#Nebulous: Fleet Command

1 messages · Page 30 of 1

wicked mirage
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Yeah it was wild! I had a CLN bombarding me with Containers while I was fighting both a Hexabrick and Cobalt Squadron at the same time.

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Also, doing 12k damage with 120 AP against MN's and Ocellos is pretty funny lol

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It works well with 450 breaking up the armor on MN's

noble zodiac
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SIX THOUSAND DAMAGE FROM THE VAUXHALL WITH NO GUNS

wet root
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@wicked mirage tragic news, the lowest you can get the error on a hypercorrelated EWR is 42m positional + 2.8m/s velocity, and with that much you still miss almost all your railgun shots on a BB at 12km

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Unfortunately the best answer for rail sniping remains "pos fire the EWR track"

glad aurora
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put the ewr on an ocello and then fill the slots with TCs

wet root
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That's what I was testing lol

glad aurora
wet root
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8 TCs

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And a back-mounted EWR because Ocellos are silly

image.png
mint sinew
junior heron
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if only OSP had some other sort of long range radar that was more accurate

wet root
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IDK I'm looking at all the options for the back mount of this Ocello

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And the next longest range is a Bullseye

mint sinew
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You're right. Hyper-correlated huntress should make a return

junior heron
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coward talk

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double pinard

wet root
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You're so right

junior heron
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always am

wet root
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I will definitely be able to fire Railguns at this track

junior heron
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-# *no I'm not

mint sinew
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I assume pinards and skiff wake sensors don't crossfix together

glad aurora
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they don't

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skiff ELINT crossfixes with regular pinard, however

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that said, I think we've discovered the true purpose of dualcello fleets

pinard on the back mount of each, place both in orbit on opposite ends of the map, fill with the thing no one ever brings that increases crossfix accuracy (?)

wet root
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Oh, huh. @junior heron , you might want to test if Hazel works in here as well as in Strategy club

glad aurora
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hazel dead

wet root
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@runic torrent

image.png
mint sinew
olive blade
runic torrent
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I can totally add hazel to this thread

glad aurora
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she has for a long time

runic torrent
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it's because I synced the forum with the offtopic general permissions

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got it got it let me fix it

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can someone try again?

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I'll fix it if it doesn't, may just need to move hazel over the general machine minds role

glad aurora
lime jungleBOT
# glad aurora

Fleet 'Who up beaming they MNs' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

The Messy Gun : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Beam PD Missile EWar Sensor]
  Every Flake : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [EWar Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
      SGM-101 Hobgoblin : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
SGM-2 Fish Poking Stick : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE)/CMD - HE FRAG [7pts]
     SGM-270 False Idol : DIRECT - NONE - NONE [7pts]
who_up_beaming_they_MNs.png
runic torrent
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okay, boom, so - the annoying thing is this means hazel has access to all threads in the video game forum

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oh well :P

olive blade
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hah

runic torrent
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but yeah I was absolutely cleaning up permissions earlier

glad aurora
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shit, hazel's going to find out about league of legends.

runic torrent
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it's why I was checking to make sure she worked in strategy club

olive blade
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ahhh

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I have maybe given her a few she shouldn't have then

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just been trying to figure out what she needs to post here

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nothing at all spicy just like maybe unneeded things

quiet quiver
runic torrent
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Gaming is a magical world

quiet quiver
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You haven't even seen the brainrotted lingo that goes on in 2025 NebCord

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Grum, trog, milk, The Guy

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(Milk isn't actually lingo, it's just a stupid injoke)

noble zodiac
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notably The Guy doesn’t exist anymore

twin vault
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what kind of game is this

quiet quiver
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Well, The Guy kinda still exists, just lost the jammers

runic torrent
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What's the guy

runic torrent
# twin vault what kind of game is this

https://youtu.be/JcDlzuv4ujI

YouTube
Eridanus Industries
NEBULOUS: Fleet Command - Early Access Release Trailer

The release trailer for NEBULOUS: Fleet Command, coming to early access 11 February, 2022.

Wishlist on Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/887570/NEBULOUS_Fleet_Command/

Public Roadmap: https://trello.com/b/ZNxJIGSQ/nebulous-public-roadmap
Join us on Discord: https://discord.gg/XSYYRPS
Support development on Patreon: https://www.patreon....

▶ Play video
tulip vault
tulip vault
quiet quiver
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The Guy is a low-cost all-rounder Barracuda build, it has 20mm nose gun, 35mm flechette gunpods, fuel tanks, and 2 BF Act ACMs. Before the recent balance update, it also had jammers

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Trog is a verb/adjective for very straightforward/mindless tactics and builds that enable them, "apply forehead to enemies" sorta stuff

tulip vault
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oh, I see

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do not love the vibe on that one if I'm honest but I suppose that's the nebcord for you

wary flame
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The Guy used to be way too strong for the cost, now it's pretty awful because Tantos got buffed massively

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no longer are all plane builds named as variants of The Guy

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The Guy, The Gal, The Antiguy, etc.

quiet quiver
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Oh yeah, now there is Spamto

misty storm
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are tantos still busted or did they get reined in a bit?

quiet quiver
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The minipatch helped Cuda compete but Tanto are still very strong

misty storm
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i see

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i feel like it would be fine without the cuda ai buff

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and i kinda disagree with the concept of the buff tbh

glad aurora
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The Guy Reloaded, look how they killed you 😔

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(the air war is none of my concern anymore, I no longer play carriers)

oak shell
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I want to get good at carriers, but I can't keep up with the arms race

dark dawn
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Yeah, we're at the like
Counter-counter-counter-counter-countermeasures for craft missile warfare

supple sonnetBOT
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Yo dawg, I heard you liked ECCM..?

oak shell
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Speaking of, <@&942093958551588904> is anyone up for some pubulous

oak shell
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How do y'all set up your plasma monitors?

mint sinew
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For what usecase? In a monitor ball?

oak shell
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yes

mint sinew
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I'm quite fond of C56 + 2x T81 but I know a lot of people prefer a full team of C90 + T81 + T30 rather than having specialist mons

oak shell
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How do you get the power to run all that

mint sinew
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Boosted reactor makes a lot of power

oak shell
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Not enough to power two T81s

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Oh I see my problem, I still had a huntress on it

mint sinew
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It should, they are only 1500 kW each. Add 1200 kW for a bridge master and you still have headroom for pd, buffs and the C56

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That'd do it, my other guess was grazers

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For buff modules just focus on RCCs no need for eregs

oak shell
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thanks

wicked mirage
olive blade
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I like C90 T81 T30 setups

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the C90 is just really nice to hace

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yeahh neb pings are always at awkward times for me too haha

quiet quiver
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My gut feel on pentabrick RN is 3 600/100 and 2 250/plas

olive blade
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thats an interesting one

oak shell
sharp crow
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I've seen one of those in the wild, it's a solid setup

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pentabricks just feel vulnerable to craft and missiles in a way that obelisks don't though

night fable
wicked mirage
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ayo that tongue tho

noble zodiac
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vine boom dot mp3

runic torrent
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channels open

sharp crow
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<@&942093958551588904> due to the time crime known as daylight savings, it is now boat night time in the united states

runic torrent
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i know it's the worst

wicked mirage
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Glhf everyone, I'll be cheering for you guys while I'm at work disintegrate

sharp crow
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we should probably recheck the usual time for these games at some point

oak shell
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I'll be generally available starting next weekend

wicked mirage
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Right now I only get to exist Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday

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I work weekends

junior heron
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minor update

wet root
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Oh, nice fixes

quiet quiver
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Yay for that LN aimpoint fix

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Was incredibly frustrating

wicked mirage
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Yay ^^

wet root
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Patch Notes - 0.5.2.8:250319-1905
+PUBLIC TEST BRANCH+

Changes/Features:

  • Decreased Mk25 Rebound PDT recycle time to 0.2s (was 0.3) and reload time to 2.5s (was 3).
  • Changed Mk25 Rebound PDT recycle stat type to "belt", no longer buffed by Rapid Cycle Cradle.
  • Increased 50mm Flak round armor penetration to 0.225cm (was 0.1).
  • Decreased Tanto Interceptor skin thickness to 0.2cm (was 0.3).
  • Decreased Barracuda Strike Fighter skin thickness to 0.2cm (was 0.3).
  • Increased point cost of KBU-22 Bomb to 2 (was 1).
  • Removed munition tag "Glide Bomb/S2" from Tanto S2 Bay and Barracuda S2 Pylons.
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Good news for @junior heron

glad aurora
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lmao she finally got to unbuffable rebound

