Project Moon Games: Lobcorp, Ruina, Etc.

[cloud wadi]

fairly sure this was Dias

[split beacon]

Red eyes and brown hair

[cloud wadi]

yeah

that's Dias

[crimson spindle]

"Ein Sof, the Atik Yomin ("Ancient of Days"), emanates the sefirot into the cosmic womb of the Ayin in a manner that results in the created universe. "

(ayin mpreg)

[split beacon]

lmfao

[cloud wadi]

Dias has red eyes and brown hair

[vagrant dove]

I think that is Dias yeah

[split beacon]

tch, alright alright

[cloud wadi]

yes I've noticed the similarity between her and carmen before lmfao

[split beacon]

it's probably Dias

[vagrant dove]

Since the context iirc is her hiring them for a funny 20 minute trip

(Smoke war)

[crimson spindle]

dias is inverse carmen

like, very intentionally

[cloud wadi]

Carmen is very consistently constantly warm no matter what

except shortly before her suicide

[split beacon]

I mean the Ein Sof is the Light no

[cloud wadi]

DIas can be psycho if she wants

[split beacon]

but also Carmen is now one with the Light

[crimson spindle]

she's a fundamentally selfish woman who cares ultimately only for her own desires and wants to usurp the city

she's a mirror to carmen

[stoic fjord]

evil carmen

[split beacon]

Evil?

[crimson spindle]

(she's also ozymandias, king of kings)

(and the pharoah who will not let her people go)

[vagrant dove]

Would evil carmen be represented by one sin instead of white night, following traditional conventions /*j

[split beacon]

if anything what we've learned is that selfishness and selflessness aren't so clearly cut as good and evil

Carmen was selfless

and look what she's up to!

[crimson spindle]

that's why the udjat are egypt themed, the joke is that dias will not let moses go

[stoic fjord]

I know

I'm being silly

[neat cedar]

oh

fuckin

mood

. . .

[crimson spindle]

ozyman-Dias

[split beacon]

although the Udjat also represent something else

[neat cedar]

i don't know

wby

it took me

[split beacon]

which I think I want to put out there

[neat cedar]

this long

to reakize Moses

was named after

the fuckin biblical.moses

[split beacon]

which is that if we're using Judeochristian symbolism all the time for the Light and Abnormalities

and we ARE

[cloud wadi]

Dias will one day be struck by plagues

[split beacon]

there's inherent tension in how that opposes and reframes the Gods of the City named after pagan gods

[crimson spindle]

....fuckin

is the upcoming City Mass Death event the fucking firstborn plague

[split beacon]

Hermes, the Eye of Udjat, etc...

[atomic steeple]

"Curse of Ra!"

[vagrant dove]

Moses needs to get gregor to lock in so she can escape from Dias' bullshit, trust

[split beacon]

Gregor buddy I need you to lock the fuck in and summon a

a

a plague of locusts...

[stoic fjord]

okay it wouldn't be locusts if it was him

[split beacon]

okay they're verminous insects

[crimson spindle]

"About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. Every firstborn in Egypt will die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn of the slave girl, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well. There will be loud wailing throughout Egypt—worse than there has ever been or ever will be again."

[split beacon]

Ungeziefer doesn't exclusively mean cockroaches

[stoic fjord]

oh right yeah mb

[crimson spindle]

also like 5/10 plagues are vermin of some kind

[split beacon]

frogs

[atomic steeple]

Gregor needs to unwrap more

[stoic fjord]

who said this one

[crimson spindle]

frogs, gnats, flies, locusts

[vagrant dove]

He does have five fingers

All i'm saying

[stoic fjord]

we barely fucking made it through the first time no the fuck we do not

[split beacon]

actually let's just hash it all out

the nile will turn to blood

we got frogs, gnats, flies

pestilence of the livestock

[crimson spindle]

boils

[split beacon]

boils

hail

locusts

HEY

THREE DAYS OF DARKNESS

[crimson spindle]

3 days of darkness

which already fucking happened

[split beacon]

and then the death of the firstborn

[stoic fjord]

wait

[vagrant dove]

Flies might have happened during the smoke war

[stoic fjord]

what if it's reverse order

[split beacon]

nah because the death of the firstborn is probably your mass casualty event

[stoic fjord]

ohhhh wait yeah

[split beacon]

so if the 3 days of darkness are the Dark Days then we've BEEN experiencing some plagues

[crimson spindle]

....bloodbath

[stoic fjord]

wait so then everything else has already happened

[crimson spindle]

the nile to blood

[split beacon]

yeah

that's not a bad point actually kza

Wrist Cutter

[crimson spindle]

and the River

from which abnos are fished

[split beacon]

could Frogs be fairies

[crimson spindle]

or that fucking toad

[split beacon]

that fucking frog I hate

true

gnats from the dust, dust explosion, ABS?

feels like these are getting harder to relate to a specific abnormality

Hail I could work with, that's Ice Queen

[crimson spindle]

anyway I think even if it's not the immediate upcoming event

moses is back in the story because we're going to see breaking away from dias as part of the Limbus Story

and it's going to Cost Everybody

[split beacon]

oh absolutely

[vagrant dove]

I think something is going to throw a major spanner in her plans yeah

[split beacon]

Dias is going to have to let our people go

[vagrant dove]

Whether it's us or something else

[crimson spindle]

because Dias doesn't give up on what she wants

[split beacon]

who's the pharaoh's firstborn though

[vagrant dove]

Also might be Moses here, I think

[gentle mulch]

when dias gets bored and decides another district should stop existing (i have 2 Ahn to my name)

[cloud wadi]

When will we get to part the lake

[crimson spindle]

Han Hee-joon

[cloud wadi]

And cross the seabed to the other side

[crimson spindle]

The one who stayed when the others left

[vagrant dove]

Dias driving her gold plated limo or whatever through the divided great lake after us

[split beacon]

Kill the ocean

[cosmic gorge]

KILL THE OCEAN

[vagrant dove]

I think Faust's Canto|| might involve dealing with that revelation that Dias outright sabotaged parts of Operation Spider Pyre and arranged the whole thing via contacting Rien in the first place||

[crimson spindle]

KILL THE OCEAN

[vagrant dove]

KILL THE OCEAN

[stoic fjord]

KILL THE OCEAN

[cosmic gorge]

Im putting his ass i Fultimator later

[worthy haven]

KILL THE OCEAN

[split beacon]

Fate’s Favored Child vs infinite karmic backlash

[cosmic gorge]

Free for all to inflict in their fabula ultima games

[crimson spindle]

one. two. three. your karma returns as the rumbling of the earth.

