Jenna Moran Games (Nobilis, Chuubo's, Glitch, WTF)

[fleet harbor]

Lore and Flore really seems like a fun combination in that they're operating on different frequencies

But they're kinda similar

As opposed to Flore and Wyrd where they are almost directly opposed and a character with a high number in both is gonna have a very bad time

[candid compass]

I have really high Eide and Flore in our game

And basically nothing else lmao

[fleet harbor]

Eide and Flore seem like they would conflict less

[fleet harbor]

Look 1-2 really high stats, dump the rest, is a proud Nobilis tradition

[candid compass]

I have 6 Eide and 7 Flore
And then 1 Wyrd, and 0 Lore and Ability 😛

[fleet harbor]

Yes this is how it should be

[frank light]

his ass is not enlightened

[candid compass]

Flore has been very good though

As long as you have a treasure for the task, you can do almost anything

[fleet harbor]

IIRC in one of Jenna's playtest games which there were records of, she had a player who was the mythical Ability 7/Eide 0/Lore 0/Wyrd 0/Flore 0 strategist

[frank light]

technically having a high number in both is a sign of enlightenment

since at high levels of wyrd you start letting go of your earthly ideas

including giving up the whole notion of how the war works

like lower levels you lean into your hatred of the world

but at high levels it transforms into ambivalence

so a high flore/wyrd character can be a sort of bodhisattva

[fleet harbor]

Ah, so it's less that you have two conflicting drives and more that your two drives allow you to care about things without being attached to them

[frank light]

full of love and mercy for the world but enlightened beyond it

[fleet harbor]

See now I want to play some version of this character

[candid compass]

High Wyrd transcends its attachment to Creation

Fittingly it's the level where you can Unfetter for free

[frank light]

wyrd 3 is like "you have found your identity poisoned"
wyrd 4 is "you have transformed your hatred of creation into a weapon"
wyrd 5 is "nothing works this war is a joke the world is a joke everything hurts"
wryd 6 is "...actually i dont care i dont need to let this affect me"
wyrd 7 is "The self is an illusion."

yeah

[fleet harbor]

Flore 6/Wyrd 6 start, character on the verge of hitting enlightenment

[frank light]

wyrd 6 you can unfetter for free

yeah lmao

[fleet harbor]

Fuck

[frank light]

you have "ETERNAL" and "POTENTIATE"

[fleet harbor]

I really want to play this

[frank light]

flore and wyrd titles respectively

yeah its pretty cool lmao

[candid compass]

Also a fun thing of high Flore
It's been really fun just crafting and building things

[frank light]

Flore 5 Wyrd 6
Glorious + Immutable

you can have a glorious appearance and literally be detached from earthly desires

[candid compass]

Much like the World Weaver fluff says, you can build and do almost anything
You just need time

[frank light]

you cant starve to death, you cant experience extreme sleep deprivation, you cant drown

strategists are really fun depending on what level is their highest

at lore 7 they become a sort of imperator/like being

not in the creational sense

but in the sense that they are a being who can declare a certain category of divine law

they are a rule of the void, indistinguishable from the void

they are a living portal and crucible for it and the things that live within it

[fleet harbor]

See that's why Lore and Flore would also be a fun pair

[frank light]

here are all the level 7's

Lore 7 and flore 7 does mean you are on some WILD shit

[fleet harbor]

Hm, thinking about this, first thoughts: almost kind of a riff on Robin, once a much happier young magician who is now Dying of Magic, and who after some initial war stuff mostly left it behind and submerged themselves in the mundane world of everyday people in Creation as well as, when they could, out on the rolling hills of Ninuan. Has gotten very weird and prone to koans in the process.

For a long time they were kinda in conflict with their own Eide

[frank light]

ooo

[fleet harbor]

And so Eide 0

[candid compass]

The big thing my character still has to reckon with with Flore is that loving the world doesn't make it any less Wrong or painful, or make it stop killing you
In some regards its worse

[fleet harbor]

Yeah

[frank light]

the fun thing about eide 0

is that it also means your eide is chaotic and unformed

it could be anything

[fleet harbor]

To some extent she went to the mundane world to try to stay as far away from magic as possible

[frank light]

because it isnt any one thing right now

it is unable to be decided on

so you also have the ability to justify a character with a fluid identity

[fleet harbor]

Yeah, I think she's been kinda afraid historically that her eide is the Dark Sorcerer

[frank light]

lmAO

thats really fun

discovering your eide is something you dont like is really funny

and valid!

a good source for emptiness arcs

[fleet harbor]

But at this point her Eide could very well be the weird bodhisattva who spurns the wondrous and miraculous

She has not engaged with it yet

Possibly a point of Ability?

She has engaged with the mundane pretty heavily even if it's painful and difficult

So like Ability 1/Flore 6/Wyrd 6

[frank light]

mhm mhm

[fleet harbor]

Gotta think about the significance of Lore 0

[frank light]

i think you might need to

lower one of your stats

to afford ability 1

[narrow tartan]

I concluded my PFP should have high wyrd

[frank light]

ability is EXPENSIVE for strategists

[candid compass]

Low ability can be fun in its own way

[fleet harbor]

Oh wait for some reason the math was not working right in my brain

[candid compass]

It's funny that you can effortlessly work miracles, but a slight bit of effort in a mundane way is already too much

[fleet harbor]

Well fuck, Ability 0 it is >_>

[vivid wraith]

nice nice

[candid compass]

Well 0 Lore means you are alienated from Ninuan in a way

You cannot even perceive it easily outside your sanctuary

[frank light]

high wyrd means you are solidly a void being

but low lore means that you lack a different kind of enlightenment

[fleet harbor]

I think maybe she's avoided it for reasons similar to why she's avoided her own Eide?

[frank light]

something more...sorcerous

mhm mhm

that would make sense

[fleet harbor]

She's afraid of her own sphere

[frank light]

a misapprehension about the nature of Lore is also like...common for those at low lore

cus understanding your sphere and what it actually is is what leveling up lore is

[fleet harbor]

So in some ways her sphere is what she fears about herself in Ninuan, and her eide is what she fears about herself in Creation

But at the same time she's got a deep attunement to Ninuan and Creation as a whole

[candid compass]

IIRC Lore 0 is also the level where you often still conceptualise Ninuan as just a different sort of place
Outside the world, but still... trapped in a sort of creational mindset

[frank light]

i can pull it up

[fleet harbor]

Yeah, she doesn't want to let Ninuan or Creation tell her to be a wizard again, essentially

Since she's dying of magic

And actually getting to Eide 1 and Lore 1 might be more central to her arc than getting to 7 in Wyrd and Flore

[frank light]

nodnod

lore 1 has the line

It is the home of their
heart but not the home of their head—priceless, but
incomprehensible

you can see and perceive ninuan, navigate it

[fleet harbor]

Which does fit pretty well

[frank light]

but your knowledge is outdated or forgotten

Strategists at this level of Lore are inalienably connected
to Nınuan, but also profoundly unfamiliar with it; much
of their knowledge of the place has been forgotten, and
what they do recall is out of date. It is the home of their
heart but not the home of their head—priceless, but
incomprehensible

[fleet harbor]

As she boosts the two stats, she becomes comfortable with her own existence in both Creation and the Not

[frank light]

mhm mhm

[fleet harbor]

Not deeply enmeshed with them, but no longer fearful

There's no such thing as an Ability gift, right?

Thinking about that last point

[frank light]

ability gifts can exist they just...arent recommended

i would argue Immutable would fit for a bodhisattva

[narrow tartan]

Strategist who doesnt think the world is real

[candid compass]

That's more Deceiver generally, but not implausible

[narrow tartan]

Views it as a dream he is trapped in.

Strategist dying of Joseph Cambell. Who thinks the world is something like a dream or story.

[fleet harbor]

Maybe. Could work as, "I suck at living in Creation or the Not and yet I persevere"

[frank light]

yeah

i view it as a sort of like

not having as many earthly desires

like you can be hungry but you wont ever starve

stuff like that

you can survive off of sunlight and air

you're a little bit above it all

just a tiny bit

[candid compass]

to most Strategists it generally comes down to
it doesn't matter if the world is real, or false, or anything else
it's Wrong

it shouldn't be the way it is

[frank light]

tbh i do think there can be overlap between strategist and deceiver ideology when it comes to specific ones

a deceiver who believes the world shouldnt be like this, that those inside it deserve better, that if it even is real it shouldnt be in the first place

or a strategists who thinks the world is a lie, a misapprehension, and awful terrible assumption

something that needs to be torn down

[candid compass]

you definitely can think the world is false or a lie
you just probably still want it to be destroyed anyway

[narrow tartan]

I know. Sorry

[candid compass]

no problem, just elaborating

[narrow tartan]

Ive read glitch I understand this. Specifically thinking about how a certain character would work as a strategist because he is soggy in a Strategiat way.

I just. To be clear I am not entirely ignorant of the metaphysics of jennas games.

[narrow tartan]

Sorry. Undoong what I can

[obsidian dagger]

my pithy understanding of Strategists is that they know the world is broken because they got caught on one of its sharp edges.

What are some good Strategist-coded characters from other works? The first one that's springing to mind for me is Joseph/Cartaphilus from The Ancient Magus' Bride.

Actually, the Wizard's Blue spinoff also has a kind of Strategist-coded character.

[frank light]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

this one doesnt notably have a bane but she does share the same omnicidal tendencies and arguments and general vibes of strategists

the lady bone demon from the god damn...lego monkie kid show

[obsidian dagger]

...I wonder if you could justify that one uhh child abuser dude from Fire Force.

(justify reading him as a Strategist, I mean.)

[frank light]

the whole "purify the world back to a blank slate because it is too incorrect to not be full of suffering" feels similar to the "destroy the world because it is wrong"

[obsidian dagger]

iiinteresting.

[magic mason]

That Rice Shower Horse Girl people keep posting but that is mostly because of outfit rather than ideology or powerset

looking through all the times I have said a charecter is strategist coded
So ummm I've got House MD, based entirely on random clips I saw on youtue shorts
Exalted Death Lords, like all of them
Malenia Elden ring

I know I have more of thesse but I can't think of them right now

[obsidian dagger]

Malenia Elden Ring feels more like she has Wounded Angel, at least to me? I can see the argument for Strategist coding, but I could see a stronger argument for Fallen Angel.

[magic mason]

Both are valid definitly

Fallen have blasphemies but Strategists have shattering, so they can both do the natural disaster upon damaged too much thing

[obsidian dagger]

Yeah, but Malenia otherwise feels more Fallen-coded? Like, Allegory is not wrong for her.

And Wounded Angel feels better when the Rot is explicitly not her, but an entity imprisoned within her body.

[magic mason]

I filled that space with Eide and Flore, but ur right it does work quite well

Strategists are basically the secret third type of angel anyhow

[obsidian dagger]

Also, the Haligtree in general is kind of Hell-coded.

[vivid wraith]

hey she has a bad luck thing that inconveniences herself and others, that's plenty strategist

[obsidian dagger]

...I need to get back to Undead Unluck but I'm realizing an argument could be maybe made for all of the Negators.

