You cannot respec a character talents from before you meet them
#warhammer 40,000: rogue trader
twin anchor
I rarely take Jae for a very silly reason.
bitter pollen
Think it's part of why Jae seems to struggle a bit compared to Cass, her kit is loaded
twin anchor
My first attempt at a character was 'twin pistols' and the game does not give you the options for it so they made a Special Jae Only Gunslinger Talent. XD
twin anchor
It's not impossible to do well but it's hard to make work super well.
bitter pollen
Jae seems like the main protagonist of a different game set in 40k
She's set up so strangely
twin anchor
Also: Whey does Jae get the twin pistols talent, not Argenta?
Argenta is a Sister of Battle, the order of people with an Express Twin Pistols Martial Art Tradition
bitter pollen
Baffling
twin anchor
Gestures to Seraphim
bitter pollen
And like it's rarely the best option for Jae to actually shoot anything
Girl's Just Fellowship
'Here look, you could do 0-3 damage a few times'
twin anchor
Girl's Just Fellowship
I also got a bit salty about having to split my stats and she turned up with 'Yeah, I just make every skill fellowship' XD
dapper condor
Twin weapon is a feat now (unsure if it’s dlc exclusove tho)
bitter pollen
Jae just has Special Better Talent
twin anchor
Like Jae's not a bad character but man design-wise she's this 'so many unique talents to make her better than you if you compete in her areas'
twin anchor
Eh, she's not even a bad 40k character, I do like her mix of faith and roguishness I just...
Her and Cassia irk me on a mechanical level.
bitter pollen
It's part of why I struggle to make an Officer
twin anchor
As the two characters with the biggest case of 'Yeah, turns out we're just More Special'
bitter pollen
the two you get are absolutely broke
Cass at least pays for it
And has logical reasons for power
what about being a conniving conwoman gives you Fellowship
twin anchor
It's kinda shocking that the Eldar characters are so restrained next to Jae and Cassia.
Like they're good/have unique tricks but they're less 'Rewrite The Entire Game' powerful
bitter pollen
Idira gets a bit more Psyker Juice early on but Also the Peril Chance, and slower scaling
Their talents are all just insane
twin anchor
Meanwhile Argenta: "I start the game with Power Armour Training. Also: You will never see power armour until the end of the game and several suits you do see say I can't use it."
(And still somehow manages to be crazy good becuase 'Soldier Who Shoots Guns' does so well)
bitter pollen
Keeps giving Argenta Armor/Weapons that only a Heretic can touch
it is cruelty
She doesn't even start with like Melta training
Abelard does, for whatever ungodly reason
twin anchor
I think there is genuinely more suits of armour for the Space Marine than there is in 'Power Armour For Argenta' in a given game.
Sorry for grumbling. I love the game a lot but man, it feels like 'game that would lead to a fantastic sequel if the devs could stay focused' 😛
bitter pollen
I understand making companions powerful/unique, but like.. they shouldn't just be better at the Base Kit
it's why I'm fine with Cass, she's practically her own thing
twin anchor
I understand making companions powerful/unique, but like.. they shouldn't just b...
I think it wouldn't be so much an issue if the main character got some extra category of stuff of their own. Like you can eventually do colony stuff to get some bonuses but they're a long way away and most NPCs are 'A standard chargen + extra stuff'.
Like if they gave you 'You're the captain, you can order the ship to provide support'.
Call down strafing runs from ship fighters or summon armsmen as limited abilities.
hardy tinsel
It's part of why I struggle to make an Officer
Boss you should make a Commissar
Commissar is real good with Officer
bitter pollen
Oh for sure, I just meant like compared to the other NPC classes the officers you get are stacked
safe surge
The problem with Cassie is you never have time to use her officer abilities because you are too busy melting people apart via direct warp exposure
bitter pollen
Nawh mines real supportive and she's great at that too, the enemies are too busy burning to death
She gives so much goddamn movement to the team and gets so much herself, feels great as a melee RT
twin anchor
I want to do Psyker(Not Sure On Discipline) into the new bloody dancing path. Had been planning warrior but the new thing seems fun.
bitter pollen
Pyromancer's been a delight in melee, seems like that's sort of the meta Dancer thing
safe surge
I vote pyromancy because none of the companions get it ||unless a heretic locked one does||
bitter pollen
Biomancy does seem fun the rare times I'll let Heiny do something
twin anchor
I'd been debating Divination for 'God dammit, they're dodging everything' but I'v enever used Pyromancer before
I don't know much about how they play.
bitter pollen
Mine's very 'set myself on fire and wade into a crowd'
And if blood dancer is dodgy enough probably works out
I'm honestly tempted by Divination because it seems like a bunch of small spells per turn and Idira is so so so bad about that
Also would give her more time for Sensory Deprivation
twin anchor
(I could also cheat and give myself 2 base paths like Every Other Psyker Gets)
bitter pollen
Truth
wary topaz
oh it must be the cheat engine that lets you respec charcters base classes
I cheated Yrliet into a soldier for a run so I could put her in the guardian armor your can get
twin anchor
I cheated Yrliet into a soldier for a run so I could put her in the guardian arm...
I'm amazed about how many bits of eldar gear are just Functionally Unusable.
hardy tinsel
It's truly bizarre
twin anchor
It's truly bizarre
It feels like an area that could have been msotly avoided if you could also get Mercs of the various non-humans.
So alongside Yrliet you could hire an Eldar Soldier or Eldar Warrior merc
bitter pollen
Would be a nice reward for how some quests turn out
But also I do forget entirely that you can hire folks
jovial anvil
Being able to hire eldar warriors, rangers or adepts or drukhari kabalites, wyches or flesh crafter acolytes would be fun
safe surge
Maybe the second DLC will have more xenos
I kind of understand not wanting to make them easily hirable narratively
bitter pollen
A lot of 40k games do seem to hone in a few types, I understand from like a file size idea but do miss out on the breadth
safe surge
I think it's more development time constraints
bitter pollen
Yeahyeah, especially as graphics improve n whatall
a new faction for Space Marine is an insane amount of work
safe surge
For people who played the DLC: do they rebalance convictions points? Or is it easier to get them because of new dialog (or does the new content not have any conviction gaining options)?
young sundial
I can't say I've noticed any sweeping changes. They could well have adjusted the numbers here and there without me noticing, I haven't exactly been keeping a tally in my head. I've also not played completely through so who knows, maybe chapter 4 they go bonkers with them.
civic musk
There's some new stuff in the new content, at least
It is interesting how Yrliet feels the most recognizably humanist of all the companions
Even Iconoclast is sort of ... humanist-by-the-standards-of-the-41st millenium
twin anchor
She's the one who's by her very path, least set in her ways.
civic musk
Meanwhile Yrliet's over here like "servitors? what the fucking fuck"
twin anchor
That + looking at this from an outsider's perspective likely does a lot
bitter pollen
Do folks have a recommendation as to when to get into DLC stuff? I'm nearing the end of Act 2, I think
civic musk
Uh, there's really no reason not to do it immediately
Like I had Kibellah in my party for most of Act 1
shadow storm
You can recruit Kibellah ASAP but as part of the early DLC quests there's a unique ability you can get that requires Dogmatic 2 specifically.
It's not super important but if you're going Dogmatic anyway, no reason not to wait until you have Dogmatic 2 first.
safe surge
Do they scale the enemies or are they pushovers if you wait long enough?
dapper condor
i respec my Kibellah into an assassin
but I don't really use her an account of my LC being a pyro dancer
(also angered Mezaï verry much the first time i encountered him verry fun)
civic musk
You can recruit Kibellah ASAP but as part of the early DLC quests there's a uniq...
