But yeah those are cool, I can live with that.
#Nebulous: Fleet Command
wicked mirage
How does everyone like it but me?!!!
quiet quiver
I like it
It's called the flathead because when you get with the HESH you know you're screwed
rigid bison
I like the flathead, fits the fact that the MN is a brick
wet root
I'm not the biggest fan of the changes, Flathead and Ferryman both feel a bit too on-the-nose
Do prefer Draugr over Stormbolt though
noble zodiac
funnily enough the names Ferryman and Draugr have been in the lore this entire time
like it mentions that those are the class names of the ships theyre bringing into service
flathead is new tho
im... okay with it because it fits the aesthetic of the monitor but it doesn't feel diegetic or civilian enough to have been the original name xP
wet root
I suppose I can see it being a nickname for the uparmored MNs that caught on enough to see official recognition
But, idk. Just not a name that resonates with me.
noble zodiac
yea
mint sinew
I suppose I can see it being a nickname for the uparmored MNs that caught on eno...
Clearly should just go with the community nickname of "Brick"
bitter furnace
im... okay with it because it fits the aesthetic of the monitor but it doesn't f...
My headcanon is that the shipyard workers refitting the civilian class into Monitors kept referring to them as “the flatheads” and it caught on
bitter furnace
Because yeah you’re right it doesn’t sound like the original civilian name but it absolutely sounds like what a colloquial name assigned to it by people in a hurry would be
topaz jolt
Eeeeps only 4 points. Did they lose like all of their ships?
quiet quiver
It sounded like a mix of that and ANS bringing low hull counts in the first place
Probably overextended to cap 4
rain mica
this image has not been edited
summer shadow
What is that?
bitter furnace
Unless I’m sorely mistaken that’s a Kadeshi ship from Homeworld 1
oak shell
Are we testulous today?
junior heron
I'd like to
CLN changes are a lot of fun, and the competetive part of me wants to fight and die to the infamous bomber corvette squadron
glad aurora
It's too late
The bomber corvette squadron no longer exists
as of (checks watch) now
junior heron
LOL
Patch Notes - 0.3.1.21:240525-1830
+PUBLIC TEST BRANCH+Changes/Features:
- Split DC Board and Status Display into two prefabs for the more complex ships so they aren't as blobby in the bottom right corner but still legible in the DC board.
- Updated DC board container frame to have a slightly transparent background.
- Reverted Sprinter Mount 2 depth to 2 (was 4).
- Decreased C65 cost to 30 points (was 40).
- Reduced M-30 Mattock Mine cost to 5 (was 6).
- Increased storage volume of all mines to 25 m^3 (was 15)
- Reduced CM-4M Mine Container cost to 12 (was 15).
- Reduced Mk81 Railgun recycle time to 2.5 seconds (was 5) and increased reload time to 110 seconds (was 70).
- Removed Validator Memory option from avionics configuration and integrated into ARAD seekers as a time they will remember validator of any target for.
- Missiles will now choose when to lock to their current target based on time to impact rather than a fixed distance.
Increased Sprinter base crew complement to 55 (was 40).Bug Fixes:
- Fixed withdraw line warning countdown messages blocking mouse clicks.
- Fixed dual-purpose PD weapons sometimes being prioritized over available dedicated PD weapons.
- Fixed bomb shells throwing fragments at lifeboats.
- Fixed firing a CMD/CRUISE missile on a track with no TRP resulting in the final waypoint being placed on top of the target.
- Fixed PDMSL button disabled color being different from other buttons
junior heron
> Patch Notes - 0.3.1.21:240525-1830
> +PUBLIC TEST BRANCH+
>
> Changes/Feature...
well <@&942093958551588904> looks like there's yet more testing
dark dawn
Wait is the Railgun getting
Okay not 'buffed' but 'looked at'?
wary flame
Mine shuttles can no longer carry basically as many mines as you want, but they can now squeeze in 10, which is probably enough
wary flame
Yeah, but that's probably fine
It's not like a bulk mag shuttle is going to be taking hits anyway
wicked mirage
And if it does it's going bye bye anyway xD
Yeah the new railgun changes are great!~ The Mk81 on test branch is finally good enough.
wary flame
My 10 mine sundrive gremlin shuttle lives
wicked mirage
Oh wait, they changed the railgun again
God dammit
Literally a few minutes ago
Ugh I don't like that change x.x
wet root
Oh heck, I'll go start up a new Testulous server with the new patch in a couple mins
But game 1 will probably need someone to host it lol
(I'll also be a bit, should be able to catch game 2)
oak shell
I could host game 1
oak shell
The beetle for scale is very good
junior heron
I could as well
wary flame
Those guns are a fun interwar American experiment
18"/48 calibre guns, which are massive but a little stubby
more calibres is more muzzle velocity so they just stuck an inner tube in to reduce the internal diameter to 16", which gets you a 16"/56 cal nonsense device
wet root
18"/48 calibre guns, which are massive but a little stubby
Battleship carronades?
wary flame
once referred to as "a railgun level of armour penetration" by an expert I know
wary flame
Battleship carronades?
Either a carronade or a sniper rifle depending on whether you install the reworked inner liner or not
junior heron
<@&942093958551588904> boat night!
Regular channels aren't open so I've created one under off-topic voices
wary flame
Sadly that's a multi-day operation that involves a giant furnace as long as the gun and completely changes the weight balance, so you can't hotswap it
wet root
Tragic, that could lead to some phenomenal maneuvers
deft current
Man the Venn diagram between Neb, Vivi and here is a circle
@wary flame since when do we share like half the servers?
supple sonnetBOT
Pyrope started off here
noble zodiac
yea lmao
junior heron
dang, close game everyone
oak shell
New patch
junior heron
Patch Notes - 0.3.1.21:240525-2011
+PUBLIC TEST BRANCH+
Changes/Features:
Mk81 reverted to main branch.
supple sonnetBOT
Awh. :<
deft current
Patch Notes - 0.3.1.21:240525-2011
> +PUBLIC TEST BRANCH+
>
> Changes/Features:...
Yes it’s back!
noble zodiac
what the fuck do you mean it's back
he just reverted it to main branch
you know
the useless version
what the fuck is mazer smoking jesus fucking christ
deft current
what the fuck do you mean it's back
Wait wasn’t that the large rail gun?
You know
The dearly we lost?
noble zodiac
...??
the mk81 is the C4 turret railgun
the mk81 on main branch is dogshit
the mk81 on test branch is actually worth taking
deft current
...??
the mk81 is the C4 turret railgun
the mk81 on main branch is *dogshit*
the...
Ah the single barrel
Nah I thought they actually brought back the twiny
Wait
deft current
...??
the mk81 is the C4 turret railgun
the mk81 on main branch is *dogshit*
the...
What’s the difference between these two?
Test and main
noble zodiac
main has a 15 second reload time
test has (had i guess???) a five shot autoloader with a five second recycle (immune to buffing by RCCs) and then a 70 second cooldown
the immunity to RCC buffing made them scale better between CH and BB and the overall RPM was better for sidearms and the autoloader gave them a higher alpha strike which distinguished them from DD rails when focused in a build
but fucking. puppy insisted they had to have a slightly different stats
and then pyrope didnt like it
and now we lost ALL of that FUCKING PROGRESS
god
dammit
sorry
i shouldn't be this pissed
but also he threw away all that progress for nothing
and as a tester this feels like the fault of people i know, and i know that it hurts people i know
go go gadget hyperempathy
wicked mirage
I'm sorry
wary flame
oak shell
...where is the radar?
wet root
On the bottom slot, of course
wicked mirage
xD
junior heron
game looks stuck
wet root
Well good news
junior heron
oh
wet root
Is we can add maps
junior heron
lol
wicked mirage
grummy grummy cringe grummy cringe for legal reasons this a joke
junior heron
i'll alt+f4 and load up with Gold Rush
wary flame
bullet farming
Mazer was on caps and did some wild S2 sprinter tech with ARAD valmem, I need to steal it
wary flame
mixed salvo Arad/Act S2 and Act/[Arad] S2H, with big warheads, and then fully reinforced gun sprinters piled in front
needed some AMMs but the enemy MMT game was a bit lacking so he just got to cut a swathe through the sprinter and scout tug population
glad aurora
... Huh.
Yeah, that looks along the lines of what I was thinking, I just was planning on ACT/[ARAD] gigacanisters.
topaz jolt
Awww, I did the sleeps during Nebulous noises.
toxic scaffold
lime jungleBOT
Fleet 'Four-Riders-Improved' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:
Jack of Endings : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun PD]
Queen of Glutony : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun PD]
King of Conflict : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun Sensor PD]
Ace of Pleanty : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-106 Ember : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
supple sonnetBOT
the 450 savings let me fit a large storage in place of two rappids, and upping there AMM count
wary flame
could you do two smalls?
probably more durable and slightly cheaper
also four teams
glad aurora
lime jungleBOT
Fleet 'Legally Not An ANS Fleet' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:
Vauxhall (Large) : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Missile Gun EWar PD Sensor]
Second Jamming Sprinter : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [EWar PD]
Cap Sprinter : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [EWar Missile Gun Sensor PD]
Jamming Sprinter : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [EWar Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-113 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-210 Stoneburner Block II : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [12pts]
SGT-351 Ascalon Bronze : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [13pts]
glad aurora
I think this is how you build OSP fleets, actually
junior heron
Patch Notes - 0.3.1.21:240528-0238
+PUBLIC TEST BRANCH+
Changes/Features:
- Detection icon in the ship list card is no longer visible as grey when a ship is not detected.
- Added keybinds for ORB Track and HDG Track.
- Updated tutorial UI callout references for new layout.
- Added audio alert to multiplayer lobbies. Alert will play for:
- unready spectators if more than half of actual players are ready.
- unready players if they are the last one.
- players in the fleet editor if all other players are ready or in the fleet editor.
- Updated supertitle appearance.
