Jenna Moran Games (Nobilis, Chuubo's, Glitch, WTF)

[obsidian dagger]

There's something about the ability to telephone him using literally any mirror that matters, though. I'm not sure what that something is, however.

[vivid wraith]

could be a Gift tbh

i'm in the miraculous arc mines rn so i'm all for trying to tie disparate powers into a thematically coherent whole, but I do love Gifts for being able to say "yeah and also I can do this other thing"

[obsidian dagger]

Yeah, it's probably just a one-off thing and not something more profoundly meaningful or connected. You could force it into working with Creature of the Light, and it feels like it's less about mirrors and more about "you can always communicate with me (and the visuals for that is mirrors)" but also probably not.

[vivid wraith]

"is my Domain actually high enough for me to do this on demand? no, I cheated"

[obsidian dagger]

...Demon Weapons aren't his other. The vast majority of them are loyal to him, not Other to him. They're not outsiders, and he doesn't discover lore about them or bind them.

And human souls are a substance, not a type of being. I remember someone saying that with Gatekeeper there's probably highly formalized rules on both sides of the interaction regarding what can or cannot be done?

...another question: can anyone contact him by writing on a mirror, or can important characters contact him by writing on a mirror (and then presumably other people could do so as well, theoretically)?

[vivid wraith]

i think prank calling Lord Death would be funny, so I prefer anyone

[obsidian dagger]

Random tangentially-related fact I just remembered: Death the Kid's skateboard (which is just a Perk) is named Beelzebub.

No, narratively, anyone could. But is this the sort of power where sometimes you receive calls from a certain category of person (...people calling for help?(, or the sort of power which is only used on-camera to communicate with people you already have Connections with?

...seriously, if I say "Death the Kid has a skateboard named Beelzebub" it seems like a weird thing he'd randomly have or an embarassing curio or something, but no, he's just a Skater.

And probably a Creature of the Light, at least in part, now that I think about one specific scene involving it (||the desert train||), although I wouldn't be surprised if he also has at least a little of the Auctoritas Magister, and he has a distinctive signature appearance which keeps asserting itself (which is actually a Creature of Fable thing but shush). Also... I don't know why, but I feel like Soul isn't Maka's Treasure but Liz and Patty might be Death the Kid's treasures?

Maybe it's just thinking too much about Beelzebub. It probably is, especially since it starts showing up less and less.

...he might start taking a bit of Allegory later on, with a Role of "the child of Death, and rightful heir", and a Legendary Weapon of ||the Lines of Sanzu||.

[magic mason]

Alright so, I am thinking about it
Arc(or at least stat, while the quests are factored in Henry probably works better as an NPC) assignments for portrait of Dorian Gray characters

Dorian: Called Away with the Estate of Beauty and the mood of Death Drive, the Portrait is his shadow or something.
Henry: Creature Of Fable, Lord Henry is honestly one of my big touchstones for The Dark/Lords Of Game
Basil: I have no idea what to give him tbh, I was thinking something blue or something purple but I have no idea?

[narrow tartan]

A homebrew arc that seems like it could be relevant to Doroan Gray.
chuubo.wikidot.com/mechanics:creature-of-the-dark-inqy-version

[narrow tartan]

What if angels were all cat girls/bois. And I guess excrucians would be as well

[candid compass]

some of them definitely are

[narrow tartan]

Nod nod.

[patent tiger]

Excrucian are catpeople when being perceved by other catpeople

[candid compass]

also as we all know

[patent tiger]

(Or by, hypothetically, someone that is not a catperson but whose default image of [a person] is a catperson)

[fleet harbor]

Warmain who exclusively tests people for catgirl energy/traits

Test of the Catgirl

[candid compass]

or if you use a Greater Focus to turn them into one

the ambiguity is funny that way

[patent tiger]

Fascinating

[fleet harbor]

Say, does anyone have a link to the posts where Jenna wrote up hypothetical Glitch versions of Aspect, Domain, and Persona? I've not been able to turn them up

[candid compass]

I can find you the Aspect one at least

[fleet harbor]

Defining worthiness according to catgirl

[candid compass]

but that one is also the most "complete"

[fleet harbor]

Would appreciate it!

[magic mason]

What sort of rotting world would only be solved by The Ultimate Catgirl

What is HAPPENING to that poor warmains Desmene

[candid compass]

https://jennamoran.tumblr.com/post/611254955231281152/punching-out-the-moon-or-the-glitch-trait
https://jennamoran.tumblr.com/post/611347789312638976/punching-out-the-moon-or-the-glitch-trait
https://jennamoran.tumblr.com/post/611532047576662016/punching-out-the-moon-or-the-glitch-trait
https://jennamoran.tumblr.com/post/611792562094768128/punching-out-the-moon-or-the-glitch-trait
https://jennamoran.tumblr.com/post/611878872627150848/punching-out-the-moon-or-the-glitch-trait
https://jennamoran.tumblr.com/post/611980417338425344/punching-out-the-moon-or-the-glitch-trait
https://jennamoran.tumblr.com/post/636158794151362560/approaches-to-aspect

one of the last two has I think a fairly complete ladder for Aspect

[fleet harbor]

Aye, looks like the second-to-last is the final one

And has links to the other posts

Thanks!

[patent tiger]

This feels like... it feels like a Glitch encounter, more than anything

Spring on a random Strategist PC "you are cosmically considered to have Catgirl Energy, you now have to reckon with what that means for your sense of self. also you're getting beaten to death regularly because of it"

[obsidian dagger]

...I wonder how many lobcorp anomalies would make good Actuals. The answer is probably "most of them". I don't want to delve too deep into that lore or the details thereof, though; I'm just thinking about the kind of Actual that a character could feasibly take care of. Maybe, they could even raise it somehow. This is probably a terrible idea, but maybe it's morally correct... or, on the other hand, maybe you're taking a terrible flaw in reality and refusing to fix it.

I suspect the character doing the raising would treat the Actual either like a person, or like a pet. I'm not sure if it would be a person, or if it'd be like an animal, or if it'd be like a fire, simply burning without a mind.

[fleet harbor]

Huh, I just discovered I have the old version of the Nobilis 3e pdf lying around

Wild

[vivid wraith]

conducting research in ccc, results inconclusive

[magic mason]

I feel likea lot of "weird eldritch memetic hazard" can be covered very well by either Actual or Deceiver

Treasuring an Actual is very valid as a miraclous anchor, its freak behavior and probably going to get very "My Brothers Keeper" (your brother is an eldritch monster you feed people to every once in a while)

but you can do it

[obsidian dagger]

For some reason I'm imagining a potted plant, or a bonsai tree, or something. Maybe like... hm. A small tree which grows faintly luminous apricots, which causes other trees (or, eventually, other plants) in a vicinity around it to also grow faintly luminous apricots, and which causes people around it to insatiably crave those fruit and be deeply entranced by eating them or by just watching their glow, probably before turning into similar trees themselves.

[obsidian dagger]

I feel like this is a thing that exactly Angels would be wont to do, since they have Gatekeeper to justify allies which are ultimately harmful, A Keeper of Gardens to have the ability to take treasures, and Creature of the Light to make it so doing this isn't horribly immoral.

[magic mason]

this convo kinda reminded me of the idea I had for 3e actual stat ideas

No stats but can buy gifts
15CP baseline but can go up to 30 points like npc deceivers
Noble level health I think
8 skill points
35 points of bonds and afflictions, and if their afflictions are at 5 you treat them like a Greater Emulation

[obsidian dagger]

Hm. Interesting. ...I think that making Seizhi Schwan the example character for Become Someone/Visage is a bit awkward, because they make people more like them, and so it looks like applying pSelf properties to other people... but, in fact, that's a very specific and arguably atypical manifestation of that power, and it frequently manifests more as warping people to suit and fit into the user's concept (for instance, Billy Sovereign uses it to turn people into generic faceless Bullying Victims, or sometimes other bullies who follow him around and generically agree with him).

[magic mason]

usually you build the converting other people into peons/clones as a Enchantment gift or as a high level Affliction

Because in 3e there was only the equivalents for Sentimental, Ace, Spiritual and Star Quality and everyone just sorted had to play with this

[patent tiger]

Visage is honestly very Personalike

[obsidian dagger]

Yeah, in Chuubo's terms Visage/Become Someone is Frantic Orange/Knight, and Persona got tied to Star Quality which is Sickly Orange.

[patent tiger]

...Actually, now that I look at it

Actuals are Visage/Deepness/Architect/Style

Architect and Style are both somewhat Florelike in their own ways, and Deepness is a thing Deceivers have as well

So, honestly, I think an Actual could be Persona and Treasure, plus a larger Affliction budget

(Maybe with some custom tech re using Treasures through Afflictions, which is for most people reserved for Wound Treasures)

(The shitpost take is "just use the rules for Deceivers because they're actually pretty dang close")

(But I don't think they have much Aspect-like to them so that's pretty much just a shitpost)

[restive ridge]

Glitch

[vivid wraith]

real

[obsidian dagger]

More Soul Eater talk: It looks like Death gets all of the Death Scythes as a big bundle of treasures, but I don't think he does. I think they exist, but he doesn't really take all of them as Treasures at once, and he honestly might not take all of them as Treasures at all; he definitely has Spirit, and I'm pretty sure he has Azusa, and probably picks up Dengu Dinga + his Meister by the end (although that might actually have been Death the Kid doing that and I have the timing wrong). Tezca Tlipoca, while amazing (and probably something like Indomitable and/or Creature of Fable?), doesn't seem like he's a Treasure, although he plausibly could be still.

[vivid wraith]

Eat Anything Combo (Not clickbait??)

Digest (from Primordial) means "there is nothing that is notionally impossible for you to devour," which covers a lot but not absolutely everything
Shed Scale (from Child of the Ash) means that there is nothing too large for you to eat
Seize the Intangible (from Indomitable) means you can treat physical phenomena like mist, shadows, or flame as solid enough to interact with. and eat.
Materialize (from Awakening) means that you can transform concepts into something physical and now eatable

[narrow tartan]

Very good

I had an idea once where. A Deceiver second skinning an actual. The actual then was unable to perceive the Deceiver as something different than itself

Actuals lack a sense of self. But things deom Ninuan do have a sense od self

I saw someone. Write about modeling Actuals as a set of Geasa which acted a lot like eatate properties

And an Actual could possibly rendered mostly harmless by breaking the Affliction that describes how ir subsumed others

[frank light]

Interestin

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. Could a Misdirection be used to prevent someone from Realizing that they were dead? Thus allowing them to just keep going until it wears off? Or would that take a Greater Misdirection?

[patent tiger]

That could be a Misdirection, I think

[narrow tartan]

Okay good. Was contemplating a Strategist OC who is a terrible person. And also a cartoon character

[vivid wraith]

yaaaaaay

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. If an antagonist has a screwy power that interferes with memory and perception how much should the players got to know? Probably less early on and more when they understand it better

[narrow tartan]

I once tried to think about Hunter and Monstrous. Two weird ideas I had.
-A level 5 miracle like the develop new senses thing that Lore has at level 5. But instead develops stuff to enable hunts. So some sensory stuff. And some movement stuff if it would actually be useful for a hunt.
-Moving the sensory stuff to Hunter because I was having trouble fitting everything into Monstrous and because Warmains and Gamers have both Monstrous and Hunter and Wildlords arent allowed into the not

[obsidian dagger]

I would suggest that in Chuubo's especially they should get to know a lot. PCs frequently get told "this person will betray you; play dumb about that fact" in a number of quests and are expected to play out that ignorance, and I'd probably expect something similar-ish here. Probably they wouldn't get to know what they're missing, but saying "hey, there's something screwy going on here, and you've forgotten this stretch of time and don't realize it" is probably okay.

[obsidian dagger]

Death the Kid and Lord Death (from Soul Eater) both have Angel arcs. Lord Death is statted a lot like Principal Entropy II, with a bit of Creature of the Light (probably 2 arcs actually) and then mostly A Keeper of Gardens. Death the Kid is mostly taking Creature of the Light, and then later Gatekeeper with an Other of ||Witches||, and at the very end ||he probably shifts into taking a little bit of A Keeper of Gardens||.

...I could see him having a bit of Chosen One in there even, although he really doesn't need it, and I don't think we ever see him do anything resembling training per se. He does do some Blue arc stuff, though.

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. I wonder how Style will work with Hidden World stuff. Mimics at least have a somewhat established Imperial/community that they are infiltrating. And a lot of Actuals are infiltrating something surprisingly mundane

[vivid wraith]

to the unactualized, all worlds are hidden

[frank light]

Yeah

It’s an interesting question

I think for something like imperators the hidden world already exists as like, y’know, Nobilis stuff

But what defines the hidden world for actuals

Or does it get referred to even as a hidden world

[patent tiger]

"Unactualized" takes a very different meaning in a moranite context

[narrow tartan]

It might shift more towards protecting the secret nature of the Actual/Mimic.

