Nebulous: Fleet Command

[wicked mirage]

I hope it was ok to ping Techhead btw

[noble zodiac]

well

i say that but

its in an hour and a half

[wicked mirage]

Thanks Winged!

[noble zodiac]

so depending on the timing if i get out of bed and start my breakfast cooking

i might catch 1 game

https://tenor.com/view/catra-shera-yawn-yawning-tired-gif-19426901

[oak shell]

Normal ANS fleet

[junior heron]

@ivory juniper

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'New New New Box Boat' is composed of 1 ship which costs 3000 points:

New New New Box Boat : 'Moorline' class Line Ship [Missile Gun EWar Sensor PD]

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'CLN Caps 1.8 (SSJ Rework)' is composed of 6 ships that cost 3000 points:

Blade of Whitehall (Decentralised) : 'Moorline' class Line Ship [Missile PD]
                  Tiphany M. Prudy : 'Draugr' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
                 Lizbeth B. Fergus : 'Draugr' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
                      Lay Ministry : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [Gun Missile PD]
               Master of the Horse : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [Gun PD]
                    Lord Paymaster : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [Gun PD]

[quiet quiver]

@wicked mirage

[ivory juniper]

yummy

[noble zodiac]

the creature

[runic torrent]

next boat night is on <t:1723921200:F> <t:1723921200:R>!

[noble zodiac]

neb ship name for the common pool:

Rodents of Usual Size

came up with it but it doesn’t fit my naming scheme so i offer it up freely to all who wish to use it

[tulip vault]

that's real good

[quiet quiver]

Big news (posted by Mazer)
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/943416769660452904/1272797136009953300/Unity_iXXLVhj9WT.mp4

[glad aurora]

holy shit

revolver 450 LN is back

[quiet quiver]

The big thing to notice is that the liner doesn't wig out and do weird contortions instead of simply doing a roll

But the little thing I noticed is that the first shot in each volley isn't firing slightly off-target

[misty storm]

Wow that rolled fast

[quiet quiver]

It's at 2x speed, the shells are also travelling fast

[bitter furnace]

Revolver LN is now Gatling LN

[oak shell]

Liner players we are so back

[arctic magnet]

we are so back 450 liner bros

[glad aurora]

@wary flame rocketainers are now affected by radar jamming, it's joever

[quiet quiver]

Patch Notes - 0.3.2.22:240813-0609

+PUBLIC TEST BRANCH+

Changes/Features:

• "Nebulous Aegis" marker set now uses the classic ship silhouettes for friendly ships.
• Added "NTDS" marker set which uses circles for friendly ships, and added hull symbol text (e.g. BB) to the center to differentiate.
• Seekers with validator memory will now have that memory cleared if the validated target is lost by the primary seeker.
• Side-mounted fixed weapons will now prefer to roll onto target if the angle to target is over 90 degrees.

Bug Fixes:

• Fixed ships not being evaluated for elimination when their last DC team was killed.
• Fixed mines behind a terrain backface being able to trigger on ships.
• Fixed burst tube launchers not checking for obstruction on every launch.
• Fixed ELINT crossfixes showing their TQ as the last calculated TQ from a non-crossfix track.
• Fixed rocket containers and mines not being affected by radar jamming.
• Fixed lobby player count in fleet editor not updating if a player left.
• Fixed lobby alert ping not stopping if a player left and the ready count dropped below the threshold.
• Fixed Moorline Stern C DC board missing one of it's C2 mounts.

[glad aurora]

also jamflash works on valmem now

[quiet quiver]

Which is apparently a new feature and not a bugfix

[bitter furnace]

oh no... that could be pretty catastrophic, hopefully counterbuffs come in

[glad aurora]

this is truly the update of the single blanket on ans ships

[bitter furnace]

yeah idk about that one since it worked that way in last test period

[glad aurora]

more importantly, however

this is technically a CL buff

🙂

[quiet quiver]

Rockettainers were the strongest container pre-bugfix, so TBH I'm not the most upset, esp since many fleets don't have radarjam

A buff for many CL and frigblob fleets tho

[wary flame]

I was pretty vehemently against this because they're very hard to mix with anything

CLN back to the useless shelf until we get a working munition again, all the good targets can trivially take jamming (beam DD, gun CL, frigblob)

[wary flame]

They sure as hell will now, and it's not like blankets needed the buff

They were the strongest because no other containers could count on any good targets being available in any given game, without a strong rocket container the whole ship is just worthless again

[junior heron]

doubt it, I think a lot of 3k battleships are going to continue to hope chaff saves them

[wary flame]

They didn't have to be that scared of rockets anyway, it's the medium ships it was good for

[junior heron]

and now the beam destroyer guarding A point is 50 points more expensive and has replaced one of its mounts

[wary flame]

and you can't just gamble on being able to rocket spam capitals because if they do have a jam escort or a jammer themselves you don't have a fleet

[glad aurora]

goalie DD never filled all of its c1s anyway

[wary flame]

I have been taking jamming on mine for months anyway

[junior heron]

I feel like I've seen very little jamming recently

[wary flame]

I would rather OSP have a working sixth hull than ANS have to buy about two more blankets per team, personally

[junior heron]

I don't think the CLN is a non-working hull

[glad aurora]

unfortunately even the removal of "the CLN does the CV versus light cruiser job and means you can't push if it's launching at you" doesn't make CL worth playing right now

but we'll see whether that changes

[wary flame]

Over time I've become more and more convinced that the relative paucity of good radar on OSP means ANS should scatter the odd single jammer throughout the fleet anyway, it's often just an invisiblity button even for capitals

and I think the CLN goes back to non-working now that its only good weapon has been solidly kneecapped

especially in the lower cost roles that it was meant to be taking on

[mint sinew]

Absolutely true, I've seen entire OSP teams crumple an Axford pair with a few jammers

[wary flame]

I have one jammer on my Axes and my 3k BB for softkill and it frequently just bricks entire lineships

[glad aurora]

something I didn't want to mention because I'm arguing for a CL buff is that CL with jam escorts in pubs sometimes just ends up as "you are immune to the enemy team at all times"

but that's a fleet editor meme

[mint sinew]

It's often a deployment problem too. If your CL group is out of arc for all their offsets OSP just dies

A few cheeky missile strikes on the spotters and they are done

[wary flame]

I'm definitely chalking this one up to the extremely long list of "Mazer fixes a load-bearing bug/unintended factor without compensating, things go badly" incidents, I could be proved wrong but I doubt it

Two or three plasma changes, OSP losing EO, 20mm aim fix that led to a lot of hassle about the invincible Pavise, it's a real habit

[glad aurora]

mazer! make the raider no longer mandatory for CLs so I can switch to prowler/big whip and drop the second jamvette escort, thereby allowing me to bring an actually statistically significant number of S2H, and my life is yours!

[mint sinew]

I do wonder how badly jamming is going to shut them down. Rocket containers only need the briefest of tracks to stage, so the old "SAH breaking through just enough to stay on target" might save them here

[wary flame]

They aren't SAH, it'll probably be like normal Act, which are just straight up bricked for as long as they're in the cone

and they only have short seeker range to begin with, they'll just get defendered

[mint sinew]

Fair enough, just thinking over potential buff avenues given the change is likely to go in

e.g. is this the point to push for a MN spinal anti-jam floodlight equivalent

[wary flame]

Can't make them cheaper, can't make other seekers better because RCs aren't modular and making regular containers way harder to softkill means they can kill everything with giga decoys, can't reduce the degradation on performance because even 300m of jam effectiveness gets every RC shot down by 20mm anyway

this is a truly awful idea

This was the one container that genuinely could be non-trivial to softkill because of the different damage model

I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to have MN spinals lined up on someone to shoot cruise missiles at them especially when MNs need that slot for most of their firepower so that's three times the price of an illum shuttle spotting for SAH

[mint sinew]

Oh, I know it's not a good fix (nor one likely to be implemented) but that's more the level I'd reached given your above list

[wary flame]

At least it's easier to aim the 4 C53s on the top of my CLN now, which are also now its only reliable weapon

[rigid bison]

Rocket boxes should at least get upgraded to use full EACT now that it would act like full EACT, or make rockets a warhead type to put them on good boxes

[wary flame]

Staging at nearly 5k would be a massive nerf, they don't just have short range as a negative

[quiet quiver]

I’d assume you could make them stage at 2km still even if they could acquire targets from further out

But it would still probably be a nerf because they now have more window to reacquire on chaff

Basic act and steerable extended have the exact same power, gain, sensitivity, and filtering, the only difference is max range and cone angle

(And also how the cone wiggles around)

[quiet quiver]

@runic torrent I remember you worried about Mazer's mental health and stuff, and RN he's talking and shooting the shit about leaving the military

Apparently this is the end of his 8 years and he's been on leave since Aug 1st b/c he had 62 vacation days banked up and is (mandatorily) spending them before he's out the door

Also said his number 1 reason for resigning was wanting to spend time with his wife

[supple sonnet]

So what, he's ashore right now?

[quiet quiver]

It sounds like it

[runic torrent]

oh that's lovely

I hope he and his wife are doing okay

[glad aurora]

Most importantly: that's a lot of goddamn missiles on those OSP boats.

