Nebulous: Fleet Command

[dark dawn]

I'm garbage at micro

[olive blade]

You can probably keep them in formation mostly with the axford if it's just 2, otherwise it's kinda just 2 groups

[glad aurora]

Yes, Shogun was saying a single Axford as the entire fleet

[dark dawn]

Fair enough.
Actually, weird question.
Can you make a railgun fleet out of an axford+a few destroyers

That isn't terrible

[glad aurora]

That's why I said what I did

[dark dawn]

And yes I know, ANS railguns.

[tulip vault]

don't bring the axford imo

unless its a gun axford

[dark dawn]

Just stick to DDs?

[tulip vault]

oh I see, I didn't read it as such

[olive blade]

Yeah solo axford fleet is not recommended

[tulip vault]

also yeah just stick to DDs

or make the axford an actual combat element

I don't know how cheap you can get DDs but 3 rail DDs + gun axford could work I think

[dark dawn]

Got it, because I built a railgun DD fleet and it
Didn't do that much, but I don't know how much it was my build being bad and how much it was ANS railguns not working how I expected.

[tulip vault]

You might just not have noticed the effects of them

[olive blade]

It's hard to tell

[tulip vault]

from the side of the user they do seem kinda ineffective but getting shot with them sucks

[dark dawn]

Got it, because looking at damage numbers those were basically zero.

[tulip vault]

yeah they don't do direct damage

but that doesn't really matter

[olive blade]

I personally always want a secondary weapon or tw

Two

On my rail dds

[dark dawn]

Well I strapped a pair of Mk.64s to each of them

Hoping that the Lord's caliber would help

[olive blade]

That works, I will say I feel it's a hard fleet to pilot

[dark dawn]

Yeah, I could tell

It also has a spyglass frigate with a prowler so I have some cap and utility

I keep trying to make scouting corvettes and just can't because they have no power output

[tulip vault]

I would reccomend not putting the prowler on the frig

much to everyone's chagrin it still does close to nothing

[dark dawn]

Whiplash then to zoom around faster?

[olive blade]

I like pyropes scout dd with the super spyglass

[tulip vault]

I mean I might just go regular drive but whip makes sense as well

[dark dawn]

See I thought of doing that but I'd have to make a frontline destroyer without a forward gun to fit it in-budget.

[olive blade]

Remind me and I can post some Fleets after work

[dark dawn]

Because putting the spyglass on your backline railguns doesn't make sense to me.

If you're 11km away from something enemy as a railgun destroyer you should probably run.

[wary flame]

I know of one rather scary missile battleship

but it's a tight build

[dark dawn]

I'm listening

[tulip vault]

if you're looking for inspo I think the starter rail DDs are pretty good

certainly room for improvement but they are cool

[wary flame]

it's one of Hunter's builds, which I put my own spin on, let me go get it

we have Hazel here now, superb

[dark dawn]

Ahh, I see. The DDs I don't super-like, but I will probably yoink the scout corvettes.

[tulip vault]

yeah

also in an effort to clean up my fleet folders, I've deleted almost all my fleets except for the ones I actually play

50 fleets of garbage, disposed of

@junior heron if you're willing, could I nab the modern iteration of the Autumn?

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Autumn of the Storm - 3k' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

