#Operation Winter Scar Questions

1 messages · Page 3 of 1

livid cargo
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Like a Veteran or Veteran Commander Assault for example

chrome lagoon
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I mean like built like a PC mech

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as in "someone runs two characters at once, in combat if not in RP"

livid cargo
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Gotcha

chrome lagoon
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Now you obviously hit on some of the downsides, it might be cumbersome for them to want to play that way, I'm only bringing it up because I've done similar things in other games I've played before

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I know some people do run with NPC-class type allies but I'd be concerned about their longevity over the course of a mission/module

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Not anymoreso than any other mine

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fictionally/thematically you can look at the loitering payload as "flying/hovering" etc, but in terms of gameplay mechanics I briefly considered an actual flying mine before realizing what an almighty pain in the ass of clarifications and exceptions that would be and elected not to

hasty pollen
livid cargo
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That sounded simpler in my head

chrome lagoon
livid cargo
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I think I’ll go for the NPC class option, and if longevity becomes an issue I’ll toss in opportunities during the beats to get reserved to restore them

chrome lagoon
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Narratively there should be plenty of opportunities during the first half at least to always have a guy on standby

livid cargo
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And the second half has other reasons too imo

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Think just meeting in the middle with a bonus NPC and a few extra reserves is the way to go

chrome lagoon
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I think the extra body on the PC side will also make your job easier as well

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as in, it'll be less work on your part to have to deal with adjusting NPC levels/actions/etc

livid cargo
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I think this is the third time we’ve both said that exact point lol

pale otter
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QQ, is Battle Oracle frm Amber Phantom supposed to be a reaction or just One Of Those Things That Happen™️?

cold badger
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It's One Of Those Things That Happen

pale otter
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Neat. Asking in part cuz that lets you to yank yourself with it.

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at least from what I recall

chrome lagoon
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It's other characters only

pale otter
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Oh yeah if you're not supposed to self-yank then defo do that

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the other part of why I asked is cuz it read like a reaction, so lol

chrome lagoon
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It can be an allied or hostile character, but there's plenty of self-movement enhancers already present in Lancer and I didn't feel the Amber Phantom needed another

pale otter
frosty rivet
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In the official Artwork for the Gilgamesh, is the backpack the legion nexus or is it missing? Just Curious

chrome lagoon
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The legion nexus isn't in the illustration no, as it would basically be a squadron of subalterns

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The backpack is just a thing Gilgamesh frames get, it's where they store all their spare limbs and limited charges and stuff

frosty rivet
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Gotcha. Just thought those triangles looked suspiciously head shaped 😂

chrome lagoon
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It's an external piece of equipment that's hooked up to the chassis during loadout and has some modularity to it

dreamy eagle
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Is the Legion Nexus actually a gun in of itself, or is it just a laser pointer for your squad?

chrome lagoon
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A "nexus" is largely a command node, so I'm not sure it would look like anything in and of itself

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Having a legion nexus means "your mech has been equipped with the necessary hardware and software to effectively run a bunch of killbots alongside you" and the "gun" portion is your squad of guys who you can order to open fire on people

dreamy eagle
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Excellent, the ominous laser pointer is a go.

frosty rivet
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"Weird looking Blackspot ya got there."

versed agate
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Legion Nexus robots reflavored as a bunch of angry cat droids

inland tree
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The mechanics always made me imagine that it was a gun that gradually peeled off and deployed subalterns from itself - it simply being a command node for an already deployed squad probably makes more sense than that, but I can't help but be fond of that "gun that spits out robodudes" conception

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(art's fuckin sick by the way)

vocal cargo
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like the gligamesh artwork but i wonder what happened to abaddon tho, like is he still making new lancer art? His art is what lancer special to me 🥺

chrome lagoon
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Tom has a wife, a kid, a day job, and like five side projects

cold badger
meager adder
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… Hatsune Mechu, and her legions of fans.

dreamy eagle
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Pictured: 3d6+6 Kinetic damage

round gorge
smoky silo
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it's a real tragedy that the legion nexus has antisynergy with the Bligh from enhanced combat, it'd be hilarious to have an entire frame built around deploy the boys

livid cargo
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In combat 3, where's the drive thruster you can activate?

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Also what kind of damage is the dangerous terrain?

chrome lagoon
livid cargo
chrome lagoon
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These are placeholders

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You should assume the actual illustrated maps will be different

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re: the dangerous terrain, that's something that wasn't in the original draft of the encounter but @pallid girder wanted to experiment with it, and tbh I'm not sure if we've decided to keep it or not

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It's fine if you want to just ignore it, if you choose to use it then I'd probably default it to kinetic for testing purposes

pallid girder
livid cargo
# livid cargo Think just meeting in the middle with a bonus NPC and a few extra reserves is th...

As an update, I did reread the character roster and realized I missed that Naia got promoted to a Lieutenant, lol. So making her a Commander is both fitting and a likely necessary buff

Anyway, she’s a Commander Veteran Scout now with 2 optionals (Headshot and Press On!). Narratively Sniper would’ve fit more but my players are currently a Blackbeard and a Monarch so… they need the support. I also gave my players an extra downtime action each, so they should have more reserves which should balance things out.

hasty gate
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Hey so a question on the loadout dice?
It says it allows you to reroll an attack check or save. It doesn't specify if it has to be an allied check, an enemy check or your own check?
Is this intentional, ie can i have my very silly controller/support gilgamesh build?
or should it just be reroll your own checks?

image.png
mystic magnet
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it's yours

hasty gate
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oh so i assume RAI is that it's your own checks?

dense temple
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yep

silver hill
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I believe the ways these effects tend to be worded is that you only reroll your own rolls, you allow/force allies/enemies to reroll theirs

smoky silo
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...does this allow you to reroll structure/stress checks

mystic magnet
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I am 100% certain that it is referring to stat checks, like grit or HASE

I'm not at my book right now but I'm pretty sure stress and structure rolls are not considered checks

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Check in lancer implies a target roll of 10

dreamy eagle
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Correct, but it would let you roll the hull or engineering checks for destruction or meltdown

mystic magnet
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Yeah

hasty gate
lime wedge
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Has anyone done a run of OWS's extended deployment yet? If so, what are your thoughts?

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(IDK if this is the right place to ask this or if that's worthy of another thread but figured I'd toss that here)

chrome lagoon
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So to officially clarify:
1). In Lancer, rerolls you make are always inherently assumed to be your own dice only unless it specifically states otherwise. Sisyphus states otherwise, the Exotic template's Chronotorus states otherwise, but if it doesn't say "or force someone else" or "an ally may reroll" etc then it is assumed to be your own stuff
2). Structure/stress checks are not "checks" as Lancer keywords it, so no, you can't reroll those unless (again) it specifically states as much (such as the Empath talent does)

smoky silo
chrome lagoon
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Like Technophile 2 lets you reroll checks, for example

smoky silo
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it's another 'engagement versus engaged' case then

pale otter
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I'd say it's probably still good to specify that it's your rolls and such just to be clear on that front

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cuz while there is precedent, people will be confused and ask anyway. like with burn being mentioned despite it being technically ablative wording

hard pasture
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Any ruling on if the Gilgamesh's Locked and Loaded reroll has that executioner 3 reliable damage tomfoolery?

chrome lagoon
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the trick with executioner and other similar rerolls is that they proc on a miss specifically, while Locked and Loaded functions more akin to the Death's Head Neurolink trait which is a reroll that occurs prior to any sort of hit or miss confirmation

kind holly
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Question on the Gilgamesh. Is there a reason it isn't named after a real military figure like most of the other Harrison frames? Or is it just one of those inconsistencies in the naming convention like the Tortuga or the Enkidu?

meager adder
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I recall Kai mentioning it being on a list of frame names “to be used”, and since we had the “wild man” Enkidu, its “civilized” counterpart was meant to show up at some point.

kind holly
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I see. No hate on it, I love this frame and license. Shot to the top of my HA rankings. I was just confused on that.

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Especially after the art reveal

barren pewter
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I imagine in-universe there's an element of 'All of pre-union earth history is so far ago that what's real and what's fictional is academic at best'

chrome lagoon
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I also don't really view Gilgamesh as being an inconsistency tbh

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he was a warrior king and there's historical evidence to suggest he was actually a real person who was later deified instead of purely a mythological figure

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in that regard he seems just as fitting a choice for a name for an HA mech as Frederick Barbarossa

dense temple
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the community seems to have much more specific standards for "consistency" than the official material does

chrome lagoon
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also the Tortuga isn't really inconsistent with IPS-N naming conventions, if anything that would be the Vlad

kind holly
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I mentioned Tortuga because it’s more of a place than a person.

long arch
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also probably worth noting that any conventions in naming are perceived conventions, not spelt out in the books or anything

kind holly
long arch
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so truly, there are no consistencies, only new rules

chrome lagoon
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I mean it's fair to note that broadly HA mechs are named after conquerors, generals, warrior-statesmen, etc, the conventions are pretty clear

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I just don't think Gilgamesh falls outside of that

long arch
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oh don't get me wrong I'm with you on that, and I do think it's better to try and follow some manner of convention in the names

chrome lagoon
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Enkidu is an outlier in that regard because they're just a wild man figure, they don't really exist in any context outside of "being Gilgamesh's rival/pal" and they're pretty much an entirely self-contained character with no broader connection to leadership or military roles

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgamesh#Historical_king Wikipedia has this to say on Gilgamesh's likely historical roots

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh (, ; Akkadian: 𒀭𒄑𒂆𒈦, romanized: Gilgameš; originally Sumerian: 𒀭𒄑𒉋𒂵𒎌, romanized: Bilgames) was a hero in ancient Mesopotamian mythology and the protagonist of the Epic of Gilgamesh, an epic poem written in Akkadian during the late 2nd millennium BC. He was possibly a historical king of the Sumerian city-state of Uruk, who was posthumou...

barren pewter
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HA developers: "Gilgamesh makes sense. After all, we've got these historical documents saying he fought king arthur and alexander the great!"

smoky silo
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there's a certain poetic irony in the enkidu being the frame it is, given that I'm sure HA likes to deny its existence as much as possible

hexed juniper
meager adder
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RA: "Here I come, Builder of Mechs. Do you have enough frames in stock?"

livid cargo
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If you crit on an attack modified by Walking Armory 3 with a Gilgamesh, would you still be counted as consuming limited charges for the purpose of Loadout Dice?

cold badger
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WA 3 says "you don't expend any charges", so personally I'm leaning towards no. Could be wrong, but at first glance it doesn't look too good.

chrome lagoon
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WA3 crit isn't "spend a charge, then get it refunded"

lost ledge
# chrome lagoon Pretty much

While this makes sense with current RAW, it does sort of create a weird instance where ranking up your talent is arguably a downgrade. This feels pretty off to me given that this is like the premier limited system frame trying to benefit from one of the few limited-related talents. It seems like an unfortunate place to have friction.

chrome lagoon
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It is what it is

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The Demolitionist talent also doesn't really work very well with the Barbarossa's Roller Grenades, Lancer is full of a ton of things some of which have very particular and unique interactions, designing a thing that covers all of them perfectly well is sometimes extremely difficult and sometimes impossible

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If I'm being honest, I don't really see this as being the most massive point of friction anyway. You get a benefit on a crit (you retain your charges and can therefore use them again) or you spend them on a regular hit and tick the loadout die so that's a benefit there, and that's assuming you take the third rank talent which is solely the on-crit effect, so electing not to take it if you want to 100% guarantee maximum charge expenditure doesn't even hamstring your ability to utilize all of Walking Armory's various ammunition types

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I also do not really consider the loadout die to be a crucial and central cornerstone of the Gilgamesh in the same way that something like Full Metal Jacket is for the Raleigh, it is a nice bonus to get for blowing through limited charges but not a thing I feel the frame hinges so strongly upon that this interaction is throwing a wrench into the works

lost ledge
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That makes sense. WA3 is pretty weird too because it sort of... retcons the timeline. You spend the charge on attack, which I presume means you have to declare before you roll. Then you roll and you crit, and its like "oh wait you didnt spend those charges and never did." Its a refund, but not, which is wacky.

Wait actually is this a problem to not treat WA3 as a refund?
Lets say my loadout die is at 5. I attack with walking armory, spending a charge on attack and immediately incrementing the die to 6. Then I roll the attack and miss. I use my loadout reroll on that same attack and score a crit. Then I never spent the charge of WA thanks to WA3... which means I never incremented my loadout die... which means I didnt have a reroll to use to score the crit...?

chrome lagoon
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Let me check what WA says in specifics

chrome lagoon
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It's not "on a miss you can reroll," you have to elect to reroll prior to any confirmation, similar to most rerolls in the game

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The ones that allow you to reroll on a miss specify as such (like Executioner 3) and are much less common

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something like the Death's Head attack reroll is just "you can choose to reroll this die if you feel like it, but you have to take the second result"

lost ledge
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how does that work if I just know my target's evasion?

chrome lagoon
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So yeah if you know the target's evasion you can absolutely use your rerolls with more precision

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Scan owns, go nuts

lost ledge
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Oh I see. This doesn't change my hypothetical with WA. I thought you meant it as a counterpoint my b

chrome lagoon
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Well it was in response to "Then I roll the attack and miss"

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Broadly I get what you mean, but I just want to clarify this because it IS important to note the difference between "I know my attack will miss" and "the attack DID miss"

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one of those procs reliable, for instance

lost ledge
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Okay yeah so lets say instead "I roll the attack and get a 1 on the die so I decide to reroll" Same questions arise.

chrome lagoon
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right

# 
weapon, you may expend charges to apply one
of the following effects to your attack at the
listed cost:```
Okay so WA charges are spent on attack rather than on hit, and then if you crit it says it "doesn't expend charges." This is slightly different than I had originally assumed it was laid out.

