#Nebulous: Fleet Command

1 messages Ā· Page 24 of 1

azure lake
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Soft kill still ?

quiet quiver
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Alliance likes softkill more, OSP likes hardkill more

mint sinew
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Generally: Heavy softkill, some 20mm

azure lake
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Aight

quiet quiver
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But also layered defense is still good

mint sinew
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OSP softkill is very important too, you just need to watch for CMD missiles

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Decoy boxes going down to 2 sec launch time means you can use them reactively like an Active Decoy

azure lake
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It's the return of Softkill Solomon babyyyyy

azure lake
quiet quiver
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Ye but that doesn't work for clippers if they're not hanging around a MN or up

mint sinew
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Very true. Also arguably true for ANS lights as nobody really brings CMD jamming with their cap elements

azure lake
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I can't wait to get my hands on the panes

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Need to do maths on those suckers

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Wait dies OSP have a good CMD jammer ?

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I don't remember

glad aurora
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on the Ocello, yes

azure lake
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Well, yeah but you know what I meant šŸ˜„

mint sinew
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ANS and Ocello only

azure lake
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I really need to make my AMNs CMD again

wary flame
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lately I've been sticking dazzlers on all my OSP frontline fleets because people are really leaning into the EO spam

mint sinew
#

Dazzlers have been giving good mileage lately

glad aurora
lime jungleBOT
# glad aurora In preparation for the Era of Craft

Fleet 'Type 45posting' is composed of 1 ship which costs 580 points:

Creed : 'Raines' class Frigate [PD Missile]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
          SGM-233 Yard Sale Sign : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [10pts]
SGM-274 Legally Distinct RIM-174 : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [8pts]
Type_45posting.png
glad aurora
#

(the offensive missiles are irrelevant, they're just standard ACT/[CMD] shuttle bonking devices)

lime jungleBOT
# glad aurora

SGM-274 Legally Distinct RIM-174 is a size 2 missile that costs 8 points.

SGM-274_Legally_Distinct_RIM-174.png
glad aurora
#

once the frigate could hardkill a full salvo of 6 CMD HS cork S3H fired at it from 4km, I decided it was ready for planes

quiet quiver
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Mount gyros for the PD, huh?

glad aurora
#

I figure it'll be valuable for the Sarissa, yeah.

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Could always cut it to save points, but you're not really going to get under 550-600 for the whole fleet picket package.

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That said, assuming a kitted Levy is 2k as an escort carrier, you can probably fit one of these and 1-2 corvette assets in.

wet root
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I'm a bit skeptical of the scryer on a softkill-less boat

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But otherwise a fan of the PDbox

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Might go with S2H (and probably a few more of them) for the offensive options personally, a salvo of 2 S2s is kind of sad

glad aurora
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Oh, I wasn't even going to give it offensive options at all. It shouldn't actually need them if it's sitting next to a carrier, that's just to make it not auto-surrender in testing range.

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Scryer's there to take advantage of the Spyglass to let You, The Player, know how to softkill missiles.

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It's a bit over power (~200?) so if you drop the scryer it'll also be in-power.

topaz jolt
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I have a Spyglass Keystone with a Missile thingiee of only 2. And it can still do a lot. Even against heavy PD.

wet root
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The opportunity cost is pretty low, and the increased formation flexibility is quite valuable

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That will partly depend on how many defensive S2s you end up needing though, and we have no idea there

glad aurora
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You can fit up to 24 in the C3, but who knows, we may actually need that many if the attempts at CV sniping are aggressive

misty storm
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This is good tech but we donā€™t really know how much an outfitted carrier is gonna cost? In the footage we saw a carrier with a sprinter so

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Assuming this frig is meant to defend a Levy

supple sonnetBOT
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We do think that it depends on how much anti shipdefence armaments they can aford to bring and how easaly low calibur guns will chew themup

mint sinew
misty storm
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Yeah

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My expectation would be about the same as a battleship?

supple sonnetBOT
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It's an escort carrier and not a fleet carrier so problay closer to an axford

misty storm
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Maybe?

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But you gotta carry the craft and a bunch of missiles

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Can you do a worthwhile battleship for 2,420 points? /gen

supple sonnetBOT
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True but also it's gotabout 1/4th the launch capacity as a ConL fleet carrier

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Thats around what the Queen of Hunger cousts

PunchBunnyā€„ā†©ļø

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) Can you do a worthwhile battleship for 2,420 points? /gen

misty storm
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I see

misty storm
supple sonnetBOT
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Yes it would my apolagies

misty storm
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I would probably expect around battleship levels of point cost for a well outfitted escort carrier, maybe a tad less

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I just didnā€™t know how many points a battleship tends to take

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I just knew ā€œ3000ā€ to ā€œyou can fit a sprinter inā€

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Which the footage we saw in the Devlog had the carrier + a sprinter

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So my rough estimations are based off that

supple sonnetBOT
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We are relay taking that wiht a grain of salt as there is a lot that we just don't know likeif that lone spinter was the onlyother shipin the fletoreven if they might have been a seperate players ship

misty storm
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Yeah

wet root
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I'm expecting significantly cheaper than a sollie for an escort carrier, given we know ConLs have both twice the launch capacity and additional interior craft storage

supple sonnetBOT
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And also Vauxen run from1 k to 3k

misty storm
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Although Iā€™d doubt 2 levys in one fleet would be feasible

wet root
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So unless ANS craft are a lot pricier than OSP, it has to be pretty cheap or you won't be able to fully outfit a CLN in 3k

mint sinew
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Yeah, that's my other main concern. If the CLN ends up reasonable to fully kit in 3k

junior heron
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you know what this means:
2x carrier pub fleet incoming

misty storm
#

Oh god

supple sonnetBOT
#

We think it will vary much depend on what you load them out with. HEKP s2's can eat up a lotof points

PunchBunnyā€„ā†©ļø

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) Although Iā€™d doubt 2 levys in one fleet would be feasible

misty storm
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That would be a micro nightmare

supple sonnetBOT
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Stupid question: What's a ConL carrier?

sharp crow
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this is my decoy carrier that has no aircraft

wet root
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The OSP get a carrier variant of the container liner

misty storm
misty storm
junior heron
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mentioned at 8:00

misty storm
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Iā€™d be led to assume itā€™s a module

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He does say variant but I doubt itā€™s a separate hull

wet root
glad aurora
lime jungleBOT
# glad aurora

Fleet 'Type 45posting' is composed of 1 ship which costs 675 points:

Creed : 'Raines' class Frigate [PD Missile]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-274 Legally Distinct RIM-174 : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [8pts]
           SGM-H-213 Scout-B-Gon : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[PSV(EO)] - HE SHAPED [16pts]
Type_45posting.png
wet root
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Given the specific internal craft storage on the carrier version

junior heron
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also with looking at it: looks like the big banks have the same hangar bays as the smaller banks

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so probably 2x big container bank, 2x hangars

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will be a loadout

wet root
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I definitely hope you can mix though

misty storm
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Correction, he says configuration

junior heron
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box boat going through a crisis

misty storm
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So itā€™s def not some seperate hull

glad aurora
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ACT/[ARAD] might be better than ACT/[EO], but either work

misty storm
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The bigger sockets have the same number of pads but Iā€™d assume a bit more space to store things

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But yeah, combination craft and container strikes are gonna be nasty

wet root
misty storm
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Esp if youā€™ve got craft shooting the amms that are going for the containers

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Anti Anti Missile Missile Missiles

wet root
glad aurora
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[CMD] track inaccuracy off an unadjusted spyglass means you can actually validate chaff occasionally

misty storm
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True, but that means OSP has to have access to illuminator pods

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Which

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Maybe?

glad aurora
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at least that's how I recall it works

misty storm
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Wasnā€™t confirmed

wet root
supple sonnetBOT
#

It was showen in the load out options for the OSP strilke craft was it not?

PunchBunnyā€„ā†©ļø

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) Wasnā€™t confirmed

misty storm
misty storm
wet root
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(Also, midnight, gn)

misty storm
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But if you can shoot SAH boxes at something, get your craft in position in time, and get the illuminators on target without getting the craft shot down and not illuminating chaff on accident, good on ya

misty storm
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So, in the name of cheap SAH boxes, you have some fighters, maybe 2 with illuminators, and you pincer em with the containers

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Hell you could go SAH on the fighterā€™s missiles too, or just use rockets or bombs, depending on taste

quiet quiver
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Yeah

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Sorry for ping, was scrolled up

supple sonnetBOT
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Oh, thank you.

PunchBunnyā€„ā†©ļø

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) Container liner with the new hangar bays instead of container banks

misty storm
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what are some typical backline fleets for osp nowadays? i know like MDs or missiles but what form does that usually take

glad aurora
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MDLN
fit as many eregs as humanly possible
multiply by two
have monitor with bloodhound, ewr, 4xTC, ARR
fill in any remaining space with AMMs

misty storm
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hrm, i thought that going full MDs was a bad idea?

