Project Moon Games: Lobcorp, Ruina, Etc.

[lean fjord]

since she starts at stage four in the fight already

[eternal gull]

No there is no head I CRACKED OPEN THE HEAD OF A ARBITER AND LEARNED HOW TO HIDE FROM IT

[stoic fjord]

guys

I have something funny to share

I got through all of Chesed's realization

final boss

didn't realize the 5 cards you get at the start are meant to be used on that turn

I have none of the required effects to beat the boss

I'm lowkey going to fucking lose it lmao

I'm taking a break

to do work instead

and then once I'm done I'll return

and not make the same mistake

and probably brute force everything except the final boss with just

damage

cuz the way I got to the final boss was deadass like

just maximizing bleed and burn

@ebon forge I'm ready to distort

I might lowkey cheat

like I'm actually so tilted I want this realization to just not be a problem

cuz like

[dusty sigil]

Does Faust have any objects seen on all IDs of her like Heathcliff’s ring or Outis’s watch?

[stoic fjord]

from what I could tell

not a hard fight

it's just

I didn't realize that you were supposed to use the 5 cards first turn

[atomic steeple]

Ruina is hard huh

[stoic fjord]

it is but this specific loss was me making a stupid mistake in the home stretch because I wanted to get further in the fight to use something and strategize but it turns out they're meant to be used same turn

[ebon forge]

:D

[lean fjord]

The last phase of Chesed realisation is basically scripted

Even more than Tiph

[stoic fjord]

that actually makes me even more mad

because I just

didn't use the 5 pages

because I thought maybe I'd be able to like

learn more about what the status actually does

and then I just

didn't have them anymore because they're removed after first turn

[unique bane]

https://old.rxddit.com/r/limbuscompany/comments/1qbqgy1/spunch_bush/?ref=share&ref_source=link

[neat cedar]

Not really

[dusty sigil]

Ah alright

[neat cedar]

the sinners who always have an object is Heath's ring(though maybe not anymore) greg's buddy pablo and missing an arm, Ish's rope, Don's shoes, ryoshu's sword, Hong Lu's eye

Rodya's tattoo as well technically

tho.it's not seen often

[dusty sigil]

Isn’t there also Yi Sang’s knife?

[neat cedar]

that's not a constant

[stoic fjord]

alright I'm cheating Chesed's realization specifically and then not cheating anymore

[fluid whale]

What about Yi Sang's book?

I know I saw it in Wu Sang's art

[stoic fjord]

I own it, it's my game, I'm not ruining it for anyone else, and I'm frustrated by the fight

[dusty sigil]

Ah true yah

[neat cedar]

is that a constant?

[fluid whale]

I don't know, I haven't checked, but it's in his EGO and I think they keep the objects that are important to base EGO animations

[neat cedar]

not always

[bronze zephyr]

the book is less constant than his dagger i think but its in quite a few of them

[neat cedar]

he has a book

but it isn't the same book

[atomic steeple]

Fair

[golden meadow]

HOLY SHIT SPUNCH BUSH REAL??!??!!!?

[neat cedar]

he is a poet so i think that's a signifier of that

like with yi sang and Faust, the constants in their ids are less physical things

and more their perspectives

Faust is always looking dor knowledge while Yi Sang seeks understanding is how i'd put it off the top of my head

[atomic steeple]

Even fell bullet feels an urge to understand

[keen palm]

Outis has her watch

[neat cedar]

ye though the watch doesn't make too many appearances if memory serves. But it is always at least considered to be there i think

[bronze zephyr]

. we're getting kira ishmael but ish doesn't have any envy ego,

[neat cedar]

so far at least

we'll see what we get

plus all she needs is like

a defense envy skill

and she'll be fine

[ebon forge]

maybe she'll get a second WAW ego

[split beacon]

How is she not gonna have an Envy defense and be a member of the Middle you guys

Cmon

[neat cedar]

yeah

having envy ego is not the end all be all to envy res

[split beacon]

Get ya money up not ya funny up

[neat cedar]

it is helpful

but honestly, if she adds some less common ego resources, that can help

[bronze zephyr]

It's in most of her IDs

[neat cedar]

i'm curious whast the gimmick will be

[neat cedar]

visually? i don't remember seeing it that often but I also don't have like

a good memory for tese things

[split beacon]

I have a suspicion that we’re going to see a +weight counter

On Kirashmael

[neat cedar]

would be funny

we do seem to be getting normal counters again

which I'm glad for

[split beacon]

Yeah they’re just beast mode now

[neat cedar]

inb4 she's a defenselevel boosters for the middle team

[split beacon]

Which is good actually

I like that pjm has recognized there’s considerable opportunity cost to using a non-clash counter and made them absolute humdingers that also let you force your character gimmick on the Index folks

[neat cedar]

mhmm

[split beacon]

Index counters cave your fucking skull in

[neat cedar]

same with Guards

getting normal guards and counters, my beloved

[worthy haven]

I def need to use the index counters more I think

[neat cedar]

now if we could just get

[split beacon]

Actually yeah the non-clashing defense options have gotten huge upgrades to make up for being wack opportunity cost wise

[neat cedar]

morr

fuckin

Zayin and teth egos

imma be real

zayin and teth sre the only egos i consistently use

[bronze zephyr]

Barber, 7, BL, G Corp, Ring, MB, Heishou, I think are the ones where it's visible

[neat cedar]

and i think are a lot more important than the flashy hes and waws most of thr time

at least for my playstylr

good zayin and teths would good ego passives

[split beacon]

That’s wild I’m a huge believer in going ape with Contempt, Awe or Crushbound Past to just flatten an encounter

But also I am Thoracalgia fan #1

[bronze zephyr]

Smashing everything w Yearning Mircalla Don is so yummy but mainly i use ego if i need to clash good

[neat cedar]

same

or if i wamt a passive

aside from that, i don't much invest in them

[split beacon]

Thoracalgia is where it’s at fuck doing the poise thing correctly imma smooth brain it

[atomic steeple]

It's my nuke option though it works best after build-up

[atomic steeple]

I use contempt awe as my aoe nuke too. And to fuel other egos
It's my bleed team's source of gloom
So it lets me use the zayins for gregor, meursault abd ishmael
Plus ishmael bygone days

[split beacon]

Aoe nuke?

I use it to apply 14x Gaze

[atomic steeple]

Oh there's that too

It is good for n corp aweshu

During part 2, contempt awe was very useful

[split beacon]

She’s the GOAT

[worthy haven]

I gotta start using nshu

just for the clank sound alone

[atomic steeple]

Ryoshu was out there carrying the team and providing for egos, so meursault could use chains of others on bosses. Made sora easier

[worthy haven]

hey hey. No shade at Reapshu

[ebon forge]

i mostly use mao rotation

ocassionally sinking

[stoic fjord]

Apocalypse Bird realization kinda miserable

[ebon forge]

thing that would be sick:

hohenheim corroding, big birb EGO fight

[gentle mulch]

i dont have nshu so REAPer she goes

[worthy haven]

reap gud 😌

[ebon forge]

carmen going by b irl

[stoic fjord]

How does a Level 4 wing employee in full WAW gear compare to a Thumb Capo

[vagrant dove]

I love Nshu, very fun id to use and her art is so cool

Stole jia huan's fit and wore it better

[worthy haven]

Ryo is kinda the queen of amazing art 1s

[vagrant dove]

