Nebulous: Fleet Command

[tulip vault]

why that one is called that only the spirits of my file manager know

[quiet quiver]

A mystery for the ages

[tulip vault]

truly

[tulip vault]

<@&942093958551588904> anyone feel like a boat?

[eager cedar]

Typically I tend not to feel like a boat

[noble zodiac]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/825471121888378900.gif?size=128&quality=lossless

[supple sonnet]

we can be on in ~10, just need to get laundry started

[hidden echo]

I'd be amenable for another, if you'd like.

[quiet quiver]

Yeah I'm down

[tulip vault]

I'll be on when syl is

[wicked mirage]

Yeah!

[hidden echo]

Sorry to disappoint ya’ll but

Australian internet

It’s committed to disappointing me at the worst possible moments

Occasionally, and for what seems to be conceivably no reason at all it’ll just disconnect and reconnect me from the network for a period of oh say an hour

So I’m bowing out to spare ya’ll the annoyance, because it’ll get awful pretty shortly. Sorry!

I’m honestly surprised it kept up for that Dune game.

I’m using my phone for this atm

[junior heron]

Hello Spacers!

Happy April Fools Day. Usually I use this day to post some humorous critique on the current state of the games industry, but this year we are just too busy with Conquest development to put anything together. It's coming along great though, so instead of a prank here is a screenshot from Conquest, provided with no further context, so you can speculate about it for my entertainment:

April Fool's day post from Mazer

from the main nebcord

[glad aurora]

Oh hey, OSP logi ship hull

Neat.

[tulip vault]

that's just a normal bulker you can't fool me

[junior heron]

pretty sure that's just a normal bulker

[tulip vault]

if I really squint it might look like a different conning tower

but I think it's just a bulker

[wicked mirage]

Hey guys, wanna give OBL a try?

[glad aurora]

OBL?

[noble zodiac]

Operation Burning Lance

issa total conversion (altho not really because the normal factions still exist) mod thats allegedly pretty balanced but Very different in meta and stuff

i probably would i just have to brush my teeth and finish 1 other thing and then i can exist

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Axford Shipkiller USE-EOEACT' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

The Fool : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun Missile PD Sensor]
The Star : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [PD Beam Sensor]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-H-338 None : CRUISE - PSV(EO)/ACT(RADAR) - HEKP [49pts]
SGM-H-339 None : CRUISE - PSV(EO)/ACT(RADAR) - HEKP [51pts]

[quiet quiver]

Actually yeah I can see it, not the lack of guns but the other shadows on the hull don't really match the bulker

[glad aurora]

how burning is this lance

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Ssss' is composed of 1 ship which costs 2437 points:

Moyra D. Rosena : Guardian Cruiser []
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SH-400 Maelstrom : CRUISE - CMD/ACT(RADAR) - HEKP [52pts]

Mods required:

• https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3002083355

[mint sinew]

That's definitely a stock bulker with the wings. It's the hull model I use for triple threats

[wicked mirage]

Amazing xD

Actually this is pretty cool!

[glad aurora]

I have no idea what points value these things are balanced at, so

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[rigid bison]

The OBL servers run 3ks, at least as far as I remember

[wet root]

I'm wondering if this is some sort of intel mechanic, squinting at low-res images to try to determine if they're civilian traffic vs armed bulkers

[glad aurora]

observe: S3H beam axford (la creatura??????????????????)

[wet root]

(Good luck telling if they have MLS)

[rigid bison]

My idea is that if one counterbatteries the S2/3/4H yub fleets and rail long range beam barges with a TC+not!Spyglass rail long range beam DD, it opens up a 450 boat to do what it wants.

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Margan Gun Capital+Beam Destroyer+Corvettes' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

Don't Unto Others : Transcendence Battleship []
        Plowshare : Oblivion Destroyer []
         Sprinter : Omen Corvette []
         Shuttler : Omen Corvette []

Mods required:

• https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3002083355

[rigid bison]

(omens are just there to ensure cap advantage, they're very good at ACAP-ing and not much else)

[quiet quiver]

Imagining fucking up because it’s a broadside liner and the intel pic is taken of the off side

[noble zodiac]

OSP capulous build: acquired

[wary flame]

just managed to win an ANS cap game against a gold stack despite torpedoing my own beam DD while doing it

not my finest moment

my torpvettes are razor's-edge optimised, everything else not so much

[tulip vault]

<@&942093958551588904> anyone feel like a pub in the near future

[dense fractal]

sure im down

when are you thinking?

[tulip vault]

I'd like to see if we get more people, I've had some really unfun experience with pub lobby randoms recently

it is however the middle of the day for a lot of people so I'd be a little surprised

[glad aurora]

I can probably pub in 30m or so, I'm just finishing lunch

[tulip vault]

if we only have 3 I think I'm going to ensconce myself in something else, sorry

just do not feel like interacting with the neb community this day

[glad aurora]

Fair.

[wary flame]

I can pile in, I just need to send an email

[dense fractal]

sure just ping me when but if its after two to three hours i wont have the opportunity anymore because then i have to sleep.

[noble zodiac]

ayo chat am i cookin or what

aurora fucks up rocket shuttles, but more importantly it can snap-battleshort to stop MMT S2s and it's immune to terminals
S3Hs should punch through MMT kit designed for torpshuttles
blanket helps with visibility and covering the S3Hs when not actively under S2 fire
Mk62 to finish off things that the S3Hs cripple

[wet root]

Hardened Skin on the S3H I'm guessing?

That looks impolite

(Also expensive, but probably worth)

[noble zodiac]

not yet but now that you mention it...

the EO is there because nobody brings fucking dazzlers on their MMTs

[wet root]

Yeah, EO is underused

[glad aurora]

If it's an actual MMT, it doesn't have the mount space for a dazzler

[noble zodiac]

exactly

[noble zodiac]

yeah

probably-final version is 600pts

now to find out if this lil fucker will turn off the CLS to power the ARR i gave it...

[mint sinew]

It shouldn't right? Weapons beat sensor support modules

[wary flame]

HS is an excellent investment here, I have something broadly similar in prototype

my MMTs can kill this if they reach 6.5km, but you have the range advantage

[wet root]

How many S2s/S3s can a single Aurora take down before it burns itself out?

[noble zodiac]

it can semi-reliably stop 4 S2s without even touching the battleshort

only needs like a second of battleshort to finish the job

S3s are a tougher proposition but afaik MMTs don't really use those

[mint sinew]

Per the wiki you get at least 16s of uptime half the time. That's about 640 damage, exactly enough for 4 torps

[wet root]

Does that include the base burst duration (before it starts eating bshort damage)?

[quiet quiver]

Yeah IIRC the wiki includes that

[mint sinew]

Yeah. In practice it will be a little lower than 50% odds with tracking time

[wet root]

That might actually help a bit? Gives it a moment to recharge between torps

[mint sinew]

True, I wrongly assumed bshort would still damage while swapping targets, but it doesn't for beams

A little over 50% of beating 4x torps in a damage race then. Not sure you always have the required 16s within 4k vs torps

What's the average torp speed these days anyway?

[glad aurora]

Near max maneuverability, so 175 to 186 or so

[noble zodiac]

fleetulous: done command

[lime jungle]

Fleet '3k - The Invincible Girl (Mk 1)' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

              Pyrrha Nikos : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun PD Sensor]
                      Milo : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Gun EWar PD]
                     Akouo : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Gun EWar PD]
              Forever Fall : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
Do You Believe In Destiny? : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 4 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-10 Sliver of Hope : DIRECT - HOJ(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
  SGM-135 Egg Cracker : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [4pts]
 SGM-177 Eyes of Fire : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [2pts]
     SGM-H-300 Atlatl : DIRECT - PSV(EO)/ARAD(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [30pts]

[noble zodiac]

might tweak the names around some

[glad aurora]

The forbidden max rebound Vauxhall...

[mint sinew]

FYI, I'm stealing that aurora corvette design

[noble zodiac]

i mean
it makes sense i think??????
because my primary threat is like, an MMT sneaking into the backline, it avoids tainers by not being seen and being fast as fuck and having softkill

[mint sinew]

The risk would be sneaky torp tugs and I guess that's just a meta call to make

[noble zodiac]

that's a point actually

time for some Funky Bullshit (putting defenders on one side and rebounds on the other and then rolling based on the threat)

actually no that probably wont work

because if i see a tug idk if its torps or not

tbf, torp tugs probably have to close the distance, which means i can bonk them with RPF

[wet root]

Also a random backpack container might cause you issues? But they probably won't intentionally target a Vaux usually

[wet root]

You could do kitty-corners, I think you get full coverage or close to it from each

And that helps against mines and rockets too

[noble zodiac]

ooh good point

yea i'll do that i think

[mint sinew]

I do love throwing backpack containers at vauxen. I'm doing my part to keep the boat night meta respectful of cheap container strikes

[noble zodiac]

rail axford spotted in the wild

oh my gods this CLN doesnt have any prog busses

💀

[quiet quiver]

4 channels is all you need, right?

[noble zodiac]

ok correction it has

one

[mint sinew]

Fast boot spammer?

[wicked mirage]

The RNG giveth

And the RNG taketh away

[quiet quiver]

Never saw this happen on HE before

167% accuracy

[wet root]

Usually that only happens with high-pen weapons

How much did you plasma them?

[quiet quiver]

A bunch but not like 100 HE has a lot of pen depth

I was shooting at keystones and an axford

[mint sinew]

Does this count hitting chaff? I wonder if you were shooting through a bunch of chaff and it counted as hits

[quiet quiver]

I don't think I was but might've

Is chaff even hitabble by shells?

