MAGNAGOTHICA MALEGHAST

[real bane]

strength is good but these attacks all do 1 damage base

[devout pulsar]

against what?

[real bane]

Carcass

[devout pulsar]

did you take biotoxin on your necro?

or chaos beam

[rancid girder]

strength tokens basically

you're going to have to grind through their armor the painful way

[glacial junco]

Yeah

[real bane]

I took stitch fix lmao

[glacial junco]

You are feeling the pain every igorri player feels

Its almost nessicary against most armies to grab one of the magic damaging acts if they are going to have armor or vit

Because powering through via setup takes, A lot of setup which carcass doesnt give you time to do

[glacial junco]

Is it just a duel? or is there an objective

[storm pine]

Really want to run a double Carnifex and double Painwheel setup. Let me know how your GGs do

[real bane]

Duel

[small locust]

Yeah I learned thar fighting carcass as Igorri is super rough

[real bane]

This map

(flower tokens was Igorri central, but it didn't save me)

[glacial junco]

Honestly I wouldn't touch anything that give vit tokens, You make enough already

[storm pine]

Oh yeah. Pile Bunker is absolutely the premier tyrant killer

[glacial junco]

Or well Normally do

I want to get that fuckin REAL good hit in chief, Please let me hit them I'm normal and just want to hit them with the PB . :feralcatgirl:

[rancid girder]

bio injector's quite good as a carcass counter imo

since it breaks up their formation and does AoE magic

[devout pulsar]

agreed loller

the line on chaos beam can also do some work

[rancid girder]

pair that with ancillary limbs and you actually have really potent long range capabilities

[shut scarab]

Anyone have physical Maleghast setups yet?

Curious to see boards particularly but kitbashes welcome too! I wanna see what everyone is doing!

[charred glacier]

Eyyy!! FIST player here in the Malaghast chat? Centipede no less?? Hell yeah!

[real bane]

i'm in so many shambles rn (because igorri)

why can't I hold all these corpses

[solid vapor]

yeah im playing hostile architecture with ripley

also was in immortal coil as vitruvian :~)

[real bane]

I could see Mutagen Injector doing work on Carcass too

with a corpse and 2 strength, that's 4 magic damage, plus gets rid of op/goblin strength if applicable

[charred glacier]

Which of the Operator and the Chirurgeon voluntarily closed with one another?

[real bane]

Operator is the one moving in

Gun Kata

"style points"

[charred glacier]

Absolute legend

[magic basalt]

The Chirurgeon's acts are kind of the only way to do magic damage so Carcass Igorri matchups are quite difficult

[charred glacier]

Oh, that makes sense. I just kinda uh.. thought you just had to hit em really hard >.>

[glacial junco]

Doing fleshwhip is a good way to get damage in on the Grunts

Since it splashes

[charred glacier]

[sounds of maxed Lycan spam approaching at great speed]

[real bane]

two

you can have at most two hunters

er, horrors

(well both, but the point still stands)

Fleshwhip did put in work though

centered on the EGIS, and with loads of strength, let me recycle the enforcer

(my only magic damage ability )

[rancid girder]

recycle?

[stoic gate]

my brain says to make the suburbs act as adverse terrain that grants cover for wordcount sake

beware all your warheads proccing berserk at once on your warlord lmao

[glacial junco]

Its the 3 soul ability that lets you hit something for 1 toxic at the end of their turn. also makes corpses IIRC

Its an expensive way to finish off something weak if you are desperate lmao

[real bane]

and desperate I was

[autumn crescent]

I spent an unreasonable amount of time on this

[spice stag]

the leech on the side😭

[autumn crescent]

I gotta finish designing my Plaguelord, but for now he looks good with just the ski mask lol

[devout pulsar]

ski mask season

[spice stag]

He looks really good already.

he just needs a comically large weapon to top it off.

[autumn crescent]

I still think I'm gonna stick with him having like a normal-sized bone hammer or something.

But who knows what'll happen. By the time I finalize his design, he may not even be a he anymore.

[spice stag]

can't wait to see the final design

[primal nest]

Hell ye

Stay gargamaxing

[real bane]

Dunes of Mezherron

The winds are hot, and the sun's rays burn your withered skin. Dead or not, to some extent you still need water.

Low dunes are stairs, high ones are adverse and elevation. Cacti are hazards, the river is adverse, and the ziggurats are walls. Any units ending a MOVE adjacent to a ziggurat are blessed with foolhardy flightiness, getting 1 speed and 1 vulnerable. Units can drink by ACTing in a river tile. A unit that has drunk can leave combat by spending 1 space of movement on the east or west side of the map. The first side to do this with their necromancer and two other units wins.

[autumn crescent]

GARGAMAXING

IT WAS RIGHT THERE
HOW DID I NOT SEE IT 💀 💀 💀

[autumn crescent]

Yo, these fucking slap btw 👀

[lyric fog]

Spitballing names for Necros of different factions:

-Xi, Prince of Black Waters
-The Unloved Scion of the Bitter Tears by the Nameless Mourner at the Forgotten Tomb
-KILLMAW

(I considered listing who was which but I feel like if I have to say that I've failed.)

[elfin vortex]

CARCASS, Deadsouls, Goregrinders?

[lyric fog]

Exactly!

[pseudo flicker]

cooked on the basis of molt of jormungand by saltmeister

[primal nest]

hell ye

[spiral gale]

wow

[primal flame]

Very rough necromancer sketches (Grinders and Igorri respectively)

[glacial junco]

hellyeah

I love the Chirurgeons pets they've got there

[primal flame]

They like to collect things and put them in jars

[primal nest]

yo these are sick

[primal flame]

Thank you both

Hoping i can like actually finish them

Instead of tossing them in the big WIP pile

[quartz garden]

Hello hello. Just wanted to hop in to say:
-Love the art of the game
-Love the character and faction design
-Am gonna try to get my gaming group interested.
-Do ping me if it ever gets its own discord server.
I tend to silently follow games like this just to get news on the cool update. Thank you for making this, 6.66 dollars well invested.

[stoic gate]

give yourself the maleghast role if you were ever interested in playing with someone from the server! it gets pinged for duels pretty regularly from what i’ve seen

[spice stag]

speaking of which <@&1169764878454620231> does anyone want to run a quick duel?

[soft egret]

I'd be up for one in 10-15 minutes

[spice stag]

sounds good. do you have a malice level you'd like to play on?

[soft egret]

probably spite for now

[spice stag]

alright just dm your bonus trait, act, and soul ability whenever your ready and I'll send you the link

[soft egret]

quick question for the server, if you have 1 MOVE left, can you move out of adverse terrain?

[spice stag]

nope

[austere ravine]

unless through other effects you haven't moved at all

[soft egret]

will have to raincheck actually, but may be able to play later today or tomorrow

[spice stag]

all g. i'll be available later tonight if you decide you wanna play

[primal flame]

One more rough sketch for the road. Gargamox (though I may change the pose cuz the X crossed arms makes me think too much of CARCASS)

[bright obsidian]

this is my Loathing list, with heavy swing & barbed wheel as essential upgrades & the pain ghoul upgrade & necro upgrade switching up based on opponent. i've had pretty good results!

[vague elbow]

it would be funny to keep a google sheet going so we could track stats

been getting vibes from the chat about gargamaxxing being good, but numbers are fun

[bright obsidian]

of the people who i've played with my housemate who gargamaxxes has the highest win rate i think

but i've been able to stuff gargamox pretty routinely with abhorrers

[primal nest]

That sounds about right

[bright obsidian]

i play abhorrers & goregrinders and have never beaten gargamox with goregrinders & have never lost to them with abhorrers so

[vague elbow]

my guess is that it would shake out to none of them being universally oppressive, since theres so many variables and counter picks

[bright obsidian]

but this is my GG list so even without plague the hazards alone would kill me (。﹏。)

[vague elbow]

yeah that would be rough

[spice stag]

Abhorrers does well against garg due to there area denial and vitality stacking so that makes sense.

