Nebulous: Fleet Command

[wet root]

Have to be very on the ball about rocket Shuttles, but RaiderWhip means you can dodge rockets quite effectively

And every other missile you can softkill

My version runs a bit under 1200 points, not sure if you could squish them into 1000 to get the 3x Vaux fleet

But 2x Vaux plus some scouts or cappers is always a fine choice

[oak shell]

We could use another player in ERI #4

[glad aurora]

Interesting

[oak shell]

nvm we good

[glad aurora]

You can see if you scroll down my own iteration on that sort of thing

this

also, re-checking my HEI S3H, they do have a secondary seeker

all is good

update: things are not good, hardened skin hekp adds +5pts

[wet root]

Yeah, I just really like that the PDless ones can operate on their own, you can send one off to bully a bulker or take a point or kill some tugs without having to detach your entire fleet

[glad aurora]

well, 43pt hekp is fine, I'll just cut 30pts worth of softkill

[wet root]

What do you want the hardened skin for?

[glad aurora]

per the discussion below, more aurora resistance + survives bulker AMMs better (something I noticed testing it against my own bulker AMMs)

also, if we really think about it, wake missiles aren't real and I can take all my flares off

[wet root]

Ooh, adjusting AMM breakpoints is fun

Wake secondaries are very real but the flares won't help much against them

I rarely bother to bring more than a single decorative flare

[glad aurora]

yeah, I can fit 6x hardened skin cmd/sact hekp s3h if I go down to 4 active decoys / 4 activest decoys and cut flares

[olive blade]

flares help a bit against stairslikes

I find

they stop the whiparound behavior from being as lethal

[glad aurora]

(alternatively, I cut the last emergency s2h on the missile truck and put those points into softkill)

[wet root]

True, less important against OSP though, S2s don't have the same zwoop

[olive blade]

yeah less relevant for ans

[glad aurora]

yep, 5 active decoys / 4 activest decoys / 11 chaff / 2 flares

👍

[olive blade]

my ships seem to like firing the activist decoy randomly

any idea what is doing that

even with pdmsl set to manual

[wet root]

I think some people just set it to no targeted missile sizes to avoid that, so that might help

[olive blade]

ahh that might be it

[wet root]

Odd that it's firing against PDMSL settings though

[glad aurora]

pretty happy with this

at this point you just finish the ocello off with 250AP and the bulker with 250HE, they can't kill a CL at this point

actually, hold on, I forgot to jam their PD

[wet root]

Pretty important vs Sarissas, that

Might want to only use half your jammers though since the testing range is somewhat unrealistically close range

[glad aurora]

Yep, the Sarissas are what killed my S3H

when I jammed them, all of the HEKP got through and I lost two less HEI

(that said, my AMMs continue to maul my S2H)

[olive blade]

You can use the missile mounted jammers against amms

[glad aurora]

True, but I'm not sure if that's a great use for activest decoys

also: what do you do against monitors, just throw 250AP at them?

The missiles do nothing (relevant, though they smash up the surface mounts pretty well)

[quiet quiver]

Oh that's what the jammer on Biblically Accurate Vauxhaul is for. Good thing I didn't need to fight Ocellos

[bitter furnace]

1v1 Annihilation on Cliff is my favoured mode for vs-AI testing where they behave the overall best

[wary flame]

it's mostly for softkilling incoming Act[CMD], I need to go run some tests because jamming PD just decreases the range it gets lockons, and I need to figure out how much stage range I need to stage before auroras under one blanket at 9.5km range start hitting

[glad aurora]

it doesn't do much to auroras but it does do a lot to sarissas

sarissas just straight-up stop firing under two blankets at 8km, it seems

[wary flame]

also good, since sarissas rather maul the BAF's brand of reasonably slow direct-fire CMD

I think any decent Ocello should be packing sarissas and interrupt these days

because of the number of CMD missile bombers

[wet root]

Sarissa's FCRs are very vulnerable to jamming, so even once they start firing they'll be dramatically less accurate

[wet root]

Torps give MNs a big sad

(Also, Beams)

[glad aurora]

I put double sarissa on both of my ocellos, but I don't have enough room for interrupt if I also want to max my aurora count and provide some ballistic PD for the occasional S2 dump

[glad aurora]

fair, so if I see a MN fleet just back up and outrun them

[wet root]

ANS S2s are pretty rare, IMO softkill for really big dumps and BSHORTed Auroras for small ones is the way to go

Since the ballistic pd is so worthless against everything else

[glad aurora]

back when I originally made my Ocellos having one 20mm and one flak was nice

probably not necessary now (?)

[wet root]

I'm pretty dubious that that'll make a difference against many fleets, definitely won't save you from big gale swarms

[wary flame]

interrupt is by far the most important pick, because my god everything is CMD

sarissas are good cover for your scouts

I will have to go make Misc's Team Support Ocello at some point

[wet root]

I should probably try to fit in an interruptor on mine

Because wow is there a lot of cmd

Or maybe swap the floods for hangups

Since I'm more worried about saving my friends

[glad aurora]

what the fuck is a damage control

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'NG 3 Devil' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Salt The Earth : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
Burn the Woods : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]

[glad aurora]

power also isn't real, you don't need to have the interruptor on and fire sarissas at the same time and shoot your guns, that's silly

what is important? fast

also these being basically immune to 90% of ANS missiles in the meta

[quiet quiver]

Oh it's 3 micro reactors and a plant control, hahaha

[quiet quiver]

Plus at least one of the auroras will be masked at a time

[wet root]

That's still more restores than I have on my Ocellos lmao

(Admittedly same DC I just have a Reinforced

)

[quiet quiver]

Yeah that does seem like a normal amount of DC

4/9 compartment slots

[glad aurora]

I'm more thinking of the 2 restores/ship

[wet root]

Rapids don't really count as a full compartment of DC

[quiet quiver]

Okay fair

[glad aurora]

if the missiles don't hit you, you don't need restores

🙂

[fresh storm]

cannon jumpscare

[wet root]

But yeah Ocellos have to sac something to fit in 1500, and DC is the only option that doesn't impact peak combat effectiveness

[wet root]

This is why I run Raiders, Simply Do Not Get Hit

[glad aurora]

sometimes you just have to be faster than a gun vauxhall and with the same count of barrels

(well, one more barrel and two of 450)

[wet root]

Hmmmm

Do I really need any restores?

[glad aurora]

I just keep them around in case I lose all of my drives somehow

otherwise I'd say I'm good on restores and put those points into AMMs

[wet root]

Eh, the FM580 has 1k hp and 70 DT, it'll probably survive

[neat galleon]

Just don’t get hit lmao

[wet root]

Exactly!

Though ngl I'm slightly concerned because this brings me down to 3 DC teams which means I'll have to be more judicious than usual on the flanking

Wait, Hangups have 20k range? TIL

Always assumed they had 10k

[glad aurora]

nah, hangups have fantastic range

I've always used them on my ANS S3H carriers for that reason

[wet root]

Do Hangups go through rocks?

I'm now wondering how difficult it would be to bring like 6 Hangup Sprinters and simply cover the entire map in Hangup cones

[glad aurora]

I honestly don't know - never mattered for me because all my missiles are direct

[wet root]

Since if nobody is outside the cone the antenna strength doesn't matter, they'll all lose comms anyway

[glad aurora]

new griefing method unlocked: infinite hangup works

[wet root]

225 points for an ELINT/Hangup Sprinter

175 points for a radarless pure Hangup one

This might actually be a usable strategy

8 Hangup Sprinters, 3 with ELINT, for 1500 points, leaves you room for half a real fleet still

[glad aurora]

I presume you just throw MD monitors into the other 1500

[wet root]

Wrong faction

[glad aurora]

oh, lmao

whoops

railgun DD?

[wet root]

If I try running this I'll probably do something like a Softkill Vaux and a torp capper Sprinter

Or maybe just a Softkill Vaux and nine hangup Sprinters

Since they can cap in an emergency

This feels very cursed

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'HangupMax Baseline' is composed of 10 ships that cost 3000 points:

              Luna : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun EWar PD]
        Risk Avian : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Sensor EWar]
        Tray Bound : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Sensor EWar]
           Lackagh : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Sensor EWar]
     Eye of Wonder : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Sensor EWar]
            Venice : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Sensor EWar]
       Stale Parts : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [EWar]
Stolen Dilf Valour : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [EWar]
        Court Limp : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [EWar]
        Cred Steep : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [EWar]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-159 Shuttlesniffer : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]

[wet root]

I was curious which ships I've seen the most so I checked in my skirmish reports. I really should have expected this.

[sharp crow]

lol

I'm surprised you've seen the autumn less times than your ocellos

[wet root]

I've played those Ocellos a lot lol

[quiet quiver]

That's Echo and Dive?