[noble zodiac]

not sure

i know Active Decoys are though

[wary flame]

people are developing callouts for more maps now

I was just playing a Nyx match and was told "two plasma liners on Singapore"

a) where the hell is Singapore and b) why on earth did you name it Singapore

(it's apparently the rock above A on the right from the ANS side, which usually has OSP fleets on it peeking across a fairly narrow strait to the rock on the left)

I look forward to the Tumbleweed callout guide that will inevitably be more convoluted than your typical CS:GO map

[noble zodiac]

fascinating

[arctic magnet]

oh, I hate that

[quiet quiver]

Tumbleweed callouts gonna be on specific holes instead of specific rocks

[dense fractal]

<@&942093958551588904> tommorow (in 16 to 20 hours) anyone wanna play with me?

[wet root]

That's right in the middle of the night for me, alas

[dense fractal]

Ah the trouble of being european

Anyone else atleast?

[quiet quiver]

You might be out of luck at that hour

Unless the ANZ players are interested, so I guess ask again when they're awake?

And if you can do Euro afternoon/evening you can at least line that up with American morning/afternoon

[tulip vault]

I mean 20 hours from then is like, 6 am my time, and I am awake, but I need to actually do things tomorrow so sadly no boats at that hour

[quiet quiver]

Also TIL that disconnect fleet transfers favor players with fewer ships, which is cool unless you run a surrender CL or CLN and are busy plotting cruise paths

[dense fractal]

like i can do later (i think) i am in UTC+1 (norway)

[wary flame]

<@&942093958551588904> neb in 10?

[tulip vault]

if my dota game finishes sure

big if on that though

[rigid bison]

I might be able to boat in 20-30 mins

[wicked mirage]

Yarrrr

[tulip vault]

okay yeah I've been freed from dota hell (I was pos1 shadow shaman)

I will boat

[wicked mirage]

Bote!

[wary flame]

....I like pos 1 shadow shaman

there in a second

[wicked mirage]

I'll be on in about 10 mins, I just need to do a quick bit of adulting real quick.

[glad aurora]

I shall be around for one (1) boat

[tulip vault]

misc what you don't understand is that I was alone in lane, and our mid tidehunter ran under the tower 30 seconds before the match started

[wary flame]

Ok, yeah, that's pretty bad

I prefer mid Shadow Shaman because even if you fail to gank particularly well you can snake a tower early and make safelane comfy

[wicked mirage]

Pos1? Isn't that just top lane?

[wary flame]

or at least you used to be able to, no idea what it's like now they made the map hueg

[tulip vault]

I mean, it's top lane carry

which shadow shaman, is not, generally

[wicked mirage]

Ah, I see

[tulip vault]

like honestly it was less horrid than I expected, but that was helped by the two people top disappearing for 90% of the laning phase for no apparent reason

[wary flame]

he quite likes getting a bucketload of XP early because once he hits 6 and gets hold of a shard he becomes a demolition machine, but that's why I prefer mid so you can have someone else pick up your inability to right click

[dense fractal]

<@&942093958551588904> ANYONE DOWN IN AN HOUR?

sorry caps

[olive blade]

sure I can play one maybe

might be slightly late but I'll see

[dense fractal]

we can now if you want?

[olive blade]

nah I mean I might be a little late

[eternal bramble]

I can also come

[dense fractal]

yey

[olive blade]

ok I'm around

I'll just chill in ssc until people are around

[olive blade]

@eternal bramble @dense fractal yo

[dense fractal]

im ready

[eternal bramble]

I am summoned

[glad aurora]

DD BSHORT NERFED TO 40%

LONG HAUL NERF

YARD BUFF

SUNDRIVE BUFF

VALIDATOR MEMORY FOR SEEKERS

Increased P11 Pavise PDT cost to 20 (was 15).```

oh my god, what are these railgun changes

Increased Mk81 railgun autoloader capacity to 5 (was 1), recycle time to 15 seconds (was 0), reload time to 60 seconds (was 30), point cost to 150 (was 50), and power requirement to 1750 kW (was 1500).

[bitter furnace]

this patch is overall pretty bussin'

(except for the railgun changes, which IMO are highly problematic)

but everything else is fantastic

[glad aurora]

Yeah, these railgun changes are... certainly something

Capital turrets? Great, for if I ever want to play my double gigacringed BB setup

The DDs? Now that I've done the MNs, these are going to be... interesting to take to the range

oh, wait, I was misreading that

... I'm sorry, they gave capital turrets autoloaders?!

[tulip vault]

oh is this a main branch patch?

or testing changes

[glad aurora]

testbranch

[tulip vault]

would you mind copying them in full to here? I avoid the neb server when I can

[glad aurora]

Patch Notes - 0.3.1.21:240405-1804

+PUBLIC TEST BRANCH+

Changes/Features:

• Reduced TE45 Mass Driver DR to 30 (was 40).
• Increased Mk81 Railgun turret depression limit to -5 degrees (was -3) and traverse rate to 6 deg/sec (was 3).
• Reduce 400mm Plasma Ampoule flight time to 12 seconds (was 14) for a new max range of 7,200m.
• Increased velocity of 450mm AP and HE shells to 800m/s (was 750) and decreased flight time to 14.05 seconds (was 15).
• 100mm Grapeshot can no longer cause catastrophic events.
• Reduced Keystone destroyer continuousweapon-overheatdamageprob:beam intrinsic hull modifier to -40% (was -75%).
• Added visual effects for beams in the tactical view.
• Increased volume and falloff curve for beam weapon sound effects.
• Removed power requirement from Reinforced Magazine
• Added a 1x compounding cost multiplier to Auxiliary Steering
• Command components that don't provide full control (e.g. Aux Steering) will no longer suppress the "No CIC" warning in the fleet editor.
• Removed hull-linearmotor modifier from Prowler drive.
• Increased Sundrive HP to 200 (was 100) and decreased point cost to 20 (was 30).
• Reduced CHI-777 Yard Drive hull-maxspeed modifier to -7.5% (was -10%) and increased hull-linearmotor modifier to 15% (was 10%).
• Added +30% hull-linearmotor modifier to CHI-7700 Yard Drive.
• Removed CHI-9100 Long Haul drive's hull-linearmotor modifier (was +20%), added -10% hull-angularmotor modifier, and reduced hull-flankdamageprob modifier to 25% (was 50%).
• Reduced hull linear motor force on Bulker and Container Line Ships to 3200 (was 4000).
• Increased Bulker and Container Line Ship braking thruster power to 100% (was 80%) and lateral thruster power to 40% (was 30%).
• Increased Cargo Feeder hull linear motor force to 700 (was 500).
• Added +5% hull-component-max-repair and +10% powerplant-prodefficiency instrinsic hull modifiers to the Ocello.
• Increased fragment count for 600mm Bomb Shell to 15 per target (was 10).

• Increased damage ray count for 600mm HE-SH Shell to 8 (was 5), increased armor penetration to 85 (was 75), and disabled overpenetration.
• Decreased chaff cloud signature size by about 60%, to be about the size of an Solomon from the side.
• Increased Mk20 Defender PDT cost to 25 points (was 20).
• Increased P11 Pavise PDT cost to 20 (was 15).
• Added Validator Memory configuration option to missile avionics. Missiles with memory enabled will remember that their current target has been validated even if the validation conditions are no longer present.
• Increased Rapid DC Locker HP to 100 (was 70).
• Increase Small DC Locker HP to 150 (was 100) and reduced cost to 20 (was 30).
• Increased Large DC Locker HP to 200 (was 150).
• Increased Reinforced DC Locker HP to 250 (was 200).
• Reduced storage volume of all mine types to 15m^3 (was 30).
• Removed power requirement from Citadel Magazine.
• Decreased programming time for decoy containers to 2 seconds (was 20).
• Hovering over enemy decoy containers will now provide a false intel report.
• Decreased point cost of Weave terminal maneuvers in missiles to 1 point (was 2).
• Increased Mk81 railgun autoloader capacity to 5 (was 1), recycle time to 15 seconds (was 0), reload time to 60 seconds (was 30), point cost to 150 (was 50), and power requirement to 1750 kW (was 1500).
• Increased HP for MLS-2, MLS-3, and ML-9 launchers to 200 (was 100).
• Updated fluff blocks for some components and hulls.

Bug Fixes:

• Fixed hot-launched missiles fired from the same VLS following different paths depending on the orientation of the cell.
• Fixed missiles with cruise guidance and no seeker never igniting their engine when fired on a track.
• Fixed new player settings not defaulting to DCTRN for PDMSL salvo size.
• Fixed bot skirmish players not having PDMSL salvo size set to DCTRN.
• Fixed missiles which share a VLS with defensive decoys incrementing the battle report "Expended" counter for the last decoy type that was fired.
• Fixed buffer overflow in Steam network transport causing some disconnects.

[quiet quiver]

Bug Fixes:

• Fixed hot-launched missiles fired from the same VLS following different paths depending on the orientation of the cell.
• Fixed missiles with cruise guidance and no seeker never igniting their engine when fired on a track.
• Fixed new player settings not defaulting to DCTRN for PDMSL salvo size.
• Fixed bot skirmish players not having PDMSL salvo size set to DCTRN.
• Fixed missiles which share a VLS with defensive decoys incrementing the battle report "Expended" counter for the last decoy type that was fired.
• Fixed buffer overflow in Steam network transport causing some disconnects.

[tulip vault]

plasma speed buff 🙏

oh that's a crazy grape nerf

good, honestly

this seems overall very reasonable

I love the decoy container change, that's so rad

[quiet quiver]

I'm pretty sure it's the same speed, just lost distance/lifetime

[tulip vault]

I don't understand what the mk81 does now but something had to happen

[wary flame]

minebros we are even more back than we previously were, which was pretty back

[tulip vault]

oh true

honestly this just means I can't waste plasma lol

don't hate it

beams in tac view!!!

