#Indie+Alternative Wargaming

1 messages · Page 17 of 1

twin mountain
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when does it get stressed?

tawny sandal
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CB?

compact leaf
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Corvus Belli

twin mountain
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10 pages later, we have the stress and morale section

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in the middle of a random list of places you can get stress is a very important hidden rule

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like literally it's a list of reminders and also THE MAIN WAY YOU GAIN STRESS

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if you were already activated previously during the current round and your activation ends, you gain a stress

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but wait there's this section here... that says that okay, if youru nit has stress equal to morale, then you can only do a rest. there's a big reminder text box here saying that you can't voluntarily stress stress-maxed units

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because, if you go back 5 pages

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okay, so, randomly in the rules for long actions is an insanely important rule that actually you don't get stressed retroactively even after you activated after activating previously if you rest

compact leaf
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heeey Winged
I have more to add to the pile

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turns out this is true!

twin mountain
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so like, you don't rest, clear all stress, then gain 1 stress to the end of the turn

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right.

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I figured

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because actually I think that part of the rulebook is just saying like.. "you can't voluntarily stress your guys past morale limits"

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but activating to put a token on a person that's morale maxed doesn't stress them actually

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so you can still move and attack

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you don't have to rest

compact leaf
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which means you could move and attack under these circumstances-

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ye

twin mountain
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but you CAN activate a unit to push them OVER morale max if you rest because that retroactively doesn't morale max them

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this is like. it took me like years to figure this out from this rulebook

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meanwhile, this guy on reddit:

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made this

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holy fuck thank you

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like it's insane how simple the algorithm is but getting any actual explanations out from corvus belli is like pulling teeth from the tooth fairy

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jesus fucking christ

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okay there i'm done, i'm done being petty mad

compact leaf
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I'm so sorry

twin mountain
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but my experience with the rulebook has been like this all day

compact leaf
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this is sadly how things are with CB...

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Admittedly the Warcrow team have been a lot better with actually taking feedback than the Infinity team, at least..

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hopefully they make the layout a bit more sensible.. hopefully..

twin mountain
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I hope so because they didn't even translate all the Spanish to English in the update document

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And their main document starts on page 299

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i talk to my friends about bad game smell a lot - this is. this is the smell

native portal
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imagining doing this at the table is giving me an aneurism

twin mountain
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But it was still twice as slow as most things I run

echo marten
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Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? XD

twin mountain
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Honestly the activation system is very cool and interesting

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I'd like to try the game more

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The actual game itself is not very clunky

compact leaf
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Game good, evil rules layout though.
At least for now.

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We're finally sifting through the final pages and it's starting to all make sense

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And then our journey through the errata is going to be a whole other thing..

sand sonnet
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CB has mastered the art of writing bad rules for good games then translating them poorly.

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Infinity was like this earlier on too

compact leaf
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The gigantic spotlight illuminating this darkness is that it's been improving much faster than its predecessor

echo marten
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Anima 🤝 Incomprehensible Spanish Translation 🤝 Corvus Belli

compact leaf
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Mm

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Honestly warcrow may become my main game if it takes off over here

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At least for a bit

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CB hitting us with "yeah, we want at most 3 sectorials in all factions, and Onyx is getting a rework" last year, and then coming this year with "yeah so CA is getting a 4th sectorial" was.. very weird and icky to us

echo marten
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My heretical take is that CB killed their most fun sectorials in the cut down numbers-wise.

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Like losing both the French and the Scottish from Ariadna? For the incredibly generic Americans and Russians...it feels like they scrapped the sectorials with real identity to them.

compact leaf
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Aleph still sitting here with 2 sectorials as the other AI faction gets to break the rules and have 4 sadcowboy

cyan badge
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My opinion is 'I mained scots and frenchmen in ardiana and NCA in pano'

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needless to say I was a little miffed

compact leaf
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Ariadna hasn't gained much yet, but is at least set to.

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Man this is coming up again isn't it..

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sigh

supple shale
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I have not played a game of Infinity since they did my FRRM like that

cyan badge
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Mind, the other faction I Played a lot was QK, so... atl east there's that?

echo marten
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Gunna also put this out there: What is Svalarheima's deal? I play PanO and I can't for the life of me tell you what that sectorial does that makes it notably unique.

cyan badge
#

Uhhh. Winter camo?

compact leaf
echo marten
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That's also Military Order's thing 😛

compact leaf
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It's really not, I promise.

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MO can't really CC things like everyone assumes they do.
MO is a stat stick shooty faction, not a CC faction.

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SWF also is.. just straightforwardly the most PanO faction from what we've been told by the mains.

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  • a bunch of good CC fighters and super jump/climbing plus
echo marten
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I mean, MO being bad at being a CC faction doesn't really stop it being a faction that invests a fair bit in melee weapons/it clearly intended as such in many units cases. XD

compact leaf
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It's unfortunate that you're spending points on it but like

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Yeah

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It comes up sometimes I guess

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Makes the knights not complete pushovers in CC

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But MA2 is not MA4, sadly

echo marten
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But yeah...I dunno. I think MO is the only PanO sectorial that really earned its place as the 1/3 as it brought something unique both thematically and mechanically. I miss NCA. I have models from that sectorial I can't use any more as the unit just ceased existing. ;-;

compact leaf
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KCF has kinda carved out the place where SAA used to be

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But it's still hollow

echo marten
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*KFC 😛

compact leaf
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VPanO has basically become the new NCA

echo marten
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I miss Auxila. They were such a fun unit.

compact leaf
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Yeah...
Still here in spirit, I guess gestures to the auxbots with heavy weapons

echo marten
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'Please, run around the corner to get to my cheerleaders, I promice you there isn't a Heavy Flamethrower waiting for you'

tepid steeple
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Drummer 5 has a heavy flamer ye

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Not as cheap as auxilia were tho

echo marten
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They are but they're also a much more expensive model so they end up not quite filling the same role

cyan badge
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mmm auxilia FOs... 14 point regular order specialist with a g;sync specialist...

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also, bolts. Always loved me bolts.

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I think bolts are still about?

tepid steeple
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Synchronised stuff is so good in general

echo marten
cyan badge
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oof

echo marten
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Kinda surprised they didn't get shoved into Kestral or something.

tepid steeple
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Vanilla getting fireteams now though means they can still do haris n such

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Which is fairly rare

echo marten
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That's true, though I still miss NCA. They were such an asshole sectorial (Appreciative)

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'Here are my cheap line troops. They have a flamethrower buddy. Here are my Swiss Guard. They are swiss guard. Here are Bolts, they are just brutal against anyone trying to do Fancy Tricks themselves'

compact leaf
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I mean
Swiss and Aquila are also still here, luckily

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That..
That's it, though..

tepid steeple
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Cant really do france things at all now

echo marten
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I'm also a bit bitter in Australian as NCA was the only Oceanian sectorial in PanOceania 😛

compact leaf
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France is completely gone

tepid steeple
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Or like you can do some things but thats only because kosmoflot stole those things in the first place

compact leaf
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The Scots are basically all in Kosmo, at least

tepid steeple
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Ava 1 moblot is just like

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🤯

compact leaf
echo marten
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Yeah. France is completely gone and a lot of the Scottish stuff isn't really a thing any more.

cyan badge
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what does france even have stilli n vanilla. Paracommandos, moblots, loup-garou, chasseurs, briscards, jacque, mirage-5, and apaches

echo marten
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The scottish stuff isn't entirely gone but it's a lot less 'here is my courtesy list' Hands you a blank sheet of paper.

cyan badge
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Still doable in vanilla, the blank courtesy list

compact leaf
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Always has been :3

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Whilst we understand booting a bunch of factions they simply can't produce or have the time to balance anymore for the sake of a better future-

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The real thing that's got me miffed now is the Infinity team sorta going back on it by adding another sectorial to a faction that really doesn't need one.

echo marten
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Yeah, CA doesn't really lack for things

compact leaf
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Nar

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They've got a lot of new stuff too

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and they told us Onyx was getting a rework but..
Now they're either getting axed too or put oop

