Nebulous: Fleet Command

[eternal bramble]

do we still shoot boolets at bad guys?

[wet root]

Depending on when you last played, the biggest change is probably that sometimes we fly planes at bad guys instead

If it's been a really long time, it might be that sometimes you or the bad guys aren't playing as ANS

[eternal bramble]

I last played once planes were added

Settra has sat in dry-dock and I have not touched her for at least 4 months

it is likely, maybe even probable, that someone has forced her to pay taxes

[mint sinew]

Biggest mechanical changes since then would be a balance patch or two. Mostly focused on craft-ship interactions and container liners.

So existing fleets may need some points tweaks (and checks of your mounts for liners)

The June 6th patch added modular craft so any fleets with craft from before then will need to remove their existing craft and replace them with new versions

[wet root]

Also what munitions each craft can carry have been pretty heavily revamped, you'll probably have to rejigger all your loadouts

Biggest balance change is probably that bombs aren't able to hit through basically any PD now

[eternal bramble]

grand, is stacking defenders with stonewalls still a viable strat for defending against missiles and bombers?

[mint sinew]

Loading up on some softkill is recommended because the extreme end of strikes will beat almost anything you can put in the way.

However the 20mm + flak combo still works wonders against most things

[mint sinew]

Loading up on some softkill is recommended because the extreme end of strikes will beat almost anything you can put in the way.

However the 20mm + flak combo still works wonders against most things

[wicked mirage]

Btw if anyone wants a fun BB to try, I finally updated all the RWBY Battleships now
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1BrSFTsiUCfHucURR-Z4EhdNXrjimtdUe?usp=sharing

[eternal bramble]

godIlovebattleships

[eternal bramble]

hey you know me Py, more guns!

MORE BEAMS

https://tenor.com/view/more-kylo-ren-adam-driver-screaming-star-wars-gif-17734637

[junior heron]

just got handed a stealth battleship by a disconnect

it's got 2400 flak

[glad aurora]

it has zero softkill, not even a cmd ball

[quiet quiver]

Who needs softkill when you have flak

[wet root]

...all the flak is in the pockets, isn't it

Wait nvm it has side and belly flak too

I can appreciate the nose Citadel for tanking, though perhaps you should have your backup CIC slightly further back when you do that

[mint sinew]

Also running the questionable 3 4TC-Spy but no bullseye combination

[wet root]

Hey, it's 4TC

I could see what they were going for if they had taken a gun on the back, be an invisible artillery BB at 11km

But the hangar confuses me

[glad aurora]

not dying to missiles/craft

since I guarantee they've died many, many times to them

[wet root]

Yeah, but why did they go with the solution that loses them 3/11ths of their firepower instead of pocket VLS-2s ;_;

[glad aurora]

points

[wet root]

Honestly a pretty understandable design (even if the quad-prowler BB is... dubious) outside of that

[wet root]

They had enough points for at least a Raines in addition to the BB

[glad aurora]

... Huh. Wild.

[junior heron]

<@&942093958551588904> Anyone for some games early today? I won't be around in an hour when usual boat night starts.

[mint sinew]

I can be on shortly

[brazen valve]

me too

[wicked mirage]

Why must you tempt me xD I was actually gonna get a nap before DnD today lol

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Cap gaming - vaux 20250803' is composed of 9 ships that cost 3000 points:

       Amethyst Absolver : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun PD]
    Lavender Lollygagger : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun EWar]
             Rusty Razor : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Gun PD]
       Cyanosed Clapback : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Gun PD]
              Grey Goose : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD Gun]
      Determined Diamond : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD Gun]
             Emerald Eye : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun Sensor PD]
Ochre Objective Occupier : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
        Azure Adventurer : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : $MISSILEGUIDANCE_MODE_DIRECT - $MISSILESEEKER_MODE_PASSIVE_ABBREV(WAKE) - $MISSILEWARHEAD_SHORT_HEIMPACT [1pts]
              SGT-329 Face Melter : $MISSILEGUIDANCE_MODE_DIRECT - $MISSILESEEKER_MODE_ACTIVE_ABBREV(RADAR)/[$MISSILESEEKER_MODE_COMMAND_ABBREV] - $MISSILEWARHEAD_SHORT_HEIMPACT [12pts]

[mint sinew]

Hazel reorders things but the torpvettes are each paired with a 2xMK61 vette

[fresh storm]

I am happy to report that all of nebulous seems to function correctly on steam deck, some missing keybinds aside

[olive blade]

nice, how playable is it?

[fresh storm]

hard to say without the time to get used to it, but stuff like 3D commands doesn't feel worse than using a mouse

[olive blade]

Well that's a good sign

[junior heron]

<@&942093958551588904> Fluffy and I are around early, so early boat night ping!

[glad aurora]

07

[oak shell]

I will be on in an hour or so

[real field]

I would but my boats are terrrible xp

[wet root]

Device Located

[oak shell]

Join us anyway!

[late cedar]

Boat

[junior heron]

hello other nebvember tournament watchers

[glad aurora]

very curious how much of a disaster this is, keep me updated

[junior heron]

Game 1: ANS (TF Redwood, the cap fleet, 2 CL, Gun BB) wins on points
OSP (2x 450 LN, 2x 250 LN 1 Ruttle 4 Guttle 1 Cruttle, CLN, MN Ball)

ANS lost 8 sprinters, a CL, a rail DD, and had 2 beam destroyers, a CL, and the BB mission killed

Funniest disaster of the tournament: apparently the brits cannot hear anyone on the event stage except other brits*
*I think that's the correct name for the islands up there/whatever region discord is shuttling it through

And now there are like 40 people in neb's general voice chat

[glad aurora]

ah, I suppose we'll have to wait longer to see the horseshit I was getting deployed against me by the hypergoldstack today

[junior heron]

Game 2: 4 sprinter swarms

[glad aurora]

yep, here it is

[junior heron]

ANS sprinter balls win game 2

[junior heron]

OH YEAH GAME 3 TIME FOR 3 CVLN

[wary flame]

you know I did kind of think I would get to play in this tournament

[junior heron]

Are you in one of the teams?

[wary flame]

I am in MIAB but am not playing because it's 4am right now and I spent all week doing exams rather than practicing

[junior heron]

ah

well, I'm rooting for your team

[wary flame]

at least if we die to abysmal cheese from worse players I get to cross this off my to-do list

[wary flame]

glorious victory over the abysmal cheese

good job team

[junior heron]

nom nom nom

@wicked mirage congrats!

[wary flame]

going to go make a celebratory old fashioned

[junior heron]

congrats to you too misc

but you're already here and talking

[wary flame]

I was morale support

I fight next time

we have some less cheesy tech of our own in the vaults

[junior heron]

I will root for you

OOooh

I'm excited to see

[wet root]

I'm hoping to see at least one Galefrig blob

Genuinely think it's a phenomenal option in this meta, nobody has the hardkill for it rn and craft defenses/softkill do nothing against it

And it can bring unlimited SDMs

[glad aurora]

yep, that's the one that got played against me today!

I got to see both variants of the 9k of carriers!

good to see people aren't waiting with the cheese until semifinals or whatever, if it's right up front and shows up in every match hopefully it'll be obvious what needs to be fixed

[wet root]

Mostly this match showed Taisty's torpedo configurations need to be fixed

[quiet quiver]

Though with proper torps IDK how much better it'd've done, just diverting that much bomber to fight the CLs was a huge momentum loss

So IMO OSP needs to kill not just one but two CLs there to be worth it

Esp b/c killing just one doesn't save Taisty's carrier

[wicked mirage]

Thanks!~

♥️

[wet root]

Huh, zero Ocellos in the first tourney match, I think

Curious to see if that'll remain the case

[restive monolith]

Where can I watch these matches and what time are they at?

[quiet quiver]

They were being streamed on the Neb discord and on Twitch

This is all the round one pairings

The twitch casters were NekoboyBlue and ScapeGT so they should have VODs up, and I think WzSnipes is putting his recording up on YT at some point

[wet root]

Huh, apparently Last Salvo was removed in the most recent balance patch

[restive monolith]

Ah okay

Then I'll just wait for the videos or something.

[mint sinew]

Huh. Must have got dropped in the doctrine reworks

[glad aurora]

Why would you bring them when you can bring more LNs than the enemy has hybrids?

[wet root]

If you want to vaguepost about LN prices can you go do it in balcon?

[glad aurora]

Nothing vague about it (or balcon-related, it's not like I'm proposing some kind of solution)

Ocellos are OSP's solution to long-ranged sensors and hybrid defense; good team comms with correlated LRT, the sheer bulk of massed LN hulls, and the reduction in play of hybrids in an anti-heavy-tonnage role in favor of unguided-spam carriers (taking the return of spamto as "unguided" for all intents and purposes) mean that the Ocello's role is vastly reduced in efficacy or otherwise made outmoded, so I would expect to see very few of them this tournament

So too is the Ocello useful in an anti-jamming role with floodlights, but the prevalence of carrier-based offset sensors, the aforementioned LRT at >10km range, and the lack of (offensive) jamming in the best current AN fleet compositions also obviates that role too

[junior heron]

<@&942093958551588904> Alright it's a little early but, who's up and around for some Boat Night?

