#Nebulous: Fleet Command

1 messages · Page 32 of 1

wary flame
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it's not like those upgrades are bad absent the nonsense technique

quiet quiver
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AFAIK it got added because people were asking for it more than Lys thinks it'd be useful

glad aurora
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that said I'm just eternally salty that you can't make missiles to kill sundials and skiffs now

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you just have to get permaspotted all the goddamn time

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I had this once with WoWS and it was bad enough there

quiet quiver
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Also I guess sorta consistency with ships being able to manually chaff

wicked mirage
glad aurora
junior heron
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or a beam

wicked mirage
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actually, it already knows xD

wet root
glad aurora
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Unless CMD has gotten dramatically better at killing evading skiffs in the last few months...

junior heron
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I guess ARAD just wants your direction

wet root
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WAKE is looking for your location history

wicked mirage
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and HEI doesn't give a hell about HC chaff either lol

wary flame
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wipe your browsing history kids, the Wake/ARAD missile is coming

wicked mirage
dark dawn
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So uhh
The Moorline starter had no changes to its craft, should CVs not bother with modules and still just print out jets by the dozens or is it worthwhile going for a smaller, more expensive compliment?

bitter furnace
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the argument from most of the carrier players was that all the current skill expression of craft boiled down to finding ways to permanently lock your opponent's craft in an automated evasion behaviour so they couldn't move or fight or respond to orders. Perhaps I should have pushed back on it more but I can see the arguments of both sides and I was busy pushing for other more important changes

wary flame
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I believe we are still abusing the 3D printer

glad aurora
wary flame
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ANS has faster cycle time, which presumably means OSP is all in on Big Wings

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especially since coilgun still rinses people

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SDM-2 spam from range was the previous going concern for OSP craft, interested to see what scram + high-coherence chaff does to that

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probably very mean things

bitter furnace
glad aurora
wicked mirage
glad aurora
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sure, but I play hybrid missile boats which don't have the ability to do that and are the worst off if the carrier just vision tortures you all game

you kind of had to have reliable non-CMD missiles so you could whack skiffs as soon as you saw them, or the jig was up and your game was basically over

dark dawn
wet root
#

I do like the craft modules, both from a gameplay perspective and also because fewer fancier craft will be nice for lower-end PCs

wary flame
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Moorline has always had a tension between its identity as "best carrier" and the default local optimum of "can't afford the good stuff on a carrier that big, so spam the cheap stuff"

bitter furnace
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yeah 😦

wet root
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I wonder if at some point Moorline will get a craft cost discount of some variety

wicked mirage
dark dawn
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I want to be good at carriers but I don't know how to

wary flame
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I've always wanted to do half craft, half container banks

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but submunitions are kind of lame now

dark dawn
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Didn't they get a buff?

wary flame
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at least they got their accidental cost nerfs reverted

wet root
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Same, a fighter escort bringing jamming and illuminators for a wing of bombers + container salvo seems extremely fancy

wary flame
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I will have to try, but I don't think "about as many craft as a Levy, also missiles" holds up nearly as well these days now Levy has way faster cycle

dark dawn
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Oh right, Levy has a huge cycle buff now

bitter furnace
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the cycle is mostly a placebo tbh, it still gets affected by diminishing returns so it's essentially just a free DGL

wary flame
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I did not realise that

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never mind then

wet root
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Oh, interesting

wary flame
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I will see what I can cook up

dark dawn
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Ah, so just a 30 point cost decrease(ish) and a module slot?

wary flame
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I am slightly disappointed with submunitions honestly

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there was such a massive burst of excitement when they first showed up in testing but all the juice has steadily been pared out of them for balance reasons and now they're almost entirely just rocket boxes again

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still, the multirole moorline is pretty

wet root
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It's a bit odd to me that there's not a minelaying option for OSP bombers

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Since AFAIK the overlap with submunition boxes is everything except that

wary flame
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(testing subMs were cracked, don't get me wrong, but they used to have enough different options to allow some actual creativity)

wet root
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I should test submunition mine boxes with the new spread options, see if you can spray them into a corner

dark dawn
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Man
This game is way too easy to optimise the fun out of

wicked mirage
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Hey hey, come on there's so much you can do as a player

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Let's not doompost when a patch just came out, the new modules on craft are really awesome!

wet root
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Personally I enjoy optimizing fleets, and the new module options only make it better

dark dawn
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Got it, I'll see if I can fiddle with things tomorrow morning
My main issue is that if I make something sub-optimal, I end up bringing down my teammates and that's just sad.

bitter furnace
mint sinew
supple sonnetBOT
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how's the state of things, anyhow? it's been forever since we last poked our head in this game and we've been thinking about it a bit off and on recently

wicked mirage
mint sinew
wet root
wet root
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(They could do the Starcraft thing of having different units in the campaign vs the multiplayer, but then new mechanics and ships wouldn't get to show up in the campaign)

bitter furnace
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Yeah that’s very fair

wet root
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Except maybe Analysis Annexes. They could maybe use a buff.

quiet quiver
wet root
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Okay but there should totally be a Secret Raines-only Level in the final campaign

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Both sides slamming RPF down jamming cones

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It's a shame the game doesn't support more than two teams, 1v1v1v1 All Raines Deathmatch would be a silly gamemode to do a match of

topaz jolt
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Gosh. I'm glad I've never tried carriers.
Playing with craft with 0-10 fps with them and having movement controls locking up would be sooo awful when playing with craft.

Yes, I play with my controls locking up when there's too much happening at once. Which is why it normally takes me so long to respond to anything.

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Intel Centre and Analysis Annexes in general needs a buff.

wet root
mental tusk
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For those who want to test the patches you can come do PvP along with some modded stuff in my NebFleet Fight Club lobby

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My bad, I meant lobby ❤️

junior heron
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the patch is still missing the most important thing:
Nebulous needs to predict the future so that Set Flight Quarters can hit its music swell right as you drop bombs on an injured capital ship
I'll settle for "Blockade Established" starts playing when the game is coming down to a score finish
(The trailer musics are really good and on my mind a lot.)

midnight hearth
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Wrong channel matey

velvet tiger
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nebulous fleet command divers

ivory juniper
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If there is still space ill be there in 20

exotic oyster
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wrong thread bratan

eager cedar
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oops lmao

ivory juniper
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Ope damn

warm pelican
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GRUH

pseudo wharf
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damn the new Nebby update goes crazy

warm pelican
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AAUUUUUGH

midnight hearth
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Nebdivers

pseudo wharf
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we have dropshock troopers now?

warm pelican
sharp crow
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🤔

supple sonnetBOT
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anyone have a decent anti-craft, ship-based sdm-2 for the alliance sitting around?

lime jungleBOT
quiet quiver
supple sonnetBOT
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ah, decent, ty

quiet quiver
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But if you want to make a Naginata from scratch, it's max-speed boost stage, maximum warhead size, and main stage engine is min-burn 180 m/s speed

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Seekers either CMD or Act/Wake

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("Naginata" being the popular name for this design, which is by far the most popular SDM-2 design)

supple sonnetBOT
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also: is comms jamming any good against craft?

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tbh trying to get back into this game has resulted in a lot of "old man yells at cloud" but with me vs craft

junior heron
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it'll probably beat their antenna for a CMD strike, dunno about actually isolating them from the team comms

supple sonnetBOT
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damn, we hoped it made it so you couldn't give them orders

junior heron
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nah, they're still units you control

simple drum
glad aurora
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ARAD/ACT remains my GOAT

supple sonnetBOT
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arad/act for naginatas?

junior heron
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act/wake i think

wet root
junior heron
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though CMD is becoming popular to avoid high coherency chaff

glad aurora
wet root
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(Though as Tom has demonstrated, Beams are also quite effective air defense)

supple sonnetBOT
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ah, that makes more sense

Ash And Gold ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) no, for bomber torps

glad aurora
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nagis have pretty much always been act/wake, cmd, or cmd/wake

supple sonnetBOT
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we've tried that before with a couple of 35mm skiffs, but tantos seem interesting

Lark ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) If you have the points and are worried about craft strikes, you could consider a backpack hangar wit…

glad aurora
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the difference between them depends on evasion behavior and hell if I've been keeping track of that since testing ended

wet root
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Tantos might be more effective, 35mms are pretty mediocre without access to the OSP ammo whose name I don't recall

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Or, were at one point, I haven't kept up-to-date enough with the patches to know if that's still true

junior heron
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flechette

wet root
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(Tantos get sandshot which is terrifyingly effective)

junior heron
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I think 35mm slug has armor pen to get through ceramic bomber

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but that's the one niche case

wet root
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Oh interesting

supple sonnetBOT
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thinking of, we poked around with craft a bit, if we did use craft, how often should we opt for those little sub-modules of theirs? the options all seem interesting, but we're wondering if it's better to keep them all stock and just use more, or if the options are worth the cost

glad aurora
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depends on faction and intent

junior heron
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high coherency chaff is real good

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beyond that, HP up is sometimes nice

wet root
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IMO if you're just using backpack hangar it's worth splurging on better countermeasures and more HP, if you've only got 2-4 craft the cost isn't that much and losing one really degrades your capabilities

