Nebulous: Fleet Command

[wary flame]

which, again, is necessary against the number of missiles slung at them at that point

[glad aurora]

yeah, the number of missiles grew out of we're going to lose the air war no matter what so just staple 1000pts of SDMs to every team I guess

ideally now that the Tanto isn't fish food the SDM pickets can be yanked down somewhat

[wary flame]

without it you just get "whoops, got within 10km of an invisible frigate or a battleship, guess I die"

[glad aurora]

(we also know how to yank down SDM pickets: VLS defensive missile refire time)

[rigid bison]

so we on PTB or mainulous for today?

[mint sinew]

#1164000873031151637 message the early vote was tied, so I'd assume mainulous for numbers, but we can check who actually turns up for game 1

[junior heron]

@runic torrent @quiet quiver poke for boat night channels

[runic torrent]

Done!

Sorry sorry

Love you guys!

[junior heron]

<@&942093958551588904> boat time!

[wary flame]

alas I am cursed by sleep

[junior heron]

if you join I will cast a spell to break your curse

[olive blade]

I think broadly that there needed to be some changes but these specific ones and the fact that its multiple changes to the same dynamics all in the same direction are bad

and this seems to happen a lot in neb, something needs a nerf and it gets like 4 different huge nerfs plus the thing that counters it gets like 2 buffs

[warm gulch]

no dial wiggling, always have to slam the lever

[junior heron]

you don't dramatically cut ot a shot of the pilot slowly turning a dial

you cut to them slamming that lever forward

full power

[wet root]

@olive blade (we still can't hear you)

[sharp crow]

we're playing on main today btw

[topaz jolt]

Gosh. I only just woke up.

[mint sinew]

fortunately we are about to wrangle game 2 if you are swift

[topaz jolt]

Aaaah

It will take me like 5 minutes to finish loading. I hope.

[mint sinew]

That's fine, we'll wait

[topaz jolt]

Aaaah. It's okay if you don't wait tooo.

[junior heron]

you bring this up to a 3v4, which is enough for me to bring a 6k

[topaz jolt]

Eeeps

I will have to quickly checks my fleets to see if they are the same points, since the Carrier update.

[mint sinew]

The starters are always good too

[topaz jolt]

I'll likely just use on of the fleets I have.

[wet root]

Personally I don't mind if the points are a bit over 3k if it's just from updates changing prices

[topaz jolt]

Oh decoys were changed.

[wet root]

An Absolute Mess

[mint sinew]

Most readable tactical display

[winter spade]

Welcome to the carrier update

[junior heron]

<@&942093958551588904> anyone want to stack a pub game?

[sharp crow]

I will play

[mint sinew]

Be with you in 5

[oak shell]

augh I have TI in 15 minutes

[sharp crow]

really feel like I still don't understand fighter behaviour in the slightest

2x 6 tantos engage 10 cudas, they fire a couple SDMs and then just don't shoot their guns and lose anyway

[wet root]

From what I've heard, them not firing might have to do with craft going into evasive maneuvers when missiles are inbound

[glad aurora]

that's correct

you can be forced into an evade state by gun FCRs or missile locks

[oak shell]

ooh, where's this from?

[deft current]

Idk one shared it in a non Neb server without source

[oak shell]

ty

[misty storm]

oh god

neb shibgirls

suprised it took people this long to do it

[quiet quiver]

Not the first one

[noble zodiac]

oh trust me there've been neb shipgirls abouts for ages

[misty storm]

i see

[wicked mirage]

Has anyone tried using the new Coilgun? Is it as awesome as I'm thinking?

[oak shell]

I tried it in the last boat night. I couldn't tell if it was effective.

[mint sinew]

I think she means the test branch. From the testing I've seen it's cracked unless you can evasion lock the coiltantos with ACMs

(which means it's very good)

[misty storm]

Ah, i see we are solidly back in OSP Can't Have Anything Nice territory /j

[wicked mirage]

[misty storm]

this is very /j, the only thing i feel like was overdone (in my very uneducated opinion) was the flechette points hike

[sharp crow]

yeah we played main branch last weekend so haven't tried it yet

the test branch buff looks very significant though

[astral pumice]

what's the change?

[wet root]

#1164000873031151637 message

[olive blade]

I think it really is a bit harsh

[glad aurora]

@wary flame 35mm gun pod 2 spaces, flechette cost reverted, you're saved

Craft will now properly engage threats to other craft they are guarding.

this is also huge

no more manual anti-breadstick escort micro (and a huge improvement to the performance of AI carriers)

[quiet quiver]

Also the "all nose gun range envelopes" is that all craft guns have a 300m minimum range now so evasion can stay relevant

[azure lake]

These look great

[misty storm]

good shit

[dark dawn]

Welp
RIP Barracudas
(Probably not, I imagine they'll still wreck Tantos with little issue)

[misty storm]

yeah

you just gotta commit a bit harder to have flechette pods

[dark dawn]

It does make the Barracuda Loadout far less solved (since right now they're all the same)

[misty storm]

instead of taking them on every loadout

exactly

diversity good

[dark dawn]

I'm not sure if I'd ditch the fuel tanks or the jampods for it
Or the missiles and actually party like it's 1955

I do greatly appreciate the escort AI improvements though, it'll be so much less of a headache to get value out of just
Right clicking a friendly fleet with some jets and having them blow up bombers while you can micro your strike packages.

Though if R-3s stay overpriced and slow I feel like the OSP might start kind of struggling with air power

[tulip vault]

What did 600mm do to deserve this

[quiet quiver]

You can't take gunpod and jampod any more, they have specific slots

[quiet quiver]

Deleted entire wings of fighters with no warning, mostly

[sharp crow]

tantos got a big AI buff too apparently

[wary flame]

hopefully that's not "Tantos get to have the good AI as a factional advantage" because that sounds infuriating, but I'm down for the rest as long as flechette can still reasonably engage SDMs

never mind, flechette now cannot engage SDMs

[azure lake]

The flechette radius got a big nerf

[wary flame]

and in fact will lose to tantos in anything approaching an even fight

time to get the SDM tugs out because ANS can now wipe everything with SDM batteries so OSP should probably do it back

[azure lake]

I think a nerf was warranted but wow that's a lot

From 3.3 to 1

That's huge

[tulip vault]

Something something ‘OSP can’t be good because they’re the bad faction in lore’

I have hope though given the last test branch wasn’t immediately pushed to main

[sharp crow]

I think it is meant to be a factional advantage which is pretty miserable

[wary flame]

playing with the stats on the planes, fair enough, but "your AI has been factionally designated to be stupid, micro the hell out of everything you pleb" sounds awful

[tulip vault]

That is very obnoxious

[sharp crow]

#943416769660452904 message judging by this post in particular

but yeah time to fit VLS2s on every ocello

[azure lake]

I don't like the AI changes

[sharp crow]

it just seems bad on principle. especially with dogfights already being pretty opaque in terms of figuring out why your planes are losing

but maybe testing reveals that the gameplay impact isn't too much

[wary flame]

hopefully coilgun can't just deadeye SDM-2s and you can actually kill the now-swole tantos with TALS

[quiet quiver]

AFAIK the Tanto/Cuda AI difference is specifically just wingmanning

[wary flame]

previously there was basically no point firing SDMs at them because they were much better at killing them than even flechette cudas

[dark dawn]

You know, OSP carrier gameplay was easily the most fun I've ever had in Nebulous since its release and uhh
It ain't looking so good for them on the test server

[sharp crow]

well, should probably see it in action before drawing final conclusions

[sharp crow]

<@&942093958551588904> new test branch update with some significant changes. we have more lead time this time so the question for everyone: next boat night, main or test?

[glad aurora]

Can you forward this message for non-balcon users

[mint sinew]

Lys' original post about the wingman behaviour

[glad aurora]

Huh. Yep, that is for sure 100% intended better AI for AN.

