Elden Ring (DLC hype room)

[atomic plinth]

||Yeah THAT'S fucking cool||

[real shadow]

||I'm not the only one who heard a bit of KH in the music during phase 2, right||

[atomic plinth]

||Same for the orbital laser tbh, it doesn't really deal a whole hell of a lot of damage||

Should prolly invest in holyproof livers

[stone cove]

If you can cast it, Lord's Divine Fortifaction is stronger and lasts longer

[atomic plinth]

Oh? Handy, thanks Zombie.

[mighty warren]

some of those fortification incantations have saved my ass

Barrier of gold my beloved

[stone cove]

Correction.

Holyproof Dried Liver is 35% holy resist for 120 seconds. Lord's Divine forifcation is 60% Holy resist for 70 seconds.

So LDF is a signfianct upgrade in protection (25% less damage taken is pretty chunky) but at cost of being 50 seconds shorter.

and costing FP

Up to you which is bgetter

...Holyproof Pickled Liver is just worse.

for reaosns unclear

[frail sky]

wat

[obtuse halo]

so what happened here

is the old dried livers are 15% protection

except for the holy dried liver which is randomly 35%

the pickled livers are all 25%, including the holy one

[frail sky]

How strange

[stone cove]

Elden ring balancing is a wild ride.

[obtuse halo]

I genuinely think that one might be a mistake, but I'm not sure if it's the pickled or dried one that's a mistake

if it's the dried one, though, it's managed to survive a lot of patches

[stone cove]

I agree it's probably am istake it's just a bizzare one

[atomic plinth]

Do they not stack?

[stone cove]

They do not, they're body buffs

[stone cove]

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Buffs+and+Debuffs

You can have one buff in each category

for Temporary Buffs and Debuffs

[covert schooner]

I think the holy one might be like this because of How prevalent holy is

[stone cove]

The compelxityo f managing it all is why i tend to stick to "Golden Vow, plus a barrier or chowing down on a prawn"

[atomic plinth]

Right

[stone cove]

(that and the obnoxiously short duration on various buffs)

like FGS is so good, and also.. 30 seconds long

With a castspeed that's at least a couple of secondsi t feels like

With Old Lords Talisman it's a whopping... 39s. Yaaaay.

[old brook]

But it also; looks cool

Golden Vow is boring ok

[kind garden]

Spoilers: DLC Final Boss ||https://tenor.com/view/elden-ring-radahn-consort-of-miquella-sir-gideon-ofnir-tarnished-mimic-tear-gif-1145246765343527450||

[atomic plinth]

oh no

[obtuse halo]

Honestly it’d be pretty great if Gideon used a spirit summon

Really cement him as your most direct rival

[grave plinth]

Gideon wishes

[obtuse halo]

I mean, yes

I didn’t say a worthy rival 😛

[atomic plinth]

Side note, black knight helmet fits weirdly perfectly with Maliketh's set, it almost looks like it was designed to fit with it

[obtuse halo]

Yeah one of the issues with Malekith’s set was nothing else really matches it

The dlc really helped with that

[languid tiger]

oathseeker and bk outfits are real nice

they go so well with so much, and each other

[atomic plinth]

Aye, aye

[languid tiger]

just by being a low-profile black and gold set

[atomic plinth]

Really good for mixing and matching

[grave plinth]

If only the Oathseeker stuff had decent resistances

[modest berry]

i love maliketh hat with exile armor

[atomic plinth]

...also holy shit this thing's AR is monstrous

[languid tiger]

it is a colossal weapon

[modest berry]

budget nameless king

[languid tiger]

with four stat reqs

...mostly three

[grave plinth]

Honestly mostly two

int and dex are negligible values

[atomic plinth]

11 int and 10 dex is barely an asking price yeah

[obtuse halo]

11 int is at least a price

Every starting class except hero has 10 dex

[atomic plinth]

Yeah but it's like a 50 cent price

[obtuse halo]

(Hero has 9)

[atomic plinth]

It's barely anything

[languid tiger]

11 int is a v real price tbh

most builds don't want to waste points on it

it's only full caster fth builds, since those mostly want to pick up discus of light

that get it incidentally

[glossy delta]

I think the main issue is that a lot of people came into the DLC with builds that have All The Levels They're Likely To Get

[modest berry]

now you can wear a stat boost item too but its still a little annoying even that one point

[glossy delta]

I know on my arc character getting enough runes to put two levels in int was a real struggle

Cuz they were 200-something

[grave plinth]

What is Discus of Light’s use case anyway?

[glossy delta]

And like the latter half of that

[grave plinth]

Feels a lot like a weaker lightning spear

[kind garden]

ranged damage for extremely cheap

you can use it as your main attack on an INT/FAI build

[real shadow]

I went in with a primary str/fth secondary and there was whole swathes of weapons I couldn't use because whoops, no real dex/int/arc to speak of.

[grave plinth]

Ah so its glintstone pebble

[real shadow]

Which is fine, I expected as much.

[kind garden]

yeah except it cooks

[glossy delta]

Glintstone pebble cooks

[modest berry]

and theres many non leveling ways to boost the stat if you want to use a thing but if you want to level the weapon you might not want to wear an item or talisman or physik every time

[kind garden]

yeah but it costs a little more than twice as much FP

[languid tiger]

it's glintstone pebble but with 2x the damage at 3 fp

okay like

1.3x damage

[old brook]

And if they happen to be undead it makes them into vapor

[languid tiger]

it's really strong for how fast it is, and the cheapest spell in the game

[mighty warren]

Least the dlc comes with a gaggle of new larval tears
even if the spawn conditions arent clear

well its not that "unclear" its just

"nighttime"

[kind garden]

the locations sure as fuck aren't clear though

absolutely no indicator to come back at night

[mighty warren]

Oh absofuckin' lutely

but still, more larval tears is nice

its better than the alternative options
would still prefer a renewable source

[kind garden]

an endgame renewable Larval tear source would be ideal because that way it doesn't allow for the dumb extreme of just going back and respeccing every time you have trouble with a boss, but it also means we don't have to make new characters to try stuff

[mighty warren]

Also mild aside

||While midra is my favorite boss fight this dlc, scadutree's avatar has got to have my favorite music so far, i do NOT know what made me click with the track so hard ||

[obtuse halo]

discus of light cooks tbh

it has a bit of a hard time in the later parts of the basegame because the whole lategame is highly holy-resistant

but like, it slaughters in the dlc

where far fewer things resist holy appreciably

also if you're on an int/faith build, your best seal happens to boost it by 10%

[mighty warren]

Multilayered rings of light is my first experience with a "discus" like spell and oh god i love it

just throw a fuckin' saw blade at the guy

[real shadow]

Metal Man that shit.

[mighty warren]

This dlc as a whole has made me lean less on my shield and actually play with my incantations more, so thats been fun specially with some of the new stuff

knight's lightning spear my beloved

[obtuse halo]

kls is crazy

honestly it's wild that most of the spell's damage still goes off if you get staggered out of it

[mighty warren]

Im not sure how to express my own love of it but
i remember back in DS3 when i first tried out lightning spear i had a special love for it, then in ER i saw some of the phalanx spells in my first playthrough and something in my head made me think "hey wouldnt it be rad as hell if these combined in some way?"

and then i found KLS

Now i just need a shotgun crossbow and all my dreams will come true
heh

[languid tiger]

you missed the one in the dlc?

[obtuse halo]

I’ve got good news!

[atomic plinth]

There's a shotgun crossbow in the DLC?

[obtuse halo]

It’s squirreled away in a nook southeast of ||castle ensis||, a bit outside the camp

[atomic plinth]

Ohoho there is

I'm gonna go get it and load that mf up with explosive bolts

[obtuse halo]

You can pick it up without killing a single thing (aside from mohg)

[languid tiger]

and radahn

[obtuse halo]

Details

[atomic plinth]

Maybe a faceful of explosive buckshot will help me with ||Promised Consort||

[obtuse halo]

Also the killing required for the pureblood knight medal

[languid tiger]

technically that means none

you can just invade and die five times

and killing radahn progresses the quest to that

[obtuse halo]

I was thinking vyke but i guess that isn’t required either

[mighty warren]

wait what

OH
OH HELL YEAH

[obtuse halo]

See here

[languid tiger]

yeah you can just go to the chapel of anticipation

[mighty warren]

yeah just continued read

[languid tiger]

or uh

run past vyke

[mighty warren]

shotgun crossbow shotgun crossbow shotgun crossbow

[proven cloak]

it does crazy damage

afaik its faith scaling double-dips, so its closer to 2xD

[old brook]

They fixed the double scaling on Script weapons things just a monster

[languid tiger]

highest in the game iirc

[atomic plinth]

Seems like it

[mellow silo]

Anyone mind helping me mule a few things?

