Indie+Alternative Wargaming

[lean pilot]

I'd give it a go

[sly laurel]

I think I’ll probably be combining my Skitarii and Cities of Sigmar for Trench Crusade

The asthetics don’t clash and it would be rad as hell

[autumn sun]

https://fixupx.com/VoiceQuills/status/1794783488119632079

[supple shale]

25MAR24: “Local Idiot Doesn’t Need Yet Another 28mm Skirmish Project”

29MAY24: Local idiot caught red-handed downloading the BLKOUT rules and building out a Trench Crusade squad on the Anvil Industries store

[sleek trail]

get got

[velvet badge]

Totally not looking at printing a heretic legions warband, no siree, totally not hunting for a cool artillery witch mini

[twin mountain]

https://www.boardgamequest.com/horizon-wars-zero-dark-review/ solo infinity

Seems good

[fallen rune]

interesting

[sudden halo]

It looks pretty cool. I haven't sprung for it. I've seen the creator around here and there online in wargames spaces and he seems decent too, but my interactions have been very limited.

[trail fulcrum]

Spider friends

Are fun

And very move heavy

[supple shale]

All spiders are friends, with the right attitude

[trail fulcrum]

It's my jokey nickname for web warriors

🙂

[supple shale]

Crisis Protocol or?

[trail fulcrum]

Crisis protocol

Yeee

[supple shale]

I was gonna say I don’t know nothin about it but that Agis Neugenbauer fux w/ it,

But I checked and he plays the chibi one

Marvel United

[next pilot]

ooh nice, you got a game going?

I need to finish up mine, although I have quite the ecclectic collection that doesn't fit nicely into any faction

[next pilot]

what roster were you running?

[lean pilot]

Is Marvel United good? I never heard of it and now I seem to hear a lot about it from active players

[compact leaf]

No idea about marvel United, but crisis protocol is pretty big in some places

So I have to assume it's got something good going on

[lean pilot]

both seem popular but idk if its just marvel effect

[compact leaf]

That may be part of it

[orchid leaf]

The only Marvle RPG we know is good is the old Marvle Claic RP/FASERIP but that'smostaly do to how it dose not try to balince thigns, thus keeping them in line wiht the comics. like there is no sane balince systemt hat would have Spiderman and Doc Strange at the same Power Level, but Spiderman is Doc Stranges understudy and has taken out Dread Dormomu

Sees the threed namefuck

[trail fulcrum]

Spider-man (peter), Spider-man (miles), Ghost Spider, Venom, Black Cat

[next pilot]

nice, I have daredevil (shadowland), elektra, magik, colossus, mysterio and carnage in various states of incompletion

I'd probably go either midnight sons or defenders for my main faction though

I do wonder why black cat is even in sons, she's never been part of the two teams when she was released nor tied to blade and the horror side of the marvel universe

[trail fulcrum]

I guess ties to Spider-Man?

Iirc the spiders are kinda suns adjacent

[sand sonnet]

Today in sentances I did not expect to read: https://steamforged.com/blogs/brands/sfg-acquires-iron-kingdoms

https://home.privateerpress.com/2024/06/03/privateer-press-the-next-phase/

[sleek trail]

This is insane to me

Privateer was like. Built on warmachine and hordes, no?

[sand sonnet]

Iron Kingdoms started as their in house D&D game and became a 3.5 book then a whole minis game.

For 25 years it's been their whole baby, but now it's all under Steamforge.

[sleek trail]

Its wild that its not a whole company acquisition or a partnership

[sand sonnet]

I mean it looks like a whole company acquistion.

Privateer's statement is that they're still developing Warmachine, just that Steamforge is handling the business end.

So some kind of subsidary aquisition I would assume.

[sleek trail]

But why wouldnt they just say that

And also they make monpoc

Thats not being bought

[sand sonnet]

That's because it's tied up with Mythic.

Who are a kickstarter scam dumpsterfire.

[autumn sun]

To be clear: it started as 5 adventures, then came the miniatures (2003), and then the 3.5 book a year later (2004).

[sand sonnet]

Sure.

There are some steps skipped in the quick summary.

Curious to see how it plays out.

I don't have a lot of love for Steamforged as a business though.

[autumn sun]

It is very funny that Guild Ball was born from wanting a better Warmahordes and now it's coming home to roost.

[sand sonnet]

Yeah a little shocked Wilson agreed to this, but I assume Steamforged provided many dollars.

[autumn sun]

That and maybe someone actually talked a little sense into Wilson.

[sand sonnet]

I would assume Sherry forced him to from a numbers perspective.

[sand sonnet]

Looks like from the AMA on Reddit that it is just the IPs that were acquired that PP is still independant, and that they will be working together on all the IK stuff for a while: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warmachine/comments/1d786a1/ama_hopefully_youve_seen_the_news_got_some/

[next pilot]

pp has been doing poorly, so tieing themselves with someone who has miniature making infrastructure makes sense, although given what happened to guild ball a lot of the copy paste corporate talk feels especially hollow

[twin mountain]

Damn yeah I loved steamforged until all their drama with abandoning guild ball

[trail fulcrum]

Did you know a game could be

too competetive

[sleek trail]

is that the excuse they used

[compact leaf]

Waissaaitiififn

Is this about the guild ball thing?

We never actually learned what happened

But that's

[orchid leaf]

At first i was going to make a joke about Diplomacy, but like wow that's actauly baffeling

[sand sonnet]

They literally sold the game to competitive Warmachine players as an alternative then turned around and shuttered it saying the community was too competitive.

[compact leaf]

:/

Eugh

That's real gross

[sleek trail]

its going to be very very hard for SFG to gain trust of people

with this

[sand sonnet]

There’s a reason the Warmachine community is pretty divided on it.

[next pilot]

Tri chi won the malifaux global event

[autumn sun]

I don't even play Tri-chi and I'm glad, we could not be denied that hawaiian shirt.

[sleek trail]

https://steamforged.com/blogs/brands/iron-kingdoms-manifesto-part1

[sand sonnet]

Actual plastic warmachine models is cool.

Privateer never really got that right.

[autumn sun]

They went with the inexpensive "restic"/PVC since that could use much the same molds as pewter.

Which, y'know fine enough but it has quality issues. Reaper is one of the few companies that has invested enough in it to get it right and even then they have like 3 different versions of Bones.

[haughty bobcat]

I just finished my turnip28 army and it now dons on me no one else in my gaming group has even heard of it

[sand sonnet]

Sounds like they're about to.

[sleek trail]

Need to make a second turnip army so you can run demo games

[lean pilot]

turnip is cool

i have zero ideas for it

[sleek trail]

i got a printer now so i might make a summer turnip army

the body of the scuttlers fits just about perfectly on the print bed

[twin mountain]

https://www.wargamer.com/junk-runners-papercraft-mecha-warhammer-40k-alternative @native portal

[sand cloak]

_>

I'll be honest, there really should be more stuff like this.

[lean pilot]

this is awesome

[sand cloak]

Yeah, it's more awesome than Legos.

I will burn for my blasphemy I know

[lean pilot]

I might print this

when its out

i actually really enjoy papercraft so it'll be fun just to make them honestly

even if i get it professionally printed it won't cost me too much

to be clear I only say that because my computer is allergic to printers. I've tried at least three and two were brand new.

[sand cloak]

It sounds like your computer needs a bit of incense and Gregorian chanting.

[lean pilot]

I've legitimately done this

I even got someone to make me a Mechanicus seal for it, so it's blessed by the Omnissiah

[sand cloak]

...

Badass

[lean pilot]

You can do this too

People make purity seals on Etsy

3D prints also if you have a 3D printer (edit: clarified wording)

[sand cloak]

This is wild

[supple shale]

Way back when I used to make papercraft Chimeras for my Guard army because the real thing was too spendy

I took measurements off a loaner at the FLGS and drew a template in MS Word

it was Adequate

[hot comet]

I'm getting nostalgic for a happier time when they used to do this sort of thing officially

[autumn sun]

Peak terrain design, 10/10 no notes

[sleek trail]

theres a real issue out there nowadays imo where like

shits too nice

we need to go back to stuff being bad but affordable

[sand sonnet]

Mantic exists

[sleek trail]

i don't think i've met anyone irl who plays a mantic game

but indeed

[sand sonnet]

There were some WHFB refugee's playing their copy of the game for a while.

[autumn sun]

KoW is trucking along. My local scene has people interested but as I don't go to the LGS very often I'm not sure how much people play there.

https://figure.scale-model-kits.com/manufacturers/Caesar-Miniatures.html Now, if you want bad but dirt cheap then these are hard to beat.

40 zombies for $10 is a damn fine deal if all you need is stuff that's roughly to scale and a lot of it.

[autumn sun]

--oh right a friend of mine who is a big Skaven fan bought the box of ratmen from that company a couple years ago, hold on. Should have some real-world photos for scale.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/591429239211950081/691725826831679578/JPEG_20200323_151041.jpg?ex=66694a20&is=6667f8a0&hm=ddc7409dcc93dfff463b475f85ee973f950baa4fb21077ce59d128c7cecae246&

With GW models. They're smaller, comparatively, and the detail isn't as good. But also dirt cheap.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/591429239211950081/691726870705602610/JPEG_20200323_151327.jpg?ex=66694b19&is=6667f999&hm=2492e2550b336fa5201a0df1d229633b371288fdfc6a48ab4940c24e4056d4a8&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/591429239211950081/692469080816484443/20200325_161904.jpg?ex=66695b56&is=666809d6&hm=4c34fa8592783f0d268a28adfbb6ed7fb9110f33149808e8eaa02c3b40feca44&

Painted up and on a proper base and they look fine.