[oak shell]

600mm buff 👀

[glad aurora]

The Mk81 now has a five-shot autoloader (15s between shots, after all shots are expended, 60s reload)

[wary flame]

time to go rework all my capfleets

[glad aurora]

(and QoL making it so it isn't awful to actually shoot)

[wary flame]

beefy MLS is pretty huge

[tulip vault]

I mean yeah but is that actually any quicker than it currently is (I genuinely don't know I've never once looked at the mk81)

also why is it now a billion points

[glad aurora]

The 600mm buff is insane - first thing I did was test C90 HESH 4AE MNs against an Axford at 45 degrees, it just shredded it

[tulip vault]

oh yeah 600mm buff is rad

[quiet quiver]

I forget if the last shot in an autoloader still needs to cycle before reloading

[glad aurora]

Yeah. Current is a 30s reload. This is a bit less than double the DPS.

[tulip vault]

no overpen is so cool

[tulip vault]

ah, wonderful

the rail bb will return

[glad aurora]

Sadly, the rail BB cannot return

150pts per turret means I can't gigacringe two rail BBs in anymore

That said, I could do 1 rail BB 1 rail axford

[quiet quiver]

I think w/o buffs it goes from 2 RPM to 2.2 RPM

But also check RPM/point vs railstones, I suspect max RPM rail array might be 1 railford 4 railstones

[glad aurora]

That is exactly what I'm making now

[quiet quiver]

Or... 2 railfords 1 railstone?

[glad aurora]

I already had a 3 railstone + 1 gunford fleet, so it shouldn't be too hard to convert it

that said, if I just change out ammo + turrets, this is just under 300pts over

there's no way you can fit 4 railstones in

[quiet quiver]

You mean there's not 300 pts of DC you can cut?

[wary flame]

OSP capfleet has even more points for mines than it already did

ANS capfleet needs to squeeze a bit to fit new defenders but it'll probably be fine

[quiet quiver]

Yeah, paying for minelayer hulls is a big cost that just got cut in half

[glad aurora]

Cutting all DC except a rapid gets me down to 3101pts

[quiet quiver]

Yeah fair

[glad aurora]

Might end up at 2 railstone + rail axford + lockvette

going to give that a shot

[quiet quiver]

Hmm, what's your RPM on just the railford?

[glad aurora]

One sec, setting up buff modules

right now it's in superradar config, so I've got to swap out for ereg+rcc

[quiet quiver]

Also RN I wanna see how EACT/[ARAD] containers perform with val mem, jammerless softkill in theory means having to turn off multiple radars for about 20 seconds

[oak shell]

Shall we do boat night on test branch, then? I would like to test the new 600mm

[quiet quiver]

(250 m/s for 5000 m)

[glad aurora]

100%

[bitter furnace]

2 -> 2.5 RPM unbuffed, so it would be a sidearm buff, except it's now triple the cost

[bitter furnace]

railfords got kind of fucked over I'm gonna be honest

[quiet quiver]

Ah so the 5th shot doesn't need cycle, okay

[wary flame]

I would advise people to quickly go through and do points adjustments on their most played fleets right now

[oak shell]

ML-9? What is that

[wary flame]

before you start testing like mad

just so you have the options open still

[bitter furnace]

both the railford and railomon lost rail output efficiency, so the railstone is even more ontop of the world than it was for sustained railgunnery

but the capitals now have burst fire, which gives them a situational niche

[quiet quiver]

ML-9 is the minelayer

[glad aurora]

way I'm seeing it is, I can bring a full PD, full DC axford to sit in my rail array now and hopefully still get decent RPM out of it

Mm. "Decent" is doubtful. 36.33 RPM.

[wary flame]

I am testing in VC if anyone wants to join the party

[tulip vault]

I think they haven't actually lost a ton of output it's now just nutzo expensive for slightly less output overall

I'm confused by this change

[noble zodiac]

do recall that RCCs buff them now
and harder than EREGs for a while, too

[quiet quiver]

Ah, valmem is 1pt

[glad aurora]

I'm aware, the setup is 3x RCC + 4 sereg

[bitter furnace]

Yeah that’s what I mean. Rail output efficiency is measured in points-per-RPM, so since the builds got more expensive the efficiency went down

With super skeletal builds, Railstones are 41 ppRPM, on main both Railfords and Railomons are 52 ppRPM. Now on test, Railfords are 69 and Railomons are 55. That’s why I don’t like this change’s specific values, even if the burst fire is cool. Railomons have so many advantages already, they shouldn’t get such a huge efficiency lead

[rigid bison]

Maybe the Keystone hull should get some rail reload buffs

[bitter furnace]

Eh, they’re fine, still more efficient than the capitals which is good, if that wasn’t the case I’d be rioting right now. The problem is the mismatch between Ax and Sol

[rigid bison]

How expensive?

[oak shell]

300

[bitter furnace]

What have we done, Misc’s Mine Mania is only intensifying

[glad aurora]

47.02 RPM

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Test' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

      Premeditated Act : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Rail PD]
   Malice Aforethought : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
   Malice Afterthought : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
Malice Current-thought : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]

[bitter furnace]

Six railstones would have superior sustained RPM, you take capitals for the burst now

[glad aurora]

Oh, I'm aware. I have a fleet that's six railstones + defender/intel/lock box.

I'm curious to see whether actually having restores+armor and the burst makes up for losing, well, 20rpm.

[bitter furnace]

Mayhaps

Depends on how you use them I guess

[wary flame]

I'll be honest I am not counting on this mine change sticking around

because you can do this

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'GIga Mine Shuttle Caps' is composed of 10 ships that cost 3000 points:

      This : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Rocket Missile PD]
       War : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Rocket Missile PD]
        So : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Rocket Missile PD]
       And : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Rocket Missile PD]
      Hell : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Rocket Missile PD]
       Cap : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Rocket Missile PD]
        Is : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Rocket Missile PD]
Absolutely : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Rocket Missile PD]
Completely : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Rocket Missile PD]
   Cringed : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Rocket Missile PD]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
        SGM-1 Currency Conversion : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]

[wary flame]

names supplied by mathblob

as you might expect

[glad aurora]

okay, no, the burst fire rails are incredibly good

going to test this again with exact timing

[rigid bison]

My concern is that a rail BB hiding in the skybox will be very hard to kill given the state of OSP yub and MDs

[oak shell]

A rail BB hiding in the skybox is welcome to stay there and lose to capping

[glad aurora]

After exactly one minute of fire, standard plas/100 liner

Burst rails are very scary

[glad aurora]

one minute of fire from maxbuffed rail BB, same target as previous - the rail BB is not cringed, you could probably cringe its DC + PD and fit a single DD in instead of the lockvette, but I don't think that's an actually good idea in the BB case

[lime jungle]

SGT-300 Spinjitzu Cringemaster is a size 3 missile that costs 12 points.

[wet root]

Some wild changes in there

Bulkers should be able to flank backwards, they have full-power thrusters on the front now if I'm reading right

Also Ocello buffs :D

Big fan of the small DC change, more points-efficient but takes more compartments is a nice niche

Might have to, gasp, start bringing more than 0 restores

Validator memory is also nice, I wonder if that works like the old seekers where it will lock onto a target it validates even if other valid targets appear

[quiet quiver]

waits for Lark to get to the end

[wet root]

How does this change railcello rpmppt, I wonder

[wet root]

Already read through it all once lol, just hadn't had time to respond then

[quiet quiver]

With buff modules, sustained RPM is worse, frontloaded RPM is better

Even with going 1000 -> 1300 for a build

[glad aurora]

since I mentioned the Creatures in VC, here's the Creatures

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Abominable Devices Test' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

Pyroclast : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun Plasma PD]
   Deimos : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [EWar Sensor PD]
   Phobos : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [EWar Sensor PD]
     Eris : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [EWar Gun PD]
   Spatha : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Ewar Missile Gun PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
       SGM-113 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGT-351 Ascalon Bronze : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [12pts]

[quiet quiver]

Without modules I think even sustained RPMppt is higher

[wet root]

I was more wondering about the expensive 1600-1900pt ones

But IDK if they can fit enough buff mods

[glad aurora]

all the guys move around as one blob, the torptug just goes around doing torptug things

[quiet quiver]

Well the more expensive it was already, the smaller the impact of the point bump

But sustained RPM cannot hit what it is on live

[wet root]

Alas, was hoping the power hullmod would make the difference

Can't complain though, Ocellos are eating good regardless

Wonder if I can fit a Sarissa plus a Frontline on a Sprinter, make a minesweeper device

[quiet quiver]

I remember frontline + blanket sprinter exists

[glad aurora]

More I test C90s, more wild they seem

[bitter furnace]

Well the LN’s base linear thrust got nerfed, so in practice the frontal thrust mult buff just means that frontal thrust is unchanged

[glad aurora]

They're best against an Axford, but I'm putting them against 45* angled Solomon right now, and I just watched one shot take out a VLS

Shame I can't see DC boards

[glad aurora]

Half load from two 4AE MNs, so about 5 minutes 30 of sustained fire onto the aforementioned angled Solomon

Distinctly unhappy camper, though very repairable

that said, that's 2 4AE MNs, or "a 1000pt fleet element"

[quiet quiver]

Side thrust got even worse again tho, 1600 down to 1280

[glad aurora]

my money is on yard being the better drive now

[quiet quiver]

Wait no, I screwed up math

Slightly better

1200 to 1280

[wet root]

Oop, good point

[wet root]

Speed is really strong

[mint sinew]

Less glass sundrive will make the big yard/sundrive builds very interesting to test again

[glad aurora]

My 2x sundrive big raider Ocello is very happy with all these changes

[wet root]

They do still have no DT, but at least they won't die to a single unlucky 450 shell

[glad aurora]

which reminds me I need to trim points on that build because of Pavise update price, but still

[mint sinew]

Yeah, I likely won't actually use them much as have a real reactor is important anyway, but worth testing

[wet root]

The point cost is also just nice

Suntugs are very happy this patch

[mint sinew]

I know they only got buffed indirectly, but looking at these patch notes I wonder how torp bulkers will be doing in this environment. Less defenders, tougher components across the board and less aux spam on their primary targets

[wet root]

(And shuttles are terrifying)

[wet root]

The MLS HP buff is huge for them

One of their big weaknesses is even a light smattering of fire can really ruin their offensive capabilities

[oak shell]

Is the 600mm cannon supposed to be install-able in a bulker?

