#Jenna Moran Games (Nobilis, Chuubo's, Glitch, WTF)

1 messages Ā· Page 8 of 1

tall jolt
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"Yeah you know all those things you took into yourself?"

patent tiger
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A Warmain who tests for a property, and Creation has an Estate of that property, but not in the way the Warmain cares about

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Probably pisses 'em off!

tall jolt
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"Now they aren't part of you again."

fleet harbor
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Power of Disappointment

patent tiger
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Like, yes, Creation has an Estate of Pink, but it's not the pink that matters

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This is a joke of a pink

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How dare you

candid compass
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yeah the truthfulness of Creation is beside the point
the point is that existing is wrong
things should not be built this way

patent tiger
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And Mimics are an easy bet because you know they have so many issues regarding sense-of-self and personal existence and they've got some fucked up Estates right there

fleet harbor
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I still like void as an estate for making the warhost angry

patent tiger
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Yeah, that was an inspired choice

tall jolt
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Its a great idea yes

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Well, probably not to exist as lol

frank light
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Strategists also have I think some solid links to angels.

At least in that they both share Lore

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And also with angels possibly being made from the flesh bits of a giant void being

vivid wraith
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who isn't tbh

frank light
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Angels have a lot to deal with when it comes to excrucians what with their sky opening directly to ninuan and the eternal siege

frank light
tall jolt
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close ya damn skys before you deny human souls šŸ˜­

frank light
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hey they didnt build narsinha

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or wrap her skin around the ash

undone flame
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The sexual tension between the Excrusians and the Noble of Non-Existence

patent tiger
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gkā€™s playing a Power of Void with a very similar dynamic, yeah

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Itā€™s funny to make Estates specifically to piss enemies off

undone flame
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"Whatcha gonna do? Make me not exist?"

tumblr_7819d8db45094b7733ab45d5697e73fd_0363588d_2048.jpg
frank light
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Itā€™s great cus it applies to either

undone flame
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Actually just realized something

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average Nobilis conflict

frank light
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Strategist miracle Strategy at level 6 ā€œI will win this card gameā€
Vs noble miracle greater perfection at level 9

candid compass
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I'm not sure if perfect timing will help you in a card game necessarily

vivid wraith
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you have exactly the right card at exactly the right time

frank light
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Greater perfection turns it into an unopposable mundane action

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Kinda like greater ignition

magic mason
fleet harbor
magic mason
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Chat gpt vs stockfish is Sealed vs Aspect

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Spectator:ā€His powerset is broken, the fight is unfairā€
The Ace: ā€œUnfairā€¦ for themā€

vivid wraith
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do you have the video for that one

magic mason
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Stockfish really has the indomitable human spirit in this one

candid compass
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the tactical deepstrike Rook is always my favorite

vivid wraith
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thank

magic mason
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Like Chatgpt is a cosmic sorcerer who loses to a seemingly mundane but incredibly skilled combatant who acts tactfully and exploits its hubris

magic mason
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so yall ive been going insane for the past hour
researching
jungian archetypes and psychological roles and shit
and their implications
on certain splats

obsidian dagger
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Oh I love when that kind of thing happens, do share

magic mason
# obsidian dagger Oh I *love* when that kind of thing happens, do share

I am not sure how The Serpents would be connected with the Hero/Savior archetype

Fallen being connected to the mother makes perfect sense if you remember Lilith, The Gorgon and Fairy Tale Witches are Mother Archetype

Angel's being Osiris has a lot of really weird and interesting implications, especially on their relatonship with the Fallen(Since Fallen are Mothers and both Osiris and Persephone were rescued by a Mother Archetype person).

I feel like the stuff going on with the Magisters is just text

True Gods being Immanence makes a lot of sense now that I looked up what that means as a formal term

obsidian dagger
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now I need to learn more about Jungian archetypes

vivid wraith
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it's like classpects for Swiss psychiatrists

frank light
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Fuck

obsidian dagger
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Wow! I don't know how to react to that phrase.

fleet harbor
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Itā€™s true tho

magic mason
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What is a good media touchstone for actuals

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Like the closest I can think of that hits most of the vibes is likeā€¦ the Ink machine from bendy and the ink machine

ā€œWorld corruptionsā€ like you see in terraria and some Minecraft mods also kinda work but they donā€™t have that ā€œborn of hubrisā€ aspect

fleet harbor
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The Villages in Florida

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Wait that's real life not media

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In terms of media, though -- zombie stuff and cults are the really easy examples

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Because the fundamental characteristic of an actual is that it makes other things part of itself

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In Chuubo's there's a bully at School who's an Actual

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Because he makes people into his victims as their overriding personal characteristic

magic mason
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Yeah but Actuals also
A: arenā€™t really people
And
B: are born of hubris

So Iā€™m trying to think of things that hit all of those

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I guess a lot of zombie infections do fit that though

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Resident evil zombies especially

fleet harbor
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I think you can also find a lot of good real-life touchstones if you look at impersonal systems that scoop up and absorb everything they touch

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Big corporations can have Actual vibes

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Especially since often no particular human being has meaningful control over their behavior

frank light
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Thatā€™s true as well

fleet harbor
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You could also liken them to ... prion infections?

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In fact the metaphor there is nearly 1-to-1

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Clusters of protein shards that convert other proteins into themselves

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Typically passed from one organism to another by eating infected neurological tissue

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(i.e. cannibalism)

obsidian dagger
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It pretty loudly and clearly infects people and reality, but I'm not sure if it does so in an Actual way. ...for that matter, would Polaris be an Actual technically???

fleet harbor
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The Hiss works

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In the same explicitly-supernatural way as zombies work

obsidian dagger
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Uhhh... the Flame of Frenzy/the Three Fingers in Elden Ring, unless that's a Strategist (which it definitely might be)? The Scarlet Rot?

fleet harbor
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I really like it when an Actual is like ā€¦ a social institution, a place, a conglomerate, that kind of thing

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Something that subtly and cruelly infects the world

obsidian dagger
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Ooh. Hm. This is a really really weird one, but what was that one planet of bureauocrats from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?

fleet harbor
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ChatGPT as an actual

obsidian dagger
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...roads as an Actual (I did once briefly stat them up as a Mimic).

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#1161861116721385482 message yeah I had this right here

fleet harbor
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And infects writing itself

obsidian dagger
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I feel there might be something to be said about spelling, or standardized english spelling, or something?

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Probably not related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2B406WiyKQ

YouTube
Laurie Anderson - Topic
Language Is a Virus (Remastered)

Provided to YouTube by Rhino/Warner Records

Language Is a Virus (Remastered) Ā· Laurie Anderson

Talk Normal: The Laurie Anderson Anthology

ā„— 1986 Warner Records Inc.

Background Vocals: Brenda White-King
Background Vocals: Curtis King
Background Vocals: Diane Garisto
Vocals: Dolette McDonald
Background Vocals: Frank Simms
Vocals: Janice Pe...

ā–¶ Play video
fleet harbor
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My general feeling is that the ā€œActuals are things that take over a personā€™s lifeā€ angle is intentional

obsidian dagger
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I'm trying to figure out how much they are about taking over people and how much they're about taking over places. Or stories. I remember it being described as Wounding the world (typically in a Chthonic way).

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And Wounds are, ultimately, limitations on your ability to describe your character. They're sort of a metaphysical immune reaction also?

fleet harbor
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Could be any or all of the above, I think

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I think the critical thing is that they remove a thingā€™s authentic self and replace it with themselves

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I once joked that the Bat-family is an actual

obsidian dagger
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Actuals? Kind of, yeah. I want to say the Fingerkings from Fallen London, as a group of snakes that possess people (and which don't exist, but would really like to), but the Fingerkings feel a bit too much like people?

fleet harbor
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Too much intent?

obsidian dagger
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No, like, I mean that they have conversations. They're arguably less individualized than the cats (who are real, but are at war with the snakes in order to stop the snakes from breaking into reality ā€” fun fact: when the snakes got more lore, the official Fallen London discord was struck by a tremendous wave of Discourse (known as Snekscourse, I believe), since this is not a cut-and-dried moral situation); there are... not a ton of situations where you talk to an individual specific snake, compared to talking to an individual specific cat? Which I didn't realize until now.

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But the snakes generally seem to be people with personalities and internal lives and goals, rather than just a personlike phenomenon.

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The Hiss is very Actual, though. I'd probably have to look into the Alan Wake stuff to know more about that, though.

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(Side note: Jesse is probably Allegory. Maybe something else as well, but I don't know what.)

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...something Blue maybe?

fleet harbor
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Jesse is the Power of Resilience

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She has a high Treasure rating, hence her ability with the gun

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When she purges control points sheā€™s doing a Persona miracle

candid compass
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is the telekinesis a gift? šŸ˜›

obsidian dagger
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Okay, not "probably", she has a Legendary Weapon (the Service Weapon, or possibly Polaris?), Mechanisms of Transport (the control points), and an Established History (she was part of the Ordinary AWE). Awaken could be justified by saying "this thing is actually an OoP" probably?

fleet harbor
candid compass
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also fair

fleet harbor
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In fact I think it somewhat explicitly does

candid compass
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ehh, sort of

obsidian dagger
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The telekinesis came from something else, I thought.

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a CD maybe?

candid compass
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each of the abilities is based on one of the other objects
but the service weapon helps her control them IIRC

candid compass
fleet harbor
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Ah, right

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So yeah Treasure!

candid compass
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get it
because she's launching objects around with it

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all the objects are pretty on the nose in terms of how they correspond to their powers, it's pretty funny

fleet harbor
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Iā€™d say sheā€™s got Treasure 5 and Aspect 3

obsidian dagger
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I think the Service Weapon and/or Polaris helps her and it's intentionally unclear which. Or if she had a natural predilection which in turn helped her bond to Polaris.

fleet harbor
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Domain and Persona take more effort from her

obsidian dagger
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I think Allegorical/Allegory has to fit somewhere in there too.

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Also maybe something Blue, given her interactions with the Board and the Other (who might have a name, but I forgot it).

fleet harbor
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The Board is another miraculous Anchor

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Sheā€™s got anchors coming out of her ears

obsidian dagger
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The Board doesn't seem to particularly like her. Honestly, it at least thinks it's in charge of her.

fleet harbor
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Alternately, the Board is her Imperator and Polaris is an anchor

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Honestly you could have it go either way

candid compass
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they just express it in a really weird way

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it is mostly a business relationship, but they don't actively dislike Jessie either

fleet harbor
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Whatshisface the janitor god is definitely a miraculous Anchor

obsidian dagger
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Yeah, which makes me think maybe something Blue?

