She's actually a bunch of snakes woven together into a humanoid form, but because she's a Creature of Delirium and has Many-Faced, it's actually quite difficult to tell she's a bunch of snakes, at least until a relevant PC picks up the correct issue and her sunglasses slip and you notice that her eyes are serpentine and slitted and also not the same size as each other.
#Jenna Moran Games (Nobilis, Chuubo's, Glitch, WTF)
obsidian dagger
She'd probably scoff at them? Dissociation would probably be too brief to trigger her making them into a vessel, especially since they have to be asleep. And dissociation is less what I imagined, anyway. Like, if she extracts your prism of self-image... you still know your name, and physical qualities about yourself, and all that. But you don't know what kind of a person you are. Someone says "you're acting unusually" and you go "am I?" because you don't know what it means to act how you usually do.
You don't know what kinds of things you tend to like or dislike or be passionate about. You don't know what you consider to be important.
Which has the nice side effect of implying certain things about the Haunted Child, if she's persistently appearing in their dreams.
Note that your self-image does not have to be accurate to stop you from becoming her vessel in dreams. Also, that she would probably describe what she's extracting from people as "self-deception", even though "self-image" is probably more accurate.
Also, when she extracts your self-image, she can allow all the parts of yourself that aren't part of your self-image — everything about you that you don't want to look at — to take over, turning you into a monster. And I have clear ideas for what some of the PCs would turn into.
I'm trying to find a specific reference image for Leonardo's in particular and failing... there's a bunch of things that are almost what I'm envisioning but none that quite fit right.
||You know those "biblically accurate angel" images which are basically just a ball of wings? That, but dripping with blood and licked with tongues of flame.||
kinda like this (warning: eyes)
Jasper, meanwhile, gets turned into a tall, pale, looming thing, which brings emptiness and despair — just like her dear father. (Although there's also a strong argument for turning her into something solar instead, if she's very Not Okay with that.)
narrow tartan
She'd probably scoff at them? Dissociation would probably be too brief to trigg...
Thing is with dissasociation you can end up. Feeling really unclear on that. I spent a few hours a couple of weeks ago thinking I didnt exist
obsidian dagger
That's fair. You'd probably become her vessel if you fell asleep while disassociating like that.
narrow tartan
Huh. It's interesting how she makes people into vessels when you sleep and dont know who you are? I lost track of that detail
obsidian dagger
Creature of Delirium automatically vassalizes anyone who performs a certain action while devoid of your Experience (or, occasionally, while overflowing with your experience), and her action is "sleeping".
Or "dreaming" more precisely.
narrow tartan
It could interact weirdly with antimood
obsidian dagger
I... don't think it would? If you're talking about Jasper's, I mean.
obsidian dagger
It could, but I doubt Jasper's would? You turn into an exaggerated caricature of the parts of yourself that you don't want to look at and which you want to say aren't really you. ...which is usually going to make you dysphoric, for what it's worth.
You can have hope and ignore parts of yourself, and have despair and ignore those same parts of yourself. For some individuals I could see it sort of skewing which direction things go for the transformation, but... like, for Jasper, in terms of solar versus Bleak transformation, I feel like it's more likely to transform her into whichever mode is opposite her current Mood.
narrow tartan
Yeah. Thats sort of the direction i was thinking
obsidian dagger
Alright, fair enough. I just meant it wouldn't change anything for anyone around Jasper, even though Mood usually has a radiative effect.
obsidian dagger
I do not know which song is Creature of Delirium, but I would not be surprised if it was a They Might Be Giants song.
magic mason
I do not know which song is Creature of Delirium, but I would not be surprised i...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3PuMk6e24I8
maybe a bit too evil, but I do like this one and the chorus is good for CoD
So give me your fire
give me your fear
give me your faith when love gives you tears
Give me your heart
give me your fate
give me your hand when love gives you hate
Give me your prayers up on your feet
and I'll give you a show it helps fill the seats
So give me your sins give me your lies but whisper your love
And I'll whisper mine
obsidian dagger
I'll give it a listen at some point, but can't right this moment.
narrow tartan
My fallen angel OC probably defends bad anime
vivid wraith
🤝
restive ridge
The Fallen of Diddygatari Aah Media
vivid wraith
fallen really are the "he was there for me during a really hard time and you gotta respect that" imperator huh
candid compass
That's literally their thing yeah
obsidian dagger
Like, what arcs does the character have? I'm tempted to say Creature of Fable or maybe Allegory, if any Miraculous arcs at all... but it's been a long time since I looked into the games.
narrow tartan
Yeah. Just thinking that the Pain Elemental is kind of true god coded.
obsidian dagger
Chzo is arguably true god coded, yes. I could also see arguments for a Warmain or maybe even a Deceiver. Because... people worship it, and it makes people worship it, but it's very much like a true god in that it's barely even a person. It's just an amoebic entity.
I could even see an argument for an Actual, now that I think about it. But it's been too long and I only half-remember important details.
vivid wraith
hmmmmm
Kuroma Yatskiy as a Chuubo's/froofs PC on a Primordial arc, growing into King Death. kinda like the Old-Timer except for ways it's not
what does an iaijutsu duel with a folding chair look like
frank light
Lmao
vivid wraith
hmmmmm
Kuroma Yatskiy as a Chuubo's/froofs PC on a Primordial arc, growing into ...
unfortunately i cannot reorder Rinley the Navigator's quests for all of King Death's arcs, just half of them
arguably the more important half, for a Primordial arc
but still
Magician and Old-Timer are the only ones with full compatibility. old-timer definitely feels wrong, Magician... maybe, but I'm not loving it yet
vivid wraith
magician quest set might work after all. it gets you a very broody Kuroma, but, y'know, a boy can brood. It's allowed
narrow tartan
The cityback is almost certainly a reference to the young wizards books
Or at least is one of tne inspirations
obsidian dagger
I have somehow just now learned that “Eide” probably shares a linguistic origin with “oath”.
frank light
yeah
scarlet talon
I have somehow just now learned that “Eide” probably shares a linguistic origin ...
Ooh, do tell?
obsidian dagger
the word ‘oath’ comes to us by way of Old English āþ (pronounced ‘ath’ with a long ‘a’) and has close cousins in Dutch ‘Eed’ and German ‘Eid.’
So I’m assuming “Eide” is also related.
Plus it makes sense for a Blue arc, which… Eide is, correct? I only know the Chuubo’s names offhand.
candid compass
Eide is Frantic Silver
vivid wraith
Strategist that's the anthropomorphization of a canceled game console. Is this anything
fleet harbor
Oh god Neptunia
narrow tartan
I still love. Airplane deceiver idea. Who. Really doesnt like people
obsidian dagger
I was trying to figure out which GMD protag was worst at cooking and I think, regrettably, it is probably Rinley.
vestal mist
Not Leo?
obsidian dagger
I thought that, too! But then I remembered that he made an elaborate gingerbread heaven for gingerbread men, and while I can't fully remember the details for that invention, I think it implies he at least knows how to bake gingerbread (which seems non-trivial)...
...I was going to ask who makes his food if he doesn't do it himself, but... Alvin RIMM.
vestal mist
He does have
Domesticity -1
obsidian dagger
Who may have also provided the gingerbread, actually. So it's once again unclear.
okay, yeah, I forgot that. I thought he was like... surprisingly capable of baking, but that's probably just Alvin.
obsidian dagger
Best is obviously Natalia but second-best is a more interesting question and I think it's probably Seizhi, actually. Especially if they find themself in a professional kitchen (where they will likely find themself getting pulled onto the line just by force of inertia and someone asking why they're not at their station before recognizing that they just wandered in).
obsidian dagger
It is embarrassing for Principal Entropy that he’s the only adult but might not even be in the top half (I think Chuubo is 3rd and he’s 4th but I’m not even sure and could see Miramie taking his spot).
vestal mist
Best cook != most practical cook
narrow tartan
Principal entropy uses changeblood as an ingredient
It works better than you would think
fleet harbor
Of the core GMD cast, Rinley is tragically the one I find least captures my attention.
frank light
I think once I read their thing I got way more into them
A complicated and possibly even forbidden friendship with a rat prince, probably going to be possessed by hedge the fang(it just seems like the sort of thing to happen to them), and a goofball who keeps meeting
The Horrors
obsidian dagger
I think it’s important to remember that at least some of their goofiness is affected.
obsidian dagger
I was trying to think about what kind of quest or arc would involve bearing witness to a death, and... I think Black. It seems like a very Black thing to watch someone die (possibly in dreams or memories, but possibly not).
(I was thinking about Ancient Magus' Bride again)
vestal mist
Blue
"I just wanted to see what would happen"
Leo, you just exsangiunated 3 people in less than a minute
obsidian dagger
No, in what I'm imagining, this person is usually not actually involved in the death. They're just... bearing witness to it. Being with someone, at the end.
obsidian dagger
It can also be something spiritually similar to a death, or very close. And I increasingly think Black, in part because Chise (from AMB) bears witness to a lot of deaths but also a lot of spiritual transformations that are a lot like deaths, and sometimes even sort of plays psychopomp, and that feels especially Black.
frank light
Black, silver, and gold surprisingly
obsidian dagger
I could see silver. I'm definitely surprised by gold.
frank light
Gold 1 is about muddling through stuff but that can easily be about grief and death
And gold 5 is about being lost in the dark
Heck, Natalia’s quest 5 is almost always about dealing with grief and death
obsidian dagger
Fair. I think Gold is more likely to be about a death of someone important to you, though. Whereas Chise, like... she stumbles upon a very, very old dragon, and sits with it in its last minutes, and lets it relive a memory of flying. She had never met that dragon before, and in fact only recently learned dragons existed.
frank light
Maybe!
obsidian dagger
That's Black. It's a spiritually transcendent moment. (I don't think she's necessarily taking Black arcs per se, though?)
obsidian dagger
You could.
frank light
Though you clearly have a specific vision in mind for walking and dealing with death
So black works
obsidian dagger
Gold is an answer to the question I asked using words, but not quite an answer to the question I was thinking. But it was a good answer and I do appreciate it.
obsidian dagger
I actually have an interesting Gold quest set I made once, which might be trying to do too many things at once.
frank light
Mhm
obsidian dagger
I can share it (although I have shared it here before) in a little bit, if you're interested.
frank light
Perhaps!!
obsidian dagger
The whole arc assumes that the PC taking it is training one specific thing, which I referred to as their Gift. Usually this is going to be a Superior or Magical Skill, but it certainly doesn't have to be; I came up with a version of it where the Gift in question is "playing Clickable Rune Gods". Sometimes it's going to be a Hack, but, well, Reality Syndrome is Gold, so that works. But it doesn't really work for characters like Natalia who spend time generically Training™ without a clear focus on what they're learning, unless they're willing to take an arc focusing on one thing in particular.
