Baldur's Gate 3

[neon junco]

I miss Pillars of Eternity

[visual copper]

but Owlcat has also already said they don't really wanna do PF2 unfortunately

[neon junco]

Oh and Tyranny

[visual copper]

RIP to the Tyranny sequel we're never gonna get now

[neon junco]

Yea, doesn't help it ended on the biggest cliff hanger

[visual copper]

I have some hope that if Avowed did well, we might eventually get another PoE maybe

[neon junco]

I think for poe2 they overspent and didn't sell as much as they expected

[visual copper]

yeah

[simple spire]

I liked PoE1 a lot more than PoE2

Which just ... didn't hook me

[visual copper]

generally yes, me too

[neon junco]

Same

[visual copper]

which sucks, because 2 is mechanically way better

[simple spire]

Yes and no?

It's mechanically way cleaner

The rough edges and jank have been sanded off

But something to note is that PoE1 added rough edges and jank in during its patch cycle

(I was there, Gandalf, I was there 5,000 years ago when Josh Sawyer made PoE1 less clean on purpose)

[visual copper]

I do overall prefer the mechanics in 2

[neon junco]

PoE1 set high story standards and 2 didn't meet it or do better. Rpgs that live by story die by it

[simple spire]

Like, I think

I think going "all resources are per-fight"

Was a mistake

[neon junco]

My thing was there was not much limitation for resting, you could actually do it after every encounter

[simple spire]

You could absolutely game the system

[neon junco]

And fights were designed for attrition

[simple spire]

It was a hassle

And honestly having it be a hassle seemed like a perfectly reasonable solution to me

[rich plover]

I think they've clarified that they aren't actively working on a game, but they like (and play) pf2e

[simple spire]

Some players will always optimize away their enjoyment, but there's a balance to be struck between averting that for some players and retaining a stronger sense of identity for those who do engage with your game the way you want them to

[visual copper]

I have pretty much the opposite opinion, I think per fight is much better than rest based attrition

[simple spire]

It made spellcasters in particular feel much more bland to me

[visual copper]

the thing that turns me away from PoE 2 primarily is honestly just all the ship stuff

I don't care about sailing around on the map

[simple spire]

Yeeeeah

Story wasn't doing much for me either

[visual copper]

though I should replay PoE 2 sometime

and actually finish it this time

[simple spire]

I never got through it

I crowdfunded it

But

Ultimately I could not retain interest

Whereas I played PoE1 to completion on path of the damned both before and after the expansions

[pure steppe]

I got real confused at path of exile 2 having ship mechanics and now realize it's Pillars chat

[neon junco]

Its not even Pillars chat, this is bg3

[vague sedge]

Same energy

[visual copper]

I prefer per fight spells, because I don't need to worry about rationing out spells

just generally not a fan of that kind of spell attrition paradigm generally

[vague sedge]

My first Wrath of the Righteous playthrough was as a pure caster (Sorc) and I feel that pain.

It gets better later on once you get the mythic abilities that give you extra spell slots but holy shit the first two acts are pain

[visual copper]

I'll take less powerful spells if it means you can consistently use them

[neon junco]

Early game Cipher is a pain but late game its godly

[visual copper]

I do like Cipher for that reason too, yes

[neon junco]

Chanter the inverse, stronger than most classes early on but peters out to ok late game

I generally prefer the same scaling for all classes

[vague sedge]

That's basically how my WOTR Azata Sorcerer playthrough went. Early game it's so useless I had to download a mod to make cantrips stronger (not that much, just to give them D&D5e/PF2e style scaling) just to make the early game tolerable, late game I was nuking entire rooms with a single Chain Lightning cast.

[simple spire]

hellllllp i'm trapped in decision paralysis between Durge being some sort of fancy heavily-armored warrior-wizard with the giantslayer and Lae'zel being a fighter 11/hexblade 1 with the astral sword, and the reverse

[cedar thicket]

Try both out. Then Respec into the one you find most fun?

[soft tundra]

i really like heavy armor durge do it its a fun visual

[simple spire]

Both are going to have heavy armor and a very large sword, to be clear

[simple spire]

Look we get it she's evil but gods don't leave their petitioners

[charred niche]

Listen it's a Bad Domain to have ok, she's a ridiculous thing to even have worshippers

[safe jungle]

Yeah

To worship shar is an oxymoron

[charred niche]

At least some of the other cults seem like they're having a good time

Ms Nihilism is just rough stuff

[safe jungle]

Still probably a better outcome than being Bhall’s plaything

Unless they are into those sort of thing I guess

But then they wouldn’t be bhsll’s playthings

What a paradox

[neon junco]

Almost surprised to see this, Shar is super hungry for followers to one up Selune there's no way she'd leave someone devout hanging, saves the effort of having to trick them

But forgotten realms lore is a fuck between editions so I'm not surprised at inconsistencies

[safe jungle]

Maybe she just forgot

[neon junco]

She forgor herself

Very fitting

[gleaming pivot]

I mean, my first thought was "Oh, this is a propaganda piece"

[simple spire]

The issue is that a god's worshipers joining them is a fundamental part of their life cycle

[visual copper]

They need petitioners yeah

[simple spire]

It's not "oh Shar doesn't reward her followers in the afterlife"

That's not how the afterlife works

The role of a petitioner is to become a part of the godhead

[rich plover]

finishing up act 3 and Gortash not being immune to Hold Person really simplifies that fight, huh

[visual copper]

I was more afraid of those damned grenade launchers than I was of Gortash

[neon junco]

Although Shar and Selune are sort of special greater deities as ever since Ao created the first pantheon they will always exist like how mystra keeps dying and reincarnated so they dont need petitioners but still benefit from them

Orin too not immune to hold monster

Mrykul was the only to bother making their champion good in a fight

[grave prism]

if you're like my party you can simply ignore them and just kill Gortash without ever really getting near any of his traps

i don't quite remember what we did but i think we genuinely just walked into his without getting near any of the traps and just blitzed his ass

it was very funny, i don't think it's going to be quite as amusing this time around on account of us doing Honor mode this run as opposed to last run which was tactician

[rich plover]

we're on tactician. we've been in the negative difficulty curve since...end of act 2, I think?

[grave prism]

yeah

in tactician we did sort of break the difficulty curve around then also

[charred niche]

gortash deserves to be an easy bossfight

fuckin punkass

[grave prism]

by the time we got to Baldurs gate like, there was basically no difficulty

we fought (act 3 boss spoilers)||Ansur, and our Paladin did like 500-ish damage to him in one turn and we killed him that same turn||

same with (act 3 boss spoilers)||the myrkul champion fight||

ended up having sort of comical levels of damage by the end

[neon junco]

I had a paladin firs time i fought gortash and didnt realize he had an avatar transformation

[grave prism]

this time we're actually locking in even harder

[neon junco]

Similar with auntie ethel and skipping hair by barbian crit to kill

[grave prism]

i have decided that enemies aren't going to be allowed to hit with their attacks since that would get rather scary rather quick

not only am i doing a radiating orb build but i also have cosmic omen available as a circle of stars druid so i can just take a d6 worth of attack roll from any enemy on a reaction

it's quite funny cause the closest we've gotten to real danger so far was fighting gnolls in act 1

everything else has been more or less a cakewalk

We're taking it a bit more seriously this time

[rich plover]

That's a wrap on four player Baldur's Gate. Overall a fun time, but absolutely not the way the game was meant to be played.
I think my main takeaway is that it's almost definitely a better game if you don't try to 100% it in one go (and if you don't do four person co-op for your first playthrough, obvs)

[grave prism]

i've still only played it 4 player co-op

[simple spire]

I feel like if I were going to do 4-player co-op I'd want to do it with four origin characters

[grave prism]

i would never play as an origin character personally

[simple spire]

The gf and I are thinking of doing 2-player co-op with her as Wyll and me as Astarion

She'll take point on most stuff but I will pursue Karlach because Astarion/Karlach seems very funny to me

[rich plover]

I don't regret having it as an excuse to hang out with friends, but it kind of turned all of the dialogue into rifftrax. the origins don't get much development if you leave them in camp, which really undercuts their writing, and having people running off in random directions makes towns (and all of act 3) pretty confusing. (plus it can make time between turns really stack up, especially if your character is CC'd)

