Jenna Moran Games (Nobilis, Chuubo's, Glitch, WTF)

[vivid wraith]

Oh wow that DOES work

[narrow tartan]

nodnod cool.

[frank light]

I have caught up on the unsounded webcomic

Now there’s a main character with Indomitable

Or indomitable arc 1

[frank light]

Oh also @fleet harbor it just clicked for me. I know what you meant by indomitable fitting with most xianxia villains.

Fundamentally, I don’t think JJK is the same genre.
But like, I just remembered sukuna from that.

And it feels like a similar ballpark of reasons for why those types of characters are indomitable monsters

[fleet harbor]

It also fits a lot of xianxia protagonists

[frank light]

True!

Indomitable protags are fun

(As I read unsounded)
(Holy shit)

[fleet harbor]

The only thing missing is like

[frank light]

(Good webcomic)

[fleet harbor]

The tendency to eat magic pills to get stronger

[frank light]

Mhm mhm

[narrow tartan]

nods yeah

[restive ridge]

That's your catchphrase quests

Indomitable 2 "Damn these pills so tasty!"

[frank light]

The main character has a sense of smell so keen it can detect magic, ghosts, and ephemeral things, and do it long distance.

She also has the strength to literally grab and hold ephemeral things and concepts, up to even ripping out her own memories or traumas. And throwing them.

Or doing the same to ghosts.

She is at least indomitable 1

And she’s such a goblin child I love herrrr

[fleet harbor]

Like in one of my favorite murim webtoons (which tend to occupy a space in between wuxia and xianxia) the heroine ate a magic drug that could have killed her and she had to survive through martial focus like ... twice in 60 chapters

The first time was some magic ginseng she found in the woods

[candid compass]

what do you think Sette's Inhuman Quality is?

[restive ridge]

Sukuna is canonically a character from a cultivator RoyalRoad work isekaied into an urban fantasy setting

[narrow tartan]

One story by Ryuugi, a cross between Percy Jackson and some Xianxia, gave Percy the cheat of: being invulnerable so he doesn't explode when he eats pills and doesnt know what to do with them

[frank light]

It’s gotta be speed

You are never faster than her

She’s a scampery little freak

[restive ridge]

(Gojo, on the other hand, is exactly on that Serpent Arc set)

[fleet harbor]

The second time, she got poisoned, and to give her a chance the poison clan gave her the Ultimate Poison which if she managed to process it would render her immune to all poisons and level her up

After waking up she could telekinetically wield dozens of knives

[frank light]

Characters with indomitable after ripping themselves to pieces (unsounded spoilers)

[fleet harbor]

The "ten-thousand year ginseng" which also cried like a human baby

[frank light]

Normal

[fleet harbor]

Eating weird plants you found in the woods that cry like infants is normal for girls

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. One homebrew arc, has a power that feels a little like domain expansion to me

https://aislingiora.tumblr.com/post/694858527462883328/defiant-my-third-fan-arc-for-chuubos-marvelous

[fleet harbor]

Random thought: powers should be able to swap out one of their normal attributes for one associated with their imperator, in this essay I will

[frank light]

Lmao

[candid compass]

we posed a funny thought experiment a while back in our Glitch channel
if you could swap a stat in a character's powerset for a different one that is either the same color, or arc type

[narrow tartan]

Disagree but I think maybe some arcs could be opened up to powers

[candid compass]

ie, if you had Lore, you could swap it with another Blue arc or any other Immortal arc

[fleet harbor]

(I don't actually think this is a great idea in general)

(Mostly I'm just thinking about how much Prophet would fit Sam Power of Void, who still lives rent-free in my head)

[restive ridge]

This would be horrible but would be amazing

[fleet harbor]

(It's good I let her live there rent free since she can't hold down a job)

[restive ridge]

That's really funny because Prophet is like the opposite vibe I have for Sam in my head

[fleet harbor]

Huh, really?

I haven't combed through it in full detail, but the vibe I got was "you can just sort of go with the flow of your estate and embody it"

[candid compass]

Prophet is an odd one

you don't really obviously do much, things just kinda end up in your favor in a way fitting to your Ideal

[fleet harbor]

And like, Sam is sort of Bad At Doing Things Other Than Art

And being the void

A combination of Flore and Prophet seems fitting for a miraculous being who seems sort of useless

[candid compass]

I did make a custom splat with Prophet a while back

I should flesh that concept out a bit more some time

they had: Prophet, Allegorical, Wounded, and Monstrous

[fleet harbor]

Huh, I can see a certain vibe in that

[candid compass]

curious what that vibe is on a first impression

[fleet harbor]

Feels like ... a being embodying the raw power of something that just sort of is, defiant of reason or explanation

Kinda kaiju-esque? In a non-Vastness sort of way?

A self-being that intrudes into the world

[candid compass]

Interesting
That does get pretty close to what I intended them to be, so I'm glad the powerset does carry some of those vibes

I do have a Glitch appendix style writeup for them, but might tinker with it a bit more

[magic mason]

A big thing with Prophet is that its very… so its not Cleric but its about being Priest of your estate

Like its Faith and Festivals And Relics

[candid compass]

Icons
The world is often indifferent and apathetic. A strongly held belief alone will not prevent the will of Creation unfolding as it was determined. But sometimes, a person exhibits a conviction so strong and so unwavering, a committment to an ideal so powerful, that they will see the fate of the world shattered before they will accept things as they are. And in that shattering, they become something greater than they were, an embodiment of that ideal, a being of sheer willpower and determination.

These beings are known as Icons among the miraculous, and they will enact their designs upon Creation no matter the opposition.

Icons purchase Ability for 2 character points. They are awesome and imposing, but behind all their miraculous powers they are not so different to the mortal self they once were. Even as they and others often forget that fact.

The Icons are Prophets of their Ideal. It is this power that sustains and drives them forward, that they use to impose their Ideal upon the world. They inspire others to follow in their path, and portent doom to those who would oppose their designs. The world itself cracks under their conviction, rearranging itself to suit their vision.

Allegorical are they, living legends, larger than life, more mythos than flesh and blood. It is their power to be more than human, to be metaphysically important. They arm themselves with tools and regalia befitting their nature. They shroud themselves in myth and narrative. The world comes alive in their wake, and they affect the lives of others in their passing.

They are Monstrous as well, in a certain sense. They are indomitable, unstoppable, tireless. It is their power to tear asunder any obstacle, to overcome any opposition. They are always as strong as they need to be, no matter the scale of their enemy. When in pursuit of their goal, nothing and no one will keep an Icon from achieving their vision.

Lastly, they are Wounded. The tolls their experiences have taken on them, the things they have denied themselves in oaths sworn. They have lost much in the pursuit of their Ideal, but it does not diminish them. They draw new power from each thing that they have lost, and will rise again stronger and more powerful each time they are struck down.

Sorry for the wall of text

[fleet harbor]

Yeah, and that is Sam's vibe, being a god is like ... the first thing other than art that she has been good at

For a given standard of "good at"

She and Void are in accord

[magic mason]

I headcanon that lords of games prophet relics are literal catholic style relics, but made of the previous gamelord forms

[fleet harbor]

Yeah, that fits

[magic mason]

Because gamers don’t die they respawn

But they still like… leave a corpse

So future versions of the gamelord just have magical items made of their own corpse

[fleet harbor]

XD

[restive ridge]

Hmm hmm

[candid compass]

Glad the vibe is coherent at least then

[restive ridge]

Sam gave me the feeling of being the Void yeah but like, in the classical Persona sense. Or like she was at the start of her Prophet story?

[fleet harbor]

Definitely, it has that "I am going to force my opinion on the world" vibe

[candid compass]

That's the idea, yeah

I started with something sorta Paladin-esque, after a convo with fluffy about how Monstrous and Wounded could be read as kinda Paladin like in a certain angle

And Prophet kinda solidified that into the "I reject your reality and substitute my own" direction

[fleet harbor]

The reason Persona didn't feel 100% perfect to me was that it's sort of still about wielding your estate, after a fashion

Whereas Prophet seems like it's about being wielded by your estate?

I mean the big thing is that she'd never fit with Domain or Aspect

[frank light]

ruleslord and gamer dynamic but its like the principal and rinley

where one of them is an adult that has responsibility and adult knowledge trying to wrangle a troublemaker

[frank light]

persona is also about like
having a genre
and embodying that genre and making others a part of it

prophet is very much "act like your estate and let act through you" in a more religious/less truth way

[fleet harbor]

Yeah it doesn't not fit but I do feel like prophet does? I dunno

[frank light]

sometimes two arcs/stats fit really well and just

you gotta pick one over the other

[narrow tartan]

Hmm... Dark Chuubo

[restive ridge]

Dark Chuubo's Mundane Wish-stealing Organism

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. What would Leonardo de Montreal have?

[vivid wraith]

Dark Leo's Comparable Sweetdream System

[narrow tartan]

Nah. Light leo or something.

[magic mason]

Average creature of delirium

[restive ridge]

So true

Wait Wishes is actually kinda fucking for Waymarks

[vivid wraith]

oh sweet

[magic mason]

Yeah!

[vivid wraith]

that's pretty close to what I was doing with Heart-Eater
although "wish" is a little more.... theologically charged than "heart's desire," in jennagames

[candid compass]

Theft with the Experience being your hopes and dreams

[narrow tartan]

So Dark Chuubo went to the Bleak Academy. And has Creature of Delirium 3 in Glassmaker's dragon and is starting the ??? Miraculous arc.

[patent tiger]

Fucked up and evil Chuubo's Marvelous Wish-Granting Engine, just a glimpse into my dark and twisted mind image of an unmodified copy of the Chuubo's rulebook

[fleet harbor]

It's not unmodified, someone drew a mustache on the picture of chuubo on the front

And colored in Jasper's shirt black

[frank light]

Leonardo sentence

[patent tiger]

Yeah

[narrow tartan]

Vastness is just my favorite IMO

I want to be a big lizard. And radiate. Dunno. Something

[vivid wraith]

😌

[frank light]

GOD DAMNIT

sorry for the ping gk the link got borked

[fleet harbor]

I was about to ask

[frank light]

https://candiedreptile.club/picture.php?/91/tags/16-the_angel_of_fortitude

THERE WE GO

rules and game

And also Rinley and entropy

Thought you would like this

[fleet harbor]

Yes this amuse

[magic mason]

yesssssss

[obsidian dagger]

I'm thinking about Mimics. And about how... Mimics usually have to mimic the powers of whatever role they've been placed into, right? And their most flexible power for letting them do this is Wounded Angel.