[glad aurora]

I'll be around if/when we put the four together, aye

[oak shell]

I'm away from the nebulous machine for a few weeks

[wet root]

That's fair, sorry for being a bit snappish, just seen a lot of complaints about LN costs recently, and while they're justified that doesn't make it any less tiresome to see what looked like a 20th one this week :p

[glad aurora]

nah lmao you're fine

[wet root]

Are Spamtos still using SAH? Because I could see a role for Ocellos in using Floodlights as dual-purpose antijam and broad-spectrum team self-illum

[glad aurora]

I think they are? When they got used against me self-illum didn't work, though (I was in dualcello at the time)

mostly because they're wings of 12 fired from 1.5km or something

the auroras actually work quite well against them because of the fratricide nerf, if the auroras aren't burnt out yet, but in turn CBUspam just wrecks ocellos with zero recourse

[junior heron]

broad spectrum illum for your SAH cuda spam from the ocello-mounted hangars...

[rigid bison]

real..

[glad aurora]

looks like game 1 is started, ping me for 2

[quiet quiver]

AIUI if you're doing spamto, you do SAH b/c it's the only cost-effective option

"Do people still do Spamto?" is another question (yes but it's not popular)

[restive monolith]

You gonna be streaming it cus I'd like to watch

[mint sinew]

Currently streaming

[restive monolith]

Idk where are yall in a vc?

[quiet quiver]

You need the role to see the channels, so I gave it to you

[restive monolith]

Oh tbanks

[mint sinew]

@glad aurora gearing up for g2

[junior heron]

😄

[junior heron]

If you've got any followup questions/comments Palolike/Laura feel free to ask!

[wicked mirage]

I goofed x.x

[junior heron]

goofball

[wicked mirage]

owie lol

[mint sinew]

I got rocketed

[junior heron]

You also carried us quite handily, thank you Fluffy

[wicked mirage]

I didnt see that the Gun BB had me on track and was prefiring as I came around the corner drive first

At the end there

[junior heron]

oof

[wicked mirage]

Was that Gun BB also a cap fleet?

[junior heron]

nope

[wicked mirage]

ah kk

[junior heron]

that was Lark's

[wicked mirage]

Gotcha

[junior heron]

Fluffy was the cap fleet that got rocketed

[wicked mirage]

I cant believe all that 450 didnt do anything to you Lark 😩

[mint sinew]

Yeah I pretty much just traded for the R2 carrier but got to cap some points

And apparently destroy some random shuttle because my seeker cones just missed the rock hugging moorline

[junior heron]

lol yeah

weapon view needs to come back so that you can get in cockpit view from your fighters

[wicked mirage]

How damaged was the Gun BB at the end?

[mint sinew]

Basically fine

[restive monolith]

Thanks I kinda zoned out a lot tho so I didn't really watch much

Spaceships are cool is all I know

That and trying to take inspiration for my own spaceships in space engineers.

[glad aurora]

BB didn't, I was aggressively pushing up the sundial because I assumed Hunter was mostly out of juice to intercept it

[wicked mirage]

I see lol

fair enough

[wet root]

I only got track at the last second, but had been poking the MNs, and you popped out pretty much between us

[wicked mirage]

Yeah, makes sense lol

[sharp crow]

popping in to say: 5 girls 1 grungler is an excellent team name

[quiet quiver]

@fresh storm I have recently found out that you are not the first/only player to play Neb via steam deck

[junior heron]

is that how Falke-Tethys is explaining these missile strikes

[junior heron]

in case we run into the 10% tidi bug, according to Lys (martyr of kharak)

but I think this means time-scale 10 multiplayer games are theoretically possible

for meme games

[wet root]

Oh no

Time-scale 10 ruttles only

[wet root]

....just caught up on the tourney vods, I am so glad that someone brought ||40 ruttles|| and made a real game of it

[wary flame]

it is disgusting cheese but it was a fun game to watch

I wonder if we'll see any seriously CL-heavy comps in an attempt to screen against mass ruttle and mass carrier

[junior heron]

<@&942093958551588904> anyone for some mid-week neb?

[wet root]

I'll hopefully be around for it tomorrow, but won't be home for a long while today

[wicked mirage]

Wanna play a game?

[jagged nest]

Little boop
I finally joined this server. After not being able to login to my old one after my phone dying.

[olive blade]

hi and welcome!

[wet root]

Welcome back!

[junior heron]

welcome back!

[wicked mirage]

Welcome back!

[junior heron]

<@&942093958551588904> Boat Night!

sorry for being 1 minute late

[wet root]

How dare

I'll be around in 10 mins, finishing foods

[junior heron]

how dare

[glad aurora]

oh hey, I forgot it was Saturday

[junior heron]

happy saturday

[glad aurora]

(I am sick, all time is an illusion)

that said I am here™

[junior heron]

oof

(to being sick, glad you're here)

[wicked mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/walter-white-walter-white-falling-gif-25293991

[supple sonnet]

ooh, boat night?

[jagged nest]

Little boop

Are you all going to play another game after this one?

[junior heron]

spectators

[jagged nest]

Buns!

[junior heron]

they're just sitting there

hanging out

[supple sonnet]

https://tenor.com/view/bnuuy-bunny-shitpost-rabbit-mm-yees-bnuuy-gif-7970488282837678817

[wet root]

Interesting damage on this sensor buoy after an unfortunate training ground incident

Structure broken, rotated, and otherwise entirely unharmed despite 0 DC

(Thruster damage doesn't count, because no drives)

Watching this tournament has made me want to join the next one

[mint sinew]

Any ship can bow tank as long as it believes!

[wet root]

The power of friendship ablative thrusters

[stone horizon]

Boy oh boy I come back to the game and find out I’m outdated

I never figured out how to play the new faction, and now we got strikecraft

[oak shell]

Welcome back

[wet root]

Welcome back! OSP is a lot of fun! Craft are... interesting, and still quite in flux.

[junior heron]

the road to vice admiral is gonna be a hell of a time

[junior heron]

bumping to resurrect the thread

<@&942093958551588904> Boat Night!

[mint sinew]

I am present, just on a call with my folks for a minute

[junior heron]

do we want to go pile into ERI 7

[misty storm]

Big circles?

[wet root]

I'm extremely confused what they are

Chaff just started emitting them if I'm zoomed in on it in tac view

[junior heron]

It's the same as the trails ships leave in tac view so I think somehow the chaff counts as moving?

[junior heron]

incredibly cursed idea for the double sunjourneys:
I can make 1 that's the forward actual carrier, and a second journeyman that lags behind and is basically extra storage for the second

very excited to micro four times as hard for 10% more effectiveness

[wet root]

Extra storage, as in doesn't have any craft but does have ammo for them to resupply with?

[junior heron]

it can carry craft too
but it's not carrying any weapons, nor any buffing modules

[wet root]

...isn't that just a normal cheap journeyman, then?

But fast

[junior heron]

it's cutting out the middleman of my usual "well I've lost about 55 of each journeyman but in different ways"

kind of

it's not built to be fast

[oak shell]

Can you launch craft from one carrier and land them on another?

[junior heron]

yep

[wet root]

I think I get the idea but it's also extremely funny that your solution to problems with your weird frontline journeyman fleet is to add a standard journeyman to it

[junior heron]

The journeyman can take 2 sundrives!

it can go 50m/s!

I should use that!

everyone else is wrong

[wet root]

The Ocello can take 3! ...I may regret mentioning this...

[junior heron]

short strike from odd angles is the way!

[wet root]

tbh I think a lot of the reason nobody uses that is it's a pain to constantly swap from flank to flight quarters

[junior heron]

and this is why Jman should get +100% flight quarters speed as a hull bonus

[wet root]

It would be a really fun way of making it unique

[glad aurora]

shrimply torpcello sunsunwhip, never move your nose anywhere again

[mint sinew]

Thankfully the jman has a surprising amount of LT so it's pretty good at slowing down

[simple drum]

Boop, since the thread got hidden

[tulip vault]

I don’t think just reposting nebcord complaining about the game is really the vibe

[rigid bison]

“Balcon succ” is a known factor

[junior heron]

<@&942093958551588904> Boat Night!

1 whole minute early

[oak shell]

<@&942093958551588904> next game

[mint sinew]

No Neb for me today I'm afraid. Have good games!

[simple drum]

hmmm

[junior heron]

looks like Lark and Perijove are hopping off, but I'm still around

[wicked mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/wwe-gif-22807017

Game?

[junior heron]

I have been pulled away to nightreign with another group of friends

[wicked mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/skeleton-reaction-information-my-reaction-to-that-information-my-honest-reaction-to-that-information-gif-613275461876515673

[wet root]

Unfortunate end to the tournament

[wary flame]

I completely missed it, what happened?

[mint sinew]

It didn't, one of the teams forfeited

[quiet quiver]

Forfeited because they were down three of their six players, FYI

Two of their non-subs were busy this whole weekend, and then one player had a severe migraine and had to drop out last minute

[glad aurora]

well, the migraine is understandable, but did they just never think they'd make finals or something

last tournament I scheduled over finals because it was obvious I was never getting near an elimination game, but these guys knew they had a chance

[quiet quiver]

Well all 8 teams are competing this weekend b/c it's either Swiss system or something similar

[junior heron]

Yeah, unfortunate, but it seems like there's still some matches tomorrow at least

It's been fun to watch

Hunter should have played Mine CLN in their last game

[glad aurora]

why are people playing mineshit lately
I've asked ingame and the answers I get are usually "it's fun" or no answer at all, and their team loses every single time

[quiet quiver]

Hunter started doing it themself to disprove the idea that mines are fun, and then accidentally had fun instead

And then when one of the most well-known and active players is playing something every game, you get copycats

[wary flame]

I still think sprint traps were never actually bad

[glad aurora]

it's not sprint traps, it's 3k of just mines

[wary flame]

they are perhaps slightly below par for the cost considering they are ludicrously chaffable but they still work

[glad aurora]

predictably the team playing 9k vs. 12k auto-loses

[wary flame]

and yeah, the 3k mine spam device is one of those pub utility monsters

team loses but you get schadenfreude

[quiet quiver]

Sometimes more than 3k of mines

Some games this week are like double mine CLN plus some wacky Mine Device fleet that can get on cap points spew out mines

[junior heron]

-# I also might have encouraged them a little bit by saying I had fun in one of the mine matches.