So in general there's still pleeeeeenty of cheap options out there if you don't mind a sacrifice in quality. And for a lot of people that's fine! I've met people who are perfectly okay with that because the price point can't be beat and they'd be for mass ranks of dirt-cheap dudes.

[sleek trail]

definitely

not saying it doesn't exist but its not what's presented to people

i am pro shitty papercraft terrain used to play on tables at your university

[autumn sun]

Oh same, haha.

When I started in 3rd ed 40k I had a loooooot of cheap cardboard ruined city terrain. None of it painted, but it got the job done.

[sleek trail]

on the other hand i am a massive hypocrite cause i know a guy who bought a 3d printed bootleg warhammer model, broke it, and then was too cheap to pay for superglue for like 3 months

and i kept haranguing him to pay for superglue

(he has now bough superglue but only because he ran out of regular glue and now hes only going to use superglue)

[autumn sun]

Glue is like...one of the cheapest things in the hobby, the hell.

[supple shale]

imho the real galaxy brain maneuver is to get really into a smaller scale than what you’re accustomed to so that even the premium stuff seems cheap until you acclimatize

[autumn sun]

Haha, true.

I'd always wanted to play Epic 40k but never got to and occasionally I'm like "y'know, 3rd party stuff IS very cheap..."

[supple shale]

In the chat with the Pico Armor Enjoyer like damn, that’s a lot of tanks

“Yeah all this cost thirty bucks and fits in a shoebox along with all my terrain”

[sand sonnet]

Yeah but then I jut buy more and don't save any money.

[sudden halo]

Yeah that's me looking at GHQ micro armor stuff. "oh I could write so many near future gritty sci-fi games for these!"

[supple shale]

Cf. my unmanaged 15mm problem

Literally just ordered a bunch of 15mm Ma.K stuff:

https://slave2gaming.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=87

[sleek trail]

The guys insane calculus is that buying hobby tools means he cant spend as much money on models

And he only likes models and playing the game

Not. Doing the hobby part

Which like. I kinda get. I guess

Wish he would actually do a project.

And not just consume models ad infinitum

But i was like that once

[supple shale]

Back in like 2006 when everybody was trying prepainted minis for their new wargames (Mongoose, Rackham, et al), people would ask “who is this for, who’s the market for these”

But that guy definitely exists

[native portal]

It's kinda me

I hate painting so bad

I just want to play the game

[supple shale]

Honestly I think the market segment is definitely there and it was a matter of the manufacturing processes not making the grade more than anything;

Battlefield Evolution minis looked like actual dogshit

AT43 was better imho (I have a real soft spot for that game mostly because I love Paolo Parente and Karl Kopinski’s art) but that wasn’t enough to keep Rackham in business

[fallen rune]

yeah mood that art was great

[tepid steeple]

there was this one tiny star wars game that used preprinted plasticard minis

[supple shale]

Like, plastic standees?

[tepid steeple]

uhh

idk how to explain it

it was like those little 'make a dinosaur' sets

[supple shale]

Ooooh like a sort of 3d puzzle type guy

[tepid steeple]

yess

they were absolutely tiny vehicles

and those mini d6s that are like 2mm

[supple shale]

I was thinking totally flat with just an image, like the cardstock gears that came with the old Heavy Gear modules

You folded them and taped the bottom

[trail fulcrum]

I kinda want a drafting based mech game with these 3d puzzles

Card sizes are all standard so you can measure in units

Disregard tapes

All we need is cards and dice

[supple shale]

snip snip and you got the whole gang

lil 3d puzzle mecha seem to occupy a sweet spot where the overheads would be more than cardstock standees but way less than “‘real minis’”,

Returning to “wargaming needs more products that are cheap and bad” which is a thesis I do kinda fuck w/

[trail fulcrum]

The idea was that you could just booster pack them

And make a drafting format our of it

Hahaah

[tepid steeple]

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/27970/star-wars-pocketmodel-tcg

found it!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructible_strategy_game wizkids did a few of them in 2000s

[supple shale]

those ships are Fuckin Huge lmao

[sand sonnet]

Pirates was a pretty decent ship battle game tbh.

You removed the masts of a ship as their wound count.

[supple shale]

I kinda love that as a mechanic tbqh

[next pilot]

cardboard is pretty cheap to make

nowadays those would be sold for like 50$ each regardless though

[native portal]

pain

but truth

[sand sonnet]

The ships were printed plasticard and were sold like card packs and had rarities.

So like you'd buy them like magic cards and hope you got a decent fleet.

[trail fulcrum]

Drafting drafting

Really want a drafting mech game now hahahaha

I cri

Only like this

Are being sold now hahaha

[compact leaf]

https://www.atomicmassgames.com/transmission/update-on-star-wars-x-wing-and-star-wars-armada/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR2iFT7_AlNNqPPkWprS4RrJ3FgzLODqsevWMoFsxaOE5af7prV3Cw3q7fc_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw

:(

[sand sonnet]

I mean it was pretty clear the games weren’t a priority, and sales for them hadn’t been doing well even before it was moved to AMG

[compact leaf]

Yeah
Still
It's rather sad :(

[sand sonnet]

End of an era for sure.

[autumn sun]

https://vxtwitter.com/PaintNI/status/1801275282776539463

[sudden sundial]

#Body goals

[supple shale]

that metachrist diet

[sand sonnet]

Anyone in here do historicals in the 10-15mm scale ranges?

[supple shale]

Infamous 15mm Cold War enjoyer here

[sand sonnet]

What rulesets or companies do you like?

[supple shale]

My favorite ruleset by far is No End in Sight, which works best for individually-based 15mm skirmish at the platoon scale

For minis, there are So Many options.

I really like Peter Pig, QRF, Skytrex, Oddzial Osmy, to name a few

Khurasan, Ground Zero, Slave2,

The 15mm market is huge tbh

[sand sonnet]

Yeah I started looking into it and immediately got lost. 😂

Honestly been digging the smaller scale models and was kinda curious about what else is out there.

[supple shale]

Current project is British I Corps versus 3rd Shock Army circa 1991

My area of interest is honestly super narrow compared to what’s out there,

15mm/1:100 is a great scale and there’s just so much of it

[forest charm]

as I don’t believe there’s a specific channel or thread for this, any Star Wars Legion players here?

I was wondering if anyone had any tips for starting a Republic army, preferably heavy infantry.

I’ve really been enjoying playing Legion Spec Ops (the skirmish game) and the Clones seem like a good way to play a more elite, coordinated fighting force.

I’ve been looking at the 501st box and it seems nice, but locks me into an ARC heavy list.

[trail fulcrum]

Yehooo

Oh hmmm

Oh eeer

Sadly all I have is Roger Roger play

Welcome to Republic infantry ball

Hahaha

I hate it so much (in a good way)

[supple shale]

Skytrex order came in yesterday

These casts are So Fuckin Good, small range but best 15mm vehicles around for my money

[supple shale]

Let’s fuckin gggggggooo

[haughty bobcat]

Oh those are really nice looking

[supple shale]

Really cannot rate Skytrex highly enough

Their resin is super nice to work with, minimal flash, no bubbles.

Really well-scaled, super detailed sculpts

Lots of oddities on offer in their Soviet range; have you ever needed an SNAR-10 “BIG FRED” counterbattery radar? Me neither

[sudden halo]

those 15mm?

[supple shale]

Yup

[haughty bobcat]

https://youtu.be/iVGaVqrVhF8?si=xDj9BKowpErRfgJx

Pretty excited bill is making a new skirmish game

“Skirm”

I liked his last ruleset

[haughty bobcat]

What are they for they look adorable

[supple shale]

15mm Ma.K suits from Slave2Gaming standing in as Soviet power armor of the Third World War for my ongoing Weird Cold War project

[compact leaf]

Our LGS got their Warcrow stuff in, they're letting everyone flip through the big hardcover lore book

So far we've seen some very interesting stuff

[next pilot]

Warcrow has sone cool minis

[compact leaf]

Oh yeah
There's some really neat stuff that hasn't been officially revealed yet

Giant Griffon(?) riders, some really awesome looking 4-armed dark priest guys..

Just an elf with huge wings

[next pilot]

The evil freaky faction looks cool

[compact leaf]

They have at least 3 different units with a similar aesthetic to the daemonist (usually the cool mask)

They've got some really cool designs overall

Though I personally don't think that'll be the faction I grab first, I'm not very good at painting organic stuff yet

[orchid tulip]

Gremlin/goblin army looks cute

[compact leaf]

That's actually the same army as the "not dark elves" Scions of Yaldabaoth, funnily enough

Like
They're one big thing

[orchid tulip]

Ye, saw the the big image in the rulebook

So Warcrow continues CBs pattern of avoiding D6s by using D8s

[next pilot]

Dark elves and body horror monsters together is great

[compact leaf]

Looks like they're going to be releasing some of them as boxes for Warcrow Adventures as well

Well.. a lot of them, actually

[next pilot]

Most of yugoloth looks like adventures enemies

[orchid tulip]

I hope Gremlins + some of the elves will be close to 250pts

[next pilot]

is that game size? I've looked but can't find anything on rules or what the starter boxes would contain

[compact leaf]

Miniatures :)

(this is just a screenshot from the rulebook PDF)

[compact leaf]

No words on how big a 250 point army will look, though

I would have to assume that what you get in the starter is close to 125? You usually get something like 150 in infinity 2 player starter boxes, and 175-250 (even sometimes the full 300) in action packs

So I don't think it's a stretch to assume you get somewhere close to half a full size army

[next pilot]

there's an available rulebook?

