Project Moon Games: Lobcorp, Ruina, Etc.

[stoic fjord]

He didn't kill her but yeah

[bronze zephyr]

I try to be neutral for all the nursefathers

[bronze zephyr]

He basically tried to

[stoic fjord]

"Sliced through his Apprentice to do nothing and lose" is easy to meme

[buoyant stream]

i still genuinely do not get how you can make enough of an ass of yourself to be a sottocappo and then get kicked into the Finger's collective recycling bin

after 3 DAYS

[gentle mulch]

I will say that Rien also let the Prescripts bait Sora into nonexistence which I think is at least equally fucked up

[keen palm]

Because the Thumb is insane

[gentle mulch]

and I like Sora so

fuck you rien

[keen palm]

That wasn't the Prescripts

[stoic fjord]

Hence my "Outis Matthias should get an S3-2 that instantly staggers Kiramael and loses you the battle in exchange for 40 damage"

[bronze zephyr]

Except Shiomi I’m not a Shiomi apologist by any means but she is one of my favorite characters
And I’m low-key a Callisto glazer but

[keen palm]

Rien just told her to do that

[gentle mulch]

My theory on it is that she was inconsistent

[buoyant stream]

me when i send my chud 3rd daughter into the walking concept incinerator because i need some entertainment after gettign boring prescripts all day

[gentle mulch]

Thumb is a faction of rigid etiquette so applying the etiquette inconsistently means you're undermining the Entire Thing

[buoyant stream]

most likely, yea

[keen palm]

To me it seems like Valencia was used as a tool as a soldier, and the Thumb just expected her to immediately transition back to normalcy

But she was an absolutely broken woman forced to live again in "polite society"

[gentle mulch]

Outis Matthias' special unstagger should kill kiramael and get 1000 aggro and fragile

[lean fjord]

I like Valencina a lot

[gentle mulch]

I like Valencina for different reasons than why I don't like her

[keen palm]

I think the detail that she was her best parent when she was actively fighting the Smoke War is like

top grade subversion

[ebon forge]

I like that

[gentle mulch]

just how the fuck did she get that eye

[ebon forge]

Valencina is probably my favorite overall

Also I gotta wonder she had like, Cyberpsychosis type shit

[bronze zephyr]

I don’t think that’s ever said to be a city thing

[ebon forge]

Probably not cuz lore

But I like to imagine the damaged relic made her just fucking die inside and get even worse

[gentle mulch]

oh god could you imagine the Odin Eye predicting you'd fuck up Thumb Etiquette and then getting your tongue ripped out before you did anything

[buoyant stream]

The way i imagine Val's downfall in the thumb is that she had an insane superiority complex that got fed by the treatment she got when she actually was in a high position which then boiled over once she got the rank of sottocappo and then she pissed off one of the (presumably) few people who actually outranked her

[keen palm]

She got the eye because she was supremely good at killing things and was being rewarded for being supremely good at killing things and then punished for being rude, a trait you tend to pick up when you are forced to do nothing but brutally kill things

Also yeah, the only person who outranks Valencia would be the Consilignare and the Capo di Capi

[gentle mulch]

I like to imagine that she'd swing the other way and be grossly biased or affectionate in ways that wasn't befitting the rank/reward system, from renclairs ut3

[bronze zephyr]

Maybe we’ll learn at the bowbell

[gentle mulch]

hopefully yea

[stoic fjord]

I'm still super into this theory yeah

[gentle mulch]

I can't wait to see Kim again

[keen palm]

I'm still kinda surprised the bowbell wasn't a thing this canto

[gentle mulch]

same

[keen palm]

… Hm. It seems that my recent visit to the House of Spiders has affected my speech. To use words like 'art'… is not befitting the Capo of the Thumb.```

[gentle mulch]

Specifically imagining some other Thumb members like why the fuck is Valencina drinking with the soldatos that's disgusting

[keen palm]

Who the fuck was serving Caposault wine with teeth

was it Callisto

Callisto who doesn't have a fuckin mouth

[buoyant stream]

Honestly i wasn't super into the theory, but like... Val being the type of person who gives you preferential treatmeant if you kiss her boots enough? i can see it, yea

[keen palm]

I could see the idea that Valencia protected a Capo or Soldatti from the Capo di Capi being seen as the ultimate sin

man I gotta do work I'll be back later

[buoyant stream]

i think either way Val's ego and perception of herself is what lead to her being sent to the HoS

[keen palm]

Oh y'know

I'm reading Caposault's uptie again

If we assume that the mysterious person is a version of Jia Yuanchan

[buoyant stream]

how exactly that ended up happening is something i hope we get to see either in Val Rod's uptie story or when we interact with the thumb more heavily (probably when we get to the Finger Bow Bell seeing as next Canto is in NCorp so the fingers will almost certainly be takign a back seat)

[keen palm]

The Shi Family was framed for the rebellion

[bronze zephyr]

Oh true Val Rodya

[bronze zephyr]

Oh interesting

[keen palm]

And Jia Yuanchan is a pinky member

[bronze zephyr]

Why are there five pinky members in H Corp alone

[keen palm]

https://i.imgur.com/Uq5m4cy.png

https://i.imgur.com/FOIAEjA.png

[keen palm]

It seems to me like H Corp might have been a proxy war between two factions of the Pinky

with Jia Yuanchan on one side and Jia Qiu on the other

[bronze zephyr]

Heavenly spirits vs earthly fiends maybe

Or hm lei heng is heavenly

Ugh I need more pinky Lore

Forgot about this

[buoyant stream]

The pinky straying from the path of humanity

i sure wonder which heavily prominent character in the latest canto is a very glaring example of that-

[bronze zephyr]

We don’t know what the path of humanity is
Unless it’s an irl concept I don’t know about

[buoyant stream]

the woes of modern Project moon world building and lore being confined to a live service game that is meant to run for, like, 10+ years.
it's all getting stretched out and delivered in chunks

[eternal berry]

Jia Qiu’s just expressing general dissatisfaction with the direction of the Pinky, he’s not really referring to any specific philosophy there (well, I guess you could say it’s his philosophy)

[bronze zephyr]

The pinky as a whole follows the “virtue of humanity” according to Dante’s notes and ren

I imagine it’s the same thing Jia qiu’s referrijg to here

[buoyant stream]

well until we get further elaboration on it i will continue to believe that the imprisonment and utter dehumanization of Shiomi is in sharp contrast to the "path of humanity" the pinky is supposed to follow in Qiu's eyes

[keen palm]

That predates Jia Qiu even joining the pinky though

[bronze zephyr]

Keep in mind that the pinky is still a syndicate and humanity as a concept means vastly different things to different people

[lean fjord]

Jia Qiu is presumably also referring to a more idealised form of the Pinky than they are now

[bronze zephyr]

being a syndicate doesn’t necessarily make you inherently bad, the blade lineage is extremely tame by comparison
But it’s a finger so

[buoyant stream]

i don't think that necessarily disproves things but i am going to clarify that this is my headcanon and no one has to subscribe to it

[eternal berry]

It’s a very broad thing, high ideals and all that. Given the mention of Mohists I suspect the Pinky probably has a large variety of perspectives on how to pursue said virtue

[bronze zephyr]

Mohists have utilitarian ethics so the pinky could overall follow a “sacrifice the few for the many” philosophy which can lead to some heinous justifications, like Shiomi

[unique bane]

It might be reffering to one of the confucian virtues

[bronze zephyr]

Oh yeah, it matches the character used in the notes entry

Ironically:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren_(philosophy)

Ren
More like
John Pinky

[keen palm]

I love how this is specifically telling Confucius he's wrong about his philosophy then

[stoic fjord]

I wonder who's more skilled between Night Drifter and Bamboo-Hatted Kim

I have to assume Night Drifter but

[vagrant dove]

I think the intervallo makes this point, with that whole discussion around Callisto and Matthias in 9.5-7

[bronze zephyr]

night drifter is one of the Ten Blades right

[vagrant dove]

Which you can expand broadly to all of the Nursefathers

Also yeah the ND used to be one of the ten blades, and is apparently still skilled enough to be able to use a random ass branch as a lethal weapon

[bronze zephyr]

yeah like absolutely ND

[vagrant dove]

(And from there, outwards to the Fingers)

[bronze zephyr]

mhmhm

[vagrant dove]

While constantly drunk, as well (although tbf that's part of his fighting style)

Apparently the Ten Blades are just Built Different

[bronze zephyr]

o7 night drifter you live on with the Green Deliverance and Family Hierarch

[ebon forge]

ND just was like, "ight i can die lol" and then died

dude probably had shin and mang

i am so fucking close to Every Fucking ID Ever

[lean fjord]

I'm only missing like 9 Standard Fare IDs

that I also don't really care about

[stoic fjord]

praying for Bamboo-Hatted Kim to get upscaled

[bronze zephyr]

im missing a large chunk of IDs but who cares lol

[stoic fjord]

I'm missing some that I care about but most are whatever

[vagrant dove]

I think he could probably use Shin, given the nature of what he teaches Sinclair and Xichun (emptiness of mind corresponds to the clear mind Verg talks about in Leviathan when discussing Shin, imo) but probably doesn't due to his whole Thing of leaving behind the past to become a faceless drifter

