Nebulous: Fleet Command

[junior heron]

the autumn's new maneuvering ability as well apparently

landing a halberd on the front c4 caused me to rear up

[wet root]

Huh, why so? Too hard to jam comms?

[mint sinew]

Craft have a selection of unguided munitions available (which you can't softkill)

[wet root]

Oh, yeah, but that's just the same as rocket shuttles - dodge and keep them away with rpf

[mint sinew]

True, we'll see if any of those builds can survive the initial days

[wet root]

I probably won't be running any softkill-only until a month or so in, because I expect craft will be very overrepresented at first (exciting new toy!)

But I'll be curious if it's viable once the hype's died down

[azure lake]

So to ask the devil's question

Anyone tried rails yet ?

[mint sinew]

Only rails I've seen in play got smote immediately by the first bombers over the map

[azure lake]

Lol

[glad aurora]

softkill is actually very important with carriers, arguably moreso than ever

skip out on softkill and some kind gentlemen in claymores will be very keen to show you the error of your ways at 5000 damage/warhead

s'why the warbler got added, trust me

[glad aurora]

rails are very good but not oppressive, mostly on OSP rather than AN - they're just a serious backline investment that's tough to conscience when craft pressure is so strong

I genuinely think rails are balanced now

[glad aurora]

the thing that's a real pain for softkill-only is containers

submunition containers with proper seekers will chew you up and spit you out, you need both softkill and some measure of hardkill to get through the nastiness that is an ACT/[THERM]/HOJ salvo

killjoys or jamtantos are the preferred and let you skimp on hardkill, I've done quite well still with my current greedford setup

[tulip vault]

I've given a hybrid md/carrier build a try

It felt not bad but also didn't really face any real opposition

[wet root]

Makes sense, I assume the linger on the thermal validator is long enough if they come around a rock 5k away turning off your engine won't help

[glad aurora]

depends on the ship you're in

(and, to some degree, your drive setup and whether you were on FLANK)

sprinter? no problem, ALL STOP + chaff will kill it

Solomon? Better have that mf thing (PD escort) on you

[misty storm]

<@&942093958551588904> more carriersgames?

[oak shell]

Give me 20 minutes

[rigid bison]

yeah

@oak shell @misty storm in HA Hangout, are we pubbing or doing it locally?

[misty storm]

any more?

<@&942093958551588904> need one more to play vs ai or stack a pub

[mint sinew]

2 min

[rigid bison]

god the tanto just looks so good

[azure delta]

poking at nebulous ship design & doctrine stuff again even though this is a game i will probably never properly play

feeels like OSP is designed to go on a bursty offense and create threats which Alliance needs to deal with? The things like the rocket racks, high burst but long reload weapons & such give me this impression. But Alliance is the one with the VLS tubes, and OSP has those brickthrower mass drivers which seem like they just kill things at long range?

[azure delta]

You should make a hybrid Rail + External Carrier battleship :3

also I feel like the OSP rail line ships can get a lot of point defense as an option as well. They can't have everything they want, but you can reasonably build a 3 rail broadside + defenses, I think?

[mint sinew]

The biggest problem with PD on a MD liner is that they are usually blind (no onboard radar). So you need to bring something else to spot missiles for you

[azure delta]

...huh? Don't liners get onboard radar? It's civy stuff but like... you can just take a radar? It's just 1 slot? and having PD seems really good?

oh i guess i was missing out on the missile interception system. hm, that's harder to fit

[mint sinew]

You can, but MDs are so incredibly power hungry the optimised builds can't justify the power

[azure delta]

i think if you're trying to fit 4 MD onto a MD liner you aren't going to fit anything else on

I think that you prooobably only want the 3, unless you're doing some other things? idk.

shenanigans.

[mint sinew]

Even 3MD +3EReg doesn't have spare power/module slots

[azure delta]

hm, i guess i only put 2 eregs on

you could...

run a small mounted hangar or two on the non-broadside side and pull in some spotter craft

[mint sinew]

There are ways to do it, they just lose a significant amount of rpm/cost

[azure delta]

OSP can put Internal Radar (Advanced) on their Halberds

[mint sinew]

That was my thinking. In the past I've used a cheap shuttle, but a skiff will probably do the trick now

[azure delta]

you're probably not fitting anti-sprint missile measures if you're minmaxing MDs though. Unless there's a decent way to intercept sprint missiles which isn't the Grazer?

mn, looks like you can actually.

[mint sinew]

Anti-missile missiles are the standard anti-hybrid tools

[azure delta]

that's fair, yeah.

Zero damage control on these things though >.>

huh, you could very reasonably run three small mounted hangars and a warbler on a MD line ship

I think MD line ships find Alliance railguns to be kinda scary though?

idk.

Was originally trying to look at OSP stuff to figure out how to actually play against it.

[mint sinew]

They are kind of in a place these days where neither rail platform loves being hit by the other. Although the return of turreted rails may change that a little

[azure delta]

I just have a sense that things lacking in damage control will dislike being shot by railguns.

[violet root]

You don't say

[azure delta]

mn, that's fair. I have this funny concept of a C&C Axford with 6 spots for fightercraft & a single turreted railgun

...wow the Levy gets a lot of fighters.

[azure delta]

...do comms jammers need LoS?

what about normal jammers?

[errant crow]

Radar jammers do, tbh I haven't touched comms in ages

Notably ship hulls don't obstruct

[wet root]

(Ships don't block LoS, so disco balls and the osp 360 jammer still work)

[azure delta]

okay, cool. ship hulls don't block LoS for either type of jammer?

[wet root]

(This also lets you put a Bullseye behind the bridge of an Ocello and lock onto stuff in front, for some nice microwaved command staff)

[errant crow]

Darn I should do that

Hate it when the bullseye gets shot off

[wet root]

Note that MDs are basically unable to actually kill something on their own, because they deal a bunch of low damage rays that can't break DT

[azure delta]

really? weird.

[wet root]

So they'll disable components temporarily by redding them out, but you need a friend to finish them off, or they'll repair back up when you stop shooting them

(They used to be able to kill off DC teams until the ship fell over but that was nerfed)

Strike craft are probably a good way for MD liners to finish stuff now, come to think of it

[olive blade]

yeah neb is a kinda weird game in a lot of ways

its tricky to theorycraft in the abstract

[azure delta]

so

you can run a lot of interceptor missiles by... carrying interceptors.

[olive blade]

huh the internal craft bays for liners really don't carry many huh

3 per big slot

[azure delta]

...liners get internals? huh. the Alliance gets 2 and 4 slot externals which can only mount size1s

[olive blade]

yeah the OSP externals are just one pad

with one ship, but they can draw from internals and they get those that take the big slots for 3 ships each

[azure lake]

This statement hurts lmao

I gotta say tho

The new AI is lovely

I think I'm gonna play mostly AI battles for a bit

[azure delta]

can one hit fightercraft with HE missiles?

[azure lake]

No clue

[mint sinew]

I believe the answer is "technically yes". The patch notes mention that they now deal the full warhead damage not just one ray, so I assume it works.

However you need to land a pinpoint hit with a missile on an evasive, fast, small target. So good luck

[azure delta]

so it might be reasonable to hit bombers with HE interceptor missiles

anyway, perfectly ordinary ship

i must now sleep

[mint sinew]

I wouldn't say reasonable, at the size of fighters direct hits will be a mess. Especially when blast frag is right there

[azure delta]

blast frag is like 3 hits to kill on a bomber though

HE is 1

[sharp crow]

misc posted a device that oneshots bombers yesterday

[azure delta]

oh good

i might up my interceptor frag missile damage or just counts because they're cheap as hell

if i can get away with using size1 antiship missiles i could downsize the size2 payload on the tantos to size1 and run dedicated interceptor stuff

of course I could also make size2 frag missiles to kill bombers or similar instead :3

anyway sleep

[dark dawn]

Honestly
There's a strong part of me that wants to wait until Carriergeddon is over, because I really like carriers, I want to play carriers
I don't want to play a four-stack of carriers every match

[olive blade]

I'd be surprised if they were not like a relatively contested slot kinda forever

[sharp crow]

I feel like levy + friends lists is fine to have several of

[olive blade]

yeah probably

lighter carrier fleets you can probably have a few if you have no dedicated one

[wary flame]

We found that Moorline + Capfleet Jman is reasonably comfortable in a 4v4, which is about 4-4.5k of planes and plane accessories

just can't fit any other backline and the frontline needs to be careful

[azure lake]

I, for one, have zero interest in carriers

I'm really interested in interacting with them

But not actually playing them

[dark dawn]

Got it, because playing as The Only Frontline is just not enjoyable

Especially as OSP

[azure lake]

I just wanna play rails tbh

I've suggested burst rails back in the original what to do with rails pol and feel really happy they made it in

But also bringing rails into osp is, not all that useful, especially on the BB

I did have an idea for a bait BB tho, as dumb as that is

[mint sinew]

Especially if TheLastShogun is the OSP's only frontline

[azure lake]

My favorite build went from op, to bad, to bad, to alright but not very useful

Which I'm honestly fine with

[dark dawn]

I actually stopped bringing rails because no one ever brought 450s

[mint sinew]

But really I don't think we'll know how rails sit until carrier fever winds down

[azure lake]

Lol

[azure lake]

Yeah

[dark dawn]

Also, the issue still persists, bowtanking axfords cannot be killed by anything except carriers

[azure lake]

Tho I know what am running for my next mp game

I have conceptualized a *no fly zone" fleet

2000 points of do not fighters here

[mint sinew]

Bow tanking Axfords are still perfectly killable with plasma, just need something heavier than 100mm to reach into the guts

[azure lake]

With 1000 points of hybrid hell

[dark dawn]

Welp
I guess I'm finally switching to plasma

I'm legitimately sick of ANS capital spam that somehow, even in the face of carriers, has not let up

[azure lake]

Capitals are just too awesome

[dark dawn]

Also why do people keep trying to turn bulkers into pure carriers, I've seen that like three times now

[mint sinew]

I still swear by my cursed duo of a C81 liner and a mixed 450/250/100mm gun liner. Just opens up ANS capitals if you can safely cross into plasma range.