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If you're bringing a Levy with 48 Tantos the math changes

rigid bison
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are backpacks sdms a viable defense?

glad aurora
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yeah

junior heron
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ah, new patch

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time to dump everything in a "pre modular craft" folder and start some new fleets

wet root
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New patch, time to fly the same two Ocellos for the 82nd time

supple sonnetBOT
lime jungleBOT
#

Fleet 'Vauxhill Support ACT-INTELINT' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

        The Lovers : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun PD]
         Judgement : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Sensor PD Missile EWar]
     Nine of Wands : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun Sensor PD]
Three of Pentacles : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun Sensor PD]
       Mango Briny : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Sensor PD]
```This fleet uses 4 different missile types:
```yaml
        SDM-294 Stern Rebuke : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE FRAG [4pts]
       SGM-13 Seppuku By Cop : DIRECT - HOJ(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
SGM-166 No Thank You, Please : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
      SGM-212 Freak Accident : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR)/ARAD(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [8pts]
Vauxhill_Support_ACT-INTELINT.png
lime jungleBOT
# supple sonnet

Fleet 'Vauxhill Support ACT-INTELINT' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

        The Lovers : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun PD]
         Judgement : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Sensor PD Missile EWar]
     Nine of Wands : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun Sensor PD]
Three of Pentacles : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun Sensor PD]
       Mango Briny : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Sensor PD]
```This fleet uses 4 different missile types:
```yaml
        SDM-294 Stern Rebuke : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE FRAG [4pts]
       SGM-13 Seppuku By Cop : DIRECT - HOJ(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
SGM-166 No Thank You, Please : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
      SGM-212 Freak Accident : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR)/ARAD(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [8pts]
Vauxhill_Support_ACT-INTELINT.png
glad aurora
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(keep in mind not to pk when doing fleet files or hazel will doublepost)

supple sonnetBOT
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godsawful idea, but: pd and intel/elint support fleet

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right, sorry

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Annoyingly, it's considered 'improper' for bots to directly respond to other bots, I believe.

glad aurora
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not terrible, honestly, other than that I'd rip out the sprinters and make a constellation of rail DDs

wet root
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The radar sniffer device 😌

glad aurora
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also no dragonfly for vauxhall, raider first, then whip

wet root
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Though personally I would probably go with a side-mounted ELINT and a beam (even unbuffed) on the spinal, since having a random unbuffed beam around can really help mop up points in the lategame

supple sonnetBOT
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game plan is to stamp the vauxhill next to an allied fleet to do pd support, and run the judgement and sprinters around to do anti-scout or light duty stuff. suicide shuttle for more elint and suicide shuttle

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that's,,,, not a bad idea? although we aren't sure what we'd rather give up on it

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probably the s1s, but that's still not great

wet root
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Always a pain to scrounge for points

supple sonnetBOT
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oh lmao no, we kinda stuffed this one with everything

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we can scrape up some points

glad aurora
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you want at least one fpa

wet root
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I would probably drop one of the defenders, between the SDMs and AMMs I feel like you're not too worried about missiles? Especially with how far back it can sit with triple ARR Spyglass

glad aurora
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but one fpa beam is enough to kill shuttles lategame

wet root
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I would recommend swapping one of the gyros on the Vaux for another ammo elevator, 3x AE is a lot scarier than 2x AE and all your guns and PD have a pretty good turn rate naturally

supple sonnetBOT
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we'd rather run without, tbh, we chose that hull because it let us do triple arr tc spyglass

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although we could maybe lose the tc

wet root
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Oh, yeah, I'm not sure how much the TC does for you - I don't think single-TC Spyglass is enough to hit much of anything with, and you have a Bullseye for if they're closer

glad aurora
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presumably you're not firing on anything on the spyglass track itself, aye

supple sonnetBOT
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hmm, fair

wet root
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(Especially since the ARRs have penalties to track quality)

noble zodiac
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yeah you need about 4 TCs on a spyglass to hit anything with it

supple sonnetBOT
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yea, we just took the track correlator to cancel out the penalties

noble zodiac
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now on the flipside when you do put 4 TCs on a spyglass its kinda giga because you can shoot things from spyglass range

supple sonnetBOT
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Oh hi Gamma.

noble zodiac
noble zodiac
supple sonnetBOT
#

How's yous and Wren?

supple sonnetBOT
#

shuffled a few things around

radiant sable
lime jungleBOT
# radiant sable

Fleet 'Vauxhill Support ACT-INTELINT' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

        The Lovers : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun PD]
         Judgement : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Beam PD Sensor Missile EWar]
     Nine of Wands : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun Sensor PD]
Three of Pentacles : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun Sensor PD]
       Mango Briny : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Sensor PD]
```This fleet uses 4 different missile types:
```yaml
        SDM-294 Stern Rebuke : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE FRAG [4pts]
       SGM-13 Seppuku By Cop : DIRECT - HOJ(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
SGM-166 No Thank You, Please : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
      SGM-212 Freak Accident : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR)/ARAD(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [8pts]
Vauxhill_Support_ACT-INTELINT.png
supple sonnetBOT
#

actually, scratch that, we're replacing one of those analysis indexes with another pcc just so we can run the radar, the bullseye, and the beam all at the same time

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although,,,, looking at the numbers again. would the beam ever benefit from the fpa, given that it can't be powered while firing?

image.png
glad aurora
#

ah
no, it wouldn't unless you toggled other things off

supple sonnetBOT
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hmm

glad aurora
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(read: toggle pinard off and don't use the Spotlight)

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(that's enough)

supple sonnetBOT
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well, no, it's only producing ~7400kw, and it's using at least 7300 of that when the macrowave is firing, unless you're turning the search radar off

glad aurora
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ah, I see

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it'll automatically turn off the ARRs before the FPA if you're out of power

astral pumice
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oh huh new update

glad aurora
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the power tab is organized by hierarchy

supple sonnetBOT
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ash, no, we're using 7300 out of 7400kw that this ship is capable of producing while firing. we can't run an 800kw fpa with 100kw of power

Ash And Gold ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) it'll automatically turn off the ARRs before the FPA if you're out of power

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*unless you turn the radar off

glad aurora
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oh, I was reading the statline wrong.

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yep.

wet root
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There is a trick you can do with Beamstones where you can lock them then turn off the search radar, but it's rather a pain

olive blade
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I tend to do it

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its the only way to get 3fpa sensibly

sharp crow
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yeah that's what I did when I ran beams

sharp crow
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I'm unfortunately a bit ill so not sure I'll make it to boats today

mental tusk
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Would y’all be interested in an Operation: Burning Lance corvette jousting event with only torpedo launchers, 300pts, no PD, and 3300 max range torps? :p

olive blade
#

I'm sure you will find some takers but I'm personally not big on mods

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I should be around this week

radiant sable
lime jungleBOT
# radiant sable update: judgement is more judgmental at cost of one arr

Fleet 'Vauxhill Support ACT-ELINTEL' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

        The Lovers : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun PD]
         Judgement : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Beam PD Sensor Missile EWar]
     Nine of Wands : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun Sensor PD]
Three of Pentacles : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun Sensor PD]
     Ten of Swords : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Sensor PD]
```This fleet uses 4 different missile types:
```yaml
        SDM-294 Stern Rebuke : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE FRAG [4pts]
       SGM-13 Seppuku By Cop : DIRECT - HOJ(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
SGM-166 No Thank You, Please : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
      SGM-212 Freak Accident : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR)/ARAD(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [8pts]
Vauxhill_Support_ACT-ELINTEL.png
supple sonnetBOT
#

sorry for ping, but: how do you build your rail dds? we've been trying to piece something together, but we're running out of points and we only managed to fit in two of them 😓

Ash And Gold ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) not terrible, honestly, other than that I'd rip out the sprinters and make a constellation of rail D…

#

and that's without elint, even,,,, 😔

radiant sable
lime jungleBOT
# radiant sable ,,, okay, a bit slapdash, but:

Fleet '2' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

      The Lovers : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun PD]
       Judgement : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Beam PD Sensor Missile EWar]
Magma of Eolanda : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
  The Joint Sore : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
        SDM-294 Stern Rebuke : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE FRAG [4pts]
SGM-166 No Thank You, Please : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
      SGM-212 Freak Accident : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR)/ARAD(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [8pts]
2.png
supple sonnetBOT
#

the problem is that judgement doesn't provide good enough tracks for the rails to fire on, and the rails don't have elint to get crossfixes

sharp crow
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the rail dds could use a rapid just to have some dc on board but otherwise they look fine

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the missile/beam dd feels a bit like the odd one out in this fleet

supple sonnetBOT
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that's,,,, fair

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it's probably been iterated too much at this point, but it's not really meant to use the beam at all except for emergencies

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,,,,,,,,,,, i think we're gonna keep with the sprinters, tbh

sharp crow
#

I was riffing off something similar the other day but yeah with a pair of lockvettes

lime jungleBOT
# sharp crow

Fleet 'ANS - Axford + Rails & Locks' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

     Emmanuel Micron : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun EWar PD Sensor]
      Stale Baguette : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
 Forgotten Croissant : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
Jupiterian Foresight : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Sensor PD EWar]
      Pierre Hon Hon : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Sensor PD EWar]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-100 Complimentary Trog : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
    SGM-100 Lys DMed Me So : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
      SGM-112 Aegis RH-2 C : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [5pts]
ANS_-_Axford__Rails__Locks.png
sharp crow
#

missile names not mine but from the person I stole from. don't look at me.