[frank light]

Mhm mhm

[magic mason]

I feel like Actual hidden worlds are a lot closer to traditional gatecrashing, but with the Actual writing miraculous fanfiction about a relatively normal thing most of the time

Like an Actual in the Secret World Of Plagues who collects symptoms as plot devices, The Secret World Of Plagues probably isn’t a thing, or if it is its on a weird mythic layer no one cares about

[narrow tartan]

Nods. Makes sense.

I'm thinking of getting the fame Celeste. And I saw something point out that the three separate ghosts who chase her are not connected with each other.

A Geas maybe? "Must be chased by ghosts"

[obsidian dagger]

...Gatecrashers are generally implicitly part of their Secret World, so I was going to say that was kind of weird, but... an Actual can totally be a literal disease. They're typically at least a metaphorical one.

[frank light]

typically
but they can be literal diseases

[candid compass]

the implication of Gatecrasher always seemed to me that you have gained access to this secret world when you weren't supposed to
it is the arc of being a faker after all

[obsidian dagger]

...is it? That wasn't the read I got on it.

[vivid wraith]

What was your read of it?

[frank light]

from glitch

and the wording of gatecrasher does have the vibe of you...not exactly supposed to be here?
maybe not unwelcome but

youre a gatecrasher
youre crashing in

your way of doing stuff is unique and not how its supposed to be done

[obsidian dagger]

Ah, good point.

[candid compass]

Basic Moves are the things everyone in your hidden world can do, but your Plot Devices seem to be something unique to you, that you use to cheat your way through things

[frank light]

i do really enjoy the metaphor of like, not being a wizard, but instead an ice elemental with robes on
you can do tricks of magic but youre not a wizard youre an ice elemental

[narrow tartan]

Gunnerkrigg Court arc/splat assignments has probably been done before but seems worth talking about again.
-Annie, Reynard, Kat, Ysengrin, Coyote, Ms. Jones, Zimmy, Parley, Andrew, and Annie's parents feel like they are on Miraculous Arcs from what I remember

[vivid wraith]

oooooh

[narrow tartan]

Probably Surma's generation are as well but they are less in focus for the most part.

[narrow tartan]

Zimmy is relatively easy in that she has Accursed. The nightmarish city might be her curse or it could be tied to another Arc.

[vivid wraith]

Zimmyland really makes me think Worldwalker

thematically VERY Accursed tho

[narrow tartan]

Yeah Called Away was one the second thing I thought of after seeing if Gatekeeper would fit.

But Called Away is a better one

[vivid wraith]

I think an old Jenna post calls out Coyote as being on a Storyteller arc

[obsidian dagger]

I need to go reread/catch up on Gunnerkrigg Court but I could see an argument for Zimmy as Wounded Angel? Probably Accursed, though.

[vivid wraith]

but I have failed to grok Storyteller arcs thus far, alas

[obsidian dagger]

Storyteller arcs are about the spotlight. If the campaign were a television show or movie, Storyteller is about how the character would appear in that.

It's about the stories they believe, and the stories other people believe about them.

Immortal Storyteller, Creature of the Light, is about when you think you're a major character in the story and the world agrees. You get to have a spotlight on you. You get to show up when you maybe shouldn't because you're so plot-important. You get to make the camera focus on you and Transfix people. You get to do things other people couldn't, because the narrative says it's okay.

Frantic Storyteller, Creature of Fable, is about when you tell a story about yourself, and you won't let the rest of the world disagree. You look like how you've decided you should look, not how the world implies you should look. You get to do awesome things and do awesome stories, so long as the narrative isn't focused on them — you're not going to outright overwrite the standard narrative with your own, but when the camera isn't looking, your story reigns. You get to wander the interstices between tame and wild, between the city and the woods, and hunt... and, when necessary, when a power of someone else interferes? You get to declare "no, my story doesn't involve that ability," and the world has no choice but to listen.

Sickly Storyteller, Creature of Delirium, is about having your own story, and insisting upon its truth and relevance. You can disguise yourself in some rapid and idiosyncratic way, yelling "this is what I look like" at the world so hard that your appearance changes. You can take some weymark — some aspect of existence or personality or perception or what is percieved — from a person, and claim that it is in fact a physical object you own. You can, in this extraction, pull them into a psychedelic, Unreal, hallucingenic vision. You can take any whose grasp of such a thing is flawed, and command them into your story. You can warp the appearances of others, making them into monsters... or you can cast them out of the story and into a dream world or spirit world or interstice to wander until they once more find themself.

I hope that helps somewhat, and also that it's accurate and good.

[vivid wraith]

📝

[obsidian dagger]

For tips on identifying them in media, as I understand it:

• A Creature of the Light is likely to be very dramatically central to the framing of shots or narration. They get more focus than they maybe arguably should, even. They may not even be that directly relevantly important to the narrative through their actions or skills... and yet, undeniably, they're important. They have a tendency of showing up in scenes where they maybe aren't justified to. They probably feel like the author really likes that character. They're also very attention-getting in-universe.
• A Creature of Fable probably feels like they belong in a different story than everyone else. They might have "main character energy" despite not actually being the main character, or feel like they're a character out of fairy tales when nobody else is. They also probably do, or claim to do, all sorts of wild and whacky stuff when you can't see them.
• A Creature of Delirium probably feels like they're from a different story than everyone else... but unlike a Creature of Fable, who hangs out being incongruous, the Creature of Delirium makes the rest of the narrative warp to fit them. Their appearance might lead to a darker turn to the narrative, or, alternatively, to a sudden turn towards comedy. They probably have a decent number of up-close Unreal interactions with people. They're also prone to somehow extracting something esoteric from people (or occasionally their physical hearts, or very occasionally something else physical), and taking various people who are somehow "hollow" and recruiting them.

[wheat cobalt]

Creature Of Delirium feels like the Courage The Cowardly Dog "Villain Of The Week" stat

they are wildly variable, but all of them are, in some way, Really Weird in a way that feels dissonant

[obsidian dagger]

I could see that. Most Sickly arcs would come across as dissonant, but if they're narratively dissonant, they'd most likely be Sickly Orange or Red — and if they're more about taking charge of framing than about having a role which they rope people into supporting, that's going to be Sickly Red ie. Creature of Delirium.

(note that I have not seen Courage the Cowardly Dog.)

[narrow tartan]

Coyote fits as a Gamer

[wheat cobalt]

I think the villains tend to do really weird framing stuff in CTCG

like, each episode is a different variation on a surreal horror concept

[obsidian dagger]

I need to pause and figure out my word of the day actually 😅 but look at Iolithae Septimian's section in the Glass-Maker's Dragon character list.

[wheat cobalt]

thinking on it, a lot of them are very much in the vein of Deceivers, being broadly weird and antagonistic but not strictly being Forces Of Pure Evil, just, really fucking weird and idiosyncratic

which fits them being both Sickly Orange and Sickly Red

Sealed also fits most of them, Deepness is... weird? but doesn't not fit

[obsidian dagger]

anyway my point is that Iolithae Septimian's Creature of Delirium comes through in how she takes a whole list of character stuff which is described in terms of how it fits into another narrative (the GMD campaign), and says, "No. This is The Lies of Iolithae Septimian now."

[fleet harbor]

Blort

[narrow tartan]

Saddly blort was excruciated in '57

[vivid wraith]

no!!!!

[fleet harbor]

Nooooooo

You know what would be fun

If you played the Power of WMD, as the kitten-which-is-a-WMD, after the previous Power of WMD died

[vivid wraith]

yooooooooo

[fleet harbor]

A barely sapient living WMD with fond memories of its predecessor

[candid compass]

Superior Kitten 3

[fleet harbor]

Yes

Blort

[frank light]

Superior cat 2 and superior wmd 4

[magic mason]

The Six Lessons Of Kilo Neuve

• Cultivate Disbelief
• Open doors to the realms of The Titans.
• Make things perfect, and then kill them.
• Think tomorrow’s thought.
• Teach you to leave your body behind.
• Are the manifesto of a pretender god

[fleet harbor]

I like that there are six properties but they are themselves not exactly the lessons

[magic mason]

Yeah
Though they are based off them
(I hope you get the reference)

[fleet harbor]

I don't :(

[magic mason]

He’s a guy from Lancer, the one who wrote the Horus core bonuses

The reason so many Horus members name themselves after dogs

[fleet harbor]

Gotcha

My lancer lore is weak these days

[magic mason]

Each of the properties were inspired by my personal interpretation of the bastard

[fleet harbor]

Gotcha

[magic mason]

And I realized that “The Six Lessons Of Kilo Neuve” is a pstate ass name

[fleet harbor]

True!

[restive ridge]

The Diary of Catherine Earnshaw:

• Was written by Catherine Earnshaw
• Calls forth the dead
• Recounts the past
• Uncovers the forbidden
• Frightens trespassers
• Reveals itself only to the worthy
• Allow love to exist

[magic mason]

Very good

[candid compass]

very good way of doing it

Now is Earlcliff a Warmain wielding the Test of The Wild Hunt, or a Strategist Dying of Self Loathing? 😛

[restive ridge]

An Actual

[magic mason]

Hmmmm

I feel like Warmain, the rest of the hunt are architect minons and his heartbreak is his monstrous curse

[candid compass]

The Wild Hunt as an Actual also works, yeah

[restive ridge]

....

had a realization

[magic mason]

Oh?

[narrow tartan]

Huh. Book I read when I was young, Midnight for Charlie Bone. Just found a random sequel. And I am thinking that I could find at least one Jennagame idea if I read those books.

[vivid wraith]

Oh hey i vaguely remember that

yeah there might be something in there

[narrow tartan]

Young adult is sent by conspiracy of aunties to the local talented and gifted school is roughly what I remember.

[obsidian dagger]

I was about to say something about that but then realized what I was remembering was in fact The Mysterious Benedict Society, which is very different.

If you want Jennagame ideas, though, read the Wayside School series because that's just... what School is like if it was about 2% less competent at a few points.

[narrow tartan]

Read a story that was intense. Made me imagine a. Deceiver. Spooky.

Intense story. Might share later.

[narrow tartan]

Deleted explanation of intense thing because I think just dropping a Deceiver PState based on it would be dope

[narrow tartan]

Oh yeah. The occultists. I should make a log of all the random things I see written up.

I have begun to contemplate. A stupid idea for an Excrucian splat.

The kind who don't get invited to parties by the other Excrucians because they are weirdos

Tentative arc assigments are Prophet, Sealed, Gardener, and Hunter.

Also they are muppets

[vivid wraith]

yooooooooo

[obsidian dagger]

isn't that Warmains?

[obsidian dagger]

Randomly found myself (re)reading the LP of the Submachine games, and saw this quote from the one single lore quote in the first game, and went "well, this sounds like a Deceiver":

I guess this was a great trip for me, however some people do not understand why. Well, I did lose my left arm, but what the hell, I found out that I had a third arm. The invisible one.

The full quote:

last summer I went camping under the big waterfall of Kent. I guess this was a great trip for me, however some people do not understand why. Well, I did lose my left arm, but what the hell, I found out that I had a third arm. The invisible one. Since then I started to learn how to use my karma arm, and soon my skills were those of a master. It wasn't a surprise to me when people started turning their backs on me, since I was considered to be a freak and mentally ill. Funny thing, I can't tell them the truth, it would be like explaining the possibility of space travel to a goldfish. So I'm just trying to [original cuts off here]

[narrow tartan]

Basically. What if the God-Eaters (and the Throne-Seekers) from the Prokopetz RPG Eat God were Excrucians. Not certain if they would work better as individual idiot quasi-Zu or if they had a different arc set so each individual is actually a mob of idiot muppets.

In the latter case this means that the Minions collectively are a single Excrucian.

[frank light]

Huh

[narrow tartan]

I like the idea of ineffective weirdo gangs.

Sealed for weird powers.
Hunter because I feel like off screening stuff fits and being wrapped up in their own story seems appropriate
Prophet because I like the uncertainty of it on a meta level. Not certain how to explain.
Gardener is maybe not the perfect fit but I like the creating imps and toxicity seems fitting

[frank light]

Oooo

Fun

[narrow tartan]

The plan of Mogadeeth...
...is not Mogadeeth's plan.
...is hatched in the warmth.
...turns back the cold.
...guards a precious thing.
...secures the future.
...brings joy in its fulfilment.

[frank light]

Lmao

[narrow tartan]

It is a spider love story

[narrow tartan]

Also a reference to the intense story i read last night

[obsidian dagger]

I am stressed about things out of my control and would like to be distracted by one of the following:

• A Chuubo's related task, such as:
  • Assigning arcs to a character
  • Explaining one or more arcs
  • Discussing some facet of the setting or cosmology
• An opportunity to infodump about one or more of my creations:
  • My CMWGE-based analysis of Adventure Time, and the characters and locations therein
  • My idea for a quest arc, which needs a bit of tinkering (quest 3 feels like maybe it's trying to equivocate too much on too many things, and quest 4 seems potentially out-of-place with it)
• A happy song which might fit well to desribe an arc for my "Arcs as songs" project. Bonus points if it's not Wounded Angel or anything Silver (although that might be implicit in the "happy" stipulation).