Plasma + 450mm sounds dumb but it really works

[ivory juniper]

@pseudo wharf

[dark dawn]

[wary flame]

if ANS persist in the capital spam they will be dismantled

unless it's four flakfords in a ball

in which case you kill their friends

[wary flame]

I am having an extremely strange and novel problem

half my tech and doctrine is completely useless because nobody is doing the stuff I built it to counter

the standard practice of distributing wings across the battlefield to converge on a single target with standoff anti-fighter munitions was not expecting 42 barracudas to run at it in a single wing

I suppose that's really on me, time to lock and load a few dozen Guys in wings of 12 and just run the skies with those

[tulip vault]

for missiles loaded on strike craft, are you meant to designate them as offensive or defensive missiles if they are meant to be Air-to-air

I'm assuming defensive but

[wary flame]

doesn't matter, they'll shoot at craft anyway

[tulip vault]

yeah figures

[wary flame]

but setting them to defensive means they'll launch at incoming ACMs

so it depends if you're all right with using them to slap S2s and SDMs rather than purely enemy planes

[tulip vault]

if you set them to defensive (craft only) will the planes listen to that?

[wary flame]

I know some people keep their S1s on defensive and their lunges on offensive because a 10pt premium fighter killer should not be burned on a 5pt SDM, personally I lock everything Offensive and rely on shooting down the missiles with guns

pretty sure they will

but I admit I have not sat down and tested it

[misty storm]

i need to noodle out a carrier + half a cap fleet for both factions

[olive blade]

yeah I just quickly made one of those

not that I'm entirely sure what I'm doing lmao

[tulip vault]

having done a bit of testing, this could not feel more right lol

bafflingly effective, but man those are expensive

[worthy bane]

how smart are craft with illuminators?

[tulip vault]

I haven't figured out how to convince them to guide other missiles in very effectively, but they will turn on their illuminators

[wary flame]

they are pretty good these days

especially the pike

shift-click the target and it will fly a nice little nascar track pattern at 6km while illuminating to maximise uptime

also man, trying to give good advice to newbies in the neb server is suffering

so many people with two games of experience rushing in to go "no, don't listen to him, do [complete nonsense I made up on the spot because it sounded funny]

most noticeably people keep trying to use the finisher bombs as primary weapons because it's fairly intuitive to put bombs on bombers and drop them on things

this results in all but the largest squadrons dying instantly to 20mm because bombing craft can't dodge

for some reason nobody is willing to listen to the carrier testers suggesting that you might want to use a real missile

[tulip vault]

impossible

I have been spectating some pubs and I cannot tell if the R3 rockets are just horrible or if I am watching extreme user error

[chilly yoke]

What position to rails have in the meta rn?

I'm not big on micro so as cool as I find carriers it might be a bit much if I do pugs

[wary flame]

they're cheap and cheerful, you need to use quite a lot of them but they have a very solid position as cheap anti-heavy that can't be softkilled

8 sturgeons is the standard "R3s off to kill an Axford" complement, small squads don't hit the anti-defender critical mass

personally I like to launch everything once with torps and then load any survivors with R3s, but you can totally do R3 primary Moorline

[tulip vault]

yeah I dunno I'm not really seeing a dearth of sucessful hits they just don't do a ton of damage when they do hit

maybe again there just needs to be that critical mass

[wary flame]

yeah, 16 R3s to the engine block is rather meaner

[wary flame]

more limited than they used to, because carriers can reach out and touch them more easily

they tend to pair with carriers to protect and spot for them

personally I'm a big fan of either gun ocello or cruise missiles as fairly relaxing fleets

sit back, chuck strikes at the red dots

[chilly yoke]

Any missile templates for doing that?

[wary flame]

single rail ocello with a VLS full of anti-craft missiles and single gun ocello is a nice compromise

[wary flame]

mine are a bit out of date, I'll grab some on a minute when I'm out of this match

[chilly yoke]

Thanks, just gives me an idea of what to shoot for

[wary flame]

the standard ANS missile fleet is two or three frigates full of VLS-2s with maybe 8 prog channels between the two

firing Arad/Act and Act/[ARAD] mixed salvos

I'll glue something together momentarily

[chilly yoke]

Cruise S2Hs?

[wary flame]

yeah

pricy but they work

you can also do S3H but that's generally an add-on to a fleet that usually does something else

single S3H frigate + vaux pair, or similar

[tulip vault]

goodness gracious I just watched a beam solomon absolutely rip a massive squadron of craft to shreds

I was not expecting beaming the fighters to be at all effective but

[glad aurora]

the rail BB isn't real, multiple rail DDs, a rail Ocello, or a rail Axford are the use cases

[glad aurora]

this is also not true, I've seen Axfords melt to concentrated 450AP from properly built Ocellos and liners

[glad aurora]

I simply don't, they cannot pay me enough to try and wade through a storm of that many messages from that many people all happening at once

[azure lake]

If god wanted me to not put rails on the Solomon they wouldn't fit in the slots

(this is why I've been mostly messing with the AI so far, people don't need my stupid ass builds in multiplayer lol)

Especially since it's the fuck around phase after a new patch

[tulip vault]

I mean, god did give you a -20% energy reload speed

[azure lake]

a minor setback

[random grove]

Rail BB isn't real any more

[runic torrent]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9rO_d9uM6k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFtcuIzoPSc

[wary flame]

pillars is actually good now

craft can punish camping in the same four spots forever and because the map is so small it turns into Plane Thunderdome

which means people need to bring less frontline to fit in craft and suddenly there's some space for ships to move on the map

[dark dawn]

Huh
I did notice it was more enjoyable

On that note, I gotta ask, has anyone made a good double Levy fleet yet? Fleet carriers seem somewhat less common on the ANS side and I want to try out their planes more

Even if they're just "OSP but worse"

And also in general what are some good ANS jet builds

[glad aurora]

fleet carriers are somewhat less common on AN because it's non-intuitively difficult to cringe a serious strike and ASF complement into 1500pts and then duplicate it

[tulip vault]

I do not feel like the ANS planes are just worse than the OSP ones lol

[wary flame]

the starter fleet configs for ANS are pretty good honestly

[tulip vault]

the OSP certainly has a lot of advantages in the plane department, but as usual, I do not really think unit quality is one

[glad aurora]

nah, the barracuda is indeed factually better in every way except RCS

[tulip vault]

the ANS fleets I've run into tend to have very decked out tantos, which levels the playing field when I'm just trying to have a density of ships a bit

but yknow, given what I've heard, that's the wisdom

it's less that the hulls are equal, more that the doctrine that (mainly misc) has described is the ANS throwing money at problems

[glad aurora]

yep

[wary flame]

the three grades of ANS fighter generally go:

Cheap: 2x S1 ACM, jampods or fuel, nose gun - will be carved up by equivalent OSP fighters, so this is relatively unpopular

Midcost: Starter fleet config - 1x cheap SDM-2, fuel tanks, 2x S1 ACM, nose gun - standard, effective, will struggle to fight while significantly outnumbered

Expensive: 1-2 CMD Lunges, then S1 ACMs

[tulip vault]

I'm sorry I was not more clear

[wary flame]

each can mix in a couple of coilguns per squadron to get a little bump

[chilly yoke]

Kinda wondering if I should give dual axfords with a hangar backpack a try

[wary flame]

cudas are just marvellous planes, almost all my tactical innovations have been me doing different stuff with barracudas

(and occasionally tantos)

[glad aurora]

classic and good fleet

[wary flame]

make sure to stick a VLS-2 on the side of one axford and a disco ball on the side of another, but that's rock solid

[glad aurora]

your backpack is 2 jampod coilgun tantos purely to kill unescorted bombers and provide softkill

[tulip vault]

goodness how do you fit 2 hangar backpack axfords in a fleet

[glad aurora]

You can even make one of 'em 4TC Spy

[tulip vault]

I could barely get a prepatch axford into 1.5k

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Disco Erusea' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

            Kim Kitsuragi : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun Missile PD EWar]
Raphael Ambrosius Costeau : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun EWar PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-200 Smoking Vape Canister : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [7pts]
SGM-200 Vren's Breadstick 3.0 : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE)/CMD - HE FRAG [7pts]

[wary flame]

replacing all the 120s on here with defenders does fine

it even has some S2s for your catapult fighters

[tulip vault]

ah, no ammo elevators and no dc

yeah okay that is an answer

[wary flame]

it has four, that's enough

in both cases

[tulip vault]

the AEs are fine

I don't trust the DC but, yknow

I just hate small dc lockers with a passion

[wary flame]

speed is life

I love them

I can get all my DC for way less

[glad aurora]

Misc's version has ADs and breadsticks, I chose to go with 4TC Spyglass on one for mine and trust in my softkill + being 10km away from the enemy at all times

[tulip vault]

I guess they're less bad now that every ship isn't as starved for component slots...