  Autumn of the Storm : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Beam PD Missile EWar Sensor]
The Long Distant Road : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD Sensor EWar]
```This fleet uses 4 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-100 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
              SGM-102 Arcane Bolt : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [4pts]
                  SGM-204 Bulwark : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [4pts]
            SGM-299 Activer Decoy : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR) - NONE [8pts]

[tulip vault]

thank you muchly

is there a reason you run big whip?

[junior heron]

big power

and health

[tulip vault]

makes sense

[junior heron]

i'm more of an ambush ship anyway, chasing things down over open terrain is bad for me actually

[wet root]

I need to test this but I'm not sure that's entirely accurate now - with the Bloodhound buff, they can actually see frigs a decent distance outside jamming range (~12.5k IIRC), and I think Prowler is just enough of a reduction to bring that back down to ~10k

[tulip vault]

hmm

maybe

would be cool if true

I think that everything that worries about getting bloodhounded like that though probably can't afford to run a prowler

if the scout's getting bloodhounded something bad has already happened I think

and the frig swarm probably doesn't like all the debuffs

[junior heron]

hmm

prowler/raider

0 power drive setup

[wet root]

Frigblob might not care much, guns are cheap and any reactor gets you your frontlines

The jammer cares but one big reactor is enough there with the hull buff

[olive blade]

The scout can get found by ewr and killed with bloodhound and md or boom shell

[tulip vault]

I more mean the speed penalties, but fair

[wet root]

Oh yeah that sucks

[tulip vault]

and yeah, I hear that, but the prowler's penalties are just so rough I hesitate to put it on anything

[olive blade]

And if you can jam out the blood you can escape but maybe not otherwise

[wet root]

Prowlerwhip would be funny

[olive blade]

I'm not sold but I can see the logic

[wet root]

But yeah, the speed penalties kinda kill it for blobs

[tulip vault]

it's -15% and then accel nerfs

[wary flame]

I am desperately beating this battleship with a stick to try and fit it into 3k, give me a minute

[junior heron]

remember everyone, prowler drives are often seen alongside ships with the E70 'Interruption' Jammer

[olive blade]

I'm assuming solo scout

[tulip vault]

I think I'd take occasionally dying to MDs over being way less useful in the late capgame

[tulip vault]

so true

[wet root]

Maybe for jammer escorts it's tolerable though, does a prowler Raines keep up with an Axford?

[tulip vault]

prowler raines pulls 18~19 m/s

I don't think any modern ax goes that slow

[wet root]

Wait that blurb is on the e70? I assumed it was the other disco ball lmao

[wet root]

Ah, rip

[tulip vault]

yeah it's on the e70

it's really funny

[wet root]

On the masq it would make sense

[tulip vault]

it's not a huge speed disparity, but it gets worse considering you (meaning me) typically permaflank axfords

[wet root]

Tbf you permaflank Raines too

[tulip vault]

I think it would maybe make even less sense there

[wet root]

Smol ship with few thrusters

[tulip vault]

since masq tends to make your radar sig bigger

[junior heron]

hmm

vauxhall + masquerade (sprinter) + prowler

[tulip vault]

also true but it makes the disparity between speeds bigger

[wet root]

You don't actually see it happen in game but lorewise making a big ship pretend to be a class down seems not entirely ridiculous

[junior heron]

I should build newer, better deception fleets

[wary flame]

OK, this is my version of OVERLORD, a list a couple of the commodore club guys were throwing around and gave me when I expressed interest. I lowered the ammo count by about 150 rounds to reinforce the magazines, traded a large locker and some missiles for modern softkill and changed out the PD, although I am tempted to reduce the DC further for interrupt

[tulip vault]

I suppose yeah

solly -> axford is plausible

[tulip vault]

and I actually do have an axford -> vaux fleet

[junior heron]

this better have only the twin-barrel on the ventral and be missiles everywhere else

[tulip vault]

though it's probably not great

[wary flame]

Hazel?

Hazel not interested

[tulip vault]

hazel is having a nap

[junior heron]

lol

[tulip vault]

oh hazel's typing

nope

[lime jungle]

Fleet '!!!UNSELECTED' is composed of 1 ship which costs 50 points:

The Littlest Guy : 'Shuttle' class Clipper []

[tulip vault]

your fleet is classified misc

[junior heron]

might just be too big

[wet root]

Better in lore where you can't just out the camera over at the opfor and watch the rounds come out of a single turret spot though

[supple sonnet]

Nah she can hande our 12k fleet

[junior heron]

dunno

[wet root]

Hazel doesn't like underscores

[tulip vault]

that is true lol

[wet root]

In names

[tulip vault]

though you can probably just check the shells hitting your ship

[junior heron]

ah

[wet root]

I've had this issue a lot lol

[tulip vault]

strange

very strange

[glad aurora]

Hazel just isn't into it

[wet root]

You probably have to remove them in the name field in the xml as well

[tulip vault]

the name field doesn't have underscores

[wary flame]

older version

[tulip vault]

so weird

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Project OVERLORD' is composed of 1 ship which costs 3000 points:

Friendship Nonproliferation Agreement : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Gun Missile PD EWar]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
        SGM-200 Lancet : DIRECT - CMD/HOJ(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [9pts]
SGM-210 Activest Decoy : DIRECT - NONE - NONE [7pts]

[wet root]

Odd, maybe it's that Hazel likes spaces rather than dislikes underscores

[wary flame]

I think Hazel dislikes hyphens in ship names

I removed it

less missiles than I'd like but still a decently full backpack

[tulip vault]

volleys of 5 S2s?

[wet root]

Ill-starred hasn't been an issue for me, oddly

[wary flame]

five weave S2s for slapping small stuff, thirteen salvos

could go to 12 and add more DC

[wet root]

Surprised you're not putting any cruise S2H in there

[tulip vault]

mm, I suppose I understand s2s as an anti-small ship thing

[wet root]

Seems worth losing a salvo or two of S2s for the anticap

[wary flame]

shuttles, clippers, anything without adequate bastion coverage

[tulip vault]

yeah

I hesitate to criticise because I tend to think very harshly of battleships in general

it certainly seems like it could perform well

gun BBs are a terror now of days

[wary flame]

I have seen an older version do 40k damage and then get absolutely slapped by basic containers because it only had one defender per side and no softkill

this one deemphasizes the rebounds and empties out a quarter of the backpack for good softkill and an extra ammo elevator

[wet root]

Oh just noticed it's a supercorrelated Spyglass, fancy

[wary flame]

you're slow and your tracks and fire rate will get worse when interruptor and PD is up, but it should function

double GPC too

both features from the original OVERLORD I managed to preserve

[wet root]

Somewhat surprised that even with that many TCs you can land CMD hits on shuttles

[wary flame]

you have no lock capability so, well, don't get jammed

[wet root]

I like the HoJ backups, if you trackfire those down jamming LoBs can they survive with anything other than a friendly hangup/golfball Ocello?

[wary flame]

unsure

[grand pine]

3k for one ship is scary.. How much of that is missiles?

[wary flame]

650pts of missiles and missile infrastructure, not counting the Activist Decoys

which can share the launcher

[supple sonnet]

3k ships are definataly one of the harder to play fleets out there, but with the curent patch you only have to worry about missles as a BB most of the time.

[wary flame]

the PD escorts for my old BB have become less and less relevant, you can get away with pushing it a bit these days

[wet root]

Why the Rebounds instead of Stonewalls on the big mounts? Just saving points since those mounts have pretty mediocre angles anyway?

[tulip vault]

yeah, with single ship omni-softkill being extremely possible I don't think you really need PD escorts

[wary flame]

cheaper

[wet root]

Makes sense

[wary flame]

they're for stray S2s and rockets

big all-in rocket dumps are a danger without full Stonewall coverage but you will reap a bloody toll on shuttle squadrons before they launch

[grand pine]

what even is th the difference between aurora, defender and rebound

[wet root]

It's not like you're surviving a Gale strike that avoids your chaff anyway, so might as well save the points

[wet root]

20mm (Defender/Pavise) deal absurd DPS to a single target, they kill high hp targets like containers and torps. Flak (Stonewall/Rebound/Bastion) deal light AoE damage, they kill swarms of missiles like S2s and rockets (and decoys from containers)

Lasers (Aurora/Grazer) have perfect accuracy, so they can't be dodged by terminal maneuvers or sprinting hybrids. Auroras also have long (3k) range and can BSHORT to get better PD for a couple seconds before they catch on fire and explode

[wary flame]

I'd like jammers but this thing is already desperate for power so no blankets

if you lose the PCC, optimal missile defence requires cancelling fire orders on the main guns

[wet root]

I should update some of my OSP Gale fleets, with the move towards softkill they could eat well

[wary flame]

with it, you just shoot slower with interruptor up and PD firing

[mint sinew]

Anecdotally I've been seeing more OSP gale fleets/sidearms recently and they've reliably done okay.

[dark dawn]

Christ on a monocycle why am I so bad at this game

[bitter furnace]

Dual Axford fleets are notoriously tight on points. Usually with a single Axford you'd put a VLS in the back, but not an option here because missiles cost way too much. You can go the way of TF Oak and go with another main gun battery, allowing you to broadside for additional firepower. Alternatively, you can put an Mk65 on the back, for swatting shuttles while you bowtank against other threats. You can also put an Interruption or VLS-1-46 or a PDT there for increased missile defence. Finally, you can just put nothing there, and invest the points in your internals.

[dark dawn]

Got it, man why is this so difficult

Also the reason for the earlier message was me hitting #13 in my lose streak

[bitter furnace]

What are you losing to most often? Containers, cannon bulkers, being outcapped, etc?

[wary flame]

I set about Oak earlier to add a proper softkill suite and it's genuinely hard

[dark dawn]

250 bulkers and getting outcapped as ANS and OSP respectively

[wary flame]

should be able to handle 250 bulkers with bowtanking capital ships these days, try to only fight one or two at once

TF Oak modified with what I consider a bare minimum softkill suite nowadays

for the love of god montressor

/hazel

it's Oak with an interruptor, S2 SSJ AMMs, more defenders and active decoys/chaff

downside, less DC and ammo

