#Jenna Moran Games (Nobilis, Chuubo's, Glitch, WTF)

1 messages · Page 4 of 1

hollow spruce
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Like obviously an estate property list cannot contain the entirety of what something is, but then how is the rest of All That put in relation to what Is definied

rapid shore
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I just assume its because Creation is collectively self-referential

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none of the Estates exist Independently

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so they're all propped up in a big chain with no end

fleet harbor
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I kind of conceptualize Estates as potentially changing their properties though

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As they interact, as their Powers shape them, as they shape their Powers

rapid shore
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same, especially given some of the stuff on actuals

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or how Imperators can resurrect lost estates

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its adaptable

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I guess I'd consider this to be the stickiness of it

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its the part thats harder to seperate - in my head its like the other unspecified properties are Mortal Intentions to the Properties Miracles.
They don't nessasarily conflict, but if they do the properties win.

magic mason
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Angel of Existence and Meaning

vivid wraith
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funky fella

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not the same as cneph! intriguing

magic mason
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There is also The Angel Of Time

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that guy feels pretty up there

patent tiger
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I think by now, it is a case where, even if Firstborn died, not all of Creation would inherentlly fall apart

rapid shore
hollow spruce
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How do you fill in those gaps

patent tiger
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That's a good question! Probably a lot different than it currently does

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But I'm not sure that'd be it, y'know?

magic mason
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Higgs field collapse type shit

rapid shore
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the Not still kinda has Not-Existence

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(Assuming ninuan is actually a place)

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so theres at least some difference in Creational Existence and... whatever the property of something-being-able-to-be-referenced is

magic mason
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I love phrasing Chuubo's arcs badly like
"I think its very funny that melancholic people can turn into symbolically rich kaiju and create minions"

patent tiger
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As a melancholic person, I can do that

vivid wraith
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ideal

frank light
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there are implied to be some estates that are like
big pillars of creation

where if they were to fall it would be a huge blow to the general integrity of everything

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like Time and Existence and Meaning

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maybe not full death but like

knock out enough super big ones and you might not need to take out the rest

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love falling stars

frank light
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Digest - Chomp Chomp! You can, in theory, digest *anything*. There is nothing that you *can't* consume and digest. Granted, you'll need to find a way how, but its never impossible to find a way to eat something. It's only *hard*. 
It'll feed you! It'll nourish you! Maybe you even gain some cosmetic benefits in the form of edge depending on what you eat! 
But thats mostly it. As a strategist, your consumption only destroys.

(Destruction)(4)
(Automatic)+1
(single-target)-3
(limited)-3
(Uncommon)+1

1cp

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based on the Primordial/Symbolic ability

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unfortunately not a Wish

hollow spruce
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DE skills for my glitch PC Gaulmara because I have received New Mission From God:

VAGABOND: Smuggler, thief, gangster, bandit. You've been them all. You need something, you get it; locks and laws are no concern. Live the life of crime, know the people that live it just like you, and find a different kind of freedom.

WATERSHED: It all rolls off your shoulders. Time, commitments, curses and fears. You've seen so much, gone so far. Nothing could faze you now. What is there left to weigh you down? Just keep walking, keep breathing, keep living.

ACQUIRED TASTE: You find the weird out there, and you tangle yourself in it. You sip from your cup of blood as you solve a wizard's murder. You lose yourself in strange places and strange people, and learn a little more on yourself as you go.

MELANCHOLY: The skies are gray and the air cold. Everything hurts, everything is hard and depressing and it feels like you couldn't make it another day. And it seems everybody else feels the same way, sometimes. So you sit down and you talk with them, pouring your hearts out to let them feel a little lighter.

RHYTHM: Music is so beautiful. There's something about how it links together, how it inspires so much with so little. It'll be the death of you, of course, again and again. But for now, you just follow that wonderful sound. Inspiration and beauty comes from anywhere; express it.
frank light
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sharing this edit i made of my strategist

image.png
grand knot
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Oh wisher theurgist fatalist is wtf

patent tiger
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Verily

vivid wraith
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probably already known to the wise, but this is a very informative list

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(informative because it suggests Jenna has read Umineko)

restive ridge
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Emperor Leto and Aang in the same Arc implies a lot

candid compass
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Jenna reads Worm
nice

rapid shore
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scary....

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this one was from 2013

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but even more recently,

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worm jumpscare

restive ridge
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Oh thats actually a fun Word of Command Wound

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Affliction(5): My Estate is trying to Fucking Murder Me

frank light
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WORM JUMSPCARE

obsidian dagger
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...on that topic: toss me a character and, if I know who they are (and/or can learn it from conversation with you) I'll help pick out arcs for them. I know I did one for Adventure Time.

vivid wraith
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do you remember N
from Pokemon

obsidian dagger
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I will never in my life forget N.

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Though I don't know as much about BW2? But in terms of his arc over the first games... hm.

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He's dogmatic, and needs to learn that his dogma is wrong, and also that he's being manipulated... I feel like I know that particular arc quest structure, but I can't remember which it is (my gut says something Blue).

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It's tempting to give him a Purple arc to represent Team Plasma, but that's wrong. He's the de jure leader of Team Plasma, but the de facto leader is Ghetsis, and/or the Sages. He doesn't really control them, either directly, or from a narrative perspective.

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...this is weird, but I'm kind of tempted to give him Reality Syndrome. Normally a protagonist who wanders around collecting allies would be on something Purple, but I think the fact that powers come from tamed pokemon rather than innate abilities is a campaign convention, and so that's the default. N goes on Reality Syndrome because, while everyone else's battling capability is based on which specific team they've trained, N's is based on which local pokemon he can befriend for that one battle, and that orthogonal measure of capability is very much a Reality Syndrome thing.

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...gimme a sec to check the PDFs for quest structures to see if I was right about his arc over the course of the game looking vaguely Blue.

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Now that I'm looking at the quest descriptions for each stage of an arc, Knight might be looking slightly better?

Quest 1 is about figuring out what you want to be.
Quest 2 is about the vice that gets in your way.
Quest 3 is an experience that shakes up your role.
Quest 4 is about making up for your mistakes.
Quest 5 is about becoming something better than you were.
I still need to check all of them, though. N on a Knight arc was not what I was expecting, but I can see where it would come from?

patent tiger
vivid wraith
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"figure out who you want to be" the hero, the liberator of Pokemon, etc.
"Become something better than you were" moving beyond Plasma

obsidian dagger
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It might, but I'm tempted to say BW2 should be a separate arc than BW? I don't know enough about BW2. I also don't know how much if at all he actually shows up in those games.

patent tiger
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He does

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But also, yeah, I'd agree that it feels like a separate arc

obsidian dagger
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They could both be Knight arcs, though.

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...I'm wondering if or how you'd represent the SV protagonist in Chuubo's. Probably they have Sentimental (the start of The Way Home is literally opened by having Treasures, and they don't fit any of the other Purple arcs), but I want to put them onto a Red/Storyteller Arc for describing the actual events of the game? (Or at least the main game, but you could argue that they repeat it?)

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A Storyteller Arc will go something like this:

  • Quest 1 is told in a mood of interest and excitement.
  • Quest 2 is more of a mood of determination, stubbornness, or pride.
  • Quest 3 is more about confusion, puzzlement, and being a little lost.
  • Quest 4 is more about transcendence—rising above the world and yourself.
  • Quest 5 is more about katabasis—about a mythical descent into the underworld, place of death, or the coast. (That is, “dealing with grief” and “become queen of the beach” both work well.) Less metaphorically, you have something really rough to deal with and you deal with it here.
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but this is a digression. I need to double-check to figure out what arc N would be taking in the hopes it helps me pin down what arc he has?

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Dangit... Allegory gets A Legendary Weapon at arc 0 not arc 1, otherwise I'd want to put him as Allegory 0 at the start of BW, Allegory 1 at the end?

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The main thing N means is... not Team Plasma, but "the idea that humans can hurt Pokemon". The main things he does in B/W are:

  • Appear out of nowhere
  • Have a distinctive appearance/manner, to the point of (subtly) breaking the rules of reality in order to enforce and maintain said distinct "appearance"; this should theoretically help pin things down a lot but I'm having a little bit of trouble deciding where it goes (Creature of Fable? Creature of the Light?)
  • Monologue mysteriously
  • Know more than he should
  • Challenge the PC's beliefs
  • Express and act out some primordial concept of Truth/Ideals. The fact that he's expressing a concept, not an element... hm.
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I could also see N on Mystic. I think he has taken at least one Mystic arc at some point in the past?

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  1. This quest is built of portents. You know something is coming. You can feel that something is coming.
    The person you’ve been... is going to have to die. And something new, be born.
    Result. You are confronted by a miracle.
  1. You’re courted and tempted by your “opposite number”—by someone who’s playing in the same basic cosmology you are, but for the other team. [...]
    Result. Your life falls apart. You’re betrayed by something you had faith in[,] or you’re abandoned by your own “side” in some fashion. Your spiritual pleas go unanswered.
  1. Your life’s a mess, and you’re not sure what to make of things, but over the course of this quest you hammer out a plan for moving forward.

For putting together a new life. A new purpose. A new plan.

Result. Your plan falls apart. Things get confused and out-of-control and the whole affair sort of ends with you feeling carried along by events. You might get to do something awesome, but it doesn’t feel like you had much of a chance to be consciously decisive in how it all played out.

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  1. There’s a hole in the world. Or at least a hole in the way your life is put together. It’s partly psychological but it’s symbolized by a very real monster, trap, curse, demon, or miraculous effect.
    Result. You manage to suppress it with the help of your family
    and friends. Or, if you’re completely cut off from all of those, by
    the intervention of a higher power or an unexpected friend.
    ...It’s probably not a permanent solution.
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Oh, Discord apparently automatically fixes most of the PDF Broken Formatting Jank?

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  1. This is your struggle to live as a better person; to be a blessing unto others, in spite of everything. To be the light of a miracle. To make things right.
    Result. Unknown.
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So, I think he's got a bit of Orange and Black in his DNA, either way. ...hot take here: BW is a Black arc, and B2W2 is an Orange arc going Allegory 0->1.

vivid wraith
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ooooh

obsidian dagger
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With Reshiram/Zekrom as his Legendary Weapon... unfortunately, Methods of Transport only comes in at 1+, and he would kind of like to have access to Superior Legendary Dragon Which Flies Above The Cloud Layer before he's done with his B2W2 story.

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In terms of what he has... he'd appreciate Creature of the Light for Appear. And in B2W2 there are flashbacks related to him, which I don't know enough about from the Pokemon side?

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I wonder if Divine Warrant is why, when N releases Pokemon after he no longer needs their help, it's completely moral and reasonable, even though if anyone else did that it would be shallow and selfish. (Of course, there are other differences, but the connection still remains.)

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The whole thing is complicated by the whole Truth versus Ideals kerfuffle.

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I really, really want to give him a Black arc ironically enough. I also want to note that, not only does he have a unique backstory, there are rumors that N was born from pokemon — rumors which are not, in my opinion, plausible, but are nevertheless clearly and inherently connected to him! And which, I am now realizing, further paint him as something of a messianic figure, almost.

obsidian dagger
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I kind of want to say he has a bit of Creature of the Light pre-BW, is taking a Black arc during BW (probably Prophet, because... what else would he take?), and then takes Allegory 0->1 during B2W2?

vivid wraith
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That could work

obsidian dagger
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It's not strictly necessary, but is there any splat with Allegory and Prophet?