[glad aurora]

raider axfords at 10km bowtank orbit dodging is the "don't touch me" button

[wary flame]

really you shouldn't greedford these, the greed config is for play with a stacked-up Levy player who can park an extra half-dozen fighters on top of me

which is well worth doing, since the 120s supplement the dogfight, but requires a fair amount of coordination

[runic torrent]

@stone carbon gonna give you the role so you can see the channels when they open

[glad aurora]

in the absence of an extra wing of tantos, moving everywhere with a BB and its PD escort or two more conventionally PD'd axfords is very good

[misty storm]

am i cooking chat

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Carrier + Caps' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

Split Amino : 'Levy' class Escort Carrier [PD Missile]
 Epic Upset : 'Raines' class Frigate [Sensor Missile PD]
 Seven Puff : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD]
Silky Royal : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
Ample Deuce : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 6 different missile types:
```yaml
          SDM-225 Tornado : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE FRAG [4pts]
     SGM-111 Night Dances : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-171 Tribble Container : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
             SGM-190 Bolt : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
 SGM-H-377 Black Amnesias : CRUISE - PSV(EO)/PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [29pts]
        SGT-375 Truncheon : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[PSV(WAKE)] - HE SHAPED [10pts]

[misty storm]

slight modification

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Carrier + Caps' is composed of 6 ships that cost 3000 points:

Split Amino : 'Levy' class Escort Carrier [PD Missile]
 Epic Upset : 'Raines' class Frigate [Sensor Missile PD]
 Seven Puff : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD]
Silky Royal : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
 Glad Vista : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
  Ace Spear : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 6 different missile types:
```yaml
          SDM-225 Tornado : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE FRAG [4pts]
     SGM-111 Night Dances : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-171 Tribble Container : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
             SGM-190 Bolt : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
 SGM-H-377 Black Amnesias : CRUISE - PSV(EO)/PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [29pts]
        SGT-375 Truncheon : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[PSV(WAKE)] - HE SHAPED [10pts]

[misty storm]

the sequel (osp)

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Carrier + Caps' is composed of 6 ships that cost 3000 points:

 Sent Prowl : 'Journeyman' class Light Carrier [Gun PD]
  Dual Atom : 'Draugr' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
 Rare Sense : 'Draugr' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
First Spade : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
  Level Sea : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
 Ruby Brave : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
```This fleet uses 6 different missile types:
```yaml
          SGM-101 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
      SGM-122 Nechako III : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
       SGM-151 Sechelt II : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-171 Tribble Container : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
           SGM-247 Slider : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [8pts]
             SGT-350 Mace : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [14pts]

[misty storm]

I probs won’t be there for boats, something came up

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'T30 Line + Plasma Ocello' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Ada Lovelace's Number Dungeon : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Plasma PD EWar Sensor]
     Former Crypto Mining Rig : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Gun PD EWar]

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Four-Riders-Improved' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

 Jack of Endings : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Gun PD]
Queen of Glutony : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Gun PD]
King of Conflict : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Gun Sensor PD]
  Ace of Pleanty : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Gun PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-106 Ember : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]

[supple sonnet]

do folks think this is enough anti-craft stuff for this fleat?

[glad aurora]

What anti-craft stuff?

I mean, 100flak is very good, but you have no softkill and no PD aside from a handful of anti-hybrid AMMs, so you're just going to have to play balled with someone else who does have those things

(which is exactly as one would expect from a quad-LN fleet)

[supple sonnet]

well the AMM's are more anti-everything with a decntlay chunky warhead. but yeah I was thinking the 100 flack would be enough to like fend off like smaller strike groups. but yeah it has to play balled up or at least behing a screen.

[misty storm]

can rockets work alongside torps as a cheap penaid?

[glad aurora]

you're using corktorps fired at 3.5-4km from a target vessel, you don't need to penaid them

one KBU-22 for DT break, that's it

also, do not use pure CMD on an OSP bomber, you'll never hit anything bigger than a Raines (and even then it'll depend)

[misty storm]

i see

ill figure out a better bomber setup then

lemme see what the full carrier starter uses

[supple sonnet]

I have learnt my lesson: Do not flakmaxx. It doesn't care about fighters enough and it leaves you woefully vulnerable to missiles. :(

Flak is tuned to like deal with s2, rockets and not much else you like need defenders for like torps or to like use like swarm defence

Yeah. I just wanted flak to do things against craft but.. No they don't care for them. :(

[wary flame]

the thing about flak is that it does not scale linearly, once you hit critical mass everything that gets anywhere near dies

two axfords with 2x RCC each and all rebounds willl just melt anything, a single Axford is vulnerable

[supple sonnet]

Oh..

[glad aurora]

what kind of flakmaxxing are you doing

[supple sonnet]

Right now I'm looking at a Solomon with 6x Stonewall and 3x Rebound and.. It er.. Didn't do much.

Do I need 120mm flak?

[glad aurora]

no

buffed rebounds > stonewalls, unintuitively

and rebounds must be buffed or they're not useful

[supple sonnet]

Ah. This is an energy ship so.. Not much space for er..

[glad aurora]

Post the file?

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Black Betty' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

   Alabama : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Beam PD Sensor]
Birmingham : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGT-310 Crusher : DIRECT - ARAD(RADAR)/ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [10pts]

[glad aurora]

ah, that's easy fixes

1. all rebounds
2. parallax mandatory
3. use drives that give you buffs, not drives that are just chilling there - for a beam BB, raider and whiplash
4. you have way too many reinforced DC lockers - grab yourself a couple rapids, an aux steering, and/or a second CIC altogether (aux steerings are great tankiness on the cheap)
5. your escort Tantos should be coilgun+jam pod, they are not used to strike anything - they're softkill and anti-container PD supplements
6. drop the energy regulators and get yourself minimum 2RCC 3AE

unbuffed rebounds are very bad

(which also goes for your cap sprinter, get that lad a defender and a chaff+AMM VLS instead of its rebounds)

also, a sprinter will never have the chance to use both restores in a LDC with how quickly they die and how much damage they take from missiles

[supple sonnet]

On point 5, I'd rather use a Halberd or two because of its detection capability.

[glad aurora]

also, reinforced magazines are free so long as you've only got one mag

for the sprinter

(all #1 magazines are free)

[glad aurora]

Sure, 35mm+ELINT basic radar skiff is a good shout

[quiet quiver]

@misty storm Levy + caps or Jman + caps were both pretty damn solid fleet archetypes in testing, it's just the micro requirements were way too much for a starter fleet. "Make a new difficulty above HARD" level

[wary flame]

Jman + Caps, if being played to its maximum potential, is rough even for the best cap players in the world

Mathblob is pretty much uncontested as Best Cap Player, we were talking the other day and both of us agreed that in order to get Journeycaps to really run smoothly you need to be totally in the zone

attain Plane Zen

[supple sonnet]

This feels very weird to me but.. This should be right?

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Black Betty' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

   Alabama : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Beam PD]
Birmingham : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Black Betty' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

   Alabama : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Beam PD]
Birmingham : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]

[glad aurora]

oh, uh

I didn't mean drop all your FPAs for it

(you also put the wrong size of drive in)

[supple sonnet]

No I put the smaller size in because it has better buffs.

[glad aurora]

you cannot afford for your drives to get shot out in a ship with a maximum effective range of 5km

also, the large drives produce more power

[supple sonnet]

Also I did mean to put in 2FPA. I'm just bad at this. x.x

[glad aurora]

nah, don't worry about it

[oblique jacinth]

,0 3FPA or 2FPA 1ER?

[glad aurora]

3FPA

4FPA is ideal, but you may not be able to fit it

[supple sonnet]

I should know this stuff, I was tutored by Gamma!

Also, 2254 total RPM Rebounds.

[glad aurora]

I also would not recommend a Mk64 sprinter, the design you had before was perfectly fine with swapped PD and a downgraded DC locker

[glad aurora]

And that's flakmaxing

absolutely nuts amounts of 50mm in the air

[supple sonnet]

Right, time for massed refits.

On this fleet? The 3 Rebounds are on par with the 4 Stonewalls. What the hell will this do with 7 Rebounds?

[misty storm]

Yeah….

I like the idea of the archetype but that was my main thought

[wary flame]

I'm not quite as good as Math, but I can give them a fight and I've spent a lot of time working on Jcaps

it's a great time, but for new adherents I recommend running something like Journeyman/2x2 TALS tug/2x cap shuttle to decrease the number of elements you need to micro

[misty storm]

do you have an example of that?

[wary flame]

let me go make some tugs

[misty storm]

Tyty

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Double levy cosplay' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

     Ghoul Okay : 'Journeyman' class Light Carrier [PD]
    Tubed Ankle : 'Journeyman' class Light Carrier [PD]
 Grid and Stern : 'Draugr' class Clipper [Missile Gun Sensor PD]
Reset and Bread : 'Draugr' class Clipper [Missile Gun Sensor PD]
   Dime of Fons : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
```This fleet uses 6 different missile types:
```yaml
           SDM-111 Ranseur : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [9pts]
            SGM-1 Chasseur : DIRECT - ARAD(RADAR) - NONE [2pts]
         SGM-101 Hobgoblin : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
           SGM-113 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-120 Carian Retaliation : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]
     SGT-301 Sunday Coffee : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [14pts]

[glad aurora]

... hm. actually, no, probably not a good idea for a first-time carrier player

it's not really arcane or super cringed, but you need to be very conservative with the torptugs and you can't afford to lose your ASF

[quiet quiver]

Tanto??? Claymore???

Hazel, please

[glad aurora]

Hazel knows it's double levy + torp sprinters 🙂

What else but double levy is putting out 8 bombers per deck cycle

[quiet quiver]

... Oh right I thought this was a bug but you just renamed the craft, didn't you?