In the first quest Autodidact's Lament, as with all Gold 1 quests, you're stuck. In particular, as the name implies, you're stuck because you've figured out as much as you can on your own, and you can't find anyone around who knows more than you.
Should I post the full version of the quest with all the XP option ideas I came up with, or just a general summary of the high notes?
narrow tartan
Listening to a video. About Jenna Games. The person summed up Chuubos lore as,
"Joseph Stalin invaded Gensyoko and then the actual Sun showed up and then died but then everything was okay"
obsidian dagger
Would you rather I:
- Post the full version of each quest in the arc, with all the ideas for XP actions (note that they need to be trimmed a bit)
- Summarize each quest
- Go through what each quest might hypothetically look like with a Gift of your choice
- Not flood the chat
vestal mist
2 first, then 1 if we want
obsidian dagger
(bumped enter too early)
Autodidact's Lament is mostly about... you've learnt as much about your Gift as you can on your own, and you're feeling that limitation. You're trying new stuff, but you're not learning from it. You're reading advice other people wrote down and listening to tips from friends, and (depending on how much you already know) maybe you're trying those things out and maybe you're not, but it's clear they're just not helpful because the people trying to help you just fundamentally do not know what they're talking about. People give you praise for success when you've failed. There's a growing gap in understanding, and it's driving you batty searching for someone or something that can help.
Quest 2, Voice of Experience, is about finding that someone. You've met someone new, who knows much more about your Gift than you do, and who just effortlessly Gets It in a way nobody else has. This person might take on a surrogate parental role to your character, or even secretly be your long-lost parent; either way, they're able and willing to help you... and they aren't alone. They're part of some organization or program or location or club or something where everybody there has your Gift or a close facsimile (or the same general kind of thing, possibly), and they want you to join.
Quest 3, Where They Understand You, is about this new place. And... like, it's great, right? You don't have to worry about accidentally injuring people or causing property damage or hurting someone's feelings because of your Gift. All the resources you need are available. Everybody in this new place is friendly (for the most part), even if the social obligations of this new place can be a bit awkward or confusing. But, also, you're sort of split between this new place and all your old friends. I get the impression that commuting between this new location and your old home isn't impossible, so you can still participate in other people's quests, but... it's awkward and impractical to travel back and forth and back and forth, or, the people in this new group operate on a nocturnal schedule and so you're always sleep-deprived when you try to do the night stuff and regular activities during the day. It's increasingly exhausting trying to split yourself between both worlds, and eventually, you have to decide what you're doing.
If that decision doesn't end the arc, or if you get coerced into staying in this new group when you shouldn't, or if you try to leave but can't... quest 4 is A Tarnished Cage. Where... this place is awesome, but it isn't good for you. The people here might be evil, or just unscrupulous. You're learning to do things with your Gift that you wish you didn't know how to do — techniques that are evil or cruel or unethical or just kind of dickish. And, even despite all that, they're saying that this place is your home, and this is where you belong. You're starting to hope they're wrong.
Finally, if wrestling with these split allegiances doesn't end the arc, quest 5 is They Will Send Out Dogs.
You've left this new home, finally. Maybe it was polite, or maybe you took off in the middle of the night without telling anyone, but you're gone. But now you've abandoned a place that was like a home to you, and are trying to return to an old place you had previously cast aside. You have neither the comforts of your old home nor of your new one, now. You're lost in the dark, as once-familiar places seem strange. And your old mentor from quest 2 still wants you to go back to the place you ran away from, and is trying to convince you — or, failing that, to force you — to go back there.
What do people think?
That order should work for both Gold and (probably) Orange. I also considered a Silver version that was something like WTUY/ATC/TWSOD/AL/VoE (3/4/5/1/2) where it rebrackets the whole thing to start with you in a location that understands your powers but doesn't understand you as a person, then gradually you get disillusioned, run away, and finally struggle with being in a healthier but more "normal" place before eventually finding someone who understands and accepts you but isn't evil?
I think I briefly even considered 4/5/1/2/3 for Silver.
narrow tartan
Noble who is a ficticious depiction of an Imperator
vivid wraith
Not their own imperator. a different one
frank light
serpent who really liked some fanfiction about a gamelord
narrow tartan
What. Kind of arc would someone be on if
- they are uncovering a mysterious backstory. And there is always another layer
Or
- Have a traumatic backstory that constantly gets built up as increasigly tragic over time
vivid wraith
Awakening has tools for that I think
narrow tartan
Hmm yeah awakening can edit backstories
Both of those are. Sort of inspired by serial tv series protags.
obsidian dagger
I could see those as the Mystery issue? Although "discovering you were secretly evil" might be a Green issue, although that only seems likely if it's also a surprise to the character?
narrow tartan
Not secretly evil.
But like. You find out that the character has a sister who was never mentioned previously. Who suffered a tragic fate that is now relevant in the present day
obsidian dagger
Ah. I'd call that Mystery. Or... like the sort of thing that would happen to the Ace? I'm not sure why. But soap operas are probably Over The Top.
obsidian dagger
Thinking about characters who literally or figuratively carry their death with them. Probably usually Gatekeepers, but sometimes not? But like... their closest friend is the one prophecied to one day kill them, or someone who follows them around ready to strike if they turn evil, or they wield the only weapon that can harm them, or stuff like that.
obsidian dagger
Why are so many They Might Be Giants songs Deciever-coded? I feel like one of them is probably Creature of Delirium, or Whistling in the Dark plausibly sounds like Awakening... or maybe Become Somebody, but probably not.
vivid wraith
all the great bands have a creature of delirium in their ranks
narrow tartan
There was some sort of dumb film I aaw once. Involving a guy befriending a bunch of talking cockroaches. Somehow his life gets better And like. Spieitual/Domain?
obsidian dagger
The issue is that I want to use one song per band for my arcs as songs, and Creature of Delirium is really hard to find songs for (harder than Awakening, certainly) and TMBG almost certainly has a good one... but, on the other hand, Whistling in the Dark really does sound like Awakening. Deciever Awakening, but still Awakening.
fleet harbor
There was some sort of dumb film I aaw once. Involving a guy befriending a bunch...
… Joe’s Apartment?
narrow tartan
… Joe’s Apartment?
I was not looking for the film. But probably.
obsidian dagger
I just had a thought which I can only assume Jenna Moran herself projected into my brain: "The ancient Romans called it 'numen', but we now know that it's actually called MP."
vivid wraith
lol
narrow tartan
Oh. My. God.
restive ridge
lmaooo
obsidian dagger
It really sounds like the kind of thing she would write somewhere!
Of course then she would go into a long digression about nodding.
narrow tartan
nods along
frank light
FAR ROOFS!!!!!
vivid wraith
i have too many feelings about the far roofs
it's SO GOOD
ancient lagoon
yeah
obsidian dagger
...I can vividly imagine a Moran digression about how, actually, numerous miraculous beings do not nod at all as they reshape reality to their desires, and that furthermore, while nodding is frequently correlated, associating divine power with nodding would be very rude to Xingtian seeing as how he does not have a head at all and is still quite divine, and as such the term "mp" is both more accurate and more polite.
...Xingtian, who is named Defiance
narrow tartan
What if. You meased around with how miracule points worked. And made them. Much more impactful
Thinking about it. My idea
"Each one spent buys twice as many miracle levels than the last" would break the whole game
Though. You could do something where. Each point you are down is harder to regain.
Hmm. Could a strategist make a shard with the Casting Rite?
vivid wraith
Strategist shards seem to have been reworked in 4e
but that's the kind of space the casting rite would cover imo
instead of Excrucian (on par with an imperator) and shard (on par with nobles) you have the excrucian that manifests in Creation, the deep excrucian that wars in the drowning deeps, and extra minion opportunities through Casting
narrow tartan
In particular. Combining the Casting Rite and the Masking Rite would be particularly appropriate
For making versions of yourself
Also. I like the idea of. A strategist with an autonatic Casting Rite that generates minions. And over time they just sort of infest the area
narrow tartan
Just weird goblin creatures
obsidian dagger
I really want to use a They Might Be Giants song for Creature of Delirium but Whistling in the Dark is a good Awakening song...
Also, what do people think about Although the Sky as Prophet? Or is it not a great match?
Or should I exclude it since it's video game music?
frank light
video game music is good!
obsidian dagger
It is! And I considered, but never placed, some Strive music. I'm just trying to be picky (which is why I have so few locked in)
They Might Be Giants has a lot of arguably Deceiver-coded songs.
vestal mist
Video Game music is great
obsidian dagger
it is. Do you know of any which sounds a ton like a particular arc? Ideally the song itself sounds like the arc, rather than just being a song for a character who clearly has that arc.