But Wounded Angel works via empowered wounds. And Wounds are... they're bites out of you character concept. They're impositions on your ability to narrate your character how you want to. They're making you less yourself, in some sense.

That's what mimics have to do. In order to copy the powers they're "supposed to" have, they have to become less themself. It's inherently injurious.

[patent tiger]

I think Style is notionally a part of how they do that?

[fleet harbor]

But yes being a mimic sucks

Both socially and metaphysically

[obsidian dagger]

Which was Style again? Creature of Delirium?

[patent tiger]

Gatecrasher iirc

Delirium is Theft

Which they also have

[obsidian dagger]

Ah. Makes sense.

[fleet harbor]

And ... Eide?

Which is Troubled?

[candid compass]

correct, yeah

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. Chuubo who qent to bleak academy. Have to change the quests. But. Presumable. Creature of Delirium 3 (steals wishes) starting on Wounded Angel 1 (his blasphemy is turning into a snake)

[vivid wraith]

HA

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. Leonardo de Montreal. Probably has Wounded Angel 1, Allegory 2 working on Allegory 3

[frank light]

wounded angel is great for copying a ton of powers.

so yea they can hurt themselves a lot to get the power to mimic some other bits

but also i imagine their other miracles are useful too

Theft is good for this, since it lets them do stuff that like, storyteller arcs can do
so they can pretend to be a rules or angel or fallen quite well

granting catharsis, appearing where they shouldnt, and like a ruleslord induct people into a soulless vision

[obsidian dagger]

Fair.

[frank light]

it isnt the same

but it is neat

its very cool actually im kinda a huge fan of how all their powersets ARE good for copying and pretending

Style is imo for the hidden world of their imperator
like if its a mimic angel, their style is about the stuff angels deal with.

its a style for the kind of mimic that binds horrors, gatekeeps the other, and uses magical girl blasts
someone pretending to be a magical girl kinda

or Style for say, a gamelord is about the hidden world and dynamics of the game, of tempting and exulting mortal free will and their doom.
not being the same as a game lord but certainly good at pretending!

Eide though
eide's interesting

eide is a good mimic power because it lets them dream up being kinda like an imperator.
they can pretend at doing the mundane techniques appropriate to them, get into peoples heads, and most of all
scheme in the background
they can hide shit, misdirect, feign death, trick and deceive

[fleet harbor]

Eide also just makes you good at projecting a vibe

[frank light]

yeah

greater costumery lets you start bringing in your vibe around you

[fleet harbor]

But I imagine it must fucking suck for your Eide technique to be something discordant with your nature

[frank light]

hahaha yeah

explicitly so!

[fleet harbor]

(Being a mimic sucks)

[frank light]

much like strategists who also have eide

being a mimic sucks!

the two excrucian types who can be defined by their suffering the most

i dont like saying "have it the worst" because i find that to be a reductive statement
but undeniably, mimics and strategists are very much defined by their pain the clearest

[candid compass]

I do think if your Eide is that discordant, something will have to give sooner or later

Or at least, that character probably doesn't have very high Eide

[fleet harbor]

Mainly I think that mimics are frequently going to have Eide that lets them play into their nominal miraculous type and uh

[obsidian dagger]

Idea: referring to the Best Friend as "everyone's favorite nasal demon".

[obsidian dagger]

which quest is most likely to engage in yak shaving? ...probably Aspect, but especially Aspect 3. Bindings could see it happening sometimes too.

It could arguably be a purple or silver thing, but I feel like in those, you're likely to be working away diligently at your goals. Yak shaving is when you're forced to specifically work on solving some other problem which isn't the problem you want to be focused on solving; silver just takes it all in stride as no less meaningful than the original goal, and purple is less likely to involve those kinds of tangents.

Arguably this is the basis of many great quests. I'm thinking about the notary public arc in Skin Horse right now.

Said arc is also the source of a great Mrs. Senko line, which is "there's no such thing as lightning which cares if you know about birds".

I think I've nerd-sniped myself into trying to figure out what arcs people are on. I think Nick Zerhakker might be on Child of the Ash?

Or, if not on it, at least have a little bit of it.

Unity's probably Indomitable. ...actually, no, definitely Indomitable. Maybe something Green with a Wicked Form or something for when she's smart?

[frank light]

that seems very yellow yeah

[obsidian dagger]

it's a bit different if you're stuck on one diversionary task versus if you keep encountering more new ones, but I think both are gold still?

[frank light]

it feels gold at least

its the kind of over the top that gold loves

[obsidian dagger]

Yeah. "oh my god I keep having to do more and more different tasks that aren't the thing I'm trying to do" and "oh my god I'm stuck 50 steps removed from the main problem and have to work my way through this whole chain" are both It Never Stops!

[frank light]

yeah

[restive ridge]

Gatekeeper: Do not trust the internet daemons that live in the internet, they said. Do not use the greater bitcoin archdevil to mind-control people into your scam they said. But its not like they are your mom.

Gatecrasher: Why is this mysterious from and how have they got into your super cool inner-group. They seem like they fit in tho so no bother. And the business offer they are proposing seems cool.

Wounded Angel: Yell at people about your crypto scam until they get pissed off enough to yell back, giving you a Wound to sanctify for supernal-marketing powers.

Allegory: Role- The Oracle Failling: Selfishness, enough said

Become Somebody: Build up a rep that you end up burning to make the scam actually work.

Star Quality: Pull people into your own personalised genre of hardwork rags-to-riches story

Children of the Ash: Moodsplosion I guess?

Spiritual: Directing your thingy to help make your plan work.

Called Away: Enter your digital realm and attempt to bring forth tools to make it work by directly hacking things, only barely not thwarted by your Shadow of IT security.

Holy: Simply convince people that giving you money is the most important act of their life.

Creature of Fable: Manipulate people until they have no choice but to support your stupid business idea.

Creature of Delirium: Allow desperate people to sell their hearts to you in exchange for more of your coin.

Chosen One: Destroy the Enemy "Doubt" inside people that you want to support you

Ace: Actually makes the crypto scam so good it aint a scam anymore

Reality Syndrom: I could give a billion answers and they would be all wrong

A Keeper of Gardens: Cares for making this project actually work so hard that they ignore the Toxicity that makes people support them

Sentimental: Asking their hypermurder sword of fire to do it for them.

Impressario: The entire set of powers of the quest

Indomitable: Curses anyone who doesnt give them their money.

Troubled: Eide rizz.

Accursed: Tries to do it mundaly, fails, resorts to a Greater Masking Ritual

Id also do the Black arcs but this is already a dangerous amount of brainrot

[obsidian dagger]

same energy as this somehow https://jennamoran.tumblr.com/post/162059647958/miraculous-arcs-as-dril-tweets

[vivid wraith]

excellent work

[restive ridge]

Primordial: You listen to what people desire, to what their wishes truly are and feel yourself resonate deeply with it. You awaken having an arm that automatically does the busywork of any business for you.

Awakening: Revealing that an implausibly large number of people are just emanations of the Primordial Sea of Profits that you are the genius loci of.

Prophet: Creating a PrincipleCoin that works despite all common sense and logic

[fleet harbor]

This is a strategist, right?

[restive ridge]

Yes absolutely

(Atleast the drip is Eide, I havent kept up with Arknights)

[fleet harbor]

She's even got a hat

[restive ridge]

She's even got a hat!

[frank light]

Yea

[narrow tartan]

My socks dont match perfectly. The world is wrong

[fleet harbor]

Weird thoughts: I can't think of a better set of game mechanics than Chuubo's miraculous arcs for describing proxies from Ergo Proxy

Because while Proxy fights are sometimes just punch-ups, often they're weird mind battles by shapeshifting magicians

[narrow tartan]

What would. Snek game be like?

[vivid wraith]

chuubo's. no probably not

[obsidian dagger]

Honestly, probably.

Probably Waking Fields play?

[vivid wraith]

hmmmm
You'd have your Worldwalker worlds you need to defend from Shadows

That's something

[narrow tartan]

I have no idea how rhe shadow thing would play out in something with full ladders

[restive ridge]

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/402707/the-flood

[tall jolt]

Jenna be making lots of stuff lately

[vivid wraith]

Flood is from a little bit ago

really cool game though

[candid compass]

It's just a little subsystem like how you have your Infection in Glitch I'd assume

[narrow tartan]

Capturing mysteries as pokemon

...need to read enough of the book to make sense

[fleet harbor]

Snakes and ladders :D

[fleet harbor]

Did I ever share my best Lord Entropy take

Lord Entropy is (was?) the angel who personally cast down the Fallen

This was not a healthy experience

[restive ridge]

Ooooh

[fleet harbor]

It turns out that being The Guy Who Invented The Formal Concept Of Evil does things to one's personality

(Not that the other angels weren't aligned behind their being cast down, but he was the one who bloodied his hands)

[frank light]

That’s a fun one

I’ve honestly slowly come around to True God entropy

[fleet harbor]

It works

Although I think whatever Entropy is, he's ... unusual

[magic mason]

Wanderer maxing true god is where true god entropy gets me

[frank light]

Probably

He is probably unusual

[fleet harbor]

Not even necessarily in terms of stats

But like, if he's a True God he's ... much more attuned to the human condition than most True Gods. If he's a ruleslord, he lacks even the scruples they have. If he's a gamer, he seems to revel specifically in wickedness, rather than self-annihilation.

