Jenna Moran Games (Nobilis, Chuubo's, Glitch, WTF) | Pilot NET | Page 19

tall jolt Jan 10, 2025, 2:21 AM

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I need to play one of these games

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again

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The game I was in died off

obsidian dagger Jan 10, 2025, 3:11 AM

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What do Mimics have again? I know Wounded Angel and... Prophet? Something Black. But I can't remember the other two.

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Gatecrasher, Wounded Angel, Creature of Delirium, Troubled. I forgot about the double blue.

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Nothing Purple though, which... I'm still not sure what Kasen is, and I wanted her to be a Mimic Zu because that's what she narratively is, but I think she needs something purple.

candid compass Jan 10, 2025, 3:13 AM

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obsidian dagger What do Mimics have again? I know Wounded Angel and... Prophet? Something Blac...

Wounded Angel, Creature of Delirium, Troubled, and Gatecrasher

obsidian dagger Jan 10, 2025, 3:15 AM

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Wild and Horned Hermit spoiler discussion if anyone cares, but is Kasen's relationship with ||her arm|| closer to Wounded Angel, or to something Green (possibly Called Away)?

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I mean... you could probably make her able to do what she needs to do with the MImic set (have her mostly be on silver Troubled arcs over the actual manga, using Wounded Angel for the aforementioned spoiler and Gatecrasher for her beasts) but that feels not quite right. If nothing else, she has a senkai (sage realm) that she created and can retreat to, but it's not like she has to retreat to there or it's where her soul dwells or anything. It's just... a physical location, which is hard but not impossible for outsiders to find, with temperate seasons, where her beasts and her live.

frank light Jan 10, 2025, 3:20 AM

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obsidian dagger What do Mimics have again? I know Wounded Angel and... Prophet? Something Blac...

wounded angel, creature of delirium, gatecrasher, and troubled

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no mystic arcs

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lords of game have Prophet tho

obsidian dagger Jan 10, 2025, 3:20 AM

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I say that, but she solves enough problems with Random Specific Knowledge that I guess the Gatecrasher/Troubled information-gathering combo could work. (Stuff like knowing that tanuki can get drunk off of oil, and doing so leaves them immobile for several days, and then just... having... a bottomless jar of oil?)

vivid wraith Jan 10, 2025, 3:21 AM

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they love crude oil huh

obsidian dagger Jan 10, 2025, 3:21 AM

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She might have Gatecrasher for borrowing random treasures, but oni treasures might also be empowered Wounds (weirdly) and it's miscellaneous animals that she can bind with Gatecrasher? Except that's not how Gatecrasher interacts with the Other.

candid compass Jan 10, 2025, 3:22 AM

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Troubled/Eide could do that via Strategy too

obsidian dagger Jan 10, 2025, 3:22 AM

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vivid wraith they love crude oil huh

Weirdly, no, because there's a touhou game about crude oil and everybody just calls it "black water". So I guess it's like... lamp oil or something.

candid compass Jan 10, 2025, 3:22 AM

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Strategy can retroactively let you be prepared for something too

obsidian dagger Jan 10, 2025, 3:23 AM

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She also can do some stuff that... uh... might be Chthonic? She does stuff that's not definitely chthonic, but between creating her senkai and some stuff she pulls off with seals and wards, it feels like she ought to be able to do something along those lines.

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But she does do some degree of Plotting which could be explained as being retroactive, so I could understand it being that.

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And, narratively, she's someone pretending to be a taoist hermit, so Mimic Zu just makes too much sense there too.

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I find it so amusing that there's just casually cultivators in nobilis but they have nothing to do with anything.

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and in Chuubo's, they run a burger chain.

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(or at least a burger place.)

narrow tartan Jan 10, 2025, 6:29 AM

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In a hypothetical RPG maker game with Nobilis characters should you start at full power or gradually unlock stuff?

ruby ivy Jan 10, 2025, 6:48 AM

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I'm struggling to imagine a Nobilis rpg maker game period tbh

narrow tartan Jan 10, 2025, 6:54 AM

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nods fair

obsidian dagger Jan 10, 2025, 9:24 AM

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I think Suika has the Serpent set. I don’t know enough to say if Yuugi does. And Kasen… probably still has Mimic but thematically could have Serpent stuff instead?

fleet harbor Jan 10, 2025, 9:40 AM

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I've thought a lot about the idea of implementing Jennagames in CRPG format because they are a mix of "wow this is perfect" and "completely impossible to translate" mechanics

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Ultimately you would need a very big game with lots of options and even then it would still be extremely bounded

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Certainly you would need a defined protagonist with a defined ability set

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@narrow tartan

patent tiger Jan 10, 2025, 3:04 PM

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fleet harbor I've thought a lot about the idea of implementing Jennagames in CRPG format beca...

I had some morangame crpg thoughts a while back

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Specifically - I think the funniest way to do a classic crpg faction plot is to set it in the second age, having it be about the war between heaven and hell

still blaze Jan 10, 2025, 4:00 PM

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Nobilis seems pretty much impossible to adapt, since a big part of playing it is figuring out how to use your weird powers

fleet harbor Jan 10, 2025, 8:01 PM

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It would just be a much more bounded experience, by necessity

ember plover Jan 10, 2025, 8:04 PM

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Would a Disco Elysium style crpg work ?

fleet harbor Jan 10, 2025, 8:31 PM

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That's what I was thinking of

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I dunno, to some extent CRPG adaptations of TTRPGs always lack the sheer variety of what you can do at the table

restive ridge Jan 10, 2025, 8:32 PM

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The Nobilis RPG is an amazing browser text game that makes a profit through premium account options and is made by an independent small studio yet somehow still rocks

fleet harbor Jan 10, 2025, 8:33 PM

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BG3 and the like let you do a lot but are still very bounded

vivid wraith Jan 10, 2025, 8:35 PM

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restive ridge The Nobilis RPG is an amazing browser text game that makes a profit through prem...

https://xavid.itch.io/wtf

itch.io

Wisher, Theurgist, Fatalist by Xavid

From the ranks of the people you have been raised up as a Wisher—

candid compass Jan 10, 2025, 8:37 PM

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restive ridge The Nobilis RPG is an amazing browser text game that makes a profit through prem...

yeah I love Fallen London

restive ridge Jan 10, 2025, 9:27 PM

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Ye0

narrow tartan Jan 10, 2025, 10:19 PM

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restive ridge The Nobilis RPG is an amazing browser text game that makes a profit through prem...

By premium account options it means someone goes in and adds the results of whatever unhinged stunt you wanted to pull manually

restive ridge Jan 10, 2025, 10:20 PM

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YESS

narrow tartan Jan 10, 2025, 10:23 PM

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...hmm.

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My actual original thought before bringing this up here. Was. Game where you play a Deceiver who is the weirdo freak who sets all the horror stuff in motion

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 12:40 AM

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Just remembered my idea for a game not set in Town using Chuubo’s rules.

frank light Jan 11, 2025, 12:43 AM

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oh i love doing those!

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currently running one of those

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 6:05 AM

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random thought: I wonder if the Power of Art Galleries and the Power of Museums ever feud over art museums or art history museums.

vivid wraith Jan 11, 2025, 6:06 AM

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i hope so

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i hope it's a bitter enmity that warps the politics of the Ash despite most of Creation's gods agreeing that it's pretty silly

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 6:08 AM

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...there's probably a lot of those, aren't there?

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It's honestly possible that both of them think the other is an insufferable snob, and both of them are, to some extent, correct. (Although the current Power of Museums is substantially nicer and better than the previous one, who was probably a crusty old white guy.)

frank light Jan 11, 2025, 6:25 AM

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probably a solid amount

narrow tartan Jan 11, 2025, 6:42 AM

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Oh. Power of Museums. Has a gift of, "You belong in a museum"

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But. One of my OC imperators... I should actually give them personalities at some point, was the True God of Museums, Mist, Provenance, and Pareidolia.

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 6:56 AM

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Iiiiinteresting. What faction are they?

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I'm tempted to guess Rule for Museums, but if they're more Indy I could see Game.

frank light Jan 11, 2025, 7:17 AM

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true gods usually arent a big faction thing

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theyre uh
y'know
the primordial type of god

magic mason Jan 11, 2025, 8:08 AM

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They just be fucking and fighting

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And schemin a little

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Sometimes

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 9:17 AM

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For some reason I thought "imperator" included rulers and gamers and was like... a superclass.

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 10:05 AM

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It does and is

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But types of imperator don't necessarily have "factions" in the sense that they're an organized social club

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~~To some degree imperator type just describes what facet of human existence they take to an uncomfortable extreme~~

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 10:07 AM

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Ah, I was (imprecisely) referring to Rule and Game as factions.

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 10:07 AM

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They are for most purposes

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 10:07 AM

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but the answer is "True God".

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 10:08 AM

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OH

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I see

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 10:08 AM

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...also you said True God in the first post. And I just didn't read it well enough.

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This one's on me chief.

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 10:08 AM

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Yeah, true god is a faction unto itself, although not really so much a political faction usually

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True gods are sort of the ... prokaryotes of the divine

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Their existence is defined by war, and consumption, and sex

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A particularly loquacious true god might quite reasonably argue that all existence is defined by war, and consumption, and sex, and anyone who tells you otherwise has refused to get to the root of the matter

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But particularly loquacious true gods are rare, as talking is typically ancillary to their function

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 10:13 AM

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fleet harbor Their existence is defined by war, and consumption, and sex

...see the funny/scary thing about that is that, when dealing with metaphysical prokaryotes, it might be really hard to tell which of those three things is happening in any given interaction.

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 10:13 AM

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That is exactly the point

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They're the raw thingness of biology, and perhaps of the material universe

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Like the other classes of imperator, they speak to a facet of human experience: that of being something alive

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Eating and excreting, loving and killing

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... True God Ananda @frank light is this anything

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 10:16 AM

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...mix the gold of the flesh with the blue of the Other, and you have the elemental, vital Green.

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 10:17 AM

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They're Called Away, Child of the Ash, Awakened, and Primordial, in Chuubo's terms

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 10:17 AM

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Yup! two green, two black, two immortal, two sickly.

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the known and the other, the material and the immaterial.

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 10:18 AM

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But like the other classes imperator, they relate to that one facet of human experience while seeming to neglect all the others

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And so are very, very bad at being people

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Worse than most imperators, even

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 10:19 AM

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they are the human animal, but... in a different way than Gamers.

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They're terrible at being people, but arguably better at being humans, it sounds like.

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because they're meat.

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 10:19 AM

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Games is more about the absolute desire to be free

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 10:20 AM

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It's fish brain versus monkey brain, insofar as either of those are real things that make sense (ie. not at all).

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 10:21 AM

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Never compromise, never be anything but yourself, and be yourself so grandly and wonderfully that you can but die in the process

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 10:22 AM

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...I wish I knew enough about Persona 3 to say more about it than the vague awareness that it's about the Rule/Game dichotomy.

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 10:22 AM

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Do you mean SMT Law/Chaos?

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 10:22 AM

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or to assign arcs to things. (Final Fantasy Tactics Advance is and remains a Deceiver game, though.)

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No, not exactly? Based on the major spoilers I've osmosed about Persona 3, the final boss represents ||the human urge for death||.

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unless you're saying SMT law/chaos is Rule/Game.

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 10:23 AM

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Sorta? There's not really a specific dichotomy that's central to the narrative of P3

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Just ... many different attitudes about life, and about death

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It's a game about death, and about life in relationship to death

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"Memento mori" is the tagline, after all

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 10:25 AM

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Yeah. It's a conversation about that, is the point. (Arguably Persona 5 is the opposite side of that coin? It's not about death and life, but the final represents ||humanity's desire to be free from independent thought and decisionmaking|| which is very much Rule-coded, or at least, the worst aspects of Rule.)

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 10:26 AM

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It's a reasonable parallel, although not exactly 1-to-1

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Which, why would it be? XD

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 10:27 AM

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further confusing the metaphor, the final boss's name is ||Yaldabaoth|| and it's defeated with the final persona ||Satanial, who shoots it in the head with a giant pistol||.

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 10:27 AM

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Aye, I've played the game a few times :D

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IMO Rules is the desire for survival, of the self and the species, exaggerated to impossible lengths; Games is the desire for the sort of absolute freedom that only arises in self-annihilation

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 10:29 AM

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I think the most Hell-coded game would be... not quite Stardew Valley? I want to say Stardew Valley, or something along those lines, but I don't know. ~~It's almost like games about emotional closeness don't trend towards either absurd extreme that Heaven or Hell represent.~~

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 10:29 AM

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Both speak to something in the human experience but in a human you have maybe a value of +1 to -1, imagined on a number line, while Rulers and Gamers have a value of +100 or -100

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Hell-coded stories are ... I think not all that common

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 10:30 AM

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I need to replay, and actually beat, The World Ends With You, and then somehow learn more about the sequel, because it seems like it might have something to say about that?

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 10:30 AM

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The Matrix? In a very roundabout way?

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But typically people are not all that comfortable with pure, unadulterated, unconditional love being portrayed as a bad thing

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 10:31 AM

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I think a Hell-coded story would look like, "this person is deserving of your trust. No matter how bad they seem, or how harsh they are, love them and trust them as they are, and accept them for who they are, because there is something good." So the story would be one that reifies that philosophy, even if in practice it wouldn't always work.