Oh, huh, what did I miss?
civic musk
Trying to bring down that one bonus boss in act 3 without taking any injuries, while I have 3 party members and I am very, very underequipped
young sundial
Sheesh, that sounds rough depending on the difficulty
safe surge
Why were you trying to avoid injuries?
civic musk
I dunno, it makes me happy >_>
safe surge
Ah, that's a fair reason
civic musk
Anyway, I discovered that Chtonos has no ranged attacks and there's an area of the map he can't get into
Whoopsie!
safe surge
lmao
civic musk
In other news: I like Ulfar and his introduction is rad
safe surge
Hopefully now that they updated some maps he doesn't get stuck in a sad corner unable to seriously participate lol
civic musk
Basically what I did to Chtonos
It’s funny that knifing and kicking people seems to be his optimal way to melee
safe surge
Yeah. The knife resetting on kills plus the free kick is neat
He feels much more arch-militant because of how good both his melee and range is. Also the perk that gives strength based on health is pretty funny on him
civic musk
He’s got 120 strength when otherwise the best in my team is like … 65
Which, yeah
Space Marine
civic musk
I love the companion reactions when you persuade Marazhai to switch sides
Kibellah and Yrliet "what the fucking fuck"
dapper condor
Jusy got to commoragh loved to fucked with the trial
Will kill a sneck (anything for fucking with Dark eldar)
||I swear if yrilet wasn’t a good sniper I would jave shank her right away not sure i'm going to fpgive her
... hit her with the "not now" àd tomd argenta she will have to prove her self||
civic musk
Other things I enjoy: automatically deciphering harlequin poems with Iconoclast
civic musk
Alright, Act 3 complete
dapper condor
||should i completly forgiver Yrilet, whip her, sell her to the inquisition, or have her executed||
civic musk
Iconoclast for life
I made some mistakes in my playthrough and now I’m pondering waiting for the other DLC and restarting >_>
Which would on the one hand be very stupid
But on the other hand optimizatiooooooon
dapper condor
should i whip yrilet or ask her to appologies ?
civic musk
You should not whip people -_-
twin anchor
Look ||You'll find plenty of other people here into whipping.||
young sundial
Sauerbeck
civic musk
If your background includes torture Sauerback finds that really hot
dapper condor
||Yrilet is suprisingly okay with it lol||
safe surge
||i did end up in Commoragh because of her||
The reason not to do it is because that plot point is silly >.>
Though kind of even more ridiculous if ||you don't recruit her||
safe surge
Well, tbf I think it could make sense in other media because you probably don't know each other that well when it happens. I think for a CRPG in particular it feels weird because normally party members trust each other with their lives basically immediately. So it messes with genre conventions in a displeasing way. But also I think it needed more foreshadowing? idk, I might be unreasonably salty about that chapter
amber ridge
I found it a compelling part of her arc
I found it a compelling part of her arc as the player
As my character ||I gave her to Heinrix because COMORRAGH ARE YOU FUCKING CRAZY?!||
civic musk
It was for sure a bad time
civic musk
Well, tbf I think it could make sense in other media because you probably don't ...
Had you been doing all her quests and dialogues? I felt her growing despair was quite well foreshadowed
safe surge
I think the chapter was also like twice the length I want it to be
civic musk
But I actually enjoyed Act 3 overall
safe surge
Had you been doing all her quests and dialogues? I felt her growing despair was ...
It is very possible I am dumb
civic musk
Like I didn't see it coming but I also felt it was very believable when it happened
safe surge
I think if you ||actually escaped when you escaped the arena, I would tolerate it a lot more. Or if things were moved around to be about that length||
I might also be more upset at how forced the chapter start is and am letting it spill over
stone hawk
Honestly my main complaint about Act 3 is that ||bringing Argenta there is the only way you ever find out she murdered Theodora.||
civic musk
My temptation to drop my current playthrough and restart for the second DLC is continuing to grow
dapper condor
second dlc ?
civic musk
There's another one coming down the pipe
I think early next year?
It's gonna involve cops.
Oh, no, December
- Lex Imperialis
(coming December 2024)
The second major story expansion sees the Lord Captain join forces with a new companion — a member of the Adeptus Arbites. As the past of House von Valancius begins to present itself in a new light, the Rogue Trader faces difficult decisions that may affect the future of the entire Koronus Expanse.
Over the course of this story, you will get a chance to learn more about the collection of the Imperial Tithe, otherwise known as the Grand Harvesting. Interfere with this fundamental process of the Imperium at your own peril. Discover new areas, game mechanics, and archetypes — and of course, encounter new horrors of the Immaterium.
This expansion likewise offers 15 hours of gameplay.
Yeah I guess if it's that early I'll wait
dapper condor
||thanks to pyrodancer : Maz got delted in two turn, the Genestealer partiarch in 3 despite his shield. Moral of the story do not sit in my chair||
i'm in like act 3
stone hawk
civic musk
Oh shiiiiiii
Yrliet and Marazhai getting better equipment is huge
As is new force swords
Blade dancer psyker agogo
Still going to wait for Lex Talionis but
Nice
stone hawk
Can finally rotate Grand Strategist zones.
bitter pollen
Zone adjustment, a gift from the Emprah
amber ridge
As is new force swords
Oh?
civic musk
There weren't a lot of them in the base game, I felt
amber ridge
There were two
civic musk
The update apparently adds 12
amber ridge
schweet
jovial anvil
No new classes though right?
civic musk
I'll give this to Owlcat (and many other things, to be tbh) -- they do keep supporting their games in significant ways
stone hawk
There were two
3 but one of them is like deep in the Heretic path.
safe surge
Oh, rotating the Grand Strategist zones is pretty nice
Was really annoying trying to position just to have it rotate lol
civic musk
3 but one of them is like deep in the Heretic path.
Oh is that the sword you can assemble?
stone hawk
Yeah
civic musk
Is Heretic like ... interesting?
The heretic choices all seem to be "I'm not sure whether to beat you to death or eat you first"
safe surge
I heard it is very silly considering the rest of the plot
civic musk
Which makes sense, since Iconoclast is specifically the other side of renegade behavior
safe surge
Even if the Inquisitor lamp shades it about how he is going to give you a more lenient hand
civic musk
They do say a similar thing for iconoclast
safe surge
Yeah, but iconoclast is a bit less overtly, well, heretical lol
Though I haven't played the heretic path. But certainly some of the options were not very subtle lol
dim forge
Yeah, but iconoclast is a bit less overtly, well, heretical lol
well it technically is 😛
just in a more reasonable way
safe surge
I think a main complaint I saw was (Act 3 spoilers I think) ||"Why doesn't the person who shot the previous Lord Captain not just shoot you"||
civic musk
Yeah I could see that being an issue for heretic
Frankly if you play as like 80-90% iconoclast and 10-20% dogmatic ||you can pretty much 100% be doing stuff that personally endears you to Argenta, so I can believe she doesn't do anything for dogmatic or iconoclast||
Harder to believe with heretic
safe surge
Yeah, it's interesting how much of ||Argenta's stuff|| is Iconoclast aligned given how she is the ||Dogmatic person for first morality choice||
cunning wigeon
i think the intended read is "the guilt of blasting theodora is eating them alive and thus they're more hesitant to do it again"
like a lot of ||argenta's|storyline is about having to deal with feelings of maybe having picked the wrong thing in pursuit of her faith and ultimately having to reassemble it from the ashes, twitch reacting and blasting theodora is on a long list of What If I'ds that is making her more hestitant to act||
safe surge
That's fair. I haven't done a heretical run yet, but plan too once the rest of the DLC comes out
bitter pollen
Big same, I just run out of steam
civic musk
For me it was a mix of things
safe surge
Act 4 is a bit of a "tie up lose ends" feeling chapter
civic musk
But hopefully when the other DLC hits I’ll be able to put some time into it
I like the game a lot
Realistically I might not be able to do a run before next summer
Grad school is rough and my attempt at a playthrough this fall did not help
barren nacelle
Playing some more Rogue Trader. ||If I get a similar or better Iconoclast ending compared to what I got before, I think this Rogue Trader and the last, would be all too willing to join the Tau Empire in following the tenets of the Tau'va|| (ending spoilers)
||Though not sure how Nomos would feel about the Tau'va||
dapper condor
Rn i'm like in a dogmatic run, when next dlc hit wee atr going full heretix baby
Wére living in the worst time line
civic musk
I've been waiting for Lex Imperialis to restart
meager spruce
so, the game is currently 45% off on steam. Is it worth it?
violet quest
so, the game is currently 45% off on steam. Is it worth it?
it's very good generally- looks nice, portrays the setting properly in both tone and style, companions are written well, and combat is quite fun (it's tactical turn-based)
downsides are that it also is quite time consuming- about 90 hrs per playthrough- and since it's an Owlcat game, there's probably going to be quite a few bugs here and there.
civic musk
so, the game is currently 45% off on steam. Is it worth it?
Yes
barren nacelle
so, the game is currently 45% off on steam. Is it worth it?
