Nebulous: Fleet Command

[restive monolith]

Idk how many I could have to get the 3k points but you get that I'd go for the 3k points

I just dunno much about fleet editor stuff

[oak shell]

Rail array fleets go for 5 or 6 railstones I think

[restive monolith]

Wow

I was messing around in the editor n got to like 700 points on a single keystone or maybe I had an unedited sprinter hull too but idk how I'd get to that many

[oak shell]

You can get a railgun keystone down to 500 points if you really work at it

[restive monolith]

Ah

[edgy dove]

Mine's 400 points with a +50% fire rate of EREGs

[glad aurora]

How cringed you make your keystone inherently is a "how much do I trust my team" question - and even then rail arrays should not exist outside of 5v5s

[wet root]

You can get a Railstone down to 445+ammo points while keeping max RoF, the one I run with my Axford + misc assets goes for 487 for a bit of redundancy

[edgy dove]

427pts 2EReg+1SEReg -47% reload time

[wet root]

Max RoF gets -62% with 3xEReg+2xSEReg, though IMO the last SEReg is optional, it only gives -3%

2/1 gets 7.6RPM, 3/1 is 9.7, 3/2 is 10.5

[edgy dove]

Well yea but I want to keep my radar for awareness reasons

[wet root]

Definitely fair

[glad aurora]

yeah, as much as I support gigacringing rail arrays, I think at least a radar and a chaff box are mandatory.

[wary flame]

If you're running a whole group you can put those on only one of the DD group, which helps

[wet root]

100% for arrays, I don't bother with either when running a solo Railstone alongside an Axford since the fleet usually has 2+ other spotting aspects

[edgy dove]

Mine isn't an array I bring one as a support for my battleship builds

[jagged nest]

Little boop
Sorry. I've not been around too much.
I'm struggling with my fleets. Partly due to my response time being far slower than everyone else. Due to playing on a ~14 year old computer.

[edgy dove]

👏

[glad aurora]

team suicided 3k inside first three minutes, zero scouting, zero intel, zero caps

no reason for me to be in that game anymore

the dualcello wanted to also charge directly onto C, I told him "don't do it or you'll die instantly," so what does the azurite do? charge directly onto C

we tell him, once we notice, "don't do that"

he keeps going

instantly lose half our frontline

then the plas/100 decides it's a genius idea to send a LN out into deep space without waiting for me to move to support and with zero intel, also giving you a frontline ship for free

IDK what more you wanted me to do there, sit back and watch the rest of my team int too?

[edgy dove]

inting into the entire team probably didn't help

[glad aurora]

yeah either I solo you or I get out of that shitshow earlier

¯_(ツ)_/¯

you had intel on me, your team had a carrier, the rest of my frontline drove off into narnia, so I either win that engagement, die in it while doing some semblance of damage, or die to the bombers later

[wicked mirage]

<@&942093958551588904> PTB gaming?!

[oak shell]

I could do so

[wet root]

I probably don't have time for a match right now :(

[oak shell]

Need a few minutes

[wicked mirage]

Yippee!

[toxic crag]

btw, MDAB made cheese crash out and everyone considers that a reasonable one, so it may get changed or removed

[edgy dove]

Hardly a crash out more just bewildered how it could be seen as anything but a bad idea

The actual crashout was hunter for getting all the thruster 1s knocked out in a sprinter ball by a single MD MN

[junior heron]

<@&942093958551588904> Boat Night (a minute early)!
I presume we'll be on main, as it's been hard to get test branch games, though I haven't checked recently.

[toxic crag]

the DLO peeps are going to be around also so you might be able to get PTB somewhat soon (~a hour)

[junior heron]

@wicked mirage should probably hop out of the lobby if you're out.

[wet root]

(Unless you're able to play just not VOIP)

[wicked mirage]

Oh shit sorry

my bad

[junior heron]

@wet root

[junior heron]

@wet root just won a game with the mine ruttles, thanks in part to the CMD missiles you suggested.

[mint sinew]

That sounds wild, are you happy to share the fleet?

[wet root]

Excellent

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Winter 2026 PTB Sprint Mine Shuttles' is composed of 10 ships that cost 3000 points:

        The Last Journey Home : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [Rocket Missile PD]
           Knight of the Wind : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [Rocket Missile PD]
            Knight of the Sea : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [Rocket Missile PD]
        Herald of the Scribes : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [Rocket Missile PD]
       To Seek the Far Shores : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [Rocket Missile PD]
            A Favorite Jacket : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [Rocket Missile PD]
                 Silent Steps : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [Rocket Missile PD]
On the Shores of Endless Seas : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [Rocket Missile PD]
        Herald of the Scribes : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [Rocket Missile PD]
                  Battle Drum : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [Rocket Missile PD]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
                 SGM-100 Balestra : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [4pts]
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]

[junior heron]

put together in about a minute, with another ten spent reworking it at least 5 times

Shuttle with:
RCIC, Reinforced Mag, Small DC, RL-18 (18 R-2 Piranha), MLS-9 (5 Auger Sprint Mines), VLS-23 (4 chaff, 1 wake, 1 ceremonial, 7 CMD s1s), Sundrive
copy 9 times

lay a lot of barnacles

I got a lot of use out of trickling in long-range rockets to absorb RPF

and because modern ANS cap fleets are usually so barebones on the sprinters the cmd s1s can hit pretty reliably

Names there are pulling from my new names list, so you can use this to identify my masquerade fleets that shuffle names around each time

[mint sinew]

I for one am appreciating the rise of offensive S1s for cap warfare

[junior heron]

pre-emptively bumping this open to prepare for the coziest neb night I'll ever play

[mint sinew]

Afraid no cozy boats for me today

[junior heron]

nooo

[glad aurora]

I am here 👍

[junior heron]

<@&942093958551588904> Merry boat night!
I'm seeing some lobbies filling up on main, but I am interested in PTB - there's some new maps on the DLO server that have been interesting to try out.

[simple drum]

how about joining the fight night? :p

[junior heron]

I admittedly don't pay too much attention to the main nebcord's events, what's their fight night looking like?

[edgy dove]

But it's modded

giga crigne

[glad aurora]

ah, if we're doing PTB I'm probably not here, I've got no PTB fleets and playing PTB seems pretty hostile to people not on nebmain

[junior heron]

Modded stuff isn't really for me, though I'd appreciate not being an ass (even jokingly) about it.

[wet root]

I'm not really feeling boats today, I'm afraid

[simple drum]

silent hunter, i was uhh, in a matc

[restive monolith]

yall have boat night at my boat midnight

my boat bedtime even

idk much anyway so im still learning lots but if yall wanna play soemtime im like

[restive monolith]

this is my 11pm and i stop playing at 10pm so hit me up like 9pm n i can play 1 maybe 2 matches

hit me up earlier n i can play like 3 matches before the rot sets in and i need to play soemthing else :3

[junior heron]

I can do that!
We used to play earlier so other europeans could make it, then we moved later so the New Zealander could make it easier, and now boat night is in a weird time. But I can ping earlier!

[restive monolith]

idk if ill play today but next weekend ill try

[junior heron]

sounds good, I'm usually pretty busy on sunday anyway.

[sharp crow]

9PM was the old time but I think I was the last european for whom it mattered

[restive monolith]

This game makes my brain hurt if I play it too much. I actually played the cap fleet against ai and I was so overwhelmed doing it but we still won

According to the game I did pretty good with the missile warfare tho I didn't empty every ship and I also just didn't pick my targets properly but whatever.

[sharp crow]

something jogged my memory, but the first act or half or whatever of the campaign was meant to be launching at the end of Q1 of this year, right?

that's only two months....

[junior heron]

yeah

Latest mention was this:

Hey all, sorry for the gap in PTB. I am currently in a final campaign feature sprint which is taking priority so that we can get to thorough testing and polishing. That sprint will conclude at the end of this month and I'll be able to take another crack at PTB. Thanks for your patience.

"this month" being January

Dunno how to extrapolate that to when the update itself will be, but that's the latest news I've heard regarding development.

[sharp crow]

maybe I gotta work myself up to playing a game of this again

[junior heron]

I was tenatively planning to ping early for boat night this week to make timing for @restive monolith , (btw Palolike, did you want to play PvP or are you still figuring out the ropes in PvE?) and also invited some of the CCC regulars who were interested in neb to spectate.

[sharp crow]

all my shit is gonna be a year out of date

[restive monolith]

I'm not any good with pvp for what it's worth but I'm willing to try

Also I can't play today for what it's worth but I could tomorrow

[sharp crow]

the usual day for boat night is saturday

[junior heron]

Yeah, unfortunately I'm not even home for another 4.5 hours during the weekdays, which I think is beyond your available time.

[restive monolith]

Yea

I think next weekend wouod be better as I said I'd play terraria with a friend.

[edgy dove]

Terraria 👀

[wicked mirage]

Hey so how bad are seekerless missiles off Bombers? I know they're hella inaccurate but can I still hit the broadside of a capital ship?

[glad aurora]

nope

(this was intentional)

[quiet quiver]

They also have a funky coding where getting closer does not increase accuracy, they have the same CEP regardless of range

[wicked mirage]

Wild lol

Alrighty fair enough

[junior heron]

<@&942093958551588904> Boat Night a minute early!

also, I invited @red badger and @wooden veldt to come spectate a few days ago.

If you're still interested in spectating, you'll need the Nebulous role to see the voice channels.
You can use ⁨/rank Nebulous: Fleet Command⁩ in bot-stuff to get it

[wet root]

I'll probably meander my way on for game 2

[junior heron]

game 2 soon

[supple sonnet]

Oop, had to finish something up. We'll be there in 5!

TomZero (Tommy, he/him) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) also, I invited @red badger and @wooden veldt to come spectate a few days ago.

[junior heron]

@wooden veldt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WVOuYOjN9Y

[jagged nest]

I've played with seekerless missiles launched off craft.
You have a set 50m of positional error on the missiles. Generally you miss from 60%, and up to 80% of your missiles.

Even into a broadside Solly.

The ONLY time it is worth it. Is when you are using Class B Beaks off bombers. But even then it's awful. You are spending 3k points just to squish a 3k Solly.

FYI, Beaks are 1km/s missiles. And Class B's are nukes that do 2500 damage each.

I'm firing 96 of said Class B nukes to squish the Solly.

[oak shell]

<@&942093958551588904> would anyone like to play?

[wicked mirage]

I gotta get ready for the tutorial I'm running in an hour, if you want though you could help me test some stuff for it real quick?

[wicked mirage]

@junior heron That game was a fever dream xD

[junior heron]

I thought for sure after I wiped 2 entire 18 flights I would have a little room to operate

[glad aurora]

extremely funny how the SDM thing played out

the original thought was that OSP would defend themselves with fighters and ANS would do it with ship-based missiles, but fighters aren't real, so here we are

[junior heron]

I think with the Remise and SDM-1 changes fighters can be real

[glad aurora]

s'not that they can't kill things, s'that they're points not expended on the singular goal of carriers: torturing the enemy team to death with "defeat perfectly or you're dead" strikes

fighters have never been real outside of larping because they don't kill warships, just planes

when they can kill warships they're busted because now they're actually useful (spamto, r2cuda) while also being hilariously cheap for effectiveness (hangar space, points) because the chassis also have to fulfill a role that doesn't exist and demands they be as cheap as possible

what's base channels going to be without missile computer, 1 or 2? because if it's 2 that's just a targeted nerf to S2 bombers

[junior heron]

also, some extra bits:

base channels is 0

[glad aurora]

zero? And it's support socket so it excludes decoys

Jesus.