[candid compass]

I do like the idea of his as a weird 'evil' Angel

[restive ridge]

My hot take is that he isnt any of the "normal" Imperator types

[fleet harbor]

This also works

[restive ridge]

(This gets less tenable if you arent using 3e rules but I love it personally regardless)

[fleet harbor]

I think we came up with stat spreads for Weird Council of Four a while back

Or not spreads, sets

[restive ridge]

I think if I had to give Chuubo Arcs I'd gooooo Impressario, Prophet, Creature of Fable and Adept

Just the worst mix between Angels Rules and Games

[narrow tartan]

I came up with an idea for Lord Entropy for most types of Imperator

[frank light]

id honestly still give him wanderer

specifically because 3e describes him putting a seed of evil in people

Plus i do feel like the evil world is like, a very good wanderer chancel

[magic mason]

Random thought: true god entropies WBH is based off Miraculous Attack from vastness

[restive ridge]

Cooking I think

[magic mason]

I think a gift like that could work even outside of Kaiju form at least

[frank light]

possibly

though it would be a much slower sort of wbh

but i could...possibly see it?

i guess its not invalid to say "yeah and my miraculous attack can destroy anything including ephemeral concepts"

[restive ridge]

Oh Evil World as a Realm is a good argument yeah

But the seed of corruptions feels to me as best presented by a geas

Swapping Impressario for Flore ... (also works with the focus his Nobles get)

[magic mason]

Well the thing is wanderer directly has a miracle for planting seeds in people

That’s a thing

[restive ridge]

It does, but his corruption feels like a passive aura (like a Gift of that Miracle thats Automatic). And Wanderer doesnt offer much else and Impressario gives Minions which are also a beeeg thing for Entropy

[frank light]

That’s true

Though while I can see a passive aura, I can also absolutely see it being an active thing

Plus, vastness has set the mood as a really low level miracle

So even if he isn’t explicitly planting seeds of evil in people
He can just make things worse with his very presence

[fleet harbor]

I think he needs Hunter

Hunter isn't always sitting on your horse with your dogs and your gun chasing some poor fox through the woods in a sick mockery of actual hunting

But it is the arc you take for that

[frank light]

I mean I suppose

He does feel like a creature of fable sometimes

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. Snake game is told as flashbacks. Tangled history just lets you insert yourself in the story

[restive ridge]

please

[narrow tartan]

Or the snakes are telling a story like it already happened. The Hollyhock God exists in the present

[fleet harbor]

My hot take is that the snake game is dorfromantik

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1455840/Dorfromantik/

Steam

Dorfromantik

Dorfromantik is a relaxing building strategy and puzzle game in which you place tiles to create ever-growing, idyllic village landscapes. With Dorfromantik, you can immerse yourself in a quiet, peaceful world at any time and take a break from everyday life. At the same time, Dorfromantik offers a challenge for those who are looking for one: To b...

Price

$309.00

Recommendations

25139

▶ Play video

My less hot take is that any snake game has to be at scale

Snakes are the sneauty and snenevolence of existence itself

[restive ridge]

Oooh

Thats a cool call

I posted The Flood as a snakegame only as half-joke

[narrow tartan]

The dark is pro firefighters. To an extent

[fleet harbor]

The dark loves firefighters who do dangerous things and push themselves way too far

A human willing to go nearly blind, able to breathe only because of the oxygen tank on his back, into flame and chaos with an axe in hand is like ... possibly the dark's favorite person in the world, I think

[magic mason]

only tangetially related but I like to think that there is some flexibility within the game and what any particular gamelord wants

You might have a gamelord who loves Martyrs or Doomed Heroes and goes specifically for that
You might have a gamelord who is very into the "Die fast and leave a pretty corpse" reckless youth thing
You might have a gamelord who is more broad in scope, encouraging pollution or something

[patent tiger]

Yeah, there’s lots of room with them

[magic mason]

plus I really like to imagine the Gamelord Murder Discourse

like I feel like murder discoruse ™️ would get people throwing hands when they all meet up in eden

[vivid wraith]

https://frivyeti.itch.io/rustic-vale

a new one

[frank light]

WOAHHHH

[obsidian dagger]

Thinking about Captain Samuel Vimes from Discworld. And if what he does at a few specific moments (especially the end of Thud!) is Auctoritas Magister stuff, or if it's more Orange. Probably Become Somebody-style "I am acting to express my Role, and no pesky miracles are going to interfere" if I had to guess? It could similarly be Prophet, though...

I think Become Somebody is most appropriate to this.

[narrow tartan]

Scelto of the Provenase as high deepness

Just. I have this mental image of Scelto as a person in a cell looking out at the world for Deepness.

[vivid wraith]

oooooh

[narrow tartan]

And. People keep telling them that they arent who they aren't Scelto of the Provenance and that they are someone else instead.

Also the doctor who bit where one of doctors companions gets stuck in a dalek

[vivid wraith]

https://goonlalagoon.itch.io/the-pied-piper-of-fortitude

This one looks good

[obsidian dagger]

I... am not going to have Minotaur ready, probably. Especially not with art. This makes me kind of sad, even though it's not anybody else's fault or anything.

[vivid wraith]

If you're committed but can't finish it in time you can submit a placeholder page and update it later

this is my Official Permission

[obsidian dagger]

I'm not even sure I am properly committted even though I said I would do it.

i'll see what I can submit, though.

[narrow tartan]

Thought. A soul is kind of like. A thing that ties togather a collection of spirits

[vivid wraith]

oooh
i can get behind that

like a single organism that unifies cells

[narrow tartan]

nodnod and. Like that world where coins have souls and people don't.

[obsidian dagger]

I am going to upload a work-in-progress.

[vivid wraith]

woooooo

[obsidian dagger]

...is this a "game mod" or a "physical game"?

or "other"? I've never used itch before.

[vivid wraith]

I think I tagged mine "physical game"

I see a lot of homebrew posted there

[obsidian dagger]

It should be submitted now!

[vivid wraith]

It's in!

[obsidian dagger]

I just remembered the other Froofs thing I "made", which is very simple: whenever you puchase food from a vending machine in the Far Roofs, you roll twice on this table, and those are the two biggest words on the packaging. I say this because I remembered that one of the possible legal combinations is "Xtreme Celery" and that just makes me laugh whenever I think of it.

[vivid wraith]

ideal

[narrow tartan]

-cat imperators with no sense of right and wrong. Holy, Hunter, Vastness, Sealed
-trickster birdlike things that steal stuff for their little pocket worlds. Wanderer, Gardener, Theft, Eide.
-Excrucians trapped in the world. Vastness, Visage, Style, Sealed.
-certain kinds of wizards. Style, Sealed, Theft, Flore.
-Elven Archmages. Architect, Adept, Domain, Legacy.
-Weirdo dying Imperators. Wyrd, Vastness, Symbolic, Fulcrum.

[obsidian dagger]

Legacy and Fulcrum are custom arcs?

Some part of me feels like elves ought to have Indomitable.

[narrow tartan]

nods

[obsidian dagger]

or important ones, at least.

[narrow tartan]

Maybe there is another type of Elf? More warrior princes

[vivid wraith]

elfs vs elves

[obsidian dagger]

Fae get Indomitable. Fairies sometimes do.

I was going to say "usually not strength" but now that I think about it, there are a surprising number of improbably strong brownies and such.

[narrow tartan]

So the archmages arepartially meant to thematically touch dumbledore/professor x archetype.

[obsidian dagger]

Ahhh.

Indomitable is... less of a good fit for that. Indomitable gets to forge destinies for people and things, but they're usually harder to find than that. Like, you need to quest for them.

whereas mentor figures are very available.

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. For more warrior elves... Indomitable, Creature of the Light, Prophet, and... Chrysalis (numb green arc that Fluffy the Trrrible might write eventually)

[magic mason]

legacy and fulcrum are from my homebrew
I posted the abilities and stuff for Fulcrum recently

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vej2mhOMmlcYZhupRetECQK6NEl97nCBCSlOueJdrvA/edit

[obsidian dagger]

Looking over the examples, it'd be interesting to have a few more examples for when Chained to a Master who... doesn't really want to be their Master? Like if you've dedicated yourself to being a loyal helper to someone, but the person you're helping does not actually care about or like you. Sometimes this can be because they view you as a discardable tool, but also something like... is it valid to be a Chained henchman who advances the wicked schemes of a character who has, in fact, renounced wickedness and who actively dislikes your attempts to help them?

It's also a bit odd that your Failing is, quote, "what stops you from living up to your role, from living up to what your Master sees in you or wants you to be." What if your Master doesn't actually want you to be your Role at all? What if your Role is as the devoted henchman to a character who'd really rather just have a friend instead?

...no, I misread, your role is what you mean to your Master. Not what you think you mean to them.

I still think Nina from Artiswitch is a great example of something, and, equally, am very uncertain as to what. I feel like her bread and butter is cathartic experiences, so maybe something Red? But she also smacks of being a Prophet.

It kind of feels like she does Creature of Delirium backwards. She finds people who are missing... something, some experience which she also lacks, which I can't quite pin down... and then lures them into her fashion boutique where she hands them an elaborate piece of fashion representing that. Then they have a strange, cathartic, Unreal experience as she gives it to them.

It's something to do with the wishing power of the heart, for sure. Something about... people who have lost the ability to hear their heart's desire? Or who hear it, but don't hear it strongly enough.

Her main shtick, in a nutshell, roughly boils down to showing people a surreal, Unreal experience designed to communicate, "here's what would happen if you received your heart's truest desire". What arcs would be best at doing that?

[vivid wraith]

CoD does have that, in Manipulation

[obsidian dagger]

Another point in favor of CoD: she has a different outfit every episode.

I guess she could extract stuff, with the actual extraction being elided, and give the weymark to the person in question rather than keeping it? Which is very strange behavior for Creature of Delirium, but Creature of Delirium was always a bit of a strangely specific arc in a few ways.

Yeah, I think this is a weird thing, but... I think one of two things are happening:

• People lose track of her Experience, and are brought via Sovereignty to her shop, where she reunites them with their own weymark
• People overflow with her Experience (which is negative), so she draws them in, extracts it from them in the form of a weymark, and then hands them back their own weymark.

The second one is strange, because it doesn't feel like she's offering a decrease in something. She's making people learn, and know, more after her encounters with them, not less.

It's possible that when someone falls under her Sovereignty she actually "banishes" them to her shop, and then makes them experience "what would happen if they recieved their heart's desire". It doesn't look like banishment, because they're drawn in closer, but it might all be part of that one thing.

