Jenna Moran Games (Nobilis, Chuubo's, Glitch, WTF)

[narrow tartan]

Pretty much? It was for a Strategist I came up with for a friend when I was obsessing

I vaguely like the idea of humanity having scary potential from a miraculous point of view.

[restive ridge]

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Price

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Recommendations

1154

▶ Play video

Faf Roofs cinematic adaptation

[fleet harbor]

In this game, you play a Mystery

[restive ridge]

This will happen to Falin in 3 to 5 business days

[vivid wraith]

😭😭😭

[narrow tartan]

What are the gamplay incentives related to being on a sickly arc

[candid compass]

you can always gain Sickness as an Issue

[narrow tartan]

I know mechanically that is what it does, what I mean is what it incentivizes.

I should reread the rules instead of just asking questions

[candid compass]

well it incentivizes you being afflicted with some kind of sickness or curse, or otherwise not quite fitting in right

which is the main thematic of Sickly arcs

[narrow tartan]

Truman is a strategist. He does realize the world is false but only he is trapped in it

[obsidian dagger]

fair argument

[frank light]

The issue is a source of mp and resolving issues discounts miracles a lot.
So beyond the fun narrative stuff you earn good stuff for it

[winged smelt]

Is this Nobilis coded?

[candid compass]

Yeah

[winged smelt]

Power of Ideas

I need to run Nobilis at some point

[patent tiger]

That's a very strong one

Destruction of Ideas when the villain is about to unveil their grand plan

[candid compass]

Yeah lmao

Creation of Ideas to give people bad ideas

[fleet harbor]

Yeah, Ideas seems good for a Domain/Persona setup

creates a Power of Ideas with 3 Aspect and 5 Treasure

[patent tiger]

uwu

Quit loving the abhorrent nature of creation

[livid pulsar]

This is also very "A keeper of gardens"

[restive ridge]

This is how Imperators enNoble people

[frank light]

Been thinking about the differences between splats with the same gift

This is only showing up for strategists but amusingly, a noble with fire breathing can control their fire to do a bunch of things and destroy stuff

A strategist has to choose between either an easily controlled by phantasmagorical fire, or an actual destructive breath weapon. But the strategist in wailing can turn their fire breath upon abstract concepts like time or reality.

[candid compass]

there's a few interesting differences in how the "common" gifts work yeah

[magic mason]

my fav is immortal strateegists having a Weakness to their bane

[restive ridge]

Its fun seeing Jenna try and wrangle simple gifts into the incredibly bizzare JRPG final boss toolkit of strategists

[narrow tartan]

nods

[fleet harbor]

Hm. Persona 5 with a gift that grants an automatic lesser emulation of any estate is only 24 character points

Affliction: Yes

[patent tiger]

You get to just define rules about yourself and how you affect the world around you

It's the freeform roleplay build

[fleet harbor]

"Everything I do has an auctoritas 5"

[restive ridge]

Makes it so you cant afford the HRT beam gift, worthless

[patent tiger]

Wrong, Affliction 5 of "people around me have their gender changed"

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. Is every psuedo estate in the set of every estate?

[restive ridge]

What Estate are you even emulating with that

[patent tiger]

Yeah

[Every possible estate] covers any property you can think of

The World-Breaker's Hand can destroy anything, no matter what estates it does or does not fall under

So an Emulation of any Estate can emulate any property you can imagine

[candid compass]

hmm, not exactly

[patent tiger]

Meaning you can have any and every Affliction you want

(Only one at a time though)

[candid compass]

a Deceiver's pState does not work the same way a Creational Estate does

[patent tiger]

Plutonium

[candid compass]

like, mechanically they work the same

but metaphysically there is a difference

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. The question of. Should the same gift built by different methods work the same way is interesting

[restive ridge]

So true

[candid compass]

a Noble getting the infinite Emulation gift and a Deceiver getting the infinite Emulation gift would mechanically work the same way

but lore wise there would be a slight difference in how they are doing that exactly

[restive ridge]

(Also from browsing the Nobilis discord in the past, "Does a 3x cost Emulation Gift give you access to all Properties or only the ones you can gaslight your party into accepting as belonging to an Estate" is a long debated question)

[narrow tartan]

I was thinking more like. If you built WBH off of Domain or Adept would it still be phantasmagorical to Excrucians

[fleet harbor]

Genderbend Manga

[patent tiger]

Fascinating

Well, I'm right and everyone else is wrong

[magic mason]

*3 gifts let you do pseudo estates

so just make up a new pseudo estate

[candid compass]

oh I see
yeah if you built it with different "base stats" it would more likely have functional differences

[magic mason]

like even if its a hypothetical pseudo esstate

[candid compass]

the Adept "WBH" of Blast for everything could probably destroy Excrucians just fine

The Domain one would still be, because Domain also only affects Estates

[restive ridge]

Throwing a genderbent manga at my enemies like its a grenade and watching them TF in real life

[fleet harbor]

Wait no Gender-Affirming Care

Although that would only work voluntarily

[patent tiger]

This works yeah

[patent tiger]

So, I think the thing to understand is

It's not actually that Strategists use Glitch rules and Nobles use Nobilis rules

The World-Breaker's Hand is the same Hand for either of them

It's just, those games have different mechanical approximations

Nobles in Glitch with the Hand still have it work like how Destruction works in that game

Similarly for Strategists in Nobilis

The Gifts aren't actually derived from stats

That's just how they get mechanically approximated

[narrow tartan]

Its an interesting question

[winged smelt]

"...only the ones you can gaslight your party into accepting as belonging to an Estate" just sounds like Nobilis Estates in general tbh

"Yeah this probably falls under my Estate"

[patent tiger]

Nobilis is a game about using philosophyspeak to gaslight people into letting you have your way

It's an OSR but the topic of filibustering is the fundamental boundaries of love and hate

[fleet harbor]

It's an OSR but it's also a PBTA, somehow

[narrow tartan]

Missionaries fall under the Estate of News

[frank light]

Yeah same

[frank light]

Yeah that’s true.

I just enjoy the thought of “strategist who breathes fire has slightly different fire breath than a noble even if they’re the same type of dragon because of ninuan nonsense”

However presumably once 4e comes out it wouldn’t be mechanically invalid to take a gift using, say, domain. Or for a noble to take a gift using Lore.

Though I imagine those would be weird and require some gm approval it’s not like that doesn’t already apply to gifts already

[magic mason]

Nobilis type interaction

[restive ridge]

Real

[magic mason]

Hey we're just 17 statues in a dark blue suit but happy to let you know.

I geniunely adore that as a charecter design

like a bunch of writhing marble statues in a suit

[vivid wraith]

they can't writhe, they'll shatter

those poor statues

STATUTES not statues

the uscpsc's statement makes sense now

[magic mason]

I also misread that

[vivid wraith]

this is also extremely good though

i like your interpretation it brings me joy

[obsidian dagger]

I also also misread it...

[obsidian dagger]

very Bleak-adjacent thoughts from the web novel Ave Xia Rem Y, presented without context because the context would be huge spoilers:

After all, how can something be sweet when all is bitter? How can something be hopeful when all is bleak? The strong are eager to indulge in cruelty, and the weak have no choice but to bear it. Why shouldn’t he scorn such a world?

Also, for my arcs as songs project: is The Rifle's Spiral something>? The video seems like it should be something but I don't want that to throw me off.

[narrow tartan]

So. One of the Mysteries (Goblin?) places traps with Hunter by running around and doing it himself?

[magic mason]

The goblins Hunter and Monstrous abilities represent the goblin just doing that shit itself while you weren’t looking yeah

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. How is that distinct from what Hunter normally does?

[frank light]

Hunter has the ability to be more…miraculous about it

Plus goblin also uses tribulations for it

Which is normally a miraculous curse

[magic mason]

Yeah the weird bit is that he does that shit with monstrous

[frank light]

But canonically for goblin that’s just him doing it

It’s all him doing it

[magic mason]

His “curse” is just personally him pissing in your cereal

While you aren’t looking

[narrow tartan]

The jerk

[vivid wraith]

Far Roofs Jumpchain
https://i.4pcdn.org/tg/1726988256804676.pdf

[restive ridge]

NO WAY

[vivid wraith]

YEAH

[restive ridge]

They did it...

[tall jolt]

balls

[narrow tartan]

Ryuugi in addition to writing a half dozen chapters of Nobilis Taylor Hebert fanfic has posted a single chapter of Strategist Taylor Hebert and one chapter of Deceiver Taylor Hebert (she doesn't seem to be the main character. Noble Lisa/Tattletale might be)

[restive ridge]

Incredible choices here

https://youtube.com/shorts/DGUigp94Odw?si=mEgUSxs1lgH8SI6G

Thinking about how much an Automatic Incarnation gift costs now

[narrow tartan]

I just remembered my airplane deceiver idea

[candid compass]

@fleet harbor
just remembered a reaction I had after hearing what was going on in Mimic game
is Robin an Excruciaboo?

[fleet harbor]

Yes

100%

[patent tiger]

I hate that string of syllables

[fleet harbor]

Robin studied rider necromancy, which is inextricably linked with rider philosophy, before being ennobled

[candid compass]

in large part from being told Robin apparently already had a whole Excrucian sona figured out

[vivid wraith]

foundational excuciaboo text A Philosophy of Treason

[vivid wraith]

no way

[fleet harbor]

They had an outfit

Waiting

[candid compass]

before becoming a Mimic Power

[patent tiger]

Well, we all do, that's part of the pitch of the game

But yeah Robin had it before needing it

She just did that

[vivid wraith]

you can't be saying that creational baby

[fleet harbor]

On their first meeting with Eudonia they deduced she was a rider and said, "Cool!"

[magic mason]

does it count as first meeting?

[fleet harbor]

Okay on their like, eighth or ninth meeting

Robin repeatedly broke into Eudonia's room and then Eudonia erased their memory and then they did it again

[vivid wraith]

why did eudonia need to break into their room eight times

[candid compass]

other way around

[frank light]

Robin broke into eudonias room 8 times

[candid compass]

Robin was bothering Eudonia

[fleet harbor]

I'm just gonna put Robin's opening post here

Robin is sneaking.

Dear reader, you have to understand that Robin is very good at sneaking. I say this because Robin doesn’t look like they are very good at sneaking. The sneaking of which they partake looks like an actor in an Asylum Pictures film’s idea of sneaking. It’s the sort of sneaking that, if you saw it, would incline you to say, “they are going to get caught.”

If you saw it. But you wouldn’t.

The janitor certainly didn’t see it when Robin swiped her keys as part of a diving roll. She felt it, felt the little plick of the keys pulling free of the hook, but by the time she looked Robin was gone, having somersaulted behind a stack of folding chairs. The secretary … okay the secretary might have seen it, I’m not quite sure what her story is but she frowned her frown of amusement when Robin crawled past her desk. But neither of the security guards saw them when Robin used a noisemaker to draw their attention and slid past them through the oaken door and onto the stairs. And from there, to the top of the tower, Robin was home free.