Which doesn't sound too conducive to reflecting upon ones memories

He's living for the sake of living, as he puts it himself- leaving behind the past and not looking into the future

[ebon forge]

mmm

[stoic fjord]

WHY DO THE SINNERS GRAVITATE TOWARDS PAPYRUS

[ebon forge]

don x papyrus LMAO

[cloud wadi]

Kim because he’s not dead

[bronze zephyr]

this is true

[keen palm]

https://www.tumblr.com/zetsu-b0/815851663018573824/emperoach?source=share

Zetsu-b0

emperoach

-# #project moon #limbus company #gregor #vergilius #rodion #heathcliff #lcb

Tumblr · May 6, 2026, 8:39 AM

[stoic fjord]

I wonder if he's meant to sort of evoke a claw

[bronze zephyr]

its possible the claw is using old G Corp's singularity but they seem more mechanical

hm

yknow who Is meant to evoke a claw tho /hj

[keen palm]

I don't think he's meant to invoke a claw but I do think Gregor will eventually get a Claw ID

[vagrant dove]

Truke

It would make sense for him to get a Claw id in the distant future

[bronze zephyr]

Anyone who ships Heath and Sinclair gets cute crumbs in Middle Heath’s story

[stoic fjord]

I think it's cute in a brothers sorta way

[faint pivot]

This implies Hopkins is stronger than Yuri, to which I seethe

[stoic fjord]

ahhhh but you see

she isn't dead

use your noggin

[faint pivot]

Wait no

I mixed them up

I meant Aya not Yuri

[stoic fjord]

oh yeah fair

[bronze zephyr]

True

[stoic fjord]

she will come back in Canto 11 as the Tiantui Scarlet Blade Tiger

trust

[stoic fjord]

Ricardo has gap moe

[atomic steeple]

The bara fans are enjoying new heath

[stoic fjord]

4 hours until I can get my shit kicked in by big ricky

[cloud wadi]

What is strong is what survives

Or vice versa

[keen palm]

Hopkins is stronger than Argalia

[cosmic gorge]

we're gonna fight the evil glasses guy from backrooms company one day i know it

[stoic fjord]

Canto 7 spoilers

||Was Sancho stronger in the period her and Don Quixote were on their adventure, or would the one we fight be the strongest, assuming she wasn't nerfed?||

[faint pivot]

||She is nerfed in the latter no?||

||Either way I'd say the former just cause she wouldn't be as starved, relatively (still starving tho)||

[stoic fjord]

||I mean if there's any notable degradation beyond the being starved||

[faint pivot]

||Hm I was gonna say The Contract but it's pretty blantaly clear that it doesn't apply when her shoes are off||
||I think the mild increase in hunger was her only nerf when we fight her||

Almost forgot to claim my modules, woops

[stoic fjord]

I saw a youtube poll for canto 10 predictions for IDs so now I'm curious

Options are

1. ID with Mang
2. Color fixer ID
3. Excision coins on an ID
4. ALEPH E.G.O

Which one do you guys think is most likely to happen

[gentle mulch]

i didn't think we'd even get shin on a unit until later

my rankings are
Mang
Excision
Aleph
Color

[lean fjord]

Mang maybe
no way on the others

I don't think we're gonna see playerside green coins

not any time soon at least

[gentle mulch]

The way I see it we're already at Shin so manifesting One Mang on a Skill 3-2 Max Conditions might be in the cards
Excision Coins I think would be tested out like ZweiIsh but on a clashable counter or something

Aleph i just don't know when that's happening

Color ID is like the white whale of IDs

[bronze zephyr]

I mean we’re at two mang already for Nursefather Yi Sang, I think color tier is closer than we think

Vespa has two mang

Or

I forget if riensang has one or two

Rien has three

I think aleph ego and IDs are a purgatorio thing tho yeah

And I’d kind of hate if excision coins became a thing tbh aidbsjbsbs

[gentle mulch]

it's gonna b some shit like

Conditionless Regular Coin
Condition Partial Unbreakable
Condition Max Excision and Final Power

[bronze zephyr]

Unbreakables are just “my attack hits you”
Excision coins break bosses with gimmicks that revolve around unbreakables

[gentle mulch]

Mfw I immobilize Magic Bullet Angela so she just dies unprompted

ow that gifs too fast

https://tenor.com/view/funeral-of-the-dead-butterflies-lobotomy-corporation-library-of-ruina-limbus-company-he-gif-1632039057037985529

i think

Excision coins would need a rework in order to have some sort of healthy game design moving forward

[bronze zephyr]

Yeah

[gentle mulch]

if they'll take that step?

[bronze zephyr]

Like

[gentle mulch]

pppperrrerrrriooooobbbbabbly not

[bronze zephyr]

Excision coins are only used in Very specific situations

They don’t translate well outside of the bosses they are explicitly designed for

[gentle mulch]

I'd like a Coin that would be sorta like Deadlocks Dispel Magic that doesn't Break Unbreakables but removes status afflictions and heals based on the amount

given the gluttony coding

so even if you lose the clash you won't deal with the extra status stuff

mmmm yummy

[bronze zephyr]

I think removing incoming unbreakable damage would b healthier

[tiny cave]

Don’t think they wanna do that

Goes back to s1 problems lol

Why bother having any IDs that tank or unopposed or whatever when you can just win clash and win

[gentle mulch]

btw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUu2Kfn0fIc

guh

[bronze zephyr]

Mm true
The healthiest thing overall is truly. No excision coins

[tiny cave]

Only purple coins for ryo’s capstone

[bronze zephyr]

O. Shit maybe

[split beacon]

I doubt we'll get Excision Coins

[bronze zephyr]

I hope not

[fickle crown]

I imagine excision will only exist for allies

ie: story content

[bronze zephyr]

Ye

if we get it on IDs. fear.

[fickle crown]

I don't think that'll be the case with Ryo's capstone

For one simple reason

That being unbreakables would stop contributing to her gimmick

She actively wants the HoS IDs to take damage and die

And unbreakable coins aid in speeding that up, even if you're doing well

[tiny cave]

Fell bullet upscale

[fickle crown]

It would wholly destroy her buildup if she did have excision coins

[bronze zephyr]

i think capstone ryo may have purples

but

[tiny cave]

I feel if it has purples it’s either gonna be

1. On an S3-2 or S3-3 that’s really hard to access
   Or
2. On a low clashing guard so it won’t completely invalidate boss special moves

[gentle mulch]

capstone will have purples is a crazy take that i want to believe in

[tiny cave]

7 coin skill that changes the coin colours to your sin resonance in order trust

[split beacon]

Why would the Dihui Star ID have purples

That’s a property of Arayashiki

[tiny cave]

Her hair is purple

[split beacon]

Truth nuke.

But seriously: her having purples would make no sense considering that the entire purpose of the House of Spiders and its Nursefathers was to invent purple coins.

[fickle crown]

Imo she really does want unbreakable coins

Like

Again

It's entirely in her best interest to be taking some damage

[split beacon]

Watch her have Predestinated Strike

[gentle mulch]

i want ryoshu to

https://tenor.com/view/feels-the-aura-aura-meme-aura-farming-feels-the-aura-meme-gif-8288143849566529885

[split beacon]

On Use: this skill can clash skills of any speed

[gentle mulch]

need her hitting a pose doing formless strike

[split beacon]

(Guard Counter)

It would be genuinely evil

If she could at-will summon a weakish skill that has the all-clash property

[gentle mulch]

fuuuuuuck

i #needdat

whens her kit reveal

[split beacon]

And if it lands

[tiny cave]

Monday next week

[split beacon]

YOU HAVE FAILED TO PREVENT THE FUTURE

Legitimately though

She’s gonna have Scartrail.

[tiny cave]

Her kit has already been revealed
To me
In a dream

[gentle mulch]

i dont think anythings going to top the emotions i felt seeing Ricardocliff having a canonical music change when his big skill pops into the dashboard

gebura changing the theme song regardless of what was happening is one of the highlights of LoR

GGST if Dragon Installs changed the music forever and ever >>>

[tiny cave]

Surely the Xiao ID is gonna change the theme to Iron Lotus

[gentle mulch]

i hope

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiMERnpucxo

[fickle crown]

https://youtu.be/EvrqdpMsukM?si=ht-rSSXs2OpR3nYp

What the fuck

[main scaffold]

Reflactrial Ricardo is now out!

Is is, as expected, very geared towards you using a middle team in phase 1

[cosmic gorge]

and then heishous

[gentle mulch]

my #fuckass envy res

[faint pivot]

Hey

So this'll sound very funny

But

Does LobCorp HQ use Corridor tech?

In place of regular elevators?