[split beacon]

You know that EGO is kinda weird now that Index IDs exist and also have a karma* theme

[cosmic gorge]

Why are they lust again

[vagrant dove]

We're probably going to have to leave the City (the Inferno) behind at some point anyways, I imagine that's the point we break from Dias and go to Purgatorio

[cosmic gorge]

Whats the ideology being spread

[split beacon]

Because it’s false karma

It’s interpreting karmic weight of actions as “if you attack me and mine I’ll fucking kill you”

A bloodthirsty Buddha

This shit ain’t nothing to MFE

Last one who ran out on the pack got turned into an example, stop fuckin’ playing with me

[vagrant dove]

Smoking that straight abno pack, watered with the blood of 400 clerks

[tired canyon]

...wait

[split beacon]

WE SMOKIN THAT ENKEPHALIN PACK

[tired canyon]

limbus company ||wiped out the house of spiders||

does

does that mean that

that ||we get all of their bullshit relics||

[split beacon]

Yes

Mentioned in Udjat Vanguard Outis’s uptie story even

[vagrant dove]

||valencina's is in gregor's stomach so uh||

||good luck?||

[stoic fjord]

so like

there's no way Verg survives the end of inferno right

[split beacon]

Considering he has to leave at the foot of Mt Purgatorio

Yeah he’s cooked champ

[vagrant dove]

Yeah I think he's cooked as fuck

[stoic fjord]

fuck death flags bruh this is a death parade

Red color title is cursed as fuck

[vagrant dove]

He can only guide us through the Inferno

[stoic fjord]

if you're red, you fucking die

[dusty sigil]

I’m pretty sure he leaves at the end of purgatorio

Not the beginning

[stoic fjord]

either way I feel like he might be cooked

[split beacon]

Uhhh fuck

[tired canyon]

||i know a few people who that wouldnt discourage as much as you would think||

[dusty sigil]

He’s only barded from paradise

[split beacon]

I forgor my Dante lmao

[dusty sigil]

Our boy has a few more cantos in him

He’s absolutely gonna die though

No doubt about that

[vagrant dove]

Oh wait, he dips out from the last four cantos of purgatorio, doesn't he

[split beacon]

I think specifically he can’t go to the Earthly Paradise at the top of Mt Purgatory

[vagrant dove]

Yeah he's so fucking dead

[dusty sigil]

Only real question is if Charon joins him or not

[split beacon]

Vroom vroom

[vagrant dove]

Charon locks in and becomes the Red Bus

[stoic fjord]

Charon being named for the ferryman of the underworld

I honestly doubt she'll even make it out of inferno. like. idk I just have a bad feeling

[dusty sigil]

I mean someone’s gotta drive the bus

[split beacon]

I doubt she dies

[neat cedar]

. . .

KZA

[split beacon]

She could end up stuck though

[neat cedar]

if

the olague

[stoic fjord]

okay yeah true

[neat cedar]

is a ppague of firstborns

uh

that bodes

very poorly

[cloud wadi]

charon is god

[neat cedar]

for a certain sinner's family

extremely poorly

[split beacon]

It bodes poorly for everyone but I’mma keep it real

[cloud wadi]

isn't grgor a firstborn

[neat cedar]

I more mean

Outis

[stoic fjord]

is this a genuine theory or

oohhhhh fuck

[split beacon]

It’ll be 1:1 with WWII in other Sinner stories

[cloud wadi]

no

[crimson spindle]

well, we've got moses on our side, we'll be passed over

it's Fine

[split beacon]

Also yeah we’re the Jews in this scenario

Heh

[vagrant dove]

Just mark the door with some lamb blood

[neat cedar]

Here's hoping

[vagrant dove]

Easy fix

[cosmic gorge]

Whose our lamb

[neat cedar]

rhe sheep

[vagrant dove]

Uhhh we find and fucking butcher hopkins

[cloud wadi]

everyone will be fine except for gregor

[neat cedar]

dante needs ti fuckin draw

[split beacon]

Draw me a sheep

[cloud wadi]

he's fucking dead

[split beacon]

Gregor may be very dead

[crimson spindle]

don quixote

[split beacon]

But he’ll tech it tho

[neat cedar]

he'll get better

[dusty sigil]

Ok yah checked again, Vergilius stops guiding Dante at the top of purgatory’s mountain, and then soon disappears and is replaced by Beatrice

Then Dante enters paradise with Beatrice

[split beacon]

Gregor can tech ptsd

Loss of limb

Everything but survivor’s guilt really

The Angel of Death has nothing

[vagrant dove]

This is why my goat needs the hohenheim id

[neat cedar]

i don't think doing the roland manta

is really

[vagrant dove]

Stack more survivor's guilt

[stoic fjord]

hrm

[neat cedar]

"teching"

lol

[stoic fjord]

with the whole thing of primordial man

[split beacon]

No that’s teching it

You just say no

[stoic fjord]

I feel like that could be seen as "firstborn" in some way

[neat cedar]

also realizing another thing

[split beacon]

If the Angel of Death tries to put hands on you you just do 1+2

[neat cedar]

i always thought that Greg's refusal to like

[stoic fjord]

but I don't really know what that could mean or if it's a good theory at all

[neat cedar]

get extremely emotional.and atuff

was a defense emchanism

now i realize it still is

[split beacon]

Absolutely yes I’m joking around

[vagrant dove]

It's 100% repression so he doesn't awaken The Arm and hurt people

[neat cedar]

butnuh

not for him

[split beacon]

It is also for him

[neat cedar]

tru

but i def think innhis mind

it's more for everyone else

[split beacon]

The monstrous vermin self is 1:1 with Gregor being honest with himself and his life

[vagrant dove]

Gregor was even trying to warn ||Valencina||

[split beacon]

And going “FUCK DUDE THIS SHIT IS ASS”

[vagrant dove]

And ||she'd been torturing him||

[neat cedar]

the ugly crashout he needs

man looked into a mirrot when he saw Lucio and valencina

and he could not cope

[vagrant dove]

||valencina didn't help with that repetition of GO FOR THE HEART||

[split beacon]

It’s internalizing life kicking you around for fun for years as “actually I’m the bad guy. and thugging it out instead of asking for help makes me virtuous and overcomes my inherently evil need for help from others that drags them down”

[vagrant dove]

||or the other stuff. Any of the other stuff really||

[neat cedar]

i like how only like

one streamer in a reaction comp.i watched

actually mentioned that

[split beacon]

The insect monster is one hundred percent how having this happen you makes you think about yourself

[neat cedar]

hell.i didn't even think about it

ye

[split beacon]

And even when you’re able to control it and thug it out, the part of you that’s writhing in pain and suffering is still twisted and monstrous

While you’re trying to remain normal and human outwardly

Source: I swear I didn’t start shaking a little when 9-45 happened

[neat cedar]

yeeeeeah

[vagrant dove]

Yeah it's somewhat similiar to Heathcliff's distortion in that way

[neat cedar]

this cantp

really do be looking people dead in the eyes

[split beacon]

They’re both responses to getting your ass beat by life and going “actually I’m the problem, because that way I still have control”

[neat cedar]

mhmm

[split beacon]

The difference is that Heathcliff has processed it by going “ok so I’m the bad guy now what”

[neat cedar]

heath, rodya, amd greg are absolutely

[split beacon]

Gregor is still clinging to the idea he can force himself to be at least mostly human

Mostly correct

[neat cedar]

the sinners withnthe worst self image

[split beacon]

Gregor is wayyyy deeper in the hole than Heathcliff tbh

[cosmic gorge]

Im literally greg

[vagrant dove]

Mhm. (I also didn't have a Reaction to 9-45 at all <- liar)

[cosmic gorge]

Maybe cosplaying gregor samsa in college was a bad idea

[neat cedar]

absolutely

[worthy haven]

we know hermann is takes the roll of gregs father but i am really curious when/if we get to meet grete (prob in a flashback).

