Elden Ring (DLC hype room)

[grave plinth]

||that's what most people assume||

[proven cloak]

or in other words:

[gray leaf]

Maybe? But then, yeah, it pretty much confirms that at basically every level of every heirarchy, ||people were abandoned by their leaders, who were supposed to give them directions and guidance, and frequently they have no clue why. So they try to do what their leader would want, and give themself fully over to their leader, and wait for instructions which will never come... or they lash out and start breaking things in a desperate attempt to change something, or at least to break out. Or, very occasionally, they try to make things better... but still acting within the same systems.||

[atomic plinth]

||Given it has an attack that does that to you the player it seems logical to assume the Elden Beast did it||

[grave plinth]

||but that spear looks nothing like anything it throws at us||

[proven cloak]

oh yeah, with the grab attack I think this is likely

but ||she tried to Shatter it first||

post dlc I'm almost leaning towards ||Marika holding the ring in herself as less a function of the ring, and more a Marika specific thing||

||and why she couldn't easily just leave - she tied her fate to that of the Ring (+ Radagon)||

||When she shattered the ring, she cracked - and so did the Elden Beast, judging by its wounds||

could very well be a situation where 2/3 of the trio were acting in self-defense

fucked up all around

[gray leaf]

I think it's because ||she was an Empyrean, and it is the nature of an Empyrean to bear within them an Outer God.||

[atomic plinth]

||Could also be why her and Radagon became one, easier to control her when she started showing signs of rebellion?||

[proven cloak]

🤷‍♂️

[languid tiger]

||i think that was something she did herself||

||considering the miko powers||

[proven cloak]

I used to call most things Outer Gods, but nowadays I'm much more of a purist regarding them

idk if its accurate to refer to the GW as such, or many of the other gods

same with the moons

like, ||What is Miquella a vessel for, if Outer God containment is part of being an Empyrean?||

[gray leaf]

Actually! Here's a question which only just occured to me: ||outer gods appear to dwell within the eyes, leading to scarseals and soreseals. So where did Radagon's scarseal/soreseal come from? They have a rather distinctive and consistent pattern and symbology, after all.||

[grave plinth]

||He's trying to bootstrap himself into a bespoke god using the Crucible I think||

[gray leaf]

That's a great unresolved question, because ||logically there would be something, right? It would explain the eternal youth/nascency. But we hear no more about it. Also no sign of his shadow (or Malenia's, for that matter) which is odd.||

[atomic plinth]

||dwell within the eyes||

||WE MUST LINE OUR BRAINS WITH EYES TO COMMUNE WITH THE GODS||

[mighty warren]

Wrong image whoops

[gray leaf]

I just realized something! ||Is there anything at all in the Lands of Shadow that's in any way connected to Radagon, save for Messmer and his red hair?||

[obtuse halo]

The only character we know to have recieved one of Radagon's Seals was the Ancient Hero of Zamor held in the Evergaol on the Weeping Peninsula

with a scarseal

[mighty warren]

|| the fuck is this abomination of a talisman||

[obtuse halo]

the lore on Zamor in general is sparse though so I have no idea why that would be

[proven cloak]

I mean ||his mom was the goddess of Life||

[warped quest]

honestyly all the curicbale talismans are just garbage

[frozen olive]

||it's the crucible talisman, talisman of all crucibles||

[proven cloak]

I see him as continuing whatever she had

[warped quest]

even all of the combined and they had no downside would still be meh

[atomic plinth]

||That thing is so fucking bad lmao||

[proven cloak]

this loops around, because theres way more evidence for the Crucible being Greater Will connected than otherwise

So if thats an 'outer god', 🤷‍♂️

though

[atomic plinth]

||30% less damage on headshots on a talisman that makes you take 45% more damage, fucking galaxy brained move there||

[gray leaf]

I think that the Golden Order wanted to fight the Fire Giants to stamp out their fire, and the Zamor Warriors were also opposed to the Fire Giants and so the Golden Order decided to team up with them.

[proven cloak]

I also dont think Outer Gods are evil scheming tyrants, either

seem much more passive, compared to their followers

[real shadow]

||https://fixupx.com/SinisterStrombo/status/1813991238439157972|| Speaking of Metyr.

[proven cloak]

||Connected to sewing?||

[gray leaf]

Honestly I think they just... are. Maybe they're even kind, for some peculiar definition of the word. Maybe they're not really the sort of thing that could be described as a person, at least as we would understand it.

[proven cloak]

lots of thread and needle imagery

around godhood and gold, and radagon through the golden sewing needle / preceptors

[mighty warren]

|| Ill be honest i dont even know what all the crucibles do but fucking 45% MORE? CHRIST, i dont care about playing optimally, my current main weapon is a fuckin sword lance, but god damn man.||

[gray leaf]

...good point. And the needle sword, which does the same thing as the Law of Regression.

[proven cloak]

yeah, big forces that act through the world

the dlc uses the phrase "twisted divine element" a few times

[obtuse halo]

this also ties into fabric symbolism with the six baldachins spreading across the land of shadow, between the scadutree and the divine towers

[proven cloak]

I wonder if Outer Gods are... fucked up echoes of the divine, caused by intense suffering

the base game already portrayed Frenzy this way, but the dlc adds the Formless Mother and Rot God

[obtuse halo]

and the baldachin blessings associated with death

[gray leaf]

They're caused by and/or drawn to suffering.

[atomic plinth]

||Oh yeah it's awful for that alone||

[atomic plinth]

||"Reduces damage from headshots and critical hits" mf I am still taking 45% MORE DAMAGE, I'm better off just equipping Crucible Knot or Crucible Scale||

[mighty warren]

|| Jesus fromsoft just add calamity ring again if you want||

[obtuse halo]

apparently that emote is "omegalul" but I definitely thought it was The Darksign

[atomic plinth]

||They did, Daedicar's Woe||

[mighty warren]

|| atleast thats more upfront||

[mighty warren]

Fair

Oh right
holy fuck i am in love with the sword lance

[obtuse halo]

an infusable boss weapon is pretty sick

[mighty warren]

i liked the heavy thrusting sword's moveset in general but never clicked cause dex scaling

and now theres one that doesnt have dex scaling and its just my favorite

er well

[atomic plinth]

I can't say I'm a fan of thrusting movesets tbh, they feel... samey

[mighty warren]

not "doesnt have"

but its not the focus

[atomic plinth]

"Poke. Poke. Poke. Poke."

[mighty warren]

Nah thats fair, its very much not an everyone weapon

[languid tiger]

yeah i fucking love spears but i don't like ER spears

[mighty warren]

i do enjoy that its used like an actual lance on torrent though

well, its heavy is

[atomic plinth]

Primary reason I didn't switch to a turtle poke build for the final DLC boss, it would've felt insanely dull

[mighty warren]

I also never realized you can block and poke with a shield and thrusting weapon so thats been nice to find out

[frozen olive]

shield is pretty fun

i got one for fighting the final boss and i've been lugging it around with Fire Knight Greasword and Messmers spear

[mighty warren]

My only wish is that it had a wide swing on its heavy instead of more pokes, its a lance and greatsword, i feel like one wide swing is fair

but, eh, its inufsable
i can just through on something like divine beast's frost stomp

[languid tiger]

i just wish more spears had movesets like the swift spear

or like mohg's

god

i wish the PC was as good at using mohg's spear as mohg was

that moveset slaps

[glossy delta]

All Crucibles, notably, can be equipped at the same time as crucible feather
If the I frame boost stacks..... I won't call it viable but it's a funky challenge run

[atomic plinth]

The Glass Build

Not Glass Cannon

It's just Glass

[warped quest]

what i hate is how nerfed parry is on anything that isnt a small shield

[mighty warren]

Oh god you know something that fucked with me a little?
Heal from afar

i run the erdtree seal cause i dont really stick with one group of incans, but seeing how quick that can get off and how much was
fuckin' fun

[obtuse halo]

you can use the enhanced parries on medium shields at least but yeah regular parry on medium is fuuuuckedd

[frozen olive]

heal from afar is cracked

[mighty warren]

generally making me wanna split my flasks differently (or just find more golden sends to have more ceruleans)

honestly i really should just sit down and hunt down all the sacred tears/seeds

my flask is still only +5

[frozen olive]

wow

you need to like

go get some upgrades

damn

that's crazy

maxing flasks is like, always my number one priority

[mighty warren]

I tend to just slam my head into the wall hard enough to break through
NG+ shadow has taught me im good at that

[warped quest]

i only use 2 blue flasks

[modest berry]

so on my new dex bow character, i went and farmed the aristocrat headband because i think its cool and was reminded by a conversation here earlier and i accidently got the nobles slender straight sword lol

[warped quest]

i did prep my loot only run

[mighty warren]

10 red, 4 blue is my current split

[real shadow]

Heal From Afar is really funny to just freecam shoot that into the floor or a wall to heal yourself more than most other spells.