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the flak changes versus planes is nuts, though

mint sinew
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Do not fly in the sparkly danger clouds

wet root
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Does this mean PD actually does something to craft now? If so, yay

glad aurora
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well, realistically no because they're either going to release outside PD range or there's going to be 24-48 of them coming at you at once

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but we'll see

wet root
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Does the armor pen on flak hit any breakpoints other than craft?

junior heron
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what's the good news for me, specifically?

mint sinew
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Basically doubles flak damage into fighters so screening flak escorts should be much more effective at cutting down strike fighters

junior heron
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other than less of my battleship getting bombed in general?

wet root
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So they'll have to use bombers or softkillable munitions to bonk the autumn

junior heron
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bombers are slightly more beamable...

wary flame
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this apparently caused some problems with flak shredding containers because their AP went up and coil tantos one shotting cudas, making them even stronger than they already were

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so expect patch^patch soon

wet root
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And tantoable and breadstickable and half the wing size

wet root
glad aurora
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yep, coils were 0.275

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specifically so they couldn't one-shot cudas

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I wasn't going to remark on that because I assumed Lys was going to fix it immediately as soon as she remembered why those values were where they were

glad aurora
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the tournament matches have been extremely funny for that exact reason

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if there is literally anything you can do to get around softkill making munitions dogshit you will do it

wary flame
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yeah, I am the only person who still uses torpedo sturgeons

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not because they are good but because nobody expects the [wake]

glad aurora
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it is kind of funny to have cassandra'd about this shit for so long and then now that it's just settled doctrine everyone's like "yeah of course X, Y, and Z are bad"

mint sinew
glad aurora
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kind of?

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long story short it's "when there's this many munitions there's no weapon system in the game that can actually stop them striking you, and if it did exist it'd be busted OP against any smaller (i.e., normal) commitment"

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that was one of the original structural problems with hellbombing in testing

quiet quiver
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"The bomber always gets through"

glad aurora
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debatable!
but yes, I don't think there's actually anything you can do to stop 24-48 fighters running your proverbial fade

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the question is just whether they deal enough damage to you to make the trade worth it

quiet quiver
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The historical quote (from 1932) is basically about how a sufficient investment in bombing will always penetrate air defenses, and that investment will be reached and utilized

mint sinew
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I don't play enough ANS capitals into spammed fighters to have tested it, but the old offset pd device from the EO/D days comes to mind. Especially if flak ends up threatening to fighters.

Parking a pure flak sprinter between you and the swarm should either force a split strike or a dramatically thinned one

glad aurora
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Yes, I know, I probably should've gone "debatable! are we using bombers?" in my reply to make the joke more clear

glad aurora
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but that's not really ever going to happen to you in pubs

quiet quiver
mint sinew
wary flame
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the speed at which a traditional cap fleet dies to a carrier is absurd

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you just melt

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even a single strike journeyman, which is far from the best at this, can reliably break a flank open for a few friendly cappers to exploit

mint sinew
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Oh yeah, all my cap fleets have gone to half carrier or heavier asset focused because of this

glad aurora
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it's not that much investment

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it's kind of funny, because it's legitimately scarier in a BB to realize oh. oh no they're smart enough to be shooting at my PD sprinter instead of me. fuck, I need CAP

wary flame
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it's also kind of boring when your two kinds of unit are "minimum price of entry capmeat" and "capital ship squadron"

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to be fair, the primary downside of PD escorts has always been that they tend to be very shootable

glad aurora
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indeed so

rigid bison
glad aurora
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god, I wish 250 vauxes were good

rigid bison
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I do too 😔

quiet quiver
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They're alright, IMO they're just more missile-vulnerable than other ships of their size

noble zodiac
wet root
glad aurora
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That's... not the changes I expected

wet root
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Makes flak not chew through containers, I believe

junior heron
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with these changes, I assume everyone's fine with PTB for boat night?

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all 4 of us who will show up?

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(we should try and reschedule if there's still larger interest, but I haven't had the time or energy to figure that out)

mint sinew
tulip vault
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I think I can this week

wet root
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:O exciting!

supple sonnetBOT
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..Hey, how do Sarissas do against craft?

glad aurora
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well, as pickets to catch them en route
better against containers

night fable
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It's Friday, lab rats, and that means it's time for yet more Friday Night Fleet Command - this time on the PTB! I'm hosting open multiplayer lobbies in NEBULOUS: Fleet Command on my Twitch channel below!
https://www.twitch.tv/docvivileandra <@&942093958551588904>

Twitch
DocViviLeandra - Twitch

Friday Night Fleet Command - Public Test Branch Edition! Open multiplayer lobbies on the PTB! Type !discord to join the discord!

oak shell
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Boat night is in 15 minutes, right?

sharp crow
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1 hour 15

junior heron
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if it fits schedules better, we could maybe start early?
dunno who all is planning on showing up and how much time and energy everyone will have

sharp crow
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there is a testing branch up I suppose

junior heron
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true

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time to reboundmax

wet root
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@quiet quiver mind opening the boat night channels?

junior heron
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<@&942093958551588904> so, what's the boat night turnout looking like?

runic torrent
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boaaats

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channeesls oppeen

misty storm
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Mayb

wary flame
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I wish I could boat but it is work hours

sharp crow
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we are on testing branch

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and could always use more gamers

topaz jolt
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Boat time?

sharp crow
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yep

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right now

olive blade
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I think last night was a bit rough for me unfortunately, still pretty ill

oak shell
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Tantos good?

junior heron
wicked mirage
noble zodiac
wicked mirage
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I figured out a fun tech btw

noble zodiac
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👀 ?

wicked mirage
# noble zodiac 👀 ?

You can make a 14 Point ARAD/SAH S3H with Weave, give it a size 4 warhead which is still a decent bit of damage, and then give it about 8.2km of Sprint distance with enough maneuverability to still hit, and then you have a backup weapon to throw into Monitor balls that are jamming you out. If they're in range to shoot plasma then you're in range to blind fire them into the jamming ^^

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The SAH backup can just be used with Floodlight(s) that you might already have to try and overcome jamming, and is just ARAD/ACT at that point but cheaper and can stage at 4km normally instead of 3km.

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You can also turn the SAH backup into a Steerable ACT backup but that makes the missile 15 points as opposed to 14. It's meant to be a super cheap supplemental weapon to stick on Gun CH's and BB's.

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Vauxhalls could also benefit from it.

topaz jolt
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Get hugged Pyrope!

noble zodiac
noble zodiac
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i mean that makes it perfect for vauxes, because 8km is where you want to be fighting already

glad aurora
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does a size 4 warhead actually do anything to a DCX+rapids MN

wicked mirage
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It's about 35x 50 damage rays that, in my testing, a single hit can red the nose gun, grey out some thrusters, and make some internal components yellow. Which when you're trying to churn through bricks with guns can help a lot since you can just DT break the nose with 450 right away after a hit, and it can't dodge the bullets as well anymore either.

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And if you get like 3 hits on a single MN it'll cripple it just as well as anything else so you can finish it off with guns.

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Also, to get down into the weeds of it, an MN only has 20% DR so even a single ray that hits a component has a better chance of damaging it beyond the MN's repair cap even with a DCX, moreso than a Bulker which has 35% DR

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MN's only take about 5k - 6k damage to K-kill even with a DCX. Rarely, I've seen MN's take upwards of 8k damage before going kaput but even that's only if they're given a chance to repair up multiple times between taking damage.

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The main hurdle is applying damage through the armor, MN's don't actually have that much HP if you get down to the numbers of it.

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It's why Beams obliterate them in record time but guns take a while.

sharp crow
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yeah I've been doing decent damage to monitors with hekp S2Hs too for that reason

wicked mirage
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Nice ^^

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And yeah a size 4 S3H HEI warhead definitely breaks MN armor lol

sharp crow
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this bloodhound/ewr cmd missile monitor I've stolen out of a tournament game has been so much fun

wet root
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Oh interesting I didn't realize it had a Bloodhound too

wicked mirage
sharp crow
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yeah that's how it guides the cmds

wicked mirage
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And you can even put a Sals on it to punch Craft

wet root
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I had assumed they were Gales

sharp crow
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nope, all cmd

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which is nice because it's primarily for cap denial, and there isn't a sprinter in this world carrying a golfball

wet root
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Makes sense

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It's also just annoyingly hard to remove compared to an EWR tug

sharp crow
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I could probably run a sals or tals on it but the volleys of 12 are nice for firing at vauxhalls and axfords in a pinch

wet root
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I should probably put something similar in my Hammerhead + Caps fleet

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Though since it's me I'll be swapping the Bloodhound for a Lighthouse, of course

sharp crow
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I think it's fantastic

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guaranteed impact

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just shooting down caps and hovering menacingly

wet root
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I usually tend to leave a MMT in the back to cover caps, but a MN is so much harder to remove

wicked mirage
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Speaking of missile tech, a CMD/ARAD 2x Spearfish Subm container with a Cluster Decoy Launcher is only about 30 points, and if you make the Submunitions come out at 3.8km with the dispersion duration set to Long (1s) you can fire out all the decoys before the container pops from deploying its submunitions. Importantly, it's also functionally unsoftkillable because the containers deploy everything before they get close enough for a Discoball to overcome the CMD. The only real counter is either a Fighter escort or a real Hardkill PD net of stonewalls and defenders. It's really really good and cost effective to slap a pair onto the backs of Bulkers to win fights against Axfords and Solomons.

