last summer I went camping under the big waterfall of Kent. I guess this was a great trip for me, however some people do not understand why. Well, I did lose my left arm, but what the hell, I found out that I had a third arm. The invisible one. Since then I started to learn how to use my karma arm, and soon my skills were those of a master. It wasn't a surprise to me when people started turning their backs on me, since I was considered to be a freak and mentally ill. Funny thing, I can't tell them the truth, it would be like explaining the possibility of space travel to a goldfish. So I'm just trying to
#Jenna Moran Games (Nobilis, Chuubo's, Glitch, WTF)
obsidian dagger
narrow tartan
What if Lord Entropy's powers were as useless as a typical player character Familia?
narrow tartan
I have realized that the next logical step from Warmain who write real person fanfic. Is one who uses that as the basis of their Impresario
Scissors, my best conceived Warmain is not that cringe though
narrow tartan
Warmain Skitter wielding the test of rebellion/defiance
Looking for trustworthy, reasonable, and competent authority figures.
narrow tartan
Ryuugi has a prologue to a Noble turned Strategist Skitter story in which she is besties with Iolithae Septimian.
And has also talked about Taylor as a Mimic or Fallen because she definitely has Wounded Angel
vivid wraith
@frank light does Incubus have Gatecrasher
fleet harbor
Incubus Killsixbilliondemons?
frank light
yeah incubus killsixbilliondemons
i think hes got such an oddly specific powerset but
if i wanted to assign a chuubos esque arc combo that has little...actual metaphysical implication but still maps onto a splat
gatecrasher and troubled
fleet harbor
What is Gatecrasher again?
frank light
Style
fleet harbor
I think yeah
frank light
Lore Style and Wounded are in the same er...lineup
fleet harbor
Style because he actually fucking sucks at swords
frank light
he doesnt suck! hes pretty damn good at it!
hes just also
lopsided
in what he knows how to do
fleet harbor
Maya said he was always an exceptionally poor swordsman :D
He's using Style to pretend to have Aspect is my take
(I am not up to date in K6BD tho so I could be behind)
frank light
my take is that hes not pretending to have aspect
hes not lying about what he is
his style is breaking into the world of demiurges tbh
fleet harbor
Mm, I could see that
frank light
hes using the fact that hes really really good with stabbing people to make up for the fact that he does not...have the full demiurge skillset?
but doesnt really need to
he makes up for it in pure stabbin
if the other demiurges have stats that lean closer into adept, aspect, and maybe some other particular stats
he doesnt have anything they have
hes an 'illegitimate' demiurge so to speak, making up for that disparity with things he is really good at
candid compass
his style is breaking into the world of demiurges tbh
yeah that would have been my interpretation as well
fleet harbor
I got up to the end of Allison's training arc with Maya, and my understanding of Incubus at that point was that he sort of pretends at being the sword guy by using a whole bunch of other stuff that he actually is good at
candid compass
he sort of does that too, but he is also genuinely pretty good with a sword
fleet harbor
Like he's an incredible master of blood alchemy
And head of john
And a ton of other stuff
candid compass
he just fails at the philosophy Meti was trying to convey as well
fleet harbor
But he's not very good at cutting
frank light
objectively speaking
hes great at using a bladed implement to commit violence
meti is a fuckin shitass and shouldnt be trusted to speak of competency tbh
fleet harbor
I trust Maya to do so tho
candid compass
what Incubus fails at is that he is too afraid of death to truly understand Meti
frank light
i dont!
Both of these dumbasses were raised by a weirdo abusive swordswoman who hated both of them
fleet harbor
Like Incubus is an amazing killer who happens to be holding a sword was my understanding
frank light
neither of them are really reliable narrators when they come to eachother
especially given their former deep sibling dynamic
candid compass
Like Incubus is an amazing killer who happens to be holding a sword was my under...
yes
but similarly Meti's sword philosophy is also not actually about swords
fleet harbor
I would say that Incubus's inability to cut stuff is like ... subtextually important, though?
frank light
it is it is
candid compass
but the way I see it, Incubus is the bit from the manual where Meti writes about the weak swordsman clinging to victory
Incubus cannot accept the possibility of him dying, so he cannot fully understand Meti's ideas
fleet harbor
Meti says the fundamental action of a sword is to cut
frank light
i guess it depends on which part of the sword thing is important
candid compass
but the way I see it, Incubus is the bit from the manual where Meti writes about...
his whole thing is that he is a survivor
he will do anything to live just a little longer
and thus will never accept that he might have to die
frank light
and my sheer disrespect of meti as a person inclines me to not trust her in general
weird...spiteful old lady
yeah
hes got a whole survival thing
hes scrappy
and messy
he is messy!
his cuts are not clean
he uses multiple cuts when youre supposed to do one
he becomes too reliant on his blade
when it is taken from him he acts as if he is weak
he panics
he is messy
fleet harbor
So I take his inability to cut things with a sword as indicative of how he failed to understand what to actually do
Like as Meti says, her first big win was with her sword broken and her thumbs shoved into a titan's brain
Swords are a metaphor
(And as Allison points out, maybe kind of a shitty metaphor?)
candid compass
yes, he doesn't understand that to properly cut you have to become a blade yourself
hence why he panics when he loses his sword
fleet harbor
Right
frank light
it is absolutely a vibe of Style
fleet harbor
He's an exceptionally poor swordsman because he thinks swords are important, I guess is Maya's take?
But yes I agree, Style
frank light
to have a method that does...work!
fleet harbor
Maybe also Eide
frank light
objectively speaking it does work
but also it isnt...the field
if that makes sense
its like being self taught and learning a lot of bad habits
fleet harbor
It's sort of dishonest about what it wants to accomplish
frank light
becuase your methods work but also theyre not using the same language the field is
style and eide are my take yeah
as his two arcs
troubled and gatecrasher
hes got a technique, hes got a very specific skillset
and he can make it work
candid compass
style and eide are my take yeah
which would make him a Mimic ironically 😛
frank light
exactly
fleet harbor
I mean that fits
He's mimicking something
Rather than just being himself
It's weird because you're right Incubus absolutely does not need a sword but has convinced himself that he does
Whereas the actual masters swordspeople are dropkicking people and using the shittiest swords on earth and such
frank light
lol
yeah thats fair
i genuinely love incubus as a character
i think hes great
hes my favorite trash goblin
fleet harbor
Imagine, Karen loving a mimic-coded character :P
frank light
EXPLODE
candid compass
Karen hitting you with the 
also thinking about splats for the Demiurges, I think you could model a lot of them as Strategists honestly
candid compass
Gog is a Warmain
candid compass
hold on jadis has Ruleslord
Jadis especially I felt should have Wyrd
and she's Dying of Fate or Predestination or something like that
she saw the truth of the world, and it ruined her
feels like a Glitch
fleet harbor
Yeah Jadis is the Sorriest Saddest Wettest Kitten
That means Strategist :D
Her Eide allows her to present as wise and all knowing and essentially together
But uh
She isn't
(Well, she is all-knowing)
(But like turning into a snake, it doesn't help)
frank light
she is a wet kitten but honestly?
candid compass
she has that vibe of super high Wyrd, where you sort of transcend your suffering to an extent
frank light
i dont think shes...dying of it
shes already dead of it
and that gives me Rules vibes
fleet harbor
I think she would love to say she's already dead of it
candid compass
I think Jadis is suffering yeah
frank light
thats fair but
candid compass
she just also knows it doesn't matter
frank light
i dont think there...is much agency left ?
like with wyrd youre dying but you have agency
shes...something else is going on
fleet harbor
The thing is, she's not being puppeted
frank light
right
fleet harbor
Everything she's going to do because she knows everything, including what she's going to do, is something that she's doing
frank light
but also she isnt...like theres nothing to avoid?
shes not being driven from the world or allergic to any particular part of it.
theres something gone from her and something cursed with her but
i dont think its wyrd
something is deeply broken with her and her perspective which could also lean into
a number of other things
if you were to assign splats
honestly maybe deep imperator
deepness and lore perhaps
or even adept
fleet harbor
I guess my view is like ... compare Doctor Manhattan, who has an identical all-knowing atemporal self power set
It does take a moment of genuine uncertainty for him to change
But even before that, he's not in anguish because his perspective on the whole thing is different
frank light
No I know
Unlike doctor Manhattan she also has full awareness outside of her perspective
She has true omniscience and an awareness of every single atom in the entirety of everything
I just don’t think Wyrd is a good fit for it.
frank light
I dunno! I don’t know if her anguish is well represented by what Wyrd even has.