[fleet harbor]

Bullshit isekai protag: monstrous, aspect, hunter, wounded

[obsidian dagger]

What's their standard blasphemy?

There's also a specific breed of bullshit isekai protag who has Awakening sometimes.

[fleet harbor]

Their standard blasphemy is horrific cliche

[obsidian dagger]

Iiiiinteresting.

[fleet harbor]

Each one has a terrible cliche at the core of their being

[obsidian dagger]

There might be a few that want Reality Syndrome also, and I don't think that's just because it's called "cheat".

[fleet harbor]

Wounded is nice because it lets them do new powers as the plot demands

[obsidian dagger]

True.

[frank light]

Reality syndrome is good if they have a particular experience they’re sharing but wounded angel is good if their thing involves their adaptive powers

It’s very good for characters who have a whole chuuni thing going on

I guess it’s also good if they’re more wizardly or pact based

Wounded angel has a lot of weird stuff goin on

[obsidian dagger]

Reality Syndrome is, I think, probably common for anyone whose power pays lip service to science? Like. The ones that are really about amazing transmutation or whatever, but they claim it's backed up by their modern knowledge of science. It lets them figure out awesome cheats to do with their friends, too.

Or "oh, you've lived in this litRPG world for generations, but only I, a person who was just born into it, am smart enough to figure out that your power that lets you parry anything can be used to parry an enemy's self-targeted heal" style stuff? I can't think of an example off the top of my head but you know what I mean.

Sometimes that's Awakening, though. Somehow, the people within the world never learned to explooit the laws of their world, until you awaken them to it.

[frank light]

Clearly this means fallen are the imperators that most closely resemble isekai protags
Right next to gamelords who more explicitly resemble them more

[obsidian dagger]

It also means decievers resemble isekai protags pretty well, which... yeah.

yeah, they kind of do, actually.

[frank light]

Yeah they do

They’ve got their own interpretation of the paradigm but-yeah

[obsidian dagger]

I have an excuse to post this again

[restive ridge]

This is cooking

[frank light]

"I fell from heaven for loving the wicked, And also I am full of the wicked wounds of hell?"

[narrow tartan]

Huh that is a really interesting take on isekai protags

Hmm. Alchemists with Wounded instead of Style?

[narrow tartan]

Coriander Hasp is actually Lassie

His actual name is Collie-ander Hasp

[fleet harbor]

"Timmy's been shot with flaming bullets again?!"

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. One nice thing about being a strategist, if you have the WBH, is that cleaning is somewhat easy

[frank light]

Yea

[magic mason]

its only easy if you don't actually care about the stuff that composes the mess

[frank light]

Listen, disinfectant kills 99%, wbh kills 100%

Or you can destroy the messiness from it

Or the disorganization

[restive ridge]

5 Wear to not end up destroying the entire kitchen by misfire

[frank light]

Destroy its filthiness or its uncleanliness

[magic mason]

storying disorganization wouldn't create organization

[frank light]

True it wouldn’t

[magic mason]

it would do a secret third thing

[frank light]

But it won’t be disorganized that’s for sure

[ruby ivy]

the mold unionizes

[fleet harbor]

Inevitably you're going to annihilate something you didn't mean to

"Ugh I wish all the crap on my floor would just disappear"

XD

[narrow tartan]

Look. I have a bunch of documents which probably have medical information. Cant throw it out. Cant be bothered to find a place to store it. Burning it is too likely to set the olace on fire

Imma cast it into rhe outer dark

[fleet harbor]

The Not is HIPAA compliant

[restive ridge]

This is the Noble experience

[obsidian dagger]

I'm thinking about what arcs Jesse Faden has. Allegory, definitely, and then... something Black or maybe Green? Or maybe even Blue?

I could see her treating the various objects as Bound Others with Gatekeeper... or as empowered wounds with Wounded Angel, which, interestingly, positions Polaris as a Blasphemy.

(this is the main character of Control)

another random idea: a Creature of Fable who is solidly convinced that, when you're trying to get somewhere, there's a neat line of bright yellow objects which will if followed show you an efficient if unorthodox path to your destination a la Mirror's Edge. And other people can certainly see that, yes, that particular balcony has a bright yellow planter box on it, but nobody else sees it as a clear line of parkour-able objects.

[vestal mist]

Ok, that's great

[narrow tartan]

There are eight genres right?

For hypothetical sky pirate chuubos with Ananda

I really like the phrase "seven skies"

so... in world different genres for different skies. With Town as Pastoral

[frank light]

I think so

[obsidian dagger]

Not all of Town is Pastoral. Only Fortitude is.

Each Region of Town is a different genre. Horizon is Gothic, for instance.

[frank light]

no yeah i think zoey is saying like
a different game concept

with several different skies as different genres

and Town just gets assigned Pastoral

[narrow tartan]

Yeah.

[obsidian dagger]

Fair.

[vivid wraith]

@orchid night
splitting the conversation thread a bit for convenience
behold

[orchid night]

ooooooooooh

[vivid wraith]

you do this to store dice away and then do it to pull them out again later

which, with the system's dice-matching, makes you very likely to succeed

[orchid night]

i love it

[narrow tartan]

Hmm meta superman

[restive ridge]

https://youtube.com/shorts/aIuh0nMkUuw?si=un_x1A7JDI9DQCrd

Glitch lore

[vivid wraith]

yeah

[narrow tartan]

Random headcanon. The reason Mysteries and Abhorrent Weapons have the same naming scheme is because some of the first mysteries had Allegorical and made their idrntities clear

[vivid wraith]

plausible!

[obsidian dagger]

Rinley... I'm rereading the Horizon campaign stuff and they keep feeling weirdly Blue sometimes.

[narrow tartan]

Trying to quit your role and failing would be allegorical?

[vivid wraith]

The "failing" hook does seem pretty well-designed for that

[obsidian dagger]

That.... hm. Orange arcs are fundamentally about learning how to be a role, or be better at at that role. If you're trying to quit something... hm. Is quitting a good idea? Is it redefining yourself as something more than you were before? Or is this "refusal of the call" territory?

[vivid wraith]

I could see an arc ending at Role 3 being about deciding you don't want that role after all

[obsidian dagger]

Fair enough. And... I do feel like "I tried really hard to get better at being this person, and then gave up" could be really awkward narratively, but on the other hand, Seizhi in particular seems kind of drawn to trying out lots of different roles?

[vivid wraith]

I think of it in terms of like....

[obsidian dagger]

...or lots of different interpretations of their role, at least. It's possible that the ending has to be something like "I learned something valuable from this, even though it isn't entirely who I am, because it informs part of who I am" for it to be satisfying?

[vivid wraith]

"I tried really hard to be The Hero but then i realized i was pushing myself into an impossible ideal"

[obsidian dagger]

In general, I think that... as a result of going through any Arc, a person has grown. If they go through an Orange arc, their growth is related to their role and identity.

That's a really good story; I'm just not sure if it's actually Orange.

Or if it's an Orange arc.

[narrow tartan]

I was more thinking. Someone doesn't want to be the hero but they can't not be the hero

[obsidian dagger]

I mean, Hero is the orange Issue.

I generally think of Issues as "the way <the thing this color represents> is progressing... is wrong, somehow"

So Hero is "your role isn't quite right; you need to do a big heroic confrontation about it" but that doesn't quite scan.

It works well for Calling, for instance; if your everyday life that you've been living is wrong, then you're being called to do something dramatic instead.

[vivid wraith]

This definitely sounds like Allegory to me

[obsidian dagger]

Illusion means "what your senses tell you is wrong".

[narrow tartan]

nodnod that helps me understand issues. I was partly thinking about allegorical and the element where you are kind of trapped in the role

[obsidian dagger]

If someone can't not be a hero... that could be any orange arc honestly. There's no requirement that somebody on Become Somebody enjoy their Truths, after all.

If you have arcs of Beocme Somebody (a hero), then you can fit in no matter where you go, but will inevitably find yourself having to be heroic there.

I forgot there were three black issues.

...I just remembered my thoughts on what the masks of the Six Sins might look like.

Owler's is a full-face mask with a big V-shaped slit cut into it which is lined up with the eyes and mouth, and Glass Spider I described as having "Piet Mondrian-style" rectangle patterns on it. I don't know if it has eyeholes at all, or if they're ovals or rectangles.

The Exultant's mask is closer to a domino mask than anything else, really just covering the area around the eyes.

I think. That might actually be Lee Scathing, or maybe even Mourning. One of them has, I think, like a domino mask with little fang-like bits poking down?

[obsidian dagger]

There's a particular story beat, which is... I think probably Orange? But maybe Green? Where a character, basically, insists on doing their job to a better standard than they're arguably expecting to. The classic version of this in anime is a teacher for a class that's expected to not really do much (because the class is written off as hopeless, or some of the students are, or the students want to bully the teacher into making it just a place to slack off, or whatever) but the teacher is determined to do a good job anyway.

I think there's also a version of this where a person is told "you should focus on saving the people who are easy to save, or who are politically significant, or who play well on camera" and the person insists on saving everyone instead. Or "yes, I know your job is to investigate corruption, but I wasn't expecting you to actually do anything about it". Or "I know you wanted to be a journalist and speak truth to power, but can you maybe hold off on a few of those truths and do human interest pieces instead".

I almost feel like there's one version of this that goes something like:

• The person shows up, full of naive ideas about what their job is supposed to entail.
• The person is shocked to discover that everyone else in their position does a substandard job. Possibly they're tempted or coerced into doing the same.
• The person remembers why they do what they're doing, and pushes back.
• If that doesn't end the story, they have to deal with active opposition to them doing their job correctly, rather than passive opposition.
• If that doesn't end the story, they take the fight to whoever's opposing them... somehow.
  And there's a different version that lacks that sort of sense of "well, I'm new here, so maybe this is normal?"

[obsidian dagger]

Now I'm thinking about the kind of teacher I'm envisioning, who's probably something Orange with a Truth like "I will not give up on a student" or "I teach the truth, not comforting or politic lies". And... weirdly, I can't tell if that (or that first truth in particular) is closer to Heaven or Hell in Nobilis cosmology. The fact that Fallen Angels get Allegory and regular Angels have nothing Orange might influence that.

