Elden Ring (DLC hype room)

[golden pond]

competes with other body buffs like flame grant me strength, howl of shabooboo, boiled crab and barriers

also baldachin's only lasts 15s

radiant is 70 but man

[dusty kraken]

I stand by 'I wish all poise bonuses were not percentage based'.

The Radiant is 1/game. Let it actually...work with light armour.

[real shadow]

Yeah 81% wouldn't even turn 30 poise armor past 51.

[golden pond]

30*1.81 is 54.3

[real shadow]

You see why I got a D in Statistics.

[golden pond]

I never did statistics 😭

[real shadow]

Actually wait it was a C-, I got a D in Spanish.

Would've had a B- in stats if the professor actually curved grades and also hadn't decided to do a "new and novel" final.

[golden pond]

i got a B in maths for my GCSE

most of my math knowledge is from games

[real shadow]

Same.

[golden pond]

i really wish all games just said what increse it is

Greatly increases negation

difference is 2%

like ok

when i say i wanna be greatly richer, lcearly i don't mean 2%

[real shadow]

Fromsoft likes to do that in what I assume is making players figure things out themselves.

Which like, PS3 era? Fine enough, that takes longer to find the info on and has a certain level of fun to it. But uuuuh people datamine this shit within hours of release, c'mon now.

[golden pond]

it's one thing i like about convergence and reforged (i think reforged does it)

they straight up say what shit does

[stone cove]

Iirc it's also because of localization reasons and making it easier to patch

It's not unique to from, but it is immensely frustrating

[golden pond]

i guess adding in a reference tag system to descriptions would need a full rework

[mellow silo]

Time to go fuck with Latenna

I got the secret medallion before talking to her, this should be interesting

[obtuse halo]

Unfortunately if you have both halves of the medallion before meeting her it breaks her quest

She just doesn’t appear

[frozen olive]

tfw i find the albinauric woman

[mellow silo]

Wait what happens if you have the castle Sol half but not the Albus half

I assume the same thing?

[obtuse halo]

Oh god i have no idea

[mellow silo]

Welp that's what I'll do next playthrough

Will be interesting to see if I get invaded by Ensha, too

[golden pond]

yes

probably

[mellow silo]

Welp, I visited Latenna

As previously said, she was gone, but the Ash was still there

Which raises new questions, will it let me summon Latenna for the big albinauric?

[golden pond]

sol half is left, right?

[mellow silo]

Correct

[golden pond]

spawned it
no roundtable invade

[mellow silo]

Go find the albinauric woman

[golden pond]

what grace is she next to

[mellow silo]

Slumbering Wolf Shack in southern liurnia

[golden pond]

worp worp worp

"waas my other half on loop"

imma go kill sol guy and see if picking up triggers a flag

rip

and triggers invade

so yeha

Picking up Castle Sol medallion half will just kill latenna and trigger invade when oyu get to roundtable

[trail sail]

Makes sense

[mellow silo]

Now to find out if you can do this and still summon Latenna for Big Albinauric

[golden pond]

i cannot touch big woman

because i guess i haven't started the quest, since i never talked to her after picking up the 1st half

and i cna't

caues she's kinda dead

So that's a Somber Ancient Dragon Smithing Stone you can get locked out of

and there's 2 ancient dragon smithing stons you can get that you also get locked out of if you progress far enough

nepheli's questline gives 1 and yo ucna buy another from gestoc

lock out point is not exhausting dialogue befoer talking to melina at forge of giants triggering cutscene
or not giving her Stormhawk King before killing maliketh

[frail sky]

Oh hey, has anyone tried out Melania rune's? You know, now that it's been buffed and there's actually game left to play after you get it

[golden pond]

The Flask of Crimson Tears is reduced to 70% of its normal HP recovery amount while this Great Rune is active. Having the Great Rune just equipped (but not active) will not have any effect on the flask, only activating it with a Rune Arc will.

it seems to be really good though

as long as you don't get hit multiple times i think

[frail sky]

Is that from before or after the 1.12 buff?

Okay supposedly it's a -15% debuff now

[golden pond]

ah

thought fextra would catch up already

[frail sky]

The comments have! 🙃

[golden pond]

i barely read em

[frail sky]

I think they also don't have updated numbers on status build up for greased warped axe/crescent halberd

[glossy delta]

The main problem for me back when was just that the rally window was so short
As in 'the hit reaction of the attack severly cut into your ability to benefit from it' short

Did they buff that?

[frail sky]

Why did that patch buff torch poise damage

[frail sky]

If so it's not in the patch notes, did buff the amount you heal when hitting things though

[glossy delta]

If it did get buffed I'm likely gonna look at it for the ol dueling shield character

I've got Taker's Cameo on to heal chip damage but MAlenias rune would work for bosses

[mellow silo]

Torch Poise is very mean actually vs light characters

You hold it out on front of you and just flinch lock any who approach

i know because I've been on the receiving end of that

[glossy delta]

😭

[golden pond]

idk what the max is but

[frail sky]

I’ll try it out on my new playthrough after I beat he- wait right great runes need rune arcs and those are a pain to get

[real shadow]

Needing rune arcs to power them is really annoying.

[golden pond]

1 katana swing

idk how it scales

never used great runes

[glossy delta]

looks into my inventory
67 rune arcs
I may forget to activate runes during most playthroughs

[frail sky]

Same

[golden pond]

imma tp into farum azula to get slapped by a big knight

[frail sky]

Even though 67 would probably be enough for most playthroughs

[mellow silo]

I have literally never used a rune arc lmao

[golden pond]

i forgot they exist

[glossy delta]

Its honestly like
CRAZILY
Annoying how you have to both regain the rune from the shardholder and also putz over to the divine tower every playthrough to get your rune back

[real shadow]

I only really use them for bosses that very much piss me off.

[frail sky]

I’ve occasionally used them on hard bosses, but constantly forget to use them when I respawn

So I’ve just stopped bothering

[golden pond]

it uh

[frail sky]

Oh dear

[atomic plinth]

Yeah, it's

Not really very great

It's fine on smaller, lithe weapons, but the returns diminish INSANELY on heavier ones

[golden pond]

kind of uh

not to mention

it's still 5 seconds

i'm doing this with no hitbox turned on so i can actually get hits in

fuck knows if you're gonna be able to get any in on dlc bosses

still a trash rune

[atomic plinth]

Nowhere near as good as Bloodborne's Rally

If it didn't nerf healing flasks it'd be just okay

[golden pond]

bro thinks he's him

[glossy delta]

I just realized(?)
Horned Warriors use the Kaiden Sellsword model

[atomic plinth]

Aye

[frail sky]

Honestly this one is a decent amount of healing

[golden pond]

note

my hitbox is off

he immedaitely follows up with a storm that would stagger me and remove all that damage i can heal

[glossy delta]

I should upgrade the horned warrior ash
They're pretty dang scary as enemies and I love their animations
Kaiden sellswords are, imo, the best animated baddies in the game but their ash is not very good

[golden pond]

and even if i dodged

the time would run out

It's the fact that you get 5 seconds from the moment you get hit

so any long stagger like fire, or grab or anything like that

immediately useless against

Any combo attacks, useless

like just use radahn', 15% extra hp, fp and stam

[frail sky]

...huh, apparently it was also 5 seconds in bloodborne

Why does it feel so much longer there

[golden pond]

game is more fast pace

you can get hits in while bosses are hitting

[real shadow]

It was a bit easier to trade blows in BB since rallying varied by weapon so you could, if you liked, get all that lost HP back in a couple hits.

hunter axe had the highest rally, which was nuts for a starter weapon

[old brook]

Precious Burial Blade rally %

[frail sky]

Heavier/slower weapons tended to have higher rally yeah
Though “slower” in bloodborne is about greatsword speed

[real shadow]

Yeah. BB was just an overall faster and more aggressive game than previous titles, and which Elden Ring can be depending on playstyle and boss.

[golden pond]

alright gang

i need some help putting together a commander fashion

i don't wanna just do the boring Radahn set or Veteran set

so far thinking cleanrot set with crucible tree helm

or axe, either one

[frail sky]

My first thought is the exile chest piece to match the commander's standard, but it isn't very commander-y outside of that

[old brook]

God, ||Romina Phase 2|| goes insane, you deserved a cutscene girlie

Also highly recommend fighting at night, the skybox is right there and color scheme goes off

[atomic marsh]

Let's see what you got so far

[golden pond]

I'm like so in bed cause it's 3am

[mellow silo]

Square Off acquired for my second Milady, now all I need to complete my build is get to the Shadow Realm for Rellana's Cameo talisman

It's all coming together

[golden pond]

Don't forget Alex shard

[frail sky]

You can use square off on light greatsword?