That S3-2 really carried the team through a lot of c9

(At least the bits where you have just four sinners)

[gentle mulch]

i do wish we got stages that were like

we have a minimalist hud to represent dante not being there

and we slugged it out with each branch of sinners

instead of just the 4 for the majority of the canto

[neat cedar]

i mean, tbf, can't really do that

because they can't use ids at all

without dante

so it would just be base sinners only

[gentle mulch]

i can do a challenge run or two

it'll be fine

[neat cedar]

for you, yes

but i think for a lot of peeps it would be really annoying really quick

also, the bit where they can't like, die because dante isn't there to res

just a lot of lil narrative bits that would make it funky

[gentle mulch]

sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

malkuth's canto needs to come sooner

[random spindle]

ruina is both hard and also really clunky at providing info

[dusty sigil]

Ruina kicked my ass

[gentle mulch]

it's pretty bad at communicating

[dusty sigil]

Legitimately was stuck on the final realization for a week

[atomic steeple]

The fights wreck me

[random spindle]

great story but I do think its kind of a horrible game in many respects

please look in 4 different locations to do clashing arithmetic. thank you

[atomic steeple]

I tried night awls
Tried
Only killed allen, then died

[random spindle]

I just kind of stopped playing at burrowing heaven and judgment bird lol

"Ok so even following a guide i just kind of lose due to luck here"

[atomic steeple]

Yeah I worry I might need mods to avoid losing due to luck

[split beacon]

You don’t

[random spindle]

If youve made it this far without nogrind youre powerful

[stoic fjord]

tbh I quite enjoy it as a game

but with the stipulation of "I have nogrind on"

[split beacon]

Vanilla Ruina is fine

You don’t need mods

[atomic steeple]

I have nogrind

[stoic fjord]

and also Binah's floor realization is killing me inside

[split beacon]

I mean

Okay

I came close to freaking out when I faltered in realizing the Floor of Philosophy in the final phase

[stoic fjord]

overall I do like it but I don't know that I'd have the strength of will to get through this without nogrind

[split beacon]

That made me kinda mad

[random spindle]

and of course "yesod floor background memory leak fix" which somehow didnt get fixed on switch port

[stoic fjord]

okay idk who's playing on the switch port and if they are

[split beacon]

Wdym strength of will

[atomic steeple]

I want to enjoy the journey, but also feel eager to get stuff from floors of philosophy and religion

[stoic fjord]

they need to not

[split beacon]

Reclearing a few fights is not the end of the world

[atomic steeple]

The what?

[random spindle]

yeah the fights are good Once. my friend installed nogrind after the fourth clear of sweepers without dropping one of the needed cards to progress

[split beacon]

Especially if you have above-curve pages for it lol

[stoic fjord]

if I had to redo fights for every try I had to do for Xiao

[split beacon]

You don’t tho

[stoic fjord]

I would probably have punched a hole through my monitor

[split beacon]

You only need one copy of each book just use the emotion level mechanics?

[stoic fjord]

because I think I actually approached somewhere close to uhhhh

[random spindle]

The background animation has some sort of memory leak associated and runs like shit. Theres a mod that just makes it not do that

[stoic fjord]

I wanna say 50 attempts?

for Xiao

which is mostly skill issue on my end

[random spindle]

of the three books that drop from the sweepers fight they only got two, multiple tries in a row

[stoic fjord]

but also if I had to do that without nogrind I would probably lose it entirely

[split beacon]

Mfs be like “I’d crash out if I had to engage with the mechanic that forces me to stop smashing my head into a brick wall and take a chill pill” they designed the game to have forced breaks in it so you won’t lose your mind

[stoic fjord]

yeah because being forced to slow down tilts me more than repeated failure

[random spindle]

I dont consider "repeating the same fight I just did multiple times" a break

[split beacon]

It’s just like watching people smear their skulls into Silksong bosses and not go “maybe I should try something else when the game forces me to go do something else”

[stoic fjord]

especially if said slowing down isn't like, doubling back for progression or helping me refine my strategy

[random spindle]

this is not a game where you really need Specialized Builds to deal with particular fights

[stoic fjord]

I also beat the Red Mist second try but I only beat Iori because it went from Red Mist to a fully equipped Binah and I would not want to hope for that RNG again

[split beacon]

White hot nuclear take lmfao

[stoic fjord]

I would argue that this only applies to the receptions

[split beacon]

You should and can absolutely make specialized builds to deal with the problems you’re facing in Ruina

[stoic fjord]

the Realizations? fuck no you need specialized decks for that

[random spindle]

Its just got the fight grinding to give people something to ostensibly do during the early access period. You do not in fact miss out on anything by just going straight up the critical path besides the hidden receptions

[stoic fjord]

oh also probably like

Xiao

just on the basis of like

idk I figure most people probably coast with Myongest

and Xiao looks at Myongest and says "no."

[random spindle]

I first tried every fight except like... crying children and i think iori before just shrugging at judgment bird and burrowing heaven

[atomic steeple]

Forced breaks?

[stoic fjord]

anyways my point is that redoing fights isn't fun, doesn't help me recollect myself, doesn't do anything to actually help me with the obstacle, etc.

[split beacon]

Yeah if you run out of books you are compelled to stop attempting a reception

[stoic fjord]

this might in part be due to the fact that for the longest time the only game I played was Risk of Rain 2

and other roguelikes

[lean fjord]

I do find nogrind Ruina much more enjoyable to play

[stoic fjord]

so I'm just used to like. improving as you keep going through over and over and figuring it out through trial and error rather than immediately locking in and knowing what to do

[random spindle]

the grind really does not add to anything

[stoic fjord]

which, I guess Ruina does encourage by showing you decks pre-battle

[lean fjord]

Just for actually getting to use all the pages without having to redo fights a bunch

[stoic fjord]

but at the same time I feel like the grind is just not an enjoyable or useful mechanic to the game

[stoic fjord]

this as well

if I had to redo the same fight multiple times just to get the actual full rewards from it, I would lose it entirely

because that would genuinely be worse than gacha game grinds

[random spindle]

ah you lost against lesti? please go regain your gold smiling faces cards you lost forever. repeat

[random spindle]

yeah lol again a friend of mine had to do one fight four times before they were even permitted to progress past it

truly meaningless mechanic

[stoic fjord]

at least there, I only need to grind shit if I want to hyper-optimize

whereas if I just want to play with a certain build I might have to redo a reception two or three times depending on my luck

[lean fjord]

It still works half the time tbh

[gentle mulch]

the grind mechanic didnt seem to add anything but i was able to enjoy my time through ruina without really needing to grind receptions anyways so it's a pretty neutral point to me

then again i did basically move all my decks between like

3 floors so

[stoic fjord]

okay yeah true but also it still fucked floor of Language hard

[lean fjord]

I cleared Xiao with Geb without having to use my second floor

[gentle mulch]

you get a second floor?

wtf?

[lean fjord]

Wait do you not?

[stoic fjord]

wait yeah what

[lean fjord]

I don't remember

[stoic fjord]

you have a second floor equipped?

[split beacon]

Lollllll

[gentle mulch]

oh my god you do

[split beacon]

You get two floors to receive Xiao on

[stoic fjord]

no like

[gentle mulch]

you get two floors 😭

[stoic fjord]

you have enough to build two strong floors?

[gentle mulch]

roughly yeah

[split beacon]

Uh yeah ?