[wet root]

Yep

[fresh storm]

I wasn't the first to die aside from the Beamstone Jumpscare so I'd say this went pretty well

either the training arc paid off or I was too cautious about the game

[rocky robin]

I died first a lot

💀

[wet root]

Better to be too cautious than too aggressive, at least when you're still starting

[fresh storm]

I'll be making a second version of the fleet with mines though because I love mines

I'm the children

[wet root]

Someone has to die first unfortunately, just a matter of practise

[fresh storm]

and I yearn

[rocky robin]

Container liner is also a juicy target

[wet root]

Ohhhh yeah ConL is the priority target

[fresh storm]

don't you have the range on your containers to waypoint them from the other end of the map?

[rocky robin]

Yes, but it's a lot harder to hit moving targets w/ that travel time

And some maps like Nyx's eye I do run into the limits of their range

And just sitting in one place is sort of risky

[wet root]

Knowing how people tend to move and getting a feel for the lead time is game knowledge that just takes practice

[fresh storm]

my conclusion from today is that I should spend more time going after correct targets for my weight class instead of holding the line to the last like a good private

[rocky robin]

That is

Generally true

[wet root]

Almost always better to fall back and focus on something else than to die holding the line

[rocky robin]

There is definitely a tech to just holding till the last on a capture point to troll the enemy team if most of them are going for it though

To like.. zombie over the finish line for tickets

[wet root]

Yeah, beaching yourself on a point is sometimes important

[fresh storm]

although my tugs/shuttles charging axfords with their one piddly gun and actually distracting them for half the game was amusing

[rocky robin]

If you are going to die, dying on a cap you hold is good too

Turns it into a ticking time bomb that could strip somebody's armor on their side trying to cap

Generally speaking tugs just aren't really good fighters

And shuttles are really just ambush fighters with rockets

For major fighting you want feeders or larger

[wet root]

The fun part is you can fit a salvo of 4 torps on a Tug, which is enough to threaten an Axford

So they have to respect you

[rocky robin]

Torpedoes are an exception yeah

Makes a tug scary

The big caveat of the tug and shuttle is that they're made of paper

[wet root]

(Or S2s, which I think are the more common choice for MMTs)

[fresh storm]

considering replacing the PD launchers on my shuttles that don't have torps already

[wet root]

Yep, Tug and Shuttle are very glass cannon

[fresh storm]

since people don't seem particularly inclined to missile my shuttles anyways

[rocky robin]

Arguably value in carrying a handful of decent S2s or cheap S3Hs for just obliterating shuttles to ensure they don't cheese you on back caps

But most people don't do that

[wet root]

IMO it's worth keeping the chaffbox on shuttles, but the PNET meta might differ from the pub one

[tulip vault]

I think dying first is a relatively unimportant thing to worry about

as lark said, if people die, someone did it first

it's more important to not die for free imo

[rocky robin]

Yeah was usually dying with 35k damage

Or a captial kill

So not too fussed over it

[fresh storm]

I can't fit mines into my fleet... reaching for the battle proven shuttles or can I

[lime jungle]

Fleet '03 - Destructive Interference' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

Merit and Marks : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun EWar PD Sensor]
Crate and Chick : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [PD Missile]
   Beep and Fun : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [PD Gun EWar]
 The Neat Modem : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Sensor Gun PD]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-112 No U : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [4pts]

[fresh storm]

quickly slapped the monitor together because I'm going to sleep

the antennas give it full hull integrity for 5 points each

I'll try to fit better engines on it tomorrow

thank you btw I like it

[mint sinew]

Empty container stack launchers give twice the durability for the same cost.

That then gives you cheap access to a few utility containers

[quiet quiver]

It's a little entertaining, the tankiness of strapping a rack of explosives to your hull (even decoy boxes are full of rocket fuel)

[olive blade]

Regular jammers don't so fairly sure hangups don't either

[misty storm]

whats the best way to do axford + firgate escorts rn? this is what ive got rn but im not sure if its the best

[lime jungle]

Fleet '450 CH + Utility Escorts' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

Owing Crust : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun PD Missile Sensor]
Molar Steel : 'Raines' class Frigate [EWar PD]
  Avid Fine : 'Raines' class Frigate [PD Gun]
Woven House : 'Raines' class Frigate [Gun PD]
 Iron Snake : 'Raines' class Frigate [PD Gun Sensor]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
            SGM-110 Block : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-171 Tribble Container : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
    SGM-299 Activer Decoy : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR) - NONE [8pts]

[wet root]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3135024722

Someone made a procgen map mod for Neb

As in, generates a new map each time you play

[supple sonnet]

Can you make it work on the dedacated server?

[wet root]

Going to try

Anyone available to hop on for a few minutes to test it out in 10ish mins when the server's up?

[supple sonnet]

Yeah we can help

Is it on Mainulus or testulus?

[wet root]

Mainulous

Er, I think

[junior heron]

sure

[wet root]

Okay, server's booted successfully

[glad aurora]

switch from testulous to mainulous
download: 1.02 GB
???

[supple sonnet]

Yeah it be like that sometimes

[glad aurora]

Let me know when y'all are done, I've got my game up

[wet root]

We're testing on non-dedicated server to see if it fixes the points being stacked all together

[glad aurora]

Ah, fair.

[wet root]

The lobby is up, password is lancer

[glad aurora]

Showing up as in progress

[wary flame]

Shame it doesn't produce procedural Mieville cities

[forest star]

Bas Lag Mentioned

[misty storm]

@sharp crow would you mind posting your axford + escorts fleet?

[wet root]

I feel like I've seen something that generates similar cities at some point

[wary flame]

re: earlier conversations about Ocellos, I'd probably call this my idea of a "stock" CC right now

PD might need some improvement to survive proper gale dump nonsense, but you can swap the floodlight for an aurora if you really want

has interrupt, para, bullseye, proper guns, floodlight for locking annoying sneaky sprinters and is reasonably durable with four restores and the aux-steering steel jaw

[lime jungle]

'Ocello wip' is a 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser that costs 1525 points.

[wary flame]

just a few golds

[wary flame]

we are (just) victorious in goldulous

but I need more wiggle on my S2s and more pavises on my shuttles

[fresh storm]

it'd be nice if there were more low level players

two golds left when they saw me join with my 0th level because they didn't want to pubstomp me lmao

[wary flame]

in the second commodore game we managed to squeeze out a win against forty tugs because they ran out of torpedoes before getting the double axford fleet

who did 52k beam damage while my cap sprinters were getting overrun baiting targets for my DD and getting a few licks in

[wary flame]

I will say, sometimes the stacks of new blues are too brave for their own good and I feel bad when I'm playing with four captains and commodores and they insist on charging at us

I should host some of those blue-only lobbies at some point because I like watching those matches

[olive blade]

I beat on a stack of golds with like one silver and some blues earlier

the ANS missile team complete with pure missile axford and pure missile axford except the bottom turret 450

which I was surprised to see work out

[wary flame]

oh yeah, you can absolutely flex on a lot of the commodores

there are even a couple of strangely bad rear admirals

[sharp crow]

rank inflation hits every game

[fresh storm]

I think I crave a mine/missile fleet

[olive blade]

yeah I was just impressed the 2 relatively new players held up against the bulker monitor blob + cap sprinters everywhere

[wary flame]

@tulip vault am in IPSN

[wary flame]

cool shot of sprinter shadow

[noble zodiac]

scrimpter...

[junior heron]

spronter...

[misty storm]

Yeah, can’t the floodlight pierce jamming

[junior heron]

@tulip vault you okay?

[fresh storm]

something I've been wondering for a while

are there circumstances where illuminators meaningfully improve track quakity?

[misty storm]

Also misc, do you feel like only 1 ocello is necessary on OSP fleets rn? Since 2 has been the standard for a while in my experience

[fresh storm]

how do I preview the amount of damage a HE warhead will do btw?

I know it's 50 damage rays but the stat screen only tells me explosion radius

missing a few data points to be able to visualize the difference between missile sizes

[wary flame]

it's "component" here

with armour pen next to it

[fresh storm]

oh

I thought that's the stats for my missile

reading comprehesion crit fail

[wary flame]

I would not like to live in the world of 1100 HP S2H

Missile health is "body integrity" I think

Missile armour is "wall thickness", if AP<Wall Thickness the hit does half damage to the missile

[wary flame]

Ocellos have lackluster direct combat value compared to ANS capital ships and bulkers, the reason you bring them is to access specialist kit like interruptor jammer and bullseye (mandatory), hangups, parallax, sarissa, floodlight and aurora (handy), not for the platform itself. Since AMMs can provide good hardkill to any OSP ship, aurora spam doesn't get you a ton and most of those others are not particularly useful in duplicate, especially if you just have two Ocellos sitting on top of each other being redundant.

I could see two Ocellos if each is in a different part of the map supporting different bulker or MN groups and everyone else is bringing many small ships, but probably not three or more normally.