Like, Johnny from Guilty Gear is such a Creature of the Light (especially in the anime) but I'm not sure if his song is Creature of the Light? ...I think it is; the choral "he'll come (he'll come)" chanting is what Appear foreshadowing sounds like.
obsidian dagger
Hm. The character definitely fits. The music... sort of fits, but I worry you wouldn't be able to hear it without training and/or contextual knowledge?
obsidian dagger
Whereas Hollow Moon is just a person singing about how they'll come back from the dead and make deals with evil characters and their enemies are their friends. It's so perfectly Gatekeeper that it causes problems that nothing else fits anything as well.
narrow tartan
glues the rules and the game together
vivid wraith
no!!!!!
narrow tartan
Muh ha ha
obsidian dagger
I think that would just leave you with A Human Being.
now, which one's the falling angel and which one's the rising ape?
frank light
you might get a sort of like, adam and eve type of human
someone who can name things
narrow tartan
Looking up. Familiar of Zero stuff. Because someone once did a short lived nobilis crossover quest
narrow tartan
Secret histories type weirdness in Nobilis would be odd. Like it. Some works of fiction actually happened and then got pulled away from tje world. And having it not be that unusual of a thing
obsidian dagger
What arc do you think Although The Sky is? I'm considering Prophet, or maybe something Orange (probably not Become Somebody, ironically, but it could fit Allegory or Star Quality, I bet).
meanwhile, Whistling in the Dark feels like Deceiver Awakening, while And She Was feels like True God Awakening.
EDIT: CW for flashing lights I forgot they were in the video
Or Called Away, but probably Awakening.
Road to Nowhere might also be something Black.
Or Once in a Lifetime could be Called Away... I think Talking Heads is a True God band and They Might Be Giants is a Deceiver band.
although some of their stuff could be Prophet, which True Gods don't get. They are not Frantic.
narrow tartan
The American desire to do weird things with mythologized kings
narrow tartan
Ruleslord whose estates are inimical to humanity because they represent human fears
Or. Sort of?
Thinking about wolves again
obsidian dagger
I would argue that human fears are not inimical to humanity. They are loathed and despised... but how can we define ourselves without an Other to fear and flee from? What are we, if not our fears? ...although that's maybe more Game than Rule.
obsidian dagger
...is pain a Rule estate? I had thought it was True God but I might be wrong.
fleet harbor
Fears seem to be within their wheelhouse.
Could be either, or could be neither.
Estates like pain and fear feel like they could plausibly fit in a lot of different places.
narrow tartan
Specifically. One idea I have had is Wolves as an Estate
And the previous power of Wolves didnt like humanity and. Under their watch wolves were much more dangerous and plentiful
And. Their Imperator being a Ruler seems fitting in a weird way
obsidian dagger
...have you read about Lucy Godsfollow (on page 415 of GMD)? She's interesting.
She has Sentimental, and I could imagine her as Dying of Wolves, but I privately wonder if she wouldn't rather have Impresario instead.
gloomy oasis
Are Wolves and Dogs different estates?
vivid wraith
i'd assume they are
obsidian dagger
I was going to say "no, because wolves are a wild thing", and that made me realize I don't actually fully understand Wildlords. Like, I basically know what they are, but I don't understand what they're about.
narrow tartan
Thats a fair point. They are weird
patent tiger
Both are actually emanations of Bones
narrow tartan
But like. I remember hearing once about how people thought a bunch of crazy stuff about wolves and tales of packs of hundreds of whatever. And like. "Yeah, the old wolf duchess didnt like humans much. Cursed them with death by wolves. Then after she died they decided to make everyone think Wolf War One was against the Germans"
obsidian dagger
Are they weird? I'm not making a statement about Wildlords, but about my own ignorance.
fleet harbor
Wildlords are, at the simplest aesthetic level, fey.
They are beings of the void who woke up in and as part of Creation, and they embody a kind of mad solipsism that tracks with what Ninuan is.
obsidian dagger
...hm. I don't know if Exoplanets even makes sense as an Estate, but if it did, it'd be Wild, wouldn't it?
fleet harbor
One could plausibly argue that their estates are those of the Thing Unto Itself.
But as always, estates may not belong in places that make obvious sense (or any kind of sense).
fleet harbor
The song of the wild says: "I am I, the observer, the center of all that exists. All knowledge is self-knowledge, not in the sense Bruce Lee meant it but in the sense that only I can truly be said to exist. George Orwell said a lunatic is a minority or one, and there is only one, and it's me."
So their estates, if one were looking for a theme, might be things that are self-justifying.
frank light
I’ve been reading Descartes meditations for philosophy class
And he states that the cause of a perceived thing in reality must be at least as real as its effect,
fleet harbor
Wildlords have ... lessee, Persona, Monstrous, Symbolic, and Allegorical? Do I have that right?
frank light
Cold objects cannot spark into fire
But an object with a higher perfect concept of heat could (a lighter can heat an object, it contains heat in higher reality)
And wildlords understand themselves to be their own higher reality
At least, that’s the vibes in my head
Descartes is wild
fleet harbor
And he states that the cause of a perceived thing in reality must be at *least* ...
The fun thing is that one can make a plausible case that he never truly justifies this claim, and there are Buddhist and quasi-Buddhist objections to it.
frank light
True
But he makes a good argument for it
Which is that it does not seem possible to make something up completely without having had some previous basis from which to construct it or principle
That there must be something that is as equally real if not more so that is generating the perceived reality
Whether it be a true world, all powerful god, or malicious demon
He does at least make a good argument for it
fleet harbor
Personally I cotton towards, "thought is happening, therefore thought is happening".
"I" seems like a big assumption to layer on top of that, to me :D
frank light
Oh that’s the start of it yeah
Clearly
Because one is thinking
It is undeniable that the self exists in some way
The self clearly is capable of doubt and thought. No question of that.
There sure is a self
obsidian dagger
Personally I cotton towards, "thought is happening, therefore thought is happeni...
frank light
And it is certainly perceiving something.
Now the question is why is it perceiving, or what is causing that perception, given it could be an illusion, but undeniably that self is perceiving something
That’s at least what the meditations seem to be struggling with so far
fleet harbor
Is it? Is there an entity that could be clearly described as gk that is doing the thinking? Or is there simply thought taking place, which can be at best temporarily described as gk's thoughts?
But yeah, a Wildlord might be seen as accepting the central notion of the meditation ("I think therefore I am") while rejecting all of the other ones.
"It's I think therefore I am, not I think therefore you are, numbnuts."
(Imagine an eleven foot tall, ethereal elven woman saying this.)
frank light
But yeah, a Wildlord might be seen as accepting the central notion of the medita...
Yeah
I was just reminded of Descartes and his idea that there must be at least something outside the I causing reality
But because wildlords are primal beings
They can contain higher reality inside themselves
Which leaks out of them as their laws
restive ridge
Is it? Is there an entity that could be clearly described as gk that is doing th...
Obviously so
fleet harbor
My favorite metaphor for this stuff is a waterfall.
We talk about a waterfall as a thing, but there's no particular physical entity that can be described as such. What we're looking at is more of a process than a thing.
obsidian dagger
random thoughts i should have said at previous times, in no particular order:
- Wildlords, as the saying goes, insist upon themselves. For some reason I think oak trees and octopi are Wild Estates?
- Bees are Wild estates because of the Bee Movie opening thing (do not do this)
- Why do so many They Might Be Giants songs sound Deciever-coded??
...wildlord ruling bees, ice skating, static electricity, and hourglasses.
would it be "ice skating" or "ice skates" as the estate, do you think?
vivid wraith
Skating imo
obsidian dagger
I wonder... is Lifetime Achievement Award Allegory?
frank light
Maybe
obsidian dagger
In writing up XP actions, I have come to a new understanding of reaction shots.
Quest actions give you XP for doing things which are appropriate for your narrative. XP actions give you XP for doing things which are appropriate for your genre of play. And reaction shots give you XP for doing things which are appropriate for your character.
narrow tartan
overthinking excrucian skin tones again
gloomy oasis
The rainbow used to have eight colors. This one destroyed one of them, and now wears it as its own.
fleet harbor
The rainbow used to have eight colors. This one destroyed one of them, and now w...
In Karen’s mimic game the rainbow used to have seven colors.
Then @magic mason destroyed indigo (offscreen, before the game started).
magic mason
Yeah
obsidian dagger
...I am suddenly reminded of the moment in Undead Unluck where I realized it was up to something special. (Also, reminded that I somehow never finished Undead Unluck and need to catch up on it.)
ember plover
...I am suddenly reminded of the moment in Undead Unluck where I realized it was...
Near the start, when we learn that || Stars don't exist || ?
obsidian dagger
Okay, thank you for teaching me about https://bsky.app/profile/mythologybot.boodoo.co, because somehow "randomly generated mythology" seems like the right vibe for Chuubo's.
vivid wraith
It's not generated! It's pulling from an index
obsidian dagger
...every single one of those is by a human? I assumed it was a neural net trained on that index.
https://bsky.app/profile/mythologybot.boodoo.co/post/3lxmpefmuqd2h this is a real thing that's indexed?
I. Guess I assumed it only had more universal stuff. But either I'm underestimating the frequency of some of this or this includes more than I thought.
obsidian dagger
...huh. Okay Then!
...honestly flipping through this to random pages and using them to inspire myths in a fantasy world might be intriguing.
frank light
They’re awesome
vivid wraith
the ol' kite and partridge incident
obsidian dagger
I honestly feel like this would run into the Dwarf Fortress Patch Notes issue: the real ones are so weird that AI generated ones are indistinguishable.
vivid wraith
probably lol
obsidian dagger
it has occurred to me that, given proper curation, "dwarf fortress bug or folklore motif" would be nearly impossible.
vivid wraith
obsidian dagger
Especially when you get to the ones which are about dwarves. Some are probably both. Like "Dwarfs given inedible food to eat."