[stoic fjord]

maybe I'm just really shit at building

[lean fjord]

I just have like ten-ish builds I can swap in usually

[gentle mulch]

i get enough cards for 2 floors and im abt set

like

[stoic fjord]

because a fair amount of keypages just do not feel good for me

like

[split beacon]

Use the Proxies

[gentle mulch]

i have the All My Good Generalist Decks on one floor and the Thumb on Netzach's and im p much good

[faint pivot]

If it's of any solace I made the same mistake

[stoic fjord]

Yan has not really felt good for me, Thumb feels... okay most of the time

[faint pivot]

It hurts like all hell

[split beacon]

Singleton Proxies with Fervor are absolute menaces to society

[stoic fjord]

idk maybe I just suck at the game lmao

[gentle mulch]

ruina's pretty clunky but i love it

and i miss its gameplay despite it being fuckall exhausting

[stoic fjord]

lowkey I've had Hubert's attribute on Esther's page so I just haven't done this

I don't know why

I just remember doing it at one point

it would probably help if I actually used the proxies more I think

[atomic steeple]

Oh, they are?

[lean fjord]

IIRC Gloria is the one you wanna attribute to Esther especially

[stoic fjord]

I just kind of remember Gloria feeling underwhelming

[random spindle]

yeah singleton is probably the best deck in the game broadly

[lean fjord]

Easy Breathing is really good

[stoic fjord]

I might've fucked that up then lmao

[split beacon]

So

[random spindle]

you can slap that shit on any page and its good its just even better on the proxies

[stoic fjord]

like 75% of my decks are singleton for econ

[split beacon]

I didn’t attribute the Proxies at all because I think having 3 Unlock Proxies is really good

[lean fjord]

Esther is the best of the Proxies, but the other two are also usable

[split beacon]

Since they get like absurd amounts of flat Power Up once you’re in the power stance

[stoic fjord]

isn't it only 1?

did I misread the attribute?

[split beacon]

Fervor is another

Singleton adds power to a bunch of pages

[lean fjord]

Ultimately most builds come down to wanting lots of power

[stoic fjord]

ohhhh okay that's what you mean

[lean fjord]

You want like +3 passive power at most times, +2 at least

[random spindle]

game mostly about having the biggest number

[stoic fjord]

except for the realizations where the abnos go "Collect My Gimmicks"

[lean fjord]

Its also why PT is just good

[split beacon]

Also if you’ve done every SotC reception

[random spindle]

the wicked alraune:

[lean fjord]

Realisations are less gimmick than the regular abno fights

[split beacon]

You can create Slash Purple Tear with Swordsmanship of the Homeland

[random spindle]

my ambient dislike for redoing things in video games is why 99% of my mirror dungeon runs in limbus is done alt tabbing and hitting win rate over the course of several hours

[split beacon]

And Overthrow+Violet Blade

[lean fjord]

They just need endurance and not making too many mistakes

[stoic fjord]

yeah mb I meant Suppressions

though also

[lean fjord]

Abnos you do need to play into the gimmick, but it also varies

[stoic fjord]

Floor of Philosophy Realization is making me feel deep amounts of rage

[split beacon]

And quite frankly, Purplemaxxing is so unreasonably strong that you’re not likely to lose to anything

[stoic fjord]

rn my BHK is being used for cloneslashes but that also sounds good

[lean fjord]

PT is always good

The really funny thing to do is Myongest PT

[faint pivot]

The Abnormalities:

[lean fjord]

On Yesod

[lean fjord]

A lot of them you can also still just do with general builds tbh

[faint pivot]

Imho the breaks help but I started with LobCorp first soooooooo biased take

[faint pivot]

Yes but the minority still invalidates the statement

[faint pivot]

Huh

You don't lose cards when you lose fights

You just lose books

When was the last time you played lmao

[stoic fjord]

ding ding ding ding ding

[atomic steeple]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIZcmA9TAzk
Hod and Malkuth singing

[split beacon]

Wait yeah you have like all the stuff in the game

[faint pivot]

I'd know after reaching Impuritas with no-grind

[split beacon]

Just lower the rent on Yesod’s floor

[stoic fjord]

...I... can't?

like

it's floor of philosophy

[atomic steeple]

You all run guns rather than blunt on yesod?

[split beacon]

For Xiao?

[stoic fjord]

I'm done with everything but that I think

[stoic fjord]

no I beat Xiao like

3 days ago

[split beacon]

Oh ok lol

[stoic fjord]

no, you use Solemn Lament

which does blunt

[faint pivot]

I still use Urban Nightmare Keypages but yes

[split beacon]

Yeah for Floor of Philosophy Realization you just show up with really strong Keypages and regen and you believe in memes

[stoic fjord]

lowkey BHK still goated

especially with clonegashes

[faint pivot]

Highkey*

[atomic steeple]

Bhk?

[faint pivot]

Bamboo Hatted Kim

The goat

[stoic fjord]

bamboo-hatted kim

[lean fjord]

Binah realisation is about having good sustain on your builds
And not fucking up during the goddamn Judgement Bird phase

Hate that shit

[split beacon]

you can trivialize Judgment Bird tbh

it's like

Big Bird that really fucks with you

[stoic fjord]

oh yeah I'm well aware

idk it's just like

[random spindle]

Years ago. The game has been out for a long while

[stoic fjord]

I get through the first 3

[faint pivot]

Same

[stoic fjord]

one of my librarians is dead by that point but I think it'll be okay

Apocalypse Bird of Pain and Agony.

[faint pivot]

Well I like the elevated stakes, the sweep you get pulling up to a past reception and the slowed pace so let's agree to disagree

[stoic fjord]

it's actually so fucked it makes me mad

[lean fjord]

Apoc Bird is just having numbers and not dying too fast

[stoic fjord]

I mean I guess but also fuuuuck it feels so ass

[faint pivot]

Blunt, the guns talked about is Solemn Lament's EGO

[lean fjord]

There's no real trick to it

[stoic fjord]

also PMoon got wise and made him immune to fairy, burn, and bleed

so like

[faint pivot]

Accurate to LobCorp

[stoic fjord]

I can't even do that I just have to actually make it through legit

[stoic fjord]

KJH devising the most miserable game that I've ever loved and cherished

the two most, actually

like I know i'm bitching and whining but I unironically adore Library of Ruina and Lob Corp so much

[faint pivot]

I can't wait to find out what nonsense the roguelike mod cooks with this thing

[lean fjord]

Oh since you cleared Impuritas btw, you can use Olivier as your Clone Gashes build now

[stoic fjord]

I'm ngl Roguelike mod was kind of underwhelming to me

[faint pivot]

Sometimes passion comes in anger

[stoic fjord]

like

it kinda just feels like they did Slay the Spire in Ruina

[faint pivot]

Ah?