[misty storm]

Ok

[wary flame]

Ocellos aren't awful in a fight but OSP lives and dies on efficient firepower and they certainly aren't that. They're pretty great for shutting down Direct CMD spam within the bubble radius and locking the perpetrator right back though.

[misty storm]

But 2 ocello fleets are generally better served by replacing the second ocello with something else I’m assuming?

My immediate thought is a 450 bulker

[fresh storm]

having a brainfart, how do I load a new ammo type into a weapon without giving a fire order?

[tulip vault]

you don't

you can just give a fire order on empty space, then cease fire immediately

[fresh storm]

trying to figure out the optimal configuration of PD and EWAR on my ocello is giving me an aunerysm

more specifically I know what I want but I don't know where I want it

[quiet quiver]

Is there a cease fire hotkey or do I have to pop open the widget again?

[tulip vault]

Uhhh

I think there’s a hotkey

But I don’t use it

[quiet quiver]

Ahh

[tulip vault]

A tale as old as time

[fresh storm]

huh, having the stuff evenly dispersed on all my sides so that the ship points directly at the problem enemy without any heading commands works suprisingly well

I would've expected that stacking my PD to one side would be far stronger but no

[supple sonnet]

Strong side/weak side PD arengment s used to be common but like IWRC they fell out of favor not to long after we started to play

[fresh storm]

I realize the imminent issue with having PD on only one side but it it were genuinely better I'd be willing to eat the occasional egg on my face

[supple sonnet]

Yeah it's Fine for ike broadsiding capitals but those are a bad idea in general

[near nova]

Alright I finally learned the ship builder and got back into this game…I will learn nebulous.

[misty storm]

@wary flame

[wary flame]

yes that is what I have been saying

a bunch of reasonably scary map control tugs is also good

torps and 100mm

[misty storm]

Would you mind posting an example?

[wary flame]

can just do MMTs

or swap the MLS-2 for a torp launcher and give them a pavise

and four torps

C30, MLS of desired flavour, Bellbird jammer, VLS-1 with chaff and Act EL 3pt AMMs, single rapid DC and aux steering, plus RCIC and Huntress

[olive blade]

They help you get a track but not really with track quality

[wet root]

(IIRC there technically is a slight improvement but it's negligible in essentially every case)

[misty storm]

ok uh. how do i optimise a 450 bulker?

cos rn i have less rpm than the ocello its with

[wary flame]

three ammo elevators, two RCCs, T20s on the top and bottom mounts for extra dakka

long haul drive

big pod of AMMs on the back

[olive blade]

That works, I always liked double drive

[wary flame]

long haul is currently brokenly good so you don't really need it

when it gets actual downsides back then I imagine the dual drive LNs will return

[toxic scaffold]

Your other option is something like this monstrosity of a fleet.

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Four Riders' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

King of Conflict : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun Sensor PD]
 Jack of Endings : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun PD]
  Ace of Pleanty : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun PD Sensor]
Queen of Glutony : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-100 Pocket Sand : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [2pts]
      SGM-106 Ember : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]

[supple sonnet]

Shit that last refit lost a pinpoint

[tulip vault]

I'm not sure the 4 bulker fleet is super viable anymore

the firepower's good but HEI missile spam is pretty prevalent

and cheap

[plain ice]

How do you guys export ship lists in that format?

[arctic magnet]

copy the .fleet file into the channel and the bot will pick it up

[supple sonnet]

Yeah HEI dose do a number on it but like also it takes a lot of HEI to put them down. like we mostaly stoped playing it as the fleet was a huge pain to control.

LIke the fight betwen it and a gale fleet is a fight no one likes or comes away happy from

[plain ice]

I’m assuming .fleet is just a game export thing?

Like something you do in nebulous itself?

[wet root]

Right click Neb in steam > browse local files > saves > fleets

[plain ice]

Got it thank you

[tulip vault]

first game with the cap fleet going good lmao

[quiet quiver]

Is that a map w/o a natural point? Because dang

[misty storm]

What else is good to have with an ocello and a 450 liner? I’ve got ~350 points left

[tulip vault]

yeah lmao

it's the belt

[oak shell]

Spotter tug
Acap

[arctic magnet]

I like when the blue line go up

and the red line not go up

[misty storm]

Like, spotter tug with a bloodhound?

[oak shell]

Bloodhound, EWR or both

[fresh storm]

I had the epiphany that the game will let me take a ship that's low on power into battle

it's not a "go back to editor and fix your illegal design" warning

[oak shell]

mhm

[fresh storm]

I can ignore it and just switch things on and off

cultivating my cursed design

[tulip vault]

I do it with a lot of ships

[fresh storm]

I wonder how many points I could shave off my fleet by just doing that

since it's an ewar/int fleet

I have the power footprint of a nation

[wary flame]

start of match (and the next 15 minutes) vs end of match

[tulip vault]

truly one of the games of all time

[wary flame]

the party rock

[misty storm]

I know intel is important on OSP, but what can you typically/practically fit it on?

[tulip vault]

the funny part of that game is I'm confident if they'd just pushed we would've folded like paper

[tulip vault]

ocellos, monitors

MD liners

[wet root]

It's actually pretty hard to get it on Ocellos without crew shenanigans

[tulip vault]

oh is it?

the more you know

[wet root]

Anyone for some Pubulous btw?

[tulip vault]

oh hell yes

please

<@&942093958551588904> we are gathering

for the pub of ulous

[misty storm]

What kinds of ships can do well at protecting an md liner and or ewr/bloodhound tugs?

[supple sonnet]

we have a way to make an intell center fit on a railcello but i don't know it personaly.

[tulip vault]

from what specifically?

[misty storm]

My immediate thought is foward 250 liner + md liner with intel + search tugs

[misty storm]

I would think fast stuff encroaching on the intel group

[glad aurora]

Which server for pubulous?

[tulip vault]

uhh

[supple sonnet]

I would say AMM shuttles with a rocket rack to just hang around would be more point efective

[tulip vault]

maybe a shuttle

yeah

[tulip vault]

not sure as of yet

[misty storm]

Ok

[wet root]

Lesten

[misty storm]

I guess I need to modernize my OSP fleets too

Was thijs there for last boat night?

I need to iron out this axford+frigates fleet and then I’ll focus on OSP

[sharp crow]

I was not

[misty storm]

Ok

[misty storm]

Would you mind posting your axford + frigate escorts fleet? I heard you had a good one

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'ANS - Axford + Frigate Backup' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

               Silmarillionaire : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun PD Sensor]
Middle Earth Cinematic Universe : 'Raines' class Frigate [EWar Sensor]
           Lesser of Two Eagles : 'Raines' class Frigate [Gun]
                Nazgul Polycule : 'Raines' class Frigate [Gun]
          Bombadil 2: Civil War : 'Raines' class Frigate [Gun]

[sharp crow]

I haven't played in a while so it may need some tinkering

for one the axford probably needs an interruptor now

[neat galleon]

busy modding morrowind rn but next time there's a session i'll hop on

[misty storm]

Thanks!

that’s a lot of 120 mm

[misty storm]

yeah it kinda needs some activer decoys and an interrupter

Misc does 6 activer decoys, 2 actual active decoys and an interrupter on his “TF Oak but with modern pd” fleet

I need to check that for sure tho

[grand pine]

so smol :3

[quiet quiver]

@wicked mirage My experiments on a DD-sized Sarissa Device, 0 warnings but you could trim it to run leaner

[lime jungle]

'Sarissa Device' is a 'Keystone' class Destroyer that costs 920 points.

[quiet quiver]

1 less micro lets it run most of its stuff at once, 1 less berthing should staff DC fine but feels cheaty

[misty storm]

this is my shot at it @sharp crow

[lime jungle]

Fleet '450 CH + Utility Escorts' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

 Right Will : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun PD Missile Sensor]
Molar Steel : 'Raines' class Frigate [EWar PD]
  Home Echo : 'Raines' class Frigate [Gun PD]
  Icy Depth : 'Raines' class Frigate [Gun PD]
 Iron Quiet : 'Raines' class Frigate [Gun Sensor PD]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
            SGM-110 Block : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-171 Tribble Container : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
    SGM-299 Activer Decoy : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR) - NONE [8pts]

[tulip vault]

If there is another game, folks who are currently nebulousing, please ping me

[misty storm]

ok uh. i have no clue how to make a MD liner

[wicked mirage]

Ooo!~ Very interesting! It even has Intel! Awesome ^^

[quiet quiver]

Yeah I tried matching the CL's specs as close as possible and it's pretty dang close!

[wicked mirage]

I think you can get away with 1 Berthing if you put it in one of the big slots?

[quiet quiver]

Ah yeah instead of the reinforced mag

[wet root]

Sand takes like no space, conveniently

[mint sinew]

I submitted one I like to the fleet swap night if you want to steal homework. Pretty sure it was my OSP fleet 2.