[languid tiger]

give me ten or so minutes to walk home, and if no one else has helped you I can then

[mellow silo]

o7

[languid tiger]

i'm around, if you still need some muling

[atomic plinth]

God, I am really looking forward to getting ||Obsidian Lamina||

[mellow silo]

Aye, I do

[atomic plinth]

Coolest looking scythe in the game

[mellow silo]

Church Of Elleh, code LANCER

[atomic plinth]

...shame it's locked behind the final boss of the DLC

[mellow silo]

Drop a Duelist Sign so we don't get interrupted

[languid tiger]

i still love the grave scythe

and halo scythe ngl

both hit my visual preferences hard

[languid tiger]

on me way, loading in

[mellow silo]

Halo Scythe carried my first playthrough

Amazingly fun weapon

[atomic plinth]

Grave scythe fucks, yeah

[chilly forum]

“It’s been a long day without you my friends”

[atomic plinth]

It's just the Lamina looks more refined

[languid tiger]

load times

[mellow silo]

Real pain

[languid tiger]

summon's up

realized i was Lancer no fullcaps, changed it to correct

2h sword talisman, 2h turtle talisman, drake knight gloves, fire knight hat, fire knight pants, perfumer shield

[mellow silo]

Sounds right

Switching to other account

[languid tiger]

no weapons needed?

[mellow silo]

I already have the right weapon (blood Milady)

[languid tiger]

gotcher

[mellow silo]

Ready

[languid tiger]

did i miss anything?

[mellow silo]

Lemme check

Yeah I got it all

[languid tiger]

sweet

[mellow silo]

Now I am Pureblood Knight

Ggs

[languid tiger]

have fun!

god i love dane's footwork

it's such a fucking cool moveset

even if i wish dryleaf whirlwind was better

[mellow silo]

Now all I need is Deflecting Hardtear and the build will be complete!

But that is tomorrow me's problem

[covert schooner]

Thankfully force palm is incredible

[gray leaf]

thought that was pokemon for a split second and almost did a double take.

[covert schooner]

Is Pokémon force palm really bad?

[modest berry]

its like,,, alright, 60 base power, 30 percent paralyze chance its just not much gets it

[atomic plinth]

Well

||That's the Promised Consort down||

||Thank god||

[obtuse halo]

Woooo!

[frail sky]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/688153809347674144.gif?size=96&quality=lossless

[atomic plinth]

||Wish I'd summoned Ansbach for it||

[modest berry]

i think it should have been one of the summon inside the arena ones that doesnt buff health since it adds so much

[atomic plinth]

...this really isn't a particularly great weapon, is it

At least it looks cool

[glossy delta]

It's a scythe, which ime are slightly more awkward halberds

[modest berry]

i like wielding it with the winged scythe i feel like a chunnibyo

my single black demon wing and my angel wing, i will defend you

also i finally found ornis hes so cool and tall

[glossy delta]

It's harder to fit it's skill into openings than dynasts finesse, which it's clearly supposed to be a play on

[modest berry]

i like the second part of the skill though

[slender loom]

Huh, final boss seems interesting so far. Haven’t made it to phase 2 yet, but it’s proving surprisingly tricky despite feeling like the combos’ timings are relatively easy to follow

[obtuse halo]

I really like phase 1

[atomic plinth]

Remember to dodge into him in phase 2

[obtuse halo]

feels very fair

[atomic plinth]

Phase 1 is really great yeah

Phase 2 is

Not so great

Just build for holy resistance

[obtuse halo]

Yeah if you don’t have golden braid slotted, slot it

It’s just the clear best-in-slot for the fight

[atomic plinth]

And holyproof livers

[obtuse halo]

holyproof dried liver is a good pickup if you aren't using competing body buffs, yeah.

though honestly I think using crab is fine for this fight

[atomic plinth]

||...honestly that's the biggest issue with phase 2 Promised Consort, the CONSTANT holy laser spam||

||That and the teleporting around but the lasers are a bigger issue in my opinion||

[languid tiger]

tbh ||the holy lasers never actually hit me very often||

||my phase 2 deaths are always to just Getting Bodied or the enhanced gravity pull triple combo||

[left willow]

apropro of nothing: If the Giant Land Octopus hawk-tua move did a status effect, what would it be?

[languid tiger]

probably poison, but idr the move you're talking

[stone cove]

Personal opinion, bit ||ansbach adds significant bleed pressure, which can easily counter act the added health if you're any kind of bleed build||

[left willow]

The vomit one

[languid tiger]

yh I just never see it

so I have zero visualization of it

but I'd assume poison

[modest berry]

||i agree though in my winning run he kind of dropped the ball, still if you want both ur boys, 2 times health is craaazy||

[languid tiger]

if Wretched Beast Vomit

[left willow]

Wild! That's actually pretty cool you've never let them get the move off

[obtuse halo]

I have never seen ||Ansbach|| proc bleed

[languid tiger]

idt I've ever been in aggro of one without running straight for it and beating it to death

[modest berry]

||he does also help reset frost which is cool||

[languid tiger]

I crave the strength and certainty of ultraviolence

[left willow]

https://youtu.be/jLQZ8ldmt_c?t=13
(happens like a sec after the linked timestamp)

[languid tiger]

huh

I think that'd be poison then yeah

no bleed, frost, sleep, or madness makes sense

except with more esoteric types of goober

and they ain't rotten

[glossy delta]

I think ansbach may be more useful for keeping bleed up than proccing it wholly himself
You need to help him
Good old swarm o flies

[left willow]

Do we know the name of the first Tree Sentinel you encounter?

(The internet suggests no... but I don't trust them)

[obtuse halo]

As far as I know, no Tree Sentinels are named

I'm not even completely sure they're human

[stable cedar]

they're all named greg

I've decided

[atomic plinth]

...surprisingly, the Obsidian Lamina is... not terrible?

I do think I ought to respec back into an INT/FAI build cause the ARC scaling is Not Great even at +10

But the AR's not unsalvageable

[left willow]

I would assume by the fact that humans can aspire to become them that they were at some point, but idk

[obtuse halo]

The knights of Leyndell once modelled themselves after the Tree Sentinels. Their purpose is to protect that which deserves protection, and thus the shield always comes before the sword.```
```Erdtree Greatshield
Weighty greatshield forged of gold carried by the order of Tree Sentinels, heavily equipped knights. Blessed by an old incantation of protection.

The living rampart of the Erdtree, the Tree Sentinels are the standard to which all defenders of the Erdtree aspire.```
```Malformed Dragon Armor
Malformed golden armor. Adorned with various dragon imagery and worn by the misshapen Tree Sentinels.

After the great ancient dragon Gransax attacked, the sentinels had an epiphany. The only way to truly protect the Erdtree was to become dragons themselves. ```
```Golden Halberd
Weighty halberd forged of gold. Wielded by the Order of Tree Sentinels, heavily equipped knights. 
Deals holy damage.

A masterfully crafted weapon that lives up to its heft, but is difficult for one mere human strength to wield.```
```Tree Sentinel Armor
Golden armor of the heavy cavalry Tree Sentinels who serve the Erdtree.

Adorned with a cape featuring the mark of the sacred tree.

Imposingly sturdy and nigh unbreakable, the grace of old yet lingers.```

They're extremely exceptional humans if they are human, and apparently predate the knightly order of Leyndell

They do at least have agency, as indicated by the Malformed Dragon armor - they're not tree-automatons or something

like, they're probably exceptional humans but there's enough weirdness around them that I'm not totally sure

[atomic plinth]

Could be somehow related to Radagon and his giant blood, maybe?

Though I'm not sure how it would really relate tbh, so probably not

[stone cove]

Honestly, "Rune empowered humans" seems likely

we have some imrpesison that runes can be given as strenght to others

[left willow]

They're literally empowered by and protect the source of runes in the world, right?

[obtuse halo]

Yeah okay that does make sense

[modest berry]

having a greatrune maybe makes you big, this might be similar

[left willow]

Except in the case of the player?

[stone cove]

iirc, you can check the runes that come int he dlc and they're metnioend as being givne as gifts/sources of strength

Lord's rune etc explictly come from very powerful indivduals

[obtuse halo]

I think that’s just gameplay, the player also becomes big in the elden lord ending

[modest berry]

with the roots on the shield i like the idea of them maybe being like erdtree guardians but bigger, but with like knotted tree root muscles but of course theres no supporting lore lol

[left willow]

Wouldn't it go the other way? They model themselves after the Guardians, hence the roots on the shield?

[stone cove]

"Golden remnants of the grace personally bestowed by Queen Marika to the heroes who joined the crusade for her. Use to gain 80000 runes. The brilliance of Queen Marika's grace blinds even the very best."

[modest berry]

yeah people ascended to sub sub sub demigod status by the blessing of the queen is realistically what it is with most other big or way more powerful enemies simply just having a lot of runes, xp is diagetic in this universe

[left willow]

So, apparently, I'm missing like.. 1 or 2 deathroot someplace. >:(

I'm going to have to INVESTIGATE tomorrow

[obtuse halo]

The usual suspects are hidden route to haligtree and gelmir hero’s grave

Check ashes for Bloodhound Knight Fioh for easy confirmation on the latter

[left willow]

Def got Route to Halig... I'll check tomorrow for Fioh

[atomic plinth]

...oh, I just got the "obtain all legendary armaments" achievement

Guess I didn't get it my last game cycle

[stone cove]

Pondeirng how i beat Melina this run. I could abosloteuy do it with cheese strats, but.. i dont wnat to. I nearly took her using Wing Stance and milady, and hoenstly it's a really fun fight that way

So it's just optimizing that approach.

[left willow]

Do you have Immunizing dried meat?

