MAGNAGOTHICA MALEGHAST

[pseudo flicker]

ANOTHER A4

[pseudo flicker]

power metal would probably be out of place vibe wise imo

there are like
2 directions power metal goes

the one that sounds like blind guardian

and then everything that doesnt

[glacial junco]

37 game recorded woo! Stats and data and notes

[pseudo flicker]

but even then power metal prefers clean vocals which doesnt really sound like something goregrindery

[umbral cipher]

I ascribe vibes on a song to song basis

Genre means nothing to me

[primal nest]

Real

[pseudo flicker]

genre is a spook

[umbral cipher]

genuinely what even is genre how do you define this shit
its nonsense

[pseudo flicker]

the difference between todays sabaton and blind guardian is immense for example xd

[umbral cipher]

I'm a spook and I will be the stronger

[pseudo flicker]

most of the music i listen to i dont even put into a genre too

spotify keeps trying to do so and my overview last year apparently said that i listen to a lot of neofolk, jazz (what), ""indie"" and otacore

[umbral cipher]

otacore is such a cursed name for a genre

[devout pulsar]

otacore the subgenre of nerdcore hiphop or otacore the metal subgenre

[umbral cipher]

And hey jazz is good

[pseudo flicker]

it labels ghost and pals as otacore, so vocaloid stuff

[candid monolith]

I will simply call all music jazz

I refuse to be corrected

[umbral cipher]

Otacore is just 'nerd music'

Far as Spotify is concerned anyhow

[pseudo flicker]

jazz in question is this
https://youtu.be/qgt1oibtp50?si=shCvlXKPxdTdRipE

[candid monolith]

I am only now learning this term exists

[umbral cipher]

Very fair

[pseudo flicker]

[devout pulsar]

nah nerdcore gets it's own tag i believe

[candid monolith]

Also "fast cyborg skeleton who might be on fire" I think even if I listened to zero metal my choice would be made for me

[umbral cipher]

I don't listen to metal much

But I do really love digging up theme songs and vibes for things

[devout pulsar]

i only listen to bad music

sorry

[candid monolith]

Incorrect you've shown me some cool shit

[umbral cipher]

Get well soon

[umbral cipher]

I also put way too much damn thought into it sometimes

tried making a playlist for a PC and spent like an hour trying to figure out what songs matched the vibe just right

[devout pulsar]

no such thing as too much thought

[candid monolith]

I'm still considering what heresy would go well with my love of painwheel

I'll let it happen eventually

[devout pulsar]

i'm much more in favour of fucking with malice over heresy

and i think if you're snagging a single unit from a faction the freak is usually the best

[glacial junco]

Freak or horror for sure

[tulip crane]

Every faction lacks one specialty. There may be something to gain by grabbing the one you lack to cover a weakness.

[devout pulsar]

not an unreasonable opinion

[tulip crane]

You may also want to lean into something that deals magic or physical damage depending on matchup and etc.

[glacial junco]

Gargamox says "tyrant? Nah not immune to harzards

/s.

But honestly idk which tyrant would work best. I guess holy body but

Or egis just for a GUN

[tulip crane]

Unfortunately. That being said, a Holy Body could help with their squishyness.

[primal nest]

Probably holy body

Has hazard gen and gives out vit on an already pretty Tanky faction

[glacial junco]

Make your thralls just a bit more scary/make your big bois absolutely nightmarish

[tulip crane]

Oh yeah? Mox are tanky in practice? I remember thinking their stats were on the lower side.

[primal nest]

Their defenses are average

Over half of turn units just have a form of armor

They are not as tanky as like abhorrers but it does the job

[proven flame]

FOUND THE NEXT PIECE TO THE COMBO

we are at 9 damage from 4 sources, 1 physical, 1 physical but it ignores armor, and 2 magical

1 vulnerable and its the oneshot on a 10hp necro

[devout pulsar]

at the cost of

[proven flame]

a lot gdfkjgnfdjgf

but still

its all worth it for the funny

i mean, not too much actually
4 strength and 1 berserk token, which in Igorri terms isnt actually a whole lot

[tulip crane]

Don't let your memes be dreams. Go for the unreliable inadvisable strat. Make it a match you won't forget (if you pull it off).

[proven flame]

even if it messes up, you're still swinging for a huge chunk of damage off your necro, so they can one-turn almost anything including a tyrant

ancillary + pilebunker is worth it just for the free +1D to make pilebunker accurate, which it def needs

[tulip crane]

Make it a match your opponent won't forget.

[proven flame]

recycle also works to finish off a necro

i just NEED to pull off the necro oneshot

this triggers strength right?

[devout pulsar]

yes

[proven flame]

9 damage in one turn, then the extra 2 at the end of next turn

because you cant use more than one soul ability per turn aack

homonculus is plan B. chop doc is my second source of magic damage via scour flesh

[glacial junco]

Now how much soul does this cost

[proven flame]

recycle is 3 soul
hellrider kick is 1 soul

its a bit of a soul sink, especially considering youre already spending 3 soul to sample genome, but

doable

[glacial junco]

So 7 total 9 if you want to accellerate it with some wild mutation

[proven flame]

my strat so far has been chop doc marriages one of the stiches while the other stitch run forward and gets itself killed while stalling the enemy for a second

so 2 soul easy, and the +1 from turn start gets 3 soul on turn 2.

mmmm

the problem is i cant find any other reliable sources of bonus damage
vulnerable isnt really an option, so the only other source is soul abilities
hellrider kick is good for that
this actually gives enough to kill a carcass necro now

for only 1 soul

everything else will require the extra 3 souls for recycle

we finally found it

the igorri counter to carcass.

[proven flame]

or just the homonculus to roll in and finish them

maybe the strig too

[tulip crane]

Charge in, kick, and pilebunker? I can't believe you can do a Rubiconian Handshake in Maleghast.

[proven flame]

its a traditional goregrinder greeting

you do an extra slap for good measure too

officially calling it the painwheel combo

[glacial junco]

"Raven are you sure you want to do that?"

ME HOLDING Y+LSCLICK

[proven flame]

i still need to play armored core at some point

i also need to draw heretic necromancers
i want to mix color schemes

[glacial junco]

I feel like with 2 people with #1 igorri we are slowly infecting people

https://tenor.com/view/we-are-number-one-lets-try-something-else-annoyed-evil-robbie-rotten-gif-15296165

My stitches after failing to mutate into splash damage 2 times in a row

[proven flame]

i need to try stitch rush at some point...
10 stitches. they just walk forward and mutate.

thrall rush is such a funny way to play

the only faction i think it wouldnt work with is deadsouls

my gay ass could never be purple and swelling with mutagens <suspiciously mutagen-shaped indent in neck

[spice stag]

<@&1169764878454620231> Duel?

[bright obsidian]

i just woke up from a dream where there was another maleghast update

[pale echo]

What did you see

[bright obsidian]

as soon as i woke up, i imagined a list that's

1xEnforcer ( Bone Dust Napalm )
2xAmmo Goblin
2xPainwheel ( Barbed Wheel )

Operator
Gun Kata
Armor Lock
Quench
Hellrider Kick
Frag Bullet```

[bright obsidian]

no specifics, just checked the itch listing then ran to my housemate's room to tell it there was an update like it was christmas morning and my bf was like 'what the fuck is going on why are you bothering liz' and i told them it was a maleghast and my bf was like 'oh my god i thought something was wrong, i'm going back to sleep'

very realistic dream

[proven flame]

no prophecies.....

[bright obsidian]

as the name may imply, the goblins are there pretty much just for bone shards, everything else is there to do movement disruption. i just really like the idea of hellrider kick->armor lock into a crowd where there's a bunch of bone shards

[proven flame]

oooo wait..
deadsouls with carcass heresy just for the boneshard goblins sounds good...

[bright obsidian]

yeah, bone shards into kidnap into horrendous shriek also sounds good

dark priest with unholy sixgun...

[spiral gale]

painghoul giving vizigheist berserk and strength while also pulling 3...

[lapis willow]

Deadsouls + CARCASS is a list ive been dying to try. closing off lanes to force LOS, kidnapping into Enforcer/goblin krump circles, banshee + barrelform madness...

[bright obsidian]

max value from Maggot Destroyer

[proven flame]

oh that works WAY too good

maggot destroyer seems so underwhelming aack
like, if its against doomed units, theyre gonna die anyway

[soft egret]

Alternatively, breaking all the walls to make LOS

[bright obsidian]

i haven't seen a lot of games go to turn five

i have missed a lot of attacks on turn 3

[lapis willow]

exactly! only on coffee #2 so my words are lacking(:

[lyric fog]

that is too many tokens
put those back

[serene sundial]

No >:]

[fluid trout]

When rezzed, does Holy Body regain Miracle?