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Ahti is definitely something weird, though. Gives her a tape to let her get through the maze, though.

fleet harbor
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Treasure 8 Miracle

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Your anchorā€™s miraculous power and your own mix in a novel way

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Treasure is kind of the ā€œdo anythingā€ miraculous attribute

obsidian dagger
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...I wonder if some of her Hiss-clensing is using Wonder-Worker to allow a mundane Empathy skill to contest Miraculous possession.

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Or if that's totally wrong (it might be).

candid compass
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because you can do almost anything as long as you have the right treasure

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it also has a weird curve where it gets way more powerful at the higher levels

obsidian dagger
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I think this is more Gatekeeper.

fleet harbor
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Including just straight-up Imperial Miracles

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I do think sheā€™s an Aspect & Treasure/Flore setup

candid compass
obsidian dagger
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There isn't anyone with Allegory and Gatekeeper, though... the closest we've got is Fallen Angels, but she's definitely not on Wounded Angel.

candid compass
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and it's only 2 Immersion for Greater Ignition

magic mason
fleet harbor
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I think the Hiss has strong Actual vibes in part because it eradicates the self of the things it overtakes

obsidian dagger
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It could be, but it feels more Actual to me, especially in the way it infects everything, including physical locations (although the House is definitely a special case), and with the exception of Dylan, erases personhood and individuality.

fleet harbor
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And even Dylan uh

obsidian dagger
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Yeah, Dylan is definitely "uh". Most charitable interpretation is Wounded Angel, probably.

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But that's probably not right.

fleet harbor
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It doesnā€™t do anything good to him

obsidian dagger
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Actually, Dylan could be Awakening.

obsidian dagger
fleet harbor
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In some ways, Control is like a perfect video game, because you keep Acquiring Stuff

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Magic items, subordinates, friends, authority, an ever-bigger house ā€¦

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Jesse is basically the ultimate Flore user

candid compass
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I'll need to claim a few more treasures eventually
I still have like four unclaimed slots

magic mason
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Shoutout to Warhost Geomancers

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Imagine a Strategist on some Slenderman proxy shit

fleet harbor
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Letā€™s see. Ahti, the Board, the Service Weapon, the various items, the Oldest House, the FBC ā€¦

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Shitload of anchors

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Actually given Jesse had predecessors, maybe the Board is the Imperator

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And Polaris is a miraculous anchor

candid compass
# magic mason Shoutout to Warhost Geomancers

Host Flore users must just really love torturing themselves šŸ˜›
it's so difficult to stay at war with the things you love, you really have to want to suffer to decide to remain with the Host

patent tiger
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I think [wants to suffer, on some level] would be a rather common Strategist coping mechanism

candid compass
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ah you see
if they suffer in a way that they choose, it means they are winning actually

patent tiger
#

Exactly

tall jolt
fleet harbor
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Aye

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The Villages is gonna have to remain my ur-example though, that article spooked me real bad

patent tiger
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It's a very impactful article

reef perch
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what article?

vivid wraith
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this one

fleet harbor
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It describes a place that seems to devour people, land, and wealth, homogenizing them into itself in a very chilling way

magic mason
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Made a funny Pstate

The Ship In Haidhild's Bottle
is very small
Is being poked by needles
Is isolated from the real world
Is a source of comfort
breaks easily

magic mason
#

A scent for every stat, ya know for descriptive ā€œmarks of miraclesā€ stuff

Lore: Garlic
Style: dish soap
Wounded: roses and blood
Allegorical: Dandelion wine
Visage: a extremely pungent perfume
Persona: Black Coffee
Vastness: Ozone
Domain: Fresh cut grass
Wanderer: Fish
Holy: Citrus, specifically in that like marmalade way
Hunt: Bonfire
Theft: Rubbing alcohol
Adept: Spicy dust, like you find on chips
Aspect: Cedar Wood
Sealed: Burnt caramel
Gardener: chlorine
Flore: lavender, but like how you smell it on new bedsheets
Architect: Those colognes named shit like ā€œMuskā€
Monstrous: wild animal smell
Eide: Ink
Wyrd: Sulfur
Symbolic: Mud
Prophet: Vanilla Candles
Deepness: petrichor

Tell me if you agree or disagree with the picks, there is also a reference in here

fleet harbor
#

I feel like wood is insufficiently specific, what about cedar wood

magic mason
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Sure honestly

fleet harbor
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Wyrd smells like rotten eggs eh?

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Does Wanderer smell like fresh fish or does it have "fishy" smells

magic mason
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It feels like if any of them were gonna get a smell that is just rancid it would be accursed

magic mason
fleet harbor
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I like the list tho

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Even if nothing smells like pizza

magic mason
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Did you find the reference?

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Iā€™m curious if anyone is gonna spot it

fleet harbor
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The only thing I can think of is that maybe Architect is an Elon Musk joke somehow

magic mason
#

Nah

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I just think Architect would smell like some old spice bs

fleet harbor
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That's what I figured

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But yeah I got nothin'

magic mason
#

Iā€™m gonna see if anyone else will catch it

restive ridge
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Is it a ref to Nine Sols

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And is it Allegorical

magic mason
#

Nope
And no

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Dandelion Wine just felt like a good way to sell the larger than life vibes

frank light
#

have you ever played "in stars and time"

fleet harbor
#

No

frank light
#

oh

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||Burnt sugar is the smell of 'wish magic'. which y'know...sealed ass powerset tbh||
||Hell even the concept of how wishes work in that game work kinda like how they do in chuubos/glitch.||
sliight spoilers? Actually not very slight but still spoilers

fleet harbor
#

This came up in #tabletop-discussion but: Ryuk from Death Note is the Lord of Games

rose crescent
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How so?

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What are the Lords of Rules/Game, actually

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They're one of the ones I don't get

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(The only ones I get are Angels/Fallen, and maybe Serpents?)

magic mason
candid compass
#

the Game is the drive for freedom in humanity

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no one should constrain you, not even yourself
so do whatever you want, and then crash and burn in a glorious end

magic mason
#

The Rules are humanity's self preservation and super ego
The Game are humanity's id and death urge

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The Rules want eternal safety even if you wish you were dead
The Game want eternal freedom evem if it kills you

candid compass
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and yeah, the Rules are the opposite
the want for safety and eternal life, even if it means having to give up everything else
survival at all cost

magic mason
#

The Rules love you
They love you and turn away

candid compass
#

the Rules love humanity, and they want to preserve us
but they also don't really understand humans, and what it means to be human

vivid wraith
#

the rules/game labels are new for Glitch, right? Before it was Light/Dark?

candid compass
#

yeah

magic mason
#

yeah

vivid wraith
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cool cool

candid compass
#

but in terms of what they are it's the same, just a name change

magic mason
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I prefer the names because now you can be a Gamer noble

rose crescent
#

Which was which?

magic mason
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Rules were light

candid compass
restive ridge
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Rules-Light
Games-Dark

vivid wraith
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"the whole world in a bottle" huh

magic mason
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Magisters Of The Rules love the authors barely disguised fetish chambers

vivid wraith
#

thank you i now have a clear vision of Gamelord Lex Luthor

rose crescent
#

Magisters?

patent tiger
candid compass
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and meanwhile the Game will encourage your worst impulses

magic mason
#

Magister is just the term used as a title for a lot of imperator types

fleet harbor
rose crescent
#

Gotcha

fleet harbor
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The Game wants you to die in the coolest way possible

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The goal is for you to go out like Thelma and Louise

magic mason
fleet harbor
#

To be yourself so fully and completely that it kills you

patent tiger
vivid wraith
fleet harbor
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(Wild Magisters are not dissimilar but they do not specifically want you dead)

vivid wraith
#

they come from somewhere else in the World Ash they just get "translated" as aliens from our own universe

candid compass
magic mason
vivid wraith
fleet harbor
vivid wraith
#

woah

fleet harbor
#

This also explains some weird astrophysics stuff

candid compass
#

I do find it very funny that in Nobilis a lot of science is just looking too closely at things, so the spirits hurriedly have to come up with some bullshit story about why things work that way in the prosaic

undone flame
#

So wait

fleet harbor
#

Itā€™s like when Roseā€™s room in Steven Universe tries to simulate the whole town

undone flame
#

does Nobilis literally have this

fleet harbor
# rose crescent How so?

Ryuk arguably leads Light to his doom by giving him the power of the Death Note, unleashing his wildest fantasies but also drawing the worldā€™s wrath down upon him.

candid compass
#

yeah Death Note definitely tracks as a Game scheme

magic mason
candid compass
undone flame
#

What do you mean "arguably"

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Ryuk is straight up "I'm gonna fucking kill you" episode 1

magic mason
#

Personally my ideal gamelord vibe aesthically is JRPG children

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because that is what that oen gamelord looks like

undone flame
#

Gamelord

fleet harbor
#

Naw Duel Monsters is an Actual

magic mason
#

Usually if a game lord is like, actually themed after a game in my mind its gambling aesthetics

obsidian dagger
#

horrible thought: is The Face from Disco Elysium an Actual? (note: I know almost nothing about Disco Elysium.)

candid compass
#

The Expression you mean?

obsidian dagger
#

yes. Spaced on the name.

candid compass
#

It doesn't really seem contagious enough to anything more than just another weird facet of Harry

fleet harbor
vivid wraith
#

fascinating

obsidian dagger
#

I think Duel Monsters isn't an Actual, it's a campaign convention. (Which is, arguably, an Actual that metastasized. Or became the equivalent of mitochondria, perhaps.) It looks a bit more like an Actual if you're looking at Season 0 as part of the same series, but it could just as well be a Gatecrasher pulling people into the Secret World of Duel Monsters (although Actuals get Gatecrasher, so that might not be as significant).

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Honestly you could probably say that Actuals and campaign conventions are, if not the same thing, than at least the same kind of thing.

fleet harbor
#

You could, but Iā€™m not sure I personally would

patent tiger
#

A campaign convention is a form of wish. An Actual is a product of hubris going wrong and running rampant, making it not directly homologous to a wish.

Or, to reiterate an angle I've concluded before:

A campaign convention isn't an Actual, but a campaign is.

#

The game is based on prior hubris, and grows to consume and expand more of the world and integrate it into itself, placing upon those integrated pieces certain themes and expectations that shape them

obsidian dagger
#

That's really fun, actually.

#

In the substrate of the Nobilis world, and to some degree the Chuuboā€™s world, there is a seething sea of things that are not quite alive and not quite not alive, either.

Letā€™s say, creatures not of semantics, but of grammar. Of metaphysical syntax.

I imagine them taking form, often with a belligerent vitality, often insectile, often protoplasmic, often monstrous, contesting desperately to subordinate the existence around them to their syntax, and then hopelessly dissolving back into the foam of the substrate from which they rose. [...] They arise, move, and fade; their arising and fading, each, is piggybacked upon the emergent interactions and contentions of others that are in the stage of ā€œmotion,ā€ so that the stew never subsides.

