#Nebulous: Fleet Command

1 messages · Page 13 of 1

wicked mirage
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In my opinion, the solution is to just not be in sidearm range with a 450 LN if you wanna win the gun duel.

tulip vault
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Hmm, maybe

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Clearly what we need to settle this is a duel

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Maybe I can learn to orbit dodge again

wicked mirage
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heh

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450 LN vs ANS capitals is a complex balance environment with lots of variables.

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For instance thruster damage affects dodging capability, and LN's are just straight up faster than Axes.

tulip vault
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That is certainly true

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(Not relevant to the balance at all but has anyone noticed the braking thrusters on LNs falling off at the slightest touch? Seems like I lose them constantly, even though I thought they had main engine health.)

wicked mirage
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Also if the 450 LN also has sidearms then Grape gets added to the equation, which also outranges 120's.

tulip vault
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I don’t think I really follow how grape is a big threat to a capital when paired with 450

wicked mirage
wicked mirage
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Which happens more often than you'd think in an extended firefight, especially considering how much Grape even sidearm T20's can put down range.

tulip vault
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That feels like an exceptionally large if, but you’re the rear admiral, so Ill take your word that it happens enough to be relevant

wicked mirage
supple sonnetBOT
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as someone who plays a lot of solomons/axfords, grapeshot is the one thing we truly fear

TronTheAllmighty (He/They) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) That feels like an exceptionally large if, but you’re the rear admiral, so Ill take your word that i…

wicked mirage
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I would say take anything I say with a grain of salt, I'm not the authority on the meta, I just know a lot and am fairly skilled.

tulip vault
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Lmao well clearly nobody has put the fear of grape in me yet

supple sonnetBOT
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outside of situational things like mines it's the number one threat

tulip vault
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I have yet to be… turned into wine? Is that a joke

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It feels like a joke

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Anyways

tulip vault
wicked mirage
tulip vault
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I would like to go up against your fancy 450 liners

sharp crow
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"1v1 me on abyssal" - tron, 2024

wicked mirage
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So in open space it would come down to whether I can blow you up with missiles or not.

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Also these LN's can't spot for themselves and will absolutely die within Ithaca range lol

tulip vault
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Haha well, I wasn’t thinking a straight duel on abyssal

wicked mirage
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Usually I rotate around cover and alternate between shooting and reloading in safety.

tulip vault
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Loath as I am to suggest it I wonder about the on side of yukon

wicked mirage
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We can do that if you want, but I don't know if it would be fun lol

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For either of us

tulip vault
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Mm, well, fair enough lol

wicked mirage
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Even within Parallax Lock range I'd have a chance, but I'd have to stay outside of 7.2km

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Otherwise the Sidearms would eat me

tulip vault
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Im just kinda running out of problems to solve, which sounds insanely conceited considering how often I lose games

wicked mirage
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Naw I feel you, you're looking for new and exciting things to try in order to keep the game fresh.

tulip vault
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But like, as OSP the answer is usually just caps or plasma, it feels, and as ANS it’s like 90% of the ANS kit

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Oh actually no I need to figure out how to beat my hands your bones

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They have a horrifying gale swarm

wicked mirage
tulip vault
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Well yeah lmao but I don’t have room for that in any of my fleets

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I wonder if I can shove a killjoy in my OSP fleets somehow, without bringing an ocello

wicked mirage
tulip vault
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Yeah, I just already have my PD shuttle slots taken up by anti-torp pickets

wicked mirage
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Gotcha.

tulip vault
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Because that’s an extremely legit threat to obelisks

wicked mirage
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Here Tron, I really wanna make you a Hero-Bulker fleet like my Pumpkin and Pomegranate. It'll be especially for you! If I do that will you play it?

junior heron
tulip vault
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Oh god, my brain cannot handle 15k

junior heron
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that's fine

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we can do 3k v 3k

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on canyon

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1v1

wicked mirage
tulip vault
tulip vault
junior heron
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lmao

tulip vault
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Im not saying my time is valuable

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But it’s not that worthless

wicked mirage
tulip vault
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Yknow honestly a 6k 1v1 with only cap fleets on canyon would almost be something real

wicked mirage
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Give me an hour, and then after that I'll make the Corvette we talked about earlier Tom ^^

wary flame
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I really quite like Axes at 1.5k

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but I do build a lot of budget ships

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I think if you pushed me I'd go to 1550 just to get an extra large locker in each, since I'm a little short on tonk, but they have all the firepower they're ever going to need

wicked mirage
wary flame
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I think the Axford/450 LN matchup favours equal points in Axfords, since it's on the LNs to get the good engagement angle close-up and they can't repair any damage they take in doing so like the Axfords can

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but I have killed Axfords with a single 450 LN in the right place, it's not 100% decided

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what really swings it in my book is a single gun Solomon, which can just stare down three 450 LNs and kill them all

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and have 600+pts off doing other stuff

tulip vault
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I'm incredibly unsold on solomons in general, but they do kinda just win a lot of fights

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not every fight by any means, but a lot of them

wicked mirage
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IMO against sollies I think one's best bet is to either burst em with missiles if they lack softkill, or have plasma. Other than that I just try to kite/avoid them. They're most of a fleet by themselves, are slow, and they can only be in one place at a time.

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@tulip vault Are you okay with going under-crew or would you rather have enough crew at the expense of some DC?

tulip vault
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I'm still holding myself to the standard of not going under crew, yeah

wicked mirage
tulip vault
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my ships may be objectively worse for it, but I prefer it nonetheless

wary flame
glad aurora
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case in point: that pubgame awhile ago where I won a 1v4 with effectively One Solomon

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you either have the tools to deal with it or don't, and if you don't, you need to figure that out quickly and just go for caps

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on the mines discussion: I invented an abominable creature a bit ago, which was a cruise S3 with EL Frag

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I don't think it's cheap or effective enough to actually bring, but it is funny

wet root
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I feel like right now the main advantage 450 LNs have over other 450 platforms is their mobility with the Long Haul

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Which makes me a bit worried because I definitely expect there's a long haul nerf on the horizon

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Also, I never realized LNs have that low sustained 450 output, does that even outperform a pair of Ocellos?

tulip vault
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I doubt it

glad aurora
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No, but a pair of Ocellos cost significantly more

wet root
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As in, do three LNs outperform a pair of CCs

glad aurora
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(they also shoot more accurately and are immune to most types of missile, so)

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... good question

wet root
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One LN is well behind one CC

tulip vault
glad aurora
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I think it depends on how much anti-missile you put on your Ocello

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less room for ammo elevators

wet root
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(Admittedly in practice CC dps is a bit lower because of that front turret being a bit wonky and sometimes choosing not to shoot)

tulip vault
wet root
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That sounds about right

tulip vault
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if you're doing a reasonable ocello LNs win out a bit

wet root
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I've gone down to 4x AE on some of my CCs just because ammo is super tight on one mag

glad aurora
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In this meta, though, I do think I'd take the double CC

wet root
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But I've also squished a second mag in some, so I could bump those up to 5 again

wary flame
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ocellos not having burst fire also heavily favours the ANS capitals, because they have the nanomachines regeneration

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so they can often just repair up between salvoes that do relatively little damage

wet root
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(Seriously, the boosted reactor does so much for your PD options)

tulip vault
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I do think the Ocello-Axford fight is pretty even

glad aurora
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Last time I made a double Ocello fleet, I was very uninterested in fighting ANS capitals to begin with, so I just went double whip and a bunch of 250s to hunt down their abominable swarms

wary flame
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I think the Axfords absolutely rinse the Ocellos

glad aurora
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I wonder if it's worth it to put sidearms on Ocellos...

wet root
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I think rn you do want LNs for that because long haul goes nyoooooom

wary flame
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25% repair cap is no joke, and neither are 120s/torps

wet root
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And grape

glad aurora
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has anyone tried Ocellos with grape 100 sidearms

wet root
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I do like the CC/Axford matchup, lots of interesting nuance

tulip vault
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oh yeah with sidearms I do think the ocellos get entirely rolled if they don't catch the axfords out

wet root
tulip vault
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without it's a lot closer

glad aurora
wet root
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CCs outduel Axfords at like 8.5k+ with their better profile and dodging, but yeah sidearms seem nasty for their front thrusters

wary flame
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I think without sidearms the Ocellos also get entirely rolled

noble zodiac
wary flame
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you just can't really hurt the Axfords that much in a reasonable time

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they can just close in and crush you

glad aurora
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If I was fighting myself, I'd know that the Sarissas aren't going to matter as soon as the blankets get on me, so I best just kill them before the hardened skin HEKP gets out

wary flame
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or Leave

glad aurora
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at the same time, I don't usually see the hardened skin HEKP tech in pubulous, so...

tulip vault
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maybe I'm just too cautious around CCs lol

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I'm still haunted by it just being the better axford ™️

wet root
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Sarissas are for team coverage, if you just want to protect yourself Auroras are definitely the way

glad aurora
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my team can fend for themselves at this point

wet root
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I've never really had issues with Axfords in my CCs except Pyrope's assorted rail-assisted fleets

glad aurora
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I'll spin up a sidearm Ocello when I get home in a bit

wet root
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The cost of my DC choices is rails give me the biggest sad

wicked mirage
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IT'S DONE!

lime jungleBOT
# wicked mirage <@621795822282997821> Here you are Adventurer!~ <a:ProudRube:783147545672024064>...

