Hunter the Parenting Pit

[split raven]

so what do we think ||Matilda||'s ||auspice/tribe|| are? (assuming ||Homid for breed||)

[warped portal]

I want the music from when ||Matilda transforms||

[radiant drum]

Marckus: Glad the Arcanum's stil not depraved enough to spy on people on the bog.
Brock: Oh we've got one on the bog.
[Camera cuts to an actual bog.]
S-tier bit.

[graceful jay]

||Tribe is revealed in the episode if you're keen-eyed||

[simple hill]

I mean its possible that ||a ghoul can be in the arcanum, just one that isn't really receiving orders from the Regent considering the Tremere chantry of Norfolk appears poorly managed and thus not really a 'player' of tonight's events||

[short cradle]

||Poor Amanda, she finds out that the supernatural exists, gets locked in her workplace all night, gets fried by a polygraph, finds out her coworker is a damn werewolf spy, and then starts blasting her||

[weak phoenix]

||Amanda gonna have to go through so many NDA's.||

||And also potentially another interrogation if the coalition decides to treat this as a five alarm fire.||

Also, minor question.

The beach photos.

||Is that Ephrael Stern and Kryptman?||

[split raven]

stuff ive noticed
||her arm turns black and kind of wood-y before the moth thing, there might be a glyph on the moth wings but its hard to be sure, and i think that might be a falcon on her shoulder before she steps sideways||
||black wood-y arm im not sure, if that is a glyph its just like a single claw mark which is like maybe an auspice, and that might just be a bird spirit she's bound as a totem; a falcon would silver fang but she doesn't give me 'ancestral leaders of garou society' vibes||

also re-watching the fight to look for stuff was cool because that fight kicks so much ass

[graceful jay]

Half-yes half-no

[weak phoenix]

_>

Okay then.

[split raven]

like ||[primal terror] and [delirious screaming] are funny subtitles but simultaneously absolutely perfect reactions to seeing a garou, and the fact that D and Remold were obviously scared but keeping it together was 🤌 and then the action once it got going was so sick||

its been said but it bares repeating

https://tenor.com/pNXicgWHEJQ.gif

[weak phoenix]

||So, the only person to die with the whole werewolf was just Fatigue, right?||

||And nobody else? Like the only harm everyone else has gotten is either mental trauma, delirium shock, or claws from the Were. Crap, forgot about Git also dealing with the pipe forced in.||

[graceful jay]

[weak phoenix]

_>

[short cradle]

||git got fucked up in this chapter||

[weak phoenix]

||Poor Git. First his mates get attacked by a werewolf then he gets attacked too.||

||Loses an arm and gets a pipe stuck in his chest.||

||Well, at least the American Norfolk are doing okay.||

[ancient crescent]

||Also Lady Malys in one of the portraits||

[graceful jay]

She was in Ep 4

That's not spoilers

[compact copper]

You’re an evil fucked up individual you know that?

Also I wanna say ||I love how much Matilda was playing the manipulator all episode. The fact she waited until things were about to get worse before revealing the incriminating info on Grimal and then Elise is, peak||

[north crest]

So wait

||why was grimal burned?||

[compact copper]

||Occam’s Solar Sorcery||

||when she was dominated to choke him out and steal the data he used all his remaining power to try and burn his attacker||

||against a regular human it’s not as good as a vampire but it’s still pure sunlight||

||itll burn||

[north crest]

||so grimal is the ghoul/vamp?||

[compact copper]

||No, she’s a normal human||

||She was just dominated by Matilda somehow||

||She did choked out Occam and steal the data but she was being mind controlled||

[north crest]

||then why did she burn? If she’s not a ghoul or blank then how did Solar Sorcery affect her?||

[compact copper]

||because it’s still hot||

||Solar sorcery makes extremely hot sunlight. It’ll burn a human like if they came into contact with anything else that hot||

||her burns weren’t even that immense, they looked like a bad sunburn or like she said a lighter burn||

[north crest]

||ah gotcha||

[warped portal]

||I've seen some theories that there is still a ghoul at the chapter house, and it might be Grimal or Elise||

[compact copper]

||I doubt that, because not only did Grimal choke out Occam, but she also gave the smokes to Matilda||

||Combined with her foggy memory and denying she never would, that implies she was dominated the entire time until she gave the smokes to Matilda||

||combined with her foggy memory not starting until she was in the security room means Elise couldn’t have dominated her||

||as she didn’t actually go with her to the security room, she gave her headband and advice and then went with Markus and the gang to the torture chamber||

[compact copper]

||also during the Matilda fight, her eyes were shaking like she was under Delirium, just in her case it went into the fight response rather then flight||

[warped portal]

||EVERYONE was under Delirium during the fight||

[compact copper]

||exactly, which ghouls are immune to||

[simple hill]

kinda telling that ||grimal's delirium response was extreme aggression like Brok||

[compact copper]

||I think the far more likely answer was that Kevin, was kinda wrong. He was close to the regent yes but not close enough for all her secrets. And in the world do politics and backstabbing that make up Vampire society, admitting you’re working with werewolves is a massive blow to your credibility. So I think she lied, she did have operators in the arcanum, just not a ghoul.||

[compact copper]

||Shes been itching to slap someone with that yaoi paddle since the pub let her have this (and then have all her ribs broken)||

[simple hill]

but why would a ||werewolf with apparently a werebear supporter be working with a lowly regent of norfolk||

I guess that the Regent's chantry is located in what appears to be very very weird and mystical place

that ||werewolves might be interested in ||

[compact copper]

||Not sure yet, but I know there are werewolves who effectively work as mercenaries for other supernaturals||

[simple hill]

||The werewolves in question appears to be looking for Shuck||

[compact copper]

||and I know some can steal other supernatural’s powers like dominate, which would be perfect for an infiltrator like Matilda||

[simple hill]

so maybe ||the regent promised them information from the lore of the chantry?||

[compact copper]

||Yah maybe||

[prisma adder]

https://youtu.be/P1VypUBTi3o?si=U5mLAS6qhsQv-uBY

[compact copper]

||especially since we know they were after the hunter data for one reason or another||

||even when caught Matilda goes for it before it’s destroyed by Remold||

[simple hill]

||I mean werewolves themselves would have motivation to go after hunter data||

[compact copper]

||so that was their objective, kidnapping Markus was them making good on a bad situation||

[simple hill]

the hunters are probably greater threat to werewolves than vampires frankly

[compact copper]

||Yah but I can’t imagine they’d do this whole, subtle long form infiltration unless they were working for someone else||

[simple hill]

yeah

||werewolves are far more prone to doing smash and grabs after all||

[compact copper]

||like Matilda mentioned, someone else in her tribe did seem to have the much more common werewolf plan of “run in and murder everyone”||

[graceful jay]

Not confirming the theory one way or another but lore clarification

[compact copper]

Oh?

[graceful jay]

in 5th, Ghouls are explicitly not immune to Delerium

[compact copper]

Ah ok

[simple hill]

but yeah as a sidebar

I think it's definitely possible that the regent still has a ghoul in the chantry

just... ||wasn't even aware that hunter data was a thing||

[prisma adder]

||I mean there's definitely something else in the chantry because like, did anyone notice that one portrait smirking?||

[simple hill]

or even paying much attention to the ||arcanum at all||

at this point what isn't in the arcanum

they even got a magical silver box that I wonder how it hasn't wiped itself out with paradox

[prisma adder]

Probably because most magic stuff in the Arcanum is using linear magic not awakened magic is my guess

It's not like sorcery can't be super powerful, it's just more limited

The Arcanum in general has an inner caste of sorcerers/linear mages within their ranks so it's not like it's unexpected

[simple hill]

yeah but that silver box do have Mage symbolism on it

which makes me wonder if its actual artifact made of mage craft as opposed to linear magic

[warped portal]

Ah. ||Then, my money is still, unfortunately, on Elise||.

[graceful jay]

Y'know this specifically is for spoilers

[simple hill]

||I do wonder--what powers do werewolves get that would allow them to use Dominate||

[prisma adder]

From what I remember of mage most symbolism in it comes from alchemy anyways so it wouldn't surprise me if that was just common symbolism used in both awakened and linear magic?

[simple hill]

true

it is a very freaky box though

||werewolf mercenaries are kinda a scary concept||

like ||what would they even want||

because i can't ||imagine they'd fight for something as trivial as money||

[prisma adder]

Looking through w5 now and

This is a renown 7 gift

[warped portal]

That seems to fit... but what about the moths?

[prisma adder]

Looking for the other ones

This also works, much smaller renown for Ragabash only

That's from Philodox

I guess she could just be a high renown Philodox with Geas and Jam Technology

It works

It also kinda works because philodoxes are kinda the more chill of the garou? They're meant to be mediators and thus more social, it fits her mostly manipulative games instead of just deciding to start ripping people apart earlier and just get out of the chantry already

Can't find anything on the moths

HtP uses mostly 5th edition but with some 20th on top so

It could be a 20th anniversary gift or something

[graceful jay]

Every gift shown on-screen is in 5th

[prisma adder]

Or it could be some artistic liberty to represent a gift that allows garou to waste away materials they touch but idk

[graceful jay]

However not every Gift will line up 1-to-1 with a given example spirit

[prisma adder]

RENDER DOWN
In a matter of seconds, the werewolf is able to corrode,
rot, or otherwise cause any inert material they touch to
decay, as if left exposed to the elements for decades. An
insect-spirit or a spirit associated with carrion grants this
Gift.