[mellow silo]

Yeah I muled over Alex Shard, Carian Filigreed, and Millicent's Prosthetic

[frail sky]

I thought it was just straight swords

[mellow silo]

I hope lmao

Haven't put it on yet

[golden pond]

You can read it

It's in your inventoey

Fextra says no

[mellow silo]

It's so joever

[glossy delta]

LMAO

Wing stance fills more or less the same niche but yeah I would prefer square off if I could

[dusty kraken]

How is ||Relenna's twin light greatswords? I am kinda tempted to make an int/faith character to use them.||

[umbral portal]

I personally like them but iirc the general opinion is that they suck

[glossy stag]

Very fun

Idk how good they're from optimization's point of view

I had a lot of fun with em

[frail sky]

||They're... not great? They don't scale nearly as well as you'd hope with int/fai so the damage is gonna be lackluster and I didn't find the magic part of the ash terribly useful||
||They kinda feel like a downgrade from the sword of night and flame to me, though they have a much more fun moveset||

[glossy delta]

They're weird
||The fire swords fire damage scales only with faith, the magic swords magic damage scales only with int, and their phys damage is str and dex||
||So they're quite awkward to use as certain attacks will not care about certain segments of your stat spread||

[frail sky]

||The good news is that they give pure faith builds and pure int builds a weapon to powerstance with milady||

||In the right hand you get the magic sword and can use its ash, left hand you get the fire sword and can use milady's ash||

[glossy delta]

I've been told that left handing the twin blades actually puts the blue one there 😔

[frail sky]

Huh, weird'

It worked differently when I tried it

[glossy delta]

Oh, if you tested it then my source was wrong

[dusty kraken]

||Aww, okay then ;-;||

[stable cedar]

how's this for a list of incantations for a dex/faith katana build

[stone cove]

Honestly, it's really going to depend a lot on your playstyle

I'll point out bloodflame blade does poorly with an arcane seal.

[languid tiger]

they said dex/faith

[stone cove]

Just noting it as a general thing

[stable cedar]

I'm planning on using the dragon communion seal

[languid tiger]

oh

don't

[stable cedar]

oh?

which do you recommend, in that case

[languid tiger]

any other seal

[stone cove]

So BFB only scales it's fire damage with the faith scaling of your seal

[languid tiger]

for your buff

[stone cove]

How much faith do you have? Quite a bit looking at Placi ruin, I assume

[stable cedar]

I haven't respecced yet, so that's up in the air

RL191 at the moment

I was thinking maybe 40? 45? my current off-stat is int and that's 45

[stone cove]

Godslayer seal is the best until 69, then erdtree takes over iirc

Golden order can outdo it, as can Dragon Communion, but that requires high int/faith or high faith/arcane

At rl191 you should be able to hit 55-60vig, 70 dex (max casting speed), 70-80 faith, and still have enough left over to get 25 end + plenty of mind

[left willow]

Oh, hey Zombie: Do you mind explaining why Astel's > Bastard? Is it just weapon typing/speed/??? or is there something else I'm missing

[stone cove]

Astels has the spell attacks on it's heavy, and I prefer the moveset

[paper badge]

Dryleaf seal is alright too before Erdtree takes over

[stone cove]

I hadn't kept up on the new seals, so thank you!

[stone cove]

They're both great though, and iirc neither is very heavy, so you may as well use both

Total weight to carry both is 8.0, which is still lighter than many big two handers

DMGS is weight 10, for example

If you're going light roll load though for the mobility, them astel is the clear winner at 2.5 weight

Which is ridiculously light weight

Bastard stars version of the weapon art hits harder though

[left willow]

It really does

That's what I've been using it for, mostly

Cause Nebula just trashes the Black Knights (assuming I time the windup right)

[stone cove]

Totally valid!

I'm still tinkering with getting my caster setup for the dlc

[left willow]

I'm really liking a lot of Ranni's & Sellen's "questline" items. (Me and my two weed smoking girlfriends in Portland)

[stone cove]

Iirc Glintstone Kris is wacky broken for some reason

[left willow]

Oh, yeah.

It has Glintstone Dart as its ash

Which comes out fairly fast and actually does quite a bit of damage

[stone cove]

That's right, it hits as hard as Comet for a fraction of the price

[left willow]

For 10 fp

And you can charge it for even more

(which chains into this lunging heavy attack, also for great damage)

[stone cove]

Fun little thing regarding Messmer and Melina ||When you add Destined Death back to Melina's fire after killing Malekith, the flames turn a rich ruby-dark red, very similar in color to Messmer's flame||

[median rock]

||what situation does that occur in? how do you see melina's fire?||

[stone cove]

||After killing Malekeith||

[left willow]

... Are Clayman Sorceries DLC spoilers? I don't think (?) I've encountered any in the base game, but I also definitely haven't poked everything in the base game

[stone cove]

They're in teh base game

They're just hidden in Siofira well for whatever reason.

[median rock]

||after killing malekith, she is dead unless frenzyflame||

[left willow]

Ah, I see.

[median rock]

||and i didn't realize she had flame visible in hte post-ending lord of frenzied flame cutscene||

[left willow]

Oh, they're the oracle bubbles

[stone cove]

||IT's still her flame burning the erdtree, and yoiu add destined deato that||

[left willow]

doi

I kinda want to get to 24 faith so I can cast Briars and Death spells

[stone cove]

There are some good ones

[left willow]

On a very different note: ||The Putrid Knight or whatever it's called is fragging brutal.||

||I need to figure out its patterns, I think, before I can kill it||

||Maybe also a different summon? Not sure||

[stone cove]

One of the big reasons is if you're at 24 faith, you may as well get 25.

Which lets you cast Golden Oath

Er, Golden Vow*

[stone cove]

Seek Holy.

[left willow]

||Yoda doesn't track him very well for some reason||

||Yeah, figures. Me and my magic damage build over here like..... o.o any time there's undead||

[stone cove]

It has -20 to holy and i think might be calssed as undead which means there's an extra 100% damage boost for various holy sources

even just hurling Holy pots

[left willow]

||Also, those stupid laser orb snakes can eat a boot||

[stone cove]

Also doesnt resist fire at all, so Rykard's Rancor should Fuck Him Up

As well as other magma sorceries if you can get them on him

[left willow]

Oh, I still need to find that, I think

[stone cove]

It's in return for Rykard's remberance

[left willow]

Oh, I need to dup Rykards, that's right

[obtuse halo]

Yeah i deleted it with discus of light my first time

[stone cove]

So have you killed a terrible snake man with terrible vocal issues?

[left willow]

adds to list

[stone cove]

Then you can get it!

If you havent

Well

[obtuse halo]

And packed a bunch of golden arrows for bow-only

Since capital outskirts merchant sells them unlimited

[left willow]

Yeah, I just need to dup it, cause I think I grabbed the blade first? Not sure

[stone cove]

tbf, the blade is incredibly good

[left willow]

I know where I can dupe it (or I could go mess with one of the Masus)

Oh, if I've killed Rykard, can I still get stuff from Recusant Bernhahl?

[stone cove]

I belive so, yes.

if not he ||invades you in farum azula, and you can kill him for his bellbearing there||

[left willow]

This is no longer applicable as of version: 1.09.1

[obtuse halo]

Iirc after he leaves volcano manor, he’ll leave his sword on his chair. It can still be interacted with as a merchant

[languid tiger]

dw, i beat its ass with an 80 int milady, just keep fucking it up

really fun fight imo

horse missile is so fucking funny

[obtuse halo]

Hate that lol

[left willow]

Except the ||waves of blue fire.|| I CANNOT figure out the dodge/jump pattern to not take full damage

[stone cove]

They are jump

and jump

and jump

it's annoyin.

[obtuse halo]

The horse is the attack i had the most trouble consistently dodging

[left willow]

when? WHEN?????!!!

[obtuse halo]

Not because it has hard timing i just always get thrown off

[obtuse halo]

It’s similar to ||furnace golem||, only the front of each wave has a hurtbox

[left willow]

I cannot consistently hit the first jump and anything after the first? forgadaboutit

[languid tiger]

wait really?

i never jumped it

i just uh

rolled

[left willow]

I fragging hate the FGs

[languid tiger]

you just roll in

[obtuse halo]

Jumping attacks in general takes some getting used to

[languid tiger]

||directly toward the fire - so toward him for the triple waves, away from him for the rear wave||

[left willow]

thank you, I'll take these tips, much appreciated

[languid tiger]

the timing's tight, but i had success with it

[left willow]

Does anyone know if Zamor Icestorm does 80 frost per "tick" or over the whole spell?

wtf?