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 10:31 AM

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Or even a grotesque thing

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 10:32 AM

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We're talking past each other; I don't think a Hell-coded story would portray it as at all flawed, because in Hell's ideology it isn't. It'd be a story about how accepting others blindly is actually good.

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 10:33 AM

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I see what you're saying

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Hell as it sees itself

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That's much more common, yeah

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 10:36 AM

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Heaven as it sees itself would be... okay this is a weird take, but either a raising sim, or a dating sim. Something where expecting more from someone else is similarly reified.

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 10:37 AM

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Really any story where uncompromising devotion to one's values is exalted would be heaven as it sees itself

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 10:38 AM

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It's about the belief that you can do better, and that those around you can do better. It's sort of interesting balancing both.

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I think I found another very Hell-coded game: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/Dropsy

TV Tropes

Dropsy (Video Game) - TV Tropes

Dropsy is a surrealist Point And Click Adventure Game developed by Jay Tholen and A Jolly Corpse and published by Devolver Digital in 2015. In the game, …

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 10:40 AM

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Serpents really interest me because they seem, at first, very compatible with human worldviews

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But to some degree they're "from a distance" taken so far as to be incomprehensible

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 10:42 AM

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Serpents... I wouldn't say they want to be human, because they don't. But it seems to me (at minimum judging by Chuubo) that they might think they want to be human, sometimes, or say they want to be human. They'd just... treat it like a vacation.

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 10:42 AM

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They're neglecting the trees for the forest, as it were

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Of all the imperators I think they're the ones you could most reasonably convince to try a different worldview

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But I think they would have to physically become something else for a while to do it

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ala Chuubo

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 10:43 AM

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They'd love being human... with the implicit assumption that of course they could stop when they get bored.

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 10:44 AM

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All this is to say that all of the Imperator types/factions are correct to some extent

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But they're all only parts of the puzzle

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So are excrucians, really

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 10:46 AM

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Okay, here's a question: how well would various ones of the factions think they understand humans?

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(the answer is probably "very deeply" for both Rules and Game, and "...well enough" for both Heaven and Hell, I'd bet?)

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 10:46 AM

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I think Heaven and Hell probably do think they understand humans

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 10:47 AM

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Hell might actually understand humanity and all their foibles. They just don't judge them.

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 10:47 AM

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To some degree both are driven by something like a high-handed kindness

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 10:47 AM

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And Heaven... how well do they see what is, in the shining light of what could be?

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How much do they even mind?

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 10:48 AM

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Heaven really, genuinely believes we can meet their standards. They think they understand us.

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Hell thinks we shouldn't have to meet anyone's standards, but in the process fails to consider that maybe any of us can or should improve at all.

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Both are neglecting to look at part of what it is to be a human, and are absolutely certain they get it

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IMO

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 10:50 AM

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...the "faction" (in very large air-quotes) which is probably the most interested in really, truly, genuinely understanding humanity would probably be Actuals. Unfortunately, their primary way of interacting with the world destroys the very thing they're trying to investigate.

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 10:50 AM

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Rules think they understand us, Games ... doesn't necessarily. Lemme post the bit from Chuubo's

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Er, Glitch

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Conversely

restive ridge Jan 11, 2025, 12:46 PM

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Slay the Princess is a Hell-coded game

frank light Jan 11, 2025, 2:15 PM

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I love the
Rules

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 2:24 PM

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My preferred poisons are snakes, wildlords, and true gods

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Maybe because none of them are part of a dichotomy

tall jolt Jan 11, 2025, 6:01 PM

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From earlier:
Power of Musuems:
Whats mine is mine and yours is also mine

magic mason Jan 11, 2025, 6:03 PM

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Sharing the type of people my Deceiver used to hang out with

A Monstrous bio mechanical Warmain Wielding The Test Of Singularity(Bestie)
A High Eide Strategist dying of Trials
A High Lore Strategist dying of Coupons 
A real Creature Of Delirium type deceiver who's pstate is "The Monsters Decievername Dreams Of"
An allegory heavy Warmain wielding the test of Mysterious Strangers

narrow tartan Jan 11, 2025, 7:02 PM

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Oh. Deceiver who was a power that apparently died or something? And became a Deceiver because their Imperator just grabbed someone who was really similar to their original self

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 7:46 PM

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https://i.imgur.com/qM0gz30.jpg

Imgur

frank light Jan 11, 2025, 7:50 PM

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yea

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bone void dust for me

magic mason Jan 11, 2025, 7:55 PM

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Bone Abyss Dust

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 8:12 PM

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Bone void dust

frank light Jan 11, 2025, 8:19 PM

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eayyyyyyyyyy

narrow tartan Jan 11, 2025, 8:21 PM

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What would void vs abyss even mean?

candid compass Jan 11, 2025, 8:38 PM

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fleet harbor https://i.imgur.com/qM0gz30.jpg

blood, void, dust

patent tiger Jan 11, 2025, 8:42 PM

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Blood/Abyss/Rot I think

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Checkmate dustcels (my brain is leaking out of my ears)

patent tiger Jan 11, 2025, 8:43 PM

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narrow tartan What would void vs abyss even mean?

An abyss feels more monstrous and intense, while a void is more hollow and willless

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Is my vibe read of it

magic mason Jan 11, 2025, 8:58 PM

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narrow tartan What would void vs abyss even mean?

Void is Nothing
Abyss is Nothing(Monstrous)

The Night Sky Is A Void
The Sea Is An Abyss

obsidian dagger Jan 11, 2025, 8:58 PM

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it's the difference between a hole, and the absence of a hole.

reef perch Jan 11, 2025, 9:00 PM

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narrow tartan What would void vs abyss even mean?

you scream into the void but you stare into the abyss

fleet harbor Jan 11, 2025, 9:20 PM

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Also, the void is the primal nothing from which all things emerge

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The abyss is the primal nothing to which all things return

frank light Jan 11, 2025, 10:07 PM

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Abyss is bottom of the ocean while void is infinity of space

has been my interpretation

still blaze Jan 11, 2025, 10:50 PM

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Is there a Power of Homophones?

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Maybe the Power of Jojo References

obsidian dagger Jan 12, 2025, 12:44 AM

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I'm thinking about Gold in Chuubo's. The Ace explicitly has one specific thing they're not good at, or where their skill can never quite seem to help. Reality Syndrome... well, it's more like your Hack can't help anywhere where it breaches your mapped idiom, but it certainly seems like there's going to be very specific and idiosyncratic things it just can't do (see: Chuubo and ice cream). Why isn't there something similar for Chosen One? Is it that you're working within a single skill and that implicitly shapes what sorts of tasks don't make sense to do? Or the privilege of being Immortal?

vivid wraith Jan 12, 2025, 12:47 AM

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the idea of reality syndrome is that it's funky magic that's not as helpful as it "should" be

obsidian dagger Jan 12, 2025, 12:47 AM

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I say this because I watched the newest Wallace and Grommit movie, and Wallace definitely feels like some flavor of Gold (though I can't tell if it's Immortal or Sickly) with idiosyncratic powers which are extremely good at specific things but which may or may not actually make things better. Also, Reimu, who I've kind of settled on having the Angel splat, and who (despite being surprisingly Good At Things) is pathologically unable to make money and her every attempt backfires.

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 12:47 AM

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it might be the same thing with silver arcs and curses

obsidian dagger Jan 12, 2025, 12:48 AM

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I always interpreted the core idea behind Reality Syndrome as the idea that the difficulty of accomplishing some task with the Hack is orthogonal to the difficulty of accomplishing it "normally". Sometimes you'll be able to very easily accomplish very difficult tasks, and sometimes tasks that "should be" easy are nigh-impossible.

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 12:48 AM

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where the limitations are more...superficial

chosen one has an incredibly versatile toolkit linked to magic and some baggage associated with it

but then again, you could also say it has limitations

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for example

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blasts uh
dont kill things that arent your enemy

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shields cant protect against forces that arent of your enemy

obsidian dagger Jan 12, 2025, 12:48 AM

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fair enough.

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 12:48 AM

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stuff like that

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gold's weird
Ace's thing i suppose is a "thing your skill cant do" but it seems more like a mental blockage

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like
its a flaw
a deeply personal flaw

obsidian dagger Jan 12, 2025, 12:49 AM

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I guess since you're Immortal, your limitations are sort of defined externally as being "about your enemy" rather than internally by character fiat.

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 12:49 AM

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yea

obsidian dagger Jan 12, 2025, 12:49 AM

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I thought it could be any of a number of things? Where it could be a mental block, but it could also just be a narrative thing.

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 12:49 AM

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immortal arcs often get a lot of authority in defining things in the world

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true
just "tragic flaw" is quite evocative

obsidian dagger Jan 12, 2025, 12:50 AM

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Where like... a character is hyper-competent but somehow never has any money. And you'd think their hyper-competence would allow them to fix that, but somehow, it never quite works that way.

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 12:50 AM

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"normally psychological"

obsidian dagger Jan 12, 2025, 12:50 AM

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I guess since they're Frantic it would make sense for their Tragic Flaw to be internally based.

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 12:51 AM

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yeah

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i could see that

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you might even be able to see how the flaw evolves in the immortal - sickly spectrum

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where sickly gold, reality syndrome, is about having a broken perspective

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youre way more flaw than hack

obsidian dagger Jan 12, 2025, 12:52 AM

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As opposed to Immortal, where it's described by the world, and Sickly, where the limitation is arguably everything except for the wishing map you've carved out with enough force that when reality says you can't do it, you contradict it.

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 12:52 AM

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youve got so much flaw, overflowing with flaw

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mhm mhm

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immortal gold has
...less a flaw, but more a relationship to an enemy. and i guess the flaw is external then, a part of the world, something you yourself have responsibility for fighting against

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and the power to do so

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i do notice it a lot in quite a few immortal arcs, not enough that its universal but that many of them give you some authority to define a part of the world

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child of the ash makes your element a world

fleet harbor Jan 12, 2025, 12:53 AM

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Yeah, I'd say Chosen One being so locked into fighting a specific enemy is their narrowing

obsidian dagger Jan 12, 2025, 12:53 AM

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Honestly, thinking of it like that... it seems like "my magic engine can grant wishes" should be able to do anything, just like the Ace's intentions. But, also, that sentence is absurd and impossible, and that inherent impossibility means you're always facing those sorts of "it doesn't quite work for you" except for where you're strong enough to contradict it.

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 12:54 AM

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unlike called away, which, despite having a world made of your element, is about a specific estate-like element

obsidian dagger Jan 12, 2025, 12:54 AM

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...which Immortal arcs don't define part of the world?

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 12:54 AM

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creature of light

#

or well, they dont give you a "i have worldbuilding authority"

obsidian dagger Jan 12, 2025, 12:54 AM

#

It lets you define what the world looks like. That's Well-Lit.

fleet harbor Jan 12, 2025, 12:54 AM

#

frank light unlike called away, which, despite having a world made of your element, is about...

This is why I have both XD

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 12:54 AM

#

obsidian dagger It lets you define what the world looks like. That's Well-Lit.

thats an imperial miracle

#

i more mean like

#

defining a part of the setting

vivid wraith Jan 12, 2025, 12:54 AM

#

obsidian dagger ...which Immortal arcs *don't* define part of the world?

indomitable

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 12:54 AM

#

like gatekeeper's other

fleet harbor Jan 12, 2025, 12:54 AM

#

When you take the arc

obsidian dagger Jan 12, 2025, 12:54 AM

#

Indomitable is... weird.

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 12:54 AM

#

indomitable is quite weird

#

and seems to have links TO holy

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 12:55 AM

#

fleet harbor This is why I have both XD

:333

obsidian dagger Jan 12, 2025, 12:55 AM

#

Red is always about the facile perceptive stuff, so it makes sense to me that its control over the world would be in the facile perceptive stuff like "where there's good lighting".

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 12:55 AM

#

no yeah

#

it can do that

#

thats just not what im talking about though

obsidian dagger Jan 12, 2025, 12:55 AM

#

Fair enough. I think it's an analogue to what you're talking about, though.

#

Indomitable is also missing some sort of affordance, unless you count Seize the Intangible (and I don't, in part because once you do it, other people can too for the scene).

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 12:56 AM

#

chosen one lets you say that there is an enemy that exists and has forces that are organized and genuine antagonists
Gatekeeper lets you establish an entire dynamic of Other
Child of the ash lets you declare a world, that kinda does exist

#

primordial gets fuzzy but the whole...being an extension/indivisibly your element does establish you as part of the setting, kinda like jasper being the sun

#

allegory...a bit less so but gives you the tools to establish stuff

#

its interesting

obsidian dagger Jan 12, 2025, 12:57 AM

#

Allegory defines a history for you; it just does it over the course of play.

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 12:57 AM

#

yeah

#

its over the course of play

#

i dont deny that it does that

#

and that fits in how its immortal

obsidian dagger Jan 12, 2025, 12:57 AM

#

Indomitable feels like it's missing some stuff, though. I don't know how else to phrase it.

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 12:58 AM

#

it takes some getting used to

#

but i do really find it interesting

obsidian dagger Jan 12, 2025, 12:58 AM

#

It is interesting.

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 12:58 AM

#

honestly....HONESTLY

#

heres an observation

#

and it is a flawed observation

#

i will preface this notion with that

#

but it is one

#

Holy and Indomitable are some of the only immortal arcs that arent elemental

by that i mean, they might not...empower or be relevant to an 'estate'

#

of course, they both have authorities and things

#

they both have taboos and ways to punish those who break those tabboos

#

and holy's divine warrant could connect back to it

#

but

#

theyre far less explicitly elemental

obsidian dagger Jan 12, 2025, 1:00 AM

#

Holy is... perceptual. Red stuff is. It's not the elements. It's the stage lighting, which is arguably a different kind of element.