supple sonnetBOT
#

yea, no, the missile dd + gunvettes were meant to be scouts with antiscout capability, hence why the s2s are sah/arad

LT Hazel ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) Fleet 'Vauxhill Support ACT-ELINTEL' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

        T… 📎
#

tbh missile names are fun to mess around with

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we really like seppuku by cop 😌

oak shell
#

Surely that should be seppuku by mallcop

oak shell
#

<@&942093958551588904> boat night time!

bitter furnace
#

B O A T

mint sinew
#

S H I P

oak shell
#

@glad aurora joining vc?

bitter furnace
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tell Lark which maps should be yeeted

image.png
oak shell
#

Is the Perditio map working yet?

wet root
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I think it's updated, not certain though

oak shell
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@quiet quiver it was you who was having trouble with it, right?

quiet quiver
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I think it might've been Aneta?

wet root
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@olive blade @oak shell @mint sinew mind hopping to Game 2 Team 1?

wicked mirage
junior heron
wet root
#

I'm glad you know me well enough not to request removal of Barbie Dream House or Pagoda

olive blade
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The first map we played

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I did get craft stuck in the big rock

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I dunno if that is a map issue or not

bitter furnace
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craft getting stuck is usually a map-specific issue yeah, for maps that haven't updated their navmeshes post-carrier-update

mint sinew
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I think it is, I had a flight trapped for most of the match

oak shell
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That was Broken Bloodline

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I will also request removing all the Broken maps

olive blade
#

they are broken it seems

wet root
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Because of map reasons or craft reasons? Because I think basically all modded map have craft pathing issues, I've seen them stuck on Aorta for example

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It'd probably be easier to find a list of maps that specifically work with craft than remove all the ones that don't

oak shell
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Broken Bloodline was fine, but the other broken maps are not good design, IMO

wet root
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(I think I've had them get stuck on Honeycomb's plates as well)

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Maybe leave in Broken Bloodline and remove the rest then?

oak shell
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agreed

wet root
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Btw, something that I noted during Boat Night: Sensor Buoys got a significant buff with the EWR cost reduction, they're now only 110 points apiece

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220 points to get EWR coverage of most of the battlefield is pretty efficient

junior heron
#

lol

olive blade
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yeah

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on that note

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@wicked mirage when you have a moment could you chuck me that missile frig?

wicked mirage
lime jungleBOT
# wicked mirage This is the fleet that has it <:RubyCheer:631889961163161612> the frigate has El...

Fleet 'Thorns (S2H+Cap)' is composed of 6 ships that cost 3000 points:

Bundle of Thorns : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Beam PD Gun Sensor EWar]
      Glass Rose : 'Raines' class Frigate [Missile PD Sensor]
     Brave Petal : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
   Wilting Petal : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
 Blackened Petal : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
     Young Tepal : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 9 different missile types:
```yaml
             SDM-201 Violet Petal : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE FRAG [5pts]
             SGM-100 Celica Thorn : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [7pts]
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
                      SGM-106 Dia : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]
                     SGM-107 Cure : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [6pts]
                 SGM-13 Esuna v.B : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [5pts]
      SGM-H-221 Rose Quartz Shard : CRUISE - ARAD(RADAR)/ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [15pts]
        SGM-H-222 Turquoise Shard : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/[PSV(EO)] - HE SHAPED [19pts]
             SGM-H-3-0 Void Thorn : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [19pts]
Thorns_S2HCap.png
olive blade
#

cheers

mental tusk
#

Anyone who’s playing around 4 EST today can come join the NebFleet Fight Club for some PvP, using vanilla and modded factions in a new player environment ❤️

sharp crow
#

sad I missed boat night this time around 😔

#

but glad that the map list is becoming smaller.

junior heron
#

I'm sitting in ERI 8 if anyone else wants to die to this stack

sharp crow
#

my voice is shot so I don't think neb is a good idea for me

junior heron
#

oh dang, take care!

sharp crow
#

I could mechabellum because that requires less teamwork. but otherwise enjoy your stack adventure

mental tusk
#

Come join the NFC for our weekly Sunday modded fight night! see you in the ring! New player friendly!
(3000pts, no faction team restriction)

image.png
supple sonnetBOT
#

okay, so: is there any action or set of actions, equipment or set of equipment, hull or set of hulls, that ans can use to successfully counter osp swarm tactics to, like, any degree whatsoever

#

we got into a game yesterday and our entire team just got flattened by barracudas and shuttles within about 5 minutes

#

like. we want to like this game!!!!! it scratches our itch for a space wargame, but if this is just, like, how the game is, we don't even know what the point of trying to bother is

glad aurora
#

triple flak vaux

#

if you want to stop barracudas and shuttles, that's your fleet

supple sonnetBOT
#

fantastic

glad aurora
#

I will also warn you to some extent: the best counter to swarm tactics regardless of fleet is communication and that's Hard in pub games

oak shell
#

I do recommend coming to boat nights, rather than just pub games

wet root
#

Missiles are also quite effective against both shuttles and Cudas

#

(Though different missiles for each)

junior heron
sharp crow
#

I wish I could run something like my anti cap missile monitor on ans

glad aurora
#

that's just a raines, I think

sharp crow
#

if I could get 12 per volley missile launches and a LRT/EWR sensor combo on a raines I'd be thrilled to do it

glad aurora
#

ha, fair

#

could get pretty close on a Keystone

wet root
#

I think Spyglass Rained with ACT[CMD] hybrids is the closest equivalent

#

Or with a Bullseye and pure CMD

#

Does the same job of squishing solo ships and providing good vision

#

Hmm, I wonder if you can get a big enough warhead on an S2 to kill craft off a Spyglass CMD track

#

Could go with ACT[CMD] + terminals too, but it's possible the inaccuracy of a Spyglass track would be enough to get discount terminals

sharp crow
#

cmd s2h with a bullseye would probably work but I'm not sure you could see and lock the shuttle on time

#

the nice thing about the lrt is that you can point it at a capture zone and you will see the sprinter the moment it's on there

wet root
#

ARR Spyglass can see shuttles from pretty far out I think

olive blade
#

I mean missiles can swat them, ANS craft dogfight very well these days

olive blade
#

messed up like 3 tugs and a few cap shuttles

wet root
#

Wait, there's still no way to tell craft to automatically engage incoming missiles? wtf

wet root
#

Doing some anticraft missile testing, I'm so confused

image.png
#

Set to 1 salvo, it shot 15 missiles against 12 craft and got 13 interceptions

#

And 13 successes

#

Maybe one of the missiles splashed another missile and that got counted? But that doesn't explain why it fired 3 extra missiles

junior heron
#

what's the target?

#

wondering if some missiles are hitting but not killing, and that's prompting another salvo

wet root
#

Cudas, but that's why I had it set to 1 salvo

#

Maybe it was doing a Last Salvo? I didn't expect that would trigger on craft though

#

Huh, yep, testing it it looks like Last Salvo does activate on craft, not what I'd have guessed

wet root
wicked mirage
#

It has a Spyglass as well

wet root
#

Yeah, I've got an ARR Spyglass on mine as well

wicked mirage
#

I used Elint to Cruise strikes into on that Honeycomb game

wet root
#

Hm, so you have found the single-elint worthwhile? Good to know, might have to copy you on it then

wicked mirage
#

I usually just plot a course out to 10-11km or so since I'd probably see anything within that on the spyglass.

#

that way I don't overplot the strike and go past the target xD

wet root
#

Oh, so you use it to hunt down Bloodhounds and EWRs that are out of Spyglass range? Makes sense

wicked mirage
wet root
#

I like the idea, I'm not sure if I'm willing to deal with the angling micro lol

olive blade
wicked mirage
#

They compliment each other against some types of softkill

olive blade
#

huh makes sense

sharp crow
#

if everyone's copying stuff over, maybe we should simply do a pyrope fleet night

olive blade
#

I'm just cribbing missiles

#

a time honoured tradition

noble zodiac
wet root
#

Playing a Pyrope fleet would be super weird, I share a lot of fleetbuilding sensibilities with her but in some ways we're diametrically opposed

#

There's a reason I like to pick her brains on ship designs when I'm building something similar, but only actually import the AMM designs

#

Actually using one of her fleets I think would feel uncanny valley, it's like a fleet I designed but with durability and hardkill and fancy seekers

#

Oops All Pyrope Fleets would be a fun boat night

#

Or another Fleet Swap Night, if we could have enough people commit to join to make sure we have at least a 4v4

junior heron
wet root
#

Fleet swap, gacha-style (you get a fleet with a random value between 1k and 6k, you can pay me $5 to get another roll)

glad aurora
#

all of them are hybrid fleets of some description.

#

you're going gambling.

junior heron
#

incredibly excited to see the 1.5k battleship roll fight the 6k battleship

wet root
#

Honestly not entirely unreasonable to see the 1.5k BB win, with a tiny bit of help - I think the 6k BB would have to be a dedicated missile ship to hit that price, and the 1.5k BB could have omnisoftkill with the assistance of a single Dazzler shuttle, so there's a world where it dodges all the missiles and beams the 6k one

olive blade
#

I did enjoy the fleet swap night, I kinda prefer that personally to just doing a single persons fleets

wet root
#

Yeah, it's a lot of fun to see how other people use your fleets as well as to try using someone else's fleets

glad aurora
#

Solve My Riddles Three (correct mixed salvos)

wet root
#

Inverting the names of the weapon groups on my lineships so if I play against them they try to use the wrong side

wicked mirage
#

I'd open up my whole bank of fleets for people, and get them all updated for the new patch!

#

It'd be a lot of work but I'd absolutely love to do that RubyCheer

wicked mirage
sharp crow
#

compromise: a swap night but you choose between one pyrope fleet and one normal fleet

olive blade
#

lol

wicked mirage
noble zodiac
#

if only i didnt have LANCER at the EXACT TIME OF BOAT NIGHT 3:

noble zodiac
# wicked mirage Sounds like fun xD

only 20 minutes ago
grabs u in my jaws by the scruff of your neck like a cat and gently beans you into a neb lobby (if u want to play rn) (itd be neat to get in some more games now im gold and i do better w friends) (if not its fine dw)

wicked mirage
noble zodiac
#

GO SLEEP GIRL

#

grabs u in my jaws by the scruff of your neck like a cat and gently beans you into bed

mental tusk
#

Hey there! Cage Fighters ! Today's event is some PvP or PvAI on your favorite maps! Come on down and test your mettle in the ring and improve your skills in the long haul! See you there!

image.png
low monolith
#

With waypoint guidance

#

The intent being you could make what were effectively loiter munitions

#

but I wasn't confident enough in my game knowledge to set them up nor test them

mint sinew
#

Craft have functionally absorbed the role of loitering munitions. Existing missiles can't do that as their seekers are off during the cruise stage

low monolith
#

😔

#

It was worth a try

mint sinew
#

A squadron of craft prepositioned to intercept incoming strikes is something you can definitely do

wet root
mint sinew
wet root
#

...huh, does HoJ[EO] ignore killjoys, I wonder

#

It should, if it's set to ignore small targets

#

EACT/HoJ[EO] rocket submunitions might actually be a pretty nasty anti-light box

#

Though actually submunitions don't really work with HoJ, do they

mint sinew
#

If containers were allowed EO

wet root
#

Oh right :P

mint sinew
wet root
#

And before that there was a time when rocket containers didn't care about jamming

wet root
#

This will make pubs infinitely worse

noble zodiac
noble zodiac
wet root
#

But... you could have decoytainer+s2 liner with an Ocello support... it would do the same thing but better...

wicked mirage
lime jungleBOT
wicked mirage
#

The ARAD stages immediately and the missile sprints for literally 10km aka maximum jamming range at them, and even if they reactively EMCON and Chaff they still get hit unless they also have a Warbler going.

#

"Oh no I'm being jammed out by the Pentabrick whatever shall I do?"

#

The warhead is tiny, but it still slaps as hard as an S2 with a size 5 Warhead. Enough to break the thrusters off the face of a Monitor and put its casemate gun to orange or red, and if several of them hit the damage adds up quick and important stuff starts getting greyed.

#

Which while not as great as gutting MN's with a single HEKP it's still a tangible improvement upon "I am jammed out and cannot shoot my target".

#

All you need for this is a burnthrough track

#

Oh, and this setup is also 3 points cheaper than a single EO seeker xD

#

Ah, more to the point if we're talking OSP and wanting a Container that goes drifting across the aether looking for trouble take this RubyCheer

📎 CM-4-4_Hylia.missile
lime jungleBOT
wicked mirage
#

This does the funny FACT/EACT thing that homes in on tracks from 5km out and then blasts the closest thing regardless of signature size.

#

The warhead is full of piranha rockets, to clarify

quiet quiver
#

FACT/EACT is great

wary flame
#

A classic, I need to build a shiny new multirole moorline using those and the new modular fighters

noble zodiac
#

also

#

@wicked mirage grabs u in my jaws by the scruff of your neck like a cat and gently beans you into specifically ERI 5 (like yesterday) (if u want)

wicked mirage
#

omw

noble zodiac
#

YAYY

wet root
#

Surprisingly affordable too

wet root
wicked mirage
junior heron
#

<@&942093958551588904> Boat Night!

#

dang, 1 second early

olive blade
#

I'll be around in 5

wicked mirage
sharp crow
#

I played very poorly today

#

feels rusty

wicked mirage