As they climb they think about what brought them here. It begins yesterday after Professor Colker’s class, in the library: those endless stacks, among the books of necromancy and the stories of its masters. Greatest of all were the riders, they of blackened eyes and icy temperament, they who fought angels and laid them low, and Robin knew, knew that a book that old which accurately described both the thanatotic constant and its potential variations (which are always important in practice, dear reader) had to have something to it. Robin was certain, not long after, that there was something in the tower. The connection, I’m sure you will agree, is obvious.

So Robin climbs the spiral staircase, surprised at how well they can make the ascent, barely huffing or puffing, whipping the janitor’s keys in a circle around their index finger. They think of what they will find. A god? An angel? Professor Colker wearing a mask, dissecting an angel? That one makes Robin a little nervous. Harmony and their ever-rotating circle of populars in a knitting circle? That one too.

Or, Heaven forbid, a rider? That, at least, is too much to hope for, Robin is sure.

They round the last turn on the staircase, and come to another oaken door. The first key they try clicks in the lock (there are like thirty keys on the ring, but that one calls to them). The door swings open with the slightest push, and Robin steps inside to see …

What do they see?

This is like the eighth or ninth time this has happened

[vivid wraith]

amazing

[fleet harbor]

Robin has a Bond 5: "I always figure out the truth, no matter how little sense that makes!"

Which I use as an excuse for Robin to cut the gordian knot of reasoning

[restive ridge]

Excruchaser...

[narrow tartan]

I introduced the fact that the place has put on at least theatre production about Excrucians

This was in part to facilitate a joke was that Lupe's original plan for a disguise was to use an Iolithae Septimian costume that the theatre club had in storage

[restive ridge]

My god

Dear lord

[narrow tartan]

Early on Karen said that excrucians were vaguely known of as folkloric figures. So I decided that Chibi Excrucian was an in setting fable

[vivid wraith]

https://itch.io/jam/rooftop-library-jam

hehehehehhehe

[narrow tartan]

...Nobilis/Chuubos dating sim in which Coriander Hasp can be used to revive NPCs but in the process locking in bad endings for then

[vivid wraith]

This is still helpful because sometimes you need them to trigger events for other characters

[narrow tartan]

-sets scene and randomly adds set dressing npc
-Karen comes up with something
-decide to kidnap the random NPC to protect her
-get told she isn't in any danger and would be unhappy on earth
-suggest building her a hellarium
UwU

[vivid wraith]

amazing

[frank light]

I don't think Paradise is an actual angel. Sure she looks like one, claims to be one, and even hails from a heavenly mythology.

But...her claims can only be backed up by her. The angels I've met don't know her, what she says can't actually be traced to any single heavenly cosmology or mythos, and despite claiming the existence of other angels like her, none have ever...really appeared.

Its less like she's an angel, and more like...the idea of one. She's like the idea of an angel in your head, or some popular twist on the concept, like she's taken inspiration from Christianity or Judaism without actually originating in either.

I think she doesn't know what she is. I think, given her perspective, the only thing she could possibly call herself, the only name she could find identity in, was that of a heavenly angel in God's choir. I don't think she's lying when she says that.

It's the only thing that makes sense, to her.

im cooking mysteries for froofbrew

[narrow tartan]

...imperatir of angels as understood on earth

[vivid wraith]

i think Paradise is 60% more likely to say "be not afraid" than one of the Imperator Angels is

[obsidian dagger]

...is this what Become Somebody: "a heavenly angel in God's choic" looks like? Or the creature of fable thing where there's somethng that's clearly true but you just can't prove it to anyone else?

[frank light]

its impresario, awakening, allegory, and prophet

theres...something going on here

but its unclear/unreliable as to what is going on

though Become Somebody might be a good replacement for Allegory

[obsidian dagger]

Allegory? Iiiiiinteresting.

That generally implies that your narrative is tied to the world. My Actual-brained self just saw "character with a role that they hold to as true, even in the absence of a clear role in the world" and went "yeah that's Become Somebody".

[frank light]

lol

the narrative is tied to the world somewhat! in this case its slightly infectious but not cancerous

[obsidian dagger]

Allegory implies that people have heard of her because she's gone around Being An Angel.

[frank light]

yeah
or at least, gives her powers to do some specific things

she does not possess tangled history

but does possess the ability to bring things to life or imbue minions with elements

[obsidian dagger]

Frantic is "I exist independent of what the world has to say". If it's actively infesting reality, then it's Sickly.

[frank light]

yes well thats why she has awakening and impresario

4 powersets

dont worry i know my dichotomies and what these abilities do

[obsidian dagger]

...you are describing a character with Allegory who does not have many of the Allegory things, and exists in (what reads to me as) a Frantic Orange way, and I'm just wondering why they aren't Become Somebody. But I am terminally Actual-brained.

[frank light]

and reviewing become somebody....i unfortunately prefer what she uses Allegory for

so i shall keep Allegory

[frank light]

because i wanted to give her allegory abilities :3

who does some allegory things

the answer is "i liked the abilities allegory has and they seem interesting"

become somebody has some cool ones but i prefer allegory

[vivid wraith]

Far Roofs doesn't even use sickly/frantic/immortal

[frank light]

and it represents that while she is...somewhat infectious through impresario and awakening theres something very important here

yeah

[frank light]

there is something that is true or real here. its unclear what exactly it is, because not even Paradise is sure, but it is there

[obsidian dagger]

Fair! And Awakening alone doesn't do that.

[frank light]

yup

shes got a whole set of abilities

[obsidian dagger]

I'm very curious to see her.

[vivid wraith]

(does Glitch even)

[frank light]

it doesnt use the words for it, but it does have differences in vibes that i suspect will carry over?

Lore miracles are very much like, a divine right/law-esque power and wyrd is very sickly (as in you are sick and tormented but honestly that might just be a wyrd thing)

[obsidian dagger]

I would argue that, although they don't use the words for the Immortal/Frantic/Sickly trichotomy/spectrum, it's still there, just... secretly.

[frank light]

but also yeah the mechanical split of the dichotomy exists mainly in chuubos

Mystery - Sariel, who is named Paradise
Allegory, Impresario, Awakening, Prophet
Role - Messenger of God
Failing - Paradise

Demesne
Minions
C’mere
Away With You
Here’s Who You Are
Divine Guidance
Inspiration
Materialization of Possibility
Regretful Warning(x2)
Vestments
Awaken
Limitless
Imbue
Stolen Form
Second Self
Step Away
Deepen the Mystery
Exile
Skilled x3
Treasure
CV + 1

heres her current plans

ive got
work to do on her

[ruby ivy]

neurons activated

[vivid wraith]

yes
good

[ruby ivy]

thinking about a Neighborhood that's like the top of a castle
like a massive sprawling minecraft build

you can always hear the sound of labor from inside, as though it were a massive factory floor

some dwarf fortress vibes too

my other thought is a Mystery who is just simply a very large person
paul bunyan +++
he's theoretically friendly but is also Very Big so it's difficult for him to interact with you (or even walk around in your vicinity) without hurting you

[vivid wraith]

solid kaiju tbh

[ruby ivy]

also Wounded Angel, probably (he's holding back his strength at all times. if he flinches while near you he may accidentally do something he will greatly regret later)
maybe Worldwalker, I feel like I could do some interesting things by giving them a much smaller foil

[vivid wraith]

You're cooking here

[obsidian dagger]

I am also cooking. And deciding if I want to give Minotaur the ability to accumulate a train of different shadows based on different people's conceptions of crushing mundanity.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OQM9BsS7hyoPUXxNjaQHjaVhozN1yXONWysF-UumlN0/edit?usp=sharing behold

[vivid wraith]

yes
YES

[obsidian dagger]

I still need to copy over the actual abilities, but Minotaur definitely has Worldwalker to make locations more mazelike and/or make people lost. I'm also considering Primordial and, oddly, Wounded Angel.

[restive ridge]

Hmmmm

More Quests would be nice imo

(Thinking about what to submit)

[obsidian dagger]

I'm also remembering my ideas for neighborhoods. One of them is just made of greenhouses, but the other... the other is the Radio Garden.

You might not recognize when you enter it; it sounds like someone left a radio on, in one of the houses below, and its audio is audible above. But as you wander, before long, you hear a second, playing something different. Then a third, then a fourth, then more and more and more, all playing atop each other, music and conversation all melding together, until you can hear nothing else.

You'd think it'd be cacophonic — and, well, it is, especially if you try to listen to any single song. But if you just let the noise wash over you, eventually, a strange, indescribable sort of music will reveal itself, composed of all the sound in harmony, and it is beautiful, at least until you accidentally try to pick it apart.

The Radio Garden is part of the Far Roofs, but I've heard that it's reliably reachable from the Near Roofs. I've also heard that, although you only enter it gradually, you leave it all at once — you're walking along, overwhelmed with sound, and then suddenly you just aren't, and the silence is deafening.

I've also heard that it's a fine place for divination, going there and picking out what few individual words reveal themselves, sifting the auditory dross of the universe for revelation.

[vivid wraith]

niiiiiice

[obsidian dagger]

It would be fun to connect these, but I don't think Minotaur is especially likely to haunt the Radio Garden. (It's also not particularly unlikely; sound can form into featureless grey walls as easily as anything else... but there isn't a direct connection there.)

[vivid wraith]

quests would be great

Even if they don't form into a quest set, a bunch of loose quests for sidequests could be really cool

[candid compass]

I did recently stat up some Mysteries loosely, maybe I'll write up a bit more about each
after I mentioned wanting to make some new artifacts in my Glitch game, and being asked what they would be like as Mysteries
the rough outline I ended up with for the two

Tindalos, which is named Spite (Monstrous, Wyrd, Hunter, Wounded)
Caladrius, which is named Compassion (Gardener, Flore, Prophet, Wanderer)

though funnily neither of these statlines quite work in Froofs currently haha

since Wyrd and Flore aren't in yet

[vivid wraith]

yooooooo

might be able to use Fluffy's versions

[candid compass]

in terms of thematics:

• Tindalos is a stalking predator, slasher villain-esque but in a more direct and brutal way, it hunts you down slowly and persistently
• Caladrius is a very benevolent Mystery, it just uses its influence to create small pockets of the Roofs that are just pleasant and relaxing to be in, a little oasis to rest and recover in

[obsidian dagger]

How easy is it to leave one of Caladrius's pockets?

...also is Phoenix a mystery already?

Because Phenex (aka Pheonix) is one of the demons of the Ars Goetia, alongside Amy/Avnac, Marchosias, and Focalor, who is described as wanting to return to heaven, but that this isn't plausible or credible, and syncretism is fun. And I have some vague idea of a Mystery who's dangerous primarily if you get in the way of its quest for something, and it would be friendly or even heroic, but it's bound to spend eternity questing for something it can never have and which may or may not even exist.

You could also mix in some eastern european firebird mythology with Pheonix, but, unfortunately, I think the firebird is already a mystery, named Inexplicable.

