Elden Ring (DLC hype room)

[golden pond]

that's big big in dlc

[vivid spire]

Are there talismans that up arcane

[obtuse halo]

Also is it just me or does the charge do really inconsistent damage? Sometimes it just clips for a third of my hp, but I also just got flat oneshot by it

[vivid spire]

Other than the Outer God Talisman

[glossy delta]

The thing you gotta remember is that outside of weapon buffs, which don't matter on a caster build anyway, the only thing spells care about is your incant buff
So you can have 15 faith and 99 arcane and that lightning spear will be hitting like crazy
Because the arcane is giving you tons of spellbuff on your seal

[vivid spire]

Ohhh yeah

I keep forgetting the seals are specialized

[old brook]

100%, it's the reason it sometimes vaporizes summons

[vivid spire]

Oh I need 36 faith for knights spear

Dammit

I’m out of tears

That’s fine I’ll fix it somehow

[old brook]

To the Frogs of Runefarming

[golden pond]

CE

[frail sky]

The what?

Oh the albinaurics

[old brook]

There's a line of Albinaurics in Mohgtown that net thousands of runes ye

[glossy delta]

Dynasty Mausoleum Lookout or whatever that one farming spot is called I as- yeah

[old brook]

The Suffering Zone

[vivid spire]

I’m level 173

What’s the limit for multiplayer again

[golden pond]

are you planning to pvp

[vivid spire]

175?

Nope

[golden pond]

then it doens't matter

[vivid spire]

I thought that above 175 you get less summon help

[old brook]

Idk if it's changed for dlc either it's just kind of a vibe

[golden pond]

it most likely did

[vivid spire]

I knew level affected PvP but I was told it affects pve too

[old brook]

People just decided to stop leveling at 150 for pvp so it sort of became the thing to do and well it also just gets a lot more expensive

[vivid spire]

With the summon signs visible

[golden pond]

you can always ask for help here

password pve is level synced

[vivid spire]

xbox

[frail sky]

I assume people are gonna be leveling higher in the dlc anyway

[old brook]

o7

[frail sky]

You kinda need it

[old brook]

How's performance been

[vivid spire]

Rough without help

[old brook]

The people playing this on ps4... woof

[vivid spire]

I’m at the final boss

So that’s that

But my question is

Does leveling affect the number of summon signs

[signal harness]

no afaik

[vivid spire]

Or just for password pve

Oh my god

Why did my friends tell me it affected pve

[signal harness]

the 150 number is basically a courtesy level for the pvp community

[vivid spire]

I’ve been wasting millions of runes because I thought I didn’t need to level

[golden pond]

it used to be like that in dark souls

idk if they changed it for elden ring

[old brook]

I'll admit it does feel better than 99 in everything or whatever

Builds can be Builds

[vivid spire]

My friend is a fucking moron

I’m gonna slap him

[signal harness]

yeah for sure I think its real good for pvp

[vivid spire]

Has the uh

[signal harness]

But for pve it doesn't really matter afaik

[vivid spire]

“Cooperator could not be summoned” calmed down yet

[limpid peak]

there is no fixed number, just a range

and the suggested minimum level for the DLC is 150

[old brook]

But also: a lot a lot of people are playing, you will see signs at any level I figure

Streamers are like 750 and getting random folks

[vivid spire]

Also platform matters

[golden pond]

OH SICK

i can drop dragonshield talisman

[vivid spire]

I’m gonna try and get the bloody fork

[golden pond]

cause i'ts only 7% now

[frail sky]

I genuinely do not think you will have any issues as long as you don't level up to something like 250 or whatever

[vivid spire]

I just wanted to get to maybe 176

Or 180

[signal harness]

I just level up when I have enough tbh

I think I'm like 157 just from random stuff playing the expansion some

(Haven't played much since I went on a trip shortly after release but holy shit does it give out runes cheaply)

[golden pond]

fucking stupid sword

[mellow silo]

You have a 25 level buffer for summoning pools I believe

[limpid peak]

(I already posted that)

[frail sky]

That has already been posted yes

[golden pond]

200 can match with 170

so there's that

[mellow silo]

Huh

[golden pond]

reposting for ballistic

[mellow silo]

That's neat

[golden pond]

and 170 can match 198 it seems

neat

so yeah it's around 30 upper level buffer when you ge tto 170+

30 lower level buffer at 200+

[vivid spire]

I don’t hav enough fp for taylew

Oof

[old brook]

I basically use my flask as an Ash Summoner

I ain't paying for them levels

Lil rough with the repeated nerfs but you can fit a lot in there

[golden pond]

current setup now that my blessing is high enough to get aaround 60% dr without amulets for dr

[vivid spire]

Bloody fork drop rate is meh

[old brook]

Oh I didn't even realize it was random

[frozen olive]

just get the sacred fork

it's guaranteed drop

[vivid spire]

Where is it?

[frozen olive]

sorry, Rajang fight rn, one sec

[golden pond]

snake ahead
ladder

here we go again

[vivid spire]

Oh nevermind

Just gotta farm the dudes that have it

Oh fuck

I lost all my runes

(: I love bayle

[golden pond]

scrble igon arc

[frozen olive]

you can farm the birb or partake in the albinauric killings for some runes

[vivid spire]

No seriously uh

Igons sign wasn’t there

[vivid spire]

?????

Bird

[signal harness]

what is going on here

[golden pond]

igon's sign is in the arena

[frozen olive]

there is a bird you can farm in mohg's house that gives like 40k runes per kill

[golden pond]

less

17k with gold foot and scarab

albinaurics give 40k per run

[frozen olive]

i see i see

[golden pond]

bird is faster if you don't have like the big massive light wave that htis half the albinaurics at once

[frozen olive]

Bird is only relevant then until you beat Elden Beast i guess

[golden pond]

or you can just use starscourge swords

i love that my mimic will just style on whateve rwe kill by spinning the staff

she's so extra

[vivid spire]

SCRIBBLE IGON ARC.

[golden pond]

CURSE YOUUUUU

[vivid spire]

I thought he would be much easier now that I got more fragments

He is not easier

It’s like the arcane scaling isn’t doing anything..

[golden pond]

how many fragments you got

[vivid spire]

16

[golden pond]

huh

yeah moons are so broken lmao

[vivid spire]

I’m using an occult milady and bleed too

It’s.. not affecting Bayle

[golden pond]

i think he has high resistances for elements and status effects

but low pierce res

[frozen olive]

time for dragon hunting sword

[golden pond]

or just use the harpoons

[old brook]

Sacred Spear is also great for Albinauric Rune Farm, appropriately

[old brook]

I think this is a Bayle specific, scales tend to be slashing resistant

[vivid spire]

This bitch is IMMUNE.

Pierce is working

But uh

I thought I’d have gotten at the very least

Slightly better damage output

It’s like the game didn’t acknowledge my progress at all

[golden pond]

i think he's just a chunky boi

what's your setup? talismans and stuff too

[vivid spire]

I keep getting bitten

GOT HIM

[golden pond]

based bestie

[vivid spire]

IGON IS LITERALLY ME

Also uh

[golden pond]

||https://fxtwitter.com/kitsurogue/status/1806367832386437381|| 🙏

[vivid spire]

What does ||Thiollers concoction|| do

I saw a video of someone using it on the dragon lady

I’m not sure what I did with mine

[vestal night]

drink it and see for yourself

you can buy more from him too

[vivid spire]

I’m at the final boss

I can’t buy more from him

[golden pond]

||you cna drug her to get her as a summon by breaking her connection to Parthurnax||

[vivid spire]

I know it ||kills|| me

[vivid spire]

Oh that’s uh..

[golden pond]

||only before bayle tho||

[vivid spire]

That’s kinda fucked

[glossy delta]

Funnily thats debatably the good end to her quest

[golden pond]

well

[vivid spire]

II just killed Bayle

[golden pond]

depends

[vivid spire]

Oh my god

Why is it that without a walkthrough I get the shitty endings lol

[glossy delta]

I did say 'debatably'

[kind garden]

it's this thing called "playing a souls game"

[vivid spire]

): she gone

Also uh

Tyrrany or Flame Lightning

[glossy delta]

both are bad as I understand it, dragon communion stay losing (ignore rot breath)

[old brook]

Honestly at this point helping someone kill Bayle and then ||dying|| is a fine ending for ol' Dragon Priestess

It has been a long, long, long time

[frail sky]

||There's something funny about the dlc being about the tragedy of the cycle of violence/revenge, and then there's Igon who (while utterly mad) is one of the coolest npcs in elden ring despite dedicating the rest of his life to hunting down and killing Bayle||

[glossy delta]

||Flame Lightning is very cool though, basically Big Dragonclaw||

||I wish you got like||
||Flame Lightning Spear or something instead 😭||

[old brook]

||'vengeance is bad, cycles, sure, but what if a big lizard was so mean'||

[old brook]

||WINGS, LET US FLY-BY||

[vivid spire]

Damn.. she was kinda pretty

(I am not a furry so I cannot fully comment)

[old brook]

I'll admit

[vivid spire]

Godzilla time

[old brook]

I'm not sure where people

[golden pond]

scaley*

[old brook]

go

when they die in the death zone

[vivid spire]

I’m gonna just say

Since we didn’t get clothes or a corpse

Maybe it’s just a gift

I killed placi but he’s also beyond space and time so like

Maybe it’s a branching timeline

[old brook]

He was also like frozen on the verge of falling apart

I think the only thing keeping Bayle alive was actual hate

[golden pond]

get naked and use the item she left 👁️

it's so pog

[kind garden]

gotta strip

[golden pond]

strip goat

[vivid spire]

Hmmmm

[kind garden]

what's up, meth goat?