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Or..
Something else

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hhh
I just wish we knew more about what's having those decisions made

echo marten
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My heretical thought in CA is that a lot of CA's unique toys should get less unique, to match how most other factions don't have their own unique toys being only for them. Like not super common but the number of people with plasma can be counted on one hand.

tepid steeple
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Plasma specifically has been spreading tbf

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Like in kcf and shinden

echo marten
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It's on 3 units now!

tepid steeple
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O-12

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But yeah its dumb

echo marten
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ALEPH Sepsitor as they just go 'I'm already in the cube network' 😛

twin mountain
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Aristeia? Loved it

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Warcrow is AA? I'm in

compact leaf
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We still haven't gotten into Aristeia yet but we're very interested in it

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Warcrow and Ember have been such novel experiences for us, our first true AA wargames

native portal
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I'm looking at warcrow but the factions are uhhh not selling me

echo marten
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They're a bit baseline fantasy. I'm hoping for some spice.

native portal
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They're VERY baseline fantasy

compact leaf
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It's very much the minis, rather than faction lore, that's getting me into the game right now
(Well and the rules, obviously)

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But I suspect things are going to get fleshed out more as things go, right now we're just in season 1

tepid steeple
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I read one (1) lore and found out that the big guy in the new box, with the sippy cup, he keeps his old blood in there

compact leaf
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He sure does

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As a memento

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Ah..

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I will say, if warcrow has done anything right, it's the elves

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They're a lot more interesting than the typical "we are superior beings and also huge pricks" you usually see

echo marten
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Making the hero for the Scions Nuada was certainly an interesting choice.

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I am intrigued by their fluff and if they're actually going to be the 'evil' faction or more well...Anarchist/Opposed to the Hegemony but not inherently evil. Their human followers mostly come from those who society has treated terribly and cast out.

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As they're right now the most unique of the factions imo

compact leaf
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Definitely, yeah.
A lot of folks are being attracted to the game purely because they're in it haha

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Though I also have a strange feeling this guy is gonna bring some people in too..

1d7650ff402c3bd15fbdebd62a76187a.jpg
echo marten
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I'm unsurprisingly into Elves(Forest) and Elves(Illegal HRT Production) 😛

twin mountain
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Turns out everyone I date cough @austere isle @fast glade cough are into incredibly kitschy basic fantasy and pointy hat wizard stuff

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So I'm teaching them mage knight, buying them barony, etc

fast glade
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hey, that's two out of many

twin mountain
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Alex is my warg wife

echo marten
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Using Nuada's name for the Scion hero has me intrigued what they're looking at doing there. As Nuada's silver hand is A) One of my favorite Irish myths of all time. B) An Odd name to pick if you were going to make them an evil faction as he's the iconic 'good king, returning to help' character in that myth.

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he's also a brilliant name for a self-modification/transhumanist elf faction.

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Being one of the earliest mythological cyborgs 😛

compact leaf
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gasp
Oh my god none of the wizards in this game have pointy hats videogames

native portal
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I quite like basic fantasy but it's all a bit tired

austere isle
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I guess it depends a bit on the specifics

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I find the more old school weird crunkly fantasy more fun than the sleeker more modern stuff

echo marten
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I'm mostly kinda hoping they go places with some of these Irish Mythology takes they're setting up. As Irish Mythology is so often treated as 'sure, whatever, use it as a grab bag' rather than something to actually do something interesting with/care about but Nuada has me hoping for some wild takes here. XD

native portal
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I will say the sculpts themselves seem very competantly done

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which is kind of CB's thing

cyan badge
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I honeslty haven't looked much into warcrow

echo marten
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(Sorry for becoming a stereotype of myself with the rambling about Nuada)

compact leaf
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You're good Ikiryo EnbyHeart
We know..
Next to nothing of mythologies around the world, so we appreciate seeing people passionate about them.

compact leaf
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I just can't immediately form an opinion on them like every single other one

twin mountain
# cyan badge I honeslty haven't looked much into warcrow

here's my pitch

  • you walk into a fight with like 8 units
  • but you only get maybe 5 activations per round
  • you can keep chain activating the same unit. they just take more and more heat stress which makes it easier to overheat demoralize them and then they're kinda screwed
  • you can activate a unit just to vent all its heat stress
  • at the end of the round, everyone vents a little heat stress. units you didn't activate at all get a free movement to get with the rest of the team.
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it's a very interesting and cool alternating activation system that tells an excellent story of specifically ancient warfare morale and totally not any other genre of tactical combat

potent wyvern
twin mountain
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yeah it's basically corvus belli going "okay what if we still keep our infinity chain activations but it's like. alternating activations and also we've thought it through way better"

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cheerleaders? no you just get N activations per round and N is set by the scenario

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rambo? I mean, sure, until someone pushes them over the edge into burnout, stress is kind of an important secondary hp track

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you can even activate your guys in reaction and stuff. like if someone charges your archers you can just activate your archers on the stack to shoot them on the way in, stuff like that

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it feels like (very personal take here) infinity but they fixed it. they even do that infinity thing where you get a bunch of command tokens from your cool guys but instead here it's like

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your officers give you a pile of command tokens you can spend across the entire fight as non renewable mana for cool sexy special abilities on all your units

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it's not action econ though

echo marten
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(I like cheerleaders and ramboing, as they lead to some interesting play scenarios but I know they're not for everyone)

twin mountain
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for what it's worth I also play chess, which is the ultimate rambo game, and I like it

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there are games that can make it work for me but infinity didn't

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it just didn't fit the sci-fi swat team vibe to me I dunno

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extremely funny that their vision of a cool team of spec ops marines breach and clearing some shady warehouse is like 4 guys sitting back and vibrating while the shotgun guy sprints through

echo marten
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To be fair, I also play aleph, the faction where we have actual guys who's in-universe role is 'provide extra processing power to the guys fighting' 😛

twin mountain
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yeah I played aleph too

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so I get it

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it's just. I dunno it felt like a game kinda just doubling down on the silliest part of it

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it's very "last hitting in dota" shaped

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oh they get money when they get the killing blow on our guys? it's commissar time boys

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and it kinda works for me because of how insanely stupid and abstract dota is

echo marten
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I should play some War Crow. I want to try out Elves, Transhumanist (Transelvenist?).

tawny sandal
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No one expects it, thus catching the opposition off-guard galaxybrain

twin mountain
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if the community settled on calling the chain activating guy the leeroy jenkins instead of the rambo

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that would've improved many conversations i've had about activation systems yes

sudden halo
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Infinity feels better the better both players are. They've reduced the importance of cheerleaders in a few ways since I started, and in a tough match you need to activate lots of units to solve different problems. In a less even game though it does feel like you're either chain activating your super soldier to singlehandedly win, or chain activating Leeroy Jenkins because they're your best option and you're hoping the dice carry you.

sudden halo
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The basic fantasy nature of the factions appeals to me too. It's super nice to have some really nice classic fantasy style sculpts that have good realish proportions. If you wanted classic fantasy models your best bet might be Reaper's line, and those are pretty all over the place. I think I'm also worn out on games trying to get me into their super unique setting when sometimes you just wanna be a wizard.

modern snow
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it's full of clunk but also full of fun design explorations

twin mountain
echo marten
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I'm really sad what Warmachine did with Retribution, it kinda resulted in me dropping the game.

twin mountain
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What did they do

velvet badge
#

Alright so all this talk has me tentatively interested in warcrow but yeah it definitely seems difficult to get your hands on everything you need to learn it. Core rules are there, errata exists but is seperate. I can't for the life of me find a document for unit profiles and points tho, despite there being a doc with a handful of errata'd profiles

echo marten
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They killed the entire faction, then reanimated them into undead, after making it clear that Elf Mengele was the hero all along.

twin mountain
velvet badge
#

I've got a warcrow adventures set, so I'm drowning in scions minis I need to get around to painting

twin mountain
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I can run it for people here in a pinch

echo marten
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How do Scions play?

sudden halo
velvet badge
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Damn, good to know

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So I guess all that's actually playable right now is the northern tribes, hegemony and elf stuff they've released?

twin mountain
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Also the demons

echo marten
velvet badge
twin mountain
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Former

modern snow
echo marten
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They're a bit more Transhumanist than Demons, reading the fluff that's available.