junior heron
#

it's been like 2 boat nights I think

#

but also, same

#

and also I feel like beam BB isn't in a great spot

olive blade
#

its a tough game and its been changing fast

#

hard to keep up I feel

glad aurora
#

beam BB, torpcello, and direct hybrid boat are all fucked by the same change tbh

sharp crow
#

it is just rust, playing once every week/two weeks means I'm simply not playing as well as I could

olive blade
#

yeah

wet root
#

Yeah, there's a reason I play my Ocellos so much, I just don't really play enough to get practice with other fleets

olive blade
#

I think in the current craft era

#

ambush ships are just a lot weaker

#

its a lot less work to have a lot of vision everywhere

wet root
#

I think craft also make people play more cautiously around rocks

glad aurora
olive blade
#

you definitely can kill it

#

you just have to work and there is a lot more to kill

#

so expecting to just passively wait somewhere for stuff to come is not really gonna work out

#

you have to go out and kill the vision, and that is not a job well suited to expensive hiding ships

glad aurora
#

no, as in the most recent change has made the missiles you brought to kill those things no longer function at a basic level

so you beg your carrier to fly a bunch of fighters around for you or it's over

if you're a beam BB you can carry tantos yourself but then that's giving up any SDMs/breadsticks against conventional craft

olive blade
#

you can definitely kill them with missiles

wet root
#

I think High-Coherence Chaff is the issue Ash And Gold is bringing up

glad aurora
#

yep

HC chaff for command, emcon for everything else

olive blade
#

yeah I guess you probably need an EO one then

wet root
#

Still pops to HC Chaff

olive blade
#

really?

wet root
#

I think EO HEI works though

#

AIUI HC Chaff pops any frag/EL frag

olive blade
#

right yeah it has that weird miss chance thing

glad aurora
#

yeah, EO HEI is the one working anti-skiff missile

#

notably, entirely inaccessible to OSP, so gg torpcello

wet root
#

Since the actual detonation on frag/EL frag doesn't use the seeker, just proximity, and HC chaff counts for proximity

glad aurora
#

also if the skiff has 35mm flechette and is on EVADE you lose anyway

#

genuinely just a set of changes that make ambush ships as an entire category no longer function

olive blade
#

you can probably just throw a few basic radar ones and one will win the roll

wet root
#

Or just run them out of countermeasures, I don't recall how many uses HC chaff gets but it's not many

#

But yeah, I'm not a fan of HC chaff from a design perspective

glad aurora
#

notably, beam BBs tend to be very expensive and the direct missile boats on OSP and ANS spend 99.9% of their points on payload - every single missile one brings to kill skiffs is part of your killing power you chop off, same for the VLSes necessary to bring them

#

also S2s don't work against skiffs, only S2H

olive blade
#

I mean I think all in direct fire missile ships were like, always fragile

glad aurora
#

yes, but now it doesn't matter if they're fragile or not, ambush ships are just permaspotted for the whole game and it no longer matters what you do because there's nothing you can do about it

olive blade
#

and I don't really think people should be able to expect to be able to run these ships with all their points on payload

#

I think going all in on them is just like, not the way to go now

opal cypress
#

I should try to get into this game

#

I get hit with analysis paralysis videogames

glad aurora
wet root
wet root
glad aurora
#

the point of ambush ships is that they were all-in, devastating landmines that made you have to check every corner and be careful about your vision

now you do the daytona 500 with a skiff or sundial and you know exactly where the landmine is at all times

wet root
olive blade
#

you can still make a relatively cheap landmine tug or raines or such

wet root
glad aurora
#

cap fleet supplement, cap fleet supplement, cruise, cap fleet supplement

wet root
#

Or a missile cruiser with sufficient anticraft

olive blade
#

or just one with a decent offset covering it

glad aurora
#

I get what you're saying, it's just that I do genuinely feel that an entire fleet category has been made irrelevant by these changes, and I find it very frustrating since that's what I loved playing.

olive blade
#

thats fair but its unfortunately a thing that happens a bit in this game

glad aurora
# olive blade or just one with a decent offset covering it

Offsets don't really work against skiffs for ????? reasons, not least because the strobe points out the general direction you are (and for direct missile boats, you need those jammers to shine on the thing you're attacking, which means the skiff spots you - and your missiles, usually rendering the entire affair moot - again)

wet root
#

I do think Gale fleets still have legs but that's because they can very easily bring a million anticraft missiles

olive blade
#

I really enjoyed hunting BBs with spearfish groups, thats really hard now, I really liked gale based saturation fleets for OSP, I know people that loved the old rail bb

opal cypress
wet root
#

Fair, fleetbuilding is a ton of fun

#

But also 95% decision paralysis

opal cypress
#

yeah

#

The carrier stuff is super cool

olive blade
#

I quite liked frig blobs

#

just a lotta things that kinda come and go

glad aurora
#

Frigblobs still kind of work actually

#

they're just funky

wet root
#

I struggle to justify frigblobs over Vauxen right now

#

Except for missiles

olive blade
#

they definitely lost a lot of their mojo

#

you lose so much so fast with bulkers being what they are now

#

and with the offset vision that exists

wet root
#

It is nice that they can fit a Spyglass though

#

Hmm, I need to bump up the maneuver on my cork S2s, they can only reliably pen a defender Sprinter from some angles

olive blade
#

do they need cork rather than just weave for that?

wet root
#

IIRC they're slow enough they die to the incremental damage from weaving through the 20mm stream

glad aurora
#

yeah, defender sprinters actually have really good arcs because of how small they are

wet root
#

Yep, and sometimes the defender is offset just far enough it can get angle shots in in the last 25m

#

Which I've found is a lot more reliable at killing missiles than a defender right under the impact point

#

Because of rotation speed

opal cypress
#

Oh sick container bank hangers

#

Thats sick

wet root
#

I adore the design of the Moorline

olive blade
#

yeah its fantastic

wet root
#

After some testing, going from 4.7g to 5.0g loses me 1km of range but significantly improves my ability to break a Sprinter's PD on these S2s

glad aurora
#

What're you designing them for? On a tug, all you need is 6.5km range

wet root
#

Goes from ~70% pen rate at good angles, ~10% at bad ones to ~90% and ~60%, respectively

#

They were 7k, since they lose some range to the cork

quiet quiver
glad aurora
#

Ah, I see

wet root
#

And also since it's nice to be able to fire them a couple seconds before you get in Pinpoint range

#

Now they're 6k, which is a bit painfully short, but worth it to kill Sprinters

quiet quiver
#

And even EWR is enough to just pos-fire bombshell

wet root
#

I do wonder if bombshells still need to exist

#

I feel like craft would make frigblobs still pretty risky, and MNs can afford to bring secondary 100mms to kill lone small things

quiet quiver
#

Per players that still play frigblob, they feel w/o MNs on enemy team they get to run rushshod a lot of the time

olive blade
#

yeah bombshells is another one

quiet quiver
#

Frigblob can point a lot of 120 RPF at craft wings

wet root
#

I suppose frigblobs do get to bring Secret Technique: One Hundred Thousand RPF and S2s Decimate the Skies

quiet quiver
#

More anti-craft DPS than trivaux does

glad aurora
#

frigblob is why 120rpf can't be as good as 100flak

quiet quiver
#

I have the hot take that it should be good

glad aurora
#

🤝

olive blade
#

I guess in many respects like mn blob is scary

wet root
lime jungleBOT
olive blade
#

but I'd also be super scared of like, ever getting caught by a liner these days

#

they probably shred a lot of your blob extremely fast

wet root
#

Considering swapping the backup seeker for an SSJ

olive blade
#

with the 100mm ones that are everywhere

wet root
#

A Hammerhead in particular I think can kill an entire frigblob without taking any damage

#

Unless they have HEKP for some reason

olive blade
#

yeah and like, its a lot harder to jam them out now

quiet quiver
#

Liners can shred frigblob but frigblob can also shred liner

#

And FF can be hidden with jammers much better than LN can

glad aurora
#

I should design a frigblob for Current Year, I think you can pretty safely use your spyglass+bullseye frig to carry two VLS-3s

wet root
#

Yeah, that's why I think Hammerheads specifically do well against them, since frigblob has nothing that can go through the nose of a liner

glad aurora
#

ayup

#

6x Givenchy Gloves should settle the matter pretty conclusively depending on pavise arcs

#

salvo size might just be the pain point

olive blade
#

I mean frig blobs are full of tradeoffs

quiet quiver
wet root
#

It's frigates, so you can always put one VLS on another frigate if you need salvo size

olive blade
#

you want sufficient 120, a s1 vls at least, enough jamming, a bullseeye, some pd, and then like

#

any missiles

#

you get a lot of slots but they get spent fast

wet root
quiet quiver
#

123 shots of 120 HE into structure to break it, hmm

wet root
#

But admittedly I haven't really played with or against them at all recently

wet root
#

I think in practice the play for a frigblob is to split into two and flank if you have the redundancy

glad aurora
#

give me ~20 minutes and then I'll hop into fleet builder

glad aurora
wet root
#

I mean TBH I think that frigblobs underutilize their inherent flexibility

quiet quiver
olive blade
#

its hard to build redundancy it hits your slots even more

wet root
#

The fact you can be a horrifying mass of 10x frigs or three groups of three and a capper and you can swap between mid-combat is significant

wet root
#

I do think my viewpoint is warped though because the frigblobs I play are all SAH blobs

olive blade
#

you do, also you are probably like 8 frigs or so these days

wet root
#

Which don't need buff modules, so they can split their utility slots around much more easily

#

(And in fact need to do so to acheive maximum salvo density)

olive blade
#

SAH is a quite different game

wet root
#

Can SALS/TALS do mixed salvos?

junior heron
#

yes

#

I think

wet root
#

A: yes, but only with hold fire micro -_-

junior heron
#

I'm like, 70% sure that it's a launched salvo

#

hmm

wet root
#

There's not the salvo planner

junior heron
#

oh

#

huh

wet root
#

But if you queue both up it programs them both

#

And fires both when you go to WCON FREE

junior heron
#

yeah, I remembered that it took Programming time

#

and just went "programming -> salvo planning"

wet root
#

It's a sensible expectation!

#

There's no reason for it not to support it, OSP already gets the salvo planner for S1s

wet root
#

I should make a butt-tanking 450/beam BB that's Masqueraded as an Axford

wet root
#

Btw @junior heron I think your issues with beam BBs are somewhat exacerbated by the fact everyone here knows you always play the Autumn

#

It rather simplifies OSP's fleet selection and deployment to know that A) there will be a beam BB that needs to be positioned around (and appropriate measures brought to kill) and B) that ANS won't have the gun assets to contest them at range

#

(That's not to say beam BBs don't need a buff, IMO they definitely do, probably in turret HP, I just think Boat Nights aren't the best data because of that)

mint sinew