[grave prism]

fair enough

[rich plover]

the world's most flammable little lad

[grave prism]

and yeah you really don't get to interact with Origin characters much in 4 player

[simple spire]

It's a very different game without said interactions

[grave prism]

except maybe Lae´zel if you wanna romance her

i probably oughta try playing it solo at some point so i can interact with the origin characters

i don't really care about it all too much tho

[simple spire]

Like it's cool that Larian made the game a big tapestry for fucking around in co-op if people want to do that

But that's a totally different experience

[grave prism]

i had a grand time roleplaying and doing shit in 4 player

[simple spire]

Oh I believe it

It's just that so much of the game's content is in the companions

[rich plover]

that could be a big differentiator. the rest of my group wasn't interested in trying to do roleplay

[simple spire]

Not that there's a dearth of it without them

[grave prism]

ah

yeah

my entire group all did roleplay

and acted out every single decision based on how our characters would act

from the beginning to the end

i shed a tear at the end when ||one of our party members ended up sacrificing themselves to become a mindflayer to stop the Absolute, and then falling on their own sword so as to not live as a mindflayer||

[simple spire]

Yeah

Just a very different experience

More of a fairly on-the-rails D&D campaign to play in

Rather than a CRPG in the modern mold

[grave prism]

fair enough i guess

suppose i'll give it a try at some point

[simple spire]

Honestly really impressive that Larian managed to make those two things out of one game

[grave prism]

sounds like it

[simple spire]

I've started a solo playthrough with the mod that lets you have many people in the party + tactician enhanced automatic scaling for that

[grave prism]

oooh

yeah that sounds like a smart plan!

then you can interact with all of them at once

[simple spire]

(The scaling is gonna get really wild once I have 11 people in the party)

[grave prism]

absolutely

[simple spire]

(Significant numbers of additional actions and bonus actions for every enemy may outweigh the numbers significantly, we'll see!)

[grave prism]

me and the boys on our way to be a 15 person party

[neon junco]

I've played both solo and full party coop, the companions have a lot of exclusive scenes and options tied to them

I think an "ideal" experience if you want coop and Larian's writing is 2 player coop where each player recruits a companion

[simple spire]

So having played a bit of Tactician Enhanced with 7 party members so far

I don't think the game is strictly harder or easier but the difficulty definitely works differently

Large numbers of enemies and enemies with AoE stuff are dramatically tougher fights

Smaller numbers of powerful enemies are less of a threat

Of course since this game loves to throw hordes at the player

I suspect that's going to move towards harder as it goes along

But for instance getting ambushed by 5 goblins with magic arrows was more dangerous than the owlbear fight with honor mode rules

[safe jungle]

Yeah

The goblin ambush at the town

Was far more dangerous than owl bear

[simple spire]

Getting shot with six magic arrows in rapid succession does things to a man ;_;

Or a group of mans

[soft tundra]

i love lae'zel so much

[simple spire]

I don't think this is a githyanki thing

I think it's a her thing specifically

[visual copper]

she's just very dense yeah

[simple spire]

For me Lae'zel has "autistic girl who just really likes helicopters" vibes

Except instead of helicopters it's dragons

[charred niche]

Her being the youngest in the crew adds so much to her energy too

Starts off so imposing and in charge

And then she's just a Very Excited Newbie

[severe robin]

Lmao so true

[neon junco]

She really likes red dragons and will talk about vlakith but also a dozen red dragon rider facts

[neon junco]

It gives me like teenager vibes of "I'm smarter than you cause I get 100% in AP" but combat.
Yea sure great warrior laezel I believe you, how many other gith were in the party and how many of them were like centuries old fighters

Age is kind of messy with Astral plane but for a Gith like 19 is like youve barely existed

[safe jungle]

Doesn’t she have a specific fetish for red dragonborns

[neon junco]

I don't know the trigger but yea, either red dragonborn or red draconic sorcerer, I was both and got the line. She said some real suggestive red dragon facts to me in a way I did not hear before romancing her previously

The prompt was like [red dragon something] "you know I have red dragon ancestry"

[simple spire]

Having played a little more tactician enhanced with seven party members: this is pretty fun

[twin canyon]

my gf and I are currently running tactician advanced with literally every companion for the final fights. it's... absurd

[simple spire]

I'm still in Act 1 but my plan is to go there, yeah

Also: I'm finding that Booming Blade adds some interesting elements to gameplay

Forcing movement with command, cloud of knives, or flaming sphere has been very nice for triggering it

It just adds a lot of incentive to manipulate enemy movement beyond just "get my melees into range"

[dawn valley]

i saved the grove by i'm this close to go full evil with my durge

[simple spire]

So I gave Zarys the chest to purchase the Titanstring Bow, but then I wanted to kill her to get it back >_>

I discovered attacking her violated oath of the crown tho

After some fucking around, I found something weird: if you push her off a ledge, she takes damage from the fall, which does not seem to break your oath?

[rich plover]

"I didn't hit you, the ground hit you"

[vast crater]

Held true to the law of gravity

[simple spire]

She does go hostile, which is what I wanted

[simple spire]

Huuuuuh okay so throwing uses whatever you're still holding after the throw to determine what type of attack the throw is

Which apparently means if you throw your equipped weapon while wearing the electricity on unarmed attack gloves

You get lightning charges for throwing

[visual copper]

Huh

[neon junco]

Im not entirely surprised, there used to be issues with throwning weapons triggers for buffs cause if you didnt have returning weapom then it autoequips the first melee weapon in your inventory so at the time the weapon hits the enemy you were using something else for checks and triggers for buffs/damage

[rich plover]

oh. so that's got to be why tavern brawler applies to thrown, non-improvised weapons

[simple spire]

Naw Tavern Brawler applying to all thrown attacks is working exactly as written

And it will work even if you don't end up empty-handed after a throw

The text is "throw something"

So that would reasonably be universal

[grave prism]

having the worst time of my life in the shar dungeon

radiant retort 😭

[neon junco]

Oh yea the bane of radiant orb and paladins

[simple spire]

The good news is that you're also a cleric with a druid dip

Or wait

Druid with a cleric dip

Even better

Even if you sit back from radiant shenanigans for a bit you're, you know, still a full caster

[grave prism]

true

severe lack of cantrips tho 😔

i have bursting sinew, sacred flame and toll the dead

also posion spray, guidance, shillelagh and light but they are all, less useful

[simple spire]

Bursting Sinew's your only option there, yeah

[grave prism]

toll the dead is fine since it's necrotic

[simple spire]

Oh does it work on undead?

Nice

[grave prism]

oh wait

lmao

was that why they kept saving

[simple spire]

Necrotic doesn't always fail against undead

It's specific undead and specific spells

But you can always examine to double-check the resistances in any given case

I've been using Flaming Sphere a bunch with my light cleric on my current playthrough

Finding it to be surprisingly effective

[grave prism]

neat

[simple spire]

Honestly I really underestimated the power of a lot of spells on my first playthrough

Command fuckin' wrecks

For some reason I always thought of it as "that one spell you use to steal Commander Zhalk's sword"

Rather than as a spell that is useful in basically every fight

[visual copper]

Command is an action trade, and another extra downside

[simple spire]

Shutting down an enemy's actions and then triggering a ton of AoOs on their turn works out to a lot

Even better now that booming blade exists

Also it seems like it shuts down reactions? Including at least some legendary reactions?

And of course you can upcast it for more targetslolwut

Incredible that I did not consider this spell before

Oh @grave prism not positive but I think a lot of the enemies with radiant retort in the sanctuary are wearing metal armor? You could heat metal

[grave prism]

longstrider and enhance leap kinda goated ngl

[visual copper]

Longstrider is just free movespeed with ritual casting

it's neat

[grave prism]

i love being lowest in the turn order

[grave prism]

man i really picked Selûnite on the durge playthrough

[simple spire]

I'm also playing a selunite durge

But mine is a Sorcerer/Cleric/Paladin/Wizard

I'm finding it very funny to be tbh

Wizard is for Bladesinger that doesn't use bladesong

Storm Sorcerer 1/War Cleric 1/Crown Paladin 2/Bladesinger Wizard 8

[severe robin]

Does anyone have help for the game crashing when I try to load a save?