Maybe she does have something silver though
Maybe she has fallen
fleet harbor
In some ways none of the standard miraculous types fit her because her worldview is just "all is despair"
frank light
Horrible omniscience feels strong for both a horrible blasphemy and a sealed powerset
fleet harbor
But that's strategist-ish
frank light
Philosophically could be strategist esque but now having said it out loud fallen as a powerset makes sense
With her omnisicience being the blasphemy inside her(if you destroy her she unleashes the shape for all to witness or something idk) and working really well as a sealed power “she can just react to anything”
And her entire conversation with Allison in the temple lines up well with holy
Including the weird scene transitions and stuff
And she would use music of the spheres absolutely
frank light
Not philosophically yeah
fleet harbor
... actually
frank light
Just…powerset wise
fleet harbor
Consider how she keeps trying to persuade people to give up and just sort of suck
Even knowing she will fail
Shit I think Fallen fits
frank light
Mhm mhm
fleet harbor
She's a horrible woman trying to make everyone around her just as horrible as she is, that is perfect
You're right
candid compass
it's her, the kbity
candid compass
frank light
yea thats her
fleet harbor
https://x.com/pixelcoffea/status/1855351167766905104
Yes this is good
frank light
nodnod
restive ridge
https://x.com/pixelcoffea/status/1855351167766905104
Wet beast...
Unmake using thermonuclear annihilation
narrow tartan
Death from Puss and Boots as the Headmaster
vivid wraith
........yeah
that is very close to his vibes i think
but for an alternate fursona, consider
obsidian dagger
I mean, the Headmaster... might be... Death? Or a Death?
vivid wraith
In Night-Bird's Feather, he gets called "He the Lord of Death's Dominion He" quite frequently
He's some kind of Death yeah
obsidian dagger
ironically, earlier today I was thinking about a very different Death figure and how he'd be represented in Chuubo's:
vivid wraith
hehehehe
obsidian dagger
I personally think that both him and Death the Kid have Angel arcs, but he has mostly A Keeper of Gardens with a little Creature of the Light, and Kid has mostly Creature of the Light but picks up a little Gatekeeper later on?
The real question is what arcs ||Kishin Asura|| has, and ||almost certainly Allegory, maybe Child of the Ash? He does a kaiju-esque thing at one point but I can't remember if that's anime exclusive.||
Oh, Kid also probably has some Chosen One. He has flight, he has energy blasts, he has a special aura.
I don't think most meisters have their weapons as Treasures since they don't have enough separate ones, but Death probably has his Death Scythes as treasures. That could be Sentimental stuff, but I don't think it is.
narrow tartan
Hmm. Not actually a good fit but sort of interesting to think about.
https://aislingiora.tumblr.com/post/694811144288960512/outlaw-my-second-fan-arc-for-chuubos-marvelous
obsidian dagger
There is a fanfiction with a character whose power is to never be in a no-win situation. She adaptively gains new abilities in a way which is very Reality Syndrome, but the key caveat is that she gains such abilities such that she always has a chance of defeating whatever threat she faces. She doesn't get to choose what she gets, and it's not guaranteed that she'll win, just that she'll be able to win.
Is that just Reality Syndrome? Probably, due to its mutability, but it feels like it could be something else. Some sort of Chthonic "I am never in an unwinnable situation" effect.
Could be Primordial or Wounded Angel, actually... but I don't think so.
magic mason
I mean, the Headmaster... might be... Death? Or *a* Death?
My personal theory is that the Headmaster is Harumaph, first of the riders
The man who gifted Cneph death
Insert that one nobilis tumble post of “do you think Harumaph and Cneph ever explored each others bodies?”
narrow tartan
Is that just Reality Syndrome? Probably, due to its mutability, but it feels li...
How does she otherwise interact sith the world?
frank light
The headmaster has been explicitly referred to as one of the first riders
is he Harumaph?
…maybe? It’s implied as such. So like, could be. But also not actually guaranteed
My take on him is that he’s death as in the way the excrucians represent Death
Because death has its own grim reapers in creation, it’s own lords of it.
But excrucians represent the end of all. And that’s the kind of death the headmaster is to me
restive ridge
Headmaster is actually a Snake who decided to run an Excrucian high school because it would be funny
narrow tartan
Thats it writes about alternative setting about middle schoolers
magic mason
Being an Excrucian is basically like going to college and coming back Woke
fleet harbor
100% sort of
patent tiger
Here comes the woke mob riding on pale horses and wielding blades that must never be wielded 🙄
fleet harbor
It’s thematically relevant that you leave Town, go to a place called The Outside, and learn truths and value systems inimical to the life you once led
Metaphor shaped like itself
frank light
“They must shed their mortality by having to tear down everything of their former life”
“Which is kinda just like defending your thesis”
fleet harbor
The Bleak Academy is a liberal arts school
frank light
That’s the college of emptiness and dream-
magic mason
I had a really funny idea a while ago
Orange fortitude pc becomes the hypothetical House Of The Sun student/excrucian AU
frank light
Nah but seriously here’s like 4 or 5 big courses and 1 of them is a full practical course on warfare
fleet harbor
Or at the very least the Bleak Academy is a place that challenges your assumptions and forces you to adopt a more nuanced position
magic mason
I had a really funny idea a while ago
Orange fortitude pc becomes the hypothet...
The Orange fortitude pc is really weird
frank light
I love that the war college does technically have a Major that doesn’t require you to have perverse dreams for creation
It’s great
What a place
magic mason
Me, the Wild magister at Excrucian college
fleet harbor
In some ways Chuubo’s embraces a notion Nobilis always had — that the grand conflicts and wars for the state of reality are indistinguishable from everyday life
Something we are pretty much looking at right now in our mimic game >_>
magic mason
Me, the Wild magister at Excrucian college
Read this like going to gay school or whatever
frank light
Something I do find fun about the bleak academy
Is that the journey there, through the layers of the outside, broken as they are, is a perverse and terrible place
To live in those deep layers of the outside is cruel
It is a place of alien judgement and confusion
…but
At the bleak academy specifically.
The deepest layer besides the fat and sunless land
…here there is something worthwhile
Anyway yeah Nobilis shit is weird
I’m excited to play bleak catgirl
patent tiger
As far as I'm concerned, all Excrucians are-
magic mason
Finish that sentence
patent tiger
Don't tell me what to do
magic mason
stares at you
magic mason
looks behind me
there is a tail
No
restive ridge
Bleak academy is a college not a high school
Nuh uh
fleet harbor
I’m an otter
patent tiger
lol get got
frank light
I’m an otter
Holy shit an otter
frank light
Hahahhaha
That’s fair
That’s fair
Entropy the second also has blood on his hands
But is that a metaphor for the legacy of his father?
Or something else entirely
frank light
This is true!
…which he may or may not even remember
In glassmakers dragon the story he tells about it is genuinely what he remembers
His blood is transformative as well.
Sometimes he says the blood isn’t his, but yours
As a gift given
fleet harbor
Another metaphor shaped like itself
frank light
True
fleet harbor
The blood on the hands of others can change you and perhaps even free you
Entirely literally the case here
frank light
Yeah
“Wouldn’t it be fucked up of entropy the second had transformative magic blood dripping from his hands all the time”
fleet harbor
No hidden meanings here
frank light
Fun fact instead of blood Attaris the second has floating swords
fleet harbor
It is exactly what it looks like, although it may not look like what you think it does
frank light
It’s very funny that keeper of gardens/gardener gives you that
Not specifically the blood but some transformative toxin or material you can use and give people
Something that makes you a bit toxic
Something that, if you don’t want to accidentally transform everyone around you, you have to be careful with
Which tells very fun stories with the fact that rules and heaven have gardener
fleet harbor
Fable of the Swan is also entirely literal
Part of why I love it so
“If you take someone’s heart you can turn them into something else, whether or not that’s good for them”
restive ridge
I love ripping people's hearts by using the emotions between us so I can control them metaphorically
fleet harbor
Is just a literal statement in Fable
narrow tartan
You know. Attaris 2 is I think much more interesting metaphysically than Entropy 2
Or. At least has more straightforward metaphysical stuff
Just. Attaris 2 siggests that the third age has somehow continued
Darksouls on the world ash somehow still in the second age
fleet harbor
Well, we know that the worlds of the Ash are still around, right?
Just … a bit different
frank light
The implication is that they’ve been swallowed up by the outside
But that might not meaningfully change much about the daily life of those living there
There’s…something weird about it
frank light
Just. Attaris 2 siggests that the third age has somehow continued
Not necessarily!
She wouldn’t have to keep her mother’s estates
narrow tartan
True
fleet harbor
But that might not meaningfully change much about the daily life of those living...
This is why Robin would be so in favor of Chuubo’s probably >_>
magic mason
Just. Attaris 2 siggests that the third age has somehow continued
The imperators of the second age and the imperator of the first age are probably still around
(The second age is always a world specific imperator)
So earth has a second age true god
Dionyl would have a second age lord of Domination
Etc
The imperator of the first age is a fallen, atm, in case you were curious
vivid wraith
people of jennagames, an important research activity is underway
https://malymin.dreamwidth.org/10423.html
(imposter vocaloid excrucian poll)
frank light
What
vivid wraith
Which type of excrucian is the tsundere fake vocaloid
fleet harbor
Mimic, Warmain, Strategist
vivid wraith
see that's my take too but i didn't think i'd get agreement so easily
obsidian dagger
I'd probably say the same? I don't know.
fleet harbor
A successful fake (mimic), a deranged stalker (warmain), and god's soggiest unhappiest kitten (strategist)
obsidian dagger
Thinking about the Cube Escape series as a good example of a... Black arc, I think? Maybe Green? Maybe not.
magic mason
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSFhd-CGIWU
Average guy in a Nobilis microfiction
restive ridge
Which type of excrucian is the tsundere fake vocaloid
Warmain duh
The volcaloid being the first Temper and the other forms(the pear etc) being those that just passed the Test
vivid wraith
The volcaloid being the first Temper and the other forms(the pear etc) being tho...
wait which fear
is that a Neru thing or a Warmain thing i forgot about
vivid wraith
OH okay
narrow tartan
Huh. Giving vharacters weird powers which you dont fully understand
Like. A destruction that is actually really hard yo use for actually destroying things. But i can be used for superspeed
Though maybe the weirder effects would ne represented by other miracles
magic mason
Like. A destruction that is actually really hard yo use for actually destroying ...
