I feel like there should be a thread for this (or at least I'd like there to be one) so I can infodump in peace discuss the game in general or possibly even set up a game.
#Endless Legend
earnest bough
earnest spoke
me when the legend is endless
torn torrent
I have been doing a playthrough of the nomads and it's been fun
Though I have no idea what the path to a victory condition looks like for me
earnest bough
ANYwyy I recently started a game to get back into things, but I decided to play Mykara (i.e. one of the single city factions) so that's not representative? But I got a little island by the south pole with nobody else on it, so that was neat. And, also, I managed to leave the island without researching boats (though I did research them... just haven't used them yet) due to either spotting temples from across the water, spotting watchtowers from across the water and using those, or using the Mykara's "see where the Urken is for free" thing to spot a temple that way, and then making various tunnels off my island. Which is very funny. Side note! Getting watchtower tech for Mykara is really, really good, even though it seems like you're paying for roads which you wouldn't normally care about as much.
earnest spoke
I tried enough of the game that I figure all the DLC for 15 bucks was worth
so I've been going through a game with the Kapaku
funny little guys
earnest bough
Kapaku are fun! I like everything about their plot. Also everything about their core mechanic makes it seem like they'd be very complicated, and they're just... not.
earnest spoke
No, not really
It's kinda just 'you get two real good regions and have to just terraform others as you expand'
The terraforming does get pricy early, though!
torn torrent
My first attempt, I played the tree druids and started in a region with no trees and barely any food production
earnest spoke
I can!
earnest spoke
https://community.amplitude-studios.com/amplitude-studios/endless-legend/forums/...
I have many talents
I'm impressed by how strong the vibes are in the faction lineup
earnest bough
Yeah, they're all really neat. The one that made the least impact on me by far is the Wild Walkers, honestly.
earnest spoke
The wild walkers and to some extent the spacers and vaulters aren't much yeah
But then you get like 3-4 'Oh Rad' civs
Usually you only get 1-2 of those!
And the DLC ones are all pretty knockout neat too
earnest bough
I mean, the vaulters are humans from another planet who live in underground citadels and fulfil most dwarf tropes, and their underground citadels are also spaceships.
earnest spoke
That's true
earnest bough
and mechanically they do some cool things... they can teleport into their own cities, hunker down through winter, and do the whole "sacred resource" thing. Wild Walkers... uh... like forests?
they can tell if armies are in/near their borders, and I know nothing else about them, really.
I think the issue is that wild walkers are entirely unsurprising.
torn torrent
Oh, question
Is there a difference between the vaulters and the mezari?
earnest bough
No. The mezari are just an alternate skin from the vaulters, representing what they were like after first landing on Auriga.
And I don't even know if it's an alternate skin for their units, or just the diplomacy portrait.
sharp shadow
Their units are all different as well I believe
At the very least their portraits are
earnest bough
Mechanically, I know they're the exact same.
torn torrent
Dumb question: how do I propose peace with another empire?
sharp shadow
Dumb question: how do I propose peace with another empire?
You actually need a technology to unlock that option
Same thing with alliances
I think treaties are in era 3 and alliances are era 4?
sharp shadow
You'll find it if you look at the bottom section of the pie
....I don't have their names memorized either
peace treaties are unlocked with the technology "Diplomat's manse" according to the wiki @torn torrent
torn torrent
ty
sharp shadow
Furthermore, alliances are unlocked with "Hospitality den"
earnest spoke
Cultists are interesting
Am I reading it right in that they can just kinda
yoink minor factions as they please?
earnest bough
Yes.
Kind of. It's not free, and there's some strings attached, but in general? Yes.