[neat cedar]

"When your 9 cantos deep and start asking uncomfy questions about why you like certain sinners so much"

[split beacon]

Greg-bud still needs to figure out he’s in pain before he can start figuring out how to be whoever he wants to be and not the creature he was designed to become

[crimson spindle]

gregor is trapped in stasis

metamorphosis, interrupted

[neat cedar]

a transformation

[crimson spindle]

he clings to who he thinks he was because he cannot change to who he is becoming

[vagrant dove]

He's like Rodya in that he doesn't really feel comfortable with getting emotional (for different reasons, admittedly), so tries to be the Fun Guy

[split beacon]

Yeah he’s stuck because the first step is unimpaling yourself from where you’ve been trapped, in pain, in that moment forever

[neat cedar]

mirrored by a hatching

[split beacon]

And that REALLY HURTS

[crimson spindle]

he cannot recognize that he isn't that person any more

[worthy haven]

Prob why we have not heard anything regarding grete so far aswell

[crimson spindle]

because he only sees two fates

being who he was

[neat cedar]

i wonder ifnwe're going to have more

[worthy haven]

since they in the book they did have a pretty strong book prior

[neat cedar]

greg/sinclair moments

[crimson spindle]

and becoming THE KAISER OF VERMIN

[split beacon]

It’s either you stay who you were in the moment you were hurt

Or

You let the bad thoughts win (admit you’re in agony)

[crimson spindle]

and yeah that's why he and rodya are a pair

[vagrant dove]

His big sin is Sloth after all, so it's fitting that he's kind of eternally stuck as the cracked shell until some external force breaks it for him or he starts to heal

[neat cedar]

Suddenly, one day. . .

[crimson spindle]

they're in the part of their story where they can't accept that they aren't what they cling to being

[split beacon]

Suddenly, one day

You wake up and realize you NEED HELP

[crimson spindle]

rodya cannot stop being special or she is nothing

[vagrant dove]

Rodion please get therapy

[neat cedar]

Dante is trying

[cosmic gorge]

Not covered by the contract

[vagrant dove]

Each one of your ids is more concerning than the last

[split beacon]

And the vermin flutter out from where they’ve been hiding in your beds

[stoic fjord]

I definitely didn't choke up and start crying a little at node 9-45

[neat cedar]

but sadly, gas to work on sheer vibes

[split beacon]

The ugliness can no longer be contained

[stoic fjord]

me with rodion

[neat cedar]

#-90SP

[crimson spindle]

either she is the happiest fun loving luckiness princess girl in the world

or she is nothing

empty

[neat cedar]

notnjist empty

[worthy haven]

Rodion must be tearing into herself after this canto. She is just so normal opposed to basically everyone. The comparison complex xd

[neat cedar]

hungry

[cosmic gorge]

Also, Gesselschaft spoilers recontextualizes Faust's pettiness and defensiveness with others

[stoic fjord]

me after I realize I genuinely have no feelings of self worth if I don't feel exceptional and superior

[neat cedar]

Rodion'ssad ids are all personifiwd by an intense need

[vagrant dove]

Knight of Despair is still probably the saddest of the bunch because she is special there. She's a fucking cracked Agent- but she can never see that.

It's no wonder she got that ego honestly

[neat cedar]

that she cannot satisfy

[split beacon]

The ||Ungeziefer Kaiser|| is a great metaphor because it’s not, like, a real thing, it’s the monster that exists in your mind if you have the problems Gregor has where you’re terrified of people seeing the inherent ugliness and sickness within you

[neat cedar]

Kodya and Si Rodion

[split beacon]

It’s what you have to hide

[vagrant dove]

Yeah uh

[split beacon]

Forever

[neat cedar]

are the big ones for that

[vagrant dove]

I have had to reconsider why I like Gregor so much

Which is Fun

[stoic fjord]

ME FR!!!!!!!

no but seriously I just. idk. I was never able to just be satisfied with anything I did

no matter how good it was

[neat cedar]

My fav cantos are 9, 7, and 4

[stoic fjord]

no matter how perfect my grades or whatever else

[neat cedar]

and i refuse to analyze why that is the case

[stoic fjord]

it simply was not enough

anyways I'm going to stop thinking about that now

[crimson spindle]

cantos 1 2 3 are all about being trapped in a moment forever, unable to move on

cantos 4 5 6 are about being trapped by someone, being unable to let them go

[stoic fjord]

yooooo same

(I lowkey need hella therapy)

[neat cedar]

like saude said

you need to move on

[split beacon]

Like personally I’m finally getting to the place where I can admit I have a horrible sense of self-loathing and fear that people will ostracize me and be disgusted if I’m not uncompromisingly perfect

[neat cedar]

from.that burning village

[crimson spindle]

cantos 7 8 9 are about being trapped by family, unable to either leave or tolerate staying

10 11 12 are gonna be something else

[stoic fjord]

I can almost sort of face it but only by joking about it in a detached sort of manner so not really

[neat cedar]

10, 11, 12

trapped by society

[stoic fjord]

I think that applies to like, all three

Gregor, Sinclair, and Rodion

[worthy haven]

maybe

[stoic fjord]

more metaphorically for the other two but still there

[neat cedar]

or some grander external social force

[split beacon]

10/11/12 are going to be about outward faces and interacting with The Mass I think

[neat cedar]

ye

[vagrant dove]

On brand, her ego list is also concerning as fuck- Indicant's Trial, Pursuance- a lot of the reason she's unable to really love herself, no natter how materialistic she is, is getting everyone in her village killed.

Rodion seems to believe, even if she won't reckon with it, that she should be punished for her "crime"

[neat cedar]

yeee

[worthy haven]

I think it might be more trapping yourself into the expectations of others

[split beacon]

Or alternatively, justice

And judgment

[worthy haven]

oh

[neat cedar]

mhmmm

[vagrant dove]

Which is probably why she's fundamentally unsatisfied with everything she has, and the momwnt she isn't distracting herself with gambling and food the Memory hits

[neat cedar]

jidgement def is firring

dor those three

[split beacon]

Which is why my goat Rodion will finally have her pop off moment

[worthy haven]

i think judgement would def fit the most

[stoic fjord]

one might say

she is fixated on.

upon.

crime and punishment...

[worthy haven]

the next three people up

are all people

who have eviscerated others in their pursuits

[neat cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/csi-sunglasses-deal-with-it-look-cool-gif-3856759

[split beacon]

All three are on trial for their actions no

[vagrant dove]

https://tenor.com/view/say-that-again-gif-968943876633031890

[stoic fjord]

"unfulfilled by everything you have because you don't feel like you deserve anything"

ahahahahahah okay Rodion is feeling a little too relatable right now

[neat cedar]

feel free to take a walk

[stoic fjord]

I'm fine

I think

[vagrant dove]

Yeah, uh. I do actually feel that one

[cloud wadi]

trapped by the STATE sounds about right for canto 10 11 12

[stoic fjord]

true

[vagrant dove]

I think she might be going up my sinner list

[cloud wadi]

the most powerful force in the city

[vagrant dove]

No reason!