Absolutely
barren nacelle
civic musk
Targic
rare pagoda
weary dawn
civic musk
Fun fact: a death world blade dancer actually gets stronger from most traumas, and can self-inflict them with blood oath 😨
Two traumas, +50 agility, +20 weapon skill, +30 willpower
safe surge
Really leaning into the "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" adage
civic musk
The class is absolutely nuts with psyker bs
civic musk
See this is what I like about the writing for this game. There's always a layer of the human doing their best under the utter madness of 40k and its societies.
violet quest
See this is what I like about the writing for this game. There's always a layer ...
i love opticon 22
he's real
(and yeah, in general, the characters are very human despite the shittiness of the galaxy- heinrix is another great example)
rare pagoda
I can't wait for the next sale so I can play this.
civic musk
Janris Danrok is another good one
civic musk
Reached the point in the game where Cassia + any one DPS character can effectively stomp everything
bitter pollen
Getting enough Momentum on your Granted Bonus Turn to earn a Third Turn, it's just wild
officers have to be one of my favorite support classes in any RPG
( though it does break the game )
civic musk
It also helps that Cassia herself does silly amounts of AoE damage and is really tough
But yeah I reached exemplar so now she starts with 7 AP and uh
bitter pollen
I truly lose track of what keeps granting her bonus toughness
civic musk
That is enough for her to do a lot
bitter pollen
There's so much
civic musk
She gets to use Willpower instead of toughness for wounds iirc
bitter pollen
'also i can move 21 spaces, and on your turns so can you'
civic musk
It's just funny to see this frail little navigator walk up to a chaos space marine and stare him to death in a single turn
bitter pollen
those nightmare experiments sure did some effective work
civic musk
Apparently!
bitter pollen
and it only costs the sanity of a few roomfuls of people a month
cunning wigeon
it's a canonically accurate level of navigator power tbh
the reason you don't see it commonly in 40k stuff is mostly that navigators are too important to risk in petty combat
civic musk
Ah, so they are just generally absurd?
cunning wigeon
yes
they're specially bred uberpsykers with special abilities and very few limits legal or otherwise
bitter pollen
it does sometimes feel silly to have her meandering around on sidequests with ya
but nice for her to see the world
cunning wigeon
the issue is you need one to make any warp jump longer than "next door"
civic musk
Most of the RT's revenue should not really be going planetside to explore
cunning wigeon
so most navigators never leave shipside
civic musk
Hell, the RT shouldn't be
cunning wigeon
because the risk is absurd
civic musk
It's just sort of a conceit of the game
bitter pollen
also we're a Funny New RT and we have cool new ideas
cunning wigeon
if a battleship's navigator decides to go downplanet and trips into a ravine that battleship is now functionally stranded
civic musk
There should be a 40k game where you just play a navigator stuck somewhere without a ship and you Cause Problems
bitter pollen
it does make me wonder how anyone gets anywhere, just how many navigators does the empire chew through
civic musk
IIRC a lot of smaller ships do small, local warp jumps
And like Abelard's niece has a theory on how to make that easier
bitter pollen
just need a little more sauce when you're firing a City Ship across space
I love how RT captures the scale
cunning wigeon
yes, short "safe" jumps are the standard and the vast majority of ship traffic
civic musk
Well, and if you're trying to go from Cadia to Terra or whatever in one jump
cunning wigeon
the equivalent of short haul trucking
civic musk
You need a Navigator
cunning wigeon
following known safe routes across short distances
the problem is that doing this to get from say, terra to cadia, yeah, would take hundreds of years
civic musk
(The whole thing with the niece is she's got a theory on how to help reestablish safe routes by leaving Big Honkin Lights in convenient locations that regular ships can aim at)
cunning wigeon
ah the mini-astronomican approach
bitter pollen
that sounds vaguely familiar
civic musk
Plasma beacons
bitter pollen
but who would ever use big honking lights to steer ships
cunning wigeon
it's a popular proposal that's been tried but uh, the psykers keep dying
civic musk
Oh, no, like physical lights
cunning wigeon
and the other concepts aren't warp-visible
safe surge
Oh, huh. Most Warp-capable ships don't use a navigator in the Imperium?
safe surge
I'm surprised
cunning wigeon
the vast majority of warp traffic in the imperium is going back and forth between neighboring systems on safe short routes
with no navigator
civic musk
You can meet her at a party at the end of Act 2 and if you encourage her she starts pulling out her Spreadsheets
safe surge
Is it just that mostly the fiction is about military ships and those will all have navigators?
cunning wigeon
"Most merchant ships lack Navigators or Astropaths. Consequently, many take generations to fully complete their preset circuits, and often become home to communities of void born who never set foot on conventional worlds. These long circuits are often the only contact that the Imperium has with some of its more isolated worlds, and the Captains' reports can be the only method by which their existence is remembered. To the worlds that they visit, the arrival of the trading ships can become prophesied events of great spiritual significance."
bitter pollen
You can meet her at a party at the end of Act 2 and if you encourage her she sta...
there's such a good density of Passionate Nerds in this game
safe surge
But Imperium Government ships will
Like the system government's ships won't have them sort of thing?
cunning wigeon
yeah pdf defense boats don't have navigators
safe surge
They probably don't need to wrap anywhere so that's pretty reasonable
civic musk
And most folks don't really have cause to go very far
safe surge
"Most merchant ships lack Navigators or Astropaths. Consequently, many take gene...
I don't think this actually makes sense if you are trading anything useful, and I didn't think Warp routes were that stable. But it is cool and that's mostly what 40k cares about lol
civic musk
Also, a lot of trips aren't decades in length
They're between two neighboring system and while they won't be quick they'll be like
On the order of Age of Sail aiui
You can justify spending a few years at sea if your cargo is of sufficient value
cunning wigeon
their circuits are long but each stop is short
they're just doing like, hundreds of worlds, so each invidual world doesn't see them that often
anyway back to the point, in canon navigators can do the lidless stare and basically vaporize the mind of anybody unshielded against it
and are inhumanly tough and strong
cassia is a peak navigator and has basically their full powerset
safe surge
I found Cassia was really strong early game damage wise, but falls off compared to a dedicated combat character mid-late game
cunning wigeon
oh, and it also destabilizes any warp entity in realspace, like daemons
it's just that again, usually you're not risking your navigator's ass in a petty firefight on Assend Nowhereus
civic musk
You can equip her to make her damage more effective
Also Waking Nightmares is a very, very strong debuff
safe surge
(mostly because a dedicated combat character is somehow more ridiculous)
For sure. It's just at some point in the game you can just kill everyone in the first turn lol
Turn 0 before they changed how officers work
civic musk
It also helps that you're usually giving her Grand Strategist
Which always takes first turn
To set up its zones, and of course frontline causes enemies to take more damage o_o
safe surge
Yeah, she's still really good even if she stops doing the most direct damage
civic musk
Bolter/Flamer Argenta can hand out more total devastation but
safe surge
The trick is pistol Argenta. But they might have fixed that one combo
civic musk
I've been doing well with Arch-Militant heavy weapons argenta
She hauls around a heavy bolter and a heavy flamer and makes everything dead
safe surge
the one that gave you extra attacks for pistol shots that added a shot per attack in a burst, plus the pistol that required no AP to fire. Just an absurd level of versatility stacks
civic musk
Ah
safe surge
In my second playthrough I decided not to give her a Heavy Bolter and I think I stumbled into something stronger lol
civic musk
Something fun is that weapons that can't do single attacks and only do burst fire have some weird interactions with a lot of abilities
bitter pollen
I did pistol argenta in my first run and it is bonkers, but that just might be the nature of the class and the gal herself
Though 'Single Pistol Shots Always Crit' is kind of gamechanging
civic musk
I think the current consensus is that as of 1.3 heavy weapons are better for her?