[bright obsidian]

if your whole deal is "move seven in straight lines every turn" it's tough to manage terrain

[bright obsidian]

we still have a pretty limited number of games, my intuition is that garg & igorri are meaningfully better than the other houses, but not so much so that they're unbeatable by any stretch of the imagination

the only thing we've made any house rules about is devil bullet + stg

i don't know that DBSTG is actually like. impossibly broken but what is required to play around it doesn't feel fun for our group

[vague elbow]

thats fair

[spice stag]

its only op on higher malice levels. on spite its whatever

[bright obsidian]

agreed

[naive glacier]

stg will probably be changed in an update to deal 4 devil damage instead

so its not always a one shot for necros

[bright obsidian]

i think even at 6 devil damage it would be sensible. being able to one-tap full health tyrants still feels okay, it takes a fair bit of setup to land the combo

but always being able to one shot necros is rough

[spice stag]

i think 6 would be better if where talking about the DBSTG combo specifically

[bright obsidian]

and get around vitality and what-all

[spice stag]

cuz if its 4 then your can get 4 damage consitently with shotgun ammogoblin every round

then there wouldn't be any point in taking it

[naive glacier]

yeah but devil damage is very good

its not ignorable

[spice stag]

true

[naive glacier]

and it obliterates

[spice stag]

oh yeah i forgot about that

that is pretty good

[bright obsidian]

oh for sure, devil damage has as many good anti-mitigation things as oblierate does

[spice stag]

so it would be like a soul denial tool

[bright obsidian]

or deal with Miracle triggers

[spice stag]

that could be pretty fun to make comps for

would it still be 6 souls tho?

[bright obsidian]

yeah 4 DD for 6soul feels... i'm not sure i would run it

[spice stag]

it feels like a 4 souls ability maybe 5

[tiny fulcrum]

I mean, Devil Impact is 6 but it deals 6 back

[chrome dome]

to be fair "deal 6 devil damage" already exists as a 6 soul and its the "take 6 devil damage too" one

[tiny fulcrum]

^

[bright obsidian]

devil impact doesn't require headshot

[chrome dome]

so it probably makes sense the one that can be done at range and without any further downside should be lower

[bright obsidian]

which, yeah, devil bullet is there to mitigate the headshot requirement but that means it takes two turns and there's some telegraphing

[chrome dome]

headshotting is easy when you abuse formation and high ground

which is kinda the point of CARCASS

[bright obsidian]

even on 3 dice it's not guaranteed

[spice stag]

takes 2 turns can only realistically do it round 4+

most matches don't go past round 3

[bright obsidian]

dice are fickle. "must roll 6" is definitely more of a downside than "must have 7 health," even in the 'takes a lot of damage' faction

[spice stag]

the only time CARCASS goes to round 6 to pull of DBSTG is the mirror match

[bright obsidian]

and it's on an-hit effect so you have to have range/los/not get bodyblocked like i think it's pretty well balanced with devil impact tbh

[spice stag]

agreed I think 6 Devil damage would be fine for it. your only gonna use it once if at all during the match so it justifies the cost.

[tiny fulcrum]

I think you need to buff Devil Impact if it's 6 imo

[spice stag]

whys that?

[tiny fulcrum]

Because it's pretty clearly the better ability at that point

[crisp night]

question about devil impact;
if you have less than 6 health as warlord and devil impact the enemy necromancer who also has less than 6 health, is it technically a draw

or do you get the moral victory for having obliterated them first

[bright obsidian]

i don't know that there needs to be perfect parity

[bright obsidian]

i say this, personally. draw but everyone know who, like, really won

[tiny fulcrum]

The enemy takes 6 first, dies, and they immediately lose

[crisp night]

epic win

devil impact win

[spice stag]

your saying if STG was 6 DD it would be better that Devil Impact?

[tiny fulcrum]

The 6 recoil damage never happens because it's deliberately sequenced after the damage you deal

[tiny fulcrum]

Yes

[spice stag]

I'd have to disagree since it requires setup and its still not even guaranteed to land with devil bullet.

Devil impact doesnt need alot of triggers to activate it and it can hit adjacent targets.

actually it doesn't need any triggers lol

[bright obsidian]

literally the only thing DI cares about are "are you next to me and are you isolated"

[spice stag]

literally lol

[bright obsidian]

STG needs LOS & a die roll & headshot

both of which carcass are good at mitigating but they still exist

[crisp night]

ultimately STG is still luck based

you can rig the luck pretty hard in your favor

[spice stag]

yeah pretty much

[crisp night]

but it's luck

[real bane]

Can you body block soul abilities?

[crisp night]

i do think having it be an instant obliterate is a bit much

[bright obsidian]

you can body block any targeted ability i believe

[crisp night]

i think so yes

[real bane]

huh

[spice stag]

Well for stg you would block whatever ranged attack thats required to activate it first

[crisp night]

which is why i would never devil impact a necro with adjacent units

[real bane]

Right, just thinking for Devil Impact

[crisp night]

because that would fuck me

[elfin vortex]

yeah, that's how I feel about STG as well

it's got the same sort of counterplay as the Deadsouls stuff that keys off Isolated

[pseudo flicker]

if you have 1 move left - no, if you ahve to say step 1 or be pushed 1 - you can

[elfin vortex]

Enforcer's Flashbang is solid setup for it, but the timing there is weird if you hit the enemy necro with it since if any of the pushed units haven't activated yet they can just walk back adjacent to their necro

[pseudo flicker]

both devil impact and stg should have counterplay tho

if you dont bodyblock, they are just instant win buttons

[spice stag]

Yeah so you'd have to save your necro DBSTG combo for last

which would allow for your opponent to play around it if they're smart

[real bane]

They can bodyblock it too, doing the push from one of said allies, potentially still leaving it adjacent to another ally

[elfin vortex]

plus you Devil Bullet Reload the round before to guarantee it, except that's the biggest possible telegraph

[spice stag]

even then its not really a garuntee just higher odds

[elfin vortex]

that's true, since it stil requires a hit to automatically trigger the Headshot ability, but DB + Formation is a solid hit chance

[spice stag]

obviously if your in formation with DB buff you get +2D so its a really good chance but I've had really bad roles so its still luck at the end of the day

[soft egret]

does elevation provide cover against a unit standing on elevation?

[primal nest]

yes but it cancels out

so you just roll flat

[coarse turtle]

i know it’s designed for vtt, but what’s running MM like irl?

[short estuary]

it seems playable. People in here have posted about games they've run

Hardest part is probably just tracking all the tokens

[coarse turtle]

i’m just looking for a wargame or rpg to try this weekend with my roommates and i like tom’s games but i can’t decide if would be better to try mm or icon

[zinc solstice]

both are good, but ICON is best with a bit of numbers, depending on how many mates you got

[soft egret]

is the sacrifice's on-hit doom if it hits on a 4+, or do you need to roll an effect die for it?

[zinc solstice]

Damage 1 onhit, effect die 4+ for it to doom

so you gotta BOTH first hit, then confirm if does doom or not.

[glacial junco]

I'll see if our group can compile the info from our games. I might see about making one because i too love stats

[soft egret]

does the lycan splash 1 damage even if it misses?