[glad aurora]

unlike flechette cudas, draining coilgun ammo did actually mean something for their success and longevity, but eh

[mint sinew]

It is, but I don't think that's a fundamental problem. Especially if it's just one set of behaviour changes (ANS fights with a wingman) rather than all new craft AI improves go to ANS

[bitter furnace]

I don't like it either but tbh I'm more fine with AN getting a training advantage than them getting a spaceframe advantage. Where I take issue is if the training completely overturns the Tanto being a worse fighter. That to me is inviolable

[tulip vault]

man. I mean this is cool but also dang if I wouldn't like OSP to just get to stay good at something

at least they haven't taken my hammerheads from me

[mint sinew]

I am hopeful that they will stay good at it, just not dominant

[wary flame]

I would far rather nerf the actual plane and give the OSP the good AI, because this just cements the OSP as Horde of Shitty TIE Fighters

[glad aurora]

the unfortunate consequence of the way OSP is structured means that them being "good at something" usually ends up as "spam 30 billion of this and win forever"

[wary flame]

"my plane is a bit worse but we have the superior hero pilots" is the standard protagonist faction setup

[glad aurora]

it was especially egregious on carriers release but now the gap is narrowing somewhat

[sharp crow]

gotta figure out how to mod nebulous so I can attach the tie fighter engine noise to cudas

[tulip vault]

I mean ANS still get to have dominant EWAR and missiles, I think OSP deserves something like that

but yknow, it is what it is

[glad aurora]

OSP has omnisoftkill, AN doesn't have unguided primary strike munitions

"dominant missiles" is... well, the missiles just aren't very good if you're playing against someone who knows how to beat them

[wary flame]

I feel this has the obvious knock-on effect of "every ANS flaw is a minor procurement issue, OSP is permanently locked into sucking becuase they aren't a Real Navy"

[glad aurora]

meanwhile you don't really beat OSP craft, you just throw SDMs at them until they run out of planes or soak R3 damage on your Superior Capital Damagetanking until you can't anymore and die

a faction of hard counters turns "being good at something" or "being bad at something" into wild extremes

[bitter furnace]

I don't think that's accurate because I thought in star wars the TIE Fighter is worse and the X-Wing is better. The performance of the craft is what makes the impression IMO

usually the protagonist faction has the better but less numerous stuff. Not worse and better trained

[wary flame]

in Star Wars the Rebellion also gets the hero pilots, because they're the heroes

but "I am defeating your infinite pile of better tech and money with raw skill" is very rarely the stance of the bad guys

unless it's Honor Harrington

[sharp crow]

if the AI upgrade makes them win dogfights, are tantos really meaningfully worse aircraft than cudas

[wary flame]

where the bad guys lose anyway but somehow manage to seem way less obnoxious than the protagonists because they are so hilariously out-teched

[wet root]

36x nerf, whoof

Or 11x I suppose, since cross-section matters more than volume

[sharp crow]

really though I can barely parse the hows and whys of dogfight results as it is so I'm excited to see this in action saturday

[glad aurora]

flechette performance was probably over-nerfed, but oh well, this is what PTB exists for

[dark dawn]

I should not have gone into balcon

[wet root]

Always true

[dark dawn]

I read the words "The ANS finally get something nice"
And I'm like
The fuck you mean "Finally"

[mint sinew]

That's my assumption too. Let's see it get some test world use and see how it goes

[sharp crow]

wonder if we're going to have to mix in AMM cudas the way ANS wants to mix guntos and coiltos

[wet root]

While the bombshell nerf against craft is probably warranted I wish it didn't affect its performance against missiles, because being able to clean up half a salvo was a very cool very niche thing

But I'm guessing since craft are technically missiles there wasn't an easy way to only reduce the effectiveness vs craft and not missiles

[wary flame]

AMM craft are basically worthless at killing any kind of SDM, it's one of the reasons I was so against major flechette nerfs

they maybe get one or two, regardless of how many AMMs you have in your wing

[sharp crow]

hmm fair enough

[glad aurora]

you theoretically could change it to only work against missiles instead of missiles and craft, but this feels hacky and I'm glad you can no longer just be immune in the front arc to either as a MN swarm

[wet root]

I never really saw their ability to kill missiles as being problematic, since it was such a narrow angle, but yeah, would be weird if they didn't hit craft at all

[olive blade]

I'd really like to see what the win loss stats are at various levels

for factions

[misty storm]

@late cedar

[late cedar]

I am here

[late cedar]

<@&942093958551588904> anyone alive willing to do a few skirmish games against AI?

[dark dawn]

o/

[late cedar]

Nice

[dark dawn]

I'd prefer OSP but I'd mostly just like to shake off the rust

[late cedar]

OSP?

[violet root]

Operation Solstice Pain

[topaz jolt]

Hii hi there. I could. But I have no idea which branch. Also my computer can barely run the game/

[bitter furnace]

Common abbreviation for the Protectorate, one of the game’s two factions

I am about to sleep and unfortunately cannot halp

[topaz jolt]

Oh I just saw you were both in voice chat.

I'm super blind.

[topaz jolt]

Okayy. I'm at my computer now.

[late cedar]

Oof

Sry, skirmishes ended already

[topaz jolt]

Oh that's okayy.

[late cedar]

I'm mostly now just gonna stare at my screen wondering "How the hell did my Nebulous commanding get this bad???"

[topaz jolt]

I mean. I only have 1 OSP fleet that has the firepower to even take down a single Ashford.

[late cedar]

Axfords are payne

They take so much firepower to mission kill

[topaz jolt]

My Occello can hardly touch one, if it's frontal on.

Yet they can fully squish my very tanky Occello if I don't move away.

I wish the Occello had like a +5cm armour buff, or 5% bonus component DR.

[late cedar]

Yeaaaah

Only thing that can even contend is a Marauder broadside

Even then that gives the Axford a juicy target

[dark dawn]

That's what carriers are for now I'm afraid

[topaz jolt]

Monitor Peta blog. I think it's called. Is STUPIDLY more effective than an Occello.

[dark dawn]

The OSP has one good option against capitals and admittedly it's a really good one

[dark dawn]

Pentablock

As in five of them

[topaz jolt]

How much armour and component DR does an Ashford get again?

The Ocello gets 30cm and 40% component DR. The Hull costs 575 points.

I found it

The Ashford gets 40cm and 40% component DR. The Hull costs 600 points.

[late cedar]

Tbf, it looks like the Ocello is an outdated Axford it looks like

[topaz jolt]

It also gets MUCH better armour slopping.

[late cedar]

Definitely looks like the Axford replaced the Ocello in-verse going by Ocello's stuff

[topaz jolt]

I wish I was better at modding Nebulous to make my own ship.

[dark dawn]

That is correct

[topaz jolt]

I think this is the most effect my ANS fleet has been.

And this I think is the most effective my OSP fleet has been.

[topaz jolt]

is Ashford was taking the fire of like 3 fleets for several minutes btw.

[dark dawn]

Sounds about Axford

This is why I play Carriers

[topaz jolt]

I've not modified any of my fleets since the Carrier update came out.

Other than replacing the Decoys for 2 of the fleets. As they can't be in size 1 missile launchers now.

Oh that Ashford was Structured before it really started to take damage.

I physically and mentally can't play Carriers myself. I got exhausted just learning how to launch the fighters.

[dark dawn]

Well lucky for you they're all I play now because they're legitimately more fun than any ship on the Protectorate side

And I'm still theorycrafting ANS carrier fleets

[topaz jolt]

I really like how good my OSP fleet is at capping. Or fighting Sprinters.

They are likely not amazing. But I really like them.

[dark dawn]

Capfleets are important

Though I'm not sure how exactly you can play a capfleet but not manage carriers

[topaz jolt]

Again. I've not made a fleet since the Carrier update.

And I've only played 1 game versus AI. And 1 player versus player.

[topaz jolt]

This is a dumb idea.

The Ocello getting these following buffs:
Point cost reduction to 550 from 575.
Armour increased to 35cm from 30cm.
Powerplant Efficiency increased to +15% from +10%.
Add a 4x1x6 Compartment between Module 6 and Compartment 2.

Or even just the Hull cost reduction and the added extra Compartment?

[noble zodiac]

ok so here’s the thing

the ocello is not supposed to compete with an axford in a direct firefight

the ocello’s value comes not from firepower or durability but from unique capability

[supple sonnet]

Oh hi Gamma.

[noble zodiac]

because unlike the rest of the OSP’s roster, it gets to take AN equipment
and AN has better internal radars, better illumination, better antihybrid point defense, and probably other things im forgetting

[noble zodiac]

hiii

[noble zodiac]

the rest of OSP’s roster is largely superior to the ocello and loosely comparable to the axford on both durability and firepower

but the ocello brings capabilities that the rest of OSP cannot bring

and so it costs a relative preium to bring because OSP already has other strengths

[quiet quiver]

And honestly it's got pretty good sustained firepower

But sustained firepower means it has to be on target the whole time, unlike 450 bulkers

[noble zodiac]

takes off game-design-theory hat
what this translates to in practice is that you don’t take an ocello to win a gunfight, you take it for bullseye, parallax, auroras, sarissas, and/or sometimes illuminators

and then you bring other ships to form an actual gunline for the ocello’s support kit to support

1-2 marauders
2-4 flatheads

dual ocello does work, you just have to split them to cover two groups and basically commit to playing support for your team

ocello + journeyman does work, but in a similar way - you play the ocello to support your gunline while the journeyman support your cappers and maybe nukes an axford idk

ocello + tugs/shuttles does work, thats a bog standard halfcap archetype - you operate the tugs and shuttles as a capfleet while the oce backs up the gunline

[supple sonnet]

The Ocello's job is to be like, an unholy alliance of technology, right?