Like... the firebird is a majestic bird with feathers that glow like flames, and people try to find it because those feathers are incredibly valuable and might be able to grant wishes, and... I think that's Hoop Snake.

[candid compass]

you can leave if you want
this isn't like some lotus eater twist or anything, it's just a pleasant place to be

[obsidian dagger]

alright, good, just checking.

[narrow tartan]

I wonder. Could Froofs become obscure rather than niche?

[vivid wraith]

Uhhhh how so

[still blaze]

The tone of the Chuubo's rulebook is quite conversational

[vivid wraith]

Like, people think it's too goofy, or..?

[frank light]

its fairly conversational yeah

i do find it to be a useful way to explain the rules but thats just me

[vivid wraith]

OH

Conversational

not controversial

[still blaze]

lol

[vivid wraith]

Different words i understand now

[still blaze]

I was trying to figure out what you were saying

[vivid wraith]

But yeah absolutely

[frank light]

like for emoting where "if you emote but arent telling the truth then i dont know what youre doing but its not emoting!" does help me understand 'ah yes, emoting always has to be telling the truth, and that you can do something else but that fundamentally isn't emoting'

[still blaze]

I like it actually, especially after I cleared up some confusion in here

I might be back with more questions later

[frank light]

nodnod

enjoy the book!

[fleet harbor]

Personally I like Jenna's very "hello it is me Jenna Moran I am talking to you" style of game writing

But I can see how some folks might not

[frank light]

while i dont enjoy "the game is canon to the universe of the game" i do enjoy the conversational tone with rules
at least for a narrative focused game like nobilis where the rules kinda rely on the ephemeral ghosts as machinery

[vivid wraith]

"Bring them back to me," Vilensky begged, his voice hoarse from crying.

"This thing I can do," Heart-Eater answered, "but not without price."

Vilensky agreed, for no cost could be too great, and Heart-Eater drank—

A rat returned from the dead that day, but love died in their place.```

[restive ridge]

Ooooh

[obsidian dagger]

I need help figuring out what Minotaur can do. I know for a fact Minotaur can make you get lost (even in a familiar place), or make a place into a labyrinth. I heavily suspect that Minotaur is looking for something, intently, only, nobody has any idea what. I'm not sure of that, though; it's possible what Minotaur hungers for is actually the sight of the horizon (which can never be seen, since Minotaur is always within a labyrinth). Otherwise... Minotaur is aware of when you try to damage or "deface" the labyrinth (not that it'll probably work out that well for you), I think. And maybe, Minotaur has a sort of "train" of trailing shadows, each different, each dangerous, which change depending on your understanding of "crushing mundanity"... but I'm not confident about that one. Other than that, I have no clue.

Do I give Minotaur A Keeper of Gardens to allow for more direct manipulation of the maze? I'm not sure, especially since it might be a prison of sorts for Minotaur. (Then again, it might not be.)

[vivid wraith]

Gardener who's a prisoner of their garden goes hard tbh

[obsidian dagger]

Yes, but... if what they hunger for most is to see the horizon, and they can lower the walls, or build a tower to stand atop... why haven't they done that? (Presumably they either don't realize they can, in a profoundly tragic way, or the walls will rise as they do... but it's still a question that's begging for an answer, you know?)

Also, the labyrinth rejects decoration. The walls are featureless and grey, and even if you try to mark them up... well, first, that'll draw Minotaur's ire, but second, the markings won't stick around. It's not clear that anyone gets rid of them, or they slip away, or something; just, you leave markings somewhere, and then they aren't there later.

[vivid wraith]

There is precedent for "This region has a Geas on it," I guess
You could include that as an addendum

[obsidian dagger]

I'm not sure if it's a Geas, or just a region property. I'm also not sure... can A Keeper of Gardens be Called Away to their Garden?

[vivid wraith]

Sure!

[vivid wraith]

i think it might be a geas in froofs because other region properties aren't mechanized

[obsidian dagger]

Wait, no, that's probably not necessary; Worldwaker at minimum can Shape the Realm.

Gardener and Worldwaker can both do a lot of the right things Minotaur needs to do, in different ways, so it's really a question of which is more appropriate... and I think the answer is Worldwalker. Probably with Primordial, and maybe some Kaiju stuff?

Set the Mood allows Minotaur to project an aura of "being lost", in addition to being able to infect people with seeds of it, or even to pull off a [Mood]-Splosion if need be.

I'm also pondering some kaiju stuff but I don't think Minotaur is a notable shapeshifter? Even if Minotaur is, variably, somewhere between a large, unusually muscular bull, and a human with a helmet reminiscent of a bull's head... that'd be neat but also probably not necessary.

Minotaur wouldn't mind Blend In either, if we really need "the Minotaur is skilled at navigating labyrinths" to have mechanical teeth... but I doubt that's necessary.

[ruby ivy]

Consider- the Minotaur wants to leave, but that experience is so frightful they are afraid to touch it.
'One day,' they say. 'I'll go outside tomorrow.'

If you want them to search for something, why not search for courage?

yes this is Bocchi The Mystery

[vivid wraith]

hehe

[restive ridge]

Failgirl in-universe Jenna continues

[obsidian dagger]

...has anyone here read Neverwhere ever? By Neil Gaiman? There's some stuff there that makes me think it could almost be a Minotaur story in some ways. "Mind the gap" in particular.

[narrow tartan]

nods yeah

Or. Or. I watched the film? Cant remember

[magic mason]

Found this in the 40k thread but feels relevant https://x.com/WolfdawgArt/status/1868103556211101913

WOLFDAWG ART (@WolfdawgArt) on X

Mouse Guard

#WarhammerCommunity #warhammer40k #mouseguard

Twitter · Dec 15, 2024, 1:19 AM

[vivid wraith]

YES

[restive ridge]

Real

[vivid wraith]

Magical realism style

(not to be confused with magical realism gatecrasher)

[restive ridge]

Magical Realism Adept Enemy

[still blaze]

Could also be a comedic Korean pop-song. Magical realism-style. Not very catchy though

The name, I mean

[obsidian dagger]

How do you think sign language works in Town/for rats? My guess is:

• Everyone can understand it
• There aren't articulatable differences between various sign languages
• There's an obstacle 0 to determining if someone is speaking aloud or signing; it's not any sort of supernatural obstacle, but if you aren't intentionally paying attention and there isn't some contextual cue (like "oh, I couldn't hear them over the background noise, they must have been speaking out loud"), it's not the sort of thing you'd be likely to notice.

[frank light]

i imagine its kinda like Strategist sign language

where its a...you can just sorta understand it. It skips past the step of being any particular form of sign language

[obsidian dagger]

I didn't know Strategists had their own sign language. But... yeah, probably.

[frank light]

well less they have their own but
excrucians have ambiguity

[obsidian dagger]

Fair. That's how all language works in Town, I think.

[frank light]

their language, speech, stuff like that
tends to skip past the step of being something specific

yeah probably

[obsidian dagger]

(I ask in part because I once had an idea for a Chuubo's character based on the original myth of the Golem, and, like the Golem, she cannot speak. But that isn't anywhere near as much of a downside as it might sound when literally everyone knows sign language, and making it a Bond means that it's ambiguous if she can ie. scream nonverbally. But you'd get a kickback if you ever get inconvenienced by needing to talk to someone while you're tied up, or needing to communicate with someone who's looking away from you and you can't easily get their attention, or something.)

[frank light]

yeah!

and you might still have disadvantages in that, people need to be close by and in line of sight for you to talk with them

[obsidian dagger]

Also, she'd have Indomitable for Matchless Endurance; she's not supernaturally fast or strong, but if there's ever a question of who runs out of energy first, it's not her.

[frank light]

they cant just be in another room
calling for help is hard

[obsidian dagger]

Yeah! But she can still communicate, which is important in a game which is in large part about communication.

[frank light]

true

[frank light]

jesus christ

[obsidian dagger]

something about the idea of being fake and extinct seemed relevant to here

[vivid wraith]

hahahah

this bit from their comic is also appropriate I think

[obsidian dagger]

yeah that does.

[narrow tartan]

Oh. One thing i like as a type of lost estate is culture stuff that we know about but is seen as weird of outdated from a modern perspective. Or. To put it another way. Stuff that used to make sense but doesn't anymore because missing estates? Like. If trial by combat used to be reliable

But the Estate that kade that actually work is gone

[candid compass]

there's some stuff like this mentioned in Glitch
apparently Ad Hominem used to be logically sound reasoning

[magic mason]

Gandel’s Law

• Asserts that it is impossible to prove if something is real or a construct of the human mind without divine intervention.
• foils divine intervention.
• causes deep, existential despair.
• Is beloved by people in power, for some fucking reason.
• Was the product of a complex social experiment.
• Is impossible to properly debate.

Deciever pstate idea

[candid compass]

Blasting someone with the social experiment beam

[restive ridge]

Holy shut

Hitting people with the 1st property to ensure they never get invited at a party ever again

[narrow tartan]

Ooh that is pretty good. I had a similar idea once which was more meant to be a math joke? Like. "Deceivername's paradox"

I only figured out one property, "...cannot be disproven within the confines of reality."

But. Gandel's law is really good

[narrow tartan]

Churches used to house sacred bats which got excruciated

[obsidian dagger]

I mean. There's a nonzero chance in my current froofs campaign that humans used to be able to shapeshift, to shed their skin and walk as an animal temporarily, but then that became Gorgon. I'm not sure if that actually quite works but I'm enamored with the idea of it.

[narrow tartan]

Carapace Cross

[obsidian dagger]

I'm not going to lie: that was a little bit of an inspiration.

...I have a little snippet of something involving cicadas which I am saving until it becomes relevant for the campaign but I can PM it to you if you want, for praise and/or criticism.

[narrow tartan]

carapace cross

[obsidian dagger]

yes.

[still blaze]

Anyone tried running Chuubo's solo?

The system seems inappropriate for it, but perhaps someone has tried it...

[narrow tartan]

but also. The specific line of thought was. Triglyphs and skeoumorphs.

[narrow tartan]

So. Triglyphs are a decorative element that were on greek temples that I have seen on modern churches.

[vivid wraith]

Lemme grab

https://geostatonary.itch.io/the-pool-of-stars

[narrow tartan]

I have retroactively changed the description of my characters excrucian disguise.

"Valenvulth shivers at the cold, feeling it through her armored jacket. Tall leather boots, long black skirt, black shirt, off black vest and a big jacket made of kevlar plates... God she hoped she didn't look like a dork."

Now she doesn't look like a dork

Kind of imagining something like artillery witch from trench crusadw

[still blaze]

Ohoho! I'll have a look! Thank you

[vivid wraith]

nice nice

[frank light]

oh???

[vivid wraith]

oh yeah it's a solo gluubo's toolkit

[frank light]

huh

[vivid wraith]

well

actually maybe not

but GMless at least

[restive ridge]

LMAO

Listen The Fable of Gyges and the Fanged Bus goes hard

[vivid wraith]

"why's Rinley the bus driver"

[obsidian dagger]

No, the bus driver would be Entropy II. I'm pretty sure "actually, that random background character was me the whole time!" is a valid use of Appear, too.

