Hunter the Parenting Pit

[simple hill]

And she feels stifled under Renald or Renold or whatever his name is

According to Occam’s audit there’s apparently some strange unexplained budget items in her books

And she’s seen sneaking into the security room

[prisma adder]

Mhm

[neon vine]

My guess is she’s embezzling money to pay for her otaku lifestyle

[simple hill]

Hmm

Not sure

Grimaline herself doesn’t seem to really… care about the money

[prisma adder]

I feel like I just at this point have reached the conclusion that there's just not enough to go off of right now, all the threads are loose but the list of suspects isn't big

[simple hill]

She might come from@a better socio economic class than Kitten

Or well, richer anyways

[neon vine]

I mean Kitten owns a rather spacious estate

[simple hill]

True!

[prisma adder]

(the list of suspects not being big being a positive, because it means it's at least narrowed down)

[neon vine]

He has no income but his family clearly owned a respectable amount of land

[prisma adder]

I mean tbh… that can just kinda happen in the UK

[simple hill]

There are lots of

Ruined nobles

[prisma adder]

My wife had working class friends who lived at the farm with family and worked there also

Family dies, you inherit the property

Still working class

[simple hill]

And you gotta take care of the property

Which adds costs

But it’s not like you can really leave your family home and legacy either

Well you can but you might not want to

[prisma adder]

Also like it's 2005-6

Before housing went to shit

[simple hill]

Maybe

Grimaline wants access to Archive data too?

[prisma adder]

Maybe?

[simple hill]

To prove her kuei jin existence conspiracy theory?

Hmm

I wonder if she’s convinced that the vampire who attacked her is a kuei Jin

[prisma adder]

You know
They talked about the security room being well aerated? It would mean vents
Grimmal and Elise confirmed sus

[neon vine]

Poor deluded Grimal, unaware that the Kuei Jin are an extended Ravnos prank

[simple hill]

Maybe it was a banu haqim instead

[prisma adder]

Grimmal seems tiny enough to crawl through air vents

Maybe get to the archives that way

And strangle Occam

[neon vine]

Archives should be sealed, but there’s plenty of secret passages that lead elsewhere

[prisma adder]

Occam says there's no secret passages but ventilation system isn't secret

And you still probably need some level of climate control in that room

To preserve everything inside

[neon vine]

But are any of the vents large enough to fit a person?

[prisma adder]

I dunno

[simple hill]

Are vents wet

[prisma adder]

Not really

Actually usually really dry

I think?

[weary plaza]

It depends on like the kind of air vent and the local envioment and like what they are being used for, like climate control is like a difeirnt thign fomr like just ventalation

[simple hill]

Oh wait

When did spit start working for the Arcanum?

He mentions that he’s a new hire

If he’s a really recent hire, then he can’t be the ghoul

Since Kevin’s camarilla intel is probably outdated

[near schooner]

spit and git feel like they're the kinda guys that joined when brok did

[weary plaza]

I think it was like after Big D and them left, but like that was a while ago i think?

[simple hill]

Elise also switched hair ties

For unknown reasons

She started the night with a blue one

When Kitten finds her after talking to the maids in the kitchen she’s adjusting her hair and wearing a green one

At the time she is standing outside the Archives, I think

[graceful jay]

https://tenor.com/view/opera-glasses-bird-opera-glasses-bird-glasses-gif-8696371

[simple hill]

Also the elders are most certainly not ghouls

Precisely because they have archive access

If the ghoul already have archive access, camarilla would already know about every hunter in the local area

[simple hill]

So we can more or less rule out Occam, Remald, Waters, and Fatigue as being the ghouls

[candid violet]

I went back to refresh on some of the older episodes

its wild how much the visuals have improved, and they were already wildly better than TTS before

[graceful jay]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/936540294470574111/1216655977408106606/image.png?ex=66012e2d&is=65eeb92d&hm=c68ee7b1d9e383527bf38305e674a22833d8d7bd68c3175b271feafcef54eb8e&

[compact copper]

This is just the plot to who shot Mr Burns

[simple hill]

My assertions are as follows

The Ghoul cannot be anyone with regular archive access, as the Ghoul would already have acquired Hunter data from the Archives and the hunters would be getting blood hunted long before the start of this episode.

This clears Occam, Waters, Fatigue, and Remald.

The Ghoul cannot be any of Big D’s family.

This narrows the suspects to Elise, Grimal, Harry, Matilda, Amanda, Git, Spit, and Brok.

The Ghoul has no or limited ability to escape the Chapterhouse.

At least one of the wrongdoings that occurred in the episode must be from the Ghoul, otherwise, there is no case.

So the Ghoul must be someone who lacked alibi for at least one of the incidents.

This clears Brok, as he has strong alibi for both incidents (he was around Remald for the whole night)

Depending on Waters testimony, Harry may also be cleared. He had no opportunity to attack Occam, since he was tasked with carrying the safe, and then subsequently spent the whole night with Marckus until the discovery of Occam’s body. He was then seen carrying Occam away with Dr waters, and so may have been responsible for Fatigue’s death, unless Waters can vouch for him.

The ghoul may be assumed to have no allies. Thus the ghoul must be someone who acted alone for at least one of the incidents. These are:

Amanda, Matilda, Grimal, Elise, Spit, and Git

The ghoul is among these six individuals

[neon vine]

also there must be something in the chapterhouse with claws

[simple hill]

That’s the unknown factor complicating analysis

And why I didn’t say that the culprit must be someone who lacks alibi for both incidents

[neon vine]

Complicating things is the fact that the Ghoul might have access to Dominate

[simple hill]

If there is only one culprit than we can further clear Amanda and Grinal

That’s true but ghoul as I understand it can only use the discipline a very limited number of times

[slow bay]

Spit and Elise seem the most suspicious to me so far, bit those could also be unrelated and just a red herring

[simple hill]

My suspicion of Grimal’s behavior is this

She has very low opinion of her superiors and is desperate to prove that she is a capable person

[prisma adder]

Ghouls can power disciplines using the vitae of their master that's inside of the body
So yeah it's limited use

[simple hill]

Thus she is trying to play detective and find the ghoul before anyone else

This explains why she’s staking out the security room

[neon vine]

she also might be embezzling funds

[simple hill]

Yes but as noted before during her conversation with Kitten, she doesn’t seem to care too much about arcanum funding her research

[neon vine]

and trying to erase evidence of such

[simple hill]

Which makes me doubt that is her motivation

And if so she would probably be sneaking into Occam’s office

Rather than the security room

I think she and Kitten is far more alike than they care to admit

[slow bay]

Elise was definitely up to something ,but could have just been helping out Grimal or something else unrelated

[simple hill]

I do suspect that Elise may be the ghoul

What I don’t understand is why Grimal seems to have Elise’s hair ties

[slow bay]

Oh interesting

[simple hill]

Earlier in the night Elise was wearing green hair ties

Between beginning of Occam’s rites and discovery of his unconscious body, she swapped it out for a blue one

And Grimal is seen wearing a green hair tie as a wrist band during her rescue

Possible theory: she used the hair tie as a garrote to strangle Occam and then gave it to Grimal as a ‘token of friendship’ and to get rid of it as evidence

[prisma adder]

Eh idk the scene where Occam is found you can clearly see a hand did the strangling

[simple hill]

Hmm

Yeah alright maybe

[prisma adder]

The marks on his neck indicate it

A garrote would have left a line

[simple hill]

But yeah for unknown reason

Elise gave away her hair tie to Grimal

Meaning unclear

It’s probably because Grimal was feeling down tbh

So Elise gave her hair tie to Grimal as a proof of friendship

Elise is also kinda so suspicious that I feel like she must be a red herring

[slow bay]

Yeah

She so obviously does a bunch of stuff, it feels misleading

[simple hill]

I feel like she’s doing some kind of

Teenage detective drama bullshit

Where the assumption is that adults are useless so she’s going off doing her own things to solve the mystery

[slow bay]

Spit likewise feels so obviously suspicious it feels like a red herring

[simple hill]

Thing is that between the two crimes the ghoul is most likely to have perpetrated the assault on Occam

And Git had pretty limited opportunity to attack Occam

Although the possibility is still extant there

I kinda uh doubt Git is a ghoul though

Since he directly works at a day job at a camarilla front business

It just feels too obvious

I would also like to contend that only thing that could happen in this night are stuff that was brought up before in the series

So Werewolves are in because Big D discussed werewolves with Kitten before

[neon vine]

I feel like its not Git, Spit, or Brok because they started working there only recently and Kevin's intel is old

[simple hill]

But stuff like gargoyles are out

Brok also has strong alibis for both incidents

Which clears him in my eye

[neon vine]

That narrows it down to Harry, Grimal-chama-kun, and Elise. Harry has an alibi for the strangling, which leaves Elise and Grimal.

