#Shadow of the Wolf Questions

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quartz blaze
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It's also possible I have an updated wording, or an outdated wording!

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And maybe it reads different now

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But this version seems clear

civic thorn
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Yeah, I thought as much but the ones discussing weren't so easily convinced. No matter either way, I guess.

earnest oak
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I'd need to check, but I'm 90% sure this question was asked already and got the same response from Kat

quartz blaze
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I have a drone heavy Hecatoncheires and... that's a lot of potential heat spread throughout enemies with just a quick action. Would seem busted if I could give enemies 8 heat just like that

civic thorn
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*burn, not heat

visual vault
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it's - yeah

civic thorn
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(it's worse)

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(for them)

quartz blaze
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oh shit

visual vault
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well, nah, heat is actually harder to get access to

quartz blaze
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yeeaaa burn is...

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pretty bad

quartz blaze
visual vault
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some enemies are immune to burn, after all - and huge heat in an AoE is asking to spread the Exposed love

quartz blaze
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All frames can, at a minimum, provide 2, up to 4 heat a turn if we need

visual vault
# quartz blaze I mean, is it though?

Yeah - Nukecav 1-2 with the Superthermal Blade from Gilgamesh 1 skirmish, then hit them with a high heat Invade of some kind, consuming Lock On from Held Image for Hacker

earnest oak
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The only AOE heat things are Vents and Ghengis

visual vault
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That's a deterministic Exposed on most of the roster

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And that's a hell of a lot more than 4 damage

civic thorn
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There's arguments for either way I think. Burn is AP stacking damage, targeting HP (which everyone else on the team is targeting). Heat is much rarer to inflict but can be some nasty side effects up to and including doubling normal damage (exposed).

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Besides the point though.

rare flume
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With a single extra quick action you can use horos 3 Osiris 1st gate and viral logic suite to make most enemies take about 14 heat with nothing else involved, but if you wanted a less complicated path, your classic Osiris and viral logic nets you a solid ten on most, before adding any extra things,

rough whale
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Quick Q about the heca

The Hecatoncheires can always HIDE in an area of soft cover, regardless of ENGAGEMENT or enemy
traits and systems.

Mostly emphasising on systems and traits of NPCs here for hiding. Which of the NPC traits apply (sorry if this has been asked before)

Systems/traits that you cannot hide whilst in the area of, for example lesser sight and regular sight (I assume this is a prime example it works on)

Systems that prevent hiding AND reveal hidden foes, for example bombard flare drone

Systems that ignore hidden, example scouts sight trait

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Ah this has been asked before... Sorry I blame the fact they removed searching on mobile in forums...

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Don't need to answer if wordings going to get clarified

visual vault
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here

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and here

rough whale
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Thanks

gloomy vortex
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Nothing prevents the Hecaton from creating a Razor Swarm, using something to pull a mech or multiple mechs into the swarm, and then immediately using Enrage Swarm, is that right?

visual vault
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Correct

stray grove
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that would be 6 Burn because of the initial 2 burn from Razor swarm contact no?
and another 2 when they start their turn in it

visual vault
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razor swarm only ticks 1/round

gloomy vortex
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I figured it would be 6, but I think the "or" wording means the 2 damage happens either if they move into it or they start their turn in it, but not both in the same round.

visual vault
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yes, they would not take two burn twice

civic thorn
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That's correct. A given character only takes damage from effects like that 1/round however they wind up being affected by it.

stray grove
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ah true

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so just 6

gloomy vortex
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If you had a cool Sunzi or Iskander with blink charges or gravity gun, you might get them to hold a quick action to put a shot in the center of the next swarm you make, then immediately Enrage if you're satisfied enough NPCs were pulled into it.

visual vault
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consider:

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blackbeard core power

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šŸ™‚

civic thorn
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Open Door Iskander w/ Gravity Gun time

gloomy vortex
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Does the Taraxacum not take any heat from the Roc flight system if it isn't carrying anything?

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Or does it take 1?

civic thorn
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It always takes 1 minimum because the formula is:
IF FLYING -> HEAT = 1 + X
X can be zero if you're not carrying anything.

gloomy vortex
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Not bad at all.

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I don't know how the buildcrafting has developed, but it looks like to me the Tagetes with the HHS-155 Cannibal or the Hammer U-RPL would be devastating if you're willing to slap down Siege Stabilizers and Stable, Steady and hold a position with Heavy Gunner.

visual vault
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cannibal doesn't function effectively in practice - range is too short

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Hammer U-RPL works exactly as it does for the Viceroy, in that it's just a glorified stat-stick with Big Damage that heavily benefits from extra accuracy

gloomy vortex
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Hm, what's Fusiller meant to look like in practice? Or, what was the intention in designing it that way?

visual vault
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can't answer that one, so that's a question to wait for Kat to swing around

gloomy vortex
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Sho. It feels like a way to give things access to Crack Shot to possibly make them more accurate. Unless it's purely to synergize with Long Scope.

visual vault
# visual vault cannibal doesn't function effectively in practice - range is too short

as an addendum to this: you really don't want to use siege stabs because it's a waste of threat 3, and more broadly, because the space between "range 8" and "can't shoot within range 5" is tiny in practice

theoretically a cannibal tagetes could work if you then also take a whole bunch of SSC licenses and get neurolink targeting and monarch's stabilizer mod, but that's a meme build at LL9 (since you also need three horus licenses for held image)

gloomy vortex
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It seems much better if you can get the kind of lock-on spotter the frame seems to want that'll get your Cannibal up to range 13.

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(Since it clearly wants to be right next to an ally cough with the spotter talent cough)

visual vault
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yeah, at ll9 you have autostab, stabilizer mod, neurolink targeting, and held image to get up to +1 net accuracy CS2 cannibal shots at range 16

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naturally you don't have sensors 16 so that's kind of a moot point (which is the other issue with that sort of thing)

rapid crystal
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clearly you should use metahook or have an ally use it, in that case wellyousee

gloomy vortex
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Yeah. The +5 range with rifles is good, but it can't really supply its own juice to make it good.

rapid crystal
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but yeah i wouldnt really say cannibal is a good fit if you're lookin' to extend the fuck out of its range more than a lil bit

visual vault
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yeah, tempeste scope has consistently came off as "this is 'useful' if you're using a base-range-3 weapon at LL6"

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which is... DSAS

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tort 1/3 horus licenses of choice/sherman 2

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there are many things to do with the tagetes because of fusiller, a few of which I've playtested, but not exactly many with tempeste

gloomy vortex
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It's fine if you're willing to lock-on->skirmish with the Cannibal, probably with autostabs, occasionally using redundant systems to keep it reloaded.

rapid crystal
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i get the feeling that the primary intention of the scope is to be used alongside some form of spotting support, more than anything
which seems fair to me, difficult to capitalize off of by yourself, but anyone else can lock on for you (and its not terribly difficult in my experience for a high-sensors ally to find the opportunity for that, in my experience)

visual vault
gloomy vortex
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That's the best use-case I can think of if you want it to be self-sufficient. It's not a bad turn cycle for blasting a threat away, and you always have your other 2 mounts if you need quantity over quality.

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Actually, you know what?

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Take a blast weapon, and consume the lock-on for a single target in the blast to hit a bunch of people from further away.

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If you use Pinaka Missiles, as long as you catch just 1 person with lock-on in a blast, they can both go out to range 25, putting you solidly out of range of snipers and rainmakers.

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With autostab and crackshot, you get +2 accuracy as well.

rare flume
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yeah, generally, crack shot or ordnance on a weapon like the cannibal is highly restrictive,

gloomy vortex
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Pinaka missiles seem like a huge contender for me, since the range bonus effects both blast zones unlike Sharanga missiles, and puts you firmly into counter-artillery territory between outranging and accuracy stacking.

civic thorn
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I think I drafted a pinaka tagetes in the past because I thought crack shot missiles was funny.

gloomy vortex
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I agree.

civic thorn
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Found it. It's a fairly straightforward Asura thing because of course.

[ LICENSES ]
  SSC Monarch 3, HA Sherman 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Superior by Design, Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints
[ TALENTS ]
  Crack Shot 3, Nuclear Cavalier 3, Technophile 3
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:21 ARMOR:1
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:14 REPAIR:6
  TECH ATK:-1 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:3 EVA:7 EDEF:8 SENSE:8 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  Integrated: Fuel Rod Gun
  FLEX MOUNT: SOL-Pattern Laser Rifle
  MAIN MOUNT: SUPERHEAVY WEAPON BRACING
  HEAVY MOUNT: Pinaka Missiles // Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Enlightenment-Class NHP, TLALOC-Class NHP, Redundant Systems Upgrade x3, Armament Redundancy, Personalizations```
gloomy vortex
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And they don't have ordnance, so if you make it an overcharge build, you can always lock on to something, reposition (or use crack shot first), then hit that thing while it's closeish and also something extremely far away.

rare flume
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is there a point to locking on in that scenario beyond the accuracy if you arent using crack shot? The tag only has 8 sensors so, save for the FRG, those guns all have range to hit anything you could have locked on to

gloomy vortex
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@rare flumeThe second blast 1 location you pick is also treated as range 25, as they're both part of the same attack action. So one goes into the guy in front of you, but the other blast goes out to crown a sniper or a rainmaker or something much, much further away.

rare flume
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don't @ me to respond to a message i typed just 2 minutes ago, please.

gloomy vortex
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If you really went in on this content and paired a Tagetes with a Taraxacum, you could swiftly move into the range 10-12 weapons by using its sensor range. Turning the Andromeda into an actual rifle would mean the Tagetes could sit 17 away from an enemy, the support Teraxum, within 15 of that same enemy, gives the Tagetes Brass Ignorant, and throws up a drone or a shield from the front. Then on Tagetes' turn, they throw out lock-on from Tera's sensor range, then hit the target with the Andromeda from the full 17 range afforded by the combo.

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And the unhindered Tera carries around the immobilized, crackshotting Tag to reposition them when necessary.

delicate bramble
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Wait, I thought Mule Harness didn't like Immobilized riders, and they just 'fall off'?

civic thorn
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That's correct

gloomy vortex
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They can still drag. I don't know if you can drag a character into the air, though.

civic thorn
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You cannot force move a character in a direction they can't normally move, so no dragging non-fliers into the air.

gloomy vortex
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Ah, well.

rough whale
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You can drag them across the floor... But tbh you don't need to be flying for that

delicate bramble
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Hey, for the Taraxacum's "Relay Coupling" - Does the Emperor System "ĀYAH OF THE SYZYGY" count as a tech action, for using hte Tarax's extended Sensor Range?

storm trout
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No

delicate bramble
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Drat, the idea of bouncing a Syzygy half across the map sounded cool. Thanks though!

thick galleon
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It's not a tech action, so

delicate bramble
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As far as I can see of the System, it is literally just a 'system', and not anything else, right?

thick galleon
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yep
contrast with Imperial Eye

tall ferry
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question

is the razor swarm available for invades by allies? Since

A Razor Swarm counts as a Drone for the purposes of you and your allies' systems, talents, traits, etc. but is not a character and is otherwise considered to be a zone on the battlefield

exotic snow
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You can't invade a razor swarm, because it's not a character

To INVADE, make a tech attack against a character within SENSORS and line of sight. [...] You can also INVADE willing allied characters to create certain effects.

sour raptor
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Could somebody explain to me what the game plan for the Horus hecatoncheires.

visual vault
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A bunch of things. It's a fairly versatile frame. I'm personally a big fan of "hide in a big cluster of enemies with a nanocomp krakatoa flamethrower", but that's me.

onyx iris
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Access to a blast 1 drone + drone command 2 is something it has that most things don't

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So, "lock on to something, put a drone near or on it, shoot it for damage on it and all of its buddies"

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is a pretty solid game plan

sour raptor
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Ok thank you

civic thorn
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  • Some kind of melee controller/striker (nanobot whip is right there!)
  • Some kind of tech attack Invader (Scanner Swarm is right there!)
  • Some kind of drone commander focus (razor swarm and hive drone are right there!)
  • Some kind of hide-focused sneaky skirmisher (Dispersed Profile and Smoke And Mirrors are right there!)
  • Some kind of Artillery or anti-invisibility hunter (Panoptes Targeting is right there!)
    it is very very versatile
sour raptor
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Cool

fathom root
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Has anyone played Heca in a sort of Invasion Ninja style? I feel there's potential to drop an Invasion on someone's head and then book it to hide.

visual vault
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Doubtful, given that it's not really taking advantage of the Frame's strengths (Panoptes Targeting, heavy mount)

fathom root
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Perhaps, but it sounds fun. Fuck meta min/max builds, me and my homies hate min/max builds.

fast oar
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you absolutely could do it

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Puppet system tech attack into your own overwatch is actually pretty mean

mint saddle
fast oar
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An invade also does not stop you from skirmishing with your mounts either

mint saddle
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Though I do agree with Ash, it doesn't quite play to the frame's strengths.

visual vault
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Action economy gets tight, but I can see something that's very comfortable with OC heat (Toku 2/Genghis 1/Heatfall?) potentially doing Puppet Systems + Krakatoa Skirmish + Hide

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in fact, I think I do have a build like that kicking around that uses homebrew licenses

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yep, horrible creature

# 
[ LICENSES ]
  HORUS Balor 2, G&S Scheherazade 3, HORUS Goblin 1, IPS-N Vlad 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Rockstansky Bulk, Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints
[ TALENTS ]
  Vanguard 3, Heavy Gunner 3, Nuclear Cavalier 2, Infiltrator 2
[ STATS ]
  HULL:2 AGI:0 SYS:3 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:16 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:10 REPAIR:4
  TECH ATK:+4 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:13 SENSE:10 SAVE:14
[ WEAPONS ]
  MAIN MOUNT: Impact Lance
  HEAVY MOUNT: Fusion Torch (Nanocomposite Adaptation) // Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Foundational Mirror Logic, DINAZADE Class NHP x3, Displacement Mirrors, H0R_OS System Upgrade I```
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courtesy of fusion torch (as an OWS exotic) having

image.png
fathom root
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The idea of puppet system-ing a mech into a Razor Swarm is very funny imo.

visual vault
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Yeah, pretty much the draw.

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Impact Lance also is good synergy because you can use Puppet Systems to correct the line and fire.

fathom root
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I've never liked playing super min-max builds in any game because it's just not fun at the end of the day.

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Likewise, I don't want to be a spreadsheet warrior. You can have the most optimized mech/list/whatever, but the moment the dice start rolling the law of averages tends to be more akin to guidelines.

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I can see decent ways to play Heca as a Invasion mech. Namely taking advantage of the general speed of the thing to close distances and get in engagement.