I feel like a lot of the time, having clearly defined parameters for your power is important because that is what lets you bullshit through problems in these games
restive ridge
Frantic Blue-ass movie
restive ridge
magic mason
What if Cneph had that Aurelion Sol thing going on where he is a toxic asshole
restive ridge
That'd go hard
I always imagine him as very pathetic which mixed well with toxic asshole
magic mason
I love how fucking toxic Aurelion Sol is as a demiurge
Mortals Strive To Construct Their Own Adorably Inadequate Marvelssss.
BUT TRUE POWER IS ONLY FOUND IN THE COSMOS.
You Thought You Could Wield it?
That You Can Tame Me?
But How Do You Tame Greatness.
OH THAT'S RIGHT YOU CAN'T
With Every Crack Your Hold Weakens
Every Fracture Brings A Galaxy of STRENGTH And While I Long To Return To My Stars. First I Shall Be Unleashed.
What's The Matter Targon? Losing your Grip?
Like look at this monologue
magic mason
I love the phrase “while I long to return to My Stars”
restive ridge
Frat bro energy lmao
Cneph is a gymbro that shoves Harumaph the nerd in lockers
magic mason
The Wall Of Flesh is a True God and The Guide is its wanderer shadow
restive ridge
Real shit
fleet harbor
gk try not to create a Nobilis/Glitch character who has deeply contradictory feelings about both the Not and Creation and will probably fall into seeking some sort of synthesis challenge: difficulty impossible
candid compass
gk try not to create a Nobilis/Glitch character who has deeply contradictory fee...
So real
My Strategist is currently in a very similar predicament
Surely attempting to create a better form of synthesis is not just the Hubris Cneph had
wheat cobalt
"surely, the hubris of the creator of all was merely a skill issue"
patent tiger
I would simply make a world that is not wrong
candid compass
He's not attempting to make a whole new world at least
Not yet anyway 😛
restive ridge
He should get more hubristic then
candid compass
Look the world is already broken
And if the Imperators get to clumsily muck about, why shouldn't he try too
magic mason
Thief of Sorrow deceiver who starts dystopian YA posting
restive ridge
The Hopepunk menace
frank light
Shimmering feathers that flicker with not-light
narrow tartan
What about the bird with the eyes?
obsidian dagger
Two nights ago I had an epiphany so strong that my internet broke to stop me from posting it, and now I don't fully remember it, but just... Actuals and Issues are very closely linked.
Think about how you get Issues in Chuubo's: you take an "inappropriate" XP action. Like, if you take a Shared Action with nobody to share it with, you pick up a point of Isolation. It's an action which implies the presence of a person, and goes wrong without one. Just like how, if you make a wish which implies a person but no such person exists, you'll probably create an Actual to fill in that gap.
I'm not sure if Issues are Actuals, more or less, or if they're the "immune response" that stops Actuals from forming by providing a partial context, but either way they're intimately tied.
frank light
my assumption is that issues are just
a way to represent you having an issue, rather than necessarily an explicit in universe force.
for many characters, issues represent specific things that would be...strange to conceptualize as merely an immune response from the world. plus theyre not all necessarily formed from paradoxes
though i will say
you might be onto something in the way they can give you mp
because theyre a source of mp but in
really weird ways
(characters who are creatures of delirium will often develop Complexes from caring way too much or trying way too hard)
(Gatekeepers have a tendency to trust in forces that shouldnt be trusted)
(Accursed tend to just...be sickly. like all the time, oof)
narrow tartan
Its one of those things that is ambiguous
obsidian dagger
Also of note: the Illusion issue can, uniquely, defeat you, which makes me think it's at least similar to a Wound in some way?
And Wounds are chthonic.
frank light
thats true
though wounds are also in a weird layer
its your capability of resisting stuff
illusion can defeat you and wound you though yeah
obsidian dagger
Wounds are a weird layer, but they're explicitly chthonic effects. Anything which interacts directly with the Wound system is chthonic, and Actuals enact their powers by wounding the world.
In Froofs, there are things which can give Issue points, or, equivalently, in one case they can cause a break from reality which is what a Wound to the world is (they can't just make it be 100% fake, just like how there isn't a Wound option for "whatever that thing was didn't negatively affect me at all", but they can make it Unreal or at least dubiously real).
Hypothesis: most powers which care about Issues in some way will be Chthonic. (Most of the ones I can think of are Bonds, which... I don't know if they're Chthonic? Afflictions are, though.)
There are a whole bunch of ones which do things while you have 1+ levels of an Affliction and i can't remember what they are. Mostly, they're ways to warp your Affliction-taking, like Vice with Divine Mandate?
Oblivious on Gatekeeper is an Affliction, which is Chthonic.
Divine Warrent is "Special". But it was marked as such at a time after Chthonic actions existed, so if it secretly is Chthonic, Jenna Moran at least doesn't know it 😜
The Ace's Tragic Flaw... is an Affliction. Which is Chthonic.
What are some other powers that interact with Issues?
That when an Actual imposes what it wants to do on reality, there comes a point where the world gives up on saying, “You can’t do that because of some limit in your power,” because what the heck does the rest of the world know about the internals of an Actual’s powers?
Instead, it says, “… fine, I won’t fight that, I need my health levels …”
Or, it says: “I can’t accept that. I’m taking a wound.”
That’s just like a PC taking a wound, in the end. It’s a way that the effect can just fail when it’s not what the targeted player wants. (In this case, the targeted player appears to be “the HG.”) But like a wound, that failure isn’t “nothing happens” or “I guess you just weren’t strong enough.” The latest Nobilis didn’t go into that much detail here, but Chuubo’s spelled out what you can expect from a wound in a fair bit of detail:
If someone takes a wound to protect against something you do, you can expect that it took, but that they restricted how much of the target it affected; or that they adjusted the effect until it was something they could live with; or that they resisted so violently that that hurt them; or that the wounding effect went through, but got twisted, or wound up with an off switch, or was reinterpreted into the target’s personal genre or that of normal reality.
Something like that.
If someone shoots your PC, and you take a wound, in short, there isn’t an option for “they didn’t shoot me” or “it just wasn’t a good shot”—and that is one reason to say that the Actual ability to wound the world is genuinely a power rather than a weird way of invoking HG fiat.
The other reason, of course, is that when something gets wounded, it loses a Health Level, and depending on the circumstances that can put it on the road to defeat.
That’s something that can happen to reality, too. A Surface Wound isn’t likely to do it, that’s just a minor break from reality… but a Serious Wound is a serious danger to any location that isn’t meaningful enough to have conceptual Divine Health Levels, and a Deadly Wound puts anywhere or practically anything one step closer to falling under the Actual’s sway, or slipping into a nearby Region, or falling into the Outside.
Breaks from reality are Surface Wounds on the world.
frank light
i mean
inherently yeah, any power that would directly touch issues would probably be cthonic
obsidian dagger
That's my argument, since issues aren't earmarked as one of the specific Chthonic Things explicitly, and I'm arguing that they should be.
frank light
i just
tend to disagree with assertions that link too many game mechanics directly to the metaphysics
Actuals often Wound the World when they do shit, and Actuals do explicitly exist on a deep layer of reality
but also you run into some weirdness when linking Actuals to stuff like Issues or quests.
Or Actuals to any cthonic miracle used outside the world where, fundamentally, there arent any Actuals or...anything
oh
well thats weird, is the cthonic things list exhaustive?
obsidian dagger
It is not.
frank light
or just a general example of "things cthonic actions interact with"-ah yeah
frank light
then yeah i fully agree that when it comes to Issues, any ability that directly touches or does stuff to Issues or With Issues would have to be cthonic
obsidian dagger
There's a list of things which can only be done by Chthonic Actions, but while those are sufficient to declare sonething chthonic, they aren't necessary to doing so.