[vivid spire]

But I won’t be a hot twink anymore

[glossy delta]

I mean ||you got one very vital organ||

[kind garden]

https://youtu.be/H9Jex-wP8H0

[kind garden]

||To be fair, the Ancient Dragon-Man doesn't seem to need his that badly||

[vivid spire]

I mean maybe she has two

[old brook]

how does this not have Kefka's theme playin >:0

[vivid spire]

Dragons are weird man

[kind garden]

IT DOES YOU-

YOU!!!

DOUBLE SPOONY BARD

[old brook]

I'M IMPATIENT

30 WHOLE SECONDS

[vivid spire]

Also how’s this

[kind garden]

solid drip

[old brook]

ogh solid

also where'd they get that big ol bowl

[golden pond]

from big bowl store

idiot

didn't think of that, did you

[glossy delta]

||I honestly assumed the Rock Heart came from another person who underwent the transformation and not the Dragon Man specifically||

[old brook]

the pottery dragon.. hecke

[golden pond]

Pottisax

[glossy delta]

Since they aren't found in the same place

[kind garden]

I mean, probably

but let the florissax enjoyers cope

[vivid spire]

Can anyone tell me where the dlc memory stones are

[obtuse halo]

There aren't any.

[vivid spire]

I got one

From Rabbath’s Rise iirc

[kind garden]

the hell

[obtuse halo]

...okay well then I missed it and any others that might exist if that's true

[frail sky]

Isn’t that just where you get the cannon?

[vivid spire]

I missed one stone so I just have eight

[obtuse halo]

I left to restock on arrows and still kicking my ass

[golden pond]

yeah no, rabbath's doesn't have a stone

[tropic stream]

btw how do Rabbath's and normal Jar Cannon compare?

[tropic stream]

God drake knight with winged helm is so hot

[obtuse halo]

Yeah that's a good combo

drake helm was always a little...odd

[vivid spire]

Oh my god you really think so

[golden pond]

472 phys + 472 magic
vs 672 phys

[vivid spire]

Thank youuuu

[tropic stream]

I mean look at it lol

[obtuse halo]

Drake Helm is like...I wish you could alter it to take off the silly horn

a black sallet would be sick

[golden pond]

rabbath's is basically better

[glossy delta]

I just realized......
The ||dragon forms|| have flat DR and add no equip load
So they might be really good for Blue Dancer builds 🤔

[tropic stream]

Honestly need Drake Knight

[obtuse halo]

just pretend the horn isn't there and this is sick

[glossy delta]

And there are some really good weapons in the DLC with virtually no equip load (martial arts, beast claws)

So it seems quite possible to do a build that gets nearly max increase from the charm

[obtuse halo]

Yeah, that's probably your go-to option if you want to do a blue dancer build now

the hard part is that talismans have weight, and you're really on a razor thin margin for that

[median rock]

nah you're pretty ok

[obtuse halo]

though if you're just using talismans and beast claws or something you might be able to squeak it

[median rock]

my martial arts build was around 6 weight w blue dancer

[glossy delta]

I believe for the best soft cap you have to keep everything under 6
So beast claws, dragon communion seal, talismans

[median rock]

normal blue dancer setups are just naked so the forms are just a minor upgrade

[tropic stream]

I'm still a little salty the martial arts have weight

[kind garden]

does Lamenter form give you anything

[glossy delta]

I know the perfume talisman also boosts perfume bottles
Blue Dancer only affects physical damage but....
The poison bottle does phys 👁️

[kind garden]

okay it's just +8 ARC and the option to use the headbutt

[median rock]

lamenter is better for blue dancer imo

[glossy delta]

Naked arcane build, rot breath and poison bottle 🤔

[signal harness]

It looks dumb as hell honestly, though the rest of the set is great

[kind garden]

hold up how is lamenter, which doesn't defend you at all, better than dragon form

is the headbutt that good?

[median rock]

no but the dragon forms give less flat bonuses

lamenter gives more arc

[glossy delta]

Dragon Form gives you damage reduction as if you were wearing some armor, which is the main concern I imagine

[median rock]

your best option is bleed fists or smth

eh. you're still naked

[kind garden]

bleed martial arts...

[median rock]

like the DR is 10% of your normal one or something like that, it's not hitting remotely close to armor

plus you'll have light roll

I tried all 3 forms and I ended up preferring the stone dragon one for looks though anyway tbh

since the bonuses are really inconsequential if you're near arc softcap, I think?

[kind garden]

wait hold up

do dragon forms boost your ARC?

[median rock]

idts

[kind garden]

ok

[median rock]

they buff their incants instead

[kind garden]

in that case I guess it's down to what you're building

[median rock]

if you're running dragon cult or communion stuff I'm pretty sure you want like. other buffs n stuff to make those valuable. not sure blue dancer is the best way to go for that

bc it doesnt affect most of those spells

[obtuse halo]

yeah like I said, I wish it were just a nice black Sallet. That'd look good on all manner of things. But alas. 😛

[glossy delta]

The buff to ancient dragon cult from using the heart while already in dragon form is like 20% or something though so if you are hurling knights lightning spears around with a 80 faith 80 arc dragon communion seal uhmmmmm 😳

[kind garden]

as always

form changes are pretty niche in most Souls games

[junior spade]

Dancer bleed dryleaf sounds Nuts

[median rock]

it is

the dancer buff is actually pretty minor bc of how it only applies to the scaling dmg

so I eventually gave up and went back to cold

[golden pond]

||fire knight summon ||

[obtuse halo]

yeah dancer buff is pretty small

😔

it's just not that good even under its ideal circumstances

[median rock]

its rly good for rl1

imo

because you have bad scaling and no max equip load lol

[obtuse halo]

yeah that's fair

[junior spade]

You do need as many buffs as possible at l1

[median rock]

I mean specifically it's good bc you can get it very quickly and it has no reqs

[vivid spire]

How do you get 80 80

[glossy delta]

Being level 200 and whatever like my chars lmao

[golden pond]

you level to 80 80 c:

[median rock]

u can get 60 vig 20 mind 80 faith 80 arc at lvl 200 flat, assuming wretch

[vivid spire]

Oh

[obtuse halo]

Nobody needs end, trufax

[vivid spire]

I can’t do 200…

I’ll stick with my build for now

[golden pond]

hog ridah

time

[vivid spire]

How do I beat the second divine lion

[median rock]

he beat my ass repeatedly and mercilessly until I hit a zen state. probably went from most hated boss to actually a decently fun one now

rauh?

I just kept running him back until I won, summons that arent mimic tear can help - like tiche. you can also cheese with ranged weps I think. boluses for the deathblight make that manageable

[frail sky]

Final dungeon spoiler: ||whatever this thing is, I really hope it's worth the hell it took to get to it||

[vivid spire]

I’ll do pustule for the blight and tiche thanks

[median rock]

I think I put on boltdrake+3 and whatever the 2nd tier if pustule was yeah

[vestal night]

oh hey you got the thing

[old brook]

well i'm full on scadutree and level 200 and this remains the worst boss of all time

[median rock]

man I found that shit on scadu cleanup duty and I was like. wtf this path keeps going why is it so long

[vivid spire]

Got him

[median rock]

final boss? ||yeah the divine judgement meganuke attk just straight up kills me by reducing my fps to 3||

ey nice scrble

[old brook]

That is my favorite attack

i wish he'd only do that

[median rock]

wtf

[old brook]

everything else is absolute fuckin cancer

[vivid spire]

It’s strong as hell but uh

[median rock]

I still don't know how to dodge it

[old brook]

that's a four minute windup and it makes a keening noise the whole time

[vivid spire]

Just remember that the base game has so much holy resist

[median rock]

braid talisman just made me not have to care

[old brook]

my problem is SLASH SLASH SLASH SLASH SLASH SLASH SLASH SLASH JUMP SLASH SLASH SLASH SLASH JUMP SLASH SLASH SLASH

[median rock]

well as much

[vivid spire]