Since there has to be some sort of answer for this, I think my answer is probably going to be that no time paradox happens, if you tick the Loadout Die while spending the limited charge(s) and then use that reroll into a crit, you get the charges back. Given the way the timing on this breaks down (with you spending charges in advance of the attack, then only finding out if you don't spend them on the confirmation of a crit), I'm not sure there IS a neat way to square that particular circle. So with that in mind, I think it's probably going to ultimately be more intuitive to have it work that way.
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@livid cargo I think this may be the more concrete answer now that I've sat down and read over Walking Armory to double check things

lost ledge
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So then are crits with walking armory 3 always going to tick your loadout die, or are you only able to get the value during this very specific timing? The former is probably more elegant.

chrome lagoon
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So if you want to assign some sort of order of operations to things, after 1). you have spent a charge (which you have to do to use the talent)

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and spending a charge ticks the loadout die

lost ledge
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I guess what I'm asking now is what if I don't spend the loadout die at that timing?
Do I have to do this:

  1. spend charge
  2. increment loadout die
  3. score crit naturally, refunding charges
  4. decrement loadout die??
chrome lagoon
lost ledge
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okay cool. Gotcha

chrome lagoon
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That's what I mean by "I think my answer is probably going to be that no time paradox happens"

dreamy eagle
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so no matter what, you increment the die

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with WA2 or WA3

chrome lagoon
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Yes, the timing on it is a little weird (I initially answered this while on my way back from work with only the wording on WA3 on hand, now that I'm back at my desk I can see the full thing being laid out...I had it in mind that WA had you spend charges on HIT and not on ATTACK, hence my initial answers to ASquared)

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but as I said, I think that given how the talent as a whole works, this is probably the best solution

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because otherwise you DO get into paradoxical arguments

livid cargo
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This feels like something that’ll get reworded in the core reprint

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Anyhow thank you for the update!

lost ledge
chrome lagoon
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I have no idea if anything's being reworded tbh, so I wouldn't count on it

chrome lagoon
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I'll probably put together a little winter scar faq like I did for solstice rain stuff

livid cargo
chrome lagoon
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tom is a guy who has a zillion things happen in his life on a regular basis

livid cargo
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Of course

chrome lagoon
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It's just one of those things where it's like "ehhhhhhhh maybe it'll happen, maybe it won't"

livid cargo
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Anyhow 1 turn loadout die builds are back on the menu!

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They were already on the menu with Legionnaire but like

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… moreso now

chrome lagoon
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It's definitely a thing you can build around, I'm not sure the Main Rifle Gilgamesh will set the scoreboards on fire but you have my blessing

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7 base heatcap lets you run the Vulture DMR pretty securely

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Vulture + Legionnaire Battle Rifle even gives you range parity

livid cargo
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The plan is Crit Fish with Engineer + Walking Armory, which works for both Crack Shot w/ Legionnaire as a supplement or Centimane w/ Legion Nexus as a supplement.

It’s… admittedly not the best build idea but it’s mine

chrome lagoon
mystic magnet
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It's just a really good base to put whatever build on

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Truly the Armory Everest

smoky silo
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legion nexus atlas standing at the head of an army of The Gang

livid cargo
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I’m a little confused on the map layout for combat 1

The areas circled in black, are those instances of the forest soft cover being inside the ingress zones?

Second, the areas circled in red, are those purple tiles where the cliff face collapses?
Moreover, how exactly does that mechanic work? Are those H1 pieces of terrain completely destroyed upon triggering a rock slide, or are they destroyed segment by segment? Also are they the destroyable cliff faces?

image0.jpg
pallid girder
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The cliff face mechanics are getting removed next version

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also yeah the areas circle in black in the ingress are in a forest

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the purple zones under the cliffs are actually meant to be slopes

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that can help you move up

livid cargo
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Ah gotcha

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I… don’t think that was mentioned anywhere

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Is that entire area that isn’t the beach elevated?

pallid girder
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yeah

livid cargo
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Ohhhhh ok

pallid girder
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its a bit clearer on the square map

livid cargo
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By the way, the water in the deployment zone, does that count as water for the sake of restricting movement or is it just an aesthetic thing?

pallid girder
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aesthetic thing

livid cargo
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Ah gotcha

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Also I’m still confused about the height, is the objective zone at height 1?

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There’s some weird shading in the height 1 and 2 areas so I’m unsure how far they extend

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How tall is the cliff actually? Height 1 or height 2?

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Also is the grassy area at a different height to the cliff?

chrome lagoon
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@livid cargo
1). Ramps DO get mentioned, but it's admittedly fairly brief, they basically just act as normal terrain that costs no extra movement to use, you just move up them as if everything was perfectly flat
2). The cliff is a 3 height difference between the beach. Anything that's on the cliff with size/height mentions are measured from the cliff height as a baseline

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The grassy area is all considered part of the cliff

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there's basically the beach and everything else

livid cargo
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Well there are those intermediary Height 1 and 2 sections

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But yeah I get it

chrome lagoon
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This is something that should read significantly clearer when the illustrations come into play

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The intermediary height sections are, to my understanding, there as sort of a notation to be like "well if someone's movement ends here what height are they at"

pallid girder
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yeah

chrome lagoon
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My art notes to magnus are basically going to be "make these things look like dirt slopes if you have to"

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I will want them to very clearly come across as HEY, RAMPS HERE

unreal moat
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Is Exo Amplification intended to be able to clear stun from a Gilgamesh that receives stunned from it's Structure Damage roll?

mighty elm
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I would assume yes, the stun from structuring isn’t self-inflicted for stuff that cares about that

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ex: you could also have an ally stabilize it off of you

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it also has the line about being able to clear conditions even if you couldn’t normally, even if that weren’t the case

unreal moat
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Gotcha thanks I was wondering whether or not the debuffs from structure / stress counted as self inflicted or not, thanks for the clarification

chrome lagoon
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The conditions Exo-Amp can't clear are the ones that nobody can clear, which are self-inflicted ones

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a Gilgamesh can't clear Slowed from a spun-up Leviathan for example, but it CAN clear the Immobilized and Shredded off a Hornet's Lock/Hold Javelins because those are A). hostile conditions and B). while normally the ONLY way to clear those is to pass the Hull save, Exo-Amp lets you ignore that

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but yeah conditions applied from damage (Impaired, Stunned, etc) are free game to be cleared by "clear conditions" stuff

lime wedge
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Also regarding map 1 and maybe this is me not understanding movement of size 3s around certain types of terrain, is the Goliath supposed to be stuck in the OZ/EDZ or can it shimmy out of it through a gap/climb over the walls?

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It never really became relevant because 3/4 party members were in the OZ turning the NPCs to scrap by the end of round 1, but may be good for future reference

pallid girder
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i've adjusted it

pallid girder
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but I did change around the map to make it a bit easier

static elbow
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could a squad npc benefit from the MBT mobile bunker optional?

chrome lagoon
static elbow
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gotcha

lime wedge
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Discord search is failing me so I apologize if this has been asked before.

Composite Armor from the MBT says that the direction of the facing can be changed when it makes a standard move or boost. Does that direction change happen before a possible Overwatch reaction?

analog silo
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Overwatch happens before the movement and as the facing change is part of the movement it would be reasonable to assume "no"

lime wedge
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That's what I thought. Let's just say that I have concerns about its survivability if that's how that interaction worked and wanted to make sure.

gritty crest
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OW happens during the movement, but before you leave your space (see: Metalmark's invisibility while moving trait). This might fall into "simultaneous effects happen in any order"? i.e. you can choose when the facing changes before, during, or after the move?

analog silo
lime wedge
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I would argue it's still quite easy to flank but that the player would have to do the flanking and attacking bit on their own turn

hasty pollen
gritty crest
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again, unsure about RAI for the MBT here, but the language is close enough to Flash Cloak that I don't think so. But Flash Cloak is designed as an overwatch counter, so it has different design concerns than modeling armor facing.

hasty pollen
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hmm. I think the wording is more similar to Flicker Field than Flash Cloak, which (apparently?) does trigger before overwatch, so I can see the argument

gritty crest
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ah, yeah, that's another good example. It's one of those things that isn't explicitly spelled out, but I think Lancer sort of divides movement into a couple of "phases"

  • I am declaring an intent to move (Flash Cloak, Flickerfield, and other "when you move triggers" are valid from here on out)
  • I am moving (Overwatch triggers)
  • I actually move to a new space
unreal moat
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Checking for a rules confirmation: for the Spear Charges' Loitering Payload mine, because it refers to a hostile character moving more than 1 space while within its area, that means a hostile character that moves into the outer ring of the mine's area can just walk back out without consequence, correct?

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I imagine it's written like this since, for the same reason, it would otherwise be impossible to move next to and disarm the mine without setting it off.

chrome lagoon
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And to be clear, the MBT is not meant to be an unkillable bullet sponge. It's budgeted all things considered as a regular unit, not a massively resilient superboss type thing

lime wedge
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I know the initial question of when the switch happens will be relevant. My concerns are still TBD based on how that playtest shakes out.

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Less about being an unkillable superboss and more about being resilient enough to not get steamrolled by an extended deployment party, really

chrome lagoon
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I mean, I'm not sure a lot of NPCs in Lancer can't be steamrolled

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I would need a lot more hands to count the stories of someone's planned ultra boss battle that ended in "yeah so they got dogpiled, ate shit, and died in like two rounds"

lime wedge
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Like I said, depends on how the playtest shakes out. The timing question WRT overwatch is really what matters at the moment since I know that's happening with the party. Seems like others have made sure I was in the right track on how that works.

chrome lagoon
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Now that I'm done destroying my hard drive with a new word processor installation

For the exact question in its specifics, a couple of notes:
1). The Metalmark's flash cloak, insofar as I understand it, has no "timing window" with which to ever possibly be interrupted in the first place. It's not a choice, it's not an "it becomes," it simply is Invisible when moving, period. Is the Metalmark moving y/n? If y, then it's Invisible.
2). The MBT's facing change is somewhat different from this in that it is an optional, it is a choice that you select to do, that happens to be facilitated by the MBT electing to move or boost
3). That said, as far as I'm aware, Overwatch occurs before the target moves (naturally) but this has nothing to say about any other effects that occur as part of that movement (as to whether it preempts them even if there's a choice component involved)

All of which is to say, based on everything, my take on the matter is that the MBT's rotating facing is much of a muchness with things like Flash Cloak, which is to say that yes the MBT can rotate in such a way that it puts the armored facing in front of an overwatch attack. As this is how other sorts of "when moving, X" abilities work (such as flash cloak, or flicker field, etc) I think that as a default this is probably the most intuitive as well as the most consistent, however if there's any other similar sort of thing in Lancer which I'm currently unfamiliar with then I'm happy to be reminded of it

chrome lagoon
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If you take a step into a loitering payload's area, it doesn't go off. If you take a step into it, then take another step while within it, it goes off.

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Going from a space on the outer periphery to "out of the area of the payload" will not do anything either

unreal moat
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Interesting, (my apologies if I have made any mistakes while setting up this scenario) so I believe that means that the only way to disarm it in the square tile configuration is to approach it from one of the four corners via a diagonal movement. Is this intended or just a quirk of playing on squares instead of hexes? Or have I just misunderstood something? Image of my understanding of the scenario for reference:

image.png
chrome lagoon
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You could also approach it one space at a time over multiple turns, or you could have an ally force-move you, etc

unreal moat
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Oh yeah true in my overthinking this I forgot about that 😅

chrome lagoon
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As far as a quirk of squares go yeah that's a thing that can happen

unreal moat
#

If I have some feedback I'm considering for the Loitering Payload as a GM (unrelated to the above question), is one scenario enough to provide it or should I wait until a full mission is done? Not sure how much experience you like people to have before giving feedback or if I wait too long then the feedback period might be over 😅

dreamy eagle
#

since it's a Limited system, seems proper to let the whole mission go by

#

unless it's a one-shot, which is what it is.

chrome lagoon
#

Yeah I mean I'll take whatever feedback there is to give, with a distinct priority towards "actually played using it," with a note that the context surrounding things will be taken into consideration as well, such as the dynamics of a one-shot versus an extended mission, etc

unreal moat
#

So in this scenario I was the GM, first combat of what will probably be a 4-5 scene mission. The players' goal was to enter a compound and destroy a heavily armored truck containing weapons. At the end of round 5, if the truck wasn't destroyed, the enemy would finish unloading the truck and the players would lose. For this I made the truck and object rather than using the vehicle template.

One of my players brought the Gilgamesh with the Spear Charges and at one point wanted to use the Anti-Armor Rocket to destroy part of the compound's wall to create another entrance for them to pass through (we/they didn't go for this since the effect only allows targeting characters). Later in the mission they also wanted to fire it at the armored truck in order to destroy it (but again it being an object, that didn't happen). They were a bit disappointed about Anti-Armor Rocket not having the option to do these things, though it's probably not my place to speak further on how someone else felt about using it (beyond basically quoting them). They did make great use of the Loitering Payload mode though as a form of area denial on the enemies. For reference, 3 Loitering Payloads were deployed and 3 were recovered via Demolitionist 1 (1 enemy got puppet systems'd into one and died before they could crawl out at a pace of 1 tile per turn, 1 got disarmed, 1 wasn't triggered).