I thiiiiink
It does mean less gear competition with Jae
bitter pollen
I struggled to make Jae not feel outclassed by Cassia
safe surge
Jae has the problem where you get her late and so she has some suboptimal choices made by the devs baked in lol
But also Cassia is ridiculous
civic musk
I struggled to make Jae not feel outclassed by Cassia
She absolutely is, but she is also Good At Most Skills, so giving her a team slot feels reasonable most of the time
And I don’t even have any other Coercion or Commerce specialists
Master Tactician Jae is a very nice force multiplier for Argenta/Yrliet/Ulfar
Especially if you’re going iconoclast and eventually start being able to do Heroic powers pretty non-stop
safe surge
That ability is incredibly good
civic musk
TFW you give Assassin Yrliet a shardcarbine in chapter 3 when she is missing most of her gear and wtf did she just do 800 damage in one attack
wary topaz
Assassin operative is good as hell
civic musk
Specifically, weapons that only have burst fire, with no single-shot option, uh
Will be used with single-shot assassin effects applied to the whole burst
wary topaz
Oh jeeze
civic musk
Idira you can't just say that
wary topaz
I mean yeah but also hazing is the last marazhai deserves
tight flare
Idira you can't just say that
She can say that to Marazhai
bitter pollen
My only ungettable guy
jovial anvil
Idira you can't just say that
I love that marazai has no good comeback to that like he normally does
wary topaz
Oh my phone autocorrected
I meant to say that hazing is the LEAST thing marazhai deserves
tight flare
A favorite moment of my playthrough was getting Marazhai into the party, the rest of the party instantly plotting a mutiny at home base, and when I get in and there's the big tense showdown scene
I just go 'oh yeah I'm totally down with killing him now that that fights over'
bitter pollen
I remain stunned by his popularity, internet artists seem to consider him the only character
wary topaz
I mean he's fundamentally a tumblr sexyman but evil and with the twink dialed up to 12
Like if the onceler was into unsafe insane and nonconsenual bdsm
bitter pollen
Plus not a whole bunch of men in the game for that fan base to latch to, it's him and several Old Fellas
wary topaz
Yeah
bitter pollen
This is just the most repugnant of the sexymen, he seems like.. that She-Ra guy but he showers less
bitter pollen
That ain't scrung, you can't be both this smug and scrungly, it offsets itself
wary topaz
Hmm
bitter pollen
Oh wait he's Zenos
wary topaz
I think you're right, and I'm misusing scrungly to mean endearingly wretched
bitter pollen
Nawh i can see it, they both don't seem to consider their whole personal effect outside of "blood and violence"
It's like dark scrung
They're not just like pompous villains
Zenos dead-fish-lookin expression
wary topaz
So, I kinda see Zenos as like, a philosophical aesthete for the adrenal thrill of violence
When he doesn't have it, he's bored
Whereas Marazhai cares about blood and pain
Zenos would never torture, because it'd be boring
Whereas Slaaneshi has rendered the drukharii as suffering addicts.
Marazhai is more pitiful and will treat you worse
bitter pollen
Zenos would never torture, because it'd be boring
'And now I steal your body and kill your friends with it.'
The protag is Zenos' obsession instead of a more generalized murder lad but pouting while you behead villagers doesn't mean you aren't doing it
wary topaz
I mean that's just because he's trying to motivate us
bitter pollen
Motivate the canonically most motivated person alive
They both get to be pitiful
I will say it was fun to utterly refuse his passion all game
wary topaz
yeah
civic musk
incredible
jovial anvil
Do we know when the dlc with the arbites will release?
civic musk
"Spring" I believe
brittle matrix
incredible
Oh that is wonderful.
rare pagoda
Rogue Trader is on sale yet again on Steam.
civic musk
Love how well this fits - of course a Space Wolf would be totally down with a relatively isolated people like this one, this is just like Fenrys
young sundial
So I booted Heinrix off when I chatted with XC and they gave me the option to keep say no I don't want him on my ship anymore, but I guess Heinrix is now following me around in a shuttle communicating by radio or something?????
young sundial
Nope, the only mod I installed is extra keybinds
civic musk
Huh
Weird
Also: hit max level at the end of Act 4
I like that increasingly in CRPGs you can hit max level early and just play your build
young sundial
It is nice
Or consumes the entirety of your profits respeccing cause you cant make up your mind wtf to do
civic musk
Profit factor is tight for a while, but by chapter 4 I had like 190
Act 4
Also I turned the difficulty up to Unfair because I was clearing entire boss fights in one turn from Cassia
I might turn the skill check difficulty back down to daring's level though
Since just being 20% worse at skill checks doesn't seem all that interesting
young sundial
You could just modify the skill check penalty, I think I saw that somewhere in there
young sundial
Keep garry'smod out of my game
civic musk
I could also just get into the habit of equipping all of those +skill items I've been hanging onto
It is kind of weird how like
I have 40 xeno-artefact cargos but can't do anything with them since I already maxed out the merchants I can actually give them to
Kinda wish I had known this would happen so I could have given more to the other two
No one told me I would get an enormously fuckhuge number of xeno artefacts
young sundial
Your clearly a far more prodigious explorer than I, I'm sitting in chapter 4 and barely have 1 faction maxed
civic musk
Huh
civic musk
I found the various Problems With Drukhari gave me an incredibly huge amount of cargo
young sundial
those looting bastard
I coulda sworn there was a way to convert cargo into misc cargo
maybe I am crazy
civic musk
If there is I would love to know it
young sundial
You know what I think that was something from a mod that was from back when the game had a steam workshop, and is now super obsolete
civic musk
Ah, okay
Yeah, tbh I'm playing with Toybox for a few QoL things, I could just set the numbers higher as is
But I'm actually pretty close to completions with the Explorators and Drusians anyway
And I'm not sure I need anything else the Drusians have
young sundial
tbh I don't think you'd be breaking [that much] the game balance or anything if you did it at that point in the game
safe surge
I think the intent is to be able to max two plus the Navy* without ridiculous grinding
* This requires specific building choices, which I find irritating lol
civic musk
IMO the big thing is just getting rid of stuff you don't need
civic musk
I think the intent is to be able to max two plus the Navy* without ridiculous gr...
It does?
Is there like a higher rank of Navy stuff that you can only get if you're a naval officer?
safe surge
I mean planetary buildings. I think you need both of them to max out? Maybe I missed stuff on my playthrough that gives rep with them
I'm not aware of any naval officer bonus, but I won't say it doesn't exist
civic musk
I mean I was able to get through the whole ladder just with trophies
I thought you meant that something adds additional rungs
safe surge
huh, interesting
young sundial
I have a mystery, Idera.
when she casts this on herself it seems like the bonus increases
so like, I cast it once and it move from +14 to +18
next round I cast it again and it goes to +22....etc
I suppose this means something she is doing is increasing her psy rating by 2 every turn?
but I can't for the life of me figure out what
young sundial
I think it has something to do with cass casting reveal the light on her
civic musk
There are various talents you might have taken that temporarily increase psy rating or the size of a bonus, but I can't think of a relevant one offhand
young sundial
I tried creating a custom psycher with similar psychic talents, but I could not replicate the effect
civic musk
Huh. I dunno.
civic musk
Awwwwwwwww
civic musk
I tried creating a custom psycher with similar psychic talents, but I could not ...
Is she wearing Warp-Conductor's Gloves?
I noticed the same thing, and noticed my PR had been raised by them
safe surge
There is definitely something that increases psy ratings on a trigger. I think it might be a talent? I don't remember who gets it, but it would make sense if Idera (but I did think it was pretty late game)
civic musk
Warp Conductor's Gloves specifically increase the rating whenever Idira does perils of the warp
civic musk
There are a couple of other temporary ways I can recall
There's a talent that gives you +1 when you're on fire
Idira rn
young sundial
LOL
young sundial
Warp Conductor's Gloves specifically increase the rating whenever Idira does per...
YEP it was the gloves, ty
hmph, but a sanctioned psyker cannot equip it, so I would need to make another character and have it reach 40 to use it I guess
safe surge
Like start a new game? Or can mercenaries pickup the talent that turns people into unsanctioned psykers?
young sundial
if I wanted to do that on my RT yeah start a new game and make sure I don't start as a sanctioned psyker
and yeah I can probably hire a mercinary and just start them off as a non-psycher
but that means I gotta spend like 20 minute leveling them up and equipping them, and while I might be playing a game with a 50 hour campaign I aint got that kind of patience
civic musk
Yeah, I don't think that psyker awakening to be unsanctioned is generally worth it - if you want to do psyker stuff specifically you kind of want more of it than you can get in those last 15 levels
20 levels? I don't actually remember
Also you're missing out on Exemplar talents
Which is quite a loss
And there are enough other ways to boost PR that I don't think being unsanctioned is terribly valuable
Even without Eyes of Joyeuse
(Idira also does the job very nicely)
young sundial
yeah
but sometimes I want MY special boy to do the job nicely
and tbh I play a lot of co op so we end up with parties of many mercenaries, and I don't always get to play as idera
civic musk
Not even counting the Deaths From Above
Also I reached Act 5
Still not really hard on Unfair
But harder
young sundial
Yeah, increasingly I am coming to the conclusion that you scale better than the enemies in the games current state
Even when there's a difficulty spike your going to get better by the end of the act
bitter pollen
Especially tacking on Officer onto an already-well-put-together Soldiertype
Just the numbers roll together so brutally and there's a dozen items that amplify things even more
young sundial
The danger of making a game that lets you freely construct cool but exploitable gimmicks on 6 characters at once
The numbers go up
civic musk
I suspect part of it is that the game scales extremely well with systems mastery
It's a complex game with a lot of moving parts and Owlcat probably didn't want to require a really deep grasp of all of them
So when you do start to see how to construct beautiful machines ... things get wild.