[lethal trench]

no

only if you hit

[night hedge]

i think 4 devil damage is enough for STG to work given it’ll one tap every non necromancer bar tyrants and those are usually gonna have taken at least 2 damage by the time you have 6 soul

[chrome dome]

I mean the thing there is you'll probably also be doing damage with whatever headshot, so yeah

that tracks

[spice stag]

6 souls to one tap a regular unit is not worth it when you can do that with cheaper abilites

[night hedge]

it’s super useful for the abhorrers match up imo

or late game where there’s say, a low health berserker about to shred something

it’s just

instant kill

with no downside bar 6 soul

sure it’s not the instant obliterate it is now

[spice stag]

Most matches don't go past round three and your not getting 6 souls until 4+ its not worth the investment

[night hedge]

but goregrinders get devil impact which is hella strong as is and it has more downsides

[spice stag]

no it does not

[night hedge]

this is called taking more grunts lol

[spice stag]

Only one thrall can die per round for you to get the soul so its not really gonna get you souls that much faster plus your arent even getting value from other units

[night hedge]

idk gunwights are honestly hella good

[spice stag]

they are i agree

[night hedge]

cause they stack vulnerable and ignore armour

so you’re not losing masses of value

take like 4 and you’re doing fine for soul

[spice stag]

if you lose multiple per round your losing soul gain value and sacrificing value of other units you couldve taken

and lets say you get soul round 3 some how 4 DD still is not good for that cost when other abilities have more consistent damage for cheaper

[night hedge]

it’s a trade off, either prioritising getting soul to pull off soul stuff or prioritising keeping units alive to gain value from their acts

4 DD is really good against units that get vitality or can ignore death

e.g gore grinders, abhorrers, igorri

[spice stag]

True but kill 1 per round for 6 soul is not really worth when compared to other abilities is what im saying

its good in a vacuum not as a whole compared to other abilities

[night hedge]

i’d say it’s definitely more of a luxury pick now but i’d also say that indicates it’s now more balanced compared to the other soul options

[spice stag]

STG is already pretty balanced due to the fact that its entirely luck based and requires multiple rounds to set up the full combo thats why its being 6 DD wouldn't be a problem

it was only OP due to insta kill no matter what health you have

[night hedge]

i think the main issue is the threshold at which it kills a necromancer would be too high at 6, chip damage isn’t hard to manage with splash effects for carcass, but down to 4 means that you’ve played to the win con well enough it’s earned yknow

[junior elbow]

DD?

[glacial junco]

Luck? You get a 50/50 base with devil bullet dont you?

[spice stag]

Getting them down to 6 would mean you played the win con well too lol

[junior elbow]

Requires multiple rounds to set up the combo

[glacial junco]

Mmmm

[spice stag]

if you get the necro down to 6 health and get 6 soul round 4, activated devil trigger before hand. then got the on hit that seems balanced enough.

Thats also IF you get 6 soul round 4 (you're most likely not)

[spice stag]

devil damage

[junior elbow]

Ah

[glacial junco]

Thats only 3 soul through minion deaths tho

Since you get soul passively by round

Idk what the thread is honestly i'm lost on the point now that i type that out

[spice stag]

Tom is most likely gonna nerf STG

so were talkingabout wether or not it should do 4 DD or 6 DD

[glacial junco]

Makes sense.

It should be 4 probably

[spice stag]

I said 6 because 6 soul for 4 DD is way too low imo

and your only gonna use the ability once per round

[glacial junco]

They get strength passively through reloading and ammo gobbo

They WILL get the killing shot with it if they are aiming to dome the enemy necro

[junior elbow]

I could see it if it were on hit rather than on headshot but that seems like it'd make the ability too generic

[glacial junco]

Its just less lamely because they would need to try to plan for it over the match

Where as 6 is easy

And 4 is an evil number with a gun

[spice stag]

imo pulling of the DBSTG isn't really that easy especially on lower malice levels

its a late game win con that get beat out by hard rushround and map control

and its not even garunteed to hit

[junior elbow]

You have to sacrifice a lot of general utility to make it work

[spice stag]

Also i think the only reason people think its easy to pull of cuz they play on maps with little to no walls

[junior elbow]

Reload slides, necro dps, probably not trying to map control

[glacial junco]

Honestly I've had time to think about it. I could go either way six or four

[junior elbow]

In general the 6soul game plan is relatively easy to counter once you know it's happening, I think a lot of people just don't check or forget about it (<- talking about myself) and especially if it's like, one of the only matches you've played of Maleghast at all it might seem oppressive

But combo is combo, go hard to face and they're forced to concede the combo if they want to survive

[pseudo flicker]

I think the abhorrers holy nuke is so much harder to counter than stg lmao

[junior elbow]

Though idk, in general as Carcass it feels to the Carcass player like they're right on the edge of defeat and to the other player it feels like they got dismantled with no hope of victory

I have experience with Carcass but also bias

[pseudo flicker]

I play against carcass like every second game

[junior elbow]

They are popular

[junior elbow]

Holy nuke?

[pseudo flicker]

Holy nuke

I play fast nuke, a friend of mine played long nuke and idk how to counter it if you are not something specific

Nuke is

Holy body

Turn 1 - antipriest censer

Turn 2 - grand oath, 3 vit inti strength

Turn 3 - indignate 3 targets, dealing 2 holy damage to each ignoring walls

Thats the fast nuke

What my friend did was

[junior elbow]

So just Indignation, then?

The Indignation build

[pseudo flicker]

Turn 1 censer
Turn 2 censer
Turn 3 oath
Turn 4 ablutions

Round 2 was also ablutions with desire to chain multiple indignations into themselves on roun 3+

[pseudo flicker]

Yea the holx nuke xd

[pseudo flicker]

Which ill be real, is just a wincon

[night hedge]

also this is wrong, any time a unit dies for the first time provided it's not obliterated you get soul. no limit on number of times a round this can happen

[pseudo flicker]

I am unsure what to do with it if you are not like, carcass

[night hedge]

oh right yeah strength applies. in that case you're easily sitting at 5 devil damage there just from trait, let alone ammo goblin stuff

[junior elbow]

Carcass can snipe the Holy Body out of existence but otherwise yeah

[pseudo flicker]

No need to snipe even, one lucky deathmark makes it unusable

[junior elbow]

Also true

[pseudo flicker]

But wtf fp like

Goregrinders do lmao

[junior elbow]

Most other houses struggle to get past 1 damage, let alone get to 3

[night hedge]

gore grinders can chip through vitality with warheads, painwheels get tonnes of strength, berserker can generally shred stuff

but it's also a hella tough match up

like, no two ways around it

there's ways to play for a win but it's at disadvantage

at least blood rage gives strength when going to 0

[spice stag]

If 2 thralls count as 1 unit then wouldn't you only get 1 soul for them dying per round?

[night hedge]

two units per slot with thralls

[junior elbow]

More thralls = more soul

[night hedge]

it's kinda the point of them to be generating soul yeah

[spice stag]

Hm I see

[junior elbow]

Most high soul builds have a thrall squad

[zinc solstice]

yeag

[primal nest]

As a gargamox player this scares me

[junior elbow]

Just survive to round 3 :)

[zinc solstice]

you want them thralls to die at a steady pace so you can distract your foes while setting up for the big fuck you moment of your choice

such as: DEVIL IMPACT

[junior elbow]

Wait

[primal nest]

well its mostly just like

[night hedge]

MOX POPULI is so so so good

[junior elbow]

Melt can still be reduced

Hmmm

[night hedge]

i had my opponent pull it on me and just

goddam

[primal nest]

penitents dunk on plague

[night hedge]

yeah by vit

[primal nest]

i feel rushing down the exorcist with scourge might be the best play against abhorrers

[junior elbow]

Ah you run leech and give strength

[primal nest]

yeah

[junior elbow]

Success

[primal nest]

an then you just stop bopping

[junior elbow]

But yeah it's also like, you have to make a counter build

[primal nest]

ye its weird

[spiral gale]

I managed to get a max populi but by that point i’d let the lycan buff up with vit and str… pretty fun ability though

[primal nest]

mea culpa just like

fuck

[junior elbow]

Or find some way to ignore the Holy Body

Don't stand in the fire

[primal nest]

well there goes most of my damage output

[pseudo flicker]

They snort it up just like they snort glue

[umbral cipher]

Let's not do gluesniffer jokes here, please

[spiral gale]

the hazard setting with them is crazy. it’s a pretty great counter to blood rage in the goregrinder match up

[pseudo flicker]

Replace glue with any other drug because them injecting antrax to get positive tokens out of it is silly

They are in general silly

In a fun way

Goofy goobers

[primal nest]

i wish to put them in the pear wiggler

to atone for their crimes

[night hedge]

pentitent vs garg

[pseudo flicker]

Theyd enjoy it

[primal nest]

true

[stoic gate]

Great Satania? more like SNOOOOORT

i haven’t tried garbanzo yet but how’s their matchup against abhorrers?