[primal nest]

Holy body lacks miracle

[serene sundial]

miracless

[real bane]

If they gain it via antipriest, then I figure it remains yeah

If you mean vitality, then no

[primal nest]

Oh right antipriest gives it yeag

In that case they lose miracle

They lose it at the end of their turn

[real bane]

They do? Isn't the "they lose it at the end of their turn" clause if they already have miracle?

[primal nest]

Actually I don’t know if that applies to both

Cuz the 2+ effect has a clause for ending at the end of their turn

[soft egret]

Does the Stitch Twisting Strike upgrade effect all adjacent allies or just 1?

[primal nest]

Ty tenu that was fast

[primal flame]

I jump at every opportunity I can

[primal nest]

Sounds like multiple

[soft egret]

there are a lot of typos that make some abilities sound more powerful than they are, so it's unclear

[soft egret]

does the Ball of Limbs upgrade let the Homonculous mutate each time it destroys a wall?

[real bane]

Does Recycle have to go on the target unit's turn?

[lyric fog]

My read is "yes" to both.

[fluid trout]

Does Smite boost Graze damage?

[pale echo]

I think so

[real bane]

Curse of Gargamox

[spice stag]

Day 3 of playing Igorri Status Report: They still suck butt

[real bane]

Day 1 of playing Gargamox: Spreader Necrocide makes corpses of men

[glacial junco]

Necrocide will do that

[soft egret]

Really? I find them really strong

[spice stag]

If your going against a House that has armor then your unit have to sacrifice one round to be able to even hit them and if your opponent knows that then they just run your units down.

also they have no resistances so they die pretty easily

[soft egret]

how does cover work with diagonals?

[spice stag]

wdym?

[soft egret]

like, if a unit is diagonally adjacent to a wall, do they get cover from it?

[spice stag]

No they have to be parallel to it

the wall can still block los tho

[tacit cedar]

orthogonal

[soft egret]

I mean, every game of Igori I've played involves spending a turn on set-up regardless

<@&1169764878454620231> anyone for a game? I would like to play Archive if you're okay with it

[next basin]

I mean sure

what is Archive?

[crisp night]

homebrew faction

[soft egret]

do you have TTS?

[next basin]

yes, a R20

[soft egret]

I mean Table Top Simulator (which is a specific virtual table top)

[next basin]

ah, no

[soft egret]

could do R20. If you already have a game set up with tokens for all the units, I can send you pictures for the Archive units

[soft egret]

If you are offering a game, when's good for you?

[next basin]

err, right now

ASAP

[soft egret]

sure

do you have r20 set up? or should I set up for it?

[next basin]

I have one set up

just send me your mass

+tokens for them ig

[soft egret]

want to voice chat? here or DMs?

[next basin]

here if it's okay

[real bane]

agreed

What tokens does Spreading Strain, the Leech upgrade, refer to? The stripped plague? The gained slow or strength? Also, are they copied, or just distributed?

[thick meteor]

For AoEs, does strength/weakness apply to all instances of the damage?

[real bane]

no, one per instance

[lethal trench]

the gained tokens is my read

and since it becomes an Infect, I assume that means it creates multiple tokens now

[real bane]

so for each plague cleared, make an Infect: 1 strength/slow?

[lethal trench]

well, tokens on multiple targets I should say

[real bane]

or distribute up to three of those strength/slows out through three neraby targets

[lyric fog]

My read was that the target removes the plague tokens and gets strength/slow, but instead of the plague tokens going away they spread as an infect?

[lyric fog]

& no, for an AoE you apply one strength/weakness per target in the effect, although if there are more targets than tokens you can decide how to apply them.

[thick meteor]

Cool

One more question: when a unit is pushed/pulled and there’s ambiguity on what the ending square is, who decides? Say a unit 3 spaces up and 3 spaces over, or a unit 3 spaces up and 2 spaces over

[lyric fog]

Pusher/puller.

[umbral cipher]

@primal nest you still down to play some?

[real bane]

So am I misreading, or is Acid Blood into Swell With Corruption as much of a nonbo (on units other than Rotten and Plaguelord) as I think?

[sly vine]

Into the breach?

[real bane]

Nah, though I wish Lanny was in it

[glacial junco]

Lancer frame

[soft egret]

did you hear back from Saltmeister?

[umbral cipher]

I did not, but I was specifically lookin to playtest my stuff with em

[soft egret]

fair

my game went very short and looking for another if anyone <@&1169764878454620231> is up for it

[tulip crane]

Weird question, but who do you people consider the strongest/most "carry-like" Necromancers?

[soft egret]

I think Warlord, Operator, and Chirugeon are all up there

[terse depot]

Operator, and Warlord for raw "kill mans" power

[primal nest]

ye im around

[real bane]

I can personally attest to Plaguelord hauling some ass too

[junior blaze]

operator has crazy kill power

[glacial junco]

Without chirurgeon I feel like most of the stuff Igorri does falls off hard

[primal nest]

i can also attest to plaguelord being scnasty

[junior elbow]

I would put Chirugeon lower than Op and Warlord but yeah those 3 mostly

[junior blaze]

i ran clutch reload frag bullet and double barrel shotgun on operator he kilt

[terse depot]

This is not to say the others aren't good

[primal nest]

although i did wanna work on some art stuff before 8

[terse depot]

But they're less traditionally murderous

[junior elbow]

Tear Soul is absolutely nasty in necro v necro

[terse depot]

Exorcist's Grand Oath being responsible for every schenanigan ever

And Dark Priest being a vehicle for absolutely hideous curses and Souls

I have not played plaguelord but I hear good things

[junior elbow]

Still looking for a match?

[umbral cipher]

Sick! Want to set up via TTS?

[soft egret]

yeah! Do you have TTS?

[junior elbow]

Yup!

Would you be down for Loathing?

[primal nest]

oh i cant run tts

puter hates it

[soft egret]

sure, are you okay if I play Archive?

[umbral cipher]

All good, we can slap something up in roll20 or w/e

[soft egret]

also, VC here or in DMs?

[primal nest]

ye roll20 works for me

[umbral cipher]

Will just need to figure out substitute tokens

[primal nest]

well

[junior elbow]

Vc here, also Archive is cool

[primal nest]

what tokens do you need?

[junior elbow]

I finally located the doc page but didn't get to reading it too thoroughly

[umbral cipher]

Just placeholders for the rickertock units

[real bane]

Behold, the laziest Igorri token set of all time, just actual Loop Hero sprite recolors

[primal nest]

if you got portraits or unit art for them i can whip up something quick

[soft egret]

in HORUS chat, and got a server up, server name is MGM666, PW is lancer

[umbral cipher]

Oh those are adorable

[primal nest]

although we do gotta make it quick. got 2v2 thing with friends in 2 hours

[umbral cipher]

Hmmm, if that's the case then I won't bother you with it tonight

[primal nest]

icic

im def free anytime tomorrow

[umbral cipher]

thankee regardless, yeah

[lyric fog]

Heeee! I dig it

[latent sun]

Loop Hero's sprites are all-around great tbh
like, even though these are super simple, they're also very clear as to what they are, and the simplicity helps to pick them up in the mess that the map can become at times

[tulip crane]

If you like that sort of thing, look up Kenney's 1-bit sprite pack.

[primal nest]

Also yo derp is the rickertock stuff in the homebrew drive?

[prime portal]

How goes fellow necromancers

Anyone got any

[umbral cipher]

Oh, forgor to put them in there, will do

[prime portal]

fan lore

[primal nest]

Yeye. At the very least I can make some roll20 tokens for you in the meantime

[real bane]

Under lenient definitions, these technically run in roll20

[tulip crane]

I like to pretend Scions are Necromancers in training. Guessing why they do what they do and how they go from the unit to the powerful King piece with a page-worth of powers is part of the fun.

Are Penitents being punished for the heresy of necromancy they will eventually commit? Food for thought.

[torn hare]

Here's all the unit tokens with visual stats and little graphical reminders of some traits and whatnot. For those who like visual reminders 🙂
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1HUf8aGsRFg8otoLsT6J8_WS76XfWSpSl

Necromancers aren't in there, I'm wondering if they're just a bit too customizable to make it worthwhile

Also my custom roll20 icons are in there too 👍

[glacial junco]

these icons rule tyty

[lyric fog]

I've seen some people just use the character portraits

[torn hare]

Yeah same, that's a good way to go

[torn hare]

Thanks!

[night hedge]

man igorri are scary to play against

best them as carcass but if i got unlucky with hits they would’ve steam rolled

LV4 cannon didn’t put in work like i was hoping it would

[silk storm]

What seems to be the main igorri strat?

[soft egret]

make a bunch of corpses for the homonculous to schlorp up, then copy all those tokens from the homonculous to your chirugeon

[silk storm]

It doesn't seem like the chirugeon can do much damage, am I wrong?

[soft egret]

not single target damage no, but she has access to a bunch of line effects and the ability to stack a lot of strength

[silk storm]

I see

[umbral cipher]

And they also have easy access to Strength

[silk storm]

Are there any act upgrades that should be avoided, or one that's particularly strong?