[wary flame]

four S2s, if properly employed, can be a dead vette by themselves

OSP strike gaming may be on the cards

[quiet quiver]

And full version of the pic

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/409639847356137473/1273463819275862078/image.png

[bitter furnace]

I didn't expect the OSP interceptor would get that many, makes me wonder what the bombers will get. The devlog mentioned that each Alliance interceptor can only fit a single S2 in its bay, although that's in addition to six S1s on the pylons

[wary flame]

I just assumed that was the bomber, if that's only the fighter then things will be interesting

[glad aurora]

Yep, that's the fighter

[bitter furnace]

its shape matches the concept art we saw of the OSP interceptor

[glad aurora]

Four S1s or one S2 on each station, four stations

[low monolith]

Birthing hips? No no no, I said berthing ships 🥵

[junior heron]

but Berthings are being removed next patch

[low monolith]

No like

berth like where you put a craft

not berth where you put the crew

[low monolith]

Somebody watched RvB 👀

[sharp crow]

if ans fighters have an s2 slot I wonder if it can run an air superiority instastage s2h

[glad aurora]

if they can run hybrids, they're sure as hell not going to waste time using them on airplanes instead of ships

that's going to be a major balance factor

[quiet quiver]

Mazer already said no hybrids in AN fighters, single-stage missiles only

[glad aurora]

bombers is still a running concern

[mint sinew]

We'll have to see when we get there. Plenty of time to hit them with the balance stick

[low monolith]

I'm curious if we'll see a reasonable use in size 1 anti-craft missiles similar to those of AMMs

Or how craft will be affected by PDCs in general

Will mines be triggered by craft? That's kind of a waste

Like at best they take out a few in a wing

At worst they cant track/keep pace and are completely useless

They're capable of crippling much larger ships so unless they can kill more than 1 craft at a time thats kind of a huge loss

[wary flame]

my personal probably-unwarranted concern is that if strike craft primarily attack by shooting conventional missiles at things, it's entirely possible that OSP strike craft don't really have any anticapital potential because the softkill that works on normal cruise missiles will work on missiles launched slightly closer, but I'm sure that will get a look

[low monolith]

I'm worried OSP strike craft either consistently have their payload or their hulls shredded

But I'm hopeful they'll extend the OSP arsenal in interesting ways

[glad aurora]

CMD torps

[wary flame]

disco ball still applies if the strike craft can't pack enhanced antennae

[glad aurora]

OSP strike craft are going to vomit 200 S1s-100 S2s at anything which can't omnisoftkill and CMD torp anything larger

[wary flame]

personally I'd like a big unguided kinetic spike that I can shoot from my bombers at capital ship turrets and such, but if that's not uninterceptable it gets trivially slapped by defenders

if it's fast enough that might not be a problem if you shoot half a dozen of them in parallel from a wing

[low pier]

Something that might be neat would be laser guided for the strike craft missiles

[mint sinew]

We know they can pack illuminators so you always have the fallback of direct SAH which is hard to softkill. Especially with the illuminator so close the cone will probably be tiny

[sharp crow]

insane osp space warthog with a 100mm gun

[rigid bison]

Antiship grazer evenm

[fresh storm]

I have half a year of patch notes to catch up with

explodes

[wet root]

[Citation needed]

[glad aurora]

We know bombers can carry S3s and we have an image that shows a single OSP fighter being able to carry 16 S1s or four S2s

it's not much of a stretch

[rigid bison]

But what can HEI S1s really do to the modern ANS meta and it’s capital focus?

[glad aurora]

Hell murder anything that caps

[wet root]

We also know that number of strike craft in the air at once are limited, they cost points, and presumably Mazer wants them to have their own niche. It's unsubstantiated supposition being claimed as fact.

[rigid bison]

I’m just glad boxboat will have a use (as a box of bees)

[glad aurora]

Look, take 3x16 max warhead S1s - which we have direct photographic evidence are possible to deploy - and shoot them at a cap corvette.

[wary flame]

that's 200 points by itself, I'd rather go with four to eight S2s for a fraction of the cost

[glad aurora]

Yep, that's 1-2 interceptors moving at something like 60 m/s

[oak shell]

The benefit of the interceptors over just missiles will be that most of the points cost is reusable

[glad aurora]

For OSP, it'll also be specifically that they're a much faster and more maneuverable anti-cap S2 delivery device

I also assume they're getting a programming channels equivalent, or they'll also do S1 offensives better than shuttles

the big thing here is that they're almost definitely going to be able to kill a lot harder than anything that'll be racing a whip sprinter to a point, but they're not going to be able to cap the point themselves

so they'll have to have the usual sun shuttle behind them

[wet root]

I definitely expect they'll be effective anticap devices, it's the claim that they'll play exactly the same as other OSP S2 gameplay and rely entirely on volume, and that they will have even vaguely the same salvo density, that I highly doubt

Mind you, they could, but the evidence we've seen suggests against it, and more importantly, we don't know

[glad aurora]

I mean, if they don't rely on volume, they'll... kind of be bad.

Unless there's plane-only seekers.

[wet root]

There are a million and two ways to make them good

We've already heard of plane-mounted illums, IIRC. Multidirectional strikes dodge jammers. Wake val is potentially more usable. Plane antennas could exist. And those are without adding a single new mechanic

I don't mind speculation, I just get irked by claiming it as fact when we really have very limited info on how planes will play

[glad aurora]

Fair, sure.

[fresh storm]

planes with mines...

[wet root]

I definitely hope you're right about their anticap effectiveness (and I'd be shocked if you weren't)

Because lone cappers have always felt a bit silly, and having to send a fighter escort with them would make for an interesting shakeup

[glad aurora]

I do worry, conversely, that "the mandatory CV fleet" is a bit stifling for build diversity

Someone's Got To Be The CV Main

[wary flame]

personally I am a huge capfleet fan and hope they aren't just reduced to capital ships with fighter escort, the game is incredibly boring when you can't have the light units scrambling around everywhere

I really think carriers are an opportunity to introduce some form of anti-heavy specialist weapon in a way that missiles currently just aren't, so if they are relegated to slapping corvettes I will be sad

[wet root]

Yeah, you don't want to kill capping, it's just "unarmed and undefended cap shuttle with softkill" that's always felt weird to me

[wary flame]

those have mostly been optimised out of existence anyway, at least in my experience

no more than one or two per capfleet

[quiet quiver]

There's a fair chance OSP has a 100mm option for fighters, that'd make things interesting too

[low monolith]

I hope you can fit strike craft into cargo containers

I think that'd be funny

You can send them well away from your actual fleet to assist allies or something, could be neat

[rigid bison]

I mean they give the CLN a reason to exist now that all boxes die of softkill

[glad aurora]

hazel cannot handle the name 😔

[mint sinew]

Their stealth is too great for Hazel

[wet root]

Hazel has issues with multiple underscores IIRC

[glad aurora]

let me see if I can shorten the name while conveying the same essence

nope, this is apparently unhazelable

[wet root]

You could try with dashes

[glad aurora]

Yeah, I dropped it down to four words and it still popped an error, so I figure it must be a fleet file thing

[wet root]

Odd

[bitter furnace]

Will there be boats today?

[junior heron]

no plans otherwise

boat night's been quiet lately

[wicked mirage]

But yes! There will be boats today!

[runic torrent]

<@&942093958551588904> boats

[ivory juniper]

BOATS

[wicked mirage]

Boooooooat

[junior heron]

be on in a minute

[wary flame]

OK,let me clear up my archery equipment

[topaz jolt]

Eeeps I'll be a little bit

[quiet quiver]

The pain

[junior heron]

time travelling battleship

[quiet quiver]

It would have 18 teams with a berthing

[wet root]

Oh nooooo

[rain mica]

i mean, test branch will fix that i guess

[mint sinew]

Test branch ultimately caused that one funnily

[rain mica]

huh

[mint sinew]

They forgot to put a berthing back in after looking at test layouts

[quiet quiver]

I actually played a game with it on test I’m pretty sure

[mint sinew]

I've been trying to build an ANS cap fleet I'm happy with, throwing this here to get some thoughts and organise my own.

It broadly functions with two roaming elements fending off the enemy cap fleets (the frig pair and the S3 and Jammer corvs), the beamstone denying a point and two floating cappers/gun corvs supporting the rest of the suite.
Pros:

• both strike units kill MMTs in neutral or better engagements and can do so repeatedly
• beamstone good
• lockvettes are great SA and team support
  • They recently got upgunned to mk62s as they were getting into a lot of gun duels with spotters/lategame cap shuttles
• The corvettes often end up sneaking into the backline to pick apart spotters
  Cons:
• 100mm MNs are the bane of my existence
• Corv strike unit folds when caught between two offset MMTs which is very common
• The corvettes don't have the stopping power to take down heavier backline assets before a response can arrive (CLN, MDs, etc.)
• light on actual cappers (and the ones I have aren't throwaways) so in contested cap wars ends up losing a lot of assets to attrition on points
• hardkill pd is a bit sketchy across the board so CMD/SAH can be an issue

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Fluffy Cap Fleet 20240819' is composed of 9 ships that cost 3000 points:

    Counter Point : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Beam PD EWar Sensor]
Malachite Mystery : 'Raines' class Frigate [EWar PD]
   Jasper Jouster : 'Raines' class Frigate [Gun]
    Garnet Strike : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Gun PD]
      Rouge Rogue : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun EWar PD]
         Ruby Eye : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun Sensor PD]
      Emerald Eye : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun Sensor PD]
       Rose Thorn : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
   Mossy Murderer : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 5 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
               SGM-187 ANti Light : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]
           SGM-H-389 Fishtail-AAR : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[ARAD(RADAR)] - HE SHAPED [17pts]
           SGM-H-389 Fishtail-APV : DIRECT - ARAD(RADAR)/ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [17pts]
           SGT-330 Stronger Force : DIRECT - CMD/PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [12pts]

[wicked mirage]

Seems like it could work well! There's a lot of moving parts here.