[compact leaf]

Yeppers

[compact leaf]

https://warcrow.com/resources/warcrow

[compact leaf]

Some important stuff in here:
https://youtu.be/76BdtipEfKA?si=epz9DGZslfge6tYB

Says an army will be somewhere around 15-20 models at 250 points

They still hilariously refuse to reveal the eagle model I saw in the big lore book

Oop there it is

...I really should've taken some pictures of the rulebook when I saw it

[orchid tulip]

Lava pot Gremlins <3

[compact leaf]

https://youtu.be/yxJW2G61sOQ?si=s8RwgvuW9CljtLy8

[autumn sun]

https://www.wyrd-games.net/news/2024/7/3/waldos-weekly-six-impossible-things-before-breakfast

[supple shale]

we’re so back tikbalangang

[sudden halo]

Real excited to paint unit-02

[haughty bobcat]

For the handful of turnip28 players here. What cult do you find is the best for a new player to use.

[next pilot]

Turnip has factions?

[haughty bobcat]

You can select a cult to give you some bonus rules/units

[tepid steeple]

that one about teaching ppl seems good, though not talking from experience

the one that gives you rewards for intended strategies

like shooting ppl who have already shot and thus can't shoot back

[compact leaf]

Yet another TAG
https://youtu.be/PdhOtbXMnD4?si=C9rEmPfY1tSauH6-

But also that's definitely inspired by the sengoku Astray

[supple shale]

Both the new TAGs really wearing those inspirations on the sleeve huh

(Gundam SEED my despised)

[compact leaf]

Fwiw Sengoku Astray is from Build Fighters

[compact leaf]

Okay
Warcrow
Finally saw the points that come in the starter set

You get:

• 100 points of Hegemony of Embersig
• 110 points of Northern Tribes

(a reminder that a full size game is 250 points)

The promo bear is 60 points

Oh yeah look at this fella

[orchid tulip]

I both like and dislike the Scions....

[compact leaf]

Their whole schtick is being evil academics who went a bit too far with magic

And well

There's also the redcaps in there, they're what you'd expect

[orchid tulip]

I like some of the mages, and the gremlins/caps

Some of the more body horror units not so much

[compact leaf]

Well, you can probably avoid those then

[orchid tulip]

Mask mage and the 30 redcaps!

[compact leaf]

The scions are the one army that feels like 2 armies in one, you could go with the redcaps or the crazy mage body horror units

Or both

[orchid tulip]

Scions and Northern tribes are probs the factions I like/vibe with the most atm. Kinda wonder if we'll get a unit(s) that transform mid battle. As the one shifter I've seen has only a beast model from what I know/seen

[compact leaf]

There might be some rules for it, but I'm not sure if we'll see different models for different forms (though infinity did do that once I think)

[orchid tulip]

Infinity has the tag pilot, and Nomads have a transforming bike iirc

[compact leaf]

Oh yeah there's that, but there is also the literal Wolfmen infinity has

Oh yeah streloks

[orchid tulip]

And the Dog-Warriors

[compact leaf]

Dog-warriors transform?

[orchid tulip]

THis makes me think so

[compact leaf]

Oh yeah they do

God
Impetuous 3 wounds

That's insane

[orchid tulip]

And a +1B chain D:

Imagine a unit that transforms from a certain stress value

[compact leaf]

I can see it being a thing

[next pilot]

I really like the scions personally

[autumn sun]

https://www.karwansaraypublishers.com/en-us/blogs/wss-blog/server-down-websites-out o o f

Lotta websites for miniature companies were on...one server, ran by one guy. And there was a failure with the server, and potentially all of those websites might be gone. Kaput.

[hollow crypt]

https://xkcd.com/2347 as always, a relevant xkcd

xkcd: Dependency

Someday ImageMagick will finally break for good and we'll have a long period of scrambling as we try to reassemble civilization from the rubble.

that really sucks

[sand cloak]

_>

Dam.

This is gonna kill some companies/games.

Like this is the worst thing you can have happen in a niche product with a niche audience.

[sand sonnet]

Rivenstone was sold to new owners: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bamdungeondelvers/rivenstone-a-brand-new-tabletop-miniature-skirmish-game/posts/4143212

No idea who bought it or why they wanted a game that will end up being dead on arrival

[autumn sun]

That's...just so ???

[compact leaf]

I'm not sure about the dead on arrival thing but it's certainly a decision.
They decided it was for the best though

[autumn sun]

I think it's going to be DOA because the company has managed to piss off their backers, aka their potential fanbase, and like...who's gonna want to play a game that was tied to a company this bad? And who sold off their obligation to someone else?

Like they didn't even release the models, STLs, or rulebook.

[compact leaf]

Oh
I would've expected a rulebook at least by now

Yeesh

[autumn sun]

The comments paint a dire picture.

[compact leaf]

[sand sonnet]

There was a preview rulebook but they pretty much just failed on every other front.

[next pilot]

how did they screw up so bad?

[sand sonnet]

Poor management is the short story.

[next pilot]

and the longer story? I find these sorts of things interesting to learn about

[sand sonnet]

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/803404.page

[next pilot]

thanks

[supple shale]

Now that’s a fascinating read, pretty bleak stuff

[forest charm]

the first two are, in my opinion, the easiest to learn and get the hang of things with, though you can honestly play without a cult for your first few matches.

[orchid tulip]

Warcrow, what was the issue with using either cm or inches?

[autumn sun]

Oh come the fuck on

People derided that shit when Killteam did it, what makes them think this is a good idea.

[orchid tulip]

Default moves seams to be 4-4 so 6-6cm

[compact leaf]

🤷

I don't mind it personally, but it's still not really necessary from a game design standpoint I think

[autumn sun]

It's extra steps requiring a specific measuring tool.

Which...c'mon just give is a normal tape measurer.

[sand cloak]

Or use hexes.

Or squares

This is like a me thing but I would hexes for movement/range.

But that's because I played a lot of Final Fantasy Tactics on Gameboy.

[tepid steeple]

so, to be fair, part of the issue with kill team is that it does all that for literally no reason cause it's still inches

and then like the other to be fair is it's kinda relevant that corvus belli is like the one game company making a game that is published in both cm an inches so like

maybe that have had problems with [both] and don't want to choose [either] and this is the compromise or whatever

[sudden halo]

It's a game with custom dice, so I don't mind the custom movement widget.

If you're already requiring a bunch of other proprietary peripherals, and they give you the measurements to make you own it's fine. Though movement widgets really only make sense to me when you move things front to back, like in XWing. If it's just a ruler but different it's a little "what's the point"

[sudden halo]

At least for infinity, the measurements in cm and inches are the same, or at least within a few mm.

I guess games sit in two camps for me

Can play with stuff in your house
Minis agnostic
Measure and move (or hex/square but not on specific maps)
D6s or at least standard RPG dice

Needs special components
Proprietary minis
Custom dice
Movement widgets or game boards.

[tepid steeple]

I mean like every profile has a cm version and an inch version

[compact leaf]

Warcrow does measure movement front to back, fwiw

They've been really really clear on that

So there's one argument in favor of the widget

[trail fulcrum]

At least it isn't kill team

They could have done a cool thing with how their movement widgets are done

But nooooo

[orchid tulip]

But kill team is just inches in a trenchcoat, this is between an inch and a cm

[trail fulcrum]

Yeah it's also somehow less infuriating than KT'S wasted potential hahaha

[orchid tulip]

I fail to see how having a more readily available substitute measuring device is more infuriating

[autumn sun]

KT you can just switch to inches, whereas Warcrow is having this weird middle-man shit that doesn't quite work like any other game out there.

[trail fulcrum]

Doesn't warcrow do the front to back thing

Also?

[compact leaf]

Yep

Everything to do with movement asks you to take the model and put it on the opposite side of the measurement tool (it's worth noting also that squads only really need to measure 1 unit's movement, you get to place the rest around the commander after measurement)

[trail fulcrum]

What is this Legion

[compact leaf]

🤷

Anyways
We've been roped into Heavy Gear Blitz
The army building rules are really neat

[next pilot]

Marvel crisis protocol also has custom move tools

More stuff to buy is the way a lot of mini games are going sadly

[supple shale]

fuck yeah Heavy Gear

[sudden halo]

Love HGB, though its not without flaws. I think the beta action economy rules in the companion help a lot.

I wish the army building was a little more restrictive, I like what they've got going on but it is a bit too open ended, especially with the number of factions that can soup with others. It's an awesome setting and a little tuning from being a great game. The RPG also uses similar mechanics and has rules for playing encounters with blitz minis which is really neat.