[simple hill]

Amanda and Matilda also lacks alibi

[neon vine]

I think Elise is the Ghoul but not responsible for Fatigue's death

[simple hill]

But going by Decalogue rules they are beyond suspicion

But it’s probably not purely Decalogue rule

Amanda and Matilda claims they are going to the kitchen but in fact, we know Matilda went to the security room instead

Which means there is a time period where they are unaccounted for

[neon vine]

In that case i'd say its either Matilda or Elise

[simple hill]

But yeah it’s highly likely that the ghoul is among Matilda, Amanda, Elise, and Grimal

[simple hill]

Here’s another thing that’s strange

Why does Big D immediately bring up ghoul’s possible use of discipline when finding Occam’s body

Did he notice something that can only be explained by use of discipline?

Lord fatigue is so sweet btw

He refers Grimal with chama honorific

Reminder, do not attack a trained hunter from behind if you don’t intend on killing him

That’s one hell of a death glare

No wonder Brok actually stood down

[neon vine]

She has it written on her ID

[compact copper]

Also it is kinda neat how in seems like in terms of pure durability, Brok’s got everyone beat

Dude is actually tough

It’s not just drunken bravado

[simple hill]

Yeah but literally nobody else humors her on it haha

[graceful jay]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXPUlAxopDs

[simple hill]

Maybe Brok is a Nosferatu ghoul haha

With pip in fortitude

Wonder if Big D will adopt Brok

To train him to be a Hunter

[neon vine]

Brok’s apparently always had that physique

We see a childhood photo of him, where’s he’s apparently the youngest Blacklaw child, and he’s just as wide and muscular, if not as tall

[simple hill]

True

So he naturally looks like a baboon’s arse

What a terrible fate

[neon vine]

The other Blacklaw children aren’t as ripped as he is

[compact copper]

Who’s Remold’s VA btw?

Because god he’s good

[graceful jay]

https://i.imgur.com/jlFQNmP.png

[compact copper]

Thanks

[weary plaza]

I think an in game resion why brock is so tuough is that he is just a morta with 5 stamina and the Huge perk

[prisma adder]

I wonder what type of imbued Big D is. I know very little about them, but I know there are types and each has a different set of skills

But I know they have different Edges (minor powers) related to the messenger that spoke to them that made them imbued

[simple hill]

I’m uncertain if big d is imbued

[neon vine]

His implied extreme age suggests Mummy to me

The Imbued don’t get extended lifespans

I saw a crack theory that he’s actually a Solar Exalt, and he’s certainly crazy enough but otherwise far too underpowered

[simple hill]

He might not actually be that old

Just about remold’s age

He does look unusually young for his age

[weary plaza]

The series is set post the return of osiris so liek i don't think he is a mummy as like he dose not fallow Ma-at and post retun mummy's need to do that or there sould delaminate

[neon vine]

His dialogue implies he was around when the mina was still used as a standard of measurement, lived through Prohibition, and has eaten a dodo bird at least once

The dodo went extinct in the late 1600s

[simple hill]

Huh

That is true

[neon vine]

So even if he isn’t a mummy, something is going on with his age

He claims not to be Awakened or a Ghoul

Nor some form of Faerie

[weary plaza]

Oh yea, but there are a lot of ways to be that old in oWoD

[neon vine]

Since the Kuei-Jin have been retconned, he is not one of the Wan Xian

He’s far too stable to be a Demon

[simple hill]

He can’t be a mage because he’d be eaten by paradoxes by now

If he’s that old

[weary plaza]

IDK about that, and also like there is a chance that he lied about some of that. like ya'know he is the sot of person who lies habituay liek the whole thing with him stealing Kevins Identaty becosue he could

[simple hill]

He might also just be

You know

Quirky

[neon vine]

Well, from a meta perspective the Kuei-jin are gone because they’re a pastiche of multiple horribly racist tropes

[weary plaza]

Or his agelessness (to use the like M:tA perk name) could be thurst apon him and not becosue he is some weird spalt

[neon vine]

His dialogue with Kitten indicates that he’s somewhat disdainful of the Awakened

And he’s probably not a ghoul otherwise he’d have stolen Kevin’s vitae

[weary plaza]

TBF most mages are distainfull of other mages, and you can be a mage wiht out knowing it

[prisma adder]

Big D's wibbliness about age could be because of his multiple false identities and extensive drug abuse.
Also Awakened mages don't really live very long either, they still have normal human lifespans even if using the Sphere of Life to extend youthfulness, etc

[simple hill]

Mages who live unnaturally long have to eventually cloister themselves

Because of accumulating paradox by unnaturally extending life

If big d is really hundreds of years old he should have exploded just by talking to people

If he’s a mage that is

[weary plaza]

We think that if Big D is as old as he says he is half the time, then it's becosue he did somthign liek find the fountian of youth or like something curesed him wiht long life

[neon vine]

I mostly bring up mage because its one of the things he explicitly denied to Kevin

[simple hill]

Yeah

[weary plaza]

I don't think you can take that as like nessacaraly being the truth

[prisma adder]

I need to rewatch things but Big D doesn't seem to be much of a liar, he's just not an open book about what he knows

I mean

[neon vine]

I have no evidence to suggest that

[prisma adder]

I mean that in regards to the main characters btw, he doesn't seem to be much of a liar to the other main characters

[weary plaza]

I think that like the fact you had to calrifie that he is not that much of a liar is like damming on it's like own for his truthfulness

[simple hill]

Big D describes himself as the master of the ancient art of lying

Still I agree he’s probably not a mage

[prisma adder]

🤷 I dunno, just when it comes to his family it seems to be a bigger issue that he just doesn't say things in general
Which does mirror a bit his character as the emperor from TTS. His constant omission of facts end up creating more problems than his imagined outcomes for sharing them

[weary plaza]

yeah if e is a mage it's some weird form of sleepwalker most likely, though his not yet ex husband is a sorcerer so like he might be one of those in the vaguest sence

[neon vine]

What’s the argument against him being one of the Amenti again?

Because a lot of his pitch to Kevin sounds like a Bardo recruitment speech

[prisma adder]

Him knowing about Golconda is weird af

[weary plaza]

They got killed off by the meta plaot when Osrius came back and returnd humanity to the children of osrius, and there shaterd souls have been used to ""fix"" up the M:tR mummys

Ham: Claimer of Bones ↩️

[Reply to:](#1216227286177808584 message) What’s the argument against him being one of the Amenti again?