I'd be interested to see how it performs in a game ^^

[mint sinew]

It's been putting up inconsistent but good results. This is a version of the cap fleet I was running on the weekend to mixed effect

(e.g. Misc's MMTs cleaned me up in the scout war one game while in another I cleared about 4.5k of mixed light assets while holding a 4 cap)

[wary flame]

you did pretty well with the police frigates, they got a few of my tugboats

would have had more impact on the game if they hadn't ended up stacked with the Axfords after I took down the destroyer on C point, they weren't holding any space the big boys weren't

[mint sinew]

They were very dead at that point, I think the only mount left up was the gun on the jam frig. Your gigacanisters messed them up good

[wary flame]

that's not on you, if anything the axfords needed to have stayed forward while you mopped up

the torp tugs are an old idea I've been bringing back, they do quite well in small ship knife fights and they can pair up to have a go at something larger if people go with the meta and just spam heavies

ANS capfleets are having a rough time of it these days, so often you just see a few capping sprinters and then nothing but Solomons

I had basically ran out of stuff that could fight, so you might have won with the single 120, but tugs are really good at soaking those

I was unpleasantly surprised by how fast the 250mm on the gunfrig took down my C30 ships trying to shoot the two of them

[mint sinew]

Yeah, been impressed by the 250mm. I threw it in there to try and hedge against MNs, but it has done work against light assets

[wicked mirage]

Yeah if you can manage the micro in this fleet I think you can do a lot ^^

[wicked mirage]

For sure I've also been turned onto 250's on Sprinters/Frigs to be able to hurt MN's while still killing small ships.

[junior heron]

box boat had a good day today

[oak shell]

holy shit

Missile warfare: poor

[junior heron]

also allegedly 35% load expended when I was out of all boxes by the end

and was moving to get into 4km missile range with beamstones as we ticked to 1000 points

[mint sinew]

Rocket boxes are doing some weird accounting where it's tracking the rockets not the boxes

[quiet quiver]

Tom, did you have T20s and s1s on this thing?

Also you may have to name the next one Box Boat VI

[glad aurora]

Box Box Box Box

[wet root]

Box Boat v2.2 Newer Newest FINAL (old)

[junior heron]

no to the t20s; there's c53s on the roof
yes to the s1s

I think having the ability to throw 10 missiles as a close corvette is really useful

also with the c53s on the roof there's a funky little pavise on the side

this box boat is very box shaped

[quiet quiver]

Tester apps for the carrier update is open, more info in Mazer's post on the Neb discord #749252281404489758 message

[quiet quiver]

Oh also the form has this pic as the header: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/409638848302153732/1276651784999534634/image.png

[glad aurora]

Oh damn, ANS fleet carrier preview

[runic torrent]

! <@&942093958551588904> opened the boat night channels, though I'm not sure if anyone is around today

[noble zodiac]

they're all busy voting on burst rails

[quiet quiver]

I am! Are others doing stuff?

[noble zodiac]

in balcon

(/lighthearted)

[quiet quiver]

The voting takes 1 click

[quiet quiver]

In truth, they're all busy shitposting about burst rails coming back

[noble zodiac]

for context

[supple sonnet]

Rails live! stomp stomp

I hope this is like, actually a thing though and not Mazer just being saltier than the sea he served in.

[noble zodiac]

oh btw

@wicked mirage your time has come

[olive blade]

I think rails just have a conceptual problem

they are supposed to be high power, long range, and accurate

thats just inherently good

[quiet quiver]

I mean the first one of those qualities got crossed off the concept a while back

[olive blade]

yeah and you never hear the end of it

[rigid bison]

yeah rail damage is, at the end of the day, not that high

[olive blade]

I personally always thought fire rate and giving them a cycle up time before firing would be the best way to do it

but I think its just tough because the fantasy is hard to balance

[rigid bison]

honestly my issue with rails (and beams) is not with the weapon(s), it's with the fact that one of the ANS's hulls has an identity which competes with the turreted variant of said weapons

[olive blade]

I lowkey think osp needs a beamstone equiv

[wet root]

Really Big Plasma Spinal that only the MN can fit

[olive blade]

yeah something like that

[quiet quiver]

I really think rocket shuttle wing is close

[rigid bison]

accelerates plasma much faster, keeping it hot and ready longer

[olive blade]

I guess I mean like

I don't think I'd expect to kill a beam solomon with a rocket wing off a good angle

and I have definitely lost them to single beam dds

[oak shell]

I'll be on in a few minutes

[wet root]

I've previously suggested a spinal torpedo launcher to help with that niche

Launch them at high velocity for better PD pen but they can't turn far off-course

[olive blade]

I think the softkill/pd packages make that a bit messy

[quiet quiver]

Shuttles are fast and maneuverable enough I've seen them outturn both beam turrets and DDs as long as they don't get shot in the 3-6 km zone

[olive blade]

yeah but shuttles don't fundementally do the damage

to big ships

in the same way that beams do

I think shuttles are amazing at monstering dds and small to medium ships in range

but thats a bit of a different niche

[quiet quiver]

It's not the same as old rockets where a lucky shuttle can kill a BB alone, but I think you underestimate them

[arctic magnet]

that used to be rockets on OSP release and I'm still mad they nerfed then

[olive blade]

maybe I do but I have found them kinda unreliable at killing larger ships

[wicked mirage]

YAY!!!!

[noble zodiac]

https://tenor.com/view/im-doing-my-part-serious-stare-gif-11979677

[topaz jolt]

Boat night!

I have some rail fleets but not used them in a hot minute

[wicked mirage]

I'm in Lancer rn but I'd love to play if I get a chance when I'm done!

[topaz jolt]

Lancer goes brrr

[wicked mirage]

OKAY I DIDNT HAVE A CHANCE TO PROPERLY REACT BEFORE BUT I'M SO HAPPY!!!! My sweet silver bullets are getting the love they've been begging for all this time 😭 Like thirsty flowers in the first rain after a drought they'll bloom once more 🌹 ♥️

Also that's hilarious "Let Pyrope remain the only rail player in the game."

[topaz jolt]

Honestly!

Aww

I've been wanting Rails to work well tooo

The little rail on my Keystone is a little awful tooo

[dark dawn]

Wait rails are back?!

[junior heron]

device spotted

[glad aurora]

https://tenor.com/view/bleak-it's-bleak-shaking-head-its-bleak-black-and-white-gif-9592734580409210082

[topaz jolt]

The Little Nymph go zooom!

I still don't know how I got to point C in time.

[mint sinew]

Power of faith in the flank button

[quiet quiver]

Patch Notes - 0.3.2.22:240824-2143

+PUBLIC TEST BRANCH+

Changes/Features:

• Removed NTDS marker set.
• Removed Battle Dressing Station.
• Updated Mk81 Railgun stats:
  • Increased traverse rate to 6 (was 3).
  • Increased cost to 75 points (was 50).
  • Decreased HP to 125 (was 300) and DT to 15 (was 30).
  • Increased autoloader capacity to 5 (was 1) and recycle time to 2.5s (was n/a).
  • Increased reload time to 110s (was 30).
• Added 20% discreteweapon-reload:energy debuff to Solomon hull.
• Reduced Redundant Reactor Failsafes cost to 10 (was 25).

Bug Fixes:

• Fixed WAKE primary seeker being turned around by gaps in trails.

RIP Battle Dressing Station

[junior heron]

ooooh

[wary flame]

I had a fleet cooking that was 2000pts of caps and a rail ocello

I think that might be even better now even at 1900pts of caps

[low pier]

Wait what does that Solomon debuff effect? Just rails?

[mint sinew]

Beams too by at least the description

but I don't know if "discreteweapon-reload" impacts beams

[wary flame]

it does not, word of mazer

beams have "recharge" or some other differently named stat

[oblique jacinth]

Is this to avoid massed rail Sollies?

[wary flame]

or rail solomons of any kind, yes

"invincible armoured brick sitting in the stratosphere murdering you from a distance" is the worst thing to deal with, and if the battleship is allowed to be a good railgun platform there's no real reason to use the others, so it's generally kept bad

[rigid bison]

railfords are (sadly) still on the table

[junior heron]

railfords are (happily) still in the stratosphere

[rigid bison]

it is good to see that the update did have some consideration for keeping railstones in the game

[quiet quiver]

Rails use Reload (Energy), beams use Cooldown Time (Beams)

20% feels heavy handed but any less would diminish to near-nothing with enough eregs

[azure lake]

Like 20% is gonna stop me

I'm pretty excited about this

[azure lake]

Wait I thought eregs don't affect it?

Might be miss remembering

[mint sinew]

RCCs was the change I think you are thinking of

[azure lake]

Could be

I thought both were getting booted from rails

[wet root]

Fixed WAKE primary seeker being turned around by gaps in trails.
I know this won't actually make WAKE usable, but I can hope

[mint sinew]

Every bug fix is progress on that goal

[rigid bison]

I wonder if rail balance and the surrounding longrange balance will reach a point where the MK82 can come back

[bitter furnace]

Crank the Solomon’s malus up and that would honestly be possible. The main reason for getting rid of it was that with it, the Sol completely outclassed all other rail platforms by a ridiculous margin

[rigid bison]

how much of a debuff?