[vivid wraith]

oh that's actually perfect

[obsidian dagger]

I'm not even sure if School has a schoolbus, or, if so, who would drive it... but Entropy II totally could.

Actually. I'm now thinking that if the teachers are all evil, the schoolbus probably would be too, which in turn suggests an evil twist on either the Magic School Bus or the catbus from Spirited Away... which, in turn, has me thinking about Sphinx.

Who isn't even at School! She's in Soma Village! But "Sphinx as ersatz Ms. Frizzle and/or ersatz catbus" just seems too amusing to not share.

[vivid wraith]

that's why she didn't get a story in froofs
too busy driving the bus

[obsidian dagger]

Apparently!

Speaking of which, isn't there a bus to the Bleak Academy? Who drives that bus?

[vivid wraith]

gyges apparently

[obsidian dagger]

Apparently!

what's the original version of that tweet?

[obsidian dagger]

Not what I guessed, but makes sense.

Ok: what arc gets to change the genre of the background music? Not just playing a theme song; lots of people get theme songs.

[magic mason]

That feels like very classic Star Quality

[obsidian dagger]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbAIS_7FPPA

[magic mason]

Child Of The Ash maybe, as like a way to show the Mood getting imposed

[obsidian dagger]

Like, it should be noted that various people remark on this character's tendency of rapping at random times and point out how weird it all is.

I could see Star Quality for "literally barges into someone and changes the music with their own personal theme" though. I assumed Red but Orange also works.

[vivid wraith]

background music is a great Mood yeah

renaming Moodsplosion to BIg Mood

[candid compass]

did love this guy in Oddtaxi
he's just such a character

[obsidian dagger]

Oddtaxi is perhaps the most amusing representation of ||Star Quality|| that I've seen, because it's quite a large twist that the character in question ||perceives the world highly idiosyncratically, which brings various advantages||.

[magic mason]

I was thinking in terms of powers that let them do that.

I don’t think accursed has this ability in Chuubo’s, but the glitch equivalent to accursed Wyrd had an ability called Shattering where when they take meaningful amounts of damage from an attack they can break apart and release a uncontrollable natural disaster, and I feel like that being triggered would probably shift the soundtrack the instant it happens

Same for your Blasphemy being released on Wounded Angel

[candid compass]

comparing Wyrd and Accursed is pretty funny
because Accursed has mostly just WBH and their Bane and sanctuary

[obsidian dagger]

Probably. Lots of things can change the song outright, most of them Sickly. But only some could change the genre of the song, but not just in an outright replacement.

[magic mason]

Yeah

The reason Star quality came to mind honestly was the use of the word genre

Since Star quality is sometimes phrased as having a “personal genre”

[obsidian dagger]

Fair! That's what Orange is sort of about; it's more meaningful than the facile noises of Red.

[frank light]

Plus star quality has the ability to introduce the aesthetic of their genre

Like child of the ash it has abilities to introduce the aesthetic/mood of it without intrusively twisting up the world

At least in the lower end

[obsidian dagger]

Yeah, though it's Sickly, so it's always going to be at least a little intrusive..

[frank light]

Yeah but if the ability says “No permanent effects” it’s no permanent effects

I’m going off specific abilities in an arc set rather than like, color and type

[vivid wraith]

"acidicGnome" is a valid chumhandle

[obsidian dagger]

This is true, and I'm curious why you posted it here.

Is there a reference to acidic gnomes in Froofs that I'm forgetting or something?

[candid compass]

It's an example Jenna used in a blog post for Domain IIRC

[vivid wraith]

it was in 2e

In each Power's soul, a shard of their Imperator couches like an acidic gnome

[vivid wraith]

the blog posts include this statement

[obsidian dagger]

Ah. I see.

More or less weird than my mostly-forgotten theory which states in part that the Chuubo's PCs are pearls secreted by the universe to contain the influence of the players?

...more weird.

[vivid wraith]

amazing

protesting to the rats that they should let me bring a baby to meet Hoop Snake

[obsidian dagger]

that would be a terrible idea. ...although it makes me think of a baby who received a riddle from Sphinx or something, and just has that sitting on them their entire life.

Or, alternatively, if a newborn (or other generally young child) would be pure enough to survive Unicorn. That... would be a backstory. Maybe needlessly tragic, though. ...maybe Wounded Angel, depending on how vividly they can remember and/or describe Unicorn's appearance.

I don't know why I'm imagining this, but for some reason I'm envisioning their eyes either lacking irises (just having pupils), or with pale and washed-out irises. They were scorched blank by Unicorn's beauty.

[ruby ivy]

meeting hoop snake as a baby would fuck someone up good I suspect
good pc backstory tbh

[obsidian dagger]

Meeting any mystery as a baby would fuck someone up. Hoop Snake would just do it in the silliest way.

[ruby ivy]

True!

[vivid wraith]

Typhon would make a great evil fairy left uninvited to a christening

[obsidian dagger]

...are Fortitude rats born blind? For some reason I have some recollection of that.

[ruby ivy]

im imagining a baby who got snaked would be like
perpetually wandering off and getting where they shouldn't be
picking up things they really shouldn't
"Take that out of your mouth right now!"

trying to find something they no longer remember precisely

[obsidian dagger]

I have also realized something important: the character I'm envisioning? Whose first sight was of Unicorn's transcendent beauty, and now nothing else can ever truly compare? They wouldn't want Wounded Angel. They'd want Accursed.

[vivid wraith]

real rats don't open their eyes or ears for a couple weeks, wouldn't be surprised if the same applies to Fortitude rats

[obsidian dagger]

They have seen the most sublime beauty, and now they are forever dying of it; they saw how something can become nothing, and now they can unmake whatever they please, but must always be careful not to linger overlong on those distorted memories or else they would fade away themself.

Is the sanctum to which they must retreat a holy place, of beautiful gardens and pure flowing water, for they were scorched by holiness and now are too holy for the rest of the world to hold them? Or a place of darkness and gray walls, where the beautiful light inside them finds no purchase?

[vivid wraith]

nice nice

[obsidian dagger]

...I already feel bad for this character. They can never appreciate a beautiful sunset or a masterful painting, because compared to Unicorn's full majesty it is dull and drab. They will always know, will always remember, that perfect, unattainable sight, and every other joy will pale in comparison to that single moment. And, yet, if they think on that too deeply, let it settle into their mind (made impure, now, by living in a world where ugly things exist), they will fade.

...on a more positive note, I suddenly remembered an idea I came up with for a character to be Called Away to, complete with realm and element and even some idea of what happens when you invert the mood.

The location is... I don't want to call it the Womb of the Earth, but it makes more sense to call it that than anything else. It's a place underground, with enclosing tunnels (the element is the primordial soil), and you'd think it'd be claustrophobia-inducing, but it isn't. If the tunnels were one millimeter tighter you might feel claustrophobic, but there's just enough space for you, so they're cozy instead.

The mood is... it's security. It's safety. It's being hidden under a blanket, and being absolutely unshakably certain that the fabric forms an impenetrable fortress. It's sitting inside, hearing the storm pouding against the window, and drinking cocoa knowing that you're safe and warm. It's being enclosed and welcomed, knowing that, no matter what wickedness is out there, it cannot reach you here: for this is a sanctuary.

Of course, its inversion lays you bare before the gaze of the sky. There is nowhere to hide, nothing to shelter behind, no place to escape to. It leaves you open and exposed.

[vivid wraith]

oooooh
good choice

[obsidian dagger]

...just suddenly realized that if there was actually a character associated with that place, they could very feasibly use it just to create little safe cozy holes to sleep in (once you get over the fact you're sleeping on soil, it's a nice place to sleep). Along with the weirdness of somehow digging a hole to sleep in even in substances where it doesn't make sense to dig a hole and have there be dirt there, because Called Away gets to just do that.

...I want to make a joke here about aardvark energy but am not awake enough to figure out how to make it funny.

it would be aardvark energy if those holes just... stuck around, and were reused later, I guess.

[candid compass]

Alas, the world is Wrong

That's what being a Strategist is like
Things can be nice, beautiful, enjoyable
But never as much as they should be

[obsidian dagger]

Yup! It's a weird Deceiver-esque kind of Strategist.

And, you know, normally seeing something beautiful but impossible would be a Deceiver thing, and it would be the True Thing... but not if it's killing you.

[candid compass]

Sometimes something beautiful can make you see the Wrongness of the rest of the world

There's a neat sidebar in Glitch about a man in Hell
When suddenly a fresh breeze comes in, giving him relief and driving away the devils torturing him

And in that moment, he Glitches
Because this is Hell, there's not supposed to be any relief

[obsidian dagger]

...I'm not sure if this character would literally be a Strategist but they'd definitely want Strategist arcs.

[vivid wraith]

real

[narrow tartan]

I once briefly understood acidic gnomes. Perhaps if I could have held onto that understanding I would have achieved enlightenment

Have the limited edition print one been sent yet?

Looking it up. Hopefully soon

[vivid wraith]

Not that i've seen

[candid compass]

Strategist Flore

[restive ridge]

So trueeee

[fleet harbor]

Systematically dismembering a lesser magister of hell, AMA

[candid compass]

Bad times for Hell Magisters in Mimic game from what I hear

[candid compass]

Does Robin plan on killing that Imperator?
And if yes, how does she reconcile destroying those estates

[fleet harbor]

Plan? 🤔

(Also they/she, for reference)

[candid compass]

Ah, more of an impulsive maiming I see

[fleet harbor]

Well no Robin does plan to kill her

"Must I want something? Are you so callow that you can't even imagine someone who seeks no advantage but the pleasure of your death?" Robin sneers (sneering! since when does Robin get to do sneering? this is great!). "I want your head on a spike."

[candid compass]

Damn, Robin really is enjoying being an Excrucian a lot

[fleet harbor]

There's no zealot like a convert

Tbf this is by all accounts a pretty weak magister, Robin came here in search of an easy victory to better arm their undead army

Ultimately they're gunning for Mammon, Angel of Greed

[candid compass]

Good luck with that

[fleet harbor]

XD

[candid compass]

What's Lupe up to while you and Harmony are busy committing Ymeraecide?

[fleet harbor]

Harmony also turned the magister's Power into a Deceiver >_> (not on purpose, but)

(I'm just saying big wins for the Not)

[candid compass]

Ah I thought they died

Due to no longer having an estate and all

[fleet harbor]

They did but, possibly related to Harmony trying to preserve them paradoxically, they returned as a deceiver

[narrow tartan]

Lupe hasnt really done much. 😔
Started a scene but it sort of stalled out. Might be joining Robin at the end of their current fight? Not certain.

Some bits of the scene worked okay but nothing to write home about.

