not the apocalypse so jot that down

[vivid spire]

I wanna be hopeful

[kind garden]

but now I have to wonder - Death drifts into the Lands of Shadow, washing up on the shore in the forms of coffins that slip into the fissure below and whose contents become Putrescence

if anything, I'd guess by implementing the mending rune of the death prince you'd actually stem the flow, and prevent people from ending up as purple sludge of impurity

[vivid spire]

Also shadow keep has the boats

Where the dead are laid

[vivid spire]

It does feel like the flow isn’t supposed to be so… awful ngl

Like we see pure white souls surrounded by fungus when talking to some ghosts

[kind garden]

Well yeah, this is what happens when no one burns the dead and rakes out the ashes of Death, right

[vivid spire]

And the fungus is only where the ghosts are

[kind garden]

this is the interrupted cycle

[vivid spire]

Like deathblight doesn’t share the same aquatic visual cues

Its roots and jagged ones

[kind garden]

the boat pyres are a way of preventing the honored dead of Messmer's army from being damned to rotting away and becoming Putrescence

[umbral portal]

Godwyyyyyyyn

[vivid spire]

Also

Tibia Mariner

Boat

Maybe it’s competing influences over death

Erdtree roots versus something else

Maybe it’s the “insert headcannon here” ending ngl

[proven cloak]

Putrescence is also evocative to silver tears / albinaurics, right?

or was it just me

[vivid spire]

I feel like I’m overthinking it but I don’t wanna doom the world to zombies or like death without end

[kind garden]

scrble

[grave plinth]

It actually has fins

[proven cloak]

the mention of "impure" and the shape seemed likely

[kind garden]

it is quite literally whatever you decide it is

[grave plinth]

And frequently grows near water

[stoic sleet]

So does death drift into the land of shadow or is it pulled in? Bc the pillar holding back death is located in the LoS

[spring marlin]

miquella wanting a compassionate home for everyone but he does not jive with TWLID whatsoever is a really funny mini-tidbit of lore

[languid tiger]

it seems to be both

or at least

[proven cloak]

guess without Fia they'd be....

boned

[languid tiger]

"drifts in" in the way anything pulled by the tide drifts in

[stoic sleet]

Does it hold back death by filtering it into the land of shadow?

[grave plinth]

I mean there are royal revenants prowling the Haligtree

[languid tiger]

and the suppressing pillar seems to choke that out

[proven cloak]

Royal Revenants aren't related to TWLID, are they?

I thought they were cursed in a different way

[kind garden]

the Suppressing Pillar is directly said to be put there on purpose because it's where all death drifts to

and the Suppressing Pillar, well

suppresses it.

I really expected that pillar to actually do something

[stoic sleet]

The mariner in Charo's Grave summons a royal revenant

So there's at least a potential connection

[vivid spire]

Hmm

Fuck it

I hope you’re right about this fia

Thank you for the hugs I guess it’s time to.. fix the flow of death ngl

Actually that sounds badass

[proven cloak]

Death probably drifts to the Lands of Shadow for the same reason the influence of the Crucible is strongest

its the cycle of Life-And-Death

[vivid spire]

I’m not gonna leave the world I have work to do

[proven cloak]

where things come from, and return to - and thats why the Crucible become the Erdtree

its where 'life-itself' is bound, now

[vivid spire]

Yeah

The origins of life and the end shift depending on which entities interfere

[proven cloak]

I mean truthfully I dont have much problem with how the Erdtree does it

its not an eternal solution, because the Erdtree itself isn't

[vivid spire]

I see

[proven cloak]

but it worked well enough

[vivid spire]

I tend to conflate the Erdtree and GO

But that’s my fault ngl

To me the Erdtree is kinda parasitic

And taking that divine power back and putting it in the hands of people who understand what’s best for at least a good majority of people

That’s better

And duskborn shows that by you fixing if not everything wrong with the corruption of death then most of it

And ensuring immortality or reincarnation aren’t painful

[proven cloak]

I think its a well intentioned ending by how Fia and Rogier act

its an ending for the meek and downtrodden

what it does, who exactly knows

probably means returning to possess your own bones is a more natural process

probably integrates it into the cycles of life and death instead of being a weird glitched half-state

[vivid spire]

I like the idea of reincarnation and melding into a lifecycle

When you die, it’s not the end

And it’s not painful or controlled by another being like the Erdtree

[proven cloak]

I'd assume it also keeps skeletons from being 'stuck' like that either

gives them an out, if they want

[vivid spire]