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I don't know why I call them a splat. That's WoD jargon, and not directly applicable here. ...but still.

obsidian dagger
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I am perplexed by N. I am... how do I put this? I'm very annoyed, but in a way I'm very happy about?

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What gives a signature appearance to such an extent that it actually breaks the laws of reality?

magic mason
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(I am too eepy to say anything other than vibe)

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Setup works better

candid compass
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splat is just a quick and easy term

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but yeah currently Gamelords are the only ones with Prophet

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doesn't necessarily have to stop you though

obsidian dagger
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As much as I want Allegory 0->1... okay, "Hero of Truth/Ideals" is a pretty clear Role for an orange arc. It feels wrong to not acknowledge that in N's BW arc? At the same time, though, I do feel like a Black arc about that is probably better?

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Accidentally ran into Word of Moran supporting my thoughts on Immortal/Frantic/Sickly!

Suppose you start a random Arc of a given color. Then, after quest 1, you discover it’s Immortal (in tune with the world), Sickly (out of tune with the world), or Frantic (enh). Which Arc(s) can you reasonably be on?

frank light
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Digest - These are absolute and unquestionable truths:
 - You can digest anything you eat over the course of 2-3 hours, making it a part of you.
- There is nothing that is notionally impossible for you to devour.

If you eat something dangerous, you may still take damage. At the gm’s discretion, things you’ve eaten may give you magical powers or help recover cost.

(Greater masking)+12
(Automatic)+1
(Self only)-5
(One Trick)-5
(Uncommon)+1

4cp

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Added an ability from primordial/symbolic as a gift

obsidian dagger
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Digest is, regrettably, what I have to pick for the Immortal Black... dispensation? I don't know what to call it, exactly, but every Immortal arc except for Indomitable gets something (usually at Arc 2, but sometimes at Arc 0 or occasionally Arc 1) which makes it so that there's some action which, if anyone else did it, would be morally or factually or strategically wrong somehow, but not when you do it.

frank light
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Digest is so fun!!!!

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I love it

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Love giving random abilities from other arcs/stats to strategists

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It’s difficult but fun

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The other digest version I wrote is much weaker since it’s not a Wish effect but it is only 1cp

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And much faster

obsidian dagger
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Hm. Okay, this is weird, but I feel like you can represent N's rotating selection of Pokemon either as Creature of the Light, to make catching pokemon and then releasing them as soon as they're no longer necessary be ethical, or as Reality Syndrome, to make it so that N's team is determined by "what pokemon happen to be around" instead of "what pokemon you've been training". And N, regrettably, really, really likes all the other parts of Reality Syndrome.

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Talking to Pokemon could totally be a Bond, or even an Affliction, but N wouldn't mind Let's Talk, and could totally share his Experience of "The legend of the Twin Heroes of Truth and Ideals" with others. I don't know what his Hack would be, specifically, or what level he'd have? But (because this is a piece of trivia that amuses me, and it seems like an exquisitely Chuubo's/Nobilis/Glitch thing) I really, really want to figure out what makes it so that N universally talks too fast, to such an extent that his speech is coded differently and can break the rules of text display speed which are otherwise held by every other character across every game in the series if necessary.

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(If your text display speed is set to Slow or Normal, his dialogue displays at Fast speed. If your text display speed is set to Fast, it displays at a special even faster speed.)

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N, by his own declaration, lives on the border between human and Pokemon. And that screams Creature of Fable. But nothing else about him does.

vivid wraith
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Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised that N contains multitudes like this

obsidian dagger
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I mean, this is always very interpretive. If we look at his past life and try to figure out what would describe those portions of his life... hm. Becoming the King of Team Plasma and the Hero of Trudeals might be Orange, but it might not necessarily? In the end, I'd probably say:

  • Creature of the Light 2
  • Prophet 1 -> 2 (over the course of B/W)
  • Allegory 0 -> 1 (over the course of B2/W2)

I'm really not confident in this, though.

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His ability to speak to Pokemon is, ultimately, a Bond. He wouldn't mind something that lets him know stuff improbably because "a Pokemon told him", including knowing things about a Pokemon Trainer he's just met? That's how he usually uses this ability in practice; he meets a trainer, he talks to their pokemon, and he promptly learns who they are/where they're from. So what I'm looking for is really some flavor of "I know things" ability.

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I will be honest: I might be slightly overplaying his "people pay attention to him" abilities because out-of-universe I thought he was neat and paid attention to him ||and probably thought he was lowkey hot when I was first playing the games and that skewed things||.

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||I feel obliged to note that he's 20 in BW, which is what I played, and 22 in B2W2.||

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Yeah, I think he's more likely to have Reality Syndrome 2 than Creature of the Light 2?

obsidian dagger
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Presented without context:

His students, or at least helpful NPC students A and B, are concerned, and try to help through things like setting him up on dates with the Prince of Cats’ skyship and entering him in Horizon’s “largest potato” contest.

(Not every helpful student is helpful.)

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It's kind of weird to have Reality Syndrome at less than 3, but sometimes it's right.

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Oh yeah! I forgot that Horizion Principal Entropy II has a slightly different explanation for the perpetually-bloody hands!

And at the end, he finds the desolate filing cabinet where they’ve kept some of the most important things they’ve stolen from him and never told him about, including a living picture of Attaris I; his official birth certificate and certificate of eligibility to be Principal; and his heart.

He puts it in his chest, getting his hands all bloody, and transcends.

They won’t ever stop being bloody, after that.

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There is an Entropy I announcement that makes no sense (either) because frankly Entropy I didn’t anticipate his successor holding an Evilology conference.
Okay, I really like the idea of a "time capsule message" from someone who set up messages to play after their death/departure which are surprisingly prescient and make it seem like they're really there for a conversation... except for one time, when their prediction is just completely and totally off-base and their recording is just a total non sequitur.

obsidian dagger
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Also, more thoughts on Azazel, who is named Abomination, and who is notionally a Warmain who tries to tempt you into fighting them until you collapse of exhaustion: I think the way you pass their test is by refusing their false admissions of guilt (to tempt you into fighting them) and refuting them by thoroughly admitting your own guilt, so thoroughly castigating yourself that no-one could possibly argue that any of the fault lay on any shoulders but yours. The way you win is by walking away.

obsidian dagger
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Now I'm wondering if N is dealing with large enough metaphorical powers to take a Mystic arc. I think he is?

nocturne epoch
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I enjoy when the bolded miracle part of a post is two fucking paragraphs long

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The usual is something like this

obsidian dagger
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You have just reminded me of my never-quite-started attempt to make a Chuubo discord bot (which could track XP actions, and you could say "hey! I've done an XP action" and it'd track your XP and give it to you if it's been long enough, and could read emote reactions and use them to grant Reaction XP. It was neither necessary nor all that awesome.

nocturne epoch
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Bots are cool tho

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nobilis update

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  • War is doing War things but people are filming him which is not ideal
  • Heroism had a scrap with Chaos but then Elaine, Unrequited Love's-Regal showed up and she's in love with Heroism and she wanted to defend him and now he's trying to deal with that and hide the fact she's yandere for him
  • Con Games has successfully set world leaders up for being conned, possibly so nukes can be stolen
  • Machines is in an armed standoff with the Camorra who are attempting to (re)capture them, and has just used a big fucking revolver to blow up a Nimblejack
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It's all go

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Oh and Con Games did this by sneaking into an emergency UN Security Council meeting with fake credentials

obsidian dagger
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I just discovered I was looking at the entire wrong thing for reference.

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The newer thing implies Magisters of the Dark has Prophet? Presumably that's been overruled, though.

compact bison
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Current Implication is that Magisters of the game are Indomitable, Hunter, Prophet, Wanderer

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This implies their relationship with their estates is weird

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"I dunno I just kinda vibe you feel me?"

restive ridge
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None of the Imperators beside Wildlords have stats that let them use their Estates in a really straight forward way anyways. Games are just having fun with that restriction

fleet harbor
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Powers are kind of distinctive in just being able to go

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"Yo, I'm fire, have some fire"

restive ridge
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Yeah

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Prophet is pretty good at like embodying your Estate all things considered

grand knot
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Oh damn. There was a great trans girl N fic but it's gone now

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It was all introspective and contemplative

fleet harbor
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BTW, for anyone who backed Far Roofs: your books are available now

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Go read Fable of the Swan XD

grand knot
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Aight. The arc of TB from star rail?
I'll default to the female version, Stelle.
She's just left as an amnesiac in a space station by the Stellaron Hunters, who implant a Stellaron, the cancer of all worlds, in her.
She's the first case where a Stellaron doesn't ruin/distort a person, and it's somewhat safely contained in her, in a unique symbiosis. The SH have plans for her, written by their seer.
Stelle is empowered by the thing in her, and shows an unusual capacity to draw the attention of Aeons (basically gods) and be blessed with power from their Paths.
She joined the astral express, followers of the dead aeon of the trailblaze, and goes around helping worlds, aiding in containment of stellarons. Those mess up roads between worlds, so the astral express crew is slowly reconnecting the universe along the way.
Stelle is part of some plan by the SH to stop Nanook, aeon of destruction who thinks the universe deserves to be destroyed, and it's implied the quest will kill her.

magic mason
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The estate of Demons

  • only exist for examples
  • possess bizarre abilities
  • are living rhetorical tools
  • probably aren’t from hell
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The estate for all the thermodynamics violators, omniscient demiurges and monsters that gain infinite happiness by eating people

grand knot
candid compass
magic mason
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This works on a lot of imperator types, but I would favor earthbound ones

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Darwins Demon is another fun one

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Creature with perfect control over its own evolution
Biological grey goo

patent tiger
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This rules

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Love to conjure up Laplace’s Demon and get really sassy at Fallen

magic mason
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_(thought_experiment)

Demon (thought experiment)

In thought experiments, philosophers and scientists occasionally imagine entities with special abilities as a way to pose thought experiment or highlight apparent paradoxes.
The word "demon" here does not necessarily connotate a demon, a malevolent being. For instance, when William Thomson (Lord Kelvin) came up with the Maxwell's demon, to hig...

fleet harbor
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tfw you hit a Deceiver so hard with the creational concept of void that you actually accidentally create their pre-Excrucian self as a separate entity

vivid wraith
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oops!!

restive ridge
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Happened to my buddy Eric

patent tiger
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Happened to my buddy Cneph

fleet harbor
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I'm worried that if comparisons keep happening between Sam and Cneph it's going to give Morgana ideas

restive ridge
vivid wraith
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the level of specificity here is really really fun

image.png
undone flame
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And then I was here

fleet harbor
patent tiger
fleet harbor
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I'm not convinced the warmain isn't just fucking with everyone

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"The Test of Excrucian Abstinence" or some shit

patent tiger
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There are ten people, total, ever, other than your group of four PCs, that will ever understand

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Plus three miscellany, who are all weirdos by necessity

vivid wraith
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"two that haven't joined yet" is begging to be a plot hook

fleet harbor
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There was a mimic we almost convinced to come to meetings but honestly I can see why they didn't

vivid wraith
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or a PC concept! You were holding out but now you're in!