[misty storm]

weirdly enough, runinning half and half seems like it would be more doable to me since its two different gameplay styles to focus on as opposed to just a lot of one, but thats probably not the case lmao

also, do you have an ans equivalent of that (as in, easier half carrier half caps)

[glad aurora]

Ayup

[glad aurora]

half carrier half caps is most AN capfleet carrier fleets

the average cap levy is 1400pts

[misty storm]

i meant like

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Levy and Caps Release' is composed of 6 ships that cost 3000 points:

         Moralist Aerostatic : 'Levy' class Escort Carrier [PD Gun]
Inexplicable Feminist Agenda : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Beam PD EWar Sensor]
       Kingdom of Conscience : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
         Insulindian Miracle : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
              White Mourning : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
        Wasteland of Reality : 'Sprinter' class Corvette []
```This fleet uses 7 different missile types:
```yaml
           SDM-220 Naginata M7R-X : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE FRAG [5pts]
                SGM-1 Repo Freeze : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
                   SGM-100 Guylet : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
               SGM-108 Smoke Ring : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - NONE [1pts]
    SGM-200 Smoking Vape Canister : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [7pts]
     SGT-363 Fraudulent Salad Oil : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[PSV(WAKE)] - HE SHAPED [12pts]

[misty storm]

the same idea of that specific setup that misc mentioned

[wary flame]

levy, plenty of ammo for S2 strike or basic ASF, cappers

beam for luck

[tulip vault]

wait since when has there been a lock heading to track button

[misty storm]

Ok thanks

[junior heron]

pretty sure that was from the update before carrier

[quiet quiver]

I think fresh new coat of paint patch

[glad aurora]

lock heading to track plus ocello turret adjustment during carriers testing was such terrific QoL

made playing dodgecello so much easier

[quiet quiver]

Yeah confirmed, on May 28th

[misty storm]

I’m curious, in the world of carriers, has the MMT morphed into something else or has it stayed the same

[wary flame]

same MMT, maybe with a few more 2pt blast frag missiles

[misty storm]

I see

I’m curious, is s2 cruise sdm on carriers that can go around rocks a thing?

[glad aurora]

no

[misty storm]

I see

[glad aurora]

SDMs exist to be spammed repeatedly at things that are trying to kill you en masse, really

[misty storm]

Just tryna figure out what’s a good use of the bottom mount on the journeyman

[glad aurora]

TALS with breadsticks

[misty storm]

Breadsticks?

[glad aurora]

.

[misty storm]

I see

[quiet quiver]

What Misc said, there's also an alt-MMT which trades the MLS for a TALS

[quiet quiver]

TALS (anti-craft), VLS-1 , MLS (light cruise play), or just PD

[misty storm]

Any progress on that?

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'CMD TALS Journeycaps' is composed of 7 ships that cost 3000 points:

I Have A Hammer : 'Journeyman' class Light Carrier [Gun PD]
     Gash North : 'Draugr' class Clipper [Gun PD]
 The Paved Club : 'Draugr' class Clipper [Gun PD]
Flo N. Phillips : 'Draugr' class Clipper [EWar Gun PD Sensor]
      Whim Lone : 'Draugr' class Clipper [EWar Gun PD Sensor]
  Clean of Nate : 'Ferryman' class Clipper []
     Tenth Twin : 'Ferryman' class Clipper []
```This fleet uses 9 different missile types:
```yaml
            SDM-220 Naginata M7R-X : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE FRAG [5pts]
                 SGM-1 Repo Freeze : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
              SGM-100 Front Window : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
 SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
              SGM-108 Smoke Ring-L : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - NONE [1pts]
              SGM-108 Smoke Ring-R : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - NONE [1pts]
   SGM-200 Smoking Vape Canister-L : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [7pts]
   SGM-200 Smoking Vape Canister-R : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [7pts]
SGM-208 Experimental Vape Canister : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [11pts]

[wary flame]

Jman is a little stripped down but the warbler in each tug pair means you are very resistant to S2H corvs

the way these S2 cudas work is that you arm either the L missiles or the R missiles at any one time and make two separate strikes, each of which will have one S1 flying ahead of one S2 to soak AMMs

12 ASFs and 40 SDM-2s will keep the edge off a Levy but you can't exactly go hunting it

[misty storm]

Ok thanks

[sharp crow]

since boat night is soon: please leave a spot for me for game 2, I won't be home for game 1

[runic torrent]

I shall make sure of it

[sharp crow]

go to bed.

[sly glade]

it's 3pm in canada??

[junior heron]

and?

[runic torrent]

bed always a good idea v_v

<@&942093958551588904> opened the boat night channnelsss

[sly glade]

she does definitely spent a lot of the daytime hours in bed that's true

[random grove]

I wanna boat but I am too tired after shift
We hope everyone else has fun though!

[glad aurora]

I would boat but the gigantic post-update fight night is in less than an hour and I'm going to be on that win grind

[runic torrent]

the children yearn for THE WALLL

[chilly yoke]

I am too eepy to join, have a good boat night!

[wet root]

"Why isn't D point being capped?"

[glad aurora]

I am sweating my ass off in this blood bowl 😔

[low pier]

42k damage 1 lost craft out of 24 my god

[supple sonnet]

BB Gaming

[oak shell]

hmmm

[quiet quiver]

That was a bunch of fun, TY for the games!

[junior heron]

yeah! thank you too!

so now that testing is over, can you share the funny bugs? :P

[violet root]

Love me a hedgehog

[quiet quiver]

A few, as I remember them

Like when Lys forgot to include map textures in the daily build and everything in the map was bright #FF00FF magenta. Both in the tacview and visual view

Another one, back when bombs were much cheaper someone discovered (in testing range) you can run out of explosion VFX. Approximately 3/4 of a Solomon glowed like a star, the last 1/4 had no VFX

Uh, what else...

When the Pike's EO went from a pod to a ball the ball had the physics collider enabled, which would strongly physics push the Pike at all times, including when launching from the carrier so it would also shove the carrier around

Not a bug, but 250mm gunpod was briefly experimented with for the Sturgeon. To keep it from being OP the ammo count was set pretty low when first added... at 5. When someone asked why the two un-attached pods had 5 ammo total, it was changed to 4. But roughly everyone had the feeling that A) if it was viable it'd be oppressive and B) Sturgeon already had enough fun toys, so it was eventually removed rather than buffed

(I also thought it was a daft idea)

@junior heron Hope these satisfy

[tulip vault]

the average sturgeon has 1.2 children

[wet root]

This is my favorite one, Stance: Evasive (Locked)

[quiet quiver]

Also these two patch notes are in fact somewhat linked/related to why SDM-2 is BF-locked

• CHG: Modular missile fuzes are now only active in the final stage.
• NEW: Added random 50m deviation to initial position "guided" missiles without seekers are fired at when fired from craft.

Unguided HEKP SDM-2s hitting ships at the speed of the boost stage

More a combo of exploits than a bug

[wet root]

It's weird to me that the SDMs are specifically BF-EL locked, rather than allowing normal BF

Was that just a technical matter?

[quiet quiver]

SDM-1s weren't really worth it at just BF, and for technical reasons it was either one or the other

[wet root]

No 1-point SAH SDM-1s for me :(

[quiet quiver]

They also initially had 1 pt missile body, that went away after swapping to EL

[wet root]

Is there any reason to use normal S1 BFEL on craft now? SDMs seem strictly better

[quiet quiver]

Mostly that they fit in bays

[wet root]

Ah, didn't realize they don't fit there, thought it was only VLS-1s

[tulip vault]

yeah SDMs are only wing mounted iirc

[wet root]

Huh, just realized 35mm slugs can't even break Shuttle armor, guess they need to strip it a bit first

[tulip vault]

I think part of the thing is that they fire so fast that if you're using the subsystem target it'd theoretically burrow through

but yeah that does not really seem to be the most useful feature

[quiet quiver]

Yeah, it's recommende to use ATGT to pick a subsystem and concentrate fire

[wet root]

I need to figure out how to do that lol

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Solomon Beams P-VOL-ACT-ACTAK' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

The Hanged Man : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Beam PD EWar Sensor]
  Six of Wands : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Sensor PD]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
SDM-227 Dynamic Recontextualizor : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/[PSV(WAKE)] - HE FRAG [12pts]
    SGM-166 No Thank You, Please : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
   SGM-284 Situation Complicator : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/[PSV(WAKE)] - HE SHAPED [10pts]

[supple sonnet]

bote

[quiet quiver]

One of the fighter buttons says ATGT, it cycles through no-subsystem, sensors, offensive weapons, defensive weapons, and engines. (Order might be wrong)

[wet root]

Ahhh

[quiet quiver]

And "engines" will target both thrusters and the drive modules

[supple sonnet]

updated our old beam solly with some extra scout planes and adjusted the SoW to match

[glad aurora]

have you been given the Breadstick, 17

[supple sonnet]

i have no clue what you're talking about

[wet root]

If you can fit another mag in there that might be nice, I've noticed now that red magazines don't provide ammo until repaired it's easy to lose your PD if you only have one

[tulip vault]

that part is odd; I get it, even if I do wish the behaviour was split up

[quiet quiver]

(Also don't ask me what counts as an offensive/defensive weapon if it's not a gun or PDT)

[glad aurora]

@radiant sable the secret arts

[wet root]

Huh, didn't realize Citadel Mags are faction locked, I thought ANS just didn't have slots that fit them

[tulip vault]

huh

also <@&942093958551588904> as mentioned at boat night, anyone feel like some pubs?