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A Heca in melee with an opponent hit by Fragment Signals, and blanketed by Razor Swarm. The enemy is Impaired, slowed, being eaten by nanites, and has to worry about the 1/2 sized mech swinging around a Heavy Charge Blade.

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With some clever finagling, you can have a Hive Drone covering you, which makes everyone else have a +2 difficulty to shoot and interfere.

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Alternatively, nanobot whip so you can more easily be in the comfort of a cloud of angry bees. This also takes advantage of Panopties Targeting, at the cost of Scanner Swarm.

pearl meteor
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If you want to play into hide, I think you do benefit from getting an invade system to complement frag sig. Invading with Infiltrator 2 can get you a free slow+impair

gray delta
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Iā€™m really interested in running this and will probably try to sell this to my current group once we are done with our current mission.

Quick question though for those of you who have run it: how do you get players to band together as a clique? There isnā€™t a written reason in the materials (nor do I think there needs to be) but Iā€™m just curious as to what others have come up with.

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I can see something along the lines of ā€œyou were all late for orientation so you get detentionā€ as a way to force the players to be friends with each other (maybe making NPCs wary of befriending them as they somehow messed up their first day of school, so the players have to band together)

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I use the word ā€˜forceā€™ very loosely of course

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ā€˜encourageā€™ probably being the better word

fast oar
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So I think its fair to say players will naturally band together in most games of Lancer (and ttrpgs in general)

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But what I did personally was ask them how they already knew each other before

gray delta
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yeah, was just trying to think of the most natural way to go about it

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I think Iā€™ll go with the Archchancellor saying ā€œsince you five were late, you should go around as a group and apologize to each of your tutors as a group as wellā€

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that way the group is established as a clique of sorts from the get-go

civic thorn
# fathom root Has anyone played Heca in a sort of Invasion Ninja style? I feel there's potenti...

If you can start Hidden, with Infiltrator 3 you can do some especially nasty jumpscares.

  • Start Hidden inside Razor Swarm from previous round
  • Standard Move X spaces up to adjacency with a target
  • Quick Tech: Invade
  • Infiltrator 2 - target makes a Systems save vs Impaired/Slowed (free Fragment Signal effects)
  • Choose Puppet System (H0R_OS 1) and make the target move, triggering reactions
  • Overwatch triggers immediately before they move, which you use to hit with your Heavy melee mount (Nanobot Whip is easy pick)
  • Lose Hidden from taking the Overwatch reaction
  • Infiltrator 3, before losing Hidden, force another save vs Blind, then move X spaces anywhere you want, and THEN lose hidden.
  • Use remaining Quick Action to Hide again
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Throw in Thinking Tomorrow's Thought, Pankrati 1, and Scanner Swarm to augment all of this to nasty levels.

pearl meteor
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Or Open Door to make all those saves really stick

exotic snow
# gray delta Iā€™m *really* interested in running this and will probably try to sell this to my...

There is a small note about this in the Running The Campaign section:

When establishing a PCā€™s background, it is usually a good idea to include a detail that links them to at least one other PC in some way ā€“ an old friendship, a political entanglement, or shared experiences in the military or other organization. It is possible for the PCs to begin play without knowing each other, but it tends to be easier to run a game for a cohesive group, and a shared history gives the players many opportunities for interesting roleplay.

Typically this is also something I chat about in session zero; as long as everyone's on the same page about banding together and not creating loner characters the group should naturally form. But as you point out, ||the fact that all of the PCs are late|| is intended to give the GM/players an additional lever to pull on - it means that ||the Archchancellor approaches them as a group, and you can have other NPCs react similarly if you feel the need||.

quartz blaze
# 
[ LICENSES ]
  HORUS Balor 2, HA Barbarossa 2, IPS-N Kidd 1, HORUS Hydra 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Heatfall Coolant System, Overpower Caliber
[ TALENTS ]
  Crack Shot 3, Brutal 3, Infiltrator 2, Drone Commander 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:17 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:10 REPAIR:5
  TECH ATK:+1 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:10 SENSE:10 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  MAIN MOUNT: Blackspot Targeting Laser
  HEAVY MOUNT: Anti-Materiel Rifle (Nanocomposite Adaptation) // Overpower Caliber
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Hive Drone, Autoloader Drone x3, PUPPETMASTER```
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This is my sniper nest Hecatoncheires build, slightly modified from my original build for a game I'm in so my talents might be a little off but

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This thing is brutally effective at firing this nano comped rifle every turn like clockwork and taking Crack Shot 3 shots with absolutely no penalty (and probably still come out on top with additional accuracy)

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It gets left alone because of the defensive perimeter I can create with Razor swarm, Hive Drone, and later on some additional goodies to pad my sniper nest even further.

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The deployable plate from Kidd that makes one of my drones provide even wider zones of coverage will be handy as well. Especially when it's time to drop burn on everything covered by a drone

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So my enemies have two options: Get deleted by my rifle I can reload and fire each turn, despite invisibility, or suffer the consequences of trying to rush me.

civic thorn
plain gale
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Does the Roc Superlifter heat stipulation mean that Taraxacum doesn't have innate hover like Dusk Wing?

prisma ruin
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It still has the innate hover, there's just a heat cost that goes up when carrying something.

fast oar
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Well it still takes 1 heat

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no matter if it carried someone or not

civic thorn
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Taraxacum can hover at any time. It costs 1 + (Size Carried) heat to do this.

plain gale
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Alrighty, wanted to check ^^b

delicate bramble
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The way I thought the Taraxacum's flight/hover worked, is that regardless if it used "flight"
(IE: flying in straight lines) or used "Hover" (IE: flying a zig-zag as part of Standard Movement),
it'd still incur 1+[Size of carried allies/objects].

civic thorn
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ROC SUPERLIFTER FLIGHT SYSTEM
The Taraxacum may hover when it moves. As long as it is only carrying objects or allied characters, the Taraxacum may ignore carry restrictions caused by flying.
At the end of any of your turns in which you use this trait, you take heat equal to 1 + the total Size of objects and characters you are carrying.
If you use "hover when you move" from this trait, it costs 1 + (Size Carried) at the end of your turn. Hover is just Better Flight so distinguishing whether you move in straight lines or not doesn't matter.

exotic snow
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Notably it's the use of any part of the trait, the hover and/or the carrying (it's worded like this to stop shenanigans like taking All-Theater Movement Suite in order to carry the whole party around for just 1 heat per turn)

fathom root
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Not a mechanics question, but what do y'all imagine the Hecatoncheires looks like generally? Would it land on the taller side of 1/2 mechs (Gobbo and Napoleon) or the shorter end (Atlas and Caliban)?

civic thorn
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My personal head-image is essentially a caliban shrouded in 'smoke'. Just over the edge of "power armor" but still relatively low-profile.

void gyro
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Based on the description I imagine it as some mix of the Predator and that Danish Frogmen unit with the veils

delicate bramble
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Always thought that Goblin was on the shorter scale of 1/2 sizers?

loud bear
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itā€™s actually pretty tall, compared to the guy in it

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if theyā€™re roughly 6ft tall, the gob is like 9-12

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vs the caliban which is probably 7-9, or the nap which is maybe a touch taller

ivory laurel
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Gobbo's a lanky fella

rain jewel
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will the bonds be released separately/as homebrew if the ruling is that they can't be put into the splatbook? i love the bonds system but the fact that theres only 8 is the biggest damper for me and it's really cool to see more!

exotic snow
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It's really going to depend on how discussions go behind the scenes. I want to make them public in some format, and if that means releasing as a third party product that's something I'm willing to consider. But nothing's set in stone yet, and I can't give a concrete answer to that (even if I wanted to!)

rain jewel
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fair enough! loving the vibes of the bonds already

merry nova
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How does Fuck You from Firebrand interact with True Grit from Titan?

Screenshot_20240320_171626_Opera.jpg Screenshot_20240320_163720_Adobe_Acrobat.jpg
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Do you just get an action with +1 accuracy and increased effect right after breaking?

exotic snow
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yes

flint rivet
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not a question but making a skill heck sure does sound like a fun time

image.png
merry nova
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Oh, nice. And the wording is clear but I still want to make sure, if you break again after this you get another accuracy and increased effect action right?

exotic snow
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if you're breaking multiple times a session you may have other problems to worry about šŸ˜…

thick galleon
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WOOO BONDS

merry nova
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Got it, thank you

rough whale
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I don't know if I'm using bonds wrong if I've only ever broken one player ever

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Also bonds are amazing and from a brief skim I love these

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The audacity to have a bond power called "fuck you" is absolutely brilliant

exotic snow
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it varies from game to game, but IME breaking is not super common unless the players are playing fast and loose with their stress track, or the GM is running with applying consequences to every action. I wouldn't expect breaking multiple times a session to happen with any kind of regularity in most games

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like, I've had my characters break occasionally because it's fun, and I've had PCs break in my games, but I've never felt like it was totally out of the player's control in either case

rough whale
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I tend to never know when to apply stress so I either have no stress for ages and then suddenly out of nowhere in say a combat sequence I throw out a bunch

cerulean umbra
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just checking

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can hecatoncheiris hide in its own razor swarm?

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or in a hive drone swarm?

exotic snow
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yep, both grant soft cover

spice plank
thick galleon
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#new-content-resources message

spice plank
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doof. Right underneath.

strange shell
drifting bane
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Does the Tagetes trait that lets you turn any weapon into a rifle work with Integrated Weapons? (Specifically, I'm curious about the Fuel Rod Gun)

exotic snow
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weapons on integrated mounts can't be modified

drifting bane
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šŸ‘

exotic snow
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though having said that we did actually playtest a fuel rod rifle in an earlier playtest version and it didn't break the game

brazen drum
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It would be fun if you could modify integrated though

drifting bane
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And then second question just to confirm, a Throughbolt Round Anihhilation Nexus can center itself on a drone you control and then fire a line 3 in any direction from the drone and start the burst from the end of that line?

exotic snow
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yes, I believe so (same ruling as throughbolt bristlecrown)

drifting bane
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:)

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Fun times shall be had by all

exotic snow
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actually scratch that, slightly more specific answer now I re-read your question properly

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You can't draw the line from the drone, only from yourself (it's a replacement effect for the normal attack, that specifies you as the origin point)

#

@drifting bane in case you missed the clarification

drifting bane
#

Ahh... that's slightly less fun.

#

In any case, interested to build with the Tagetes once it releases

#

It's hilarious to me that there's a Sherman alt now that can actually use the rifle talents with the heavy laser rifle

exotic snow
#

it's a fun side benefit

drifting bane
#

Gotta hop off now and get work done but ty for the answers and best wishes with the module šŸ‘‹

pearl meteor
#

curiosity question since it came up in #rules-questions earlier: say you slap Pinaka Missiles on a Tagetes, make it a rifle, then slap on Throughbolt. Where do you have to place the two blasts to obey Throughbolt's "continuing in the same direction" clause?
(considering this is a LL8 build and most GM rulings will probably be fine, this doesn't seem like a huge problem)

loud bear
#

the throughbolt line would point to the center of either one of the blasts, imo

ivory laurel
#

I would say both, no?

stray grove
#

I just realized how useful the Tagetes is a support frame with its expanded Stabilize options

visual vault
#

or an OC loop frame šŸ™‚

stray grove
#

That too
But Support Tagetes sounds fun to me

dawn fossil
#

To be consistent with Viceroy, both blasts would be centred on the line (#977588574771896400 message)
(#rules-questions message)

#

Not that it has to be consistent with Viceroy mind you

twin heath
#

Are these new bonds meant to be viewed in-game as Passions or have they been separated from the overall religious element of the other bonds?

exotic snow
#

they are Passions šŸ™‚

#

there's some discussion on page 65/66 (the first beat of Mission 2, so spoilers if you've not already read through) and they're also mentioned in the religion section of the draft

#

basically, they are four of the hundreds that exist beyond the eight major ones we already know about

twin heath
#

Oh! I didn't even make the connection between the names in the module and the new bonds. Thanks for the clarification!

final forum
#

Have to say I really like the new bonds. Immediately had to share the Firebrand to someone close to me X3

paper basin
#

Reading through the new Bonds, I assume Fuck You works with True Grit, but From Hell's Heart doesn't work with True Grit?

exotic snow
#

That is correct, the combo of True Grit and From Hell's Heart would be a bit much I think

paper basin
#

Fair enough, thanks chief

strange shell
#

I'm Sure This Has Been Asked A Lot, But Do We Have A Date For Offical Release Yet?

civic thorn
#

No, there is no published timeline or expected release date.

old frost
#

They were aiming to release Winter Scar just after the core book rerelease in June, according to Kai. He clarified that this was "in an ideal world" though, so that's obviously not a hard date

#

not aware of any release date, tentative or otherwise, for Shadow of the Wolf

brave wyvern
#

Hi everyone, weird question but does the word "choose" means the same thing as "target" in Lancer ? I wanted to see if the Mirage Invade option (Neurospike from Dusk Wing 1) triggers Relay Coupling trait from the Taraxacum.

exotic snow
#

Looking into this, I'm not sure if this is actually a question with a defined answer. Whatever ruling you make would also apply to things like the Kidd's core power (targeting an allied character to tick up the Jolly Roger Die), so I'm pretty sure giving a hard answer on this is outside my remit as a designer. For the record, I would probably rule "no", but that ruling should not be considered errata or an official ruling on how Mirage works - you would have to ask Tom.

brave wyvern
#

Yeah I guess it was a far-fetched question. Thanks anyway for your input on this.

#

I guess that ruling questions in TTRPGs will never have a definitive answer. Which is okay.