Thus far, the only song I have totally locked in is Hollow Moon by AWOLNATION as an uncannily good fit for Gatekeeper/Lore/Immortal Blue.

(which sounds better sped up; 1.25x just sounds like A Normal Song, and 1.5x sounds notably fast but not too fast. I forget how it would be on higher speeds.)

[narrow tartan]

Could you explain Allegorical a bit? Mostly. I get the whole Tangled History line but never understood how the rest of it fit in and how the implications of stuff like Brong to Fruition

[obsidian dagger]

Allegorical/Allegory, as Immortal Orange/Knight, is about having a role or position or title, and the world aggreeing with you on that fact really hard. A Tangled History is the world stating truths about you, pursuant to that role.

Wonder-Weapon is... hard to explain, other than by saying that of course legendary heroes have a legendary weapon. But some of its features come from being an intersection of Immortal and Orange:

• All Orange arcs have the ability to acquire a "supporting cast". Become Someone/Visage, as Frantic Orange, has the ability to simply... have a supporting cast by pulling people in. Star Quality/Persona, as Sickly Orange, has an even more "aggressive" version of this power, using Inevitability Entanglement to simply ensnare someone as a vital part of your story. But Allegorical/Allegory, as Immortal Orange, can't inflict its role on someone else; instead, it simply declares "I have a supporting cast" and the world agrees and provides it to them by means of Awaken.
• Immortal arcs, in general, have some way to Not Lose to miracles. In Allegory's case, that's Wonder-Worker.
• Immortal Arcs have an "affordance" — something that, if anyone else did it, would be morally or factually or tactically wrong, but which is OK for them. And if anyone else went around cursing random people, that would be evil and wrong and against the world's wishes. But Allegories have Taboo, so it's totally fine for them.
• Orange arcs have some way to apply the properties of their story to others. Allegory does this by means of Bring to Fruition.

Some of this is an attempt to force an explanation to exist post hoc, and I'm not confident it's all actually correct. I'd want to cross-reference Become Somebody and Star Quality to see which Orange traits I can match up, and probably also figure out more clearly what the Immortal traits are (outside of an affordance (or perhaps "indulgence" would be a better term? "Privilege"?) which either comes in at Arc 2, or technically comes in earlier but isn't really fully online until arc 2 (although you have to count a level 2 Bond as the "default" bond strength, since a number of affordances are bonds equal to the arc level)).

In particular, Awaken seems to clash slightly with the description of Imbue:

Over time you’ll tend to draw treasures, servants, and allies to yourself.
So if that's the "supporting cast" power, then what's Awaken?

But the Orange arcs also have some way of saying "I'm part of this story" — A Tangled History for Allegory, Adaptable for Become Somebody, and Somebody Else's Story for Star Quality. Oddly, Tangled History is arc 0 and the others are arc 1.

It feels weird to say I don't completely understand Allegory in light of that essay, but in part this is because, while I said a lot, I'm not actually the most confident in all of what I'm saying and that I'm not just making up plausible-sounding but ultimately incorrect stuff.

For a decent example of Allegory, look at Finn from Adventure Time. He's good at traversing dreams, he has a Tangled History although it's not clear that he actually did a ton for all of those events, he has a Legendary Weapon of "my right arm", which changes form quite a few times, and he has a habit of running into talking inanimate objects, although usually he isn't involved in them becoming animate (I say "usually" because... look at NEPTR). His Taboo is that he's driven to fight evil, even when that "fighting" makes things go worse than if he had dealt with the problem without making it into an outright fight.

In general, while Creatures of the Light feel like main characters in the short term, Allegories are probably the main character (or at least a major character) for a good number of in-universe stories. They're... well, they're an allegories, in a sense. They're "the human adventurer" or "the rightful king of Camelot" or "the monster which punishes the greedy" (there's plenty of evil, monstrous Allegories, but I'm having a surprising amount of trouble thinking of one).

I feel like Sun Wukong might have a bit of Allegory mixed in with Creature of Fable all roads lead to Sun Wukong.

[obsidian dagger]

Oh! Here's another great example of an Allegory: Sol Badguy. He doesn't especially Awaken stuff, I don't think, but otherwise he fits great.

Asuka/That Man probably is too, but there's enough else going on there that I just don't know for sure.

Now here's a tough question: what's Happy Chaos? He loves Allegory, but he also has something else Orange to make people into minions. His idiosyncratic insistence on making things instead of Just Winning also probably fits, and he wouldn't exactly mind Reality Syndrome either.

[obsidian dagger]

The tricky part about wanting to use Guilty Gear songs is separating the song from the character.

[narrow tartan]

Very useful

Hmm. The Dark. As I see them. They don't exactly want humans to die. They find the way humans burn out and die to be amazing but it is the burning that they long for. And if you aren't dying then you could be burning brighter.

[fleet harbor]

No they specifically want you to die at the end

The dying is critical

They want you to fly too close to the sun and fall

If you’ve seen Thelma and Louise

[vivid wraith]

Glitch characterizes them as kind of a death drive thing

[fleet harbor]

That’s the dark’s favorite film

[vivid wraith]

"the human power of self-destruction"

[fleet harbor]

The dark hollers and cheers when they go off the cliff at the end

[narrow tartan]

Specifically. Way I like to see it. They want you to get as close to the sun as possible. And they know for certain that you did it when your wings fall off. And. To them the two driving off the cliff is just another way the wings can fall off

[vivid wraith]

PTubo's update: we may have a Creature of the Light/Accursed on our hands

[narrow tartan]

??? Oh?

[vivid wraith]

Princess Tutu character Mytho has a lot of princely flair and special effects leftover from when he used to be a fairy tale character, but for most of the show he's in Suffering Mode

so, both feel very appropriate

[obsidian dagger]

That sounds vaguely Creature of Delirium. ...I desperately want to watch this.

[narrow tartan]

I had a dream about miraculous arcs. And the process of writing them. There was a work-in-progress silver one. I remember the names of two abilities: Mysterious Death, and Meld (which was in the maybe category). Also I thought it was a good fit for the Undersiders

[magic mason]

I wonder how many fallen Deceivers side with creation and how many just become more bitter and hateful

[fleet harbor]

I dunno. We know strategists are more likely to leave the Valde Bellum then actually change sides, but ... hm.

I kind of suspect fallen Deceivers would be the types to try to create their own, third faction

[narrow tartan]

Had a thought ti explain how I see Magissters of the Game. I would have it so that while Voldemorts death is what makes the story complete his actions before then trying to stave off death are also compelling to them

[magic mason]

Lords Of Game are the imperator type most likely to have Dead Wife Guy Energy

[obsidian dagger]

...so, in Chuubo's, after most of reality dissolved into the Outside and the only permanently stable section was Town, a good number of Excrucians ended up joining the Bleak Academy... but a lot of them basically said "Nice! We won," and just kind of settled down in Town and didn't cause any problems for anyone. And I sort of can't help but wonder which Excrucian types were most likely to keep causing problems and which were mose likely to declare victory and settle in.

[vivid wraith]

hmmmmmm

Very hard to say I think

[obsidian dagger]

I feel like a decent number of Warmains would keep testing people, and a decent number of Deceivers would feel like reality was sufficiently stripped away for the True Thing to be revealed. Strategists... I could see it going almost 50/50. Mimics I really have no clue.

[frank light]

I think for many strategists they might have just given up lmao

[obsidian dagger]

Why do you say that?

[magic mason]

I found a cursed pick for an Actual theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWou7YzGN4w

[obsidian dagger]

I've only ever heard the parody of this...

No, I've heard the original at some point.

[vivid wraith]

bigbrain

[obsidian dagger]

I thought these were silly Neil Cicierga fake lyrics

[magic mason]

The Idea is

Its the shape of a song, the shape of a love song even
but its mostly pop culture references and nonsense. There is a manic energy to it that makes it almost wrong

it feels like a parody of itself

like I can imagine this song playing the background as an actual rips reality apart and a team of nobles work together to try and kill it

[vivid wraith]

The world's been remade, maybe it's not wrong this time

[magic mason]

How can I help it if I think you're funny when you're mad?
Trying hard not to smile, though I feel bad
I'm the kind of guy who laughs at a funeral
Can't understand what I mean? Well, you soon will
I have a tendency to wear my mind on my sleeve
I have a history of taking off my shirt

this is the section that made me think of this

[candid compass]

my personal read is that the Chuubo's version kinda made everyone unhappy
it's not exactly what the Excrucians wanted either

the Strategists anyway

Deceivers might be fine

[obsidian dagger]

Ah. I thought by "giving up" you meant that they still wanted to destroy reality, on some level, and just weren't trying to anymore.

[frank light]

My thoughts are many of them still seem to be on accursed arcs/being poisoned by the wrongness of the world

But if this first attempt at destroying it didn’t seem to work…at a certain point why waste health and energy and time doing it again

Something like chancery strategists

“Well life still sucks. Looks like the omnicide plan is out the window.”

[candid compass]

Strategists are probably still Dying
Town is still there, so Creation persists
and now there's the Outside, and that's a whole other can of worms that no one seems to enjoy

because the Outside isn't Ninuan/the void either, not until you get really far out
it seems to be a weird secret third thing

[frank light]

There does seem to be like, excrucians living out there

So maybe you can get far out enough to enjoy those sights

And they do at least have their sanctuaries

[obsidian dagger]

is Johnny on the Monorail Awakening/Deepness, do you think?

Actually what I should do is post a song and say "what arc do you think this is" to avoid confirmation bias...

I'm trying not to repeat musicians, and find clear matches.

And there's lots of decently good songs (in terms of arcs; they're all bangers) from the awkwardly named Pete Townshend album All The Best Cowboys Have Chinese Eyes but I can use at most one of them... so I need to figure out what's best, and also what slots are open?

[fleet harbor]

Hm. Post apocalyptic Nobilis or Glitch game with a grounding in SMT.

[narrow tartan]

My headcanon things. That nake things make sense to me.
-The Outside existed before the Sun died but it was tiny and mostly a curiosity.
-Most worlds have a "prosaic" world. But for most places it is like the skin of an apple or a grape. The Earth is a grapefruit by comparison.

[frank light]

I imagine that for other worlds their prosaic equivalents are less rigid than earth’s yeah

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. I had a thought. About how to fit Grasp the Intangible into Monstrous. Because. When I tried to work out a ladder for Monstrous I couldn't make it fit. And. Like, my new thought is what if it was tied to Greater Keen Sense of Smell (I call it Keeness). But then. Greater Keeness. Would Greater Keeness have to lose something in comparison to the Lore seeing things Miracle?

[obsidian dagger]

Murtaugh's third arm...
• ...is not visible to the unenlightened eye.
• ...brings distant places together.
• ...creates fractures in space.
• ...is holy.```
A very rough attempt at a Submachine-inspired pState.

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. Annie from Gunnerkrigg Court. Probably Wanderer/Called Away, Adept, maybe Allegorical?

[vivid wraith]

Oh yeah definitely Called Away

[candid compass]

Annie should probably have something for her fire elemental stuff, though not sure Adept is it

[narrow tartan]

Yeah. I dont think she is on a Gold Arc?

1 Arc tied to the fire/magic stuff
2 Arc for the forest stuff (Called Away)
3 Arc about the psychopomps? But that might overlap with the next thought
4) Arc about the legacy/roll of being a fire elemental, and surma's daughter.

Hmm. What does exploring mysteries of the school fall under?

[vivid wraith]

...Gatekeeper?

[narrow tartan]

Huh maybe.

There is a homebrew arc that sort of fits Annie.

Actually. Not really? But sort of

Gate keeper isnt a bad fit though

And. I like the idea of having an arc for the court and an arc for the forest

Forest, Court, Being-Surma's-Daughrer, and Friends?

Actually screw it. She gets to be on the homebrew Princess arc

[vivid wraith]

WOOOOOOO

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. I think. Figuring out the chunks od a characters story is a good way of assigning arcs?

[vivid wraith]

Probably
powers are shiny attention-grabbers for me, but arcs are supposed to be narrative units first

[obsidian dagger]

I need to reread Gunnerkrigg Court but she is definitely on at least one blue thing. Gatekeeper and/or Gatecrasher, probably; I'm heavily inclined towards Gatekeeper but there's a non-awful argument for both. There's also actually an argument for Child of the Ash?

[narrow tartan]

Ooh maybe. I could tell she was on a green arc with the forest. And

But thenatically why Child of Ash

[obsidian dagger]

She's on something Green or Black, but probably Green.

...fire elemental. That's not really a good answer, admittedly. She's not Sickly enough to be Called Away, though, I don't think, and I'm pretty sure Spiritual doesn't quite fit because she isn't prone to just summoning an element directly, so I guess Child of the Ash by process of elimination?