[dark dawn]

Well I mean with ANS I mostly play CLs which
Tend to die

[wary flame]

yeah, 250 bulkers are your natural predator, but you want to be sitting right at 8km with your nose in

[supple sonnet]

Yeah jamming and using a rock so you don't have to fight the whole Shiver? Pack? at once as well as to hide you from any EWR's is the way you deal with bulkers as ANS. But also remember that falling back to a defensible position is almost always beter then just fighting in the open

At least that's been our xperince wiht 450 bulkers and BBs/CAs.

Cap-gaming on the other hand is a lot more of amindsent then a fleet build IMO. A lot of it is just going "no i don't like this fight" and peacing out to look for an easyer point to take, or if there si noting else a fight to help with. and as much as you need violance in you heart when you your capping a point bloodlust is your enmay

[wary flame]

dedicated capfleets are important to have but require a completely different way of operating

[dark dawn]

See the issue is the only sensible OSP fleet I can play is Mass Drivers, anything else I'm useless at.

At which point I mostly play sensors with two tugboats after shift clicking the biggest enemy.

[rigid bison]

Would MMT squadrons make a good cap fleet?

[wet root]

Playing sensors is a very important job! I would recommend prioritizing the smallest enemies almost always with MDs though

[supple sonnet]

What's the buld on MMT's again?

I know they are covergent wiht Duncans but but the same

[wet root]

MDs give Vauxes a bad day and absolutely smash anything smaller, only takes a couple volleys to kill an escort

[wet root]

I think 250/torps/jammer?

[dark dawn]

Right, because they're actually accurate.

[wet root]

Kind of, MMTs are excellent for killing the enemy cappers and scouts, but they're rather slow and vulnerable to CLs for doing the actual caps

So you kind of want a mix IMO

Of tugs + shuttles

[supple sonnet]

Right less sensor coverage then the duncans, and not the Knock-off stairs and torps mix that the duncan squaderns have

[wary flame]

an MMT is 100 or 250 on the front, bellbird, MLS-2 with 8 or so weave S2s, then whatever

[supple sonnet]

But I think our Tug dunacans are more a cap-QRF hybred fleet

[tulip vault]

Im not super convinced about MMTs but they do have some amount of punchup which is nice

[wet root]

Oh, S2s, interesting

I should consider putting 100s on the front of my tugs post 250 nerf

Can 100AP pen a Vaux?

[tulip vault]

I think so?

[supple sonnet]

It can technicaly

[wet root]

Also the HEI damage means they can't kill a lot of stuff on capitals, they can help out if someone else is fighting the capital already but they can't really kill one on their own

[mint sinew]

And due to how the damage mechanics work actually knock out small ships rather than just making big ships sad.

Also taking out the small ships means the capitals need to play more aggressively and so become easier targets later

Snap.

[dark dawn]

Define 'how the damage mechanics work'

[wet root]

Fracturing Blocks work like HEI missiles, in that they deal damage in a bunch of low-damage rays

[mint sinew]

Also, killing small escorts as a doctrine makes your missile teammates happy with you

[wet root]

Those rays can't break DT on capital ships, which have like 40% damage reduction

So they can red out stuff but not grey it out, and capitals have enough DC teams to just fix it back up pretty quickly

[dark dawn]

Ahhh

[wet root]

Only way you kill a capital with MDs is critical events or killing all their DC teams (which, admittedly, they can do pretty well)

[dark dawn]

Yeah, I kept targetting big ships because they're easier to hit, and because my teammates usually have nothing that pens the armour

[wet root]

It can be helpful to keep a big pinned down with MDs, but in general they like to hit stuff you already have friends hitting, because if you turn the BB or Axford red it makes it a lot easier for friendly 450 AP to turn them grey

But escorts are even tastier because people bring escorts because they need them to cover a weakness, and you can expose that weakness very quickly with MD fire

[dark dawn]

So like target and blow up PD frigates?

[wet root]

PD frigates, jamming sprinters

[supple sonnet]

It's why when we ambush with our Isakai Truck most of the first salvo goes into the escorts. and yeah

[wet root]

Even better if they've put their Bullseye on the escort

Killing the small stuff first is a good idea on a lot of fleets, MDs are just particularly effective at it

Raines usually get my focus when I'm running Ocellos, for example

[wet root]

Technically is all I need, I just need to be able to pos fire the drives after I hit a Vaux with a torp salvo to keep it down

[supple sonnet]

And an escort whit out it's big ship is now a dedicated caper with a playerd full attention behind it.

[mint sinew]

After a torp hit 100mm AP should go into a Vauxhall easily as you have these nice holes in their armour to shoot through

[wet root]

True, but the holes aren't always in the right place

[mint sinew]

But it will pen from a fresh start too, just not at an angle

[wet root]

Yep, and sitting right above is a good place to pos fire from anyway against Vauxes

Keep out of elevation of their guns in case they have a microreactor

[mint sinew]

Oh yeah. I've played a lot of turret bulker vs Vauxhall engagements and Vauxhalls don't love being showered in 100mm AP. You do want access to plasma/250mm to be actually able to kill them but 100mm AP will put the hurt on them

[wet root]

Yeah, I don't really mind not being able to k-kill 'em, if my 250-point tug can knock it out and keep it immobilized there until someone else shows up (from either team), I'm fairly happy

I also have a couple MD monitors I can put to the task if needed

[dark dawn]

See the problem is all of these strats rely on teamwork and cooperation
I play pubs.

[wet root]

Send up the Neb signal in here!

🚢

[dark dawn]

Fair

But also I can't rely on friendly pilot netters all the time, which is why I build fleets around the principle of 'can conceivably 1v1 3000 points of anything'

Which is doable with ANS with enough cheap-ish S3Hes

[wet root]

The problem is I'm not sure that really is a feasible build, since a more specialized fleet will win in its preferred engagement

If you want to win pubs what you really want is cap game thoguh

oh no c30s are 5 points more expensive than c53s

I do not have the points budget for this

[dark dawn]

Is that why everyone runs swarms?

[glad aurora]

one of the many reasons, such as them also being nigh impossible to kill

[supple sonnet]

c53's do let you finish off axfords wich is nice

Lark (They/Them) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) oh no c30s are 5 points more expensive than c53s

[wet root]

Swarms are also nice in that you are a lot less likely to lose your entire fleet

Whereas Axfords or Sollies you're a big priority target and once you've been targeted you don't get to play the video game any more

[glad aurora]

hell, not even axfords - vauxhalls also have the same problem

you can afford three at most

[wet root]

True, but they're pretty painfully slow at it with the new changes to them and tugs

[wet root]

True, though at least Vauxes are usually cruising more independently, so you won't just eat Gale strike 1 followed by Gale strike 2 to the other Axford

Hm. I have room for 600 100mm shells in my mag. Which two calibers do I take 250 of?

Thinking grape and AP

[supple sonnet]

There was this old Pyramid 23 artical that talks about the exact point whare qulaity gets trumped by quinity and it's not much in most cases. having two thigns that do half as much as the big thing is worth about 1.3x roughly in the games they did the math on. granted thease were hex and chit games wich are only vagualy related to neb, but like a group of five corves will lose 1-2 ships to a container strike that would kill a BB

[wary flame]

excellent content from the neb server

[supple sonnet]

and grape and AP do give you the most coverage. HE is relay only anti-ifrig

Lark (They/Them) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) Thinking grape and AP

[wary flame]

my interruption jammer and Pyrope's extremely strange AMMs are bullying torp ocellos

[rigid bison]

Anyone down for some pubulous?

[wet root]

Alas, not today for me

[wary flame]

the interruption jammer has been doing so much work at team support lately that I'm considering making a kind of standoff support frigate/tug and sticking a couple in my capfleets so they can also insure the real fleets against missiles

bellbird/dazzler or blanket/interruptor, plus a rack of bowling balls and S2H/weave S2s

[wet root]

For team support, could you put a hangup on a Sprinter and just have it hang out invisible comms jamming anything nearby?

[wary flame]

very possibly

hang on

[wet root]

Unfortunately I don't think you can track fire hangups on friendlies but even so the range seems nice

[wary flame]

that just gave me an idea

[bitter furnace]

Yeah Hangups don't work too well at defending their host ship, but you can use them to shield Interruptionless nearby allies

[tulip vault]

Excellent

[lime jungle]

'Cleric of Solomon' is a 'Raines' class Frigate that costs 630 points.

[wary flame]

softkill frigate

with some very strange missiles that I will not go into just yet, since they're ungodly expensive

[tulip vault]

I don’t know what this is a reference to but I do like the frigate

[wary flame]

K6BD frigates, for reasons that will become obvious once I actually test the tech on these to make sure it works

[wet root]

This is really an everything frigate

Shame you probably can't fit an ACA in there

Speaking of which, don't forget some sort of DC so you can flank and BSHORT

Also do you have the power budget for a Spyglass? The extra range on seeing missiles might be quite nice

[lime jungle]

'Defense Onion Soup' is a 'Sprinter' class Corvette that costs 307 points.

[rigid bison]

interruptor sprinter with well-fed defenders as a kinetic defense against incoming Containers and Pilums and the 250 to counter rockets and spammed S2s via destroying their common launch platforms.

[tulip vault]

Ah K6BD

Makes sense

[wet root]

It's always ridiculous to me that Raines only cost 25 points more than Sprinters

[tulip vault]

My first thought was some sort of insanely obscure double backflip biblical reference

[wet root]

(Though the value of Sprinters is in their speed and tiny sig ofc)

[wary flame]

updated cleric has DC, 545pts with only six of each missile, which is very reasonable

[tulip vault]

My crazy expensive capping torp frigates are 650, so that is indeed a downright reasonsble price

[wary flame]

well, it's only got 6 offensive S2H, they're just for shuttles

[tulip vault]

(The torp frigates can suplex an unsupported and poorly positioned lineship so it’s usually worth it)

Are those the only missiles it has?

[wary flame]

no, it is at 7110/7100

magazine 10 kw doesn't count so it's perfect

and I like para here because the intent is that the Cleric is deployed a few KM behind a friendly task force

where it can burnthrough, offset scout, floodlight to counter jamming and support SAH, blanket and hangup for softkill and still have missiles it can fire to nail OSP small stuff