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4 Spearfishes + 12 decoys will easily get through people relying on just a few defenders + softkill to protect themselves against missiles, which is a lot of people lol.

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You can even drop the ARAD for Cold Gas cuz it's only there as an afterthought anyway. Cold Gas makes them infinitely easier to use as well since it reduces the chance of the containers getting stuck behind the bulker, and also speeds up the time from launch to impact by a fair margin.

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Or if you wanna be frugal with points you can go double decoy launcher instead of cluster decoy launcher for the same amount of decoys for less points.

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ARAD's only purpose for it is in case you're being Hangup'd so that there's still a chance you might hit something, but then you can also just elect not to fire while you're being hangup jammed and wait till later xD

mint sinew
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I assumed the ARAD was a backup against being jammed out of your good track

wicked mirage
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And how many points you wanna spend

sharp crow
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that sounds pretty nasty

wicked mirage
# sharp crow that sounds pretty nasty

Yeah! Importantly, it lets you have a missile backpack for Bulkers that doesn't take up internal mag space as well, so you can run a single Citadel mag just fine.

mint sinew
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Yeah, should try tweaking up a LN fleet that returns to container backpacks. Giving up the backpack fighters hurts

wicked mirage
mint sinew
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It's true but I've been finding 6 good minimum cuda wing to blunt initial strikes or hunt sewacs. A classic Fluffy gets stuck in a local maximum problem

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Time to create some more creatures

wet root
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Can't you get a 6-cuda wing with a backpack hangar and an internal hangar bay?

noble zodiac
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one internal hangar gives you 3 planes iirc

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so you need 3 CHLPs

mint sinew
noble zodiac
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trying to do it with 2 CHLPs means 2 internal hangars and only 1 plane in 1 of them

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or two in each, which i guess gets you a skiff? but then you have to pick between DCX and citmag

mint sinew
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I'm assuming over a LN pair so 3-5 pads + internal gives you 6 cudas 0-2 pikes

noble zodiac
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trying to do it with 1 CHLP runs into this funny concept called "it takes a fucking year to loft your full win"

noble zodiac
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i mean in that case you take like 2 pads and 1 internal hangar per

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and get 6 cudas 2 pikes 2 skiffs

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as an illustrative example

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idk if yall liner players run sniffs at all

mint sinew
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Don't usually have the space on a backpack to justify a skiff vs a spare pike

olive blade
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but I eventually decided the regular pentabrick was just kinda better

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I do like it as a backpack option with the 2 per container

wicked mirage
wicked mirage
olive blade
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yeah that bit is nice

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esp the internal mag space bit

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I guess it costs a bit for a full set of it but

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hmm actually are channels an issue for bulkers now? I thought they got cut down a bit

mint sinew
olive blade
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yeah so I guess its a bit tricky to get a decent salvo size in a lot of ways, so I guess you are just really using one slot for it hmm

quiet quiver
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So Das has set up a server for ranked stack v stack gaming. No matchmaking (natch) but your W/L will be tracked and an openskill rating applied

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IDK if the discord for it is open-invite or not, but the Neb server and existence of the leaderboard are public knowledge

glad aurora
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can't say it'll say anything more interesting than the ~12-14 players we already know are the best in the world are in fact the best in the world, but it's neat that it's out there

mint sinew
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It'll be interesting to see if they can get significant data volumes. Stack v stack feels like it will be quite restrictive to picking up unplanned games

quiet quiver
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I think it might be tracking every game and player on the server but you're intended to play there in a stack

mint sinew
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I figured that would be the case, like the old killboard servers. However much like NKB I expect most players to bounce out if they wander in to the rank tracking server and see a moderately scary stack alone on one side

wicked mirage
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I called off from work today!

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That means I can play some hopefully!

topaz jolt
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I'm awake right now tooo. So hopefully I get to play tooo.

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Um. Main or Test?

junior heron
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I generally vote for Test

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but that kind of comes down to whether or not we've got enough players for an in-house

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because otherwise, it's a lot easier to find a server for main

topaz jolt
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Okiee. I'll make sure I have Test downloaded now then.

Test mode is downloaded now.

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Um. How long until the Nebulous noises?

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2.25 hours?

sharp crow
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1 hour 15

topaz jolt
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Oh thank you! I would have gone to have a nap if it wasn't so soon.

oak shell
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Boat night might be delayed because half the regulars are in a Mechabellum match

runic torrent
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<@&942093958551588904> channels openn

sharp crow
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gamers assemble

topaz jolt
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Little boop to the @wicked mirage

wicked mirage
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Omw!

wicked mirage
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I'll join VC in a few

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Gonna join the lobby now

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@wet root Are you guys on PTB?

noble zodiac
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hmm

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i might actually exist today

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seconding pyrope's question re: PTB

sharp crow
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we are on testing branch yeah

sharp crow
lime jungleBOT
# sharp crow <@300083137843560448>

Fleet 'ANS - 2x Backpack CLs' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

Corporate Homeworking Solutions : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun Missile PD]
 The Commute From Bed To Laptop : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun Missile PD]
   Laptop Running Windows Vista : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [EWar PD]
```This fleet uses 4 different missile types:
```yaml
           SDM-220 Naginata M7R-X : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE FRAG [5pts]
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
         SGM-H-202 Unopened Email : DIRECT - CMD/PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [13pts]
 SGM-H-222 Unopened Teams Message : DIRECT - CMD/PSV(WAKE) - HEKP [21pts]
ANS_-_2x_Backpack_CLs.png
wicked mirage
junior heron
#

Patch Notes - 0.5.2.8:250329-2141

+PUBLIC TEST BRANCH+

Changes/Features:
Increased Tanto illuminator pods FOV to 10 degrees (was 5).
Removed RBU-15 Boosted Bomb
Added FBU-15 Fragmentation Bomb, proximity burst warhead similar to RPF rounds.

rigid bison
#

hellbombing shuttles time

mint sinew
#

Important note, this is ANS only so no RPF bomb spam containers

glad aurora
#

RBU removed

#

FUCK

sharp crow
#

frag bombs, fascinating

deft current
quiet quiver
#

It's very much like RPF, also is undertuned

olive blade
#

whats the point

#

for hitting hybrids in flight or something?

wet root
#

ANS equivalent to rockets for hitting shuttles and tugs

#

You can't even get them to launch against craft, so I expect the same is true vs missiles

olive blade
#

right right

glad aurora
#

eventually I have faith we'll wrap all the way around to "AN does in fact need unsoftkillable unguided munitions for the exact same reasons OSP did"

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though if there was anything they didn't need it for it was "fuck over cappers on both sides with impunity now"

olive blade
#

I don't think like full softkill has ever been nearly as viable for osp but yeah

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I can see that happening in time

oak shell
#

Are capfleets bringing a lot of dazzlers?

sharp crow
#

I've seen the occasional omnijammer shuttle escorting a MMT

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never on a capper though

tulip vault
#

I have not seen a dazzler do anything

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like I honestly don't know how they work

oak shell
#

I bring one on my Ocello, but I'm not sure it's ever been useful

glad aurora
#

you don't spend money on EO

#

of all the things that AN needed unsoftkillable unguided munitions for, beating up cappers wasn't it lmao

oak shell
#

ic

wet root
quiet quiver
quiet quiver
wet root
#

Ahh

glad aurora
#

Well, he's come around to agreeing with me on a lot of things, which I am happy with, but that being the rationale for the illums being better...