The short version is to only go up to 3 mass drivers for efficiency and offload all radar to other ships. I like to build a pretty cheap shuttle and leave it parked nearby to act as close defence and spotting for incoming missiles.

[quiet quiver]

Oh I had a good time with that fleet!

[wet root]

@junior heron Reminder to CIC your Ocello

[junior heron]

probably need to just rebuild a 12k OSP from the ground up :P

[misty storm]

whats some good stuff to accesorize a md liner with

[glad aurora]

usually nothing, I think my MD liner / rail Ocello fleet just had some ballistic PD on the liner

all the radar and anti-hybrid PD was on the Ocello

[wet root]

That's fair, I do like the idea of sharing illums across a 12k but the ConL seems tricky

[misty storm]

post if you dont mind?

[glad aurora]

It's not modernized for the current meta, and if it were I'm pretty sure I'd take the ballistic PD off entirely

[misty storm]

ok

[wary flame]

MD liners get many AMMs

and if you have the spare power somehow a graser

[glad aurora]

This is still a good AMM, yeah?

[lime jungle]

SGM-113 Buckler is a size 1 missile that costs 2 points.

[glad aurora]

Not sure if meta evolution changed things

[wet root]

Add a JRR so you can power a Grazer

This can't backfire

[wary flame]

I mostly use these ones that I took from Nop, but if you want to go for cheap 2pt spam then I'd cut the range somewhat to stop them charging out and trying to intercept whatever

more agi

[lime jungle]

SGM-1 Spring is a size 1 missile that costs 3 points.

[misty storm]

hows this? tried to whip up some defense mintors

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Intel MD Liner + Search Tugs' is composed of 6 ships that cost 3000 points:

  Rash Auto : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Rail Missile PD]
 Mothy Fret : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [PD Gun]
Muddy Valor : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [PD Gun]
  Snub Logo : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Sensor Gun PD]
  Mild Lack : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [PD Gun]
  Elect Nod : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Missile PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
     CM-S-400 Bowling Box : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR) - NONE [4pts]
            SGM-110 Block : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-171 Tribble Container : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]

[misty storm]

no idea if its a good idea or not

[glad aurora]

open fleet
3975 flak rounds

when the fuck did I make this

[quiet quiver]

When galespam was meta? IDK

[glad aurora]

Yeah, probably.

Do RCCs do anything for ANS railguns, or just MDs

[supple sonnet]

RCC's have not buffed MD's in a while

[glad aurora]

So, neither?

[mint sinew]

Seems like a solid base. I'd not personally bother with the aux steering on a MD bulker, a spare basic cic seems a more useful option in that vein given you are only bringing one restore.

[glad aurora]

modernized MD liner/rail ocello fleet

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'NG 3 Priestess' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

          Cryptographic Error : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Rail PD EWar Sensor]
               Common Mistake : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Rail PD]
Incorrect Semicolon Placement : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD Rocket]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-113 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]

[glad aurora]

50 AMMs should probably be enough

[glad aurora]

(that said, should I bring more MD ammo?)

[grand pine]

the names are amazing
methinks that is enough MD ammo considering their firerate?

[fresh storm]

the game named my ship The Pubic Net

so that's how my jammer works huh

[arctic magnet]

i'd keep that one tbh

[fresh storm]

I have a funny fleet idea that needs a broadside bulker for The Joke but no weapon loadout for them stands out to me in particular

mass drivers are pure support and so subtle at it that even my intel fleet ass is understimulated by them

and guns sound very suboptimal for engaging anything that can shoot back

[tulip vault]

450s are really good

Also 100mm + plasma is like

The meta build rn

[fresh storm]

what's the secret to not exploding when you're not fast, small, armoured nor long ranged

[tulip vault]

Kill them quick

Also bulkers can be both fast and long range

Long haul bulker is one of the faster ships in the game when flanking

[fresh storm]

well, in a straight line

[wet root]

Bulkers can take a shocking number of hits, casemates have a lot of hp and they have a lot of empty space shells can hit and do nothing in

They also can dodge reasonably well, they don't have as mediocre vertical thrust as expected

[tulip vault]

I mean

They change direction pretty quick

But straight line speed counts for lots

[wet root]

MDs absolutely smash anything smaller than an Axford, they just can't kill capitals easily without gun support

Railguns are much more support

[glad aurora]

if you have MDs + Ocello rails firing at a capital target, it's not going to actually do anything and is going to be missing most of its PD

at that point you just lean over to your torp player and say "crush his skull"

[fresh storm]

abelard

[noble zodiac]

… hell at that point you could probably just bring containers or S2s of your own and slam them into the target

[wet root]

You can also bring one 450 in your extra broadside slot to break DT with

[glad aurora]

My old ocello was 2x rail 1x 450, but I wasn't a huge fan

[wet root]

Yeah, wouldn't mix and match on an Ocello, they're already very expensive for not very much rail output, they can't afford to lose another third

But MD bulkers usually only want 3 MDs, so they have a natural spot for a 450

[glad aurora]

I suppose what comes out of that is that I'd need to sacrifice a DC compartment for a second reinforced mag, probably

/ swap one of my three eregs for an ammo elevator

[wet root]

I wouldn't recommend it, the point of a 450 is that it doesn't cost MD effectiveness but lets you hit DTs

Losing an ereg costs a lot for little value

If you want 450s for anything other than specifically breaking DT bring a good 450 bulker, not a bulker that's bad at 450 and bad at MD

[glad aurora]

Hm.

[wet root]

(Or a good 450 Ocello)

[neat galleon]

need me a fleet that's good against a bunch of little dudes

no idea how to do that

[supple sonnet]

ANS or OSP?

we have a few small ship feets that we can share and you can use or work from if you want

[neat galleon]

that'd be nice !! Probably ANS I haven't touched OSP

[olive blade]

To some extent part of fighting little ships is having a decent ship count yourself

But light cruisers and s2h carriers are the current usual ways

[neat galleon]

guess i'll just have to learn to manage more than like 2 or 3 ships

[olive blade]

It's definitely a skill worth picking up

[toxic scaffold]

This is our favorsed anti smll ship fleet but it's in part a cap feet, but part of it's desigen is to win the cap fight by just overmach most smal ship forces anyone else will bring, and dose a good job of unting down small ships

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Hoard 2.0' is composed of 10 ships that cost 3000 points:

Duncan Idaho : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun EWar]
Duncan Idaho : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun EWar]
Duncan Idaho : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun EWar]
Duncan Idaho : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun EWar]
Duncan Idaho : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun Sensor PD]
Duncan Idaho : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun Sensor PD]
Duncan Idaho : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
Duncan Idaho : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
Duncan Idaho : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
Duncan Idaho : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]

[supple sonnet]

You get two squadresn in the fleet so you don't have that much micro as ong as you set each formation to lose. but each formation is able to deal with most OSP ships that are out of postion espicay one small ships.

[neat galleon]

lmao they're all Duncan Idaho 💀

that's silly i like it

[tulip vault]

S1 offensives are a good bet as well usually

[neat galleon]

s1?

[tulip vault]

that's my go too defence with a capital ship

size 1 missiles

[neat galleon]

OH

i should probably learn some of these terms

but that one was obvious

[supple sonnet]

they all have callsigens, and well at this point it's a bit of a meme

Kabir (any/all) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) lmao they're all Duncan Idaho 💀

[grand pine]

how do you add a callsign?

[supple sonnet]

when you go to rename a ship, one of the option on the pop-up inclueds calisgen as well of gving the ship a new number

[grand pine]

oh

[fresh storm]

me strategically changing my ship numbers every match so that no one can write them down for a rematch

[supple sonnet]

Just remember it agenst the pilotnet aws and coventions of Nebuus to juat name your ships faux tracking numbers

Laws*

[fresh storm]

what about false flag

the all [ANS] Ocello masquarading as an axford fleet

[glad aurora]

Perfectly fine since I don't think OSP masquerade modules can work with Axford signatures and you can't mix factions on a team anyway

[fresh storm]

OSP masquarade can only do ANS signs

[neat galleon]

commanding this many ships seems daunting so is there a way I could just. replace a couple with a light cruiser or something as a stepping stone

[fresh storm]

unfortunately

[supple sonnet]

Yeah the foux track numbers thing si more about how it messess with the game as with how the caht auto-hook tracks and just the difacuaty of reporting them wiht out messing somthign up

[mint sinew]

Absolutely. Gun Vauxhall groups are a good tool for hunting down light ships while not being dead against heavier ships.

A classic template is 2 light cruisers loaded with 250mm guns and 1-3 corvettes to bring jammers and cap points

[supple sonnet]

And they are formationed up so as long as you Shit+ when you give an order you are basicaly just controling two ships

[neat galleon]

oh cool, thanks! I'll mess with a build like that

[supple sonnet]

We are not sold on Vauxen actuay beeing good agenst any real number of small ships but we are wiling to admit that not every one runs there MMT esque ships in groups of 4

[grand pine]

what are beam destroyers even good at? battleship kills? or smaller ship kills?