#

At least for this kind of question.

crude furnace
#

so I uh

#

got a idea for a Heca build

# 
[ LICENSES ]
  IPS-N Raleigh 2, IPS-N Tortuga 1, HA Barbarossa 3, HORUS Balor 2
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Reinforced Frame, Superior by Design
[ TALENTS ]
  Vanguard 3, Infiltrator 3, Grease Monkey 2, Siege Specialist 2, Drone Commander 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:2 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:25 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:12 REPAIR:5
  TECH ATK:+3 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:12 SENSE:10 SAVE:14
[ WEAPONS ]
  MAIN MOUNT: SUPERHEAVY WEAPON BRACING
  HEAVY MOUNT: Siege Cannon (Nanocomposite Adaptation)
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Armament Redundancy, Autoloader Drone x3, ā€œRolandā€ Chamber, BB Breach/Blast Charges x5, Personalizations```
#

sneak around, set up shop, and then NAIL THEM with a explosive pod of 4d6 damage

#

then add on some breach charges for when I can't just sneak my way through the enviroment

#

BLOW IT UP

#

wait damn it vanguard doesn't translate over since I don't have room for the decksweeper

merry nova
#

How exactly does the part of Entangled Co-Consciousness Rig work? If you get stunned you can give it to your AI and keep controlling your mech?

image.png
visual vault
#

AI don't benefit from your talents and such unless explicitly stated, and your GM may have your co-consciousness rig go off and do its own thing

merry nova
#

I see, still though I'll take that for avoiding stunned

calm badge
crude furnace
#

so it's a give and take here

calm badge
#

Fair enough. ĀÆ_(惄)_/ĀÆ

crude furnace
#

though it would be funny if there was a way for the barbarossa to be able to sneak as well

#

its all quiet, when suddenly a behemouth pops out of nowhere with a fully charged spool rail

calm badge
#

Barb w/ Active Camo, but that's more for #mech-hangar.

crude furnace
#

yep!

exotic snow
languid relic
#

I know more official maps for the module are in the works, but I was under the impression someone posted something less official/more off the cuff somewhere, but now for the life of me I can't find them.

thick galleon
#

Not these?
#new-content-resources message

stark horizon
#

Yeah, all the combats have a map ready for playtesting in there

languid relic
#

perfect. Missed those and other communications elsewhere threw me off

#

thanks folks

tropic zealot
#

For hecatoncheires, I noticed that it can hide when in an area of soft cover. Does that mean it cannot hide when the soft cover is being provided by something else, like for example Combined Arms 1?

exotic snow
#

If it's not in an area of soft cover, the regular hide rules apply

dawn fossil
#

You can't hide in combined arms soft cover normally

#

It has to be a zone/area on the map to let you hide in it.

#

page 69

image.png
tropic zealot
#

got it thank you both!

tall ferry
#

So I've been trying out tagetes for a little while but I can't seem to like...make it work or wrap my head around it. What's it's sorta niche?

visual vault
#

Crack Shot OC Loop, or just a generic stat stick

thick galleon
#

Great teamwork if you have a spotter or defender who likes to stick close to you

fast oar
#

Gonna try it tomorow but it seems to be mostly about crackshot yeah

#

its the main benefit of having something be a rifle

stray grove
#

RSU plus the Tagetes' frame traits+Engineer 2 means that you can a lot of support stuff with a Quick Action Stabilize

ivory laurel
stray grove
#

youre right

compact trellis
narrow dirge
#

I think granting Overkill is also very good depending on weapon set-up. This is absolutely me being biased because of my love of and potential build messing with Unraveler Tagetes

paper basin
golden girder
#

as i understand it i think you can confine mimic gun to being a rifle which comes with zero benefits and in fact harms your build but it is funny

compact trellis
stray grove
#

The Karrakin equivalent to a mass produced Sherman taming a Mimic Gun by accident is hilarious to think about

#

"Not a gun? What are you talking about, this rifle looks perfectly rifle-shaped to me"

vapid cape
tall ferry
#

Pinaka missiles but a rifle does sound funny

civic thorn
# tall ferry Pinaka missiles but a rifle does sound funny 
[ LICENSES ]
  SSC Monarch 3, HA Sherman 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Superior by Design, Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints
[ TALENTS ]
  Crack Shot 3, Nuclear Cavalier 3, Technophile 3
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:21 ARMOR:1
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:14 REPAIR:6
  TECH ATK:-1 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:3 EVA:7 EDEF:8 SENSE:8 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  Integrated: Fuel Rod Gun
  FLEX MOUNT: SOL-Pattern Laser Rifle
  MAIN MOUNT: SUPERHEAVY WEAPON BRACING
  HEAVY MOUNT: Pinaka Missiles // Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Enlightenment-Class NHP, TLALOC-Class NHP, Redundant Systems Upgrade x3, Armament Redundancy, Personalizations```
I did draft it at one point. Autostab TLALOC Crackshot Pinakas. "Someone is GOING to get hit."
tall ferry
#

Just tried our tagetes. It feels odd that the tagetes has less sensors than Sherman as it's a sorta sniper support

narrow dirge
#

I feel it's lack of sensors is supposed to play into it's archetypical sniper role. Especially with it's Rank trait. It encourages a sniper + spotter duo playstyle

exotic snow
narrow dirge
#

Yeah, very fair on that, lmao. But I definitely read the vibes of having a cool buddy do your lock on, while you get to benefit from better saves and checks, and then converting that back into CC Removal from your hacker/lock on friendo. But even without that specific allyship it is more than competent enough at it's job.

exotic snow
#

I'll admit I have been toying with increasing its sensors to 10, since that's not a huge increase but does play well alongside a lot of range 5 weapons. I think a lot of folks who wish it could do its own lockons would prefer it to be range 15 or 20 though, and that's something I specifically wanted to avoid

fast oar
#

I think that would help it feel more relevant for more weapons imo

#

Sensor 8 means that you are at the exact breakpoint where you can't crackshot immobilize and get more range for stuff like assault cannon and leviathan cannon

tall ferry
#

Hmm that's fair. I like the id a of the tagetes but I've always been confused on how to really outfit it.

Cause I see it and go "oh it's a support sniper"

golden girder
#

nanocomp tachlance with a held image swallowtail buddy would be nasty

tall ferry
#

I think just full on leaning into the fill sniper idea might be better. With some supportive tank beside me

narrow dirge
#

I typically view it has "an artillery who happens to like friends" has opposed to a proper support. Since it is able to sustain itself with all of it's mechanics selfishly (outside of Rank), but if it has a friend it can then spread out the boons. Since when I think of the idea of "support sniper" the Emperor very prominently exists.

rare flume
#

yeahi did note in the feedback that, sans crackshot, the only real reason to convert someting into a rifle was for likethe range boost, or for using certain mods, and it just felt awkward since all of your in license weapons could already hit anything in your sensor's range,

tall ferry
#

Mhmm. Makes sense

fast oar
#

See I don't really see it as a support because rank discipline is strictly for you and not allies

tall ferry
#

It's more of better stabilize allowing you to better support your allies and your cp

rare flume
#

yeah i dont really view it as a support either, esp since between crackshot and rank's activation, you arent really in a position to hover around your friends without them also comitting to your crackshot playstyle if you use it

fast oar
#

Yeah, Rank Discipline is more or less the same as like, bonded, and those play pretty hard with crackshot since you are going to have even less mobility than you normally would

rare flume
#

and your allies have to start tyheir turn in your core active zone. which makes that even harder to use as a support tool

#

its very much a "this is for me, but if you happen to be nearby, you can use it too, i guess" sorta deal

fast oar
#

I'm gonna try and use a Tagetes today

#

I have a playtest I get to play in this evening

narrow dirge
#

Yeah, not supporty. The better stabilize is deeply selfish most times, same with the Core Power and Rank Discipline. It can be used to help allies, which is a lovely boon, but it is not a support that focuses on aiding allies (outside of granting the death CC condition)

#

I just got it in my Wolf playtest and will be interested in working with it.

fast oar
# 
[ LICENSES ]
  HA Sherman 3, HA Barbarossa 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Superior by Design, Heatfall Coolant System
[ TALENTS ]
  Nuclear Cavalier 3, Crack Shot 3, Spotter 3
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:1
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:14 REPAIR:6
  TECH ATK:-1 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:3 EVA:7 EDEF:8 SENSE:8 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  Integrated: Fuel Rod Gun
  FLEX MOUNT: Mortar
  MAIN MOUNT: SUPERHEAVY WEAPON BRACING
  HEAVY MOUNT: Siege Cannon
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Siege Stabilizers, ASURA-Class NHP x3, Armament Redundancy, Redundant Systems Upgrade x3 ```
#

i'm gonna show up with this

#

both the siege cannon and mortar are rifles

#

but that also means both of them don't benefit much from its core passive

#

(the added range)

#

so that's why I have siege stabilizer

#

I took spotter in case an ally wants to stay next to me

narrow dirge
#

Can't minroll, but yeah. Hard to value the range of the passive because it Def feels like a rich get richer scenario with most weapons.

fast oar
#

The thing with the core passive is that its basically the most useful if you know an ally will throw out lock ons and you have a midrange weapon that you decided to turn into a rifle

#

otherwise the best way to use it consistently is to use it with range 5 or lower weapons

narrow dirge
#

Mhm. I also personally value the overkill, but primarily because of my natural unluck on most damage rolls, Aha.

fast oar
#

and there's a lot of rifles that are midrange already

narrow dirge
#

Ah. Does the Range Increase grant range to weapons without it? So could a Manticore Pistol turn into Range 5 with the cone at the end, or is it inapplicable?

fast oar
#

Nope

#

if its meant to work like any other range increases, the weapon needs a range to increase

narrow dirge
#

Unfortunate, but fair

#

...Daisy Cutter would've been unfun with that. I see it

civic thorn
#

Yeah any increases to Range only apply to a weapon's cc_range number, and if it doesn't have a cc_range it does nothing.

tall ferry
#

Any suggestions on how to Gilgamesh btw?

#

It seems like alot of fun but I'm trying to feel out what I want to learn into ar a base strategy

rapid crystal
#

gilgamesh is an extremely generalist frame as far as i can tell
load up on resources you can spend to solve problems type deal

ivory laurel
#

#1174488469079326720, technically

desert hatch
#

Limited systems do a lot of different things, you can spec into whatever you want

tall ferry
#

Oh wrong one lol

exotic snow
#

I feel like we need some kind of signpost for which frames are in which release, this keeps happening šŸ˜…

pearl meteor
#

could put them in the thread title, I guess?

narrow dirge
#

Would this be the place to ask a question about how gaining a variant frame works, or would that be in the narrative forum.

visual vault
#

narrative, but SotW isn't even in a LL format where players would gain non-GMS frames

narrow dirge
#

I meant specifically in regards to the ones gained during the duration of the module, but alright.

#

...Nevermind. Reading Comprehension check. I figured it out.

modern copper
#

For the Heca: when it says "-can always Hide in an area of soft cover, regardless of Engagement or enemy traits and systems." what enemy traits and systems is it specifically talking about? Like I was looking at Scout's Sight but that just allows the Scout to ignore Hidden not prevent the Heca from taking the Hide action.

opaque mason
#

Does the Hovercasters Roc Superlifter cause Heat even when it's not your turn when moving with it? Like if a Goblin moves you with H0r_OS1 or you get Ferrus lashed while flying?

compact trellis
dull junco
wide inlet
#

Scout also has rebound scan

vale pine
#

Y'all, I do have a question, but it is a dumbass meme question.

#

Can I put my Hecatoncharies in a giant gourd when I'm not wearing it?

#

y'know

SPOILER_220.png
civic thorn
#

You can flavor your stuff however you like assuming the other players and GM are also willing to roll with that. There's precedent in Liminal Space's JUSTICE alt frame which is a suitcase nanocore that unfolds into a Size 2 mech like it's stored in a clown car bag of holding. Do whatever you're cool with and can at least half-ass justify for the character.

dawn fossil
#

Flavour is free. So the answer is broadly yes.

Can I get a mechanical advantage from a flavour decision? e.g. Can I smuggle in this mech frame to the party without anyone noticing because of a flavour decision I made?
The answer to that is usually "Not without GM permission"

vale pine
#

it beginsssss

strange shell
delicate bramble
#

Waaaaiiitaminute....
if Gaara is a Heca, would that put Rock Lee as a Toku?

strange shell
#

Seeing How It Burns Up His Inside, Yes Rock Lee Is A Tokugawa

exotic snow
#

hey gang if we could keep this to actual questions rather than general discussion or memes that would be good

merry nova
#

How does ||entangled co-consciousness rig|| interact with stasis generator?

visual vault
#

What interaction might be causing confusion?

exotic snow
merry nova
#

Ah, I forgot the specific wording of the rig it seeƶs. Thank you

remote kettle
#

regarding the Hecatoncheires : the razor swarm "counts as a Drone for the purposes of you and your allies' systems, talents, traits, etc". Can you invade it because it is considered a drone (with beckoner-summon for example) and invading an ally isn't considered an attack ? Or you can't because "it is not a character and is otherwise considered to be a zone on the battlefield" ? (I've seen this question asked in late 2023 in this thread but didn't find a definite answer, sorry if I missed it)

#

Sidequestion: if it can be invaded with beckoner-summon, does one of the affected characters go right into the center of the burst 1 swarm, or do affected enemies stop at adjacent spaces of the burst ?

civic thorn
remote kettle
civic thorn
#

Yes, because the "counts as a drone" bit is so that you can get cool synergies like Drone Commander 1/2/3 and Centimane 2 and Puppetmaster, but otherwise it's not supposed to be something enemies can affect much like how the Hive's Razor Swarm works.

remote kettle
#

alright, crystal clear, thanks for your quick answer! šŸ™

burnt jolt
#

From discussion in #lancer-general message : The Taraxacum's Core Active can scan Hidden characters, due to it being an AoE. The Core Passive means NPCs scanned by the Tarax can't benefit from Invisible or cover. Would this cause them to lose the Hidden status (temporarily or permanently), if they were only able to remain hidden due to Invisible? What about if they were only hidden due to cover?

exotic snow
#

If they lose the benefits of the thing that was enabling them to remain hidden, and they're in LOS of something, then yes. Same as anything else that breaks invisible or removes cover benefits while something is hidden.

cerulean umbra
#

a tagetes has a Sige Cannon "Rifle" and is going to fire in siege mode

one enemy far away has lock on and with 5 more range it can hit it. does it also hit the surrounding enemies as well since it's a blast weapon?

golden girder
#

id assume yes, AOEs can hit people you cant normally target like hidden characters so id guess itd function as usual

dawn fossil
#

IIRC as long as one enemy you target with an AoE weapon has lock on you get the extended range

cerulean umbra
#

yippeee!

cerulean umbra
#

so

I, a Tagetes with a paracausal siege cannon rifle, am gonna shoot at three people

I have brutal 3 and crackshot 3

let's say my first shot missed, thus giving me 1 accuracy on my next shot. if for my second shot i want to aim for a weakpoint, do i declare that before making the attack or when I'm about to do the attack roll?

rare flume
#

I think you'd have to decide before making any attack rolls

cerulean umbra
#

alright

magic coral
#

hey, question with the Tenacity bond power: When you push yourself to reroll a skill check, you may take an additional Stress. If you do, gain +1 ACCURACY.

as far as i am aware, Pushing adds +1 Accuracy; it does not reroll. so what does this power do?