Yeah

also I want to marry fia

Maybe Godwin is there as a ghost

He’s Vibin

[proven cloak]

I think this honestly became her main motivation for the shattering, and the reason divinity is a prison (||at least from the perspective of Trina||) - it subsumes you into a cultural role that is unending as long as your society is

a lot of the plot questions resolve neatly if you assume Marika simply didn't want to be the Elden Ring anymore

[vivid spire]

OH MY GOD

RADHAN TERRIFIES ME

[atomic plinth]

Freeze his ass

Then make him suffer massive catastrophic blood loss

And then give him Mega Bubonic COVID as a final touch

[vivid spire]

IM TOO CLOSE AHHH

rot grease time

[covert schooner]

Which one

Or rather, where are you scrble

[stoic sleet]

Marika upon being newly repaired by a victorious tarnished: "oh ffs"

[vivid spire]

I don’t wanna be Marikas consort ngl

Her personality sucks

She’s too cold

[atomic plinth]

Become Ranni's consort then

She's also cold but at least she's less of a prick

[stoic sleet]

Alternatively, just fucking burn everything

[atomic plinth]

MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WOOOOOOOOOOOORLD

[proven cloak]

100% I think shes dead by the end

[atomic plinth]

https://tenor.com/view/frenzied-flame-lord-of-frenzied-flame-frenzied-flame-ending-lord-of-frenzied-flame-ending-elden-ring-lord-of-frenzied-flame-gif-27647261

[proven cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/frenzied-bulborb-night-frenzy-pikmin-4-red-eyes-gif-1202940954242758233

[atomic plinth]

Ngl I wish Lord of Frenzied Flame ending gave you a funny helmet that changes your head into the Frenzied Flame head

[stoic sleet]

Missed opportunity

[atomic plinth]

For real

[vivid spire]

I did that (:

I wanna be Fia’s consort…

She’s gentle

[proven cloak]

I still wish there was a miquella ending, something that follows BB's letting Gehrman execute you

[vivid spire]

Unfortunately afterlife bs

[atomic plinth]

Know what else I wish

I wish that powerstancing banished knight greatswords gave you a fancy moveset

[proven cloak]

morgott's incantation spells for the player?

oh that too

[vivid spire]

Hmm

I guess I’ll do duskborn then

I’m curious ngl I’ve never tried this sort of ending before

Also souls in love forever 🥺

[spring marlin]

oh absolutely

lightly boosts frenzied flame incants

the true reason to become lord of frenzied flame is because you don't want to keep reequipping the lantern when you die so it's time to become the lantern

[vivid spire]

Oh shit new idea

Beat the game dressed in fias set

Absolutely awful defense ngl

But slayy girlboss

I think my sad twink is perfect for fia look at their silly hair

[atomic marsh]

born to fight in the 100 years war

forced to fight demigods

[modest berry]

i was meant to die crushed by a giant perfumer ballistae bolt 💔

[vivid spire]

God I I

Fuck

I decided to have fia hug me and I forgot how sweet she is

I’ve ignored her up to this point

[atomic plinth]

That's another thing I wish showed up, the colossal perfumer bolts

[vivid spire]

Accursed choices

Elden Love Triangle

[vivid spire]

I wish we could operate ballstae

[vivid spire]

Wait there was a—oh yeah there was

I only know the 30 years war

[atomic marsh]

there was a lot of years wars

[vivid spire]

I never considered how fucking

Annoying Radhan is for melee

Running around constantly resummoning things is getting to me

I DID IT

RAHHHHHHH

[stone cove]

I never really b othered with the re-summons in radhan

i just like summon and start stabbing him to death

[vivid spire]

I always used to think she was shady as fuck but also nice but honestly I misjudged

[obtuse halo]

She is shady as fuck. But she does just like giving hugs.

[grave plinth]

Hugs r gud

[vivid spire]

My sense of preservation says duskborn bad

But my soul does want hugs…

Sorry Ranni I have a new wife now

Blah blah leave the lands between

FALSE

Fix death (:

[grave plinth]

Simply give yourself to our exalted and infallible mistress of the dark moon

Our lunar prodigy who can do no wrong

All shall fear her and rejoice

[vivid spire]

But I did that five different times ;-;

Maybe it’s time for a change

[grave plinth]

There’s always the chaos option

https://tenor.com/view/frenzied-flame-lord-of-frenzied-flame-frenzied-flame-ending-lord-of-frenzied-flame-ending-elden-ring-lord-of-frenzied-flame-gif-27647261

[real shadow]

https://tenor.com/view/heavy-tf2-team-fortress2-uber-ubercharge-gif-25046063

[vivid spire]

Cringe

[frail sky]

May it take the world 🙏

[grave plinth]

LET THE FLAMES RISE!