[prisma adder]

However we have to still remember one key thing: the writers are using 5th edition metaplot for the vast majority I think

[weary plaza]

I don't think mummy's exiest in 5e

[neon vine]

Yeah but 5th edition is mostly Vampire stuff

[prisma adder]

All that says is that the chances of mummy stuff being involved is close to 0

Which I imagine is the case

[weary plaza]

But yeah the old mummys became thease
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Tem-akh_(MTR)

[simple hill]

He could be a ghoul who doesn’t form blood bonds

And that he’s got another vampire chained up near Kevin as a source

[prisma adder]

Maybe

Though can humans be immune to blood bonds? Wait isn't that a thing imbued can do

Resisting domination of supernatural entities

[weary plaza]

you could just take it as a perk as a mortal

[neon vine]

If you take the vitae of a vampire against its will you can become an unbound ghoul

[weary plaza]

the imunity to blood bonds at least

[simple hill]

Yeah there are canonical examples of ghouls resistant to blood bonds

[prisma adder]

Ah alright

I mean he could also easily take vitae drink and then kill the domitor

[simple hill]

There is a second inquisition agent who is a ghoul with that ability

[neon vine]

Dracula started out that way until he traded up to full Kindred

[prisma adder]

Another crackpot theory
He's a revenant

[weary plaza]

Or he has True Faith in somthign weird

[simple hill]

It’s possible

That he’s a rev

[prisma adder]

He doesn't give me true faith vibes…

[neon vine]

Maybe yeah

[prisma adder]

Occam does

Occam has true faith and sorcerer vibes

[neon vine]

I think Kevin would have noticed something about D’s blood if he was a revenant

[prisma adder]

Hmm true, vitae is particularly "tastier" to vampires and revenants make their own

[deft urchin]

Well dmt might have covered that up

It would explain the bag of vitae Kevin had at the break if Big D was a revenant that makes his own

[simple hill]

Maybe it was lemon scented

Drinking from blood bags don’t feel as good for the vampire as drinking from the source right

[weary plaza]

it's less filling IWRC depending on a lot of factors

But like also oWoD is a vary inconsistent setting like the whole thign of the universe being amde by the wyld Weaver and Wyrm, but also cristian hell being a vary real place

Aong wiht the cristian god who made the universe

[prisma adder]

I think the hierarchy of taste for blood is
Elder vitae, vitae, human blood, old human blood, animal blood

[simple hill]

Maybe the Christian god made the wyrm to fuck with people

Can vampires be blood bonded by being fed the blood of vampires of higher generation

[neon vine]

What if thr Christian God is actually Lucifer

[prisma adder]

Yes

A 13th generation fledgling could theoretically blood bond a 6th generation elder

[simple hill]

I see

So like if your generation is less than 1/2 of the bondee?

[prisma adder]

Nah

Any generation can bond any generation

Thin-bloods can't do it though, at least in V20

[neon vine]

Even Caine can be blood bound

[prisma adder]

It does say Caine was bound to the Crone, who taught him how to make blood bonds, in the whole vampire myth

[prisma adder]

From this, technically high generations can't blood bond, but not because of the generation just the condition of thin bloodedness (14th generation is usually thin blooded, 15th is always thin blooded)

[simple hill]

What’s the effect of being blood bound on vampires though

I can’t imagine an elder is gonna listen to a fledgling even if they are bound

[prisma adder]

It's the same as bonding a human

[simple hill]

Huh

[prisma adder]

It's addicting and makes you either be deeply in love or deeply loyal

[simple hill]

So it’s possible to resist with enough resolve

[prisma adder]

Temporarily

[neon vine]

Yeah and if the bond has gone too long without being renewed

[simple hill]

But you would feel like shit

[prisma adder]

Yeah bonds need to be maintained also

But they're sticky, a full bond takes years to wear off

[simple hill]

I see

[prisma adder]

Bonds have 3 stages based on how many times you've drank someone's vitae
1 drink is weak and you have only strong feelings for the kindred, you might frequent spaces they're in more often or have dreams about them
2 you are becoming loyal or in love and you need to actively use wp to take actions against your regnant/domitor
3 is just complete devotion

And taking actions against them is really hard

[simple hill]

I see

[prisma adder]

At 3 a regnant/domitor can use Dominate on their thrall through voice alone

Without needing eye contact

Of course generation still is a limit on Dominate, at least, even with a bond

I'm of course talking V20 stuff, idk how blood binding works in V5

Which is going to be my constant disclaimer

[simple hill]

There are nosferatu who can actually come off as being handsome apparently

I’m seeing some char art of this canonical nos and she just looks like a tiefling

Horner, purple skinned, with flakes of black scales but otherwise quite handsome

And then there’s a nosferatu who just straight up looks like a normal human with a sexy lip scar but he doesn’t count because he was a subject of tzimiscr flesh sculpting

[simple hill]

Btw would throwing a shoe at the doorway to test for invisible vampire actually work

Because I though obfuscate isn’t actually invis but actually a mental trick

So it would work by making humans consider the place vampire is standing not suspicious

[prisma adder]

If you take actions that draw attention to yourself, it can break the effect, including picking up a boot, which I imagine he did just to terrify kitten (yes I'm calling him by the tts name because I'm blanking rn)
Obfuscate has an added effect of leaving mortals with a bit of an eerie feeling

[simple hill]

Kitten’s name in HtP is also kitten I think

Ah so it broke when Pyotr caught the boot

[prisma adder]

Yeah
Also I imagine he thought to throw it there because the general area made him feel uneasy because of the Obfuscate

Obfuscate is a really weird to explain power lmao

You know when you see a dark corridor or alleyway and you feel like there's something wrong there and you get scared/anxious and refuse to go there
That's kinda how I imagine it works.
People either avoid looking at where you are or avoid even getting close when you're using effects like unseen presence and vanish

[simple hill]

Yeah makes sense

Seems wild that obfuscate works through camera

[prisma adder]

It depends if you pick the merit or power in V5. It usually works on camera to the direct observers, but then any saved footage will show you later unless you have those

(i play a lot of characters with obfuscate, it's my favourite discipline)

[candid violet]

doesnt 5th have a thing about vampires and recordings either way?

some sort of natural instinct / supernatural ability to dip out of frame?

[prisma adder]

I don't know

[simple hill]

Yeah 3rd level obfuscate have ghost in the machine ability

Which specifically allows obfuscate to work through camera

[prisma adder]

Yeah

And V20 has a Nosferatu merit or a combination discipline with Auspex for it

[simple hill]

What can result in lowering or raising humanity score?

[neon vine]

Lasombra also have an innate invisibility to cameras

[simple hill]

Lasombra doesn’t cast a reflection at all

[prisma adder]

Uh that's a difficult question to answer because it's really different between V5 and V20

I think V5 has a system where you keep your humanity through personal philosophies that keep you grounded to who you were and people

Tenets and touchstones I think

[weary plaza]

Yeah like it used to be like a set of like miestones that would force you to have a morals cheak if you did them, like you could go from 10 to 9 by acadentaly harming someone, to 1 to 0 requiering you to do an atrocity. and gainign humanity was ike relay hard out side of liek specal thigns like the Children of osirus's special dicaplen's higher level thing of letting a vamp walk in the sun for a fw hours and them getting back a point of humanity for every hour they do so

But the children of osirus are no longer vampires by 06

[weak phoenix]

So, anybody else think that the second episode might have a flashback with Fatigue? Specifically, flashbacks with the security lads.

I'm not going to be surprised if the security lads, especially Brock, saw Fatigue as this grandpa figure.

And Brock's anger was on the exact same level as Occam's when the reveal happened.

[simple hill]

fatigue seems to have been liked by everyone

which makes his death very strange if it was an intentional killing

he wasn't a threat to anyone

and killing him would piss everyone off

[weak phoenix]

Well, it's either two things then.

An accident that went absolutely bugfuck nuts.

Or it being done for fun.

[simple hill]

yeah

either the killer is so sure about their own victory they don't care

or it was an accident

[weak phoenix]

Yep.

That honesty has been a running theme in the show "Arrogance ≠ Victory".

[neon vine]

Unless you’re D

[weak phoenix]

D is probably an exception because he's been arrogant but in a non-malicious way.

In contrast to that, Pytor. Yeah, Pytor died because he let the power of his generation go to his head, acted like a sadistic bastard, and then broke down after Kitten managed to emotionally wound him.

[graceful jay]

https://youtu.be/gCpukX-eIGM?si=hZXtrnjBitoAFtyY

[weak phoenix]

...Is that what Big D was seeing when he was on DMT during the cave fight?

[neon vine]

When’s the next ep?

[graceful jay]

Cannot even begin to promise a date yet

[surreal crown]

When is the episode after the next?