Fleet 'Tron's Enchanted Sword' is composed of 6 ships that cost 3000 points:

+3 Orichalcum Sword : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun Missile Sensor Ewar PD]
         Crossguard : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [PD]
             Pommel : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [PD]
       Danger Sense : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Sensor PD]
  Potion of Heroism : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD Gun]
 Potion of Strength : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD Gun]
```This fleet uses 6 different missile types:
```yaml
             CM-S-4-3 STORMFLOWER : CRUISE - CMD - HE SHAPED [40pts]
                SGM-102 Starshard : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [2pts]
SGM-133 'Red Scythe' Anti-Clipper : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [7pts]
                  SGM-171 Esunaga : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [5pts]
        SGM-177 Orichalcum Shield : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [9pts]
         SGM-277 Heartsteel Blade : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [10pts]
Trons_Enchanted_Sword.png
tulip vault
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fancy

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thank you muchly

wicked mirage
tulip vault
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yeah sure

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Ill be in IPS-N

grand pine
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woah that is a cool fleet

supple sonnetBOT
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oh, thinking of osp spotters, have we shown you the absolutely perfect dog?

Pyrope 🩸 ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) We could, but I would need a Spotter Tug on my side for a fair fight I think, and it would boil down…

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we don't have a proper fleet with it we don't think, but it's effectively just a cargo feeder with a bloodhound and full to bursting with track correlators

wicked mirage
supple sonnetBOT
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yea!!!!!

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no, it can get you something like a tq12 or 13 track on something, it's great for backing up gun bulkers and getting fire downrange at least somewhat accurately

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actually, we should try to make a 450 bulker fleet with gun plotting stations to try and make it better 🤔

noble zodiac
supple sonnetBOT
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it's absolutely perfect!!!!! 😌

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honestly if we hadn't been dealing with budget i think we could probably fit intel in it too without much issue

grand pine
supple sonnetBOT
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the absolutely perfect dog!!!!!

noble zodiac
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the creabture

supple sonnetBOT
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just a little guy,,,,,

noble zodiac
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i think saper might uh want the ship file tho

supple sonnetBOT
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we don't have it right now but we'll get it asap when we're home

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just on lunch break rn sorry

grand pine
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i am just a noob and know nothing:(

supple sonnetBOT
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yr good

grand pine
supple sonnetBOT
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it is a good day! a coworker brought in donuts and nobody else is eating them

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and also we haven't been murdered which is also good

grand pine
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murdered? dear god, hope everything is fine

glad aurora
lime jungleBOT
grand pine
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great name

noble zodiac
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A HUNDRED POINTS

junior heron
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hey

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it's only 99

glad aurora
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think about it this way: how much does a ship you would lose to that minefield cost

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a corvette's base hull is 100! this is 1pt cheaper

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of course, the question then becomes "are all minefields grouped up in an area at least 274 meters in radius or smaller," and I believe the answer is "yes"

grand pine
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is it faster than a corvette?

glad aurora
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yes 🙂

grand pine
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that's... an interesting mine disposal method

glad aurora
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I have also finalized the Selfish Ocello Fleet and will be running it through a pubulous before posting it here

grand pine
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selfish ocello?

glad aurora
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no sarissas (replaced with 100mm grape/he-hc)

wet root
dire harness
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no :(

wicked mirage
glad aurora
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Yep, exactly.

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Ideally, you have one of these and an offset spotter to actually see the mines

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then you fire this around the rock and guide it into the middle of the minefield

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it's SACT, so it can maintain lock while turning

wicked mirage
# wet root Wait hold on do RCCs apply to the MLS as well?

Naw unfortunately, the 1st RCC is just statistically better than the 4th AE for raw RPM on C65's and C56's, and also lets you dump your autoloader a little quicker so you can duck behind cover if you need to, and lets you burst a little harder.

glad aurora
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Actually, come to think of it

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Against the average Auger trap, is 99pts a positive trade?

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I've never played mine OSP

wicked mirage
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Sprints are 10 points per. Mattocks are 6 points per.

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Co-op Mattocks are also 6 points.

glad aurora
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Perfect. The 99pt minesweeping stick is actually an optimized meta tool.

wicked mirage
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Yeah... lol

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On the other hand, it will also blow the hell out of any oncoming missile salvo.

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Moreso S2's and Containers than S3's but still.

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I don't know if you'd be able to make a positive return at all there, but not dying is usually a valid strategy.

glad aurora
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I suppose if you see the container swarm heading towards your Axford and your disco ball/drives are out, you can just smack it with the Stick

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should buy you enough time to repair

wicked mirage
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Imagine if Blast Frag dealt damage like RPF to ships xD

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99 points to turn a Shuttle or two into a block of swiss cheese. Not at all cost effective, but very funny.

glad aurora
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To be fair, 99 points to turn two shuttles into swiss cheese is cost-effective

wicked mirage
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On paper, yes.

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But similar can be achieved with actual HEI Torps for a fifth of the price lol

wicked mirage
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Giga Bomb Shell

wary flame
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my optimised mine tugs are 320-ish points for 15 mines, so if you get 2/3 of one that's profit

wary flame
glad aurora
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(this man could not figure out that firing his entire load of S3 shipkiller torps into my completely grey nose would not stop me)

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that said, aside from the memes, I am not OSP pubulousing again

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getting facerolled by seven axfords is many things, but not what I'd call an enjoyable experience

lime jungleBOT
# glad aurora updated with the Stick

Fleet 'NG Fool' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Whoops, My Trigger Finger Slipped : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Missile Gun EWar PD Sensor]
            Designated Cap Device : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Beam EWar Gun PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
                 SGM-H-378 Estoc : DIRECT - PSV(EO)/CMD - HEKP [49pts]
       SGM-H-378 Estoc Mle. 1630 : DIRECT - CMD/ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [27pts]
SGT-311 Unknown Technology Blyat : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [99pts]
NG_Fool.png
wet root
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That is not a lot of big gun for 2300 points of Axford

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Some nasty instastage though

glad aurora
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It's actually pretty long range (21km max, I think?) but if you're at 3k, yeah, that'll just core out an Ocello however you want it with minimal counterplay

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the question I have right now is GPC or SPC, all considered

quiet quiver
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Pub players love the Axford

mint sinew
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Pretty much. I've not played a pubulous game with less than 3 capitals in a while (and those were all Sollies)

glad aurora
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update: next pub was 2x gun solomon / axfords / one beamswarm

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we lost by 60pts off a lead of 200pts when our middie forgot he had a sixth ship to recap our natural

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think that's enough neb for the day

olive blade
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my issue with the 450 vs axford matchup is that the axford is like a full platform usually

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it can bring the 450, side guns, a full softkillsuite

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missiles if it really wants, good sensors

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strong armour and dc, esp bowtanking

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450 liners have iffy pd, need sensor support under any amount of jamming, are fragile and have far more complex movement constraints

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I think you can work around the problems a bit, but imo fundementally the ship that has a lot less of these advantages should probably win the raw gun fight

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cost for cost

wicked mirage
wet root
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Weirdly I think part of why 450 bulkers aren't great rn is that the Long Haul is so good, it makes the range constraints of plas/100 less of a factor

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And the range is I think theoretically the main reason to take 450s over plas/100mm

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Today's realization: Sundrives in Ocellos don't die to missiles

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(Ocellos being the only OSP ship with 40% DR)

quiet quiver
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... Huh, the C56 250mm, C81 plasma, and TE45 MD are all 4x_x4 and not 6x_x6 but no mount can take advantage of this fact

wicked mirage
tulip vault
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apparently, yeah

image.png
wicked mirage
supple sonnetBOT
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Yeah Ocellos are thin skined Axfords with smaller mounts that still can't all fire forword

wet root
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It would be nice if they tweaked the front mount to make it a bit less fiddly to shoot forward

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But then again I already occasionally hit myself with the bottom gun so maybe that's not the safest change to make

quiet quiver
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Is it just being so flat to the hull the hull masks the firing angle?

wet root
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Yeah, you have to be pointing very slightly below your target to fire with all three guns

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Can't fire directly forward with the foremost

supple sonnetBOT
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And the front Dorsel turet keeps the rear Dorsal turet from deperesing fully as well

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Though I do wonder how far away a 4xTC ship can spot an ocello wti the romulan colking device engaged

wet root
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Spyglass can see them pretty much to max range

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Though admittedly that's directly bow on, not sure about in stealth mode

supple sonnetBOT
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Yeah 12~k vs 4~K is enough of a reduction that I was wondering. Though cheaking it it looks like you would have to run some number of [proweles to not be spoted at the edge fo 450 range

image.png
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Or well in 450 range and not at the perfect angle

lime jungleBOT
#

'Absolutely Perfect Dog' is a 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor that costs 560 points.