That'll help with the Rot in phase 2

[stone cove]

Scarlet rot is barely an issue 😛

I have Flame Cleanse Me, whcih is better, lol

It's mostly just not fucking my dodges really, and upping my pressure enough i can crunch her faster than she can crunc me

Coming back when i have Shard of Alexander seems sensible. Considering putting it to Blood - which looses me a chunk of AR, but she bleeds easy and let's me doubleup with a mimic or Dung Eater

[dusty kraken]

Yeah for all her rot is talked about it's mostly the 'stabbing you in the face' part that makes Melina scary

[stone cove]

alt is to go Flame Art Milady

[obtuse halo]

Yeah generally if you’re taking enough hits to get rotted you have more immediate issues

[stone cove]

Which even at 72 dex/30 faith actually has more ar than my Keen milady (also, exscuse me, wtf)

[proven cloak]

could be the lands between operates on One Piece rules

[stone cove]

612 vs 559, split, but she is weak to fire

[obtuse halo]

Split damage infusions tend to have better AR on paper in general

[proven cloak]

theres already the vulgar militia and omens

[left willow]

Alt is H O T T O G O, YOU CAN FIGHT HER HOT TO GO

[obtuse halo]

Like lightning almost always beats keen purely on displayed AR

[stone cove]

Honestly, most of my trouble last night was camera fuckery around waterfowl dance

Yeah, generally i stick to pure physical

i'm only considering in this case because Melina is 10/10/10/10 physical resits, and 0 or 10 Fire resist (Is she standing in water, yes no)

I could go grab the two-hand talisman too, that's another good boost to my damage for normal hits, and jumping heavies come fast and do a mischeif to her

(Milady's Jumping Heavy looks goofy as shit, but it shares the same R2-R1 combo that normal heavies have for milady)

[frail sky]

Trying out backhand blades for the first time, these things are fun as hell

[stone cove]

I am caught between really liking their heavies

and hating their heavies

mainly the lack of comobing into the r1s feels bad

but the dash attack is good

and they have really good runnig heavies and running lights

[frail sky]

I love how the running r1s just don’t stop your momentum in the slightest, you just keep running if you hold the button down

Also, the crit animation is just

[stone cove]

HTe thing that really bugs me?

[obtuse halo]

I haven’t tried Milady yet, but it does seem like it’s the new ideal cosplay lightsaber

[stone cove]

The jumping heavy.

for Backhand Blades

They missed this perfect hcance to have you just stab a bastard liek you're a stabertooth tiger with them

[frail sky]

Also: blind spot is incredible, it’s like if quickstep dealt damage 😌

[frail sky]

Milady is probably my favorite weapon in the entire dlc tbh

[stone cove]

Blindspot is incredibly nuts

[left willow]

"Ch, sorry kid"

Oh, I need to remember to actually go farm for a Harpoon

Dangit

I keep forgetting

[mighty warren]

|| Fucking christ radahn got hands, im getting to phase 2 consistently now though, and found out how to break the charm on my own, my current issue is my weapon being too slow to take advantage of the miniscule openings so im changing gears to the sword lance, ive had to reembrace my shield nature which kinda hurts cause i felt like i was finally growing out of it, but its too damn useful in both phases||

[stone cove]

The final boss is very weak to shield, so it's a good plan

[mighty warren]

i just feel bad cause i thought i was growing out of shields finally

[mighty warren]

|| I think i had enough attempts with the boys though, come monday im going in with just myself to disregard the health increase, cause im 60% sure i have had a few runs i would've won without it||

[left willow]

I would love a weapon that gives you the Black Knife Assassins' command grab move

[atomic plinth]

Closest we have is the greatsword of the damned

[mighty warren]

greatsword of damnation my beloved

[atomic plinth]

...side note, who the fuck thought it was a good idea to give its special move an instant kill against other players

[mighty warren]

i assume thats one you meant unless they just have REALLY similair names

alright no im just wrong

[atomic plinth]

Nah we're on the same page

[mighty warren]

Fair, ive not tried it in pvp as i avoid it like the plague but seeing how well it works on tarnished NPCs... i can safely assume its a menace

doesnt help that it has a built in "fuck you" pose

[atomic plinth]

It's got this weird phantom hitbox I think, it'll smack you even if you dodge through it

[mighty warren]

Oh fuckin o o f t that sounds awful

Also, late dlc spoilers

||MY BABY BOYYYYYY||

[left willow]

I hate that stupid sword, just because it's tied to my second-least-favorite cutscene

[mighty warren]

|| genuinely so fuckin' sad i had to kill moore, i enjoyed him a shit ton for how little he said ||

[stone cove]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sei8XkjwBc strimmy stram time

[mighty warren]

the drip
also question, are there any other chest piecies with the backside bit of cloth or am i stuck with trying to make this red work

[left willow]

Out of curiosity: Does anyone else have a personal "classification" system for bosses?

[stone cove]

That jerk
This joke
Jim from Accounting

[left willow]

(i.e. I sort bosses into "Field", "Dungeon", "Throwbacks", and "Arena"/"Story")

[median rock]

i only really sort them into "another version of the same boss", "miniboss", and "major boss"

aka anything thats relatively unique gets to be major in my eyes regardless of rememberance etc

miniboss gets to be for anything relatively interesting thats not repeated a ton (aka not ulcerated tree spirits or night's cav), but like isn't very notable. like NPC bosses (go garry), or not-super-common dungeon fights (apostle, nox duo, misbegotten duo fights, etc.)

[chilly forum]

for this game sort of
-The Sympathetic
-True Villainy
-Weird Monster (also Its cosmic horror time)
-National geographic (fantasy edition)

[median rock]

"nat geo" me looking at the 5th fucking hippo

[chilly forum]

oh no I don't 😅 really classify them aside from common, story, and open area

[chilly forum]

I was actually thinking of the dragons lol

[median rock]

ill accept dragons as distinct when they do (mostly) each have a distinct breath, at least

not gonna argue re ||dlc ghostflame dragons|| or greyoll/agheel/whatever tho

[stone cove]

GOT HER

and on stream too

Malenia down

[median rock]

nice :)

what build?

[stone cove]

Dex milady with faith

[median rock]

nice

[stone cove]

Mostly for the odd Giant's Flame TAKE THEE

also Black Knife Tiche, the hero i needed

[median rock]

my ass when great combustion

[old brook]

-Good Bosses

-Ulcerated Tree Spirit

[median rock]

real

[left willow]

Wait, do people not like UTSs?

[median rock]

i hated them on first playthrough

[old brook]

I feel about them how folks seem to dislike dragons

[median rock]

on subsequent ones theyre a weird mix where theyre fun to fight except when theyre level scaled too high and it just takes forever

[left willow]

me, an astrologer: 🤯

[old brook]

Just big un-seeable aoe spewers

[left willow]

I see, wild

[old brook]

Oh yeah the pyromancer run obliterated them but they remain bad bosses

[median rock]

my main complaitn is that depending on the arena its super easy to go from "i have no fucking clue what's going on" (wardead catacombs, a rot one in a tight space) or "why the FUCK are you over there" (the ashen capital ones)

[old brook]

The catacombs one. They have to know that one's pranks

[median rock]

theres also always the fun one in the haligtree. unless you're cheesing from range, you're rolling around in scarlet rot and therefore on a timer lol

[left willow]

oops

[median rock]

but yeah i actually realy like their moveset

i just wish. the arenas fit it better

[left willow]

Fair enough

I think my only complaint is the same one I have with a lot of bosses: The fucking camera gets a little wonky on their "leap" moves

[real shadow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNid8kN4seM Obviously, spoilers in video (but not in thumbnail)

[stone cove]

The camera in Dark souls and Elden Ring is objectively

Terrible/

it is just one of the worst cameras i've seen in this sort of game

DO NOT TAKE CONTROL AWAY FROM THE PLAYER. BAD FROM. BAD.

[median rock]

i think the two things that helped me there was

1. knowing their leap move (especially the grab) well enough means u just kinda know where theyre gonna end up anyway
2. after a while in the game u just get really good at freeaiming the camera to get your lock on back quickly. its like how if u watch ppl play sekiro most people know to instinctively flick the camera back to center on a mikiri counter, because it has a weirdly jarring camera animation

[median rock]

idk i feel like the elden ring one really isn't bad

the old DS ones sucked because they didnt let you move/attack very well

[stone cove]

It's bad, do not take control away from the player 😛

I will not be acepting any further debates 😛

[median rock]

like DS1 lock on always forced you to face directly at the enemy so you just straight up couldnt swing to the side

i mean it doesnt

just don't lock on if you dont want that

[stone cove]

you literally cannot aim half the shit in this game without lockon

"Do not lock on:" is not a practical or serious answer, come on.

[median rock]

nah when i played on m&kb i didn't lock on much

and thats almost objectively worse than freeaim on controller

but like im not sure what u mean when you say taking camera control away

[left willow]

I think that it's worse that Monster Hunter, but a lot of that is monster hunter's enemies are all very very close it size and have few-to-none teleport or super speedy moves

[stone cove]

I'm sorry, but no.

[median rock]

are you saying decouple camera focus & lock on?

[stone cove]

The lock on and how it jerks the cmaera around is bad

"Dont lock on" am ajor mechanic, is not a serious answer

[median rock]

i mean with enemies that move around, locking on literally doesnt make sense if theyre not on the screen or something

so im not sure what fixes there are other than a passive auto-aim like shooters on controller have

and personally i highly value not having to micromanage two sticks at once for both movement + camera, on mobile bosses, plus attacking etc?