[atomic plinth]

Oh this is a fun build

I love cosplay builds

I think the other guy was going for a Champion Gundyr kinda vibe

[proven cloak]

you could always dung-eat

[vivid spire]

I think I’m happy where I am ngl

I have my own interpretation of duskborn

Also

What’s the reccomended level for weapons by the time you kill Radhan

My Lucerne is only +8 finding stones without bell bearings is a struggle

[obtuse halo]

+8 is a little low but definitely winnable

I'd say ballpark +12 regular or +5 somber is the expected progression for Radahn

I think there's a somber 5 in the courtyard right before the fight, which seems like a good indicator 😛

[grave plinth]

UNLEASH IT UPON THEM! A CURSED BLESSING TO ALL!

[proven cloak]

the pox, yet tendah

[vivid spire]

Lucerne is basic smithing stones

[obtuse halo]

yeah, I'm aware. I thought 8 was a little low

[languid tiger]

that and a couple standard 4s in castle redmane, yeah?

[obtuse halo]

that sounds right

[stone cove]

There's also a 5 and 6 in castle redmane iirc

And you can find some sevens and eightsj ust out in the world in caelid

caelid is wild

[grave plinth]

BBBBBBBBLESSSSSSSS YYOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUU!

https://tenor.com/view/elden-ring-elden-ring-meme-dung-dung-eater-elden-ring-loathsome-dung-eater-gif-25565712

[vivid spire]

I did ruin strewn precipice

Got some more fours

I’m saving seluvis’ potion for dung eater

[frail sky]

RIP Boggart

[grave plinth]

Y’know what’s funny, with the DLC its heavily implied that Godrick was the only demigod who actually wanted to do the ritual marriage with Marika and become Elden Lord

[frail sky]

Wait what

[grave plinth]

Radahn is hinted to be working for Ranni, Rykard wants to eat god, Miquella and Malenia were doing their own bit, and Mohg’s (brainwashed) plan was to replace Marika with Miquella

[languid tiger]

godrick just wanted to hide in his castle

after he got his shit kicked in by going grabby grabby like three times

[grave plinth]

I mean yeah he’s a coward but his platform is “i bring all you losers back home with me and i become Godfrey 2.0 by wedding great-great-gramma”

[proven cloak]

Morgott had to try entering the tree at least once

[warped quest]

i don't think radan is working for ranni

i think the opposite is true

[grave plinth]

Ranni working for Radahn?

[warped quest]

no them against eachother entirely

[stone cove]

Bleh. I have been triyng invading and iwth my ocnnection it's just not worth it

[languid tiger]

there's definitely a level of possible collusion between the three siblings

not confirmed ofc, but every group of full siblings seems to have had at least a pretty decent relationship

depending on how hinged Miquella started

[grave plinth]

At the very least there seems to be an alliance between Radahn and Rykard

[warped quest]

is there?

i don't really remember that at all

[obtuse halo]

Yeah idk about that

[warped quest]

pretty sure everyone was fighting everyone except for the twins

[grave plinth]

Radahn’s forces have Tormentor Virgins

[obtuse halo]

The Blasphemous Claw hints at cooperation between Ranni and Rykard but I don’t remember anything for Radahn

[grave plinth]

And Rykard keeps a portrait of Radahn in the Volcano Manor sitting room

[stone cove]

Yeah, there's a few tormentor virgins that seem to be supporting Carian and Redmane forces

[obtuse halo]

I…guess? There’s one haunting their courtyard

[warped quest]

im not sure id call it supporting

also its very possible its just a family thing

theres one in the dlc

[stone cove]

SOmeone did a cool post on the fact that the finger creepers are invading places agaisnt the great will which i need to find

[warped quest]

theres 2 in the dlc at that one castle

[grave plinth]

There are several tormentor virgins in Caelid and they’re all coded as non hostile to Redmane forces

[grave plinth]

Yeah Ranni might actually be aware of Metyr

[warped quest]

i don't see that actully mattering that much with how often it seems like people should fight but dont

there is very little infighting except for in a few select locations

[stone cove]

https://old.reddit.com/r/EldenRingLoreTalk/comments/1dsgxto/fingercreeper_locations_in_the_lands_between/

Top comment here

https://old.reddit.com/r/EldenRingLoreTalk/comments/1dnixhf/caria_manor_is_under_siege_by_rannis_fingers/

[grave plinth]

When Ranni references “i won’t be controlled by that thing” she might be referring to Metyr, not the Two Fingers assigned to be her handler

[vivid spire]

Killed the falling star beast

[vivid spire]

Wait what

[grave plinth]

Since the Two Fingers are basically receivers for Metyr

[vivid spire]

I just talk to Rya and get the necklace right

I’ve never done dung eaters quest

[warped quest]

yeah do rya;s quest is a verty important quest

for crab

[stone cove]

Do Not Buy Crab From BOggart

until you've done the dung eater stuff

otehrwise he moves and gets ganked by Dung Eater

[frail sky]

Wait that works?