[frank light]

so true

[magic mason]

King ISAT is a bit strategist

usually I want him to have Reality syndrome though

[obsidian dagger]

have people here read Ancient Magus' Bride? Because Cartaphilus really seems like a high Lore Strategist.

[magic mason]

Unfortunately I have not

[obsidian dagger]

You should. Chise is also a very Wounded Angel protag.

A lot of her powers feel like Empowered Wounds, but her Blasphemy isn't 100% clear, oddly.

[magic mason]

could be an emotional thing

[obsidian dagger]

Also I finally got to checking this song out. I'm not sure if it's Impresario? I could kinda see it, but I could also see Star Quality, Prophet, or even Awakening. But probably mostly Star Quality?

[magic mason]

That is fair
Internally I kinda focus a lot on the Desmene with Impersario and having that sort of "Conviction filled scheme"

Star Quality Definitly fits very well

[obsidian dagger]

I focus... probably too much... on the minions. I think... I think that the right way that I should look at Impresario is as... well, Sickly Purple; they show up and declare you to be their ally. Sentimental absolutely also gets to show up, point to someone, and declare some fact about them because you care about them, but Impresario's more... intrusive?

Like, I think it's part of how Warmains do their Tempering.

[obsidian dagger]

The other very Impresario-coded character IMO is Mamizou Futatsiuwa from Touhou specifically in the manga. She inserts herself into friend groups and summons an assortment of tanuki underlings with a snap of her fingers.

[restive ridge]

Julian Coseley

Captain Ahab

[narrow tartan]

The Batter from OFF?

[restive ridge]

Yes

[grand knot]

Yeah
Could create some weird realm of Is and Not

[obsidian dagger]

Would a Gamelord of Shadows, Caves, Red Ochre, and Storytelling be too on-the-nose about the association of domains? And would they be Game, or Rules?

[frank light]

i mean it makes sense

it works

gamelords and ruleslords can be weeeeird

the main important bit is the game focuses on freedom, self destruction, or the worst parts of being human

ruleslords focus on ideologies, life, and generally the best parts of being human

but like

sometimes those have overlap

jenna had an example of this with Garbage

being either a rules or a game estate

rules because it lets humans collect and dispose of detritus

or game because it represents human trash habits

you can ...get weird

you can interpret one estate in many ways for different imperator types

[obsidian dagger]

The core concept uniting all four is like... humans huddling in caves around a fire, telling stories and painting them on the walls. Like... the first stories.

[frank light]

mhm mhm

that could be rules or the game

rules in the beauty of creation and artwork

or game in the sense of freedom

game loves self destruction and the worst parts of being human but it also loves freedom

[obsidian dagger]

...honestly though "the cave where humans told the first story" feels like a Prophet-style locational treasure.

[frank light]

and people characterize the rules as stiff, but the rules love art as well

they love the best parts of being human

the light of ourselves, without the grime of living

[obsidian dagger]

to quote Ave Xia Rem Y (and it took me longer than it should have to find this quote):

“The first stories were told through shadows[...] Shadow around a fire. Shadows on the walls of caves. We use puppets because people are used to puppet shows, but this is the true way.”

[narrow tartan]

I feel like its a better fit for game.

[obsidian dagger]

I think I agree

[narrow tartan]

I might leave caves off from the estate list.

[obsidian dagger]

Makes sense.

[grand knot]

Asphodel in Mourning

Fire is the aspect of passion and optimism. Fire sees the world as fundamentally fungible, all things either fuel to its fire, or ashes to fertilize the ground after its passing; it is only through the constant action of its will that it keeps itself, and the world, alive.[...] Those with too little Fire are plagued by nihilism and cannot find joy even in what matters to them, while those with too much Fire are so consumed by hope they cannot pause to acknowledge their own pain and grief.

[frank light]

Me

[narrow tartan]

Ooh whats that for?

[grand knot]

https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/asphodel-in-mourning-a-disco-elysium-inspired-pokémon-quest.129103/post-31970070

[fleet harbor]

And tbh sometimes an Imperator’s estates just don’t make a whole lot of sense for their type and that’s fine

The Imperator is a god, and the way the laws that are its bones relate to that god can be slightly inscrutable sometimes

[frank light]

Yeah

[fleet harbor]

It’s kinda interesting to think that maybe before the Big War maybe imperators did not pay a ton of attention to their estates

[narrow tartan]

It probably depends on the type of Imperator

[narrow tartan]

Though. I guess they might not have thought of them as distinct things?

[obsidian dagger]

like, distinct from themselves? That's very possible. Especially for true gods. Which would imply that setting up imperators would be like shrinking down people to help out inside your body.

I'm thinking about my arcs as songs again, and I feel like something from Marina and the Diamonds should be Orange because a lot of her songs sound like they're about constructed identity in that sort of way? But I'm not sure which would be best. I'm currently considering How to Be a Heartbreaker for Become Somebody but it might not be right?

[frank light]

you mean powers?

[obsidian dagger]

...yes. Not sure why I typed imperators there. Weird crossed wires.

[vivid wraith]

In every way Commencement is like a magic school bus shrink ray episode

[frank light]

true

i do think true gods tend to perceive their powers weirdly

in 3e its stated that they tend to...grow inside you

and communicate mainly through that

because their estates are fundamentally more of their body, a power (the guardian and fundamental expression of that estate) is probably, from their perspective, more of their body that can think for itself

and the way you, as a noble, tend to get more connection and understanding of your true god, is by letting them expand their growth within you and become something symbiotic

[narrow tartan]

Imperators needing someone to explain to them how their bone systems work

[vivid wraith]

Just like me fr

[narrow tartan]

"They covered this in health class but didn't realize it would be important in day to day life"

...true god sex ed

[obsidian dagger]

I'm tempted to make a joke about how, for true gods, all education is sex education, but I can't make it work.

[grand knot]

Existence replacement therapy
Replace Is with Not

[patent tiger]

That's been happening in my Glitch game

[fleet harbor]

Robin perks up "Oh! I! Think I've done some work that might be relevant to that! Lemme get my notes."

[candid compass]

one of the PCs has been doing this to save someone who has been Glitched yeah

[obsidian dagger]

I'm imagining a character who persistently ends up like... drowning in whispers? This is a weird thing to say, I know. I'm not sure if they overhear more and more conversations of people around them, or if they start involuntarily reading people's minds, but either way it's just... overwhelming, in an Accursed sort of way.

[magic mason]

Ooooo yeah that is very accursed

[obsidian dagger]

I think it starts as them overhearing what other people are saying and moves onto mind-reading in a sort of vague way they don't always notice? But there's only one quiet place for them. Anywhere else they go, they can hear people somewhere.

for some reason I imagine their sanctuary as like. A little side room in a library. It could be somewhere in the wilderness but for some reason a library room feels more correct. Maybe I'm inspired by third party sources.

I also have this vivid idea for an accursed dryad whose sanctuary is the bookstore made from the trees that were once their home.

(like, the books are, not the building itself.)

[narrow tartan]

Gold, Blue, and Orange miraculous arcs have shared mechanical features

[fleet harbor]

So K-Pop Demon Hunters

Is a movie about K-Pop Demon Hunters

But it also has weirdly strong Song of Hell vibes

[vivid wraith]

ohohoho?

[restive ridge]

Huh yeah it does a bit

I wouldnt say really that strong but it definitely does

[fleet harbor]

There's some amount of "dueling views of Hell" towards the end

[restive ridge]

Yes

[magic mason]

Fallen angels

[restive ridge]

Yeah

[patent tiger]

Me

[restive ridge]

Ru that shit is always visible

[patent tiger]

No I went eek and tripped and fell

[restive ridge]

I did not enjoy making this image;I do not expect anyone to get enjoyment out of it, I simply believed it would have eventually been created at some point and I wished to be its conduit

[vivid wraith]

thank u morgana extremely good

[narrow tartan]

I know not what this is from

[vivid wraith]

The horsegirl gacha game

[frank light]

correct placement

[patent tiger]

Serpents cannot be horses, as it should be

[restive ridge]

No fucking horse here is a Serpent none of them chill for a sec

Maybe Haru but even then its funnier to say she's a Strategist

[vivid wraith]

they got that dog (anti-serpent dog) in them

[fleet harbor]

I dunno, I was thinking she doesn't quite fit, and it would be pretty funny if she were Actually The Only One in Serpents >_>

The only three I know anything about are her, Tachyon (yep, definitely strategist), and Gold Ship (yep, definitely Actual)

[narrow tartan]

I feel like horses and serpents are remarkably similar

[obsidian dagger]

I don't disagree, but that sentence is so ridiculous without context.

[narrow tartan]

Noble Steve Irwin picking up and gendering a Serpent

[narrow tartan]

Is there an arc for having one closely bonded creature?

[fleet harbor]

Sentimental could do it

Called Away is interesting because of the Shadow

[frank light]

Same with gatekeeper

Since it has the legendary relic thingy

That could be a powerful spirit

[narrow tartan]

Interesting.

horse girl is a legitimate concept for a miraculous arc

[fleet harbor]

Hm … Wounded/Vastness/Wanderer/Lore would be fun

definitely not the arcset for Jen + Gatekeeper

Or I guess Vastness/Wanderer/Wounded/Lore if we’re paying attention to the sequence convention

[frank light]

LMAO

[fleet harbor]

Look it would actually work as an arcset for cases where you somehow have an Imperator inside of a person

[frank light]

it would

[fleet harbor]

Call them “Hosts” or something

[narrow tartan]

Sequence convention?

[patent tiger]

I have now watched K-Pop Demon Hunters, and, yup, that very much had the Nobilis Hell ethos

Good touchstone for that

[frank light]

Huh! Perhaps I have to check it out

[patent tiger]

Specifically the schtick with main boy band guy and the musical number he gets at the end are very strong for that

It's also pretty good overall, I'm happy I watched it, but it had very specifically the Nobilis "hell is with you at your most wretched and it makes you worse and it will never let you go, and this is how it loves you" dimension in spades

[frank light]

YESSSS GOOOOD

perfect

[narrow tartan]

The Grungler is the Wildlord of Gender. Gritty and fhe Lorax are some of his kids

[narrow tartan]

Bluh. The world is wrong.

[obsidian dagger]

stupid idea: Gatecrasher whose devices are their exes.

[fleet harbor]

||In general I thought Rumi's final resolution was also very Hell-coded in a different way, to the point that she and Gwi Ma ended up representing dueling interpretations of a similar posit||

[vestal mist]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1070203710396977232/1395717138043375656/image.png?ex=687b7660&is=687a24e0&hm=86eee20f56520e88ae43ef4d06b84a74278e1236e2752561973659cd6fa7bcc8&

[fleet harbor]

I've written this

The first agony is in our bones. Bone is described as partially composed of metalloid substance, and we feel it crack and split apart from internal pressure as our marrow explosively multiplies, than rebuild itself into a variant alloy of high-speed steel that includes its constituent calcium carbonate. The number of our bones additionally doubles, and we scream even through our half-consciousness as our skin and muscles strain to keep pace with the expansion.