the Sacred Technique S2H are something I need to test, they're Strange AMMs

main downside to this thing is that it has no chaff, but you can always toss the floodlight

something very satisfying about the thing you do when you adapt someone else's fleet, where you go through and check all the missiles and maybe replace them with your equivalents so you know the exact quirks and the right names, rename some ships, fiddle with compartment arrangement and magazine/VLS loads

this thought brought to you by adapting some imported torpedo sprinters to work with the softkill frigates

[olive blade]

s2h AMM

thats a new one

[wet root]

That must've been hilariously bad before the AMM changes, when interception chance was based on relative speed

Adjusting the sprint stage so it never actually sprints

[mint sinew]

Can confirm this, I'd been meaning to build a support/cap fleet and your posted Cleric of Solomon build gave me the inspiration I was after for the support elements. Pretty sure I'll have ended up in a different space than you did

[olive blade]

zero dc is uh intense

[wary flame]

Mine is purely a first draft, the first change I might make is swapping floodlight for chaff and flares, but the idea is that is a one stop softkill ship for a fleet in front of it so we'll see if that's necessary. Floodlight is handy for counterjam.

[olive blade]

I can definitely see the logic

[dark dawn]

So, I'm wondering now
Besides 'take a recon corvette', how exactly do you build and play a battleship?

I've had an idea to double up on whiplashes and use beams, but I don't know how viable that is

That or cannons, I'm not sure which

[quiet quiver]

AIUI guns are the most meta for BB, sometimes with a beam in the rear slot for vaporizing flankers

[olive blade]

beams are plenty good, I'd look at tom's build

generally you just fight stuff and try and not get got

[wary flame]

Beam BB wants to be sneakier since it's got no range and is effectively a 5km radius instant win bubble if it doesn't get torpedoed,so ideally you ambush at least something.

My standard BB is 450 on the three forward-facing mounts, beam on the back

[dark dawn]

AIwhat?

[quiet quiver]

As I Understand It

[dark dawn]

Ahh, got it

[wary flame]

Fixed the DC in the slightly updated model, it was a mistake

@tulip vault can I have your latest gale MN fleet? I would like to test a couple of things with the softkill frigates against it

[lime jungle]

Fleet '3.0k - Mass Gales v4' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

    Mynydd Oer : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [PD Missile]
 Mynydd Marwol : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Ewar Missile]
   Mynydd Fawr : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Ewar Missile]
Mynydd Dialgar : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Sensor Missile]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-132 Fflowlyn Block III : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [4pts]
  SGM-133 Fflowyn Block IV : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [9pts]
            SGM-218 Drudwy : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR)/HOJ(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [4pts]

[tulip vault]

I'd reccomend trying to softkill this fleet with the gales swapped to wake backups rather than HoJ as well

[wary flame]

At that point I just need blankets and flares, I want to practice the pulloff micro

[tulip vault]

yeah

the one other thing I would see is if the frig can softkill missiles actually aimed at it

It's just good practice to kill the escorts ime

[wary flame]

The idea is that it's 3-4km behind the fleet it's escorting

If the blanket is insufficient I'll drop the floodlight and get some chaff in there

[wary flame]

OK, this thing is extremely annoying to test with enemy control on in the test range, will have to steal @tulip vault to test it properly

[tulip vault]

I'm actually around right now if you'd like

[wary flame]

sure

[tulip vault]

testing conclusions: misc's secret technique is very effective, and I have made a new horrible gale fleet

SAH/CMD anyone?

[wary flame]

I have now refitted the battleship I was just trying on you with six of the new missiles at the cost of five of those S2s and a few Activist Decoys

[junior heron]

I was going to build a container liner with this setup

[wary flame]

so it's only got 55, but that's probably fine

I still wish it could run jamming but it just doesn't have the power

and I'm not going down to two drives

[junior heron]

I think my 12k fleet does run SAH/CMD just because I can guarantee everyone on my team is bringing illuminators

[wary flame]

the reason they're called Relief is because they are inspired by a different famous sphere

[tulip vault]

excellent

[dark dawn]

Aaand that's game 14

[wary flame]

eight restores is dangerously low for a battleship but at this point I feel I really need that blanket

so 2 PCC it is

[quiet quiver]

At least running out of restores is pretty far down the onion

[tulip vault]

8 feels like a reasonable amount

[wary flame]

lost an ammo elevator for a scrier and amanged to shoehorn in a blanket

[tulip vault]

down to, 3?

or 4

[wary flame]

3

on the upside I found the points to swap the aux steering for an extra RDC

[tulip vault]

I think 3's a very respecatable amount

[wary flame]

horrible abomination

[junior heron]

regular amount of power

[wary flame]

works with 4 ammo elevators but it has so much in softkill I almost feel it needs a scrier

[tulip vault]

[wary flame]

by your standards, sure

this is a gun BB with the power setup of a beam BB

[tulip vault]

I'm not sold on the correlated spyglass, but if it works it works

[oak shell]

Yeah sure that's a normal number of track correlators

[dark dawn]

I love how it has every single drive too

[wary flame]

it can't lock, so the correlators are not optional

[dark dawn]

You can't fit a bullseye on it?

[junior heron]

a bullseye? with that power economy?

[wary flame]

more to the point it's too damn expensive

[sharp crow]

spend less on track correlators

[dark dawn]

I meant with a downgraded radar and fewer track correlators

But if points are an issue then fair

[wary flame]

OK. new version

only eight salvos of S2s rather than twelve

has stonewalls, intel instead of scrier, 4 AEs, 4 TCs, full softkill suite including a blanket and it's swapped the Activist Decoys for the S2H version so it can defend nearby teammates

[tulip vault]

4 TCs?? goodness

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Backpack Battleship Intel' is composed of 1 ship which costs 3000 points:

Friendship Non-Proliferation Agreement : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Gun Missile PD EWar]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
           SGM-200 One-Point Strike : DIRECT - CMD/HOJ(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [9pts]
SGM-H-267 SACRED TECHNIQUE - RELIEF : DIRECT - CMD - NONE [15pts]

[wary flame]

this ship is probably just trying to do too much and should go back down to regular activist decoys to fill the missile mag up more, but I want to try it as the Super Frankenship

[quiet quiver]

Obviously for SuperDuper Frankenship you should make it a 6k fleet with escorts

With a 4k solomon (or more?) as the backbone

[wet root]

Might be worth testing how much of a difference the second missile array makes

Without terminals I don't think there's much a 5-missile S2 strike breaks that a 3-missile one doesn't

(Though you lose a lower fraction to a single Grazer)

But I've no idea how weave changes that equation

[wary flame]

5 is a good number for damage output, it reliably gets tugs

[junior heron]

@wicked mirage I finally tried out your modified version of the Autumn of the Storm
I really feel the lack of FPAs
also the missiles are a little inconvenient to use - I want manual fire for the SSJ missiles, but I feel like the s2 AMMs want to be automatically fired. Just gonna hope that something gets implemented to fix that (either no programming time for track-fired defensives, or a manual-only fire doctrine).
That being said, having the s2 AMMs _ was_ a huge help against a rocket dump, and the auroras were pretty good at fending off some smaller volleys that had me worried.
I didn't really get any corssfix from the Autumn's pinard, but that was just a case of the map being Styx and I just kind of ran into the enemies.
I did miss having the restore for the Long Distant Road, and I think it wants a second jammer so it can truly just go invisible and run away. As much as I want to be able to fit a second bullseye in somewhere, it got caught out and drive killed pretty early. Also I'm scared for it not having a reinforced CIC D:
thanks for the fleet! fun to playtest other people's versions of stuff I'm familiar with.

(sorry for the giant wall of text, got excited to talk)

[wary flame]

OK, I now have the intel version, that is a horrible abomination, and the non-intel version, which is actually quite smooth

downside, seven restores each

[supple sonnet]

We run jammers on our gun soloman, and hug rocks so we can keep the enamy in the jamming cone and at 6-8 km. but we have not relay ahd a chance to test our recent updates

TheLastShogun ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) So, I'm wondering now
Besides 'take a recon corvette', how exactly do you build and play a battleshi…

[wary flame]

slightly less horrible mutant

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Backpack Battleship' is composed of 1 ship which costs 3000 points:

Friendship Non-Proliferation Agreement : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Gun Missile PD EWar Sensor]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
           SGM-200 One-Point Strike : DIRECT - CMD/HOJ(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [9pts]
SGM-H-267 SACRED TECHNIQUE - RELIEF : DIRECT - CMD - NONE [15pts]

[wary flame]

bullseye can switch freely with blanket depending on how scared of Tron you are at any given moment

[junior heron]

Misc I'm going to time travel back two years and tell you that you will eventually be building solo 3000 point battleships

remember when you were the light cruiser commander

[wary flame]

yeah, I used to be The CL Guy

back when everyone was arguing about whether to put three or four guns on the CL

[junior heron]

I honestly got a little worried last boat night when I saw you were running CLs again

[wet root]

Huh, chaff + interruptor + bullseye on the other 3?

[wary flame]

usually either Mace torpedoes or some kind of PD setup

[wary flame]

none of the old instincts tell me how to treat rocket containers but once I realised it was "chaff, slide and have a chaff escort in front" it all fell into place

CLs have always been my "I don't know what else to play" fleet

[wicked mirage]

Alrighty! Yeah I get you, it's definitely different from what you usually run lol

I hope you got some helpful information from playing it! And also had fun ^^

[junior heron]

yeah!

[night fable]

New monitors can fit two DC complexes if you use the middle slots for berthings

[wet root]

Don't DCXs have compounding costs though?

[junior heron]

yes