I assumed you had to get him to move to do Dung Eater's quest

[vivid spire]

I dislike D

[median rock]

L + ratio + should not have been racist against skeletons

[stone cove]

I believe it does.

It locks you out of one of the better fist weapons & a unique ash of war unless you go kill boggart yourself though

[median rock]

yeah, if you just buy the necklace from him + don't ever talk to him again he won't move

[obtuse halo]

also a seedbed curse on the off chance you care about dung eater's quest and the iron mask

[median rock]

dung eater has a random commoner corpse instead

[obtuse halo]

(though it's an extra seedbed curse, there are enough in the game without it)

[vivid spire]

I just want the spirit ash

[proven cloak]

I assume its just her flesh in general

[vivid spire]

Hmm

So how do I get the dung eater puppet

Or the like spirit ash idk

[warped quest]

you need ot do the quest lin efor selvius

then make dungeater drink the potion when he is strapped to a chair

[atomic plinth]

BUT

You CANNOT advance Ranni's quest beyond the fingerslayer blade

[vivid spire]

Oh shit

[atomic plinth]

Which is fucking stupid but it is what it is

[vivid spire]

I gave her the blade

[signal harness]

why the fuck is this guy called "Midra"??

This is clearly Peakdra

[vivid spire]

Also I get a choice after the final boss of who to summon for the ending right

[warped quest]

the only thing i didn't like about that fight was the headsplosion

[vivid spire]

I don’t get locked out

[warped quest]

as long as your not on frenzied yes

also i don' think you summon anyone for the endings except in rannis

[glossy delta]

Something something Midra Finger

[vivid spire]

Oh

So I just pick an ending then

[atomic plinth]

Aye

[vivid spire]

Fia x Tarnished is a huge “if” if we go by the logical laws of reincarnation and souls in ER ngl

Reincarnation has always existed according to gravebird and crucible lore with life fluctuating in cycles and growing and dying

[spring marlin]

secret alternate boss named "assdra" who has the same model stretched into the rig of the dlc final boss

[vivid spire]

And souls are currently vaguely tangible present things but whether that’s due to death being fucked up is unclear

[spring marlin]

||dual wields greatswords of damnation and creates frenzied flame pillars||

[vivid spire]

Fuck well now I can’t decide

Leaning towards Fia purely because

1. You gain the powers of the Prince of Death. You do not leave the Lands Between, and therefore can extent your will to remake Death into whatever you see fit
2. Idk fia nice

[atomic plinth]

Which remembrance is the most valuable?

[warped quest]

wanna know something funyn

there is only two rememberances that both optoins are melee weapons

[median rock]

dlc final boss, 50k

[warped quest]

and they are likely peoples first and final remebernace bosses

[median rock]

but for seriousness i think dlc final boss, malenia, elden beast are all 50k

[atomic plinth]

Rykard is 50k as well apparently

Just trying to figure out what I wanna dupe and pop for runes

[warped quest]

you can sadly only get an item once per ng which i really hate

[atomic plinth]

Seconded

[warped quest]

its kinda annoying how elden rinrg like to stop people from geting stuff more than once

like give me one valid reason to limit how many times you can buy a weapon

[median rock]

rykard is probably the easiest to get by far

[languid tiger]

rykard, both final bosses, malenia

ope

was scrolled a bit up

[median rock]

unless youre faster at doing the farum azula wrongwarp than running through volcano manor

which is faster for you personally. farum azula wrongwarp (belfries, then sprint to maliketh, gideon, hoarah loux, elden beast) or rya, dectus/makar (probably dectus faster?), godskin noble, rykard

if this is on a normal run not a run to get another copy specifically its probably rykard since the others require a lot of game progression

[atomic plinth]

I'll just go merc Rykard

[grave plinth]

Rykard is a gimmick fight but probably the most fun version of the storm ruler gimmick to date

[atomic plinth]

Aye

[grave plinth]

Helps that the Serpent Hunt hitbox isn’t crap

[atomic plinth]

He's not a pushover like the other gimmick fights are, he poses a legit threat

The Serpent Hunter is there to give you a fighting chance

Random thought

Do the NPC Tarnished you invade have the same grace-respawning mechanic as you the player?