- Updated starter fleets.
- Added new OSP starter cap fleet, Tantalum Squadron.
Bug Fixes:
- Fixed missiles missing narrow targets due to ideal track distance being too loose.
- Fixed tooltips appearing on ship glance bar.
- Fixed ship glance bar icons blocking mouse clicks.
- Fixed decoy container deceptive names having format tags visible.
- Fixed decoy containers having old ship class names.
- Fixed singleplayer skirmish games failing to save.
- Fixed orderable directional sensors tac-view cone remaining visible after the sensor was disabled/destroyed.
- Fixed mixed salvo planning buttons being locked in some valid cases.
- Fixed AI-controlled ships locking their heading incorrectly.
wet root
Oh, that ship glance bar icon blocking clicks was annoying me during boat night, glad it's fixed
Hope there's a cooldown on those audio alerts, otherwise people toggling ready will get rather obnoxious
junior heron
tantalum squadron is:
- 1x recon monitor
- 4x multi-mission tugboats
- 4x gun shuttles
wet root
Ooh a cap starter, tasty
mint sinew
Love to see it. Being able to direct new players to just grab the tugs from Tantalum will be easier than having to explain MMT and dig out the specific missiles needed
glad aurora
lime jungleBOT
Fleet 'Tantalum Squadron' is composed of 9 ships that cost 3000 points:
Brainiac : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [PD Sensor]
Hale and Hearty : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
All At Once : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
All Together Now : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
Joint Action : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
Scoundrel : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD Gun]
Charlatan : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD Gun]
Swindler : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD Gun]
Hustler : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD Gun]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-101 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-247 Slider : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [8pts]
glad aurora
thank you hazel, very cool
Huh, I didn't realize MMTs went for AMMs over Pavise and an ARR instead of ammo elevators.
I may have to go revise the MMT I sketched by vaguely knowing what an MMT was without having ever seen one in the editor
bitter furnace
There's lively debate in the MMT crafters' ivory towers about whether Pavise or VLS-1 is better
glad aurora
I am a Pavise truther, strong side anti-torp defense
Hybrids are going to get through small AMM counts anyway
supple sonnetBOT
It's interesting to see how the new standard of MMT is built as it's only vagual simulare to the tug duncans we have that fill a simulare niche though they operate in squadrons there PD built vary difeirntly
Tho i think the manually deconflicted grazers do help a decnt amount even though we don't have to have them set up the way they are
toxic scaffold
horable creatures
lime jungleBOT
horable creatures
Fleet 'Duncan-Moderinzation-MK-I' is composed of 8 ships that cost 3020 points:
Duncan Idaho : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile Sensor Gun PD]
Duncan Idaho : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD]
Duncan Idaho : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD]
Duncan Idaho : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD]
Duncan Idaho : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD]
Duncan Idaho : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile Gun PD]
Duncan Idaho : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile Gun Sensor PD]
Duncan Idaho : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile Gun Sensor PD]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-200 OwO What's this~ : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [8pts]
glad aurora
Yeah, if you're operating in squadrons you'll have much different PD
wet root
You don't need to manually deconflict Grazers nowadays I thought
glad aurora
The big thing that's puzzling me (though now I know I've bought way too much C30 ammo) is why ARR over AE
supple sonnetBOT
You don't! but e have not changed around the PD mounts on them in a while
Lark (They/Them) ↩️
wet root
Ah fair
supple sonnetBOT
Jamming resistance
Ash And Gold ↩️
glad aurora
Mm
mint sinew
The power of the Huntress/ARR combo was what popularised MMTs to my knowledge. C30 and S2s is more than enough power to win cap fights without the AE
wary flame
There's lively debate in the MMT crafters' ivory towers about whether Pavise or ...
it's AMMs, it's always AMMs
the ARR is a bit of a waste of cash, you find stuff with the BRN ping anyway and that reaches 10km just fine
you can also skip the RCIC since tugs have the best compartment loadout in the universe, but all of these are good things to install for newbies looking for low complexity stuff
glad aurora
What do you do against torps if you're relying on AMMs, though?
supple sonnetBOT
Set salvo size to 3
bitter furnace
You die, of course
supple sonnetBOT
that's what we do with out shuttle squadrons and it's worked for us. but those alo have a pair of T20's to grape the torps for all that dose
junior heron
you can also skip the RCIC since tugs have the best compartment loadout in the u...
which compartment is best for the CIC? the top one? or one in the stack for damage splitting?
wary flame
top one, it's so out of the way you can just tank basically everything as long as it hits the nose
and for torps you either jam them (if Act/[CMD]) or die, but it's an MMT, so you should be keeping range at 6km for pinpoint lock
wary flame
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/887570/view/4170974735580366404
<@&942093958551588904> Update is now out on main
my god these patch notes are long
did we really test all this
pliant dove
wicked mirage
Yeah, and that was all for naught unfortunately.
wet root
-Removed discreteweapon-recycle:energy bonus from Rapid Cycle Cradle.
-Removed 'energy' recycle type tag from T81 and C81 cannons.
Does this even do anything now that the railgun changes have been reverted?
wet root
I guess it might apply to Sarissas?
wet root
Fair enough lol
Slightly less to bother Mazer about next time he has the patience to take on Rails
wary flame
Oh the railgun changes didn't go through?
Every time a change was made to test branch it apparently started such a giant fight that Mazer eventually threw in the towel and reset to main
Come conquest, perhaps
dark dawn
What is it with people and railguns?
I don't have access to balance discussion and apparently that's for the best, but it means I don't know the playerbase's Opinions™️
supple sonnetBOT
they gave it an absolutely perfect dog!
TomZero (Tommy, he/him) ↩️
tulip vault
Aux steering compounding cost? Neat
wicked mirage
Slightly less to bother Mazer about next time he has the patience to take on Rai...
Well, considering he ended this time by throwing a tantrum and punishing the whole community by not even including the traverse rate buff from the first patch that everyone agreed on... my hopes aren't high for a "next time".
dark dawn
Okay
What the hell happened?
supple sonnetBOT
we heard he reverted it, but not about the tantrum
wicked mirage
glad aurora
We'll get there when we get there. This is a fantastic set of changes and really improves mainbranch.
wicked mirage
Basically to summarize it was
"Because everyone is arguing and getting mad over the changes the two loudest people in my roster of testers keep talking me into I'm going to call everyone children and shut it all down for my own satisfaction."
supple sonnetBOT
i know we've complained about this to misc and patrik but we're. starting to get a little more concerned about how this game is going to get with conquest
wicked mirage
I respect Mazer a lot and he's fun to hang with, but he really shows how he thinks of others as beneath him sometimes.
supple sonnetBOT
As the partner of a game dev (who has expressed this opinion on this topic), it's very stressful constantly being criticised for everything you do or don't do, and developers are meant to always have perfect composure (own comment: This is kinda insane.). It's no wonder he snapped over something so divisive as rails.
Pyrope 🩸 ↩️
wicked mirage
Sure he's human, doesn't make it right though.
supple sonnetBOT
Though I can't speak as to his character.
noble zodiac
ESPECIALLY because, at the very least, the 5s/70s autoloader paradigm was an improvement
wicked mirage
ESPECIALLY because, at the very least, the 5s/70s autoloader paradigm was an *im...
Honestly, it was still 100 points with as much or less total fire rate than the main branch Mk81. The burst fire was cute and I was warming up to it. But all I really wanted was the main branch Mk81 with the traverse rate buff and bugfix to its targeting AI.
But we didn't get even that.
noble zodiac
YEAH
-wait hang on
what was the traverse rate buff
from what to what
(im gonna check if mazer didnt forget to revert it or forget to put it in the patch notes smth)
wicked mirage
what *was* the traverse rate buff
3 deg/sec to 6deg/sec
wicked mirage
Course not
noble zodiac
augh
wicked mirage
It wouldn't be a proper "punishment" if it was only half way lol
quiet quiver
I assumed he just reverted an entire file or files to main version
wicked mirage
Yeah
supple sonnetBOT
I understand it's a minority opinion here, but as someone who is constantly incredibly stressed from latent anxiety, I find it hard to blame him for it.
quiet quiver
I might be charitable but I don’t he was thinking of it as a punishment, just wanted to put no further effort or brainpower into this and further effort includes picking out specific changes
noble zodiac
as someone who is also constantly incredibly stressed from latent anxiety, what mazer did here made it worse
wicked mirage
I don't blame him for having an emotional reaction. I blame him for wasting all my hard work on railguns as a tester and insulting his community after 3 months of silence.
glad aurora
It's a turret, people. It's not that deep.
supple sonnetBOT
And I get that too.
Gamma, Spreadsheet Sorceress ↩️
noble zodiac
the wasting hard effort
wet root
I remain of the opinion that bringing back the 24h slow mode in all the balance channels would make them a lot more pleasant for everyone involved, including Mazer
Admittedly I'm not a tester so the atmosphere there could be different than balcon
wicked mirage
I wound up hating myself for an entire day because I partially blamed myself for him flipping out.
noble zodiac
offers hug
if its anyone its not you im ngl
oak shell
I'm sure you are not part of the population Mazer is frustrated with.
noble zodiac
theres plenty of folks being actually toxic about it
sharp crow
I think if you rely on volunteer beta testers to put in time and effort to try and make your game better, you have a responsibility to be nice to those people
oak shell
- and you also have a responsibility to ban people who are being toxic about it
wicked mirage
Yeah.
glad aurora
Admittedly I'm not a tester so the atmosphere there could be different than balc...
There was apparently a giant tester argument happening in their own channel at the same time as the 2.5/110 change dropped
That paired with "ANS rails are now a CLN-level throw pick again" being put in balcon immediately on receipt of patch notes was...