[compact leaf]

Honestly I think army construction is a taste thing, and this really suits my personal tastes. I can do a "your dudes" without it being completely open-ended (Battletech) and variants actually matter here

[sudden halo]

I probably wouldn't mind it as much if some of the balance was better, just lets you optimize too much for my taste and gives you little reason to take base models compared to a bunch of special weapons. I do like my wargames to have forces a bit more thematic or in line with the worldbuilding though

[compact leaf]

I mean
You can still have a thematic force that's optimal, that's what sub-lists are for as I understand it.
But I see what you mean, it might be too many roughly equivalent options for some people's tastes

[compact leaf]

Hmmm
Warcrow pre-orders are up, all the local shops have the starter set at $160+ CAD for those wondering

We're not sure what pricing looks like elsewhere

[trail fulcrum]

Finally tried Warcrow

It's yeah

very fantasy flight

ahhaha

[compact leaf]

We got that impression too, what with all the special components

[trail fulcrum]

Even the movement centric gameplay

[compact leaf]

I think I'm gonna grab Heavy Gear for now, we like the look of it and the setting is more suited to our tastes

But boy is it gonna be a chore to find people to play with

[compact leaf]

There are like... 3(?) actions that move you (or an opponent some way)
It felt very very positioning dependent yeah

[trail fulcrum]

Move and slow is very silly into the orcs

[orchid tulip]

Local here has it for ~$120USD

[supple shale]

https://discord.com/invite/ExrBaMK

Pretty good crowd over there including a lot of the original and current DP9 crew

[compact leaf]

[midnight vine]

Oh why aristeia is getting a digital version

[supple shale]

Regarding the service outage across a bunch of UK-based toy soldier retailers: got an email from Harry at QRF confirming that the whole website will have to be rebuilt from scratch. Likely the case for many affected vendors, and that’s fuckin rough.

[autumn sun]

Oooooof, that sucks.

[compact leaf]

Youch, hopefully they'll be able to get it back up quickly

[supple shale]

I am Definitely Worried about a couple of my favorite shops who are on the list, especially QRF and S&S which are more or less one-man shows catering to a small market (ie. all forty of us 15mm Cold War Freaks out there)

Harry just took over QRF from the founder last year and he’d been having a tough time of it even without all this.

I had an order with him racked in my cart and now I really wish I’d gone through with it before the site went down.

[fallen rune]

What happened?

[native portal]

one of those 'dudes whose server infrastructure holds up like 200 niche sites' died or fucked off

[autumn sun]

Last I checked the server crapped out due to an update.

And there was no backups made (because of course)

[native portal]

lol, lmao

I wish I liked painting more, I would ransack most of these stores

instead I have a pile of unpainted 15 and 6mm stuff

[autumn sun]

I'm trying to get through my backlog.

[native portal]

I have a baby coming in uhhh

three weeks

so I have carefully stored all my shit away, god knows when it's coming out again

[tepid steeple]

Good luck!!!!

[native portal]

I have hopes of playing some online VASSAL tho

'Parry this you fucking casual'

[fallen rune]

ooooooof

[supple shale]

“Aethelred the Extremely Fucking Unready” lmao

[supple shale]

However!

Tiny tanks gang rise up, copped a T-80BV

[autumn sun]

https://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/164802-an-oni-rework/

I don't know enough about her crew but this is a considerable change. Practically a rewrite.

[sand sonnet]

Ministravaganza starts in 15 minutes https://www.twitch.tv/atomicmassgames

[tepid steeple]

ooh

[next pilot]

Oh neat, I’m at work but what happened?

[sand sonnet]

So far? Opening Statement, Shatterpoint road map, and some painting from Dallas Kemp.

This goes for the next several days.

Lots of new stuff for Legion and MCP coming up.

[next pilot]

Checked the schedule, interested in the new mcp road map

I’d love if Nico Minoru shows up

[next pilot]

Crisis protocol man thing mini looks real nice

They revealed Gladiator, Dark Pheonix, Tigra, Ronin, Echo, Lady Mastermind, Exodus, Avalanche, Spider-Man 2099, Abomination and the Wrecking Crew

[next pilot]

unfortunately wrecking crew are only 4 threat

it's all four of them on a single base

[next pilot]

What mcp stuff are you looking forward to ecclection? I was planning on getting monsters unleashed and Elsa/Tim once they released

Although I also want to grab daredevil/bullseye, Luke Cage/Iron Fist, Moon Knight/Blade, Kingpin, Omega Red and Juggernaut of the pre existing stuff which is a lot given how much unpainted stuff I still have

[sand sonnet]

I don’t play MCP myself, I’m all in on Shatterpoint these days.

[next pilot]

I prefer Marvel to Star Wars

[sand sonnet]

Fair! Both games are in good hands.

[trail fulcrum]

more spiderfriends

mostly

[next pilot]

mostly what?

[trail fulcrum]

Stuff from MCP I want

Mostly want more spiderfriends

Coping for Leopardion

[next pilot]

They’ve teased a spiderverse box with 2099 and likely three others

The others haven’t been confirmed but I’d bet they’re Penny, Punk and Noir

[autumn sun]

Would be cool if they did more than spiderman 2099.

Gimme that weird-ass Punisher 2099

https://i.redd.it/9q40vnpsuy281.jpg

[next pilot]

I'd honestly love if they introduced a 'bad future' affiliation that could take characters from 2099 as well as various time travelers like Cable and Bishop

[next pilot]

The def buy things they could release for me would be the Runaways and Alpha Flight

[clear shadow]

https://youtu.be/oxdt3vDsmSs?si=cmz_AhwRHj2mGmUg

[clear shadow]

Oh nevermind this was discussed in this server before

My bad

[compact leaf]

Bought heavy Gear stuff
They work pretty fast
Took 8 days to get 2 full armies made and it'll take 5 more to ship

Also also

excitement

tiny robots will be mine soon

[potent wyvern]

Hey question for the folks here: what are your favorite narrative play/campaign rules?
Doing some research and i wanna check some stuff out

[autumn sun]

Mordheim, but with a big ol' asterix of "it's kind of terrible but I have a deep affection for it."

[sand sonnet]

Planetary Empire's physical tiles and flags were fun.

[haughty bobcat]

Necromunda but Mordheim is also pretty damn good

Followed up by frostgrave and This is Not a Test

[haughty bobcat]

What’s your gripe with mordheim?

[autumn sun]

Wildly imbalanced just in general, but also with exploration; there's a lot of "oh you gain 1d6 gc and a shield" type entries which is pretty boring, and it isn't unless you roll high/more dice do things get more interesting.

XP has some pretty big empty spots where there's no advancement for models, which only widens the more a hero sticks around and accrues XP. So you could spend several games not making any real improvement, then on the cusp of getting a new skill you get got'd by some smelly rat dude with a sling throwing a rock at your kneecaps. That is part of the charm, but it's still a knock against it.

The big thing about it is that there's no definitive end to a Mordheim campaign. There's no end point such as "first leader to max XP wins" or "control the most territory after X games" or whatever. It's left up to the group to figure that out with no real guidance on the matter.

[haughty bobcat]

That doesn’t sound like a negative

[autumn sun]

It's a negative in that damn near every campaign just peters out, leaving with something of an unsatisfying end. A Mordheim campaign can be great but there also needs to be at least like, some sort of end goal for people to strive towards.

These issues wouldn't be so bad if the system itself wasn't also fundamentally broken and requires house rules and gentleman's agreements to not break it over your knee.

[haughty bobcat]

I can agree to that but most people usually have a set duration with multiple meta awards and a big finale plot mission

“First leader to max xp” would just be an award for a player in the same way as “most dead henchmen”

[autumn sun]

Oh yeah lots of groups do that, my complaint is that there's nothing in the rulebook to facilitate that. It's one of its biggest failings that the designers just assumed people would figure it out themselves or that people would play the same campaign like, forever.

[haughty bobcat]

But people did figure it out, the game has been adopted by the community for the better part of the past 20 years and there’s been enough stuff built around it by the community

[autumn sun]

I'm aware, yes.

The rules as written were fine enough in 1999 but it's been 25 years and miniature games have advanced by a lot, and if it was made today I'd hope they'd have more guidelines for this sort of thing baked in or actually, y'know, have an end point for campaigns.

Like, I adore Mordheim. But it has a lot of problems! And I'm fully aware of what those problems are and can work around them, but for new players who may not have a community to get into or not so internet-savvy as to find what other groups are doing, there's going to be issues if they're coming off the back of more morden games.

[haughty bobcat]

I don’t know how you could get into mordheim at this point without any exposure to the community or culture it is very niche

[autumn sun]

It's a theoretical but one I put in anyway because shit like this tends to happen. I've been proven wrong on similar ones before, hah.

[sleek trail]

This is kinda happening

In the sense that tuomas is making trench crusade

[autumn sun]

I gotta dig deeper into TC, I gave it a brief look-over and parts of it seemed awfully familiar (in a good way).

[compact leaf]

https://youtu.be/kLpyeeZIBCU?si=G2eSku6puD0ENHPC

https://youtu.be/LZYsss2Ohjk?si=jXpdAkdHqBA73uHE

Here we go folks

Oh hey infinity getting a new edition

[orchid tulip]

N5 before N4 got feature complete?

[sleek trail]

N5 lmao

[sleek trail]

From whats being said its a pretty small update

Comparatively

So they might just be cleaning up and then carrying on their plans

[compact leaf]

Yeah afaik they're just seeking to optimize the rules, I don't think a lot will change

Maybe reinforcements will get reworked, that's the biggest thing I can see coming

[sand sonnet]

N4.5

They did a similar thing with N2 IIRC.