It's also of note that directly manipulating Bonds is not necessarily Chthonic.
frank light
thats...strange
though now that i look at it
some of the miracles in glitch, Rites, which are the equivalent of cthonic actions,
some miracles that make bonds arent rites
Masking is a Rite but it also can make geasa
funky!
wait
hmmm
no yeah
Infusion is a miracle while something like Masking is a Rite
funky!
obsidian dagger
...also "chthonic" is a fun word.
obsidian dagger
is the property of being chthonic "chthonicness" or "chthonicity"? Or something else? Chthony?
vivid wraith
No real word for it but "chthonicity" sounds fun
fleet harbor
Upgrading Laika the Space Dog to miraculous anchor, ama
vivid wraith
What powers does this dog have now
fleet harbor
Miraculous Ghost Dog Powers
If statted up in Chuubo’s she would have Superior Ghost, Superior Dog, and Star Quality
vivid wraith
yesssss
fleet harbor
In Nobilis she would have Superior Ghost 4, Superior Dog 4, and three pstates at 5 (which is 25 character points): “the betrayal of Laika,” “Laika’s favorite memories,” and “the ghostly apparition of Laika”
We contemplated Ace but Laika’s a dog, she can’t fly or do taxes
Well I mean she can fly
But that’s a ghost thing
narrow tartan
Dogs can shoot lasers.
Huh. In theory their might be an estate of "things generally human shaped"
Specifically. Looking at an RPG.net thread about a children's book Jenna wrote (that might also be an rpg adventure)
Or maybe not
obsidian dagger
Missingno is unironically a good example of an Actual. A corruptive influence derived from gazing upon nothing and interpreting it as something.
narrow tartan
Missingno is perhaps an actual bound as an arcana. With pokemon like 'M are the unstable form
obsidian dagger
Probably; I don't know all the glitch pokemon.
narrow tartan
Mostly I only know those two? Just that Missingno is relatively benign?
obsidian dagger
One of them is apparently named this
and ♀ . is apparently listed as being 80 feet tall, looks like this garbled column of text, and it appearing will turn off the game audio before replacing it with its own glitchy noises which play endlessly. And a 80-foot column of garbled red writing which distorts sound is just... that's just an Actual baby!
vivid wraith
and `♀ .` is apparently listed as being 80 feet tall, looks like this garbled co...
smh female beauty standards are so unrealistic
obsidian dagger
good song, CW for drugs/implications of drugs in the video but. This feels extremely Green, I think? Maybe Black but I think Green. Could be Blue, admittedly. I'm curious what people's takes on it are, and also it's just... a good song and video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y0_CVX1hok
magic mason
magic mason
good song, **CW for drugs/implications of drugs in the video** but. This feels ...
I agree on green
vivid wraith
bunch of good green vibes from them huh
restive ridge
Real
narrow tartan
too frizzled to shRe the thing. Might later
magic mason
Destruction that removes the time it takes to do something
Wailing lets it speed up actions that someone else wasn’t necessarily planning to do
Greater destruction lets it hit organizations, government bodies, etc and speed up things like bureaucracy
fleet harbor
Credit to @magic mason for this one: dying of love triangles
frank light
Infection 7
The love triangle is forged into a blade
narrow tartan
I like the idea of a Strategist using Greater Agony Rite (or is it regular Agony Rite?) to try out different versions of their bane. I'm pretty certain that is not how they are actually supposed to use it but still
candid compass
you can shift manifestations of your Infection with regular Agony already
narrow tartan
nods It always seemed like it should be a Greater Agony thing to me
candid compass
it's because it's ultimately mostly cosmetic
you retain control over how you want your infection to look, but it's still killing you either way
magic mason
I like the idea of a Strategist using Greater Agony Rite (or is it regular Agony...
Agony changes what the Bane is
Greater Agony summons the bane
basically
frank light
Ultimately changing your bane isn’t all that helpful
Since it specifies
That the old manifestation on still sticks around for a bit
It’s a great way for players to change how their characters express their suffering in the world
And it would be probably annoying if there was an associated cost for something that ultimately didn’t actually help you, was probably unconscious on the strategist’s part, and still…keeps hurting you
While greater agony at least let’s you summon forth that suffering and with a Steel action kinda control it
magic mason
the most important way it triggers automatically is to Get Around something that would deal with your bane
normal agony I mean
its how your bane ressolves
"I am sick"
"This is the panecea that cures bacterial infection"
The Bane: I was actually a fungus the whole time
frank light
It’s also just fun for changing your vibes if your vibes change
Like, the key example was
Guy dying of fire used to just be chased by infernos
But now his emotions turn into fire and if he loses control he just burns
You can change what it means for you at any time it’s great
restive ridge
Changing the manifestation is very much cosmetic, w/ Greater Agony even having a specific "yeah you cant use this the same chapter you changed the manifestation, no cheesing sorry". However this is Nobilis, changing how something manifests in fiction is a big deal
restive ridge
excrucians
vivid wraith
yeah
fleet harbor
My Power of Vacuum has "I am become evil, the destroyer of good" as a bond
fleet harbor
Mostly it's because Robin learned about Ontological Good and is mad about it
They find it disgusting
patent tiger
(Note: Ontological Good is a direct power of one of the other PCs as of writing)
vivid wraith
amazing
candid compass
Mostly it's because Robin learned about Ontological Good and is mad about it
yeah that's fair
patent tiger
((Followup note: by "one of the other PCs" I mean me))
fleet harbor
The Swan showed up
It made things Good
Robin does not like this
Then Harmony got a treasure gift drawing on the Swan
fleet harbor
The pstates of Laika ...
... was random and thoughtless.
... valued the loved over the unloved.
... valued wisdom over life.
... is a symbol of human cruelty.
... was not forgotten.
... inspired others to care more.
... was sad.```
```Laika's favorite memories ...
... are of love and kindness.
... are of involvement.
... are of paying attention.
... are exciting, but never scary.
... are of a brighter, better world.
... envision the world as one big playground.```
```Laika's ghostly apparition ...
... cannot be harmed or slain.
... flies, walks through walls, and causes objects to move without anyone touching them.
... can bark or howl to commune with the spirits of death and void.
... strikes fear into the hearts of her foes.
... can be undetectable if she wishes.
... is still a good dog.```the last one almost seems like a pSelf.
fleet harbor
Possibly? These are meant for a 3e architecture
magic mason
narrow tartan
She has so far displaced Wine as high culture drink of choice and replaced it with Absinthe
restive ridge
Twitter
vivid wraith
true!!!!
jovial cipher
https://x.com/ctrlcreep/status/1856197707120992572?s=19
shiny chest
colour on ankles
we know this because scientists learned they had to be careful attaching ankle bands to some species because it made them much more successful mates in the wild
obsidian dagger
https://www.drabblecast.org/2019/09/03/drabblecast-415-the-best-scarlet-ceremony-ever/ TW for human sacrifice and menstruation and... I feel like this needs other TWs but I have no idea what? Those are the big ones. But for some reason, this seems... roughly relevant. The first paragraph feels almost Chuubo's, though the rest of it mostly doesn't (see aforementioned TWs).
They talk about Lovecraft but I don't get anything resembling Lovecraft vibes from this, really.
narrow tartan
we know this because scientists learned they had to be careful attaching ankle b...
I remember hearing about scientists deciding to do an experiment where they made a male bird super attractive. And then seeing how many kids he had?
Hmm. The urge to try and pin things down into splats.
candid compass
vivid wraith
copper moment (which echoes through eternity)
restive ridge
Soop true
obsidian dagger
...I saw, but did not read, a fic which statted up various Sonic characters as Strategists, and just thought I'd share that fact.
obsidian dagger
https://archiveofourown.org/works/34796104 you now know as much as I do
...besides glitch pokemon, what are some good examples of Actuals in media? Pattern Screamers from the SCP Foundation are Actuals I think, but anything else?
vivid wraith
they're kinda zombie apocalypse-coded, right?
obsidian dagger
Kind of, yeah, but they don't have to be, They're more like... inappropriate proturbations of reality. Glitch pokemon are a great example because they involve sort of "hallucinating" an entity? Taking something which isn't actually meant to be a pokemon, and treating it as a pokemon so that it kind of acts like one.
They're virus-coded in general, honestly. Which frequently overlaps with zombie apocalypses, but... a virus's primary means of interacting with the world around it is to just turn that world into more of itself, ad infinitum, until either it ceases to exist or its world ceases around it. That's how Actuals usually work, although they can be less awful than that.
They can, as the Best Friend demonstrates, occasionally not be awful at all... but there's no real indication of why Seizhi isn't a hungry tumor in the flesh of reality. I'm glad that they aren't, don't get me wrong, but it's just one of those things where everyone's quietly glad Chuubo's is a nicer place than Nobilis.
frank light
Its weird yeah.
We know it’s usually not…common
Maybe it’s just cus of the nature of the wish that pulled seizhi up
Since it was less a paradox and more just a creation from nothing
Miracles and wishes are great at breaking thermodynamics. They’re just bad with paradoxes
magic mason
...besides glitch pokemon, what are some good examples of Actuals in media? Pat...
I often use The Color Out Of Space as an Actual
narrow tartan
I remember seeing something by jenna that said making Actuals into people was surprisingly easy for Imperators but they don't really see the point? Or something?
Like putting hats on rocks
frank light
That would be wild
I mean I guess I could see it being possible with an imperators power but easy doesn’t feel right
Otherwise the whole “it’s awful that we have to force them back down to the deeps but we have no other choice” loses its uh…entire narrative bite
narrow tartan
I mean is it awful?
magic mason
Another big actual touchstone for me is like….