*gorgamox lol

[primal nest]

Pretty hard I’d say

[pseudo flicker]

Arent they actually straight up immune to plague?

[primal nest]

Mea culpa can clear plague tokens

[pseudo flicker]

I mean damage from plague

[primal nest]

No

It goes through vit

[pseudo flicker]

Is it unreducable?

[primal nest]

Yup

[pseudo flicker]

Makes sense, wouldve been very silly if it wasnt

[primal nest]

You will get your curse of gargamox

[zinc solstice]

The major point is that Penitents gotta be careful in how much poison they're sucking else any bad roll makes you explode

[primal nest]

Well

They could roll a six

[pseudo flicker]

Theyd still be down to 1

[primal nest]

And just clear it all lol

[pseudo flicker]

Either way, even if plague gets them

Since nothing is reduced, no vitality gets removed

[primal nest]

Yep

[pseudo flicker]

So you still need to deal 3 damage at once to dent them

[primal nest]

And then still gotta deal with miracle

[pseudo flicker]

And then its miracle time

[primal nest]

Yeah garg unfortunately has none of that

[pseudo flicker]

Which depending on how telegraphed you make your move might be just 2+

[primal nest]

The max dmg on any move is 1, and strength is hard to come by on those guys

[stoic gate]

i guess you just have to rely on SOUL at that point

which is evidently my mantra every time i fight abhorrers

[pseudo flicker]

I lowkey think abhorrers are probably gonna get nerfed

Although idk how

[primal nest]

Tom said he was looking at AoE vit gain

[stoic gate]

tbh prob their vit economy is their cheesiest sticking point

every game i get a line of penitents and anti priests buffing the whole front with vitality

[zinc solstice]

The major thing Gargleblaster could do against Abhorers is plaguing itself instead of trying to poison them

[stoic gate]

i wouldn’t say abhorrers are broken tho they just have good matchups against more factions than most do

[primal nest]

Although if scum ever get that super armor change…

[glacial junco]

Igorri here, may i please have a 2 damage move i'm normal and can be trusted

[primal nest]

No

You will take you 4 damage lycan and you will like it

[glacial junco]

How can lycan deal 4?

Am i missing something?

[primal nest]

Strength plus bloody slashes

[pseudo flicker]

I wont call them broken too

[real bane]

kid named physical armor:

[pseudo flicker]

Its just that either mathematically some factions kinda end up sitting there

[primal nest]

And while yes it does get dunked on by armor

[zinc solstice]

"What is this thing twitching under your jacket, Igorri"
"A perfectly normal third arm with nothing added to it, trust me"

[pseudo flicker]

And are physically unable to deal even a single point of damage

[primal nest]

It also makes me very afraid

[glacial junco]

No for real

Like we have 2 magic attacks and one is an upgrade and the other is a necro ability

But maybe i've just rolled bad

There is always that possibility

My dogs dont preform well.

[zinc solstice]

while understandable, the major thing always will be: Igorri is 100% capable of just springing too many fake-strenght dice out of nowhere and clap gods by sheer numbers regardless of resistances.

[stoic gate]

have you tried 5 dogs at once

[real bane]

Kid named max two dogs:

[primal nest]

Yeah that could also affect too

My deadsouls friend has just had terrible luck

Barely any doom or weak proca

[real bane]

Scour Flesh, Biotoxin Injector, Mutagen Injector and Chaos Beam?

[glacial junco]

Ok good

so

How many of those can i use in a round

[pseudo flicker]

Doesnt work on abhorrents as well tho

[real bane]

At most three

with two chop docs

[pseudo flicker]

The only counter igorri have is strigois suck

[glacial junco]

2 chop docs with upgrades

[primal nest]

Yeah strigoi seems ignorable for the most part

[stoic gate]

simple igorri strategy: by turn 4 have combined 16 tokens on your homonculus/necromancer and sample genome it onto your lycan

[real bane]

lycan dies round 1

[primal nest]

Seems like you just take em to regurgitate turn 1 to set up lycan bloodgorger

[zinc solstice]

Still
Kid named 8 Stitches and an Humunculus:

[glacial junco]

I'm glad i'm not the only one struggling

[stoic gate]

5 rounds of regurgitate, 1 round of sun eater last night

[primal nest]

Damn lol

Man’s need some pepto bismol

[glacial junco]

My matchs have been against garg so maybe I need to expand my games to other players than the normal gaming group

[primal nest]

In actually curious as to how well garg is doing here?

[glacial junco]

i'll see about changing it up. I just feel like Igorri while still my favorite have been solved in terms of players knowing how to kneecap me

[glacial junco]

@short estuary

[pseudo flicker]

I want to playtest my homebrew with more people 🫠

[primal nest]

Cuz I got dunked on by Igorri on first game with them

[pseudo flicker]

Oh i got dunked so hard lmao

[glacial junco]

So did he, but he's really been crushing me ever since

[primal nest]

Granted, I didn’t realize how dangerous homunc and lycan were

[short estuary]

Licherrally same

[primal nest]

But even still

[spiral gale]

yeah I got dunked by Igorri too

[short estuary]

I feel like I only recently "figured them out" and by that I mean ran necrocide

And 2 rotten

[primal nest]

Actually finishing off the chirurgeon as mox seems really goddamn hard

[short estuary]

I think it's not actually possible assuming they have reasonable vit gen

[primal nest]

Cuz of 10 hp and ward +vit

[glacial junco]

I think killing my necro should be hard

I'm a bit bias there tho

Since they are a support peice vs like Opeprator or warlord

[pseudo flicker]

Counterpoint
You got a cool necro token
I dont want to kill them :<

[primal nest]

Tempted to see how I fair not that I’m running scourge

[zinc solstice]

now that i'm properly reading them, tho
funny to see that the Chirurgion has a transporter

[pseudo flicker]

Operator is such a mongrel dog of the empire like holy moly

[glacial junco]

Ty @proven flame did it for me check em out

Ih shit sorrt for @ lmao

[pseudo flicker]

Exorcist 90% is just a fat antipriest while this mf ignores bodyblocks and is in general a killing machine

[primal nest]

Actually question

[austere ravine]

Yeah I basically didn't get any Doom to proc in my game until right at the end of round 4 where I Doomed the Operator.

[primal nest]

Can you use sample genome to give tokens from an ally to the necro?

[glacial junco]

Yeah

But for like one really strong beam.

[primal nest]

Or a shitton of mutation and vit

[glacial junco]

Ok sure yes but that means strength isnt being generated

Which means i'm not killing

[primal nest]

Yeah

[glacial junco]

Which is almost always needed to be happening

[primal nest]

It just seems really easy from what I experience to what I heard from others for moxvs Igorri to end in a draw

[glacial junco]

It does and has but not for objective games

Like Bloodgrinder

which might be why there is a disconnect here, we normally play more than just duels

[primal nest]

Yeah we have mostly been playing duels in our friend group

mainly because our matches have been taking so long

fuckin 2 hours to round 3

[glacial junco]

Ours do too lmao

Deep thinkers

[primal nest]

Yup

[zinc solstice]

honestly, the only issue for me in Abhorers is the random but possibly recurring nature of Miracle.

[pseudo flicker]

i prefer the current state of miracle over say the state of reanimation protocols

as a killteam necron player

[primal nest]

How does that work in killteam?