[compact leaf]

We shall see what Corvus Belli cooks

[autumn sun]

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/SK7MouGPLBqAmSaj/

Dropfleet Commander is coming off sale. As we prepare to release the latest edition we have to say goodbye to ALL Dropfleet items from our website. Whilst some products may become available in a new format, others will not return. This will all come into effect August 9th with no products being added until 2.0's release later this year.

[sand sonnet]

Huh. Really seems like they’re replacing most of the line.

[trail fulcrum]

Hope they're dumping the resin ahahha

[sudden halo]

Biggest change I know of is armor getting moved to a roll under, to match everything else.

Right now it would work like everything else if the attacker was making the roll. They're shuffling numbers so the defender still makes the roll.

[umbral prawn]

Hello folks, the next update for my game, Night Sky Falling, is out now: https://docs.google.com/document/d/16rhbPQ145-GO75EV5PsH07R7xccXQXaiB5JWTRfAYd0/edit?usp=sharing
If you are interested in playtesting, join the 7th fleet server here: https://discord.gg/jMaVsvMW

[stable pelican]

someone got me into infinity

i love the nomads

[orchid tulip]

Nomads are cuties

[stable pelican]

this slays hard

[midnight vine]

Same company has another game called Aristeia that I lost my mind over for a bit

[compact leaf]

It also takes place in the same universe and a lot of the models can be used in the wargame

[compact leaf]

Ah.. a fellow Mobile brigada enjoyer

[midnight vine]

Huh I didn’t know that last part

[compact leaf]

You love to see it

[midnight vine]

It’s getting a video game

[compact leaf]

Indeeby

[compact leaf]

We'll play on TTS with you anytime!
Hilariously you would be the second person I've played with on here and also the second person on here who's big into Nomads

(that I know of)

I've just discovered I don't really have any favored faction designs yet, I should probably get that sorted out...

[orchid tulip]

I'd love to play more Infinity, especially a proper game as economy hinders me from going full 200-300pts

[compact leaf]

I'd love to have an infinity scene in general here, would be nice

We've managed to put together 300 points of Steel Phalanx but that's also a hero army lol, all the stuff I wanted was cheap

[orchid tulip]

I have 2 pet models as is, tho one doesn't work in the subfaction I wanna try D:

[compact leaf]

Infinity likes proxying so long as the silhouette matches, if that's worth anything

[orchid tulip]

It's more I also like the stats of
them

[compact leaf]

Sectorials are the way to go starting out though imo

Out of curiosity, what was the sectorial you were looking at?

[orchid tulip]

I play non-Sectorial Nomads atm, but wanna try some of the new Bakunin stuff

Half of the new stuff is locked in the sectorial tho

[compact leaf]

It is it is

I will say
Most of it is cool, but feels a tad overpriced (points-wise)
So you're gonna have a bit of a smaller army I think

What were the "pet models"?

[orchid tulip]

I am a fan of more compact armies

Octavia is the one causing issues

Zoe and πWell are the 2nd pet

[compact leaf]

Ah
Yeah
She's a neutral piece, appears in pretty much every vanilla army but almost no sectorials

So.. that's to be expected, tbh

[midnight vine]

I’ve been turned off infinity in the past because I like games with even lower model counts but I have been meaning to give a second chance, anyone want to give me a faction run down?

[compact leaf]

You do have access to Riot Grrls in Bakunin though, and they're.. kinda insane tbh

[compact leaf]

You want vanilla faction rundowns or sectorial (subfactions) rundowns?

[midnight vine]

Uhhhh

How much work is it

Because I assume it’s late where you are and don’t want to make too much

[compact leaf]

I worked late lol, have a while before I'll settle in and sleep. So time and work are non-issues for me

[midnight vine]

Just vanilla and I guess I’ll ask about sub factions for the ones that seem cool

[compact leaf]

There's also this trusty thing, might be kinda invalid by October though (what with the new edition coming)

https://www.thediceabide.com/blog/infinity-n4-which-infinity-army-is-for-you

Gosh there we go

Uhh I'll just go over vanilla stuff and then mention any sectorials in them if you wanna hear more about a specific faction

[midnight vine]

You’re a champion

Thank you till

[compact leaf]

So
The main ones are:
-PanOceania

• Yu-Jing
• Nomads
• Haqqislam
• Ariadna
• Aleph
• Combined Army
• O-12
• JSA (which is becoming a proper faction with sectorials in the new edition, no info just yet though)

[midnight vine]

I narrowed it down to 3 based on that link

[compact leaf]

Oh lovely, I can tell you more about those ones then

[midnight vine]

Ariadna, Haqqislam, O-12

The last one in particular, I love to use specialist things

[compact leaf]

Alrighty
I'll start there then.

O-12 is currently the newest faction in the game, and represents the UN of the setting. They're space cops, they usually don't want to kill anyone. So they have a lot of nonlethal weaponry (the most access to it in the game!). Of note are their several types of guns that shoot immobilizing glue, which basically prevents a unit from doing ANYTHING for the rest of the game if they can't roll a good number on a save. As you read in article, many of their units have a clear role and are specialized to do that specific role and not much else.

O-12 has two sectorials, one of which just came out this year:

• Starmada:
  This one contains a lot of the old O-12 models from the initial release, they take the identity of O-12 being space cops and add mobility onto it. Insane amounts of mobility. A lot of their units can super jump as a short action or move vertically during a move (both of which would otherwise be a full action instead of a short one).

• Torchlight brigade:
  These are the new guys. Their whole deal is heavy power-armored troops complimented by asymmetric warfare-specialized light and medium troops. Their core weakness (as with any heavy infantry army) is that their main core is probably going to be pretty hackable, but they are extremely durable otherwise. In other words: space marines

[midnight vine]

Mobility over mass every time for me

The RTF from Haqqislam also seem very up my alley, who doesn’t love supersoldiers

[compact leaf]

Now Haqqislam is one of the weirder ones.
Their whole deal is having good doctors, viral ammunition, and scary irregular asymmetric troops (many of which are straight up assassins). The latter is their main trait, I'd say. They can hide all sorts of things under camouflage tokens. Rocket launchers... Shotguns.. a guy that will just walk up and kill you, etc. I'd say their main weakness is that their access to longer ranged heavy weapons leave a little to be desired (not much rocket launchers, missile launchers or HMGs). Also Ghulams are your basic infantry, and may be the most versatile pieces in the game in terms of useful loadouts.

• Hassassins:
  These guys take the Haqq identity and double down on light irregular troops. You have more access to assassins and cheap irregulars here, but almost your entire force will be very lightly armored. You're extremely proficient at taking out specific targets using those assassins, and your defense game is very good while you have those irregulars dotted everywhere. You do have a couple notable troops: the Hassassin Fiday, your main assassin (which has the rare "impersonation" ability that prevents units from targeting it in that state), and the Asawira, a regenerating heavy infantry with scary melee skills.
• Ramah Task Force:
  Home to Haqqislam's super soldiers. They have some regenerating troops, Tarik Mansouri (your big (and I mean BIG) hero unit), and sacrifices access to Haqqislam's cheap irregular troops to be able to create durable and flexible teams of units. They're comparitavely also pretty easy to play due to having more durable units than the other sectorials. They (like vanilla Haqqislam) make very good use of Ghulams, and have access to the biggest unit in the game.
• Qapu Kalkhi(?):
  I'll admit, I know nothing about this one beyond that it's the one that has a troop with a unique incendiary heavy machine gun.

Now Ariadna I do not know much about, so I can only offer some stuff on the two sectorials my locals play
But Ariadna is huge on the camouflage game, has basically no hacking at all but also can't be hacked, and has giant antipodes (read: space were-animals (don't ask how they're born though, it's really weird))

They also have the most access to AP ammo and T2 (read: it does twice the damage when it hits) weapons!
The two sectorials I know stuff about are:

• Kosmoflot
  Ariadna's newest sectorial, they're the highest tech and most elite of Ariadna's arsenal come together in one army. You have access to the mighty Bearpode (it's a big funny Bear with a hammer) as well as many big named characters in the faction (notably William Wallace and The Unknown Ranger). Unfortunately, they do sacrifice most of the camo shenanigans that Ariadna is known for, but it's still worth it. They also have access to Ariadna's only TAG!

[midnight vine]

Yeah if you couldn’t tell I like the idea of springing up out of nowhere and shanking important units

I think that’s funny

[compact leaf]

• USAriadna:
  Americans. Almost all of their troops have 3 armor (which is pretty decent!) and they have so many flamethrowers. They also have less camo (like Kosmo), but have some cool mobile units to make up for it (and Wild Bill, who shows up in your opponent's deployment zone and just kind of kills everyone until you do anything). This is also the native home of The Unknown Ranger, one of the scariest gunfighters in the game.

[compact leaf]

See, I'd never recommend them to a beginner unless they're dead-set on that idea
But this is what JSA (and to a lesser extent Hassassins) do for their entire gameplan

Most of JSA armies won't even put tokens down, they're completely off the map until their user decides to do something with them

[midnight vine]

I was more interested in RTF than hassassins because that’s not all they do

And while I like that stuff I also like being able to engage with the game on a more traditional axis

[compact leaf]

Yeah RTF is pretty versatile, Hassassins are very much a scalpel

Also RTF designs..
Mmmmfff...