That's their schtick. They only have one city, but they can use minor factions to project force across the map.
cinder fern
Cultists are known for being lategame terrors
in an MP setting you'd typically see people trying to gang up on them to take them out early. Morgawr work the same way; they're basically sea Cultists
earnest bough
Morgawr are just very strong in general because sea forts are very strong.
cinder fern
I'm personally a big fan of the Forgotten, as a mechanical and thematic counterpoint to the Vaulters
Disdainful of the scientific process, they appreciate its results
is a hell of a line, given its context
It's strongly implied that the Forgotten are the few successful iterations of the Vaulters' experiments in winter survival bioscience
which not only explains their disdain for science but also underpins their MO: to let the Vaulters build up shiny, secure cities... then sneak in, boot the Vaulters out into the cold, and lock the gates behind them
earnest bough
I think it's just outright stated in their opening cutscene.
cinder fern
"Banished by our kin," it says, and it features what looks like a vault door, but it doesn't say it's the Vaulters outright
past saddle
Everybody loves the forgotten haha. I think it’s because they’re super sick looking
earnest bough
"Banished by our kin," it says, and it features what looks like a vault door, bu...
Fair enough. ...although I'm pretty sure that's a vaulter symbol on the door. (or possibly a Mezari symbol?)
yeah that symbol is upside-down on the Vaulter leader's head.
yeah it's on both vaulter and mezari stuff with no clear difference between the two.
earnest spoke
Hmm alright, after trying a cultist game I can confirm that they are Interesting ™️
But wow whatever it is that the mushrooms are doing to remotely sap resources and take over minors is a pain in the ass
I can't rizz up a village if it's covered in mold
I'm also curious what, if anything, I can do to improve sheer unit Movement logistics
earnest bough
Movement is tricky. The mushrooms can just... enfugify anything they know about at any distance. Which seems OP, but it's slow and can be removed I'm pretty sure. They can use fugal ruins as tunnels, though.
earnest spoke
I couldn't figure out how to remove it if I didn't own the region
And, well, cultists
cinder fern
I'm also curious what, if anything, I can do to improve sheer unit Movement logi...
ranged hero left side branch talent, movement trinkets
earnest bough
I... think you can pillage them? Do you have to research pillaging to do it at all?
floral loom
Is there a good guide for new players floating around because I've never gotten very far in an Endless game
earnest bough
not that I know of specifically 🙃 I watched a good number of SB's videos? They're playthroughs, not guides, though.
cinder fern
I'm also curious what, if anything, I can do to improve sheer unit Movement logi...
OH, extra movement trick btw, super impactful in the early game:
Queue a settler build without a movement trinket, then alter the build to include a movement trinket. Retrofit the trinket onto the settler once it finishes building.
floral loom
That might be a useful reference if it has commentary, I'd be interested both in what are good milestones for timing for research progress and also what effective armies look like
cinder fern
OH, extra movement trick btw, super impactful in the early game:
Queue a settle...
In this way, you basically trade some dust for an extra turn of the settler existing, which translates into an extra turn of the city existing
cinder fern
That might be a useful reference if it has commentary, I'd be interested both in...
Any particular faction look interesting to you? An effective army can vary wildly, and often what's most important is picking fights in terrain suited to your army
floral loom
Any particular faction look interesting to you? An effective army can vary wildl...
Vaulters seem cool
cinder fern
For Vaulters: you can almost always skip their cav unit, and generally their tank unit is skippable, too, especially if you can find a beefy minor faction unit
Glassteel is king for making sure you have the initiative to not get melee-locked; armies of Marines only can do just fine
If you see Silics as a Vaulter, they are your number one priority for assimilation, both for giving a tanky melee front line and for their strategic resource boost
floral loom
Is skipping the units a thing because they're inefficient to build or because minor factions fill the role better?
cinder fern
Skipping your own units means spending those research points elsewhere, which is great
Research gets more expensive per tech
The cavalry can be prioritized in very specific match-ups: Necrophage and Broken Lords, for murdering their backline supports
I would worry less about raw research speed and more about ensuring that you prioritize tech with immediate near-term returns over those with later payoffs - researching a building when you're building units has less of a point than researching unit upgrades
Don't sleep on the techs that let you stack +2 units per stack, though
floral loom
My frame of reference is Civilization 4 and SMAC so I'm a bit out of practice and outside of trying to kinda make a couple of production cities and a couple of econ cities it's all kind of winging it right now
cinder fern
ah yeah, generally you want to aim for A dust city and A science city after your production base is up
you generally want a city out on turn 20, 40, and 60, and then after that it's based on circumstances
and you want to buy empire plans BEFORE those cities go down, to save influence cost
floral loom
Oh that makes sense
cinder fern
as with any 4X, opening moves are super important; I'd always recommend:
- immediately shifting population to production, and making a Founder's Memorial
- research Mill Foundry first, and make it after Founder's Memorial
- make a settler after Mill Foundry
note: making a settler immediately kills food production and cuts you down by one pop, so there's a bit of micro-optimization to be had in keeping a pop in food instead of production IF it doesn't lose you any turns on the Foundry but DOES get a population unit a turn faster
sharp shadow
you also need to always make sure your city is built on a good amount of food and industry so it can grow quickly
or well...