2nd one costs like 240

[tulip vault]

But think about the durability

You could be

Invincible

[wet root]

I suppose if you want to make your brick really good at cap stalling

[night fable]

Oh I didn't realize the cost compounded

[wet root]

I still love the idea of Citadel Mag/Citadel CIC/DCX on lineships

All in one stack

[wet root]

Yee, it's a bit of a shame but also otherwise lineships would get a bit silly

[supple sonnet]

Yeah but you can go with DCX and Large Storage for the extra resotres and team.

[sharp crow]

if only roofguns weren't viciously ripped away from us

[supple sonnet]

the funny thing is for MLS bulkers the new c53 is like slightly better just becouse of the price

[olive blade]

I'd rather the bigger clip tbh

I found in my missile bulkers I still used the guns a lot

[wet root]

The price is nice but definitely not worth the halved damage

[olive blade]

I found on a good game about 1/3 of the damage was guns and 2/3 gales for the gale liners

[wet root]

How does power work with Ammo Elevators? Does it only matter if they're powered when the reload cycle starts, or does it provide a modifier to how quickly the reload progresses?

[olive blade]

Not sure

Id expect when they start but I don't know

[olive blade]

I tried this and a beam got exactly the cic in the first second

[olive blade]

Regular s2 battleship hmm

That's a new one

[night fable]

<@&942093958551588904> And the stream is live! I'm hosting yet more NEBULOUS: Fleet Command viewer games on my channel below!

Anyone is free to join, so bring your fleets!

https://www.twitch.tv/docvivileandra

[lime jungle]

Fleet '2x CL, Beam DD,Torp FFL' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

Business of Ferrets : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun Sensor Missile PD]
Scurry of Squirrels : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun Sensor Missile PD]
   Charm of Finches : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Gun Beam]
       Fancy Pigeon : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Sensor PD]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-H-302 Plan B : DIRECT - CMD - HEKP [25pts]
  SGT-303 Plan C : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [10pts]

[arctic magnet]

a CL fleet?

I guess the idea with the beam DD is that it's essentially a mine

[wary flame]

landmine beam, DD is a very good idea but I would drop the guns, give it a reinforced DC locker, some chaff and a defender

shove a scryer in that spyglass cruiser and get an interruptor jammer in there somehow because people are loving the CMD spam lately

otherwise, good cruising

[arctic magnet]

hm, might just drop a Bullseye for the Interruptor

[runic torrent]

<@&942093958551588904> opening up the boat night channels a little early so I can wander off and make myself some grub

[misty storm]

boats! boats! boats! boats! boats! boats! boats! boats!

[noble zodiac]

nebus

[sly glade]

oh no here's me who was relying on boat night opening at the usual time so I would have time to eat this grub I made haha

(I definitely still have time)

[noble zodiac]

i uh cant show up today for the record. my PC refuses to hide the taskbar when i try to open neb and the reason for that is my OS files are somehow corrupted! so ive been trying to fix them for the past like 3 days lmao

[sly glade]

rip

[wet root]

That sucks

[misty storm]

is big raider, small yard drive whats typical for an ocello?

also waht amount of sandshot is good?

for 2 sarissas

[wet root]

I run just the raider, need the power for EWAR

2-300 for 2 sarissas

[glad aurora]

2x whiplash 1x yard 🙂

become battlecruiser, become ungovernable

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Deaf to All but the Song' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Ill-Starred Dive : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD Sensor EWar]
    Amplify Echo : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD Sensor EWar]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-154 Balestra Block II : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [1pts]

[junior heron]

lore accurate ANS vs. OSP matchup

[wet root]

@toxic scaffold

[supple sonnet]

Thank you

[misty storm]

this look good?

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Ocellos' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Ill-Starred Dive : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD Sensor EWar]
     Gruff Cubit : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD Sensor EWar]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-113 Jab : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [2pts]

[junior heron]

@sly glade did I knock out the CIC on your Ocello at the end there?

[arctic magnet]

no, the reactor started overloading

[junior heron]

ah

lol

i only had it on visual so I was just POS firing into the ocello's flank

[arctic magnet]

daaamn

good beam

[toxic scaffold]

@wicked mirage

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'BBtest' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Queen of Hunger : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Gun EWar PD Sensor]
Knave of Plenty : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Keine lust' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

Queen of Hunger : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
Knave of Plenty : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
   Jack of Lack : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Ocellos' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Gutsy Vigil : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD Sensor EWar]
 Bandy Void : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD Sensor EWar]

[misty storm]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[wet root]

My takeaway from this boat night is that I'm out of practice with Gale torps

The term for this is "foreshadowing"

[junior heron]

oh no

[misty storm]

do i need 2 blankets on ocellos?

cos i dont know how to fit in the extra ammo elevator otherwise

[wet root]

No, bringing Blankets on the Ocello is something that's mostly specific to me

[olive blade]

I think even 1 is pretty nice

[misty storm]

yeah i like the idea of at least 1

is it good to have a rapid?

ive got 30 points to play with

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Ocellos' is composed of 1 ship which costs 1470 points:

Peppy Flag : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD Sensor EWar]

[olive blade]

yeah rapids are useful

[misty storm]

im not sure what to fill the back bottom mount slot with, max 20 pts

[wet root]

Personally I would probably lose a reinforced for another Sarissa, but I am the greediest of players

[misty storm]

id rather keep 4 restores

[wet root]

T20 isn't actually a ridiculous idea

[olive blade]

you could put another dc on one but not the other I guess

[wet root]

450s can't kill sprinters, having something that can is nice

[olive blade]

a thruster armour module is an option, maybe if the power works swapping down some reactors from boosted to normal and adding a micro reactor

[supple sonnet]

We do like the anti light backpack, as you don't have to bowtank them wiht capitals

[wet root]

T20 might also be slightly less useless at PD since it can borrow Sarissa locks

[misty storm]

can the models of bigger guns be shot through or are they like, actual things that can mask out other guns

[wet root]

Is that the backpack mount or the ventral? Assumed the Bullseye is on the back

[misty storm]

bottom

vls on the front bottom

[wet root]

They can be shot through I believe

[olive blade]

I do find the mag is pretty tight on ocellos

for extra guns

but one t20 is not the most hungry

[misty storm]

what do you need to pen frigates with for osp 100?

[wet root]

Grape can if they're not very angled IIRC

[misty storm]

cos ive got 1 point hanging and im trying to decide between a point of 100 ap, 100 he, 100 he-hc, or sand

[junior heron]

pretty sure 100mm comes in packs of 250 now

[misty storm]

yeah

[junior heron]

HE is probably best for frigates

[misty storm]

ok

[junior heron]

grape works too

and is good for sprinters/hopeful for PD

[olive blade]

huh

[misty storm]

looks good?

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Ocellos' is composed of 1 ship which costs 1500 points:

Peppy Flag : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD Sensor EWar]

[misty storm]

ah i capped out the mag

do i need that much 450 ap?

[wet root]

I bring thrice that lol

[misty storm]

yeah well you do 2 mags

[wet root]

But I also specifically fight capitals

[misty storm]

450 he can still pen a solomon right?

[wet root]

In my one mag version I go 300/300

[supple sonnet]

broad side but like that's not a postion you can always get

[wet root]

From the sides yes

[supple sonnet]

but if your planing on just running from solomans then like you don't need as much AP but that's not always an option.

[misty storm]

hrm. how quick would i be able to kill a keystone's beam with that t20 and ap?

[olive blade]

one t20? I dunno 10 minutes

[misty storm]

fair

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Ocellos' is composed of 1 ship which costs 1500 points:

Peppy Flag : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD Sensor EWar]

[misty storm]

looking good?

[supple sonnet]

yeah looks preaty well rounded

[misty storm]

Ok thanks all, that’s what I was going for

[olive blade]

yeah that looks quite solid

[wary flame]

these container types are getting out of hand

I am going to try segregating each kind of strike into its own bank and see if it hurts strike density much

if it doesn't you get the nice upside of being easy to assess for damage and repair

[misty storm]

huh. it seems like bigger guns DO mask out smaller guns

but my ship isnt turning

i wish i could put the turret on a lil stand or smth

so it would point over the 450 on the bottom

[supple sonnet]

You want an angle like this with ocellos to get all the guns to bare, and while it's not bow tanking it dose engage the romulan cloaking device

[misty storm]

romulan cloaking device lol

[supple sonnet]

I mean at the right angle your RCS drops to 1/3rd of bow on

[noble zodiac]

so the CMD are for like

TRP shots

and then the regular cruise do regular cruise things?

... how many of these to a strike?
is this the dreaded 14 channel CLN

[wary flame]

No, only 12, although pushing up to 14 is now affordable if you really need it

4 beehives and 8 warhead containers to a strike, I find it economises suitably on damage

[quiet quiver]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3018223576

Carrier has arrived

I guess a modder got tired of waiting

It looks playable but really rough

[tulip vault]

Yeesh, I hate to dunk but that is not a good looking ship

Glowing hangar bays are really not nebulous’ vibe

[quiet quiver]

Shh, it matches the bridge windows

TBH I actually like the models, there’s just been reports of jank in the discussion thread

But I’m really impressed at how ambitious it is

[misty storm]

Understandable that it’s rough lol

[tulip vault]

I mean, fair enough lol, Id just expect something more bsg-like from the real models

[rigid bison]

It’s so, so very jank