[restive ridge]

Oh wow, girlie is popping off

[narrow tartan]

Flore are like pokemon from the anime
Arcana are like pokemon from the games

[fleet harbor]

snrrrk

[restive ridge]

[fleet harbor]

https://imgur.com/aFwawhe

Strategists

[candid compass]

yeah this is very Glitch

[restive ridge]

Peak Glitch

[magic mason]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJOsLdBqbPA
this song has a lot of strong vibes

Wounded Angel energy kinda

Like not fallen or mimics

But like, Chuubo’s or Far Roofs character that just has that for their own reasons

[fleet harbor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLrnkK2YEcE Is this anything I feel like this is something

[narrow tartan]

Frodo as a Strategist

[narrow tartan]

The λblond blinked at me giving me her best, 'just asking question eyes'. "Oh, you know Hemito, roleplaying games are a group activity, and anyway, you needed to take some time off," Aliss said.

"The world is wrong."```

[obsidian dagger]

Just reminded myself of this image I have saved (I need to read this again sometime) and... what kind of energy is this?

[vivid wraith]

the far roofs intro fiction where the rats explain to Jenna that her yarn is a powerful artifact

[obsidian dagger]

Fair, I suppose.

I have this vague idea of a character who doesn't realize that something genuinely fantastical is unusual (has anyone seen that one weekly repairs manga, where the guy thinks his head falling off is embarassing and private and that's why nobody ever talks about it happening to them? that energy) but I don't have more detail.

Also, (probably) separately, a character whose social life and mental health are much improved by the rats that have periodically started to try to kill them due to them being declared a Mystery.

this one

[frank light]

Lmao

[obsidian dagger]

You could almost do something like that with Awakening, possibly... alternatively Creature of Fable, if most people don't believe them or think they have a vivid imagination and that's why the misconception has persisted.

...maybe a character who doesn't realize that when most people talk about "dreams" they aren't talking about a singular perfectly persistent perfectly coherent continuous world which is every bit as solid as the current one, which they can sometimes transfer stuff into or out of?

This reminds me of an idea for a thing I was once going to write, about a character who would occasionally talk about being "half-asleep" or "half-awake" for stuff, not realizing that when most people use those words, they don't literally mean "one hemisphere of my brain is sleeping and the other hemisphere is awake". (I had a complicated justification for this.)

bonus points if, from the way the narrative is written, the fact that this is what she means is also hidden from the audience because she doesn't feel the need to particularly remark on it at first.

[vivid wraith]

can't believe they're making Glitch knockoffs now

[still blaze]

xD

[obsidian dagger]

is this Wounded Angel? Maybe? It seems a bit more Sickness, like, Green somehow. Maybe.

It could be Wounded Angel but might also be Called Away.

[narrow tartan]

Wildlord creating sapient species as a form of thought experiment

[obsidian dagger]

I feel like surely somewhere there's an arc power, or maybe a quest, which prominently features "giving someone something important to you, as a symbol of trust, and thus earning their friendship/safety". I think Impressario can do it, at minimum? Probably Sentimental?

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. Is Jones from Gunnerkrigg Court a Mystery?

[candid compass]

all I know is she's not a robot

[fleet harbor]

She’s a bird

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. Lancer Mech skills. Frame, Agility, Systems, and Engineering, as inhuman attributes for Indomitable/Monstrous.

[vivid wraith]

oooh

[narrow tartan]

Frame and Agility aren't too hard to conceptualize

Systems is somewhat easy

Engineering is kind of vague

[fleet harbor]

... it's been a while, engineering is heat cap and extra uses of limited weapons/systems?

[narrow tartan]

nods

[candid compass]

yeah

[vivid wraith]

it's the mech version of "superior vitality"

[magic mason]

I feel like inhuman frame is basically superior vitality for mech and say “I am always strong enough to win”
Inhuman agility is basically Colker’s superior Grace skill and say “I am always fast enough to win”
Inhuman systems would probably give you like “superior intellect” and make you like “I am always smart enough to win”
And engineering would give you… superior Forge and say “I can always burn enough resources to win”

[narrow tartan]

Nods, superior engines... is very nifty to think about.

[magic mason]

Reason I did superior forge is because the skill would also have like, your ability to fab consumables

On top of your ability to handle extreme heat

[patent tiger]

Now I'm pondering Hull/Agility/Systems/Engineering as though they were miraculous stats in full

[magic mason]

Hmmm that ones odd
At least for hull and agility

I can see Systems and Engineering pretty easy

[vivid wraith]

Indomitable vs Aspect

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. Possibly draw inspiration from the associated Lancer frames?

[magic mason]

I was presuming we would be doing new miraclous stats

[vivid wraith]

right

[magic mason]

Systems as a…. Blue or Black arc idk that acts as a pseudo parellel to adept and leans into “hacking as basically magic”, but more “arcane”
Engineering as a “forge god” type arc in purple probably, leaning into the more consumables and fire themed stuff that engineering has going on

[restive ridge]

Hull is a Black Arc about putting your trust into the abstract concept of "The Meta"

[fleet harbor]

I could imagine whole miraculous stats about fast and tough

[magic mason]

Yeah but how do we you make those distinct enough from Aspect

Like Monstrous is about being strong but its also about being The Big Bad Wolf

[fleet harbor]

In the case of Hull, I'd imagine it as centering around a certain quality of absolute immovability

Total certainty of self

For Agility I'd see it less as "you can perform mundane feats of quickness at a miraculous level" and more as the whole family of intuitive-but-nonsensical speedster bullshit powers

[restive ridge]

https://x.com/SexbeanPernicus/status/1768132382497140811

PERNICUS (@SexbeanPernicus) on X

YOU: [stabs one of my organs]

ME: Vestigial. Didn't need it

YOU: [stabs another organ]

ME: Redundant. I have four of those.

YOU:[visibly frustrated, stabbing another organ]

ME: [one side of my face suddenly drooping] I'm fime. Westidial. Didm't use it

Twitter · Mar 14, 2024, 4:29 AM

Hull can do this

(generate new organs spontanously)

[vivid wraith]

leonardo does that

[candid compass]

as long as you keep stabbing him in the heart

and also he's not in sunlight

[fleet harbor]

I think maybe Hull would be tied to a specific metaphor

[narrow tartan]

I once brainstormed vaguely Nobilis like mystic powers themed around different Pathfinder Domains

No idea what context it would be used in. But. Artifice would have teaching great students, creating artifacts, and physical dominion

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. Fallen Angel of E-Waste

[narrow tartan]

Peasant Railgun is a Flower Rite

[vivid wraith]

yeah

[tall jolt]

Powder Keg of Justice

[restive ridge]

https://samkriss.substack.com/p/manifesto-of-the-armed-front-of-love

Fallen Angels post

[obsidian dagger]

That is a supremely weird story.

[restive ridge]

It ended up taking a more banal turn than expected, but really I should have seen it

||I decides on it being Fallen Angel codes when I thought it was going to be "violence is a form of love" but really it should be Games because it is "ove is the ultimate form of selfishness that demands display" but its too late for that||

[obsidian dagger]

It feels like someone has done something very strange with the properties of Romantic Love. Possibly a Prophet with the "surprisingly, this is inspired" angle on things?

||And Gamers get Prophet, I think? They've been kind of in flux.||

[restive ridge]

They do, in Glitch

[vivid wraith]

sam what are you cooking

[obsidian dagger]

...random thought: Ave Xia Rem Y has a very Games-coded villain, if you're interested in what that looks like.

[narrow tartan]

That. Didnt have the energy to read all of that

[reef perch]

georgiy resnik

[obsidian dagger]

Thinking about my idea for a quest arc. Does "You hurt someone, or think you've hurt them, but they're not upset" read clearly as a major quest goal? I think it's a good one, at least.

[magic mason]

Yeah

[obsidian dagger]

this default-gold quest set is for characters who, at the start, feel isolated because nobody Gets It enough to help them. So, uh... pick anything that
a. is a skill that can be practiced; and
b. is something that most people wouldn't feasibly know how to do well
and I'll share how I think it might go down. (I already have vague ideas of what it might look like with the talents being a Superior Werewolf skill, or getting really serious and competitive about a card game, or learning alchemy or psychic powers (which might be a magical skill or might be a Hack since those also work via Gold arcs).

Like, it should be able to work with "I don't know how to werewolf and am hitting the limits on what I can blindly figure out on my own" or "it's getting to the point where I need specialized equipment and tutoring to do well, and I just don't have that" or "this is a competitive thing, and I'm so head-and-shoulders better at this than everybody else that I can't really meaningfully improve by facing them" would work.

I guess "this is a competitive thing, but I'm so bad at this that I can't even get started with learning" could be a thing... but that's not quite the tone I was initially expecting.

[narrow tartan]

Should different Sealed users have different design spaces for their powers?

For their hacks?

[restive ridge]

Yes

[magic mason]

Depends on the context

Within a splat it tends to be* narrower

But in general, like if your a Chuubo’s or Far Roof’s game

I would recommend if 2 people take system to make those systems distinct

[obsidian dagger]

Sealed/Reality Syndrome/Cheat is about training a skill that other people can't do. I think that, even within a single splat, it wouldn't be wrong for most people to have different variations on it? But even if they're shared, it would be rare.

[magic mason]

Deceivers almost always have some sort of power copying ability(referred to as The Second Skin, a form of cosmic identity theft) and fallen tend to use it to model omnipresence

[obsidian dagger]

...omnipresence? I mean, Typhon uses it to manipulate snakes and Sa'a Lingurth (in the aspect of Psalida Caesar) uses it to have tentacles coming out of arbitrary locations, so that makes some sense.

I also genuinely think that Forbidden Scrollery (the Touhou manga) has a protagonist with a very lowkey form of Hack; she starts with a Childish Wish of "I wish I could read everything!" and goes from there.

[magic mason]

Fallen, and Nobilis hell in general have a big theme that Hell Is Always With You

There is always a light at the end of the tunnel, even if sometimes its a deep red flame

Heaven doesn’t care about you

But Hell Is Always Watching

Hell watched you grow up
Hell was there for your first kiss

That’s just how it is

[obsidian dagger]

So... what sort of experience do they generally share? Since part of that is from when it was Orange, but sharing an experience is still part of the power set's DNA.

[magic mason]

Actually this isn’t accurate

Hell is always with you, but Grace Invades, heaven comes down into your life like a bolt of lightning and forces you to become a better person while you are just trying to get some coffee

[magic mason]

It seems like Deceivers have pretty variable experiences, their system(partially because its a 3eism) just usually ends up manifesting as some form of power copying called The Second Skin

Iolathe has hers in GMD, she can copy the powers of any boy she has kissed or any girl who she has brushed the hair of

Basically sealed for decievers is at least partially being used to carry over one of their iconic 3e mechanics

Kinda like Wyrd/Accursed is for strategists

[obsidian dagger]

which actually has fun implications with nonbinary Rinley, since the Titovs explicitly seek out (or, in one character variant, create) Rinley to deal with Iolithae... but I digress.

[magic mason]

Exactly!

Its also wacky because Decievers experiences are used for both their Reality Syndrome and their Creature Of Delirium

So… square that circle

[obsidian dagger]

Yeah! Very true.

...if I'm making a custom character with both Primordial (a Black arc, but it has a Mood and Element like Green arcs do) and Called Away, is it OK to have slightly different moods for both?