[midnight vine]

Space cops also seem cool because they can run up walls

You have a back line? My front line is now there

[compact leaf]

Oh yeah, where Starmada has a lot of mobile stuff, Torchlight has a lot of good forward-deploying stuff

That's another quality I nearly forgot

Most of which deploys with camo, of course

[midnight vine]

Of the ones I’m interested in which do you most recommend for a new player

[compact leaf]

Hmm
Well RTF was always the "beginner faction" before O-12 came out, but hilariously O-12 (and by extension Starmada) is marketed as the "beginner faction"

Honestly?
I can just do you one better and we can try both on some small-scale games on TTS to see which one you like

Because I'm not sure what I'd recommend?

RTF also has some decent access to mobility traits cause of the whole super soldier thing they have going on

[midnight vine]

That’d be sick, I’m not really free until like next Tuesday Wednesday but I’d love to give a go around then if works for you

[compact leaf]

So they might be the better recommendation imo
But at this point I'd say what you think looks cool or has cool more overrides it

[midnight vine]

Oh I haven’t even looked at aesthetics, that matters a bit less to me than mechanical satisfaction

[compact leaf]

My next Tuesday and Wednesday are conveniently open actually, whatever works for you!

[midnight vine]

Excellent

[compact leaf]

Did you want me to throw together lists or did you want to do it?

[midnight vine]

If you could that’d be fantastic, if not I can manage probably

[compact leaf]

Aye aye Reggie, I'll see what I can cook up for 150 points. DM me if you want me to include any specific units

Hmmm

Actually no, I'll do 200 points, that way it won't be so swingy

[orchid tulip]

Was looking over my 300 Bakunin list, and just saw that one of the models can use DCharges in CC with +1B

[compact leaf]

Well that's certainly something

[orchid tulip]

Para CC Weapon(-3) means I as the attacker roll at -3, right?

[supple shale]

That imposes -3 on the victim

[tepid steeple]

yeah any bad stuff applies to the target

[orchid tulip]

Oki

[tepid steeple]

like odalisques cc(-9)

[orchid tulip]

Getting +1B on all CC weapons feels good

full stat line

[tepid steeple]

ooh yeah fiddler is cool

and a trans woman!

[stable pelican]

i have bought 3 minis

spitfire and 2 mechs

[orchid tulip]

Looking forward to trying her out

[tepid steeple]

i really need to get around to getting some infinity. especially since blackwind's days are probably numbered and I like those forces a lot

and not a huge jsa fan which I imagine will be half of the next box

[orchid tulip]

They might have good rules, I just can't stand the look of them

So would need to find a good proxy

[sudden halo]

Always love to see fiddler. The trans girl power Haris sees a lot of play in my lists. Fiddler, Avicenna, and the Spitfire Riot Grrl

Mobile brigada are probably fine riot Grrl proxies, unless you're playing them in starco where it might be confusing. Really any HI that isn't in Bakunin should work.

[sudden halo]

Yeah, next box is JSA/PanO

[sudden halo]

Bakunin is one of the strongest sectorials right now. I don't really agree with Till that they're an expensivr/compact faction. Definitely some pieces that are expensive for reasons you don't want them to be, like custodiers paying for gunfighting stats as hackers, but you have good access to flash bots, your moderator Lt and decoy are 9 points each, and you have two of the best warbands in the game with Morlocks and Zellenkreigers

The riot grrl takes are very beginning friendly. The nun based lists are less so, since they're more fragile, but still aren't on the super difficult side. A big advantage is that Bakunin is broad enough that just knowing the faction your playing doesn't tell the opponent much about what to expect.

Rn I'm working on Tohaa lists for a tournament in 3 weeks. They're probably not going to be playable at the start of N5 so I've got to get the games in while I can.

[tepid steeple]

oh yeah, only pano im really interested in is winterfor because cool coats

[sudden halo]

I do love the cool coats.

I feel that way about YJ. I want the winter Zianshis and the tiger zoid but otherwise not into them much.

[velvet badge]

I love the look of winterfor but something about playing them just feels off compared to my other Pano sectorals

Jotum is cool tho

[velvet badge]

Do we know what Pano sectoral it is?

[clear shadow]

I think I heard there was going to be a new sectorial

K-something colonial force

[tepid steeple]

new planet?

[sudden halo]

We don't know yet. We do know they're getting the Tikbalang though

So return of Acon? But in space this time?

[sudden halo]

Broadly what we know about the story is that JSA hijacked a PanO exploration ship and claim jumped the habitable planet behind the new wormhole. PanO is not happy about it.

[tepid steeple]

mm

[sudden halo]

Dunno how long the story will cover, but my understanding is that having mostly uncontested, secure land of their own is part of what is bringing JSA up to full faction status from NA2.

[tepid steeple]

yeee

[compact leaf]

To be fair, I was just talking about the new nuns (in the context of a pure nun list),
I know Bakunin tends to go wide most of the time lol

I can only hope the box is an Acon refresh..

[compact leaf]

Ah, yeah
They don't have great models right now imo

Oh yeah
https://youtu.be/371oeFJx6d0?si=L0_XBz7SGyIb5dBx

[tepid steeple]

riot grrls are such a fun concept that are currently executed. unoptimally

[compact leaf]

Yeah they're..

... definitely something

Not as bad as odalisques and chimeras/pupniks at least

Can't believe they downgraded the ladder so hard

Okay tbf it's mostly the weird cat thing
But.. the old sculpts were still pretty cool

[next pilot]

The pupniks used to have a topless furry dominatrix

[orchid tulip]

Why the nipple armour tho?

[tepid steeple]

idk odalisques are fine i think

not having vacuum sealed tops would be better but

guhghh

riot girls could be so much better

i like cheerkillers

[orchid tulip]

They cover them more with their arms in the new sculpts but it is still present...

Cheerkillers look great

[tepid steeple]

hmmm

[compact leaf]

I just hope CB starts to move away from the more obviously horny sculpts in the future

[tepid steeple]

wonder if I could kitbash some riot grrls from mobile birgada

i think they have

or else I wouldve stayed far far away tbhhhhh

like compare bakunin nuns pre rework

[orchid tulip]

They are slowly moving away from the horny, but it could be faster in some aspects

[tepid steeple]

range refreshing can only go so quick tbf

[orchid tulip]

Ye

[tepid steeple]

although I guess for me I also dont mind horny necessarily I think the taste has also just improved

[compact leaf]

Hmmm
Debating
I either finish my Hassassin collection, get into whatever PanO is in the new box, or play Caledonians

[orchid tulip]

But Riot grrls was refreshed closely to the nuns and are still pretty bad in some aspects

[compact leaf]

...the latter seems to be slowly getting some new sculpts so I'm hoping for a small refresh for them

[tepid steeple]

i wish sapper was still a thing

i love stuff like the old french one

[compact leaf]

Acon still has it :)

Oh wait uh
The French still have it somewhere too I believe

[tepid steeple]

i mean I know it does still literally exist but out of range n such

[compact leaf]

Ah.. yeah..

That's true

[tepid steeple]

and second hand market in uk doesnt seem too helpful, at least on ebay

[orchid tulip]

Also, two of the new JSA have pretty great booties, but it is on both the male and female variant at least

[tepid steeple]

not sure how useful it really even is in the modern game I just love an action base like that

[orchid tulip]

This is a fun design compared to the all other tags

[compact leaf]

Chernobog my beloved

Don't you let anybody slander you
You are perfect

[orchid tulip]

It and Maghariba Guard are the most unique, not in a bad way, tags

[tepid steeple]

i love maggie!!!!!

[compact leaf]

Y'know what
My big hope for N5?
The ability to buy a set of cardboard tokens

[velvet badge]

I'd be down for that. I'm excited for the tikbalang anyways since it went oop by the time I was rounding out my MO collection

[supple shale]

Sapper mentioned

Truly one of the skills of all time, love my Zouave HMGs

[tepid steeple]

so coool

jealous you have em

moblot too

[supple shale]

My FRRM is complete except for old Jacques B,

Truly the sectorial of my heart

Got most of it back when it was still in print, but

[weary cradle]

i looked into infinity factions & i find this deeply funny

joan of arc when joan of arc 2.0 walks in

[velvet badge]

Lol it's actually just a different power armour. 1.0 is heavy Armour while 2.0 is mobility armour

[compact leaf]

Iirc she's an aspect too (an artificial human)

[orchid tulip]

Aren't all the "real life" people artificial?

[compact leaf]

Most if not all of them I think, yeah

[orchid tulip]

Only know Will and Joan by name

[compact leaf]

Oh there is also the entire Steel Phalanx roster bringing in the Iliad

I could've sworn one of the characters sharing a name with a historical/mythical figure was just a regular human though...

[velvet badge]

Sun Tzu, John Hawkwood, Miyamoto Musashi. Saladin. There's a good few

[velvet badge]

Correct me if I'm wrong but aspects are the standard aleph that are branched off of aleph. The recreated historical figures are called recreations I believe?

[compact leaf]

Oh, yeah.
Uh
That last part is something I can't find a source for though.

The word I was looking for was "Lhost", not "aspect"

[velvet badge]

Aren't Lhosts just the term for artificial bodies?

