Nebulous: Fleet Command

[wary flame]

escort beams sitting in squadrons don't normally have AMMs so you can maybe go CMD/HOJ

[glad aurora]

Hm. We'll see how it works out.

[glad aurora]

a story in three parts

bonus round

also obligatory @wary flame to inflict psychic damage

[tulip vault]

<@&942093958551588904> boat?

[dire harness]

boat?

[tulip vault]

would people be up for a pub game

[wary flame]

@tulip vault in vc

[supple sonnet]

WAIT HOLD ON THEY DIDN'T TELL US THAT WE GOT ACCEPTED TO CONQUESTULOUS GAMING

WHY DIDN'T THEY TELL US

[dark dawn]

Oh you did?

[supple sonnet]

apparently

[glad aurora]

Well, shit, there you go.

[wicked mirage]

<@&942093958551588904> Bideo gumbo go space space?

[quiet quiver]

Hell yeah, gimme a minute

[oak shell]

I could

[wicked mirage]

cash money

[tulip vault]

Sadly I must essay rather than boat

So close to commodore too

[wicked mirage]

All g, good luck with your essay!~

am in activity 1

[supple sonnet]

tired and bored at work and wanna listen in

don't mind us

[dire harness]

space :0

[supple sonnet]

or not ty work wifi

[oak shell]

I also crashed

[wicked mirage]

Are able to get back online? :c

[oak shell]

I need to go to work

Sorry :(

[wicked mirage]

dang x.x

alrighty have a good day!

Thank you random name generator

https://tenor.com/view/dance-gif-22583483

[tulip vault]

Excellent

[noble zodiac]

i might appear

maybe

ish

[wicked mirage]

I think we just finished for rn :c

[noble zodiac]

https://tenor.com/view/boomshakalaka-gif-25687559

[wary flame]

exemplary work troops

only 13 rocket hits, but they knocked out all the launchers and either the CIC or the drives, so it just sat there while the MDs reduced it to scrap metal

[tulip vault]

That is a sad cl

[wary flame]

it's the single hardkilled missile that does it for me

[tulip vault]

Grazer power

[quiet quiver]

I laugh that if you sold the illuminator that basically pays for upgrading the 2 SAH to EO

Also suspect you knocked out the CIC and it was on aux steering, I saw thrusters firing for a bit

[glad aurora]

apparently this fleet is so horrifying that even Hazel doesn't want to transcribe it

[tulip vault]

Do you have underscores in the name?

[glad aurora]

tl;dr: every single type of softkill in nebulous, placed on a VLS-2 surrender ocello

No, I do not

• EO jammer
• Lyrebird
• Disco ball
• Chaff
• Killjoys
• AMMs

and just in case, there are also two Pavises

it also has a max speed of 44 m/s so it can run with liners

[tulip vault]

Weird

Well hazel is just eepy sometimes

[quiet quiver]

Interrupter or hangup?

[glad aurora]

Interruptor

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'NG Tower' is composed of 1 ship which costs 3000 points:

Raincloud : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Missile Gun EWar PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses 4 different missile types:
```yaml
             SGM-113 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
         SGM-210 Stoneburner : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [14pts]
SGM-210 Stoneburner Block II : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [10pts]
          SGM-270 False Idol : DIRECT - NONE - NONE [8pts]

[glad aurora]

thank you hazel

update after playtesting: I am, in fact, unmissileable

particularly funny was the CMD/SACT cork torpedoes that were being fired at me and which simultaneously got jammed out

however, being unmissileable means nothing when the enemy just brings eight beam DDs

(the stoneburners, however, do exactly what they were intended to and kill keystones very well)

[quiet quiver]

How many beamers did you get through?

[glad aurora]

Four

17k damage

(there was also the acap sprinter I killed, and the stealth bomber sprinter)

I might go down to double drive and build bigger salvos, though

just so I can also reliably threaten capitals

5 S2s, even with SSJ, can get wiped; I don't think 7 or 8 would

Yep, 7-S2 mixed salvos can punch through a side-on BB (disco ball, 4x defender, 2x stonewall, etc)

there was also a very funny incident testing it against my preferred solo sprinter design where a single S2 got through the 3pt AMM salvo to hit the sprinter anyway

I wonder if this might actually be better than the torpcello. It doesn't kill as quickly, but you can really feel that extra 2km of range (1.5km outside of beam BB max range, 1km outside of beam DD max range)

It is, sadly, many points more expensive, so you lose out on the cap wing

[noble zodiac]

many points more expensive
looks to me like that's the magazine depth mainly?

like youre getting an absolute shitfuckload more capacity than a torpcello unless im sorely mistaken

[glad aurora]

You're correct

but you also kind of need the magazine depth if you want to obliterate a capital in the same way, looks like

[noble zodiac]

rrright

because torps do enough damage to kill god whereas S2s, Do Not

[glad aurora]

regrettably 😔

I think I'm looking at a different target profile regardless (read: CLs and lower, occasionally Axfords if I have the luxury of time), but I'm going to miss the cap wing

[wet root]

Could do one launcher of torps for capitals and one of S2s for everything else

[glad aurora]

That probably comes out to four keystones and two sprinters worth of S2, and then 16 cork torps

Does 16 torps reliably kill an Axford... [fires up neb for the fifth time today]

[wet root]

Yes, if they hit anywhere other than the tip of the nose

[wary flame]

I was talking to Hermann about this and apparently BSSJ instead of SSJ basically guarantees hits, but I haven't tried that yet

[glad aurora]

He's correct, but you end up cutting your mag depth a fair amount because of how much extra it costs

I think it's 1.5x the cost of the SSJ version, so you go from 30 SSJ to 20 BSSJ

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'NG 2 Tower' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

Raincloud : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Missile Gun EWar PD Sensor]
   Nimbus : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Gun PD]
  Stratus : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Gun PD]
 Raindrop : 'Shuttle' class Clipper []
```This fleet uses 5 different missile types:
```yaml
             SGM-113 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
         SGM-210 Stoneburner : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [14pts]
SGM-210 Stoneburner Block II : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [10pts]
          SGM-270 False Idol : DIRECT - NONE - NONE [8pts]
      SGT-351 Ascalon Bronze : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [12pts]

[glad aurora]

either way, you save enough money going to corktorps for one launcher to buy a thoroughly kitted gun shuttle wing and an acap, so I can feel less bad about bringing this fleet and losing because only one other person on my team is playing for the caps (sorry, henka)

16 torps and 250 AP can execute even a Solomon if you get enough time alone with it, seems from testing (helpful to pos-fire the drives after the torps hit)

@wary flame BSSJ instead of SSJ is 14pts to 19pts, drops mag capacity to 20 CMD/BSSJ / 34 CMD/SAH

from 30/30

that's... honestly not bad, I may run that

[wary flame]

It's 40-48 more points on my capfleet, which is getting into the "hard to scrounge" territory but might be all right, I'll experiment

[glad aurora]

it's beautiful.

don't even need to bring a bellbird

• addendum to this: these were 2/5 mixed salvos of BSSJ to SAH

[wary flame]

Annoyingly MLS means my particular units can't bring only 1-2 BSSJs

[glad aurora]

Ah, that's going to be a screaming pain.

[tulip vault]

It probably would make the factions too uniform, but preset mixed loads which take longer to reload would be kinda cool

[bitter furnace]

you would have been pinged about it, several times, what do you mean we didn't tell you >.<

[supple sonnet]

[supple sonnet]

fuck supercorrelated spyglass keystones, we're making supercorrelated spyglass vauxhall and we cannot be stopped by any force on earth

[glad aurora]

but what does it do that the 4tc sDD doesn't

the vauxhall doesn't have guns that reach out to 11.5

[oak shell]

Have 6 C3 mounts, maybe?

[supple sonnet]

we can fit more shit on it

[glad aurora]

i'm going to strangle you, 17

[supple sonnet]

more interesting people than you have tried! :3c

we're naming this ship tophat gizmo, he is our darling son who can do no wrong and if anything bad ever happens to him we are going to kill everyone in this chat and then ourselves

[glad aurora]

i'm going to fire 28 S2s at him

[supple sonnet]

good luck he's behind 3 jammers

[wet root]

Mobility

Also can hold more missiles

[supple sonnet]

lark please tell us you do not hate our son tophat gizmo

unlike somebody in chat

[wet root]

I've actually been poking around at making my own Gizmo

[supple sonnet]

they're good to make

[wet root]

thinking about bringing it with a bombardment Axford or BB

[wet root]

I will note my lack of hate will not stop me from Mass Driving young Tophat the moment I see him

[supple sonnet]

😭

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Vauxhall Gizmo ACT(T)-CMDINTEL' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

       Tophat Gizmo : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Sensor EWar Missile PD]
Bethanne G. Stralka : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Gun Beam PD Sensor]
   Angelo H. Volkan : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Gun Beam PD Sensor]
      Vegan and Bow : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Sensor PD]
    Ellis U. Olivia : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Sensor PD]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - HOJ(RADAR) - HE FRAG [1pts]
         SGM-H-323 Stern Argument : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [23pts]

[radiant sable]

our son gizmo has every disease

wait hold on

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Vauxhall Gizmo ACT(T)-CMDINTEL' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

    Tophat G. Gizmo : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Sensor EWar Missile PD]
Bethanne G. Stralka : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Gun Beam PD Sensor]
   Angelo H. Volkan : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Gun Beam PD Sensor]
  Paulie S. Lizbeth : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Sensor PD]
    Ellis U. Olivia : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Sensor PD]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - HOJ(RADAR) - HE FRAG [1pts]
         SGM-H-323 Stern Argument : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [23pts]

[radiant sable]

name updates

[supple sonnet]

he has been re-christen'd to tophat g. gizmo

the g is gizmo

[glad aurora]

do you actually count as armed if you have no CIC

also: is the aux steering more resilient than a rcic

I am contemplating whether this is a development in acap tech I should copy

[supple sonnet]

oh we're 90% certain that the radar and stuff still works

still 10% chance we're wrong

not sure about if it counts as armed tho?

and no, it's not better than an rcic but it's better than a bcic and costs the same

[glad aurora]

yeah, counts as armed is the big one

because you can't actually fire the ceremonial arming missile

at the moment, I run my acaps as rcic+rdrive+ceremonial arming VLS, so I'm curious to see whether I can cut points somewhere there

[wary flame]

Aux steering boats can't use radar or elint and don't count as armed for contesting points, but if they have weapons they do count as armed for maintaining team offensive capability

[glad aurora]

Interesting. So the CIC's definitely worth it just for the point contest still.

[supple sonnet]

saved our bacon that was seconds before the game started

tyty

[supple sonnet]

gizmo sucks shit

disowning him

[wet root]

Does he at least get to keep his tophat?

[supple sonnet]

no

[wet root]

▶️ 😔

[quiet quiver]

Poor gizmo

[junior heron]

can't believe even 17 is on the gizmo hate train

[runic torrent]

hey guys heads up, till is planning on skipping boat night today because he's been absolutely blasted from a lack of sleep over the last few days

[tulip vault]

o7

[misty storm]

I should probably neb

u

lous

[misty storm]

is defensive SSJ/active decoys still necessary on ANS fleets?

also im still trying to figure out a third OSP fleet. something with intel and bloodhound/EWR tugs

[junior heron]

necessary, maybe not?
useful, absolutely

[misty storm]

ok

also, are interruption jammers still useful?

[junior heron]

yes

[wary flame]

CMD is almost the One True Seeker these days so yes, very good to have for both factions

[misty storm]

ah i see

whats typical for ships that have intel on OSP? isnt it prety cruicial?

[glad aurora]

intel is usually something you just throw into a monitor somewhere, I think?

[tulip vault]

I usually see it on CLNs or MD liners

[junior heron]

CLN contributing their 90 points of "you have 1 ship" tax to the team
Bulk LN
Nerd Box MD

[tulip vault]

though the backline intel monitor is a thing I have done

[glad aurora]

Ah, right, CLNs exist

[junior heron]

<@&942093958551588904> boat night is open!

[tulip vault]

if you don't bring intel on a CLN it's a high crime

[wary flame]

I dislike intel on CLNs because the hull tax is gargantuan and at that point you really desperately want to get as much missile out of it as possible

CLN rework when

[tulip vault]

CLN's should just have intel come baked in

that's the buff they need

[supple sonnet]

boat boat boat boat boat

[junior heron]

boat boat boat boat

[misty storm]

i dont know what to fill the rest in in terms of having something with intel, then a bloodhound tug and an EWR tug

[mint sinew]

That's the joy of OSP fleets, whatever you want that's not a CLN

E.g. my scoutiest fleet on OSP runs:

• EWR tug
• BH MN + Intel
• MD LN
• many cap shuttles

But many of my most used fleets start with the BH tug + EWR tug core

[misty storm]

is bloodhound monitor a good idea?

i tried it once and it didnt work well for me

[supple sonnet]

it works wonders for our mdln/railcello fleet

[misty storm]

mmm.

thinking bloodhound monitor with intel, EWR tug, gun liners?

not sure what caliber on the gun liners

whats good rn?

[supple sonnet]

as long as you give it the full 4x tc and an arr, it should be perfect

[glad aurora]

gun liners are 100/plas

[misty storm]

ok

[mint sinew]

IMO BH MN is best with MDs as they really benefit from the extra TQ while gun liners can live with just the 2 TCs on a tug

[misty storm]

yeah but

i wanna fit intel somewhere

[lime jungle]

'Absolutely Perfect Dog' is a 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor that costs 560 points.

[lime jungle]

'Absolutely Perfect Dog' is a 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor that costs 560 points.

[mint sinew]

Shove it in a bulker then

[supple sonnet]

take it. the absolutely perfect dog

[misty storm]

nice

sigh i guess i could do an MD liner

[mint sinew]

If you want a gun bulker fleet with Intel and the big spotter there is nothing wrong with that. I find it an inefficient point spend, but all the parts are good enough on their own it'll probably work