Go on

[stoic fjord]

and there is enough mechanical difference but at the same time it's like

idk I could just go play Slay the Spire

[faint pivot]

Fair

[stoic fjord]

and also you don't get much near the beginning to start working with, ime, so it's kind of like ruina earlygame for a bit

and like

ruina earlygame was not exactly fun

[faint pivot]

I enjoyed the novelty but yeah it wasn't as deep

[stoic fjord]

though also they do have some interesting bits

even if I don't really think I'll play it again

because I also own slay the spire

[faint pivot]

That tracks

I'll give it a brief look after I clear Ruina, then dive into Library of Babel if I think it's meh

By the way what got you through Xiao @stoic fjord

Definitely not asking cause I'm restuck at her-

[stoic fjord]

...I forgor

i think I ended up using Kali anyways tho lmao

uhhh

[lean fjord]

Even with the power null, you can and should still big number Xiao

Also make sure to get through the first part of the fight without taking too much attrition

[faint pivot]

I'm saving Myongest for when I've REALLY had it

[faint pivot]

Tracks

[lean fjord]

Keep to her Reverse Scale rhythm and try not to die too quickly

[faint pivot]

Which floor has great level 1 and 2 abno cards

[lean fjord]

Never clash Reverse Scale if she's gonna get the buff next turn

[atomic steeple]

Hod has look of the day

[faint pivot]

I remember this at least

[bronze zephyr]

I used a guide when I went thru ruina cuz I’m very bad at builds lol

[stoic fjord]

I think I had... Allen, PT, Kalo, and I wanna say either Yae or Lowell

and Myongest Red Mist Gebura ofc

I might've made some sort of fucked up half-smoke build on Lowell

[faint pivot]

Maybe I should still find a guide, but I'll settle with this

[stoic fjord]

to increase damage I output into Xiao

[faint pivot]

Humu, smoke cards are cheap...

[faint pivot]

They really have me like

Wanting to wipe my memory of their existence

[lean fjord]

You basically always want one smoke build around

[stoic fjord]

they also do good econ

[faint pivot]

Got that

[lean fjord]

Because its free damage amp for your whole team

[faint pivot]

Perfect for our 4-dice keypage

[stoic fjord]

and multiply damage output from the character in exchange for cheap passives

[lean fjord]

Having Nicolai around is also good for similar reasons

[stoic fjord]

I did not use Nikolai though

[lean fjord]

You get free stats and the mark

[lean fjord]

I heavily recommend her page

It's just free extra power and damage for the whole team again

[neat cedar]

So

one thing that sucks about new ish

i don't get the Shi ish support passive any more for my middle team

[faint pivot]

Who knows, maybe she isn't Envy res

[neat cedar]

highly doubt that

as it's the middle's main gimmick

[bronze zephyr]

If you want a guide:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2886960662

[faint pivot]

It's heresy yea

[atomic steeple]

Oh, could combo with thirteenth toll to hit even harder

[neat cedar]

not so much heresy as it'd be very off kilter and make her fit in weirdly

[lean fjord]

it's a good guide series, I used these too

[bronze zephyr]

Yeye

[random spindle]

likewise. dont think there are other guides out there though haha

[neat cedar]

god envy res is such a satisfying team comp

[atomic steeple]

So, how do partially developed middle floors compare to the realized bottom floors?

When I start developing religion and philosophy, how good will they be to use?

[lean fjord]

fully realized is generally better, just due to how powerful EGO are

and also because Yesod in particular is a really strong floor

[lean fjord]

Binah is good just because Binah is there, and she's very powerful
but her pages also have some good effects

Hokma has his uses, mainly the Blokma memes

[stoic fjord]

aiui, Philosophy is kind of a weird floor to use, but also Binah is just good so it's not bad

[stoic fjord]

also the trash disposal 13th toll Hana attribution insta kill

[bronze zephyr]

Tiphxodia is funny

[atomic steeple]

Oh, cool

So I wait for whatever point I unlock binah

And do blockma and 13th toll shenanigans

[lean fjord]

for Middle Floors

• Geburah is Geburah, bottom text lmao
• Tiph is IMO kinda clunky, but she has the exodia strat. Some okay pages outside of that too
• Chesed is pretty good, his pages focus on teamwork kind of, and also a few funny memes like the one copy card

[ebon forge]

Heathcliff Matthias would be so fucking funny with kiramael

[random spindle]

hod has Free Numbers. really i think the only floor thats not worth using is keter lol

[lean fjord]

Keter is good, but just hamstrung by how slowly it progresses compared to the others

[atomic steeple]

cute backstory het, libary of ruina
||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uLMU_haaOY||

[atomic steeple]

So awakening pages on tiph aren't worth much once you realize her floor

[stoic fjord]

Roland only gets his special Keypage at impuritas

[lean fjord]

yes, when there's nothing to use it on anymore 😛

it's kinda funny

but I mostly meant that because his abno suppressions are so much further spaced out, and because he doesn't have his Realization until the end of the game

[atomic steeple]

He is the guy you throw at mods

[lean fjord]

on my last playthrough I used a mod that gives him a basic version of the kit from the beginning, and upgrades it through story progress

[tiny cave]

9-30 spoilers praise lord Ayin

[tiny cave]

Also no EGO until postgame

[lean fjord]

otherwise Keter is actually a great floor

[atomic steeple]

As someone said
This sopping wet rat managed to overcome carmen and get ego

[lean fjord]

Fervent Beats is a based abno card

[atomic steeple]

Found this again. Had thought it was netzach rather than chesed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypja0NDDqcc

[cloud wadi]

I often attribute Gloria to Roland

[dusty sigil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5XI4-ggdMg

[stoic fjord]

I don't think this would be canon accurate but it's like.

damn. that. that hurts.

(CW: references to abuse, bruises)

[tired canyon]

Gary the gadget guy is hoenheim's fursona

You canr convince me otherwise

[lean fjord]

I can't believe Valencia would care enough about Lucio to do anything but train him

[stoic fjord]

agreed, yeah

but like

idk somehow this version of things hurts more

and it's kind of how I imagine a Valencina Rodion ID would be

[tiny cave]

“Here is an ice cream Lucio”
“Oh tha-“
“Yoshihide could eat an ice cream without letting any drip down the side of the cone.”

“Let’s go to the cinema Lucio”
“Okay what are we-“
“Yoshihide could pick a film I liked”

[split beacon]

See sure but it’s more painful if it’s more like an abusive mom

Leaning into the whole aspect of a parent that shows affection and then also beats a child is so much worse

[gentle mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/mods-low-tier-god-gif-7063766479042034257

[gentle mulch]

yoshihide

kill this nursefather

[faint pivot]

Oooh, what's the name?

[gentle mulch]

"it's ideal aura"

[stoic fjord]

thinking about this more, I can very much imagine this as what a mirror world with Rodion Valencina would be like

[lean fjord]

let me check

[stoic fjord]

Canto 7/Manager Don Quixote spoilers, I think

[lean fjord]

spoiled for slight spoiler in the name
|| https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3126994311 ||

[faint pivot]

Yi Sang really loves getting rode huh

[faint pivot]

Thanks!

[lean fjord]

phrasing

[lean fjord]

it's fun
makes him start with the keypage and all nine of the pages, but in powered down form
and then slowly adds the extra effects and passives as the story progresses

like after he tells Angela he was a regular Grade 9 Fixer, it gains that as a passive
and then later when he's like "what if i was... a kickass Grade 1 Fixer?" it changes the passive to that and makes it slightly stronger

[neat cedar]

Are you sure about that damte

[ebon forge]

:)

[keen palm]

A friend is playing Canto III again

and I forgot that Demien explicitly says he's going to the outskirts

[lean fjord]

lmao

[faint pivot]

Clearly, the Middle never forgets 😭

[tiny cave]

This is why Kim is the best counter to them

Matthias and Kira will winrate against boneclaimer

[keen palm]

Oh hey

Gods of the City are first mentioned in Canto 3

[fluid whale]

Uh, don't think that's supposed to happen

[gentle mulch]

hey rippers it's me the tkt

welcome to another mirror dungeon video

[fluid whale]

I think the thing that's sending me the most is that they're mirrored

it lowkey looks like they're looking at my skill bar

like "hey, how is this fair"

[gentle mulch]

CANTO 3 DROP SOON

SOOOOOOOON

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON

[tiny cave]

Canto 3?!