(Also giving the ANS a way to launch a lot of S3H at once is silly)

[tulip vault]

Im interested to see how it plays, but I have no access to the fleet command at the moment

[glad aurora]

How do these strike craft operate

[misty storm]

so, you add a strike craft wing to your fleet like you would a ship, and then your carriers launch to strike craft to fill them up

its

weird but it works?

its nowhere near balanced

but its there! and i am suprised someone managed to pull it off

[glad aurora]

And their weapons?

[misty storm]

ans just has torp launchers, and osp gets 100mm and rockets

its kinda silly

[glad aurora]

torpedo bombers real 👁️

[misty storm]

It’s

So weird and kinda nonfunctional but you can just give the ans strike craft s3h which is busted overpowered

[glad aurora]

Do CIWS and such currently engage strike craft, or is it just RPF's job

[glad aurora]

👁️

[misty storm]

Yeah they get engaged by pd

They get shredded

I would not use this in an actual game it’s fucked and weird but hey! It’s there!

I’m astounded someone managed to pull this off!

[misty storm]

Some example fleets from the dev for the carriers would be helpful

The same dev made a vanilla+ mod which, among other things, adds an ans command cruiser with a big long mount for s2 or s3 launchers

[noble zodiac]

weird, i keep hearing the exact opposite issue

(that theyre super resilient to basically all PD)

[misty storm]

Some of the ships get taken down then the pathing of the rest of the squadron gets weird

[glad aurora]

This is the first mod that I'm genuinely interested in trying, honestly

I long for the mines (Carrier fleet with double gun CL escort)

[misty storm]

You might not be able to pull that off they’re pretty expensive

[wary flame]

Strike craft S3H strikes me as generally inferior to just yubbing them unless you can use them to guide CMD seekers from a safe launch platform

Strike craft torpedoes strike me as far more dangerous, their primary limit is range

[misty storm]

You can put a radar on strike craft so you can fish things out, and pd guns on em too so you can take out amms

[glad aurora]

... you're telling me I can have CAP with PD around my carrier with extra Defenders for anti-container work

I'm downloading this mod right now

but yes, what Misc said is my general read when it comes to why I was eyeing up S3T

[misty storm]

For ans, it’s a single torpedo tube, defender, auora, or a radar that can’t lock

[glad aurora]

the most important thing:

can PD on strike craft shoot down other strike craft

[misty storm]

Not sure

I’d assume so

[glad aurora]

carrier with 2x bomber 1x interceptor 1x CAP flights and unit-organic AWACS...

also, on the subject of vanilla+, this is terrifying

[misty storm]

Yeah

[misty storm]

Lmk what you cook up tho

[glad aurora]

At the moment, I'm tied up in "design an air-launched torpedo," but my current plans are "carrier, 2x9 torpedo groups with eight cmd/wake torpedoes and one radar, 1x3 interceptor group with all defenders"

ideally I also fit a gun CL in, but that's entirely dependent on cost - a proper fleet carrier is base 1500

actually, @wary flame what's the current state of the art on ANS torpedo seekers anyway

I think it's 8/6 engine-warhead, cmd/???

[wary flame]

I use almost exclusively 2800-ish damage 4.8km range CMD/Wake torpedoes with corkscrew, because it seems to work fine as a standard model and is extremely defender-resistant

Depending on launch platform I have similar models with Act/[CMD] (fired from spyglass or EWR ships with tracks too bad to use regular CMD) and Arad/Act (launched from capvettes and tugs that may not live long enough to properly guide a CMD strike)

[glad aurora]

Strike craft radars can't lock, but an organic in-group radar should provide a good enough track for CMD primary

[wary flame]

If it doesn't, try Act/[CMD] on ACCEPT, that way it still has some kind of guidance if you lose the radar and can find its own targets and check against the track number to validate rather than using datalink targeting data that might suck

I've also seen CMD/Arad purely as a countermeasure against the launch platform being jammed too hard to find tracks

[glad aurora]

Most jamming is tug-based, yeah? Don't really want my air-launched torpedoes going for those guys

[wary flame]

Also common on MN squadrons or Ocellos, but it varies

I wonder if strike craft get liquefied by grazer shuttles due to the instant damage pulse

[glad aurora]

Almost definitely, but we'll have to test it

OSP PD seems to be primarily Grazer-, Aurora-, and Sarissa-based last I checked, so realistically I'm designing torpedoes that avoid the first two

Sarissas are something my planes have to dodge, and by that I mean "I have to find enough rocks to put between me and the AA railguns"

[wary flame]

Planes may be agile enough to sarissa weave

OSP PD has shifted largely to AMMs once people figured out how to build them, which don't really trouble torpedoes at all, but to be fair neither does almost anything else.

[misty storm]

I have no clue what price point the smaller carriers are supposed to be

[glad aurora]

Bah humbug, escort carriers are fake

There are only fleet carriers

speaking of, is it appropriate to be so committed to the vibes that every PD gun on the carrier is a Stonewall

[quiet quiver]

The fleet carriers definitely look designed to be 3k ships once you factor in the cost of the fighters

[wary flame]

My standard ANS PD toolkit is chaff, flares, 8+ active decoys, 1-2 defenders and a bit of flak these days

Since a carrier is basically a cruise missile platform it can probably forego the interruptor, and defender CAP handles that

20mm cap you can fly towards incoming container strikes might just delete them from the game, since ideally they'll intercept before decoy deployment

[glad aurora]

It's going to be a micro and offset spotter war, I think.

Container liners finding approach vectors that avoid the CAP flight, carriers locking down approach vectors while swapping between their attack flights and CAP

[glad aurora]

The fact that I can't defend myself against shuttles is going to be Interesting, if that's how the points shake out, but there's probably a roofgun-equivalent mount somewhere

[formal tiger]

oh, i played around with that mod some the other day

big fan of that creator's work, but the Carrier mod's definitely janky (affectionate)

[quiet quiver]

Or you just keep one wing hanging about with PD and anti-shuttle torps and hope for the best

Esp since the hull currently has cranked DR it can take some fire and keep going

[glad aurora]

Yeah, we'll see if that ends up being viable in the attack scheme I have set - ideally, I'm going to want something like ~20 torpedoes for my outbound flights to be competitive by output

[quiet quiver]

(Probably to be nerfed)

[misty storm]

i was messing around with the command cruiser a bit

hey you want a yub ship that can also take a 450 turret?

It’s hilarious

It can take 160 s2s just on the big mounts

[misty storm]

Also uh, can someone post the file for activest decoy?

[formal tiger]

yeah, the Typhon's very fun

[junior heron]

this is the one I use, you can remove Cold Gas Bottle if you want to save a point.

[lime jungle]

SGM-299 Activer Decoy is a size 2 missile that costs 8 points.

[misty storm]

thanks

[misty storm]

can an interruption jammer jam out CMD missiles?

[junior heron]

usually, that's its purpose

close range torps with a cr75 are harder

[misty storm]

cr75?

[glad aurora]

@wary flame current air-launched torpedo draft

[lime jungle]

SGT-360 Kaladanda is a size 3 missile that costs 10 points.

[glad aurora]

(hot launch, since it doesn't say)

I admit, I'm not completely sure about just flat-out abandoning Maneuverability on the triangle, but I'm not sure if an aerial torpedo needs it

[misty storm]

You still need maneuver for weave

[glad aurora]

Yeah, thus the issue.

[rigid bison]

And for how the missiles just spawn wherever the SC was at the instant they fired

[misty storm]

it seems like you're supposed to use a 3 fighter formation with the escort carrier and a 9 fighter formation with the full carrier. no clue about OSP

[glad aurora]

hm.

Maybe I can just dump range since I'm using planes...

But I don't want to get the planes shredded by PD

[wary flame]

My current standard torp is the SGT-366 Gom Jabbar, so named because I based it on something called the Crysknife, it's in this thread somewhere but search does not want to work today

[junior heron]

bigger, more powerful antenna.
Ocello has a cr70 which gets through interruptor at close range, the full big cr75 is alliance (and therefore +ocello) only

[misty storm]

ah ok

[wet root]

This is a really long-ranged torp, don't you just need enough range to keep the strike craft outside their PD envelope?

[misty storm]

Yeah like how far can OSP pd shoot out to?

Not counting sarissas of course

[misty storm]

i wonder if hazel will read this

[lime jungle]

Fleet '2 Escort Carriers' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

  All Royal : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun PD]
Blown Fluff : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun PD]
 Dyed Metal : Skate []
 Clear Ploy : ANS 3 Craft Formation []
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-171 Tribble Container : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
          SGT-313 Javelin : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [12pts]

Mods required:

• https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3018223576

[misty storm]

huh, thats cool

[noble zodiac]

yeah hazel does still show the compartments that are on the ship even if it doesnt have the hull data to know what the empty ones are supposed to be

[glad aurora]

That's what I'm not sure of, with respect to what is the PD envelope of OSP

[misty storm]

3k ish?

[glad aurora]

The most I can recall is something - yeah

[misty storm]

dont quote me on that

[glad aurora]

~3k for Auroras

I might just hedge my bets and shoot for 3.5k of range

[misty storm]

yeah

[mint sinew]

AMM range is the big unknown there (assuming they target strike craft). 20mm and flak is the same for both factions at ~2km. So you are dodging auroras at 3k

[glad aurora]

Gotcha.

also strange: I can put 27 torpedoes on 9 strike craft

Does that mean they carry three each, or do I need to go back to the carrier for reloads or something?

[misty storm]

i think they have like. a collective ammo pool

and thier tube just reloads

[glad aurora]

Hm.

Oh wait LMAO

Hangars on a fleet carrier don't give you offensive capacity, you need the ceremonial arming missile for now

Missile channels are how many fighters you can launch at a time

Strike craft are constantly evasive/dodging, so Sarissas will target but basically can't hit them

• PD shreds strike craft
• my defenders on my Ocellos do fantastic work vs. torpedoes

[misty storm]

carriers seem really fucking overcosted

i cant really fill them out

[glad aurora]

Yeah, I'm at 18 strike craft using 16 12pt torpedoes for each of two squadrons of 9 (eight shooters, one radar), carrier as empty as you can possibly get it for modules, and that's already 2790pts

I will say, 32 torpedoes effective is damn good for a 3k fleet, but at that point you shouldn't be able to carry up to 54 planes