Seems like chaos beam is pretty good

[umbral cipher]

I'm a fan of the various injectors

[silk storm]

Biotoxin injector seems fun

And mutagen

[soft egret]

when biotoxin explodes, does it use strength tokens from the exploding unit, or the Chirugeon?

[umbral cipher]

I would presume the Chirurgeon

[silk storm]

@pine crescent Is there a known issue with chirurgeon crashing isocon? Whenever I try to generate it, it softlocks and generates a ton of "Disconnected." messages despite being in local mode.

[pine crescent]

It's not a known issue but I'll definitely look into it

[silk storm]

I'm getting it exclusively when trying to generate Igorri necro, have tried with different names, different art, etc. Is there a way to directly edit unit data?

[pine crescent]

I've found the issue, I think. I'll push an update here in the next hour.

I've rebuilt some stuff in v0.6 that'll make it possible to do data edits without needing players to redownload

but I'll ping you when it's fixed

[silk storm]

Weirdly, there's also no necro option for deadsouls, I just noticed

[silk storm]

Thanks!

[pine crescent]

Likely a similar issue. Should be a quick fix.

[clever latch]

Huh?

Wait

IsoCON maleghast?!

[spice stag]

Quick question. So do all ranged action allow you to target yourself as the unit?

[pine crescent]

Hey what version do you have?

I fixed Chirurgeon but Dark Priest should have been fixed in v0.5.8

oh the pinned message is pointing at 0.5.7

[lyric fog]

I think it would work unless it specifies a minimum range

[spice stag]

This is what I was thinking as well but I just wanted to verify.

That means with chirurgeons Clone action I could obliterate myself then reappear in a different space within range.

[pine crescent]

@silk storm https://github.com/delzhand/isocon/releases/tag/v0.5.9

[grave warren]

that runs into a similar problem as miracle on your necro. Technically you lose the instant you get obliterated

[spice stag]

well in this case I wouldn't because the action states that the clone is created first before the obliteration takes place so I'd still be alive.

[silk storm]

Ahhh ok that's it then

What's the best way to handle corpses on isocon?

[sly vine]

holy shit what's isocon

this looks rad

[pine crescent]

I'll be 100% honest, the v0.5 branch is missing stuff that's pretty essential to maleghast. I've been overhauling things for a few weeks to make things like object/terrain/effects much easier

So it has maleghast support technically but the play experience isn't optimal. For corpses I'd just make a separate token or 3 and swap it out as needed

[silk storm]

Ah okay

[sly vine]

how do you create tokens for maleghat in isocon - need the assets pack tom posted somewhere?

[silk storm]

That's what I'm doing right now, I think trying to use it heavily for maleghast is just exposing bugs

Like this. If you have too many units, the popup blocks the other popup, and if you scroll, the popup doesn't also shift over to match

You can fix by scaling UI tho

[pine crescent]

Yeah I ran into that too. Next big release has a whole new UI for that

In 0.5.9 one thing that should help with that is when your mark a token as ended turn it ought to shift it to the end of the list

[pseudo flicker]

Pondering making rat and bolide themed hazards for tabletop sim

[proven flame]

writing homebrew
im looking over this and thinking it may be too strong as an action? or at least too complicated
the unit can semi-reliably gain strength through another action that gives them weak tokens, and then can convert those weak tokens instead into strength if it has any of the faction's specific tokens (ritual tokens)

heres the entire unit so far aack
ritual is a token that gives +1 defense that goes down when you get hit, and its inverse side is +1D to attacks that goes down when you hit an attack
invert switches all tokens on a unit to their inverse side (vitality becomes vulnerability, strength to weakness, vice versa and etc)

[willow gust]

what's the homebrew faction's aesthetic and theming?

[pseudo flicker]

Looking at the similar ish ability of lycan, yea, thats too much

Debil palm ngl is an even bigger concern

[proven flame]

they are an inverted tower on the underside of the city, reaching downwards to ensure that they are the first thing that will contact hell when the city sinks low enough. this position gives them ample access to devil contracts

[pseudo flicker]

If you have strength, thats 3 devil damage on a 6 from a scion

[proven flame]

see, the balance i saw was like
if you roll 4+, you hit yourself with the splash as well

[proven flame]

fair fair...
though, getting a 6 is a big if
could make it a horror instead?

[pseudo flicker]

Might need to be a bit faster if its an horror, but sure

They dont have defenaive abilities anyway

[proven flame]

mmm but then that also brings into concenr rolling a 6, because then the 4+'s self damage doesnt matter because youre obliterarting anyway

[pseudo flicker]

I would move 6+ effects to an upgrade

2 separate ones, actually

[proven flame]

thats fair

i actually never noticed that every scion is kinda tanky
i just took this line of text as law aack

"oh its just a unit that plays off faction effects"

[pseudo flicker]

Its a tank xd

Dk why tom gave them such a weird description

[proven flame]

melts forever

[pseudo flicker]

Tbh the upgrades rn could be just

Upgrade 1
Rebind gives 1 weak AND 1 slow

Upgrade 2
Devil palm on a roll of 6+ deals devil damage instead of curse

Upgrade 3
on a roll of 6+ deals 1 devil damage etc etc

[proven flame]

the ideas i had were
Waiting Devil Kata (1)
Starts the game with an additional 1 slow, weak, or vulnerable

Knower of Ways
may choose which tokens to invert (note: all tokens on a character change when they invert)

Pact Breaker
may obliterate an adjacent ally before ACTing to set the effect dice to 6 on their action (in retrospect, this poses issues gfdkjgnfdjgf yeah this one can change)

change pact breaker with either upgrade 1 or 2

and remove the normal 6+ effect on the attacks aack

[rancid girder]

knower of ways strikes me as way too good

[proven flame]

the purpose of the master of lies is sort of a tricky quick-damage unit
meant to basically rush down one enemy, maybe two, and then die

[rancid girder]

devil palm I think is fine on a scion since most of the scions have a way to deal two damage and it's pretty squishy

imo you'll probably just need to run a couple of playtests and see what happens

[proven flame]

will need to playtest this aack
i wrote every unit in a few hours while waiting for jury duty gjkfnhkjfg

yeah knower of ways make it a bit too strong...
maybe remove the ability to gain vitality at all would make it usable
no more self-vulnerable, just self-weak and self-slow

better idea

[elfin ermine]

Will Wood jumpscare + nice music taste

my friends unfortunately call it "funky white boy circus music" or "that emo guy" instead of jazz rip

[proven flame]

fglkjhfgkl

why not both?

funky white boy jazz

[elfin ermine]

true and wise

I dont even think of Self-ish as jazz lol

it might be!

idk genre

[proven flame]

||all i know is that when that funky white boy sings i cant help but scream the lyrics gfkjdnfjgh||

[elfin ermine]

yeah this is a little wordy - I had to read it like 5 times to get it

[elfin ermine]

TRUE!

[proven flame]

okay
now
we have reliable attack
risky attack
no more vulnerable/vital generation

will still have to playtest Pact Breaker but i think it may work

effects that come after a period always trigger, even if you didnt roll the high enough result on the effect dice, right?

[rancid girder]

that's really good though

[devout pulsar]

We have a home brew thread

[rancid girder]

turn one pop rebind and flip three weak turn two really either attack will do a ton of damage

and-yeah

[proven flame]

i mean, igorri does the same thing aack

with more survivability

could start with only 1 token + ritual

[rancid girder]

fair

[umbral cipher]

https://discord.com/channels/426286410496999425/1170699117454962848 for reference

[proven flame]

oh theres a homebrew forum gkjdfhgnfjhkgf

sorry sorry

[willow gust]

it is hard to tell what forums exist at a time tbh

you need to check tabletop forum and I don't think it's wrong to assume that homebrew would go here

[proven flame]

oh my theres so many gfjkdhgbfdjkghfd

[silk storm]

Game ended start of round 4 via:

1. Chirurgeon toxic mutagen on the Exorcist (Round 3 ends)
2. Chop Doc sacrifices Strigoi to grant Chirurgeon 2 of every token (Round 4 start)
   2.5. Exorcist social distances itself to avoid toxic mutagen
3. Chirurgeon consumes 5 stength, 4 mutations, and 2 soul to nuke Exorcist with Experimental Surgery

Abhorrer was convinced I was focused on rerouting the homunculus to kill the holy body after I Sample Genomed onto it, and didn't see the Chirurgeon coming

Started as a 4 person FFA, so that's why my homunculus looks like it was sitting so far in the back lol

[soft egret]

How are you consuming so much Strength with experimental surgery?

[night hedge]

yeah it’s only one strength applied per instance of damage

so two damage per hit max with no vulnerability with experimental surgery

[cinder isle]

i think the only thing that can spend multiple str tokens at once without multihit is the warlord's spine blade, yeah?