Holy shit I wonder what’s gonna happen to Sinclair

[split beacon]

we're going to KILL Kromer

[tiny cave]

Hope we don’t get bailed out by the Yellow Harpoon again

[faint pivot]

The who

[gentle mulch]

theres literally no way

[tiny cave]

Part of the Yellow Man group

Alongside other yellow coloured people

Like uhh Lulu with her yellow bat

[gentle mulch]

post canto 9 we'll unlock green mode

[cloud wadi]

give me trichilocosm

[gentle mulch]

show me rock

[faint pivot]

Show me a billionfold universe

[cloud wadi]

btw

a weapon that erases users memories to gain power

isn't that

a Dieci relic weapon

[fluid whale]

it sounds like it, but there are lots of similar technologies in the City

[cloud wadi]

yeah wondering if|| dieci relic weapons and ryoshu's sword shares the same source||

[split beacon]

yeah fucking huh actually

not the first time dieci relic tech has come up in this Canto is it

[fluid whale]

oh

you know what else we know about the Dieci?

they're an association that takes in a lot of orphans

[gentle mulch]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhh

it's fucked up clues

[split beacon]

wait what the hell is this

[ebon forge]

Anyways I’m of the Duihui Baby theory rn

[split beacon]

first a Dieci relic being used as a prosthetic, then a weapon like a Dieci relic replica appears, there's a number of children with unaccounted-for parents being raised by Nursefather "parents"...

is the reason we got Sora's ID first because they couldn't give the game away about where the apprentice kids came from too early?

[quaint cliff]

Fingers crossed that all of our theories are wrong, goodbye

[karmic escarp]

wow ryoshu finale tomorrow and i havent done anything so i started reading but immediately got tilted at clash lose
if i want to speedrun all the fights is there anything more optimal than heishou spam (not that i mind that i just wanna know what the best option is)

[tiny cave]

Damn my theory that Dante will survive is wrong?!

[split beacon]

heishou spam isn't even good this canto

bleed's been pretty effective I guess

[karmic escarp]

returning to my roots eh (bleedspam)

the first two fights being slash weak set me up it seems

[split beacon]

the heishou will roll over Manikins pretty efficiently I guess and there's a bunch of fights with them?

but there's also just a lot of fights where reading is the most effective strategy and targeting is relatively concentrated, so bleed is pretty efficient

[fluid whale]

alright I may have been memeing a bit with my burn team
and I may have taken as little +enemy HP% up as possible
and I may have therefore ended up with enemies getting +9 plus coin power on me

[karmic escarp]

i do like reading

oof

[fluid whale]

...and I may have just walked into the ||Papa Don|| hidden node fight

[split beacon]

wuh oh

that's not good

[fluid whale]

I am going to bed but I'll be interested to see if future me can worm my way out of this

[split beacon]

gl gl I would have just taken the +hp

[fluid whale]

I mean yes, that's why I said "I may have been memeing a bit" in an effort to see if you could keep burning enemies down into the lategame

[split beacon]

anyways the brass tacks is that there's no one team that rolls all of Canto 9 yet that I'm aware of

just have a solid Ryoshu ID or two, level your fucken IDs, read the mechanics

[karmic escarp]

all i need to do is control my anti-rng rage, gotcha

[split beacon]

if you're struggling with the master of the Palermitan spada, uhh

just don't let him do the thing he's specialized at lol

[karmic escarp]

oh im only two fights deep (though i dont care about spoilers)

[split beacon]

I mean that is fight 3

[karmic escarp]

oh

LMAO

[fluid whale]

Yeah, take advantage of it being Ryoshu's turn

Turn on the gimmick hints and highlights if they're not on

[karmic escarp]

already got those up o7

[split beacon]

oh and savor the non-named-character combats while they last

once you're fighting someone who really matters, you're gonna be howling, begging, screaming for the ring manikins to come back

[karmic escarp]

damn 😭

[split beacon]

not really the bosses are actually just mad cool

[faint pivot]

Yeah like

[karmic escarp]

punished for being a lazy bastard yet again

OH LMAO

[split beacon]

but there is also some legit difficulty to go along with it lol

[faint pivot]

They took my kneecaps

[karmic escarp]

pre debuff lei heng tier or...?

[split beacon]

one of them I'd say is lightly comparable to Lei Heng

[ebon forge]

sinking is really good imo

[karmic escarp]

i can take lightly comparable

[fluid whale]

I didn't run into issues with anything but my reading comprehension but they do have hands

[split beacon]

mostly just in the sense of throwing telegraphed Fuck You attacks where if you lose the clash it's like

WELP

[ebon forge]

also

[fluid whale]

Lowkey, look at what the clear statistics tell you and copy them

[ebon forge]

im in trig class now, im gonna fucking distort with the way this shit works

anyways

night yall

[karmic escarp]

those surely happen after youve been given ample time to acquire resources and have the sanity to not lose to a coinflip... right...?

[split beacon]

nah you going in raw 0 SP

lock the fuck in

[karmic escarp]

50/50 lose on turn one..........

[split beacon]

actually I think the cool thing about That One Bossfight in 9 Part 2 is that it doesn't have that

it starts at 0 SP but has mechanics that make it less RNG-dependent and more reading-dependent to handle it as the SP curve ramps up and the fight starts to actually put pressure on

[karmic escarp]

hoh, well i can accept that

[split beacon]

it's kinda sick actually, it's kinda fucking cool that pjm realized that RNG determining if your boss run is gonna fly or not sucks and winning because you used your huge throbbing brain rocks

[karmic escarp]

truuuue
nothing makes my blood pressure spike like losing to a 5% when im at the finish line

[lean fjord]

It's been working well for me tbh

The best part is IMO honestly just new Sinners rotating in with nearly full SP, when I did actually have people die on Dihui

[cloud wadi]

At 80 level

[ebon forge]

ngl its part of why i hate SP

SP feels sad somehow

then again, limbus can't do too much with their system sadly

[faint pivot]

SP stands for sad points, the higher you have the worse it feels to hit tails

[ebon forge]

i really hope we get more mechanics, more buttons to press, more ways to twist the match

[true bluff]

coin flipping is never a good mechanic when it is uninfluenceable from the start.
having ID's or Ego's that force you to start positive or negative will end up being game changing.

[faint pivot]

Coins that flip heads the closer you are to 0 SP

Sinclair is the one who gets them first

[lean fjord]

More EGO spam, got it

[karmic escarp]

those are called negative coins
they even flip heads if youre negative sanity! how nice!

[faint pivot]

Nah nah

The absolute value of your SP is subtracted from the odds this new coin flips heads

[karmic escarp]

im making a joke

[faint pivot]

I'm riffing off it

[neat cedar]

red, what are yoh smoking

[karmic escarp]

ah my b

[faint pivot]

Or hm I'm not turning it into something else, I guess jumping off it fits better

[neat cedar]

absolute scuffed mechanical idea u have crafted

[karmic escarp]

would be fun for a skill 1
the index is all about following weird ass rules right? maybe an index ID with a bunch of clauses on skills that allow you to stay at +-0

[faint pivot]

Smoke? Smoke???? Oh my Hod is that a Lobotomy Corporation reference???????