The idea I'd like to proffer would be allowing the Anti-Armor Rocket mode to target objects within Range 10 in order to deal 10AP damage to that object.

If that messes with the design space or anything then no problem but I wanted to throw it out there. I can also provide further context (including the battlemap if that helps) for reference but didn't want to make this any longer than necessary by adding superfluous details.

chrome lagoon
#

So I don't think it inherently messes with the design space, BUT the primary reason I'm reluctant to have it work that way is that "use a grenade to deal terrain/object damage" is basically the unique feature of the Raleigh's Breach/Blast Charges

#

and giving the Anti-Armor Rocket that function while also having longer range on top of everything else strikes me as stepping on that system's toes in a way I'm not a fan of

dreamy eagle
#

You could just let it target terrain/objects without having an actual alt-fire, since presumably the anti-armor shaped charge is less effective than a purpose-built blasting charge.

chrome lagoon
#

yeah and then have to answer "what save does an object roll" 1000000 times a day

#

etc

dreamy eagle
#

Ha, fair.

chrome lagoon
#

grenades in lancer by and large are character-only sorts of things, idk if that was some sort of settled design principle of tom's or it just worked out that way

#

even the havok charge which just sprays napalm everywhere only forces characters to make saves

gritty crest
chrome lagoon
#

oh yeah that too

#

square grid stuff doesn't cleave to any attempt at making circles

lime wedge
unreal moat
hasty pollen
#

correct, yeah - though Bursts get larger if they're originating from larger characters.

unreal moat
ruby rapids
#

MBT's siege mode says "the MBT adds +5 range to its main gun"
so does it only apply to the secondary Main weapons? or is that main in the essense of... primary/principle, and it only applies to it's Heavy weapon

chrome lagoon
#

Each MBT will have one of each

ruby rapids
#

okay, that's what I thought made the most sense

chrome lagoon
#

Siege Mode adds +5 range to the main gun

ruby rapids
#

I do it's a little confusing having the Heavy (uppercase) weapons be called main (lowercase) though

#

especially when there's Main (uppercase) weapons that aren't main (lowercase) weapons

weak vine
#

sounds like a pretty easy language fix to me, e.g. changing 'main' to 'primary' in this case

wintry bane
#

reminds me of the Level (character level), Level (spell level), level (dungeon level), level (floor angle) jokes back in the 3.5 elfgame

stone hound
#

Sorry, if the question has already been asked, but does the Loadout Die from Loacked and Loaded trait from Gilgamesh can be reset to reroll a hostile character's attack ?

cold badger
#

I don't believe so.
Generally things that allow you to reroll ennemies' roll say "may force an ennemy/hostile character to reroll etc..."

#

Or something like it

gritty crest
#

It's been clarified that it's only your rolls. This is consistent with other rerolls in Lancer which default to only applying to your rolls, unless specified otherwise

stone hound
#

Thanks for the answer !

chrome lagoon
#

Yep, just re-confirming that it's your rolls only

# 
reroll any mech skill check or save. You must keep
the new result, even if it’s worse.``` same as the Technophile reroll for instance, "any" means "your own" unless it says you can force someone else to reroll
thin rover
#

Not sure if this has been asked yet, but for the Gilgamesh's utility drone, it says you can deploy multiple drones at once right? but then it says "The utility drone can be redeployed to a new location as a quick action. It cannot be recalled and expires at the end of the scene." Does this mean that I can only move one with a quick action?

livid cargo
#

For combat 2, if your players failed combat 1, which NPCs do you recommend deploying first?

#

My thought process was one of them being one of the elites to start off with a balanced action economy but idk

chrome lagoon
thin rover
#

oof, that is upsetting

chrome lagoon
#

Being able to deploy multiple drones in a single go is already a step up from most drone systems to begin with

chrome lagoon
#

i.e. if you start play with a Berserker and Archer on the field (as per the recommendation) then your first reinforcement deployment may be better served using other units like the Sentinel, Support, Barricade, etc

#

if you start off with some other configuration already deployed (say you opt to begin with a Sentinel and Barricade in play to start establishing control/lockdown) then you can bring in the Berserker during the first reinforcement, etc

#

balancing the action economy is always something the GM may have to apply their own personal touch to based on player count, experience, etc, like some groups may be perfectly fine to face 2x Veteran Berserkers coming out at once, the recommendations in the module aren't meant to be totally set in stone to the point that deviating from them will void your warrantee

livid cargo
chrome lagoon
#

Oh nah it's fine

#

It basically boils down to "probably don't drop both Berserkers at once, bring in units to suit the needs of scene as it's happening"

#

Since enemies enter play two at a time, the choice of which ones to bring in and from where depends on the positioning of the PCs and the immediate tactical needs of the enemy forces. One good approach is to begin by bringing in one of the Berserkers and an Archer (or the Barricade if that’s in use), followed by the Sentinel and a Support, then the Hornet (or Mirage) and the other Berserker. This spaces out the Berserkers so they don’t immediately double up on a PC and gives the Support ample opportunity to direct their HP restoration where it’s needed most. Other NPCs in waiting can be brought in as necessary; if you feel it would be more advantageous to skip over the Hornet or Mirage in favor of an Archer’s longer-range attacks and suppressive fire, then do so. Reinforcements are an important tool not just for adding more enemies to a combat scene, but for adjusting the tempo and flow of combat based on the moment-to-moment circumstances.

chrome lagoon
#

@lost ledge I don't think I'm going to make those changes tbh, because there are infinite limited main guns in lancer for anybody who picks the Walking Armory talent

#

It's not really a case where I feel the need to adjust the gilgamesh's mounts exist based purely on the stub cannons being a thing

lost ledge
#

The way I've been looking at it is that there are very few limited gun options, really. So I saw the potential for a build that was based around going all in on one of them, and realized that the limited system frame didnt have the right mounts to make it happen. And that seemed like a missed opportunity is all.

#

Do you have an estimate as to when the playtest period is closing? I have some pending notes from actual play that I need to get properly written up for you and I don't want to miss the bus

chrome lagoon
#

Not really a specific timeframe to the date but I'll say that art is coming in pretty steadily and proofreading with melody has been done and turned back in for a final pass

#

I would say that the general state of the content is, while still open to changes, in the process of getting locked down

#

so if it's feedback along the lines of "this needs to be rebuilt from the ground up" then that's increasingly unlikely to happen at this juncture

lime wedge
#

I wish I could have gotten this extended deployment test in sooner, but I was thwarted by the true endboss of all TTRPGs. Scheduling.

rustic pewter
#

In going to try out the MBT later in my game. Any suggestions on how much I should value it as an NPC? Ultra? Veteran level? Elite?

dreamy eagle
#

Regular NPC

#

It should, however, basically always be given at least Veteran

chrome lagoon
#

I mean I don't really care to say you HAVE to give it a template, any more than I think a Goliath needs one either if you're not super fussed

#

but yes, it's not valued as some special "this is worth X+Y NPCs" equation

#

if it was I would be explicit about it

#

you can have one per combat mainly for ease of overhead

barren pewter
#

My general read on it is that it's not more powerful, just more complex

#

And thus you kinda want to avoid the poor GM's brain melting

chrome lagoon
#

and because I think that against certain comps, having to navigate through multiple enemies that can have 6 armor against attacks would be pretty rough

#

It isn't even inherently super difficult to kill frankly, shredding it still means you can just smash attacks into its front facing if you're fine dealing with 2 "irreducible armor," there's paracausal mods, there's indirect fire blasts, etc

dreamy eagle
#

Yeah, my experience running template-less MBT is "the fast melee striker shows up and the MBT no longer exists".

inland tree
#

In my experience, it's played best when it has 2+ structure - it doesn't need that, but if you're going to run a complex enemy, you might as well beef it up and give it staying power. It works well as a centerpiece "boss" type enemy and I tend to prefer leaning into that

dreamy eagle
#

Thus why I recommend templates just so it lives long enough to show off the mechanics.

chrome lagoon
#

Which is fair. I didn't want to give it baseline additional stress/structure because I felt that A). it was redundant with templates and B). I felt it would be a bit weirder to balance, it's not on the level of something like a Tempest which is supposed to be like "this is a mega enemy"

inland tree
#

(As an aside, avoid throwing it into an already complicated encounter, especially if the players haven't encountered 50% or more of the opfor's class/template makeup - this is something I mainly ran into as The Guy Who Uses 10 Homebrews At The Same Time, but it can still hold true if you're pitting it against a newer player group unfamiliar with many of the core NPCs. You want the MBT to stand out, not be more noise amongst the pile.)

lime wedge
#

As opposed to what's happened to my party multiple times where they turn something to dust in a single turn and never learn anything about how to handle it.

modest gorge
#

Question (sorry if it’s been asked already): does parallel projectors from kutuzov happen with charging stasis bolt or with the reaction from using the Stasis Bolt system as a reaction?

chrome lagoon
# modest gorge Question (sorry if it’s been asked already): does parallel projectors from kutuz...

1/round, when you take the Stabilize action, Bolster Quick Tech action, or Activate or otherwise use a Shield system during your turn, you may grant an allied character within Sensors a benefit based on the overall cost of that action:

So a few things:
1). Any ability that's listed as X/round is always up to you to decide when it triggers. So if you were to, say, use a Bolster as a free action (by overcharging let's say) you could elect not to use Parallel Projectors then if you wanted to use your normal set of actions to Stabilize and thus gain the full action benefit
2). So Parallel Projectors CAN happen when charging the stasis bolt if you want, or not, as you wish
3). Note that Parallel Projectors only happens when you do this stuff on your own turn, so stuff that happens outside of your turn (which is commonly when reactions are used) can't proc it
4). It's possible to use reactions during your own turn, but a Reaction is not a free action, quick action, or full action, it's its own thing, and thus even if you used the stasis bolt reaction during your own turn there wouldn't really be any Parallel Projector benefit from doing so

silent vine
#

whats the population numbers like on cressidium?

chrome lagoon
#

big ol question mark

#

I have no idea

silent vine
#

fair enough!

chrome lagoon
#

Big enough to have multiple major superpowers

silent vine
#

i've been playing with and exploring like some nhp stuff for the native powers, and trying to figure out how many nhps might be present on the planet pre union contact.

#

enough that vestans have made tarturus with several many.

#

but prooobably not? hundreds? planet wide i would think?

modest gorge
lime wedge
chrome lagoon
lime wedge
#

I'm aware of that. Considering they weren't present in OSR, I was wondering if it was a situation like "they couldn't keep caskets functioning after they pivoted to conventional manufacturing."

chrome lagoon
#

the main thing Cressidium is lacking is half a century of contemporary galaxy-wide research and access to newly discovered/created prime subjectivities, and yeah lacking printers certainly doesn't help, but my understanding is that printers aren't a hard 100% requirement to construct or maintain a casket

lime wedge
#

Good to know! YesYes

chrome lagoon
#

so the Cressidian use of NHPs exists but it isn't the same way that Union uses them where you can have NHP copilots riding shotgun in individual mechs, they're less common and tend to be given broader wide-reaching roles

#

Avel for example is a military logistics NHP, while Greer runs blue-water naval fleet coordination

shrewd stratus
#

Oh huh, the Fusion Torch change is interesting, since Vanguard 2 already ignores cover

chrome lagoon
shrewd stratus
#

Ah right

chrome lagoon
#

and the cover destruction here is permanent

shrewd stratus
#

Missed that

#

True true

chrome lagoon
#

The fusion torch baseline also probably won't destroy soft cover since that's typically not destructable in most cases

#

but between it melting the bulkheads and the vanguard talent, I felt this was warranted as an attempt to even things out

shrewd stratus
#

Gotcha

chrome lagoon
#

As a CQB it isn't tremendously difficult to have uncontested shooting anyway, but that combined with permanent cover destruction in a line 5 is something that's been suggested is easy to push into too much ease of access

#

If you slap Autostabilizing Hardpoints on it then sure you'll still probably hit a lot, you could also be doing that with an HMG

shrewd stratus
#

It's a very cool weapon, the burning slag clouds mechanic in particular is an interesting thing to play around with

silver quiver
#

for Electrohydraulic Claw, is the "this effect does not stack" text supposed to stop you from getting double accuracy from frame traits (Enkidu's brute strength, etc), personalizations, or core bonuses (Gyges frame, etc) towards the same roll?

chrome lagoon
#

The Electrohydraulic Claw isn't unique, merely exotic, so you could equip a pair of them if you wanted to, but doing so doesn't give you +2 accuracy to smash stuff

silver quiver
#

ah okay that makes sense, thanks!

hasty pollen
#

is the amber phantom's bonus damage limited to being used on its turn, or can you take the heat and use it off your turn?

chrome lagoon
hasty pollen
#

okay good to know

chrome lagoon
#

To clarify, what I mean is that you can't take a reaction attack before your turn has come up in a round and declare "I will take 1d6 heat to get bonus damage on this," the Amber Phantom has to act at some point during the round, on a "called turn" or not, and only then can they start making choices about "will I get bonus damage on this attack y/n"

#

The operative trigger for getting bonus damage is "taking a turn"

#

Now the question of "if you take your turn, THEN can you bank your bonus damage for later" becomes "probably I guess"

#

Technically you can do that with the Nelson I believe (boosting, then simply saving your +1d6 bonus damage for some other point during the round) and other bonus damage traits are similarly agnostic in terms of on- or off-turn (like the Mourning Cloak)

#

so I'm not sure if allowing the Amber Phantom do so anything similar will cause an issue

hasty pollen
#

in this case I was wondering about take turn+overwatch/etc

chrome lagoon
#

what you can't do with any bonus damage gaining frame is stack multiple instances of bonus damage to blow all at once

hasty pollen
chrome lagoon
#

Like I said, my understanding is that a Nelson can boost on its turn to trigger Momentum, then save the bonus damage for later (such as overwatch etc) so I think given precedent it's probably going to be easier to say the Amber Phantom works similarly

hasty pollen
#

okay that makes sense, thank you!

verbal garnet
#

Modest request, can the Kutuzovs core passive specify "other than full tech" since that's not intended to give you the full action benefit?

ruby rapids
#

what does the Legion Nexus... look like?
is it just a squad of subalterns following you/hanging off your mech aunic style?
is there some kind of central "weapon" that acts like a hub/factory/maybe even a catapult for the subalterns?