[supple sonnet]

Beam Destroyers are have a favourable match up agesnt MN's Ocellos, Bukers and ConL's as ong as they are postion well

[grand pine]

oh.. and theoretically would they be effective against ans' own ships?

[supple sonnet]

yep

but no one plays AvA anymore

[grand pine]

oh:(

[tulip vault]

they are very sillily effective against ANS ships tbh

or yknow, were

most of their struggles against OSP are just failing to hit anything important, but ANS ships have far fewer voids

[grand pine]

i wish i could test my stupid osp and ans fleets but they probably are very bad..

[runic torrent]

hey saper careful about beating on yourself, it's an old unhealthy habit and you don't want to fall back into that loop

it's okay to be a new learner at a game

if you're having trouble thinking positive thoughts, best to just get some space and not make it a public channel thing

[quiet quiver]

Except monitors, which are compact-layout ships with chunky compartments

[tulip vault]

yknow you say that

and you're right

like 100% you are correct

but my beam DDs love to skim the little beveled edge of the monitor where nothing is

I can't wait until test gets merged lmao

[grand pine]

merged?

[tulip vault]

like, turned into the real patch, the one we're actually playing on

as opposed to a public test branch

[grand pine]

what even was changed on the test branch, if I may ask?

[tulip vault]

defenders are better, beams can aim

chaff deploys faster

I think SAH validators work now

nothing majour really

[fresh storm]

SAH is semi-active... homing?

[tulip vault]

I guess it might be actually SARH

semi-active radar homing

[wet root]

The tricky part is you can very easily build Monitors so those huge compartments are mostly or entirely ablative, and once they're gone it's a lot easier for the beam to just slice through nothing

[quiet quiver]

Yeah but that can happen with any ship, like Ocellos and Axfords too

[wet root]

Beam slicing through the bridge and taking out exactly one (1) berthing is a classic

[neat galleon]

wait can i run a neb dedicated server in a linux vm? I feel like i saw someone saying they did in the official neb discord

[wary flame]

this is a joke that works especially well on me

[wet root]

I'm not sure you can run it on anything other than Linux lol

If you have any questions on hosting one feel free to give me a poke, I spin one up every boat night

[neat galleon]

yeah i ended up deciding to get a SFF computer as just my general linux machine and run it off of that

i will ask you if i end up with any questions :3

[near nova]

ok i need to sit in on some games at some point i cna barely eke out a dub against the AI and not consistently.

[neat galleon]

me too !! i'll probably be on tonight if anyone wants to

[grand pine]

i'd be up to it as well :)

[tulip vault]

hey <@&942093958551588904> would anyone like to stack a pub avec moi?

[junior heron]

is avec moi "with me"?

[tulip vault]

yes

[grand pine]

how soon?

[tulip vault]

I mean, now, but I will likely play more than one game

[wicked mirage]

If you can give me 15 mins, sure!

[supple sonnet]

we might be on in ~30 minutes

[tulip vault]

uhhh sure neb in 15 sounds doable

I will be in the first activity

[grand pine]

i'd like to join as well but we prolly wont have enough space

[wicked mirage]

Ok! I'll be there in a bit.

[wicked mirage]

"This channel has the maximum number of people" @tulip vault

D:

one sec Discord is bugged

[junior heron]

@tulip vault steam's back up!

[neat galleon]

does anyone have a build like this i can yoink question mark

[wet root]

If you're confident in your softkill skills I've been having a good time with these recently

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Softkill Meta' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

         Luna : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun EWar PD]
      Vulture : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun EWar PD]
   Hula Olive : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Sensor Gun PD]
        Aspen : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Sensor Gun PD]
Eldrazi Scion : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-159 Shuttlesniffer : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]

[glad aurora]

You bring a damn sight more 250 ammo than I do

[wet root]

I should probably cut down on the AP and drop the flares + active decoys

But I've been happy with that much HE and RPF, it's only about 17 minutes of firing time of each

[glad aurora]

Yeah, I'm more saying I'm probably bringing too little ammo

[wet root]

Definitely used most of one or the other in more than a few games, if there's a bunch of light ships or if I'm just hammering bulkers the whole game

Ah fair lol

These are also very survivable Vauxes, between the EWAR, softkill, and Raider drives, plus enough DC to repair from even a pretty significant beating

So they usually keep firing most of the match

[grand pine]

i have failed my plan

[noble zodiac]

anti-ship warfare - EXCELLENT

Certified Nebulous Moment™️

[tulip vault]

I have achieved 600 battles

[lime jungle]

SGM-100 Pocket Sand is a size 1 missile that costs 2 points.

[tulip vault]

thanks for the games everyone

twas fun :)

[wicked mirage]

Yeah! gg, have a good day Tron

@junior heron Have a good day Tom

[junior heron]

you too!

[grand pine]

i mean it hit 2 out of 2 shots

this one worked not so good :(

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'OSP something something' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

              Purse : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Plasma Gun PD EWar Sensor]
   Terrence B. Rape : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Rail PD]
      The Back Lean : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Sensor PD]
         Math Potty : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Gun]
Charmian Z. Spieler : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Gun]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-100 a dagger : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]

[neat galleon]

I don't remember what softkill means!! thank you tho

[noble zodiac]

softkill = decoys, jamming etc.

[neat galleon]

OHH right i think i remember from the tutorial

i haven't used them much at all

[noble zodiac]

stuff that makes the missile not see you rather than stuff that explodes the missile

yeah

[neat galleon]

i will try to use this so that i also get better at ewar stuff then

[grand pine]

hmm maybe it's time to learn how to missil

what advice would you give for baby's first missile fleet attempt?

[supple sonnet]

Do you want to do cruise or direct?

for long rage blind "yub-nub' strikes i woud say the standard Pnet yub fleet is a good starter

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'S2h yub' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

Wonderbread Guy but for Yubnub : 'Raines' class Frigate [Missile Gun]
          Stolen Yubnub Valour : 'Raines' class Frigate [Missile Gun]
            Gatekeeping Yubnub : 'Raines' class Frigate [Missile PD]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
                             SGM-100 Dummy : DIRECT - NONE - HE SHAPED [1pts]
SGM-H-216 Stairs With not Enough Head Room : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [11pts]

[supple sonnet]

It's got a lot of cheep long rnage cruise missles that have soem resitance to softkill and bad aim

[grand pine]

11 points missile
dear god

[noble zodiac]

pff, 11 points is cheap

[grand pine]

which one is simpler? direct?

[noble zodiac]

you should see the S3Hs :D

[grand pine]

uh oh

[supple sonnet]

Direct needs less navagation and guess work overalll

[noble zodiac]

direct is simpler - it's "what if i shot people like with guns, but i shot missiles at them instead"
cruise however is much more interesting, it lets you hook strikes around rocks and suchlike

cruise is harder tho because you have to know how to do waypoints, and then you have to get a feel for how to waypoint your strikes - how much targets will move, how wide your cones are, when to end the path and let the missiles go seeking

but in exchange you get to fire from impunity (behind rocks)

direct you have to expose your missileships to enemy fire

[supple sonnet]

Yeah you can just sit at spawn all match and rain feer, terror and HEI down on your foes with out feer of getting shot back

But as far as direct feets go for OSP you want somthing like a torp bulker or MN's and for ANS you want Gales or insta-stage hybreds

[grand pine]

i should learn proper ship waypointing before i try cruises:(

[rigid bison]

cruises are also necesary to get missiles off on cramped maps...and are powerful given how much time they spend hidden under rocks (rocc penaid best penaid)

[grand pine]

rocc penaid??

[neat galleon]

the missileer school tutorial is good for figuring out the controls of it

i'm still too spooked to use cruise missiles tho

[supple sonnet]

Not relay decently tuned torps work wonders on any map whare they can get in range

castigation enjoyer ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) cruises are also necesary to get missiles off on cramped maps...and are powerful given how much ti…

[wet root]

Direct is... simpler, but something that requires a fair amount of game experience to play well - to do well you want to guess where your ideal targets will be and position to engage them without being caught out, as the nature of missile volleys means taking even a few hits can reduce your combat effectiveness in a major way. I actually recommend learning Cruise first, you'll get the chance to learn missile aiming and the PD/softkill game without also having to deal with the extra load of being a frontline fleet

[wet root]

Missiles actually use a different type of waypoint system (for some reason), which IMO is actually more intuitive - definitely worth going into a testing skirmish against AI and giving it a try

[wet root]

Routing your strikes around cover so that they don't see them until the last moment, making it hard to softkill in time and reducing the time your missiles are vulnerable to PD

[wet root]

As someone who almost entirely uses direct missiles nowadays: It absolutely is not necessary, cramped maps are the preferred locale for almost every direct fire missile

(I should do more cruise, it's always fun. Just also so easy to cut when the points chopping block comes out.)