(F451.3.7.3 if you're curious)
obsidian dagger
help! I am seriously considering using the term "Octomyth" to talk about Chuubo's.
obsidian dagger
are all irrational numbers a single Estate, or does each one have its own estate? And, if so, does the number e share an estate with the letter e?
restive ridge
I feel like all their properties are too unique for a single Estate
and Estates are not written in english so to speak
narrow tartan
I think Pi and e would be their own estates. e belongs to a wildlord.
obsidian dagger
I could see pi as being either Rules or Wild, depending on whether you consider numbers to be a tool humans use to understand the world, or an intrinsic inherently-true fact which exists independently of the substrate.
narrow tartan
I think Rules for Pi works well.
obsidian dagger
Oh, here's a tough question: is i Rules or Wild? Or something else?
ancient lagoon
help! I am seriously considering using the term "Octomyth" to talk about Chuubo...
do it
obsidian dagger
well, if I did, I'd probably use it to throw shade at the monomyth.
obsidian dagger
I'm also thinking about an arc (probably a Blue arc, or maybe just a single quest) where a character is tempted with the knowledge of their heritage which they previously lacked.
vivid wraith
oooh
obsidian dagger
It could definitely also be Orange.
obsidian dagger
Usually a Quest 1, probably? Where, like… you’re a Jotunn adopted by human parent, and they’re great and love you, but you don’t really know what being a Jotunn means. And then you meet one, or find a book about them, and go, “oh… is this me? Is this what it means to be the person that I am?”
And a frequent twist is either having the person teaching you, or the group you’re learning about, be either morally dubious in an exciting way, or more worrying and evil. Like… when you’re learning what it means to be a Jotunn, what do you do when you hear about all the things Jotunn used to do to humans?
obsidian dagger
...there might maybe also be a Green version of this, for an alien going through Alien Puberty while surrounded by humans, or something like that?
there is also a quest where you know (or feel like) you shouldn't do something, but you keep running into counterexamples. Like, you shouldn't peek into a book of forbidden magic, but people keep accidentally leaving it out where you can get to it, or putting you in charge of making sure nobody reads it, or offhandedly mentioning that you'd be immune to the curses on it.
that is probably like 50 quests actually.
narrow tartan
huh
vivid wraith
there is also a quest where you know (or feel like) you shouldn't do something, ...
this rules i think
obsidian dagger
It feels like a lot of possible quests for a lot of characters, but just... a quest where temptation keeps presenting itself over and over. (And, you know, sometimes you actually should read that book of forbidden magic.)
obsidian dagger
I am suddenly remembering my custom Black issue, Nonchalance.
The way it works is... any time you take an action saying "I would normally never hurt someone close to me like this, but it's OK because time is about to loop and all the harm will be undone" or "I wouldn't do these kind of things in the real world, but this is just a simulation and so I can just restore an older save point or spin up a new simulation" or "I can do something awful to get an important answer, and then rewind time to keep the answer without any of the consequences", or basically when you compromise your morality with the justification that your actions don't really count because they'll be undone, you pick up a point of Nonchalance.
Now, could this be Vice? Yes, probably, especially since it'll frequently be increased by Wicked Actions. But... I think that Vice is usually tied to a specific idea that you think is OK. It's about becoming a different, worse person, which is why it's Green. Here... you know that your actions aren't right, and you don't think they're right. Instead, you think they're inconsequential. You start thinking morality doesn't apply to you in the same sorts of ways, because time travel, or because they're not real. And that feels more Black, especially since the inevitable explosion at Nonchalance 4 isn't you losing self-control but your detachment being shaken by some of the consequences suddenly sticking after all.
obsidian dagger
I think that Orange and Green arcs can sometimes look a lot like each other. Like, Serpent Orange is probably also about being a giant snake! It's just more about the societal implications of that, and the social role of "being a giant snake", and trying to be better at it, not the physical form.
Or Kamichu is an anime (and very Chuubo-flavored) about a young girl learning to be a god, but very much in the Orange sense; she's less worried about any physical or metaphysical transformation and more worried about performing her role.
frank light
i think more than other allegory arcs, serpents struggle a lot with being trapped in a role they might not have consented to
if you look at the "understanding allegory" section, you'll notice that the three examples map on to three types of beings with allegory
obsidian dagger
Which makes sense for overlapping with Green, since they don't consent to being giant snakes either (even if they don't necessarily dislike it).
frank light
those that fell from grace/had their divine dream twisted, those that are alien monsters trapped in the world, and those who are caged by their role in the world
true yeah
obsidian dagger
Green arcs are generally not something a person chooses. It's just true, and they have to deal with it. There's a reason they're arguably the most puberty-coded color of arc.
frank light
i heard someone also say that orange arcs are a bit like a negotiation between you and the world
since a lot of it is also like, "documentary about your issues/enemies" rather than "heres your enemy!!!!"
obsidian dagger
I think Blue arcs are generally more about negotiation with the Other, but Orange kind of is in a way too?
frank light
blue is about a negotiation with the Other for sure
but orange is about negotiating with your role
obsidian dagger
Yeah. They're not totally dissimilar. But Orange is much more about yourself than Blue is.
frank light
you start by aspiring with it, then you find yourself transformed, find yourself falling or erring in some way, before finally ascending
orange is about yourself yes
which is your role
many arcs negotiate with the world and themselves
obsidian dagger
Although Orange frequently involves you not knowing who you are.
frank light
ye
typically in 1 3 and 4
1 being you aspiring
3 being facing some transformative struggle
and 4 being you erring
2 is just showing off your problems, kinda like a documentary style
and 5 is transcendence
narrow tartan
Glitch. Oddly seems easier to explain than nobilis
obsidian dagger
I usually explain Nobilis by drawing parallels to how a surprising amount of stuff depicts Santa Claus.
narrow tartan
Oddly i see it
vivid wraith
Huh
narrow tartan
Things like. How in Miracle on whatever street he needs to restore faith in the holiday i guess.
vivid wraith
@obsidian dagger do you have any special analysis of Issues on a ludic level (not a metaphysical one)?
obsidian dagger
Sorry I missed your message and… not yet but ping me tomorrow and I may be able to say something?
fleet harbor
Thinking about the power of baseball
Baseball …
… is the art of paying attention.
… time is measured only in outs.
obsidian dagger
<@236576766918000641> do you have any special analysis of Issues on a ludic leve...
So, I quite literally slept on in, and... I'm not sure how much this is a ludic analysis per se, but it touches on it while also being more of a narrative analysis?
vivid wraith
uh-huh
obsidian dagger
But I thought about what would happen if a person treated Issues as a benefit, and played accordingly. And... okay, I have a working understanding of Issues, but it doesn't perfectly accomodate Hero. But, generally, my understanding of the HG handing out an issue is communicating "there is a problem somewhere within the sphere of this color".
Not necessarily that the PC recieving the issue is doing anything wrong, mind you! Just... if you're in an action-packed story, and the narrative found it really important to call out a moment of a character sitting and watching the sunrise as Something Worth Noticing, clearly that's foreshadowing that the character has Something To Deal With emotionally.
Or, if you're in a pastoral story but a character's fighting a monster... well, something must be wrong if there's a monster to fight, so, Hero.
So, if someone is maxing out on Issues, they're starting a bunch of side stories (because that's basically what Issues are: turning out-of-place actions into dangling plot hooks), and you're creating a lot of narrative fodder.
vivid wraith
i see i see
obsidian dagger
It's also very interesting that... if you're picking up Issues, you're going against what the genre expects of you, in terms of out-of-genre XP actions, and you're picking up MP as a result. I had thought of MP as a sort of general "consolation prize" and/or reward for being in inconovenient situations... but. I just started looking at what gives out MP.
And the main sources are:
- Getting Issues (ie. going against what the genre says you should be doing)
- Having bonds cause trouble for you (going against your understanding of what it's "natural" for you to do)
- Being Frantic (which is operating independently of what reality thinks you should do)
So, and this is drifting into metaphysics, MP is the power of disagreeing with the world. Of refusing its designs for you.
vivid wraith
Bonds causing trouble is still Bonds working properly I think
you're not less The Greatest Swordsman when being The Greatest Swordsman is a problem
obsidian dagger
True, but... how do I put it? If you're voluntarily putting yourself into a position where being The Greatest Swordsman is a problem for you, you're going against what would be "natural" and "easy" for you, in a way? ...and upon further reading, you also get MP from serving your Bond, and I'm not sure what to do with that.
I keep forgetting details.
Hm. I will table those thoughts for now, and circle back to Issues, and also Quests since those are what I'm currently failing to write a video about.
(Issues are going to be episode 3, since I split quest arcs into their own episode.)
obsidian dagger
...I dunno. I'm just thinking about Bonds now, and how, just because something is natural for you, that doesn't mean it's necessarily good for you.
narrow tartan
I think I remember Glitch describing Bonds as things about you that are true but are still in question? And Geas/Afflictions are things that are just accepted as true.
obsidian dagger
...I wonder if Immortality ought to be an Affliction.
candid compass
It can be
obsidian dagger
It's Chthonic, and Chthonic powers can touch Afflictions, so probably not. But it's similar to an Affliction in that it's not really something that you consciously do or can even choose to not do.
candid compass
Getting an Affliction/Geas that says "I am immortal" is a cheap but less effective way to get it
The Glitch book mentions this too
vivid wraith
obsidian dagger
Beware of Chicken is, ultimately, not that good. But it does have a character who clearly has Shed Scales, I'm remembering.
He's a giant boar, and at one point he runs through a tunnel dug by a mole, tramples over a legion of people, and then leaves by walking across thin pine branches.
