Elden Ring (DLC hype room)

[golden pond]

knew it

i saw japanese and hten project

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKkHfkvpw34

fucking toby fox

[steel scroll]

yummy

[obtuse halo]

Man, i've been out of the Touhou loop. I don't recognize this character at all

[gray leaf]

So I'm looking at variouus Elden Ring shields to try to figure out how to blazon them (i.e. figure out the heraldry of various factions) and most of them are either far too complicated, far too simple, or just a unique symbol and not anything interesting to describe. But I did incidentally find this random greatshield which is interesting primarily as a curiousity: https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Crossed-Tree+Towershield

...also, read this vanilla item description, since it sort of indirectly supports my "||The haligtree was meant to die to give Miquella a way out of the Land of Shadow||" theory: https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Haligtree+Soldier+Ashes

[obtuse halo]

I've been fascinated by the shrouds draping over the land of shadow, from the scadutree out into the corners of the land

[kind garden]

the corners are at the Divine Towers' relative locations

[obtuse halo]

it's hard to tell but I think there are six of them and they're spaced in a way which suggests they might connect to the divine towers

yeah that

you might also describe them as baldachins

noun
plural baldachins or baldachinos
1: a cloth canopy fixed or carried over an important person or a sacred object
2: a rich embroidered fabric of silk and gold
3: an ornamental structure resembling a canopy used especially over an altar```

anyway this is why everything in the land of shadow has yes poise, it's all benefiting from a Baldachin's Blessing

[real shadow]

Honestly the best excuse I've seen for all that goddamn poise.

[obtuse halo]

jokes aside though, I'd like to call attention to the description of a certain remembrance weapon
||The head of a monstrous shadow sunflower manifestation of the Scadutree. Then again, it might be just a flower, wielded as a weapon. Much like the Scadutree itself in appearance, a second stalk winds tightly around the first, almost as if in a tender embrace.||

particularly the last bit

I don't have a proper conclusion here, but there's something going on with the living in death

[kind garden]

I mean, yeah, the stalk wraps around the Greattree of old

[obtuse halo]

and Fia's whole deal

[real shadow]

https://fxtwitter.com/MenasLG/status/1813388009997283515

[obtuse halo]

honestly I picture her with short hair

her close helm would make anything too long a potential problem and the lock coming out the back isn't her hair, it's Rennala's

[frozen olive]

yeah was gonna say

i imagine her with short hair cause of her helmet

[real shadow]

Leda shows you can have somewhat longer hair provided you braid it a certain way so I think left is viable.

[golden pond]

tie it up?

plenty of ways to have long hair and helmets

[real shadow]

I do like the right one a little more but this is entirely because of my one weakness: hime haircuts.

[obtuse halo]

valid

[golden pond]

right looks like shart

[signal harness]

What if it’s not a work saving shortcut and she just looks like that

[gray leaf]

It's worth noting that, for all his inclusivity, Miquella has a lot of stuff to stop Those Who Live In Death, and has prayed for Godwyn to die a true death (this is basegame). Not sure what that means, but it's there.

[covert schooner]

Btw

Is there any confirmation on what the fuck is up with the suppressing tower?

[languid tiger]

nothing hard

but it's probably one of the methods used for keeping the shadowed lands banished

[obtuse halo]

it says atop it that all manners of death flow here only to be suppressed, so it likely plays some role in that

[gray leaf]

for anyone wondering, the cuckoo knight heraldry would be described as gules and azure per pale, a cuckoo argent probably (not sure if you'd need to describe the cuckoo as pointing to the wearer's right, or if that would be implicit).

most of these are very distinctive signature symbols rather than just colors, but there's some simpler ones like the Blue Crest Heater Shield (which is... odd to describe because it doesn't actually look particularly blue and the "river" appears to have small border lines which I'm not certain how to describe, but it's at least theoretically simple) and the Red Crest Heater Shield, which is very simply argent, a chevron gules.

On a side note, I find it very interesting that the Beast Crest Heater Shield (and, similarly, the Tree-and-Beast Surcoat) persistently refer to that animal only as a beast, not as a lion (or lyon as the case may be).

[spring marlin]

lions have a specific narrative association in elden ring, specifically with godfrey and radahn, so i think it's more to avoid confusion with those and godrick's soldiers (depicting them as lower, perhaps)

although the tree and beast surcoat does mention it being an emblem of the golden lineage

[gray leaf]

I'm also tempted to refer to the various Erdtree charges as Erdtree vernal and Erdtree fundamental for the entirely-a-plant depiction and the highly stylized Golden Order Funadmentalism symbol respectively.

Everyone has unique crests, which is awesome, and they can get away with it since there's so few extant armies. There's only two shields with coats of arms that don't bear some sort of mobile charge, I'm pretty sure, and they're the two I listed above.

If anyone has any other elden ring heraldry-related images (I'm pretty sure there's a full Carian achievement with the supporters and helm and crest and motto and everything somewhere but this might be a false memory, or there might be something for some of the smaller castles and houses like Morne and Marais) kick them my way?

[real shadow]

https://www.reddit.com/r/EldenRingLoreTalk/comments/1dqs4he/the_suppression_tower_was_built_by_uhl/ Well, there's a direct connection wuth Uhl in the base game. Which raises...a lot of questions.

[grave plinth]

I mean if you did want to hide like a third of a continent, the Nox are probably the ones you want to go to

[gray leaf]

...I love that he's just named Elden John now.

[obtuse halo]

I've been meaning to compare Hornsent architecture with Uhl's for a while now, so this doesn't actually raise that many questions I think

[glossy delta]

Rauh and Uhl sound similar if you think about it 🧠
(I have not compared the buildings whatsoever in game)

[golden pond]

Rauhl

Rauhl... Sounds familiar

oh right, it's hte blue bastard from destiny

[obtuse halo]

There's also the similar Uld Palace Ruins in Liurnia, though those are rather less intact

which Rauh would more or less connect directly to if the theory about the land of shadow being the missing center of the map is accurate

[stoic sleet]

the vicomte de chagny?!

[golden pond]

the waht and hte huh?

[languid tiger]

do the uhl and uld palaces share architecture, btw?

[obtuse halo]

Yeah they're super similar

They're also similar to the unnamed ruins in Siofra River (not to the Nox architecture of Nokron though) and the ruins in the Lake of Rot

Oh, and Mohgwyn Palace

Incidentally, all of the Dragonkin Soldiers (minus the ghostly ones in the Snowfield) are found near places with this architecture

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/wbf99o/the_uhl_and_uld_dynastieslong_post/

here's a pretty cool reddit post that goes into it - whether you buy everything said or not, it's got a lot of nice screenshots showing details and comparisons

[stoic sleet]

i was making a very bad Phantom of the Opera joke; one of the characters is Raul, Vicomte de Chagny

[atomic plinth]

I don't get why the Watchdog Greatsword isn't a boss drop

You'd think that some watchdog in some catacomb somewhere would drop it as the reward but nah, it's a random drop from the three respawning watchdogs that have it

Very odd

At least it's an 8% chance, it's rare but it's not so insanely rare that I'll be here farming it for the next week unless I get unlucky

...well it just dropped so I guess I didn't get unlucky lmao

[grave plinth]

I think the Nox architecture actually represents a different era of the same civilization that made the Uld and Uhl palaces. They two connect to each other with far too much frequency to simply discount.

I think the Uhl and Uld made the original eternal cities, were destroyed by Malformed Stars, and the Nox culture emerged from the remnants and built Nokron and Nokstella

With the ancestral followers representing a portion of the population that instead abandoned letters and metalworking and fully embraced a neo-primitivist philosophy

[covert schooner]

what is uhl

[languid tiger]

one of the ruined palaces in liurnia

it's the one underground

with all the ants

[covert schooner]

ohhh yeh

do we have any idea who the fuck built it?

I guess mogwhyn palace is kinda built int he same kind of ruins

[grave plinth]

Some dynasty called Uhl

[languid tiger]

not much, but that's part of what's been discussed up there

[covert schooner]

since theure noticeably not like

nox

theyre

[grave plinth]

I personally think its a precursor culture to the Nox

Uhl/Uld civilization ruins connect to Nox architecture a lot, which makes me think that the Nox were living there already and just started building newer architecture over the old, which suggests a certain level of continuity between the two cultures

[glossy delta]

The claymen were associated with them back when they were still active apparently

[grave plinth]

Given how there’s more Silver Tears than living Nox, i think the Nox are like a monastic sect (they’re referred to as such even by their gear) that survived the Astels that ruined the old Uhl civilization

And they’re using silver tears to pad out their numbers

While the ancestral followers are descended from the Uhl/Uld who returned to a hunter/gatherer lifestyle.

The ancestor spirits appear to have been worshipped during the height of the Uhl /Uld civilization given how both are enshrined in ruins from that era and need to be awakened with rituals that explicitly involve Uhl/Uld architecture

What i think happened is that there was an ancestral Uhl/Uld root civilization that both had an advanced material culture and worshipped the ancestor spirit alongside whatever religious tradition the oracle bubble sorceries originate from. This civilization is banished underground for defying the Greater Will and builds the foundations of the eternal cities and is later destroyed by the Malformed Stars teleporting into their cavern cities. The survivors diverge, some returning to a neo-primitivist lifestyle while others going full force on being sorcerous weirdos.

[atomic plinth]

Y'all got any advice for ||Promised Consort Radahn||

I kinda just want this fight to be done and over with

This is just such a terrible fight in general

[real shadow]

Lots of people, myself included, go with turtling behind a great shield and poking with a spear.

Barring that, he's reasonably easy to parry and while there's a ton of visual noise his attacks are consistent so if you get the pattern down you can dodge a lot of it. I am not that person, as mentioned above, but after watching other people fight him I've got...a better idea, mostly, of how he functions.