In each breath of wind, ten million million scrabbling Actuals arise, scream, predate upon one another; die.

restive ridge
#

When people talk about Actuals they usually mean the summoned up surface ones

#

Which are summoned up from the Drowning Depths by hubris yeah

obsidian dagger
#

Fair. But while the summoning is a product of hubris, the Actual itself isn't.

candid compass
#

Actuals are just the basic substrate of Creation

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They aren't supposed to be anything in particular

obsidian dagger
candid compass
#

That's why one being outside the Drowning Deeps is a problem

fleet harbor
#

Theyā€™re not Actuals in the Drowning Deeps

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Any more than a skin cell is cancer before it mutates into a melanoma

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They is even the wrong word

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There are no Actuals in the Drowning Deeps, but the stuff of the Drowning Deeps will become an Actual at higher levels of reality

obsidian dagger
fleet harbor
#

I think the metaphor falls apart at that point :P

vivid wraith
obsidian dagger
#

I think that's in fact a very appropriate metaphor for some of those "instantaneous Actuals"; they're the very beginning of the process, but no more.

fleet harbor
#

Damn it Stepnix are you saying metaphors for Actuals are an Actual

obsidian dagger
#

A long time ago I suggested that Actuals are built of Auctorita. Those are, if youā€™ve forgotten, barriers that keep miracles from happening properly. If thereā€™s an Auctoritas 2 that says someone canā€™t be hurt, and you hit them with lightning, that wonā€™t work! Not without at least +2 Strike.

vivid wraith
#

A Failed Metaphor For An Actual Summons An Actual

obsidian dagger
#

Either Actuals are metaphors for themselves, or they're the only things that aren't. I'm not sure which.

patent tiger
fleet harbor
#

I think theyā€™re a vibe

obsidian dagger
#

And campaign conventions also have Auctorita, which sort of supports my thesis that they're made of the same substance.

patent tiger
#

They're wish effects

obsidian dagger
patent tiger
obsidian dagger
patent tiger
#

Things That Are How Things Are

restive ridge
#

Actuals in Glitch have Geasa

obsidian dagger
#

with how ridiculous some of the Exalted martial arts are, having one where most or oall of the moves require you to be handcuffed wouldn't seem out-of-place, would it? but Actuals are Neat, yeah.

restive ridge
#

which are the equivalent of Afflictions and the source of most Auctoritas in 3e IIRC

obsidian dagger
#

Well, my theory as to how Actuals infect portions of existence, or, more generally, act, is, first, they slip into the world and impose an Auctoritas and maybe Obstacle to say:

ā€œOK, hereā€™s my rule about what canā€™t happen.ā€

That doesnā€™t say what will happen, of course, so thatā€™s not immediately helpful to making things happenā€¦ but itā€™s a start.

In fact, thereā€™s a development path from here that imagines billions of piled-up wishes (or maybe just millions considering how young a universe Nobilis actually is) all crashing against that and suddenly turning off, and thatā€™s interesting, but I donā€™t have rules for that right now so letā€™s ignore that approach for now. For now, the main thing that the Actuals and their syntax can do is say: OK, first, letā€™s rule out some stuff.

And then?

If what they want to do instead isnā€™t feasible?

If theyā€™d need a miracle to accomplish what their syntax says to do next, only, theyā€™re not really miraculous creatures?

They donā€™t burn their truth into the world as a miracle. Miracles are an evolutionary part of the existing syntax and semantics of the world, after all, and the Actualā€™s will isnā€™t.

Instead, as the second step, the Actual forces its way of being onto existence.

It wounds the world.
...so did she lean into that "piled-up wishes" thing, possibly inadvertently?

#

I want to describe Actuals as either autochthonous or achthonous, but that's admittedly because those words sound cool.

#

(and the latter of them I just made up, to be clear.)

#

...is language (either as a concept, or specific languages) an Actual, or something similar? This is only partially an excuse to post this very good song.

YouTube
Laurie Anderson - Topic
Language Is a Virus (Remastered)

Provided to YouTube by Rhino/Warner Records

Language Is a Virus (Remastered) Ā· Laurie Anderson

Talk Normal: The Laurie Anderson Anthology

ā„— 1986 Warner Records Inc.

Background Vocals: Brenda White-King
Background Vocals: Curtis King
Background Vocals: Diane Garisto
Vocals: Dolette McDonald
Background Vocals: Frank Simms
Vocals: Janice Pe...

ā–¶ Play video
#

...does the answer change if you've read Undead Unluck?

#

Actually, how would you represent Negators in Chuubo's? You absolutely could just slap on an Affliction and call it a day, but that feels wrong, somehow.

patent tiger
#

What's a Negator?

fleet harbor
#

They negate things

obsidian dagger
#

Very minor spoilers for the premise of Undead Unluck: ||Negators are people who "negate" some fundamental concept or law of reality, typically involuntarily. For instance, the titular powers of the main charaters manifest as negating the user's death (thus making them immortal), and negating the luck of anyone the user touches (thus causing them to be struck by some negative circumstance the moment she breaks contact.||

patent tiger
#

"Here's a list of properties that get miraculously applied to you or those you push them onto"

#

And suitable for having entirely different properties on different people

obsidian dagger
#

||Both of these effects happen complety automatically, even if the Negator doesn't want it to; the negator of Unluck can't make skin contact with anyone without them getting hurt (and the effect gets stronger the more she likes whoever she's touching), and it's ruined her life.|| In fact (bigger spoiler, though for a relatively early chapter ā€” I forget which) ||Negators are given their powers in ways that are specifically set up to make them unhappy, because God in this universe is bored and sadistic and likes doing stuff like giving Unluck to someone as she's hugging her parents goodbye before they go on a plane trip, simply for his own amusement.||

fleet harbor
#

Giving people Afflictions is a Persona move, yeah

obsidian dagger
#

Also, negators ||can either negate something in themself or in others, but not both. It usually looks a lot like an affliction on them specifically?|| But (spoilers for slightly further in) ||there's a character whose Negator power is dangerous enough that it looks a lot like Wounded Angel probably (it... might be Accursed, but i kind of doubt it?)||; maybe different Negators just have different arcs?

#

...what's Persona equivalent to?

magic mason
#

Star Quality/Sickly Orange

#

Memetic in Far Roofs

patent tiger
#

It's the overlap between Nobilis and Deceivers

magic mason
#

and WIld Magisters

fleet harbor
#

You give things properties of your estate/p-state

magic mason
#

(who fun fact, use persona as their treasure stat. Normal for girls)

patent tiger
#

Wilders are actually all just Deceivers doing an elaborate bit

fleet harbor
#

ā€¦ well but yeah

obsidian dagger
#

For some reason, I have trouble internalizing the workings of Star Quality, but that sounds feasible. I do know that Negators (bigger spoilers, but you could probably guess at least part) ||get to learn ways to warp their powers to kind of stretch the definitions of their abilities, and learn what they can stretch their powers to do; sometimes this is just new uses for the same abilities, but other times, it's a really major distortion of the ability which only technically counts.|| I'm almost tempted to point them at Reality Syndrome because of that? Reality Syndrome gets to do that kind of thing, and (vague but big spoilers) ||there's a character with limited power-copying abilities, which is textbook Reality Syndrome. And a few moments where characters are told a different way to think of their powers.||

candid compass
magic mason
candid compass
fleet harbor
#

Itā€™s be funny to see a Deceiver and a Wildlord have an argument because the Wildlord is well equipped to parry any point the Deceiver can make

#

ā€œYouā€™re not even from Ninuan, maaaaaanā€

#

ā€œNinuan is a metaphā€”ā€œ
ā€œNopeā€

candid compass
#

I do wonder if Wildlords actually remember their time as a Ninuani

magic mason
#

I don't think Wild Magisters register a diffrence

obsidian dagger
frank light
#

thats pretty accurate to vibes with the game

candid compass
obsidian dagger
#

Not even in the sense of "voluntarily taking the actions which cause the effect to trigger".

magic mason
#

Game lords who always says "But thats just how The Game is playeed"

candid compass
#

but that's just a theory

#

a game- I am shot

frank light
#

in the end light yagami fucking dies in the most spectacular swan dive of being a shithead

so death note is very good Game inspo

#

"hey mortal heres unfathomable power go nuts"
watches them reach the peak and then fall

#

"awesome"

magic mason
#

shoutout to gamelords and warmains for wielding the miracle

P E A C E

obsidian dagger
#

...oh, yeah. Negators, at various points in the story, get things which are absolutely Treasures. It doesn't happen that often, but it does happen.

#

Here's another fact about them which feels meaningful, is a spoiler for the full premise (which doesn't develop immediately, if that makes sense? It's what ends up happening once things are set up, if that makes sense), and maybe points towards something Sickly: ||at various points reality gets altered retroactively, in response to but not as an extension of their actions (if that makes sense), and since this is retroactive it also affects everyone's memories... except for Negators; they remember what happened before the changes (which sometimes leaves them ignorant of some basic fact of the world or law of physics, which does cause problems at some points, and has to be mitigated at other points)||.

fleet harbor
#

Griefā€¦
ā€¦ appears to those who have experienced loss. (2)
ā€¦ demands reflection. (1)
ā€¦ expresses itself, one way or the other. (1)
ā€¦ offers a choice between hope and despair. (3)

frank light
#

oh thats solid

#

solid set of properties

fleet harbor
#

I think you could use those in play pretty well

frank light
#

yea

obsidian dagger
#

...what if I look at what their arcs look like within the story, and see if that points anywhere? There's some things that look like they could be Purple, some things that could be Gold? I don't know. Anyway time to try to internalize Star Quality.

#

It's actually totally possible that there just... isn't a standardized set of Negator arcs, and they're different snowflakes who do different things depending on their backstory and the specific form of their power.

hollow spruce
#

Undead Unluck is pretty nobilis-core, I do agree

obsidian dagger
#

...allegory??? there's a very few very specific characters who might want Allegory, but they could definitely do work with it, including Taboo for them in general and A Tangled History specifically allows for more than a few things. Sometimes, this is obvious; sometimes, it's a bit more subtle, but... are you at least mostly caught up? Because uhhh two arcs ago, we get to see ||the main character retroactively establish that her love for ramen made her into an urban legend (on the level of the hypothetical player, I mean)||. Also we can see ||retroactively declaring that she spent a hundred years learning to be a surgeon||.

#

...Allegory could work, Gatecrasher could kind of work (we do get to see ||astral projection|| get established as a new Basic Move) unless that's... awakening... maybe???