Abyss Monsters in Mage The Awakening
Like the Annukai
Actual who is a Stillborn world feels like a strong angle
frank light
This loses a lot of narrative bite if there is an easy solution
Like I don’t imagine it’s impossible for the power of a law being or other really really powerful miracles to possible provide a solution.
That’s the kind of thing Nobilis is for, it’s a game where you do the impossible
But “easy” feels like a disservice to Actuals as a concept
magic mason
So yeah
The color out of space
Annukai from Mage the awakening
And thematically but not mechanically a lot of creations of mad science or wizardry
frank light
They do tend to be results of hubris yeah
magic mason
Like a miraclous Frankensteins monster would work as an Actual
fleet harbor
They can, as the Best Friend demonstrates, occasionally not be awful at all... b...
I think part of the thing is that Chuubo's is basically a softer world, a world in which everyone can grow and get along
But conventional Actuals are not like that
IIRC Jenna has also commented that Seizhi is an actual because like ... what else was the Wish-Granting Engine going to make the kid out of, sand? But that wish really wasn't the kind of wish that creates an actual in the normal sense
There was no hubris, no attempt to circumvent the way the world works
Kid asked for a Best Friend and he got one
vivid wraith
We should Ennoble Seizhi I think
magic mason
Joktan I think
frank light
There was no hubris, no attempt to circumvent the way the world works
yeah it felt more like a "creation from nothing" sort of divine power than a hubristic paradox or a too quick creation of a miraculous being
it might only be a bit of the second one but in the end it was only a wish for a best friend
and by god that wishing engine did its best to make one!
...from...whatever parts were there
fleet harbor
And to some degree the tone of Chuubo's demands such an honest and pure-hearted wish do something very unusual
Almost explicitly
frank light
true
that is the nature of it
though honestly
were someone to make a huge and pure hearted wish effect of some kind
or even do a big ol quest miracle about it
in say, glitch or nobilis, i would be willing as a gm to allow it
because that feels like...whats in the cards
if a strategist does a greater inchoation at the end of a quest to manifest a best friend from their sphere...
or a deceiver uses Sealed for some similar effect (aka what chuubo did except hes a serpent)
or a Power did that with like...idk Domain or something
yeah
i could see it happening
its in the cards but like
as one of those things where the player spent a lot of time on it and of course that kind of time and effort and wishing nature breaks the rules a bit.
its not hubris after all!
(side note inchoation to make a best friend is really funny to me)
fleet harbor
Yeah
I mean one of the fun things about hubris is that like ... a lot of it is specifically "things that would remove meaningful conflict from the game"
frank light
yeah
fleet harbor
But as long as you're not trying to suddenly change the world's dharma, you're kinda fine!
frank light
making a miraculous being becomes hubris if its like...simple, or easy.
when something takes meaningful effort and time, it kinda...stops becoming hubris. or at least, its hubristic nature becomes less in play
if youre doing a big thing about it. if youre obeying at least some kind of narrative law of effort -> reward, then it probably wont make an actual.
maybe what you get isnt exactly what you bargained for but thats just standard
its what Projects are for
fleet harbor
Today in Nobilis: surgically removing ghosts from a warmain
narrow tartan
Huh. I was thinking that would be the Evil World. Honestly, my impression of the Headmaster is much more positive than yhat of Entropy 1
obsidian dagger
The Headmaster's degree of awfulness is a canon flexpoint. To the point that one of the Six Sins (I forget which off the top of my head) wants to distill the evil of the Evil World down into a paralytic toxin and use it to paralyze and implant nascent worlds in the Headmaster, and it's variable whether this is reprehensible or just a matter of poor taste.
narrow tartan
PfP now named Hemito
obsidian dagger
So I was thinking about "Ananda visits Town to check up on his old friend Lord Entropy I" again, and what if some of the other students risked seeing him? And I think I have an actually interesting answer to a way in which The Incomparable Dulcinea de Montreal could survive: infusing her eyes with nightmares so that they beheld the flaws in all things. Thus, either she'd see some imperfections in Ananda's beauty, or she just wouldn't be able to see him.
...is that why Ananda does bad things to people who see him?
...actually, "eyes that behold only flaws and ugliness" would be a pretty neat Empowered Wound totally separately of any context.
fleet harbor
Puns as a mimic estate
... have unexpected cultural significance.
... defy meaning or categorization.
... demonstrate the arbitrariness of existence.
... invite and contain paradoxes.
... are actually pretty funny.```Greater Enchantment of [invite and contain paradoxes] on any Estate and then starting up a Flower Rite
fleet harbor
Yep
narrow tartan
Hmm. I heavan a banana
Just. Heavily cultivated and fragile
Or. Maybe. Brightlords wish Earth was a banana
vivid wraith
new pseudo-excrucian
Brought into Creation via High Summoning, but wants out, but can't get out, so they're going to try to fight their way through. Coordinating with the Warhost is much harder, but they have some shared goals
restive ridge
Wildlord pilled if they were lucid. Thats a good premise
narrow tartan
I had an idea a little like that once. Made it somewhat more complicated than it needed to be.
Wood boring beetles
vivid wraith
lov world-borers
narrow tartan
Whenever one actually escapes jt leaves a new major entrance
obsidian dagger
insects in the fabric of reality are usually Actuals, but you could definitely accomplish similar-enough effects in a lot of ways.
narrow tartan
Metaphorical insects was the idea actually. Just. Their passage left a gap in the world
narrow tartan
Behold: an answer to the bleak
candid compass
putting this here
enjoy low effort meme 😛
frank light
Love this
magic mason
Nobilis but your imperator is Imprisoned in their fucking chancel
due to Crimes, and they probably were not actually allowed to make you
vivid wraith
have fun with those interpersonal imperial politics!!!
narrow tartan
There is a nobilis campaign on youtube. I only got past like the firT session.
The Imperator was an out of touch fallen angel. Who didn't know about rhe Excrucians and gave one a passport
fleet harbor
Nobilis but your imperator is Imprisoned in their fucking chancel
due to Crimes,...
This would be a way to due to mimic game
Like, they are a known mimic who has been locked up
magic mason
that is very valid, but I was thinking a non mimic imperator
Like one of those mad serpents that keeps trying to break into heaven
obsidian dagger
...Dale Vandermeer (from the Cube Escape/Rusty Lake series) is Called Away to the bottom of Rusty Lake. He even has a shadow monster which is his own corrupted soul. Also he might be a corrupted soul.
vivid wraith
Jenna interview w/Glitch playlist
https://offshelf.net/2022/04/27/glitchs-jenna-moran/
narrow tartan
Ooh
vivid wraith
hshehehehhehehhe
patent tiger
No it's hedge the fang
Hedge the bastard is someone else
(Both are Sonic OCs tho)
frank light
Hahahhahaha
narrow tartan
Hmm. Bleak Academy. An Excrucian's pet
reef perch
hedge the fucker
narrow tartan
Heh. HORUS Mechs as Mysteries
frank light
oh that has potential
narrow tartan
Originally thought of it as a gag but then I shared it right away 😛
fleet harbor
My big problem with Nobilis is that there are way too many estates I think would be fun to play a power for
Renewal
obsidian dagger
I had fun ideas involving Prairies, Pain, Skeletons, and/or Exoplanets. And, one, briefly, an emu Power of Bullheadedness.
fleet harbor
XD
narrow tartan
I'm not great at coming up with Nobles
fleet harbor
I have A Type
magic mason
The Cabinet Kith...
- Grow more powerful through attention.
- Tempt.
- Know exactly what you want.
- Cannot tolerate rejection, to the point of illness and death.
- Bend Reality To Their Will.
- Can fit anywhere.
The Closet Kith...
- Are exactly what you are afraid of.
- Watched you grow up.
- Burn away in the light.
- Are warded away by comfort and love.
- Possess unholy strength and speed.
- Are ever so hungry.
The Streetlight Kith...
- Are unidentifiable or otherwise obscured.
- Follow you everywhere you go.
- Curse those who glimpse them with awful luck.
- Eternally Weep Acid Tears.
- Can be banished forever by saying their name 3 times consecutively.
A little familia I came up with
Just for a super fucked up wild magister type.
The types of monsters children are scared of
tall jolt
"Spiders where they shouldn't be"
reef perch
i'm unsure as to how your statement connects to thought processes
acoustic dagger
nvm im probably mentally exploded
vivid wraith
the roofs do that to ya
magic mason
Deceivernames GPS…
- knows exactly what to do in order to reach a given destination.
- Is foolish to disobey.
- Protects Decievername from harm
- Knows all potential dangers.