[neat galleon]

just sent that announcement to my friend who's been saying she wants to try it

hopefully this gives me someone to play against

[runic torrent]

@rocky orbit thread here. if you'd like the role, you can spectate the saturday boat nights

[olive blade]

@tulip vault I had a bit of a look at your container monitors and did a bunch of tweaks to the fleet to fit my preferences, I'm not sure how interested you are in them but I can send them

there is one optimisation that has no cost though, and that is that theyhave boosted reactors when they just need normal

[tulip vault]

oh, feel free, I've actually been meaning to do a retrofit of my own

I'd love to see other people's take on it

also the reactor thing is a good catch, thanks

[olive blade]

oh right hazel hates underscores

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Bomb container monitors' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

      Double Daylight Savings : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Missile PD Sensor]
Military Participation Awards : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Missile PD]
              Honest Nebulous : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Missile PD]
       Glup Shitto Merch Deal : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Missile PD]
       Nebulous 5e Adaptation : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Missile PD]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
                          CM-432 Cut Grass : DIRECT - CMD/ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [14pts]
                        CM-432 Cutty Grass : DIRECT - CMD/ARAD(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [14pts]
SGM-199 Classical Music to Deter Teenagers : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]

[fresh storm]

good names lmao

[olive blade]

cheers

[quiet quiver]

Oh you really go for one salvo each huh

4 channels for 4 missiles

[fresh storm]

I've been trying to use the bmb shells in an anti missile role but I can't conclude if it works or not btw

[tulip vault]

It does

but like

[fresh storm]

giving it and the missiles a fire order but putting them on hold fire while the ship turns to bear and programs

[tulip vault]

don't try

[fresh storm]

then releasing them at the same time tends to synchronize the bomb shell with the release of AMMs from your target

[tulip vault]

that's pretty clever actually

that might be a use case

but for normal anti-missile work they're not good at all

[fresh storm]

I was testing it in the test range and felt like size 1 AMMs tend to slip through the radius?

which implies it uses damage rays?

idk

[tulip vault]

Also looking at this I think my these changes aren't bad, just not my speed

it does use rays, yeah

a real PD net on that fleet is nice but I think the primary issue with it is more that the missiles are entirely reliant on ANS failing to bring something they really should bring

I've reworked mine to try and use my cursed SAH/CMD seekers, but I dunno if that really works

I will however certainly swap the large for a reinforced as you have

I really thought I already had some reinforced DC

[fresh storm]

just checking, doesn't the wake persist for like, 20 seconds after cutting the engines?

[tulip vault]

wake is complicated

wake val and wake primary works on two almost entirely different systems

[olive blade]

yeah thats why I diversified the seekers a bit

[tulip vault]

and I don't get how it works lmao

[olive blade]

the weird module layout is so that the restores get taken in the correct order btw

[tulip vault]

ah makes sense

[arctic magnet]

what do people use for S3H backpack warheads? Currently running HEKP to help my CLs deal with monitors and maybe take shots at bow-on bulkers, but wondering if just regular HE would be better? Putting 12 of those into two bulkers that one time and not doing anything made me very sad

[tulip vault]

HEKP has a lot of variance

you're almost certainly further ahead with HEI most of the time, I think

[olive blade]

hekp really needs the good angle

then it shines

but HEI always works and is half the cost

[tulip vault]

occasionally you'll huck one (1) HEKP through the pillar of the bulker thats holds everything and instantly kill them

but usually it'll disappear into nothing

[olive blade]

tbh

usually hekp kills like one gun and one back panel

I find

on a bad angle

the guns are pretty big and its hard to hit nothing

[tulip vault]

I think it really depends

if you're the ship the liner is shooting at, yeah that makes sense

[olive blade]

source: people shoot my bulkers with hekp a lot

[tulip vault]

but if you're any kind of off angle sometimes it just skims along the edge and disappears

[olive blade]

yeah it can do

I tend to find I'm shooting at the people that hekp me

[olive blade]

I have been doing SAH [CMD] for torps

lately

[fresh storm]

what are the "hull configurations" people speak of btw

[tulip vault]

waait

[fresh storm]

it sounds like alternate ship shapes?

[tulip vault]

oh wait no discos break CMD val now

right

[olive blade]

they do but then I can still angle the beam

and I find targetting is a little bit sticky

[tulip vault]

bulk frieghters have a random shape they come in every time

[olive blade]

if the cmd val gets it on the right target then gets jammed I find it switches to chaff less

[tulip vault]

huh

[olive blade]

but that might just be me reading patterns in nothing

[fresh storm]

?????????

wild

[tulip vault]

it's like

their thing

[olive blade]

I think to some extent cmd sah, sah cmd, sah [cmd] etc are all fairly interchangable

[tulip vault]

the mounts and where they are doesn't change much

there is one or two builds which need a specific config

[tulip vault]

I see it

I use SAH CMD for a really cursed micro trick

sadly containers do not have the agi for it

[fresh storm]

is the config decided when you add the ship to the fleet editor or when it loads into a match?

[tulip vault]

fleet editor

[olive blade]

fleet editor

you sometimes have to scum it

for some specific loadouts

[tulip vault]

you can also Ctrl-c ctrl-v the actual fleet file

which will keep the hull segments

[wary flame]

Hit the 2000pt beam BB with a chisel - it's considerably more expensive with guns, because you need to pay for ammo and a second magazine

but this has a solid base of fire, enough missiles to shut down shuttle pushes on a natural and a torp sprinter to advance on a point under missile cover fire while the BB is bombarding things

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Prototype Cheap BB' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

Firm Committment To Fiscal Rectitude : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
               Synthetic Missile CDO : 'Raines' class Frigate [Missile PD Sensor EWar]
    SPAC-Funded Warship Accquisition : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 6 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
      SGM-111 Currency Conversion : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]
              SGM-200 Golden Bomb : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [7pts]
             SGM-H-211 Fishtail-C : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [11pts]
               SGT-358 Gom Jabbar : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [13pts]
             SGT-358 Wierding Way : DIRECT - ARAD(RADAR)/ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [12pts]

[fresh storm]

this game has very unfortunately hit me in the armchair general part of my brain btw

I'm strongly wrestling with my desire to write down actual doctrines to play by

I'm not charting out radar/picard ranges and measuring how long it takes for my ship to come out of cover, do its thing and relocate

that'd be absurd

[olive blade]

the brain genius rides again

[wary flame]

the Meta Brain Genius is this thing, which I think was made by Siger

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Beam DAD' is composed of 6 ships that cost 3000 points:

           Bad Score : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Beam PD EWar Sensor]
Chantalle Y. Ernesto : 'Raines' class Frigate [PD Sensor]
      The Laced Whim : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD]
     The Jaded Swell : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD]
     Money and Grunt : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD]
                 Put : 'Sprinter' class Corvette []
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-1 NULL COMBAT : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
 SGM-150 Sunglass : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]

[wary flame]

it's actually cheaper

I don't rate the empty cap swarm much but the BB is pretty much the gold standard

[olive blade]

hmmm

I don't agree with some of the decisions on it but it does look pretty good

and I do like it being a beam bb

[fresh storm]

that seems like very little ammo fo for 6 defenders unless the gameplan is to very tightly control their firing

[olive blade]

thats not too bad

those are some weird cap ships

[wary flame]

they work, I just prefer being able to kill some of the endless waves of shuttles

[tulip vault]

surely this is what mazer intended when he added the aux steering

[fresh storm]

new module: scrap box

it's a box of scrap. are you happy now?

[arctic magnet]

[olive blade]

you may not like it

but this is what peak performance looks like

[wary flame]

aux steerings are secretly just solid armoured bulkheads with a child's toy steering wheel embedded inside them like a penny in a foundation

I actually think having an equivalent to "armour compartment" is really nice for fleetbuilding but it should probably be indicated as such

[fresh storm]

I generated a few and saw my first non-long-boy ever

fascinating

[grand pine]

non-long?

[fresh storm]

they're both cargo feeders

[grand pine]

ooh

[wet root]

(Bulk Freighters, Cargo Feeders are Monitors)

Container Liners also have randomized shapes!

[glad aurora]

Hm - I wonder, is a MD bulker better as a Long Boy or a Short Boy?

My current one is a Long Boy

[fresh storm]

I'm willing to lean towards Generally As Large As Possible

[tulip vault]

I imagine there's an infentesimal benefit to being shorter

but like

[fresh storm]

to maximize empty space hits

[tulip vault]

bulker layout is all but irrelevant

[wet root]

Prrrrrobably short since I think they're a bit easier to softkill missiles with?