[vague sedge]

Have you tried loading any earlier saves?

You might have ended up with a corrupt save

[severe robin]

Loading an earlier save also crashed, but I updated my mods and tried that same earlier save and it worked

[vague sedge]

Ah, well that'll do it lol

[grave prism]

mods are kind of a voided warranty situation tbh

once you install them they are a caveat to literally any and all issues

[simple spire]

Oath of the Crown's conversation options are honestly kind of hilarious in a wholly unintended way

"I don't need a fuckin' warrant, I'm a paladin"

[storm sinew]

https://tenor.com/view/optimus-prime-transformers-freedom-is-the-right-of-all-sentient-beings-freedom-autobots-gif-12896324541119693940

type shit

[simple spire]

Pondering builds: sorcerer 1/tempest cleric 5/bladesinger 6

Maybe fighter 1 instead of sorcerer 1

Probably, even

Spirit Guardians, Con saves + bonuses from bladesong, full casting, uh

Probably have to choose between good wizard DCs and good spirit guardians DC

Probably war cleric instead of tempest

Or ... just do medium int and wis, focus on dex, and make up the difference with arcane acuity

[grave prism]

we pulling up on Myrkul

this shit is Pokémon now

[simple spire]

Nice

Summons good

[grave prism]

gang warfare

[simple spire]

hm, armour of landfall

[grave prism]

holy shit

we killed Avatar of Myrkul with nobody in the party taking damage

fucking outplayed

we were worrying about this being a run killer and we got out literally entiely unscathed

[simple spire]

Did you do Ketheric phase 1?

[grave prism]

phase 1?

[simple spire]

Uh, sory

The ketheric fight before Myrkul

[grave prism]

yeah

[simple spire]

I have found that sometimes doing that fight makes the myrkul fight easier

[grave prism]

we obliterated him in like 1 turn

[simple spire]

Because you have time to deal with adds and stuff

[simple spire]

It's tragic that bladesinging can't be used with staves :(

[grave prism]

rip Dame Aylin and Isobel

[simple spire]

They died?

[grave prism]

my party killed Isobel and couldn't kill Dame Aylin

[simple spire]

Oh, evil run?

[grave prism]

durge yeah

doesn't seem to have even done anything so that was pretty pointless

[simple spire]

Yeah you mostly lose out on stuff by destroying Last Light

The Very Evil Path in this game tends to be "you have opportunities to bring about catastrophic ruin and they are very stupid why did you do that"

[soft tundra]

it does make the game dramatically shorter!

[neon junco]

And you get the same XP

Good for speedrunning after youve played a bunch and want to skip some side quests

[grave prism]

We killed her after beating Avatar of Myrkul

[safe jungle]

But have you considered the pile of corpses

I love lime

That’s the genuine answer

Sceleritas gives when you ask him “why would I ever do such a thing”

And yeah at this point you aren’t doing this out of a prospect of a reward but because you just love murder

[neon junco]

Death domain cleric with bursting sinew

Fill your camp with corpses to raise as undead or explode

Dropping a corpse in your inventory is not an action

[rich plover]

Give Karlach a barrel full of monkeys corpses to throw

[severe robin]

Final Fight spoilers
||We lost the Owlbear Cub in the fight 😭||

||Shot by a magic missile then slapped by the dragon||}

[rich plover]

||tbh, "I drugged this baby animal so it went berserk and threw it into battle :)" had me going "WTF, Dammon"||

[visual copper]

||we also exploded the brain by blowing up every piece of explosives we've found the whole game next to it||

[severe robin]

We have the rat of holding mod, and I have been shoving every explosive into it

[neon junco]

||Also made it an adult somehow||

[rich plover]

||Potion of Puberty||

[visual copper]

there were so many explosions we lagged out the game for a while

[simple spire]

Here's a fun little thing: even if you're locked out of bladesong by your equipment, a bladesinger still gets their cool extra animations

So my heavy-armor bladesinger is swinging around his greatsword in a silly way

[visual copper]

The animations are pretty cool

[neon junco]

I do love bladesinger

Shadow blade and booming blade hits different

Hexblade multiclasses better and probably more damage but having full access to wizard spells so you can throw a fireball or something is great. Also if youre melee heavy then you basically always have +5 AC cause you can just shield every turn

Hexblade can shield but only 2 or 3 times at most. Bladesinger at level 5 I could throw out 2 3rd levels then shield 7 times with 1st & 2nd level slots without accounting for arcane recovery

If youre mostly meleeing then you probaby wont use those slots anyways

Also you get the ritual buffs without extra investments

[simple spire]

What I've been playing is a Sorcerer/Cleric/Paladin/Bladesinger (although I'm only level 6 so far)

But I think something like Fighter 1/Bladesinger 6/Cleric 5 could be rad

Spirit Guardians bullshit

[neon junco]

Oh im playing full bladesinger, it feels very safe

[simple spire]

I imagine

[neon junco]

Especially early game, mage armor, 16 dex , and bladesinging is 17 AC base but shield bumps it up to 22 AC without any extra magic items.

[simple spire]

I just don't see a ton of reason to take it past 8

[neon junco]

Wizard spells mostly

[simple spire]

Assuming you get those by multiclassing, I mean

As long as you get at least 3 more casting levels you're still getting 6ths

[neon junco]

I thought you only get the slots for fullcaster multiclass but not learn 5th and 6th level except via scroll scribing

[simple spire]

Yeah, but you can scribe the scrolls

You'll have plenty of them

[neon junco]

Huh looking at the list of unscribeable spells theres like 3

[simple spire]

What are they?

[neon junco]

At 5th and 6th, create undead, arcane gate, and resilient sphere.

[simple spire]

All pretty skippable IMO

[neon junco]

Id agree then about skipping 8+ those are spells i dont really ever use

[simple spire]

And the 10th-level bladesinger feature seems kinda eh

War cleric, bard, sorcerer, and paladin are all easy candidates

[neon junco]

Yea the only use case I see for it is if the bladesinger is one of the only Melee classes in your party which would be a bold move with wizard's HP.

I should think about 4 levels after 8 in another class

[simple spire]

Draconic sorcerer is nice since that's a free always-on mage armor you don't have to think about

[neon junco]

Paladin seems the obivois damage boost with many unused spell slots if I melee all the time

[simple spire]

I'm running Storm Sorcerer 1 (for con saves and shield + magic missile as always-prepped spells), War Cleric 1 (for the bonus action attack), and Crown Paladin 2 (for Righteous Clarity + Smite)

Something like sorcerer 3/whatever 1 could also be rad, since that would get you quicken spell

Maybe just Fighter 1 for the fighting style

[neon junco]

Oh right quicken for a spell after attacking would be good

[simple spire]

And lets you give band of the arcane scoundrel to someone more specialized

Swords bard 3 nets you a fighting style and some other miscellaneous adventuring stuff

Tempest cleric 2 is nice since you'll be getting chain lightning

Lots of options

I'd run a light/no-armor version but I specifically want to use the giantslayer

So I'm just there for Extra Attack

But arguably that's not a great play!

Lots of good finesse stuff

Phalar Aluve, notably

[neon junco]

Shadow Blade and booming blade means I wouldnt get to attack bonuses from magic weapons. Mostly on advantage cause of shadow blade in the dim areas.

I think im going wizard 6 then sorc 3 for quickened then im not sure on the rest. Wizard 8 and single class on something or sorc 4 for feat? I've never multiclassed a non warlock/sorc

Especially since bg3 does have stat requirements

[simple spire]

I think it's generally good to get at least 2 feats

[neon junco]

I'm not sure which feats would work well for essentially a short sword build

Or if I should just bump up dex/int

[simple spire]

Savage Attacker

Especially if you're doing upcast shadow blade

[simple spire]

Hmmmm Bladesinger 6/Lore Bard 6, or Bladesinger 2/Swords Bard 10

[neon junco]

What's are you planning with lore bard?