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 1:00 AM

#

even chosen one is said to have some authority

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 1:00 AM

#

obsidian dagger Holy is... perceptual. Red stuff is. It's not the elements. It's the stage li...

right

#

it is

obsidian dagger Jan 12, 2025, 1:00 AM

#

And Divine Mandate is usually some kind of... well, authority, at least conceptually.

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 1:00 AM

#

it is

vivid wraith Jan 12, 2025, 1:00 AM

#

frank light theyre far less explicitly elemental

This is true yeah

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 1:00 AM

#

though not "estate based"

obsidian dagger Jan 12, 2025, 1:00 AM

#

It's like... the trappings of office, more so than the actual underpinnings.

#

And then there's Indomitable which just doesn't have any sort of clear ability to define anything about the world or any clear affordance.

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 1:01 AM

#

they do have anti-tabboo measures

#

though
i guess im not really on board with "immortal arcs have to have an affordance"

#

this is mostly just some interesting observations in the differences between some arcs

obsidian dagger Jan 12, 2025, 1:02 AM

#

Indomitable... I... guess the implication would be that you can inflict your Curse on others as a Tribulation? And implicitly the curse exists even when you don't inflict it on others? Like if your curse is vampirism, being Indomitable defines vampirism as a Thing?

vivid wraith Jan 12, 2025, 1:02 AM

#

the affordance thing feels very difficult to prove it doesn't apply to frantic or sickly arcs

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 1:03 AM

#

indomitable doesnt feel like it needs to establish much about the world

#

arguably its about being alien to the world (in an immortal way instead of a sickly way)

obsidian dagger Jan 12, 2025, 1:03 AM

#

vivid wraith the affordance thing feels very difficult to prove it *doesn't* apply to frantic...

Fair enough. There's probably a bit of confirmation bias going on with me.

vivid wraith Jan 12, 2025, 1:03 AM

#

like is "can talk to an element" less of an affordance than "can eat anything"

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 1:03 AM

#

da moncher

obsidian dagger Jan 12, 2025, 1:03 AM

#

Well, talking to fire wouldn't otherwise be wrong in any definition of the word... but I take your point.

#

Because it requires some stretched definitions.

#

I think there's still something there though, in parallel between Divine Mandate, and Child of the Ash's "the HG should accept your excuses for why you turning into a giant snake doesn't fall afoul of the campaign property".

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 4:53 PM

#

vivid wraith Jan 12, 2025, 4:53 PM

#

bigbrain

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 5:03 PM

#

It’s genius

strange raptor Jan 12, 2025, 5:13 PM

#

brilliant gambit

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 5:13 PM

#

This is what it means to have true power

#

you wouldn’t understand Archivist
When I become king of the new world I can finally be a woman!

“Jonah wha-“

Nothing

restive ridge Jan 12, 2025, 5:27 PM

#

frank light

It all makes sense

gloomy oasis Jan 12, 2025, 10:03 PM

#

frank light

Feeling incredibly called out here, except for the "perfect" part.

frank light Jan 12, 2025, 10:04 PM

#

lmao

narrow tartan Jan 12, 2025, 11:12 PM

#

Power of Toy Dinosaurs

vivid wraith Jan 12, 2025, 11:15 PM

#

please

#

need

#

they're perfect

narrow tartan Jan 12, 2025, 11:24 PM

#

...are fun for all ages.
...cannot eat you.```

narrow tartan Jan 12, 2025, 11:39 PM

#

...are incorrectly colored.

vivid wraith Jan 12, 2025, 11:51 PM

#

"tiny"

#

get that on there too

narrow tartan Jan 12, 2025, 11:54 PM

#

Not 100% on that one

obsidian dagger Jan 13, 2025, 3:57 AM

#

slightly grusome quote from something I'm reading, from a god talking in a way which seems very relevant to this:

||“I am she that eats her young in famine, he who holds his own entrails on the battlefield, the heat that ruptured the universe into itself. I am Prometheus, Lucifer, Enki, and Anansi! I am that which brought fire and hunger to the world, stirring the dirt to mud with blood and breathing flame into its veins.”||

#

The one saying this is (and this is actually slight spoilers, if you care) ||Desire||.

#

...this story is making me wonder about a Nobilis plot hook, where... I could imagine certain Imperators and similar powers having substantial trouble successfully differentiating different subsequent Nobles of the same domain. So they might think you know some secret that your predecessor knew, and act accordingly, even though you actually don't. Or hold some inherited grudge.

frank light Jan 13, 2025, 4:09 AM

#

oooo

#

fun

restive ridge Jan 13, 2025, 6:25 AM

#

Now Im remembering my Serpent of Gacha, whose Nobles have an unusually short lifespan on average

vivid wraith Jan 13, 2025, 6:35 AM

#

ooooh

restive ridge Jan 13, 2025, 7:03 AM

#

#

The average Nobilis PC (the hypothetical in-universe inaccurate Nobilis movie exists to balance the in-universe accurate Nobilis rulebook)

obsidian dagger Jan 13, 2025, 7:05 AM

#

...amazing.

vivid wraith Jan 13, 2025, 7:05 AM

#

does this mean the lord entropy fancam is real

restive ridge Jan 13, 2025, 7:12 AM

#

Yes, if only as part of the experiments for the " Lord Entropy cant be loved" hypothesis

restive ridge Jan 13, 2025, 7:29 AM

#

restive ridge The average Nobilis PC (the hypothetical in-universe inaccurate Nobilis movie ex...

To be clear, by this I mean that in the same way you can explain OOC knowledge at the IC level of eg a young Noble as "they read the rulebook" you can explain any OOC getting rules wrong as "Oh yeah sorry my character watched that fan movie , they got so many details wrong, really butchered Iolithae's character you know"

restive ridge Jan 13, 2025, 4:33 PM

#

Wordgirl is a Deceiver

vivid wraith Jan 13, 2025, 4:34 PM

#

How so

restive ridge Jan 13, 2025, 4:35 PM

#

Solved a mystery plot by tricking the Narrator into letting her look into the next panel

vivid wraith Jan 13, 2025, 4:37 PM

#

amazing

frank light Jan 13, 2025, 5:04 PM

#

Lmao

#

Okay

#

Yeah

#

That’s fair

fleet harbor Jan 13, 2025, 5:13 PM

#

By this logic Gwenpool is also a deceiver

#

Which ... yeah

#

Yeah she is

#

That tracks

restive ridge Jan 13, 2025, 5:38 PM

#

Gwenpool is absolutely a Deceiver

#

(Not because of the 4th wall stuff- she's just transgender)

restive ridge Jan 13, 2025, 7:42 PM

#

"How to build X character in DnD" content slop farm but for Chuubo's

vivid wraith Jan 13, 2025, 7:43 PM

#

meeeeeeee

#

I need this so bad

#

twenty episodes in and they haven't caught on that i'm mostly using Superior (X) to handle the character' main premises

narrow tartan Jan 13, 2025, 7:49 PM

#

Me: Gives shonen protags become somebody. Mind control for everyone!

vivid wraith Jan 13, 2025, 7:49 PM

#

Mind control for everyone!!!!

magic mason Jan 13, 2025, 7:49 PM

#

vivid wraith twenty episodes in and they haven't caught on that i'm mostly using Superior (X)...

You could make a blog out of this/unironically

vivid wraith Jan 13, 2025, 7:50 PM

#

i tried! got one and a half posts into it w/Princess Tutu characters and then cohost exploded

restive ridge Jan 13, 2025, 7:52 PM

#

narrow tartan Me: Gives shonen protags become somebody. Mind control for everyone!

This is the clearest example of being on an Allegory arc in my whole life

narrow tartan Jan 13, 2025, 7:52 PM

#

Interesting

#

Need to finish watching

restive ridge Jan 13, 2025, 7:53 PM

#

||Two villains recruited to the good side, one powerup gained and an essential part of defeating another villain with the power of "Oh yeah btw I'm actually blood related to them"||

narrow tartan Jan 13, 2025, 7:54 PM

#

nods though. That could be sealed (reality syndrome) as well

#

Though. It is maybe to useful to fit

restive ridge Jan 13, 2025, 7:55 PM

#

"Forced Found Family" is a banger Sealed powerset

narrow tartan Jan 13, 2025, 7:57 PM

#

A previous time i tried to shove every shonen character into the same arcset I suggested that Ichigo would have something like that as a Sealed power (I am actually also a whatever)

restive ridge Jan 13, 2025, 8:00 PM

#

Hehehe

#

Tho that's easily covered by Gatecrasher

narrow tartan Jan 13, 2025, 8:13 PM

#

nods the arcset I thiught would fit for anime protags. Was Sentinental, Reality Syndrome, Become Somebody, and Gatecrasher

gloomy oasis Jan 13, 2025, 8:14 PM

#

restive ridge ||Two villains recruited to the good side, one powerup gained and an essential p...

||Steven Universe?||

vivid wraith Jan 13, 2025, 8:14 PM

#

it's wild how Mimic-coded Shirou Emiya is btw

#

i've seen the light

candid compass Jan 13, 2025, 8:16 PM

#

Shirou definitely has Style

#

the other two routes also have some fun stuff with that though

vivid wraith Jan 13, 2025, 8:17 PM

#

It's helped me click with Gatecrasher better because it's not just "you're not supposed to be here" (socially) it's "you're not supposed to do that" (using the powers "wrong" but succeeding anyway)

narrow tartan Jan 13, 2025, 8:23 PM

#

Style/Gatecrasher is very main character

frank light Jan 13, 2025, 8:27 PM

#

vivid wraith It's helped me click with Gatecrasher better because it's not just "you're not s...

Yea

#

Frantic arcs generally have gold main character energy

narrow tartan Jan 13, 2025, 8:45 PM

#

Hmm. Do the Rule and the Game qualify as cosmic horror?

vivid wraith Jan 13, 2025, 8:46 PM

#

I think they're too anthropocentric for that

magic mason Jan 13, 2025, 9:31 PM

#

narrow tartan Hmm. Do the Rule and the Game qualify as cosmic horror?

My personal fav for Cthulhu types is True Gods

Vastness and Symbolic works surprisingly well for it

narrow tartan Jan 13, 2025, 9:47 PM

#

They are definitely rhe most standard cthulhu types.

#

Hmm. Is Gnostic Horror a genre?

vivid wraith Jan 13, 2025, 9:48 PM

#

i don't think so

#

(unless you want to make an argument that's what "cosmic horror" should be called instead)

narrow tartan Jan 13, 2025, 9:50 PM

#

No. Though. I think. Something

#

Thinking a little you could maybe use Rulers for Cosmic Horror by playing up humanities potential to become something inhuman. But not the Game.

obsidian dagger Jan 14, 2025, 1:08 AM

#

Game propaganda would be sports anime, especially the kind that really really really glorifies breaking your body for the win.

#

(weird brain farts there, don't mind me)

#

(Not sure what Rules propaganda would be though)

vivid wraith Jan 14, 2025, 1:10 AM

#

rules propaganda is Trigun

#

game propaganda is Gurren Lagann

fleet harbor Jan 14, 2025, 2:20 AM

#

~~Serpent propaganda is Eureka Seven~~

#

~~Wild propaganda is The Big O~~

vivid wraith Jan 14, 2025, 2:20 AM

#

hahahhahahahhahhahhha

fleet harbor Jan 14, 2025, 2:21 AM

#

~~How shocking that my two favorite mecha shows are being associated with my two favorite imperator types~~

vivid wraith Jan 14, 2025, 2:22 AM

#

what a fortuitous coincidence

obsidian dagger Jan 14, 2025, 2:41 AM

#

I think that getting into a mech isn't always Child of the Ash, but if that mech bursts out of the ground as the pilot enters it, then it's definitely Child of the Ash.

#

or whatever Star Driver's doing, which feels like Child of the Ash but possibly something more Red instead? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5NTMFraP2Y

YouTube

electrosk

Star Driver - Dazzeling the stage! HD

i don't own this fabulous shit !!

▶ Play video

fleet harbor Jan 14, 2025, 2:47 AM

#

I was talking with Karen the other day about how Child of the Ash is very puberty-coded

#

Just as you're starting to get a sense of who you are, your body gets big and gangly and awkward and you can't control it and you seem to be doing everything wrong

#

But slowly, you get used to it, and you realize abilities you'd never dreamed of before

#

And ... yeah that works for Star Driver :D

obsidian dagger Jan 14, 2025, 2:50 AM

#

I sort of feel like I ought to finish it at some point but ehh... it got kind of dull towards the middle and I set it down and never picked it up again. And for an anime as "dazzling" and over-the-top as Star Driver, "dull" is kind of a death sentence.