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Anarchist Transhumanist Elves

velvet badge
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Well gives me time to get my shit painted I suppose

sudden halo
modern snow
compact leaf
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One guy has been working his ass off and made a pretty solid army builder web app (and an official one is on the way)

compact leaf
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All that's left is Feudom and Dweghom..

compact leaf
# echo marten How *do* Scions play?

We have a scions player in our local group..
All they've really ever said is "dang, these guys are weird". From our perspective, they've built the faction mainly around using Tinge and healing/regenerating your own units. No clue what Redcaps do though, but I think they have a seperate game plan?

#

Guh
Sorry for all the text..
We wish we could've actually participated in the conversation a little sooner 😅

echo marten
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It looks like red caps get moved about by their own allies a lot

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As a lot of models have 'throw red caps' 😛

compact leaf
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Oh I guess they also just spawn in huh

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Neat

echo marten
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I'm very new to this but it seems like both red caps and risen do a lot of durability stuff via 'stuff it, respawning'.

compact leaf
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Yeye

echo marten
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The humans don't respawn but seem to do a lot with frightened and 'sacrafice either health or stress for buffs'.

compact leaf
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I mean
Needle does exist, it can respawn anything

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Oh!
That was another one.
Scions also have a habit of changing dice needed to succeed

twin mountain
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@fast glade @toxic trench warcrow talk

echo marten
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'Please stop making more zombies'
'no'

image.png
compact leaf
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You do still have to pay for them, but this guy can basically summon them all in next to him once he's up the board

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Or well.. the ones that can start under the master at least..

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Most of them have to die first :b

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We are supremely curious about what the Feudom are going to be up to though

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Right now their stuff seems built around turning off tricks and hammer+anvil tactics (we still don't have a very good hammer)

echo marten
#

Nuada looks interesting, though he also looks like he really wants Redcaps/loses a lot without a chunk of them.

image.png
compact leaf
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Yeaa

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He came with the redcap box

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So it's to be expected

echo marten
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I do hope they do more with these guys than 'Evil Elves'. I like their vibe and the mention that the humans that join the family are generally those oppressed and outcast from other human groups.

compact leaf
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Well

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The scions certainly don't see themselves as evil, and from their PoV and that of their followers... They're just a bunch of artists perfecting their craft

echo marten
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Yeah, my vibe from reading their fluff is that from their perspective they're people being mistreated for using dangerous but not evil magic/people trying to impose artificial limits on what can be studied.

image.png
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While Hegemony is actively described as 'An army of occupation'

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So it seems like it's going to be less black and white about 'who are the assholes here' than it seems on first blush.

compact leaf
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We're pretty sure there are intentionally going to be some goodies and some baddies everywhere, hopefully a lot of the characters fall into grey areas

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We don't really like when a characters' entire vibe is built around "I'm the good guy"

echo marten
#

...guys, I think you used the same mythological name twice. Unless they intend these two characters to be connected.

image.png
#

they might be connected, as that effect basicly gives her a 1/game effect that's very similar to his every turn full heal

compact leaf
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They likely would be, seeing as she has something from him

echo marten
#

Yeah, I'm not 100% sure if that's indented or they accidentily used the same mythological name twice.

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As Nuada's a rather famous tuatha de dannan

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I'm going to assume intended?

compact leaf
#

Well like
Nuada is thousands(?) of years old in this instance, and predates the split between elven cultures. There's probably some lore in the book.. but this is all referring to the same person for sure.

sand sonnet
orchid tulip
compact leaf
#

Many such cases

orchid tulip
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SUch a good ability

image.png
echo marten
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I'm intrigued by Echos but it doesn't seem like much interacts with them, they're very elfcontained.

orchid tulip
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Vinyara looks like a Echo named Chara but I can't find a card for her

echo marten
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I'm very new to this but it looks like Echos are No-Frills 'Just Beat Your Ass With Raw Stats' units?

orchid tulip
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Redcaps seems to be able to recur dead units

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And be able to move other units by throwing them

echo marten
#

Elf Ghost Possessed Statue

orchid tulip
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I wonder if this would be a fun/okay list

image.png
#

Idea for the command tokens is to throw and recur the Bugbowls

echo marten
#

Team Yeet

orchid tulip
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Ye

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Both Crucible and Overseer can toss, with Bugs and Osseous being the projctiles

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Replaced Osseous with Gobblers as they can also get recured

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Red Wave, Tiny and Yeet are the 3 best things with Red Caps

twin mountain
#

oh shit right - @fast glade @toxic trench hey something I learned and super missed when running warcrow yesterday: it commits the cardinal sin of having special rules on unit tags

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so like

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the warg riders

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they have the special rules bloodlust and raging

fast glade
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uh oh

twin mountain
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so it had to charge the bulwarks anyway

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but also it gets a special secret bonus when it does so

echo marten
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I thought that second line there was common rules, with the line above it being tags.

twin mountain
twin mountain
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with all the free space

fast glade
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Yeah damn

orchid tulip
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But not all cards have that free space

fast glade
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It's still pretty iffy as a design choice

twin mountain
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would've been nice to at least not have it typeset exactly like the unit tags in the same area in the format that all other card games use to designate "not important, other effects will hook onto this"

fast glade
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Yeah

twin mountain
orchid tulip
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I agree that a better distinction between ability words and type words is needed, but cards that can join very quickly lose space

overseer_card_en.jpg
twin mountain
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DX

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cards are double sided!

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we have cards that do this

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Companion and then a full reminder blob

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at the very least typeset it as anything other than "in the same location as unit tags italicized the same way"

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like

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look at coal

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the 1st line is tags, the 2nd line is rules

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except here the unit has no tags

orchid tulip
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Are these actaully double sided or are they 2 diff cards in print?

twin mountain
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so you're supposed to know that it's like.... secretly an empty first line

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and that companion - join line is the second line

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this is terrible?

orchid tulip
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I agree that they should take a couple more passes on card layout and design

twin mountain
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even like one line in the abilities section below going like
{passive} ELITE {passive} JOINS INFANTRY etc

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like just make it clear they have extra abilities you look up elsewhere

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it'll be one line

orchid tulip
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"Cheapest" way would just to put in a line between Type/Tag and Abilities

twin mountain
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bolden the abilities or something

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or just use the existing typography they have for abilities

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the lil triskelion

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while i'm being petty and a copyeditor, here's the only place they're in the rulebook:

image.png
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uh huh

image.png
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they don't even get their own line item

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the tags get a line item

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why does CB love hiding rules in random lists of stuff

orchid tulip
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Don't you love lists?

twin mountain
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there's literally a reference loop in the book ("A: see B" "B: see A") and the actual rule is like hidden in half a sentence during the loop

supple shale
#

Classic CB moment

sudden halo
#

CB has the dangerous combination of being really good at writing rules and being really bad at writing rules.

compact leaf
compact leaf
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It's one of the (presently) non-tournament-legal warcrow adventures units

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Which are probably going to be subject to some kind of rework if they ever release them separately

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(seeing as that's what's happening to Scions)

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So..
Isn't the standard at all, basically 😔

compact leaf
#

We are getting a little tired of being loudly upset with CB games though..
The negativity is getting us burned out on all of them :(

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And like
They are still fun and functional, just. The rules are a bit Byzantine-

sudden halo
#

I think it's just frustration because they're truly good games, they just make some decisions in terms of layout and editing that make things challenging.

N5 is a pretty solid step forward. Still some rules put in "Important" boxes and other places that look like reminder text but after the first round of errata theyre pretty clean.