People must've been blowing up balcon or something.

[junior heron]

it's floated as a way to nerf the opportunity cost of the decoy projector

[glad aurora]

decoy projector is still mandatory, you just have to shift to a mix of act/[cmd] and arad/act now

[junior heron]

I assume the CMD val channels interaction is a bug and will be fixed at some point

[glad aurora]

possibly, or the change'll be reverted

rwr is a very odd way to nerf all craft by 1pt/chassis since you don't use any other avionics slot module anyway

sturgeon buff is nice (they didn't use cmd to begin with), better missile interception should allow escort flechette cudas to perform

curious to see whether the end of SDM spam enables act/[therm] sturgeons to show up again to motivate the return of jam escort and jam tanto

people've been getting too complacent with unescorted BB and greedfords

[wet root]

What is the Lock Accuracy Multiplier? Not sure what that change does

Also I guess you just run one or two RWR craft per formation? Though that's kind of a pain to launch

Also not quite sure what the impact of the prox fuze bug fixes are, is this another "bug fix" that's actually a giant balance change?

[junior heron]

when you get a lock, it multiplies your radar by that I think
My current plan for RWR is to use a skiff as the forward guard to see when they get spotted

[wet root]

Is it a change for if the craft gets locked, or when the craft locks onto something?

[mint sinew]

Lock on

[junior heron]

I think it's to try and make craft better at gunning down missiles

[mint sinew]

You could probably get decent hit rate with CMD HEI onto fighters and containers now with that stat

They were already good enough to hit bombers

[junior heron]

does hei even hit containers?

[mint sinew]

Obviously that means buying a CMD channel back and using something other than SSM1 so I doubt it'll be worth it but a fun curio

[wet root]

It applying to velocity error should also help, if you're not running Free Approach

Hmm, ANS losing SDMs might make Breadstick Claymores more enticing

[wet root]

After 80 Fracturing Blocks into a Vaux with escorts in the testing range:

Each escort has 2 DC teams, so the splash is quite non-negligible

Quite a long range too, when the spotter got within 1.3km it started taking chip damage

[olive blade]

damn

thats something

[junior heron]

other fun thing I learned from spectating: the splash is indiscriminate

so if you drive into the middle of an enemy formation while under MD fire you will splash them

makes sense with how the game is modelled!

just thought it was fun

[glad aurora]

... oh, oof, that's going to be rough

just realized that's basically purpose-made to mess up escorted BBs

[wet root]

It does seem to fall off with either angle or range, not sure which

I wonder what pen the fragments have

[junior heron]

Apparently the MD ricochet also works off terrain

which I personally think is amazing and should stay

[olive blade]

oo

[wet root]

Oh that is nifty

[edgy dove]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/908476894045937664/1460566479350010096/IMG_0797.gif

99% of it’s purpose is to mess up frig/sprinter balls.
The entire reason that mechanic was made is because MD fragmenting is poorly thought out and even worse execution

[wet root]

Looked pretty though!

[glad aurora]

sure, but will people actually use it for that (recall that sprinter/frig balls show up in 1 of 100 games in pubs, all told) or will they use it to take out offset jamming for a BB so they can kill it for free with a CLN?

you'd need a 4tc/arr BH monitor and a MDLN, so at that point you're just counterpicking based on the idea there might be a sprinter blob

[wet root]

I don't think you need that many modules on the BH after the PTB buffs?

[wet root]

I'll need to do more testing on how exactly the angling works but I think you might be safe as long as the escort is hiding behind the target

The claim I saw on the Nebcord is a 100 degree cone facing backwards from point of impact

[edgy dove]

Against frigs you don’t need 4tc, 2tc BH tug works. And sprinters are vulnerable enough that even the occasional hit will deal damage with 2tc. It’s also not even necessarily a counter pick, more giving extra functionality to something that already has another purpose. Escorted BBs aren’t even particularly common these days as extra escorts don’t provide much functionality a BB can’t just bring itself or can provide it from further than the splash radius

[glad aurora]

Has to do it quickly or you die for free in a MDLN to cruise or carrier, so

also escorted BBs aren't common because 20 SDMs will deplane a moorline's bomber wing and the average CLN player is a non-threat

[wet root]

Well, SDMs won't be deplaning a Moorline in the new PTB

Unless you're playing the extremely rare OvO match

[junior heron]

MDs could if you tried very hard

I really hope the terrain fracture stays in.

[wet root]

Do MD fragments hit craft at normal rates? Or is there a modifier like with bombshells?

[rigid bison]

I'm interested for what the sprinter scrongulator md round does to mixxed modded

[glad aurora]

yeah, that's why I'd expect them to come back now that you can't ignore CVs by paying 140pts

[junior heron]

Also, I am playing in-person games with family today so I won't be around for Boat Night today.
I'll be around tomorrow though if folks are interested in playing then!

[wet root]

Ah, rip, have fun with fambly!

[mint sinew]

I also have family adventures today, but could fit a game in tomorrow if we kick off an hour earlier than normal

[edgy dove]

Even if why escort when softkill

Why would I spend 200+ per PD sprinter when I could buy a spyglass frigate or rail destroyer with the points

[glad aurora]

the softkill is why
blanket + defender box to turn off cln and act/therm

[oak shell]

I could do that time.

[oak shell]

<@&942093958551588904> who would like to play in 90 minutes?
📝 Public test branch
🚀 main branch

[junior heron]

me!

heck I'm around now if folks are interested

[restive monolith]

I can watch but won't play

[mint sinew]

I just rolled out of bed. Give me 10min and I'll be with you

[supple sonnet]

We might swing by to watch again. Still waiting for a sale before we pick it up. (Though we could afford full price, honestly...)

Though eh, according to SteamDB we're due for a sale. :P

[junior heron]

I have nothing to back this up, but I'd expect a sale around when the campaign launches, and that was supposed to be some time in q1

yeah

[supple sonnet]

Even just looking at the price history, statistically speaking...

[mint sinew]

Keen for early bonus boat night?

[edgy dove]

Or you could just... dump like 3-4 chaff and not be moving forward

[wet root]

Oh, @edgy dove I realized why I was so confused about your tug being entirely fine - I had been missileing the other player's tug earlier, by the time I found yours I only had my 4 dual-purpose anti-skiff S2H left

So your tug only took 3 S2H, and promptly repaired back up

[edgy dove]

I see

It was structure broken but relatively little actual damage

[wet root]

Sounds about right for a tug lol

I'm curious how intact the other one was after the missiles, I dropped I think 6 missiles into it but it survived enough I did see it running for a cap later

[wet root]

Reminder for @mint sinew to remove one of the intel centers btw

(Assuming that was Fluffy and not Peri that accidentally brought two)

[mint sinew]

What's an intel centre?

[wet root]

A legendary compartment few can claim to have seen

(Going to poke @oak shell since I suspect that means I misremembered who brought them)

[mint sinew]

(it does, I don't usually bring one IC let alone two)

[oak shell]

Oh yeah that was me

Dang, y'all are still playing?

[wet root]

I think it's some people reconvening, I'm just spectating momentarily

[supple sonnet]

Soooooo!
...a friend may or may not have gifted us Nebulous. :D
Expect loads of questions from us tomorrow when we have the time and energy to really start digging into it.

[oak shell]

Welcome to boats!

[supple sonnet]

Decided to run the first set of tutorials before bed.
...Hybrids are fucking terrifying.

[restive monolith]

True!

I gotta play the missileer tutorials sometime

[supple sonnet]

Just finished the last one, and successfully fought our first engagement!
That was a lot to handle; one of the heavy cruisers took a bad hit to the ammo and lost its main gun ammo early in the fight, but the other stood strong and went to town on the enemy Ocello. Poor ship was sitting there getting pummelled by half the fleet by the end.
...I can see why Nebulous has such a harsh learning curve; it's a lot of mental stack.

[glad aurora]

you can restore destroyed compartments

[supple sonnet]

We did what we could with our Restore charges, yeah. Sadly it was still out of the fight pretty early.

[wet root]

Congrats! And yeah, even once you're familiar with the mechanics it takes a lot of thought. Especially if you want to play fleets with more isolated elements!

Personally I still get overwhelmed trying to run any sort of cap or carrier fleet, even with hundreds of hours played

[noble zodiac]

named sierra
plays nebulous
:0 another one of me

(/lighthearted)

[supple sonnet]

Oh hey, a fellow Sierra.

(I figured this would happen eventually. This is what I get for choosing such a common name. :P)

[noble zodiac]

is it that common ???

but ueah welcome to nebulous

or smth

[supple sonnet]

Mmmm, I've seen another Sierra on this server alone.
I feel like I see it a lot as a name.

Gamma, Spreadsheet Sorceress ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) is it that common ???

[noble zodiac]

huh

[sharp crow]

there's like 60K people on this server to be fair

[supple sonnet]

To my knowledge, Gamma is one of the best Nebneb players out there?

I know Pyrope (who does frequent this channel) is her tutor and is definitely one of the best.

[supple sonnet]

Hello neb chat

We play neb (poorly)

[oak shell]

Come play neb with us sometime. You'll be in good company

Pick up the Nebulous role, too

[noble zodiac]

"tutor" is a strong word
we should interact more 3: adhd moment
i'd consider myself okay but nowhere near up to par with any of the proper tryhards - my skills are mostly coasting on being in one of the first waves of playtesters

pyrope is scarygood when she isn't shit-lucking into encountering 75% of the enemy team alone (and even then she holds out pretty damn well afaik)

[supple sonnet]

I remember erm, I was talking with Rorsten, and I mentioned that I learnt how to play from you and he was like "Gamma? That Gamma? "

[noble zodiac]

i also havent played in ages

[noble zodiac]

fascinating

if theres another gamma that'd be wack

[supple sonnet]

Then again I could just be spouting nonsense that never happened, but I'm pretty sure that happened.

[junior heron]

I feel like I've seen at least one other Gamma, though I don't remember if it was in Neb or not.

[wary flame]

I believe there is only one boat related gamma

this channel has a reasonably robust population of decent players, even if I am far from as good as I once was

[edgy dove]

:)

[junior heron]

Misc you're still a light cruiser player in my mind.

[glad aurora]

people's perception of me as either unutterably garbage or terrifying is solely based on their ability to softkill

[wary flame]

I have probably not played a vaux in well over a year

[noble zodiac]

when was misc a vaux player

[junior heron]

pre mmu

[noble zodiac]

isnt misc's thing CLNs

[noble zodiac]

huhh

[noble zodiac]

well ok that and capfleets

[junior heron]

I wish I could search the thread by oldest messages on mobile, would be fun to rediscover some of the old conversations.