[obtuse halo]

oh no, you have all my sympathies

[warped quest]

and i thought about doing the noble estoc

[obtuse halo]

i'm sorry for sharing my brainworms

[warped quest]

but then i thought

powerstance shortswords/lordsword

lordsword is probally better

[modest berry]

basically im not doing bow *only *because i value my sanity but im endevouring to use it far more than in my first playthrough

[obtuse halo]

Noble's Slender Sword is incredible tho

[warped quest]

i wish the stamina diffrence was more noticable

[modest berry]

but i have crazy luck this run, pumpkin helm the headband and NSS in the first hour

im actually summoning in like dungeons and field areas now and its so much more fun to run around with your little guys

[obtuse halo]

yeah I've had some wild luck runs like that

when I set out to build a jedi I randomly got Noble's Slender Sword and the Glaive

like, the glaive that drops specifically from Skeletons wielding it

[frozen olive]

my friend got the divine beast helm from the first possible enemy that he fought that could drop it

and i was so fucking mad

[obtuse halo]

like both in the first couple hours while I was running around grabbing stuff

[frozen olive]

cause i farmed for hours to get that damnable helmet

[modest berry]

also the round albinauric chainmail but i think i got the NSS because i wasnt looking for it, watched pot and all that

[frail sky]

Wait hold on a sec, the swift spear’s r1 chain is just the power stance thrusting sword moveset but turned into one weapon

[frozen olive]

Swift spear moment

i'm going to use it as one of 3 weapons for my seamless ER playthrough with my friends hopefully

Swiftspear, Smithscript Hammer, Golem Fists and Messmer Soldier Shield is going to be my loadout

[languid tiger]

ey, same

i wanted to switch to a full int/fth build for mine, but i started prisoner

and uhhh

6 int

[obtuse halo]

swift spear is pretty ridiculous

[frozen olive]

swift spear and Smithscript hammer are going to be one of my loadouts

[languid tiger]

so i decided to pivot from str/int to dex/int for a swift spear

[frozen olive]

so i'm going to use them together

[languid tiger]

messmer soldier shield is also so fucking cracked

and very pretty

[frozen olive]

and Golem Fists and messmer soldier shield will be the other

using sacred order on Swift Spear, Savage Lions Claw on the Smithscript Hammer, Hoarah Loux's Earthshaker on the Golem Fist and Golden Parry on the Messmer Soldier shield

[warped quest]

what is special about it?

the shield

[modest berry]

its just a big pretty 100 percent phys i imagine

[kind garden]

It just has really good guard stats

[frozen olive]

100 phys for guard

66 guard boost on max upgrade

[languid tiger]

pretty much

it takes 10 str

has excellent guard boost and 100 physblock for like

super low relative weight

[frozen olive]

it costs basically nothing to use and it has cracked phys defense

[languid tiger]

and it has solid magicals as well, other thaaaaan

holy?

i think?

[frozen olive]

nope i think all stats are even

it has no weakness

[languid tiger]

oh right yeah 43 all

so none good

[frozen olive]

43 on everything

[modest berry]

now that i got the pumpkin helm on this dex character i can try something i had seen speculated on, that being that you get reduced damage on anything that hits the helmet first which isnt a ton of attacks , however, potentially if you use beast claws your stance means you're much more likely to get struck in the helmet

[languid tiger]

but it's the physblock with 66 guard off 5 wt

and 10 str

that shines

[obtuse halo]

it's also just a good looking round shield with 100 phys

[languid tiger]

yeah also it fucks

looks real pretty

[obtuse halo]

previous round medium shields have mostly been...not incredible

usable, but not incredible

[atomic plinth]

...man, I've got like 80 INT, 60 DEX, 35 STR, I could be using some real hard hitting shit but no, here I am stubbornly clinging to my Obsidian Lamina

[frozen olive]

it's a good shield

[atomic plinth]

Better than the Brass Shield?

[languid tiger]

why u usin the arc scythe with 80 int lmao

[atomic plinth]

Because it's COOL

[languid tiger]

no, 2 lower stab

but 2 lower wt

[atomic plinth]

And also it has dogshit arc scaling anyway so me barely being above the required amount to use it doesn't do much to affect its damage

[languid tiger]

brass is better for everything but lightning res, but it's heavier and has +6 str req

[atomic plinth]

And doesn't go with as many armor sets as well, Messmer shield has that edge up

[languid tiger]

ye

[mighty warren]

I just use the black knight's greatshield and im a happy boi
that or the ecplipse crest greatshield for the passive boosts

[modest berry]

speaking of shields i just learned about the shield of the night, i had not found i0 my first time through. interesting but on a non ash of war removable 78 phys small shield rah

[obtuse halo]

Brass isn't always ugly but it rarely goes super well with things ime

[frozen olive]

i was just using Haligtree Crest Greatshield for my other character

[modest berry]

i wish the soldiers in liurnia had silver versions 😔

but they have brass ones that dont even go with their outfit

[languid tiger]

yeah :(

[frozen olive]

mostly cause it's ||capable of just, blocking the shit out of the final boss and just straight up no-diffing the second phase shit||

[warped quest]

im using the deathknight set but the helmet is cleanrot

[modest berry]

i didnt even know you could get their set huh

man i missed a good amount of stuff with no guide

[mighty warren]

It happens

just means more stuff to explore!

[modest berry]

i hate helmets that have hair on them sm

[obtuse halo]

I appreciate that Messmer's lets you remove it

[real shadow]

4% drop rate from a single specific enemy

come the fuck on

[frozen olive]

:)

[mighty warren]

If you want the black steel greatshield is similair and has a guranteed drop

its less magic def, but more holy

you will have to shift it to no skill mind you

[modest berry]

the run to the enemy that drops it is not so bad from the drainage channel grace but its a little tedious

[frozen olive]

i put no skill on my Haligtree Crest Greatshield with holy infusion

[modest berry]

if you land on his head jumping down to him he doesnt even fight back, at least he didnt for me

[frozen olive]

still annoyed that there is no "no skill" alternative for weapons

[mighty warren]

ill admit, i dual wield so littel that i was genuinely confused why you'd want that since shields are the only thing that overwrites, then i remembered "oh fuckin' right akimbo swords"

so that was funny to chuckle at myself over

[warped quest]

it defaults to right hand on powerstancing

unless its a few specific artes like pary

[frozen olive]

yeah

i wanted to use a crossbow with a specific skill

and i need to two-hand it to actually be able to use it cause it had to be in the offhand for it to make any sense

but nope

no "no skill" AoW for weapons

so i just have to two-hand it

[frail sky]

…okay so apparently my computer is so bad and so old that using the charged r2 of the perfumes significantly lowers my frame rate

[warped quest]

nah thats everyone

to diffrent degrees

the perfume is just really expensive particle effects

[frail sky]

😔

[mighty warren]

Yeah i have a fuckin
Ugh ill have to double check but im pretty sure my computer's graphics card is super new, 4060 i think, and i get hit by a frame drop

|| its even worse in the second phase of the consort fight, that fucking orbital laser man.||

[frail sky]

That’s unfortunate, they look really cool

[modest berry]

https://www.tumblr.com/tarnished-doll/755753066269114368/i-just-like-to-think-they-were-family-once?source=share

i like this idea, like hes the only shardbearer he protects even though nobody gaf about godrick

[frozen olive]

Morgott was not in the sewers by the time Godrick rolled around

at least not likely

[modest berry]

maybe? they were both participants in the shattering obviously

but the timeline is pretty fuzzy

i assume morgott was let out because he agreed to lead the leyendellians as a shock troop, i.e his fight agaisnt radahn seen in the loading screen and then his brother dipped and left a clone

[warped quest]

i always thought morgott was like a hidden king

or wore a mask

[glossy delta]

Morgott was the ruler of Leyndell well before the shattering yeah, keeping his nature a secret
The Veiled Monarch and all that

[dusty kraken]

||https://vxtwitter.com/unlevelednate/status/1814838039753204106|| Spoilers for final boss.

[atomic plinth]

...oh that's really good looking, damn

[frozen olive]

also a question

(final boss spoilers)||why the fuck have i seen people use Freyjas dialogue as some kind of proof that Radahn has any kind of agreement with what Miquella wanted to do with him and the whole consort thing?||

||all i have seen, she's literally just said that she thinks that fighting suits Radahn the best, like it's literally just her weird zealot opinion that it's what Radahn would want||

[mighty warren]

|| Pardon? what doe she say? i progressed ansbach' quest too fast and ended up not being able to finish her's||

[frozen olive]

||Yes of course, I see, as the festival of war concluded, General Radahn's soul met an honorable end, but Kindly Miquella wishes to revive it? Which is fine by me. I know it would pain old Jerren but war has always suited General Radahn best. And certainly far more than any honorable death. Endless war to invigorate the soul, as befits General Radahn, the Great Lion.||

||She even SPECIFICALLY mentions that Jerren, who was like, Radahns right hand guy, would not like it||

[mighty warren]

|| yeah wait what? that says nothing about radahn being okay with it, its just her own justification for what miquella has done||

[modest berry]

||i always figured there was some sort of importance to him and his guys with names like freyja having norse coding where hes killed by a winged valkyrie helmeted woman on the field of battle for his soul to be transported to the afterlife to fight forever. but that doesnt fully mean that he endorsed it||

[frozen olive]

||Her mentioning that Radahns best guy, Jerren, wouldn't like what Miquella wants to do, feels like pretty fucking damning evidence that Radahn would not be ok with it||

[mighty warren]

|| Iunno what Radahn would've wanted, its not like we really know him much, but no matter what none of this implies he's fine with being used as a puppet, i do air on the side he probably would hate it though||

|| What goods a fight you arent choosing?||

[modest berry]

||i think he wasnt really for it, because most of what we know about him is that he wanted to halt the fate of himself and his family, and fight forever, would he even enjoy miquellas era of peace ||

[glossy delta]

||Just cuz Jerren's closer to him doesn't mean that he'd be okay with it if Radahn was||
||Its very possible that Jerren, caring about Radahn, would not want an eternity of violence for him when Radahn totally does want that for himself||
||But yes, theres no way to know||

[mighty warren]

|| Aye, and regardless of "being okay with it" that doesnt really change how fucked it is to snatch someone's soul and use them as a stepping stone for your godhood||

[frozen olive]

||Jerren had an oath of honorable death with Radahn though, which is what the festival was about||

||Being revived as a tool for eternal war is very much opposed to this idea imo||

[mellow silo]

As a pure melee coop summon, man I hate casters

JUST LET ME SEE

I do not need your rot breath spam

[mighty warren]

|| I wish there was more to Jerren, dude seems cool as fuck, but i also feel like if he had more he might lose a little of that cool factor||

[frozen olive]

||There is something fascinating about the strongest of the demigods having an oath of honorable death with some eccentric knight guy who used to be a nomadic warrior||

[old brook]

||'Godfrey was a wandering warrior, this guy's a wandering warrior. Nice!'||

[atomic plinth]

...oh that's wallpaper material right there

[frozen olive]

Damn

[atomic plinth]

That shit's perfect for a computer background

[frozen olive]

Pretty...