This phase of the transformation comprises 31.4 seconds of subjective time. At it's completion we are approximately four meters tall, bulging, twisting, red and purple, but still humanoid discounting the enormous lumps that have begun to form in the position of our shoulder blades.

The screaming is interspersed with begging as the second phase commences, both to the empty air and to a nonexistent higher power, as our organs begin to fail, in particular our heart and brain, overtaxed by our new scale and lack of sufficient blood. Our greatly expanded marrow begins to correct this error with the production of Phase 3 blood, which carries particulate nanomaterial to our organs, allowing their expansion, rebuilding, and recombination. At 71.8 seconds of total transformation time, we weakly invoke Aoede by her secondary appellation, Dee, followed by Nolan Nolan, Melanie King, Georgie Barker, the Prince under the appellation "Mandibles", Rosie, and then a repetition of the name Dee.

These requests for aid are ineffective and last another 42.3 seconds, by which point the gearwork of our joints has been sufficiently constructed to allow appropriate reconfiguration of our skin and muscles into a position that allows them to turn more freely, as well as expose them to the open air, in which capacity they serve as a heatsink for our rapidly elevating body temperature.

At 134.1 seconds, we briefly cease vocalization and collapse.

At 144.1 seconds, we regain full consciousness and continue to scream, but more faintly.

At 150 seconds, configuration is complete and the last of our screams die down. We stand and assess our new form. Data from this period is incomplete, but indicates self-perception as:

• A 432 centimeter tall humanoid with biological limb segments connected by clockwork joints, with black-hued Phase 4 skin;
• Three pairs of visibly mechanical wing structures, with a black-hued Phase 4 skin membrane stretched across them and a partial covering of polymerized flight feathers, extruding from the rear of our torso;
• Green-glowing Eyes 2 which can perceive all physical and supernatural spectra;
• 200 centimeter strands of weaponized prehensile autocable hanging from our scalp; and,
• General surprise at awareness of the specificity of our current capabilities.

As this was the initial transformation, full configuration into the 108-meter non-humanoid model was deemed inadvisable.

Well, okay, not "looking like a normal magical girl at the end"

[narrow tartan]

Wild Lord ganking another Imperator because she thinks that certain estates are obscuring their self discovery

[grand knot]

This reminds me of serpent and stag from mage the awakening
They are the aeons of spirit and life
Their names are titles, they are frequent shapeshifters, and it's believed each is actually an ecosystem in their realm, closely entwined to each other

They haven't been detailed, but are interesting

Some aeons had descriptions of personalities and what they usually get up to

Zahhak (mind and space) is a cruel arrogant sadist who if you just comply with, will ask more and more degrading sacrifices of what you care about

Azazel (Forces) wants you to champion causes. Lilith (Prime) wants to help you seek your potential and chase your goals, your Will

[narrow tartan]

I vaguely remember most of them being jerks. Except for tje one representing the Abyss?

[acoustic night]

good ol' Old Man

"please don't make a deal with the abyss." says he

[grand knot]

Yeah, Typhon, Merdraut and Zahhak are jerks

[tall jolt]

Whats wrong with Typhon and Merdraut?

Hasn't read Awakening

[grand knot]

Typhon from what I remember hates humans
His minions typhonids wander some sections of the anima mundi and attacks humans

[frank light]

Typhon also is a giant golden snake that can ignore immortality and hates being disrespected- oh wait

[grand knot]

Merdraut, ho boy
He pops up across gamelines, he really gets around
He offers a deal: You get to achieve one thing you want
Sounds neat right?
Except it will be ruined or rendered meaningless
This mirrors the fate of camelot

[tall jolt]

ah, monkeys paw

[grand knot]

Reference to what?

[vivid wraith]

froofs/chuubo's

[grand knot]

I gotta check how douchey gloriana and echidna are

[frank light]

and glitch and nobilis!

she's a golden whip in those

[grand knot]

Oh she came out? Good for her

[frank light]

typhon's always been sorta a girl in nobilis and glitch and chuubos

Monstrous/Gorgon tbh has the greater transgender metaphor

since she changed her name between far roofs and glitch

[restive ridge]

Michael, AIoP&G&RaI&TAD& Acronyms

[restive ridge]

(Michael, Angelic Imperator of Purity, Grass, Rage against Injustice, the American Dream and Acronyms)

[frank light]

Wow

[obsidian dagger]

For some reason I'm thinking about a character whose voice always sounds like your own, separately, for each person who hears them, and that feels like the kind of random tidbit some Imperator or other would have.

maybe for a Gamer?

[candid compass]

@patent tiger
this feels like a Harmony moment

[patent tiger]

Yeah

[obsidian dagger]

question: does their voice sound like a recording of your voice, familiar yet uncanny? Or does it sound like your own voice in your ears as you speak, as it sounds to yourself?

[patent tiger]

Probably the latter, since it'd moreso be your brain "autofilling" the default voice it expects

In formal terms, Harmony's voice is a caption on reality, that your mind as a reader implicitly interprets as audio

[fleet harbor]

Harmony is very Actual-coded

[obsidian dagger]

I'm randomly thinking about Okina Matara, and I think she's an Imperator of Noh, Astronomy, Silkworms, and Back Doors, but I'm not sure if she's a Ruler or a Fallen Angel. Probably Ruler?

I think she has to be a ruler because... she's not about the stars. She's about astronomy, which is human study of the stars. And, yes, she includes silkworms, but I think that's in the sense of silk production moreso than as wild animals? They're very human things.

[narrow tartan]

I'm probably wrong. But. I would sum up the rule and the game simply.
The Rule is the best parts of humanity, but also the worst. The Game is the worst parts of humanity, but also the best.

[vivid wraith]

I think that's a fair bridge between their 2e portrayal and 3e portrayal

[narrow tartan]

nodnod

[magic mason]

https://www.tumblr.com/jennamoran/789800910741209088/i-do-think-that-if-the-plant-in-the-garden-of-eden

"Chuubo's Marvelous Wish-Granting Engine"

I _do_​ think that if the plant in the Garden of Eden that gave people the knowledge of good and evil was ginger that they would probably call it singer, or maybe original singer, and eventually over time so that people wouldn't confuse it all the time with people who singe things linguistic drift would turn it into sinchurch, and that would probably make the whole thing kind of weird. But on the other hand, if Adam and Eve _hadn't _​eaten the ginger, then in a few thousand years or whatever when the Roman Empire was at its height (though obviously there wouldn't be any people there, just wolves, considering, and the wolves wouldn't even be all that good at it) the ginger would probably develop a ginger spirit and come to life and run away and then because it would be the only thing that knew about good and evil it would ascend into the skies to steal God's throne, so that would be kind of bad too. In the end it's probably better that it was a red delicious apple because that really helped l...

Tumblr · Jul 22, 2025, 7:34 PM

[vivid wraith]

Really makes you think

[restive ridge]

Thank you Jenna

[magic mason]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCzUW38zv0E
Deceiver Song

[narrow tartan]

The patients of St. Unmari's Hospital for the Metaphysically Ill...

Unmary. Unnemary. Un Mary. Unne Mary. Mari or Mary?

Unn-Mari?

[obsidian dagger]

thinking about a very Hell-coded antagonist who wants to stop you from coming to terms with your past mistakes and atoning, because that might make you unhappy, and... actually I was going somewhere else with this but now I'm thinking about Omori.

But the original plan was just... how they react when you finally show up to fight them:

"Oh?  Do you want to fight me?  To hurt me?  Go ahead.  Hit me and kick me and cut me as much as you want.  Cause me all the pain your heart desires.  Don't worry; I will always forgive you."```

[candid compass]

the Ruleslord in our current Glitch game also does this

[candid compass]

@patent tiger
I think I remember this was part of Guinevile's shtick too?

[patent tiger]

Yup! She is kind of hell-coded, now that I think about it

Her Chancel is a realm of infinite fragility. Those who are consumed and cannot go on may find their way there, and brutalize everything within. With that bitter impulse sated, they may find some momentum to move on

A way to live, at every cost

[candid compass]

it's infuriating to deal with tbh

[patent tiger]

Mwehehehehe

It is my sworn duty as a me to cause frustration to all who know me

[narrow tartan]

I want to do science. Raise a child introducing them to the world of roleplay through WTF

Actually WTF would be too weird? Maybe? Hmm.

[vivid wraith]

Maybe not the full system, but the split GM is workable

ask the kid about their imaginary world while you take over one of the other duties

[narrow tartan]

nodnod

[gloomy oasis]

I don't think Werewolf the Forsaken is a good choice for kids

[frank light]

the children yearn for the wolves

[patent tiger]

Better than Apocalypse

[gloomy oasis]

I played Apocalypse as a kid and I wound up fine.

Other than occasional urges to disembowel fossil fuel company CEOs.

[narrow tartan]

Thats normal

[narrow tartan]

Hmm distinct language doesnt really exist in town. But. Not everyone can talk ro cats.

Maybe they knocked over tower of babel

[fleet harbor]

Yes this is good.

Cneph is a very large cat.

That’s why Creation is a tree.

And also why nobody can find Cneph.

God is stuck in a tree.

[frank light]

Lmao

So true

My Belief system now

[narrow tartan]

cneph is buried under zu mountains which is why their canonicity is in doubt

[fleet harbor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/426286410925080576/1391163896374755368/IMG_5736.jpg?ex=68873e17&is=6885ec97&hm=581861ecd353952bdf879fda1b11322b4074dea7fae8f5b873472a0ef444eb10&

[narrow tartan]

Rinley has found Cneph. Real friendly guy.

[fleet harbor]

Game advice: inexplicably give Rinley a cat named Cneph, never clarify what this means.

[fleet harbor]

It would be fun to be the power of something weird, like anemoia.

(Nostalgia for something that never was.)

[patent tiger]

Top ten Estates that incentivize you support the Excrucian cause

(Please do not ask why people are making clickbait top ten lists on Nobilis topics)

[fleet harbor]

It would be an extremely fitting mimic estate.

[restive ridge]

This MIGHT JUST be Nobilis

[vivid wraith]

lol

[frank light]

WHAT

[fleet harbor]

I'm so confused.

[vivid wraith]

Affliction 1: "I win as a street tier" vs Affliction 2: "The Yellow Brick Road furthers my quest"

[restive ridge]

Deku can beat anyone that is metaphysically on a "street" but Dorothy uses her Pstate to redefine the battlefield as being on the "Yellow Brick Road" which is a road not a street therefore allowing her to win

[narrow tartan]

The way of Aliss Lexigast...