[faint pivot]

As scuffed as my internet connection right now yes yes! This message has taken (by my estimate) a minute to send!

[vagrant dove]

Some more variations on the theme would be great

[karmic escarp]

vampsault it popping off

[tiny cave]

Trig ez until you get to complex trig

Then I distort

(As I do with anything complex number related)

[karmic escarp]

yo they gave wayward passenger new music??

this shit rules

[cloud wadi]

The new index ids are really fun

[karmic escarp]

my god, it even has a bit of warp express's motifs worked in

[cloud wadi]

I think the mini boss theme of this canto is like

Really really good

In general

Index also have like the hardest lines

Aura farming for the rest of the fingers lmao

||”OUR DESTINIES ARE PREDETERMINED!!!” As they use their aoe||

[faint pivot]

Never forgetting this after pal lost the clash

[karmic escarp]

god i love jeongish shes so fucking beastmode

[cloud wadi]

Yeah she’s great

Index are kinda similar in design to her

[karmic escarp]

the only thing im not sure about is when i somehow trigger kozan and then it doesnt do anything

oh fr? might have to shard donqui once reset hits tomorrow

[cloud wadi]

You have to pick the right option to get your power buff stack high

[faint pivot]

That's when you have less than 3

[cloud wadi]

Get high enough and you Unlock beast mode

[faint pivot]

Just gives you more Power iirc

[karmic escarp]

i do know that
im just more confused about why thats a thing they added in the first place
it's better than nothing happening at all but it's kinda like 'awwwww' when she just holds

[cloud wadi]

It’s punishment for screwing up

[faint pivot]

Considering PMoon's prior implementations I'm guessing it being a portion of a skill was the easiest route

[cloud wadi]

She also has a unique line when she doesn’t do the Kozan skill

[faint pivot]

Hooks into the already established timeline system, there's multiple two-sided skills already, and is probably less confusing a conveyance

[cloud wadi]

I think it roughly translates to “…this hand’s a bust…”

[karmic escarp]

it just happens 'randomly' for me when im early in fights and more focused on SAN gain than card matching (or she just decides she doesnt want to have the right card for some reason)

[cloud wadi]

Haha

[faint pivot]

Punishment for doing that ig

[cloud wadi]

I prioritize card gain to SAN gain

[faint pivot]

Doesn't Hanaish-yeah

[cloud wadi]

Because I’m a degenerate gambler

[karmic escarp]

like she does generally have the right cards
id say like 70-80% of the time

[faint pivot]

Oh wait no I misunderstood Charlie

Doesn't Hanafish have a way to gain SP without clashing

[karmic escarp]

you dont get card gain if you dont win though... or?

[cloud wadi]

No you still gain it

[faint pivot]

It's on use

[karmic escarp]

LOL i didnt read hard enough

[cloud wadi]

She’s also pretty tanky

So it’s worth letting her get hit to stack more cards

[karmic escarp]

i just have to let my damage related paranoia go...

[cloud wadi]

Index a bit less so

Since index Don’s stagger meter is pretty high

But

She also auto recovers from stagger upon entering Unlock mode

[atomic steeple]

Collect my grorbs

[cloud wadi]

So you can be strategic about that

Will never get tired of her chanting DECIDE UNLOCK TRANSCEND

[split beacon]

it's so fucking tuff

holy hell

[atomic steeple]

Wait, it's confirmed the eye relic is a millennium item dieci thing?

[faint pivot]

Either Fell Sang helps with this imho

[cloud wadi]

Index has always been the most aura farming of the fingers

Though I guess that’s easier to do when you have a literal eldritch abomination on their side

Apparently the prescripts are a literal acausal phenomenon too?

As in like, they are actually data that’s confused about its timeframe

[faint pivot]

Wdym

Huh?

[cloud wadi]

The god of the index can look into the flow of future and past and bring out little messages in the form of prescripts

[split beacon]

nah that is weird index propaganda

[cloud wadi]

At least according to Carmen

Whatever the hell that means

In the flutterings of anticipation lies the future... and in the reverberations of regret the past.
Thus, in between the myriad vibrations...
... are faint frequencies that have escaped the laws of causality, captured then by a god of the City and written into Prescripts in which causes and effects are enmeshed in disarray.
It has-It might-It may have actualized-actualize-actualized...```

So the prescripts might actually literally be messages of things that WILL happen

But will happen because they got the message

Cause and effect enmeshed

[atomic steeple]

Well, through human emotions and thought about the past and future

[split beacon]

oh right

huh

I guess the whole future is the past to the prescript thing is just true

wild

[atomic steeple]

Regret, anticipation

[split beacon]

hmm

there's something interesting about that and also Effloresced EGO Procuration

[atomic steeple]

Lament mourn despair

[split beacon]

because "procuration" isn't the same as procurement

it's becoming an agent or being appointed as agent (or appointing one as their agent)

[cloud wadi]

That’s also what index Don says

“FUTURE AND PAST ARE ONE”

She just randomly mutters that during battle

[split beacon]

so what Sora's EGO actually means is that she's a literal proxy of the Will of the Prescript, she's the appointed agent of the Prescript whose very consciousness overlaps in future and past in the same way that the Prescript is slices of information that inform and reverberate with the present to create fated outcomes

the beeper simply allows the prescript uh

access to her thoughts and feelings directly

[atomic steeple]

Kinda similar to HSR with past and future as one, but with better writing
I wonder if there's a common inspiration

[split beacon]

to continually readjust Sora's mind to stay in sync with the Will of the Prescript

kinda horrifying

[cloud wadi]

The magicked beeper

Constantly giving her direct update from the collective unconscious

[split beacon]

but it clears some stuff up for me about what the Prescript is and how such an EGO can exist

it really is the Prescript's EGO

[cloud wadi]

But it does make me wonder if Rien is a heretic

That little beeper must be like

A miniature loom?

[split beacon]

perhaps?

tbh what I've gotten out of this is that if it's possible to wordplay and game Prescripts

[cloud wadi]

Yeah

[split beacon]

then that's like, not heresy

[cloud wadi]

What the prescripts doesn’t tell you to do

Is just as important as what the prescripts tell you to do

[karmic escarp]

kinda like faust maybe?

[cloud wadi]

If it says “undress” you actually have quite the liberty on interpretation

You can take off a hat for instance

[split beacon]

so I think that Rien's whole mentality of language as a tool and a weapon is probably like

[cloud wadi]

Because it doesn’t say undress fully

[split beacon]

less a heretic mindset

and more an advanced believer's one

[cloud wadi]

Yeah

[split beacon]

like if anything that's proving he gets it in a way that most of the Index don't

[cloud wadi]

A theologian mindset

[split beacon]

he's someone who grasps what the Prescript is, which is a tool to adjust the causality of events

and seems to get that his own language can become a Prescript of sorts

[cloud wadi]

Yeah

Because will of the prescript is the collective unconscious

Which means his will matters to it

It’s not actually an untouchable alien being

[split beacon]

that but also like

if you grasp that the Prescript controls literally everything just by the impact of words on paper on the human psyche

you probably also have grasped that you can do this yourself

[cloud wadi]

Yeah

[split beacon]

not as totally

but like, that's what the language as tool and weapon mindset must come from right

REALLY grasping that the Prescript is the way that an unseen God makes its will known to the City at large

[cloud wadi]

A lot of importance is placed in the index about how there’s very unclear rules

Including very unclear rules about what is RESTRICTED

And that people just don’t do certain things in the index because they are afraid of potential consequences

But when you think about it

There really is nothing actually preventing you from disseminating a bunch of fake prescript

[split beacon]

you know what Rien reminds me of

[cloud wadi]

But does this mean that the throne… may actually not be vacant

As we were led to believe

Just hidden

[split beacon]

there's a bit of wisdom I recieved once

which is that it's not enough to mistrust a truly consummate manipulator, because someone who's excellent at manipulating people will come to prey on your mistrust as much as a mediocre one will prey on your trust

that's what Rien reminds me of

someone who knows that it doesn't matter how people respond to him, as long as he can understand it and turn it to his favor

because words are a tool that he grasps better than anyone else

[cloud wadi]

Yeah

[neat cedar]

man

i hate him

even more now

[atomic steeple]

How do you guys think the limbus sanity compares to the sanity in previous games?