[misty storm]

anyone got a 100 plas bulker they could post

[mint sinew]

Like that's an extra 300ish points over my normal scout spend. So a fair chunk of points but also nothing going down 2 cap shuttles won't balance

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'An Abomination Most Exportable' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

 "Raisin" Brownies : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Missile Plasma Gun PD Sensor]
Pineapple Pancakes : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Missile Gun PD]
   Chicken Tartare : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Sensor Gun PD]
       Mayo Crisps : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Gun PD]
  Barrel Aged Fish : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Gun PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
CM-403 Punchy Active Decoy : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [5pts]
          SGM-111 Demister : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
    SGM-123 Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]

[glad aurora]

possibly the strongest gun shuttles to ever exist

[mint sinew]

More stock

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Lefty and righty' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

   Triforce : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun Plasma PD Sensor]
    Biforce : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun Plasma PD Sensor]
Staticforce : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [EWar Gun Sensor PD]
  Downforce : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Sensor Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
        SGM-111 Demini : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]
SGM-123 Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]

[lime jungle]

Fleet '3.0k - Triple Threat (Capper)' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

     Pliciwr Cawell Asennau : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun Plasma PD]
O Ysgolheigion a o Seintiau : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun Plasma PD]
                Rhosyn Marw : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Gun Rocket PD]
              Llygad y Dydd : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD Sensor]
               Llygad y Nos : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
  SGM-123 Aderyn Ryhfedd : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
SGM-132 Fflowlyn Block V : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]

[lime jungle]

Fleet '3.0k - Double Threat + Double Threat' is composed of 6 ships that cost 3000 points:

 Arfaeth Terfynol : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun PD]
 Ewyllys Cythraul : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Plasma Gun PD]
    Llygad y Dydd : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Sensor PD]
          Damwain : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD]
Anadl y Gorllewin : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD Sensor]
  Anadl y Dwyrain : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
  SGM-123 Aderyn Ryhfedd : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
SGM-132 Fflowlyn Block V : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'WIP' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

 Flat Cross : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun Plasma PD Sensor]
 Sassy Pack : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Rail PD]
Hoary Sands : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [PD]
  Blank Fax : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Sensor Gun PD]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-110 Block : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]

[misty storm]

this is what ive got so far

[oak shell]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EweM79WxugOzb-Rtkyzs4EXXKB5Qa2QS8qri_bDnReI/edit?usp=sharing

@tulip vault

[tulip vault]

for a mod who sees this, can we pin it?

[oak shell]

@quiet quiver pin for this document please

[junior heron]

it was quite tempting to try and play like this

[supple sonnet]

thoughts on our new son (recently adopted) tophat gizmo: we need to take his hat away and give him more missiles

or possibly guns?

[wet root]

The missiles seemed to do a lot of work

And you get the free programming channels

[sharp crow]

congrats gamer

[tulip vault]

I'm so shiny

I defeated tom in a rocket duel for this honour

[wary flame]

welcome to the commodore club

now we will spend even more time in lobbies

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'ANS Swap 1' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

            Kim Kitsuragi : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun Missile PD EWar]
Raphael Ambrosius Costeau : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun Missile PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGT-300 Wacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Tube : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [12pts]

[wary flame]

I found out how to make my 120 axfords more so

[glad aurora]

wasting disease++

[wary flame]

the power of the 450s have been concentrated into thirty heavy-warhead torpedoes, so I suppose it's more a rebalancing

need to get a good screenshot of the Atreides atomics vault at some point because of how much I want to make a Dune-named fleet full of HEKP

[glad aurora]

Hm

I wonder what a good Harkonnen-themed fleet would be

... probably just more torpcellos

[wary flame]

monitors

[wary flame]

torptug and two rocket shuttles overcome three beam DDs out of a fleet of four, then checkmate the last one when it tries to push the same angle

lost the two empty rocket shuttles but the DD was sat there exchanging 100mm and 120 fire with the empty torp and mine tugs holding that flank until it surrendered out of frustration

helps that I shot out all of the primary thrusters

[wicked mirage]

Well done!~

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Enies Lobby QRF' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

        Buster Call : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
           Gear Two : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Plasma Gun]
         Gear Three : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Plasma Gun]
Freeze-Freeze Fruit : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [EWar Gun PD]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-100 Cipher Pol 9 : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]

[lone violet]

misc and ash put me through my paces and i now Have A Fleet

time to die with it

[glad aurora]

next up: give eight an ANS fleet so I can go back to playing vauxhalls

[lone violet]

opportunity to think of more one piece names.... this works for me

[radiant sable]

we've slapped The Good Missiles™️ on our knuckleduster axford in some attempt to make our shipkiller fleet work

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Axford Shipkiller USE-EOEACT' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

The Fool : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun Missile PD Sensor]
The Star : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [PD Beam Sensor]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-H-338 🕊 : CRUISE - PSV(EO)/ACT(RADAR) - HEKP [47pts]
SGM-H-339 🦅 : CRUISE - PSV(EO)/ACT(RADAR) - HEKP [70pts]

[radiant sable]

we have officially run out of interesting names to use, so now our bssj missiles are going to be doves and our cluster decoy missiles are going to be eagles

[wary flame]

I admit I saw the dove icon as "dolphin"

I think you can probably get away with only regular decoy, more chaff and less actdecoy

but at this point I have generally stopped using actdecoy altogether because I am more confident in my ability to mash the radar off button, so that's just me

[radiant sable]

that's,,,,,,, probably fair

act decoys have saved our bacon more times than we can count, tho, and it makes up for the general lack of jamming we have too

[tulip vault]

I still bring 3 because they seem mildly more consistent in drawing off arad, since a lot of arad really likes to still track me with radar off for some reason

[wet root]

I should bring them because sometimes I don't manage to kill my FCR order in time

But I'm greedy

[glad aurora]

I just bring 2-4 depending on points elsewhere. Much more important not to drop below 15 chaff on a capital ship.

[tulip vault]

<@&942093958551588904> pub?

[oak shell]

hmmmmm I am tempted

[supple sonnet]

we'll be home in ~an hour

[wary flame]

I can pub in 5-10 minutes

[tulip vault]

I can do 5-10 but sadly I must be gone in an hour

or well

I can't start a game in an hour

[oak shell]

I will join in the imminent game

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Egghead Island QRF' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Maintaining The Agenda : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Gun Missile PD EWar Sensor]
          Top Priority : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-H-300 Joyboy : DIRECT - CMD/ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [25pts]

[lone violet]

second one, thank you ash very cool

[supple sonnet]

> joyboy

[junior heron]

@sharp crow

[glad aurora]

Y'all in game right now?

[tulip vault]

yes

[glad aurora]

Ah, welp. Ping me when you hop out.

[tulip vault]

@glad aurora

[lone violet]

one piece ‼️

[tulip vault]

aw, rats, everyone's ceased boats

the thing took way less time than I expected

[glad aurora]

I could be persuaded to go back into boating

[junior heron]

i could also hop back

gonna make some lunch though

[tulip vault]

cool cool

@junior heron why don't you ping me when you're back and I will hop on

[wary flame]

I can come back, I had to just apply for a boring retail job

only took me ten minutes

[junior heron]

alright that's like 3 people to ping so

<@&942093958551588904> round 2?

[dire harness]

boat :0

[bitter furnace]

what am I watching

the duel of the creatures

also sorry I'm just here to watch for a little bit, don't have time to game rn

[wicked mirage]

Buh!

Gambo!

[noble zodiac]

aight

fuck it

i'll be in to spectateulous while i poke at some other stuff

(then join once i finish that)

actually probably not i need to eat food eventually

[lone violet]

if y'all are still on in a while i may hop on

[bitter furnace]

unironically I would watch a youtube channel that's just Misc spectating ensigns

[noble zodiac]

^^^

[wicked mirage]

@glad aurora

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'The Jar' is composed of 1 ship which costs 3000 points:

Ruby's Very Own Cookie Jar : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Missile Sensor PD EWar]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-267 Tossing Cookies : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [9pts]

[hidden echo]

Once I make myself breakfast I reckon I ought to get moving and make another fleet or some such.

[lone violet]

he even types like verum, chat

[misty storm]

for a 100/plas turrets liner, i know 5/3 is the proper setup but the asymmetry bugs me, but is 6/2 or 4/4 the next second best?

i run into power problems trying to do 4/4 with my current setup

[supple sonnet]

4/4 was the standard before 5/3, 6/2 is from how i understand it too light on the plasma.

[misty storm]

ok

does anyone have an example of a 4/4 setup?

[dire harness]

Neb Geographic

[toxic scaffold]

This is our plas/100 fleet, but it also has roof guns

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Testulas-Tripple-Threat' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Parlament of Fools : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun Plasma Sensor Rocket EWar PD]
 Inequality Street : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun Plasma Sensor Rocket EWar PD]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-106 Ember : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]

[supple sonnet]

you probably could take off the lyerbirds and fill he AMM boxes up, it's a Mod that we do have planed but no one has done yet if you wanted to reduce there power consumption

[misty storm]

i figured it out although an ereg might be better than a second rcc

actually, its not

huh

[mint sinew]

Preferring RCC is a big strength of T81s

[mint sinew]

4/4 and 6/2 have different primary missions IMO.