[junior heron]

I don't think so

is it?

[mint sinew]

It shouldn't be, it was specifically sized to only fit in the monitor spinal

[oak shell]

huh, I missed the memo on that
No 600mm bulker broadside 😔

[wet root]

It might fit in a Keystone

[night fable]

<@&942093958551588904> It's Friday, and that means it's time for Friday Night Fleet Command! I'm hosting open multiplayer lobbies of NEBULOUS: Fleet Command on my Twitch channel below! It's free for anyone to join, so bring your fleets!
https://www.twitch.tv/docvivileandra

[quiet quiver]

Nope, Keystone spinal is 4x12x4, Bulker broadsides are 6x10x6, Feeder spinal (and C90) is 6x12x6

A C56 (4x6x4) or an MD (4x10x4) fits in a keystone tho

[wary flame]

interesting observation: bulk freighter decoy programs in two seconds and has a bigger signature than chaff

bring a few on container tracks to throw at incoming

also, basic thunderheads are mean on ANS now

[olive blade]

yeah basic rad seekers being good is interesting

maybe the stairs are back baby

[wary flame]

the stairs may be back

I'm trying it out on CLN too

[mint sinew]

Rapid launch defensive decoys will be really nice. The SSJ containers already added a lot of softkill power to broadside bulkets

Also, dropping 18sec off the travel time of clipper decoys heading to neutral points will help sell that bait better and provide softkill for really shuttles

[wet root]

Still slower than a flanking shuttle unfortunately

But less so

Especially since I think they accelerate faster

Interestingly, a shuttle decoy is more cost-efficient than an active decoy, kind of

(The container stack launcher only holding 2 means they're actually about 8.5 points per)

[mint sinew]

That's only true for sundrive shuttles now right? In the OSP patch they got buffed up to ~50m/s to match stock drive shuttles

[wet root]

Ohh right forgot about that

Good call

[mint sinew]

I assume test branch for boat night?

[wet root]

I'm definitely up for some Testulous

[junior heron]

<@&942093958551588904> hey all, with the test branch out I figure I'd ask whether everyone wants to play test or main branch this boat night?
There have been some point changes, so some fleets will need to be updated if we play test.

[oak shell]

🛠️ test
🚢 main

[bitter furnace]

how could we resist the call of the monitor buffs

[quiet quiver]

There are definitely gonna be some fucking creatures coming out of ANS tho as people experiment with rails

[rigid bison]

anti rail-capital tech is gonna be vital

[quiet quiver]

If there’s multiple rail fleets you probably just win on caps if you watch your sight lines

[glad aurora]

there also kind of isn't anti-rail-capital tech that isn't MDs

and if you bring MDs and spot them outside of their spotting range you win the fight

[mint sinew]

I guess that partly depends how many/which corners the rail capitals are cutting. I can't imagine the points are there for a full softkill suite for example

[glad aurora]

My rail BB has better softkill than my usual BB

double disco ball, chaff box, active decoys

[runic torrent]

<@&942093958551588904> hey guys, DST changes have made things very weird for a lot of us. by default, boat night is scheduled on my time zone so <t:1712430000:F> <t:1712430000:R>. If this is a hardship for regulars who wanna jump into the new patch, just discuss it here and we can move it. this is a very weird transient phase where NA / EU and Oceania are all switching at different times

[hidden echo]

o7 thank you for the heads up Winged, it’s very appreciated

[mint sinew]

The swing on DST pushes boat night to 5am for me (AEST), so I certainly wouldn't be there for most of it. I'd appreciate moving it back a bit, but I understand that'll be a bit rough on the brits/euros

[tulip vault]

beam tac view effects look great btw

[tulip vault]

also, as an EDT fellow, I'm perfectly willing to move it backwards or forwards if need be, it's smack in the middle of the day for me

[wet root]

But how do they look on FOV: Yes?

[tulip vault]

Presumably stretchy

[wet root]

Still quite good

Wow, these beams burn out fast now

[tulip vault]

I am not sure how I feel about that

Beam dds are too strong rn

[wet root]

TBH I'm not even entirely sure I agree there

[tulip vault]

But against bulkers they just so often hit absolutely nothing at some point in the beaming, and I worry that burning out before you do anything will be just infuriating

[wet root]

They are very good, but IMO part of that is a symptom of OSP's 450 capabilities being a bit weak rn

Give OSP less of a need to be right on top of every ANS capital and beams get commensurately weaker

[tulip vault]

Yeah I don’t disagree, but I understand wanting to tamp down rather than lift things up

[wet root]

True

[bitter furnace]

So far I think it's working out well. Beamstones get around a minute and a bit of BSHRT time before redding out, instead of well over two minutes like before. They can still have a burst of incredible strength, but it has to be timed well, with more thought put into "do I really need to turn on BSHRT right now"

[wet root]

I'll have to give them a play, see how they feel

[runic torrent]

We can move it back. Can you guys check with the EU players? I have to head to bed and I know that by the time I'm awake you'll all be asleep

[bitter furnace]

I just spectated a game with four beamstones, and if it had been main branch beams, it would have absolutely been an ANS win. But since the player burned out their beams early in the match, they couldn't hold when OSP pushed forward into them in the late game. Still got like 12k damage on a few of the beamstones, but couldn't keep it up after wasting their shot early

[wet root]

My immediate gut response to this is negative, but I think a lot of that is that I haven't played a lot of beams since the PID fix

So I'm still thinking of them in a "you turn on BSHORT immediately and if you're lucky you'll start hitting them after 40s of the beam firing" perspective

[bitter furnace]

yeah, I cannot emphasize enough how gamechanging the PID fix was, you're on target in 5 seconds or less

[wet root]

I've slowly been sliding random Beamstones into more and more fleets after, they just get so much value

Just haven't used them enough to change how I think of them yet lol

[tulip vault]

I do think that the amount of normal beam uptime that gets wasted is a bit of a problem but cest la vie

[wet root]

This does seem potentially awkward

[tulip vault]

Balancing around bshort is good

[wet root]

Also making EREGs actually somewhat useful on Beamstones is nice

Though IDK if they're worthwhile yet

[bitter furnace]

one thing is that beams are still absolutely ruinous vs monitors

which resist cannonfire, and just got mega offensive buffs

so that's going to help keep beams relevant

[wet root]

I'm guessing the thrust buff to MNs makes them slightly less beamfodder, but I'm sure they'll still get chewed apart

(And the drive changes)

[tulip vault]

Yeah the beam much more rarely disappears into the monitor void

[bitter furnace]

yeah they can reposition much less painfully slowly, but they die in 10 seconds or less to a beam that's not at the edge of its range

[wet root]

Yeh, it means if you get jumped you probably have higher chances to get one or two out in time

But "higher" is not "high"

[dense fractal]

hi since were going to have neb night tonight would it be cool if someone would help me out with designing some fleets?

[wicked mirage]

If you want, I can help in about 6 hours? If so, I'll send you a message when I'm available.

[dense fractal]

yeah that works for me

[quiet quiver]

Yeah I started paying attention in battle reports and beamstones usually have >80% accuracy now, often straight up 100%

Lowest I’ve ever seen since the patch was 74%

[wicked mirage]

Hey, I'm around now

Just ping me if/when you're available

[dense fractal]

@wicked mirage im ready rn

[wicked mirage]

Kk

[wicked mirage]

I'm in activity 2

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Police Capfleet Prototype' is composed of 8 ships that cost 3000 points:

Cleric of Jagganoth : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Beam PD Sensor]
    Cleric of Jadis : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Beam PD Sensor]
  Cleric Of Solomon : 'Raines' class Frigate [Missile EWar PD Sensor]
   Cleric of Mammon : 'Raines' class Frigate [Missile EWar PD Sensor]
        Hospitaller : 'Raines' class Frigate [Gun PD]
          Attendant : 'Raines' class Frigate [Gun PD]
          Imagifier : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD]
          Sacrifice : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
      SGM-111 Currency Conversion : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]
           SGM-H-211 Puffin Slots : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [11pts]

[wary flame]

in lieu of cheap defenders, gunfrig capfleet

with more beme

[dire harness]

oh fun!

small thing but a second rapid on the frigs would be lovely if you can fit it

2x is like so much better than 1x

[wary flame]

These days I can actually get a small for the cost of two rapids, I might see if I can manage that on all four frigates

[runic torrent]

<@&942093958551588904> opened the boat night channels, oceania may arrive late

[dire harness]

oh ya, haven’t tested it compared to that yet

seems like a great choice though

love restores

[bitter furnace]

monitors are so back, 35k damage, about 5k on each was from HESH and the rest from gunplas

[junior heron]

urge to go to balcon because my battleship was ouchied ;_;

[wary flame]

NSLW, if you actually made it so copy-pasting stuff in the fleet editor preserves the ammo ratios in VLSes of different sizes, I love you

if that was just an accident then that's still great

[noble zodiac]

iirc there was a specific bug fix because it wasnt doing that

so yeah he did in fact Actively Make It Do That

[bitter furnace]

Yeah, I put out an update for Fleet Editor Hotkeys last month that added preservation of the contents of magazines and VLS when copying

it was a pain in the ass to get working and deal with the problem of what happens when you copy a larger socket into a smaller socket, but I can't live without it now

another thing in that update, hold tab while adjusting ammo counts instead of shift or ctrl, it'll adjust the ammo by its amount-per-point, or missiles by the ship's channel count 😄

[bitter furnace]

oh I misread, yes the ammo ratios smoothly scaling down was intentional and my chosen solution to the aforementioned socket problem

[quiet quiver]

So what’s our local conclusions of testulous?