[next basin]

yes

has anyone yet run an ULTRAHELL mission yet? And if so, any tips?

cause I've got my first lined up soon

[subtle nest]

wut vtt

[pseudo flicker]

Any ideas on how a bolide made hazard could look like?

[primal flame]

Like visually?

Maybe a smoldering star shaped crater or something. Bolides are usually meteors that are real bright

[cinder isle]

that's ISOCON

[subtle nest]

Neat

is it free

[cinder isle]

yes

it's got a github download

[subtle nest]

is there a "but"

oh cool

[cinder isle]

a link's somewhere around on this channel

as well as in the icon resources channel, probably

ah, it's in pins here

[subtle nest]

neat

[cinder isle]

https://github.com/delzhand/isocon/releases

[subtle nest]

thanky

[silk storm]

Oh I did not know that you could not spend multiple strength at once lol

Where is the rule that says you can't spend multiple

[tacit cedar]

strength is never something you spend

all tokens have a static effect and a situation in which you are forced to discard them

pg. 18

[glacial junco]

Ok good when I read that report I got worried lmao

i was also wondering what you used Bonus Limbs on

oh toxin injection

my b

[silk storm]

Okay this makes sense now lol

[next basin]

first ULTRAHELL write up!

I wish it was more exciting

[glacial junco]

Looks like grinders got in and crushed some skulls

What was your list?

[crisp night]

im trying to imagine what a heresy necro for each house combo would look like

abhorrers and gargamox is a very funny mental image

goop punk priest

igorri and grinders is a fun one; mutant and metal combined as one

[open vessel]

igorri and abhorrer is just a biblically accurate necromancer with multiple glowing eyes and wings and hands, and a halo obviously

[glacial junco]

Igorri and Abhorrer are DMC/bayo angels/devils

[crisp night]

so true

[glacial junco]

Buglike or seraph but alien ish

[crisp night]

igorri and gargamox would be another capcom franchise (resident evil)

holy body is just a really juiced tyrant

umbrella figured out how to put the light of god into the syringe

i didnt mean holy body how did i mix those up

[open vessel]

I never played DMC, let me check the designs

[crisp night]

my brain just entirely did a 180

homonculus is just a really juiced tyrant

there we go

trying to talk about maleghast while i'm at lecture is going to give my brain a charlie horse

[glacial junco]

Look up the Devil Triggers/DMC 4 enemies especially.

[open vessel]

:0

[glacial junco]

But also I could see Bayo angels but with more goop going on

[pseudo flicker]

Rats hazard token

[open vessel]

I like this design a lot

[open vessel]

cute

[crisp night]

this is my bed irl

[glacial junco]

Friend shaped

[crisp night]

carcass is the funniest aesthetic to think about with heresy because it's just slapping tacticool on top of what was there

[glacial junco]

I think Grinders and Abhorrors would look like Brutal Legend demons

[open vessel]

gun nun

[glacial junco]

Where they are like a weird mix of BDSM and Churchy

[crisp night]

deadsouls and abhorrers is just funny

[glacial junco]

Carcass is so unique I feel like it takes over whatever it combines with aesthetically

EXCEPT maybe Abhorrors

Since we get some equilibrium lookin Excorcist with gunkata

[crisp night]

carcass + abhorrers = nicholas wolfwood

https://tenor.com/view/wolfwood-trigun-anime-gif-11268508

why isnt there a gun cross upgrade for exorcist

that's what i'm sayin

i think the only combos i really can't envision in my head are abhorrers + mox and grinders + deadsouls

[pseudo flicker]

On that note, once again, any ideas on how a bolide could look like? I am thinking of just eyes. Nothing else, there are just eyes staring at you from the tile now

[glacial junco]

Deadsouls and abhorrors: Vampire goths

[spiral gale]

yesyesyes

[night hedge]

be the change you wanna see in the world

[grave warren]

IRL bolides are a kind of meteor, I've been assuming the holy body just throws chunks of rock. Piles of eyes and feathers would be more metal, though.

[visual root]

hey where did you get the assets for this?

[vocal star]

Someone made terrain assets that features a biblically accurate bolide.

https://www.tumblr.com/everestframe/733728909307379712/made-some-custom-assets-for-maleghast-from

[pseudo flicker]

i saw that, but dont want to repeat after them xd

[blissful walrus]

if an ability that does no damage, when it fails, does it deal 1 damage still?

[pseudo flicker]

what?

[umbral cipher]

Abilities that aren't attacks can't fail

They just happen

[next basin]

2 Warheads: Bladed Lobotomised
2 Painwheels: Endless Screaming, Barbed Wheel
1 Berserker: Machineheart, Fuel injectors
WARLORD: Nerve Twitch, Apoplexy, Spine Devil Blade, Overclock Blood Boil

Not even a 7 mutation titan could stop the pain train

[glacial junco]

Machineheart looks so good

[next basin]

I couldn't say

Never popped

Fuel injectors was funny

[spice stag]

<@&1169764878454620231> Duel?

[storm pine]

I thought you can only run one upgrade per unit type

[devout pulsar]

superhell lets you run two

[storm pine]

Or were you running Ultrahell?

[devout pulsar]

ultrahell

[storm pine]

Oh nice, hell yeah

[devout pulsar]

however it's said

[storm pine]

Been real curious about how Ultrahell games would go

[sudden patrol]

I made them

[junior elbow]

Is there somewhere we can get them?

[storm pine]

Hey y'all

On rolls like the 5+ to doom units in the splash of the Vizigheist's Horrendous Shriek,

Do you roll individually for each unit in the zone, or roll once to cover them all?

[primal nest]

One roll

[storm pine]

Cool, thanks

And while I'm here and there are some Goregrinder folks around

Do you find Carnifexes are super dependent on Painghouls for strength?

Seems like a lot of Carn stuff will just bounce right off anything with armor or vitality

[junior elbow]

Phys armor really makes Goregrinders struggle yeah

[glacial junco]

Carn has the Wild Slashes which I think is pretty good if you have enemies that corner hug

or get into gaps that your wheels can't runovers

Dealing 1 fire damage and existing (a distraction) is pretty good value against the tons of armor this game has

[storm pine]

Hell yeah

I'm pretty deadset on double Painwheels in this Mass, and I really like the idea of the Carn, should I drop a slot of Warheads or a Berserker for a Painghoul?

Or are y'all having successes without a ghoul

[next basin]

Don't know if it's just the skill gap between myself and my opponent in this one game, but because each unit is actually threatening (yes even thralls) if you fuck up it is much much much harder to claw it back

As for carn, depends on the enemy army

If they hug corners, out go the painwheels in comes the carns

And I usually just ignite them tbh

[glacial junco]

At the same time

I realized that I run carns without berzerker

But berzerker can pull enemies out of corners to let the wheels get in

[bright obsidian]

yea like XIIV said it's more of a goregrinders issue than a carnifex issue, but i run carnifex without berzerker or warheads to okay effect. i definitely build around maximizing wild slashes more than chainsaw. i wouldn't run without the painghoul, cauterize is too good in too many matchups

and a range 3 pull 3 is never a bad thing

[next basin]

Also this, big time

[bright obsidian]

my question about pull is: pull is an involuntary move, rules state move is orthogonal rather than diagonal, is it so that pull/push are orthogonal also? that feels wrong to me somehow but is probably right

[glacial junco]

you got it, All movement even forced is orthagonal

[bright obsidian]

trying the list that came to me in a dream for my first heresy match

[glacial junco]

You get to pick the directions as they are yanked

As long as it moves closer overall

[bright obsidian]

yeah, i was pretty sure that was true. more of a mismatch with the rules and what i feel in my heart than the rules feeling contradictory

just since range is counted with diagonals and moves aren't, it feels strange that 'pull 2' means 'the unit is 1 range closer to you'

aside, and this may be more of a conversation for #1170699117454962848, but is anyone distributing token packs for isocon, or are we all just making our own?

[primal nest]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1175671132989444106/1175878154351546440/Screenshot_227.png?ex=656cd4de&is=655a5fde&hm=bb25ee0b61c7fb709f3f42c8049a7545703ef4b8331f5ab02082af2a2f6d6f3e&

Here’s a good idea on how push and pull works

[sly vine]

to tag onto this (sorry to not answer your question while doing this) can we add terrain tile graphics

[lethal trench]

pretty sure the push on the right could only be further to the right

and the lower one only further down

lateral moves for both of those will not push them further away

same also goes for the top pull

[tulip crane]

This is patently wrong, as the distance from the origin will increase. It's debatable if that's what the rules mean and if it's a legal move, though.

[lethal trench]

pushing the one on the right up or down does not increase distance, it would still be 3 spaces away

so to the right is the only valid push

you can only really choose the direction when you are at exact diagonals

[primal nest]

I assuming it’s not measured by range, but instead spaces from the origin

[silent sluice]

those are the same thing

you are confusing movement rules with distance

[primal nest]

Right gunwight is two spaces away from the origin. All push directions besides left makes it three spaces away from the origin

Atleast that’s how I’m interpreting it

[silent sluice]

it takes an additional 1 mv to move into its space since you can't move diagonally, but it's still the same distance away

[tacit cedar]

I think frankly if you're aligned with a unit like that and your understanding allows you to do anything but push directly away, then that understanding is wrong

because that's a case where the intent of 'away' is clear?