[stone cove]

A good camera system does not require micormanaigng. Monster Hunter's is excelletn, parto fi t is as hades said, they actually smarlty deisgn creatures to work with the camera, but part of it is that it's built from the gorund up to be a lot more ocntrollable, to not rely on neeidng to lock on, and to give you extreme control over the camera in a few button presses between soft lock on (Flicks the camera towards the monster) and an easy reset button (Flicks the camera behind you)

as well ahs having multiple schemes to let you tweak how things react, how you move realtive to the camera and everythign else

there are otehr more dynamic action games - Bayonetta, DMC that also have good cameras.

Elden RIng's is just bad.

[median rock]

monster hunter enemies are also almost always significantly larger than you and not super fast

[old brook]

Part of that is fundamental combat differences though, Monster Hunter doesn't exactly have Homing Skulls you can cast

[stone cove]

These are not intracable unsolveable problems though

they could build a better camera system. They do not.

[median rock]

like you can't make the monster hunter camera work with elden ring's enemies spotdodging projectilse

[left willow]

Yeah, I think this is the best expression of how I feel about Elden Ring's camera

[stone cove]

and "Just don't use it" is again a bad answer (it's also a shit answer from an acessiblity point of view)

WHich is already an area From needs to be raked over the fucking coals for.

[left willow]

You have exactly "lock on" and "free cam" and no other settings

[stone cove]

Like some of my frustraiton here is i actually have fine motoor skill issues.

You've probably all spotted how i typo all the fucking time

That's because my hands cannot keep up with my brain, and ic annot control them precisely.

The fact i can generally style on things is atestment to me being very stuborn. But these games are shit from an accesiblity and controllability pov.

There are soloutions they could do, like soft-lock on mechanics that afforded better control, as well as deeper fine grained controls to allow a moore deeply tuned experience. They dont. It sucks! It's worht making noise about.

Okay, rant over, sorry for getting steamed, but this is ap erenial bugbear and i get really sick of hearing the same "Oh, jkust odnt use lock on" ando ther exscuses.

[old brook]

I just don't understand the problem with being locked on

[median rock]

i mean, they definitely don't suck. they're not amazing by any means, but they definitely aren't awful - the game is more than playable. so if you're going to suggest that they should be better, tha'ts fine, but i don't think it's fair to say they suck in that light

also, the cameras have consistently gotten much better over time

like i said the ds1 camera is borderline nightmarish compared to the ER camera, so it's clearly not somethign they're unaware of

[left willow]

My main issue is that there are some enemies that move in a way (or are just big enough) that being locked on directly obscures your vision of their attacks.

[median rock]

the ac6 camera also has soft lock + hard lock on its settings (though it has aiming centered on camera mostly rather than movement so that helps), so there's a chance it comes to future games

[old brook]

Part of the problem is I feel at least part of that is intentional

[left willow]

(Notably things like Malenia during Waterfowl, Fire Giant in general, even some Morgott moves)

[old brook]

Ohh yeah for those

[median rock]

my personal complaints with the ER lock on is that the lock on points are very non-intuitive with certain enemy animations - like how for ancient dragons, you can sometimes only lock on to the head, and that's not very hittable

[old brook]

I don't think the perspective could be changed in a more Bayo/DMC way without fundamentally altering gamefeel

[left willow]

When you're moving one way, the boss whips over your head, and suddenly you're moving another, it's super frustrating

[stone cove]

Facing and all toehr movement is relative to camera direction. If you're locked on this means things like rolling past someone turns into rolling around them, because the camera is contantly pivoting. To say nothing of how it feaks out when in terrain etc

[median rock]

like malenia lock on is fine 99% of the time but its pretty annoying for scarlet aeonia & waterfowl dance, but idk, part of it is like - do you want to be locked on there? just unlock and relock once the animation is done, that's what i do, because there's no camera in the world that's tracking that

[old brook]

Those games might as well not have camera controls and sit you in a square room

[stone cove]

And there's no options to change how the game handles facing etc

[stone cove]

Nah, they're pretty dymanic these days honestly.

[old brook]

That could be good, just let you switch between the two

[stone cove]

and again, MOnster hunter is right there

and yes, it's somewhat appels to oranges, but it's a much much closer situatioon

[median rock]

if you're lookign for a soft lock on where it just unlocks if they go off screen quickly enough i guess that's reasonable but i feel like that's mostly superseded by the ability to just unlock

monster hunter really isn't a good comparison imo. the boss design is very different, as is the rest of the exploration gameplay

[old brook]

They do at least offer options a lot more generously

[stone cove]

Again, that's a bad answer from accesbility. If your lock on is fairly fundemtnal to the game, it should not freak out reliably on certain attacks. Either fix your camera, or fix your boss design.

[median rock]

it doesn't freak out, it does what it's supposed to do - it's just a sudden switch

[stone cove]

"Just unlock faster" is a bad answer. I think you're seriously failing to understand the accesiblity and physical contrainst some people are operating under

And actually, i'm gonna call it here, i would like to drop this topic

I am getting upset and quite frustrated, can we please move on

[old brook]

I got mixed up earlier cause I thought you wanted even more intricate controls so I was ??? but I getcha now sorry

[left willow]

Oh, is there a channel people like for lore?

[stone cove]

People recommend Vaati all the time, but honestly, i find him really bad

He's super opiniationed, tends to treat his t heories as actual gospel, and talks slow as hell (The real crime)

https://old.reddit.com/r/EldenRingLoreTalk/ I just enjoy browsing here

[old brook]

Every lore person talks slow as hell tbh

[left willow]

Cause there are some people that swear by vaati, but s lot of people that point out inaccuracies in his works

[stone cove]

because you get a lot of fun back and forth arguments etc

[left willow]

Aaaagh

[stone cove]

and it's much more "people have theories"

[left willow]

No, bad Zombie

[stone cove]

You're gonna have to explain the issue, Hades

[left willow]

I asked for aural format T^T

Or, I didn't, but I meant to

Dangit

[stone cove]

Right, see, that was an important detail 😛

[left willow]

It is, yes

[stone cove]

This is spoileers for dlc, and is a wirteup, but it's a really interesting take on Messmer

||https://www.tumblr.com/drenched-in-sunlight/754348909795622912/theory-messmers-timeline-and-story-will-only||

[left willow]

How deep into the dlc?

[stone cove]

Ah, post messmer and finding the SHaman Village.

It doesnt spoil the final boss afaik

[left willow]

Mm, haven't found that yet, I think

[left willow]

I unfortunately got that spoiled

[stone cove]

It's a seceret area from the side of shadow keep, you ahve to find an emote in ANOTHER semi-seceret area, then use that in a part of shadow keep

Aww, shit, that really sucks, i'm sorry 😦

I've been super carefully checking anything i send you to make sure it doesnt spoiler that (including the OH NO DO NOT WATCH THIS UNTIL YOU BEAT THE DLC) so glad i checked that one

[median rock]

i just unsubscribed/muted every single ER thing i was in until i finished the DLC lol

[left willow]

Eh, it was mainly I saw a portion of the fight went ||oh, did they give Radahn new moves?|| And then got clapped by the tags

[stone cove]

OH NO

Well at least we can tell you a funny now

||a few days before the dlc hit, the fight leaked, and there was SO MUCH DRAMA over it. It was hilarious. full on THis is Modded And I Can Prove It||

Like it was such a shit storm. I'm ap erenial leak hound for these things, i love me some spoilers

and it was hoenstly great watching the drama go crazy

[left willow]

I usually don't care about spoilers, but I was trying to play through blind, cause I played the majority of the base game with another player watching explaining story stuff and I think that the game might have been better without that?

(Thankfully, I did see the spoiler after talking to ||Absnatch|| in ||shadow keep|| so I had some idea as to what might have been coming)

[stone cove]

That's soemthing atleast

And yeah, i think someone explaining the story is.. not the optimal way

it's whyi have generally tried to only do "Oh, hey, X is interesting about Y" in my streamed playhtoruhg

[mighty warren]

|| Ah so thats likely another aspect that lead to calling em winter lanterns in conjunction with the familir enemy fact, does mean the flys and the untouchables are seperate though||

[median rock]

yeah they look similar + before u find their name, u find the flies

||but also like, theyre not just similar they're basically the same effects - the only difference is the intangibility until parried thing. winter lanterns do the same look-at-you-frenzy + grab frenzy||

[old brook]

Also ||no lovely singing v-v just run and scream||

[median rock]

lmao thats true

[stone cove]

It's their teleport that annoys me

the timing to dodge it is very exacting

[median rock]

if you wait a beat after the tp you can consistently parry, i think. i spent some time messing with it while i extinctioned them for their drops

its a shame i found out only after that their single crafting material sucks balls

[stone cove]

My drip looks so much better with HDR on

but hey

[median rock]

its a shame the drake knight hat is so goofy

the rest of the set is sick

[stone cove]

Placi's ruin get

such a silly, silly spell

i love it XD

...sad we didn't get Placi's Lighting Claw though, because srsly.

Just make it like a faith version of Carian Grandeur, except it's massvie giant lighting lcaws.

[median rock]

speak for yourself I want placi's nuke lol

[stone cove]

Oh nooo XD

Spoilers for the endo f the DLC< like big spoilers, but also this is hilarious

||https://youtu.be/1v9zl6mBpwc||

||IDK Maybe just be evil||

Seriously if you ahve finisehd the dlc, wathc it, i am cracking up

[frozen olive]

||Miquella certainly took this idea to heart||

[stone cove]

There's so many good details if you freezeframe too

||Age of Griffith|| crossed out, "too Obvious" written

[frozen olive]

lmao

[stone cove]

or the message infront of the door with "Wary of Right" infront of it.