#

also the whole "magic lust perfume causes earthquakes" thing was just a bit too stupid for me.

vivid wraith Jan 14, 2025, 2:56 AM

#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cErgMJSgpv0

narrow tartan Jan 14, 2025, 3:01 AM

#

Tactics and threat are hard to balance in Nobilis

#

Like. Powers are very capable of just rolling over most opposition

#

But. Something. Just. Getting people to engage with stuff they could squish?

vivid wraith Jan 14, 2025, 3:04 AM

#

That's some of the gameplay logic behind Entropy's laws

#

if you strike first full power every time, things get boring

narrow tartan Jan 14, 2025, 3:05 AM

#

nods makes sense

vivid wraith Jan 14, 2025, 3:05 AM

#

so you need to restrict yourself somewhat to avoid attracting attention

#

or, from another perspective: it makes going full strength a meaningful commitment, not an instinct

frank light Jan 14, 2025, 3:17 AM

#

fleet harbor I was talking with Karen the other day about how Child of the Ash is very pubert...

so true

magic mason Jan 14, 2025, 4:36 AM

#

Had an estate idea

Mud....
Chokes 
Imprisons
Steal what you care about 
Punishes Heroes 
Is underestimated

#

Estate of Mud, but not like "water and dirt mud"

Mud as an almost otherworldly force on the battlefield that devours cannons and chariots and men whole

vestal mist Jan 14, 2025, 4:47 AM

#

So Paaschendale Mud in particular?

magic mason Jan 14, 2025, 4:50 AM

#

vestal mist So Paaschendale Mud in particular?

Paaschendale is just a single instance of the history of Mud as a Monsterous Third Party in war

Napolean listed it as one of his elements for a reason
you can see stories from.... basically all of history of Mud just... wreaking havoc

vestal mist Jan 14, 2025, 4:51 AM

#

Yeah

narrow tartan Jan 14, 2025, 4:51 AM

#

Huh. I should use single word verb properties more.

#

and. Napoleon elements? Of warfare? or something esoterric and interesting (to me)

vestal mist Jan 14, 2025, 4:51 AM

#

I wasn't meaning that in isolation, just the Vibe

restive ridge Jan 14, 2025, 5:03 AM

#

vivid wraith it's wild how Mimic-coded Shirou Emiya is btw

Real

#

His backstory fits the Mimic told too

vivid wraith Jan 14, 2025, 5:03 AM

#

yeah!

restive ridge Jan 14, 2025, 5:10 AM

#

Kiritsugu Strategist ...

restive ridge Jan 14, 2025, 6:38 AM

#

True God propaganda is every single isekai with diegetic videogame-style stat screens

vivid wraith Jan 14, 2025, 6:41 AM

#

yeah

narrow tartan Jan 14, 2025, 6:47 AM

#

Hmm? Why?

obsidian dagger Jan 14, 2025, 6:48 AM

#

it's the person being lost behind the meat. It's numbers. Fight. Win. Eat. Grow.

narrow tartan Jan 14, 2025, 6:49 AM

#

Huh. I can sort of see that

frank light Jan 14, 2025, 6:49 AM

#

true god appreciation dayyyyy

magic mason Jan 14, 2025, 6:50 AM

#

frank light true god appreciation dayyyyy

True gods are high up on my romancability chart and I will defend this choice

obsidian dagger Jan 14, 2025, 6:50 AM

#

It's honestly probably like one of those... really really old graphics-less simulation games. People are just numbers.

narrow tartan Jan 14, 2025, 6:50 AM

#

Oddly. I think the fact that true gods only have Enlightenment and Being Transformed as plot arcs is oddly fitting

frank light Jan 14, 2025, 6:50 AM

#

jasper really made it click for me

#

the biggest most powerful godlike animist spirits of things

#

full of so much symbology

restive ridge Jan 14, 2025, 6:58 AM

#

obsidian dagger It's honestly probably like one of those... really really old graphics-less simu...

Progress Quest is a True God.

vestal mist Jan 14, 2025, 6:59 AM

#

Wait

#

JM wrote for EXALTED?

restive ridge Jan 14, 2025, 7:01 AM

#

Why do you think the Sidereal are like that? (Exaggerating, but she did write a lot of good stuff for 1e)

frank light Jan 14, 2025, 7:04 AM

#

Yeah

#

Jenna did a lot of good work

vestal mist Jan 14, 2025, 7:05 AM

#

I suspect a lot of the diegetic fiction, too

obsidian dagger Jan 14, 2025, 7:08 AM

#

Honestly, I saw her influence more in the way the fey work, from the tiny amount I know about them.

#

or even the general idea that reality is a bubble of Is in the midst of inchoate Not.

vestal mist Jan 14, 2025, 7:09 AM

#

Mmmm

#

'Swhat I meant

fleet harbor Jan 14, 2025, 11:24 AM

#

vestal mist JM wrote for EXALTED?

Back in 1E. Before that she wrote for In Nomine, and she also wrote Weapons of the Gods, a wuxia game which was uber-popular on rpg.net for a while.

narrow tartan Jan 14, 2025, 4:00 PM

#

She was involved with the yozi to some extent

#

And I think wrote the 2e corebook solar charmset

fleet harbor Jan 14, 2025, 4:03 PM

#

Oh, huh

#

Didn’t think she had anything to do with 2e

candid compass Jan 14, 2025, 4:04 PM

#

I know she wrote some of the stuff on the Forest Witches
Which, tracks entirely tbh

fleet harbor Jan 14, 2025, 4:04 PM

#

Ye

narrow tartan Jan 14, 2025, 4:10 PM

#

Used to use the pename Rebecca Borgstrom

fleet harbor Jan 14, 2025, 5:00 PM

#

Yeah, folks called her work Borgstromancy

#

There was a certain mystique ascribed to a lot of Exalted’s early writers

#

Like a fan site that kept various statements from them in the formulation of “thus spake Za(writer’s last name)”

#

(That’s where I read that in 1E the intent was that without player intervention, Creation is a tragedy)

grand knot Jan 14, 2025, 7:19 PM

#

What is the difference between deceivers and generals, beyond the powers, deceivers focusing more on the world being fake rather than bad, and generals dying?

vivid wraith Jan 14, 2025, 7:19 PM

#

You mean Strategists?

patent tiger Jan 14, 2025, 7:19 PM

#

Generals?

grand knot Jan 14, 2025, 7:19 PM

#

Oh yeah strategists

#

Damn

patent tiger Jan 14, 2025, 7:20 PM

#

If you mean Strategists, then, yeah, the two are different in ideology alongside powerset

vivid wraith Jan 14, 2025, 7:20 PM

#

Deceivers will say they love you

patent tiger Jan 14, 2025, 7:20 PM

#

The Deceiver party line is - there exists a true essence of the world underneath everything, underneath everyone, and the more parts of it we peel away and destroy, the more one can access that true perfect existence

#

So they'll claim benevolence while killing you

vivid wraith Jan 14, 2025, 7:20 PM

#

They want what's best for you, but not the "you" you think you are, the "you" that fits with their own unique understanding of what the world really is

#

Strategists hate the world entirely

patent tiger Jan 14, 2025, 7:21 PM

#

Strategists are moralizers. The world is morally and ontologically evil, and deserves to be destroyed

vivid wraith Jan 14, 2025, 7:21 PM

#

vivid wraith Strategists hate the world entirely

(the feeling is mutual)

patent tiger Jan 14, 2025, 7:21 PM

#

And, yes, Strategists are afflicted with a wasting illness-curse that kills them repeatedly

#

Strategists conceptualize the existence of some weird parallel Not-universe outside reality that is morally defensible and once they destroy Creation everything will just be that perfect Not-world

#

They get really mad if you compare this belief to Deceiver ideology

grand knot Jan 14, 2025, 7:22 PM

#

patent tiger The Deceiver party line is - there exists a true essence of the world underneath...

Oh cool. That's what I wss wondering about

#

Their beliefs are really similar huh

patent tiger Jan 14, 2025, 7:24 PM

#

I think both of them as groups would take umbrage with that perspective, but, from a Creational lens, they very much are

candid compass Jan 14, 2025, 7:32 PM

#

Strategists are very acrid and hateful

#

they have been wronged by the world, and they lash out in vengeful anger in response

#

Deceivers want to enlighten you, they want you to understand

#

so that you might see the Truth underneath all that grimy Creation

#

that you experience terror at the thought of them taking away who you are bit by bit just indicates how trapped you are in the Lie

magic mason Jan 14, 2025, 7:38 PM

#

grand knot What is the difference between deceivers and generals, beyond the powers, deceiv...

Th way strategist say it is that

Strategists think the world is wrong, like morally, things existing is wicked and bad and fucking twisted and they all deserve to burn for it.

Deceivers think the world is wrong, as in factually. And they want to free people from that lie by destroying it because they love you. They love the platonic you, not your eyes or your mind or your soul, just you.

Strategists sometimes find this annoying because its like hearing someone start arguing with A Modest Proposal that there aren’t nearly enough children to feed the population of Ireland instead of arguing that eating children is bad

fleet harbor Jan 14, 2025, 7:39 PM

#

Strategists also identify strongly with the Not as a not-actual not-place, Ninuan

#

They claim to be reborn of its nobility

#

Meanwhile, Deceivers can't effectively navigate the Not and tend to argue that Ninuan is a concept used to frame Excrucian arguments

#

Rather than something that literally not-exists

#

(Strategists, warmains, and weirdly enough lords of games are all comfortable navigating the Not and would argue that Ninuan is very much a not-place)

#

(It's not actually that weird but that gets into the weeds on some stuff)

magic mason Jan 14, 2025, 7:44 PM

#

There is also the power set distinction

Deceivers are Cult Leaders and false prophets. Master manipulators wielding “hacked” divinity that centers around dragging people kicking and screaming into a world where the Deciever is the main character.

Strategists meanwhile, are JRPG final bosses, lich lords with unfathomable destructive power, tricky specialized powers, and hordes of bound monsters and relics from places beyond the world

fleet harbor Jan 14, 2025, 7:46 PM

#

Yeah, deceivers are not typically terrifying fighters in particular

#

Unless they steal that power set

#

Strategists uh

magic mason Jan 14, 2025, 7:46 PM

#

Strategists will crash out over nothing

#

Strategists will rip their arm to hit you with it

#

And it will destroy your soul

restive ridge Jan 14, 2025, 7:48 PM

#

Deceivers will destroy your interpersonal relationships while fighting you on accident

vivid wraith Jan 14, 2025, 7:48 PM

#

did some small Heart-Eater updates

fleet harbor Jan 14, 2025, 7:48 PM

#

The Strategist power set involves: (a) being unfathomably stylish and using that stylishness to kick your ass, (b) claiming dominion over swathes of Ninuan and beating you with them, (c) bonding with and gaining mastery over things of Creation in a very direct way, and (d) just fucking annihilating stuff and hitting it with their personal curse, now externalized

narrow tartan Jan 14, 2025, 7:49 PM

#

I think. I find Strategists the most trustworthy

fleet harbor Jan 14, 2025, 7:49 PM

#

Strategists are in some ways the easiest to empathize with for me as well

restive ridge Jan 14, 2025, 7:50 PM

#

I think I find it hard for me to sympathise with Strategists, but I empathise with them personally

fleet harbor Jan 14, 2025, 7:50 PM

#

Yeah, I empathize but don't exactly sympathize

#

But I do get all of them to an extent, except warmains, which naturally means warmains fascinate me

frank light Jan 14, 2025, 7:51 PM

#

fleet harbor The Strategist power set involves: (a) being unfathomably stylish and using that...

and scheming

fleet harbor Jan 14, 2025, 7:51 PM

#

The three other classes of excrucian embody "hurt people hurt people"

#

Warmains on the other hand, are here for the war

#

(Oversimplification)

magic mason Jan 14, 2025, 7:52 PM

#

I tend to frame it like this

Strategists are creatures of hate and Justice
Deceivers of love and truth
Mimics of paranoia and delirium
Warmains are of desperation and monstrosity

frank light Jan 14, 2025, 7:52 PM

#

They’re searching for something

magic mason Jan 14, 2025, 7:52 PM

#

Strategists are royalty, Warmains are heroes

#

For strategists the void is an escape from creation
For Warmains the void is their life, their home, under attack by creation

frank light Jan 14, 2025, 7:53 PM

#

I mean

#

I think actually it’s mixed there

magic mason Jan 14, 2025, 7:53 PM

#

That’s true

frank light Jan 14, 2025, 7:53 PM

#

The void is a strategists home more often than not

magic mason Jan 14, 2025, 7:53 PM

#

I was more making a comparison between Sanctuary and Desmene

frank light Jan 14, 2025, 7:53 PM

#

That’s fair

#

Still though strategists are very good navigators of the void typically

magic mason Jan 14, 2025, 7:54 PM

#

Strategist is “the void heals you”
Warmain is “the void needs you”

frank light Jan 14, 2025, 7:54 PM

#

They’re worse at living in creation really

fleet harbor Jan 14, 2025, 7:54 PM

#

I don't think warmains are particularly offended by Creation, but they're here for plunder

#

A much more conceptual sort of plunder than usual

frank light Jan 14, 2025, 7:54 PM

#

All of their stats indicate something they’re searching for

#

And by all i just mean 2

#

I guess

#

The other two embody alien laws but y’know

Architect and hunter are…hunting for something

restive ridge Jan 14, 2025, 7:55 PM

#

Warmains see Creation as either disgusting trash or Worthiness

fleet harbor Jan 14, 2025, 7:55 PM

#

But to some degree they're the wolves at the gate, and they become a lot more interesting after that starts to change

#

See also: Janecenas

frank light Jan 14, 2025, 7:55 PM

#

Yeah

#

Awwww

restive ridge Jan 14, 2025, 7:55 PM

#

They arent as mercenary in the war as a lot of fans conceptualise them

frank light Jan 14, 2025, 7:55 PM

#

I’m glad Jane was a hit

fleet harbor Jan 14, 2025, 7:56 PM

#

Yeah they're not like being paid in plunder, they're just ... you might almost describe it as sifting through trash

#

They're trying to find cool shit

#

Dumpster diving

narrow tartan Jan 14, 2025, 7:56 PM

#

For me its not about empathy or sympathy. Just. in a way they seem safest? At least some of the time

frank light Jan 14, 2025, 7:57 PM

#

Nolan might actually be really close to warmain vibes, in tma chuubos game

magic mason Jan 14, 2025, 7:57 PM

#

Here is the thing though

They do need it

#

Like its not just a want they are seeking in creation

frank light Jan 14, 2025, 7:57 PM

#

Sure he’s got domain but he does also have architect and a deep relationship with his minions and his demesne

magic mason Jan 14, 2025, 7:57 PM

#

Their world, their life is rotting due to its lack

frank light Jan 14, 2025, 7:57 PM

#

@vivid wraith congrats ur a titular warmain

vivid wraith Jan 14, 2025, 7:57 PM

#

yaaaaaaay

fleet harbor Jan 14, 2025, 7:58 PM

#

I think need and want are not necessarily fully discrete things for a warmain in their primal, pre-Tempered form

magic mason Jan 14, 2025, 7:58 PM

#

frank light Sure he’s got domain but he does also have architect and a deep relationship wit...