[compact leaf]

Ye

[velvet badge]

I was part of campaign for the ttrpg forever ago so there's all sorts of random lore bits floating around in my head

Man that rule system was rough

[compact leaf]

Aha!
You are correct, they're called "recreations" when they're named after a real life figure

[supple shale]

Modiphus 2d20 is definitely an acquired taste

[velvet badge]

It was so unintuitive to play

[compact leaf]

Wasn't it based on GURPS?

[orchid tulip]

Found a historic figure who is not a recreation

[velvet badge]

Oh?

Who?

[orchid tulip]

Atalanta

[sand sonnet]

A few of the greeks aren't as they're just Myrmidons who got promoted to having a name.

[velvet badge]

Huh, more ya know

[sand sonnet]

The doctor and the missile launcher guy are also not IIRC.

Been a while since I was deep in the Infinity fluff though.

[compact leaf]

Phoenix is just an old Myrmidon, yeah

So is Machaon

[orchid tulip]

Diomedes is just a skilled Ekdromoi

[velvet badge]

"we're not even gonna bother bringing these guys back, you two are cooler so have their names"

Actually going through the roster, I'm surprised there's no Odysseus

[orchid tulip]

THere is also Casanova who we don't know if he is a recreation or not

JSA having a two recreations as NA2 is kinda fun

[velvet badge]

There's Robin Hood as well, whose on the MO roster of all things

[compact leaf]

Ehh Robin Hook is a rogue AI though, different deal there I think

[orchid tulip]

Nomads have discount Robin Hood, Robin Hook

[compact leaf]

You two are talking about the same character lol

[orchid tulip]

Bakunin to be exact

Ye, hook is AI and not a Recre

[velvet badge]

Then why the hell is he on the native MO roster? Does he just vibe with black friars? Lol

[orchid tulip]

MO?

[velvet badge]

PanO military orders

Space knights

[orchid tulip]

Unsure, she is from Tunguska but lives in Bakunin

SHe is the HVT in Dire FOes 12

https://store.corvusbelli.com/en/wargames/infinity/miniatures/dire-foes-12-troubled-theft

[velvet badge]

Such a strange unit to have on the MO roster but none of the other Pano sectorals

[orchid tulip]

DF12 is Baku vs MO so

[velvet badge]

Fair

[orchid tulip]

I like how Morlocks went from random fantasy charas to Copyright INfringement the group

[supple shale]

Wm. Wallace (my beloved) is a recreation who got hit on the head real hard and lost wifi, then the clans got some Black Labs type crew to remove his Aleph Bill Gates 5g Microchip ™️ so now he’s just that guy

[velvet badge]

And this is after he wandered the werewolf infested wasteland in a state of disrepair

[orchid tulip]

Tunguska got a Myrmidon in a similar way

Just to stick it to the AI

[velvet badge]

Damn never realized how good a glow up the new lizard tag was

[orchid tulip]

Pretty good, it also lost it's pilot arms

[twin mountain]

https://gamefound.com/en/projects/martin-wallace/bloodstones-expansion--reprint crossposting from strategy club

[compact leaf]

Oh I remember hearing about this one

Apparently it was really divisive, lots of people loved it, lots of people really disliked it

[compact leaf]

Iirc I heard the above from a SUSD podcast episode actually

[twin mountain]

oooh do you rec the podcasts

I find podcasts hard to consume

[compact leaf]

We download em off of Spotify when we can
Our drive to and from school/work is 40 minutes long so we tend to fill that time with a podcast episode

But yeah the SUSD podcasts are pretty high quality we think

So we do recommend them if you ever did want a board games podcast

[compact leaf]

(for context on the explanation of driving, we thought you meant "rec" as in "record", not "recommend")

[potent wyvern]

https://x.com/TrenchCrusade/status/1824829269895483759

Trench Crusade (@TrenchCrusade) on X

Playtest Rules version 1.4 is available! This version has a ton of balance changes, 5 full factions, 11 subfactions, 7 scenarios, as well as the new Scenario Generator. In the coming weeks we will be sharing the rules for the Court of the Seven headed Serpent, link below.

Twitter · Aug 17, 2024, 3:22 PM

[tepid steeple]

oh shit!

interested to see all the stuff that's been in development

[sly laurel]

YOO?! 5 factions!

[sleek trail]

Number 6 is coming soon

According to tuomas

[next pilot]

Oh? What six going to be?

[red pulsar]

hello everyone

i'm trying to convince one of my friends to get into wargaming, but he does not at all have the budget to spend on the more well-known stuff

what would be good rulesets for his circumstances, very amicable to kitbashing and shoestring budgets?

along the lines of Bill Making Stuff's Bangarang

[left onyx]

If you're not looking into hex-and-chit, Junk Runners comes to mind

B/c it's designed around print-and-play papercraft models

Article on it
https://www.wargamer.com/junk-runners-papercraft-mecha-warhammer-40k-alternative

Website: https://gamebeard.com/

[red pulsar]

the aspect of building and painting solid miniatures is still important; he's already taken up scuplting and painting polystyrene terrain for his D&D games

though junk runners could be an option

[supple shale]

15mm skirmish can be pretty cheap while still providing a rich modeling and painting experience

I am arguably No End in Sight’s strongest soldier, if a Cold War/modern skirmish system appeals to the audience

There are so, so many great 15mm/1:100 ranges out there

If historicals/moderns are not beloved, I know ol boy does a scifi version called No Stars in Sight

[sand sonnet]

Kitbash a Turnip 28 army.

[compact leaf]

I'll throw my hat in for Heavy gear blitz, if not only because it's the cheapest wargame I currently know how to get into

[supple shale]

yeah Heavy Gear fuckin rules if you can get down w/ “we have votoms at home: the game”

I have been a diligent Heavy Gear freak for ~20 years

[compact leaf]

It's a good game!

[supple shale]

And good models, and just a really neat setting

Life on Terra Nova arguably the greatest ttrpg sourcebook ever printed imho

[native portal]

based taste

[sudden halo]

Heavy Gear isn't terribly cheap though, at least if you play wysiwyg. Aside from the plastic starters it's pretty comparible to Infinity. Both games are not 40k pricey but a full force you're probably looking at $150-200 and infinity is the more proxy friendly of the two.

Battletech can be as cheap or expensive as you want, same with Silent Death if you like space fighters more than mechs. 6mm moderns tend to be super cheap minis too for something like Fistful of TOWs

[supple shale]

Yeah, I’m totally insulated from what Heavy Gear costs today because I’m coasting on my pre-Blitz collection of old style 1:100 gears.

Looking at the DP9 storefront now, that’s about par for a 28mm skirmish game and maybe even on the spendy side if you want a lot of cool metal gears

[sudden halo]

Definitely boutique prices

And not boutique level of casting quality - I don't think the actual miniature making process is Rob's favorite thing. I've still bought plenty because I love the IP and it was my first wargame, but definitely also think they could step up their game.

[supple shale]

I hear the 3d prints are quite nice; definitely thought about copping the new Dark Cobra

My birthday present to me was a CEGA flight group instead, because Rob will still cast those up if you want and I’m also a certified JC enjoyer

[compact leaf]

Have bought some of the new plastics, they're pretty neat (they don't put a buttload of detail into them or anything, but the details that are there are crisp, and the plastic is extremely easy to work with)

[supple shale]

The plastics now are way better than they were when the kickstarter dropped

[compact leaf]

Oh yeah, completely different stuff

[supple shale]

And newer sprues are better designed overall than the north/south army box stuff

Less “here’s a gate right on top of some detail” type shit

[compact leaf]

Yeah
I bought the North vs South box and there's a few instances of that (it's mainly the V-engine parts)

The newer plastics are more posable too, but if you do some cutting you can achieve similar results with the north and south stuff

[supple shale]

That’s the greatest mark in favor of the plastics in general imho

They’re a joy to slice up and repose

[haughty bobcat]

https://youtu.be/n-ZnnSatYrg?si=qXZ2nLm0EIML4XGd

I think the mixing of rulesets made a really cool narrative game

[twin mountain]

If they're into modern military swat cyberpunk tactics stuff like infinity, I think blkout is cheap? https://www.blkoutgame.com/products/2-player-starter-box

It's like 100 bucks for 20 resin models

https://www.blkoutgame.com/cdn/shop/files/DSC04466.jpg?v=1699653276&width=1080

https://www.blkoutgame.com/cdn/shop/files/DSC04316-_2.jpg?v=1699653276&width=1080

https://www.blkoutgame.com/cdn/shop/files/DSC04309-1-a398558e-b08d-4822-8259-9a952e8d2fa7-_3.jpg?v=1699653276&width=1080

Correction: 165$

[red pulsar]

thank you for the suggestion, though i think we have wildly different definitions of "shoestring budget"

[twin mountain]

Haha I'm sorry, I can for sure recommend much much cheaper stuff but I'm like everyone else in that when I think cheap I think printed paper dolls and stuff

It's not clear to me how important good distinct miniatures are

I think it's kinda hard to get cheap miniatures you can play and paint - the cheapest games in that space are the like "here's a ruleset to use any random minis you have lying around" games and like... This

Games where you can field a whole army in like 6 models

18 single piece resin models for 165$ is about 9 dollars per model

9 dollars per very pretty model

I'm not sure how much cheaper you can get and still have a playable game

[red pulsar]

for an idea of the budget in question, when i gave him the typical price for a wh40k kill team box (~£35 for ~9 models, about £4-6 per model) he visibly winced