Especially the magical secrets I assume is the reason you're taking it

[simple spire]

Was thinking mainly of Spirit Guardians + tons of general bard utility

Oh, also, looking at it, there is a good reason to take Bladesinger to 9: that's when the bladesong bonuses increase to +4

Also: wtf https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/s/VU00mao1ei

[neon junco]

No way thats absolutely insane

But also what they list is doable, most of that is in the game already but its still an very impressive if the finish it

[neon junco]

Hm yea ah well that throws a small wrench in some things. I was thinking Wizard 6, Cold Draconic Sorc 4, Wizard 8 for quickened spells, fun distant metamagic booming blade, and armor of agathys if attacked by save or AoE

Id probably do Wizard 6, Sorc 3, Wizard 9 then to see things although ranger might have some neat stuff but thats lore bard 6 and i do want sorc 3 to use quick action like fireballs

Or double booming blade or twinned something

[visual copper]

does it not just go off prof bonus in general?

[simple spire]

Tragically no!

But +3 from bladesinger is still quite nice

You're only missing out on +1 AC and +1 on Con saving throws

And 1 Bladesong Power

It's +2 to start, +3 at 5th, and +4 at 9th

[visual copper]

how odd

[neon junco]

In 5e its based on int mod iirc

[simple spire]

Yeah

[neon junco]

Either prof or set values differ from ttrpg, which im curious about why

It makes bladesinger less reliant on int i guess if you want an gish build with lower int with multiclassing maybe?

[simple spire]

In some ways the greater gain at 9th is the extra charge, since it makes bladesong climax more usable

And bladesong climax seems pretty wild

[neon junco]

That is true, i pretty much dont use it unless battle is over for healing or i dont plan to melee anymore

[simple spire]

It seems fun alongside quicken spell abuse

[neon junco]

Yea benefits a lot from bonus action spells. The description is sort of deceiving since it doesnt accumate over the course of the bladesong but you need to cast a spell

[visual copper]

yes, which is why it was already weird that they changed it

[neon junco]

Specifically spells that are level 1 or above and are not weapon attacks, cantrip booming blade doesnt get you any. I dont think shield is giving any charges either

Im still early level on this coop campaign but battles where i only shield its only 1d6 on the bladesong climax

[simple spire]

Mm

The gf and I are finally getting under way for our co-op, and I gotta decide if I want to do Some Sort of Bladesinger Spirit Guardians Bullshit with Astarion or if it would be more fun to just do Wizard/Lore Bard with Gale

[neon junco]

Bladesinger i'd say is good for coming online very fast

[simple spire]

(I could do Wizard/Lore Bard with Astarion but would tragically suffer from this being the extremely rare case where being human is useful, for shield prof)

[neon junco]

Is your 2 options just Gale or Astarion or are other origins an option

[simple spire]

I'd like to do one of them

And the gf is doing Wyll

[neon junco]

Shart gets shields too

As a half elf

[simple spire]

Yeah

But the gf wants to romance her as Wyll so ;_;

[neon junco]

Oh

Are you doing a bladesinger wizard?

[simple spire]

Wouldn't be for the Gale build

[neon junco]

Ah ok

Ive been dual wielding early on cause no shield and bladesing

[simple spire]

The Astarion builds in consideration are bladesinger 2/swords 10, bladesinger 6/lore 6, and bladesinger 6/cleric 5/???

If I do bladesinger I want to do some kind of silly spirit guardians abuse

[simple spire]

Sorcerer 3/Wizard 1/Lore Bard 8 could also be amusing for Gale

[simple spire]

... okay fuck I think I've got it

Wizard 1/Nature Cleric 1/Sorcerer 4/Lore Bard 6 works for Astarion

(Or anybody)

[storm sinew]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQSt6tPrzek

[neon junco]

Is this an act 2 gale blow up speedrun or end of act 3 speedrun?

[storm sinew]

end of act 3

[neon junco]

Thats absolutely wild then

Im watching the speed run at x4 for act 3

||Jumping from a roof across the river to the top of gortash's keep is a wild tech thats so amazing, and clever mind flaying yourself to compensate for being weak going into final fight||

[simple spire]

Here's something cool: the damage from Elemental Weapon triggers the ring of elemental infusion

[dawn valley]

i need to finishe the game but i don't know ; what character(tav or Durge to play and who to romance)

[simple spire]

I like Lae'zel's romance for Tav/Durge

[soft tundra]

I'm a huge fan of Durge w/ Astarion and Durge w/ Minthara; I think Gale and Shadowheart's romances are really nice, and I find Wyll to be very romantic, outside of being handicapped by Larian's inability to give him any scene time

[simple spire]

Amusingly, if doing Karlach origin and romancing Gale, ||if he becomes a god he can just fix your heart||

[simple spire]

Hm, help me decide what to do with Astarion's last two levels, folks

Battlemaster 6/Thief 4, pretty standard two-weapon fighter with high dex etc

Fighter 8, Ranger 2, and Bladesinger 2 all seem relatively promising

[neon junco]

Evil Durge with Minthara is like, she can make you worse

[soft tundra]

i love Minthara because she starts evil, gets brainwashed-evil, unbrainwashed goes back to evil, and by the end of the game she is still evil, BUT she becomes a valued party member who can work w/ all these good people until the quest ends

[neon junco]

I appreciate she stays evil and doesnt do a 180

She just offers you take you back to menzoberranzan and do big murders and polilical stuff

[grave prism]

got markoheshkir, yay

honestly, Honor Mode has not felt that much more difficult, probably because my party is all running cracked builds, but idk this feels about on par with Tactician, just with less reckless playing and no party wipes

[vague sedge]

I'm glad they eventually made it so you can recruit her in a way that doesn't involve massacring a bunch of civilians and depriving yourself of a whole bunch of other companions.

Granted, it's in kind of a weird way that makes less and less sense the more you think about it but at least you can do it

[neon junco]

And if you steal her clothes she shows up to ketheric naked

Which implies she woke up and either crossed shadowlands or underdark naked

[tiny flint]

Nah they fixed that in an update

She gets her clothes and underwear back now

So she somehow found a new pair of drow clothes while not in the underdark

Which is somehow less realistic

[simple spire]

What do you think she only had one set of clothes

[neon junco]

The origins do have one set

[rich plover]

But we got kidnapped and trapped in a mollusc. Minthara's got a few routes into the underdark, she could send some minions on a quest for her preferred high thread count spider silk clothes

[simple spire]

Aye, and she was at base

Found some minor bullshit

Well, potentially major

If you scribe scrolls as a wizard, and you respec and go back into wizard, you keep those scribed spells at least if you multiclass back into wizard

Even if you could not normally scribe spells of that level given your caster level

[rich plover]

Scribing scrolls doesn't care about your wizard level, does it? I was scribing Unweave and stuff with just the one wizard level.

[simple spire]

Scribing scrolls only cares about your highest spell slot level

I mean I guess this doesn't matter

Since you still can't actually cast the spell

There might be some cheese related to arcane battery?

Or other stuff that skips spending a spell slot

I'll test it when I can

[soft tundra]

it makes sense to me

[grave prism]

i look like a fucking paladin godsdamn

absolutely crazy divine power

[simple spire]

Paladins can run pretty decent radiant builds, too, since smite is radiant

But yeah you look rad

[grave prism]

i'm a druid which is very funny

2 levels of cleric

funnily enough we're doing durge evil run

so i am the absolute worst Selûnite ever

[simple spire]

Pondering doing a stupid challenge run after my current one with the following rules:

• Tactician Enhanced, all settings maxed out
• Honour Mode ruleset
• Using hirelings to do 16 characters (the maximum) with adjustable party limit
• No two characters can share the same subclass
• Only four characters can have wizard or paladin (the only two classes with more than four subclasses)

This would require every subclass for every class but paladin and wizard get used

While not allowing heavy use of the really strong ones

No "half the party takes thief and/or hexblade"

Gearing would wind up being a big issue, I think

16 people is a lot of people to gear up

[neon junco]

Ive played coop with 6 people before, NPCs just go all in on throwing AoEs past a point it doesnt handle large parties well unless you mod the AI

[simple spire]

Oh I'm already playing with a party of 11 in my current playthrough

[neon junco]

That does give me an idea to do like nuzelock but I have one of each subclass

[simple spire]

With the scaling automatic harder large party preset for tactician

[simple spire]

Oh and 48 different subclasses must get used

Oh I guess cleric also has more than 4, so only 4 clerics too

[soft tundra]

that sounds like where the fun of the puzzle would be in this run

[simple spire]