I mean moths are insects so

It kinda works

But yeah all other gifts she used I saw in the w5 book 1 to 1 basically

[frail citrus]

Moths eat carrion right

[prisma adder]

What

[graceful jay]

Some do

[frail citrus]

that would make || our cultprit a... red talon? ||

[simple hill]

Werewolves take agg damage from fire right

Does that include WP bullets

[compact copper]

I mean fire is fire

[weak phoenix]

Yeah

Just sucks it was the wrong bullet for the job.

[simple hill]

It did ||just enough damage to make her really mad I gueds|||

[prisma adder]

Tbh everyone in WoD takes agg damage from fire? I'm pretty sure

Except wraiths, but wraiths have like weird underworld blue fire that deals agg damage

[simple hill]

Do humans take aggravated damage from fire

What about a werewolf with mystical protection against fire

[prisma adder]

||Tbh hommid form is immune to silver bullets so it just wouldn't have mattered||

[simple hill]

So if ||big D succeeded in skewering the werewolf through the neck while she was in hommid form would she have died for real||

[prisma adder]

Tbh idk… just makes sense fire would be agg depending on intensity at least
I only ever read VtM 20th and 5th, WtA 5th, CtD 20th and WtO 20th

And I think in all of them fire is bad news

[prisma adder]

||To my understanding, werewolves in hommid form are basically not much different from just straight up humans||

||Actually I think she might have been in glabro form by that time?||

[simple hill]

Yeah think so

Considering ||she also survived a bullet to the heart||

[prisma adder]

||Yeah glabro form already has supernatural regeneration and a weakness to silver so, oof||

[simple hill]

Also what kind of ||dagger is big D using||

||She seemed more annoyed by getting slashed by his dagger than getting blasted by a flamethrower||

Was it a ||silvered weapon||

It also ||cut her arm clean off even when she was in her glabro form||

[prisma adder]

||I'm not sure because he did literally amputate her arm with it and it just grew back||

[simple hill]

I guess he did mention he keeps a poisoned blade

So maybe ||it’s just some kind of super poison that can even annoy werewolves||

Or it could|| be the magical cursed knife he mentions back in his audio log with Kevin ||

[compact copper]

Also ||Remold is seriously impressive this episode. Landing a center mass shot on Matilda while under the effects of Delirium is an insanely hard shot, especially when Big D was right there||

[simple hill]

Yeah ||if it was a vampire it would’ve been toasted||

Unfortunately ||they were fighting the equivalent of a spacemarine||

[gusty urchin]

||i thought i saw it drain some of her blood but i could be wrong||

[simple hill]

It seemed ||to burn her and there was an acidic sizzling noise||

But that could be either ||poison or some weird magical blade||

[prisma adder]

||Considering in 5th Werewolf delirium is opposed by a composure+resolve test, he could simply have those high enough to have brushed it off, which seems to have been the case considering his pupils stop going all fuzzy||

[simple hill]

Yeah ||experienced enough hunter with enough dots in resolve and composure to just say no to delirium||

Crazy night for Amanda btw

[prisma adder]

||An outcome of fear usually indicates that the individual
will flee if the opportunity exists. Other potential fear
responses are panic, disbelief, fetal-position catatonia,
and desperate but probably ineffectual “playing possum”
responses.
Controlled fear indicates the urge toward self-preser-
vation, but with possible rational or protective responses,
such as shooting at the horror while running away or a
desperation to escape that includes locking doors or turn-
ing over obstacles in hopes of inhibiting pursuit.
Resignation indicates that the onlooker accepts what
they’re dealing with and makes a decision from there. In
most cases, people resigned to a hulking werewolf before
them realize that fleeing is the wisest course of action,
but some people choose to stand their ground or even fire
a desperate shot at the monster. These people usually die,
but the important distinction is that they kept their wits
about them.
Forgetting what they witnessed can take a number of
forms. It may literally be forgetting the episode, as with
a blackout; it may be a rationalization, no matter how
implausible (“And then a pack of wild dogs tore the guy
apart!”); or it may be an episode of fugue or self-doubt
(“I can’t even remember what it was I saw, but there was
blood everywhere…”). If the details of what a witness
remembers matter, the Storyteller decides what’s most
appropriate or dramatically interesting.||

[simple hill]

In one night she learns

||vampires and ghouls and werewolves are real

Her co worker is a werewolf

She gets electrocuted by one of her bosses for questioning

She uses a firearm for the first time to shoot said former coworker||

Someone give her a promotion

[compact copper]

||Does Solar sorcery affect ghouls more then regular humans?||

[prisma adder]

Tbh I still have no bloody idea what solar sorcery is?

[simple hill]

I think it’s a concept made for hunter

The parenting

So we have no idea how it works

[prisma adder]

Wait lemme check

One thing

[simple hill]

Aside from it involves storing sunlight in his body

[compact copper]

Ok then I guess ||dies sunlight affect ghouls more then normal humans?||

Because that’s all it seems to be

[simple hill]

No I don’t think it does

But it does seem like vita has negative reaction to it

Which is why they hold occam above suspicion

Because if he was a ghoul he wouldn’t be able to use solar sorcery

[compact copper]

Ok ||So her being burned like that doesn’t seem to confirm or deny her being a ghoul||

[simple hill]

Yeah

[compact copper]

||because the burns were only on her skin||

[simple hill]

||heavy exposure to sunlight can burn ordinary people too||

||all it proves is that she was the one who strangled him||

[compact copper]

Yah

And ||if Matilda dominated her then yah that all checks out||

[deft urchin]

||I still think Grimal is the ghoul 😞 It's not unbelievable that she could just be lying and we still don't know if a werewolf could've dominated anyone||

[simple hill]

But yeah it was basically that ||the strangler couldn’t have been a vampire because if it was a vampire, they’d be dusted by occam’s solar sorcery||

Doubled with big d checking everyone for rotschreck

To make ||doubly sure nobody is a vampire||

[simple hill]

I think ||there’s too much evidence going for the fact that Matilda probably dominated grimal||

[heady pine]

||Why did Matilda have the cigs and the Hunter Data then?||

[simple hill]

There’s ||this odd moment in the bathroom where Grimal loses her train of thought while arguing with Matilda and then suddenly lights her smoke for her||

Which I ||noticed was extremely out of character behavior||

[compact copper]

||Yah especially since if she is a ghoul, then the cigs were planted in advance expecting she’d eventually pull them out, would get called out on them, and she could grab them and put the data in without anyone noticing||

||which is frankly an insane plan if it worked, but also is so unlikely to work and not something I could see Grimal planning||

[prisma adder]

||Literally posted above that in werewolf 5 there's a gift that's basically dominate||

[compact copper]

||and some werewolves can just steal vampire disciplines||

[prisma adder]

Yeah I went to double check and sun sorcery is not theurgy either

[simple hill]

I think it’s something just made up for hunter the parenting

[prisma adder]

Had a bit of a moment where I was like "wait the inquisition has their own little sorcery paths and such"

Nothing about the sun tho, there's hellfire tho lmao

[compact copper]

That feels counter productive

[simple hill]

It’s TRADITIONAL CELTIC MARTIAL ARTS

Well hellfire was created by god to punish evil

So it’s actually very appropriate

[compact copper]

||also we can rule out Occam anyway because if he were a ghoul, he coulda gotten into the archives years ago||

||the infiltrator has to be someone without normal access to them||

[prisma adder]

I wonder if what they're calling sun sorcery is just souped up true faith

[compact copper]

It is explicitly pagan so probably not

[prisma adder]

But then again

[prisma adder]

Uuuh true faith isn't exclusively Christian or Muslim or Jewish in lore

[simple hill]

Yeah

[prisma adder]

It's just having enough faith to ward off evil, according to any faith

[simple hill]

I’m not even sure you even have to be religious strictly speaking

[prisma adder]

But also it wouldn't be it because Occam clearly shows sorcerous aptitude at the beginning of the first episode of this act

[compact copper]

Oh I thought it was explicitly Christian in owod

My b

[prisma adder]

It's ok

But still I doubt it is

[simple hill]

Yeah I don’t think it’s true faith

Occam sounds too reasonable

[prisma adder]

It's really just homebrew sorcery

[simple hill]

To be a true faithful

[compact copper]

Also yah it’s probably just linear magic

Occam is at the end of the day a scholar first and foremost

He could learn sorcery

[simple hill]

True faithful are by default insane

[compact copper]

Especially one with roots in his heritage

[simple hill]

CELTIC MARTIAL ARTS

[compact copper]

They don’t tell you this but back in the day the average Irishman could do this

[simple hill]

If only it was a ||lunar sorcery||

[compact copper]

Occam is actually the weakest Celtic

[prisma adder]

Lmao

[compact copper]

Actually do we know if Occam is Irish?

[prisma adder]

He's lived in Norfolk for too long he must go to at least Wales or the Highlands to recharge

[compact copper]

Or is it Gaelic which includes part of britain besides Ireland?

[simple hill]

But what if it’s actually from Breton or Cornwall

[prisma adder]

I mean Cornwall would be a bit of a trip but yeah

But from his accent I think he's Irish?

[ancient crescent]

I do highly appreciate the visuals of Stepping Sideways

[prisma adder]

Oh yeah they made a really awesome representation of that

I agree

[compact copper]

His grandpa is danish (or at least I think the blackclaws are danish?)