#

I'm just trying to picture it in my head but I'm struggling to think of anything concrete...
it just feels like it should look like... something, cause it's a superheavy mount
and it's not like there's a size 4 squad of little robot dudes following you

versed agate
#

I think narratively its closer to having a squad of robot soldiers

#

that shoot as a squad when you strike someone with the nexus

chrome lagoon
chrome lagoon
#

a nexus, strictly speaking, isn't the "gun" but a control or launch or construction bay for whatever you're seeing the drones as, though some nexus weapons describe what it is as a default even if you choose to reflavor it

verbal garnet
ruby rapids
#

instead of gun there is friends...

chrome lagoon
chrome lagoon
#

like the Ghoul Nexus talks about it being a VTOL cylinder with guns etc

#

the Hive Nexus is very clearly a bunch of nanites, same sort of thing with the Annihilation Nexus

#

in the Legion Nexus' case it's literally "your mech has C&C capability for a bunch of subalterns"

#

an attack with it is you going "hey, shoot that guy"

ruby rapids
chrome lagoon
#

so what that might look like in terms of mech hardware is up to you (a big antenna, an additional head visor, etc) but the actual weaponized drones are, at least as I personally envision it (your own flavor is free to be changed however you like) simply accompanying you on foot

#

the Legion Nexus is a form of integrated combined arms support, essentially

ruby rapids
chrome lagoon
#

Like always, reskinning is totally open to variable interpretations

ruby rapids
#

I dunno why, having the drones be flying just works in my head more than them being androids with guns

#

but yeah, thanks for the help

chrome lagoon
#

The Titanfall Spectre is a big sort of visual inspiration for me for HA combat subalts

Titanfall-SpectreDrone.webp
barren pewter
#

Humanoid but not human, makes sense.

chrome lagoon
#

Combat subalts in general don't look very "human," you can see a bunch of tom's designs on the Wallflower cover and then some in the Kidd art, etc, they tend to have flat-ish heads

#

For HA there's a certain angularity, and also the Specter designs play up the "modern warfare" angle with addictional tactical gear, webbing and pouches, etc

barren pewter
#

Yeah. Maybe if they're SSC made, you might get Ghost In The Shell 'this is a person with some robot lines' but HA are very Tactical.

ruby rapids
hexed juniper
#

kutuzov...

IMG_3168.png
meager adder
frosty rivet
#

I like that the Amber Phantom looks like a Magical Girl haha

livid cargo
kind holly
celest lichen
hybrid finch
unreal moat
#

Gilgamesh's Superthermal Blade is really great - excellent weapon, no notes

#

💯

versed agate
#

i do love cooking

#

hacking mechs so that they cook faster
literally hacking them, with the STB

stable ice
#

God I know I must mot get ahead of myself and make new VSAF sprites I must restrain myself

hard pasture
#

Any ruling on if Gilgamesh gets to both spend a charge and not spend a charge with Walking Armory 3? It seems retroactive, but the order of resolution seems to throw a wrench in.

dreamy eagle
hard pasture
mighty elm
#

if you crit with WA3 then the loadout die does not change

#

you basically wait until you confirm hit vs crit before officially spending the charge and ticking down the die edit: wrong

hard pasture
#

Oh I see. The way it handles a crit from reroll is the exception, not the rule.

chrome lagoon
#

Just to clarify, @dreamy eagle has linked the wrong thing

#

#1174488469079326720 message

# 

Since there has to be some sort of answer for this, I think my answer is probably going to be that no time paradox happens, if you tick the Loadout Die while spending the limited charge(s) and then use that reroll into a crit, you get the charges back. Given the way the timing on this breaks down (with you spending charges in advance of the attack, then only finding out if you don't spend them on the confirmation of a crit), I'm not sure there IS a neat way to square that particular circle. So with that in mind, I think it's probably going to ultimately be more intuitive to have it work that way.```
#

WA does in fact spend charges on the attack, then refunds on confirmation of crit