...leads her to where it began.
...wriggles through time and space.
...transforma those who walk upon it.
...is hard for others to find and follow.```
Thats most of the properties

[fleet harbor]

oic

[grand knot]

Me: Jasper Irinka isn't much my vibe. I prefer miramie and seizhi, maybe rinley
Also me: makes ditzy cheery daughter of a sun goddess in another rpg

[frank light]

Jasper is so cute

I adore her

[vestal mist]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/481168746787110913/1399355509064077383/image0.jpg?ex=6888b2e0&is=68876160&hm=5479119bf3a5804e0c8d21dbd38b8aba7083b2bb4ea2db00c503d7325b0d16c7&

[frank light]

Yea it’s true

[narrow tartan]

The number of transgirl true gods is greater than you think

[frank light]

It’s true

[narrow tartan]

The town inside me~

[narrow tartan]

Defeated Akinator with Iolithae Septimian

[vivid wraith]

smh

get with the times, akinator

[frank light]

I have done this many times

[narrow tartan]

When I told him he did recognize the name

[magic mason]

Old hypothetical I came up with but still a fun one:

if your noble(or other god) could have 1 stat/miraclous arc changed to something that would be more clear for your vision of them, what would you change?

Hard mode: the stat you change has to be in the same row or column as what you change it too. So if you are getting rid of Wyrd you have to choose another silver or sickly arc to replace it

[restive ridge]

I'd take out the Arhitect of Actuals and give em Persona

[restive ridge]

When hb tryna hit the Ninuanni girl with "Ni hao, fine shyt" and I'm just like ru fr rn icl ts pmo rn and now I have to slime him

[frank light]

What

[narrow tartan]

When he be trying to hit the ninuani girl with "Ni hao, fine shyt" and I'm just like Ru for real right now ??? ?? piss me off right now and now I have to slime him

[frank light]

What

[restive ridge]

When he be (implied friend) tries to hit on the Ninnuani girl and I'm just are you for real right now, I cant lie this shit is pissing me off right now and now I have to kill him

[narrow tartan]

...okay I did not translate right

[frank light]

Oh okay

Thank you I completely understand

[vivid wraith]

To nobody's surprise, Labyrinth is extremely Far Roofs

[narrow tartan]

https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/imperator-quest-a-nobilis-inspired-quest.141938/

We must not let this die

Dang it it might already be dead.

[magic mason]

its so fucked up the spiderman villan goo monster lore starts with "Once Upon A Time A Nobilis Warmain made a Sword"

or is Knull more of a strategist?

[vestal mist]

Oh, yeah

Knull is very Jennacoded

[restive ridge]

Writing Nobilis 4e myself rn because it's taking too long

CHAPTER 1

hey guys it's me Cneph. Yeah,  THAT Cneph, yoi're probaply wondering where i've been. before we get ibto that craaaazy story, we need to go back to where this whole thing started....

*record scratch*

Nebraska, Usa

Am I cooking?

[frank light]

Lmao what

[fleet harbor]

I like the addition of the misspelled into

[frank light]

Yea

[restive ridge]

Something translated literally, from languages no longer in being, as "Silencemancy", but who some regretful monsters informed me ought to be better called Snow-Songs:
-Can only be practiced by those close to dying (1)
- Is a hybrid art of interior decoration and higher-block mathematics (1)
- Is only safe to perform far away from Death (1)
- Understands that the past and future are the same (1)
- Will allow us to remember the fallen  bricks of reality (1)
- Might have allowed us to bring them back too (1)
- Will be the first to be slain by the Vagrant-Kings of Nothing```
Thinking about dead estates

[narrow tartan]

I once came up with a relatively comprehensible dead estate. A direction of rotation known as "throughward".

[frank light]

Ooooo

[fleet harbor]

That's wonderfully dark.

[obsidian dagger]

I'm realizing that I made Gorgon... not exactly tied to a dead estate, but at least conceptually linked to one, where once there was a time where humans could ecdyse.

but then Gorgon got offered unto the Host, and now if you peel your skin off, you just die horribly.

[fleet harbor]

Just the implication that the first thing destroyed was Creation’s capacity to heal is such a deliciously brutal irony.

[restive ridge]

Would Goo Goo Babies, as an Estate, belong to a Fallen Angel or a Games Lord?

[vivid wraith]

Fallen

[fleet harbor]

The Woods is a Wildlord estate.

[fleet harbor]

It’s Woods Time For You

[obsidian dagger]

I feel like it is common for Gatecrashers to have, within their Secret World, a standard technique to detect other members of that secret world (which may or may not detect the Gatecrasher themself).

[vivid wraith]

Shirou does have that

[obsidian dagger]

I was just thinking that because I was thinking about cultivators and about how the jianghu is an archetypical hidden world and cultivators can, depending on the nature of a work, either sense qi or sense "killer intent" at a glance.

Frequently there is some way to hide from this detection... but "recognizing other members of the hidden world" is such a common thing.

[frank light]

Reminded of the fallen…

[narrow tartan]

Playgrounds are a battlefield between ghe Light and the Dark

[hollow spruce]

imitating the 3e sidebars for fun

Ratanak the Pitch, once a slain beast of legend that terrorized the wastes of Hell and now bearing the title of the Power Of Cliffs, is a cunning and brutish monster that values the ability to surmount a challenge above all else - when you are facing a cliff in your life, whether a literal mountain you must climb or on the precipice of a dramatic fall from grace, it may be watching and waiting, to see if you will fail or if you will earn its respect. 

For its ability to inhabit the manifestations of his estate, Ratanak has Persona 2.

[frank light]

Goooood shit

[fleet harbor]

There was an old PS-238 issue where a child expy of Elric of Melniborne showed up on the playground, and the main characters helped resolve the squabbling of Law and Chaos by introducing them to team sports.

[narrow tartan]

Heh.

Bloodbowl

[obsidian dagger]

I'm thinking about a Prophet who can reliably cook nostalgic meals. Sometimes without even knowing the recipient will find them nostalgic, just... letting their estate guide their actions and tell them what to cook.

And then it turns out to be something with some special emotional significance to the recipient, like, it's nostalgic or uses ingredients from their hometown or is somehow rife with symbolic meaning in a way that's deeply significant to their life.

I was also thinking of a restaurant in Arcadia probably run by such a Prophet, where you never actually see enough people and nobody ever takes your order, but you take a seat and after a while someone brings out food for you. And usually it's what you would have ordered but sometimes it's something more personally meaningful to you instead.

[narrow tartan]

Imperator keeps unleashing the kaiju because it meows so pitifully. And then the scamp runs off and dedtroys a city

[magic mason]

THinking about Triangle Agency aand Nobilis crossover again

my spicy take is that the Agency is Excrucian and Anomalies are Imperial

[restive ridge]

True

[patent tiger]

The most obvious angle is it's a rule/game beef imo

Team yellow are the Excrucians

[magic mason]

I don't actually think so

Yellow is very Flore pilled

[patent tiger]

See, that's true, but imo so are Excrucians

Strategists have it gnawing at them the whole time, Deceivers are founded on loving the world in a way that degrades everything about it, Warmains are too but in a different way

And yellow being ||the stability of the world is not important, take what you care about and hold it close, damn the cost|| is, I think, what loving the world ends up like from an Excrucian perspective more than anything

That's Strategist Flore more than Nobilis Flore, y'know?

[narrow tartan]

Hmm naming imperator types after pokemon games

[vivid wraith]

sure yeah Ruby Magisters Sapphire Magisters Emerald Magisters that works yeah

[patent tiger]

There's darklords and lightlords, so why not blacklords and whitelords

[restive ridge]

We need Sigmaperators

[narrow tartan]

Black Lords 2

[restive ridge]

Sigma Imperators: Primordial, Accursed, Allegory, Spiritual
Beta Male Imperators: Sentimental, Impresario, Chosen One, Prophet

[narrow tartan]

Primordial is Symbolic yeah?

[frank light]

Yup

[narrow tartan]

The Sigma arcset goes hard

does not fully understand significance of Sigma male. Suspects it is cringe

[obsidian dagger]

it mostly is. Basically, it started with misinterpreting a flawed study about wolves, then incorrectly overgeneralizing that, and then making up new terms to attach to that.

[narrow tartan]

nodnod

[fleet harbor]

The alpha/sigma/whatever stuff is non-binary gender for assholes, in this essay I will

[magic mason]

well the thing is, I do think its a gender thing, but its still aggresively within the binary

They are Naming the Forms Of Man

A gender subclass/specalization

gender prestige class

[fleet harbor]

If you have more than two designations it's not binary :P

But I don't actually have a strong investment in the particulars here.

We could call it gender for assholes, that would be fine too.

[restive ridge]

I mean even in mainstream society the gender binary has atleast 3 categories

[fleet harbor]

Insert some version of the astronauts with the gun saying "always was" meme.

[magic mason]

being a deceiver vessel has gotta suck

Its like being a treasure except instead of being one of the few things a rampant void god cares about your the main charecter of a psychodrama where you are manipulated by a supernatural entity that is a metaphor for alcoholism or political polarization or something

[obsidian dagger]

I mean, the treasures of Alcoholism and Political Polarization probably feel similarly.

[frank light]

Depends on the power really

The power of alcoholism might be a really nice person with a really unfortunate estate

[magic mason]

You gotta admit though there is a tonal difference between being someone’s little blorbo (sentimental) and being someone’s little blorbo(Creature Of Delirium)

[obsidian dagger]

Don't deceivers also have Sentimental, though?

[magic mason]

Nope

Strategists do

[frank light]

Strategists and powers do

[obsidian dagger]

...right. I'm not awake enough.

[frank light]

Deceivers have delirium, awakening, star quality, and reality syndrome

[restive ridge]

Bananotron needs to hop on an Awakening Quest

[magic mason]

A lot of example deceivers, even in 3e before creature of delirium was a thing, are built around these awful, traumatic relationships they establish with mortals

Which to me evokes that trope of “manipulative horror monster that stands in as a metaphor for mental health conditions”

[frank light]

Well

That’s just Phasael

Coriander and genseric had relatively normal companionships

Like

Phasael was the only one who’s thing was traumatic relationships with mortals

[magic mason]

Well the voice kills you eventually

[frank light]

Yeah but she was friends with some ghosts

Like personally friends

[magic mason]

She*

And yeah that’s true

[frank light]

And also fable of the swan just shows that delirium makes relationships complicated rather than openly abusive

It becomes complicated

[magic mason]

That’s fair

Still

They do exist in that space pretty well

Their built for it

[obsidian dagger]

Creature of Delirium isn't intrinsically about abusive relationships necessarily, but it is about relationships where you recieve more than you give.

[frank light]

It’s also about being weird and messy

You’re a weird and messy transformative experience

Cathartic maybe

But hoooo boy

[obsidian dagger]

I am convinced that Artiswitch is about a Creature of Delirium who is trying her earnest best to act like a therapist. The details don't line up perfectly but the vibes are right.

She doesn't ever visibly extract anything from anyone, and I could see her as a prophet, but fundamentally her aboutness is weird, cathartic, emotionally transformative dream sequences.

[frank light]

Yea

[obsidian dagger]

But it's one of the most outright positive depictions of a Creature of Delirium I can think of, and even then it's not 100% perfect.

Like, look at Episode 4.

Although the epilogues sort of softened that situation.

[frank light]

There are absolutely positive ways of wielding delirium

They’re just messy

The obvious example is catharsis

But you can also attach transformations and journeys to problems

You can help them deal with problems through transformation

And at higher levels you can alter their destiny

[obsidian dagger]

There's also negative ways of wielding Sentimental. And not even the obviously negative ways; I could totally see it as a metaphor for the kinds of relationships which are about making someone else more useful.