[feral linden]

art is pretty
i dont know how to feel
possibly nervous laughter

[proven cloak]

amazing

||Child Murdered!||

[proven cloak]

imo, I think ||he was ok with it -> possibly changed his mind -> is ok with it by the final boss fight||

[glossy delta]

Milord that rot breath spam is what you are here for as a summon, in all likelihood

[proven cloak]

||the focus on the vow + the framing of Radahn as absolutely not tragic seals it in as fighting him for real here||

[frozen olive]

||my take is that Radahn is absolutely not there during the fight||

||lights on, nobody home type shit||

[old brook]

||He's more emotive as a rotten husk||

[proven cloak]

she is ||a very trusted one of his knights, who heard rumor that he made a vow||

[mighty warren]

i have a fun image i can post but it might have implications that mean i shouldnt post it

[proven cloak]

||with the charm worn off, she isn't being compelled when she comes to her conclusion||

[frozen olive]

||He's about as present or even less present than he was when he was rotted, if anything his more noble fighting is a result of him no longer being driven insane by Rot, and having Miquella's charm and guiding hand affecting him||

[frozen olive]

||and she's still a war crazy zealot, whereas Jerren is implicltly a confidant that Radahn trusted enough to make an oath of honorable death with||

[proven cloak]

||I don't think he's charmed at the end, at least not at first||

||Miquella doesn't even come through the gate until halfway through the fight||

[frail sky]

What other friends of Radahn’s do we know actually? Other than Jerren and ||Gaius|| I mean

[proven cloak]

his horse :)

[frozen olive]

||if Redmane Freyja thinks Jerren wouldn't be ok with it, especially knowing the lengths he went to to uphold his oath, i will simply trust that judgement more than any possible word she could give on the matter||

||ESPECIALLY due to how she acts during the Miquella Maniacs Civil War||

||she's a war crazy zealot and it really, really shows||

||she doesn't even give mention to what Radahn would have wanted actually, she specifically says that SHE thinks Radahn was more suited for War||

[proven cloak]

||But Jerren's wishes don't nessasarily align with Radahn's own - given the cutscene shows Miquella responding to someone else, it seems Radahn did make some sort of agreement with him.||

[real shadow]

||I wonder what Radahn was thinking during the fight. "I was going to be reborn through the Erdtree. But noooooo my brother and his stupid oath. Now I gotta get my ass handed to me by the same Tarnished."||

[mighty warren]

Lemme know if i should delete this
||https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1130272217863819275/1264748406090498068/IMG_1383.png?ex=669f003d&is=669daebd&hm=b7c4a48c23a79ba68c18536832f8cdf2970e02ba895a1e6ad339be280c7c693e&||

|| after seeing this thats just how i envision radahn for the fight||

[frail sky]

Honestly even only knowing of those two I get the impression Radahn is the kinda guy who either makes friends with everyone or who makes a lot of odd friends

[proven cloak]

plus ||Radahn idolizes Godfrey, and lordship under miquella very much fits that mold||

[frozen olive]

||Sure but i will absolutely trust whatever judgement Jerren has, even if it's what Freyja thinks he would have for judgement, over hers||

||and the Oath of Honorable death that he made with Jerren is pretty fucking significant, and also imo supports my point||

[frail sky]

||Like, most people in the lands between wouldn’t have their childhood best friend be an albinauric||

[frozen olive]

||i could not disagree more, Miquellas rule, the age of compassion, is literally opposite to what Godfrey was about||

[proven cloak]

His age would still require wars and establishment of the order through strength

[frozen olive]

||Godfrey at his core is a fucking war crazy barbarian guy who just loves fighting and killing things, he loved fighting and killing so much he did it until literally no other worthy foes existed in the entirety of the lands between in fact, the Age of Compassion could not possibly fit him less||

[proven cloak]

Its not like the GO faced many wars after Liurnia + Godfrey's banishment

[frozen olive]

||And even with Radahns idolization of Godfrey, he's still not the same as him and everything we hear about him, ESPECIALLY from Miquella, point towards him actually not being a crazy berserker like Godfrey||

[atomic plinth]

||Where the fuck did this goofy asshole come from lmfao||

[frozen olive]

||We admittedly don't get too much about him, but everything, even Freyjas dialogue imo, point towards him actually having the merit of a would be lord and not just some fight crazy guy||

[frozen olive]

||that divine beast spawns the basilisks on you in the Deathblight phase||

[mighty warren]

|| yeah for some reason divine beast 2 gets deathblight breath for like one attack? and basilisk buddies atleast he only did deathblight once for me||

[frozen olive]

||Freyjas dialogue even mentions the pact that RADAHN HIMSELF MADE WITH JERREN, and dismisses it as foolish, which is crazy dismissive of one of the few actions we know for certain Radahn made||

|| I know it would pain old Jerren but war has always suited General Radahn best. And certainly far more than any honorable death||

||And certainly far more than any honorable death||

[kind garden]

to be fair

that charm be hittin' different

fr fr

[frozen olive]

||she says this after the charm is broken iirc||

[proven cloak]

||though by the time of his revival its very much a win / win for Radahn||
||A pact with Miquella about being revived as his lord post-death pretty much just gives him a second chance at lordship||

||His idolization of Elden Lords is one of the few things we hear about him, moreso than any love for the particulars of the GO||

could've been making a play for Leyndell in the shattering, ||with his vow as a backup||

[frozen olive]

||I don't particularly think being puppet lord for Miquellas age of mind slavery would suit what we know of his character||

[proven cloak]

||though I think there had to be some disagreement, with the fight in Caelid||

[frozen olive]

||And i also maintain that whatever Miquella did to bring him back, he's not really all there or Miquella just has an iron grip on him||

[proven cloak]

||because he doesn't talk?||

||I'd lean more than way if there wasn't the one new Godfrey item that makes a point to underline him as the "😐" type||

do wish it more clear one way or the other though

[frozen olive]

||because he basically doesn't do anything except immediately try to fight you. Absolutely no emotion, no nothing, he just pops his swords up and goes at it, even in second phase he doesn't react to Miquella in any capacity, and Miquella essentially takes the dominant role and does all the talking and emoting||

||he's literally a statue the entire time he isn't fighting||

[covert schooner]

For whatever it’s worth

[proven cloak]

it could just be how he is, tbf

and he does ||do the same sort of motions he did to signal his fight with Malenia||

[covert schooner]

||he has cut dialogue, but it’s basically him just saying that he’s a lion bred for war. So since miquellas enchantment seems to shrive away the parts of you that would make you oppose him, maybe he basically DID have to lobotomize Radhaan||

[frozen olive]

||Yeah that is obviously not reliable since it's cut content, but that would also support my point i think. What we see of Radahn, and of his warriors, he was an inspiring and powerful leader, not just some feral dog who just wants to fight and kill||

||Even what Miquella says about him supports this||

[covert schooner]

I think when not directly contradicted soulsborne cut content is reasonable to extrapolate background info from

Since just SO MUCH gets cut from these games

[proven cloak]

Well, his ||one line of dialogue in the base game is even still about challenging fantastic threats in battle||

He's a lord for sure, but he's in it imo for the combat

[frozen olive]

||The remembrance also puts Miquellas perspective of this: Miquella saw in Radahn a lord. His strength, and his kindness, that stood in stark contrast with their afflicted selves.||

||I just don't think it makes sense at all for Miquella, who planned to create an Age of Compassion, to seek a blood crazed warrior to be his Lord, especially since he highlighted Radahns kindness as one of his attractive features for Lordship||

[proven cloak]

part of my read is influenced by items you find at the Haligtree, too
specifically the Prattling Pate "My Beloved."

Of all the prattling pates, this is the only one with an extra line of dialogue at the end of the paragraph they all share:
||Expressions of love are among the most fickle.||

||I think Radahn made the vow, and then left and 'grew up', unlike Miquella||

[covert schooner]

I don’t think things went how ||Miquella wanted them to in Caelid. I think he anticipated being able to send Radhaan away without much resistance.||

[atomic plinth]

Lmfao I started spinning around in front of a boss gate while I was waiting on the host and they fucking DC'd

[covert schooner]

||there’s a heavy implication that scarlet rot fucks you up on a spiritual level, so it’s entirely possible Radhaan is having a really fucking bad time||

[atomic plinth]

Couldn't handle a little silliness

A little whimsy

A little goofing off

[covert schooner]

TOTAL SIDENOTE but something i really like about the end of this dlc

[frozen olive]

||The incredibly strong implication that Miquella sent Malenia to Caelid to deal with Radahn also does feels like it supports the idea that Radahn did not intend to honor the vow, even if he actually did make said vow, which i am still extremely skeptical about||

[covert schooner]

||literally everyone recognizes you as elden lord by the end. no matter what you've done in the base game, to everyone here it's apperant what you will become||

[frozen olive]

||that is a really fucking cool touch yeah, i do love that||

[old brook]

||Roderika telling us how Hewg used to call us his Lord, I die||

[covert schooner]

||miquella outright calls you the elden lord in his grab||

[modest berry]

||i mentioned my take earlier but i think that could even support that he is part of the vow though|| though i have no personal opinion

[frozen olive]

||but yeah i think we could argue the point forever, there isn't really a clear answer, but personally i very strongly believe that Radahn wouldn't have wanted what Miquella did to him, and even so i really don't think he is there enough will left in him to do anything about it anyway, after having been fucked by the scarlet rot so badly||