restive ridge
fleet harbor
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XD

patent tiger
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Then we just destroy the works of everyone who didn't, prevent them from ever doing anything again, and hey presto! We solved it

restive ridge
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That is true

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Sam feel free to start a Project for a second World Ash or smt

patent tiger
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Cauldronist moment

candid compass
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surely all the Excrucians will be cool with it as long as you do it right this time

fleet harbor
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No doubt

vivid wraith
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world reboot where the Strategists are fine with it but the Deceivers still complain

fleet harbor
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And now there's a new, 5th type of excrucian

candid compass
fleet harbor
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"The world is still a lie!" "Okay but it's not wrong anymore"

grand knot
fleet harbor
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I'm pretty sure the first World Ash had those

patent tiger
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That would be amazing

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Warmains would be a problem anywhere, of course

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They're a problem even in the Not

fleet harbor
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Maybe that's the problem, maybe we need to make a World Ash without blackjack and hookers

hollow spruce
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warmains do not care about if the world is built well or not, they care about if they can still beat the shit out if it for fun

patent tiger
candid compass
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Warmains only consume media to find their favorite blorbos

grand knot
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And more importance to games

fleet harbor
# patent tiger

The real problem with the World Ash is that it has online multiplayer, the next version will be couch co-op only

candid compass
restive ridge
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Oh also bit I cant get out of my mind

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Both the overall spirit of Hell and the overall spirit of Heaven are Nobles under the same Imperator, an Aaron Serpent

fleet harbor
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... yes

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This is good

frank light
patent tiger
fleet harbor
frank light
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Like just some random vague humanish figure sitting at the table with eyes insisting that they’re an angel but like…also they weirdly get it

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Warmains yeah…

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Mimic who lets a strategist crash at their chancel while they’re buying a house still

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May actually start building a pseudo chancel of my own at some point.
Seems fun

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OH SPEAKING OF WARMAINS
One of the nobles that we might encounter in Ru’s game is actually a warmain who tempered the noble of stability

grand knot
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What is the difference between strategist and deceiver philosophy?

hollow spruce
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Decievers say the world is a Lie

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The one we exist in, it's not real, there is something true trapped and hidden underneath it that we have to peel apart to get it

fleet harbor
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Deceivers have suffered trauma that convinces them that the world cannot be real

frank light
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Something true and beautiful and great

fleet harbor
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There has to be something better than this

hollow spruce
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The world can't be real, it doesn't make any sense

frank light
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Most people who encounter such a trauma just straight up die and don’t come back

hollow spruce
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They are debaters, philosophers, and really annoying people in your psych class

frank light
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It’s very rare you get a deceiver out of it

fleet harbor
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Strategists on the other hand are plagued by an attachment to a piece of the world that goes out of its way to kill them

grand knot
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Oh, so none believe truth doesn't exist/is unreachable

fleet harbor
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Over

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And over

hollow spruce
#

Now, Strategists say the world is Wrong. It is, fundamentally, built poorly

fleet harbor
#

And over

frank light
#

Like you encounter something so fundamentally unacceptable you cannot go on with the world being real

And then uh…they disappear

#

Shwoop

#

And only one or two have actually managed to return

#

Or one or two out of hundreds

#

That’s what I meant

hollow spruce
#

The world sucks and it was made to suck and this is fundamentally not how it should be. It shouldn't be at all.

fleet harbor
#

And the thing about Strategists is that they're mad about this

frank light
#

And yeah strategists see the world as Wrong

grand knot
frank light
#

All this mucky creation and lies

candid compass
frank light
#

There’s something beautiful underneath that some of have glimpsed.

candid compass
#

the lie is just in the way

fleet harbor
#

Deceivers think A Modest Proposal is stupid, Strategists think a A Modest Proposal is unacceptably horrible

candid compass
#

and people have unfortunately gotten tangled up in it

hollow spruce
#

Whether or not the world is a Lie is not important to Strategists, really. It's not even necessarily incorrect. But it's not what matters. What matters is that it fucking sucks and they need to tear it apart

restive ridge
#

Deceivers are demiurgic/buddhistic in a way

frank light
#

The modest proposal comparison is tbh a strategist allegory for the diffferences in perspective,

Decievers prefer to compare creation to an abusive spouse

candid compass
#

the Deceiver parables are hilarious

hollow spruce
#

Deceivers and Strategists are thus after the same goal on a fundamentally different sort of axis, but make good enough allies for it anyway

fleet harbor
frank light
#

They disagree sorta on the exact reason for destroying creation but in the end they both have the exact same goal so…they may argue and debate and disagree but it’s doubtful they’ll fight about it:

frank light
wheat cobalt
#

excrucians have strong leftist infighting energy

hollow spruce
#

Decievers become what they are by coming across something absolutely unacceptable to them, something that is just so stupid and unrealistic and Shouldn't Be that they just unexist about it
A chocolate covered potato chip, the sudden death of a loved one, their computer catching fire

#

They cannot stand for this being a thing

fleet harbor
#

Like ... imo the most horrifying deceiver we know of also has the most horrifying known backstory leading to her becoming what she is, and it involves extensive abuse

frank light
#

Yeah

fleet harbor
#

So like this isn't a subtle metaphor

frank light
#

Excrucians are generally tragic figures.
I’m still including warmains even if they’re freaks

hollow spruce
#

So they come to the conclusion that it is because it's not real, it's a lie

wheat cobalt
#

deceivers tend to get emotionally rending transformative moments, strategists get something more akin to a miraculous natural disaster but it kills them forever

hollow spruce
#

Strategists become what they are by seeing something akin to a glitch in the matrix that haunts them foreved

candid compass
frank light
#

Crawls into their eyes

wheat cobalt
#

that's not to say that a deceiver's moment can't be more physical/fundamental or that a strategist's glitch can't be emotional somehow, but the way it hits them is centered on that dichotomy

frank light
#

The wrongness is an objective fact
It is not a world judged as wrong it is simply wrong

frank light
#

It’s not lesser but it’s a different thing entirely

#

It’s a different experience

hollow spruce
restive ridge
fleet harbor
#

But it's also worth noting that one of the consistent things about Deceiver presentation is that they keep like ... failing to commit 100% to the bit

#

They like their minions

#

They make friends

#

They absolutely do all sorts of horrible things

#

They will

#

And they have

frank light
#

That’s how it is with Excrucians.
The world should obviously be destroyed but…but look at it.
Look at it.

They’ve got…coffee and friends.

So that’s why some excrucians…only some. Stop

#

Excrucians <333

wheat cobalt
#

it's interesting, because Deceivers tend to get entangled in the world because they can't help but make, like, connections, whereas Strategists are entangled forcefully and tend to just fucking hate it

fleet harbor
#

I think deceivers are more likely to not truly stop

wheat cobalt
#

and even if you learn to live with it, you can't really fully stop hating it because hating it is why you survived in the first place

fleet harbor
#

And instead make up labyrinthine excuses

frank light
#

Any excrucian stopping is exceptional anyway.
The numbers aren’t big

rose crescent
#

There's something like, what, 14 members of the Chancery?

wheat cobalt
#

a deceiver is animated by a more lofty defiance but a strategist is a being animated by spite

frank light
#

Around 1000 on earth.
Assuming around…17 or 19 aren’t fighting
That’s like…2ish percent?

candid compass
#

for me a big part of the difference is
Strategists are all righteous indignation and rage, they destroy things because it's the right thing to do, and really a mercy if you think about it
Deceivers have this weirdly manipulative vibe, they tell you they love you but also hate everything about you, you just don't see the truth like they do it's so sad everyone is tangled up in the lie

rose crescent
#

Two strategists who have stopped but not members

frank light
#

Oh wow yeah

#

And to be honest the chancery explicitly isn’t the only number of excrucians who have stopped

hollow spruce
#

Deceivers are annoying people committing to a bit about it
Strategists are big dramatic supervillains with tragic backstories and big speeches about it

wheat cobalt
#

strategists don't need any more justification because reality keeps kicking them in the teeth and like, what? are you going to tell them to not swing back? they don't care what you tell them because every speech about the beauty and worth of creation in the world falls flat in the face of the shit strategists experience

frank light
#

But it’s the main connected group of them

candid compass
#

there are a number of Excrucians who are a sort of weird third party to the War

rose crescent
#

I believe it's mentioned somewhere that there's one or two other Strategists who have stopped, but are not members of the Chancery

frank light
#

Yes that too

wheat cobalt
#

strategists who do stop tend to come to that conclusion on their own

rose crescent
#

And that the Chancery is specifically the Strategist's support group for not being a world destroyer

frank light
#

But there’s also mention of warmains and decievers who stop but aren’t really chancery members
Or strategists who go on to become neutral third parties

#

The chancery is mostly strategists even if it has some non strategists in it yeah

rose crescent
#

It's not that the others don't stop, it's that they don't go through the same thing as Strategists, they have their own groups, their own stories

frank light
#

Being a strategist sucks and you can really feel all the stories about the beauty of the world fall flat for you

#

It’s great

#

Because it doesn’t matter how beautiful it all is it’s still wrong.

Learning how to live with wrongness is fucking hard because it is killing you. It is not innocent.

fleet harbor
#

As a Strategist, you know intimately that the world is like ... morally bad

#

As a Deceiver, you know intimately that the world is concealing something better, something wonderful

#

... oh shit I just had a thought

rose crescent
#

It's not even just morally bad

#

It's both morally bad and just like, fundamentally built incorrectly

fleet harbor
#

If Deceivers use the "the world is an abusive spouse" metaphor

#

But the Deceivers are still obsessed with finding the beauty buried under the surface

rose crescent
#

It's bulldozing a rainforest to replace it with a parking lot that doesn't even allow cars in

fleet harbor
#

Does that mean Deceivers think "but I can fix it"

frank light
#

…see I don’t think so

restive ridge
#

I think finding the beauty underneath is finding like

#

The abused person and trying to rescue them

fleet harbor
#

Ah, okay

#

Yeah that makes more sense

frank light
#

Yeah

vivid wraith
#

noting that several of the lore snippets in Glitch appear to be from shipping fic

fleet harbor
#

"Don't date the opposition," they said, "it never goes well!" they said.

patent tiger
#

Wheree else does lore come from

frank light
restive ridge
#

It never does

#

Thats what makes it so good

vivid wraith
hollow spruce
#

doing the good work, shelly

#

Glitch having little flavor snippets is great, but I always love the detail of them being from stories that just aren't real

#

This is my favorite one

image-48.png
candid compass
grand knot
frank light
#

It evidently hasn’t gone well

fleet harbor
vivid wraith
#

But they don't have the Allegorical stat 🤔

fleet harbor
#

Damn you literalism

tall jolt
#

I have so much better posts guys I swear qq

vivid wraith
#

do we know anything of note about the Angel of the First Age

#

follow-up question
do we have any data to contradict the theory that Lucifer was the Angel of the First Age pre-Fall

restive ridge
#

No and no

vivid wraith
#

cool cool
I can declare my claim self-evident and none may challenge me. like cneph of old

candid compass
#

Putting this little paragraph from our game here too, because it really stuck with me

vivid wraith
#

ooooooh

restive ridge
#

I should lean more into Creational Animism

undone flame
#

Concept

#

True God that makes a power of Colors Only Mantis Shrimp See

frank light
#

And really sad too because the implication is that a lot of these are artifacts from a city that got erased in an excrucian attack (some other shit happened too)

Oooopsies guys

tall jolt
#

The Power Of Irrelevence

#

The Power of Being Forgotten

restive ridge
nocturne epoch
#

I was just thinking 'didnt we learn they dont really exist'