They won that game too.

[glad aurora]

I guess that's the inevitable outcome of the game becoming "OSP brings 9k of frontline -> OSP wins (unless AN brought 2-4x CBU levy, in which case AN wins)"

(that is, people are bringing Whatever because they're tired of seeing the same matches over and over)

[wet root]

Oh, I'd somehow confused myself into thinking it was the very last match, still unfortunate but less so

[wet root]

But don't you know mines are super oppressive game-ruining devices that should be removed IMMEDIATELY.

Apparently poor Taisty had set up their exp to level up after the tournament game that didn't end up happening, rip

[wary flame]

well, I have officially earned temporary eternal shame for forgetting to load ammo into the railcello for my tourney game

[junior heron]

Didn't you already solve this exact problem

[wary flame]

a funny end to the world's most scuffed tourney

[junior heron]

I swear I remember you doing exactly this once before

[wary flame]

I would not be surprised

[junior heron]

was that yukon game the last match?

[wary flame]

yeah

oh no, we have one, maybe two more

[junior heron]

yeah that was my next question

is "if that's the last game what's this current game"

[wary flame]

I read that as "was it the yukon game that was played most recently" for a second

no, that was game 1 of set

shame, if we'd had a railcello I think we could have done numbers

[junior heron]

yeah

[wary flame]

I was actually quite proud of my liner control in the match itself

[wet root]

My "Oh nooooo" when Scape moused over the mag was audible

I liked the attempted bluff of it as a torpcello

Mostly I'm glad minespam went as well as expected

[wary flame]

yeah

an honourable loss apart from the railcello

honestly that was such a scuffed tourney I was past worrying about our placement by the time of today's matches

[glad aurora]

how scuffed is scuffed

[wary flame]

tons of skew lists and all-ins, finals didn't even play because one team couldn't get 4 players together, etc.

"do funny coordinated stuff and maybe win" is admittedly better than every match being stomped by the same precision comps

[glad aurora]

aren't the all-ins just the good comps? genuine question

[wary flame]

eh, they're more coinflips

I think rocket shuttles may be a bit overtuned considering that ANS is heavily incentivised against running actually good cappers to contest them with

otherwise, things seem mostly reasonable

[wet root]

Craft still seem problematic, but yeah, otherwise the only thing that really stood out to me as a spectator were the rocket shuttles

It was funny seeing how Beamstones became less skeletal over the course of the tournament, after a few too many punishes on the completely naked ones

For the ruttles I think my main point of concern was how easily they were able to break PD on CLs, their ostensible counter, but part of that is definitely the heavy-softkill meta

[wet root]

That one match on Caltrop where ANS correctly predicted mass carrier and went all-in on anticraft was excellent

The S2cellos as an answer to "oops all softkill" was fun as well

[wary flame]

I still actually like the totally skeletal beamstones but they really are gambling

[wet root]

It's nice that they're an option but also absolutely a risk

Helps avoid a Beamstone monoculture, which would be highly vulnerable to diseases

[supple sonnet]

Was that trough just saturation launches or bringing a lyrebird to act as a ship baised SSJ?

Lark ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) For the ruttles I think my main point of concern was how easily they were able to break PD on CLs, t…

[wet root]

Generally just saturation I believe

In some of the last few matches there were squads of 3 shuttles with a Lyrebird hunting CLs, but I'm more talking about earlier in the tourney where there were quite a few instances of a single double-R18 shuttle jumping a lone CL with 2xRebounds and effectively removing the CL

[supple sonnet]

Oh wow that's a bit of a surprise. like we could see that shaking out whit like defenders. but with flack

[junior heron]

@wary flame around to voice chat?

[junior heron]

<@&942093958551588904> anyone up for some technically-mid-week games?

[oak shell]

I could be

[glad aurora]

ditto, albeit I'm currently slowly grinding through the last of this massive plate of curry

[oak shell]

We're in ERI 6

[glad aurora]

Movie event starting sooner than expected, will finish the match but have to switch VCs

[mint sinew]

I believe in the MD MN

[wicked mirage]

Awesome! Well done ^^

[junior heron]

<@&942093958551588904> Boat Night!

[wet root]

<@&942093958551588904> https://youtu.be/05rc5j9QxAA

[chilly yoke]

Pog??

[junior heron]

Ooooh

[mint sinew]

<@&942093958551588904> Boat Morning!

[junior heron]

ah heck you beat me to it

[glad aurora]

the vauxhall evade setting sending my lead directly into the rock I was trying to hide behind got me fucked up in the club

I was wondering why it stopped, went out of tacmap, and went wait. Wait. Oh no

https://tenor.com/view/running-explosion-gif-21340471

[wet root]

Upside of random walk: harder to hit
Downside of random walk: random walk

[tulip vault]

huhhhh neat. I'm still overall disappointed in the direction of the game honestly, but this is really neat in its own regard. Something which is neither a roguelike nor a surival game one can play with friends? very neat

[wet root]

I'm cautiously optimistic about the idea of custom campaigns

And it being coop is delightful

[tulip vault]

Yeah it has a ton of potential for sure, especially with the mechanical depth there seems to be on top of the normal skirmish stuff

It does just suck a little to see skirmish wallow, as someone who was 100% sold on neb by the skirmish mode

[wet root]

Yeah...

[glad aurora]

damn shame my mic setup sucks as much as it does, they'll definitely have pros going for this

[wicked mirage]

I'm gonna throw my hat into the ring

Everyone tells me I have a nice voice, so you know what screw it lets goooooo

[wet root]

Good luck! But also it'll be super weird to hear people I know in the game, lol

[junior heron]

I did pass this along to my sibling, who's been wanting to do voice acting, so if they get in that'll be a similar weirdness.
Fortunately that has made Christmas 1 present easier for me.

[glad aurora]

lmfao

that hekp change probably means a couple dozen more HEI missiles for me

[wet root]

Definitely going to be poking at HEKP S2H, they might finally be worth the cost

[glad aurora]

I guess surrender CL may be back, and a good thing too because this is the Patch of Carriers Aren't Real Ever

[junior heron]

250 flak

oooh

[wet root]

Thank goodness for 100mm flak being gone TBH

I am baffled at this change:

Increased base inaccuracy of R-1 rocket pods to 3 degrees (was 0.1).
Especially without a cost buff for them

...wait, the Remise isn't noted as being frag only, is S1 spam going to be the new flavour of the day?

[mint sinew]

I think that's just for consistency with the unguided munition nerf across the board

Because the pods are technically a gun

[glad aurora]

indeed it is

completely inexplicable considering R1s are widely agreed to be utter garbage after the repeated nerfs they've taken though

oh, CBU-40 wasn't nerfed along with its fix so we can look forward to finding out whether infinite SDM spam works against the return of four CBU-40 levies

I suppose that's a carrier archetype that survived

no nerfs on rocket CLN, no magdepth nerfs to CLN either

[wet root]

Not being able to force them into evade is a pretty big buff to bombers, no?

[glad aurora]

for long-range stealth standoff bombers, yes (my favorite archetype, just one that auto-loses to softkill)

[wet root]

Obviously the maneuver nerf is a huge hit to all strikecraft

In that hopefully now ship-based weaponry other than 250 RPF interacts with them to any degree

[glad aurora]

significantly reduced maneuver + SDM spam + continued SDM one-shots on bombers will just mean that you'll get a shot off, theoretically, and then immediately die

• highco nerfs

[wet root]

Okay, the Remise is locked to Frag/EL Frag, it's just not noted

And direct only, which makes sense since you can't use cruise from craft

[glad aurora]

reduced decoytainer range is quite fortunate, and likely thrown in at the last minute due to the horseshit from the day before yesterday

but thank god for it

easy nerf where we'll see if it makes it less abusive

[mint sinew]

Yeah, so thankful for it. If that wasn't added I was going to have to start campaigning for them getting booted from bank launchers

[wet root]

You can make a CMD Remise that kills fighters for 2 points, takes three of them to pop a bomber though

[glad aurora]

yeah, remise is a meme missile for people who still care about top gun

[mint sinew]

Depends how they do as AMMs

[wet root]

You can get an AMM/anticraft one for 1 point with ACT/WAKE

[glad aurora]

fighters need to be relevant before using them to kill other planes is relevant, and the use case for them just got nerfed into the ground (deservedly, in the case of R2 cudas)

[mint sinew]

If you can get a cheap remise that shoots down SDM2s then I think you are onto something

[wet root]

I actually think they're pretty phenomenal as a missile defense backpack on Liners now

[glad aurora]

Oh?