I forget if Hurricanes were cruise-able

[wary flame]

I was a vaux player during AvA

which was pretty punishing at times, I admit

[quiet quiver]

Pre-MMU the only cruise missiles were thunderheads

[supple sonnet]

-# I thought Misc's thing was playing that asshole cheeky Sid.

[junior heron]

I thought squalls were too?

[supple sonnet]

Are hybrids still lethal?

-# I have been informed that I've mixed up the two people that joke is relating two. Again.

As in really deadly

[glad aurora]

yes*

[supple sonnet]

Are the little sandshot guns still neccesary then?

[quiet quiver]

Ah right also squalls

[glad aurora]

no, never have been

unless you're talking about AvA or something

[supple sonnet]

I forget what they’re called

Ash And Gold ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) no, never have been

[junior heron]

Sarissa

[supple sonnet]

The anti-hybrid pdws

[junior heron]

they're not necessary but are very nice in the newer craft-heavy environment.

[quiet quiver]

But also people don’t play AvA much

[supple sonnet]

I’ve never played alliance

Oh yeah, Sarissas fill the role of Heavy Gun AA, don't they?

[glad aurora]

auroras are also the anti-hybrid weapons, realistically, sarissa are just a weird niche against small-salvo-size S3H

[supple sonnet]

Do Sarissas hold use for anti-bomber duty?

Would anyone be up to play tonight maybe?

[junior heron]

OSP has Ocellos for sarissa carrying, or 100mm grapeshot for a long range PD weapon.

[supple sonnet]

I want to relearn

Preferably newer or rustier players. We are not good at this game

Malicon Astrid (Meowstrid) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) Would anyone be up to play tonight maybe?

[glad aurora]

only if they're approaching over empty space and are detected before they can launch

[supple sonnet]

Okay, what ANS alternative other than missiles exist for that?

Like, for the long-range bomber disruption role.

[glad aurora]

None.

You bring SDMs (and on PTB, you have a fighter escort or die)

Heavy gun AA has no doctrinal role in Nebulous because Nebulous is heavily cover-based, which does not exist in IRL naval combat.

If someone is approaching you while detected through empty space with bombers, they are playing wrong.

[supple sonnet]

I.. Hm.

[edgy dove]

250RPF

Currently somewhat ineffective but on PTB with the craft manuever nerfs triCL can deplane a carrier if they're not careful

Sure you can say "just pop up and ambush them" but CLs usually want to be in open space anyway

[supple sonnet]

...hmm. Just had our second ever battle and it... didn't go so well.
We were running TF Oak (2x Axfords) versus Garnet Squadron (5x Flatheads). Crippled one early in the fight via combined fire from both cruisers, but then the remaining four focused fire on one of our cruisers, wore down its armor, and then started tearing apart internal systems.
Think we may have done an oopsie and rushed too hard. >_<

[glad aurora]

you don't rush monitors in axfords at all, yes

you stay at 9km and back up bow in

[wet root]

Yep, against MNs you're going to want to keep the range open - Flatheads have a nasty bite in close range with their plasma removing your armor while their 100mm chews you up, but they're also the slowest hull in the game and plasma has a strict range cap of 7,800m, while the 100mn caps out at 7,200mm (except grapeshot)

Axfords have the mobility to avoid the MNs' preferred range while still being within the 11.something km range of their 450mm batteries, though they'll usually prefer to stick at about 9km, since the Bullseye FCR is limited to 9,500m

[junior heron]

bullseye is 9k, parallax is 9.5

[wet root]

Wait shit really? I've apparently been wrong about that for years lmao

[junior heron]

maybe I'm wrong

[wet root]

Nope you're right

No wonder I always struggle to maintain my locks between 9k and 9.5k even with Flood support

[junior heron]

Oh good my very particular knowledge did turn out to be correct, I would hate to have to question everything I have ever committed to memory.

[supple sonnet]

Got it, so stick to longer ranges and chew people up with the 450mms.
Any advice on ammo selection?

[wet root]

In an actual match a lot of the interaction between the two will be the MNs trying to use cover to approach or maintain a position to force the Axfords to approach, while the Axfords attempt to flank or otherwise get clear sightlines at range (or disengage and fight another fleet)

[junior heron]

For the heavy cruisers' 450mm cannons: HE most of the time, maybe swap to AP if your firing at an Ocello.

[supple sonnet]

'Bout to go into our first actual multiplayer match. 5v5. Wish us luck!!

[junior heron]

Good luck!

[wet root]

If the MNs are engaging you, HE - if they're shooting at someone else, you might need AP to pen the armor depending on angle

Good luck!

[junior heron]

Important note for all video games: you can mute people's in-game chat from the scoreboard (Tab by default I think.)

[supple sonnet]

Ah right, nice. :)

Have fun!

Sierra (she/her) | Wyvern Silver Dragon ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) 'Bout to go into our first actual multiplayer match. 5v5. Wish us luck!!

We’re heading back to our apartment and can hop on soonish if you want some company

[supple sonnet]

Both cruisers are down. WSS Invictus took a bad volley of missiles, lost her drives, and then got ripped apart by two enemy heavy cruisers, which I think were Axfords. (We ended up on OSP.) But she fought to the last.
WSS Dependable lived up to her name, surviving the first volley of incoming munitions, retreating to repair, and then re-engaging. Sadly a second volley of what looked like at least a dozen missiles took her offline and let the two cruisers finish her off.
Still, we did what we could. Think we landed some solid hits with our guns and gave them something to think about.

Still need to see the after action report to find out what killed us; for now we're spectating the rest of the match. Will update y'all in a few.

[glad aurora]

did they have blue trails or not

[supple sonnet]

Can't quite recall, sorry; we were kinda overwhelmed.
I'm leaning towards no. I remember them suddenly appearing on radar maybe five seconds before impact and weaving on approach.

I'll check in the AAR.

ANDDDD WE WON BY 2 VICTORY POINTS LET'S GOOO-0

...mmm, okay, honestly I can't really tell what we got hit by. I think some form of ARAD/active radar cruise missiles, with a combination of shaped charges and kinetic penetrators.

missile of kill Wyverns...

Yeah.

We're gonna grab lunch since we just realized we haven't eaten in fifteen hours and then we'd be down to hang out. :)

Pack of muddled beasties | BargainBinCryptid ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) We’re heading back to our apartment and can hop on soonish if you want some company

sounds good!

[glad aurora]

yeah, arad/act cruise s2h

bshort your auroras and you should have zero problem with those

[supple sonnet]

Got it; that lets them fire way faster by bypassing cooldown time at the cost of module damage, right?

[glad aurora]

Yep

[supple sonnet]

Also: E70 jammer. It can jam enemy comms (so they can't get sensor updates from allies) and command guided missiles, right?

[wet root]

They'll burn out after eating a salvo or two, but really dangerous hybrid salvos like that are expensive to launch, they can't afford to send many at you

[glad aurora]

it's only relevant to jam cmd missiles, but as a result is mandatory on every frontlibe formation period

[wet root]

E70 is mostly for CMD missiles, comms jamming on ships is generally niche and the range on the E70 means it's almost never applicable

For ARAD/ACT you can either BSHORT your Auroras or if you have the time and mental stack they're very softkillable - right click -> EMCON then Shift-Z to drop chaff

For good practice also turn on your E70, though note you'll have to do that after clicking EMCON or it will turn it off

[supple sonnet]

EMCON?

[wet root]

Emissions Control, but in this case there's a button labeled EMCON that does it for you

[glad aurora]

Emissions control. Turn all your radars off.

[wet root]

(Turns off Radar, FCRs, and Jammers. Annoyingly for now it also turns off comms jammers, despite those not attracting ARAD missiles.)

[supple sonnet]

Got it, so it's essentially a button to quickly shut off everything if you've got ARADs inbound, right?

[wet root]

Sounds like they pathed the missiles nicely so you didn't have a lot of time to softkill though, which is a sign of a good missile player and a good reason to have Auroras :D

[wet root]

Exactly

[supple sonnet]

(Also @plain ice we've got lunch and are down to hang out. :) )

WTF-

[glad aurora]

the softkill tango is radars off, all stop, cmd jammer on, pop chaff and flares (shift-z)

[wet root]

Self-illuminate your chaff ideally, but that's less necessary

[supple sonnet]

sounds good! where do you wanna go?

Sierra (she/her) | Wyvern Silver Dragon ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) (Also @plain ice we've got lunch and are down to hang out. :) )

[wet root]

Most of these can be in any order, but CMD jammer must come after EMCON, and if you're self-illuminating that has to come after chaff (since otherwise there's nothing to illuminate :P)

[unreal oar]

Psst, Sierra (she/her) | Wyvern Silver Dragon (@wooden veldt), you have been pinged by @plain ice.

[supple sonnet]

Hmm. Honestly we could hop in a VC in this server, in case any other Nebulous folks wanna hop in and see us floundering about. :P

Pack of muddled beasties | BargainBinCryptid ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) sounds good! where do you wanna go? 📎

[wet root]

Unreasonably expensive placeholder fleets are fun. Maximum cost is achieved by packing an entire beach into 10 Moorline container ships

[supple sonnet]

works for us

[wet root]

I'm tragically stuck at workulous, but good luck!

[edgy dove]

https://tenor.com/view/matrix-dodge-neo-gif-13288848

A tug just walked up to the beamstone, dropped mines, and left

[glad aurora]

What's the arrow for

[edgy dove]

A completely alive perfectly healthy frontline

[oak shell]

Their entire frontline went flanking

[supple sonnet]

But on the upside, we lived and dealt like 18k damage! :D

we wanted to flank right but then everyone else flanked right as well

...ope we already have 7 hours in the game thanks to that four and a half hour Nebulous marathon. >_<

nice

help it's addicting

[wet root]

Always the hardest part of flanking, your teammates see a group pushing so they think "I'll come help!" and then there's nothing to flank against

[supple sonnet]

Decided to try working on our first custom fleet. Keep running into lobbies without a cap fleet and figured we'd step up and make one for those kinds of situations, at least when we're playing ANS. Currently taking inspiration from the starter fleet TF Willow but putting our own spin on it. :)

wipes brow
...so much to figure out...

[edgy dove]

NOOO NOT TF WILLOW

[supple sonnet]

...cardinal sin?

[edgy dove]

Willow is just not great, CL is too fragile, too few mounts, and not enough damage to stand on its own and torp sprinters are uh

not very good

[supple sonnet]

...huh.
...how would you recommend building Sprinters? /gen

We have an all sprinter fleet that used to eb good back when we played, but that was less of a standard cap fleet then most

[mint sinew]

Cap fleets are a bit of dark sorcery to optimise. At a basic level you want cheap corvettes to quickly take points and then have a few more capable assets to stop opposing caps and/or defeat the things stopping your caps

A standard capping sprinter looks something like: 2xMK61, VLS-1 and an optional defender. Internals of basic cic, rapid DC, Reinforced Mag and an Aux steering.