#

ah, wait, nevermind! misread a bit of the KTB

#

disregard my question entirely, my bad!

paper basin
#

My take on the Heca

Hecantoncheires.jpg
solar fulcrum
#

Okay, I searched for it but couldn't find an answer: you cannot place the Heca's Razor Swarm on top of enemies when it's deployed, but can you Drone Commander it atop them afterwards on your next turn?

exotic snow
#

yes, absolutely

solar fulcrum
#

I thought so - that it was a "you can't just deploy it to make enemies take damage they can't avoid" wording - but wanted to make sure, thanks!

stray grove
#

there's also PUPPETMASTER

solar fulcrum
#

... So there is.

umbral wagon
#

In the newest version of the module doc, did the campaign flowchart get removed? I really appreciated having that little piece of information as a dm

exotic snow
#

there was never a campaign flowchart

#

each Mission has a list of the beats/combats in its summary though

#

as written, SOTW is relatively linear with the exception of ||the unlikely consequences of the PCs getting arrested in Beat 9 or losing Combat 6|| and of course ||the two versions of Combat 8||, none of which really merit a flowchart

umbral wagon
#

Really? I swear a saw a flowchart somewhere in the doc

#

Oh nevermind, it was in Dustgrave, iā€™m sorry

prisma vapor
#

Oh hey, wanted to ask, did they said how they will emphasises the 'timeline' section will be shown in the final product?

I read the anotations they wanted to make sure it was in a noble perspective

exotic snow
prisma vapor
#

ah that's fair, thank you, sorry for sounding confusing!

pastel hearth
#

Do you need to recall the Hecatonchieres' Raxor swarm before you redeploy it?

civic thorn
#

No, you essentially just move it to the new location with a Quick Action.

solar fulcrum
#

The Heca is paranoia-inducing and I love it.

civic thorn
#

Mind that you cannot put it on top of an enemy, whether initially deploying or redeploying the Razor Swarm. You have to either move the enemy into it or move the Razor Swarm via Drone Commander 1 or PUPPETMASTER

solar fulcrum
#

But you can hide in it after launching missiles.

astral glade
#

The Heck hasn't gotten any changes since the "ignore Invis" got the "within Sensors" caveat, right?

exotic snow
#

No further mechanical changes since that update, but there was a minor flavour text update

final forum
# solar fulcrum The Heca is paranoia-inducing _and I love it_.

yeah same.

Also I have to give kudos to the lore on the Hecatoncheires. It take something scary like the Balor and instead make it in a kind of scary more like that of the Caliban and that somehow make the frame almost even more terrifying than the more supernatural kind of terror that the Balor's lore represents.

sinful perch
civic thorn
#

Send a pulse of energy to an allied character (including Drones) within Range 3
I think the strictest RAW says that you're right and razor swarm shouldn't be a valid target for DC3.

sinful perch
#

yeah, what I thought

exotic snow
#

specific beats general, because the ability says "including Drones" it includes the Razor Swarm

civic thorn
#

I'm happy to have it count. I first read it as "including drones" being like reminder text that drones are allied characters, as opposed to "this targets allied characters AND anything that happens to be a drone".

sinful perch
#

Exactly my thought leading to the question

exotic snow
#

that was likely the original intent of that text, yes

sinful perch
#

So you're saying "because the swarm is a drone, you can target it with invigorate even though it's not a character", correct ?

#

I don't know if that's planned, but if you're thinking of making an faq for SoTW similar to what Kai's been doing, I think including this in it could be a good idea just in case

exotic snow
#

I'll consider it

stray grove
#

hello, may i ask, i once saw a list of things that a Hecatoncheires' Smoke and Mirrors feature could bypass. Was it ever posted here?

exotic snow
#

yes, there've been a couple of discussions about it. I'm a little too busy to find it right now but if someone else wouldn't mind searching up the discussion and linking it here that would save me a job šŸ™‚

stray grove
#

I realize this is the wrong thread to ask my question i think this is more of a mechanical query rather than a SotW module specific one mb

civic thorn
#

It's okay, this is the place for it.

#

#1171239737676271626 message

- Marker Rifle ("can't Hide")
- Veteran Lesser Sight ("can't Hide")
- Ultra Sight ("can't Hide")

It does *not* ignore:
- Scout Sight ("ignores Hidden")```
stray grove
#

ohh isee isee thankyou

exotic snow
#

no that's wrong

#

Marker Rifle is a weapon

#

it's also missing a few other NPC optionals that interact with Hide/Hidden

visual vault
#

I could probably do a better one these days that mentions Flare Drone, Scout Drone, etc, but at this point it's probably best to get an "official" FAQ

haughty kelp
#

Hello, I just finished reading the playtest doc and am incredibly stoked about this module. It seems like I'm arriving here fairly late into the project so I was wondering if there is anything in particular that it would be useful to have additional testing data on at this juncture? I'd love to have an excuse to do a few sessions asap. I saw there was a request for open table/ westmarch server feedback from a few months ago but sadly that's not my jam.

exotic snow
# haughty kelp Hello, I just finished reading the playtest doc and am incredibly stoked about t...

Don't feel constrained. While we've had a pretty extensive amount of testing of pretty much everything at this point, more reports are still valid and useful - it's always possible there are things that have been missed, or you can provide extra confirmation of things we think we know. That said if you're looking for things to drill down on specifically, the two things that would be the most useful to get more data on are 1) more people running the combats from Mission 2 (particularly 8B) since most groups who've been sending me data are working through the mission as intended and that means I've not had as many reports on that one, and 2) more use of the bond powers since getting playtest feedback on narrative stuff is naturally somewhat slower.

#

The frames have all been tested to death and we're reasonably happy with where they are right now, but I'm always open to new reports. I guess if I had to ask for anything we could do with more high-LL (10+) games since a lot of community testing caps out at LL6 or LL8. While we've done internal testing at that level, it's very hard to get reliable data up there

exotic snow
#

Also, and this is worth clarifying more broadly - we are getting towards the end of the process but I'm still accepting any and all feedback up until we move to layout. Obviously things become more tricky to change once we've moved to editing so if you have feedback I'd rather receive it sooner than later, but I see no reason not to stop testing until the last minute

sinful perch
exotic snow
#

the reason we ask for experience and feedback based on actual play is mostly to situate people's opinions in their proper context. I think all the first party writers have had the experience of people coming up with the wildest assumptions about how stuff works, even (and perhaps especially) when they've never touched it. Lancer is super complicated, so when we have actual play experiences we can cross reference them, find points of commonality, and figure out what factors might be involved in any given outcome.

sinful perch
#

Aight

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I'm the only player making real use of them right now, but I'll be sure to tell the others if they end up taking some powers (we only have someone with responsibility other than me, and it hasn't triggered yet so...)

#

I'll try to cook something up in the somewhat-near future

sinful perch
#

While we're on the topic actually, and in The Questions Thread, I discovered a particular interaction between two of the Firebrand's powers, and while I already asked my GM for a ruling, I might as well ask here anyways :
With the "Fuck You" power, and also "Tenacity" -it's not required, but it's my current set-up and also makes getting into the situation easier- What happens when you break because of a re-roll ?
Not an easy question, since it also asks what happens normally when you break to a re-roll; for example :
I am at 8/8 stress, and make a roll : after the result, I decide to push it, and take 1 stress, putting me above maximum. Do I :
1-Immediately break and lose my action (essentially can't do it, it would be useless); or
2-Break after resolving my action (as it had already started before breaking), allowing me to finish my action before being taken out of the scene.

Now, with both the others involved (and also on the basis that option 1 is applied, because option 2 makes everything simpler if correct) :
Let's assume 7/8 stress, a roll pushed and tenacity-ed, making me stress. Do I :

  1. lose the action (and it's tenacity accuracy), then take my Fuck You action, with only one base accuracy and increased effect; or
  2. make the "one last action before [ I ] lose control" be the one I am currently taking, and thus gain Fuck You's bonuses on it, for a final +2acc and increased effect, then be removed from the scene.

My GM answered "we'll see when it happens what makes the most sense narratively", and that sounds like the most reasonable option, but I'm still wondering if you'd have a particular stance on this. Of course, not a problem if you don't, it is a very niche interaction after all.
Also, I know it could seem like a pretty purely theoretical scenario, one that wouldn't actually ever happen in play, but given my current character, it's not a question of "if" it happens, but "when". More details on that when I get around to my feedback.

#

not really that contrived of a scenario is what I'm trying to say

#

(I won't blame you if you won't deal with something so long, hit the character limit so it'd be a reasonable reaction)
(I almost feel bad for making you answer something this long)

exotic snow
#

So this is really a question for Tom, since to my knowledge this is ambiguous in the Bond rules and I don't think I'm empowered to make a call on something like that. The way I've run it in the past is that if you're at your stress cap you functionally can't push yourself because you'd take the stress before the action actually happens. That said, I see a very compelling argument for running it the other way, since it favours the PCs more (and taking a burden in addition to any other consequences of a critical role is a pretty big cost).

As far as the specific Fuck You/Tenacity combo goes I think I would generally rule it as option 2 since that's cooler, though I think your GM has made the right call there as the context of the action and the burden you're about to take probably matters.

#

(if Tom has ever ruled on this before I'd love it if someone could link it here; as you might imagine searching for "break" and "stress" on this server does not produce helpful results)

sinful perch
#

The way I've run it in the past is that if you're at your stress cap you functionally can't push yourself because you'd take the stress before the action actually happens.
Yep, that was what I was thinking about in point 1-

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Well, just need to keep playing and find out then !

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It'll be something I mention in my thread should it happen at some point

cerulean umbra
#

can you beckon on hecaton razor swarm?

civic thorn
#

A Razor Swarm counts as a Drone for the purposes of you and your allies' systems, talents, traits, etc. but is not a character and is otherwise considered to be a zone on the battlefield.

To INVADE, make a tech attack against a character within SENSORS and line of sight.

While it's a cool idea I hadn't considered, Razor Swarm isn't a character and you can only Invade characters (including allied characters).

solar fulcrum
#

Oh wow. A way to make a Manticore even more terrifying. Literally just... walk in to enemies and teleport switch with a Razor Swarm. I'm kind of in awe and glad it doesn't work.

exotic snow
#

During testing I've seen some fun Beckoner/Razor Swarm plays using a third character (an allied mech or a second drone), a little more action intensive but it does work

rugged path
# 
the same SIZE as you or larger```
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that clause is in place EXPLICITLY to disallow you from using drones as teleport catapults

calm badge
#

Wasn't Heca size 1/2?

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Could you do the switcheroo then?

rugged path
#

With a razor swarm?

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No, for multiple reasons, one being the swarm is stated to not count as a character (which it needs to be for it to be targeted by tech attacks), but more specifically than that Beckon only targets Mechs

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Even if the Razor Swarm could be targeted like a normal drone, using Beckon on it (or any drone for that matter) is a non-starter

exotic snow
#

Yeah testers have gotten a lot more mileage out of Summon on someone inside the swarm

visual vault
#

Protocol DC1 -> Summon -> OC Krakatoa skirmish -> Heavy Gunner 3 Krakatoa

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Fun times for the whole everyone not those guys

civic thorn
glad shoal
visual vault
#

Overcharge and the second Quick Action out of a turn.

floral robin
#

This has been answered before most likely but I'm bad at searching. So I apologize if this question has been answered.

Is it Pankra-shun, or Pankra-tee-on Mechani?

rugged path
#

I believe it's the former

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Well

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It's a little complicated because I think there are different pronounciation guidelines depending on whether you're going back to ancient greek or not

#

it doesn't help that every IPA pronounciation guide gives like two different versions

floral robin
#

fair, but at least it seems I'm not butchering it completely

rugged path
#

a lot of the resources I've seen refer to it as "pankrashion" but I have no idea how "americanized" that might be

floral robin
#

Nods

final forum
#

Based on the fact Karrakin apparently a lot of romance languages influences(?) I'd be tempted to say it's not unlikely to be pan-kra-tee-on essentially.

Or if it's how attention is pronounced in french... pankra-ssion as that lone t next to i in this specific word is pronounced like a S.

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Though I suspect it's more tee-on

brave wyvern
#

Hi, I have question about the Taraxacum's Core Passive, I wanted to give a feedback about the frame I had during a pick-up game, but I saw that Eld already raised the problem I had with it : the Invisible-removing Scan is too strong.

Is there any change planned about the Taraxacum's Core Passive ?

exotic snow
#

changes aren't currently planned; from the bulk of feedback I've had and the results of the testing I've done I'm currently of the opinion that it's in about the right place (it's the centrepiece of the frame in terms of its power level)

#

obviously I'm willing to consider further test data if you have it

brave wyvern
#

I don't think the test data is really that relevant because it was a pick-up game with a lot of Third Party content just for fun but the player was just basically removing any defense ability of NPCs like Mirage, Witch, Specter or any Spec Op/Dataveiled NPCs with a simple quick action. Giving the ability of the Taraxacum to hover with little drawback, I was just wondering how easy an encounter can become if the Taraxacum could just go flying in the middle of the battlefield and just full tech each round by removing each Invisible NPC out of cover (for me, I see Invisible as a way to defend themselves out of cover and that doesn't depend too much of the map).

I hope I can run a whole Shadow of the Wolf playtest before releasing (but it's unlikely, I have too much campaigns running at the same time).

I also don't want the feedback to be biased because the encounter was a pick-up with a lot of third-party content.

civic thorn
#

I was the one using the Taraxacum, and I think it felt so powerful because:

  • there wasn't much pressure for me to spend actions doing other things from the sitrep or opfor
  • I specifically recognize the horrible pain an invisible enemy can be (50% miss chance feels more like 100% thanks to confirmation bias) and repeatedly pushed the other three players (all striker or artillery) to focus it down so we didn't have to deal with it

Since all the other enemies were a minimum of 10 spaces away pretty much the entire scene it was the only thing that felt like a genuine hazard, even with the Elite Artillery lobbing huge lines of fire. Maybe it was overestimated and overcompensated-for, I am not familiar with those NPCs.

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I also deliberately delayed my turn in order to extend the anti-invisibility as long as possible (go first, then go last, standard turn manipulation) to afford all chances for the high damage strikers to beat it up.

stark horizon
#

Precision Fix is definitely very impactful when applied properly, but a hovering Taraxacum is also a Taraxacum that won't have any cover except that which it can make for itself (like with smoke grenades and such), and you're unlikely to be equipped to take many hits. The +1 heat per turn for hovering on your lonesome can make you susceptible to heatgunning, as well, which even if it doesn't inflict stress can force you to change tactics in a hurry. (A lot of NPCs have decent enough sensor range to at least use a basic Invade if their weapons won't reach the Taraxacum - not the best option, but one that can be a pain if needed.)

Additionally, Precision Fix is very dependent on opfor and map composition to determine its effectiveness - if you're fighting a melee-heavy, no-Invisible comp on a map with significant stretches without cover (and maybe even a low ceiling, a particular favorite in my own map design), neither benefit is going to do a whole lot on average for you.