#

"Gigantic fighter swarms" were already a problem, functionally always had been a problem, you localize the unsoftkillable munitions on the bombers because those can't also win dogfights and also be really fast and take up less space on the carrier

quiet quiver
#

More ammo for my Claymore illum proposal

glad aurora
#

honestly, if Lys is just this against adding the claymore R3, I really do wish it could get utility wing slots like your original proposal

#

countermeasure pods, jammers, illuminators, so on

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(sure the ones you'd take would be the illuminators and torps would go from being all ARAD/ACT to all CMD/SAH, but still)

junior heron
#

I want claymore beam

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not for good reasons

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but because beam

mint sinew
#

It would certainly give claymores an ANS unique unsoftkillable tool

rigid bison
#

Claymore 120 when?

tulip vault
#

I am genuinely here for claymore beams so that subsystem targeting has a point on ANS

glad aurora
#

honestly, yeah, that could be pretty cool

mint sinew
#

If you tune the beam range to be inside aurora range then that also avoids bypassing the Ocello as a hardkill tool

glad aurora
#

yeah, it'd have to be <2.5km

mint sinew
#

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea. Even if the marauder player in me is terrified

topaz jolt
#

Is this a dumbfire missile?

mint sinew
#

Giving the ANS bomber a single shot beam payload instead of a dumbfire missile

topaz jolt
#

Eeek. That sounds very scary.

#

I think my Occello has two smaller flak, and 2 Auroras?

lime jungleBOT
# topaz jolt

Fleet '3k Fey Twilight (Triple Drive Ocello)' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

 Fionnghuala : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
  Verenestra : 'Flathead' class Monitor [PD Gun Sensor]
Little Nymph : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
Little Sylph : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
Little Dryad : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-107 Mini Lance : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [2pts]
SGM-117 Tiny Lance : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [5pts]
  SGM-119 Firewall : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [4pts]
3k_Fey_Twilight_Triple_Drive_Ocello.png
topaz jolt
#

Yeee, it does.

#

Hecks. When did I remove my Intel Centre on my Monitor. I don't even remember doing that. SilvervaleCrys

#

It's not the best fleet. But it's by far my most effective one.

lime jungleBOT
# topaz jolt My best ANS fleet.