I am also wondering if Ms. Frizzle is an Allegory but that's separate.

[obsidian dagger]

I think one of the signs of a character on Become Somebody is that, if they were transplanted into a different setting (such as in a crossover fanfic), they'd be basically the same. Like, shockingly few changes. Meanwhile, an Allegory needs to have a ton of stuff recontextualized, because otherwise their Tangled History won't make sense. But, like... you know they did something awesome in the past, but that has to change significantly to make sense in the new setting. Become Somebody just... works.

And someone with Star Quality? They're going to be weird. They'll keep trying to pull the story around them back into something closer to their original setting. Like, if they were a criminal who does great heists, they're going to just... keep doing that, even if it's out-of-place. They're just telling their own story.

(This slightly implies that Miquella the Kind from Elden Ring has Star Quality, among other things, and it fits. He might have Become Somebody instead, but either way, he's definitely got his own parallel story going which he insistently ropes everyone else into.)

In general, Immortal characters say something about the setting as a whole. Orange ones say something about its past, Green ones about its geography (as do Purple ones to a lesser extent), Blue ones say something about its residents and threats, and so on. So that needs to be negotiated.

[vivid wraith]

does this to you

[restive ridge]

Average locked in Serpent

[narrow tartan]

I blame Chuubo for Hoop Snake

[gloomy oasis]

So the "circle in a triangle factory" guy?

[narrow tartan]

Huh the Headmaster=King Death?

[vivid wraith]

noot quite

[fleet harbor]

I was under the impression that King Death and the Lord of Death's Dominion were different dudes

[vivid wraith]

There's two different Deaths and probably more

[narrow tartan]

Oh okay

[fleet harbor]

What is King Death's deal, though

I see him come up a bunch

[vivid wraith]

The knowledge of death that awakened the Fortitude Rats

[fleet harbor]

Oh, okay

Right

Yes I think I knew that at some point

[vivid wraith]

in the Far Roofs campaign he shows up a few different times

former owner of the Cintimani

[narrow tartan]

I imagine that King Death and the Headmaster are connected somehow

[candid compass]

they are both connected to death as a concept, but kinda different aspects of it

[narrow tartan]

(ive only read part of the book)

[vivid wraith]

one bit of GMD calls King Death an "aspect of or competitor to" the Headmaster

though others treat the as different figures

[narrow tartan]

That makes sense.

Something very funny about someone spamming A Tangled History

[vivid wraith]

it's great

i love that thing

[narrow tartan]

Snakes all retconning themselves ae having been to heaven

[vivid wraith]

FROOFS REAL

[restive ridge]

ITS HERE

[fleet harbor]

NICE

[narrow tartan]

YES! Was there supposed to be a frog to enjoy?

[vivid wraith]

That was part of the digital rewards

[vivid wraith]

this might be my Lilith

[frank light]

yea

[narrow tartan]

I only ever came up with a magical skill for Goregrinders. It was fun though.

[fleet harbor]

Twist: this was a plot by a ruleslord to create an imperial human, and it worked, and the imperial human hates their guts

[restive ridge]

Hahaha

[fleet harbor]

Wait, better yet

They found the imperial human repulsive

Victor Frankenstein Ruleslord

[magic mason]

I had an idea for a nobilisgame villan that is a multiverse hopping imperial human named Nathaniel who wants to kill the rules and games

And you are working for a ruler or a gamer

And can’t be having that

[fleet harbor]

Victor Frankenstein is pretty rules-coded, come to think of it

@obsidian dagger Out of curiosity, as the resident Arc Understander, what would you assume about a splat that has Wounded/Angel, Wanderer/Called Away, Vastness/Child of the Ash, and Lore/Gatekeeper? (All of those but Gatekeeper are on Jen, but Gatekeeper would definitely be the fourth pick)

[obsidian dagger]

Huh. Sickly Blue, Sickly Green, Immortal Green, and Immortal Blue... they're definitely standing at the boundary between something Of The World and something Not.

They're a guardian of some sort, notionally. They have strong ties to a real location, and a real faction, but also to an unreal location, and to some Blasphemy they keep locked up. ...is it wrong that this is making me think SCP Foundation in some ways? Like, not exactly, but the SCP Foundation binds up lots of different stuff from lots of different sources. So maybe they're jailors of some kind.

[vivid wraith]

some kind of jailor!
Interesting

[obsidian dagger]

I originally thought "gate guard" but some kind of jailor makes sense also. Their prisons are not incidental, either; they're very much A Location, as evinced by the dual Green arcs.

I worry some of the Green bits might be getting lost if I just call them jailors, though?

Here's a question: what elements are linked between the various arcs? Is there a connection between their Blasphemy and their Shadow?

[frank light]

@fleet harbor im reading night birds feather bUT GOD DAMNIT THE 500 YEARS OF HISTORY FUCK

[obsidian dagger]

I still need to read Night-Bird's Feather.

[frank light]

the character who has these arcs has their kaiju form location be the same as their wanderer chancel

its a realm of awful nightmare creatures that serve her predecessor, that she now has ownership of
wounded angel releases this nightmare into the world with awful destiny

so i imagine immortal blue would also add a responsibility

the creatures of awful nightmare and terror in the world that are not contained within the nightmare chancel realm

their Shadow is actually not related to their blasphemy

but to their Wicked mode

[fleet harbor]

Also the world's shittiest library

[frank light]

a rebellious figure who has been consistently setting the place on fire

[frank light]

that too

[obsidian dagger]

Immortal Blue adds something of a responsibility, but it also adds Oblivious.

[fleet harbor]

Also Banana was right on the money with the SCP thought

[frank light]

indeed it does!

[fleet harbor]

Because the Chambers do keep dangerous creatures/artifacts

[vivid wraith]

yep lol

[frank light]

and considering the fraternization with these awful nightmare creatures it means that character might be more likely to trust and hang out with them instead of...normal people

thus far though jen has been reasonable about her comrades

[frank light]

they do also do this yes

[obsidian dagger]

Also, yeah, I should have known... the Green arcs (via Shadow and Wicked Mode) both have something that's a dark reflection of you, whereas the Blasphemy is closer to something other than you. It's your Blue Other.

[frank light]

interestingly enough, both of the kaiju characters have a base Mood that is honestly a bit bad or evil

or at least, ominous

for jen, its Awe
for aoede, its fear

but their wicked modes
Jen is Punk rebellion
and for aoede, it is serenity

its interesting at least

[obsidian dagger]

Portraying rebellion as the opposite of awe is a really interesting take and I like it.

[frank light]

a consequence of the setting having pretty awful divine forces as a default

yeah no gk was super creative with it

im a big fan

[fleet harbor]

But yeah this is pretty close! That's cool

[frank light]

yea!

[fleet harbor]

Specifically awe in the sense of like ... religious awe and terror

[obsidian dagger]

I wonder if they want Prophet?

[frank light]

probably not

or at least
their character doesnt actually act like a figure that worships a principle

[fleet harbor]

Yeah to some degree Jen is not comfortable with all this

[frank light]

yeah

she does not like nor want the role she is given

but it is what she has

her predecessor, her pretransition self/amnesiac previous self was

...a bad person

it is not unlikely he had prophet

he certainly worshipped a principle

[obsidian dagger]

Fair, but I don't think that Prophets have to consciously act in service of their Principle. They're vessels for it.

[frank light]

that is true

but its got a particular powerset

one that jen, at least rn, doesnt really...seem like she would use?

[fleet harbor]

In Jen's case I think Gatekeeper would be the 4th arc

Because she is kinda doing Gatekeeper stuff as is

[frank light]

she could, it certainly would be possible for it, and it could be interesting
but as she is right now she isnt the type to be Prophet

yeah

shes being very gatekeeper

[obsidian dagger]

It just... I don't know. I'm used to Green elements being a bit more closely tied to a more physical element, in some sense? Whereas Black ones are more tied to some kind of emotion or concept.

[frank light]

the element is Judgement

and to be fair, the titular element of jasper, the primordial ™️ character, is The Sun

[fleet harbor]

But that judgement can be in a very physical sense

[frank light]

yeah

its the element of judgement, the vibe of it, the materials and attendants of judgement

an angel of judgement

a world OF judgement

[obsidian dagger]

I think that sounds more Black than Green but maybe I'm mistaken. I sometimes have trouble unpicking those.

Especially since Green also gets some emotional stuff, and Immortal Black specifically is tied to a physical element.

[frank light]

it could be!

but in this case, jen is a very green character

instead of a black one

[fleet harbor]

Well, the Child of Ash bit is literally transforming into an Apocalyptic Angel of Judgment

[frank light]

yeah

[fleet harbor]

Being partially taken over by the blasphemy

[frank light]

its pretty dang cool

[fleet harbor]

And for Called Away, there's the Chambers of the Eye as a physical place to go to

[frank light]

jennifer, as a character, could go either way with black or green
BUT SHE IS REALLY FUN AS GREEN

[fleet harbor]

The SCP comparison is apt

[frank light]

because shes got responsibilities she doesnt want
and she has an element that makes her uncomfortable

[fleet harbor]

She almost had Awakening instead of Called Away

[frank light]

she doesnt want to be the god of judgement and watching and the violence of academia

but unfortunately, she very much is

[fleet harbor]

But I decided Awakening was not a powerset I found really interesting

[frank light]

mhm mhm

im very happy with called away!

[fleet harbor]

Me too

[frank light]

as your alternate decision
i also have had
a lot of fun designing your shadow

[obsidian dagger]

...I don't have a great conceptual understanding of Troubled. I kind of know it, but I haven't fully internalized it, you know?

[fleet harbor]

At least for Strategists, Eide is like ... their particular vibe (of supervillainy)

[obsidian dagger]

Iiiinteresting. Some of that is some stuff I might (incorrectly) describe as Gatekeeper.

[frank light]

it makes sense that strategists have both

[obsidian dagger]

I'm back to working on my arcs as songs doc and it's got me thinking about my lack of understanding of some things.