Cause like

Abnormalities with no hands or seeming capability to crawl/travel up (or even fit in) small spaces like elevator shafts use them no problem

Not to mention the instant transmission

Speaking of LobCorp

TIL

[main scaffold]

Reflactrial Ricardo is very difficult

It does not help that most sinners base Zayin are weak to either Wrath or Envy

[bronze zephyr]

hm,, I only have Middle Sinclair and Ishmael, how do I finagle this

[fickle crown]

I think it's just a filter thing

Iirc old lobcorp did have actual working elevators but that's not the case in the current version

So I just interpret it as the halls just being "simplified" so the manager can focus on other tasks

[faint pivot]

Fair

And it did, yeah

They took forever to transport employees

Also, Nocturnal Sweeping:
Rambling Man, huh...I guess that's why Dante believed Outis was gonna betray for Qingtao

[gentle mulch]

ow

hard mode ricardo needs 18 turns or less

[faint pivot]

TIL Ricardo owns a business

Or at minimum, manages a club

[bronze zephyr]

hrmhrmhmhrhrrgrgrgrgrg

is ricardo non-middle worth my tiiime

i should just wait lmao

[main scaffold]

Wait until there is either a balance patch or people start figuring out ways to kill him with three 00s and start mocking everyone who couldn't

[lean fjord]

Don't have Middle leveled, and don't have the tickets to do it

[bronze zephyr]

I'd need to grab Ricardo Heath and Middle Don if I wanted to do it now, and I'd rather just like, wait, grab Ryoshu next week, middle Heath, and Matthias Outis

i should go and do my MD insteadd lol

I shoulddddddddddddd finish LobCorp, i'm quite close

[main scaffold]

this was hell

[bronze zephyr]

whoa

[main scaffold]

It probably would have been a lot less hell if I had solemn lament Yi Sang leveled up though

...what do you mean hard mode is only 18 turns

But yeah, sinking was really good for phase 1
Until everyone died, of course

[bronze zephyr]

T-T

[main scaffold]

But then the heishou were able to win despite almost all of them dying

Tears of the Tarnished Blood is amazing in this fight

Also uh

We intended for Faust to die immediately after she got off a durante fluid sac but she just... never did?

Rose (It/Its/She/Her) | The Labrynth Doll ↩️

[Reply to:](#1208554035326484531 message) this was hell 📎

Which wasn't ideal

...we aren't bothering to do hard mode until we get a middle team, it looks like it sucks

Rose (It/Its/She/Her) | The Labrynth Doll ↩️

[Reply to:](#1208554035326484531 message) ...what do you mean hard mode is only 18 turns 📎

[bronze zephyr]

Yeaaaah

[main scaffold]

Ricardo does take extra damage from bleed IDs in phase 1 so we would have used our pinky team, but 4/6 of them are weak to blunt 😔

[faint pivot]

Hah, even from its lowest rung, the bus team, Limbus Company both grants and warps wishes

||Xichun asked for help with the hierarch exam and she certainly got it|| (canto 8)

[hybrid lynx]

worlds most fucked up (mundane) genie

[keen palm]

https://i.imgur.com/TWoSP8x.jpeg

Hardcardo complete

https://i.imgur.com/3ZpGHDE.png

First try :)

[bronze zephyr]

sick! middle then heishou?

[keen palm]

Yup

seemed like the desired set up

[bronze zephyr]

yeh]

alas i must wait

[keen palm]

My realization for hard mode was just accepting that sinners will die and that's okay and sometimes you just want everyone to beat the shit out of Ricardo as much as possible

[main scaffold]

That’s what we did for normal mode too tbh

Also, pro tip: driftshu is pretty good in phase 1. Hey, Back Off forces him to use one of his counters and she tanks them pretty well

[bronze zephyr]

Mmm ic
Alas, no driftshu for me

[cosmic gorge]

Xishmael slotting in after big rick killed her big bro and avenging him with her free s1 was peam

[uneven canopy]

https://www.tumblr.com/whooiew/815706234753826816/the-luscious-middle-empire?source=share

Kafka's Noteboke

The Luscious Middle Empire

-# #limbus company #sinclair lcb #don quixote lcb #heathcliff lcb #ishmael lcb #kira lcb #meursault lcb #dante lcb #haru urara is also here

Tumblr · May 4, 2026, 6:08 PM

[gentle mulch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPKrKCCsrZ0

IT HASNT EVEN BEEN 24 HOURS

WE HAVE A 3 TURN PHASE 2

[humble orbit]

had a good run today

[faint pivot]

What

[humble orbit]

an enjoyable time https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1405391279356907530/1501959976774537266/image.png?ex=69fdf8bb&is=69fca73b&hm=032c3cc2a51370576ba30c93b842e3b498974bad68ec9dc882c0e2ef84991b97&

[faint pivot]

Hold on rewind why is Headless Icthys so big

[humble orbit]

new floor 15 theme pack. cant remember the name rn. its just 3 headless icthys fights back to back and each one has buffed stats and is more comedically large

[faint pivot]

This must be the one the uhh

Funny Tremor Conversion tier 4 gift is from

[humble orbit]

it starts with the abnormally small one that you see in uh, i think it's luxes?
then it becomes the railway/md sized one
then it becomes . big.

[faint pivot]

Likely not locked to floor 15, but I see

[humble orbit]

floor 11-15 yeah

[faint pivot]

I wanna see more of this tbh give us more wild theme packs PMoon

[humble orbit]

it's called Bloodtinged Ichthyic Odor

there's 3 waves

wave 1 is normal headless icthys and is boring and i wont mention it

in wave 2 it gets actually interesting

in wave 3 it gets . quite strong .

[cloud wadi]

2refractorial ricardo got hands

[faint pivot]

Holy

This fish got hands alright

[worthy haven]

Heishou rips phase 2 apart

[humble orbit]

geniuinely scary as fuck

same with this shit

activate bleed 7 times fuck you explode

if this thing had any amount of count application it'd be the devil

[faint pivot]

The one silver lining to all this is no unbreakables

[humble orbit]

ok so there's a bunch of new theme packs and all of them have an associated gift and are some degree of wacky actually

• Code Purple gives a single K-Corp Ampule from canto 9 to the #1 slot of your party. Its fight is Every K-Corp Enemy.
• Bearers of Weight is. the weakest by far. Doomsday Calendar, Steam Transport Machine, and Spiced Up Papa Bongy. gives a nice burn gift.
• Line 1: MADNESS is Blubbering Toad, Headless Icthys and Alleyway Watchdog at the same time but it's like those fights in ruina where your ally is also hurting you? Very cool, then the 2 inquisitors-- Everything There and Slithering. Gives the Nail and Hammer gift that makes N-Corp almost viable.
• Blessed Carnival gives the bloodfiends life support. Fight Casseti and Sasha at the same time, then bloodfiend trio, then Sancho

[humble orbit]

• Fairy Tale is fight every 'fae' enemy except for fairy festival. Faelantern and the two fairies-- longlegs and gentleman. Gives a super great economy gift for self-tremor and charge IDs
• Bloodtinged Icthyic Odor is. Fisbh. ff.ffsoiuh. fiosh. Gives this actual monstrosity.
  The remaining 4 are all the return of secret bosses from the last mirror dungeon, and give their corresponding EGO gifts
  Notably, None of these give the bonus coin power normally associated with secret boss gifts, only their actual raw effects.
• Complete & Total Extermination is Ricardo and his glasses
• The Master of La Manchaland is Dad Quixote and his bloodfiend life support
• Chachaichu is Lei Heng and his EGO gift that's only good on 2 IDs in the entire game
• A Midspring Night's Dream 2 is charon-gilius and the bag of candies.

[lean fjord]

Doesn't the hat still give power on Wrath res too?

[humble orbit]

There's also a secret pack you may or may not be aware of that shows up sometimes? Called The B.E Very fucking rare, shows up from floors 3-10 on Hard.
2 nodes no matter what. One is a gamble to get a guaranteed 100 dollars, a 75% 200, or a 50% 300
second node is the fuckass gambling event that i fucking hate god its so ass i hate it. the slot machine.
then you get a shop. then you fight The Bongy Emperor.
rewards for the stage are always the same no matter what
for those unaware Bongy Plush is arguably the best Non-EX gift in the entire game. This floor has a 0.02% chance to show up.

[humble orbit]

yeah but the majority of the gift is dogshit for anyone who isnt thumbclair or thumbsault

but yeah uh general verdict is

if you're running a tremor team you gotta do fairly tale and bloodtinged icthyic odor, maybe chachaichu depending on team comp
if you're running an n-corp team you gotta do line 1 madness
if you're running a bloodfiend team you gotta do blessed carnival and master of la manchaland
if you're running a middle team you gotta do complete and total extermination
if you're running a burn team you gotta do bearers of weight and maybe chachaichu depending on team comp
if you're doing a solo run you gotta do Code Purple

gimmick teams have packs they're legally required to take now

[faint pivot]

Manchegans being gimmick teams 😔

I'm taking Code Purple next time I do MDE I'm not having Hongler kaboom on me again

[cloud wadi]

they have been relaged to becoming gimmiicks now

due to the existence of the RIng

[humble orbit]

tbf they have so many gifts unique to them now that in MD they're genuinely really good

if you kill a single enemy you can get upward of 1000 bloodfeast and im not kidding

[cosmic gorge]

Bongy whoaw

[gentle mulch]

I LOVE LUST RES

[lean fjord]

I kinda love how we get so many gifts buffing specific teams now

it makes the routing in MD more interesting, and you don't just need to hope for secret bosses

[cloud wadi]

Refractorial ricardo kinda has a unique reaction to seeing full middle team

He uses a|| move at the start called “oh, you were members of the fam?”|| which gives every middle id 10 sp

Next turn he uses ||You tricked me!!!|| which debuffs himself 20 sp

[lean fjord]

lmao

[keen palm]

Refractional is the first time I've ever seen Werner use an attack

[mystic ermine]

Very nice team

[gentle mulch]

nice

[gentle mulch]

I genuinely like what they did with the new ricardo, I don't think i like forced full deployment but that is a funny touch to see bc i spent a minute going where was this in the original fight??