[pseudo flicker]

to put it shortly, it is very strong xd

when a guy dies for the first time, you may use what is essentially a free soul action to mark them for reanimation

and they will come back eventually

they roll to return every round start until they return

the downside is that you can only mark one guy per round and only once per guy

bit rusty on the rules now

it just created such panic in the opponent because necrons are kinda hard to kill already, and kill you very easily

[primal nest]

Ahhh

[pseudo flicker]

example given, a sergeant in my team, despotek, killed 4 models in enemies roster in 2 rounds. alone

then he died

and immediately came back

[proven flame]

bfksjdjsk take an @ back, dummy

[pseudo flicker]

and he can come back in "conceal" which mean you cant shoot at him

and then its his turn

and he flips from concealment

and shoots you

the fact that the only way he doesnt come back after being marked is if the game itself ends is extremely silly

it fits the necrons a lot tho

but yea i think miracle is fine as is?

[stoic gate]

i find miracle as a high-roll invuln save to be hilarious

[umbral cipher]

A 30% chance to come back (with a way to make it way more likely) on what are already very durable units is pretty sick

[stoic gate]

the 4+ adjacent to necromancer can be a bit scream-throw-a-chair-inducing tho

[zinc solstice]

I'd like it to not be recursive/be guaranteed but only once, but in some way that isn't just Bloodrage

[stoic gate]

in a…good…way

[primal nest]

It also does kinda lead into the fantasy of it

It’s a ‘miracle’ afterall

[pseudo flicker]

i think a fine nerf would be just moving it up 1 degree

6+ normally, 5+ with necro, 3+ with delay judgement

ill be real i had my units die like uhhh

[stoic gate]

6+? seems harsh to me as a gut reaction

[pseudo flicker]

twice i think

and i played 5 or so games of abhorrers

[zinc solstice]

Necro 1 "I'm gonna kill you"
Exorcist: *Bodyblocks* "lol no"
Penitent being used as a meatshield: *Miracles* "lol neither"

[silent sluice]

I mean there's the other side where people have reported games with 0 Miracle triggers

it's just rng

[pseudo flicker]

if your penitent miracles that has to be some incredibly chonky damage in the first place

[stoic gate]

rng in my dice game??

[pseudo flicker]

i just played a carcass match in which they hit zero shots 🫠

they rolled snake eyes TWICE

[last crow]

Yeah insta-obliterate abilities and whatnot are godsends against Abhorrers

Otherwise good luck can make 'em damn-near impossible to drop.

[stoic gate]

this is where goregrinders tend to clutch up

[last crow]

but Miracle does only proc on a 5+ unless they're next to their Necro

[last crow]

Igorri too

[pseudo flicker]

goregrinders perform the worst against abhorrers in my experience as abhorrers

[last crow]

Hugemonculus' Absorb says hello

[pseudo flicker]

it physically cant damage a penitent one with vitality

[silent sluice]

Question, how do you handle Miracle if someone is standing on top of the corpse?

[primal nest]

Corpse stack

[last crow]

Set yourself up for it then

[stoic gate]

you have to frontline your necro and tyrant as goregrinders or it’s tough to beat abhorrers i will say

[last crow]

Or use the Chirurgeon's funny Recycle move if it's something you really want gone

[primal nest]

Oh wait no I see what you mean now

[stoic gate]

but i have something in my brain with pain wheels and pain ghouls that’s cooking

[pseudo flicker]

ill be real i just bullied the berserker as much as i could with holy water xd

[primal nest]

Someone moving onto the corpse

Huh

[pseudo flicker]

yeah that one works

you just run over the necro until they die

[stoic gate]

prob just reject their movement as if the unit were still alive

[silent sluice]

oh also, as written, you don't need a corpse for Miracle to trigger, right? Obliterate just prevents it because it doesn't count as being slain

[pseudo flicker]

but its countered by corpse violet stance

fuck thats a shitty typo lmao

[primal nest]

Yeah obliterate ignores on kill effects in general

[silent sluice]

I'm thinking of other things like the ones that turn the corpse into a hazard or a wall

[stoic gate]

what’s that one do again?

[pseudo flicker]

select armor on turn 4

warheads are also countered by positioning

[primal nest]

Oh god right

[stoic gate]

yeah yikes. you’ll still be doing at least 1 damage with strength tokens tho no? for the painwheels

[primal nest]

well there goes rushing down necro as mox lol

[pseudo flicker]

if the antipriest is dead, sure

[last crow]

Unless they have Vitality

[pseudo flicker]

its just

not really effective xd

my goregrinder friend says its viable-ish but also very boring

because theres not really any interaction happening

you just run over hoping to chip away mr incredible

[last crow]

Mr. Incredible?

[stoic gate]

i read miracle as an invuln save so i wouldn’t say they can be corpse-manipulated til after miracle resolves because they’re not fully slain.

The other alternative is letting the miracle’d unit play as a wall walking around

[last crow]

That's gonna stick in my brain the next time I fight Abhorrers

[primal nest]

Yeah don’t you know Mr incredible is a devout catholic

It was brought up in the 2nd movie

[last crow]

Honestly I've just been referring to the Catholic Abhorrer Necro as Bishop Alexander

Iiiii never got around to watching the second movie

Probably should

[primal nest]

This is a bit btw lol

[pseudo flicker]

oh i have a full on twitter oc for an abhorrer necro lmao

[last crow]

Honestly I was ready to just believe you lmao

[stoic gate]

no you’re thinking of that one zootopia fan comic

[last crow]

I have OCs for my CARCASS and Igorri necros

[primal nest]

Oh you’re right

Damn

I don’t wanna think about that

[pseudo flicker]

here we go
this is the Wingtaker
She is a masochist that collects wings of the dead angels and grafts them to her body in order to become divine

[primal nest]

Imma just not thing about that

[pseudo flicker]

I run 3 penitents in her mass

[stoic gate]

https://tenor.com/view/creepy-cow-gif-19489323

[last crow]

That is exceedingly cool and the art is excellent

[pseudo flicker]

i call a lot of people that
i would usually call a penitent one that but since i got 3 its kinda redundant

in killteam i often jokingly called my despotek mr incredible

[primal nest]

Just call them similar names

Monsieur Unbelievable

[pseudo flicker]

in one match he managed to kill 2 custodes, 1 of which in melee, died, got up, started running, outran the last one, and then charged him with a bayonet and murdered the guy

like holy shit what was this guy on

[last crow]

Seven kinds of Necrocoke by the sound of things

[primal nest]

Smoking that robo bonez zaza

Had to remind them that he’s him

[stoic gate]

my goregrinder warlord is named Linux Goreblade. Her mother was a slayer of gods who taught her from a young age how to repurpose every magical part of a person’s bones and sinew into weapons of war. Her father was a software engineer who often cited “sorry guys it’s not compatible on proton” as a reason for not playing League with his friends

[pseudo flicker]

its 3 penitents, an antipriest and a holy body

[real bane]

I need to get faster at this

[primal nest]

Ty ence

You are a real one

[pseudo flicker]

thankies
i added her and factional recolors as necromancer styles you could run on the tabletopsim mod xd

[primal nest]

I do gotta finish art for my mox necro at some point

Been slowly chippin away at it

[last crow]

👀 Iiiinteresting

[zinc solstice]

For now calling my warlord SPINEBREAKER and he's just that sort of thrillseeker hooligan willing to prove he can and will overcome any drunk bet. Including soloing the sorts of abominations you can find lurking in the deeper ends of the city.

[pseudo flicker]

you know what this game needs imo

[stoic gate]

front lining your warlord is the way

[primal nest]

Wha

[pseudo flicker]

campaign/specops/crusade/whatever you call it rules

I love silly metaprogression

[lethal trench]

sick art

[primal nest]

Iirc a long while back Tom talked about solo and coop modes

[pseudo flicker]

I dont remember if frostgrave features metaprogression, but i think it does, and frostgrave feels like a big inspiration for maleghast

[primal nest]

Frostgrave?