[noble zodiac]

basically yeah

[supple sonnet]

I have remembered my utterly cursed twin Ocello fleet. It's rockets Ocellos.

[noble zodiac]

https://tenor.com/view/rwby-rwby-ruby-rose-rwby-ruby-shocked-rwby-ruby-surprised-rwby-volume8-gif-25312872

can confirm that is cursed

but also hilarious

[supple sonnet]

I believe it is.. This one.

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Rock'em Sock'em' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Rock'em : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Rocket PD Sensor]
Sock'em : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Rocket PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-101 Rondel : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [1pts]

[noble zodiac]

nahhhhh not tha EWR ocello 💀 💀 💀

BULK MAGAZINE

i love this

[supple sonnet]

They're both EWR rocket Ocellos. They're duplicates.

[noble zodiac]

ik

[supple sonnet]

I believe they're so weird because they're a variant of this fleet.

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Triple-M's Revenge' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

    Katy : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Missile PD]
Rasputin : 'Draugr' class Clipper [PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
   SGM-101 Rondel : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
SGM-205 Talwar IV : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/HOJ(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [5pts]

[noble zodiac]

S2 ocello

huh

[supple sonnet]

Yeah! Blame.. Damnit they're not here, but Rorsten if you know him.

[noble zodiac]

i do know him yeah!
not very well tho but ive heard of

[supple sonnet]

Yeah. Blame Rorsten.

I know him through Kathy who knows him through his volunteer work for FtD.

[late cedar]

That is what I personally thought so too when I saw its possible loadout.

[supple sonnet]

I should practice more for a rematch.

[late cedar]

It's not necessarily a Ship-Of-The-Line. It's a Flagship, a Command Cruiser if you will.

[noble zodiac]

yeah

[late cedar]

Was thinking after getting a few more skirmishes against AI/Players under my belt. I'd build an OSP fleet of an Ocello and two Marauders

Oh oof

Why reply

Oh, it didn't send my first message. Rip the Discord. I asked if that FtD was From the Depths : p

[supple sonnet]

Yes, FtD is From the Depths.

[sharp crow]

between carrier spotters and warblers existing I think the ocello is less mandatory than ever but they're still really nice

[supple sonnet]

What's a Warbler?

[sharp crow]

new comms jammer

that any osp ship can take, so you're no longer reliant on the ocello golfball to stop cmd missiles

[supple sonnet]

Ouh!

[late cedar]

Ah hell yeah. The game that requires a degree in nautical engineering and weapons design to beat the campaign. XD

10/10 would die to the Scarlet Dawn again.

[supple sonnet]

Yeah. One of my GFs is actually a dev for that game, she's the localisation dev.

She very much has a self.. Self-sustaining job, heheheheh. The other devs keep breaking localisation.

[late cedar]

Oof

[noble zodiac]

tbf there are ways to design missiles to be resistant to warbler that dont work vs interrupt

afaik

so ocello still has value

[late cedar]

Redundancies are always nice tho

Have to be fair

[wet root]

@wary flame you mentioned a hybrid design for shooting down skiffs you were working on, did you finish that? Is there an export model?

[wary flame]

first test went wildly wrong due to incredibly overenthusiatic leading, I can check it out tomorrow

I know the fix I just never got around to implementing it

[wet root]

That reminds me I need to do more testing of missiles against idling craft, it seems like they might target the center point the craft circle around when they're in the idle orbit

[glad aurora]

@wet root

on PTB, fire two = dead skiff in 99% of cases

[wet root]

Whoof, 24 points per salvo

Probably still worth it, but ouch

Wonder if it's possible to get a big enough warhead in an S3H to make it a guaranteed 1shot

[glad aurora]

24pts is a positive trade vs an AdvR skiff

you can also get away with 12 but sometimes it won't fuse correctly, thus the "on PTB" (where 50% damage works)

[wet root]

Even vs a normal skiff it's a good deal

[glad aurora]

Ayup

[wet root]

But if I can get a cheaper S3H it's even better

[glad aurora]

honestly, doubt it

[wet root]

Depends on how many other missiles I'm sticking on this frig though

[glad aurora]

S2H means you can bring a utility VLS - so cruise missiles, ADs, killjoys, anti-skiff missiles

VLS-3 is... some hyperspecialized anti-skiff missiles and that's all you have slots for

[wet root]

Well, I'll probably only bring a couple anti-skiff missiles, so it might let me bring a couple salvos of cruise S3H, but it'll depend on the points

If I have the leeway a full VLS-2 is preferable

Just costly

[wet root]

Me, 30 minutes ago:
"I bet I can fit a cheap Moorline in with some cappers"

Me, now:
"Huh."

(Also, wow, Moorlines arm craft slow)

(Or more accurately OSP craft take a long time to arm)

[open plank]

How you get tags

[wet root]

Tags?

[open plank]

Like for @ Nebulous: Fleet Command

[wet root]

Oh, roles - go to #bot-stuff and do... ?rank Nebulous: Fleet Command, I think?

(Or the appropriate role for whatever you want to add)

[late cedar]

It's in the pinned comments in #bot-stuff I think

[rigid bison]

I had a bit of a showerthought: instead of making the tanto better, they should have given the ANS some kind of SDM-3, given their exclusive access to quick-fire S3s

[supple sonnet]

Or maybe the OSPN could just have all the good stuff in there one niche,

[tulip vault]

On main branch I have an ~1800 point moorline with a hammerhead

[topaz jolt]

Gosh. I found out my almost 50 point hybrids are useless against ships being screened by fighters screening before the staging range.

And it only takes 2 or 3 fighters to consistently destroy my hardened size 3 hybrids.

And all the fighters need is the 20mm guns. That actually makes me a little sad.

[glad aurora]

Correct, yes. Hybrids are in a bad spot and you need to use decoys, heavy jamming, and off-angle attacks to make them work.

[topaz jolt]

Well then. All my fleets are a little useless now then since the Carrier update then.

[glad aurora]

They're probably useless just for OSP having omnisoftkill now, if they had missiles.

And yes, I should expect everything you had to need to change after a major update.

[topaz jolt]

I only have one actual ANS fleet and it's that fleet.

I found my silly ANS fleet.

[lime jungle]

Fleet '3k Stary Night V2' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

     Vowel : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
Stary Form : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail Missile PD EWar]
```This fleet uses 5 different missile types:
```yaml
       SGM-107 Mini Lance : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [2pts]
       SGM-117 Tiny Lance : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [5pts]
SGM-119 Firewall EL+Range : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [6pts]
      SGM-H-307 SpellFire : DIRECT - CMD - HEKP [45pts]
        SGM-H-342 Sunbeam : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [28pts]

[topaz jolt]

And my OSP fleet.

[lime jungle]

Fleet '3k Fae Twilight' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

 Fionnghuala : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
  Verenestra : 'Flathead' class Monitor [PD Gun Sensor]
Little Nymph : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
Little Sylph : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
Little Dryad : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-107 Mini Lance : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [2pts]
SGM-117 Tiny Lance : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [5pts]
  SGM-119 Firewall : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [4pts]

[olive blade]

the AI for the like

optical ball scout thing

seems really weird

I'm not quite sure how to work it

it seems to be not detecting at full range and likes to fly in super close

I feel like I had it going before but idk I'm testing on the test branch and its all weird

it only seems to have 4.5km range now?

unless I'm not getting something

[olive blade]

oh I see its shift rightclick

I feel like rightclick used to just work for whatever reason

[mint sinew]

It might use the EO ball like an FCR for itself I guess

[olive blade]

nah I f ound it its just shift rightclick to designate not regular right click

[sharp crow]

the eyeball pike is so good

[sharp crow]

the vote is overwhelmingly in favour of testing branch for this week's boat night, so please have fleets ready for it

[wary flame]

#961733806052753479 message

Show Hidden Stats has been updated for carriers and now makes comparing craft loadouts far less irritating

(yes, I know I'm three days late on this)

[misty storm]

oh yeah uhhhh

what are the points differences to main?