[graceful jay]

Kills you

[surreal crown]

https://tenor.com/view/kaboom-boom-nuke-nuclear-bomb-gif-20734003

[weak phoenix]

Sierra, no!

Ah man, we were this close to 'No magical death accidents' for the past three weeks.

[simple hill]

It was a quick death

But for them subjectively the pain must have been agonizingly long

[weak phoenix]

Yeah.

...Dibs on their magical skull collection.

[surreal crown]

https://tenor.com/view/skulls-gif-13494954

[weak phoenix]

Oh no, Sierra's skost has come back to haunt me.

Be gone, Spirit! I have fair claim on the magical skull collection!

[simple hill]

I like that the issue of bug d and Markus is that

Big D never tells Markus what Markus needs to know to avoid danger

But also if Markus actually does strictly as told with no deviation it wouldn’t cause trouble despite his lack of information

And neither of them are willing to admit that their part of the problem

[weak phoenix]

Yeah.

Also, was rewatching the Interrogation episode.

Is the Reagent just indisposed right now?

Or are things just dysfunctional for that little area of Cammy control?

[simple hill]

Reagent isn’t indisposed

She’s on phone during blender crusade

She’s just incompetent

Tremere blood bond means she’s not vulnerable to traditional vampiric Klingon promotion

So she’s been getting by despite her utter incompetency

Besides she’s in control of a section of NORFOLK

So she’s basically in vampiric boonies

[weak phoenix]

Oh yeah.

It's funny how everybody is fighting over the district of North-Norfolk.

[neon vine]

Given what we know of her she probably still thinks of it as East Anglia

[simple hill]

Yeah so she’s in a non-competitive turf while inside an unusually non competitive clan

[weak phoenix]

Oh yeah, Kevin said stuff about Boudicca.

[simple hill]

She does iceni cosplay

She doesn’t know what a phone is

[neon vine]

The funny thing is that its impossible for her to actually be Iceni

[weak phoenix]

I wonder if she also thinks that she might have to fight the Romans?

[simple hill]

Or how security cameras work

She’s a cosplayer

As a Tremere there’s no way she’s actually that old

[neon vine]

The founding of Clan Tremere postdates the destruction of the Iceni by a millennium

[simple hill]

The first Tremere post date Boudicca by a thousand years

[neon vine]

So she’s like one of those victorian scholars who liked cosplaying as like ancient egyptians or some shit

[simple hill]

Yep

Obnoxious cultural imperialist

[weary plaza]

Yeah the Tremere are a vary new clan, like they are fomr the 1500s IWRC

[weak phoenix]

How old is the Reagent then?

[simple hill]

Probably only about 100-200

Tremere dating is hard

[neon vine]

From late middle ages to regency era from what it looks like

[simple hill]

Hmm

Yeah

That does sound about right

[weary plaza]

Being a branch of the Order of Hermies who tried to become imortal by doing a special kind of diabery

[neon vine]

Anybody under a century probably wouldn’t make Regent/Primogen in the European Camarilla

[simple hill]

The mage founder of Tremere used a magic ritual to diablerize saulot of clan Salubri

The most ‘humanist’ of vampire clans

[neon vine]

And since she still uses the term east anglia its unlikely she’s as recent as victorian

My guess is Elizabethan Era

[weak phoenix]

So, since the Reagent is incompetent.

[simple hill]

Poor Salubri though

They were too good for this night

[neon vine]

All according to Saulot’s plan

[weary plaza]

They were the nicest vampires

[simple hill]

What even is his plan though

[neon vine]

I unno golconda shit

[weak phoenix]

Are the other's in line just letting the Reagent set herself up to be 'disciplined'?

[simple hill]

1. Let himself be eaten
2. Take over a new clan
   ….?????
   Profit…?

[neon vine]

Well all her subordinates should be blood bound so probably not consciously

[simple hill]

Tremere enforce extremely powerful blood bone to everyone beneath them

[weary plaza]

Yeah the Tremere are all blod bonded at least partialy

[weak phoenix]

Oh yeah, the blood bond thing.

Who would be above the Reagent then?

[neon vine]

Polydora seems pretty heavily lost in the sauce so its likely any immediate childe of the Regent is regularly blood bound

[simple hill]

So all her subordinates are more or less loyal to her unless they have unusually high resolve

[weary plaza]

Do they still have the bit of lore whare its a blod bond to the seven elders?

[neon vine]

Depends if you’re talking Camarilla hierarchy or Tremere

[simple hill]

She’s be blood bound to whoever is her sire

Or blood bound to Tremere elders in Vienna

She’d certainly be bound to the founder

[neon vine]

Nominally she should answer to the Prince too but Tremere clan loyalty functionally supercedes that

[simple hill]

Depends on the Prince anyways

Since Prince only have authority that she can enforce

[neon vine]

Tremere and Nosferatu have some of the strongest clan loyalties among the Camarilla

[candid violet]

I hope so - its a fun connection to the Ars Magica house

[neon vine]

Prince is in Norwich

[simple hill]

The Prince is probably a lot more competent

[weak phoenix]

Huh, I wonder if the Prince is just waiting for an opportunity to remove them. Because the Reagent is sorta like moving the Cammy in Norfolk into a potential problem.

[neon vine]

According to Kevin the Regent is trying to suck up to the prince

[simple hill]

Since the Sabbat call her a stunning example of degeneracy I’m assuming she pursues progressive for vampire politics

[weak phoenix]

Like Kevin said that they didn't know how to do the taxes without the tax man getting attention.

And he left and since he was the most competent to do the taxes.

I feel like that's gonna blow up eventually.

[simple hill]

The Tremere chantry doesn’t seem to be doing well

They don’t have the money to set up basic defenses

[neon vine]

I mean they’re in North Norfolk

[simple hill]

A Hunter just walked into their ward

[weary plaza]

There are a lot of ways for a pince to ""leagaly"" make a vampire they don't like just go away

ATL (Secret Union Knight) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1216227286177808584 message) Huh, I wonder if the Prince is just waiting for an opportunity to remove them. Because the Reagent i…

[weak phoenix]

Oh yeah, the Sabbat are running around and the Anarch's are doing stuff.

[simple hill]

And they don’t even have security cameras around!

Or, they do, but they ran out of money to maintain them

Which is worse

[weak phoenix]

And D managed to literally subvert Chapman because the Reagent didn't renew the blood bond.

[neon vine]

The Regent seems to be allocating all the Chantry's funds to whatever the hell is going on underneath the 99 Pence Store

[simple hill]

Yeah the Tremere chantry of the region is stunning example of vampiric incompetence

[weak phoenix]

I wonder how many other ghouls in Norfolk haven't gotten their blood bond renewed.

[neon vine]

Ironically this should isolate them from the worst of the Second Inquisition

Were it not for D

[simple hill]

Yeah haha

Im also fairly certain the Prince is far more competent

Considering the Sabbat consider her the greater threat compared to Anarchs

[weak phoenix]

Because if it's the exact situation like Chapman's. Uh, that's gonna be a lot of turn coats or rogue ghouls eventually.

[neon vine]

I wonder what the clan comp of the Anarchs is

[simple hill]

Or masquerade breaches as ghouls go into frenzy

[neon vine]

I'm kinda hoping Tzimisce

[simple hill]

Clan brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrruhah

[weak phoenix]

Also that.

[neon vine]

Given where exactly the story is located its possible that the 99p Store might be sitting atop a defiled White Howlers Caern

[weak phoenix]

I feel like those last three words are very bad.

Is that bad?

[neon vine]

I'll give you three worse words: Black Spiral Dancers

[simple hill]

Werewolves

[weary plaza]

Carn is not bad it's just the name for a werewolf place of power

[weak phoenix]

Oh.

[weary plaza]

But yeah the white howlers danced the back spiral and got uber tainted by the wyrm

[simple hill]

White howlers were tribes of werewolves that used to live in the area

[weak phoenix]

Ohhhhh.