Also of note: Child of the Ash levels are less about being a stronger kaiju, and more about being a more convenient kaiju. But you're less raising the ceiling and more just... making things more practical and acceptable.
ancient lagoon
https://bsky.app/profile/tzemingdynasty.bsky.social/post/3lytxzzneka2m
Drushilda Kallistei is dying of glorch.
vivid wraith
How. Hostile is the shadow of Wanderer
Notionally they pose some kind of threat to the Wanderer's Realm. But they also tend to be the Wanderer in some way so ????
i just know Gorgon
lov Gorgon
narrow tartan
Gorgon lov you?
vivid wraith
as gorgon loves all monstrous things
narrow tartan
Don't like the "half golems" thing but interesting observation
but like half elemental giants is coolio
obsidian dagger
I always interpreted it as like... an alternate interpretation of your Estate, which you'd like to say is twisting it away from its true nature, but arguably isn't. But that's only one possible vision of it.
narrow tartan
So. Any games beeides Nobilis and Mage the Ascension in which one pc can be living in a computer simulation while everyone else in the same world isnt?
obsidian dagger
I would say "the far roofs" but that's just annoyingly pedantic.
ancient lagoon
So. Any games beeides Nobilis and Mage the Ascension in which one pc can be livi...
any game, if you convince the GM
i don't know of any others that offer mechanical support for that
vestal mist
So. Any games beeides Nobilis and Mage the Ascension in which one pc can be livi...
Shadowrun 4e
frank light
So. Any games beeides Nobilis and Mage the Ascension in which one pc can be livi...
The treacherous turn
jovial cipher
Mindjammer probably
narrow tartan
I meant. The realitt the character exists in is a computer somulation but only for them. Or something
But. You could do something sinilar with some of those suggestions
vivid wraith
obsidian dagger
currently thinking about a line from Cube Escape Paradox (because I'm currently watching the 6 hour video about it) where a character said something about dreaming about seeing himself on TV, but the one on TV was "more real" than he was and looked uncanny. (This is because the televised sections were live-action, but it's still interesting.) And something about the idea of seeing "yourself, but somehow more realistic" seems very Black (or... maybe Red?)
also the whole thing is like 5 layers removed from reality. We don't see the character say this. We see a character in the middle of a dreamlike journey find an audio recording of him telling another person about a dream he once had about seeing "himself but more real".
vivid wraith
sniping fluffy's self-promo opportunity: new froofs homebrew
https://fluffytheterrible6.itch.io/blood-and-bones-among-the-roofs-preview
vivid wraith
IT'S GOOD
magic mason
I will be headed to bed now because I am very sleepy but
If anyone wants to chat feel free to ping me
ancient lagoon
this passage from wtf is like
i think the big part of it that stuck with me
fleet harbor
Not bad at all
ancient lagoon
The story you take away from the game will not be the story other people take away from it. Help them realize theirs, but don't expect them to align with yours, or be as important to you as yours.
vivid wraith
It's good stuff
magic mason
sniping fluffy's self-promo opportunity: new froofs homebrew
https://fluffythete...
anyone got feedback on this?
grand knot
obsidian dagger
That really sounds like a luthe for... FUTILE-STRENGTH maybe?
obsidian dagger
...I am tempted to try to find XKCD comics for every arc, because I just found Awakening: https://xkcd.com/266/
maybe Called Away, but probably Awakening.
narrow tartan
Is. Am i. Something.
Basically thinking heavy thoughts. Makes me think back to glitch
obsidian dagger
You're definitely something. I don't know how specific I can be, but you are something.
narrow tartan
Thats nice.
magic mason
sniping fluffy's self-promo opportunity: new froofs homebrew
https://fluffythete...
has anyone gotten the chance to check this out?
narrow tartan
Serpents are very tangled up in their estates
narrow tartan
Just. Thinking about. The logic of the Wish Granting Engine
Like. When you make a big wish the outcome of the wish is based on various things. The way it acts through the world i guess?
And the Wish Granting Engine refers abck to Chuubo?
magic mason
Reverse flash would have indomitable with “faster than you”
and a curse of being a living time paradox
obsidian dagger
Barbie is Become Somebody
(also I'm reading a Psychonauts fic where Ford Cruller is showing the darkest parts of Become Somebody and losing more and more of himself to his roles, but I'm not sure whether or not he's a great example in canon?)
frank light
oh interesting
obsidian dagger
lemme grab the relevant quote quick
Each year, the time Ford could spend with all his facilities decreased, and the more time he spent trapped in the role his mind had invented.
Janitor. Chef. Clerk. All apparently menial jobs, but ones that Ford showed instant aptitude for, easily able to handle the most complex parts of the job, while being completely incapable of explaining how he did it.
Sasha had tracked Ford to German auto-plants, where he'd been working on assembly lines, to New York bus depot's where he'd been a driver, to Chinese textile mills and on one worrying occasion a Russian nuclear submarine. There was no rhyme or reason to the jobs, and Ford himself was unable to parse whether he'd teleported himself to the location because his mind demanded the job, or had teleported first and simply picked up the job based on the psychic profile of the location.
restive ridge
vestal mist
Hmmmmmm
fleet harbor
Robin nodding repeatedly yeah that's how it works
obsidian dagger
It took me a while to notice the tiny sun, moon, and world in the rocket's bubble and I think that adds a lot.
frank light
yeah
fleet harbor
This is why we need the aether back
frank light
YEAHHH
restive ridge
It took me a while to notice the tiny sun, moon, and world in the rocket's bubbl...
The big bubble has a tiny rocket too in the last panel
obsidian dagger
yeah, and that took me a bit to understand what I was seeing.
vivid wraith
obsidian dagger
very silly idea for an Estate, which would probably be Game but might plausibly be Hell or... idk, Wild? Heaven? And I can't figure out a properly generic name, but: Happy Meal toys. I feel like those deserve an estate to themselves. ...probably Wild, actually, for hard-to-pin-down Vibes reasons.
Or would that be an emanation of the Estate of Fast Food, which is definitely Game?
obsidian dagger
CMOT Dibbler has Become Somebody if he has anything, as people keep running into him or his apparently doppelgangers all over the place, always being slightly shady salesmen with all other details adjusted for context. A lot of janitors also have Become Somebody.
obsidian dagger
On the topic of XKCD comics for each arc, this miight be Accursed: https://xkcd.com/82/
(It might not be, but it might be.)
Also Beret Guy is a good example of Reality Syndrome pretty often.
obsidian dagger
https://xkcd.com/298/ okay I'm not sure what this is but something Deciever probably
vivid wraith
Yeah this is straightforward Deceiverism
obsidian dagger
Also the famous black hat briefcase comic (lemme see if I can find it) is a pretty good example of Creature of Delirium probably?
https://xkcd.com/1094/ this one
Although I could also see an argument for something orange... but probably Delirium.
obsidian dagger
Found an exciting new Wicked Action in a fic I’m reading: secretly dosing your friend with sleeping pills because he’s becoming so sleep-deprived it poses a threat to him and indirectly to you
Also since the sleeping pills are melatonin it gives him ultra-vivid nightmares, when he had already been avoiding sleeping due to nightmares… very much a Wicked Action.
narrow tartan
Hmm. Given domain. A noble who isnt a weirdo fitting their estate will become one.
Also if you can escape the lie of reality realism noble persona/star quality makes sense
Strategist who is still trying to end the world but in a reallly ineffective way
narrow tartan
Spy nose
obsidian dagger
like. are you talking about this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groucho_glasses
narrow tartan
No. A weirder arcana I came up with was a false nose that can consume someones nasal cavity and act as a spy.
obsidian dagger
...you know what, sure.
restive ridge
fleet harbor
Lord Entropig
frank light
SO TRUE
obsidian dagger
I feel like that's something one of the Six Sins would pull, but I forget which.
gloomy oasis
Isn't creating an ontologically evil creature itself an ontologically evil act? You're causing more evil to exist in the world.
patent tiger
It dies after, so it's a net neutral on that front
obsidian dagger
Plus, it might suffer before dying, and if the suffering of evil things is good, that's a net plus.
fleet harbor
Isn't creating an ontologically evil creature itself an ontologically evil act? ...
That's why Lord Entropig is the one creating them.
gloomy oasis
fleet harbor
It turns out its imperators
restive ridge
Prepare for the flood
frank light
YEAHHHH
vivid wraith
Prepare for the flood
no that's the poetry farming game
narrow tartan
Noble with Called away and Visage instead of Persona and Domain.
frank light
https://bsky.app/profile/narfnra.bsky.social/post/3lzqv4a7hfc2o
Omg
narrow tartan
The best thing about spy noses is Imperators never look at noses
narrow tartan
New strategist character.
Gnomanne. Dying of tempo
Shes just trying to do her own thing but she exists slightly out of sync with everything else. But. The world couldnt let that alone
obsidian dagger
Okay, yeah, "hated by the god of failure" is a perfectly reasonable way of describing the Auctoritas Magister. I think I have to lock in Just Lean as Creature of the Light.
Hm, no, "it is a fool who hides / because everyone is his eyes and ears" sounds like Indomitable? So maybe it isn't perfect? But it still probably works well enough.
Also the choral "he'll come" chanting is the auditory version of the Appear foreshadowing.
...although having your appearance heralded is also an Indomitable thing... or, also, a Mystery thing...
I had locked in a decision and now I'm less sure...
obsidian dagger
Am I correct in thinking that high-Persona Nobles tend to have Estates which are things that people do, as opposed to just physical phenomena which don't involve humans as much, or elements which exist without much human interaction?
narrow tartan
Not necessarily
obsidian dagger
Like, the Noble of Ice Skating would probably be high-Persona, and the Noble of Zebras would probably be low-Persona unless Zebras aren't their own estate?
narrow tartan
Harmony, from the Mimic game, was all in on Persona and had the estate of Vanilla
vivid wraith
Am I correct in thinking that high-Persona Nobles tend to have Estates which are...
in canon?
I'm not sure we have trends
narrow tartan
Is Santa Claus Wildlord?
vivid wraith
2e had tall tales and folklore as distorted accounts of True Gods
obsidian dagger
I think Santa Claus is a Noble.
...also, it suddenly occurs to me that there is an argument that Seizhi should be able to turn people into Chuubo.
It almost makes more sense than turning people into Seizhi, which is how their power currently works.
vivid wraith
how so
obsidian dagger
Their role is (or could be) "Chuubo's best friend", which implies the existence of Chuubo, and thus the most effective way for you to fit into their story is by being Chuubo.
...this doesn't work as well if Chuubo is actually a main character.