Also not a lot of trap choices, probably for the same reason
(Act 5 spoilers) ||I just got Incendia in the party, and while dual-pistol Soldier/Master Tactician melta specialist isn't perfectly optimal compared to some characters, she is definitely wrecking shop||
young sundial
(Act 5 spoilers) ||I just got Incendia in the party, and while dual-pistol Soldi...
I've always struggled getting meltas(and plasma) to feel effective. Even against enemies with high armor, which is what I think they are meant to be used against. Maybe cause it seems like warp powers ignore armor?
That said I have not really tried to make a fully meltas based character since the big gameplay balance changes
civic musk
I've always struggled getting meltas(and plasma) to feel effective. Even against...
Plasma can be really amazing, I have Pasqal set up for it and he does a lot
I don't know if melta would be worth much before endgame
Certainly dual-pistol melta doesn't really shine until Act V
That said bolters, flamers, and drukhari burst rifles beat out pretty much everything else
young sundial
Yeahhhhhh
civic musk
And the burst rifles only in a very specific context
(The ones that can only fire in bursts and have no single-shot option will transfer abilities and effects that only apply to single shots normally to all of their shots)
(Assassin Yrliet can be a lot better making use of this)
young sundial
I wonder how shotguns scale
civic musk
I could see the double-barreled shotgun keeping pace
And there's that one shotgun pistol which is amazing
I think the former of those would need a ton of armor mitigation though
young sundial
Non-burst aoe has some sort of intelligence scaling right
civic musk
Yeah
And soldiers can change that to demolition
Part of why flamers can get so crazy
young sundial
Demolition is what, perception?
civic musk
Agility
young sundial
Gotcha
civic musk
My setup for Argenta goes heavy on it and alternates flamers and bolters
Same for Ulfar, although his build is a bit different
0 AP kicks are a hell of a drug
young sundial
He's wild
civic musk
I think Argenta is probably strictly more powerful, but
young sundial
I don't think I can make a character that rivals how tanky he gets
civic musk
A vanguard can surpass him, fwiw
Blade Dancer/Executioner medicine specialist kinda maybe sorta gets close-ish
But for pure HP numbers, yeah
Best in the game
civic musk
Cassia is up there for tankiness, hilariously
young sundial
Oh yeah absolutely
young sundial
I dunno what I expected (Heretical spoilers) ||uralon the cruel to be, but commander+master tactician was not it||
civic musk
||Jae but a space marine||
dull violet
Sadly I couldn’t find the original artist to site
dapper condor
Hey wich girl can you romance in an heretic plauthrough ?
Asking for a friend i swear
civic musk
Maybe Jae? I actually have no idea, none of them seem super fitting
dapper condor
The ruinous power is only for Aces i see
cunning wigeon
owlcat generally makes Full Assed Evil routes drive away almost all your friends
if you want the blood to flow you only get to hangg out with the other blood flowing weirdos
civic musk
And tbh that's fitting
I know The Evil Route is an expectation in CRPGs and I like it when developers make it hideously unpleasant to even consider doing, with little of the bathos that traditionally accompanied it
(Some people like evil bathos and that's fine, but it's not for me)
cunning wigeon
my favorite example is the hidden path in wrath of the righteous, ||the swarm that walks. If you go down it and become, functionally, a tyranid hivemind controller, you have to kill everybody. Nobody willingly signs up to help the guy who is now a bunch of bugs that will eat the world.||
civic musk
Mine is Jade Empire, which for all its flaws, has one of the most compellingly repulsive takedowns of even the idea of an evil route (as well as "no it's not an evil route what do you meeeeeeean")
twin anchor
Jade Empire has a couple of characters who'll stand with you if you go the biggest dickhead route but not many.
civic musk
Well before then you're being The World's Biggest Asshole by playing Closed Fist, which I appreciate because Closed Fist reads like the way an asshole would self-justify
twin anchor
I just wanted Cool Lightning Techniques ;-;
civic musk
It is a damn shame that the weather style is locked behind it, yeah
It's so much cooler than the earth style
twin anchor
I do think that Open Hand/Closed Fist could have been better than just 'Smug Good/Self-Righteous Evil' but the game...doesn't do that.
civic musk
I think if Closed Fist had actual texture it would lose what, to me, is its thematic point
cunning wigeon
i think closed fist suffers from Having Two Points Syndrome
there was clearly a conflict in the writing between "guy who wants to make a point about selfishness and evil" and "guy who wants to make a point about philosophical ideology"
civic musk
I guess to me I see the first one yielding to the second in a very satisfying way
cunning wigeon
both are potentially interesting but step on each other's toes a lot
twin anchor
Like I think in a game with more intent behind the philosophies as Interesting Counterparts, Open Hand would have benefitted from discussing how it's the philosophy of Good Monsters. People who don't consider themselves evil but go about day to day helping evil succeed because they put Order above Justice.
civic musk
I think that would be fundamentally different though
dim forge
I do think that Open Hand/Closed Fist could have been better than just 'Smug Goo...
they had actually cool philosophy behind it theoretically
and then the rest of the game just totally ignores that
civic musk
I guess my view is that the way Closed Fist describes itself is an absolute pile of red flags
And I appreciate that those red flags get followed up on
twin anchor
While I'll admit, Open Hand was full of Red Flags for me.
dim forge
it definitely has its own share of them, yes
twin anchor
And it not getting much follow up I found unsatisfying.
civic musk
Because tbh I don't think anything the Closed Fist spirit monk does is out of keeping with the philosophy as stated
Which is very ... libertarian?
Ancap?
I'm struggling to find a word.
twin anchor
It's very Individualist.
cunning wigeon
my complaint is that neither of them are really aligned at all with the actual way factions break down in wuxia
which would have genuinely been a more interesting way to do it
twin anchor
While Open Hand is very Collectivist but it's own red flags get glossed over.
civic musk
"Individuality for me but not for thee because I'll beat you up"
cunning wigeon
like genuinely the game would have worked better with an Orthodox/Unorthodox split
and maybe a secret Third Way that is some level of either out of context or evil
civic musk
Aye, ultimately Jade Empire isn't especially a wuxia story, it just kinda wears wuxia aesthetics
twin anchor
Orthodox, Unorthodox, Hetrodox is the split Legends of the Wulin uses.
civic musk
Which is a whole other issue
dim forge
While Open Hand is very Collectivist but it's own red flags get glossed over.
I do wish the more sinister bits of Open Hand had gotten more focus yeah
because I think it's a very interesting space too
cunning wigeon
Hetrodox is just another wway of saying unorthodox
but I get why they used it
the "third way" in most wuxia settings is like, an out of context problem
you have the orthodox, who are solid, principled (or at least have codes), and generally constrained by morality, but tend toward being too slow and superior to act toward those at the bottom of the hierarchy and locked into overly orderly frameworks that make no allowances for people's differences.
civic musk
Orthodox are also often in power and have a stable alliance
cunning wigeon
then you have the unorthodox, who are generally more free to act and do individual things, and often have significantly more interactionn with the common man, but also therefore tend to harbor more immortal or outright monstrous people who are just too strong to gainsay, and are prone to causing chaos due to shakeups with a loose control
twin anchor
LOTW used Heterodoxy for 'Yeah, you are just a full on Evil Martial Art Cult Antagonist'. With Unorthodox for 'You are not a classical principled wuxia hero but you still have traits that make you a hero'. The Southern Dragon Pirates are not very Principled but they're Loyal and Courageous, with many of them quite Compassionate.
cunning wigeon
the Third Paths vary from outright evil to just weird and unmatched to local mores
civic musk
The third faction, often termed "the Demon Cult" varies a lot
Sometimes the Demon Cult is full of good guys, even
cunning wigeon
classic third paths are various forms of "demonic" cultivation, which are anything from unfairly maligned weirdos to monsters who eat babies
and "blood" cults, which are almost always baby eaters
civic musk
Or a mix of the two and everything in between
The big thing re: Jade Empire is that it's not like ... actually drawing on wuxia tropes even a little
There's no jiang hu
cunning wigeon
which is a shame, because the basic plot is extremely open to wuxia interpretation!
civic musk
The only wuxia element it has is punching
cunning wigeon
the whole master li thiing is like, 100% classic Evil Master stuff
civic musk
It was very much a game from 2005
cunning wigeon
and a giant flaw in orthodoxy
civic musk
The spirit monks absolutely could have been the demon sect
cunning wigeon
"what do you do if your master turns out to be evil" is a classic and massive wuxia moral conflict
because morality pulls you in two very different directions
twin anchor
LOTW had like...3 different demon cults. One of them was Unorthodox, 2 were Hetrodox.