[atomic plinth]

Issue is, I suck at parrying

Eh, I've been meaning to learn, now's as good a time as any

[old brook]

The fact ||he can swap targets mid light-clone combo|| is horseclown nonsense

[real shadow]

I recommend just watching his fight, honestly. That ended up being pretty illuminating on how the fight works.

[atomic plinth]

||The fucking lasers he summons with every swing in phase 2 is more bullshit imo||

[old brook]

it's all happening at the same time is the real kicker

The true path is ||Deciding the Leda Encounter is the ultimate fight, and fucking off to make a Carian Death Knight|| /nod

[obtuse halo]

Yeah i won that fight somehow with my caster build and sighed in relief when i got the last bleed to trigger

Bow-only has been rough

Stuff is dodgeable and there are openings but it’s tough

[frozen olive]

if you wanna see some absolute shit watch Ongbals no-hit sl1 no blessing fight with that boss

probably could cop some moves off him for how to dodge certain things

[atomic plinth]

Got a link?

[glossy delta]

What kind of build are you running
I had An Approach but it requires faith and arc

[gray leaf]

I just realized something rather important. Remember the birch bark scroll? ||"A lord will usher in a god's return, and the lord's soul will require a vessel."|| Which begs the question: ||If Godfrey was the first Elden Lord, then who was the vessel for his soul? Or what about... whatever's going on with Radagon?||

[frozen olive]

||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeBOIYnVq54&t=174s||

[atomic plinth]

Thank you Freyja

[frozen olive]

seeing that RL1 no blessing puts the fear of the gods into me but Ongbal got it

absolute godly shit

[atomic plinth]

INT/FAI/DEX/STR

I'm like level 250something

[glossy delta]

Do you have at least 16 arcane

[atomic plinth]

I do not, why

[glossy delta]

Oh 12 actually

For Rot Breath

[frozen olive]

but yeah this vid is not going to like, solve the fight for you cause you need to be kinda diff to do that shit, but it is a fantastic showcase of just dodging everything the boss throws at you

every little bit helps i feel

[glossy delta]

Look this is what I did alright ||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgIr8PdoWfM||

[obtuse halo]

This is achievable by any character with the outer god talisman

[glossy delta]

||Focus solely on statuses and black flame application cuz they are all % based and wholly disregard how much health he actually has||

[frozen olive]

i won by doing some Jolly Co-operation

[obtuse halo]

No class has less than 7 arcane

[glossy delta]

Considering the two NPC summons you get are ||Bleed Guy|| and ||Poison Guy|| this almost feels intended

[obtuse halo]

Lol

I used Scarlet Aeonia for the boss

[atomic plinth]

Maybe my issue is I'm summoning them and not actual players that are probably competent at dealing with the boss

[obtuse halo]

And thorn sorcery

[frozen olive]

summoning a player can def be helpful

but they need to make up for the ||extra 25k health that adds||

[glossy delta]

You def need a Plan if you want to summon the NPCs
They need to do something for your strategy rather than just be bodies
Cuz they double his health

[frozen olive]

which is also why summons make it vastly more difficult

[frozen olive]

yeah, which is not the greatest when ||he has almost 50k base health||

[glossy delta]

For me, they ||pulled aggro and helped with status while I did big % damage spells||

So they were useful

[frozen olive]

makes sense

[glossy delta]

But if you just wanna sword him to death they are a hindrance

[atomic plinth]

And this is NG+ for me so it's even more than that for me specifically

[obtuse halo]

I used one of them to help me set up some big damage but two is way too many

[frozen olive]

yeaaaaaah

RIP

tbh

[modest berry]

||https://x.com/o0Platinum0o/status/1813582579423183309|| late-ish dlc spoilers

i want this so baddddd

[atomic plinth]

Ironjar aromatic recipe located

I am one step closer to ultratanking

[frail sky]

🤫

That name is a spoiler

[atomic plinth]

I mean

Technically it isn't

But I get what you mean

[atomic plinth]

||W H A T||
||https://youtu.be/WkIAQrqg4ek?t=97||

YOU CAN DO THAT???

[median rock]

which part? ||dark moon destroying incoming projectiles or Miriam's vanishing into backstep? the latter requires the new backstep talisman iirc||

[languid tiger]

||i assume the ai break with the dragonbreath||

[real shadow]

yeah what the FUCK is up with that

[languid tiger]

need to be grounded

if you're in the air for long enough, the attack loses tracking

[real shadow]

lmao

that is SO SILLY

[languid tiger]

weird bug

[atomic plinth]

||The Dark Moon bit||

[median rock]

nah it was timestamped to smth else

[languid tiger]

oh, it starts from the beginning when i click it

[median rock]

yeah dark moon doesnt eat spells like darkness or smth but it destroys other magic projectiles it collides with

[languid tiger]

did both when i originally looked and just now when i double-checked

[median rock]

try casting it at rennala phase 2 and watching it just eat her glintstone stars or smth

idk if it's an intended use as much as it is a hitbox conflict but

I think full moon does too

[median rock]

yeah yt timestamps are ass, I just noticed its timestamped to 1:37 via the url

[languid tiger]

that makes sense

i see the t97 now

[median rock]

||honestly I thought that was an issue w taking damage before the meteor part actually starts, or something, and it breaks it out of animation||

||with the hitbox being the whole path of the animation or something janky. losing tracking makes way more sense||

[languid tiger]

||yeah, i don't remember the exact explanation, but the way the attack recognizes and targets a player is ground-based||

||so if you jump at a very specific time, or more generously do a suspended aerial spellcast/aow (somehow), you can break that targeting and he stops the bomb||

[real shadow]

Probably has something to do with tracking.

[languid tiger]

that's what i said yes :v

[real shadow]

I wonder how that works with co-op. Would both players have to do that at the same time?

[median rock]

I dont think anybody really knows for sure how tracking for long windups attacks works

theres any number of times you see a boss start a grab or smth only to pivot 90 degrees mid animation

so you'd probably just have to test on that specific attack a couple times to be sure :)

[stone cove]

Hoenstly, i'm just impressed at hte Raging Beast part

[vivid spire]

Oh my god

[stone cove]

a AoW i desperately wanted to like, but the commit was so fucking long

[vivid spire]

If he can do it..

God I need to actually beat the final boss

[stone cove]

even though the freaking dunk kick was so sweet

Oh, @vivid spire hang on a mo, i have a writeup i did yesterday that'll help

maybe

[vivid spire]

!

[stone cove]

DLC final boss tips and tricks (mild spoilers for NPC summons):

Grab a greatshield, or failing that the Brass shield. Make sure it's maxed out. Carian Thrusting Shield also very good, but isn't a 100% physical resist and needs you to be more proactive. 100% physical resist (or as close to in case of Carian thrusting shield),

Greatshield Talisman (Altus Plataue)
Pearlsecnet Shield Talisman (Southwest of Taylew's Ruined Forge site of grace, in a chest in the camp)
Curved Sword Talisman (In stormveil) or Spear Talisman (If you're using a CTS or a pokey weapon)
Double Headed Turtle Talisman/Turtle talisman to get your stamina back fast (remeber to drop your shield)

Make sure your Scadutree blessing is at least 15, and ideally get it to twenty.

Optional, but useful: Barricade as your AoW on your shield. If you're going guard counters, maybe keep a misericorde with the highest ar you can get as your off switch for critting him with. Shield Grease is also great as an alternativ if you can be arsed farming the materials.
Learn how to craft Hefty Rot Pots - you can get a bellbearing that sells you fly mold, and the otehr ingredient is easily farmed by riding around on torrent in the Ruah ruins area where you get the Hefty Rot Pot recipe.

Heavy armor. Don't even care if you're fat rolling, you're not planning to roll here. Though med rolls are also fine, you're mostly planning to endure shit. Opaline Hardtear in your physic. Deflecting Hardtear if you feel confident on reflexive blocking - Just block when you see na ttack coming and hold the block. if you get it right, hey, it minimizes the stamina loss and boosts your guard counter! if not, who even cares you still block.

||Start the fight by shoving a rot pot in the bosse's face (+1 pot per summon). Then bring your shield up and rain down hell on his ankles. In phase 2 it'll take 2 hefty rot pots to proc scarlet rot (+1 per summon), but given these will carve off 30% of his hp alone per rot proc, this is worth. If you're using a bleed weapon, bring Ansbach, as he does provide a lot of bleed pressure and the added boss hp is negated by the rot pots and bleed procs. Likewise, pick your ash to benefit - Dung Eater should do well here, being tanky and having a useful damage boosting debuff on the boss, as well as being decently physically resistant.

The boss cannot crit you if you g et stance broken, so just block everything you can, and if you get stance broken... block again asap, who the fuck cares.

Lord's Divine Fortification is a good body buff that'll also dramatically reduce incoming holy chip damage. Golden Vow also reduces damage taken and boosts damage done, while stacking. Casting all of this and summoning dung eater is very FP intensive, but hey. Feeling extra spicy? Forget about Lord's divine fortification and pop Ironjar Aromatic (They're both body buffs, so they dont stack).

Point of all this is that stacking resistances dramatically cuts your damage taken, and the boss is designed in such a way that he heavily punishes anything that's not perfect rolls... and is resultingly very weak to Just Fucking Tankin It's Shit.||

[signal harness]

might wanna spoil that

[stone cove]

ah, crap, you're right, gimme five seconds

[signal harness]

nw

[vivid spire]

Hmm

I’ll have to fundamentally change my build

But screw it

I wanna win

[stone cove]

There we go, should ahve the important bits spoiled.

@vivid spire What's your current build?