I think so, yeah

Also in getting people down hallways

Something I've learned about huge groups is that you end up getting stuck behind other slower party members a bunch

Misty Step becomes even more godly than usual

[grave prism]

you cannot be serious 😭

i was forced to globe of invuln

[visual copper]

What the heck is that

[grave prism]

(Act 3 spoilers)||The Hellfire Steel Watcher Titan's Hellfire Missile attack||

||It's the honor mode version of the Steel Watcher Titan||

that is DIABOLICAL

||that was like 10 instances of it shooting out volleys of missiles||

[simple spire]

Holy shit

[grave prism]

ok i had to globe again it did that attack one more time

our barbarian petrified himself 💀

well that was fucking terrifying

we won

🙏

[neon junco]

Ironic the titan is so much harder than gortash's fight

[grave prism]

so much harder

also we accidentally pissed off the bank guards

so uh

i put on some Payday music

[neon junco]

I always fight them once i get into the backroom

I didnt know there were other options once you lie past the front besides stealth

[grave prism]

we forgot to show our uh

pass that we got

so they got angry

[neon junco]

6 looks like something my brother made

Almost exactly

It was on playthrough 2, where he made a daughter of his first character smulk, short for small hulk who did a romance scene with harlepp and we banned him from romance scenes as he always makes the ugliest character but since he canonically had sex he has a daughter that looks like him but with hair

[lament kiln]

I am guilty of 3

Including stealing Minthara's clothes

(She was dead at the time, this makes it okay)

[simple spire]

I did a dragonborn on my last playthrough but otherwise have not done these

[tiny flint]

I also made a Tiefling that stole Minthara’s clothes, but to be fair they absolutely served in them

[simple spire]

Just broke into Gortash's house and stole all his stuff without even meeting him

Also: Oath of the Crown has some really weird and arbitrary ways to break your oath

[simple spire]

I wonder if his adds get renewed for the proper fight with him, otherwise I destroyed all his backup >_>

[grave prism]

i love rolling worse on initiative than 4 giant rats

[rich plover]

look:
rats are fast

[grave prism]

nah

i'm just

abominably slow

i haven't gotten a single good turn of initiative in the entire campaign i think

[rich plover]

I took the gloves of dexterity and every initiative booster I could find (not sure if reliable talent applies in BG3, but if so...). Past act 1, I think the only time I didn't go in the first chunk was if I got surprised or otherwise CC'd

[grave prism]

i just take the L

[rich plover]

My friend's fighter was the same. Seemed to work out for him, since he just obliterated people by throwing junk at them

[grave prism]

i'm running radiant orb

so enemies don't get to hit me

i've got 19 ac so it's -10 to attack on top of having to hit on 19 ac

[neon junco]

Damn

Psychic blade?

[grave prism]

shadow blade

[neon junco]

Oh right i forgot its actual name

[grave prism]

steeped in bliss so all enemies are vulnerable to psychic

crit on an 18 😭

that poor bat got obliterated

[dawn valley]

does swarmkeeper and spore druid work together ?

[simple spire]

Yes

I'm runnning Spore Druid 6/Swarmkeeper 5 right now

I will say that I'm not overly impressed with Swarmkeeper so far

"This would be better with paladin" is definitely a thought I've had

[dawn valley]

i want to do my "coral druid" combo in BG3

blue dragonborn, swarmkeeper ranger (jellyfish) and reflavored spore druid

imma be a coral reef

[deft crypt]

feesh

[dawn valley]

yes

i mean coral is basacly the ocean mushroom right ?

(not at all)

[simple spire]

Other than being an animal, and a filter feeder, without a fruiting body, yes definitely :D

[dawn valley]

But they do be weird ass jellyfish

but what are mushroom really

[charred niche]

like a tree, but small, and a gnome lives in there

[safe jungle]

living decay

[simple spire]

Something something you cannot kill me in a way that matters

[dawn valley]

i also have the wild idea to multiclass a jellyfish swarmkeeper into storm cleric to wield the fury opf the sea

[simple spire]

That would work fine

Druid is nice for shillelagh

But Tempest Cleric 7/Ranger 5 will work great

Really Any Cleric 7/Any Extra Attack Class 5 will work great

Tragic lack of Destructive Wave tho D:

[dawn valley]

i just want to kill people with fish and stuff

[severe pine]

Gale stepped on a trap in the swamp and I decided to wait out the disease rather than go to camp

[dawn valley]

jelly fish aquired

[deft crypt]

@drowsy briar try here

[drowsy briar]

thank you

also hello you lot

[drowsy briar]

:)

[drowsy briar]

seems quite bad

[drowsy briar]

so how's everyone?

[austere hinge]

Hello! It is a little slow in here at times I'm afraid

[drowsy briar]

hello

[drowsy briar]

i am aware

[grave prism]

lost the turn order to one of my friends Ghouls 😭 (house of hope spoilers)

action vs. consequence

(i did not survive)

my friend said "do whatever AoE you had" and i just thought "say less" and exploded myself

[drowsy briar]

i have obtained scratch

aswell as several ogres with an IQ just below room temperature

[severe robin]

Wooo

[drowsy briar]

i just erased an entire species of spider

which is gigantic

and can teleport

[simple spire]

The gf and I are doing a co-op run with an increased party limit and tactician enhanced, and doing the big spider at level 3 was rough

I learned that if you use thrown weapons from a significant height they get way scarier

Due to falling damage

[visual copper]

yeah

[grave prism]

been doing honor mode unmodded with my friends

and it's been INCREDIBLY fun seeing all the fights we can just

fuck

completely

by doing something funny instead of just fighting normally

the closest we got to losing in the ENTIRE run so far

was fighting those Gnolls attacking the Zhentarim merchants in early act 1

no fight in the game was as harrowing and dangerous as those Gnolls

i think my favourite fight we just completely fucked up and didn't even try to engage with was the (late act 1 spoilers)||Grymforge golem fight||

[drowsy briar]

gnolls are semonic

demonic

they were made by yennoghu

[grave prism]

scary ass creatures

genuinely almost party wiped us, we had to have our rogue fucking leg it

we would have wiped otherwise

[drowsy briar]

yennoghu made them on accident

he once got summoned from the abyss

went on a rampage

[grave prism]

fought dragons less dangerous

[drowsy briar]

and the hyenas who ate the dead

became gnolls

[simple spire]

That gnome fight is brutal

[charred niche]

I do love BG3 but a good few of the fights do kind of feel like

You need Round 2 to get 'em right

[grave prism]

we're going to do the final fight of the game today

finally end out the run

i think this run was at least shorter than our previous one

that one took like 150 hours and i think like 6 months or some shit irl

[simple spire]

That’s my preference, really

The strength of vidya is it can hit you with challenges that require you to learn, innovate, and adjust

[grave prism]

i've had a lot of fun with Honor mode that i think i super duper wouldn't have had if i wasn't on my second run

glad that we didn't have it as an option when we started our playthrough

Tactician was great for just hopping into the game immediately and just sending it

[simple spire]

Agreed

Ironman for first runs is a very specific taste

[grave prism]

my friends infected me with their hard games mindset so we low-key might have done a Honor mode first run if it was in the game

[simple spire]

I have been playing with the Honor Mode rules but with multiple saves

Ironman is not for me

[grave prism]

fair

[grave prism]

put on some new armor and now i look evil as shit

[grave prism]

love abusing hirelings for profit and gain

[neon junco]

You mean withers

[grave prism]

Withers absolutely does not give an iota of a shit

he's big chilling no matter what

[neon junco]

Well he is the hirelings, he must be playing along cause he will still make the transmutation wizard transmute stuff to sell

And make potions

[simple spire]

If you’re playing Dark Urge the hireling voice lines include Durge lines

[grave prism]

we're doing a durge run actually

i'm

playing the worst ever Selûnite cleric

[neon junco]

I like to think its just Withers mocking you

As a way to mock a certain dead 3

[safe jungle]

there will be a world of light when your are done murdering shar

[grave prism]

ok so

TIL that ||getting to the netherbrain counts as a long rest so ALL OUR PREPARATIONS got wiped away :D||

||and it does't even count as a real long rest, fucking phenomenal, so i'm missing buffs as well||

we probably didn't think about it too much on our normal run

but it hurts so much on Honor Mode

we spent like 75 minutes doing preparations

[simple spire]