[mystic ermine]

I can get this man to 100

and this one too, as soon as we GET THE DAMN THUMB DUO RHAAAAAAA

local sinner does NOT get head

[vagrant dove]

me genuinely watching furioso flip majority tails (happened to me in a failed rufo refract run)

[mystic ermine]

youch

does not sound fun

...aaahhh so close

had I not two turned Chachihu, I'd have gotten the 1000 off of Precognition and the unbreakables

[bronze zephyr]

chachihu?

[stoic fjord]

Lei Heng MDE pack

[crimson spindle]

ok, got my 15 turn ricardo hard

not doin' that any more

[split beacon]

pjm more reflectrials please

I like the way this sucks

[crimson spindle]

i kinda don't

it's too specific

[split beacon]

well ok I dislike the Mandatory New IDs clause / forced team picks but I like the general thing of going back to old bosses and making us try new strategies against harder opponents

[crimson spindle]

i want proper roguelike mirror dungeon

[split beacon]

with ID draft?

[crimson spindle]

ID draft, more random buffs/debuffs

[stoic fjord]

new reflecterial is like

holy shit this is so hard 😭

[gentle mulch]

honestly

i hope they move onto putting bosses locked behind massive fucking dungeons

[stoic fjord]

I do agree with Luna though I fw the way this sucks I just wish teams could be more general

[split beacon]

ID draft is pretty sick tbh I would also like more multi team fights but instead of the forced mandated "just use the team the game says to use" thing, make us cook

"the boss is weak to Burn but resists Wrath skills what now assholes"

[gentle mulch]

yeah

[bronze zephyr]

Yeah Rufo Reflectrial let you use Bleed and Sinking which is far less restrictive than Middle and Heishou, though Ricardo is permanent content

[gentle mulch]

remove faction limitations and just leave it to be sin affinities and stuff

[crimson spindle]

bleed works for first phase ricardo

it's harder but you don't need middle

[gentle mulch]

also an 8 turn was just made iirc using the docent team

[stoic fjord]

I do kinda fw the middle here though just because of the skills that are added

anyways I'm about to fail I think

[crimson spindle]

second phase is just a hardcore burn down I think you can probably do with any burst damage team that can afford to let members die

[stoic fjord]

second phase with heishou and this shit is dire

[bronze zephyr]

oh fr?

[crimson spindle]

8 turns on phase 1

which is like 1 turn slower than middle

[bronze zephyr]

Aah ic

makes sense

I don't have Ring Rodya alas

[crimson spindle]

fastest overall clear I've seen is 10 turns

7 middle, 3 heishou

[gentle mulch]

oh phase 1 yea

[stoic fjord]

fuck my entire life I can't even beat normal quickly

[gentle mulch]

same

20 turns for me

[stoic fjord]

I fucking wish I could do a 20 turn clear but I don't think I'm getting under 24 at best

[tired canyon]

i cant clear at all

so youre good

[stoic fjord]

I'm 99% sure I'm about to not even be able to clear

[neat cedar]

shout oht

to Kinkymationndoing a Limbus ID review stream

[stoic fjord]

yeah no it isn't even I can't clear

it's

I lost

[neat cedar]

Base + 2IDs

presictably

[stoic fjord]

like, it isn't a turn count

[neat cedar]

she went feral for sault

[stoic fjord]

I just got stomped

[neat cedar]

https://www.youtube.com/live/JM2dDdm-Mgc?

the vod for those who are curious

[stoic fjord]

my main issue

right now

I think is just

I cannot tank enough to be able to out-DPS him

[neat cedar]

only made it to Hong Lu

[stoic fjord]

like, what I mean by this is he staggers at least 2 sinners per turn

and half the time I get unlucky and it's faust so I have no healing

so it just snowballs into me not being able to damage him enough to stagger quick enough

so by the time he does stagger, I have like

3 sinners able to actually move on the turn

so on and so forth

[gentle mulch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pffzbk76IqQ

glad to see more people freaking out about hwhuhhh

Ryoshu?

[stoic fjord]

WHAT THE FUCK

WHEN YOU CHANGE PHASE STAGGER DOESN'T STAY

THIS ATTEMPT IS OVER BEFORE IT EVEN STARTED 😭

Ryoshu just rolled 3 heads at 45 SP

okay how did everyone else do this

Hope is a foolish thing for foolish people.

[tired canyon]

attemot FIFTEEN

I am so tempted to just

pop fluidsack frame 1

https://tenor.com/view/i-love-don-quixote-don-quixote-gif-8482304955053937386

[stoic fjord]

You get superbia each attempt iirc

https://youtu.be/n8SLvV_VIok

[stoic fjord]

I have both of the buffed teams and still just cannot get the DPS to not lose

I can't even clear 😭

Is there some way to not accumulate the status that just does like 50 extra damage with some attacks?

[tired canyon]

my friend did it with a bleed team and then changed to a rupture team midway through

[stoic fjord]

I'm basically doing the same

[keen palm]

An easy way to clash without dealing with the sunglasses status is to tactically get someone murdered the turn before the big whallops

This is what Middlesault is for

https://youtu.be/dG7MYZSSSnc?si=FhpeiOjgcke6tyy_

[stoic fjord]

maybe my issue is just that I suck at the game

[stoic fjord]

this is so fucking ass bro

how do I do this 😭

I'm trying to follow what I'm pretty sure is the gimmick/gameplan but I still just get completely cooked

this is the first time I've gotten genuinely tilted at Limbus

how do I get tilted at LIMBUS

[neat cedar]

This is thrnfirst actually hard cintent

the game has had in a while

[stoic fjord]

yeah

though I would like something that's like

more generally difficult, and doesn't specifically encourage certain teams so hard

[keen palm]

I think optional content buffing certain load outs is fine tbh

Like at some point if any team can do any content its probably not difficult

[stoic fjord]

I don't disagree, I just feel like it being so thoroughly tailored to it is a bit rough

like Rufo was more freeform, it was just generally bleed and sinking, which has flexibility

[gentle mulch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmxORBClEts

[stoic fjord]

yeahhh

it's genuinely upsetting to watch because it's just. so much E.G.Os I don't have

[gentle mulch]

might take on a philosophy of roll for id shard for ego

i need these baddd

[keen palm]

Like I did it largely without specific egos

Im not trying to speed run the ultimate speed

[stoic fjord]

I'm not either, I'm just trying to get a clear under 30 turns

[cosmic gorge]

@cosmic gorge for when im back on keyboard

[vagrant dove]

tried to fuse an ego gift and got the demon of babylon

[humble orbit]

deserved for playing the video game

[vagrant dove]

Truke

[humble orbit]

i love how red gossypium is like 100% neccesary for 60adv stuff on any team that happens to have a bit of wrath, or just bleed skills at all
but white gossypium is straight up satan itself

[vagrant dove]

actually ontologically evil ego gift. why does it unstagger enemies. why does it do that

[humble orbit]

it used to be so dogshit but if you ++ it it can actually be really good tbh
i still dont like it off of bleed teams though

[vagrant dove]

yeah the ++ is alright but like, you lose out on a whole turn of free damage

[humble orbit]

sometimes the offense level down is more important tbh

[vagrant dove]

true

[humble orbit]

against anything that can unstagger it's really good

cause you just get the upside without the downside
well. sometimes.

it depends on how the game. orders the series of events. but

sometimes it goes 'ok josephine is unstaggered by gossypium and then unstaggers herself" and you get the offense level
other times it says the other way around and you dont get shit

[cosmic gorge]

Heath was crashing about white gossy in the logs

[vagrant dove]

i don't blame him

[humble orbit]

'a few things"
look at rest of report

he does not talk about the actual abnormality for more than like 2 sentences at a time

[gentle mulch]

white gossypium actually kinda goated in MDIE

in literally every other situation why the fuck would you want it

[humble orbit]

the reason you want it is because I Like Offense Level Down :)

[gentle mulch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/815995357527539745/1493594876502081706/twitter_2043703676666093792.gif

[vagrant dove]

https://tenor.com/view/sancho-sancho-limbus-limbus-company-truth-nuke-truth-harpoon-gif-9993513397959303069

[humble orbit]

this server is a fucking prison

[vagrant dove]

anyway, I am currently running the rental Middle team

pretty fun honestly

[cosmic gorge]

Do you get cheevos for rentals

[vagrant dove]

i should level my middle ids but i spent so many tickets on ringdya and some of the HOS ids

[cosmic gorge]

I usually dont do rentals

[vagrant dove]

i think you do?

i generally do them to like

have something different

[lean fjord]

yes IIRC
but a few specifically exclude rentals

mostly the loadout ones

[vagrant dove]

yeah

[lean fjord]

same

[fickle crown]

This is late but that gift also fucks up solo runs so badly

Because the more staggers you have the less damage you're taking

[stoic fjord]

wait, new rental?