There's a bit of an argument for Prophet but I don't think it's a good argument.

[narrow tartan]

Nods. Hmm. Heh. She has Gatekeeper twice.

Or. Huh.

The intersection of mechnics and thematics is interesting?

And story

Hmm. Surma might be on a red Arc

Have been

If we didnt have the colors and valences. Called Away might be grouped with Gatekeeper and Gatecrasher

Particular interesting homebrew arcs.
L

For Gunnerkrigg Court.

Eh maybe not. Sleepy

[narrow tartan]

Knight Radiants miraculous arcs. Which. Is actually kind of funny because they pretty much have five levels

[vivid wraith]

yeah

[narrow tartan]

Though not as high powered for the most part

[narrow tartan]

Crossing stuff over with Jennaverse stuff by having it be over stable worlds in the outside

[vivid wraith]

thinking more about this

We don't have a ton of sample size to figure out what the consistent elements of each Radiant's paths are
You could maybe create an arc that applies to all of them at once, "this is the story of embracing an ideal," but idk

[narrow tartan]

Poor Kaladin stuck on the Road of Trials

[magic mason]

Morbius has Style for the secret world of vampires

his style technique being Sci-Fi Medicine

[magic mason]

Possibly stupid question

Could you ennoble a child of Prescott

[vivid wraith]

Not legally

[magic mason]

Wdym?

[vivid wraith]

just thinking it would be a very bad idea all around, so every Imperator would be asking you "why did you do that, what's your problem"
But I think it's possible because that's the funnier option

maybe they become like the Noble version of a wildlord idk

[frank light]

I am giving vampires a fountain of free flowing blood

They deserve their one biblical miracle

[narrow tartan]

Heh. Is there a horrible cost included?

[frank light]

The cost is mostly on me

In the form of like 6 immersion

It’s overall actually helpful

[candid compass]

Design is fortunately pretty easy

You can just make stuff

[frank light]

It’s to help some vampires that have been very kind in letting us host our support group meetings in their building

[narrow tartan]

Nods. Yes they did it out of the kindness of their hearts. And not because of any unfortunate incidents

[candid compass]

they just run a diner

that we happened to choose as the place of our Chancery meetings

the vampires just don't feel like they need to mess with the table of weirdos arguing amongst themselves

[frank light]

More or less yeah

[magic mason]

So, some example characters in far roofs are able to take abilities from arcs they don’t by default have access to, meaning that they theoretically have certain Nouns you could define for them not defined for them by default

I wanna hear some funny ideas y’all have for them

The Centamani Bearer has a unexplored Allegory and a only partially explored Worldwalker
The Magician has an unexplored primordial, memetic covers everything in allegorical
The Navigator has a mostly unexplored worldwalker
The Old Timer needs truths If they go into Memetic
The seeker has mostly unexplored primordial and Kaiju to play with

[vivid wraith]

Kaiju makes very fun use of Seeker's established "Being Made Monstrous" Mood

[magic mason]

Yeah!

[gloomy oasis]

Apparently I have Chuubo's and Nobilis in my DTRPG library, but I've never been able to understand them.

[patent tiger]

What specifically art thou looking for, in terms of understanding?

Like, is it the mechanics, the worldbuilding, etcetera

[gloomy oasis]

Well, I'll have to give reading it a shot again before I can answer. It was years ago. But hopefully having this thread in my list will help me remember to do so.

[fleet harbor]

Which edition of Nobilis do you have, btw?

There are some conceptual changes between 2e and 3e

[vivid wraith]

ganbatte

my strategy was stewing in other people's discussions until I absorbed understanding through osmosis but hopefully there's some other shortcut

[gloomy oasis]

I have 3.

[vivid wraith]

nice nice

[fleet harbor]

3 is a good starting point

[magic mason]

anyone got fun ideas?

[vivid wraith]

I just clocked that the red icon in Chuubo's is a broken heart

[narrow tartan]

Style and Visage are really thematically synergistic.

Gatecrasher and Become Somebody

Like. When there was discussion of Isekai protagonists. And probably a lot of Protagonists. And a set up we sort of settled on was.

Sonething like Sealed (Reality Syndrome), Flore (Sentimental), Style (Gatecrasher) and Visage (Become Somebody)

And. I have seen a cool writeup for descendants of Imperators with Style and Visage.

[frank light]

Ooo

That’s actually fun

[narrow tartan]

And. Ichigo's Sealed hack is that he has actually been a [blank] all along!

[frank light]

hah

[obsidian dagger]

Ichigo definitely has Wounded Angel, though. ...probably.

Unless it's a weird take on Child of the Ash? He has a lot of spiritual journeys of self-acceptance in ways which are probably either Green or Black.

[narrow tartan]

Nods. I trust your judgement

[magic mason]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_L5ONAiDAE
Good general glitch song

[magic mason]

My Name Is David But My Friends Just Call Me Dave
Failing: Mundanity
Truths:

• Everyone is my friend.
• Nobody can hurt me.
• I am in a great mood.
• I am your coworker.
• I have surprising skills

Made a funny Actual/Become Somebody guy

[vivid wraith]

"I am your coworker" is very good

[fleet harbor]

Oh that's fantastic

I love that

Especially because this character is in Every Office Comedy

[magic mason]

Keep in mind that because of how Visage works My Name Is David has these always active as Geas/Afflictions

[fleet harbor]

Aye

I love how this thing could just appear and infiltrate a person's life

In really creepy fashion

[magic mason]

I started thinking about this because of how memetic the phrase “My Name Is [X] But My Friends Call Me [X]” is

[magic mason]

Yeah!

[fleet harbor]

I love the idea of throwing an actual at players by way of their characters' mortal friends and family

People who are wholly unequipped to fight back or even notice what's happening, but the stuff happening to them seems incongruous to the miraculous being in their lives.

[magic mason]

Only thing I can’t come up with yet is what Hi I’m David’s style looks like

He’s probably infiltrating the secret world of Late Stage Capitalism, and his plot devices probably are him “knowing a guy” or “a trick he picked up”

But what is his signature skill

Persuasion or maybe something more visceral like Mind Control would work

Nothing can stop My Name Is David in his role of being a Salaryman, as is the nature of visage

Obstacles, free will, basic fucking logic

And in the process his coworkers become more like him

Late stages will have entire buildings of just

“Oh hi Dave, my name is David my friends call me Dave”

On loop for hours

[fleet harbor]

You know, a good clue is if "I am your coworker" started causing different companies to suddenly be the same company

[magic mason]

Starts becoming extra dangerous if you don’t know about the effect and confront them as a noble lmao

[fleet harbor]

Aye

[narrow tartan]

Mhmm. Existential Philosopher Actual portrayed by Chat GPT

[magic mason]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-CopbjQyd8Y&pp=ygUiSGFybGV5IHBvZSBlYXQgc2hpdCBhbmQgZGllIGx5cmljcw%3D%3D

Warmain energy song
I promise that despite the title its more on the angsty side than just evil

[narrow tartan]

Is Eide based on a germanic root of some sort?

[magic mason]

I think its from the Greek Eidos for “form” or “essence

[narrow tartan]

Pottery

[candid compass]

the Chuubo's Halloween oneshot has taken a turn into Ace Attorney at the finale

[patent tiger]

I got sent off to do a fight scene while not being a character who can fight well, so instead I have made this everyone's problem

[obsidian dagger]

Mamizou in the touhou manga is unironically a great example of what Impresario looks like.

There's probably a better panel of her whistling to summon stuff, but she does sometimes seem to go "hi, I'm your friend now". Although maybe I'm being distracted too much by the facile "has minions" aspect of Impresario, and then confirmation bias fills in the rest?

[frank light]

Minions can be very gatekeeper flavored

Or gardener or sentimental

Many ways to get minions

Impressario has minions but you’re also good at some weird behind the scenes shit

[narrow tartan]

Ru has Holy. Moral License: Being toxic

[vivid wraith]

you've cracked it

[frank light]

RU IS A RULESLORD I KEEP SAYING IT

[magic mason]

And Ru’s lord even

[obsidian dagger]

Mamizou shows up at the end of Ten Desires as someone who pops in from outside Gensokyo (which, admittedly, applies to about 70% of the cast), and she's definitely not on Gatekeeper; she's the boss tanuki and gets to order around other tanuki but she is a tanuki herself (she just prefers to go around in human form in the village and humanoid form elsewhere). She doesn't feel tied to any specific location enough to be a Keeper of Gardens.

I could imagine her as Sentimental in Lotus Eaters of Paradise, but she also had minions in Forbidden Scrollery. In that one, though, she had both her tanuki minions, and a bunch of tsukumogami who she enlisted/enthralled? In a way which could be Blue. Those, she does create/gather/cultivate in a more Sentimental way, arguably... but I think it's just the fact that, with the right arcs of Impresario, you can have an extra category of minions.

So she has a bunch of weak/newborn tsukumogami which... I don't know their skill, but mostly what they do is just whisper and repeat rumors (they might even be a quest treasure but later she has a bunch party with her because apparently that can make a tanuki stronger)... and a bunch of lesser tanuki who have (Magical) Tanuki Shapeshifting 2 or so. (We don't see them shapeshift that often, though; mostly they do stuff like tracking or watching people, or acting as a mob like they are in that example panel.)

[obsidian dagger]

Speaking of which, here's my potential partial writeup for (Magical) Tanuki Shapeshifting:

Non-magical techniques:
[Obstacle 0] Notice when someone else is disguised
[Obstacle 0] Drum on your belly
[Obstacle 1] Make a boat out of mud

Magical techniques:
[Obstacle 1] Transform into your default disguise*
[Obstacle 1] Transform into a tanuki — that is, the little furry animal
[Obstacle 1] Transform into a humanoid form with animal ears and a bushy tail
[Obstacle 1] Transform into something generic and not particularly detailed
[Obstacle 1] Transform into a human being, but not any particular one**
[Obstacle 1+] Adjust a transformation on the fly
[Obstacle 1+] Transform part of yourself***
[Obstacle 2+] Transform into a useful inanimate object
[Obstacle 2+] Transform into someone else, and convincingly pretend to be them
[Obstacle 2+] Transform into some animal other than a tanuki
[Obstacle 3+] Transform into something highly implausible, like a fire or a grain of rice
[Obstacle 4+] Transform into something ludicrous, like a mountain range or the sun

Common bonds:
[I can turn leaves into common objects as part of my transformation.]
[When I'm startled, my tail pops out.]
[While I'm in a cage, I can't transform.]
[I always know where to find a little bit of money.]

*: "Default disguise" varies depending on your campaign, but is expected to mean "the form you spend most of your time in while in play". In most campaigns, this is going to be either a specific human form. In some particularly unusual campaigns, you won't really have one of these and will spend most of your time un-disguised, but just pick your most common transformation if you can. You can pick up additional "default forms" as a Trick Perk, if there's multiple human forms you like to cycle between.
**: You can repeat a form you recently took on with this skill, but otherwise, you won't look like anyone specific.
***: I'm not sure if this is easier or harder than full transformation.

I'm also not sure if in every campaign characters should get to have a bushy-tailed form and a default fully-disguised form, or if, in settings where being a humanoid tanuki is normal enough for you to walk around like that. that would be your "default form" and any fully-human form would be a disguise barring a Trick Perk. ...I think it might be the latter, actually; if you spend most of your time pretending to be human you get to have that be your default form, but if you mostly just like the advantages of being humanoid (like being tall) you don't get a free disguise. I also think that generally holding onto a transformation should only last while you sustain the intention, but sometimes (especially when shifting between default forms) it just lasts until you turn into somethng else.

The "non-detailed inanimate object" thing should probably just say "statue of a tanuki" because that's its main use case, but occasionally I could see it being used to turn into... idk, a chair or something? Whereas the Obstacle 2 version would let you turn into something like a functional fire extinguisher.

That + partial transformations and/or transforming leaves are probably how you're going to mimic the techniques of other magical skills, by the way.

Also, regarding "ludicrous transformations: If you make an intention to turn into the Sun, you're not going to turn into the actual Sun, because that would be ridiculous for many reasons due to being impossible and/or arguably being an Obstacle 2 effect, if you're in Town, but that's obviously not what was intended.

...but you will turn into a big floating orb of light whch slowly rises up, and if people see it from the right angle it'll look like the sun is rising, and any vampires or anything else which doesn't like sunlight will recoil away from that glow.

...tell me this isn't Gatekeeper in a nutshell:

[magic mason]

Yeah

[obsidian dagger]

I was tempted to just take the bottom left quadrant, I'll admit it

[magic mason]

I love Gatekeeper villans as a concept

[obsidian dagger]

Okay, what's Aya? She's interested primarily in selling her newspaper (which frequently at least approximates the truth) and is somewhat annoying with her tendency to snoop around looking for "scoops", in conjunction with her Actual Camera and her extremely fast flight. She's not totally oblivious or unwilling to participate in the social contract, and she tries to manipulate the village in pro-Tengu ways and not just pro-Aya ways, but she's entirely willing to lie or distort the truth in her newspaper to make it sell better and/or for the sake of Gensokyo.