Absolutely_Perfect_Dog.png
lime jungleBOT
wet root
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The aggressively nerdy pupper

supple sonnetBOT
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do not insult the perfect dog

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it is sniffing around. for possibly tracks

wet root
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It's nothing against the dog, it's just full of nerds

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Which is kind of surprising since I thought that inside a dog it's too dark to read

wary flame
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I really don't think you need the annexes, but I suppose it speeds up missile ID a bit so nobody needs a scryer

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would give it some chaff and AMMs/Ceremonial Arming Missile since it's quite the investment

supple sonnetBOT
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fair! but this is also kind of meant to be way out in the middle of nowhere (although that's not particularly useful when it's the end of the match and the only things left alive are the ones that haven't been fighting)

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that said yes give your absolutely perfect dog guns today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

quiet quiver
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No magazine

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So it's gotta be container stacks or offensive s1s

wet root
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Container stacks and backup antennas give good HP anyway, you can spend like 50 points on those and a chaff box to be a lot safer against missiles

supple sonnetBOT
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or you can tell some nerds to move over

dire harness
lime jungleBOT
# dire harness intel :D

Fleet '3k simply goalies v2' is composed of 9 ships that cost 3000 points:

        Frozen Moonlight : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Beam PD Missile Sensor]
          Ephemeral Dawn : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [PD Beam Sensor]
       Cap fast Die fast : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile PD]
       Cap slow Die fast : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile PD]
               Ephemeral : 'Raines' class Frigate [PD Sensor]
                Ethereal : 'Raines' class Frigate [PD Sensor]
     Cap cheap Die cheap : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD]
Cap cheaper Die cheapest : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD]
     Cap soon Die sooner : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD]
```This fleet uses 9 different missile types:
```yaml
         SGM-1 Winter : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
     SGM-100 a weapon : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
SGM-200 a long weapon : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR)/SAH(RADAR) - NONE [2pts]
         SGM-200 boop : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [4pts]
     SGM-H-202 Booper : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [12pts]
       SGM-H-24 bmonk : CRUISE - PSV(EO)/PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [18pts]
 SGM-H-310 weeeeeeeee : DIRECT - PSV(EO) - HE SHAPED [23pts]
      SGT-300 helllo! : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[PSV(WAKE)] - HE SHAPED [6pts]
     SGT-300 wooooooo : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [9pts]
3k_simply_goalies_v2.png
wet root
#

Intel center on a Beamstone is funny to me, I'm just imagining them looking out the window and analyzing by the backscatter of the beam

eager cedar
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Got a couple of different nebulous questions, mainly with how I like playing games like this

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How much of a fucker can you be with EWAR
How well can you dance around the asteroids staying in cover if you micro correctly
I know you can customize missiles, but how interesting can you make them in comparison to say, from the depths

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Also, fighters aren't in are they

supple sonnetBOT
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Fighters are not in yet and you can hide a battleship with enough jamming

quiet quiver
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Fighters prolly gonna be a 2025 thing

supple sonnetBOT
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we don't know from the depths and cant atest to that, and the cover thing is realy map dependant

quiet quiver
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Ship customization is basically you have a dozen or two slots per ship and you fill those slots with different modules

supple sonnetBOT
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Some maps are knife fight centeral and others open enough that stealth can just be staying out of radar range

quiet quiver
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And there's 6 different hulls for each of the two stock factions

junior heron
eager cedar
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Having a hard time finding videos of specific things that aren't like a year old

junior heron
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anything in particular you're looking for?

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i'd be fine to hop on and stream if you'd like

grand pine
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wait we're gonna get fighters!? yayy

junior heron
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fighters and carriers are a long way off

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but they're eventually planned for

eager cedar
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Mainly just seeing the lengths of fuckery you can get on with ewar and missiles, I did see a video of someone making missiles that specifically targeted jammers which I found pretty funny. But basically bamboozling people with missiles from weird angles etc, I did also see that the cargo faction had some neat things in that respect like fake ship pings and long range mine deployers

grand pine
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i can't even understand missiles.. hell, i can't even figure out guns:(

eager cedar
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Can you make stealthy missiles, like for example coasting missiles that does a short burst to punt them in the general direction making it really hard to detect, and then a second stage activates when it gets near a target

glad aurora
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radar-absorbent material skin S3H

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(so, yes)

junior heron
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yep, hybrid missiles are in. they're a little easier to detect at long range, so they're vulnerable to being shot down in the cruise stage

eager cedar
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neat

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I did see in a video that you can choose a path for (some?) missiles(torpedos?) so you can have it sneak around using asteroids for cover and then hit stuff from the back

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And most importantly, that you can name missiles so they know they just got blown up by "Here comes a special boy"

junior heron
#

as for EWAR:
the most basic thing is to jam your enemy's radar so they can't see you.
You can also jam their communications so they can't receive intel from the rest of their fleet, which is useful for cutting off long-range weapons like mass drivers, railguns, or missile ships. This also can jam missiles that receive their target info from the launching ship.
To counter the radar jamming, you can illuminate targets, increasing their radar signature. Missiles can be fired against these illuminated targets.
There's decoys in two different flavors: one faction can disguise their ship as another ship type, while the other can launch cargo containers that looks like one of two ship types.

eager cedar
#

I feel like the second disguise is a bit better, because I don't think seeing a battleship zoom around like a corvette is gonna fool people :v

junior heron
#

move at 1/3 speed, with a name that everyone else recognizes because we've been playing in-house games for like 2 years at this point :P

#

(also don't forget to give it weapons so it doesn't register as "harmless")

eager cedar
#

If I wanna go EWAR and missiles, which of the factions would be better

junior heron
#

ANS, I think

#

OSP doesn't have comms jamming, save for the Ocello (which gets ANS equipment), and ANS also gets the pinard ELINT module, which detects and points towards radar from longer range, meaning you can have little corvettes that lock onto targets from max range just moving in deep space

eager cedar
#

the OSP mines do look real fun though

#

also can you play coop in multiplayer or is it just singleplayer

junior heron
#

right now the game is pretty much only multiplayer skirmish

#

there's a big update for a campaign-esque mode called Conquest coming, and that will be multiplayer too

#

the current AI in the game isn't great

eager cedar
#

yeah I mean like, coop skirmish

junior heron
#

yeah

#

usual game is a 4v4, with each player bringing a fleet worth 3000 points

supple sonnetBOT
#

You have Teem VS Teem PVP as the defult but some folks will do like 1V4 fights

junior heron
#

can go bigger, can go smaller, you can do different fleet amounts

#

we've got a boat night today in 5 hours, if you grab the role you can see the channels and someone can stream for you to spectate

eager cedar
#

I am tempted to grab it since it's 30% off right now

toxic scaffold
#

Also speaking of missiles, it's been a while since we made a gale fleet and so we decided to remake an old one we had

📎 New-Old-Gales.fleet
lime jungleBOT
# toxic scaffold Also speaking of missiles, it's been a while since we made a gale fleet and so w...

Fleet 'New-Old-Gales' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

Duncan Idaho : 'Raines' class Frigate [Missile EWar]
Duncan Idaho : 'Raines' class Frigate [Missile EWar]
Duncan Idaho : 'Raines' class Frigate [Missile EWar]
Duncan Idaho : 'Raines' class Frigate [Missile EWar]
Duncan Idaho : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-100 Leagaly A Missle : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
          SGM-H-233 Gale : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [7pts]
New-Old-Gales.png
eager cedar
#

Are missiles reloadable or do you have a limited amount

junior heron
#

limited

#

-ish, I guess
ANS fires missiles from cells, which carry a limited number depending on what mount you put the cell on
OSP fires missiles from rolloff launchers, which can draw from a magazine

#

and then the container banks are basically just really big cells

#

but misstiles take up enough space in a magazine that they're still a limited ammo, whereas most ships won't usually run into ammo issues over the course of a skirmish match

supple sonnetBOT
#

A few builds can be liberal with there missile usage, like each ship in the fleet i posted has 48 missiles and fires 4 in a volley giving me 12 volleys in total winch is enough as long as I don't fight a swarm with it.

#

The big thing about missles VS shells is that your going to be spending 3 points minimum on anything but the most fringe design, and that gets you 75 to 750 shells depending on the calibur of the shell

eager cedar
#

oh no how could that have happened

image.png
junior heron
#

oh no, what a conundrum

wicked mirage
lime jungleBOT
# wicked mirage

'Thincc Bocks' is a 'Keystone' class Destroyer that costs 700 points.

Thincc_Bocks.png
wicked mirage
#

One use of Analysis Annexes: Quickly identifying enemy missile seekers as Intel Centers have a 90% speed malus against identifying specifically missiles.

#

Also accurate intel can help identify whether ships are actually Harmless or actually Evacuated with better turnaround time.

junior heron
#

oh

#

I wish that malus was mentioned anywhere

wicked mirage
#

It's to make it so the Scryer has a job.

junior heron
#

i'm curious, where'd you find out about it?

wicked mirage
#

He's the NebWiki man

eager cedar
#

Anyone wanna help me knock together a fleet for tonight

wicked mirage
#

He's also how I know that Fires do 5% of a component's max health every 30 seconds, and have a chance to spread to a component within 12.5m every 45 seconds. And also how I know that Mines have 40 HP across all variants.

wicked mirage
#

VC?

eager cedar
#

sure

wicked mirage
#

I'm in horus hangout 😄

supple sonnetBOT
#

I don't think i will be making boats this weak, We have a headache that we can just barely keep tolerable

misty storm
#

I’ve gotta get food, will be on for later games

wet root
# wicked mirage D0d0

Oh, I know he was looking into it a while back, good to have a hard number on how that works

#

How do the annexes interact with it? With one annex is it like a 40% total malus or like an 85% one?

runic torrent
#

<@&942093958551588904> opened the boat night channels

wicked mirage
#

Intel still works very quickly though, think of it this way, if the Intel Center didn't have that malus it would identify missiles even more quickly than the Scryer.