[vagrant dove]

yeah, middle/charge

[stoic fjord]

peak

[vagrant dove]

also kurokumo ryoshu lmao

[cosmic gorge]

Which other 000 kk id would you rather have to use that IV kk ego gift

Which demands 3 kk ids

BL in disguise kk rodya?

[stoic fjord]

it's on the rental with only her as the KK

[cosmic gorge]

But also /gen question

[vagrant dove]

I just find it funny that it's like, Middle and Charge on the rental and then Kurokumo ryoshu just There

[stoic fjord]

also genuinely KK Rodion is probably one of the better picks for MD BL/KK

because it enables BL/KK bloise

[vagrant dove]

like I don't think shes a bad id

[cosmic gorge]

I.A.A.S.

[vagrant dove]

i have her levelled because I didn't have Contempt Aweshu for a while

but

it's funny to me for some reason

[stoic fjord]

while still allowing both things to have their E.G.O gifts activate

[vagrant dove]

we got sinclair in chat? /j

[fickle crown]

Ngl KK Rodion was probably the first ever instance of resonance based counter to S3 usage

[cosmic gorge]

I am also standing
I shouldve put here instead

[vagrant dove]

ah

but yeah good lord middlecliff is strong

holy shit what an id

[humble orbit]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/991178307422928977/1501958214206619698/image.png?ex=69fdf717&is=69fca597&hm=a389bba3af22e415f1e004da59ecd1c359c396dfedcc187c4d24eee3771a2800& https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/991178307422928977/1502087271506251916/bafkreiedce6yfas5jkkxg7rxkrznt3cebh7xdr7hrgr4bcdvgujsikn5p4.png?ex=69fe6f48&is=69fd1dc8&hm=9708cf8766773544eca09a5dbe177c15624bcb45af31ff5bd4aec48e8e939c88&

[buoyant stream]

man that run was funny

[humble orbit]

heathcardo gotta be the funniest ufcking ID to just produce numbers with

[humble orbit]

what the ufkc

[vagrant dove]

finally

the other shards are for luciocliff

[stoic fjord]

tremor's MD gifts are lowk GOATed

but also yeah what the fuck 😭

charge tremor is like...

[humble orbit]

do you also have 400 spare outis shards for when farmwatch totally drops bro trust me

[stoic fjord]

I think 10 coin power?

or

idk

[vagrant dove]

the 400 outis shards I have are for matthias outis

not matthias cliff

i'm tired

wrong sinner

[humble orbit]

matthias outis 🤝 farmwatch outis

not being real

[vagrant dove]

TRUE

i will never abandon my cope for matt outis

[humble orbit]

farmwatch outis was so funyn too . why did so mayn people think outis would totally get the main villain id. its yi sangs fucking canto.

[stoic fjord]

Matthias Outis will be released and she will have an S3-2 to kill Kiramael and immediately guarantee a loss for the encounter next turn in exchange for 40 damage on the enemy

[vagrant dove]

also isn't farmwatch kind of controversial

[stoic fjord]

this is to make her as accurate to her source as Index Yi Sang

[humble orbit]

matthias literally cleaved his daughter in half for +1 to hit and then missed

[stoic fjord]

very, due to the character it comes from

iirc the real guy defected to north korea

[humble orbit]

dongrang is a fucking deranged individual. very well written!

the person he is based off of is also a fucking deranged individual

[cosmic gorge]

Downpour/frog eye are my go tos for mdie

Just gotta survive turn one

[stoic fjord]

true

I moreso mean the team-side stuff though

for the uh

[vagrant dove]

this is mainly because his moveset is so cool

[stoic fjord]

140 clash Rosespanner Meur

[buoyant stream]

the tkt fusion gifts are very silly, yea

[humble orbit]

i know you can run a like. 4 status team now?

charge/bleed/rupture/something?

[buoyant stream]

4 status and 5 status are technically possible if you play with retreats and sacs

triple status can be done without

[humble orbit]

wait no its burn bleed charge tremor

https://youtu.be/FbY7VB8kXA0

[stoic fjord]

there's also uhhh

I think it was poise bleed burn tremor someone did

[humble orbit]

this game is held together by silly string.

did you know that it started out using library of ruina's engine. it was supposed to just be like. a library of ruina recode to make some money on the side
this explains every weird ass bug in the entire game like the time we were all repeatedly forced to download a low resolution background of the smoke war like 50+ times

[stoic fjord]

waiting for Valencina Rodion and Lucio Heathcliff to give me burn poise and burn tremor

[buoyant stream]

Triple status teams are comfy to run. just demandiing for specific ids

[stoic fjord]

miracle that we did not get a yesod memory leak repeat

[humble orbit]

yesod was so real for that

[vagrant dove]

pm spaghetti code is a constant

[cosmic gorge]

200mb baybeee

[humble orbit]

pm as a studio is so fucking funny

[stoic fjord]

KJH streams are peak studio to playerbase communication

[buoyant stream]

case in point

[humble orbit]

shoutout to kjh winrating in mirror dungeon adn getting silently angry at ringsang every time he did anything

[buoyant stream]

oh wait that was just double status

[stoic fjord]

the only reason I don't run Bleed Charge Rupture more is because

1. I like using manager don when I use bloodfiends
2. Rabbit Heathcliff genuinely does jack shit despite being the basis of the team

[vagrant dove]

his hatred of ringsang is so funny

[humble orbit]

my brother in christ you made the sandwich

[stoic fjord]

so I run Bleed Charge

[vagrant dove]

id too ludonarratively powerful

[humble orbit]

real though
i simply Headcanon™ that hes like 2 days from being appointed docent and that explains his fucking deranged s2

[buoyant stream]

and the ring ids were in fact the 1st of 2 incidents of them wanting to nerf ids so that checks out

[stoic fjord]

truke

[stoic fjord]

tbh I feel like Ringsang got the nerfs he needed, so did Talisman Sinclair

what needs a nerf still and never got it

is a certain rabbit in the room

[vagrant dove]

the heishou in the room

[humble orbit]

MAOST.

[stoic fjord]

we coulda gotten THREE HUNDRED BOXES

AND TEN PULLS BACK

[gentle mulch]

the only nerf was to make her 3-2 take longer to get

[buoyant stream]

i saw a discussion the other day of people deadass arguing that Riensang was better than maost

[gentle mulch]

thats it

[humble orbit]

AND SHE WOULD NT EVEN BE THAT MUCH FUCKING WORSE
SHED JUST BE FUNCTIONING AS INTENDED. EVERY OTHER HEISHOU ADEPT HAS THE REQUISITE NERFS TO STOP THEM FROM USING THEIR S3 THREE FUCKING TIMES IN ONE TURN

[stoic fjord]

IF THE COMMUNITY DIDN'T FLIP THEIR SHIT OVER A NERF TO HER ONLY BEING THE MOST DPR BY 2X INSTEAD OF 3

[gentle mulch]

like that's all it was

[humble orbit]

EVEN ZILU CANT DO THAT SHIT

[stoic fjord]

someone's done the calcs

and it's genuinely from 1800 to 1200

[cosmic gorge]

I need to make a dnd 5e Wizard with Maost as the fc (if you know you know)

[gentle mulch]

we could have had so much for like

pennies on the dime

[stoic fjord]

the next highest before that was KoDYa minus form with 600

[vagrant dove]

i think s6s big problem was that it was designed around the heishou team

by and large

there were cool ids

and I like some of the Heishou ids (my uma)

[stoic fjord]

I think this chat has had this discussion like

[gentle mulch]

like genuinely so much reward for basically nothing

[stoic fjord]

15 times

[gentle mulch]

IM STILL MAD ABOUT IT

[vagrant dove]

yeah

[stoic fjord]

so I don't know we need to rehash it again

[stoic fjord]

same...

[vagrant dove]

sorry

[cosmic gorge]

Explaining my ttrpg gripes to a pmoon fan

So the wizard class is like If Maost was an entire player option-

[humble orbit]

i like the heishous except for 2

• maost
• depending on the day either maoshu or maoutis

i feel like maoshu and maoutis are just so. nothing

[stoic fjord]

I understand this because I was a D&D player once

[vagrant dove]

i love my horse

[humble orbit]

i fucking hate wizard so much also

[buoyant stream]

my favorite maost stupidity was when she bricked Granny's boss fight gimmick upon launch

[vagrant dove]

mainstay of my tremor team

[stoic fjord]

I kind of like them, I think they're a good basis for the team that does more general stuff

we just didn't need 3 of them

or for Maost to be so insane

[gentle mulch]

my gripe with the season is that i wanted more branches to be shown

[vagrant dove]

i like playing wizard because spells but it is also a fundamentally unbalanced class

[humble orbit]

i wouldnt mind there being 3 of them if they were a little more distinct from eachother

[stoic fjord]

also fair yeah

[humble orbit]

i will be so fucking fr i cannot psychologically withstand dnd for long periods of time

[stoic fjord]

I feel like they could've all had different gimmicks still following the same theme

[vagrant dove]

that also kind of lacks polish in terms of theme, which is a double whammy

[cosmic gorge]

Memes call sorcerers the nepo baby class when theyre actually continuously systemically made inferior by the true nepo baby of wotc