[wet root]

I could likely do a pubulous

[tulip vault]

I am down to pub it up with fewer people but I also half recall you having a pretty negative opinion on random pub teammates, so

[wet root]

Yeah, I prefer to have a full stack for team games in general

Especially with Dota, but even for Neb

[supple sonnet]

i---- okay. hold on. question: why did osp get a new, exclusive weapon (and variant), a native comm jammer, and an entire extra new ship

fucking-- and their light carrier is 2/3rds the size of ans'! weren't the lineships meant to fill their carrier role?

the Warbeler is becosue otherwise they just died to bomber launched CMD torps, and the light carrier is ment to let you do a half carrier fleet, with the Con-L being the fleet carrier for them.

wasn't that meant to be one of the big gaps in capability between ans and osp tho? and wasn't the littler line ship meant to fill that role, too??

Littler line ship? and there is the ANS smallcraft's only advantage is that they have a lower RCS.

the mauruader

vs the moorline as their heavy carrier

[glad aurora]

OSP is the carrier faction as AN is the missile faction, as the design goals were explained

[wet root]

I'm guessing the reason that ended up not being the escort carrier is you can't really fit any hangars in it

[glad aurora]

Thus, OSP gets the fancy carrier tools

[wet root]

(Or, well, not many)

Or whatever the word they use for internal craft storage is

[tulip vault]

yknow I was going to say something about pub ship design seeming more baseline sane this patch but it's offset by:
a) the actual craft loadouts

and b) whatever this is:

so many planes

honestly I am seeing some tech that I didn't even realise; as it turns out you can just, mount one missile of the two, despite what the diagram claims

[glad aurora]

yep

[azure delta]

missile lodouts also don't need to match

there's probably some incredibly terrifying things you can do with this.

[junior heron]

you stlil playing now?

[tulip vault]

I sure am

[azure delta]

anyone poked using antiradiation anti-missile missiles against jammer missiles?

...also, thoughts on standard antimissile payload vs EL antimissile? EL seems... ridiculously expensive?

[junior heron]

lol, the purple flashbang is amazing.
Running out of explosions reminds me of some dota particle bugs.
Thanks for sharing Tech!

[quiet quiver]

Oh shit forgot this one, possibly the best one

[glad aurora]

I'm not allowed to share my favorite bug meme 😔

[quiet quiver]

Yeah not that one

[tulip vault]

i've chosen an unfavourable engagement

[junior heron]

pretty favorable for me though

[misty storm]

i am so sadge i missed boats, i had a family event come up

[violet root]

Saaame

[radiant grail]

Hey, I was interested in this but never had anybody else to play with

How is this game?

[oak shell]

It's pretty good

[violet root]

Very odd, tbh

As in, you don't get much else like it

[opal cypress]

I forgot how intimidating the fleet editor is

[oak shell]

Nebulous is good but there's a lot to it

[random grove]

You could say it's Nebulous

[rigid bison]

3k bb grindset

[bitter furnace]

https://tenor.com/view/nebulous-theoffice-the-office-michael-scott-whoknows-gif-13581955464910660635

[wet root]

For the plas/100 experts in here, when do you use each type of 100mm when shooting a partially- or fully-plasma'd ship? Is it always just HEHC and you only use the other munitions prior to application of plasma, or do you use HE/AP to get more pen depth on larger ships?

[mint sinew]

These days it's HEHC as soon as a fair amount of the ship facing you is fully stripped. Grape used to have a niche, but now that's just when it's out of 7.2km

[wet root]

Perfect, ty ❤️

[mint sinew]

If you want deeper pen you need a larger calibre

[wet root]

700 point Journeyman, this can only go well

What sort of plasma endurance do you tend to go for, btw?

[mint sinew]

In what context? Pure PLNs or plas/100mm turreted

[wet root]

Plas/100mm

I've currently got 13mins of firing time, but that feels a bit short

[mint sinew]

Somewhere in the 12-18min range depending how capital heavy I feel the meta is

You don't need a full match of firing for plasma generally, but you may need to be conservative about when you fire it at small targets

[wet root]

Hmm, maybe I'll bump it up to 17 mins, I probably don't need that much 100mm HE

[topaz jolt]

Aww, I missed all the Nebulous noises.

[dark dawn]

Noisebulous

[sharp crow]

@wary flame I was wondering, if most anti-craft missiles are some variety of ACT, does mixing in jammer pods save your stuff during engagements? are they smart enough to track incoming missiles vs pointing at enemy craft?

I know you've said clicking a missile makes everyone keep on missile killing duty, but does that extend to the jamming pods

[wary flame]

The jammer pods aren't very powerful, but it does reduce the hit rate of Act missiles by about 20-25% when you're just pushing a fighter wing through a hail of missiles from a VLS of similar. In a furball it will be worse than that because they're fixed forward and most missiles aren't coming in from the front arc.

[sharp crow]

25% isn't that bad

I was thinking of coilgun + jammer tantos as a general plane support option

[wary flame]

That's popular, especially for backpack fighters where the jampods can pull incoming missiles if they have arad or hoj

[sharp crow]

yeah makes sense

[azure delta]

...one can fit size 2 fighterkiller missiles on a tanto

[wary flame]

generally for dogfighting you want some missiles because a missile chasing a plane makes it go evasive, so you can then line it up with the guns

[sharp crow]

yeah but that comes back to like, wanting to mix coiltos with guntos. the guntos can carry the missiles

[wary flame]

backpack planes on ANS capitals are for murdering unguarded bombers, tying up fighter escorts so your VLS can murder newly unguarded bombers and messing with missile salvos, so they don't really care

and yeah, mixed gun crew can do different loadouts

[supple sonnet]

Personally I use backpack pads for recon craft.

[misty storm]

Is a backpack 450 a good option at all on an axford? More specifically in terms of tweaking/optimizing oak?

Since I don’t really like the double ocellos starter and thought to take a pass at oak too

[misty storm]

More specifically double axford, I’m fine with going from the ground up

[arctic magnet]

might be out of date, but I don't think so. You tend to bow tank a lot so the rear 450 will be largely out of action

couple things I've done in the past is a disco ball, a 250mm, a missile backpack, and now you can fit in a hangar with two skiffs

[wary flame]

these days there are so many good utility options for the backpack slot that I don't see many 450 turrets, but it probably isn't any worse than it used to be

double skiff is just extremely good

[misty storm]

i see

in an axford pair, should you only go 1 skiff backpack or is 4 skiffs the best option

i assumed 2 skiffs and a vls

but i could be wrong

[wary flame]

that works

it's really to taste, although I would probably have at least one SDM or breadstick backpack in there

unless you're running double flakmax

[misty storm]

this is what i got (literally just oak with the backpacks swapped)

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Double Axford' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

 Ten Sword : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun PD Sensor]
Sharp Card : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun PD Missile Sensor]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
          SDM-225 Cyclone : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE FRAG [4pts]
SGM-171 Tribble Container : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]

[misty storm]

couldnt really fit anything but guns on the skiffs

[supple sonnet]

I appreciate the "Tribble Container" name. :3

[misty storm]

yeah

thats my ceremonial arming missile

the cyclones are just the default s2 sdms from the starter fleets

im sure theres something better

[misty storm]

what would you reccomend for this?

also the skiff setup

[wary flame]

VLS-2, however many 5pt basic SDMs as you can reasonably afford

skiffs get elint and 35mm and are told to do what they do

also just saw an S3H splash seven cudas at once, this pub war is fucked

[tulip vault]

what the fuck lmao

honestly

if that works consistently I might try it

[misty storm]

Would you mind posting the SDM?

[lime jungle]

SDM-220 Naginata M7R-X is a size 2 missile that costs 5 points.

[misty storm]

Gotcha

[misty storm]

Pyrope was taking about the immortal death snail frag container last night

[misty storm]

yeah the elint is too expensive lmao

idk what to do

[supple sonnet]

Am I being stupid over ranges.. Or does 50 mil flak just.. Not care about craft?

[arctic magnet]

welcome back AIM-54 Phoenix

[supple sonnet]

On the other hand, oooh, AA torpedoes.

..Why did I think 50mm flak had a range of like 3km? No it's 2km.

From our limated experince in boat night it dose wonders at swatting craft away

Josie | System at 63 ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) Am I being stupid over ranges.. Or does 50 mil flak just.. Not care about craft?

Which means I need to get heavy AA instead of medium AA. :V

Or well 100 flack dose 50 flack has like no rnage

and like yeah most PD has a short range

Is it much worse to have only 113 RPM on the AA guns? Absolutely. But 7km range.

[misty storm]

not sure how to fit in some SDMs here

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Double Axford' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3004 points:

 Ten Sword : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun PD Sensor]
Sharp Card : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun PD Missile Sensor]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-171 Tribble Container : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]

[misty storm]

isnt 5 elevators a bit much?

[wary flame]

4 works

[misty storm]

yeah

should i get gyros tho

[wary flame]

also remove skiff hangar, replace with interruptor

[supple sonnet]

with like diminishing returns it's not that much more then 4 yeah

[misty storm]

ah, ok

[supple sonnet]

I wonder, does 120mm RPF do a good job of heavy AA?

[misty storm]

kabam

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Double Axford' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Sharp Card : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun PD Missile Sensor]
 Ten Sword : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SDM-220 Naginata M7R-X : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE FRAG [5pts]

[supple sonnet]

Answer: With the new AI, I can test this by hand! :3

nope, it's OK for things that can't fit PD or to prefire at small ships wiht direct missles but other then that it's vary mid

Josie | System at 63 ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) I wonder, does 120mm RPF do a good job of heavy AA?