Become Somebody doesn't usually turn other people into you. It usually makes them support your role.
...now I'm having thoughts about brood parasitism, which is not directly relevant to Seizhi, but does allow for fun stuff with Become Somebody.
grand knot
God's original sin was speaking to Nothing and cutting it into Creation
We must bring all back to Nothing
gloomy oasis
^ This poster is an Excrucian.
frank light
lmao
vestal mist
God's original sin was speaking to Nothing and cutting it into Creation
Counterpoint
God is definitionally incapable of sin
grand knot
Counterpoint
God is definitionally incapable of sin
Who told you that, God's henchmen?
vestal mist
The definition of Sin
fleet harbor
Am I correct in thinking that high-Persona Nobles tend to have Estates which are...
No, Domain and Persona are typically about the Power's relationship with their Estate, not intrinsic properties of the Estate.
Persona usually relates to embodying the Estate, and Domain to exerting control over it.
obsidian dagger
That's fair.
frank light
Persona involves identification, while domain is much more spiritual
patent tiger
One could look at it from a charop angle to consider optimal trends, but that depends on how the estate properties are written, and those can get weaselly for both categories
frank light
A domain over an estate that is about an action might rule over people who do those actions
A domain for Murder might let you create murderers, summon serial killers, or shatter someone’s homocidal urges
While persona for murder might make you…more like the idea of murder, or a metaphor for murder? Or murder is a metaphor for you
patent tiger
A domain for Murder might let you create murderers, summon serial killers, or sh...
Or just let you point at someone and they die
patent tiger
Domain can get broad if you let it
That would require the Estate of Women
frank light
Explode
magic mason
While persona for murder might make you…more like the idea of murder, or a metap...
I really like “your estate is a metaphor for you” as a way to do estate properties
narrow tartan
Ooh yeah
ancient lagoon
I think Santa Claus is a Noble.
there was a nobilis supplement about that
Niall Lord-of-Days, Power of Good Order
vivid wraith
yazeba's froofs crossover....
https://xavid.itch.io/hearts-thorns-rat
frank light
In 2016, the Sun disappeared. Forty percent of the world was cast in shadow.
There arose great towers, atop which the sparkplug suns sat. Artificial sunlight that would last for 77 years, if nothing else drained it.
Where there is light, science and mathematics and the rational prosaic world makes sense. The further away you become from the light, the weirder things get.
The world becomes mythic at dusk. It becomes a deep squirming thing at Twilight. In the dark, there are holes, and deep things fight in shadows, where time becomes one.
Humanity is confused and lost. Technology is semi broken in places. To travel the dusklight (places where the mythic is real) is done by train. For some reason the internet still works.
Most of the world is still in dusklight.
Some people have accepted the existence of magic, though it is still strange. The most accepted forms of magic are Formation magic and Faery magic, subtle things that are deniable. Alchemy, Night-craft, Conjuration, and other unnatural arts are not accepted by scientific consensus.
The Camorra has attempted to take more direct control of world governments in response, pulling strings to replace the United Nations with the Haemanthus Council.
King Suhlamu emerges in 2017, and with a spear of light, takes over the North American continent and secedes from the Haemanthus Council, going to war with the rest of the world. He claims a great war against Evil. He claims the continent under the banner of the "Sapphire Kingdom”. People still say they’re from canada or mexico or america but officially its the sapphire kingdom. People don’t know how to feel about having a god king as a ruler.
creating weird lore for sparkplug sun
narrow tartan
Im imagining. US conspiracies about the Haemanthus Council.
frank light
lol
a weird god king showed up, took over the place, and started saying that they serve the king of all evil so
idk theres probably a couple
narrow tartan
Camora getting accused of being lizard people much to their bewilderment
obsidian dagger
There are many XKCD comics that are Reality Syndrome, but https://xkcd.com/965/ is certainly one of them.
Or Spiritual, but the vibes aren't quite right for that.
vestal mist
XKCD is very Jenna at many times
narrow tartan
So. Polearma. An estate with properties that give form to countless variants?
Or did the Imperator of Spears have a lot of kids
Who are also imperatore
fleet harbor
There is no estate of polearms, there are only numerous specific estates that seem connected but aren't >_>
narrow tartan
Only problem with having ideas. Is if i ever got brave enough to run a game. I will have already told everyone
obsidian dagger
I get that! But, at least for Chuubo's... keep in mind that quests are player-facing information. You don't have to keep too much information secret; the biggest revelations will be created in the course of play.
obsidian dagger
I just suddenly vividly imagined Chuubo saying "I wish pirates were real" and I'm not sure why.
vivid wraith
he already did
frank light
LMAO
vivid wraith
that's why they're real
tall jolt
ancient lagoon
thinking about Techno
ember plover
frank light
WOOOO
frank light
The land of Nbu is a shadowed place, said to be formed by hand by the great Devil Agares.
She does not rule this land, but she did build it. The grand city, which bears the same name, has monuments and edifices depicting her, though nobody remembers building them.
It is a many tiered city, constructed like an enormous tower, clawing it's way up to the Heavens. It is said that Agares was greatly amused and delighted by mankind's hubris in Babel, and wished to commemorate the act of unity.
Each tier of the city is ruled by one of her Powers, monstrous gods that bear her Laws. You can tell where you are based on the iconography of the local shrines. These shrines, too, seemed to form without any intervention. The top seems to scratch the sky.
Agares often walks within the city. It's never easy to know when a devil is speaking, but she always finds herself accidentally breaking a heart or taking a soul.
After the death of the sun, a great many humans have traveled here to call it home. It is a strange and dark place, but it is a home to many. It is no cage either, those who live within know the ways to and from Earth. But considering the state of that world, the Devil's Chancel is considered a much safer refuge. It is home to over thirty million people, by this point.
The Sapphire kingdom has heard of this land, but knows not how to reach it.
I love writing wackass chancels
narrow tartan
Wait. I just realized. The mimic serpent i have should be named Babel
frank light
Oh that would be funny as hell
narrow tartan
Its. He is a known mimic in permanent exile to his chancel which is neutral ground and plugs one of the openings in the cup of flame. And his estates are tickets and tourism.
obsidian dagger
...thinking about Babel reminds me of my idea for a secret teacher at School, who inflicts the Curse of Babel on students in order to be able to teach them language lessons.
Not at all similar to your mimic serpent.
vivid wraith
fleet harbor
What an unethical fit
narrow tartan
God. I suddenly am remembering the "ethically sourced human spine" handbag
gloomy oasis
"Ethically sourced human spine"
obsidian dagger
What is Language is a Virus, like, in general, but also as an Arc? ...is it Star Quality, possibly?
I could also imagine Creature of Delirium, or Awakening.
...Called Away?
obsidian dagger
Probably Star Quality?
frank light
Justice…
…is proportional and fair
…fixes what is broken
…punishes the wicked
…is blind and impartial
…lays kings low
Now make it a mimic estate :D
Or say that there used to be a trio of justice, mercy, and _____
_ having been destroyed, the other two don't work right.
frank light
lmao
frank light
Now make it a mimic estate :D
honestly i like the idea of justice being this...somewhat cruel thing
it simply acts upon you
and the power of justice is a tired philosophy student who now has a very very important job they did not ask for
fleet harbor
Three triplet angels
The angel of justice, explosions, struggle, and frogs
The angel of mercy, disease, riding, and tears
And the angel of _
frank light
ooooo
patent tiger
(As near as we can tell, the third thing was some form of edible musical instrument)
(No clue how that was supposed to stabilize the dynamic, but what can you do.)
obsidian dagger
somehow has similar energy to this https://xkcd.com/2893/
patent tiger
Yeah
frank light
(As near as we can tell, the third thing was some form of edible musical instrum...
it might've been a metaphor
but nobody's really sure anymore
obsidian dagger
It's probably part of why trial by combat doesn't work.
...now I'm suspecting that it was a metaphor, but it was also something about the ability of metaphor. Something like a Fourier transform, but for ethics; something that let you transform complicated ethical problems into simpler ones and solve them. In a way that's congruent with an edible musical instrument, unless that was just another domain that happened to be shared by the same angel.
...I may be messing up math terms in my metaphor since I never actually did that much advanced math.
Also I can't tell if this is Reality Syndrome, Renegade, or Gatecrasher (and I don't even know why it'd be Gatecrasher): https://xkcd.com/3082/
or Spiritual (Chess), or Creature of the Light's Transfix, or...
narrow tartan
It's probably part of why trial by combat doesn't work.
Yeah i had this idea as well.
Just a missing estate which made trial by combat type stuff make sense
gloomy oasis
(As near as we can tell, the third thing was some form of edible musical instrum...
All musical instruments are edible if you aren't a coward.
obsidian dagger
I think... Skills aren't just a measurement of ability. They are, to some extent, a measurement of what your character thinks is important. Which, obviously, if you don't think something is important you don't put in the time to get good at it... but thinking of it that way sort of explains Reality Syndrome's ability to share an Experience.
Chosen One is... okay, sometimes your enemy might not be "evil" per se, but the Chosen One arc is in some sense the universe validating the idea that this (magical skill, usually) is important enough that by practicing it you can make the world a better place because it directly counters evil (or whatever your enemy is).
magic mason
Hedge the fang has a body type triangle but the body types are Cat, Owl and Man
restive ridge
That tracks to me
narrow tartan
What
magic mason
What
Ya know those fallout type body type triangles where you make someone slimmer, thicker or more muscled
Instead he’s on a weird gradient between being a human, an owl or a cat, usually landing somewhere inbetween the 3
Like a man with a cat head that can turn 360 degrees
narrow tartan
...what?
magic mason
What exactly are you asking about?
narrow tartan
Sorry just haven't seen that in a game. But it sounds cool for hedge
narrow tartan
Neat
obsidian dagger
Remembering my absolutely genius glitch meme
oh I forgot my other "stop doing" one was so anticapitalist... hm.
this is the one I was looking for
vivid wraith
hehe
fleet harbor
Hmmmm estates
vivid wraith
If Creation is so great why haven't they come up with fstates yet
gloomy oasis
The "e" in "estates" is like "egirls".
frank light
'no it doesn't' - the Serpent of fgirls absolutely fuming
obsidian dagger
Strange Estate I was randomly thinking about: minced oaths.