[signal harness]

That's always been a little ambiguous to me

[atomic marsh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTX1kHyso80

[vivid spire]

How we looking

[atomic plinth]

Pretty solid

[spring marlin]

the stone club is genius

[proven cloak]

Is grace-respawn even canon beyond the first one all dead tarnished got?

[median rock]

dlc says yeah i think lol ||trina suicide conga line||

[proven cloak]

like in the intro normally with the grafted scion it fades to black before death, and the description of the flask implies its you were 'sure to die' without it

Godfrey doesnt seem to be treated like he's coming back, not sure any other tarnished are either, even though we arent the only to still see grace

its definitely more ambigious than like, dark souls

[median rock]

i generally assumed it was people who still saw the guidance of grace

like, if you could still see the graces you can still come back

[proven cloak]

it is kinda wild you gotta assume though

[median rock]

to be clear i have no actual idea if thats canon. thats my assumption from skipping through messages

i think its only wild because all of the dark souls games, bloodborne, n sekiro had canon explanations

its not like most other games dont

but yeah it does feel a little weird to have it not explicitly stated lol

i guess its not worse than sekiro taking plcae in 1 day

[proven cloak]

I've seen some people do a sort of mixed interpretation

where respawning is canon until they defeat Malekith

(and so Godfrey can still have grace point to us + not be coming back)

I just dont think about it lol

[atomic plinth]

Lmao

[stoic sleet]

i will admit that it took me a minute to figure out what all these "mist, or beast" messages were referencing

[atomic plinth]

Lmfao that's fucking amazing

[obtuse halo]

solid

[atomic plinth]

...where the piss are the summon signs for Ansbach and Leda

[languid tiger]

directly where ansbach is

or was

[atomic plinth]

Not showing up for me

[obtuse halo]

assuming you mean for the fight, yeah look at Ansbach's location in the storehouse

if it isn't there, try talking to Leda at the cross again?

[languid tiger]

have you done the hornsent step of the quest?

[atomic plinth]

Fuck's sake, did I breathe funny and mess up the questline?

[atomic plinth]

Aye

But I did it after I gave him the scroll

[languid tiger]

there's only one way to mess up the questline, and it's giving ansbach the scroll

[atomic plinth]

Fucking lovely

[languid tiger]

he disappears after that

[atomic plinth]

Guess I'm waiting until ANOTHER new game cycle for that bow

Wish these quests weren't so finnicky

[obtuse halo]

😭

i'm sorry

I would have been real salty if I'd managed to fuck that quest up on bow-only

[atomic plinth]

Fucking breathe the wrong way and oops, you messed up three different questlines, try for another new game iteration

[languid tiger]

lol

this is the only quest in the dlc that can break, and it's just by giving ansbach the scroll

nothing compares to ds3

[atomic plinth]

Fuck, yeah

Was worse then

[languid tiger]

actually, i take it back, you can stumble into missing the hornsent choice by hitting messmer

it doesn't break the rest of the quest chain

but it does stop you from getting swift slash

or the leda counter damage talisman if you choose that instead

hmm

i'm looking it up, and apparently i'm wrong

and the signs only show up after you give ansbach the scroll

[atomic plinth]

?

Hm

Maybe I need to talk to Leda again

Right, that did it

God I wish this game communicated more

[median rock]

i mean im pretty sure you have to talk to leda to get her dialogue that says "ansbach will have gone to shadow keep" or something along those lines. like, of all of the quests, that one is relatively clear in terms of "npc dialogue line must say what theyre gonna do next"

nothing like jar-bairn or that one hyetta dialogue where theres no real reason to believe u gotta reload 4 times in a row (jar-bairn)

[atomic plinth]

...and now I just feel like a tool for getting pissed

Not because of you

[kind garden]

fucking... why is THIS a Crucible spiral

[obtuse halo]

it's a piece broken out of an older version of the Elden Ring

(this symbol is in Malekith's Arena at Farum Azula)

[kind garden]

I mean, yeah, that being the principle of life and death entwined into a ladder extending upwards to godhood

but why is the Sacred Relic Sword shaped like a spiral

[median rock]

because its specifically taken from/made of marika da elden ringer

who was, as a god, nominally metaphysically shaped like that

accidentally frame perfect quitout crashed trying to not jump off a cliff like an idiot :(

[obtuse halo]

yeah I wasn't being metaphorical

the elden ring is part of Marika and Radagon's Bodies after all

[covert schooner]

Man I gotta say

I kinda like that we CANT get morgott’s spells

He believes the most in the golden order and the erdtree

[median rock]

the light weapons?