[cloud wadi]

the State

[neat cedar]

was not.kidding when i said " i am.not analyzing this"

[karmic escarp]

fueling my theory that the sinner pair ups for c9 p3 were what they were for a reason

[stoic fjord]

yeah I think I am going to just set this topic down for another time

[neat cedar]

ye

[stoic fjord]

oooo true

hrm

[worthy haven]

Hmm I think this doesnt really fit onto Faust unless you are kinda hard ignoring the themes of the book and going full gesellschaft only

[vagrant dove]

Same

But yeah the sinner list

[stoic fjord]

what's the link for Faust, Ishmael, and Sinclair then?

[worthy haven]

OH

[neat cedar]

depends donyou consider "God' to be different from.the State

[stoic fjord]

and for Don, Hong Lu, and Yi Sang

[worthy haven]

Maybe instead of judgement it could also be redemption maybe? The question if these three people should be forgiven

[neat cedar]

in this instance

[cloud wadi]

but yeah

to be exact

[worthy haven]

In this case ye I really would

[cloud wadi]

10 11 and 12 is probably societal expectations and pressure

[stoic fjord]

and for Outis, Meursault, and Ryoshu...

hrmmmm

[cloud wadi]

which is pertinent to all three

[neat cedar]

mhmm

[vagrant dove]

Don, HL and YS have all tried to escape from reality in different ways

[worthy haven]

In faust god/his side never directly exerts pressure onto faust

[karmic escarp]

stasis! i think anyway i just had the revelation

[cloud wadi]

geschellshaft certainly exerts pressure on our faust

[karmic escarp]

they were all forced to watch or resolved to just watch

[neat cedar]

and thusnthey face the manchild

[vagrant dove]

1. By casting off memories and embracing delusion, 2. By straight up dissassociating from the world, and 3. By burying himself in mirror tech

[cloud wadi]

and they are a Society

[neat cedar]

grge, rodya, and heathnwere stuck.in their past wrongs

[stoic fjord]

ohhhh shit yeah

[worthy haven]

that is true but again I am not sure about that angle since it would ignore a lot about the themes about the actual book

[neat cedar]

and thus they faced a "back in my day" war vet

[vagrant dove]

Kira also buries herself in something to distract from her lack of emotional fulfilment and the world around her

Media

[neat cedar]

whi can't see the present

only the past or her imagined future

[jaunty jay]

💭 With how Faust and probably Mersault changing due to outside pressure, I wonder if Outis hypes up Dante because her previous group/employer flat-out can't trust her enough/didn't feel enough respect from her.

[worthy haven]

Faust as a book is really not at all about society, social pressure etc

[stoic fjord]

Ryoshu, Meursault, and Outis facing ||Araya||...

[stoic fjord]

from what I understand neither Canto 5 or 7 really adhered entirely to the themes of their source texts either, at least in terms of what they conclude?

[worthy haven]

They could go a different route for sure

[crimson spindle]

faust, ish, sinclair: the most grounded of the sinners and thus they gotta face the wacko art guy

[vagrant dove]

8 doesn't either

Iirc

[stoic fjord]

aye

[neat cedar]

those cantos are more

in conversation, i think

[stoic fjord]

I feel like there has to be more than that but I'm not sure

[neat cedar]

i'd aeguw the same for canto 9 even

[crimson spindle]

or possibly, in my theory, the three sinners most used to having someone try to push them into being something they aren't

[stoic fjord]

true

[karmic escarp]

my brain keeps catching on ||sinclair essentially summoning 'another self' being comparable to gesselschaft somehow but that kinda leaves ish the odd man out||

[crimson spindle]

because callisto is the parent that pushes you into a thing

[stoic fjord]

ooohhhh true

[karmic escarp]

WAIT

YOURE RIGHT

[crimson spindle]

even if you don't want it

[vagrant dove]

Yeah that tracks

[crimson spindle]

tiger dad

[neat cedar]

mhmm

[worthy haven]

That is true but for faust specifically I do feel kinda apprehensive since the whole gesellschaft as society thing is so far out

[cloud wadi]

I'd argue that the book faust also is about society and societal expectations

[stoic fjord]

so all that leaves is this

[cloud wadi]

since a big theme is the pursuit of power

[karmic escarp]

family

[cloud wadi]

and how it traps people

[karmic escarp]

meur's mother, odysseus's whole motivation in the odyssey

[stoic fjord]

I mean

they are a society. the rational self-interest society. the rational self-interest society which controls those under it in exchange for promises of knowledge and prestige if they just do it right

[crimson spindle]

ryo/meur/outis: parental issues trio

Ryoshu duh
meur: mom
outis: another mom who has abandoned her child for reasons

[neat cedar]

outis, sault, and ryoshu vs ||araya, a personification of essentially childhood resentment||

ye

[vagrant dove]

Ryoshu, Outis and Meursault all have family that's missing from their lives

Odysseus meets his dead mother in the afterlife in book 11 and is unable to hug her, fun fact

[cloud wadi]

rational pursuit of power gives you th ability to change the world and society

but it leaves you empty and unfulfilled

[worthy haven]

sry I mean that there isnt really like something comparable in faust to them*

[stoic fjord]

ohhhh okay

[worthy haven]

ye but this isnt really what the pursuit of power in faust is about I would argue

[jaunty jay]

Faust extremely catches my attention after Canto 9, but already before with her "bottle with pink inside" icon, and playing the role of Mon3tr in her Arknights EGO (Kal'tsit calling the shots).

[cosmic gorge]

A wronged loved one

[stoic fjord]

KJH finding ways to hint at future character stuff even inside the true limited collab

[dusty sigil]

Ok now I know people have flat out forgotten canto 4 because why am I seeing Dongrang in the “pretty decent guy” camp of villains

[cloud wadi]

next true limited collab will be with Nier

[dusty sigil]

Dong “I have decided to become worse” Rang

[neat cedar]

tbf

comparatively

[worthy haven]

Faust is very much a book in the movement of Sturm und Drang

[vagrant dove]

Which you could say is quite similiar to how Araya and Ryoshu can only meet in the... inbetween

[neat cedar]

he is very like

[stoic fjord]

okay I sort of understand it compared to like. the elders of canto 8

[neat cedar]

mundanely evil

[cloud wadi]

nier collabs with literally anyon for reasons defying all logic and expectations

[karmic escarp]

nier a decade old at this point and still getting dragged out like a dead horse

[stoic fjord]

we already have 2B faust

[vagrant dove]

What???

[stoic fjord]

we are immune to the Nier collab

[worthy haven]

afterall Faust is a work stepped in romanticism

[neat cedar]

like he is not decent

[karmic escarp]

people be like 'motives make the man' no they dont the sellout is coming

[neat cedar]

atball

[crimson spindle]

dongrang pettily betrayed his colleagues for career advancement ultimately

which is shitty

[neat cedar]

butnif this is meant to be a comparative list

[vagrant dove]

Like he's straight up the guy who goes "i'm not distorting anymore, i'm embracing my role in corporate evil and want to obliterate my past" and then manifests e.g.o out of that

[crimson spindle]

but it's like, exagerrated office politics shitty

[cosmic gorge]

What about a second 2B faust

[neat cedar]

^

[stoic fjord]

compared to like, Ahab

and like

the Erlking

and the Xianren

[neat cedar]

hrll

[stoic fjord]

bro's kinda chill in comparison

[neat cedar]

compared to limbus kromer

[stoic fjord]

is he okay? no! fuck him!