Or making them "better", in a well-intentioned but still manipulative way (although Creature of Delirium gets in on that too).

[narrow tartan]

What if: Harmony visits Silent Hill

Silent hill style game but at the end you fall from the world and become a Strategist.

[magic mason]

clears throat
Who up keepin they garden

You may return to your regularly scheduled programming

[restive ridge]

She Keeps my Garden till I Rule

[fleet harbor]

[restive ridge]

She Gardens my Angel till I Keep

[fleet harbor]

[narrow tartan]

Kirby as a Wildlord

[obsidian dagger]

Kirby always felt more like a True God to me, but I could see Wild.

[ruby ivy]

smashing the red button before he finishes explaining the slug thing

[fleet harbor]

I refuse to press the button.

[frank light]

smh

why

you wont use Bup?

[narrow tartan]

Bup sounds silly to me. Could we get a yellow button to change the slur to bup?

[vestal mist]

Blue button

Ain't broke, don't fix

[frank light]

Counterpart: Virtue Ferra

Ferra is a newcomer to the team, constantly shrouded in a nimbus of moonlight and an ethereal aura. Despite being the most inexperienced of the group, Virtue Ferra seems to exude hope, wisdom, optimism, and a reality warping amount of heavenly power. While she is not as good at blasting away foes or binding them as Auria or Cadmia, she excels at defusing situations, making the right calls, and being a beacon in the dark. While she always seems to know what she’s doing, she works with the team against the wishes of her Mother. 
Her hair is pinker than her mother’s, and has styled it into two drills rather than a long braid. 

Counterpart: Virtue Cadmia 

Virtue Cadmia is the second oldest member of the team, as much as age applies to angels. She’s quiet, thoughtful, and rarely shows her doubts. However, she’s a deeply caring person, and often chooses to use reason first and violence last, trying her best to find common ground with the demons of the Nevermore. She gives second chances a lot, sometimes too often according to her teammates, and most of the creatures bound into her chainlink talisman were either too dangerous to be let go or willingly chose to enter her service.
Her hair is a deep sapphire, cut short. 

Counterpart - Seraph Aurum

Seraph Aurum is the oldest member of the group, having woken up in the basement of what appears to be her adult self, her last memories being her heroic sacrifice to seal away the First Devil. Despite appearing the same age as any other angel (Immortality has that effect), she considers herself something of a wise older mentor. However, her experience has jaded her a little(not enough to dampen that angelic spirit certainly), and she often leaps into solving the problem directly. She wields magical blasts that purify the world, and a sparkling power that seems to bring a cheerful light to the gray and the mundane. 
Her hair is blonde, wavy, and a little messy, but she keeps it that way on purpose.

Counterpart: Cherub Natria

Cherub Natria, before he fell asleep eternally, was the keeper of the City. He was once the first of the angels to arrive in the City, and she made it her job to shape the streets, the transport, the roofs, and all the places outside people’s walls. It is by his will that the City is so walkable, has so much public transportation, and honestly very beautiful parks. However, his absence from his Garden has meant that much of his work has started to decay to the natural entropy of urban planning. Parks start to shrink, streets become more cluttered, and the trains become more and more expensive.
He had black hair, bangs covering one side of his face in an emo cut, partially as an amusing joke. It had this purple streak, running through it, though the dye has faded after many years.

Magical girl chuubos project

[frank light]

okay now that im out of dinner i can explain

so
the pitch is that each pc has a counterpart angel/magical girl, that is in some way representative of their younger self.
and each pc has a fallen angel arc

the red pc is Ferra's parent, an older figure despite the fact that angels do not age. (her being an adult is sorta a subtle hint that she is more of a devil.) the red pc is deeply about protecting innocence, and often this has friction with their daughter because being a magical girl is all about autonomy to them.

The blue pc is the evil mirror clone of Cadmia, basically a copy of her from an evil universe where things went wrong. A universe where Cadmia was meaner, maybe a bit less forgiving to her enemies, and overall a little bit harsher. But that isnt what makes them an evil copy. They're an evil copy because in one universe, Cadmia survived some evil demonic corruption and became stronger for it. And in the other universe, Cadmia wasn't strong enough, wasn't good enough, and became corrupted and a devil. She's a living object lesson, a comparison, a 'what you could have become'. But she's a whole ass person

Yellow PC is quite literally aurum's adult self after she lost her powers in a noble sacrifice. She should have died, but she didn't, she survived. And has reality syndrome for the power of love and is breaking love in ways that it should not be broken. And has a whole complex about needing to be special again (they're the only pc without superior skills)

And natria is trapped in amber, asleep eternal. And the dream they have is the orange pc, the Allegory self.

one of the big pitches is the friction between the adult perspective on magical girls "a story about child soldiers and trauma", and the childlike perspective "a story about growing up, learning to be yourself, and an expression of autonomy" and also grappling with some idealized innocent version of yourself

so

idk

i think @fleet harbor part of your madoka thoughts were helpful in crystallizing this

though full disclosure this was a pitch i adopted from the ninuan server (with the permission of the person, of course)

(...believe it or not the pitch came from the kyubeyfic writer and theyve been very helpful with writing and drafting these ideas)

[fleet harbor]

If I push the button I forget that angels exist, what the fucking fuck

[frank light]

oh thats true

though i assumed your memory was wiped both times

or in either case

[fleet harbor]

So I don’t push either button

Is my meaning

[frank light]

nodnod

[frank light]

Btw @fleet harbor did you see this?

[fleet harbor]

I did not! But looks interesting.

[frank light]

:D

[narrow tartan]

Strategist who has stopped destprying the world. But is still kind of supervillain

Strategist Ganondorf who hangs around Hyrule because he fell in love with the place.

[frank light]

Teacher 3. You’ve got a lot of knowledge of the world, and a knack for making it interesting
Grace 2. You move smoothly, quietly, and quickly. You tend to look good in whatever you’re wearing.
Getting to places 1. You’ve got a drivers license, and have experience with public transit.
Parent 0. It’s hard, being a parent. You don’t know if you’re doing it right.
Cooking -1. It is very fortunate that neither you nor your daughter actually need to eat food or experience hunger.

Superior Holiness 2. You still have your wings, tucked away. They’re dark, and shine like oil slicks. You only need strong feelings to chasten or scourge evil monsters, and can use those same feelings to purify others, encourage plant growth, or inspire people. You can download a plan of action from the cosmos in response to unnatural forces.(It’ll never be a good plan, but it’ll be a start.) 
You can fly, just a little, though this faces an  Obstacle 2. It’s harder, for you.

Creature of the Light 2

[fleet harbor]

https://www.tumblr.com/rukafais/791838052218814464?source=share cross-posting from ccc, what type of excrucian is this ccc

rest in deep silence

🔁 oh-hools

escuerzoresucitado

scary tiger 🐅

creepymutelilbugger

that is a fucking leobard.

Tumblr · Aug 14, 2025, 7:13 AM

Mimic? Deceiver?

[vivid wraith]

bunny deceiver using second skin

[fleet harbor]

I'm still kinda charmed by the idea of playing El-Ahrairah, Dying of Enemies.

[acoustic night]

god that's a good idea

all the world will be your enemy, prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you they will kill you..

[fleet harbor]

Oh man have I found another Watership Down Knower

[acoustic night]

But, first.

[fleet harbor]

One of my favorite books :D

First they must catch you.

[acoustic night]

First they must catch you.

[fleet harbor]

High Eide means free Cliffhanger Rite :D

[acoustic night]

i have not actually read the book or seen the film, but El-Ahrairah is known to me because it is deeply cool.

i should probably read it.

[fleet harbor]

It's a very good book.

[frank light]

Deranged things are happening in my notes documents

[fleet harbor]

Jasper should mention at some point that rabbits keep calling her Frith.

(This is lapine for "Sun" and "God" in Watership Down.)

[frank light]

OOOO

Adorable

[fleet harbor]

It manages to at once be an impressive work of xenofiction (maybe the work of xenofiction), a really enjoyable character piece, a deeply political book, and a very personal story.

I own a printing of it where neither the blurb nor any of the reviews even mention that it's about rabbits, and the only indication thereof is a single rabbit in a field on the front cover ... and yet the blurb is somehow entirely accurate.

[vestal mist]

Xenofiction?

[vivid wraith]

gets you into a nonhuman mind

[frank light]

Yeah

[acoustic night]

lmao, imagine reading this edition with no other knowledge of it, and then learning it's about rabbits

[fleet harbor]

Lemme find it, actually, I'll screencap it.

[frank light]

I’ve seen the term many times though the first thing I read that explicitly used it was kyubey fic

But also I really should read watership down

[vivid wraith]

this slightly baffling goodreads review has a special place in my heart

sorry what's that about sexy narwhals

[frank light]

What

[fleet harbor]

This is genuinely a really good synopsis.

Also, while lapine isn't a fully-developed language, we have just enough of it for some of the English names of the main characters to effectively be bilingual puns.

[vestal mist]

Tolkien Moment

[fleet harbor]

The lapine word for "uncountably many" is hrair. Notably, rabbits IRL don't seem to be able to count past four. So we have a character named Hrairoo in lapine because he was a runt and fifth in his litter. His name is usually represented as Fiver.

[vestal mist]

Love me xenolinguistic novels

[acoustic night]

huh neat

[obsidian dagger]

Thinking about Mimics again. Specifically, about a Mimic of Pain, who is a genuinely nice person and fully sympathetic, but also is the reason why chronic pain conditions exist (pain is supposed to be a harsh lesson that warns against some form of danger or harm, but it's broken, and now it's possible to experience pain that isn't meaningfully instructive). And, like, they're acutely aware of that fact and feel vaguely guilty about it, but what can they do about it?

[vivid wraith]

i was on a wikipedia page that might be good fuel for this

[obsidian dagger]

Like, one of the properties of Pain is supposed to be that it is not itself harm, but is merely the awareness of harm... but it is possible to feel Mimic Pain for absolutely no reason, or for the reason that you're suffering from a chronic condition and the condition just causes pain.

[vivid wraith]

here we go

[obsidian dagger]

oh intriguing.

...I just realized that hot peppers might indirectly be affected by the dichotomy of real versus fake pain because what they cause is arguably fake pain.

Because they cause you to experience the pain of being burnt, but no actual burning injury is occuring.

[narrow tartan]

They reassure themselves that some people like spicy food

[obsidian dagger]

I mean, I like spicy food. But it would be a very strange way of saying "this is not objectively worse for everyone always".

[vivid wraith]

mimics are on the cope grindset

[obsidian dagger]

I mean, their options are coping or despair.

They are intrinsically harmful to reality and to those around them, and there's nothing they can do about it.

Being a Strategist is walking a balancing act betwen harm to yourself and harm to those you care about, but being a Mimic is about constantly causing harm to others and never really being able to prevent it.

Like. How do you cope that your birth, continued existence, and death all are, or will be, profoundly harmful to others?

...I have Thoughts about Mimics.