I'm also new, but that alone is basically winning my current MP game
cinder fern
yeah, industry is king in the early game; it shifts to dust as time goes on
sharp shadow
am playing roving clans
cinder fern
After the settler is built, you may actually be better off skipping the food building if winter is imminent, as it does very little for you in winter
sharp shadow
everyone is upset I can pop out a city with basically every upgrade built on it every 10 turns or so
floral loom
yeah, industry is king in the early game; it shifts to dust as time goes on
Is it a case where buying production with dust gets more efficient late game?
cinder fern
yes, there's even a tech that cuts buyout cost
cinder fern
dust is also great for immediately buying out the tier 1 flat-value FIDSI buildings in new settlements
cinder fern
Is skipping the units a thing because they're inefficient to build or because mi...
also, Titans are pretty cool and all, and it's not that minor factions fill the role better, but really all you need once your Marines have Holy Resource-boosted equipment is to have a front line that lasts long enough to buy time
don't miss that the stat boosts off the Holy Resource are increased when you have a resource designated, thanks to the Technolover trait
Marines are murder machines, they just need positioning and time to work, and they benefit from combat micro
super important combat keybind the game doesn't advertise: after right-clicking to pick a position, you can Ctrl+right click to designate a unit to target from that position
floral loom
Is there a good way to screen them from getting dived?
cinder fern
the 'basic' way is, of course, other units. but there's a lot to be said for picking terrain and taking advantage of forests
Forests cost two movement points, so they're a boon for ranged units. Take advantage of rivers, mountains, ledges, etc.
Also don't miss the effect of morale: +15% attack and defense for every adjacent allied unit
You can often afford to get dived if you're all clustered in forest, especially if you're on the edge of a forest so that enemies are forced to stand in the open
floral loom
Oh that's a big deal for clumps yeah
cinder fern
this is a missed opportunity
the ideal would be to have the forward unit sitting in forest, so your side gets the defensive bonuses, and is the only unit that can be attacked:
also take note of the stances:
these define two things:
- default behaviour each turn
- the behaviour the AI employs if its specific orders cannot be executed
this means, for instance, that if you manually order a unit to retreat, and it can, its aggressive stance doesn't matter... but the order it defaults to next turn will still be aggressive
I find it easiest to keep everything on 'hold position' and then issue orders manually, which does not prevent you from issuing an order to move and then shoot
floral loom
Yeah that kinda tracks with my Dawn of War experience
cinder fern
also don't miss that you can preview the battlefield and deployment regions by holding right-click over the targeted enemy army:
cinder fern
I find it easiest to keep everything on 'hold position' and then issue orders ma...
err, rather - I start on offensive/manual, and then switch to 'hold position' once everything is in place
earnest bough
...I'm just good enough at this game to be acutely aware of how much better I could be.
sharp shadow
Good heavens
The one thing I am a bit afraid of in an MP game here is uh.. the experience barrier for us newbies
It might be worth setting in place a sort of soft "hey, please don't kill eachother until x turn" policy for our first couple games?
earnest bough
I mean, I know I'll play slow just because I always play games like that (I'm not saying this is a good idea, mind you), but... yeah, there'll be a skill gap.
cinder fern
you can get allied victories, fwiw
but yeah, that's a good call
tbh I probably won't partake; when I've played with newbies I've generally just done things like snowball ahead as the Forgotten and then quietly play mindgames with my spy knowledge without actually ever planning to attack anyone
"hmm, that sure is a big stack of units" and then just let everyone sweat
earnest spoke
I feel like my biggest stopgap in the singleplayer games i've fucked about with is like
just waiting for my military to actually Get anywhere
especially with winter
It's a slow-paced game but that makes me unsure if I am being too slow or not
sharp shadow
I'd say it starts really, really slow and then once you get a foothold it ramps up extremely quickly
At least in my limited experience
cinder fern
Movement trinkets help a bunch, but that requires unit equipment micro
It can be hard to form that habit
I try to retrofit the trinkets onto my starter units ASAP
sharp shadow
Indeeby
earnest bough
I ended up just assimilating the Nidja and using them a lot.
sharp shadow
That's the birds?
earnest bough
yeah, with the arpuja (harpies)
sharp shadow
Yay I'm remembering things!