#

By a lot.

glad aurora
#

I'll be around for boat in a couple minutes

wet root
lone violet
#

gahh, the one night i wanted to try it out i’m across the country 😔

wicked mirage
# wet root Yeah, definitely still seems good, just not ludicrous

Also it's worth noting that Intel is cumulative even though it also degrades over time. Even if the Annexed Intel Center is too slow to identify the first missile salvo, if they send a second salvo with the same missiles shortly after the IC will be able to carry over its work and hopefully identify the missiles in time during the second salvo.

wet root
#

Oh interesting, I had definitely expected each missile to count as a new object to identify

#

Btw @wicked mirage did they fix the geometry on the Ruby Shelf?

wicked mirage
wet root
#

Good news, because we're loading into it now lol

wicked mirage
wicked mirage
olive blade
#

yeah I'm pretty sure it sticks

misty storm
wicked mirage
#

Ash's S3H beat my AMM's, and so I have been forced to return to something more expensive xD

image.png
glad aurora
#

I spent hours in the laboratory devising the device that guarantees I actually hit something

wicked mirage
wicked mirage
lime jungleBOT
# wicked mirage Alrighty, this is the fleet I mentioned wanting to make earlier btw:

Fleet 'Crescent Rose (BrawlCC+Intel)' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

Crescent Rose : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD Sensor]
Scarlet Scope : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [PD Missile Sensor]
  Petal Burst : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD EWar]
  Petal Helix : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD EWar]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
   CM-466 SKELETIZER : CRUISE - CMD/ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [8pts]
SGM-170 Golden Parry : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [6pts]
     SGM-171 Esunaga : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [5pts]
Crescent_Rose_BrawlCCIntel.png
wicked mirage
#

It's a similar concept to my Summer Rose fleets, a triple drived Ocello to brawl and skirmish with some PD/EWAR escorts. It pulls about 34.5 m/s, and has exactly enough power for everything.

#

It's down 20kW which doesnt matter cuz Rmags don't need power lol

#

No anti-hybrid PDT's because it's all into anti-hybrid AMM's and anti-conventional PDT's.

mint sinew
#

yard shuttles are funky, I kinda love them

wicked mirage
#

This fleet also has the benefit of offsetting Hangup comms jamming for my allies by nature of being an Ocello lol

#

I also like how this Ocello blends a lot of OSP and ANS tech ^^ feels like a cool style.

#

Dragon/Yard/Sun has way better turn and roll rate plus slightly better top speed than dragon/whip/raider at the cost of some LT and having to deal with the Sun's fragility, but it still gets 10% LT from the Yard.

glad aurora
#

I run Whip/Yard/Whip, I think

wicked mirage
#

Nice ^^ very zoomy, fairly robust.

glad aurora
#

That said, game after game after game of trying to make Ocellos with any amount of 250 work has made it obvious that, at least in this meta, it can't

#

Time to swap in the 450 turrets, I suppose

wicked mirage
#

250's are pretty good against DD's and CL's, but it needs Plasma to crack CH's and BB's, and it just overpens FF's and FFL's, so having 100mm on the side is nice. That being said, the Mk65 is usually overshadowed by other options rn I agree.

wet root
#

I've had luck with a single 250 turret to kill Sprinters, Raines, and Keystones, but it does mean you're 33% worse at killing Axfords and up

olive blade
#

it just does nothing to axfords nose on

#

and close to nothing side on

wicked mirage
#

It'll take out their nose thrusters and forward compartments/modules, but it won't kill or totally disable nose-on yeah. It can kill/disable side-on but it takes a while.

olive blade
#

its just imo better to pretend it does nothing

wicked mirage
#

heh, fair

wet root
#

Btw Pyrope I'll have you know you are 100% to blame for this Axford fleet I was trying today

wicked mirage
#

Let's see, if I were held at gunpoint and told to make a 250 CC work, I would probably give it a pair of plasma/100 MN escorts, or a plasma/100 LN buddy. That would cover the 250's bases, but 450 would honestly still feel better I think lol. It'd let you tear apart CL's though I guess.

wicked mirage
#

What did I do?! lol

wet root
#

It's basically my version of the Summer fleet

wicked mirage
#

Ooooo!~

#

I wanna see!

wet root
#

Except with more speed, jamming, and missiles, and less DC, AMMs, and cap Sprinter

lime jungleBOT
# wet root

Fleet 'Fancy Axford' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Tale : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun Missile EWar PD Sensor]
Pyre : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun EWar PD]
```This fleet uses 6 different missile types:
```yaml
       SGM-H-315 Bigtail : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [15pts]
SGM-H-341 Super Shanghai : CRUISE - PSV(WAKE)/[ACT(RADAR)] - HEKP [29pts]
SGM-H-342 Super Shanghai : CRUISE - PSV(WAKE)/[ACT(RADAR)] - HE SHAPED [13pts]
        SGM-H-344 Hourai : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/[ARAD(RADAR)] - HE SHAPED [20pts]
        SGM-H-345 Hourai : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/[PSV(WAKE)] - HE SHAPED [19pts]
           SGT-300 Pilum : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [5pts]
Fancy_Axford.png
wicked mirage
#

Ooo yeah a VLS-3 Backpack is always good.

#

My Summer fleets don't use AMM's these days, but yeah I see you have a lot more jamming!

wet root
#

I think they got hardkilled (and thrown into a rock) today but the WAKE[ACT] HEKP is kind of hilarious

wicked mirage
#

I like to have Floodlights in order to help push through enemy jamming personally.

wicked mirage
wary flame
wicked mirage
wary flame
#

my thoughts on 250 ocellos is that two 250 turrets should be the backup weapons for torpedoes

wet root
#

Also Slot 9 Bullseye on the Axford is surprisingly effective

wary flame
#

but I don't think you can get two good torpcellos in 3k

wicked mirage
wicked mirage
#

32 torps funni

wet root
#

Just means you have to keep a closer eye on your roll because I'm pretty sure that bullseye is why I missiled into the rock that one game lol

wicked mirage
# wet root

Super Shanghai is an amazing missile name btw

wary flame
#

torp LN doesn't have the Antenna Of The Gods

wet root
#

They're much scarier than the normal Shanghai

wicked mirage
wary flame
#

and I appreciate the big long nose in between the enemy and your squishy torpedo launcher

#

but I need to work on those torpship designs

#

I'm not very confident with torps on anything bigger than a monitor

wet root
#

Hey, I survived an entire match against Tom's CLN with only two hits until the last like 60 seconds

#

(And those two hits were just unlucky random walks under jamming I think)

wicked mirage
# wet root

Ya with missiles like these you can definitely afford to only have 2 Mk62's as opposed to 4.

wicked mirage
#

Softkill strong

wet root
wicked mirage
wet root
wary flame
#

oh hey it's the bigtail

#

budget export model designs win again

wet root
#

Yep lol

wicked mirage
#

Nice ^^

#

Yeah, sensible missile

wicked mirage
wet root
#

I'm just glad to finally have an ANS fleet that actually uses something bigger than a Vaux lol

#

The double Whip Raider is so nice

wicked mirage
#

Only real downside I see is the lack of floodlights, but with this much jamming if you get jammed out yourself you can just mutually agree with your opponent to not see each other xD

wet root
#

Yeah, I might swap out for floods at some point

#

I kind of went with Blankets just by default because they're what I like on Ocellos

#

But OSP has Bloodhounds

wicked mirage
#

I get ya, my Summer fleets usually feature 2 Blankets, 2 Floods, and a Disco.

wet root
#

Which makes the Floods less valuable for OSP and the Blankets less valuable for ANS

wicked mirage
#

Yeah Bloodhounds are scary

wary flame
#

simply have another two axfords offset spotting for your first axford

wet root
#

I suppose swapping to Floods I could always bring my Vaux along with my Axford if I need the jam coverage

wet root
tulip vault
wet root
#

Just because I can detach the Vaux to go do its own thing doesn't mean I have to

wicked mirage
wet root
#

Yeah, I really like the roaming Softkill Vaux

#

That's why it has its own full suite of softkill

wicked mirage
#

Nice ^^ I like that a lot, cool evolution of the concept.

wet root
#

Sometimes I even manage to not get Rocket Shuttled :D

wary flame
#

softkill vaux really put the enemy team in disarray when it showed up in the backline that game

#

I like the dispersed CLs, I should be less twitchy about paying for more than one disco ball

wary flame
#

I've started trying to finish off ships by pos firing known CIC locations at the earliest possible moment and I've found it dramatically speeds up my Axford kills and basically only my Axford kills, which led me to start deliberately putting my Axfords below people to shield the citadel space behind the C5 mount

#

The tankiness of the tucked in cozy CIC is absurd if you're just battering the ship

wet root
#

I'm surprised it's not helped against Tugs and Monitors

quiet quiver
#

Tugs and monitors are fairly centralized so it doesn’t take long to just hit something critical

olive blade
#

also a lot more fiddly to posfire

wicked mirage
#

I like the tried and true method of hitting the drive section until it kersplodes, but POS firing predicted CIC locations on disabled ships is nifty.