[tulip vault]

I like the MLS changes

600mm seems actually effective now which is cool

the drive changes are cool too

I like it

[glad aurora]

positive on everything not how ridiculously expensive rail turrets are and mines needing to go up in price

these are things that can be easily fixed

[quiet quiver]

I’ve seen a bunch about HESH but how’s bomb now?

[tulip vault]

bomb has always been good imo

it just wasn't worth taking because HESH was not good

[quiet quiver]

Okay but it’s even better now, would you think it’s too much?

[tulip vault]

it seemed to work on individual small ships, which is wasn't great with before?

I don't think it's too good though

monitors still die to beams and missiles very easily

[wet root]

It sure as heck worked on my Tug that was orbiting a Raines

[tulip vault]

lmao

[wet root]

My concern with this patch is Vauxes, which fair pretty poorly against MNs

But hopefully the Bulker nerfs mean their mobility can be worth it

[tulip vault]

I'm not sure bulkers actually got a nerf

[wet root]

The drive/thrust nerfs I mean

[glad aurora]

vauxes eat such catastrophic shit this patch that I just categorically refuse to play them

[wet root]

I think Bulkers are fine, but hopefully less able to just be faster and similarly maneuverable to a Vaux

[quiet quiver]

LH bulkers definitely did

[tulip vault]

I think you have to work harder for it now, and you're super fragile, but I think it's still doable

the single LH bulker probably doesn't style on every ship now

[wet root]

Mostly I'm not sure they have much of a target right now, assuming you're referring to Vauxes

[tulip vault]

oh no I mean bulkers

[wet root]

Oh gotcha

[tulip vault]

you have to work a fair bit to be nimble

[wet root]

Yeah the Sunbulkers will be terrifying

I was just throwing together a minimal Gale Bulker to see if I can squish one in a cap fleet

And flanking at 50m/s seems fun

[tulip vault]

I was actually super happy with this list

[lime jungle]

Fleet '3.0k - Weird Hybrid Stuff' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

   Marwolaeth : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Missile Gun Plasma PD]
 Rhagluniaeth : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Rail PD]
Marchog Anwir : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun Sensor PD]
Llygad y Dydd : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Sensor PD]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
    SGM-123 Aderyn Ryhfedd : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
 SGM-132 Fflowlyn Block IV : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]
SGM-208 Brysgyll Block III : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [11pts]

[tulip vault]

I really like the weird bulker

especially in these of days of softkill primacy

[mint sinew]

It will be interesting to see if Vauxhalls can function as the mobile cap game ender again. They should have the edge on almost every cap/anti-cap ship that currently sees play

More sundrives makes 250mm RPF scarier too

[wet root]

Going to need more data on chaff, wonder if we'll be seeing a return of hardkill

[glad aurora]

1. yes
2. you won't survive that long

[tulip vault]

I'm growing convinced that more hardkill in general is just needed

I love the sidearm axfords but

[glad aurora]

My defenders didn't even shoot at your missiles, Tron

[tulip vault]

I've just styled on a lot of ships with ACT/CMD val, and I imagine it'll get worse with validator memory

[wet root]

I think between Monitors and basically every OSP fleet comp bringing at least one MD bulker nowadays it's pretty hard for them to actually end the game

[tulip vault]

I haven't played any games against you this patch I don't think

I'm not sure what you're talking about

[glad aurora]

Last boat night game, sidearm Axford

[tulip vault]

This week?

[wet root]

I'm slightly dubious about the val memory specifically for CMD because it does kind of impose a micro tax

[tulip vault]

Because I was not present at the final one(s)

[wet root]

In that if you're a bit late on your interruptor you're screwed

[mint sinew]

Always have the option to go back to the days of pd escort

[glad aurora]

My jammers auto-swapped to the Ocello and my Defenders didn't shoot at the S2s, so the monitors coming around the rock got a completely free volley into the Axford aside from the Interruptor

[quiet quiver]

Well currently it’s bugged and comm jamming appears to validate all targets

[tulip vault]

yeah that was not me ash, I'm sorry, I don't know what you're talking about

[quiet quiver]

But also EACT/{CMD} will acquire and validate from outside interrupter range, hah

[tulip vault]

I mean nominally it's an intel tax, right? because unless you're doing hangup micro the interruptor should go off by itself

[wet root]

It was Tom with the S2s in the last game

[glad aurora]

Welp, there we go

[tulip vault]

@junior heron it happened again lol

it's understandable ash no worries lol

[wet root]

It's an intel tax that can be worked around with micro, which I'm not a fan of

[tulip vault]

yeah

[wet root]

That's a very good point actually

[wary flame]

I think you can softkill the S2s, the triple seeker containers might get interesting

[tulip vault]

now that we're actually discussing it though I don't know under what conditions interruptors automatically fire

[wet root]

EACT/ARAD[CMD] containers time?

[wary flame]

most of the issue is presented by the softkill signature nerf, rather than anything to do with enhanced seekers

[tulip vault]

I've always assumed it's once the seeker is IDed but

[wary flame]

and the answer to your question Tron is that they don't

manual fire only

[tulip vault]

are you sure?

huh

[mint sinew]

Yeah, I had val mem containers lined up for boat night if I'd got an OSP game. Only done a little testing, but they can be made quite challenging to softkill even with perfect knowledge

[tulip vault]

I really could've sworn it did

[mint sinew]

Yeah, tagged as offensive not dual purpose like a dazzler. If you are weapons Free it will "shoot back" if you are being shot

[tulip vault]

ohhh

okay that must be it

[glad aurora]

I remain the strongest soldier of valmem S2H

the weave point reduction pays for valmem

[junior heron]

what happened again?

[mint sinew]

EACT[ARAD][Wake] is also nasty. Needing all your radar emconed from at least 5k is a big cost

[tulip vault]

we were confused

as is often the case

[mint sinew]

Can also just use Wake as a backup seeker to pull yourself in for round 2 when jamming is present

[tulip vault]

also yes I've 100% been bamboozled by this

[quiet quiver]

AIUI this is just normally jammable

Jamming out the primary also clears memory if it loses track

Let us all be thankful that EACT/ARAD/{EO} is impossible

[mint sinew]

True, but we currently live in a world where nothing is unsoftkillable. If I can make a seeker set that forces my opponents to bring full jammer coverage that's a big win

(because then I can just mixed salvo some HOJ/ARAD and watch their jammer blow up)

[quiet quiver]

I now again think it would be cool if ARAD pointed at radar panels/antennae and jammers on final approach

[wary flame]

quick draft of a capfleet with some new stuff

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Fwoosh Fwoosh That's The Sound Of The Police' is composed of 8 ships that cost 3000 points:

Cleric of Jagganoth : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Beam PD Sensor]
  Cleric of Solomon : 'Raines' class Frigate [Missile EWar PD Sensor]
   Cleric of Mammon : 'Raines' class Frigate [Missile EWar PD Sensor]
        Hospitaller : 'Raines' class Frigate [Gun PD]
            Templar : 'Raines' class Frigate [Gun PD]
             Layman : 'Raines' class Frigate [Gun PD]
            Prophet : 'Raines' class Frigate [Gun PD]
          Sacrifice : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
      SGM-111 Currency Conversion : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]
           SGM-H-391 Fishtail-UAP : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [21pts]

[wary flame]

no new tech, just gunfrigs and slightly heavier ordnance on the bombers

costs less than torpcorvs and they can handle most things besides torptugs

mostly this is just intended as a counter to AMMs Everywhere

[glad aurora]

It really is crazy just how many AMMs are out there

[tulip vault]

yeah I am wondering if "have PD and win gunfights" is a legit ANS cap strat

[glad aurora]

Ammo elevator Mk62 Sprinters have served me better than my torp ones, even with Programming Bus

that said, they can't flex into killing MNs, so...

[olive blade]

this patch is real interesting

enjoying the changes a little concerned about the rails but hey

its definitely been a nice mixup

esp for missile play

[lime jungle]

SGM-H-399 Ocello Remover 9000 is a size 3 missile that costs 45 points.

[glad aurora]

self-explanatory device

SEACT/[EO] with valmem so it goes straight through blackjack

I don't think I've ever seen anyone other than me bring Lyrebird + Blackjack Ocellos

also has hardened skin for anti-aurora/AMM breakpoints

My current idea is bringing two gun Vauxhalls with 12 of these in the backpack and deleting MNs and CCs with them, but I'm not sure how my PD shakes out in that concept now that Thunderhead spam is so good

[wary flame]

radar jamming here would be enough, since it jams the only search seeker

but but you can always launch two parts this to one part EO/HOJ

[glad aurora]

Hm. I'll see if people start bringing Lyrebirds more often - I know that it's a point of significant testing with the chaff nerf.

[mint sinew]

Staging inside aurora range feels rough, that's an extra 2ish seconds of active time for the auroras to work

[glad aurora]

Hold on, what's Aurora range

[tulip vault]

isn't it 3?

[glad aurora]

That's what I thought

[mint sinew]

Why did I think it was 4 lol

Never mind, go forth and dunk on Ocellos

[wet root]

Also vulnerable to Blankets, but I think I'm the only person who frequently brings those on Ocellos

[olive blade]

I have seen a few blanket ocellos and I expect more with the power buff

[dense fractal]

<@&942093958551588904> anyone wanna neb a bit today?