[wet root]

I'm not very up-to-date on cap tech, but AFAIK cheap 2xmk61 gun caps, minimal chaff+arming missile acaps, and S3H missile caps are all fine

[quiet quiver]

Willow’s ship roster was a meta cap fleet when it was introduced, but that was 2024

[wet root]

The most popular cap fleet nowadays is cheap Sprinters alongside very cheap beam Keystones ("Beamstones") positioned to defend the points, but be aware that everyone will be used to playing against that

Expect to get a lot of missiles and craft thrown your way if you run such a fleet

(Though that's the case for cap fleets in general, they know you have limited PD and that killing the cap fleet wins the game)

[supple sonnet]

Liking the cheap sprinter config Fluffy provided so far.
Honestly thinking of trying being slightly unorthodox and bringing some heavier assets to go with them, like a Vauxhall or two. Maybe that's just our fondness for expensive things showing, but we like having one or two more beefy ships that can take a few hits.

Mhm. Don't intend to bring it often, since it's probably not a fun time being a priority target as a new player, but after losing a few matches because of nobody capping, we'd like to at least try when the situation calls for it, y'know?

Lark ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) (Though that's the case for cap fleets in general, they know you have limited PD and that killing th…

[wet root]

Very familiar with that lol

[wet root]

You'll have difficulty fitting two Vauxen in with more than a few cappers, but I actually do quite like the Vaux+caps design - it's nightmarish for OSP to try to fight for caps when you've got a Vaux on defense

The downside compared to Beamstones is one Vaux can't really engage any OSP capital on its own, whereas a Beamstone can eviscerate a Marauder or Ocello with a good ambush

[mint sinew]

I've had good success with single Vaux + caps, it does eat most of your non-capper budget

I recommend giving the Vaux a jam sprinter as an escort to help it survive

[wet root]

Upside is a Vaux can often defend itself decently against light craft/missile strike (or heavy strike with good softkill) and doesn't die to rocket Shuttles

[wet root]

You can also make a solo Vaux with 2xBlanket/Chaff/Bullseye shoulder mounts and a backpack Interruptor but it does mean if you fail the softkill QTE you explode

[supple sonnet]

nod
Makes sense, yeah. We've been basically only playing heavy cruisers until now, so we were honestly hoping to try some fleets whose job isn't "sling shells back and forth with enemy capitals all game", as fun as that is. :P

Lark ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) The downside compared to Beamstones is one Vaux can't really engage any OSP capital on its own, wher…

[junior heron]

well, a beam battleship doesn't sling shells

[supple sonnet]

rolls eyes, smirking a little
You know damn well what I mean, Tommy.

[junior heron]

yes

[mint sinew]

I don't love making my cap fleet overmatch assets purely dependent on the softkill QTE due to attention requirements, but you definitely can do it

[junior heron]

this is slightly playing to the crowd because that is my absolute favorite fleet to play

[supple sonnet]

All praise the vauxhall

Might not finish workshopping this tonight (it's getting late and we've already logged more than six hours on the game today), but I think we're liking what we've come up with so far. Still gotta pick between one or two Vauxhalls (leaning towards two but one is less to manage), but we can do that later.

Oh btw vauxhalls also want to bow tank as much as they can because their shape means ricochets or nonpens

Also just, smaller profile

[junior heron]

and then breaking thruster 17 gets shot off

[supple sonnet]

Ye

who needs thrusters?

Each of our Sprinters only costs about 202 points, which is really nice. We've got five at the moment.

[wet root]

Yeah, I'm of the same opinion - fleets I've run such a build in are usually not cap fleets

[wet root]

Shrimply dodge

[junior heron]

just find 2 points to spare, the no ship limits mod, and then run 15 of them!

[supple sonnet]

The Vauxhall we're prototyping only costs... 900 right now, which makes us feel like we either we've put too little on it or we need more Sprinters...

...there's usually a limit to how many Sprinters you can bring?

TomZero (Tommy, he/him) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) just find 2 points to spare, the no ship limits mod, and then run 15 of them!

[junior heron]

10 ship limit total

[wet root]

By default there's a cap of 10 ships per fleet

[supple sonnet]

Ohhh, got it.

The abominable horde writhes with malice

[wet root]

That's pretty cheap, do you have four Ammo Elevators and some good drives?

[supple sonnet]

I think we have a coppy of that fleet still

Pack of muddled beasties | BargainBinCryptid ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) The abominable horde writhes with malice

[wet root]

Admittedly my perspective on Vauxhall costs is skewed by my EWAR addiction

[supple sonnet]

https://tenor.com/view/nebulous-fleet-command-fleet-command-missile-gif-26955788

[wet root]

I think "Duncan Idaho" is still the ship name I have encountered most

[supple sonnet]

Only 3 elevators, but we can fit a fourth. Drives are the FM530 "Whiplash", biggest and most expensive we could fit.

Lark ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) That's pretty cheap, do you have four Ammo Elevators and some good drives?

...still need to work on the missiles tomorrow and add ammo for a bunch of things though, so it'll probably go up a bit by the time we're done.

It's a good name

Lark ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) I think "Duncan Idaho" is still the ship name I have encountered most

[wet root]

Whiplashes are weird because the small one actually has better drive stats, though if it's your only drive you probably want the big one for durability. I really recommend trying to double-drive Vauxhalls if you can afford the points and power, small Whiplash + big Raider does work

(Small Whip + big Dragon is also solid)

[supple sonnet]

We've currently got about 1k points in five Sprinters, so each Vauxhall can be about 1k in-
...
you can add multiple drives.
...well then.

IDEAS.

Mhm

[wet root]

Yep! I don't recommend the quad-Prowler Solomon.

[supple sonnet]

...and now our power is busted. :P

[mint sinew]

Micro reactors will save you

[wet root]

Anything cruiser and above tends to want multiple drives, though they can't always afford the power budget, since they take the same space as reactors

[supple sonnet]

...should we take off the Spyglass? :P

https://tenor.com/view/electroboom-gif-15202334593336189314

[mint sinew]

I'd recommend parallax generally for Vauxhalls

[wet root]

For a solo Vaux I personally prefer the Parallax, being able to burnthrough small ships' jamming and having a backup lock is quite nice

Plus it gives a good enough track to fire on with RPF

[supple sonnet]

Right, got it. Makes sense.

Plus your main guns can only reach out to a max of 8km and generally you don’t want to be closer than 6

...still eating up 6 MW; need to figure out how to budget this...

[wet root]

(For trivaux I'll usually bring a mix)

[supple sonnet]

...okay, shift that around and- there, two Micro Reactors. 95%. Hell yeah. :)

[wet root]

If you want advice you can drag the fleet file into this channel, there's a bot that will provide a fleet overview

[supple sonnet]

Being a bit over your power budget isn’t the end of the world it just means you’ll have to be careful how many systems you switch on at once

Right, one second while I look it over.
Just as long as you promise not to judge our first ever attempt at making our own fleet from scratch. :P

Lark ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) If you want advice you can drag the fleet file into this channel, there's a bot that will provide a …

Can’t be worse than ours

Everyone’s been where you are, don’t worry

[wet root]

I guarantee we've all built worse

[wet root]

To elaborate on this, it's pretty common to be at like 105% power, and when your PDTs fire your Ammo Elevators lose power - since your PDTs will only be firing for brief periods of time, it doesn't significantly impact your firerate

Situationally you can go a lot further over power, like if you have jammers you only turn on temporarily, or some Beamstones which can only run either the beam or the radar, not both at once

[supple sonnet]

Alright, just gotta find the fleet file now...

Found it.

right click in steam and go here

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Wolfpack Company' is composed of 6 ships that cost 2022 points:

Demetrius E. Burkley : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun Sensor Missile PD]
             Artemis : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
     The Harsh Unity : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
            Book Out : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
            One Half : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
     The Leaky Poker : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-210 Storm : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/[PSV(EO)] - HE SHAPED [10pts]

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Wolfpack Company' is composed of 6 ships that cost 2022 points:

Demetrius E. Burkley : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun Sensor Missile PD]
             Artemis : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
     The Harsh Unity : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
            Book Out : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
            One Half : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
     The Leaky Poker : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-210 Storm : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/[PSV(EO)] - HE SHAPED [10pts]

[supple sonnet]

RCIC's do priovide a lot of beef to smaller ships

(Only one Vauxhall for now; only going to duplicate it later once we've settled on a better basic design so we don't have to go back and change everything later.)

Becosue of how the Reinforced tag works it is a lot more then it looks like and is also a lot more noticable on small ships

Requires 0HP to destroy, yeah.

[wet root]

Very solid for the Vaux! I would probably recommend trying to fill out the internal compartments a bit more, and personally I'm a big fan of putting the Bullseye on one of the shoulder mounts so you can get another main gun on - it's a lot of bonus firepower, though it does cost some point defense capability

[supple sonnet]

To be hit at 0hp yeah, wich meens thay can't be one shot

[wet root]

No notes at all on the modules, those check all the boxes

[supple sonnet]

Hmmmm... with how expensive this Vaux is getting, we might end up beefing it up a bunch and then using the budget saved by not having two on more Sprinters/more expensive Sprinters.

[wet root]

Oh, you do want a lot more 250mm ammo in the Vaux, and especially some 250mm RPF - I usually run about 1k each RPF and HE and 500 AP, though that's relatively heavy on the investment

[supple sonnet]

Like the jamming escort someone mentioned earlier.

Got it. RPF is mainly for smaller nimble ships, right? (Since from the description it doesn't seem like the Mk64 cannons can be used as dual purpose.)

Lark ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) Oh, you do want a lot more 250mm ammo in the Vaux, and especially some 250mm RPF - I usually run a…

[wet root]

One thing to note if you want to save some points is that Small DC Lockers give the same amount of teams and restores as Reinforced ones, they're the most point-efficient DC option - but, of course, they will explode if shot

Fair warning that I am extremely greedy when it comes to DC so I strongly recommend getting second opinions on anything I say regarding it :P

[wet root]

Mk64s are dual-purpose! But yeah, 250RPF shreds Shuttles and Tugs, and also significantly threatens craft. One Vaux worth of RPF won't stop much of a missile strike on its own, but it can soften them up and if you're already firing on a rocket Shuttle when it starts launching you can thin out the strike

In particular outside like... 5kmish? Shuttles can dodge 250mm HE, but RPF will prox fuse on them even at 8km

[supple sonnet]

Got it!
...question: how many Sprinters would you suggest? Currently we're running five, but we're considering dropping that to four to make room for two beefed-up Vauxhalls.

[wet root]

That's really a question for people who play more caps than I (@mint sinew pokepoke), but it's also very much a case of "season to taste"

[supple sonnet]

Noted. :)
...sorry if we're asking too many questions. It's just... we wanna make sure we aren't deadweight on whatever team we end up on. There's a bit of pressure, I feel, to build well to make up for our lack of experience.

(Self-applied pressure, to be clear.)

(I feel like I need to build well so I don't hold my team back.)