Because you may not have to fuidnmentally change, you can just swap bits in

Like the firsttime i did it, i just swaped out Milady for for CTS and stabbed the bosse's ankles to death

[vivid spire]

Mainly caster

Faith

[stone cove]

Ahh

[vivid spire]

Uhh I don’t remember my current incantations

[stone cove]

Don't Give Up, Skeleton!

E's resistant to Holy and Slash, weak to Pierce, Frost, Hemorrhage and Sacrelt Rot.

Sadly no exact data on what his resists are.

but Knight's lighting Spear or Giantsflame Take Thee should both be good for Fuck Em Up

If he's weak to pierce he's probably weak to lightning too, because those are uslaly paired weaknesses in the game

(Fire and Slash, Pierce and Lighting, Magic and STrike)

Holy is off in a corner going I AM THE MOST RADIANT SPECIAL BOY.

[real shadow]

I'd maybe switch out the Pearlescent with Golden Braid since that's a 22% vs holy at all times, not just guarding.

[old brook]

You were at my side, all along..

[stone cove]

shrug It really depends what you're doing and how - that is very much a "I am assuming your shield will be up 99% of the time"

There's a reason the advice includes "Consider ironjar aromatic" 😛

[real shadow]

It does, but 2% extra and applies if your shield isn't up for whatever reason. More a safety.

[stone cove]

Yes, but less magic resist for blocking his magic attacks, and holy is only in phase 2

[real shadow]

I feel the holy is more the worry, given how much of a ball-buster phase 2 is.

[stone cove]

I'm pretty sure the ||Gravity magic attacks are magic damage, but i'm seeing them listed as physical damage here||

[kind garden]

Impenetrable Thorns + Staff of the Guilty

[stone cove]

Yeah, that's the other way to do things, just wompwompwomp with Impentarreable throns

[vivid spire]

Is that faith or int

[kind garden]

Or, uh, Albinauric Staff

it's Faith

but not a lot

[vivid spire]

Wait they added a faith staff

[stone cove]

fwiw, i think you'd get more out of a Blood Milady than an Occult Milady

[kind garden]

it's basegame...

[stone cove]

but Blood Milady needs lots of dex investment

[kind garden]

anyways, use the Albinauric Staff or the other ARC staff from the DLC you get from Ymir

to get bleed scaling on your ARC stat

you're mother fucking welcome :o)

[stone cove]

(Blood Mildy gets some arcane scaling, but mostly just has very solid dex scaling while also applying bleed, which milady does ver well due to it's attack speed)

Though io prefer Keen just for the raw AR and the ability to gut a jerk like they had it coming

[old brook]

Currently usin' a Cold Milady and the dex scaling is SO GOOD and wow damage

[stone cove]

If i had two miladys, i'd probably make sure i had a Bleed/Cold and a Keen one

and just flip between them

[real shadow]

I wanna say they're phys? Rock Sling and other gravity spells do phys.

[kind garden]

It's weird that certain elemental infusions are Dex or Str biased

[vivid spire]

Is the rest of my build ok

[kind garden]

them mothafuckas are not pure phys

[stone cove]

@vivid spire It looks good to me

[real shadow]

Didn't say they were, only that they do phys.

[old brook]

I love that the spell where you use magic to alter gravity is called 'Rock Sling' and the spell where you pick up a boulder with your bare hand is Stone of Gurranq~

[stone cove]

It's a rough fight, it's totally okay to have trouble with it, i honestly think it has design issues and is kinda overtuned

[kind garden]

everything looks fine on that build except MAYBE the Radagon's Icon but that's up to taste

[stone cove]

The real crime is that rock sling did not summon a giant magicval slingshot to fire the rock with

[old brook]

Carians just getting all Green Lantern-y with it

[kind garden]

I would personally take something that increases HP

[stone cove]

I mean, hitting the 70 cast speed dex cap is amazing, but you wanna actually hit that.

[real shadow]

I don't know the exact breakdown for split damage on those spells but they sure do a buttload of phys so I suspect the magic side of the split isn't all that much. You are just summoning rocks and chucking them.

[old brook]

There were definitely how my first Wizard beat any Astel

so there's at least a good physical in there

[kind garden]

I guess if you're casting a lot, hitting castspeed cap is schwaggy

[stone cove]

As i belive we did a breakdown in here a while back where there's a fairly noticable difference in 60 to 70, just because of the way frames get removed

I just enjoy how snappy it makes stuff like Messmer's Orb

is it good ior not? WHO CARES ICAST DUNK

[old brook]

Wait, Rock Sling goes farther with Arrow's Reach Talisman? Sure

[kind garden]

tap casting dunk is real strong already tbh

[kind garden]

b'whuh

the fuck

[old brook]

it's wiki info so vaguely untrustworthy but /shrug

[real shadow]

The really funny thing is how it just keeps going if you're casting it from high up and trying to 3-point shot something from down town

Same with Cannon of Haema.

[old brook]

Sometimes the rock wants to return to space

[real shadow]

And sometimes the rock wants to hit whoever was trying to fight Malenia and you're casting it from above her arena.

[vivid spire]

Maybe I’ll remake my pyromancer build

I do like messmers orb

A dex faith build could work

Also throwing the blackflame is too slow

[real shadow]

https://fixupx.com/EldenringAlerts/status/1801556325299900732 Which I'm gonna bring back because this is still really funny

[stone cove]

70 dex really do be helping with that.

[vivid spire]

Dex faith..

Maybe it’s just a skill issue

[stone cove]

You can do it!

Enby power!

I am also enby, and i have beaten him twice.

THEREFORE

i belive in you

and you can also stab the final boss to death

that's how it works

BE QUEER DO CRIME

[vivid spire]

MESSMER ORB SPAM

[vivid spire]

70 dex, 50 faith ?

[stone cove]

Very solid!

@vivid spire Personally, dependo n your talismans, i would aim at 75 dex, 45 faith, assuming you have Prothesis Wielder's Heiloom

that gets you to 80 dex (the AR cap) and not a huge loss in faith

[kind garden]

I would've stuck with the ARC bleed build for that boss...

[stone cove]

I mean, you can still actually go bleed won milday with that

[vivid spire]

I would need enough for 60 faith for the orb

I’ll stick with bleed midday

[stone cove]

At 80 dex/10 arc, you're looking at 572 AR for Keen milady, 660 AR Lightning Milday (But split damage), and 486 AR for Bleed Milady with 83 Bleed build up

and every bleed proc is going to do 10% of the bosses health, which probably makes the Bleed Milady pull ahead if you can keep the pressure up

[left willow]

What do people think about the Perfume Weapons from the DLC?

[stone cove]

Uh, i havent played with them much

They were briefly horrifcaly broken

Beyond that i havent really played with them

The poison one poisons you with it's weapon art, which... is actually somewhat useful in the right cases? (Exulation of Rot)

Firespark hits 560 fire AR at 80 dex

whic his... pretty interesting for 1 weight

But hoenstly they mostly felt like a sidearm option

[left willow]

Seems like you could do a funny Blue Dancer build, but idk

[stone cove]

Maybe? blue dancer basically requires you to be naked for any real return

Oh, no, it would not work at all

lol

[left willow]

Oh, right, duh

[stone cove]

Blue dancer charm only works on physical damagew

[left willow]

lol

Phys damage

Oh, it's also based on actual weight, not on % of max load as well T^T

[stone cove]

YUP

Blue Dancer Charm is just hilariously bad

it's first cap point is 8 weight

And when you want light weapons etc, you're probably already wanting to go dex and use the Rotten Winged Sword + milcent's proth, so... uh

like nearly half your fucking avalbile weight goes on your talismans already

[median rock]

its only viable on literally naked runs using minimum weight weapons

[glossy delta]

The thing that really surprised me is that the Backhand Blades are only 2 weight for some reason
So they're very real as a blue dancer option

[stone cove]

if you go for the more respecftable 16 weight soft cap... yuou get a .09x daamge bonuis

I mean, it's up all the time, which is good

[left willow]

And it's only like 15% 🙃

[stone cove]

but.

[glossy delta]

They weigh less tha the beast claws

[median rock]

therefore daggers or martial arts, basically. you can technically get a decent global 8% buff but thats it

lmao ofc u can't hades

the weight of itself factors in

blue dancer and literally naked gives at best like a 14.5% boost

and it doesn't go up from there!

[stone cove]

Yeah, it's just badly designed

[left willow]

screams

[stone cove]

It is absolotuey one of those "Oh, the dark souls version scarred you all"

[median rock]

but yeah in practice if you stay at no more than 8 weight, which is basically a zero weight seal + a single 1/2 weight weapon, you have around a 13.5% damage buff

[stone cove]

I think light weight is already incredibly restricive as a build approach

[median rock]

this is basically never worth doing compared to using talismans that grant a 20% damage buff for doing X thing, even on RL1 runs, since you're better off with either ritual sword (10% at full hp) or red branchfeather (20% at low hp), since those apply to all damage

[stone cove]

and it's just hilarious that one of the suppsoed "light weight" talismans is so, so bad.

[median rock]

they would technically stack but you'll run out of talisman slots quick so

[stone cove]

and every time you add more weight, it gets worse!

[median rock]

i wish it was both a global boost and had a slightly higher threshold

like, 25 or something where 15 weight was at 12% or something instead of 9%

[glossy delta]

If it was global then at least you could do some dumb stuff with blue dancer + two hand sword + holy scorpion coded sword
(I still need to do holy scorpion coded sword at some point)

[stone cove]

http://darksouls2.wikidot.com/flynn-s-ring

[median rock]

i mean go for it

[stone cove]

This is the orignal version, which had an interesting thing of it being based on your max Equip load.