...oh no. A thought just entered my head and will not leave: the Noble of Minced Oaths is basically Ned Flanders.
frank light
lmao
obsidian dagger
The book club conversation is making me wonder about how one would go about writing a campaign property which is basically "characters are allowed to have strange or impractical costumes, and you can't wonder how or where they got these costumes or where they stashed it or anything like that". This doesn't entirely obviate Creature of Fable's Iconic; if anything, Iconic would allow you to always look the same and not randomly show up in strange context-appropriate outfits/costumes.
Honestly probably fits a superhero costume. Every random two-bit villain is allowed to just have an elaborate costume and you aren't allowed to ask "did you, like, just rob a Spirit Halloween before showing up here or something?" You just have to accept that super characters just kind of have access to elaborate and probably impractical costumes.
or... no. Outfits for fighting game characters.
"how is this random poorly-socialized wandering bounty hunter getting designer clothing from a brand that specifically matches her theming and aesthetic, and also hair dye?" shut up. Don't worry about it.
magic mason
https://bsky.app/profile/crimreaper.bsky.social/post/3m2dcmeccnk2z
oooooo yeah
I love that as a Rules Magister a lot
Humanoid But Not Human
narrow tartan
Tbe face the face the face the face the
fleet harbor
I do love that Rules is so consistently stated to be among the weirdest Imperators
frank light
i love the rules so much
narrow tartan
Okay. Listening to a video And it has a hilariously Nobilis section title.
"Yes I'm a girl but I'm also a gun"
narrow tartan
What if we made the main four characters of the good place into nobles
(brought about by the thought of trying to explain human morality to various types of imperator)
(and remembering chidi chilli)
narrow tartan
I want the world breakers. I can be trusted to use it responsibly in my queet to end the world
ancient lagoon
The book club conversation is making me wonder about how one would go about writ...
[Costumes are ubiquitous and unremarkable.]
and transient
you know this would be a great Estate if only it existed
narrow tartan
I overthink things like.
"If you have imperial armored cheetahs with Vastness, Holy, Hunter, and Sealed does their hack need to be imperial miracles?"
frank light
I’m thinking a lot about the rules as of late
I find it interesting that most people who talk about them very often use their more villainous sides in discussion.
But like, I really enjoy playing them fully straight
I enjoy playing gamelords in occasionally positive or neutral lights too but
Rules I tend not to want to subvert for some reason
I guess subverting them is easy but
Idk.
“Volition” from disco elysium is an example of the rules, to me.
vivid wraith
Trigun is a Rules anime
fleet harbor
Pondering the question of magical kung fu in Nobilis 3e
Would the best way to do it be a Superior Skill, possibly coupled with Aspect?
frank light
hmmm
it depends on certain kinds of magical kung fu
sometimes its just an aspect thing you can learn to do repeatedly but is otherwise impossible for a human
for something like...a martial arts thing, a superior skill could probably do it "superior gargoyle style" or something that gives you the movement and schmovement of a stone gargoyle
for something like Ki-Rata from ksbd i might genuinely represent that with a magical skill
i guess its like
whats the vibe of the magical kung fu
fleet harbor
To some extent I’m pondering how best to represent a Power having worked their estate into martial arts
frank light
ooooo
estate themed martial arts....
honestly i could see that mostly being in aspect but like
yeah, superior skill could do it
fleet harbor
Since attributes don’t really mix, it’s not a straightforward question
frank light
power of the night for example might have like
"Superior Night-Meditator" or something
and theyve got a whole list of things that the Night-Meditation style can do to the practitioner's body
and what it can achieve
kinda like how superior vampire or superior physical control does it
fleet harbor
Indeebitably
frank light
"Night Meditators control their own shadow, swim through darkness as though it were a physical medium, and know how to grab the night as though it were a shrouding cloak"
idk
narrow tartan
Serpent Strategist Actual Mimic
fleet harbor
?
narrow tartan
The four splats i see as fitting me
fleet harbor
Aha
frank light
lol
fleet harbor
Forget about imitating monkeys or tigers, my kung fu imitates the inexorable end of all things
fleet harbor
Damn it Karen stop giving me inspiration
fleet harbor
Soul Carving Sword probably
frank light
cleave the sky apart
frank light
power of endings with terrible anxiety...
with a gigantic scythe or smthin
comically large scythe
fleet harbor
I was thinking sword, if only as a more classical symbol of death
frank light
ah true
scythes are just cool to me
....though i do love the idea of it being comically long or unwieldy
fleet harbor
Possibly pulled straight from the pages of a series of martial arts novels that no longer exists.
fleet harbor
Yes
frank light
or the sword
oh fuck yeah lmao
anxious fictional character who is the fundamental expression of endings
thats dope as fuck
im into that
fleet harbor
Like a cool death martial arts character in the book who you never got to see into the inner world of, right?
Because a part of the supporting cast
But once pulled back into reality it turns out she’s the strong and silent type entirely because of crippling social anxiety
fleet harbor
And so she still mostly acts extremely cool except when no one is looking
But internally she is always overwhelmed.
fleet harbor
I’m adapting an idea I had for an Exalted character with this to some degree but I like this version more
frank light
i think it has a ton of potential
frank light
You can get pretty annoying with them I’m given to understand
What did you have in mind
sleek socket
What did you have in mind
have you read A Wind in The Door and the portions of that where an infinite number of replicas of you convince you to commit Suicide of the Soul
thats what im thinking of
frank light
I haven’t seen that no but that seems like some solid deceiver or Warmain nonsense
sleek socket
well more specifically they convince yo to divest yourself from the entire universe
and then erase yourself from ever having existed in the first place
because thats the only way that they can actually prevent heaven from reaching you
i was definitely thinking of it as a deceiver thing
frank light
Yeah that’s some classic Jenna nonsense
Hedge the fang does this sort of thing too and he has just the deceiver statline
sleek socket
Yeah that’s some classic Jenna nonsense
the most jenna nonsense part of this is that the creatures which do this dont even have a name
they have specifically erased their own names from existence as well
and instead people just call them Echthroi, the Enemy
frank light
Jenna would give them gothic names or something and say “their only flaw is that in some way or another they exist”
That’s what she did with hedge the fang
sleek socket
they do believe that, yes
frank light
Who’s failing/flaw is that he has a semblance of a self
sleek socket
their hope is to finally and one day allow entropy to erase themselves
frank light
When he tries to erase your self sometimes you can define that you are not hedge
And he gets all pissy about it
sleek socket
because they are the shadow of someone that has already erased themself
sleek socket
they choose to have no names because then you cannot pray for them
most normal Excrucian
fleet harbor
Excrucians are very strange individuals
frank light
Serpent who says “I was in the Bible once”
“…the garden?”
“What? No!!! I was the stick! The walking stick!!!”
frank light
The lifepath section is SO good
sleek socket
ok I am definitely going with my Imperator idea from yesterday as a true god
patent tiger
One note about true gods is that they’re local - so a true god of various forms of normalcy implies that those things are only relevant on earth
sleek socket
Thinking of the domains Normal, Geometry, Right Angles, Needing To Wake Up Early In the Morning Tomorrow, Employment
sleek socket
One note about true gods is that they’re local - so a true god of various forms ...
yessss
patent tiger
Which I think makes sense for various meanings of normalcy, honestly
sleek socket
this is correct
||particularly because it's a mimic in which the blasphemy that normal cannot exist is hidden||
||To be normal is to be nothing||
I'm sure that's probably fine
Trying to think of other "normal" estates
fleet harbor
Vanilla
sleek socket
LMAO TRUE
fleet harbor
Which is, in fact, Ru's mimic estate
frank light
Eudonia is a great mimic imperator
fleet harbor
Karen has a mimic game that Ru and I and Derp and Fluffy are in
frank light
She’s trying her fucking best out here
fleet harbor
Our mimic imperator's estates are Vanilla (Ru), Vacuum (me), Friendship (Sasha), and News.
So those four estates are all mimic estates
sleek socket
I'm sure that's fine
commencement where you get given a job application but it's already filled out
fleet harbor
Notably, all of our powers joined up knowing our Imperator was an enemy of Creation
sleek socket
Amazing
patent tiger
Our mimic imperator's estates are Vanilla (Ru), Vacuum (me), Friendship (Sasha),...
Friendship being another strong candidate for toxically mundane, honestly
Now, that being said
As someone who does think it’s best when players get to define their own estates
One source of juice in this is that choosing an estate is making it ordinary
Salt as an estate of a normalcy imperator transforms salt into a more mundane thing
sleek socket
Oh I'm not gonna tell my players precisely what to do for their estates just that it's gotta be Normal and Mundane
and to be aware of that
like picking Fire isn't a bonfire it's Grilling at. Cookouts
patent tiger
(As opposed to Salt as a Gamer estate, where it is now something that drives men mad at a taste and inspire the cruelest of ambitions)
sleek socket
The juice of this is also the sort of like
Impossibility of ever actually being normal
patent tiger
Yeah
fleet harbor
Ru's Power of Vanilla has 5 persona and is an absolute menace
sleek socket
the imperator has a guise which is just incredibly off putting because it is the statistical average of a human
fleet harbor
(My Power of Vacuum has 5 treasure and is an absolute menace in a different way)
sleek socket
Which includes 1.9 eyes
fleet harbor
But yes we love mimics in this house
patent tiger
They’re on the right side of history
frank light
But yes we love mimics in this house
I love mimics a lot yes
sleek socket
Sadly I wouldn't be able to actually run this game for like a month because of my schedule
frank light
Gk’s pc, the power of vacuum
fleet harbor
Sadly I wouldn't be able to actually run this game for like a month because of m...