[wet root]

You're fine! I think most everyone in the channel is happy to answer questions when we're around

And there's a lot of stuff in this game to ask questions about lol

[supple sonnet]

Great. :)
yawnnn
Gonna put some more work into this tomorrow.
For now, behold, best name ever.

Excellent

[mint sinew]

Most commonly played maps have 5 capture points with 1-2 per side being much closer to your spawn ("naturals"). That means you'll want no less than 4 cappers so you can start the game with one for each point that isn't the enemy natural.

I personally like to have at least one spare above that because cappers die horribly regularly

So that's 4-6 gun sprinters in a fleet like this, probably 5 as a target

[glad aurora]

there are more or less three acceptable AN capfleets; one of them is 3-4 beamstones as its overmatch asset, the other is an escort carrier, and the last is two very cheap Vauxhalls

since you're not a softkill god yet and don't know how to play carriers, beamstones

3x:
Mk600 Keystone w/Raider drive, 2x FPA, E90 Blanket jammer, Bullseye FCR, VLS-1-23 w/chaff, arming missile (1pt "technically armed" S1 to count for capture points if everything else on the ship is out, DO NOT FIRE IT), fill remaining slots with Defenders

6x:
Sprinter, 2xMk61, Defender wing mount, VLS-1-23 wing mount with six chaff, arming missile, 8 2pt max maneuverability ACT AMMs, reinforced magazine (your first magazine is free and thus should be reinforced for damage resistance on everything you don't need huge ammo capacity on) with 6000 rounds of 20mm, 200 rpf, 200 he

add chaff and 20mm ammo to keystones until you hit 3000pts exactly

rapid DC/bcic on sprinters, small DC/rcic on keystones

you don't need flares on small ships because your drive plume is nonexistent to begin with (i.e., just click all stop and you're set), it's mandatory on vauxhalls and up because their signature has a nonzero fade time

[noble zodiac]

the vauxhall

as long as you can dodge you are literally immortal

the second you become unable to dodge you Instantly Die

[edgy dove]

2CL caps good :)

Although it's arguably not very good as a cap fleet considering your only overmatch assets can only be in 1 place at a time (splitting up vuaxhalls is usually a bad idea)

[supple sonnet]

Just had a crazy match where one of our two Axfords just would not die.
It got disabled pretty late, but then it just kept tanking shells and the Reinforced CIC just would not get permanently destroyed. It got atmosphere breached, on fire, down to 0% then 1% then back to 0 and it just would not fail.

This Axford closed the distance to try to finish the job - and then got vaporized by a friendly reactor detonation right next to them.
A second one shelled us for minutes on end and still it would not die.
Literally survived the battle with still-functional drives and CIC, and was slowly limping its way towards the retreat line.

[mint sinew]

Axfords will do that. I've won many games by parking the burnt out husk of my Axford on a capture point while OSP can't kill me fast enough to take the point from me

[wet root]

Axfords are great for that, it's always painful to be on the other side knowing you can either spend 10 minutes firing at a 95%-dead Axford or shoot at something else and risk it zombieing back up and sitting on a point

[supple sonnet]

We learned that lesson during one game where we had a single ocello left that could do nothing but move. Initially we wanted to abandon ship but our team convinced us to just mosey on and start capping points

[edgy dove]

That's another thing, there is literally no reason to ever evac a ship. Even a ship with just an aux steer and engine can either cap an enemy point or force an enemy ship to stay on one of yours

And if you lost and want to give up, the surrender button evacs all of your ships with 1 click, or more commonly just alt+f4 if you think your allies might be able to use whatever you have left to win but don't want to play anymore (still try not to do this, people don't really like being handed ships)

[junior heron]

if the ship is engines and comms killed in an unarmed minefield, evacing it will stop the mines from triggering on it

mines are the one situation where evacuating is pretty good

[edgy dove]

I guess? But I don't like mines and don't think I've ever seen that be relevant in a game

[junior heron]

I figure I'd mention it

I've played a couple of mine shuttle games on PTB

[wary flame]

in-extremis mine tactics involve a lot of insane space-opera stunts

I have triggered my own mines so I could chaff them onto a target past my useless little shuttle at least once

[wet root]

An AI-only tournament could be interesting, players design fleets then the AI battles it out

Like the bot TI in Dota

[oak shell]

Do mines trigger on chaff?

[junior heron]

Mechabellulous where you get 500 (number arbitrary) points to build with each round, and have to keep building on top of whatever you have

trigger no, but they will seek it

I had a game where I softkilled 3-4 minefields by slowly advancing and pre-chaffing.

[glad aurora]

AI doesn't softkill and iirc still can't use carriers, so CLN sweep

[oak shell]

So, mine radars can discriminate chaff from ships, but only before they become active?
I see why that's done for game balance reasons, but it is strange

[wet root]

It also doesn't ToT though, so you can build fleets that survive that with hardkill

[junior heron]

The way to think of mines is 2 stage: a "magnetic" trigger (activates when ships are in range), then a regular ACT seeker

[wet root]

Note that the trigger is the only one that discriminates based on team as well. Once triggered they just go for the biggest signature in range, no matter who it is

[oak shell]

Somehow I had in my head that the trigger was radar activated

[junior heron]

I think they'll also go for active decoys, so my model might be a little wrong too

[oak shell]

So, never mind

[mint sinew]

No your model is right, ADs won't trigger mines but they will home on them once active

[junior heron]

oh cool, I was right and it was the pubs that were wrong.

[mint sinew]

Launching an AD ahead of you into the minefield is still a good idea as it will draw all the mines you trigger by flying through

There is a lot of interesting emergent tech around mines

[junior heron]

I actually did enjoy the couple of minespam games I was in but can absolutely agree with the change to make them single use VLS.

I think if it became more common I would find it a lot more grating, but it was an interesting change of pace for 2 games.

[wet root]

I still hope the mineVLS gets a bit more capacity

[oak shell]

I'm sure someone has suggested putting mine bodies in the missile editor

[edgy dove]

There was a balance-agora thread suggesting ACT/[ARAD] mines but that got (rightfully) clowned on

[supple sonnet]

'Bout to take out our ANS capfleet for the first time.

[mint sinew]

Good luck!

[glad aurora]

one capper for each of the points not the enemy natural, three for A point if it's Arroyo, Salar/Ralas, Nyx's Eye, or Pillars, position your beamstones near (behind cover) and with their heading pre-pointed at the three points nearest to and including your natural
all other sprinters stay in reserve

[supple sonnet]

Update: didn't go too well. Whole team went downwards and left our only non-Sprinter assets versus multiple Ocellos.
Got trashed. :P

[mint sinew]

Welcome to the cap life!

Learning when to cut and cede entire sections of the map is a bit of an art

[wet root]

Ah, yeah, Ocellos are already natural predators of triVaux, single/double Vaux will need to run the moment they see one

[wet root]

One thing I wanted to mention is that ammo costs are rounded up, per ammo type, and per ship - so having 150 120mmAP and 150 120mmHE costs the same as 200 of each. And Flak costs 1pt/75 IIRC, so 225 costs the same as 200. You can hold ALT while adding ammo to have it add to the next threshold.

(Not a huge deal, just one of those things that gets you a little extra ammo or a few more points)

[glad aurora]

oh, wait, she's running double vaux caps? That's... going to be rough

[wet root]

Eh, Vaux Caps are fine

[mint sinew]

It's more like a half cap which is perfectly fine

[supple sonnet]

Update: in a complete reversal of last match, this time we engaged and destroyed multiple Ocellos with our Vauxhalls. Took advantage of them being angled towards our teammates, popped out from behind rocks, unloaded AP into their flanks. :)

[junior heron]

A well-executed flanking manuever always feels so good to pull off.

[supple sonnet]

Also we stealthed our Sprinters around the map and managed to cheekily steal a few cap points.
Also two nearly dead Ocellos tried to take A but we parked a singular Sprinter on it and stopped 'em.

...playing double Vaux and Sprinters is definitely a different feel compared to double Axfords/Ocellos.
It's a lot more to manage but also so satisfying when we pull off sneaky flanks.

[wet root]

Vauxen really rely on their mobility to choose their engagements, they're incredibly powerful but also my goodness do they fall over quick when out of position

[wet root]

It's an interesting aspect of Nebneb that small ships (Sprinters and Shuttles in particular) are highly resistant to 450mm due to overpen, there's actually very little even healthy Ocellos can do to a Sprinter sitting on a point with its roof aimed towards them

[supple sonnet]

Mhm!!
Kind of like battlecruisers were envisioned to be during the Interwar period. Hunt down what you can fight, outrun what you can't.

Lark ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) Vauxen really rely on their mobility to choose their engagements, they're incredibly powerful but …

[edgy dove]

https://youtu.be/y1MJiIKAgmw?si=JaUyHRG-rdVDc1Av

For all of you who participated in this arroyo match here's the bricks we were throwing from spec view

[restive monolith]

oh oopsie

[oak shell]

Ah dang, I don't have that one yet

[restive monolith]

i should play more often

[oak shell]

Boat night is tomorrow!

[restive monolith]

oh yeah

i did say i'd play didn't i...

i may be too busy tbh

[junior heron]

I can ping early again, start time is kind of up in the air.

[supple sonnet]

We'll do our best to be there!!
Can't promise we won't be utterly awful, but we'll give it our all. :P

Perijove, (He)xagon Understander ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) Boat night is tomorrow!

[supple sonnet]

Want to ask if anyone wants to play some neb

We'd be down. :)

sweet ok

I haven’t played in a while, should I just make a room?

Could work. That or we look for a public lobby that has room.

Mhm

Want to vc or no? We’re fine either way

I'm... down.

[supple sonnet]

Is this normal?

[glad aurora]

lifepods don't really do object avoidance because they're decorative objects

[supple sonnet]

I see

Just found it weird it was ramming my ship

[oak shell]

This server is not for Battletech lol

[supple sonnet]

Hey, we were in this match!! :D

CheeseSlayer ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) https://youtu.be/y1MJiIKAgmw?si=JaUyHRG-rdVDc1Av 📎

We're famous!!

[wooden veldt]

\ @plain ice You were in this match too! :)

[plain ice]

\ lol we got the honour of the thumbnail

[supple sonnet]

You did!!

...honestly we're a little sad our performance was so lackluster we didn't even warrant being mentioned in the video, but ah well. 😔

Oh wait, nevermind, we got mentioned when the mines went after us. :P

[oak shell]

The video maker was complimentary towards your Axford build

[junior heron]

@restive monolith think you'll be around for an early boat night today? I know you haven't been able to make the previous days, was thinking about pinging early today (in about 40 minutes)

[restive monolith]

Sowwwyyy I think I could play tomorrow

[junior heron]

hmm

I was planning to poke the Zero-K role tomorrow

[supple sonnet]

I can play boat night

Same!

[junior heron]

normal ping time has <t:1771106400:t> , but I can ping early

I'll definitely be around later for Fluffy and Lark as they're usually the later-comers

[wicked mirage]

I got a battlegroup game in 30 mins, if you want we could smash out a game beforehand real quick maybe? We'd have to find a lobby right now though xD

[junior heron]

sure

[supple sonnet]

I can do that

If that’s cool with yall

[junior heron]

heck, <@&942093958551588904> it's boat afternoon today, on account of pinging early

[supple sonnet]

On our way!