Architect is in my mind “the warmain state” even though like two other splats have it

Also 3e Warmains have domain

#

So its not the craziest leap

frank light Jan 14, 2025, 7:58 PM

#

frank light Sure he’s got domain but he does also have architect and a deep relationship wit...

The lodge, his demesne, is a place of healing and rest and gives life, but it’s people critically lack purpose and hope.

Without Nolan the place was in disrepair, literally falling apart

#

It needed him To keep it alive, same with its minions

#

It is a place that lacks hope and purpose

#

To which Nolan is doing his best to find and provide it

#

And it’s also an old and mythical place, which contributes to the spiritual stuff

#

Also the fucker shapeshifts-

magic mason Jan 14, 2025, 8:01 PM

#

magic mason Architect is in my mind “the warmain state” even though like two other splats ha...

Some earlier versions of architect apparently even had domain style power over the special element within their Desmene

fleet harbor Jan 14, 2025, 8:02 PM

#

A warmain is a creature of action by nature. It does what it wants. It spits in the eye of those who oppose it and, should they prove worthy in the resulting fight, eats their heart. It is, to borrow a phrase, "a continuous cutting motion". But when its belly is full, and it sits fat and sated, that is when the angst starts.

frank light Jan 14, 2025, 8:02 PM

#

So true

magic mason Jan 14, 2025, 8:03 PM

#

Warmains also have that… Demon The Descent angst sometimes

Ya know, being a perfect simulacrum of someone else who you murdered

#

Can be hard emotionally

vivid wraith Jan 14, 2025, 8:04 PM

#

skill issue

#

^Actual post

magic mason Jan 14, 2025, 8:05 PM

#

Funnily enough Actuals also have architect

narrow tartan Jan 14, 2025, 10:21 PM

#

So, Sealed tends to be, "Thing that really should be really useful but often isn't as much as you would think"?

frank light Jan 14, 2025, 10:22 PM

#

more or less

narrow tartan Jan 14, 2025, 10:22 PM

#

Would, "Skill that more userul than it should be," also a valid design space?

frank light Jan 14, 2025, 10:22 PM

#

and also just as importantly

#

the Experience

frank light Jan 14, 2025, 10:22 PM

#

narrow tartan Would, "Skill that more userul than it should be," also a valid design space?

yeah

#

arguably thats gatecrasher sometimes

#

or adept/chosen one sometimes

#

since it revolves around 1 supernatural skill

narrow tartan Jan 14, 2025, 10:23 PM

#

Watching JJKS. And. Todo is. Something

candid compass Jan 14, 2025, 10:25 PM

#

narrow tartan Would, "Skill that more userul than it should be," also a valid design space?

that feels like Style yeah

narrow tartan Jan 14, 2025, 10:27 PM

#

Interesting

fleet harbor Jan 14, 2025, 10:35 PM

#

That's a lot of more particular miracles if you get creative

narrow tartan Jan 14, 2025, 10:58 PM

#

Honestly. Yuji. Could have Holy?

#

Specifically.

#

Transition?

obsidian dagger Jan 14, 2025, 11:07 PM

#

I'm trying to figure out what a certain thing is, and I could see it as Green or Blue or maybe even Red. But, basically... in the fiction I'm reading, there's a certain kind of necromancy. And everyone thinks this necromancy is cruel and awful and evil and bad and you shouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole. ...except the main character, who believes that very specific portions of this technique can be repurposed for use in healing and medicine, and that it isn't entirely evil (it's just being used for evil). And the narrative ||seems to be suporting this perspective, even as lots of characters tell the main character "hey this thing is evil and you shouldn't touch it and honestly it's weird that you're so interested in it".||

candid compass Jan 14, 2025, 11:07 PM

#

that's Blue

vivid wraith Jan 14, 2025, 11:09 PM

#

yeah that's blue

fleet harbor Jan 14, 2025, 11:25 PM

#

Definitely blue unless there's a sudden reversal of course

obsidian dagger Jan 14, 2025, 11:31 PM

#

Yeah it's probably Blue. There's... honestly, there's an argument for this character on Gatekeeper, Gatecrasher, or Wounded Angel.

#

I also thought Blue usually was more explicit that this forbidden knowledge was a Bad Idea, but I guess it can also apply to maligned visionaries.

#

He's probably... actually? He's probably Blue/Silver/Green/Gold maybe. ...although there's an argument for Orange, or for Purple (specifically Impressario, actually). But he's doing Blue stuff, and I think he has Renegade judging by his stealth abilities and the number of events he has to survive, and he's definitely on something Green because he's slowly becoming more snake-like.

vivid wraith Jan 14, 2025, 11:37 PM

#

banana you just named every arc except for Black

obsidian dagger Jan 14, 2025, 11:37 PM

#

and red.

#

I didn't mention red. ~~I considered it, but I didn't mention it.~~

vivid wraith Jan 14, 2025, 11:37 PM

#

obsidian dagger I'm trying to figure out what a certain thing is, and I could see it as Green or...

you got red up here

obsidian dagger Jan 14, 2025, 11:37 PM

#

True, but that was discarded.

#

I'm having trouble pinning him down, okay.

#

My current guess is Blue, Silver, Green, and either Gold or Purple but probably Gold. And I don't think any splat has that color breakdown, do they?

#

also, someone casually providing a good example of an alternate way to interpret a domain (since I'm rereading it and feel like sharing):

A bowl is most useful when it is empty. Emptiness is not bleak. Emptiness is potential. It is a possibility. It is boundless. It is the hope for something good.

candid compass Jan 14, 2025, 11:41 PM

#

obsidian dagger I also thought Blue usually was more explicit that this forbidden knowledge was ...

the thing you deal with on a Blue arc need not necessarily be bad or evil, just forbidden and taboo

frank light Jan 14, 2025, 11:41 PM

#

Yeah

#

It’s not necessarily evil at all!

#

Sometimes it’s divine beings

#

Strategists often have nobles or imperators as binding partners

fleet harbor Jan 14, 2025, 11:41 PM

#

~~sometimes it's evil divine beings~~

frank light Jan 14, 2025, 11:41 PM

#

That’s true

obsidian dagger Jan 14, 2025, 11:41 PM

#

Okay, yeah, this definitely counts as that. It doesn't help that the technique is first introduced being used for evil by an evil person.

frank light Jan 14, 2025, 11:41 PM

#

Yeah!

#

Plus strategist gatekeeper is less about your other being evil and more that it is unnatural to Creation

#

But within the void it is very natural and normal

fleet harbor Jan 14, 2025, 11:42 PM

#

Gatekeeper's, shall we say, contradictory aspect is mostly about hubris

#

Whereas Wounded Angel's is about ... living with and growing out of trauma?

obsidian dagger Jan 14, 2025, 11:44 PM

#

Wounded Angel is about being the boundary. Sometimes it can be about growing out of trauma, sure. But I don't think it's just that.

#

One angle which I don't see enough of is Wounded Angels whose Blasphemy wants to support and care for and help them... and who's still a Blasphemy because their idea of "help" does not necessarily at all match what the Wounded Angel actually wants.

obsidian dagger Jan 15, 2025, 2:51 AM

#

can someone here type up a brief "elevator pitch" for nobilis and/or its related games? I'm always bad at coming up with one but find myself in need of one.

reef perch Jan 15, 2025, 2:54 AM

#

i'll see what i can cook up

patent tiger Jan 15, 2025, 3:00 AM

#

Nobilis is an urban fantasy god game heavy on the politicking and philosophical warfare, centering on a war to save reality from destruction

#

That's the pithy shortform one I do, and then I elaborate as needed based on the questions or interests people have

vivid wraith Jan 15, 2025, 3:12 AM

#

Far Roofs is portal fantasy adventure alongside heroic rats and monstrous gods

restive ridge Jan 15, 2025, 4:55 AM

#

fleet harbor ~~sometimes it's evil divine beings~~

To me, all divine beings are evil

frank light Jan 15, 2025, 5:53 AM

#

Glitch is about playing as the former antagonists of a pre-existing god game setting, as nihilistic death gods. But you're trying to live life day by day in retirement and it can be hard

fleet harbor Jan 15, 2025, 10:19 AM

#

I'd add the worse "diceless" to both of those pitches

#

And maybe something about how the mechanics focus on creative management of resources

restive ridge Jan 15, 2025, 11:13 AM

#

Chuubo is about being a teenager in an iddyllic home town if going through puberty could transform you into a literal kaiju

fleet harbor Jan 15, 2025, 11:16 AM

#

Also he has a marvelous wish-granting engine

frank light Jan 15, 2025, 2:57 PM

#

This is true

restive ridge Jan 15, 2025, 5:13 PM

#

fleet harbor Also he has a marvelous wish-granting engine

...And there's a random cunty sapient wish-granting machine

candid compass Jan 15, 2025, 5:15 PM

#

Lilimund Cartaign, gentlewoman adventuress

fleet harbor Jan 15, 2025, 5:22 PM

#

to be tbh I might want to play Lilimund in a Town game

#

"The woman who lives inside Chuubo's Marvelous Wish-Granting Engine" is just a funny concept to me

candid compass Jan 15, 2025, 5:33 PM

#

there is a whole steampunk dimension inside the Engine, that she has to maintain
while also doing secret adventure things around Town

magic mason Jan 15, 2025, 5:34 PM

#

Iirc she uses Actual arcs my default

candid compass Jan 15, 2025, 5:34 PM

#

yeah she has Style

frank light Jan 15, 2025, 5:34 PM

#

Oh that would make sense

candid compass Jan 15, 2025, 5:34 PM

#

with her secret world being like the secret world of spirits or something IIRC

magic mason Jan 15, 2025, 5:34 PM

#

Style/Deepness or something

candid compass Jan 15, 2025, 5:34 PM

#

she can see the hidden object spirits around Town

#

the gender swap for Lilimund is extra funny though
because it's Laodemus Schwan

#

Seizhi's brother

#

who just also happens to be the incarnate spirit of the Marvelous Wish Granting Engine

#

and also a mysterious masked wrestler

frank light Jan 15, 2025, 6:12 PM

#

Oh my god

narrow tartan Jan 15, 2025, 6:36 PM

#

?

narrow tartan Jan 16, 2025, 12:03 AM

#

Lupe is no good at being an excrucian

candid compass Jan 16, 2025, 12:05 AM

#

I think that's because Lupe is the most normal member of their familia

narrow tartan Jan 16, 2025, 12:19 AM

#

Also I'm a softie.

obsidian dagger Jan 16, 2025, 1:02 AM

#

I was thinking about my idea for a noble of Pain again, and... well, Pain teaches lessons, and it somehow came to the idea that some of the concepts would go decently for a teacher at School (all of whom are evil, wicked, and/or cruel).

#

Because... ultimately, Pain isn't evil. It's the awareness of evil. Without pain, you could still be injured; you just wouldn't know it. And it feels fitting for a School teacher to represent that, as a way to make a teacher who was metaphysically evil but also ultimately sympathetic and reasonable. Of course, that risks sort of butting heads with one of the Six Sins (I forget his name, but his sin is in exalting the way in which struggle can bring about virtue so much that he's forgotten virtue doesn't have to arise from suffering) but I feel like there's something there?

#

Probably something involving Creature of Delirium. I don't think they'd literally be pain at that point, but moreso an awareness of wickedness.

#

...it would be really funny if one of the teachers at School was a Mystery that rats would occasionally quest against.

#

I say, forgetting that Typhon already kind of sort of has a teacher writeup as the alt-version of Psalida Ceasar aka Sa'a Lingurth.

fleet harbor Jan 16, 2025, 2:41 AM

#

Karen did a power of agony who was John Wick’s dead wife

#

And also was a spider made of knives

frank light Jan 16, 2025, 2:46 AM

#

i did do that!