It’s very fun

[median rock]

it shall go on the pile of weps to try

[vivid spire]

Also if I do a dex faith build, I can still do fire incantations right

Even though it’s not strength scaling

[median rock]

they should be all faith locked only, not int etc. locked

if that's what you're asking

[vivid spire]

Oh I meant like

Is not scaling into strength for fire incantations useful

[median rock]

you can offhand the seal

and cast with one w better scaling if applicable

[old brook]

Incantation scaling only matters depending on what seal you have

it's not like Ashes of War

[median rock]

offhanded seals still grant the damage buff even if you're casting through another one

where damage buff = the 15/20% buff to that incant class

[golden pond]

annoying ass plant

[vivid spire]

Oh

So a full pyromancer build could still be 50dex 60fai

And not touch strength due to offhand

Alright

[median rock]

im also not sure that str affects either fire seal very much anyway

fextra says both FK seal and giants flame seal is d tier strength at +25

[vivid spire]

Oh

[glossy delta]

Hmmmmm
One use of Savage Claws maxes out Rotten Sword Talisman (and millicents prosthesis) 🤔
And it has increased stagger values compared to beast claw normal attacks (it stun locks exiled knights and omen, whereas regular attacks dont)
This seems like Something

[median rock]

at 50 dex 60 faith godslayers has 291 scaling vs giantsflame 273 - 6% better. dunno about FK seal but probably similar, aka not a huge deal if you dont care that much. also, if you're in NG+ having a copy of a seal both offhanded n main handed will stack its spell class buff 2x

[tropic stream]

For your build, probs tbh

[golden pond]

i really wanna see like

ideas page for this dlc

cause i bet the bosses section just has "DO NOT LET THEM DO ANYTHING RIGHT OTU OF THE FOG GATE" underlined like 6 times

[median rock]

me when I enter the fog gate and immediately have to roll through hog rider

[golden pond]

me hwen he literally wil not let me do anything

because god forbid i'm alloewd to use a summon

tho tbf

it's a pretty good gauge of "Does Lynn like this boss"

all the bosses i like DO NOT jump at you the moment you go through the gaet

[frail sky]

Final Dungeon: ||Oh hey she finally realized I'm not on Miquella's side||

[vivid spire]

Found it

Gender Euphoria obtained

[glossy delta]

Read this in like 15 minutes: ||This is like the best part of the DLC||

[golden pond]

||that was like 20 hours ago when you hti rellana||

[frail sky]

||...oh yeah she started the dlc thinking I was charmed didn't she||
||Oh, I can summon Thiollier and Ansbach can I? For a clash with Leda? Hell yeah||

[mellow silo]

Most fun fight in the game tbh

other than Messmer

Also, FKGS spotted 👀

[vivid spire]

Have fun

[frail sky]

This is so cool

[vivid spire]

Forgot to mention

I like the Poleblade

It’s good for arcane

Also I choose to believe that ||Flowerstone|| is a love token because that’s cute ahh

Oh damn

I am going to soundly ignore ||radahn||

[old brook]

o7

[vivid spire]

I keep getting my teeth kicked in

[frail sky]

||Oh come on this isn't even the first time she's gone mad and killed the non believers?||

[old brook]

And ||That makes it sound like she killed the other Needle Knights, like-, not even Nonbelievers. People that don't believe enough. Correctly.||

||Girl is TOXIC kinda love||

Incredible fashion though

[vivid spire]

Like I was like ooh hot

But my turnaround was basically by the second boss

Absolutely not girlboss you’re hot but I can’t

[old brook]

It's such a swift tone shift

[vivid spire]

I just wanted a silly knight gf

But noooo

She has to be a goddamn fundie

Perverting miquellas words

(I think)

[frail sky]

||Thiollier finally getting some respect||

[vivid spire]

My beautiful darling

[frail sky]

||Girl just constantly starts purges||
||Like, geez do you think maybe the reason Miquella charmed you was to stop your rampages?||

[golden pond]

last remembrance boss time

[umbral portal]

||It's entirely possible, cause the first thing she did when uncharmed was purge||

[vivid spire]

||I hope she’s perverting their words and this isn’t what Miquella actually wants||

[frail sky]

My controller is starting to die for good so I might not get too many attempts of it

[umbral portal]

||Miquella isn't a good person, I don't think he'd approve but he'd see it as a necessity||

||Or at least, just a thing that happens||

[vivid spire]

Oh dear

Apathy cannot be the same as malice but it’s close at times

[umbral portal]

||Miquella is a self righteous manipulator and "user". He's a bad person||

[frail sky]

||“I’m sure all the others are going to start killing each other! I have to kill them all before they can do it!”||

[vivid spire]

I’m trying to accept this

It’s just a videogame why am I going through denial

It’s like denying that a friend is manipulative

[umbral portal]

You can always like

step away from the game and take a breath

[vivid spire]

Oh no it’s great

I’m having an amazing time digesting it I just didn’t think it would hit me so hard

[frail sky]

||Remember, the reason the Haligtree is suffering so badly is because he abandoned it for this new plan||

[vivid spire]

Yeah it clashes with my original base game idea that he couldn’t get back from wherever he went

But now I know. He just ||Abandoned everyone. Especially Malenia.||

There’s an argument to be made that he willingly abandoned ||Malenia|| I think

[umbral portal]

||I'd argue he did more than that. He manipulated Malenia, Radahn, and Mohg||

||Like it's pretty explicit||

||He used Malenia to kill Radahn, for one||

[frail sky]

||Come to think of it, I haven't seen Malenia mentioned at all in the dlc. Goes to show how much he actually cares about her||

[umbral portal]

||And given how Malenia acts, it's entirely possible he charmed her||

[golden pond]

well that was a joke of a boss lmao

[frail sky]

Which one?

[vivid spire]

Left my wife for dead

Some golden schmuck

[frail sky]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume the final boss is gonna be resistant to holy

[vivid spire]

||(: I'm gonna kill him in Haligtree garb to send a message||

[vivid spire]

Find the ||Shaman Village||

[frail sky]

I know about that, I meant if the boss is gonna be resistant

[golden pond]

||finger mamasita||

[frail sky]

Final Boss: ||Oh hell yes||

[golden pond]

yeah but where's igon

[frail sky]

||These guys are getting summoned 100%||

||I don't care if they're useful or not, they're coming with me||

||That is a sick boss intro||

[vivid spire]

HAVE FUN

[frail sky]

I've been killed twice in as many minutes and I'm smiling

[vivid spire]

||KILL LORD MIQUELLA||

[frail sky]

So far the moves seem dodgeable, I just have a skill issue

[vivid spire]

Yeah one of his swings has an odd hitbox

It's one of the side sweeps thatll hit you constantly

[golden pond]

and what?

AND WHAT FROMSOFT?

[glossy delta]

'Pliant', according to datamining

[frail sky]

||Oooh, bloodflame. Guess that's from being Mohg's corpse then||

[tropic stream]

I think I'm gonna remake my faith build into a dragon communion build

Or a dragon aesthetic build

[atomic plinth]

...boy it sure would be fucking great if my character would dodge when I fucking press the dodge button

Also what the FUCK is that ability Hornsent has, that fucking melted my HP and it barely grazed me

[vivid spire]

???????

[golden pond]

testing ashes on malenia

||yoda putting in work, actually||

[tropic stream]

||Yoda's|| great

[golden pond]

he got like 10% of her hp consistently

and then got hit like 4 times and she's back to full

also ngl

would love if we could do what he does and use the blink as an aow

or sumtin

[tropic stream]

I think I'm gonna grab a twinblade for my dex build

[frail sky]

Final boss: ||well that's an early phase 2!||
||and holy shit did that opening attack kill my frame rate||

||and also me||

[frozen olive]

||It's a real ass fight for sure||

||Radahn ain't holding back||

[frail sky]

||Pretty fun so far though, I can tell all of my deaths are from me mistiming a dodge or something similar. Or at least that's true for phase one, I haven't reached phase two again yet||

[atomic plinth]

||...fought the gang just now||

||I just feel kinda depressed||

||At least Ansbach was on my side||

[tropic stream]

If you infuse a weapon with bleed, can you still buff it with bloodflame blade?