[median rock]

coded sword still has weight iirc

[glossy delta]

Especially now that theres a really mean holy miracle also

It does but it has barely any

[median rock]

cipher pata is the weightless one

[stone cove]

where if you had more than 60 equip load max it started getting penalized

[glossy delta]

Yeah but the cipher pata suck

[median rock]

i mean it has 2.5 which is about as much as most light weapons

[stone cove]

It also gave a flat bonus instead of a % bonus

[glossy delta]

Fist Moveset Moment

[stone cove]

whcih is, depending on various htings, hilariously hilariously strong

Amusingly the new "Pata" weapon in teh dlc is actually relaly good

because it's Fist moveset... with Longsword reach.

...and you cant infuse it to keep it's kicakss default ash of war, because fists arent allowed Impaling Thrust, it's starter

which fuckin' sucks 😦

Otoh, Keen Pata with Beast Roar g ood for upsetting invaders/hosts.

[left willow]

Oh, the Power Stance move hits like a gorram truck (according to videos I just watched)

[stone cove]

Power stance move for which weapon, Hades?

[glossy delta]

I repeat my refrain of Fist Moveset Moment
I was not a great fan of the Pata when I found them
Its not even the range really, lots of really fast low damage low stagger attacks just dont really do it IME

[left willow]

Perfume bottles

Oh, the conversation moved on while I was looking up videos and putting a build into the calculator

Sorry

[stone cove]

Make sure the video is Up To Date

because the recent patch "Fixed" (read nerfed the shit out of things)

[median rock]

did it affect perfumes other than rolling sparks?

i don't think it did?

[gray leaf]

Perfume bottles... from what I understand, the fixes were serious real bugfixes for stuff that very clearly wasn't supposed to be behaving the way it was... but without those, they were bad.

[gray leaf]

I think they mentioned something about lightning and frenzyflame perfumes occasionally double hitting?

[frail sky]

I thiiiiiiiink they get a boost to damage from the perfume talisman so it’s closer to 672 effective ar

[left willow]

I was less talking about damage and more about stance break

[median rock]

to be clear the glitch was that you could aim the ash of war down, allowing you to stack up every explosion hitbox in one space rather than them spreading over like ~8m

the other values for perfumes should be unchanged

[frail sky]

Oh wait it’s 15% not 20%

[left willow]

Which (from what I can tell) didn't change on the powerstance attack

[median rock]

huh i never really felt like it was a lot of poise dmg using them

[frail sky]

644 then

[median rock]

w powerstanced ||frenzy||+fire perfumes

just died to my mimic tear while trying to style on him

fuck

that's a sad death

[left willow]

And perfumer armor gives additional damage with the perfume weapons, iirc

[median rock]

it shouldn't?

[left willow]

Oh, you're right

what was I thinking of?

[median rock]

there's a bunch of other armor sets that do

well, not a ton that are full sets that all boost it, but various pieces that boost X thing. rogier's set boosts all weapon-skill magic damage by 2% per iirc, alberichs boosts thorn sorceries by 6% per, etc

either rannis hat or her whole set boost frost sorceries i think

[stone cove]

They do! i just forgot about that, lol

[frail sky]

Admittedly a lot of weapons just get a +15% damage buff now with the two handed talisman

[left willow]

Just the Programmer Socks Hat

[frail sky]

Just the hat thankfully

[median rock]

twohanded sword is 10%

not 15% thank the lord lol

i think fextra has said both at different points tho, but i swear i tested and it was 10%

[frail sky]

Odd, I tested it and it did 15%
Maybe it affects certain weapons differently? Or maybe it was nerfed

[median rock]

hm i was testing with DLC boss spear, so its weird moveset may have fucked with things

(and/or i hit something with stealth bonus?)

if it really is 15% that's ridiculous lol

[left willow]

Does anyone know if there's a place to demo what various gear would look like together?

I have a desire to FashionSouls, but am bound at work

[median rock]

if u have a brief pile of requests i have almost every equip set in the game right now, but idk any online ones

i found https://elden-ring-planner.vercel.app/ this before, but it doesn't show you what your dude looks like in 3rd (not surprising)

[raw coral]

not sure if this is the right place to ask, but Has anyone been experiencing the game starting out smooth, only for the fps to drop out of nowhere and stay permanently lowered?

[left willow]

Mainly I want to see if there's any dress or dress-adjacent armor that matches with Ranni's hat.

Cause I like the hat, but the rest of the set is a 6/10 for me

[median rock]

sounds like something sprang into rendering distance that's really fucking you up - what area are you in?

possibly a waterfall or smth?

[left willow]

(And dress go spinny)

[median rock]

hm, blue silver set maybe

not super dress-like though, it's more a navy cloak over some silver mail

[stone cove]

or the warrior set? i think it's warrior

[raw coral]

I’m well aware of stuff like fire and waterfalls lowering performance, but what I’m experiencing has me stumped

[stone cove]

Nobel';s traaveling garb could also work

Preceptor's long gown

[raw coral]

Like, I boot up the game and continue my fight with malenia, everythings running like butter

[left willow]

It's super Blue and Leather to the hat's White and Cloth, imo

[median rock]

noble's garb hoenstly isn't very dress-shaped

and the color is more bone or off white than grey-blue

[raw coral]

and then randomly in the middle of an attempt I drop down to like 50 or 40 fps with microstuttering even though nothing’s changed and it stays that way

[median rock]

consort's robe is the same, official's robe is a little too blue

(switched to a lighting that's not as gloomy but now its yellow tinted :()

[left willow]

ty!

[median rock]

deathbed dress, marais robe, dlc spoiler NPC armor

marais is actually pretty good imo

traveler's clothes isn't awful

[left willow]

Yeah, Marais looks the best, I think.

I wish that we had more "sets" of stuff that was color-planned to work together

[median rock]

deathbed dress w some arm bling isn't awful either, i suppose (i know i sent a pic of it above but i like how the lusat's bling works)

[left willow]

Imagine a set of heavy/metal armor with the fabric pieces color-matched to ranni's gear

[median rock]

dlc midboss spoiler gear, perhaps? if you're interested in non-dress things

[left willow]

me, when I need to ride a horse, but also not get my hips whacked:

[median rock]

real

[median rock]

lmaoo wtf it just started happening to me as soon as i hit halfway through castle sol

but way more drastic

like i go to pick up eclipse shotel and suddenly i'm runnign at 4 fps, and then right as i kill niall right now same deal

[gray leaf]

Regrettably this is a meme, but check raytracing?

[median rock]

5 seconds later

[gray leaf]

I think it's been randomly turning itself on and tanking frames?

[median rock]

like those are two images taken 5 seconds apart and its advanced maybe 10 frames

[raw coral]

if you go back to an area that was smooth previously does it still persists?

[median rock]

no i'm just straight up frozen and can't do anything, since my game is so laggy

i'm guessing this is probably a newly added problem in places w vfx that don't despawn or something? cuz castle sol isn't actually bad for particles, since i think the particles from snow are a visual overlay rather than rendered particles?

[raw coral]

I saw someone say it could also do with the interval for EAC server check

[median rock]

just a guess because it happened when i walked through one of the kneeling ghosts you can talk to in the sol altar, and also when niall began to explode into particles

and yeah my gpu would be and is fine with raytracing but i have it off for ER

[gray leaf]

Thinking about the post-DLC list of ||characters who actually like the Golden Order in its current form, and... I was about to say Godrick, but not even him, really? He wants it to go back to how it used to be except that his understanding of it is so revisionist that it's exactly counter to how things used to be. Maybe Morgott? Who's horribly mistreated by said order? ...Maliketh? I can't really think of anyone else off the top of my head.||

[raw coral]

||Gideon||

[gray leaf]

||I suppose, yeah. He disagrees with Marika, so it's tempted to discount him on that ground, except that Marika also dislikes the current state of the Golden Order and... well, everything.||

[raw coral]

||“I commend your spirit, but alas, none shall take the throne. Queen Marika has high hopes for us. That we continue to struggle. Unto eternity.”||

[gray leaf]

||I mean, he thinks he agrees with Marika. He's just completely and totally wrong.||

[raw coral]

yeah lol

all-knowing my ass

[kind garden]

Gideon's a fucking idiot

[gray leaf]

In his defense, most characters are.

Very much not in his defense, he doesn't realize that fact.

[kind garden]

||I've struggled to interpret this line: "Queen Marika has high hopes for us. That we continue to struggle. Unto eternity." Is he implying that he thinks the Elden Beast fight is so impossible that the Tarnished are just eternally screwed?||

[gray leaf]

||No, I mean... I think he knows that Marika started the Shattering war basically on purpose, and therefor thinks that war is what she wants, and refuses to accept the idea that she expected anyone to win said war.||

[median rock]

i interpreted it as gideon being content with the way the world currently is w.r.t. an effectively infinite trickle of tarnished vying for power

after all, isn't that what let him sit in such relative authority?

[gray leaf]

Okay, fair, yeah. He's actually happy with the current world order.

[kind garden]

wow he really is the worst

[gray leaf]

He somehow hasn't figured out that a few rooms away is someone that Marika ordered to forge a weapon that can kill a god.

[kind garden]

okay but like

real shit

would Gideon lower himself to talking to Hewg

I doubt it.

'cuz he's a daft cunt

[gray leaf]

Talking to? Probably not. Listening in on? Possibly.

[kind garden]

the all-knowing asshole is a funny character when you look at his actions, MO, and goals

like he truly is the high king of fucking nothingsville and relishes the opportunity to spy, plunder, and take every opportunity and scrap of knowledge or power that liberates itself into his grasp while doing sweet piss all himself

[vestal night]

I mean he also more or less says it directly
He doesn't think a Tarnished can become a true Elden Lord

So it's pointless to try

[gray leaf]

One could argue that much of the fromsoft series in general is about people vying for the position of High King of Fucking Nothingsville.