Imo

[silent sluice]

Just to reiterate if it isn't clear, the way movement works has nothing to do with distance. When you move, you aren't teleporting to a space within range X using different rules for how to measure distance. You're moving a certain amount of spaces and aren't allowed to move diagonally. That has nothing to do with how distance is measured, which is what governs the direction of pushes.

[tulip crane]

Very good point.

[bright obsidian]

i think there is an equally valid reading for 'further away' meaning either spaces or range. the up movement here is more spaces between them, even if it is within the same range band.

[primal nest]

Yeah that’s what I’m referring to

It’s not exactly the most clear in the book? So I get why people think otherwise

[bright obsidian]

i've been playing as distance counted in squares along orthogonal lines bc it feels more good to me, but this is a relatively simple thing to clarify in the next round of rules

[primal nest]

Ye I just made that guide cuz one of our players was having trouble figuring out push and push stuff

[silent sluice]

so according to your interpretation, if one direction has difficult terrain, you'd be forced to push them through it since it would take more movement and thus be "further away" by your reckoning?

[primal nest]

No because I’m not considering any movement of the unit itself

[silent sluice]

then by what basis are determining that distance is measured only orthogonally when no such ruling is in the book (that I'm aware of)

[primal nest]

When it says “as long as each space of the pus his further away from the pushing unit or effect than the lasts pace” I’m assume that it it being measured by a space itself, regardless of any terrain or unit movement (except for elevation, which has a specific clause for blocking terrain)

Yes, there is no specific ruling in the book where it says involuntary movement is orthogonally measured. But there is also not one saying it is diagonally measured either. This is just my reading of it because it is not clear.

[bright obsidian]

push explicitly ignores difficult terrain

[primal nest]

That as well yes

Forgot to mention

[silent sluice]

to reword it to fit your interpretation, it would have to say "as long as each space of the push takes more spaces of movement to reach from the space of the pushing unit or effect than the last space" which would mean that, although adverse terrain wouldn't affect the amount of spaces a unit is pushed, it would still affect the direction the unit gets pushed in

[visual root]

thats really cool!

[junior cliff]

was there any rule that says elevated spaces can be damaged the same way walls can?

[primal nest]

Nope

[junior cliff]

ty

[primal nest]

Np

[bright obsidian]

does a unit borrowed by heresy count as the house it comes from, or the house it's coming to? if someone's gargamaxxing and borrows a holy body, and the holy body gets a plague token, does it take damage or not?

[primal nest]

I assume that means gargamox specific units

So a holy body would take plague

[bright obsidian]

that's the ruling we're playing

[primal nest]

I can see why people could read otherwise. But that’s what I feel makes sense

[bright obsidian]

yea it feels correct, but it also feels ambiguous

[primal nest]

Ye

[blissful walrus]

how do miracle interacts with Soul Harvest? i understand that first time it gives a soul and subsequent deaths dont, also what happens if the corpse is consumed? or if the tile is occupied?

[grave warren]

I think heresy has to keep the old house, since otherwise no one would ever run garg units that need to self-inflict plague as heresy units

[silent sluice]

It seems like you can still revive via Miracle just fine without a corpse (although keep in mind that Obliterate will still prevent it from occurring since the unit doesn't count as slain). As far as if the tile is occupied, you'll just have to agree with something at the table. I don't think we know the intended ruling for that. Closest free space is probably a safe bet.

[tulip crane]

<@&1169764878454620231> anyone interested in kicking my ass in my first ever match of Maleghast?

[spice stag]

sure

[bright obsidian]

the dream list was pretty bad into garg+abhorrers lmao. i think just not taking quench and taking another attack, and swapping one AG for another enforcer could make it solid; having hellrider kick on operator balls out of control

[blissful walrus]

Do i have to be in already in melee range to activate Limb for limb?

what happens if i step into 2 walls at the same time?

[rancid girder]

You do not and I would rule that each wall gets you a damage

[junior elbow]

Oh hey new 11dragonkid

Whoa

[dense stratus]

https://youtu.be/R6HNWN-zbnk?si=phmeMoE3AOKE3dBD Intro to Maleghast is out!

[junior elbow]

Summoning ritual

[blissful walrus]

can units walk over allies?

[proven flame]

proud of this so i kinda wanna post it here too gfdjkhngfj
but
BAD PRIEST

[steep rune]

Hello, me like metal, wargame and Tom's artwork

[steep rune]

Discovered this game existed cause of your video, thanks

[junior elbow]

Fantastic and impeccable as always

[junior elbow]

Tom also has a fucking child how does he do it

[spice stag]

Igorri(me) vs Garg: We both got each other to 1 health but lost Round 5 due to to soul ability. Garg hazards came in clutch late game. Close game tho.

[tulip crane]

My first game; my first victory. Thank you very much for the match, it was a blast.

[spice stag]

Np, was a fun one

[primal nest]

gargamaxxing!

[tulip crane]

That's the name of the build in the Notion spreadsheet I set up, how did you guess?

[primal nest]

I didn’t

It’s just nice a see a fellow mox player get their footing it

[steep rune]

Anyone else get Flesh Pounder vibes from this guy?

[grave warren]

I had this image stuck in my head during work, now it's everyone's problem

[pale echo]

thank u for your contribution

[storm pine]

Wallin em up

[lyric fog]

ooohhh!

[glacial junco]

Howd you get them sized for tokens right?

[junior elbow]

Yes good

Last night I kidnapped my opponent's necro and huddled everyone up around her so she physically couldn't escape and threw up walls to make it a bunker

[storm pine]

This Exorcist is trapped between a wall, their own antipriest, and a hazard

They have 2 Doom tokens and we're halfway through the 4th round 😎

[storm pine]

I downloaded Salty's maps and just doubled their size before printing

Required some cutting and taping but now I have solid 8x8s

[glacial junco]

Oh sorry reversed

how did you size the tokens

[storm pine]

I just recorded them on a Black Mass sheet I made myself using Tom assets

GREAT URGAL BLADE CLINCH

[junior elbow]

The meat cleaver

[coarse turtle]

this is such a sick way to run the game irl!

i just use a chessboard

and some character sheets i designed

[patent steeple]

gonna be playing my first ultrahell match

shits gonna be insane

[terse depot]

Great urgal blade versus the world

[dense stratus]

ya know sometimes I really want to just yell at idiot for being idiot

one person watched the intro video and they are apparently confused on whether Maleghast is a TTRPG or wargame

I can't help people with zero reading or hearing comprehension!

it's as clear as it could get

I LITERALLY WROTE It INTO THE DESCRIPTION

[bleak folio]

that would rely on a viewer to read the description

which is, Not Common Practice for some reason

[open vessel]

Basic media literacy challenge (Difficulty: Impossible)

[next basin]

hope it goes better than mine

[open vessel]

Or just literacy in general

[next basin]

so!
I just decided to collect all the data gathered by the wonderful @glacial junco in their spreadsheet and produce the winrates of each faction

the results are a little shocking

GOREGRINDERS: 75%
GARGAMOX: 60%
DEADSOULS:50%
CARCASS: 53%
ABHORRORS:27%
IGORRI:53%```

[glacial junco]

(please add your game to the spreadsheet if you want to)

[next basin]

especially if its a W for ABHORRORS /j

[terse depot]

That doesn't suprise me-it's self reported and primarily at low malice. If you don't know the Holy Nuke it can be rough

[dense stratus]

I guess everyone just figured out that Abhorrors are strong lategame so they just gank them early on as hard as possible

[terse depot]

If you're not Irritating an angel you tend to eat dirt a lot

[next basin]

CARCASS has the most games with 19 games total

and GOREGRINDERS has the most wins total, at 12

I do feel a bit bad for GARGAMOX players

since mine and my friend's GOREGRINDER GARGAMOX games really haven't been working out for them

and without them, they'd be on top

[glacial junco]

I think its too early to be for sure, I'm also responsible for not adding games to the list from before when i made it

[next basin]

yeah I think once we get to around 100 games each for the factions we can really start to get an idea for which one is really tough

[glacial junco]

Still good data tho

[next basin]

it is!

[devout pulsar]

too low

more games

[next basin]

Thank you for gathering

[devout pulsar]

it's also worth evaluating the win rate vs each faction

[next basin]

You heard it here first folks, Mods orders, we all gotta play more MALEGHAST

oh shit that's a good idea, I'll add that field

[devout pulsar]

a bad matchup might just be happening a lot

[glacial junco]

Also not to invalidate homebrew but i wouldnt count windata from games against them since they are still in more dev than most

Thanks for throwing the winrates together though!