[misty storm]

yeah its

weird

[glad aurora]

It's led to a very funny situation, though

Which is that I only need 27 planes, so I drop one hangar and replace it with a triple 450mm

I am now an IPS-N Greenland

[misty storm]

Thing is idk what to really put for modules since nothing buffs planes

[glad aurora]

Programming channels

[misty storm]

You don’t need more programming channels to have more planes out

[glad aurora]

How do you get more planes out at a time, then?

Because launching one at a time is very eh.

[misty storm]

You can just do it

They launch fast

[glad aurora]

Tempted to just build for 4k-6k or something

[wet root]

This probably means you need to up their maneuvering, torps should be able to break kinetic PD with few losses

I have about 3.5k range at 200m/s IIRC

[misty storm]

This mod is only 2 days old so

[glad aurora]

Ah, I see. Mine are much faster, so I assume they might've given up too much maneuver

[misty storm]

30 points for one tube is kind of a lot

[wet root]

Yeah, you want to spend a couple points on maneuver, it will do a lot more than the speed will against most PD

[wet root]

An MLS-3 costs 30 points and only launches two at a time, being able to launch remotely seems worth the extra price

[misty storm]

ah fair

but yeah this stuff feels really overcosted

[glad aurora]

seems balanced with current conl to me

[misty storm]

but, it feels weird to not like, fill the ship out yaknow

[glad aurora]

oh, 100%

Interesting, plane squadrons fill out from the bottom up

(and, despite counting as missiles, they don't actually get buffed by channels)

[glad aurora]

alright, so:

• the best air-launched torpedo is apparently max maneuverability, outside of 2k range, slingshot them in and run
• the plane behavior is too incredibly jank right now to get good torpedo runs against optimized PD
  (the planes end up desyncing (??) or something and rubberbanding around, so you lose part of your squadron and your launches end up not working)

Kind of sad. But I got one (1) actual, honest to god torpedo hit in on a double Ocello close formation and I'm counting that as a success

[misty storm]

yeah i dont think theyre good rn

again this is a 2 day old extremely janky mod

[glad aurora]

I look forward to seeing it finished, though!

It's got chutzpah

[misty storm]

I think I’d rather wait till the official carriers come out but yeah

[noble zodiac]

yeah the Manta is way too expensive
most of the reason for that, afaik (although it was mostly a coincidence of errors) is that they have fucking 50% DR and hilariously closely packed compartments

colepercy is allegedly going to

fix that

at somepoint

hopefully

[rigid bison]

Honestly all the carrier mod does for me is make me interested in what Mazer will do with the ability to meaningfully change game systems

[night fable]

And we're live with yet more weekly viewer games in NEBULOUS: Fleet Command! Anyone is free to join, so bring your own fleet!

https://twitch.tv/docvivileandra
<@&942093958551588904>

[topaz jolt]

Hii hi, are peoples still playing??

[misty storm]

whipped smoething up rq with the battlecruiser, no clue how balaned the vanilla+ mod is

[lime jungle]

Fleet '450 BC + Missile Frigates' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

 About Keep : Constantine []
Ashen Chant : 'Raines' class Frigate [PD Missile]
Pagan Grant : 'Raines' class Frigate [PD Missile]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
                             SGM-110 Block : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
                     SGM-299 Activer Decoy : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR) - NONE [8pts]
SGM-H-216 Stairs With not Enough Head Room : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [11pts]

Mods required:

• https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3047591006

[mint sinew]

Not sure if anything in the mod changes this, but generally speaking spyglass tracks need more than a single TC to be good enough to fire on unlocked. At which point I probably wouldn't bother with the first TC unless I was committing harder.

Double basic drives offer no benefits outside of redundancy so you might be better off shaking loose the points to run something fancier

[misty storm]

okay

yeah i really didnt know what to do with the two drives there

[mint sinew]

If you don't know what you want dragon/whip generally produces better all round performance than twin stock drives.

[misty storm]

ok

[noble zodiac]

new carrierulous patch just dropped

cole didn’t announce it much but

[glad aurora]

What did it do?

[noble zodiac]

well a bunch of things

but most relevantly to that line of discussion:

manta is actually sane now

[glad aurora]

beautiful

[glad aurora]

Is there a patch notes anywhere?

[noble zodiac]

no lmao

hence "cole didnt announce it very much"

also included in the patch:
- the normals got fixed (which im partially responsible for xP) so they dont look Weirdly Shaded™️ now
- C4 "secondary hangars" for capship backpacks with 3 fighters each
- apparently OSP fighters got their stats tweaked to be less prone to Not Being Able To Shoot (with word that AGM is actively working on fixing the actual kinematics)
- OSP fighters also got a torp tube of their own

[glad aurora]

no carrying a three-fighter scout squadron on a vauxhall, it's so joever.

[noble zodiac]

oh also they got their durability tweaked

(and by "tweaked" both factions' fighters went down to 140 HP, from 200 for the remora and apparently fucking 500 for the breaker)

breaker got armor so it can bounce flak tho

general word seemed to be that they were way too hard to kill so

[glad aurora]

Have people been able to make them successful on offense, though?

[misty storm]

oh no you can put a secondary hangar on a typhon...

[glad aurora]

The fighters are great missile interceptors, I've had a devil of a time with getting torp squadrons through good PD

[misty storm]

you can have 3 scout ships on that monster of a yub cruiser

[noble zodiac]

https://c.tenor.com/HbVUSboFSaYAAAAM/good-catra.gif

....

realization:
fighters with a torp tube are just S4H

unrelated: cant wait for us to do a gimmick fight night w the carrier mod and pyrope whips out a 450 Manta or a plane axford (and then does really well with them)

[glad aurora]

honestly, I'd do FPA + ereg beam Manta with nothing but fighters

[noble zodiac]

... that... might actually be a genuinely decent idea

go looking for the carrier
find the carrier
"HAHA im gonna kill the carrier"
it beams you

probably more relevant once like

carriers restocking their fighters becomes a thing

but yea the most noticeable thing for me at least is

before normal map fix

after normal map fix

yes theyre difft colors but

[glad aurora]

I run a beam on my Manta instead of a second hangar for cost reasons, it's probably a genuinely decent idea

[misty storm]

well the hull is now only 1000 so

[noble zodiac]

(and im ngl this is probably shitty of me bc i came at him outta the blue but im weirdly kinda proud of the fact that that got fixed, cuz i suggested the thing that fixed it)
(cuz i Noticed That It Was Weird and made the connection to smth i noticed in my own modding endeavors and it turned out to be the thing i thought it was, so i Did The Helpy Thing, And It Actually Helped for once, and putting in the effort to overcome the anxiety actually paid off for once)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/631889961163161612.webp?size=64&quality=lossless

[noble zodiac]

yea

[glad aurora]

To get 2x9 shooters and 1x3 CAP into 3k, I'm still having to leave space empty in the ship

[noble zodiac]

BUT that means you can run like

a 500pt escort frigate

[glad aurora]

Glad to hear it!

[noble zodiac]

in case you get yubbed

[glad aurora]

I will never get yubbed (CAP flight + 4x Stonewall + 2x Defender)

[noble zodiac]

fair

[olive blade]

I'm personally not super big on playing random mods, its just a lot of work to learn and test for each one

[glad aurora]

Oh, 100% agreed, I'm just really into this because Carriers

[misty storm]

yeah were not doing this for boat night

[glad aurora]

(It also turns out, as I test this more, that the X-factor for effective torpedo hits is having a good lock)

(the radar on the planes themselves is really stupendously bad for CMD missiles, I'll probably go to Act/Wake)

[noble zodiac]

yeah its basically Frontline accuracy

(i.e. not great)

[noble zodiac]

or EO

[misty storm]

:devious:

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'CC + Scouts' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

Straw Black : Typhon []
 Boggy Bore : ANS 1 Craft Formation []
 Fore Sixth : ANS 1 Craft Formation []
   Brag Hop : ANS 1 Craft Formation []
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
                 SGM-171 Tribble Container : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
SGM-H-216 Stairs With not Enough Head Room : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [11pts]

Mods required:

• https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3047591006
• https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3018223576

[misty storm]

144 stairs

[noble zodiac]

the DUBIOUS little CREATURE

[misty storm]

yub ship with its own scouts

insane

[noble zodiac]

(it is getting up to mischief)

THIRTY POINT SCOUTS

mein gott

[misty storm]

although the single fighter flights dont seem to path well

[noble zodiac]

that's cheaper than a probe

(the lil scouting microship from Aegir Fleet)

[misty storm]

40 points per

[noble zodiac]

and they go 200m/s

[misty storm]

since the body itself is 10 points

[noble zodiac]

absolutely deranged

[noble zodiac]

right

[glad aurora]

Is there any way to hotkey Remora launches so I don't need to keep doing them one at a time

[misty storm]

You can salvo launch them

Just hold alt and click multiple times

[wary flame]

Having dealt with this problem hitting shuttles with frontline tracks, I suggest command validated active radar

[rigid bison]

Frankly this just makes me hope to all that is holy that Mazer makes real SC unable to cap (and similar actions)

[wary flame]

CVAR doesn't get chaffed or active decoyed and as long as your ships and fighters have the track at all the validator will approve the much better track generated by the act seeker

[olive blade]

cmd val active is jammable and can't have decoys

its still good though

[noble zodiac]

on a torpedo?

you dont need decoys

[olive blade]

depends on the plan and specifics but yea usually not

[noble zodiac]

the plan here, given the context,

is "drop them at like 2km from the enemy's face with a bunch of fighters"

which might well be faster than the torpedoes

[wary flame]

It's better than wake val for close range torping, you can't reliably get rear arc there and on accept it's still a missile if your ship loses track

or more likely gets deleted

[misty storm]

Wait can strike craft cap things?

[glad aurora]

gentleperson's agreement not to have SC used as capping tools, ha

[noble zodiac]

no they literally cant

(source: i tried to during early testing. it didnt work, lmao)

[misty storm]

Ok that’s good

[misty storm]