Suffice it to say I get why Mazer reacted as he did.
wicked mirage
Like I said, I understand why he reacted that way but it doesn't make it right.
glad aurora
And it doesn't do us any good to keep re-litigating it.
wicked mirage
Alrighty.
glad aurora
On a different topic, there are a couple outstanding things that the push to mainbranch didn't address:
- C65 spread buff?
- Prowlervettes may be too good now
- SSJ should be more expensive
- MNs more expensive?
I think these are things generally agreed on, so we'll see how they work out in practice for the next test round.
supple sonnetBOT
py, you are the furthest from fault in this whole thing
Pyrope 🩸 ↩️
noble zodiac
for once neb name generator making something that isn't either incomprehensible or cursed or both
(/unrelated)
wet root
Unprecedented, please report as a bug
(I do love the absurd names it generates)
It's a shame there's no missile name generator
azure lake
Basically to summarize it was
"Because everyone is arguing and getting mad ove...
yknow Im actually glad I gave up on this game now
I hope mazer gets some rest
but I just dont have any hopes for this game anymore
glad aurora
Oh, come on.
azure lake
?
azure lake
cause they are exceptionally boring
and kinda ass
destroyer rails are good
but turret rails just feel like throwing the game
and even then I wouldnt care
if they were fun
wet root
Also why do railguns need to be changed?
There's pretty few good use-cases for rail turrets currently, they're vastly outshone in terms of rail output by spinals
wicked mirage
but I just dont have any hopes for this game anymore
I don't think things are that bad. Conquest is going to be awesome at least too.
supple sonnetBOT
py, aren't you a conquest tester?
wet root
They do provide access to ANS rails via the Ocello and can fit in the C4 slot on energy BBs
azure lake
I don't think things are that bad. Conquest is going to be awesome at least too.
I have no interest conquest 😔
wicked mirage
py, aren't you a conquest tester?
I was, but I didn't have enough sanity points to invest into being a tester anymore.
supple sonnetBOT
that's understandable
azure lake
I don't think things are that bad. Conquest is going to be awesome at least too.
Im just really tired of gun BB
and I dont like beam BB
wet root
Solution: missile BB
wet root
But in more seriousness, not every hull suites every weapon type, and that's okay
azure lake
that is ok
wicked mirage
Also why do railguns need to be changed?
The rail turret has this funny problem of its base traverse rate being so low it can't overcome the torque of the ship its mounted on turning or rolling in order to stay on target sometimes, which is compounding by the fact that guns are coded to slow their traverse rate along a curve as they get close to being on target in order to prevent them overcorrecting, which is helpful for other guns with decent traverse but just compounds the problem for the Mk81.
azure lake
the railgun turret is avialavable for exactly two hulls on the ANS, its really mid on both
runic torrent
but I just dont have any hopes for this game anymore
patrik why are you here posting this in this thread
I say literally as you post something else
if you don't like a game you can just stop playing it without raising some gamer stink about it
I don't pop into boat night much myself either i've just got other games now
azure lake
apologies
wicked mirage
Winged, chill pls.
azure lake
I just really like this game
runic torrent
no I will not chill
I got a user report
this is my job
none of this stupid shit in public channels please
azure lake
Ill leave the topic alone
wicked mirage
I see, I forgot where I was for a sec.
noble zodiac
The rail turret has this funny problem of its base traverse rate being so low it...
iirc mazer did keep the traverse logic fix tho
wicked mirage
iirc mazer *did* keep the traverse logic fix tho
Did he? Is this confirmed?
Cuz that would be awesome if so.
wicked mirage
I don't see it in the patch notes tho.
wicked mirage
Is there a way you could ask and make sure?
Cuz it was this test cycle that it was fixed for a bit
noble zodiac
just did
wicked mirage
Thanks ❤️
junior heron
and so shall begin the great "well I guess I should rebuild my fleets in accordance with the new update"
It's not like I play more than 2 fleets anyway
rigid bison
I really like the idea behind Tantalum Squadron, the MMT starter fleet. Even if they aren’t the best MMTs, it helps shepherd players towards MMTs by providing a worked example, and towards playing capfleets in general
glad aurora
Nothing but straight bangers from the name generator today
(I also sold the Being Sold immediately after because I can just use the Sprinter to carry my PD)
glad aurora
lime jungleBOT
Fleet 'Yard Sale' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:
The Top Sauce : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Beam Gun EWar PD Sensor]
Vague Boy : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD]
Being Sold : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
wet root
I'm always a bit worried about outsourcing that much PD to a squishy sprontler, but those are some scary sidearms
Just make sure not to accidentally RPF your own PD boat :P
glad aurora
That would be much less than ideal, ha
I'm considering going full 450BB with the sidearms, but at the same time, if a 450BB enters Mk62 range it's just dead
supple sonnetBOT
I can say from our own experinces that is vary much not the case
The queen of hungers escorts get a decent work out on there guns on most matches
glad aurora
Mm. I just worry about the plasma/250 LNs (or even worse, plasma/HESH MN swarm) if I'm actually fighting it instead of just popping out from behind a rock to obliterate a formation with beams
oak shell
In my experience, monitors don't hold up long at close range vs. beams
supple sonnetBOT
I don't know why you would worry about plasma and HESH, HESH dose not care about angeling and has enough pen to start with IWRC.
glad aurora
In my experience, monitors don't hold up long at close range vs. beams
100%, that's why I'm only worrying if I was running the 450 version of this
oak shell
got it
supple sonnetBOT
but plasma at the edge of 120 range is dodgable with out a raider drive for a solly in our experince
but if your relay worried about it invest in blankets
glad aurora
🤔 perhaps I'll make both a 450 version and a beam version and try both
I think the beam one is better?
but map-dependent
supple sonnetBOT
450 lets you consoladate your buff modules and as far as beems VS 450 on a soloman goes we honestaly think it depends on the player mroe then the map.
wicked mirage
I highly recommend having a GPC to make plasma more accurate. You wanna have a good spread of course to cook all the armor but unbuffed the spread is massive and combined with the slow projectile speed makes it just whiff at long ranges more often than not.
Also if you tighten the spread a bit you can hit small ships at close range with it, and surprisingly plasma will straight up incinerate Sprinters and kill them if you manage to get enough hits.
glad aurora
wicked mirage
LOL
supple sonnetBOT
Finaly a good use for GPCs on OSP ships
mint sinew
I highly recommend having a GPC to make plasma more accurate. You wanna have a g...
Actually one of the reasons I've been favouring C81 for my plasma needs. The C81 is innately more accurate than the T81 so doesn't need the GPC
wicked mirage
Finaly a good use for GPCs on OSP ships
Oh the GPC is vital for C65's. Trust me, the 450 cannot hit reliably at an appreciable range without one.
If you haven't already, try it and see what I mean!
oak shell
hmmm I thought I was forgetting something on my latest liner build
wicked mirage
Yeah it's the main reason why 450 liners can't really pack as much DC as the more brawly 250 liners can.
They lose a lot of effectiveness without a GPC or even 2.
glad aurora
Pyrope, did you see the latest iteration of my 450LNs?
glad aurora
One moment, let me check it's on points for new patch
supple sonnetBOT
we would beg to differ on that. but also we run 450 liners in groups of four and that fleet was built to supressess frig blobs off from an EWR track
Pyrope 🩸 ↩️
wicked mirage
O.O
supple sonnetBOT
from way back in the days of frigpololips 1.0
wicked mirage
Whatever floats your collective boats I suppose lol
supple sonnetBOT
4x 450 skely liners are vary much a chioce, though now they can fit an actual amount of DC and PD
wicked mirage
Oh yeah, I need to update Strawberry Explosions now...
glad aurora
I gave it more AMMs 🙂
wicked mirage
I can give the Bloodhound another TC and an ARR now!
lime jungleBOT
I gave it more AMMs 🙂
Fleet 'Creatures' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:
Sucker Punch : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun Missile PD]
Right Hook : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun Missile PD]
Bookie : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [PD EWar Sensor]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-101 Hobgoblin : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
SGM-113 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
supple sonnetBOT
we find that about 500-600 rounds of HE is about what a liner will go through in a match
glad aurora
While fair, I don't think I can fit any more ammunition
instead, I spend all my money on (counts) 176 AMMs
supple sonnetBOT
Well you could cut down on your 450 AP count, or switch to an R-mag
But yeah not having enough ammo is a peaty big problem to have
glad aurora
Yeah, I'm thinking rmag might be necessary
But at the same time, ech, citmag is just so useful
supple sonnetBOT
Take out the DCC and replace it whit a second Cmag. you already have a DCX
wet root
Or the rapid DC for an RMAG, the rapid is lowest on the compartment list so it'll be last to get utilized anyway
wary flame
My 450 Axfords don't have GPCs and you really can tell at long range vs monitors
against liners you're all right
but the cost of fitting the 120 loadout into 1500pts and bringing double Rmag so you can stand up in a 7km brawl is no spare cash for accuracy
junior heron
how well does 1x 450+120 axford fare if you do give it the extra bits, and some other support ships?
wet root
That's been my default ANS fleet for the last few boat nights, 450+120+softkill Axford with S3H backpack plus a nice Vaux
wary flame
I know a few people run that list and rack up massive damage with it, I've seen Khall pull 50k with 450+120+missile backpack
wet root
Been thinking about losing the backpack for a rear 450 and getting a mini-cap fleet in the remaining 1300ish
wary flame
but personally I'm not a huge fan of "Axford and change" lists, it just doesn't have the sheer mass of the axford pair and it's less points in brawling than most double liner fleets, which means you struggle to facecheck the things that the double dakkafords love to fight
doesn't mean it's bad, especially with missiles and beams on the side, just not my thing
junior heron
I am being bullied
wet root
Definitely fits my squirrely playstyle better than a brawly one
wary flame
Last time I played them I did split them halfway through the game and one of them solo killed an Ocello just fine, so you can absolutely do that
tulip vault
It’s been a while, but I really liked axford and some other stuff builds specifically for pubs where I could not trust my team to bring support ships
It does work better imo if you have like, a DD to follow your axford around, or some torps in said axford, though that is difficult to get away with
glad aurora
glad aurora
They can't fire straight forward, but light targets usually won't be right in front of you anyway - and if they are, you beam them
The top wing mounts cover the blind spot between back and front beams pretty well, and with RPF you ease up on the firing arc restrictions a bit
glad aurora
Presented without comment
rigid bison
What was the ventral C5 mount? Another rail?