- Empowers people to act upon seemingly impossible instructions.
vivid wraith
yeah that's right eliminate that "this is impossible" obstacle penalty
magic mason
Deceiver who gets gps style directions which they obey without question, but the instructions guide them through flower rites or battles against the nobilis
vivid wraith
I love this
restive ridge
That Deceiver's name? Fortuna
fleet harbor
Electronic voice: "Dodge roll"
magic mason
Exactly
candid compass
That Deceiver's name? Fortuna
so true
magic mason
The big rule with the GPS
Whatever it tells you to do is the correct move(presumably opposable through similar rules to prophecies), and whatever it tells you to do is possible
If the gps tells you to go at the speed of light, you obey, and if you complain about it or don’t press the peddle down to the point you go light speed
Big
Mistake
Presumably this would manifest as a miraculous removal of obstacle on actions the gps tells you to do
vivid wraith
kris get the banana
restive ridge
so true
[Fortuna was ennobled as the Noble of Prophecy]
[Fortuna used a Domain 5 Miracle Divination "How do I kill this Godling"]
[Fortuna spend 2 Wear walking while exhausted]
[True God Eden of Texting and Driving, Prophecy and Memories used Symbolic Miracle A Distan Mood of Grey Fog]
[True God Eden gained 2 MP from getting in trouble because of Geas: Mortals are beneath my attention]
[Doctor Mother spend 7 Wear to "convince this child to stab God in the ribs"]
[True God Eden received Divine Wound: I am in an eternal slumber(7)]
[Contessa used Aspect Miracle to fit in anywhere]
candid compass
Eden did really flub it
gloomy oasis
Deceivernames GPS…
- knows exactly what to do in order to reach a given destinat...
"You are on the fastest available route."
frank light
Hahahah
narrow tartan
Power of mist using a sacrifice on mist to turn it into snow
obsidian dagger
...this is one of the most tragic takes you could have on the subject, but imagine an Actual who has figured out that human beings are people with internal experiences, and it's genuinely friendly and wants to interact with them, but it still ends up infecting people around it. And it knows this! It's acutely aware that it doesn't have a non-destructive way to interact with people, and it best it can leave someone only partially infected, temporarily, before they're entirely converted.
But it's just... it's like being born with the Midas Touch, only harder to avoid accidentally using.
patent tiger
This was (kind of) the plot of one of the TTT games that ran here
Or, at least, one of the components of it
narrow tartan
Hmm. Its interesting that Commanding Aura is optional
restive ridge
This was (kind of) the plot of one of the TTT games that ran here
So trueee
Fuck we were so wrong when we called the Lamb a Gamer its an Actual
frank light
Froofs has been a delight
All the rats had a meeting to discuss a mystery they captured and also that hedge the fang is eating the moon
One rat bursts in 5 minutes late with the ‘mystery’ in tow and rambles her way into getting it onto the adventuring team to defeat hedge the fang.
To be clear the ‘mystery’ is my player character and she’s a catgirl monster (as I’ve posted most likely)
Another pc, our necromancer rogue one, seems to be absolutely delighted by her and keeps calling me Kitby
vivid wraith
it's SO PEAK
restive ridge
Amazing
narrow tartan
Heh. Catgirl. Karen you been eating the moon?
Oh. I had a thought. Does Peter Pan fit Theft?
fleet harbor
I'm not sure
I can sort of see it but
I guess I tend to think of Pan as equal parts god of war and god of childhood
narrow tartan
Just playing around with ideas
vivid wraith
Shadow-stealing 🤔
fleet harbor
This is a @frank light call out post
The bowl of salad, is honestly a bit confused about this, but you know...heres the thing.
You spend your life as a shoddy bowl of salad, and you know, you accept it some days. Its fine, you say, that im a shoddy bowl of salad. Its not like my lot in life was gonna change all that much. Im okay with this.
Even if you aren't okay with it, its like, what can you do, right? youre a shoddy bowl of salad past your prime, what could you even do.But then one day, some pale customer walks into your life, and with this...divine shining light, they tell you, they tell you this. THey tell you to change, to change into something thats more like who you really are.
Because you have that right.
And as a shoddy bowl of salad, nobody's ever told you that in your life! Maybe you do realize you have that right! Who's to say a shoddy bowl of salad can't change!
...Anyway thats how it became a swarm of butterflies and left your bowl.
fleet harbor
For being delightful :D
restive ridge
This is a <@442685313018757130> call out post
> The bowl of salad, is honestly a...
Lmaoo
Jenna Moran sidebar story core
frank light
indeed that was what i was going for
i felt like
that was what was necessary to invoke
for harmony changing somethings life
restive ridge
Good job its good writing
obsidian dagger
Peter Pan seems probably Creature of Fable/Theft. I could see it. Probably also simultaneously Allegory but he doesn't really have a weapon per se, and I could see an argument for Gatecrasher or Impressario but they don't seem perfect?
Having never actually read the original, does he have the Divine Mandate on his crueler pranks, where it's OK because he's just a kid who never grew up and learned better?
frank light
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXtujxT9rzA
malambruno music
frank light
magic mason
This is true
obsidian dagger
Fun fact: Typhon (or an extension thereof) is an alternate to Psalida Caesar, a teacher-shaped puppet on the end of a tentacle of Sa'a Lingurth.
Fun fact: Psalida Caesar has a series of of quests, involving "helpful students", and one of the things it's suggested they do to try to help is set him up on a date. (With the King of Cats' airship. To quote Moran, "Not all helpful students are helpful.") So that implies Typhon would be in a similar place.
they also suggest entering him in the Horizon's Largest Potato contest. (Or possibly Fortitude's, which would make more sense but it was for the Horizon campaign... I don't remember the details.)
restive ridge
Typhon is trying to ship his students together got it
obsidian dagger
Basically, they made a version of Typhon who was slightly more metaphysically palatable, and then made her a teacher at School, because... honestly, why wouldn't a Mystery teach there? There's already an ogre and an Excrucian.
frank light
Hahaha that’s truee
candid compass
Shipping human form Typhon and Natalia
restive ridge
A Strategist would try to use WBH on him and he'd somehow find a way to survive it
narrow tartan
If your favorite artist is going to die would it be wrong to feed them to an artistic warmain?
vivid wraith
p-probably
narrow tartan
nods
Hmm. Spirits picking up genders based on the local language.
Like. El mar is spanish for the sea. So in and around spain sea spirits tend to be masculine.
While around spain they are feminine because it corresponds to La Mer.
Sea is maybe not the best example
narrow tartan
@drifting zinc
drifting zinc
Hi
vivid wraith
another claimed for the jennaverse
drifting zinc
I have been explained and it seems interesting
vivid wraith
if you need an intro game i strongly suggest froofs
otherwise uhhh yeah absorb the esoteric ramblings here
drifting zinc
I shall absorb with great haste!
frank light
Welcome
frank light
Which game
drifting zinc
Nobilis, though admittedly it is still confusing
Is there an official core rulebook?
vivid wraith
however
there's a lot of uhhhh apocryphal material associated with Glitch and Chubbo's that gets discussed occasionally
so after this one, don't be afraid to ask more questions
candid compass
there's a lot of stuff that's kinda floating around on Jenna's blog and the discord
fleet harbor
I would say Nobilis 3e is the essential one, as the name suggests
Glitch then comes along and changes a lot of how you can frame things
drifting zinc
I see, so part of the fun is decrypting the depths of blogs for info
fleet harbor
As does Antithesis: Deceivers
candid compass
3e and Glitch are both pretty good entries into the metaphysics I think
fleet harbor
Nobilis is very much from a Noble's perspective
candid compass
just which one you start with might influence your view 😛
drifting zinc
Well alright, i will find a deity and begin my descent into madness
candid compass
if you have any questions or need clarification, feel free to ask here
frank light
Glitch ... sort of changes everything
Glitch was my introduction lmao
vivid wraith
who could have guessed this about Karen(Bleak Magister)
frank light
Resulting in me having so many
Metaphors in me and the taking those to Nobilis-SHUSH
vivid wraith
hehehe
candid compass
I am also fairly sympathetic towards Strategists
which is probably also in part from starting with Glitch 😛
but I think the Excrucians have something of a point, if perhaps not quite the solution
reef perch
i can also report that glitch was my entry point into the nobilisverse
vivid wraith
I am also fairly sympathetic towards Strategists
which is probably also in part ...
oh, good moment for this
https://theoptics.bearblog.dev/un-petit-defoulement/
drifting zinc
Is there like a version that is a better place to start and do you play similiar to pathfinder or other d20 systems
reef perch
dr. moran's games are largely divorced from d20 systems. most of them exclude dice entirely
magic mason
Its all ressource management baby
candid compass
if you actually want to know about the Nobilis setting specifically, Nobilis 3e and Glitch are both good starting points
I'm a bit biased towards Glitch, but Nobilis is also still good
Far Roofs is the most self contained, and a bit easier to digest since its lower scale
but can still give you a good idea of the general vibe of Jennagames
vivid wraith
I suggest Far Roofs but none of them have like, grid combat or dungeon crawls
frank light
Far roofs is amazing but yeah they seem pretty averse to things like…maps
Far roofs is the one where exploration might be the biggest factor but even it has a fascinating combat system that is mostly abstract
candid compass
oh, good moment for this
https://theoptics.bearblog.dev/un-petit-defoulement/
interesting post
I feel the impulse of Strategists is slightly different though
you aren't wrong, the world is wrong
and through its Wrongness, it has hurt and infected you
Strategists are the righteous anger against a world that should not be the way it is
fleet harbor
Glitch was my introduction lmao
The beauty of Glitch is that I didn't realize it was a Nobilisverse game until after I backed it
I'm sitting there reading the backer draft
And the terms come up and I go "OH"
frank light
WH LMAO
fleet harbor
It was actually a wonderful experience.