[mint sinew]

They were already good, but cheap AMMs brings them up again

Need to test how the burst guns do of course

[wet root]

1 point for an AMM that kills anything but torps or hardened skin S3H and can also punch bombers en masse is pretty efficient

[glad aurora]

Guns don't work for PD unless you're AN anyway

[mint sinew]

Burst 20mm off cudas

[glad aurora]

This is true, you just suffer the cost of having to deal with bringing craft etc in the first place

[wet root]

No disagreement there lol

[mint sinew]

That's so much G! I think there is some promise here

[wet root]

It's the same stats as a normal S1

Just cheaper and with a backup seeker

[glad aurora]

in general I'm looking very suspiciously at carriers this patch compared to "unnerfed rocket CLN" and "S2H spam but ~200pts cheaper" unless it's the similarly unnerfed and also fantastic "just spam CBU-40s lmao"

[wet root]

Makes SSJ much less reliable

[mint sinew]

Really? Guess I haven't looked at numbers in a while

[wet root]

That's just the default centerpoint on the missile triangle, didn't bother moving it

[mint sinew]

This is patch 1 of a PTB cycle. Those seem like easy things to tune in as it goes on. "Test the unchanged good things" is exactly what people are good at in ptb

[wet root]

HoJ bumps it up to 2 points though unless you bring the damage down to 56, which misses the S3H breakpoint

So if you're aiming at SSJ hybrids you have to gamble on wake bringing it close enough

Ooh, nice, the CMD S2H I've been running on my spotter/bomber Raines now only costs 11 points instead of 12

And only 17 points if I swap for HEKP

[glad aurora]

CBU-40spam is not easy to nerf, considering it's remained exactly the same since, what

Fratricide bomb change? Maybe?

R2 CLN is theoretically easy to nerf but CLN is never easy to nerf because the Neb community plays two different games, one where it's garbage and the other where it free farms its way to 70-100k

god knows if there was an easy fix to missile fleets which could account for how vast the missile-related skill cliff is, it'd be implemented already

[wet root]

Will be interesting to see how effective the new 250mm Flak is

Hopefully they let it be reasonably good, given it's stuck to casemates (and Ocellos)

[glad aurora]

hopefully will mandate approaching LNs from off angles, which'll be definitely interesting

[wet root]

...er, I assume it's stuck to casemates at least. Let me double check it's OSP-only

Okay yeah it is

[mint sinew]

The open question for me is if it goes into a MK65 on the Ocello

Because that wasn't called out as getting timed ammo

[wet root]

Oh, good point, let me check

It's not listed under "For Current Mounts/Spacecraft Only", but you can add it to the mag. To the testing range!

Nope, not listed under the fireable ammo types in the range

Stats, btw:

Even less damage than 100mm flak had, but presumably the evade maneuver nerf will help it be usable

[glad aurora]

yeah, most of the time flak just never hit anyone

[wet root]

Hopefully it has a bigger AoE too

[glad aurora]

that said, casemate-locked and less damage is a bit

why bring it when you can keep shooting at the axford bearing down on you and massacre the whole load of bombers with SDM-2s

[wet root]

What I really want to complement this is a C1 or C2 dedicated flak gun

Depending on how effective it is it could be interesting bringing some 250mm roof guns on a 450mm liner to roll into position when you see craft

[glad aurora]

250mm turreted short-barrel mortar would be rather funny

vomits out one (1) 250mm flak shell

[mint sinew]

return of the drive section C53

[junior heron]

Did some testing now that there's some cheap defensive missiles.
Fighter Pylon Order

Tanto S1 Bay Pylon Order
B1, B4, B2, B3, W2, W3, W1, W4

Barracuda Pylon Order
T3, T2, T4, T1, B2, B3, B1, B4

Skiff Pylon Order
E1, E3, E2, E4

[misty storm]

wadda hell

god i havent played this game in so long

[wet root]

Oh nice apparently the starter fleets got updated in PTB

[glad aurora]

Oh? How?

[wet root]

Oak has softkill

Azurite is a Torpcello

Not sure of the other changes off the top of my head, I'm not very familiar with the starter fleets

[glad aurora]

jesus that's some serious changes

it used to be explicit that Oak should not have any kind of softkill, iirc

torpcello is funny, I suppose we can look forward to a lot of donations in blue lobbies both to and from it

[wet root]

Some truly cursed stuff with the new Remise missile, if you save and load a fleet with one it gains maximum maximum warhead and engine simultaneously - and not just a graphical glitch, it can fire outside max warhead max range and still one-shot fighters

[oak shell]

@quiet quiver would you pin this, please?

[wet root]

...I think this is actually pretty good on cappers?

[quiet quiver]

Eh? It's pretty niche info

[bitter furnace]

someone made a valid point that me requiring this of Oak but not Cobalt was hypocritical

[glad aurora]

should hopefully also prevent people turning full broadside, assuming it's the standard back-slot pair softkill suite

[bitter furnace]

Oak updated with ADs and Interrupt instead of rear turrets
Birch reworked to more well-rounded 2x LC + FFL fleet
Sycamore reworked to a five-Sprinter missile skirmisher formation
Willow updated to include beam destroyers
Azurite reworked to a torpedo assassin + support fleet
Amethyst / Wulfenite updated for latest (two months ago) craft meta

We did this starter update cycle two months ago but Lys didn't release it due to unrelated gamedev pipeline reasons. The updates are just in PTB now by default, but all the point costs and craft designs are borked because a ton of balance changes have now happened ontop of them. So we'll need to fix it again before this releases

[glad aurora]

Sprinter bomber starter fleet? Damn.

[wet root]

Makes sense, I assume they'll only get updated for the final points costs when it's ready for main

[glad aurora]

actually, hold on, wait a second

my sources are telling me the opps are unprepared.

[glad aurora]

enough to outsource the bullseye to a prowler lockvette and buy an Actual CMD Jammer thanks to the mount reshuffling. praise be.

[noble zodiac]

alternatively you could get

more missiles

[violet root]

Why use flares, when you could launch the same number of missiles?

[junior heron]

<@&942093958551588904>
I figure it'd be best to ask a little bit early: do we want to play Main or PTB this upcoming boat night(s)? If PTB probably would be nice if we stick to testing what got changed to give some feedback.

[wicked mirage]

I'm down for either ^^

[misty storm]

2 point hekp…

[misty storm]

ADs?

[bitter furnace]

common abbreviation for the EA99 'Conure' Active Decoy

[misty storm]

Oh right

I forgot they were moved to S2

Can ADs take the place of a chaffbox if you already have a VLS2 or don’t have space for a chaffbox?

[junior heron]

It's really expensive (8 for AD vs 1 for chaff) but kind of.

[glad aurora]

If you don't have space for a chaff box, make space.

WAKE and its derivatives are too prevalent not to.

[misty storm]

Oh fair

[junior heron]

Hardkill will save me.

[mint sinew]

Is it time for the return of the aurora device?

[wicked mirage]

<@&942093958551588904> PTB LOBBY UP Who wants some BLOOOOOOOOOOOOD?!

[edgy dove]

😔

[wet root]

@wicked mirage @mint sinew I'm hopping in voice

[junior heron]

turns out, gonna go run an errand anyway

hopefully I'll be around for a game 2 if one happens

[oak shell]

I'd like to join but I'm on a boat

[glad aurora]

Did the lobby get nuked from orbit or did they just ban me from public servers

[noble zodiac]

holy shit
boat night in real

[wet root]

I think it got restarted to increase the player cap to 20

[glad aurora]

Ah, welp

[wet root]

Booo, Lys fixed the CBUs doing sick 180s

Video stolen from the Nebcord:

[glad aurora]

CBU Everywhere System

[wet root]

Lmao you can get a size 1 SAH HEKP for 1 point. I'm skeptical of how useful it is, given it has to have minimum warhead size (41 penetrator damage, 132 explosion damage), but it's very funny.

You can get 8km range and still have 19cm of armor pen!

[supple sonnet]

we had a wake s1 HEKP desigen that we had some luck with way back befoer it was ANS only. but it dose not take much HEKP into the drive/reacotr stack to cause power manigment problems

[junior heron]

added Skiff pylon order because I figured I might as well

[supple sonnet]

Sounds useful for er, A2A.

Lark ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) Lmao you can get a size 1 SAH HEKP for 1 point. I'm skeptical of how useful it is, given it has to…

If it connects.

[wet root]

I think the inaccuracy would make it miss, but worth confirming

[mint sinew]

because of the seeker inaccuracy you do need CMD with a good track to score direct hits, which can work but is costly at 4pts a shot

[wet root]

<@&942093958551588904> Boats boats boats

[junior heron]

slightly late, had a kitchen mishap

[wicked mirage]

Got DnD unfortunately x.x

[junior heron]

@wary flame calling out the react on this to try and summon an eighth to this lobby (in jest)

[wicked mirage]

Thank you random name generator

This is a ruttle btw

[noble zodiac]

WOW

cackling

yeah that certainly fits the hull

[edgy dove]

Posting at 3:20 am is diabolical lmao

[junior heron]

here to brag about my specialest boy, Tanto PF-440Z Understander

who killed 2 shuttles and 2 bomber flights

[mint sinew]

What a good boy

[wicked mirage]

Hell yeah! That's some insane value. You've got the guy from Ace Combat in that Tanto!

[noble zodiac]

died 2025
born 2025
welcome back arbiter flight

[restive monolith]

Bought nebulous recently but uh I dunno guess I'll figure out how to play with practice. A lot of it is also just me fumbling the buttons cus I forget what button does what again after the tutorial

Like I can do missile strikes with a mix of different missiles but I didn't know I could do that

And I don't know how to do that

[oak shell]

Missile strikes are the hardest skill to learn in Nebulous, you can simply avoid using them for a while while you get used to the other controls.

I don't use a lot of hotkeys myself. Mostly move, heading and roll.