4/4 is a capital ship hunter while 6/2 is an anti-light ship that can punch up a bit (like a 250mm Vauxhall)

[misty storm]

i see

[tulip vault]

I think the 6/2 has a little bit more punch up than that, but it certainly can't solo capital ships without good positioning

I mean all bulkers need good positioning

but yknow, better positioning

[wet root]

The goodliest positioning

[mint sinew]

110% positioning

[tulip vault]

simply fire an entire salvo of he-hc into the plasmaed drive section every fight

simple as

[mint sinew]

But yeah, the plas/100mm bulkers are really interesting to design because you have a lot of flexibility to control which targets you want to be good at

[glad aurora]

what if there was a CL with all pure-ACT S3H called the Missile Launcher and a CL with CMD/EO S3H called the Hittile Launcher

[wary flame]

18 mine hits

[summer shadow]

That poor crew.

[wary flame]

two DDs dead, one CH crippled and forced to burn every restore to fix the ship back to orange

the mine tug is king fuck of tug mountain for that game

[summer shadow]

Oh wow.

[wicked mirage]

I've been thinking Plasma/450 is pretty sleeper strong against Capitals and especially Solomons.

If you can strip armor and get 450 HE to go in cleanly on the side it donks Capitals real quick.

Part of the reason Sollies are so crazy tanky against 450 is that you basically have to use only AP most of the time.

[mint sinew]

I have to agree. I've been running that fleet of mine with a PLN and a cursed 450/250/100 bulker to great success.

I'm still not sold on going all in on 450mm, but some 450HE does a lot to hollow out the insides of capitals. I have to assume it is something to do with breaking DT even on clustered compartments

[mint sinew]

You also don't even need to fully strip the armour. Even a long range plasma hit will take out enough armour 450HE pens reliably (in that spot)

[quiet quiver]

Hmm. Tempts me to run 450s with a plasma monitor buddy that I’m more comfortable pushing forwards

[mint sinew]

The idea of a plasma/450 monitor or two alongside a more conventional bulker is interesting too. Though I'm not convinced that it will be at all cost efficient

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Abominable Devices' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

Pyroclast : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun Plasma PD EWar]
   Phobos : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Gun Plasma Sensor]
   Deimos : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Gun Plasma Sensor]
     Eris : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [EWar Gun PD]
   Spatha : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Ewar Missile Gun PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
       SGM-113 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGT-351 Ascalon Bronze : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [12pts]

[glad aurora]

This is my iteration on that particular idea

(no budget for rocket containers or decoys 😔 )

[tulip vault]

<@&942093958551588904> anyone feel like a boat?

[tulip vault]

@wicked mirage I'm playing against someone bringing one of your fleets

if I lose I'm blaming it on you

[wary flame]

the only fleet I export is tugboats

nothing but tugs

need to make more strange fleets I can give people

I'm in Eri 1 if anyone wants one game of pillars

[tulip vault]

I'm just wrapping up my game

[wary flame]

should have time then, this lobby is pretty dead

[glad aurora]

Give me a couple minutes and I'll be in

[tulip vault]

okay I haven't lost but it was annoying as hell

I like this design

[noble zodiac]

[tug foot clamping noise]
YOURE LISTENING TO
[C53 firing sound]
MISC FM
[mine deployment sound]
WHERE WE EXPORT NOTHING BUT TUGS, TUGS, AND MORE TUGS
[tug engine burn noise]
THIS AINT YOUR SPRINTER MAIN'S STATION
[imagine dragons: radioactive starts playing]

[wary flame]

we're going somewhere else because neither me nor tron could stand our team's lineups

[tulip vault]

(how were there 4 surrender cls)

[quiet quiver]

Wait 4?

[tulip vault]

yeah, one fleet with 2, two fleets with 1

[quiet quiver]

Hmm, IDK if that's a true surrender CL and not just torphall

[wicked mirage]

Amazing xD heck yeah did you win?

[tulip vault]

yeah

[wicked mirage]

Oh! Thank you ^^

[wicked mirage]

Awesome! Well done

Which fleet of mine was it?

[tulip vault]

the uh

cookie jar one I think

the orbital ocello

[wicked mirage]

Oh fun xD

Orbital cookie drop incoming!

[wary flame]

interesting rail array

they did 15k so I can't really fault them, but I admit I did not expect double rail BB

[wicked mirage]

Wow lol

[glad aurora]

I have absolutely no idea how they got a rail BB inside 1500

I did that once and I think they just had a rcic and a rapid

[noble zodiac]

i mean that's probably how they got the rail BB inside 1500

[glad aurora]

hm. maybe I should've just pointed some 450 AP at them and killed them instantly. Shame.

[quiet quiver]

I wonder if each ship breaks 35 RPM

[supple sonnet]

iwrc ash didn't manage it

our record of 69.33rpm still stands (we think)

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Suffering' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

An Abomination Against Men : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Rail Sensor]
An Abomination Against God : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Rail]

[glad aurora]

ah, that's what I did

[quiet quiver]

squints at these drive setups

I'm pretty sure you could just triple reactor single drive, and be up 10 points each from no micro reactor

And that also lets you put a large ereg there instead of 2 smalls

[wet root]

Or you could drop the Frontline and upgrade to RCICs on each

[glad aurora]

ah yes, the radar BBs that literally cannot see anything

[wet root]

Radar is overrated

Particularly when you have no softkill to use with it

[glad aurora]

56.42 RPM

[wet root]

Tbh that's not half bad

[glad aurora]

theoretically

this can get up to 56.64 RPM if I remove all DC

[wet root]

Actually I missed the Bullseye, if you dropped that and fixed the drive config you could get RCICs, keep the frontline, and even splurge for a chaff box

[wet root]

A single MD Monitor, looking at the biggest radar sig it's ever seen:

[quiet quiver]

If you cheap out for a small drive that's 5 more points

[wet root]

Big drives are 15 for the normal ones? TIL

[glad aurora]

you mistake me, lark

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Suffering' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

An Abomination Against Men : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Rail]
An Abomination Against God : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Rail]

[glad aurora]

I just bought more eregs

[mint sinew]

You are far enough into diminishing returns that buying a Mount Gyro would probably get you more effective RPM than you gain in theory from additional ERegs.

Every second you save bearing to target is another rail round downrange

[glad aurora]

🤔

(and yes, the first small ereg after all the regular ereg slots are filled up is +0.22 RPM)

I also just want to say, for the record, that a small drive is 5pts cheaper and technically provides better performance

that said, I have to get 10pts back from somewhere...

[quiet quiver]

Because it makes your ship slightly lighter and therefore your thrust does more?

[glad aurora]

Correct

Better acceleration time by 0.04 seconds

[quiet quiver]

And a whole second off the 180 turn!

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Suffering' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

An Abomination Against Men : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Rail]
An Abomination Against God : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Rail]

[wet root]

Someday I am going to play against these in Boat Night and rack up another "2 missiles, 2 BBs" game

[glad aurora]

says you. no one's ever going to be able to kill them with that reinforced magazine

[wet root]

eyes that CIC with malicious intent

What is their DR at anyway? They're not entirely empty, so presumably they have some

[quiet quiver]

Like 25%

[glad aurora]

see, I could give them DC, but that'd mean lowering my fire rate by...

[wet root]

Oh wait I just noticed the most recent version doesn't even have a single rapid

[glad aurora]

.13 on one ship

[wet root]

So even hitting the mag kills them since they can't un-red it

[glad aurora]

which is, as I'm sure we can agree, unacceptable

I'm here for a good time, not a long one

(in reality I did go back and swap a big ereg for a small ereg on one ship and take off the radar to get a rapid on both, but I know I'm a coward for it)

[wet root]

Fair lol

W.r.t good not long time

[tulip vault]

you can draw ammo from red mags I'm pretty sure

[wet root]

Oh wait I think you're right

So as long as nothing ever catches fire you're good

Though do fires even do enough damage to break DT on rmags?

[quiet quiver]

Maybe not but they can break a basic CIC

[wet root]

It's possible it could just be on fire but the ship is too sparse for it to spread anywhere

[tulip vault]

they can start crits

so if you catch fire eventually the ship will explode

[wet root]

Ah right, so eventually a mag cookoff

An RCIC however could I think just burn merrily forever though

[tulip vault]

well it would never grey

but it would red

[mint sinew]

Pyrope pointed this out to me the other day: fires can't break DT on anything

Every component in the game has a DT > 5% of its max HP

[wicked mirage]

This is a cool randomly generated name lol

[wicked mirage]

Oh yeah, this is true for better or worse.

I think the thing with the biggest disparity between DT and HP in the game is the T81 Plasma Turret with 300 HP and a DT of 15, and since 15 is equal to 5% of 300 it doesn't break from fires because damage has to exceed DT I believe.

[wet root]

It does have to

[glad aurora]

update: I thought Ice Crystal was a long-range map

it is not

[wicked mirage]

heh

It takes a while to travel around

but yea the overall distance isn't that much

[wet root]

The crew:

[wicked mirage]

xD

[wet root]

Ice Crystal? Is that new?

[glad aurora]

this is somewhat problematic for rail BBs, as it turns out

[tulip vault]

it is very old

and bad

it's just a ball

[quiet quiver]

Originally posted May 31, 2022; updated Sep 12, 2023

Is it Worse Caltrop?

[tulip vault]

significantly

it's bigger and has no cover

[wet root]

I've had 65km travelled on an Axford on Caltrop before

[tulip vault]

I hope you liked that game misc

that was really something

[glad aurora]

that said, it probably wouldn't matter because my team brought

• a surrender CL
• gun BB
• tf oak
• beam BB

[wet root]

The question is, does "old and bad" mean I shouldn't add it to my server?

And the map rotation ofc

[tulip vault]

yes

[glad aurora]

the enemy team, by contrast, brought

• capfleet
• MN swarm
• plasma/100 bulkers
• plasma/100 bulkers
• 450 bulkers

[wet root]

I mean, Oops All Capitals ain't awful nowadays, they just needed a cap fleet instead of surrender CL

[glad aurora]

Indeed so

[quiet quiver]

I got curious and looked up the top 10 most popular map mods on the workshop

Top 1-5: Broken Bones, Broken Heart, Broken Spirit, Broken Trust, Broken Bloodline

A solid start

And then for 6-10 we have: Luna, The Ganymede Incident, The Maw, Nucleus, and The Belt

[wary flame]

I actually quite like Ice Crystal, it's the best big sphere map

but that's not saying much

[quiet quiver]

Luna is a surface map, and the only terrain in Nucleus is a single orb

[wary flame]

nucleus is the worst big sphere map

[quiet quiver]

Really surprised to see these above like Honeycomb, Arroyo, and Salar

[junior heron]

those are older, i wonder if that's why they're more popular

[wet root]

Is that most popular all time, or this week?

[junior heron]

where the playerbase has dropped off

[quiet quiver]

This week

[junior heron]

oh

huh

[wet root]

I suspect that's just small sample size then

[quiet quiver]

Maybe

[wet root]

I wonder if I add 1 to each map's subscription count every time I spin up the server

[wary flame]

the ones on the modded map ERI servers are probably suppressed because nobody has to have them downloaded permanently

you just get them from the server

and I'm not sure whether that counts once per player, once per server or not at all

[quiet quiver]

Yeah maybe

[mint sinew]