[prisma adder]

Thought they were Belgian

[compact copper]

Oh right

[prisma adder]

Blacklaw speaks French randomly

[compact copper]

Is French common in Belgium?

[prisma adder]

Belgium speaks like 3 languages yes

Near the French border it's French, near the German border it's German, and then you also have Dutch

[compact copper]

Ah, one of those situations

[prisma adder]

Yee

[compact copper]

Also like, I’m gonna bring it up before anyone else does

||I need werewolf Matilda to actually murder me holy shit||

[prisma adder]

Lmao yes

||why werewolf hot???? Am I a furry?? Is this my furry awakening??||

[compact copper]

Yes

Don’t deny it

Embrace it

[prisma adder]

||I'm so glad they didn't give her furry boobs and just made her a slab of muscle and rage, very gender||

[compact copper]

Also I just realized

||Matilda decided for her fake human name, her last name would be Wilde||

||werewolves really refuse to be subtle huh?||

[ancient crescent]

"Coachferatu"

But yes

Did very good justice to my favorite gameline/supernatural type

[radiant drum]

||Subtlety is for cowards and servants of the Wyrm.||

[ancient crescent]

I mean

TBF she was subtle until she couldn't be

[prisma adder]

||I wanted to play W5 before but I must admit I wanna play it more now||

[compact copper]

||until she was blown, she was legit a great manipulator||

[ancient crescent]

I have opinions on it, but at this point i'd honestly play it if it meant playing werewolf

[compact copper]

||everything she said really felt calculated to put as much suspicion off her and to speed up the process so she could leave||

[prisma adder]

I get put off by 20th because of all the weird undertones like ||all the racial purity and nazi shit that attracted a decent bit of nazis and race purists to the line…?||

Glad they got rid of all that in 5th

[ancient crescent]

Not the channel for it, but suffice it to say, I am not a fan of a lot of the setting and thematic changes.

[near schooner]

|| https://tenor.com/view/bromance-sig-curtis-alex-louis-armstrong-fullmetal-fma-gif-18194534 ||

[ancient crescent]

||And I'm still trying to figure out Matilda's Auspice/Tribe||

[prisma adder]

||I think she's philodox just because of Geas?||

||They're the only auspice with a straight up dominate equivalent gift||

||Idk about tribe||

[weak phoenix]

||So, saw the mention of Brocklaw being able to fire off while in the Delirium.||

||Think he was able to do that because he and his son have gone on hunts against Were's before.||

||More specifically, hunts against Werebear's.||

||Also, Big D's dagger? Yeah, it's made from Primium.||

[compact copper]

||yah, and despite his, everything, dude is legit an extremely experience hunter||

[weak phoenix]

||Yep.||

[weak phoenix]

||It's why instead of healing over like a wound from silver. The slashes on Matilda charred and blacken.||

||It's a combo of purified alchemical silver and gold.||

[frail citrus]

||red claws i believe ||

||the power was locked to them||

[weak phoenix]

||And Primium is only know to very extremely few groups. So, uh, who the hell did D used to hang out with before the Arcanum?||

...

||Oh shit. Horses's prophecy came fucking true.||

[compact copper]

Which one?

[weak phoenix]

||The one about a third eye opening and changelings being involved.||

||Where did we a 'third eye'? Marcus and the occulus.||

||The Changelings? Marcus getting dragged into the Umbra with the Were's.||

[ancient crescent]

||Boy is Shuck||

Calling it.

[weak phoenix]

||We don't know that yet.||

||Boy could be a lot of things.||

||But they lean into very concerning directions.||

[compact copper]

||all we know for sure is that Boy is Boy||

||Or is he?||

[ancient crescent]

Horse certainly thinks so

And there's no reason not to trust him, he's Big D's favorite son.

[weak phoenix]

Okay, so, about that.

Is Horse just a Horse who became magical?

Or is Horse a son who got transformed into a horse?

[ancient crescent]

I think the only person who suspects that Horse is not just a Horse is Boy

[simple hill]

Horse is just an ordinary horse

[weak phoenix]

So, before this, did everyone just went along with Horse being Big D's son just because they treated it as "Big D thing"?

[simple hill]

Boy is a drug addict

[weak phoenix]

He is a traumatized child.

[compact copper]

Probably

[weak phoenix]

Yeah

To circle back

||I really hope Marcus doesn't make a deal with something in the Umbra.||

[compact copper]

He will absolutely do that

No doubt in my mind

[prisma adder]

||He absolutely will, he's Magnus after all||

[compact copper]

||it won’t be the first time he deals with the Fey at least||

[weak phoenix]

||Oh crap, this is Russ breaking his spine all over again.||

||Huh.||

||Is Russ a werewolf?||

[prisma adder]

Can't get more on the nose than space wolves

If you ask me

[weak phoenix]

||No, no. Is he like a werewolf werewolf? Because Marcus is about to go get interrogated by a werewolf council.||

||What if Russ is on that council?||

[prisma adder]

||https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Wulfen||

[weak phoenix]

Heh

Digganobz!

[prisma adder]

||What I mean is space wolves have werewolves||

[weak phoenix]

Digganobz!

[ancient crescent]

N-no, I'm fairly sure those are wulf- <HAMMER> Uuuuuurgh...

[weak phoenix]

Fool! Behold!

[split raven]

||im thinking philodox/red talon; philo for geas as mentioned above, red talon for Render Down, which the book says requires touch but ehh rule of cool||

[compact copper]

Also wonder who that guy with glasses to the right is

[split raven]

im amused by Kitten just straight up having cat ears

[fluid prism]

Oh of course grimal's swimwear of choice is a typical anime swimclass suit

[green geyser]

D is wearing ice cream

[weak phoenix]

Yes, yes he is.

Also, the guy with shades.

Anybody else think he might be related to the Law's?

[north crest]

Could be a blacklaw

Iirc remold married into the family

[weak phoenix]

Yes, he did marry into the Blacklaw's.

Here's my question

||Who is the chapter house's landlady and why is there a sense of foreboding even though she never is mentioned?||

[north crest]

That’s just every landlord

[graceful jay]

These guys didn't even notice Lester, the Scholar of Murder and Killing

Smh

[simple hill]

Maybe the landlady is the local owner of a 99 p store

[ancient crescent]

dammit i want to play werewolf now. 😐

[simple hill]

Btw the ||spider with the digital voice that advised Matilda to withdraw||

Is that the ||weaver spirit||

[split raven]

||it might be a pattern spider, but it's definitely not the weaver||

[ancient crescent]

||I figured it was passing on a message from somebody else.||

[north crest]

Does Amanda have an accent?

[north crest]

Rewatching episode 4 and holy shit there’s so much evidence towards ||Matilda|| being the mole

Wait crackpot theory

||there still is a ghoul in the chapter house: and it’s Doctor waters||

[north crest]

||notice how hastily she takes power after occam gets choked out? How she’s constantly denying everything? There’s something deeper here||

[surreal crown]

||Idk man she might just be a dom||

[north crest]

||also, Big D didn’t put the Molotov up to her||

||but that’s just to disprove her being vamp, not just a ghoul||

[gusty urchin]

||she does own fuzzy handcuffs||

[ionic cloud]

||Still wondering if the wolf was the mole kevin talked about or it just so happened to be theplace where a fucking Garou and ghoul come across each other||

[bright aurora]

there's a joke in here about Communist party meetings on federal holidays...

[graceful jay]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngk8_IHTWpM

[radiant drum]

||God Matilda really was humble bragging when she said that wasn't she?||

[chilly seal]

||Also, gorgeous wallpaper material, i need this at max quality||

[chilly seal]

I just noticed, Door is not there

[north crest]

He has no time for such frivolities when there a tables to inspect

[green geyser]

Also, he's american

He probably wasn't around

[north crest]

I thought they moved in together at once

[chilly seal]

||She 100% doms people and uses all of her psychological knowledge to do it ||

[compact copper]

Probably back when he was busy in the army

[chilly seal]

True that

[north crest]

I wouldnt have guessed that it would be that recent

I’d think that his service would’ve happened in the 80s-90s

[radiant drum]

He could have thought going to a Lūʻau was a waste of time or not wanted to go.

[chilly seal]

That as well

[surreal crown]

Ain't there someone in a painting with a metal detector?

I assign them Door

[unique ermine]

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx_lRF9UOWTTWxtYkB9I1xbyg3KNXD_tWE?si=Oj-YaUe9HgaxB8XM

also interesting Elise seemed to find the 'cause i'm hunter' thing nice

[north crest]

||so what’s gonna happen to Markus?||

[simple hill]

Food

[north crest]

||they really gonna kill him off?||

[simple hill]

Culinary

[ancient crescent]

||They were going to interrogate him about Black Shuck||

[ancient crescent]

Eating people is against the Litany

[simple hill]

What if they are black spiral dancers though

[ancient crescent]

If they are BSDs, then he is completely fucked on multiple levels.

But I don't think they're BSDs

[north crest]

Wait do ||Garou have a dominate equivalent?||

[ancient crescent]

||Philodox do||

[simple hill]

yeah I suppose ||Big D calls her Warrior of Gaia||

which he wouldn't use against BSDs

[north crest]

Wait

||philodox aren’t warriors||

[simple hill]

I'm pretty sure ||Big D calls almost all werewolves warrior of gaia||

[ancient crescent]

||All Garou count as "Warriors of Gaia"||

[simple hill]

a ||military negotiator is still a soldier||

[ancient crescent]

||Because that's why Gaia created them||

[north crest]

Gotcha

[ancient crescent]

Just like Bastet are the 'Eyes of Gaia' Mokole are the 'Memories of Gaia' etc.