#

Then I thought I should make the Power of Buzzkills

#

Buzz Killington

tall jolt
#

...Says the worst thing at the exact right moment

undone flame
#

Shrimp colors are real because I fuckin say so feral

restive ridge
#

Shrimp Colors are a Mimic Esttae

nocturne epoch
#

Shrimp colors? Aren't they just pink - power of barbeques

jovial cipher
#

you're telling me a shrimp coloured this rice?

grand knot
#

Buzz's words
-Sound technical
-Have little meaning
-Kill the mood

magic mason
#

Estate of The Buzz

  • Drives people to fervor and desire
  • Can be created and wielded via proper wording
  • Can be killed by harsh truths
  • Monopolizes attention to turn it into profit
  • Is cannibalistic
fleet harbor
#

Hm…to read An Unclean Legacy or reread Fable of the Swan

fleet harbor
magic mason
#

I was considering something like that

#

But I think the cannibalism is funny

fleet harbor
#

Reposting from technical

frank light
#

Yeah

nocturne epoch
#

I approve

grand knot
#

Correct

grand knot
#

How does one become a deceiver?

vivid wraith
#

You come to the conclusion that the world is a lie

fleet harbor
#

Like, so bad

#

Something terrible happens, something you cannot accept

#

You come to the inescapable conclusion that it's all just a fucking fiction

#

Built on top of the grain of something true and good

#

Something you're sure is there

#

"The world" is inexplicably tied up with awfulness and you need to end it all to get to the Creamy Center of Truth

#

And you become what you always were

patent tiger
#

You know that feeling where you see something that pisses you off, or doesn't make sense to you, or just feels off, to the point where you go, "I refuse to accept that this is a part of the world I live in"?

#

Have a really bad one of those, and you can become a Deceiver

fleet harbor
#

Of course most people who experience that just die

grand knot
#

Dying of sheer rage

patent tiger
#

No, that'd be a Strategist

fleet harbor
#

You might think of them in contrast to the Strategists, actually

#

Strategists emerge because the world is broken and that's fucked up

#

Deceivers emerge because the world is working as intended and that's fucked up

patent tiger
#

Yeah

fleet harbor
#

It's telling that the most compelling Deceiver backstories are ... all kind of about abuse?

#

Iolithae was systematically tortured by a priest. Jasmine was betrayed and manipulated by her first boyfriend. These aren't pretty stories.

#

But they are stories about things that can just kind of happen in Creation

#

And the Deceiver has to conclude that the very possibility of those things happening, a possibility which is intrinsically loaded into creation, means the whole thing is a falsehood

#

It's a lie from top to bottom

#

How could it not be?

#

How could a world this stupid and awful be the real thing?

undone flame
#

Strategists are just born haters

fleet harbor
#

Er

#

No?

#

Strategists start as regular people, then get tortured and murdered repeatedly by a glitch in the fabric of reality

wheat cobalt
#

Strategists are very much not born haters

#

Warmains, though

fleet harbor
#

They become strategists if they manage to push through and escape reality for Ninuan, releasing the royalty that was always within them

#

(Was it always always there? Did it become always there? Chronology and destiny get weird in reference to these things.)

#

But Creation like ... doesn't stop killing them

#

Just because they're royalty now

#

They are incandescent with rage for a very good reason

candid compass
#

Once you see the Glitch, you see it in everything
And it infects you

#

Being in Creation becomes unbearable because its all wrong, and your bane will come to kill you again and again

#

The royalty is also I think an important part of the Strategist pitch

#

Because when you awaken, you suddenly become aware of this other self that was inside you all along

patent tiger
#

It depends on how you define [born], honestly

#

A Strategist only survives, only becomes what they are, by being a hater

candid compass
#

you are royalty, Warleader, Redeemer

#

to the Strategists, Ninuan is the fallen kingdom that is their birthright
and it could be great again, maybe
if they just get rid of Creation

patent tiger
#

(That's where the fascist part of the equation leaks in hard)

#

(Good ol' Strategists, allegories for so much at once)

fleet harbor
#

I use this quote a lot

#

I got it from a review of the Nausicaa manga

#

"Like any good fable, it maps to an allegory of your choice"

grand knot
#

I need to do my adaptation of that fairy tale I like as a kid

undone flame
#

Being a born hater means you are bron destined to be a hater.

#

Not that you are a hater as a baby.

frank light
#

i think this is wyrd yeah

patent tiger
frank light
#

your destiny

#

as a hater

patent tiger
#

I was a hater as a baby

undone flame
#

Ru popped out and immediately started talking about diagetics in rpgs

obsidian dagger
#

Do we have a similar explanation for Warmains? As in, how you become one? Or should I just guess based on what I know?

candid compass
#

Warmains come from the void (except for some very rare cases)
before they temper anyone they aren't really a person, they are more a force of nature, the test just imposing itself on people

#

and then when someone passes their test, they become that person, subsume them into themselves

obsidian dagger
#

because my guess, and one which feels very... Moran-esque, is that becoming a Warmain is to some extent an expression of love. ...but that "emergence from the void, and not a person before they become one" thing is also good and doesn't tread on Hell's toes.

candid compass
#

(though a Warmain could theoretically also temper something that's not a person, but that's rarer)

candid compass
#

because they liked you so much, they decided you should live on forever inside of the Warmain

obsidian dagger
#

I'm trying to think of a diegetic reason why Warmains tend to become people, rather than buildings or laws of nature or directions, and presumably it's because there's something special about personhood in general that makes people... better. More capable of fundamental (or, to a Warmain, fundamental) beauty and value and goodness and worth, enough so that it must be preserved.

#

I'm also thinking about "preservation of identity" stuff, and wondering how much of a difference there is between a Warmain becoming a person and a person becoming a Warmain.

candid compass
#

well, they can also temper those things theoretically, but its rarer

candid compass
#

it also varies sometimes

magic mason
#

Yeah I feel like it is important to point out all Excrucians don't necessairly have to be... humanish

Like one of the example Decivers is out here looking like the hiss from control

#

full on Those Who Cannot Silence The Voice Of Morrowin Hollow

#

just a sound in the wind
that you cannot silence

obsidian dagger
#

If people become Warmains, then you could argue that it's ultimately a sense of self-love and loneliness — the realization of something within you which is worthy of preservation beyond this world, which most of the world lacks, which you desperately want to find in someone or something else. Or the person you're about to become realizing that about you, at least.

#

I'm talking about personhood, not strictly humanity, to be clear.

magic mason
#

I love VOMH
she is girlbossing

she has two treasures and they are both ghosts

obsidian dagger
#

How do people come up with Deciever names? Because I know they're intrinsic to pStates.

magic mason
#

They use normal Excrucian naming conventions

The Voice Of Morrowin Hollow is just called that because she doesn’t have a proper name

obsidian dagger
#

Yes, but I don't know normal Excrucian naming conventions.

magic mason
#

Its like… gothic names

#

There is a pool of first and half of name roots

frank light
#

like there are absolutely cases of strategists and deceivers who just...didnt come from within creation (or at least have no memory of it)
and there are apparantly super rare cases where the reverse is true of warmains

lemme go pull up the passage

candid compass
obsidian dagger
#

Random idea which occured to me:

- Is in an overlooked corner.
- Makes people mourn, even if they don't know why.
- Is just barely well-enough maintained to not crumble.
- Is empty.```
frank light
#

(almost) never human is such a WILD line

#

love the excrucians <333
buncha weirdos

magic mason
#

I also think nonhuman nobles are very funny, especially with how they interact with aspect

frank light
#

for sure

#

theyre funnnny

candid compass
frank light
#

if i ever play glitch again maybe ill do a straight voidborn strategist

obsidian dagger
#

Honestly, I like the idea of an organization which is a Noble, and you could have one where the employees are Treasures, but it'd be really neat to have one where they... aren't. The Noble has as much influence over its employees as a human has over their mitochondria. The Nobility is an emergent property, not vested in any individual or individuals.

#

(Side note: read the webcomic Skin Horse.)

frank light
#

thats...possible!!

#

though probably the spirital "soul" of the organization is whats getting ennobled
probably pretty wack and weird but hey if it works for the game concept it works

candid compass
frank light
#

love oseric <333

obsidian dagger
#

or commentary on if that's a workable/interesting pState?

frank light
#

Mine is a bit edgier in contrast
Malonas
Mal-Grinder(grinder of)
and nas being (salvation)
Translating directly to "Grinder of Salvation"

The beast stalks the sleeping kingdom, awake and hungry;
hopedust and bonedust fall from the mouth.
#

its a workable pstate for sure

#

as for names theres uncountably many
could always be directly based on the pstate too

#

ill do a simple one

#

Beuthas
(Beautiful death)

obsidian dagger
#

Even when all else is gone, its absence is remembered; beauty outlives the beautiful.

magic mason
#

Doesn’t Phaseal’s name mean Beloved of Harumaph or something

#

(Phaseal is a really shitty example deceiver)

frank light
#

i think mery-harumaph is the "beloved of harumaph" bit

#

its in his last name

obsidian dagger
#

And now I'm remembering Fallen London and thinking about the Discordance. And, uh, I don't know if anyone here knows about that, but thinking about the Correspondence and Discordance in Chuubo's terms would be really really interesting. There's certainly parallels to be drawn.

magic mason
#

Ah that makes sense

frank light
#

phaseal's first name is probably something else

candid compass
#

Phasael was like... tattered soul or something

#

let me check

#

Threadbare Soul

#

that was it

hollow spruce
# 
The sinister potions of Decievername...
>Are too strong for you
>Never are as advertised
>Are very marketable
>Come with an unforeseen price
>Grant a dark power
candid compass
#

needs to have "are forbidden" in there

obsidian dagger
#

does anyone else here know about Fallen London and/or the Discordance in particular? I haven't played FL in forever but I feel like there's something really meaningful there. For some FL spoilers: ||The Correspondence is the burning language spoken/written by stars, which is used to write reality. The Discordance are the opposite of that; they describe things which don't exist.||

hollow spruce
obsidian dagger
#

For example, ||at one point you can use the Discordance to enact No single thing shall be a single thing, causing there to be two of you.||

#

||It's not... cloning, per se; it's more just a violation (or negation) of the fundamental law that one thing is exactly one thing, in one location, doing one thing.||

#

I can't decide if that's more like an Actual, a Deceiver, or a Strategist (probably not that last one).