[azure lake]

Honestly I'd love to the 82 just as a more durable 81.

[dark dawn]

So this is just Mk81s, the destroyer railguns are unchanged?

[mint sinew]

Just the mk81 for now

[dark dawn]

Fair enough, still a good change

Raillgun cruisers are my favourite, have been since the game launched
That being said, I need to figure out how to make them work

I do have a mildly silly idea for a pair of PUBcruisers with two forward-facing railguns and a torpedo backpack for close-in work and cleanup

[glad aurora]

single rail axford, 2-3 rail DDs

you do not have the room or buff modules for missiles, nor should you ever be closer than ~15km

(railgun turrets are paper)

[wary flame]

this one might be fun

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Rails and Caps Test' is composed of 7 ships that cost 3000 points:

Maintenance Budget Maintenance Dept. : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Rail PD]
                        Black Stones : 'Draugr' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
                        White Stones : 'Draugr' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
                         Grey Stones : 'Draugr' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
                        Scatter Plot : 'Draugr' class Clipper [PD Missile]
                       Napoleon Solo : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
                      Illya Kuryakin : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
```This fleet uses 4 different missile types:
```yaml
                SGM-1 Repo Freeze : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
               SGM-1 Salvo Assist : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [2pts]
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
  SGM-208 Dasmarket Vape Canister : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [11pts]

[glad aurora]

Oh, that boy's skeletal.

Not even any PD or all the eregs?

[wary flame]

maxing out the eregs gets you a grand total of 2.5% reload reduction for 60pts, not worth

[dark dawn]

Diminishing returns my beloved

[wary flame]

dropping a shuttle lets you pack in PD but ideally it's just sitting in the black

[dark dawn]

Are those the small or big chaff packets in the Ocello?

[wary flame]

big

[dark dawn]

Got it, are they actually big enough to draw missiles away from railgun sig increase?

[wary flame]

if you can you should try to let the rail bloom decay before the missiles arrive because the bloomed sig is huge even by chaff standards

but it can't hurt to try

[dark dawn]

Makes sense

[glad aurora]

If I was an ANS bomber pilot I'd love seeing an Ocello with zero PD, but my version's alongside an LN instead of a capfleet

Different points considerations

[wary flame]

plan A is "don't get bombed or cruise missiled, you have an MMT screen", if that happens a lot then I can always stick some auroras on

in test, 15 DC teams, workshop, DCC and fire suppression system can handle being shot by a single railcello reasonably well

at the very least, the guns are remaining fully operational at all times and the crits are being dealt with fast enough to avoid them stacking up

it is chipping quite a few thrusters, panels and track correlators off, though

about 15 minutes of railgunning from a good angle

rear C5 was a missile launcher, it didn't lose anything hardened

certainly not a rain of fire I'd like to sit in for ever, but BBs can handle it

[noble zodiac]

now the real question is can they handle it while being shot at by your friends

[dark dawn]

Actually on that note, wouldn't it be smart to stuff a dazzler on the ocello which when combined with the softkill should largely protect you from any errant S3H that would inevitably get flung your way?

[wary flame]

it costs about 150pts to slap a disco ball and a dazzler on there, yes, but given that that's an entire cap shuttle I want to see if you can get away with just sitting as far back as humanly possible

auroras would probably be cheaper, if anything

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Ocelloposting 2' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

 Void and Chess : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Rail PD]
Void and Cheese : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Rail]
 Volt and Cheap : 'Flathead' class Monitor [PD Sensor EWar]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-101 Hobgoblin : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
  SGM-113 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]

[topaz jolt]

Noo, my fleets need to be edited now. I use Battle Dressing Stations so my DC teams live longer.

[bitter furnace]

So funny story about that, the Crew Vulnerability stat is an absolute placebo

It doesn’t actually do anything, turns out

[junior heron]

what if instead, Battle Dressing Station had the bugged effect Workshop Repair Cap and just made your crews immortal

[quiet quiver]

And also if crew vulnerability did work as advertised, battle dress had the issue of being so fragile you'd lose it early

[topaz jolt]

That's fair

It was normally the first component I'd lose each game.

[deft current]

Say is there in game banning?

I only heard that if someone does the big bad you’ll get banned from Nedbis and that it was said ingame there’s only the "!!!" Warning system

[supple sonnet]

There was an incident on the Falcata server where they jokefully tried banned another admin from the Neb server. It worked, and when they tried to unban, it didn't work, and when they asked The Community Server Guy, he said he didn't know and had to ask the main game dev.

[deft current]

Ah okay

I just thought that I never saw someone actually getting banned

Only to fucking remember "wait a sec how should I see a person ingame who got banned" lmao

[mint sinew]

Individual servers can ban people and there is a global banned from multiplayer list that is controlled by the Devs, but it isn't used often

[supple sonnet]

Sorry, it wasn't another admin who was banned, it was the mod dev.

[runic torrent]

Huh. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2912097679 <@&942093958551588904>

I spy with my sauron's eye

[hidden echo]

Oh wow

[runic torrent]

Something... Nebulous

[hidden echo]

So you do!

Nice pfp btw

[runic torrent]

Thanks <3

You'll have to track the author down for rules

They're probably on mazer's server

[noble zodiac]

oh yeah this thing

[hidden echo]

Righto

[hidden echo]

Oh you’ve seen it? What’s the deal? If you know

[noble zodiac]

i saw like a reaaaally early version of it on this one neb campaign server

idk if anything i have from it is still remotely up to date

[hidden echo]

Ah I see

[noble zodiac]

fuckin. this was before my egg cracked holy shit its been that long lmao

uhhh i could go digging if yall suuuuper want but

spoons

(adhd moment)

[hidden echo]

Nah it’s all good! Been there, am there lol

[random grove]

Did-
Is this a nebulous boardgame??

[noble zodiac]

sorta

its like

a boardgame strategic layer that uses neb to resolve its fights

[random grove]

Interesting

[runic torrent]

"we have campaign mode at home"

[runic torrent]

The campaign mode at home ^

I love it tbh

[quiet quiver]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/939723540838629436/1278926718660251701/image.png

By Highscore

[rigid bison]

Patch Notes - 0.3.2.22:240830-2137
+PUBLIC TEST BRANCH+

Changes/Features:
Updated default Riposte missile template to be better.
Failing to load a fleet file due to an XML error will now leave a warning in the log and not print to the screen.

Bug Fixes:
Fixed all decoys having no icon override and appearing as a solid box.
Fixed missile designation input not having a max character limit.
Fixed missile nickname input not validating text for invalid characters.
Fixed skirmish chat being obscured by the HUD.
Fixed debriefing chat not rendering messages.
Fixed number text entries for player profile color picker not working.
Fixed Marauder Stern B reverse thrusters having 80% power instead of 100%.
Fixed WAKE turning to the trail's direction while well outside it in some geometries.
Fixed ARAD validator memory being cleared when it should not have been.
Fixed missile editor component selection indicator expanding clickable socket area.

[wet root]

Another day, another step closer to WAKE being usable

[rigid bison]

real 😔

[quiet quiver]

Also yay for riposte having a good warhead size and settings

[runic torrent]

<@&942093958551588904> opened the boat night channels, crazy busy day today my bad

[quiet quiver]

Will be there in ~10

[junior heron]

hmmm
I could take a break from minecrafting for a boat game

I'll hop on in that ~10

[wicked mirage]

Good Game.

[tulip vault]

wowee

[sharp crow]

an intimidating two hexagon gamer

[noble zodiac]

DAMN !!!!! congrats ^^

[junior heron]

dang, congrats

that's a lot of games since you mentioned being close on Saturday

[quiet quiver]

https://youtu.be/RA1_SUYpvco

Devlog is here!

[glad aurora]

I'm in the middle of a Lancer game, oh no

[random grove]

:0

[quiet quiver]

Yeah this is pretty fly

[mint sinew]

||OSP as the "carrier faction" confirmed is good to see. This is looking really good ||

[misty storm]

OGH

IT LOOKS SO GOOD

[glad aurora]

I'm so hoping that I get into that playtest

[misty storm]

God that edit

[quiet quiver]

Personal highlights:

• ||Craft config screen is lit, and looks pretty intuitive||
• ||OSP confirmed as carrier faction, and they have some very cool toys||
• ||New OSP toys includes a one-shot s2 launcher w/ fast-ish reload||
• ||Flight limits out, fuel is in. Including drop tanks||
• ||Fuck yeah craft automation||

[misty storm]

This game is so peak

[quiet quiver]

I think the funniest part of the devlog is that I submitted my tester app yesterday and it already evaporated my "any concerns for the upcoming update?" section

[glad aurora]

My concerns are still there, because we can't see what effects craft have on the cap war / whether CV players become mandatory in a team comp until we actually get them in player hands

[quiet quiver]

See, my concerns were more about small craft not being allowed to be too impactful. Cap war changes all the time

[mint sinew]

I think it's safe to assume the worst of the specific balance woes will get hammered out in testing.