[north crest]

I also would say ||wait but if she wasn’t an Ahroun, she wouldn’t be as powerful, but then I remembered that all Garou are brick shithouses that can outrun trains||

[ancient crescent]

||You also probably wouldn't get an Ahroun to do that sort of infiltration if you had any other choice||

[simple hill]

that's a really ||high level power though isn't it for a philodox||

[ancient crescent]

||IDK, the overwhelming majority of my knowledge is W20 and prior, which the show acknowledges but uses sparingly||

[simple hill]

and even then until ||5e you couldn't use it to force people to attack each other||

I don't see it having that restriction in 5e though just from this text I'm reading

[north crest]

||she could be a ragabash||

[ancient crescent]

||BSD alternate forms also tend to be deformed or corrupted in some visible manner, and Matilda was not.||

[simple hill]

||ragabash would make more sense with how she can fuck with camera footage||

[north crest]

||she could’ve just done that in homid form||

[simple hill]

can all werewoves fuck with cameras by default

and ||ragabash makes sense with her role as an infiltrator I think?||

feel like also the ||most patient and calm of the werewolves (ragabash) can endure being a minimum wage worker for an etended period of time||

[north crest]

Yeag I think ||ragabash fits best, although we don’t know how she got the dominate and arm butterfly powers||

[rose rock]

||could be Grimal was just actually that frazzled after that intense argument with her ex||

[simple hill]

||Wonder if we are gonna go talk with some changelings now to try and pursue werewolves into the umbra||

who can enter the ||umbra? Changelings, werewolves, some mages, and?||

[north crest]

||wraiths I think?||

[simple hill]

yeah but they barely exist

and are too political

[rose rock]

with ||wraiths I think the trouble is more in leaving the umbra than getting in||

[weak phoenix]

||That blue fucker from the D's blender crusade is probably gonna show up in the Umbra.||

[simple hill]

maybe the hunters will ||storm the chantry to see if they have a physical portal to the Umbra down there somehow||

[rose rock]

||I'm more expecting the Hayesborough Torso||

or however the english spell it

[simple hill]

or maybe ||all these sidhe artifacts in the arcanum means they have a way to contact some fey or changelings to help them enter the umbra||

not that the|| arcanum is likely willing to help Markus out that much||

[weak phoenix]

||Those creepy fucking dolls have some use.||

[simple hill]

the ||coalition might be interested in chasing down this particular werewolf though since she's a known operator who was plotting against them though||

[rose rock]

I mean, being completely fair, ||the same culprit who abducted Markus also murdered Fatigue||

[simple hill]

true

||and the Coalition would definitely be interested in a werewolf who was plotting against them||

[weak phoenix]

||Some of the Arcanum wants some blood.||

[rose rock]

so if they're not in it for one they still might be in it for the other

[weak phoenix]

||Like Blacklaw.||

||He still needs to avenge Fatigue.||

[simple hill]

both the Blacklaws ||want to kill that werewolf one for killing Fatigue the other for crippling Git I guess||

[north crest]

||isn’t it spelt Happisborough?||

[weak phoenix]

||Also, nice to know Fatigue is still watching over those idiots even while enjoying his heaven vacation.||

[simple hill]

Wonder how ||they'll handle Git. Do they have some magical healing technique or prosthetic for him||

[rose rock]

to quote multiple people from the episode: ||"Everybody liked Fatigue"||

[simple hill]

except for the help but they aren't people, they work minimum wage

poor git though, really

[rose rock]

I think they count as part of "Everybody"

||except the one that's a werewolf||

[weak phoenix]

||Be funny if it turns out that Fatigue actually had a favor with another Were because of his offscreen redemption stuff.||

[simple hill]

do werewolves ||have human rights||

[weak phoenix]

||Yes||

[simple hill]

hrm

[weak phoenix]

||Well, in this case it would be sentient rights.||

[simple hill]

what kind of edges do you think Fatigue had

[rose rock]

||when they're in human form yes||

[bright aurora]

||So the spirits that Matilda was chatting with in the Umbra are definitely the Chaos God expies right||

[patent cargo]

||not everything is a TTS reference.||

[weak phoenix]

||No, they're probably from either the Wyld or the Weaver.||

||Or maybe from Gaia.||

[simple hill]

wonder if ||Markus is already an awakened mage||

just somehow doesn't realize it

[rose rock]

I'm of the belief that ||the voice she heard from the spider is simply another member of her pack||

[simple hill]

I'm guessing the ||spider that showed up is a pattern spider||

[rose rock]

I'm not terribly familiar with the WOD lore, what's a ||pattern spider||?

[simple hill]

https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Pattern_Spider

they also show up in norfolk wizard games

I think

[rose rock]

is it of any relation to ||the internet spiders that nearly ate bill and sybil over in the Norfolk Wizard Game||?

ah preemptively answered my question

dang it's all connected

like strings

oh god a terrible realization has occurred to me

||Clippy is a servant of The Weaver||

[simple hill]

but yeah ||pattern spider is the most basic weaver spirit and if they maintain cyber systems for werewolves it would make sense how they can allow for communication between two werewolves over long distances and also explain the weird radio crackle in that telepathic communication||

||since its emulating cybernetic systems||

[rose rock]

Big D was not lying huh

[simple hill]

some of the technocrats also worship the Weaver

i'm pretty sure

since they are all working towards the same endgoal of stability and stasis

[rose rock]

makes sense

and also the wyrd

at least i think the wyrd's the one that preserves

and some are even into the wyrm because the technocracy is not an institution that's particularly concerned with that axis

[simple hill]

so is ||Markus not an Imbued Hunter||

with ||sense Superantural|| Edge

[rose rock]

jury's out at the moment

but ||probably||

err

which over answer says ||he is that||

[north crest]

||where does a spider show up? Cuz I only remember seeing a bear and a quail||

[rose rock]

shortly before the ||umbra portal opens up and Markus is yoinked||

it's ||on Matilda's shoulder||

[patent cargo]

||It's very, very small and crawls up on her other shoulder||

[simple hill]

moments before ||the radio crackle a spider crawls out of the werewolf's left shoulder fur||

[rose rock]

the other one

[simple hill]

which is on the right side of the video to be clear

are the ||pheasant and the bear btw her summoning up her totems||

[north crest]

Gotcha

[north crest]

Also spoilers on the image

[simple hill]

that's why I marked it as a spoiler

[compact copper]

Ngl looking at the subreddit ||I do feel like people are a bit to hung up on there still being a ghoul. I think it’s far more likely Matilda was the mole the regent was referring to and Kevin was partially wrong||

||either being lied to by the regent because of who she was working with or being told there was a mole in the chapter house and coming to the conclusion it was a ghoul himself||

[simple hill]

it's possible but either way the ||ghoul wasn't a significant player in the night's events||

if the ||ghoul actually exists that is||

i'd almost believe that the ||regent just forgot she had an agent in the arcanum and wasn't even paying much attention to the situation||

[rose rock]

||the regent does seem like the type to neglect ghouls that don't give the results she wants, given Chapman's treatment by her||

[simple hill]

like ||she barely knows how to work a telephone i don't think she's aware of 'data'||

[weary plaza]

||If there is no ghoul then it meens Matilda is a Black Sprial Dancer, and she dose not have the teailtail sighens of being the sort of person who things haivng clubhouse inside the Chernobyl reactor is a good idea||

[compact copper]

||my hang up is if Grimal is the ghoul, why would Matilda have the smokes? Common courtesy doesn’t seem like a good enough reason to give her the whole pack and Grimal isn’t that nice anyway. Especially when Elise, her actual friend is the one who gave them to her. Assuming she did choke out Occam and steal the data all by herself, why would she give Matilda the smokes that didn’t have the data? Since that theory relies on Grimal planting the data in the smokes right as she takes them and passes them to Git||

||this only makes sense if Matilda dominated Grimal and got the smokes with the hunter data in them when they were in the security room||

[simple hill]

yeah ||matilda dominated Grimal somehow||

[compact copper]

||Yah Chapman is her mole in the police department and he hasn’t been contacted in months||

[simple hill]

anyways all i'm saying is

||we proved that a werewolf was behind the events of tonight||

||but we didn't disprove the existence of a ghoul||

[rose rock]

I'd go less far and say that all we've proved thus far is ||A werewolf murdered Fatigue||

[simple hill]

it's possible ||that a neglected ghoul without any particular orders is in the arcanum||

[rose rock]

that makes it sound plausible to me that ||it's Grimal||

[simple hill]

it would explain ||Waters and Spit's withdrawl symptoms anyways||

[rose rock]

||but I also think she was just genuinely that frazzled after her argument with Kitten in the previous episode, just look at how crushingly sad she is in that security footage||

[compact copper]

||Also I will say it’s weird when Grimal lighted Matilda’s cigarette she said cognis mentis, the same thing she said after being tortured to tell the truth||

[simple hill]

yeah that's when|| I clocked that Matilda was the infiltrator||

||It was completely out of character for her to lose track of her argument mid-sentence and just blank out like that||

I figured that she got ||hypnotized somehow again at that moment||

grimal's a confrontational type of person who has pretty long memory of past grudges

[compact copper]