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if im going mds, i think id like some sort of more active compnent

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like the triple railstone + axford tech that ANS has

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im curious if theres some equivalent thats good on OSP

glad aurora
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there isn't

misty storm
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yeah thats fair

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is osp missiles just gales still? i heard that CLNs still arent amazing

wicked mirage
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Boat night?

runic torrent
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<@&942093958551588904> channels open

oak shell
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I am up for boats

glad aurora
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I guess I could boat if we're doing PTB

wicked mirage
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Yay

wicked mirage
wicked mirage
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<@&942093958551588904> I went to go get a snack what happened :c

quiet quiver
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People had to dip for stuff

wicked mirage
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Gotcha, dang alrighty

glad aurora
#

we weren't ever getting a second game anyway

wicked mirage
rigid bison
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really wanted to join but I'm in a game of Twilight Imperium rn sadcowboy

wicked mirage
#

all good

glad aurora
wicked mirage
rigid bison
#

I'm looking forward to the Carriers update. Not only has it got me hype to play Neb again, it's got me interested in playing OSP since they have something interesting of their own

misty storm
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@wicked mirage would you mind helping me out with my ans fleets like you did with my osp fleets sometime soon? i am available for ~30 mins if you wanna do it now

wicked mirage
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Still available?

misty storm
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uhhhh 1 sec

wicked mirage
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I just now saw this

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lol

misty storm
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yeah no, too late for me, sorry

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we can do it tomorrow or some other time

wicked mirage
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I'll have some time tomorrow probably.

misty storm
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yeah

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i can post my ans fleets now if you wanna take an initial look from hazel, but i cant get on vc

misty storm
wicked mirage
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Yeah sounds good

misty storm
lime jungleBOT
# misty storm idk if the first 3 are like, real comps, and they were from when killjoys were r...

Fleet '250 CLs + Utility Sprinters' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

Heavy Medal : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun EWar PD]
Vocal Query : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun Missile PD]
Great Wader : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD EWar]
 Smoky Rage : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD EWar]
Outer Agent : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun Sensor PD]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-171 Tribble Container : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
          SGM-244 Tornado : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR) - NONE [7pts]
250_CLs__Utility_Sprinters.png
lime jungleBOT
# misty storm idk if the first 3 are like, real comps, and they were from when killjoys were r...

Fleet 'Beam DDs + Softkill Escorts' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

Bound March : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Beam PD EWar Sensor]
 Sound Veil : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Beam PD EWar Sensor]
Stark Humor : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Beam PD EWar Sensor]
  Able Tune : 'Raines' class Frigate [PD Gun Missile]
 Deft Story : 'Raines' class Frigate [PD Gun EWar]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
  SGM-113 Parry : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-244 Tornado : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR) - NONE [7pts]
Beam_DDs__Softkill_Escorts.png
lime jungleBOT
# misty storm idk if the first 3 are like, real comps, and they were from when killjoys were r...

Fleet 'Support Axford + Triple Rails' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

 Irate News : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun PD Missile EWar Sensor]
Muted Plier : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail PD]
 Rare Flask : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail PD]
 Upper Wild : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail PD]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-171 Tribble Container : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
          SGM-244 Tornado : DIRECT - NONE - NONE [6pts]
Support_Axford__Triple_Rails.png
lime jungleBOT
# misty storm idk if the first 3 are like, real comps, and they were from when killjoys were r...

Fleet '450 CH + Utility Escorts' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

 Right Will : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun PD Missile Sensor]
Molar Steel : 'Raines' class Frigate [EWar PD]
  Home Echo : 'Raines' class Frigate [Gun PD]
  Icy Depth : 'Raines' class Frigate [Gun PD]
 Iron Quiet : 'Raines' class Frigate [Gun Sensor PD]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
            SGM-113 Parry : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-171 Tribble Container : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
          SGM-244 Tornado : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR) - NONE [7pts]
450_CH__Utility_Escorts.png
wicked mirage
mint sinew
#

Not Pyrope, but jumping in too:

  • since the rebalance splitting large DC into 2x smalls is generally better if you have spare slots like in the vauxhalls
wicked mirage
supple sonnetBOT
#

Reinforced Thrustsed Nozles are not usefull for there ponts coust and yuo can aford DC for the last Sprinter if you get rid of them, letting you flank with it

LT Hazelā€„ā†©ļø

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) Fleet '250 CLs + Utility Sprinters' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

Heavy Medaā€¦ šŸ“Ž
wicked mirage
mint sinew
#

Your vaux group also doesn't have any bullseyes, having at least one helps with jamming/hunting small ships a lot

misty storm
mint sinew
#

2x gun Vaux + 2x jam sprinters and a lockvette is a nice mobile hunting force, just need to make sure it can find prey safely

misty storm
mint sinew
#

They do different jobs, killjoys hooking an entire squale salvo for 7 points is massive return

misty storm
#

Yeahā€¦ thatā€™s fair

mint sinew
#

Where a handful of AMMs won't do much to a massive S2 dump which is your big threat

misty storm
#

Ok

mint sinew
#

The killjoys could become active decoys for a similar role if you want to strip the vls-2

misty storm
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Do I just fire it like an offensive missile at the s2 dump? Iā€™m assuming i canā€™t press z on it and get it to fire right?

mint sinew
misty storm
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I see

wicked mirage
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Welp, looks like the Carrier testers got selected.

image.png
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It's what I get I suppose

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A thousand good turns and one bad moment is all it takes to have it all undone.

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Oh well. I know that lesson very well.

mint sinew
#

Also depends on how large the queue of tester candidates is, I know there is a lot of hype for them so I wouldn't be shocked if the tester application list is a long one

supple sonnetBOT
#

Sorry erm.. What're Killjoys?

wicked mirage
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They're meant to draw off salvos of ACT or SAH missiles with HoJ backups and softkill entire salvos by themselves.

supple sonnetBOT
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Ooh.

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..Is it bad that I do HoJ[ACT] and not ACT[HoJ]?

mint sinew
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Confirming that you mean HOJ with ACT validation? That ultimately won't do much as the ACT Val will be jammed

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HOJ/ACT and ACT/HOJ (dual seekers not validation) ultimately do about the same as the jamming will trigger the failover

wet root
#

HoJ/ACT doesn't risk catching chaff at the last moment, but ACT/HoJ is a bit more resistamt to getting pulled by an offset

supple sonnetBOT
#

Sorry yes, dual seeker, not validator.

noble zodiac
misty storm
wicked mirage
misty storm
#

ok

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no rush

wicked mirage
#

@misty storm Heya! I'm free now!

misty storm
#

ok

misty storm
wicked mirage
#

fhgsdfhg

wicked mirage
misty storm
lime jungleBOT
# misty storm This is what i noodled out for axford + rails

Fleet 'Axford + Railstones' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

Alone Ruler : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun PD Missile EWar Sensor]
 Boss Entry : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail PD]
Comic Roads : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
Royal Choir : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-171 Tribble Container : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
          SGM-244 Tornado : DIRECT - NONE - NONE [6pts]
Axford__Railstones.png
noble zodiac
#

SGM-171 Tribble Container
0/10 false advertising, not a CM-400 container missile

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(/lighthearted)

misty storm
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fair

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i was just trying to come up with a funny name for a ceremonial arming missile and thats what i came up with

noble zodiac
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oh its hilarious and great i love it

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its just

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very funny that its called a container while being an S1

misty storm
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yeah

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this is the correct config for a killjoy right?

image.png
mint sinew
#

You often want a bit more speed/acceleration to get clear of your ship faster, but it's good. Can we see the controller settings?

noble zodiac
#

you probably want more agi yea

misty storm
misty storm
mint sinew
#

Stick it on hot launch, again for clearance

misty storm
#

ok

noble zodiac
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i would almost go max agi on the triangle, because you really dont need a lot of range on these things

misty storm
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anything else?

noble zodiac
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nah its all good aside from that i think šŸ‘

misty storm
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ok

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is there info on the cannon naming scheme for containers?

noble zodiac
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at least not as far as i know

misty storm
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ok

misty storm
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word from mazer, rockets on craft are considered direct attack weapons like guns, so they can target modules

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also yes targeting modules is still a thing

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mazer posted a vid of ANS fighters attacking the sensor panels on an axford with 20mm

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it didn't do much

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but yeah

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#409638848302153732 message

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also he posted some real cool concept art #409638848302153732 message

rigid bison
#

Honestly the ability to effectivly posfire 100mm accurately at systems seems quite powerful into ANS small ship fleets

mint sinew
#

Targeted 20mm strafing runs after some plasma hits will likely also be unpleasant. They won't have the depth for the core but it seems a great way to lose all your radar/pd on one side

tulip vault
wet root
mint sinew
wet root
#

Can you see the concept art from the preview?

random grove
tulip vault
#

Thaank you

rigid bison
oak shell
#

Will fighter backpacks be available on bulkers?

mint sinew
#

Absolutely, the same pad that fits on the back of an Axford fits on the back of bulkers or the big mounts of monitors

misty storm
#

well, youre gonna get one (1) fighter per c4 mount id assume

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so one fighter might not do much

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id assume you want a skiff if its just a single backpack

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but balling out and putting 4 on the backside of an LN.... šŸ‘€

mint sinew
#

A 4 fighter wing will likely be a pretty nifty backpack though

misty storm
tulip vault
# mint sinew

wait actually does this mean 20mm can damage ships now?

mint sinew
#

Always could apparently, you just can't intentionally target defenders/pavises at ships

misty storm
#

mazer said hes gonna decrease the accuracy on those 20mm guns

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since those are laser beams lmao

mint sinew
misty storm
wet root
oak shell
#

In the first carrier devlog, Mazer said the C4 mount hangar carried a single fighter.