[candid compass]

the difference in vibe between Eide and Troubled is still kinda funny to me

though it might in part be just how Strategists are

Troubled is like, very spy or detective stuff

whereas Eide has a certain theatrical vibe to it

[obsidian dagger]

I think Troubled, as a name, makes sense as a midpoint between being Indomitable in the face of a Curse, or being Accursed by it. You're not either; you're just kind of Troubled by it.

[fleet harbor]

Also: I like Chuubo's

[candid compass]

Troubled is... you are being chased by something

there is a problem or a thing that hunts you

but you're pretty good at staying ahead of it generally, thanks to all your tricks

Strategists just get the double whammy of Eide and Wyrd

so their Bane both pursues and kills them

[obsidian dagger]

I've noticed that Frantic arcs seem to have a lot of ability to act retroactively. Immortal arcs (like Allegory in particular) can establish things about the past, and especially the distant past, and Sickly arcs get to as well... but I've noticed that Frantic arcs tend to be the best at changing the immediate past.

One could argue that the Ace's omnicomptenece is really retroactivly establishing having trained in whatever specific skill is being called for.

[frank light]

Frantics got a lot of powers to define what is possible for you
It’s a very main character sort of arcset

Frantic stuff tends to be very good at working with the Immediate and Current

[frank light]

It’s great

[narrow tartan]

Fanfic i am reading is going in a weird direction. But big deceiver energy

The simplest form of corruption is self-deception,” she continues as if she didn’t just turn part of herself to stone and back again, “a belief that you are something you are not—and no being, no matter how young, is naturally immune. As soon as a being has a mind and a soul, they are already deceiving themselves, tricking themselves into believing they are something they are not.

[vivid wraith]

ooooooh

[narrow tartan]

(She can feel something inside her skin, pulling at her sluggish grey limbs.)

(They only ever loved me, a person who never really existed says from beneath her skin.)

(They only ever loved her, she says to herself from beneath her skin.)```

[obsidian dagger]

Ok, which arc is this? Troubled? Creature of Delirium??

I should note that each of these outfits are unique. This isn't a singular signature outfit. This is a character somehow completely changing their outfit between two consecutive comics, to the confusion of onlookers.

[vivid wraith]

Creature of Fable's "Between the Boundaries?"

[obsidian dagger]

Probably. I'm used to Creature of Fable being used to switch to a singular distinctive outfit, but I suppose you could also use it for changing into arbitrary new outfits.

It's also used for fashion rather than disguise, so it's a suitably small effect.

[obsidian dagger]

this is a different character who is substantially more Creature of Fable-core. She even makes a running-gag-proof prison at one point.

And is noted as being able to somehow change into a funky outfit while straitjacketed inside of a truck with nothing in it.

that is definitely Creature of Fable.

[fleet harbor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/449651567948464128/1323937691166965790/IMG_5736.jpg?ex=67b6ee0f&is=67b59c8f&hm=76c708e4403e4d58108d02addd18fc3adb7a0487cb1401a29fa288c66d8229e0& He is the Wildlord of Obsession, Need, and Lasers

[restive ridge]

Nods sagely

[frank light]

Woah

Oh hey by the way I finished reading nightbird’s feather

Uh

…fuck

I guess

[fleet harbor]

What a book, right?

The ending ||definitely hits weird||

||But not bad, I think, just … weird||

[frank light]

Yeah

It hits a bit weird

I guess I get it

Though I feel…unresolved

I mean, I suppose the story with Valentina resolved and she was like, the pov for 75% of the book

Good for her
||she became a strategist and argued with the sun||

[fleet harbor]

Yeah, I definitely got that vibe

It's a good book but it sorta doesn't come to an emotional climax

[frank light]

Yeah

That would be my critique of it

[fleet harbor]

Or, several of the individual stories do

But the overall thing does not

[frank light]

Yeah all the individual stories have wonderful emotional climaxes and
Imo
I do think Valentina’s story got one as well

[fleet harbor]

Yeah

[frank light]

But aprosinya’s just felt…
I dunno. felt like there was more to say.
Felt like there was more to say with the heron witch but her fate was foreshadowed hundreds of pages prior I suppose

Mrs senko is certainly a very good Indomitable character

[fleet harbor]

Love Mrs. Senko

[frank light]

She consistently grabs intangible things!

She’s great

From what I’m researching she does at the very least use warmain arcs.

She’s an absolute delight

ALSO

ENTROPY ONE

[fleet harbor]

It's funny how the back of the book only really talks about Mrs. Senko

It's an absolutely terrible blurb >_>

[frank light]

Motherfucker is also a noseless magister

…I agree with you that entropy doesn’t need to be any splat in particular and honestly theorizing about this is a futile endeavor
BUT

THIS DOES ALSO LEAN A BIT TOWARDS GAME
A FUCKED UP GAME BUT A GAME

[frank light]

Damn

[vivid wraith]

"describe NBF in a blurb" is an extremely difficult task

[frank light]

Lmao

“The anthology of a famous sosunov magician ft. Mrs senko”

[fleet harbor]

"In the far and sunless land of Town, Valentina Sosunov faces a witch, a creature of mind and spirit that lays her family low and forces her to become something grander and stranger than she could ever have dreamed. In eight tales spread throughout the course of Valentina's life and death, she faces vampiric fathers-in-law, the obstruction of perception, and the very daughter of Death himself. Brought to us by Jenna Moran,The Night-Bird's Feather realizes the growth and history of a world through one woman trapped within it, and of one woman through the world she lives in."

I'm sure that could use changes and revisions but like

[frank light]

Oh that seems about right

Also very fun that the gods of dream and nightmare and there whims and motions are like
Worldbuilding forces

It’s very fun

Very fitting for a serpent

[fleet harbor]

Jenna's greatest weakness (and I think she has said is much) is that she is not very good at marketing

[frank light]

One day they decided they didn’t like all this nonsense and then caused an imperial deus ex machina and then also brought their bestie the sun

Yeah

As far as weaknesses go

Could be worse

Because she is certainly a very good writer

I was INVESTED

[fleet harbor]

Yeah

[frank light]

I genuinely adore the heron witch

[fleet harbor]

I read an interesting piece on marketing in libraries last semester

Which was sort of "we need to learn and use these techniques, whether or not they're associated with the enemy, because they work"

"At getting people to engage with what we have to offer"

[frank light]

Mhm mhm

…honestly this makes me think that Hayden sorrows might’ve been a student under someone who learned from Valentina

Given that he also knows sosunov magic

[fleet harbor]

I think it is essentially the best review of the history of Town from a Fortitude perspective that we've ever gotten

[frank light]

Yeah genuinely?

It’s one of the best fucking stories about the history of town

[fleet harbor]

It doesn't touch much on the Excrucian or Jotun or whatnot stuff

[frank light]

It tells us how the regions were formed and it also gives us a rich history of it

[fleet harbor]

But as a chronicle of Town changing?

Great

[frank light]

It’s not just symmetric 8 regions that just happen to be there
It is
A history of how they formed

Also

Love the mention of how genre timeframes work

Fortitude tends to have a very orderly procession of time

[fleet harbor]

I probably missed that

I did not know Chuubo's rules when I read it

[frank light]

And horizon is mentioned to have time that speeds through the months or has hours and days that last forever

That’s fair

I’m very glad that I read chuubos as a game first and got into it
It did help me catch some of the little details

It’s not needed but I enjoyed it

Like THAT MOTHERFUCKER

[vivid wraith]

🫵

[frank light]

The god damn Nobilis deep-lore just happening in the background

It’s lovely

[frank light]

Basically horizon is gothic while fortitude is pastoral so
The timeframes feel strange

[restive ridge]

So based of Hryhory tbh

[fleet harbor]

Yeah

[frank light]

Hell even the timeframes in places where epic fantasy or road of trials are take place

Valentina often faced corruption and trauma in the outside

And she faced critical and decisive action at the academy

[frank light]

The excrucians love the guy

OH GK WE ALSO HAD A N’moskittiel reference

[fleet harbor]

wait who?

[frank light]

One of the fabled “monsters” cneph was said to have caught

Who’s body was made into the angels

And there’s just an offhand mention

Nightbird’s feather just has
A lot of weird itty bitty nods to Jenna’s worldbuilding

[fleet harbor]

And yeah, big Gamer vibes here

[frank light]

Yeah

[fleet harbor]

Wait

Idea

[frank light]

It’s weird

[fleet harbor]

I've proposed before that Entropy was the specific angel who cast down the Fallen, and was tainted by doing something so awful (he was probably already not great)

What if he leaves Heaven (or is thrown out, doesn't really matter), goes to Earth, and is the tempter in Eden, creating the Game?

[frank light]

That could be really funny

[restive ridge]

Oooh

[fleet harbor]

He's not properly a Gamer

[frank light]

I’d believe it

[fleet harbor]

But he just like ... made Games (and by extension, Rules) because he's awful

[frank light]

Also man he sucks he’s great

[restive ridge]

His proudest creation

[frank light]

Love that school was the only good thing he did and even that was shit

He’s great

[restive ridge]

Maximum return of suffering on investment

[frank light]

Entropy’s a delight

[fleet harbor]

And in some ways I also see Rules vibes in that quote?

[frank light]

It was the one selfless act and it created another magister to replace him

Possibly!

[fleet harbor]

So him sorta being the creator of both

[vivid wraith]

2e had lore about a void-corrupted Serpent doing that

[fleet harbor]

Seems amusing

[frank light]

Yeah

I could see it

[frank light]

Damn

Void corrupted my serpent

[vivid wraith]

peanut butter corrupted my chocolate

[frank light]

Lmao

Yeah

A destruction of holiness

Also I love the convo between Valentina and Jade

It’s such a good excrucian vs imperator talk

[restive ridge]

It's kinda hard not to see a bit of one in the other when it comes down to the Rules and Games so it makes sense

[frank light]

And also mrs senko’s most evil line

[fleet harbor]

Yeah I think this is my new headcanon

[frank light]

I’m a fan

[fleet harbor]

I need to expand it so somehow Entropy is Every Splat

Except Wildlord

Angel, quasi-Fallen, went and tried being a snake, fucked things up in Eden

Not sure I can get True God in there

[candid compass]

I think Wildlord Entropy also works honestly

[fleet harbor]

It does, yeah

But not for this particular take

[restive ridge]

He tried it as a vibe but it didnt work out

That part of him now is locked deep in that Noble of his that doest speak

[fleet harbor]

... you know if he's the father of the Rules and the Game, that explains Entropy 2 being a Ruleslord

[narrow tartan]

Snake entropy just likes hurting things like a child.