#

In the last game today OSP were definitely examining the map in light of "where would the Autumn be" and deployed accordingly

#

We were wrong in the end, but the thought definitely came up.

wet root
#

We were only somewhat wrong, we were correct about the starting location, we just expected a more aggressive push from there

#

But yeah definitely less accurate than the game before that and the one on Broken Whatever last week

wet root
junior heron
#

That's fair points
the big thing for me is it feels like I just can't maneuver at all in the battleship, and that it's really really easy to get spotted. I haven't played a gun BB in a while but it feels like that's less of a problem for them for a multitude of reasons

wet root
#

They are so clunky, I'm somewhat opposed to buffing their turn/roll just because managing to hide in a blind spot is such a cool Nebulous moment

#

But TBH that is what should probably get buffed

#

That and durability on the beams because IMO you shouldn't be able to win a head-on fight within beam range, but I really don't want them getting more damage

glad aurora
lime jungleBOT
# glad aurora it works

Fleet 'The abominable horde writhes with malice' is composed of 6 ships that cost 3000 points:

   Liar and Ibis : 'Raines' class Frigate [Missile Sensor PD]
      Molar Bell : 'Raines' class Frigate [EWar Missile]
 The Ideal Kazoo : 'Raines' class Frigate [Gun EWar]
      Ashy Shame : 'Raines' class Frigate [Gun EWar]
  The Baked Wood : 'Raines' class Frigate [Gun EWar]
Glenn K. Forward : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD]
```This fleet uses 4 different missile types:
```yaml
           SGM-101 Hobgoblin : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
     SGM-2 Fish Poking Stick : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE)/CMD - HE FRAG [7pts]
SGM-H-3 Givenchy Gloves D-KP : DIRECT - CMD/HOJ(RADAR) - HEKP [49pts]
SGM-H-3 Givenchy Gloves J-KP : DIRECT - CMD/HOJ(RADAR) - HEKP [47pts]
the_abominable_horde_writhes_with_malice.png
glad aurora
#

lost because I got triple ToTed by a CLN but there's an AN Moment for you

wet root
#

Had to double-take at that first Raines' cost

#

But 600 points of missiles would do it

#

...huh

#

With 5g maneuver and cork on an S2, it has enough lateral velocity that a target on PDZNE: POINT will ignore the missile

mint sinew
wet root
#

It's pretty dumb!

#

And now I'm going to feel bad using my 5g cork S2s even though they have that maneuver so they can dodge defenders -_-

glad aurora
wet root
#

I'm always a fan of bringing at least a couple salvos of super nice missiles

#

Spending 150 points to remove a liner or an Ocello is always great

#

Personally I wouldn't bring 12 just because I know I would manage to lose my frigate after firing three and then I would cry

#

But that's very much preference

glad aurora
#

is it just me or does dbgenableenemycontrol no longer work

wet root
#

Working for me

olive blade
#

and yeah people really are just expecting it at this point

wet root
wet root
# olive blade and yeah people really are just expecting it at this point

It's one thing if OSP has to play around ANS potentially having other frontline assets or Vauxes setting up a flank, but if one fleet is known to be a beam BB and another is probably caps or caps+something, it becomes really easy to just shove forward with a 2-3 fleets of liners and Ocellos

olive blade
wet root
#

Admittedly I'm somewhat the same way with my Ocellos but I feel like it's a lot harder to play around "OSP has Ocellos" than "ANS has a beam BB"

olive blade
#

it is yeah

#

there are definitely things a person could do

wet root
#

I was just using it for missile testing

#

But it kept blowing up the bulk mag I was putting the missiles in since I had just stuck the bulk mag in compartment 1 -_-

glad aurora
#

ah, got it working

new news: making a S2H with terminals that actually HEI-impacts an evading skiff is impossible

#

if you take the terminals off it gets shot down by flechette

if you use HE-FRAG instead of HEI it dies to high-co chaff

#

if you use any seeker not EO it gets softkilled

#

fantastic

wet root
#

What's the range on 35mm flechette? You might be able to tune the stage range to do fishtail-style pseudoterminals

quiet quiver
#

35mm is same range as 20mm IIRC

olive blade
#

a lot of what decides a lot of the game is the team that gets to dominate the open space

#

like has initial superiority and pushes the other team to cover

glad aurora
#

fishtail dampens out (and relies on inherent inaccuracy of things like CMD tracks, which means HEI also misses)

wet root
#

It doesn't have to rely on inaccuracy, you can get similar behaviour by catching a track not in the exact center of the cone of a seeker

glad aurora
#

my current sentiment is "fuck it, just assume they aren't running high-coherency"

wet root
#

And the harmonic dampening basically acts as weave

#

IDK if that works reliably against skiffs though

#

Sounds like not

quiet quiver
#

Wait, wasn't there a "don't autotarget S2 ACMs" change?

#

Are you testing this with manual target, or do skiffs ignore that?

wet root
#

Craft sometimes autotarget incoming ACMs and I have no idea what determines when they do or don't

#

But also designing around your opponent misplaying isn't a solution to not being able to remove skiffs

wet root
#

Caps being a good example

glad aurora
#

whenever I test missiles, I play like I'm on the receiving end

quiet quiver
#

So with manual target?

wet root
#

In theory a beam BB contributes by being an unknown until it removes a ship and holds that area of the map for the rest of the match but it's a lot easier to play around that when you know it's lurking around somewhere

olive blade
#

even in games without the beam bb or whatever

glad aurora
# wet root Sounds like not

Doesn't with HEI, since direct impact is so hard to get that you want it to terminal or wiggle as little as possible

wet root
#

I think there is some correlation-causation interference there to be wary of - when one team is winning they can take control of a lot of space - but yeah I agree

glad aurora
#

that said it seems like off-angle shots fuck with high-co enough that you can bonk the skiff from the side arc with proxy

olive blade
wet root
#

I still need to test to see if a frag container with a jammer on it can get close enough that when it pops on HC chaff it splashes the skiff too

wet root
#

And also fleets are encouraged to play away from rocks they can get jumped by bombers from

#

Also missiles feel like they're currently underutilized because everyone wants to play with craft, and they're another thing that can classically punish ships that hang out too much in the middle of the sky

olive blade
#

I think in practice thats a bit harder to do these days

wet root
#

Just a lot of factors that play into it, IMO

#

Missiles? Yeah, lots of indirect nerfs to them courtesy of craft

olive blade
#

yeah and I think broadly a lot of them have been slowly nerfed a bit, and the defenses buffed overall as well

wet root
#

Give me my 3-point Gales back 😭

#

Oh, right, @junior heron and @wicked mirage these are the variant of my Ocellos I was using today, so you can create horrible missiles designed to kill specifically me 😭

📎 Deaf_to_All_but_the_Song_WIP2.fleet
lime jungleBOT
wet root
#

(I frequently do minor tweaking, like the T20s I'm testing, but the general setup tends to stay vaguely in this ballpark)

#

They're thoroughbred artillery duelers, when I'm playing them well they're the uncontested queens of the empty void, but if anything can get on the flank or within 6-7km I'm I lot less sanguine about my chances

#

In particular I recommend either not trying to chase them down across empty space or committing hard to it, since with SunRaiders they can maintain space very effectively - if you have a fast, tanky Axford or BB that can survive the chase it's definitely doable to pin one down against the map boundary and once they're within 5km of an ANS capital they'll fall apart, but if you're not tanky or fast enough I will just fall back, split up, and get those delicious 450mm HE flank shots

wicked mirage
#

They have some softkill for some things, and hardkill for everything else. It's a solid way to do it.

#

And they're fast and the 450's slap!

wet root
#

Huh, doing some testing, I'm pretty sure this warning message is actually just false:

image.png
#

At least for slow cork S2s they seem to go slightly further than their range as described in the missile template

#

I should compare to the same missile without terminals, it might just be that the range in the missile template is wrong

wet root
#

Okay, so Corkscrew does lose 35m of range, it's just that S2s actually go a little further than their listed range - testing one with exactly 5km range, they actually hit a target 5,112m out (5,078m with corkscrew). Some of that is from ship sizes - I was targeting against a side-on sprinter, so -20m for its width, from an MLS on the top mount of a Monitor, so approximately -30m there - but that still leaves an extra 60m over the listed range

mint sinew
#

Hot launched? I wonder if the kick out of the MLS isn't being correctly predicted

wet root
#

Nope, cold launched

#

And I was wondering the same about the initial speed on the TALS I was using before, that's why I swapped to a top-mounted MLS so it only kicks up, not forward

eternal bramble
#

the woke mob strikes again

wicked mirage
topaz jolt
#

Awww. Is my support rail/spyglass/S3H Keystone even worse now?

noble zodiac
#

now

#

... relative to when again / in re: which change ?

wet root
#

If you're concerned because of the discussion on missiles earlier, I think S3H is probably still generally fine - it's not "missiles are unusable", just "missiles are slightly worse in a few different ways"

#

And Rails are really valuable right now

wet root
#

Mrrh, why must Intel Centers cost 90 points

#

I could get a capper for that price

junior heron
#

@wary flame you still awake and around to play some pub games?

wary flame
#

Just got back from conference weekend and about to fall asleep after a lot of dragging bags around, unfortunately, but I'll be around much of this week, besides perhaps tomorrow evening

#

I expect to be back on my regular awful sleep cycle quite soon for various reasons

junior heron
#

I see
How does this time work out for you? It's when I start being around to play, hoping it's not too late for you

wary flame
#

Under normal conditions this time is excellent, I usually have a few hours before bed at that point

#

I'm just rather wiped from hiking + long train trips today

glad aurora
#

misc's sleep schedule is Considerably Shifted

wet root
#

I've been in an unusually Nebulous mood of late, so I might also be around for pubs this week

#

(Though not tonight, for I am tragically deceased)

junior heron
#

RIP

wet root
#

@glad aurora did some testing, this missile, though pricey, kills Skiffs with very high reliability - there seems to be a quite small chance for it to miss if the evasion pattern is just right, and a particularly lucky ACT or CMD EL Frag AMM can happen to intercept despite the jamming, but outside of those niche circumstances it's a quite efficient Skiff removal service

📎 SGM-H-217_Autumn_Wind.missile
lime jungleBOT
wet root
#

The most likely failure condition is just that the Skiff has CMD EL Frag AMMs and there's another ship in the vicinity to provide a track

#

(Or, I suppose, that the Skiff has HoJ AMMs)

#

I guess Hazel doesn't show it, but the reason it's so expensive is the BSSJ

quiet quiver
#

Standard SSJ not enough?

wet root
#

Long-range AMMs can pop it before the SSJ can jam out the Skiff

junior heron
#

to fight jamming craft and [B]SSJ missiles

wet root
#

I actually have defensive HoJ on some of my Tantos, it's pretty nice

#

And only costs 1 point