[quiet quiver]

Currently, just the C65 casemate, but cuda loadouts will need changing for slot reasons

Oh wait and the R-3 Spearfish

[misty storm]

ok

what about ans?

[glad aurora]

claymore cheaper

[misty storm]

i see

[quiet quiver]

Forgot Claymore

[glad aurora]

everyone does

[sly glade]

Thinking of participating tonight, but once again I am short on non-starter fleets lmao

[tulip vault]

the starter fleets are quite good

[sly glade]

when I'm feeling creative during the week, I code until I get a headache, then I turn my brain off. There's never enough time to learn to design fleets and then actually do it

[junior heron]

simply do not learn to design fleets

just take bad ideas and make them a reality

[tulip vault]

[junior heron]

you're all in for it now

just you wait

[sly glade]

<@&942093958551588904> boat time, I think?

[runic torrent]

it is!

thanks alex

[sly glade]

someone claims the voice channels are usually higher up but I have no idea smh

[sharp crow]

I'm missing this one, you folks have fun

[junior heron]

heading out Tron?

[wicked mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/currently-at-work-im-okay-this-is-fine-okay-calm-gif-17038512

[wary flame]

"No, you come around the corner first!"

[tulip vault]

will dropkick dropkick dropkick or will dropkick dropkick dropkick

only time will tell

[mint sinew]

I was trying to come around the corner the whole time. Dagger was just glued to the rock

[junior heron]

@olive blade btw, did you notice the wingman AI change in your Tantos? I wasn't paying too close attention to the craft fighting, wondered if you saw it to any effect.

[olive blade]

I didn't notice unfortunately I'm usually too busy microing to watch the pretty dogfights

And I think most engagements were people getting jumped not pretty dogfights

Maybe misc saw more?

[wet root]

Mostly fighter vs SDM engagements as well, not many between fighters

[junior heron]

the one time I really watched one of my fighters, it felt like the network desync was causing it to jump around a lot

[mint sinew]

Yeah, my cudas were mostly getting smashed by overwhelming force or ship based SDMs

[olive blade]

yeah I feel I bounced some single cudas but mostly not groups or such

[sharp crow]

<@&942093958551588904> me and tom are gonna do some pubulous, would anyone like to join

[tulip vault]

im game

[junior heron]

@oak shell if you're saying anything we can't hear you

[oak shell]

Yeah I'm going to play

[junior heron]

got it

[oak shell]

Trying to figure out what is wrong with my mic

[junior heron]

so the plasma plus planes was a decent success

time to try the talismonitor next time

[sharp crow]

that one probably does better on testulous than on main

[junior heron]

probably

[oak shell]

Talismonitor?

[junior heron]

monitor with 4 talisman launchers

mostly as a SAM site

but also it's got some salvos of s2 that it can launch from the talisman

I think there's half of a real fleet attached to the talismonitor

[sharp crow]

a creature most dubious

[oak shell]

I like that actually

Though the hangar orientation is unfortunate

[mint sinew]

When looking at dedicated OSP Sam sites I keep wondering if keeping an MLS loaded with SDMs is worth it to just burst big waves

[oak shell]

It takes the flight path of the skiff directly over the braking engines

[sharp crow]

I just think it's funny that they get barfed out

[junior heron]

cursed knowledge: the Talisman needs programming channels, and OSP doesn't get the programming bus.
So if you want to maximize talisman launches, you gotta stuff that thing full of container datalinks

spending 600 points on trying to make a dumb decision even a little worthwhile

[mint sinew]

Do they still need channels for defensive launches?

[junior heron]

no

i don't think

i'm pretty sure i tested that

[mint sinew]

So it'd just be to get your backup offensives out

[junior heron]

yeah

I think actually mine has 2 datalinks

because I need a magazine to actually hold the missiles

[mint sinew]

For datalink prices can I interest you in the magic of "a spare MLS-2 tug"

[quiet quiver]

I think there's a point where you get 2 TALS and 2 MLS

[junior heron]

absolutely not

[mint sinew]

Understandable, have a nice day

[wicked mirage]

[junior heron]

until we get thruster plumes causing damage, and the raider can be given a +armor burn stat buff, this will not be a problem

[wet root]

Just warming up the engines

[olive blade]

extra launch thrust 😌

[deft current]

Are container datalink broken?

Stats say I have 10 channeles

But in game says one salvo is 8?

[mint sinew]

Can you share the fleet and/or screenshots? Hard to debug otherwise

[deft current]

Oh wait uhm…
I figured it out

I didn’t had enough power that’s why

I may be tired

[mint sinew]

That'd do it

[quiet quiver]

You’re not the first one to do this, those compartments are thirsty

[glad aurora]

holy shit

vauxhall PD arc buff

[mint sinew]

Was one of those classic programming moments when Lys realised that was the "Vauxhall PD blind spot" people had been going on about, not the rear arcs. For want of a single checkbox Vauxhalls have been suffering with what everyone assumed was an intentional design flaw

[glad aurora]

LMAO

[quiet quiver]

TBF, this isn't quite a "no one mentioned it", it got mentioned repeatedly, but there's only so much bal-con you can read so it got missed

[mint sinew]

I mean more nobody reported it as a bug

Easy to skim read complaints about pd arcs and not bother to check the arcs you think it has align with in-game

[quiet quiver]

It's one of those "working as coded" bugs, y'know?

[sharp crow]

praise be

[junior heron]

Her reason for not noticing is also quite funny.

[junior heron]

Patch Notes - 0.5.2.5:250213-0242
+PUBLIC TEST BRANCH+

Changes/Features:
The "redundant sensors" tip will no longer appear if two fire control sensors are mounted on a ship.
Added some additional new player fleet editor tips.

Bug Fixes:
Fixed "no ammo" warning appearing for SALS/TALS launchers even when valid missiles were in a magazine.
Fixed new player tips accordion being visible when tips are disabled through the settings menu.
Fixed icons of eliminated friendly ships not updating to gray until hovered of selected.
Fixed editor power warnings not being updated for unselected ships when pasting a fitting from another ship.
Fixed AI breaking when given a ship carrying craft which it can't launch.
Fixed "Add Missile Type" button in craft loadout matrix not showing any templates in some cases.
Fixed some filtered ammo selection lists having an initial selection even if it was filtered.

[deft current]

Say do 600mm bomb shells still do smh to fighter/bombers?

[oak shell]

On the test branch, the damage chance was changed from 50% to 5% ,iirc

[sharp crow]

correct

for missiles, also

[deft current]

My boy…

…look how they massacred my boy

[quiet quiver]

It says something that it's still not terrible to shoot bombshell at fighter wings

[night fable]

We're spending Valentine's Day in the Void! I'm hosting yet more open multiplayer lobbies of NEBULOUS: Fleet Command on my Twitch channel below!
https://www.twitch.tv/docvivileandra <@&942093958551588904>

[deft current]

Is 120mm still a option against OSP or?

What would the main use be?

[oak shell]

Killing shuttles and tugs

[deft current]

Okay second question, does BSSJ follow the seeker or the nose of the missile when it locks?

Like if I do corkscrew, will the cone of the BSSJ just swirl around or be dead point on the target?

[junior heron]

pretty sure it points at the seeker

[deft current]

Last question, what is considered a "good expensive S3?"

For like a torpedo sprinter?

[junior heron]

hmm
Probably CMD or CMD val +3
Corkscrew +3
Big HEI
So probably around 20, but that's gonna come down to seekers and support modules

[glad aurora]

14

14-16pts

[mint sinew]

Don't even need that big of an HEI warhead really, you hit saturation pretty quickly even with smaller warheads

[olive blade]

do anti craft missiles need small target enabled yes?

mine had no and seemed to be working but when I look at the descrip it implies they should need it?

[glad aurora]

if you fire them at craft, they'll automatically get small target turned on

[mint sinew]

Yes, although craft will override those settings and just do whatever

[olive blade]

right

lmao

[junior heron]

real game of pubulous incoming

[wet root]

I believe in the power of IPS-N

[quiet quiver]

What’s the box to fish ratio?

[junior heron]

I think 2:3 or 1:4

or like, 1.5:3.5

so uh

3:7

[quiet quiver]

With the halves is fine TBH

[junior heron]

I guess

I don't like it though

this about sums up the game

meanwhile, the enemy team

[oak shell]

wha

[junior heron]

I love nebulous

[oak shell]

where are their fucking engines??