frank light
THATS SO FUCKING FUNNY
fleet harbor
I feel it allowed me to get comfortable with the Strategist experience in a more complete way.
frank light
Yeah
fleet harbor
So actually yeah, starting with Glitch might even be better!
frank light
Ru pitched it as such
“You play as the former antagonists of Nobilis but retired”
“And you’re from the void”
I didn’t know anything about Nobilis
I assumed it was like mage
Or something
So I think “wow that’s a cool concept I love former villain games they’re very rare”
And then
hoo boy
obsidian dagger
yeah, no, the antagonists of Nobilis want to destroy all of existence and are not totally unjustified in wanting that!
narrow tartan
I wonder if Lord Foul and Lord Entropy are brothers.
fleet harbor
And Glitch plays a big part in introducing the justification
frank light
It introduces the justification right from the getgo
And that informed pretty much all my Nobilis brainworms from there
fleet harbor
Before that moment there'd been a bit of black-and-grey morality
The Excrucians want to kill everyone but their opposition kinda sucks!
And Glitch transforms the whole canon not by sympathizing per se with the worst of them but by saying, "but wouldn't you be the same, in their position?"
frank light
The way excrucians have justifications for what they do has pretty much informed all of my Nobilis villain writing too
It’s so fucking good
patent tiger
I do appreciate a game that will actively sell its reader on destroying the world
obsidian dagger
Dangit I want to talk about a spoilery thing in Demon King Chronicle, but... I'm like 80% sure you get to use Cut the Soul in it. (It's a story about stories; I could imagine some degree of Awakening shenanigans but there's a lot of arguments for Red in here.)
fleet harbor
When you put together an Intention of 10 to make macaroni and cheese
vivid wraith
victory
obsidian dagger
what power do detectives have that causes murders to happen near them and/or to cause them to happen to go on vacation near where murders happen?
frank light
affliction
obsidian dagger
fair
frank light
affliction just works really well for a destiny like that
"Murders tend to happen around me"
which can either cause murders or merely attract preexisting murders to you
restive ridge
Ill always reccomend Nobilis 3e then Glitch as an introduction
I think its funnier if you read Glitch only after seeing how 3e describes Strats also personal anti-Ninnuan bias
drifting zinc
I will look into getting the Nobilis 3e book and give it a look
narrow tartan
Giant egg cracks and unfortunately becomes a Deceiver instead. "I can't be a girl! All this dysphoria and suffering is because the World is False!"
restive ridge
The De in deceiver stands for detransitioner
narrow tartan
Maybe. Or "he" might be the kind that has weird narrative about why every other t-girl is legitimate but "he" cant be a girl. And then throws them into the void or somthin
fleet harbor
Hey what happens if you tell a magister of the game that they just lost the game
frank light
“…wha-OHHHHHHH” and then they laugh and forget what you were saying
vivid wraith
works every time
restive ridge
Hey what happens if you tell a magister of the game that they just lost the game
They instantly die and you assume their position
fleet harbor
... I need to integrate that into the Imperial Human OC who's been brewing in my head somehow
Just somehow make that make sense
obsidian dagger
...I just remembered that canonically it doesn't snow much in Fortitude and this is the one element of canon I think I'm outright rejecting in any GMD campaigns I ever run if I ever actually run one because I am a northerner and my understandings of Pastoral stuff are inherently shaped around snow.
vivid wraith
real
obsidian dagger
I grew up with Little House on the Prairie. When I think about Shared Action, the first thing that springs to mind is shoveling snow with my father as a child. When I think about taking care of a house, I think about remembering to run warm water so the pipes don't freeze. And then Chuubo's comes along and tells me to do a Pastoral campaign in a setting where it doesn't snow at all some winters and just... how does that even work???
frank light
...I just remembered that canonically it doesn't snow much in Fortitude and this...
REAL
restive ridge
...I just remembered that canonically it doesn't snow much in Fortitude and this...
Cneph coded sorry
obsidian dagger
Like, I'm willing to keep it mostly snowless unless Chuubo decides he wants a white Christmas but... no snow?
frank light
Editing reality i suppose
narrow tartan
Hmm. Elves.
I think gamers would be relatively fine with humanity rising up and casting them down. At least more so than rulers.
Just, challenging the gods is super cool
frank light
Rulers are very much pro humans above others on the default
Though it’s not like elves commonly live on earth
narrow tartan
Elves wrtr not actually relevant. When i lose my train of thought elves pop up
restive ridge
How so?
Overwriting the purity of Ninnuan(Australia/Fortitude) with the spear of Creation(snow)
obsidian dagger
You know, that's fair, but Fortitude isn't in Australia even if Jenna Moran is.
frank light
Jenna moran’s in Australia?
vivid wraith
prophecy (i don't think she is)
obsidian dagger
Oh, I thought you were saying she was, and it would make some amount of sense.
...the other funny alternative would be playing as Natalia Kotoulinka and also in-character going "what do you mean it doesn't snow much here".
frank light
HAH
obsidian dagger
...possibly in-character engaging in a little bit of regionalism and laughing at what people consider to be "a lot of snow".
vivid wraith
Seizhi learning that Natalia made a fish out of snow to eat but couldn't bring herself to eat it because it was too precious
vivid wraith
and that's why Natalia wished to become a snow fish
frank light
SO TRUE
fleet harbor
Snow is a mimic estate
frank light
damn
OH
WAIT
Heralded
When you think about a person, or just have your attention on them, a set of characteristic signs and portents appear in their lives. This usually happens when you have a grudge, or a crush, or they're your enemy and you're planning against them, or any thing like that.
You can turn this off, but only by paying attention and explicitly saying that you do not have it on every hour or so. Otherwise, it continues to affect the world.
The portents, while theoretically dangerous, never are actually lethal or really able to *dent* the world. They can be inconvenient sometimes, but the point is that it Heralds you, it is a sign that you are in their lives.
I don't know if this is uncommon.
Its typical of horrifying monsters to possess it even.
Its not even that useful.
(Contagion)
Automatic
Global
Limited
2cp
back on my bullshit after reading froofs
frank light
thank
for context on what is a valid set of portents
pulling up my froofs book of names
obsidian dagger
I'm still trying to pin down what Nina from Artiswitch is; I think probably Prophet? Though I could see Creature of Delirium?
For context: her MO is that she runs a magical fashion boutique, the entrance of which will randomly appear to people in need. When someone wanders in, they're drawn to one of the items there, at which point Nina (after some conversation) invites them to "peer deeper". This causes them to enter a psychedelic dreamscape where... it's not explicitly stated, but I think it shows what would happen if their heart's truest wish were granted? Then they wake up, typically morally improved by the experience.
Her boutique, and her outfit, both have certain distinctive elements but also change according to her customers.
obsidian dagger
Nnnnnot exactly? More like, when someone first shows up to the shop, she's wearing the same outfit as them, or a complementary outfit.
And it's not really just generically "manifesting a power" so much as throwing them into an Unreal sequence of visions, hallucinations, and transformation.
I think it's like Prophet, which is the Frantic Black arc missing from Froofs?
...I somehow only now saw the parallel between Primordial's limbs and Awakening's powers, both being created through conversation with the world.
frank light
I *think* it's like Prophet, which is the Frantic Black arc missing from Froofs?
is prophet missin?
prophet's in there
frank light
the missing arcs are ace/aspect, adept/chosen one, sentimental, spiritual, troubled, accursed, gatekeeper, and gatecrasher
reef perch
doing some quick analogy-guessing, all black arcs are accounted for in froofs
frank light
yup
obsidian dagger
it's right there, on the Navigator, and I just missed it.
frank light
specifically all the noble arcs(except persona/memetic/star quality), all the strategist arcs, and gatecrasher are missing
but everything else is in there
vivid wraith
And it's not really just generically "manifesting a power" so much as throwing t...
Getting Theft vibes
vivid wraith
I'm still trying to pin down what Nina from Artiswitch is; I think *probably* Pr...
tiny hat means an excrucian right
vivid wraith
Cheater answer: Reality Syndrome allows for intricate magical interactions that follow their own unique rules
vivid wraith
Getting Theft vibes
having watched the show all the way through, i think my vote is still Creature of Delirium, although it's somewhat "out of order"
weymarks already existing and subjects being drawn to them, instead of being pulled out of them, etc.
frank light
That is fair yea
obsidian dagger
Yeah I think Creature of Delirium/Theft fits best. Also I'm glad I got you to watch it! Now there's just the follow-up "where are they now" videos.