#

Finisher Containers are pretty good too I think, cruising one into a disabled capital's drive section usually results in a bunch of catastrophic events that will take down the ship for good.

grand pine
#

damn ive missed 2 boat nights in a row 😔

noble zodiac
#

imagine showing up to boat night

#

altho i might actually be doing that sometime

(because the lancer campaign i had that overlaps it might have just imploded V:)

grand pine
#

a lancer camnaign? imploded? that's so sad

#

i also need to try building more groups but there are just too many options

wary flame
#

although sometimes you get someone with a backup RCIC in the tower which is fun

idle fox
#

downloaded the demo of this game today since it has lived in my head since I first saw it, can confirm after doing some of the tutorials and peeking into the fleet designer that my brain has turned to jam

#

do you guys have any advice for getting started

wary flame
#

finish tutorials, take starter axford fleet out into a singleplayer skirmish and concentrate on beating the AI up with that

#

number 1 rule of gunfighting: nose goes towards the thing shooting at you, broadsiding is death

#

number 2 rule of gunfighting: get a lock

#

everything else is situational

idle fox
#

I haven't even got to the part where you tell them which way to point

wary flame
#

ah, then do the tutorials first

#

you'll get it, the movement system isn't the most intuitive but once you have it down it's seamless

idle fox
#

I think that was the next one but I needed a break

wary flame
#

also take this

lime jungleBOT
# wary flame

Fleet 'Oak Softkill' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Moral Judgement : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
  Value Failing : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun PD Missile Sensor]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-210 Activest Decoy : DIRECT - NONE - NONE [7pts]
Oak_Softkill.png
wary flame
#

for when you're done tutorialising

idle fox
#

activest decoy

wary flame
#

I upgraded the starter fleet

#

active decoys are size 1 superchaff that goes in the chaff launcher

idle fox
#

yeah I've played from the depths

wary flame
#

the activest decoy is a size 2 missile with the warhead replaced by an omnidirectional radar jammer

#

fire at incoming wave of anti-radiation missiles and watch them all go off chasing it

idle fox
#

in ftd you can attach them to a harpoon cable and have them float on their engines 100m above your ship like a balloon

wary flame
#

little more niche these days, it got a nerf, but it handles one particular meta missile threat decently so I kept it in the Fleet For Newbies

#

because that needs 100% Nonsense coverage more than it needs slight point efficiency

idle fox
#

and any radar missiles are like "oh shit go for that enormous blimp"

#

anyway thanks

wary flame
#

you can just shove other peoples' fleet files into the Nebulous fleets folder and they work fine

#

very handy feature that

#

for the longest time the most effective anti-missile measure was to get an ablative corvette and put it in front of your real ship

#

not so any longer but it was quite funny

idle fox
#

royal navy conducting de-mining exercises, circa 1982

junior heron
#

I will never relent on this

glad aurora
#

I did the unthinkable and gave my activest decoy a name that isn't any of the three 😔

junior heron
#

you've escaped the naming game, you've won

#

you're free

idle fox
#

naming things is the most important part

junior heron
#

it's also the hardest part of nebulous

idle fox
#

I'm literally so good at naming things

#

that's the only part I am good at

oak shell
#

It's an important skill for Nebulous

grand pine
oak shell
#

OSP bulkers can broadside
Beam Solomons sometimes can as well

grand pine
#

only beam? damn :(

oak shell
#

I suppose you could make a broadsiding rail Axford or Solomon

#

But a gun Solomon broadsiding loses to an OSP bulker doing the same thing

rigid bison
#

OSP bulkers are designed to broadside

grand pine
#

i wish i knew the use case for mass drivers..

#

like, is it intended to be used against heavily armoured targets? or against lightly-armored?

junior heron
#

slapping small ships out in the open mostly
need a good bloodhound to track for them

grand pine
#

bloodhound and 2 track correlators?

sly glade
#

notable caveat is that the reason broadsiding is bad for other ships is also a factor for bulkers. (the reason broadsiding is bad is because you get hit more easily at worse angles and more of your components get knocked out more quickly and tough components can't tank for weaker components.)

#

it's just that bulkers are designed and played around this fact. (and, of course, don't have the option not to broadside.)

grand pine
#

i see:(

#

i just want to broadside with as many 3 barrel cannons as i can, but i know it's not a good idea for a noob

wary flame
#

gun axfords can also broadside but you exclusively need to do that at ranges where OSP can't murder you instantly for it

grand pine
#

but do those ranges exist?:(

wary flame
#

take the 4 track correlator spyglass and apply double 450 axford from 9.5-10km

supple sonnetBOT
#

thinking of, what's a "shootable" tq?

grand pine
#

10 km? dear god

olive blade
#

I'd generally recommend avoiding broadsiding as ans

#

like it has its place but 95% of the time being nose on is right

wary flame
#

ANS ability to stack up 3-4 capital ships and murder things from 10km with impunity is one of their best assets right now

idle fox
#

what's ANS?

supple sonnetBOT
#

ANS is one of the two factions, they are the one with proper modern warships and have the fancy missles

idle fox
#

oh ok

#

I guess there's only one in the demo

supple sonnetBOT
#

That would be ANS, as they are the ones wiht a turotial being the older of the two factions

wet root
#

An Axford that's trading fire with a Bulker dies a lot faster if it's also eating MD fire

dark dawn
#

So, question, does anyone have good ideas for a dual Ocello build? I've officially given up on making OSP-specific ships work with my playstyle and just want to play ANS-but-worse instead.

supple sonnetBOT
#

You want like the Battlecruiser build, the fleet protector 3000, or doubble bubble/omni-softkill?

dark dawn
#

Uhh
The first two sound fun honestly

#

I would like to become Jellicoe's most explosive soldier

supple sonnetBOT
#

it's not a dual ocello build, but it's what we play when we have to do osp. sit out in the middle of nowhere and play fire support, with bonus torps to smack other spotters with

📎 Ocello_Rails_GHO-SPRSMCK.fleet
lime jungleBOT
#

Fleet 'Ocello Rails GHO-SPRSMCK' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

        The Lacy Clash : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Rail PD EWar Sensor]
         Tell and Pawn : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Rail Missile PD Sensor]
Absolutely Perfect Dog : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [PD]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
CM-4-2 Don't Look At Me : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [9pts]
Ocello_Rails_GHO-SPRSMCK.png
lime jungleBOT
# supple sonnet it's not a dual ocello build, but it's what we play when we have to do osp. sit ...

Fleet 'Ocello Rails GHO-SPRSMCK' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

        The Lacy Clash : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Rail PD EWar Sensor]
         Tell and Pawn : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Rail Missile PD Sensor]
Absolutely Perfect Dog : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [PD]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
CM-4-2 Don't Look At Me : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [9pts]
Ocello_Rails_GHO-SPRSMCK.png
supple sonnetBOT
#

the first one is preaty basic, 450's, 4 AE's, tripple drivs, paralax /w a bullseye and balistic PD and a chaff box with the rest of the points used to fit whatever else you want.

dark dawn
#

Railcello?

#

Also, triple drives? how do you stuff that in?

supple sonnetBOT
#

Railcellos are unironicaly preaty good, and the ocello has three drives, and a big whip/2x small whips provide a decent amount of power

dark dawn
#

I'm not entirely certain here

88280727c98dc37cd5bb66e0b2041e84.png
#

But I'll see what I can do here

supple sonnetBOT
#

put a micro or two in, that shoud fix things

toxic scaffold
lime jungleBOT
radiant sable
#

sarissasdevicecellos videogames

dark dawn
#

250mms, all the sarissas, this is
Yeah, 'odd' I think is a good descriptor

#

I'm gonna stick to just Some Sarissas rather than All The Sarissas

olive blade
#

I don't think railcellos need the full drive set as much as gun ones

dark dawn
#

And 450s, because I like big guns

#

I mean, double railcellos feel
A) Cowardly, B) Too close to what I play already which is mass driver bulkers which are fun but also bad for teamplay.

supple sonnetBOT
#

cowardice is a virtue

#

Honner is when you step into the trap becosue your opent asked nicaly

olive blade
#

I think guncellos are a relatively uncomplicated build

dark dawn
#

Well, it's less 'honour' and more 'playing objectives'

olive blade
#

I'd say it's less honour more contributing to the front line and cap count

supple sonnetBOT
#

you're playing osp someone else can play caps

#

osp gets so many shuttles you shouldn't worry about fitting them into every single fleet of yours

olive blade
#

Sure they can but I think you need some fleets that cover each too

dark dawn
lime jungleBOT
# dark dawn Alright, tear it to ribbons

Fleet 'AttemptCellos' is composed of 1 ship which costs 1500 points:

Fad and Boa : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-12 Flyswatter : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
AttemptCellos.png
dark dawn
#

It runs at 101% reactor power and definitely not enough ammo elevators

mint sinew
supple sonnetBOT
#

Swap te defenders out for Pavieses as they are the same coust but pavieses are better over all

dark dawn
#

You sure? Even against torpedoes?

wet root
#

I definitely recommend not 3x whips for your first Ocello build, considering how important bowtanking is for them

supple sonnetBOT
#

Yes they do the same damage and have a spread so they hit corking toprs more often

dark dawn
wet root
#

Twice the damage even

olive blade
#

I'd swap one drive for a yard at least and stuff the mag with every 450 shell you can

wet root
#

Also I think you can get another 200 ammo in that mag

dark dawn
#

I'm getting very conflicting information.