Systemically there looks to be room for existing cap war concepts and spacecraft to coexist

[supple sonnet]

as we seem to remember it pre-MMT s unarmed cappers used to be the standard, and you will still need your shuttles and corvetts to cap at least acording to the lastdevlog

[misty storm]

We’re so backulous

It was never overulous but holy shit

[misty storm]

||idk what mazer meant by “one armed bandit” as a slang term/real life equivalent but i get the intent||

||and yeah I guess that defensive size 2s are real now, basically SAMs||

[misty storm]

Idk I think that the crafts that we have are final

Although a minelayer would be cool

||space hinds, pogulous||

Can’t wait for the mech mods lmao

[quiet quiver]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_13_missile_launcher

[misty storm]

I see

[glad aurora]

Yeah, but that's why I want to become a tester

to do the hammering

[oak shell]

||Bombs are the anti monitor tech we deserve||

[misty storm]

||yeah I was suprised to see the glide bombs||

||cool as hell though||

||I guess they’re ans only?||

[mint sinew]

|| per Mazer in nebcord they currently hit comparable to mines which will be a nasty threat #409638848302153732 message ||

[misty storm]

Oof

[misty storm]

||https://youtu.be/lpDLXmD5fSw?feature=shared||

||I’d assume the skiff is just a smoller radar craft?||

[quiet quiver]

Skiff is the small and sneakier radar craft, but Mazer also said needs more love RN

B/c the OSP scout, Pike, has some nice toys already

[rain mica]

||you say that, but mines have a horrific hit rate against defenders or pavises||

[mint sinew]

||The big threat is as a finisher for incapacitated but not destroyed targets. I've seen mines planted next to sad ships to good effect, this would be a lot more responsive even assuming equivalent pd pen. 100 damage rays are scary enough to capitals that they are worth jumping through hoops for.||

[quiet quiver]

No they hit as hard as mines do

[rain mica]

fair

it’s better mine bombing

[bitter furnace]

Nope! See 17:50 in the devlog ||for a combined rocket/bomb run with with the OSP Strike Fighters||

[misty storm]

I see

[glad aurora]

alright, now that I've actually sat down to watch the devlog

I'm one minute and twenty seconds in and exactly what I was worried about happened

sprinter's going for pillars B point, eats 24 rockets from a strike fighter cloud and disappears instantly

[mint sinew]

If a strike fighter group couldn't pop a lone sprinter I'd be more concerned. Replace the fighter group with an MMT and you get similar results.

[glad aurora]

Fighters are a lot faster and stealthier than an MMT, though, s'the thing.

[quiet quiver]

At 1:02 you can also see the sprinter has an empty c1 on the facing side and isn't firing anything from the belly so I heavily suspect that was an ACAP or pinardvette

[mint sinew]

Sure, they're also made of glass in comparison to a full ship. Tradeoffs that add more variety into the cap space. We'll have to see what tactics and loadouts evolve for the new space. Looks like we are already seeing that evolve in just the limited tester games already

Do we end up seeing rebounds, AMMs or even auroras on sprinters? Who's to say for now

[glad aurora]

AMMs are already mandatory on any serious Sprinter

[quiet quiver]

Oh hey Mazer just confirmed OSP can put CHLPs in bulker c4s

Carrier faction let's go

[bitter furnace]

those corvettes were played by Rymarq, the most "what the fuck is damcon" and "no PD best PD" player I have ever seen

famous for such exploits as the 10-monitor "capfleet", the 1500-point Solomon, and other such freaks of nature

[glad aurora]

I made a two-rail-solomon fleet last update, I am a knower of the ancient arts

[quiet quiver]

I'm conducting intel on like 10s of useful footage and NSLW just comes in and slams the player responsible

[bitter furnace]

I'm just saying, if there's one player most likely to lose their cappers to fighters, it's them lol. Not saying your concerns are completely invalid, but don't take too much from just that one game

[quiet quiver]

It's really far forward for the game state too

[mint sinew]

I'm keen for this. Giving "blind" bulkers access to "it technically has a radar" craft will be very nice

[bitter furnace]

there was another sortie in that same game not shown in the devlog, where I tried going after a trio of orbital bomber corvettes and the player was not asleep at the wheel and dodged all the rockets, as well as downed half the flight with AMMs

[glad aurora]

Oh, don't worry, I'm not doomposting

I'm just tapping the sign of "this is why I want to get involved in testing, this is the stuff I want to see shake out and bend into shape".

[bitter furnace]

Right, apologies I may have overreacted

[glad aurora]

Nah, tone's hard and I did come off like I was potentially doomposting

I'm sure you've had to deal with enough of it on nebcord

[junior heron]

the carrier's small slots are class 4...
railcarrier real?

[glad aurora]

this is why we got the PTB mk81 buff, clearly

railcarrier very real since I don't think carriers need module slots

The other thing that catches me out is "hm, that escort carrier has very large PD blind spots," though >current OSP cruise

[bitter furnace]

if you're talking about the Levy CVE, its pads are integrated into the hull and aren't sockets. That was mentioned very briefly

[glad aurora]

Damn, I thought the integrated comment was only for the "C6"

[junior heron]

railcarrier not real...

[glad aurora]

SEWACs being called out as "as expensive as a spyfrig" makes me wince a little

"can dump eight CMD S2s or four CMD S3s at once"
Stronger wince that time.

Something I don't think is mentioned much in the devlog: PD range. I'm going to go ask in balcon how often bombers actually get engaged by PD over CAP flights.

[quiet quiver]

Gonna make a meme about "VLS-3 corvette when the real bomber shows up"

[rigid bison]

I wonder how viable hybrid box/plane CLNs will be

[quiet quiver]

I personally predict pretty viable

[worthy bane]

I wonder if ttk on bombers and torp travel time makes "kill the bomber and turn" a feasible PD approach (or even just what bomber comm strength looks like)

[quiet quiver]

I don't expect comm strength on bombers to be super strong but also OSP doesn't have a lot of comm jamming available anyway

[worthy bane]

do we know what sort of range craft costs are in? the frames are circa 10pts per iirc?

[worthy bane]

oh wait yeah osp

[quiet quiver]

TBD, but the ones seen are currently pretty cheap

[worthy bane]

my rust is showing

[quiet quiver]

Point prices are one of the last things dialed in tho

[worthy bane]

yeah makes sense

just wondering what the risk/reward looks like on trying to jump capships early, from an "idly theorising" perspective

[quiet quiver]

Can't jump them in naturals bc of launch prep + travel time, but you can probably guard neutral points

[wary flame]

I have lost to the ten monitor blob before, Rymarq's fleets are cursed but you can't say Lady Luck doesn't love him

I'm personally hoping OSP gets some slightly more reliable bomber hunting capability out of this, I am very sick of bomber fleets

[quiet quiver]

Heya Misc, happy "OSP is the carrier faction" day

[wary flame]

I haven't got to the devlog yet, I'm very pleased about this

ANS carrier also looks drippy as hell, I am looking forward to flying CAS

[olive blade]

this is looking pretty sweet

[sharp crow]

that does look sick

really waiting for this update to materialise before I get back into neb

[wet root]

Same, definitely intending to get back into boat nights once carriers drop

[past light]

Favourite quote: "it probably says something about me as a person that I have a favourite radar... but I did make this game, so."

[past light]

This all looks incredibly cool

Honestly my personal biggest concern, balance aside, is the huge design space that these very flexible craft open up, lol.

It seems like modular missiles x10

That's more of a mental overhead and fleet design thing, though.

[rain mica]

honestly i think what says more about him is the fact he went “oh hey i could give them a one-armed bandit”

which is a very specific nickname for a type of missiles launcher

[misty storm]

yeah

like

whole new dimensions just opened up and i am so here for it

[past light]

From idly watching the video, it looks like it's hitting a fairly nice middle ground between strike power, anti-craft defenses, and craft durability. Seems like there's some space to play between risky heavy hits and more cautious but safer plays.

[sharp crow]

what I wanna know is how carrier heavy teams play out

thinking about the ancient days of navyfield where the carriers would send a horde of fighters out, shoot eachother down for points, and then leave the battlefield because they had nothing else to do

[azure lake]

The update looks lit

Tho it seems am about to get my ass kicked even harder now

Mazer is trying really hard to make me like osp

I'm really sad the ans only gets the small carrier tho

Forever stuck in Solomon

Can't wait for this update

[misty storm]

god the ans carrier looks so cool though

[azure lake]

It does look really cool

But it's so small

[arctic magnet]

ANS battleship admirals eating all the large hull budget

[misty storm]

berthings arent needed anymore right?

[mint sinew]

They won't be in the next minor update

Currently out in the public test branch but main still has them

[misty storm]

ok

[azure lake]

Oh I completely missed that

That's awesome

[azure lake]

God damn large hull admirals! They ruined large hulls!

[wet root]

Just watched the devlog, did Mazer just forget to circle back around to talk about glide bombs?

[azure lake]

Calling them glide bombs is weird

It's really confusing

But I love their inclusion

[wet root]

Didn't he just specify the big ones are integrated, not the C4s? Idk if you're working off more info than the rest of us though

Also very curious to see if you can mix carrier pads and container banks for the ultimate standoff weapon

[wet root]

Don't need wings to glide in space

[azure lake]

But is it gliding then 🤔

[rigid bison]

Sending a bomber (Craft type) strike package up to them might help, since they’re by definition away from friendly AA

Strike fighters with S1 offensives might also work if you’re hunting sprinters.

[wet root]

"Float bomb", "slide bomb", and "drift bomb" were all canned

[mint sinew]

Dropped on the cutting room floor, he gave the short notes on nebcord

#409638848302153732 message

[tulip vault]

I appreciate them basically shortcutting execution by minefield

[wet root]

They're dumb kinetic bombs. They fly at slightly higher speed than the craft was travelling at release. They're small and hard to hit. They do a shitton of damage with 100 damage rays, so they can finish ships off but don't work well against defended or maneuvering targets.