[frank light]

IMPORTANT QUESTION

What should the evil clone pc of the Cadmia magical/angel girl be named

she kinda needs a separate name from cadmia for multiple reasons and this is an opportunity for her to have an evil clone name

(also this is a pc so)
(y'know, probably should be easy to use)

[obsidian dagger]

Otavia, after the cadmium ore otavite?

[frank light]

interesting....

maybe

if it helps, theres a couple possible origins of the name

either its the name the villainous force that created them gave them
a name Cadmia gave them
or a name they chose for themselves

Otavia is solid as an option

[obsidian dagger]

I'm tempted to pick something related to a cadmium ore or alloy (most of which are in turn named after people, according to wikipedia), or possibly something related to mercury which is the element directly below cadmium?

[frank light]

its a fun option

Mercury is fun

[obsidian dagger]

Mercury definitely feels evocative of something as a metal which can't stay solid and also is ridiculously toxic to the touch.

[frank light]

yeah

and it feels like a fun villain name someone else might give her

[obsidian dagger]

Mercur? Or does that sound too masculine?

[frank light]

mercury itself could be good

mercury's already a god too

[obsidian dagger]

I wonder if Mercury already being a god would be positive, or negative since it might obscure the element connection.

[frank light]

i think its a positive

since it obscuring the elemental connection is also a fun like
motif to show off "this is not cadmia"

it also subtly gives them more identity than living in cadmia's shadow

they are, after all, a main character

[obsidian dagger]

That's fair.

[frank light]

OH MY GOD WAIT MERCURY IS ALSO PERFECT BECAUSE IT'S SUPER REFLECTIVE TOO

AND SHE'S LITERALLY A TWISTED MIRROR OF SOMEONE ELSE

[narrow tartan]

I have one Wildlord who was just Dionysus for awhile before I found out about the name Bromios

[obsidian dagger]

Oh I wasn't thinking about how mercury is reflective.

[frank light]

i explicitly wanted to invoke broken mirror imagery with her so- mercury is a perfect name on even a third pass

[frank light]

Lash out 1. You know a thing or two about spite.
Scamper 1. You know a little about moving around fast or hiding in strange places.
Occultism 1. You pick this sort of thing up when you make a life out of binding spirits or becoming a bound spirit.
Socialize 0. Talking with people is not your strong suit.
Apologies -1. You wouldn’t even know where to start.

Night-Craft 2. Living in the Nevermore has changed you. Your blood, spit, and tears have taken on a supernatural quality, and you know how to shape soil into nightmares and minions. You tend to use these as confidants and company, but sometimes when you’re having a bad day you’ll make a monster and send it after Cadmia. You aren’t proud of that, but it has happened.
Superior Devil 3. You have a pair of leathery black wings and long horns. Your teeth are fanged and sharp. People become disquieted around you, monsters seem to like and listen to you, and you can sense the best way to ruin things around you. You burn when walking into holy consecrated ground, and cannot speak the name of the Creator. 
You can fly, too. 

Wounded Angel 2

@obsidian dagger she’s so silly

[narrow tartan]

She is small and friendly and made of bites

[frank light]

She is
She bites

[obsidian dagger]

Looking at Ancient Magus’ Bride fanfic and Joseph is such a Strategist:

Joseph is literally so evil but he's also the character with the most chronic chronic pain of anyone ever and sleeping in the bottom of a well is not a permanent solution for him

High-Lore, I think.

Dying of either Rot, Immortality, or Life probably.

Decay, probably. It’s broader than Rot.

Chise, meanwhile, gives off Fallen vibes I think. Elias is… maybe a True God? Maybe Wild.

[magic mason]

that is an extremly strateegist sentence yeah

[scarlet talon]

Spoilers for Vex's In Golden Flame module, this came up in the IGF chat the other day:

[fleet harbor]

The rule imo is to check them against the Excrucian murder justifications:

Deceiver: You don't actually exist
Strategist: You deserve it
Warmain: I felt like it okay
Mimic: AAAAAAAAAAAA
(I am only half joking)

[obsidian dagger]

Isn't Warmain "you deserve it" and Strategist more like "It's okay, I have a license (that being my constant excruciating suffering)"?

no, I guess strategist is more likely to say "you deserve it" also. Just... in a different way.

[vivid wraith]

nah Warmains just don't care

[patent tiger]

Warmains are sometimes "you deserve it (complimentary)", but usually they just don't care yeah

[scarlet talon]

Hmm- that feels like it would make Switch the Strategist- which feels a little odd, since they're almost the opposite of dying.

I think it would fit Loki as a Deceiver, though. (Pseudoestate "the Rebellious Behavior of Loki Valentinian"?)

[frank light]

I could see it though

Switch, from what I know, could be a high Eide strategist

With flore

They’ve got a whole…identity complex going on

[vivid wraith]

(i'm playing this campaign so stay spoil'd up plz)

[frank light]

From what I remember at least

Oh yeah for sure

I’m also being purposefully vague

[scarlet talon]

What would they be dying of, do you think? ||Perception or identity, maybe? Admiration?||

[frank light]

Good question

What seems to curse them throughout the entire story

[scarlet talon]

||Tossup between "people needing them to live up to unreasonable standards as something More Than A Person" or "their own desperate need for praise and attention".||

Or, possibly ||"the lack of certainty over who and what they are, not knowing if there even is a Real Person under all the layers of identities made to appeal to other people".||

So, taken all together I guess that's basically ||"being a people-pleaser" as a chronic illness?||

[frank light]

||…dying of people or identity, seems good||

[scarlet talon]

Having thought it over, I'm going to suggest this:
||Switch: Strategist, dying of Idolization (keeps getting put into a position where people want them to fill some sort of role to an impossibly perfect degree, will get driven further and further into trying to be whatever perfect ideal others want from them until the strain of trying to be several mutually contradictory or otherwise impossible things at once inevitably kills them and results in them reappearing in a new incarnation- basically, just a mythologized version of what happened with their old life as Baldur)||
||Loki: Deceiver, pseudoestate the Misbehavior of Loki Valentinian ("...is an act of rebellion against unjust authority.")||
||Tyr: Warmain, wields the test of Rejection (if you actually want him around he's not that interested, but if you don't think he's worth anything then he has to win your approval- I'm not saying it's the test of Daddy Issues, but like. Yes it is??)||
||Thor: Mimic (everyone tends to think of him as the normal one, but he's honestly just as traumatized as the rest of this dysfunctional family and just seems a lot more ordinary compared to his dramatic and frankly insane relatives- seeming normal but having something be deeply wrong feels like Mimic vibes to me)||

[obsidian dagger]

• ...is a weapon.
• ...is in <deceiverName>'s hand.
• ...is wielded with impeccable skill.
• ...ends lives.```
Thoughts?

[magic mason]

Oooo this is really good

This has applications

[obsidian dagger]

It is entirely in-character for this Deceiver to find random objects and know the truth that actually it's their sword.

[patent tiger]

Love the power to transform people into weapons

[obsidian dagger]

I hadn't even explicitly thought of that but, yeah. These properties would have some interesting applications with Creature of Delirium.

Extracting someone's... violence? Desire to cause harm? Ability to cause harm? And then wielding it as a weapon.

Also, the ability to do mundane tasks extremely well, provided they involve any sort of physical implement which can be wielded with impeccable skill.

They extract a person's volition to cause harm, and in doing so turn them into a weapon, because a weapon does not act to harm others but is simply a tool which causes harm.

[magic mason]

You can also use it to call any object you can see into your hand

Make any tool someone is using “wielded with impeccable skill”

Do the inverse and remove someone’s ability to wield something with impeccable skill

Make attacks against you incapable of “ending lives”

[obsidian dagger]

Yup! I had forgotten about the rejection possibilities, but, yeah, it's versatile.

In the vein of a Creature of Delirium, I sort of suspect that they insist that they're not a naturally violent person and don't enjoy violence, and also that this makes them superior to most other people who totally do enjoy violence (they carry a sword in their heart, after all!)... but they just don't quite realize that they do too.

[frank light]

im writing up arcs >:3

[obsidian dagger]

I'm curious what you end up doing for them. ...is there a Ninuani word for "sheath" or "scabbard"? Because I feel like their luthe should be either "beautiful scabbard" or "empty scabbard". Probably the latter because it has a double meaning (a person who carries no sword versus a person whose sword is always drawn).

[obsidian dagger]

Oh, right, Decievers don't tend to have Ninuani names since they don't have a kingdom which is no kingdom.

[magic mason]

Nono decievers still have Ninuani names

We don’t really now why but they do

[obsidian dagger]

Oh, well then.

[frank light]

they have ninuanni names

all excrucians do

deceivers are as much creatures of the void as strategists and warmains are

[obsidian dagger]

...is there a way to evoke an sword belt without it sounding vaguely like innuendo? ...or does this character have a name that could be interpreted inappropriately, and they either don't realize that fact or are self-conscious about it?

[frank light]

probably

lemme go pull up luthes

you want swords yeah?

[obsidian dagger]

Swords, or scabbards. "I am not a violent person", says the person whose sword is always drawn.

[frank light]

one second one second i can craft something

[obsidian dagger]

I was originally going to go with "empty sheath" for that exact reason.

...okay, I know all Decievers are kind of insufferable to deal with, but this person seems like they'd be insufferable to deal with.

[frank light]

Prassar
Precious Weaponry

“I am the jewel of the world and void—the
precious stone that gives it worth. The daevas
cry their praise of me: a glorious and sacred
tool of war.”```

[obsidian dagger]

Interesting!

I think Prassar is like... the kind of person who is convinced that they are correct because they're more logical than you. That kind of insufferable.

[frank light]

alternatively
Dhedun
Chintzy Authenticity

His wife has filled his house with chintz: to keep it real, I fuck him on the floor```

thanks jenna moran

[obsidian dagger]

...

[frank light]

i dont know why she did this

[obsidian dagger]

Prassar is the kind of person who would, without a shred of irony, describe themself as extremely logical and rational.

[frank light]

lmao hell yeha

thats the fun kind of deceiver

because they all truly do think theyre smarter than you

that they know better

[obsidian dagger]

Acutely aware that everyone else carries a sword in their heart, and looks down on them for it, unaware that they do too.

For visual aesthetics... maybe it's just because I've been interacting with a bunch of cultivation stuff lately, but stereotypical cultivator. Long robes, long hair with a topknot... you know the vibe. They can be distinguished by always carrying an empty scabbard with them.

[frank light]

YEAHHH

[obsidian dagger]

...I am currently imagining Prassar sitting at a desk with a sign that says "All of reality is a sword: you can't prove me wrong".

Like, not every deciever is going to say "I am logical and rational and you should debate me" but it increasingly seems to me like Prassar entirely is.

[fleet harbor]

Yeah this seems right.

If you want him to especially suck give him Ben Shapiro mannerisms.

[obsidian dagger]

Yeah, probably. That's definitely a major part of him.

Like I said: insufferable.

[fleet harbor]

You could also choose Jordan Peterson mannerisms if you want him to constantly move goalposts.

[obsidian dagger]

Definitely from the debate bro sphere.