[fleet harbor]

tbh I think you can make a case for Entropy as anything other than Fallen

Despite certain similarities

Whatever he is he's weird

[restive ridge]

I think you could make Fallentropy work too

[patent tiger]

This is only a vague recollection, but in 2e he was more directly entwined with one of the plotlines regarding True Gods

[frank light]

I vaguely remember people mentioning it

[fleet harbor]

Thinking about doing magic and miraculous arcs

Adept and Eide are the only arcs that really directly relate to “doing magic” and both of those have very specific vibes

There’s nothing that just feels like, “you are transcendentally, miraculously good at this magical thing”

Sort of in the fashion of Aspect, I mean

It’s interesting

[patent tiger]

I think that's in part because, in the 3e/Chuubo's functionality at least, magic is situated kind of oddly

It starts with "you can do literally anything" and goes from there to "but we'd like you to stick to a thematically-connected bundle"

[restive ridge]

Magic is the soft ectoplasm compared to the pipe-rules of miracles in Jenna games

[patent tiger]

Aspect is actively about expanding the mundane intention setup to let you do things easier, to an increasingly-more-extreme conception of [easier]

But magic in that mechanical framework is only distinct to one another for what it has difficulty with

So a similarly universal "do things easier and more extreme" for magic becomes... "do anything"

[fleet harbor]

I’m partially thinking of this because of Robin

[restive ridge]

Im kinda fascinated now by a "jack of all trades" arc embodying a bit of all the 24 ones tho

[patent tiger]

(And, honestly, Aspect already suffers from kind of being [do anything] at higher levels)

[fleet harbor]

Yeah

Aspect is very, very powerful

[frank light]

Prophet has kinda something like magic

Or at least

Not magic but “use this mundane skill in a way it was not meant for”

[patent tiger]

So, I think it makes sense for arcs centered on magical skills to be focusing on a specific story in relation to that magic

[fleet harbor]

Yeah, I guess the best I could think of is sort of the Story Of The Archmage

[frank light]

Yeah

[fleet harbor]

I can imagine how to format that better in Chuubo’s than in Nobilis

[frank light]

I think that blue arcs want to be about that kind of thing but

Their arcs are rarely about magic specifically

[patent tiger]

That, I could see an arc for, yeah

[frank light]

Though Gatecrasher/Style does have some potential

[magic mason]

Style is also good at magic for similar reasons to Eide yeah

[patent tiger]

Yeah, that's the other thing - Arcs in Chuubo are centered on a story structure and what powers let that story flow as it should

Ladders in Nobilis are toolsets

[frank light]

Yeah

[patent tiger]

(Oddly enough, I've found I prefer the Nobilis approach)

[frank light]

Very valid

[patent tiger]

(I love the explicit scripting of Chuubo's with Quests and such, but the metaphysical weaselbrain is in tension with it)

[frank light]

I’ve been finding myself really enjoying chuubos but, haven’t gotten much of a chance to have player pov

[fleet harbor]

You’d tie it to a specific kind of magic and … I guess you’d basically add new things you can do to the list periodically? Sorta like Wounded Angel’s empowered wounds

I think there would also probably be social stuff

[restive ridge]

Fulcrum is similar to this, could work for it

[fleet harbor]

And “relationship with magic” stuff

[frank light]

Mhm mhm

[fleet harbor]

Fulcrum?

[magic mason]

Homebrew arc I made

Leme grab it

[fleet harbor]

I’m tempted to try to write this

[magic mason]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vej2mhOMmlcYZhupRetECQK6NEl97nCBCSlOueJdrvA/edit

[magic mason]

Feel free to contact me about it!
I’ve done a couple homebrew arcs at this point now so I feel like I’m a good consult

[patent tiger]

This is also something Adept does, there's precedent for that

[fleet harbor]

This is really cool, and might even just be the vibe I’m interested in

[narrow tartan]

https://aislingiora.tumblr.com/post/694858911071830017/haunted-my-fourth-fan-arc-for-chuubos-marvelous

A hombrew arc someone made that deals with magic

https://aislingiora.tumblr.com/post/694810781374627840/princess-my-first-fan-arc-for-chuubos-marvelous

And one that feels magical

[restive ridge]

Lord Entropy is the Vaslui of Imperators(they both corrupt with simply their presence)

[obsidian dagger]

I recently read an interesting quote in a fanfic which I bring up here because I had shortly previously read the description of what each of Accursed means, and I feel like there's some interesting parallels, maybe?

“Evil… listen. Evil’s like air conditioning.”

“Say daily outdoor climate is what people live at, morally speaking. Hot and cold, wet and dry. It changes all the time but it’s usually pretty similar across the board, with occasional variations off of what would be geographically average. Right?”

“Good people put themselves out in the inconvenience a little more than most people and they get rained on. Maybe they have more stamina or whatever. I don’t know, but they can handle it, for some reason. Some perverts actually enjoy it.”

“Now, on the other side, imagine that there is a percentage of the population—a fairly substantial percentage, in fact—that cannot abide the average climate. They get sunburnt or heat stroke or they just sweat like stuck pigs. Or maybe they freeze to the bone.”

“Now. Imagine you’re one of those people. What happens the first time you step from a hot, sticky, miserable day into a dry, frigid air-conditioned building? Imagine the relief.” Dr. Odalys sighed. “The full-body… the…”

Josh looked at her a little closer, listening very closely to the soft, almost shuddering tone of her voice. Weird.

Dr. Odalys looked away. “The way you’re finally comfortable in your own skin.”

“It feels completely natural. I should emphasize that. Comfort becomes your baseline very quickly. After a while, you’re so accustomed to it that it’s not relief, but contentment. And you have just enough opportunities to go places without air conditioning that you feel like normal weather is hardship and suffering. It’s just enough discomfort to get you to jumping into the first cold room you can find. And you never want to leave.”

“It’s easy to get used to,” Dr. Odalys went on. “It becomes natural. Your blood thickens.”

“So who would ever leave that?” Josh asked softly.

Dr. Odalys tweaked the toy. “Some people don’t. Not for years, or for their lifetimes. The only thing is… there’s no off switch, really.”

“The air keeps cranking and cranking and… maybe some day you think to yourself that you can’t feel your fingers.”

“So you go find a window and sit in the sun. Your pores open up to take the light in, like they’ve been starving. Or you go outside on a perfect day, with the breeze just right and the birds flying overhead. And it’s…”

“But then you know you’re going to have to go back into that cold room and your blood will be too thin to stand it. Now you need a sweater to be comfortable, in the place that used to be the one place you felt effortlessly right. Then you need gloves. It takes more work to stay inside and stay comfortable, and they keep cracking up the cold air…”

“Eventually you just think it would be easier to go just outside and never come back in.”

(with extra chatter edited out, but it feels... kind of relevant? Not exactly?)

[restive ridge]

Yeah no this is basically Strategists

[obsidian dagger]

I'm just thinking about how Accursed, in Chuubo's specifically (which has a slightly different approach than Glitch does, I believe), sort of implies that you could just avoid your Bane. It would be possible to live a life which avoids all the direct negative consequences of being Accursed.

...but that would be an awful and hollow life. Even with the pain, it's better to engage with these things.

[frank light]

I didn’t quite get that vibe
Or rather

It does seem like eventually your bane does seek you out but

Accursed in general is pretty flexible

For the dream witch her bane is inherently unavoidable

Her curse at least cannot be avoided in any…real capacity.

Though yeah I do think other accursed curses have lots of room for things you can avoid

It mentions as an example something like Honest work being cursed for you.

[obsidian dagger]

i messed up Bane and Curse, I think. And I also feel like some of making the awful thing pursue you is more implicit in Troubled, which Strategists typically also have.

[frank light]

True

They do have both

[restive ridge]

I do think Strategists deliberately pursue their Banes but their Banes also go after them

[frank light]

Though for accursed bane and curse are kinda interchangeable

It’s the thing that kills you/makes your life awful

[obsidian dagger]

I think, even by default... you could probably live your entire life in your Sanctuary. It wouldn't be a satisfying or fulfilling life. But it's frequently possible.

[restive ridge]

But I think the passage works better in Nobilis as "You cant try to escape your Bane at the sacrifice of all potentially beautiful things"

[frank light]

Mhm mhm

[restive ridge]

"You have to live even if it hurts you, even if you did bad things."

[frank light]

I do believe that accursed mentions like, a reason why you can’t live in your sanctuary forever

Or a reason you wouldn’t want to

But maybe that’s just miramies questline

Where she has “establish a reason why your sanctuary might be a bit bad for you to stay in” as a goal

[restive ridge]

I think Glitch has your Sanctuary slowly get narratively "infected" if you camp in it for too long

[frank light]

Yeah

Or some disaster strikes it

[obsidian dagger]

I think it's usually the latter, and I think that usually is something more personal. Like, "you'd get lonely". Or "You could never see anything new". Something like that. Maybe I'm wrong, though.

[frank light]

Some reason why it is infeasible to stay within it too long

For Miramie, hers was that she loses track of time

She’s afraid that if she stays inside for too long she’ll wait and realize 20 years have passed again

Which is, a fair reason

If you spend eternity sleeping and resting and doing nothing

That is like death

Not quite death but it is a stasis

[obsidian dagger]

It is! But... I think that reason comes from the character rather than from the sanctuary, if that makes sense? The sanctuary is not dangerous. It is safe to hide in there. It's just not anything else good.

[frank light]

No yeah

For sure

Strategists do explicitly have a threat to their sanctuary/reason they can’t stay

But even if they didn’t

[restive ridge]

Batman is Dying of Family and Gotham is the Sanctuary he spends too much time in...

[frank light]

Staying inside your sanctuary all eternity sounds like it sucks

Given that it is just kinda a lonely little stasis bubble

Part of the tension is that you really can’t live without a sanctuary though

You need a place to repair yourself, to nourish yourself

[obsidian dagger]

Yeah. It's a fine place to go but a terrible place to live.