[covert schooner]

We CANNOT MATCH

How much he beloved

*believes

And yeah

Someone mentioned it above

[median rock]

dude..... jarburg is covered in flowers because ||shaman village looks like that||.....

:(

[obtuse halo]

Wait no why would you say that

😭

[frozen olive]

[modest berry]

this is also the shape of miquellas needle, placi when hes trying to communicate w/his lost god and metyrs tail

more interesting symbol musing

the forehead sigil, is it a crucifix? it sorta looks like a combo of radagon and marikas seal maybe?

[steel scroll]

my guess is its either an element of shaman culture or a mark the hornsent would use to identify them. since elements of both shaman religion and hornsent oppression made it into the golden order

[gray leaf]

...so, this is probably both known and unimportant, but ||seeing as how Messmer reacts when his snake sees you and he has a glass eye... he's blind, right? Or, at least, blind unless you count the snakes as directly part of his body?||

[stone cove]

https://old.reddit.com/r/EldenRingLoreTalk/comments/1ehrvt1/theory_empyreans_are_nascent_stars/

[gray leaf]

...I appreciate this and it's interesting, but I dislike when lore theories weave in and out of the universe for justification, and bring in real-world mythology or references.

[trail sail]

I mean

Real world mythology absolutely has influences here, though? Nothing is purely original

[gray leaf]

I respect that, but I also feel like it shouldn't be usable as a source.

[trail sail]

Why is that, though? There's simply not enough to go on in ER to pull threads entirely from within the game for some things

[gray leaf]

Because:

1. It's weaving in extradiegetic information as though it were part of the world. It may have inspired the world, but it also might not have; there's no direct evidence of in what ways it would or would not connect, or which facts are or are not carried over.
2. It blurs the line between Watsonian and Doylist analysis.

That's kind of the same thing twice, admittedly.

[languid tiger]

when people utilize that as sources for "this correlates somewhat to an irl equivalent, therefore this assumption is hard confirmed", it's frustrating

because no, it's an assumption with no proof

and that's how you get misinformation

[gray leaf]

It gets a bit circular sometimes, too. Like, "there's a myth of scarabs carrying the sun -> the thing the scarabs are rolling is connected to the sun -> the scarabs are a reference to the myth in which scarabs roll the sun".

[trail sail]

I mean, it's even stated it's a theory

[gray leaf]

Sure, but it's a theory which acts like it has a lot of evidence and is simply not explicitly proven, rather than just an idea.

[trail sail]

shrug like, fair enough, but I think it's supremely difficult to try and draw connections without that analysis when so much of Elden Ring is Vibes based storytelling

[gray leaf]

That's fair, but it means that you're drawing inferences about the world using stuff which isn't part of the world.

[languid tiger]

that's one of my biggest complaints with the practice, yeah

[gray leaf]

If you look at the evidence in the game and say "this seems inspired by this myth", that's one thing. If you look at a myth and use that to draw inferrences about the game, that's another.

Especially if you're using the myth to link two things in the game which were not previously linked conceptually. You can point out those potential connections, sure, but I feel like you can't really use those as evidence for anything else without wandering off into the weeds of self-supporting headcanons.

Also... "all confirmed Empyreans are feminine"... you kind of don't get to say "well, Miquella is long-haired and effeminate, and therefore my theory linking Empyreans to metaphorical wombs still holds". I mean, yes, St. Trina exists, but that feels like taking a conclusion and hammering the facts into place to fit it. There is an argument connecting Miquella to the harvest and life and plenitude, but if you want to use that as an important characteristic, then Ranni doesn't meet that in any way.

I also dislike stuff which draws strong inferences from very specific word choices when those word choices are from the English translation.