As mentioned: the kind of person to unironically claim to be an extremely logical and rational individual.

[obsidian dagger]

..what's the Ninuani word for "empty"?

[frank light]

Lemme check

None mentioned in the roots, lemme look up gothic words

[obsidian dagger]

That's a surprising omission, given the number of things emptiness could symbolize.

[frank light]

Ken? Kenaz/kennan

I think Jenna just only had so many gothic roots to choose from

[obsidian dagger]

...that would imply this person's name might be Kenabalt which sounds a lot like "cannibal" and I'm not sure if that's a plus or a minus. (The intended reading is something like "the potential for violence, without violence; the distinct absence of a sword". The alternative, more common reading is "empty bravery", like talking a big game but then chickening out. The least flattering reading is "dickless".)

Nothing is held here, and in the nothingness is potential: here is the dwelling-place of a sword, a tool of violence and division.
Does that sound like something?

He claims that there is no sword at his waist because he does not carry one, not realizing that it is not within his scabbard only because it is within his hand.

("Prassar" is probably still better, though.)

For some reason (probably Ave Xia Rem Y) I think of "emptiness" as being a thing of potential and possibility, a distinct lack which can someday be filled, rather than merely absence and nothingness.

[fleet harbor]

If you wanted to, you could make something of this and say that not-emptiness is kinda trick because depending on how you look at it, it's either the default or completely incoherent.

Get a room full of strategists and warmains together: 1/3 of them say "Ninuan is the word for empty", 1/3 of them disagree loudly and angrily, and 1/3 of them are uninterested in the question but are staring at you wondering how you got them all in here and what to do about it.

[frank light]

“Hey why is the door locked”
“…”
“…wait a second-everyone! Get em!”

Oh btw gk and banana I finished up the drafting for arcs 1-3 for Mercury, the evil magical girl clone

"having an evil mentor that shows you how to be evil, and then saving someone from hell", "adopting an evil giant dog" and "Whoops you broke satan out of prison"

[fleet harbor]

Slick

[frank light]

Adopting an evil dog is critical to the fallen story

[fleet harbor]

Sad Robin never got a chance to meet Cerberus in Hell ;_;

[frank light]

😔

[restive ridge]

Oh what happened

[fleet harbor]

Not that

[obsidian dagger]

also not uncommon for Lord Entropy II!

[frank light]

True!

The bit is that the evil dog is supposed to just be a generic evil monster

It’s a horrid mirror creature made of misfortune, distrust, envy, and heartbreak

But the thing is

…so is Mercury?

So…adopting the evil dog is also a lesson in loving herself

[obsidian dagger]

...hm. I wonder if it would be possible to have a chthonic effect which not only Wounded someone, but forced them to take a particular power from the wound. Or if that's just... not the sort of thing that should exist.

It seems like an Impresario power, somehow.

[fleet harbor]

Conventionally one would take a wound to avoid such a thing.

[obsidian dagger]

Chthonic powers can force people to take wounds, or force PCs to take wounds, at least.

[frank light]

they can

but

hm

i think wound powers have a harder time forcing people to take a certain wound effect

i guess its not openly disallowed but

i can see why its avoided

[fleet harbor]

I am going to teach my dog karate

[fleet harbor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1115788957289037844/1407303902038069268/RDT_20250819_0459254204429200437382144.jpg?ex=68a6eee4&is=68a59d64&hm=996d9d8cbc0a72544128ce7491904d65a8fa6a046bd232e44cce53076699373a&

[frank light]

Lmao

[narrow tartan]

Rinley, doesnt he have gamer stats? If she has creature of fable he should probably be capable of not accidentally discharging

[fleet harbor]

wut

[narrow tartan]

I left out the part about the gun

Rinley has a gun meme

[fleet harbor]

OKAY

See that clarifies things.

[frank light]

yeah

okay

that makes sense

though also rinley is baby

so

very easy for her to accidentally fire her gun

[obsidian dagger]

The thing about Rinley is that it’s very hard to tell if any individual thing they did was intentional, and they are not going to help make matters clearer.

[frank light]

yup

[fleet harbor]

They may not even know, what with their being simultaneously a weird teen and a kind of shadowy creature of legend.

[frank light]

theyre growing into it

[narrow tartan]

People aging backwards. The present is fixed and you just become someone with a longer history in the past.

Live long enough and you become a World War One vetran

Flashdark that shines antilight

A shade of blue with the hardness of stone

[obsidian dagger]

both cool ideas

[vestal mist]

Cobalt?

[narrow tartan]

Honestly that one never fully figured out.

But. Lazuli lapidium

[obsidian dagger]

...I am realizing that the issue with representing Okina Matara from Touhou as an Imperator is primarily that she touches on too many concepts.

Although that's partially because of her original inspiration:

She is based on Matara-jin (摩多羅神), an esoteric, multifaceted God primarily of the esoteric Tendai Buddhism sect, introduced by Ennin. It should be noted that while small today, historically Tendai was among the most powerful and influential Buddhist schools in Japan.

Matara-jin is a shukujin, a type of formerly commonly worshiped syncretic god of destiny and stars, but also a god of outcast communities, such as traveling performers. Such groups were also associated with holidays taking place in the "backdoor" (後戸) area of Buddhist temples, e.g. a space behind the honzon, or main object of worship[4], where Matara-jin was commonly enshrined as a protector deity.

Additionally, Matara-jin with time acquired the status of a god of noh, which lead to him being conflated with Hata no Kawakatsu. Kawakatsu, head of the immigrant Hata clan, is a culture hero commonly portrayed as a trusted associate of prince Shotoku, a patron of sericulture and as an unspecified god masquerading, or reincarnated, as a human. Additionally, medieval authors such as Konparu Zenchiku associated both Matara-jin and Hata no Kawakatsu with the okinamen mask.

Matara-jin was sometimes also portrayed as capable of repelling diseases and various spiritual hindrances, especially tengu, viewed as the enemies of Buddhist doctrine. In turn, he too was at times presented as a hindrance to be placated with ritual performances.

Based on what she actually does in Touhou, she'd probably be an Imperator of Back Doors, Noh (or possibly Theater in general?), Astrology, and Discriminated People?

A hidden god who lurks behind all things in creation.
She has a wide range of public faces-- an Earth mother goddess, a god of noh, a god of stars, a god of silkworm breeding, a god of hindrances, a god of discriminated peoples, et cetera.

also her relationship with disability is... more complicated than I previously thought, but she sometimes uses a wheelchair.

ZUN originally planned for Okina to be in a wheelchair, because he wanted to address the issue of disabilities and how people with disabilities are the strongest. However, he decided that the topic was difficult to deal with in the game's theme, and that not treating it with the seriousness it deserves could become offensive.

[fleet harbor]

Imperators don't necessarily need to have all of their thematic elements as Estates, fwiw.

Ananda doesn't have beauty, Surolam doesn't have dogs, Entropy doesn't have evil.

[narrow tartan]

Deceiveea are super good at transforming others

[frank light]

It’s honestly one of their coolest parts that they can just be like that

[narrow tartan]

Its interesting that. You can have a world that both the Rule and the Game would loathe

[frank light]

Yeah

[fleet harbor]

One without team sports

[obsidian dagger]

Fair enough. She definitely has Back Doors, though. Like, that's the crux of her character. I'm just... not sure which other thematic elements to include. Probably also Noh?

[fleet harbor]

I’d be inclined to have it be Stars, Backstage/door spaces, and Noh.

[obsidian dagger]

Possibly. She also has some stuff to do with the four seasons? Which I thought was just to do with her game, but since she started all that... I don't know.

She's a pretty complicated character to try to stat up! And I'm not sure if Mai and Satomo would count as Nobles under this framework, or just Treasures of hers. https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Okina_Matara

Okina possesses the ability to manipulate both life energy and mental energy. She lends this power to her servants Satono Nishida (mental energy) and Mai Teireida (life energy). The two are described as "extensions" of Okina's power. Okina's profile states that she suddenly gained these abilities at some point in the past, likely before the creation of Gensokyo.

Okay, so some of the season stuff was her pouring life energy into random fairies, not doing it entirely with her own power. And, honestly, I could see her manipulating seasonal energy with a Magical Skill more than anything?

[fleet harbor]

It'd also matter what sort of imperator she is, since the particular way her estates express (if at all) would depend on that, sorta.

[narrow tartan]

Why dont i come up with as many new excrucians

[obsidian dagger]

Is there some number you're "supposed to" come up with? You can't control what random ideas you get and whether or not they're good excrucians.

[narrow tartan]

I remember buzzing with ideas.

[obsidian dagger]

I get that, but it's easier to remember the times when you had ideas than the gaps between each of those ideas.

[narrow tartan]

Yeah. And. Nobolis stuff definitely is still an interest. But not as much of a main interest

[obsidian dagger]

and that happens!

[narrow tartan]

What arc would fit someone who has one type of guy who does things for them?

[obsidian dagger]

Impresario or Gatekeeper, probably? Plausibly Gatecrasher also works.

[frank light]

sentimental too

Treasure in 3e had one example treasure as a favored butler so

yeah

[fleet harbor]

Yeah that's Treasure for sure.

[narrow tartan]

Specifically. A type of guy. Generic minion that is closely associated with you or your faction.

[vivid wraith]

Oh a minion manager is Impresario or Gardener

[magic mason]

Spiritual can also sorta do that depending on the flavor of minon

[fleet harbor]

Treasure can do groups, tho.

You can have an organization as a Treasure, for instance.

Minion master more broadly can be a lot of stuff.

Eide, for instance.

[obsidian dagger]

stupid idea: Gatecrasher into the World of Wizards whose unique skill is Stage Magic and whose devices are stolen magical artifacts. ...this isn't Reigan Arataka but it also isn't not Reigan Arataka.

[frank light]

LMAO

[obsidian dagger]

What is Reigan's unique skill, if we call him a Gatecrasher into the world of Espers? Chutzpah?

[frank light]

Salt-

not salt

[obsidian dagger]

Not salt. Sometimes it's photoshop.

[frank light]

confidence

[obsidian dagger]

Possibly. That's why I said chutzpah, since it's in the same general direction?

But it's probably confidence. Especially since the story points out that many espers aren't that confident in themselves.

[frank light]

yeah

and that confidence in himself has saved him even against other espers

he just

is so confident

[fleet harbor]

Whatever Reigen's arc is, it needs to reflect his superb confidence, his ability to function as a snake oil salesman, and his ability as a mentor.

He's, in a particular sense of adulthood, sort of the model adult.

And he's often contrasted against the childishness of Mob's psychic opponents.

[obsidian dagger]

I could see mentorship as a Gatecrasher thing, certainly. One could argue that he's faking being a respectable adult every bit as much as he's faking being a psychic. And, nevertheless, he succeeds.

[obsidian dagger]

Are automobiles Rule or Game? They feel like they'd be Game because they're fast and dangerous, but also... the Rule loves technological innovation but I feel like it especially loves the kind that makes things that already exist better? The things that make existing comforts easier, that make hard tasks easier rather than making them irrelevant... that sort of thing. And for some reason that makes me think of "faster cars".