[pseudo flicker]

frostgrave is a skirmish wargame in which you control a mage and a squad of dudes that they command

[silent sluice]

Playlist for my Deadsouls roster https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1XTboTpPId9P_B0RKWL3DvmbMyvC3qYU

[primal nest]

Damn that is a description lmao

[silent sluice]

I didn't make it lol

[zinc solstice]

Y A N K I N

[pseudo flicker]

it also features a lot more narrative driven games, as in, it is less of "kill the other guy" and more of "heres a dungeon full of traps in which you are fighting"

[zinc solstice]

The layers between both being a faction heavily focused on pulls and you being completely dead inside are impecable.

[dusky jetty]

ence these are ingenious... love to see loop hero assets used for this tbh

[glacial junco]

@primal nest Ey we are using your map whats the Coffins on your maps?

[primal nest]

Elevated terrain

[glacial junco]

So they are elevated terrain and so is the Darker gray zones the stairs go into?

[primal nest]

Just like in the book

[primal nest]

You playing on greater necropolis?

[glacial junco]

Yeah

2V2

Looks busy

[primal nest]

Oh ye that map has some custom rules lol

Forgot to put them in the drive

[glacial junco]

Throw em my way please~

[primal nest]

Here you go

Darker gray tiles are lowered spaces. The stairs here are low stairs

Hope y’all have fun!

Gotta make that key doc at some point

[stoic gate]

this seems crazy. are the coffins just adverse terrain?

[primal nest]

No coffins are elevated

Bones are adverse

[stoic gate]

gotcha ty

[dusky jetty]

i feel like maybe this is an obvious call, but a wall isn't a unit, right? you couldn't use a warhead's Cleave on a wall to automatically hit and splash "another unit" for 1 damage?

[solemn apex]

question, are units allied with themselves?

what counts as a ally?

i cant tell if this is in the book, and im just blind

[spice stag]

Allied units are all units in your Black mass

[solemn apex]

so something that targets "an allied unit", can target itself?

[bright obsidian]

i would say no, probably. generally speaking a unit is not its own ally i n games

[solemn apex]

thanks!

[lyric fog]

...hm
I don't actually see why not? Walls can be targeted like units, Cleave automatically hits... unless I'm missing something I feel like this should work?

[spice stag]

You can do that actually

[glacial junco]

You can't attack an empty space with Egis Mortar can you?

[spice stag]

No

[glacial junco]

Follow up Can strigoi target a space for puking on it since its not an attack?

[spice stag]

Idk haven't played them yet

[primal flame]

Unsure about this as well though I’ve targeted allies with it if that counts

Since it doesnt deal damage, relatively safe option if you ask me

[dusky jetty]

aw hell really? i felt like i got competely crushed playing deadsouls vs goregrinders cuz of that

[primal flame]

Plus if means spare parts can just be used immediately

[spice stag]

Walls can be targeted for attacks which means all effects go off on it like any other unit. All walls have 2 health.

also walls have no defense so all attacks just auto hit them

[primal nest]

What wait

I’m pretty sure you can target empty spaces for splashes

[spice stag]

Has Tom said that. I thought all attacks had to have a unit to target?

[primal nest]

Huh

I figured you could do something like that

That makes mortar way less scary than I thought

[glacial junco]

Its still scary but it shouldn't rule the battlefield imo

[spice stag]

Wait so you can just attack an empty space?

[primal nest]

Yeah that’s what I saw

[stoic gate]

attacks smack characters, abilities smack anything they can

[primal nest]

Ah

[charred glacier]

Alright y'all, I think I remember someone saying units are only effected by terrain once, if I am trying to slog my tyrant across adverse terrain does that mean it costs me +1 move for every space across it that I try to move?

[spice stag]

What the difference between an attack an ability?

[primal nest]

Pustulate stays winning

[stoic gate]

an attack will have the keyword attack

in the tags

[primal nest]

Anything with an attack keyword

[charred glacier]

Non-attacks don't have to roll to hit baybee

[spice stag]

So mortar can't attack free space then?

[stoic gate]

since i have the book in front of me...

[primal nest]

Now this means there’s a deployment setup i can do that only has one of my scum die

[stoic gate]

and while im at it, i find it funny that terrain types stack. i think this means technically walls stack with other things, so corpses dont vanish for igorri purposes

nor do hazards for gorgamox SOUL purposes

if uh...a wall is created

[charred glacier]

thank you!

[glacial junco]

We are playing it as if Attacks cant target empty spaces because otherwise things get dumb

But willing to accept other information if it becomes clearer

[spice stag]

Thats how I've been playing it but would love to see what Tom says

[primal nest]

there

[glacial junco]

Its Igorri gargamox, vs Abhjorrers and carcass

[primal nest]

my scummen are safe

[glacial junco]

Gargamox has lost both rotten by round 2

[primal nest]

oh that is unfortunate

[glacial junco]

Feels like bad

[primal nest]

what do they have left?

[glacial junco]

Here one sec

Red dots have gone (Or denote stacked corpses

[spice stag]

round 11?

[glacial junco]

2

[spice stag]

or 2

lol

mb

[primal nest]

i like the corpse tile

[glacial junco]

Sorry we didn't use your map salt we ended up wanting something with more walls

[primal nest]

thats fine lol

[glacial junco]

For good reason

[primal nest]

it is a more open ended map

[naive glacier]

im considering giving scum super armor for the memes

[primal nest]

YESSSSS

[naive glacier]

gargamaxxing

[glacial junco]

Tom can I attack an empty space?

[spice stag]

Tom real quick can you target empty spaces for attacks

[primal nest]

devious ploys will be had

[stoic gate]

ooh and can you also give goregrinders all 2 damage attacks too

in lieu of tom, i think the rules say pretty clearly that attacks are able to target characters (or exception targets like walls)

[charred glacier]

let's goooo

[charred glacier]

OK y'all, which triggers first, Obliterate or Blood Rage?

[umbral cipher]

Obliterate

It just straight up bypasses things that would trigger on that unit dying

(or going below 1 HP, I guess)

[lyric fog]

It specifies that effects don't trigger from "being slain or reduced to 0 hp"

[umbral cipher]

Right

[glacial junco]

Fun fact

Goregrinders vs carcass hurts the goregrinders

[umbral cipher]

yeah 😔

The big trick for that matchup is to try and just ignore the Enforcers and Egis and murk anything else

Because Goregrinders suck at getting through armour but they can shred the rest of the firing line

[lyric fog]

PAINWHEEL

[glacial junco]

Yeah

[umbral cipher]

Painwheels are stellar for this yes

[glacial junco]

I have to rely on painwheel for that fire damage

But it looks like they are going to skull crack em lots

Skullcrack does 2 damage 😫

[umbral cipher]

also, try putting beserk on the egis or operator

fucks plans up quickly

[primal flame]

Ive yet to try berserking enemy units successfully, I tried it against abhorrers and it didnt go well lol

[glacial junco]

Round 2 starting

[umbral cipher]

You seem to be doin pretty well here tbh

[glacial junco]

I'm worried lol

[charred glacier]

Whoof, ok, so this was a rough game for the Goregrinders for a lot of reasons, but for real, how am I supposed to deal with a three stack of Rotten? They are both So Thick but also So Hazard Generating

[umbral cipher]

Rotten are nasty buggers yeah

[charred glacier]

And in a three stack they are pretty formiddable wall

[glacial junco]

I took the match

But

It was close

I got by with Overclock

And good bodyblocks

[primal nest]

nice

[primal flame]

Grinders SWEEP

[glacial junco]

Like skin of my teeth

[bright obsidian]

all terrain types stack with each other, but you can't create things where walls are

[glacial junco]

Painwheels did indeed carry with Overclock

I also landed a pilebunker hit

That felt good

Trappedr egis first turn by running my carnifex into the line like i posted then the Warhead can charge which SLAPS

[bright obsidian]

i want to run pilebunker but it seems so tough to land

[glacial junco]

Its not worth it. But I love it u3u

[bright obsidian]

you've convinced me

putting it in my list

[lyric fog]

I've never run it, but it seems like it'd pull its weight punching Tyrants

[silent sluice]

Apparently, the pilebunker is better than the chainblade mathematically as long as the target has 4+ or lower defense

Although I'm a little curious to know if the Spine Devil Blade might be better

[primal flame]

So in other words dont take pilebunker against deadsouls

[elfin ermine]

I'd consider Flesh Whip with STR alright against clumps of Abhorrers

requires some set up though

but Abhorrers like to clump

Abhorrer versus Igorri really seems like a matchup where whoever pulls ahead can just crush

[elfin ermine]

Ime the Igorri necro can do some surprising dps once it gets going

more than garg or dead souls

not as much as operator though

[primal flame]

I can somewhat back this up, because i often spent a little too much setting up before getting comfortable playing igorri v abhorrers, and it has resulted my opponent getting enough vitality to outpace my damage

[rain ocean]

Based on the attacks section it seems that attacks are a subset of abilities, which seems like would indicate that they follow the rules for abilities. Which given that abilities can target units or spaces seems that it would imply that attacks being a category of ability can also target units or spaces. Just what I think anyway.