(Since not everyone's on the Nebcord)

[tulip vault]

discord let me ?preview? the server

which was neat

[mint sinew]

(fair point)

[wet root]

Huh, that's a nice feature

[tulip vault]

insanely rare discord w

[wet root]

I wonder if you can also order them to drop from like 10m away to smack PDless cappers

[tulip vault]

hmm, I kinda hope so

if nothing else so I can set it to that in desperation against still living capital ships

[azure lake]

I'd call em inertial bombs tbh

[wet root]

Probably a longer range for that (since Sprinters are dodgy jerks), but yeah, would be a nice last-ditch option

[wet root]

That makes me think of bombs that deal damage from inertia, like those S2s that were tested

(But yes, "glide" is a silly term, I initially assumed they had some minimal maneuverability from the name)

They could just call them "bombs" tbh

[azure lake]

Yeah

[mint sinew]

Depending on their PD pen they might even be a primary option vs softkill heavy capitals. Can't softkill a dumb bomb

[azure lake]

They are fuckin awesome regardless

[wet root]

I'm definitely interested in how a salvo of glide bombs + decoys works against capitals

Have the ConL go full-circle

[bitter furnace]

drift bomb goes pretty hard actually

but ingame they're just referred to as "KBU-15 Bomb" as you can see in the devlog

[azure lake]

Do we know how the 20% energy reload penalty on the Solomon interacts with eregs ?

[bitter furnace]

yes, it murders them. because for the diminishing returns math, the 20% penalty counts as your first 20% bonus

so your actual first ereg takes the penalty of a second ereg, and so on

[azure lake]

Damn

That

[bitter furnace]

I know that's weird, but it's how it works and it works fine for our purposes so didn't see much reason to spend dev time changing it

the goal is to put a flashing neon sign saying "railgun battleships are cringe"

[azure lake]

I thought that 20% was a good amount but damn that really does murder them

[tulip vault]

and good riddance

[wet root]

A bit of a shame that it comes at the cost of @junior heron 's Ocellopoker on the back of the Autumn (beam BB)

But sacrifices must be made

[wet root]

Oh lol

[quiet quiver]

Yeah, and if it was 19%, then the 6 ereg BB would ignore it

B/c it would apply the six 20%s first

[azure lake]

Imma do it anyways

[azure lake]

Lmao, ok that's amazing

That's a wild interaction

[wet root]

sort(abs(modifiers));

[azure lake]

Cannot be worse then missile BB and I do that anyways

[tulip vault]

You can build as many rail BBs as you like so long as they are not the meta

that was a dark time I don't want to experience again lol

[azure lake]

It did suck

I don't want it back either

I'm just really bored of cannon BB at this point lol

I've been stuck with one build for a year lmao

[wet root]

I hope, though doubt, that at some point we get a spinal big craft launcher for the Keystone

[azure lake]

That would be awesome

[wet root]

Let it bring one (1) SEWACs

[quiet quiver]

Also fun fact, the Skiff is cross-faction

[tulip vault]

some part of me is sad we didn't get BSG launch tubes

[rain mica]

i will say, grazers are going to be really scary

[mint sinew]

Just cutting off a Battlestar flight pod and calling it a ship

[tulip vault]

like they don't make any sense, but still

[quiet quiver]

There'll definitely be mods w/ them

[tulip vault]

no doubt

[wet root]

What I'm curious about is Sarissas

[rain mica]

oooh

[quiet quiver]

You can see it in the devlog but it's very easy to miss and few people noticed until it was pointed out

[mint sinew]

That's very interesting. A useful little budget option for when you need a lil scout

[rain mica]

also i can't help but wonder if you could make a hangar that can refuel and rearm, but not repair

[quiet quiver]

Which resulted in NSLW panicking that he accidentally leaked something

[rain mica]

or any sort of combination of the three

[wet root]

Sarissas have been way too niche for so long, I'm hoping they cause Problems for small craft

(Though not too many, don't want them to be oppressive)

[tulip vault]

opening up entirely new genres of space horror as I get disintegrated by sand

[azure lake]

Honestly that would go so hard

[misty storm]

true

[azure lake]

That and 120 RPF

[wet root]

It looks like smallcraft know how to use evasive maneuvers, do they might just result in a big area of "way more fuel to cross" and a smaller area of death

[tulip vault]

I can only imagine the sarrissa deadshot will be even more brutal for strikecraft

[azure lake]

"what Whipple shields? I say as am desintegrated by tungsten dust"

[azure lake]

That's also pretty cool tho !

Defensive onion my beloved

[wet root]

Yeah, I definitely would be happy with that result

Especially since it would make initial scouting have an interesting tradeoff of "go straight ahead and risk being annihilated by the first volley of sandshot" vs "scout half as fast and half as far as the opfor"

[azure lake]

The only thing I'm sad about is the turreted missile launcher

[wet root]

Hm?

It seems neat to me

[azure lake]

Oh it's awesome

[wet root]

Does encroach a bit on ANS though

[azure lake]

It just

Yeah

That

[wet root]

Yeah, that's fair

We'll see how it plays out

[misty storm]

i dont think its a big deal

[wet root]

I'm just glad for defensive S2s to be usable for OSP

[misty storm]

yeah

[azure lake]

Same

[wet root]

It'll depend on the footprint and refire rate, but yeah, not super concerned

[azure lake]

I hope we get like, an S1 turreted missile launcher for ans

[wet root]

Lineships do have a lot of C2 mounts though

[tulip vault]

I do not really think it will be able to do anything mls can't do in the offensive sense

[wet root]

Or to improve the torp turret

[tulip vault]

except maybe booping undefended cap vettes

[azure lake]

Or that

I'm really not worried about the balance

I think it's gonna be awesome

[wet root]

Yeah, the biggest thing I could see happening is Lineships getting a new secondary option

[azure lake]

I just wish the ANS got something as well

[mint sinew]

Plenty of time to see what other toys come out of this process

[wet root]

ANS being able to backpack strikecraft is a nice thing

[misty storm]

i feel like a S1 missile turret that can rapid launch missiles might be too strong? idk

[tulip vault]

eh the ans have enough toys imo

[azure lake]

Absolutely

[wet root]

Sad that it looks like smaller boats don't have anything new planned yet

[misty storm]

im fine with whats been shown

[wet root]

Vauxes having a bit more flexibility would be nice

But otherwise yeah

[misty storm]

dont want things to become too bloated

[mint sinew]

Broadside LNs get this too which will be very nice

[wet root]

Oooh

[misty storm]

those are c4 mounts?

[tulip vault]

I wouldn't hate vauxes getting something

[wet root]

Technically I suppose that means Ocellos can too

[mint sinew]

Sure are, that's why faction unlocked LNs are silly

[wet root]

But... no.

[tulip vault]

wait can they?

[misty storm]

give me the fighter launch tubessssss

[azure lake]

I disagree a tiny tiny bit because the vaux exists

Wait can the scout craft fit in the size 4 hangar ?

[misty storm]

hell yeah

[azure lake]

That's pretty cool

[bitter furnace]

Carrier Faction™️

[misty storm]

battlecarrier real

its just an LN instead of a CN

[bitter furnace]

Yes it uses a small pad

[misty storm]

are the c4 pads on the levy built in or can you swap them out?

[azure lake]

That's awesome

Actually adore that

[bitter furnace]

It means you can throw a couple scouts with EO Pods into your usual OSP fleets 👀

[mint sinew]

Local cap fleet returns to having an emotional support 250mm LN, now with fighter escort

[azure lake]

Those prove visual but not locks right?

[mint sinew]

Very excited to stick these on the back of MD liners

[misty storm]

strong signture

basically a bloodhound?

[azure lake]

Aight that's pretty awesome

[misty storm]

you gotta point em at one ship

but yeah it gives you a good signature to shoot at

[azure lake]

Hmm

[misty storm]

arent the skiffs getting a bit more stuff to make them more unique?

[tulip vault]

the eo pods seem nuts I gotta say

[past light]

Devlog said the scout EO is almost as good as a lock

It does look like they need to get fairly close to use it?

[azure lake]

I gotta say

[rigid bison]

Also the EO pod gives visual intel, so you can know track so and so is a beam BB or w/e

[past light]

But actual spotter craft is a beautiful thing to see

[misty storm]

id assume missilecam is gone though

[azure lake]

Im really excited to see 120 rpf effect on small craft

[wet root]

Just realized this also means nose launchpads on MNs

[wet root]

I'm somewhat wary of them at first blush, because it seems like just yet another case of "OSP decides it's not interacting with extand radar/jamming mechanics today"

See: EO containers, rockettainers

[tulip vault]

I thought you could jam rocket containers

but still, fair

[wet root]

Now you can

Before you couldn't

[mint sinew]

Depending on the depth probably also ventral/dorsal pads too

[wet root]

Good point

I think those are full C4s

[mint sinew]

Yeah full 6x4x6, just checked

[rigid bison]

So sad to see MNs do yet another thing

In this case play pocket carrier

[wet root]

Just not extra-deep ones, so they can't mount MDs, thank goodness

[misty storm]

we need the BSG style launch tubes

[wet root]

???