[vestal night]

IIRC no

[vivid spire]

Welcome

[tropic stream]

Feck

[old brook]

Also there's like a 50/50 shot if an innate bleed weapon can be buffed or not

Lil annoying

[golden pond]

ay yo

||bloodfiend hexer's ashes||

insane actually

||got 2 bleeds off on Malenia all by himself AND he has blood lor'd exultation cause he gets a body buff afterwards||

||dogshit at range, insane at melee||

[atomic plinth]

...ugh

This Mausoleum in Liurnia is such a pain

I'm just gonna wait until late night when it settles itself down, shooting at these skulls is really annoying

[tropic stream]

I think I've figured out a good way to make a 'trashcan knight' build

or rather armor look

[limpid peak]

literally everyone except Godwyn

and I'm beginning to doubt Godwyn

[atomic plinth]

...oh damn, this helmet actually goes really good with the unaltered banished knight armor

I was starting to wonder if I wasn't gonna be able to find anything that fit with it cause it's such a weird color

[limpid peak]

oh, that looks pretty cool despite the different metal

[atomic plinth]

...oh man this looks even better though

And I can wear whatever the fuck leggings I want, you won't be able to see it past the hem of the coat

[tropic stream]

behold the trash goblin knight

[mellow silo]

Try Eccentric gloves

[vernal imp]

I kind of love this. What pieces?

[golden pond]

||gf is currently fighting tree sentinel with land squirts, she has so much more patience and she's so much more stubborn than me||

[tropic stream]

No have

[tropic stream]

Vagabond helmet, (dlc npc) ||Igon's|| Armor, Mausoleum Gauntlets & Greaves

[glossy delta]

What's the torso here? Don't recognize the combo of the tabard and the furs

[tropic stream]

banished knight

like it says in the caption XD

[glossy delta]

But

The banished knight chest does not look like that

I suspect a mod

[tropic stream]

You can alter the chest (technically de-alter it)

It is not a mod lol

[glossy delta]

What in gods almighty fucking name
I've gone two years not knowing you could alter the banished chest
I knew about the helmet but
Neat, I suppose

[tropic stream]

XD

[glossy delta]

Oh wait

No I'm NOT crazy
You can't actually alter the chest yourself, it drops from two highly specific banished knights

[fleet bronze]

Correct yeah

[glossy delta]

In Castle Sol

[fleet bronze]

It says (altered) but is a completely different piece of armor effectively

[glossy delta]

Well time to farm that, its neat
DS2-ass item drop my lord

[fleet bronze]

Fair warning though, from someone else who farmed for it, it also has a non-removable black cape

[glossy delta]

I've put both of my characters into NG+ to try DLC stuff 😔
So time to uh
Blitz all the shardbearers with my arc fella

Local mad dog Savage Claws the Lands Between back into political stability

[tropic stream]

Herra the Drakepiercer

[raw coral]

Finally got to the DLC!!

||Why is Yoda in this gaol||

[golden pond]

HE'S SUCH A BASED SUMMON

||i threw him at malenia, he did like 10% on his own, dodging her attacks||

then got shit on

[glossy delta]

||Product placement by Disney||

[golden pond]

there's 2 ashes in particular that are so fucking funny and weirdly strong

[raw coral]

Had deflecting tear for the fight and while it was over quick, it was an absolute blast

[golden pond]

||Bloodfiend and Messmer Soldiers||

[glossy delta]

Savage Claw is so fucked up my lord
This move must have some wonky ass motion values
It fully maxes out rotten sword talismans damage ramp up
And if all the hits land it procs Godskin Swaddling cloth twice
Which is unheard of afaik

[frail sky]

A true drake warrior 😌

[raw coral]

||I’ve only fought a couple but I can imagine why Messmer soldiers would be a strong summon||

[vivid spire]

Pray tell

[golden pond]

||Bloodfiend guy can bleed the fuck otu of people and Messmer Soldiers have pretty good poise damage||

[vivid spire]

Do they not get staggered as hard

[golden pond]

||bloodfiend guy almost solo'd Morgott, i was only healing and takign aggro||

[golden pond]

yeah, only bad point

they can get staggered hard by hard hitting attacks

so like Elden Lord Big Show melted them

but they kept knocking over malenia nad if not for the heal, they'd kill

at least phase 1

[vivid spire]

Is yosh pretty good

[golden pond]

he likes to zoom around and dodge

he's also just funny

[tropic stream]

It is actually so much fun hunting dragons

I think I have every single incant now

[vivid spire]

I realized

I never made a dragon communion oc

Dragon wife?!?? Perhaps?!?

Maybe I’ll try out the flowerstone gavel

Unsure how good it is

[tropic stream]

Wait

I'm missing one

cracks knuckles

[vivid spire]

Yall important question

Uhh.. the base dragons are more like animals than the named ones right

[frail sky]

🤷‍♀️

[vivid spire]

Oh

I’m not sure why the named ones hate their “lower” cousins

[kind garden]

this is explained by Florissax

[mellow silo]

That's actually explained in the DLC

[mellow silo]

Yeah, this

Basically (spoilers obviously) ||Bayle rebelled against the dragonlord Placidusax, and after he fled, he became the father of the lesser dragons, the drakes. From that day, the ancient dragons have hated the drakes, and created Draconic Communion as a way to punish them||

[kind garden]

the tl;dr is that ||they're of Bayle's line, and Bayle is an asshole who ruined everything for the Ancient Dragon race by having a fight with Placidusax for the title of Lord that no one won and lost their race the Elden Ring in the process, so there's major beef to the point that Dragon Communion was started specifically by Placidusax as a way of outsourcing his revenge on Bayle and his kin||

[frail sky]

||I love their logic for it, they basically just went “if we tell humans this’ll make them more powerful, someone will eventually kill Bayle. You know how those humans are”||

[golden pond]

||it worked||

[frail sky]

||They did, in fact, know how those humans are||

[tropic stream]

FIRST TRY BITCH

[kind garden]

||I'll note that while we don't know for sure that Bayle's battle with Placidusax is what lost the Ancient Dragons the Elden Ring, we don't have a better theory for what happened to make Placidusax's God-consort flee or why they don't have it anymore, so the best explanation to hand is that the Bayle-Placidusax bout ended in a massive fucking L for dragonkind||

[tropic stream]

RAH

[vivid spire]

Oh yeah ik that

I feel bad for Placi ngl

Bayle seems like an ass

[frail sky]

Bayle looks like dragon Satan tbh

[mellow silo]

That's because he is lmao

[kind garden]

Mildly Luciferian

[tropic stream]

I am so proud that I first tried both big bad bitch dragons today

first try, first time fighting either

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[real shadow]

||My current theory is that the fight with Bayle was so intense that Placi was critically wounded and on the verge of death, and pleaded to his god to save him. He only got silence in return, making him realize his god had disappeared, and retreated to Farum Azula to prevent his death and to also wait for his god to return.||

||With no Elden Lord in place, and Bayle himself likely in no condition to take that claim, Marika and humanity moved in and took over everything.||

||Now, we have no idea who Placi's god was and that's left up to interpretation, but I suspect it was the Greater Will under an alias as a kind of...trial run, of sorts. It feels like an opportunistic being.||

[frozen olive]

Bayle absolutely IS Dragon satan

[tropic stream]

I'm gonna try moidering ||Senessax||

[jaunty solar]

Is Mohg a Shardbearer?

I ask because I'm speedrunning to him after killing Godfrey

[trail sail]

Yes

[tropic stream]

||Senessax|| down

First try again

[frozen olive]

Kill all traitors

[atomic plinth]

Que?

[tropic stream]

the spoilered boss is a traitor to the ancient dragons

Also

Decided to test the bow with the harpoons against normal enemies (a death rite bird and gravesite birds)

Still hits

[atomic plinth]

Oooooooooooooooh

[tropic stream]

Love it

[atomic plinth]

Wait how?

[frozen olive]

||Senessax is a follower of Bayle The Dread||

[tropic stream]

||They're an ancient dragon that sided with Bayle, maimer of Placidusax||

[atomic plinth]

Ah, I see

[frozen olive]

||Most likely followed Bayle after his battle with Placidusax and subsequent retreat||

[tropic stream]

btw

This shit trivializes field bosses

[atomic marsh]

Okay

I have

a theory

||Messmer and Melina are "twins" in the respect that Messmer has a body but no soul, but Melina has a soul but no body. Each one are halves of the same being.||

[frozen olive]

||We know that Melina had a body but lost it after being burned to death iirc||

||Somehow her spirit survived this which is completely unknown as to how, and she mentions that she has no memories of the purpose her mother gave her||

[atomic marsh]

||Yes. I think the burning sent Messmer to the Shadow Realm but Melina to the Lands Between.||

[frail sky]

||Why would Messmer not have a soul?||

[mellow silo]

Snek got hungry

[frozen olive]

||We know that Marika specifically sent Messmer to the land of Shadows, and that he was left there after Marika replaced his remaining eye with a seal out of fear||

[atomic marsh]

||Melina also has the exact same seal.||

[frozen olive]

||The reason he is in the Land of Shadows was to genocide the Hornsent people on Marikas behalf||

[frail sky]

||And to be as awful as possible about it so they focus their hate on him instead of Marika||