I wish i could automate the sheet to make adding and calculating this stuff up a bit better but even at my job I avoid excell lol

[torn hare]

want me to taike a crack at it?

[pseudo flicker]

i have 2 more but i dont remember them at all

[pseudo flicker]

I think it might be valid to make a second page thats dedicated to homebrews

[tulip crane]

Would it be rude to ask to make a separate tab/sheet for homebrew matches? I love that there are homebrew houses for the game (I'm avoiding looking into them because I want to make my own!) but I think they might skew the data.

There. Someone else said it, so it must be unanimous.

[glacial junco]

I was driving to work but good add.

I plan to probably also make a new tab each month

[torn hare]

this, and also it might be good to just have a "date of match" column, for organization's sake

[glacial junco]

I don't want that tbh

I think getting it into the month is good enough, Getting more info that I've already gotten feels

Weird

I appreciate the input though!

[torn hare]

haha yeah that's fair

[glacial junco]

You win, you browbeat me into making a seperate tab I hope you are happy. /s

Joking aside let me know if anything need changing or handled differently on the sheet

[devout pulsar]

bless theja

[glacial junco]

Whatever makes adding things easier or more enticing, just as long as we don't start trying to track usernames and such. I only want whats there

[devout pulsar]

theja

[glacial junco]

Theja please lmao

[glacial junco]

The absolute last thing i want is for this to feel like a timesheet

[torn hare]

what's more important theja, the DATA?? or having, like, fun or whatever...

[torn hare]

i can add a table for win% and etc. - is it okay to remove the HB rows from the non-HB tab?

[glacial junco]

As a Pilebunker stan let me tell you about Optimal strats vs Enjoyment lmao

[glacial junco]

Is that something people would want? I think its too early to put that kinda number down only because I don't want new people to look at it and make a judgement about a faction they might wanna try right away

[next basin]

fun is more important, however, I also have fun when data

so pwease gimbe data

[glacial junco]

God only knows how it feels to get into a fighting game and learn that your favorite has a 2 in 10 matchup

[devout pulsar]

i can break out spss to do some analysis when we have more data

[glacial junco]

As for the HB feel free

[glacial junco]

Is it possible to do this in another tab?

[torn hare]

that was the plan, yes

[glacial junco]

Might as well then
Thanks again, i'm Pretty hopeless when it comes to making the cells do what i want other than hold letters.

[torn hare]

there u go, some basic stuff in a new Analytics tab

it'll update as more data is added, but it only looks at the November tab

anyone, feel free to fix it or make it not look dumb

[fluid trout]

Huh, wasn’t expecting that much % for Goregrinders

[devout pulsar]

so the most common houses are the simplest ones and they're also winning the most

[primal flame]

Grinders stay winning

[silent sluice]

I'm thinking the sampling bias comes in because people are more likely to report their games when they win. So the more popular factions have a higher amount of wins reported simply by virtue of being played more often.

[glacial junco]

I think a lot more ties aren't recorded if nothing else

Since I can attest to like 2 unrecorded tie games from like the first week

[silent sluice]

nobody won so nobody felt the desire to report the game. Just my hypothesis tho

[next basin]

Common grinder W

[small locust]

maybe we should make like a little chart or somethin, report all our faction wins with so we can see who's strugglin

[devout pulsar]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BxEBm6RnXR06WYUrrQGrG75jplqrv2x3PabcOfx-Ue4/edit?usp=sharing

[glacial junco]

There is a chart in the sheet on a different tab or did you mean a different sort

[small locust]

naw that'll do

[glacial junco]

I think I should pick up the slack and start becoming a tactical genius and show how strong Abhorrors are
This is a lie. I am already a genius

[tulip crane]

Seeing their current situation, I very much intend on doing exactly that.

[elfin ermine]

yooooo?!?!

[zealous lantern]

i have bought the rule book

this looks so fun

[pseudo flicker]

Cooking modular terrain

[zealous lantern]

i want to play irl cause i have a map thats useful for it and terrain (which i need to build and paint)

and models that are metal looking

[storm pine]

I would die for GUB

[storm pine]

It was the best time, and closest game I've had

Minis soon!!!!!

[terse depot]

Suprise! GUB is I think a very powerful move on a faction who does not usually get burst damage

[storm pine]

Might be a mobile thing, but is the report spreadsheet full?

[glacial junco]

Shouldn't be, I think its a mobile thing.

[pseudo flicker]

Surprised i saw nobody make tombstones as terrain

[next basin]

[pseudo flicker]

One moment, i forgot it had a lowercase r xd

[pseudo flicker]

I am once again out of ideas for terrain so taking suggestions 🫠

[glacial junco]

Big cogs and gears, Tesla towers and machinery like Dr. Frankenstein would have.

[pseudo flicker]

Oooooooo

Good idea

[lapis willow]

horticulture! thorny brambles, fountains, stacked rocks, stepping stones, flower patches, viney overgrowth, etc(:

[pseudo flicker]

I think ill start on thst tommorow

Todays update going to include fallen leaves (2 styles), thorny wall, fairy circle (mushrooms), tombstones (2 styles) and modular rivers (4*4 styles)

[small locust]

Heck ye

[pseudo flicker]

Oh and a ritual circle

[next basin]

remains of units: the blades of warheads stuck in the ground, the goo of a slime left behind after it's smashed, the shell casings of a CARCASS squad piled up and left behind, the petrified body of a holy body after death, a ratking of snakes left behind by a set of chosen or the smashed glass left behind by an IGORRI mass

[torn hare]

You got a full plate looks like, but what about some urban stuff? Open sewer grates, cinderblocks, rebar

[wet sinew]

<@&1169764878454620231> Anyone up for a game or two?

[spice stag]

Yeah, I wanna try deadsouls

[wet sinew]

Sure let's go

[spice stag]

I'll send you my BM in like 5 min then just send me the link Ina DM

[wet sinew]

When you body block with a necromancer, does the attack treat as if it was attacking the minion? Like for cover or elevation

[glacial junco]

I think we treated it that way

yeah

"You can redirect it to target your minion instead regardless of range"

Makes it sound like it gets both the upside and downside associated with that

[silent sluice]

the only sticky spot is line of sight

[glacial junco]

I think if it ignores distance at that point it should ignore line of sight just to make it doable

the alternative is an annoying game of "Well you didn't position the minion to body block right since i shot you in the leg from an obtuse angle"

doesn't sound intended

Oh well Another clarification for Maleghast for Freaks

[devout pulsar]

maleghast for freaks?

[pale echo]

tom's Advanced Rules clarification doc he's mentioned before

[devout pulsar]

ah

[silent sluice]

apparently won't be coming out until next year

not sure if that's first or Icon 1.6

[devout pulsar]

next year isn't far

nothing is in the grand scheme of things

[spice stag]

First Deadsouls game (Me) vs CARCASS: Lost round 4 due to bullet hustle soul ability and vulnerable, woul'dve gotten my round 4 doom win con if not for that. Other than that it was a close game and Deadsouls are alot more fun to play than Igorri imo and their alot better too. Will definitely try them out more.

[pseudo flicker]

ended up needing a bit more than 4 versions 😅

[tulip crane]

Shame, seems like it was really close.

[spice stag]

Yeah I didn't take into account his bullet rush soul ability which is really good. Also if I were to play CARCASS again I'd probably take 2 banshees instead of 1.

[glacial junco]

Christ there are like 9 GrindersVSouls matches in a row

Who hurt who

[spice stag]

oh yeah I forgot to put mine in the tracker thanks for reminding me

[primal nest]

Honestly that might explain why grinders has such i high winrate

[tulip crane]

Looking at the table, I think the Goregrinder player hurt the Deadsouls' a lot.

[primal nest]

Feel like they have good matchup against souls

[spice stag]

Considering none of the deadsouls units have armor yeah I can imagine

[pseudo flicker]

trying to find a cool term for a unique form of undeath, and wikipedia gives me this pearl

STRANGE WORD INDEED

[tulip crane]

Entry in line 63:

"[...] Abhorrer mispositioned necromancer and died to Vapors"
Seems like a common cause of death nowadays.

[pseudo flicker]

i feel funky because i want to put this onto a preview in the workshop but 95% of people in tabletop sim have no idea how to make it look like that lmao

[spark saffron]

I haven't had time to look into Maleghast too much yet, but I was wondering: what's the best option to set a skirmish up, VTT-wise?

[pseudo flicker]

roll20 and tts are the most popular ones

roll20 is free but kinda janky, but also with a lot of quality of life that makes the game easier

[devout pulsar]

there's also isocon in the pins here but i've not tried that

[pseudo flicker]

tabletop simulator costs money and isnt as easy to use, but easier to set up a table in imo

[spark saffron]

I've been trying to get out of Roll20 now that I've come across Foundry for my Lancer games; but it IS easy to set something up quick since I know my way around it. I'll have a look at isocon, though.