[tulip vault]

I say all but because there are a few select builds which need certain layouts

[wet root]

Since if you're dropping chaff from the midpoint missiles will see the long one sooner relative to the chaff

[fresh storm]

don't drop chaff from the midpoint

[wet root]

There's also the very silly aspect that the big flat sections can have 450 HE overpen IIRC but that's only relevant for obelisk/roof gun bulkers

[supple sonnet]

but they need the flat section insted of the unicornsection

[fresh storm]

I want to do The Funny with my ocello by dropping chaff from the rearmost hardpoint and shining my own illuminator at it while getting away from it with main thruster power

but haven't had the time to test it in practice

[supple sonnet]

It Works espicily agenst SAH

[junior heron]

gone one step further: avoid paying for cruise missiles by having a trail of shuttles dropping and illuminating chaff for direct-fire semi-actives to follow

(someone on the nebcord showed that you can semi-cruise by firing on an ELINT bearing, then locking the target after you're around a rock, and similarly convoluted methods took hold in my mind)

[fresh storm]

with a CMD missile, I assume?

[wet root]

This is why they're nerfing CMD on ELINT next patch

These strategies are far too powerful

[wet root]

I need to remember to do this

[fresh storm]

...how does CMD work as a validator, even?

[supple sonnet]

if the seaker sees the target and has coms to the aunching ship it will hit the target

[fresh storm]

I'm trying to imagine a scenario where you might want to and uhhhh

I'm coming up with two

[supple sonnet]

It's realy good at hiting one ship out of a swarm or squadren, or hiting a ship behind ablative hulls

[fresh storm]

SAH/CMD if you desperately need to shave off half a point from the cost and bring enough missiles to recoup at least the cost of the illuminator

and WAKE/CMD for basically CMD but it goes for engines instead of center mass

[tulip vault]

ACT[CMD] is very strong

it's entirely non-softkillable by small ships

so I see it a lot on MMTs

actually that's not true they could lyrebird

but at that point they deserve to live

[wet root]

If you don't have a good track but don't want to die to chaff

(Namely for ACT[CMD])

[glad aurora]

I used to have a Lyrebird on my MD liner, but ran out of power to use it while I was modernizing 😔

I like to think that 50 AMMs covers its spot

[supple sonnet]

Yeah you just have to worry about running out of AMM's in that case wich like we have seen happen recently when we were playing a missle fleet the other night

though we do want to pay a yub fleet when some one ese has brough the sarissa device to see how good it is at sniping AMM's

[fresh storm]

tested that and no it goes for center mass

[wet root]

WAKE[CMD] or WAKE/CMD? If it's the latter it might have just lost the wake track and swapped to the cmd secondary, which took it to center mass

You pay for what you get with wake seekers, unfortunately

[fresh storm]

it was WAKE[CMD]

[wet root]

Huh, not sure why it was going for the center then

[supple sonnet]

are auroras all that much better than defenders?

fiddling with our beam bb fleet again and we're wondering if they're worth the points

[glad aurora]

completely different applications

on ANS, you have no reason to take them

especially on a beam BB where you don't have the power to spare

these days (you could chat with misc about this) BB defenses against missiles are 80% softkill, so chaff, disco ball, active decoys, and the activest decoy

[supple sonnet]

right

[wet root]

Torps. And allegedly rockets, though defenders can deal with those if you're lucky

It's pretty easy to make a torpedo that will slip right past defenders, and they just completely disregard flak

[glad aurora]

From experience, I've not had any of my torpedoes killed by Auroras even when they do see them

[supple sonnet]

yea, we're asking more because we recently got pretty badly beat by containers and our auroras didn't do much to them

[glad aurora]

oh

[mint sinew]

Against containers auroras are pretty good at stripping decoys but won't do much to the containers themselves.

[glad aurora]

yeah, just take softkill and you're done vs. containers

[wet root]

Oh, yeah, for a while auroras were a choice against the decoys on containers (with a few Defenders to kill the actual boxes once your lasers popped the decoys), but right now I'm not sure how viable they are with the potential extra decoys you can bring in the mixed salvos

Though Misc is absolutely the person to ask for anything regarding containers

[supple sonnet]

for sure

i think we've got it (mostly) squared away, anyone up for a game?

[wet root]

Alas, I can't rn, but gl!

[supple sonnet]

ty

[grand pine]

a game of nebulous you say?)

[supple sonnet]

a game of nebulous we say!

[night fable]

It's Wednesday, and that means yet more Wednesday viewer games in NEBULOUS: Fleet Command!
https://www.twitch.tv/docvivileandra <@&942093958551588904>

[misty storm]

for a cap tug, is a 250 + 120 a good idea or should i do something else

i feel like i need to rework this

[lime jungle]

Fleet '600 Monitors + Capgame' is composed of 8 ships that cost 3000 points:

White Venom : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Gun PD]
 Wired Quiz : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Gun PD]
 High Squid : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Gun PD]
 Hoar Flick : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Gun PD]
  Main Moon : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Gun Sensor PD]
Optic Ranch : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Gun Sensor PD]
Hokey Ankle : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Gun PD Sensor]
 Ninth Cape : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Gun PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-110 Block : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]

[misty storm]

are containers the best for the top and bottom mounts on 600 monitors?

[grand pine]

god AGAIn

[quiet quiver]

So it goes, hopefully your team appreciates your ships’ brave sacrifice

seeing your team about to have 4 points in that screenshot

[grand pine]

the team did good, but i died like an idiot without even beaming anyone D:

we've had 3 reactor blooms this game.. my destroyer, 17's(?) battleship and.. a teammate's ship, i sadly don't know which one it was

[runic torrent]

@olive blade missile name idea: "As per my last email"

[olive blade]

I think i have done that one at least once

[wet root]

Wild as this is, I think WAKE[CMD] might... actually be good?!

At least on hybrids with a very long stage range

Particularly against tug formations, I might need to try WAKE[CMD] as an answer to jam-heavy swarms

[sly glade]

yeah you did

a whole series of things named after things like that

[wet root]

This is very nonrepresentative of an actual game, but it is pretty

[misty storm]

yeah uh, what is best for secondary weapons for 600 monitors?

[supple sonnet]

we have had luck with torps

[misty storm]

ok

whats a good setup for cap tugs?

ive got c53 +t20 rn

[misty storm]

what torps?

[toxic scaffold]

thease

[lime jungle]

SGT-358 Gom Jabber is a size 3 missile that costs 12 points.

[glad aurora]

Hm.

Why the longer range with smaller speed?

My cmd/[wake] torps are high speed short range.

[supple sonnet]

They have about 3.5 ish G's of turn to dodge defender fire

and the range i to try to punch a beemer befoer it get's it's beems on you

[glad aurora]

Ah, yeah, that's a really good point

BB beam range is 5k, so you need to be outside of that as OSP

I get more license to run 3k torps because I'm ANS

[supple sonnet]

well those have an efective rnage of just short of 5km so it's a bit more dicy, but some of us can pull it off

[bitter furnace]

In my MN swarm I like one or two T81s and then put T30s on the rest. Gives you some ability to hurt capitals and greatly improves your effectiveness against single small ships which lets you split up to guard cap points in the late game

[misty storm]

this is what ive got rn

[lime jungle]

Fleet '600 Monitors + Capgame' is composed of 8 ships that cost 3000 points:

 Brash Race : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Missile PD]
  Lost Pear : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Missile PD Sensor]
Posed Wound : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Missile PD]
Under Round : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Missile PD]
  Main Moon : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Gun Sensor PD]
Optic Ranch : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Gun Sensor PD]
Hokey Ankle : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Gun PD Sensor]
 Ninth Cape : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Gun PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
   SGM-110 Block : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGT-358 Uppercut : DIRECT - CMD/PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [12pts]

[olive blade]

normally people use shuttles to do the cap and tugs to kill the enemy cappers

with missiles

[misty storm]

mm

i see

so like, 100 casemate + some s2s?

[olive blade]

yeah

[misty storm]

ok

[olive blade]

and a huntress for burnthrough and often a jammer

missiles are traditionally act [cmd] with weave

[misty storm]

ok

[olive blade]

the multi mission tug (mmt)

[lime jungle]

'MMT' is a 'Shuttle' class Clipper that costs 86 points.

[olive blade]

this is my build

oops

wrong one

[misty storm]

i dont think i have all the points for that

[lime jungle]

'MMT' is a 'Tugboat' class Clipper that costs 362 points.

[olive blade]

yeah people usually use a couple of these to overwatch and a bunch of super cheap shuttles to cap

[lime jungle]

'suicide shuttle' is a 'Shuttle' class Clipper that costs 86 points.