[modest berry]

thats reasonable

[covert schooner]

||bare minimum theres basically no chance that miquella hasn't dominated him anyway||

[frozen olive]

||It was mentioned earlier but it's implied that the Scarlet Rot affects even the soul, and Radahn got hit with the Aeonia at point blank||

[covert schooner]

||both because melania having to march against him feels very.... anti-miquella. he wouldn't have resorted to war if he didn't have to, especially since trina can seemingly just kill people at will||

[frozen olive]

||this too yeah, Miquella The Kind shrives clean the hearts of men, and as a god they have no compassion or ability to care, and would absolutely do anything within their power to control the situation, and it would absolutely be within their power||

[stone cove]

Relinking this, because it's incredible and everyone needs to see it, but also, spoilers for the end of the dlc and final boss.

||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v9zl6mBpwc||

[frozen olive]

||Literally all of Miquellas followers are charmed from the getgo, even Leda who is pretty much the most loyal of them all||

[covert schooner]

yeah that video sums up what i think of him

[proven cloak]

tbf ||he seems to only Charm Leda after she kills the other Needle Knights||

though thats ||Miquella before he removes Doubt and Fear and Love and all that||

[covert schooner]

miquella is ||a meglomaniac, one with kind designs, but is incapable of allowing any others to act in anyway that MIGHT contradict him. so he dominates literally everyone who could help him so that don't have second thoughts||

[proven cloak]

it wasn't something he immediately used at first, at least

[gray leaf]

||???? there's no evidence of that at all? They gave up their love, but not necessarily compassion, and certainly not their ability to care in at least a logical and dispassionate way. Yes, he's no saint, but he's also not just a guy who goes around mind controlling everyone everywhere because he wants to rule or because he's a god.||

[covert schooner]

||i think it's very telling that ansbach considers him a monster||

[kind garden]

||Ansbach is MILDLY biased||

[gray leaf]

I really didn't get that read at all. It feels like the least charitable possible interpretation.

[frozen olive]

||The ghost right next to the love cross literally calls Miquella out for it||

[covert schooner]

||love likely means more than romantic affection here||

[proven cloak]

||so much of a control freak he sought to remove all other influences from his designs||
||His power is unalloyed, it all has to come from him||

[frozen olive]

||and yeah love is not just romantic, it's love for others, love for life, all kinds of love||

[proven cloak]

||the more charitable interpretation is that he thinks you need to be unalloyed and pure in order to remove all possible bias, to 'let all things flourish' without favoritism||

[kind garden]

||But yes, Miquella is a deeply terrifying figure who uses the ability to compel love from others to make things happen, and casting aside St. Trina is pretty dire||

[gray leaf]

Counterpoint: ||The Minor Erdtree invocation talks about calling upon "the kindness of gold, without order". I think that's the unalloyed gold being talked about.||

[frozen olive]

||the whole point is that Miquella is cutting away their humanity to become an empty vessel capable of becoming a god, and it works too well and makes Miquella incapable of achieving the goal they set out to accomplish||

[proven cloak]

It also makes a lot of sense as a reaction to the flaws of his mother

[covert schooner]

||if him carving away his love doesn't mean his compassion, then it doesn't really make much sense as a plot point, nor do people's reactions to that information. at least to me, it seemed clear that it was meant to be his love for men||

[grave plinth]

||I think the fact that Freyja essentially deserted the Redmanes is proof enough of how little she actually knew Radahn. She's like Leda, projecting her own traits onto her lord||

[proven cloak]

||We see how keeping her other half close ended for her||

[languid tiger]

||i think millicent is also a pretty solid point of evidence in favor of this||

[modest berry]

||i very much read it as when they give up everything they still have compassion, but maybe not fully empathy, " i care for all things deeply, but what i want for them is best" basically the, im an empath, i just decide how they feel and believe it, not evil but misguided||

[frozen olive]

||I agree with this also||

[languid tiger]

||the rot was eating away at everything about her, up to and including her memories and reason, long before it hollowed her out entirely||

[gray leaf]

||That's closer to what I got. He does still care. Just... not necessarily understanding people as people. He's unable to save those who cannot be saved, because he doesn't truly directly love them.||

[frozen olive]

||yeah, and Radahn got hit by that at point blank and kinda just firmed it physically for however long, ending up as a cannibalistic husk that fought anything that came near||

[modest berry]

to become a god you can no longer be a person, this is a tragedy of course

[grave plinth]

Is Miquella a Newtype?

[modest berry]

||though i feel theres a lot of assumptions made about what the planned order of theirs would be like, like it doesnt say anywhere that it would be mind control world explicitly||

[proven cloak]

this is also his contrast with Ranni

whos very "Idgaf fix it yourself"

[frozen olive]

||The point i was making is not whether or not Miquella can feel compassion or not, which i still don't think is the case, but the fact that Miquella cannot actually act on it in any reasonable way||

[grave plinth]

AT LEAST I ADMIT IT - Our Glorious Lady of The Darkmoon

[frozen olive]

||Miquella divested themselves of humanity and thus is incapable of actually achieving the goal of the age of compassion||

[covert schooner]

buut also yes i will admit im not exactly gonna give a tyrant god the benefit of the doubt

[grave plinth]

The real question is ||was Miquella actually a compassionate soul from the get go or was he just aping Big Bro Radahn in a childlike attempt to win his affections||

[proven cloak]

definitely the first one

[gray leaf]

||I think what would happen is, ultimately, it would be bad in different ways than the current age. It wouldn't be the paradise Miquella wanted, but I don't think it'd be an authoritarian mind control hellscape either.||

[proven cloak]

its interesting looking at how his cut ending contrasts with the message of the finished game

[covert schooner]

I think even until the end he truly believed he was doing what was best for everyone

[proven cloak]

I dont actually think his goals were changed

[covert schooner]

||he just doesn’t think they can be trusted to do what’s best for them||

[proven cloak]

but the finished game basically doesn't allow an ending where the Lands Between regains a God

[covert schooner]

I will take Ranni’s freedom, with all of its risk and terror, over a kind tyrant, personally

[proven cloak]

you either keep a statue, vanish into the occult darkness, or kill everything

[dusty kraken]

||My read on 'giving up compassion' is that the Miquella post that point still has the same goals but doesn't really have the emotional connection. They're goals because that's What They Do As A God, not because they want to help.||

[frozen olive]

||exactly my take||

[covert schooner]

Yeah I think that’s fair

He ||does that his now because he must||

[proven cloak]

while the cut ending implies that Miquella's "Things are better, but there is An Authority" and Ranni's "Nothing is Certain, but nobody's in control" were originally both options

[frozen olive]

||Miquella cannot actually comprehend why they are doing what they are doing at that point, only that it is what they must do||

[proven cloak]

just interesting how the games message was almost so different

[dusty kraken]

||Which I think is part of why it's a prison for them. They've got power but not agency any more.||

[modest berry]

||as a god you arent a person who feels a certain way, you are a force of reality that simply does things and they are so ||

[covert schooner]

||but honestly I think St.Trina’s wish for his death is the most compelling reason to not believe in his world. I think it’ll be a cage both for him and for all he controls||

[warped quest]

Freya i know might know what im talking about does the ||butterfly boss|| remind you of anything

[frozen olive]

||which is why it cannot be a true age of compassion, because Miquellas godhood precludes understanding||

[covert schooner]

YeH

[proven cloak]

||scorpioness najka my beloved||

[covert schooner]

Also:

[frozen olive]

||Miquella the god of compassion cannot understand humans, and cannot truly act to save them for this reason||

[covert schooner]

I think I’ve come down on where I think the separation of the lands comes in the timeline

[grave plinth]

Gagix Two-Barb

[modest berry]

and this is why ranni is their mirror i think yeah while acting openly brutal her story is ultimately about agency

[covert schooner]

I think it is genuinely ||the thing that must happen right before the shattering||

[dusty kraken]

||I think as a god of compassion they'd treat the symptoms but not the causes as they no longer have the empathy to comprehend truly why people are sad.||

[proven cloak]

I think as a whole the game's not just against their age of compassion, but godhood as solving problems in general

[warped quest]

nah i was thinking code vien

[proven cloak]

Marika also tried to make a wonderful sounding age of life eternal: we got the Lands Between

😬

[modest berry]

i agree this is in line with souls games in general id say

[covert schooner]

||because Marika gets her revenge and only then realizes that she’s just a slave again. Everyone asks why she breaks the elden ring, and I think it’s because she realizes it wasn’t worth it||

[proven cloak]

its very DS2

no matter what you do, your works will turn to ash

[frozen olive]

||Marika wins and it only cost her everything||

[proven cloak]

Gods are cursed to be eternal, and see it fall apart

[frozen olive]

||Same way as Miquella very nearly wins at the cost of again, basically everything||

[gray leaf]

||I think it wasn't just about being "worth it"; it's that being an empyrean is a prison, and godhood is locking the door, and the only way out is to break something, and both Marika and Ranni did just that, and in both cases the consequences for everyone else were disastrous.||

[covert schooner]

||I think casting aside the land of shadow isn’t a punishment, a banishment, but a moment of immense shame. The realization that she’s just the Hornsent again.||

[proven cloak]

I like that read

[modest berry]

||in contrast to the potential gentle prison of miquella, a true brutal clear dark night (get it) of the soul that after which truth can be found ||

[gray leaf]

||I think it might be both? It's an attempt to bury her shame... and, with it, all those who are part of it. It's revisionism writ large.||

[atomic plinth]

...is there any way to make the dodge input base itself on press and not release

[frozen olive]

||which is why i love Ranni, girlboss moment||

[covert schooner]

The dlc implies that this is what it was ALL for

The whole time

[covert schooner]

||she only founded the golden order to gain the power to kill her abusers. And then when it happens, she suddenly understands that nothing has changed. The world is no different, no better for her having done this.||

[frozen olive]

||She just perpetuated the cycle of suffering and became the cause instead of the one suffering||

[grave plinth]

||her entire empire nothing more than a vehicle of revenge against the hornsent, whose tower was ironically the instrument of her own apotheosis||

[proven cloak]

Its worth noting that ||the one statue of Marika that looks happy, at all is the one where she's just a mother, and not a God||

[covert schooner]

Which.