#

Also I just realised the ship doesn't have enough crew somehow

#

My life is pain

olive blade
#

Core build looks mostly right

#

You can trim the dc a lot

wet root
#

I also absolutely recommend the 4th AE, a lot of people run 3x AE then complain that Ocellos are bad because they lose gunfights to Axfords that didn't skimp out

wet root
#

Tri-drive is good on Ocellos but if you're not running rails you can use micros to foot the power bill

supple sonnetBOT
#

Yeah and if your going Guncello over PDcello you don't need nything mroe then maybe soem flack and Pavise's

olive blade
#

I'd put a disco on the second assuming this is a pair in place of the dazzler

wet root
#

I mean. You can have good guns and good PD in 1500, and I'm pretty dubious about not bringing the latter

olive blade
#

I do like bringing some of the fancy pd

#

Having a pair of sarissas on one really complicates ans missile play

#

In paired ocellos I like 2 sarissas on one, 2 aurora on the other

#

To keep the power manageable

dark dawn
#

Attempt #2

lime jungleBOT
# dark dawn

Fleet 'AttemptCellos' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Fad and Boa : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
Leave Jumbo : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
AttemptCellos.png
wet root
#

My current setup is 5 Sarissas across the pair plus a full suite of softkill, but I also build for the long-range duels where Sarissas work best

olive blade
#

5 is intense but I can see it

supple sonnetBOT
#

you can pretty safely drop flares for more chaff

wet root
#

I think you can save some points by putting your second berthing in a smaller slot

#

Also a fun little trick is you can put the Bullseye in the mount behind the bridge and make it really hard to hit

olive blade
#

The 20mm count might have to be a bit higher

wet root
#

If you don't mind irradiating your bridge crew

olive blade
#

But this is looking pretty good

wet root
#

Oh yeah you want double the 20mm that ANS would bring, because double fire rate on Pavise

dark dawn
olive blade
#

Weirdly no

wet root
#

Nope! FCRs can see through your ship for some reason

olive blade
#

I only found this out a couple of weeks back

wet root
#

You can also use this with the BB's pockets and the Axford bottom mounts

dark dawn
#

That's
Extremely silly

wet root
#

Yep

olive blade
#

Yeah

wet root
#

All radars can actually

#

Which means you can put an EWR back there

supple sonnetBOT
#

And you shoudl replace the lrge DC lockers in the bow wiht Reinforced ones, they are the same price and wont fall off from stray rounds penatrating

wet root
#

It's... amusing, but not something I've found worthwhile

#

Oh, yeah, you want reinforced or low-value compartments in the nose, since those will eat the most fire

dark dawn
#

Right, I have
Something It looks like

#

Both are running a bit short on power but this is OSP so that's on brand

#

105% hopefully won't kill me

wet root
#

Ocellos are pretty good for running low on power

dark dawn
#

Also 40 m/s flank speed, I can see those being very fun

wet root
#

Since you've got 2500mw that you'll only be using when the PD is firing

dark dawn
#

Oh right, Sarissas eat power like candy

wet root
#

You can afford to lose some 450 fire rate when your Sarissas are busy

wet root
supple sonnetBOT
#

unironically putting All The Shit in the nose works super well. putting a lot of systems, esp reinforced ones and ones with high damage thresholds means that you can just kind of shrug off everything

📎 Axford_Shipkiller_M-TAC-EOEACT.fleet
Lark (They/Them) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) Oh, yeah, you want reinforced or low-value compartments in the nose, since those will eat the most f…

lime jungleBOT
#

Fleet 'Axford Shipkiller M-TAC-EOEACT' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

    The Fool : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun Missile PD Sensor]
Six of Wands : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
   The Tower : 'Sprinter' class Corvette []
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
    SGM-H-348 Anelace : CRUISE - PSV(EO)/ACT(RADAR) - HEKP [53pts]
SGM-H-349 Misericorde : CRUISE - PSV(EO)/ACT(RADAR) - HEKP [73pts]
Axford_Shipkiller_M-TAC-EOEACT.png
lime jungleBOT
# supple sonnet unironically putting All The Shit in the nose works super well. putting a lot of...

Fleet 'Axford Shipkiller M-TAC-EOEACT' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

    The Fool : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun Missile PD Sensor]
Six of Wands : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
   The Tower : 'Sprinter' class Corvette []
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
    SGM-H-348 Anelace : CRUISE - PSV(EO)/ACT(RADAR) - HEKP [53pts]
SGM-H-349 Misericorde : CRUISE - PSV(EO)/ACT(RADAR) - HEKP [73pts]
Axford_Shipkiller_M-TAC-EOEACT.png
wet root
#

Reinforced nose stack is very stronk

dark dawn
lime jungleBOT
# dark dawn Right, here's the Final* fleet

Fleet 'AttemptCellos' is composed of 2 ships that cost 2996 points:

Fad and Boa : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
Leave Jumbo : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
AttemptCellos.png
dark dawn
#

Wait, hold up

wet root
#

Get you four more chaff in there!

dark dawn
#

Okay, the names didn't update, I named them 'Renown' and 'Repulse'

supple sonnetBOT
#

Also you still have a large locker in the noise, I think

dark dawn
#

That and I got 4 points worth of extra chaff

wet root
#

But yeah looks solid

dark dawn
#

Unless you mean the four slots

#

Out of those four there's two reinforced DCs and a berthing to absorb damage

wet root
#

The turn rate on them will be painful but just gotta plan well ahead

supple sonnetBOT
#

Ok the numbering of the stack there is difeirnt hten i thoughtit was,

dark dawn
dark dawn
wet root
#

You could be going faster and turning better...

#

The Sundrive calls...

glad aurora
#

make the whip/whip/yard ocello

#

you know you want to

dark dawn
#

No

#

I like having lights on

supple sonnetBOT
#

Big dragon twin sundrive is a intersting setup

wet root
dark dawn
#

Yeah, 100 hitpoints instead of 250

wet root
#

My fancy Ocello has Raidersun, which I like a lot

#

But yeah Suns are a very risky proposition

wet root
dark dawn
#

Ah, yeah

idle fox
#

went and finished the tutorials, setting the missile waypoints was really cool if a bit fiddly, and I definitely got hit at least once by each salvo of training missiles

#

I think this game is too much for my brain atm, stuck it on the steam wishlist so maybe if it goes on sale

wary flame
#

the trick for missile waypointing is to put the camera "behind" where you want the missile to go and fly the waypoint around in over-the-shoulder third person

#

Ocellos are going to lose 1v1 gunfights to Axfords pretty much no matter what you do, Axfords have the nanomachines son regeneration and better module layouts

dire harness
wet root
#

This is why I have two CICs in mine

#

(Not that that's uncommon)

grand pine
#

wait you can have more than 1 cic?

glad aurora
#

Yep, though it's usually not worth it.

wet root
#

Basic CIC + Reinforced is low cost for a ton of value, 2x Reinforced is generally more survivable than 1x Citadel for 2/3 the price

glad aurora
#

Mm. I suppose I've just rarely seen it done myself - for the cost and module slot of a basic CIC on an Axford, I could buy another DC locker to keep the CIC that already doesn't die alive + a bunch of other stuff so I'm not a flying brick.

wet root
#

A basic CIC costs less than a quarter as much as a DC locker

#

But my personal preference is definitely 2xRCIC

#

Slightly pricier, but not being at risk of getting your CIC redded out in a gunfight (which is generally a death sentence) is huge

glad aurora
#

I suppose I see that less as protection in a gunfight and more as protection against torpedo snipes - which is valid, I've had viable Axfords that got CIC sniped because they got caught the wrong way before - but if I'm taking a full volley of torpedoes off the nose, I'm pretty sure that's a dead ship anyway.

wet root
#

It can do surprisingly well against missile strikes if you have them positioned on opposite sides, as long as you don't lose the engines there's usually enough components between them that only one will get knocked out from salvos that don't get a perfect broadside hit

#

This is mostly in the context of Ocellos and Vauxes, I should mention. I do have 2xRCIC in my current Axford, but I've not played it enough to have a good sense of how effective it is on them

glad aurora
#

Oh, yeah, I have so much DC in my vauxes I could easily give one up for a second RCIC these days

#

Good shout

wary flame
#

one huge benefit of multiple CICs is that if your primary CIC gets redded, you aren't stunlocked until you can repair it under fire

wet root
#

And unlike Auxes you can actually maintain heading and dodge with a backup CIC

#

Plus maintain jamming

wary flame
#

everything I have bigger than a raines or cargo feeder is packing 2 CICs these days

#

besides some vaux designs with 4x aux steering instead

wet root
#

IMO for those you might as well go RCIC+BCIC+3x Aux

#

Or wait no those are in the nose stack, disregard

wary flame
#

well handled vauxes also don't lose CIC often

#

it's a small slot and well placed, same as MNs

wet root
#

Yep, mostly the second CIC has saved my bacon as I've been getting better at running Softkill Vauxes

#

When I inevitably screw up and let a gale or rocket strike through

#

Might well remove it eventually

glad aurora
#

hm. How many MLS-3s do you even put on an Ocello

#

I'm 99% sure one isn't enough

wet root
#

I think you usually use VLS-3s on Torpcellos

wary flame
#

you either go all VLS on a conventional design or mix it up with double MLS for extra channels, and one VLS to dump the other half

#

which requires a fair amount of micro

#

personally I'm sure there's something to be had with single VLS, double 250 turret, but I haven't actually proved that yet

glad aurora
#

Are MLS-3s boosted by AEs?

mint sinew
#

Sure are

wet root
#

I believe so

glad aurora
#

Huh, so that's why the 4AEs gave me the good stuff.

mint sinew
#

It makes missile bulkers with roof guns more threatening with guns than you'd expect too

glad aurora
#

Yeah, I think this design might actually have some meat to it. Hm.

wary flame
#

600pt torp MN with three or four MLS-3s is pretty mean actually

#

but these days it's been obsoleted by the cooler variants of torp/mine tugboat

glad aurora
#

Staring into the void as I realize I'll have to go down to two drives to make this design work. Hate.

wary flame
#

what I consider the Standard Issue Torpcello is this thing, made by Hunter

#

who I spent ages butting heads with over container balance but is a good sort

# 
SGT-323 Brick-8 Block X-CMArd : DIRECT - CMD/HOJ(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [12pts]```
#

even if his missile names are gibberish

#

I think going above 1900pts is getting into overinvestment territory, spamming expensive decoy torpedoes doesn't really do it

olive blade
#

yeah big agree

#

though honestly

#

I'd personally put like one gun or somethng on it

glad aurora
lime jungleBOT
# glad aurora consider the following:

Fleet 'NG Wheel' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Salt The Earth : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Missile Gun EWar PD Sensor]
Burn the Woods : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Missile Gun EWar PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-113 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
   SGT-305 Pike : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [12pts]
NG_Wheel.png
wary flame
#

that torpedo count is almost certainly inadequate, but you can slap one person pretty hard, I suppose

wary flame
glad aurora
#

Is 24 torpedoes inadequate? That's about what I usually run on ANS.

wet root
wary flame
#

very tight on max potential damage

#

the aesthetic thing to do here is to put the 450 turret on the nose but the nose mount is so jank

#

I'll do it anyway

wet root
#

Also worse traverse than the belly

wary flame
#

call it a gejankenexperiment

glad aurora
#

generally speaking, I think CMD/SAH should be able to guarantee hits?