Fleet '3k Stary Night V3' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

     Vowel : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
Stary Form : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail Missile PD EWar]
      Bean : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD Gun]
```This fleet uses 4 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-117 Not a Lance : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
 SGM-117 Tiny Lance : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [5pts]
SGM-H-307 SpellFire : DIRECT - CMD - HEKP [45pts]
  SGM-H-342 Sunbeam : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [28pts]
3k_Stary_Night_V3.png
topaz jolt
#

The silly missiles tooo.

S3H-HEKP, S3-HE, S1-HE, S1-FRAG

I need to adjust the Tiny Lance again, it's a little too short ranged, by like 500m.

Wait it does!

lime jungleBOT
lime jungleBOT
lime jungleBOT
lime jungleBOT
topaz jolt
#

I thought Hazel wasn't doing the missiles, NM.

#

I'm just loading Test Nebulous. I'll be editing my 2 fleets I put into here, to try and make them a little more effective. Also voice chat go brrr. I'll be a couple of minutes while it loads though.

Okiee I'm back.

quiet quiver
#

I think 120 is too good against the OSP ship roster for Claymores to be allowed to shoot it

misty storm
lime jungleBOT
# misty storm

SDM-220 Naginata M7R-X is a size 2 missile that costs 5 points.

SDM-220_Naginata_M7R-X.png
wicked mirage
#

I'm 29% of the way there ^^

image.png
#

According to my calculations, at my current win rate I'll be a GADM in about 1,840 more games!

noble zodiac
quiet quiver
glad aurora
#

"AOE damage"?

quiet quiver
#

Lys made a pair of long posts in bal-con about the changes: #943416769660452904 message

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But TLDR is that KBUs getting shot down will take out other KBUs (and nearby fighters)

glad aurora
#

I can't read that. I'd appreciate if they could be forwarded as well

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fun thing to try for hellbombing nerf #91283849292718, though

toxic scaffold
glad aurora
#

Well, that's progress, I suppose.

#

Still does nothing about why bombers are bad, just (hopefully) mandates bringing them.

sharp crow
#

no changes for coiltos is a bit disappointing too but I guess the light strike is in the spotlight first

wet root
#

Big fan of those changes. Curious if you can get a cascade of bomb detonations if they're too close

glad aurora
#

that's the end of the clip, looks like

quiet quiver
#

Multiple cascades in that clip

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The one at 0:39 is the juiciest, and the one at 0:47 saves the ship at the last second, but there's a few smaller ones in there too

dark dawn
#

What's the issue with bombers?

quiet quiver
#

Ash doesn't like that torp strikes can be softkilled

mint sinew
#

A lot of people don't bring bombers in live because massed fighters strike capital ships well enough and can also defend from other craft and missiles

dark dawn
#

Got it
I mean I'm mostly waiting for coiltantos to not be busted until I come back

glad aurora
#

coincidentally none of the fighterspam munitions have been softkillable either

wary flame
#

S2 cuda supremacy once again

#

or at least, they work very well and will probably continue to

mint sinew
#

Unsoftkillable munitions alone aren't the magic bullet. The fighterspam options and old R3 sturgs were cracked due to cost efficiency and pd pen.

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I have seen exactly 1 dazzler over the last patch, for all practical purposes EO/X torps are unsoftkillable but they are used rarely

glad aurora
#

Naturally, but that just makes them more optimal as opposed to other options in a similar role - there was a lot of debate back in testing about R3tainers versus R3 Sturgeons since they delivered the same payload

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If a munition doesn't have the "unsoftkillable" tag, as it were, then bringing it is inherently gambling on your opponent to have fucked up at some point (whether in editor or in the softkill QTE)

mint sinew
#

Also worth noting, even with perfectly executed softkill marauders are unreliable at softkilling ACT torps, even with big chaff. Sure you are still gambling, but if you come in opposite their chaff box you are getting some hits

glad aurora
#

aye, that's why you have the offset jamming tug escort

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it's been in every one of my LN fleets for the last however long

dark dawn
#

Did we accidentally convolute ourself into one of those crappy sci-fi novels where EWAR is so powerful it made smart munitions obsolete and now we're back to the 1940s but space?

glad aurora
#

I mean, yeah, that's the conceit of having big gun ships existing in the same battlespace as missile warships.

#

"I show up with my [cruise missile vessel / aircraft carrier] and obliterate every single hostile vessel before visual contact so long as I get the first shot and have sensor cueing" is a bad balance state for Neb but accurate to missile weapon development

supple sonnetBOT
#

I mean... if the Journeyman is just a dry Bogue when you get down to it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogue-class_escort_carrier

Bogue-class escort carrier

The Bogue class were a class of 45 escort carriers built in the United States for service with the US Navy and the Royal Navy, through the Lend-Lease program, during World War II. Following the war, ten Bogue-class ships were kept in service by the US Navy and were reclassified for helicopter and aircraft transport operations.
The first 22 ships...

rigid bison
glad aurora
#

the central idea of neb as a game means that softkill has to be able to invalidate even the best-designed missile salvos if competent players are on both the giving and receiving sides, otherwise the game turns into just missiles

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thus why missiles are essentially a pubstomping and tempo weapon category

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craft are Big Missiles and thus are adjacent to that entire balance conundrum

dark dawn
#

I did call bombers 'OSP hybrids' so I get you

glad aurora
#

(thus why the most successful craft paradigms use either unsoftkillable or functionally unsoftkillable munitions in sufficient quantity that interception or engagement is no longer a realistic possibility)

dark dawn
#

Is that why everyone told me to only take R3s?

glad aurora
#

yeah

#

if the AN player pops one (1) active decoy, stops moving, and turns on one (1) disco ball OSP torps can't ever touch an AN capital

naturally all-aspect wake was intended to help with that, but uh

you can also just jam those

dark dawn
#

Doesn't help that THERM only works as validator

glad aurora
#

it's symmetrical on OSP except it's much fiddlier and more annoying

dark dawn
#

Due to lack of active decoys?

glad aurora
#

yeah, you have to do some stuff with offset jamming or decoytainers

junior heron
glad aurora
#

yes, the reason the R3 existed (and the repeated nerfs to AN softkill capabilities) is because the hypothetical situations one could think of for OSP torps/S2s functioning against AN capitals didn't really ever manifest

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now we're just waiting for the same realization to apply to AN bombers, but this many months later I'm not really holding out hope because the fiddliness and annoyance of the softkill QTE on OSP compared to AN means the pubstomping part of AN missiles is significantly more prevalent

dark dawn
#

Additionally, unlike the OSP, ANS strike craft aren't the only source of actual killing power

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Without those, we go back to the old meta where everything was brick and nothing ever died

wary flame
#

450 bulkers have been surprisingly good to me lately

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I had to add a bunch of T20s to Pyrope's designs because I am greedy for those light ship kills but I can't deny they're damned effective

quiet quiver
#

I've been tempted to just do T30 backpacks for corv-killing

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It's MORE GUN for only a few pts more

dark dawn
#

Why is this game so easy to optimise the fun out of

mint sinew
#

I find T20s have you covered on that front enough that I don't want to give up backpack slots

quiet quiver
#

I also find the idea of tipping over to fire the 100mm volley kinda humorous, TBF

mint sinew
#

I can't argue with that

glad aurora
#

sure, we all knew who was going to win the tournament from first bracket, but if you're not in that 0.0001% it simply doesn't matter, your teammates or opponents fucking up are going to be a lot more relevant than your optimizations beyond a baseline level of competence in fleetbuilding

quiet quiver
#

I think :3 had a serious shot at it

glad aurora
#

That is fair, it was closer than I'd expected

quiet quiver
#

Well :3 lost in the semis but they had to sub out one of their top players

dark dawn
#

Who won the tournament and why?

glad aurora
#

LIMOS, because it's the best players in the game bar none playing in a single stack

quiet quiver
#

IMO there are a bunch of other players on that caliber but no other team had 4 players that strong

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:3 had like 3 out of 6 (including subs)

olive blade
#

opportunity cost wise

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it sorta needs to be a two way gamble to work

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bringing the softkill and it being useless vs bringing the missiles and them being useless

olive blade
#

its minutes to get a bulker in, you can maybe do the strikes perfectly timed together peeking and doing a run but thats really really hard to do

quiet quiver
#

I think the opportunity cost of chaff is decent but absolutely worth it for most ships considering how multifunction a VLS-1 is and how cheap and prevalent Act seekers are

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Whereas comms jammers is more but still worth it for large ships and formations, IDK

glad aurora
#

comms jammers are arguably worth it on anything tug-sized or bigger, even

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those tug-shuttle pairs are mean, people just mostly stopped running them for ????

made my sprinter bombers happier when that happened

olive blade
#

I personally think chaff should be 3 points a pop

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and comms jamming needs to be rethought

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because smaller ships need a chance to have it, or like, be covered by it by hangups or something

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but it needs to be not an autoinclude for bigger ships

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pushing the cost up makes it basically infeasable for smaller ships

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I had been toying with the idea that disco should take a big ass mount, like an axford gun mount or something, but that kinda totally locks small ships out

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and I think the rear axford mount is still relatively free

olive blade
#

possibly even just really prohibitive power costing is an option

glad aurora
#

unfortunately if you don't softkill you just die to competent missiles at this point

olive blade
#

yeah but you don't competent missiles when everyone is softkill it like cuts around

glad aurora
#

I made a career for months out of playing nothing but "you either use this one hyperspecific counter to my missiles or you die," and the CLN is the CLN

quiet quiver
glad aurora
#

(carrier testing also showed why imperfect softkill usually just results in "people die to missiles")

olive blade
#

I think softkill needs to work well when you bring it

glad aurora
#

it's a complex question, no denying it, and I'm not getting on Lys's ass here about "why haven't you solved this yet"

but unfortunately I don't think it's possible to ever make people stop bringing omnisoftkill, you just chip away at all their other capabilities