His book pile has, among other things ||God 101 (Fun + Easy), The Prince, Odeipus, Game of thrones, and Berserk||

Also messmer using his serpent to roast a marshmallow above a fuance golem at one point

MESSMER NO

and Ansbach reading ||God 101|| except it's upside down.

[mighty warren]

yeah fuck it this is my outfit now, im gonna own this shit

[stone cove]

Which chest piece is that?

[mighty warren]

Rakshasa, got it from a mausoleum fight

came with a great katana too but too dex focused for me

It's a bit of a gimmick set which is why i'm only rocking one piece despite liking the full set

low negations for its weight, but 2% more damage per piece

[glossy delta]

Rakshasa with pelt of ralva head is a big fave of mine

[mighty warren]

I would love to do that but i dont wanna see my character's face

Full set for reference by the way peng

anddd the main reason why i dont run the full thing

[stone cove]

Oh, yeah it tanks your reistances fsomethign firece

and it's actually whatever headpeice you're wearing that was throwing me off, lol

[mighty warren]

Oh thats just banished knight

the shawl actually shows up on the chest piece so it goes together REALLY well

[grave plinth]

https://x.com/kankan33333/status/1812148916659671548

ポテトルス (@kankan33333) on X

レ

Twitter · Jul 13, 2024, 3:35 PM

[mighty warren]

As for the bear pelt
like said love it, looks great from the back which yeah most important part

buit man i hate my face

[glossy delta]

That's what the magic mirror is for

[mighty warren]

More specifically i just dont like my character's face being shown

[stone cove]

Compare to my love of the bandit half mask

But I put a lot of effort into my girls, and they're part of how I express my gender identity so hey

[mighty warren]

Its not like i dont put effort into the character, its just that in a game with heavy armour i will always want the full armour

[stone cove]

Yeah, valid! I just have this thing of I put all this effort into the face

(like I've even done ones who look like they have a split jaw and Glasgow grin with clever tattoo placement)

[warped quest]

furnce golems might be thbe worst thing ive ever seen in a fromsoft game

and its not even close

bed of chaos sl1 was less frustrating

[kind garden]

they are definitely not as bad as Bed of Chaos

[warped quest]

bed of chaos is an s teir boss compared to them

[stone cove]

They're just a very boring fight

Jump, whack whack whack, jump...

[real shadow]

They have a ton of HP and can only really be fought one (well, two) ways.

Their grab is kinda bullshit but if you just hang around behind them then they miss you entirely.

[warped quest]

you have to what poise break them what 6 times? unless you do that one trick

[real shadow]

3 times per fall, yes.

Throwing hefty fire/furnace pots into their heads only work on two of them, unfortunately.

[modest berry]

really?

[languid tiger]

more than that

[modest berry]

i mean theres only like 2 of them you can throw it into from elevation, but you can toss it in when you get a single poise break on any of them no?

[languid tiger]

at least three that I can immediately think of, and probably for

there's the two you have to hit the top for, then the one at the river that you can hit from the top

and iirc you can get the rauh ruins one from the dome too

[raw coral]

I’ve still been having issues with performance dropping over time and persisting until I restart my PC, and I’m wondering if it’s related to switching to an incantation build

That’s when I started noticing it, and I’ve now had two instances of the fps dip starting right after using an incant

first time was using Messmer’s Orb against Malenia, second was bestial sling hitting a bunch of breakable pots while testing spells

I saw a bug involving the glintblade spawn animation and the dragon head from theodorix’s magma not disappearing and it made me think there might be some kind of memory leak?

[obtuse halo]

is SL1 bed of chaos really worse than bed of chaos at any other level

you just take out the first two hearts with a bow and the challenge for the last bit is just janky platforming

which kills you just as surely at level 100 as 1

like, that's a rare boss I'd think is basically the same difficulty regardless of your level 😛

[warped quest]

the fire spouts mainly

[obtuse halo]

anyway yeah furnace golems suck ass

[kind garden]

I killed 4 Furnace Golems with pots

Both armored ones obviously, the river one, and the Rauh one

Ain’t no way I’m fighting them normal if I can avoid it

[obtuse halo]

I used pest threads on them on my first playthrough

I just ignored them for bow-only

[warped quest]

i tried pestthreads and it didnt seem to help much

[obtuse halo]

I don't think there's really a practical way to even fight them bow-only, though I haven't sworn off consumables so I guess pots sorta work

yeah it still sucks even with pest threads

at least it's faster than using a sword though

also the pest threads do enough damage that you probably only need one full stance break critical instead of two

[frail sky]

That’s what it sounds like yeah

[real shadow]

Huh, didn't know.

[languid tiger]

yeah, i think it's somewhat tougher because you need a good angle

but as far as i'm aware it is possible

[real shadow]

If I ever get around to doing the DLC again I'll keep that in mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7t-gXCD98o

[atomic plinth]

Y'all got any recommendations for helmets that work with Albrecht's robe?

I've been trying to find something I like but I haven't had much luck

[modest berry]

aristocrat headband looks cool though it isnt really a helmet,

and its annoying af to get

[atomic plinth]

Forgot that was a thing, I should farm it up

Should be easier now that I've specced into Arcane a smidge for the Obsidian Lamina

...speaking of I should probably spec out of Arcane and back into Faith, it has TERRIBLE Arcane scaling even at +10

Tops out at a D

The highest it gets is B scaling in Dexterity

The Bleed definitely helps offset the relatively low AR at least, though even then an Occult grave scythe would have higher AR and I believe roughly the same Bleed buildup? If not higher.

Anyway

I'll try grabbing the aristocrat headband

[modest berry]

sanguine noble hood also looks cool with it iirc

alberich set

https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Marionette+Soldier+Birdhelm

holy shit this is an item??? i learn new stuff about this game every day

[warped quest]

the thing i dislike baout that helmet is its broken a bit

[modest berry]

do tell

[languid tiger]

like physically beat up i think they mean?

[obtuse halo]

Great Horned Headband if you wanna be The Devil

[languid tiger]

from da bible?

[kind garden]

heyyyy its meeeee

[languid tiger]

go to space

[obtuse halo]

Surprisingly, no! The direct biblical support for a devil is essentially nonexistent! It's just kind of slipped into the general canon anyway. Demons, sure, but they're led by mesopotamian kings or something iirc idk i'm not a theologian

or even christian so take anything I say with a grain of salt

[languid tiger]

it was a realtime fandub reference :(

[obtuse halo]

oh

[languid tiger]

luna got me

[obtuse halo]

I'm sorry, I don't know what that means

[atomic plinth]

I'm here to convince you to do SIN

[atomic plinth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhf_o5zbQp0

[languid tiger]

are you perchance aware of the "eggman has come to make an announcement" meme

[obtuse halo]

oh okay I know about that

I just didn't connect the phrase "Realtime Fandub" to snapcube specifically

[languid tiger]

that's a scene from the sa2 realtime fandub

ye

There Are No Others™️

snapcube is the one above

[atomic plinth]

...you know what the Obsidian Lamina could've really gone for

The moveset that Friede's Greatscythe had

Would've fit it PERFECTLY and gave it an edge above the other reapers

[modest berry]

i just noticed that if you alter alberichs hat he seems to be becoming a blood star version of azur or lusat

[languid tiger]

yee

it's v interesting

[atomic plinth]

Aye

[languid tiger]

i fucking love space lore

[atomic plinth]

I wish we got more of it ngl

[languid tiger]

pls michael zaki

dlc2

[atomic plinth]

I wanna know what's up with these funky blue rocks

[languid tiger]

send us to the moon

[obtuse halo]

Honestly I just wish alberich's hat wasn't really our only option for a wizard hat

[atomic plinth]

There's the Spellblade Hat

[old brook]

I wonder what the difference is in making a Graven Mass vs Bloodstone

[atomic plinth]

And the Snow Witch Hat

[obtuse halo]

I guess there's also spellblade hat but it's a beige that doesn't match with anything

and snow witch is a white that doesn't match with anything

[atomic plinth]

Forget the color, it's so comically oversized it doesn't fit with anything for that virtue alone

[languid tiger]

i mean

that part is just based

the bigger the hat the bigger the mana

of course

[old brook]

The fact it's pure white makes it impossible to work with

[languid tiger]

you can't have a small wizard hat

[obtuse halo]

Every time someone posts snow witch hat insisting they have drip for it I'm like...no i'm sorry this doesn't work you just threw it on there

[atomic plinth]

Probably something to do with glintstones and the magical nature of the sorcerers used to create a graven mass

[languid tiger]

what are you? a small wizard?

fuckin cringe

be the biggest wizard with the biggest hat

[old brook]

It's not even your hat v-v

[languid tiger]

yeah it's your wife's

[atomic plinth]

But I don't wanna be Big Hat Logan

[languid tiger]

that's called a love language

[obtuse halo]

alberich's hat goes pretty nicely on anything with dark colors at least, but I don't love that it bandages up the top half of your head

[old brook]

And it only looks cool on her

[languid tiger]

then you can be wimpy hat wamly and cry

[atomic plinth]

https://tenor.com/view/cry-gif-23674110

Just you wait, I'll make wearing cool helmets the next big vogue for wizards and you'll look right proper silly

[languid tiger]

we'll see about that

[atomic plinth]