[simple hill]

And then they went mad and became tainted black spiral dancers

[weak phoenix]

Oh no

[simple hill]

And Big D does mention the legends of the uh

Black wolf

[neon vine]

The Black Spiral Dancers are Werewolf Sabbat but worse because they actually have like metaphysical evil inside them instead of just being fascists

[weak phoenix]

Yeah.

Also, another question. That whole thing with horse and boy, what exactly is an oracle in that context?

[weary plaza]

And they make there carns in/into vary nasty places, like one of there largest is in Prypit

[neon vine]

And the attack on Fatigue is just the right combination of subtle and violent to be right up their alley

[simple hill]

Technically though white howlers lived in Scotland though

The Boy might be a mage, I guess?

[neon vine]

Boy might be a Changeling

[simple hill]

Or that

[weary plaza]

Or even a Kinfolk

[neon vine]

Gaian Werewolves are rarely subtle enough to handle infiltration

Black Spiral Dancers OTOH, are insidious

[weary plaza]

Glass walkers are preaty good at it, and they also do the best in citys

[simple hill]

World of darkness term for an Oracle is for legendary mage bodhisattvas

[neon vine]

yeah but this is rural england

[simple hill]

But boy probably isn’t that

[neon vine]

Which means the likely tribes are either the Fianna or the Get of Fenris

or the aforementiond Black Spiral Dancers

[weary plaza]

Fianna do liek to be tricksters at times for the whimsy of it all

[neon vine]

yeah but uh, what we saw in the chapterhouse wasn't whimsy

it was a disturbing mix of brutality and calculation

assuming it was a werewolf

we do know that something with claws is in the chapterhouse

[simple hill]

Maybe that was just Brok

[weary plaza]

Depends on your ideas of whimsy like Red Cap would think that was whismical

[weak phoenix]

Yeah, Fae can be utterly terrifying bastards.

Carry iron and breadcrumbs with you at all times

[simple hill]

Surely the Arcanum would have detected a literal clawed werewolf war form walking around before

Well

[neon vine]

Could be in Glabro Form

[simple hill]

Actually I guess werewolves do exert their weirdness censor

[neon vine]

Glabro would be small enough to fit in the secret passageways

yet large and powerful enough to rip Fatigue apart

[simple hill]

Regular mortals who see werewolves can’t remember the experience clearly right

Aside from it being terrifying

[neon vine]

yeah they usually interpret it as like, a bear attack

[weary plaza]

The Dellrium is a vary messy kind of it as like it generlay involves a lot of scremaing and crying. but also how much you can remember is baised on your willpower

[neon vine]

and probably whether or not you actually expect a werewolf

[simple hill]

It does kinda seem like that’s what’s happening to Spit?

But he was suffering from a panic attack earlier

[neon vine]

Spit's been wigging out since the Vault

[weak phoenix]

Well, whatever killed Fatigue managed to piss off a chapter-house with three people who can practically be powerhouses in their own right.

[simple hill]

So hard to tell if his current panic attack is a continuation of that or caused by werewolf delirium

Well if it’s a werewolf with control over their powers my money’s still on the werewolf

[near schooner]

I'm kinda curious what creature, if not Spit, would leave him alive and escape after tearing Fatigue in half

[weak phoenix]

Could be both.

[simple hill]

So I’m guessing it’s not a werewolf with control over their powers

[weak phoenix]

The panic attacks from spit probably were at the level of "I don't understand what that was but I'm starting to calm down" and then the lockdown happened.

[weary plaza]

Ehh on the WoD power scale a week werewolf can easly tear apart a group of powerfull vamps

[gusty urchin]

why not?

[neon vine]

Well there actually seems to be deliberate planning in this attack

[simple hill]

The boy doesn’t exactly strike me as a legendarily powerful mage

[neon vine]

Especially if the secret passageways were used

[weak phoenix]

I mean neither does D strike anybody as a legendary hunter.

But the man managed to kill a Methuselah with his family.

And made references to killing Houdini.

[weary plaza]

though if there is pentax involment in the area it might be a Famor

[neon vine]

D's strength as a hunter probably heavily depends on what artifacts he has on him at the time

he's got that probably magic sword with him

[weak phoenix]

I don't want to know the circumstances of that.

[simple hill]

He’s got that cursed blade

[weary plaza]

Famori an easly pass as human (depending on a ot of factors) and most of them can mince a mortal if the mortal is lucky

[neon vine]

There's probably at least one Fomori at O'Tolley's

[weak phoenix]

Uh, that reminds me.

[weary plaza]

Consitering that working or eating there can make you into one yeah,

[weak phoenix]

Considering who exactly owns O' Tolley's ||how much danger are Door and Boy in for Wyrm corruption||?

[simple hill]

They don’t have wives so they won’t commit marital abuse at least

[neon vine]

Depends hou much they eat

[weak phoenix]

So, if they eat a burger it's not ideal but not that bad?

[neon vine]

One burger once in a while isn't likely to do much other than make them more foul tempered

a binge OTOH, could do everything from making them into an addict to eating their soul from the inside out

[simple hill]

It might also make them more lethargic and less ambitious

Apparently and inexplicably the chain is very popular

[neon vine]

Pentex loves making Fomori but ultimately their goal is to just make the world a little bit darker inch by inch

[weary plaza]

Or even making you able to just CW disgusting ||vomit flesh desolving worms||

[neon vine]

Door also might be going to O'Tolley's to blow it up

[simple hill]

Don’t they also mix ||human meat || into the patties sometimes

Yeah considering door is a master of double meanings

He might just be going to blow it up

Since he got blue balled with destroying the arcanum

[weak phoenix]

But he promised Boy burgers.

The O'Tolley's will probably get blown up because somebody does something there to put Boy in danger.

[simple hill]

They’ll grill burgers on the flaming remains of the building

[weak phoenix]

Or maybe it'll get shoot up? Ya know, on account of the second deck M60's.

How the hell he was able to get those

[simple hill]

Same place he got the mines

[neon vine]

from his old mining days

[simple hill]

Ahh, I remember this story from a hunter game

The hunters (Americans) followed this magic passageway

[weak phoenix]

I wonder if he stole those, bought them off from supply, or leveraged a couple contacts from his mining days.

[simple hill]

And when they emerged they found themselves, to their horror, in RURAL ENGLAND

they were all heavily armed, and a constable on a bike rolled by, stopped, and asked them if they had a permit for those guns

So this hunter stepped forward and started unloading his entire veritable arsenal of firearms and magic weapons to the constable

Who eventually was holding them all in a pile using both arms

Constable: “uhhh… any… anything else?”

Hunter: “just one more” punches the constable in the face while the constable cannot defend himself

[graceful jay]

hi i'm just home from work but please remember that W5 completely re-did the lore for werewolf

White Howlers aren't from Scotland anymore, the Fianna aren't a tribe, and neither technically are the Get (they are the Cult of Fenris, an antagonist faction)

this is not to confirm or deny any theories but this is just me correcting about general wod stuff

[neon vine]

ah

I was not familiar with W5 lore

Wait so where are the White Howlers from now?

[graceful jay]

They aren't

Tribes are no longer tied to specific ethnic groups or geographical areas

[neon vine]

ah

[weary plaza]

Honestaly a vary good thing TBH

[graceful jay]

yeah

[neon vine]

that does erode my Black Spiral Dancer theory a bit

are those guys still around in W5?

[graceful jay]

yes

[weary plaza]

After some inturnal debate we do think that a Famri is more likly then a werewolf if there is asecond supernatural thing skulking around in the chancery

[neon vine]

oh?

[simple hill]

Famri?

[weary plaza]

Famori*

[graceful jay]

Formori

[neon vine]

Fomori

[simple hill]

a fomori is lrking around the chancery?

[weary plaza]

Yeah we do know there is an O'Tooly's around in the area and there are a lot of them that can easly pass as a mortal and Pentax dose like to get rid of those who dig into deeply into there secreats wich is like what teh Arcenium is all about

[weak phoenix]

Maybe somebody in the Arcanum accidentally made Pentex think they were snopping around?