[mint sinew]

That's pretty mount inefficient on anything but spotter MNs

[wet root]

MNs have, like, one and a half viable roles right now, up from years of zero

[junior heron]

A bit of a shame that it comes at the cost of @junior heron (Tommy, he/him) 's Ocellopoker on the back of the Autumn (beam BB)

the malus is reload right? so with the burstfire rail it still gets the initial poke

which was always the hope

oh wow

[mint sinew]

Yeah, if you don't sweat the sustained rpm you can still get that initial burst then ignore it for a minute

[wet root]

Good point

[quiet quiver]

Depends on if mount sizes get adjusted, if the CHLP is 6x3x6 yeah it fits but I could also see Axford/Solly's c4s getting pushed a little deeper

[wet root]

I hope that they leave MNs fitting the launch bays enabled

Let the Best Dog shine

[mint sinew]

Deeper front turret mount is actually a notable Axford buff as it shields your internal stack with the mk66 better

[wet root]

(Putting a Bloodhound, EWR, and launch pad all on one MN for the Ultimate Dog)

[bitter furnace]

Super Intellitor

[azure lake]

I'm just excited about having a use for the Solomon back C5

[wet root]

I really enjoy how flexible that mount is

[bitter furnace]

gun, beam, interrupt, vls-2, vls-3, or helipad Soon™️

[azure lake]

I usually had some s2s in their because shuttles can kiss my ass

[random grove]

woagh patrik you play nebulous?

[azure lake]

Yeah

[random grove]

awesome

[azure lake]

I've had a break but I've been playing since the month of release

[random grove]

oh same

just haven't played in a long while

bad internet mostly

but now I have good internet™️ so games are once again possible for me!

[azure lake]

I just had an unreasonably long loosing streak lol

(I still do actually)

I'm at 19 loses in a row

[random grove]

my presence crashed other people's lobbies :b

[azure lake]

Iirc

[azure lake]

Oof

[wet root]

Was that an issue on dedicated servers? I've been hosting one for Boat Nights

[random grove]

yea it started happening when dedicated servers came in

[wet root]

(Though Boat Nights have become very quiet lately, and will likely remain so until carriers are in public test)

Ah, rip

[random grove]

though the stability wasn't great to begin with tbh, it just only effected me until I started exploding servers

but yeah :(

we'll be happy to play again

it's gonna be a lot of relearning

[wet root]

Mazer has slowly but steadily been patching out issues with the servers as well so there's a nonzero chance whatever it was was fixed

But hopefully we'll not find out

[azure lake]

Same

[random grove]

well I don't have bad internet anymore so I shouldn't have to worry about it lol

[wet root]

exactly

At least the biggest part of the learning curve is knowing how to navigate and plot in 3d space, and you know that already

[azure lake]

I wonder if people feel about railguns the way I feel about LNs because then I kinda understand the spite

[azure lake]

Huh really?

I always felt it was the fleet editor

[wet root]

There's a lot of depth there but prebuilts mean you don't have to engage with it

[random grove]

I've gotta get a hand on what the gamespace looks like so I can build my own things yeah

[wet root]

And you have a basis you can use as an example or as a starting point to modify

[azure lake]

....I don't think I ever actually used any of the pre built fleets

[random grove]

but carriers are really gonna shake that up

[mint sinew]

They've had a lot of love poured into them over the last few patches and are in a good spot

[misty storm]

have the ans fleets gotten any updates?

[wet root]

I think all the fleets got a touch-up not too long ago

[random grove]

yeah I'm looking through them and they're very different in some cases

Redwood in particular

it's a rail destroyer fleet now

instead of a CA and a wing of corvettes

[misty storm]

Being able to pack 24 defensive s2s on a corvette is gonna be mean for dealing with fighters

Like, vls 2, chaff box, defenders is gonna be nice, but you may want a bit more stuff like omni jammers, but that could probs go on the carrier

[wet root]

Oak has always been a benchmark fleet for good reason, the rest have been varying degrees of quality but nowadays I think they're all quite solid

[misty storm]

cmd omnijamming is gonna be even better with bombers in the game

cos you can jam the torps with em

[azure lake]

Oh shit I didn't think of that

[misty storm]

what threat size will craft count as?

is there a "only shoot craft" config?

[azure lake]

I sure hope so

I can't wait to make pd missiles to smack craft

We saw fighters pack S1s and use them in dogfights

So I'm pretty excited

Hmmm

I'm now thinking about dedicated anti craft builds

[random grove]

I will say

I don't know if we're gonna see dedicated anti-craft fleets

but the space for anti-craft ship designs is pretty huge

[azure lake]

Yeah

[glad aurora]

Anti-craft escorts are pretty likely

Return of the PDfrig

[azure lake]

PDfrig my beloved

[supple sonnet]

I wonder if we'll in fact see the one-armed bandit in the game, and who'd get them.

[glad aurora]

We will, and it's OSP.

It's in the devlog.

[supple sonnet]

Thank you, sorry. I don't do well with video devlogs. >.<

[glad aurora]

Fair enough!

[misty storm]

yeah

mazer had a corv with his carrier on ans

[glad aurora]

I feel like that's going to be mandatory because of how bad Levy PD looks to be

[misty storm]

and what would this pdfrig be exactly

[glad aurora]

that said, I do want to try Vauxhall-Levy fleet in a 3k

[misty storm]

i hashed out a corv real fast, it was just vls 2, chaffbox and 2 defenders

[glad aurora]

We don't know what works best against craft yet, but I'm going to guess 2x stonewall + sarissa + VLS-2

[misty storm]

it came out to 310

i think

[misty storm]

i see

i feel like a corvette may be more useful than a frig for purposes of defending a carrier so you can move quicker to respond to threats

and you gotta worry about containers too

[quiet quiver]

I think that was actually NSLW's fleet

[misty storm]

well, mazer showed some ans gameplay

[quiet quiver]

Yeah, just happened to see Wolf talking about playing it WRT the liner he ambushed

[misty storm]

oh, i see

im curious what he had on the corv at least

[bitter furnace]

I was the OSP carrier that game, AN carrier was Vren. I think the corv was a natural cap guard, but I'm not sure

[quiet quiver]

Ahhh, okay

[rain mica]

the thing that gets me as a modder is the fact that the one-armed bandit is a mag-fed missile turret

this was basically impossible to do before

[glad aurora]

Mag-fed torpedo launcher in mods soon...

[oak shell]

Class 3 triple shot, no less

[supple sonnet]

I mean the mag fedtorplauncher has been around for a whie now

[glad aurora]

Sure, but now mag-fed TLS is possible, which is the cool one

[supple sonnet]

Is'it the TLS the worstt launcher in the game?

[rain mica]

mainly because it can’t elevate and is stuck at C3

the one-armed bandit fixes at least one of these issues

more to the point, it mag loads

this could be used to make a reloadable rocket turret

or a mine thrower

[quiet quiver]

C3 is pretty manageable b/c c3 mounts are common on Alliance ships

The issue is that it can't pre-aim but also waits until it's pointed at the target to fire

[rain mica]

which leads to the lack of elevation doing it in

[quiet quiver]

And despite (most) torps having seeking it won't take a "good enough" pointed-at

[glad aurora]

yeah, if we're modding to make a mag-fed TLS, you can give it a wider "good enough" aim cone

[supple sonnet]

Did mazer not say the lack of elavation wsa intentional?

[rigid bison]

it's good for modders who want missile-turret based factions but also want the depth of a mag and/or a reloading turret

[supple sonnet]

I guess i am just struggeling as tothink why anyone would wantto waste more points on the woraslancher type in the game. as IWRC the problem wht the TLS neeidng topint right at it's target is just from how the aiming logic for allturted launchers work, (I.E.RL-18/36) if not turetsin general

[rigid bison]

anti-Craft that isn't from the age of sail (read: grapeshot)

[supple sonnet]

I think torps are probalygoing to be the worst anti-strikecraftoption

[glad aurora]

I personally don't want it for anti-craft, I think it'll be a really fun mod to make a TLS that's actually useful

I have not lost the dream of the Kitakami Vauxhall

[mint sinew]

Container AMMs are likely going to win that crown as funny as they will be

[rigid bison]

s3h might be worse on cost

(and the fact that sarissa, RPF exist)

[supple sonnet]

As we understand it the TLS's underlying problem is that it works best with high speed and low G tropedos,wich just fold lik wet papper to defenders

[mint sinew]

But S3H has a chance of surviving a head on approach to a nimble target that's likely pointing 20mm in your direction

[rain mica]

also, interesting that claymores will be able to bring flak guns

[wet root]

For reference, the launcher shown off in the devlog is a turreted, single-shot S2 launcher with elevation, that draws from internal magazines

For the OSP

Specifically intended to allow them to field defensive S2s effectively, since they lack VLS-2

[wet root]

On the other hand. A SAH container AMM is extremely cheap, and effectively immune to flak and S1 AMMs. And strikecraft can mount illuminators. So I can see a world where sending a strike of containers guided by a couple of strikecraft could absolutely clean up a furball.

Especially if the strikecraft also carry some evasive S1s or S2s to break 20mm

[misty storm]

I’m curious if the one armed bandits can be used effectively with offensive missiles at all

[glad aurora]

Probably, but you're better off using MLS in the offensive case unless you want more sustain over burst - which is doubtful considering how missiles vs. PD work

[junior heron]

it probably allows for s2 shuttle right?

not that it'd be good

[glad aurora]

That is a good question. I think so? It looks like a C2.

[wet root]

I think the S2 mount on the shuttle might be shallower than most? I think that's true of the Spromgtler one, at least

[glad aurora]

That said, defensive S2 huntress shuttle with 100mm grape top gun...