She has Creature of Fable energy but she's definitely not a Creature of Fable.

(Aya, lying through her teeth)

I mean, I guess that's technically true? She hides the truth for reasons other than her personal desires, and wildly distorts the truth in her newspapers, but she... generally... seems at least somewhat invested in learning the truth and maybe even sharing it?

[fleet harbor]

I just realized I never shared my Worst Idea Ever

Meon x Iolithae Septimian

[magic mason]

no I agree

I was posting about this before

[fleet harbor]

Also a Chuubo's campaign plot point based on this: Meon shows up without explanation, and releases Iolithae from the basement she's tied up in

[frank light]

i love this one so much

[fleet harbor]

They proceed to fuck around being the worst couple of all time

Worst for everyone else, to be clear

Toxic (for everyone else) relationship

[vivid wraith]

yu gi oh upon ye
https://cohost.org/malymin/post/4275788-the-anime-girl-dest

[obsidian dagger]

I'm not going to lie, even knowing the context that gave me whiplash.

[narrow tartan]

There was a Ryuugi fic that crossed worm and nobilis. Only had a prologue in the snippet thread.

Strategist Taylor was besties with Iolithae Septimian

[narrow tartan]

This is amazing

[vivid wraith]

i know right

[narrow tartan]

Why are strategists so cool?

[candid compass]

it's their nature as Excrucians

[vivid wraith]

by all rights, it shouldn't be possible. our top minds are working on this as we speak

[candid compass]

to be cool and beautiful

even when they look like they got hit by a bus just now

[restive ridge]

they arent

[magic mason]

Its the House MD energy

[patent tiger]

Flore gives an inherent amount of gap moe

This applies to both Nobles and Strategists

[fleet harbor]

God damn it you’re right

“I can’t stop loving things” as a stat is gap moe for both of them

[frank light]

I KNOWWW. THEYRE MY FAV

[narrow tartan]

They stylish. Got unbuilt style

[restive ridge]

My brain is melting rn

[frank light]

Hahahh

The one silver

[restive ridge]

Shinobu is interesting

Theres arguments for Orange or even Black but I went with Emptiness because vampires are p Silver, and with a inclination towards Indomitable

[frank light]

Mhm mhm

[restive ridge]

I think doing this exercise has revealed to me a major weakness of Chuubo Arcs

There is no good Arcs for characters who dont have, but are henchmen, goons, subordonates, dragons to other characters but which have equal narrative power to their uppers

[vivid wraith]

yeah i ran into that trying to assign arcs to cyber newtypes

[restive ridge]

Ic ic

[vivid wraith]

might be a Role arc that ends early but i'm not sure

[restive ridge]

Arguably Star Quality is the nearest fit

(This implies Nobles are henchmen to their Estates)

(Which actually unironically, yeah fits')

[vivid wraith]

oooooooh

[frank light]

star quality is great

[obsidian dagger]

Depending on how they do this, I could see Star Quality. I could also see Sentimental with "Henchman" as their treasure skill.

Though that's not quite right for the specific character archetype you're describing... but being a hypercompetent henchman whose treasures are the various superiors you're serving and/or enabling and/or correcting for would be, in my opinion, extremely funny. Possibly with something Blue tossed into the mix?

[narrow tartan]

Style might be workable

And. I feel like. There could be another arc that focuses on Magical skills like Adept. And that there is definitely space for something in Green or Black.

[narrow tartan]

I don't know. If any of the times. I tried to think of something new that could have a place somewhere in the wider Jennagames setting. I don't think they were ever worth anything

[fleet harbor]

Adept is very specific, yeah

[obsidian dagger]

this is lore from a yugioh card book but it goes so unnecessarily hard and makes me think of this channel every time:

A “god” is that which steals: It wears the clothes of humans, it wields the weapons of humans
A “god” is that which devours: It swallows the life of humans, it slurps the death of humans
A “god” is that which grieves: It pities the sorrow of humans, it curses the love of humans
A “god” is that which dies: It destroys humans, it is destroyed by humans
A “god” is that which is born: Countless times, countless times
Wild? Decievers? Warmains? I don't know but definitely something powerful!

[narrow tartan]

If a character with Gardener was especially toxic would they have high or low Gardener?

[vivid wraith]

potentially high

[magic mason]

The Magisters Of Humanity

Both Of Them

[magic mason]

usually the stat sucks most to have at the middle levels, and toxic is kinda the "downside" of gardener so I assume gardener 4 is narratively the most toxic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FAr1HHb6TU
High prophet Game Magister With These Vibes

[obsidian dagger]

Very specific snippet from a Touhou fic, which... some sections probably are too specific to the setting, but it's still a great example of what Reality Syndrome/Sealed is, in my mind:

It was not-uncommonly remarked that Rumi's mind seemed to exist on a different plane of existence from everybody else's.

In some ways, that wasn't entirely wrong.

Rumi had spent half the night reading her stolen books from Suzunaan, filling her head with inventions that even the outside world thought was impossible: machines so small that they could assemble atoms, computers that thought for themselves, printers that could build anything from the right raw materials, machines that could shoot messages back in time.

Most of it wasn't much good for the task at hand, especially with the materials she had. Some of it slipped right through her head without inspiring any inspiration.

A few stuck, though. Slowly, they grew outward into a blueprint.

Her hands were moving almost before she realized it, picking just the right pieces from her scrap pile. She hammered a few of them into a casing, and only knew she'd found the right shape when she saw it. She plucked a few electronic components and glued them inside. She flipped a soldering iron out of a fingertip on her prosthetic arm and made a few new connections between them. She absently brushed her hand across the bottles of chemicals by her workbench and grabbed the ones that felt correct; after mixing them over heat and letting them cool, they formed a crystal, which she placed into an assemblage she hadn't even known she'd made.

Rumi didn't know how to make a teleporter. Or a time machine, or a prosthetic arm for that matter. She could barely manage to make a birdhouse if left to her own devices, and to be honest, the result would only be suited for the less dignified sort of bird. Sometimes, though, if she squinted, she could just barely make out the idea-shaped holes where a device could be. She wasn't sure why it didn't work for anybody else. Antigravity, time machines, teleporters—these things were just as much a part of human fantasy as any kappa or tengu. All they needed was a helping hand to introduce them to Gensokyo.

Slowly, pieces fitted together, in accordance with a design that she was glimpsing only in brief flashes. Only once she put a few screws in and could find no more instructions in her thoughts did she know that she had a finished product. She sat it aside and moved on to another, then another.

I could definitely trim this section down but I wasn't sure where to trim and was feeling lazy and so just dumped in the whole thing.

Reality Syndrome is Sickly Gold. It's about practicing a skill or talent that you can do which runs counter to the rest of the world and plays by its own rules of difficulty. What better example than the ability to make fictional inventions?

Making weird specific inventions could just be Gatecrasher, but when the inventions are explicitly considered to be impossible and fantastical within the universe especially that screams Reality Syndrome.

There's also a version of Awakening/Deepness which does weird stuff like that with impossible inventions, but I don't think that's what's happening here. Yes, Gensokyo is shaped by human fantasies and imagination, but there's nothing particularly Deep or secret about that fact.

[fleet harbor]

I would say all of the Earth-specific imperators fit this in one way or another: True Gods, Rules, Games

[frank light]

Love the gods of the earth

[gloomy oasis]

Would one of the Jenna Moran games be a good fit for Homestuck? Despite the VGRPG stylings, the story is shaped by the characters far more and far more literally than in most fantasy TTRPGs.

[vivid wraith]

hehehehhehehehe

This is a Chuubo's hack that's specifically designed for a certain AU, adds a bunch of fan material, etc.

https://web.archive.org/web/20230919230930/http://orngjce223.net/chuubo/A User's Guide to the Apocalypse unfinished.pdf

the AU stuff probably disqualifies it from being a "true" HS game, but, it gets real close

[vivid wraith]

Also I have a simplified nobilis Homestuck hack of my own that i'll work on.... eventually

(it's mostly classpect stuff instead of Themes and Narratives, but i'll see what I can do)

[fleet harbor]

I think Chuubo's would be a good fit

Just understand that miraculous powers sometimes manipulate the narrative and its conceits more than they make something physically happen, if that makes sense

[vivid wraith]

like vriska

[fleet harbor]

Yeah, it absolutely fits

It's just sort of something to wrap your head around re: Chuubo's

That narrativium is a resource

[frank light]

Yeah…

Does Vriska have Hunter

[fleet harbor]

Oh that's interesting

I always cast Vriska as a Deceiver

The Luck of Vriska Serket …
… is terrible and causes everything to go wrong (2)
… has been contaminated by malign influences (2)
… makes itself worse over time (1)
… is infectious (1)
… is probably some sort of metaphor for narrative weight or something I dunno (1)

[magic mason]

The Lazarus Foundation

Sometimes referenced by the Nobilis as the Church Of Humanity, The Lazarus Foundation is Multinational medical technology and military engineering corporation who serve the Song Of Rules. Higher positions in the corporation, its executives and its scientists and its immortal founder all are aware of the magisters of humanity and openly serve the Lords Of Rule and Nobles who agree with them. In exchange these high ranking members are often heavily modified by a mix of technology and the boons of the gods they worship, but they make sure to maintain vestiges of their humanity. Their end goal is to create a world in which no one can, or would want to die. Their current goal is the use of nanotechnology to give people extremely fast regeneration, but testing has found results inconclusive and extreme amounts of harm very quickly have been able to kill them anyway. 

The Order Of Arachne  

Also called the Cult Of Human Free Will, they are a globally spanning secret society of people from all walks of life who have united behind one goal, preserving the free will of humanity above all else, often this brings them into conflict with the alien agendas of the various divinities of the world and beyond. Even if they win once or twice, the inevitability of constantly getting into often violent conflict with literal gods means that they often get themselves killed. The Song Of Games is more than happy to support their affairs, arguing that unlike those other gods they only want what is best for humanity. The support of the song of games tends to come in strange coincidences that swing things in the Order's favor, powerful artifacts from alien worlds and sometimes even direct blessings from nobility. Their current goal is the destruction of the Lazarus foundation, arguing they want to put everyone in jerkoff cubes or something and we probably shouldn't let them do that.

Behold, a funny hidden world

[vivid wraith]

oooooooh

[magic mason]

I feel like humans would have opinons on the affairs of Magisters Of Humanity

[vivid wraith]

Very likely yes

[magic mason]

so have Rulesong humans and Gamesong humans

[narrow tartan]

There is a bunch of tumblr posts that write up a bunch of homestuck aspects as magical skills

[obsidian dagger]

There's a variant of that AU hack aimed at running more typical chuubo's homestuck games for what it's worth.

[narrow tartan]

Anyone ever play a long necked person in Chuubo's

[narrow tartan]

Mhmm. Strategist abandoning an army over a hundred thousand strong along with thousands of artillery pieces in creation because they got distracted.

[fleet harbor]

Hm. Wildlord of Theater, Information, and Biology

[vivid wraith]

What's the angle?

[fleet harbor]

To some extent it’s just a vibe

To some extent they’re all systems that bring artificial order to the world around them

Which is oddly fitting for a Wildlord, I think

Imposing their own personal reality upon the World Ash

[vivid wraith]

i seeeeee

[fleet harbor]

I’m thinking about them as a character in my Strategist vs. Actual story concept

[narrow tartan]

Alucard Sunadori

The Vampire. I was skimming through the Chuubos book looking at main characters. And. He isn't one but he might have been one at some point in the writing process? Dunno

[narrow tartan]

https://retroactivebakeries.tumblr.com/tagged/glitch

The Nephilim at the bottom of the page are interesting. Children of Imperators who may not even realize they are miraculous as they unconciously shift the world around them. Style, Visage, Holy and Prophet

[candid compass]

The only vampire I can think of is some of the variants for Natalia

[narrow tartan]

Yeh. Basically. He appears in like one of the quote boxes and has a main character like name and title. It is a very silly quote.

Just stood out to me. Never would have noticed him if I thought to look in the index

[magic mason]

I created a group of "Minisplats" meant to be Ogdad level where they have gifts but not stats and that is where I put demons

[narrow tartan]

Nods makes sense.