Aww..

I mean, in a strict sense, 5" falls into DP territory. We don't have heavy AA in game.

oh 250 RPF and Sarissas are your heavy AA in neb

250 RPF is not heavy AA, that is full-on DP. Heavy AA is the like.. 80mm range.

well more 90mm but still. Same difference.

[misty storm]

is gyros worth it here?

[wary flame]

personal taste

I generally prefer a fifth AE

[misty storm]

fair

but like

eh i feel like going lower on sdms might be a bad idea

[wary flame]

really you want 30+ but this will do for now

[misty storm]

i see

wdym for now

[wary flame]

throw them at things and see

personally I would cut DC and take more missiles but my axfords are consistently very DC-light

[misty storm]

ok

[glad aurora]

Not in the slightest, no.

Because frigblob exists, 120RPF on non-frigblob entities currently performs... rather poorly as AAA

[supple sonnet]

Mm. :/

Also, the problem with Sarissas is sure they have an 8km range but.. They're direct-contact.

[glad aurora]

With a muzzle velocity of "yes".

Nevertheless, if you're flakmaxing, what are the craft going to do to you from >2km? Shoot missiles at you? Fat chance.

You don't have to interact with the buzzing cloud of hate if it isn't going to be able to interact with you.

[misty storm]

are sarissas hitscan?

[glad aurora]

No. Auroras are.

[supple sonnet]

No but there muzzle Velocity is vary high wich is why the wiggle is mandatory for missles when they are on the feild

[misty storm]

i see

[supple sonnet]

Am I being too old-fashioned and thinking back to WW2?

[glad aurora]

Yes, Neb is Cold War.

[supple sonnet]

well the OSPN is WWII USN now, but yeah think more like Korea/Vitnam

Yeah I was thinking WW2 20mm, which was er.. Very bad when it's coming right at you.

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Kitchen Sink Garbage' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

Go To Horny Jail Immediately : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun PD Sensor]
        Nintendo DMCA Strike : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun PD]
The Expanse Filming Location : 'Raines' class Frigate [EWar Missile]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SDM-225 Mon3tr : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE FRAG [5pts]

[wary flame]

I suggest five guns on the CL, and four ammo elevators

250RPF is pretty mean these days

you can also bring maybe half as much flak on both of those, which will save a lot of cash

[chilly yoke]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/427974417495097354/1249759302294573087/mumu.gif

[glad aurora]

You also have a bunch of "free" 3x3s on the Axford (ammo elevators, FSS, and gyros can all fit in 2x2s, of which you have one totally unused), so you can go double drive and use buff drives instead

also: you forgot big drive on your Vauxhall

ah, your vauxhall is also covered in rebounds, so that means that you're going to need at least two RCCs to make said rebounds worth using

[azure lake]

should I pack sarrisas or 120 RPF for shooting at fighters ?

120 is a nice secundary battery but it sucks against containers and torps
sarrisas cannot shoot at ships

if am packing 450s already I suppose 120 would be the better choice

[glad aurora]

120 RPF is for shooting at clippers on capital ships, the fact that it also does chip damage to fighters and missiles is nice to have

[azure lake]

yeah but Im more worried about being swarmed by fighters

should probably look at stonewalls actually

[dark dawn]

So, good news, Carrier Fever seems to be ever-so-slightly going away and not everyone's running them

Bad news, Newbie Fever is alive and well

Normally when someone brings a pentabrick I expect them to rush the main cap and explode
Not do the exact opposite and not move from spawn for the entire game

[opal cypress]

I should really try to make a fleet and jump into a game

[supple sonnet]

all the modern starter fleets are preaty good generalist fleets for there niche

[misty storm]

eeehhhh

i wouldnt say every fleet is super good

the small ships dont have arming missiles, which ive been screwed by

[glad aurora]

arming missiles are cheesy and are explicitly banned from starter fleets as a result

[misty storm]

and the doulbe ocello fleet only has singel bulk mag, which screws you for the rest of the match if it gets sniped

[misty storm]

yes, this

but id still reccomend modifying them to taste after your first try with them

[glad aurora]

I also run bulk mags on my dualcello as well - you're just so starved for points and compartment space that you kind of have to, which is a huge deal now that red mags won't feed ammo

[misty storm]

yeah i guess

it just sucks

maybe it should be addressed in a patch?

idk

esp since that problem is now exasperated

cos im assuming that mags below 10% wont feed ammo now?

is what you mean by red mags

[glad aurora]

yep

[misty storm]

idk it just happened to me in a match and it was real annoying

[glad aurora]

I wouldn't call two days of patch release really getting to the problem, but if it proves to be a long-standing one, it can be addressed in the next patchulous cycle

[misty storm]

yeah

[sharp crow]

did double axford with a four coilgun tanto backpack in an AI game and actually just having these guys hover over the shoulder of something bigger makes them so much more effective

[wet root]

For a contrasting point of view, I have 2x reinforced mags on my Ocellos, because you really hate getting mag sniped and one mag doesn't have the space for enough 450mm

[glad aurora]

Yeah, I used to run that as well, but skipping out on the DC or the GPC are real painful

GPC especially for dodgecello, your hit rate goes up by so much with it

[wet root]

I much prefer less DC and more redundancy on the Ocellos, but that's personal taste

[misty storm]

yeah

[supple sonnet]

Lark runs Ocello DC like we run Liner DC

[misty storm]

gonna take a pass at the daulcello fleet and do 2x remag

[wet root]

They're just so vulnerable if you lose your mag or CIC, they'll often die before you can rep back up

[misty storm]

its 4 auoras tho, is that really the meta now?

[glad aurora]

DCC is very valuable with how reinforced and how long Ocello noses are

yes

5 auroras if you don't want floodlight utility

(I do)

[wet root]

(Agreed 100%, GPC is non-optional)

[wet root]

I can see that, especially if you don't have any rapid DCs or aren't using nose aux steerings

I also use primarily Sarissa PD, so that makes the double rmag more important

[glad aurora]

this is what I ran in carrier testing / continue to run

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Ocelloposting' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Rowdy : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
 Hook : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-101 Hobgoblin : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]

[misty storm]

i came out to... this???

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Double Ocellos' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

   Union Fang : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
Shining Glory : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]

[misty storm]

needs some refining

[misty storm]

do you have an updated version for carriers?

[wet root]

My current "updated version" just packs more sandshot in, I might stuff some anticraft missiles in at some point

[junior heron]

@wary flame @quiet quiver carrier question: does the levy come with a built-in craft repair station?

[wet root]

It does

[glad aurora]

all carriers do

[misty storm]

could you. post please.

[quiet quiver]

Levy, Jman, and CLN all get one for free

[junior heron]

second question: is this mentioned anywhere?

[glad aurora]

right-hand stats card

[quiet quiver]

You can see repair stations listed if you scroll down to carrier stats on the right column

[wet root]

Will do when I'm out of bed lol

[glad aurora]

Yeah, this works

[misty storm]

ok

[wet root]

Oh, you can put the Bullseye on the back mount and it can lock through the bridge btw

Which helps it survive and frees up a PD mount

[misty storm]

eh

this is mostly just a modification of the starter fleet so i dont wanna go too crazy

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Deaf to All but the Song - Hangup Version' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

    Amplify Echo : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD Sensor EWar]
Ill-Starred Dive : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD Sensor EWar]

[wet root]

Is there a consensus on recommended formations for different craft applications? It seems like Wedge might be a bit more vulnerable to missiles and PD, for example

[glad aurora]

I just use Line for bombers and Cross or Wedge for light strike and don't think about it much

[glad aurora]

I'm starting to remember why I quit this game for months before becoming a tester

(not shown: the MDLN with zero - actually, genuinely zero - damage over the course of a 30-minute game)

basil and I tried our damndest but with me losing an ocello early to 9k of concentrated AN capitals, we physically could not carry hard enough

[noble zodiac]

SAH containers

oh dear

CMD containers

oh gods

[quiet quiver]

TBF, it does not look like the seekers are the issue

[wet root]

The idea of guiding SAHtainers in with craft-mounted illuminators is intriguing, but it feels probably too fragile to be a primary strategy

And ACT containers are already cheap enough as finishers

[mint sinew]

It's certainly on my to-do list once I get my head around more conventional craft use. Can't say wake primary was how I'd approach it

[wet root]

Cruise Gales plus craft illuminators is something I'm wondering about

Since that lets you get a lot heavier S2 strikes than craft alone can bring

[wet root]

Based on the name, at least half of those were scout missiles, presumably they didn't realize missile cam is kaput

[quiet quiver]

I actually saw a cool cruise gale monitor plus pike illum fleet in early testing, it did good work but I never saw it again

[wet root]

I think @olive blade has one that predates carriers (using shuttles), I expect to run into a modernized version of that one of these boat nights

[misty storm]

what are some good backpack options for an ocello post carriers? already got an interruption on one

[quiet quiver]

Basically same list as before, but also a VLS-2 for ACMs

[glad aurora]

backpack backpack,

• interrupt
• possibly lyrebird
• vls-1-46
• vls-2 with breadsticks

[wet root]

If you don't have something you specifically need the big slot for, it's the best spot on the ship for the Bullseye

[mint sinew]

I'd refined one myself with shuttles and it was quite good if my team brought any scouting assets (so rarely in practice)

[random grove]

I keep seeing "breadstick"
What's a breadstick?