[weary plaza]

Well if it was not the ghoul that gilled Forague

[neon vine]

Makes sense

though IMO it'd be strange to introduce the Fomori before introducing proper Werewolf stuff

[simple hill]

maybe Brok and his boys are regular patrons of Pentex

[neon vine]

Probably

[simple hill]

err O'tolleys

[neon vine]

the 99P store certainly seems as depressing as a Pentex business usually is

[weary plaza]

Yeah they do seem like the tipe, espicay Brok

[weak phoenix]

Okay, there's that.

[simple hill]

but i'm taking away Door's american previleges

what kind of red blooded american would eat british burgers

[neon vine]

though the Camarilla usually avoids playing around with the Wyrm, if only through coincidence, since that's more of the Sabbat's deal(and even then only a subset)

[weak phoenix]

But I don't think the Security Lads eating the demon burgers would lead to Pentex trying to get rid of the chapter-house.

[simple hill]

maybe they ate so much that they got possessed by a demon

[weak phoenix]

Unless Brock accidentally said somethinf that got picked up and then misinterpreted.

[neon vine]

well Brok's apparently always been a vile shithead ever since childhood

[weak phoenix]

He showed anger at Fatigue's death.

[neon vine]

which makes his status as wyrm corrupted unlikely, as he may be Just Like That

[simple hill]

well it's not gonna be Brok that's responsible for either of the killings anyways

[weary plaza]

I mean you can be born a Famori, there is a Bane that like just dose that

[simple hill]

he's got alibis for both

[weak phoenix]

Which means Brock still has some redeeming qualities.

[neon vine]

Yeah but he doesn't really scan as a Ferectoi

[simple hill]

hmm

[neon vine]

He's the wrong type of smug

[simple hill]

what's the possibility that a ghoul engineered Fatigue's death precisely to create an alibi for himself

[weary plaza]

Fair it's been a while seince we botherd to look at the Famori book

[weak phoenix]

That would honestly make the ghoul's job harder.

[neon vine]

Ferectoi are smug because they know they're better than you and they'll spend every moment making sure you know it, since they're often Pentex trust fund babies

Brok is smug because he's stronger than you, not ironically because he comes from wealth

for all his apparently wealthy upbringing Brok looks, acts, and thinks like a guy who grew up working class

[weak phoenix]

Probably acts that way because he's friends with Git and Spit.

And a part of himself recognizes that acting like a smug trust fund kid would alienate the only two friends he has.

[simple hill]

so here's something to consider

Blacklaw's uhhh truth detector

it actually works

we can see that it stops zapping you if you tell the truth while locked up

which means Amanda refused to tell the truth about something

[neon vine]

hmmmm

[simple hill]

which is an inconclusive result but still a notable one

[weak phoenix]

I mean would you want to the tell truth to a crazy Belgian man after finding out that Vampires exist?

How would you know that he wasn't a vampire?

[simple hill]

well motivations are unclear

[neon vine]

she also blurts out "baba yaga"

[simple hill]

the question asked was "are you in cahoots with Big D"

she did not provide an answer

[neon vine]

who is the Methuselah who sired the entirety of the modern clan Nosferatu

[simple hill]

well baba yaga is also just a pretty common boogeyman name

[weak phoenix]

Yeah, that could be coincidental.

[simple hill]

well no, not in cahoots with big d

brok was staring at Elise, Grimal, and Markus as he said "you"

Since the cook is probably not in cahoots with Markus

it's possible that she was actually cooperating with Elise and Grimal

and preferred staying silent and letting the test be inconclusive rather than admit that

[weak phoenix]

So, Elise and Grimal were probably stealing money because Grimal is still trying to figure out that thing with the Japanese vampires.

Cook was probably helping them.

[weary plaza]

Or she just like panicked and babbled about other thigns do to being tortured and trying to get it to stop

[weak phoenix]

Also that.

But then the lie detector stopped after Grimal called Remold's face a "baboon's ass".

[simple hill]

yep

admitting random truth actually gets the machine to stop

which makes me feel as if she just stayed silent

hmm

no

Remold claims that she was clearly lying

which means she did say something

but it wasn't the truth

[weak phoenix]

Hey, so, I gotta ask.

Besides the ghoul and the potential were.

Uh, what if what tore apart Fatigue came from the archives?

[weary plaza]

...

Yeah that could fit, and it dose widen up what it could be.

[weak phoenix]

I'm asking that because somebody pointed out that there were Unseelie puppets in the archive.

And did anybody closed it up after they got the box?

[weary plaza]

They could have a Bygone of some kind in there

[weak phoenix]

And what is that?

Oh, and apparently somebody spotted one of the puppets being outside of the archive?

[weary plaza]

It's the cetchall term for bascially any mythic monster or being that has troubble exiesting on consessus reality, Yeti's dragons, Centuars, Grays ect

[weak phoenix]

Oh okay.

So, uh, instead of it being a Were.

There may or may not actually be a murderous thing on the loose.

And the scratch marks on the door are red herrings then.

[simple hill]

we did see a caveman in there

[weak phoenix]

Oh yeah, but he was still on Ice.

[simple hill]

huh

you are right

there's the puppet

and it disappears

[weak phoenix]

Holy shit.

Oh this is bad.

[weary plaza]

Yeah that dose seem like a good candidate for at least one fo the attacks

[weak phoenix]

If it was there since the beginning.

Then who exactly let it out?

Because Occam was with Grimal and Elise before everything went to shit.

Only Dr. Waters, Lord Fatigue, and Remold could open the archives besides Occam.

[simple hill]

strong likelihood that secret passage exists between Occam's office and Staff break room

[neon vine]

We do see a preserved Dragon head

and something in a cage

[simple hill]

wait a minute

Big D came from the space beneath the stairs

Where the heck does that lead

[neon vine]

yeah he's been in the secret passages

[simple hill]

oh, and Grimal mentions during Markus goes Pubbing episode that she has a habit of crawling in the ventilation shafts

[weak phoenix]

...

[neon vine]

hmmmm

[simple hill]

so that might be what she was doing in security room

[neon vine]

which implies that Grimal is the ghoul

[weak phoenix]

If she's the ghoul then she didn't kill Fatigue then.

[neon vine]

she is strong enough to break Git's tailbone with a Yaoi paddle

[weak phoenix]

Because, ya know, she was being interrogated by Remold when the screaming started.

[neon vine]

but not strong enough to break free of Brok's grip

[weary plaza]

That's normal for those

Ham: Claimer of Bones ↩️

[Reply to:](#1216227286177808584 message) she is strong enough to break Git's tailbone with a Yaoi paddle

[simple hill]

I don't believe Grimal is a ghoul

with how open Markus was to her she could've gotten the Hunters killed years aog

[weary plaza]

Like broken bones were part of why they got baned

[weak phoenix]

Unless it happened very recently.

[simple hill]

then Kevin wouldn't have intel on her

[neon vine]

also Dominate could be at play

[simple hill]

I guess she could've been playing the long game

[weak phoenix]

Yeah, but Kevin only told D that there was a ghoul though.

[simple hill]

and hoping to gain archive access

or was still hoping to not get her friends killed despite being blood bonded

[weak phoenix]

Yeah.

[simple hill]

Honestly I'd rather believe that she or Elise is an unseelie court agent

[weak phoenix]

So, we have a ghoul.

Grimal climbing in the vents.

And a potential murder puppet(s) on the loose.

[weary plaza]

Ehh oWoD changlings don't relay go for that sort of thing relay, unless they are like ebing used for glamour

[weak phoenix]

Ya know, I actually forgot to ask. But since it's an Unseelie puppet. Can they actually do anything to harm someone?

Or do they need a command?

[weary plaza]

I mean it's the nightmre of the creepy puppet made manifest so like it's anyones guess

[weak phoenix]

True.

[simple hill]

they also show up in Remold family photo

[weary plaza]

is that a young Big D on the side closeest to markus?