Unorthodox: The Blood Wind Cult. Assassins who avenge the innocent. Many of them have lost all they care about and temper that rage and hate into a blade against evil.
Heterodox: Vile Rain Cult. A cult that worships sickness and decay and seeks to tear down the foundations of martial society. Black Lotus. A group that want 3 mana really fast and have become alchemical drug pushers, selling addictive and dangerous drugs to those without the self-control to cultivate their own skill.
civic musk
Sometimes the demon sect is Literally Just Manicheans
cunning wigeon
yeah honestly it really should have just been Ortho, Unortho, Other
hetrodox is not a sensible term lol
hetrodox generally means "somewhere in between orthodox and unorthodox"
dim forge
the whole master li thiing is like, 100% classic Evil Master stuff
still an amazing twist
cunning wigeon
differing from orthodoxy but not so far that it's actual heresy
civic musk
still an amazing twist
It hits great, and if you go back and play again everything he says sounds different
twin anchor
I dunno, the term makes a lot of sense to me. Though that's mostly because I've seen it used a lot in Ecclesiarchal areas.
civic musk
An easy example of IRL heterodoxy is like ... tantric practices compared to orthodox Vedic practices
The two can exist side-by-side
(And did!)
But the orthodox don't really like the heterodox in general
cunning wigeon
like the actual way I'd term the split in wuxia is Orthodox, Unorthodox, Outsiders
civic musk
Yeah, that would fit
cunning wigeon
the ones who aren't either of the first two just straight up don't fit into the system
civic musk
Because often the Demon Sect is Manicheans, or foreigners, or something else that interfaces with jiang hu but is not accepted in it
cunning wigeon
and very often are written as originating outside the jianghu as it was defined
twin anchor
I will say: I do really love the setup/telegraphing of your master in Jade Empire.
civic musk
Li is so sinister if you know what's going on
twin anchor
In part because they give you plenty of hints but don't just outright state it.
cunning wigeon
yeah, i just wish they'd leaned more into the moral crisis this would give an orthodox martial artist
stone hawk
"Man you master must have been amazing to teach you a fighting style with a weakness surely no one can figure out."
cunning wigeon
it's the biggest sin possible to raise your hand against your master
twin anchor
'I thought I saw a weakness in your style but when I tried to make use of it, you countered. It's a clever feint' comes across for a lot of the game as just 'Man, the player character is good at this shit'.
But when you know, it sounds very different
civic musk
I guess my thing is, if you stripped out the faux-wuxia aesthetic from Jade Empire, and set it in any other cultural milieu, it would still be a story I liked a lot ... but that is also an indictment of the game as a whole
cunning wigeon
like the whole weakness thing doesn't even need to exist for an orthodox guy
you straight up, if written properly, probably just let him hit you
the first time
out of moral confusion and shock
civic musk
Like, hey guys, maybe don't randomly pick Chinese culture and then tell a mostly-unrelated story using its aesthetics and some sparing folklore elements!
cunning wigeon
and then the spirit world sequence can serve to free you from the bonds of obligation
cunning wigeon
or, this is how to go evil orthodox: you accept his judgement as your master, annd move to assist him
because he is your master, and also basically your father
in several senses
a perfectly coherent "evil orthodox" pathway
civic musk
JE is, however, very much the result of white guys browsing wikipedia and vaguely remembering some kung fu movies and anime
cunning wigeon
i mean there are some deeper cuts in there
which just makes it weird
the entirety of the black whirlwind means someone read the water margin
and then hideously underused him
of course
twin anchor
It's not quite a full 10 on the L5R yikesometer, at least 😛
civic musk
Or just read the Black Whirlwind's entry on wikipedia
civic musk
I dunno
twin anchor
It did but barely. 2001 is when wikipedia came out.
cunning wigeon
the other pathway I ccould see is "playing suikoden"
civic musk
Tru
twin anchor
So it existed but was very much in it's infancy/didn't cover basicly anything non-american.
cunning wigeon
Li Kui (the black whirlwind's) wiki page doesn't exist until July 2005
so yeah someone actually did some sort of research
civic musk
I mean who knows, maybe some guy in the Bioware read The Water Margin and a book about Chinese folklore and that's where Jade Empire comes from
Or maybe some attempts at research were done
cunning wigeon
honestly I could buy that someone played Jade Empire and put his wikipeddia page up lol
civic musk
XD
cunning wigeon
since that's like 2 months after the release
civic musk
But yeah, I'd like either your imaginary actually-wuxia version of JE or my imaginary not-culturally-appropriating-so-stupidly version better than what actually exists
But I do like Closed Fist as a sort of deconstruction of ideologies that present themselves in that particular way
To be clear Open Palm is thoroughly meh, that's just the points I get for trying to be nice
I have no positive opinion of it
twin anchor
I feel like if it hadn't arrived at literally the worst time for sales (It came out and then immediately the Xbox 360 dropped), we might have seen a more involved and better sequal. As apparently microsoft was rushing them really hard.
Also: Man, I still love the Jade Golem Transformation. The game knew how to let you really feel powerful with the transformations. XD
civic musk
I can believe they were being rushed, yeah. It doesn't quite have the Where Is The Third Act disease that a lot of CRPGs like that demonstrate, but you can see the edges of it.
stone hawk
Also: Man, I still love the Jade Golem Transformation. The game knew how to let ...
Good old Jade Golem, the "I don't care what your gimmick is" button.
civic musk
Something I will say I loved is that Sun Li also has a focus bar
twin anchor
Something I will say I loved is that Sun Li also has a focus bar
Yeah, he will just go 'Look, who do you think taught you that?' and start whooping your ass.
civic musk
If you invested very heavily in focus you might be able to almost outlast him
twin anchor
The golems, ghosts and gods pushes it more outside of traditional wuxia but I must admit those are bits I WOULDN'T want sacrificed in a hypothetical Better/More properly wuxia Jade Empire.
civic musk
It also has some Magic Steampunk going on
cunning wigeon
those are kind of part of the related genre, the shenmo novel
which is roughly translated as "gods and demons"
journey to the west is shenmo
civic musk
Would xianxia then be seen as sorta in between the two?
(Although with its own stuff going on, of course?)
cunning wigeon
Xianxia is sort of orthagonal
cultivating to transcend your mortal bits exists in both wuxia and shenmo in some forms, xianxia is basically that becoming the focus of the story
civic musk
Gotcha
cunning wigeon
like think of journey to the west, which is classic shenmo - ol' wukong functionally cultivates himself up to heaven
but that's not the point
civic musk
Aye, I would've by default assumed it was an ancestor to wuxia, but it makes sense that it's a separate genre
brittle matrix
Jade Empire mention!
cunning wigeon
wuxia is fundamentally about people
the truly supernatural intrudes but you're not out fighting yaoguai or whatever
shenmo the gods and demons of the world interfere all the time
the red bull demon comes down from the mountain and kidnaps the local princess and someone has to go beat it with guanyin's stick
civic musk
Which is more Jade Empire's deal
stone hawk
safe surge
Oh good, it's a double-headed eagle
split ether
Why is there basically no documentation on the mechanics anywhere lmao
Figured out that you can shoot multiple targets with Commissar's "At All Cost!" If you have a weapon that overpenetrates, or the first target dodges, But still unsure if it applies the stacks to all of them, only one ally and one enemy, or if it stacks.
dapper condor
Commissar surveilant dogmatic run theb
Would go well with my psyker executor heretic run
stone hawk
safe surge
This feels like something that should have been released at the start of the month lol
civic musk
Well
stone hawk
civic musk
Oh cool shields
dapper condor
Shotguns !
dapper condor
I'll do an heretic campaign whike waiting for Lex imperialis
Pyro warrior into executioner
tight flare
Shotgun dual wielding soldier seems extremely fun
dapper condor
I'm going for a heretic run which romance should i go for (preferably a woman)
civic musk
I don't really know how anyone other than Jae would work for a heretic romance, and even her
dapper condor
Aparently kibelah if i believe the internet
austere otter
You can still romance Cassia as well, right?