#

Also thinking about the implications of a Deceiver whos pState is Battles with <deciever>.

grand knot
#

Enemies of [deceiver]
-Have bad luck
-Don't stay enemies for long

patent tiger
#

Pseudoestates that speciifically screw over people who oppose you are great

#

They make it so the winning move is to leave them alone and hope they don't antagonize you in a way you have to answer, 'cause if you do, you're kinda screwed

#

A la Warmains tbh

obsidian dagger
#

I was thinking something that made battles with them into big, flashy, cinematic affairs which don't ever end in one side getting seriously hurt, and (if you want something extra nasty) lead to both sides becoming bitter friends.

magic mason
#

… I wonder what the example deceivers second selves are like

frank light
#

This one might actually be their whole “who you were before creation”/“who are you really underneath the lie”
Similar to the Lore/Wyrd combo in glitch that connects strategist back to their ninuanni roots.
Deepness might as well

frank light
#

Oh chat. I managed to somehow in a blackout fugue state enter an imperator’s chancel.
This has been…an interesting experience.

vivid wraith
#

oops!

fleet harbor
#

Watch out Karen you don't want them to make you an Erus

frank light
#

LMAO

#

They shouldn’t

#

I am a full fucking excrucian

wheat cobalt
#

it'd be so funny

#

Nilind would lose his shit

frank light
#

But yeah uhh in glitch I managed to black out, wake up in a chancel, and talked to someone I suspect was an imperator(though just as easily they could be an avatar or construct)
And we had a polite conversation in a garden and maybe I have someone I can ask advice from????

frank light
wheat cobalt
#

mal connecting with an imperator is honestly fascinating

#

it's one thing to connect with a Noble or spirit, it's another to be on close-ish terms with an Imperator

#

esp as an excrucian

frank light
#

YEAH THIS IS FUCKING INSANE

#

but hey as I slowly get more and more wildlord/imperator powers I may have someone to talk to about that shit

#

And also A RULESLORD??? OF ALL BEINGS???

#

I don’t even explicitly think of myself as human. Nor do I think I’m human by ruleslord standards

#

This is amazing

grand knot
#

A strategist?

frank light
#

Oh yes I’m playing a strategist

#

Lemme post her art!!!!

#

Malonas, dying of black holes. 19 years old and still developing her moral compass

fleet harbor
#

/'::::::::Fgv4,c.xd0-9 v

#

Profound wisdom from Smoke

reef perch
#

wisdom indeed

fleet harbor
#

Here he is, Smoke, Power of Smoke

IMG_7091.jpg
reef perch
#

truly a void

fleet harbor
#

No he's not an excrucian

#

:D

frank light
#

That’s what you think

#

Behold!!! The royalty of ninuan!!!!

#

On your lap!!!!

fleet harbor
#

I mean he's definitely not a strategist. Maybe a warmain

#

The test of meows

frank light
#

Dorky lil cat

obsidian dagger
#

Remember when, in discussing the Horizon campaign, Jenna Moran came up with Ada McNae kind of on the side?

#

I remembered making a thing for her which is. Probably pretty close to bog-standard Awakening, but I just thought it'd be funny to have a storyline simultaneously about a studend realizing she's actually a puppet on the end of a tendril of an extratemporal universe destroyer, and a story of said extratemporal universe destroyer suddenly getting a good look at the universe and timeline from the inside and realizing "hey, wait, this is full of People, and apparently I'm one of those also??"

#

This, to be clear, is not really what the original concept was about but I just randomly remembered and appreciated it.

frank light
#

Gimme a fun chuubos miracle/arc ability to turn into a gift
I’m a big fan of doing this

#

Giving strategists abilities they shouldn’t by default have is great

magic mason
#

Or Summon

frank light
#

Revelation…that’s the one where you reveal a truth right?

#

Tbh that is just more specific greater misdirection.
But summon is fun

# 
Summon - someone you know, have a narratively significant connection to(enemy, nemesis, friend, lover, campaign bad guy, person who owes you money and is important), finds their way to you…eventually. Extenuating circumstances may slow this down or prevent this, but there is an imperial weight on the world that will bring them to you.

(Greater divine plan) + 12
(Painful) - 5 (immersion)
(Global) + 1
(One-trick)- 5
(Uncommon) + 1

I’m making it a wish effect instead of being normal

#

4cp for the “summon whoever the fuck”

magic mason
#

They even come if they are dead

#

Very good

frank light
#

They’ll attempt to in some form yeah

#

Maybe as a ghost

#

If they were slain by another wish though then things will get complicated

#

Maybe you get their new form if they reincarnated

restive ridge
#

I think you could do this far cheaper with like

frank light
#

Wishes are fuzzy like that

restive ridge
#

Flore calling for help ×2 or ×3

frank light
#

Possibly

#

But trust has some caveats and is only level 6
This is at the very least a level 12 wish effect

fleet harbor
#

Oh god I just had the weirdest idea

#

So someone gets a pet, and early on the pet turns out to have health issues, but they love their pet and they do everything they can for it for a long time, until finally it passes away … and as they’re standing there in the vet’s office watching its life fade, they suddenly realize they’re a warmain

restive ridge
#

Yessss

fleet harbor
#

They’ve just been tempered after passing the Test of Love

restive ridge
#

Sickos

fleet harbor
#

Their pet was the warmain

restive ridge
#

Beautiful

#

I am also thinking about like'

#

What if the pet wasnt a warmain?

#

What if they simply wished for nothing to ever pass away for nothing to die again so hard that they grabbed hold of the strands of Ninuann inside of them and just became a naturall spawning new Warmain'

frank light
#

Could be the original manifestation of one
The ones that aren’t quite “people” yet

fleet harbor
#

That works too, although I was imagining this as more of a chancery warmain backstory — the oddity of becoming something you loved from two sides just sort of … left them confused about the whole testing thing

frank light
#

I love a good chancery warmain

fleet harbor
#

“Actually I feel pretty complete as I am”

restive ridge
#

Lmao

#

Beautiful

fleet harbor
#

Chancery warmain who now works as I dunno an excrucian John Constantine

#

Not really strongly motivated but gets into miraculous trouble regardless

frank light
#

Hahaha

fleet harbor
#

Because like, if they stopped loving their pet, that would betray the very inner truth that the warmain tempered them for

#

But also their pet is them now

#

So they have to love themselves as they are

patent tiger
#

That rules

fleet harbor
#

Make part of the narrative that they got this pet at a really low point in their life and they made living for it their mission

#

To make up for their lack of self-love

hollow spruce
#

This is great GK, love this

fleet harbor
#

But now it lives forever in their heart — somewhat literally

fleet harbor
#

… damn it Jenna we need proper rules for Warmains now I want to play this person

hollow spruce
#

Part of the trick is that, beyond specifc conceits like this... warmains aren't really PC material I think

frank light
#

It’s a shaaaame.
It might be possible the shamble some miracle tracks together from the chuubos drafts

#

Well, to be fair, I think most excrucians as antags don’t make for good pcs

#

Like going on a villain campaign in say glitch, doesn’t actually sound suuuper interesting

restive ridge
#

Yeah lmao

frank light
#

Specific conceits are basically necessary and that’s how Glitch was born

candid compass
#

before Glitch I'd assume people probably wouldn't have thought playing as Strategists would work that well either

hollow spruce
#

Glitch obviously needs Strategists at their soggiest to work yeah

#

Which is fair!

candid compass
#

if we get more stuff from the Warmain's perspective, it might also shift things there

frank light
#

Yeah. Playable warmains I imagine are in a similar boat

#

You have to give them a reason to stop but you could center entire games around those reasons and what it means to stop

fleet harbor
#

Aye

hollow spruce
#

Mm, yeah, it could be another perspective trick

frank light
#

Finagling some miracle tracks for em may be possible if only a lot of work.

fleet harbor
#

And focus heavily on why Warmains feel driven to do what they do

frank light
#

Architect and monstrous would be the easiest stats to homebrew up because they’re already in the shepherd and emptiness arcs and probably share miracles with Flore and Eide/Wyrd.

fleet harbor
#

And how it’s not really something that comes from a very … psychologically healthy place

frank light
#

Hunter and allegorical are the tough ones

candid compass
#

we know the rough shape of the stats at least, just not where exactly on the ladder each miracle would be

frank light
#

Yeah

hollow spruce
#

But I also don't know how well it works for Warmains on a Thematic level?
They're not tortured geniuses and overblown villains like the others, they're a lot much direct and focused, they're the primal force, the wolf at the door. They do what they do because they just full on want to do it
Why they would Stop is a very interesting question to answer but I don't know if I could grind as much out of it as I could in Glitch
But maybe you can!

candid compass
#

for Warmains you'd need to focus a lot on their internal angst I think

#

why they are incomplete until they Temper someone

#

what it means to take over someone's life like that

frank light
#

Could also get a list of reasons like for strategists

candid compass
#

also an angle is contending with their powerset, much like Strategists
Warmains are extremely forceful with their miraculous powers, and using that "responsibly" is probably also hard

frank light
#

Some of them might stop because those they’ve tempered have more influence on them and make them want to stop
Maybe some shatter due to pushing themselves
Maybe some have realized they’re never gonna find that missing piece in someone else
Etc etc.

#

Yeah lmao. All of their powers are great for forcing people to do what they want

fleet harbor
#

Warmains are a primal hunger, so I think the question is what happens when that hunger acquires self-awareness

frank light
#

Architect has links to flore but instead of treasures you have minions. And most of the powers can act without the person’s consent.

Hunter can force people to feel certain ways and trick them and torment them

#

Yeah exactly

#

And obviously that’s gonna be super rare! It’s gonna be rare for a warmain to stop

#

So it’s super interesting

restive ridge
#

Hunter would be weird

magic mason
#

I am thinking about warmain who is Smarter Than You

restive ridge
#

It lets you influence people in a way that no other stats can really do

frank light
#

Storyteller stats Babey

#

It’s cousins are Holy and Theft

magic mason
#

All Storytellers do

#

Yeah

#

Hunter aka Creature of Fable

#

Prep time bullshit
Fuck your free will
Etc

restive ridge
#

Holy is also good for that too

#

Theft is an equal match yeah

fleet harbor
#

FWIW most Strategist powers were deeply weird when Glitch first hit, Eide in particular is just like … so strange as a protagonist power if you’re coming from Nobilis

frank light
#

It’s so weird yeah

candid compass
#

Hunter manipulates emotionally, and occasionally just the story outright

frank light
#

Strategists have a bizarre powerset

candid compass
#

Architect tells people what to do, and they do it
or at least have a hard time not doing it

fleet harbor
#

Because Eide is absolutely a supervillain powerset

restive ridge
#

Eide is the quirky cousin to Aspect

frank light
#

And it’s good in context of villains!!
Because unlike aspect your cool cinematic abilities are still fundamentally mundane

hollow spruce
#

Eide is so funny

restive ridge
#

Lore and Flore are just Treasure

frank light
#

Throwing a stunt is gonna get beaten by greater perfection
You’re gonna get your ass kicked in a straight fight of power if they’re throwing miracles

But also you have the power to fake your death

candid compass
restive ridge
#

Wyrd is also weird but similar to Domain

frank light
#

Yeah exactly

#

Lore tbh has its links to domain too

magic mason
#

Lore feels more domain than Wyrd

frank light
#

Lore is the closest thing to having an estate

#

It’s not an estate but you can make a comparison

candid compass
#

Lore is as much ruling over an aspect of something as Domain is

#

your Sphere isn't that different to an estate

magic mason
#

Shoutout to all the Exarchs in the crowd

frank light
#

Eide faking your death is great for strategists. You can never know how dead they are

fleet harbor
#

Yeah you can kinda imitate a noble as a strategist but all your powers are just a little bit strange

frank light
#

Plus all the strategies

#

Oh yeah for sure

#

I have some gifts that mimic persona actually

fleet harbor
#

Warmains I think would be stranger

frank light
#

I took an incarnation gift and a Shapeshifting gift(the wild calls to me tbh)

fleet harbor
#

But not unacceptably so

candid compass
frank light
#

Warmains embody storybook monster tropes rather than scheming supervillains

magic mason
#

Warmains are probably better at mimicking nobles tbh

hollow spruce
#

Warmains as I understand it work on a lot of 'I Am Stronger' tropes

frank light
#

Still supervillains but they quite literally have storybook powers

#

What with hunter and allegorical and Monstrous

candid compass
magic mason
#

High theft deceivers seem like they would be terrifying for nobles

candid compass
#

Architect gives people commands, whether that be to your minions or just people you have a connection to
and they will probably do it, unless they spend a lot of effort resisting

frank light
#

Well all excrucians are terrifying.
Considering they have a habit of taking on entire familias and still winning on top

candid compass
#

Architect can also manipulate your connection to others, or create a connection out of nowhere

magic mason
frank light
#

Architect “I’m your dad”

magic mason
#

Yeah

#

… yeah

candid compass
frank light
#

Making miracle tracks is so hard but seems so tempting

candid compass
#

Hunter similarly forces people to play out the story as you want them to
they feel what you want them to feel, they react like you want them to
and if they do something you don't want, you just say "no, that doesn't happen"
and occasionally you just create a plot twist if things aren't going the way you want

fleet harbor
#

Whereas Nobles come at you head on the Excrucian deflects

frank light
#

Yeah exactly

magic mason
#

Weirdest hunt ability remains PEACE

frank light
#

Excrucians do have solid “fuck you die” powers in their toolkit.