[kind garden]

I mean yeah it's a recurring theme because it's the logical end of power that has no purpose

kings of no realm, who have no interest in building, only ruling over whatever it is they can extend their grip to

[dusty kraken]

The funny thing is that while he shits on the grafty boy? He's likely more of a useless fuckwit than Godrick

Godrick, for all his dumbfuckery, is activley trying. His forces are fighting, they're trying to defend the territory they have and Godrick is seeking out more materials to improve himself and his army.

[kind garden]

Godrick has a vision, goals, not great ones and his methods aren't photogenic but he's actually building something

[gray leaf]

I hate that you're right about that.

[vestal night]

Tarnished: I think we should end the war
Gideon: And yet you participate in it. I am very intelligent

[kind garden]

Gideon is the Platonic embodiment of Fromsoft greater-scope-villains who embody power that has no purpose, no goal, no end or vision or state that it brings the world to except further ruin

[dusty kraken]

Heck, Gideon can't even keep the allies he has. He throws shit away pointlessly or if they even question his goals

[gray leaf]

It's sort of countered by the fact that he describes his actions as a return to the Golden Order of old and maintaining the Golden Lineage while, at the same time, doing things that are basically the exact opposite of what the Golden Order started from.

[kind garden]

Miyazaki's been hammering that drum for a while now

[dusty kraken]

Godrick, for as much as he's bad? He's likely got a half-decent claim to that 'lord of all that is golden', as his plan when things go bad is 'Adapt and try to incorporate something new to salvage the situation'

The thing that made the Golden Order strong in the first place

[kind garden]

the greatest conceivable threat to humanity (and sometimes people that aren't humans, too!) is power that has no purpose

[gray leaf]

Especially since he doesn't even have that much power. He represents it, sure. He talks like he has it. But, in practice? He has no control. He's not even actively perpetuating the war or anything! He's just sitting there going "hm, yes... I am very smart".

[dusty kraken]

I think it sorta shows in how he Knows A Lot of Spells but all of them are pale imitations of the originator.

Like, he's not even managing to outdo the Most Divorced Woman with his Comet Azur and she's an entirely mortal human.

[kind garden]

like, something that Armored Core For Answer lays out and shouts very fucking hard (and early!) is that the worst, most nightmarish thing that can exist isn't a corporation or a political league because those things wield power on behalf of other human beings for a reason, they have goals

[dusty kraken]

It does more damage than hers because he's a much later game boss but it's a much less useful part of his toolkit/he can't use it as well as she can.

[kind garden]

and the political grandstander Otzdarva will panic and come flying after you to murder your ass if he senses you're the thing worse than the bastard conglomerates he hates: power that serves only power itself

[gray leaf]

...he's copying the biggest spells of characters. Lemme check something quick.

[kind garden]

the Old One in Demon's Souls is basically just that written as large as possible, but unfortunately scale actually undermines the writing there because it comes across as an allegory for organizations that wield gigantic, overwhelming power

the power-for-power's-sake antagonists work best when they're twisted little creatures, like the daughters of Dark in Dark Souls 2

[gray leaf]

Gideon Ofnir is copying some of the strongest spells from the kits of other characters. Exclusively the strongest spells. He knows what power looks like, and knows how to copy it, but he doesn't in any way understand it.

[median rock]

oh, realized i forgot to send the pic of the blue silver set -

just for completion's sake

[kind garden]

funny thing about Gideon actually - his staff channels some kind of fucked up unique magic that's never seen anywhere else

[gray leaf]

Plus his infamously long monologue. Gideon Ofnir isn't even a power-hungry king of nothing. He's a fanboy of them. Even, or especially, when they don't exist.

[kind garden]

completely unique sigil, unique effect, weird color that isn't shared by anything else

[gray leaf]

And it debuffs the user! Not sure if it sucking is a statement in some way, or just... it is what it is.

[dusty kraken]

Yeah like...to go with one example: He's got Scarlet Aeonia. The terrifying spellt hat destroyed Caelid.

...it's also a highly telegraphed nuke that really isn't why it's user is dangerous.

She's a danger because she's a terrifyingly good swordswoman. The rot part is mostly a secondary thing.

[kind garden]

I mean, it's funny, because from a position where you're already winning, Knowledge Above All is stupidly strong

it's a +15% damage buff on top of every other buff in the game when you're using magic or holy attacks

[gray leaf]

It's at least interesting that he knows Black Flame Ritual apparently, though.

[dusty kraken]

Likewise, Comet Azur is another nuke...but notably, the Most Divorced Woman casts it really quickly compared to him and sustains it long enough that it's going to rip you in half.

He doesn't have the ability to sustain it and he casts it a lot slower. He's got the spell but he's not actually as good with it.

[kind garden]

Gideon's clearly knowledgeable but not capable

[gray leaf]

Plus, she has summons.

[dusty kraken]

Yeah, the couple of times I"ve died to her it's because 'dammit, get out of the way dragon...oh fuck laser'

[kind garden]

I guess Knowledge Above All kinda sums it up, in a sense? If you already know enough to control every variable, there's no danger to yourself, so who cares if you're debuffed

You're already going to win.

[dusty kraken]

...man, if he didn't monologue he'd genuinely be a lot bigger a threat.

Like, you don't know he's an enemy at that point.

[median rock]

yeah if you fuck up the first battle already he's instantly 10x more deadly on the repeat attempts

[kind garden]

yeah he's actually shockingly dangerous on the runback

[gray leaf]

Gideon has some close-range defenses, but those... actually, I just realized that the only thing he has to stop you from hitting him at close range is Black Flame Ritual. His other close-range spells keep you away solely by dealing damage to you, but they don't really stagger.

Law of Causality? Seriously?

[dusty kraken]

If he didn't feel the need to ramble and just like...opened up with Scarlet Aeonia or Comet Azur like he does on the runback he'd be a real danger.

[gray leaf]

It does knock people away... after being hit 5 times.

[dusty kraken]

I don't think I've ever been tagged by it.

Like he's cast it

[median rock]

its quite good against multihitting weps

[dusty kraken]

But most of the time when it triggers I'm rolling or throwing something at him etc

[median rock]

i've eaten it instantly after jump powerstance curved swording him

since that shit hits like 4 times per jump attack

[dusty kraken]

Ah, that'll do it.

[kind garden]

but yeah it is very strange that he's got this weirdo personal flavor of magic

[dusty kraken]

Give this man an Actual Sword 😛

[kind garden]

like if anyone is the type to just whip out some unrelated bullshit no one's ever seen before, it's Gideon

but uh

what is he cooking?

other than despotism

[dusty kraken]

...ironically, since he loves grabbing only the Biggest Spells, if he grabbed some smaller ones he'd be a lot more threatening.

[left willow]

oh HELLO

[kind garden]

what the fuck is the Realm of the All-Knowing bud, you familiar with a third-party outer god or something?

[left willow]

any chance you'd show that from the back?

[median rock]

yeah lol i couldn't find it and realized i didn't actually have the full thing

[gray leaf]

Maybe something from... wherever his homeland is??? I have no clue.

[median rock]

and so that actually set me on a side quest to go to ordina liturgical town, involving grabbing both haligtrees halves

and then i forgot to just send the pic

[dusty kraken]

Like if he had Bloodflame Talons from Mohg instead of Bloodboon or Gelmir's Fury instead of Rhykad's Fury he'd have some actual 'keep them off me/get them away from me' tricks.

[median rock]

flat black from the back

[left willow]

I do really like that overall,

thank you :)

[kind garden]

Bloodflame Talon a little smelly

[left willow]

I guess I'll have to go farm some archers

[median rock]

can alter to remove cloak

[kind garden]

apparently Gravitational Missile is the new king of all anti-approach sorcery

[median rock]

if you haven't done latenna quest u can reportedly just murk her lying down and she'll drop it

[kind garden]

you just stand in the gravity well and gloat

[median rock]

like before u start her quest

otherwise i can also drop u a set rq

[left willow]

I did do her quest

[median rock]

RIP

wiki said if u murk her before starting it she drops it, but im pretty sure that only applies while's on the ground there to kill

[old brook]

Wait how do you kill her after that's a no-weapon zone

oh haven't done nevermind

[median rock]

yeah u gotta just walk up and it's on sight, i guess

[left willow]

I can poke you when I'm next free, but it will probably be 24ish hours

[dusty kraken]

Alt Universe Competent Gideon: "Hey, I've got Waterfowl Dance, Bloodflame Talons, Gelmir's Fury and Discus of Light. Spells from the same places but Actually Good."

[median rock]

yeah just ping me or dm me whenever u hop on ER and ill probably be able to hop on to drop it at least

[kind garden]

Sub waterfowl for Pest Threads

[dusty kraken]

Yeah, Pest Threads is actually a spell.

[median rock]

i think i have a second char who hasnt even talkde to latenna actually... maybe ill test this kill-her theory

[kind garden]

And it actually goes insane too

[left willow]

tysm!

[dusty kraken]

You know what the silliest shit is with his fancy scepter?

[left willow]

Pest Threads is my (not-so) secret anti-Forge Golem weapon

[kind garden]

Bonking people with the Smart Guy Stick?

[dusty kraken]

It reduces holy and magic resistance.

Scarlet Aeonia: Physical.
Bloodboon: Fire
Rykhard's Rancor: Fire.
Black Flame Ritual: Fire

[left willow]

It seems like it'd be pretty silly for a Prophet playthrough

[kind garden]

The only ones he gets bonus damage on are Comet Azur and Triple Rings right

[left willow]

"I cast WIGGLE!"