[tulip vault]

I think Im a little too test branch-brained to want to hop back into main to do some pubbing

[dense fractal]

we can do test branch aswell

just wanna play with someone

[wary flame]

if testulous continues apace this probably won't happen any longer

but still, lmao

[tulip vault]

goodness lmao

[dense fractal]

damn thats alot

[wary flame]

<@&942093958551588904> bote?

[dense fractal]

id bote

[glad aurora]

testbote?

[dense fractal]

as long as we bote

[wary flame]

looks like normalulous

not a ton of people on test branch

[glad aurora]

Mm. Let's see.

I can probably just shove one of the fleets I'm testing into mainbranch, though losing valmem on it is whatever

[wicked mirage]

Guh!

[wet root]

||Somebody help me budget this, my Ocello is dieing||

(Also, ||0 AEs|| )

[tulip vault]

in that r-mag is 39000 rounds of flak

[glad aurora]

39,370 rounds of flak

[wet root]

How long could it fire for before it ran out, I wonder

[junior heron]

it has like, 2 or 3 bastions?

[supple sonnet]

,,,,, hm.

would wake/[act]/act be a decent seeker loadout for containers, do y'all think?

since just about nobody takes flares

[quiet quiver]

Because no one takes flares you don’t really need the [act]

[supple sonnet]

hm

wake/act/hoj then maybe

[glad aurora]

yeah, the problem is just "what happens when my wake doesn't acquire"

which is why it's usually ACT/HOJ/[Wake], especially with valmem

[supple sonnet]

oh no for sure

we're just wondering about making a wake primary container

[quiet quiver]

Wake/Act/[ARAD] maybe if you want wake primary

[wet root]

You do want some sort of validator with wake, otherwise it likes to find a tiny break in the wake trail and turn around

[wet root]

Solid against individual ships, beware that wake seekers with multiple viable targets like to wander a lot and miss

I think because unlike act there's no return strength on wake, so it's just as likely to go for every target it can see

[supple sonnet]

[quiet quiver]

Oh no

[supple sonnet]

ah hell, i forgot valmem was a testulous thing

[dense fractal]

anyone down for some nebulous tonight?

[dense fractal]

<@&942093958551588904> anyone down for some neb today?

[tulip vault]

I could if some more folks are

[eternal bramble]

sure

[supple sonnet]

recently in testulous: we learn that you cannot duck under torps by gluing yourself to the launching ship

[dire harness]

rails are fun :D

[supple sonnet]

oh, thinking of, @glad aurora did those hekp missiles we hit you with last night do much?

[glad aurora]

Knocked out a missile bus, my SPC, and one VLS; I also lost my TL radar to guns, which is why you weren't immediately torped (I had a couple seconds going on the panel restore)

[supple sonnet]

ah, damn

[glad aurora]

I just pulled back and spent 3/5 restores

[supple sonnet]

we should try going back to a higher payload, tbh

i mean, we should have followed it up with a volley around the corner, but still

[glad aurora]

You were lucky in either case, my AMMs went into the rock

generally your play there was to stay on the far side of the B tunnel so that I couldn't torp you, since I spent my S2s on the surrender CL

[supple sonnet]

,,,, that does give us an idea

we could probably switch from bssj/bssj/decoy to ssj/bssj/decoy to fuck with radar amms and save some points

[glad aurora]

SSJ is just weaker BSSJ against AMMs, I believe

I usually just run HS and that's the end of it for anti-Ocello weapons

[supple sonnet]

yea, but ssjs are also spherical

,,,, i really wish that we could pull off the rac/bssj combo to get stealth s3h, tbh 😔

,,,, damnit, now we're thinking about hoj amms for use against container strikes

[dense fractal]

yo quick question anyone wanna teach me the basics of OSP fleet creation?

[glad aurora]

on testbranchulous, you can probably get away with

• MN
• C90
• HESH sufficient to fire for 15 minutes, bomb sufficient to fire for 8
• 4 ammo elevators
• One Bellbird, one T30 for light targets (grape, HE, AP)
• Side mounts take one VLS-1-46 and one Utility Pick (Blackjack EO jammer, Pinpoint FCR, Grazer, Pavise)
• Load VLS with some reasonable amount of chaff and a metric ton of 2pt AMMs (20-30)
• Duplicate as many times as points allow, swapping the Utility Pick as appropriate
• Fill remaining points with shuttle of varying less-than-another-MN expensiveness

[dense fractal]

thanks

[glad aurora]

oh, right, you'll need DC too

reinforced CIC + DC complex + reinforced drive + rapid DC + citadel magazine

adjust from there to fill remaining slots and account for crew and power requirements

[quiet quiver]

I would rec fitting in an EWR tug too, they’re not expensive and do work, optionally also fit it for late game capping

For other non-MN assets if you want mines the mine shuttle now gives you almost what a mine tug used to

[glad aurora]

developing further crimes against OSP fleet design

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Creatures' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

Sucker Punch : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun Missile PD]
  Right Hook : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun Missile PD]
      Bookie : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [PD EWar Sensor]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-101 Hobgoblin : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
  SGM-113 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]

[glad aurora]

I think it's perfectly appropriate in this new LN environment to have your entire PD be exactly 132 AMMs

[bitter furnace]

That’s a very broad topic and I dunno how to summarize it well. I guess you want to keep in mind the classic rule: specialized ships, generalized fleets. It applies to OSP even moreso than ANS. Their ships do best when specialized for a specific situation or role, and you combine your specialists like lego bricks to form a fleet that can take on many challenges

When building MNs and LNs, be aware of the XL sized sockets, they can fit special compartments that are very powerful and central to a ship’s defensive style

For OSP ships it’s also more often that they end up not fully fitted, when you consider “what should I put in this socket” the answer is sometimes “nothing”, since you’ve already got all the equipment you really need to accomplish the current ship’s specialized role and the points would be better off invested in adding another ship

Hope those tips help

[mint sinew]

Double blind bulker is certainly a fleet building decision you can make

[glad aurora]

They go 39 m/s flank and accelerate to that speed in 9.5 seconds

They're perfect creatures

[mint sinew]

Running combat ships blind is too painful for me these days. Especially bulkers who tend to outlast any escorts carrying their radars

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'When the cloud dissipates i'm lying completely dead on the pavement' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Psychotherapy Enforcement : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Missile PD]
        Mandated Reporter : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [EWar Sensor PD]
```This fleet uses 4 different missile types:
```yaml
                        SGM-101 Hobgoblin : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
                          SGM-113 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-264 5585 Grippy Socks Club Invitation : CRUISE - SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [12pts]
    SGM-H-364 5150 Grass Touching Mandate : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/[PSV(EO)] - HEKP [46pts]

[glad aurora]

edit: had valmem on for the s2s for no reason, the fleet now has some more S2s and some more AMMs on the vette

[wicked mirage]

Hey uh... random ship name generator? You doin ok?

[quiet quiver]

12 pt SAH s2? What penaid is on those?

[glad aurora]

11pt, in reality

they're Hardened Skin

[wary flame]

<@&942093958551588904> boat

[dense fractal]

bote time

[dire harness]

boat :0

[lone violet]

i genuinely would but i hafta pack for a move tomorrow 😔

[dense fractal]

what vc?

[wary flame]

will start boats momentarily, I'll be in SSC

[glad aurora]

waiting in boatserver

[dense fractal]

that is?

[noble zodiac]

flesh

[wary flame]

am in Lesten

[glad aurora]

ah, mainulous

never mind, then

[night fable]

I'll be hosting on my Twitch channel in like an hour and a half

[wicked mirage]

[noble zodiac]

OH YEAH VIVIULOUS

WHICH I CAN actually appear

maybe

if spoons

[noble zodiac]

https://tenor.com/view/catra-adora-she-ra-adoragoddess-catradora-gif-19031574

[dense fractal]

<@&942093958551588904> where are people at?

[night fable]

im hosting for stream in 40 min

[dense fractal]

twitch? youtube?

[night fable]

twitch, I always @ the role when I go live with my neb nights

[night fable]

It's Friday, and that means it's time for more Friday Night NEBULOUS: Fleet Command! I'm hosting open multiplayer lobbies for everyone to join, so bring your fleets!
https://www.twitch.tv/docvivileandra <@&942093958551588904>

[dense fractal]

bote time

[noble zodiac]

nebus

[dense fractal]

so where do we meet up?

just on the stream or?

[night fable]

yeah, there will be a link to my discord for vc

[glad aurora]

updated version after watching hermann

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'When the cloud dissipates i'm lying completely dead on the pavement' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Psychotherapy Enforcement : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Missile PD]
        Mandated Reporter : 'Raines' class Frigate [PD EWar Sensor]
```This fleet uses 4 different missile types:
```yaml
                             SGM-101 Hobgoblin : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
     SGM-264 5585 Grippy Socks Club Invitation : CRUISE - SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [11pts]
         SGM-H-364 5150 Grass Touching Mandate : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/[PSV(EO)] - HEKP [46pts]
SGM-H-364 5150 Grass Touching Mandate Block II : CRUISE - ARAD(RADAR)/ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [33pts]

[glad aurora]

mixed salvos of act/[eo] and arad/act seemed to work really well, so now they're here

HEKP have HS, HEI have decoys

the ideal situation is to just launch 4x11 salvos of SAH S2 at people until they have no more AMMs, and then delete them

bonus points for killing tugs and shuttles, I suppose

[quiet quiver]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2923199303

Modder made a replay system for Neb

Fucking wild that it even exists

[glad aurora]

👁️ it's finally out

[quiet quiver]

AIUI for technical reasons it also has to reconstruct the map at runtime instead of loading it normally, or something

Which makes it even wilder

[runic torrent]

boat night at <t:1713034800:t> <t:1713034800:R>

[dense fractal]

NEB WOOOOOO

[quiet quiver]

I’m not here this week, but test or main?