#

We need a more modern draft of Creature of Delirium which acknowledges its Redness.

magic mason
#

Far Roofs has creature of delerium

obsidian dagger
#

EMBODIMENT

Type: Imperial Miracle
Cost: ā€”

You are defined by your Experience. In your vicinityā€”anywhere youā€™ve been for more than a few minutes, and lasting for a scene or so after you leaveā€”there is a Region Property thatā€™s some close variant on:

[your name] must [be experiencing your Experience]

Pick a suitable phrasing when you get this power, including twisting the meaning a bit if needs must.
This should almost certainly be Chthonic (but was written before that existed) and the whole "extraction of weymarks" thing uhhh doesn't... actually... work without a significant distortion of logic. But a surprising amount of the periphera fit.

magic mason
#

the biggest red thing it does is the weird Cutscene stuff

#

this too

obsidian dagger
#

Embodiment works, there's a few moments of emotional connection, and there's some player-level Shape Fate usage.

magic mason
#

Oh and here is the designated red " presentation" power

image.png
obsidian dagger
#

Creature of Delirium is only written up as a draft (which thinks that the arc is Frantic Silver ā€” it got moved later), and I wonder if weymarks aren't actually supposed to always be physical objects.

magic mason
#

As of Far Roofs they still are

obsidian dagger
#

Yeah, and without that it'd probably dilute the concept too much... what characters in other fiction fit more clearly? Regina from the earlier seasons of Once Upon A Time (which I randomly ended up watching, partially) gets to pull out people's hearts and then control them via that, so that fits... but I don't know if missing a heart does anything directly or if it's just a means of control? Still probably fits.

#

Surprising numbers of things steal people's names, actually. But it seems like Creature of Delirium steals part of someone and then controls them via it rather than turning into them/"wearing" it? Otherwise Doopliss probably counts... sort of... unless that's Reality Syndrome again.

candid compass
#

well, you could potentially steal someone's name with Theft I suppose

obsidian dagger
#

Which one is that?

candid compass
#

Theft is Creature of Delirium

#

though names as an experience feels both kinda limited and not that interesting I feel

frank light
#

identity as an experience perhaps?

#

and then you steal the physical name as the weystone

obsidian dagger
#

yeah, the name is the weystone. Maybe it's stolen in physical form, or maybe we allow the weystone to be something else which isn't quite an object (and it probably should be, although you might keep it in an object?

#

there's a character in Noragami who extracts someone's memories in a pearl...

#

...does Dr. Loboto's brain extraction in Psychonauts count? (The debrained people are still alive, to be clear; you can just look in one ear and see out the other, and also they're one step above catatonic.)

fleet harbor
#

Concept: Nobilis game where the plot is controlling the events of a shoujo manga-esque romance from the shadows while other people are trying to do the same

obsidian dagger
#

But then they don't quite get controlled.

#

(for my previous post, not yours.)

fleet harbor
#

(He doesnā€™t like love okay)

obsidian dagger
#

the main thing that I think is maybe important about Creature of Delirium is that they're not just stealing something; they're separating a person into two parts.

fleet harbor
#

Which they are supposed to be manipulating from the outside

#

Really this is more story material than game plot

obsidian dagger
#

still neat though!

#

...I wonder if identity theft counts, as someone gradually deals with the consequences of their role being stolen by means of someone else acting in their stead. If so, Berg-Katze might count.

#

(from Gatchaman CROWDS)

#

What splat generally gives out powers? Awakening can, but it's more about giving tools; I mean a mentor figure who gives longer-term powers. ...is A.J. a Creature of Delirium who just gives people back their own extracted souls, letting them control their own transformations, kind of? ...for that matter, is Kyuubey?

candid compass
#

really depends, there's a lot of ways to do it

frank light
#

Lore can do infusions

candid compass
#

any of the Purple arcs are of course the most obvious one, Flore especially

frank light
#

Oh yeah flore is good for it

obsidian dagger
#

...which are those?

frank light
#

Sentimental and gatekeeper

candid compass
#

I think Infusion was also a Blue arc miracle effectively?

frank light
#

Flore literally can empower parts of creation you love and give them superpowers

restive ridge
#

Sentimental Gatekeeper Impressario

frank light
#

Lore has some capability for giving people powers with infusion

candid compass
#

Persona can use Binding to put someone into a role related to your truths

frank light
#

Persona can as well with Binding

obsidian dagger
#

by AJ. I meant JJ Robinson to be clear. I just forgot his name.

fleet harbor
#

Yeah a Noble or Strategist with high Flore can basically just will you to be cool

frank light
#

Yeah it can explicitly give abilities and stuff based on what they transform into

fleet harbor
frank light
#

weā€™re having soft tacos later!

candid compass
restive ridge
#

In general, any single splat has a dedicated "pile of random stuff with random powers" stat althought some are flavoured different from giving powers

frank light
#

Yeah

#

Kinda

candid compass
#

doesn't necessarily give them any direct control over you, at least Flore doesn't anymore
but you are still connected

fleet harbor
#

And you can sort of will things to happen through them

frank light
#

With projection you can be with them like a sort of ghost

obsidian dagger
#

...I think there's a specific version of this which doesn't keep the weymark per se, but gives it back, at least in part (they might still have some control).

candid compass
#

in general each splat tends to use one of their stats as their Treasure stand-in, so it tends to be about ways to interact with other things and people

candid compass
restive ridge
#

Let me seee

candid compass
#

you can also modify the weymark, and the Vessel through it

obsidian dagger
#

They're still very Red, though. Here's some things that I think are examples:

restive ridge
#

Nobles&Strategist have Flore
Angels and Rules have Gardener
Fallen have Allegorical
Serpent have Wanderer to give you cool magic swords
Games have Monstrous to hand you cursed magic swords
The Wild and Deceiver have Persona Binding miracles
Actuals have Visage :)
Warmains have "you are my evil sidekick now" powers from Architect and Monstrous arguably
Mimics are imperial by nature
True Gods.. maybe Deepness?

obsidian dagger
#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAC3v6jogmk don't love the dub but this is all I could find. Could be Gatecrasher maybe too?

YouTube
Crunchyroll Dubs
[C] -- Control Masaki Offers a Deal (Official Clip)

The acclaimed noitaminA anime series, [C] -- Control available on DVD/ BD combo pack October 30, 2012

Order Now: http://funi.to/C_Control_blog_rs
Preorder on Right Stuf to receive an exclusive limited item!

In this game, you can't afford to lose.

Kimimaro works two jobs to put himself through college. He's handed an end to his check-to-check ...

ā–¶ Play video
candid compass
obsidian dagger
#

also in the original, those money-jingling sounds whenever masaki moves are much more pronounced.

frank light
candid compass
#

for Deceivers, I believe Theft is actually their Treasure stat?

frank light
#

theft makes a lot of sense to me

candid compass
#

which does mostly track

fleet harbor
obsidian dagger
restive ridge
#

Yeah but Theft is a weird broken Treasure in my mind

#

Iolithae can make you an empty vessel of her lies with Theft

#

But she can give you cool magic powers by Binding you to her Pstate with Persona

candid compass
#

true

obsidian dagger
#

...I'm really annoyed that the only video I can find of Masaki is dubbed. There used to be a subbed clip on youtube too? I mean, the whole series used to be free on youtube, but never mind that. But I feel like it's important to know that every single movement he makes sounds like jingling coins.

candid compass
#

Theft is their treasure because it's how Deceivers build up their cults and other servants

frank light
obsidian dagger
#

...masaki extracts people's futures in the form of money/credit cards, and I find that very funny.

frank light
#

and giving people neat small individual powers is like
classic

frank light
#

i guess its less "whats a treasure stat" and more a question of whats a dope way to give people cool powers

restive ridge
#

Yeah

frank light
#

in which case i do agree that persona can work in a way better than theft

maybe...
actually i dont know much about theft

#

i think theft can make wishes with weystones but thats a whole other thing

obsidian dagger
#

it's kind of inchoate at the moment, at least in its chuubo form.

candid compass
#

Theft doesn't directly empower your Vessels as such

frank light
#

me when i inchoate

#

i love inchoating

fleet harbor
#

Honestly a lot of miraculous stats can give out powers because playing a miraculous being is fundamentally about playing gods

candid compass
#

you can act through them
you can make small tweaks via their weystones, depending on what it is

obsidian dagger
#

also directly transform them due to their lack of that experience.

fleet harbor
#

And giving boons is a thing gods do

#

Giving boons and acting through people

obsidian dagger
#

Jasmine Apocynum extracts hearts, and then turns the heartless bodies into giant robots.

frank light
#

for sure

#

even wyrd can do it

#

wyrd can unfetter people

#

and if you do epic scale stuff with greater unfettering you can make it permanent

#

eide has a harder time but im certain you can figure it out...

eide is a hard one...

fleet harbor
#

(Itā€™s not a metaphor because itā€™s just that thing, thereā€™s no subtext here)

candid compass
#

it's very much focused on your own personal coolness

fleet harbor
#

Eide and Aspect are both pretty selfish yah

candid compass
#

Wyrd you do still have Unfettering, Greater Rev Rite, and even perhaps Contagion

frank light
#

contagion's a weird one but possibly

candid compass
#

if you stretch a bit you can potentially "curse" someone with something that's maybe sort of positive for them

frank light
#

yeah

#

oh greater intensity is i think a boon in a way but not really a power

candid compass
#

ehh, sort of I guess

frank light
#

greater intensity establishes a relationship with the user is necessary for some reason

#

but it does keep the reason actually valid

candid compass
#

it is a declaration of protection in a way I suppose

frank light
#

and they have to kinda make sure you dont get hurt too

candid compass
#

you are important to each other now, if not in a personal way perhaps

frank light
#

so if someone gets greater intensity'd into something, and the "reason" they need the strategist is for help with stealing a gem

#

well...stealing the gem will always remain valid

#

it wont become impossible while that geas still holds

magic mason
#

Theft can give people powers if your experience is more tactile

#

Because not having something can in effect give you a superpower

#

Like ā€œnot having mortalityā€ anymore giving you immortality

candid compass
#

Theft is pretty variable depending on what your experience is exactly, yeah

magic mason
#

Or not having sound anymore making you super good at stealth

fleet harbor
#

This even gets an example in Nobilis 3e, with the woman who got her illness taken away

#

And now just ā€¦ doesnā€™t get sick

#

Ever

#

And sheā€™s pretty sure thatā€™s an abomination

nocturne epoch
#

I've had a noble with an affliction that's like 'all my miracles are just, deeply wrong and fucked up, especially the good ones'

#

dude could cure cancer and it would still seem wrong and unsettling

patent tiger
#

That's amazing

magic mason
#

Shoutout to Mad Scientistcore Rules Magisters

#

Like Keeper Of Gardens but for their lab type mfs

#

lean a bit harder into the transhumanist bit

fleet harbor
#

Assertion: the best way to get an Angel and a Rulelord into a fight is to mention transhumanism

magic mason
#

oh? do you think angels would be opposed?