#

she was very motherly and did not like it when people get hurt

#

but also

#

she is the power of agony

#

let me see if I can find what her properties were

#


Estate: AGONY
Overwhelms defenses(2)
Brings forth harm(1)
Stays with you(2)
Cannot be pleasant(1)
Lives in scars(1)

#

Skills and Passions (8/8 points)
Passion: I want to care of people(1)
Passion: I want to feel okay again(0)
Passion: I like gardening(1)
Skill: Law(4)
Skill: Sword Fighting(2)

magic mason Jan 16, 2025, 5:13 AM

#

Been getting up to some REAL Deciever behavior

and by that I mean bothering an extremly pissed off noble trying to get them to tell me their credit card information especially those three funny numbers on the back
(second skin project)

narrow tartan Jan 16, 2025, 4:56 PM

#

nods

frank light Jan 16, 2025, 10:18 PM

#

restive ridge Jan 17, 2025, 7:42 AM

#

The Angelic Estate of "Stop Laughing"

narrow tartan Jan 17, 2025, 2:03 PM

#

Alleyorical as bad video game retcons

restive ridge Jan 17, 2025, 2:13 PM

#

Cooking

fleet harbor Jan 17, 2025, 5:24 PM

#

So

#

Did some body horror for my first Kaiju Form

||The first agony is in our bones. Bone is described as partially composed of metalloid substance, and we feel it crack and split apart from internal pressure as our marrow explosively multiplies, than rebuild itself into a variant alloy of high-speed steel that includes its constituent calcium carbonate. The number of our bones additionally doubles, and we scream even through our half-consciousness as our skin and muscles strain to keep pace with the expansion.

This phase of the transformation comprises 31.4 seconds of subjective time. At it's completion we are approximately four meters tall, bulging, twisting, red and purple, but still humanoid discounting the enormous lumps that have begun to form in the position of our shoulder blades.

The screaming is interspersed with begging as the second phase commences, both to the empty air and to a nonexistent higher power, as our organs begin to fail, in particular our heart and brain, overtaxed by our new scale and lack of sufficient blood. Our greatly expanded marrow begins to correct this error with the production of Phase 3 blood, which carries particulate nanomaterial to our organs, allowing their expansion, rebuilding, and recombination. At 71.8 seconds of total transformation time, we weakly invoke Aoede by her secondary appellation, Dee, followed by Nolan Nolan, Melanie King, Georgie Barker, the Prince under the appellation "Mandibles", Rosie, and then a repetition of the name Dee.

These requests for aid are ineffective and last another 42.3 seconds, by which point the gearwork of our joints has been sufficiently constructed to allow appropriate reconfiguration of our skin and muscles into a position that allows them to turn more freely, as well as expose them to the open air, in which capacity they serve as a heatsink for our rapidly elevating body temperature.

At 134.1 seconds, we briefly cease vocalization and collapse.||

#

||At 144.1 seconds, we regain full consciousness and continue to scream, but more faintly.

At 150 seconds, configuration is complete and the last of our screams die down. We stand and assess our new form. Data from this period is incomplete, but indicates self-perception as:

A 432 centimeter tall humanoid with biological limb segments connected by clockwork joints, with black-hued Phase 4 skin;

Three pairs of visibly mechanical wing structures, with a black-hued Phase 4 skin membrane stretched across them and a partial covering of polymerized flight feathers, extruding from the rear of our torso;

Green-glowing Eyes 2 which can perceive all physical and supernatural spectra;

200 centimeter strands of weaponized prehensile autocable hanging from our scalp; and,

General surprise at awareness of the specificity of our current capabilities.

As this was the initial transformation, full configuration into the 100-meter non-humanoid model was deemed inadvisable.||

restive ridge Jan 17, 2025, 5:34 PM

#

Oooh

frank light Jan 17, 2025, 5:37 PM

#

fleet harbor Did some body horror for my first Kaiju Form > ||The first agony is in our bones...

Love Jennifer magnus so much

tall jolt Jan 17, 2025, 9:11 PM

#

restive ridge The Angelic Estate of "Stop Laughing"

You can't stop
It hurts
I can't breathe
Makes you happy until it doesn't

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

narrow tartan Jan 17, 2025, 10:57 PM

#

fleet harbor > ||At 144.1 seconds, we regain full consciousness and continue to scream, but m...

Gender

fleet harbor Jan 17, 2025, 10:57 PM

#

XD

narrow tartan Jan 18, 2025, 1:39 AM

#

Would spy family make for a good mimic game?

vivid wraith Jan 18, 2025, 1:58 AM

#

That would be so funny

#

like

#

"we all need to fake it simultaneously" is really funny

frank light Jan 18, 2025, 2:23 AM

#

youre right it is

#

:))

narrow tartan Jan 18, 2025, 2:47 AM

#

(Yor didn't put points into style)

#

(or ability)

magic mason Jan 18, 2025, 4:28 PM

#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1sTtVR4oqs
Actual Song I think

YouTube

TurbonicFlaws

𝚃𝚑𝚎𝚛𝚎 𝙸 𝚊𝚖. 𝚃𝚑𝚎𝚛𝚎 𝙸 𝚊𝚖 𝚊𝚐𝚊𝚒𝚗.

I wanted to make an extended version of the thirteen second clip just known as “There I am. There I am again.” This is simply a little project to try something new, so don’t expect it to be professional in any way. with that being said, I hope you all enjoy!

The creator of the lyrics supposedly doesn’t want to be associated with the clip anymo...

▶ Play video

restive ridge Jan 18, 2025, 10:21 PM

#

#

Chuubo

frank light Jan 18, 2025, 10:24 PM

#

Chuubo would never

#

He doesn’t study enough to get straight A’s

obsidian dagger Jan 18, 2025, 10:28 PM

#

This is like the exact diametric opposite of Chuubo.

#

Is it the Incomparable Leonardo de Montreal!? do you think?

vivid wraith Jan 18, 2025, 10:31 PM

#

It's leo but he forged the teacher's note

obsidian dagger Jan 18, 2025, 10:31 PM

#

...you know what, that tracks

frank light Jan 18, 2025, 10:47 PM

#

Yea no that’s fair

narrow tartan Jan 19, 2025, 12:18 AM

#

Y/N: Is this Nobilis?

patent tiger Jan 19, 2025, 12:18 AM

#

It's Glitch

narrow tartan Jan 19, 2025, 12:26 AM

#

nodnod makes sense

reef perch Jan 19, 2025, 1:02 AM

#

there's also an argument for far roofs

narrow tartan Jan 19, 2025, 3:39 AM

#

Estate of "angels"

#

Angels as they are viewed on earth?

vivid wraith Jan 19, 2025, 4:02 AM

#

I think there's a Strategist dying of those!
I could see it as an Estate too

vivid wraith Jan 19, 2025, 7:29 AM

#

hi here's my new Abhorrent Weapon OC who the froofs party are going to have to deal with now!!!!

Catastrophe, which is named Cormoran, was stolen from Heaven by Hell, then from Hell by the Not. A fell omen, the few times it has been encountered in Creation it has heralded ages of war and misery.

frank light Jan 19, 2025, 8:08 AM

#

I love them so much

narrow tartan Jan 19, 2025, 4:12 PM

#

Heh. Macavity

narrow tartan Jan 19, 2025, 5:06 PM

#

...if the nobilis are high schoolers excrucians are tumblr sexymans

restive ridge Jan 19, 2025, 5:11 PM

#

Basically yeah

gloomy oasis Jan 19, 2025, 6:06 PM

#

I feel like Nobilis is one of the few systems where you could have a character who's literally broken every human law.

candid compass Jan 19, 2025, 6:08 PM

#

Camorra moment

strange raptor Jan 19, 2025, 6:32 PM

#

I mean, if you're a noble with the right build, why stop there?

#

you could go as far as creating or destroying more human laws (perhaps to concentrate or dilute the percentage of things counted as crimes, or in some kind of grand scheme for some inscrutable purpose)

#

could be fun to picture all the small and hyperspecific, archaic municipal laws that exist for stuff like 'don't feed donkeys apples on the market square between the hours of 2 am and 8 am' (this isn't a real one; just ad-libbing) as resulting from an imperial miracle of the wildlord of crimes spreading the breadth of their estate

restive ridge Jan 19, 2025, 6:41 PM

#

vivid wraith Jan 19, 2025, 6:41 PM

#

yes
maximum crime moments

vivid wraith Jan 19, 2025, 6:41 PM

#

restive ridge

YEAAAAAH

acoustic dagger Jan 19, 2025, 7:26 PM

#

Tossing someone into the grinder here

#

Hehehe

#

Never mind (didn’t want to join)

fleet harbor Jan 19, 2025, 7:40 PM

#

gloomy oasis I feel like Nobilis is one of the few systems where you could have a character w...

You could put it on your character sheet

#

Affliction: I have broken every human law (1)

restive ridge Jan 19, 2025, 7:41 PM

#

Make it a bond

fleet harbor Jan 19, 2025, 7:42 PM

#

Bond: I will break that law (5)

#

Get bonuses whenever you're breaking any kind of law

narrow tartan Jan 20, 2025, 5:20 AM

#

Hmm. How much personality do you give to small numerous spirits?

vivid wraith Jan 20, 2025, 5:20 AM

#

Karen's been doing great with the fire spirits in Chuubo's

narrow tartan Jan 20, 2025, 5:21 AM

#

nod nod

vivid wraith Jan 20, 2025, 5:22 AM

#

i think it would mostly depend on how eager players are to speak with them
I'd try to start distinguishing them more from each other if players start paying consistent attention to them, separate from each other

#

which fits the animist model here i think

narrow tartan Jan 20, 2025, 5:22 AM

#

I was thinking about. Spirits of background characters? Or. Individual units in videogames

#

And. Yeah that makes the most sense

#

Hmm. I had the idea once. For. A spirit that is somehow all goombas everywhere.

vivid wraith Jan 20, 2025, 5:23 AM

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now that one's interesting

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To me that's a "big" spirit because it's representing an entire phenomenon, not just an instance of it

narrow tartan Jan 20, 2025, 5:25 AM

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True

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Hmm. Just thinking.

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Yeah. Goomba spirit would be big

vivid wraith Jan 20, 2025, 5:29 AM

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Trying to imagine the spirits of individual NPCs now

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you're like... an actor playing yourself

narrow tartan Jan 20, 2025, 5:30 AM

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Eh maybe.

vivid wraith Jan 20, 2025, 5:30 AM

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There's some distinction, you don't really die when Mario stomps on your head, but it mostly matches up

narrow tartan Jan 20, 2025, 5:31 AM

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Harmony. How Harmony views the world

vivid wraith Jan 20, 2025, 5:31 AM

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probably yeah!

magic mason Jan 20, 2025, 5:32 AM

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narrow tartan Hmm. I had the idea once. For. A spirit that is somehow all goombas everywhere.

I think the trick is

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there is a spirit of goombas

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and a spirit of every goomba

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and a spirit of each pixel that makes that goomba up

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and an estate of Basic Enemies

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Minions...
Serve great evils.
Transform into cute plushies.
Are actually pretty competent, but fall to true heroes.
Come in great number.
Are slain without pity.
@narrow tartan

Estate you inspired me to make

frank light Jan 20, 2025, 7:12 AM

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vivid wraith Karen's been doing great with the fire spirits in Chuubo's

D’awww thank you so much!

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The fire spirits have been a joy to play

restive ridge Jan 20, 2025, 3:58 PM

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Hmm

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Far Roofs feels like the Jennagame that benefits the most from reading other Jennagames

frank light Jan 20, 2025, 4:31 PM

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Possibly

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Though it’s also one that can standalone pretty well

vivid wraith Jan 20, 2025, 4:34 PM

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restive ridge Far Roofs feels like the Jennagame that benefits the most from reading other Jen...

Really? Chuubo's explains very very little about uh, anything, without Nobilis context

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Far Roofs has easter eggs but like, even with some Mysteries showing up in GMD I feel like it's better at explaining itself by itself

restive ridge Jan 20, 2025, 4:35 PM

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I'm talking on like a mechanical, whats the intended way to play level

vivid wraith Jan 20, 2025, 4:37 PM

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oh interesting

frank light Jan 20, 2025, 4:38 PM

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Oh

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Yea that’s fair

vivid wraith Jan 20, 2025, 4:38 PM

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i ended up using froofs to figure out chuubo's so i'm still not sure it was that way for me, but i can see that better

frank light Jan 20, 2025, 4:38 PM

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It benefits from some chuubos knowledge for sure

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Though it is helpful for playing chuubos

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The fade mechanics are different though

restive ridge Jan 20, 2025, 5:22 PM

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vivid wraith Jan 20, 2025, 5:23 PM

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that's true

restive ridge Jan 20, 2025, 5:25 PM

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(This dichotomy of Estate Properties is reversed in their Nobles- the Duke of Milk is a kind-hearted patron deity of travellers and orphan children but the Power over Water is a men-drowning selkie and notorious online discourse starter)

gloomy oasis Jan 20, 2025, 8:36 PM

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What makes drowning cruel? Surely these people just need more water. I'm giving it to them.

vivid wraith Jan 21, 2025, 12:06 AM

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https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/trying-to-make-glitch-nobilis-traits-for-the-24-chuubo-arcs-en-attendant-nobilis-4e.873599/post-25407926

RPGnet Forums

Trying to make Glitch/Nobilis Traits for the 24 Chuubo Arcs en atte...

This is my fan-Arc for the Chuubo's Attribute "Wounded Angel", which I've named "Coping".
It's about suffering from something, about carrying a burden but making the best of it.

Some fictional characters who can be interpreted as having levels in Coping:

Fallen Angels: Coping with That Which...