[faint pivot]

It's a nice blend of LobCorp and Ruina's

Panic is still something you avoid

But, similar to Ruina's Breakdown pages, sometimes going under and into a Corrosion is what turns the tide

Granted you have less control over how much the tide turns and in whose favor but it's a neat blend imho

[tiny cave]

too snowbally

i preferred ruina's systems (breakdown pages were cool)

not sure why they didn't reuse some of ruina's systems like the separate health and stagger bars

can understand coins instead of dice for mobile game simplicity reasons but like i feel there is more they could have added to the basic gameplay to make it better without complicating it too much

(I would have really liked having deckbuilding or passive attribution but those probably would have been hell for a gacha)

also think they've really been struggling with the whole "winning a clash makes you take no damage" thing and the systems that were designed around that

[faint pivot]

Struggling how

With like

[tiny cave]

trying to get unbreakables to do enough damage to matter, but not so much that your sinners get staggered (or a 50/50 bleed/rupture/sinking stack) and die

[faint pivot]

Ah

[tiny cave]

stagger thresholds were seemingly made assuming your sinners wouldn't lose clashes that often

[atomic steeple]

Unbreakable dice

[tiny cave]

and unbreakables being forced damage goes against that

[faint pivot]

That seems more to do with Unbreakables than with the Ruina mechanic

[tiny cave]

well that's the neat part about the ruina system

because of the whole evade/defense/attack all being on the same page you don't need unbreakable dice

it's not feasible to win every clash in ruina like it is in limbus, you have to choose which ones matter

[faint pivot]

Oh yeah and Ruina clashes aren't all or nothing

[tiny cave]

yeah

[atomic steeple]

Yeah, I felt that in Knight of Despair
"Stop the entire page from doing damage"

[tiny cave]

clashing your 7 guard against their 8 damage maens you take 1

whereas in limbus clashing your 13 clashable guard against their 16 skill means you take 50

[faint pivot]

And beyond that you can be made to pit a large single die against two smaller die

[tiny cave]

or the reverse yeah

see a large single dice skill and can't outroll it? chuck a 3 or 4 dicer at it to get 3 unopposed attacks

[random spindle]

some day guard will be not-garbage

[tiny cave]

clashable guards are getting better

[faint pivot]

You have more granularity in the harm you give/take in Ruina

[tiny cave]

LCA outis' guard is very good as a non-clashable (not giving you sanity still sucks but it still inflicts 9 sinking pot and makes her not take damage)

[random spindle]

I forget how the gold dice work in ruina

[faint pivot]

Ryo casually gaining 7 protection every turn

[faint pivot]

They're counters

[tiny cave]

it will roll against every dice on the page as an attack dice

it will get lost against evades or defends iirc

[faint pivot]

Huh nay

Counters are only lost on loss

If you're the best gambler you can no-sell a whole page with a single counter die

Oh, but every page you receive unopposed always takes away 1 queued counter die, let's not forget that

[tiny cave]

ah i'm thinking of little bird's 30-30 but that's an evade

[faint pivot]

Of what

Oh must be an EGO page

[tiny cave]

oh no that is a counter dice

this one

[random spindle]

Or the attack if yiu hit punishing bird in the fight?

[tiny cave]

yeah

you can break this by sending defense dice at it and you won't die iirc

[cosmic gorge]

gotta say

the pmoonverse does the interesting thing of setting up its entire worldbuilding in a self referential way

with the symbolisms of abnormalities reflecting internal world happenings

and characters referencing other internal characters

[atomic steeple]

That puppet page with a counter and a bunch of other dice is great

[tiny cave]

repressed flesh? yeah

puppet pages are GOATed

which is why that reception is such a pain the first time you go through it

[atomic steeple]

Puppets help with a lot of fights

[lean fjord]

Also if an offensive counter die kills the attacker, you keep it

Which is supposed to be the trick with Ruina Boneclaimer

[ebon forge]

Turns out people don’t like Canto 9 cuz they thought Moses was distortion detective fanservice or something???

Like, I don’t even know her and it’s fucking easy to tell that she’s got some lobcorp nugget flavor to her and that she’s clearly related to distortions

Also I think it’s incredibly funny how people complain about limbus needing prior context to fully understand the story, like

You know it’s advertised as a lob corp / Ruina sequel, right?

Right????

[atomic steeple]

People have weird issues

They are saying it doesn't feel like a story about ryoshu
In spite of the flashbacks and people from her past and apprentices that parallel her

[crimson spindle]

they were expecting ryoshu to start yapping

and its like

are you hearing yourself

[gentle mulch]

we taught this monkey about the median limbus player and it distorted

[cosmic gorge]

This canto is kinda like canto 6

In that its set in a single location

[stoic fjord]

She's the lady who doesn't fucking talk in complete sentences 50% of the time

[cosmic gorge]

Compared to canto 5 and 7-8

Which introduced a corp

[stoic fjord]

Why are people expecting her to start talking about everything

[cosmic gorge]

*nest

[stoic fjord]

She doesn't even fucking know her own past properly

[atomic steeple]

Reminds me as a kid
I was very short on sentences, unless it was to explain something I like

Even further back, I'd use few words like that woman from final fantasy 8

[gentle mulch]

god forbid someone not say every sentiment in excruciating detail

if you wanted an exposition dump for the entire canto just mute the game and play it with a "Canto 9 Explained" video on

[ebon forge]

Exactly what was SEA about again?

I know it was setting up Ishy’s crashout but I can’t remember too well

[atomic steeple]

Basically.
People refuse to engage with a work rather than have an easily digestible mass fed to them

[gentle mulch]

southeast asia?