[frank light]

It’s a very safe place!

It’s not unhealthy to go there to heal
Because like

…your curse sucks shit and hurts you and is lethal

[obsidian dagger]

...I am suddenly thinking about Omori. The White Room is, conceptually, very much like a Sanctuary.

er, it's called White Space, but you know what I'm talking about.

[frank light]

I’m vaguely aware yeah

It is reminiscent

[obsidian dagger]

Creature of the Light and Indomitable can look a lot like each other, sometimes.

(I say this, because I'm suddenly not sure which one Michael Jackson's Thriller is. The video points towards Indomitable, as do the cultural touchstones it references, but I want to consider only the song itself.)

[frank light]

They do

To the point where I think it’s on purpose

[obsidian dagger]

I feel like also I should have a better understanding of them. Also of Troubled.

[fleet harbor]

Warmains having Angel parallels feel natural, yeah

I do kinda wonder about Wildlords having Indomitable

[obsidian dagger]

experientially they're different... but also, silver is about living life and red is about the sensory experience so it makes some sense they'd be near each other.

[fleet harbor]

It doesn't exactly feel off

[frank light]

Indomitable makes you something of an inexorable law

[fleet harbor]

But I'm not sure I quite get it

[frank light]

So it fits that wildlords have it

It also makes you an alien sort of law

[fleet harbor]

In the sense that wildlords are (un/willingly) intruding into Creation and importing laws foreign to it?

[frank light]

Yea!

In a sense they really are

They walked into creation and suddenly finding themselves to be laws of it

Wildlords are inherently alien to the world.

[fleet harbor]

I am amused by the idea that maybe Cneph just scooped some up and dropped them in, too

[narrow tartan]

Hnm... If you. Somethinged. I think arc colors are paired somehow? But i dont know which ones form pairs

[frank light]

Lol

[narrow tartan]

Oh that Cneph

[obsidian dagger]

I forget, and don't want to search Moran's blog currently, but if you look at the stuff for speeding up arcs, that's one way of doing it. Another is to look at paired issues; like, for effects that scale off of an Issue on a PC, they scale off of someone else's different issue if they're an NPC because it looks different from the outside?

https://jennamoran.tumblr.com/post/180491448243/the-horizon-campaign-16 this is... something like that. But it pairs Silver with Black and Red with Blue, and it's the color pairings for narrative speed. Silver/Red would be a different axis of swapping, for... awe?

Like, a moment that was significant becomes just ordinary life, or vice versa, to increase the sense of weight? I dunno.

[ruby ivy]

hmm
far roofs was kinda weird as the first Morangame I really read, and an aspect of that that I'm working through is that the powersets weren't very intuitive packages- there wasn't a clear throughline in, ex. Creature of Delerium between the thief-y powers and the command-y powers (ex. Sovereignity) and the actual name 'child of delerium', so I'm having trouble with what Child of Delerium and the other powesets mean, if that makes sense?

like I'm reading conversations in this channel with people assigning powersets to different characters and it's sorta indicating that there's something there that I'm missing

[magic mason]

There is a book called “the book of golden hours” on Jenna’s paetron with very elaborated versions of all of the powerset in far roofs and more with a lot of attention payed to their narratives and the expected progression

For Chuubo’s

[ruby ivy]

ahah, thank you

[candid compass]

BoGH does help elaborate on certain thematic bits

[obsidian dagger]

Yeah, Froofs... doesn't hide the colors for various arcs, per se, but it's not as immediately obvious, necessarily? It also obfuscates the Immortal/Frantic/Sickly trichotomy.

[candid compass]

the throughline of Red arcs, which Creature of Delirium is, is that they give you control of the narrative, just in different ways

[obsidian dagger]

Yes, absolutely, but... orange kind of also gives you control of the narrative. The key distinguishing factor is that... if the story were on TV, Red would give you control of the camera, and the framing, and the lighting (literally, for Creature of the Light).

[vivid wraith]

I will say
the full Mystery write-ups and the smaller write-ups throughout the book are helpful for this I think

Hedge the Fang taking your name from you and using it to control you is a pretty straightforward manifestation of what Creature of Delirium's deal is

[candid compass]

yeah I mean narrative very literally for Red

like how Holy does let you change the pace and framing of scenes

[vivid wraith]

it's not always that easy (thinking of like, Gardener, I don't think it has a "normal" version written up like that) but it helps

[candid compass]

meanwhile Hunter/Creature of Fable, lets you restrict what other people are allowed to do, if it's against your vision of things

[candid compass]

Gardener I feel is pretty intuitive at least

[obsidian dagger]

Yeah. Cut the Soul is fundamentally saying "I don't want this in my story".

[candid compass]

you have your Garden, and you can make little guys (and not so little guys) for it

[obsidian dagger]

Because it's Frantic Red. You have your story, with your set dressing, and your signature appearance, and that just holds true even when other people try to contradict it.

[candid compass]

yeah Cut the Soul and Revelation are both very "actually that doesn't happen"

[obsidian dagger]

Sickly Red, meanwhile, pulls people into your perception. Red sort of intentionally conflates what the characters see and what the notional audience sees.

It's about controlling people by means of an Experience.

[ruby ivy]

Interesting! What's the trichotomy you're referring to?

[candid compass]

basically there are three types of arcs
Immortal, Frantic, and Sickly

and these sorta determine your relationship to things, in addition to the arc color

[frank light]

immortal arcs are things like primoridal, child of the ash, creature of light, keeper of gardens/gardener

frantic arcs are things like become somebody or creature of fable

sickly arcs are things like star quality/memetic, called away, awakening, and creature of delirium

[obsidian dagger]

The short, overly simplified summary is that immortal arcs are in tune with the world, frantic arcs are independent of the world, and sickly arcs are opposed to the world.

#1161861116721385482 message I don't want to re-type all this but here's a slightly longer explanation of it, as I understand it, as linked to the Science, Faith, & Sorcery action.

[ruby ivy]

Gotcha, thanks!

[vivid wraith]

@frank light considering getting my sister Night-Bird's Feather for her birthday
Talk me into/out of it

[frank light]

DO IT

its such a good book

and imo a far better introduction to the setting/very friendly for beginners

the high concept shit gets explained

the weird metaphysical shit gets explained

as much as it can be

[vivid wraith]

yesssss good

okay

i'm validated now

[frank light]

its such a good book

[vivid wraith]

thanks dragomir

[hollow spruce]

I'm doin a flower riiiite

[vivid wraith]

WOOOOOOOOOO

[hollow spruce]

Killin the estate of Excuses

[frank light]

Thanks dragomir

[restive ridge]

Dragonmir a real one

Today I thought of my own life as currently being on a Golden arc, is it over for me chat

[vivid wraith]

develop cheat power

[restive ridge]

Today on the Glitch game Im spectating: Void sword pet euthanisation scene

[vivid wraith]

oh No

[restive ridge]

They are sending Sesander to the happy farm upstate that's too far away to visit

[frank light]

I WASNT EXPECTING IT

[candid compass]

I have been so looking forward to this

everyone else being so blindsided by this only makes it better

[frank light]

WHAT THE FUCKEHSJYDHS

[candid compass]

Its so deliciously sad Karen

[frank light]

I understand…

God

[vivid wraith]

Strategist Kotomine confirmed I think

[candid compass]

What's he dying of?

Apathy?

[restive ridge]

That mfer is the biggest Gamer I have ever seen what is blud on

[vivid wraith]

he has his whole backstory sequence about "ah, my experience is incompatible with morality as I understand it, the world must be wrong"!!!!

dying of, idk, "evil" is more general than i'd like for gaming but it feels like what the text is gesturing at

[restive ridge]

Hmmm

I see it

But idj

He's literally like anime Rasputin homoerotic with Gilgamesh that doesnt feel Strategist to me

[vivid wraith]

maybe that's flore

[restive ridge]

So real tbh

[narrow tartan]

Using Hunter/creature of fable for life hacks

[vivid wraith]

real

Between the Boundaries does that

[narrow tartan]

Revelation: I ddint forget my keys

[obsidian dagger]

Decided to reread Skin Horse a bit, and I found an example of why you don't let Creatures of Fable interact:

Of note, the black girl (Tigerlilly Jones) uses it to return to a consistent aesthetic even when improbable, whereas the white guy uses it to change into various different different outfits appropriate to the context.

[reef perch]

iconic vs relevantly-configured between the boundaries

[obsidian dagger]

Exactly.

Weirdly, though, they can both use Between the Boundaries for seduction.

although that might also be a campaign property. Or... something.

[gloomy oasis]

The one on the left is a guy?

[obsidian dagger]

yes

a crossdressing ex-Army psychologist.

[fleet harbor]

I showed my mother the physical Far Roofs book because she’s a retired production manager and she was extremely impressed with the art printing, especially the two page spreads

[vivid wraith]

it's SO NICE

[fleet harbor]

She was explaining some of the technical details of the black-and-white printing and how there are areas of actual solid white and actual solid black, which is rare

And then in one image you'll have an area of seeming white that is actually very subtly gray, and another of actual white, and it'll create visual draw in the image

[vivid wraith]

ooooooooh

[narrow tartan]

Thinking again about. Skiscer? Don remember name i gave warmain oc

Scissors is easier. I should figure out what she has going in. Or something

[restive ridge]

Nobilis

[narrow tartan]

Hmmm. We should bribe critical role to try far roofs

[narrow tartan]

Roleplaying characters based on who they are versus what they care about

[vivid wraith]

SO true

[fleet harbor]

I would love to see them or D20 do Froofs or Chuubo’s

[vivid wraith]

you know

if you have enough people watching a livestream you could have the audience participate in emotion XP

[restive ridge]

I think this would explode both fan communities

[fleet harbor]

Explode in which way, and fan communities of which?

[fleet harbor]

That would be kinda amazing

[vivid wraith]

Critical Role fans vs jennagames fans, blood in the streets, the wheel turns to an age of chaos,

[fleet harbor]

Ah they would go to war

[restive ridge]

No I just think CR playing a storygame of this calibre and a Jennagame reaching mainstream would simply cause spontaenous mass self combustion

[fleet harbor]

Aha