Yah

[simple hill]

so for her to ||lose her train of thought in a heated argument really struck me as being odd||

was having trouble figuring out what happened exactly though

||no command words like Dominate||

I guess a ||Geas would make sense but wouldn't explain how she got dominated to the point that she was willing to attack Occam||

||I guess its possible that Grimal felt she was such an outcast from Arcanum that she became willing to attack Occam under the effect of a geas||

[rose rock]

something just occurred to me actually

||do we have any clues as to how up-to-date Kevin's tip on the ghoul in the Norfolk chapter house is?||

[compact copper]

||he did leave the regent years ago at this point so probably pretty out of date||

[rose rock]

or out-of-date as the case may be

[simple hill]

yeah

||which is why I was having trouble believing that regent was after the hunter data||

||the regent seems.... distracted||

||and also technologically illiterate enough to have no idea what the fuck 'data' means||

[patent cargo]

||she may have had it coordinated by an underling a little more in with the times and could explain it to her like she's five.||

[simple hill]

||they can't even get her to pay upkeep for her own chantry's security systems||

[patent cargo]

||ah, right, nevermind then lmao.

let me extend your theory then: does that necessarily mean there's no ghoul? it could just be that there's a new one from a different, independent party. essentially a double coincidence pile-up. the previous mole leaving before being discovered, of course.||

||but that's like maximum "what if nothing is true" so shrug||

[simple hill]

I have mentioned before that ||the night's event failed to disprove the existence of a ghoul||

so it's ||even possible that a regent does have a ghoul in the arcanum--one that she just forgot about||

||I'd find it far more believable if the ghoul's instruction was to steal celtic artifacts and not hunter data||

that just ||seems like something she would do||

[patent cargo]

||Wait, here's the thing, if Kevin's info is so out of date, the ghoul must have somehow gone through several luaus in summer daylight without suspicion.

So either the ghoul already left, or his info is actually more up to date than usual.||

[simple hill]

I mean

a ghoul can walk in the sun just fine

[patent cargo]

...wait right I'm dumb lmao

[simple hill]

they were just ||suspecting a vampire in this episode because the ghoul exhibited superhuman strength that most ordinary ghouls won't have||

[patent cargo]

I got my brain crossed up due to the ||red herring theorizing||

[rose rock]

I thought that was just ||cross-contamination from there also being a werewolf involved in proceedings||

[patent cargo]

correct

[rose rock]

all we have that we can solidly pin on a ghoul specifically is the ||headmaster getting choked out when he was administering the blood test||

[patent cargo]

it actually just falls back to ||regular ghoul accidentally getting tossed up with the werewolf blood feud||

[patent cargo]

||either the hunter data implicates (in which case the smokes did pass through grimal's hands briefly) or it does not (in which case her suspicion is still pretty high due to being in the right room and her burns).||

[simple hill]

Why did ||Fatigue have to die||

Did the tribe have ||past history with him that marked him for death||

[rose rock]

most likely

[patent cargo]

||blood feud or to avoid potentially getting outed before the end. side objective, probably, since their main thing seemed to be focused on info on Shuck?||

||but it might be the other way around||

[rose rock]

||*Shuck||

[simple hill]

It just seemed weird for them to ||draw attention to to the possibility of a non-ghoul being involved like that unless it was really really important||

[rose rock]

the one you're talking about is ||Black Shuck||

[patent cargo]

||kill him first, and got two different side opportunites (one of which was bullet'd)||

but it could be either way

[patent cargo]

||then that might lean more towards Black Shuck info primary, deal with an old enemy on the side.||

[simple hill]

It would also be hilarious if there is a ||ghoul in the chapter house but it’s a person who’s out on vacation right now since they were never interested in the hunter data anyways||

[simple hill]

Yeah ||but if they were looking for info, why kill him||

Couldn’t they have just ||grabbed him and stepped sideways through a bathroom mirror||

I guess ||interior of the arcanum might be warded against stepping sideways actually||

[patent cargo]

||I don't think mirrors are good gateways for werewolves but my WtA info is like, surface level||

[rose rock]

also, ||werewolf||

||they're known for being very angry||

[simple hill]

Doesn’t ||any reflective surface work||

[patent cargo]

||isn't there problems with constructed locations or something?||

[simple hill]

Oh maybe

[rose rock]

I think they also make mirrors out of ||silver||

which I suspect would also cause problems for that

especially in the chapterhouse where the hunters know about ||werewolves||

[simple hill]

Not really I think

[patent cargo]

modern mirrors tend to be aluminium-backed, unless it's a U.S. import, in which case it would be made out of aluminum.

[simple hill]

||polished silver is explicitly a surface that makes stepping sideways easier||

[rose rock]

dang my unfamiliarity with WoD deep lore got me again

[simple hill]

It’s just carrying silver that causes problems for a werewolf

[patent cargo]

||my best guess is getting locked in the same building as a infamous werewolf hunter probably raised him up on her personal kill list before being there too long got her discovered.||

||if fatigue put together the pieces then she was gonna get outed, and she was defintely banking on the ghoul being a good cover for her kill||

[rose rock]

||I think Matilda iced Fatigue more for him prying into werewolf doings than actually hunting werewolves||

[simple hill]

||dog mafia covering up dog crimes||

[rose rock]

exactly

[simple hill]

But yeah what I’m confused about is

[patent cargo]

||taking it as a chance might be it. she saw the opportunity for a side objective, I guess?||

||I feel like leaning back off of "planned from the start"||

[simple hill]

||if Matilda could teleport like that why didn’t she just rush to the closest mirror and step sideways out||

As ||soon as she had the hunter data in hand||

||was she trying to preserve her cover or something||

[rose rock]

||you can't just do magic whenever you want, there's procedures to it||

||yes, even the stuff that doesn't come with Paradox Backlash||

[simple hill]

I suppose it’s also possible ||that the arcanum is warded pretty hard||

[patent cargo]

||she was helping get occam to his office, then harry made off, and she saw an opportunity, I think.||

[simple hill]

||if the Gauntlet is esp strong around the arcanum she won’t be able to step sideways||

||the voice mentioned that they have a rite going and that the gauntlet is weak||

[patent cargo]

||it defintely sounded like her escape had particular timing due to a limited window.||

[simple hill]

||so that might be what finally allowed her to breach||

[rose rock]

like i said, there's procedures to it

[simple hill]

Yeah makes sense

Do non verbal cues work with Dominate btw

[rose rock]

I think that's a high-level Dominate thing

[simple hill]

Or do Dominate specifically require a verbal component

[rose rock]

if it's even a thing at all

definitely not something anything less than an Elder could do

[patent cargo]

||also note that she was definitely going to continue fighting before her 'ride' unexpectedly arrived.||

[simple hill]

Kevin has five dots in Dominate I think

Since he dominated the entire family at once

But even he still required verbal commands

[chilly seal]

Many thanks, taht shit is gorgeous

[ancient crescent]

I just noticed that center in that is the Tree Witch

From the folklore episode

[chilly seal]

IT WAS ALL SETTING UP FOR THIS VERY MOMENT

NO DIALOG WAS WASTED

Also ||Me and my sis thinks Markus will 'awake' as a Mage, if he is to be a mage, since he went into the Umbra and that shit fucks you up if you aren't a Garou||

[ancient crescent]

||Also the whole Eye thing. The runes he was seeing||

[chilly seal]

||Where are they from? I am bad with my runes||

[ancient crescent]

I have no idea

[waxen ice]

||those're hunter runes from original hunter: the reckoning i believe||

[chilly seal]

ooooooooooh! Many thanks

[chilly seal]

So not necessarily he's a ||mage, but one of the evolutions of the hunters that can dabble in non vulgar magic, like Arkan does||

[waxen ice]

||he might be, he might not be. the symbols he's shown, after looking them over correspond to "puppets" and "danger" respectively||

[chilly seal]

Curious

[radiant drum]

||Maybe I missed the discussion but think we should be looking at the luau photos for clues too, they must have been shown for a reason, right? There are 5 characters who show up in all three. Occum, Remold, Fatigue, and two unnamed people. The Kryptmen look alike and The Knife Guy. He looks more upset im each photo and also doesn't change in any other way. That stands out to me. These are three photos taken over three decades and everyone else shows some kind of change be it musculature, stature, or hair color.||

[graceful jay]

Lester the Scholar of Murder and Killing has a name

[simple hill]

there are ||sidhe puppets moving about||

mages can't use linear magic right

[weary plaza]

Yep, and if they are kinfolk they also loos any gifts they might have

[simple hill]

Would a mage using something akin to linear magic in front of people who knew previously said mage could use linear magic (but doesn’t know he’s a mage now) proc paradox

[weary plaza]

There is an argument to be made that the mage was tappign in to Mystic Threads for reduced paradox but you don't generlay proc backlassh with out a botch, and just gain anti-Qintessase

But untill you get 20 points of paradox youjust kinda roll wiht it

But a lot of mage brakes down to what argument you can make to your GM about why relaity works the way you think it dose

[prisma adder]

To my understanding, it doesn't matter who's doing the magic, just the kinda magic that's being done
Linear magic is like slight bending of consensus and reality but that's still playing with rules and logic and therefore there is no risk of paradox
Awakened magic is like ripping consensus open and and tearing the rules in half, so there is room for backlash

Basically linear magic is subtle magic by nature, while you have to put in a lot of effort and creativity to make awakened magic subtle enough to not trigger any kinda backlash

[weary plaza]

Yeah the difference between Vulgar and Coincidental magic, but the main thing is making it believable and that is in part depenant on who is around them. Like a Celstial Choris member can get away wiht a lot in a congragation of there faith as the only witnesses who are mortal, and unawakend

[unique ermine]

i think it’d be more interesting if ||they just don’t, they triage him best they can and a relative innocent had to live with the harm of coming into contact with the supernatural||

[surreal crown]

Baseless Crack Theory: ||Fatigue was the Ghoul and was high up on Matilda's kill-list. Small enough to fit in the vents, unassuming and respected by the hunters, and as an old investment gained strong vampire boons.||

[waxen ice]

sorry to ping, but i just watched this the whole way through and anyone that makes use of ||gaston's vibrato|| as a gag is Guaranteed to make me lose my shit every time. fucking love that joke

[patent cargo]

you can turn off pings while replying. observe.