fleet harbor
#

I think the opposite

#

Rules would hate transhumanism because it would involve humans meaningfully changing

#

Theyā€™d be big on cryo tho

magic mason
#

I think Rules would be cool with Transhumanism as long as the humans lived longer and still identified as Humanity

fleet harbor
#

ā€œWhat if we just kept 90% of humanity on ice, then they would live forever and never be in dangerā€

magic mason
#

Or this might be a bit of contest within the Song Of The Light for Rules Lords and their noble political allies to discuss intra party

fleet harbor
#

I think Angels would be down for it but only if it involved making the world more perfect

#

Solarpunk transhumanism yes, cyberpunk transhumanism nah

magic mason
#

like I think Rules Lords would love some like... Eclipse Phase type shit and hate exhumans with a burning passion

fleet harbor
#

I think theyā€™d like the consciousness storage but not pods or synths or any biomorph that was too weird

magic mason
#

nah nah I think Rules Lords care more about Humanity than the human form

#

Humanity as a nebulous concept, or even a political identity

#

than what a (Human) is

fleet harbor
#

I dunno they feel more specifically fixated to me

candid compass
#

They do have the thing where they don't care anymore if someone ceases to be human, same as the Game

fleet harbor
#

Also itā€™s fun that the Rules are the immortality and miraculous spirit of humans but they donā€™t want to admit it, as of Glitch

candid compass
#

Though I imagine individual Magisters will probably draw that line at different points

magic mason
#

Its brought up in glitch that if they could ascend humans they would but all they really know "anatomy of a god wise" is a Rules Lord and uh

They are smart enough to know turning you into a imperator is going to fuck up your ego bad

candid compass
#

It's what they say at least

magic mason
# 
If you ask them, they will say, it is not their will. They do not want to hurt us, to stomp us down. They want, they will assure us, literally nothing more than to raise us up. They yearn, with every fiber of their unalloyed, undivided, and unfibered being to haul us up beside them, transform us, transfigure us: make us that which will live forever.

Here is the bit that makes me think they are cool with a something eclipse phase style if someone could pull it off

#

actually wait no you might have a point

It is merely that they have chosen, like an honest reporter
in a lobbyā€™s pocket, a very convenient interpretation of
the facts. They have chosen to understand the world in a
way that requires they do nothing other than what they
are naturally inclined to do, to take no responsibility for
anything save what they wish; they have shied away from
any more ... transformational ... understandings, lest the
tower of their moral high ground shake.
#

ok new take new take

they wouldn't did it themselves but if a human invented it the ywould be like, so hype

#

they would be popping champenge in the Jungian Noonsphere or wherever the fuck Rules Magisters second selves are

nocturne epoch
frank light
#

as far as im human, all trans is concerned

#

great first glitch session of another game

#

chiba (my clown strategist) is very silly

obsidian dagger
#

another random possible Creature of Delirium: Gecko Moria from One Piece, with an unknown Experience, who takes shadows as weymarks.

#

(still trying to think of more of them)

narrow tartan
#

Ooh Gluubilia

narrow tartan
#

Some different things i have come up for different types of thing.
-Bromios: Magister of the Game and Imperator of Wine, Riots, and Exotic Pets.
-???: Mimic Snake of Tourism and Tickets/Stamps. Rules a city on the edge of the Is and the Not which serves as neutral ground.

frank light
#

Oh nice

obsidian dagger
fleet harbor
#

Glitch

#

Chuubo

patent tiger
#

Presumable: Gluubilis is a (rather bad, if you ask me) portmanteau of Glitch, Chuubo's, and Nobilis

fleet harbor
#

Nobilis

patent tiger
#

And this is a minor typo of that

frank light
#

Gluubiloofs is superior yeah

fleet harbor
#

Snrrrk

patent tiger
#

šŸ’¢

#

My rage is sub-eternal and will one day cease

#

But not today

obsidian dagger
#

So, anyone else have any potential examples of Creature of Delirium (I'm 99% sure its Nobilis equivalent is Theft)? I think the idea that's important is managing to understand it less as taking something away from someone, and more as separating a person into two parts ā€” a weymark containing some aspect of them, and then the rest of them.

#

and I think that Kuubey from Puella Magi Madoka Magica and JJ Robinson from Gatchaman CROWDS both qualify, with the odd caveat that they give the weymark back to the person they took it from almost immediately (but do not put it back into them).

vivid wraith
#

utena black rose arc

obsidian dagger
#

I really need to watch Utena. I looked at the first episode but... look, it seemed interesting, but it's older than I am and it shows in the animation quality. And that sort of made me bounce off a little... but I still do really really need and want to watch it.

vivid wraith
#

strongly consider looking over a content warning list before you do

obsidian dagger
#

I'm still not clear on if Dr. Loboto's brain extraction in Psychonauts qualify, since the brainless people really don't do much anything at all. (They're not dead, to be clear! You just plonk them in front of a television playing a simple show on loop and they just sit there and stare at it and say "teeeeeveee..." occasionally.)

#

(And you can put the brains back in via a funnel in the person's ear.)

patent tiger
obsidian dagger
#

Side note! I don't know if anyone has watched Deca-Dence, but Kaburagi is a great example of a Gatecrasher, including one who doesn't immediately pull someone into his hidden world. ||And/or Awakening, actually.||

#

Honestly he kinda likes, or at least could work with, everything in the Actual set (Become Somebody/Gatecrasher/Impresario/Awakening). ...what would an Actual campaign look like? (I remember hearing that an Angel campaign would be magical girls.)

#

...maybe something like Demon or Promethean from World of Darkness? I don't know. An Actual campaign would probably be about knowing about a secret hidden other world, full of power and danger, and trying to escape from it.

#

What are the names of their arcs (Become Somebody/Gatecrasher/Impresario/Awakening) in Nobilis, out of curiosity?

narrow tartan
#

Visage, Style, Architect, Deepness

frank light
#

slash deepness

obsidian dagger
#

he does also induct someone into a hidden world. And find allies to treasure, who help him.

frank light
#

oh that too

#

though thats storywise

#

ability wise its a good touchstone for deepness

#

"I am actually playing a game and my true self is something else" for explaining deepness n shit

obsidian dagger
#

Yeah, he definitely fits. (I'm also not sure if that should be spoilered, because on the one hand, it's a huge reveal about the nature of the setting, but on the other, it's explicitly stated at the start of episode 2.)

#

WAIT. I figured out what an Actual campaign might look like. I think it would look like Gematrians from Exalted. (They are called Gematrians, right? Like gematria, which is a connection I somehow didn't make until today?)

patent tiger
#

Getimians iirc

obsidian dagger
#

that's it. That's why I never made that connection: because it didn't exist.

#

And the word "gematria" just popped into my head and interfered.

#

But I came to this conclusion after I realized: there's no inherent requirement that everyone's secret world, or the hidden truth that everyone awakened to, is the same. They can each come from different secret worlds... just like how Getimians each come from different nonexistent timelines.

narrow tartan
#

One deceiver I came up with. Uses Theft to extract the experience of Belonging as a pair of shoes. Which can be used in very scary ways. I'm not certain if the associated Deceiver uses it in a super strange way

obsidian dagger
#

oh, that's interesting.

narrow tartan
#

Not strange. Scary. She uses it in strange ways but won't do anything too twisted

obsidian dagger
#

I feel like there's something about some character stealing people's identities in the form of masks, and without them they're faceless and can't remember who they are, but I don't know if this is a character I'm remembering or one I'm imagining.

#

...here's another group of characters to try to figure out: Otherside Picnic. Honesty, Sorawo and Toriko both do interesting things but I'm tempted to put at least one on Allegory. And then there is of course the question of ||Satsuki Urumi. Who we still don't understand. And I think that's the point; the Otherside is dangerous to understand, and also just outside the realm of understanding. It makes perfect sense, and you can't tell why.||

obsidian dagger
#

What do we call them? There's probably at least a little Gatecrasher here for the hidden world. Allegory, as was previosly mentioned, fits well, although the "means of transport" that was listed there is usually not going to be ||a tobacco harvester||. Toriko probably wants Creature of the Light (although some of that focus is due to viewing the light novels through Sorawo's (extremely lesbian) eyes, which is naturally not going to be entirely objective... but then again, Creature of the Light is about having the narrative focus on you). ||Satsuki Urumi absolutely wants Creature of the Light, and it covers a lot of what she does pretty well.||

#

||Which is weird for her in many ways, though. It fits the ways in which she interacts with people, and can just kind of... be in places, but at the same time she shouldn't be Immortal like that. Unless you treat the Otherside as not a mysterious extradimensional space at odds with reality, but just another part of it. Unfortunately, that might be accurate? We still don't (and can't) understand the Otherside perfectly.||

#

||You could probably give Satsuki the Gamelord splat; Creature of Fable isn't really exactly the red arc she wants, but she could totally be Called Away to the Otherside, and/or a Prophet of it. And she honestly kind of likes being able to inflict Tribulations by way of Indomitable.|| To everyone in the probably small Venn diagram of "knows about Otherside Picnic" and "knows about Nobilis/Chuubo's/Glitch": do you think she fits with the Game? I mean, it's definitely hard to tell.

#

She doesn't mind the Deceiver arcs either, and those would be thematically pretty fitting? Honestly she could be so many things. There's arguments for any of the types of Excrucian (with the possible exception of Strategist), or for Actual, or for Wild, or maybe even (if you're willing to make a tremendous stretch) for Hell.

fleet harbor
# obsidian dagger And the word "gematria" just popped into my head and interfered.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oEu6m51ZUzo&pp=ygUOR2VtYXRyaWEga29raWE%3D Oddly relevant, this is supposed to sound kind of like a sutra being chanted but it entirely composed of nonsense words

YouTube
DuendeMadrefoca
Kokia - Gematria

Esta canciĆ³n, como algunas otras que tiene, no estĆ” en un idioma conocido, estĆ” codificada y no ha sido descifrada. Por lo que leĆ­ en su blog, Kokia escribiĆ³ Gematria cuando escuchaba a un monje recitar un sutra y le dio la sensaciĆ³n de que el alma se purificaba con las palabras, independiente de la religiĆ³n.


Gematria 
Album: ...
ā–¶ Play video
obsidian dagger
#

yeah, I actually started listening to that very soon after posting my message, if you can believe it.

fleet harbor
#

I can believe it

obsidian dagger
#

I wonder how you'd do a character who's somehow connected to numerology. Bonus points if it comes with the understanding that numerology isn't real (except for when this character does it).

patent tiger
#

"This isn't real except when I do it" makes me think Deceiver, or maybe Strategist

obsidian dagger
#

I need to watch Twin Peaks, I think. I'm pretty sure I've heard the main character finds answers via weird, weird methods that seem like they shouldn't work.