[dusty kraken]

I stand by my Balor's Poisonous Eye mythological link with Elden Ring 😛

[stone cove]

Genuinely interested in rthis, please go on

[gray leaf]

I want to like this more, but I feel like it's very flimsy, for all of the aforementioned reasons. Or, to ram it all into a list:

1. Draws inferences from real-world myths, sometimes circularly, and then uses them as evidence to support other things.
2. Makes a very major leap of logic, mostly unexamined, and sort of hidden by the fact that the relevant sentence has a citation for an earlier part of it (namely, that the living jars seeded the Minor Erdtrees, because many Minor Erdtrees have broken jars near them; this is an intriguing theory, but not one that's strongly supported, and the presence of actual erdtree seeds is something that needs to be acknowledged).
3. Makes use of specific word choices for inferences, based on English synonyms.
4. "All confirmed Empyreans are feminine": this requires a tortured definition of feminine to explain why Miquella counts (or, if you're talking about life-giving, why Ranni counts), and it hangs a lot of weight on the word "confirmed" because Messmer (who's heavily implied to be an Empyrean) aggressively torpedos this idea.
5. A lot of leaps of logic in general.
   It's neat, but just a bit too fragile.

[stone cove]

The living jars/erdtree one is activley wrong, i belivei n the base game there's lore about the jars brining the corpses back to the erdtrees to return the bodies to the root

I think? i'd have to check

but Jars in teh overworld serve very diffenret purpses to jars in the underworld it seems

[gray leaf]

Also "A crucible is a pot for melting metals - a function of stars." is just... that's a lot of wordplay.

[gray leaf]

...actually, come to think of it, do they serve a very different purpose, or just act towards a different end? Consider the practice of Erdtree burial.

[dusty kraken]

Basicly 'Singular Eyes' is used a lot in Elden ring to represent dark and terrible power. Balor's Poisonous Eye is a famous part of the Invasion Cycle from Irish Mythology. A single eyed giant who's vision was taint itself. You actually see Literally That in the Giant Skeletons that get summoned by the Mariners. They shoot the deal laser from a Single Eye.

Mesmer has a single eye sealing his horror, Destined Death appears in a single eye with Melina , the Giants shoot lasers from a single eye, the Fire Giant have a 'single eye' in their Main Face and are noted for having a Single Eyed God. etc

Elden Ring seems to have a strong influence from Irish Mythology and the usage of 'single eyes' as a symbol is a big part of it, especially with giants.

[gray leaf]

Do you have a source describing the purpose of Erdtree burial, so I can support this? But... per the description of the Greatjar,

[The hornsent] offer their prayers to the innards of the greatjars, such that they might be reborn one day into sainthood. This is the cycle of death and rebirth, taken into the hands of mortal men.
Erdtree burial is, arguably, in some ways, the same thing: taking the fallen and placing them to be reborn in a greater form. It's just the ways in which that's done which vary.

The hornsent put the lowly and base criminals into jars to be reborn in flesh; the Golden Order puts heroes into the roots of the Erdtree to be reborn from it. In each case, the cycle of death and rebirth is being taken into the hands of mortal men.

It's a return to the symbolic origin, either a crucible of flesh or the roots of a tree. ...and, now, I'm considering treating the jars as psychopomps of some description, and I'm wondering whether that leads anywhere interesting.

[stone cove]

No direct source, but onc e again we're back to irish mythology (Ask @dusty kraken Irish myths love their cauldrons), and also we constiently find the jars all around minor erdtrees, where they've bene b roken open.

"Erdtree Burial" is a big thing, of great signfiacne (Ancient Dragon Knight Kristoff)

"
After the First Defense of Leyndell, Kristoff earned the hero's honor of Erdtree Burial for the feat of capturing Godefroy the Grafted."

Living jars have erdtree sigils on their seals, as well.

I'm not sure there's direct written statements, but htere's a ton of visual evidence

and ER is huge on visual evidence and visual storytelling

[stone cove]

Total sidetrack, i was doing Gaisu summonless yesterday, and fucking hell, i had so much of a worse time this time around compared to when i first foguht him

like what a miseraible fuckign fight with teh dodge hitboxes

I actually figureed out the charge has two hit boxes?!

OR one hit box that's big enough and is allowed to double hit you

Like absoloteuly wild

[frozen olive]

the charge is absolutely broken

i think it can hit you up to three times

it's almost impossible to dodge through it

[warped quest]

i used the longhaft deathaxe against him and its pretty effective

[stone cove]

The best i was able to do is to dodge just before impact and at a specific angle - If you imagine him coming from North to south in a straight line, you need to dodge NNNE - a very slight angle.

But the timing is arse

The other hting i noticed is that it's got the same issue as a lot of the other obss fight,s which is the monteum of the fight is punative.