[rose rock]

dang that made me watch the ytp and it's actually quite good

the bit where it holds the shot on Grimaline while D licks his fingers is :chef's kiss:

also yes ||Gaston Vibrato|| elevates it

[waxen ice]

forgor

[ancient crescent]

Honelstly the whole

||Werewolf rampage.
"Oh, okay, no. Not engaging. LEAVE."
Pause. Sulks away with sad dog noises||

Killed me for some reason.

[rose rock]

a classic gag

[waxen ice]

||harder than it killed Brok?||

[ancient crescent]

||HOUDINI!? YOU CAN'T BE!! I KILLED HOUDINI!!!||

[unique ermine]

not to be gay but https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxWNGEdSS6HF8tdjMTnIFYK1L4ljxuTecB?si=kAZgs37CNBvSkp0L

[split raven]

No, be gay

[rose rock]

naw Grimal is a loathsome forever-alone fujo

[deft urchin]

Let's say that hypothetically I had a friend who said that they may, note may, have a desire to "fix her"

[rose rock]

Kitten tried that and it ended in acrimonious disaster

[latent snow]

Newest chapter spoilers ||ok, im not super familiar with the older editions, but what fucking gift was matilda using when her arm did that||

[rose rock]

the thing with ||the butterflies||?

[latent snow]

||yeah. Ive only read 5th edition (I got my copy second hand dont worry) and i didnt recognize it at all||

[patent cargo]

The general consensus I've gotten from three different locations is ||infest with some reflavoring.

It's important to note that it probably didn't actually explode the wall, but let Matilda break through, which is why she is already outside when Marcus and Brok land.||

[simple hill]

||Decay spirits I think||

||RENDER DOWN In a matter of seconds, the werewolf is able to corrode, rot, or otherwise cause any inert material they touch to decay, as if left exposed to the elements for decades. An insect-spirit or a spirit associated with carrion grants this Gift.||

[rose rock]

that would explain the ||butterflies||

[simple hill]

I think they are moths actually

who do ||eat through clothes and are associated with decaying places||

[latent snow]

||either sounds plausible frankly||

[rose rock]

rude, I'm sure they could manage a good cover of Africa by Toto

[compact copper]

Also, I just wanna complain a bit ||but I really hate the theory kitten is some kinda kinfolk||

||or in general theories about everyone being some kind of supernatural being||

[rose rock]

iirc even in 5e Hunter lore, capital-H Hunters are still built different

but yeah kitten can in fact just be a goofy regular Hunter

probably is since far as I can tell his greatest ability is being able to maintain stable relationships with the wackos of the Norfolk Hunting Scene

[ancient crescent]

https://bsky.app/profile/earndilio.bsky.social/post/3licgqorhks2r

Earndil (@earndilio.bsky.social)

We have an incredible backlog of shitposts from EP5 to share, like this one Karl made. #huntertheparentingspoilers

Likes

145

▶ Play video

Bluesky · Feb 16, 2025, 2:25 PM

[chilly seal]

Thank you Karl

[patent cargo]

While I do agree that ||it would diminish the cast heavily to basically turn into a cross-splat pile-up, the details on his HtR sheet are so heavy handed about his family being just generally weird and fond of cats (and also his parents were murdered under mysterious circumstances) that it breaks down into two choices:

bastet relatives and whatever in god's name that means for him

massive red herring troll so all of Ogre Poppengang can laugh at people taking the cat jokes too seriously.||

[rose rock]

I'm hoping for the latter

it's just funnier to me if Kitten's great power is just being able to get along with goobers like Big D, Marckus, and Door

[ancient crescent]

Kitten also didnt' seem to have the Delerium Eye effect

[patent cargo]

That part is unclear due to ||his eyes being too shrunk to tell (he is not the only character during the fight to have this problem)||

[rose rock]

also the goggles get in the way

[simple hill]

maybe he just has really high willpower state

||Markus seems barely affected too||

||Like he remains rational enough to protect Brok, use his weapons and armor, and also complain when he realizes he's getting abducted||

[rose rock]

being related to Big D just makes you like that

[simple hill]

which I guess makes sense if ||that weird eye thing is protecting him||

[rose rock]

which is why Remold ||has it for a split second until Big D enters the frame with him||

[patent cargo]

More on the theory in general, while I'm more relatively new to WoD and are basically grasping at any info source I can find that doesn't involve straight up piracy, there is a lot of problems I can find that get in the way of ||the theory that he's full-on bastet, such as, while 5e seems to shuffle the time period for first change forward to adulthood and loosens the rarity on late change, he's 34 and has experienced very traumatic events that really should have done something.

he could already have experienced first change, but that suggests he's been completely unmentored for a while, and as he hasn't quite lost all contact with his family there's no way in hell that would slide.||

[bright aurora]

Big-D is definitely not normal

It would not surprise me if his children are all something or other

Not necessarily WoD splats

But something

[rose rock]

common theory I've heard is Big D is old-version Imbued Hunter

which I think would be a good reason for him to know at least crash-course info on the major WoD splatbooks

[simple hill]

old version imbued hunter are basically supernaturals themselves right

[rose rock]

roughly

[patent cargo]

...Huh.

Apparently ||kinfolk straight up do not exist in WTA5e. Kin do, but it's the term for people who can experience first change and can either be complete random or come from a bloodline.

...hm.

???????????????????||

[simple hill]

welllllllll kinfolk had some unfortunate connotations from some of the research I've done anyways so maybe it's just getting on with the times

[rose rock]

hell if I know, Fatigue's the werewolf lore expert according to his Arcanum card

I'm still keeping my money on Kitten being a ||5e rules Hunter||

[patent cargo]

Well that certainly ||makes 'kinfolk as the safe option' basically nonviable in the theory.

so if he has secretly gone through WtA character creation, he's basically dodged like, a million chances to trigger first change.

while dramatic, the chances of that are frankly bizarre||

||so unless it comes with the caveat of "pulled off very well", in my eyes that leans more towards Kitten just having a diet consisting entirely of red herring.||

Kitten's family ||having an edited version of red riding hood is really funny, though.||

||it's just so extra as both either a hint or a troll||

[rose rock]

reference to ||B.B. Hood from Darkstalkers?||

I don't know if it would be funnier for it to be ||wolf-sympathetic|| or for it to be ||and then Little Red Riding Hood pulled an uzi and fucking iced the Big Bad Wolf||

[patent cargo]

oh it's actually fully described how it was changed

[simple hill]

Is the wyrm really bad anyways

It only wants to destroy the universe

But that’s like its job so

[patent cargo]

||the wolf is a werewolf and has been cursed into commiting evil things due to some vague ancient evil. red riding hood is now a cat (obviously), and a warrior, armed with a silver dagger.

additionally some undetailed changes meant it used to give Kitten nightmares when he was young. probably detailing the cat vs werewolf beatdown.||

[rose rock]

dang, ||splits the difference between "the Big Bad Wolf was not all bad" and "then Little Red fuckin' kicked the Big Bad Wolf's ass"||

[patent cargo]

||I think it's generally supposed to be sympathetic in a way, putting down a werewolf irreversibly cursed so they can rest. but that's just my interpretation.||

[rose rock]

that's the trick innit?

[simple hill]

honesetly that just sounds like he came from a family of Hunters

[rose rock]

it's solid evidence for either way

[simple hill]

||werewolf may be sympathetic but he must still be destroyed|| sounds like what a Hunter would say

[patent cargo]

I don't know, ||the part of "an ancient evil was responsible for the werewolf doing the bad things"|| means it could lean either way.

[simple hill]

anyways I think kitten just has unusually high stats for a human hunter but that's about it

like yeah ||he didn't go delirious and panick but neither did Amanda and that's somehow weirder||

[patent cargo]

||"bad things"|| being ||1. defile the forests, and 2. "hunger for fresh meat"... presumably like... in the sense of maximum murder time, like, wolves... Just... Eat fresh meat.||

[patent cargo]

||Amanda has delirium in the second to last shot, it's just very hard to see (shrunken eye problem strikes again!)||

[rose rock]

it's actually kinda genius how they threaded the needle so that even with the full information on how the story was edited, it's still not decisive info

[patent cargo]

yep!

that's the real fun part about that character sheet in general.

it's either a glaring batch of evidence or tantalizing bait for a massive troll.