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And in the second, that the OSP container-hangars could draw from internal compartments, implying the others could not

wet root
#

Oh, I had thought it was a single one of the larger craft, gotcha

oak shell
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I think the smaller hangars can only hold the smaller craft

wet root
#

I should really just re-watch the devlogs

wet root
oak shell
misty storm
#

the c4 mounts can take a fighter or a skiff

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or an osp scount id assume

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but not a SEWACS or a bomber

wet root
#

Ahh, I think I'd conflated skiffs and the larger ones

quiet quiver
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Mazer confirmed bulkers can take the c4 hangar

image.png
misty storm
#

Iā€™m def gonna try and make a battlecarrier LN

mint sinew
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You and me both. I have fleets in active use ready to swap the container stack backpacks for fighters

misty storm
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yeah

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you can probably pull off 2 battlecarrier LNs in a fleet but im curious what can be done with 1 + some escorts and/or other utility hulls

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you may want a nerdbox monitor with a bloodhound thats holds some scouts in the backline

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then... 1 or 2 tugs with some one armed bandits? Iā€™d expect you want to be using the fighters offensively and not for CAP as much

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maybe some type of defensive MMT variant

mint sinew
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A 250mm/fighter LN in an otherwise conventional cap fleet will probably do work, but we'll have to see where capabilities and costs end up for the specifics

misty storm
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right

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was thinking 450s but thats just me

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i wouldnt cal it a frontline fleet overall but could have some punch with the guns on the LN

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in terms of 2 battlecarrier LNs, i would expect ~1500 for one? so that checks out

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probs have one scout on em each

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since you cant take an extra monitor/tug to give tracks in that case

quiet quiver
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I definitely recommend watching

misty storm
#

wait

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ANS rockets???

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also is stopping to lauch craft intentional?

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i thought mazer said it was a bug

misty storm
quiet quiver
misty storm
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oooooh

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it was an s2

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also, that carrier got killed by a two S2s from full

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either it had like

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no DC, or carriers are really squishy

quiet quiver
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You can see the DC status in the vid

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1 team, 0 restores

misty storm
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lmao

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What counted that ship dead? Did the s2s kill every component at once?

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I forget what exactly makes a ship count as dead

quiet quiver
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Don't see the post-strike DC board

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But a ship is dead if it has either no CIC and no way to repair, or 0 power and no way to repair

misty storm
#

i see

wet root
#

Presumably a CIC kill if it had one rapid DC

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(Since they likely just had a basic, whereas engines can't get greyed out by missiles IIRC)

quiet quiver
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Small engines can be greyed at up to (but not including) 20% DR, large engines can't

wet root
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Ah, right

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(And for ANS specifically, IIRC OSP big drives are squishier. Though IDK if any of the ships that can fit them have a low enough DR for it to be relevant to missiles)

rigid bison
#

It is interesting to see that ANS are very easily able to have their bombers fire from standoff range of 20mm

quiet quiver
#

You can see in the devlog that both factions have standard s2 and s3 missiles on bombers that easily outrange 2km

wet root
mint sinew
#

Best I've ever seen a beam destroyer go on Nyx. Really shows the power of a "random blanket on ANS". I cleaned up a tugball, stole E and then picked apart a group of LNs without anyone being able to detect me in combat until I got flanked at the end

image.png
wicked mirage
#

Size 1 HEKP against Bulkers be like

image.png
#

This is a bad idea btw, it's not worth it just use a torpedo xD

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It's very funny though.

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At max speed and max warhead it'll go almost 100 meters through a Bulk Freighter before stopping lol

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Granted Bulkers are about 300 meters long lol, but hey that means it works side on too šŸ˜„

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Incidentally these have just enough armor pen to release just 1-2 explosions inside a Monitor. Which also incidentally, means these can break DT on a C90 due to how HEKP works.

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You have to hit the C90 directly though xD

#

I would post the missile file but it's literally just a max speed, max warhead HEKP S1 with CMD

#

It's a shame OSP doesn't have HEKP anymore, because these would actually be kinda cracked for Shuttles to carry against DD's

#

Regular S1's are fine too against DD's I suppose lol

wet root
#

Or rockets

supple sonnetBOT
#

..Would HEKP S1s work on Monitors?

wicked mirage
# supple sonnet ..Would HEKP S1s work on Monitors?

If you broke their armor first and hit broken armor they could go all the way through yeah xD but against monitor armor it will at most go in and do 1-2 explosions which can actually break the spinal mount, but beyond that the damage is pretty minimal either way.

misty storm
#

hm

#

im curious if missiles will inherit the speed that the craft that launches them was going at

supple sonnetBOT
#

Awhh. :(

wet root
junior heron
#

anyone around and up for boat night today?

#

I know I've missed the past few and it's been pretty quiet

#

but I'm actually around today

misty storm
#

Heck ye

quiet quiver
#

I'm up for it

misty storm
#

But Iā€™d be on later

runic torrent
#

<@&942093958551588904> opened the channels!

#

DX

#

waaah

quiet quiver
#

Ah TY Ash, was just about to

rigid bison
#

Iā€™ll spectate for the first few games but Iā€™m down

quiet quiver
#

I wonder what the most popular map is

image.png
misty storm
#

Oh uh

#

Could I get the role back? I donā€™t see the channels

quiet quiver
#

Done

misty storm
#

sigh i should make a cap fleet for both factions...

wet root
#

Or just use Tantalus (spelling?)

mint sinew
#

Tantalum, but yes a good OSP option

misty storm
lime jungleBOT
misty storm
#

also uh, what does a typical ANS cap fleet look like?

mint sinew
misty storm
quiet quiver
#

The corvettes can either be torp, gun, or empty

#

I like beamstones for goalies but some like 1 CL, I think I've also seen a missile frig goalie

misty storm
quiet quiver
#

Yeah Willow is a fine starting point

misty storm
#

it fits that description but theres just too many points spent on missiles it feels like

quiet quiver
#

I think it was even designed as cap fleet, though it's not as cap-focused of one as Tantalum is

#

But AN missiles are good, so...

misty storm
#

For this frig, is a spyglass and a pinnard too much? Feels like you want one or the other

glad aurora
#

they serve different purposes

#

you want a second pinard on at least one other sprinter

misty storm
lime jungleBOT
# misty storm this look good?

Fleet 'Caps' is composed of 8 ships that cost 3000 points:

   Top Yeti : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun Missile PD]
  Each Open : 'Raines' class Frigate [PD Gun Sensor]
 Vital Pact : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
  Comic Hem : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
  Boxed Cog : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
  Just Even : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
   Mono Mob : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
Elite Spade : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Sensor PD]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
  SGM-113 Parry : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-133 Counter : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [7pts]
SGM-244 Tornado : DIRECT - NONE - NONE [6pts]
Caps.png
misty storm
#

(tornado is a killjoy, wasnt really sure about the backpack option)

mint sinew
#

(backpack interupt is always appreciated if you can spare the points)

misty storm
#

yeaaaah

#

ill see what that brings me to

#

3 pts less actually

mint sinew
#

Spyglass Vaux with no bullseye is rough, I'd really try and fit one there or just go to paralax

misty storm
#

right

#

that was from anohter fleet

glad aurora
#

you really don't want double spyglass in a fleet, yeah

#

big whip small raider, too

#

between that and the radar you can go down to 2x micro

mint sinew
#

But I'm poking at individual systems. Structurally this has a lot of good cap tools, just lacking in punch up options

glad aurora
#

it has no punch-up options, you need a beam DD or two torp sprinters

misty storm
#

ok

#

i was mostly going off of TF willow but if thats better then sure

misty storm
mint sinew
#

You could do that, nothing wrong with a vaux in the "big fish hunting small ships" role

glad aurora
#

no, I'd drop three cap sprinters for it

misty storm
#

this is a cap fleet though

glad aurora
#

vaux, beam DD, spyfrig, double sprinter

#

that is a capfleet, you don't need 30 billion sprinters

misty storm
#

ah ok

mint sinew
#

Cap fleets are a spectrum, everyone is going to have their own opinions about what to do with them. (you can search back up here to see what monstrosity I use)

misty storm
#

i would prefer less micro if possible (sadly that is not possible on OSP and i just need to get good lol)

mint sinew
#

Tech's recipe is a good base, just with the added note that somewhere in there you'll need to answer "What if they park a monitor on the point I need to cap?"

misty storm
#

except a beam dd cant kill a monitor

mint sinew
#

OSP low micro cap warfare would look something like a pair of tug groups. Treat them like a dispersed ship and go around taking the lunch money of all the ANS light ships

glad aurora
misty storm
#

i see

misty storm
lime jungleBOT
# misty storm somehting like this? i could fit in another sprinter

Fleet 'Caps' is composed of 6 ships that cost 3000 points:

   Top Yeti : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun EWar PD]
 Rusty Puck : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Beam PD Gun Missile]
  Each Open : 'Raines' class Frigate [PD Gun Sensor]
 Vital Pact : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
 More Caste : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
Elite Spade : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun Sensor PD]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
  SGM-113 Parry : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-133 Counter : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [7pts]
   SGM-207 Gust : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [4pts]
Caps.png
glad aurora
#

six CMD or ACT/[CMD] 3g cork torps fired out of a CLS, nose 120, wing VLS with chaff and AMMs, wing 20mm

#

your keystone is way too gucci for a beam DD

misty storm
#

ok

misty storm
glad aurora
#

rip out everything that isn't the beam, beam accessories, and a couple 20mm turrets

misty storm
#

ok

#

did that

#

it doesnt need a parallax right

glad aurora
#

bullseye with the frontline if you can afford it, take a blanket for jamming just in case (more useful than you think)

misty storm
#

i still have like, 200 pts left over

lime jungleBOT
# misty storm

Fleet 'Caps' is composed of 5 ships that cost 2800 points:

   Top Yeti : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun EWar PD]
  Sound Bay : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Beam PD Sensor EWar]
  Each Open : 'Raines' class Frigate [Sensor Gun PD]
Muted Hobby : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Gun PD]
 Deist Mint : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-113 Parry : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
 SGT-351 Maul : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [17pts]
Caps.png
mint sinew
#

Vaux still needs a radar retooling

misty storm
#

oh, missed that

mint sinew
#

If you get to the end of building a cap fleet with 100+ spare points just slap in a sprinter to fit, even a mostly empty box has good utility

glad aurora
#

dragonfly on the beam DD unless you need whiplash for power

#

rip off the ARR

misty storm
lime jungleBOT
# misty storm

Fleet 'Caps' is composed of 6 ships that cost 3000 points:

   Top Yeti : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun EWar PD]
  Sound Bay : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Beam PD Sensor EWar]
  Each Open : 'Raines' class Frigate [Sensor Gun PD]
 Usual Root : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Gun PD]
Muted Hobby : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Gun PD]
 Zonal Wave : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Sensor PD]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
            SGM-113 Parry : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-171 Tribble Container : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
             SGT-351 Maul : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [17pts]
Caps.png
misty storm
#

got it

glad aurora
#

very solid capfleet

misty storm
#

ok, thanks

wary flame
#

thought this was @wet root for a second

image.png
mint sinew
#

New boat night meta: name all ships in the style of other regulars to psyops the opponents

wet root
#

Also Autumnal Waterfall and Last Remote are fleet names, not ship names

#

Highly important

wet root
#

And confuse people with the Autumn of the Storm (LN)

#

(To clarify, my decoys pull from all the ship names I've played against)

mint sinew
#

Just load the offside of a bulker with LN decoys, a great fun:points ratio

wet root
#

Alas, I am allergic to bulkers until that PID fix makes its way to main

mint sinew
#

Very understandable, may the minor patch move swiftly

quiet quiver
oak shell
#

Spy+pinard is my go to spotter frigate

wary flame
#

"chop wood, carry water, cap points" - Neb server regular Hardly, in response to three consecutive games being won by boring capfleets that did no damage at all while the frontline elements tore into them

#

need that on my fleet logo

misty storm
#

Do you ever want to evacuate a ship?

mint sinew
#

not really. Only edge case benefit I know of is to avoid losing comms while under fire in a friendly minefield (dead ships aren't valid but commsless friendlies are)

#

and several things have gone wrong to reach that point

misty storm
#

this is just that one osp starter fleet with the numbers filed off, but any optimizations i could make to this?

šŸ“Ž Caps.fleet
lime jungleBOT
# misty storm this is just that one osp starter fleet with the numbers filed off, but any opti...

Fleet 'Caps' is composed of 9 ships that cost 3000 points:

    Gutsy Stir : 'Flathead' class Monitor [PD Sensor]
    Oval Aisle : 'Draugr' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
    Sixth Knit : 'Draugr' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
    Tenth Gage : 'Draugr' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
     Zero Boot : 'Draugr' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
    Loud Title : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
      Lax Sand : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
Thousand Blade : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
     Fifty Pen : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
  SGM-113 Parry : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-212 Typhoon : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [8pts]
Caps.png
mint sinew
#

That's perfectly solid, any changes from here would be preference based so you should just play some games with it and see what you feel you want

misty storm
#

ok

quiet quiver
mint sinew
#

We're well trained in here to cap the points

quiet quiver
#

The funniest part was on Aorta, there was a request to mix up the teams, I asked my teammates who wanted to swap over and everyone else went eh, so I swapped and as a result AN had a cap player and OSP didn't

wet root
#

(It turned out exactly as expected)

misty storm
#

i may make an osp cap fleet thats a bit less micro but yeah, i know this works

#

i doubt you can do a proper osp cap fleet with 6 ships, which is what my ans cap fleet is

deft current
#

After watching the MP game start with the retro burn for the 9000th time I started to wonderā€¦

#

ā€¦what happens if you decide to just not stop?

#

Like are relativistic kill vehicles a thing in Neb?

#

Like canā€™t the OSP just fill a liner with explosives, a rough autopilot that just says "fly on that line" that happens to cross, idk, letā€™s say a ANS gate, and just crash into it?

#

And I think stopping a Liner that goes a few percent of the speed of C within interplanetary space without stopping is pretty hard to stop no?

#

I will name this Container Mk2 lol

#

Edit: nvm different Neb server told me this is STABLE violation and basically a warcrime

past light
#

I mean, basically any sci-fi setting requires a workaround and a bit of suspension of disbelief to avoid becoming all about slinging rocks. Any drive tech sufficient to propel a ship at relativistic velocities will have more destructive potential than any other ship-mounted weapons.

#

So IMHO it's best to just mentally separate the FTL and the STL realms unless a setting explicitly mixes them.

quiet quiver
#

Ship burn in/out isnā€™t even FTL, just orbital-speed STL instead of naval-speed STL

dark dawn
#

Yeah, 'proper' FTL is done via gates/wormholes

deft current
#

APFSDS is just basically very spicy and advanced rock

deft current
deft current
deft current
quiet quiver
#

My headcanon is that space drag is real and can hurt you

past light
quiet quiver
#

Battlespaces for whatever reason are draggy zones and if you go at interplanetary speed into one itā€™ll peel your hull panels off

past light
wary flame
#

new testulous, ladies and gents

rigid bison
#

yet more railgun un-changes

wet root
#

Interesting, Sollies become slightly less entirely immune to 250AP

rigid bison
#

so yay plasma buffs

wet root
#

250 still only pens at all at a 70 degree angle, so I'm not sure if this changes anything for trying to shoot functional Solomons, but hopefully the extra depth means you can use it to finish a downed one off

mint sinew
#

Very happy to see most of those, shame rails continue to be stuck in purgatory

wet root
#

I'm curious what the impact of the MN internal density is

#

Does it change any breakpoints on what shells can hit what compartments going through the front plate?

supple sonnetBOT
#

it makes it so 450 AP wont overpen when tehy hit it flat on

wet root
#

Oh, after the pen depth increase on it? Makes sense

supple sonnetBOT
#

as we understnad it the overpen has been only by a a few metweirs

wet root
#

I do wonder how that impacts 250AP to the nose

#

Whether there are any compartments/modules that are safe from it now that weren't before

dark dawn
#

Why are railguns like this :(

azure lake
random grove
#

Rail BB...

azure lake
#

At this point I think it's a BB Issue not a railgun issue

supple sonnetBOT
#

Honestaly half the problems with the BB are BB players who cope and seath in bal-con when there BB's get damaged by ""Insurgent teir trash""

azure lake
#

Yeah

random grove
#

gasp
I can't believe the super expensive capital ship is able to die and can't kill everything on the map instantly

#

Woah
You're telling me it doesn't do well when it's heavily outnumbered and outmaneuvered?? Outrageous

#

sigh
That's part of why I stay away from the neb server

#

Adding bias to any game balance discussion is.. bad

#

At least that kind of bias is.

supple sonnetBOT
#

The thing is, the Solomon.. It represents a conundrum for any OSP player, because it forces them to take 450 or 600 in case one exists, which ANS doesn't have to do and can instead just spam 250.

random grove
#

It's a good piece
It just dies if you misuse it

#

Or well..
Gets heavily damaged or does absolutely nothing, more like

rigid bison
#

ANS LARPers when their slow bricks of capital ships get killed by the things designed to kill slow bricks of capital ships:

#

But beyond that I really feel the game could have benefitted from at least one other OSP hull not being a militarized civilian hull but instead old military or space-cop ships.

noble zodiac
# rigid bison yet more railgun un-changes

Hello bal-con, allow me to ruin your evening:

I've been watching public test games for the last few weeks and I have to say I'm just really not happy with how the rail changes have altered the pace of the game, namely slowing it to a crawl while rail ships pick at each other from across the map. This was pretty easy to anticipate happening, since we saw it long ago back when rails did high damage, but with all of the changes to the game since the 0.1.0 release I wanted to see if it had been mitigated at all. Unfortunately that hasn't been the case, so here's what we're going to do:

  1. The current railgun stats will be merged over into the carriers development branch, and we will continue testing them there and make adjustments as necessary. We've seen that the ability of carrier-based craft to effectively strike backline ships has helped nullify the invulnerability of MD LNs, and it should do the same for rail capitals.