Because Minotaur would like to be able to use Green arcs to spread and embody a Mood of "being lost", but possibly also acquires extra shadows based on people's experiences of "crushing mundanity".

[magic mason]

Almost definitely ok

I do like it when people have a shared Noun between multiple stats because it unifies their powerset a bit, but it’s not actually a problem to give them multiple I don’t think

[obsidian dagger]

And the point of Minotaur is in kind of intentionally conflating "being lost, in a labyrinth of grey walls" and "feeling crushed by mundanity, day after day the same".

[magic mason]

Who all does have shared nouns

Nobles have their Spiritual Element and their Star Quality Mythos as their estate

Presumably Wild Magisters have their Mythos, their Element, and their Flaw all being their estates.

Serpents have Vastness and Wanderer which probably are estate fueled, maybe allegorical flaw as estate too

True gods probably share elements between their stuff and share moods between their stuff with Vastness/Wanderer/Symbolic

Deceivers have their experience in both their theft and sealed

[obsidian dagger]

Yeah, Minotaur is using the True God splat. Usually nouns aren't shared between multiple arcs of different colors but are shared among same-color arcs, but there's some exceptions, expecially with Primordial/Vastness doing weird stuff with both Mood and Element.

[magic mason]

Strategists have the same Curse for both their Eide and Wyrd

[obsidian dagger]

Is Eide Frantic Silver?

[magic mason]

Yeah

Strategists are
Frantic Silver
Sickly Silver
Immortal Blue
Frantic Purple

[obsidian dagger]

I feel like, if Minotaur is getting True God, then I might as well lean into it and take from all the pools. I wasn't going to have a Second Self, but that allows Minotaur to always be in the center of its labyrinth (which is very important) and also able to wander around and menace people in the outer sections of the labyrinth as well, instead of going "oh, well, usually Minotaur's in the center but occasionally leaves" or being overly reliant on Spirit Walking. And, as mentioned, the Primordial stuff involves visiting people, learning what parts of mundane everyday life they consider to be crushingly oppressive, and manifesting an additional shadow that walks behind it based on said understanding.

Those are how Minotaur kills you, alongside making your safe home into a maze which you cannot escape and trapping you, and of course the giant axe because what kind of minotaur doesn't have a giant axe?

Hunting and killing Minotaur is actually less of a terrible idea than hunting most other Mysteries, though! So there's that. Minotaur isn't even that hard to kill... you just have to be careful not to immediately revive it again.

[obsidian dagger]

Also I'm still listening to this because it's good, and wondering whether it's Wounded Angel, or something Green, or... Creature of Delirium maybe??

[obsidian dagger]

...I also need to share this panel because it is entrely Seizhi Schwan energy, right down to the reason (he accidentally let animals know that he can understand their speech and now they're all pestering him for favors)

[vivid wraith]

is spider man eide+gatecrasher

[candid compass]

Eide seems appropriate
Style I'm not as sure

[restive ridge]

He is on the Fallen set imo

[vivid wraith]

oooooh

Wound Power: Great Responsibility

[restive ridge]

👁️

[candid compass]

I had previously talked with fluffy about a Wounded interpretation where your Bound Wounds are oaths and restrictions you place on yourself
for a Paladin-esque thing

[narrow tartan]

Asked about sealed. Because I had an idea for a Fallen. And. By similar I don't mean the same?

[vivid wraith]

I have no idea how Fallen Sealed works tbh

[narrow tartan]

Like. Deceivers by default all have Second Skin. And a conclusion I reached is that alternate Deceiver hacks should be of the general form of "bullshit meta magic" which was inspired by someone using miracle catching as a hack

[frank light]

My assumption on sealed for characters is that they all get their own unique sealed power.

But deceivers have a notable second skin gift that’s common among them

Similar to world breakers hand

[narrow tartan]

nods

[frank light]

Where strategists don’t…actually have it but it’s a gift a solid amount of them have

And they can mimic it pretty well anyway

Course, fallen might also use sealed to be like “actually it’s how I’m with you at all times” but it’s not well specified

[narrow tartan]

nods it seems a little redundant to me. But it does work

One observation I have is that. The Wish Granting Engine is Nobilis 3e Imperial Miracles. And Allegorical Truths sort of work as the basis of a wishing map

[frank light]

Sssorta yeah!

The wish granting engine sealed power does work on similar rules to imperial miracles in 3e

In fact it’s possible that’s how imperators do it

When they have sealed

So just serpents and fallen I guess

[narrow tartan]

And both Imperial Sealed users have Allegorical

[frank light]

That they do

It’s because they tend to be besties

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. I have a vague feeling that Serpents are more likely to use Sealed for Imperial Miracles/Wishes than Fallen

But not certain

Because Called Away and Child of the Ash don't have clear wish type things

Well they do have wishes. But not quite as broad ones?

[magic mason]

They do get Green Quest Miracles

[restive ridge]

Wooo

[frank light]

there is moodsplosion

which might be the biggest imperial miracle type of thing

you just EMANATE your mood

[fleet harbor]

Child of the Ash is pretty specialized, though

The specialization is "you are an extremely powerful giant monster"

[frank light]

child of the ash is great

its about being the estate or a creature of it rather than ruling it

its sorta like youre the world of it? or youre a loadbearing part of it

its described that youre the kinda thing your estate would live on.

Like if you somehow travelled into the void beyond the world an estate themed world might grow on your back

at least, thematically thats sorta its vibe

its very loadbearing

[candid compass]

Still kinda funny to me that only Nobles have Domain
Imperators all use different stats to embody their estates

It does make sense, but still funny with Domain being the most archetypal estate based stat

[obsidian dagger]

Child of the Ash is Immortal Green yeah.

[fleet harbor]

It also makes sense to me insofar as a lot of Imperators don’t feel directly related to their estates

Like, Lord Entropy, the King of Evil? He’s composed of Destruction, Desecration, and Scorn. Not evil or entropy.

And those estates make sense for him, no question

But who he is and the laws he is made of are slightly different things

Meanwhile, a power is The God of XYZ

They are now fire, or storms, or love, or vacuum, or backsies

[frank light]

Yea

For an imperator those estates are just sorta…organs. Laws, bones.
Less a thing they rule over just a thing they are

Powers are rulers

[candid compass]

Most of them still have at least one stat to represent their estates
For Angels it's probably Lore, and Adept to a lesser extent
Fallen I'm less sure, might be their Allegorical
Wildlords and True Gods have Symbolic
Gamers have Prophet
Rulers, also not sure. Weird manifestation of their purple stats perhaps
Serpents have Vastness

Wanderer is also usually estate based

[fleet harbor]

Yeah, they relate to their Estates, but in the way you and I relate to our bones, I guess?

[candid compass]

It's definitely different yes

[fleet harbor]

Whole bunch of fancy stuff I can do on account of having bones, but I am tragically not gk god of bones :(

[candid compass]

Though Nobles also have a certain degree of being their estate, via Persona

[narrow tartan]

I think. Fallen probably connect to their estates via sealed

Because. They should use Sealed a little differently from Serpents. And Serpents have two Green Arcs which tie them to their Estates

[fleet harbor]

I’m trying to remember, fallen are Holy, Sealed, Wounded, and … ?

[narrow tartan]

Allegorical

[frank light]

allegorical

its said thats what their gardener stat turned into

allegorical also connects them to their estate

since allegorical makes them representative of it

[fleet harbor]

What is Allegorical in Chuubo’s again?

[frank light]

allegory

immortal Orange

[fleet harbor]

… yes I suppose that tracks

[narrow tartan]

I think that Green quest miracles are a bit too tied to their element to Nobilis 3e Imperial Miracles and Moodsplosion is too localized.

Though they do some od the same stuff

[fleet harbor]

I think allegory does go to that notion that maybe attributes for imperators represent more of a broad notion that is the composite of a bunch of estates than they do the estates of an Imperator per se

But it also probably depends

More things in Heaven and earth etc

[narrow tartan]

Angels and Fallen Angels probably both do a bunch of microaggressions

I should write down all the arcsets I have come up with or helped come up with

[frank light]

thats sorta what i assume

or at least
each arcset corresponds to one "estate" thats more like one aspect of them

and from the imperators pov, theyre all relatively coherent

like, allegorical represents something that the imperator is indicative of, holy represents some kind of philosophy or ideology, sealed portrays some kind of key experiential nature of an estate, and maybe wounded has thematic estate based things to bind to, devices, and blasphemies

and in total they portray like, 3 or 4 estates distributed across them but to the imperator its a coherent thing rather than "3-4 elements I rule"

course I could be wrong about that

but i think its a fun way to play it

[fleet harbor]

Yeah

It might also depend on the Imperator

[frank light]

very true!

some of them have some very strong "keyword" based things

like true gods

wanderer, vastness, and primordial care a lot about the 'element' or 'principle' theyre a part of

...i was about to list angels as a counter example but actually gardener has a lot of potent "specific theme" in it, alongside lore and adept

i suppose mimics have a surprisingly limited set of "things that care about elemental keywords"

[restive ridge]

Sometimes the Arc keywords might just not have anything to do with their Estates
Sometimes you are the Fallen Angel of Anti-Piracy Software, Gold and Anaerobism but your Sealed Experience is being transgender, you know?

[frank light]

thats true

it could also go with the 3e thing of just "yeah one estate is their main estate, but they do have others"

[narrow tartan]

I remember seeing Jenna compare releasing the blasphemy to detransitioning

[frank light]

fascinating

releasing the blasphemy is probably, emotionally, somewhere on that scale

its a very much bad thing

[narrow tartan]

Yeah.

I think I would typically try and merge the estates a little into a bigger thing?

[frank light]

probably a fair idea!

[restive ridge]

That completely tracks

[fleet harbor]

It is fun that the blasphemy can do stuff for you eventually though

Like ... helpful stuff

There's some aspect of the blasphemy being something you can come to terms with

And acknowledge as being part of yourself

As much as it sucks

[frank light]

yeah!

its awesome i love it

[narrow tartan]

nods

[frank light]

its this part of you that starts out as awful and difficult to reconcile but you eventually do come to terms with it
sorta

thats kinda what going on some of the arcs about suffering is like

the start of it is a bad time and usually by the end you have access to really powerful abilities, and not only that, the tools to come to terms with it

its not like you suffer more because youre at a higher level, youve grown with it

[obsidian dagger]

The Blasphemy is also... not necessarily you? Or, at least, thinking of it as "not you" isn't inherently wrong. It can be something else, something Other, that you've locked away and bound.