[devout pulsar]

foundry also has a module

[patent steeple]

there is a foundry module

[spark saffron]

Oh, it does?

[devout pulsar]

idk how it is

[spark saffron]

I haven't found it looking around

[foggy hound]

I'll always recommend OwlbearRodeo when it comes to free options. Way more intuitive to use than Roll20.

[devout pulsar]

#1164643959721693184 message

i gotchu starlight

[silent sluice]

you should have made her look through the pins herself :P

[devout pulsar]

i could have

but i had to double check it was pinned

[pseudo flicker]

in terms of popularity tbh roll20 is still number 1

[spark saffron]

Thanks! Much appreciated 😁

[devout pulsar]

np

[spark saffron]

Well...the thing is after spending 10 years on it and never actually completely achieving what I was trying to do, I'm trying to use R20 as little as possible ^^

[spark saffron]

Ok, wow, ReggiesWarOnEverything I owe you one because that's also how I discover there is an actual WIP ICON system too ^^
Just as I was considering starting a game for my usual group

[devout pulsar]

you're welcome also you can just call me Reggie everyone else does

[patent steeple]

the icon system is pretty good

[spark saffron]

Will do, Reggie!
I'm more of a Lancer gal but honestly, new options are always good 👀
And ICON looks really interesting even if it's still not quite finalized.

[patent steeple]

ill take any moment to shill icon

but its content complete if that helps

[spark saffron]

It does! ^^
Means I can start playing around with it without worry!
Same goes for Maleghast, actually it might just be the thing that finally gets me playing a wargame

[patent steeple]

yeah maleghast's design is quite similar to icon's in a fair number of ways

graze is an icon thing for instance

same with orthagonal movement

and the whole "u still do stuff even if u miss"

[regal kraken]

And here she goes, jumping head first into new things and leaving behind a half-warehouse of unfinished project.
And I'm the irresponsible one.

Although, I get it, Necromancers are cool.

[spark saffron]

The entire idea that you always do something even on a miss is one of the best things I've come across, design-wise

It takes out what has been, at least from experience, the biggest source of frustration

[patent steeple]

its one of the things that attracted me to icon

[primal nest]

Indeed

Also welcome

[regal kraken]

Hello! Thanks for the welcome!

[pseudo flicker]

i have officially cooked

i will now lay down

[glacial junco]

Yum

[regal kraken]

That's stunning!

[glacial junco]

https://tenor.com/view/yum-gif-18243592

[pseudo flicker]

its also such a shitty map to play on lmao

just imagine

deployment zone is not even an edge, but a corner

[fluid trout]

Only 1 solution. Winrate breakdown by matchup

[pseudo flicker]

map is cut in half by adverse terrain

except 1 elevation in the middle

[glacial junco]

Carcass wins the matchup lmao

[spark saffron]

"Here, have a trench you can shoot above"

[pseudo flicker]

but hey the rivers look so fucking cool

i am very proud

[glacial junco]

Except here come my wheel skeletons

[compact bane]

God I'm really stoked to introduce Maleghast at our Game Nights...

[patent steeple]

ive done so my playgroup

its a blast

[glacial fable]

Tom read Dai Dark when designing this didn't he

[compact bane]

I will just have to figure out how to play the Gargamox...

[patent steeple]

i still have not played mox

i should

but abhorrers calls...

[compact bane]

They are kind of parasite themed. They have a Leech unit. Look at my profile pic. I mean... I have to play them

[primal nest]

mox is mentioned, i arrive

[pseudo flicker]

Gargamaxxing

[compact bane]

I will return tomorrow and gladly be taught the way of the Gargamox 😉

[sly vine]

hahaha i thought the same

if he hasn't that would be a hilarious coincidence

he did reference dorohedoro within the text and also visually all over the place..

[junior blaze]

no holy water?

piss lake no more

[quasi plover]

I've looking for the answer but I can't seem to find it 😅
Can a Warhead target a wall with Cleave and guarantee a hit on a enemy unit without rolling the dice?

[pale echo]

I think the working assumption has been yes

[quasi plover]

I guess Infect from the Gargamox works the same way right?

[primal nest]

doesnt hitting a wall not trigger effects tho?

[quasi plover]

It isn't an effect 😔

[pale echo]

That one feels weirder

[primal nest]

i also agree with step

especially with how strong infect effects are already

tho i think its not that difficult to reason that it triggers on hit effects but not special tags

like i doubt we out here trying to doom a brick wall

[quasi plover]

I like more that way but seems weird to me that a warhead can hit a wall and hit for free a unit in range 1 without rolling dice

I know it ain't that bad because it does only 1 damage but don't know

[tulip crane]

Adding a defense score to walls might help, but I worry about it making them too hard to remove. They do also feel a little flimsy at the moment, though.

[primal nest]

mans just doing parkour off the joint

[quasi plover]

Well, if Graze still works I wouldn't see that much of a problem, except that a wall having defense is weird, like how do you fail to hit a wall? xD

[quasi plover]

At least it has cool roleplaying visuals

[primal nest]

the thing with infect as well is that it specifically mentions characters and not units

[tulip crane]

Are walls characters? Never noticed there are two distinct terms at work.

[quasi plover]

I've tried that way too 😔

[primal nest]

oh lol

man thats so weird

its not that hard to imagine like, plague infecting stone

but it also feels like im cheesing the game a little

[tulip crane]

You don't fail to hit it, you fail to land a good blow. There's more to chopping a tree than making the edge make contact with the bark.

[quasi plover]

Makes sense

[tulip crane]

Either way, I feel there's something there that could use some scrutiny. About how the rules deal with walls and etc. I haven't been Deadsouled yet, but 2HP without armor, defense, or AoE immunity makes them feel a little flimsy.

[primal nest]

"ah yes. i have hit this rock. take 2 dmg on 3 of ur units. ggs shake my hands"

[tulip crane]

Having to spend more than two activations to break a wall would be rather obnoxious, though.

[terse depot]

Alright, Gargamaxxers: How do you actually play the Goop to it's highest potential?

[primal nest]

It’s a bit to explain

Basically they are a setup faction that wants to brawl a lil since most of their abilities are range 3 to melee. You do alot of chip over time and then try to setup explosive turns where you clear most of the board

It’s honestly hard to give a general overview of the faction because they are extremely flexible and a lot of their strategy is very list dependent

[night hedge]

i think the two big things you can do are plague and hazard stacking

[primal nest]

Yeah

That’s their two main forms of dmg. Then it’s just a matter of what you wanna lean into and how you are are gonna finish people off

[tawny wing]

Does this matter with Cleave? If you miss the enemy unit you do 1 graze damage and if you hit an adjacent wall and splash to the enemy unit you do 1 damage. There's no additional add-on effects and strength applies the same either way so I'm not sure it makes a difference.

[primal nest]

Well if you miss the attack on a character then the on hit effect doesn’t trigger

So you can’t hit the wall

[quasi plover]

The probem comes for example with a Chosen, because he is adjacent to a wall, he can it the chosen and the wall always, while with the Graze on the Chosen at least I can keep the wall to buff my Banshees

For example, with 2 warheads you can leave a chosen with 1 hp and destroy a wall without using any dice

[naive glacier]

Walls should not trigger hit effects

[quasi plover]

Its not a horrible problem but seems weird to me, just wanted to know your opinions

[quasi plover]

Oh okay so the extra attack from the warhead should be counted as an effect

[primal nest]

Well it’s an on hit effect

[spice stag]

That includes splash effects too?

[primal nest]

Ye

[spice stag]

Now that I think about it walls activating effects would be OP especially on Gargamox with infect.

[primal nest]

Ye

[torn hare]

Here’s my Chirurgeon 😅

[quasi plover]

That has to be the best surname I have ever seen

[steep rune]

I imagine they just punch the floor and grab the dead from beneath the earth to make zombies with. No need for shovel

[torn hare]

Lol I hadn't thought of that but I like it, it's canon now

[steep rune]

Happy to be of service 🫡

[candid monolith]

some my friends have discovered the game :))))

[pseudo flicker]

Its really funny to JUST update the mod with terrain and immediately see it used lmao

[junior elbow]

I love the injector gun thing

[junior elbow]

Yesss Deadsouls

I'm so soulspilled now bye Carcass these weird goths are my new best friend

[rain ocean]

That was me, I was recording all the matches I'd played since I hadn't updated the sheet with them. I had some that I forgot so I didn't list them. For the first match I tried a 1 of each list to see how the Deadsouls played, my opponent picked goregrinders and went with a double painwheel list. After I got annihilated I tried different lists based on theorycrafting and sometimes stuff that other people had success with here to see if the matchup was as one-sided as I had speculated during my first attempt.

[candid monolith]

I am a gorelad but these are two of my buds

[pseudo flicker]

I still have no idea how a stair token could look like for the tabletop sim T.T

[junior elbow]

Sick

[primal nest]

Can you make wedges in tts?