[kind garden]

whoops wrong channel my b

[left willow]

ah

I hope it makes sense wherever it's supposed to go

[languid tiger]

no idea, sorry

never used it

[kind garden]

well shit

now your wtf has no context

so I guess I gotta post neco arc pilk anyways

[left willow]

screams

[left willow]

That's a shame. If you're a caster build at all, I recommend it

[kind garden]

neco arc is an invasive species

[languid tiger]

i hate the slowness

[left willow]

I wish we had some form of Thop's Barrier but as a physical-blocking shield Y^Y

[languid tiger]

i wish thops' barrier was broken

[left willow]

Look, if I could spend mana to eat attacks, you know I would

[languid tiger]

gimme carian retal but it gives you scholar's shield after

for thops barrier aow

[left willow]

What do people think of Founding Rain of Stars? I haven't used it yet, but it looks cool so I'm thinking about using it as a consistant aggro pull

[languid tiger]

very good in pvp as a zone control too, never been super impressed by it in pve

[left willow]

Gotcha

[languid tiger]

you might have a different experience, but i've never favored the backline wizard playstyle in fromsoft games

i always end up throwing my stave to the side and beating things to death

[obtuse halo]

Demihuman Queen Coded

[left willow]

I'm about 50/50 on the "back liner" style.
Against bosses, I use spells as my "mainline" damage but will often close the gap to land some heavy attacks or carian sword sorcs but rely on my summon(s) to take the heat off after I land a good combo.

Part of my recent difficulties has been that I cannot find these stupid revered ashes, so my summons typically get bodied pretty hard.

So I've been thinking about ways to consistently pull boss aggro.

Founding Rain is (theoretically) one of these ways to do so

I kinda want to pop up the DLC interactive map, cause I'm like 80% sure I've missed Scadu Frags and Rev Ashes, but I also really want to avoid spoilers

I wish there was a checklist of things to poke by area, so I could do it that way, but I think the DLC checklist has spoilers

(Not sure tho)

[languid tiger]

you can filter the interactive map for only scadufrags & holy ash

[left willow]

I guess? I might try that

[kind garden]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/945724638984548462/1260487599525593108/Farum_Azula_Elden_Ring_2.webp?ex=668f800e&is=668e2e8e&hm=53b737133f65026cd9006beacd1c42e4637eba69100bfc85365cf1dcd8ada00e&

hey, look at this

the Farum Azula Elden Ring depiction has a Crucible helix running up the center spine

[left willow]

Are there any int-scaling melee weapons that can be greased?

[languid tiger]

clayman's harpoon might be, but probably not if it can't

[left willow]

Can be buffed with Magic and Consumables.

Looks like it can!

ty

[left willow]

Now I just need to kill enough of them

oh gods, I feel so stupid rn

I kept thinking "man, there's so many weapons, it's annoying to find the ones I want"

And you can just stuff the ones you don't want into a chest Y^Y

[languid tiger]

lmfao

you haven't been using your box?

[left willow]

There's a joke to be made here, but I'll pass

But also, I've just used it for my extra Rune[1]'s or other consumables

[modest berry]

it also looks like miquellas needle, placidusax when hes meditating and ||metyr's antenna tail||

[left willow]

Which is a habit I need to figure out how to break

But it's one I have :|

[left willow]

But yeah, every weapon and armor I've ever picked up is just in my inventory

:|

[languid tiger]

rip

[left willow]

The joke: ||I just recently figured out/admitted to myself I was trans, I don't even have a box to use||

[gray leaf]

I probably already stated this, but I like how Shadow of the Erdtree basically confirmed the whole "||outer gods/their influences reside in the eyes||" thing.

Like, it was already known, but now it's more forthright.

[steel scroll]

there are at least four instances from the base game off the top of my head, and the dlc adds maybe one or two more

base game: grace, shabriri grapes, fire giant eye, melina's gloam eye maybe

[left willow]

Your character doesn't have the "right" eyes, iirc

and yeah, Shabriri's whole thing

[gray leaf]

Yeah, but it's way more directly stated for ||Messmer's seal/second phase||; the others are sort of like... yes, the fire giant's eye is weird, but that doesn't inherently show a connection if that makes sense?

Also, the whole thing about grace in the eyes, which I suspect most people would not see without looking at external videos.

[dusty kraken]

I love the usage of ||Singular Eyes. It's great considering the Irish Mythology aspects as that ties in really well. The expansion also goes very Book of Invasions, with a series of groups, none of which are 'good' but took over each other one after another||

[gray leaf]

||That's an angle I had not considered at all. I don't know enough about the relevant mythology.||

Is this something? ||https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiery_flying_serpent|| You could probably make it something if you read the quotes in a very biased way.

[dusty kraken]

||Balor's Poisonous Eye is a famous part of the Invasion Cycle. A single eyed giant who's vision was taint itself.||

||Which you can see a lot of referneces to in Elden Ring's man 'Here is horrible shit sealed into/by a single eye'.||

||You actually see Literally That in the Giant Skeletons that get summoned by the Mariners. They shoot the deal laser from a Single Eye.||

[gray leaf]

||...I was going to say I wasn't sure how many of them were tied to a single eye, but, actually, it's most of them save for the Flame of Frenzy (if not technically, then at least in their most prominent instances such as the soreseals).||

[languid tiger]

||the Flame and Outer Will are both associated with eyes as a whole, not single eyes, yeah||

||grace and frenzy both appear in each eye, afaik||

[dusty kraken]

||Mesmer has a single eye sealing his horror, Destined Death appears in a single eye, the Giants shoot lasers from a single eye etc||

[gray leaf]

||Does Destined Death appear in a single eye for Maliketh? I don't know what Melina has going on in the Frenzied Flame ending, but I don't know if that's Destined Death in her eye or not.||

[languid tiger]

don't believe so

[dusty kraken]

||I'm not sure on Malikeh, I'll admit. The Fire Giant's power is also shown by a Single Eye. The one in his chest that opens up in his second form||

||He's also wearing a splint. The Fomorians were not just giants but misshapen giants and the Fire Giant boss's body is not quite shaped right/he's got a club foot.||

[gray leaf]

||...I did not notice that. At all. Interestingly, a lot of forge gods were also depicted with a limp of some kind, or otherwise disabled. So that's a funny little note to toss onto there.||

[languid tiger]

||isn't the fell god talisman depicted with two eyes?||

[trail sail]

||No, in fact it explicitly says "Sacred seal depicting the one eyed god of the Fire Giants" in the description||

[languid tiger]

talisman, not seal

but fair, i'd forgotten that one

[trail sail]

No such thing that I can find

[obtuse halo]

yeah I don't know of any such talisman

[languid tiger]

huh

[golden pond]

current plan-ish

cause it's very peak

[obtuse halo]

Cleanrot doesn’t override the shoulder cape? Wow.

[median rock]

its crazy how it always feels like the cape is there when you don't want it, and never there when you DO want it

it's sick that it sticks around just right in that drip lol

[golden pond]

ye c:

36 end + great jar just to medium roll

[golden pond]

weapons - Banished Knight's Sword - Commander Standard
Shield - Distinguished Greatshield
Talismans - Great-jar's arsenal, Dragoncrest, Two-handed/axe talisman, Old lord's Talisman (longer healing on the soldiers cause god knows they need it)

[median rock]

honestly most of my builds float around 30, 35 endurance no matter what they're doing

its just so much nicer having stamina to do things

[golden pond]

have to go to 40 so i can wear talismans

[median rock]

is old lords talisman really worth the extra +9 seconds

lol

[golden pond]

Blessing of hte Erdtree

[median rock]

also, i think that's only on you

ah

[golden pond]

90s > 117s

1,080 total to 1404

[median rock]

old lord's talismans typically doesn't affect buffs on other ppl iirc. they have to be wearing it

i'm assuming you're using this for spirit summons and that spirit summons work like pcs

[golden pond]

oh man

gonna jump off a cliff, bye bye

[median rock]

its oddly worded but basically if you're wearing it, you get the extended buffs. if the caster is wearing it, doesn't matter

(i don't know for sure this is true - i have not tested, so feel free to test yourself)

[golden pond]

Does not increase the duration of buffs applied to Spirit Ashes (tested on 1.04).

it's right below that

[median rock]

LOL i didnt read 2 lines down

nice

i mean. it probably would for mimic tear

but unless you name yourself Soldier 22 i dont think that'll count for the run :)

[golden pond]

yeah, i wanna avoid mimic tear

[median rock]

do you plan on like, actually having the soldiers do a lot of the fighting?