[wet root]

I could see the Bandit being useful to give some flavours of LN or Ocello extra reach, in particular if you're already bringing them for strikecraft defense

EWR Tugs too, in general I imagine any boat that brings defensive ones has very little reason not to pack a couple offensive missiles for smacking PDless or winged targets

Based on the refire rate in the video I'd be surprised if they're ever the primary offensive strategy though

Unless ammo elevators buff them

[glad aurora]

We don't know anything about modules, which is a big ????? space right now that really should be filled

but also I haven't seen anyone saying anything about the "does PD actually shoot down craft in a real game" question, so there's a lot up in the air from an outside perspective.

[wet root]

We do see 20mm chewing them up in the devlog, and we saw S1s in the previous one

Haven't seen video of S2s hitting yet AFAIR, but Mazer definitely implied they do when describing the reasons for the bandit

Sandshot, lasers, rpf, and grape are all big question marks though

[mint sinew]

Pretty sure we see a grazer delete a fighter in the devlog, let me check
Edit: Confirmed grazer at least firing at fighters at the 16:20 mark. Unclear the exact cause of destruction

[wet root]

Oh, I think you're right

[glad aurora]

Yeah, we do

I mean "if you don't have your craft randomly charge into 20mm fire or deploy missiles from inside Grazer range, do you lose any of them to PD"

[wet root]

Ah, fair

I'd expect it's at least supposed to be real threat based on how much it was highlighted in the video, but it definitely might take a fair bit of balancing before it actually shakes out that way

And ofc design goals might well change during playtesting

My guess is there's supposed to be a risk-reward tradeoff on how deep your strikecraft dive, but I don't think that's been stated anywhere

[mint sinew]

Final speed discrepancy will matter too. If the speeds are similar just charging into a furball with a PD corvette will likely cause a very bad time for the strike craft

[glad aurora]

I mean, missiles launched from point-blank range will be deployed with basically no reaction time, but when your craft can also just be Immune To PD and still launch missiles...

It might be that missiles for craft have half of the fuel they would when launched from a ship?

[glad aurora]

The speeds are similar unless you've got Plane Flank on

(after the speed nerf)

[mint sinew]

Close enough launched missiles are also functionally immune to softkill which is a huge win for hit rates

[glad aurora]

Yeah, it feels like that'll be a huge punish for softkill-reliant ANS ships if you want to try braving the mandatory 4x Defender

[wet root]

Assuming they're immune to PD is a very weird stance, given... the entire devlog?

[glad aurora]

S2's got an 8km range (unless there's something like "missiles equipped to craft have half fuel," as considered), PD range is 3-4km and craft are constantly maneuvering to give them psuedo-terminals

From what limited devlog footage we got, it seemed like the times that craft died to PD instead of fighters were when there was either a bug (the time when the fighters just ran straight into a Vauxhall's 20mm range instead of turning away) or a micro mistake/distraction

Which is why I want to pick the brain of someone who's been doing testing and can give some insight on what the actual game state looks like for that interaction

I will say, I won't be surprised considering Mazer's background/influence if the intended interaction is "craft won't die to PD if played well, bring defensive missiles or a CAP flight".

Since that's... how IRL air interception works

[supple sonnet]

PD can never work perfectly if missles and strike craft are to have any use.

[wet root]

Well. To a point. It's fine if 3k points of Aurora/Sarissafrig is immune to missiles and strikecraft, because then you don't have a fleet

[supple sonnet]

and as it stands there are missile designs that are basicaly unintercetable by PD, high G corktorps an flackskip s2h''s are both good examples of this

[wet root]

I would have guessed this before this devlog, the amount of video focus on them getting shot down makes me more skeptical though

Hopefully Mazer will test different thresholds and keep whichever plays best

[glad aurora]

Ayup. I'm itching to just get to grips with the stuff and smash things together until my deranged ramblings produce viable combat data.

Vauxhall 250RPF wall escort for a medium-line Levy...

[sharp crow]

I don't even have to change my three gun frigate lineup

[quiet quiver]

Moorline small mounts are 3x4x3, Shuttle gun mounts are 3x2x3, so we'll see

[olive blade]

however

for my strategy of constantly drip feeding garbage missiles until they run out of chaff 🤔

[supple sonnet]

See though, Neb largely mimics 1950s naval warfare, basically the last hurrahnof naval AA.

Ash And Gold ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) I will say, I won't be surprised considering Mazer's background/influence if the intended interactio…

[wet root]

Apparently if you build a ship with VLS on test then open it in main you can get mini-VLS

This has no real use. But I love the smallest backpack anyway.

[sharp crow]

a tiny home for your single missile

[quiet quiver]

Not a single missile, exactly 2

Possibly married

[glad aurora]

They're roommates

[junior heron]

roommissiles

[glad aurora]

... Wow, Hazel really doesn't like Vauxhalls.

Is this a test branch thing?

[wet root]

Try removing the underscores

[glad aurora]

Truly inexplicable.

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Ocelloposting 2' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

 Void and Chess : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Rail PD]
Void and Cheese : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Rail]
 Volt and Cheap : 'Flathead' class Monitor [PD Sensor EWar]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-101 Hobgoblin : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
  SGM-113 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]

[glad aurora]

It's literally just the Vauxhalls
Or maybe the missiles

[wet root]

Bizarre

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Test' is composed of 2 ships that cost 1536 points:

Major and Fake : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Missile EWar Sensor PD]
Minor and Real : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [EWar PD]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-101 Hobgoblin : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]

[glad aurora]

it's the missiles

yep, doesn't even matter if I rename the missiles to one word

[quiet quiver]

You on main or PTB?

[glad aurora]

PTB

[quiet quiver]

There's a bug with PTB missiles being loaded by main branch and causing weirdnesses, possibly triggered by ARAD but could be something else

[glad aurora]

Definitely got to be something else, these are conventional CMD flakskip

[lime jungle]

SGM-H-220 Not Very Fond Of MNs Block III is a size 2 missile that costs 13 points.

[glad aurora]

???????????????

[lime jungle]

SGM-H-220 Not Very Fond Of MNs is a size 2 missile that costs 23 points.

[glad aurora]

Is Hazel drunk

[noble zodiac]

what the fuckulous

[fresh storm]

making a boat with missile silos exclusively on the left side and calling it the [WAKE] Left

[deft current]

How do I deal with ocello bow tank?

[mint sinew]

Short answer: Flanking, beams, HEKP hybrids, overwhelming volumes of 450AP, railguns

[quiet quiver]

Torps hurt too

[glad aurora]

penaided HEKP hybrids with cruise wiggle pretty much solve the matter

[mint sinew]

The ideal case is to not let them bow tank, especially not at a range that they can also dodge effectively. So being prepared to just break off the engagement and deal with the rest of the battle space is a good answer

[deft current]

Me who had 2x450/rail Axford that didn’t do shit against one:

[mint sinew]

Bow tanking and orbit dodging is the Ocello win condition, so it makes sense that you need specialist tools to break through it from the front

[glad aurora]

450/rail axford

yeah that's just a bad ship

[deft current]

I hate dedicated rail ships but I like rail

That was the best compromise I found

[mint sinew]

If you've got 2:1 Axfords vs an Ocello just split up a bit and make the Ocello only able to bow tank one of you at a time

Obviously that positioning carries other considerations but it solves the listed problem of an immortal ocello

[glad aurora]

Yeah, the compromise just doesn't work

especially on mainbranch

[topaz jolt]

You might be able to try and get a Frigate behind it and Torpedo/HEKP it there?

[mint sinew]

Torps into the broadside is actually better in general as the drive stack is very resistant to HEI, but yes

[glad aurora]

I just wouldn't recommend torping an Ocello of all ships

[wary flame]

if it's literally just an Ocello, you stand a decent chance just running an Axford at it and beating it in a slugfest, since you have far better repair capability than your target does

if you have to stick at range, bowtank and orbit dodge means neither of you can do much to the other

[topaz jolt]

Honestly, overtime. The Ocello probably just loses against sustained fire.

[glad aurora]

It does, yes, unless you're making some kind of incredibly jank multiweapon build.

[wet root]

If the Ocello can keep distance it wins, since the Axford can't actually hit a dodging Ocello, but there's usually something you can use to force it into a better engagement

Also, Simply Leaving is often the best choice, if the Ocello is playing too carefully you can fall back into cover and can provide presence elsewhere

[wet root]

I recommend Axford + Railstone friend + some flex room for this, you get similar gun output with room for a few extra ships

Off-meta option is Gales/other S2s, Ocello PD is generally unable to handle bulk S2s

[noble zodiac]

alternative compromise: bring a regular 450 axford, but give it a 4TC spyglass, and then escort it with a couple railDDs

(pyrope has a fleet like this so you could poke her to hear more abt that build in specific)

[mint sinew]

I've got one of those I use heavily too, it's a good time

[wary flame]

hang on, I've been using that a while

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Shore Bombardment Incorporated' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

          Avignon Popemobile : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
    Sterling Lads Group Chat : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail PD]
         Semaphore Wirefraud : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
Defence Of Austerian Britain : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]

[wary flame]

the compromises you have to make to fit out a 4TC gunford means this thing is fragile by Axford standards, if you get hit you will lose your track correlators very quickly and quite a few of your restores shortly after, since you don't have a Solomon's armour or module space, but the combo with the rail DDs works extremely well

[glad aurora]

also make sure you don't get slapped by MDLNs

[azure lake]

So what's the current strategy for missile defense