[dusty kraken]

He's got a couple more magic ones and law of causality is holy damage.

But like a full 60% of his Big Doom Spells are not affected

And both Comet Azur and Triple Rings are taken off the table if he's unlocked more spells.

[median rock]

to be fair his comets are arguably the most lethal out of the pile

except possibly triple rings

[dusty kraken]

Oh yeah, it's not entirely useless

[kind garden]

Triple Rings is actually a good spell

you can cook with that shit fr

[dusty kraken]

Pity he loses it if you've beaten multiple bosses XD

And like 'Scarlet Aeonia' is not a good tradeout for it.

[kind garden]

Elden Ring is weird with spells

more stat investment translates to more specialization rather than outright strength

which is weird because of how Comet seems to be a series of ascendingly strong missile attacks, for example

[left willow]

I do wish that the "efficiency" of spells didn't get so damn bad at higher levels

Cause even at a 6 red/8 blue split, I feel like I don't have enough mana to be using some of the really big spells, especially into really high hp bosses

(Might just need more than 30 mind tho)

[median rock]

random thought, dlc final boss spoilers: ||i swear that they should probably be worth more runes than they are. theyre around the same amoutn as fire giant, which while maybe close-ish in terms of progression is wildly different in terms of actual difficulty + the difficulty of the steps to get there, arguably||

[median rock]

at max flasks (+12), that's 38 mind's worth of FP - so if you're totally empty, then one blue will refill that to full. for it to be 3/4 of your fp bar (more realistic), you'd need 50 mind. for +8 flasks (so like, halfway-ish through the game) that's 32 and 41 respectively

thats honestly not super attainable outside of ng+ though since thats some expensive levels that could be hp or int

[left willow]

I'm at +12 flasks, dealing with DLC bosses. They just feel like I need Glintstone Cometshard or better for efficiency

[median rock]

then yeah, shy of overleveling or ng+ theres not really much you can do about that

[left willow]

I mean, pretty sure I'm at overlevel anyways, but fair enough

[median rock]

are you using magic scorpion talisman + magic tear? i assume the latter at least?

[left willow]

My main complaint is that the super high-level spells (like 50+ int) have a really bad damage/fp ratio

So I use lower "level" spells cause I can get a lot more damage per mana bar

I swtg I'm this close to just making the damn chart myself

I want to figure out the exact damage-per-scaling on all the various sorceries, but only like... 5 have a definitive answer screams

[median rock]

https://jerp.tv/eldenring/spells/

personally i almost always ended up using either night comet, night shard, icecrag, or pebble - not because i woudl run out of fp but because the other spells sucked period i think. but i also played my first and only mage build on release and i know a lot of the shittier spells got buffed

[dusty kraken]

the new 'constant restoring FP' talisman I think also makes ineffeciency less of a concern now.

Like you can blow through less effecient spells as long as you've got enough FP to finish the fight

It makes bottles more of a strategic level concern with FP than a 'every battle' concern.

[left willow]

Maybe? Let me math rq

+12 Blue restores 220
30 mind is 173
C.A.M. +2 = +11% (19 fp)
Means that if I have 30 mind, the fight would need to take... just north of 2 minutes for it to be worth relative to just pumping a Cerulean Amber Medalion +2

(Assuming I blow through 4 or more flasks, which is super typical)

Oh, wait, I'm talking about it boss fights

I understand now you were talking about exploration

Sorry

[dusty kraken]

Yeah, sorry. I was considering how a pure mage build ends up bleeding flasks just Getting Places.

[left willow]

Oh, yeah, totally

I honestly run... like 5 or less reds, cause I have enough Faith to cast Heal so I can top off between fights

And I have the blue jewel so HP is much more precious than FP

[dusty kraken]

I might end up transfering the talisman over to a new character next time I do a Pure Caster.

[left willow]

(I also have the bastard's stars, so I've got that going)

I don't think I could do pure caster, tbh

I always need a backup weapon

[dusty kraken]

I did it a while ago but the character kinda stalled out/I ended up mostly beating things with the Sword of Night and Flame. XD

I might try a more genuine pure caster some time.

[median rock]

night shard/comet is pretty insane on some humanoid bosses

malenia doesnt like it at all

[left willow]

Oh, I mean, that's what I kind of do. I have my spells to pick off stragglers or get early damage onto nasty enemies, and then for explo mode I'll 100% just close the distance and then just hit them with my orrery

[median rock]

but yeah i pity the fool who tries to full caster rykard or something

[left willow]

Oh fuck that shit

That'd be so bad

genuinely AWFUL

[golden pond]

It wasn't that bad

[left willow]

Ok, I'm finally watching Shen's playthrough of the DLC and she's just to ||Divine Beast Dancing Lion|| and it's so funny to watch someone struggle even more than me

[left willow]

Were you absurdly overleveled or something? I did basically no damage with any of my spells

[golden pond]

Black flame

[left willow]

Oh, yeah, that'd do it, ig

[golden pond]

Did it for funsies
It's agony

[median rock]

to be fair shen has never been described as amazing at video games

[golden pond]

2.5% hp damage 😭

[median rock]

i think the closest was the yakuza 'speedrun'

[golden pond]

I was watching their randomizer with rtgame

Seeing him go "this boss is strong"
While spamming carian slicer
And not rolling out of the super clearly telegraphed attack
Just kinda made me realise how that kind of comedy is just not funny now

[left willow]

I'm also pretty sure that Powerstance Melee is much harder than cast into ||Divine Beast Dancing Lion||

.... Can we all just agree that it's ||DBDL|| from now on?

[median rock]

powerstance melee builds are probably op in every single situation ever as long as u know what the openings are and are willing to run bleed

but i dont think much is dethroning magic or RKR giant crusher for one button builds, tbh

[left willow]

Sure, but into ||DBDL||, melee seems harder than mage, what with its ||load of close-range, wide path|| attacks

[golden pond]

https://youtu.be/Tf19JyPzyzc?si=HzzofNO-F1l1xIAn

Now that I think about it, this is easier lmao

[left willow]

Oh, I've never seen that summon. I should probably find and acquire

[golden pond]

Ogha is peak

Don't like using her

Now these boys

[left willow]

Oh, nvm, I have her, I'm just a Lhutel simp

[golden pond]

Peak

Godrick and Radahn soldier ashes

Radahn boys are busted for anything weak to fire

[left willow]

I'd imagine XD

I just spam Magma Shot cause it's disgustingly effective for that purpose too

Oh, I need to go ||Kill that poison variant tree snake/dragon thing in the DBDL castle, I totally forgot||

I've cleared pretty much everything else in there

[median rock]

||the ulcerated tree spirit in the mini poison swamp? or something else i missed||

[left willow]

I never remember what they're called XD

[median rock]

ya just checking

because i didnt remember a dragon lol

[left willow]

They aren't dragons, but they aren't snakes, but they aren't ||tree sentinels|| so my brain gets frazzled

[golden pond]

I thought that was Dead By DayLight

[atomic plinth]

...man

I wanna get the Leather set

But I don't wanna kill Patches

[left willow]

Shen just used the "When I left my home today, I was thinking "Damn, I hope some hot chick paints my brain all over a random hallway"" sound for [Castle Ensis] ||Rellana|| and it's SO true

[atomic plinth]

Wish I could just buy it off him

[atomic plinth]

Shen is a goddamn icon lmao

[left willow]

What does this mean?

oh, wait, nvm, I figured it out

[golden pond]

Why not

[left willow]

the guys in the flamehead tank things being "forklift certified" is so damn funny to me for some reason XD

[atomic plinth]

He's a rat bastard fucker but he's MY rat bastard fucker

[left willow]

I really need to move his quest along

[median rock]

my motto is "if they would gladly kill me, i will gladly kill them"

[golden pond]

Kill em

Get the leather set

[median rock]

considering patches is one of the few characters that i can honestly say "he made a real spirited effort"? goodbye baldy

[atomic plinth]

Mean to him

[golden pond]

Take his bell bearing to twin maiden

[atomic plinth]

Mean to the FACE of FromSoft

[golden pond]

It's like he never left

[golden pond]

That's toes

Feet are the face of fromsoft

[atomic plinth]

...tbh, if there's anyone that would respect the hustle of killing a man for his drip, it's Patches

[median rock]

listen after the Spider Body Incident patches deserves way worse

[atomic plinth]

I'm sure he'd laugh his ass off and forgive me in heaven

Or hell

[golden pond]

He's not going to either

[atomic plinth]

...yeah he's going to hell

Lmao true

[golden pond]

He's gonna be alone in the void

[atomic plinth]

Nah I think he'd swindle his way into both

[median rock]

i wish more games had marvelous chester expies

[atomic plinth]

Just skip between em as he pleases

[median rock]

instead of only patches

:(

[left willow]

He's currently ||still in Volcano Manor|| for me

[median rock]

simply throw firebombs in from the doorway or something if that counts as a safety zone

[left willow]

I could also align via telescope and then just cast spells

or Arrows

[golden pond]

Kill rykard

You cant kill patches in the manor

[atomic plinth]

God and I KNOW my Dane hat would go IMPECCABLY with the Leather chestpiece

[golden pond]

After Rykard, Lord of Blasphemy is defeated, he will move to the Shaded Castle, on the bridge leading to Elemer of the Briar.

[left willow]

People who don't use spells and/or haven't seen spells running into Raya Lucaria for the first time and just getting bodied by the random casters is funny to me

[left willow]

hmm, if you're on tomorrow night, I can clap my patches and give you his armor

[golden pond]

😳

[left willow]

🗞️

[atomic plinth]

Eh, nah, I'll get over it

[left willow]

I truly despise the man, and I don't think his leather armor looks like anything particularly castery, so I'd be willing to pass it off to you

I'm just at work rn so I can't get it until I'm home

[atomic plinth]

If you're sure you wouldn't mind, then I suppose I can't say no

Thank you Hades

...don't really have anything to offer in return though

[left willow]

You're very welcome :)

[left willow]

Offer to enjoy it, I don't need anything back :)

Oh, unless you have a spare Clayman's Harpoon, cause I need to farm for those

[atomic plinth]

I might?