You can absolutely play Scan keepaway and it sounds like Saladin did basically everything to do this particular strategy as optimally as possible. I have also done similar with my own Taraxacum in another invisible-heavy encounter recently, so I'm not saying it's a weak strategy at all, it can be super impactful and stacks really well with an Orator build. I do think it's counterable enough that I don't think it's something that needs to be nerfed much at all - but I do think it + Orator is about as much as one can push Scan before it actually gets to be too much, I wouldn't want to see someone come in with another Scan-boosting option that could be slapped onto the Taraxacum.

stark horizon
# civic thorn I was the one using the Taraxacum, and I think it felt so powerful because: - t...

The lack of pressure from the sitrep might be the real key thing here - "I sit there and Scan all the Invisible away" isn't going to cut it if you need to start taking objectives or applying Overshield to allies in bad situations (and it's worth noting the Taraxacum's in-license option for Overshield, demands being in range 5 of their allies to use it - might be more of a low-LL thing, but that sort of thing is worth accounting for in support options), stuff like that. My GMing style tends to go for high-pressure sitreps, so I am a little biased there, but I think in general more GMs could benefit from punching a little harder and meaner than they might think they ought to - strategies like these stop working real quick when the PCs are overwhelmed and on the backfoot. (Not saying to be mean to your actual players or try to "win" your mutual leisure game, of course, just that Lancer combat can handle a bit more pressure on the valve pretty nicely.)

exotic snow
stark horizon
#

Would making Precision Fix 1/turn be enough of a deterrent to potential weirdness with it? Not necessarily suggesting that as an official fix, just thinking out loud here

exotic snow
#

No, I don't think that's necessary - all it would really serve to do would be to negatively impact the core active (which is finally in a good place after being repeatedly buffed pretty much every time the frame's been updated)

stark horizon
#

Fair point, yeah

sinful perch
#

My only real thought (not based in first-hand experience though, so I'll let you decide how important it is) is that it feels like it allows players to simply not engage in the encounter's mechanics, especially since scan is automatic and flight almost always guarantees LoS : the GM has almost no response to it.
Unlike most other similar effects, the enemy can't attempt to remove it with action(s), and you also can't choose to take a turn sooner like if it ended at the end of the NPC's turn. That kind of enemy turn manipulation can always be nice too : if the only thing keeping that NPC alive is invisibility and taking its turn will give it back, you can force it to act when you want. Relying on turn manipulation is also not fun for the GM, since the effect will just always be on no matter what you do.

Essentially, my thought is that, since the effect's power is in the right place, maybe we should look at it's duration ? Making it end at the end of the NPC's turn instead of your own could be a bit too much though, I can see that : if the effect is too easy to remove, it won't be worth it at all anymore. Maybe making it require actions ? Saves to end it early ? Wasting actions and/or influencing NPC turn order is still strong in the right hands, but it's true that it leans more in controller territory than real support. I'm not sure myself, thinking out loud too in the end.

It's just never fun, player or GM, to have your strategy entirely invalidated without you having any way to do something against it, no matter how inefficient : all that really matters is having an option at all.

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That last part is really my whole point actually

#

if you want a TL;DR it's that last paragraph yeah.

#

But still : not real first-hand play experience, so grain of salt etc...

exotic snow
#

just to be clear I'm always happy to receive more playtest feedback, but I'm not really in the process of soliciting suggestions for something that's been tested extensively and I am not yet convinced actually needs changing

sinful perch
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fair, fair

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not saying you have to change something, I'm in no position to ask that, ever

#

just putting my thoughts out there, should they be useful for anything (most likely not apparently, then)

final forum
#

Tbh while Taraxacum and its traits are something I have to say there's something about how you have to invest in the Lancaster license yet forego its massive repair cap of 10 and ability to share it with its allies, especially when the Tara not only has a smaller repair cap than Lanny but a smaller one than the Everest at that

stark horizon
#

Yeah, every time I look at the Lancaster while I'm using my Taraxacum, there's a pang of grief in my heart that I don't get Big Repairsā„¢ļø

final forum
#

Plus holy heck i'd forgotten about Lanny's core active and suddenly picture the nightmare of it used on an Everest with hyperspec fuel injector active

fast oar
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I think the only thing that turns precision fix into a bit too much sometimes is the bit about ignoring cover imo, removing invisible is fine as it is on a scan, but it removing the ability to get cover is the only thing Iā€™ve gone back and forth on as a gm in terms of how i feel about it

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I think it can a bit too often make it feel like the careful positioning of npcs doesnā€™t matter when that is in play, making some maps feel a bit more "flat" than they actually are

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But i also feel that itā€™s fine considering what you give up by not taking a lancaster

manic idol
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Removing invis/cover is most of what Athena does; Precision Fix only affects one character, though, so it doesn't feel as bad as "the GM is not allowed to use cover or invisibility"

sterile burrow
#

does the Taraxacum incur the Heat when it uses flight even when not carrying anything?

storm trout
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I believe so

civic thorn
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Yes, it always takes at least 1 heat when it flies with its trait, and +1 heat for every Size it's carrying (if any)

sterile burrow
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gotcha, well hey saves on 3LLs and a CB

storm trout
#

yeah

cinder pike
#

are there any campaigns being run for this?

storm trout
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there's been a few playtest games people have done

cinder pike
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any ongoing? This looks cool

brazen drum
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yup, though ironically were 1 game away from finishing.

cinder pike
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well if you ever want another playtest run, hit me up

thorn solar
#

Wait, Kat, is your Karakin TopGun book first party content?

pearl meteor
#

SotW is first party. (hedging my bets that Kat doesn't have a second KtB Topgun book)

thick galleon
thorn solar
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Omg congratulations! That's super cool!

exotic snow
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Thank you! It's been an exciting and stressful journey

cinder pike
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Wait...so this means it's canon?

thick galleon
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yes

fast oar
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Yeah this is indeed first party and thus canon, itā€™s why it has a thread here actually !

zinc plank
#

Can Heca place their Nanite Swarm into the air?

exotic snow
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The intention is that the space needs to be valid (inherited from being a drone) but not necessarily free (overridden by the "no hostile characters" clause). I've spent quite a while going back and forth over whether that needs further clarification since it's probably better to be explicit, but also the text of the ability is extremely lengthy as it is šŸ¤”

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Razor Swarms are weird

neon iris
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good morrow

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i had a question

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did someone already think ab scaling the encounters for LL2 to LL4?

exotic snow
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You should be able to run them as-is because of the way that Lancer handles NPC tiers, though you may end up with fights on the easier side. If you wanted to make the encounters harder to compensate for the added power from the LLs my advice would be to drop in an extra reinforcement here and there.

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it's not something I'm going to discuss in detail in the book, because I don't want to do the kind of playtesting above LL1 that would make me comfortable issuing definitive authorial statements on that stuff

neon iris
#

oh i see

exotic snow
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I have actually run one or two of the combats at higher LLs and they do indeed function, but a couple of incidental games where we were trying to test something else isn't what I would consider properly playtested

neon iris
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that is fair
So basically if i run a higher ll, i take full responsability xD

exotic snow
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pretty much!

neon iris
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that is fair

exotic snow
#

the book gives you a lot of levers for adjusting the difficulty of combats though, so you should have enough to play around with

neon iris
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i mainly ask cuz it seems like all people who are interested in playing SoTW are very into not starting as everests xD

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ill have to decide

neon iris
zinc plank
exotic snow
#

I'll make a note to take another look at the wording there, will probably discuss with Melody when we get to that stage

neon iris
#

did someone already do the maps for sotw?

exotic snow
#

yes, Eld did the blocking and Siege is doing the art, you can find the playtest versions of the maps in #new-content-resources

neon iris
cinder pike
#

any word on new campaigns?

thick galleon
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besides the two already in #new-content-resources?

rapid crystal
fast oar
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It isnā€™t the channel for it and we also do not have a lfg channel for players

cinder pike
#

sorry, I was just interested in this setting in particular

hearty karma
#
  • What modifications should I make to combats if I would like my players to start at LL3?
visual vault
hearty karma
#

Ah perfect! Thank you

hearty karma
#

Do the wolf frames have art ready?

thick galleon
#

nothing we've been shown

hearty karma
#

šŸ˜­

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I love the character art so far though

cinder pike
#

you know what could be funny, if the Everests of the students had luxury filigree and decorations

final forum
#

There's been only a very quick partial glimpse at a WIP of the Taraxacum in the-gallery so far

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afaik, with Naruga doing the art.

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At first glance it does have less of that Orchis/Calendula filligrees seen in Tom's art but it's also the mech that's an alt-Lancaster so who knows what the Tagetes(A House of Glass/Sand collab) may look like.

Also it might be on purpose to show that not all Karrakin mechs are some kind of neobaroque neofeudalist mecha armor

But all this said Tara is a mech i'm really really really eager for and hope to play when I can finally break the curse of Forever GM

civic thorn
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helpful token from retrograde

Token_-_Bad_Moon_Rising.png
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the hover truk

opaque mason
final forum
#

tbh considering it's re: an alt-lancaster that mechanically feel like the lovechild of an AWAC plane(with all the sensors/scan ability) and Skycrane helicopter)the ability to lift allies) it look mostly how I imagined it might end up looking bar maybe for a lack of the filligree/neobaroque decorations on the actual plating(which was purely because of the Orchis/Calendula official art and tbh that's only a very small sample of only two mechs and FG to KTB has plenty of Orchis-like mechs with less intense "space neo baroque" plating) the only question I have is the design for the legs or if there's a lack of thereof. Though judging as mechs have walking movement I suspect it must have legs of some sort

opaque mason
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I had thought it might look like a Ornithopter from Dune ngl XD

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Would fit the KTB Aesthetic

exotic snow
fathom root
#

Heca is a fuzzy-looking Atlas, or thereabouts.

hearty karma
#

Is there a map of the school grounds?

exotic snow
hearty karma
#

ā¤ļø

brave wyvern
#

Hi, quick question : If I install a Shatterhead Colony Missile (Saladin 1) on a Tagetes and change its type to a Rifle, does that prevent me from trying to hit a weak point while steadying my aim from Zero In (Crack Shot 2) or I can try to hit a weak point without gaining any difficulty from the Shatterhead (and by this way gaining +1 Accuracy thanks to Steady Aim) ?

pearl meteor
#

You can still use zero in, but it'll still cancel out the accuracy from steady aim

#

Shatteredhead doesn't prevent you from ever having difficulty, it just adds a step after you add up all your accuracy and difficulty that cancels out any leftover difficulty

brave wyvern
#

Seems fair. Thanks for the answer !

willow sleet
#

Question around the Taraxacum's Relay Coupling trait: if it's applied to an ally, but then that ally is afflicted by a Witch's Blind tech attack, is the ally still able to use the Taraxacum's line of sight?

My initial thought is the wording of Blind accounts for all line of sight, regardless of source, but I can see an argument either way.

exotic snow
#

This is a really good question that is a little complex for me to answer. It's technically an existing rules question, because the same situation can come up if the Witch uses Blind on someone using Metahook. This puts me outside of my comfort zone in terms of making an "official" ruling since the same answer would apply in that case as well, and for the most part I've been trying to avoid making rulings on existing content.

That said, I've spent some time trying to track down whether this is something that's ever come up before, and I can't find anything. For lack of an existing ruling on this, I'd say that the Blind effect takes precedence under the logic that Relay Coupling (and Metahook) don't let you redefine "adjacent spaces".

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I can definitely see arguments for other rulings here and I wouldn't blame someone for coming to a different conclusion, but I think this would be my preferred ruling

floral robin
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It's been my ruling too, regarding metahook and similar abilities from 3rd party stuff

willow sleet
zinc plank
cinder pike
#

Do you think any citizen of the Purview could act as exchange students in the cavalry college?

thick galleon
#

yes

visual vault
#

yep, I'm pretty sure there's a canon thing about HA-KTB exchange programs

vapid cape
#

Doesn't it explicitly say so in the draft itself?

cinder pike
#

i wonder what would happen to those students once the Dawnline Shore kicks off

brave wyvern
onyx iris
#

sounds like a fun way to start a duel

#

Someone says something about Armory aggression causing a war to break out in Odeland, the armory student points out that it was the Concordant Administration - with Baronic backing - that initiated hostilities, and whoops, sounds like a duel

sinful perch
#

or worse, expelled !

neon iris
#

hello

#

just to clarify, what date does Sotw happen?

#

it's written somewhere, i am just missing it unfortunately šŸ˜…

#

oh found it, nvm

neon iris
#

@exotic snow ! what does kuirassers mean

#

someone suggested i asked you, i know the general meaning

exotic snow
#

a kuirasser is the Karrakin term for a mech pilot

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it's more a term that applies to regular pilots, the Karrakin word for a lancer is a "kavaliere"

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if you read Iphianassa's speech, it frames the College's mission as taking kuirassers and turning them into kavalieres - or in other words, taking trained pilots and turning them into the best of the best

neon iris
#

LOL

#

ah isee!

#

cool

#

i need a pdf just of KTB lingo tbh

cinder pike
#

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuirassier

Cuirassier

Cuirassiers (; from French cuirassier [kÉ„iŹasje]) were cavalry equipped with a cuirass, sword, and pistols. Cuirassiers first appeared in mid-to-late 16th century Europe as a result of armoured cavalry, such as men-at-arms and demi-lancers discarding their lances and adopting pistols as their primary weapon. In the later part of the 17th centur...

#

it comes from a cavalry term

#

isnt most Karrakin lingo just bastardized latin and french?

brave wyvern
thorn solar
#

Ooo, are there Berber/Tunisian influences?

void gyro
#

The House of Sand planet, Tilimsan, I believe is supposed to be named after the Algerian city of Tlemcen

thorn solar
#

Man, Tom and Miguel rule.

neon iris
#

I am making a narrative game screen for my shadow of the wolf game, ill probably share it here later if anyone's interested, I just wanted to show off my progress (and maybe get some ideas xD)

MSMC_Skinned_Landing_Page_3.png
hearty karma
#

That's fire, please do

#

Could even highlight the relationship clock's somewhere

neon iris
#

Orange told me ab that today

#

i was surprised too

visual vault
#

Should be "to 0 or less," no?

image.png
#

I vaguely have a recollection that this isn't necessary because you can't reduce damage below 0 in the first place, but I'm glancing through the CRB p.67-onwards and can't find that wording.

visual vault
#

On a more balance-based note, why ranged weapons only? Just for the Dune vibes? It puts it in a rather awkward place compared to the traditional assault hardsuit, since one'd assume not being able to make ranged attacks with it on is a fair trade for its concealability when it's off, and 1d6 is on average equivalent for one hit to 1 armor and +3HP, but it not working at all against melee seems questionable.

exotic snow
# visual vault Should be "to 0 or less," no?