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Prophet and Ace for 4e

narrow tartan Jan 21, 2025, 12:14 AM

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I posted in that thread

vivid wraith Jan 21, 2025, 12:18 AM

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nice

magic mason Jan 21, 2025, 4:19 AM

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Serpents in 4e traditonally have Vastness, Sealed, Wanderer and Allegorical

While Chuubo's Child Of The Ash and Reality Syndrome are iconic, and his wanderer rather easy to imagine, do any of you have funny takes for what Chuubo's Allegory arc might look likee?

obsidian dagger Jan 21, 2025, 4:44 AM

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I think it involves him being or becoming King of Atlantis? I have no idea why I think that, though.

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Maybe it was just mentioned offhand as a thing orange arcs could do.

magic mason Jan 21, 2025, 4:47 AM

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holy shit

obsidian dagger Jan 21, 2025, 4:48 AM

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I know that's very silly, but Chuubo is honestly a fairly silly character. He would finagle himself into some kind of stupid portal fantasy royalty situation.

vivid wraith Jan 21, 2025, 4:50 AM

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I daydreamed my way to Atlantis??? Some problems can't be solved by a giant snake! (86 chapters on royalroad, 4 views)

obsidian dagger Jan 21, 2025, 4:51 AM

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I know Seizhi and Leonardo, but who are the other two?

vivid wraith Jan 21, 2025, 4:51 AM

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Miramie, Leonardo again

magic mason Jan 21, 2025, 4:52 AM

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Leonardo keeps reading it through
To find things to critique, of course

restive ridge Jan 21, 2025, 4:55 AM

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vivid wraith https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/trying-to-make-glitch-nobilis-traits-for...

Coping and Seething, the two new Arcs for Strategists in 4e

patent tiger Jan 21, 2025, 4:56 AM

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Those are already Strategist stats

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Wyrd is Seething, I think Flore would be Coping?

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That tracks, actually, Nobles would have Coping as a stat

vivid wraith Jan 21, 2025, 4:56 AM

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yeah

restive ridge Jan 21, 2025, 4:58 AM

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The Noble of Water Stains

narrow tartan Jan 21, 2025, 5:15 AM

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Looking at that aspect write up. I would probably switch 7 and 8. And add battle auras somehow.

tall jolt Jan 21, 2025, 9:41 AM

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restive ridge The Noble of Water Stains

leads to mold

obsidian dagger Jan 21, 2025, 9:54 AM

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I don’t know why the song Just Lean sounds like Allegory. Maybe because it’s about a wandering cowboy samurai and both of those things are very Allegorical?

frank light Jan 21, 2025, 1:59 PM

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patent tiger Wyrd is Seething, I think Flore would be Coping?

Tbh I think Wyrd includes coping actually with revenant rite

restive ridge Jan 21, 2025, 5:42 PM

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Wow

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Strategists packaging Coping and Seething in the same stat, impressive minituarization

narrow tartan Jan 21, 2025, 6:05 PM

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And to an extent with the masking rite? Or. Masking is sort of an extension of Revenant in a way. Both are about putting yourself back together

vivid wraith Jan 21, 2025, 6:06 PM

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masking rite

restive ridge Jan 21, 2025, 6:23 PM

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Omfgggggg

narrow tartan Jan 21, 2025, 6:46 PM

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Just Masking Rite is based on a Chuubo's quest miracle and I think it got kept for Wyrd and not Eide is because it sort of builds off of the rebuilding yourself theme

frank light Jan 21, 2025, 6:54 PM

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Chuubos quest miracles appear in Eide and Wyrd and flore and lord

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So I imagine if you modeled 4e stats, the quest miracle versions would get shared in an arcset

narrow tartan Jan 21, 2025, 6:55 PM

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nodnod but I think specifically Masking shows up in Wyrd because that connection.

frank light Jan 21, 2025, 6:55 PM

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Masking might be from one of the perks actually.

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I’d have to check

restive ridge Jan 21, 2025, 6:55 PM

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Wyrd Masking got explained to me as "Wyrd is about opposing Creation- and Masking is rejecting the identity Creation puts on you and making one yourself"

narrow tartan Jan 21, 2025, 6:56 PM

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Masking is the level 5 emptiness quest miracle

frank light Jan 21, 2025, 6:57 PM

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Ah nope you are correct

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Yeah

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That tracks

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And arc 4 is greater unfettering

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Neat

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Makes sense since base chuubos Wyrd also just didn’t have many miracles

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So I see why a bunch from just the general quest miracles got put in there. Plus they fit

magic mason Jan 21, 2025, 7:05 PM

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I theorize that monstrous 8 could also be masking

narrow tartan Jan 21, 2025, 7:10 PM

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I don't know. Just Monstrous seems really crowded

obsidian dagger Jan 21, 2025, 9:09 PM

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...okay, what is this? It seems like a heck of a vibe but I can't quite pin down which. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYWP8HtgeLQ

YouTube

ピノキオピー PINOCCHIOP OFFICIAL CHANNEL

ピノキオピー - 転生林檎 feat. 初音ミク / Reincarnation Apple

Download & Streaming: https://linkco.re/7M4NY4cv

ピノキオピー 6th Album『META』収録曲
https://pinocchiop.com/meta/

はじめましての人ははじめまして、ピノキオピーと申します。
生まれ変わってやり直せる転生林檎。

Music, Lyrics / ピノキオピー
Animation, Video Director / えいりな刃物 @eiri7hamono
Vocal / 初音ミク

Off vocal: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/srem5if956xe2e1/AAAE3nzB76DeJU5_jUOMte4Ua?dl=0

X (Twitter): https://...

▶ Play video

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Awakening? The Ace? Allegory? I just have no idea.

reef perch Jan 21, 2025, 9:14 PM

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seems like a role arc, but it's unclear insofar as the role repeatedly changes

vivid wraith Jan 21, 2025, 9:14 PM

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vaguely Awakening imo

reef perch Jan 21, 2025, 9:15 PM

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yeah there's some sense of awakening afoot

obsidian dagger Jan 21, 2025, 9:16 PM

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...Become Somebody seems well-suited to cycling roles. Like, you have your core truths, but then in each arc you're applying those to "trying out" a different task?

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Like, Seizhi's Become Somebody quests usually revolve around trying something, but it wouldn't be a wrong interpretation for Seizhi to finish a quest and then, with the same truths, take another Role arc for a totally different role than before. Build yourself as a composition of roles, rather than a single one.

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Become Somebody would actually interfere with that by making it so that you can't fully redefine yourself since you have your Truths... but that interference feels like a feature, not a bug.

fleet harbor Jan 21, 2025, 9:23 PM

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obsidian dagger Awakening? The Ace? Allegory? I just have no idea.

My hot take is Gatekeeper

obsidian dagger Jan 21, 2025, 9:23 PM

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Gatekeeper? ...hm. I can see it!

fleet harbor Jan 21, 2025, 9:25 PM

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Yeah, the lives/apples are the Others in this framing, but as is always the case, one's faith in them is ... unwise.

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Trust issue XD

obsidian dagger Jan 21, 2025, 9:26 PM

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It's an apple. Which may or may not be drugs, or a metaphor for drugs. That had me looking towards Green, but I'm not sure that fits perfectly either.

restive ridge Jan 22, 2025, 11:51 AM

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obsidian dagger Awakening? The Ace? Allegory? I just have no idea.

Called Away

obsidian dagger Jan 22, 2025, 9:18 PM

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fair. Apples are very Green ~~even when they're red~~.

narrow tartan Jan 22, 2025, 9:36 PM

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What character types would you most want to have a game about?

obsidian dagger Jan 22, 2025, 9:40 PM

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Actuals, but that's just my brainrot, and I'm not even sure how you'd do that.

vivid wraith Jan 22, 2025, 9:42 PM

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there's been a couple references to a True God game that might happen eventually

which wouldn't normally be my thing but the hints have been wild

fleet harbor Jan 22, 2025, 9:42 PM

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It’s gotta be either Warmains or Deceivers for me

vivid wraith Jan 22, 2025, 9:42 PM

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Warmain game would be amazing

narrow tartan Jan 22, 2025, 9:42 PM

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vivid wraith there's been a couple references to a True God game that might happen eventually...

Oh do tell

fleet harbor Jan 22, 2025, 9:42 PM

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I feel like the potential for Deceivers is stronger but Warmains are my preoccupation

vivid wraith Jan 22, 2025, 9:44 PM

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narrow tartan Oh do tell

"the True God game is likely to be litRPG/dungeoncore"

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and have little obvious connectino to the rest of the setting

obsidian dagger Jan 22, 2025, 9:45 PM

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...you know what, yeah. Numbers are the meat of games.

vivid wraith Jan 22, 2025, 9:45 PM

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so no idea what she's cooking but

narrow tartan Jan 22, 2025, 9:58 PM

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That makes a lot of sense actually. Less certain how Vastness and Deepness fit in

obsidian dagger Jan 22, 2025, 10:01 PM

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Vastness is tricky, but Deepness is the litRPG elements, where you're more than just the flesh; you're also the character.

narrow tartan Jan 22, 2025, 10:02 PM

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Huh

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Could you unpack that a little?

obsidian dagger Jan 22, 2025, 10:04 PM

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So, Deepness is Awakening. It's being more than just the you which exists in the flesh.

#

And Awakening in a litRPG would be awakening to the fact that you're a character being played by someone else in a game. Or, if that's too meta, at least awakening to the fact that you're a character.

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You're not just a person who exists in this world; you're also a character sheet being viewed in a higher world.

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It's realizing that you're not actually made out of muscles and blood and nerves and lymphatic vessels and such; those are actually just a representation of hit points and ability scores.

magic mason Jan 22, 2025, 10:07 PM

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narrow tartan That makes a lot of sense actually. Less certain how Vastness and Deepness fit i...

Honestly Vastness works pretty well if your on some power scaling nonsense

Besides aspect its one of the most physical power sets

narrow tartan Jan 22, 2025, 10:15 PM

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...i see. I think this means. That Rulers are in dating sims

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/light novels

frank light Jan 22, 2025, 10:16 PM

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Vastness is honestly a pretty simple powerset

obsidian dagger Jan 22, 2025, 10:31 PM

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Rulers are in specifically the kind of dating sim that skews more "raising sim", I think.

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Unless that's actually Angels.

fleet harbor Jan 22, 2025, 10:32 PM

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I am curious how Child of the Ash would be translated to Vastness

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Because it seems a little tonally different

narrow tartan Jan 22, 2025, 10:33 PM

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Ruler Lord Entropy is Now the objectively funniest version of lord entropy

frank light Jan 22, 2025, 10:41 PM

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Honestly the fact that the most exemplary ruleslord as a character we have is entropy the second really says a lot of interesting stuff about them

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That boy is…a magister of rules! For sure!

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That is indeed him

magic mason Jan 22, 2025, 10:42 PM

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Honestly I always read Rules Magisters as being sorta the iconic “Keeper Of Gardens Angst”

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Like their toxicity and inability to actually… understand or listen to you, but wanting to help people

frank light Jan 22, 2025, 10:43 PM

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Due to the double purple I do agree that their stories likely contain the most shepherd arc stuff

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If you tell a story about a ruleslord you’re going to run into the lesson that honest work actually does help a lot

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That’s not to say that ruleslords by default are like this
Just, if they’re a full character with a story going on, their stories might tend to have those themes

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I also really like the vague awareness of playing a role.

frank light Jan 22, 2025, 10:49 PM

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fleet harbor I am curious how Child of the Ash would be translated to Vastness

Way I see it, they probably have all their powers separated up like in far roofs, and then you get an escalating amount of useful powers the higher your vastness is

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But changing into a kaiju is like, level 0 as a miracle

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And then maybe at level 2 you have like, a way to do really easy ability actions with your kaiju form

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That’s my theory at least

fleet harbor Jan 22, 2025, 10:50 PM

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That would make sense

frank light Jan 22, 2025, 10:51 PM

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Maybe the greater version of your level 0 miracle is turning into a mortal
And then the level 4 miracle is shed scales

I’m thinking level 6 is natural weaponry and then the greater form of that is attention control

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Insert some shared miracles for spiritual arcs and some mood control and elemental bits and being noneuclidean

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Set the mood is probably also pretty low level

narrow tartan Jan 22, 2025, 11:24 PM

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Hmm.

narrow tartan Jan 23, 2025, 3:05 AM

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Looking at "Child of Ash as a Nobilis Trait" it is roughly

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0 Revelation (mode)
1 Imminence (set the mood)
2 Ascension (kaiju)
3 Fall (not kaiju)
4 Revelry (Shed Scale)
5 Evolution (feature)
6 Confusion
7, 8, 9 all kind of blur together a little but increasingly big stuff with form and origin

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Oh. I like the idea of Brightlord game because I think their ideology is relatively easy to play for unhinged comedy

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I think that Gardener tends to be associated with parties, festivals, galas, celebrations

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And Holy with meeting new people and somehow transforming them and how they see the world

magic mason Jan 23, 2025, 3:44 AM

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narrow tartan 0 Revelation (mode) 1 Imminence (set the mood) 2 Ascension (kaiju) 3 Fall (not k...

here is my hot take

flip Ascension and Revelation

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its way easier to become a kaiju than it is to... do something useful as a kaiju

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or to stop being a kaiju

obsidian dagger Jan 23, 2025, 3:47 AM

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In general, Child of the Ash is usually less about turning into a kaiju, and more about stopping turning into a non-kaiju.

narrow tartan Jan 23, 2025, 3:50 AM

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Specifically that was taken from a post by Jenna from... 2017.