#

debating whether I want to go to CMD/[SAH]

wary flame
#

bow turret also shields one of the torpedo mounts from frontal gunfire somewhat

#

which is nice

supple sonnetBOT
#

CMD/WAKE works and wont get nerfed in a bugfix

wet root
#

Or does it fly straight under jamming with reject thanks to the recent changes

olive blade
#

tbh I'd go SAH/CMD

supple sonnetBOT
#

Also i think those ocellos are carring less torps in tehre mag then would fit in a VLS

wary flame
#

if CMD is working you want the CMD guidance first, Ocellos get the good radar

olive blade
#

yeah but you can choose if you want the illums on

wet root
#

Swap the Flood for a Spotlight and go SAH/CMD seems reasonable

olive blade
#

so SAH/CMD if you don't want the SAH you just kill the illums

wet root
#

It does mean if they're very fancy they can illum their own chaff

#

But that's mostly a theoretical concern lol

mint sinew
#

I didn't think illumination worked between teams

olive blade
#

I guess yeah

wet root
#

Because chaff is hostile to everyone

glad aurora
#

Why flood over spotlight if I don't need the extra 2km range w/torpedoes?

mint sinew
#

I know your teammates can punk your SAH if they aren't careful

wet root
glad aurora
wet root
#

Illuminates chaff less naturally, and much easier to manually aim

supple sonnetBOT
#

even with 4AE's the reload tiem is going to be longer then the programing time in a VLS

Ash And Gold ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) On one hand yes, on the other I couldn't fill the VLS in 1500 per ship (and with the MLS I get the b…

glad aurora
#

Considering how my last run-ins with ANS capitals have gone, I'm fond of the idea of just having an 8-torp strike in the back pocket as soon as I see them

supple sonnetBOT
#

Your still doing it in the worst way posible

wary flame
#

mine greatly dislike ocellos torping them, because they only have the one disco ball between them and not a lot of defender

#

but if you're running two, just use the base 3 prog channels to throw six torps total out of side-mounted VLS

#

or add one bus to shoot a full pack of 4 each

glad aurora
#

Is the VLS really that much better than the MLS?

supple sonnetBOT
#

if you don't have the mag depth yeah

wary flame
#

sidegrade, but you get to keep all your guns and torps program very quickly

wet root
#

Better flexibility, less time between launches, don't have to pay in mag size

wary flame
#

I am still 50pts over on the jank machine

#

damn

#

time to cut annoying amounts of DC

wet root
#

And Ocellos have enough prog channels that unless you're running 3xMLS-3 you're not getting the one big benefit MLS have

wary flame
lime jungleBOT
# wary flame

'1500 Torpcello' is a 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser that costs 1500 points.

1500_Torpcello.png
wary flame
#

the gejankenexperiment

#

torps one or two things and then pos fires the drives

#

again, alarmingly low missile count but you can get two

glad aurora
#

ocello with no auroras

#

horrifying

wet root
#

As much of a meme as it is I think this is a ship where putting in a Sundrive makes sense

#

They're surprisingly hard to kill on a CC and you need the speed and maneuver

wary flame
#

ideally this is alll fairly hardened

wet root
#

My concern would be the VLS, they're fairly squishy and relatively exposed

#

Though tbf "relatively exposed" on an Ocello is not very exposed

wary flame
#

upper VLS is slightly shielded by an actual gun turret

#

lower VLS is hopefully out of angle of fire

#

but yeah, these are jank

#

still, two will be a good pub game meme fleet

wet root
#

Why even Nebulous if not to jank

wary flame
#

they are named *Gejankenexperiment * and Aufthebunga

glad aurora
lime jungleBOT
# glad aurora `what the fuck is a survivability`

Fleet 'NG 2 Wheel' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Salt The Earth : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun Missile EWar PD Sensor]
Burn the Woods : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun Missile EWar PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-113 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
   SGT-305 Pike : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR)/CMD - HE SHAPED [12pts]
NG_2_Wheel.png
glad aurora
#

40 m/s flank, as one does

wet root
#

The two missing pikes on the Burn the Woods bother me more than they should

#

I do like the fleet otherwise

glad aurora
#

I can fit them if I don't bring any AMMs, but that bothers me

#

debating whether it's worth it right now

noble zodiac
#

split them 15/15 maybe?

wet root
#

The obvious answer is to cut DC

wet root
noble zodiac
#

hmm

wary flame
#

the interruption jammer does let you go for a counter-meta skew here

#

if they bring offmeta cruise spam they can dunk you with EO S2H spam or something but the CMD bubble is good insurance against most nonsense

wet root
#

I'd be tempted to go for the double bubble

#

But that would mean you have to run them together

wary flame
lime jungleBOT
# wary flame

Fleet 'Jank Torpcellos' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Gejankenexperiment : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Missile Gun PD EWar Sensor]
  Aufthebungabunga : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Missile Gun PD EWar Sensor]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
                  SGT-323 Prowler : DIRECT - CMD/HOJ(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [12pts]
Jank_Torpcellos.png
glad aurora
#

Why pinpoint over bullseye, for reference?

wet root
#

Harder to jam in torp range

glad aurora
#

Huh. Interesting.

wary flame
#

also far cheaper and I don't need to lock outside 5km

#

Im pretty sure this isn't actually good but it might be fun

glad aurora
#

If I swap pinpoints and go with Parallax/Pinpoint tracks, I can afford a full 16/16 and some goodies on the side

#

🤔

#

(probably more AMMs)

wet root
#

Tbh I'm a lot more wary of this than any other Torpcello build I've encountered

#

Every time I've run into a 1xTorpcello it's just died

#

Probably just sample size bias there though

glad aurora
#

nah, it's exactly why I refused to go 1x torpcello myself either

#

and why these have double rcic, etc

#

especially if I'm giving up auroras and sarissas, these are going to die to something like my own cmd/eo hybrids even through disco ball

wary flame
#

cannot tell where you've saved the cash over mine

#

I was tempted by the T20s actually

wet root
wary flame
#

probably

glad aurora
lime jungleBOT
# glad aurora

Fleet 'NG 2 Wheel' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Burn the Woods : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun Missile EWar PD Sensor]
Salt The Earth : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun Missile EWar PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-113 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
   SGT-305 Pike : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR)/CMD - HE SHAPED [12pts]
NG_2_Wheel.png
glad aurora
#

even with only 2ae, he-hc 100mm will shred small ANS ships nicely from what I see in testing range

#

think this is the version I'll be running - 15 chaff and 8 AMMs is fine

wet root
#

I thought HEHC can't pen without plasma, even on Sprinters? HE or grape definitely work well though

glad aurora
#

Really? Huh. Must've been shooting through torp holes if it was doing damage, I suppose.

wet root
#

Yeah, 8cm pen vs 8cm armor apparently

glad aurora
#

In that case, I'll probably go 1000/750 instead of 750/1000

wet root
#

But yeah 100mm shreds

#

You might want some AP for Vauxes

wary flame
#

grab some grape, some HE and 250-500 HEHC just for pos firing torped targets to death

#

don't need it as a main round

wet root
#

(Plus it does at least tickle Axfords' front thrusters, which might matter if they're trying to back away as you close to torp range)

#

Yeah, pos firing 100mm works

glad aurora
#

alright, time to see if there are any pubulouses open

#

there's only so much test data I can get from the solomon dies if you shoot 24 torpedoes at it

glad aurora
#

@wary flame not sure what the deal is with insufficient corking, since it worked fine in the test room

#

given the battle report, genuinely think they might've just run out of range and detonated and that looked like them getting shot down

olive blade
#

cork eats a decent bit of range

glad aurora
#

yep, that was probably it

#

using S3H has spoilt me, I look at "range: 3400" and it feels like I'm practically hugging them

#

(and it turns out that I need to hug them even closer)

grand pine
#

is there a size 3 that isn't a hybrid?

noble zodiac
#

yeah

#

the Pilum torpedo

#

(aka SGT-300, S3T, or just torpedo)

grand pine
#

sergeant 300?)

noble zodiac
#

Space Guided Torpedo

idle fox
#

I was disappointed that they don't call all the missiles torpedoes, but then I saw that it's a term reserved for the special giant one and I respect that

noble zodiac
#

just like the S2s are SGM for Space Guided Missile

#

(and S1s, and S2Hs, and S3Hs...)

grand pine
#

ah

#

wait there are size 2 hybrids??

noble zodiac
#

... yeah??