[simple hill]

big d don't have cleft chin

so no, that is not big d

[neon vine]

no i just think there are elder Blacklaw siblings

Remold mentions being a grandfather and Brok is absolutely not married

[simple hill]

something doesn't add up

15 chalices, one for each person

16 afterwards

[weak phoenix]

What.

Then's who the 16th?

[simple hill]

I don't understand why anyone would

bring an extra goblet

[neon vine]

Spit

Spit gave his goblet all weirdlike

[gusty urchin]

how many characters are there at the start of the episode?

[simple hill]

15

one goblet at the start for each person

16, after Occam's body is discovered

for a mysterious reason, culprit added an extra goblet

or Occam added an extra goblet

[weary plaza]

The map and locaion list shows 15 known persons in the chapter house

[gusty urchin]

so why would there be an extra one?
maybe the ghoul intended to swap their goblet with the 16th, but occam interrupted them

[simple hill]

perhaps

but then occam would know who the culprit is already... unless the ghoul dominated someone to do it

[weary plaza]

I defintaly think there is somthign fishy goign on beyound the goul

[simple hill]

there is the mystery of the Seelie dolls

unseelie*

[gusty urchin]

he could have been ko'd from behind and not seen them

[near schooner]

small question, but what is an unseelie doll/puppet?
I know what unseelie are, but what are the puppets supposed to be

[gusty urchin]

what's going on with the dolls?

[weak phoenix]

They're moving in and out of the archive.

[weary plaza]

Problay a chimarical beast of some kind

PoolNoodle ↩️

[Reply to:](#1216227286177808584 message) small question, but what is an unseelie doll/puppet?
I know what unseelie are, but what are the pupp…

[weak phoenix]

One of them was shown watching the Family fighting with Blacklaw and the security lads.

[simple hill]

and disappeared when Occam showed up

[weak phoenix]

Along with that, the Archives were locked up.

While it was there.

[simple hill]

so it's been out

and skulking about

for god knows how long

[weak phoenix]

Not just it, there were like five other dolls in the archive.

[simple hill]

maybe it was looking for a way into the archive to rescue its friends

also i'll note that just because the puppets have medallions of the unseelie court on it doesn't mean it's actually unseelie

maybe the medallions on the puppets on the archive are keeping them sealed

[weak phoenix]

True very true.

[simple hill]

the ones in blacklaw family photo doesn't seem to wear them

[weak phoenix]

Yeah

But it's honestly freaky that thing was watching.

Because if it was out then what else was out.

And besides that, who let it out? Or who let it get out?

[simple hill]

again, there was a time period when they were out of the archives

we see them outside the archives in Blacklaw family photo

perhaps... not all of them were sealed away

but yeah I do feel like these puppets gotta be important

i also like the implication that Remold... also goes hunting supernatural creatures in violation of Arcanum rules

with his sons

[weary plaza]

If the puppets are fairy related there could be alot of weird things they could be doing ti mess wiht folks heads and give them nightmares about whatever feeds them the best. or even Fatague could ahve been the goul and let one out to cover his tracks and it killed him becosue fairies

[simple hill]

a fae that can do that much damage to him would be uhhhh redcaps?

[weak phoenix]

I don't think the Arcanum would have something like that tucked away in an archive?

[near schooner]

a fairy, you mean?

[weary plaza]

it depends on if it's a changling or a chimaricla beast. and a red cap would problay just eat him.

Charlie! ↩️

[Reply to:](#1216227286177808584 message) a fae that can do that much damage to him would be uhhhh redcaps?

But a changling wiht seamings blessing that could do that would be a troll or ogre most likly

[weak phoenix]

Wouldn't the Arcanum have wards against something like that?

[weary plaza]

Red Caps were born of the fear the first humans crossing a mountan range had when there shamans told them they could not stop as hungery things lurked there.

and changlings are Human enough that you can't ward them off wiht out banality wich anti the archaium ethos, and if it was already inside and let out...

[simple hill]

Are there something like deep ones in wod

Or like a fish person

[weary plaza]

They would be bygons, mermaids (changlings) or weresharks of some kind though like the horizion is not that far down in to the ocen in oWoD

So you can easly go form consesus reality to the deep umbra wiht out like steping sideways or any other sperit travle

[graceful jay]

There's weresharks

and probably some kinda fish people

[neon vine]

the Anuran mockery werefrogs have deep ones vibes

their Crinos equivalent is called "Dagon"

[pallid bobcat]

Damn just spent an hour getting caught up on theories after discovering this thread

On the deep ones question, if I remember demon lore correctly Cthulhu is one of the greater demons anchored in reality via the statue. (Idk the canonicity of any demon stuff in v5 but basically the greater demons can't possess humans like regular demons can and instead are anchored in reality by magical objects that require worship... It led to a lot of the bad taste lore in demon so idk how much got scrapped)

[graceful jay]

Demon stuff in 5th is most likely completely un-canonized until otherwise stated

[pallid bobcat]

Also I'm currently putting my money on Fatigue recognizing signs of spit being a fera losing himself to rage and tried to pull him back subtly without escalating the situation and potentially setting him off. He is the local lycanthropy expert after all

[pallid bobcat]

That's honestly kinda for the best. In spite of some of the cool ideas demon played with, it really went off the religious deep end

[pallid bobcat]

An unseelie or other such creature seeing this and purposefully pushing Spit over the edge via the doll for either a laugh or to further some scheme via the escaped/loose doll makes sense to me as well

[simple hill]

Oh

Oh my god

Do you know what could be it

It would be absolutely hilarious if the motivation of the ghoul is t to find hunter ID

But rather something extremely self serving for the regent

Like Celtic artifacts for her Boudicca cosplay

[weary plaza]

That would be funny and fitting wiht like what we know about her

[weak phoenix]

...I would be so mad if Fatigue died because of a stupid Boudicca cosplay needing something Celtic.

Also, The Feuds of our Fathers got age restricted. Was trying to watch the episode my TV while not being signed in and the thumbnail was blurred.

I'm not surprised because, yeah, Fatigue dying was the most graphic thing that has happened with the show.

Also Chapter 1 has 1.5 million views.

[gusty urchin]

am i insane or does big d look like king harkinian from cdi zelda here

[surreal crown]

It's homage

an 'omage de CDI Zelda

[simple hill]

Hmm

You know I thought Harry might have alibi for Occam attack

But if dominate is in play

He might not have an alibi

Because he could have dominated markus to think he never left the room or something

[neon vine]

If D is right about their emotions being amplified we might be dealing with Dementation

so Dominate + Obfuscate

though that implies an already rather powerful ghoul

[surreal crown]

I am sure they just spiked the food with uppers to get everyone to act like shitters

[simple hill]

Does that mean Amanda is the ghoul

[neon vine]

possibly but when did they eat?

[surreal crown]

Judging by the back and forth pilfering and skulketry, could be anyone
Could be you
Could be me
It could even be-

[prisma adder]

The ghoul actually got locked outside

It was the reliant robin driver

[simple hill]

It was the wolf

[surreal crown]

Turns out Doctor Fatigue had been cut by an anime swordsman ages ago, and only now did the cuts kill him

[bright aurora]

he was a REALLY good swordsman

[simple hill]

Another intriguing detail

Harry mentions in pubbing episode that he had to deliver a package

A package that was screaming

And roughly book sized

Perhaps… book sized like a mask or a puppet’s head??

Also what if Matilda is the clawed creature

And that’s why she constantly wears a rubber glove

[surreal crown]

Gotta cover up the sharp fingernails

[neon vine]

hmmmm

that would explain the clawmarks on the passageways

though she has an alibi for fatigue's death

[simple hill]

She does not actually

Last seen carrying Occam to Waters office

Between Occam’s sealing of the archive and discovery of his body

She also said she’s heading to the kitchen

But went to the security room instead

Also of note—waters seem to be regular cocaine user

[surreal crown]

She does work in the kitchen

[graceful jay]

https://www.tumblr.com/atomeja/745324434737561600/deranged-individual-draws-grimal-and-elise-like?source=share

girls rock girls rock girls rock

[prisma adder]

I love both of them so much

[neon vine]

Imma cry so much if one of them turns out to be the ghoul

[solemn lintel]

YOOOOO

[compact copper]

She’s planning to beat someone with a paddle soon

[simple hill]

Maybe the ghoul is the good person

Trying to defend a rare species of sanguophage from illegal poachers

[surreal crown]

Turns out it's just a werewolf that wanted to off Fatigue, and the ghoul infiltration was just a good opportunity to act under the radar, ish.