and you just buff? or are you also figthing

either way you may be the first person in history to use the new dlc talisman ||that buffs you when your spirit ashes die||

[golden pond]

no i know

that was a plan

it is now, with lord's gone

[median rock]

wait wtf thats 30 seconds

thats really bad LOL

[golden pond]

Skeletal ashies

they just revive and keep buffing oyu

[median rock]

are those legal for your run

i thought it was 'soldier' only

[golden pond]

probably not haha

[median rock]

shoutout the poet in fextra comments

[golden pond]

i basically wanna have commander AI on myself

support my dudes until they start kicking the bucket

[median rock]

ahh fun

do you get to have a phase transition moveset

[golden pond]

why does he look so scared of it

like he's flinching

[median rock]

he didnt expect his own voice to be so loud when he yelled

[golden pond]

😭

[median rock]

bro is NOT holding it together

[golden pond]

yeah, i get to use this bad boy

[median rock]

ah, so attacks with the commander's standard in phase 1

and then sheathe the shield & flag for the greatsword phase 2

swag

[golden pond]

yeee

keep the shield for phase 2 in dlc

[median rock]

if you wanna be real swag u can swap out shields to match the soldiers u have out

so ur using their factions greatshield or closest equiv

[golden pond]

Leyndell, Godrick, Mausoleum, Redmane, Lucaria

and funny death guys

[median rock]

lmao you're one step ahead

[golden pond]

Spirits of common soldiers who carry the sacred light. When weakened, they explode to deliver a last-ditch attack. This was the bitter revelation discovered by the desperate soldiers who awaited the return of their lord to the rotted Haligtree.

truly a sad state of affairs

if i end up fighitng a boss weak to holy

[median rock]

damn wtf i didnt know they explode

like as spirits

thats kinda sick

[golden pond]

will say, pretty good to know that each soldiers ashes is different

and works diffy

Godrick gets 1 melee + 1 ranged
Lucaria is 1 knight and 2 shitbags
Radahn is 2 fire melee
Leyndell is 2 greatshields with spears
Mausoleum is 5 teleporting melee dudes
Haligtree is 4 very ambitious dudes that explode in holy damage when they get low
Messmer is peak melee with a charging spear dude and a shouty axe dude

messy soldiers actually managed to do like 10-15% of malenia's HP completely stunlocking her

insane ashes

[golden pond]

haligtree dudes throw poison pots

and at half hp jump at a boss and die

did 270 to morgott wiht +10

[wild sierra]

Messmer's soldiers are aso the scariest and most effective for me to fight so I understand that their ashes might be good :p

only ones who actually still give a shit I guess

[glossy stag]

their high poise combo hurts

[golden pond]

godrick boys can do morgott if you just tank sometimes

raya lucaria is a fucking sham

lmao

2 little guys and a greatsword guy
he sits back and throws cuckoo stones at the bos

😭

[dusty kraken]

Those axes do so much poise damage.

First time I met a Messmer guy with an axe I went 'come on, I've fought haligtree guys, how bad can it be', fucked up a parry and got my ass handed to me.

[modest berry]

this sounds good with the attack raise on ally death talisman

[golden pond]

radahn - good damage, very little survival

[golden pond]

it's 20% for 30s

this is my curent talisman setup

i have 0 reason to swap to that one

mausoleum soldiers time

[modest berry]

though it does proc again when another ally dies however so if they die offset from one another it can be more than 30 but yeah those are all choice im just speculating

[golden pond]

if it was more than 20% then maybe

So far
Godrick Ashes - Insane, crossbow guy is a legend by having morgott walk up and he's still crossbowing him, probably my favorite
Raya Lucaria - I think i ened to retest, greatsword guy just stood back and threw cuckoo stones at the boss
Leyndell - They lived a while, probably better for bosses that don't constnatly hit you wiht a hammer and they don't do much damage
Radahn - Very sweet damage, probably busted on something weak to fire, no shields or anything so get killed easily
Haligtree - They're kinda funny and probably good on bosses weak to holy
Mausoleum - So far best damage but that's cause there's 5 of these fuckers running at the boss and he doesn't know which one to hit
Messmer - Pretty solid but the little shields to very little (who woulda thunk)

yeah, raya lucaria just sucks

oh my lord the raya guy gives me Middle Manager energy

unless there's 4 guys htiting his head with hammers, he wil just throw cuckoo stones

[proper vortex]

Man the black knofe armor has some serious drip

[languid tiger]

it's so fucking good

[proper vortex]

||my man igonbis so extra i love. His Mobydick is a gynormous dragon, and yet he still take time to prop you up in his hate monolgue||

[frozen olive]

||the greatest hype man since Godfrey, Elden Lord||

[obtuse halo]

||CURSE YOU BAAAYLE!!!||

[proper vortex]

||we didn't Simmons him..we're his summon in his fight against Bayle. And i'm okay with that||

[modest berry]

||I also like that inside boss room summons dont 1.5 health the boss like him and horn sent||

[grave plinth]

https://fixupx.com/De_rVert/status/1810697723063968247/photo/1

[obtuse halo]

OC DO NOT STEAL

😛

sick art tho

[steel scroll]

extrapolatijng this pattern im imagining fia trying to give godwyn's mega fish corpse a piggy back ride

[old brook]

I do still wonder why he got all fishy

[obtuse halo]

There seems to be a strong association between Those who Live in Death and large bodies of water for some reason

It's no coincidence that the Tibia Mariner is a Mariner.

[modest berry]

godwyn also is very much like,, a mermaid fishman almost, as hes warped

[obtuse halo]

You can find a large horde of the undead just staring at the ocean in the Weeping Peninsula

[frail sky]

Hmm... maybe it's because stagnant water tends to be a health hazard?

[old brook]

There's also Ghostflame and Deathbirds and Ash though

[obtuse halo]

that's the thing, it's not just stagnant water

the ocean is death too

there are specific japanese folk tales about mermaids in particular, and eating of their flesh - it grants a cursed immortality

[modest berry]

The ningyo

When beached it spells calamity , said to have red hair, many correlate this with oarfish sightings coming up from depth after earthquakes

[obtuse halo]

(which also, come to think of it, is at least part of what's going on with Kos and the Hunter's Nightmare in the Bloodborne dlc)

[steel scroll]

the godwyn quest ending with a dream is also notable in that respect.

[modest berry]

Something I also like about godwyn is he and deathroot seems to spawn flies and other bugs almost like the original alchemical theory that vermin simply spawned wholecloth from death and uncleanliness

[vivid spire]

https://youtu.be/pnE7Xy2p6Xw?si=nx5U6DLa0Fqv4bJP

[obtuse halo]

the cursemark of death is also a centipede, so the current discussion in #video-game-discussion is immediately relevant here too

[proper vortex]

my wife want me to put an end to the age of the erd tree

(i love my wife)

[grave plinth]

I do as My Exquisite Lady commands

[proper vortex]

Me becoming elden lord "I would like to thanks my best friend Mimic Tear and my beloved wife lunar princess Ranni for there supports, my mother in law Carian Queen Renalla for all the weird build i pulled off"

[paper badge]

I mean just look at the Cerulean Coast in SotE, wrt all the things associating Death with The Sea

[modest trellis]

Yeah there's plenty of symbolism with Tibia Mariners raising the dead while on boats

[modest berry]

interesting note, the tibia mariner boats ||are the same design as the ones burning ash on the shadow keep parapets||

[grave plinth]

I do notice that ||the funeral culture at the Cerulean Coast is completely different in aesthetics from the Hornsent we see at Belurat and its nearby settlements. If anything the architecture and motifs are more reminiscent of the Nox||

[golden pond]

||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwGOfUBEIyA|| minor optional dlc boss spoilers
this fucks, actually

[frail sky]

Love that boss so much

[spark pine]

Heck yeah

Little guy with sword

Man Milady has such great movesets

Been having a ton of fun figuring out the input orders for seemless transitions between light and heavy attacks with it

[frail sky]

My new favorite weapon in the game tbh

[old brook]

i'm glad other folks also instantly thought of the Count

[spark pine]

It makes me wanna create a whole build around it

[golden pond]

Milady User #14981294

[frail sky]

14981294 people have good taste then

[old brook]

Milady, Backhand Blades, and Ancient Dragon Great Katana seem to be the winners, at least in terms of 'what i see ghosts walkin around with'

[golden pond]

i'm still burdened by lack of Vibes with any dlc weapons

[old brook]

They're all cool I'm sorry

[frail sky]

Lack of Vibes?