[atomic steeple]

Specially gacha fans, as gacha tends to be an endless stream of dressed up and easy content

[atomic steeple]

The intervallo, I think

[gentle mulch]

sighhh yea

oh

SEA was molar office and trying to boatify the bus

[atomic steeple]

SEA was ishmael's slow spiral of sanity

And dante feeling doubt and worry

[crimson spindle]

molar office builds us a boat, ishmael loses her shit over our lack of care over what's about to come, a tense compromise is reached where she'll follow orders but no longer be friendly

[gentle mulch]

beach volrybrt

[ebon forge]

It’s so stupid

[atomic steeple]

Both about their ability to help the sinners

[cosmic gorge]

SEA was a bait and switch beach episode

[atomic steeple]

And in the sinners wanting to stay with them

[crimson spindle]

also yeah a lot of gacha fans want solo leveling levels of content engagement

literally just hype moments and aura

[cosmic gorge]

This pains me

[atomic steeple]

Dante only has the sinners as their bonds

[gentle mulch]

if they truly wanted solo leveling content just play the bosses and skip the story

there's already plenty of aura

[atomic steeple]

And due to seeing ish as the composed one, doesn't catch her gloom spiral early

After the triumph of canto 4, this was the start of the moment of doubt

[ebon forge]

Project Moon has me thinking about Little Red Riding Hood in the context of the Salem Witch Trials and their context in a man dominated world, and as an allegory to ||SA||

[stoic fjord]

We play Limbus for hype moments and aura but those moments are hype and aura because of the context

[cosmic gorge]

Theres a dimension of race in the salem witch trials too no

[stoic fjord]

Hype moments and aura become little to nothing without a basis to be hyped and auraed up on

[cosmic gorge]

Like one of the supposed practitioners was a black woman that the white pilgrim kids singled out

[atomic steeple]

I was a hsr fan
Everyone else barely engaged and willfuly misinterpreted things, while I wanted to talk philosophy and worldbuilding
Once pnet people lost interest in hsr, I was surrounded by ignorant slopfans

[atomic steeple]

B the beginning from netflix
Me: this would be awesome in another show, but I barely feel anything here

[stoic fjord]

This is why I don't engage with fandom

I have like

4 friends who play ZZZ

1 friend who plays WuWa

[cosmic gorge]

You mightve liked my friend's yt genshin series back in the day

[stoic fjord]

I talk to them

[ebon forge]

Correct

[stoic fjord]

No one else

[cosmic gorge]

She did lore and philosopjy deep dives

[stoic fjord]

I don't trust the masses

[stoic fjord]

Ooooo... peak

[ebon forge]

It’s racism, and sexism

It’s why The Yellow Wallpaper is actually fire

And why Charlotte could’ve been an absolute sinner

[cosmic gorge]

Someone had that in mind

Drew her as a sinner

[ebon forge]

Yep

[stoic fjord]

Project Moon honestly made me like

50% more of a thinker ngl

[cosmic gorge]

Speaking of yellow

[stoic fjord]

Like just engaging with project moon made me less of a brick

[cosmic gorge]

My greg heffley sinner oc would have some King in Yellow influence in his backstory

[stoic fjord]

KJH got me to think about things even as I agendapost and shitpost and make crack theories

[cosmic gorge]

A mix of greg and the protag of the Repairer of Reputations

[crimson spindle]

project moon is like, intro to literary analysis

the writing does a good job walking you through themes and allegories and references without like, just shouting them at you

it's not hyper deep but compared to the average video game story? it's like the marinas trench lmao

[atomic steeple]

Charlotte?

[cosmic gorge]

If anything, pmoon has convinced a swathe of mostly incurious internet people that heathcliff isnt white
Which he isnt

[atomic steeple]

Pmoon showed me a lot of books for my backlog

[cosmic gorge]

And that alone invites one to think about the actual narrative implications of the Heights

[stoic fjord]

I think something that has been taken as fact but I would argue is not such is that Limbus Company is an adaptation of the books the sinners are based on

I think it is true to an extent, but not like

Entirely

[atomic steeple]

She has big issues with her scars, abd hides her appearance

[crimson spindle]

heathcliff might be white by modern american standards, in some arguments, but he's not by the standards of the time he was written

[stoic fjord]

Like the origins themes are present but things are often altered in service of PMoon's overarching themes and story aiui

[crimson spindle]

he's definitely not pale

[cosmic gorge]

Her yt is out there still but she retired from doing genshin vids

[stoic fjord]

Noted

[stoic fjord]

Pale... like the damage type...

[cosmic gorge]

Could be asian
Asian heathcliff

He was picked up at an international port iirc

[crimson spindle]

he's described as "swarthy"

so yeah, maybe!

[atomic steeple]

Hsr went dumb with the escalation but I still check the lore from time to time
The god of future and endings is a bunch of black cats across the universe

[crimson spindle]

it's england in the 1800s, india is very much in play

but it doesn't matter truly

he's not White English

[atomic steeple]

The way Nelly describes him, she says he could be the son of an Indian queen and Chinese emperor

[crimson spindle]

and that's all that matters

[atomic steeple]

He's ambiguity itself

[stoic fjord]

Aiui they're kind of escalating closer to Hi3 in terms of scale?

And like. Yeah they're getting a bit out there

[crimson spindle]

could be anything from tanned southern european to north african to south asian

[cosmic gorge]

Its funny how jacob elordi within a year is starring as both heathcliff and frankenstein

[atomic steeple]

Is he a fairy adopted? Is he an illegitimate son? Is he just a normal adopted out of an act of random kindness?

[bronze zephyr]

11 hours until update?

[stoic fjord]

Yup

[atomic steeple]

Heath is an outsider
In a way, a stranger
But by his appearance, not mind like meursault

[vagrant dove]

I think I saw that actually

[cosmic gorge]

Great art

Wanted to learn more

[tired canyon]

ooo playtime

[atomic steeple]

Shelter for bugs?

Or perhaps a toy

[ebon forge]

Talking about OG Perriot + Brothers Grimm, not mercenary

[ebon forge]

I though Heath was described using racist terminology in Wuthering

[cosmic gorge]

Red riding hood is like, grim with its undertones yea

Its about a charming and monstrous man trying to take advantage of a girl who doesnt know not to trust him

[vagrant dove]

Also this fr

Like, ryoshu isn't the sort of person to go "My name is Yoshihide and I feel sad because of x", esp when her memories are as cut up as they are

I have kind of a similiar reaction to a lot of criticism of canto 7's earlier parts, like the hype moments and aura don't matter without the buildup and the setting of the scene

[crimson spindle]

Hes called a g*psy and swarthy

[ebon forge]

More specifically, an ogre or werewolf

[crimson spindle]

But thats a very broad range of skintones many of which are "white" now

[ebon forge]

Which brings it to its original context

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werewolf_witch_trials

[cosmic gorge]

That reminds me of a low budget red riding hood film i watched

Its a comedy, but the werewolf could transform into anyone it ate

And the human side was a split persona from the wolf side

[ebon forge]

Either way it’s OG context might’ve been anti-witch propaganda

Also

On the note of literary analysis

I hate how people don’t really understand the fiction/reality split and aren’t taught to divide the two

And how people would rather not take into consideration important context or goals of a book or piece of media

[cosmic gorge]

Downstream of conservative purity culture being repeated in fandom spaces i think

[ebon forge]

Yuh

I love NSO but ffs it’s got a lot of kids who don’t like playing the goddamn game and a lot of bandwagoning to traumadump

[cosmic gorge]

Nso?

[ebon forge]

Ffs treat it not as a basis for your irl identity

[ebon forge]

Needy streamer overload

[cosmic gorge]

Also general lack of reading comprehension which is

A serious problem

[ebon forge]

Fun VN about a depressed girl, based on the author’s internalization of self/mother

Subconsciously, was discovered after a while

[cosmic gorge]

Mmhmm

[ebon forge]

Anyways

Its long story short

Streamer girl whose got heavy Borderline personality disorder, autism, etc going on trying to become successful as a streamer

Whole story is basically about her failures and how she eventually stands up to become a better person

[atomic steeple]

What. Mother?