[runic torrent]

<@&942093958551588904> boat night channels over!

[wet root]

Server should be up, but I'll likely miss boat night tonight

[glad aurora]

Is server testulous?

[wet root]

Yes, I can switch it to mainulous if needed, ping me if so

[wary flame]

Out with the family, no boat for me

[tulip vault]

Yeah I am too wiped from transit woes to boat night

[runic torrent]

ah, may just be one of those weeks. if no-one is around I'll take the channels down in an hour

[glad aurora]

I am around, but it's also Bingo Brawlers right now - if we can scrape three others together, we could at least give it a shot

[wicked mirage]

I missed too much sleep last night again and should prolly take a nap x.x

Especially cuz I got DnD in 2.5 hours

[glad aurora]

Go sleep, girl

[wicked mirage]

Yeah I just got off of work otherwise I would have just slept more earlier x.x

[noble zodiac]

nebulous?

no

napulous

[supple sonnet]

napulous sleep command

[noble zodiac]

yeag,

... shit that works really well actually

they're spelled isomorphically

nEBulous FleeT command
nAPulous SleeP command

[glad aurora]

the tugswarm advances

[wary flame]

I wasn't even tugswarming, I was running a normal capfleet

I just did about 30k between one MMT, a torptug that got two beam DDs, some rocket shuttles and the mine tug that got an Axford

and pulled an absurd number of gremlin caps by just running past beam DD squadrons and standing on points

[glad aurora]

as is good and right

beam DDs do not know what to do when charged by gun shuttle wings

[wicked mirage]

<@&942093958551588904> Heya! Anyone wanna play some Operation Burning Lance with me and Misc?

[eternal bramble]

Gimme a few and I'll be there

[dense fractal]

uh iguess

[noble zodiac]

conceivably

[wicked mirage]

Yay!~

[misty storm]

whats that

[wicked mirage]

We're in OBL lobby #1

[wicked mirage]

It's an awesome total overhaul mod for Neb. It basically reimagines the games with 5, technically 6, new factions all internally balanced agaisnt each other. Though the mod creator has a disclaimer that it's definitely not perfectly balanced, which is ok xD the mod is pretty big after all.

[dire harness]

neb mod!

[wicked mirage]

The 5 factions are also split in two different greater factions and the intent is for the greater factions to face each other.

So you have 2 factions in the "Peacekeepers" and 2 factions in the "Warlords" and you have the Peacekeepers on 1 team and the Warlords on the other team.

The 5th faction is basically Spaceship Tyranids with bioships that are their own third faction against all the others.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3002083355&searchtext=operation

[quiet quiver]

Yeah sure I'll check it out, lemme download the mod plus Neb main

[wicked mirage]

Alrighty!~

[noble zodiac]

any VCulous?

[wicked mirage]

I'll be in Horus Hangout cuz I got nowhere else to be rn ^^

So if people show up we can hangout there!

[noble zodiac]

@wicked mirage im gonna disappear to get food but i'll be back for the next game !

[wicked mirage]

Alrighty!~

[hidden dove]

Sure!

[quiet quiver]

Okay I've found out what happened to my BB

There's a lightning critical event that does no damage if it ticks down, just causes more crits across the ship

So a few of those and I had so much stuff going on that I didn't notice the overload

[wicked mirage]

ahh gotcha, that's kind of a cool mechanic

Sorry that happened to you tho :c

[wary flame]

OBL has such a high "what the hell was that" quotient that I've more or less stopped being annoyed about it with the exception of Big Railgun

since I know what a railgun does just fine

Had a frigate burned out earlier by a single scratch from one of those crystal guns, it reproduced fast enough to overwhelm the DC and red the whole thing

needs more rapids

[glad aurora]

as is good and right, my only OBL fleet is a 5FPA beamship

[rigid bison]

An issue with the Railguns Device is that it can run offbrand Sarissas (and magnetic sub-Defender CWIS) which receive the buffs from the rail modules, limiting counterbattery fire to other rails and maybe long range beams on a good day

Maybe one of either area defense or CIWS could become anti-synergystic with railguns. Think a Metal Storm type system for CIWS or some kind of defensive Autocannon that’s still far too low caliber to engage ships, leaning on the other Zaterian unique weapon family.

[wary flame]

<@&942093958551588904> come neb with me, come neb, come neb away

[quiet quiver]

Sure, test or main?

[wary flame]

on main at the moment, I think

[dense fractal]

Sure

[wary flame]

there's only one test server up and it keeps being filled with gigastacks

[wicked mirage]

Ok!

I made a channel

[wary flame]

I have wiped out all of House Atreides in the ~~kanly ~~ capwar

[wicked mirage]

Well done ^^

[wicked mirage]

Credit to Hermann on the Neb Discord

[rigid bison]

Will S3H-heavy fleets be more meta if these changes go through?

[glad aurora]

Not unless you're very good, which Hermann is

But, after seeing Hermann run those missiles and then taking spins off of their seekers for my own missiles, I can verify that they're very nice to have

[dense fractal]

yo would anybody be down for some stock <@&942093958551588904> in a hour?

[wicked mirage]

RIP Hazel

[wary flame]

Hazel dead

[quiet quiver]

Is this an MLS bulker, perchance?

[wicked mirage]

No, unfortunately

lol

Here's a better version

Complete with TC'd Bloodhound ❤️

[quiet quiver]

Hazel is back

[night fable]

It's Friday, lab rats, and that means it's time for yet more Friday Night Fleet Command! I'm hosting yet more open multiplayer lobbies in NEBULOUS: Fleet Command - ready your fleets, and join the battle!

https://www.twitch.tv/docvivileandra <@&942093958551588904>

[olive blade]

trying the missile jammers out a bit more now that amms are in vogue

I find that they really seem to be struggling

even like 6 of the ball ones doesn't seem like enough

and the point straight ahead ones seem to suffer from the missiles ending up outside the cone

[wary flame]

I was doing all right with four regular SSJs on S2s for popping AMM corvettes, but using Hardened Skin instead to put their health over the usual AMM breakpoints worked basically as well and also resists flak.

[olive blade]

like I just fired uh

volleys of 6 s3h with at a monitor with just amms and I still lose 50-80% of the volley

[mint sinew]

I found the SSJ jammers work worse on hybrids because the hybrids are fast enough to just run into the AMM anyway. Sticking one BSSJ behind a decoy set or two was my magic anti-AMM combination before the latest patches, I haven't tested it properly since

[olive blade]

hmmm yeah

[rigid bison]

Boat night today?

[wicked mirage]

I tried to balance teams with some Blues, but they were like "No we wanna face the Gold Stack!" and I was like "are you sure?" and they were so I just said "Alrighty then~"

They gave it their best shot.

Their two Axes were tanky! Took out one of my Bulkers and almost killed another.

[oak shell]

How many points in those 5 bulkers?

[quiet quiver]

The fittings look pretty thin so I'm guessing 600 pts apiece

Yeah counting, there's reactor, drive, radar, CIC, magazine, 4 guns, berthing, and only 2 unknown compartments, which are probably DC, at least one of them rapid

(If I know my built-ins correctly)

Wait there's a 3x3x3 I didn't count, so either a single buff module, or light reactor for double drive

But I bet it's this fleet, so DL it and check it out: #1164000873031151637 message

[glad aurora]

yeah, it seems people really haven't realized how busted going all-in on AMMs as OSP is yet, and I don't know why

[wet root]

I spun the server up on Testing, let me know if I should spin one up on Main instead

[junior heron]

<@&942093958551588904> boat night? I've got a temporary bonus channel until the proper channels get opened

[dense fractal]

sure

[wicked mirage]

Gotta nap today, sorry x.x glhf!

[dense fractal]

gn

[runic torrent]

whoops sorry

[junior heron]

no worry, Tech got it

[runic torrent]

meant to open the boat night channels DX

thanks alice!

[topaz jolt]

Hii hi there

Did boat night start already?

[wet root]

We're just waiting in the lobby rn

[supple sonnet]

Hopefully we will make next week but ew are sick this weak

[junior heron]

:( take care

[supple sonnet]

We are going to try, we are quite sick and tired of missing boats

[wary flame]

<@&942093958551588904> I summon boat

[dense fractal]

botetime

[supple sonnet]

hmmm?

Oh

I'm dumb nvmd

[dense fractal]

testulous?

or mainulous

[wary flame]

unsure, I'd like a couple more people

currently on main but I can switch

[dense fractal]

ohno im down with main just wondering

[wary flame]

OK, can we at least get 3 for stacking purposes?

[dense fractal]

sure why not?

[dense fractal]

are you in a game rn?

[wary flame]

I'll be out in just a minute, I thought I'd start the stack process early

[dense fractal]

np

wich one?

[wary flame]

Chivalry 2, actually

[dense fractal]

oh ok

[wary flame]

<@&942093958551588904> loading up neb, anyone else for stack?

[quiet quiver]

Sure, one sec

[dire harness]

stack in ERI 2 if you want to fight <3

[wary flame]

there's me and two blues, it wouldn't be much of a showdown

[quiet quiver]

Spent like an hour trying to get a volley of 2 short-ranged containers past a single defender, RIP

Including shit like BSSJ/RAC

The sad part is that 2 act/[cmd]/decoy both get intercepted, but as soon as I send a third all 3 get through

I want backpacks for bonking sprinters!

[wet root]

Could bring rocket containers for Sprimter duty

[quiet quiver]

I found a shitty design that works, costs 15 points, and even a single one gets past a defender

"Alice, how is that shitty?"