[twin mountain]

Oof

How much is he paying for like... Paint and hobby supplies and stuff

At that point I feel like he's just running into the raw costs of material

[red pulsar]

unclear: he has a handful of his own paints and brushes that he's been using for polystyrene terrain pieces, and i'm willing to lend some of my own stuff

[twin mountain]

4 pounds is 7 cad... Yeah I dunno. I think that's basically as cheap as it gets

Like at that point maybe you just want to give him some models you own

Any cheaper and we end up in non model wargames

Stuff like Lego or papercraft

[red pulsar]

from my own research, Turnip28 seems promising

in lieu of official miniatures, the core rulebook suggests kitbashing the historical napoleonic figurines sold by Perry Miniatures, which are significantly below the price range expected for this sort of thing

[twin mountain]

Yeahh I think someone else mentioned kitbash games prior

[red pulsar]

on the scale of £2~0.50p per model, even

[twin mountain]

At that point like. I feel like maybe you just want to gift your friend some minis

[red pulsar]

i was thinking about buying him a killteam box for his birthday in november, yes

[twin mountain]

Because it's pretty much scraping the bottom of the barrel for any miniatures that exist at all from any line at all

This stuff partly comes down to aesthetics

[supple shale]

Individually-based 15mm does have the price angle strongly in its favor; even the most gucci 15mm infantry is like $1/mini

[compact leaf]

Also, if your friend has any way to try out games online, I'd try running some small demos

It'd be rather sad to spend money on a game that you're not going to enjoy playing

[twin mountain]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3316399591 found the perfect naval game for pilot net @twin turret @maiden ermine @digital bay

[autumn sun]

something something "egg fleet is another name for pilotnet"

[austere isle]

https://www.ioandaviesjohn.com/mobius well this looks like there is even more there

[twin mountain]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2823196736

[stable pelican]

me when i just heard of "snak28"

[trail fulcrum]

Ahh the sanic

Wargame

[trail fulcrum]

Oooooh

New faction

[compact leaf]

Oh it's those guys!
I remember seeing them teased in a few of the lore texts on product pages

[stable pelican]

i bought enough models to start to play infinity

[compact leaf]

Ooo
What faction did ya get into?

[stable pelican]

nomads

[compact leaf]

Nicee

[supple shale]

Infinity gang

Infinity gang

[tepid steeple]

ooooh

[supple shale]

Riot Grrls get em

Absolute powerhouse fireteam

[sudden halo]

The trans Grrl power core is goated

Also love the iguana. Was my first infinity mini back in N3. Shame it's not terribly good in N4 but we can cross fingers for N5 now

[supple shale]

Riot Grrl ML core is like my benchmark worst-case F2F matchup tbh

[sudden halo]

Played a tournament here in Atlanta last weekend, got 8th of 30 with Spiral Corps.

Game one was a pretty new Starmada player. Game two vs White Banner I made some poor decisions that were salvageable, then the dice destroyed me. Game 3 was against another local playing Onyx on a weird table, I won it pretty big but it was a pretty silly game overall.

Samsa and a unidron core had a plasma fight in a hallway for like 14 orders.

[velvet badge]

Wasn't expecting to hear Samsa in a spiral corps list but then again I forgot they were added to the roster for them

[stable pelican]

made my list

[compact leaf]

Just a reminder that you can totally proxy anything you don't have the exact model of
List looks good though (but I'd switch the wildcat LT for a securitate LT personally)

[orchid tulip]

https://www.goonhammer.com/infinity-n5-previews-discussion/

Some N5 discussion with both confirmed changes and speculations and interpretation of Bostria's words

[orchid tulip]

Does this list seem fine?

[supple shale]

Stigmata is not a budget TAG; two of them is a huge chunk of points and I think leaves you without enough orders to use either to full effect.

I think you’re overinvested in hacking even for BJC, and if a TAG is your big active turn hitter then I think an engineer to keep it in the fight is worth having.

[orchid tulip]

Stigmata is the 3rd cheapest Tag in Nom

Only both Gecko's are cheaper

All other are 60+ pts

And both Zoe and Fiddler are Engineers

[supple shale]

I thought Gecko were cheaper than they are, honestly

That’s the only TAG I typically see doubled up

[sudden halo]

What's the mission? And is it for competitive play or casual games?

I feel like you're going to have a rough time with that list a lot of the time. The Stigs and Oktavia offer similar long range firepower - low burst, high damage. Scary but inconsistent at actually winning gunfights. It's kind of redundant compared to getting an apex gunfighter of some type like a Moira hmg.

[orchid tulip]

Casual play

[sudden halo]

If you're really into the Stigmata, I'd probably go for a similar list in Bakunin, where it costs .5 less SWC and can duo with an engineer.

Fiddler is awesome, but very expensive. With two Stigs and Fiddler you're really really lean on orders, which makes the list really fragile.

Overall, it looks like a really fun list to play if you're opponent is bringing a similarly fun list, but if you're up against a list someone is tooling for a tournament or other competitive play you'll probably have a rough time.

[orchid tulip]

Switched Fiddler to the 1 jackbot variant, 2nd Stig for a Gecko with Mk12 and added a Moderator with a Spitfire

I could also switch Zoe to the FTO variant and add a 3rd moderator to gain a another order

[supple shale]

I think it’s always best practice to at least fill up one group; plus tacaware and the LT order, that puts you at 13

[orchid tulip]

tacaware?

[supple shale]

Tactical Awareness, the skill

[orchid tulip]

So in my case 10 regular, the 2 TacAware Irregular and LT, for 13?

[supple shale]

By my count, yeah

I try to max out with fifteen troopers every time, to give me 15+1 orders (Ariadna)

But my options for generating extra orders per trooper like tacaware or similar skills are pretty limited compared to other factions

[compact leaf]

https://youtu.be/glk-hFS-ubg?si=XYz-aLKZ4rd4Rtfx

Speaking of Infinity

New box looks dope, definitely splitting this with a local JSA player

[tepid steeple]

I should get blackwind now, huh

[orchid tulip]

The JSA player I know also plays PanO

[compact leaf]

If you want the models in there, yeah probably a good idea
If you wanted just one faction I'd try to find a collection set though

[tepid steeple]

I like both the faction

and want a set of terrain and counters n such

so got blackwind and beyond blackwind. sunduqbut my beloved

[compact leaf]

Ah yeah, blackwind is the only wait to get counters rn

[tepid steeple]

ik the models would come out again later but I'm not feeling this new starter so

just personally

and I love haqq

[compact leaf]

Nothing wrong with that lol

[tepid steeple]

mm :)

[compact leaf]

I just hope CB releases some counters you can buy seperately someday

That'd sure be nice

[tepid steeple]

I wanna get into observance and rtf down the line

[compact leaf]

RTF is great fun from what I've heard, don't know much about the observance side of Bakunin though (unless you're referring to the entirety of the faction)

[tepid steeple]

mainly nuns yeah

bakunin does seem cool in general though

[compact leaf]

They get all the weirdos according to the locals who play them

Right now Bakunin is top of the food chain overall for a lot of people

Not a lot of people seem to be trying out observance stuff yet though, since they're still fleshing it out

[orchid tulip]

Played my list today, faced an army with like 19orders....

[compact leaf]

What the heck did you play against???

Obviously it was a swarm list but I am really surprised by that many orders...

[orchid tulip]

It was a 1v2, me on Noms vs PanO+Haqq. Haqq broke it all with the super cheap bike that has smokes, irreg and impetus

[compact leaf]

Oh I see, so you had a list with a limit of 30 troopers?

I've never seen a game with more than one player per side, this sounds really interesting

[orchid tulip]

Haqq was like 4 bikes and 4 other things, PanO was also like 8 units. They played 150pts each while I had 300

[compact leaf]

Ahh

So you had a full list and they each had half a list

[orchid tulip]

Kinda

I did some bad side and set up choices

[sudden halo]

Observance side of Bakunin is super strong but it's basically all 1 wound except for Cenobites so it's a bit fragile.

1v2 rules like that I feel like you'd need to change some things about list building rules. At least allowing 20 units for the single player if both the others get a full cg.

[sudden halo]

Morats can do it pretty regularly. It throws me off so much. Always feel like I need to weather 1-2 more shots and I'm good and my opponent is like okay 7 orders left in group 1.

[orchid tulip]

Gonna try pure Bakunin next time we play

But we'll probs also try to do just 1v1 300pts from now on

[compact leaf]

Oh hey
https://youtu.be/Kufu_BLqksU?si=vsuUwAjzskINJoly

[compact leaf]

Speedball will be able to revive units from unconscious
there is also an implication that you will be able to choose the effect of speedball.

Infinity essentials will be 40$

[orchid tulip]

CC crit makes a bit more sense now

6 mini starting box looks like a good entry point

[compact leaf]

Ye, they're using older sculpts to keep the price as low as possible

I'm fairly certain it's not at all for profit and exists exclusively as an onboarding thing

[orchid tulip]

Also, Senku Troop sculpts slaps, want them for Nom proxies

[tepid steeple]

probably a loss leader yeah

[trail fulcrum]

One idea I'm still gestating is a focused hex and chit

Malayan Emergency

[tepid steeple]

op blackwimd arrived

played the first code 1 teacher mission with my partner and it was fun :)

they slaughtered me but my last man standing did take someone out before he died so