Lancer doesn't really have a concept of negative damage. I don't recall this being made explicit in the rules anywhere but for example, nowhere in the armor rules does it say that damage has a floor of 0. It's just generally assumed that you can't take less than zero damage.

brave wyvern
#

New rule : negative damage is converted to psychic damage directly done to the pilot.

exotic snow
# visual vault On a more balance-based note, why ranged weapons only? Just for the Dune vibes? ...

So the maths when calculating expected-attacks-to-kill is a little complex because it's dependent on the scale of the incoming fire (and, to a certain degree, grit) and which hardsuit you compare it against. Against small arms fire like you'd see from the human or squad statblocks, the shield slightly outperforms an assault hardsuit. Against mech-scale ranged weapons it ends up being marginally worse; it is likely (or guaranteed) to burn out on the first shot, so doesn't provide ongoing reduction. There's also some additional complexity in terms of interactions with AP weapons, and obviously none of this analysis considers melee.

At the end of the day though it doesn't matter much. Naturally I ran the numbers to double check I hadn't accidentally created a monster, but PKS is not intended to be balanced against the hardsuits in terms of raw combat effectiveness. I would say that on balance PKS is often worse than a hardsuit, and this is intentional! The trade-off is that it fulfils a fantasy and lets you do some cool things in narrative play - in much the same way as someone would intentionally choose to take an archaic weapon, or pick miscellaneous pilot gear for flavour over something that has a mechanical effect.

stoic veldt
#

And if I may be frank? Pilot Hardsuits are not really supposed to be in combat too much. Like they exist but if your pilot is regularly taking hits they're in serious trouble. XD

#

So 'precise balance exactly for pilot-only gear' is likely of lower concern. The primary concern is more 'is this a cool thing I want my pilot to use'.

visual vault
#

That's entirely fair! I just had a double-take moment when I was putting it on one of my pilots today, and went "wait, why is this like that". The ranged-weapons-only thing left a bad taste in my mouth even though its mechanics fit the narrative I was going for better (reflavoring for an Aunic thing) than a regular hardsuit, and that seems like the kind of thing it's appropriate to provide feedback on.

exotic snow
#

that's reasonable - as you correctly pointed out that part is absolutely there for the Dune vibes

visual vault
#

I've never actually done pilot combat that wasn't part of an incredibly weird mixed-homebrew technothumb jockey build over many, many hours of Lancer, so I'm fully cognizant of the "this really isn't going to matter in practice" bit. :^)

stoic veldt
#

Honestly, the shields seem heavily to me as a GM to be useful for the narrative excuse of 'why did this guy who wasn't wearing heavy armour not instantly die when my players decided to be murderhobos' šŸ˜›

visual vault
#

Haha, I'm trying to use it for an Aunic Mind casting Protect Self

stoic veldt
#

We don't have much on the books yet about what a mind can do so I'll freely admit I've basicly been giving minds I write like one specific 'theme' for their powers like 'Light of Aun' and going 'Yeah, they run on Touhou rules. If they can think of an excuse it works, I'll allow it'. XD

thorn solar
#

Minds are probably one of the least defined aspects of the setting, so I think you can pretty much put whatever you want and it'll just be like, shrug sure, that works.

#

the shield system should have a rule that if it is hit with a ranged weapon that does energy damage it explodes as if a reactor meltdown

sullen elbow
#

Hello, this is not a particularly important question but is just something I'm curious about. Sorry if this has been asked before. During combats, are the names (ie Praya-Cannamos has "Titan", Argo-Laurent has "Sandman") the names of the mechs or are they the callsigns of the pilots?

exotic snow
#

those are their callsigns, I've not listed mech names because I thought it would be too much information to include

sullen elbow
#

Great, thank you for responding!

thorn solar
#

Awww, but the mech names are the most important part of the character! Do characters really need personal names?

neon iris
#

i mean you're free to make them up šŸ¤·

brave wyvern
#

Will there be official token art for NPCs ?

exotic snow
#

I have portraits for all of the major NPCs and I'd like to provide those portraits for GMs to use when running the game; that said, it isn't necessarily my call to make, so I can't confirm either way just yet. There currently aren't any plans to provide NPC mech tokens.

brave wyvern
#

Thank you for the answer !

hearty karma
#

If I have six players what are people recommendations to balance combat one.

narrow jetty
#

recruit one more person, now you're two GMs for three players each

dapper trout
#

Heya people, couldn't find the answer if this has been asked before but our group was wondering - what does burst 1 on the Hecaton's swarm look like? Is it a burst on the zone? Is it effectively a blast 1 centered on the middle? šŸ¤”

exotic snow
exotic snow
civic thorn
hearty karma
thorn solar
#

Just add an ultra ronin to every combat.

But in seriousness it definitely depends on the skill of your players. If they're pretty comfortable with the system and have optimized builds and stuff, feel free to either add a few more enemies, or upgrade some of the current grunts to full enemies, or even yeah, add veteran, or elite, or ultra to some mix of enemies. Just be aware of what a turn might look like for you/your players with a lot of activations

opaque mason
#

Is the Tara a flying Shrimp? xD

#

It's kinda cute but not what I was expecting ngl

vapid cape
#

Some sort ofā€¦ carithopter

green kayak
#

ALL ABOARD THE HOVERLOBSTER

sinful perch
#

Toccata and Fugue in D Minor starts playing

solar fulcrum
#

I. I love it.

midnight topaz
#

It's fantastic and entirely unexpected

thorn solar
#

It's got the panels like the ships in the matrix had, which rules as well.

final forum
#

The way I see it Tara actually remind me of a Pangolin

#

Loosely of course but that stance and layered plates is what do it for me.

Funky little ant-eating mammal that think it's a dinosaur

#

Friend-shaped

#

I love it ā¤ļø

brazen drum
# final forum

One of out other players said the same, at first my brain screamed dinosaur but pangolin is spot on

final forum
#

I already loved this mech a ton as mechanics wise it feels like the exact kind of mech a Far-field team might use as I was recently considering a character concept studying as a pilot to join a farfield team

#

And then the art is revealed and it's this most friend-shaped of mech ā¤ļø

#

At first I was worried in the preview at the lack of flowery motifs/etc as seen on the Orchis and Calendula but the final result is just plain adorable and almost better for having been without

opaque mason
#

I will always love the Tara but I think I have my issues with the design.
Don't get me wrong, it is a cool and creative design but it kinda misses the beat for me when it comes to it's description. It doesn't look as utilitarian as the description makes it out to be. I can't imagine how a Tara can lift prefabbed buildings while looking like that. Makes the written description and the art feel a little bit disjointed.
Also, I feel like it is looking forcefully IPSN (which makes sense with it being a Lanny alt) but it's also a KTB designed and made mech is it not?

opaque mason
#

It also has some Harrison Armory Vibes to it

#

Mainly in the hands and feet as well as the Cockpit

stray grove
#

it looks fine

exotic snow
#

To be clear the art is finished and has been signed off on by everyone involved, including Tom who obviously gets the final call. If you don't like the art that's fine, people's tastes differ, but it is vanishingly unlikely that any changes are going to be made at this stage

#

Just want to be clear about that since I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea about what to expect; broadly speaking art only gets posted up when it's finished so it's unlikely to change

hearty karma
#

It's perfect

vapid cape
#

Not to force you to justify yourselves, but I am lil curious why you guys went with that color scheme

exotic snow
#

The original brief had it in House of Remembrance colours for obvious reasons, but it didn't quite work out; Naruga went through some other iterations and this is the version he was happiest with

willow sleet
#

I was just about to say... a little curious with the House of Stone colors and emblem when House of Remembrance is focused on in the flavor text

#

I guess it's pretty easy for anyone who wants to do their own recolor and change the emblem if they want

rain jewel
#

honestly I really love how functional the Tax looks, the Orchis and Calendula art is all fancy, almost fantasy esque-mech stuff but they're clearly custom-crafted chassis. I see a lot of interpretations of all baronic stuff being that level of fancy which would be insane for any military and it's nice to be reminded the bulk of Karrakin chassis are likely to be simpler designs.

#

Naruga knocked it out of the park

#

Gildings and engravings give no tactical advantage, embrace hovershrimp šŸ¦ šŸ’Ø

opaque mason
#

Don't take my criticism as me not liking the art haha. I like the art, it looks great and it's both funny and cute. I don't expect anything happening to the art itself. Just giving my two cents to it thats all! If that came over as to harsh or to negative I apologize

thick galleon
#

unsolicited feedback of "not to my preferences" does tend to come off as unnecessary negativity

exotic snow
#

I don't mind criticism if folks have it, and it's totally fine to like it or not like it and voice opinions - I just wanted to set expectations about whether or not any of the feedback will result in changes

floral robin
#

I love the electric fish

willow sleet
#

Generally speaking, I really like the design. I think it's fun, different, and an interesting concept.

That being said, I do actually agree with a lot of Anoth's critiques. The Big 4 have pretty solid cohesive design choices between their frames, while this design seems to depart heavily from previous RKF/KTB designs we've seen, while leaning more IPS-N and even HA.

And just a note, the Orchis, with all of its filigree and decorations, is actually not a custom crafted chassis. It's specifically stated to be the line mech of the baronies and makes up the bulk of their forces. Personally, I always thought that kind of over the top aesthetic was their calling card, because that's just how the KTB rolls.

Not trying to be unnecessarily negative here... again, I actually like the design, generally speaking. And I'm not expecting any changes to be made. But some of the fun with subjective matters like art is the ability for them to spark discussions and hear different opinions.

rain jewel
#

All the art of the player-facing mechs are usually an iconic take on the chassis iirc.

#

not going to pretend to be a lore expert but I'd find it very hard to believe there's hundreds of hand crafted, highly decorated, beautifully engraved Orchis running around the Dawnline Shore, putting hundreds of hours of purely-cosmetic work for something that'll get hit by an Ungrateful missile and explode.

#

imo the Tax looking more like the IPS-N and HA designs is a strength, waging a colonial war isn't elegant, it isn't stylish, it isn't noble. It's going to be brutal and require that utilitarian strength in it's design.

thorn solar
#

I mean, the Tax is half forklift, EV_Forklift and I doubt KTB makes elegant filigreed forklifts.

willow sleet
#

My personal take with the KTB is that they WOULD take the time to highly decorate each of their frames. Their kuirassers taking massive pride in their mech, and wanting to represent their house and their achievements. That's my personal take.

However, the flavor text of the Orchis actually addresses their decorations. I don't know if it's acceptable to straight copy/paste it, but it's specifically stated that each Orchis is decorated by its kuirasser with their house heraldry, war banners, and trophies of past conflicts, with each frame being a resplendent avatar of a decorated warrior. So, while I understand you may have a certain viewpoint, the lore does conflict with that.

#

That is to say, not every Orchis/RKF has to be as decorated as the art in the book, but it does establish the type of relationship the kuirassers have with their mechs.

sinful perch
#

The problem here is that the Tax isn't piloted by Kuirassiers

#

I mean, it is

thorn solar
#

I mean, it makes sense for the orchis to be decorated and fabulous, it's the mech that you want to show as emblematic of your society, it's the honor guard, the warrior poet that the Karrakens consider themselves.

The tax isn't that. It's a forklift, it's an industrial tool, it isn't the warrior.

sinful perch
void gyro
#

to throw my 2 cents in, the taraxacum is appealing to a different fantasy than the orchis and calendula. yeah the ktb is all about the opulence and filligree, but that's a different fantasy that appeals to a certain knight-like aspect that kuriassers see themselves as. the taraxacum on the other hand is a survey mech that's history is storied by the worlds and lands it's trailblazed. the fantasy there is a certain ruggedness that sets it apart from the various other rkf mechs

thorn solar
#

It's the Conestoga wagon

willow sleet
#

Absolutely, I'm merely pointing out that the argument shouldn't be made that the Orchis and Calendula are custom built frames that are very small in numbers, so the Taraxacum can't be decorated in the same way. Because that's not what the lore we have says. That's all.

Although, I'm gonna be honest, I would find it absolutely hilarious and somewhat fitting for the KTB to actually have a filigreed forklift.

fast oar
#

Also

#

I'll say, there's many different "ktb aesthetics"

#

as a setting, it is defined by how wide and multicultural it is

#

There isn't really a singular design for KTB, Atlas could be argued to also cover KTB aesthetics considering it was commissioned by the Baronic Houses of Smoke and Order

willow sleet
#

That's fair. Each House/world does tend to have its own aesthetic to a degree. It's hard to paint the entire KTB with a wide brush. But, I would say there is still some commonality and overlap that is seen in the art.

thorn solar
fast oar
#

I mean the thing is we have actually two examples of KTB mechs outside of the Taraxacum

#

Arguably maybe even 3

thick galleon
#

with more coming

stray grove
#

excited!

fast oar
#

Orchis, Calendula and the Emperor (that one is somewhat dubious considering as far as i'm aware nothing really links it to the KTB much outside of being in the KTB field guide)

void gyro
#

if anywhere is going to move away from the noble image of the ktb, i'd imagine it'd be the planets in the dls, especially since san simeon is a republican house. obviously crossland doesn't have anything written about it, but it wouldn't surprise me that the other ktb planets in the shore have strong republican elements to them

thick galleon
#

but yeah Emperor and WW are also thematically associated by their presence in the guide

fast oar
#

Oh you could probably argue that

#

But they all look VERY different

thorn solar
#

This one orchis looks rather unadorned IMO.

image.png
fast oar
#

So i think getting hung up on how the Taraxacum looks nothing like the Orchis is probably not the most convincing of arguments that the art of the Taraxacum doesn't look like a KTB mech, imo

rain jewel
thorn solar
#

The nice part about shermans is that you can always print more shermans.

rain jewel
#

there's always more shermans

void gyro
#

for better or for worse

rain jewel
#

the ungratefuls ain't gonna compliment how pretty your mech is before they ambush you.

thorn solar
#

There is also another at the beginning of the mech section of the book that also has pretty minimal adorning. Not none, but minimal.