olive blade
#

I think it has to be just made a real cost

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like you need to meaningfully trade away some capability that you want

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as it is you trade a few small mounts and a points cost

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like I think the tri-seeker containers are a bit of a problem as well in that they kinda force the opponent to have the full omni suite too

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and it just leads to this meta where there is omni softkill and most better players not focusing on softkillable things, and running the risk to save the costs of not bringing softkill is just not worth it

glad aurora
#

yep

olive blade
#

in an ideal world this would be self balancing

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IE omni softkill -> nobody brings missiles -> you can remove the softkill no missiles -> some missiles become viable to get the greedy ships

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and you get a kinda gambling thing

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card game metagames work this way a lot

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but as it is, the softkillable stuff is very robust otherwise so you have to have the full suite, and the full suite doesn't really cost you much meaningfully

#

The EO vs EO jammer situation is kinda this actually

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because both are quire expensive so its very reasonable to greed

mint sinew
#

Part of the problem with the "metagame will balance itself" is that most games of neb are best of 1. Without the option to iterated in a semi-closed environment the seeker/softkill dance is being done mostly blind

olive blade
#

thats to some extent true of like, all list building games and list building elements to them

mint sinew
#

In the context of conquest where ship loadouts were slow to iterate this could have produced some interesting design shifts to counter pick what's in use

olive blade
#

like you get that in do they bring strike, do they bring big ships or small ships, do they bring lots of cap or like cap denial etc

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you are always kinda gambling your teams comp vs theirs

mint sinew
olive blade
#

the issue is really when its not a gamble

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yeah boarding helps to be sure, there are mechanics to mitigate this

quiet quiver
#

The EO jammer is not that expensive but it's still rarely taken

olive blade
#

but itts true of every list building like wargame

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and you can still have a metagame you still get more or less stable lists

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the dance being blind is not really an issue, the issue is that there is a very obvious correct choice and the costs of deviating from it are very high

quiet quiver
#

There's already kinda the "seekers chase holes in softkill, more gun beats omni-softkill" meta going around

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But also when softkill is onerous people just go hardkill everything

olive blade
#

yeah that would work too

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I think personally its just a costing issue

mint sinew
#

fair point, the best builds not having clean hate is a problem that can be fixed with points taxes

olive blade
#

you can just bring guns to fight the softkill axfords

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but honestly the softkill axfords don't cost thaat much more than a less softkilly one

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its like 10-15%

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if I could pay a 15% tax on an osp ship to make it immune to 450

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lmao

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and I mean we did kinda get the guns to fight pd meta ages ago when we were still in ans vs ans and you could just do hardkill battleship balls

glad aurora
#

as for the metagame: people simply refuse to play it as well

there's no reason to take risks when not being risky simultaneously expands your offensive capabilities (skipping hardkill) and insulates you from the counterpick

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you just get fucked if you can't QTE

olive blade
#

yeah and imo every approach needs to be risky

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on a level

glad aurora
olive blade
#

like every pick needs to have counterpicks basically

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if you protect against one thing it needs to on some level open you up to others

mint sinew
#

Softkill degrades much less gracefully than hardkill under fire, so there is a different risk factor to remember

olive blade
#

and that is the case on some level

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like costs always have opportunity costs but like

glad aurora
olive blade
#

if you invest heavily in a thing that can only kill stuff thats damaged

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your team is playing a whole lot of points down

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so you will probably mostly lose before you reach that point

mint sinew
#

Usually you have plenty of targets that aren't carrying omnisoftkill to fight to start (other craft, cappers, etc.). Then you can begin looking at strike on engaged frontline

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So says my own carrier doctrine anyway. Maybe I should be expecting better performance to strike into fresh 3k fleets

olive blade
#

I think its fine for cheaper stuff that has other capabilities anyway

#

like its fine for a carrier to struggle to sally out at the start of the game and hunt big ships

#

you have to win the air war and make space and get strikes through and stuff

#

but you have a lot of other capabilities and tools

#

and are doing a lot of other stuff, and having finisher weapons like bombs that are cheap is great

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but if you build I dunno a missile bulker say

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it probably has to be able to kill intact big ships because it can't really do that many different roles

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or at least degrade them relativly fast

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you can't really field some box with 300 missiles in it that just sits around waiting for someone to shoot off their chaff box

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(and to some extent with bombers, at least for osp R3s mean you can like, focus on trying to isolate and sneak strikes past more than anything and to some extent isolated is the real dead to R3 even with relatively intact defenses)

glad aurora
#

the carriers had nothing else to do but mass murder cappers for the first 10 minutes

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if you touched a point you died

mint sinew
#

I know about postcarrier capwar, I spent a lot of time in those trenches adapting solutions that worked well enough when your carrier lost the early void fight

junior heron
#

kind of related, but the Rebound buff felt pretty nice last boat night

mint sinew
#

It did, I've been running twin rebound corvs on live to survive R1s but the ptb rebound actually feels good to use not just fine

wet root
#

Rewatching that is very satisfying

wet root
#

But that doesn't help with cruise ofc

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(Though admittedly I haven't tried the cruise Gales + Pike Illum build, but I don't think it has the illumination power to reliably break jamming)

mint sinew
wet root
#

Oof, yeah, I can imagine

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Pikes are already top prio targets

junior heron
#

no no you should definitely fly your pikes closer

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say, about 5km

wet root
#

Pikes might actually be harder to beam than other craft, considering how they like to wander once they're painting a target

olive blade
#

its easier for ANS I think because bulkers are stupid big targets

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and I think their illum has a tighter cone

wet root
#

I thiiiiiink it's just longer range?

quiet quiver
#

Spotlight has longer range than Lighthouse and more power and a few other advantages

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But they're both the same cone

olive blade
#

right hmm

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I definitely had some struggles with holding lots of illums on the right point to avoid chaff

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and you need a lot to break blankets with the crappy osp ones

wet root
#

Bulkers have an annoying tendency to roll and cause the illums to drift onto chaff

olive blade
#

yeah

wet root
#

The new S1 mounts might help with that some, but it's definitely awkward as OSP

olive blade
#

and sometimes if you get the angle right for the illums

#

the travel time for each side of launchers can be quite different

quiet quiver
#

My gut feel is actually illum shuttle with a backup on the bulker

wet root
#

Especially now that people actually bring Flares, so you can't rely on wake secondaries to keep them going straight through jamming

olive blade
#

so you get a really spread and bad salvo

mint sinew
#

Shuttles holding illums tend to fare better on that front yeah

olive blade
#

hmm

#

two shuttles with 3 each

#

thats not bad

wet root
#

It just feels a bit fragile

olive blade
#

it definitely is yeah

wet root
#

But that's generally a weakness of Gale fleets

olive blade
#

thats yeah any gale fleet on osp

mint sinew
#

It is, but they're cheap so you can bring a few

olive blade
#

looks like about 145

mint sinew
#

The more resilient version is an illum/jam tug

wet root
#

There's definitely a reason they're not particularly popular

#

I'm not sure the cost nerf is still needed, considering how the meta's changed

olive blade
#

I guess this frees up a lot of mounts of the main liner to defend them

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tbh I was never happy with the gale nerf

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I thought 3 points with no backup and smol warhead or 4 with backup and any warhead

#

was a really interesting tradeoff

wet root
#

Yeah

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I actually brought a pretty even mix, it was a lot of fun designing around

olive blade
#

yeah

#

I usually brought cheap 3pts and a mix of various secondary seeker setups on the 4pts

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to make for messier strikes to avoid

wet root
#

I do like the cost reduction on S2s for other builds, but mrrh

olive blade
#

yeah

#

I just don't like that bit of it

#

I do kinda miss doing my garbage blaster builds

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but the nerf really hit them

topaz jolt
#

What are EO/X missiles?

mint sinew
#

EO with something as a backup

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So EO/ACT, EO/WAKE etc

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The specific doesn't really matter, just wants to fly straightish under a dazzler

topaz jolt
#

Oh.

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I think I made an active steerable radar and wake hybrid. But it keeps booping the wrong targets.

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And it makes me very sad that it does that.

wet root
mint sinew
topaz jolt
#

Awww. I think I'll be swapping back to pure Command again then.

glad aurora
#

do not do that

quiet quiver
#

CMD/backup is the way to go, usually Wake or HOJ or SAH

wet root
#

For your very expensive hybrids CMD/EO might be worthwhile

#

Er, EO/CMD is probably better actually

mint sinew
#

Track quality vs dead ship discrim. Depends on the goal of the missile really

wet root