[neat cedar]

Like he sucks, but in a very banal kind of way

[crimson spindle]

and ultimately while he's the target the person yi sang needs to overcome is himself

not dongrang

[vagrant dove]

Papa Don is probably the most upstanding canto antag with Sonya behind him, come to think of it. The list is very short

[stoic fjord]

||but also he's not nearly as bad as Granny Jia "I am going to force my grandchild to watch an entire crowd of people get brutally slaughtered by horrific monsters" Mu||

[crimson spindle]

dongrang is secondary

[neat cedar]

eeeeeeeh

yes and no

[cloud wadi]

sonya may be an idealistic communist revolutionary

but he also kills peopel for money

[neat cedar]

road to hell is paved with good intentions

[stoic fjord]

closest to good intentions, but you know what they say about the road to hell

[cloud wadi]

and works with literal fascists

[crimson spindle]

also dongrang scores points because he goes out standing on business

[stoic fjord]

okay we do it too

[stoic fjord]

okay yeah we don't do this bit

[crimson spindle]

doesn't regret shit all the way to the end

[neat cedar]

yeah

Dongrang is like "Yeah insuck"

[cosmic gorge]

Compared to Gaslighter Supreme and || the Snuff Film Connoisseurs || Dongrang is tame

[stoic fjord]

true E.G.Oist

[cloud wadi]

yeah but we aren't idealistic communist revolutionaries and we work with the face of plutocratic oligarchy instead

[neat cedar]

mhmm

[crimson spindle]

no moment of collapse or having his worldview shattered

[stoic fjord]

okay yeah true

[crimson spindle]

you win and kill him, but he doesn't change a bit

[vagrant dove]

True, I'll rephrase that

[cloud wadi]

our closest allies are like let's see

[neat cedar]

#FuckThatCow

[cloud wadi]

a Wing CEO

the richest woman in the city

[neat cedar]

A merc for Hire in verg

[worthy haven]

Faust as work at least from how I understand it and interpret it is a work based around the themes of Religion, love, Sciene (and the pursuit of it), Hope/nihilism, knowledge, Striving and Redemption

[stoic fjord]

we've already ticked all those boxes, can't retread old ground /j

[vagrant dove]

Library of Ruina 2, now on the nintendo switch

[stoic fjord]

Hi I'm roland from Library of Ruina on the nintendo switch

[cloud wadi]

Faust wants knowledge in the books because he believes that it will lead to power and wealth. In other words, he wants societal validation

[neat cedar]

Would you think the pressure angle works if our faust is actually gretchen/homunculus?

[vagrant dove]

But yeah, Dongrang is so infinitely interesting to me because he demonstrates the fine line between E.G.O and distortion- and that E.G.O isn't always a good thing. Conviction's neither good nor bad, after all

[worthy haven]

Like the kinda central theme of it as a whole is Humanities eternal striving for knowledge and fulliment in the face of the fact with how far someone is willing to cross the lines of morals and reason and the inner battle of good vs evil within oneself

[neat cedar]

because the gretchen angle seems more and more plausible

Faust, after all, is a name that can be taken away

[vagrant dove]

extremely bitcrushed string theocracy

[stoic fjord]

Ahab is like, pure E.G.Oist and also shows us that

though in a less subtle way than Dongrang

which is why I kind of like Dongrang more

[vagrant dove]

Yeah

[worthy haven]

hm maybe. But the Homonculus strives to become Human by itself (and then kills itself) toh gretchen def has angle of being crushed by societal pressure due to faust actions

[crimson spindle]

yeah project moon is always going "yes the will to fight against the norms of this horrible society is a powerful thing. but also, will is just will. you can aim it all sorts of stupid ways."

[cloud wadi]

the chicken man

freaking Sora

[crimson spindle]

"you can use your will to repeatedly shoot yourself in the leg. it's a powerful expression of will, and also it is stupid as shit"

[worthy haven]

I would agree in that regarding the Faust version of Marlowe

BUT

[stoic fjord]

"alternatively lock the fuck in and genuinely farm infinite aura fighting a star of the city to avenge your dead husband even if you lose"

[cloud wadi]

"You can use your will to claim that you are nothing but a slave to something else. It's an expression of a will and also you are fuking insane"

[worthy haven]

I would disagree quite a bit On Goethes Fausts

[vagrant dove]

Can't believe the Hana tried copying her "a star of the city shall fall" line

Who do they think they convincing

[cloud wadi]

well we've seen Pmoon freely use elements of both lamanchaland and original don quixote before

so reasonably they'll do the same for Faust

[crimson spindle]

xiao is legitimately doing the Most Confucian Act Possible

[stoic fjord]

iirc it's a common fixer mantra

[crimson spindle]

and dies with no regrets

[worthy haven]

Goethes Faust doesnt seek knowledge to gain power. Goethes Faust seeks knowledge in the hope of transcending his bounds. He wants to figure out the knowledge he cannot gain by mere logic or facts

[stoic fjord]

Jia Qiu vs. Xiao aura farming competition

[vagrant dove]

I know but it's infinitely cooler when Xiao says it

[stoic fjord]

true

[cloud wadi]

if we are doing it by known chronology technically Roland and Angelica said it first

[worthy haven]

Its why he is so depressed. He knows he cannot get the answers he seeks prior to mephisto

[stoic fjord]

especially when she says all that shit about how the gleam of the stars pales in comparison to the rising sun

like

[crimson spindle]

well, I guess technically it would be more confucian if it was their son dying pointlessly for vengeance

[vagrant dove]

There's still time

[cloud wadi]

we will kill mars' mom

[stoic fjord]

holy fucking shit I still think Xiao might have the most aura in the series

[cloud wadi]

and he'll come and die to us pointlessly

[crimson spindle]

confucian vengeance is a whole thing

[stoic fjord]

and it'll be auraful

trust

[cosmic gorge]

Difference between a personal vendetta vs a corporate mandate

[cloud wadi]

thus giving Don a really cool sword to add to her collection

[crimson spindle]

and one I have to explain a lot to westerners because it's totally orthagonal to western conceptions of vengeance or vendetta

[stoic fjord]

I've been thinking about this line a lot recently

just because like

genuinely? protagonist shit

[cosmic gorge]

Whats orthogonal

[worthy haven]

def could be!