eternal bramble
Presented without comment
ehem
||*they're||
junior heron
"OSP has more hulls" smh my head
spectatulousing pubs instead of playing or building
@radiant sable is the minimum conditions for an absolutely perfect dog just a Bloodhound and an EWR?
glad aurora
the dog must have a bloodhound and TCs
the EWR is optional
I forget whether the intel center is optional
junior heron
well, this has all that
azure lake
"OSP has more hulls" smh my head
Dayum that's a lot of destroyers
junior heron
railgun array
I've been trying the old "flank speed a ton of destroyers under jamming at the enemy" in my ANS pub games
glad aurora
only five DDs and a spyfrig instead of six DDs...
they did not commit to the bit enough
junior heron
someone has brought two RL-36 liners
glad aurora
the pub sickness is happening again
testulous might only mean a game a week, but at least it was a good game
junior heron
neither of these ships are armed
supple sonnetBOT
we'd say an apd is an mn with a bloodhound and as many tcs as possible
intel is not required and it can pack backup radar if you want but eh
junior heron
spectator chat understands the true meaning of spectatulous
junior heron
neither of these ships are armed
tragedy
quiet quiver
AIUI, the build for AWACS monitor is EWR, LRT, intel center, 3 TC and 1 ARR
Huntress optional, whatever goes in other mounts is personal taste
quiet quiver
"OSP has more hulls" smh my head
Also wow double missile fleet from OSP
glad aurora
The EWR is fake
Take Huntress + L50
(I think I also have a pinpoint on mine for some reason)
quiet quiver
So one of the techs people are experimenting with are HEKP torps for tug killing
One sec while I fish up a damage readout
I don’t have the build for the torp tho
oak shell
HUH
quiet quiver
Most of what I know is it’s low-pen so it both doesn’t overpen and concentrates all the damage
tulip vault
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/409638848302153732/1246038094784888852/im...
Hmm
I mean, that is a result
I wonder how it fares against bigger osp ships, since torps generally have the virtue of punching up well
glad aurora
update: these are unbelievably shitty missiles
I guess I can try it into a pavise-less MMT that brought AMMs instead? But you just die to Pavise immediately
If you assume the enemy has no Pavise, you can skip out on bringing terminals, at least
which also means you can skip out on maneuverability
Oh, I see how it works now. Yeah, you just go "I am only firing this device into something that doesn't have a Pavise"
glad aurora
Not sure if these are worth a 4pt premium over Ascalons plus "these literally cannot be fired into anything with a Pavise," but I will say they are much, much faster
(if I put the trongle all the way into speed, I could probably get definitively better damage out of them, but sub-5k range on a torp is not a good choice)
notably, these will No Offensive Capacity MMTs that didn't bring a Ceremonial Arming Missile in the VLS
quiet quiver
Yours might be a little suboptimal but that’s still interesting results, I was planning on taking a look myself when I got home
glad aurora
The ones you were looking at probably had a bigger warhead
pip bigger takes you from 17 to 23 ppm, let's see how they do on the range
actually, also, come to think of it
if these are only for pavise-less tugs, I can skip ACT/[CMD] and just go CMD - jam resist
no restores, no magazine, no MLS
you probably want it to hit top-in instead of bottom-in to take out the jammer instead of the MLS, since the MLS can't fire if it doesn't have a magazine anyway
is this worth 23pts? /shrug
tulip vault
Im pretty unconvinced by the missile that costs 23 points and dies to all point defence tbh
glad aurora
it's weird, because if people run the AMM MMT that beats S2s and S2H, it dies to this
tulip vault
Especially on a ship that can mount a total of 6 s3s
glad aurora
if people run Pavise MMTs, they lose to S2H but beat this
and torps just kind of don't care about the Grazer Tug
torpvette device
lime jungleBOT
torpvette device
Fleet 'Sss' is composed of 1 ship which costs 435 points:
Molar : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses 4 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-101 Hobgoblin : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
SGM-120 Carian Retaliation : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]
SGT-351 Ascalon Bronze : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [13pts]
SGT-390 Horrible Device : DIRECT - CMD - HEKP [23pts]
tulip vault
Im a little lost as to why a tug cannot just have both a pavise and a countermeasure pod Ill admit
glad aurora
pinpoint
these extremely weird missiles come out as a response to a specific school of capwar tug design that has C30 + Bellbird + MLS-2 + wing Pinpoint + wing VLS1 (this is also the Capwar Tug in the new starter fleet)
tulip vault
I feel like the pinpoint… I dunno Ill be convinced when I run into anyone other than tom who runs jammers on small ships
Okay it being in the starter fleet does lend it more weight, fair
I don’t like skipping the pinpoint, but I also like it more than my ship exploding
wet root
You could run a mixed load of Fishtails and these, have the ability to break AMMs or Pavises
Maybe stick a scout S1 in the chaff pod to see which you need to use
tulip vault
I think Id need to know what they do to bigger OSP ships
glad aurora
You could run a mixed load of Fishtails and these, have the ability to break AMM...
Yeah, the sprinter I sent runs 4 Ascalons (conventional 3g corktorp) and 2 of the Horrible Devices
sadly, corktorp dampens out into almost a straight line on approach to small targets anyway, but
¯_(ツ)_/¯
That's capwar
wary flame
these extremely weird missiles come out as a response to a specific school of ca...
The AMM design is basically mandatory for modern capwar, you just get whacked by cruise or bombers otherwise, and you need to make those kills harder in order to run them out of ammo.
The pinpoint isn't just for jamming, it's also to allow you to use your C30 despite having only a Huntress track to work off of, and to guide CMD S2s if you bring any. To really qualify as an MMT it really needs all five mounts with that exact setup plus the Huntress, everything is doing very specific jobs.
glad aurora
Frankly, if the MMTs are only bringing AMMs, I might actually pay the +20pts net for a salvo that can make one no longer a combat-functional entity (albeit won't kill it because rdrive tank)
The four corktorps are fine for everything else
... hm, I wonder how many torpsprinters it's reasonable to run these days
oak shell
10
glad aurora
you raise an excellent point...
supple sonnetBOT
I am going to have a lot of fun watching the tug Duncans eat tease missiles tomorrow.
junior heron
@noble zodiac okay so terrible story about that CLN:
You killed everything but the reinforced DC, BUT I had already started a repair order on a container bank
and by the time I went to restore my other DC and CIC, the repair order was done, and therefore the CLN was dead
I am in fact, that bad
junior heron
oh
noble zodiac
xP
junior heron
it was someone's sprinter
noble zodiac
yeah
junior heron
and also someone else's axford
junior heron
nope
wet root
Oof, classic DC experience there
night fable
It's Friday, lab rats, and that means it's time for more Friday Night NEBULOUS: Fleet Command! The next major balance patch is finally out, and that means new fleet comps to try!
https://www.twitch.tv/docvivileandra <@&942093958551588904>
wet root
Btw @junior heron fun fact, I hit your ConL with a salvo of wake primary a couple boat nights ago
junior heron
I believe it
as there is no way to separate deploying chaff from flares, I will continue to under-pack flares and simply die to wake
wet root
(IIRC they all hit an already-broken container bank though :p )
I still think WAKE[ACT] is genuinely good nowadays, it just falls apart if it sees multiple ships
bitter furnace
Boat?
wet root
I'm launching a new copy of the server since I accidentally left a bot in this one
junior heron
lol
wet root
(Had to add it to test for broken mods, but I think they've all been fixed since I did the testing lol)
junior heron
@runic torrent bote poke
noble zodiac
oh shit i might actually exist for boat night for once
junior heron
hooray!
wet root
MGS guard exclamation mark noise
junior heron
❗
wet root
Someone with a phone connected to their Discord could create a temp Boat Night channel
unreal hound
<@&942093958551588904> Boat night is open :3
deft current
<@&942093958551588904> Boat night is open :3
Boat night?
unreal hound
weekly nebulous game night
noble zodiac
is a regular session of neb gaming we have round these parts
yea
well its not necessarily "night" for everyone but
gonna hop into the lobby and then afk for a bit to brush my teeth
junior heron
I think it's just night for Misc? the rest of the european players have kind of burned out I think
wicked mirage
omw
deft current
weekly nebulous game night
It’s separate from Nebolous discords fight night?
unreal hound
afaik yes
quiet quiver
Yeah totally separate, but they’re scheduled about the same time
topaz jolt
Nebulous went brrr
mint sinew
Been running Misc's S1 lead missile tech for MMTs and it has been really effective. Was particularly funny when it baited a sarissa into the very unimportant missile rather than the real salvo
bitter furnace
turns out the cost discount on S2s makes paying for EACT actually feasible, and combined with ARAD valmem it's pretty good
noble zodiac
yea
glad aurora
What are these, 4-4 EACT weave?
bitter furnace
5 engine 5 warhead DIRECT weave, EACT/[ARAD] accept unvalidated
270 m/s, 13km range, 2.5G turn
bitter furnace
I put a brick nose in the LN and bowtank towards my targets
lets me live long enough under 450 fire to dump a salvo and sustain jamming all the way in
glad aurora
🤔 perhaps I bring back DA RED WUN and longhaul-sun my way back into glory
bitter furnace
I might be cooking
mint sinew
Deeply unsettling
supple sonnetBOT
How menay LNs set up like that can you fit in a fleet?