I've personally been a big fan of the Dwarf guys and the Daemons
...now that I can afford to pay for large amounts of the latter
earnest bough
the demons (kazanji) are, in my opinion, maybe the best minor faction. Or maybe slightly second to the Haunts. Great for the influence-thirsty Cultists, at least.
sharp shadow
Oo
I do have haunts in my territory
Up until recently I always considered them to be slightly too expensive compared to Kazanji (we're roving clans btw) but I can probably afford them with my ridiculous midgame income now
earnest bough
They're flying, they have good AoE, and their assimilation bonus grants science which is always good.
copper eagle
I'm a research fiend so haunts are generally my top pick
Haunt units are monsters, and get 2h swords, so they can absolutely delete infantry, iirc kazanji get axes for bonus damage against archers so they're maybe more useful if you need to counter that specifically
Besides that, I'm also a big fan of Eyeless Ones, +5% happiness for no real upkeep is nothing to sneeze at and they're an extremely nice bit of sustain for factions that usually don't have that already. Honorable mention goes to Sisters of Mercy: A tier if you have to fight Necrophages, basically useless otherwise
earnest spoke
I've played this game way too much over the last 2 days and I'm still not any good lmao
I think I'm balancing my resources wrong or Something because the AI always gets a leg up on me
Having fun with it though!
past saddle
Maybe we can start a newbies game or something so the people who just joined in or have only some clue as to how to play can figure stuff out? Could be useful
sharp shadow
we've already managed to get a second 5 player game going 
earnest spoke
Jeez!
earnest bough
Oh wow.
I... am a bit too good to count as a beginner, probably, but not good enough for the "real" games, and I haven't played in forever except for going part of the way through a mykara game just recently and then life distracting me.
azure rune
I used to be pretty solid in single player at maximum difficulty, but that never stacks up against multiplayer and I never quite got the hang of the salt-the-earth shimmy that I think was supposed to be very useful.
sharp shadow
we've already managed to get a second 5 player game going <:sweating:50365617223...
I've got no clue if this one will actually manage to hit the finish line though
Oh yeah!
I managed to win my first multiplayer game!
Twas an economic victory and it basically only happened because I convinced everyone to leave me alone
We're very proud of ourselves!
But.. we're playing with the same people again and I'm starting to think I've got a massive target painted on my back lol
full raven
Hello!
I am trying to download the community patch and I get a 404?
Oh nvm I'm able to download the full thing just not the installer
Any recommendations on mods besides the community patch?
sharp shadow
Any recommendations on mods besides the community patch?
I'd say just play with the community patch for now before adding anything in
sharp shadow
Hmmm
Do we usually play multiplayer games on fast mode you think?
Or is the slower pace of normal best for all the new people?
earnest spoke
Presuming that multiplayer in this game works on the 'everybody submits their turn, then it rolls out' logic, fast is probably the way to go
Since it seems games can hit 200+ turns?
sharp shadow
Yeah my first game ended on turn 227
I think the turn timer for fast is 150 turns, and your stuff gets built way faster
earnest spoke
Yeah
sharp shadow
It's just that in that span of time, there isn't nearly as much room for a screw-up
Which has me pondering
It's probably fine though?