  2. The PTB railgun stats will be reverted with the exception of the traversal and elevation rate buff, which will stay.

Sorry for pulling your leg on this one, but the test games I've been watching have provided plenty of valuable baseline for me to compare their behaviour in the carriers branch against. I have been extremely busy with carrier development so this minor update has fallen down my priority list, but I hope to have it finished soon as there are a lot of QoL improvements and bug fixes I desperately want to get out to the main branch.

mazer's balcon post re: the railgun reverts

#

while yes they're being reverted for now, the revert is also more of a delay until the surrounding environment is ready for them

supple sonnetBOT
#

So basically railguns are in a good place, but need carriers to unmess them?

azure lake
#

Potentially

#

I do like MD LNs being brought up

#

It's really a question of how well can strike craft deal with the Solomon

#

Since it will sit back and pepper the field, it will be alone

#

So

#

It's a question of sinking the Yamato

#

My hopes for this update are high

rigid bison
#

My question is how railstone arrays will fare

azure lake
#

Pretty good imo

#

Since they can firm very strong defensive grids

#

3 railstones can cover each other and have great arcs on their PD

#

Couple that with 250 burst rounds I think they will be pretty safe from fighters

glad aurora
#

please don't bring 250mm on rail DDs

rain mica
#

also, sarissas exist

glad aurora
#

you don't have the power budget for sarissas on rail DDs

they're the platonic ideal of a gun platform, any concessions they have in their design to things that aren't their gun are things like "a single rapid DC"

noble zodiac
random grove
#

look, at least BBs can't have 6 railguns anymore

#

...unless they brought that infernal turret back without my knowledge

rigid bison
#

If railBBs seem like they get dumpstered by Craft it might

#

Or an alternate c5 turret with an autoloader

topaz jolt
#

Because it might just be better to make the weapon do only 50 damage, ignoring ALL damage reduction, and breaking 250 (unit value) of armour, and a RoT of once every 40 seconds. And range of say 18km.

Ignore my stupid message.

rigid bison
#

I genuinely think Neb would be a better game with a community thatā€™s better about balance had the second faction not been an irregular force

#

Its been impossible to justify OSP getting anything decent, that Just Works

fresh storm
#

I really want to get back into the game but I had it barely figured out months ago and forgor everything in the meantime

oak shell
#

I would be happy to play a few refresher games

azure lake
rigid bison
junior heron
#

<@&942093958551588904> boat night head count?

quiet quiver
#

Oh yes I am free today, would just have to swap branches

runic torrent
#

<@&942093958551588904> channels open!

wicked mirage
#

@wary flame Come on vamonos! Everybody let's go!

noble zodiac
#

a

#

im getting lunch gimme a bit

wet root
#

I can meander my way onto Neb (and also get the server spinning up) in a bit

noble zodiac
#

what the fuck is wrong with my CLN

image.png
oak shell
#

Those must be the moor lines we've heard so much about

topaz jolt
#

Branch?

quiet quiver
#

Tada

#

(Tron knows)

wary flame
#

incomprehensible Neb posts

image.png
noble zodiac
#

lmfao

amber spire
#

nebuthreadu

noble zodiac
#

threadulous: neb command

amber spire
#

threaduneb: Com Lousmand

#

I like big spaceships

random grove
#

Me too :)

ivory juniper
#

we all do šŸš¢

mint sinew
#

Some people appear to love small, nimble spaceships. This is a lie. The capwar is only suffering

amber spire
#

BIGGER IS BETTER

ivory juniper
#

LONG LIVE THE SOLOMON (ignore the 300 containers barreling towards you they dont exist)

runic torrent
#

@dense hill

dense hill
#

Oh hey, boat people. Is space boating pretty fun?

mint sinew
#

We think so and are clearly objectively correct

#

After a relatively steep learning curve you get a really interesting tactical game with a lot of room for customisation

ivory juniper
#

big bote go brrr

#

do we wanna do some <@&942093958551588904> today or do we just wait for boat night?

ivory juniper
oak shell
#

I potentially could

ivory juniper
#

WOOO

fresh storm
#

my goal with this game is get to the level of flow I have in like shogun 2

#

and out-attention my opponents

#

less about mechanical micro and more multi pronged actions that a human can't process simultaneously

#

become chaos

#

so yes many ships

oak shell
#

Alder could you make it to a game today?

fresh storm
#

I'm some 300 kilometers away from my PC

#

it'd be tricky

oak shell
#

dang

dense hill
amber spire
#

and dw about pinging me! Ping me all you like

mint sinew
#

Absolutely, someone will generally be happy to stream their perspective if you don't have the game to spectate directly

#

You might not get a running commentary midgame when people need to focus in but it'll be a good intro if you are unsure

junior heron
#

you'll want the role to see the boat night channels

amber spire
#

Ahh that's fair!

#

And got the boat role

ivory juniper
#

cant wait for neb night :D

rigid bison
#

are we gamingulous at the usual time today?

oak shell
#

I will be

quiet quiver
#

I plan to be there too

oak shell
#

<@&942093958551588904> reminder of boat night in 1 hour

runic torrent
#

<@&942093958551588904> opening the boat night channels a little bit early cause i'm gonna eat some lunch o/

oak shell
rigid bison
#

does anyone have some good OSP broadsider fleets for new players?

mint sinew
#

TF Kyanite isn't a bad option really

#

Let me go dig up a non-cursed build

topaz jolt
#

Is this test or normal server?

mint sinew
#

normal

mint sinew
oak shell
lime jungleBOT
# oak shell Here's mine

Fleet 'Liner' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

    Doohickey : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Gun PD Sensor]
  Thingamajig : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Gun PD Sensor]
  Contraption : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Gun PD Sensor]
Seeing Device : 'Draugr' class Clipper [PD]
Triple_sustain_liner.png
wary flame
#

0 of 0 hybrids

image.png
#

I love bugs

mint sinew
lime jungleBOT
# mint sinew Accidentally recursed the fleet by names Hazel didn't like