Ouch

[rich plover]

we ran into a bunch of that in the last stretch of act 3. not honor mode, so it was mostly just annoying, but lots of people losing buffs, falling out of wild shape, etc. for no clear reason

[grave prism]

well that was fucking abysmal

everything that could go wrong that didn't tpk us and end the run did

i got hit with harm and lost half my health the first enemy turn and so i've just been camping in globe of invulnerability the entire fight

my main action use so far has been aiding allies

[safe jungle]

they used a sixth level spell turn 1?

ouch

[grave prism]

we had at minimum 2 people dazed i think every turn

for all the combat we did so far

also ||Emperor got to 1hp at one point and almost croaked||

we summoned ||the Strange Ox who immediately got grappled and did literally nothing except tank damage for 95% of the combat so far, he's had one turn since we summoned him||

also apparently they can knock us out of the globes of invulnerability

so we've almost had dead party members from that

the only solace we have is that all the ||anti-players that the netherbrain summons used their action surge like, turn 2||

[safe jungle]

I think I just flesh to stoned one of them

[grave prism]

i have been spamming healing spells, help actions and globes the entire fight so far

so i haven't even gotten harm removed

because i don't have fucking lesser restoration active

and i can't fucking add it in combat

and ofc Greater restoration isn't actually an upgrade to lesser restoration like the name might imply and it doesn't help with that apparently

so i'm currently sitting at 47 hp for the final fight

which is low-key one-shot levels of health

one bad hit is going to kill me

so i have to play omega cowardly cause i'm both the healer and the one who has advantage on concentration for our globes

[safe jungle]

are you peeking out, casting spells, and running back in like a coward

[grave prism]

i'm not even peeking out

i think i've done literally a SINGLE attack the entire fight

like i said

i've been using my action every single turn almost to do help actions on my friends

[safe jungle]

oh dear

[grave prism]

or casting globe

i managed to do one single attack on a bonus action because someone needed to finish off an enemy that was right outside the globe and there was a small spot i could stand to do it

i've done like at most 20 damage this entire part of the fight so far

i'm going to have to go full dps when we get to the (ending spoilers)||Netherbrain attack segment, because we are going to need to dps it to death in like 2 turns or we lose, and i have like 3 scrolls of disintegrate to pop for it, but other than that i'm going to be cowering i think||

honestly not been like, very fun having to camp globe so we don't immediately get tpk'd on a bout of bad roll luck but it's this fight then we're done so

we have like 3 enemies left before the final segment if we're lucky

our session today ended on an abrupt crash

so we might have to redo a hard part of the fight

which is also just, really not fun

still mostly just mad that we lost literally all of our preparations

thankfully our ranger guy is running a crazy damage build and has an insane stockpile of 100's of different useful arrows

and our rogue is also running really great damage

so we've been making do

[grave prism]

Genuinely insane bm for an ironman run

Like i said earlier we spent like 75 mins preparing every spell, trinket and precaution we could

We all individually grabbed a hireling at max level for death ward and warding bond

Extremely lucky we had a spare vigilance potion so i didn't get obliterated for initiative

[grave prism]

guess who got disconnected from the run literally the second we won

i'm not getting the achievement for having done the durge ending

ok nevermind i managed to rejoin somehow

fucking hell

never again

[visual copper]

That's usually how clearing For Honor feels

[soft tundra]

that last stretch of gameplay is so much fun but soooo hairy

[grave prism]

it would have been more fun if we didn't get fucked over in various ways

[simple spire]

Signaling you’ll be doing the final boss fight and then doing a fakeout would be much more reasonable if it didn’t strip all of your bosses long-term buffs without replenishing your long-rest resources

[grave prism]

yeah

i was

[simple spire]

It’s schmuck bait in a game where that’s otherwise absent

[grave prism]

not particularly happy to lose all the buffs we spent like 75 minutes researching and preparing

[simple spire]

And it feels so weird that they nail you with it

[grave prism]

yeah

[simple spire]

So I’m doing a modded run of BG3 that extends the level max from 12 to 20, although spells (but not slots) still only go to 6th level (I could mod this too but I have chosen not to). This means level 20 builds, which opens up a lot of bullshit. I’m planning the party, and this is what I’ve got so far. Any thoughts on those question marks?

Wyll: Swords Bard 10/Paladin 2/Fighter (EK) 7/? 1
Shart: Sorcerer 1/Light Cleric 9/Stars Druid 10
Asta: Thief Rogue 4/Sorcerer 4/Bladesinger 9/? 3
Gale: Sorcerer 4/Bard 5-6/Evocation Wizard 10/Hexblade 0-1
Laezel: Hex Warlock 12/Paladin 6/? 2
Karlach: Monk 9/Fighter 2/Rogue 3/? 6

Or any other stuff

[sonic pollen]

pal 3 for wyll seems good for a subclass

[simple spire]

Paladin subclasses hit at level 1

Could just take fighter to 8 for the feat

[simple spire]

Hexblade on Gale loses magical secrets for the curse, which is a crazy enhancement to magic missiles against a single opponent

[simple spire]

Wait you meant the 3rd level subclass feature

It was very late when I replied to that

Might be worth it, some of those like Turn The Tide are quite strong

[rich plover]

Two players might be fine if you're okay swapping NPCs in and out of the party (read: periodically leveling them up and managing gear)? That said, while I don't think you'll get the same kind of character development by playing one of the companions, Tav's character development is entirely down to your own roleplay anyway. So I think playing an origin you jive with is probably ideal, but don't force yourself to do it if you prefer an OC

[desert axle]

tav? origin? sorry

[rich plover]

Ope, sorry. "Tav" is the default name for a custom PC, so people use it as a shorthand for not playing one of the premade characters. "Origins" comes from iirc Larian's Divinity games as a shorthand for one of those premade characters who you normally get as NPC companions

[grave prism]

Durge is good if you wanna do story stuff

Otherwise yeah Origin characters might be a good shout

[rich plover]

from what I've heard about Durge (Dark Origin), as long as you're okay with things leaning darker and one PC definitely being the main character*, it sounds like the best narrative option for your PC.

*whoever owns the save will end up as a semi-main character for a some cutscenes, but generally anyone can trigger dialogues and plot beats)

[simple spire]

I would play as plot/origin characters, yeah. Durge/Tav is imo really oriented towards a single-player playthrough.

FWIW, if you can't decide which ones to play, Gale can get a minor bonus and a bit of extra loot that he can't as a companion.

If you play Astarion, do not use the vampire bite in front of your companions until you get the scene where they find out.

Said scene won't occur if you do.

[desert axle]

[simple spire]

And imo Wyll, Gale, and Karlach are the most natural fits for the generic dialogue options that all players get

Although you can't play Wyll and Karlach as both player characters in a multiplayer run.

[fervent shore]

If I'm wanting to do like, heavy armor + mace and shield at the same time as storm magic, is Tempest Cleric the best fit for that?

[simple spire]

Yeah

Cleric 1/Sorcerer 11 would also be reasonable if you want more casting emphasis

It kinda depends on what you’d like to focus on

Like, Paladin/Sorcerer could also do it

[rich plover]

Tempest cleric is probably the best fit if you don't want to worry about multiclassing (but multiclassing is the path to unnatural power if you want to do the homework)

[simple spire]

My hot tip would be to go for staff + shield rather than mace but it doesn’t matter a ton

[rich plover]

(staff being good at juicing your spells)

[simple spire]

Personally, I’d do nature cleric 1/storm sorcerer 11

That way I can lean on shillelagh + booming blade if I want to

And then do, I dunno, War Caster and ASI Charisma for feats

War Caster has the extra flavor of shocking grasp AoOs

And advantage on concentration is great

But for simplicity? Tempest Cleric all the way.

(Tempest Cleric 2/Sorcerer 10 is also strong but it means you rely on a specific late game item for chain lightning 1/short rest)

(But you can get max damage on said lightning)

[dawn valley]

I'm trying honour mode. Is there any good Sporedruid build for it or should i run a death cleric or a necromancer ?