We don't want to take up too much time
sharp shadow
Suppose we'll get there when we get there then
earnest bough
The issue with Fast is that it makes winters come sooner, which means that it's much harder to explore a reasonably-sized map without your units running into winter upkeep costs and making you turn around and shelter them before you lose all your Dust. So finding other players, or stuff to interact with, is much trickier.
sharp shadow
Yeaah
You're basically sacrificing how much of the map you'll likely see for how much time the game takes
...among other things
There's a much bigger er.. "opportunity cost" as well
earnest bough
I tried fast games in the past and I felt like it was really difficult to interact with other players because it was so hard to even meet them.
sharp shadow
Hmmm
We'll probably play a normal game in that case
If what you describe is true then there's not much point in playing multiplayer if you can't really meet many people
earnest bough
...I probably want to play someone who does not demand an answer or annoy people by existing (meaning not Cultists, Mykara, or Kapaku) but they're all fun... looking at Forgotten? I played part of a multiplayer game with them once but then it got cut off by real world stuff. I'm fine with being the last to call dibs, though (or one of the last... even though I'm pretty sure you can have multiple players of the same faction but shush).
past saddle
I suppose I wouldn’t mind playing a normal faction, vaulters or wild walkers or some such. Although the idea of totally ignoring food costs for growth is kinda fun. Broken Lords are very cool
azure rune
I like Broken Lords and I've had a lot of success with them in single player, but I always go very wide with them once I can because you can slam out large cities and really paint the map partyway through the game, and I don't know if I could micro that on any sort of turn time limit.
Mykara looks neat, but I'd have to play it first because one-city factions are odd and I'm terrible with the Cultists.
sharp shadow
I really like the look of the Allayi or Morgawr at the moment, though I'm not too picky either
azure rune
Actually I just love the Broken Lords, if I can get in on any multiplayer game that does happen here and no one else is playing them I'll probably go for the dust-eaters, maybe play a singleplayer game beforehand to figure out my micro.
sharp shadow
Do be aware that they're considered quite powerful (even on the community patch) so you might have a target on your back
I can't speak for everyone though
azure rune
Ah, rip. We'll see how I'm feeling when/if we do get a game started, I may just go for some of the humans if I don't feel like sweating. (Either way I will probably lose to someone else doing an economic victory, even against the AI I've lost to that an embarrassing number of times (like twice, but still).)
sharp shadow
go for broken lords of that's what you want to do! We just wanted you to be aware of the possible risk
But like
You're not a faction that annoys people early game so you should be fine for a while
past saddle
I would think the cultists weren’t either but being unable to pacify a region because of culty cult and his funky bunch does sound annoying
sharp shadow
It is indeed
Though it's probably slightly better than having it spawn roaming armies
azure rune
Fair enough, and yeah the broken lords are pretty chill for most of the game. I think the only things I’ve found worth war early are like gold and dye, maybe. And then of course dustwater, but that’s later.
sharp shadow
When it's in your own territory though... Hella annoying
azure rune
Also, depending on what speed we’re playing at, as the broken lords I can write out royal/knightly decrees in chat, and that is a clear benefit.
past saddle
Haha I do like using overt religious scripture in chat too
cinder fern
It is indeed
Though it's probably slightly better than having it spawn roaming a...
Honestly, roaming armies are kind of nice as far as exp gain opportunities
Though if you have Necrophage on the map, you're best off going scorched-earth and destroying villages between you and them ASAP
Some of it comes down to the matchup between your faction and the minor faction in question; Kazanji in particular are super strong and a big threat, but there's less harm in letting an Eyeless One village sit there and pump out armies to farm xp from
cinder fern
Though if you have Necrophage on the map, you're best off going scorched-earth a...
(Necrophage get food stockpiles and possibly free zombie chaff by killing units)
(So it's imperative that you don't just leave unpacified villages up between you and them if you can help it)
past saddle
Oh Kazaji. you're the best conversion opportunity
azure rune
Apparently there is no longer a cap on the size of cities after all the DLCs, if there ever was :3
Always remember to stay silly and to keep clicking that "buy 1 pop" button
copper eagle
I think the "cap" has always just been the size of the region itself, and more relevant to most factions, your ability to grow and sustain your population. Also managing the happiness hit from more districts and such
azure rune
Yeah, it looks like you can just be your authentic self and by "your authentic self" I mean "in possession of three size 50+ megacities and eight or so 30+ cities"
copper eagle
Broken Lords can very quickly go from a gradual increase to a straight line like that. A straight upwards line
azure rune
I could have gone harder, but I was also trying to win via science and so I did that before I started to fully fill any of my regions. I was also at war on a few fronts, but war seems to be just tossing a guardian or two and some supporting troops at another nation these days.