The remoras don’t have radar unless you give them the radar mount right?

[glad aurora]

Yep

[misty storm]

Ok yeah

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'NG Wheel' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

 Sickle of Night : Skate []
Crown of Slander : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun Sensor PD]
        Sickle-A : ANS 9 Craft Formation []
        Sickle-B : ANS 9 Craft Formation []
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGT-360 Kaladanda Block II : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [13pts]

Mods required:

• https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3018223576

[glad aurora]

2km corkscrew cmd-only missiles, because you have two AWACS + bullseye/parallax vauxhall + 4x TC spyglass backing you up

at the moment the only thing that's really holding back this version is the inexplicable strike craft rubberbanding behavior, I think. Might be something wrong with the missiles still.

[wet root]

@wary flame How many Gs of turn rate do you find containers need nowadays?

[wary flame]

I very recently had to up the agi on mine, I haven't found a sweet spot yet

let me check what it's at now

currently at 7.4G acceleration, 1.6G turn rate

with relatively small warheads, 3800 to 4800 damage

[wet root]

Oh, those must be going faster than I have these ones set to

[wary flame]

235 to 240, standardised 20500m range

[wet root]

I can definitely bump up some speed then, I had these at 205, 24km but seems like that was overcautious

[wary flame]

24km range would be nice, but is generally not vital

unless you're really invested in striking hostile natural caps early on

my god OSP capfleets get lots of ships

I can fit two acaps, three rocket shuttles, four MMTs with full missile complement and a torp MN fully kitted out with DCX

[tulip vault]

It’s really nice, yeah

It’s made it so difficult to build pure cap fleets on ANS for me

Especially because of just how crazy good rockets are at slapping small ships

[wet root]

Today's discovery: You can have missiles with the same apparent name in the editor if you add whitespace to the end of their names. However, if you save a fleet that has this set up, it will (silently) strip the whitespace from the end, meaning you'll have a bunch of identical MissileTemplates in the .fleet file. Needless to say, loading that fleet will cause Problems

(Thankfully, it's not too hard to fix that manually in the xml)

[quiet quiver]

Alternatively, name them all different orderings of “pepper popper piper pupper”

Distinct combinations of common English words that you will mess up, especially spoken aloud

[olive blade]

spent a good while messing around with torps

a basic good softkill suite is annoyingly hard to beat for osp

[wet root]

I'm a big fan of gale torps on OSP, at torp ranges it's real hard to chaff them

And the short range also means you don't need many illums to break jamming

(My tugs run ACT[WAKE] instead but that's because I'm already overtaxed for micro on that fleet)

[olive blade]

I did some testing and you do need a decent few

illums

I found 3 struggled 4 comfortably beat 2 blankets

at ~3.8km

its not as clean as I was hoping tbh

[wet root]

Huh, against what target? Guess my success with them has been due to the illum jamming bug and/or the fact that I usually have a couple illums for redundancy plus better coverage

(And a shorter launch range)

[wary flame]

I see my team will have a wonderful game this time

[glad aurora]

What's the issue there, the EWR?

[wet root]

EWR takes power, power means small salvos

It might well have a normal radar as well, given the presence of PD

Though smaller salvos are probably more viable now that decoy count doesn't depend on salvo size

At least you can still get hits with them now, you're just going to do less damage

[wary flame]

EWR also costs lots of points and means it has to be in line of sight of the enemy to do anything with it, while emitting

throwing missiles at ELINT tracks labelled "early warning" is common anyway, this thing is no better protected against proper hybrids than an elint tug would be and far too expensive to risk

in the event, it sat perfectly still behind a rock on Tumbleweed missing container strikes on a beam battleship until it sailed around the corner and killed it before the ten minute mark

we still absolutely wrecked them because they had a solomon, two 2.5k S2H axfords and a beamstone squadron, and all their small ships were immediately eaten by my dedicated capfleet

[junior heron]

we love to see a beam battleship winning

[wary flame]

we killed everything on their team apart from one very lost beam destroyer and the beam BB, which went completely uncontested as it flew from point to point beaming the odd shuttle of mine and swearing as the MMT I had tailing it recapped anything it left within two minutes

[wet root]

The question is did you order a shuttle to orbit it at 6k

[wary flame]

I did not, although it did beam a couple of shuttles I was not properly watching

it was Tumbleweed, I'm not sure you can fly a 6k orbit anywhere on that map

[rigid bison]

True

[quiet quiver]

MMTs are multi-mission tugs, ye?

[wary flame]

yeah, which I need practice in using because I forget they have delicious jam

[wet root]

Huh, I hadn't realized how easy it is to fit 14 channels in a ConL now

One JRR and one PCC does it

[wary flame]

I currently use 12, since pumping the channels adds to damage more than pen now, but it's very doable

[wet root]

Clearly the decision should be based on how many decoy boxes per salvo you have

If you use 4 per salvo, bring 12 channels, so you can fit exactly 3 salvos of explosives in a rack. If you use 2 per, bring 14, so you get exactly 2 salvos per rack

[wary flame]

my current CLN is actually going dual seeker with a decoy module in each container, like old times

want to test it out since I get more shots that way

7 salvoes conventional, 2 salvoes mixed CMD, 16 rocket containers on the side

[wet root]

I should probably bring rocket containers, they're just so vulnerable to softkill though

And expensive while they're at it

[wary flame]

we are reaching new frontiers of beeftank MN technology

[quiet quiver]

Reactors and bridgemasters?

Are these each the toughest module for the size?

[wary flame]

yep

also only 10pts each

filling my ship with fusion bombs because they come with armour is very funny

[wet root]

Is the DT on the reactors really worth the crit chance?

I suppose if the rest of the ship is full of DCX and RDCs

[wary flame]

probably not I was just fucking around

more to the point they're not worth 40pts

[wet root]

Oh I'd thought this was seen in the wild lol

[tulip vault]

Civilian reactors have a lowish crit chance right?

[wet root]

I think it's the standard 5%

[tulip vault]

That’s not too bad

Still wouldn’t do that though lmao

[wary flame]

the curse of being 60pts over in a list, just too many to make it up with judicious ammo squeezing

[quiet quiver]

Buff module squeezing then?

[wary flame]

that or just tearing the jammer off my MMT, which is probably sensible

[quiet quiver]

Ah yeah the part you said you forget to use

[wet root]

Rock is best jammer, and rock is free

[junior heron]

not on abyssal

there the biggest rocks cost 2.5k+ points

[quiet quiver]

Pretty sure A) you can get cheaper BBs than that and B) BBs don't mask radars

[junior heron]

no but they mask shots

[quiet quiver]

That's not jamming!

[junior heron]

but it is a rock

[wet root]

BB is EWAR because people pay more attention to it than the other ships

[wary flame]

I like these missiles on a DD named Winnie The Pooh

[junior heron]

excellent

[quiet quiver]

<@&942093958551588904> Devlog time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_reZOXAd4U

[runic torrent]

omg

gonna save this for watching with till

[junior heron]

ooooooh

[glad aurora]

What's the sitrep?

[supple sonnet]

Space HR is now a thing for conquest mode

Also we would disagre with mazer on weth or not ships in neb can be an anonnymous swarm

[misty storm]

||I kinda wish in retreat phase on top of abandoning retreat you have an option to surrender and then the enemy captures your officers and ships and then your officers become POWs and you can try to get them back later instead of them getting destroyed||

||but id assume that wasnt in the original plan so whatever||

[junior heron]

pretty sure you could just evacuate, right?

[misty storm]

uh true

||idk if ship/officer capturing mechanics are/will be implemented tho||

[sharp crow]

space hr is extremely my shit

[bitter furnace]

in the concept document, it mentioned officer interrogation being one of the ways you can get intel on the opponent

so I assume there will be capture of officers eventually

[misty storm]

Ok

[wet root]

@wicked mirage @noble zodiac I have a sneaking suspicion one or both of you may have featured in this devlog

[noble zodiac]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/631889961163161612.webp?size=64&quality=lossless

im fairly certain that was pyrope

i wound up team captain in one test but i slept through the second session of that game and the second test pyrope was captain

amusingly, im pretty sure both of those games resulted in a RWBY logo on Team Atlas

[quiet quiver]

In addition to abandoned retreat, I suspect a portion of the loser's lifepods might end up recovered by the enemy

Also yeah it's funny that two very-prominent Neb players are both big RWBY fans to the point of RWBY-theming their fleets

Meanwhile yes the officer stuff is cool but I wanna see the logi boats

[wicked mirage]

hehe ^^ It was me since I the "captain" of my team during that test!

I got a new RWBY emblem btw!

Old vs New

[wet root]

My takeaway is that OSP can now stick an admiral in the Box of Nerds

[glad aurora]

... do war crimes add or subtract from your score?

[wet root]

Ooh, that's clean

[glad aurora]

The scoreboard does not say

[wicked mirage]

Subtract, war crime bad

[wet root]

Heavy penalties specifically to prevent people from shooting life pods

[wicked mirage]

yeah

[glad aurora]

I suppose that then leads to the question of "why would you want to"

because right now that's just wasting time and ammo

[wet root]

To kill officers

[wicked mirage]

If you really really want to kill a specific officer and don't mind getting hit the penalties to do so xD it's a trade off.

[wet root]

I am curious if shooting pods that haven't been identified counts

Since if so that gives incentive to bring intel and be a bit more careful when shooting unidentified tracks

Pods ID quickly, but not instantly

[glad aurora]

Interesting, since I don't think you can tell who's in what life pod - so you end up sitting someone with RPF around a corpse doing nothing on terminal interdiction and accruing a metric ton of war crime penalties for ????? reason

[wicked mirage]

Basically War Score represents things like PR and political clout, so it stands to reason that even if you don't know it's a lifepod destroying it still nets you penalties.

[wicked mirage]

I would imagine Intel will cover that eventually™️ though I cannot confirm or deny anything.

[wet root]

It's interesting that Task Forces are apparently any group of 4 or more ships