[quiet quiver]

I use decoy and lock a bunch

[restive monolith]

I'm sure as a new player I didn't think it through fully or whatever but I was trying to think of what I'd like to play as n I think I'd wanna just play with a lot of like sprinter corvettes outfitted for electronic warfare and missiles so I can sneak close to people then start jamming them and fire missiles from relatively close by. Also being able to paint a picture of the surroundings to my teammates n escorting them n such. That seemed like a fun idea to me

But then I'd have to like be able to do missiles properly

[oak shell]

That is a high skill kind of gameplay. It means understanding what range to stay at for your jammers to be effective

[restive monolith]

Tho I'm not gonna get into multiplayer yet anyway. I have a friend irl who plays nebulous so he can teach me things

[restive monolith]

Then I'll try something simple I guess

[glad aurora]

everyone learns with TF Oak and Cobalt Squadron

simple, teaches you important concepts, less "master these or die"

[junior heron]

EWAR sprinters with torps or hybrids can be fun, I think one of the ptb fleets is set up for that. I don't think it's fully necessary to play Oak/Cobalt first, and a small EWAR ship can be a different way to learn positining and map awareness, as you get the radar return warning to know when you're in danger.

[quiet quiver]

I mean best jammer range is basically "as far as possible" since sensor strength increases faster than jammer strength as you get closer, different things just affect what the max "as possible" is

Jammers have a max distance of 12km (blanket) or 10km (bellbird), but your sensor range or weapon range might want you to get a little closer than that

Playing with jamming vs weapon range is trickier on gun fleets than missile fleets, since missiles on these fleets don't often have issues reaching max jammer range, but gun accuracy is very range dependent

[edgy dove]

You know, there's an archetype for that called sprinter bombers

Go way above or below the map, race to their backline, and dump a bunch of hybrids into their CLN or CVLN until it dies

[quiet quiver]

Also yeah was gonna get to that, sprinter bombers is the AN archetype for that (the name predates carriers and true bombers)

[edgy dove]

iriS (a new player mentor) did a training night and dumped one of his fleets for it a while back. You're probably be able to find it somewhere if you look hard enough

[quiet quiver]

TF Sycamore is being reworked into that archetype in the next update too

(Currently Sycamore is half a sprinter bomber fleet, half a cruise missile frigate fleet)

[oak shell]

sneak close to people
was part of the stated intention

[quiet quiver]

Oh I missed the sneak close

[glad aurora]

yeah, if you try to sneak close as sprinters right now you're dead

and that's with gameplay mastery

[edgy dove]

Sneak close is more often than not a death sentence

[glad aurora]

entering 100mm range of OSP frontline is the fail state for sprinters

[quiet quiver]

Nah it's doable, though it's a mix of "sneak" and "charge", people are experimenting with it and it's putting in work

100mm kills sprinters pretty quick, but torps kill liners faster

And T30 liners are not common RN

One player is even messing with S1 sprinters instead of torps

[glad aurora]

There's always more liners, though

Trading 3k for two 250LNs is kills, but negative value

very good against the ocello spam™ in pub lobbies though

what're they going to do, overpen you?

[junior heron]

I'm pretty sure Blanket is also 10km.

[edgy dove]

Blanket is 10km

[quiet quiver]

Damn I misremembered

[quiet quiver]

I've seen people trading it for like 6k of LN and having surviving vettes

[edgy dove]

Uncter did that yesterday with SAH S1 light cav

[glad aurora]

I assume the S1 is how you have enough magdepth to pull that off, yeah

[edgy dove]

8(?) Sprinters with VLS-1-46s and 23s all with SAH S1s SB'd and redded out a 450LN, 250LN, and killed a number of smaller assets

[wet root]

FWIW the only keybindings I use are Shift, Control, Shift-Z for chaff, and F which I've rebound to flip the map - I've been informed I'm a bit odd in this respect, but the game is very much playable without memorizing the hotkeys

(I do keep intending to use keybindings more, just haven't gotten around to it)

[wet root]

Probably thinking of Spotlight, it's unique among radar jammers/illuminators for hitting 12k

[quiet quiver]

Right it's spotlight

[restive monolith]

sure this isnt anything impressive but this is my first skirmish match. idk let me know if i did okay i guess n what i could improve?

[mint sinew]

I mean you won the Oaks mirror which is good work and most of the damage you did take was to your bow so you were oriented correctly for the fights that you took so that's good work.

[glad aurora]

don't fight ANS v. ANS and vary up the fleets so you can get some experience having to deal with lighter targets, swap your ammo types, and protect more fragile teammates

otherwise, what Fluffy said

[mint sinew]

You seem to have been leaning on 450mm HE which is good into the flanks of Axfords but when bow on you'll be wanting to use AP

[restive monolith]

Yeah I didn't know what fleets I should try against so I just did that

Ah okay

[glad aurora]

The usual structure you'll see in multiplayer matches is two to three frontline fleets and one "cap" fleet for objective play

[restive monolith]

I wasn't sure when to be using ap and when HE tho against fresh targets I tried to use the AP first for a bit then switch to HE. One time in particular I got the achievent for hitting 2 enemies with 1 bullet so I thought to myself "maybe I'm doing enough armour penetration"

[glad aurora]

since you aren't really going to know how to defend against missiles yet, I'd recommend setting your enemies up as one Cobalt, one Tantalum, one Kyanite, and one of whatever the OSP plasma/100mm fleet is

[restive monolith]

Ah

[glad aurora]

then you can give yourself one TF Birch, one TF Hemlock, you play TF Oak, and take an AI TF Willow for your capfleet

[restive monolith]

Alright thanks

[glad aurora]

if Hemlock does too well with its missiles at whatever level of AI you're on, swap it for a second TF Oak

[restive monolith]

Ah okay

I was playing on easy for the record yeah

[glad aurora]

No shame in that for your first skirmish at all

[restive monolith]

Mhm

This game is very fun so far n I'm excited to get into things I'm more interested in cus playing oaks throwing metal at stuff isn't the most exciting experience.

[glad aurora]

Pfftha, that's the truth

[restive monolith]

The fights were just ships throwing shit at each other until 1 of them finally broke and it took so long sometimes

[junior heron]

Gunfight can be like that, especially in an ANS mirror and even more especially in a 1v1 where there's no way to get a flanking angle. Things start dying faster when there's 4 fleets in the game.
I'll also run counter to Ash's advice and suggest trying out some other fleets if you're not interested in TF Oak. If you go to the test branch you can find some updated starter fleets, though their point costs will be a little off.

[wet root]

Yoinked from the Nebcord

[restive monolith]

I see

[wet root]

(You don't need to know the whole chart, but gives a reference for your current fleet. E.g. for Axfords you'll use HE for everything but Ocello and MN noses)

And yeah try the fleets you want to play, don't feel obligated to play Oak

[restive monolith]

Tbf I'll probably play oak like a couple more times cus I'll probably end up overwhelmed having to use missiles

[restive monolith]

maybe i should set the bots to medium difficulty if this is my 2nd skirmish. i set up the fleets like yall said except i think i accidentally put in a fleet with carriers idk if that was the intention

[mint sinew]

Kyanite has a few craft on the back of the marauders for scouting and defense, not a bad intro to them on either side of the battlespace

Nice shooting

[restive monolith]

Yeah no one decided to shoot me. Then again I did take a path along the rocks constantly and I tried to only be able to be shot at by the target I was shooting at

I also didn't switch ammo type cus I'm pretty sure I was supposed to use HE on these anyway so?

At one point I got scared shitless cus like 4 big looong ships descended (I guess relative to me) from behind a rock but then only like 2 of them decided to even shoot at me

[glad aurora]

Going up to medium looks like a good idea.

You use 450HE on LNs, but 450AP on the Ocellos if they're pointing their bows at you.

[restive monolith]

Yeah there was an ocello messing with my team but I just descended from behind a rock n could unleash full broadsides into it

It did not survive it long

[glad aurora]

Yup, ocellos fall apart real quick broadside

[restive monolith]

For the entire match I was just chilling in practically the same spot cus nothing challenged me out of it. Until eventually there were so many dead ships nearby I was worried one might have a reactor overload n blow up n kill me

[glad aurora]

good changes

finally hitting CLN magdepth means that "perfectly softkill the first 6 salvos, die to the 7th because you physically had too little chaff" should no longer be a thing

I wonder if you can fit three 250cellos which aren't dogshit into a fleet.

[wet root]

The answer to the last one is nope, but people will try to do it anyway

[glad aurora]

Unfortunate, since two ocellos just isn't enough weight of 250 to do anything

Buffs for Mk65 incoming surely

[wet root]

250 Ocello + PlasLN might not be the worst, gives you a lot of versatility

[quiet quiver]

The 1k Ocello is shit but two 1200 pt Minibosses leaves you 600 pts for other stuff

(I think Miniboss was 1200 pts)

[wet root]

Yeah I can see that

I'm always skeptical of tieing an Ocello to the speed of a brick but you could get a PlasMN in 600 points

[glad aurora]

The craft evasion changes might mean flak works better against them, but my experience with flak/RPF so far is that 12 barrels is your minimum buy-in

[wet root]

Well, one Ocello is 9 barrels, and flak was buffed (at least against multiple craft)

[glad aurora]

hm, let's throw up PTB and see if I can fit two 250cellos and a wing of ruttles with lyrebird in 3k

if the ocellos can't kill an axford, they'll have to get the capper cruise missile to do it for them

[wet root]

Unfortunately I think the Lyrebird will make that difficult, but will be close

[junior heron]

And a message from Lys explaining some of the changes.