[mint sinew]

One of the munitions distributed by the former carrier testers

[quiet quiver]

A specific design for an anti-bomber S2

[random grove]

I see

[quiet quiver]

Kills bombers in one hit, has pretty good interception range

[sharp crow]

the perfect osp light carrier

[arctic magnet]

up there with the greats like USS Langley

[dark dawn]

Man
I'm still wondering if I should fit a Moorline with an intel centre

80 points is a lot, but with how reliant strikes are on knowing what you're hitting

Hmmmm

[sharp crow]

I think if you're building a 3000 point ship you are morally obligated to fit the intel center

[olive blade]

yeah I might well update it

the loss of 3pt gales really hurt the concept though

tbh

[dark dawn]

I mean-
If you can offer assistance there then I'll take it

Oh it's 90 points now

Right, took some squeezing, and now I don't have Pikes anymore
But I managed it

[runic torrent]

https://youtu.be/ZhMdrJ9qJ9A?si=8cwn8uJyW13AuyZ1

[noble zodiac]

always has been

[supple sonnet]

That's from the Bay server. Wow.

TheLastShogun ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) :nyagony:

[dark dawn]

I forgot where it's from honestly

[misty storm]

any pointers on how i can improve this? not switching from 2 remags tho

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Double Ocellos' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

   Union Fang : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
Shining Glory : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD Missile EWar Sensor]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SDM-220 Naginata M7R-X : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE FRAG [5pts]

[misty storm]

only four ammo elevators feels lacking but that might just be me

[oak shell]

I never install more than four
They have diminishing returns

[misty storm]

I mean

4 ammo elevators and no gyros

[wet root]

How's your power situation? You might be able to replace the FR4800 with a Sundrive plus Micro in the 3x3x3, since you don't mind going a fair ways over 100% in an Ocello

Your guns will turn off while the Auroras fire but that's fine

And Sunraider is exceptionally good

[misty storm]

I’ll check in a sec

[runic torrent]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTgexPZeuMs

[random grove]

Devs: it's an escort carrier, please don't run it alone
Nebulous playerbase:

"it's not alone, it has the swarm"

[misty storm]

3k levy is a great meme but I don’t feel like you have the pad throughput to do it well

Like you can do 3k moorline but that has literally double the pads

So

If you wanna do full carriers on ans go 2 levy

[noble zodiac]

3k levy but its like 40% yub with the c2 slots

[misty storm]

lmao

how many missiles is that anyways

[misty storm]

thats like. 20 extra points i dont have

like this?

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Double Ocellos' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3040 points:

   Union Fang : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
Shining Glory : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD Missile EWar Sensor]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SDM-220 Naginata M7R-X : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE FRAG [5pts]

[quiet quiver]

Up to 128 with VLS-2

[sharp crow]

@arctic magnet this is what I was talking about

[misty storm]

Wow

[quiet quiver]

It's 80% of a Raines's payload

[misty storm]

I wonder if that’s actually a good idea lmao

[wet root]

Personally I would swap one of the RDCs for a small, if you're getting hit in the side enough to lose the small DC having an RDC won't help anyway IMO

[quiet quiver]

There is a 3k Levy build called Yubbenheimer that saw good success both in testing and post-release

[misty storm]

Ok

[misty storm]

Oh

[sharp crow]

god

[wet root]

But my approach to Ocello DCs is notorious: #1164000873031151637 message

[sharp crow]

the yubbenheimer

what a name

[quiet quiver]

A fleet brought to you by the same mind as Zurglegurglebergenstein

(ZGB is a yub CLN with nothing but submunition boxes and a few skiffs for scouting)

[sharp crow]

wonderful

[wet root]

OSP should be able to mount a box on the bottom of a craft as a disposable booster

[misty storm]

something like this?

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Double Ocellos' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

   Union Fang : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
Shining Glory : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD Missile EWar Sensor]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SDM-220 Naginata M7R-X : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE FRAG [5pts]

[sharp crow]

as a listbuilding exercise I tried to approximate the double levy with 24 bombers across them that someone posted a victory screen of further up

[misty storm]

theyre at 110% and 107% power respectively

[sharp crow]

and man is it hard to keep a bomber levy under 1.5K

[oak shell]

There are some wild plot twists in this match

[wet root]

That's definitely fine for an Ocello

[wet root]

Seems reasonable to me - there's definitely some room to futz around with DC and loadout, if I were running it I would probably go for a Lyrebird over the missile backpack, but that's very much just personal preference

[misty storm]

im curious about balance of chaff/flares to breadsticks?

[wet root]

Having only a single CIC makes me somewhat wary, but it's probably fine with the aux

Just a bit awkward since aux steerings don't let you bowtank

[wet root]

No idea on this one

[misty storm]

ok

[glad aurora]

cringe harder

DC is fake, reactors are fake, what's PD

[misty storm]

Isn’t the best mount layout the bullseye on the backpack, chaff box on the front, and vls/interruptor on the bottom back mount?

[wet root]

Really a matter of personal taste - what goes on the back is just what you want shot the least, that needs a big slot

Chaff box I prefer a bit further back since there's some risk that missiles will go through the chaff and still hit you if it's too far forward

[misty storm]

I see

[wet root]

Be wary of putting it on the backpack though because sometimes missiles will catch the bridge when going for chaff

IMO there's a pretty good argument to have the Bullseye on top on one Ocello and on the bottom on the other, helps give you better coverage when switching targets

[wet root]

2 minutes in and the 3k Levy has a basic CIC. :concern:

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'ANS - 2x Carriers' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

    Live Laugh Lothlorien : 'Levy' class Escort Carrier [PD]
Passing The Bechdelf Test : 'Levy' class Escort Carrier [PD]
```This fleet uses 4 different missile types:
```yaml
SDM-220 Naginata M7R-X : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE FRAG [5pts]
        SGM-100 Guylet : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
        SGT-332 Winter : DIRECT - ARAD(RADAR)/ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [13pts]
        SGT-333 Summer : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[PSV(WAKE)] - HE SHAPED [12pts]

[sharp crow]

I made it to one defender each.

[glad aurora]

That's only 8 bombers

You could put that on one Levy

[sharp crow]

it's 12

[wet root]

Isn't it 12?

[glad aurora]

ah, whoops

you can still put 12 on one levy, but then you have a fairly small fighter wing

[sharp crow]

yes. it's 12 bombers, times two levies

not 12 total

as much as I enjoy the names I don't think I'm gonna play this list any time soon, I need way more normal planes practice

[wary flame]

it's not quite so beautiful as that these days because of some changes in arcane AMM interactions but bulldozing through the AMM screen with 4-6 S1s usually still gets you some S2 hits

currently I'm optimizing the Green Storm, which is SAH S2 hellbomb

[glad aurora]

oh

lmao I really am an idiot

I saw 8-2 split in Hangar 1, then for all of them also 8-2, and missed that Hangar 2 reversed the split

[sharp crow]

yeah I wanted even numbers across all of em

for the forseeable futue I think I'm just gonna do all tanto gaming though, until I feel comfortable with the controls and fighter gameplay

[wary flame]

CMD S2 tanto gaming is a good time

I've had very profitable double Levy games with that

although it does get kinda beaten up by the modern high-ASF environment

[misty storm]

ASF?

[sharp crow]

unhinged baracuda blobs do seem like a recurring phenomenon

[mint sinew]

Aerospace Superiority Fighter: craft designed to kill craft and keep the void clear

(acronym may vary)

[misty storm]

Ah

Shouldn’t it be VSF then?

[mint sinew]

Probably but half of the community used existing terms never get flipped from their existing context. E.g. it took until an actual SEWAC was added for people to stop dubbing their dedicated spotters "AWACs"

[wet root]

ANS has spaceplanes, aerospace fits :P

[mint sinew]

Any spacecraft can be an atmospheric craft once

[quiet quiver]

There were so many discussions in tester chat about use of air or void or some secret third thing

[wet root]

Hmm

If I have a bunch of cheap Barracudas and 100mm Flak

Do I really need real PD?

[tulip vault]

I’ve been adamantly calling my anti-craft loadouts void superiority

[wet root]

Mine are just all labeled ACRAFT

[mint sinew]

An on aspect pavise has been saving my LNs butts against moderate, escorted craft strikes, but I'm certainly not running nearly the depth of PD I might otherwise

[sharp crow]

honestly PD does feel a little fake now. I haven't seen anyone shoot a missile that wasn't a) anti-craft or b) a torpedo from hell that is not going to get shot down

[wet root]

I've used some offensive S1s from my Levy but I've used that fleet in anger precisely once

[azure delta]

...you can screen- ohno
you can screen a size 2 missile with size 1 AMMs? a

[oak shell]

I do want to take my gale bricks back in and see how effective they are

They need some anti-craft defenses first, though

[wet root]

My biggest concern with Gale fleets right now is IDK how they avoid getting mulched by enemy craft

yeah

[sharp crow]

surely your anti craft defense is the inevitable carrier player on your team

[wet root]

I really need to test how effective this 750-point nothing-but-anti-craft 'Cudas Journeyman is

[sharp crow]

especially if your gale bricks are OSP

[oak shell]

Yeah, gale monitors with 600mm

[sharp crow]

yeah

just get your friend's baracudes and you will be safe

[oak shell]

Raines are not tough enough to earn the title of brick

[wet root]

Apparently 600mm bombs are rather rude against craft

[oak shell]

The gale fleet always did rely on my team to screen and tank for me

[wet root]

So you have some nice synergy with a friendly CV

[sharp crow]

otherwise you get the pass to flame your moorline player

[wet root]

(Haven't tested it myself, but that's what I've been told)

[sharp crow]

yeah I've had a lot of fun escorting tron's old gale/MD monitor group with ocellos. now you could do that with small craft

I'm sticking to ANS carrier play for now though. at least in a levy list I can bring a vauxhall and always contribute

[wet root]

Do extra antennas draw power when they're not needed?