Edit: Though it does specify in that same section that melee attacks can attack adjacent characters and ranged attacks can attack characters within their listed range. Which would imply you have to hit characters.

Edit 2: and yeah in the wall section it has a specific exception for walls being targetable, so I think that it’s pretty heavily implied that attacks have specific character targeting restrictions + walls.

[primal flame]

This was a draw but, effectively a loss lmao

[elfin ermine]

I dont like it because its almost too random to be useful

the odds it'll come up + be super relevant doesn't seem that high compared to some of the garunteed traits

[elfin ermine]

fantastic corpse(?) tokens lmao

[primal flame]

They were hazards actually LOL

my opp had the blessed censer upgrade to deny me corpses for spare parts so the whole map is actually almost corpse free

[stoic gate]

well what if you create a wall where things are (deadsouls)

[spice stag]

does killing you own units give you soul?

I assume yes?

[primal flame]

Id assume so

[elfin ermine]

yeah

[spice stag]

thanks

[lyric fog]

I'm trying to figure out how an attack on an empty square could resolve.
Walls automatically hit, I get that, but I don't see any rules on attacking nothing and so I don't know that there would be a way to trigger any effects.

[rain ocean]

I think you aren’t supposed to be able to attack empty spaces based on what I posted above.

[spice stag]

I've played it to where you have to target units for attacks. it makes the most sense that way.

[stoic gate]

i think it clearly says attacks can attack characters, but abilities can target any target within range and line of sight

[soft egret]

If you deal damage with a splash/line effect and you have strength tokens, do you spend a strength for each unit hit, or just 1 for the whole splash/line

[primal flame]

1 for each unit hit, though if I recall you can choose which hit units to spend the tokens on

Just as long as you actually spend them

So if you got like a line 4 ability and are hitting 3 units with 2 str tokens

You must spend those 2 str tokens on at least 2 of those units in the line, but you can choose which of them to spend the tokens on

[fathom phoenix]

who's the source of damage for Bone Shards damage? is it the ammo goblin, the pusher/puller, or the unit themselves? like, if the goblin had Strength and used bone shards on a target, and then another unit pushed that target, would the Strength apply?

[devout pulsar]

Goblin imo

But I don’t think you can apply strength to the damage

[primal flame]

For a melee focused Exorcist what traits/act/soul abilities would yall recommend? Mostly for spite malice but up to loathing too

Figuring I build around a roster of 2 penitents, 2 zealots, and 1 antipriest

[shut scarab]

Drew up a concept for my Carcass operator.

[stoic gate]

winter rose stance is the best trait if you have a lot of support with vitality already imo

idk about the other ones

the holy water flail seems neat

[primal flame]

Havent really considered the flail, it does kinda look neat. Thats at least guaranteed hazards at R4+ taking winter rose stance for sure

Also considered the relic lance, means guaranteed 2 damage at R4 before the godsword gets 3 damage at R5 if paired with winter rose

[lethal trench]

Holy Water Flail is great IME

[timid orchid]

in the statblock for each necromancer, it says "add one more" for each section (traits, soul, active). is that free or does that cost dark power.

[primal flame]

Thats free

[lethal trench]

The first one is free

[timid orchid]

ok.

[primal flame]

Its after you take those, ACT and SOUL abilities start costing dark power

[lethal trench]

So you get one extra trait, Act, and Soul

[timid orchid]

wow necromancer are going to be very full of stuff when you get to 10 or 12 dark power.

[lethal trench]

Yeah

[primal flame]

Yeah, I havent played ultrahell yet and I can only imagine the amount of shit you gotta track given you got 12 dark power on TOP of 2 possible upgrades per unit

[lethal trench]

Though action economy and Soul restraints mean the added power from more options isn't as much of an increase

[timid orchid]

specifically at 10 that means you have at minimum 5 upgrades from DP, 2 from free upgrades, and then the 2-3 base active/soul abilites.

[tiny fulcrum]

10 imo, definitely leads to bloat

12 ironically won't due to double unit upgrades

[timid orchid]

thats what i was thinking.

[pseudo flicker]

You actually can, the question is why would you do that

You are already guarantees to deal this 1 bit of damage with a graze even if you miss

[dusky jetty]

clearing 2 weak on one act without having to disengage :'[

[pseudo flicker]

i would pat you on the back for being smart if you did that xd

[primal flame]

abhorrer necro rough sketch

[pseudo flicker]

thats is so cool....

[primal flame]

Channeling all my 40k energy into this one

[hexed horizon]

Is that a chainsword made of shuriken?

[primal flame]

Yeah i tried to make the blades emulate the whole star shape theme the abhorrers seem to have going

[hexed horizon]

that fukken owns

[primal flame]

thank you

[primal flame]

here i got an update

[night hedge]

is that cross shaped top surgery

[primal flame]

It totally could be

[night hedge]

v cool

[wet sinew]

<@&1169764878454620231> Could do a game or two in TTS, could also do roll20 but I don't know how to set up there

[inner finch]

They’re so coool

[devout pulsar]

Sure i can play

[small locust]

Chain sword is a nice touch

[devout pulsar]

TTS works fine what malice level?

[pseudo flicker]

I just write whatever upgrades i get on the table directly xd

You can also spawn in a notepad tool

A friend of mine writes them in ujit6name or desc

[candid monolith]

thats so fuckin cool

[primal flame]

Im glad yall seem to like my funny lil guy (i still have yet to name them)

[candid monolith]

Do what I did make him have an extraordinarily stupid name

[primal flame]

Randomizing a bunch of cool sounding words and frankensteining them together lmao

[candid monolith]

My mans 『𝚃𝙴𝙽 𝚃𝙷𝙾𝚄𝚂𝙰𝙽𝙳 𝚂𝙰𝙲𝚁𝙸𝙵𝙸𝙲𝙴𝚂 𝚃𝙾 𝚃𝙷𝙴 𝙰𝙻𝚃𝙰𝚁 𝙾𝙵 𝚃𝙷𝙴 𝙷𝙰𝙽𝙶𝙴𝙳 𝙼𝙰𝙽』 (birth name redacted)

[primal flame]

That is rad as fuck

[zinc solstice]

Aka

"Unleash your inner Abyssal Exalted player"

[candid monolith]

One must be maximum edge at all times

[zinc solstice]

Or be exceedingly horny

Possibly both

[candid monolith]

I just like being comically over the top

[zinc solstice]

Valid, i've named my blorbo SPINEBUSTER and have no right to criticize.