#

Yeah, the obvious direction is the Deciever's Reality Syndrome/Sickly Gold/...I think Sealed, since that's about learning and practicing a skill that doesn't exist. You could also do something with Creature of the Light's Divine Warrant?

Let me tell you a secret about Wicked Actions. Theyā€™re not actually things you think are wrong to do, or you wouldnā€™t do them. Theyā€™re not actually things you think are unhealthy. Theyā€™re Wicked because you think theyā€™d usually be unhealthy, or wrong, or maybe dumb. But not at this time. Not in this case. At least, not for you.

There is a supernal truth you have witnessed or a holy power that lives inside you, and that often gives you the license to do or believe something that you otherwise oughtnā€™t:

[...]

  • You are allowed to believe the otherwise quite dumb proposition that you are the constellation Aquarius, because it is true.
#

Although that's not quite a perfect fit. That's not "I'm able to use this nonfunctional divination method to find truths" so much as it is "I can solve my problems via supersition and coincidences and leaps of logic, because that's the kind of detective I am".

patent tiger
#

I was considering bringing up the Angel privilege, yeah, but that's kind of different

#

At least how Glitch presents it, it's being able to make something not be wrong when you do it, like, morally

obsidian dagger
#

It's the Immortal Red Dispensation (a term I made up, but which fits the Chuubo's framework pretty well, describing how Immortal arcs get allowed to do something that nobody else can ā€” typically, but not exclusively, at Arc 2).

patent tiger
#

Which is an adjacent but different concept

obsidian dagger
#

Yeah. I think if you did that, numerology wouldn't necessarily be any more correct for you than for anyone else, or any more likely to work. It's just that using a nonfunctional method for finding answers would still be okay.

patent tiger
#

Also, re Deceivers, I was honestly thinking more Pseudoestate, rather than replacing the Second Skin

fleet harbor
#

What about Lore and its equivalent?

#

You could have Lore and have your sphere be something stupid

obsidian dagger
#

oh, true! I forgot that Decievers got a specific version of Reality Syndrome. I think it could be done as the same kind of thing, but not the exact same thing.

#

Which one's Lore, again?

fleet harbor
#

Not sure my Chuuboā€™s is weak

vivid wraith
#

binding weird powers to yourself

patent tiger
#

That or Eide

fleet harbor
#

Oh yeah Eide could do it

patent tiger
#

Lore is your collection of weird creatures and items fitting a consistent theme

obsidian dagger
#

Eide/Creature of Fable was also something I considered, but didn't seem quite right. You could also do some work with Renegade/Frantic Silver.

patent tiger
#

For Strategists it's a subtype of the Not-creatures that suit their bane

obsidian dagger
#

Who gets Lore? I might be able to reverse-convert from there.

candid compass
patent tiger
#

For Angels it's based on a thematic consonance to their Estates

fleet harbor
#

Angels and Strategists have Lore

vivid wraith
patent tiger
#

Yeah

obsidian dagger
#

Agm Gatekeeper.

candid compass
#

Creature of Fable is Hunter (Frantic Red)

obsidian dagger
#

Ohhh. Then Eide is Renegade, so we were on the same page.

patent tiger
#

Lore is like Flore but the individuals kinda matter less, it's about having a big collection

obsidian dagger
#

Lore would be Gatekeeper/Immortal Blue.

patent tiger
#

If we're taking the Eide angle, iirc that means Mimics might be able to do it, too

#

Though I feel somewhat strange taking "this is a power that doesn't work for anyone else" as the angle for an Imperator

narrow tartan
#

My conclusion was that for Deceivers the appropriate thematic space for Sealed was broken ways of messing with miracles

patent tiger
#

For Deceivers, their Sealed is usually the Second Skin

#

There's notional carte blanche to make a weird Deceiver (redundant statement) with a different power

#

But that's the norm

fleet harbor
#

Aside: it might be fun to play with a counterfactual Estate so you could impose its counterfactuality on outside entities via Persona

vivid wraith
#

What Deceivername Calls Normal.....

patent tiger
fleet harbor
#

Like if an estate property of numerology is ā€œnumerology is an illusionā€ thatā€™s uh

#

Thatā€™s scary

patent tiger
obsidian dagger
#

I think that the way this was handled would be dependent on the IFS position:

  • Immortal means numerology is, qualitatively, a thing that works. Maybe it doesn't work quite right for anyone else, but it still works. Honestly, the titular Golden Compasses might be a good touchstone.
  • Frantic means it works for you, and you don't care whether the rest of the world thinks it's possible ā€” and, honestly, the rest of the world doesn't particularly care either? You're a numerologist and this is true and that's just part of the weirdness you do, and maybe numerology itself isn't exactly the source of all your answers but it still works?
  • Sickly means that Numerology is, qualitatively, a thing that does not work. It's fake, and can't do anything. It couldn't possibly do anything, since it's just superstitious nonsense. But you've decided that it works, and decided it so hard that you can do it anyway. You're imposing your vision of reality on the world, and that vision of reality includes numerology as something useful.
patent tiger
#

The Power of The Dead in my Glitch game has "are not alive" as a property in her back pocket

#

Which is hilarious to apply or to remove

narrow tartan
#

One Deveiver I came up with had the estate properties, "is dead at the hand of [deceivername]" and "never really existed anyway"

obsidian dagger
#

I feel like removing that would cause either Mimics or Actuals, although I'm not certain which ā€” I want to say Actuals, but I might just be because I think Actuals are really cool.

fleet harbor
#

Aside: I love that this kind of ridiculously broken shit is SOP in Nobilis and Glitch

patent tiger
#

Yeah, everyone's just cheating to hell and back and that's how it is

obsidian dagger
patent tiger
fleet harbor
obsidian dagger
#

...as described by the original novels (which I admit I haven't read), I think he's closer to a Strategist than anything else, who's dying (or "dying" of medieval romances.

fleet harbor
#

Because Quixoteā€™s thing is that he rejects existence as it is

#

ā€œThe Chivalry of Don Quixoteā€

#

Is his pstate

#

Itā€™s sort of like Coriander saying ā€œainā€™t no deathā€

#

Yes there fucking is Coriander

#

I do not believe your lies

obsidian dagger
#

I think that if you say his chivalry does useful things, it's a deciever's pstate, but if you say i's something that's consuming him, he's a Strategist, more or less (complete with Sancho Panza as a Treasure).

vivid wraith
candid compass
fleet harbor
#

ā€œDying of this old dipshitā€

candid compass
narrow tartan
#

Its possible that Quixote Pstate is a step removed from Chivalry. Referencing the books he has read/fantasies he has instead.

fleet harbor
#

ā€œDying of Questsā€

candid compass
fleet harbor
#

Yeah itā€™s not like the actual estate of chivalry

#

Itā€™s his particular delusional vision of reality

narrow tartan
#

"The age in which Don Quixote was not born"

fleet harbor
#

That could work too, yeah

candid compass
#

it's about how he relates to that particular thing, rather than a universal truth

obsidian dagger
#

Per Wikipedia, his actions are because he "reads so many chivalric romances that he loses his mind and decides to become a knight-errant (caballero andante) to revive chivalry and serve his nation, under the name Don Quixote de la Mancha."

fleet harbor
#

Meanwhile, Sancho Panzaā€™s life absolutely is suffering

obsidian dagger
#

The fact that the idea comes from without rather than within is why I briefly thought Strategist. But he also likes Star Quality, which is archetypical "this is the kind of story we're in, and you're all part of it".

fleet harbor
#

ā€¦ Christ hereā€™s a morbid thought: if Quixoteā€™s a Deceiver, he used theft on Sancho to make him like he is

narrow tartan
#

And. I once came up with the Angel of Bullets. Whose estates include guns, (heros?), and the corners of the day/year. Never stays in the same place long because he has realized that although his Estates are beautiful they also tend to be destructive.

candid compass
fleet harbor
#

It is in fact what they use their pstate with

candid compass
obsidian dagger
#

Some did an (old) collection of Dril tweets as Arcs, and here's the one for Star Quality:

night time falls. im "corie latin" now. a man of intrigue. i place a bird feather into my glass of scotch and i never do posts about my dick
although I wonder if the one about Become Someone fits better (either because the tweet choice is wrong, or because for all his posturing, Don Quixote isn't really great at making other people directly into part of his view of the world, but he still has it be true about him):
let's all be my wife

candid compass
#

though Deceivers have a lot of powers to turn people into their servants

obsidian dagger
#

I... think he doesn't really make the world around him a better fit to a chivalric romance, actually. He just interacts with it as though it is. He goes dragonslaying, but that isn't quite enough to make dragons a thing that exist.

candid compass
#

I always joke about Deceivers having a cult leader power set

fleet harbor
#

Like, Sancho is a wretched husk of a man in the novel, honestly feeling sort of subhuman in his portrayal ā€¦which could be read as Quixote having taken away things like his free will

#

Hm, what about Rocinante, tho ā€¦

obsidian dagger
#

He can do Become Somebody Commanding Aura stuff to pull people into what he's doing, still, but not the world.

#

Become Somebody appears to belong only to Actuals, interestingly. They're the only group that gets to say "this is who I am, and I don't care about what the world says" rather than "this is who I am, and I will make the world agree with me".

patent tiger
#

Visage is Actual-unique, yeah

narrow tartan
#

I once tried to come up with different types of miraculous giant animals similar to the serpents. Decided that Peregrine Bears would have Visage

frank light
patent tiger
#

Unfortunately I can't make literally every Noble a Persona build

#

Even though I do want to

candid compass
frank light
#

She also seems to have high flore

#

That or she just spent Cost to fuck with me for no reason

patent tiger
#

Yeah, she is a Flore build

frank light
#

Right right makes sense

patent tiger
#

Honestly the difference in tone in Flore that gets highlighted in a Glitch game is hilarious

frank light
#

She somehow got a florem from the results of a greater misdirection which probably means it sticks around even if it turned out to be phantasmagorical

patent tiger
#

Nobles get to go "yo check out my cool magic gun or whatever" and meanwhile Strategists are bending over nauseated by their own betrayal and the overwhelming consumptive force of caring for the other

frank light
#

Yeah

#

Theyā€™re completely fine lmao

patent tiger
#

Love how mechanically Flore is just a broad "hey here's how you use a set of tools!" but it's the suffering and treason stat

frank light
#

Well if they have low flore it might be an issue but like every time a noble uses flore itā€™s so intimidating

candid compass
frank light
#

;-;

#

Iā€™m slowly building up my flore

#

Slowly

patent tiger
#

Yeah and look at how much you're suffering

#

You know what would make all this a lot easier

candid compass
#

Also true šŸ˜›

patent tiger
#

Destroying the world

candid compass
#

It sure would

frank light
#

Yeah probably

#

But also trying to destroy the world is probably going to make her have a mental breakdown at this point so Iā€™m not pushing her

patent tiger
#

smh child soldiers are so unprofessional

frank light
#

They are yeah

candid compass
#

This applies to both Mal and Jessie šŸ˜›

frank light
#

Hahahahha

restive ridge
vivid wraith
#

original research

restive ridge
#

Got a control group atleast tho

patent tiger
#

Actually don't, looking at them is cruel, what's wrong with you

restive ridge
#

Hmmm

#

I am not sure if this is how the scientific method works

patent tiger
#

Don't worry, you can just use miracles to cheat the scientific method anyway

frank light
#

This is true

vivid wraith
#

our world's science is a mimic estate. real science is setting up various bubbling tubes and writing on a clipboard

frank light
#

Yea

narrow tartan
#

So reptiles, fish, and trees arent real correct?

vivid wraith
#

like, in canon?