[simple spire]

Spore Druid can be quite strong but has more of a melee disposition

You could definitely do worse than ranger 5, Paladin 5, fighter 5, or thief rogue 3 + spore Druid the rest of the way

I’m not sure if shillelagh can override the charisma to attack of hexblade, but if so that’s another strong pick

Booming Blade is essential on a melee, which you could get from hexblade or eldritch knight if you’re not an elf

If you want to get 6th level slots, I still wouldn’t recommend taking Druid past 9 or maaaaaaybe 10 if you really want spreading spores

Something like Druid 9/cleric 2-3 nets you all the Druid spells that are really worth it plus command, which is the most powerful spell in the game and works with the band of the mystic scoundrel

Spore Druid does get an amazing piece of late-game gear

If you actually want to do minionmancy in any serious capacity I have far less input besides “probably Druid 9-11/cleric 1-3”

https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Armour_of_the_Sporekeeper But 1 round of partywide haste with no concentration as a bonus action is crazy good

3 rounds, if you play smart

[neon junco]

If you'd want to minion max probably spore druid 6 and necromancer wizard 6 but spore druid is plenty strong by itself, summons arent really targeted much anymore so being harder to kill isnt as much of a benefit as damage

[rich plover]

anti-shoutout to ||danse macabre|| for giving minions with a deathburst...that they aren't immune to...that you can't control directly. 90% of the time I managed to shepherd those things to a combat, the first one dying wiped out the whole crowd

[simple spire]

A lot of minions just don't have enough presence on the battlefield

BG3 kinda breaking bounded accuracy does that

[rich plover]

It's nice that they eat a hit or two and maybe do some chip damage. And as long as your party is mobile enough, there's some value in just throwing enough bodies on the field to gum up the works.

Tbh I mostly used those ones because the way they moved made them feel like creepy backup dancers to my bard

[golden grotto]

thinking about doing another baldur's gate playthrough

last time i did tief barbarian, idk what to do this time

and i ||freed orpheus and became a mind flayer, then killed myself||

||i resolved every companion's story (except minthara's 🥹 i didnt realise you could just not kill her) the best i could too||

[simple spire]

I like to ||let Orpheus become the mind flayer because the way it goes is very funny||

||Everybody like, "mmm, no, but, I don't wanna?"||

||Eventually Orpheus goes, "jebus fuck fine"||

[golden grotto]

i think i will do half orc paladin

[vague sedge]

Tbf the ability to spare ||Minthara|| on a good run was added later and isn't all that intuitive even now so I don't blame anybody for missing it

[simple spire]

The best thing with Minthara is that while she’s a bad person, she is exceptionally clear-headed on a number of topics, in particular the party’s other companions

If you ask her for her assessment of someone it may be mean (though not always) but it will definitely be right.

[safe jungle]

She does have very poor opinion on wizards

Although

Honestly not too inaccurate to my experience

[neon junco]

Misandrist, wizardist, and racist

I always bring Gale if I have Minthara

Lolth lost to an elf wizard rival once and she did not take it well as basically all Drow are wizardist

[safe jungle]

why do drow hate wizards again

[rich plover]

cleric supremacy, iirc?

Lolth stuff, basically

[neon junco]

Also her former husband, Corellon was a wizard

[simple spire]

Drow don’t really hate wizards, that’s just a Minthara thing

But honestly she has Gale’s number exactly

Her description of wizards is just Gale.

I was romancing her as Gale in my co-op playthrough with the gf

Because it’s funny

[soft tundra]

they hate sons and theres drow-lore on making first/secondborns be wizards / one of the only uses for a drow male is wizardry in noble houses

[grim nexus]

they also kill every son after the third, correct?

[neon junco]

According to Minthara

Minthara explaining Drow culture to Gale just so he understands the insult when she says you're like a 3rd son

[simple spire]

Drow hate all their kids, sons and daughters alike

They hate the sons in a different, more explicit way

But when your entire culture is premised around killing each other for Lolth’s shits and giggles, there’s not really a class of child who is exempt from murder.

[charred niche]

I'm always shocked Drow Society hasn't sort of collapsed Dark Souls style

[simple spire]

It’s essentially maintained by Lolth’s influence, and nothing else.

[desert axle]

a society so fucked up the divine consensus is "they should be studied under a microscope"

[simple spire]

Lolth is unusual in that she is notably both a god and a demon lord, and while this doesn't strictly make her worse than other evil gods it does guarantee that she's up their near the top of the list. She's also unusual in that she seems entirely driven by the desire for the lulz (LOLth) and her favorite joke is "dead drow", so she has set up drow society specifically to tell that joke over and over. And since devotion to a patron deity in D&D is aspirational, and the people in charge of drow society are her priestesses, it means their favorite joke is also "dead drow."

In her absence, this all falls apart. Not instantaneously, but a society really can't sustain this level of antipathy towards itself under normal circumstances.

There were some FR books about her disappearing for a bit, actually, and things did start to disintegrate. Then it turned out she was just busy and this was all a shaggy dog story.

Drow are really conceptually unfortunate in a number of ways but this is something I genuinely like about their setup.

[grave prism]

Reminds me of that one time i accidentally worshipped an evil god in WotR

Truly perception is everything

I don't think pr could help Lolth tho

Being a Demon Lord sets sort of a precedent

[simple spire]

There are evil gods and there are evil gods, yeah.

Like, also in FR, Malar is a chaotic evil god of the hunt whose priests are essential to a lot of rural communities.

They donate their catch in various big hunting rituals to help sustain those communities, they provide clerical help where it might otherwise be scarce, etc.

Malar sucks and is evil but he has some genuine appeal.

Myrkul in BG3 is somewhat flanderized, but his priests see to funerals and execute wills with unerring precision.

So you've got your Banes and your Lolths but you've also got your Malars and your Myrkuls among the ranks of the divine assholes.

[grave prism]

i accidentally worshipped an evil god in WotR

the game did great pr for said god by not mentioning anything bad in the descriptive blurb

[simple spire]

Oh like Lamashtu?

[grave prism]

specifically Lamashtu

[simple spire]

Yeah, she's uh

The worst

[grave prism]

i thought she was like, just like a god of change

she was touted as the god of the freaks and monsters

and i was like

[simple spire]

Like Lolth, there are some very unfortunate things about her presentation

[grave prism]

🏳️‍🌈 ?

but actually

it turns out

she's super satan

so

that was unfortunate

[simple spire]

My personal headcanon is that Lamashtu uses her status as god of outcasts to pull vulnerable people into the fold

[grave prism]

my chaotic neutral character who was aligned with the chaotic good azata ended up worshipping the super evil goddess of evil on accident

[grave prism]

i can say that it worked because it literally worked on me

[simple spire]

I treat her as the god of exploiting society's ills

[grave prism]

yeah that's pretty neat

but yeah idk i thought she was a cool goddess of change and she is very much the polar opposite

[simple spire]

But tbc that's sort of how I've chosen to read her, not necessarily her actual presentation, which is ... fraught.

Amusingly WotR is set prior to the emergence of the deity who probably would have been perfect for what you wanted, who is also a former demon lord

Nocticula, the Redeemer Queen

https://2e.aonprd.com/Deities.aspx?ID=355&Redirected=1

[grave prism]

she's in the game as a major character

[simple spire]

Yes

Hence why I thought you would appreciate the irony

[grave prism]

yeah

[simple spire]

And why I buried the lede a bit

[grave prism]

but yeah my dipshit ended up accidentally worshipping Lamashtu

[simple spire]

It happens, apparently!

[grave prism]

yup!

i picked better in BG3

my first character didn't really worship anyone

and my second worshipped Selûne!

unfortunately uh

my second one was teamed up with the uh

Dark

Urge

and we ended the world

so idk if we can really consider that a win

[simple spire]

Worshippers of Selune get some fun dialogue with shadowheart

My favorite good god these days is probably Ilmater, who has way more going on than it first appears.

[grave prism]

i did play basically as nice as i could while everyone else in the party were being murderhobo's

[simple spire]

A friend's description of Ilmater.

[grave prism]

that's fun

[simple spire]

They're also very active and make for natural adventurers.