Fleet 'A noncursed build' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

Chocolate Brownies : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Missile Plasma Gun PD Sensor]
    Maple Pancakes : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Missile Gun PD]
      Salty Crisps : 'Draugr' class Clipper [Missile PD]
     Chicken Parmi : 'Draugr' class Clipper [Sensor PD]
Barrel Aged Whisky : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [Gun PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses 4 different missile types:
```yaml
CM-404 Spicy Active Decoy : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - NONE [3pts]
         SGM-111 Demister : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
   SGM-123 Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
  SGM-256 Light antiscout : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[ARAD(RADAR)] - HE SHAPED [6pts]
A_noncursed_build.png
topaz jolt
#

Everyone goes

ivory juniper
#

huh where everyone? bed? morning?

#

will there be any more <@&942093958551588904>?

mint sinew
#

A critical mass of people needed to go

ivory juniper
#

ah so sad :(

topaz jolt
#

People went brrr

#

You are all so good at Nebulous.

quiet quiver
#

I attempted a short nap earlier and failed at the "short" part, alas

junior heron
#

alas

plain ice
glad aurora
#

mild jamming problem

wary flame
amber spire
#

aw man I missed boat night

#

unfortunately it was like. at 2am. And I had dnd that night so I was exhausted šŸ˜”

amber spire
#

and idk if Nebulous will be a time sink for me šŸ˜”

#

it does look incredibly pretty

oak shell
#

It's a good game

random grove
#

For me

#

But uh

#

Neb is an acquired taste

#

It's very good if you think you'll like it, the learning barrier is just higher than a lot of other strategy games because you need to get the hang of 3D movement

amber spire
#

šŸ¤”

mint sinew
#

Plotting 3d intercept paths for cruise missiles is a really interesting puzzle to get used to solving

amber spire
#

oooh

#

especially when you gotta make sure it doesn't hit anything like meteors or PD screens

#

that being said, I think I'd rather watch boat night than be part of it, for now

random grove
#

PNET does have a high population of skilled players atm, I don't blame you.
But we'd be happy to have you if you ever wanted to play!

quiet quiver
#

But also I feel like I'm as good as a player I am because I got to play with the crew here

random grove
#

Everyone's very helpful and supportive

amber spire
#

Ahhh that makes sense, ty ty

#

...hmm. Now the second hurdle needs to be cleared

#

Does Nebulous run good on potatoes?

oak shell
#

Depends on the degree of potato

#

It runs OK on my 960 from 2016

#

and I think @wicked mirage plays on a laptop?

glad aurora
#

as do I, it's fine at 20fps

noble zodiac
#

yea i run it on a 6 year old gaming laptop thatā€™s literally discontinued and it works fine

#

plus you really donā€™t need the graphics to be particularly stellar to get the depth or engagement of neb

#

because tac view is actually 90% of the game and you secretly donā€™t need the battlespace view

junior heron
#

yes I do

#

how else will I watch my main character ship beam the enemies

noble zodiac
#

this is falsehood
the essence of gaming must be found without these frivolous details

junior heron
#

"frivilous details" like precisely beaming the opponent's turrets

noble zodiac
#

(now, once you get good enough you learn that you actually secretly do need the battlespace view, because it lets you see your shipsā€™ orientations to control them better and look at enemy hulls to find out their capabilities and status and dispositions)

wary flame
#

You can see the beam in tac view now, it's very pretty

noble zodiac
#

yeah

#

all green and sparkly-like

wary flame
#

I still spend more time in visual than most experienced players I know, it just gives me so much more intel

junior heron
#

yeah but you can't see scorch marks in tac view

#

slightly less vain/jokingly - I can't see if the beam is actually hitting in tac view

wicked mirage
#

What's going on?

#

Oh yeah, laptop works ok for Neb

worthy bane
#

My laptop, specifically, doesn't quite but that's mostly because my audio goes weird whenever it's doing anything even mildly intense (not a neb thing, happens with almost anything on the laptop) - the game itself still runs fine at low settings

#

But soon! Soon I will have a new laptop and I will be back for Boat Nights!

runic torrent
#

hey guys, not nebulous but I feel like it's super relevant to people who are fans of nebulous: breachway is out in EA and I've been poking at it for a few hours and I can for sure recommend it to everyone who's really itching for Expanse style bvr combat + cards

#

also the music fucks.

#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVvt-CrC2-w

YouTube
Markus Junnikkala
Forced To The Fringes ā€“ Breachway OST (Original Video Game Soundtra...

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/1mGccFyvuzNLSJEGDQnKSj?si=BgpD-WsqQb29UJY0hp-i6g
Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/fi/album/breachway-original-video-game-soundtrack-early-access/1771176824
Bandcamp: https://markusjunnikkala.bandcamp.com/album/breachway-original-video-game-soundtrack-early-access

Support and follow the completion of t...

ā–¶ Play video
oak shell
#

ooh

#

Well the gameplay looks more FTL than anything I associate with the Expanse

#

But FTL was good so that's not a criticism

#

ooh it has a demo

rain mica
#

Cobalt Core is also another good space cardgame

runic torrent
#

like it's about tracking these long term kill trajectories, gamified through resource stockpiles and cooldowns and ECM and stuff

oak shell
#

hmmmm I see

runic torrent
#

I was streaming for @sharp crow @arctic magnet @junior heron just now and like, there was a moment where I could see an enemy setting up to launch a firefly missile at me

#

so I hard flushed my hand to fish for a waylay card that would let me hack the missile mid flight and send it back at them

#

also I've played this card ^

#

playing gridfire into a firefly swarm feels so good

oak shell
#

That does sound cool. I'll give the demo a try and let folks here know what I think

runic torrent
#

do ping me when you do

#

the third ship is the most, like, Nebulous?

#

the starting ships are like

  • precision lasers and shields. good honest star wars fighting
  • flak and rushdown. reavers from firefly
  • precision railguns and hacking, no shields at all. this one is my favorite and the most expanse-y / nebulous-y
#

like you're sitting around jamming and hiding and sniping stuff out of the sky and taking any hit hits hard

#

but like tbh they're all nebulous, you still need PDC for missile warfare on the first two ships

oak shell
#

I guess I was associating the Expanse with high acceleration, limited engagement time combat
And Breachway reminded me of FTL because of the framing of two ships on a splitscreen, taking potshots
More about the movement mechanics than the weapon mechanics

runic torrent
oak shell
#

You are right about the music, the one you posted is a banger

runic torrent
#

that music was the moment I realized I had to post the game here

#

it's bossfight music when you fight ||the Tyrant|| and the fight is so tense and thinky I was really swept away in the knife fight math

#

and it did feel like, I dunno, how I wanted an expanse videogame to feel

oak shell
#

Oh, important question

#

Is it turn based, or is there limited time to take actions?

runic torrent
#

turn based

#

it's fully turn based

oak shell
#

that's a relief

runic torrent
#

and like very turn based in the sense that it's really really thinky

#

the game is kinda chess

#

enemy attacks are telegraphed like up to 3 rounds in advance, more for missiles really

oak shell
#

I do love me some space chess

runic torrent
#

and your own cards go on cooldown

#

so like if you play a 4 cd railgun snipe then 4 turns later it comes back to your deck

#

so if you cycle your deck fast enough it's actually semi deterministic

#

you know that you have 5 cards in your deck and 3 incoming with 1 cooldown left and that means if you discard N cards you'll deterministically get at least one of X, Y or Z...

#

and you stockpile resources over turns

#

and you can't swing power around like in FTL without taking heat

#

but you can take heat if you have radiators

#

so there's even tactically flaring your radiators to hard surge your shields and stuff

bitter furnace
#

okay I don't know why I wasn't interested in this game before, the earlier trailers didn't grab me, but all of what you're describing here sounds absolutely incredible and the demo is now downloading

past light
#

I'll have to check it out again. I remember playing an early demo and enjoying it. The main thing it felt lacking at that point was just more content.

#

It didn't say Expanse to me, but thinky space chess with card/deck builder mechanics definitely sounds like the demo I remember, lol.

#

I remember it being very positional

quiet quiver
#

Huh... is it just me or does Hooded Horse have more spaceship/space-empire games than typical?

junior heron
#

I thought they focused on publishing those games in particular

quiet quiver
#

It's less than half their catalog but they still have like... 5 of em

#

Nebulous, Breachway, Falling Frontier, Terra Invicta, Fragile Existence, Capital Command... I guess that's 6

#

This also isn't counting like the ground combat scifi games (Menace, Mars Tactics, Heart of the Machine, Xenonauts 2) or the space city builder (Beyond These Stars)

junior heron
#

Hooded Horse is a publisher of games featuring strategic and tactical depth

Publisher Inspired By Strategy, Simulation, and Role-Playing Games
I guess spaceships and space-empires more commonly fall into those categories

quiet quiver
#

Going past scifi, it is a lot of stuff in the strategy/tactics/simulation zone, ye

amber spire
#

Ohhh they published Terra Invicta

oak shell
# runic torrent https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHHU0smOfJA

Breachway demo trip report
This game fuckin rules

In a way it's to FTL what Tactical Breach Wizards is to XCOM: taking some of the mechanics and leaning much more into the deterministic puzzle aspect, rather than risk management. Though there is some in-combat randomness for folks who enjoy that sort of thing.

I love that you are both trying to solve for this turn, with the cards in your hand, but also looking forward to upcoming turns with the reactor allocation. I do kind of wish for a way to trade off getting a resource boost now for lower resources later. But then again, if you don't have the resources to solve this turn, then that's a result of poor resource planning on previous turns

Some of the abilities, especially the boss ones, are not terribly clear in their tooltips, though maybe I just haven't learned the lingo yet. There was one elite encounter where I got smacked with 7? missiles at once and I'm not entirely sure why. Hopefully it's just something to get used to.