Dumb idea: stick the squishy internals in the bridge. Not like you are bow tanking, so just let everything that goes to centre mass miss. What are they going to do? Structure break you?

[glad aurora]

excellent line of thought...

[wet root]

IIRC ships choose a random point in the target to fire at. Not sure precisely how this is determined/how it works with track accuracy

Or maybe it's missiles that do that?

[mint sinew]

No, random aimpoints are a thing for guns/beams too

[tulip vault]

I don't know if it is a thing for missiles actually

[glad aurora]

no, here's the thing

they're going to try pos-firing the center of mass to kill the CIC

not knowing I have cleverly moved the CIC

[mint sinew]

Pretty sure the track aiming algo is something like:

• pick a random point on the target
• add a random offset for positional error
• estimate lead from velocity (+- err)
• pew

[wet root]

That sounds like a lot of complexity, when there's a clearly-superior solution right there:

[glad aurora]

(I don't know if the bridge is more or less armored than the center of mass, but this seemed funnier)

[wet root]

Simply butt-tank with a big Rdrive

[glad aurora]

Rdrive? Those cost points

points I can spend on eregs

[wet root]

Makes sense

Yeah but they have like 70 DT

[glad aurora]

I will be 100 with you, my sibling in Christ

If anything bigger than a shuttle starts shooting me, I am already dead

[mint sinew]

Because of how chaining multiple random numbers work, this causes the most shots to fall in the middle. (Assuming they had a decent shot to begin with)

[wet root]

As long as you have an RCIC and a rapid I'm pretty sure a Tug can't really do anything to you

The 250 can technically pen but I don't thing it will ever hit in the same spot enough to actually break your CIC

[tulip vault]

a tug with a 250 casemate can grey turrets

also, missiles

[wet root]

Well yeah but they're dead to any missiles from anything

[wet root]

That's why you have two rail Sollies, one can visual track fire the Tug to prevent it from hovering in the blind spot long enough to pos fire off your guns

[glad aurora]

Rcic? Rdrive? That's an entire ereg! 0.3 RPM!

[wet root]

True you never know when those extra five rail shots in a match might make the difference

[wary flame]

how much of your DR do you actually have?

[tulip vault]

brilliant

I love to fire my railguns on visual

you'd be further ahead trying to dead reckon a posfire I bet

[wet root]

I should practice dead reckoning my MD shots more

Always fun hitting a Sollie at 20k off an EWR track

It might not do anything but it spooks 'em good

[tulip vault]

I've been doing it a lot with plasma recently

[wet root]

Ooh fancy using it usefully

[tulip vault]

it does something if it hits and has such a nuts spread that it tends to find something

kinda useful when you're jammed or the radar-less throngler has rounded the corner first

[wet root]

Makes sense

And if it misses it's a warning shot

[tulip vault]

exactly

shot across the bow

[glad aurora]

~22%

[rigid bison]

wouldn't the ereg-rail BBs be a near-perfect target for containers?

[wet root]

They have no PD, no DC, and no RCIC - they are a perfect target for literally any missile

But yes backpack containers in particular would love to meet them

[glad aurora]

They have RCICs now

much to my disappointment 😔

also, personally, I'd just dodge the containers

[wet root]

How many Raiders does a BB need to do that, I wonder

[noble zodiac]

funnily enough i think a max raider BB literally hits the buffing cap

on linthrust

[wet root]

I think each Raider should double linthrust

[tulip vault]

I agree

it should also sig bloom like rails do

[wet root]

Now I want to make a mod that inverts space drag, so it increases your speed by a percentage instead of decreases

Make sure you stay below a certain speed or your engines won't be strong enough to stop you from sailing into the abyss at ever-greater speeds

[noble zodiac]

lmfao

[wary flame]

<@&942093958551588904> boat

[tulip vault]

unfortunately I'm playing a game that's exactly like nebulous in every way

[glad aurora]

I will be able to boat in about a half hour (and I will probably be bringing the most cursed BBs)

[junior heron]

consider Misc

we need a 5th

and Dota 2 is, like tron said, exactly like Nebulous in every way

[glad aurora]

actually, never mind, I have been freed unexpectedly early

[wicked mirage]

buh!

[dire harness]

boat :0

[wary flame]

@noble zodiac made by Mechanought on the neb server

[noble zodiac]

YOOOO

[wicked mirage]

Holy crap lol

That's incredible Misc xD so Mecha made this? Wow.

[quiet quiver]

I just realized that the official part picture for the RL36 has it mounted on an Ocello

[quiet quiver]

... The E20 lighthouse is also shown off in a Ocello's c4 slot

[noble zodiac]

lmfao

yeag

[oak shell]

Canon wasting disease

[quiet quiver]

The Bellbird is in mount 6 of an Ocello (terrible arcs), the Lyrebird is in the ventral c4 (wasting disease again)

A few OSP weapons have no distinct hull features visible, but then there's the Grazer which has bridge windows visible that I can't ID

Oh wait the Grazer is on the tug from before the tug had geometry changes

And then T20 shows off monitor wasting disease, it's in a c4 where you could fit a T30

[dense fractal]

<@&942093958551588904> hey im new to this and idk what to do good/necessary could i get some help?

[tulip vault]

Have you done the tutorials?

[dense fractal]

yeah

both

[tulip vault]

Aren’t there more than two? It’s been a long time

[dense fractal]

its more that i looked at the fleet editor and now im scared

[tulip vault]

Ah well

The game does come with some pretty well designed starter fleets

So you don’t have to actually deal with the fleet editor right away

[dense fractal]

oh ok 👍

[past light]

There's lots of fleets posted in this channel too, usually with some discssion about how to use them.

[dense fractal]

thanks, i got this game yesterday and finished the tutorials this morning so i have no idea what im doing so far, but thanks ill check that out

[wary flame]

one mine tug and one torp tug soloed this poor guy

CA went from fine to instantly dead in under a second from fifteen simultaneous mine hits, something incredibly satisfying about "damage repaired: 0"

something interesting I saw: four of my mines missed a CL, swerved off at the last second, and it hadn't popped chaff and didn't have a jammer in arc

but I did have some rocket shuttles nearby with a lyrebird going in preparation for their own attack run

mines might be able to be jammed by anyone, I'll have to test it

[glad aurora]

damage repaired: 0 also means that they didn't know how to use flank speed on a CH

stop bullying the blueberries

[sharp crow]

turns out they didn't bring any dc teams

[glad aurora]

new strat unlocked?

[wary flame]

nah, six restores and nine teams, just instantly greyed everything

[sharp crow]

aww

[wary flame]

mines are nasty

launching a torp ambush as the mines are flying is incredibly stylish, by the way

ANS convoy set upon by fedaykin tugs

[glad aurora]

the one defender team who's fallen asleep after I did a 20km flank, seeing the sprint mine waking up directly into my drive section:

[glad aurora]

this is also one of the things that made me really want to get into Conquest testing

my missile vauxhall heart hungers for convoy lives

[quiet quiver]

I know OSP isn't in conquest yet but I really wonder how the nature of their hulls as coming from civilian manufacture is gonna come into play

Can we drum up fleets in a hurry by commandeering ships, providing quick hulls while instantly stressing our own supply lines?

Will liners have similar drive plumes to civilian convoys to long-range sensors, disguising them until they engage and leaving intel players to make snap decisions?

[glad aurora]

I also wouldn't be surprised if mines could be deployed on the map layer, or if making LNs out of civilian ships meant that they could be produced significantly faster/cheaper than an equivalent tonnage of ANS hulls

There's many, many routes to give OSP an identity back in Conquest

[quiet quiver]

I actually don't expect long-term mining

[glad aurora]

Not long-term, no - that's explained away as a STABLE thing

But something that lasts two turns or so, yeah, I can see it

[bitter furnace]

Welcome to Neb! After the tutorials, if you don't want to hop straight into multiplayer, the next step is to face the AI. The AI is a bit barebones and works best as an opponent under specific conditions: 1 vs 1, on the Cliff map, in the Annihilation mode. Any other settings are liable to get you a less fun skirmish match as the AI won't cooperate or it will take you a while to find the enemy. Scroll through the starter fleets and pick something that looks cool to play, then pick any of the starters from the other faction for the AI to use, and go fight! The difficulty ratings on the starters are difficulty to control, not difficulty to fight, by the way. You can also try building your own fleet, or make a copy of a starter you like and modify it to your playstyle. See what works, what doesn't work, how best to utilize the controls, etc. Then you can hop in multiplayer when you feel ready

[wet root]

It would make sense, since they don't have any IFF once triggered

[wary flame]

they don't get shot by friendly hardkill, but evidently that's different

will have to test it in the range

[quiet quiver]

Obviously I should be playing MMTs and not 450 bulkers

(It's not even an MMT, it's an LRT tug that carries 9 missiles for killing flankers)

[tulip vault]

I mean if you want my opinion you probably should lol

I want the 450 liner to be good but it just feels so weak right now

[rigid bison]

anyone down for a pubulous?

[wet root]

I will be later, but right now I'm stuck at workulous

[wary flame]

bragging(2)

[glad aurora]

we all do a little bragging sometimes

[wary flame]

bragging (3)

40k capfleet game, mine tug gets a 3k BB and someone else's jam sprinter, torptug gets two beamstones, MMTs just tear into all and sundry

[quiet quiver]

Balcon: "CLN is unfair because it can delete multiple fleets from a team"
Misc playing tugs: "Bet."

[summer shadow]

"Those tugs need to die! They need to die, Admiral!"

"I understand. High Command, has assured me that a solution is being done to address this menace."

[mint sinew]

I don't love this complaint about the CLN on principle. Most combat fleets have the capability to do so if played well.

We've all seen the 20k+ damage beamstones but you don't see those same people arguing to reduce the ceiling of their performance

[quiet quiver]

Yeah I agree, it’s a bad complaint

But also you def see calls for beam nerfs too this season, there’s probably some overlap

[wary flame]

so it turns out Neb has been on minimum graphics quality this entire time

I was depriving myself of slightly crisper destroyer model lighting for hundreds of hours

[olive blade]

hahhaahha

[junior heron]

lol

[past light]

skill issue 😉

[tulip vault]

@wary dirge anyone up for one pub?

oh shit not again

sorry

<@&942093958551588904>

[quiet quiver]

Sure

[quiet quiver]

Forgot to ping, and yes

[wary flame]

@glad aurora in VC

[glad aurora]

ah, that's the ping I missed

[wicked mirage]

Another banger from the random ship name generator

[noble zodiac]

🅱️eme

[wary flame]

halfway there baby

[glad aurora]

I am TIRED of losing scoutwar, I want anything with an EWR DEAD

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Anti-scout action' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

    Bin Raw : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun Missile PD]
      Royal : 'Raines' class Frigate [Missile Sensor]
Dingy Award : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Sensor PD EWar]
 Chard Said : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 6 different missile types:
```yaml
             SGM-101 Hobgoblin : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
    SGM-120 Carian Retaliation : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]
         SGM-H-213 Scout-B-Gon : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[ARAD(RADAR)] - HE SHAPED [14pts]
SGM-H-213 Scout-B-Gon Block II : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/HOJ(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [12pts]
    SGM-H-390 Warglaive Bronze : DIRECT - CMD/PSV(WAKE) - HEKP [40pts]
        SGT-351 Ascalon Bronze : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [12pts]