Unsure of that

[left willow]

(If you don't, literally don't worry about it)

[atomic plinth]

Whattya need em for, a certain fit?

[left willow]

nah, they're just an greasable, int-scaling weapon I don't have yet

I really wish they would give us the scholar's books

[atomic plinth]

Agreed

[left willow]

I just wanna hit someone with a tome

[atomic plinth]

Agreed x2

[left willow]

though (and hear me out)

It'd also be cool if it was a shield

so when you blocked, it projected a sort of barrier

Hm, if there were more water-themed spells or weapons, I could see a fun "Harpoon + Net"-style build being visually interesting

Harpoon and 2 bubbles only, I think?

[golden pond]

There's the horns

Horns are fun

Also throwable dragon harpoons

[left willow]

Horns?

[left willow]

I forgot about those!

Oh, wait horns as in Envoy's (/Long/Great) Horn?

[golden pond]

yeah lmao

https://tenor.com/view/skeleton-trumpet-gif-4622525

[left willow]

I don't generally think of them as water-themed, but I guess I see it

I still think my fav character in the whole game is POPE TURTLE

(he's a dog)

[left willow]

Does anyone have a succinct explanation of the different "generations" of Albinaurics?

[steel scroll]

1 - no legs
2 - no tongue
3 - not yet

[stone cove]

First gen: Have legs that don't work, lifespan is connected to their legs, when the legs go, so do they. No clarity on who/what created them. Treated somewhat poorly, subject to a lot of prejudice

Second gen: Have the frog heads. Working legs. Mostly created by places like Raya Lucaria, treated very poorly by well, everyone - basically slave labor. I got the vibe they have a shorter/more disposable lifespan

They're hated because as lifeforms created by human hands, they're viewed as impure and untouched by the Erdtree's grace.

If you look at where they're found:

-> Concesncrated snowfield, they're trying to get to the Haligtree
-> Alburanic Village a (supposed) safe harbor, currently being genocided
-> all over liurnia, literally created/dumped there by the Wizards
-> In parts of Leyndell, probably as second classcitizens of some kind or slave labor
->In Volcano Manor, being tortured by things (Rykard lead the Inquistion before he got all... sneky)
-> Mohgland, under mohgs thrall as an alternative to the Haligtree. Promised power, basically.

[left willow]

Followup, but unrelated question:
Misbegotten and Demi Humans? What's their deal?

[languid tiger]

this bit isn't 100% true, since we see gen1 albinaurics a bunch that never had working legs

like the wolf archers and ||Gaius||

[languid tiger]

misbegotten seem to be directly connected to the Crucible

they have mutations and a primordial power from a deep attunement to it

and have a mysterious and confusingly alluded-to connection to Radagon

(which possibly also means a connection to Giants, because the shared red hair is directly emphasized more than once as important in-setting)

[stone cove]

Albus directly says that their legs andl ifespan are linked, it's very clearly stated. That doenst preclude them ahving legs that never work, it just means their legs act like fucking werid candle wicks and slowly vanish over their lifespan.

[golden pond]

didn't the mohg boys get there trying to get to the haligtree but took wrong tp?

[stone cove]

We're never given Clarity on the MOhg boys, they're presented as supplicants

[languid tiger]

ah, the physical reduction, yeah

demihumans we have extremely minimal lore on

but all of it is incredibly tied up with astrology

thanks to the dlc

in the base game, what little we knew was that demihuman queens are sorcerers

looked down on by Raya Lucaria and other places of "educated" astrologers

but that they are quite adept themselves

and, through boc, that they're perfectly able to speak the Lands Between's human language(s?)

the dlc adds some cryptic fucking nonsense that keeps me up at night

about the Procession of Stars

what is that?

we don't know!

[stone cove]

Also that relationships are possible, it's not an either/or thing - like the Demi humans at Fort Heigh are pissed because one of Godrick's soliders (Amusingly implied to be under Mohg's thrall) murdered their queen.

They still trust Keith Heigh, but don't trust you

[golden pond]

will say

love the demi humans

[languid tiger]

just that all demihuman queens are seekers

[golden pond]

love taht they just gave them names of other bosses (at least for morgot and the other one

[languid tiger]

for the end of the Procession of Stars

and that they often send knights to search for that truth in the enlightenment of sorcery

one demihuman knight successfully found or divined that end, saw that it would "lead to ruin", and locked himself deep in the earth to prevent that...fucking somehow

extremely minimal information on demihumans, their culture, and their goals

but what's there is very interesting to me

[left willow]

Yeah, they seem like a pile of questhooks in a trenchcoat XD

Ok, further question: What is the crucible?

[languid tiger]

i know less about this one than there probably is, but

in summary: Life

[steel scroll]

It's the throne of want. Dark Souls 2 man sat on the throne and wished he was in a better game and that made elden ring happen.

[languid tiger]

the Primordial Crucible is...the first and greatest fountain of welling life

it's responsible for a lot of mutation and evolution we see in ER

basically all of it, in fact

[languid tiger]

dogshit taste detected

anyway

[languid tiger]

"This is a manifestation of the Erdtree's primal vital energies - an Aspect of the primordial crucible, where all life was once blended together."

don't take for a guarantee the fact that the Crucible and the Erdtree are fundamentally intertwined

i wouldn't say that they aren't

[left willow]

Ah, ok, it appears to be either an early Erdtree analogue or just straight up what the Erdtree was before [something]

[languid tiger]

but ER likes to very obtusely talk about times before the Erdtree

when "the power that became the Erdtree was something else", when "there existed a power before the source of the Erdtree", etc.

but it seems to be part of the same raw aspect of "Life upon the Earth"

[left willow]

Also, conjecture on the interwebs appears to be "it's what the Erdtree was before Marika snagged the Rune ||of Destined Death|| out of the Elden Ring"?

[languid tiger]

as opposed to life/existence from the Stars, or from the realms of Outer Gods, etc.

[languid tiger]

"In an age long past, before this land was enshrouded in shadow, the vitality of the Crucible flourished. Remains of this can be seen in the ancient ruins."

this is from the SotE Aspects

and that kind of implies a fundamentally different existence to just "the same thing without Death"

imo

[left willow]

Yeah.... do we know what caused the Shadowed Lands to become Shadowed?

[languid tiger]

it could be

nope! i thought the Suppressing Pillar was part of it

but the architecture's similarities with the oldest civilizations we've seen in the setting lean away from that

[left willow]

Oh, how do Beastmen come into this pile?

[languid tiger]

it doesn't necessarily mean that's incorrect, because it could be something Marika repurposed, but i doubt it

it probably has something to do with the physical veil over the scadutree, though

which looks to be anchored to the Divine Towers, in that its corners directly match up to the directions of those towers

and the towers are like

the points whereabouts the land has been obviously shorn away/fucking banished

[languid tiger]

dunno that one at all

i'm entirely unsure whether we have beastman lore

and how much if we do

gonna have to wait for someone else to come along for that one

[left willow]

Spirits of beastmen from doomed Farum Azula, the slowly crumbling ruins in the skies. These ruins are said to be the remains of a giant mausoleum enshrining an ancient dragon, guarded by chosen beastmen who wield weapons clad in lightning.

Curved greatsword of colossal size forged of dull iron and wielded by the beastmen of Farum Azula.

The blade is incredibly heavy, but well-balanced. Comparatively easy to wield for the damage it delivers. It's clear the beastmen possess knowledge beyond human ken.

Shield fashioned from a tall broken jar carried by the beastmen of Farum Azula.
There is a particular knack to wielding it.

The beastmen have always fired earthenware jars for the express purpose of making shields.
Such are their ways, strange though they are.

This incantation represents the fury of Gurranq, his bestial nature returned, as much as it does his restless agitation.

Having gained intelligence, the beasts must have felt how their wildness slipped away as civilization took hold

It is said that in the time before the Erdtree, stones were the first weapons of the beasts who had gained intelligence.

Long ago, Gurranq was a beast of such terrifying ferocity that his former name meant "Death of the Demigods."

This is all the item lore, don't know if there's NPC-delivered lore

Seems to be that they are oooold allies of the dragons?

[languid tiger]

gurranq is probably a "beast" only in the same way as blaidd is

both being Shadows of their empyrean

[stone cove]

Which we have like zero fucking lore on

[languid tiger]

but that also adds questions

[left willow]

gfdi

[languid tiger]

yeah lmao

[left willow]

Gurranq appears to be considered a beastman... but idk if he actually is?