[vagrant dove]

sorcerors? cool themed magic

warlocks? evil patrons

paladins and clerics? boons from a diety

[stoic fjord]

I wish we got at least half the branches

[gentle mulch]

SIGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[humble orbit]

i fucking hate dnd's approach to casting in general
fuck clerics also . and druids. but especially wizards. not for any thematic reasons but entirely because those 3 classes are so good that you can have a team of 4 of each of them. just like. only those 4. and it'll be better balanced than an ACTUAL TRADITIONAL TEAM

[vagrant dove]

like wizards seem less flavourful in comparison while being mechanically powerful, which is not Good

[humble orbit]

FUCK CLERIC FUCK WIZARD FUCK DRUID

[gentle mulch]

i dont like dnd5e

feels Bad to play

[humble orbit]

I HATE DND!! I HATE DND5E SO FUCKING MUUUCH

[stoic fjord]

fucking hexblade warlock + paladin is more interesting than a wizard at base imo

[gentle mulch]

pathfinder was an improvement but i havent found my stride in that

[vagrant dove]

vaguely on this topic I want to do like a PM ttrpg campaign at some point

the city's a cool setting

[cosmic gorge]

I like fabula ultima

[humble orbit]

my play group for lancer wanted me to do this and i almost had a stroke

[worthy haven]

can we please not just rant into the void

[humble orbit]

like theres urban nightmare and stars of the city but both feel very uh
unfinished

[stoic fjord]

I don't think it's entirely ranting into the void but we are also getting off topic yeah

[ebon forge]

I want to make my own designs for the heishous

[stoic fjord]

surely nothing could go wrong if we made our own

[ebon forge]

Also Carmen here is making her magical girl ttrpg that works oddly similarly to pmoon

[worthy haven]

ye true badly worded from me sowy

[humble orbit]

the problem with a pmoon ttrpg is that theres so much shit in the city dude oh my god theres so much

theres so fucking much

[gentle mulch]

part of what i wish was better about the mao is that even if you get their speed resource they still can roll low enough to not reach 10 speed which. okay.

sure

[stoic fjord]

genuinely probably at least 5 different progression paths 😭

[gentle mulch]

r corp roguelike

[buoyant stream]

my table convinced me to gm 5e again with a bunch of project moon inspired subclasses. And Monster hunter. it's going to be a t r e a t to balance that nonsense

[stoic fjord]

they fr went "100000 ways for mfs to become strong"

[cosmic gorge]

Heishous would look better with half of them having their hats off

[stoic fjord]

you'd have to like

hard focus

one faction

and one faction only

[cosmic gorge]

Even my beloved art murderlady ringrodya who looks indistinguishable from rufo in her second phase at least starts with the mask off

[humble orbit]

ok so off the top of my head

boluses
body augmentations (there are 58917235098 types of this)
actual cybernetics/prosthesis
mang/shin
EGO/Psychoment/Partial Distortion/Unstable EGO
EGO gear
specialized clothing (technically falls into the above category but nuevo fabric is too wild not to mention)
workshop gear
relics
there is definitely more

[stoic fjord]

tbf mang/shin alone will not do it, and it's more of an add-on

[humble orbit]

it doesnt change that its one of the ten fucking billion paths to strength in this fuckass series

[stoic fjord]

and a decent amount of this could be like, items I guess

but also yeah

10 billion paths to strength

also

we don't like

actually know half the corps

[vagrant dove]

what'd probably work io is like, a base system around EGO/centered on Fixer shitand then addons

[humble orbit]

i almost forgot relics

[stoic fjord]

and what they do for their employees

[stoic fjord]

yeah

[cosmic gorge]

You can run pmoon games in FabUlt

I dunno

Its not supercrunch

[vagrant dove]

like if you want something fundemental to PM I'd say EGO

[cosmic gorge]

But its free enough

[humble orbit]

relics are fucked up . hey yeah in the outskirts theres just random shit sometimes. its so distinct that workshops cannot even dream to replicate the level of absurd detail and strength in them. just a relic and a bunch of tattoos can put you on par with a color fixer if not above them.

like what odo you mean

[cosmic gorge]

Designwise

[humble orbit]

i know the settings post apocalyptic but what fucking ruins are we living in. who the hell made laevatinn. why do relics have aptitutde and why are they picky about who is and is not fit to wield them.

[stoic fjord]

I still think it's funny that like

||for Matthias, this mf killed people and got basically kicked out of the middle for what could have been replicated by a workshop||

[humble orbit]

||matthias threw away his entire life to get Laevatinn and the sword literally left him on read||

[stoic fjord]

||because he just has no aptitude for the relic||

[humble orbit]

i do not infact thing laevatinn can be replicated by a workshop did u not see the part where it was producing so much heat it made a flowing river of lava around itself when it was first found

oh the lack of aptitude

yeah

[stoic fjord]

||I meant for Matthias specifically||

[worthy haven]

looks at the gladius

[stoic fjord]

||shit was just a fire sword that did like. a respectable amount of fire but also Verg got the same typa shit from a workshop||

[humble orbit]

the gladius vs laevatinn is literally "this is a very very hot sword" vs "this produces actual flowing surfacebound magma and burns the wielder alive from its sheer ambient heat. if it is not covered in protective gear at all times it will start wildfires."

[stoic fjord]

||again. this guy's a bum. I don't care how strong he is, or what he can do, he's a BUM||

[humble orbit]

||its just that matthias is a bum||

||and his sword thinks hes a little bitch||

[stoic fjord]

||I think again they're making the point of "in Matthias's hands it's not much more than the gladius"||

[humble orbit]

ahhh fair

[stoic fjord]

||being a bum isn't about STRENGTH. it's about WHO YOU ARE. It's about MINDSET||

||Ricardo may be an entire tier down, but he's the GOAT. Matthias is a bum||

[humble orbit]

point is its so funny to me that laevatinn literally left ||matthias on read and simply does not want to cooperate||

[gentle mulch]

||It's about drive it's about power we stay hungry we devour||

[humble orbit]

something something this

[gentle mulch]

TRUE

[stoic fjord]

truthnuke

[buoyant stream]

really looking forward to the trailer in uh. like 10 hours?

bit less

[vagrant dove]

i don't think its a Matt specific thing tbh, I think all the Nursefathers have a Problem in their fighting style

see Valencina's overreliance on Precognition

or Rien straightup using weapons that don't fit him because the prescript told him so

[stoic fjord]

I mean yeah I just think Matthias's is funniest

[humble orbit]

valencina is trying to run a windows 95 ass relic like its some overclocked reddit pc gaming rig and its literally making smoke pour out of her eyesocket

[buoyant stream]

i read a theory somewhere that Rien, Val and Matthias are like a Rock-Paper-Scissors kind of matchup in terms of fighting styles

[stoic fjord]

it's equally as tied into his character flaws but "his sword doesn't fucking like him" is funnier than "he is a hollow shell of a man who has entirely surrendered himself to the prescripts"

[vagrant dove]

still so funny to me that like, sometimes she's mid gloat and fails her evade and you just hear her get cut off and go "Shit!"

[stoic fjord]

elaborate?

[humble orbit]

shes so arrogant its literally the best

i will be so fr i think if the nursefathers weren't such losers we'd be Dead
like if callisto shut the fuck up and just killed hohenheim he wouldnt be fighting sinclair with a triple concussion and probably couldve clutched it
if matthias wasnt such a bum he probably couldve gotten some meaningful degree of attunement to laevatinn and absolutely floored us
if rien wasnta little bitch he wouldnt be in the house of spiders and thats spiritually a win for everyone

[vagrant dove]

I also think it's notable that Matthias is as strong as he is without Shin or Mang. Like this mfer is fighting the whole ass LCD+us without that shit and he's still terrifying

Still a bad person (nursefather, inherent) but like

[humble orbit]

all the nursefathers are terrible people but it is distinctly a scale going from callisto to matthias

[stoic fjord]

tbh I disagree

or... okay if this is in reference to them as parents I disagree

if it's more general I get that more

[humble orbit]

more general

[stoic fjord]

yeah that I can get

[worthy haven]

it is funny that the only one who did go all out with no regret and full steam was valencina which is an unfair comparison tho since she had to fight verg

[humble orbit]

as parents they all suck in their own unique ways that put them just about on par

[faint pivot]

B.M. for B.R.

[humble orbit]

but as people i feel callisto did the least horrible things for the express purpose of tormenting people and moreso out of a boundless love for corporism that goes. way above and beyond what is acceptable by any definition
and matthias is just a shithead on purpose dude like oh my god

[buoyant stream]

It's been a while since i read it and i dont want to scroll through like months off my twitter retweets buuuuut the idea is that Rien counters Val who counters Matthias who counters Rien

[atomic steeple]

trailer in how many hours?