#

They approach rule books a lot more like technical documentation than a lot of other companies, which I think is a really good approach, especially since Infinity is such a a tournament game, but it's also a bit unusual and when something is missing it really stands out.

twin mountain
#

My bad till <3

compact leaf
#

Nar, is okey
Just
We're worried it'll turn into that kind of thing if it continues. It mostly just kinda sucked to see the whole chat get taken over by it, if that makes sense.

tepid steeple
#

Infinity is super cool and I like it alot

sudden halo
#

I need to start practicing for the Krug. I haven't played any infinity in a few months

compact leaf
#

Oh, we completely forgot the Krug was a thing-

#

I wonder if they ever ironed out their special FAQs, we hope so

twin mountain
#

anyway, do plan on playing more warcrow - especially as new stuff comes out and they maybe print a new unified rulebook

#

also: no complaints about aristeia? I was very impressed with that game ngl

#

the cards, the rulebooks, the rules themselves, everything

#

it was one of my favorite wargames for a while

compact leaf
#

We still want to get into the Hexadome ourselves but nobody locally is up for it ;-;

twin mountain
#

as a designer and sorta editor who likes bodyslamming rulebooks I just care about a lot of this stuff and I know my friends find it funny when I get loudly mad about something petty and typographic

#

but I do want it to ultimately come out in positive ways

#

it's been lovely helping @modern snow with their documents (and a whole bunch of other devs too)

#

-# ngl I do sometimes wonder if I should try doing this in a more professional context.

tepid steeple
#

One thing i really like is the infinity wiki

orchid tulip
#

Winged: Layout design and gametest consultant service?

tepid steeple
#

Especially the most recent version

#

I actually dont know if Ive seen anything like it, at least not official from the devs

compact leaf
#

If CB has done anything correctly, they have excellent quality digital rules and army builders.

#

Which ultimately fixes literally all the layout problems by making it all accessible from troop profiles-

twin mountain
orchid tulip
#

Do you enjoy doing it?

twin mountain
#

yeah honestly I do

#

but more than just enjoying it I'm wondering if it's just something that's harder for other people to do than I initially expected and I can just help people out by being someone they can call

#

I remember doing a few passes on @final crown 's core rules for exoterra

#

writing out the rules in your own head is just hard

orchid tulip
#

With the caveat that the old saying "if you work with something you love, you won't work a day for your life" or however it goes, is a lie why not earn some extra income from something you enjoy?

final crown
orchid tulip
#

A fresh pair of eyes

final crown
#

Those were fun nights! You dumping callouts and typos, me jamming tunes super loud and cranking away at updates and fixes.

twin mountain
#

@modern snow gave me some cool mobile arms stuff, was nice

#

haha I remember damn

#

it was like days of staring at every single comma

final crown
#

hahahah, do we need you mr comma

compact leaf
#

Writing critique good..
Winged is very good at it, we think it would be a very solid prospect?

twin mountain
#

the neverending song

final crown
#

i had a few people in the server message me saying, holy shit yall are going DEEP

twin mountain
#

omg

final crown
#

This is the fun stuff.
The business side...oof...not so much

twin mountain
#

jared ngl there was some other guy you poked for help with the pdf and he looked at it and just went "good! I dunno" and I wanted to scream

#

me with my 50 pages of notes

#

anyway super excited to see both your projects hit crowdfunding soon

modern snow
twin mountain
#

omg

modern snow
#

also I have you directly to blame for turning the campaign book into a full-on revised edition of the game lol

#

so... shrugcats

final crown
orchid tulip
#

Layout and editing is a skill not everyone have/can master

twin mountain
final crown
twin mountain
#

fuck yes do post it

final crown
twin mountain
#

we're literally the lancer discord

final crown
#

i 10000% think people whould have a graphic designer

twin mountain
#

i'm here for all indie games but ESPECIALLY mech indie games like oh my goddd

#

everyone here would sleep with a gundam plushie if they found one in ikea

final crown
#

rejoice mecha fans!!!

#

hahahah, i won't deny that

twin mountain
orchid tulip
#

When you wanna support a indie game but the shipping is almost as much as the item you wanna buy 😭

echo marten
#

winces in australian

orchid tulip
#

I am in Europe tho

#

This doesn't make sense, why would I pay more for almost double the delivery time?

image.png
compact leaf
#

Many such cases for us... 😔

native portal
#

Doing feedback and proofreading is hard work but kinda fun

compact leaf
#

We haven't had many opportunities to, sadly.
But we have a few game creators in our circle we should probably reach out to..

sudden halo
# twin mountain but more than just enjoying it I'm wondering if it's just something that's harde...

I think it really is something that does not come naturally to a lot of people, particularly the card layout/iconography stuff and general information access, but also making rules procedures make sense and unambiguous.

Rulebook writing and editing is kind of a combination of technical writing and UI design. Technical writing is a niche skill and career field and damn if there's a lot of fucking terrible UI's that make it to market from billion dollar companies never mind indie creators.

#

Its definitely something valuable and uncommon. I don't meet many people with either of those skills and I'm not actually sure I've met anyone else with the particular combination that you have.

twin mountain
#

Hmm something to consider

stable pelican
#

TIL BOT WARS minis are 3D printable + 3D printing supported

#

gonna make a diorama lol

#

skybound transformers spoilers but this is what im going for

SPOILER_IMG_9884.jpg
tawny sandal
#

Hey, sorta not sure where to ask this so think I might ask here and in Technical: I’m looking to print up some vehicles to make a PLANMC mechanized platoon. Options are the ZBD-05 (tracked IFV with a light tank variant) and the ZBL-09 (wheeled, has APC and IFV variants). Which do ya’ll think would be better to print up, since I can’t seem to find info on what is generally used by the PLANMC these days or in what combination?

native portal
#

Unless you specifically want to emphasize that you're playing an amphibious assault force

tawny sandal
#

Well, most potential Chinese near future scenarios involve amphibious stuff, but I also get what you mean

native portal
#

That's their whole niche

tawny sandal
#

But the ZBL is more general PLA rather than PLANMC it seems from my annoyingly limited information?

#

It’s oddly hard to find up to date Chinese army stuff, unless I’m missing some stuff

#

I appreciate you giving input btw

native portal
#

Armament wise they're very similar

#

105mm, autocannon, mg

tawny sandal
#

Yeah

#

Stats are pretty similar on tabletop so I’m more looking at it from an interest/representing actual ORBAT to a degree

native portal
#

Yeah good luck finding accurate chinese orbat

#

Especially if you don't read mandarin

tawny sandal
#

Nope!

#

I’m kinda going off vibes and some vague stuff I’ve seen from public US military/defense stuff and tabletop sources

#

I was sorta hoping we might have some people who’d know a bit more, but wasn’t holding out too much hope

trail fulcrum
#

paint the squares paint the squars

tawny sandal
#

Look, don’t tempt me, I’ve done hazard stripes on curved surfaces before

#

This would be nothin’ compared to that, just break out some tape

trail fulcrum
#

Also imo it's more of a everyone runs the ZBL

#

type 08 d

tawny sandal
#

The real question is: do the more reasonable sorta-woodland camo pattern or the utterly absurd oceanic camo

trail fulcrum
#

oceanic lets go

#

they'll be rolling in on those wild ass ship docks

tawny sandal
#

Funny option would maybe be oceanic on the ZBD-05’s and “normal” on some ZBL-09’s

trail fulcrum
tawny sandal
#

I know that the PLANMC is phasing out that ridiculous oceanic pattern, but man if I kinda don’t wanna still use it

weary cradle
#

it wouldnt out of the question iirc

#

i remember finding a paper that talked abt how the pla keeps old stuff in reserve than trashing it

tawny sandal
#

Tbh I’d be surprised if they didn’t, every military loves keeping stuff a really long time just in case

tawny sandal
#

I just realized that, via the magic of different filament colors, I could print any PLANMC vehicles in blue (both as a joke but also for easy pre-painting battlefield ID at a glance)

sand cloak
#

Very true

compact leaf
#

So I've taken a look at some of the Aristeia reboot stuff.. they haven't shown off much but there is a website and it looks like they're using a similar dice system to Warcrow...?

image0.jpg image1.jpg image2.jpg
#

Apparently there was some stuff at interplanetario but I can't find a thing..