#

Fireable on a bad track, though if you have two of the same ship class within range it might go for a different one than you wanted

#

Or dead ship, yeah

topaz jolt
#

I tend to have my Raines to fire the Hybrids. And have a hardlock from my Ashford.

#

And directionally radar jam the target as well.

#

What's EO's splitting range again?

wet root
#

3km

olive blade
#

if you are willing to go 5 illums keeping 4 on seems kinda doable, I wonder about going 4 and keeping a side slot open for a vls to cap

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since its pretty tricky to hold both side slots on target

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hmm no nose is prone to misbehaving

olive blade
#

someone fires an active decoy basically slightly off angle at your gales

#

if that grabs them

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or well at your illuminator ship

quiet quiver
#

If it's illum'd yes it grabs them

topaz jolt
#

Gosh. 3km too close for me. I want my hybrids to split at, at least 4km.
I'd have to go Command/EO then for that right?

olive blade
#

command with EO val works

#

but its about as expensive as you can get

topaz jolt
#

My Hybrids are 45 points each.

mint sinew
#

Command EO Val is pretty redundant

olive blade
#

and still loses to cmd jamming

#

command eo secondary I guess works too

mint sinew
#

CMD doesn't need validation as it can't be decoyed, just jammed

olive blade
#

which is messy

topaz jolt
#

I've been tempted to add a +25% transmission strength to my Axford to help against command jamming.

mint sinew
glad aurora
#

ultimately there's maybe four hybrid designs on the outside that still work

#

which is better than pre-100flak nerf

wet root
#

Opposing chaff launchers are what are most obnoxious IME, having a cloud on both sides of the ship makes it a pain to angle and avoid both

#

And rolling while chaffing makes it impossible

topaz jolt
#

Why are command missiles so expensive then if they can so easily be jammed now?

quiet quiver
#

They're still pretty good

topaz jolt
#

You still can't fire them if you have no CIC or comms.

#

Honestly. I've been having better use out of my Size 1 HE Command missiles.

quiet quiver
#

You can't fire anything with no CIC

topaz jolt
#

I'd rather fire a 5 point Command HE missile to finish off a Sprinter/Shuttle.

glad aurora
#

A?

supple sonnetBOT
#

Yeah unless you get vary lucky your just going to red a Reinforced compoent, but if you do get lucky you stun it

olive blade
sharp crow
#

a secondary seeker that makes your cmd missile fly dead ahead when jammed is all you need in my experience

#

it's cruise that suffers

glad aurora
#

yeah, CMD/SAH or CMD/HOJ are where it's at for hybrids

#

of those, I prefer CMD/HOJ because it doesn't die to combined jamming

sharp crow
#

that said I haven't tried yubbing in a while. maybe that's what I'll do this boat night

glad aurora
#

arad/act + act/[arad] mixed salvo still works pretty well

olive blade
#

yeahhh its like 7am sunday now for me urgh

sharp crow
#

simply live in a better timezone

mint sinew
#

but it's at 5am in mine. I have no idea where to find a better timezone

sharp crow
#

we could/should probably move boat night up some amount of hours

#

I think I'm the last european who regularly shows up anyway

#

I'm a crowd pleaser but that's probably not worth it overall.

olive blade
#

the last european [cuts to vinny in a tattered captains hat sleeping on the admirals chair of an abandoned ship]

sharp crow
#

what if we put start time at <t:1743886800:t>

#

two hours later

mint sinew
#

I'd have a good chance of being there this week

olive blade
#

I could make that work

oak shell
sharp crow
#

optimisation pass

junior heron
sharp crow
#

I was thinking today but I realise I did not ping the role to give everyone notice now

wet root
#

I'm fine with that today but if there is anyone it doesn't work for I can abandon my cozy bed to be there at the normal time

sharp crow
#

it would be better for our oceanic gamers

junior heron
#

if we're doing now, I'll be late

sharp crow
#

lets just go for the suggested new time then and see how it goes

runic torrent
#

okay sure

runic torrent
#

if nobody is gonna ping the role I will

junior heron
#

incredibly funny to ping that at the old start time

wicked mirage
#

I work todaaaaaaay ahhhhhhhhhh explodes into confetti

wet root
#

*sad woohoo*

sharp crow
#

I really do just need to poll availability for people again. I keep forgetting until saturday and then it's the boat night day

topaz jolt
#

Hii. I'm guessing test?

runic torrent
#

I showed up to open the channels!

opal cypress
#

Maybe I should play this game again, I haven't really had a chance to deep dive into the fleet building strategy

sharp crow
topaz jolt
#

Okiee. I'll download test patch now then.

wicked mirage
olive blade
#

Hmm I think I work full time those days

#

rip

sharp crow
#

<@&942093958551588904> alright everyone, lets play some nebulous. the channels are open

#

I'll be in after I grab a drink

quiet quiver
#

I might be watching my partner play Gundam

junior heron
#

funny name roll for the newest Box Boat

image.png
wicked mirage
sharp crow
#

railford gaming

image.png
junior heron
#

meanwhile, railcello gaming

image.png
#

@tulip vault get in here!

sharp crow
#

gotta get more sturg practice

olive blade
#

you did pretty great tbh

wicked mirage
#

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

wicked mirage
#

What did the Name Generator mean by this?

image.png
junior heron
#

second only to the name generator just giving you a ship called "Ride and Moan"

wicked mirage
noble zodiac
topaz jolt
#

Um. Well then. That's some silly random names.

warm gulch
quiet quiver
#

I still remember Aglow Mom

topaz jolt
#

Why do I feel like even if I had a 500 point advantage. My little fleet will still get squished.

errant crow
#

it do be like that sometimes

topaz jolt
#

I think I'm going to miss boat night this weekend.

I'm actually freeee.

sharp crow
#

it's mainulous

tulip vault
#

oh so frag bombs are actual main weapons, not finishers?

junior heron
#

main-ish it seems

#

I forgot to test if they also fratricide.

wet root
#

Oh, I hadn't realized the fighter armor changes meant S1s do full damage, does that mean standard frag S1s can 1shot fighters now?

#

Also I wonder if fighters still need to be unable to carry KBU-22s with the flak changes? Better safe than sorry I suppose

glad aurora
wicked mirage
#
  • Increased 50mm Flak round armor penetration to 0.176cm (was 0.1).
#

This drives me absolutely insane lol

#

0.001 difference from Tanto/Cuda skin thickness. That's so incredibly specific and immersion breaking AHHHHHHH

#

Just make it 0.18 cm please I'm on my hands and knees shaking and crying, just make R2 skin thickness 0.185 or something!!!

#

I can't stand it when stats like these don't end in 5 or 0 lol

sharp crow
#

it does seem a bit goofy

wet root
#

I'm just glad it's not equal, I can never recall if meets beats or not in Neb

#

Much prefer slightly silly numbers to having to go to the wiki every time I want to build a missile

supple sonnetBOT
#

Wait, S1s are now viable anti-craft missiles?

mint sinew
#

Yeah, you can get a one-shot with a BF warhead. Not 100% reliable but apparently ship launched CMD S1s were putting in work to punish fighters for closing

oblique jacinth
supple sonnetBOT
#

FANTASTIC. This completely fixes my issues with ANS AA.

wet root
#

Do HoJ defensives automatically fire against craft jammers?

mint sinew
#

Technically yes, but unhelpfully. They'll automatically fire against anything in their threat profile once it's their turn

#

(defensive missiles fire top to bottom if valid)

wet root
#

Oh, that's annoying

mint sinew
#

No actual logic about "I see a jammer, fire the HOJ"

wet root
#

Guess it's manual or nothing for those

mint sinew
#

You could keep a handful set to fire on exactly S2 craft (fighters) if you are making the call that most fighters will carry jammers

noble zodiac
wet root
#

Bumping it to 0.1775 would probably be simplest

supple sonnetBOT
#

Hey, do wake sensors pick up small craft?

#

Answer: Yes. Yes they do.

runic torrent
#

nebulous woke confirmed

noble zodiac
#

always has been

dark dawn
open plank
#

So back shots only?

dark dawn
#

...
Yes

wicked mirage
#

Hey guys! I got good-ish news, I have weekends off now! But my DnD campaign is starting a few hours later now since we don't have to get up super early for my sake so I can play and also get to work anymore. So! I can probably show up to Boat Night about 2-3 hours after the current start time if it's still going ^^

mint sinew
#

I'm out for the next few weeks unfortunately due to life so we'll be trading out

wet root
#

#1164000873031151637 message

wicked mirage
wet root
#

Works out perfectly!

wet root
#

Main is up-to-date with Test now, right?

sharp crow
#

yep

runic torrent
#

<@&942093958551588904> channels oopen

junior heron
#

Boat Night!

sharp crow
#

will be there shortly

quiet quiver
#

Yes that is in the thumbnail

quiet quiver
#

Finished the vid, and holy shit

junior heron
# quiet quiver

it would have been very funny if the everyone ping worked because you're a mod, and then the neb thread had 50,000 people in it

#

regardless, I'm excited to watch this but can't for another hour :(

mint sinew
# quiet quiver

This is some really cool work, I look forward to seeing what can be done with it

junior heron
#

ah, starting the vid
||time to suggest the mk 620 double-beam for the c6||

mint sinew
junior heron
rigid bison
misty storm
noble zodiac
mint sinew
glad aurora
#

What's OSP going to do, AI me to death?

#

SP should be wacky

oak shell
#

Campaign mode is a lot more ambitious than I expected

wary flame
#

that thing is so ugly, my god

#

I appreciate the Sevastopol-style flagship but wow, the terrible prototype conversion aesthetic is definitely coming through

#

I'm hoping that OSP gets a giant stupid flagship if and when they get a campaign, I want to see the Containerest Liner

#

Squarer

mint sinew
#

OSP flagship is just a whole station with drives attached

low pier
#

Mobile dry dock turned warship

low pier
quiet quiver
#

The OSP flagship might be one of the BBs the Worden-class CVs were converted from

mint sinew
#

That would be sensible. I want to strap 4 maruaders to a moorline to assemble voltron

quiet quiver
#

But also, that CV sure has big Lexington-class energy

noble zodiac
tulip vault
#

I'll admit I'm still pretty sour on singleplayer, but this does look nice

#

the flagship looks horrid I love it

bitter furnace
olive blade
#

27 monitors in a 3x3 cube flagship

glad aurora
#

Didn't Lys - no, that was in tester chat

#

I will say, very excited for that, but with how stringent she was about spoilers in the devlog I wouldn't post about it in public

sharp crow
sharp crow
#

the carrier flagship basically having the joke infinity side VLS of the container liner if you turn faction limits off is very funny also

junior heron
glad aurora
#

yep

bitter furnace
#

Yeah, so way back when there was a publicly available Lore Document, it had a section that seemed like it was the lead up to the campaign. ||It mentioned that the OSP has a museum dreadnought, Strong The Root Beneath, in orbit over Pyxis. And that when the rebellion started, the OSPN immediately set about returning it to service. Importantly, Marshall later confirmed in the nebcord IIRC that the main menu cutscene is non canon, and the STRB isn’t a Solomon-class but rather an indigenous OSP design from before the Alliance Navy was standardized.|| If there’s going to be a special final boss for the campaign, that’s what I’d put my bet on. However, other things in the lore doc didn’t pan out, such as the player starting ship being a Raines-class called the ANS Swift Toxin, so plans could have definitely changed

junior heron
#

right, Swift Toxin was the other badge/something design, right?
how'd those end up btw?

bitter furnace
#

weren't many good submissions so it didn't happen

junior heron
#

ah, oh well

quiet quiver
#

Concept art from Papapanda

wicked mirage
#

Can we put a Beam Turret on the funny Supercarrier?

glad aurora
#

Yeah

#

Will you be able to? No, because Lys is designing all of them herself