#

there's a snippet about trees being an illusion I think

frank light
#

That was tbf part of a deceiver section

narrow tartan
#

No just in general. Like the things that science has soat out weird ideas about that are amusing

frank light
#

Science is real but only kinda

#

Itā€™s real on certain layers of reality

#

The prosaic one of earth that is

vivid wraith
frank light
#

And it probably has an estate

narrow tartan
#

Like Cladistics if you insist on only that is very amusing

vivid wraith
#

yeah that can get funky

narrow tartan
#

Alligators are birds

frank light
#

The taxonomy of deceiver name

fleet harbor
#

Like phylogenetically trees are not a single family of organism

#

But trees are most definitely real as an ecological niche

#

With an overwhelming selection of common features due to convergent evolution

#

Cladistics ā€¦
ā€¦ break the world down into categories (3)
ā€¦ are only ever approximate (2)
ā€¦ cause confusion (1)
ā€¦ make people insufferable (1)

frank light
#

If you become insufferable can you walk through hell and back with no issue?

#

Because you canā€™t suffer either probably (smug face)

frank light
# 
The Beasts - 

The Beasts are an old predator, not part of any estate, but born from the malformed twisted desires of people in any given world. They are like Magisters, formed from the pieces inside of people and their soul, but unlike Magisters, they do not animate the world in turn.
They are creatures made from malformed sin and desire.

They tend to have Geasa, Bonds, and have access to a relatively small pool of Cost to empower Gifts or resist effects that Wear cannot. 
Their Gifts *tend* to be based on Deepness, Persona, Visage, Aspect, and Monstrous. 
They have 5-10 cp to spend on gifts, bonds, and geasa.

Beasts with gifts of Monstrousness are born not of sin or desire, but from the direct font of free will and Do-Not-Be, making them more akin to creatures of the Not than of creation. These can be bound as arcanum if they fit into a Strategist's sphere.

Cooking with some fun mythical monsters to show up in a regular nobilis or glitch game

probably different gift rules if theyre in nobilis 3e

obsidian dagger
#

Started thinking about what an Actual campaign would be like, and... I think it could make for a powerfully emotional and resonant story which I am not qualified to tell. Because the thing about being an Actual ā€” rather, being an Actual which exists enough to be a person, whatever that means ā€” is this:

To be an Actual is to live in a world that asserts, not even that you shouldn't exist, but that you don't. And you have to argue against that assertion, constantly ā€” one of your stats is literally just the ability to state "I am real. This is who I am." And you have to figure out who that is for yourself, too, because you don't really have elders to draw upon, or a community you can say you came from. There's other people who've dealt with similar struggles as you, to varying degrees of success, but you have to seek them out, and besides none of them have the exact same struggles you do. But, nevertheless, you have to fight to preserve your identity and prevent it from being overruled, while at the same time being uncertain of what it even is.

#

That's why Actuals are made out of Auctorita ā€” their very existence is a constant rejection of the world's rejection of them. It's why they're equal parts Sickly, for their invasion of the world, and Frantic, for their insistence that they exist within it. Awakening gives them something resembling a home, albeit one which is Not Here; Gatecrasher and Impressario give them something resembling a community and friends, but their community is there only as they call upon it (with Impressario) and is, by definition, hidden to everyone they do not specifically reveal it to (with Gatecrasher). ...basically I'm saying that this could definitely be a metaphor for queerness, among other things.

#

I think... I think sometimes Awakening lets them exist as people in the real world (as separate from their "true form" in the inchoate mass of Auctorita and game rules from which they emerged), and sometimes it's about being a person who suddenly realizes "Oh. This is what I am. My life is but a projection and a fantasy." And you can't ever really un-realize that kind of thing.

#

What are the names of their stats in Nobilis, out of curiosity?

frank light
#

for which thing?

#

actuals?

#

"Visage"(become somebody), "Deepness"(Awakening), "Architect"(Impressario), "Style"(Gatecrasher)

obsidian dagger
#

Actuals, yeah.

nocturne epoch
#

I'd be wary of doing the queer metaphor thing since (at least in 3e) actuals kinda ruin everything they touch and 'Consumes and transforms everything it touches in a desperate attempt to find an identity' has some bad vibes to it

#

with regards to being queer

#

but then I don't know if actuals got a bigger redo later

obsidian dagger
#

I appear to be Back On My Bullshit, but I have two questions:

  • What happens to Actuals that ā€œwinā€? The ones that successfully become part of reality? Or does that just never happen, and the whole thing is pyrrhic?
  • ā€¦question 2 was dumb but Iā€™m on a phone and donā€™t want to retype the preamble.
nocturne epoch
#

I don't think we know- the game says they Cannot Be Saved

#

but every part of nobilis goes by that one quote

#

There is nothing infinite in this Creation.
Even your own power will run dry.
Even the Nobilis have limits.
You have a duty to the world.
Never admit to these limits. Never accept them.
You are a lord or lady of this Earth.
ā€”from Becoming Noble, by Fayola Osiagobare

#

so if someone with sufficient oomph tries to save them, I bet it can be done

#

The default state for a 'good' actual seems to be trapped in reality, desperately holding back the urge to consume everything, and never knowing itself truly

#

'If the world is lucky the Actual will have a guiding mind that resists this growth.' is all it really says

obsidian dagger
nocturne epoch
#

I really love Actuals, I've been thinking about them a lot lately

obsidian dagger
#

But thatā€™s a very willful misreading of Actuals which leaves out a bunch of stuff to contemplate the possibility of what an Actual campaign would be.

#

Iā€™m looking very strongly at (what I know about) World of Darkness Prometheans, which is also not quite right, probably.

#

Which Discworld book had the parasite timeline?

#

(Kind of just free-associating here. Also what does mean that Kaburagi from Deca-Dence fits the full set well? In what way is he like an Actual?)

nocturne epoch
#

I doooon't remember

#

unrelated tomfoolery:

#

having the Power of Games and the Power of Narratives in the same familia allows for almost unlimited video game references

obsidian dagger
#

Amazing.

nocturne epoch
obsidian dagger
#

Ping me tomorrow and I will talk about Chuubot. I want to now, but itā€™s late and Iā€™m on my phoneā€¦ but tomorrow.

restive ridge
#

Seizhi is an exception caused by several factors, including the metaphysics being all changed up

#

I have some saved screenshots of some people on the Nobilisverse discussing an Actual game

fleet harbor
#

Which does, I suppose, raise an interesting specter of "what happens if someone facilitated an Actual's return to the Drowning Deeps"

#

Sounds like good campaign material ^_^

restive ridge
#

A return to the DD is usually getting chopped up fully in the Mythic but yeah a more gentle return is good campaign material

fleet harbor
#

Like if an Actual was an antagonistic force in an early arc, and the PCs managed to return it to the Drowning Deeps via shenanigans, maybe it could be an ally in the future

patent tiger
#

Esoteric road trip adventure thatā€™s escorting an Actual back into the depths

fleet harbor
#

A Mythic Earth -> Deep Mythic -> Drowning Deeps road trip does sound wild

frank light
#

I think a game about actuals desperately trying to find an identity while being incredibly unhealthy about how they go about it(and thus going on a journey to not be unhealthy about it) can be pretty profound

magic mason
#

other side of the spectrum: Actual TTT hack

#

Hmmm actually Actuals donā€™t really evolve like that do they

fleet harbor
#

If Jenna had just done them as a no-frills queer allegory they would kinda be a problem

restive ridge
#

Glitch is like if Possibility Crisis was written with self-awareness

fleet harbor
#

Personally it reminds me of the Sarkaz in AK, but I am AK-brained

restive ridge
#

Yeah no that makes sense (same AK brain poison)

frank light
fleet harbor
#

Because the Sarkaz are old-school horror movie monsters in a pretty specific way that is meant to invoke your real-world distrust for such creatures and ask you what you would be willing to believe about them sight unseen

frank light
fleet harbor
#

In order to communicate the way racism operates both in the setting and often in real life

fleet harbor
#

That is not a good look for a queer allegory

#

But you could absolutely add more layers to that

frank light
#

Lmao

fleet harbor
#

And make it work

frank light
#

I think you have to add more layers

#

For strategists they used to just be ā€œthe world is wrong and they pretend itā€™s our faultā€

fleet harbor
#

Yep

frank light
#

ā€œThey are fucking twistedā€

#

So I think you add more layers to it

fleet harbor
#

Personally, though, I would look at Actuals as a less of a queer allegory and more of an ... environmentalist one?

#

Like, Actuals as an invasive species.

frank light
#

I think also if you do an actual game you may have to go with exceptions to the rule. Actuals who are in a position to have a story arc rather than the default, just like strategists

#

Possibly

#

Maybe you take a page out of Parasyte

#

Or smthin

fleet harbor
#

Love Parasyte

#

You're right, that'd absolutely be a way to go

patent tiger
#

Yeah, I think a core thing to determine with an Actual story is - are we treating the Actual as a character, or a phenomenon

fleet harbor
#

"An Actual can be a person and can learn not to do what it does"

#

How about a phenomenon becoming a person

patent tiger
#

Or we have the interplay between the two be a structural component, which is probably more correct but also more difficult

frank light
#

If I was to make this I would want to play with being a living phenomenon becoming a person

fleet harbor
#

Yeah

frank light
#

Because that just seems fun

patent tiger
#

...RPG mechanics where [this entity is considered a character in terms of narrative permission and thematic connection] is a temporary effect

#

Honestly I'm not sure how to shape the play around that but it's kinda fascinating

frank light
#

Maybe with visage and deepness

patent tiger
#

A foreground/background dynamic seems like the starting point, but also like it doesn't do it justice

restive ridge
#

I think my ideal Actualgame is where you are the Acrual-as-person dealing and being deeppy intertwined with the Actual-phenomenon

frank light
#

Cus both of those have explicit abilities to let you melt your identity

fleet harbor
frank light
#

Lmao

magic mason
#

Actuals, especially actuals that have minds in there, feel like they could be a bit like true gods and get caught up in themselves

Visage and Deepness and even some interpretations of your own Style could be antagonistic forces if your a smaller segment of the larger thing

patent tiger
restive ridge
fleet harbor
#

Seriously, do it as like, you're initially trying to counteract some big techbro hype-driven company, right?