[stoic fjord]

this woman would be the main character if the library wasn't here

[cloud wadi]

gotta combine confucian act of vengeance with the confucian idea of collective responsibility

[vagrant dove]

Xiao would be a protagonist in any other series, unfortunately this is The City

[stoic fjord]

I mean that is kind of the point of everyone who goes to the library

but

[crimson spindle]

literally, perpendicular. metaphorically, on a different axis/paradigm

[stoic fjord]

Xiao especially

[cosmic gorge]

Ah ok

[vagrant dove]

I mean Finn's the fucking archetypical hero's journey protag

And he gets washed

[cloud wadi]

so if someone does you wrong, you can't just kill the person that did you wrong

you gotta end their entire bloodline

and their relatives

[cosmic gorge]

Is this also the Middle

[crimson spindle]

that's where it goes yeah lol

it cracks me up that the dig two graves thing gets attributed to confucius

[vagrant dove]

Dig more graves

[cosmic gorge]

This is how the Middle is a warped confucian vlaue right

[crimson spindle]

because genuinely confucius' actual attitude was more "dig 2 graves, one for them and one for all of their bitchass family"

[stoic fjord]

I feel like the Rats are less protagonist coded but also could easily be protagonists of something a little less conventional

just like

everyone

[vagrant dove]

lor really excels at making you feel terrible just in a few short scenes honestly

[stoic fjord]

god

I need to see Jia Qiu's E.G.O

I need to know what made bro decide that shit had to be sealed away

[vagrant dove]

Yujin, for one

[stoic fjord]

I felt like a horrible fucking person playing LoR

more than I ever have in any other game no matter what I was doing

[crimson spindle]

actual confucius on vengeance

[vagrant dove]

I feel infinitely sorry for Phillip as well

[worthy haven]

def could be but I think for now I remain sceptical cause it doesnt really resonate I think with our Faust. I do not think she seeks to know all to gain power and standing in society (even in the gesellschaft). I think for her it is truly the pursuit of knowledge to go beyond what she can currently grasp

[cloud wadi]

this is why you see in a lot of korean webtoons the protagonist taking revenge on the entire family line of someone who did them wrong without it really being morally questioned

[crimson spindle]

“If someone has killed your parents, sleep on straw with your shield as a pillow; do not take on any job, do not live under the same sky as the killer. If you run into them in a public space, don't go home for weapons, attack and kill them immediately. If someone kills your brother, don’t work in the same country; if you are on official business, don’t fight just then. If someone kills your cousin, don’t lead the attack if a closer relative can kill that person, but follow along with your weapons ready to help kill him.”

[worthy haven]

In a sense atm after thinking about it the Gesellschaft I think is kinda right to Label her as they have

[stoic fjord]

"do not live under the same sky as the killer" goes hard

[worthy haven]

She does seems to kinda well coast on their knowledge

[cloud wadi]

she does though

she wants to be reinstated ||as administrator of Geschellshaft||

[worthy haven]

ye

[stoic fjord]

followed up immediately by "if you run into them in a public space attack and kill them immediately" makes me chuckle a little tho lmao

[crimson spindle]

like literally if someone kills your dad confucian morally doesn't just excuse revenge, it requires it

[vagrant dove]

Like I dislike playing through the Crying Children but he did not deserve half the shit that happened to him

[cloud wadi]

that's desiring power and validation

[crimson spindle]

you are a bad person if you don't hound them unto death

[worthy haven]

||But I personally think becoming an Admin is less about the power she gains by regaining that role and moreso the knowledge she would have freely acess to once she gaisn that postion||

[stoic fjord]

hrm

so like. what if that means you kill someone else's dad. do you have to become sworn enemies trying to kill each other at all times now

[crimson spindle]

yes, that's why it eventually tended to escalate to "wipe out their whole ass family line"

[cloud wadi]

Yeah

[crimson spindle]

and then eventually tended to be legally regulated

[cloud wadi]

Hence why I mentioned that you gotta synthesize Confucian idea of vengeance by combining it with Confucian idea of collective responsibility

[vagrant dove]

Hold on, is that part of why Jia Mu nukes the entire Kong family

[crimson spindle]

to limit vendetta

[cloud wadi]

If someone does you wrong

[crimson spindle]

yes

that is exactly why jia mu nukes the entire kong family

[cloud wadi]

their entire family is responsible for that wrong

[stoic fjord]

hrm

so why doesn't Jia Qiu kill the entirety of the Shi family

[cloud wadi]

Not just the person

[crimson spindle]

because jia qiu represents confucianism in the best light

[stoic fjord]

is he not a real Confucian or something. what's going on there

ahhh ok

[crimson spindle]

where it is moderated by reason

[stoic fjord]

got it

[crimson spindle]

and is focused on righteousness and benevolence to others

rather than trying to dictate society

that's why he ultimately turns down being in charge

it is symbolically going "confucian values are not what we need in play here"

[stoic fjord]

makes sense

[crimson spindle]

(and turns it down for a woman, which is unthinkable under confucian morality as written)

[vagrant dove]

Lord Lu seems to represent the classical vengeance aspect a lot more then

This is interesting stuff, i'll have to add it to my Conspiracy Board

(Trademark)

[crimson spindle]

yeah lord lu is all in on full ass, you killed my family and I'm going to tear yours out root and branch

[stoic fjord]

with how good of a person Jia Qiu is being presented as I can't help but feel a bit nervous now

like

he's still my GOAT

but also please don't turn out to be shitty somehow

like, flawed, sure, everyone is

please don't be shitty

please be the awesome and based guy who is just cool like that

[vagrant dove]

I think the Star he's based on dies in the Water Margin, if I recall correctly

[crimson spindle]

most of them do

[cloud wadi]

Kong Qiu also does tell us that he did in fact plan on killing everyone for his revenge

But then he saw hong lu trying to save a person falling to their death

And had second thoughts

[vagrant dove]

I think he would have also gone through with it if Hong Lu had proven reticent

Since that does seem to be the plan as Zilu/Zigong understand it

[neat cedar]

likely

and given his perfromance during the eams

[crimson spindle]

he was essentially doing the sodom and gommorah call

[neat cedar]

he really could have

[crimson spindle]

present to me one good man

[neat cedar]

with ease

[crimson spindle]

and I will stay my hand

[worthy haven]

Like Faust is currently doing kinda the opposite of what the core moral thesis of Faust is. She wants the final product. She simply wants the knowledge in the quickest and fastest way. I think the other ||Fausts were kinda right to label her as they have for the moment. She didnt really put in her own effort at all from what it seems. She just seeks an answer, although one could also argue she is doing everything she can to find out, but I think atm the shortcut of the society makes that really tough for our Faust. || The core thesis of faust is that man can only find his purpose by untiring, purposeful, and positive effort. Something I think our Faust is really not doing atm to her truest sense. Faust is a work of supreme optimisms...something which I think our Faust deeply lacks

[neat cedar]

mhmm

and to die into that

[stoic fjord]

I'm going to fucking explode

[neat cedar]

the happiest we have ever seen our faust

is when she's disconnected from the network

[worthy haven]

Yes

[neat cedar]

in the Warp train

[crimson spindle]

that's not an answer though

the majority of the stars in the water margin die

it's a high casualty rate

[stoic fjord]

MY GOAT WILL LIVE!!!!