#

always has been

idle fox
#

there's an irl missile called the sergeant

grand pine
wary flame
#

the torpedoes are range nothing but have really good damage and PD penetration

idle fox
#

do custom badges work in multiplayer

glad aurora
#

Yes.

grand pine
#

keep in mind file size and resolution restrictions

idle fox
#

oh I already made one

#

idk why but I woke up and did it

grand pine
#

what's your badge?:)

idle fox
#

I thought it would be fun to be like "navy? what do you mean, we're just a logistics company specialising in munitions delivery"

#

anyway I bought the game

wary flame
#

Welcome to boats

grand pine
#

one of us, one of us

wary flame
#

Sadly the OSP combat container ship isn't amazing these days but all their other freighters are great

#

If you want to ensure same day shipping you can build a bulk hauler to outrun a light cruiser

grand pine
#

long haul?

idle fox
#

I will have to try some bot matches later today, or maybe tomorrow, got rellies coming

#

you said to start with the double axford fleet right misc

grand pine
#

i sure love building a ship

image.png
#

i have once again forgot: pavise or bastion?

grand pine
lime jungleBOT
grand pine
lime jungleBOT
arctic magnet
#

guns on both sides? luxurious

#

the usual casemate bulker has 4 mounts, only on one side since that's like, a lot of points to drop on guns that won't do anything in most fights

grand pine
#

wat can i say, i stupid

arctic magnet
#

if you're using the large module slots for the mags, you absolutely don't need two magazines - like, you're never using 3000 rounds of 450

arctic magnet
grand pine
#

i don't have 3k rounds of 450

#

i have 3k of 100mm

arctic magnet
#

oh right, that's 100mm

#

that's probably still waaay more than you're going to use

grand pine
#

:(

#

did i even pick the right guns? these are with 25 degrees elevation/turn, there also were the ones with 15

arctic magnet
#

are these the double 450mm casemates? if yes, then they're probably fine. idk if anyone uses the 450 singles

mint sinew
#

Single 450mm casemates are gone a few patches back

grand pine
#

i sadly am not sure about my spotter frigate OR my PD (which doesnt exist) :(

mint sinew
#

Building bulkers is a bit of an arcane science. Conventional wisdom has a few things for this build, but there are reasons to break all of this advice:

  • only load one broadside with casemates. Ideally you aren't getting surrounded, so with so planning and scouting you can get away with only half the guns
  • use a single mag. You have access to the 8x3x8 compartments which means only the missiliest of bulkers need a spare mag
  • bring a Damage Control Complex (DCX). It's the premium DC module in the game and a large part of why bulkers are so durable. You can take away from your large DC budget for this and bring a rapid or two instead. DCX + rapid > 2x large DC
  • reinforce at least one of the CICs, it buys you a lot more up time (especially with a DCX)
  • round up your 100mm to multiples of 250
grand pine
#

or what to waste 1k points on, surely not cap shuttles

mint sinew
#

Like the core concept of the bulker build is solid, the internals just need tuning

grand pine
#

the heck is damage control complex? i havent seen it

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also 1k is a multiple of 250

mint sinew
mint sinew
grand pine
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what about the ship with the blyathound?

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sorry i am just bad at building fleets

mint sinew
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It'll do the job pretty well. I wouldn't bother with both radar jammers. (Replacing the other with a partially filled vls-1 or something)

mint sinew
grand pine
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i am a bit concerned with the lack of PD which i cant fit unless i sacrifice more 100mms on the bulker and i dont wnt it because more guns = more lead

mint sinew
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As to the other third of the fleet, you've got a few easy options:

  • cap ships
  • pd tug
  • plasma/gun monitor
  • a second combat bulker
grand pine
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i cant afford a second unless i cut off half the guns

mint sinew
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2 pavise is about what I run on equivalent builds. The difference is I also tend to add in a 10-30 AMMs to help out and/or some tools for soft killing missile strikes

If you want to lean harder on turreted PD (works more on auto pilot, but less efficient) a pair of tugs with a grazer, casemate gun and some pavise/bastions will do well enough

mint sinew
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But you can get a solid enough 250mm bulker for ~800pts (if a bit light on DC and pd)

grand pine
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when will i remember to pick pavise and not bastion

mint sinew
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I'm heading off, but try something like +2 PD/gun tugs and round out your budget with a shuttle or two. Should make a solidly flexible fleet to work from

oak shell
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One more tip for Saper: put a reinforced CIC on instead of two basics

wary flame
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or two reinforced, which is my standby

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I pad out bulker fleets with a billion empty cap shuttles but that's probably not a great decision if you're new

grand pine
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but isn't 2 reinforced cic expensive? and I'm afraid I'll put them in the wrong place:(

wary flame
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for axfords, you want one in one of the three compartments behind the lower C5 turret, since that's the safest spot, and one higher up, either top of the central stack or the slightly offset compartment just above it

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as long as they're split up enough that one shell won't hit both you're fine

grand pine
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i.. thought you were talking about that shitty bulker..

wary flame
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for bulkers put one in the back and one in the front

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make sure there's one compartment that provides restores in the back and front too, I usually put reinforced locker and large storage in the nose and DC Complex in the back

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gets more complicated if you're doing the more esoteric bulker layouts but for broadsiding you just want to have redundancy

wary flame
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the mine tugs are so good

image.png
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one axford dead outright from full, one severely damaged and cleaned up easily by containers

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won us the game despite us having a middie that did nothing and my torptugs being hardkilled by sarissa spam, as well as a severe frontline fleet shortage

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may need to tweak the torptug design but they capped good

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also, from the neb server

junior heron
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has anyone reached that rank?

wary flame
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nobody has reached Vice Admiral

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let alone Grand Admiral

olive blade
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I do think after a point people do read a lot into neb ranks

supple sonnetBOT
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Folks asume that the more tiem you put into the game the better you are, wich like is not true

wet root
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I suspect in practice one of the biggest differences between a pair of golds and a pair of silvers is the golds have probably played together a lot more

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Though I do think more experience does matter a fair amount in Neb, in terms of being more reliable at recognizing fleet archetypes and map familiarity

supple sonnetBOT
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It dose but like not everyone learns form experience equally, l.ike there person who started the whole "450 need to kill shuttles as BB can't stop them from capping when the BB is next to a point" thing in Bal-con was a gold

formal tiger
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harpy

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oop

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that was intended for the search bar, don't mind me

wet root
supple sonnetBOT
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Yeah, I would like to know how strong it is overall, and how much of it is just self selections form the foks who were doing preaty decently as blues and just keped playing VS those who struggled at first

quiet quiver
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Maybe I had lucky shots tho

wet root
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It depends on their angle, if they're roof on towards you you'll always overpen

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But bow shots can detonate I think

quiet quiver
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Oh it looked like all overpens but still doing enough to kill anyway

wet root
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Hm, guess they didn't bring or lost their DC? P sure overpens can't grey even a basic CIC out

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Oh wait 30 damage nvm

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They can

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TIL

quiet quiver
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Also TBF I wasn't paying attention to every volley, it's possible one lucky shot detonated and that did it

supple sonnetBOT
#

Hunh that's better at braking RCIC on a shuttle then RPF is by a decent margin

Lark (They/Them) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) Oh wait 30 damage nvm

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we feel like 450 shouldn't be a better solution than the type of ammunition meant to deal with these kinds of ships

wet root
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I'd definitely take RPF over 450 vs shuttles

supple sonnetBOT
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Ehhh 120 RPF was more meant so sprinters and frigs could have some PD when if they brought guns and no proper PD, and then got nerfed in that role during the frigpocalips becsoue it was to stong

wet root
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Even if it has a hard time greying the CIC, RPF will stop them from launching rockets much faster than 450 will

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It shreds surface mounts and thrusters

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(Note that RPF is both higher damage per round and rounds per minute, it just deals damage in a bunch of small instances so it's bad at breaking DT)

supple sonnetBOT
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that being said 120 HE is better then both 120 RPF and 450HE at puting a shuttle in the ground

wet root
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120 RPF until it stops then 120 HE until it smokes

supple sonnetBOT
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there are a lot of times wiht the duncans that we just go with 120 HE, but like they also can just get close enough and have enough volume of fire that it dose not matter that much

wet root
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Yeah, distance definitely impacts it a lot, much easier for shuttles to dodge 120HE at 7km than 3km

supple sonnetBOT
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higher dps that can't break dts is effectively no dps tho, right?

Lark (They/Them) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) (Note that RPF is both higher damage per round and rounds per minute, it just deals damage in a bunc…

wet root
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No, a red shuttle is a dead shuttle

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If it doesn't have weapons or thrusters you can HE it at your leisure

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Even if you forget and it manages to limp away, you've stopped it from doing what it came to do (probably rockets or jamming)

supple sonnetBOT
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And RPF dose have an advantg agenst rocket shuttels of killing the rockets after they launch

wet root
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120 RPF can also kill directly just through DC losses, crew trying to repair red thrusters are very vulnerable to RPF

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250 RPF can just break the DT on a lot of components by itself

supple sonnetBOT
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We do think that trying to kill a ship though DC crew anialation dose infict the most clazwitizian friction on your side and that sort of friction is the best assest a small ship brings to there team

wicked mirage
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What does clazwitizian mean?

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It's a cool word ^^

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Wait nevermind, I googled it. Very philosophical!

dark dawn
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So, I've found somewhat of a problem with bowtanking Ocellos

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The bow also has your antenna

supple sonnetBOT
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Thanks? but yeah small ships slowdown pushes as you should be beating each of them untill they pod wich takes soem time, and RPF takes longer and can eat the pods making it harder to tell wich ship in a group is dead. grante this is mostaly informed form our tendancy to play small ships and having fought a lot of capping fleets as small ships

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Only one of them, they do birng a spare as part of there hull coust like and axeford

TheLastShogun ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) The bow also has your antenna

wicked mirage
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<@&942093958551588904> Bideo Gamen anyvon?

dark dawn
noble zodiac
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fuck it

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we ball

quiet quiver
#

I'm down

glad aurora
#

Yeah, I'll do a quick videogamen.

noble zodiac
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gimme a bit to get out of bed tho

rigid bison
#

aight, sad as I am for loosing my Helldivers queue spot

dire harness
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i’ll be on in 30 or so if you’re still playing <3