This is the game that could get me into deckbuilder games.

#

(Also let me play Framekill Ashley šŸ˜­ )

runic torrent
# past light I remember it being very positional

Are you thinking of https://store.steampowered.com/app/2058960/Earthless/ ?

Steam
Earthless

We thought we had a billion years before our Sun would dieā€¦ We were wrong.Take the helm of a generation starship and voyage into the dangerous unknown in search of a new home for the human race. EARTHLESS is a sci-fi roguelike deckbuilder with grid-based tactical combat from the studio behind innovative space games Homeworld 3 and Hardspace: Shi...

Release Date

To be announced

ā–¶ Play video
runic torrent
#

They get timed missile assistance

runic torrent
past light
runic torrent
#

I do want to make a card game

#

This stuff inspires me

runic torrent
oak shell
#

Right, I saw the support, but I remember the tooltip saying it was 1 missile every 3 turns or something

past light
#

I did also play the Breachways demo, but clearly my recollection cannot be trusted. šŸ˜†

runic torrent
#

Okay lol

amber spire
#

hmmmmm

runic torrent
amber spire
#

I wish Nebulous had support for really big ships

oak shell
#

OK I might have missed that

amber spire
#

also is Breachway worth buying when its in EA?

oak shell
#

and then a lot of missiles just happened to line up

past light
#

I'll probably give the (presumably updated?) demo a spin tomorrow.

runic torrent
#

Yeah it doesn't list a damage value like with one missile

#

Because mechanically it's an enemy card that summons a bunch of firefly tokens

#

It looks like a support effect

#

But if you read it you shit yourself

runic torrent
#

I'll leave that to everyone to judge for themselves

#

Game will cook on its own

amber spire
#

gotcha gotcha

#

šŸ¤” until then, I'll probably play FTL

glad aurora
amber spire
#

oh shit Hooded Horse also published Terra Invicta?

oak shell
glad aurora
#

True.

amber spire
#

do itttt

oak shell
#

There's a forum here and everything

amber spire
#

start a thread, just as I have

#

anyway, are there any like

#

really big spaceships in Nebulous?

glad aurora
#

no

amber spire
#

aw

oak shell
#

Well, define really big. The liners and battleship are pretty chunky

wet root
#

Bulkers are half a km long, they're the largest ones in vanilla

amber spire
#

well that is reasonably large for a game about maneuvering your ships and avoiding incoming shots a lot

#

the feeling of commanding a single, hugeass ship tho

#

that's what I wanna see in an RTS game

#

I should probably take this to #video-game-discussion to not clog up chat

oak shell
#

Yeah, I think the Solomon definitely scratches that itch

wet root
#

Yeah, the big ships feel appropriately big

#

Good luck turning a Sollie or a Bulker around in a hurry

amber spire
#

Oh yeah definitely

#

I wanna play as a captain controlling a huge, lumbering hulk of pressurized steel and shield riddled with guns and point defense

#

i ain't moving this thing very fast

#

but its coming. and you can't stop me.

wet root
#

While a light cruiser can reasonably dodge long-range gunfire, and a corvette can sometimes evade low-maneuverability missiles

oak shell
#

Well, there are no shields in Nebulous. But otherwise yes

wet root
#

Someone get @junior heron on the phone, we need the Autumn of the Storm here

amber spire
#

...I might have a thing for absurdly sized ships

amber spire
oak shell
#

yeah that's a good comparison

#

(better when carriers are released)

amber spire
#

ahh I see. So every shot to the outer hull is unrepairable

wet root
#

Yyyyes, but most weapons don't do much armor damage

#

They'll strip it where they hit but there's a lot of surface area on a Sollie, even when you're firing 450mm

#

Plasma is the main exception, so are missiles and rockets to a degree

#

Since they detonate on impact

amber spire
#

I see I see

#

and I assume plasma shots require the ship to be in close range to have any effect?

oak shell
#

Plasma is not the shortest range weapon in the game

amber spire
#

ohh

wet root
#

Oh, beams also strip armor very fast but they usually kill the target even faster

#

So it's rarely relevant

#

(They are the shortest-range weapons in the game outside of some torpedo designs, and are why battleships are terrifying in close quarters)

amber spire
#

huh, the SA have the only spinal mounts in the game, while the OSP have the only plasma weapons

glad aurora
#

no, both sides have spinals

amber spire
#

oh whoops. Was checking the wiki, mb

bitter furnace
#

well the OSP's are usually called casemates, but they function mostly the same

wet root
#

OSP have spinals on the monitors, and "spinals" on the broadsides of the bulkers

#

ANS get beams and hybrid missiles as their unique weapons, though there are other differentiating factors

supple sonnetBOT
#

The Thing about Nebs plasma is it's basically a fancy space molatove, also Tugs have a spinal mount as well

terse coyote
#

Mazer (the Nebulous dev) just came out as trans, online! :D
They go by Lys online now (pronounced Liss) ^^

#

#409638848302153732 message

sly glade
#

omg

amber spire
#

Congrats to them!

#

that's the second time I heard of someone trans having the name Lys

worthy bane
#

Congrats to her! (Afaik that's the correct pronoun, from a discord bio skim)

amber spire
#

ahh I see

#

congrats to her!

sharp crow
#

hey good for her

quiet quiver
#

Yeah a few players happened to notice the discord name/pronoun change and started offering congrats before she made the post

sharp crow
#

that's pretty funny

noble zodiac
#

nebuLys: fleet command

azure lake
#

Good for her

misty storm
#

yoooo nice

deft current
#

Good for her

noble zodiac
#

so many people spell it "vauxhaul" instead of "vauxhall" lmao

#

šŸ¤” maybe everyone's subconsciously alluding to uhaul, what with the commonality of trans lesbianism

oak shell
#

Yeah because it hauls ass over to D point to die horribly

noble zodiac
#

not if youre flying them well !!

oak shell
#

Ah, that's what I've been doing wrong šŸ˜†

noble zodiac
#

so goes the saying

#

once i get on hrt im gonna be unstoppable at neb istg

junior heron
#

vauxhall

supple sonnetBOT
#

Personally I'd guess it's because "hall" and "haul" are homophones?

mint sinew
#

That depends a bit on your accent

runic torrent
#

<@&942093958551588904> boat night channels open

quiet quiver
#

Oh right boats exist

wicked mirage
#

I can't play rn sorry x.x

topaz jolt
#

I'd love to play, but I'm still losing my silly internets every 30 minutes.

toxic scaffold
topaz jolt
#

Ooh, I didn't disconnect while watching a game. I'll try a game.

junior heron
#

lots of 6 and 8 in the CLN post-game

image.png
#

(lots of new players around now so this was a bit of a stomping)

wary flame
#

I think that might even beat my CLN record

junior heron
#

yeah but I don't count it

#

it was like 3 new players and Rom

#

so lots of opportunity to just throw unaided boxes at undefended targets

topaz jolt
#

Box go brrr

junior heron
#

box go bonk

quiet quiver
rigid bison
#

so how should I build and play to counter the omnipresent pentabrick

mint sinew
#

High level approaches come down to making them give ground/be out of position:

  • strike them from out of range with 450mm/rails (you'll want lockvettes for this)
  • smite them with missiles
  • bait them into beam range
  • avoid them while you remove the rest of their team
  • isolate them and destroy with overwhelming force
quiet quiver
#

250mm CLs also do chew through their offensive capability quick enough as long as you don't die first

noble zodiac
mint sinew
#

4TC spy isn't at peak performance against 5šŸ§± it still does the job but a lock is nice

noble zodiac
#

five TC spyglass

oak shell
#

I was only able to get three TCs onto my spy Axford; is that adequate, or should I find a spot to squeeze in a fourth?

wary flame
#

four is unfortunately what you want, especially with MNs around who will still be somewhat difficult to hit even with four

#

the usual tradeoffs are running only three ammo elevators or only one drive

#

single raider isn't awful

wicked mirage
#

You can get 4 TC Spy and 4 Ammo Elevators with a Big Raider drive if you take the plunge and let the power of the PCC into your heart

#

Put it in compartment 5 or 6 and bow tank!

olive walrus
# 
Added Saltwraith Class FLV
Added EGC15 turret
Added EGC115 turret
Added EGCC115 hardpoint
Added Mk96000 EGAC hardpoint
Added EGC300 turret
Added C92x Macron Array turret
Added Tosser 100 C1 and 2 VLS array
Added Tosser 50 C2 and 3 VLS array
Added QMT-24 A C1 Missile Turret
Added QMT-16B C2 Missile Turret
Added HMM-200 Beak, Size 1 High Momentum Missile Body
Added HMM-300 Joust, Size 2 High Momentum Missile Body
Maybe some balance changes to existing items, I honestly cant remember
Probably bug fixes but we also probably added more bugs so please report bugs in the mod feedback channel on the Nebulous discord server```
topaz jolt
olive walrus
#

no

mint sinew
#

Game winning reminder for the other team that Vauxhalls can't shoot behind themself (this let me contest a pivotal point)

20241008083330_1_brave_shuttle.jpg
low monolith
#

though not the only way to avoid this obvi

mint sinew
#

Not having bullseyes on the top mount with 360 coverage would have helped too.

It was just very funny sneaking the Protectorate's weakest shuttle in behind a pair of battered but fighting Vauxhalls

noble zodiac
quiet quiver
#

<@&942093958551588904> https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/887570/view/4686648941196943949

NEBULOUS: Fleet Command - Update 0.3.2.22 - Fleet Editor Improvemen...

Hello Spacers! This minor update has been a long time in the works while we've been busy with Carriers, but we're glad to finally get it out to you and apologize for how long it took. Fleet Editor The last time the Fleet Editor received any significant quality of life upgrades was at the end of 2022 with the addition of undo/redo, fleet editing ...

#

The long awaited QOL patch is here

misty storm
#

Oh

#

Nice

#

Thought this wouldnā€™t be till carriers

pliant dove
#

"We've reduced the Solomon's armor thickness slightly so 250mm AP is able to penetrate from a slightly wider range of angles."

Wasn't the point of this 450 AP????

deft current
wet root
#
  • Fixed WAKE primary seeker being turned around by gaps in trails.
  • Fixed WAKE turning to the trail's direction while well outside it in some geometries.
    Another day, another inch closer to usable WAKE
quiet quiver
dark dawn
#

Railguns still unchanged, of course.

glad aurora
#

QoL buffs

mint sinew
#

They got the turn rate buff which is helpful

dark dawn
#

That being said I'll see if I can build my Spin Liner idea with the logic change

amber spire
#

šŸ‘€

eternal bramble
#

Berthings deleted

#

Sad day for those who liked having them for no reason