[frank light]

depends on the source of it to be fair

there can be a number of reasons why you have a blasphemy inside you

sometimes it was put there by someone else, but other times it could indeed be something you were built around

or some evil version of yourself

or maybe some part of yourself that youve locked away

[fleet harbor]

At the very least it's a part of your life

[frank light]

its a power about dealing with that thing locked inside you but what that thing is varies

[fleet harbor]

It may not literally be you but

It's in you, and it's not going away

[frank light]

for the fallen in nobilis it represents the trauma of their fall from heaven and the wounds they sustained by being this perfect thing thrown into the muck of hell

for the mimics, its something they were built around, it is the core of them, this horrid truth that twists their estates into falsehoods

yeah

its something you kinda have to live with

[obsidian dagger]

It's something you have to live with, but... Blue arcs are always about negotiation between the Self and the Other, and the Sickly Blue Wounded Angel modifies that primarily by making the Other terrible and stuffing it into your chest. But it's still Other. Of course, the self is always defined in terms of the other.

[frank light]

yeah

theres a lot of variety with it

i do like "a story you reflexively start believing is true" as a blasphemy release

that one is quite fun

im much more partial to "literal explosion of nightmares out from your heart" because i like visceral and physical expressions for powers

but its really fun

[restive ridge]

Mimic-making

[frank light]

damn

so mean

[narrow tartan]

That just sounds like depression. My mimic coding increases

[frank light]

It could be!

[narrow tartan]

Sometimes I try and extract my heart just in case it turns out that Nobilis is factually correct

I just want depression to come with phenomal cosmic powers

Or like. Moderate cosmic powers.

[obsidian dagger]

...I have created a Mystery whose utter anathema would be a person with a special interest in or including the history of concrete.

Minotaur traps you in a labyrinth of featureless grey concrete walls, but if you're able to look at them and go "actually, featureless slabs of concrete are fascinating in their own right" and really believe it, that's poison to Minotaur. You'll escape so easily.

[frank light]

that is true they are fascinating in their own right

like were they poured? or was the labyrinth carved
was the stone naturally formed or was it mixed. how was it mixed in the first place-
I immediately am thrown out of the labyrinth

[fleet harbor]

Start rattling off Historical Concrete Facts at the Minotaur

[obsidian dagger]

That would work! You can turn Minotaur aside by "making the mundane into something fantastic, or, revealing the wondrous qualities it already held" and the latter wording is definitely intended to include infodumping.

Also, by celebrating any holiday. This doesn't have to be a religious thing. Talking like a pirate on Talk Like A Pirate Day will drive off Minotaur, provided you know it's Talk Like A Pirate Day.

[tall jolt]

Power of Contrarianism

[obsidian dagger]

That would be an interesting one! I once had an idea for a Power of Bullheadedness, which I imagine would be rather similar (they were one of the commanders in the Emu War, on the side of the emus).

[tall jolt]

im not sure exactly what it could do

Kinda would wanna take notes from Slay The Princes

[obsidian dagger]

I have the impression... you know how sometimes people joke about people believing that everyone can speak English if you say it loudly and slowly enough? This emu is convinced that with clear enough enunciation, people will be able to understand its squawking, and is so bullheadedly stubborn and unwilling to accept that most people can't understand emu squawks that, somehow, it makes itself understood.

[tall jolt]

I meant Contrarian but ye

[obsidian dagger]

I don't know what Contrarianism could do. There's a noteworthy contrarian in Fallen London? Hm...

[tall jolt]

its mostly just rejecting popular opinions

[obsidian dagger]

Contrarianism...
• ...supports the underdog
• ...hinders the leading position
• ...breaks consensus
• ...never stands for something, only against```
Maybe something like that?

[tall jolt]

Maybe

Also annoys people probably lol

[obsidian dagger]

Probably.

Arguably that could be folded into "breaks consensus", or they could more clearly reworded to accomodate both ideas?

[tall jolt]

maybe?

[vivid wraith]

chipping away

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1185821951927779409/1320585331015155712/image.png?ex=676a226e&is=6768d0ee&hm=23fead44cb8c3c94c9addd5cb6a203f1e94016956a6afd9cc8f0de0338a9b82a&

[narrow tartan]

I remember. A story I read once. In which a grade school kid gets a magic puppet hand which removes his filter. And. He ends up laughing at a student on chemotherapy for being bald. And then shaves his own hair the next day

[magic mason]

If the GMD cast were in a fantasy setting with more focus of a focus on combat(like if they got sent to the techno genre JRPG dimension) what would their associated weapons be

[vivid wraith]

can chuubo get a fire emblems dragonstone or is that cheating

[magic mason]

Fire emblem dragonstone is pretty funny

[vivid wraith]

There's a spear that shows up in Natalia's story, right?

[magic mason]

My take is
Chuubo has a like, legendary one handed sword
Seizhi has a greatsword and uses it to be a bodyguard
Leo has some weird techy weapon, like a laser weapon or something
Rinley could definitely have a gun, but generally would slot into “rogue”
Jasper as a staff caster makes a lot of sense to me
Natalia is unarmed, in a “beats the shit out of you” way
E2 is a summoner, like he doesn’t fight all of his attacks are just different gardener minons
Miramie would be unarmed, in a “doesn’t want to fight” way

[vivid wraith]

oooooooh

[restive ridge]

E2 is shown in cutscenes as using a staff but its setup to a joke where he joins your party and immediately starts beating people up with his fists

[fleet harbor]

Natalia I think uses whatever comes along

[vivid wraith]

do we have anything on canon/"canon" Leonardo and Seizhi interactions?

[obsidian dagger]

Chuubo would have a legendary weapon of some description due to access to Allegory, definitely. Rinley having a gun is just a very funny thing to say.

E2 and Leonardo both read as mages (with techy weapons included)... like, Entropy II has minions but he also canonically knows some amount of magic to do stuff like screwing with ley lines?

Jasper honestly... okay this is weird but I think she would have a dragonstone if we're counting that as an option.

[vivid wraith]

Growing new limbs to smite evildoers is a thing for her!

[obsidian dagger]

It is! I mean... okay, a staff thematically would make sense, but if we're talking Fire Emblem specifically, staves are for healing and support spells and Jasper wouldn't do that.

If anything... Entropy II doesn't actually have any powers directly for healing, does he? But he gives off that sort of energy.

That, or you give him a lance and call him Jagen.

...I was gonna say that he doesn't have a horse... but he does have a motorcycle, which is a lot like a horse.

[fleet harbor]

Rinley has creature of fable, right?

[obsidian dagger]

Yes.

[fleet harbor]

Ranged weapon + horse/horse-like being seems like a natural fit for her, then

[obsidian dagger]

I mean, true.

[fleet harbor]

So like, fits with the gun

[obsidian dagger]

Creature of Fable means having "mounted archer" in the DNA.

[frank light]

The girl was back. She was sitting at one of the many desks around the archives, slouching as if asleep. But she wasn't asleep, he could see her breathing, it was too erratic. Too fast.

He had originally taken to calling her the ghost. A ghost of...what, Malakh? Possibly, the thought indeed occurred to him. The ghost had those same robes, that same mask, that same...ephemeral sort of presence. Though nowadays, it wanders around the archives in flesh and blood so probably not a ghost.
Not like he asked, nor does he plan to.

The girl turns to him and his heart stops for a moment. She *almost* looks like Melanie. Sometimes, if he looks right, he thinks he can see falling stars in her eyes. 
But he crushes those thoughts. It must be a terrible burden on the girl, to resemble that woman, to be afflicted by that same shard she places in all her victims. It's not like he is a stranger to having falling stars in ones eyes, Melanie made sure of that.

No, he shouldn't hold it against the girl, just for being another one of her victims. 

She's staring at him, as if she herself has seen a ghost. But the kind of ghost that makes you feel sad instead of afraid. If you haven't seen ghosts then you might not know the difference but he's seen more than a couple and there is one. 

The thought occurs to him, in this awkward moment where he accidentally disturbed her peace or...whatever she was doing at the desk. "Have you eaten?"

The girl makes this strange series of confused, frightened, and doubtful expressions. "Does it matter?" 
His heart melts there. That voice...it sounded like it hadn't spoken in ages.

Poor girl. "Let me get you something to eat."

"N-no, Hideo you don't have to-" 

"No, no I insist. I won't have a guest starving in the archives."

Hideo Hayashi is the most amazing character ive ever seen i love him

[narrow tartan]

Strategist traveling with a giant arm that shows up offscreen and grabs them

[fleet harbor]

Dying of This Giant Arm

[narrow tartan]

Nah. Weird body part arcana

Bane is some variant of falling apart

Or splitting into pieces

[narrow tartan]

Original glitch. Surviving some sort of accident requiring major surgery to be put back together. Surgeons misplace bellybutton. Realize world is wrong as body is insecure

[narrow tartan]

begins thinking about writing up 3e Nobilis stat second skin based on memories of 4e sealed as second skin write up

Miracle levels 1, 4, and 7 form a ladder of the sharing experience. 2 and whatever the greater version of what 2 is are something social like which might depend on the splat

0 is weak emulation of your second skin sort of like Emulations but includes skills, cheap gifts, and is hard capped at level 1 bondflictions

3 is used for normal second skin powers but with an altnate mode I will explain later.

5 is sort of use whoever you are copying in a powered up way. Can be effectively free MP. Or it can power up a gift. Or substitute something else for a treasure

6 is used as part of ritual to equip second skin or aquire new ones the normal way.

8 is more broken invocations of a second skins okwers.

9 is cheating on use of second skins and how they are equipped

And. 3. Alternate mode is to only half equip a second skin so you don't have passive access to the second skin stuff but don't have to deal with bondflictions. But can turn stuff on by focusing on it

Amy thoughts?

[magic mason]

I feel like…. If you are turning it into a nobilis 3e stat you want to integrate the “everyone by default kinda trusts” you part of sealed

Because that feels kinda important for decievers

[frank light]

People aren’t aggressive to you by default or-actually

Maybe you could integrate that as a third weird power based skill

Like cool or shine

[magic mason]

Yeah

[frank light]

A strong focus on Sealed is the Experience

With the cheat as this slowly mountingingly useful power as you get to higher levels

[narrow tartan]

The experience and everybody trusts you would be 1, 2, 4, 7?

But that part of sealed is a little harder to wrap my head around.

[narrow tartan]

Ooh properly read this! Oooh

[frank light]

very silly boy

[patent tiger]

That makes sense, yeah

[frank light]

leo has very silly powers

including an imperial miracle that edits memories
...which may be responsible for at least 50% of the contradictory world information about chuubos

amazing really

the other 50% might be chuubos own fault from what i hear

[candid compass]

yeah the past of Town is unreliable, because Leo can change and delete memories

including his own IIRC

[frank light]

yup

its an imperial miracle

[narrow tartan]

Entropy 1 using Creature of Fable to found School...

[frank light]

lol

[narrow tartan]

In the past I have contemplated the idea of him using Allegorical to make himself the founder of school. But the possibility that his Creature of Fable includes founding schools off screen is very amusing

Actually that would be a funny trick/schtick for a Warmain

Hmm.

[obsidian dagger]

Regarding giant body part arcana for strategists, since I missed the earlier conversation:

https://tenor.com/view/monty-python-stomp-flying-circus-gif-11573337

[obsidian dagger]

I am now thinking about Ancient Magus's Bride again, and Chihiro (the main character) is such a Wounded Angel.

And probably Sentimental... honestly I can see her doing both Purple and Blue things at various times.