#

For people who did play Aristeia, how familiar does this look?

modern snow
compact leaf
#

Oookay, so it's the other way around

#

Interesting...

modern snow
#

nothing from these stands out as "revised edition" apart from the art style 🤔

compact leaf
#

It's still hexes and teams of lil guys

twin mountain
echo marten
#

Christ

sand sonnet
#

Well shit.

compact leaf
#

Hhh..
:(

fallen rune
#

Glad they’ve got an attorney

modern snow
#

😢

twin mountain
twin mountain
#

I love the way @modern snow uses dice in mobile arms. Some weapons roll lots of dice but have a low damage stat (successes totalling enemy defense convert into small hits), some weapons don't roll that many dice but if they do match enemy defense it's a huge chunk off their health pool

#

Obviously this helps sell attrition based gunfire vs hitting someone with a railgun or something - you get reliable vs amortized chunky dps

#

But also dice generate surge symbols

#

So the high speed machine gun weapons generate more surges for you to spend on all your special abilities

#

Like if you want to jet strafe mid attack to get a better angle, it's way better to use your rifle than your cannon

#

Very clever

sand sonnet
#

It's a great system. I need to play more Mobile Arms. Probably means I need to run a demo day at one of the local shops.

twin mountain
twin mountain
potent wyvern
#

@distant monolith

autumn ingot
#

I am super excited for Heavy Gear 3

supple shale
#

hooting and hollering rn for Heavy Gear 3

sudden halo
#

im not holding my breath but im tentatively very excited

#

if they get it right, even marginally i'll be super stoked

distant monolith
#

Oh yeah, posted that in vidwogame yestwrday

left moss
#

for my fedcom enjoyers

image.png
twin mountain
stable pelican
velvet badge
#

Damn, starting to think I've been sleeping on flashpoint

tawny sandal
sand cloak
#

Marines next

#

Marines next

#

Marines next

#

Please! PUT SOME UNSC CRAYON EATERS IN THERE!!!!

sudden halo
#

Flashpoint is very fun. It's the perfect weight to drag a non wargamer into a match

tawny sandal
#

Yeah I’m honestly much more interested in playing with the ODST and marines

sand cloak
#

So am I

#

Also, got two questions for the thread.

#

Anybody know any manufacturers or websites that sell modernish minis?

#

And does anyone know what are good websites to get general hobby stuff on top of miniatures?

autumn sun
#

What kind of general hobby stuff are you looking for?

sudden halo
tawny sandal
#

Also how modern

#

Like, ultramodern, late Cold War?

supple shale
#

Oh hell yeah let’s talk about ultramoderns

sand cloak
#

And I'm looking from ultra to coldwar

sand cloak
supple shale
#

Empress Miniatures, very fine scale (ie. not heroic proportions), plenty of Cold War to present day

#

Eureka, eclectic selection, more heroic sculpts

autumn sun
#

Very mix-and-match with it too.

supple shale
#

Spectre, operators operating operationally

signal orbit
#

Anvil is fantastic, I love them

autumn sun
#

Same. Wish they still sold the double-barrel shotguns.

tawny sandal
#

Was about to bring up Specter yeah

#

Also apparently they’re doing CoC minis now

#

Wait and have a Lovecraft inspired expansion to Specter Ops???

supple shale
#

Like those short movies folks make about that kind of thing, those blew up a year or two ago

#

Uhhhh

#

Dudes in GPNVG-18s getting blair witched

#

Maybe an SCP thing?

tawny sandal
#

It was SCP yeah

#

OVERLORD

#

Also they have a new version of the Spectre ruleset apparently, though I’ve yet to receive my copy (they say they’re sending PDFs to everyone who bought the original)

#

Which I hope smooths out some of the various unclear rules, editing issues, and oversights in the initial version

#

But I’m a bit interested in how turning it into Delta Green: The Miniatures Game will work

#

If I don’t get something from them soon I’ll probably email them to ask what’s the holdup

#

I like the idea Spectre is going for but the implementation seems rather clunky (and with editing oversights), hope they managed to smooth it some

autumn sun
# sand cloak The usual. Brushes, nippers, mixing balls, empty droppers.

Brushes:

  • Hobby-brand ones are usually much more expensive compared to anywhere else, so go to a crafts store like Michaels (or Blick for online) and grab some there. A no.1 sized brush will do most of the detail work you need. Keep a bunch of cheap brushes around, like those multi-packs, for more harsh painting. Always try and get away with the largest brush you can when painting.
  • Personally I use relatively cheap ones because I know myself, shit'll go bad on me. Pro painters use sable brushes with natural hairs and they're expensive, but I generally don't bother.
  • That said, brush soap helps extend the life of a brush considerably. The Masters brand is what I use.
    Mixing balls:
  • Go for glass jewelry beads. Avoid metal ones like ball bearings because they can rust inside the paint, unless it says pewter somewhere on the packet. Heavier stuff like amethyst can work but I personally worry it'll shatter or something.
    Droppers:
  • I just go with Amazon. 20ml ones are what you'll want to go for, as that fits GW and P3 paint. Stuff like Vallejo is already in 18ml bottles. Anything bigger I'll go for 30ml bottles, and that's for stuff like GW washes or custom paint mixes I know I'll need a lot of.
#

Availability for any of these depends on where you live and what you have available locally.

sand cloak
#

I see

#

Thank you for these insights

autumn sun
#

Also, clippers: whatever works, honestly? I use a pair of heavy duty wire cutters that I've had for over 20 years now and they do the job just fine. A pair of small ones that are more flush is good for detail snipping for sprues.

umbral prawn
#

I'd expect you to be able to find flush cutters at any hardware store

autumn sun
#

Yeah.

#

Very serious modelers (namely Gunpla) drop cash on the GodHand nippers but it seems like overkill at that price point.

sand cloak
#

It is

sand sonnet
#

They're nice though

modern snow
#

I tend to be a bit standoffish about (ultra)moderns due to the certain... uh... community that tends to congeal around them but Steve's a good dude

tawny sandal
#

Unfortunately I’ve just read it, not played it

#

And not the new revision either

sudden halo
# sand cloak 25 to 28

Sorry, most of my modern interest has been in 15mm or smaller. Everyone has covered basically what I know of.

sudden halo
modern snow
tawny sandal
#

When I get a copy of the new version I can at a minimum give my thoughts from a rules read-through

#

Also for other moderns I’d mention there’s also Fistful of TOWs and now Down Range (which I’m mildly obsessed with currently)

#

That reminds me, been meaning to get a copy of FoT

#

If nothing else I’ll always love it’s rules for doing paradrops

#

(You drop slips of paper from a height determined by difficulty and skill of the unit, with option to represent wind by using a desk fan lmao)

compact leaf
#

Infinity friends, I think this means something

echo marten
#

...is that a return of some of the missing sectorials? That looks like the old scottish subfaction logo up in top left.

#

And I think top right was NCA?

supple shale
#

SAA

#

NCA is center right

compact leaf
echo marten
#

Right. For some reason I thought it was NCA due to the Chi-Rho symbol.

compact leaf
#

We did also get to see the new 4th CA sectorial

#

Which is uhh

#

Combined army's take on humans

echo marten
#

...why does SAA use the Chi-Rho?

#

You'd think the papal stuff would use a Christogram that blatant, not Shock Army of Acontecimento.

supple shale
#

They are very Catholic as well, I suppose

#

Knights of Montesa and all

echo marten
#

I guess? NCA always struck me as more that, being the guys with extra Swiss Guard etc (That and it's just a generally better logo than the Generic-Ass Cross one)

#

Gunna be nice to see the Scottish back. They had a lot of units I really liked.

modern snow
compact leaf
#

at least their models are mostly still in the game

echo marten
#

Cries Frenchly

modern snow
echo marten
#

NCA making a return gives me the hope we might see another Australian Unit besides the Bolts. More Oceania in PanOceania!