though I think Kibellah is probably more developed for a heretic path
as a warning, I'd say the heretic run still doesn't feel fully done, it's quite shallow
still worth doing once if you really enjoy the game though
civic musk
It feels a bit like a heretic run of this game would need to have a substantially different storyline
austere otter
yeah, the fourth act is a bit different but otherwise it's mostly just selecting the moustache twirling option when it's offered
tight flare
Yeahhh
Chaos is
The primary antagonist at every turn aside from the you know what
So as a heretic your kind of just being a renegade maniac with no friends
You aren't like
Helping chaos
You're just making grabby hands at the evil juice that comes out after shooting them
austere otter
You also get 90% of the cool heretic gear by killing other heretics. You might even get more heretic gear on other paths because of this
cunning wigeon
to be fair, the number 1 thing to do as chaos is kill chaos
civic musk
"I fuckin' hate chaos" is such a powerful and ubiquitous emotion that there used to be a lesser chaos god of it until GW retconned it out
dull violet
So um Owlcat has been providing content creators with a cylinder cypher and people have been solving it and it says
I don't think that this is for the rouge trader DLC (though most likely), it MIGHT be for the long rumored ||Dark Heresy game||that keeps randomly whispered
hardy tinsel
||Ave Dominus Nox is the battle cry of the Night Lords, so CSM content of some kind||
jovial anvil
||sunless world points to that as well||
austere otter
I'm finally doing Argenta's act 4 quest, and goddamn the amount of heretic only gear I'm finding
as a reminder, Argenta leaves in Act 4 if you're a heretic
wary topaz
Yeah one of the criticisms i have for it is that there is a bunch of loot that is just set dressing
dim forge
Oh nice
dim forge
Black Crusade game when 😛
dull violet
Tbh chaos route of RT is pretty close
stone hawk
dull violet
The fact that RT is getting MORE dlc is crazy
What would you like to see me I want an ork dlc
With orc Companion a freebooter or weird boy
civic musk
https://store.steampowered.com/app/3710600/Warhammer_40000_Dark_Heresy/
Oh fuckin' sick
dull violet
Oh fuckin' sick
This is my mass effect 5 lol
brittle matrix
Are we gonna get to jack Trazyn shit?!
tight flare
Very interested in the new companions
wary topaz
Know, doing a dark heresy game is pretty smart
I imagine that the gameplay engine is going to be exactly the same as the rt
It'll just be different talents and classes
jovial anvil
Hopefully less of a race to break the game this time
safe surge
Race to break the game, but it leads to the bad (well worst) end because of all the sketchy deals with chaos you have to make
dapper condor
objectif : becoming a deamon prince
safe surge
"I have to swear myself to a chaos god and ascend to daemon princehood in order to save the Imperium" - at least one Inquisitor, probably
dapper condor
i personally would do it for shits and giggles
rare pagoda
Finally starting my first playthrough!!
austere otter
if you're okay with spoilers and navigating giant google docs then this is incredible: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JenL74LpnxLfTdwfIuLy5P_k0Jqi8YlI2SSt4p_oIPE/edit?tab=t.0
austere otter
help for Kibellah romance :
forgot to ping
safe surge
if you're okay with spoilers and navigating giant google docs then this is incre...
|| I am really surprised you can't convert Heinrix to the dark side. It seemed really implied with how he tries to handle the messed up soul-computer||
safe surge
I guess an ||inquisitor can go a very long time doing heresy without fully going chaos||
dapper condor
if you're okay with spoilers and navigating giant google docs then this is incre...
LOL that's the one i found
but thx
||I believe there was a corruption mechanic taht go cut out||
safe surge
Dev time makes the most sense lol
wary topaz
Apparently the companion kroot is a gorl
civic musk
Oh there's a kroot companion?
Wait is this for Rogue Trader or the upcoming Dark Heresy?
stone hawk
Dark Heresy
thorn dirge
a Corsair Way Seeker, yeah
also the human companions are a surgeon with scalpel claws, a Catachan veteran and an augmented Ogryn formerly of the Scintillan Fusiliers (the French guard)
twin anchor
I look foward to Offensively French Ogryn.
wary topaz
I look foward to Offensively French Ogryn.
"I will use ze uuuhhhh, le bonk"
twin anchor
...so is the Eldar your only psyker we know of?
twin anchor
"I will use ze uuuhhhh, *le bonk*"
"I am from, how you say, le space Corsica."
(Corsica has some real fucking statements about it from famous french people. Victor Hugo famously said «Each state has its slave, each kingdom drags its ball and chain. Turkey has Greece, Russia has Poland, England has Ireland and France has Corsica. Alongside each master people, a people of slaves. Poorly built building: half marble, half plaster.». Oddly enough: that line didn't make it into Disney's Hunchback.)
Considering Ogryns normally get treated as 'British Underclass' in mannerisms and stereotypes, I'm half expecting a similar thing for a French Ogryn.
Or more accurately: I 100% believe GW would write that.
I'm expecting better things from Owlcat.
civic musk
Also if the cover is anything to go by, and Eldar Warlock
I wonder if they're going to replicate Yrliet's ace romance there?
jovial anvil
I wonder who the other party members will be, an ecclesiarch priest and a heretek could be cool
stone hawk
austere otter
ah, you can't use a two-handed weapon in either weapon slot when you're using a shield
so you can't sword and board and have a rifle in the other slot
unless you take the talent to ignore that
twin anchor
Makes sense. Weapon swapping is basicly free.
So being able to rifle + sword and board would make it very easy to set things up to constnatly be bringing the shield back out.
civic musk
Hm, but can you have sword-and-board in one slot and dual wielding in the other?
wary topaz
No, thr shield takes up one slot each from both sets
So you have a shield and can swap between sword and pistol
twin anchor
I am curious about how Pistol and Shield will do.
As pistols were not great in Rogue Trader/Jae only made them work with a super specific unique talent
safe surge
The item that gave them free reloads plus free actions per crit plus autocrits on Argenta to stack versatility made pistols pretty good >.>
twin anchor
Versatility could be pretty good actually. As shields are a weapon, not just a shield.
So you'd have pistol + melee weapon.
wary topaz
Yeah there were a few pistols that were decent, but usually on the basis of being burst or aoe and soldier existing
civic musk
Soldiers could do great with machine pistols, Jae could do great with any pistols, and I actually had some late-game success with Incendia using Melta pistols (???)
Do we know about the new companion yet, btw?
austere otter
Solomon, an Arbiter/Soldier focused on shotguns
don't know much about his personality though
Solomon Anthar
looking it up, I think he's dogmatic but devs have implied he's corruptible
tight flare
At the end of my playthrough I had Argents switch from the multi melta she'd been rocking most of the game to dual inferno pistols, so I can see it
civic musk
A couple of top-tier meltas show up right around that time, yeah
civic musk
I did Burst Rifle Assassin Shenanigans with her
There's a weird interaction where you can use single-shot attacks on multiple shots if you do them with a burst-only rifle
wary topaz
Ahh
I think actually it was a shuriken pistol and an Eldar meltapistol
Because I found an Eldar guardian medium armor
austere otter
Lex Imperialis is live
brittle matrix
Can't wait to yell "I AM THE LEX" every time I attack.
austere otter
I'm gonna have to wait until Monday to play it probably, that's when I get paid
but I'm looking forward to some shotgun gameplay
safe surge
Darktide and this game both releasing arbites stuff at the same time is a bit cruel
I wonder how long I should eat for stabilization patches lol
brittle matrix
I wonder if the arbitrators shotgun passive applies to the foehammer pistol or does it just apply to the new shotgun pistols? Or did they rework foehammer now that those exist.
austere otter
austere otter
I've got the DLC and I've been sitting in character creator for thirty minutes
austere otter
I think I'm gonna go Soldier/Arch-Militant with shield and shotgun
or respec 12 times, one of those
bitter pollen
Soldier is honestly a romp, can't quite miss
I always want to finagle some sort of 'lead from the front' commisar thing but the sheer murder potency of Soldier and the like is so tempt
or just leaning more into the Command Officer style is so STRONG
barren nacelle
I've got the DLC and I've been sitting in character creator for thirty minutes
I'm finally in-game after figuring out a name and being horribly torn between Shadow of Torment and Brand of Shame for my Arbitrator Rogue Trader's darkest moment.
dapper condor
While it’s really cool i don’t really see how useful it is
young sundial
Use case: push someone really really really far.
brittle matrix
While it’s really cool i don’t really see how useful it is
You could help a heretic achieve spaceflight with put a voidship.
dapper condor
the most Staunch and pious upholder of the lex
And their Girfriend https://roguetrader.wiki.fextralife.com/file/Rogue-Trader/jae.jpg
austere otter
hot bisexual couple
dapper condor
"Oh yes my sharean and his 12 gauge shotgun"
and his dog"
the basic male Arbites looks like he has a tinder profile with pic of him holding fishes
jovial anvil
Oh they added new portraits?
austere otter
yeah, a man and a woman for the Arbites origin
love the default outfit for the Arbites, wish it came with a helmet
I'm hoping for a Redress update so I can turn off the armour I'm wearing and see the beautiful Arbites armour
barren nacelle
I'm hoping for a Redress update so I can turn off the armour I'm wearing and see...