Actually. Is she Sentimental or is she Impressario?

She might also be Called Away to... the magus's cabin probably? I could envision some of what she does as Green. Or maybe Black... she gets transformed, but most of that seemed like Wounded Angel stuff.

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. The shadow aspect of Wanderer/Called Away is kind of funky. Because I am shallow better at understanding what something does than what it means

[frank light]

its a weird one

[vivid wraith]

There's a couple defined bits that are like...

[frank light]

i do sometimes wonder what it is for as well but its also just a really neat thing

[narrow tartan]

(i put a crossed out shallow because)

[vivid wraith]

less "functional" and more "here's fuel for your quests"

[frank light]

i think its one of those defined bits thats meant more for like
the weird metaphysical connections rather than an obvious thing-also yeah

[narrow tartan]

(i caught myself putting myself down but wanted to put it in there)

[vivid wraith]

the Impresario "what are you missing" is in a similar lane

[narrow tartan]

(as a reference)

[frank light]

yeah

[vivid wraith]

So narratively it's there to be clear that your Realm isn't... secure

[frank light]

impresario's "what are you missing" and the details about it being a bit alien doesnt add to the mechanics but instead adds to the sickly nature

[vivid wraith]

it's in danger, somehow, and that's part of what pulls you there

[frank light]

the "why are you not having a good day"

[narrow tartan]

The shadow stands out because it is odd, and I don't understand it. Therefore I consider it to probably be the most important part

[frank light]

its odd but i think its just one of those jenna abilities that is like
theres no obvious narrative equation as to why it is there compared to any other thing with a sickly arc in otherworldly

but like

it does work for it

its weird but its fun
and gives connective tissue when an npc has it

because their wanderer shadow can be any other being

[narrow tartan]

I'm trting to remember where I saw Wanderer/Gardener other than my [adjective] yordle imperator idea.

Because I feel like i saw it somewhere and connected the Shadow with Toxicity in my head

But Yordle Imperator tied its splats together with witnessing the world.

World coming online

[vivid wraith]

ooooh

[obsidian dagger]

Green is inherently dualistic. That's part of why the shadow exists.

It's a parallel to Wicked Mode.

[narrow tartan]

Madeline Celeste and Badeline Celeste are on Wanderer

[frank light]

thats true

though i could see any number of forms a dualistic thing could be

and that dualism is less significantly present in the Spiritual arc
not to say that it isn't but it takes less of a strong role

[frank light]

thats fun

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. Doing funky stuff with your Shadow.

[frank light]

theres lots of funky stuff that can happen with your shadow

especially if your shadow is the type of thing you can reconcile with
it depends!

[obsidian dagger]

Spiritual is weirdly less dualistic, yeah. But Green anytime quests in Chuubo's are a double-sided card, so that dualism is still baked in.

[frank light]

that they are!

theyre about a whole other self

or other half

its weird

at least quest miracles interact with it a lot

same with the quest arcs

[obsidian dagger]

They're about being two things at once, and navigating that.

[frank light]

i find this funny though because like

silver arcs are about dealing with baggage

and how this manifests is...

INTERESTING

[obsidian dagger]

Silver arcs are about being. They're about just living, in a circumstance where "just living" is worthy of a quest.

[frank light]

Indomitable "be an eldritch monster" troubled "sickly genius with a terrible power" accursed "living weapon whos life sucks"

its

great

i love silver arcs

but i love how it manifests the whole "having baggage and living through it"

with each one having a deep problem or curse that just kinda sucks
and what your relationship is to it

[obsidian dagger]

It's very interesting in ways which are hard to articulate.

[frank light]

with indomitable being something that rises above it
while accursed is tormented by it and has to find a way to live in spite of it

[fleet harbor]

Take both

[frank light]

you sure can do that

[fleet harbor]

Be the Most Cursed

[obsidian dagger]

Then there's Troubled, which is Frantic, so it's about existing independent.

[frank light]

strategists take troubled and accursed which makes them pretty damn cursed

[candid compass]

Silver arcs are mostly about being angsty and introspective tbh

[frank light]

if you somehow got indomitable in the mix it would get pretty dang cursed and accursed and it would be quite funny

"Ow" kinda existence

[candid compass]

though in Glitch I think ironically Emptiness tend to be the most chill arcs somehow
they are sad and tragic, but less... 'eventful' than the other two

[frank light]

yeah

[obsidian dagger]

Indomitable is about being cursed, but the world supports you in that, and you get to be an awesome cursed monster. Accursed is about being cursed in a way that's inherently at odds with the world, and so your ability to Just Live is estranged. And Troubled? Troubled is interesting since it's Frantic, and so should be about having a curse and just... living it independently of the world. Like, there's the whole world, and then there's also you, suffering on the side.

[frank light]

silver arcs themselves are...less quiet but more on the side

i would argue that indomitable doesnt exactly have the world support you

youre still somewhat alien to the world

youre just so immortal you dont give a shit

[obsidian dagger]

It's Immortal, so even the suffering is... I feel like it's the "right" way to suffer, sort of?

[candid compass]

Monstrous is barely suffering tbh
which is why its the funniest Silver

[frank light]

"law that is alien to the natural order"

[obsidian dagger]

Ooh. Where is that?

[frank light]

book of golden hours

[vivid wraith]

Book of Golden Hours

[obsidian dagger]

Because that is interesting and makes me really think about the IFS trichotomy a bit differently.

[candid compass]

you're "cursed", but it doesn't actually hurt you
you can angst about it, but it mostly just gives you cool superpowers

[frank light]

The biggest thing about immortal im realizing

Is that it’s law

Less right and wrong law

Or relation to the world

But being true

Being law

[vivid wraith]

Yeah that sounds right

[frank light]

Even the excrucians when they have immortal arcs, they are alien to the world

But their immortal arcs are at least alien law

[obsidian dagger]

I think that. Hm. I think that Silver isn't about suffering at all. It's about living. It's about living through something. And usually, when that's a story worth telling, that's because there's suffering in the way of that happening. But it's not about the suffering.

[frank light]

Well the suffering is pretty important

It’s about living through that suffering

But the suffering is a key component

[candid compass]

the Curse/Bane is the big Noun of the Silver arcs
just Monstrous/Indomitable is the one that's not really affected by it

[frank light]

It’s relevant to the quest arcs at least

[candid compass]

Eide means you are hunted by your curse, Wyrd means its killing you
Indomitable its there, but you just deal with it fine
you can curse other people, and it's bad for them, but you yourself are fine

[obsidian dagger]

I think, maybe... they talk a big game about how being Indomitable means that the "curse" isn't much of a curse at all. But what if we took that in a different direction? What if, instead of saying "Indomitable 'suffers' in a way that's ultimately fine", we said "Indomitable suffers in a way that doesn't look like suffering, and that you wouldn't know is suffering, because it doesn't seem like it should be a curse?"

[frank light]

Well from the outside it is a curse

It’s just that indomitable isn’t very affected by it

As shown above

They rise above it

[obsidian dagger]

No, I thought it was kind of the opposite.

[frank light]

They are quite literally indomitable

[frank light]

This section seems at least clear with the intent of the curse

Which is that it absolutely seems like a curse!

[obsidian dagger]

Like, who would describe "being immortal and awesome" as a curse? But, nevertheless, if your curse is "being an immortal awesome vampire", that's still a curse.

[frank light]

It’s just…you’re internally kinda fine.

[fleet harbor]

Indomitable is “you’re cursed and that’s fuckin’ awesome”

[obsidian dagger]

The curse itself isn't hurting you. But the way in which you're reacting to it, or the way in which other people are reacting to it, is, or else it wouldn't be a curse.

[vivid wraith]

there's still an element of like

"you're a vampire and that makes you unholy and unnatural"

you're estranged from the world in that sense

[obsidian dagger]

You're still doing the same quests about having the curse separate you from other people. You're still having moments of estrangement.

indomitable curse: gifted student

[vivid wraith]

but the side effects make up for it materially, without taking away your ability to brood dramatically

[fleet harbor]

I think it may be simpler than that: it’s the narrative archetype of “I am so tragically cursed, woe is me, I’ll have to beat the shit out of everyone and get tons of cool stuff and do whatever I want”

[vivid wraith]

is "brood dramatically" redundant, i feel like it is

[vivid wraith]

yeah basically

[candid compass]

yeah it's why I find Monstrous so funny

meanwhile Wyrd over there...

[fleet harbor]

I mean it’s right there in the name: you’re indomitable

[obsidian dagger]

It's funny but I... feel like there has to be a non-funny way of handling it, too? Like. Child of the Ash can be about turning into a giant octopus in a top hat, but it can also be deathly serious. I think Indomitable has to work in some way that's serious too.

[fleet harbor]

Like Batman has Indomitable

Tragically cursed to be the world’s coolest furry

[candid compass]

oh Indomitable is still very serious

[frank light]

I also think that it’s less like they’re lying about being in suffering or curse

[candid compass]

but like, in comparison it's hilarious

[frank light]

But their curse isn’t a tormentor compared to the other two

The other two actively chase you down or wound you

[candid compass]

Warmains are the iconic Monstrous havers, and they are terrifying

[obsidian dagger]

I think. I think it can seem hilarious. But part of the DNA is that they think this thing is a Curse, and the whole story falls apart unless they're right.

[frank light]

Nobody is sayin they’re wrong

[fleet harbor]

Yeah it’s the sort of curse where from the outside looking in you go “what the fuck are you whining about”

[frank light]

The key thing is that none of them are liars when they say they’re cursed

Just they don’t have a miraculous enforcement for it

[obsidian dagger]

Yeah, that was my point: the kind of suffering that maybe doesn't look like suffering from the outside.

[frank light]

I mean I was going in the reverse direction but sure

[candid compass]

and I do think to an extent other people being fed up with you being all Woe Is Me is also part of the point

[frank light]

Tbf that’s anyone on a silver arc

Like, look, sometimes you gotta slap a strategist and say “are you gonna let the fact that the world is wrong stop you from being happy?”

Cus otherwise they will continue to moan about it

[fleet harbor]

The big thing is that the other silver arcs are fed up with you if you’re indomitable, I think

[candid compass]

to a degree Emptiness is just about not always dwelling on your misery yes

[frank light]

Yeah

It’s about living and rising above

[vivid wraith]

This "from the outside" is very much an audience reaction i think
you're much less likely to get it in-world

[candid compass]

yeah
because again, Wyrd is literally dying over there

[fleet harbor]

And like, powers-wise indomitable really does have it pretty good

“Oh yeah I’m just a little bit infinitely strong and capable of shaping destiny to my will”

One of the examples used in BoGH is a xianxia cultivator, actually

[obsidian dagger]

I realize I don't adequately understand Troubled, while we're on the topic of Silver.

[vivid wraith]

mastering forbidden techniques, i imagine

[obsidian dagger]

Oh! Is Indomitable in BoGH the same as the version on Tumblr? Because I felt like it was missing something specific, and I'm curious if that something was added.

[vivid wraith]

what would it be missing?