[magic mason]

I gave them Flore and Wounded

Demons: Native inhabitants of hell who are living incarnations of the twisted love that hell offers with access to the Wounded Angel and Sentimental powersets.
Alices: Mortals tricked into strange, dying dream worlds and sustaining them at the cost of their sanity. They have access to Worldwalker and Gatecrasher powersets.
Haunts: Glitched revenants who managed to maintain enough of themselves to keep staggering on forward like some horrifyingly powerful ghosts, if your a PC one your probably trying to put yourself back together, rare case where strategist is a good ending. They have access to the Accursed and Become Somebody powersets.
Those Touched By Grace: When someone is held in the arms of an Angel, they change forever, become far too perfect to exist. They have access to the Persona and Prophet powersets.
Golden Apostles: A global organization of cultivators who follow the teachings of an ancient group of masters which allow you to ascend through perfection and purity which they use to fight against the Silver Apostates. They have access to the Ace and Holy powersets
Silver Apostates: A global organization of cultivators who follow the teachings of a strange abyssal being who whispered dark secrets to one of the founding masters of the Golden Apostles, They have access to the Cheat(which they all have a unique forbidden technique) and Creature Of Delirium Powersets.
Bleak Binders: Mortals who stand against the creatures of the void that infiltrate our reality, and turn them against their own kind, while using their mastery of sorcery to obliterate those who refuse to bow. They have access to the Gatekeeper and Chosen One Powersets.
Those who lurk Above: In the space above the earth, monsters dwell that devour the hopes of mankind. They have access to the Kaiju and Impresario powersets.

This was created for a hypothetical "playing far roofs in base nobilis" hence the naming conventions

oh I almost forgot

Lost: creatures from the depths of Ninuan who wandered into creation, their dreamlike nature causes the world to buckle beneath their presence. However they are pursued by correlative predators. They have access to the Creature Of Fable and Troubled Powersets.
Ogdad: Extremely powerful spirits of a very large concept that is not an estate in its own right. They hold great sway among their own kind. They have access to the Spiritual and Awakening powersets.
Grove: the intelligence behind an animate location, the mind itself usually taking the form of a cryptid type creature. They have access to the gardener and primordial power sets.
Trial Forged: A strange being confronted them and made them immortal. Forcing them into journeys and trials to prove themselves. All Trial forged strive against each other to prove themselves and be granted the afterlife their master promised them. They have access to the Allegory and Indomitable powersets.

[obsidian dagger]

so these are all liminal and have 2?

[narrow tartan]

Ooh neat.

[magic mason]

its designed for far roofs where you tend to have two basic powersets and might expand into others over time

[obsidian dagger]

Ah alright.

[narrow tartan]

I like the idea of their being more of a continuum of miraculous beings.

[narrow tartan]

The. Powers of a mimic game started last night. The four Nobilis and the two Deceivers have been ordered to make Philadelphia beautiful

After some strategizing we headed off. One Deceiver went off to go mess with a noble and set up an information network.

Two of the nobles went off and decided to troll a rival magic school which woll probably be useful eventually.

The rest of us got to work. Robin, the Power of Vacuum resurrected a local graveyard and polled the occupants. Lupe, my character, started using her level 9 aspect granted Street Straightening Strength to cause trouble. I ended up retouting a major road through the University of of Pennsylvania.

Resolving to resolve any ensuing traffic issues af a later date

[fleet harbor]

Robin felt it was important to hear the voices of one of Philly's largest and most underserved populations

Dead people

[vivid wraith]

you are so good at this

[magic mason]

Are Minecraft Bedrock deaths closer to Realizing The Truth or witnessing the glitch

[restive ridge]

Glitching imo

Especially because they are caused by fundamental flaws of the world

[narrow tartan]

Mhmm. The advantage of having stuff that can exist on a continuim of mundane to miraculous (ie having it so most Sky-Beasts are merely huge, a few have some gifts or other minor things, and maybe one or two have proper miraculous arcs) is that it allows the intro of just more random stuff without overcrowding the setting

[obsidian dagger]

Chise (the main character of The Ancient Magus'[sic] Bride) is such a Wounded Angel it's ridiculous.

[narrow tartan]

I once saw a miracle ladder for Deepness that I liked.

Badly described
0/1: I can't exactly remember. But one of them let you check to see if you are in an illusion. Or I guess for Deceivers if they were in a double illusion.
2: Miraculous social distancing/pushing people away.
3: The sort of signature withdraw from the world miracle
4: I think allowed you to mess around with your identity and the identities or other people you had enlightened.
5: I believe was messing around with metaphor and reality but in a somewhat limited way.
6: Claim an area in a way that aligns with your Estate Properties or the equivalent.
7: Enlighten others.
8: Prepare and design blessings that other people can draw upon or borrow from you

[narrow tartan]

Wounded shall now be known as Scars. Theft is to be known as Hustle. Vastness is now Black. Symbolic is now Green. Sealed is Affect. Flore is to be Florist. Prophet is Highness. Monstrous, Allegorical, and Symbolic shall be renamed. Wanderer and Dominion shall be tweaked.

(my random changes to match bizarre aesthetic desires)

(basically making each row of the chart have a naming thene)

Huh. Allegorical to Masked. Very different vibe but sort of fitting

Also. I like how. Randomly changing stuff sort of changes the vibes

[vivid wraith]

ooooooh

[narrow tartan]

Actually. I think ideally Persona would be Masked and Allegorical renamed to Persona

Or maybe Allegorical becomes Visage, Visage becomes Persona, and Persona becomes Masked

[grand knot]

My dolls

• Are cute
• Are durable (which I realize sounds like adorable)
• Include anyone who wants to be one

[narrow tartan]

Hee

[candid compass]

The Dolls belonging to WaxMask

[patent tiger]

You gotta put a little edge on it

Play in the implication-space

The Dolls That Cannot Escape WaxMask

F’rinstance

[narrow tartan]

The Dolls that Wax Mask has Collected

...belong to Wax Mask.
...cannot hide from Wax Mask.

[grand knot]

The horizon darkens, as if night has come upon noon
It is the cute doll swarm, coming upon the city

[reef perch]

the far roofs news: the 1.0 pdf is now available on backerkit, and a dtrpg release is soon

[narrow tartan]

Ooh. Soon I shall behold frog 🐸

[fleet harbor]

Nice

[grand knot]

The frog Grytorm saw

• Are everywhere
• Know many things

[fleet harbor]

Are frogs

[narrow tartan]

No. Strangely they are not frogs

[fleet harbor]

Closely resemble frogs

[vivid wraith]

Over the Garden Wall is a Far Roofs campaign i think

[narrow tartan]

Nods huh.

[fleet harbor]

Yeah it is

Also a very good show

Another one from an Adventure Time alum

(AT is absolutely Chuubo’s)

[obsidian dagger]

Oh yeah I have so much written up on exactly that (ie. region properties for many regions, and my best guesses at some stats)

[restive ridge]

Hmmmm

Im tempted to say its Chuubo but I see your vision

[grand knot]

I love tge Beast's song in over tge garden wall

[obsidian dagger]

just remembered this pState idea I had, and now in retrospect it occurs to me that this is a character who has the ability to take a person (or possibly thing) and deside to simply stop feeling any affection for them by casting them out.

[grand knot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKB0_TlWNqc

[fleet harbor]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/dCQSX5UKvFo

[vivid wraith]

so true

[narrow tartan]

Mhmm. Allegory seems dense

Like a lot of stuff to fit into a ladder

[restive ridge]

I luv Allegory, especially cause of that

[frank light]

allegory is really cool

from what ive seen the powerset isnt necessarily more complicated than many others

[vivid wraith]

Nobilis' Library of Congress call number is GV 1469 .62 .N63

[frank light]

YOOOO

[fleet harbor]

Is it? When I search by that call number it doesn't come up

The surrounding call numbers indicate that it would probably be an appropriate one for it, but

I can't find it in the catalog

[vivid wraith]

http://loc.gov/aba/publications/FreeLCSH/N.pdf

subject heading doc

Ctrl-F "Nobilis"

[obsidian dagger]

Finn from Adventure Time is an Allegory. I think N might be taking his first arc of it in Pokemon Black 2/White 2. I'm trying to think of others.

Sun Wukong probably has a bit of Allegory in there as I understand it?

[frank light]

does Finn have allegory?

he doesnt exactly have traits of bringing the world to life or somehow being there fableistically for multiple even-oh no i suppose that did happen once or twice

yeah if you count past lives

[obsidian dagger]

Yeah, with past lives especially, but he still has Incidentally Been At a lot of stuff too. Separately, regarding bringing the world to life around him:

1. A lot of stuff doesn't look like it's being brought to life in-universe, but rather, being revealed to always have had some degree of sapience or understanding; and,
2. NEPTR.

He doesn't do it a ton, but it's still happening often enough.

Think about how much random stuff in Adventure Time is somehow randomly able to talk or communicate or act or emote. I wouldn't be surprised if, in the notional chuubo's game being described, some of those were animated OOC by Finn's player, even if IC Finn didn't do anything to animate them.

[narrow tartan]

Its not about complication its about just how many different things want to be in a ladder?

Like I worked out a ladder for monstrous once. And it was crowded

[magic mason]

tbf, you need like.... 9-18 distinct effects for a miracle ladder

most Arcs pick up new abilities/have quest miracles turned into miracles on transition to 4e

[narrow tartan]

I couldn't find room in it for Seize the Intangible until I cut the automatic version of their sensory power

[fleet harbor]

Ah, okay, so that's the subject heading, but the actual catalog doesn't have anything

Sadly

[magic mason]

I feel like you would probably fold sieze the intangile into another power

[fleet harbor]

Nobilis is not preserved by the Library of Congress

[magic mason]

for a miracle ladder

[vivid wraith]

we will make them

[fleet harbor]

Clearly I have to get a job with the LoC and fix this

[narrow tartan]

The ladder I came up with was.
0 Cautioning (Greater cautioning gets paralyzing fear)
1 Keeness
2 Stunt (advanced techniques?)
3 Inconspicuous
4 Tribulation
5 Indomitable
6 Purification
7 Casting
8 Forging (mechanically I imagined it similar to Divine Plan from Flore)

And I think some stuff probably missing

[patent tiger]

Having some very normal moments in Nobilis tonight

[obsidian dagger]

Fun fact: "the world takes a Wound" is, in fact, more or less exactly what Breaks from Reality are in Chuubo's, and are a core part of how Actuals function.

[patent tiger]

Yeah, which is fitting, 'cause this Noble in question is very Actual-coded

[frank light]

A swan appeared

[narrow tartan]

Nods. Harmony wants to bind it to her will

[narrow tartan]

I once had an idea for a bunch of Arcana for a Strategist but never figured out what they looked.

Specifically. Strategist with weird body part arcana (hands, eyes, things made of odd collections of bits)

Specifically. Finger Guns, Firearms, and Hand Cannons.

[frank light]

Lmaooo

[frank light]

so

i may

be

attempting a

deltarune themed chuubos thing at some point

wanted to gauge uh
interest in here

[vivid wraith]

wooooooo

[frank light]

stepnix
you

are you
interested

grabs u

[vivid wraith]

yes!!!

[frank light]

YEAHHHH

[restive ridge]

WOOO

Go girl

Go Rune those deltas

[frank light]

Yessss

[gloomy oasis]

I'm interested.

[frank light]

I see

Any deltarune or chuubos knowledge?

Neither are necessary I’m just curious

[narrow tartan]

Changing runes

[gloomy oasis]

I have all the Deltarune knowledge, but no Chuubo's.

[restive ridge]

I have approximate knowledge of both

[frank light]

Perfect lmao

[narrow tartan]

I have preordered froofs but not looked at it

What is Memetic?

[vivid wraith]

Memetic is Persona in Nobilis/Glitch

except, isolated from the divine estate stuff, it's less "become more like my element" and more "become part of my story"

[narrow tartan]

Sure cool

[obsidian dagger]

what are elements, if not stories the world likes?

[frank light]

lol

i do enjoy each of the "estate" stats and how weird they get without a regular estate

Lore Spheres in nobilis are either an angel's ability to work with their estate in creation or a strategist's pstate in the void

all the mystic arcs have some ominous principle they embody, though deepness seems to be the least explicit

all knight arcs have some story theyre about, usually the story being about or including the estate for those who are imperators or nobilis and in the case of excrucians their story is weirder
(and Actuals having a weird Story as well)

Green arcs...are pretty basic but also just like, explicit. the element they embody is deeply physical or at least explicitly manifested

uhhhh lets see what am I missing.

am i?

[obsidian dagger]

Deepness has you be the principle, to some extent. It's about some profound principle of reality which we wouldn't recognize as one but which infects and asserts its relevance.

[still blaze]

I hear there's some kind of 4th edition of Nobilis on the way?