[glad aurora]

the general plan is to make things that can't be softkilled with the resources a tug or shuttle has available, which manifests in the form of two SACT/HOJ and three SACT/[ARAD] missiles per volley thrown at an EWR strobe

[wet root]

You probably want CMD or EO for that, both of those seeker combos die to the default radar off/pop chaff

[glad aurora]

Ech, EO is expensive.

Besides, does it actually do anything against an EWR strobe?

[wary flame]

EO finds any ships that intersect the cone

HOJ/Act mixed with Act/[EO] is probably the good stuff there

arad/act if you want to be fancy

[glad aurora]

Hm.

[wet root]

Cheap | Softkill resistant
Choose one

(Or bring Gales)

[wicked mirage]

Hey guys! I present: 2 Escort Shuttles piloting a big, blind, incredibly fast and killy JRR Bulker around like a Jaeger from Pacific Rim xD also an AWACS MN and a capping Shuttle for good measure.

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Royal Pumpkin (FastLN+Intel)' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

      Royal Pumpkin : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun Missile Sensor]
Princess Candy Corn : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [PD Missile Sensor]
  Dancing Scarecrow : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD]
     Little Lantern : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD]
     Playful Spirit : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 6 different missile types:
```yaml
                CM-466 SKELETIZER : CRUISE - CMD/ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [8pts]
        CM-S-431 GRAND STRAWBERRY : DIRECT - CMD/ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [41pts]
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
                  SGM-171 Esunaga : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [5pts]
        SGM-177 Orichalcum Shield : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [9pts]
             SGT-365 PUMPKIN BOMB : DIRECT - CMD/ARAD(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [12pts]

[tulip vault]

Personally I’m all in on misc’s fishtail missile frigates

[wicked mirage]

(The Bulker pulls 50 m/s and has 4 AE + RCC for giga DPS)

[tulip vault]

I’m buying stocks in misc inc

[wicked mirage]

lol

[wet root]

If you put the EWR on the cheek mount you could get another pair of containers on the MN

[tulip vault]

I am horrified by this blind bulker

[wet root]

(I just like the cursed cheek EWRs)

[tulip vault]

I do think blind bulkers are very valid and good sometimes but the fifteen hundred point one

Concerns me

[wet root]

50m/s is terrifying

[wicked mirage]

As long as its Seeing-Eye Shuttles stay alive or it gets a track from the MN it can see!

It has a backup antenna too just in case lol

[tulip vault]

I don’t deny it has ways to see lol

Just remarkably self… insufficient? Whatever the opposite of self sufficient is

For a battlecruiser of a bulk liner

[wicked mirage]

True lol

[tulip vault]

Also, woe, hangup be upon ye

[wet root]

Does it launch the containers with the torps to provide decoy cover? I love that

[wicked mirage]

Like a blind kung-fu master with a bazooka, he just hears them, and then blows them up.

[wet root]

Tbf a hangup doesn't really help if the shuttles are hugging it

Which I assume they should be for PD

[tulip vault]

Ships inside the same hangup cone can’t talk to each other no mater what anymore

[wet root]

I still need to try Gale MNs with BSSJ containers

[wicked mirage]

Yeah, Hangups just murder this fleet lol

Although the Bulker has a Pinpoint at least xD

[wet root]

Oh right I forgot about that

Which is embarrassing given i have a fleet designed to abuse it

[tulip vault]

Simply drive into visual and lock them with the *checks notes* 450 liner

[tulip vault]

Lol

Happens to the best of us

I need to bring more hangups

They make my throngler so sad so often

[wicked mirage]

Fortunately Hangups are the Blackjacks of ANS and no one except smart crazy people bring them.

[wet root]

We need a 450 carronade, with like 10x spread but excellent fire rate

[wicked mirage]

Oh my lol

[tulip vault]

I stand by that mazer should just double 450 liner’s output and see

[wicked mirage]

Yeah Hangups are lowkey amazing when combined with Blankets.

[tulip vault]

Maybe it’d put them in line with the throngling

[wet root]

Same, I should really just be sticking blanket/hangup/defender Sprinters next to all my ships

[wicked mirage]

I honestly think 450 Bulkers are pretty fine?

They can alpha strike with AP against capitals pretty well.

Faced a pair earlier today that had a bunch of RCC's and kept peeking and dumping on me from 9km away on Styx, and I lost that game x.x

It was very difficult to fight in a BB

But yeah 450's have a lot of range and frontloaded damage if not DPS.

[tulip vault]

I think my thing with the damage they do is that, in a long range gun brawl, I think ANS is still just better, and 450 liners are really clumsy up close

They are really good at floating out in space and shooting shit, but so are ANS capital ships, and those aren’t squishy in the same way

[wicked mirage]

Yeah that's fair, ANS definitely wins the extended slugfest

[tulip vault]

Yeah, of course OSP has the excellent peek and shoot

[wicked mirage]

Oh yeah

[tulip vault]

That certainly is really quite strong, but has its own flaws imo

[wicked mirage]

RCC's are pretty much OSP exclusive tech

and they're good lol

[tulip vault]

Yeah RCC’s are excellent

Love em

[olive blade]

I think in 450 duels ANS having the super spyglass is really powerful too

[tulip vault]

I just think that 450 and plasma need roughly the same level of good positioning to work, but plasma just gets more payoff from it

[tulip vault]

Im not that sure about this

[wicked mirage]

Yeah for sure, Correlated Spyglass is how they fight 450 + Bloodhound. I've found that Railguns and MD's targeting whatever has the super spyglass is a good counter though. Both Rails and MD's will break DT on Track Correlators in any Hull in the game.

[tulip vault]

The 4TC spyglass devices are very fragile, they’re great when not getting shot at

But otherwise they’re a bit made of paper

[quiet quiver]

Mostly just the TCs

[tulip vault]

Yeah just the tc’s

But you are left with a good chunk less of a ship when those fall out

[wicked mirage]

Definitely, however what I've been seeing is Axfords or Sollies with 4TC Spyglass orbit dodging with Raider/Whip while bow tanking to shut down long range 450 counterbattery fire.

[tulip vault]

Yeah orbit dodging changes things a lot

For sure

[wicked mirage]

Rail Ocellos are secretly cracked against 4TC Spyglass ships.

They can't be bow-tanked like MD's can.

and still break DT, while also causing all sorts of power problems and fire damage.

[olive blade]

I think rail ocellos really have a good place to fit like 1 in a team

[tulip vault]

Yeah I agree

[wicked mirage]

Yeah, just 1 is all you need in a team.

[olive blade]

but its tough to fit all the bits in an osp team

[tulip vault]

Much in the same way I do think 3 rail dds is a good investment for ans 80% of the time

Probably not on pillars, but on real maps which are good

[glad aurora]

15 rail DDs

no more, no less

[wicked mirage]

I recommend a 2x Mk81, 1x Mk66 Ocellos with a Radar/PD support setup to escort allied Bulkers.

Then you can pull triple duty which it pretty worth it IMO.

[olive blade]

lmao I can never remember the mk numbers, thats 2 rail 1 gun right?

[wicked mirage]

Get tracks and keep them thru jamming, shoot down missiles, and counter enemy TC Spyglass ships all at the same time.

[wicked mirage]

Yeah 2 Rail 1 450

[glad aurora]

arad/act breaks down, unfortunately

[olive blade]

I think thats pretty reasonable

[wicked mirage]

Want me to cook up a build? It can be tricky to get the power figured out.

[glad aurora]

gives me a "this thing'll stage as soon as it detects a target" warning

[olive blade]

I have never been the biggest fan of mixing things for buff module reasons, but I'm coming around to it in some situations

nah I can figure that bit

[wicked mirage]

Alrighty, I recommend going for double Boosted Reactor, and you'll proly need a PCC somewhere too if you want Parallax/Floodlight/Aurora as wel.

[olive blade]

yeah thats about what I'd expect

1 450 actually saves a bit of power at least

[wicked mirage]

The top of the center pancake stack is pretty safe for a PCC if you bow tank.

[wary flame]

it'll always do that, cost of doing business with hybrids

S3H can get some pretty generous stage ranges though

[glad aurora]

ended up going with a mix of SACT/[EO] and HOJ/SACT

3-2, should kill tugs pretty competently

(I ended up launching most of them at bulkers last game, because the tugs were sitting in an Ocello + flak bubble and they had no scouts anyway)

[wicked mirage]

Also, I would suggest trying to fit in at least 2 big Eregs for the 2 Mk81's, that basically gets you a third Mk81 vs stock RPM. The more Eregs you can fit the better, just try to have a Floodlight to help with Jamming with Parallax+Bullseye, and about 3-4 Auroras with maybe 1-2 Pavises for PD. A backpack VLS-1 with anti-hybrid AMM's and chaff is really good too.

1-2 Ammo Elevators for the 450 will help too.

It's a lot, but getting the mix just right will pay off really really well I think.

It's a very tight squeeze tho

[olive blade]

that does seem like a tight squeeze

[glad aurora]

further update: OSP refuses to feed me scouts, this is very sad

that said, S2H still mess up bulkers

you just lose the first three salvos to AMMs

[quiet quiver]

Me, packing 20 AMMs per bulker:

[glad aurora]

That's actually a good question

Do three salvos of five eat all 20

[wet root]

On the one hand, you don't get to eat scouts. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure the win probability against OSP without scouts is rather high.

[quiet quiver]

I expect the 20 AMMs to eat about 10 hybrids total

[glad aurora]

correct, we just rolled over them

[quiet quiver]

But gosh sending 15 hybrids per bulker seems expensive once you include hull costs

[glad aurora]

S2H, not S3H

Much cheaper

[quiet quiver]

Oh 5 HEI S2H probably won't kill but it'll certainly hurt a lot

[glad aurora]

I've got 45 of them, so I figure I can afford to just start tossing them around once all the scouts are dead or hiding

[quiet quiver]

EMCON check moment

[night fable]

<@&942093958551588904> It's Friday, lab rats, and that means it's time for Friday Night NEBULOUS: Fleet Command! I'm hosting open multiplayer games, starting now - bring your fleets!