[wet root]

Wait I just realized what this PTB means

I can finally run a true FlakMaxxed Ocello

Flak in every slot including the main guns

[glad aurora]

oh, rocket CLN still is unnerfed

oof

[wet root]

Hm? Isn't it twice as expensive per container?

Or do you mean R2 CVLN?

[glad aurora]

and SUBM cost is reverted to leave their cost unchanged from main branch with the discount removed. unless I'm misinterpreting what Lys meant here

[quiet quiver]

No only the dispenser cost was affected by warhead discount and got cheaper to match, the submunutions have their own cost system

[wet root]

Between

Increased Submunition Dispenser capacity-per-tick to 2.66 (was 1.33) and cost to 0.6666 (was 0.3333), net zero change with CM-4 warhead weight change.
and
Reverted Submunition Dispenser warhead cost to 0.33333.
isn't the cost twice as much in PTB per tick of dispenser?

[quiet quiver]

There's also half as much tick of dispenser

But more submunition per tick

Submuntion containers are still exactly as per live

[glad aurora]

huh, the new ptb apparently has, uh

no engines on missiles

that's unfortunate

[quiet quiver]

The numbers have just been rejiggered around around the HE-box changes

[wet root]

Wait, were they half as expensive as on main in PTB before this then? That wasn't my understanding

[wet root]

But I hadn't actually tested

Hold on I'm just going to check to make sure

[wet root]

That's one way to solve complaints about missile balance

[glad aurora]

All missiles must now be hucked directly out of your ship by hand gg

also: jesus christ ocellos are expensive

[wet root]

Yep

[wet root]

nvm can't actually test with the missile error lol

[glad aurora]

I can get it down to 1350 if I really skimp but jesus

shit makes me break out in hives

I could... not use auroras

softkill will save me

oh. saving fleets is broken

that's nice

[wet root]

Down to 1300. Surely hardkill will save you.

[lime jungle]

'FlakMax' is a 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser that costs 1302 points.

[wet root]

Works for me, I'm guessing it's tied to the missile issue

[glad aurora]

I have a hunch, but let's take the arming missile - yeah

it is

add arming missile to ocellos to taste

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Softkill will save me PTB26' is composed of 4 ships that cost 2998 points:

           Sour : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
          Sweet : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
           Cash : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [Rocket EWar PD]
The Adept Pains : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [Rocket Sensor]

[wet root]

You should be able to triple drive those, the flakmax one I built can fit on an Interruptor and not even go over 100% and it's using double Sundrives

(Which provide 0 power, unlike Whips)

I lie, not 0, but 200kW

[glad aurora]

ah, might've forgotten to swap the drives through after taking the auroras off

[wet root]

Pricier though ofc

If nothing else you could save some points by going to a Boosted and losing both micros

[glad aurora]

I really wish that I could masquerade ships on OSP

This is the perfect time to be able to say I AM A GOALIE LINESHIP

[wet root]

I do genuinely think a slightly-more-sensible Sunsunraider 250mm Ocello has a place though, you're about as fast as a WhipX Vaux but can also work with your team

Assuming the 250mm Flak is actually useful, ofc

[glad aurora]

the main problem with sunsunraider is that you have zero nose authority, which is a real issue on the ocellos

[wet root]

It teaches you to pre-heading well! Because you die if you don't

IIRC they also actually do major turns faster than Whip Ocellos, they're just sluggish to start turning

[glad aurora]

I think this will work, but whether it's useful over doing the same thing with two 250LNs and getting an extra ruttle out of it remains to be seen and depends pretty much entirely on the flak quality

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Softkill will save me PTB26' is composed of 4 ships that cost 2998 points:

  Sour : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
 Sweet : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
  Cash : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [Rocket EWar PD]
Credit : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [Rocket Sensor]

[glad aurora]

on the bright side you do just straight-up win vs. the goalie vauxhall, it can't do anything to you and it probably can't even run away very well since you can see through the jamming

on the not so bright side you cost 250pts more

[wet root]

Other downside: EO HEKP

[glad aurora]

the EO jammer just straight-up doesn't function, I've come to learn

painfully

[wet root]

Rip :/

[glad aurora]

I have no idea why bugs like "it burns itself out on craft 8km away and will be distracted by them even over incoming missiles" have stayed for a year+ or "the cone is so narrow that incoming missiles can and will just exit it and then re-acquire when they're close to the target" is still a thing, but they are

tbh I'd want a complete rework of the dazzler to function like an aurora

does extremely little damage to non-EO missiles, knocks EO missiles inside its arc out completely on exposure / permanently disables the EO seeker if that's technically possible in the framework

and I say this as someone who runs CMD/EO vs. ocellos

[wet root]

Immediate concern there is getting stuck on decoys, but that's solvable ofc

[mint sinew]

Does PDT DEDI contain the dazzler? I thought the issue was that it was programmed as a DP turret and not an offensive tool like the rest of the jammers

[wet root]

That would prevent it from autotasking on missiles though

Although that's a good point, did the PTB change of having PD prioritize missiles over craft help with the targeting on the Dazzler?

[mint sinew]

That's true of them other jammers too. Just a dazzler work that it tries to

[wet root]

Yeah, but IMO it's preferable that it does autotask on missiles, being a defensive jammer

You don't want Blankets autotasking because ARAD exists

The issue is it tasking on craft when it doesn't actually do anything there

Btw, missiles are now fixed on PTB, and Tech was correct that submunitions are the same as on main now. So I guess they had been buffed on PTB, which I hadn't realized.

[quiet quiver]

They weren't buffed, all the patches this cycle kept submunitions in the same place

They've only gotten changes to directly counteract other container nerfs

[wet root]

Ah

[glad aurora]

Lys getting ready for her party: Oh, I'm going to have a great new year!

300000 pings, simultaneous: MISSILES HAVE NO ENGINES

the dev life cycle

[quiet quiver]

It's already been fixed, at least, so presumably it was a quick one

[bitter furnace]

they were never buffed on PTB. This latest change is to keep them the same with the tainer warheads getting more expensive

previously it was halved damage, halved cost, and so SUBMN got double damage and double cost. Now the cost got doubled so SUBMN cost is halved

it's definitely a very confusing interplay of different stat lines

[junior heron]

@mint sinew gl hf

[mint sinew]

may the force be with you

[junior heron]

🖖

gg close

[mint sinew]

buff taisty

[junior heron]

I think this is the second or third time I've been really tempted to go to balcon with exactly that

[oak shell]

taisty?

[mint sinew]

taisty cookie is a player who's internet betrayed them

[junior heron]

and has pretty consistently betrayed them

including several times during the tournament I think

[mint sinew]

infamously so

[junior heron]

which may just have been divine retribution for their carrier's torpedos

[wet root]

They also play on an extremely cursed setup, IIRC

[glad aurora]

from a vague conversation I had, their setup is kind of like mine but with some kind of Mac machine

which I think says all it needs to

[mint sinew]

gg, I was playing so scared of getting autumn jumpscared the whole back half of that game

[junior heron]

gg, I was scared of getting to approximately 5.5km of an enemy and them getting to break distance

also those bombers hurt

[mint sinew]

That was my goal, especially in that dance around E at the end

[glad aurora]

Did beam PD fail you?

[junior heron]

yeah

was hanging around the really tight rocks of yukon so it makes sense

and I was tracked the whole time

[mint sinew]

Yukon, but yeah

[junior heron]

that one

[mint sinew]

I didn't want to let you out of sight

TBH, I thought you were an aggressive beamstone at first and was surprised how well you were taking 450HE

Got bit by the old test fleet problem: my cudas couldn't load their missiles and one of my liners had the aft mounts the wrong way

[junior heron]

oh hey, the max warhead remise is 0.21cm pen, while fighter with ceramic has 0.225cm armor

[edgy dove]

Or you can use foam that's 2pts cheaper and achieves the same effect of surviving an S1 hit

[junior heron]

There's a couple lobbies already kind of running on PTB from the main nebcord today, if we want to play PTB it'll likely be a bit of a traffic jam today.

[oak shell]

I won't be around

[wet root]

I'll be on in a few minutes

[wet root]

Lmao

[junior heron]

gg!
A couple of rough games, but I do appreciate playing with you all. It was fun!

[wet root]

I just realized I forgot to start my music, no wonder it was ominously silent

[quiet quiver]

Finally, a solution for clonk

[glad aurora]

holy shit

https://tenor.com/view/mercy-overwatch-come-here-gif-14280244

[wet root]

The end of a (very annoying) era

I hope we get actual numbers on the maneuver changes for craft. And whether EVADE is now using full maneuverability or if playing craft is just a micro tax still

Also curious if this will lead to shuttles getting a survivability buff/cost decrease at some point, given how long they've been balanced in the context of The Clonk

[glad aurora]

god, I hope not

ruttle rush all-in is bad enough

this tacitly is a nerf to that, along with the decoy nerf earlier

[oak shell]

What caused the clonk?