[frozen olive]

||She does?||

[frail sky]

||Not that I’m aware of||

[atomic marsh]

||Yeah, they both have the eye tattoo||

[frozen olive]

||She seems to just have one normal eye and a purple one as far as i remember||

[atomic marsh]

Okay well I will say

this isn't spoilers

[frozen olive]

Fair

[atomic marsh]

But nah she has her eye closed the entire game until she opens it during the Frenzied Flame ending or while being set on fire

WHICH

||Both Melina and Messmer are fuel for their respective tree burnings||

[frail sky]

…but her eye is completely different

[atomic marsh]

||And as far as we can tell no other siblings have been cursed by the same god twice||

[frozen olive]

Her closed eye is purple and honestly looks quite a bit like Blaidd's eye or the Beast Eye

[frail sky]

||Messmer's face for reference||

[glossy delta]

I agree that theres probably something to ||them both having fucked up eyes||

[frozen olive]

Probably

[atomic marsh]

||They ARE siblings||

||Like that's basically all but confirmed||

[frozen olive]

||They are in all likelyhood direct siblings, all of the data points towards it being the case||

[obtuse halo]

That eye is a major reason people speculated ||Melina was somehow the Gloam-Eyed Queen||, just because ||"Gloam" is the sort of light darkness of evening||

idk if I buy that at this point though

just too much mystery surrounding that character and the connection is very weak

[mellow silo]

Yeah, a certain boss kinda throws that into doubt

[frozen olive]

||Messmer's other sisters, Ranni and Malenia, cannot possibly be the sister mentioned in his Kindling because they do not have any connections to fire and he likely precedes them by a decent amount of time||

[atomic marsh]

||Well Ranni for one isn't his sister....teeeeeeeeeeeeechnicallyyyyyyy||

||Maybe depending possibly maybe||

[frozen olive]

||The only person that exists in the story and fits with the details given is Melina. To the point that ot genuikely wouldn't make sense for it not to be her||

[glossy delta]

INB4 ||Melina isn't any of these MFs and DLC2 is gonna roll up with Messmer's sister, the Gloam Eyed Queen||
||In case it wasn't clear DLC2 is /j||

[frozen olive]

||Marika is Radagon and Radagon is Marika, thus Ranni's dad is Messmer's mom. As such, siblings||

[atomic marsh]

||Yes but it's muddled, and Messmer is specifically said NOT to be related to Radahn.||

||What the fuck ARE these snakes||

||Why is there no Snake Outer God||

[frail sky]

Where is that?

[frozen olive]

When is this mentioned?

[mellow silo]

||Probably some aspect of the God Devouring Serpent?||

That's the closest connection I think

[trail sail]

This was my thinking, yeah

[tropic stream]

Yeah Rykard and Messmer are 100% linked beyond aesthetics

Not necessarily relationally beyond being blood, but

come on

[atomic marsh]

Yeah but like

[frozen olive]

I'm still thinking that that is because ||The God Devouring Serpent is a native deity, like what i presume with the Crucible||

[mellow silo]

They're both in big castles

[tropic stream]

Both snakes, both snakes specifically linked to flame

[atomic marsh]

What IS the Serpent, why does it only kinda come up once

It seems to have signifigance on par with the Rot but much less about it

[tropic stream]

oh I have a theory that goes deeper than that

[left willow]

Rykard really saw a noodle and thought "That is what peak performance looks like"

[frozen olive]

||Not all gods in Elden Rings world are outer gods, as we know of presumably the Crucible, the Tutelary deities, and maybe the God Devouring Serpent||

[obtuse halo]

So there's historical beef between serpent cults and deathbird cults on Gelmir

[atomic marsh]

Rykard saw a noodle and went

[frail sky]

||Messmer’s snakes do look kinda like the man serpents now that I think about it. At least the coloration and head shape anyway||

[atomic marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/religion-bill-wurtz-dont-history-gif-14178134

[tropic stream]

I think we shouldn't discount the usage of snakes here possibly being

biblical

[frozen olive]

There was already a snake religion before Rykard

[tropic stream]

especially with how messmer was treated

[obtuse halo]

I mean, Messmer's whole deal is a bit of a telephone game of christian theology, yeah

[left willow]

So there's historical beef between serpent cults and deathbird cults on Gelmir

[obtuse halo]

his remembrance even refers to original sin

[tropic stream]

OH WOW SO THE SNAKE IS JUST SATAN, OKAY

THAT'S NOT EVEN MY THEORY THAT'S JUST TEXTUAL

[frozen olive]

Rykard didn't invent snake religion

[frozen olive]

Correct

[obtuse halo]

no, he didn't

[frozen olive]

There is generational beef between the Lands Between and snakes

[obtuse halo]

he actually "rediscovered" hexes of the old Gelmir Serpent Cults and reworked them into modern Glintstone Sorceries

that's where the Magma Sorceries come from

[frozen olive]

It's mentioned in the Gladiator armor that snakes are like

[atomic marsh]

Where the fuck did he just GET a snake

[frozen olive]

Super hated

And a symbol of betrayal

[obtuse halo]

there's also stuff like the Serpent-God's Curved Sword

[left willow]

My selection of runes I really should remember to use more often

[frozen olive]

Hating snakes is very much an old history thing in the Lands Between

[frail sky]

That’s gotta be like at least 5 levels

[obtuse halo]

SGCS

and tool of a forgotten religion practiced on Mt. Gelmir.

Formerly used to offer up sacrifices, this sword restores HP upon
slaying an enemy.```

[tropic stream]

Hades

wtf

[frozen olive]

||Messmers snake is a part of his body||

[atomic marsh]

||We KNOW where Messmer got his snake||

[frozen olive]

||It literally grows out of him and snakes grow inside him in phase 2||

[halcyon cobalt]

Do you have to kill rahdan and open nokron to get to the lake of rot?

[frail sky]

I think so yeah

[atomic marsh]

||But considering he was born with it cursed, like everyone else, it seems like the God Devouring Serpent is an Outer God to me||

[vestal night]

that's about what my runes look like too, yeah

[halcyon cobalt]

Dang, looks like I'll be going to the DLC sooner than expected

[obtuse halo]

though fwiw the Man-Serpents appear to be post-Rykard snack

Use to summon the spirit of a man-serpent.

Spirit of a deformed man-serpent that wields a whip of magma.
It is said that long ago, the elder serpent that dwelled on Mt. Gelmir devoured a demigod, and the birth of the man-serpents followed.```

[modest berry]

nearly everybody has a fucked up eye in elden ring, at least one

[frozen olive]

||Sems like more of a native god to me considering we go kill Rykard about it||

[obtuse halo]

I agree that the God-Devouring Serpent is probably a native god though

similar to the deathbirds and their worship

[frozen olive]

Much like the crucible

Which was remade into the Erdtree somehow

[tropic stream]

To add to Freyja's theory

[atomic marsh]

The Deathbirds are also considered an Outer God I thought

[tropic stream]

It would further the biblical connotation

[vivid spire]

Here's an idea

Every planet in ER has alien life--gods.

[frozen olive]

The Lands Between actually has quite a lot of native worship

[tropic stream]

If the snakes had their origin in the crucible, and were punishment for Marika's transgression

[frozen olive]

The Outer Gods are only the ones that are poking in from somewhere else

[tropic stream]

And no, the Deathbirds are, as far as I understand it, local

[obtuse halo]

Yeah, sorry, brainfart - there's a Twinbird Outer God said to be the mother of deathbirds

[real shadow]

Fits in with the whole cycle of revenge and violence.

Eye for an eye.

[tropic stream]

Oh they're outer god related?

huh

[modest berry]

the deathbirds are birthed by an outer god called the twinbird yes, however they were part of a cycle that was just before the erdtree, or at least fit in to the crucible cycle afaik

[obtuse halo]

The twinbird is said to be the envoy of an outer god, and mother of the Deathbirds.

At dwindling levels of HP, this shield slightly boosts both attack and defense.```

twinbird kite shield

The sacrificial axe is also associated with sacrifice, similar to the SGCS

The power of the rite yet lingers. A small amount of FP is restored upon slaying a foe.```

[frozen olive]

Such as The Formless Mother, The Red Star, The Frenzied Flame, the Dark Moon, the god of Rot, the Fell God and the Greater Will

[frail sky]

The Red Star?