https://www.twitch.tv/docvivileandra

[wary flame]

I've been playing an absolute ton of cap game lately and I've noticed that cap game gets exponentially harder the moment your opponent starts covering everything with 8-10 AMMs

OSP especially is rather short of "just beam them" and "just RPF them" as solutions, so it gets a bit scrappy

[quiet quiver]

Well RPF instead has "just grape em" I guess?

[mint sinew]

Grape needing a good track hurts the 1:1 comparison

[quiet quiver]

Now contemplating the tradeoffs between 1 grazer and 15 2-pt AMMs and it really is hard for the grazer to pay for itself at 1 maybe 2 kills per salvo, huh?

[glad aurora]

The grazer is just for leakers, all told

[quiet quiver]

(Including the cost of the VLS but not the cost of the grazer's power)

[glad aurora]

All in all, after test games, Anti-Scout Action is actually very useful, but the combat element itself is incredibly fragile. A Vauxhall and two Sprinters, even with 3pt AMMs and double ACA 2x blanket, can't really engage bulkers - or if they can, I'm not playing them right.

Do I just go hunting MMTs opportunistically instead?

(even still, it's worth it for the little moments like watching a MDLN player quit on the spot when their team loses all their Bloodhounds)

[wet root]

A Vaux with jamming support can really bully a single bulker with the right positioning, but two or more are tricky

[olive blade]

I think jamming is more effective vs amms than grazers

and grazers are a little nicer for mutual support

but for isolated ships amms seem heaps better

[wet root]

I should use AMMs more

[glad aurora]

Yeah, I keep running into pairs that I can't goad into splitting up.

At the same time, two plas/100 bulkers breaking off and turning around to chase me has meant my team just wins, so...

[wet root]

Mhmm, I think your answer to a pair of bulkers focusing on a Vaux is to just leave, even with a Long Haul they can't really chase you down

[mint sinew]

Grazer has EO FCR, so can lock through jamming but doesn't have a visual backup so needs some kind of track to queue off

[olive blade]

yeah

[wicked mirage]

So, I made another thing 🛏️ 🦸

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'The Circle (Rail+Intel+S3H)' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

  Radiant Light : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail Gun PD Sensor]
Beautiful Chant : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail Missile PD]
  Tender Warmth : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail Missile PD]
   No Beginning : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Sensor PD]
         No End : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Sensor PD]
```This fleet uses 7 different missile types:
```yaml
            SGM-102 Starshard : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [2pts]
      SGM-H-3-0 Infinite Void : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HEKP [40pts]
   SGM-H-3-1 I See The Circle : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [26pts]
SGM-H-3-6 Skyshatter Sapphire : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/[ARAD(RADAR)] - HE SHAPED [27pts]
SGM-H-3-8 Earthbreaker Garnet : CRUISE - PSV(EO)/ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [28pts]
       SGM-H-323 Halite Spike : CRUISE - ARAD(RADAR)/ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [15pts]
   SGM-H-325 Truesilver Thorn : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/[PSV(EO)] - HE SHAPED [23pts]

[wicked mirage]

So the way this works, is that you rail something until it's disabled, and then you TRP Cruise one of the HEKP's right up its drive section to put it to bed for good.

[wary flame]

And the rest of the S3H is for kicks?

[noble zodiac]

a GUILTY GEAR reference
fascinating

[wicked mirage]

Yay someone got it xD

[noble zodiac]

quad tc spyglass, triple rail DD… damn this fits a lot into 3k lmao

[wicked mirage]

The "I See The Circle" is a CMD Weave S3H /w Hardened Skin & SSJ in order to ruin a Shuttle's day in a single shot. Weave takes care of Pavise, Hardened Skin resists Grazers and gucci AMM's, and SSJ shuts down cheap AMM spam.

[noble zodiac]

throngled

[wicked mirage]

The Halite Spikes have 10km of Sprint to donk jammers.

[noble zodiac]

YOO HoJ MAX SPRINT TECH

NICE

haven’t seen that since the days of pre OSP

[wicked mirage]

The Earthbreakers and Skyshatters have Hardened Skin and Size 8 warheads and can be fired in a mixed salvo of 2 each to hit something hard. 2.15km stage range means it's best against Bulkers and Monitors though.

[wary flame]

I haven't had good results with single SSJ against Act AMMs, four of them plus a bellbird on the launching ship has only barely sufficed

[noble zodiac]

zamn

[wary flame]

apparently it really does not jam very well compared to BSSJ, which you still want a couple of

[wicked mirage]

Interesting, hopefully the Weave with the SSJ throws off the AMM's a bit.

[wary flame]

The quad SSJ/Bellbird gigacanister S2s generally lose 1-2 to regular AMMs, just not all four in quick succession

[wicked mirage]

I see~

Yeah this is also an S3H so hopefully that makes a difference as well.

[wary flame]

If you min angle it, maybe you can do the strafe dodge?

depends on the engine though

I've noticed that some cheap min angle S3H I made sometimes jump far enough sideways when they stage to completely fool incoming AMMs

they're launched to intercept the cruise stage and then the sprint stage manages to sidestep past them like it's dodge rolling

[wicked mirage]

Dark Souls missile

[wary flame]

I wish I could figure out how to make it consistent, though

[wicked mirage]

Really quick btw, the Truesilver Thorns are 5km stage scout hunters intended to be fired at ELINT to blow up EWR's and LRT's.

So yeah, all the missiles in the fleet have a specific job ^^

[wary flame]

the Fishtail series I run on my cap corvs all manage it sometimes but they are very slow and very cheap, so they're probably not what you want here

I think it depends pretty heavily on exactly where your stage range is relative to the AMM launch time

[wicked mirage]

Yeah

[wicked mirage]

And Intel too!

[wary flame]

I like it, I need to try the extended stage range myself

since my cap corvs get arad-act S3H but they can't stage that far, they're just for instastaging Lyrebirds

[wicked mirage]

Oh that's cool tho!

The 10km stage range ones have a tiny warhead, only size 3, and no terminals, but it can still get in sometimes.

[wary flame]

I don't use them all the time, they might be more fun if I could zoom them all the way out to an orbiting MMT

[wicked mirage]

heh xD

[wary flame]

but they can't min angle sidestep at that range because you only get the dodge roll when the missile stages

[wicked mirage]

Yeah as long as the MMT doesn't have a pavise or a grazer they'll have to use AMM's to survive

[wicked mirage]

True.

[wary flame]

Need to figure out the exact stage distance that rolls past a normal max agi EL AMM so I can name a whole series of missiles Scholar Of The First Spin, Elden Spin, etc.

[wicked mirage]

Amazing xD

[wary flame]

I'm pretty sure the current Fishtails are close but maybe it could be more reliable

the main issue is that if you get too close you run into 20mm in cruise stage and die

[glad aurora]

new suggestion: terminals for cruise stages

cork 100% of the way to the target

[runic torrent]

boat night on <t:1711825200:t> <t:1711825200:R>!

[quiet quiver]

Wouldn't be a terminal, would it? It'd just be maneuvering

[glad aurora]

Terminal + terminaln't

[arctic magnet]

probably can't make it for boat night again, got sick

[junior heron]

oh no D:

hope you're feeling better soon!

(I also can't make boat night because I'm running a Pathfinder game)

[glad aurora]

can't make boat night because I'm partaking in the traditional american pastime of running around in a field with firearms for several hours

[supple sonnet]

if you would pardon the pun, we are in the same boat this weak and won''t be making it

Aneta (she/her) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) probably can't make it for boat night again, got sick :yikes:

[runic torrent]

hey folks I'm gonna be afk at the exact time boat night starts cause i'm gonna go shopping. I'll just open the channels in advance

[wicked mirage]

Here's to hoping we get some folks still! lol

[runic torrent]

<@&942093958551588904> boat night channels are open! it's easter weekend so attendance may be spotty haha, if you guys get any games have fun

[tulip vault]

Yeah it is le easter weekend for me so no boats

Instead I get to pet my dog

A fair trade methinks

[wet root]

I'll be on in a few mins, making meself some foods

[mint sinew]

Ditto, but coffee

[wary flame]

discovered a fun bug while testing my new missile tech - queuing up multiple S1 offensive salvos alongside an MLS-2 launch will split the MLS-2 launch into little bits, firing a single S2 alongside each S1 until there are no more S1s queued, at which point it behaves normally and launches any remaining S2s in the fire order

[wicked mirage]

That's crazy lol, nice bug find ^^

[wary flame]

The splitting behaviour works in the same way with MLS-3s instead of MLS-2s or VLS-2s/container banks instead of VLS-1s, but:

• If you replace the VLS-1s with container *stacks *it will simply not fire any MLS missiles until every single salvo from the container stacks has been programmed and launched, at which point the MLS fires all of them.
• If you replace the VLS-1 with specifically the VLS-3, CLS-3 or TLS-3, all the MLS missiles fire right as the last missile in the first programmed S3 salvo finishes launching and it starts programming the second.

new MMT missiles

[olive blade]

that is super weird lol

[wary flame]

first stage salvo assist tech works great, second and third stage salvo assist was derailed by a wild missile launcher bug that seemed to be hitherto unknown
I am willing to call that a pretty decent result

[wary flame]

Turns out you can actually exploit the bug against defenderless targets by splitting your MLS salvo into 4, leading each S2 with an S1 at 6 second intervals and eating every single Act AMM launched with them, doubling your PD pen against something like a scout raines

[olive blade]

ok thats kinda sick

[wary flame]

If you take a programming bus you can lead each S2 with two S1s and at that point the usual 8 AMMs these ships carry will only get half your salvo at best