#

'We added the SASR. They're Impetuous Stealth Troops who get Shock on all their weapons because they use their powers of Maximum Bastard to make the bullets hurt more.'

modern snow
#

watching the seminar, it looks like the discontinued sectorials are coming back because they needed to shrink the sample size of profiles for balance at launch. now that the edition's been out for a bit, they feel more confident that they can reintroduce these new sectorials

native portal
echo marten
#

...annoyingly despite my joking, you could likely do up the SASR really well for NCA considering NCA were some Real Bastards who loved fucking with the enemy. Versatile but not super expensive sneaky troop. Give them choices of like Camouflage, forward deployment decoys or Impersonation (IMP-2) depending on loadout. SMGs, Mines and access to some of the more 'You're an asshole' weapons like toxin weapons or killer hacking devices.

The only real issue is that Impetuous automatically prevent usage of effects that change your state.

#

They're not exactly a Hassassin but you're also not paying Hassassin prices.

#

I have unfortunately started going 'Now what would I add as Aussie Units for NCA?' XD

tepid steeple
#

you can do frenzy

echo marten
#

Frenzy wouldn't be bad but also isn't quite the vibe the SASR have but yeah, it's likely 'close enough'. XD

tepid steeple
#

I guess you could also

#

like

#

make them seed soldiers

#

who impetuous after transforming

#

idk if that works

#

janky

echo marten
#

Yeah, a bit. I'm also not a spanish game developer so I should stop pondering what I'd add to NCA for more aussie stuff. XD

tepid steeple
#

the problem with mrrf coming back is its one less barrier to spending £50 a model on oop stuff :(

#

but also I really feel for ppl who sold armies etc

#

just for it to be a uturn

compact leaf
#

Either way, this is probably the scenario that leaves the most people satisfied

#

But uh
Would've been very nice if they were clearer about the plans beforehand-

compact leaf
#

Oookay

#

Gencon infinity time

#

Aaaand that is all

#

Ooh and uh

20250802_120602.jpg
modern snow
compact leaf
#

I give you: the cheapest regular order in the game

echo marten
# compact leaf

No ALEPH

What, I can't have the Rabbit Teamup with our favourite ALEPH sniper? XD

modern snow
modern snow
compact leaf
#

So uh

#

:/

modern snow
#

oh I'm thinking of the CA ones

#

imetrons?

compact leaf
#

And can gain a lethal weapon via booty

modern snow
#

are they still 4 pts?

compact leaf
#

As netrods

#

6 pts

modern snow
#

huh

modern snow
echo marten
#

...wait, how is that cheaper than a netrod? Netrods are not exactly giving you much besides the order.

modern snow
#

(I play morats, we don't get those lol)

compact leaf
# modern snow huh

If it's worth anything too, the netrod and imetron are completely the same in terms of profile

#

So
It makes sense they cost the exact same

compact leaf
#

Helluva tournament pack model

echo marten
# compact leaf

I feel a bit of two minds here. The Ironsides look great and the Steeljaws are fun but I'm really not sold on the Harbingers. They basicly just look like Chaos Marine Myrmidons. XD

modern snow
#

Combat Jump, Religious, and Warhorse I guess?

modern snow
compact leaf
#

But y'know

#

They can probably actually shoot things

#

and they gave them all zappers

#

It's probably gonna be another very good line infantry

modern snow
compact leaf
#

Religious is a discount

modern snow
#

hrmmmm

compact leaf
#

This lady is just absurdly cheap for what she can do, really

echo marten
#

I'm gunna fold this under 'powercreep, she'll likely go up a point or two before long'. XD

compact leaf
#

She should be irregular for that cost, at least

#

Infinity is usually pretty good about power creep, at least

modern snow
#

lack of an actual weapon helps her cost a ton.

#

sure, you can get one via booty, but it's no guarantee

echo marten
#

Oh yeah but well...the comparison is netrods, which are not exactly running with a surplus of guns. XD

modern snow
#

the +1B EM grenades is NUTS though

modern snow
compact leaf
modern snow
#

I do remember imetrons going up alongside the Avatar and Taigha Creatures in n4, or am I misremembering?

compact leaf
compact leaf
modern snow
modern snow
#

anyway

#

Sacha gud

#

bunnygirl will be slammed in every kestrel/shinden/Torchlight/IA list I make lol

compact leaf
#

I think her closest point of comparison should probably be Jackals here

#

And Jackals are already exceptional

#

and can become regular

#

So

echo marten
#

I mean, Netrods don't get much from warhorse due to their lack of 'doing things' but I guess they technically have it. XD

compact leaf
#

Warhorse makes losing your lieutenant less harsh

modern snow
compact leaf
#

We're gonna dump some warcrow stuff now if that's okay-
They haven't shown us the nice pretty ones yet though sadly :(

echo marten
#

Sure but I'd rather have +1B EMP grenades and 'Legs' than it. XD

compact leaf
#

And this is the tournament pack guy

PXL_20250802_152940602.jpg
echo marten
# compact leaf

It took me a moment realize the guardians were not skeletons, just guys who've invented cop balaclavas a few centuries early.

compact leaf
#

Yeah they're just like that-

#

They guard ancient elf graves from the big empire that fell

#

A big part of Feudom's identity is building on the ruins of that civilization

echo marten
echo marten
# compact leaf

I'm actually not 100% parsing Ludo's aura ability. Mostly - Where they've placed the 'max 3' makes it read as if you're limited to 3 on the 'start of game/start of activation' ones, rather than 3 regardless of how you get them.

#

But I think they intended her to only be able to have 3 aura total?

sudden halo
compact leaf
#

Shhh, Whiteco is here for you

compact leaf
#

If things are confusing or unbalanced, it's because she's not meant for competitive play

tepid steeple
#

she just can only bank 3 aura

#

no aura farming

twin mountain
#

Did they release an updated warcrow rulebook yet?

compact leaf
#

Mostly to add the new keywords at the same time most people are getting the models

compact leaf
# compact leaf

News about this crazy lady
She is in fact supposed to be irregular -

modern snow
modern snow
compact leaf
compact leaf
#

Especially if you can link her

#

3 dice EM grenades is crazy for any hackables that try to push you

#

(assuming you get a duo bonus)

modern snow
#

since FT Master would convert to regular

compact leaf
modern snow
compact leaf
#

Extremely.

modern snow
compact leaf
#

Unless they've changed something, I remember the original wording was that the ones with the keyword in brackets were the only things turned regular

modern snow
compact leaf
#

Mmm
Guess they changed it

modern snow
#

the only specific thing stated in FT master is that the fireteam is dependent on the master. if they die, the fireteam is cancelled and cannot otherwise be formed

#

Kestrel can slot a beastmaster in a Jackal link for example, and the beastmaster would be regular

compact leaf
#

That is how that would work with the current rules, yes :)

#

We do wonder when that change happened though..

#

Probably when the N5 wiki launched

modern snow
modern snow
#

they did a lot of cleanup between the edition launch and the wiki launch

compact leaf
#

There's still more to do though..

#

Especially with returning factions

modern snow
#

oh for sure 😵‍💫

compact leaf
#

We're just hoping there's going to be a little update for Crane agents.. please..

modern snow
compact leaf
#

Senkus and Celestials are so overshadowed by Fennecs..

#

Senku are definitely the worst of the bunch though

#

Like nobody takes them ever

modern snow
compact leaf
#

Mhm mhm

modern snow
#

hide her as a Senku, all of a sudden you Have a ~21pt hole in your list that's unaccounted for

compact leaf
#

Issue is that now you've spent points on Shura for a meme..

#

Shura also needs a little something more

modern snow
#

yeah true

tepid steeple
compact leaf
#

Ah yeah that'd make sense

#

I'm not aware of very much that can actually make use of that either..