Same, otherwise I gotta install a transmog mod
cosmic thunder
ah well, didn't know we had a thread for the game
have been playing it for a while and it's been overall a pretty good time.
split ether
From what I've seen people complain about commissar a lot with it being a weak class.
But you get a nice set of bonuses and I think they just shoot enemies with at all cost for some reason, instead of allies?
Also I am almost entirely sure you can shoot both using overpenetration mechanics, (or hoping one dodges)
austere otter
it's not that Commissar is actually bad, it's that Psyker is really, really incredibly good
in a way that distorts all conversations about balance
until Arbiter came out only Preacher came even slightly close
split ether
Well my laptop shut down so I guess we trying the 4 hours long update from the start all over.
((someone unplugged it because "it was already charged"
austere otter
oof
split ether
How do you build Yrliet so that she doesn't suck?
She's outclassed by Pasqual in every conceivable situation the way I built her... Maybe she's not Bounty hunter material.
civic musk
How do you build Yrliet so that she doesn't suck?
Assassin built around dark elder burst-only rifles
They apply assassin benefits to multi-shot attacks
Sadly competes with Argenta for certain burst-fire gear but
Very strong
split ether
She's outclassed by Pasqual in every conceivable situation the way I built her.....
((it's not like Bounty Hunter is bad, cause I got Pasqual set on bounty hunter and he wipes the floor with encounters on unfair, basically hand in hand with Argenta))
NGL I mostly just want to try a team setup that doesn't cling to Pasqual Argenta and Cassia.
Tho I feel like Fish lady is inevitable.
bitter pollen
Cassia is like having a Demigod on your team it is wild
split ether
Cassia, Jae and an Officer RT is obscene with the amount of extra turns you can churn out
bitter pollen
I liked giving my Pyro-Warrior an extra turn because it'd usually earn enough Momentum to activate its own AP refresh and go a third time
But every combat kind of became me personally melting everyone in the room
split ether
I mostly stacked extra turns on Heavy Bolter Argenta.
bitter pollen
I had bolt pistol/crit argenta and she got enough free actions and junk that I never felt the need I guess
Also liked using the like 29 squares of movement Cass gives on the melee folk
split ether
It's mostly cause it let me stack Militant and crit ride-ons obscenely high.
IIRC some ride on effect makes her boost minimal damage based off of dealing crits, so eventually she just...
Killed everything in one shot.
While firing bursts.
dapper condor
should i go power armor with shield and shot gun ? or medium armor and double shotgun ?
young sundial
The shield in one slot perk opens up a 3rd forbidden option for you: Power Armor, Shield+Shotgun, AND Double Shotgun
civic musk
Oh?
austere otter
Shield Master is a new general perk that lets you ignore one of the big drawbacks of a shield (takes half of both weapon slots)
Shotgun mastery is a arbites exclusive perk that lets you use a shotgun in one hand
you can dual wield shotguns, for four shotguns or 3 shotguns and one shield
dapper condor
what are we thinking ?
like that i put one up in strenght and i cna get hevay and power armor
or should i lower my balistic skill for a bit of fellowship sonce coersion is good on arbitor
young sundial
or should i lower my balistic skill for a bit of fellowship sonce coersion is go...
So this may be me misremembering game mechanics, but don't Area attacks like shotguns scale off of intelligence rather than ballistic skill?
though I imagine its a bit late to change it
safe surge
There is a talent to make it scale off of BS, but that might be soldier only?
young sundial
Thats the only one I can think of
Do spells like cass's lidless stare count as area attacks>?
I would assume so
safe surge
Oh, whoops. I was thinking of that. I forgot it used Demolition
young sundial
I will say that using BS instead of int sounds familiar, but I can't for the life of me place where if at all that could be found. Maybe an item?
safe surge
Possibly. But a good chance I just misremembered
dapper condor
exactly why i have 40 in agi instead of inteligence
plus bonus to doges
well not really tah relevant in heavy/power armor
split ether
I wish there was a way to respec characteristics cause I realised I did a goof (overvalued Int, undervalued Fel on this specific character) but IIRC you can only respec the Archetype
... Might just toybox that stuff tbh cause I do not want to redo the opening again in this short of a timespan.
civic musk
Demolition Engineer is incredible
You can get a fuckhuge demolition score without much trouble
split ether
I wish there was a way to respec characteristics cause I realised I did a goof (...
Like damn that is not enough Fellowship. My girl's buffs are dog water.
I think I Clinged to INT because of the AOE focus and my dislike of save-scumming locked chests and doors.
cosmic thunder
Okay so I got myself Void Shadows in the summer sale and frankly thus far I'm not sure if I like having Kibellah around me.
she exlusively talks in occult riddles and keeps staining the floor of my ship.
split ether
She's an ok character combat wise a bit on the weaker side IMO?
but she is very entertaining.
cosmic thunder
her moveset seems rad
split ether
She's an *ok* character combat wise a bit on the weaker side IMO?
but she is **...
But then again to be on the stronger side you have to be a Pyro so.
split ether
her moveset seems rad
She gets incredibly movement range.
One trait makes her gain +2 move per ally kill
Which basically means she can go anywhere if she gets her turn after Argenta or Pasqual~~
Or both.
cosmic thunder
only thing that gets a little annoying is getting her in the middle to second half of a campaign. means a lot of levelup catchup.
eh, this is still my first messy playthrough on modified easy, so it probably doesn't matter if I don't skill perfectly.
Difficulty is something I struggle with in terms of owlcat games. it tends to take a lot of tweaking and adjusting.
easy just has no resistance and normal has these weird difficulty spikes where I'm not sure what's expected from me.
split ether
Wh???
Wym?
Kibbles shows up in Rykad system.
And also all your characters level up at the same rate, there is never catchup
cosmic thunder
I'm literally filling out her entire skill tree from level 1 as we speak
split ether
All you gotta do is click through the menus
Oh, yeah, that. It's not catch-up :v
But yeah she should show up in Rykad
Like. The first system in the entire game.
Unless you loaded DLC mid campaign and she pops up then, then Iunno.
cosmic thunder
my party's level 29, so this might take a while
split ether
TBH spending half an hour leveling up a guy is part of what I consider fun, but I am probably just weird :v
cosmic thunder
nah I think those games are just more made for you
I won't lie, I tend to lose patience with some of those skill trees at some point and just pick what sounds useful at a glance.
split ether
Menus and making numbers go up my beloved <3
There are some things that I struggle with.
I am incapable of using Abelard's whole Navy captain thing.
No Idea how that works or how to make it useful.
Similarly with the fact that I seem incapable of building Yrliet :v
split ether
I am incapable of using Abelard's whole Navy captain thing.
Like all the stuff he got buffs people close to him...
But he is never close to people because he is the melee guy.
cosmic thunder
I feel like at times the game's not that great at explaining some of its deeper mechanics. It took me a while to really get how tacticians work properly
split ether
Tactician and master strategist were the two archetypes I grasped immediately. :v
I was deeply confused about Bounty hunter initially.
cosmic thunder
I thought bounty hunter's quite straightforward. unless I'm overlooking something. iirc it's "mark target and then try murdering target"
split ether
Yeah but I kept losing the stacks because I ended up killing them with other people a lot.
I fixed my mistakes eventually :v
Firstly the "get half of buffs if someone else kills prey" is mandatory, because keeping a guy alive for your [Specil Boy] to kill is just asking for unnecessary damage and trouble.
jovial anvil
I found counter hunter pretty weak when I played
safe surge
It was funny when the bounty hunter's "take a miniturn if someone else kills the marked target" ability let you used psychic attacks. Then you wanted other people to kill the marked target
civic musk
You can still use multiple bounty hunters in the same party to deploy boatloads of buffs
Overseer seems like it may displace bounty hunter tho
safe surge
It is funny that a type of bounty hunter build is where you want other people to kill marked targets so you can cast more buffs. Though conceptually slightly weird
young sundial
I think thats a lot easier to use than actually trying to bounty hunt
Did the first time you see Abelard after entering the warrant chamber always have a cutscene and I don't remember it? Or is that a new feature
wary topaz
I was never able to make bounty hunter feel worthwhile
But that was back before dlcs, I guess
And the assassin nerfs i think I heard about
dapper condor
if you don,'t like kibelah you can always play a pyro dancer
twin anchor
I keep being tempted by a Sanctic Dancer.