# 
weapon, you may expend charges to apply one
of the following effects to your attack at the
listed cost:```
```If you perform a critical hit using ammunition from
your AMMO CASE , you don’t expend any charges.```
#

There's two separate timings here, and if you were to treat it as one timing then that would mean, I dunno, people could try to argue dumb shit like "I can use Walking Armory at 0 charges so long as I crit and therefore never have spent the charge" or whatever

dreamy eagle
#

Hm. So does it tick Loadout or not?

chrome lagoon
#

Yes

dreamy eagle
#

Ah, I see.

chrome lagoon
# 
You will not ever de-increment the loadout die unless you spent it

Hadzi — 04/25/2024 9:45 PM
okay cool. Gotcha

Kai Tave, Killswitch Gremlin — 04/25/2024 9:46 PM
That's what I mean by "I think my answer is probably going to be that no time paradox happens"

Ash And Gold — 04/25/2024 9:46 PM
so no matter what, you increment the die
with WA2 or WA3```
#

You yourself were even a part of this discussion

dreamy eagle
#

Pfhah. So I was (last month, admittedly).

chrome lagoon
#

yeah I feel that

#

but to clarify (which I did in rules questions and will reiterate here, and yes this is going to be part of the Winter Scar FAQ I'm putting together), spending charges via Walking Armory will tick the Loadout Die as normal, critting will refund charges as normal, there's no scenario where you will de-increment the die or have to "undo" spending the Loadout Die because of it

#

the timing is
1). Spend WA charge
2). Loadout Die ticks
3). Make an attack roll (you can spend the Loadout Die here)
4). Did you crit? Okay cool, get the stuff back

loud herald
#

Does the utility drone work with drone commander?

mystic magnet
#

why wouldn't it

round gorge
#

Can you use Convergence Point on a Goblin that's Symbiosis'd?

old nimbus
#

I mean, theoretically don't you just want to use it on the Symbiosis target?

chrome lagoon
#

Once a goblin is symbiose'd, they no longer take their own turns, only acting when the person they're latched onto does, so you would need to (as noted) pick the person who the goblin is hitched do, and the goblin would take their actions during the host's turn

chrome lagoon
loud herald
#

Coolio, comp-con doesn't show the three diamonds that normally pop up for when a talent works with a piece of gear.

#

Thank you tho.

chrome lagoon
#

yeah comp/con's intricacies are outside of my department

round gorge
old nimbus
#

Ah!

#

Mood.

cold badger
#

#new-content-resources message
In Task Force Indigo's unit patch, is it reasonable to assume the right-side triangle-shaped symbol is the LSA's ? With the GMS logo on the left, that I imagine represents Union, I don't know what else it could be...

chrome lagoon
#

Yeah, it's some sort of LSA symbol

cold badger
#

Finally, something to go about making flags and medals out of ! Looks interesting, too

#

If I ever get through OWS with an in-person group, you can bet that order of Leander will be a physical thing

molten stump
#

Can i ask where the names of Cressidium and the nations originated from?

chrome lagoon
#

Made'em up

#

there's a vague strain of greek language influence running throughout a lot of the Cressidium names

#

That's not really necessarily indicative of the culture there in that Cressidium isn't meant to be Space Ancient Greece (or even Space Modern Greece), so much as I needed something to hang some names off of and that's what I decided to go with

#

Then sometimes I just made some shit up, I'm pretty sure "Okasnia" isn't a word in any language but it sounds like a nation you'd find in an Ace Combat game which suits my purposes

livid cargo
#

Do y'all have any good VTT token recommendations for the MBT?

#

Also what parts of the map in Combat 3 are considered "disrepaired aircraft"? Is it the dark gray sections?

livid cargo
#

Nevermind all of the above have been resolved

#

However on VTT's, how are y'all marking which side is the armor facing side of the MBT?

chrome lagoon
#

I'm sure there's a fancy way you could have a set of tokens with visibly marked sides and flip through them to represent it rotating, but I think a number marked setup like that is probably simpler

livid cargo
#

Good to know!... I just found out how to rotate tokens on Foundry so that's probably a better way to go but good to know

stone hound
chrome lagoon
#

man I thought it was them but I tried discord searching and couldn't find it

#

thanks for digging up the link

stone hound
#

Discord search is not really great imo.

gritty crest
full spindle
#

Quick question about BOUNDER CompCon - can a player target the floor, ceiling or walls for the rebound effect? Trying to figure out as the text states "Terrain or Object" 🤔

chrome lagoon
#

No, those do not count as those things per tom, the same way you can't use Siege Specialist 1 to shoot at the floor to blow part of it up to hit someone with the damage/knockback effect

#

Now depending on the map, "walls" may include here some sort of outer walled perimeter if you're fighting in an enclosed space, but that's going to be a GM call, broadly speaking when something talks about "a piece of terrain or object" it's going to be referring to things like chunks of cover or notable terrain features and not "the world"

full spindle
#

Understood, thanks so much for the reply and reference! :>

livid cargo
#

IS the Jet Engine in Combat 3 meant to inflict Heat on the user?

chrome lagoon
#

No

livid cargo
#

Good to know. I'd probably specify that in the description the same way the Ammo Crates in Combat 2 were given that clarification, like for the GMS Thermal Lance

static elbow
#

wait does MBT siege mode add arcing to the railgun?

chrome lagoon
#

yeah

jaunty condor
#

MbT composite armour reduces AP, burn and shredded damage on the side of the armour. Let's say you blast it's face with a plasma thrower rolling max damage total 8 en, 6 burn. How does the damage reduction go through

Is it:
Energy damage reduced by 6 to 2 AND burn reduced by 2 to 4 (total damage reduction is 8, reduce ordinary damage by armour AND composite armour interaction with burn)

Energy damage reduced by 4, burn reduced by 2 (total reduction 6. dont reduce by more than total armour, 2 of which the armour applies to is burn)

Energy reduced by 6 burn not reduced (total reduction 6, choose which damage is absorbed by the armour so decide to go all in on the energy)

Additionally. Let's say you're a tokugawa with an AP weapon AND you deal burn bonus damage. How would these damage values apply if you had an AP and burn weapon? Would both the AP and burn get reduced by 2 or would only the AP or Burn get reduced?

hasty pollen
#

question: does the kutuzov's Emergency Blinkfields do anything to allied-applied Shredded (ie; the Balor's core power)? I would assume no since it's not from a hostile source even though it can't be cleared normally.

dreamy eagle
#

You can clear Shredded from the Balor, and then the Core Power immediately re-applies it.

hasty pollen
#

uh. I'm pretty sure you can't, it says it clears from hostile sources.

#

and balor itself says it can't be cleared normally.

dreamy eagle
#

... I mean, if it specifically says hostile sources, then yeah, it can't work on things from allies.

orchid locust
#

Am I the only one not getting the MBT's railgun option loading with the new LCP?

chrome lagoon
chrome lagoon
jaunty condor
#

Huh... ok

chrome lagoon
static elbow
#

How bulky is an MBT, scale of scout to Goliath

chrome lagoon
#

Well, it's a size 2, so somewhere between 1 and 3

static elbow
#

Would it be more helpful to ask how rough an MBT is or is that not a useful question/something that should be asked here. It's occurred to me that the sitrep I have might have too many NPCs that are relatively good at not dying and I wanna check if MBTs are also meant to be good at that

lime wedge
#

The MBT is beefy

#

It was literally the last thing to die in my run and other tests if it.

cold badger
#

It's only as strong as a standard NPC, but it is very much able to take a beating well

lime wedge
#

If you're crafty with how you handle the armor facing, it can tank (heh) a lot of damage.

#

Which lead to one group mostly treating it like a rolling arena hazard and taking out other NPCs until they could work together to flank it

cold badger
#

It's also very vulnerable to forced movement, in a way controller players might be happy to hear

chrome lagoon
#

If the question is "how tough to kill is an MBT" I think the answer I would give is "not tremendously out of line with default NPC assumptions per se," Goliaths get to be a ball of 30 HP, it's not impossible to slap Argus Armor on any ultra, the key takeaway I think is that the MBT will potentially pose more of a challenge to groups that lack the ability to deal with any of the potential weaknesses of it

#

If your party lacks the ability to consistently flank it, if you lack forced movement to rotate its armored facing, then it might be more of a challenge, but even those aren't the only ways you have to deal with it

#

you can drop blast attacks to where they'll trace effect towards its normal sides, even just "I put paracausal mod on this HMG and I'm going to facesmash it to death and not care about interacting with any of its mechanics" are valid approaches

#

I've had people relay MBT fights where their party dropped howitzer and siege cannon pie plates around to its less armored facings and dealt with it that way, and that's fine

static elbow
#

Hoping my players have decent stuff for it, between pinakas and a CPR

chrome lagoon
#

If you have a slow party with only direct fire weapons and no forced movement options then the MBT may be a bit more of a shitkicker

static elbow
#

wait can you force armour facing change w knockback?

chrome lagoon
#

yes, very explicitly so

#

The Stable Body trait outlines this

# 

If a hostile effect would move the MBT 2 or more spaces or knock it Prone (even if the MBT would ignore that effect due to Immunity or movement caused by a smaller character) that character may change which side its armored facing is on after that effect resolves. Characters may also Ram the MBT to change which side its armored facing is on regardless of their Size.```
static elbow
#

hm. my players might not have the tools to do that :(

#

except for ram i guess

chrome lagoon
#

I mean they have pinakas, they have a high single target damage weapon, the absolute worst case scenario it sounds like is they may be dropping pinaka blasts around to its less armored facings and dealing 2d6 - 2 damage at a time that way and occasionally brute-forcing something with the CPR

livid cargo
#

Pinakas also implies the existence of Monarchs and they inherently have a way to punch through all that armor

#

Could be wrong there tho

cold badger
#

yep

#

seeking payload would just ignore all of that

static elbow
livid cargo
#

Nevermind then

river aurora
#

I'll just note that while it would be a blast to make it a trilogy and I love your work, Winter Scar does a pretty good job of wrapping up most of the plot threads on Cressidium that feel in-scale with the OSR/OWS duology. If an idea strikes, of course I'd love to see it happen, but it doesn't feel necessary.

cold badger
#

Story so good it doesn't even need a third part 😔

sharp lagoon
# 
EMERGENCY BLINKFIELDS
Whenever the Kutuzov or any allied character within Sensors takes the Brace reaction, they clear Shredded (or ignore its effects if it can't be cleared normally) from hostile sources, and attacks they Brace against can't inflict Shredded.

I have a question about this trait, specifically the bit about ignoring the effects of Shredded if it cannot be cleared. How long does that effect last? Indefinitely? If somebody applied Shredded again, would you also ignore that?

chrome lagoon
sharp lagoon
#

Ah, alright

chrome lagoon
#

It basically means that if someone braces while under the effect of something like a Hornet's Lock/Hold Javelins, a system which imposes Shredded on someone which can only be cleared by passing a full action hull save normally, that they can still brace and get the benefit of doing so while benefitting from Emergency Blinkfields

#

doing so simply won't automatically remove the javelin on top of it

#

the Gilgamesh's Exo-Amplification, by contrast, will allow you to just remove something like a Lock/Hold Javelin

cold badger
#

Still on Emergency blinkfields, does the "from hostile sources" also apply to the "ignore it's effects" ? Essentially, I'm asking if a CP Balor could ignore shredded that way.
Also, do antilinear time's conditions count as hostile ? Same question for that in any case.

chrome lagoon
#

#1174488469079326720 message Yep

#

If your buddy did it to themselves, Emergency Blinkfields doesn't apply

#

No free Balor braces

cold badger
#

aw man

#

even Antilinear time then, that's sad

silver quiver
#

Would Superthermal Blade's self heat, and the 3 heat for expending a charge outside the danger zone count as two separate instances of heat for things like the Manticore's core power

gritty crest
#

Seems like it would. Heat (self) happens after the attack resolves, spending a charge happens in the middle of the attack

river aurora
#

I would guess yes, but I'm not certain.

short knot
#

the Gilgamesh's core passive restore the HP bar not structure right?

cold badger
#

Same as all other effects restoring hp, yes

chrome lagoon
chrome lagoon
static elbow
#

I'm thinking of slightly rewording text on the MBT in my own games so instead of having a "main gun" it has a "primary weapon" (changing all text and abilities that refer to the main gun accordingly) because I'm thinking that otherwise it might be confusing to players that the main gun is a heavy cannon while the secondary weapon is a main cannon/launcher/nexus/rifle/cqb
Does this make sense or is there a pitfall I'm missing

chrome lagoon
#

if all you're doing is just renaming stuff I have no idea what could be a pitfall

static elbow
#

Making it harder to tell what is going on I guess

chrome lagoon
#

On the whole, I'm not sure there's a lot on the player end that really cares about what "size" of weapon they're being shot at. There's a few NPC things that care (the Veteran trait trio that interacts with weapon sizes) and for the PCs themselves there's a lot of stuff that cares about what weapons they themselves are using, but I I don't think it really matters for players on the receiving end

#

the one interaction I can think of off the top of my head where NPC weapon size matters to PCs is how Predator/Prey Concepts can't be used to force attacks with Superheavy weapons (and the Witch's Predatory Logic can't either on the vice versa)

silver hill
#

Also just Superheavy weapons inherently requiring a full barrage.

#

Though I guess that only matters to PCs for purposes of "can that Demolisher reach me without having to Boost"

chrome lagoon
#

Yeah, good point

#

In general, I don't think there's much that it upsets with regards to the MBT's loadout

silver mauve
#

Am I missing something with the Lycan or would it not just be completely oppressive in its current state? 4d6+6 AP damage +1d6AP is just a ton of damage to deal before any Talents kick in. With Executioner 1, Brutal 1 and Pankrati 1 I don't see much if anything surviving even a single attack. I don't think anything but a tier 3 Goliath could survive a Brutal Nat20 from a LL2 Lycan. I am trying to figure out a weakness to counteract that much damage output and I am not really seeing much if anything. My GM is pretty sure that every combat with a Lycan would come down to rocket tag. Either the enemy completey overmatches the Lycans damage with crazy healthpools and definitely kills the rest of the party or the Lycan oneshots any enemy of a reasonable difficulty for the rest of the party.

#

The E-Defense is solid, it can choose between having high Armor or extreme speed, if the Lycan so chooses they can easily dip into Hacking with the Tech attack bonus... On top of all that the claws have Acccurate and Overkill. The only real chance a GM has is using a Sniper to completely remove the Lycan from the equation by focusing on only that player and well deciding to just end a player because of how much of a problem they are is the stuff that ruins high level Pathfinder 1e for me.

#

If there is something that balances all of these things I would love to hear it cause I just can't see it myself

dreamy eagle
#

pretty much every mech can do that

#

optimized lancer is rocket tag

gritty crest
#

so far, people seem to have found it strong but not oppressive in testing

inland tree
#

The Lycan is high risk, high reward and needs to be in a very risky position to actually get max damage from the claws consistently (as in, one more structure and the Lycan is risking immediate destruction). The Lycan can absolutely pop off and do huge damage, but it doesn't take much for a Lycan gone loud to start eating shit, especially without proper support. Controllers love to ruin its day, and while the Lycan can delete a lot of opponents with a decent roll, it's doing so with a Superheavy, inherently clamping down on its flexibility and ability to clear more than one threat at a time. The Lycan does not need to face some insane homebrew enemy with a ton of health to be countered - the opfor just needs to start focus firing the guy who decided to throw off all their armor, and you don't need someone to do it on one shot.

All of this to say, yeah, the Lycan's gimmick is strong, no doubt about it, but it's never going to be enough on its own and anyone playing that risky to get max damage all the time will very easily pay for it dearly. There's a reason it's an Efficient core - it's not an end all, be-all option.