NotSoLoneWolf ↩️
bitter furnace
that very much depends on how much DC and PD we're talking here
this sort of super-buff build with the JRR isn't expensive really, it's just very limiting on the rest of the ship. Can't have plasma, jammers, a radar, anything power hungry
supple sonnetBOT
Well we are more wondering if you can keep it below 750 points or not.
supple sonnetBOT
It's more gread then it used to be with the DCX being a thing now
But 4x 450 LNs served us well and it's biggest enay was the heading AI
And when you lose a ship you still have a relativly normal amout of frire power and enamy team should be degraged
quiet quiver
It’s way more comfortable now with the new JRR tho
Before you needed BW2000 + PCC to power that many buff modules
supple sonnetBOT
🤝
why put decent radars on all your ships when you can put a perfect radar on one ship and just hope for the best?
rigid bison
have a radar mn in orbit and save power, module space for gunnery
supple sonnetBOT
we now claim this chat for absolutely perfect dog enjoyers
wary flame
Been running Misc's S1 lead missile tech for MMTs and it has been really effecti...
I need to retune mine since I changed my S2 designs, but it's great when it works
New MLS reload mechanic is incredibly annoying for me in particular but at least provides lots of time to set it up
mint sinew
I do wish it autoswapped missiles on empty. Having to manually kick all of them over to the second missile type when I expend all of the first is annoying
But also just a learning curve really
runic torrent
next boat night on <t:1717873200:F> <t:1717873200:R>
runic torrent
next boat night on <t:1717873200:F> <t:1717873200:R>
rain mica
as an update on the kadeshi:
glad aurora
can't even afford a bloodhound these days...
lime jungleBOT
can't even afford a bloodhound these days...
Fleet 'Range is a social construct' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:
Shark of Clifton : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Rail PD EWar Sensor]
Daisy of Gabriel : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Rail PD]
The Rabid Crop : 'Ferryman' class Clipper []
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-113 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
wet root
Could you lose the micro for another ereg if you go to boosted reactors?
quiet quiver
The CC provides a lot of PD coverage so you could probably cut back on the pavises
Lose two and you can get a 240 pt LRT tug
glad aurora
Does the LRT tug actually give a fireable track?
quiet quiver
IIRC 240 pts is enough for 2 TC
You can also squeeze power a little better for the Ocello with boosted reactors, reshuffle stuff and maybe get 2 lereg instead
runic torrent
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/887570/view/4173227169209563170?l=english <@&942093958551588904>
junior heron
🥷
oak shell
Is anyone up for some boats?
glad aurora
I would be if I didn't just get out of a match where the OSP team was a RL36 liner and nothing but rocket shuttles and a 3000pt CLN
Pubs are... not in a great place right now
supple sonnetBOT
Pubs have never been in a good place
supple sonnetBOT
And also the seond best map (caltrop)
rigid bison
Unironically rotating the maps around and playing less Pillars would be nice
glad aurora
Could you lose the micro for another ereg if you go to boosted reactors?
@quiet quiver not sure how I feel about the completely skeletal tug, but eh, it works (+large ereg)
lime jungleBOT
<@150453627440332800> not sure how I feel about the *completely* skeletal tug, b...
Fleet 'Range is a social construct' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:
Shark of Clifton : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Rail PD EWar Sensor]
Daisy of Gabriel : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Rail PD]
Park of Pascale : 'Draugr' class Clipper [PD]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-113 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
glad aurora
I'd like to borrow someone's CIA monitor, but I don't think it's actually possible to fit one into this fleet archetype
mint sinew
Maybe trade 800-R drive/RCIC for a chaff box on the tug? Give it at least the illusion of missile defences
glad aurora
I figure it'll ideally be in the Ocello Bubble, no?
mint sinew
I guess, I tend to want to space my bloodhound out a bit for hangup protection
wet root
RCIC, Rdrive, and DC? You and I have very different definitions of skeletal, lol
glad aurora
I get itchy when something doesn't have PD 😔
*that isn't an acap shuttle
(I also had a third small ereg in there by accident, I can fit a large ereg in there on the same assumed margin - one Aurora or Sarissa isn't firing)
wet root
Personally I might also go for another Sarissa over an Aurora, since railCellos have the room to get full value from their range
But that's just preference
glad aurora
True, I'm just thinking Sarissa Wiggle
wet root
I wouldn't worry about it with that much PD
You can use it to get past an Ocello's PD bubble but getting to the center of one is a whole different story
And Sarissas are surprisingly good at the snap-shot once even if they do make it to terminals
wet root
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/887570/view/4173227169209563170
Fixed map mods using the new addressable system not being correctly loaded on linux dedicated servers.
Hopefully this will fix people needing to reconnect to load the maps
quiet quiver
Ah, thank you Mazer
glad aurora
deft current
Ah, thank you Mazer
We had a EMCON button?
quiet quiver
Just added in the latest patch with the UI update !
supple sonnetBOT
It turns off all your radars and jammers, It stands for Emission Control
azure lake
EMCON no longer kills you in a minefield
I've seen it happen, very funny
wet root
EMCON (Permanent)
toxic scaffold
time for us to learn how to container again
lime jungleBOT
time for us to learn how to container again
Fleet 'ConL-Test' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:
Bene Tleilax Tradwife : 'Moorline' class Line Ship [Missile Gun Sensor PD]
Duncan Idaho : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [EWar Rocket PD]
Duncan Idaho : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [EWar Rocket PD]
Duncan Idaho : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [Gun Rocket Sensor]
Duncan Idaho : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [Gun Rocket Sensor]
```This fleet uses 6 different missile types:
```yaml
CM-400 CHOAM Transation Fees : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/HOJ(RADAR)/[ARAD(RADAR)] - HE SHAPED [5pts]
CM-400 CHOAM interest payments : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/HOJ(RADAR)/[PSV(WAKE)] - HE SHAPED [4pts]
SGM-104 Red Rose Petal : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [4pts]
SGM-106 Ember : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-140 Scarlet Rose Petal : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [4pts]
SGM-170 Look out, your Highness! : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [6pts]
supple sonnetBOT
duncan idaho 😌
and yes I am part of the group in our system that is trying to win the cursed ship naming contest.
And so many Duncan's the decoys will all be Duncan's when we use it
arctic magnet
that fleet must've been poopy
supple sonnetBOT
No they tried to charge at me over open space, the fight happend at 5-6 KM, and skelital bulkers have a lot of empty space for beems tog et lost in when they get hit broad side
When the beem touched a casmate it melted, but that only happend twice and we restroed one
tulip vault
How, if at all, does CMD val interact with ELINT LoBs?
wet root
I think it doesn't work any more as of one of the patches?
wary flame
used to work, no longer works because it has to have a track/brn-ping to draw the validation radius from
glad aurora
you can use [EO] on a LoB, though
very sad about no more eo valmem for that, but the anti-scout S2H still do work
glad aurora
lime jungleBOT
Fleet 'One MMT (fat)' is composed of 1 ship which costs 769 points:
The Easy Spit : 'Flathead' class Monitor [EWar Missile PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-210 Stoneburner Block II : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [12pts]
glad aurora
the final boss of all MMTs
(considering whether it's better to bring a nose-mounted T30 than the C90 bomb)
lime jungleBOT
Fleet 'One MMT (fat)' is composed of 1 ship which costs 796 points:
The Easy Spit : 'Flathead' class Monitor [Gun EWar Missile PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-210 Stoneburner Block II : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [12pts]
quiet quiver
(considering whether it's better to bring a nose-mounted T30 than the C90 bomb)
C30 has an even larger mag size than the T30 if that interests you
glad aurora
Yes, but the sunMN is too fat to follow a Sprinter at close range with the nose alone
angular thrust nerf 😔
wet root
I would probably go Boosted Reactor over Civilian + PCC
Cheaper and tankier
(Also I prefer chaff over the lone Pavise)
glad aurora
Anything less than HEKP S3H isn't going to kill a MMMN, and if you're paying for HEKP S3H chaff won't help
is my general thought on that
that said, boosted is a good shout, let me go swap that
wet root
Eh, a salvo of any other missile can strip off all your weapons easily enough
And it's not like a Pavise will stop an S3H HEKP either
Could go for a Grazer I suppose, I'm just not sure what threats the Pavise hits
glad aurora
Sprinter torps
wet root
I feel like those are pretty bad torps if they can't dodge a single Pavise
But I could be underestimating it, Pavises are good
glad aurora
Going to go fire a bunch of 3g corktorps into it and see what happens, though I don't think I can angle it properly in testing range
glad aurora
With new SSJ and skipping S2H, I'm dubious on anything not CMD AMM
and this thing is already expensive enough
quiet quiver
`enableenemycontrol true` IIRC
dbgEnableEnemyControl true
glad aurora
Which button is console again?