[junior heron]

engines?

that's 10 points you don't need to launch 200 tantos

[glad aurora]

You don't need engines

Well, technically, you need something that generates power

otherwise you die immediately

what I do is rip the reactor out and downgrade from a FM500 to a FM200, saving 15pts

[quiet quiver]

Probably reactorless

Yeah

[glad aurora]

yeah, they just put the small drive in the small slot for hitbox reasons

[oak shell]

I see

[rigid bison]

pubulous is truly an experience of all time

[sharp crow]

I assume we're on testing branch again today, yes?

[junior heron]

I assumed as much

was gonna ping yesterday

but had a game of all time instead

plus if we play on test branch we can all build good, wholesome fleets according to the building tips

[sharp crow]

so true

I was just looking at those

excited for a vauxhall capable of shooting up with pd

[junior heron]

btw @wet root is the server on the most recent test?

I think there's been a couple small updates since last week

[runic torrent]

<@&942093958551588904> channels opennn

[sharp crow]

I'll be in shortly

[wet root]

It should be

(I'll also be on for game 2)

[wicked mirage]

I can actually play today! But I'm in DnD rn so it'll have to be after if you guys are still going ^^

[supple sonnet]

We might be on laiter as well but not for sure

[sharp crow]

<@&942093958551588904> please send gamers

[tulip vault]

I have gone to the coast 😔

Instead of space boats I’ve seen real boats

[olive blade]

eww water

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Disco Erusea' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

            Kim Kitsuragi : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun Missile PD EWar]
Raphael Ambrosius Costeau : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun EWar PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-200 Smoking Vape Canister : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [7pts]
SGM-200 Vren's Breadstick 3.0 : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE)/CMD - HE FRAG [7pts]

[mint sinew]

The earlier "very functional" lineship

[wet root]

Sold as "lightly used"

[quiet quiver]

I remember someone asking about my DDs

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Beams and Caps' is composed of 7 ships that cost 3000 points:

        Laser Focus : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Beam PD Missile EWar Sensor]
Bright Shiny Object : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Beam PD Missile EWar Sensor]
       Tipsy Patron : 'Raines' class Frigate [Sensor Missile Gun PD]
    Quick Brown Fox : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
           Lazy Dog : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
Black Quartz Sphinx : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
    Chain and Valor : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 5 different missile types:
```yaml
  SDM-220 Arrowhead-AW : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE FRAG [5pts]
 SGM-1 Reverse Perfidy : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
     SGM-102 Starshard : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [2pts]
       SGM-205 Drizzle : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [7pts]
SGM-257 Spearfisher-WA : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE)/ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [5pts]

[wet root]

Oh ty!

[tulip vault]

I’ve come to the conclusion the container liners aren’t big enough

[quiet quiver]

Remember that Neb containers are significantly bigger than standard RL ones

[wet root]

In theory Moorlines are just about the same length as the biggest RL container ships, and twice as wide

In practice some of Neb's art doesn't really fit to the scale of the game

(e.g. some of the hull markings and signs, the Skiff's Big Door)

[olive blade]

is the workshop really worth it compared to filling out empty slots with rapids?

[glad aurora]

yes on axford and solomon

vauxhalls and ocellos get just DCC

[olive blade]

hmmm okay, and OSP you just have the big ass dc thingy

for liners

[tulip vault]

That is true

I do wish sometimes there was a little spacer model for scale because it gets very forgotten sometimes imo

[wet root]

Btw, how did people feel about the Testulous balance?

[wary flame]

tantos are a bit too good with the coilguns, I think

and I am somewhat concerned by the sheer efficiency of SDMs at wiping planes off half the map

but otherwise things are pretty smooth

[mint sinew]

I don't mind coils being a bit strong, you pay a premium for those and I was finding a few SDMs on my cudas could tip the scales back a bit

The SDM backpack/SAM sites are very painful to deal with. I'm not sure what the solution is but watching squadrons of craft vanish because the isolated track I decided to rocket to clear a cap turned out to have brought some SDMs is painful

[sharp crow]

they are very lethal but I think on the other hand, ANS ships don't really have a good way of defending themselves without them

[wet root]

I feel like their range is a bit excessive right now - them being effective at defending a push is good, but a single SDM Raines can cover half the map

[sharp crow]

I don't know if that solves much given how easy it is to backpack some SDMs on basically everything

[wet root]

If you're investing in an SDM backpack on everything you should be pretty immune to craft

But what seems problematic right now is you don't need to do so, since one VLS of SDMs can cover your entire team

[quiet quiver]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/887570/view/751641087504810559

[glad aurora]

Lys confirms PTB is now Live, doesn't look like any changes were made from last PTB patch

[dark dawn]

God fucking

OSP tech can finally kill capital ships
OSP tech that kills capital ships gets nerfed
Lys why are you like this

[glad aurora]

as it turns out it can still kill capital ships

it didn't also need to be better than a torpedo in literally every conceivable way

[dark dawn]

It
Wasn't?
(Also why did 100mm get hit in collateral)

[glad aurora]

it was

[azure lake]

It definitely was

[glad aurora]

also, because 100flak made you functionally immune to hybrids and zoned out huge 8km bubbles of the map from being able to be fought in by craft

[dark dawn]

On bombers, I'm guessing?

I've not used it on craft so I didn't even know that was a tech

[glad aurora]

no

you just brought 8 LNs and suddenly you couldn't be interacted with by planes or hybrids

[dark dawn]

Ah
I meant sturgeon gun pods getting the extra shot spread, ship 100mm I understand

[glad aurora]

ah

yeah nah that was because you couldn't dodge 100mm HE in a sprinter

so you'd fly around wandering packs of 100mm bombers and just delete any unguarded sprinter and it couldn't do anything about it

[dark dawn]

Got it

I did switch my 'cudas to SDM slingers in preparation for the AI changes at least

[glad aurora]

yeah, now cudas have actual reasons to leverage their fantastic standoff capability instead of just charging in with 35mm and winning for free

I'm generally positive on the PTB changes but my matches so far have been

awkward

I still think the changes themselves are good though

[olive blade]

I think the 100mm had to happen and the tanto cuda balance needed to be shifted a bit tanto way

buit I think this was a few too many big ones at once on that matchup

[dark dawn]

I kind of agree, the AI buff, and sandshot buffs

[olive blade]

AI buff, sandshot buff, 35mm nerf

(and multiple sandshot buffs and 35 nerfs at that)

[dark dawn]

Being OSP is suffering

Well, at least now it'll be easier to make a Levy fleet

So I should probably do that

Oh right Claymores got cheaper

Admittedly they needed it, I barely saw them in use and when I did they exploded

[deft current]

Noooo

My revolver liners

My beautiful 450 revolvers

what I did was when one side is empty, I roll over, shoot, when empty other side has reloaded, repeat

luckily I have my deck with me so after the update I can fix my fleets right now

[violet root]

Broke: Using the deck to play games
Woke: Using the deck for real-time portable build optimisation

[deft current]

Most people have to wait after work so they can try their fleet ideas

i, do not have that weakness

[violet root]

...

You can play Neb MP on Deck?

[deft current]

Yes?

Why shouldn’t it?

[violet root]

...
My wallet

[deft current]

Embrace it brother

Embrace Lord Gabens true wallet killer

Not the steam sales, but the steam deck

[violet root]

I've just bought me a PC. And need a job

[deft current]

L

[deft current]

Look at this dude having to be…

shiver

stationary to play PC games

Poor dude probably has to sit in a gamer chair

Instead a comfy sofa or bed

okay good news I got my 2 revolver ships back to 3k

Bad news, they don’t have any AMMs left

Someone got tips how I should deal with hybrids now?

Could I in theory replace all Pavis with 100mm?

[supple sonnet]

Take your pair of revolver liners and split them into 4 one armed bandits and while chanting "actible losses"

[deft current]

Didn’t you see what I use them for?

[deft current]

^

Nothing annoys capitals more than non stop 450 spam

With one arm I have to reload and hide

While with revolvers I can just "lol, lmao eat shit"

[supple sonnet]

We can say that you don't have to do that wiht four of them, most players will get distracted wiht DC comand after the first volly. and as four ships in formation they also take a betting overall better the most of your total firepower you can loss at once is 1/4th as aposed to half

Your other option is to drop a revolver and bring an ocello like what tom has been doing forever

[deft current]

Hmm

Also unrelated

Apparently AMMs work even if detect small targets is off

Bc I only realized now all my AMMs build had it off

[tulip vault]

Can’t say I’m thrilled that OSP’s identity is sliding back towards ‘the faction with worse things’ but at least it feels familiar :]

The new player tips are genuinely cool though

[dark dawn]

Yyyyyyyyep

We were the Carrier Faction for one(1) patch, and what a patch it was

[deft current]

Say is 100mm only as PD viable?

[astral pumice]

hmm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI_emN5fgNg

[azure lake]

No with plasma or against light armor it absolutely shredds

That's why the flak round was such a massive issue for a bit

[olive blade]

yeah 100mm as pd got nerfed a bunch

[late cedar]

Can never have enough PD. Also new update dropped while I was at work.

Any major changes in the OSP vs ANS scene? (Still at work for quite a while so can't really look at the patch notes.)

[mint sinew]

A collection of changes that result in a big shift of craft power from OSP to ANS

[late cedar]

Hmm, judging by what little I saw. OSP missile boats are still terrors tho.

[sharp crow]

this game's patching cycle is truly so allergic to small changes

[olive blade]

I'm not sure how well osp missile doctrine does against better players

[sharp crow]

I've been enjoying a list featuring a monitor with a LRT and cmd missiles for sniping cappers

if you want to play cruise missiles as OSP you're better off with containers

[deft current]

Is 4 raider beam bb good?

[glad aurora]

no

[deft current]

Someone told me that and I need to know if they’re shitting me

Got it

[deft current]

But otherwise normal quad bb would be 2 whip, 1 raider and 1 dragon right?

[glad aurora]

and you wouldn't run quad drive with a beam BB because you either have no FPAs or couldn't fire all your beams at once

[deft current]

Yeah no I’m talking about 450 bb now

[wary flame]

4 raider both runs into diminishing returns on the linear thrust and instantly cooks all your drives when you flank

2 small whip, raider, dragon is the standard quad drive

[deft current]

I see

Also

Is parallax worth it?

[glad aurora]

it's the only radar you'd use on a BB unless you're doing 4TC spy

[deft current]

I assume standalone on a BB too then?

[glad aurora]

yes

[wary flame]

some fighter testing later: 4x S1 cudas are not capable of handling a 2:1 20mm/coil tanto mix with even numbers

headbutting the OSP with pure guns is very viable

(after three 6v6 tests)

[glad aurora]

is it time, misc

do I rise from my slumber and do the 48 coil tantos 24 claymores again

[wary flame]

remove the coils from 2/3 of those and save ~230pts

and you're golden for anything less than a 50+ fighter moorline

[glad aurora]

once more it falls to me to get gun-only tantos nerfed again 😔

have to put my hybrids down for this, smh

[quiet quiver]

Oh it won't just be you

It's possible that coils at all is overkill in dogfights with current balance

[glad aurora]

[mint sinew]

I thought the coils were for SDM immunity?

[wary flame]

they also finish the fights very quickly, but yeah

I had two coils just to make you mostly immune to TALS (since it shoots two missiles at once)

[quiet quiver]

But also not every OSP player feels TALS SDMs are worth it

[glad aurora]

if an OSP player has a non-ocello frontline fleet that doesn't have TALS S2s, they are playing a bad fleet

(even plas/100 has it, I just outsourced them all to a tug along with some of the softkill)

[misty storm]

i feel like what pushed it over the edge in terms of fighter balance for ans was probs the AI buff if id have to guess?

[quiet quiver]

Breadstick S2s are different than SDMs for Tantos, IMO

[quiet quiver]

Yeah it's very good, in whiteroom tests up until it's outnumbered more than 2:1

[warm gulch]

i will die before i use an ocello

repeatedly

[deft current]

Me:

Never had a situation where fighters became so bad that I had to resort to TALS

Instead I just max PD/AMMs, and these fighters can do what they want, the payload will always be destroyed before they hit

[topaz jolt]

This is going to sound so stupid. But what are TALS S2s?

[oak shell]