#

I guess wildcarding stuff would do it

#

And the Kuang shi?

tepid steeple
#

I'm tempted to try it with taskmasters

#

I mean it's kinda incidental, the main reason I'm doing it is strategic deploy and that heavy gunfighter, but it could be neat

#

with riot grrls I mean

#

I don't think it'd be bad tbh, I like my fire teams to be in like, full coherency if possible and an extra 2" could be really big I think

#

just cause it gives more options for deployment

#

like how even a basic forward deploy of like 4" can actually result in you being much further ahead depending on the terrain layout, if there's no/limited spaces to stage at the front of your deployment

#

maybe patsy garnet with orcs in vPanO too? especially if you have joan anyway

modern snow
#

on another note I took another look at QK after Robert Shepard's most recent battle report and it actually looks surprisingly scrumptous

#

Zaybek, a sleeper vehicle?

tepid steeple
#

I think the zaybek is gonna be pretty awesome

#

Idk just albedo is so good

#

And smoke

#

They also have a hacking device plus now in laxmee

#

Who brings fairy dust as well

#

I guess access to white noise lowers albedo stonks a little

#

Druze hackers are pretty solid for xvisor linked pitchers and warhorse

modern snow
# tepid steeple And smoke

yeah smoke on a motorcycle is already pretty dope, adding it to a Jet-Propulsion model looks like absolute gas

#

Hot take though: I think Jet-Propulsion models should've maintained the early N5 super jump rules.

tepid steeple
#

The hafza play seems really fun alongside bazouks. Ive been using the burkut in rtf and its soliiid

echo marten
#

Have we heard anything about the concept for the third Aleph subfaction?

modern snow
tepid steeple
#

And then like azra’il has maybe the scariest gun in the game

modern snow
echo marten
#

Bother. At this point I'm wondering if they plan to just entirely scrap ALEPH as a faction. It's lost units, gained none, is still at 2 sectorials, it doesn't show up in sectorials it used to...

modern snow
tepid steeple
#

If theyre in a battle pack then it wont be too soon

#

Like

#

After sandtrap

modern snow
#

Carlos mentioned October for Next Wave, so it seems like CB is willing to introduce more army battle packs more often.

tepid steeple
#

I mean like an operation box

#

As one team

#

Next wave is gonna be an action pack I think

modern snow
#

100%

echo marten
#

At this point I think JSA manages to have more than ALEPH does and they're a super new faction. XD

modern snow
#

they already indicated so

modern snow
tepid steeple
#

Jsa isnt very lorge

modern snow
#

VJSA is such a non-faction and Shinden is struggling

#

Shinden very much feels like starmada did when they launched. Anemic and a little half-baked

tepid steeple
#

Like sp lost units and is still bigger than jsa I think

modern snow
#

like two half-sectorials forced to be roommates

tepid steeple
#

I think its gonna end up being the kinda thing that when stuff comes out in a linear sequence someone is always gonna be last

echo marten
#

Just counted. ALEPH has 39 units, JSA has 44 (Counting units for each faction that also works for other factions like Maximus).

modern snow
#

I genuinely think aleph will get something large and new, just not in the next 365 days

echo marten
#

I dunno, sorry. I'm just kinda in a bit of a down place as I feel like ALEPH's identity gets kinda screwed up by O-12 and on a mechanical front they've not had support for ages/CA stole a lot of my models.

modern snow
#

Supportware focus, premiere hacking, posthumans, etc

echo marten
#

For a while ALEPH was all about No Wound Incapacitation, Huge Characters, Nanopulsars and just 'Hey, come on. Have a face to face roll with me, I promise I won't kick your ass' with how so many of their starting models were NWI and the myrmidons had near universal -6 mods to be shot but that's not really as much of a unique thing any more/a lot of their units don't have such.

#

And their thematic role as 'the really high tech human faction' kinda got supplanted by O-12 getting stuff like Plasma.

modern snow
#

in lore it sorta makes sense though, but mechanically I 100% get your point

#

I'm still rooting for the next Aleph faction to be really REM focused. we got a little bit of it in Torchlight with RemDrivers at the end of N4, but they basically removed the concept in n5 and I feel like it was squandered potential for something neat

echo marten
#

I always enjoyed ALEPH's 'why won't this fucker die' aspect.

modern snow
#

Remdrivers and voltronned REMs would be a ton of fun

#

and the fact that REMs have two layers of unconsciousness would play into the resiliency fantasy a lot

echo marten
#

'Hello, I am a Sophotech or Deva, I might not actually be a HI but I'll take that reaction fire and keep going' was a lot of what got me into ALEPH. XD

tepid steeple
#

Sp and bakunin reverends are still really the only mim-6 impetuous/frenzy factions

#

What used to be optical disruptor

#

I mean there is dumb stuff like the hatamoto but like

#

Thats just a single guy

modern snow
#

I really enjoy that the optical mods turned into much more of a rock-paper-scissors affair in N5

echo marten
modern snow
echo marten
#

So you've got 'hey, I'm a biker that can turn into a dude and a rem'

tepid steeple
#

Impetuous actually being the downside its meant to be and is negatively costed for is cool 😋

#

I think k2 auxiliars should be out before sectorial 3

modern snow
#

I'll stand by the fact that Torchlight introduced a secret Aleph Sub-sectorial at the end of N4. You had:

  • Agnes Ferrera (REMDriver)
  • RemDriver (Hacker, important)
  • RoadBots
  • Stormbots
  • Moonrakers
  • EVO Fuzzbots
  • TacAware Oko Copperbots

It was such an ugly REM- Focused selection and a ton of fun to throw downrange

tepid steeple
#

And penthesilea would be cool 🥺

trail fulcrum
#

ODST?

sand sonnet
#

I think I still have that LE Biker Penny somewhere now that you mention her.

#

Cool model.

echo marten
#

The true crime of K2 auxilars is their ammo is nowhere near as much an upgrade on K1 ammo as you'd assume 😛

#

(I know that's not where the K2 in the name comes from)

tepid steeple
#

For some reason bootleg penny is still sold

#

But regular penny oop

#

I managed to get a regular one off ebay though 😋

modern snow
sand sonnet
modern snow
#

very sad that we're going another CA sectorial without Sygmaa representation though 😦

tepid steeple
echo marten
#

I'd be really intrigued to see them play a bit weirder with Remdriver. The rule feels like it could do some odder things that it doesn't currently do in the models that have it.

sand sonnet
#

I think this is one of my frustrations with Infinity sometimes is models can be very selectively available.

tepid steeple
#

100%

#

Even relatively new stuff

ocean holly
#

See, this is where I'm planning a wargame sans minis

#

Your entire faction is punch board, in a box with dice, cards, and rules

sand sonnet
#

It appeals to some folks but I like having minis.

#

GMT built a whole business on card chit games pretty much.

ocean holly
#

I'm also planning platoon level units, so

tawny sandal
#

As in, each unit is a platoon or a number of units up to the size of a platoon?

ocean holly
echo marten
# modern snow Remdrivers and voltronned REMs would be a ton of fun

Something that would be fun considering ALEPH is super lean on it right now and it would fit the 'AI linked into everything' idea/a more machine focused sectorial? Another TAG and maybe a TAGCom guy.

Gaibhne, Forgemaster
Engineer + Either REMDriver or TAGCom depending on loadout.

Or such.

modern snow
#

yeah yeah yeah!

ocean holly
modern snow
#

I'd love to see CB bring back the merc RemDriver and make an aleph faction with a few really oddball ones

ocean holly
echo marten
#

I wonder if they'd do another mythology if they did another ALEPH subfaction.