But they have a ton of stuff for working around and in the background.
Schemes and plans

magic mason
#

Hunt can point at you

#

And give you
PEACE

candid compass
#

I do also like the explanation that the Strategists you tend to encounter as a Nobilis are probably deep in Wailing and are spending incredible amounts of Cost

frank light
#

Yeah as villains they’re probably in wailing and totally willing to throw out cost for shit.
Their game plan is to push themselves and die, returning later to cause more trouble

candid compass
#

which works out okay if you don't mind spending the next couple months in the void afterwards, but is not really sustainable

frank light
#

Yeah

#

If nobles have MP while strategists only have cost in 4e, then it really fits with their whole deal

hollow spruce
#

It's interesting how each Excrucian fills a different role as a villain trope

frank light
#

Damage themselves until they die and return later after repairing.
That was their thing in 3e too, they lost mp when they lost health, and had no mp recovery

#

When they ran out they escaped into the void.
Which probably represents greater wailing.

When you’ve got nothing else you book it

restive ridge
#

Yeah Strategists suck so much in 3e lmao

#

its funny as hell

frank light
#

They at least had tons of points for gifts since world breakers was free back then

restive ridge
#

Just objectively weaker than any other full Excrucian

frank light
#

No Domain no persona and a bajillion gifts to kill you with

fleet harbor
#

And of course The Big One

frank light
#

Yeah

restive ridge
#

World-Breakers-Hand isnt actually that good in a straight up fight

frank light
#

The biggest thing is it’s free. So it’s still something that can keep pressure on people.

#

And good for erasing threats

#

With bonds it could have pretty good strike too

#

And I imagine a wbh is worth a divine health level. A tough at the very least

hollow spruce
# hollow spruce It's interesting how each Excrucian fills a different role as a villain trope

Decievers are very 'trickster god' types; they're not necessarily less powerful, but they wield a lot of ways to subvert and fuck with you. They're smug bastards that will show up, drag you into their own bizarre set of rules, and when they get clowned they fuck off
Warmains are much more direct, they are Monsters. The dragon, the wolf, the beast at the door, the hungry thing. They challenge you physically and directly, exerting influence on the world and putting you under a Test to beat, with the twist that if you win it, you also lose

#

And Strategists serve as the Big Villains, the overarching foes with plots and schemes that will keep coming back once beat. You're fighting their plan, not them.

restive ridge
#

just a tought for a not defended target

frank light
#

Does divine health levels have a miracle level limit?

#

I assumed it was just based on severity

#

Like getting hit with a nuke, if you don’t defend against it, would be a divine

#

I feel like “erases you from existence with a level 5 miracle” would absolutely be a divine

restive ridge
#

ah nah its right at the edge of deadly for undefended

frank light
#

Assuming a strategist has bonds for a fight, which isn’t unlikely considering their personalities, it might take some higher than 5 effects to defend and keep it at bay. Which is worth mp

restive ridge
#

and yeah its probaly like meant to be based on lvl

#

if I hit you with a nuke using a lvl1 miracle you'll take a Bond(1): I am irradiated and got blown up or smt

frank light
#

The table im looking at lists “typical miracle level”

#

And it also lists what it would do to a human

restive ridge
#

Its still a wound and it still represents harm but its simply weaker

frank light
#

If your level 1 miracle instantly blows up a human I would rule it as still being deadly.
But it’s level 1 so it’s pretty easy to defend against

#

If it’s a level 1 miracle that only does some minor mental alteration or some other minor affects id rule it as a surface wound

#

Cus undefended humans also have health levels

restive ridge
#

mm mmm

patent tiger
#

A mundane action that takes out a Divine Health Level would have to be some action

#

That’d be a sight and a half

fleet harbor
#

Nani???

wheat cobalt
#

I assume that is the legendary "nuclear armageddeon brought to a knife fight"

frank light
#

Yeah

patent tiger
#

I would simply win with a knife

frank light
#

Or maybe some dark wizard casting evil dark super death blast

wheat cobalt
#

DIVINE DEATH BLAST

frank light
#

Skeleton divine death blast

candid compass
wheat cobalt
#

for real tho

frank light
#

Bleached coral getting decked in the face was like a 30 chaos unravel

#

But

#

Narratively yeah

hollow spruce
#

got his ass

frank light
#

It was amazing

hollow spruce
#

honestly, Jennifer, Coral and Sal are all already really Excrucian-coded

frank light
#

Lemme get my bleached coral excrucian stats

#

I made him a warmain

hollow spruce
#

Tracks

candid compass
hollow spruce
#

Strategist, absolutely

frank light
# 
"The Bleached Coral, who stains history with blood"
Ibda 
River of Slaughter

Wielding the test of the Gun

Ability - 7
Hunter - 4
Monstrous - 4
Allegorical - 6
Architect - 2

Gifts - The Drunkard's Gift (6cp), Durant (1cp), Eternal (3cp)
Geas - (I always shoot first)(6 ward)
hollow spruce
#

Gaulmara is like a refined version of what's wrong with Sal

frank light
#

Hahaha yeah

hollow spruce
#

Sal would be dying of Smoke, Burning maybe

frank light
#

I assumed being forgotten.
Since that’s what his anomaly did to him

hollow spruce
#

His anomaly focuses on the idea of things being worn down and burnt out

#

Exhaustion, addiction, a cigarette crumbles into smoke and ash, the absence of something when it has worked itself into nothing

frank light
#

True

hollow spruce
#

Absence anomalies are also just really Strategist core in the first place

#

...He even has a Destruction in Unravel, doesn't he (a power that lets him undo locks and bindings)

frank light
#

Lmao yeah

fleet harbor
frank light
#

Ooo nice

#

Innocuous form could even be a cat lmao

magic mason
#

Triangle agency stuff feels like it could exist pretty comfy on Nobilis scale

fleet harbor
frank light
#

Hell yeah

magic mason
obsidian dagger
# restive ridge

I'm thinking about Soul Eater, but... the end of the Soul Eater anime (which went completely off the rails) seems relevant here.

obsidian dagger
# frank light Gimme a fun chuubos miracle/arc ability to turn into a gift I’m a big fan of doi...

Also, if this offer is still open (and I understand if it isn't)... uh. Most of the cooler ones I wanted to pick were things that were pretty aggressively Deceiver things and/or stuff they already got, but how about In the Shadows?

Tumblr
"Chuubo's Marvelous Wish-Granting Engine"
Renegade (3 of 4)

Hi!
Today I’d like to continue our discussion of the Frantic Bindings Arc for the Chuubo’s Marvelous Wish-Granting Engine RPG, Renegade. This continues from part 1, introducing the Arc, and part 2, an...

frank light
#

Oh interesting!
Lemme take a look at this

#

I believe this is already just something strategists have by default(iirc renegade is Eide) but lemme take a look

#

Interesting

#

Okay I could probably make a gift based on misdirection for it or smthin

obsidian dagger
#

..oh, you're right, that is one of their things 🤦

#

I was looking at the arc assignments and trying to pick one that Strategists didn't get, and I accidentally picked one that Decievers don't get, instead.

frank light
#

In the shadows isn’t one of the miracles they get by default!

#

But it can probably be made into a gift

# 

Stalk - when investigating a specific area or person, you can choose to make yourself completely undetectable. Additionally, miracles for detection detect you in a “convenient area”, hiding your true presence unless they’re using level 9+ investigation miracle.

Misdirection(8)
Action(-1)
Self only(-5)
Comprehensive(-1)
Uncommon(+1)

2 character points babeyy

obsidian dagger
#

Barring that, Here's What You'll Do is interesting. (Impressario also gets a power to communicate with anything, but it's probably going to turn out very similar to Digest, except with "consume" swapped out for "talk to".)

Tumblr
"Chuubo's Marvelous Wish-Granting Engine"
Self-Made (2 of 4)

Link to the Chuubo’s Marvelous Wish-Granting Engine RPG
Hi!
Today I want to cover the Arc 1 powers, plus one Arc 3 power-up, for the Sickly Storyteller Arc, Self-Made.
This continues from part...

obsidian dagger
frank light
#

Lol

#

It’s a fairly cheap ability but invisibility is like 1 point

#

The only reason this is 2 is that it also fucks with investigations

fleet harbor
#

Most Glitch/Nobilis characters are pretty crazy strong by Chuubo’s standards

candid compass
#

especially in Glitch, since you can always pull out a big miracle no matter your stats
if you don't mind eating the cost

restive ridge
#

From Antithesis

Screenshot_20240425_233006_Adobe_Acrobat.jpg
fleet harbor
#

Jasmine

#

Best deceiver

#

❤️

restive ridge
#

Squis Games ❗

obsidian dagger
#

I think I know why Warmains are least likely to get some sort of splat. See, Strategists and Decievers both agree that there's something wrong with the world as a whole. And some Strategists can sort of settle down and live with that rather than lashing out, but either way, the fundamental thesis is that there's some fundamental flaw in reality.

Warmains don't quite believe that. They believe that most of reality is flawed, but that a few specific parts aren't, and that they want to preserve and shelter those parts. The problem is that no two Warmains really agree on what those parts are, and there's no kind of feud like a feud between people who almost completely agree on things.

#

If you wanted sympathetic Warmains who were slightly askew of the standard (like the Strategists in Glitch), I'd say probably ones that don't intervene as much? Like, they still have a test, and still look for stuff/people that passes it. But even if someone fails, they don't want to get rid of them; they want to give them a chance to grow and change, because maybe they'll eventually become able to pass the test.

frank light
#

Oh yeah. I mean it’s incredibly likely that warmains who stop are rare. And for their own weirder reasons

#

But as stated…this is pretty much true of all of them.

obsidian dagger
frank light
#

Excrucians

#

It’s super rare for them all to stop

rose crescent
#

Actually, which of the Excrucians is the most likely to stop?

frank light
#

I genuinely don’t think that’s an easy question to answer

hollow spruce
#

I don't think it's ever really stated but Probably strategists? They just have the most concentrated angst and shit to be sad about

obsidian dagger
#

But... okay. I'm not even sure if they would stop, because in some sense, testing people/things is a way to preserve them? But even if they did, one of these Warmains would... actually, they'd probably create something like Town. If you think that reality is ultimately doomed, and good things in it need to be preserved, but you don't want to just wear them... you'd want to create some kind of a metaphorical life raft, or maybe bomb shelter. Some way to preserve good people and things that isn't just subsuming them.

frank light
#

I don’t particularly like assigning them who’s more or least likely to stop but if I had to guess…ehhhh deceivers???