[golden pond]

none of htem realy vibe with me

i really hoped star-lined sword would feel great

[old brook]

but you can kick god to death

[golden pond]

but it's a dex weapon that has a magic aow and it immediatley killed it for me when i saw it's int rating not increase

[golden pond]

but i don't want to kick god to death

[old brook]

yeah they do seem to hate scaling weapons with casting stats, it's mean

[golden pond]

like i get it

you don't want 1 build to have insane ranged and melee options

but you already made DMGS

and Helphen's

[old brook]

and Eleonora's but that might be more dex

still faith/arcane not wanting for options

[golden pond]

at least they have For weapons that have Arcane scaling, Arcane scales up the amount of hemorrhage status effect elden ring wiki guide 25pxBlood Loss build-up, Poison build-up, Sleep build-up, and Madness build-up on the weapon.

int has frost

[old brook]

Yeaaah that's a little silly, Madness or Sleep couldn't be int? Madness is literally everything that's its whole deal

more madness weapons in general please

[golden pond]

we got 3

spear, perfume, mad hand

[frail sky]

tbf madness is borderline irrelevant in pve so I can see why they didn’t bother

[golden pond]

we have no madness aow except the one stuck on vyke's spear

[old brook]

it's still usually fire with good scaling and b-but.. it's neat

[modest berry]

nanaya torch? i havent tried it does it do madness

why is the damnation sword holy!!?!!?!?!? it should do slight buildup even like 55

[golden pond]

cause it's hornsent in origin

||but imo it should've been corrupted by the guy using it||

[old brook]

also why not just have madness build up in actual enemies regardless, it's not crazy bonus damage

[golden pond]

[old brook]

( Vyke's spear is cool though, will say, recommend )

[frail sky]

Really it should have been bleed, the other weapon like it has bleed but it doesn’t for some reason

[golden pond]

oh i'm aware it's cool

buti 'm fucking bored of it

i got so happy seeing madness exulation

[old brook]

Rot got some rep so I'm glad for that, Poison Flower Blooms Twice is truly good

and whadda name

[modest berry]

i love the command grab on the sword tho, u can use it from any height that you would survive from of course

plunging attack is back

[old brook]

easily the funniest way they could've done it, so many good videos

[golden pond]

too bad it's useless in pve WHEEZING

[modest berry]

hey you can kill,,,, gideon idk

[golden pond]

i can also blow on gideon and he dies

[modest berry]

THE DEPTHS OF YOUR FOOLISHNESS

[frail sky]

Even without the grab it’s a pretty good ash

…wrong reply but okay

[modest berry]

i was watching chase the bro invade with it before trying it myself its so silly

having a followup is so useful too

[proper vortex]

fuck it if i want to light roll i will light roll drop 99 in END

[glossy delta]

The midra sword art is big brained because yeah, it's one of those 'command grab that only works on tarnished' attacks, but if that doesn't go off you also just can do a big explosion with the follow-up

[obtuse halo]

Basically how bow only feels

55 End, wears almost no armor

[stable cedar]

just now realizing on NG+ that I can't progress rya's quest without ||killing two of my fellow tarnished|| and now I'm sad ;~;

[obtuse halo]

||Two? I think you do have to kill Ishvahn but idk who else||

[stable cedar]

||rileigh the idle, according to fextralife||

[golden pond]

if it makes you feel any better

||there's no reward for the quest other than she gets to dip||

[obtuse halo]

Didn’t realize both were necessary to progress the quest

[stable cedar]

oh yeah I know, I did it in my first run

just didn't know I had to ||kill those guys||

current draft of my stat line + incantations for a dex/faith build with uchigatana/naginata and erdtree seal

despite having a million larval tears I am kinda nervous about committing lol

[old brook]

Also Rilegh is an assassin for the two fingers

So it's sort of a spy vs spy deal

[golden pond]

vyke's is fucking pointless btw

[stable cedar]

elaborate?

[old brook]

But: cool

[golden pond]

same damage buff as electrify armament
gives 15% max load
reduces lightning absorption by 35%

[old brook]

( deserves a buff though)

[golden pond]

you'er better off just using Electrify armament

[proper vortex]

rate my set up

[golden pond]

i was really hoping for a rework

[stable cedar]

according to fextralife if I cast a body buff after it I can keep the red lightning(which if I'm real is like 95% of the reason I took vyke's lmao)

[golden pond]

yeah, fair

but i'm not seeing body buffs there

[stable cedar]

I could always switch something out for Flame, Grant Me Strength

[golden pond]

other than that, it seems fine

high end i assume light rolls or heavy armor?

[old brook]

More Endurance

[golden pond]

also man

have fun using placidusax ruin

[stable cedar]

yeah, I hear light rolls are a big help in SotE

[golden pond]

(you won't )

not necessarily

light rolls in general are pog

but what is gonna help you the most is having a good defensive setup

[stable cedar]

I'm looking to grab what I've taken to calling the Sekiro Hardtear asap

[golden pond]

i've been running dragoncrest greatshield tali and shield tali for about i think 70-80% damage reduction on phys

[golden pond]

everyone calls it that

but yeha uh

placidusax ruin is uh

you'll get it off in hte open world

that's for sure

[proper vortex]

the green bar should be bigger

[golden pond]

probably never in bosses

[golden pond]

stam boost tear, fap talisman, stam tali

or just use infinite stamina tear, idk

[proper vortex]

frankly it's mainly to light roll

[stable cedar]

what talisman

[golden pond]

fap

oh sorry

Erdtree's Favor or whatever

[stable cedar]

why on earth is it called fap talisman

[obtuse halo]

Oh

[golden pond]

fap ring

[obtuse halo]

Ring of Favor and Protection yeah

[stable cedar]

ah

[obtuse halo]

Had the same effect in DS1

[golden pond]

and ds3

and 2

[old brook]

except it broke if you removed it

[stable cedar]

updated incantation list

I've also (roughly) sorted them

[golden pond]

put black flame after claw

it only lasts like 7s

best to have quick access to it

[obtuse halo]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EqeEl8_RgwY

[vestal night]

it is also very funny to see how the FaP ring and its equivalents gets progressively smaller percentages across each game they show up

[golden pond]

to be fair

99 vig in ds3 is 1400 hp

that's around 39/40 vig in er

by hte time you hit dlc you got 60 vig, 1900 hp
which is something you can only hit in ds3 with 99 Vigor, Life Ring +3, Ring of Favor +3 and Ember

2122 hp

[vestal night]

sure
but the increase from the ring still got smaller each game

it was 20% to all three in 1

and then DS2 already immediately nerfed it heavily

[frail sky]

“How small do we have to make the bonuses so it stops being a mandatory ring”

[golden pond]

exactly

[golden pond]

50 vit for 1500 hp in ds1

[frail sky]

And people still always used it, especially with Flynn’s ring

[vestal night]

Third Dragon was still very worth it for the stamina and the equip load alone

Third Dragon was 7.5% Health, and 12.5% Stamina and equip load for the record

[obtuse halo]

ER has a fap hat now too!

[frail sky]

Wait it does?

[obtuse halo]

It’s kind of disgusting!

[golden pond]

2/5/5

[obtuse halo]

Yeah the ||Fire Knight Helm|| increases those stats by numbers similar to base erdtree favor

[frail sky]

Oh god it’s ugly

[vestal night]

DS 3 FaP is 3% HP, 9% Stamina, and 5% equip load

and most people probably won't see the + versions

[obtuse halo]

On a helm of modest weight

It is ugly tho

[frail sky]

The +3 is in the ringed city

[vestal night]

oh yeah true

[golden pond]

they also made a new jar helmet

[vestal night]

I forgot Ringed City had +3 rings

[golden pond]

greatjar time

[obtuse halo]

Bigger hat for lmsh

[golden pond]

more importantly

SHADOW WIZARD MIMIC GANG

WE LOVE CASTING MOONS

https://tenor.com/view/ffxiv-black-mage-flare-legalize-nuclear-bombs-gif-16624795480251420994

[stone cove]

Japan, specificallly shintoism, has a whole concept of Kegare to do with stagnat water and centipedes

[mellow silo]

Best addition from SOTE, no contest

It's just goofy

Along with the lizard sword

[gray leaf]

Kegare is a bit more complicated than that. Stagnant water and centipedes are both symbols of it, but conceptually, kegare is "uncleanness" more or less, but on a more spiritual level. If you consider sacred and secular spheres of influence, as I understand it kegare is sort of a third category of thing opposite to the sacred?