[junior elbow]

Could just do a ramp 🤔 little gradient going on

Braincell

Ah I guess they'd be a little harder to stand on

[pseudo flicker]

Yea

Maybe like half a tile long thing?

[junior elbow]

Oo yeah that too

[pseudo flicker]

Should work fine

The innovation of stairs coming tommorow

Probably as a separate update, then ill work on some more terrain doodlets

[candid monolith]

I am gonna say I hate that you can move after acting

I am getting kited

[candid monolith]

I was creamed :'(

[candid monolith]

I don't really know how to counter dooms, they opened up with no spots on their backline I could reliably push through to and every time I had a chance to get into melee there'd be a wall in the way before I can do anything.

[empty ocean]

I just had a similar game but I think Dooms are a pretty good counter to GG who will naturally kind of separate themselves and want more open terrain.

[proven flame]

the berserker can just annihilate walls, right?

[glacial junco]

Ye

Or well they are great at it

Or no yeah pulverized just kills walls outright

[rain ocean]

The following is advice to take with a grain of salt, I'm by no means an expert in the matchup but having played this a lot from the Deadsouls side I have the opposite perspective regarding the matchup.

If this is Deadsouls vs Goregrinders being talked about, my advice for the Goregrinder player would be to give stuff speed and berserk. Ime one of your best units vs Deadsouls is the Painwheel, if you can get speed and berserk tokens on them you can just bum rush them turn 1 and kill a unit a turn difficult to setup depending on your roster, it'll be difficult to generate berserk without ignite unless you're not giving the painwheel speed tokens with the painghoul, will likely be staggered until the second round (you might kill three units in the first round if the dead souls player plays too far forward for some reason - don't ever count on this, but you shouldn't struggle to kill at least one unit at the start). If you're struggling it might be an issue with the maps being played on (my experience is mostly with variants on vanilla maps), but generally speaking the Goregrinder player shouldn't have issues gapclosing unless the map is particularly unfavored. If you move properly you should have crossed basically the whole board with your army on turn one. On turn two and on you should feast unless the DS player gets good weakness rolls or you mispositioned somehow.

For more context on the unit a turn thing the only unit (necro aside) that has more than 3 HP is the Bound Devil which is pretty fragile ime (it has 2+ def, magic armor, and no way of generating vitality tokens within the faction, fight me), which means that even on a graze your painwheel will deal 2 damage (given that it has tokens, which it should if you're properly utilizing them), followed by 1 damage from berserk (which should kill the problematic stuff). If you really struggle you might just want to go double painwheel and furious roar (maybe even ignite one of the painwheels - not doable on turn 1 unless something dies), and spread out your painwheels so they can't block you efficiently. In general though the dead souls player has their work cut out for them since outside of an isolated banshee bale scream they don't have an efficient way to kill Goregrinder units, so the Goregrinder player can just mulch through Deadsouls units until the Deadsouls player loses to action economy diff. Bonus if you kill stuff that hasn't moved yet so the Deadsouls player loses out on more wall spamming capability for that turn.

Regarding the wall stuff generically, the deadsouls player starts with 1 soul point like anyone else whoops misread that it's 0 soul points, so there are only so many avenues of attack he can cover before you close in. Again, if the map is particularly unfavored there's probably not much you can do aside from play on maps that are less onesidedly designed. The Berserker is generically speaking just there in the matchup to kill a bunch of walls, and maybe hurt something if he can somehow gapclose. Now that said this doesn't account for the Deadsouls player getting a lot of good weakness rolls, but something like that is high variance so I can't really give any advice for that.

Aside from that I'd need to see your list/gameplay/map to give specific advice. I am curious what list the Deadsouls player was running though, if your opponent solved the matchup I'd like to test it out myself.

[silent sluice]

afaik you start with 0 SOUL and only get your first point of SOUL at the start of the 2nd round

[rain ocean]

ahhh

starting with the second

[silent sluice]

(aside from SOUL gained when your stuff dies)

[rain ocean]

Makes the matchup a little bit more bearable...well maybe not. You don't get a free wall setup without that so I think it evens out. I think at best for the Goregrinder player it makes the initial oneshot more difficult to setup, but given that at least every round after that you kill a unit a turn (not every turn that round) and the dead souls player will struggle to kill your units while spending a lot of actions hitting you instead of walling, it's probably not as big a deal. Plus the DS player doesn't get the initial wall I thought they did, which means they're going to have some issues plugging gaps you can close into on the first round. I'll definitely have to do some more tests to see how it changes up the dynamic though.

[fluid trout]

Does Limb from Limb damage boost misses?

[silent sluice]

no, it's only on hit

[jovial tulip]

Out of curiosity, what happens with doom tokens after the end of round 4?
Do they just pop immediately?

Or is it at the end of every subsequent round

[pale echo]

They're just gone

[lyric fog]

You can still apply them, and there are some Deadsouls effects that respond to Doom tokens out of round 4

[silent sluice]

but other than that, they won't do anything on their own after round 4

[primal flame]

Can Ammo Goblin’s regurgitate ammo be used on a unit even if they dont have any abilities to reload?

[umbral cipher]

Don't see why not

[primal flame]

I see, was just curious cuz Im not sure if anything that reloads requires you to actually have to need to reload first, thanks

[soft egret]

<@&1169764878454620231> anyone up for a lat night duel?

[spice stag]

yeah im down

[soft egret]

Loathing?

[spice stag]

sure

ill dm you my stuff

[junior elbow]

Most factions have a soul ability or unit that can remove negative tokens generally I think, barring that doom tokens get removed whenever a doomed unit kills another (enemy?) unit and Deadsouls are pretty squishy

Generally a counter pick against Deadsouls as a house is a tyrant since Deadsouls creates walls and most of your problems are gonna be because there's a wall between you and those tasty tasty units

[primal flame]

Adding on, Grinders in general are also a great counter to deadsouls. Quench in particular can just convert the doom tokens into str or spd. They also kind of just dont give a shit about walls/cover since they’re melee. Just be sure to not have them too isolated or kill the enemy faster than they can take advantage of isolated

[junior elbow]

If you've ever played with/against Carcass you kinda want to position your units similarly to formation where they're all adjacent to each other to reduce the amount of isolated units you have

I got absolutely hosed by Goregrinders every time I played cause they took 4+ thralls which are super easy to pair into buddies to prevent Isolation

[junior cliff]

tbh I just made some by shrinking the elevated terrain token, stacking them, and sticking them together. had to triple up the regular elevated terrain in order to match the height though

[pearl relic]

I saw the 11dragonkid video this looks sick

[charred glacier]

Haha welcome welcome

It is, indeed, sick as hell

[pearl relic]

So is there like ways I can set up a match?

I wanna try this game like soon x3

But not rn

[spice stag]

just ping Maleghast when you want a match

[pearl relic]

Baller

Okay so

What's the meta lookin like

[primal flame]

Don’t think theres much of a meta, at least as far as I’ve seen. Each house has their pros and cons, and while some factions have a very obvious advantage over others I would say even the most unbalanced matchups can have a comeback

[pearl relic]

Interesting

[primal flame]

Grinders vs deadsouls for example favors grinders a lot. But conversely carcass vs deadsouls favors deadsouls more

Honestly just pick the house thats coolest to you and go from there

Each house has like 1-2 playstyles you can probably pick up on reading the units and abilities

Speaking as a (largely) grinders player I use their access to speed tokens frequently, so I like taking pain wheels and building my roster from that, as an example

[pearl relic]

What about Heresy? Is there any good combos from doing that

[next basin]

Goregrinders are good with literally anything that adds vulnerable

an upgraded wheel can now instakill a tyrant

[pseudo flicker]

The problem with that is that it will shit itself if you reload the table

[junior cliff]

ah, cause of the attachment jank? haven't noticed reload issues but maybe that's just me. does have some weird collisions with tokens though.

[pseudo flicker]

sometimes i hate tabletopsim...

[slim sinew]

anyone got any cool homebrew houses theyve made?

i wanna see them

[real bane]

https://discord.com/channels/426286410496999425/1170699117454962848 has some

[jovial tulip]

Ooh!
Another silly question that's probably covered but I want to make sure.

So for strength tokens, if I do an action like spin out and hit 2 units with it, does the strength token apply to every instance of damage in the attack or just the first?

And for multiattacks like cleave, does strength apply to every instance of damage or just the first? Same question for stuff that requires effect die (like superheated chainblade)

[real bane]

Every instance

"Deal 1 damage, then 1 damage again" consumes two strength to deal 2, then 2 again

[elfin ermine]

well- yeah

its only the first but you spend str per instance of damage

[real bane]

oh, right I misread

[elfin ermine]

so as long as you have the tokens you can apply str to the entire attack

[real bane]

but each str applies to only one instance

[elfin ermine]

but if you only have one, it applies on the first

if multiple people get hit at once, you choose which one takes 2 instead

[jovial tulip]

I was just about to ask lol

I'm glad I got this one right in my recent game