#

Hm, I wonder if it's feasible to increase the warhead while still having decent hit rate against Skiffs, they could be multi-purpose anti-Skiff and anti-shuttle devices

glad aurora
lime jungleBOT
wet root
#

If HC chaff hasn't been causing too many problems that's definitely preferable, needing a lock for the HEI ones is a pain

glad aurora
#

if it doesn't run into HC chaff it's a dead skiff, yeah

#

I can't afford to use a lock on skiffs on my hybrid boats so it's kind of like

welp

wet root
#

I can see a police frigate design that skulks around the skies sniping Tugs/Shuttles and Skiffs

#

But that's a lot less affordable on a Vaux or the like

glad aurora
#

I have a backpack VLS-2 on the Vaux

#

15 cruise missiles, three active decoys, 6 of these

wet root
#

I've been poking at CMD SSJ S2s with a big enough warhead they can kill Bombers off of even Spyglass tracks as a backpack, with quite short range - idea being they have just enough range to interrupt a rocket strike, while the SSJ pulls any ARAD S2 strikes, and killing the bombers breaks CMD S2 strikes

#

They have the slight issue of flying into the incoming strike and popping the proxy warhead on that instead though, which admittedly still works decently for defending against the strike

#

But leaves the bombers alive

glad aurora
#

truth be told, my perspective post-aurora changes on being attacked by bombers in a hybrid vaux is gg go next

#

genuinely might as well quit on the spot

#

(unless they're firing guided missiles, in which case they can't hurt you)

olive blade
#

I think hybrid vaux has always kinda been a questionable choice

#

and this just brings it a bit more into the light

topaz jolt
junior heron
#

<@&942093958551588904> anyone want to play some pub games?

wet root
#

I'll be up for Pubulous in ~1 hour

glad aurora
#

I'll run some pubs, sure

#

give me a sec to fix up frigblob and/or make a new™ triple vaux fleet

#

I think I need to make a new one since RCCs no longer work on flak, yeah?

noble zodiac
glad aurora
#

damn, they made vauxes cost money all of a sudden

time to rip out DC

junior heron
#

I don't think they changed vaux cost, did they?

glad aurora
#

they may have made something I was using cost money because the fleet's 264pts over and I didn't bring any ADs

#

however, I probably don't need all this DC

#

alright, all set, ping me when it's time to stack up and I'll get back in

quiet quiver
#

How old is this fleet and how many aux steers are in it?

glad aurora
#

Had three in the nose, but realistically it was probably a combination of factors like going to dual drive and bringing more modules not RCCs

#

Still managed to fit in one (1) emergency AD in the end

wet root
#

@glad aurora poke

junior heron
#

<@&942093958551588904>
day 3 of hoping I'm finally pinging at the right time to play some pubs with @wary flame

#

(sorry for the double ping misc)

glad aurora
#

staying late at work but should be around Sometime™ (an hour or so from now, I'd bet)

wicked mirage
wary flame
#

I will be about shortly

wet root
#

I will be around in ~25, had a very long call

glad aurora
#

I am probably going to actually make dinner, realized after I got home how late it was

junior heron
#

well, my game 1 is done

#

felt very good to be complimented for my carrier play, despite not really doing a ton

#

oh darn, Boat Night voice channels got noticed

#

can't hijack them

oak shell
#

I can play in 45 minutes if y'all are still on

junior heron
#

<@&942093958551588904> ping 2 it's shortly, I think

wet root
lime jungleBOT
wet root
#

(I recommend using it in a salvo with a Weave S2H though, since active PD is likely to snipe it if it's on its own due to lack of terminals)

junior heron
#

<@&942093958551588904> I am once again pinging for afternoon neb

oak shell
#

I am once again still at work

wary flame
#

will be around shortly, downing tea and finishing writing

olive blade
#

I'll be around for a game at least

junior heron
junior heron
#

<@&942093958551588904> boat night!

oak shell
#

I will be on in 10 minutes

wicked mirage
#

In DnD still, gonna be a while

wet root
#

I'll be on in a few mins

mint sinew
#

About 15 min for me

sharp crow
#

hopefully that will be enough time for ashley to wake up and open the channels

wet root
#

Cya Thijs!

junior heron
#

seeya Thijs!

sharp crow
#

I'm gonna take a break from nebulous for the foreseeable future, if you desperately need another person for boat night you can ping me but otherwise I'll pass

wet root
#

Aw, fair :(

glad aurora
#

I'm sorry to hear that, but I understand.

wet root
#

This is a supremely ugly ConL, I kind of love it

image.png
runic torrent
#

Sorry guys just in a lot of pain

#

Seeing a physio soon and then hopefully no more delays

oak shell
#

Sorry to hear that, I hope you can get it sorted out

crude wagon
#

Just got the game and good god everything is confusing. I think my main issue is complete lack of scale/lack of knowledge how far or close I should be.

#

Also the ships feel incredibly lumbering and slow to turn
It takes a business week to change heading

#

Tho this is probably normal

mint sinew
#

Yeah, range bands are an acquired knowledge set. Listed ranges are available in game for the various munitions but knowing their actual effective ranges is more art than science

#

And yeah, even the zippiest of ships handle like bricks. Not too bad once you get used to the pace of the game, but it has a lot of "dying to a decision you made 5 minutes ago"

crude wagon
#

Ok so unless it's hyper specific, or that one kind of missile fired point blank, they don't really matter, but how do you even handle gun/cannon fire?
Retreat behind something, or point at them witj good armour I presume are the only real options?

supple sonnetBOT
#

You can try to dodge and evade at some ranges, but other then that bowtanking and builind reinforced stacks to take the blows are the main options

mint sinew
#

Both are good options. Other good options include:

  • denying their ability to see you/have a good track with jamming
  • force them to withdraw from the engagement first (i.e. overwhelming firepower from your side)
  • dodge enough shots to mitigate damage (the orbit tool is great here)
image0-9.png
crude wagon
#

I also keep mixing up heading and course, so That has buggered me probably 3 times :V
But that's purely execution error.

crude wagon
#

One last question I can't seem to find the answer for. Does the game tag/confirm ship kills, or have I been shooting at wrecks for no reason until someone else tags it at confirmed destruction?
And if yes, or if It takes some time to mark them, are there any good ways to quickly know when a ship is disabled?

errant crow
#

Kills (grey tracks) are manually marked

crude wagon
#

Well that explains it. (That wasn't mentioned Anywhere in the Tutorial wth)

#

I was wondering why it takes so ungodly long to put down those ships

#

((good thing I'm practicing in skirmish and not multiplayer cause I'd have given some people aneurysms))

errant crow
#

yeah i'm probably not up to spec on how to confirm Kill-kills

#

seeing escape pods is one

#

grey smoke around the hull?

junior heron
#

it won't mark them grey, but if you see them tagged with "evacuated" they're killed

junior heron
crude wagon
#

Thanks

errant crow
#

red is i think CIC broken

#

or something like that

junior heron
#

red means the ship is out of power

errant crow
#

good to know

crude wagon
#

There is so much stuff bwehh lmao

noble zodiac
#

you want to look for a wide cloud of static grey smoke around the hull

worthy bane
#

Neb crashes whenever I open the multiplayer tab - anyone have any idea why or should I go rejoin nebcord to ask there?

junior heron
#

huh, that is odd

#

are you on linux?

mental tusk
#

Quick reminder if you want to join: Every Sunday over in the NebFleet Fight Club discord server with have big modded PvP fight nights with an actively changing banlist to promote healthy play. Be there or be 🔳

#

(Dunno if I can push links here, message me and I’ll pull you into the 70-member server)

#

Event: 4:00 EST

oak shell
#

Also, one of the things that helped me early on was rebinding the Move To command to the Q key.

glad aurora
#

there's also the evac alarm when you zoom way in on a ship

worthy bane
quiet quiver
#

The good ol' Proton Fiddle

#

(I am quite familiar)

crude wagon
#

Are there any resources available? All the video tutorialz are 3-4 years old so I think they might be a bit outdated

junior heron
#

I think there might be some more recent guides on Steam, but you can also ask around here, or on the official discord

quiet quiver
#

JDee's are still pretty good I think

noble zodiac
gusty imp
wet root
crude wagon
#

Wow I am so bad. Keep getting one ship focused down and severely damaged by those giant gunnery ships, that look like a big shipping container, and then I cannot keep up since half of my ships are limping. (Oak)

wet root
#

Marauder Lineships (OSP's big gun broadsiders, not to be confused with Moorline Container Liners, which shoot shipping container missiles at you) are terrifying, they can send an unparalleled quantity of heavy ordnance downrange

#

Positioning not to get focused down just takes experience

crude wagon
#

Exactly those. They take good damage from the cannons, but for example, a missile deals basically no damage.
And they seem to deal more damage alone than I am able to put out with two ships

#

They are kinda terrifying

dark dawn
#

They
sorta can

#

In they can fire a 'magazine' of shots very quickly, but then have to deal with an extremely long reload

crude wagon
#

I'll have to check if they are well armoured, to know if I need to soften them with AP.

glad aurora
#

they are not

#

they have paper armor

crude wagon
#

That should probably help then.

simple drum
#

Also hekp hybrids from the right angle can absolutly gut them with no problem

#

No need to break the stracture even

wicked mirage
#

Whenever you're I'm down to sit down and talk shop, I can help you build a fleet and anything else you want!

junior heron
#

@wet root what arcane magic did you do to the Luna Wave to make it look like it does?

#

also, does your hammerhead design only work with that specific hull shape?

wet root
#

If you're looking for that specific setup I can send the fleet file

#

Otherwise, a lot of futzing with the fittings

wet root
junior heron
#

I'm mostly curious about the paint, and lack of dazzle camo

wet root
#

The one with the wider midsection avoids that but catches more shots in the back area

#

Oh, you can set the third color for the dazzle camo manually, then at really extreme offsets the camo gets strange

# 
        <HullTint>
          <r>0.4</r>
          <g>0</g>
          <b>0.2</b>
          <a>1</a>
        </HullTint>
        <TextureVariation>
          <x>1E+11</x>
          <y>5E+07</y>
          <z>1E+11</z>
        </TextureVariation>
#

IIRC if you swap the signs on x and/or z you can get diagonal or vertical stripes

junior heron
#

is it per-hull or across the whole fleet?

wet root
#

I've considered swapping to it to reduce beam damage though, since about half the forward cross section would be the wide section where beams can only hit guns

wet root
#

But only on liners IIRC, unfortunately

junior heron
#

dunno if you're looking or know this now, but do you know if it's also per-fighter?

#

huh

wet root
#

I haven't checked to see if you can add the TextureVariation field to other hulls to customize their patterns, lmk if you try it

#

But only liners get a third color by default, and AFAIK they're the only ones that support a third color at all

#

(In my setup the only place the second color shows up is on the guns, but you can make it so all three colors show up by adjusting the offset)

junior heron
#

@noble zodiac want to voice chat?

#

okay well offer still stands but now we are enemies

noble zodiac
#

MRROW

noble zodiac