[grave prism]

nice

[charred niche]

Ilmater feels like the most human of the gods

All they need is a little humbling

Beat up more of 'em

[simple spire]

He gets a lot of presentation as like ... quasi-Jesus

And he does have a layer of that but

Followers of Ilmater are not pacifists who just want to be martyred

They will happily kick evil's shit in, should it come to that

Sune is also extremely cool

Lathander is a frat boy

But like a nice one

Of the gods that show up in BG3's narrative, lemme think

Shar is really pretty awful but usually a little more subtle than in BG3.

Myrkul is pretty flattened considering the role he has in society.

Bhaal ... is, in fact, just like that. Huge idiot. Likes making corpses.

Bane would like to cast himself as a god of order and civilization but nobody's falling for it, he's mostly just a dick.

Silvanus is pretty on-point, he's the god of wild nature. He's not without his benevolence but like. Sometimes a bear just eats a person, that's the way of the world.

Selune is oddly absent from the narrative except as opposition to Shar, so I feel there's not much to say.

The monastery of Ilmater is fine, although like most iterations of the god in CRPG stuff it feels like it's not hardcore enough to me.

I think that's basically it. Does anybody else show up in a meaningful way?

[soft tundra]

Mystra

[charred niche]

I mean Mystra- ye

[soft tundra]

one of the Mystras anyways

[simple spire]

Oh Mystra!

[charred niche]

Mostly to tell Gale off but that's fine she's busy

[simple spire]

I guess I don't really have a good sense for Mystra aside from the fact that she is, in fact, a big sex pervert who will sleep with her chosen.

So her sleeping with Gale is entirely on brand.

[charred niche]

Someone who doesn't want idiots casting level 10 spells again

[soft tundra]

Mystra is actually pretty neat historically

being a genuine human-becoming-god and all that

[simple spire]

Yeah, I just mean personality-wise

I know the lore acceptably well

Used to be pals with Kelemvor

[soft tundra]

oh yeah who knows with god personalities sometimes haha really comes down to the whims of the writer

[simple spire]

This probably does something to explain the awkward vibe between Elminster and Gale

[charred niche]

I'll admit I'm not exactly on Gale's side with the arguement

[simple spire]

I kinda agree with Lae'zel's assessment that Mystra was (these are not her words but this is what she means) emotionally neglectful and irresponsible in her treatment of Gale.

Someone much younger and less powerful than her, as well as less experienced both in life and in romance.

Gale of course played with the orb on his own, but ...

[charred niche]

Oh I'm not saying she was great about it or anything but just really, Gale, the most wizardly cliche, But I'm Built Different, surely you'd read about Karsus, surely

The few levels of fighter are what keep Elminster relatively grounded enough to not erase himself from time or whatever

[neon junco]

Elminster was like Gale but he learned to not be after a few decades

Iirc Elminster at this point is reaching the thousands

[simple spire]

Eliminster went through a lot of weird stuff and did some extremely extensive living in a way Gale never did

And probably benefitted a lot from having a much greater degree of independence from Mystra

[neon junco]

Gale is very very young in comparison, he's basically a few years out from Mystra's tutelage and spent most of the time in his tower

He is quite sheltered when we find him and the independence is rather recent on the account of him doing what Mystra said not to and getting a Karsus orb in his chest

[grave prism]

bozo ass move

[simple spire]

Yeah, Elminster had a relatively normal youth and young adulthood

In terms of his social relations and whatnot

This does not seem to have been the case for Gale.

The closest thing he had to a friend of his own seems to have been a talking, flying cat.

[neon junco]

Mystra did basically groom him since he was a kid

[simple spire]

Yep

It’s a bad scene

Gale himself doesn’t seem to understand how bad

Lae’zel kinda does, in her very weird way

[neon junco]

The thing is Laezel does but she's also really young for a gith and everyone says otherwise to dissaude her

We're like the only nongith she really ever talks to

[simple spire]

Her comment is something to the effect of “it’s clear that Mystra never believed in him in the first place,” which says a lot coming from her.

[neon junco]

No one called out Gale's situation or probably mentioned it, Elminster was waaay too chill about it probably cause he's the champion of Mystra

[simple spire]

Yeah, I think part of why Lae’zel gets it is that her own story has similarities to Gale’s (which, ironically, she probably would not identify for quite a while)

[neon junco]

Its also fairly similar to Sharts

On account of her constant mind wipes

[simple spire]

Yeah, a lot of social isolation

[neon junco]

I think like Minthara, Halsin, and Wyll are the only companions with a life of agency and being to do what they want before the plot

Well maybe not Wyll fully post pact, but pre pact he didnt really have much holding him back from doing whatever

[simple spire]

Yeah, Minthara’s interesting because she’s not a bundle of trauma from authority figures of her youth

And she can see those situations very clearly because of it

[neon junco]

She basically was all in on Drow ideology voluntarily and still is at the end

[simple spire]

Kinda. Splitting from Lolth is a big deal

She’s much less in it for the evulz

She’s very … pragmatic, in her villainy.

[neon junco]

She wants the power and invites you to help her

[grim nexus]

"They should let in the refugees so they can exploit them for labor" is...

I guess better than "let them die"?

[neon junco]

Just now her view on other races went from "completely inferior beings all of them" to "mostly inferior beings but you're one of the good ones"

[grim nexus]

I think? idk man

[simple spire]

Yeah, I don’t want to cast her as not horrid

[neon junco]

Also she wants power moreso for herself than worship to lolth

[simple spire]

But she’s interesting by contrast

[neon junco]

She hates gods now*

[simple spire]

Kind of a strange drow in general

[neon junco]

Yea most Drow do the thing to please Lolth not thinking if Lolth depises them too

[simple spire]

And she has emotional depth beyond said villainy, as evidenced by her commentary on Lae’zel and Karlach

[neon junco]

Minthara's experience with the Absolute broke her view of deities

[safe jungle]

does lolth like spiders

[simple spire]

Minthara is more ‘I only care about myself and those closest to me, and I want power for myself and those closest to me, and I’ll do whatever it takes to achieve it.’

[safe jungle]

but what if I want power for myself but not for those closest to me

[grim nexus]

iirc the first ending I got in BG3 was where I used the absolute's power to rule over Faerun as the dark urge with Minthara by my side

[simple spire]

She’s not a broken person, just a very nasty one.

[safe jungle]

ah but you forget that love, friendship, and loyalty are non-murderous urges

and should be abandoned before your ascent to the absolute

[neon junco]

Minthara is also the only companion that isn't reviled by the slayer form

[safe jungle]

i love that that's the rationale you can use to get your servant to accept his obliteration

[neon junco]

In fact she kind of seems too into it

[safe jungle]

he's like "...Really? You... see me as a friend??? Well... then I suppose it cannot be helped...."

[neon junco]

Woman who got disillusioned with Absolute and Lolth now saying yes give into Baal for more power

[safe jungle]

i feel like

ba'al is if anything worse than lolth

ba'al's favorite punchline is DEATH

[simple spire]

Bhaal is just sorta completely terrible

In a very straightforward way

[safe jungle]

if two guys walked into a bar and immediately died he's find it funny

[simple spire]

The thing is that Bhaal is bad at this

As gods go, he is an incompetent

[neon junco]

I find it funny cause she goes into a speech about how you shouldnt do things for gods that just see you as tools and get power for your own needs instead. Then she says do what Bhaal says to get stronger slayer form

[visual copper]

All three of them kinda are, but Bhaal especially yeah

[simple spire]

Myrkul is normally competent

BG3 does him dirty

[neon junco]

I dont think the average forgotten realms person knows the dead 3 are clowns of a god

[visual copper]

I suppose my other main impression of Myrkul is from Mask of the Betrayer 😛

And generally him being an asshole

[safe jungle]

doesn't he appear at funerals or smth just to mess with people

[simple spire]

He’s a clever brute but he doesn’t really understand how to do things like a god.

[simple spire]

Yep!

[visual copper]

But I guess he was the death god for a while and didn't do the worst job

[safe jungle]

and bhaal just likes stabbing people

[simple spire]

Shows himself briefly as a reminder that he’ll get everyone sooner or later.

Myrkul’s priests also officiate funerals and contracts, and execute wills.

He is the only one of the Dead Three who can function in polite society.

[safe jungle]

i don't understand why death priests can summon undead tbh

shouldn't death magic result in death

not undeath

shouldn't it just kill people

[simple spire]

Yeah I dunno, depends on the god