[mint sinew]

Currently unpublished, but I'll post the explanation here when I see that it is

[wet root]

(Quoth Lys)

[mint sinew]

https://bsky.app/profile/lystingdangerously.bsky.social/post/3mbnfjjgbgs2g

Lys (@lystingdangerously.bsky.social)

I have finally fixed a longstanding physics bug, "the clonk", where missiles would hit ships and do no damage. The cause was the result of multiple parts of the damage and physics systems all aligning in the worst way which made is extremely difficult to reproduce and thus fix. So, the details:

Bluesky · Jan 5, 2026, 2:32 AM

[glad aurora]

very cool

[misty storm]

what is the ptb meta looking like rn?

curious about how the changes are affecting things

[mint sinew]

Today's patch will have just messed with craft significantly so we don't really know yet

[quiet quiver]

Oh huh so that's why it happened more with hybrids and rockets

[misty storm]

Oh fair lol

[junior heron]

Skiff
Thruster Power 250
Turn Rate 30

Tanto
Thruster Power 150 --> 40
Turn Rate 60 --> 40

Sundial
Thruster Power 150 --> 50
Turn Rate 30 --> 30

Claymore
Thruster Power 250 --> 45
Turn Rate 45 --> 25

Barracuda
Thruster Power 200 --> 45
Turn Rate 80 --> 40

Pike
Thruster Power 75 --> 20
Turn Rate 60 --> 40

Sturgeon
Thruster Power 200 --> 45
Turn Rate 45 --> 25

from a comparison between branches

Loaded up previous update, grabbed stats, updated, grabbed new stats, compared

I don't actually know what Thruster Power and Turn Rate mean

but here's the numbers

[mint sinew]

If it's like ship stats then thruster power is acceleration and turn rate is the maximum angular velocity

[junior heron]

All craft JUKE maneuverability has been decreased by 85%.
All craft EVADE maneuverability has been decreased by 90%.
I assume this would apply to their Thruster Power then?

from previous ptb

[mint sinew]

I assume so, but don't know how the stats under the hood work

[junior heron]

me neither, which is why I'm not so sure how helpful the numbers actually will be

but I figure someone smarter than me could use them

[mint sinew]

Official word has the acceleration stat dropping by about 73% which matches your numbers. So that'll mean any velocity change will take about 4 times longer

[quiet quiver]

Clonk is dead! (pt 2)

[mint sinew]

Intriguing that MK65 getting DP is listed under bug fixes. I thought that was intentional because of the turn rate

[quiet quiver]

Apparently it was intentional until 250 flak was compatable, at which point it was an oversight

[mint sinew]

Makes sense

[wet root]

Huh, so this effectively also slightly reduces the speed of all accelerating munitions - rockets by about 25m/s per Lys, based on my math it's a maximum of 40m/s for a max maneuver S2H, and <10m/s for S2s.

Acceleration / (50 ticks/second) = extra speed

[glad aurora]

if I have to edit all of my flakskip s2h I will kill myself

[wet root]

I suspect flakskip will be mostly unaffected (but very slightly worse) since stage range was determined by the internal calculation of expected range, not accounting for the bonus speed

It might have fixed the bug where missiles went slightly further than their listed range though, I'll need to test

I wonder if the craft maneuver changes mean CMD missiles other than specifically-tuned S2H can pop them with HEI reliably

I bet pretty much any CMD S2H can now at least

[mint sinew]

CMD S1 could already pop bombers pre-nerf, I suspect they will be effective on ptb

[mint sinew]

I was thinking about this but didn't want to assume anything from wording on a bsky post

[glad aurora]

I got a nasty surprise from a duo of techcellos the other day full up with CMD S1s and Pavises when I was running SWMG

would've been completely ineffective vs. standoff S2 bombers but a very solid counterpick to CMD/backup S3 bombers

unfortunately for him he then ran into hybrids and then my cluster bombs, so

[mint sinew]

So, done a spot of rough testing. S1 HEI ACT ACMs look to be an option for anti bomber duties. Any individual missile has a relatively low hit rate (~40%) but if you set them to salvo size 3 at 2 points each the maths looks pretty good

[wet root]

Huh, if ACT inaccuracy isn't enough to miss, I really want to check ACT[CMD] S2H, I already have dual-purpose CMD S2H that can kill skiffs, bombers and light ships, but they're inconvenient to use against wings of craft due to needing a lock

[mint sinew]

Notably ACT inaccuracy is biting, bombers are just big enough that you can still make a decent hit rate

you aren't going to hit anything smaller at all

Did some quick testing and my intuition was right, ACT[CMD] S2H gets about the same hit rate as ACT S1

The issue isn't catching the bomber, it's gambling on the seeker inaccuracy

[wet root]

Huh, I figured at least some of those S1s were getting seduced by chaff

[mint sinew]

Some, but my sample size isn't huge

[wet root]

I do wonder if the maneuver nerfs means bomber-launched Breadsticks are back on the table

[mint sinew]

Like ACT[CMD] was hitting sturgeons ~50% over the 40% of the S1s but 2xS2H is a much worse trade than 3xS1s

[wet root]

Well, having 4-6x the range is not trivial, but yeah, probably want to stick with pure CMD and manually fire 'em

1xS2H at 10km is a pretty good rate when you're not even spending flexibility for it

[wet root]

Thinking an advanced radar skiff plus a couple standoff bombers as big zone control

Also curious about CMD HEI S1s, more reliable and versatile but costlier and requires a CMD channel

Shame the Remise can't run HEI

[noble zodiac]

and lets the cuda actually have a standout standoff edge in the A2A again

[mint sinew]

S2s are at least interactive with SSM1s (manually)

[wet root]

They'll need some tuning but it does look like Breadsticks are back on the menu

Interestingly, Big Breadsticks actually save you a point, you can get one for 6 points that hits as hard as an S2

But the range will probably be too short to be worth using after bumping the Gs up enough to be reliable

[mint sinew]

That's very interesting. An effective breadstick that you can load onto a torpvette could be worth trialling

[wet root]

I'm guessing a frag S3H is better for that use-case, especially since as I just realized increasing the Gs on a torp increases the price

Although if you pay more for it you can get a very large radius on a torp

[mint sinew]

Maybe, I just found that Frag S3H weren't economical into Cuda swarms even at the volumes R2 spam brings

[wet root]

Hmm, yeah, I can see a torp being solid into close-range swarms

Just awkward if you're getting torped by bombers from outside your ACM range

[mint sinew]

I'm mostly just looking for interesting tech tbh. While R2 cudas are the premier threat it's hard to do better than CMD frag S1 ACMs for ANS

[wet root]

Bombers running Breadsticks is the most "interesting" tech I've found so far, but they're weirdly clunky in when they actually decide to fire

5-point ACT/WAKE seem a lot more reliable than CMD for getting them to launch properly

I'm also curious if Articulated Nozzles are actually good now

[quiet quiver]

Nope, because AIUI they only lower sig size and not angle

And craft don't need a smaller wake sig, their decoys do fine if in view

[wet root]

Nozzles are the increased turn rate module

[quiet quiver]

Oh wait yeah I was thinking about shrouded

[quiet quiver]

Maybe? They're still kinda pricey

[wet root]

Yeah, but if they actually decrease the range at which DP/LRPD can hit you by 33% it could be worth it

[junior heron]

@mint sinew if you're up to voice chat I'm around

[misty storm]

Can he frag not kill bombers?

[mint sinew]

Not efficiently with S1s. Anything larger works fine, you just don't get a big enough warhead on an S1

[junior heron]

<@&942093958551588904> boat morningnightdaytime!

[glad aurora]

I'm here if/when we need a fourth, I suppose

[junior heron]

@wary flame I remembeered to give my MN the ammo, and forgot something else in return

[quiet quiver]

Tired, boring: Single drives
Overrated: Double drives
Novel, exciting: Zero drives

[wet root]

This is why I run Sensor Buoys

[mint sinew]

Lets see if the balcon speculation was on the money

[quiet quiver]

M'dab has arrived!

[wet root]

I'm glad the LRT/EWR sensitivity buffs made it in, still skeptical of MDAB specifically

VLS mines should be interesting too, though only 5 cells is a bit painful

[junior heron]

hmm

SDM-2 warhead back to .75 weight

[wet root]

Does that mean they can't pop bombers/foam fighters in one shot?

[junior heron]

bombers yes, not sure on the foam fighters

I think it puts ceramic back to being a useful module

[wet root]

If so, back to Breadsticks for bombers, not sure if you can reliably hit fighters with them with the maneuver buff

[junior heron]

loading up test now

[wet root]

If ceramic/foam lets you survive an SDM, I'm pretty sure the maneuver buff means that Spamtos/R2das are just hilariously strong now
I misread, it's bombers that got maneuver buffed

[mint sinew]

Yeah, just bombers got mobility back

[wet root]

That's definitely interesting, quite intrigued by this one

[junior heron]

I think I launched before the update happened

[glad aurora]

might as well not even call it a submunition dispenser anymore, just a rocket dispenser

but such is the suffering induced by CLN

[quiet quiver]

It also dispenses bombs

Expensive, but some players find them worth it

[junior heron]

600mm bombshell submunition when

also sturgeon carries 600mm bomb when

okay, the names being this:

is really funny

[quiet quiver]

30 cm pen, poor Vauxes

[mint sinew]

Min fuze 2s gives a min range of like 5km

[junior heron]

600mm bomb for reference

so it's basically just blast angle

and a slightly tighter fuze margin

[quiet quiver]

Well, sorta. Tighter in time but not distance

600mm bomb has a 231m fuze margin, 500mm frag has a 400m fuze margin

Blast angle is 45 deg instead of 360

Blast radius might be different but isn't listed

[junior heron]

sdm-2 max blast frag is .35 armor pen, 110 damage, so still 1-shots foam fighters

[junior heron]

I don't think vauxes were particularly threatened by 600mm bomb, were they?