#

Like of excrucians any of them stopping is exceptional so “who’s more likely” may change based on the numbers shifting around.

#

Maybe it’s mimics who are more likely to stop,
Probably not but it’s a funny thought

fleet harbor
frank light
#

Just like the rare strategist who stops fighting doesn’t actually stop seeing the world as wrong, but learn that it’s destruction isn’t…healthy.

fleet harbor
#

Mimics have no choice, Strategists are at war with something that declared war on them, Deceivers beleive this is a kindness

obsidian dagger
#

And, to make things sympathetic, they might go from only preserving the truly good things, to preserving anything with the slightest grain of goodness. Which is, in a sense, harder, because it means accepting and preserving people and things who you don't necessarily like because they only have the slightest grain of goodness, and it means doing long, slow, hard work which doesn't show clear evidence of fruition instead of big dramatic Judgments.

fleet harbor
#

But warmains are here to make war

hollow spruce
#

war on main

obsidian dagger
#

I thought Warmains were also here to do what they thought of as kindness by preserving the few good things.

hollow spruce
#

Oh, they are

#

But Warmains notably like
Don't have any philosophical high ground or curse beyond that

frank light
#

Yeah but they’re very much here for a good time

#

They’re here to test the world and find the coolest bits

patent tiger
#

All of the Excrucians (except for maybe the Mimics) are philosophically consistent in terms of, they believe what they are doing is moral and right

hollow spruce
#

Nothing is keeping them here, like the Strategists, and nothing is making them feel like they Have to do this, like the Decievers

frank light
#

Granted they arrived by unconsciously murdering someone and taking their place but surely that’s got zero bearing on their mental state

patent tiger
#

But for the Warmains, a big component of that righteousness is what they want, not what they might think they have to do

hollow spruce
#

For Warmains this is kind of just really involved enrichment

patent tiger
#

(Personally, I don't think this makes that any less moral, or more suspect)

#

(But it is a notable distinction)

frank light
#

They’ve got some philosophy to their goals for sure

#

But they embody a lot of storybook monster archetypes

#

Hunter and monstrous and allegorical do this very well

frank light
hollow spruce
#

It does however make them really funny

obsidian dagger
#

Actually? That could be a core part of Sympathetic Warmain Mentality. Where instead of having a harsh test which tries to weed out the impure, it's the acknowledgment that nobody is truly pure, and that instead of simply smiting Bad Things, it's more worthwhile to put in the hard work to improve them.

frank light
#

Angel warmain

#

That’s actually funny as hell

candid compass
obsidian dagger
frank light
#

Angel who has made a friend with a warmain

frank light
obsidian dagger
#

What's the deal with Angels again? I think I was mixing them up with the Light.

frank light
#

The chancery is mostly strategists but I refuse to believe that’s the majority of retired or non host excrucians

hollow spruce
#

Angels and the Light are basically the same thing

frank light
patent tiger
#

Angels expect the world to be perfect and beautiful and just. They make the world perfect and beautiful and just. They tolerate no imperfections. They expect to see you do right.

frank light
patent tiger
#

And when you try, and fail, because of course you will, they say "you tried, and that was good. Next time, try better"

hollow spruce
#

The light-dark rules-game thing is a pain lmao

patent tiger
#

The world could be a beautiful thing, but it fails them, every time

frank light
#

Rules are obsessed with self preservation/the preservation of the human race.

Angels are obsessed with perfection and are really up for your improvement.
They want to help the world be perfect and beautiful.

At best this means they come in without permission and give you wise lessons.
At worst they won’t stop giving you wise lessons and changing you even if you do not want that

obsidian dagger
#

Yeah. This really wants to be Keeper of Gardens stuff, which isn't what Warmains have (by the way, what is the name for Impressario)?

frank light
#

Yeah light/dark is confusing with angels

frank light
#

Which ruleslords have both of
Keeper of gardens and architect/impressario

hollow spruce
#

Angels and Fallen are basically the 'less obviously distressing' versions of Rules and Game

obsidian dagger
#

Per the thing I'm looking at, Magisters of the Light and Angels have 50% overlap on arcs. And Magisters of the Light also have both Keeper of Gardens and Impressario (angels don't have Impressario, though).

frank light
#

Ehhhhh not really I think

candid compass
patent tiger
hollow spruce
#

dying of overgeneralization

patent tiger
#

They're both playing on the good/evil duality where good is awful, theme, but in very different ways

frank light
#

Game vs rules is
Suicide vs living and freedom vs stability

Angels vs fallen is
Improvement vs acceptance and beauty vs love

patent tiger
#

Rules and Games are about will and control, while, Angels and Devils are about beauty and suffering

#

You see, Games and Rules are actually the Law/Chaos axis, if you will

candid compass
#

the Angels want you to be better, but you will never reach their standards
the Fallen love you just as you are, but they also don't think you can ever improve

patent tiger
#

And they think it's better that you don't

frank light
#

Don’t improve actually
Set yourself on fire now

candid compass
#

yeah the thing is, by loving all the awful and wicked and corrupt things of the world, the Fallen have in turn become wicked and corrupt themselves

#

and Hell sucks

#

but it is always there for you

obsidian dagger
#

Yeah, there's almost certainly a way to wrestle a Warmain into a more sympathetic form, but I'm not quite certain how to do it. I think it starts with an admission of personal fault.

frank light
#

also a great prevention mechanism for making sure souls don’t fall into the void

#

Oh the easiest way to do it sympathetically is to learn nuance

#

60% of imperators don’t know what the fuck nuance is

#

The ones that do actually do pretty well with their philosophies
But those aren’t common

#

So a sympathetic warmain I imagine can probably pull this off

patent tiger
obsidian dagger
#

...did the Headmaster of the Bleak Academy participate in the creation of Town?

frank light
#

Unclear but doubtful.
I think town already existed before the uh…events

#

It might be a chancel of chuubos

patent tiger
#

Like, "ah, what I'm doing is wrong and I should stop" is the 'easy' villain-sympathy angle, but I don't think that's true to the Excrucians as they are

frank light
#

Could be wrong though

patent tiger
#

The reason Glitch is so interesting to me is, even from the eyes of the Chancery, they weren't necessarily wrong

#

The world is wrong, and things would be better, on a cosmic scale, if it were destroyed

#

But that doesn't help them live any better, and it hurts things they care about, and they have enough trouble just getting up in the morning

#

So, even though that's true, they stop - and that's really interesting

#

I think a sympathetic Warmain setup has to be true to a Warmain perspective, in the same way

obsidian dagger
#

Yeah. I was aiming for somehting closer to that than the Warmains just outright deciding they were previously evil, but I think I missed that goal.

#

It wasn't a renunciation of the idea that some True Good exists out there and is worthy of preservation; it's a renunciation of the idea that they, personally, possess it.

frank light
#

It’s totally…possible for warmains to exist that think other warmains are evil.
It can happen with strategists.

But yeah hitting the core of why warmains do what they do is important

#

I think something that could be interesting is that warmains aren’t exactly born by choice.

The emanations of the void that perform the first tempering that makes a warmain aren’t exactly uh…sentient

obsidian dagger
#

Actually, wouldn't most Warmains thing other Warmains are evil? Since they don't agree on what is or isn't worthy of saving.

candid compass
#

Harumaph and/or Jade were probably up to something

#

but who knows what it is

frank light
#

The reasons they do their tempering I think aren’t for universal “what is good” reasons.
I think they all agree that they’re preserving stuff that they personally think is worth preserving rather than a universal standard they hold others to

patent tiger
#

Their interest is personal

#

What they would consider evil would be something that diminishes the quality they test for, meaning, Imperators, Nobles, Deceivers, and Strategists, based on context, could all be on that chopping block

hollow spruce
#

It's not like Warmains don't work with the other excrucians either

patent tiger
#

...Shadow war between a Warmain and an Actual

frank light
#

So true

patent tiger
#

With a Pseudoself that opposes the concept they Test for

#

That would be fascinating

frank light
#

…harthelfell we need your help we have an actual

patent tiger
#

Do you?

obsidian dagger
hollow spruce
patent tiger
#

Angels are Imperators

#

But they are some of the most likely to do that, of the Imperator types

#

That might be another factor in the noted trend of Excrucians to particular seek out and kill Angels

frank light
#

Gotta love angels

frank light
#

I’m really tempted to try fleshing out the hunter miracle track

fleet harbor
#

So much of what Warmains do is out of a twisted desire to love and admire

frank light
#

i could see that

fleet harbor
#

So when a warmain learns a different way to love

#

Sometimes, at least, they just ... stop. Maybe they even keep testing but stop tempering.

frank light
#

i could honestly see that too

#

like doing testing stuff but also...not tempering

thats honestly super fun

#

cus then you still also get into conflicts with the world

fleet harbor
#

Yeah

#

... kinda think it'd be a fun villain for a Glitch campaign, even

#

A Warmain who seems even more sadistic than usual because they're not tempering

#

But of course there's no sadism

#

Just the pure, honest exhileration of seeing you at your best

frank light
#

yeah

fleet harbor
#

Like a Gamelord who on the one hand doesn't want you dead but on the other hand is much more likely to actually torture you

frank light
# 
Songs of the Wild(35 xp)

You're dealing with a fundamental incongruence in yourself, in your identity. There is a friction. On one hand, you are a god, a divine spark of the void, an emanation of pure Do-Not-Be. And on the other, you are a mortal, maybe a human. You have all these...friends and family and personality traits and immaturities. 
Maybe other people don't have this friction, maybe other people do but they deal with it better. Thats not you. You're becoming something, you're transforming, ascending, transcending. You aren't mortal anymore, you can't ever *be* mortal. 
This quest is about dealing with that incongruence, culminating in either rejecting one side or the other, escaping this dichotomy, or finding a way to live in harmony with both your selves.

Major Goals 
The GM can award you 5 xp towards this quest when:
-> You have to be shown how to do something like a 'Normal' person.
-> You dramatically enshroud yourself in a symbolically rich aura during a stressful moment.(floating eyes, brilliant light, thousands of arms unfold from your back and your face falls off, etc)
-> 
->

Quest Flavor
1/chapter, when you’re in focus, you can earn 1 xp for
yourself and 1 xp for the quest when:
-> You freak people out and don't know why
->

im gonna ask for some feedback here

anyone got fun suggestions for major goals or quest flavors?

magic mason
#

I realized all of the stats Actuals have let them do the Actual thing, not just visage
its like Dramatic Timing for Fallen

frank light
# 
Songs of the Wild(40 xp)

You're dealing with a fundamental incongruence in yourself, in your identity. There is a friction. On one hand, you are a god, a divine spark of the void, an emanation of pure Do-Not-Be. And on the other, you are a mortal, maybe a human. You have all these...friends and family and personality traits and immaturities. 
Maybe other people don't have this friction, maybe other people do but they deal with it better. Thats not you. You're becoming something, you're transforming, ascending, transcending. You aren't mortal anymore, you can't ever *be* mortal. 
This quest is about dealing with that incongruence, culminating in either rejecting one side or the other, escaping this dichotomy, or finding a way to live in harmony with both your selves.