[gentle mulch]

||i just realized unbreakables are wrath coins because they want to hit regardless of what happens and green coins are gluttony because it's yummy||

[cloud wadi]

Valar morghulis or whatever

[crimson spindle]

and notably I will say

[cosmic gorge]

Yesss

[crimson spindle]

the dihui star survives

[cloud wadi]

I go nom on your funny red coins

[cosmic gorge]

And yellow coins are sloth bc they do nothing else

Someone said

[vagrant dove]

||gregor where did the red coins go||

||i eated it||

[keen palm]

What are purple coins then

[vagrant dove]

I think they might be ryoshu specific unbreakables

[gentle mulch]

envy because they want what green coins have

[vagrant dove]

But I also think it works because like

[gentle mulch]

thats what he was talking about w ||the whole consume march||

[karmic escarp]

envy if we go by color

something about effacing the thing youre jealous of

like the wicked queen in snow white

if i cant have what you have... let it not exist at all type beat

[vagrant dove]

Seriously though, the purple coins essentially rip their enemies very existance/self (something ryoshu doesn't really have in her muga state) apart

So

[karmic escarp]

i cant wait for blue coins and orange coins

[vagrant dove]

Sloth coins where you make your opponent sleepy trust

[cloud wadi]

Orange coins: multiply coins when winning clashes

[karmic escarp]

im so glad other people made the connection to the coin colors matching the sin colors

[crimson spindle]

actually wait, I forgot, there's two dihui stars

one lives and one dies

[vagrant dove]

Yeah I made it during the Gregor fight

[crimson spindle]

...actually that's a pretty good gag

[vagrant dove]

With Verg's wrathful ass (red unbreakables)

[crimson spindle]

that might be on purpose

[karmic escarp]

theyre cooking with hella GAS 🔥

[vagrant dove]

Clashing gregor, who's consumed by the desire to eat and consume everything

[crimson spindle]

(the dihui stars are 2 different hanzi so it's distinct in chinese but not in korean or english)

[worthy haven]

exactly. When the easy answer was not instantly in reach. Moreso she knew she could solve by herself and by relying on others. It took effort to swallow her pride and ask the others about their thoughts, to accept that she alone could make and error, not give a perfect answer, be wrong but once the answer was reached it was truly satisfying. "Man errs as long as he strives". As long as one strives they are bound to make mistakes, but only by making these mistakes can one truly move forward. The only one who does not make the mistakes is the one who just doesnt strive at all

something I think our faust has very much not internalised

[cloud wadi]

yeah i mean

it's before her canto

[crimson spindle]

Dihui (地會); vs Dihui (地慧);

[worthy haven]

ye

she shouldn't know that

[vagrant dove]

I'm honestly super excited to see what they do with the Odyssey

I am a classicist so like

[neat cedar]

look

[vagrant dove]

Special Interest

[neat cedar]

i still

to my core

believe in my batshit theory

[worthy haven]

I think we are kinda seeing the first signs tho by showing hints that she wants to be her own person but also get everything the gesellschaft has. She wants it both ways

[neat cedar]

of greg being Polyphemus

[gentle mulch]

My theory is that sloth coins can clash regardless of speed/power diff based on disadvantaged speed diff

[neat cedar]

to Outis's odysseus

[cloud wadi]

only if we get to drive a large wooden stake into greg for his canto

[karmic escarp]

||....hey only one of his human eyes was showing still when he went kaiser mode....||

[split beacon]

You know

[cloud wadi]

for outis' canto

[vagrant dove]

The ever helpful one who grips faust

[split beacon]

There were not one but two star slaying weapons in Canto 9

[neat cedar]

Oh it goes so much deeper than that*

look at greg's ids

[gentle mulch]

that is true

[worthy haven]

does that hermann wiped out most of the argos unit in retaliation? 🤔

[split beacon]

Even if one was kinda the product of a misread

[gentle mulch]

what happened to the other one?

[neat cedar]

and his two sadder egos

[split beacon]

After all

[cloud wadi]

heaven killing blade

[stoic fjord]

Kurokumo, Solemn Lament, uhhh

forgor

[neat cedar]

i noted that for a lot of them

[split beacon]

Laevateinn is not actually Surtr’s sword

[neat cedar]

there is a focus on one eye

[vagrant dove]

Note that the Argos unit is probably a reference to the section of the Greek Army led by one of Odysseus's buddies in the Illiad, Diomedes

[neat cedar]

inat least one of the uptie arts

[worthy haven]

oh hmhm

[karmic escarp]

aedd corrosion too no?

[neat cedar]

One of the more notable ones

is uh

butcher greg

[worthy haven]

man I know way to little details about the odyssee

[neat cedar]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/limbuscompany/images/d/d1/R.B._Sous-chef_Gregor_Full_Uptied.png/revision/latest?cb=20230420062819

[worthy haven]

oh

he do be having

[karmic escarp]

now that i see i cant unsee

[worthy haven]

one eye

[neat cedar]

WELCOME TO MY WORLD

iu had this idea like

a week ago

and it's driving me crazy

because i'm either on to something

or drawing lines that have no meaning

[split beacon]

It’s a little annoying to see that no one does their research for Laevateinn

[neat cedar]

AND I DON"T KNOW

[vagrant dove]

Note Euryalos/Euryalus there

[cloud wadi]

and yeah I couldn't think of any star/heaven killing weapons in canto 9

[karmic escarp]

im gonna. look at my IDs and crossref corrosion on the wiki

[cloud wadi]

except for Heaven Killing Star's sword

[stoic fjord]

I've been thinking a lot about IDs missing eyes/having covered eyes in general

bad end IDs, but of course also others

[split beacon]

The relic sword lol

It’s called Laevateinn but it’s supposed to be Surtr’s sword

[stoic fjord]

Yuri Faust, KK Greg, uhhh

[split beacon]

Which splits the vault of the sky and burns the heavens away

[stoic fjord]

I can't think of anyone else rn

but it's just like

yeah idk I feel like the whole "missing/covered eye" thing has to be intentional to a degree, somehow

[cloud wadi]

oh so that's why it was on fire

[split beacon]

Yea

[cloud wadi]

i was wondering about that

[karmic escarp]

hong lord

[split beacon]

It’s the product of a persistent misunderstanding

[dusty sigil]

I just realized, are there no wrath base EGOs?

[split beacon]

Yeah

[crimson spindle]

yeah there's a lot of arguing over what laevateinn is in the myths

[dusty sigil]

Huh

[stoic fjord]

non-bad ends specifically

[crimson spindle]

there's a lot of things

[split beacon]

Could be a sword, dart, or wand

[crimson spindle]

is it the mistletoe that kills baldur? maybe

[stoic fjord]

it's why I didn't mention wildhunt or spicebush or anything like that

[split beacon]

But it’s Loki’s little shit disturbing device

[crimson spindle]

is it loki's wand?

maybe

is it surtr's sword? maybe

is it all of those things? maybe

[tiny cave]

None of the sinners are angery enough

[split beacon]

It’s probably not Surtr’s sword

[cloud wadi]

it should have been a transforming weapon

honestly

[tiny cave]

None of the base IDs have burn or charge hence no wrath base ego

[cloud wadi]

it actually is a transforing weapon

[dusty sigil]

I mean Rodya is pretty wrathful

[cloud wadi]

it might just be like the way it is because mathias sucks with it

[crimson spindle]

the name laevateinn doesn't even exist in the primary sources

[cloud wadi]

but it's a blade which has like 4 different scabbards all of which consists of different weapons

[tiny cave]

So is skincare but he has a gluttony ego instead

[dusty sigil]

She is very motivated by her hatred of the rich

[worthy haven]

I for a second got myself confused cause I belief TYPE Moon has made that exact thing aswell

[crimson spindle]

it's a later interpretation of the name haevateinn

[worthy haven]

and fused both of them to one for a moment

[cloud wadi]

i want the mistletainn as a weapon

[vagrant dove]

Yeah a lot of shit about mythology can get muddled

[worthy haven]

why both of them gotta have such close names smh

[split beacon]

It would go hard

[cloud wadi]

god killing sword

[crimson spindle]

well the argument is that haevateinn is a misprint/misinterpretation

[split beacon]

Tiny dagger

[crimson spindle]

and it should be laevateinn

but it's genuinely a little unclear if that's correct

[split beacon]

Tbh

If there’s a Mistleteinn

It’s Olivier’s silly trick weapon

[cloud wadi]

mistilteinn will be found in the LIbrary in the hand of Hod

[split beacon]

He tries to kill an invulnerable god of light on a technicality

[cloud wadi]

she'lkk use it to stab a guy to death

probably will stab gregor to death

true death

[crimson spindle]

the reason they think it was probably wrong is that haevateinn is probably "sure-striking dart"

[cloud wadi]

lots of sure-striking weapons in viking myth

now that i think about it

[worthy haven]

thinking about it...does that mean that all the Relics all have names engraved on them or does like someone like the dieci have records of them?