[frozen olive]

The entity responsible for Thorn Sorcery

[obtuse halo]

They definitely had their own cults though

The priests became guardians of the birds through the rite of Death, which also serves as an oath sworn to their distant resurrection.```

[vestal night]

the thorn sorcery stuff seems like a weird offshoot of glintstone sorcery

[modest berry]

the blood star might just be similar to the moons and stars but it is an outside entity

[frozen olive]

Criminals wore crowns of thorns and the blood covering their eyes blinded them, but in the darkness they saw the Red Star

[vestal night]

some kind of rogue star

[frail sky]

Geez there are a lot of outer gods huh

[frozen olive]

The Stars seem to be where the outer gods hail anyway so i don't see the need to make a distinction

[frail sky]

I mean he’s still awful, just normal awful

[modest berry]

i did see an interesting thing that put forth a theory that because blindness generally symbolizes introspection, that the blood star is just a way of thinking about using your own life force as glinstone inside of like, the lifeblood sap of the universe

[obtuse halo]

Summons a horde of vengeful spirits that chase down foes. Charging enhances potency.

They are cinders of the ancient death hex, raked from the fires of ghostflame by Deathbirds.```
Interestingly, both the predecessors to the Magma Sorceries and Deathbird Death Magic are considered to be Hexes

[vestal night]

yeah glintstone seems to be tapping into some kind of universal energy flow

[frozen olive]

The Dark Moon that Ranni is contracted with is a celestial entity for instance

Which she made a sorcery out of

[frail sky]

I was gonna make a joke about wondering where all the bloodborne gods are but the Formless Mother is basically just Oedon isn’t she

[modest berry]

this game is so full of distinct but overlapping catagories lol

[obtuse halo]

Strike the ground with the staff, triggering an explosion of ghostflame that burns the surrounding area.

In the time when there was no Erdtree, death was burned in ghostflame. Deathbirds were the keepers of that fire.``` Oh there's this too

[frozen olive]

Ranni in the Age of Stars basically becomes a willing empyrean of the Dark Moon and becomes a god, only to vacate the Throne with her Lord and go on a thousand year voyage to the stars

Rennala's full moon may be a similar connected entity somehow or they may be aspects of eachother, the Full and Dark Moons

[modest berry]

interesting thing ive seen and put together, that faram azula might have a twinbird carving here, and the dragons, many have feathers, could placidusax's missing god consort have been an outer god like the mother of the twinbird

[frozen olive]

The Dark Moon if nothing else is some kind of celestial entity

||Rellana's Twin Moons mentions that she and Rennala met overlapping twin moons in their youth, which i presume to be the Full and Dark moons, which lends credence to the idea that they are connected or aspected to eachother||

[obtuse halo]

You can see them yourself at the Moonlight Altar.

[frozen olive]

Oh

Cool

[obtuse halo]

this is not true of the general skybox, so there's something special about the location

[frozen olive]

Well that certainly also lends credence to their connection

[grave plinth]

||Messmer’s eye is specifically a Soreseal/Scarseal of some sort||

[frozen olive]

Skygazing in The Lands Between is legitimately a mystical thing in and of itself per Elden Ring lore

[glossy delta]

I do find it very funny that ||the twin moons literally clip into eachother||

[frozen olive]

Presumably there is something special mystically about that spot

[obtuse halo]

||It is almost definitely Marika's Scar/soreseal||

[obtuse halo]

It's also where The Cathedral of Manus Celes is and ||the two fingers that Ranni kills||, which probably means ||it's connected to the Fingers too||

[frozen olive]

Sorcery did begin with the study of Astrology after all

[modest berry]

many entities planar and extraplanar are similar in elden ring , and the only difference may be what people call them or the way that they think about them

oh thats not an outer god, thats the moon its always been there

[frozen olive]

Well to an extent

Some gods are closer in scope but different in practice

[left willow]

No, that's Sokka's girlfriend

[frozen olive]

Like the Formless Mother and The Red Star

They seem quite similar as blood gods but in practice their agenda is incredibly different

[modest berry]

true! simply put a lot of its too vague

[languid tiger]

unless you do the renna's rise skip

which is hard

[frozen olive]

Formless Mother is big about self love and cursed blood while The Blood Star seems to be more about self harm and guilt and shit

[obtuse halo]

Formless Mother is associated with Blood but her real portfolio is, apparently, Truth

[frozen olive]

Yeah

She empowers the Mohg mans cursed blood which is a form of self truth which he becomes infatuated with

[atomic marsh]

Wait what the fuck is the Red Star

[obtuse halo]

entity associated with Aberrant Sorceries

and thorns

[frozen olive]

The Blood Star which Thorn sorceries derive from

I just called it the wrong thing, it is actually called the Blood Star

[atomic marsh]

Is this new??

[frozen olive]

Base game

[modest berry]

blood as an overarching catagory thematically is pretty wide, it's life essence that runs inside something its understandable there would be overlap, sap, glintstone, lava even the crucible to some extent as a primordial soup all have thematic crossover

[frozen olive]

The Blood Star was discovered by criminals who had their eyes gouged out with thorns, and they made thorn sorceries from their discovery

The Blood Star is also connected to Red Glintstone via Alberichs set

Red Glintstone being formed from the Blood of sacrifices

[frozen olive]

Most of the god shit just boild down to this though

[real shadow]

Friend of mine has been having a bad time with Messmer and just sent me this:

Beat him and immediately ate his rememberance.
Fuck him and fuck Miyazaki.

Queen shit honestly

[frozen olive]

Is it an outer god, a celestial entity, a god, a tutelary deity, some kind of primordial power, some kind of ancient devil

Who the fuck knows

The game is certainly coy about distinctions

[atomic marsh]

I'm genuinely a little upset

That I did not know about The Blood Star until now somehow

[frozen olive]

It's mentioned in the Briar's of Sin sorcery

[real shadow]

There's a ton of items in the game and each one has some little bit of lore to it so it's easy to miss these things.

[frozen olive]

There's a metric butt load of obscure bullshit mentioned in detail on one random fuck off item

Like the thing earlier with ||Senessax being a Bayle follower|| is confirmed by a fucking pot of all things

[median rock]

it's actually also mentoined in a relatively popular weapon, great stars

but it's much more coy about it

A blood-stained star is an ill omen, a fact not lost upon those against whom this weapon is brought to bear.

[frozen olive]

||From the Red Lightning Pot: The ancient dragons who betrayed their lord to side with a tyrant were known for wielding branching red lightning.||

[frozen olive]

That's what i mean though

[median rock]

yeah i'm agreeing with you, just noting its also in one more place that i konw of

besides just briars of punishment & alberich's set

[frozen olive]

Like they specifically tell you exactly whats up with the Blood Star in the lore text for Briar's of sin and like, nowhere else

Alberichs juat mentions red glintstone

[median rock]

briars of sin is the smaller one, it doesn't mention the blood star

[frozen olive]

Which is tied to aberrant sprcery only because his armor literally mentions thorn sorcery

[frozen olive]

Oh

Well it mentions it on one of the thorn sorceries in detail and basically nowhere else in the game

Everything else is just vague hints

[median rock]

i believe sellen has some other similar info about the nature of glintstone sorcery in general, interestingly

which implies glintstones are not much more than batteries it's just how the energy got there that varies

[frozen olive]

That basically seems to be the case

Excelt of course you can also you know

Become Glintstone

[median rock]

the primeval sorceries came from 'the primeval current', which is something that lusat & azur & presumably other unnamed dudes stared at too hard, and they ended up turning into crystals because of it. sellen is trying to discover that and the same happens

[frozen olive]

If you delve too deep in the Primeval Current

So they seem to be a bit more metaphysical than just magic batteries as well

[median rock]

it's also implied via alberich & the people that use the thorn sorceries that the red glintstone of thorn sorceries is taken from either guilt or the blood of sacrifices or both

[frozen olive]

Alberichs set mentions specifically that Red Glintstone is created through sacrifice

[atomic plinth]

||OH FUCK I'M FIGHTING RADAHN IN HIS PRIME||

[median rock]

yeah, i'm pretty sure some of the descriptions from the items the thorn users + the fire monks in their vicinity have implies guilt is related to the sacrifices. see the self whipping thing

[obtuse halo]

Sorceries are scaled with faith rather than intelligence when wielding this staff which enhances Thorn sorceries in particular.``` Staff of the Guilty too, though I guess it doesn't specify Red.

[modest berry]

ive heard an interpretation that the erdtree is like a microcosm, and a little norse influenced if theres a world tree, the lands between being (midgar) the primeval current is like the hylemxylem flow of cosmic energy in it, glinstone being congealed sap

[median rock]

good luck. it sucks (final boss spoilers in previous message)

[obtuse halo]

it also says it's "similar to" hex magic but presumably isn't hex magic.