[glad aurora]

I'll be there in a sec

ah, you've already got four

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Caps + 250mm 20251013' is composed of 9 ships that cost 3000 points:

    Dairy Splay : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Gun PD Sensor]
      Tinny Bye : 'Draugr' class Clipper [PD Gun Sensor]
  Warding Bolts : 'Draugr' class Clipper [PD Gun Sensor]
    Frost Eager : 'Draugr' class Clipper [PD Sensor Gun]
     Brisk Cola : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
 Strafe Shooter : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
 The Foamy Bomb : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
The Sooty Hyena : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
   Squirmy Worm : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
                 SGM-111 Demister : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]

[wet root]

Oh, @junior heron could you send me the battle report?

[junior heron]

forgot to download it sorry D:

[wet root]

@mint sinew maybe?

(I want to know how my Sarissas did)

[mint sinew]

No luck sorry

Anecdotally I saw it nail one Cuda

[wet root]

Tragedy and woe

Yeah they were definitely putting in work

[mint sinew]

Yeah, backpack craft operating under the Pyre's umbrella were really nice

There were two wings of Cudas that got smote by SDMs as they locked in to dogfight me

[wet root]

I actually have three Sarissas in that fleet, the Tale is 2x Sarissa 2x Mk62

It's like my only fleet I have that can actually interact with craft on Main :P

[junior heron]

you have TF Ash, it came with your Nebulous: Fleet Command

[wet root]

...now I wonder if it actually did, or if it was added after I bought the game

I do have my own Trivaux which I suppose interacts with craft

[junior heron]

I will forever find it funny how much playing a beam bb feels like it warps my gamesense

1. aren't in ranges to orbit dodge
   1b) heck aren't usually going to get more out of bowtanking than the extra beam will do
2. aren't usually pulling attention like a frontline fleet would
3. can interact with craft

[wet root]

Beam BBs also just have a much spikier tempo than 450mm fleets, IMO

Lots of maneuvering followed by a few minutes of beaming followed by more maneuvering

[junior heron]

maybe it's why I am fine with canyon

I understand the serenity of maneuvering the terrain

[wet root]

Meanwhile, I'm fine with Canyon because my natural habitat is the void at least 5km away from the nearest rock, and there's a lot of that on Canyon

[supple sonnet]

Sudden random thought:
Part of us suddenly wishes Nebulous had boarding pods or something similar. We know it wouldn't really be balanced and whatnot, but we've always liked ship to ship boarding actions in sci-fi, from a purely "that'd be cool" standpoint.
(Obviously not suggesting they add it or anything, not without putting more thought into it.)

[mint sinew]

Was actually on the original roadmap

[wet root]

Funny story!

[supple sonnet]

Oh!

[mint sinew]

But didn't make the cut as there wasn't a fun way to make them work, be good and be fun

[wet root]

(Unfortunately Lys couldn't find a way to make it fun and interesting)

[supple sonnet]

Mhm, yeah.
Maybe this is our hyperfixation on the Lancer mission we're writing involving ship to ship boarding actions leaking out.

[mint sinew]

They are a cool concept, and boarding as a utility tool will be coming into the campaign

[edgy dove]

@cynthetic because idk what your discord username is but
gameplay

[supple sonnet]

...help. I think we've been playing so much Nebulous we dreamed about it last night... :P

[wet root]

Did you dream up a good fleet?

[junior heron]

neb dreams are funny because they are utterly ridiculous to remember after waking up

a very nonzero number of my dreams are just reaching into the game and spinning my battleship around with my hands.

[supple sonnet]

...I dunno.
I barely remember what happened. :P

Lark ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) Did you dream up a good fleet?

[wet root]

Tom I think that means your subconscious is telling you to put more Dragonflies on the Autumn

[junior heron]

Or last night's where it made complete sense for me to be playing Ocellos on ANS, of course. But also they still had OSP equipment so I was using R2 containers against lineships.

[wet root]

Alas, you will not be able to recreate the tech

[wet root]

Aughhh container Ocellos

[junior heron]

silly dream

[supple sonnet]

Giant tom’s hands vs 450mm HE!

TomZero (Tommy, he/him) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) a very nonzero number of my dreams are just reaching into the game and spinning my battleship around…

[wet root]

Honestly I see the logic there. Ocellos are able to use both factions' equipment, and they're an ANS hull, so...

[junior heron]

RL-36 Ocello would have been the real dream tech against OSP

[supple sonnet]

...ALSO, yesterday we ran into our first encounter with someone using the E15 signature-hiding module...

[junior heron]

EXACTLY!

It made perfect sense

[junior heron]

I should make these with masquerades for if we ever end up on a server with unlocked factions...

[supple sonnet]

"Oh huh, a Vauxhall just popped up from behind that rock? Why is it pushing? Eh, throw some HE at it and it'll regret its life decisions."
distracted by several other ships taking potshots at us
"Beam Vauxen?? Didn't even know that was possible."
only caught a glimpse of it on visual and didn't quite process it
"Alright, let's see how that-"
"THE FUCK DO YOU MEAN IT'S A SOLOMON??"

Moon (she/her) | Wyvern Pearlescent Dragon ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) ...ALSO, yesterday we ran into our first encounter with someone using the E15 signature-hiding modul…

[wet root]

Lmao

Big Vaux

[junior heron]

Boxhaul

[wet root]

Fuck that's so much better

[supple sonnet]

Surprisingly we chucked AP at it and somehow our two Ocellos killed it?? I think someone else had been hammering it in the flank and it was already venting atmo.
We also killed two Axfords that match too. Dunno what the hell we did, but our 450 AP did work that match.

[wet root]

Ocellos good! They're the best void duelists in the game

In the case of the solly it was probably the flanker and/or poorly-built internals that finished it off, it takes a lot of AP through the nose to kill one

[supple sonnet]

That, and the fact it was kinda drifting. We started hammering into its flank too once it drifted below us.

[glad aurora]

considering they put an e15 on a solomon, it was the internals

[supple sonnet]

Think the flanker wrecked its drives.

[wet root]

A driveless BeamBB is a tragic thing

Unless you can rotate it by hand

[supple sonnet]

Also we are witnessing... something in this Neb lobby.
We've somehow ended up doing ANS vs ANS, and someone brought a 3000 point fleet that consisted of a singular Vauxhall with an absurd amount of missiles.

[glad aurora]

yeah, that's an auto-win in AvA

alliance fleets don't bring the PD to beat it and don't have EO jammers, so they win

[supple sonnet]

...yeah so anyways they left-

[wet root]

Woe unto the other team, for their capitals shall soon evaporate to EO HEKP

Presumably an Auroramaxxing gunblob could survive

[supple sonnet]

and now we have nine Railstones

we are witnessing Things and we are honestly just here to see what insanity this match brings

[wet root]

...rails are very good against ANS but that might still be excessive

[supple sonnet]

Okay yep, we now understand why ANS vs ANS isn't great.
...
Five. Hundred. EO. Hybrids.

[glad aurora]

Yep!

AvA is entirely based around bringing auroras and 450. You do nothing but sit in orbit and auroras and 450 people.

If someone fails to bring auroras, they die.

[supple sonnet]

...having not brought Auroras: yep.

One of our Axfords got hit with so many hybrids so fast it blew through every single DC locker, both reactors, and the CIC in a single volley and completely knocked it out in a single volley. :P

Full HP to fully dead and evacuating in ten seconds.

[glad aurora]

Yeeeeep.

You can do that to Ocellos on OSP too, even through auroras, just less reliably.

[wet root]

And Ocellos actually have access to the softkill to defend against it if they want

[wet root]

Anyone know the most space-efficient planar formation for 8 ships?

Probably a heptagon with a single ship in the center, since that's close to a honeycomb

[glad aurora]

pretty much, assuming symmetry

[wet root]

Symmetry doesn't actually matter here, but I think it's still most efficient? Apparently the Neb Server Bot has a formations command, so we'll see what that gives me

[mint sinew]

Mathematically confirmed to be a heptagon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_packing_in_a_circle

[oak shell]

Octobrick fleet??

[wet root]

Ooh good link, I should have realized that's the name for the problem given I've seen square packing in a square before

[wet root]

Trying a new take on my old Galeblobs, this time using Sprompters for illumination + bringing backup guns

[supple sonnet]

THE PROPHECY IS TRUE-

[wet root]

Another Neb twin to go with the Fluffies!

[wary flame]

are there other ranks of Fluffy

at the very least we're missing a Sir Fluffy

[wet root]

Fluffy, Esq.

I know there's a neb player called Larc, I don't think I've been on the same team as them though

[glad aurora]

Larcrivereagle, yep

[supple sonnet]

Just called out several tracks as possible 250 Liners.
Belatedly remembered several minutes later that we're on OSP. 😅

[restive monolith]

I play like one match of nebulous every week really, I should play more

[wet root]

Move fast, relatively long for their width, quite good linear thrust, field 250mm guns, seems like a Lineship to me

[restive monolith]

And with yall sometime

[wet root]

I mostly only play Neb on boat nights nowadays

Might play more after the PTB changes make it to main though

[mint sinew]

Cruiser, Line sounds about right

Don't forget the oversized braking thruster

[supple sonnet]

We try to squeeze in a few matches every day, just to keep our skills sharp and keep improving. Neb is a game that rapidly depletes our spoons and mental energy, so we try to play a bit often instead of trying to play for 6 hours once a week and getting incredibly burned out.

Lark ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) I mostly only play Neb on boat nights nowadays

[restive monolith]

It takes a lot of spoons so I play 1 or 2 games every few daus

Days

That and I dont have time for it

[supple sonnet]

Anyways we lost that match because we had three Ocellos whose player had a fire alarm go off and surrendered instead of just disconnecting, so we were down 3k points from the start and had no capfleet to boot.
Still gave them hell. We got ambushed by not one, not two, but four Beamstones at once and killed them because we were mostly bow on and they apparently didn't BSHRT their beams. >:)

[wet root]

Oof, rip the Ocellos

[supple sonnet]

Also we finally saw an enemy carrier and helped spot for a mass driver who absolutely obliterated them. :D

[wet root]

And yeah, same boat where I only have the energy to play a certain amount of Neb, and I just tend to prefer having at least a few people in voice for multiplayer team games in general

[supple sonnet]

Mhm. Totally fair.

[wet root]

Carriers are like cockroaches, they hide in the cracks of the map but you know they're there

[supple sonnet]

Need to try one one day. We love skulking in a corner being a nightmare for the enemy team.