#

I just don't know if I should be posting a bunch of book art.

fast oar
#

The design of the Taraxacum is very streamlined, you can actually see that a fair bit with the design:
-It has a long shape to fit as many hovering devices as possible on its lenght, at least I assume those are ROC
-It has long antennas to represent its ability to scan good and its relay coupling
-Lots of holds for mechs and people alike to grab on, which i'll assume is what it looks like when equipped with Mule Harness
-While the perspective doesn't show it, i'm pretty sure that back is made to hold stuff and transport stuff, you can even notice a latch for a cable winch system between its legs

thorn solar
#

This one doesn't even look like it has a weapon equipped.

rain jewel
#

a handful of book mechs don't (Goblin & Sunzi come to mind) iirc, but yeah excellent points on the Taraxacum art

neon iris
#

I dun get why people wouldn't like it
I personally love it lol
Even if you don't like it, remember flavour is free

compact trellis
#

this is certainly a workhorse mech design, but there is a nonzero amount of like - 'oh this is only there because it's fancy'. the panel edging in gold and light grey, the streamlined, 'clean' look of the superlifters in particular

willow sleet
# fast oar But they all look VERY different

I'd say they still definitely share some design motifs, though. Calendula and Orchis both have hooves for feet and have similar embossments along their body panels. Orchis and Emperor are both very flashy, with the Emperor's sash-thing and the Orchis' ribbons. Not to mention they are both feudal looking, one being an archer boi and the other a sword and board boi (I know that's more a result of their traits, though). Even the WW has some opulence with the ferrofluid imitating a kind of fur neck wrap. The Taraxacum differs quite a bit from these.

And my argument was never that the Taraxacum needs to be flashy or opulent, just that it looks more like an IPS-N frame or HA frame than what we've seen so far from the KTB. At least, in my opinion. If you disagree, that's fine!

But it's all good! As others have said, flavor is free! Anyone can say their mech looks however they want!

compact trellis
fast oar
#

Meaning its not that surprising for the Taraxacum to have the same design elements as, well, an IPSN mech

stray grove
#

long haul sorta things

#

ive seen em on big roads

final forum
#

I'll admit the Tagetes being an House of Glass/Sand mech is one I'm really curious to see the look of

#

I can see it either ways whether it would be utilitarian or heavily adorned so I'm really curious

#

(by contrast and design the hecatoncheires is one I highly doubt will be adorned in any ways since it's whole deal might be that it's might be a Baronic Intelligence creation but is specfically made to appear to be an Horus creation)

willow sleet
#

That's a good point about the Heca, I would expect it to purposely not appear to be affiliated with the KTB. But, it also kinda sounds like it has a very... malleable appearance? So, could be interesting.

Tagetes I'm interested in seeing, as well, since House of Glass, at least seems to be, one of the more opulent houses and are known for pankrati.

Out of all three mechs, though, the Taraxacum definitely gives off the most utilitarian vibes, and that's conveyed well in the art.

vale iris
#

speaking of taraxacum... I had a question about the relay link. It SEEMS like this would be an intended interaction, but idk. #rules-questions message

exotic snow
#

actually scratch that answer, I'm going to need to think on this one

sinful perch
#

What I had the time to read sounded logical, but maybe it's because that was what I was already thinking

exotic snow
#

the issue is that I'm not 100% sure this is a question I can answer, since the result is the same as if there were a chain of metahooks

sinful perch
#

It's an intersting question for sure though

#

Oh right

exotic snow
#

so the ruling would have to be the same in either case, and this potentially has ramifications for CRB rules, which I would have to triple check

sinful perch
#

Yeah, forgot about that side of things

pallid glen
#

question for clarifying the Tagetes' Eterane Construction trait:

When stabilizing, the Tagetes may choose one of the following in addition to other options:

Reload all LOADING weapons
Clear any burn currently affecting your mech
Clear a condition that wasnā€™t caused by one of your own systems, talents, etc.
Clear an adjacent allied characterā€™s condition that wasnā€™t caused by one of their own systems, talents, etc.

Does this give you 3 stabilize options to pick? (The primary stabilize options to clear heat or repair, the first additional options, and then Eterane?)

thorn solar
#

I believe it is essentially, you get one choice from the primary options, and then effectively two choices from that second set of options.

exotic snow
#

Yes, that's correct. It's functionally like getting a second secondary stabilize option

compact trellis
pallid glen
#

Tag is probably my favorite of the sotw mechs, can't wait to see its art

exotic snow
# vale iris speaking of taraxacum... I had a question about the relay link. It SEEMS like th...

Coming back to this with an interim ruling: the extension is not transitive. There's a couple of different (and potentially valid) ways you can interpret the rules here, but I'm going to go with "you may use [...] for tech actions" implicitly referring to tech actions taken by the character, rather than tech actions more generally. The main reasons for choosing this interpretation is because it feels more intuitively correct to me, and it's a little more conservative from a design perspective.

If you choose to rule it differently that's fine (right now I think this is probably not abusable enough for it to matter), but whatever ruling a table uses for Relay Coupling should match the one they use for Metahook. Notably, if Tom decides to clarify that Metahook's range extension is indeed intended to be transitive, that will also apply to Relay Coupling.

hearty karma
#

God Hec is so beautiful

opaque mason
#

It looks really badass

thorn solar
#

These artists can't keep getting away with this.

#

Just making incredible art, indifferent to the dangerous levels of hype it produces.

cinder pike
#

where can I see info on the mechs?

narrow jetty
cinder pike
#

ty

kind aspen
#

Ah, hi Kat, mind if I ask a question about the official art that might be included in the final version?

#

You mentioned already there'd be art for all major characters, and I've seen one about the Stables too

#

But what about the other parts of the school? The Arena, or Lykeon?

exotic snow
#

Conner Fawcett has drawn an amazing campus map and there'll be other illustrations as well as maps for the combats

thorn solar
#

Maps! cat_excite

pallid glen
#

damn Hecatoncheries looks cool, was imagining something closer to a miniature balor but this scratches the itch way better

onyx iris
#

For those who have played Hecatoncheires
what builds/strategies have worked for you?

I have a player interested in it and want to help them make a build (LL8) that doesn't get them splattered
they're interested in using drones and control w/dusk wing stuff

visual vault
#

can't say I've made a build like that

sinful perch
#

All I've done is funni Annihilation Nexus razor swarm

void gyro
#

legion nexus from the gilgamesh could be fun. use assault position to knock enemies prone and keep them in the razor swarm

cinder pike
#

lorewise, how does a KTB chassis designer wrestle with the fact that the Tagetes is based on the HA Sherman on like a moral or pride level?

visual vault
#

it isn't

void gyro
#

it's a sherman alt because that's what it was designed around for the game, lorewise it's a ktb line mech with no relation

cinder pike
#

but mechanically you "get it" by obtaining Sherman Licenses. I know the answer is always gonna be "its a game", but aren't you a little bit curious why it was a Sherman?

#

what reason in-universe could explain the mechanical relation with the chassis of a mech from their foremost rival?

pearl meteor
#

Carcinization

cinder pike
#

so...an accident?

#

A coincidence?

void gyro
#

so it seems that instead of being based on the sherman, it is instead created to be a competitor

image.png
visual vault
#

there is no in-universe reason whatsoever.

void gyro
#

yeah, like licenses in lancer are purely an abstraction of acquiring access to a mech. in-universe the tagetes is not related to the sherman at all other than being designed as a competitor

cinder pike
#

maybe the chief designer was forced to copy the Sherman due to the Baronic Military needing to catch up fast with HA, and then the designers, out of spite, decided to say "f-it, we are going to make the Sherman but better"

visual vault
#

no, that's not it at all.

pearl meteor
#

I'm making a joke about how every build ends up taking sherman for RSU and ASURA ("shermanization"), but I'm also sincerely saying that the canon answer seems to be that RKF arrived at a similar result because they were trying to fill the same basic niche. Carcinization (well, parallel evolution).

floral robin
cinder pike
#

i guess, but I figured there must have been a very good reason as to why a KTB chassis is "similar" or "Compatible" with the licensed gear of their main enemy. I know its just a game, and we can always just push the "reflavor" button, but I like more deep connections with the mechanical choices

void gyro
#

i think theres a misunderstanding here

#

in lore, the tagetes is not related whatsoever to the sherman

#

the fact that the tagetes exists within the sherman license is completely divorced from the lore

cinder pike
#

so why is it a sherman alt?

#

Why!

void gyro
#

because the bundle of mechanics that is "the tagetes" fits the systems and weapons of the "sherman license"

#

its not that the rkf took a sherman and redesigned it

cinder pike
#

ok...how would a person from the KTB explain this to a fellow lancer?

void gyro
#

theres nothing to explain

#

the tagetes exists as its own thing in universe

#

it doesnt exist within an in-universe "sherman license"

#

like, the armory isnt packaging a tagetes within the sherman license

cinder pike
#

I know the armory isnt using Tagetes, I am asking why the KTB is making the Tagetes this way

#

i dont care about the Armory

void gyro
#

do you mean that the tagetes can use sherman equipment?

cinder pike
#

yes

visual vault
#

it doesn't

void gyro
#

i dont think the tagetes is being specifically designed to accomodate sherman equipment

cinder pike
#

yes it does

visual vault
#

it uses things the KTB came up with that vaguely correspond to things the sherman can also do

cinder pike
#

its an Alt

void gyro
#

again youre misunderstanding

#

the gameplay concept of an "alt" is completely divorced from the "lore"

#

that might be unsatisfying as an answer

visual vault
#

the sherman does not have an exclusive, in-perpetuity attachment to everything that stabilizes your reactor

void gyro
#

but lancer is not a game that cares about diegesis

cinder pike
#

well, I do.

#

I was asking for in universe reasons

visual vault
#

šŸ‘ then come up with whatever you want.

void gyro
#

in-universe the tagetes is as compatible with sherman equipment as much as any engineeer/pilot is going to want to modify their mech

cinder pike
#

I was asking for suggestions from you all as well

sinful perch
#

SOME alt frames do have tie-ins to their origin frame, but it's not a requierment

final forum
#

This more or less.

Sherman is essentially "Harrison Armory medium laser mech gear"

Tagetes is just "Karrakin Royal Foundry medium laser mech and gear".
They essentially produced equivalent tech of their own, maybe in response to the Sherman, but narratively it's all KTB gear.

The only thing is that they didn't provide the names for whatever is the KTB answer to the Andromeda heavy laser rifle.

In fact i'd say that the Fusillier trait implies it has many many bespoke line of equipment and mods and is essentially a license to flavor all of your gear with your own names to explain why you have, say, a heavy rifle firing seeking explosive projectiles (essentially having turned the gandiva launcher into a rifle)

fast oar
# cinder pike so why is it a sherman alt?

These "in universe" solutions are best done at your own table or elsewhere, "this doesn't feel like it should be a sherman alt because of lore reasons" isn't really feedback that can reasonably be acted on

storm trout
#

I personally headcanon'd it as "this is the licenses that would give the closest analogues to what this RKF mech can do"

pearl meteor
#

I think that's pretty much the canon explanation as well

neon iris
#

this isn't even anything new lol
the black witch alt frame, the name escapes me, lore wise is completely divorced from the actual black witch

#

at least i remember it so, i may be wrong

visual vault
#

orchis

neon iris
#

yes, funny shield man

visual vault
#

that said, it's funny you choose that as the example because that is an alt-frame that explicitly mentions license commonality

neon iris
#

bwoh, i was mistaken then xD

neon iris
visual vault
#

it really isn't, yeah

civic thorn
#

Taraxacum isn't Lancaster, Karrakin mod, it's a skycrane AWACS thing that naturally is good at hauling and carrying stuff. Similar role to Lancaster while having different origins.

willow sleet
#

I find this conversation interesting because when the art for the Taraxacum was released, multiple people used arguments that the Taraxacum SHOULD look like an IPS-N frame, because it is a variant frame of the Lancaster. Yet, nowhere in the Taraxacum flavor text does it say it's actually based on the Lancaster. Now, it's being argued that a variant frame isn't related to its original frame at all in any way, unless the flavor text explicitly states so.

I think if nothing else, it's clear there's enough ambiguity that it should be acceptable for people to inquire about how the variant frames should be explained in lore, and that there probably isn't a 100% right or wrong answer.

Also, I disagree with the argument that licenses are purely a meta construct. It's pretty well established in the book that the licenses are, in-universe, what grants pilots the ability to print respective mechs and equipment from a given manufacturer. It's even stated: "Each manufacturer also
offers unique core bonuses that become available when you have taken three license ranks from their catalog, rewarding you for your loyalty." That doesn't sound purely meta to me. That sounds like an in-universe explanation as to why everyone can't just print whatever they want, along with the idea that manufacturers, in-universe, reward loyal patrons.

All that being said, this conversation probably belongs in another channel.

vapid cape
#

Honestly in terms of diegesis, the original Wallflower alt-frames are the most problematic cohort, because would players of most campaigns have access to mechs that have been left behind- or created in their present form- on an obscure and forgotten planet?

thorn solar
exotic snow
#

I can clarify that the Tagetes is a Sherman alt primarily because of the mechanical tools the license gives, which felt like a good match for the sort of things I wanted the frame to be focused on mechanically. I briefly considered a few other licenses, but this was by far the best fit and that seemed to be borne out in playtesting.

If you need an in-character explanation for why the Sherman and Tagetes use similar weapons and tools, it's because the Tagetes was designed as a Sherman competitor - explicitly benchmarked against the Mk 1s and given a similar battlefield role, because pilots wanted something that could reliably go toe to toe with and outmatch one of the frames they were most likely to encounter on the battlefield.

vapid cape
#

Do you imagine there being an ersatz ASURA to round out the kit?

exotic snow
#

It's not something I put specific thought into, but it's a distinct possibility! It also wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility that some pilots just have regular ASURA copilots, since the class is already well suited for the role and it's not like Armory licenses aren't available in the Baronies

#

I don't want to be prescriptive when it comes to NHPs for obvious reasons

storm trout
#

And Taraxacum being an alt of Lancaster also makes sense. They both generalist support mechs, just do their things differently with Lannie prefering to heal allies while Tara prefers to carry them, and it's not like Tara wouldn't have ersatzes of Restock Drones or Aceso Stabilizer

storm trout
#

A second Crack Shot-inclined mech?

thorn solar
#

But also, any mech can mount any gear. And since KTB doesn't actually have a full on big 4 manufacturing treatment, they're going to have to be placed in the other manufacturers wherever it makes sense to fit them.

exotic snow
storm trout
#

I see

exotic snow
#

There were a few different approaches I tested in trying to make that fantasy work. An early design we played around with was a version that made its weapons loading as a cost of the conversion to rifle. That didn't survive long in testing because it ended up being much too significant of a drawback for weapons which didn't already have loading, and pigeonholed the mech more than I was comfortable with. In the end the mech ended up leaning more into the other quasi-"reload" mechanic which is heat generation/clear - that felt much nicer to play with in playtesting, and made other aspects easier to design (the core active dovetails in nicely, for example).

storm trout
#

I could see the vision with giving reload as a conversion cost (if this was around the time that it was decided on it being a Sherman alt), what with Sherman being a mech that plays around with Stabilize a lot already, but as you said it's understandable why that idea was nixed early.

visual vault
#

I'm surprised it was considered a drawback - at LL2-3, I presume?

exotic snow
#

at higher LLs too. Adding loading makes any weapon extremely action intensive; playtesters tended to just pick weapons that were already loading so they could benefit from the additional power budget that those weapons were designed with

stark horizon
#

Being a Sherman alt means you're likely going to have the tools to work around Loading more efficiently later down the line anyway, but it is still a build commitment to do so (and Sherman's own option for Loading efficiency is very committal in SP cost), and if the focus is supposed to be on Rifles specifically already, adding Loading is just an additional layer of "commit to this if you want to play this mech"

compact trellis
#

that makes sense - adding loading to weapons that don't normally have it isn't worth the benefit of those weapons now working with crack shot.