[kind garden]

yes supernatural/involved with non-mundane reality, but kind of in the opposite direction as the sacred or holy

[gray leaf]

Also, I have a bit of a strange question, which is kind of about the soulsborne series as a whole:

Bloodborne had a lot of encounters which I want to call "dogs and guns" encounters. They don't have to involve literal dogs; rather, they consist of two components:

• "Dogs", which are any fast enemy which gets in the player's face and does enough damage to not be easily ignored.
• "Guns", which are any enemy with a long-ranged attack which deals decent damage.
  Typically, neither enemy type is particularly hard to kill in a vacuum; the issue is more that the short-range aggression can overwhelm you, and especially prevent you from reaching the guns.

My question is: are there other encounters like this in other soulsborne games which spring to mind? There's certainly examples of mages + screening forces, but most of the examples I can think of have the "screens" be slower and harder to kill (what I want to call "zombies and guns"). Maybe Mohgwin Palace has some?

[kind garden]

the bomber barbara experience in DkS2

there's tons of spots in Dark Souls 2 where there's a dude chuckin' explosives from a castle rampart while you fight like three other guys

[gray leaf]

I'm not sure if "dogs and bombs" should be a separate category, for when the longer-range enemies don't directly shoot at you, so much as they create poison clouds or other forms of area denial.

In the platonic ideal of "dogs and guns", the dogs are the primary thing stopping you from reaching the guns. It's not just an archer who's on an unreachable parapet or something.

[kind garden]

in Elden Ring there's a few times where you get proper combined arms'd but it's usually when you encounter a two-line force of guards

so it'll be melee guards with shields/spears and then a second line that switches to crossbows

[gray leaf]

I think Mohgwin Palace might kind of count, where there's the albinaurics which roll at you, and then the ones in the back chucking blood magic at you, unless I'm totally misremembering those encounters.

[kind garden]

nah that's real but it's a little less of the classic Bloodborne dogs-and-guns encounter

[gray leaf]

Fair. I think "zombies and guns" is a more common pattern; there's a few times in Raya Lucaria with literal zombies and some mages in the back, and I think the claymen combining the really tanky frontliners with the guys in the back throwing bubbles would count.

[stone cove]

I haven't played Bloodborne so i cant really ocmpare properly

[gray leaf]

There might be some moments with Misbegotten archers and melee troops combined, now that I think about it? Or maybe some mixed mannequin encounters? I'm not sure.

[stone cove]

And yes, accurate! I was def being a bit vague. I was more trying to bring up it's a theme that Fromsoft/Miyazaki really likes and keeps coming back to

(it's all over the scarlet rot - it's supressed by flowing water, places where it's domiant are stagant/rotting, etc)

[gray leaf]

I think I'm reinventing and/or describing the basics of encounter design, where mixed enemies can be more than the sum of their parts.

[kind garden]

well yes

but there are like

a fair number of these encounters in particular

I think the canonical Elden Ring encounter is three guards spread out such that one's right in your face, once's at shooting range, and one is around the corner so if you run past the first you wedge yourself into a really bad spot

[gray leaf]

Yeah. I'm just not sure if it's worth separating "dogs and guns", "zombies and guns", and "dogs and gas" (where the ranged enemies put down easy-to-avoid poison clouds which serve primarily to restrict movement rather than being a serious threat directly). Or if I'm just coming up with strange and idiosyncratic names for the enemy roles in Lancer and 4e.

I do think there's some reason to divide up encounters involving ranged units and melee units screening for them based on the nature of the screening units, though.

[kind garden]

fromsoft dogs are built absolutely different

[trail sail]

It starts to feel a little superfluous if you break it down too much, I think

[gray leaf]

I think any of the 50 trillion enemies which can jump up and flap their wings for a moment and squawk in your face for a little bit could count as dogs.

Maybe. There's not a clear dividing line. And breaking them down too much is going to be a fool's errand.

But I think "you can't ignore the melee units because if you don't try to do something about them, they'll kill you" and "it's hard to ignore the melee units because they're in your way, but you can probably evade/outrun them" are different enough to distinguish, even if they're more of a spectrum... hm. Gimme a moment. I want to slap together a thing.

(slapped together in mspaint, hence the lack of quality)

[golden pond]

I love that elden ring sits in the middle

Because all of them apply

[gray leaf]

This describes encounters, not games.

classic "dogs and guns" encounters are in the top right.

[kind garden]

Wait

I know what the dogs n guns encounter is

It’s the goddamn Lampreys

In the finger ruins

[golden pond]

Raaaah

[gray leaf]

...you're right. I didn't think of that; somehow, having a grab made them not seem like dogs to me??? But, no, that's absolutely correct.

[golden pond]

50 mile snipe snipe Into tp and a fail grab because hitbox too high

[gray leaf]

Also they just didn't spring to mind for whatever reason.

[kind garden]

Speaking of which

If those enemies had been put in a slightly more adverse environment

We could’ve gotten a proper Anor Londo bridge sniper

[gray leaf]

I think that when the snipers are on an unreachable balcony, they're more like part of the environment than like an enemy you're facing, you know what I mean? Yes, you can counter-snipe them, but that's not how you'll typically engage with them. If they're not on a balcony, and not so ridiculously far away that you can't feasibly reach them as part of the same "encounter", then the experience is different.

I think there could also be a third axis regarding the number versus the strength of the melee enemies, where at one extreme there's a Single Dude causing problems, and at the other there's huge walls of individually-weak chaff.

Those extremes create very experientally different fights.

[kind garden]

You’re overthinking it now

[golden pond]

Ah...

[gray leaf]

Probably, yes.

[golden pond]

Divine warriors..

[gray leaf]

Or, alternatively, trying to force too many things into a single model. But a 3d model doesn't seem too horribly complicated?

[golden pond]

Or fire knights

[kind garden]

I mean, the thing is

[gray leaf]

Now, if I tried to force it into a 4d model where there was a separate axis separating swarms of archers from A Single Powerful Sniper, then that would be unnecessary complication, especially since I doubt those are as experientally different.

[kind garden]

enemy encounters are not a simple thing that you can break down easily into such a thing

there are many types of ranged enemy, there are many types of melee enemy

they interplay pretty differently depending on their designs

case in point, fingercreeper swarms have a whole weird dynamic when a large fingercreeper hangs back and throws the urple death orb at you

that suddenly deforms the encounter design significantly

[gray leaf]

I'm not arguing against that, per se. I'm just wondering if that would be significantly different if, instead, there were large numbers of individual mages hanging back chucking death orbs at you (presumably of individually reduced potency).

[kind garden]

I mean, probably, considering how the urple makes the entire encounter suddenly revolve around your ability to evade it, compared to what it's like to dodge three or four academy mages shooting crap at you

[gray leaf]

But I would describe this as fast and numerous melee, lethal ranged?

[gray leaf]

You could probably cram that into the "lethality versus area denial" axis, but I'm not sure if that's meaningful or not. I do suspect the number of ranged enemies is less important than the number of ranged projectiles, however.

There's a totally different encounter pattern, totally disconnected from the "melee/ranged blending chart" I posted above, but which is interesting and I feel the desire to mention: staggered ranged enemies. I'm thinking of a few hallways in Raya Lucaria, where there's a few mages sniping at you, and as soon as you're in melee range of them, you're also in range of a few more mages sniping you, and then again once you reach those mages, and it's staggered for a few layers. Sometimes each layer would only have one or two mages, even.

I'm sure this pattern appears elsewhere but I'm not sure where. Maybe that one city in Dark Souls 3 that Pontiff Sullivan was in?

[stone cove]

Random musing: I think, all things considered, i just don't like casters much in Elden Ring. I'm much happeir doing "meele AND" with various caster support

[old brook]

I always end up right in the middle doing a bit of everything, probably lean caster more but I don't have it in me to glintstone pebble every mob down. Have some sort of Cool Sword and then every chaotic nuke available

It's cool when the wizard pulls out a greataxe, it's cool when the wall of a knight starts casting spells

[feral linden]

new ttrpg strat name just dropped
thank you wise bananatron

[golden pond]

||https://fxtwitter.com/actualcoastline/status/1810892868266905695?t=59xt5DsR2wgnuQ9-NY7i0g&s=19|| ranni quest spoilers but raaaah

Goals

[real shadow]

The look of someone wondering where their ass disappeared to.

[frail sky]

I wonder what kind of doll that's based on 🤔

[real shadow]

Probably all the four-armed ones with cages on them that pepper you with arrows.

[frail sky]

I meant like, if there's a real life type of doll that's based on
Because if so I haven't seen it and would like to know what it is

[real shadow]

Oh, hm.