#

As right now we've got one Greek and one Hindu-based one.

tawny sandal
ocean holly
#

Ah, fair

tawny sandal
#

But that’s definitely the size where chits or markers are much more reasonable, since at that level of scale and abstraction cover doesn’t matter beyond “is there a hill in the way”

clear shadow
#

Sorry for the somewhat necro

tawny sandal
#

However, lil dudes just make me happy

ocean holly
#

Yeah, I know

#

This is intended to be somewhat cheap, as well

modern snow
#

all we know is that ~it's happening~

clear shadow
#

Ooooooooooooooo

modern snow
#

looked into the studio though and their track record is mainly small mobile games?

clear shadow
#

That is very exciting

#

Ah

#

Slightly less so but hopefully it's good

modern snow
#

This looks like a small studio getting their big break. I'll be rooting for them and I hope the game succeeds

clear shadow
#

Yeah definitely

modern snow
clear shadow
#

Fair point

twin mountain
#

@modern snow @stray breach random game design thought: I've been thinking about push your luck randomization systems where you integrate a hit chance and a damage roll into the same mechanic, with players being able to try and push for higher numbers at risk of going bust

#

There are a lot of ways to do this but I've been doing some statistical exploration of Flip 7 style decks and they're very... Interesting

#

Imagine a deck of 20 cards like this:

1 1
2 2 2
3 3 3 3
4 4 4 4 4
5 5 5 5 5 5
#

You draw from the deck until you decide to stop. If you ever draw a duplicate of a card you already drew, you bust and fail. If you stop you sum all your numbers up

#

It's kind of a roll from 1 to 15, though getting to 15 is quite hard, it's pretty bell curve-y

#

Each time you draw a card that card tells you how many fails are in the deck

#

So you draw a 1? There's one fail in the 19 card deck

modern snow
twin mountain
#

Draw a 5? Now you have 6 failures across 18 cards

stray breach
twin mountain
#

Yeah it's interesting

stray breach
#

The smaller numbers are “safer” since there’s fewer duplicates to risk

twin mountain
#

There are some interesting ways to encode higher damage or higher accuracy

#

For example you could burn a few cards from the deck faceup in advance of drawing, based on your attack stats

modern snow
stray breach
#

Also, you get the potential dimension of weighing the odds of duplicates on the specific numbers you have vs pulling for the 3 more damage you need to top past their health bar

#

Since the number is known to you

twin mountain
#

Yeah

#

There's a lot of stuff you can do with this

stray breach
#

You can do “safe” numbers where there’s only one of them, for precision damage type feels

twin mountain
#

Like maybe different numbers do different things for different characters

#

Or like maybe a specific character has a crit effect where they only bust on the 3rd 5 they draw

#

So their first is totally free

stray breach
#

Oh, rather than modifying the deck, character modifiers to the base deck, yeah

#

That’s got potential

twin mountain
#

Like you can just. Do a lot of weird stuff with this. But ultimately yeah it's a way to let players very consistently do small numbers or reach for something crazy

#

Like you get a special effect if you can draw a run of 3 cards

#

And your stats let you see some cards you can never draw

#

Etc etc

stray breach
#

Recoil weapon that lets you discard a duplicate but it deals that damage to yourself

twin mountain
#

Each card can have extra symbols on it too

stray breach
#

Which, of course, the most likely of that is a 5 hit

twin mountain
#

That do more stuff

stray breach
twin mountain
#

The reason I constructed this sample deck is that it has a very specific mathematical property where your failure chance is directly proportional to your current number

modern snow
# twin mountain Yeah

if we're talking about a deck representing a single character, you could even have damage dealt to the character represented as damage cards that get shuffled into their deck. A character's health is not how much damage they can take, rather it's how many damage cards they can reveal in a single flip. If they reveal a number equal to their health, they're downed for the battle (or slain, depending on how doom-n-gloom you wanna be)

twin mountain
#

Oh I see what you're saying

#

That's definitely cute but that's a fully automatic procedure afaik, which is fine - I'm just trying to focus on procedures where you're making decisions at each flip

#

Though yeah that's an easy way of generating tension, it's a death check with a lot of drama

#

Anyway I just wanted to think out loud for a bit about this. There's some juice here I may want to poke at in the future

#

We can gussy it up too

#

Pile of runes in a bag

stray breach
#

There’s some good potential, yeah

twin mountain
#

Draw your fate

modern snow
twin mountain
#

And each rune tells you how many other runes are doom for you

modern snow
#

especially if you make it a 3d-printed prototype, you can get some nice chunky coins

stray breach
#

Even just a “draw two pick one” power lets you get like a precise critical shot with massively increased damage potential

twin mountain
#

But what the runes do for you? Depends on your check

#

Depends on your tools and stats

twin mountain
modern snow
#

the tactile feel would be great

twin mountain
#

Imagine if your enemy can force you to draw

#

When you stop the enemy berserker can force you to draw one more

#

So they're eating more damage but also pushing you to overcommit

#

Like you can just put a lot of drama into mechanics around each draw

#

Make it juicy and interactive

modern snow
twin mountain
#

Oh yeah if we do it bag pull style you can absolutely put curse tokens in the bag

modern snow
#

all the usual ones. Freeze, draw X, etc

sand cloak
#

Hold on. This sounds like combat UNO.

#

I love this

twin mountain
#

Feel free to steal it

modern snow
# twin mountain Oh yeah if we do it bag pull style you can absolutely put curse tokens in the ba...

to put it back in the context of a fantasy dungeon crawl, you could have character building be as simple as a combination of:

  • base number pool (1,1,2,2,2,3,3,3,3, etc)
  • A set of glyphs specific to your class (these can all be the same, or sub-glyphs depending on the class in question
    drawing a glyph triggers a character ability, but drawing two or three of those glyphs triggers a much stronger version of that ability instead
sand cloak
twin mountain
#

But instead it's iterative push your luck

#

So each new pull modifies what you accomplish but pulls you closer to dramatic failure

#

Surge symbols, range modifiers, etc etc

modern snow
twin mountain
#

Yeah that's the key to push your luck really

#

The risk has to rise at a complex curve compared to the reward

#

Early on you're definitely getting more reward than risk

#

But later it's more risk than reward

#

And where the breakpoint is depends on the player and the tactical situation

#

And that generates good drama

#

I wanna replace the sense of mechanical procedure with tension and hubris

#

I mean that's kinda why most designers try to make the random moment as quick as possible

#

So you go from choosing your action -> result asap

#

Anyway bedtime for me zzz

sand cloak
#

This is honestly crazy good to read. Good night!

twin mountain
#

Oh my God I'm an idiot

#

Meant to post this in #game-design-discussion

#

@fast glade you can laugh at me

fast glade
#

lmao

twin mountain
#

Sorry didn't mean to flood the wargame thread

#

I'm very sleepy

modern snow
twin mountain
#

ZZZZ

fast glade
sand cloak
stray breach
twin mountain
#

I mean I am but it's sorta more generic than that zzz

trail fulcrum
#

Been having thought about push your luck bag lisrs

sudden halo
#

Push your luck is always a good time.

#

My only concern with using a system like the one mentioned for combat resolution is the potential for things to take a long time, since it's potentially a lot of instances of absorbing information and coming to a decision.

#

I have been reading Warmaster, the old GW 10mm mass battle fantasy game, and it has a push your luck mechanic for movement, flavor wise representing the difficulties of medieval command and control.

#

Basically you try to roll under your command score on 2d6 to give orders with mods for the commander, range, etc. you can attempt to order the same unit multiple times at a -1 each time. If you fail the order doesn't happen and that commander can't issue any more orders that turn. If your general fails your orders phase ends.

#

Since it's a phased game, thing only shoot or fight once, as expected, but maneuver is all about how you position commanders and pushing your luck. It seems really neat and I wanna try it out soon to see how it plays in practice.

native portal
#

It works great in practice with the caveat that if your dice hate you, you WILL get rolled and it WILL suck

tawny sandal
#

Augh I figured out why I didn’t get sent the new version of Spectre Operations: I bought the book via BSS rather than direct from Spectre Miniatures videogames

#

I don’t know if I could show them a receipt and get the promised new version or if it’s only for people who bought direct from them

#

I’d expect probably only if you got it direct

#

Also I discovered during looking around that Black Site apparently has a titanic TTRPG now? They seem to like doing weird lil small games

next pilot
#

apparently catalyst is making a mha tabletop game which feels like a weird franchise to make a wargame for? I'll admit I'm not a mha fan, or even watcher, so it doesn't resonate. The minis they've shown look meh too, some akwards poses

orchid leafBOT
#

Well like it would not eb the first superheros wargame, or even the first one by a compony making battle tech TBH

#

but like big team throwdowns wiht like multipull squads all acting togeather agenst squads of villans is not that uncommon a thing in MHA

sand cloak
#

Yeah, that's like classic superhero comic trope

autumn sun
sand cloak
#

Not really that much you can do with an invisible hero.