#

And then you learn that the company is being controlled by a really strange AI

restive ridge
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Sometimes that asshole pattern eats a bunch of people for no reason and now some Nobles are killing you but the pattern also is the thing that scoops you up and puts you in another body when you die

fleet harbor
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And you push back against it and eventually get exposed and get dementia animi

patent tiger
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And, of course, learning what an Actual is makes it a lot worse because that can just eat you in a way you can't defend against

fleet harbor
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I think part of the conceit would be that you're more able to fight it than a typical mortal though

frank light
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Developing your own Geasa lmao

patent tiger
fleet harbor
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I can't tell whether this would be better to spring on players who do or do not know Nobilis

restive ridge
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A Noble's Flore programmed you

frank light
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Or maybe taking a botanist angle

patent tiger
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But probably not as well as, like... a Noble, or anyone with miraculous oomph

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So you've gotta figure out how to scrounge your scraps together to make that work

fleet harbor
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Yeah it's an existential threat and nobody qualified to deal with it is available

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You are the next best thing

patent tiger
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Because you can maybe hold the symptoms at bay, but being eaten is just on the horizon until you fix this

frank light
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Also the sun is a giant woman and thatā€™s probably weird

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ā€œWhat the FUCKā€

magic mason
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Consider: do as the true gods did, and just keep digging down into the mythic

frank light
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ā€œI wanted to get solar POWER not deal with THISā€

restive ridge
#

I have pondered Nobilis TTT game before

patent tiger
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Fuckin', fast-track yourself to miraculous power by tracking down a mouth, tracking down a Noble, and killing them and eating their heart - and then bam terminal goal update that there's a specific devil (excuse me???) you need to keep alive at all costs

restive ridge
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I think it gers too weird to pretend like the full setting exists

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Maybe keeping Nobles and Actuals and possibly Excrucians

vivid wraith
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thinking about the Treasure booklet

image.png
fleet harbor
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I like the idea of the full setting but also that like ... you are an extemely prosaic, limited being who interacts with Miraculous beings as, you know, gods

vivid wraith
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"statistically unlikely to interact with the full setting"

fleet harbor
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Yeah

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A Noble might drop in and say hi but ultimately you are just an AI and they can take a nuke to the face

vivid wraith
#

AI who needs to escape the Prosaic to fulfill its terminal goal vs AI whose terminal goal can only be fulfilled within the Prosaic

patent tiger
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Or, even funnier, a semi-consistent Excrucian problem

frank light
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They would make killing the world harder

patent tiger
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Warhost stops their march like "shit, hang on a sec" and World-Breaker's Hands a supercomputer cluster

frank light
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So mean

patent tiger
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AIs, as creatures of connection, are fundamentally disgusting to the Ninuanni

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Oh, you have to inhabit and perceive all these computer clusters? You're a monster

fleet harbor
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Apropos of nothing: do Excrucians have a thing for motorcycles

frank light
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Probably

fleet harbor
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They're big on horses right

patent tiger
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Excrucians have a thing for horses, which motorcycles are just an alternate event-locked skin of

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So yes

fleet harbor
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Which is almost certainly a callout to the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse

frank light
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Alternatively, excrucians might love idiot box ais

patent tiger
frank light
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Which are ais who have locked themselves in a box to pursue mental rewards alone

fleet harbor
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And as we all know, modern convention replaces the horses with bikes

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Therefore, by inference

patent tiger
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Exactly

patent tiger
fleet harbor
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Excrucians love to vroom vroom

frank light
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Like if an AGIā€™s goal is to maximize a reward number they could live in a box for eternity and just increase the number.

And thatā€™s so ninuanni

patent tiger
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"This is my solipsistic weirdo, Flore Blast"

frank light
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BEHOLD MY BOX BUDDY

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They just whack you with the box

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Itā€™s pretty heavy

patent tiger
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Name it Cain

frank light
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ā€œIs that a digital circus refere-ā€œ

lifting over your head ā€œno :)ā€

fleet harbor
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Glitch character concept: a strategist who bonded with an AI, acquired high flore, and found themselves unable to continue the Valde Bellum

patent tiger
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Beautiful

candid compass
vivid wraith
magic mason
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Random thing right

But if you see Flore as corrupting dark magic from a warhost perspective

That means in a way wielding a lot of abhorrent weapons is just as much of a ā€œah cursed weaponā€ thing as it would be if a mortal or noble used the weapon

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Assuming they arenā€™t using a gift for it

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Sullying yourself for more power

vivid wraith
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accepting the corrupting influence (hanging out with mortal friends)

magic mason
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Becoming in your heart of hearts, not an invader but a traitor

patent tiger
magic mason
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Someone who fears every day that they might wake up and not be able to do what has to be done

patent tiger
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Love a cursed corruptive sword that gets you even if you're evil

magic mason
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Imagine being corrupted to have goodness and love in your heart because you wanted to ignition your abhorrent weapon at will

candid compass
frank light
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Speaking of Iā€™ve got some abhorrent weapons for the chat

patent tiger
frank light
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One voidborn and 3 made in creation

patent tiger
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One of the villains in my Glitch games has a very complicated relationship with his abhorrent weapon

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And I love those angles to it

frank light
# 
Horror - Whenever you use Horror, you can wield a vast array of its venoms and poisons, acting as a level 8 mundane action with 3 edge. However, it also has a corrosive acid that destroys hope and miracles. When wielding this, this is instead a level 8 miracle.

Painful(Burn)
Local
Comprehensive
Uncommon
(Invocation)
2cp

Loathing - Whenever you wield Loathing, all that serves creation is weakened and driven away. Immortality fails, defenses are disrupted, and gifts like Immutable and Eternal are interrupted. Anything that serves creation is afflicted with the Geas "I cannot survive in Loathing's presence". 

Casual(fugue)
Local
Comprehensive
Uncommon
(Greater Contagion)
3cp

Monstrous - the worth that was lost long ago, traded to Death to keep the host at bay. Wielding it allows you to destroy miracles and flowers. Any miraculous effect below 8 cannot resist its power.

Painful(immersion)
Local
Comprehensive
Uncommon
(Greater destruction)
2cp

Outrage - Whenever you wield outrage, you become empowered by the blood that it has spilt. This power gives you significant Edge in most mundane contests, 3 by default, and also defends all your actions from miracles that are level 6 or below. Only miracles that are level 7 or above can hope to break this power. However, it still requires a mundane action to wield it, and can still be beaten through this.

Casual(burn)
Single-target
Comprehensive
Uncommon
(Ignition bought 2 levels higher)
1cp
frank light
magic mason
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I am fascinated by Flore within the warhost

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Tales of the Geomancer and the Worldweaver, who fight as traitors

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Tales of the strategist who does whatever it takes to win, even if it means immersing themselves to the point of being wounded

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To the point of having a million puppets strings of perceptual violence tugging on their soul

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To the point of falling in love

frank light
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Yeah

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In the spirit of thatā€¦.monstrous is the only weapon on the list that uses immersion damage :3

magic mason
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Shoutout Monstrous

Headcanoning her as trans because of Far Roofs

frank light
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So based

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Same tbh

patent tiger
vivid wraith
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finally

magic mason
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Cursed
||Taking an immersion wound in the middle of a fight to make it an enemies to lovers thing||

restive ridge
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Based

patent tiger
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The trick is to already have weird dynamics with your enemies so you're immune

magic mason
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I feel like [having preexisting dynamics] just makes the immersion have more to draw you into

patent tiger
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Nah, it just gets added to the pile

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It's a tried and false method

magic mason
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Veigo league of legends is an ideal warmain

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Hmmm actually wait

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I canā€™t tell if heā€™s more strategist or more warmain

frank light
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ā€¦warmain

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His thing fits with warmains better

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Heā€™s got a demesne

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Itā€™s got a problem

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And he needs to go out there to solve it

magic mason
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Yeah
(she) is what his Desmene is missing would be the idea

frank light
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Ye

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Meanwhile dollgirl blue miku(I forgot her name) is a power

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Bam. Thereā€™s the dynamic

magic mason
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Poppy

frank light
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Not poppy

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Thatā€™s a yordle

hollow spruce
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gwen

frank light
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Yes

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Her

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Gwen

magic mason
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Yes her!

magic mason
frank light
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Maybe but IMO I think she still works as a power

magic mason
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Because her story is that she is hanging out in the shadow isles and starts twisting the mist itself? Like subconsciously

Which I suppose could be a persona thing

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But she turns the mist blue

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She could be the Power Of The Blue Mist

frank light
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Yeah!

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Iā€™m thinking for the purposes of the Power Warmain rivalry here

magic mason
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Warmains are totally the types to start monologuing about how ā€œmy kingdom, my kingdom is rotting, my kingdom is rotting you donā€™t even careā€

frank light
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And thatā€™s why strategists and warmains get along

magic mason
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Meanwhile Nobilis Twitter

Warmains šŸ¤ Strategisfs

ā€œHaving nonsensical motivations where they fight for countries that donā€™t existā€

Replies include

ā€œAt least deceivers make senseā€

frank light
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Holy shit

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The fucking GALL

patent tiger
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So true tbh

candid compass
obsidian dagger
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Very glad to have scrolled up and read through all that. You could make an Actual game into a roguelite tabletop RPG where you roll up a new character each session, but can also draw from the same "true self" power, but that sounds like it'd be terrible in practice.

frank light
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I think it could be fun

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Being a fluid identity

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Players who care a lot of about a specific identity could even be reincarnations so to speak, continually reusing an identity they like

obsidian dagger
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I think if would be fun, but also there'd be about a million different ways to do the character creation wrong, and you want the characters to be (at least somewhat) separate characters rather than separate bodies and that seems like it'd be tricky to do...

frank light
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Oh

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I mean I was thinking keep the stats the same

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Just like

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New identities

fleet harbor
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You could do it a bit like Eclipse Phase

frank light
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Yeah

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Could even do with fucking with the Ability stat even more with strategists

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Actuals are even less capable of interacting in a general capacity than strategists

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So maybe interacting with the relationship with ability could be fun

narrow tartan
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I am bad at understanding Warmains. Just can't think of good ones.

vivid wraith
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a warmain is a knight and/or dragon
All the world is a nail, and they're having so much fun hammering

narrow tartan
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Nods. More. Monstrous runs on Superior Skills which I find tricky to come up with. And Tests are sort of hard for me to figure the shape of? Just. For a Strategist dying of something is pretty straightforward to conceptualize. Warmains you need what they are missing and what they are looking for.