supple sonnetBOT
#

They were Free HP on a lot of our ships

quiet quiver
#

Well, now 10 pts gets you a rapid DC w/ twice the health and also a repair team to throw health at other stuff too

supple sonnetBOT
#

yes, but that's 80-100 points over a fleet of duncans

dark dawn
lime jungleBOT
# dark dawn So, I've created A Thing

Fleet 'TF Heart of Oak' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

Wed and Parts : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
The Pat Green : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Gun PD Sensor EWar]
    Plus Laws : 'Draugr' class Clipper [EWar]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-12 Flyswatter : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [4pts]
TF_Heart_of_Oak.png
dark dawn
#

Thank you Lieutenant

#

The idea is simple, use the new speen logic to get double effective firerate out of a set of C65s

#

Problem
I've never built a bulk liner before, so I don't know if this is good

glad aurora
#

offload pinpoint and dazzler onto another utility tug (or the same utility tug)

#

drop PCCs, drop boosted, drop huntress down to bridgemaster

#

you're spending a lot of power (and points) you can't afford to spend

#

also 100% drop the intel center on a combat liner

dark dawn
#

Okay, what do I replace
All of That with?

glad aurora
#

hold on, brb

dark dawn
#

And to any observers, yes, I am terminally afraid of S3H

mint sinew
dark dawn
#

I'm getting conflicting opinions here

mint sinew
#

Nebulous isn't a solved game so that's natural, Ash and I build quite different fleets

#

I do agree about offloading the dazzlers if plausible, your power budget looks rough and you can't guarantee to have it pointed the right way due to spinning

dark dawn
#

Okay, does it work on the forward mount on the cutter?

#

Because it seems like it'd have the widest angle there

mint sinew
#

Otherwise I'd suggest trying to add a second CIC to the marauders. They have a habit of getting sections punched out by incoming fire so redundancy is good

mint sinew
dark dawn
#

Okay, got it

#

Fingers crossed it works

mint sinew
#

Speaking of, give the tug the free RMag for a little padding

dark dawn
lime jungleBOT
# dark dawn

Fleet 'TF Heart of Oak' is composed of 3 ships that cost 2950 points:

 Wed and Parts : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Gun PD Sensor]
The Ninth Fuze : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Gun PD Sensor]
     Plus Laws : 'Draugr' class Clipper [EWar Sensor PD]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-12 Flyswatter : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [4pts]
TF_Heart_of_Oak.png
dark dawn
#

I could go down to a non-boosted reactor
If I ditched one or both Grazers which
Ehhhhhhhhh

mint sinew
#

I'd cut the PCC before I downgraded the reactor TBH

#

Stick an extra rapid DC in there and have a great time

dark dawn
#

Yeah, marauders seem like they need damcon out the ass and a bit more

mint sinew
#

But that's very much into "season to taste" territory

dark dawn
#

Right

mint sinew
#

More generally I'd look at the tugs internals. Give it a free RMag

dark dawn
#

Done that

mint sinew
#

You could break up the RDC into the MMT combo of Aux+SmallDC+something to smooth out the durability for similar costs. Again, personal style here

#

Other last thing, you may want to split the radars between your marauders so one has a huntress and the other has a bridgemaster. Gives you the best coverage as a whole as you can pick things up early but fight well in close

dark dawn
#

Ah, I thought the Huntress was just straight up better

mint sinew
#

Worse track quality but better range and power

glad aurora
lime jungleBOT
# glad aurora

Fleet 'You spin me right round' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

  Flag and Cider : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Gun PD]
       Know Cute : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Gun PD]
 The Elite Sugar : 'Draugr' class Clipper [Sensor EWar Gun PD]
Denny Q. Zannini : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-101 Hobgoblin : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
  SGM-113 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
you_spin_me_right_round.png
dark dawn
#

Okay, so uhhh
Why no Grazers?

glad aurora
#

They're on the tug

dark dawn
#

Ahhh

#

Though the tug does not have jamming which
Hmm

glad aurora
#

Yeah, only way to fit jamming is by cutting a lot more AMMs than I'd personally be comfortable with and offloading that cost into upgrading the A-capper into a Bellbird shuttle

dark dawn
#

Right, mandatory A-capper.

glad aurora
#

Might as well, it's probably a better investment than another set of VLS and 20 AMMs per LN

#

but at that point, personal preference

dark dawn
#

I mean, I'd rather not split my attention even further in what is a micro-intensive fleet

lime jungleBOT
# dark dawn

Fleet 'TF Heart of Oak' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

 Wed and Parts : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Gun PD Sensor]
The Ninth Fuze : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Gun PD Sensor]
     Plus Laws : 'Draugr' class Clipper [EWar PD]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-12 Flyswatter : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [4pts]
TF_Heart_of_Oak.png
glad aurora
#

yeah, that theoretically works

supple sonnetBOT
#

I would get rid of the one bastion or get a few more, as flac is vary mich a thing that depends on volume to get it's point value

glad aurora
#

revolver LNs are very sensitive about their gun buff modules, which is why I'm side-eyeing the LCR, but it's not a bad fleet

supple sonnetBOT
#

Ehh you don't get that much of an improment with 5 RCC's as you do wiht 4, if anything but also if you can roll 180 before you reload then you do need AE's

dark dawn
#

From my testing, ammo elevators aren't needed

#

With the 7700

#

In fact I struggled to micro fast enough for the guns to be on target before they reload

glad aurora
#

from the spreadsheet, theoretical best DPM is 4RCC/1AE with big yard, 5RCC is more lenient on the roll micro

dark dawn
#

Welp, first game, died to one battleship despite getting the perfect ambush on him

supple sonnetBOT
#

Revolver liners are harder to run then regulare ones, you might wan't to ask tom how he played his before the top mount nerf

glad aurora
#

radar is stronger than jamming as you get closer, 450 is 11km range, etc

dark dawn
#

Can OSP even detect and get a track at that distance?

glad aurora
#

yeah, have a teammate pointing a LRT mn/tug at the BB

dark dawn
#

Understood

glad aurora
#

It's a coordination thing, but as soon as your team spots a BB you should absolutely be getting a fireable track on it (or prepared to jump on it the second before you open fire)

dark dawn
#

Got it, so don't actually try to ambush up close

glad aurora
#

up close is for plas/100

dark dawn
#

Got it, because I got beamed to death, expecting that eight C65s at point-blank range broadside-on would do something to a battleship

glad aurora
#

wait you got into beam range

#

Yeah, that explains it. I thought you just lost the DPS race.

dark dawn
#

I mean I did

supple sonnetBOT
#

Getting in to beem range for OSP on a non Torp/Rocket ship is peraty much a garintied failure

dark dawn
#

Understood.

#

A kingdom for carriers, and an OSP ship that can actually kill things

supple sonnetBOT
#

OH you can kill things with OSP ships. like last boat night The Autem died wiht out beaming becosue it just got zoned out. and also tom was playing wiht a bunch of randos

dark dawn
#

Got it, it just takes a while

supple sonnetBOT
#

I mean slower then beams yeah but that's just beems

mint sinew
#

Certainly into the capital ships. (Unless you fill them full of missiles)

glad aurora
#

when playing against ANS,

  • don't get into 5km unless you're playing torps/rockets
  • don't get into 8km if you're playing 450

these will generally guide you well

dark dawn
#

Understood

glad aurora
#

6.5km - 7.8km is plas/X LN range (out to 8km if you're playing plas/250, technically) and that's heaps of DPS

toxic scaffold
lime jungleBOT
# toxic scaffold But if you want a working liner fleat this one is batel tested on the last pach

Fleet 'Four-Riders-Improved' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

 Jack of Endings : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Gun PD]
Queen of Glutony : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Gun PD]
King of Conflict : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Gun Sensor PD]
  Ace of Pleanty : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Gun PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-106 Ember : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
Four-Riders-Improved.png
dark dawn
#

Four karking liners, Jesus

supple sonnetBOT
#

They need a bit less micro then a spinship and they have better burst damage wich is most of what counts agenst ANS

dark dawn
#

Right, OSP is the swarm faction

supple sonnetBOT
#

well more that having more hulls is just better in a lot of ways. and Liners are cheep enough.

#

That and 128 rounds of 450 will ruin the day of most ships, if not end it

dark dawn
#

Okay, second match
Went a hell of a lot better, I caused an Axford and a Solomon severe pain

#

Which considering that's the ships OSP struggles with the most, I think I'm good

#

Main issue will be killing things without spotting support but that's a common problem

#

That being said, with the solomon hull decrease, is there a reason to take 450AP?

supple sonnetBOT
#

well you can still only pen a soly from the side wiht 450HE

#

And you also need AP for a axeford bow on

noble zodiac
#

the point of those tweaks was to let 450 do anything to solomons, via the medium of AP

rigid bison
#

The intention seems to be making 450 AP more consistent and making 450 HE and 250 AP viable under some circumstances

dark dawn
#

Understood, so if anything I should load AP against heavy ships more often?

mint sinew
#

Absolutely, especially if they are bow on

dark dawn
#

Got it. My main issue is swapping ammo takes centuries on liners

mint sinew
#

You just need to pay attention to your autoloaders. Unless you are shooting something wildly incapable (e.g. 250mm HE vs BB) you can let the autoloader finish then swap out the next one

supple sonnetBOT
#

It's why you swap during a reload

bitter furnace
dark dawn
#

Which means

bitter furnace
#

that was just to elaborate on others' answers, I am in agreement with them

dark dawn
#

Ah, right
So basically just use AP on heavy stuff

bitter furnace
#

you do still want to fire AP, because while 450 HE is a bit better it still isn't anywhere near the penetration ability of AP

bitter furnace
wary flame
#

even with the armour and AP changes they're still incredibly stupidly tanky

#

they just take chip damage to 450AP from the front now

dark dawn
#

Whoo boy

random grove