Can't find much info about it, though

[vivid wraith]

It's in playtest

Glitch is kind of a preview for it

[still blaze]

Anything cool in it? I've only played 2e and it was great

[vivid wraith]

I've only seen bits and pieces of 4e

but Glitch is really really cool

you play as retired(-ish) Excrucians

[still blaze]

Ah yeah I know about the system, didn't know it was kinda Nobilis-4E preview

Might check it out

[vivid wraith]

Rites of Place are gonna be a thing in 4e
https://www.ninuan.org/blog/nobilis-4th-edition-rites-of-place

[still blaze]

Oh there's a dev blog thing

Thanks

[frank light]

this is true!

the second self is closer to a physical embodiment of the principle

but mechanically Principle isnt as much of a keyword in there

you i guess dont bring it about or serve it

but you sorta just are it
so you dont need to have it as a keyword

[vivid wraith]

https://x.com/orchidcamp/status/1839537455344840708

ELLΛ MΛCHINΛ (@orchidcamp) on X

yes . im on the enchanted lake. uh huh {switching phone to other ear } its really clear silver water . And the fishes are delicate hope creatures

Twitter · Sep 27, 2024, 5:28 AM

[narrow tartan]

If a Warmain with Superior Wind Spirit wanted to call down chunks of the Glassy Medium how would they do it?

Hmm. Should the glassy medium be hefty?

[frank light]

Hhhow do you mean

[narrow tartan]

Just overthinking stuff. So in the Superior Wind Spirit skill it talks about. The sky having a solid layer? I didnt think too far about the exact logistical reality of this factoid

Thinking about it more Superior Wind Spirit plus Monstrance should be able to plausibly weaponize it.

And do gross manipulations

Hmm maybe abhorrent weapons should have Monstrous

[narrow tartan]

"Between the lower world and the upper world there was a glassy medium.... Across the medium blew the wind spirits, shaping it and reshaping it according to their whims and plans." (CMWGE pg. 286)

[narrow tartan]

I remember something about Shoujo eating star beasts? But I am bad at discord searching

And I really want to see it again

[frank light]

wild

[candid compass]

it's in 3e I think?

[narrow tartan]

TY

[narrow tartan]

Warmain Build. Monstrous 7, Immortal, Glorious, Ability 1

[restive ridge]

I think I am the only person whose interests intersect at this exact point

[magic mason]

Question I asked on Ninuan but am curious about takes

What would your strategist look like as a Haunt, like if their Bane got them but they stuck around the world as a non sapient super ghost who spreads their bane like a plague

[fleet harbor]

I do not have a Glitch game but I would like to play El-Ahrairah As A Strategist in one, Dying of Hunting or maybe Dying of Extinction

I think if he became a haunt he would become a twisted force of mass-extinction

The ecosystem twisted and overburdened by his presence

A monster that specifically went after keystone organisms

[magic mason]

very good, very good

[obsidian dagger]

...numb?

[vivid wraith]

homebrew arcs babyyyyy

[obsidian dagger]

Oh, I wasn't sure if it was a Froofs thing and my understanding of the immortal/frantic/sickly trichotomy had to be discarded and rebuilt.

[magic mason]

working on a homebrew arc column, haven't posted about them here much

[magic mason]

Basically they are a set of arcs meant to slot in for Narrative roles the main arcs can't quite fill. often because they are "Side Charecter coded"

• Characters who's power isn't entirely theirs
• Characters who fade into the background easily

the main one I am working on right now is Numb Orange: Chained which is for Warlocks, Paladins and (Dragon TV Tropes), but more generally represents people who defined their whole self around someone or something else.

[obsidian dagger]

Oh, interesting.

[magic mason]

but we also have arcs like Numb Black, Princess, where you are on that princess Zelda shit
or Numb Red, Creature Of Darkness, which is about being a Lemony Snicket or Cheshire cat type figure who influences the world but is mostly an audience
or Numb Blue, Fulcrum, where you are someone who changed the world and then it sorta... got away from you. Think Pmoon Corporation CEOs or Laurence from Bloodborne

Mechanically its a Sickly variant, but based around the Isolation issue instead of the Sickness issue

Allowing you to take the Slice Of Life and Shared Action xp actions regardless of the genre

[obsidian dagger]

Interesting. Should Numb Black be renamed to Vessel? ...and narratively, I do think that is a separate niche, which was left open on the assumption that PCs wouldn't normally be playing it, but I'm still intrigued.

[magic mason]

So the thing with Numb Black is that it has both an Element and Principle like primordial, but the Element belongs to a “Kingdom” you have a relationship with and the principle is something about You

Hence the princess Zelda comparison. Kingdom of light, but representing the triforce of wisdom

You don’t actually have control of the kingdom, your a princess after all, not a queen, but you have a deep relationship with it

[obsidian dagger]

I was thinking "vessel" because you were carrying the Element and Principle rather than leading it.

[magic mason]

That is fair, but I feel like evoking the imagery of a fairy tale princess hits harder narratively and establishes a tone

Its glitch stat name is Idol

@wheat cobalt came up with it

[obsidian dagger]

fair. I was just unsure about the gendered implications.

[magic mason]

Consider: he/him princess goes really hard

I’ve always been a huge fan of Prince-Consort as a Royal title

[obsidian dagger]

I respect that.

[magic mason]

A lot of the planned abilities also play way more in the Narrative Powers Of A Princess than the types of stuff you would see a Vessel doing

Like declaring people blessed champions of their kingdom

Or being a well of power that other people can extract for their own ends(encouraging kidnapping rather than killing you)

[narrow tartan]

It will be interesting to see Creature of the Dark because I have seen an Arc with the same name. And. At least some overlapping theatrical themes.

[obsidian dagger]

I mean, Red has always been theatrical to some extent. The Creature of the Light does literally get to have a spotlight on them.

[narrow tartan]

Nods nods. Mhmm

[candid compass]

they are Storyteller arcs for a reason 😛

[narrow tartan]

What numb arc is tom bombadil on?

Also. The silly thing to do with additional miraculous arcs is come up with new miraculous beings

[magic mason]

I have been pondering some

[magic mason]

Creature of Darkness could work with some Allegory

[magic mason]

I was thinking about interdimensional merchants who peddle weird, reddit CYOA pills and shit

Fulcrum(Numb Blue)
Corpus(Numb Purple)
Architect
Wanderer

these fucking guys

[fleet harbor]

If I take the Tesla pill do I also get the Tesla's difficulty translating my ideas into implementable form and general lack of social competence?

[magic mason]

No Idea

[vivid wraith]

"only" four hours a day

[fleet harbor]

(I am making fun of it)

[narrow tartan]

Interesting. Corpus, possibly being the source of treasures? Fulcrum. Dunno.

[magic mason]

I was going the Fallen route where all of the stats would do Their Thing, at least to some extent, but in diffrent ways

Besides Architect though you could probably loan people minons with it or restructure their fate

[narrow tartan]

Got out of a murder mystery play. But plot idea. Sttategist gets caught up in a agatha cristie type murder mystery. As the victim. Mostly they find getting shot to be annoying

[obsidian dagger]

...tempted to actually save this as "Gatekeeper.png" (or whatever image format) because it's just... yup, that's Gatekeeper in a nutshell.

[magic mason]

Yeeah

[magic mason]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vej2mhOMmlcYZhupRetECQK6NEl97nCBCSlOueJdrvA/edit?usp=sharing
I am not sure who all to ping, but the first Numb Arc is done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@narrow tartan and @restive ridge minimum I think

[narrow tartan]

Very neat!

[magic mason]

I went as hard as I could

I wrote funny little examples even

[narrow tartan]

Very important

[magic mason]

I hope you like it

[obsidian dagger]

so, quick question: your Failing stops you from "living up to what your Master sees in you or wants you to be". How does that work if your Master is "your longing for your dead wife"?

[magic mason]

It would manifest as like

“Wanting to move on with my life”
Or
“Being unable to do what it takes(with an implicit to get her back)”

[obsidian dagger]

Fair. But that's not really what someone else wants out of you... I guess it kind of is, if your master is "the memory of my dead wife" rather than the longing feeling explicitly?

[magic mason]

Yeah that is probably a better way to phrase it

There you go

[obsidian dagger]

Also: I'm assuming that you can't target Vicarious Excision at yourself? If so, you should probably explicitly state that.

[magic mason]

Oh yeah thank you

[obsidian dagger]

Cataclysmic Introspection does not feel like it should be 0MP, although maybe I ought to cross-reference similar powers in terms of cost. But overwriting regional properties definitely feels like it should take at least a little miraculous oomph.

[magic mason]

That is very fair actually

That 0mp cost was from when it was mandatory to take a deadly

[obsidian dagger]

Even then, it feels like you'd need MP to fight against the world, regardless of how much of yourself you expend in doing so.

[magic mason]

Gonna make it cost like… 3

[obsidian dagger]

Your Wish Is My Command... here's a quote from the Gatekeeper's Decree:

At Arc 2, there’s an implicit try your best to—this functions as a wish,
“I wish you’d try your best to fulfill my command.”

Arc 5. You may command the Other to do things it’s not actually capable of; this functions as a wish,
“I wish you’d fulfill my command.”
Which of these fits? The second would be significantly stronger than the first, and makes more sense conceptually, but maybe should be more clearly stated? Although I'm not sure if/how that needs to be clarified.

[magic mason]

The Latter, I was hoping the examples would help clarify that

Using the fact you are kind to make it stop raining, or breaking the seals on an ancient evil

[obsidian dagger]

Yeah, I'm not sure if this is actually a problem at all.

[magic mason]

The goal was basically a “reverse” Wish from Sentimental

[obsidian dagger]

Liberation is... weird. It seems odd that an activatable power would "permanently" alter a character, barring further "permanent" alterations. It's not inherently wrong, but... what else does Chained get at arc 5?

[magic mason]

All of their other stuff increases as usual, 2MP your wish is my command

(So 5 sealed promises and the ability to gain Superior Skill 5s)

[obsidian dagger]

alright, fair. It just... something about Liberation feels odd. I almost wonder if it should be more temporary, and be used as a skill to allow a superb servant to briefly act independently, rather than as a way to rip away the core concept of the arc?

[magic mason]

That is fair…. I guess it also felt odd to not give you an ability that helps address the weird unhealthyness to the whole dynamic, and I felt it was narratively satisfying

[obsidian dagger]

Also, one case which Chained should handle well already but which I'd like to interrogate/investigate a bit more: situations where the Master doesn't like the Chained character. Like if the Chained character is dedicated to helping an evil king take over the land, only that evil king has decided they'd really rather retire and start trying to be good and not trample their enemies.

or trying to live up to a great warrior, when that great warrior is themself profoundly ashamed of all the violence they've done and think it's awful.

[magic mason]

That is fun and should work

I just never thought of that one

So I didn’t provide any examples

But it should work

[obsidian dagger]

...here's an important question, actually: I don't remember where exactly, but somewhere Moran talked about an assumption that every arc barring exactly Wounded Angel 1 and Accursed 2 maybe was supposed to be, on the whole, good for the person taking it. That was just a default assumption. Are you running with that general assumption for Numb arcs?

[magic mason]

hand wiggle not exactly,
I honestly am channeling a lot of angst into this shit, I am full of unfathomably toxic juice, so a lot of these powers are kinda sad or toxic

I don't think its inherently bad to do, gamers love to have an awful time

[vivid wraith]

library nobilis get........

[magic mason]

holy shit

[obsidian dagger]

oh nonono, I mean... is it good for the character? Have they reached a better place in life after taking another arc?

[magic mason]

I was trying to end on a positive note with liberation but overall its a bit... questionable

I am not really running with it as a default assumption, if only because, as mentioned above, I am so full of angst and sorrow and toxicity I can't help it
you are definitely moving, but sometimes shit gets worse before it gets better

[obsidian dagger]

While I don't disagree, generally, I think that the sort of in-baked assumption is that things get worse during the course of the arc, and then get better once the arc level finishes, because keep in mind that each of those levels is 3+ major story quests.

[narrow tartan]

Looking at the arc now. It is fun. Vicarious Excision is interesting storywise because. Just that if you use it on the masters other minions you will be the only one who feels doubt

[frank light]

I do like chained as something that is overall…strange for you to be a part of

Wyrd/accursed is one of my favorites
And it’s…just a rough time

[magic mason]

Yep! 100% the intent

[magic mason]

alright chat

Blue, Black or Red

[narrow tartan]

Red! Because. My weird yordle inspired Imperators would have Creature of Darkness.

[magic mason]

alright after some polling
we going blue

and then red

and then black

[obsidian dagger]

Thinking about playing a vampire with Awakening, although I guess then you'd be playing "vampirism, as exemplefied by this particular vampire" then instead. It's a bit more prosaic than typical sorts of Awakening that I tend towards, but extremely reasonable.

[magic mason]

Elaborate, this seems interesting

[narrow tartan]

I have successfully named an OC Warmain. Her name is Scissors

When she takes the time to explain it turns out to be Skiscer

[vivid wraith]

amazing

[narrow tartan]

I am having a hard time naming jer test. Because I want it to be in the format of "the teat of [blank]" but it seems like a lot of words need a the, or a being, added

She seeks visionaries and leaders. And is associated with chaos and confusion

And storms, and winds

[narrow tartan]

And. I dont want to tack an -ess to the end of another word for some reason

I am probably being. Too particular about this

I should maybe refine how she actually tests people

[fleet harbor]

“Warmainess” is perhaps the single most cursed word I can imagine

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. Test of Storms works okay. And includes both natural and metaphorical storms

[narrow tartan]

Prometheans from New World of Darkness might have Wyrd.