Maybe next time. Unfortunately giant cities are very juicy and in any real multiplayer setting it's just asking for someone to charge in and snatch one unless I put as much effort into military as I did into money and science.
earnest bough
Also districts can only be upgraded once (unless you're the Cultists) so that's not a limit but it is a sort of diminishing returns thing? Kind of? Not really?
azure rune
Also districts can only be upgraded once (unless you're the Cultists) so that's ...
Generally yeah, buthere are a couple of things that give bonuses from level 2 districts (eg. climatology guild was giving ~400 science at 15 per l2 district), and I got every one of those I could. It would be even spicier on Cultists for sure, but I can't figure out how to play those guys to save my life.
earnest bough
I know that they get a bonus for being level 2 but I don't think they can be level 2 unless you're cultist... though I definitely might be wrong.
cinder fern
level 3's the one exclusive to Cultists
torn torrent
Uh perhaps
earnest bough
I'd be down to sometime!
sharp shadow
I think we said we were playing on the community balance patch, right?
I've got a couple people interested in a game as well
So mayhaps this could become a thing
earnest bough
Community Balance Patch would be ideal imo
past saddle
I’d be very happy to myself!
copper eagle
I'm potentially interested, though of course cross-atlantic scheduling is a nightmare
earnest bough
Dust is used as currency in-universe, right? How is it exchanged? Is it made into various coins somehow? Or are coins just made on a Dust standard backing their value, and serve as promissory tokens? Or is that what the Empire Mint technology is?
Because every nation wants Dust, since unlike gold it's actually extremely useful, to varying extents (the Mezari probably would be fine with a dust-backed currency they never convert for the base materials, but if you trade for Dust with the Broken Lords, they definitely want the actual raw Dust).
Or is it traded in bags of the raw stuff, usually? Are there unscrupulous operators who mix in sawdust or sand to counterfeit Dust for simpler transactions? Cacao nibs were counterfeited when used as currency, so I wouldn't be surprised if "dust getting cut with other substances" was a not-uncommon problem.
sharp shadow
Dust is used as currency in-universe, right? How is it exchanged? Is it made i...
In terms of currency I'd have to assume it's metal coins infused with the stuff
Though civilisations without the coins probably just carry around bags of the sand it's so often found in
earnest bough
for some reason I thought there was art of it when there isn't. I wonder how hard it is to counterfeit? Probably really hard, if there's some way of directly testing the Dust.
past saddle
Love the cultists baby, can’t not love the cultists. Just won my first game the other day, against the AI, but even so.
Was very fun
sharp shadow
I am living the luxury of having won every game I've played against other people, but I still don't think I know what I'm doing lmao
past saddle
It'd be fun to all learn together!
azure rune
for some reason I thought there was art of it when there isn't. I wonder how ha...
There's some art of the coins, and (presumably) the process of minting them, though imperial coinage and empire mint, which inclines me towards thinking that coins are some form of compressed dust, that glow slightly and perhaps "shed" dust.
fallen granite
i wish to bite the Dust Coin
copper eagle
You should play Broken Lords then
fallen granite
perhaps
fallen granite
i accidentally killed the Morgawr while trying to bully them into removing the Black Spot >.>
this has upset the drakken and now they don't want to be at peace with me anymore D:
i was gonna ally with them so we could win together, i love the cool dragon boys
fallen granite
dang the Quest Victory is actually kinda hard huh
specifically it seems like it's going to be hard to get a Quest Victory without accidentally fulfilling some other wincon first
fallen granite
i feel like unlocking military units shouldn't contribute to era progression
it just doesn't feel like a meaningful step forward in my strategy the way almost any other technology does
fallen granite
really wish these villages would stop giving me quests to demonstrate how "peaceful" i am in ways that would force me to break established peace and alliance treaties...
fallen granite
wonder victory rrraaahhh
elves build good
...i forgot how disappointing the end screen is lmao
fallen granite
why do the urkans keep demanding the rarest luxury resource of each era 
fallen granite
i'm not a huge fan of high-tier weapon and armor techs being exclusively quest rewards