[olive blade]

this is at least the "meta" but obv there are other approaches that will work

[misty storm]

thanks

had to cut down a bit but

[lime jungle]

Fleet '600 Monitors + Capgame' is composed of 8 ships that cost 3000 points:

Star Berry : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Missile PD]
Bowed Hymn : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Missile PD Sensor]
Halt Brace : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Missile PD]
  Wise Ore : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Missile PD]
 Punk Blip : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun Sensor PD]
Smart Mean : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun Sensor PD]
 Back Howl : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD]
Only Decoy : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD]
```This fleet uses 4 different missile types:
```yaml
            SGM-110 Block : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-171 Tribble Container : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
      SGM-212 Palm Strike : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [10pts]
         SGT-358 Uppercut : DIRECT - CMD/PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [12pts]

[quiet quiver]

When I see these in a match I keep thinking of this bit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHX_4BltbSE

[wary flame]

I've been designing and redesigning my torpedo corvs to fight the new threat of pavise gun shuttles in wings, which my traditional torps do nothing against, and settled on this thing

[lime jungle]

SGM-H-389 Fishtail-APV is a size 3 missile that costs 16 points.

[wary flame]

standard fishtail min angle tech, decent warhead, arad/act with Fast Startup

which lets me pack three of them and sling them as if they were torpedoes

with a 5k stage range you can plausibly close to 4.5km and fire them off while jammed out, as discount instastage

it's a little pricy but it works

just have to hope the 20% fail chance doesn't screw you

[tulip vault]

okay that is a very good bit

I gotta get me the gom jabbar

[wary flame]

the gom jabbar pattern is great for use against ANS but Pavises require a 3km-range torpedo to defeat, they're harder to cork through

good general purpose, though

also turns out that the ice crystal map does show reflections through the map to spectators

[tulip vault]

yeah it does lol

[wary flame]

I have literally never seen this before in Neb

they accelerated somewhat

[tulip vault]

Beautiful

[fresh storm]

speen

[wary flame]

they were stuck juddering together trying to actually fight stuff for a solid five minutes before they actually died and started rotating

[fresh storm]

now recreate it on purpose with two double broadside bulks

speaking of, I'm working on a MD bulk partnered with a plasma ocello

my thought process being that I'm already spending a fair bit on energy generation on the ocello

and I don't need my search radar to be on when I'm already in effective plasma range

so double savings!

[noble zodiac]

No Time For Caution starts playing

[wary flame]

plasma Ocello is generally a waste of space since it has the firepower of a single cheap monitor and spending all the power on eregs means there's none left to run the expensive auroras, sarissa, interruptor and ANS radar that you really want an Ocello for

may as well give it the good 450 or 250 turrets

[noble zodiac]

not to mention spending all the power on the plasma itself

[wary flame]

that validator change is potentially extremely spicy

[grand pine]

50% flank damage probability to long haul? sad

[arctic magnet]

passive would be HoJ/ARAD, SAH, EO, Wake?

[wary flame]

arad/act/[wake] reject, we container like men

[supple sonnet]

+50% flank damage on the long hall is not bad for gun liners and they need it the most though Isakai trucks will suffer

[tulip vault]

The long haul is dead, long live the long haul

I actually really like that change

[sharp crow]

I thought a jammed missile was simply blind, what is this validator change going to do against jamming?

[tulip vault]

It actually makes it into a decision as to whether or not to bring it, though I still think itll be really good

[wary flame]

validated arad doesn't chase jamming sources with a reject val on it

[tulip vault]

That’s… hmm

[sharp crow]

so purely the jamming missiles?

or what

[wary flame]

damned if I know

anyone want to help me test it?

[tulip vault]

Sadly not at home right now

[sharp crow]

I really don't understand what it does

[wary flame]

nobody is quite sure yet

[tulip vault]

I think it lets arad actually properly validate when it’s chasing a jamming signal?

But Im not sure

[wary flame]

hey tom

@junior heron new change, Bowling For [Act] specifically does not bowl for [Act] any longer

[glad aurora]

Was Long Haul really that great? I almost always bring Yards.

[tulip vault]

arad/[act] is no longer sofkilled by bowling ball?

Huh

Is it still softkilled by normal active decoys?

[tulip vault]

Yea

[wary flame]

41 m/s permaflank liner was a tiny bit OP

[tulip vault]

It’s probably the best drive in the game on main

[wary flame]

I got ambushed by three vauxes this morning and literally just flanked at them until I reached torp range

while they backed off at 39m/s

[grand pine]

how does one play broadside bulkers?

[supple sonnet]

You pre-aim (set headding for whare you think the enamy ships will be) and do your best to not get cought out by every missle the ANS has brought. and neer flank as you don't get the speed bonus when your going sideways wichis most of the time

and if you have enough guns you can fire on some vary poor qulity tracks

[wary flame]

OK, Arad/EAct/[Act] wiggled for a few seconds when bowling ball jammed but did not chase

interesting

[glad aurora]

Is this the death of the bowling ball?

[wary flame]

probably not since you need a Reject validator to make it work

and interrupt means that [CMD] is not viable as such because the interruptor will turn the entire missile off if it's on reject

so you either mix your salvos three ways to load arad/act/[act], the support container for such and then act/[wake], or you go arad/act/[wake] on Reject and container like men

none of this "off-aspect fallback" nonsense, you either get wake val to confirm or you miss

[fresh storm]

I wish ARAD targetted radar equipment the way WAKE tries to target engines

I was visited by the vision of an S1 swarm sandblasting a hull bare

[tulip vault]

I mean that isn’t what sarh does

It follows specifically illuminators

I guess maybe arad should do that

[fresh storm]

oh yeah I'm bad with a

e

the

shortenings

I know what I'm thinking of but if the thing in question is an abstract jumble of letters my fingers consider it fully fungible with similar length jumbles of letters

[tulip vault]

That’s very fair

All the abbreviations are a confusing jumble of acronyms and not acronyms

[wet root]

Wake being the only non-acronym seeker is particularly fun

[tulip vault]

ARAD is only like

half acronym I think

[wet root]

True

[bitter furnace]

[ACT] set to REJECT and with Detect Small Targets disabled should now prevent HOJ and ARAD from seeking onto SSJ AMMs (previously, only primaries and backups respected the Detect Small Targets setting)

that as far as I know was the main intent of the change

but then the patchnotes went up and the wording of them is... quite a bit broader

and there's some weird interactions being found with unvalidated setups, so idk if bugs or more intended changes or what the heck is going on

[wet root]

# Perditio Changelog - 1.5 (18 Jan 2024)
### Changes:
- Added changeable seed option in lobby
- Added commands for dedicated servers for changing and voting terrain settings ("!helpperditio", "!voteperditio", "!changeperditio")

### Fixes:
- Dedicated servers now work with this mod
- Fixed "No option found for key" error for players in lobby while map changes to Perditio

Good news for Boat Night!

[tulip vault]

heck yeah

[wary flame]

that fits but also seems like an incredibly complicated way to say "containers but not squales are immune to killjoy pull"

[tulip vault]

oh squall gales

honestly I think keeping squales vulnerable but making containers better is probably good

[wary flame]

seems sensible

I personally would have just let "detect small targets" set whether your missile could be SSJ pulled or not, as a fairly elegant way to stop it being an amazing defensive tool, but I suppose overcomplicated container building kind of works

[fresh storm]

so when are we getting an illuminator module for containers

[bitter furnace]

I wanted to phrase it in the same way the UI does, and avoid using jargon

[wary flame]

oh no, you got it right, I was just trying to summarise in balance terms

[bitter furnace]

yeah in that case you've hit it dead on

[ACT] is pretty useful now, but most double-seeker missiles probably don't have room, which leaves containers as the only triple-seeker capable missile to be the main winner here

[wary flame]

you can reconfigure a container salvo from act/[wake]/decoy plus arad/act/[decoy] to arad/act/[act-R] plus act/[wake] plus two support containers to make up for the decoy loss

not too difficult

or you can go arad/act/[Wake] on reject, add support containers and container like a man

get wake val to proc or bust

[bitter furnace]

lmao

15 second grace period go brrr

[wary flame]

I like this a lot, means you only have to deal with the softkill the fleet editor actually tells you about

[misty storm]

does the pd mix on the monitors look good here?

[lime jungle]

Fleet '600 Monitors + Capgame' is composed of 8 ships that cost 3000 points:

Star Berry : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Missile PD]
Bowed Hymn : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Missile PD Sensor]
Halt Brace : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Missile PD]
  Wise Ore : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Missile PD]
 Punk Blip : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun Sensor PD]
Smart Mean : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun Sensor PD]
 Back Howl : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD]
Only Decoy : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD]
```This fleet uses 4 different missile types:
```yaml
            SGM-110 Block : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-171 Tribble Container : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
      SGM-212 Palm Strike : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [10pts]
         SGT-358 Uppercut : DIRECT - CMD/PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [12pts]

[supple sonnet]

Ehh It's hard to have good PD on monitors, wich is why most folks don't bother or do it just though an escort. but like just a box of AMM's should be enough as ong as no one tries to test your mag depth on them

[misty storm]

ok

[misty storm]

does salvo size for amms work per ship or is it coordinated between ships

[supple sonnet]

It should be coordinated now

[misty storm]

Ok