[golden pond]

No, actually

Marionettes are like normal dolls with doll joints

Ranni has a Rope core

[frail sky]

I know that some bjds use string to keep tension between joints, but this isn’t that

[stone cove]

It reminds me of Japanese straw dolls, or rope ball toys

https://yokai.com/waraningyou/

[frail sky]

Hmm… that is weirdly close yeah

[frail ferry]

https://fxtwitter.com/DocStrangelove2/status/1811170295958421717

[stone cove]

Notably, it looks like her puppet body is some kind of mechanical core with the straw/rope acting as mass/padding on which a (now cracked and crumbled) shell was placed

[left willow]

I would commit atrocities for Ranni <3

[grave plinth]

I’m pretty sure I have committed atrocities for Ranni.

Or did i commit them for my own reasons and justify it with Ranni after the fact? Who can say.

[left willow]

I merc'ed one (1) guy. But I'm pretty sure he deserved it

(Everything else I did was on my own before meeting her)

[grave plinth]

Listen i can’t usher in the age of stars if i’m underleveled so thats why i need to massacre these depressed albinaurics

[left willow]

I actually don't farm them

[grave plinth]

If you really think about it i’m saving them from Mohg and ||Miquella||

[left willow]

I find popping a golden horn tender, wearing the golden scarab, and then wiggling around in the DLC gets me runes in a fast and way more fun manner

[grave plinth]

BE FREED FROM YOUR PRISONS OF FLESH, LIKE OUR GLORIOUS LADY RANNI!

[trail sail]

This treads very close to warcrimes jokes territory and I'm gonna ask both of you to stop please

[grave plinth]

Will do

[stone cove]

Oh, the dlc is rune central

[left willow]

hmm, respeccing. Thoughts on the stats?

[stone cove]

I would prefer 25 end, 25 mind myself.

[left willow]

I'm dropping Mind/End, but I get to 25 faith

[stone cove]

But that's personal taste

[left willow]

Yeah, that'll be soon/next, but for now, I think the 25 faith is gonna get me access to a lot more spells

[stone cove]

You're wanting to cast Rykards and Golden Vow, I take it?

[left willow]

Yeah

[stone cove]

Which like, fair, they're both very good

[left willow]

And the Briars

[stone cove]

Make sense. Should work!

Only reason I'd be iffy on that low end is it's not a lot of stamina to work with

Having a big stamina bar is a real bonus

[left willow]

Yeah, I know

[stone cove]

(there's an argument that the game is effectively turn based, and your stamina bar dictates how many turns you have)

[left willow]

I'mma pop some runes and see if I have enough for a few levels for end buffing

[stone cove]

What level are you?

[left willow]

148

... and just in shadow runes, I have almost 3 levels

[stone cove]

Nice!

[left willow]

348,500

(Technically had a ||Marika's|| rune in there, but still)

yeah, didn't get through all of my runes, but got to 19 end

also, re: Founding Rain of Stars

VERY GOOD AGAINST FURNACE GOLEMS

me on the other hand: VERY bad against them

[left willow]

Indeed, I am so bad at actually fighting the Furnace Golems

Like, I have the perfect spell/weapon setup (Founding Rain of Stars x Bastard's Stars ♥️)

I still have yet to kill any of them

[languid tiger]

[Try jumping.]

[left willow]

Oh, I do

[languid tiger]

(their fire hitboxes are ground-only)

so getting on torrent and beating them to death makes them trivial

[left willow]

I'm just terrible

[languid tiger]

once you get it

they take ~60% hp from a riposte, so just wailing on their legs with a reasonably heavy weapon while you get free dodges from torrent's double jump is probably the easiest way to do them

[left willow]

yeah, I know. I'm just.... bad

It really isn't the fire stomps though

[left willow]

It's the big repeat sweeps

[languid tiger]

oh, you can just hug harder for those

[left willow]

Yeah

I'm aware

I'm just... bad

[languid tiger]

alas

[left willow]

yeah

I honestly do a much better job at dodging everything else while not on Torrent

[atomic marsh]

https://x.com/Avilai2505/status/1811059979878601175?t=AsCDrqS3dyA7sIJm1Y1GHw&s=19

Avilai ✨ (@Avilai2505) on X

Twitter · Jul 10, 2024, 3:28 PM

[proper vortex]

I'm hesitant to rush the end of my current game to get another milady in the ng2+

(plus i killed one of the nice insect guy so i'm missing a ton of cookbook)

I'm in the consacrated snowfield so if I skip the haligtree i'll be finished quite fast

I have the prince of death mending rune too

[atomic marsh]

Can you Ash of War Milady

[glossy delta]

Yep!

[atomic marsh]

Hmmm

Well I wasted a Larval Tear speccing into using Rellana's swords

so I may NG+ with Milady instead

what does the moveset for duel milady look like

is it unique or just regular greatsword

[glossy delta]

Exact same as Rellanas

[atomic marsh]

Oh fuck yes

[proper vortex]

Light great swords have a great move set

[gray leaf]

Milady is the "normal" Light Greatsword, i.e. the one that you can freely infuse and ash.

[glossy delta]

Milady with chilling mist or Glintstone Pebble seems awesome

[proper vortex]

The one winged stance is verry cool too

[left willow]

What's wrong with Rellana's Swords?

[proper vortex]

It has weird scaling, especially if you don't use int or faith

[atomic marsh]

Also the arts just kinda

aren't practical

[proper vortex]

Plus if you focus only in int or faith one become underwhelming

[glossy delta]

Especially since each art attack only uses a quarter of your stat spread

[proper vortex]

(i think i'll go double frost milady and go with a int/dex build)

[proper vortex]

Yay id you're a int or faith player, you need to has an infused milady in one of you hand

(i miss freya scythe)

[dusty kraken]

And apaprently even if you're int/faith it's not great becasue you're also missing the physical part?

[proper vortex]

Yay pretty much

It's c scaling in str/dex/int/faith. If you'r e not using the magic stat (and dont really use the art) i can be good if you dump in Str and dex.

Lot of boss weapon have weird spread scaling so at higher level they aren't as good as infused weapons

[dusty kraken]

Makes me kinda sad about the lack of a Second Infusable Light Greatsword then, as you either need to Yoink A Friend's Sword or beat the entire game.

[proper vortex]

Yay the more we talk about the more i think imma rush the end of my ng+ just for that lol

[gray leaf]

I think that when you're using the unique art on Rellana's swords, the fire damage is purely faith scaling and the magic damage is purely int scaling? It's very strange. Elden Ring scaling is kind of always weird, though.

Hint: letter grades actually represent a range of scaling values, not a single specific value. So two things which appear to have the same scaling multiplier might in fact be different.

[proper vortex]

The way it works is :
both sword use str and dex dor physical damage.
The right one use your int for its magical damage (as well as the projectile of you light attack art)
The left on uses you faith for its fire damage ( and heavy art attack)

[gray leaf]

...how does the hybrid seal/catalyst handle scaling? Does it apply faith to sorceries and/or int to incantations at all?

[proper vortex]

I believe that spell strength is for both

[dusty kraken]

It feels like the blades should have absolutely tanked Dex and Str scaling in favour of better int/faith scaling. So you get weapons where you want just enough str/dex to use them but you're more about that fire and magic.

[proper vortex]

Like if a staff grows with arcane and int, both contribute to spell strength... But i don't think there is a catalyst that can cast both sorceries and incantations... But i might be wrong

[gray leaf]

There's one in Shadow of the Erdtree.

[dusty kraken]

Also: Man, I wish any of the staffs was good as like...a staff. We get a weapon/staff in the Carian Blade but all the staffs have such terrible 'hit them with it' scaling it's funny.

[gray leaf]

And I'm trying to figure out where it lists spell scaling, as opposed to its stats as a bonking stick.

[proper vortex]

All the way down of it's stat, before the scaling grade irc

[gray leaf]

...it seems like the spell scaling is equal to the staff's scaling on everything other than str and dex. Odd, but okay.

[kind garden]

the Staff of the Beyond only lists Sorcery scaling, but it casts all spells with both Int and Faith scaling

and obviously none Arcane.

[gray leaf]

where does it list sorcery scaling specifically?

[proper vortex]

Well yay... That's normal. You cast with your brain/faith/arcane. Not your muscle

[kind garden]

should be under all its blocking stats

[gray leaf]

My point is that I didn't realize it would be the exact same number for both. Also, isn't there a seal that does scale with strength? (Actually two, if you count the frenzied flame seal which scales with everything?)

[kind garden]

there is, the Clawmark Seal, but that one's special

[gray leaf]

Yeah, but I just mean that the whole situation is Odd. (Although I suppose I should look at my prior point that everything about Elden Ring scaling is odd.)

...it's odd that the finger sorcery staff scales off of arcane when none of the finger sorceries themselves care about any of that, but it's also neat that it has C scaling in Arcane at base.