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jOvkRA7-9x9IFZB4n5_-wifKcpBDAnMOCYBUpnuIPkk/edit?tab=t.0 If it provides any insight, here's a transcript of some of the opening scenes, lore, and character sheets from Karen's game. I keep meaning to do story 1 and 2, which are wrapped.
sleek socket
Tjank!!!
gloomy oasis
Gk’s pc, the power of vacuum
They look like they suck /j
fleet harbor
The dog is Laika.
The space dog.
Also one of the estate properties of Vacuum is "scares dogs" (Laika is exempt, however).
frank light
I adore it so much
obsidian dagger
Roger Rabbit is Reality Syndrome. He looks like Creature of Fable but he’s Reality Syndrome.
sleek socket
This shape is little more than a guise adopted so that your mind can process the awe inspiring and mind bending truth of being normal which wells up inside you. She possesses a skin the colour of flesh, eyes with pupils like irises, 1.9 arms, 1.92 eyes, 5.3 right hand fingers, and 4.6 left hand fingers. Probably, she has legs, that would be quite normal. But you haven't seen them. This is the average human, you think. So average, so normal. You cannot recall her face. It is just that average. In a crowd of one, she cannot stand out.```it's definitely fine
hollow spruce
Oh yeah mimic game is a ton of fun
Karavans Lux is fun to play because I just get to be an asshole deciever at the party and have spent most of the plot fucking off to do my own thing
got to kill the world a little too (it deserved it)
sleek socket
Karavans Lux is fun to play because I just get to be an asshole deciever at the ...
How have you all been running the game?
frank light
I’m da gm
sleek socket
like terms of character interactions/session style
true......
i should ask you Karen
Same question redirect
i am interested in running my own game, and would like probilis advice
frank light
Feel free to ask!!!! Though I’m about to be busy so…ping me in like 40 ish minutes?
hollow spruce
Karavans Lux is fun to play because I just get to be an asshole deciever at the ...
Those Employed Under The Villainy Of Karavans Lux...
○ Are numerous and interchangeable
○ Don symbols and masks
○ Are intensely loyal to Karavans Lux
○ Never suffer long-term consequences
○ Have impeccable comedic timing
○ Cannot defeat a main character
👍 👍 🫡
hollow spruce
though in Karavans last appearance she had a breakdown in front of the Noble she thinks is the only Real thing she has ever encountered (and is really really normal about)
fleet harbor
We've got two deceivers who hang out with the familia
fleet harbor
like terms of character interactions/session style
It's a mix of live text and PBP, where we all try to contribute on a schedule but then we can go beyond that when we so desire.
narrow tartan
I was part of the game for a while. But ended up dropping it because of a mixture of anxiety and poor orginizational skills
Karen was a great hollyhock god and the other players were amazing
frank light
weh
hollow spruce
Got prompted for 'what's your noble's 'area' in their chancel like?', so
The realm of the Apex of Cliffs forms a scar across the chancel, a sun-scorched badlands of oppressive heat, exposed stone and calcified sand weaved with abandoned strips of asphalt, metal and concrete, the earth cracked and rended open into wide canyons.
Beyond the poor sinners placed under the rule of Cliffs, grown weathered, dark and wiry in their existence against the harsh elements, the desert also hosts a manner of hard-shelled and even-footed creatures, well suited to the sheer drops and drought. The Noble cares little for the trappings of civilization, but it persists here nonetheless in a scattering worn out little town of mudstone and sheetmetal, homes carved and built into jagged walls. The cliffs themselves stand with a manner of grand self-assurance - they remain proud and uncompromising.
Shrines, always placed where the noon sun can reach them, are decorated with clean bones and occasionally offered small tithes of water. But to survive and live here at all is generally considered offering enough - the Lord, like its home of choice, is harsh, callous, and consistent.
so good
vivid wraith
patent tiger
Huh!
vivid wraith
and that's why your imperator has the estates of Euphoria, Sufferings, and Ferrets
narrow tartan
nodnod
narrow tartan
Imperator who is wracked by guilt for not living up to own unhinged moral precepts
obsidian dagger
...I think that's like 50% of angels at least.
frank light
33% technically.
If we’re marking the fallen
restive ridge
Excrucian core
narrow tartan
...I think that's like 50% of angels at *least*.
I always imagined angels as being. More self assured
frank light
I think only the fallen are really going through that whole suffering thing
narrow tartan
And angel morality though somewhat absolutist doesnt seem too weird
frank light
Angels in general are well suited towards their own ideals
vivid wraith
ability 1
obsidian dagger
True! Divine Warrant insulates them from their own rules.
fleet harbor
Hm I gotta think about estate properties for endings
"... are inevitable." is an easy one.
fleet harbor
"find all things"
fleet harbor
Not sure that's the vibe I'd go for, but I'll think about em
patent tiger
They're half vibes, half defining a toolkit
[act without remorse] has strong Enchantment potential in my eyes
obsidian dagger
"...cannot be undone." perhaps?
fleet harbor
Solid! I’ve been thinking about that question in light of how endings often do get undone, or at least revealed not to have been endings.
obsidian dagger
I think that if something happens later, than evidently they were neve an ending to begin with.
fleet harbor
Yeah, which is interesting from a Power's perspective
So yeah, I think cannot be undone is good for Causing Me Problems
obsidian dagger
...also I have a stupid idea randomly bouncing around in my head about a Noble who keeps being mistaken for a death god or something and has to keep explaining that no, they're just the Power of Scythes.
fleet harbor
XD
Hm, maybe some internal mythology of "... have yet to arrive." with reference to The Big Ending.
obsidian dagger
Ooh. That almost feels like the sort of thing a pState would have? But it works for a real Estate also.
fleet harbor
Yeah see I'm not sure
Like, I think it's a cool idea
And it has Persona potential
Ooh! "... are planted at the beginning."
Although I'm not sure how I would actually use that
narrow tartan
sleek socket
... Unexpected?
fleet harbor
I don't think that's a defining characteristic of endings. They can be unexpected, but they're not by their nature.
… are inevitable.
… find all things.
… shape memory.
… cannot be undone.
This might even be enough on its own, although I'd love to drop in some kind of allusion to the End Of The World.
sleek socket
... Open to interpretation
fleet harbor
That could work!
I'm challenging myself by having this be for a high-Persona character (not my usual playstyle), so I do want to give some thought to usability, as Ru noted.
Inevitable is easy, find all things can be used to help find things or cloud the senses, shape memory can do a bunch of scary stuff, cannot be undone can be used to seal things or potentially to undo them
narrow tartan
Lupe's sword was kind of cool
frank light
> … are inevitable.
> … find all things.
> … shape memory.
> … cannot be undone....
Transform
or invoke transformation
fleet harbor
Yeah, that makes sense.
"... cause transformation" is an absolutely wild estate property
frank light
"... cause transformation" is an absolutely wild estate property
It is but honestly I think it’s perfect
sleek socket
I definitely feel like "normal cannot be seen" is a strong statt
frank light
Like it works
Endings transform
Either those they’re inflicted upon (ending the stages of their life) or those who bear witness (reading a story changes you, grief transforms you)
fleet harbor
It does
Even The Big Ending hypothetically transforms in the sense that it turns something into nothing.
frank light
Yeah
fleet harbor
"... annihilate."?
frank light
Maybe
sleek socket
that feels too unsubtle
fleet harbor
Not sure about that one.
frank light
To be honest I think that death existed before this serpent
But
The idea of mourning and grief didn’t
This serpent finally brought in the ability to say it’s over
To say there is an ending
fleet harbor
Yeah
frank light
That there is closure
sleek socket
i was just about to say ...bring closure
fleet harbor
Put the chairs on the tables, turn off the lights, and walk out the door.
sleek socket
since that can be interpreted so many ways as a power
frank light
It’s over
sleek socket
Calling for the ending to an open door by bringing closure and removing all entrances to the room
frank light
You can start something new, after an ending
sleek socket
I think if I do end up playing nobilis as a player rather than HG i do finally have an idea for the estate id like to run btw
which is Sparrows
frank light
Oh?
fleet harbor
Put the chairs on the tables, turn off the lights, and walk out the door.
There's a great little Vertigo comic, Books of Magic — it eventually became a less great series — written by Gaiman (ugh), where towards the end the main character is taken forwards in time to meet Death as she appears in the Sandman, which I'm paraphrasing here.
sleek socket
Oh?
Sparrows...
are always within your senses.
are uncountably many.
can be found anywhere.
are one from many.
are unnoticed unless they wish to be seen.
frank light
Oh makes sense
fleet harbor
That there is closure
How do we like "... close the door" rather than "... bring closure"?
frank light
I think that works
sleek socket
a dollar bill is Sparrows
frank light
Close the door is great
fleet harbor
Alright, that's 6 properties.
sleek socket
a dollar bill is Sparrows
- uncountably many
- one from many
is this a sparrow?
fleet harbor
Probably enough, I think maybe close the door is the one that gets 2 points.
fleet harbor
@patent tiger I'd like to think I've done you proud for creating an absolutely nuts set of properties to use with Persona >_>
frank light
Persona 4 aspect 4 you know you want to
fleet harbor
I am tempted!
The thing is that I also want a bunch of gifts, and Persona 5 is very sexy
patent tiger
Persona 4 aspect 4 you know you want to
Sacrifice is important here imo
Remove [cause transformation] from an effect and now it cannot tangibly change anything
Remove [cannot be undone] for even more potential
This is a solid list
fleet harbor
I'd love to pick up the trio of Durant, Elusive, and Immutable because they just feel kinda fitting to me?
And Soul-Carving Sword.
frank light
I'd love to pick up the trio of Durant, Elusive, and Immutable because they just...
You could have a weird immutable
Kinda like the girl who can feed on her own anger
candid compass
And Soul-Carving Sword.
it is very handy to have