[simple hill]

i'd more easily believe elise is a changeling or whatever

[patent cargo]

Elise is just Goth

Just like Grimal is just Weeb

all supernatural evidence? actually just normal you just need to account for the Quirky Factor

[rose rock]

there may still be a ghoul in the chapterhouse

but I fully believe that otherwise everyone in it is just "normal" 5e Hunters

"normal" in scare quotes because you can't be a Hunter without being some flavor of wacko

[simple hill]

the funniest option would be if the ghoul is the guy who isn't even in the chapterhouse that day

[rose rock]

also a valid option

and yes it would be very funny

[patent cargo]

In either case while I get your point that it's kind of silly to ||just have the normal human count slowly reduced and delete any amount of Relatable Humans in it||, hypothesizing things like ||what kind of bastet line he could be is inherently fun, same as any other conspiracy board nightmare ramble.||

[rose rock]

all in good fun

[patent cargo]

Though there are a few candidates for "last person in the entire series to even reasonably be supernatural" that will always remain as that touchstone no matter how many wild conspiracies come true.

Door is one of them. I would easier believe ||D being Gilgamesh or whatever nonsense that theory was|| than Door ever being anything but 100% Grade AAA American Meat

[ancient crescent]

TBF, one of my major examples of 'throwing the bathtub out with the bathwater' but that's neither here nor there.

I still have no idea what breed ||Kitten|| would be

[patent cargo]

I also have the personal feeling that Boy is on that list despite.... Horse.

[rose rock]

quite, Door is too un-quirky for his quirk to be anything but "just built different from being related to Big D"

[patent cargo]

I figure ||Bagheera as the closest, though there's still at least one problem with this.||

[ancient crescent]

I don't think Door is a blood relative, is he?

Or am I mixing up "SON IN LAW!!!" with Kitten?

[rose rock]

though I feel like I could construct a case for Door being ||a promethian|| if I were sufficiently motivated

[ancient crescent]

Prometheans are CofD

Not WoD

[rose rock]

Kitten is son-in-law, Door is actually one of Big D's sons

just American

you can also tell because Big D calls Boy "grandson"

and until I see evidence otherwise I will hold Door to be a single father like Goofy is

(which is to say, any relatives are from Door's side of the family unless explicitly stated to be from Boy's Mom's side of the family)

[compact copper]

Door is one of Big D’s biological sons

He only uses son in law for kitten

He refers to Boy as his grandchild as well

Which I guess is technically possible if he married into the family but then it wouldn’t really make sense for Door to call him father then

[compact copper]

We can only conclude Door’s mom is even more American then he is

In order to cancel out Big D’s inherit non Americanness

[patent cargo]

||Bagheera|| theory factors, though I must stress that I really don't have that good of sources and have to gather from secondary sources:
||Don't draw an issue with high tech toys and modern convenience
Tend to like the arts and sciences (though bastet are just generally secret keepers and scholarly, it seems to shift in focus for each tribe?) and not a combat-focus tribe like Simba
Tend to look very contemplative at all times
Strong sense of justice and righteousness
Yava unlikely to encounter as an issue without someone explicitly abusing them
Werepanthers, not a feline type with a blatant detail like lions
One of the loosely organized tribes
Not a destroyed/devastated tribe or an American-originating one

Theory problems:
Described usually as sleek and graceful, or attractive - "Attractive" is not even able to be objectively called, but sleek and graceful... Do not really come to mind, in my opinion.
Tend to have wanderlust - Kitten's backstory has him keep to his house for quite a long while and only came out of that due to good friendship. On the other hand, having your parents come up unexpectedly murdered tends to like, destroy you.||

I also stress that this theory assumes ||bastet|| to begin with, which I now feel is pretty unlikely.

[ancient crescent]

https://tenor.com/view/hunter-the-parenting-alfabusa-pyotr-kitten-little-kitten-gif-26074220

||Bastet would mean this isn't just a sight gag. And that annoyus me on some level.||

[patent cargo]

Being trolled by sight gags taken too seriously is pretty funny.

On a barely related note, Kitten being attractive under the jumper as a TTS reference gag would be pretty funny*, if it didn't have the potential to make the personally annoying "HtP exactly mirrors TTS and can predict every plot point" theories start up in full force again, again.

* double the funny if we still don't get to see his face.

[simple hill]

but will he be a black man

or, I guess, brown

[compact copper]

I think so

Also I’m rewatching the Akira Cross audio story again and like

[patent cargo]

...I vaguely recall a mention that he was confirmed black but wasn't given a direct source at the time

[compact copper]

I really need to see Boy and Grimal interact

[patent cargo]

So shrug

[simple hill]

it's all fun and games until Grimal sheds her skin and devours a fellow arcanist

[compact copper]

Turns out she’s not a ghoul she’s also a werewolf

Everyone in this chapter house is garou

[patent cargo]

game of werewolf ends:

everyone was the werewolf

[simple hill]

the arcanum is like that secret society in Paranoia comprised solely of spies from other secret societies

[rose rock]

so who's the government agent employed by Friend Computer?

[simple hill]

Blacklaws who are spies from the Coalition

[rose rock]

can't be, too obvious

[simple hill]

Waters then

since she uses Coalition terminology like Blankbodies

Occam is a spy from the Arcanum masquerading as the leader of the Arcanum to spy on the spies who are spying on the Arcanum

[compact copper]

Matilda is the only one there not with an agenda

She’s just a werewolf who needed the money

[simple hill]

Amanda takes bribe money from Pentex

Elise is an agent of the Seelie court trying to suppress information on fey

[patent cargo]

"i'm not even a bone gnawer I just don't have a better job, stop being an ass"

[rose rock]

by being the top authority in the Greater Yarmouth Arcanum?

[simple hill]

Grimaline is a camarilla propagandist trying to spread fake news about the kuei jin to muddle vampire lore for the hunters

[rose rock]

I don't buy it

Harry on the other hand, I'd absolutely believe he's on fae payroll

[compact copper]

Harry is actually the most just a guy there in in this show

The show could tell me to my face he’s connected to the supernatural and I would not believe him

He’s just a dude

[simple hill]

Fatigue was a werewolf which is why he had to assassinate matilda

[rose rock]

that makes him the perfect candidate to be an unwitting agent of the fae!

[compact copper]

He tried with his classic body explosion spell

[simple hill]

that's what he wanted us to think

[compact copper]

I feel like Harry’s just a guy energy is like cold iron to the Fae

He naturally repels the supernatural

[simple hill]

honestly maybe the reason why Elise can't find any evidence of the fey is because she goes on investigations with Harry

and he just repels changelings and fey with his ordinary energy

[compact copper]

A changeling tries to approach him and is burned as he tries to talk about dragonball

[patent cargo]

exudes an aura of pure consensus assertion

the supernatural simply disintegrates on contact into a perfectly reasonable scientific explanation

matilda was actually just in a fursuit she was hiding under the bar the entire time

[compact copper]

The only reason Markus hasn’t awakened yet is because he hangs out with him too much

[simple hill]

maybe Harry is an agent of the TECHNOCRACY

with his ordinariness

[compact copper]

OH FUCK

IT ALL COMES TOGETHER

[rose rock]

naturally, nobody except Occam and ||Matilda|| are actually aware of their supernatural employers

by being supernaturally self-employed

[simple hill]

oh and git and spit are employed by the local poundland

[rose rock]

fug prolly should've spoilered that

[simple hill]

they want to turn arcanum into an extra warehouse

[rose rock]

poundland is not exactly a supernatural employer

even if ||the manager is obviously a ghoul||

[simple hill]

capitalism however is a very hypernatural employer

I would argue

[rose rock]

something something The Syndicate's spreadsheet wizards

[simple hill]

poor giles

he can't work at poundland ||anymore with his one hand||

[rose rock]

he's british so the question is more "||how many lifetimes until the NHS gets around to helping with that||?"

at least I think the NHS is supposed to cover that

idk I ain't british

[compact copper]

https://www.reddit.com/r/huntertheparenting/s/U661YMgdoc

[rose rock]

they even have the wind-up kitten

[graceful jay]

This fanart always makes me so happy

[compact copper]

It’s so good

the Akira Cross audiolog is maybe my favorite tbh

[radiant drum]

Sad to see ||Fatigue just did that be deconfirmed.||

[waxen ice]

||"Hey lad, wanna see a dead body?"||

[compact copper]

Oh I just realized

||Matilda directed towards the secret passage to the security room to incriminate Grimal||

Also, the series takes place in 2007, Boy being around 11

SAO comes out in 2012 where boy will be 16

[fluid prism]

wait 2007?

[compact copper]

I do believe with all my heart Boy will be a massive SAO fanboy

[fluid prism]

was there a timeskip between this one and the vampire basement arc

[compact copper]

They mention TF2 is about to come out

[fluid prism]

(im not caught up)

[compact copper]

Or like

[fluid prism]

oh tf2 was 2007?

[compact copper]

Is a couple months off

Yah

[fluid prism]

i thought it came out in 2005 for some reason haha

[compact copper]

Nah October 2007

It also lines up with Markus having a DS

As 2006-2007 was the DS’s peak

[simple hill]

Door doesn’t even know about GMOD

[compact copper]

And now his Boy is gonna be quoting Kirito to him in a couple years

[simple hill]

Boy is gonna grow up playing fortnite

Or maybe tf2

[compact copper]

I mean he’s a little old for fortnite

It won’t come out until he’s in his 20s I think

[simple hill]

Yeah tf2 more likely

[compact copper]

At least battle Royal

[simple hill]

What would be Boy’s class

[compact copper]

He’s gonna be arguing on Reddit for TF2 vs Overwatch

[simple hill]

Ambi spy?