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Sorry if that wasn't clear

vivid wraith Jan 23, 2025, 3:52 AM

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oh interesting

narrow tartan Jan 23, 2025, 3:52 AM

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She also did Creature of the Light at some point

narrow tartan Jan 23, 2025, 7:05 AM

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The layering of identity and mind in true god game is probably pretty interesting

restive ridge Jan 23, 2025, 7:17 AM

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Very true

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Probaly some messing with multiple character sheets Im thinking

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||Undertale style "do you know what EXP stands for?" if it actually ends up as litrpg ||

narrow tartan Jan 23, 2025, 7:35 AM

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What kind of story would all characters with deepness participate in?

vivid wraith Jan 23, 2025, 7:41 AM

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so if everyone has Deepness I'd really try to define what their Second Self is all together

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i think they'd end up working on the same "rules"

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but I can't guarantee that

restive ridge Jan 23, 2025, 7:42 AM

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I think Deepness is really suited to solo scenes or where other players get dragged into the current focus of the scenes Second Seld stuff

vivid wraith Jan 23, 2025, 7:43 AM

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oh yeah

restive ridge Jan 23, 2025, 7:45 AM

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However, this is a lie. You should have a scene that's just 75% everyone trying to figure out how their gnostic personal reality layers work together

obsidian dagger Jan 23, 2025, 8:31 AM

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I feel like that's more likely to come up in a Deceiver game than anything else.

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Deceivers don't all have the same True Thing, after all. (I was thinking about FFTA earlier, which naturally had me thinking about Deceivers.)

frank light Jan 23, 2025, 2:15 PM

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obsidian dagger In general, Child of the Ash is usually less about turning into a kaiju, and mor...

Or at least, being better about it

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Considering

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The entire ladder is about making you better at being a kaiju, more powerful, and being less dangerous

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You get more control over yourself and stuff

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Gk put it best that one time.
As an arc it’s like cosmic puberty

As a statline it is about how good you are at being a kaiju

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Oh

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Wait I misunderstood what you said lmao

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Yeah no you’ve nailed it

narrow tartan Jan 23, 2025, 3:44 PM

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There is a thing from the glitch book. Which i dont know where it happens and I have to go to work

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But it talks about the kinds of story arcs strategists get involved with. Not the quests. Or the arc colors

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And. I need to explain later

narrow tartan Jan 24, 2025, 1:30 AM

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uses search function on Glitch rulebook. Fails to find thing I am remembering

vivid wraith Jan 24, 2025, 1:34 AM

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what were you looking for?

narrow tartan Jan 24, 2025, 1:36 AM

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Its. I saw something about Strategist session plots being mysteries, slice of life, drama, and monster of the week. Tried searching for monster of and it didn's show up

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I also saw it in a tumblr post maybe? But Glitch is in some ways an unfortunate name for a game

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I mean. Unfortunately Jenna's work is a tad obscure so when I search Nobilis google asks if I am talking about the flower

vivid wraith Jan 24, 2025, 1:42 AM

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understandable

narrow tartan Jan 24, 2025, 1:42 AM

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nodnod

obsidian dagger Jan 24, 2025, 1:42 AM

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I was trying to find something that is I think connected but I found something absolutely incomprehensible and totally unrelated to nobilis instead.

vivid wraith Jan 24, 2025, 1:43 AM

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acidic gnomes

obsidian dagger Jan 24, 2025, 1:44 AM

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https://kaaramel.tumblr.com/post/618131202742861824/glitch-plot-hooks
https://kaaramel.tumblr.com/post/618284757638348800/glitch-plot-hooks-2

Tumblr

i love you. i'm glad i exist

Glitch Plot Hooks

offering up this collection of plot threads as inspiration for your Glitch games (several are probably suitable for Nobilis as well with minor tweaking), written with @windienine. hope someone has fun...

Tumblr

i love you. i'm glad i exist

Glitch Plot Hooks... 2!

i’m really glad people enjoyed the first set of these! @windienine and i still have writing juice in our brains, so i’m here to double down. these plot hooks are gifted for your use, wholesale or as...

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featuring categories for mystery, comedy, social drama, aaaaand monster of the week.

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Which comes from understanding "monster of the week" as the Blue category.

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is this what you were looking for?

narrow tartan Jan 24, 2025, 1:55 AM

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Yes! Thank you.

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I misremembered a little. The last paragraph on the second part after the plot hooks

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I remembered it as the categories of story being mentioned in the Glitch rulebook\

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And that has been influencing how I think about things

obsidian dagger Jan 24, 2025, 1:58 AM

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It's the Strategist colors, as mentioned in the second post.

narrow tartan Jan 24, 2025, 1:59 AM

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I know that

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But I thought the associations were explicitely derived from something jenna said and. While it is still a useful point of reference it means that figuring out what a Deepness flavored Black story is is less important

obsidian dagger Jan 24, 2025, 5:33 AM

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Random quote from a fanfic I'm reading, from an author who has probably never heard of Nobilis but nevertheless completely nailed Gatekeeper:

"The way he talks about ghosts, it’s like they’re… naughty. He has this trust in them that he doesn’t have with humans. With humans, he’s always worried about what they’ll do. All of his contingency plans are for if humans get too violent for him to handle.”

restive ridge Jan 24, 2025, 2:37 PM

#

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Impressario fucks damn

frank light Jan 24, 2025, 2:47 PM

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Yeah it does

restive ridge Jan 24, 2025, 3:45 PM

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Still kinda think there's a lot of stuff that I wouldnt be able to grok if I wasnt a Jenna Moran fan already but Im pron subestimating how much the average ttrpg player relies on ghost engines already

magic mason Jan 24, 2025, 5:08 PM

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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IF70XCjfkko

Deciever Pstates be like

YouTube

Bear Ghost - Topic

Big Town Banky Blaine's Rockabilly Bbq

Provided to YouTube by TuneCore

Big Town Banky Blaine's Rockabilly Bbq · Bear Ghost

Jiminy

℗ 2023 Bear Ghost LLC

Released on: 2023-09-22

Auto-generated by YouTube.

▶ Play video

restive ridge Jan 24, 2025, 5:14 PM

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So true

narrow tartan Jan 24, 2025, 10:27 PM

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Would Silver via Monstrous be revenge stories?

vivid wraith Jan 24, 2025, 10:28 PM

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hmmmmm

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not impossible

narrow tartan Jan 24, 2025, 10:32 PM

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Wait. What arc were cultivators associated with?

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The thing I was thinking of. I am on the right trail

frank light Jan 24, 2025, 10:36 PM

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narrow tartan Wait. What arc were cultivators associated with?

The Ace

narrow tartan Jan 24, 2025, 10:37 PM

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That. But also. Cultivators are also sometimes Indomitable.

obsidian dagger Jan 24, 2025, 10:37 PM

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Cultivators actually have a full set in the form of the Zu, on Chosen One/The Ace/Creature of the Light/Creature of Fable I think? Although that's probably only for orthodox cultivators.

narrow tartan Jan 24, 2025, 10:37 PM

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obsidian dagger Jan 24, 2025, 10:38 PM

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...very strange that the Zu don't have Indomitable, then.

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I guess because they don't usually spend time doing Silver stuff?

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Indomitable is also very fae-coded imo.

narrow tartan Jan 24, 2025, 10:38 PM

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Its the moral core of the protagonist cultivator and the face of the Young Master.

#

I have gained deeper understanding of Monstrous

vivid wraith Jan 24, 2025, 10:40 PM

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magical girls show up in at least three attributes too

#

just different takes on the subject

obsidian dagger Jan 24, 2025, 10:41 PM

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Yes but it's weird that the Zu are literally cultivators. They aren't a metaphor for cultivators, or something which is equivalent, or "oh, cultivators probably use the same stats"; they're literally just cultivators.

frank light Jan 24, 2025, 10:41 PM

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Tbf indomitables other name is “monstrous”
So i can see why they wouldn’t have it

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Meanwhile the Ace and yellow arcs in general have a strong association with training and self control

#

Even Natalia going as far as explicitly calling her MP qi

Unless I’m wrong about that in which case I’m being silly

#

But Qi is brought up a lot with her

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She is the titular The Ace

narrow tartan Jan 24, 2025, 10:43 PM

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Hmm. Holy ==> Monstrous might be a reasonable subtitution

frank light Jan 24, 2025, 10:44 PM

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Holy and monstrous do actually seem to have links/counterparts/are siblings

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I don’t agree with substituting it for the zu

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But it is something you could swap and keep a similar vibe while completely shifting the meaning

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Or I guess it’s the reverse

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Keeping the vibe while shifting the meaning

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They’re both pretty intense

narrow tartan Jan 24, 2025, 10:47 PM

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Huh

obsidian dagger Jan 24, 2025, 10:47 PM

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Creature of the Light is more facile than Indomitable in some ways, because Red is always about perception and senses.

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But they're both pretty intense.

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...it also... I know cultivators strive for immortality but it feels really weird for them to have too many Immortal arcs? Fundamentally they're struggling against reality. Cultivation is fighting the heavens.

frank light Jan 24, 2025, 10:47 PM

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Yeah, it’s very frantic

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The immortality of immortal arcs is more about being a divine law
Rather than claiming an immortality for yourself

obsidian dagger Jan 24, 2025, 10:48 PM

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...which is actually further evidence for a silver arc in there somewhere, too. Possibly representing tribulation lightning?

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I could see them having some immortal arcs once they entrench themselves specifically but they also need frantic.

frank light Jan 24, 2025, 10:48 PM

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Tbf that also is peak Aspect/The Ace

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Yeah

narrow tartan Jan 24, 2025, 10:49 PM

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I mean presumably there might be wannabe zu?

frank light Jan 24, 2025, 10:49 PM

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Mmmaybe?

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Though would you use zu stats for that

obsidian dagger Jan 24, 2025, 10:49 PM

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Natalia honestly seems like she likes Indomitable more than Chosen One, but she's not strictly speaking a cultivator, and most of what Chosen One grants in terms of basic powers is just The Cultivator Powerset™️.

frank light Jan 24, 2025, 10:49 PM

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Natalia is pretty The Ace tbh

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Chosen one isn’t as much cultivator?

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Chosen one is magical girl shit

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Granted I don’t get into cultivation stuff often but giant beams and energy shields were not the original staple of the genre I assumed

vivid wraith Jan 24, 2025, 10:50 PM

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the missing link (dragon ball)

obsidian dagger Jan 24, 2025, 10:50 PM

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...giant beams and energy shields come up reasonably often in cultivation stuff.

frank light Jan 24, 2025, 10:51 PM

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They do

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But my understanding is “body control, self control, pushing your limits” and stuff is more tied into it

obsidian dagger Jan 24, 2025, 10:51 PM

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Or sometimes they're more likely to be giant flying swords made out of energy than they are to be giant beams, but mechanically they're Blasts.

frank light Jan 24, 2025, 10:51 PM

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Though I guess that’s why zu has chosen one and ace

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True.
Though spirit swords is also part of ace

obsidian dagger Jan 24, 2025, 10:52 PM

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Yeah, I don't think cultivators always exclusively fall into Chosen One stuff, but it's definitely not unusual for their idiom either.

narrow tartan Jan 24, 2025, 10:53 PM

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Honestly I never got why they had holy

obsidian dagger Jan 24, 2025, 10:53 PM

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Enthrallment.

frank light Jan 24, 2025, 10:54 PM

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Holy is for the kind of cultivator that’s More of a mentor

obsidian dagger Jan 24, 2025, 10:54 PM

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Holy is a bad name for it.

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Creature of the Light is better, with "light" glossed as "spotlight".

frank light Jan 24, 2025, 10:54 PM

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Music of the spheres, obsession, transfix, all of that makes them an experience

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Someone that changes you

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Tbf holy is it’s name in glitch

vivid wraith Jan 24, 2025, 10:54 PM

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and froofs

frank light Jan 24, 2025, 10:54 PM

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So the name is…somewhat relevant to many of its instances

vivid wraith Jan 24, 2025, 10:54 PM

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it's not like, going away

frank light Jan 24, 2025, 10:54 PM

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It’s a pretty good name

obsidian dagger Jan 24, 2025, 10:54 PM

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It's also its name in Froofs. I stand by my statement that Creature of the Light is a better name.

frank light Jan 24, 2025, 10:55 PM

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Cool

obsidian dagger Jan 24, 2025, 10:55 PM

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Maybe this is because my homestuck brain has very particular understandings of the term "Light" which more intuitively connect it to the spotlight?

frank light Jan 24, 2025, 10:55 PM

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Regardless it means that the kind of cultivator that has invested in Holy is like, a sense I figure I imagine

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A lot of its powers are really good for it

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Including giving you a flashback

obsidian dagger Jan 24, 2025, 10:56 PM

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But... a lot of cultivator fiction has impossibly charismatic cultivators. Or, especially for women, cultivators so beautiful that if you see their face you'll spend the rest of your life pining after them.

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That's what Creature of the Light is for. The cultivator who is impossibly beautiful, who entrances and enthralls others.

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It's also screaming at the world so loudly that it has no choice but to give you a spotlight.

narrow tartan Jan 24, 2025, 10:59 PM

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I think Holy works well as a name.

obsidian dagger Jan 24, 2025, 11:00 PM

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Fair.

narrow tartan Jan 24, 2025, 11:00 PM

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But creature of the light also has a strong vibe

obsidian dagger Jan 24, 2025, 11:00 PM

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It also strengths the parallels with the other Red arcs.

#Jenna Moran Games (Nobilis, Chuubo's, Glitch, WTF)