it just melts to PDTs because your weave missiles are so spread out

Maybe fun for a dedicated scout hunter

[olive blade]

I kinda dig it

[mint sinew]

The 1:1 version being optional tech is really nice too. As long as you have the S1s you can always just program one and get full density or split them up if you want to bully AMMs

[wary flame]

It is obviously a bug so I wouldn't get too attached but I do want to see if I can make it work

just a question of keeping track and range

[wary flame]

I've just realised my MMTs have been in the "glass reactor" configuration this entire time

god damn it

[oak shell]

Boosted reactor?

[wary flame]

no, reactor in the default slot rather than the rear slot

you can swap it with the drive and it falls out considerably less often

[oak shell]

....
I did not know you could do that

That's a little bit silly

[wary flame]

those slots do not look like they should be interchangeable

it's best if you use an R drive because it just forms a giant wall in front of the reactor, but it's an improvement with normal drive too

[glad aurora]

That's... huh.

yeah, okay, sure I guess

time to change my torptug

[wary flame]

as the one cis cap player, I am having to pull double shifts

[noble zodiac]

yeag

[glad aurora]

renaming my spyglass+elint frigate from Counterintelligence Service to Trans Eternity of Visibility

[oak shell]

<@&942093958551588904>: would anyone like to boat?

[wicked mirage]

In a bit perhaps! Currently in a Lancer sesh

[oak shell]

@ me when you are done

[wary flame]

from Vastol on the nebcord

[wicked mirage]

Amazing xD

[noble zodiac]

hey @Misc
i require your finest tugs

(trying to build an OSP capulous fleet and dunno what kinda missile and AMM kit to put on them xP)

[wary flame]

OK, I have two tugfleets

the first is my standard issue OSP capfleet, with some expensive MMTs, mines, torptugs, a couple of rocket shuttles and a couple of empty cappers

the second is my experimental MMT platform with very expensive MMTs testing a bunch of new missile tech

to use the missiles on both of these correctly, find your enemy on a BRN ping, lock, jam, start programming one of the S1 offensive missiles and then Hold Fire before it launches

then aim the relevant missiles (Act/[CMD] if you have no lock, straight CMD if you do to punch through jamming and jam AMMs with the SSJs) and untick hold fire

the S1 fires ahead of the S2s and eats the first AMM or two

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Misc - Startug Troopers 0.44 (Salvo Assist)' is composed of 10 ships that cost 3000 points:

        Black Stones : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
        White Stones : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
      Striated Space : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [PD Missile Gun]
      Empty Triangle : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile Gun PD]
              Ladder : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile Gun PD]
Ear-Reddening Device : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Rocket EWar PD]
   Actually A Knight : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [PD Sensor Gun]
         Divine Move : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Rocket PD]
               Slate : 'Shuttle' class Clipper []
               Shell : 'Shuttle' class Clipper []
```This fleet uses 6 different missile types:
```yaml
        SGM-1 Currency Conversion : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
             SGM-108 Four Cheers! : DIRECT - HOJ(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
             SGM-208 GIGACANISTER : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [14pts]
                  SGM-208 Huzzah! : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [11pts]
        SGT-301 Crysknife Block V : DIRECT - CMD/HOJ(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [13pts]

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Misc - Wall Street 0.10' is composed of 10 ships that cost 3000 points:

 Blackrock : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
Blackstone : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
Blackwater : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
     Sachs : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
    Morgan : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
    Lehman : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [PD Missile Gun]
   Goldman : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Gun PD]
      J.P. : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Gun PD]
 Robinhood : 'Shuttle' class Clipper []
       FTX : 'Shuttle' class Clipper []
```This fleet uses 5 different missile types:
```yaml
        SGM-1 Currency Conversion : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
             SGM-108 Four Cheers! : DIRECT - HOJ(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
             SGM-208 GIGACANISTER : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [14pts]
                  SGM-208 Huzzah! : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [11pts]

[wary flame]

with the first fleet, the two rocket shuttles go together, with the second fleet, each MMT armed with only CMD missiles has one of the pavise shuttles as a partner, which sticks very close to cover the close-range MMT with its PD

also mines go on rocks as normal

[noble zodiac]

fascinating

(i'll probably remix these A Lot, im mostly asking for the tugs themselves bc i kinda wanna throw in some backcap-guard monitors and an EWR+bloodhound and gunshuttles for cheaper backcaps, but thanks !!)

[wary flame]

these are all quite fancy, you can make cheaper MMTs, but I'm experimenting with a lot of new tech for them

[quiet quiver]

Behold, the AAM (Anti-AMM Missile)

[wary flame]

apparently I joined a lobby to spectate, forgot to ready up and then went out for archery practice in the garden for an hour and a half
sorry to those guys

[wary flame]

OK, first test game of my new assault MMTs was a wash, the paired shuttle/tug unit did well and the missiles went clean through defenders on a solo vaux, but there were no AMMs or light ships to test the actual point of the thing, which is efficiently executing torpvettes

if they don't do that decisively better I'll just use torptugs instead

[tulip vault]

I mean, being able to whack a CL is pretty sweet

I'm not sure you need it, but have you considered moving the bellbird onto the shuttle?

just so that the MMT doesn't have to hold that and the lock at the same time

[wary flame]

possibly a good idea, although it makes the shuttle worse at being a detachable gun capper

haven't really had any trouble with it

[tulip vault]

I mean, it doesn't have chaff so I don't think it's that great of one anyhow, but fair

also, if your missiles really need the jamming to work having it randomly explode on a shuttle probably isn't a great idea

what're the gigacanisters?

[glad aurora]

max warhead, IIRC

[tulip vault]

mm, makes sense

that is my one big problem with the s2 mmts is actually finishing things off

maybe I should bring some of those in the future

[wary flame]

max warhead weave SSJ

7km range, good agi

salvo assist S1 plus quad SSJ plus bellbird should do a number on basic act AMM

[wary flame]

they're fun, but this unit is expensive and I'm not sure if it's worth it

I need to play them into real capfleets

[tulip vault]

yeah

one thing that's really been bugging me about capfleet is the fact that it's so hard to fit intel in one

I do not thing the rearguard torp monitor is worth it

[wary flame]

rearguard torp MN has largely been superseded by minetug

[tulip vault]

yeah

and the MDLN is just so many points to take out of a functional capfleet

oh, damn, only the ocello can mount the real VLSs

torps have been proving to be a real problem for my liners

[wary flame]

MDLN capfleet still very viable, you just need a lot of meat shuttle

I think good OSP teams want one MDLN regardless of whether you give it to cap guy or someone else

[tulip vault]

yeah

[wary flame]

not sure about any more rail support than that but MDs aren't optional

[tulip vault]

I think giving it to someone else probably makes more sense, imo

[wary flame]

or you die instantly to bombers/orbitals/CL spam

[tulip vault]

I think you can deal with CLs with plasma alone, but otherwise yeah

I've been trying to fit one into my throngler fleet but it's just too expensive

[wary flame]

sure, but not like 7-8 CLs, those guys just ball right on through

you need something to attrit

[tulip vault]

that's true, yeah

have you played many games with 7-8 CLs?

[wary flame]

two in the last week

[tulip vault]

damn

[wary flame]

if you want intel, maybe do a T20/C56 MN with chaff on top and a mine deployer on the bottom, stick 10 or so mines on one natural and then immediately fly off to the other one and cover it with your big MN beef and 100mm?

[tulip vault]

okay I don't like it and it doesn't have intel but here's thronglers and MDs

[lime jungle]

Fleet '3.0k - Double Threat + MDs' is composed of 6 ships that cost 3000 points:

 Arfaeth Terfynol : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun PD]
 Ewyllys Cythraul : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Plasma Gun PD]
      Rhosyn Marw : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile PD Gun]
          Damwain : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD]
Anadl y Gorllewin : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD Sensor]
  Anadl y Dwyrain : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
  SGM-123 Aderyn Ryhfedd : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
SGM-132 Fflowlyn Block V : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]

[tulip vault]

This isn't a bad idea, the monitor is just so expensive and so slow

that's

not the right one

what

right of course why would I name it something normal

[lime jungle]

Fleet '3.0k - Throngle with MDs' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

Ewyllys Cythraul : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Plasma Gun PD]
Arfaeth Terfynol : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun PD]
    Llygad y Nos : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Rail PD]

[tulip vault]

I also have a version which downgrades basically all the DC on the cannon one to rapids to fit intel

[quiet quiver]

Where's the MDs?

[tulip vault]

about 5 messages down

[quiet quiver]

Yeah but the fleet name says MD in it

[tulip vault]

yeah no I don't know either