TALS is a turreted missile launch system exclusive to OSP. It's primarily designed to launch defensive missiles, though it can fire any size 2.

[topaz jolt]

I think I'd really need a 2nd ammo storage thingiee on my Ocello for that.

They take ammo from storage. If I heard correctly.

[oak shell]

They do.

[sharp crow]

ocello can just take a VLS-2 so no need to bring a TALS

[azure lake]

The TALS does let you do some funny AMMs

[junior heron]

It also lets you do direct fire badly

Did you know the only way to increase programming channels (which the TALS needs) on OSP hulls is the Container Datalink Array?

[wet root]

Unless you're using a TALS Ocello!

(Please do not build a TALS Ocello)

[mint sinew]

Short cycle PTB patch coming to help unbreak the air war. Lys estimates it should be in live by Monday

[sharp crow]

more context from lys

[tulip vault]

I will accept this

I still think the rocket nerf was overtuned, but nonetheless I appreciate this

[junior heron]

so, do we want to do ptb on boat night?

[wet root]

🇲ain vs 🇹est

I am very glad to see a relatively small balance change

[rigid bison]

an change meant to make it so tantos are able to be engaged in an even fight and a 35mm rebuff is very much appreciated

[sharp crow]

we should just do test, it changes no costs or anything else

it's just a cuda improvement

[topaz jolt]

I'll try and bring my normal OSP fleet. My ANS fleet needs to be changed as it's currently utterly useless with carriers.

[rigid bison]

I am no longer blue!

[junior heron]

thijs and I are in a dota game and might be a bit late

nevermind

we have lost

[runic torrent]

<@&942093958551588904> channels oppenn

[sharp crow]

<@&942093958551588904> where are the gamers. 12 of you voted on a question whether we were doing main or test

[quiet quiver]

I didn't vote, and I have Covid

[misty storm]

I’ll be there in a sec

[junior heron]

oh no Tech :(

[mint sinew]

A reasonable excuse. Get well soon!

[wet root]

D: hope you feel better soon!

[wary flame]

give me a minute, although I may be snatched by my tournament team to watch the scheming

[tulip vault]

In the hinterlands as per usual unfortunately

[glad aurora]

I am in a tournament match that starts in the next 30 minutes

[wary flame]

mine is tomorrow, although it's just exhibition

[wet root]

Sent to sea

[glad aurora]

Exhibition?

[mint sinew]

Playing the bye I think

[wary flame]

yeah, show match to round the numbers up despite not having quite enough teams to fill every bracket

[tulip vault]

Sent unfortunately from the sea actually

[wet root]

Unshipped

[mint sinew]

Plenty to trim off here, pretty sure it has too many loadouts for the current environment

[lime jungle]

'20250223 - cap guard jman lux' is a 'Journeyman' class Light Carrier that costs 1232 points.

[mint sinew]

one thing about it I'm not sure of is the S1 loadouts. Wake S1s have been good in dogfights but can't help defend vs SDMs

[topaz jolt]

Sorry. My computer wouldn't start earlier. So wasn't able to load up the Nebulous until now.

[tulip vault]

<@&942093958551588904> anyone feel like some pubulous?

[mint sinew]

Sure

[wary flame]

tourney exhibition match just starting sadly

[oak shell]

I can

[mint sinew]

Have fun!

[wary flame]

the guild does not take their orders

[wicked mirage]

Amazing lol

Give em hell!!!

[glad aurora]

Good luck

[topaz jolt]

Eeeps. I can in a few minutes.

Are we playing on the test patch still?

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Caps' is composed of 7 ships that cost 3000 points:

 Lunar Gown : 'Journeyman' class Light Carrier [PD]
  Wound Web : 'Draugr' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
Sound Piles : 'Draugr' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
Burly Deeds : 'Draugr' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
  Many Bane : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
 Void Stoop : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
 Aware Fast : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
```This fleet uses 7 different missile types:
```yaml
          SDM-221 Naginata M8C-XT : DIRECT - CMD/PSV(WAKE) - HE FRAG [7pts]
                  SGM-101 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
             SGM-113 Scary Object : DIRECT - ARAD(RADAR) - NONE [2pts]
              SGM-157 Snifferator : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE FRAG [1pts]
        SGM-171 Tribble Container : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
                   SGM-247 Slider : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [8pts]

[sharp crow]

glad the recurring cap fleet all called duncan idaho joke is on stream

[mint sinew]

I greatly recommend the extra pad on the jman. It's literally a 25% increase in launch volume for cheap

[misty storm]

Ok

[sharp crow]

looking at this tourney game with four axfords having a long range standoff against ocellos and 450 liners

I really do feel like one rail ship on either side would be such a difference maker

[oak shell]

Where is the tournament viewable?

[sharp crow]

https://www.twitch.tv/scapegt is showing misc's game

[junior heron]

calling the map "Bulwark"

and it's not The Bulwark

smh my head

[junior heron]

@wary flame Stream lagged and I didn't catch the end of game 3, what happened?

[wary flame]

Axfords eventually folded and I couldn't push through that one liner guarding A anyway

OSP took all three matches, enemy team beat us 2:1 but I think only because we had two ANS games due to losing the coin toss

OSP frontline is very mean these days

and I really liked their TALS tug setups

[quiet quiver]

I think 4+ Axfords might actually be a trap RN

Mostly judging by tourney games, but still

[tulip vault]

do the pros (as it were) have any interesting tech or do the pub-stomping hammerheads still work

[wet root]

I only caught the third game, but I feel like that one was more due to the map and scouting than anything inherent to the Axford

The current state of Axfords is kind of irrelevant when they pop out one or two at a time into 2x Obelisks 2x Ocellos and a Pentabrick formation within plasma range

[wary flame]

the reason they were split up like that was because the previous two games both had the ANS frontline getting steadily mangled in the long range gunfight and they decided to change it up

caps were pretty even the whole time, though

[wet root]

Ah, fair enough - that definitely seems like more of an indictment of the viability of mass Axfords

[glad aurora]

"OSP takes all matches" seems to be a theme across the tournament

[misty storm]

true but like im already constricted on points

[mint sinew]

Just rip a dgl or fdts if you can't find other points, because of diminishing returns neither buff your rate of "get more craft in the air" as much as being able to prep and launch a 5th craft at once

[misty storm]

ah fair

[mint sinew]

It slows down the first craft into the air, but the first wing then has 5 not 4

[misty storm]

what if i removed the pavise

[mint sinew]

Then don't get missiled (or keep some cudas nearby)

It's probably fine enough to trim, one pavise will only do so much anyway. Up to your risk tolerance and how well you think you'll be able to hide your carrier

[misty storm]

hmmm true

although i think i might ask misc for his carrier + caps fleet

@wary flame would you mind posting your current for-public-release carrier + caps fleet?

[sharp crow]

I genuinely think there's a solution here in bringing a couple railguns to suppress the ocellos

especially in a tournament context where you're practically guaranteed osp is bringing a couple of them

having the next tournament games up as background noise while I work and in fact two railguns immediately made a difference in Oops! All Berries! V Killing is Just a Means of Communication by critting out PD

[sharp crow]

every time I see another ocello with 4 dc teams I become a little bit more of a rail believer.

[bitter furnace]

the TL;DR is fleche cudas will reliably beat 20mm tantos now

[wary flame]

what about 20mm and 20mm

I guess we'll have to check

[sharp crow]

these are the test runs that lys posted

blue tanto red cuda

coil still seems to be the champion of dogfights

[bitter furnace]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/887570/view/545601771364421627

[tulip vault]

Oh neat

Very glad to see that pushed to main

[wet root]

Did the most recent 'Cuda behavior get folded into the patch? Or is there still a test branch?

[sharp crow]

it got folded in

[dark dawn]

Oh that's main now!
Hell yeah

I'm not sure I'll go back to 35mm over SDM spam, but it's still nice to see 'Cudas not get mulched by tantos 3 to 1

[misty storm]

how expeisve are coiltos?

like

[glad aurora]

15pts per base

[misty storm]

are the points too little for how hard they smash cudas

[glad aurora]

no

[misty storm]

ok

so coiltos are at least somewhat balanced by high points cost?

is what im gathering

[glad aurora]

and by low ammunition count

[misty storm]

yeah

[sharp crow]

I don't think I've ever seen coilgun ammo be a meaningful limiter

[wet root]

Don't they only carry like 15 rounds?

[sharp crow]

10 I think

[glad aurora]

aye, 10

[gusty imp]

Has anybody here play Nebulous on Linux? Wondering if it runs on there or if I should install it on windows drive.

[quiet quiver]

I play on Linux

So does Althaea IIRC

[gusty imp]

Okay poggers, gotta figure out that install then

[sudden echo]

It should install and run through Proton seamlessly. Are you running into an issue installing it?

[gusty imp]

No, I just haven't gotten around to installing Linux on my new computer yet

[sudden echo]

Ah.

Have fun.

[gusty imp]

Yeah, thanks

[quiet quiver]

I have had to do various jiggling with Proton from time to time but I remember Nebulous being pretty routine

[wet root]

I also haven't seen any issues with it on Linux

Though apparently I do have some launch options set, WINE_DO_NOT_CREATE_DXGI_DEVICE_MANAGER=1 PROTON_LOG=1 AMD_VULKAN_ICD=RADV gamemoderun %command% -window-mode borderless

(Proton 9.0-4)

[sudden echo]

By this point I just run everything Windows in Steam on some version of GE proton and Nebulous never gave me any trouble or needed tweaks.

[night fable]

It's time, lab rats! Come join me on my Twitch channel below for our weekly open multiplayer lobbies in NEBULOUS: Fleet Command!
https://www.twitch.tv/docvivileandra <@&942093958551588904>

[runic torrent]

<@&942093958551588904> boaaats o/

channels opened

thanks thijs

[sharp crow]

[wicked mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/missinout-missing-out-missingout-leftout-gif-14214999

[sharp crow]

I should play more pubulous

and use these vauxhalls more often

[mint sinew]

They are very scary vauxhalls

[wet root]

I was fairly pleased with the performance of the TALS MMTs

Their survivability was lower than I'd like, but that was due to mispositioning and slow play on my end, not design error

While the missiles did sometimes go into a rock, I think they were only ever hardkilled by the Sarissas

I probably should go from TALS/Pinpoint/2x Pavise to TALS/Jammer/Pinpoint/AMM Box though

[wet root]

Is 2x Basic or 1x RCIC generally preferred on MMTs?

[olive blade]

yeah the TALS missiles seemed good

can you chuck me the fleet I'd be interested in giving them a try

[wet root]

This is the one I was running

Hm, either Hazel is down or it doesn't like the +

[olive blade]

it doesn't like characters I find

my _ mean it ignores my fleets

but thanks!

[wet root]

Yeah, I've seen the same

[glad aurora]

One basic, rdriveswap, aux

[wet root]

Huh, not a fan of that