#

new record !!!!!!!!!

image.png
#

knowing how the fuck to use R3s is so goated actually

#

i killed a vauxhall by fucking

#

removing its drive with R1s

#

i still had an entire R3 load in the tanks too

mint sinew
noble zodiac
#

launch at 1km

#

HBURN EVADE gets you past the defenders and flak

#

its that shrimple

#

maybe 1.5km if youre feeling risk averse

glad aurora
#

you die to breadsticks but when don't you

noble zodiac
#

i mean yeah

#

thats why i bring S1 cudas along

simple drum
simple drum
noble zodiac
#

ive cooked up this like

#

vaguely functional i think dual purpose S1

noble zodiac
supple sonnetBOT
#

..I wonder if you can make a long-range 1pt AA S1.

wet root
#

This is why I have SSJs on my last-ditch SDMs

wet root
#

(Or SAH but then they're not really 1pt since you have to bring an illum)

noble zodiac
#

you kinda can

glad aurora
#

the problem is that SAH AMMs against air instead of missile targets (i.e., evading) are Bad

#

so 1pt, no

noble zodiac
#

notably it is much easier to do as OSP into Tantos

noble zodiac
#

no not 1pt

#

2pt sure

noble zodiac
glad aurora
#

you can make a pretty solid dual-purpose 2pt ACT S1 for OSP, yeah

noble zodiac
#

both durability modupes will make that 2 hits but

glad aurora
#

durability modules feel uncomfortably mandatory for AN, but

That's Life™️

noble zodiac
#

ok small question

#

what are the different flavors of plane light strike For™

#

/ what situations do i want the S1s vs the S2s vs the FBUs

#

( @wicked mirage dunno if the reply pinged correctly 3:)

glad aurora
#

grain of salt since I'm not her, but assuming only the tantos carry S2s, those are for tugs while s1s and fbus are for shuttles

wicked mirage
# noble zodiac / what situations do i want the S1s vs the S2s vs the FBUs

Alrighty! So, the S1 Gale Spam is for the Zephyrs exclusively to hit small ships and take down cappers, the S2's are meant to be loaded in even amounts into a single wing of Night Thorns for a fast medium strike from Standoff range since they have the Stealth Coating, and the FBU's are for if it's late game and you're like "well shit there's no missiles or threatening craft for the Star Thorns to escort allies against, and I gotta kill these backcappers somehow" xD

#

Zephyrs come out fast since they use the Nose Illum and not the Wing Illum and can hit the naturals early sometimes, and they're also good at chasing down radar tugs or even MMT's

#

The Night Thorns are multirole, but they're meant to operate almost exclusively from Standoff range whether it's with their SDM-2's against enemy Craft or their S2's against ships. You only wanna close with them if the air war is already won and you're just cleaning up.

#

Cuz they just have 20mm nose guns

#

You can mix them with Star Thorns to do hard dogfighting as well, but I don't recommend that. This fleet doesn't have enough planes to risk them like that against OSP.

#

But yeah, the FBU's are just to give the Star Thorns something to do if there's nothing left for them to screen against.

noble zodiac
#

right

#

and the S1s are the primary light strike because of the range advantage over FBUs

#

nodnod

#

what i might do (<--- trying to both make a Slight Optimization For Playstyle of the garden and also make My Own Carrier Fleet) is slap the wing illums + the S1s onto the star thorns so they can share loadouts with the zephyrs

noble zodiac
#

(/separate question) do you usually throw the claymores around in packs of 4 or 6?

noble zodiac
#

<---- forgot they have centerline fuel tank

mint sinew
#

You can do 2 loadouts one carrying just S1s and the other with Illums and mix them

#

A lot of admin for a backup backup option, but I dislike being left with munitions I could expend

olive blade
#

does anyone understand what does and doesn't cause craft to do the weird thing where on an attack order against a ship they fly away for a bit and loop around

#

rather than firing their rockets or whatever

quiet quiver
#

Sometimes that's because of minimum firing range sometimes it's weirder behavior

#

Are you giving the order from inside 1k?

olive blade
#

yeah somewhere under 1200

#

but it seems to work fine with R3s but not R1s and S2s

quiet quiver
#

I think guided munitions have like a 2km minimum range and rockets and bombs are 1km, but I could be wrong

#

I haven't messed with it specifically

#

And R1 pods are funky because craft treat them like a gun

#

Okay this is an investigation that d0d0 did of specifically guided missiles from craft

olive blade
#

aha

#

its this turnaround range

#

thats getting me

#

the turnaround has to be about 2km

#

with S2 missiles I guess

olive blade
#

@wary flame did you ever find a way around this, I know you did a bunch of testing with S2 strikes at close range

olive blade
#

hmm it seems having a bomb saves you from the turaround range

#

if you try use it

#

its really annoying behavior though

quiet quiver
#

Yeah it is

#

IIRC it exists because of dropping bombs at <50m in early testing but it honestly went overboard

olive blade
#

I mean it just works weird

#

if you have a missile with 5k range and one with 2k range, you can't fire the 2k one even with the 5k disabled

#

but with a bomb and a 5k you can fire it at 1km

#

as long as the bomb is enabled

wary flame
#

if I have time I'll run some checks

noble zodiac
#

oh, on a similar topic

#

misc how does one do the AAMMM tech you cooked up ages ago

wary flame
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it's less good now, it changed for reasons that basically nobody can figure out

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you don't get the perfect pull-off that you could reliably manage in carrier testing but it still takes the edge off AMMs for cheap

glad aurora
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it's also just worse than SAHspam, which - average neb moment

wary flame
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you can use it with SAH S2s

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which are pretty fun

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you make a short-ranged, high-speed S2 and then a slightly longer ranged S1 with about the same speed or very slightly more - no warhead, fixed act seeker set to detect small targets

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S1s fire first, enemy AMMs aren't set to fire on them

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then S2s, enemy AMMs launch on the S2s and your 1pt S1s run into them and force them to detonate

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since yours have no warhead, they don't blow up on the enemy AMM and try to kill it, they force the enemy missile to detonate on them instead for 100% kill chance

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previously the enemy AMMs and your S1s would go chasing each other off to the side and leave the entire strike free rein, but that doesn't happen much anymore

noble zodiac
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nodnod

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do they still work if you put HEI in them

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(because ive found that warheadless missiles on planes will launch against other planes, to the persistent bane of my old attempts to penaid R3s; the way around this is putting HEI in the missiles so it locks them to antiship)

wary flame
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they should, it's just more expensive and you need a fairly small warhead to get the performance you want sometimes

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I tend to keep them as 1pt duds

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SAH can get 1pt decent-warhead ones but they don't headbutt AMMs quite as well if they're trying to go for the ship

noble zodiac
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oh i mean im not going to go for these hitting the ship

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i just need them to have a warhead at all so they task properly x3

wary flame
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I generally just micromanage them myself, you can disable them in the panel

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but my classic cuda loadout is S1A, S2A, S1B, S2B - the S1s and S2s are identical but I make them different missile templates so I can enable one side, fire an S1 and a CMD S2, then enable the second side and fire those too

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that doesn't work very well now due to the really tight fuel restrictions, so I need to change to S1/S2/S2

glad aurora
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in the process of balancing craft a lot of the fun in them has disappeared into the ether

wet root
olive blade
junior heron
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<@&942093958551588904> Boat Night!

noble zodiac
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oh right !

oak shell
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I'm going to need a few minutes

noble zodiac
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I CAN ACTUALLY SHOW UP FOR ONCE

quiet quiver
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Channels open

junior heron
noble zodiac
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but i need a bit to make breakfast

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actually i might miss the first entire game bc im in a pancakes mood and pancakes take a bit

junior heron
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@wet root looks like there's 2 PNET servers up

image.png
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pancakes are good

noble zodiac
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but ill def be on for game 2

wicked mirage
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In DnD, hopefully it's not other 7 hour trip through the pain zone xD

noble zodiac
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sadly im not done my ANS carrier fleet or my playstyle-optimization of Celestial Garden but

wicked mirage
noble zodiac
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ofc !

mint sinew
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I'm about 15 min out so happy to catch game 2

topaz jolt
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Little boop.
I try to join for game 2. Especially if you've already started.

oak shell
wary flame
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will be there momentarily once I've made something to eat

wet root
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Should we wait for you?

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oh wait after you've got food, nvm

shut ridge
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whoa everyone is here

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damn

junior heron
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hello!

shut ridge
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hiii

junior heron
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btw, you'll need the role to see the boat night channels

shut ridge
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ooh

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where find?

junior heron
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if you go to #bot-stuff you can use ?rank Nebulous: Fleet Command

shut ridge
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tyty <3

noble zodiac
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QUINTO

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HIIII

wary flame
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hello quinto, been a minute

oak shell
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Normal fleet composition

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