#

(unless you add a lot of other power, but, it's just accuracy.)

#

(especially considering that losing the weapon type to change it to a rifle is also a cost.)

rain jewel
#

kinda. crack shot is one of the better weapon talents. accuracy, damage, CC, it's pretty strong.

thick galleon
#

still a cost compared to keeping both types

rain jewel
#

Lancer also recognizes that it's weapon classes aren't created equal, see all the Nexi stuff being a bit lacking in exchange for the absolutely cracked Centimane

compact trellis
#

I mean yeah it can often be a positive trade, it's just still a very real cost buildwise

kind aspen
neon iris
#

Hello! if Kat or anyone else wants to answer this feel free but ...
Wasn't there a table in the book that explictly told you what every student would pilot if they were friend / foe npcs in combat?

#

I know the book does tell you when they appear in combat, such as Praya, but i remember there being a completely different table displaying all of them

#

and im wondering if i just imagined it cuz i cannot find it

brave wyvern
#

In the second combat of the first mission, the OpFor is like half the students you meet as PCs iirc

neon iris
exotic snow
neon iris
#

i was asking because, in a certain combats, it says a student with a good relation can jump in to help as a npc, so i guess i assumed there was a table for every student npc and their build when on the pc side

exotic snow
#

but yes, generally the various students pilot their own mechs when you face them (with the exception of ||Rawan and Tomas in Combat 5 who are being forced to use different gear||)

neon iris
exotic snow
#

||you're not intended to give them PC builds||

neon iris
#

||due to the pcs having their own factions to back them up, it's absolutely possible that during the test combat, aka the first time a npc jumps in, a student doesn't come to help, but instead a pilot npc from their specific faction ||

#

so basically i was hoping there was a table with all the builds to ease up my own workload XD

#

but that's my own problem not really one with the book

exotic snow
#

sorry I'm a bit confused by what you're asking for, there is a table

#

p59 of the last public draft

#

or were you looking for something different?

neon iris
#

oh! there it is!

#

no that's,,, all i needed lol, thank u

#

maybe i wasn't explaining myself sorry
I KNEW i saw it before lol, just couldn't find it

floral robin
#

patiently waits for release šŸ˜„

neon iris
#

was it announced??

thick galleon
#

no

neon iris
#

ah i see

#

first proper session tomorrow with my gang

#

i feel woefully unprepared

#

xD

exotic snow
#

Hey gang, just a quick heads up that if you have any last pieces of playtest feedback you want me to look at, send them in soon. We're moving to editing shortly and it will rapidly become harder to make further changes

stoic veldt
#

Makes sense. There is cutoff points development-wise

exotic snow
#

Also just to clarify that there won't be any further playtest docs. This has actually been the case for a while because despite having made some changes I was expecting to move to editing a bit sooner than this (the effort required to produce playtest docs is wasted if we're going to begin editing shortly thereafter). Fortunately the nature of the changes is such that a mix of internal testing and public feedback on the older version is sufficient to evaluate them - they are not substantial overhauls, just tweaks

#

as a personal aside it is wild to me that I've been working on these mechs for over a year now, I'm very glad to finally be able to push them across the finish line

stark horizon
#

Excited for the final product!

brave wyvern
#

Sadly my playtest of SotW is in a hiatus due to an absence of one player, I hope I can finish at least Mission 1. I'm gonna do my best to wrap around all my feedback.

#

Good luck for the editing anyway !

#

I was hoping I had more time.

neon iris
#

Good luck Kat!

narrow jetty
#

my feedback is that I think you're cool and that you should feel cool

kind aspen
#

My feedback is that my players are having lots of fun forcing Praya to apologize after literally cooking her with Chumulangma

#

As was the stakes set before the duel, so all in all, all is well!

hearty karma
#

My players were buzzing after session 1 - got session 2 today so I am HYPED

neon iris
#

good luck!

#

it's the first fight right?

hearty karma
#

I squeezed a few extra side scenes into session 1 with Combat 1!

Now they are going to actually go to class šŸ’€

neon iris
#

you didn't spend a lot of time at the party at all uh

exotic snow
hearty karma
neon iris
#

i see

#

my first session ended with the pcs beating Praya in a duel and bringing Gawran and another pc to the infirmiry

hearty karma
#

The way it ended up both Argo and Praya were in the initial pilot duel.

Both of my players rolled nat 20s so it was really an epic moment - I know Lancer doesn't have crit successes but it was too good to resist such a memorable time

neon iris
#

Lol!

#

i used dnd bar fight rules to run the duels

#

one of my pcs started strong but unfortunately lost to praya

#

the gay snake got Praya on her ass in the later duel

exotic snow
#

(just a gentle reminder that if y'all want to have an extended discussion about stuff in the narrative, for the comfort of other folks please use ||spoiler tags|| or alternatively there's #1196194635341639710 for more in depth stuff)

#

(don't want to police it but I know there are quite a few folks who have held off on reading narrative stuff either because they want to wait for the final release or because they are hoping to play at some point)

neon iris
#

sorry ab that

#

i got carried away, imma be careful ab that from here on

hearty karma
#

Has there been more consideration on where to put the syllabus class examples?

exotic snow
#

that's something we'll get to when we get to editing

hearty karma
#

When adding feedback threads for ongoing campaigns should we ping you Kat?

exotic snow
#

you can do, but don't feel obliged, I check through the feedback threads anyway

calm badge
#

sees Tagetes art
[Cabal Stomp intensifies]

zinc plank
#

The Hecatonceries can still by its current wording place the nanite clouds into the air

exotic snow
#

yeah that's being changed

#

current wording is going to require the area to be valid (though not necessarily free, just containing no hostile characters)

civic thorn
#

Being able to place it directly on top of yourself and allies is very convenient instead of "no characters period".

solar fulcrum
#

Especially if you plan to Hide inside it too.

opaque mason
rare shoal
#

Is Hecatoncheires' "Smoke and Mirrors" Trait meant to prevent enemies from removing the Hidden status from it, or only meant to make Hecatoncheires able to gain the Hidden status when it would otherwise be prevented from doing so?

civic thorn
#

The latter.

#

It can still be revealed normally via any of the criteria that breaks Hidden. Hecatoncheires just can specifically hide in zones of soft cover when it otherwise wouldn't be able to (due to certain NPC traits or Engagement)

sullen venture
#

alright ive got a question

#

how does taraxacum relay coupling interact with blinkshield?

civic thorn
#

If you mean

  • link sensors with an ally
  • someone activates blinkshield to cut off taraxacum and the ally from each other
    Then Relay Coupling probably just does nothing. I think blinkshield's "no effect or thing can pass this bubble" aspect trumps shared sensors.
rare shoal
#

What happens when Blinkshield intersects Hecatons razor swarm

compact trellis
#

presumably, the same thing that happens when you do that to a Hive's razor swarm.

#

(I don't know if anyone has ever adjudicated that either.)

#

my best guess is that since it is a blast 1 area, spaces that would 'cross' the blinkshield from the center are ignored.

pallid glen
#

Tagetes looks awesome.

thorn solar
exotic snow
# exotic snow Hey gang, just a quick heads up that if you have any last pieces of playtest fee...

Hi gang, for transparency's sake I wanted to let you all know that we've begun the editing process. The reason I mention this here explicitly is because I'm making the call to step away from actively fielding feedback and questions until we're done. If you have playtest data you haven't posted you are still welcome to do so (and, knowing me, I will probably still read it), but my focus is going to be elsewhere.

Partly this is so I can focus as much as possible on the editing, which from experience is a pretty gruelling process to push through - especially given my disability. I want to commit as much effort and energy to the editing process as possible because I know how invaluable it is to the quality of the final product. The other reason I'm doing so is because I desperately need a break for my own mental health; dealing with significant and unremitting toxicity off-server has pushed me into a really bad place over the last six to nine months and doing this helps me draw a line under that.

I want to thank everyone who took the time to run playtest games and campaigns, to engage with the content critically and productively, and to communicate your feedback through threads or via DM. The book is substantially better because of all of your input, and I'm very grateful to have a community here who are willing to take the time and effort needed to test things and then talk with me about them. I appreciate you all a great deal.

stoic veldt
#

Final Feedback: Is Very Cool. Look Foward To Seeing.

brazen drum
pastel hawk
#

So, this was sorta asked but it wasnt really exactly the same question i have here:
could i take a stabilizer mod from monarch 2, put it on a launcher or cannon, then make it a rifle with a tagetes?
looking it over i think you cant??

pearl meteor
#

tagetes doesn't let you put mods on a rifle unless they're compatible with rifles.

desert remnant
#

I eagerly await to see what the final version of the hecatoncheires looks like

#

In both stats and art

thick galleon
#

The art is up

#

#new-content-resources message

fathom root
#

The art absolutely fucks. Best design, imo.

desert remnant
#

Oh that is amazing

civic thorn
#

Its stats and traits are locked in as well, iirc.

exotic snow
#

Nothing is "locked in"

desert remnant
#

Oh, one question I did have about the heca's razor swarm: Do you need to pick it up to redeploy it, or by redeploy does it mean you can just drop it anywhere within sensors with one quick action?

rare shoal
#

Redeploy means put it anywhere within sensors

desert remnant
#

Thanks

hearty karma
#

Can the Tagetes change a fuel rod gun or data dart into a rifle with its Trait?

It seems to be able to

pearl meteor
#

integrated weapons can't be modified, so FRG is out. I'm less familiar with third party, but that'd probably invalidate data dart as well

rare shoal
#

yeah integrated weapon non-modifiable clause must apply to Tagetes as well

swift pollen
#

If the Tagetes makes an attack with a Howitzer and consumes lock on, does it become range 25 even if there is no lock on consumed on other targets?

compact trellis
#

I believe the answer has been yes - lockon was consumed, so you can fire it out to range 25 regardless of who else is being affected.

swift pollen
#

nice, thanks

sinful perch
#

Would choosing an ally for Neurospike's mirage option trigger relay coupling ?

#

I feel like no, but it would be cool, so

floral robin
civic thorn
#

Mirage is an invade option, so you have to Invade the ally in order for relay coupling to trigger. Invading an ally with mirage is rarely useful though as you can only make them count as invisible to another ally/yourself.

crystal laurel
#

Anti-Witch strats

desert remnant
#

Soo I got to do a little bit of testing with the new bonds. One that two people ended up picking up was firebrand.

#

I found their solidarity ability to be a bit strong, namely because it has no limit bar stress.

#

So as long as you had stress you could just dish out +2d6 accuracy to anyone

#

And cus we had two- that was 4d6 for 2 stress

#

I think if this goes live, limiting it to 1/scene or something may be good.

#

Namely because there's no specifications for it like Rival or whatever, it's just..You just do it as part of something you'd normally do.

thick galleon
#

#homebrew-design would be a better spot for that

rare shoal
#

If a Hecatoncheires is grappling someone while in an area of soft cover, and then attempts to hide, what happens

#

Normally the only thing preventing you from that is the clause about engagement

pearl meteor
#

yup, works how you want it to work.

rare shoal
#

That doesn't answer my question

#

Are you saying you can grapple while hidden

pearl meteor
#

yes. you can hide in an area of soft cover, and while normally being engaged would be a problem hecatoncheires doesn't care.

rare shoal
#

That sounds wrong

#

This would mean that spectres can also hide while grappling you using prowl

thick galleon
#

Why not?

pearl meteor
#

Prowl "ignores engagement" for movement purposes, not for hiding. It does work, though, because the Specter isn't taking the Hide action, it's just gaining the Hidden condition. Hidden itself doesn't care about engagement.

rare shoal
#

That sounds unintended

pearl meteor
#

(it'd still need to Prowl into soft cover or something, otherwise it'd lose Hidden immediately to LOS while it grappled someone)

rare shoal
#

Spectres can go invisible

pearl meteor
rare shoal
#

Actually this doesn't work

#

Because invisible says you can Hide (the action) without cover, and doesn't mention Hidden

#

And Hidden the status doesn't mention invisibility

#

So if you become Hidden without using the Hide action, invisibility doesn't prevent you from losing hidden due to being out of cover

pearl meteor
#

If you want to talk about how specters work, you should take it to #rules-questions so that we stop getting people excited for SotW content

rare shoal
#

Well this is still about Hecatoncheires

#

The Spectre thing was a tangent

civic thorn
#
  • To HIDE, you must not be ENGAGED and you must either be outside of any enemiesā€™ line of sight, obscured by sufficient cover, or invisible.
  • If you are INVISIBLE, you can always HIDE, regardless of cover, unless youā€™re ENGAGED.
  • The Hecatoncheires can always Hide in an area of soft cover, regardless of Engagement or enemy traits and systems.
  • The Specter moves spaces equal to Speed, then becomes Hidden. This movement ignores engagement and doesnā€™t provoke reactions.
  • The Specter is permanently Invisible.

If not intended, it's rules-consistent. A Hecatoncheires can indeed Grapple -> Hide while in a zone of soft cover unlike every other mech, because while normally you cannot Hide while Engaged (even if invisible) the Hecatoncheires ignores that due to the trait. In the case of the Specter's Prowl it should allow it to become hidden outside typical Hide action restrictions (LOS/engagement/cover/invisibility) which does mean it can Grapple -> Prowl, though like Hecatoncheires it must still meet the criteria to stay hidden (be invisible, be in soft cover, engagement doesn't matter still).

brave wyvern
#

Hi, will there be an offical logo representing the BUC in the book ?

kind aspen
hearty karma
#

Oh I'd love a school logo that I can copy paste into document to give my players

tight skiff
#

Do the Lock On effects of the XC-BR Battle Rifle and Tagetes' Tempeste Long Scope stack?

delicate bramble
#

ooo, haven't thought of that - I do not see why not.

tight skiff
#

Meaning that as long you consume the lock-on you could attack a character as if it was Range 20?

willow sleet
#

Just to clarify, Tagetes' Fusiller trait only applies Overkill to weapons that were changed to a Rifle, correct? It doesn't apply Overkill to existing Rifle weapons?

tight skiff
#

No, rifles you equip don't automatically gain Overkill

ivory laurel
#

But I believe they may if you want them too.