Walking around with your big ol hat while we're all decked out in cool armor and shit

[languid tiger]

cool armor is correct, it just needs to be paired with the biggest fucking hat you ever did see

[old brook]

Technically stupid stone faces are in vogue

[obtuse halo]

also while alberich's hat is nice it's kind of ashy in a way that still sometimes doesn't match with dark-blue-blacks properly

[languid tiger]

yeah it's a shame

[old brook]

Also sits real high because of his rock head deal

[languid tiger]

i wish the color palettes were slightly alterable

from

you had it in the game

please :(

[obtuse halo]

The worst part is they are, yeah

just not by the player

I can deal with it sitting a little too high, but I wish it didn't hide most of your head and hair

[atomic plinth]

I wish the armor altering mechanic had palette swapping

[languid tiger]

but also this is my wizard, so i suppose i have no ground to stand on

[atomic plinth]

Instead of just "cape or no cape"

[languid tiger]

i just wish there were more FUCKNORMOUS HATs

[warped quest]

im really sad you cant in the blacknight armor do the same thing you can with the base knight armor

[atomic plinth]

You claim you love big fucknormous hats and yet you aren't using the big fucknormous Divine Beast head

Checkmate libruls

[languid tiger]

that's not a hat

[languid tiger]

that's a dog

i can't wear a dog

[old brook]

It's a dog hat

[atomic plinth]

Hey if we can wear a bear we can wear a dog

[languid tiger]

oh crab

so crab

[atomic plinth]

Time for crab

[languid tiger]

this is incredible

spreading immediately

[slender loom]

That fight was so much fun, I almost wish I didn’t get it done in two tries. ||It was a mutual kill between me and Leda at the end that just happened to be timed right to count as a win||

[obtuse halo]

I did it bow-only 😩

it took...more than two tries

[frail sky]

Source:
||https://x.com/NeitheYAGI/status/1814844099587121280||

[gray leaf]

The lore stuff is interesting, but it still doesn't entirely explain why ||both Marika and serpents are, separately, thought of as traitors. That requires betraying someone, which requires some sort of previous allegiance to betray. What's being described here doesn't feel like treachery, per se. Also, I think Rykard hadn't done snake stuff at that point? I felt like that happened later, especially since the Serpent-Hunter was used to kill an immortal serpent in the distant past and was later found by people who wanted to kill Rykard.||

Which of course begs the question of ||what the original immortal serpent was that it was designed to fight. Also, it makes me regret more than ever that it doesn't work against Messmer (although at the same time I understand why it wouldn't simply for code reasons).||

[obtuse halo]

The Gelmir Serpent Cult is ancient, and seems to have been a rival to ancient Deathbird cults

[gray leaf]

Not disagreeing, but source?

Also, keep in mind that the Gelmir Serpent existed before Rykard fed himself to it.

[old brook]

'Curved sword fashioned in the image of an ancient serpent deity
and tool of a forgotten religion practiced on Mt. Gelmir.'

enough to be ancient and forgotten in Elden Ring is a time

[obtuse halo]

serpent god curved sword

and tool of a forgotten religion practiced on Mt. Gelmir.

Formerly used to offer up sacrifices, this sword restores HP upon
slaying an enemy.```
sacrificial axe
```Hatchet used in ancient sacrificial rite. A Deathbird is depicted as a malevolent deity.

The power of the rite yet lingers. A small amount of FP is restored upon slaying a foe.```
Magma Shot
```One of the sorceries developed from the magma of Mt. Gelmir.

Fires a lump of magma that explodes on contact. Charging enhances potency.