dreamy eagle
#

the lycan doesn't trigger off of self-structure anymore

chrome lagoon
#

Well, sorta kinda

#

you can get the max effect claws if you activate them at 2 structure or less

#

which is a sub-optimal position to be in, but it's doable

#

it's not something I would recommend, but it's there

#

To get the full power claws, your team needs to have lost an overall 2 structure in some capacity (two allied structure down, your own self at 2 structure or less) or someone needs to have been destroyed

inland tree
#

It still does, just as a sort of fail-safe effect - there's a reason I qualified that statement with "consistently," since it's the only way to be certain you'll qualify for it in a given encounter. It's a bad idea, but it's an option.

(naturally Kai explained all of this before I finished typing lol)

chrome lagoon
#

Beyond that, the lycan's HP is average, its evasion is low, and it has less heat cap and sensor range than the base manticore frame itself

silver mauve
chrome lagoon
#

having a high e-defense is nice, but to be honest, it's not really as important to most frames as evasion or HP

inland tree
#

But also yeah, Ash is right - an optimized Superheavy striker is always going to be deleting guys with little effort, and they'll be doing so without the inherent risks the Lycan brings.

meager adder
#

Most of your enemies aren't going to be Witches.

silver mauve
#

it can easily get 2 accuracy on every single attack it decides to commit to.

chrome lagoon
#

So is this based on actual play experience or not? Because if it's not then I'm not sure that doing a white-room back and forth to convince anyone of anything is going to be helpful

inland tree
#

"Shoot the Lycan instead of its allies" is kind of the inherent answer here - hell, that's a success state for the Lycan, since the primary point of the claws is to disincentive attacking its allies anyway

#

A Lycan that never feels the need to Go Loud in an encounter has likely done its job just fine

silver mauve
#

I feel it just raises the floor for how powerful a mech can be waay too much

meager adder
#

And Going Loud sacrifices your damage resist and armor, so all it takes is a mech that can outrange you piling on the damage.

round gorge
dreamy eagle
#

well, "optimized" is "exe 3 / duelist 3 / completely ignore brutal"

#

but otherwise yes

chrome lagoon
silver mauve
#

My Gm already said the Lycan will be banned on his table

chrome lagoon
#

Okay

inland tree
#

I've ran several games with a Lycan in the party - I don't know what to tell you other than, no, the Lycan has never felt like a completely oppressive presence on the board like you're asserting it is. The risks it takes for that power is simply too great for it to ever be the clear best option

silver mauve
#

unless there is big change in the powerlevel present

chrome lagoon
#

There probably won't be

dreamy eagle
#

many people have banned lycan just like empakaai and orator

#

this is a thing they're allowed to do

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

inland tree
#

Lycan goes Loud without being careful about it, Lycan probably dies - that's how it goes in my experience

meager adder
#

As someone who's played one, can confirm.

gritty crest
#

I don't really see the big deal about shock claws considering, like, tempest charge blade exists and is fine. Or something like nanocarbon which you can even overcharge with.

silver mauve
dreamy eagle
#

damage

silver mauve
#

A sniper will kill whatever it chooses anyway

dreamy eagle
#

point operator at lycan, it explodes

#

apply ronin to lycan, it explodes

inland tree
#

Shoot it in the evasion, which likely isn't great even with Agility investment

dreamy eagle
#

repeat as necessary

meager adder
#

Get a Demolisher next to it, somehow, it won't like that either.

dreamy eagle
dreamy eagle
inland tree
#

You have far more options for hitting 0 armor, base 6 evasion players to death than a Sniper (whose ability to kill is going to be very map-dependent as it is)

silver mauve
#

now I am seeing some actual ways of countering it

gritty crest
#

if the claws are out, Lycan is more fragile than an everest. Getting to choose whether you're strong or tough is great, but like any frame you have to work hard to be both

chrome lagoon
#

I will also say: in general, any melee striker will dislike Slowed and/or Immobilized

gritty crest
#

or difficult terrain, obstructions, flying enemies...

inland tree
#

Like I'm not saying this as a "punish your players for wanting to do strong things," I'm saying this as a "the player is knowingly taking this risk, don't hold back in hitting them in the risk because that is the whole point"

chrome lagoon
#

Even with the special speed boost it gets from Going Loud, Slowed is a pretty unpleasant status to have to negotiate

#

and Immobilized speaks for itself

inland tree
#

If there's a Sniper on the field, that's not even necessarily a "oh they die" thing, that's a "oh there's a Sniper, I gotta play around that now" because anyone who knows what a Sniper does probably isn't going to let that guy pop a Sniper's Mark on them if they can absolutely help it

chrome lagoon
#

Barricades, Hives, Hornets, and probably others I'm not thinking about offhand are NPCs I would consider to have some mean stuff to pull against a Lycan the same way I would recommend those in the case of your typical melee-oriented striker

#

As noted, terrain and obstructions play a factor, as do mobile NPCs like Operators, flying NPCs like Aces, etc

#

And as I stated before: I think 10 e-defense is nice, but by and large hacking specialist NPCs have pretty solid to-hit rates on their end

weak vine
#

yeah idk i dont think the lycan does anything terribly out there
the whole point of contention is that it has a big number attached to a superheavy, which is true i guess, but things can pretty easily have bigger numbers attached to smaller weapons that have way less investment and risk to use

chrome lagoon
#

10 e-def is nice padding against incidental basic hacks the GM may throw out there, but Witches, Hornets, and Mirages are typically making tech attacks at +2/4/6, with floating +1 Accuracy here and there

silver mauve
#

I think my and my GMs main issue is with the early game specifically

chrome lagoon
#

Both Chain and Petrify are at +2/4/6 to hit, and Chain doesn't even have a recharge or anything

silver mauve
#

it can do things at that point that other people will only be able to replicate at around LL6

dreamy eagle
#

not really

#

if anything, early-game is where the lycan got the most playtesting and is the least bullshit

#

lmao

meager adder
#

I had my Everest running around with the Tempest Charge Blade at LL1, still deleting things.

chrome lagoon
#

likewise Illusiory Subroutines on the Mirage is at +2/4/6 with no recharge and can make the Lycan's life pretty miserable

#

I will say that I have seen people continuing to talk about how broken the lycan is by virtue of its early iterations rather than the current one, which is what it is but kind of nonsensical to me

#

"the lycan did a billion damage by repeatedly spamming the claws" which is a thing that is no longer possible to do

weak vine
#

i think lycan does frontload a bit of power, but that mostly comes from the fact it can flex between being a pretty okay defender and a strong, though extremely precarious and flimsy melee striker thats good at springing a strong hit on things initially but not really super out there otherwise

chrome lagoon
#

that said, if the GM wants to ban it at the table, that's up to them

#

I'm not really invested in trying to convince someone they're "wrong about Lancer" or force them to use stuff at the table or whatever

silver mauve
chrome lagoon
meager adder
#

It used to be you could Go Loud and Claws, Skirmish and Claws.

chrome lagoon
#

They got changed to a Superheavy and a clause was added that the initial Go Loud attack counts as a Barrage, so you can't Go Loud and then subsequently barrage with ASURA

#

you can use the claws once per round, like any other superheavy, and that's it

inland tree
#

The only Superheavy builds I can think of that really have to come online around LL4-6 (and thus take notably longer to get really good) are Loading Superheavy builds, since the best reloading tricks are deep into HA licenses that you aren't necessarily already investing in - non-Loading Superheavies don't need that much investment to get plenty out of it, which is why people in here are talking about Tempest Charged Blade and other such things

chrome lagoon
#

because they already HAD a superheavy melee weapon that was doing work

weak vine
#

tempest charged blade isnt as crazy but its damage profile is not particularly far off, it does not require any investment to use, and can still do the "walk up to things and smash them on their turn and thats it" thing every round (read: this has happened in many of my recent games and its hilarious)

chrome lagoon
#

so they essentially already had that capability and felt that losing the armor and resistance was kind of a waste of their time

chrome lagoon
silver mauve
#

"I would be pretty much fine with it if it was either Loading or lost the Effecient" - My GM

chrome lagoon
#

so

silver mauve
#

it has that single thing too much for comfort

chrome lagoon
#

Take that for what it's worth

#

Right now the playtest window is pretty much closing, but also I've never made changes to things based on anecdotal concerns

weak vine
inland tree
#

Yeah, Lycan's big strength is being able to have a back pocket superheavy - doubling up on melee superheavies with it just leads to weirdness like that where the strengths of the claws really stop being so clear. You want to pair with a good ranged option to cover your bases

chrome lagoon
#

I appreciate that their position is valid, but I won't be making those changes

meager adder
#

If you're starting every scene with "I go loud", that's entirely possible for you to do, but it's not really the best way of playing the Lycan, given you're opening yourself up to So Much Damage.

weak vine
#

the only thing shock claws does noticeably better is the accuracy, which it needs to be structured and also lose all of its defendery stuff permanently within a scene to use

inland tree
#

Again, never underestimate the pain of losing the Defender portion of the Defender mech

meager adder
#

:)

It's unpleasant. So, so unpleasant. A GM will pile all their damage on you just to make sure you barely get a chance to use those claws.

#

Now, there was one case where Going Loud early worked, but that was a case where we needed speed to accomplish objectives over damage or defenses... But that still was an edge case.

silver mauve
dreamy eagle
#

then you're doing a defender's job

#

congratulations

dense temple
dreamy eagle
#

as anyone who's played tank in a MMO will tell you, "getting hit instead of your teammates" is the Point

weak vine
#

as i understand it, going loud is meant to be used in cases where you absolutely need a burst of that damage, or when you're in the process of cleaning up and want to do so faster
or, any situation that you're suitably capable of mitigating the risks, which obviously isnt going to happen all the time

#

that and the threat of being able to do it is part of your defendery business, influencing GM decisions accordingly

#

(which for the record, defenders can do some downright evil stuff, even at the same time- ever hear of a heavy gunner tortuga?)

meager adder
#

It's basically taking the Manticore's "I will RUIN you if you try to blow me up" and making it "I will RUIN you if you don't blow me up".

silver mauve
#

It has the same effect as casters have in PF1e to me. they take up too much importance with too little investment. They get rewarded for existing and the rest of the classes got left behind by virtue of not getting updated

dreamy eagle
#

disagree

weak vine
#

there are definitely things in lancer i would point to which better fit this description to me

#

there are several frames that can be Very potent as soon as you get access to them

#

(and there are ways for a GM to handle them, accordingly)

pallid girder
#

Okay, question, has your GM ever actually seen a Lycan in play or is this just banning it off a gut feeling they have about it?

#

There is a difference between "this is an actual problem we have faced" and "we think it might be a problem"

versed agate
mystic magnet
#

I gotta wonder if all the people who ban lycan and empakaai and orator have ever played with an optimized everest or sunzi because man, all the actually broken shit in lancer is in the core books

#

if you're banning stuff for power level and you start with thsoe and not, like, the entire sherman or sunzi licenses, idk, you're probably looking in the wrong spot

stoic oxide
#

Presumably like earlier in the convo, they're banned since in the frames' case, they have a big number SHeavy that looks scary on paper but is Just Fine on the table and in the case of Orator it's most likely for Orator 3 specifically since that can lock down an enemy mech for a turn, even though you'll need to seriously invest in getting 3 Orator Dice after the first time

mystic magnet
#

if you're banning orator because it can lock down a mech for a turn, idk, gorgon and iskander have been doing that wiht nothing but the base book and they do it to multiple people at a time

dreamy eagle
#

no, it's for perma-impaired

#

the consistent complaint about it is "hands out impaired like candy"

#

the empakaai is also typically banned because it "does what the base frame does but universally better"

#

these are not necessarily criticisms I agree with, fwiw

stoic oxide
#

even then it's not only not permanent (the NPC needs to use a Systems check to clear it, but still) and "handing it out like candy" means that the Impaired is passed around a lot

#

Empaakai does grapple better in terms of ability to grapple yes, imo, but BB's whole thing is grappling while still being mobile

#

ngl tho I think I mentioned it to a friend in VC but this server has taught me to value actual play experience over first impressions so much

stoic oxide
chrome lagoon
#

and that remains the same

stoic oxide
#

ah IC

#

that was a misread mb

chrome lagoon
#

the base shock claws deal 3d6+6 damage, then at the first buff point they get Threat 2, and at the second buff point they go up to 4d6+6 damage

#

so to get max claw power, either A). allies within sensors have to take 2+ structure before you Go Loud, B). you have to Go Loud while you yourself are at 2 structure or less, or C). one of your allies has to be destroyed

quiet iris
# silver mauve My Gm already said the Lycan will be banned on his table

As someone who doesn't have a vested interest in the Lycan but who is intimately familiar with how playtesting and adjustments work from the creator end, my suggestion is this: you and your GM should run this at your table, write down your experiences in as much detail as you can, and then post them in a thread as feedback. Ideally do it soon, as the book needs to go to layout before release!

A few people above have been talking around this by asking if these thoughts are based on play experience, but to make it more explicit - a lot of folks have sent in their play experiences, so speculative whiteroom appraisals are unlikely to be helpful by comparison. If you take the time to test it and it turns out you're right, then you have evidence (and most helpfully for us as designers, context!) to back it up. I know a lot of folks are not necessarily interested in playing with stuff they don't vibe with, and that's fine - but without that experience it's hard for feedback like this to be actionable on our end.

chrome lagoon
#

What Kat said is good advice in general, but I want to state before anyone commits to anything: Winter Scar is probably not receiving any adjustments at this time because it's rapidly approaching its publication window. It's been in playtesting since last November, so that's around eight months or so, and things are now in the "waiting on the last pieces of art and layout" stage

silver mauve
kind holly
#

I think there's also the repairs argument to be made

#

when you think about it, this core power at max power requires 4 repair cap to be spent across teammates or to yourself directly.

#

you get a ton of damage, yeah. But when you consider the fact that your evasion is low, you lose your armor, and you're potentially down 2 structure (which means the next structure you take has a chance to just blow you up), that core power damage feels very earned imo.

#

Its possible that when I've been playing I've been playing at a higher than recommended difficulty, but 4 repairs is no small ask in my experience.

versed agate
#

you become a Glass Cannon basically

chrome lagoon
#

I don't think the Lycan becomes that fragile per se, but you're definitely more vulnerable than you were

versed agate
#

not super-glass, if they maxed Hull they probably still have max Hull, but losing energy resistance and 2 armor means that getting bursted down is more dangerous

kind holly
#

also like

#

prob down 2 structure lol

chrome lagoon
#

Well the lycan itself doesn't have to be

#

the ideal plan for Going Loud is not "wait until you're at 2 structure," that clause is essentially a "shit's extra fucked, might as well go down swinging" option

kind holly
#

true

mighty rock
#

Hiya, i got a question. Is the release for Winter Scar a its done when its done, or do why have a date

dense temple
#

no specific date announced

mighty rock
#

Thanks

chrome lagoon
#

If the stars align, that could come together quick, otherwise it's still basically "when it's done"