[narrow tartan]

AC and DC electricity are seperate Estates.

[gloomy oasis]

Fuck you, Edison.

[narrow tartan]

What is "i seem to exist in my own setting where things work different" thinking about Gideon the 9th.

[vivid wraith]

Supposedly, Persona

it gets phrased as "a personal genre" a few times

unless you mean a literally separate physical location, in which case there's some other options

[obsidian dagger]

Orange and Red arcs frequently get to do this, to various extents.

But, yeah, Become Somebody especially does.

[narrow tartan]

Mhmm. Become Somebody pulls people in.

Slight difference

[obsidian dagger]

It does, but less so than uhhh... I think it's called Star Quality now?

[narrow tartan]

The Star Quality vs Become Somebody is weird for me

[obsidian dagger]

If you want just you to operate in another genre, Creature of Fable gets to do that but mostly when nobody's watching, and Creature of the Light arguably also gets to a little bit?

The way I think of it, Become Somebody is about exerting your story so hard that the people around you get pulled into being side characters in your story. Star Quality is about making them... still main characters in their own stories, but changing what their story is about, so it's about whatever your personal narrative is.

[narrow tartan]

nodnod its one of those things where the nature lf Become Somebody gets called out as doing stuff to people. And the fact that it is wielded by actuals.

Are. Shonen heros actuals?

[magic mason]

Become Somebody+Gatecrasher is a pretty iconic shounen protag stat line

[obsidian dagger]

I feel like... hm. Old generation shonen heroes aren't usually Actuals, but the more self-aware newer generation of them is more likely to be one? Although even thinking back to Old Classic Ones, that arc pair seems to fit reasonably well, so I dunno.

Actuals, as the joke goes, insist upon themselves.

[narrow tartan]

I swear Naruto is called out as being on Become Someone somewhere. And just.

[obsidian dagger]

I was thinking about Ichigo and he feels like a Mimic, arguably? I'm not sure if he's on Become Somebody but he's certainly on Wounded Angel and very plausibly on Gatecrasher as well.

Naruto on Become Somebody... I could see it, but I could also plausibly see Allegory?

[narrow tartan]

manifestation depends on your Role—
The people around you will reflexively respond to your self-presentation.
They’ll become more like you, or more fit to you, depending on the role. You infect them with your own 
call to heroism, or twist them into minions to your deviant science, or sweep them up as followers in 
your path...

This is a terrifying power.


I mean, if you’re a shining hero or a great leader, then yes, you can use this to make people better than 
they are.```

And. Naruto definitely asserts who he is trying to be (the Hokage)

[obsidian dagger]

True! It definitely feels Orange enough. But Allegory is also about becoming a role. And he doesn't seem to warp other characters around him in that sort of way? Like, "Hokage" is a role that is very respected and acknowledged within the universe.

[narrow tartan]

I would argue otherwise on the warping people around him

He. Doesnt necessarily watp anyone. But he does change people significantly

[obsidian dagger]

True, but changing others isn't unique to Become Somebody. It's not even unique to miraculous power. ...I do see your argument regarding what happened to Gaara, though. It's a strong one.

I just feel in part like Become Somebody wouldn't usually change an important character for that long? But... hm.

[narrow tartan]

I think Holy also sort of fits

[obsidian dagger]

For Naruto? I doubt it. Does he ever seem to be especially well-lit out of nowhere?

[narrow tartan]

Though. I am reminded of my conclusion that Xu would be Shonen characters

[obsidian dagger]

I can't think of any examples but maybe they exist

Zu are a particular brand of cultivators which are very similar to shonen heroes, yes.

[narrow tartan]

More meant. The type of change he made in Gaara is something Creature of the Light would do. And. Hmm.

That is definitely fitting for Star Quality as well

I think?

[obsidian dagger]

Creature of the Light doesn't really have powers for changing people. They are an experience unto themself; arcs that give other people major character growth or cathartic experiences tend to be Sickly.

[narrow tartan]

I feel like. Creature of the Light doesnt directly change people but it opens people up to change?

[frank light]

It prompts feeling

It prompts you to be transformed

At least in spirit

They’re transformative not in a sickly or like, transmutation way

But they do inspire and trigger change

[obsidian dagger]

Encountering a Creature of the Light is an experience. You could take an Experience action just from seeing them. It provokes change and growth. ...but not as much as a Creature of Delirium can directly reach into you and provoke catharsis.

[frank light]

true

though certainly a creature of the light can directly look at you and say "hey btw this is extremely emotionally significant" and then you just kinda have to deal with that

same with transfix

[obsidian dagger]

Transfix is saying "I'm extremely emotionally significant". But the distinctions are certainly not that clear.

[frank light]

they tend to give you leeway on why its meaningful but they just sorta make stuff meaningful

[magic mason]

Special note: almost all splats that are creatures of the light also have one or more ways to physically transform you

[frank light]

transfix does do this

but obsess explicitly is like, basically a miraculous attack

its a super powerful "hey this is emotionally powerful for you" effect

honestly that might just be the nature of storyteller arcs in general

they do love to poke at others and cause them to respond in some way or provoke response from themselves

[obsidian dagger]

Red is the experiential color. It's about seeing and feeling — not even about reacting or considering, so much as the first flush of perception.

[frank light]

yeah

it makes sense that its associated word is "Melodramatic"

you react, you go "Gasp"

you say "woah! What is this?"

[obsidian dagger]

Yeah. Or you shiver with fear. You're not motionless; even if you're transfixed, I feel like you're breathing slowly. But it's a state of intense attention.

just remembered my weird random table I made for vending machines on the Far Roofs. Because... there's guidance on billboards, but not on vending machines, and that seemed like an oversight.

Roll me 2d100, someone (or two people can each contribute a number).

two separate rolls, to be clear, not a sum.

I rolled it myself and got 22 and 2, which is a weird coincidence, and leads to... something listed as Sour Cream + Brown Sugar flavored. I don't know what that would be that would taste good. I was originally designing these to be flavors for like... potato chips, primarily? With the possibility of getting some other form of mystery snack cracker or even a juice or something.

But i have no idea what a vending machine could sell that would plausibly be sour cream and brown sugar flavored. Really weird potato chips, I guess.

But just... given how weird the billboards are, it stands to reason the vending machines would also be weird.

[wheat cobalt]

that's honestly not that far out there as a novelty limited run flavor, if probably questionable in flavor

[obsidian dagger]

Should I roll another one?

Because the vibe I'm going for is mostly "strange foreign flavor combos", like, "can you believe they have X-flavored chips in other countries"

[acoustic night]

75 and 67, what do i get

[obsidian dagger]

Olive and liver.

[acoustic night]

whoof

[obsidian dagger]

Which I have decided is probably a potato chip flavor.

[acoustic night]

can't imagine that as a flavor combo

[obsidian dagger]

Neither can I. I... think it might be good? I mean, I like both individually.

(Side note: I am convinced liver-and-onion-flavored potato chips should exist.)

Here's the list if you're curious: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KKOmEoLYXSdPS_fuXNFUcZdEoXwz9DXgQ2eLvTUY-ZI/edit?usp=sharing

[fleet harbor]

I saw a sex toy vending machine in Rome, vending machines can be weird.

[obsidian dagger]

and so can potato chip flavors

As always, XKCD has a relevant comic: https://xkcd.com/1609/

xkcd: Food Combinations

If anyone tries this on you, the best reply is a deadpan "Oh yeah, that's a common potato chip flavor in Canada."

[obsidian dagger]

Is there a list of Chuubo's inspirations somewhere?

[vivid wraith]

Back of the book

it's a wild list

[obsidian dagger]

I looked there and missed it.

[vivid wraith]

it's like the veeeeery back

[obsidian dagger]

There it is.

[vivid wraith]

post it i'm away from my copy rn

i want to marvel at it

[obsidian dagger]

(I can't be bothered to copy-paste from a PDF and fix it)

[vivid wraith]

perfect

"Babe and Umineko both need to be in this list" yes ma'am glory to the Entropy administration

[vestal mist]

Princess bride is perfect

[gloomy oasis]

Yoooooo Young Wizards mentioned

[frank light]

HOMESTUCK

Homestuck tracks

[narrow tartan]

Utena of course. Young Wizards good. I should actually look at the when they cry stuff properly

[fleet harbor]

"Heartwarming anime like ... Kino's Journey" wtf Jenna

[vivid wraith]

The world is beautiful

[fleet harbor]

That absolutely is central to it but the very first episode is about the interwoven nature of that beauty and inevitable violence.

"Heartwarming" is not the word I would use, at least.

Phenomenal show, though.

I can see the inspiration, especially for the Walking Fields.

[narrow tartan]

Magnifico from Wish as the basis of a Ruler

But like. I havent actually seen the film Wish. Just stuff complaining about it

[vivid wraith]

https://bsky.app/profile/mckay4senate.bsky.social/post/3lxcy6mptbk2j

Bill McKay (@mckay4senate.bsky.social)

ChatGPT: no, going “Azrael mode” can be dangerous for yourself and those around you.

Me: I am the avenging angel of God. The time of purification is at hand. Few shall be chosen.

ChatGPT: you’re right. Let’s look at that again with the addition context that you are the avenging angel of God.

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Bluesky · Aug 26, 2025, 4:55 PM

[obsidian dagger]

So. Is there a Glitch storyline about encountering a Mimic you made as part of the Warhost, before you left the war? That feels like it'd be an interesting story.

[vivid wraith]

ohoho

[obsidian dagger]

Especially because both "the mimic is loyal to the warhost, and is incredibly pissed that you aren't" and "the mimic only begrudgingly works against Creation and envies you for being able to not harm Creation" and "the mimic refuses to believe that you aren't part of the warhost still" are all interesting.

[obsidian dagger]

Thinking about the old Gold quest set I came up with once, and thinking about how it'd be nice if there was a Blue quest ordering for it.

Especially since it's built around a single talent, and sometimes that'll be a Reality Syndrome Hack, but a lot of the time it'll be something like Superior Werewolf.

[magic mason]

I was gonna do that with Laithgund, my Hotel strategist

[narrow tartan]

One of the Strategiets I came up with would have the bond "turning into a giant snake definitely helps"

It would be sort of sarcastic even if the strategist doesn't recognize it

[vivid wraith]

someone asking "what are your favorite narrative mechanics" and every example i give is from froofs

[patent tiger]

lmao

[frank light]

Jenna wrote some TIGHT narrative mechanics

[vivid wraith]

you need three nested reference sheets. don't let them roll their way free. good luck

[magic mason]

Hell estate of photographs

Photographs….
…Preserve things in stasis forever
…Flash things with overwhelming light
…Value memory over experience
… cause ritualistic breaks in reality
… capture your soul

[obsidian dagger]

Thinking about my blorbo version of Ill-Made again, with Creature of Delirium. (She extracts from a person the prism containing their self-image, without which a person cannot describe themself as a person, and also makes vessels of those who sleep in the same Region as her (or in the region of her influence) without having any real idea of who they are.)

[narrow tartan]

I wonder. What would happen if she met someone dissasociating?