If you're landing hits and not getting hit, it's actually pretty easy and you can chunk him very rapidly

the moment you get hit and try and stop to heal, you get fucked, because the boss doesnt acutally have down time to let you heal safely

[frozen olive]

you can kinda dodge to the side if you strafe as soon as he starts charging

but yeah Gaius Charge fucking sucks

[mighty warren]

For some reason i had extremely consistent dodges by dodging at him in my most recent run
wouldn't suggest it for everyone that timing is tight but man if felt great rolling through him

[stone cove]

Yeah the first time i did it, i was really ocnsitent too

ANd this time it wasnt

[frozen olive]

i have dodged his charge a few times

but the timing fucking sucks

[mighty warren]

It doesnt help that it seems to be like
2 seperate hits? i think?
ive noticed when blocking it ill take two seperate stamina chunks

that or its just a "continuous" type of hit where it keeps doing its shit as long as you are in the box

But its very telling when i can dodge the entire fight except for one attack when i am by no means THAT good at the game

which i guess that statement doesnt really click after my most recent run, hm.

[stone cove]

It is two hiuts at least

hits*

It's very noticalbe with some of his knockdowns, you get hit as you're in the get up animation

and then you flinch and imemdiately get hit again

which usually kills you

(and my character is Tanky as fuck, ignoring the fact i dont use the greatshield talisman, i've still got 2.2k hp

and i'm in full radahn's except for the headpiece

[mighty warren]

Huh, odd
ive experienced the proper 2 hits but havent died to em often

journey 3 for clarity

Shrug, i dont doubt you mind you

Gaius still fuckin' sucks either way

...admittedly its only his charge i dont like
i enjoy just about every other move

especialyl his psycho crusher

[stoic sleet]

yeah Gaius's charge is a headache. i think if you dodge straight through it you're still in his hitbox when your iframes end

i found that dodging diagonally towards the flank without his sword-lance was the most reliable

[stone cove]

It is for sure, Not Fun

shifting trakcse ntirely, Divine Beast Tornado is very good now

it's not going to out damage something like Knight Lighting Spear, but that's not it's job

it's got hyper armor for days, it flinches shit while you're charging it

and a fully charged one launches most humanoid enemies and will knockdown players

like you can yeet a Curseblade up into the air with it, which is very funny to watch

and it's not like it's bad damage either - 60 faith, Godslayer seal, no otehr bonsues to cast, 17 scoobydooby levels, and i'm seeign 1.4k hits on stuff like Messmer Soliders

So very solid damage fp for it's massive aoe and reliablity of casting

Oh, andi t's got real proper hyper armor ontop of it's flinching so yo ucan still trade hits with someoen while you're charging

[mighty warren]

Christ i just realized why || consort's lion claw attacks are so easy to dodge for me, Artorias||

[stone cove]

Oh and on bigger targets? Like Dragons, magmaworms, etc

it can multihit

I just hit a magmawyrm with it 3 times in a single cast

[stone cove]

Further apros of nothing: I'm a little shocked no one is talking about the Pata.

You have fist attackspeed and moveset, with straightsword range

Including thrusting heavies

[mighty warren]

Honestly i really wanna use it but its clearly designed to be powerstanced

[stone cove]

Yeah, but it's a paired weapon so you just two hand it?

And then you're auto powerstancing it

[mighty warren]

Thats
what i meant, yes.
just two handing it, i forgot powerstance is specifically dual weapons

[stone cove]

I dont really understand why that's a problem, personally?

[proven cloak]

it is made from Marika / Radagons body - someone we know ascended through the divine gate (and presumably, its crucible current)

so its like

unravelling them as a person, leaving only the godhood behind?

Thats kinda the symbolism I take from it

[gray leaf]

That's a take that had never occurred to me but which makes sense.

[proven cloak]

even pre-dlc spirals = divine was pretty well supported

[mighty warren]

Playstyle differences, i prefer having one hand free for incantations at a moment's notice

[proven cloak]

the Elden Stars incantation has a real prominent one too

[mighty warren]

it feels made for two handing, and i dont really two hand my weapons

[gray leaf]

...apparently the Shard Spiral incantation is "the product of a failed attempt to create a new comet" and I don't know what exactly this means given our knowledge of intertwining spirals but maybe it means something?

[proven cloak]

the real wild spiral is the shard spiral spell - a failed attempt to “make the seeds of a star” by glinstone wizards

which is really notable given the similarities between ||graven masses and jar innards||

two ways of looking at the same thing?

[proven cloak]

oh lol I was just typing that too

[gray leaf]

Perhaps! Although, looking at the wiki, unless comets are stated somewhere to be the seeds of stars, something seems to be off.

[proven cloak]

game uses comets, stars, and meteors pretty interchangeably

[gray leaf]

It does?

[proven cloak]

graven schools are called them directly in their talismans