mighty rock
#

Thats awesome the new mechs are REALLY cool

river aurora
#

I am so unspeakably excited to see it done

wintry bane
#

I think many vibrate with excitement

stable ice
#

im sooo ready to make a bunch of new vsaf sprites

#

but also gotta come up with a nice mission that connects both solstice rain and winter scar

#

got a nice idea that involves seeing where the vestan politicians are as it is still lore-wise that its a coup

stable ice
#

late winter scar spoilers ||hey this is just a curiosity, but do the vsaf forces aboard the typhoon have a different palette or design, or is it all the same?||

lime wedge
#

I reckon they'd all be the same, but maybe the ones with spacer/marine could have extra gubbins on their sprites to reflect their ability to move normally in microgravity

stable ice
#

late winter scar spoilers ||i was wondering if per chance they'd have a more space-colored palette or something||

#

yknow, military divisions and all that

past olive
#

i'll probably point out this line of conversation as being spoilers and should be marked as such

stable ice
#

oopsie

#

sorry, i didnt think x_x

chrome lagoon
# stable ice late winter scar spoilers ||i was wondering if per chance they'd have a more spa...

To address this: ||they probably don't have much in the way of totally different livery because a lot of what went into the TARTARUS project near the end was rushed. It's mentioned in the sidebar for the C-78 Kentauros (the Ultra Cataphract you fight in the final combat) that the original plan for the Typhon involved designing an accompanying line of space-capable mechs to use alongside it, but that those plans were abandoned and they instead opted to retrofit existing models in order to save time. Now you COULD do some cool stuff for a paint scheme, I would say the red and blue would likely still be there in some capacity however||

stable ice
#

oo, yeah, that's kind of why i asked due to that reason, but yeah, i'll probably end up doing something cool with the idea just because i like to challenge myself. thanks!

river aurora
#

You could have some fun with "unofficial" paint modifications. Less a whole new livery and more the kind of overtuned elaboration you see in fascist elite units.

stable ice
#

nodnod, also, excited to finally see winter scar's cover art

ruby rapids
#

hey, has anyone where ran an MBT in Foundry? how do you represent the composite armor facing thing?

dreamy eagle
#

draw a line on the side it's currently facing

chrome lagoon
#

i.e. you say "the armored facing is on 2"

#

if it changes, you inform people "okay now it's on 1" etc

#

instead of having to manually draw lines or rotate tokens

dreamy eagle
#

What I did was group the line with the token in the VTT, then un-group and rotate the line as necessary

#

But 123 is probably easier

chrome lagoon
#

yeah I'm sure there are ways to do it in foundry that are snazzier visually, but I think simply marking the sides and calling them out is the low tech, simple solution for people who want minimal friction

gritty crest
#

does foundry support multi-sided tokens? that might be another option for people looking for a snazzy-complicated solution

lime wedge
#

I made a little sprite off of a retrograde saladin energy shield and rotated it as-needed

#

Wasn't the perfect solution but it got the point across

inland tree
#

Eld and I have used custom Bar Brawl bars in Foundry to mark which side of the MBT is armored by filling and unfilling them as needed - does pretty much exactly what you need it to do, and convenient if you're already using Bar Brawl

wintry bane
#

I just rotated the token I had and claimed the armor was on the facing

weak vine
#

my games usually just involve drawing a line and sussing it out as necessary

cold badger
#

more specifically, it was having a reference on the side of the map showing 1, 2, 3 with the lines drawn, and then using condition trackers that stack to indicate the facing

#

You can also put numbers on trackers on foundry, not just Roll20 (what I used) so that method should still work

stone hound
#

The link shows how you can display the Composite Armor-facing.

hexed juniper
#

it is 0 g cpmbat, everyone is flying

#

an MBT shoots someone with skylight anti-air rifle

#

laser

#

are they effectively immobilised in the air if they fail the safe and they atre not above a sirface to land on?

ruby rapids
#

you can't fall in 0g ever i think

#

same thing as flak launchers

#

so I think nothing happens? or they can't take the fall option

#

those are my two guesses

chrome lagoon
# ruby rapids same thing as flak launchers

I seem to recall asking tom about things like this and zero-g combats a million years ago and his answer was that no, you can't use stuff like that on people who are in a zero-g fight in that way

#

for example if you could flak launcher people in that fashion in zero-g it would function as an immobilize (since it says they can't fly, and in zero-g everyone is flying unless you have boots on some sort of terrain)

#

now, adding zero-g to an environment that HAS "ground" (like the inside of a space station or something) creates the prospect that you could force people to land and if that's the case then maybe you run those things as normal

#

the book doesn't really go into detail on such environments so it's kind of a "decide how it works best" scenario, I think in cases like that it's fine to have flak launchers and the SKYLIGHT work as normal

#

but if you're running some "everyone is in the void of space" type fight, then there's no forced landing or "can't fly" effects that are applicable

ruby rapids
chrome lagoon
#

yeah and in cases like that it's also probably being used in a map where there's ground, in which case there's a direction to force people to land in

#

the crux of the original question way way back in the day was "in space fights, can you use flak launcher as an immobilize dispenser" and tom said "no that sounds like dumb bullshit"

#

so I think it kind of comes down to "is there something that constitutes The Ground or not"

smoky silo
#

if I use charges from the Legionnaire battle rifle to give the attack the on hit knockback and miss, do I get the reliable increase instead?

chrome lagoon
#

to be clear, you CAN choose to mix and match effects if there was some reason you wanted to, idk, have 4 reliable and also Knockback 1 on hit at the same time

#

but it's not freely flexible depending on the outcome of the attack roll

river aurora
#

@chrome lagoon I'm curious. What's your favorite bit of design in the new book?

chrome lagoon
#

I dunno if I have one particular favorite

#

I'm interested to see if people do anything particularly fun with the Marine template, I think something that gives some defender-ish stuff you can apply to any NPC is a bit of a gap that's nice to fill

cold badger
#

I unfortunately feel like captive spike is going to overshadow these options for some people

#

It's just so fun

#

But yeah, for now the biggest thing I've seen done with it is very much striker-oriented and not defender, sadly (deck anchor on a lurker)

chrome lagoon
cold badger
#

True

#

But you've opened my eyes to hex missiles, and I'll never go back

chrome lagoon
#

hex missiles are one of the nastiest optionals in the game bar none

cold badger
#

Devil's cough shotgun

#

I rest my case.

#

(imagine both on the same team sweating)

stone hound
#

I really like Deck Anchors because it makes Puppet Systems or Ferrous Lash less busted.

#

For NPCs who don't have Heavy Frame.

static elbow
jaunty condor
#

People with good durability were being roasted from the inside out... But that could have been chalked down to players not investing in eng enough

chrome lagoon
#

Impale Systems and HEX Missiles means someone's taking 6 heat and getting Jammed at tier 1 off a single turn

stone hound
#

Was Operation Winter Scar already planned as the sequel to Operation Solstice Rain during the writing of OSR ?

chrome lagoon
#

It wasn't a case where tom said "I want you to do a two parter," the initial pitch was always for Solstice Rain on its own

#

However, it and the other modules sold well enough that Tom elected to do another round of them, and since I had notes on what a followup might look like, I decided to do that

stone hound
#

Ok, thanks for the answer ! And good luck for the upcoming release.

hasty gate
#

a veteran hornet with hex missiles can stress... most things in the game

jaunty condor
cold badger
#

Am I correct in assuming the ERM's "(which results in no effect)" clause (of "they also roll one less die on the structure damage check to a minimum of 0") means you don't make a cascade check if you reduce the amount of dice to 0, and therefore don't actually make a structure check ? The rules for cascades mention specifically *making a structure damage check", so everything seems to point to that being correct.

#

I just didn't realize it at first, didn't think about it I guess.

chrome lagoon
cold badger
#

Finally, some NHP support that isn't just more NHPs in a trenchcoat

cold veldt
#

hey hi hello i somehow didnt know the legion nexus existed and im flipping the fuck out

#

its so goddamn cool its a superheavy box of army men and i need ut

#

can someone explain how it works tho

#

im a lil confused

gritty crest
#

I think your lcp might be outdated. The most recent version of the nexus works differently

#

Try the version here #new-content-resources message

cold veldt
#

ok so its looks less cool

#

much less

river aurora
#

It's still pretty cool, but does operate a bit more like a normal weapon mechanically.

#

I quite like it.

chrome lagoon
#

The Legion Nexus got changes during playtesting for a few factors, first and foremost being that it wasn't pulling any weight as an actual weapon, which for a superheavy weapon is a bad spot to be. It's a case where the issue I perceived from feedback was less a raw numbers issue and more a case of "this isn't serving in the role it's built for," so it got reconsolidated back to having the offensive power on the weapon end itself

#

As a weapon, I wanted to experiment with the concept of offensive drones that used to be a part of the Kidd's kit back in the day and see if building it off a superheavy weapon fared better than a system, and it turns out it didn't to my satisfaction

cold veldt
#

note to self dont say shit while you're tired im sorry about that-

#

i really shoulda been more constructive, cuz the design is super cool i think i was just really attached to the fire orders part, ranged damage on summons is somethin ive really been lookin for in official stuff

cold veldt
#

gilgamesh legit cool, i miss fire orders

#

i do feel like its still a bit in the pit of a weapon trying to be a system, or a system trying to have a passive weapon

#

im a lil confused on what is thematically

#

i imagine you have a buncha lil robots in your space, and the superheavy is commanding them to fire

#

you can send off some each time you do as a lil squad that functions as a drone

#

is that right?

analog silo
#

The weapon basically models having a squad of subalterns yeah

lime wedge
#

Being on the receiving end of the recently-released version of the legion nexus, I can also assure you that it slaps pretty hard still

#

My player's mech is a chicken and he flavors it as the chicken laying an egg and the subaltern popping out of it

cold veldt
#

ok thats pretty cool

#

im still coping with the loss of a drone with range

#

it cant even do damage anymore :(

gritty crest
#

it does, you just have to attack with it first. Without loading, it starts comparable to CPR damage. If you get three drones out then 3d6+6 damage is pretty bananas, with accuracy and optionally extra damage from the drone orders

inland tree
#

It's for the best that the drones' individual attack was removed - it just stacked too easily with more drones and didn't play well with the other options, as someone who's tested Legion Nexus several times since even before public playtesting. As it is, they're still plenty flexible and can really muck around with enemies

lime wedge
#

The subalterns are very spicy in the present, yeah. Not oppressive, but definitely solid for an LL3 investment.

inland tree
#

Currently I think it might be my favorite superheavy in the game - not something that fits any given build, but it really shines when it fits

pallid girder
#

Those changes were made for the better after playtesting with it proved too much

chrome lagoon
#

As I compile some stuff into a Winter Scar FAQ which will get posted after it releases, much as I did with Solstice Rain, I've noticed some confusion regarding heat/Danger Zone timing with regards to things like the Amber Phantom's heat gain when getting bonus damage outside of the "called" turn and I figured I would put something down regarding that:

--No. Nuclear Cavalier gives you bonus heat and/or damage on your first attack made while in the Danger Zone on your turn, or if you enter the Danger Zone during your turn it takes place on your next attack. Gaining heat in the course of an attack that was not made while in the Danger Zone will not activate the Nuclear Cavalier bonuses, as the attack was not made while in the Danger Zone and that attack does not count as "your next attack." The heat accrued from using the Amber Phantom's core passive to gain bonus damage this way does not apply until you have hit with an attack and choose to gain the bonus damage. It no more facilitates Nuclear Cavalier on that same attack than the Overkill trait does if it causes your mech to accumulate heat while rolling 1's on damage dice after an attack has been made and hit.```
ruby rapids
#

Or maybe only when shooting out of a drone

chrome lagoon
#

It would also, I think, start to feel a little too similar to the Annihilation Nexus at that point

ruby rapids
#

Would be kind of a better version of ghast nexus though... but its a superheavy so its nkt really comparable

#

Right

chrome lagoon
#

and yes, it would need a substantial range reduction if LoS chaining is on the table

ruby rapids
#

Well, I do think its a thing that makes sense for a nexus to do

chrome lagoon
#

yeah but "makes sense for X" isn't really how I design stuff, as you note the field of nexus weapons, narrow though it is, already has several heavy/superheavy options that live in that space of "remote LoS targeting"

ruby rapids
ruby rapids
#

I do kinda wanna try making something like that now... probably as an integrated so it can afford to be weirder
Barrage to do a handful of weak attacks originating from different drones...

#

I do really like the legion nexus though, frankly I'm glad we're getting any new nexuses at all

shy rock
#

Re-asking here. How does Walking Armory 3 interact with Gilgamesh's Locked and Loaded? Does it mean if I crit, my Loadout Die does not get reduced?

#

Wait I found the clarification.

cold badger
#

Lich won't be the only one with time paradox bs anymore after this comes out !

chrome lagoon
# 
--Walking Armory charges are spent when declaring an attack, and only refunded via Walking Armory 3 if you score a critical hit. This refund will not retroactively undo any ticking down of the Loadout Die, nor will it undo any rerolls you make with the Loadout Die if you happen to tick it down and then spend it for a reroll.``` for posterity
hard pasture
#

Would a Gilgamesh using Exo Amplification while being affected by stasis generator not work/go against intention?

chrome lagoon
#

it's not hostile effects, it's just "all effects," and my immediate read is this would include self-inflicted/self-enabled effects as well

#

For example, I'm pretty sure an ally can't Stabilize the Stunned off of someone who's been Stasis Generator'd because that's an effect

hard pasture
#

Makes sense was just wondering since the anti prevention clause: "This ability can be used even if you would not normally be able to take this action (e.g., if you are STUNNED)." made it a little murky

chrome lagoon
#

otherwise "overcharge stasis generator into Stabilize" would be kind of a crazy combo

hard pasture
#

oh you can use it, but you have immunity to it's effects 🤣

chrome lagoon
#

so the hierarchy of specifics overriding generalities has Stasis Generator on top

hard pasture
#

So would it still not work for a after brace turn then, since brace explicitly says no free actions?

#

Oh nevermind i see

chrome lagoon
# 
if you would not normally be able to take this action
(e.g., if you are Stunned).```

You could use Exo-Amp after bracing, though it wouldn't really do anything to mitigate any of the downsides of Brace because those are specific things that Exo-Amp doesn't clear
#

it would stand you from prone, clear conditions + exposed, give you the overshield, but you're still stuck with no reactions EoNT, only a move or quick action, etc

#

no overcharge

hot torrent
#

I think this has been asked before but I couldn't find it—if Kutuzov overcharges to do a "quick action as a free action", does it count as a quick for the purposes of parallel projectors?

chrome lagoon
# hot torrent I think this has been asked before but I couldn't find it—if Kutuzov overcharges... 
--Essentially this means the overall action cost you spent to use a Shield tagged system or to Stabilize. For example, Stabilize is normally a Full Action, but with the Sherman license's Redundant Systems Upgrade, you can Stabilize as a Quick Action instead. If you do so while piloting a Kutuzov, then the overall action cost of that Stabilize is a Quick Action. Similarly, overcharging to use a Quick Action system with the Shield tag as a Free Action will grant you the benefit of a Free Action expenditure if you choose to have that be your 1/round use of Parallel Projectors.```