[cloud wadi]

instead of artifacts that can cause mass destruction

[crimson spindle]

whereas laevateinn is either "wounding dart/wand" or "deceit dart/wand"

[cloud wadi]

you get "yo this spear never misses when thrown"

[crimson spindle]

or both

[cloud wadi]

or "sure striking sword"

[crimson spindle]

which is a title which makes a lot more sense for the sword/wand of loki

[cloud wadi]

or "this sword is made o a plant but it kills eople by technicality"

[worthy haven]

def might also be looking into to much detail. Just wondering how words like Gungnir and Odin would appear in the city otherwise esp as names for these relics (could also just be rule of cool)

[vagrant dove]

I mean there's value in just a really good sword

Lot of swords with supernatural sharpness for good reason

[neat cedar]

yes

[vagrant dove]

Or that deal wounds that don't heal

[neat cedar]

yeeees

*join me in madness

[crimson spindle]

and then from there it gets mixed in with surtr's sword

and japanese readers for whatever reason really latched on to that interp

[worthy haven]

does hair before eye count here?

[crimson spindle]

resulting in infinite flaming sword laevateinns in jrpgs

[split beacon]

It may unironically be because of Flandre

[worthy haven]

fuck

[cloud wadi]

i do wonder what kind of other artifacts will be given relic status

[worthy haven]

I see it everywhere now too

[crimson spindle]

no it definitely predates that

[vagrant dove]

The Matter of Britain has a few legendary swords

I'd say Durendal but that ones uh

[crimson spindle]

It shows up in Bastard! in the late 80s

[vagrant dove]

Very taken

[stoic fjord]

fucking hell it's almost completely covered

[worthy haven]

I wonder do we know if the gladius is a relic?

[stoic fjord]

uhhhh

what about his uptie art?

[vagrant dove]

So I'll stick to Britain

[worthy haven]

IT IS

[vagrant dove]

No you can't do this to me

[karmic escarp]

and it's really consistent across his eyes

[cloud wadi]

Keraunos for Zeus' thunderbolts?

[vagrant dove]

The conspiracy board's coming out

[karmic escarp]

well not which eye but

[wintry fiber]

visual motifs yay

[karmic escarp]

when one eye is obscured otherwise seems missing, it's the same eye for the various IDs

most common eye missing among IDs is his left

[cloud wadi]

poseidon's trident?

[karmic escarp]

or eye strange

[worthy haven]

@neat cedar that was an insane pull damm

[crimson spindle]

oh that's interesting actually

[vagrant dove]

ITS ON SL AS WELL

[worthy haven]

I am onboard

[crimson spindle]

Laevateinn shows up as a shape-changing staff in Ragnarok (as in, the thing that spawned Ragnarok Online) in 1997

[cloud wadi]

the gandiva bow?

[crimson spindle]

so that's a separate lineage and interpretation

[split beacon]

huh, fascinating

[vagrant dove]

And it's closed in christmas nightmare

[cloud wadi]

anyways yeah lets rip out gregor's eyes

[crimson spindle]

but yeah the flaming sword version shows up as early as the 80s

so it's wack

[cloud wadi]

honestly

[split beacon]

wild

[cloud wadi]

pmoon literally used supernatural tv show mark of cain for their standardized mark of cain before

[neat cedar]

hehehehehehehe

[split beacon]

I mean yeah

[cloud wadi]

they really don't dig deep on images lmfao

[split beacon]

pop culture is a thing that's happening

[crimson spindle]

oh in western shit

[neat cedar]

yeah, that's exceedingly funny

[vagrant dove]

ONE OF HIS CORROSIONS HAS ONLY GOT ONE EYE AS WELL

What the fuck

[neat cedar]

and oh boy

that one

[crimson spindle]

loki (marvel) had a flaming sword laevateinn in the 80s too

[neat cedar]

is

extremely relevant

for what just happened

hehehehehehehe

[worthy haven]

I think the only one without insta one eye is the sinking one

BUT

[stoic fjord]

okay are we like

[vagrant dove]

Are we crazy

[stoic fjord]

are we just completely going off the rails here

[neat cedar]

yes

this is my fault

[stoic fjord]

or is this something actually happening

[split beacon]

nah one-eyed Gregor is a thing

[worthy haven]

you could argue that the mirror/portrait might could be seen as an eye

[stoic fjord]

it's so fucking over for him

[split beacon]

I just don't know that there's much it's building to other than that we only have seen one side of Gregor as a person

[stoic fjord]

ohhhh yeah also true

[neat cedar]

yeah like

i will state

clearly

and for the record

[vagrant dove]

He's got an eye obscured on his Lantern sprite

[neat cedar]

aside from eye motifs

and greg also being a smoke war vet

[cloud wadi]

we are gonna get trapped in a dark cave with gregor

and then he's gonna demand we sacrifice a sinner every day to him

[worthy haven]

Platos cave gregor style

[neat cedar]

there isn't a whole lot for the polyphemus gregor stuff

[cloud wadi]

and the only way out

[neat cedar]

but the ey e bit is notable

[cloud wadi]

would be for us to blind him with a heated wooden stake

[neat cedar]

granted

this was before we got the fucking

[cloud wadi]

that'll be the true burn season

[neat cedar]

hermes reveal

[split beacon]

the alternative here

is Odin Gregor

[crimson spindle]

yes

also, tarot reading

gregor is the hanged man

[cloud wadi]

yeah

[neat cedar]

ye

I also thinkg

gregor might be intented

to be nidhogg

[split beacon]

nah

[neat cedar]

given all the horse stuff

[split beacon]

Odin for sure, one eye, hanged man

[neat cedar]

*norse

[worthy haven]

truly potential man

[vagrant dove]

Same thing with AEDD

[neat cedar]

but remember what herman's plan is

[cloud wadi]

i do wonder what's up with all the sudden norse stuff

[neat cedar]

and what do vermin do to trees

[vagrant dove]

He did just swallow a very relevant eye

[neat cedar]

and which part of fae lanterm

[cloud wadi]

but I'm 100% sure

[neat cedar]

is gregor embodying

[cloud wadi]

a future relici s going to be Mjolnir

[split beacon]

yeah but raijin you know what Odin does

[cloud wadi]

hell there used to be Mjolnir in the og lobcorp

mjolnir abno

[split beacon]

he hangs upside down from the world tree, eye cut out, to gain mystic wisdom