[covert schooner]

Casts an EXTREMELY dour light on the endings where you bring her back

[proven cloak]

||having the be what the world revolves around kind of sucks, turns out||

[covert schooner]

And become elden lord

[grave plinth]

||Shame she threw that away too||

||Given how Messmer was treated||

[proven cloak]

and ||the fingers who guided her just were seeking a surrogate mother of their own||

[grave plinth]

||of course it could also be an idealized depiction that Messmer commissioned for his own benefit||

[covert schooner]

I think it’s also really interesting that Rykard, Dung Eater, and Shabriri all continue this cycle

All of them take their suffering and only manages to externalize it into more suffering

[gray leaf]

||We all assume the Age of the Stars would be better, but that's not guaranteed either. Removing the influence of outer gods and external forces is almost certainly a good idea... but the whole thing could equally be read as "I will give humanity the freedom to decide their own fates, separate from outside influences" and "I wish to escape the role written for me, and so I'm going to leave, and abandon the people who I was meant to shepherd and guide".||

[covert schooner]

I mean I think that’s part of the point

[grave plinth]

||because as far as we can tell Messmer was forced to figuratively eat shit since childhood||

[covert schooner]

In both goldmasks and Ranni’s endings you kind of just

[proven cloak]

tbh ||I dont think she removes the Outer Gods||

[covert schooner]

Take your hands off the wheel

[frozen olive]

||I assume that the Age of Stars would have the possibility of improvement||

[covert schooner]

And they’re arguably the most hopeful

[fleet bronze]

Well they're all seeking just to break everything on purpose. Like Dungeater explicitly just wants to make everything terrible for everyone, there's not even an attempt at a solution. There's no version of the Dungeater ending that would make him unhappy, I think

[covert schooner]

The age of stars might lead to the death of all things

[proven cloak]

but given the dlc, I do trust Ranni a bit more, at least

[covert schooner]

But it will be mankind’s death

[mighty warren]

Any suggestions for ash of wars for sword lance? im still sorta shopping around to find one i click with

[covert schooner]

Not a death brought by a god, or a being beyond our Ken

[frozen olive]

i already trusted Ranni implicitly and the dlc did not shake my belief

[fleet bronze]

Flamespear is very, very good

[grave plinth]

fond of Giant Hunt

[proven cloak]

his solution is very much....
it reads like irony to me

he's showing the flaws in the Order in the most visceral way possible

[covert schooner]

Miyazaki’s games have this very interesting theme that you cannot try to shake the possibility of failure

[proven cloak]

"look how arbitrary the persecution is!"

[mighty warren]

Hm
dont personally click with giant hunt, no offense, but i did like flame spear when i tried it on the fire knight GS

[covert schooner]

Fear of losing everything only leads to failure

[grave plinth]

Piercing Fang is fun

[frozen olive]

there are no guarantees with the Age of Stars

[mighty warren]

Another friend of mine suggested blood tax so i was gonna check that out, then ill hit the list you all have given me

[frozen olive]

but it is also the most hopeful

[proven cloak]

Whatever age happens next, it won't last forever

Stars or Dung or otherwise

[gray leaf]

Dung Eater feels like a spiteful attempt to Matter. Just to, in some way, lash out and hurt the world because at least the scars would be visible. He's exercising the only agency he has.

[proven cloak]

well

[frozen olive]

and thus, even if it is not the best, you tried, and it will not last forever

[proven cloak]

Frenzy might!

[gray leaf]

I might be wrong, though.

[grave plinth]

"One Day, Tiny Flames will Dance Across the Darkness"

[covert schooner]

Gwyn destroys everything because he’s scared that the dark will be the end
Genichiro can’t allow Asshina to fall, can’t allow the divine blood to stop influencing mankind
it’s a really interesting running theme of a kind of anarchism

[proven cloak]

Frenzy is the only ending where straight up the Elden Ring is destroyed

[frail sky]

Huh, at 80 int the carian sorcery sword has 291 sorcery scaling
That’s honestly not that bad, a 292 seal got me through a lot of the dlc

[gray leaf]

Frenzy is just... destroying it all. It's not even lashing out; it's just getting rid of the whole thing entirely. It's a very nihilistic approach; "the world is so irrevocably flawed that it must all become ash".

[covert schooner]

Absolutely

[frozen olive]

Frenzy is complete and total destruction

nothing remains

[covert schooner]

Even through he’s pretty much the most evil character in… uh, probably the whole franchise

[grave plinth]

how does Armored Core fit into this paradigm

[frozen olive]

nothing will come from it

it's complete and permanent annihilation

[covert schooner]

AC6 is about fear of losing control as well

It’s “linking the flame” ending is literally about committing genocide because you’re scared that things will spiral out of control

[frozen olive]

yeah

[grave plinth]

arguably after however many eons the One Great will again splinter into multiplicity and create a new cosmos, but it won't be the same cosmos

[frozen olive]

potentially

[covert schooner]

In a weird way AC4 also has hints of this

[frozen olive]

but the intent is

complete ruination

[covert schooner]

For answers darkest ending is about doing something horrible just to make yourself matter

[frozen olive]

there is no "burn it to make space for new thins"

[grave plinth]

burn the universe down to the bedrock

[frozen olive]

it's just

destroy

[frail sky]

The Big Bang… two!

[proven cloak]

I do love how its portrayed as merciful though

[frozen olive]

scour existence

[proven cloak]

its not just "destroy everything because evil"

[frozen olive]

leave nothing standing

[covert schooner]

Frenzy is kinda thematically like

A response to dark souls

In which ending it all IS moral

[frozen olive]

how?

[covert schooner]

But this world isn’t dead yet

[proven cloak]

its the pain of life being too much to bear, of suffering being too much

[covert schooner]

It’s not doomed

[frozen olive]

Frenzy is not mercy, it doesn't care

[covert schooner]

Life goes on. Births continue

[kind garden]

the purpose of frenzy, thematically, is that it's the death drive

[frozen olive]

it just wants there to be nothing

[covert schooner]

Well, the frenzy FACTION is merciful

[kind garden]

when people can't bear the suffering anymore, they want to cease existing

[frozen olive]

i can see that i suppose

[covert schooner]

In the sense that Shabriri wants to wipe the slate clean as a mercy to all who exist

[frozen olive]

but Frenzy itself is not mercy

[mighty warren]

Ive my own reads on frenzy but after last time its likely better i keep such to myself

[glossy delta]

AC6 is about the world being on the top of a slope into a New Paradigm and everyone trying to figure out what to do about that, yeah
The world redefining event there being ||coral spreading throughout known space, beyond Rubicon||

[covert schooner]

Oh I mean yeah

[kind garden]

it's why there is no Lord of Frenzied Flame strong enough prior to you

[frozen olive]

it only wants the nothingness and that's it

[proven cloak]

Both the Three Fingers and Hyetta claim it as a balm against the suffering brought by existence / individuality, and its items often work as painkillers:
Grown in lands afflicted by frenzy, it's used for its pain-relieving properties... Though it's also known to be a dangerous intoxicant.
The flame of frenzy burns the eyes, but tranquility follows in its wake. May this pot bring salvation to those it strikes.

it absolves pain

[grave plinth]

Frenzy is what you get when the only path that the powers that be present you is "Surrender and Die" rather than "Surrender or Die"

[frozen olive]

people can ascribe their own mercy to it but The Flame of Frenzay wants the monad

[proven cloak]

(by destroying everything, yeah, but)

[frozen olive]

and that's all it wants

[kind garden]

well yeah it's like

[covert schooner]

I think that Melina’s speech in the tomb, right before you talk to the flame of frenzy, is maybe one of Fromsoft’s most poignant lines of dialogue

[kind garden]

this is why people succumb to the death drive, you know?

[frail sky]

Everything in existence will suffer, why not prevent that suffering by burning it all away?

[gray leaf]

As I understand it, it's just entropy, more or less. The ultimate erasure of all order and organization and being.

[covert schooner]

Literally begging you not to end things just because shit is bad for you

[frozen olive]

basically yeah

[proven cloak]

||Midra only becomes Lord after the suffering grows too great, and he rips off his own head. It hurts like hell for a second.... and then it hurts never again||

||I love how fluid and peacefully he moves afterwards, almost floating through the arena.||

[covert schooner]

I think now we can reasonably say that ||the three fingers ARE a child of metyr, who found a god that was real when their own was silent||

[kind garden]

it's the death spiral, the wolf-at-the-door of consciousness that encroaches as the pain mounts that offers seductive release

[grave plinth]

Because if you're destined to be heaven's whipping boy no matter what you do, why not burn down the universe that's built on your degradation

[proven cloak]

dont get me wrong, its not a good thing

[covert schooner]

Yeah frenzy is the release of death

Everything we see up until the point of death

The flame, the madness

[proven cloak]

but its more interesting as magical-trauma than most world-destroying forces get

[covert schooner]

Is I think more emblematic of like

[gray leaf]

It also saves Melina, at the cost of everyone and everything else, which she explicitly and unambiguously does not want.

[covert schooner]

Sinking into your own suffering

[frozen olive]

i feel like any positivity ascribed to Frenzy is incidental, insofar as it just kinda does that to humans, but it's not intentional

[covert schooner]

Oh no for sure

But humans are using it in a way that they perceive as positive

To be clear, mercy is not a good thing in this case

[frozen olive]

it might help, but it doesn't want it, it's just how it happens to work

[gray leaf]

I feel like it's pain and revenge and release and amoral entropy all sort of rolled up into one.