[modest berry]

whether i agree with this is ehh but its an interesting take

[frozen olive]

||Bass Boosted Radahn||

[obtuse halo]

(final boss) ||I actually thought the Radahn fight itself was very fair and fun to learn, it's Miquella who sucks to fight :P||

[kind garden]

Yeah

Fax, no printer

[frozen olive]

||I imagine Miq is at least partially piloting Radahn like an Evangelion because i don't think he tries to grab you in phase 1 and he does in Phase 2 to get you into Mind control range of Miq||

[obtuse halo]

||That grab attack kills me. "My husband and I saw you across the bar..."||

[frozen olive]

||Radah using bloodflame could be Miq but Radahn was also just a god tier magician so i think his half dormant soul could just be that goated||

[frozen olive]

Lmao

😂

[modest berry]

||i assumed that was just mogh muscle memory ||

[frozen olive]

||That could also absolutely be it||

||Who fucking knows honestly, Miq reincarnating Radahn in Mohg mans corpse is such a clusterfuck of magic shit that it's never going to be clear unless From tells us for some reason||

||A fucking wizard did it, don't need to think about it too much||

||The grab almost certainly is Miq tho, i can't imagine Radahn doing a bear hug for any other reason mid battle than Miq making him do it for the charm attack||

||Miquella piloting Mohg corpse Radahn the brother-husband like a mech to somehow become even more problematic than Shinji and his mom soul flesh mecha||

Should reiterate that all this is massive final boss spoilers

Do not click any of the spoilered text unless you're done with the dlc

(More final boss spoilers)||Can't say i was expecting Miq to end up being the most problematic royal sibling tho, like godsdamn Miq really was collecting horrific acts like pokémon||

||Miq on the crimes against humanity speedrun||

||Like all of them are bad in some way as far as we know, even my beloved Ranni did a ton of awful shit, but Miquella kinda went to a different level||

[frail sky]

There’s something immensely funny about Zullie looking up fanart and going “wait people like Thiollier?”
https://x.com/ZullieTheWitch/status/1808529799041700279

Zullie (@ZullieTheWitch) on X

Since putting out the facedata, I've looked around a bit for fanart of the DLC NPCs, and I've seen the most of obviously Leda, but also strangely Thiollier has apparently built a bit of a sizable following. Something about a sleepy little guy really draws some types of crowds.

Twitter · Jul 3, 2024, 3:54 PM

[stone cove]

He's a sad sack in a way that makes you want to boost his self esteem

and also he actually STEPS THE FUCK UP

like he actively ||Admits he was wrong, that he fuckedu p and reacted badly, and despite the fact he knows this cant end well for him, he puts his life and beliefs on the line to fight for, and help y ou||

and canonically, it ||Gets him killed, but he goes out a hero stoping a tyrnnical god from comming into existence||

[vale mountain]

[Erdtree spoilers] ||I maintain that Mohg was probably in control of himself when he conspired to kidnap Miquella because if his endgame plan was Radahn all along, based on item descriptions of the Remembrance of a Lord and a God/etc. then he probably did NOT want his sister to rabies-fy Radahn. I am guessing when Miquella became conscious of his abduction was when he chose to manipulate Mohg and enact Plan B of going to the Realm of Shadow.||

[stone cove]

It does confirm one thing we're told, that claiming the great runes drove everyone who took one mad.

[stone cove]

||Except we're explcirtly told that Miq made him do it, iirc||

[vale mountain]

||When do we actually get that, because all I know is that Ansbach just stated Mohg was under his charm||

[real shadow]

https://x.com/affectbitter/status/1808494296699691239

特🖤 (@affectbitter) on X

Rellana

Twitter · Jul 3, 2024, 1:33 PM

[stone cove]

||That's a good question, but i dont think Ansbach has any reason to lie to us. Or be mistaken, given he's portayed as very much the truth by all and any means||

[vale mountain]

||Because why the hell did he choose to do that||

[grave plinth]

||its possible, likely even, that both Malenia and Miquella underestimated Radahn and didn’t anticipate Malenia losing control and releasing the Rot||

[stone cove]

like he even knows well before the player admits it that ||You murdered Mohg. And... doesnt care, he recognizes what went down was two contenders for lordship entered, and one left. Mohg's path was always fraught||

[vale mountain]

Okay so we have the same info and that doesn't contradict what I said

[frozen olive]

Oh for sure

Eveeyone that is

[grave plinth]

||Malenia’s entire image up until the battle of Caelid is being a superhuman swordswoman who doesn’t rely on the Scarlet Rot. ||

[left willow]

[Early DLC Boss Fight]
||gfdi gfdi gfdi gfdi|| I was so close, just flubbed the jump against one (1) ||low-arc attack|| and ate shit

[frozen olive]

EXCEPT ME

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Mentally strongest demigod vs. Mentally weaksst Tarnished of no renown

[frail sky]

I’ve (jokingly) advocated for the frenzied flame enough that that definitely applies to me

[frozen olive]

||In fact she is pretty much stated to hate the rot, and not only that, she is powerful in SPITE of the rot||

[real shadow]

||https://fixupx.com/Nikingply/status/1808530470533279873||

[frozen olive]

||Which is confirmed by her Great Rune, which literally telks us it's only strong because Malenia herself was such a baller even though she was afflicyed by the rot||

[grave plinth]

||yeah. So either she lost herself in the heat of battle, or Miquella charmed her to win “at any costs” not realizing that that would include letting the Aeonia bloom||

[frozen olive]

||Looking at the absolute dearth of horrific shit Miq did i would honestly not put it past him to habe charmed her||

[modest berry]

||yes! short hair rellana i feel some people missed that her ponytail is her sisters hair, ||

[umbral portal]

||Lesbian Haircut||

[grave plinth]

||would explain why Millicent AKA Malenia’s positive personality traits lowkey hates her guts||

[frozen olive]

||The lore implies she had the hots for Messmer actually||

[umbral portal]

||Sorry folks, she's taken||

[grave plinth]

||she’s into brooding noodle men||

[umbral portal]

[frozen olive]

||Her armor mentions she uprooted herself to go chase after Messmer, and her swords mention that they are the only place that moon and fire were ever together||

||Also the carian thrusting shield is kinda just, in Messmers castle||

[grave plinth]

||could it be that Messmer is a better leader to a crew of misfits and weirdos than Miquella is? Signs point to yes||

[umbral portal]

||tbf Messmer actually seems like a good boss, at least by ER standards||

||His troops and whatnot were loyal||

[frozen olive]

||Messmer cannot possibly be worse of a boss than Miquella||

[grave plinth]

||yeah he’d probably have been a prodigy if Marika didn’t deliberately raise him as an attack dog||

[umbral portal]

||I do wonder what his relationship with Melina was, assuming they had one||

[glossy delta]

I sincerely doubt either knows the other exists

[frozen olive]

||Miquella mind controlled all their subordinates and when the mind control broke their star hire and right hand started fucking murdering all the others out of manic paranoia||

[umbral portal]

||Also iirc Messmer and Melina are the oldest of the Demigods, right?||

||Or do I misunderstand||

[frozen olive]

That is the implication yes

[vale mountain]

The most consistent sequence of events as far as we know:

||Miquella cocoons himself at the base of the Haligtree to try to ascend to godhead, partly hoping to create a solution to his sister's "curse"
-> Mohg kidnaps Miquella in his metamorphosis from the roots of the Haligtree, takes him to the Mohgwyn Palace beneath Caelid
-> Malenia discovers this and marches with the Cleanrot Knights and the Haligtree's armies to Caelid, PRESUMABLY (and this is the part where motives are most unclear) to recover him from the underground, but Radahn interprets a giant army crossing the Lands Between as an invasion and fights them
-> Radahn forces Malenia to remove the golden needle given to her by Miquella to stave the Rot, and the Aeonia blooms, giving Radahn super rabies
-> Miquella now needs someone to kill Radahn to free his soul so he can be revived without the Rot, thus requiring Mohg die||

There is of course the alternative that the ||War between Malenia and Radahn was prompted by something else and that because Malenia gave Radahn rabies Miquella decided that he had to hypnotize Mohg to kidnap him in order to open the way to the Scadutree|| but, and this is me personally, I really do not like this one because it ||completely atomizes anything interesting about Mohg's own agency||

Sorry that was a wall

[frozen olive]

||Messmer absolutely has to have bedn Marikas firstborn imo||

[umbral portal]

||On that topic. Is there a particular reason Snakes are the enemy of the Golden Order, or are they just Like That||

[frozen olive]

We don't know

[glossy delta]

||To her meager credit, of the three people she attempts to murder two of them totally do want to take down Miq||
||She's a somewhat canny bloodthirsty inquisitor||

[vale mountain]

I like the hint that ||Leda just really wants an excuse to murder people||

[umbral portal]

||"Who can I justify killing"||

[grave plinth]

||Messmer might actually be Radahn’s age or younger given his relationship with Gaius||

[frozen olive]

|| I'm not giving her any credit for that she's literally just an insane fanatic||

[glossy delta]

||Its actually two for two if you dont incite her to attack the hornsent||

[vale mountain]

||is it that they were all simultaneous students of that star lord or that the star lord taught each one separately||