[vivid wraith]

How so?

[narrow tartan]

Mhmm. Mostly they have the chased/alienated from the world thing.

But don't go all in on it

[magic mason]

I think that is actually an Eide thing

Wyrd is about how it kills you, and how you are torn away from the world and then come back

Eide is for if your running/hiding/otherwise evading

[narrow tartan]

Huh. Really need to reread Eide. And the Chuubo's equivalent

[magic mason]

The Agony miracle, where your infection can never be stopped, and who’s greater version makes your bane show up

Is Eide, rather than Wyrd

And the Chuubo’s version is called “troubled”

[narrow tartan]

Nods yeah. Thematically that part of Eide never clicked for me. I focused more on the Dream-of-the-Self stuff

[restive ridge]

I feel like Prometheans are absolutely killed by their Disquiet enough to have Wyrd and prob also Eide

[magic mason]

I think of the silver arcs as all in dialogue with their curse

Monstrous rises above their curse, they rise indomitable
Eide runs, they hide, they trick their way around it just barely
Wyrd, it hurts them, it kills them, and the fight and the bite and they rip it apart and they still fucking lose in the end

So Wyrd+Eide at the same time is a big reason strategists are… like that

[magic mason]

My thought was that Promethans are like… Mimic stats

With wounded+Eide representing disquiet

Maybe something else instead of theft

[restive ridge]

They prob have a Red or Golden imo

[magic mason]

I’m not sure what to give them red/gold wise.

Maybe sealed alchemy bullshit?

[fleet harbor]

FWIW Prometheans have a certain amount of strategist coding what with blighting everything they touch

[narrow tartan]

Arcana I came up with for the mummy strategist

-Chariot drawn by pards (animals that supposedly existed)
-Shield that depicts a battlefield. Soldiers can stab out of it

-Shade of blue that is as durable as stone

-The Book of Riding Forth by Night. Very powerful book of spells related to the Excrucians. Does not actually have it available

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. Never played Celeste. Probably should. But. I remember Prokopetz pointing out that Madeline gets chased down a mountain by three different ghosts. And none of them have anything to do with eachother.

What Arc would make someone chased by ghosts? In a profuctive manner

[vivid wraith]

Sounds like Bindings?

or maybe Otherworldly

[narrow tartan]

Interesting. Could also be a really specific failing for allegorical

I think

[obsidian dagger]

I mean, it could be tons of things. It could even be Primordial, where your "limbs" are ghosts that conspicuously chase you.

It isn't, but that's still possible.

[obsidian dagger]

I have no idea why you posted this here, but at the same time, that's totally thematically appropriate to post here.

[vivid wraith]

||I was reading Chuubo's and reached the Blackmailing Your Dog Into Learning Martial Arts sample quest, so i made this||

[obsidian dagger]

I forgot that existed.

[vivid wraith]

same it was a beautiful reminder

[narrow tartan]

Seinfeld's Seinfield...
...is a show about Seinfield.

...is about nothing.

[vivid wraith]

...isn't funny any more

[narrow tartan]

I am unfortunately insufficiently faniliar with Seinfield to fill this out more.

But i like it

[frank light]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1185821951927779409/1291231153008676895/image.webp?ex=66ff5838&is=66fe06b8&hm=30dd75625e37697c59297e4fa1d1de4c9ff25820e93092cf76922c00a0af1a00&=&animated=true&width=1104&height=1108

[fleet harbor]

This implies that Seinfeld of Seinfeld's Seinfeld is nothing

[fleet harbor]

Zombies ...
... are dead.
... are not dead.
... contain nothing of what they once were.
... hunger for the flesh of the living.
... turn you into one of them.
... shamble slowly.
... have endless hordes.

[vivid wraith]

persona miracle that kills you

[candid compass]

those properties are another flower rite magnet

[vivid wraith]

i'd say they read like an Actual, self-pstate

[fleet harbor]

If you wanted to optimize you'd replace "are not dead" with "can still move" but c'mon you should be nice to the HG

[narrow tartan]

When you think about it. True gods have the most sane ideology

If a human had that perspective it would be unhinged but for a vast tentacle monster whose flesh is the world it is pretty understandable

[vivid wraith]

just vibin'

[fleet harbor]

If you were the cosmic equivalent of bacteria, you would have that ideology too

[restive ridge]

Hmmm

[patent tiger]

Gonna be honest, I think this is a bit over the line

[frank light]

Yeah that’s fair

[fleet harbor]

I do think the bacterial analogy is useful because bacteria do a lot of weird stuff

They divide, leaving identical copies of an original, but they also swap DNA and eat each other and fight and coalesce into larger organisms which then break apart and they do all of this blindly crawling through the substrate of the world

Also they are that substrate

[frank light]

Yea

It’s not a bad way of looking at it

[fleet harbor]

Bacteria are geologically significant on a scale which is kinda mind-boggling

[frank light]

They’re very much like amoeba or bacteria or like entire micro ecosystems that live beneath our view

In fact isn’t the existence of in animated life becoming animated in history how humans see the deep mythic?
Like seeing amoeba and bacteria form from simple chemicals is how it got filtered into the prosaic

[fleet harbor]

Not sure but it sounds good!

[frank light]

One sec

[fleet harbor]

I mean hell I think I’ve heard that up to 1/3 of human body weight is composed of the microbiome

[frank light]

I think that sounds right

We have a lot of microbiomes

We have like so many ecosystems hitching a ride on our body

[fleet harbor]

Or that are integral components of it

[frank light]

Yeah

I say hitching a ride

They provide tons of nutrients

And functions

And help

We even have our own viral ecosystems

Keeping bacterial populations regulated

[fleet harbor]

Which is such a weird thought, right? That there are entire ecosystems that have developed in and around multicellular organisms for so long that they are entirely adapted for a commensalist role?

[frank light]

Yea

I wanted to do a game about that one time

I called it dark souls osmosis jones

[fleet harbor]

And that multicellular life has delegated tasks to them?

[frank light]

It was meant to be a blame-esque game where you play as various cellular life inside a human body

But the human body was like, a giant horrifying megastructure

[frank light]

Yeah

[fleet harbor]

Oh, did I ever tell you about my parasites in the corpse of god idea?

[frank light]

It’s wild

Oh do share

[fleet harbor]

The notion is that there’s some sort of cyborg being, equal parts flesh and machine, and it’s dead now

Rotting on the seafloor, a whalefall

And everything is set inside of it

[frank light]

Yea!!!

I made fungus spanish conquistadors or something

[fleet harbor]

The characters are the microbiome trying to survive in a world that is dead

[frank light]

With a tree of life

[fleet harbor]

While vast beings from beyond reality slowly chew at its borders

[frank light]

Yeah

[fleet harbor]

(The various seafloor scavengers)

[frank light]

Yeah…

[fleet harbor]

And like, because it’s cybernetic as well, there’s some weird shit going on with parts of its body, and potentially nanomachine characters

[magic mason]

Prion’s were in a spy thriller iirc

[frank light]

Yeah

Nanite disease was gonna be the more fantastical angle but they’re fucking hyper religious space marines who know about the nature of the body

Viruses were slimes

Slimegirl

[fleet harbor]

I’m not even sure what the metaphor would be in this case, I just have sorta a vague concept

Oh but I do envision it as like … tunnel world?

So yeah like Blame I guess

[frank light]

Hell yes

I think Blame is a good aesthetic

For this kind of thing

[magic mason]

weren't the bacteria gonna be derpy little fucks

[frank light]

Shapeshifty little freaks

Full of teeth and spines and very silly

Acrid type creatures

[magic mason]

https://tenor.com/view/acrid-groovin-gif-27539737

Behold

the common cold

[narrow tartan]

Still at work. Will reread this conversation ahen I'm done

But one idea I had, I talked about it with Karen, were Imperator's with Wyrd sort of inspired by Whalefall.

Vastness, Wyrd, Symbolic, and something else.

Their Antimood represented what they would be when they finished dying

Originally i was imagining them with a more energetic fourth arc but something like a numb arc would be better. Maybe fulcrum

https://retroactivebakeries.tumblr.com/post/137131497446/coluring-i-used-to-think-the-brain-was-the-most

Somethig relevant

[vivid wraith]

Kaleidoscopic Pineal Dracula is my favorite 80s anime OVA

[narrow tartan]

Honestly those make me think of Exalted Third Circle Demons. I think I have it saved in my Exalted Bookmarks Folder

[tall jolt]

Noble of the Concept of "Hey, shitass"
... Comes before something violent
... Is funny
... Is weirdly insulting

Not sure of any other definitions lol

[obsidian dagger]

...crap this makes me want to share a thing it reminds me of but explaining why it reminds me of that thing would be a spoiler for it.

[narrow tartan]

Magister of the Rule, possibly of Terraforming or Space Colonies, investing in offworld real estate incase things go terribly wrong on Earth

Elevators

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. Coming up with Imperators via free associating out a couple of steps

[vivid wraith]

genuinely that's like the best way

[narrow tartan]

Hmm. The foreign imperator (the Wyrd/Vastness/Symbolic/Fulcrum) dying of Algael Blooms.
Imperator of Saltpeter, Second-Winds, Carbon Monoxide, and Stirges (the D&D monster)

[vivid wraith]

niiiiiice

[narrow tartan]

Nods. What qualifies something as a Magister?

Just is there a thematic connection between the Light, the Dark, and the Wild? Or did it just sound cool?

[vivid wraith]

i think it just sounds cool

i guess they're the three non-Angel factions that have a "song" but

i suspect it's a language quirk from not having good existing nouns for them

[candid compass]

Magisters seem to be the world specific Imperators
though Wild scuppers that a little

but we know for example that on Dionyl there are Magisters of Domination and Splintering

[vivid wraith]

we know what an angel is, we know what a serpent is, but Light isn't like, a creature, it's a thematic space

so you use "lightlord" or "magister of the light" to express "this is a creature"

[narrow tartan]

Nods. Hmm. Words.

[vivid wraith]

i could easily imagine angels and fallen getting referred to as Celestial Magister and Infernal Magister to preserve the pattern, but we know what to call a guy with a halo so

i should make a serpent oc

[undone flame]

what do you mean wanting to hang out and fuck which is also eating people isn't a sane ideology

[narrow tartan]

Is an Imperator has Symbolic/Primordial does their Element have to be cleanly associated with an Estate or can it be something broader (possibly stratying from the strict bounds of the estates)

[vivid wraith]

an imperator.... probably
anyone else with the stat, probably not

[magic mason]

A fun thing I have seen people suggest is that they have All Of Their Estates when they have an estate based thing

[obsidian dagger]

?

[magic mason]

Traditionally in Nobilis Imperators have several associated Elements/Estates

Like you will have the Angel of Fire, Cheese and Starfish

[vivid wraith]

oh yeah probably

[narrow tartan]

The dying whalefall Imperator (qlippoth?) I came up with is dying of algeal blooms and has Second-Winds, Carbon Monoxide, Saltpetre, and Stirges. And just thinking about the primordial element. Thinking about it. Probably tie it to loosely to the Carbon Monoxide

With fuzzier edges than strict carbon monoxide

[vivid wraith]

excellent

[narrow tartan]

When brainstorming variant stuff I tend to default to pokemon types

[tall jolt]

Shit man, I'd love to play Carbon Monoxide Noble

[narrow tartan]

I kind of imagine Imperial Humanity as very nested. And not all the bits would be full Imperators

Like each of us would be a part of many humans who would correspond to each community we are a part of

[tall jolt]

How would you define that

I know one would be like ... Kills you if you breathe it in/Is toxic

... is a gas

[fleet harbor]

I kind of imagine an imperial human as having each individual cell in their body awakened to individual consciousness

The eukaryotic equivalent to the prokaryotic True Gods

Aware of their nature as a chorus of trillions of voices

[frank light]

Ah man I’m excited to do miraculous chuubos

For deltarune we’re doing techno gaming as I’m planning to take advantage of Rituals for battles

“You’re in a bullet hell where dressing up in costumes and unbanning the enemy from free hand sandwich day is the reasonable way to end this” is

Perfect for a ritual

[narrow tartan]

I wonder how much nobles perceive aspect to be actual miracles

[vivid wraith]

maybe they forget that humans can't do that

[narrow tartan]

There was discussion about how Powers view Strategists and the fact that it might seem like Strategists are only capable of deatruction

And how Powers might credit the capacity of Strategists to their stuff or skill

And like that is sort of true. But their skill still has miraculous backing

Even if it is sort of mundane

[vivid wraith]

iiiiinteresting

[frank light]

I do headcanon that for many miracles

It’s not like you conceptualize it as a discrete miracle

Like Doing Wyrd 4 destruxtion

You don’t view it as “ah I’m using the destruction ability in my powerset”
It’s just…something you can do

And aspect feels similar

You just…push harder