[proper vortex]

Elden ring math is closer to black magic than actual number crunching

[gray leaf]

I think it does regular, understandable math, and just doesn't allow you to see 90% of the numbers.

I'm pretty sure the new mixed catalyst is just better than the golden order seal in every way except weight?

...never mind, it's very slightly worse actually (though this is of course disregarding its inhanced utility).

[kind garden]

It's slightly weaker than either the G.O. seal or PoD staff

[gray leaf]

It's also worse than the Prince of Death's Staff. So... looking at it in that light, it's only useful if you really plan on casting both, and even then you can quick-swap since the seal weighs 0.

[kind garden]

but, well, hybrid.

[gray leaf]

So it's a bit faster for hybridization, and half a pound lighter.

[kind garden]

trust me

casting both types of spell as a mixed caster and being forced to swap catalysts is fucking miserable

the hybrid catalyst is a huge buff

[left willow]

Does anyone know if/when Prince of Death's staff out scales Carian Regal Staff? (in terms of a Faith/Int build?)

[gray leaf]

Alright. I don't know how much cognitive overhead and/or time is taken up by the swapping, so I'll trust you on that.

[kind garden]

it's not the cognitive overhead so much as the fact that you need to return to a fully actionable state every time you want to swap your left hand from staff to seal and back

[gray leaf]

...fextralife theoretically has the relevant information, but I'm not ready to do that quantity of digging and math right now.

[left willow]

It doesn't, cause it only has the even stat breakdown

.... unless the build calculator has it?

[gray leaf]

It lists raw scaling levels, so you could plug them into a calculator presumably.

I don't know about the build calculator. Also the page on glin(t)stone staves/staffs has weird passive aggressive grammar Stuff going on, which I think I'm presumably amused by?

[left willow]

If I understood raw scaling levels I could XD

[gray leaf]

...question: Miriam's Vanishing can be comboed into a sorcery, but not a basic attack. Can it be comboed into an incantation? Does it matter if they're both being cast with the same weapon? Because, if so, you might be something really funny with Radagon's Ring of Light.

[left willow]

Ah, here we go

At 70int/49faith it equals out

At 80 int, you need 58

[kind garden]

Yes

I've seen this combo with Wrath of Gold

[gray leaf]

Miriam's Vanishing can already be chained into carian sword sorceries, so it's not like being able to use miracles with it would be a huge change or revelation.

[kind garden]

presumably you can use Radagon's Ring of Light to do it too

[gray leaf]

Wrath of Gold is probably a good one for being able to "hide" the charge without it being too long, like Ancient Dragons' Lightning Spear would be. Or Aspect of the Crucible: Thorns (which wouldn't be as good in pvp anyway, presumably, though it would be tricky to dodge). Wrath of Gold is very funny, though, especially for invasions.

[kind garden]

for my money the funniest thing to warp cast would be Death Lightning

[left willow]

And Golden Order Seal is what I'm gonna need for Incantations

[gray leaf]

Do they have to be on the same weapon, or could you theoretically dual wield a staff and a seal and still combo?

[left willow]

I also need to go find pest threads

[kind garden]

or like

Briars of Sin

I haven't seen the combo work without doing it on the same catalyst

[gray leaf]

Makes sense.

[kind garden]

usually animation combos like that require you to use the same weapon

warp casting Rot Butterflies might actually make it good

[gray leaf]

Briars of Sin seems like it'd be decent, although you'd want arcane with it, and then you'd just use the blood staff anyway.

[kind garden]

yeah that's just a natural albinauric staff / finger staff combo

[gray leaf]

Rot Butterflies... people talk about katanas being anime in Elden Ring, but Rot Butterflies is the actual most anime thing. You snap your fingers.

I suspect that you're "supposed to" use vanishing into twin moons, maybe.

[gray leaf]

As far as I can tell, the finger staff is just better than the albinauric staff in every way.

[left willow]

Effect time versus cast time makes it seem likely

[gray leaf]

...if you're warp-casting an invocation, you'll have the int/faith blend necessary for Radagon's Rings of Light, so that might be worth at least looking at. You can also be very funny with Noble Presence, which... I don't know how it compares with Wrath of Gold, actually.

[kind garden]

vanishing backwards lets you commit some real crimes by teleporting away and then having access to projectiles very early compared to usual

[kind garden]

Noble Presence's niche is catching wakeups

but it is quite fast

[left willow]

I scream. I want to know how much stance damage the Twin Moons do as a player spell.

Apparently, that information is either unknown or secret?

[gray leaf]

other funny invocations to warp cast (if we're looking at invocations specifically, rather than the stuff you just do by sticking to sorceries and thus getting more total power by using a better staff):

• Burn, O Flame! has a fast cast when uncharged.
• Inescapable Frenzy, to make it actually inescapable. Appear on top of someone and follow up immediately with a quick grab? Seems nasty. This might be the sauce, actually.
• Scouring Black Flame = shotgun to the face.

[left willow]

oh, but apparently your "bubble" sits above the FG's stomp. Wonder if it does the same for [Cerulean Coast(ish) Boss] ||Knight of Putresence||. If so, I can probably use a Moon spell to dodge my least favorite attack he has

[gray leaf]

Question: can you use Miriam's Vanishing to "teleport" nowhere, and just dodge in place?

...actually. Uncharged death lightning is somewhat more tightly clustered around the caster, so if you really feel the need to make use of it... here's how.

Also, fun fact: when seals or staves grant a bonus to a specific spell school, they do so even when casting with a seal/staff in the other hand.

...the rot butterflies whiff on enemies on top of you 😔

Black Flame Ritual, as far as I can tell, doesn't increase in damage with charge, only size. So using the uncharged form in a warp cast could be good. Or Burn, O Flame! can knock people back, I think?

[kind garden]

death roulette funny.

[gray leaf]

I feel like death lightning would be much better in one of the formats where dueling permitted usage of flasks, because those don't clear deathblight.

[kind garden]

I mean the thing about death lightning, the status effect aside, is that it does monstrous damage and can hit multiple times if the Greater Will/the Rot God/the moons and stars/idk the Three Fingers smile upon you

Its striking pattern is completely random

So sometimes you ask your inner dragon deity if it can smite a motherfucker and it goes “ayo fambiguity I got you” and fucking kills someone

[gray leaf]

the fextralife descriptions on frenzied flame stuff is very vague; for instance, the page on Inescapable Frenzy says it's buffed by fire damage increases, and the page on Frenzied Flame Incantations says fire damage buffs make most of them stronger, but not Inescapable Frenzy.

[kind garden]

Inescapable Frenzy has, uh, obscure specific rules

Because of it being a command grab with questionable properties and a multi hit

It won’t proc every critical hit effect, but it WILL proc some

[gray leaf]

Yeah. I think this is some stinky cheese that needs some testing. But if it's as good as I think, being able to combo a teleport into it (especially with a frenzied flame seal in the other hand) seems like it can be brutal. And if the opponent expects it, there's numerous ways to fake them out. The stupid frenzy eye laser is a very fast cast, for instance.

[atomic jetty]

||https://www.gamesradar.com/games/action-rpg/actor-behind-shadow-of-the-erdtrees-best-character-igon-didnt-know-how-big-elden-ring-was-thought-his-lines-were-incomprehensible-and-says-miyazaki-was-a-mysterious-figure/|| big mountain boss spoilers

This is so elden ring

[left willow]

Is this DLC spoilers?

@atomic jetty that is a DLC boss, would you mind spoiling it?

[languid tiger]

IT'S PEAK, YOUR HONOR

[atomic jetty]

You are so right
I'm still waking up

[gray leaf]

Rock Blaster/Shatter Earth could be funny to teleport into. Explosive Ghostflame or Gelmir's Fury maybe? Vortex of Putrescence? Potentially? But I want to see someone trying to pvp with teleporting into inescapable frenzy.

[dusty kraken]

Teleporting?

[languid tiger]

miriam's vanishing

[left willow]

Thank you :)

Miriam's Vanishing seems like it's gonna be really handy for dealing with the really heavy-hitting shield mobs

(Black Knights, Crucible Knights, etc.)

[dusty kraken]

Oh, that's very cool

It's what those fucking basic rookie sorcerers do all the time.

That annoying spell

[gray leaf]

Vortex of Putrescence probably has good utility in pvp with its weird delayed damage… I’m tempted to call it okizeme (and then make someone else type up the full explanation for that).

Radagon’s has the benefit of being chargeable to mess with dodge timing. Vortex technically is, but there’s always enough of a delay to make the timing more readable.

[languid tiger]

and, importantly, preceptor miriam!

but she does uh