[humble orbit]

who did more damage to the middle

roland or matthias

[stoic fjord]

something that makes me kind of feel something beyond "get fucked lmao" towards Matthias is the fact he was like. genuinely excited for a kid.

just like

how excited he was in the trailer... and in the CG...

however;

[crimson spindle]

He was excited for a kid like a kid is excited for a dog

[humble orbit]

it hurts, because i cant tell if its that he's excited for a kid in a like-- healthy and happy manner, or if it's "oh my god i have a captive audience to spew my bullshit at"

[stoic fjord]

yeah

[humble orbit]

KZA you hit that shit on the head

[crimson spindle]

He wasnt gonna actually take care of them properly

[vagrant dove]

Ehhhh, I'll still put them on par generally

I think also re Matthias and Kira- while he's the only one to directly attack his own apprentice, Rien knowingly sends Sora to her death, Callisto allows Albina to rip herself apart, Valencina puts Lucio in a position where he will die.

There's no real difference there, all the apprentices suffer and ultimately die bc of the nursefathers

[stoic fjord]

yeah

[stoic fjord]

I do think, to an extent, intent is different for Valencina, but I don't think it really matters

[crimson spindle]

Valencia at least didnt actually believe Lucio would die, because she's an overconfident shithead

[vagrant dove]

Oh also r.e Callisto, he doesn't really care about Albina's death beyond Art

[stoic fjord]

Callisto also did that to himself so honestly completely expected

[buoyant stream]

• Rien's fighting style being so unpredictable due to the Prescript gambling and not even him knowing what'll pop out next makes it impossible for Val to predict. But since matthias basically fights like an animal on pure instinct and on reactions he can brute force through it
• Meanwhile Val can just precog Matthias' moves and since her accel rounds make her attacks faster and faster combined with her fighting style being insanely good at drawn out 1v1s she eventually just shreds through

[stoic fjord]

ohhhh yeah that makes sense

[atomic steeple]

for ryoshu

[buoyant stream]

whether that was the intended reading from PM is unconfirmed but it's neat how it plays out

[humble orbit]

tbf callisto letting albina rip herself apart is a bit less of a fair example because they were never really properly child and parent, moreso... apprentice and teacher? there was obviously the underlying feeling of parenthood but i dont think callisto understood or wished to engage that fact at all, and although albina i feel probably longed for it, she never really seemed to mourn it as much as she did her lack of connection to others beyond callisto and nobody understanding how her artform was-- honest to god if you contrast what albina was working on with what Rufo says about the nature of art in the ring, it's rather upsetting how hard they dismiss her. she was literally doing exactly what their artform is trying to nail-- and she struck it almost flawlessly

[buoyant stream]

9h 30min-ish

[faint pivot]

Nah not yet, I wasn't online at thetime /lh

[vagrant dove]

Yeah I did clarify that with him not really giving a shit about her death, I realised it was a poor example

[humble orbit]

now mind you i am not defending callisto i'm saying he was

uncaring/indifferent and didnt provide that form of mentorship that albina really needed as a growing young adult

[atomic steeple]

thanks

[crimson spindle]

all of the nursefathers are ultimately self-obsessed

what they're obsessed about varied

[vagrant dove]

The scars you left on Albina will sublimate her into a masterpiece.

[crimson spindle]

but that's their fundamental underlying flaw

[vagrant dove]

Absolutely yeah

[humble orbit]

and that he doesnt understand how to connect with people through means other than his art, and his art is so horrifically gruesome that it often causes. extreme harm

he's a tone deaf nutcase with a massive sense of self importance but he isn't the same type of cruelty/evil as some of the other nursefathers-- at least to me

[crimson spindle]

they're completely full of themselves and have nothing left to fill with actual care for their charges

[stoic fjord]

I think what must be understood when I say Callisto is my poor little meow-meow is that I still think he's awful and terrible as a person he's just also really pathetic and sad

and that part of what makes him terrible is that he genuinely just has a thoroughly warped view of the world

whenever we see him, he's at least decently well-intentioned, I think

it's just that he's

y'know

[crimson spindle]

callisto is somehow the least morally agentic one and rien is in the competition

[stoic fjord]

...a ring maestro

[crimson spindle]

like he is losing the agency contest to the index

[humble orbit]

i think callisto is a piece of shit but even with how much i think he's a piece of shit, hearing rufo and emile benoit slandering the fuck out of his gallery had me a bit tilted
like ok hes a dipshit but there is undeniably artistic merit in what he did. hop off him .

[stoic fjord]

"turning my teenage daughter's pet dog into a living sword that cries in pain whenever it's swung is a great idea to memorialize it "

[humble orbit]

and especially how they all seemed to not really
know and/or care that albina existed

rufo goes on a 2 paragraph rant about how fauvism is trying to define what it means to be human and albina nailed that better than rufo herself

where does albina end and fascia begin. is albina even a person. is fascia a person. that's some fucking splendid art by their own definition

[crimson spindle]

part of the idea of the fingers is that they are all fundamentally hypocritical

[vagrant dove]

I spare some sympathy for Shiomi Yoru because like, horrible situation, but by and large the Nursefathers are all completely obssessed with their various chosen cause celebres-art, Getting Back To the Good Old Days, shallow materialism, a hollow belief in the Prescripts as an excuse to lay aside moral agency et al

[crimson spindle]

at the end of the day they're all shallow facades over corruption and power

[stoic fjord]

these guys all fucking suck but also lowk they had aura

[buoyant stream]

i think Callisto is just fundamentally unable to understand that other people don't tick like him at this point

[humble orbit]

honestly i cant say id be a whole lot better than shiomi if i were put in the same situation
i'd like to think i wouldnt emotionally abuse a child but also the sheer horror of the situation she was in would break anyone in some way sooner or later. question is how you'd break.

something something, lucio saying 'this house has a way of driving people mad'

[stoic fjord]

that it certainly does

[humble orbit]

its also so fucked up that everyone elses rooms were like. something they'd enjoy and fw
except for shiomi who got sealed in the fucking labyrinth

[vagrant dove]

Each of the Nursefathers are awful people and horrible tragedies in their own ways, although I do feel a lot more sorry for the apprentices

PoorSora

[stoic fjord]

also twining threads spoilers

||I think it's kind of interesting that like, out of everyone, the nursefather the other apprentices avoided most seemed to be Valencina. like, overlap wasn't common, but it seems like it still happened, but they avoided Valencina as much as possible||

[buoyant stream]

Shiomi was a prisoner to the house more than any of the others were tbh

[stoic fjord]

I don't think she's worse or anything I just think it goes to show how outwardly awful her particular kind of shittiness was even if not worse than the others

[humble orbit]

i mean undeniably that's because they were kids

kira killed a nightmarish amount of LCE researchers for Literally No Fucking Reason other than her dad was like "yo kira let's go butcher people like cattle lmao"
it was what she knew, what she saw as a form of reasonable socialization with her circle, and now that she's out of that circle she
seems to show real remorse? to some degree at least. she's willing to improve and grow and i think that's emblematic of what every other apprentice was robbed of
i think all of them could've had a second chance like her

[vagrant dove]

Yeah

[stoic fjord]

I think all of them deserved it

but I don't think all of them could've had it

[humble orbit]

if they'd be willing to take it is another story, but
they deserved another chance

[stoic fjord]

if you know what I mean

like, Sora, Lucio, Albina, Ren

[buoyant stream]

something something cycle of abuse

[vagrant dove]

Although I think Albina Lucio and Sora were unfortunately too ensared by the ideology of their finger to have taken that shot

[stoic fjord]

||all of them are in one way or another completely and utterly stuck||

[vagrant dove]

Ren by loyalty to ||Araya||

[humble orbit]

albina is the one i feel the least sorry for honestly
she seemed... mostly content with where she was, genuinely and wholeheartedly enjoying the art of corporism and seeking out callisto as a teacher. her life was fucked but i think if you pulled her away from it, she'd be far worse off-- if that makes sense

[crimson spindle]

🎶 you have heard it said, that hell is other people 🎶

[fickle crown]

Tbf Yi Sang did get Spicebush

Which could like

[buoyant stream]

holy backread

[humble orbit]

lucio had a chance, i think. sora, absolutely not
i mean. she literally manifested EGO out of devotion to the prescripts. I don't think she could live or function without them

but lucio, i think, in some world, could maybe be saved. just not the one we wound up in.

[stoic fjord]

I think it's like... that's because of Callisto's influence

[fickle crown]

Kinda be considered more of a main villain given the lasting consequences Dongbaek had on Yi Sang

[stoic fjord]

but also yeah at the time we found her

probably would not be able to readjust

[buoyant stream]

honestly i think it was a feedback loop

[humble orbit]

we also dont know what she was like before this-- but iirc Albina actually sought out Callisto deliberately to become his student? Source could be a fucking dream but

[fickle crown]

Ren is well... He's too devoted to his role as well

If anything he'd fare worse since he'd fail in both protecting his master AND in taking her title

[humble orbit]

ren earnestly did not give a shit about anything other than becoming the dihui star (exaggeration)

[neat cedar]

see

i din't think.that's dully true

[fickle crown]

I think it was more than that

[neat cedar]

because ren is the Monkey

[humble orbit]

huge shoutout to ren for being kind of a twat btw
"yeah sure i'll watch fixer videos uhuh" immidiately leaves the building as fast as possible

[stoic fjord]

I think Kira was the only one who was not too entrenched to be saved

[fickle crown]

Ren is someone that cares too much for a single person and the dihui star title is just a consolation prize when his role as a caregiver is over

[stoic fjord]

because of how surface level her ties to her nursefather were

[buoyant stream]

God the HoS are so fucking interesting in the way they are deeply messed up people i am glad we got more content from them than we have for any of the other canto's supporting casts

[fickle crown]

Like Ren is basically in a co-dependent relationship

[humble orbit]

yeah

[fickle crown]

It's just not nearly as obvious or elaborated on as the other finger kids

[humble orbit]

the house of spiders are simultaneously the most deeply upsetting shit ever but also i need like
slice of life comics of them. the dynamics the apprentices had were so

they were so

[fickle crown]

He's very much a slow burn character over Lucio and Kira

Human?