#

You'll take your 288 VLS tubes of mostly SDMs and like it

rigid bison
#

(The remainder are all basic thunderheads)

glad aurora
#

nah, she said S2H, so those'll probably be act/[arad] shuttle bonkers

quiet quiver
#

I guess you'll be able to do custom fits for it in custom campaigns

junior heron
#

I should be allowed to use a Worden if I'm playing a 12k

quiet quiver
#

I'm confident there'll be mods to unlock the campaign ships for skirmish

junior heron
#

hmm

#

is there a mod to add the conquest ships?

#

the logistics ones

quiet quiver
#

There isn't, but people were told not to extract the assets from the conquest build

junior heron
#

ah

quiet quiver
#

But I think they are technically available in the conquest build fleet editor

#

Because you need to use the fleet editor to make ship variants for playing conquest

wet root
#

Finally watching the video, I adore this flagship

#

It sounds unlikely, but I do hope that as you acquire ships and supplies you can adjust the loadout at least somewhat

#

Swap out some missiles, tweak the craft setups, swap guns for jammers, etc

wet root
mint sinew
wet root
#

I wonder if the entities can be terrain, and if so if they get the pathing nodes and whatnot generated - if so, that means it's basically a map editor as well, just import a bunch of rocks as entities

rigid bison
#

I kinda want to see the Worden and Hero Carrier get added as Skrirmish ships that can't really fit into 3k, as a way to start making 6k a thing

oak shell
#

The BSG reboot really sold me on the "mothballed supercarrier pulled out of retirement due to desperate circumstances" hero ship

wicked mirage
#

EO + BSSJ Cruise HEKP

#

SAH/[EO] Cork Copperhead Derivatives to juke AMM's.

#

It's gonna be 288 tubes and a Flagship full of horrible monsters for me xD

#

"The OSP blew a hole in my Sprinter so I took my nose flashlight Spamto Wing and skissued them into filing their taxes." 🧛 grandpa

glad aurora
#

I'm not sure if the campaign's going to let you do that, yeah.

#

Lys specifically mentioned that she can't even guarantee people do the tutorial before opening it.

wicked mirage
#

Lol

#

I see, then we shall see!

quiet quiver
#

I think the conceit is not having access to drydock facilities so you can't do refits, but deciding on what tubes your missile restock goes in might be another story

sharp crow
#

I will unfortunately not make it to this week's boat night, as a heads up

wicked mirage
sharp crow
#

last minute change in a friend's birthday plans

#

I may be home on time for a second or third game but I'm not counting on it

quiet quiver
#

Hey, go hang with your friend. It's cool

wicked mirage
olive blade
#

have a good circle!

sharp crow
#

yeah I will

#

I'm more saying that since boat night is quite late EU times now I may still be home around the later game times

wicked mirage
#

This always happens lol

#

I should proly swap the location of the DCX and the Mag

junior heron
#

RIP

#

how'd the game go btw?

#

I alt+f4-ed to show my friend Battle Aces

olive blade
#

hate that

junior heron
#

yeah, that's the problem with the spinship too

mint sinew
#

Every time this happens I get tempted to drop the storage to hide the mag in the bow. Then I try it and regret it immediately

junior heron
#

nowhere is safe
this is why there should be beams on lineships

wicked mirage
#

Did 28k damage with my Pumpkin RubyCheer

wicked mirage
topaz jolt
#

Gosh you're running out of ammo with a huge component Reinforced Mag. How much ammo are you using a minute in that?

warm gulch
#

i assume 0, because the magazine itself is broken

#

unrelated, but: excited for the campaign stuff now i've been hearing more on it. might get me back into the game again, even without the customisation stuff

#

i think designing it all in an in-game editor is a smart move

warm gulch
#

i used to be able to sit down and just design ships for fun but now i really do just kinda get analysis paralysis now i can't remember how anything in the game works really

#

so honestly the idea of prebuilt stuff, especially for ANS which i don't really click with, is nice

sharp crow
#

the starter fleets do exist and are totally fine

warm gulch
#

i believe that but i always default to the same like. 3.

#

definitely a me thing

wicked mirage
# topaz jolt Gosh you're running out of ammo with a huge component Reinforced Mag. How much a...

I can bring enough ammo with a big Reinforced Mag, I was just saying the Citadel Mag is hard to use effectively. Because of opportunity cost and how limited it is despite its high DT, I've only really found it be useful on Monitors (where it is actually very good for everything except missiles) and on budget Liners of around 1000 points or less that appreciate the extra tankiness for no cost and don't really put anything in there besides some bullets.

#

The Citadel Mag also really only has its high DT going for it. It sports 300 HP versus the Reinforced Mag's 150 HP which is good but for how big the compartment needs to be means it's going to eat a lot damage anyway most likely and the Citadel Mag can still get redded out in as a little as a single salvo of 450 from a BB if you get unlucky and eat all the bullets there. For comparison the DCX has a whopping 600 HP and can take a wallop before going red from 450 regardless of luck.

#

The very high DT does make it good on Bulkers that don't have a ton of restores and don't mind the limited capacity though.

#

Generally speaking, in my fully built out LN's I tend to go for double regular Reinforced Mag in the smaller compartments in an LN since additional mags are cheaper now after the patch a while ago, and use the big slots for a DCX and a pair of Large Storages.

mint sinew
#

I feel that's largely a consequence of 450mm liners. 250mm liners (without craft/tals loads) can fit comfortably in a cit mag and the DT is appreciated

wicked mirage
#

Ah, yeah that makes sense. I don't really use 250 LN's myself

mint sinew
#

When I was messing around with bowtanking liners a cit mag in the nose and an rmag in the core worked really well

wicked mirage
#

For sure, that's a situation where you get a lot of use out of the DT and it's not the end of the world if it bites it too.

#

Versus a DCX to where as tanky as it is you really really don't want it to be bowtanking 450 and whatnot in an LN xD cuz if it gets greyed that's very bad news usually.

#

Speaking of DCX's though, I've started enjoying running double DCX in some builds. It's expensive sure but not outrageous depending on the build. It can help in protracted duels against capitals and whatnot. Plus if you add it up, 2 DCX's, a Large Storage, and 2 Large DC's is 13 teams and 12 restores on top of an Axford level repair cap and buffed DC teams.

#

Which is really nuts lol.

#

Cost wise you can get a pair of 450 LN's all decked out with Ammo Elevators and RCC's like that for about 1200-1300 a pop which still leaves you room for an EWR+LRT Radar Tug to get them tracks.

mint sinew
wicked mirage
#

Btw, 13 teams and 12 restores means you only get 1 GPC unless you go single regular R-Mag which runs the risk of running out of ammo just like a single Citadel Mag. So, it's usually best to go double R-Mag and use such LN's to fight in medium ranges of below 9km rather than try to land shots at 10km+. If you wanna make a 450 LN that's better at long range, drop a Large DC and take a 2nd GPC which still nets you 10 teams and 10 restores with the same high repair cap.

#

Both versions use a Citadel CIC btw, I only recommend using Reinforced CIC's in LN's if you're giving them 2 CIC's.

#

Oh, and one last note for LN durability, I always always put a Light Reactor in LN's on the opposite side of the hull far away from the regular reactor even if I don't need the power. LN big reactors are notorious for getting randomly shot out and a single Light Reactor can run all your guns still if not much else.

#

It makes a world of difference trust me.

runic torrent
#

late boat night again today guys?

#

when do yo uwant me to open the channels

#

oh lol they're already open. well. i'll just leave them like that for now

#

i'll close them when you guys are done

junior heron
#

lol

#

yeah, it seems like the later boat night kind of works out

#

no Thijs today unfortunately, but we've been getting a game with Till in occasionally

junior heron
#

<@&942093958551588904> boat time!

rigid bison
#

anyone still down for boats?

wet root
#

I'm running very very late today, so I likely won't make it

oak shell
#

I'm still away from Good Screen. I'll be back next week!

wicked mirage
#

<@&942093958551588904> Heya, I'm around for a game of boats if anyone is still available?

errant crow
#

im nebulously around

wicked mirage
#

I gotta eat dinner but afterwards I can probably play one

errant crow
#

hey sorry pyrope but if lets say thats in 30+ minutes i will no longer be around (my laptop)

olive blade
#

I stayed up late updating my fleets and getting everything ready

#

woke up for it, we had moved it late for me oh nice more sleep

#

didn't wake up the second time lmao

junior heron
#

oof

quiet quiver
#

I didn't get a good night's sleep after some relationship stuff and wound up napping at 5 PM

junior heron
#

:( hope everything okay, or at least been resolved

quiet quiver
#

Yeah for the most part

wicked mirage
#

I'm on but it's proly too late

wicked mirage
olive blade
#

hah I wish but I have people coming to my apartment in an hour to play ttrpgs and I have to clean it

#

no rest for the weary me I say after resting for way too long

#

my life is so hard I say cleaning up the mess I made

wicked mirage
wet root
#

Sounds like this week was just an unfortunate confluence, hopefully boats will exist more next week

#

I should be around, at least

olive blade
#

yeah

#

and my ships will work

#

no more looking at my plane loadouts and going fuck I swear I fixed that

sharp crow
#

I got home at midnight and went straight to bed

topaz jolt
#

Hopefully you people had fun with Nebulous last night. Sorry I'm away until Tuesday.

olive blade
#

do rocket and bomb cudas still get sprinters kinda the same

#

or has the nerf really hit them

wet root
#

I think they're exactly as effective as they were before in a vacuum - you wouldn't hit a functional Sprinter with bombs unless you rocketed them first anyway, and R1s and 2s were unchanged - but functionally they might be a bit more resistant due to Rebounds being more popular?

#

Though being able to bring S1s that OHKO craft might be relevant

wicked mirage
#

I'm a fan of S2 Cudas. They're more expensive than Rocket/Bomb loadouts but the craft aren't exposed to nearly as much danger especially if you do Stand-Off.

#

And no one puts a Discoball on a Sprinter lol

wary flame
#

yeah I have been rocking S2 cudas since before the carrier update dropped

#

they're still great

#

although I am still trying to finesse SAH frag S1 + Sah[Wake] S2s, the nose illum cone is a bit tricky to work with

wicked mirage
#

Or just had the larger wing have nose guns and rely entirely on the supporting wing of Standoff Illum Cudas?

wary flame
#

my wings are normally 4 cudas, so splitting them even further is a little painful

#

but worst case scenario I just load Act frag missiles and use them to get the bare minimum of air-to-air capability

runic torrent
#

everything is in a vacuum

errant crow
#

i thought it was in a nebula

tulip vault
#

It’s actually in liquid titanium

wicked mirage
#

It's in my backyard

wet root
#

What is it, Tom Scott?

wicked mirage
#

Yes

noble zodiac
#

tom scott intro but its "im in hit space strategy game Nebulous Fleet Command"

#

or something

errant crow
#

"I'm on the Pillars asteroid, Solomon system"

oak shell
#

When is boat night?

runic torrent
#

that's what @sharp crow told me

#

⛵

sharp crow
#

yeah that's the new accepted normal starting time

#

that works for the most amount of people

wet root
#

We should probably pin the new time

junior heron
#

speaking of the new time

topaz jolt
#

Little boop

junior heron
#

<@&942093958551588904> boat night!

sharp crow
#

@runic torrent can you open for us

#

guess we're out of luck

runic torrent
#

!

topaz jolt
#

She just saw!

runic torrent
#

Done, sorry

#

I lost track of the tiiime