hot torrent
#

Thanks!

chrome lagoon
#

When Winter Scar releases, I'll have the general lancer FAQ updated with these answers

#

I did a little Solstice Rain update, so this will be along those lines

stable ice
#

hey kai, could you gimme an opinion of yours? i'm trying to make a choice on what type of extra mission i should go for. should i:

  • mission bridging solstice rain and winter scar, where my players go for a behind enemy lines mission to figure out what happened to the ||vestan diplomats, which at the end can be revealed as being killed to pretty much confirm this is a coup||
    or (spoilers for winter scar)
  • ||extra mission after the launch of the ship, not sure on what to do yet, but probably a mission about finding out the weakspot plans, or just about a missing involving pulling out the required materials for the mission and stuff||

just curious on what ya think is coolest considering you're the creator (also because im an undecisive bastard)

chrome lagoon
#

I think the former sounds like it could make for a pretty solid transition between the two

stable ice
#

thanks, that helps a lot

lime wedge
#

Given the ||time skip during the downtime||, slipping a mission in there for the extended deployment seems like a solid idea.

stable ice
#

||i think of it, like, yeah i'd want the typhoon to have more time in the campaign because of how important it is, but i'm not sure how to really incorporate it, honestly, the ship itself gives the vestans so much power so i am struggling to think how to make the players have a part in getting the plans||

cold badger
#

||An offshoot following the rescuing of the scientists during the assault on the complex could be an option, but that's something else.||

#

||A good way to show it's power in an in-between mission could be putting it on an unbelievable time crunch, 'cause there's a planet-scale sword of Damocles hanging above the feasibility of your mission. Cutting sitrep durations short (only a bit, still need to have a chance at success), or even a special mission where the PCs won't have time to rest between encounters (as long as you warn them in advance ti should be fine, as per the instructions in the core book).||

stable ice
#

||a rapid-fire blitz mission sounds cool to help sell its power, but damn if it doesnt feel like it doesnt help still sell the presence of the ship. like, gameplay wise trying to put in this sort of stuff feels like a bit of a limit because this mission would just end up being non-stop mech combat with less chances of character development roleplay. i was more thinking of a mission that gives a bit of a brief moment inbetween dates to sell how dire the situation is for being trapped and outmatched by the typhoon? if that makes sense||

cold badger
#

||If you're willing to use some homebrew, Enhanced Combat's "tireless bombardment" bonus objective could work, if you made the artillery emplacement not actually on the map : more of an environnamental effect than a true objective to complete. Otherwise/additionnaly giving NPCs plenty of orbital strike options could work too.
While we're talking about EC, the inflitration sitrep could also be quite appropriate to avoid getting the Typhoon's attention in the first place.||

cold badger
#

||Once again, EC could grant you a train heist, but anything could work well too||

#

||I also don't understand what you mean by "inbetween dates", so that would probably help me give you some ideas||

stable ice
#

||i mean the date between the end of mission 3 and start of mission 4||

#

||typhoon deployment / typhoon destroyal mission||

#

||those are good ideas with EC, especialy train heist, i may go with that!||

#

||i was wanting to make a choice between either mission, so my players end at lvl 5 at the end of winter scar, but maybe i'll just have both missions custom because it's just kinda kewl and idon't expect this saga to continue after winter scar||

cold badger
# stable ice ||those are good ideas with EC, especialy train heist, i may go with that!||

||Infiltration to set up an abush/remove protections , then train heist, and after an extraction/breach and clear under the "tireless bombardment environmental effect" I described above as you run away from the Typhoon's longest-distance wrath seems like an interesting base to start making something yeah ! (maybe sprinkle in some nexus defense elements to the train heist on an infiltration success, or add the bombardment effect early on a fail from drawing attention too soon. You could also cut off their rest between the last two if they fail something/somethings, but you'd have to warn them before the mission it could happen)||

cold badger
lime wedge
#

I broke the tier threshold on the standard goon/not-templated NPCs in OWS Mission 2 for an extended deployment party and the party literally didn't notice except for the double-attack type NPCs

#

As always, adjust spice to party tastes

cold badger
#

As in, no-template NPCs were tier 2 and templated ones were tier 1 ?

stable ice
#

hmm, yeah, thinking on the tiers

cold badger
#

as Isa said, adjust to your players when the time comes, but if what I understood is correct that could be a good way to do it yeah

lime wedge
#

Also, sample size of one here, but it seemed like my party rumbled OWS 1 after doing extended deployment between OSR 2 and OWS 1. My primary guess as to why is core bonuses and third tier talents giving them a healthy power level bump. Doubly so because OWS 2 went back to mostly feeling in line with OSR in terms of difficulty.

#

My next party is going to have the extended deployment happen between OWS missions and I'm curious to see how OWS 1 plays with them at LL2 this go-round.

cold badger
#

I did OWS 1 at LL4, and it lead to a NPC nerf, so I guess it just depends on the players

#

I'm the reason the tonk needs to boost to do damage running into people

#

and also, shredding through encounters ain't always a bad thing (||especially for OWS 1, since the end is a loss anyways||)

wintry bane
# stable ice ||i was wanting to make a choice between either mission, so my players end at lv...

I just read this as I just woke up, so here's my thought.

||Different kinds of stireps. Like saving trapped civilians after a bombardment. No enemies to fight but a tight time crunch on pulling people from the rubble of a bombed city. A mad dash through a gate the enemy holds before they can call rounds down from the ship. Trying to find a stealth generator to help hide their mechs when powered down.||

chrome lagoon
wintry bane
#

Honestly, Winter Scar just reads to me like a james bond style cinematic adventure. And I love it for that.

chrome lagoon
#

Tom and I discussed the mid-act pivot and he said some people might not enjoy how that resolves and/or find it deprotagonizing, but surprisingly so far I haven't really had any feedback in that regard

#

(he was totally fine with it himself, to be clear)

lime wedge
#

Its got that classic 2 act structure to it. justright

wintry bane
#

There's just something cinematically cool about "Villains have a super weapon, so the heroes need to hide and figure out how to infiltrate to take it out from the inside" might be a trope but it's a fun trope

cold badger
lime wedge
#

It also makes a super solid cap for OSR since it pays off threads that are set up there, has a solid reversal of fortune to bring tension to the combined narrative, and ends with a classic sci-fi flourish.

cold badger
#

Also, kinda linked to what I just said, that "mid-act pivot" helps sell the "these people are very much a serious threat". If it didn't happen and the players always succeeded across both modules, the Vestans could eventually seem like a joke, at least on the battlefield, being constantly thwarted by such a small group of pilots...

chrome lagoon
#

yeah that's a big part of it

stable ice
#

thank y'all on the feedback, i'm just kinda been stuck thinking on having 2 extra missions rather than just 1 due to balancing concerns with tier for the final mission

merry fable
#

So I couldn't find an answer and am not sure if this is the right place, but i figure I'd ask here; when doing hte MBT's composite armor on a vtt, if you're using hexes, what are some strategies for showing the MBT's armor facing?

cold badger
#

#1201239090859876392 message

#

I did that during the game in like 2 minutes

merry fable
#

ty

cold badger
#

and it worked !

lime wedge
#

I took the outer half of a saladin shield from retrograde, sliced it into thirds, and made sprites for each position

marble elk
#

Unsure if it's be asked before but how does the loadout dice on the Gilgamesh interact with demolitionist 1? You expend the charge and tick the dice down but if the mine doesn't detonate you get the charge back, does the dice stay ticked down?

gritty crest
#

there's nothing in Locked and Loaded that says you tick the die up when you regain charges, so just like WA3 it looks like demo1 lets you tick down for cheap. (but also the most abusive case here is that you spent a quick action to get one fifth of a reroll, which doesn't seem terrible)

chrome lagoon
#

yeah it's the same thing as walking armory

marble cove
#

apologies if this has already been answered, searching threads is funky

for the Legionnaire Battle Rifle, can I choose to expend Limited charges after I see if I hit or not?

past olive
#

spending charges is "on attack" so i assume no

#

especially since it clarifies the knockback/push only resolves on a hit

marble cove
#

feels bad to effectively gamble on missing if you apply reliable, or gamble on hitting to apply knockback

#

it'd be a bit of a consolation if you spend the charges and then you either get the reliable if you miss or the knockback if you hit

versed agate
#

this is an efficient Mirage/Scout/Specter deleter so i thinnk the Limited on attack for 2/4/6 Reliable is good

gritty crest
#

AIUI making the attack happens during "on attack", so you can order those triggers before or after making the attack. (E.g. don't give your targets soft cover with daisy cutter until after you shoot)
But you don't get to go backwards: after you resolve a miss it's too late to add Reliable, after you resolve a hit is too late to add Knockback.

chrome lagoon
# 
weapon, you may expend charges to apply one
of the following effects to your attack at the
listed cost:```
#

nobody ever says walking armory feels bad

chrome lagoon
#

but the tl;dr is yes, you have to spend charges when making the attack, before you see if you hit or not

#

is your target in serious cover and you have difficulty to hit? are they invisible? that's probably a sign from god saying "reliable would be good here"

merry fable
#

also, reliable isn't just for misses

#

it also floors your damage

#

on hit too

chrome lagoon
#

The broader point is that "spend ammo before you see if you hit or not to gain additional effects" is how the other big "spend ammo to gain additional effects" ability works in lancer, you don't get to wait until you see if you hit with walking armory to go "hmm I'll apply knockback here"

merry fable
#

i do also agree though, that when you shoot at a target, you are generally aware of a lot of the conditions that'll make it harder to hit

#

and then its a shoe in to trigger your big reliable stax

#

rather than just at whatever

#

"homeboy is invisible? Yeah I think I'll reliable this up"

silver quiver
#

plus on gilg you get loadout die mark downs so even if the various limited buffs whiff you still get something out of it

#

actually that brings up a question, since you spend the charges before rolling, could you tick down the loadout die and then use it to re-roll the attack if it misses and that puts your die to 1?

chrome lagoon
#

The timing on ticking down the die is "when charges are spent"

#

so
1). if that pushes the loadout die to "spend to reroll status" then yes you can spend it
2). nothing can retroactively untick it

#

you can 100% blow through charges to speedrun a reroll if you feel so inclined, or burn walking armory charges, etc

#

the battle rifle has similar charge spend timing to walking armory, so either one is valid to use for that sort of trick

silver quiver
#

very fun interaction, ty

hexed juniper
#

can a marine mbt impale someone with the spike or no?

chrome lagoon
#

it doesn't have the specific "can't grapple" clause of the corebook Vehicle template, it can't make melee attacks other than Ram, but Captive Spike isn't an attack

hexed juniper
#

wild

#

thank you

cold badger
#

Get 'em Mad Max style

hardy prairie
#

Has anyone tried ignoring the MBT's "one per combat" restriction and throwing two or more at PCs? If so, how did that go?

dreamy eagle
#

Completely fine.

#

You just have to keep track of its facing more often.

hardy prairie
#

It seemed like it would be fine to me, but I wanted to sanity check it to see if I was missing anything

#

my players are

#

in for some fun

#

next combat or two

dreamy eagle
#

I put two Elite MBTs in with some Veteran Vehicles of various types and then Grunt Vehicle RPV Mirage + Priest

#

proper tanks, lighter vehicles and SPGs, and then support drones

chrome lagoon
#

MBTs being multi-deployable is PROBABLY fine but beyond the overhead I also feel like there could be instances where against some comps the 6 armor gets to be a bit oppressive, it's a thing you could say about any NPC, but I decided to err on the side of caution

#

as a rule you break, I don't think it should necessarily cause intractable problems, I'd just be aware of those potential issues

hardy prairie
#

yeah I think its probably especially fine with my particular group

#

which has a Tempest Charged Blade, a Monarch with irreducible missile, and someone with Fabi on hand.

#

also an MBT question: if they prepare an action to smoke screen and then use it on the PCs turn, they don't get the boost (because free action, only on their own turn), correct?

chrome lagoon
#

yeah free actions are on your turn only

#

so prepping an action which follows one thing up with a free action won't allow it to proc

#

same as if a PC with Titanomachy Mesh used prepare for an off-turn ram, you can't get the follow up free action ram

versed agate
#

double Ultra MBT bossfight sounds dope

hexed juniper
#

one ground mbt, one plane mbt

chrome lagoon
#

Maria did a Gunship NPC which is in a similar vein to the MBT being a big vehicle setpiece unit with a lot of optionals, and I generally tend to think her work is pretty good, so it may be worth checking out if you want to do that

#

trivia fact, at one point I strongly considered having a fight in Winter Scar pitting the PCs against a Ship of some sort representing a Vestan helicopter gunship

#

I decided that one big vehicle fight per module was probably enough, so I stuck with the MBT instead

dreamy eagle
#

the indomitable unionite spirit
vs.
eight AGM-114K Hellfire missiles

chrome lagoon
#

Ship Ace is kind of redundant but you do get a lot of missile

dreamy eagle
#

Ship Bombard is a personal favorite

chrome lagoon
#

lmao fuck yeah okay that's probably fun

pallid girder
cold badger
pallid girder
#

The MBT fight

#

Not in OSR but in Winter Scar

#

He's just saying having more than one would be too much

cold badger
#

hmm

#

so you're saying I could put a Gunship fight at the end of OSR then ?

#

one per module leaves enough space for some retro-fitting...

lime wedge
#

Vehicle rainmaker that's called rainmaker because it rains missiles at people

#

(probably also why it's called rainmaker already (also don't actually do this (unless???)))

hardy prairie
#

just put the MBT and Gunship in the same fight

#

I'll see how that goes in like
three weeks

chrome lagoon
# cold badger Wait what was OSR's big vehicle fight ?

for solstice rain, but I had two plans initially: one was a helicopter battle that would be during mission one, then there was (slight spoilers) ||some rumination that during combat 4, Special Delivery, an exoatmospheric gunship would be present during the fight that would blast through the viewpanels, similar to a setpiece from Dead Space 2||

wintry bane
#

So, I think, with all this talk of gunships, and because I'm running solstice rain right now for complete newbies and they indicated they would be fine with "optional extra sitreps/combats for things like bonus reserves" I'm going to add Maria's gunship with some support pinning down Omari and some marines.

Though, I'm still super excited for winter scar (and all the tank sprites folks will most likely create or kitbash).

hexed juniper
chrome lagoon
#

I believe it would be in the Crisis Core Catalogue I thiiiiink

#

one sec

versed agate
#

oh theres new stuff

silver quiver
#

figured i'd ask before combing the lcp, is there any balance changes between the latest playtest and the release vers of OWS?

chrome lagoon
#

Not since the last set of notes, no

silver quiver
#

gotcha, ty for confirming

stone hound
#

GG for the release !

hasty gate
#

Is the lycan's "on attack , deal 1d6 to someone in range 3" halved by executioner?

chrome lagoon
#

Yes

hasty gate
#

Thank you!

chrome lagoon
#

As a note, winter scar questions should now be folded into the faq

hasty pollen
#

I can't find it by searching and I swear it was answered, but:

  • can Possibility Mapping's bonus damage be dealt off your turn entirely(ie; as a reaction on an enemy's turn)?
  • if yes, does it matter when you took your turn during the round(ie; 'correct' turn = no heat as a reaction) or not?
#

I'm guessing no but I've gotta check

chrome lagoon
#

So if you want the bonus damage sans heat, you do have to take your turn during the turn you called it