[kind garden]

Melina's so funny

[grave plinth]

I think the Frenzy is a natural outgrowth of the way the Powers That Be have set things up

a reaction to the fact that the "Perfect Order" cannot actually resolve its own contradictions

[kind garden]

because she does NOT want to be saved and gamers are absolute suckers for saving people they're attached to, no matter how much they're told not to

[grave plinth]

First it was the Hornsent, then it was Marika

[covert schooner]

I think the Melina abandoning you even if you use the needle is a nice touch

[grave plinth]

When people have nothing to turn to, they turn to the Frenzied Flame

[covert schooner]

Because you’ve shown you’re willing to do horrible things

[kind garden]

We've all got that Shirou Emiya dawg in us

[covert schooner]

You had no idea if that would work

And if it didn’t, you would have doomed all existence

[frozen olive]

yeah

[covert schooner]

I think she’s well within her right to be like “you’re a monster”

[kind garden]

absolute worst monarch

"willing to risk all of creation on sentiment"

not a fucking endorsement

[proven cloak]

frenzied cutscene still hits so hard with the lack of voiceover

just the sound of the fire

[covert schooner]

Also given some stuff we have had implied about Melina

[frozen olive]

me when i am positively the worst

[covert schooner]

Especially with the dlc

[mighty warren]

Wait blood tax heals? thats rad

[kind garden]

yeah blood tax is actually great

[grave plinth]

I'm coping against all reason that there's a second DLC where we find Melina in the Underworld and get to find out what her deal is

[warped quest]

yeah and its a kinda ok ammount

[frail sky]

Honestly it sounds like the fire is screaming

[grave plinth]

Black Flame Ending Black Flame Ending

[frozen olive]

the problem for me with Melina is

[kind garden]

another wildly underrated weapon skill is Prayerful Strike

[frozen olive]

i can't stop thinking about my seamless playthrough with one of my best friends

[kind garden]

which will just full heal you, and is also an attack, what the fuck?

[covert schooner]

||she absolutely does not want to survive this, in the sense that it’s pretty heavily implied that she was probably killed before events of even Marika’s true rise to godhood||

[proven cloak]

exactly!
Does it ||in Midra's cutscene too||

[frozen olive]

where i got cucked at the giantsflame crucible

and had to watch her and my friend do a double suicide in the flame

[covert schooner]

||and might have even been cast aside by Marika as a sacrifice to godhood||

[frozen olive]

i can't stop thinking about it whenever i think of Melina

[kind garden]

||pushing my friend's niche theory that Melina was the Gloam-Eyed Queen prior, rebelled against Marika and the Golden Order, and was defeated and burned for her treachery||

[frozen olive]

my most girlfailure moment in Elden Ring

[mighty warren]

Apparently its 30% per target hit

[grave plinth]

||One last miko for sacrifice eh||

[kind garden]

you can glitch this out with certain weapons

[covert schooner]

Both are valid reads, especially since a lot surrounding her is vague

[kind garden]

and get 100% per 1 guy who you absolutely flatten

[mighty warren]

Ehhhhh
no offense i dont like using a glitch to make something more effective

[covert schooner]

But either one of those is the only reasons I can imagine for Melina being like

In the same vein as Mesmer

[kind garden]

nah it's just a wild thing you CAN technically do

[mighty warren]

well, intentionally using i should say

[frozen olive]

new dlc lore implies she ||is Marikas kid and Messmers sister|| so honestly shits wack

[covert schooner]

In terms of being wiped from history

[mighty warren]

i will say its tempting, the holy scaling would be nice to have on my sword lance due to my 45 faith

but that looks so slow

[covert schooner]

||for me it implies a very deep shame from Marika one way or another towards whatever happened to her||

[frozen olive]

mhm

which tracks

[kind garden]

you walk up slowly on an unaware enemy

[frozen olive]

very much so

[kind garden]

and just

knock their fucking block off

it's mad funny

[covert schooner]

I could see her being ||the last shaman that left Marika all alone||

[mighty warren]

Well im mainly shopping for a boss fight is the thing

[kind garden]

ahh

[mighty warren]

Yeah thats why blood tax caught my eye with how fast it is too

[kind garden]

which boss

[mighty warren]

|| Consort.||

[grave plinth]

||Personally I think Marika is no longer capable of viewing her offspring as anything more than tools or sacrifices||

[kind garden]

try parry

[mighty warren]

Not my style

[kind garden]

it will be

[mighty warren]

No, it wont be

ill do it my way, like every other boss

[grave plinth]

||Her breaking the Elden Ring was like, a moment of personal clarity but she still told the rest of the demigods to "be great or be firewood"||

[covert schooner]

Man Mesmer makes me really sad
||it’s crazy that literally his final line of dialogue is the most revealing thing about him||

[mighty warren]

|| protect the earth or become the soil that nurtures it ass statement||

[glossy delta]

🫡
I too boldly say 'fuck that' to learning parries

[kind garden]

I only say this because like

shit's fucking ridiculous.

[mighty warren]

Its mostly just cause i exist solely off of greatshields

and my erdtree seal

[grave plinth]

||I suscribe to the theory that she orchestrated the Shattering with Godwyn's assassination so I 100% believe she was willing to sell them all in exchange for her personal release||

[kind garden]

oh if you have a greatshield you're cooking

[mighty warren]

Oh trust me i know ive been cooking

[kind garden]

I suggest Impenetrable Thorns

because I did that

[mighty warren]

Sorcery, no can do

[kind garden]

and it was funny

it's a 15 FAI sorcery!

[covert schooner]

I absolutely think she did yeah

[mighty warren]

Wait is it faith? lemme check i thought it was just int cause sorcery

[glossy delta]

Shieldpokes are an evergreen strat
I used status cheese and black flame

[covert schooner]

||But I think it was when she kinda…. Already was broken mentally and emotionall||

[kind garden]

nahh it's one of the silly ones

wait, it's a 24 FAI sorcery

lmao.

[proven cloak]

starting to lean this way more after DLC

[kind garden]

that's actually crazy

[proven cloak]

but its still a big ???

[mighty warren]

24 faith but i still clear that requirement

45 faith as said

[kind garden]

you just crank that souljaboy with the Staff of the Guilty

it's actually very silly

[mighty warren]

Staff of the guilty, got it, will hunt it down

[kind garden]

giant's mountaintops, fire heretics that have the staff drop it

[grave plinth]

||For one, all of them except maybe Messmer and Melina are from cynical political marriages and were essentially tools of statehood. Messmer, meanwhile, being probably illegitimate and also a Snake Monster, was a PR liability||

[kind garden]

it's the faith-only staff

[grave plinth]

||Its possible Melina was concieved explicitly to be burned||

[covert schooner]

Pretty much said as much yeah

[mighty warren]

Does mean i have to juggle my shield, seal, sword land, and staff with the setup

[kind garden]

true but I got around that by assigning my staff to my sword hand

[covert schooner]

||Messmer probably would have been fine if Marika had actually tried to integrate him into society which is his big tragedy imo||

[warped quest]

some of the dlc quest lines are just stupid

[kind garden]

which made it make sense for me ig

[mighty warren]

Ironically thats exactly what i was gonna do

alright farming time

[warped quest]

it feels like they brought back the ds3 quest person on some of these

[grave plinth]

||Yeah, the man is by all accounts a prodigy and a social butterfly when he's not wearing the war criminal mask||

[mighty warren]

|| only quest ive taken issue with was thioller's, like the guy but fuck me how many times do i need to drug myself?||

[warped quest]

id say most of them are aweful

[mighty warren]

ehhh

Loved more of them than i disliked

[covert schooner]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[mighty warren]

i would say i disliked freyja's but i didnt
really get to finish it cause i finished ansbach's too fast

[grave plinth]

||I wonder if part of the reason why Marika shunts Messmer to the Land of Shadow is because she thought he'd pretty much handily win the Shattering||

[covert schooner]

Maybe yeah

[warped quest]

i think i may have

failed every quest in the dlc

what garbage

[vivid spire]

How?!

[warped quest]

cause the game is aweful about quests thats how

i gave acnash his letter and hes just gone

no summon sign that supposedly exists?

no leda, no hornsent

freya is stuck upstaris

[frozen olive]

Rough luck

I managed almost all of the quests fully on first playthrough just going through it blind

[warped quest]

i apprently commitedf the high crime of walking though the wrong door

maybe at least anash is fine

ok hornsent is in messmers room so maybe im fine

[mighty warren]

I will give a heads up, || if you gave ansbach the scroll already, freyja's quest is functionally failed as he wont show back up for a part of her quest||

Same thing happened to me

[warped quest]

if thats the only one that ends up broken long term im fine with that

what all needs to be done before messmer

[mighty warren]

|| Her gear will be in the room she's in later on in the dlc, so you dont miss much, as for stuff pre messmer you should be fine if hornset is summonable, you just have to summon him for the fight and talk to him after for his quest, also make sure to chat with leda again after finishing his stuff||

|| your "point of no return" for quests, besides freyja's, is going too far in the last zone, namely taking part in a fight you are summoned for in a room full of sand, you can step in and do shit from everything ive heard but if you fight thats it||

|| thats the best heads up i can give as to when your last chance to do quests is without spoiling||

[warped quest]

||based on looking stuff up i think moore and thailor is done, anash and horsente seem to be in the air||

[mighty warren]

|| Ansbach is on hold for the moment till you wrap up hornsent's, hornsent's ends after messmer, mostly, regardless of summoning or not||

[warped quest]

also can we just talk about how stupid in bossfight summons are outside of radhanns fight

[mighty warren]

Shrug.

[warped quest]

why does it default to no

[kind garden]

I liked it in Igon's case because it means he has dialogue...