[shut scarab]

Getting a bit of pose variety going for my ammo gobs

[ocean bloom]

Bust dem spines

[wet sinew]

Gargamaxxing hard rn, Infect is ridiculous against CARCASS

[devout pulsar]

My carcass commander is The White Hand, he is headless and his left hand is a mega buster with something resembling a skull at the end

Definitely a mouth

[wet sinew]

Quick question, when does the army building phase of the game happen? Do you guys have an army built beforehand knowing what the opponent is playing, or do both players build an army accounting for the map and opponent

[zinc solstice]

Usually the former

[devout pulsar]

yeah i kinda have a default list which is what i played in our game

[spiral gale]

we both pick factions and build lists in private after looking at the map

[zinc solstice]

Also. How long usually a match lasts?

[glacial junco]

an hour to 2 for my group

[spiral gale]

1 or 2 hours. We do a lot of mid match discussion.

[bleak folio]

yea 1-2 hours seems to be the consensus

more players = more time spent

[devout pulsar]

yeah this map boned me

which is weird carcass normally do the boning

[glacial junco]

I was surprised our CarcassVGrinders game was as quick as it was but tbf its like chess with those 2 factions.

Wild Slashes seems REALLY good.

[spiral gale]

anyone here played a 2v2 game yet? I’m curious as to what they are like.

[short estuary]

I've played in a few

Things die very fast

It feels like it wants to collapse to effectively a 1v1 + 1 extra necro on each side very quickly

[bleak folio]

my only game so far was a 2v2 lol

[glacial junco]

Our 2v2 games feel bad for one player at the start. in both cases

[short estuary]

I also think it has the potential for more interesting cooperation between the sides but that hasn't materialized yet

[zinc solstice]

"Lets gang up this guy first" effect?

[short estuary]

I think if you're doing 2v2 you want to build your lists with your teammate

[devout pulsar]

yeah i think co-operative roster building is a cool challenge

[bleak folio]

imo 2v2s feel a lot slower even if it only lasts an hour or 2 of gamin

[short estuary]

When one of the guys is carcass with an egis yes lol

[glacial junco]

:Hand Wiggle Emoji:

[spiral gale]

would you say you enjoy 2v2 or does the game work better as 1v1??

[short estuary]

I personally like 1v1 better

I'm not sure I know enough to say it works better that way

[rugged cloud]

Dead souls+Abhorrers vs Carcass+Goregrinders seems like a fun matchup

[devout pulsar]

i've not yet played 2v2

[pseudo flicker]

Gargamaxxing vs Penichad

[spiral gale]

oh yeah for sure still early days. thanks for answering my questions yall

[glacial junco]

Its hard to say.

[rugged cloud]

In general Dead Souls+Abhorrors seems like great friends

The religon boys

[short estuary]

Carcass and Gargamox seems like it could do some work too

Garg can maintain a perimeter to prevent dives

[rugged cloud]

Making SURE this game hits turn 6

[glacial junco]

I think I prefer 1v1 gameplay wise but I'm a big proponent for team skrimish games so

I want to like 2v2 more.

[short estuary]

Let the carcass just blast

[pseudo flicker]

Problem with garg is that their allies interact with plague in a bad way

[short estuary]

I definitely like free for alls (3foralls in particular) least

[short estuary]

Don't get plague on your allies

[pseudo flicker]

Since plague specifies not damaging GARGAMOX, not ALLIES

[zinc solstice]

2v2 and 1v1v1v1 hits the territory where the game stops being just about Murder Chess and becomes necropolitics

[glacial junco]

I think 2v2 needs an objective like GET BONES or DUDES RESPAWN.

[short estuary]

In general I think duel is the least interesting wincon too lol

[pseudo flicker]

Gargamox has a lot of death farts

[short estuary]

Skill issue

Do not die

[pseudo flicker]

So yea carcass seems like the only viable ally

[short estuary]

Or don't run those units

[glacial junco]

Otherwise its just kinda kicking oneguy while the other tried to either help them recover/Build up their force (Which then has to fight 2 teams)

[pseudo flicker]

Or you cam be based

[spiral gale]

as someone who really enjoys Deadsouls, I really like duel

[pseudo flicker]

Garhamaxxing+goregrinders

[devout pulsar]

but yeah infect is rough on carcass

[pseudo flicker]

Run im with deathfarters

[devout pulsar]

oh you're all wrong

double one faction

double up

[pseudo flicker]

Run them over with painwheels

[short estuary]

Double garg

The dream

This is our swamp

[glacial junco]

So I guess thats what my take away is, 2v2 deathmatch not as fun as 1v1 deathmatch. but 2v2 objective is fun

i don't have a shrek emoji i like rip

[short estuary]

I have a few but I am nitroless

[glacial junco]

Anyway Painwheels rule. I love my fromsoft friends

[spiral gale]

YES. Seeing the reference warmed my heart.

[glacial junco]

Pilebunker rules, It should be buffed to do devil damage too (This is a joke)

[zinc solstice]

Double Garg
Both run an army of 8 scums

Both run Mox Populi

[short estuary]

Interesting thought but I'm more interested in 6 rotten

[zinc solstice]

Valid

[short estuary]

2 slimes as a treat

[zinc solstice]

Deadsouls: "anyways, here's wall"

[devout pulsar]

i'd decided if i were to run a tournament i'd decide all the maps for rounds beforehand to show the players so they know what they're building for but randomise the rounds for the maps

then require all lists to be submitted before round one

[short estuary]

I have not fought deadsouls but if infect can jump to and from walls I think I have some ideas about dealing with them

[spiral gale]

so like a map pool?

[short estuary]

Although they're covered in ward which makes them a mox counter

[devout pulsar]

yeah basically cc

[pseudo flicker]

Abhorrers and garg could also work fine

Actually very good

[devout pulsar]

it'd suck to build a team then struggle into a map

[pseudo flicker]

Gargs fart, abhorrers mra culpa

[devout pulsar]

at least with a pool you've some idea what you could run into

[spiral gale]

just checked and infect references characters. so depends how much personality your walls have

[short estuary]

You can attack walls and attack text references characters

[devout pulsar]

well there are people in my walls

[spice stag]

I was thinking the same thing yesterday. I always give my opponent the map before they send their Black Mass

[short estuary]

Without further clarification it's not 100% clear

Need maleghast for sickos

[devout pulsar]

it'd be the only way that'd be fair if you're requiring fixed lists

[pseudo flicker]

I cook my map on the spot and always end up fucking myself over by it xd

[devout pulsar]

which is what i think would be right for tourneys

[spice stag]

I don't think you need to have a fixed list before hand but only a fixed house

[pseudo flicker]

I think fixed lists are fine

[spice stag]

Then you roll initiative and players can place their pieces

[devout pulsar]

i like fixed lists requires you to build in such a way thinking about what could show up

[spice stag]

Oh yeah and fixed act/ability upgrades

[pseudo flicker]

Makes it more fun

And creates an idea of a narrative

[devout pulsar]

fwiw i don't think fixed houses is wrong just like fixed lists more

[spice stag]

Fixed lists could work if all sides know what each other are taking

[short estuary]

Some lists feel like pretty hard counters to others is my main concern

[spice stag]

Exactly

[devout pulsar]

well that's part of the skill of building for fixed lists

[short estuary]

Frankly some houses feel like pretty hard counters to others

[spice stag]

If i take the wrong bonus trait/act/ability it would suck

[pseudo flicker]

Heres a cracked idea
Have semi finals be a 2 v 2,and finals a 1v1 between winning team

[short estuary]

In theory but in practice I'm not sure you can actually overcome some of the counters

[devout pulsar]

ok but then the same problem exists for fixed houses

so like

[short estuary]

It sure does

[spice stag]

Not really

[short estuary]

I think it's less so but I think there's still some there

[devout pulsar]

if the premise splattin puts forth is true yeah

[zinc solstice]

Goregrinders + Igorri

[devout pulsar]

and you're always gonna have tougher matchups

[pseudo flicker]

All houses counter others and get countered by others
Having it be fixed lists sponsors people cooking up a way to defend themselves, as instead of going full in on a combo "oh its garg, i can make a roster that disabled them completely" you kinda just cope

[devout pulsar]

when you build your list do you do it so you can deal with your terrible matchups