quiet quiver
F2
glad aurora
hardkills the whole salvo
T30 lets you shoot from that angle too
FINAL (FINAL) VERSION (FINAL)
lime jungleBOT
FINAL (FINAL) VERSION (FINAL)
Fleet 'One MMT (fat)' is composed of 1 ship which costs 771 points:
The Easy Spit : 'Flathead' class Monitor [Gun EWar Missile PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-210 Stoneburner Block II : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [12pts]
glad aurora
... actually, wait
I'm a MN, not a tug
I can put the MLS-2 opposite the Pavise, swap the Pinpoint back to where the MLS-2 is, and keep lock and have the PD angle
wary flame
I was going to make a fleet of these actually
glad aurora
is MMMN the Future
wary flame
three MMMs, a super sensor MN and as many capbricks as I can fit
glad aurora
how will we convince mazer that sprinters need to actually be able to kill MNs? violence
the only vaguely annoying bit is that it's harder to keep the PD no torpedoes, thanks angle thanks to sundrive AT nerf
also, fun fact: an ACA Bellbird lasts exactly as long as it takes for a MLS-2 with two ammo elevators to get two S2 salvos onto a target
junior heron
three MMMs, a super sensor MN and as many capbricks as I can fit
when are we coordinating the all monitor fleet
wet root
I have been wanting to poke at making an MMM myself
If these get popular I suspect I'll be running my Axford + mini-yub fleet a lot, a salvo of 8 ARAD/ACT S2s seems like the ideal solution to one of these
(Or 8 Stairs)
lime jungleBOT
Fleet 'Balance through violence' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:
The Easy Spit : 'Flathead' class Monitor [Gun EWar Sensor PD Missile]
Conch and Bling : 'Flathead' class Monitor [Gun EWar Sensor PD Missile]
Kiwi of Valene : 'Flathead' class Monitor [Gun EWar Sensor PD Missile]
Chips of Lorianne : 'Flathead' class Monitor [PD Sensor]
The Sixth Juror : 'Ferryman' class Clipper []
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-113 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-210 Stoneburner Block II : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [12pts]
glad aurora
there is only one capbrick and it involves giving up the DCX on the sensor creature
that said, if you don't actually need to run the LRT and the EWR and the Huntress at the same time, you can rearrange the power
I just thought the sensor creature deserved Sensors
wet root
You can lose the reactor in the ACAP for a rapid DC or more chaff/AMMs
(Also, give it a berthing and rmag for extra survivability)
glad aurora
oh, right, and the berthing- yeah
wet root
Same brain lol
glad aurora
not going to re-up the fleet based on that, but y'all know how it goes and I'll make the change on my end
wet root
Yepyep
Hmmm, I might prefer the C90 version, since the S2s give you range, and hitting anything Keystone or smaller with a HESH shell seems like it'd give them a Bad Day
And it means you can threaten Vauxen
But otoh getting the C90 on target is a lot harder, especially with the sundrive nerf, so idk
Btw, does moving the DCX to the lowest compartment significantly degrade survivability? Having the rapid utilized before it is nice
glad aurora
Depends on the vibes, I just like having the DCX in front of the RCIC
also think I'm going to go down in AMMs on the sensor creature to bring a couple on the acap
just five and two chaff
wary flame
if you're just making MMTs you can't RPF I don't think those need anywhere near so many missiles or a DCX, so you can probably free up a lot of cash there
wet root
Two chaff is pretty sad post-nerf
glad aurora
🤔
wet root
DCX does mean a random missile killing your sundrive doesn't knock you out permanently, but it's pricey
JRR+RDrive might be more cost-effective
(If that's a priority)
glad aurora
sundrive feels like it's necessary to get MMM working
glad aurora
If you take DCX to DCS, then you can get a two-hull wing of cap shuttles
lime jungleBOT
If you take DCX to DCS, then you can get a two-hull wing of cap shuttles
Fleet 'Balance through violence' is composed of 6 ships that cost 3000 points:
The Easy Spit : 'Flathead' class Monitor [Gun EWar Sensor PD Missile]
Conch and Bling : 'Flathead' class Monitor [Gun EWar Sensor PD Missile]
Kiwi of Valene : 'Flathead' class Monitor [Gun EWar Sensor PD Missile]
Chips of Lorianne : 'Flathead' class Monitor [PD Sensor]
The Sixth Juror : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
Punch Swept : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [PD Gun]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-113 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-210 Stoneburner Block II : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [12pts]
glad aurora
also if you take the second JRR out of the sensor creature and just assume you don't run the LRT and the EWR at the same time
I have no idea what the state of S1 offensives on shuttles is, so y'all can tune that to your liking
wet root
Note that going to DCS does mean a lucky missile (or less-lucky salvo) can kill it + your drive
But that might be a worthwhile risk
wet root
Ah, damn
glad aurora
+30pts (?)
wet root
Really? Isn't DCX like 70?
glad aurora
Ah, this is just assuming DCX -> DCS to pay for shuttles that are Functional
wet root
You could also pop the berthing to a big slot and just take a small DC in the center compartment
Those compartments are hard as heck to hit
glad aurora
Running a MN with a single restore feels like playing with fire, even if it's a MMM
wet root
Ah, this is just assuming DCX -> DCS to pay for shuttles that are Functional
The point of the JRR Rdrive build is to survive missiles, DCX is the relevant comparison
DCS doesn't have the DT
glad aurora
Yeah, compared to DCX + Sun it's -15pts
quiet quiver
If you ever do a capbrick with nothing but CIC and engine (and freebies) you might as well downgrade the CIC to an aux steering too
rain mica
glad aurora
lime jungleBOT
Fleet 'Battleship Removal Service' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:
Overworked Maid : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Missile PD EWar Sensor]
Cleanup Crew : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Gun PD]
Jobs Listing : 'Ferryman' class Clipper []
```This fleet uses 5 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-101 Hobgoblin : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
SGM-113 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-210 Stoneburner : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [15pts]
SGM-210 Stoneburner Block II : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [12pts]
SGT-351 Ascalon Bronze : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [13pts]
glad aurora
BB had double disco ball up + PD sprinter escort
Took ~1.5 mags of 450AP to finish him off at a decent side-on angle
after more testing - effectively, if the Ocello gets to launch at all with the 450LN shooting, the BB is just dead. There's nothing it can do about it.
A beam BB can get lucky and snipe the Spotlight, though, and if it does that and has two disco balls, then the strike fails.
The other niche option is to put the PD escort between you and the Ocello to save yourself, but I think good Spotlight micro can work around that.
What I really wish is that I could afford the points to bring a GPC on the 450LN, because the unbuffed spread is horrendous. Maybe cut the SPC on the Ocello for it, since torpedoes program fast anyway?
*this would also probably let me upgrade to an ARR EWR tug from the Huntress shuttle, but I'm not sure if that's a sidegrade or an upgrade anyway
glad aurora
I am at a crossroads.
If I bring 12 more torpedoes, I can kill two BBs between the LN and Ocello (3 magazines of 450 + 24 torpedoes each), plus having two salvos of 3 S2-HS + 3 S2-BSSJ to spare.
But that means getting rid of my scout to afford it.
wet root
I would consider "how many Axfords can I kill" as well
glad aurora
I can go run a couple tests on that, but I'm not sure how many non-greedy Axfords I have at the moment
probably'll just shoot at Oak 2.0
supple sonnetBOT
New Khall Map! Better Salar!
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3261294063
glad aurora
I would consider "how many Axfords can I kill" as well
Half an Oak per 12 torpedoes.
The general Vibe seems to be "12 torpedoes reds everything on an Axford, 24 reds everything on a Solomon, two magazines of 450AP is enough rounds on target to turn everything red to grey".
I have the launcher space for the full 48, but I feel an organic scout of some kind is basically necessary for this fleet archetype, and I can't scrounge 156pts otherwise.
wary flame
make both versions, then ask the capfleet for a pet shuttle and see what they've got going
glad aurora
pass the boof (scout shuttle)
wary flame
my first torpvette CLN kill of the patch
put seven mixed torps and S3H into a torpcello, six into a guncello, six more into this CLN, which died, and then kind of sat back and watched the frontline kill everything because the enemy had three 3k missile fleets and
pubulous is a bit wonky
glad aurora
Pubulous is... an interesting time
On the bright side, the Battleship Obliteration Device is working very well (killed two in one game)
quiet quiver
my first torpvette CLN kill of the patch
Even aside from getting torp'd that's an atrocious hitrate on missile play
glad aurora
Yeah, all of those containers kind of have the same response
Jam out the SAH (if any), chaff and move
but that's pub CLNs for you
quiet quiver
Not even any ARAD or [ARAD] 😔
wet root
They're SAH/HoJ/ACT, so actually almost impossible to softkill (with good illum micro)
But no decoys so they presumably just died to a single Defender
(And rockets are immune to jamming and chaff if you're moving forward)
quiet quiver
They're SAH/HoJ/ACT, so actually almost impossible to softkill (with good illum ...
Yeah that one got mostly hardkilled but a third of them didn't and still didn't hit
wet root
Yep, presumably the targets either got out of the way during cruise or they have insufficient maneuver
Or the CLN illuminated chaff/didn't get the illuminator shuttle in position
glad aurora
Yeah, I'm thinking illum error / illum shuttle jammed
wet root
(Also a type of illum error)
It could be an offset jammer pull + chaff or range out, but doubtful
glad aurora
possibly the funniest version is "didn't even have an illum," though
I have seen that in pubs before
wet root
I'm assuming that's why there's 270 points to spare on the CLN
But that doesn't mean they still had an illum shuttle
rigid bison
Having to micro so many fragile yet vital ships and/or rely on teammates seems…inadvisable in the pub enviroment
wet root
I mean, it's three ships
Assuming two illuminator shuttles
And the shuttles can sit at 10k and be entirely invisible
quiet quiver
The second shuttle can even hide behind a rock until you need it
wary flame
There were two shuttles, I am not sure what happened to them but either way nothing landed before I dunked it
glad aurora
Considering the Ocello with BSSJ/HS S2 mixed salvos and Aurora/Interruptor for Conquest supply line escort
wary flame
well, this was kind of bullying and I mismicroed my MMTs, but it works
quiet quiver
Can I ask for the fleet file? Either now or after the next round of tweaks, I'm not in a rush
B/c it's basically the kinda fleet I've been contemplating but I trust you much more to build good missiles
wary flame
lime jungleBOT
Fleet 'Misc - CLN Caps 1.7 (Too Much Decoy)' is composed of 6 ships that cost 3000 points:
Blade of Whitehall (Decentralised) : 'Moorline' class Line Ship [Missile PD]
Ministry of Silly Walks : 'Draugr' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
Ministry of Sound : 'Draugr' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
Lay Ministry : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [Gun Missile PD]
Master of the Horse : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [Gun PD]
Lord Paymaster : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 8 different missile types:
```yaml
CM-400 Quantitative Tightening : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [21pts]
CM-400 Technically A Container : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/HOJ(RADAR)/[PSV(WAKE)] - HE SHAPED [4pts]
CM-400 Technically A Container Block II : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/HOJ(RADAR)/[ARAD(RADAR)] - HE SHAPED [5pts]
SGM-1 Margin Call : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
SGM-108 Four Cheers! Block III : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - NONE [1pts]
SGM-208 GIGACANISTER : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [11pts]
SGM-208 Huzzah! Test : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [7pts]
wary flame
the basic spam containers have small warheads - adding more boom would raise the cost by a point each but might be worth it
they're not for full salvoing at anything, you shotgun them out in small numbers looking for undefended ships or weak points
good for hunting defenceless backline missile frigates, scout frigs, etc.