[mighty warren]

CURSE YOU BAYLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[kind garden]

BAAAAAYLE

[real shadow]

In-arena summons don't incur the same penalties summon signs outside the fog wall incur.

[warped quest]

im talking about the selection defalting to no now everytime you summon them while trying to not die

it should default to yes

[languid tiger]

yeah that's my real fucking grievance with em

it should not default to no

otherwise it's fine

[warped quest]

||do they need to survive the fight hornsent that is||

[kind garden]

nah

[warped quest]

want to know one of the wierdest side effects of my control scheme keyboard and mouse

you know how if you mash buttons during a grab you take less damage

in ds3 this did not work at all on keyboard and mouse, and in elden ring it only works with the mouse

[languid tiger]

I got two copies of the gear, by the way

when I picked it up after ||giving ansbach the scroll first and breaking her questline||

I haven't done the quests in any further runs so idk how replicable that bug is

but it was interesting

[warped quest]

is there a good way to fight the horned warroirs

[languid tiger]

they have no great response to throwing bricks at their head

(comet or stone of gurranq)

[warped quest]

highest magic skills is 30 faith

[languid tiger]

and I think colossal weapons pancake them sufficiently

[warped quest]

ive got 40 mind mostly for weapon arts

[languid tiger]

or you could spam gravity bolt

from the falling star jaw

I assume that's still somewhat effective

uhhh

they can also be parried

and, like many enemies, are weak to (good) guard counters

[warped quest]

what are they weak/strong to

[dusty kraken]

They are weak to holy iirc

[warped quest]

the tree sniper might work then

[languid tiger]

they die to a lot

[dusty kraken]

They also do a pretty low blocking stamina loss.

[languid tiger]

sorry?

[dusty kraken]

So you can legimately just tank the hits, guard counter and after 2-3 guard counters they'll be poise broken.

[languid tiger]

I'm struggling to parse that one

ahh, yeah

I think I mentioned guard counters

their combos are, surprisingly for people so big

but unsurprisingly for dual-wielders

pretty unthreatening on your stamina

and there's usually a decisive opening between combos

they're very intimidating-looking, but get fucked by a lot

[dusty kraken]

I tend to just Holy Frisbee them.

They're big enough I basicly always get the double hit.

And it's both fast and long range

[languid tiger]

yeah

[stone cove]

Milady can jump some of their attacks with wing stance and then gut them. Backhand blades will fuck then up with Blindspot

Savage Claws can pop them like obscene balloons and it's hit box deplacement is wild

[potent perch]

(multiple images)
https://www.tumblr.com/feukt-42/754273327678423040/just-found-this-new-dialogue-in-ledas-questline?source=share

[mighty warren]

I might switch to a dex focus...
|| Dual wielding leda's sword and milady kinda fun||

[gray leaf]

(this is a shitpost, for anyone who doesn't want to scroll all the way through/wrestle tumblr)

[atomic plinth]

Oh hey, apparently the Steam version of ER comes with a little digital guidebook

That's fun

[atomic marsh]

Hey you know what I just noticed about the intro cutscene to Elden Ring

https://i.imgur.com/GBFvAm7.png

Radahn already looks fucked up and evil

before he was fucked up

why he do that

[old brook]

I kind of thought it was the effect of Gravity Magic, making him Alabaster Lord-esque

[atomic marsh]

but knowing what we now know

[atomic plinth]

Ditto, that much exposure to magic cannot leave a person unchanged

We already saw people slowly turning into glintstones from using sorceries

[glossy delta]

I'm honestly willing to blame that on how early in dev that was made
That thingy with malenia and radahn was like the first thing we ever saw of elden ring

[atomic plinth]

That and he was probably Not Doing Good

[old brook]

this too

[languid tiger]

that could also be it

[atomic plinth]

Dude looks fucking TIRED

He looks like he's been on his feet for months without a break

[old brook]

Being 30 ft tall probably also just sort of

sucks

[languid tiger]

my man looks like he just got off a twelve-hour shift at the ball crushing factory

[atomic plinth]

Aye

[gray leaf]

speaking of which, did I share my Radahn theory which is basically this?

[languid tiger]

?

[atomic plinth]

I don't recall, do share it again

[gray leaf]

So, when we see Radahn, the scarlet rot has taken away his feet and he's walking around on like... little gravity hover pads.

[languid tiger]

i don't think he's walking at all, is he?

doesn't he mostly just fucking yeet himself

[gray leaf]

In the DLC, we learn that ||he studied alongside, and traded spells with, Gaius. And since Gaius is an albinauric, gravity magic that lets you walk around when you don't have feet would, in fact, be a highly relevant thing for him to learn.||

[languid tiger]

when he's not on leonard?

[gray leaf]

Kind of, yeah, but he sometimes like... takes a step, or braces himself.

[languid tiger]

oh huh, that is a neat detail!

[glossy delta]

He is riding on Leonard for the most part yeah
Which is a ridiculous statement but the animations do seem to imply all hes doing is keeping himself up while leonard drags them around
Like a roomba with a bunch of baloons tied to it

[gray leaf]

Yeah but I feel like there's moments where he like... stomps Leonard into the ground for a single attack, and then swings his sword as though he was standing braced on the ground? Something like that? Leonard is doing most of the work for getting him around, though.

[frail sky]

Update: I’ve used it for a bit and man I do I not like
It kinda feels like a normal staff but worse, like it has R1s and stuff but every time I use them I just think “I could just be using this to cast carian slicer instead”

[gray leaf]

He doesn't walk around per se, but he moves as though he has feet.

[old brook]

He does also stomp the hell outta you

[languid tiger]

rip

[languid tiger]

i really do want a weapon that's got R1s + carian slicer as mixups

[atomic plinth]

Aye, it's a cool concept but it would've served Loretta's War Sickle better

[languid tiger]

but the sorcery sword weren't it

loretta's sickle would've fucked

i just want more fucked up catalysts

like

make Rosus's Axe a death sorcery catalyst

[gray leaf]

I have thought of Exactly One use case for the sorcery sword: you have the Golden Order seal in the other hand, a bunch of int-based incantations, and then one sorcery which doesn't scale such as Miriam's Vanishing (possibly others, but I can't think of any good equivalents).

[languid tiger]

with its L1 while 2h or its r2 or something

[glossy stag]

Did From ever added any poise to ||Poleblade of the Bud's weapon art||?

[frail sky]

Honestly my biggest issue with it is that it’s a thrusting sword, it’s moveset just doesn’t really feel like it adds anything useful

[languid tiger]

it's only been one patch

and no

[glossy stag]

I see, I see. Wasn't keeping up if there were any more .

it needs it tho

[old brook]

||Carian Sovereignty|| adds an absolutely comical amount of poise, seems

[languid tiger]

it absolutely does need it, yeah

[atomic plinth]

hough

Ourple,,,

[gray leaf]

yeah, they kind of put every possible disadvantage in its path.

[frail sky]

Kinda wish it had its l2 replaced instead tbh

[glossy delta]

Sorcery sword does have SOME neat stuff
Like you can have scholars shield slotted and put it on whenever you want without futzing with your staff
Or just having your shield, your weapon, and your catalyst all on at the same time

[languid tiger]

god

death ritual spear but as a staff hybrid

[glossy stag]

Jumping attack on thrusting swords just misses some enemies when you are locked on

[languid tiger]

gimme like

[glossy stag]

and it's sad

[languid tiger]

the light greatsword moveset

on the death ritual spear

and make its L2 cast a spell instead

and then gimme its ash of war as a hex

[glossy delta]

Also something about being able to hotswap 'heavies' by using the carian sword sorceries + gavel greatly appeals
GOD
IF THE SORCERY SWORD WAS A LGS THAT WOULD BE HYPE
I know you are talking about the ritual spear but
Sorcery Sword already kinda looks like one

[languid tiger]

i just want the LGS moveset on a non-LGS

[tropic stream]

This reminds me my current spellsword build is the star-lined in my main hand and the sorc sword in my off

[frail sky]

Only if its casting was on the l2 though, LGS use their r2s a lot

[languid tiger]

ye

but gimme that on the death ritual spear :(

[glossy delta]

That's admittedly true
I don't think it would be ruinous without the R2s but it def would be sad

[languid tiger]

poke poke smack

[atomic plinth]

Dunno, light greatswords are reliant on chaining light and heavy attacks

[languid tiger]

l2 cast some death hexes

and also on the magma whip

[atomic plinth]

I'd happily take spellcasting as its AoW though

[gray leaf]

exactly my thought process; it looked like a cool light greatsword but at the same time it couldnt be.

[glossy delta]

Yeah that would have been cool, certainly
We would not miss uhh
Impaling Thrust

[atomic plinth]

Agreed lmao

[languid tiger]

wing stance is pretty strong

[grave plinth]

The battle of Caelid was probably horrific even before Malenia used the Rot

the Redmanes are still around but there's like no surviving Haligtree knights, men-at-arms, or footsoldiers in Caelid. Only Commander Niall, and the Cleanrot Knights, who are only debatably "surviving" as mindless extensions of the Swamp of Aeonia

[gray leaf]

And spellcasting as an Art of War would admittedly be kind of weird in a few ways, even if there's not a code issue, simply due to how it interacts with main versus off-hand stuff.

[atomic plinth]

Aye, aye

War in and of itself is bad enough

[old brook]

War is wrong, the correct method is a solo vengeance quest of some variety

[gray leaf]

I wish it was infusable, though.