[quiet quiver]

The top compartment is one of those low risk slots from most firing angles

[wet root]

Yeah, which is why I can see RCIC, since the main threat is unlucky missile hits

[glad aurora]

if you get a CL pointed at you or eat a torp off the nose, you're pretty screwed regardless of the CIC

[wet root]

I guess I don't see the point of the aux in that case

[quiet quiver]

Aux tanking more than an actual fallback

[wet root]

I figured as much, but what are you tanking for? Though I suppose in a classic MMT your MLS is in the bottom slot

[wary flame]

the aux is to make the nose bulky

you can take a lot of hits to a reinforced tug nose stack without losing full capability

backup drive control is a nice side effect

[wet root]

I suppose I'm probably just underestimating the tankiness of a reinforced tug

I don't really play them enough

[wary flame]

single small locker, reinforced mag and double aux in the front, basic CIC in the top, R-drive in the forward slot and reactor behind

it's a fairly cheap package for how reinforced it makes you

[mint sinew]

The reinforced tug bulk is more for zoning out sprinters than surviving heavier assets

[wary flame]

torptugs need bigger mags, so they tend to put a bulk mag in the tower slot and an RCIC in the forward stack

[wet root]

Yeah, I don't play that many ANS light ships (except Galefrigs, which don't count), so I haven't really internalized how much of a pain Tugs are to kill

[glad aurora]

I skip the second aux for a rapid, but that's personal

Lets me keep them on flank forever

[olive blade]

so this layout? or does the mag go in a small slot?

interesting missile lark I'm surprised it makes it through given the warhead size

I guess its just short range hmm

[wet root]

Yeah, limited to a bit below Pinpoint range

I figured with salvos of only 2 I want as much warhead as possible

I will probably try to bump it up to 7 or 7.5k range if I can do so without losing PD pen

Also considering losing 1 warhead size and the backup seeker, since ARAD doesn't get terminals

[oak shell]

Question about anti-craft missiles: should they be set to defensive or offensive?

I ask because the breadstick is set to offensive, but that doesn't seem right to me

[glad aurora]

defensive

unless it's for craft launch, in which case offensive (you don't want them expending S2s to try to kill incoming missiles)

[wet root]

AIUI this is so they don't automatically fire, if you manually track fire on a craft it overrides the seeker config

So leaving it on offensive prevents them from being wasted on bombers 8k away behind the enemy lines

[runic torrent]

https://youtu.be/-pHrhJrNqho

[wary flame]

the Seals sadly went out in the second round of the tournament but they were very much game for it and they put up an exceptional fight for a team of complete newbies

credit to them

[wary flame]

time for my team's first tourney matches

[tulip vault]

oooh

are they being streamed somewhere misc

[mint sinew]

https://www.twitch.tv/dargaribdus

[tulip vault]

oh it's darg

:(

unfortunate, but gl nonetheless misc

[wet root]

Good luck!

[wary flame]

uncontested Guild victory despite us producing an endless series of minor pratfalls

[mint sinew]

Nice flying

Taking a minor points lead and just grinding it out seemed to do well for you

[wary flame]

I accidentally mined my own shuttle while emconning against hybrids, various missiles were fired into rocks, etc.

yeah, we had decided before the games that we would play a very passive cap game

I ended up throwing a few ships onto points just to close it out, but ANS caps in general is a coward's game

OSP can be more flamboyant with it because Journeycaps has the ability to reinforce their pushes with a few squadrons of strike cudas and overmatch most enemy cap defenders

the backline TALS tugs or gun/VLS-2 frigates are very handy

[mint sinew]

Yeah, plain gun tugs returning as cheap heavy cappers is nice to see too

[wet root]

I'm surprised I don't see more mixed S2H/SDM frigs on cap control duty

[wary flame]

they're very solid, since you can tape more missiles to them with cuda friends

personally I am not in love with the S2H frig unless it's absolutely loaded up with prog channels and can reliably fire enough to take out ships, but they can be very lethal

[wet root]

Mostly I'm not really sure what alternative ANS has if they want zone control that can kill tugs but doesn't die to Cudas

(Other than "friendly Levy", ofc)

[wary flame]

into the quarter finals now, all but one or two remaining teams are very scary

[glad aurora]

CL

[wary flame]

our next opposition are two people I judge about on a level with me and Mink and two unknowns, so it'll be fun

[oak shell]

Is there a stream?

Oh I see Lord Fluffy posted it

[wet root]

In theory yes, but it feels like Vauxen have been in a pretty bad spot for solo cruising for a while

[glad aurora]

you said "die to cudas," not "die to R3 sturgeons"

:^)

[wet root]

And dedicating 2-2.5k of Vauxes in one group to hunt solo Tugs puts a lot of pressure on the rest of your team

[glad aurora]

well, nah, you just glue a single vaux onto a capfleet as a goalie

[wet root]

I have been pleasantly surprised by the backpack Vauxes making the rounds recently though

[glad aurora]

same way OSP is gluing 100mm LNs into capfleets

[wet root]

Sure, DDs also work there, but that doesn't solve the problem of how to exert forward pressure

[wet root]

This reminds me I should see how cheap I can make a 100mm goalie MN that's reinforced enough to survive missiles

[glad aurora]

A DD isn't going to run down tugs or operate orbitally, a CL can

[wet root]

I am kind of regretting not trying to find/make a team, it's looked like a lot of fun with more skill variety than I'd expected in the lower brackets

[glad aurora]

also actually kill one of those 100mm LNs

[wet root]

Yeah, I don't dislike the idea of a goalie Vaux

[glad aurora]

I kind of regret the team I ended up with tbh, so I do wish pnet put something forward lmao

[wet root]

It just doesn't fully answer the capability issue I've noticed in ANS cap

[wet root]

Hopefully there'll be another tournament eventually

(And hopefully I'll have upgraded my CPU by then :P )

[wet root]

Congrats btw!

[noble zodiac]

[quiet quiver]

I thought your other teammates performed fairly solidly, seeing your games

[glad aurora]

I would have liked an actual AN capfleet. That's the most I'll say on the matter.

[quiet quiver]

Okay I did think your team's comps were lacking but that's another matter

[sharp crow]

<@&942093958551588904> could I interest anyone in some pubulous on this fine monday evening

[glad aurora]

yeah, sure

[wet root]

I wish I could, but time zones and managers conspire against me D':

[sharp crow]

😔

[junior heron]

if ever there were a time to try and play neb through my phone's steam link...

[sharp crow]

I think I would like at least a third person before pubbing it up

[tulip vault]

I have a test today, so no boats for me 😔

[glad aurora]

good luck!

[wicked mirage]

I'm available now if you wanna play?

[sharp crow]

it's my bedtime 😔

[wicked mirage]

Aw alrighty, goodnight@!

[wet root]

Doing some fleet editing

[misty storm]

Shaved

[wet root]

Nudist LN

(I gave it back its fuel tanks after)

[olive blade]

smooth ln

[misty storm]

Peeled

[sharp crow]

[sharp crow]

<@&942093958551588904> once again I call for pubulous

[tulip vault]

hmmm

I could pubulous

[sharp crow]

I am parked in voice

[topaz jolt]

I missed the spaceship noises.

[unreal hound]

feels relevant to the channel

[topaz jolt]

I've been working on my silly OSP fleet. I think it's a little better now.
Soooo, I'm using triple drive Ocello.

[topaz jolt]

The silly fleet.

[lime jungle]

Fleet '3k Fey Twilight (Triple Drive Ocello)' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

 Fionnghuala : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
  Verenestra : 'Flathead' class Monitor [PD Gun Sensor]
Little Nymph : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
Little Sylph : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
Little Dryad : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-107 Mini Lance : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [2pts]
SGM-117 Tiny Lance : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [5pts]
  SGM-119 Firewall : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [4pts]

[topaz jolt]

Though I just changed the 3rd drive from a different type to what it is now. I'll see how this version does maybe after I wake up later, if I have time before campaign.

[olive blade]

I think it just really lacks firepower with one elevator

[wet root]

Likewise, I strongly recommend swapping the Scryer and Fire Suppression System for two more elevators

You could swap the elevator on the Monitor for a Scryer if you want missile ID capabilities, since that one is only buffing a single T30 and it will work to ID any missiles in the EWR cone

(I have strong negative opinions on 3x AE Ocellos as well but you're going to have difficulty getting a 4th in there with three drives and twp Auroras)

[topaz jolt]

I'll swap the Scryer for a 2nd Ammo Elevator in the Ocello. And swap the Ammo Elevator for a Scryer in the Monitor.

[glad aurora]

to be clear, if you ever have any less than three AEs on a gun ocello, it is a bad ocello

[sharp crow]

scryer on the monitor is nice because it'll work off the EWR

[topaz jolt]

Then I've always had a bad Ocello. I've never used more than 2 Ammo Elevators with one.

[glad aurora]

unfortunately, yes, then you have

4AEcello is good, 5AE is best, 3AE is acceptable with some weird builds, anything less should not exist unless it's a really jank build

[wet root]

I remain ever-skeptical of 3AE

Other modules are nice-to-haves, but Ammo Elevators are what let your big incredibly expensive gun ship actually use its guns

[junior heron]

<@&942093958551588904> boat night time!
(if Tech or @runic torrent see this, could you open the channels?)

[quiet quiver]

Opened!

[sharp crow]

come hither, gamers

[wet root]

Omw

[runic torrent]

thanks tech!

[sharp crow]

@wary flame @oak shell I see you two online in steam, are either of you coming to play or shall we four go for pub games

[wary flame]

I am gungeoning in between obligations, so I will have to leave the neb to you lot tonight

[wicked mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/missinout-missing-out-missingout-leftout-gif-14214999

@wet root You should create the Unholy Creature. It's up to you now, hero.

[sharp crow]

note to self: never play an ANS team without a carrier

[mint sinew]

I thought sdm piles were in a good space vs OSP, were they not cutting it?

[topaz jolt]

Awww. I missed Nebulous noises again.

[wicked mirage]

I like having backpack planes on Axes and Sollies, it can help with pesky EO Pikes spotting and stuff.

[sharp crow]

in our last pub we just got rolled by a moorline because once the team is out of sdms you cannot interact with planes

250 rpf is pretty useless and normal pd doesn't really make a dent either

[azure lake]

The SDM check was failed

[wary flame]

tourney game on now, come watch us get eliminated

[wary flame]

we did in fact get eliminated in the quarter-finals

first game was a massive misplay by us but the second game was a total nailbiter, well worth going out on

[sharp crow]

ooh that game was close

[sharp crow]

damn, what a highscore

[wicked mirage]

EO/Wake Cork SDM's for shooting with Standoff on, don't need no good track lol. I dunno if I wanna swap Wake for an SSJ, cuz the Wake seeker has a wider FoV.