rockets for midsize targets and unlucky cap sprinters, then two salvos of decoy TRP - these are an indulgence, scrap them for more shuttles if you want
but they'll mess up a Vauxhall or even an Axford without interruptor or blanket to point at them
quiet quiver
TYTY 📝
Oh and four cheers is your patented MMT penaid, right I almost forgot about that
wary flame
I managed to get both those MMTs torped in that game because I was busy plotting containers, so there's a couple of kinks to iron out in the game plan
but the penaids work
quiet quiver
Yeah that sort of missile design in an MMT might be a little intensive for also having a CLN
Also I'm gonna put Big Chaff in the CLN myself
quiet quiver
Fair
wary flame
what's getting me is not knowing when to drop my cruise pathing and attend to the small fry
wary flame
Also I'm gonna put Big Chaff in the CLN myself
oh yeah, it has small chaff because there was a period of testulous where big chaff just threw error messages and didn't deploy
so I should probably switch that
quiet quiver
Is there weave on the Technicallys? (I can tell they're too cheap for cork)
wary flame
nope, with their agility it wouldn't help anyway
they're just bombs
might add some more warhead but I'd need to free up a decent chunk of cash
quiet quiver
nope, with their agility it wouldn't help anyway
You might be surprised, but that's still fair
wary flame
I do want to try proper cork containers with HOJ in an attempt to snipe the jammer corv out of a bomber pair while dodging the defenders on the other one, but that's an extreme long shot
quiet quiver
You've seen that one test run I did too, right?
wary flame
don't believe so
quiet quiver
This is vs the side of Moral Failing (2 defender 1 stonewall), unfortunately while not min-range these're still a little lacking in that dept, with 10 engine pips the longest range is only 13km
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/943416769660452904/1231650235176976394/image.png
wary flame
I've only got six channels, so cork strikes are probably not feasible as an actual basic spam approach, but it does raise my estimate of getting this anti-bomber thing to work
quiet quiver
But I think vs just 1 defender you might be able to get away with slapping weave on low-agility and not having the first die before 800 meters means the 5th or 6th can connect. Which isn't great compared to a proper decoy strike but it's... maybe feasible?
It's on my to-do to test again
wary flame
one defender will happily eat the entire salvo one by one at almost any range as long as it can reliably hit at some point, you really need Big Mass
but I think maybe with just a pinch of decoys
glad aurora
@noble zodiac join the stackulous
noble zodiac
yes
wary flame
OK, I've been doing some scheming
the reason battleships can almost ignore 450 LNs right now is because they have very thick and heavily sloped armour and can sit outside the range of plasma, bouncing everything on 58cm plating
armour multipliers from angling cap at 2.5x the listed value
missile explosions are hardcoded to hit the armour at 90 degrees, they are unaffected by angling, and armour shredding reduces the armour inside the blast radius by the missile's full pen value except at the very edge, where it's smoothed out
rocket containers fire six submunitions with a pen value of 38cm, which is actually more than they need to pen a vaux but hits a very important breakpoint
2.5(58-38) = 50cm effective armour, which is less than 450HE's pen value of 65cm
theoretically, spraying a BB with rocket containers should make it possible to farm it with 450 at very good angles - 450HE does fine hitting intact BB plating on the flat, and that only overmatches the armour by 7cm of pen rather than 15, so you should be able to punch deep enough to do something useful even at max angling
BBs really struggle to softkill rocket boxes too, since they're too sluggish to get behind their own chaff
this is six rocket boxes spread out across the side of a BB - I had the PD off, but that's still a lot of grey armour that basically doesn't exist any longer, and I got the rear VLS and a main engine by complete accident into the bargain
if you move the rockets in from roughly the same angle that the 450LNs are engaging from you should be able to focus your rockets on the areas of the BB they're hitting, but obviously it's harder in a real match when it could be retreating and chaffing
junior heron
heck, I'm running Pathfinder today so I can't try this out during Boat Night
interesting ideas though
wary flame
a CLN with six channels and a big stack of rockets is also exactly what you want for doing everything else, so the homemade plasma containers don't have much of an opportunity cost
might take a couple of volleys to really soften a BB up, though
noble zodiac
“mazer can we get plasma container”
“we have plasma container at home”
plasma container at home:
more seriously: huh
that’s a fascinating idea
quiet quiver
TBF, cannons also degrade armor as long as it doesn't ricochet, but 450mm does it in a 1.25m radius and rockets have a much nicer 4m radius
oak shell
Does anyone have a quick evaluation of what 100mm shells pen which ANS ships?
noble zodiac
TBF, cannons also degrade armor as long as it doesn't *ricochet*, but 450mm does...
and rockets spread out a bunch too
wicked mirage
bote nite?
dense fractal
botenite
runic torrent
ah thanks my bad
channels open you guys o/ <@&942093958551588904> I lose track of the time sometimes, feel free to poke me whenever I do
oak shell
Thank you!
dense fractal
yeehoo
glad aurora
if you move the rockets in from roughly the same angle that the 450LNs are engag...
I'm not sure I buy the rocketainers, honestly - properly built 450LNs are already fine if they can get broadside, it's that they can't in the scenarios a lot of people are bitching about (4TC Spy battleship hovering bow-in and occasionally chucking S2H at your small assets). The rocketainer strategy also helldies to sarissafrig escort, but I can count on one hand the number of those I've seen, so you're probably safe.
I don't know, I personally think people just need to practice combined arms like this in order to red out BB components and then follow up with 450AP to kill them if they don't have a critical mass of LNs (some of the balconites say 4-5 works).
Should it be down to 2-3 LNs to achieve points parity, assuming the LNs have actual DC and PD? Maybe, but that means that skeletal LNs end up well below points parity.
wary flame
Skeletal LNs also die in incredibly short order, that problem was very much solved with the introduction of the DCX coupled with the development of 4TC spyglass to provide effective fire all the way out to the edge of 450 range.
You can jink rocket containers through sarissas, they're cruise missiles so drawing min-distance waypoints in a spiral (usually a three-point triangle, people call it "trongle") will have the container vary acceleration constantly enough to evade sarissa fire until they get close and you have to straighten them out to make an attack run to stage range, at which point they become six rockets each and sarissas become irrelevant.
The rocket container strat is generally untested, I need a spare hour to run some proper tests and I won't get it until the day after tomorrow, but in theory it works fine from any aspect, since angling has a maximum effect and a BB armour plate that's taken a single rocket is ablated enough for 450HE to pen at max angle. The main goal is to braise an advancing BB a bit with 6-12 boxes and then have the 450 ships dump it, but a simple principle of "whenever you see a BB in a fight, toast it gently to help the gunships" might be good to instigate.
glad aurora
Makes sense. Looking forward to whether this works out.
mint sinew
@quiet quiver
lime jungleBOT
<@150453627440332800>
Fleet 'An Abomination Most Efficient' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:
"Raisin" Brownies : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Missile Plasma Gun PD Sensor]
Pineapple Pancakes : 'Marauder' class Line Ship [Missile Gun PD]
Mayo Crisps : 'Draugr' class Clipper [EWar Gun PD]
Chicken Tartare : 'Draugr' class Clipper [Sensor Gun PD]
Barrel Aged Fish : 'Ferryman' class Clipper [Gun PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses 6 different missile types:
```yaml
CM-403 Punchy Active Decoy : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [5pts]
CM-417 Heavy Rock : CRUISE - ARAD(RADAR)/ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [12pts]
CM-432 Chair : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [5pts]
CM-S-417 Rock Block : CRUISE - ARAD(RADAR)/ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [21pts]
SGM-111 Demister : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-123 Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
high kiln
Thanks everyone for the intro to boat nite!
wary flame
<@&942093958551588904> does anyone want to boat
tulip vault
I have just loaded into a dota match 😔
quiet quiver
I would be down, either in ~10 if just me and Misc or a bit later when others are ready/available
dense fractal
Ill be down, just got to do the dishes
oak shell
I can boat
dense fractal
<@&942093958551588904> does anyone want to boat
When do you want to boat?
oak shell
I have made a boats channel
wary flame
600mm
wary flame
tulip vault
lmao
azure lake
Lol
Aight y'all
I'm trying to get back into the game
How do we build BBs nowadays
So far all my attempts have been
Mid
oak shell
Gun or beam
azure lake
gun
azure lake
hmm
I have been bringing 120 guns for flak and secundary battery
Ive not really been hit by missiles
like at all so far
wary flame
you want all the softkill you can get, and then a seasoning of 20mm
I should cook a BB, I'll do it after archery
azure lake
you want all the softkill you can get, and then a seasoning of 20mm
how often do BBs die to missiles ?
wary flame
Rarely, if they use their softkill properly
more frequently if they think "I'm big and scary and get by on hardkill" and then get dumped by containers or torpedoes, which happens a lot in pub games
azure lake
interesting interesting
azure lake
you want all the softkill you can get, and then a seasoning of 20mm
I see what you mean now
rain mica
Copying over because Tart isn’t here:
PRISM 0.6.12 Experimental Branch
https://www.patreon.com/posts/prism-0-6-12-105955334
- Added optional 1pt "Inertial Guidance Package" seeker to the Plow rocket. Removed all other seekers.
> Compensates for the drift incurred by firing from a moving ship, dramatically improving hit rates when not flying directly at the enemy.