After discovering the ancient hexes of Gelmir, Rykard, son of Queen Rennala, brought them back into practical use as new forms of sorcery.```
Man-Serpent Ashes
```Ashen remains in which spirits yet dwell.
Use to summon the spirit of a man-serpent.

Spirit of a deformed man-serpent that wields a whip of magma.
It is said that long ago, the elder serpent that dwelled on Mt. Gelmir devoured a demigod, and the birth of the man-serpents followed.```

the sacrificial axe is admittedly a little more spurious, but it seems to be a paired tool with the serpent-god curved sword and depicts Deathbirds as an enemy

[atomic plinth]

Not too bad, I kinda look like Ansbach Prime

[warped quest]

i wish the sacirfical axe wasnt so ugly

[languid tiger]

i like it ngl

[warped quest]

maybe if it was a greataxe it look a bit less silly

[atomic plinth]

It'd definitely look better as a greataxe, yeah

[old brook]

It does look very stout

[atomic plinth]

Or maybe a halberd or something with a longer haft

[old brook]

Got a Butcher's Knife type energy somehow

[real shadow]

Me eating a Bic Mac:

[atomic plinth]

Debating between Ansbach's mask or this helmet, which do y'all vote

[old brook]

Helmet does seem to let collar rise more

[languid tiger]

i like ansbach's tbh, but the helmet looks pretty good

not sure if its colors are right

[atomic plinth]

And it gives me a second collar

[languid tiger]

but if they are go with that

[obtuse halo]

Also, the Serpent's theme seems to be immortality between the healing on kill and the "serpent never dies" type energy, so it finds a natural opponent in the Deathbirds who bring an end to that life

[old brook]

Snakes Hate Birds, a fact of science

[obtuse halo]

🇲🇽

[atomic plinth]

...the fuck is this thing...?

[frail sky]

…I just realized the reason Messmer says “in the embrace of Messssmer’s flame” like that is because he’s a snake

[gray leaf]

Garuda is described as the king of the birds and a kite-like figure.[7][8] He is shown either in a zoomorphic form (a giant bird with partially open wings) or an anthropomorphic form (a man with wings and some ornithic features). Garuda is generally portrayed as a protector with the power to swiftly travel anywhere, ever vigilant and an enemy of every serpent.

[jaunty solar]

Oh god imagine trying to beat the final boss of the DLC in the first person mod

[obtuse halo]

give ongbal like two days

[real shadow]

"The Messmerrrrrrr"

[jaunty solar]

https://tenor.com/view/cod-nuke-explode-explosion-gif-16043745

||POV second phase starts||

The first person mod really is gonna be call of duty with the automatic crossbow

Honestly if you need to squeeze a little more out of elden ring as a game

First person mod and learning the keyboard controls

Good way to do it

Play it like King's Field

[gray leaf]

Mild and overly specific pet peeve: Elden Ring seems to be using t-v distinction backwards (ie. treating "thou" as more formal than "you") and it screws with a few specific moments which I think might come across more clearly with Japanese honorifics?

[obtuse halo]

yeah that's just a very common mistake in general

[gray leaf]

And I thought it was another strike against this theory, but, no, ||Messmer does refer to Marika as "thee" rather than "you" in the final dialogue||. I don't know if this actually means anything.

[jaunty solar]

If you kill Alexander he asks if his whole life is just a crock

I think they were having fun with it

[gray leaf]

plus the people who make the jars are called potentates, which is a real word, but... they were definitely having fun with it.

[old brook]

Marika becomes Queen and just starts improvising the formal dialogue

It is mostly the direct fam that seems to speak that way

[gray leaf]

This distinction does matter, though; ||Miquella exclusively refers to the player as "you"||. I guess when you're trying to translate honorifics, you do your best with what you have? I really want to have someone who knows Japanese look at the honorifics and pronouns used, and provide that particular information, because I feel like that could do a lot to clarify some of the stuff like ||how Messmer feels about Marika||.

[frail sky]

Honestly, the base game jar stuff is kinda comical in a way
Like, you wouldn’t expect there to be a village of living jars, compete with tiny ones as children, in a soulsborne game but there they are

[old brook]

just gotta not do the end part

[frail sky]

Yeah

[old brook]

The Fromsoft Classic Bit

[old brook]

But also, Soldjars of Fortune

[frail sky]

Oh, and it’s called Jarburg

[tropic stream]

M a n t l e G o o d

[proven cloak]

true and real

the "Erdtree = alien parasite" + "Greattree" points have done such fucked up things to the communities interpretations of the game

dlc did bring in some strong thematics though

and helped me lock in my take on why Marika did All That

(wanted to die / not be responsible for the world anymore)

[obtuse halo]

I kinda interpreted as ||rage against her compact tbh. she did what she did to not lose people close to her again, and then godwyn goes and gets fucking murdered, so like what the hell Greater Will||

of course, both things can be true

[gray leaf]

A lot of this would, I think, be somewhat clarified if we knew what "Radagon is Marika" meant. Also, why ||Radahn is described as "cursed"||; that one's a bit of a stumper for me, since I almost kind of have guesses but not really?

[grave plinth]

I think she ||ordered Godwyn murked and just got tired of being god||

||Its very clear that the Black Knives don't actually answer to Ranni, and the only ones shown to have them under their control is either the Golden Order or Miquella, and Miquella's Black Knife is probably there cuz of mind control||

[languid tiger]

||when's radahn described as cursed, by the way?||

[kind garden]

I am once again platforming my theories about the Black Knives

[gray leaf]

||Remembrance of a God and a Lord:

In their childhood, Miquella saw in Radahn a lord. His strength, and his kindness, that stood in stark contrast with their afflicted selves.
I misremembered the wording, though.||

[grave plinth]

I think its refering to Miquella as part of a pair with Malenia

[kind garden]

||I think the Nox, people of Night, come from the Swordhands of Night that lived underground. The Black Knives are Numen from the Eternal Cities underground that share in the night aesthetic; they're Numen so they're of the same stock as Marika, literally being people of the same race. As for why they do what they do - they have no allegiance to anyone, they want to kill the gods because they're Nox who hate the Greater Will and its people.||

[proven cloak]

in the sense that ||"what the hell, universe" is a reaction other characters have, yeah||

[kind garden]

||They worked with Ranni because their goals briefly aligned - the Black Knives got god-killer weapons, and Ranni got to further her own plan; this is why they come back later to kill Ranni's people||

[grave plinth]

||Rogier might be wrong about them being from the Eternal Cities||

[proven cloak]

but imo

[grave plinth]

||Since the Numen are actually from outside the Lands Between||

||The Nox by all means should be in Ranni's corner if they were involved||

[proven cloak]

the ||curse of godhood isn't literally getting your body controlled, its that trying to shape the world to your vision is inherently prone to failure, and its a job you sign up for forever||

[gray leaf]

Malenia isn't mentioned anywhere else in the item description, so that'd be kind of a non sequitur. That said, this is another moment where maybe the original Japanese makes things clearer (or maybe not).

[proven cloak]

very ds2-esque

[grave plinth]

||Since she's everything they're looking for in a god||

[kind garden]

||The Land of Shadow was part of the Lands Between before Marika veiled it, and the Eternal Cities could well be underground cities formed by the Numen forced underground in the Lands of Shadow who spread out underground||

[gray leaf]

||To paraphrase St. Trina, godhood is a prison. (That might be the exact quote but I'm not 100% confident.||

[proven cloak]

yeah

but I think too many people take it literally

[grave plinth]

||Like its clear that the Black Knives are actually taking orders from someone in the Golden Order, likely the Two Fingers||

[proven cloak]

||"Godhood is a prison because raaaaah aliens!" instead of "Godhood is a prison because it requires you to constantly enforce your vision of reality, forever, until you die or create a successor"||

[grave plinth]

||Because they're found often guarding or doing Golden Order important stuff||

||there's one doing overwatch on Marika's bedchamber, one guarding a golden order tomb, and one hunting skeletons in Limgrave||

[gray leaf]

I like how the DLC reveals that ||the Two Fingers are also kind of just winging it, and have been for longer than expected.||

[frail sky]

...why does the swift spear not have the short spear's r2s?

[proven cloak]

I've heard japanese makes it more clear its 'they' as 'the twins'

but 🤷‍♂️ idk

[kind garden]

||Is it really that apparent, when they could just as easily be staking out waiting to kill you or any other Golden Order stooge? The one we find in Limgrave is languishing in the back of a catacomb, their veil and invisibility damaged and their health literally already depleted, we found them there nursing an injury and or dying||

[grave plinth]

||The Limgrave one is like that cuz they cleared out the undead in the boss room||

[proven cloak]

its ||very humanizing. Nobody understands what they should be doing in this world, we all grope blindly||

imo one of elden ring's core themes is summed up in the spell you get during that quest

The broken and discarded are fully willing to cling to fleeting simulacra, earning them some modicum of sympathy.

[grave plinth]

||Whatever the case its unlikely that they're the iconoclastic misotheists they superficially present themselves as||

[proven cloak]

applies to so many of the characters, demigod or otherwise, in the story

Subsitute a lack of a mother for a blood god, or a distant towering tree, masses of putrid flesh protecting a flower, discarded champions seeking completition.

[grave plinth]

||The fact that Melina shares some of their moveset implies that they, at least, started out as Marika's lackeys||

[proven cloak]

I ||don't think Marika had Godwyn killed|| tbh

||she mightve had connection to the black knives beforehand, but the support for her being a part of the plot always seemed thin||

[grave plinth]

||I think Marika planned the Shattering well in advance and took out Godwyn and exiled Messmer because they were the most likely to resolve the conflict with little difficulty||

||Godwyn negotiates a peace with his legendary charisma and Messmer steamrolls everybody with his superior military talent||

[proven cloak]

||I don't think she'd need to go through the hoops of the knight of black knives, though, to take Destined Death||

||and afterwards, its return seals it even further within Maliketh.||

[grave plinth]

||I think she did because Maliketh is programmed to snap if he sees her break script||

[proven cloak]

I don't think he'd be able to take her, tbh

[grave plinth]

||He doesn't need to, he just needs to keep Destined Death sealed||

[proven cloak]

At the height of the GO, she was legitimately godlike

at the end of SOTE, we ||see a much less powerful God in Miquella, who doesn't even possess the Elden Ring and even he's incredibly powerful. I just can't see Marika as legitimately scared of Maliketh turning on her - and given what she does afterwards, I can't see her caring too much about him snapping either.||

[kind garden]

https://vxtwitter.com/thegrayfruit/status/1815109607033024980

[proven cloak]

he's definitely not having a good time when we find him

[grave plinth]

||Maliketh is like running at reduced capacity though, his greatsword is explicitly a shadow of its former self||

||The Maliketh we fight is an insane, temporally confused, husk who may or may not be slowly destroyed from the inside by eating deathroot||

[proven cloak]

but what do you think ||Saint Trina was saying with her "Godhood as a prison" line||, then?

||as far as we see, Miquellas under no sort of control by the Fingers, and doesn't have a shadow (anymore?) either||

[real shadow]

||Miquella is entering godhood without any of his humanity left--no love or genuine compassion, no body, nothing to root him to the people he wants to help. He thinks that's to free him to make the choices he thinks he needs to make, but it's just putting himself in another box. Godhood won't magically fix things and once he becomes a god, there's no real escape beyond death.||

||It's a very childish idea of how to fix things, which is fitting for Miquella.||

[frail sky]

...oh god that damage is terrible

[warped quest]

one thing i do think is neat about it

is it can use a bunch of weapo arts you think it wouldnt

like it can use poison moth flight i think

[grave plinth]

Heard good things about thr smithscript cirques

[frail sky]

Tested them out a bit and they seem alright, though a 40 dex +12 weapon doing okay against some albinaurics in liurnia isn’t exactly a high bar

[old brook]

They feel nice as a sidearm type of option but as a pure build might be rough

The double scaling patch hit p hard but still alright with status, reset Cold with a lil fire dagger.. supplementary bleed, extra Ash of war