[stoic fjord]

||I like that we see Ren as like. a symbol of the fact that even with how much Araya has been hurt, she too causes someone else harm in the process||

[vagrant dove]

I don't think so honestly

As he himself says as he dies

I have failed to save my master… That is my woeful regret…

[stoic fjord]

I genuinely want to write like, slice of life fanfiction of the House of Spiders

[faint pivot]

You could say there's...nothing there...

[humble orbit]

i shouldve stressed i was exaggerating

[vagrant dove]

God the relationships in the house of spiders are so fucked up

[stoic fjord]

Goodbye.

[vagrant dove]

Hello?

[vagrant dove]

Genuinely the torment nexus

[neat cedar]

fucked up relationships

is why 4 and 9

[stoic fjord]

Kira needs to meet other people her age and make friends

[humble orbit]

YOU HAVE RECEIVED. A. VOICEMAIL.

[fickle crown]

I think Ren, Sora, and Albina would genuinely wither and die if they were in Kira's place

[neat cedar]

are.ym faves

[humble orbit]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cC6aqaDDVGc this single video and that one line from kira made me desperately need to see more of them

[fickle crown]

long tone

[buoyant stream]

reminds me of that time i was rambling to my friend about how cool canto 9 and the characters are before my brain processed "...wait. mayyybeeee i shouldn't be rambling about abusive family dynamics to my best friend whose family is filled with abusive dynamics"

[vagrant dove]

That stupid fucking renclair meme is still stuck in my brain

[humble orbit]

which theres like 7

[vagrant dove]

The drawing his sword one

[humble orbit]

god fucking

[stoic fjord]

100 thousand times

[humble orbit]

thats a whole ass actual chinese film you can Watch It

wuxia is fucking absurd

[stoic fjord]

the fact this is in character too 😭

[stoic fjord]

like from malnutrition or

[humble orbit]

kira would absolutely bother ren out of boredom. its like one of 3 activities she does when left unattended.

[fickle crown]

No, mentally and spiritually

[stoic fjord]

ohhhhhh okay

[humble orbit]

kira's body would physically reject lettuce i think

[stoic fjord]

Kira is like Feinberg

[fickle crown]

Ren would've failed in his task and he genuinely would not survive that, Albina would be deprived of her "art" and as of such become a failure, Sora is too devoted to ever be separated from her belief

[cosmic gorge]

Ren i thinks started out wanting to become the dihui star but after learning about how shit went down went all in being the adoptive son/big brother/caretaker of his time displaced master

[vagrant dove]

Try feeding Kira anything without corn syrup in it and she'll die

[stoic fjord]

eating a vegetable or drinking something other than soda would give her withdrawals and cause hand tremors

[fickle crown]

Only Lucio and Kira are particularly salvageable and Lucio is six feet under

[humble orbit]

shes eaten nothing but styrofoam packing peanuts covered in cheeto dust for like 12 years if you tried to feed her lettuce she'd vomit uncontrollably until passing out

[unique bane]

Iirc also it references japanese colonialism

[fickle crown]

Kira replacing her IV drip with nacho cheese

[humble orbit]

korean, but close

[fickle crown]

?

[cosmic gorge]

Nono

[fickle crown]

The Japanese colonized Korea

[stoic fjord]

nnnnno

[fickle crown]

Like

[humble orbit]

oh in that sense yes

[cosmic gorge]

Dongrang was a japanese colonizer collaborator

[stoic fjord]

it's Japaneze colonialism of korea

[humble orbit]

sorry the phrasing on that fucked me up a bit

[stoic fjord]

...colonization

not

fuck the english language it's technically my second language I'm excused

(I cannot speak my first language)

[vagrant dove]

Speaking of canto 9, I think my favourite moment is still that second fight with ||Araya|| in part 3

The sheer fucking pathos of that reveal

Also the pinky nursefather's theme has grown on me

[stoic fjord]

||"ARAYA IS WAITING FOR NO ONE!"||

that shit genuinely took my breath away

[cosmic gorge]

Mood

I can but i am not proficient

I was raised on english cable tv

[buoyant stream]

i had to take a genuine, like, 1 hour break after that stage

[humble orbit]

i love the house of spiders so fucking much
its half-and-half the most beautifully tragic story of horrifically broken people and "kira would actually get tremors if she drank unflavored water"

[worthy haven]

gotta be muga for me. Just that whole fight with the foking ost

[buoyant stream]

the canto fucked me up

[stoic fjord]

real

[neat cedar]

The part of this camt0

that fucked me up.major

is the end of part 2

just

[buoyant stream]

This canto did not let you breathe

[stoic fjord]

||the fucking empty safe made my face drop from neutral to instant despair||

[neat cedar]

||That fuck ass safe, and Rien's fuck ass lil remarks||

[keen palm]

Kira doing Asmongold level unhygienic shit

[stoic fjord]

||also "That was really effective."||

[cosmic gorge]

How Kira remained buff is a question for the ages

Maybe that corn syrup was doing extra work

[humble orbit]

to be fair matthias was no better that man probably smelled like unfettered ass

[vagrant dove]

Her room's probably biohazardous

[worthy haven]

it was such a good rugpull for ryo

[buoyant stream]

||the safe being empty was absolutely inevitable but you STILL just hoped so desperately it wouldnt be||

[vagrant dove]

Like you know there's stacks and stacks of the city version of White Monster

[stoic fjord]

that's what made it infinitely worse 😭

[vagrant dove]

Plates everywhere

[stoic fjord]

cans still have residue inside so there's random sticky spots from spills

[humble orbit]

to be fair we see her ""room""
its a fucking beanbag chair and a ps1 completely surrounded by empty ramen cups

[stoic fjord]

also that yeah she doesn't have a room

it's just a little space in the corridor

[humble orbit]

which is insane

[neat cedar]

||It hit hard for me becauae i've felt that type of like helpless dread before about wanting a family.memver ti be safe and then.uncovering how much they've been hurt in ways you can't really deal.with||

[crimson spindle]

because none of the rooms were designed to actually raise a child here

[vagrant dove]

They were designed to raise a weapon and teaching supplements/fuel for Ryoshu

[humble orbit]

like .i cant talk that much shit though i mean . i
i have clinical depression ive had days where ive been living like kira

[neat cedar]

||That mix of outrage and utter hopelessness into a fuckin numbing sensation||

[stoic fjord]

real as fuck lowk

[buoyant stream]

i also think that the fact that the fights against the different fingers all being back to back was some absolutely brutal pacing with nasty cliffhangers. especially the switch from thumb 1 to ring 2 was FOUL

[stoic fjord]

but it's like

for her, it's genuinely not even her, this is just how she's learned to live

[worthy haven]

||yee. I really thought araya was safe aswell......until that moment. And like that instantturn of "Wait...."||

[stoic fjord]

this is what she knows

[vagrant dove]

I've got ADHD, so mustering up the energy to do basic tasks is a fucking herculean struggle sometimes

[stoic fjord]

REALLLLL

[humble orbit]

me staring at the 4th bottle of canada dry that i know i should put in the garbage and, in a haze of depression, shoving it under the bed

[vagrant dove]

I want to do things that please the dopamine receptors in my brain, not dust and shit

[ebon forge]

Oh yeah imo the best way to make a pmoon ttrpg is to have a few basic stats for actually doing shit and then once you get stronger than a certain baseline you replace that with sin resonances

[buoyant stream]

yep

mood

[cosmic gorge]

Canto 9 made me think of things id rather not think about regarding my familial situations lol
(The lol is me choking back some stuff i dont wanna think about at 8am)

[cloud wadi]

I beat Ricardo hard

[neat cedar]

but ye, narratively, I l9ve canto 9 because it's a non stop.gut puncg that rewarda you for.going back and reinterpreting the story from.like

[humble orbit]

i've got ADHD + OCD + 2 types of depression or some bullshit and i'm autistic as hell so it's the most intense possible form of suffering you can inflict upon me to make me do things like "please run the washing machine" or "please wash the dishes"

[neat cedar]

every anglr

[cloud wadi]

In 19 turns

fiejdbise

[stoic fjord]

20 plates on my desk

20 bottles lying on the floor

20 socks strewn everywhere

[vagrant dove]

Audhd 🤝

[neat cedar]

and often you come away with new insights each time

[cloud wadi]

I think I’ll retry once I get Ryoshu capstone

[buoyant stream]

yeah

[neat cedar]

mechanically, i think.canto 9 was the most fun.and creative they've been with fight design

[ebon forge]

ADHD is hell especially with depression

[humble orbit]

i have been putting off cleaning the underside of my bed for multiple weeks i. really need to
but i look down there and. its not asmongold bad there's no life down there, but it is infact a dark souls dungeon