[tulip vault]

Oh man I forgot about that fleet

I should honestly try that again now that I can outsource my pd even harder

I do also just need to try my container monitors again

Hellbomb submunitions were entirely ineffective

[oak shell]

You can make bomb submutitions??

[wet root]

These are the options:

Sadly you can only fit one R-3 in there

[oak shell]

Budget OSP hybrid

[mint sinew]

You can get 2 if you really crank up the warhead

[wet root]

No, it just makes it cost more

It still only has 1

(Unless the stat screen lied to me)

[mint sinew]

huh, thought I saw it tick over. Let me double check

Nope you are right, the second doesn't fit you'd need one more tick of warhead

[deft current]

What’s a R-3?

[oak shell]

A big rocket

It's only launched by submunition containers and the OSP's bomber

iirc

[quiet quiver]

Yeah

It's roughly a torp but unguided

[deft current]

I see

Also

How many Gs does a Fighter-Fighter Missile need?

[wet root]

Hmm, I was wondering why Neb was chugging a bit in the big post-carrier fights, apparently my CPU came out 13 years ago

Maybe it's getting to be time for an upgrade

[runic torrent]

hey as a report to send back to liz

I think nebulous tutorial 1 maay be subtly broken? it's supposed to highlight each part of the ship panel on the bottom right but it only highlights the damage control board

[quiet quiver]

Huh, that actually might've broke with the DC board update in May last year

[runic torrent]

ah, could you send it up the chain?

it highlights -only- the dc board

it doesn't highlight the weapons or the posture panel when she talks about them

[quiet quiver]

Sent it along

[bitter furnace]

This is the canonical way to say it, that’s how it’s named in the second carrier tutorial 😉

[supple sonnet]

So it turns out, when you get within 5km, a triple beme Sol is very funny.

[azure lake]

Yes

It's a big if tho

[supple sonnet]

Sure, but it's.. God it's so satisfying to just BAAAAM people.

[azure lake]

It sure is !

To people who know how to voidcraft

If I want to backpack a pair of escorts on the Solomon how would I build them?

Their only role would be as extra pd for the Solomon

[sharp crow]

coilgun tanto with fuel pods and jammers

[wary flame]

that's the setup

you can get four in a Solomon backpack so I recommend either four of those or 2 tantos and 2 Elint skiffs

since those are very cheap scouts for the team

that kind of escort won't be enough to dogfight, so I recommend arming the central bay with either an Act/[CMD] weave S2s for slapping small ships or a breadstick frag S2 for putting a huge dent in bomber squadrons

[sharp crow]

my experience with missiles on the escort planes was that they'd just fire them off as soon as humanly possible

and that they'd wander off to go fight into huge blobs if you weren't paying attention

[azure lake]

Wait 4?!

But there is only two slots tho

Am I missing something

[sharp crow]

the backpack should be able to fit a large hangar

[azure lake]

If I miss clicked in the medium one I'll

[azure lake]

Awesome awesome

[oblique jacinth]

Not proxying because that duplicates Lt. Hazel, but I saw a ship (maybe a fleet?) like this in a pub and.. It's been making me so confused.

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Warboss' is composed of 2 ships that cost 2500 points:

Thunderbolt : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Gun PD Sensor]
  Lightning : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Gun PD Sensor]

[supple sonnet]

Is this person onto something, or should I avoid copying?

[olive blade]

I would not bring two intel centers

for one

and I dunno what the point of this is

its a fleet that does nothing to big ships which seems pretty awkward since those are popular

only HE is wrong, I dunno

I'm not sold on this one

[supple sonnet]

Well the important bit is the T30 spam.

[olive blade]

I think you want plasma

if you are doing t30

I'd say at least 4 plasma between the two ships

[supple sonnet]

Oh, with OSP 450, do you need to bring AP, or can you get away with just HE?

[olive blade]

you need AP

[mint sinew]

You need AP for Solomons and bow tanking Axfords

[mint sinew]

One of the OSP starter fleets had a pair of turreted marauders (not sure if it stuck around in the new patch).

The usual recipe is 2-4 T81 plasma turrets 6-4 T30 100mm turrets and 0-3 C53 250mm on the roof. A pair of those will mulch anything that they can get inside 7k range safely (unless it gets close with a beam)

[supple sonnet]

Honestly that sounds really fun. Imma try that!

[glad aurora]

They're called "obelisks," quite fun

[wet root]

I really need to do a test run of my Hammerheads

[mint sinew]

They are a blast to play. Treat them as skirmishers that want to duck and weave through cover until you pop out at murder range of the enemy.

You need to point your roof at the enemy so take that into account when building your internals. Tanky bits on top (e.g. damage control complex, citadel magazine) and important things at the bottom of the stacks (e.g. cics)

[wet root]

Which take advantage of the -1 degree of minimum elevation for lineship turrets from this patch to bowtank with every single turret on the ship shooting the enemy

(And a bunch of reinforced components in the nose for bonus tankiness)

[quiet quiver]

So, if you're doing pure 100mm, AIUI if you use pos-fire on AP you can armor drill as long as your manual aim's good

[wet root]

I'm hoping they obsolete obelisks

[quiet quiver]

And if that stream of bullets hits structure then you can rapidly give a Solomon a very bad day

[mint sinew]

You and your target need to be near stationary for that unfortunately

I guess Solly's aren't known for rapid displacement

[toxic scaffold]

If you want an example you can use ours as a template

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Testulas-Tripple-Threat' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Parlament of Fools : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Gun Plasma Sensor EWar PD]
 Inequality Street : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Gun Plasma Sensor EWar PD]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
                SGM-106 Ember : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
   SGM-140 Scarlet Rose Petal : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [4pts]
SGM-200 Vren's Breadstick 2.0 : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE)/ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [5pts]

[supple sonnet]

They are ""Modernized"" but only just so there is a lot of room for tweaking in the modern post carrier enviroment

The big thing that they have is the right layout so there pinpoints can aim at the same targets as the 250's

[misty storm]

wtf

[supple sonnet]

So er. It turns out that OSP don't flakmaxx well. :(

[misty storm]

Plas 100 and bringing a dog instead of having the intel on the liners is so much better

Cursed

Not saying this at you Cassie, I know this isn’t your fleet

But like wow

[deft current]

Wait should I even use 100mm grape when 100mm flak now exists?

[misty storm]

Well, grape kills sprinters

And I don’t think flak is like rpf?

Not 100% sure how they differ

[supple sonnet]

Flak has a timed fuse not a proxmity one

[glad aurora]

They do, actually! It's just that there's specific hybrid tunings that "skip" through flak when they stage

If you bring 100mm flak to supplement your Bastions, then you have an easier time with hybrids because you shoot them down before they stage

(I also bring AMMs anyway just in case, alongside softkill)

[supple sonnet]

Well I was seeing issues with missile -hordes-, where it just didn't have the volume of fire.

[glad aurora]

Elaborate? That should be what flak's best at

If they hit critical mass where flak doesn't work, then it's softkill or die

[supple sonnet]

It was like.. 20 missiles or something? And about 10-20 Bastions (depending on what had view) just.. Didn't do the trick.

[glad aurora]

... weird, that shouldn't be happening.

[supple sonnet]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. On the upside like.. I didn't get turbomurdered by it, but.. Still lost one of my liners to it.

directaly to the missles? or to gunfire after being stunned?

[deft current]

So what’s the best Fighter-AA missile build?

[supple sonnet]

To the missiles.

[deft current]

Like Fighter v Fighter

[supple sonnet]

I think it was to a second missile barrage after the first had done some damage.

[glad aurora]

Were they missiles that were going very fast, or missiles that were going slow?

[supple sonnet]

Fairly fast, but not hybrids.

[glad aurora]

SGM-2s?

[supple sonnet]

Probably, yeah.

[glad aurora]

yeah, flak should tear 20 of those to shreds.

Oh well. Can count that as a fluke for now.

[supple sonnet]

It honestly fee- Wait I have Steam recording, I can review the footage.

[deft current]

Anyone can help me with that?^

[wet root]

It still has the extra range and better muzzle velocity for poking corvs

[wet root]

I suspect nobody knows yet lol

[deft current]

Well I do have one that one-shots any craft but with 6pts it’s pretty darn expensive to use in mass dogfights

[supple sonnet]

Oh no, they were hybrids, good call A&G! They're SGM-H-222, so I need standoff.

[deft current]

But essentially…
How much damage do you need to take out a fighter for example?

Like how does DMG against them work?
Like normal HP or?

[wet root]

6 pts per craft is a good trade, especially if they have any munitions on them

[deft current]

No no no
6pts per missile

[wet root]

Yeah, but if each kills one enemy craft

[supple sonnet]

AMM's or 100 flak are your main potions for OSP for anti hybred work. with some grazers to thin out any leakers

Josie | System at 63 ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) Oh no, they were hybrids, good call A&G! They're SGM-H-222, so I need standoff.

[wet root]

Craft interceptions might be decent now too? Need to test further, see how well flechette skiffs do at taking down hybrids pre-staging

[supple sonnet]

Is there any any ANS craft that has more than 30cm but less than 45cm of armour?

effective or actual?

Effective. And.. Sorry for not checking myself, in a fleet.

A lot of craft can get past 30 cm with good angling