> It is un-jammable but easy to dodge as it does not follow evasive maneuvers.
> You can be cheap and go without a seeker too...
> This seeker is also available to other missiles if you ever find a use for it.
- Specter long range torpedo is now twice as hard to identify, delaying automated soft-kill responses.
- Probably fixed the Hot Launch direct guidance avionics package from the Plow for good?
- Bernoulli cost reduction should now be consistently applied outside of the fleet editor.
- Tweaked the damage shader to fix the glitches at the nameplate's seams.
- Uniformized damaged "innards" texture scale.
- Fixed turret sound audible across the map.
“I think this is fairly bug free now? Please keep reporting any issue, bugs or balance, and enjoy!”
rain mica
Since apparently this is what i do now;
PRISM - Experimental Branch 0.6.13
PRISM EXPERIMENTAL now requires the AGMLib - Beta mod
- Fixed hull badge size issue (thanks Mazer!)
- GOLIS inertial seeker will release flares
- Muselar, Spinet and the Plow rocket have been removed from ANS' arsenal until all avionics and seeker availability issues can be firmly resolved
- Fixed Plow inheriting the behavior of the last missile if its avionics was not clicked on when created
- Glare fall-off curve significantly buffed
> minimum damage at max range increased from 10% to 30%
- Fixed some minor typo```Tempted to try out 1 TC Frontline gun Sprinters
supple sonnetBOT
I can say that most of the time just a frontline is fine for 120's, you do struggle agesnt clippersat the edge of detection range but a TC is not going to help much in that case
glad aurora
Yeah, if you want a gun sprinter, you want the AE.
quiet quiver
Mmm, I guess yeah
supple sonnetBOT
the big problem that frontline sprinters still have is that shuttles can still get relativaly close before they get spoted, and less not being able to hit them once spoted.
wet root
ARR Sprompter?
quiet quiver
Hurts TQ
mint sinew
Could sprinkle one in a gun sprinter group if you wanted that detection edge
night fable
It's Friday, and that means it's time for more Friday Night NEBULOUS: Fleet Command on my Twitch channel below!
https://www.twitch.tv/docvivileandra <@&942093958551588904>
runic torrent
<@&942093958551588904> boat night channels open o/
quiet quiver
Huzzah
wet root
Probably no boats for me tonight, not really feeling the Nebs
oak shell
I'm out of town so no boats for me :(
wary flame
I would love to boat but I just finished six long night shifts in a row and am completely wiped, sorry
next time
quiet quiver
Did some testing in lieu of boat night. Weave containers vs a single defender on a Raines, 10 missiles per target
Test ended early b/c the 10th target was disabled by reactor blooms
All missiles in the test had 10 engines 4 warhead and ~20km range
@wicked mirage The test data
I also noticed swingy test results, two salvos had 10 hardkilled (IIRC, from 1.3g and 2.8g)
Oh also 2.2g should be discarded, the missiles got jammed out by a reactor bloom
If I repeat tests, gonna have more hardened targets and also only do 1 salvo of each per CLN
wary flame
interesting, I might want to try some triple seeker kill containers for capvettes
glad aurora
Did some testing in lieu of boat night. Weave containers vs a single defender on...
Did these have anything in the third slot or nah?
quiet quiver
Empty third slot
quiet quiver
The CMDval specifically so I could pick out individual targets out of the clump of ten
Also tho weave can get through, for 40 pts/salvo of ACT/[ARAD] I think you're probably better off with cork
wicked mirage
Interesting, it looks like the less maneuverable containers hit more?
Is it because they're faster?
quiet quiver
Speed matters, yeah
wicked mirage
Neat~
glad aurora
Significantly closes the time for the Defender to engage
quiet quiver
I'll probably test cork later but it takes a while to do a full go through. My testing methodology has sped up compared to last time I tried tho
wary flame
While testing 6 channel CMD cluster decoy strikes for wounded capital ships I discovered that speed was absolutely vital there too, not surprised it transfers over
does mean they basically can't turn
runic torrent
next boat night is <t:1719082800:F> <t:1719082800:R>
runic torrent
next boat night is <t:1719082800:F> <t:1719082800:R>
runic torrent
o..o
mint sinew
Good to see transparency as always
A super valid call to make, especially now there has been active testing
quiet quiver
I do think the video should be watched, but for those unable to, a TLDR:
||Conquest development is being put on hold for now. First reason is it's actually built up an estimated 6-12 months of tech debt, release would not be soon if it continued. Second is that Mazer is facing a cursed game design problem between the grand scale of conquest and the tightly-tuned skirmish gameplay, and conquest was accumulating increasing numbers of campaign-level features in attempts to fix it.
Development is shifting back to skirmish features, including some that were to bundled with the conquest release, and the next major update will be carriers. After that will be back to a tighter-designed conquest||
wet root
I very much appreciate the summary, since I can't watch rn!
quiet quiver
Added just a little more to para 1
runic torrent
adding to alice's summary:
||mazer still wants to set up a metagame that strings skirmishes together, and can reuse components from current conquest programming, it's just gonna have to be different cause he wants the skirmish games to be more balanced than the ones generated by current conquest mode.||
it's not all bad
wet root
||I'm definitely not surprised, conquest is ambitious. And Carriers sooner is exciting!||
rain mica
Oh thank goodness
quiet quiver
Yeah, it's technically bad news but not all bad
noble zodiac
(wait should i spoilermark the ||carriers|| part too i have a little fangirling to do)
rain mica
You fellas are taking this far better than the main discord’s general
noble zodiac
YEAH FR
supple sonnetBOT
There is a resion why Mazer started to do colective punishment
noble zodiac
main discord is like
video literally says ||conquest is still happening||
"||conquest isnt happening||"
rain mica
EXACTLY
and the thing is it even ||confirms carriers are next||
Which uh, hell yeah, I was already doing a Homeworld faction
noble zodiac
There is a resion why Mazer started to do colective punishment
doesnt make it right tho.
(yes im still pissed at him about that, as based as this is)
rain mica
…idea
noble zodiac
Which uh, hell yeah, I was already doing a Homeworld faction
yeah !!!!
rain mica
Barbarossa “fighter” craft
rain mica
Honestly given 3D models we could just do lancer ships in general
noble zodiac
true
... wait shit that's like
a genuinely good idea
what the fuck how has nobody thought of this before
rain mica
Honestly after the kadeshi, screw it, lancer “fighters”, and then ships
glad aurora
Lancer ships are >>>>>>>>>>>> than Neb powerlevel
noble zodiac
yeah but you can just like
scale them down
like almost all the "translation of another setting" mods tend to do
ALSO
this means BSG mods become plausible
glad aurora
You really can't.
supple sonnetBOT
Honestaly at the scale and and power level of lancer ships it would just be the ships in name only or like to large to even fit in most maps
wet root
I mean, you can still use the aesthetics and some of the gameplay mechanics
quiet quiver
If you can put Front Mission wanzers in a Starsector mod, you can put Lancer ships in Nebulous
noble zodiac
just make it like OBL
quiet quiver
Actually how did the vanilla vs OBL skirmishes go during that one fight night?
glad aurora
poorly, given long-range beams
one of the factions is really just "better ANS"
the reason I heavily disagree with any attempted implementation of Lancer ships into Neb isn't just for aesthetics, it's that it completely ruins the theme of Lancer ships being what they are - it's an aesthetic paintjob and a new set of slots that ignores the existence of NHPs and legionspace as well as the horrifying power of spinal weaponry
supple sonnetBOT
right but how would you make any of the spinal wepions feel right with out them being broken or feeling bad for being on the wrong end of. like a tac lance is a long ranged wepion that can core most ships it's fierd at. well that's just old rails. like it's damage range VS a fresh NPC capital is intant kill on hit to 4/7ths of the tankyist ships helth. and on the lighter end it's still 2/3rds of the lightest NPC's capital ships helth on a miss
rain mica
Oh hey you could totally do a custom crit for NHP modules
supple sonnetBOT
And like even if you normalise things so that an Ono is roughly comparable to an Ocello, you still have things like SCKVs wich is will make folks rage quit and Mald if they are at all worth bringing. even more so then curent missles do when they hit
glad aurora
me when speartip anti-capital torpedo
supple sonnetBOT
Like battlegroup is not a PvP game and the amount of capital ships you cn bring is much higher
supple sonnetBOT
a solomon is roughly the same size as a (small) destroyer
honestly, it might be interesting? but we agree that it'd be hard to make it feel balanced while also making it feel lore accurate
rigid bison
Frankly I’m not surprised that ||Conquest is getting a major rework. The gamemode looked to be increasingly complex and hard to actually run, so some redesign would be nice||
tulip vault
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evdY2V8WVk0
Mmm, well, I won’t lie that Im disappointed but it does make sense
I really wish sometimes that the nebulous community as it is didn’t have as much of mazer’s ear as it seems to, not that this has too much to do with it but
tulip vault
main discord is like
> video literally says ||conquest is still happening||
> "|...
I dunno, making anything is complex and hearing that this is the overall response is real indicative of why I’ve largely fallen off playing nebulous
I hope ||carriers|| work out well though, that sounds very cool
tulip vault
450?
wary flame
two 250, one with six plasma turrets, two T30s and no radar
then 100mm where it'll fit
tulip vault
Ah a throngler variant
Yeah those very good
I found it quite vulnerable to your throngler getting picked off but going hard on 250 probably helps with that
I love the throngler very much, especially since you can slap some 250 on top to get the angling done for you
wary flame
I need to actually switch it to that so it can break DT
only six turrets is pain but it seems to mostly do the job
and being able to detach a 250LN to zoom off and solve any kind of minor cap problem has proven useful
oak shell
How do you have power for 6 turrets?
noble zodiac
I dunno, making anything is complex and hearing that this is the overall respons...
eh, the conversation took a much more reasonable (optimistic) turn after that, the doomerposting didnt last long