Major Goals 
The GM can award you 5 xp towards this quest when:
-> You have to be shown how to do something like a 'Normal' person.
-> You dramatically enshroud yourself in a symbolically rich aura during a stressful moment.(floating eyes, brilliant light, thousands of arms unfold from your back and your face falls off, etc)
-> You are forced into conflict for what's *truly* important to you
-> You completely misinterpret advice but somehow succeed anyway

Quest Flavor
1/chapter, when you’re in focus, you can earn 1 xp for
yourself and 1 xp for the quest when:
-> You freak people out and don't know why
-> You think somebody is a hallucination or a part of your internal monologue(they are not)
-> The world comes to life around you
-> You have a moment of comforting normalcy
-> Your own ideals cause you problems in some way
-> You are completely calm in a situation where that is irregular
-> You...don't know how you got here
-> Someone you love is worried about you and you don't know why

FINISHED :)))

frank light
# 
You fucked up(40xp) - Aw shit you really fucked up now. You really shit the bed this time. Oh man you’re fucked this is…this is bad.
You caused someone to glitch.
Oh and that’s bad, that’s terrible, what’s worse is it’s someone you care about. Or maybe someone who you care about cares about. Point is it’s important.
Man you fucked it up.

Major goals - 5xp
- You teach someone how to navigate in the void.
- you have to prevent the subject of this quest from being obliterated by an attack.

Quest flavor -
Your bane makes things worse
Their bane makes things worse
You talk about how the world is wrong
You eat some really weird ice cream
The beauty of the void stuns either you or the subject of this quest into silence
Danger follows you or the subject of this quest

One more quest for the road

fleet harbor
#

Love that

frank light
#

Sometimes you gotta guide someone to becoming a strategist because it’s the only way to survive this shit

#

Feels good to dedicate a quest to

fleet harbor
#

Be weird if the result is a strategist who never participated in the Valde Bellum

frank light
#

Yea…that’s pretty rare

#

3 canonical cases of that

magic mason
#

Mfs that spawn as world weavers

candid compass
#

yeah who would do that? Clueless

frank light
#

Oseric <333

magic mason
#

Orange type meme

image0.jpg
obsidian dagger
#

just remembered that one time I tried to come up with an Issue for Chuubo's based on a Fallen London thing:

#

Black/Mystic Issue: Trapped in Lamentation Lock
1: You have some regrets; who doesn't? But they're not so serious, really, and they're in the past, so you should just be able to ignore them. Besides, it's not like you really need to leave Lamentation Lock right now. (+1 MP)
2: Something in particular is weighing on you. Lamentation Lock has its claws in you and is playing on your fears, because why else would you be feeling so strongly?
3: You know exactly what you regret, now. What is it? Is it your first mistake, the one that set you down your current path? One act of wickedness, of cruelty, of sin, for which you never made amends? An opportunity to take a leap of faith, but you didn't take it?
You keep telling yourself that what you did made sense, that other people have made mistakes as well. But that's not true, is it? You're in Lamentation Lock for a reason. (+1 MP)
4: You can't keep pretending anymore. What you did, what you said? You regret it. No matter how far you ran from it, some part of your mind is still back there, in that day. And until you deal with that, you'll be trapped.
Once you forgive yourself, the HG can close out the issue and you earn 4 bonus XP + 1 MP...
...or they can tell you that simply forgiving yourself for your actions and telling yourself why they were OK isn't enough, really.
5:
There's no point in dancing around it. There's no real justification for what you did, nobody else you can hide behind. It was a bad act, and you knew it. Maybe, by doing it, you're a bad person, or at least you were. Forgiving yourself isn't enough, not for what you did. Without a miracle, you'll be trapped in Lamentation Lock forever. (+1 MP)
When a miracle gives you some ability to fundamentally change and grow past the mistakes you made, close out the issue and gain 4 bonus XP + 1 MP.

#

Lamentation Lock is a literal physical prison which also traps you by the weight of your regrets. I'm imagining this would work a lot like On the Island of King Death or whatever that issue's phrased as, where, yes, you aren't physically there anymore, but you haven't left either, not really.

#

(at least, that's what it is in Fallen London. Still not sure why I did this, honestly.)

obsidian dagger
#

I also... okay, I want to know whether I ought to try to write this concept up as a quest, or an entire quest set, because I plausibly feel like it could be either. The basic concept behind it is thus:

You have some... thing you need to practice; it's called your Talent for the purpose of these quests, although that name might be slightly off. The assumption is that it's a Superior or Magical Skill, but it could be a mundane Skill or even a Miraculous Power and it'd still work fine for this quest. Anyway:

You need to practice your Talent, and you know you can get better at it with practice... but there's some obstacle in your way. Maybe you need resources to work with, and you can't find them or can't get them easily. Maybe your Talent could cause collateral damage if you practice with it injudiciously. Maybe the people around you are scared of your Talent, or you're worried they'll be scared. Maybe you need someone else to compete against, and there's nobody else to compete with who's on your level. Maybe it's just that nobody around you gets it. For whatever reason, you want to practice, but something's holding you back.

#

Enter: your Mentor.

Somehow, you'll end up meeting with a Mentor who knows more about your talent than you do. And they'll take you to a Sanctum, which is the perfect place to practice your talent. Whatever the problem was, above, it's just... gone. You have access to exactly what you need, and are probably surrounded with peers, and everybody around you knows about your talent. It's a little slice of heaven for you, where you can grow and learn and maybe even settle down.

Only... you can't settle down. Or, at least, you shouldn't.

Maybe the Sanctum's secretly evil, or your Mentor's secretly evil. Maybe it's not even all that secret! Maybe they want you to abandon your old friends, and your old life, and you don't want to do that. Maybe it's just that you have some other obligation, or something else you need to do. So you have to leave. And your Mentor doesn't like that; they want you to stick around because this is where you belong or because they think it would be best for you or they want to control you or they just think you're not done with your training.

#

This is... definitely the kind of story I've seen a lot of times. I could see it being an Arc, with the steps being something like "Stuck somewhere you can't practice your Talent" -> "Getting introduced to the Sanctum and discovering that it's awesome for you" -> "Acknowledging you need to leave, even though you don't want to" -> (optionally) "Your Mentor tries to stop you from leaving" -> (optionally) ...I'm not sure what the fifth quest would be; maybe "You reminisce on the lessons you've learned and how they've changed life outside the Sanctum". Probably I should either say "this is a quest, not a quest set, because it doesn't make sense to do it a whole bunch of times", or look at the prototype quest set sketches to figure out which it fits best (and I feel like these could definitely be shuffled around! There's a version of this where:

  1. You realize you need to leave, and so you do.
  2. You reflect on how you don't "fit in" outside the Sanctum.
  3. Your Mentor tries to get you to return.
  4. (optional) You reminisce on the positive aspects of the Sanctum, and (presumably) decide to try to make life outside the sanctum reflect that; or, you find somewhere else that isn't the sanctum but is better for you.
  5. You're surprised at how well you're accepted in this new place.
#

The first version is Purple, I think? Normally Practice looks Gold, but this is about when the Talent is something that's kind of part of you. Like, Superior Werewolf would be a great Talent for this. It also works for psychic powers, or anything too esoteric for those around you, but... in general, it's a kind of specific shape of story, where the talent is primarily a reflection of your identity as much as it is something you know how to do.

#

Note also that I've written the Mentor as being kind of evil by default, but you could totally also have them mostly just saying "no! Your training isn't finished yet! You need to stick around!" or have some sort of thing where it's for an angelic being (not an actual Angel, mind you) who decides to ditch Heaven and "slum it" even though it means leaving somewhere where their talents and their personhood are respected and cultivated, because they just couldn't bear to stay any longer.

obsidian dagger
#

just rediscovered that I made this at some point in the past! Remember when this was a meme template?

wyl_iolithae_final.png
frank light
#

Oh this is great lmao

# 
Palace of dreams - you have a rich deep inner world. A literal one. There are entire small worlds within you, formed from the abstract stretches of your Wyrd and Eide. They sometimes have people, places, treasures and riches and relics. If you can find a way to venture inside, perhaps they can be of use to you.
The existence of this world is powered by a Wish. 
You can reshape this inner world with a Painful action.

This inner world could have its own region properties, wards, and powerful beings. However their specifics should be discussed with the gm.


Greater masking (12)
Painful (4 burn)(-5)
Self only(-5)
Comprehensive(-1)
Uncommon(+1)

2cp
#

Here’s a silly gift. Have a rich inner world that is metaphysically concrete

restive ridge
# 
Mimicry....
... steals from the stronger
... mirrors only the surface details 
... preserves History
... is a cursed, literal weapon
... twists the user
... acts as the highest form of flattery
... confuses and bewilders```
acoustic dagger
#

Is this nobilis

#

I’m waiting quietly on my glitch

magic mason
#

mfs be like "I want to grant a mortal immortality" but when I suggest using Epic Greater Invocation to bind someone to the earth eternal, denying them the rite to gaze upon the gates of heaven or burn within the hells with my overwhelming miraclous attack they are like "WTF fluffy" and "Why would I want to do that"

magic mason
acoustic dagger
#

I mean if it’s specific to a system or not

patent tiger
#

It's specific to all the systems Fluffy just listed

acoustic dagger
#

Ah

patent tiger
#

(Assuming you mean this thread)

acoustic dagger
#

Because the reply consumed me

magic mason
#

Oh I am sorry

magic mason
#

Deceiver idea(Not Persona centric)
Khethas of Chicago, who experiences mortality

fleet harbor
#

Is Khethas a cubs fan

#

God you know what'd be funny

#

The worst deceiver, who became a deceiver because they were a cubs fan

#

And then the cubs broke their losing streak

#

And they're just sitting there like

#

"what"

#

"but"

#

"i'm a void god now"

magic mason
#

That would be really funny

magic mason
# fleet harbor Is Khethas a cubs fan

the way Khethas works is that they can use Theft to separate people's mortality from their body and turn them into minons and Sealed to force people to experience mortality

#

like Khethas has a squad of a dozen people around them at all times that all have phylacterys

magic mason
#

the deep mythic

image.png
patent tiger
#

I think this is just True Gods

magic mason
#

its even more fitting for true gods because they are fighting in the documentary

patent tiger
#

Amazing

magic mason
#

Mimics

2c9.png
obsidian dagger
#

I simultaneously know exactly what this means and find this totally incomprehensible.

#

Or, rather, I find the fact that I know what this means to be completely incomprehensible.

hollow spruce
#

Ru just absolutely fucking blindsided me today in Glitch and I'm kind of off-kilter and also loving it

#

I'm not sure how to explain any of this, even, it's a lot, but

#

Okay so pretty early in the game we established that the local place of journalism was powered by the strongest wish ever made, that True Journalism Will Never Die, as a sort of offhand side thing

vivid wraith
#

👀

hollow spruce
#

I, naturally, with my sad sack man of a character who would be funny to give a job to, decided to have him follow the plot thread of working there, because that's interesting

#

We meet the crew, bunch of oddballs, it's established they're all kind of strange, especially two; Sloane and the boss (who is unnamed because Gaul never asked and is too nervous to change that). It's later established after some shenanigans with another PC that the employees and place is protected with a Geas 7 of being True Journalists.