(Still need to figure out what to replace the craft with on the Liner in the OSP capfleet someone provided. Not sure we have the experience yet to command nine ships and craft at the same time. :P)

[wet root]

A classic thing for liner backpacks is utility containers

Having a couple lineship decoys, a couple killjoys, and maybe a big explosive box or two for bonking PDless ships can go a long way for a very small investment

You can also do an actual missile backpack, 8 torpedoes or 16 S2s hits quite hard

But it's pricey

If you want to deal with micro, Revolver Lineships are a thing, where you have guns on both sides and roll over to bring new ones to bear while the first are reloading

[supple sonnet]

Yeah. Going to see what we can fit once we tear out the hangars.
...need to give the other 8 ships names, too. :P

We saw, yeah! One of the starter fleets mentions that.
Just seems a bit micro-heavy for a fleet with 9 ships. :P

Lark ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) If you want to deal with micro, Revolver Lineships are a thing, where you have guns on both sides an…

[wet root]

I think that ship was 250mm IIRC, so it's less valuable, but backpack T30s aren't uncommon on 450mm liners to let them deal with small stuff and flankers

[supple sonnet]

It was 250, yeah.

[wet root]

Since I haven't been playing much since carriers none of my new fleets have earned themselves names

The one with Axford/Railstone/SpotterBomberFrig is getting pretty close though

You can always stick stuff like TALS and Warbler on the backpack as well

[mint sinew]

If you are ripping the craft off the cap fleet 250mm liner I suggest filling the back with containers. A few decoys, a few killjoys (defensive containers with jammers) and then some ACT[CMD] containers to slap people who cheap out on defenders

A TALS is a good shout too

You essentially trade the scouting of the craft for better softkill

[oak shell]

I favor t30 backpacks

[mint sinew]

I don't find 250mm LNs need the extra antilight but they can do work

[oak shell]

Oh, right

[wet root]

They're less necessary for 250mm LNs IMO, though they're still nice for extending the range you can hit a dodging Sprinter

The extra 300m/s on Grape isn't trivial

[mint sinew]

Nor is the extra projectile size

[wet root]

I suspect they'll be even nicer once PTB changes are merged and they kill craft

Though I guess 250mm is getting bombs too which overlaps with both roles

[mint sinew]

Pseudo revolvers 250->T30 probably have a lot of anti-light/craft teeth if the control proves not to be too fiddly

[junior heron]

dang, looks like the thread lapsed just as I was finishing a match

[mint sinew]

Personal attack

[junior heron]

<@&942093958551588904> alright it's close enough, boat night!

[wet root]

I'll be on in 10ish

[junior heron]

dang

it wasn't close enough

[supple sonnet]

Be there STAT!

[glad aurora]

the nefarious & evil vauxhalls claimed another victim

[junior heron]

hey I charged valiantly headfirst into you after I recognized we were losing on points

[glad aurora]

true!

[lime jungle]

CM-404 Spicy Active Decoy is a size 4 missile that costs 3 points.

[mint sinew]

@wooden veldt

[lime jungle]

CM-421 Box, Adequate is a size 4 missile that costs 4 points.

[wet root]

"My Ocello is feeling weirdly sluggish"

[supple sonnet]

It's fine except for all the drives...

[wet root]

Thrusters are overrated, I definitely don't rely entirely on them + jamming to win gun duels...

[edgy dove]

Bullseye+flood is coming

[junior heron]

I feel like I did help that game, though I can never tell with rail and MD numbers.

[wet root]

That's why I have a Raider lol

[mint sinew]

It seemed like you did, at minimum you really constrained their movements

[wet root]

Jamming is great but definitely not always viable

[wet root]

I wasn't paying that much attention, given I was having my own adventures on the opposite side of the map from everyone else, but the fact their artillery BB and Axford had been contained rather than pushing through against Sierra's Ocellos suggest they were doing work

[supple sonnet]

Oh jeez, our new OSP capfleet has ten ships... (6 shuttles, 3 tugs, and a lineship)
That's gonna be a lot to manage. :P

[mint sinew]

The best capfleet micro advice I've been given: rather than trying to track everything at once and failing, regularly rotate through all your ships and see what they need in the moment

[supple sonnet]

also we just looked at how many containers we can stick on a Moorline and we're cackling-

pretty sure we don't need 200 containers but the fact we could feasibly mount that many is diabolical-

[mint sinew]

You say that you don't need 200, but...

[supple sonnet]

...is 144 not sufficient? :P

[mint sinew]

Only practical experience will tell

[supple sonnet]

This is true!

...not gonna play a Moorline container boat yet; need to go back and do the cruise missile tutorial first.

...and we're gonna focus on learning our OSP capfleet first.

...and maybe trying Beamstones.
...gosh there's so much to try...

[supple sonnet]

One of the funniest things I ever saw was er, S2 Moorline, using mods.

We use them as AMS stress tests.

They easily get like 1k cells. It's so stupid.

[supple sonnet]

"Oh yeah, it's capfleet time!"
friendly player brings ten rocket shuttles
"...guess we're bringing Ocellos again. :P"

[mint sinew]

10 ruttles does not a cap fleet make, always worth an ask if they are planning on caps or going hunting

[supple sonnet]

...and then they switched to Ocellos so actually we're still on for capfleet gaming!

...awww, server kicked us out halfway through. :(

[wicked mirage]

oof

Also hello everyone!

[junior heron]

howdy

[edgy dove]

I’m really not a fan of 10 ruttles as a cap fleet tbh

Probably worth bringing something that is another fleet but has some gun shuttles on the side, my favorite for this is 2x250LN + gun cappers

[glad aurora]

most 10 ruttle players don't even use them as caps, they use them to grief CV players

which is fair tbh

don't trust your team to know how to softkill? kill the missiles first

[supple sonnet]

...just had an absolutely insane match with our OSP capfleet and I think we're gonna be riding that high for literal days. :P

• our team has multiple Rear Admirals while we're still an Ensign; enemy team has a Vice and Rear Admiral and two mid-rank players
• we deploy and do our best to quickly take points; get us ahead 3 points to 2 pretty early on
• desperately trying to manage sweeping with EWAR, sneaking our shuttles around, and using our Liner to poke at a few people
• one of our team: "btw wyvern you're doing stellar keep it up"
• Cap5 saves a friendly carrier with no PD that had to push a point from an enemy missile with a lone PD turret
• "cap5 my hero"
• go for a last-minute rush with the liner to grab a 3rd point and get ahead points-wise
• "wyvern you got this"
• knock out their backline and start taking the point with help from friendlies
• win 1000-984
  Almost had a heart attack trying to manage everything, but whew that was awesome. :D

[glad aurora]

hell yeah, that's the best neb moments

[wicked mirage]

HELL YEAH!!!!

[edgy dove]

I think I remember seeing this match, what was the map and if you can recall who were the high rankers?

[supple sonnet]

-# Hmm, I think we might have exported the battle report. We're currently on mobile but we can check in a moment.

-# Just checked: our team had Larcrivereagle, us, MiniTitan365, and Cleetus McGreedy vs Shrike, Sly Procyon, Surazal, and Trojan_Shad0w.

-# Can't quite recall the map, sadly, though we have a screenshot from partway through that might show it, one second...

-# Nevermind. But yeah.

[edgy dove]

I'm misremembering anyway, the match I was thinking of is Styx with different people, Surazal and Trojan ran CVLN that one

[supple sonnet]

-# Ah, got it. No worries!

[quiet quiver]

cw: Some crude/nsfw language, as being a Dracula Flow edit

[wicked mirage]

@junior heron Banana Boat?

<@&942093958551588904>

https://tenor.com/view/hi-portal2-game-space-float-gif-16181612

[wet root]

I'm around if we get a squad going

[eternal bramble]

Curse my laptop, would if I could!

[supple sonnet]

We're around as well. :)

[wicked mirage]

I'll be in VC once I dry my hair off, just got out the shower lol

[supple sonnet]

Might join. Bit busy unfortunately

-# meant to be small text

-# :D

[wicked mirage]

@wet root

[wicked mirage]

ding

[wicked mirage]

dong

[plain ice]

\ @wooden veldt

[wicked mirage]

Thanks lol

[supple sonnet]

If you react with ❗ to a message it pings the actual account

[unreal oar]

Psst, Pack of muddled beasties | BargainBinCryptid (@plain ice), you have been pinged by @wicked mirage.

[wet root]

Oh that's good to know

[wicked mirage]

Neat xD

[supple sonnet]

Yep!

Or right click/press and hold to bring up the apps section

Ughhhhh we're being dragged away AGAIN, go without us.

Cryptid: Beaste of Whimsy ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) \ @wooden veldt

[edgy dove]

https://tenor.com/view/sisyphus-rock-mp4-transparent-color-gif-11114772717737196968

[quiet quiver]

TBF, 250 LNs can be a real DPS hose

[edgy dove]

More than 5 CCs and a CVL?

[wicked mirage]

Gained a whole percent from that game lol

[edgy dove]

https://tenor.com/view/swearing-gif-25588981

That match was genuinely painful

"Pleeeeasee just take cobalt"
"no"

[wet root]

The opposite of the USS New Orleans (lost about 150ft of ship, including a turret, to a torpedo, then sailed back home)

[junior heron]

Nebulous players will tell you that it still has a turret and needs to get on A point

[wicked mirage]

That's incredible lol

xD

True!

[wet root]

Apparently two cruisers sailed back from that fight missing their bows actually, the USS Minneapolis did as well

Though she at least kept her turret

[supple sonnet]

here's USS Shaw which had her bow blown off at pearl harbour
(and was then fitted with a comically oversized tripod mast for the trip back for further repairs)

[wary flame]

there were quite a few bow losses

a British destroyer lost the front third at Narvik and made it home fine

[wet root]

That's the image I was originally trying to find!

[wary flame]

usually they would return home in reverse, so as to minimise water pressure on the damaged section

[wet root]

Hopefully they only lost some aux steerings and maybe an RCIC

[glad aurora]

I too love cross-section diagrams

[wary flame]

there was also HMS Zubian, which was the result of one destroyer that lost the bow to a torpedo and one that lost the stern to a mine

after attaching HMS Zulu to HMS Nubian they had one whole DD

The hybrid destroyer was commissioned on 7 June 1917. The choice of name caused confusion among the German Imperial Admiralty Staff, who knew of no such ship under construction.

WW1 destroyers were admittedly puny little things compared to their WW2 counterparts

[wet root]

I'm disappointed they didn't keep both midsections

Long looooong DD

Then if it happens again it can continue extending

[wary flame]

comically long ships are in fact an American specialty

the Omaha class were so long and thin that they were floppy

and the original plan for the Lexington-class battlecruisers in 1914 was this thing

which is a thousand feet long and has seven funnels, some of them are occluded by other funnels in this drawing

it is so thin that it can't fit the stupid number of 1914-vintage boilers it needs to hit 35 knots inside the armour, so there's a bunch of armoured boxes with boilers inside them above the deck armour

turning circle of Yes

[wet root]

I adore ships of that era, funnels are peak aesthetic

[wary flame]

they did not build these but I kind of wish they had

[glad aurora]

weird boiler boxes are very funny

the german Mecklenburg also, iirc, had a random Box on the stern

[quiet quiver]

No context needed, I think

[junior heron]

Needed, no. I can imagine all sorts of dumb situations.
Wanted, sure: was this mines?

[edgy dove]

2 1500 point sprint mine MNs

[edgy dove]

oh

[junior heron]

Wyvern's pretty good, I think they've got this.