[grave plinth]

||she’s pretty much right for the wrong reasons though||

[frozen olive]

||Her armor literally implies she murdered the other oathseekers for not being zealous enough||

[umbral portal]

||Debatably Mohg is a better leader than Miquella, since Ansbach is pretty well adjusted and reasonable, all.thinge considered||

||and was like, genuinely loyal. He tried to kill Miquella to free Mohg||

[frozen olive]

||Honestly who is 't a better leader than Miq||

[grave plinth]

||yeah, like i get Mohg’s platform and i can see why people would sign on with it.||

[grave plinth]

||Godrick maybe?||

[frozen olive]

||probably just Godrick cause he sucks absolute shit forever||

[umbral portal]

||Rykard and Godrick, debatably||

||though Rykard is weird because I'm unsure how much of him remains||

[vale mountain]

||Rykard is surrounded by people who love him||

[umbral portal]

True

[grave plinth]

||even the Knights who turned on him have nothing but glowing reviews of pre-snake Rykard||

[umbral portal]

||Everyone hates Godrick at worst, and doesn't respect him at best||

[frozen olive]

||Idk bout Rykard, he has a bunch of loyal psychos, a wife, a maybe his but certainly hers kid, a bunch of horrid serpent men abominations||

||Godrick was always a pathetic soggy loser and Miq is just a crimes against himanity girlboss||

[umbral portal]

||Radahn, Malenia, and Messmer seem to have invited the most loyalty out of their soldiers||

[frozen olive]

||All the other demigods including Ranni and Godwyn had genuinely incredibly loyal followers at some point or another||

||Miquella has Leda who is like, the Yandere knight||

||And then basically just a lot of mind control bullshit||

[modest berry]

||im not sure if everybody at the halig tree is whammied and they seem quite loyal||

[umbral portal]

||Also off topic, but unless I misunderstand Ymir basically confirms that the Landa Between and whatnot are part of an actual planet, not a weird fantasy plane of sorts||

[frozen olive]

||Godrick has nobody but again he's the biggest loser in all of the Lands Between and the Shadow Lands so that tracks||

[stone cove]

One bit of this timeline is wrong: ||Miquella was in caelid and healed Freyja post the aeonia going off.||

[frail sky]

||Presumably the rest of the needle knights were loyal before the purge||

[frozen olive]

||One can hope, not that it did them any good considering what Leda did||

[stone cove]

And that being wrong massively warps the rest of your asusmptions @vale mountain

[frozen olive]

||But yeah i'd rate Miq right next to Godrick as a boss right down in the 'abysmal dogshit' tier||

[stone cove]

Honestly, the impression i get of ||Miquella|| is that he had a real child like "Start a scheme and never finish it" thing going on. It's also interesting to see that his Great Rune ||Was connected to charming - but also that seems to be something iherent to him. So his great rune turobcharged that part of him, and then his being a deity also turbo charged that||

[frail sky]

||I'd like to think that while everyone else was just charmed for obedience, Leda's charm was just so she'd stop killing useful pawns||

[stone cove]

Thoguh, also, the great runes in general seem to have taken whoever the person was and just made them More That.

Radahns overwhelming strength got turbocahrged (With more FP/Hp/Stamina), Godrick's grafting got charged further

(at least, that's what i take his great rune giving 40 free stats as representing, his grafting anything he could into himself)

PICK A LANE GODRICK

[grave plinth]

So, here's my read

||Miquella sends Malenia to kill Radahn so he can reforge his corpse and captured soul as a Promised Consort, expecting his prodigy genius swordswoman sister to be able to beat him and return to the Haligtree with his new Lord in tow. Except she not only fails, she fails in the most catastrophic way by infecting a still-living Radahn with super-leprosy and wiping out half of the Haligtree's army. Miquella, having the emotional intelligence of a child unaccustomed to any failure, immediately panics and improvises a plot to use Mohg as a proxy, charming him into kidnapping him in a harebrained attempt to have his cake and eat it too, while he projects his consciousness into the Land of Shadow, leaving the Haligtree to crumble into decay while Cleanrot Knight Finlay hauls Malenia's comatose body across the continent, completely unaware of Miquella's departure and possible unaware of Radahn's survival. Malenia awakens at the Haligtree, unaware of what happened to Miquella and missing entire pieces of her personality, falls into a catatonic fugue, while Miquella, isolated from any loved ones or advisors who could potentially check his spiral into megalomania, gradually gets worse and worse as he excises the parts of himself that keep him grounded and capable of feeling guilt||

[stone cove]

Godrick: No! Mutli-graft drifitng. intial d theme plays

[vale mountain]

||Was he? Or did he encounter Freyja elsewhere/after? Because what I remember is that she was "touched by Rot" and that contact with Miquella either halted it or healed it||

[frozen olive]

That sounds like a reasonable take to me

[vale mountain]

||Why did Radahn have to die?||

[modest berry]

||i feel like part of this was radahn refused to stop holding the stars in order to protect selia and there was a seperate plan with the eclipse miqella had to put down godwyn which couldnt happen with the cosmos halted this was on top of any promised consort stuff so he needed to be stopped however hes too built different, and it didnt even stop himm||

[grave plinth]

||Radahn is Miquella's preferred choice for a Lord to anchor his soon-to-be divine form to the mundane world. A living god needs a Lord to be their martial proxy and emissary to the banal, which is why Marika needed Godfrey and later Radagon (and potentially you, the Tarnished). Its possible that there were better candidates than Radahn, but Miquella was also compromised in his decision making by the fact that Radahn spurned his advances in favor of supporting Ranni||

[vale mountain]

hold on where do you get that last bit

[stone cove]

I'm pretty certain she explcitly says it happened in caelid after she was abaodned there post shit goign to town

i need to doubel check

[grave plinth]

||I believe there's an item description that says Radahn's holding back the stars was meant to prevent the Greater Will from erasing Ranni's Destiny. Essentially locking down fate before the Greater Will can||

[real shadow]

||Melina I think might be the youngest of them; she says she was born at the foot of the Erdtree and believes her mother to be inside it, meaning she was likely born post-Shattering (and whose body burned some time after that). Messmer is likely Marika's first child, so he's probably the oldest.||

[modest berry]

||ok so messmer seems the oldest but melina honestly seems the youngest, and she believes she was born from the erdtree, so could she have been stillborn or something from gloam eyed queen influence or dead from being burned at some other point, and then reborn/ reincarnated through the erdtree i thiink they are still twins ||

[grave plinth]

||Regardless, for whatever reason, Radahn did not accept Miquella's advances, so the child godling has a freakout because his entire perfect outcome hinges on having his beloved oni-chan Radahn as his consort||

[frail sky]

||You didn't have to phrase it like that but I'm glad you did||

[stone cove]

@vale mountain COnfirmed, ||Miq was in caelid|| Ask about the damage to her armor

Freyja, when asked about damage to her armor
Long ago, I was stricken by scarlet rot in the Swamp of Aeonia. Immobile, feverish, and in great pain, I was entirely resigned to death.
I was left behind, and only Kindly Miquella was enough to seek me out. My wound was swollen and festering — exuding a most pungent odour — and yet he drained the poison from it.
...Despite my wretched visage. Now, I consider this wound my compass.

[fleet bronze]

||She could also have been born coterminously with Marika's disappearance, like Melina is born and Marika immediately goes in and seals the tree afterward||

[vale mountain]

New question.

||Why was he in Caelid.||

[stone cove]

Re: Melina - so my bet is that she's earlier than that, and she was used to seal the Gloam-Eyed Queen

[stone cove]

||To get his consort? That seems the obvious answer.||

[real shadow]

||I don't think they're twins. I think Marika spawned Melina as a last-ditch effort to get her free from the Erdtree, since she's one of only two to have the power of flame capable enough of burning the Erdtree--the other being Messmer, who was stuck in the Land of Shadows and presumably she couldn't reach him.||

[modest berry]

|| he could have come to her not physiically but in a dreamlike astral projection sleep like trina style he didnt have to be there physically with how he operates i assume|| pretty much everybody can astral project in elden ring honestly

[vale mountain]

||Yes this is what I assume given the state of his actual physical body||

[frozen olive]

Morgott and Mohg certainly can

[grave plinth]

||The Haligtree project is based on giving all the misfit outcasts in the Lands Between a new Cosmic Paradigm, a perfect paradise where their dreams are fulfilled. For Miquella, himself an outcast born with the unchanging body of a child, that perfect paradise dream involves having Big Bro Radahn being there as his Consort. He wants his followers to have their dream fulfilled but he's also unwilling to compromise on his own dream to get it, which is why he lets them fall into despair as Elphael slowly falls apart in his absence because he reasons he can "fix it" once he gets back with his Promised Consort||

[frozen olive]

Omen twins be like "doing this fight via zoom call 💅"