[stone cove]

Welcome to elden ring where the lore's made up and the results dont matter

[left willow]

fuck me

[stone cove]

okay, i'm being pissy there because i'm having a bad night, but this is the fundmental failing of how From handles storytelling

on the one hand, you get lots of cool speculation and it makes it feel like a world with actual history and shit

on the other hand, you have exactly fuck and all to go on with answers

and you have to wade through a bunch of youtuber theories mindlessly repeated whiule being wrong (Seriouslyh Vaati, check your fucking sources properly)

[left willow]

I'm trying to learn enough of the like... Established "racial" lore to answer player questions

[stone cove]

Well, you're fucked then

if you're doing this for a TTRPG then klike, make up your own answers

[left willow]

Apparently. Seems like a good time to HC some stuff, write it down, and treat it as canon

[stone cove]

Sorry, but you are genuinely up a creek here, the game is not setup in the least to make a good setting f or ttrpg running (imho)

[languid tiger]

eh, i disagree

you just have to accept that you're working with smaller packets of information

than the massive sprawling amounts of lore in a lot of ttrpgs

and you can use that as it is, or expand on it yourself, and both are kind of classic routes in tabletop gaming

[left willow]

I think the world has enough pillars to build on, despite lacking some other foundations. (Just means I have to make them myself)

[languid tiger]

ye

from usually, at least, establishes enough groundwork to make its settings work

[golden pond]

Limgrave also have farum azula architecture iirc

implying farum was more or less in that area, most likely just floatin'

[languid tiger]

and then branches off with "answers that generate more questions", minor tidbits to flesh out the history or geopolitical environment, and character beats

[stone cove]

I'm not gonna bother to put the energy in to debate why i think it's a bad idea, honestly

[golden pond]

or i'ts just in denmark

[left willow]

Ah! Old Zealand

I mean, my personal planning is already
a. Players have received some degree of Guidance by Grace.
b. This has collected them in Limgrave ahead of a major skirmish between Godrick's Soldiers and Raya Lucaria's Soldiers
b.1 I have slightly altered the setting such that Raya Lucaria is very much more a symbol than an actual base of power for the people left in Liurnia.
c. They're going to get a little bit of playing around in Limgrave before it erupts into chaos and war. Players will be able to pick a side and drastically influence the war or say "fuck this" and get outta dodge

[As a further note: I have expanded the overall map of The Lands Between and made the factional cold war a LOT hotter.]

[This game will be taking place post-shattering, but pre the events of Elden Ring proper, so players will not have the ability to take on demigods in combat and def cannot become Elden Lords/Ladies]

[chilly forum]

I’ve done Elden ring like settings in my ttrpgs before with great success mainly because I give PCs just enough information to not only make chracter’s but also navigate the world. If they want to learn more they have to actively search but at the same time i craft it so that if they don’t it doesn’t matter per say. Just so long as they get enough context to what’s going on and helpful or unhelpful NPCs to guide the tone of the setting.

[left willow]

@atomic plinth if you're awake, I'll be on for 60 minutes, otherwise, it'll be around 15 hours until I'm next available

[left willow]

gfdi

[Shadow Keep] ||The flooded section can bite my toes||

[frozen olive]

lol

[left willow]

ok, I'm actually stumped here

I may need guidance, if someone is available

[frozen olive]

sure

what's up

[left willow]

I quite literally cannot figure out where to go from the first site of grace in ||the shadow keep's flooded area||

I'm moving laundry, then I can hop on and stream if that would be more helpful

[frozen olive]

sure

it's a pretty easy way to go but it's sort of weird to spot

i can help out

[left willow]

in SSC

[atomic marsh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgc0UxwbQC4

I feel like Igon has broken containment enough that spoilering is unessecary here

[covert schooner]

Absolutely lol

[atomic marsh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlZnnH7Cnds

Some boss and area spoilers in this

[covert schooner]

My friend and I came up with a really extra sad interpretation of Messmers fight
||he specifically needs to stop a tarnished from becoming lord because if you do, if you prove that you don’t need the light of grace or the approval of the masses to become their lord, it means everything he went through wasn’t necessary. He could have made it. He could have had the birthrite he was denied because of his heresy. And you’re living proof.||

[grave plinth]

yeah that's my read too

||He's pissed because if you become Elden Lord then it means Mother Marika valued you more than him even after all he's done and all his atrocities in her name were for nothing||

[covert schooner]

||it’s why he curses her in his last breath, because he realizes he was never anything but a tool. That she ruined him and he loved her for it||

[grave plinth]

||He and maybe Queelign are perhaps the only members of the crusade who still harbor any positive feelings for Marika||

||Which is why every church and idol they built to Marika is a crumbling ruin in contrast to otherwise very well maintained fortresses and encampments||

||Save for a single statue in Messmer's boss room||

[covert schooner]

||I think it’s this very sad thing that we see the person he could have been, on occasion. He creates the storehouse, he wants to preserve the knowledge of this land, he treats the jar abominations and seemingly wants to find a way to reverse the process. But Marika turned him into a weapon, so none of that will ever matter||

[grave plinth]

||Yeah i have no doubts that if he hadn't been exiled he probably would have won the Shattering||

||His legions are just like, miles above everybody else||

[covert schooner]

||its also crazy that the final boss fight armor implies that Miquella has essentially done the same thing to Malenia and Radahn||

[kind garden]

||More or less||

[covert schooner]

||turned them into weapons for his cause, and in doing so destroyed anything they could have been, in another life. He’s singlehandly responsible for the statement of the shattering||

||stalemate||

||there’s also this awful realization that Malenia probably is charmed||

[grave plinth]

||What's impressive about the crusaders is, despite being a penal legion, they've been deployed longer than any other lordsworn armies and they're still operating at a higher capacity than any of them||

[grave plinth]

puts the Millicent questline in a whole new light

[kind garden]

||Considering Malenia showed up to kill Radahn and said "you WILL kiss the golden boy", yes, she was most likely charmed||

[covert schooner]

||which puts her total lack of ambition, and repeated ruining of herself, in an extremely fucked light. Both of the scarlet blooms change her forever, ruin her, and it wasn’t even of her own will||

[languid tiger]

||they definitely have the most intact leadership||

||messmer, rellana, all the black and red knights still organized within camps||

||as opposed to just scattered remnants of everything other than like, leyndell patrols||

||radahn's military is the next closest thing, but they're leaderless and have been stuck containing the Rot||

[grave plinth]

||Arguably the Cuckoo High Command is still operating at peak capacity but even they don't control most of central Liurnia, only the cliff roads and the academy gate town||

[covert schooner]

Also man, Miyazaki’s anarchist themes still fucking going strong

[kind garden]

say it with me class

power without a purpose, that's the greatest threat

[covert schooner]

||Miquella is deadass thematically a huge “your intentions, good as they may be; don’t matter. You will kill and crush the people who believe in your, to pave a pathway to your throne. And you will abandon everything that makes you a good person on that road”||

||you cannot be a good ruler. It doesn’t exist. You will always become a monster, eventually. It’s why the hugely thematic ending of the game, Ranni’s, is literally about abdicating the throne||

||its what ainsbach’s quote is about! The gods cannot have the best interests of men at heart, no matter how kind they are. Because they will always, always care more about their own goals.||

I just love the fromsoft catalogs continued theme of this

That you can’t fix the world by conquering it

All the way back to the start!

Gwyn ostensibly had extremely good intentions

But he ruined everyone he was responsible for because he got scared. He was no better than the dragons, no more capable of letting go of his stagnant world

And the people who are capable of saving the world, or moving it towards repair, in fromsoft games, are always the lowly and the broken
Every fromsoft protag is generally a hated pariah class

Sorry for the rant, this shit gets me going

[kind garden]

no you're correct it's just hard to add something

[covert schooner]

It’s such a strong theme in their games

[kind garden]

I think something that's really important in Elden Ring is that the people trying to help the downtrodden start out full of good intentions and STILL slide into stagnancy and rot or into full on tyranny

Or get coopted by someone worse.

[grave plinth]

Tbf the Dragons in Dark Souls are extremely weird and to the extent that they have an agenda that agenda just seems to be “Exist”

They’re outside the paradigm of souls and cycles

Which is why so much of their worship seems to involve hunting dragons to become dragons

[covert schooner]

Oh yeah absolutely

Which is why you have to give up that power
You have to help without controlling

[kind garden]

dragons are always a weird note

their whole thing is timeless perfection that can never be reached or touched

[covert schooner]

I think they’re supposed to be a thematic mirror of Gwyn

They were incomprehensible, incapable of understanding the world of the flame
The same way that Gwyn is incapable of understanding the world of the dark

And ultimately he ends up creating a world very close to theirs

One of eternal stagnation, without progress or time or life

… huh, Miquella has some thematic mirrors with Gwyn

That’s really interesting

||both become the thing that they oppose, and both end up resorting to essentially a curse to get their way and manipulate people into being about their world||

||I also think it’s really interesting that Leda is the climax of the DLC. That, almost similar to Gael, the fate of the world is decided in truth by men, not gods||

[vivid spire]

Got the thorns

Did they get patched

[kind garden]

Nah

You just need to hit all 3 point blank for peak performance

[chilly forum]

this VA is going to get so much work now, hopefully

[vivid spire]

Thorn spam got me to second phase

Should I try blocking

[kind garden]

yes

[vivid spire]

How should I do this

Shield in one hand staff in the other

[frozen olive]

probably a nice idea

[vivid spire]

Where does my seal and sword go

Or should I just ditch the sword

[frozen olive]

second slot

[kind garden]

second slot yeah

[frozen olive]

i have four weapons equipped on my character

shield, seal, greatsword, spear

[kind garden]

I mean you could hardswap grindset

but like

why

[frozen olive]

yeah not worth it

[covert schooner]

Man my friend and I might not actually beat the boss of the dlc

We might just call it quits here lol

[frozen olive]

i went for the Jolly Co-operation strat personally

[vivid spire]

But that adds hp right

To the boss

[frozen olive]

i'm going to actually skill the boss at some point with no summons but today is not the day

yes

i summoned people and practiced the fight until i found one that helped me win

[vivid spire]

Hmm

This isn’t working

I’m barely scratching him

The bleed burst comes in too slowly

I’m not sure what I’m doing wrong

And my incantations do awful damage

[kind garden]

how many casts of Thorns does it take to proc a bleed

[vivid spire]

Like

Four

Or three

[languid tiger]

against who?

[vivid spire]

Not sure

[kind garden]

the one boss everyone has troubles with

[languid tiger]

ah, dlc finale?