[oak shell]

I'm in ERI 5 right now

[supple sonnet]

-# Would've stayed, but unfortunately we got called away and had to leave. Would've stayed just to see how badly we got exploded, though. :P

CheeseSlayer ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) oh 📎

[supple sonnet]

Ayyyyyy!!

Not sure we did too well that match, but for our first time taking out a Railstone, it was fun. :)
(Running a fleet Pyrope recommended us; gun Sprinter, Railstone, heavy Axford, PD Raines to cover the CH. Worked pretty well.)

(Up until bombers ripped us up. :P)

...honestly, as much as we love From The Depths, it's kinda refreshing that fighters, bombers, and missiles are viable in Nebulous.
(In FTD missiles are very hit or miss a lot of the time, given that interceptor missiles are fucking insane and you can essentially build super-Auroras that melt everything, and fighters/bombers struggle to bring enough ordnance to get through insane PD grids, and get absolutely melted by lasers that can hit across the entire battlefield.)
It's nice knowing that we can bring a carrier or a missile boat in the future and contribute. :)

...gosh one day we wanna learn synchronized cruise missile strikes and do giant container volleys/yeet hybrids at people.
...someday. :P

[wet root]

Of course missiles are hit or miss, HE missiles don't have splash damage :P

[wet root]

I definitely recommend starting off with Hybrids, you can splash them into a lot of different ANS fleet archetypes to get comfortable with cruise pathing and dedicated cruise missile fleets for ANS don't need to jump through the time-on-target hoop Container Liners do.

CLNs nowadays tend to loop some of the missiles around on a longer path so they can synchronize two volleys to impact at the same time, but hybrids don't do this for a variety of reasons (shorter missile range, less magazine depth, more accessible volley size modules, PD pen less dependent on volume)

[glad aurora]

broadly, correctly designed hybrids are binary on PD: either the enemy has auroras or they don't

if they have auroras, you won't pen them with s2h. if they don't, you will.

thus, all that matters is softkill resistance and warhead.

[supple sonnet]

Oh, is s2h recommended over s3h?

[glad aurora]

s3h are much more vulnerable to sarissas in transit (limited salvo weight), as well as grazers when sprinting (limited salvo weight), and have limited magdepth

[supple sonnet]

Got it, makes sense. Can they still down capitals if you fire enough of them?

[glad aurora]

s3h are very good at downing capitals, moreso than s2h

in a white room

but the enemy always gets a vote in the matter

[wet root]

S3H take more careful play, but are also able to break any hardkill in the game, and are more effective at capital removal, than S2H

But I wouldn't recommend them for learning because missing or failing to Sarissa-wiggle your S3H salvo means losing 17% of your entire salvo capacity

[supple sonnet]

What's the counterplay to S3H, out of curiosity?
Don't Be There?

[wet root]

Staying far away from cover with a full softkill suite

Dead ship PD

AMMs and craft for air intercepts

[supple sonnet]

Got it.

[junior heron]

the grazer liner:

[wet root]

Falls over to decoys, no?

[glad aurora]

yep

[wet root]

The Aurora+GrazerCello, though...

[glad aurora]

counterplay to s3h is full softkill, sarissa in open space + relying on them to make a mistake, or dualcello aurora and hoping they built the missiles wrong or they come in at a bad angle

[wet root]

Also arguably just playing a cap fleet. It really hurts throwing high-value S3H at cappers, especially if they have AMMs.

[mint sinew]

S3H still really hurts the cap fleet, it should even be positive value for the cruise fleet. Just doesn't give them screenshotable big numbers

[wet root]

It works against a cap fleet, it's just relatively easy for it to go wrong - spend too many missiles and you're losing value, spend too few and you risk AMMs eating half while the rest bounce off the indestructible shuttle nose, plus dead ship PD on points

Even in the best case you're spending more missiles than on any other fleet, the margins are generally thinner

And high-risk high-reward fleets like dedicated yub really need to have high margins to be worth bringing

[supple sonnet]

Quick question: what's the use-case for the OSP R400 'Bloodhound' radar? The long-range, manually targeted, small-cone accurate-track radar.
14km is a giant range, and 30m position plus 0.5 m/s accuracy is nothing to scoff at, but we're not experienced enough to know if that's accurate enough for gunnery targeting. Kinda seems to overlap with the EWR a little?
(We're just kinda digging through gear lists and messing around with a few builds for both sides so we can get a better idea of what both sides bring to the table. Know your enemy, know yourself, yada yada.)

[wet root]

It's accurate enough for gunnery, especially with a Track Correlator

And notably longer-range than jamming caps out at (10km)

So you sit outside their radar range providing firable tracks and there's not anything they can do to avoid getting shot at

[junior heron]

your standard use case is on a tugboat with 2 track correlators, so accuarcy is even better.

[wet root]

It's OSPs answer to the fact that their dedicated FCR (the Pinpoint) is limited to 6.5km

[glad aurora]

(read: you never use it in any case but when you can fit 2-4 track correlators)

[junior heron]

That's also beyond Bullseye (ANS Fire Control 9km) and Spyglass (longest ANS radar 11km) range

[glad aurora]

you put one in a fleet with MDs, rails, or 450, you stay at 11-12km with gun plotting centers, you win

simple as

also the hard limit for AN jamming is 10km so jamming just doesn't work against you

[junior heron]

Though it can have trouble seeing corvettes and frigates at that full range

[wet root]

(Often you'll need to push the 450s themselves closer to not get dodged, but that's part of why you usually put the Bloodhound on its own hull)

[supple sonnet]

...Today we remembered Track Correlators are a thing. :P

[glad aurora]

don't worry, track correlators aren't real outside of the BH and the Spyglass

[supple sonnet]

Also today we learned that OSP mass drivers are not even remotely similar to ANS railguns.
...giant tungsten rod, GO!

[wet root]

Tragically, the 8TC EWR is not enough to make Railguns reliably hit at 15km

[supple sonnet]

Yeah, we know. Just an aside.

[wet root]

I try to make it work about once a year and every time I'm disappointed

[junior heron]

OSP Mass Drivers are kind of the inverted ANS railgun: They do a lot of damage, but only on the surface of the ship

[supple sonnet]

oh my stars the Monitors mount 600mm CANNONS-

[wet root]

Notably they have very low crit chance and damage rays, so they don't actually kill any compartments, but they circle around to the same endpoint as rails, in that they really help a 450mm platform win a fight by overwhelming the target's DC

Mass Drivers, that is. Not 600mm.

[supple sonnet]

Yeah, I figured. :P

Just- Wow that is From The Depths level of GIANT GUN.

(Still not as big as the 18000mm CRAM cannon, though. :P)

[mint sinew]

=3TC huntress is shockingly effective but why bother when you have a bloodhound available

[supple sonnet]

Oh hey, didn't know the ANS/OSP have different craft selections.
We love the Sundial SEWAC. It's so silly looking and we love it. Also 10km radar range is freakin' awesome and we love it for that too.

[oak shell]

Sundial is a great name for it, too

[junior heron]

Sundial is so lovely.
I really adore the skiff too. It reminds me of Star Trek shuttles.

[junior heron]

@wet root what drive setup do you use for your Ocellos?

[wet root]

SunRaider

[junior heron]

hmm

[wet root]

(Boosted Reactor in the last slot, since I run heavy Sarissa and EWAR)

I really think it's hard to justify any other choice for the first two drives, tri-drive is reasonable though IMO

[edgy dove]

Raider sweep

[junior heron]

thoughts on Raider Yard for more LT?

[wet root]

Raider is phenomenal, Sundrive lets you outrun pretty much all ANS capitals and keep up surprisingly well with Vauxen

You go from 25m/s baseline to 18.5, it's so sluggish

[junior heron]

is that slow?

[wet root]

Maybe if they're tied to another ship that's similar speed I could see it, but otherwise Ocellos win or die off positioning

[wet root]

I was going to make a joke about BB players but isn't the Autumn significantly faster than that?

[junior heron]

Autumn is 27 at flank

[supple sonnet]

Autumn?

[junior heron]

my beam battleship

[wet root]

Oh, so same speed as RaiderYard

[junior heron]

actually, in current setup (whiplash dragonfly) it's 16.93, 25 at flank

so even slower

[supple sonnet]

Ohhhhh, we were like "huh? But there's no drives called that and building the UNSC Pillar of Autumn seems a little outside of the power scale of Nebulous..." :P

TomZero (Tommy, he/him) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) my beam battleship

[junior heron]

fun fact: "Autumn of the Storm" is actually just what I misheard the lyrics to the Warcraft 3 credits song as when I was young, and it's just stuck with me

It's a good ship name I think

[mint sinew]

RaiderYard does feel more reasonable if you are running to escort a monitor ball, where you'll end up a lot closer to 450mm sources

[junior heron]

(the lyrics are "upon the Altar of the Storms, I will be reborn" because y'know, that's the name of the Orc Altar)

[wet root]

Yeah, if you're building specifically around that or some sort of particularly laggardly LN build. But that's a very different beast, you'll want to build it a lot more durable and probably won't be fitting 2x CCs in

[wet root]

It is! Nifty Autumn lore there

[junior heron]

I think I've mentioned it before, but before you (Lark) started playing.

[wet root]

It's void duelists that really want the SunRaider, gives them the same speed as WhipWhipRaider Axfords

[junior heron]

I'm building this one for an OSP "Support" fleet that bring the EWR, Bloodhound, SAM Site Tug, and some Jamming that a lot of fleets usually eschew.

[wet root]

And close enough to WhipRaider Vauxen that you can feasibly rotate on them

[junior heron]

And has an Ocello as the centerpiece of that to help support another fleet (probably MN ball as they seem to be the missile magnet)

[wet root]

I would still probably recommend SunRaider there, since it's much faster at moving to support the fleet that needs help

Like, if you're content to deploy with a friendly fleet and never go help anyone else, I suppose it won't do much

[junior heron]

I'm gonna try a game with Raider Yard at first, and see how that feels.

[wet root]

And Yard is better if you are brawling closer in, the turn rate is nice and the durability is... technically existent

(Though the small drive slots in the Ocello are very well protected)

[junior heron]

Yeah I hadn't realized Sundrive had closed the durability gap as much as it had

Still used to thinking of it as "if you breathe on this it dies"

[wet root]

I also hadn't realized it's as durable as it is nowadays

But modules 1 and 2 are pretty much invulnerable unless you're in a position where you're dead anyway on a CC

[mint sinew]

By drive standards it's still pretty fragile

[wet root]

Only 50 HP and 10 DT less than other small drives

[junior heron]

10 DT feels like a lot

[wet root]

I think damage has to exceed DT, not just meet it, to break components? So on Ocellos specifically it's still got enough DT to survive HEI

[junior heron]

so technically the fleet won

On the Shores of Endless Seas was the last ship in our whole team

and it's the jammer shuttle

but we won on points!

[mint sinew]

Not a bad proof of concept then

Looks like even the BH tug made a token effort in combat or was that just a PDT trying to save it?