Crazy low weight too

'This is my fifth talisman, some knives'

[frail sky]

Double scaling patch?

[obtuse halo]

scattershot throw is the clear winner for AoW on them, imo

it's actually crazy, it throws about two dozen projectiles and they can all individually hit

[old brook]

When SOTE released the int/faith scaling doubled up on buffing the Scriptsmith weapons so if you infused them for magic or flame art or whatever it got huge dividends

[frail sky]

[languid tiger]

yeah, the axe was hitting like

colossal weapon numbers

[old brook]

Hammer was brutal into PK

[languid tiger]

i wish they kept it though :(

[old brook]

It was a neat niche

[languid tiger]

and just like went "okay sure but we're upping the int/fth reqs to 25 each"

or like 20 instead of 11

make people actually sweat for it a bit, but then they get Real Goddamn Weapons

[frozen olive]

||Afflicted selves is 100% referring to Miquella and Malenia||

||"his strength, and his kindness, that stood in stark contrast with their afflicted selves" literally means it cannot refer to Radahn because the afflicted selves is contrasted with him||

[real shadow]

||Also Radahn wasn't really afflicted by any curse, unless you count the red hair like Radagon did for himself.||

[grave plinth]

Radahn thought being Ginger was cool

[real shadow]

||In fact, the children of Rennala weren't born with any curse at all. The only curse they received was during the Shattering--Radahn with the rot, Rykard by being subsumed by the serpent, and Ranni...well that was self-inflicted to stave off her own fate, so. Jury's a bit out on that one.||

[covert schooner]

So, I wonder : like ||Trina appears to be growing a new body, if Radagon too comes out of the land of shadow later because he has to essentially rebuild himself, thus why they look all Stoney and weird||

[atomic plinth]

||Didn't Rykard subsume himself with the serpent||

||I swear I remember something about him subjugating the serpent and forcing a deal of eating him and subsuming him into its body to stay alive or something||

[real shadow]

||Given how almost every child Marika had was cursed in some manner, it brings up some rather...disturbing thoughts. Messmer with the snake, Morgot and Mohg being Omens, Malenia with the rot and Miquella with being forever a child. Godwyn's the only one who was actually fine up until he got stabbed.||

[real shadow]

||Yes, and given the state we find him in, it's something of a curse--unable to die, but not having full control of one's self.||

[atomic plinth]

||Godwyn's curse came in later I guess||

||Curse of Getting Fucking Stabbed||

||An offshoot of the popular spell "Chuck Wizard's Curse of Shoot You In The Face"||

[real shadow]

||Curse of Never Dying Bodily and inflicting that on the Lands Between and the Lands of Shadow.||

[atomic plinth]

||That too, but that's just a common side effect of Curse of Getting Fucking Stabbed||

||It's why Chuck Wizard's Curse of Shoot You In The Face is more popular, certainly less subtle but at least you don't end up blighting the world with a curse of undeath||

[grave plinth]

I think the greater theme at play here is that royalty is a fucked up concept that produces fucked up people

[real shadow]

And if you're not fucked up you'll get stabbed.

Royalty: not even once.

[grave plinth]

The whole shattering is a perfect storm of prejudice, paranoia, and miscommunication that would have been exponentially less devastating for everybody involved if thr Demigods just sat down and look at each other like actual family members

[atomic plinth]

Aye

[obtuse halo]

Huh. Browsing Elden Bling and someone performed something I once thought nigh-impossible:

[atomic plinth]

Blinded by dogmaticism and a thirst for some semblance of glory

[obtuse halo]

making a piece of the bull goat set actually look good

[atomic plinth]

The helmet looks fine, what are you on about

[frozen olive]

it's funny that ||Miquella was right on the money with the whole cursed bloodline of Marika|| and just like, came to the worst possible fucking conclusion as to what you can do about it

[languid tiger]

i actually quite like the bull-goat chest

because of the gnarled horn-pauldrons

[atomic plinth]

||"Man, my family lineage kinda sucks. Oh I know, I'll mind control the entire world, that's definitely not just as fucked!||

[grave plinth]

Honestly the Bull Goat gauntlets would look good with the horned warrior helm

[atomic plinth]

Aye

[gray leaf]

It's not 100% clear if that was the plan or not. Maybe it was? We just don't know.

It's certainly possible.

[frail sky]

😱

[gray leaf]

Also, the reason the smithscript cirques were so strong was in part because with swift slash they'd dash forward and then do a big AoE around you.

[frail sky]

(tbf the greaves looks alright with the scale armor)

[frozen olive]

not even that

[languid tiger]

tbh that's just swift slash

being fucking broken beyond belief

[gray leaf]

It's a noticably bigger AoE than with other weapons because you're throwing the blades around you, I think.

[frozen olive]

||Miquellas plan was just like, cutting out every part of themselves including their ability to feel love||

[grave plinth]

Yeah ||Midir Ymir has a habit of explaining things in the most ableist way possible||

[languid tiger]

yeah, but just using the regular backhand blade with it still does uh

[frozen olive]

||as if becoming a shell of a person, which notably is what Marika likely did to become a god, was somehow a smart idea||

[languid tiger]

like 3k dps

in a massive aoe

and super fast to start that dps

[atomic plinth]

...Darkeater Midir?

[grave plinth]

Ah sorry Ymir

[frozen olive]

||Miquella: wow i hate my mom, i should do anything possible to be different than her||
||Also Miquella: does literally the exast same thing as their mom except somehow actually even worse||

[atomic plinth]

Who's Ymir

[frozen olive]

the fingie dude

[atomic plinth]

OH, right

[grave plinth]

He frequently calls people "damaged" or "tainted" or other stuff

[atomic plinth]

Yeah I feel less bad about kicking his teeth in now

[frail sky]

Many such cases

[atomic plinth]

Showed that mf who the REAL sorcerer was

[languid tiger]

yeah fanatical cultists tend to have strong opinions on the right and proper way of things

[obtuse halo]

okay but Cherishing Fingers is weirdly kind of cracked

[frozen olive]

truly one of the cyclical moments of all time

nah i'd perpetuate the cycle of suffering

[grave plinth]

Honestly he sounds like a hack early psychologist

[obtuse halo]

Freud moment

"Tell me about your mother"

[grave plinth]

Nah before Freud

[gray leaf]

The theory is that this time it'll be less bad. It's repeating the old thing, but fixed. Which is arguably what happens when you use a mending rune, conceptually.

[grave plinth]

The kinda guys who thought beating mental patients was "thereapeutic"

[atomic plinth]

Eh, I prefer Thops' Barrier

[grave plinth]

That mixed with some like Victorian patriarchal pseudo-feminism and cultural appropriation

[frail sky]

You know, Ymir would fit well in bloodborne wouldn’t he. With the whole ||mother thing|| I mean

[frozen olive]

Surely this final act of incredible fucking violence will end the cycle

surely!

[atomic plinth]

Aye, aye

[grave plinth]

LET CHAOS! TAKE! THE WORLD!

[atomic plinth]

||...side note related to Ymir, why DID Metyr just immediately start swinging at us||

[frozen olive]

you've gone too far, go back

[grave plinth]

https://tenor.com/view/frenzied-flame-lord-of-frenzied-flame-frenzied-flame-ending-lord-of-frenzied-flame-ending-elden-ring-lord-of-frenzied-flame-gif-27647261

[frozen olive]

we don't need to ruin everything forever

[frozen olive]

||probably cause we invade her realm equipped with weapons and shit||

[atomic plinth]

...good point

[frozen olive]

||same thing with NK, we barge into their house with a loaded shotgun aimed at them||

[atomic plinth]

It's like asking why someone shot at the armed guy that showed up in their house

[frozen olive]

||very reasonably self defense||

[proven cloak]

||basically my understanding of it, yeah||

[grave plinth]

Oh wait ymir not metyr

[proven cloak]

very fitting for his character, though

[atomic plinth]

Nah Ymir's understandable for why he started swinging at us

[proven cloak]

"Unalloyed" mfs when the purity they seek scours away their selves

[gray leaf]

Some of this depends on ||whether you consider Metyr and the Fingers to be people in the first place|| which is, admittedly, a nontrivial question. ||I was going to say "no, they were just radios", but then I realized Metyr was probably a person judging by some of the descriptions. The Two Fingers are less clear, but they're described as great orators at a point presumably after they lost contact with the Greater Will... 💀||

[proven cloak]

I'd say ||yes||

[gray leaf]

I am now weirdly tempted to write a fic from the point of view of the Two Fingers, specifically the one in the Roundtable Hold.

[atomic plinth]

||THIS MF DOESN'T KNOW PURITY IS A MEANINGLESS CONCEPT THAT WILL STRIP AWAY ALL SENSE OF HUMANITY AND COMPASSION, LEAVING YOU WORSE OFF THAN BEFORE||

[proven cloak]

||The parallel between their search for meaning / messmer's desire to be accepted by his mother / people trying to hold faith in the shadowlands|| is well supported

[atomic plinth]

||Well she's not a person, she's a thing||

||A living thing, but a thing||

[atomic plinth]

||Eldritch and fathomless||

[proven cloak]

I do still think ||Miquella is one of the more moral Demigods|| though

probably top 2, top 3

[languid tiger]

||nah, can't be, Metyr's described as a fallen star||

||or well, i suppose she'd be a person, just not a human||

||my b||

[gray leaf]

||That does not discount being a person, depending on what stars are.||

[atomic plinth]

||Nah nah nah, cause she's very explicitly an eldritch being||

[proven cloak]

for me, this is more ||The Elden Beast||

[gray leaf]

||She's definitely not a human, but that's not the issue at hand here.||

[proven cloak]

||Since its basically the spirit of the ring||

[atomic plinth]

||Like, you don't look at Cthulhu and think he's a person||

[proven cloak]

while ||Metyr seems to possess emotions like resentment and longing||

[languid tiger]

||yeah you're right, i'm too used to people using the word "person" to mean "human" or at least human-shaped/humanlike||

||and so i made that leap and conflated it when you weren't||

[atomic plinth]

||...yeah I'm probably hung up on that too tbh||

[languid tiger]

||i thought you were saying "she used to be a human and is now this"||

[atomic plinth]

||Idk though, calling an eldritch being as incomprehensible as Metyr a person feels weirdly incorrect somehow||

[languid tiger]

||but i agree, she's definitely a person, even if she's probably completely incomprehensible to the human brain||

[atomic plinth]

||Being feels more accurate somehow||

[gray leaf]

||It's slightly unclear whether they're heralds of the Greater Will (who are still people), or basically just devices to transmit the voice of the Greater Will, like biological(?) radios.|| But some evidence points to the former.

[languid tiger]

||eh, nah, i disagree: anything with both intelligence and recognizable emotion is something i'd call a person||

[languid tiger]

i think the answer is both

[atomic plinth]

||Aye, especially since Metyr was described as clinging to hope that the Greater Will would contact her again||

[proven cloak]

theres interesting thematics if the second is what they want to be

[atomic plinth]

That's valid

[languid tiger]

and not getting to fulfil their role as the latter is making them feel extremely lost and afraid in the former

[proven cloak]

unfortunately, no life understands divine purpose

the thing with ||Metyr is, despite her origins, shes in the same place as the humans of the Lands Between re: 'What should be done next'||

it underscores the theme of ambition and visions for the world the game has

and imo ||the theme would be undercut if you treat the Fingers as too alien||

[gray leaf]

That's honestly quite reasonable. ||The follow-up question is: were the Two Fingers sentient people, or just ways to transmit the voice of Metyr?|| That one's also pretty vague, and more difficult to tell in general, since ||"greater will vs. not greater will" is a more clear-cut distinction.||

[grave plinth]

||They seem to have the radio bit built in but I do think they're beings with agency||

||If they are just proxies for Metyr it explains a lot more about why Metyr tries to kill you once you get a glimpse behind the curtain||

[proven cloak]

||In the absence of a clear overriding vision for the world (aka: God's shattered herself, and the universe isn't answering our questions) - what do we do?||

and I think each ending is an answer to that

[grave plinth]

||but this also raises the question of what is the Elden Beast? A more accurate Metyr?||

[proven cloak]

Ymir seems to think ||they've been abandoned by Metyr||

so the former?

[proven cloak]

||I think it relates to the Crucible, and it is the Elden Ring||

different functions, maybe?

||The Elden Beast seems to primarily regulate life through the Elden Ring||

||Metyr was supposed to be a guide, or advisor?||

she seems to be more agentive than it

[grave plinth]

||and who speared Marika and crucified her? The Elden Beast?||