[compact copper]

Boy is absolutely a Spy main

[simple hill]

Pistolero with an ambassador used to be a viable thing

[compact copper]

Pistolero is still kinda a thing with the diamondback

[simple hill]

True

[compact copper]

Though first you have to stab people

But then you just get free crits

[simple hill]

Doesn’t feel as satisfying though to do a snap shot around a corner haha

What would Markus be

Kitten is probably medic

[compact copper]

Sniper main

His favorite activity is bullying children

[simple hill]

True

Door would be an engineer

[compact copper]

He exclusively tends to his buildings arguing “a trained technician risking his life on the frontlines is foolish and a poor use of his skill set”

[simple hill]

Yes

[bright aurora]

turtle engineer main

[simple hill]

“I must fortify our spawn”

[compact copper]

Also the scariest thing about this episode to me is that ||there’s a good chance Markus won’t be able to play TF2 anymore||

[unique ermine]

i forget i think i saw a theory about D being some kind of mummy related immortal hunter?

like an ancient hunter’s soul merging with another person’s

but can’t find anything about that kind of thing

ahh an Amenti

https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Amenti_(Mummy)

[frail citrus]

Something i did notice about that episode (blooper) || when d scores a clean hit using the dagger against the warform, he makes some pain noises as the shot cuts along with some fight grunts that suddenly cuts. Only noticed on the second or third watch ||

[weary plaza]

There was a therory about him being the other kind of mummy, as like he seems to be to old for a mortal, and the Amenti are all from 99 or laiter. though he could be a greek that had a coppy of the old spell of life that did it back during the Ptolamaic era

[graceful jay]

2006

[split raven]

Yeah there's been explicit statements of it being 2006 iirc

[weary plaza]

I am not saying that it's not, just that that all the evadance for Big-D being weird pre 99 is evadance agenst him beiong that kind of mummy, and him exiesting post 99 is evadance agenst me being the other major kind. but that still leaves the less common kinds of mummy avable. and he is definataly not the south amarican ones who don't have a fully organic body anymore

So if he is a mummy it's one fo the weird henistic ones

[compact copper]

I mean we don’t even need the series

Voy is a series writer and just said so

[graceful jay]

The Gamer Podcast and first Chapman audio log both date it as December 2006

[compact copper]

How long has it been since the Chapman interview anyway?

Like a week?

[rose rock]

long enough for Kevin to become a consulting detective so weeks to a month or two

[patent cargo]

Tbh I personally find that any theory that he's a special splat or even an important historical figure to like, diminish who he is

I'm strangely fine with him being unaging, just not any of the other baggage of too much of his skill or knowledge being supernaturally boosted beyond whatever Hunters can normally get.

If D's entire deal is he's "just" a hunter that something decided to make an eternal thorn in the side of the supernatural, I would consider that fairly reasonable.

[rose rock]

I for one am fully on-board with "Big D is old-rules Imbued Hunter"

[gusty urchin]

could you elaborate on what that is? i've seen it before but i keep forgetting

[patent cargo]

No second chances if he dies, no funny mage nonsense, no... Whatever mummies do, but a hunter who has been alive for a bit too long and seen too many things. That's my figuring.

[rose rock]

in the old rules, Hunters were Imbued, which is basically a diet version of Mage Awakening

[patent cargo]

from what I vaguely know, it was also given and not permanently gained, you could lose it.

[frail citrus]

It was a like a layer lower than that

there were outer entities granting those who were exposed to the shock of seeing the world beneath powers

[simple hill]

Ordinary man too angry to die

He kinda strikes me as being some kind of sorcerer at least though

Well a type of person who casually carries around enchanted blade isn’t your run of the mill hunter anyways

[rose rock]

sorcery sure, like Occam

[simple hill]

Yeah exactly

[rose rock]

which is its own thing distinct from the True Magic Mages do

[simple hill]

He definitely carries around magical artifacts so he’s definitely not your usual run of the mill hunter

But he’s probably not a Mage

[unique ermine]

i don’t think he’s capable of magic that isn’t like, ritual stuff anyone could in theory do with enough know how

[patent cargo]

He's probably got something going on that gives him an edge in terms of knowledge, but if it's like

80-90% of his combat ability is supernatural, I'm not fond of that idea

It makes the ||fight with Matilda way cooler if his ability to not die in melee with a werewolf in cirnos is because he's a peak human fighting machine packing the right tools for the job, rather than because he's 'cheating' the difficulty of the fight||

[unique ermine]

i think he’s above baseline in terms of biology but not much, a bit stronger, heals a bit quicker, doesn’t age, but that’s it

like iirc his chest wounds were gone by the end of the fight

[bright aurora]

he's not Dante

[unique ermine]

nvm they weren’t

but yeah i don’t think he’s capable of matching a werewolf or a high potence vampire in strength or speed and i think that’s both more interesting and more impressive

[patent cargo]

||He didn't win, yeah, just caught her off guard enough to reconsider||

[bright aurora]

he clearly considers even a Diablerie-powered Pyotr to be a credible threat to his life

he is not Dante, he is not a mage, he's not invulnerable

being sick w/ it clearly accounts for most of his chops in terms of fighting the supernatural

[patent cargo]

healing quicker is... fine. you can still die even with supernatural regeneration. probably kind of a reasonable call if he's oooooooold. but I generally prefer a theory more the closer his physical capability is just because he's Big D, Accept No Substitutes

[unique ermine]

also means that if he fucks up in a fight he’s dead or out of it, he just doesn’t die from wounds after the battle

[patent cargo]

yep. if he can just come back to life (or just about), any potential drama is dead.

[unique ermine]

really need to grab horses prophecy again

[simple hill]

his longsword just bounced off the werewolf's pelt

[patent cargo]

(if he's unaging then that also makes his age and worldliness less impressive if he faced no danger due to just never dying)

[simple hill]

so I don't even think he's supernaturally strong

only effective damage he did to the werewolf was with his presumably enchanted knife

[bright aurora]

also like

here's the thing

[unique ermine]

Thine Faeder, laid bare... desiccated on the rocks, by thy hand... The Abbot, will know. Of Two, One Falls... One Rises. Damnation. The third eye opens. His Suet will feed and warm her gullet. The Abbot, will know. The Patriarch, in mastering Luna, ends hamstrung. He will wish death upon his flesh... but no mercy shall be given, for none he hath gave. The rising three shall signal wars end. Woe and triumph. The Abbot, will know. For them... Bloodshed. Armageddon for all. Kine, Kindred, Garou, Milklings, Elohim. In the light, they all will

[patent cargo]

unaging and him standing here today being all him? that I would like

[bright aurora]

if Big D is serious about how much he cares about his children

which, by all measures, he seems to be

[simple hill]

he would have been going full throttle to save markus

[bright aurora]

if he was invulnerable he would just throw himself between his kids and every problem

he clearly cannot or does not do this

[patent cargo]

||Matilda was trying to avoid his attacks somewhat. not running for her life, but on the backfoot||

[simple hill]

and he didn't display any unusual ability against ||matilda except with his enchanted knife||

[patent cargo]

but that's probably more the sword

than him

[simple hill]

I don't think she was actually

she was trying to avoid him ||when she was still transforming||

after she ||transformed into a mighty war form she didn't really bother until she suffered actual damage from his enchanted knife, which got her to start finding a way to escape||

[unique ermine]

the ‘in mastering luna’ bit seems really relevant for the rest of the arc

[ancient crescent]

I think Imbued D still works for 'genuinely skilled'

[simple hill]

I don't even think she felt ||particularly threatened by the firearms except whatever high caliber cane rifle Blacklaw was using||

[ancient crescent]

It just means he actually has a lot more actual experience than anybody else

[patent cargo]

well, except the patriarch could.... really be goddamn anyone with enough testosterone. including someone we haven't met yet.

[unique ermine]

yeah i mean remold probably has specialty bullets in there

[patent cargo]

yeah, pretty much.

[simple hill]

WP rounds which probably counts as fire damage

[unique ermine]

seems highly unlikely they’d subvert it that way

it’s more interesting to know a character is doomed somehow

and this isn’t a setting with many happy endings

[simple hill]

in b4 ||Markus somoehow tries to resurrect Big D after his inevitable demise with foul necromancy||

[ancient crescent]

Incendiary/tracer round

So yeah, definitely

[simple hill]

but yeah my thinking is

Big D Might be a sorcerer

but is probably an ordinary human otherwise

[unique ermine]

i really don’t think he’s a mage or really any sort of magic user

[compact copper]

How is necromancy in WOD anyway?

[patent cargo]

doomed or in for a world of hurt that puts them out of the action. depending on if it is metaphorical

[simple hill]

well he's literally a magic user in the sense that he uses magic artifacts

which is more or less what I mean

[unique ermine]

death mages can do it iirc? as can giovanni vampires

[ancient crescent]

And Nagaraja

And Samedi

[compact copper]

Ok

[unique ermine]

i mean yeah he uses magic artifacts but in the way a fighter in a ttrpg has a magic sword

i wouldn’t call them a sorcerer

[ancient crescent]

And Harbingers of Skulls

[unique ermine]

they just have magic things

[ancient crescent]

there are a lot of bloodlines that can do it

[simple hill]

he also has just way way way more Lore knowledge than basically... uhhhh.... any canonical hunter I know?

he knows more about the camarilla than most camarilla vampires that's his truly weird nature

He Knows Things that he really shouldn't know wihtout being on the Red List several times over

[unique ermine]

pretty easy to explain if you go with ‘immortal who’s otherwise regular’