Well, it's a max-speed 960 damage support container

[quiet quiver]

Testing this, and unlike most ships, Sprinter has a low enough RCS a chaff slightly behind it can get spotted before the sprinter

[wary flame]

something something a fraction of our power (single 9pt weave S2)

[quiet quiver]

Yeah the issue is I want something that can also get past AMMs

[quiet quiver]

Well I'm pretty sure I can do it pretty with a 2-channel mixed salvo if I pay for 18 points in decoys, 1 slot in the primary and 2 pips in a support container. But I am tired of testing

[wet root]

Oh, huh, I suppose the RCS is small enough to not be limited by seeker range, TIL

[glad aurora]

Today I'm planning to do a bit of ANS-side testing of the Max Warhead S2

I think it'd be very funny to have a Not-TorpCL

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Legally Not An OSP Fleet' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Ocello (Fast) : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Missile PD Sensor]
  C56 Monitor : 'Raines' class Frigate [Gun EWar]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-299 Legally Distinct Torpedo : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [15pts]

[lime jungle]

SGM-299 Legally Distinct Torpedo is a size 2 missile that costs 15 points.

[wet root]

Surely it's worth getting some longer range S2s and flakskip S2H in there

I don't hate having some torplike S2s on the surrender CL but going all in on it seems like a good way to die to a single Bastion Bulker

Might also want to mix some (B)SSJs in so AMMs don't ruin your day

(You can run them out of AMMs in theory but I suspect they'll have enough to blunt at least one salvo, at which point you're 5k away from a very angry gunship)

[glad aurora]

I could throw on some of my standard longer-range BSSJ S2s (which I believe go out to 7k), but that significantly cuts down on my magazine depth - those are 19pts each

As for flakskip S2H, I'm genuinely not familiar with the tech implementation, but I've also not ever seen a LN that... brings flak.

[wet root]

BSSJ is what, 10 points? You should be able to get a CMD one for 15, if it's got lower speed than the rest of the salvo it should cover them pretty well

[wet root]

I absolutely have run into flak LNs when running Gale Frigs

It's why I run a load of 24 S2s + 6 gale Torps instead of 48 S2s

[glad aurora]

😔

[wet root]

But admittedly that was before AMMs got so popular

[wet root]

I don't think you need more than one or two per salvo, though you'd need to test

[glad aurora]

The usual is 2/salvo for my Ocello

[glad aurora]

Doesn't look like it's possible

10 for BSSJ, 2 for missile body, 1.5 for HEI warhead, 1 for Direct, 3.5 for CMD

[wet root]

0 for direct, and you can skip the warhead, but still 15.5

Though I thought the body is only 1?

Or wait no 2 sounds right

[glad aurora]

Body's 2 in neb as I have it up, yeah

[wet root]

Oh lol

[glad aurora]

also, right, direct's on Weave

that's where the 1pt's from

[wet root]

Ah, yeah, presumably don't want that on BSSJ lol

[glad aurora]

17pts is... probably fine, I can drop the ADs and eat that cost

[olive blade]

I had some issues with losing some of my weave missiles on final approach

to single defenders

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Legally Not An OSP Fleet' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Ocello (Fast) : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Missile PD Sensor]
  C56 Monitor : 'Raines' class Frigate [Gun EWar]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
                         SGM-101 Hobgoblin : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
SGM-298 Legally Distinct Support Container : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [17pts]
          SGM-299 Legally Distinct Torpedo : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [15pts]

[glad aurora]

Gets me 12 salvos of 6 HS/2 BSSJ, with the BSSJ having longer range but being slower

Hm. Yeah, AMMmaxing OSP is still best OSP, damn. Last-second AMM launch effectively goes through BSSJ by sheer proximity.

[wet root]

IIRC AMM detonation doesn't rely on radar, it's just absolute proximity

So if they don't have time to wander far enough under jamming they'll still hit, even if they're not in the radar cone

I've been meaning to test reducing my AMM's maneuver to take advantage of that

[glad aurora]

Yep - I was losing almost none of my salvo to the AMMmaxed 450 LNs I run on the way in, and then just before they hit, I'd lose half to 2/3 of the salvo.

Ended up with a 28 hits to 20 hardkills rate for 48 missiles.

(admittedly, this is better than pre-BSSJ, where I would just lose every single missile until I broke through all 100+ AMMs)

[wet root]

That's theoretically not bad, but you really want to disable quickly, so I'd be worried about the first two salvos' performance

[glad aurora]

Definitely.

As I've alluded to many times in balcon, I'm very worried about what might happen if more people pick up on AMMmaxing as a PD tech

right now, fortunately, they don't (and if I bring a more reasonable count of AMMs, 48 missiles is two dead LNs)

[wet root]

The fun part of Gales is they cost the same as an AMM

And you bring a lot more Gales than they have AMM depth

[quiet quiver]

And this is why I was interested in anti-sprinter containers instead of weave s2s for a bulker backpack

[glad aurora]

ANS can't afford to AMMmax right now, however

OSP can, they just buy 100 AMMs instead of a shuttle

[wet root]

I think Misc runs AMMs on his Sprinters

And I've been considering stealing that

[glad aurora]

Correct, as do I - but that's not really maxing, that's "survives an MMT magazine of S2s"

and those are also more gucci 3pt AMMs

[wet root]

True

There's also the matter of, if they're spending 300 points on AMMs and still fall over to Gales or hardened skin S3H, I'm fairly okay with them being immune to other missiles

[glad aurora]

That's actually a good question - let me go fire up neb again and fire some HS S3H into my LNs

I think they actually kill those too thanks to the last-attempt salvo explosion wall

[wet root]

If you're running big warhead non-EL, I believe it's a matter of luck

And hoping they're not Fishtails

(I haven't actually tested how ACT[CMD] fishtail hits non-EL AMM performance but I suspect it makes the AMMs quite sad, thanks to the intercept angle changes)

[glad aurora]

Two salvos of 10, split half and half between HS and Decoy

All AMMs expended

[oak shell]

AMM proliferation means I might get to test my counter A-AMMs that I cooked up before the OSP update

[wet root]

I should send a single 1pt container ahead of my OSP strikes to eat AMMs

[glad aurora]

Hm

I wonder if Defenders kill it before it can trigger the last-ditch salvo

[wet root]

I'm actually not sure you can realistically fit one in most OSP missile builds

The stack launchers compete with MLS for space

[noble zodiac]

OCELLO FAST LMAO

i love the it

[quiet quiver]

Oh hey that's my not-a-torp missile design, I had named it Spinjitzu Light

[glad aurora]

We probably ended up at convergent design, definitely

since it was your concept I was riffing off of in the first place

[wicked mirage]

You can send warhead-less 1pt Fixed ACT S1's with max range set to Detect small targets with your salvos, they'll home in on enemy AMM's and force their Prox fuzes to trigger. If you set them to Defensive but toggle off all the doctrine sizes then you can still track fire them like an Offensive missile but they'll never lock on to ships with their seeker, only missiles.

And since these S1's don't have warheads they'll just plow through enemy AMM's until one rolls a success to deal damage.

Since missiles don't do damage-on-death by default anymore.

Behold, the empty fist is the deadliest.

[lime jungle]

SGM-132 False Petal is a size 1 missile that costs 1 points.

[wicked mirage]

Speed can be adjusted to match the speed of your S2's.

Or slightly exceed the speed to guarantee the intercept.

[wet root]

Ooh, Defensive to make them ignore ships is clever, does that also make them skip chaff?

[wicked mirage]

Negative unfortunately, but usually enemy missiles are much closer than chaff, and the seeker can only see 2km.

At least, I don't think it ignores chaff, it's worth testing but it's still useful even if it doesn't.

[wet root]

Probably not something that will come up much either way, yeah

[wicked mirage]

The chaff nerf will also benefit this as well ^^

[wet root]

I want a chaff support module

[wicked mirage]

lol

That'd be interesting

[wet root]

So I can have a salvo of "AMM"s that deploys a cloud halfway between me and them

And also so I can cruise an S2 full of chaff onto the point to protect my Sprinter

[wary flame]

I've been using my version of these as a next-gen variant of my salvo escort S1s, they're handy

did take me a minute to get the speed matching down but since they now actively chase enemy AMMs I could hot launch them and make them a bit faster

the exact angle of attack isn't so important any longer

[glad aurora]

<@&942093958551588904> testulous in eri 6

[wicked mirage]

Interesting!~

[rigid bison]

gimme a few, gotta turn off all my mods and get on testulous

[quiet quiver]

Posted on Nebcord, la creatura
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1016005945547046912/1232642665682571337/image.png?ex=662a3370&is=6628e1f0&hm=2ce74fbddfca78a508fb5aa61faaa2de8d85fb5adc9d2ef3a1d1e8f2c8f0d1f4&

[tulip vault]

We heard you liked lyrebirds, so we put a lyrebird on your lyrebird

[quiet quiver]

Mk64 and double FCR are both so weird to see too

[glad aurora]

1x Mk64

what possible reason

[quiet quiver]

Yeah! It's bizzare

[wet root]

Gotta get value from your FCR and backup FCR

[dense fractal]

<@&942093958551588904> anyone down to practice a bit before boat night tonight?

[wicked mirage]

Boat Night is tomorrow silly goose ^^

[dense fractal]

oh ye

yippe

sleep schedule

[wicked mirage]

<@&942093958551588904> Nebubu Fleem Commband?

[dense fractal]

yeeees

[oak shell]

I could do a boat

[wicked mirage]

We in channel

!

[glad aurora]

Test or main?

[dire harness]

boat :0

[supple sonnet]

bebulous beep bobband

Pyrope 🩸 ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) <@&942093958551588904> Nebubu Fleem Commband?

[topaz jolt]

Oh audio says 'Awaiting Endpoint.' I've never seen that before.