[atomic plinth]

I can't imagine how bad it'd be fighting Malenia and her forces

[languid tiger]

god

this is actually like

cementing my desire to have a dedicated Spell Button

[old brook]

the sheer number of Rings of Light

[atomic plinth]

shudders

[languid tiger]

no pure casting implements

only hybrids

[grave plinth]

I actually wouldn't be surprised if it was a slaughter that favored the Redmanes

Miquella's troops are desperate fanatics held together by a personality cult, not career soldiers

[languid tiger]

they get a magic button

purely martial shit gets like

extra ashes of war

[atomic plinth]

True

[languid tiger]

or maybe all the pure martials get a unique AoW and a customizable AoW

[old brook]

there's a reason Malenia's Never Known Defeat, her and her Cleanrots absolutely stomped across the continent up until Radahn

[grave plinth]

yeah but her army is like designed to take attrition

the Cleanrots are not sound of body and they get worse the longer they're deployed

[left willow]

[Question for Shortly Post Shadowkeep Boss]
||What Spirits did people find helpful into Gaius? He just tears up my typical 2 (Yosh and Lhutel) and I don't quite have enough spacing to recover after he does.||

[languid tiger]

i used none

spirits sound like absolute hell for him

[grave plinth]

Again, no surviving footsoldiers or haligtree knights from her army are in Caelid

[languid tiger]

because they'll make the AI for dodging super wack

i mostly coped on that as a jolly co-operator by throwing on shabriri's woe

[frail sky]

Mimic tear for me, but I was also using maliketh’s sword and it loved using that aow

[old brook]

I mean it's kind of a miracle there's survivors in Caelid at all

[grave plinth]

which means they either all died in the Aeonia blossom, which is unlikely because she didn't manage to kill all the Redmanes from it, or the Redmanes were inflicting heavy losses (likely at great loss to themselves)

[old brook]

Castle Redmane was blessed by like.. Being Far AWay

[grave plinth]

Miquella's footsoldiers are also fanatical enough to kill themselves to get at you by the time you get to the Haligtree. That's a new development but I think it represents the type of army Malenia was leading

[old brook]

But that sure is a lot of their spears in Radahn, war is bad for everyone. Wild that Rykard made it worse somehow

The exploding is a new factor I believe

[grave plinth]

Which is an army that itself is pretty horrific to fight and probably weighed really heavily on Radahn

[old brook]

||They're trying to use their deaths as beacons for Miquella to return from the lands of shadow||

[stone cove]

We know Great Runes fuck people up too

Re: Radhan.

[old brook]

I have to imagine Malenia personally sort of

[grave plinth]

its an army that's a bunch of desperate disadvantaged people, people that Radahn likely felt sympathy for, suicidally throwing themselves at him and his own forces

[old brook]

carved a path

[frail sky]

Did she have Miq’s forces with her? I thought it was just the cleanrots

[old brook]

those are just her Elite Knights, it's a whole big army

[left willow]

Has anyone used the Gravebird spirit?

[grave plinth]

its possible it was just the cleanrots, its possible the cleanrots are the only survivors by dint of being turned into rot zombies

[stone cove]

Replying to this properly: Great Runes are a corruptive influence

[old brook]

There's a gravebird spirit?

[left willow]

If yes, what do you think?

[old brook]

ohh right the smaller variety

i was thinking Deathbird

[stone cove]

You can mostly clearly see it with what Morgott looks like normally vs what he looks like in the Godfrey cutscene

[grave plinth]

I think Radahn was exhausted and pissed that Malenia and Miquella were willing to send people they ought to have been protecting into a meat grinder

[stone cove]

But also in general runes just seem to do .. weird shit to you if have enough of enough power

[old brook]

Radahn's also very Pro War so who tf knows how he was feeling

[stone cove]

And the Gravity magic + "I stopped the stars" shit probably also added to taking a toll

[old brook]

70% of his FP bar just dedicated to Space Bullshit

[grave plinth]

There's being Pro War, and being willing to sign off on using leprosy victims as shock troops

everything everybody says about Radahn indicates he was extremely open-minded and compassionate to disadvantaged folks

[old brook]

They also say that about Miquella, like I said, I don't think he was making people explode

[vivid spire]

Malenia is my delightful wife

[old brook]

I think that's the 'OUR LORD IS GONE' desperation move

[vivid spire]

She had issues but like

I can fix her

(CLUELESS)

[old brook]

one more bloom'll do it

[grave plinth]

he didn't have to make them explode, he just made them fanatical enough to throw themselves at what was probably the most heavily fortified region outside of Leyndell

[vivid spire]

My hearcannon is that she’ll bloom again in the future

[glossy stag]

Do we?

[vivid spire]

Given that fragments can drive demigods mad yes

[grave plinth]

Anybody fighting the Redmanes in their prime is going to take horrific casualties

[glossy stag]

Who was driven mad by a great rune?

[vivid spire]

It’s in the intro

The fragments of the shattered Elden Ring drive the demigods into a frenzy of violence against each other

[glossy stag]

I didn't really took intro as them literally going mad.

[old brook]

I just have a hard time with folks being so Kind and Compassionate when shit like this is the norm

[glossy stag]

Sounded more like a scramble for the throne set up to me.

[grave plinth]

so if say, the haligtree army is so hopped up on fanaticism that it'll just throw itself at an immovable object, I think Radahn would both notice and be disturbed

[gray leaf]

Also... to complicate things, I have heard the argument that ||a death in battle was necessary to send Radahn's soul to the Land of Shadow, for whatever reason, and so that's part of why that happened||. But, even notwithstanding that...

[vivid spire]

This is interesting

Since my original headcannon was that ||Miquella was genuinely nice and good, I thought it was a sign he’d return to fix things. I never thought about what it could mean for the bad until now||

I always thought Radhan was the aggressor and while what happened to caelid was bad Malenia had no control over it

[kind garden]

||I think it’s worth noting that just because Miquella’s army is this way now, doesn’t mean they were always like this||

[gray leaf]

Regarding the explosions, the soldiers weren't necessarily fanatical:

Spirits of common soldiers who carry the sacred light. When weakened, they explode to deliver a last-ditch attack.
This was the bitter revelation discovered by the desperate soldiers who awaited the return of their lord to the rotted Haligtree.
Emphasis mine, but they did not know that they were going to explode.

[glossy delta]

I'm not sure if that's what's going on
Post defeat morgott is lacking all his omen horns and we know he was an omen before the shattering
So no great runes

[stone cove]

I do! One a big theme of the game is the corruption of power. Great runes appear to literally be Shards of the Elden Ring, and they were only claimed after the ring was shattered

At which point everything goes mad

[vivid spire]

https://youtu.be/KNNT_565Bok?si=qGB5sjjjXG1etA0n

[stone cove]

Yes, but he's dramatically smaller too. And there's a real runes = size = strength theme in the game

[kind garden]

Nah I’m pretty confident that the madness they’re talking about is the same as, like, piranhas going mad as blood is shed in water

[glossy stag]

A bit hard for me to see Radahn as agressor seeing that fighting is happening around Caelid and we know Malenia previously fought through Limgrave.

[kind garden]

Ie just losing yourself to opportunism and the chance to take what you want

[gray leaf]

I don't think it's literal corruption, just the desire for power.

[languid tiger]

https://youtu.be/l_kirozvUZQ?si=wn5OzHH6IBOudfJr

[kind garden]

Is it the madness that power brings? Sure, but not in the sense that having it turns you insane

[languid tiger]

this seems fun

[kind garden]

It’s just that, you know. Having power like that really warps your fucking priorities

[glossy stag]

"Emboldened by the flame of ambition."

[stone cove]

I mean, fair enough, but I think it's fairly literal too. It can be both!

[languid tiger]

solid updates to the first-person mod(s)

[stone cove]

I'm not going to dedicate too much energy to debating this, because one of my cats is peeing blood (we have been too the vets, he is doing okay, just a bad time with upset bowels) and I'm exhausted from long COVID

So genuinely: I appreciate the different perspectives! I just don't have the energy to dig through the game and source stuff to back my take right now

[grave plinth]

even if we discount the footsoldiers, the Cleanrot Knights are absolutely fanatics because they're people who should be in sickbeds that Malenia and Miquella have instead "inspired" to go on a campaign that will worsen their condition

the cleanrot lore spells it out that hey, being a Cleanrot Knight is basically knowingly condemning yourself to die

[gray leaf]

I thought that they were sick because they were near Malenia, and they decided to do that because doing so alleviated Malenia's own sickness. This would not be the only case of fanatical devotion.

In general across everywhere, I mean.

[kind garden]

Actually, question

[grave plinth]

either way, these are essentially suicide commandos

The Cleanrot Knights vowed to fight alongside Malenia, despite the inevitable, if gradual, putrefaction of their flesh. Their acceptance of their fate made these battles fiercest of all.

[kind garden]

Do we know strictly that the Cleanrot Knights started getting sick before Malenia’s campaign

It was only at Aeonia that she pulled the needle from her body and went full rot mode

[mighty warren]

god that was a blast, i joined some buds for seamless, proper 4 man party, and we got to gaius and dude was kicking us in cause of his 4x'd health

and then i switched to a greatshield and we first tried him after that cause i basically made it into a tank and spank

[grave plinth]

We don't know when it started but the name implies that they were showing symptoms long before Aeonia, and the items outright state that they knew they were dying as they fought alongside her

[kind garden]

Before then wouldn’t she be non-contagious

[vivid spire]

I mean

Good for them

[kind garden]

Oh also fun fact for everyone: the Scarlet Rot doesn’t just kill people, if you live and fight through, instead it turns you into a bug

[vivid spire]

Girlboss simps

[vivid spire]

Oh

[mighty warren]

also got a good shot with my friend

[grave plinth]

or a mushroom

[kind garden]

Happened to the Hornsent downstream of Rauh Ruins where the original Rot sample is

[grave plinth]

I'm not sure the Fly Plague is the same thing

[kind garden]

And the Cleanrot Knights have gossamer insect wings poking out their back armour

[frail sky]

Oh

[grave plinth]

the Cleanrot Knights are absolutely turning into bugs though