[glad aurora]

smashes up all your thrusters real quickly

after that you can't retreat or dodge and die instantly to HESH

[junior heron]

huh

[quiet quiver]

Also IIRC one MD LN has more throughput than two 600 MNs

(And is roughly the same price)

[junior heron]

looks like an MDLN with 3 barrels gets to pretty much exactly 3x an MN for just slightly under 2x the cost

that's basic CIC and a single rapid
LN has 3 ereg, MN has 2 big 2 small, LN has to get 2 PCC to power that all

so LN wins out a little more because it gets to be one hull if it buys any further defenses (chaff, jammers, backpack craft)

[oak shell]

That's how they worked when first released, right?

[junior heron]

but I want to put Fluffly's philosophy of "you only really need 1 MD MN anyway" to the test in a game where I can aim my MD MN.

150 seemed to be the right amount for firing all game, btw

I think that MN was down to 30% ammo when we were at about 700 points

[mint sinew]

I think I've dropped down to 125, but that's only a point different

[mint sinew]

I suspect fragmentation blocks might sway me back to seeing value in a full MDLN. I do stand by my logic that against moderate amounts of ANS capitals MDLNs tend to saturate damage faster than you can capitalise on it

[wary flame]

I'm going to swap that ill-fortuned rail ocello in that list of mine for an MDLN

fragbomb MDLN sounds great fun

[junior heron]

unfortunately, testing its primary usecase means playing against frigblobs

[wary flame]

it was going to be an MDLN but I swapped it last second

which is why I forgot the ammo

[junior heron]

misc did you see my mass driver fuckup?

[wet root]

2km/s velocity + 2s min fuze is extremely funny

[wet root]

I think that philosophy is harder to justify with bombshell existing, gives MDs so much utility

[mint sinew]

Especially if bombshell retains effectiveness up to Vauxhalls

[wet root]

Will need testing ofc

[wet root]

AIUI they hit from ramdom angles if they're within the blast too, so you can't angle your Vauxen to protect them

[mint sinew]

Oh

I assumed it worked more like RPF

[wet root]

I suspect playing anything lighter than Axford will suck for a while while people are excited and bringing a bunch of MDs, should be a good stress-test for them

[wet root]

Bomb shells hit all ships within their blast radius (500m radius for 600mm bomb shells) with multiple fragments. These fragments are distributed randomly across the target's bounding radius. Or in other words, if you imagine a circle that perfectly fits the ship, the 10 fragments fired at that ship will be distributed randomly inside that circle.

It's not entirely clear if the angle is also randomized or not

@quiet quiver might know?

[quiet quiver]

AIUI, RPF and bomb are similar damage models, but RPF will detonate the moment it enters fuze range so it's usually from the front

While bombshell can detonate next to or behind the target

[wet root]

In that case the 45 degree cone might help out for Vauxen

[quiet quiver]

MD frag can detonate behind targets but b/c of the cone angle won't do any damage then

Yeah

[mint sinew]

I assume that circle is perpendicular to the line between the bomb and the ship. So you aren't taking fragments to the far side from the Bing

[wet root]

Will need testing to see how effective it is against Vaux armor, I suspect mostly the nose thrusters will get nibbled

[mint sinew]

It being a bounding circle also means that long thin ships like Vauxhalls also take less damage per hit as some should miss

[quiet quiver]

Oh right forgot the bounding circle effect, yeah

[oak shell]

huh

So you take the same number of fragments regardless of how close to the blast you are?

[wet root]

Yep

[oak shell]

Fucked up

[quiet quiver]

I think there are effects with the apparent size of the ship vs apparent size of the sphere at different distances, but generally yeah

[oak shell]

size of the ship vs apparent size of the sphere at different distances
That's exactly the opposite of Lark's answer, though

[mint sinew]

Only if you assume the fragments come in perpendicular to the bounding circle rather than radially from the bomb.

To use a bad sketch diagram. A bomb bursting near (red) and far (blue) will have some points that hit when near but not when far. This effect isn't massive until it's bursting right on top of you

[oak shell]

perpendicular to the bounding circle
I guess I don't know what "bounding circle" means

[wet root]

Breadsticks still seem to be quite reliable at catching bombers

[quiet quiver]

Breadsticks can probably even get away with shaving off a bit of agility for more speed/range

[misty storm]

BOMB FOR MASS DRIVERS???

[wet root]

I'm currently poking at the tunings, so far 265m/s with 3.3g gets you 8km range and I think enough maneuver

Need to check whether CMD is better at launching after the changes

From initial testing seems so

7pt CMD/ACT breadsticks seem really good

Hmm, might need a tiny bit more Gs, did see one missile miss on CMD

24 fired, 21 hits in the testing range, seems like a solid starting point

14/20 hits on the other side, mostly due to the launching bomber getting shot down and losing CMD

Hmm, needs more manuever to hit fighters

[quiet quiver]

Yeah I'd expect that, I rememebr Vren's OG design was designed for a TALS to take down 2 Claymores on approach

[glad aurora]

yep

I still use that one (my version of it, rather, which was mostly the same as Vren's), it still kills Claymores, all is right in the world

not jumping to SDMs when they became a fad meant I remain safe and secure in my glorious empire

[rigid bison]

what does lys have against mines today?

[glad aurora]

people spammed mines and ruined lobbies

lys has, as a result, been targeting minespam (especially as delivered from CLNs) to stop people griefing games

[quiet quiver]

Example from a live game last month

Some games had triple mine fleets

[glad aurora]

and OSP would always lose those games, too, because it was a dogshit idea that left their team fighting 9k vs. 12k

[wet root]

I'm pretty sure there's a tuning that makes bombers the best ASF fighter now, with the fighter maneuver nerfs

[quiet quiver]

No not always, some AN would forehead themselves into mines

[glad aurora]

either way, point I'm trying to get across is that it was a gameplay skew that griefed both sides' gameplay experience, good riddance

[glad aurora]

What's an ASF

[wet root]

Air Superiority Fighter

[quiet quiver]

Air Superiority Fighter fighter (actually a bomber)

[glad aurora]

lark have you seen a single point of investment in a2a across any of my carriers in the last 10-11 months

(I say, lightly, to be clear)

[wet root]

Probably want 3.6-3.8Gs, 3.8 seems to hit at basically perfect consistency while 3.6 occasionally misses but tends to come around and catch the fighters after a few seconds

[wet root]

Lmao fair

But also now you don't have to pay points or hangar space for a2a, just bring some spare breadsticks for your Sturgs

Just watched 2 Sturgs splash 8 coil Tantos

This seems like a very solid baseline, one-taps everything but foam bombers and haven't seen it miss yet

[lime jungle]

SGM-270 Winter Storm is a size 2 missile that costs 7 points.

[wet root]

ACT does mean enemy craft drop hico, so it might be worth going to pure CMD

And might end up losing some speed for extra range

[wary flame]

unsure why the ML9 got kicked quite that hard, CLN mines were the actual issue

honestly still mostly fine

but 10-mine traps out of one ML9 would be nice

[glad aurora]

people were bringing mineMNs to grief as well as mineCLNs

deserved shitkicking there too, unfortunately

[wary flame]

damn

might suggest 10 mines in the box and then compounding cost instead

[quiet quiver]

ML-9 already has compounding cost

Because (IIRC) of mine liners in OSP test

[wary flame]

more compounding cost, then

luckily that's a lever

[quiet quiver]

But it's definitely a buff to mine shuttles because they can either carry 10 mines now, or have an r-mag for its T20 ammo

[wary flame]

oh yeah I suppose that is neat

straight buff to the one place I'm still using manually placed mines

I still think Sprints could use a small buff but as usual for stuff I like it'll never happen because people are too angry at them

[wet root]

I can't really see 10 mines being an issue given the compounding TBH, worst case you get what, 20 per Tug and drop 200 of them?

And Muttles are fun!

[quiet quiver]

Damn, muttle sounds even more like a slur than ruttle

[wet root]

It really does ;_;

[wary flame]

isn't the team minecap 50 now?

you can hit that with 10 shuttles anyway

[quiet quiver]

Removed!

[wet root]

They removed that thankfully

[quiet quiver]

Because the mine cap was really buggy

[wary flame]

wonderful

[quiet quiver]

Yeah per the bug report, you had mine counts going past 50, mines being removed in the wrong order, and other weirdness: #416688660503724052 message

[bitter furnace]

I argued for Shattering Block and I'm kinda sad it didn't happen
but we'll see if any of these new munitions last longer than a week

[wet root]

Doing some testing in the range, nvm, MDABs are barely able to tickle Vauxen

[edgy dove]

MD bomb shell is either going to be mid or make ANS caps players (me) want to end it all

[restive monolith]

Since I feel I've been getting better at handling the many things of this game I decided to try tf birch instead of oak and the next match I tried tf ash n it was fun

Tho I made the mistake of trying to get behind the enemy n close which took a lot of time while I could've done better not doing that. I also never split up the fleet even tho I could've split them up so that I could get the beams from multiple angles

[oak shell]

You don't really need to beam from multiple angles

[restive monolith]

Oh

Well I feel it could've been useful for beaming multiple ships at the same time and not having all my ships in one spot when someone actually pointed a gun at me

But I dunno :3

[oak shell]

That's true

[restive monolith]

One of the keystones lost the beam and ran out of restores so I just used it to capture points n jam stuff after that

Also I was thinking about a fleet with like a couple keystones with railguns at long range and a sprinter or 2 that's stealthy n close range with jamming n other stuff to basically provide targeting data but I have no clue what I'm talking about.

[oak shell]

Yeah that's a fleet archetype that exists

Though 2 railstones + 2 sprinters isn't a full fleet