[simple hill]

https://youtu.be/YcazPMF_ROg?si=n03wu4qruk0zAopY

[deft urchin]

Either this is just gonna censor fatigues corpse or they threw together a crappy dub in a week

[graceful jay]

https://vxtwitter.com/MangoUltra/status/1770140049629122779

I love how this is the episode that activated folks

[compact copper]

my guy

[simple hill]

New theory on how big d a normal human may have survived from the era which used minas as a unit

Maybe he’s one of those ancient humans who lived longer lives and he just froze himself until he woke up relatively recently

[neon vine]

Wouldn’t that reference Demon lore?

[simple hill]

True

Can horses become vampires

Is horse a Malkavian

[neon vine]

Horse is D’s Favorite Son

[simple hill]

Could still be a Malkavian with protean

[neon vine]

Depends if Horse can go out in the sun

[simple hill]

He never leaves the barn and wears a weird cloak that covers every inch of his body

[bright aurora]

What if he’s an exalt

[neon vine]

He's insane enough to be one but far too underpowered

Well, D is

Horse could be a Lunar but he should by all rights immune to mundane disease if that's the case

[weak phoenix]

Probably supernatural

Also, was Boy hallucinating on the Absinthe or did that actually do a whole "Okay, so, this random thing is gonna trigger a supernatural event"?

[simple hill]

I kinda suspect Markus is a mage

Either him or Boy

[bright aurora]

you know, funny thing is, absinthe doesn't cause hallucinations

that's a popular misconception

the hallucinations that absinthe is known for were caused by brain damage due to copper poisoning, which was brought on by absinthe not being green enough for people at the time (it is naturally a faint teal-ish color) and copper salts were used as a coloring agent

[simple hill]

I love copper poisoning

[bright aurora]

Big D type post

[simple hill]

There’s some weak evidence for either being a mage

Malkavians are my spirit leeches

First for Markus he seems to cast a hex on Brock that somehow actually works

And Brock suffers from quick series of incredible misfortune

[neon vine]

Marckus i think is a Mage, Boy might be a Changeling

[simple hill]

“If you continue to hurt us sickness of dogs long past will haunt you”

Brock: pulls out a switchblade which explodes

Pulls out another switchblade which explodes

Pulls out a Bowie knife and gets downed by apple brandy salmonella

[neon vine]

That was his mum’s trusty switchblade!

[bright aurora]

Marckus is probably a mage yes

[neon vine]

Also a cop

[bright aurora]

WoD seems to imply that there are other types of latent supernatural talents humans can have that aren't Being Mages, like having a sixth sense or getting glimpses of the future

[simple hill]

Yeah

Boy just might be a weird human

With a gift of prophecy

[bright aurora]

but Marckus bitch ass cursed a man

[neon vine]

Boy is a Psyker in TTS

[simple hill]

Can you be a Mage without realizing it

[bright aurora]

yes

[chilly seal]

So 👏
Everyone agrees Spit is the ghoul?

[near schooner]

no

jury's very much still out

[chilly seal]

oh doo tell, I just discovered this sub-forum today

and it seems some people think Markus is a mage, would be fun

[simple hill]

Markus is either a mage or absurdly lucky

He tells Brock that he’s gonna suffer the sickness of dogs

And then suffer misfortune ten fold

Brock then subsequently gets salmonella from brandy

And then two of his knives explode

And a cop shows up

Things don’t add up with spit being a ghoul theory

Spit is the most recent hire at the arcanum

Kevin joined the Sabbat a while ago

He wouldn’t have intel on spit

And I kinda feel like his withdrawal symptoms are too visible

An expert hunter like D or a scholar like Occam probably would’ve noticed ghoul withdrawal symptoms like that

[chilly seal]

That is true, so you think his withdraw is a Red Herring?

[simple hill]

Because they describe ghoul withdrawal as being “very visible”

Unless I guess they are both extremely distracted I suppose which is possible

[slow bay]

Spit is not the ghoul, and Fatigue's murder was unrelated to the ghoul
Is what I think seems most likely for now

[simple hill]

Yeah

[chilly seal]

oh, then maybe Spit can be a werewolf?
And the voices he refers to are teh spirits trying to talk to him?

[simple hill]

Possible but unlikely

[chilly seal]

Maybe is too far fetched, he still have his clothes on

[simple hill]

His clothes survived the shift

We think there might be murder puppets

Fae

[chilly seal]

That I am unfamiliar with, what are those?

[slow bay]

As for the identity of the ghoul, Elise seems extremely suspicious, but that also seems almost too obvious to be it

[weak phoenix]

So, basically people managed to pause the frames and saw unseelie marked puppets pop in and out throughout the video.

And they're also from this festival.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laetare_de_Stavelot

[chilly seal]

Oh shit, those appear around the video?!
I watched so many times and never noticed can you tell me when they first start appearing?

[chilly seal]

shiiiiiiit
Is extremely "Blink and you miss it"

[weak phoenix]

Yep.

[simple hill]

I suspect Matilda tbh

[weak phoenix]

So, the theories in here are: Ghoul choked out Occam, another supernatural killed Fatigue, and something has been crawling around the vents besides Grimal.

[simple hill]

She’s the only one who did something utterly contrary to what she said she would do

[neon vine]

Its possible a Fera of some sort got Fatigue

There are visible claw lacerations on his body

[weak phoenix]

Yeah, but ghouls and vampires can also do that too.

[simple hill]

And yeah frimal’s definitely venting

[weak phoenix]

Especially in the claw department.

[chilly seal]

True, I was even suspecting possession

[simple hill]

She could have dominated Grimal to attack Occam

[chilly seal]

Maybe a Wraith was released by the ghoul

True

[weak phoenix]

We're not gonna found out until the next episode.

Also, episode four? Yeah, it got hit because of a lit cig and not Fatigue dying horribly.

_>

[chilly seal]

I mean, yeah, but is fun to speculate

[weak phoenix]

I swear these algo's hit over the minorest stuff that isn't a big deal.

[simple hill]

When is the next episode

Few months?

[chilly seal]

And we all know it will take... almost 6 months to a year for episode 5
More content in between? Yeah for sure, but episode 5? I give 6 months to a year

[simple hill]

3 years?

[weak phoenix]

Give or take, yeah.

[simple hill]

10?

[chilly seal]

If they don't make more half life stuff, i give 1 year

[weak phoenix]

Episode 1 was two years ago

Episode 2-3 and the audio was a year ago.

Okay, no. Episodes 1-3 were from two years ago and the audio is from a year ago.

[chilly seal]

ye

[simple hill]

What was the time between episode 2 and 3

[weak phoenix]

Episode 2 was March

Episode 3 was May.

And Episode 1 was released in December.

[prisma adder]

Most likely we'll see episode 5 in late summer or even more likely autumn

[weak phoenix]

Yep.

So, we're probably looking at 3 to 4 month gap between episodes.

[simple hill]

June would be early summer though innit

[weak phoenix]

Barring the audio content that gets released.

Because audio is quicker to do compared to animation.

[prisma adder]

The production value has increased a lot since the first episodes so it's hard to tell

[weak phoenix]

Yeah.

If we follow the pattern for Ep. 2 and Ep. 3

[simple hill]

I don’t think any of the elders can be a ghoul

Since they already have archive access

[prisma adder]

But also new theory for Big D: he's actually a kithain born of the imagination of TTS fans and Emperor memes ((this is a joke theory)

[weak phoenix]

Then we'll probably see Ep. 5 come around either in May or June.