She doesn't seem Gold at all, either.
obsidian dagger
Creature of Delirium has a thing that lets you control and manipulate people who are naturally lacking in what you extract... maybe that's part of what's going on here? Finding people who are already missing their desires... except, no, some of her customers don't know what they want, or aren't able to take the necessary step to take it, but there's others who know exactly what they want and need to learn that it won't actually make them happy if they get it and they need to change their goals.
frank light
Yeah!
Maybe she has a sovereignty for them
Naturally attracting them and then using that to grant catharsis
obsidian dagger
Yeah! That seems about right. The issue is that her help, despite being the same fundamental thing, solves three distinctly different types of problems, and I don't know how to unify them. If anything, it seems more like how having a Bane works for Allegories, but she's not an Allegory.
Part of the reason I thought Prophet is because it almost seemed like a prophecy. "If you work hard and fulfill your heart's desire, this is what will happen." And that can help people realize what their desire is, or see that their desire's worth the effort and turmoil, or, conversely, that it isn't and what they most stridently wanted wouldn't actually make them happy and they should change what their goal is.
restive ridge
Theres also the classic "Noble doing this to strenghten their Estate/ideological conviction/Imperator asked them do/bored"
still blaze
Any news on Nobilis? All I know is some new version is on the way, and that it borrows stuff from Glitch (and supposedly Chubo's)
candid compass
4e is in closed playtests currently it seems
But not a lot of specifics known
It will run more like Glitch in mechanics
With presumably some tweaks
still blaze
That's cool. Anything known about if they kept the wound system from 2E or if it is closer to 3E in that respect?
I think I'll need to but the Glitch rulebook, even if it's unlikely I'll ever get to play it
candid compass
I don't know how 2e Wounds work, so I can't quite say
still blaze
You have wounds in tiers and damage is also classified in tiers. If you take damage you lose wounds in order from most serious to least serious. But you never lose wounds if the damage you take is of a lesser tier than the highest tier of your remaining wounds. So until you take a hard enough hit to lose all your severe wounds you won't lose any of your minor wounds.
This means the more damage you take the more fragile you become
frank light
I imagine it’ll be closer to glitch wounds
Since it’s supposedly compatible with it
I believe 4e is basically what’s next
Since far roofs released/is about to fully release and is basically complete
still blaze
I loved the aesthetics of the 3E rulebook, but I hope the 4E one is easier to read. I had some major issues with a few players who absolutely hated it. Was really difficult to get people into a game.
frank light
So 4e, soonish? Though “soon” could be mean anything. Playtests are complete and it’s the next thing on the docket
Mhm mhm
still blaze
Though for me as I read it I kept thinking that this system was designed for me specifically. It's my favourite system.
Alas that campaign was cut short because of a scheduling issue
fleet harbor
It is kind of painful how hard it is for group members to come and go in Nobilis in particular
Not much to really be done about it, but a lot of games you genuinely can ship of theseus the whole party
And that makes things a lot easier
frank light
Yeah
still blaze
Indeed. Had a pretty small group of players, so it was very noticeable (3 players + HHG)
frank light
I have been lucky to have access to people with the specific mental illness that makes them enjoy jenna games as much as I do
still blaze
Rebirth, Waiting and Void will be missed 😛
fleet harbor
:D
Oh, I did a Power of Void once!
It was Void-as-underlying-creative-potential
I'm currently playing a Power of Vacuum
That one's a mimic estate
Apparently I have a type
still blaze
Hehehe
still blaze
I had a weird campaign going. Some Excrucians had infiltrated the chancel of Rain, Machinery and Bureaucracy, and were conducting a ritual using essence stolen from there to create their own "fake" chancel that would connect all "offices after closing hours" into an enormous world spanning network, very useful aid for their invasion.
fleet harbor
XD
still blaze
Imagine an endless maze of break rooms. The smell of coffee everywhere
frank light
…that’s certainly a scheme
fleet harbor
I think I'll need to but the Glitch rulebook, even if it's unlikely I'll ever ge...
Glitch adds a lot of additional context to the Excrucians in general and the Strategists in particular, so yeah, I recommend it
Like my power of vacuum simply would not make sense without Glitch lore
(It's also just a very fun read)
frank light
Lmao
Glitch is a fucking delight of a book
Was my introduction to the setting and I’ve…enjoyed it and it’s informed a lot of my brain
candid compass
Glitch is very good
it definitely recontextualizes the Excrucians a bit, the Strategists anyway
frank light
It’s a good time
candid compass
You have wounds in tiers and damage is also classified in tiers. If you take dam...
also now that I'm back on keyboard
the way it works in Glitch, and presumably 4e, is that basically instead of small pools of MP you have very large pools of Costs
in Glitch each stat has its own cost pool, but Jenna has apparently indicated Nobles might have two of their stats tied to the same cost, but it's a bit in flux still
when you do miracles above your stat you need to spend the respective Cost to pay the difference, just like MP
and when something happens to you that you would rather instead not, like what Wounds used to do, you can instead Take Damage
which means you take a bunch of Cost appropriate to what happened; ie you get stabbed you might take some Wear to not die, Fugue to avoid mental damage, Burn for emotional damage, etc
but the pools for this are very large, in Glitch you can theoretically spend up to 108 Cost
but in practice you won't
your costs go down by 1 every chapter, and can be reduced through some other means
but one main way is still Wounds
still blaze
Ok that's quite an interesting change
candid compass
you can take a wound at basically any time, though it needs to be at least somewhat cogent in terms of what wound you take
restive ridge
I preffer the way 3e did Wounds a lot more imo, tho I guess this system works for Glitch
candid compass
when you do, you reduce your relevant Cost by an amount
Superficial wounds consume 10 cost, Serious 25, Transformative 50
the degree of wound is mainly how important they are narratively
narrow tartan
Nods. And. Importantly as a thematic thing you track how many points have gone into wounds and at a certain point your character is supposed to die (after wrappig up couple of things)
Which i think might be more of a strategist thing
3e wounds are definitely fun though
candid compass
superficial wounds are minor, not really enforced, and fade away at the end of a chapter
Serious wounds need to actually meaningfully inconvenience you, and go away at the end of a Story
Transformative wounds are the ones that are really important to you, and they are indefinite in duration (in practice they stick around until they don't matter or don't make sense anymore)
candid compass
I preffer the way 3e did Wounds a lot more imo, tho I guess this system works fo...
I do like 3e/Chuubo wounds a lot as well, yeah
candid compass
Which i think might be more of a strategist thing
there will probably be some tweaks to this for Nobles
since they don't as much have the whole thing about being on a slow downward spiral of self destruction
I'd expect Nobles to gain and lose Costs a bit more easily
frank light
I suspect they also have access to mp
Just based on preview content
Or like, some pool of regenerating juice that isn’t damage
I assume their like, systems for interacting with cost and wounds are different a bit.
But we shall see
candid compass
Or like, some pool of regenerating juice that isn’t damage
we do have an example of a secondary Cost pool in Desperation, so it's possible that Nobles have something similar innately
frank light
That’s true!
“Extra pool of juice” is something that exists
I could see nobles having a small one that regenerates in service to their estate
Or like, through adversity
fleet harbor
In general, though, it's been suggested that Costs are a Thing About Strategists
Like
They are very good at hurting themselves for more power
Fighting a strategist is an exercise in running out of mana while the strategist keeps getting more miserable and pathetic and is coming at you just as hard
still blaze
Is strategist the main playable excrucian in Glitch or are they all available? (mimics and deceivers and warmains?)
frank light
I suspect they might have something like that if only because a 4e preview, released only last year, indicates that mp probably will show up in a spotlight mechanic at least.
We do know that costs will probably be a factor for nobles in some way since cost appears to be the main damage mechanic and important for the nettle rite. But I imagine the relationship is different
frank light
Is strategist the main playable excrucian in Glitch or are they all available? (...
Only strategists
Unfortunately
fleet harbor
We do get some new lore for other Excrucians
frank light
Because each excrucian has entirely unique stats
We do get that!
As well as deeper naming convention guides and fun tidbits
Strategists also now get something like a pstate
Some deep element of the void they are capable of binding, controlling, ruling, and learning from
Or not-element.
A sphere And its arcanum
candid compass
the most likely thing for Nobles seems that they'll get some small regenerating pools each Chapter, but that actually taking Cost might be more sticky for them
frank light
Strategists have a lot more than just “good at destruction” now.
Though they’re still, pretty good at destruction
fleet harbor
Strategists get:
- Eide (sort of your stylishness and ability to project a supervillain vibe)
- Lore (a kinda broad sphere of void things that you can tame and wield)
- Flore (this is Treasure)
- Wyrd (the ability to take their specific curse, the thing about the world that is killing them, and make it your problem)
frank light
Wyrd is also basically wbh turned into an entire stat.
It’s all the abilities to blight and curse and destroy and erase and also shatter yourself
It’s great
candid compass
Flore does have one difference to Treasure, which is mostly that it's less control-y in vibe
frank light
I’ve got a Wyrd 4 lore 6 strategist in a game and she’s super fun
fleet harbor
It is somewhat more specific though
fleet harbor
Yeah, Flore is a bit more about love
Or hate
But like ... emotional relationships with creational things
frank light
Ah yeah