worriedly imagining epic scale being like "8mm heroic" instead of 1:285
#Indie+Alternative Wargaming
sand bobcat
could this all be spurred by battletech having a resurgence? i'm weirdly enheartened
if it was 10mm that would be okay too.
sand sonnet
sand bobcat
it is 400% the kugelpanzer, which is a fun bit of hoax
sleek trail
little guy
sand bobcat
i'm always here for tank destroyers
spring geyser
Are there any wargames that are really good at doing CQC scenarios (like, the whole map is a building)?
sand sonnet
A dense Infinity table can get close.
I think there are smaller “Rainbow 6” scale/focused games but I can’t think of any off the top of my head.
sudden halo
I don't think it's what you're looking for but Demonship is all CQB. Not really a versus wargame though.
sudden halo
I've seen a modern skirmish game that's on like a 2x2 board. I don't remember what it was, the designs looked very "tacticool". I didn't find it on a quick search but it's probably trying to do the thing you're wanting.
orchid leafBOT
There is Downtown Milataraized Zone, but like that's an old FASA game and Harmony Gold Delnda Est
sand bobcat
there are some grody looking "modern guns" 28mm games out there like Incountry, but i have no idea how good they are.
sudden halo
there are some grody looking "modern guns" 28mm games out there like Incountry, ...
Yeah, that was one of the two I was remembering. Really chuddy branding and such. Can't remember the other but it was harder to get a read on, but still questionable enough I put it out of my mind.
Since the rules were free I downloaded them to see if there were any ideas worth taking, and it appears the answer is no. Looks like d10 40k with lite infinity AROs. Not bad necessarily but nothing new and exciting to add to the conversation.
Googling about seems like fivecore comes recommended pretty often as a skirmish toolbox system.
sand bobcat
Oh, five parsecs from home? Isn't that more of a heroes-style game?
sudden halo
Yeah, but how much is really up to how you use the system? At least for five core. I think five parsecs is more specific.
Also seeing people mention Spectre, which looks like what Incountry wants to be while being a lot less chuddy looking too. Still realistic modern spec ops and cop stuff so I imagine the devs and community has more than it's fair share of unpleasantness, but at least their overall presentation feels more milsim wargame nerd than anything else.
Looks like they're going for more of an "action movie" feel than some type of operator fantasy.
spring geyser
"Steiner", short for "Frankensteiner", is a colloquial term for what are more properly referred to as "Engineered Organisms". Rather than being grown from gene-edited embryos, Steiners are "stitched" together from individually-engineered organs and body parts, bypassing the issues with whole-system bioengineering in creating nearly wholly novel creatures. This necessarily prevents Steiners from reproducing naturally - something considered more of a positive than a negative, given the ease with which they can be constructed.
Steiners are frequently used as more self-sufficient alternatives to drones, being able to sustain themselves on minimal maintenance as long as they are provided with the necessary sustenance - sustenance some Steiners can obtain for themselves in the field. They exist in a wide range of military and police applications, from sniffing out explosives, to clearing buildings, to acting as particularly horrifying terror weapons.
More loredumping for Daylight Stars
For, like, a military application steiner, think of something like a mass production eva but quadrupedal like a dog and the size of a person
A lot like the Pegasus tbh, if it had a slavering maw instead of a gun for a face
twin mountain
Are there any wargames that are really good at doing CQC scenarios (like, the wh...
Tannhauser
It invented the tannhauser map format that unmatched uses
spring geyser
I will check that out!
sudden halo
Tannhausers line of sight system is awesome. I'd never use it in one of my games because I like component modularity but it solves so many problems and removes ambiguity.
spring geyser
I have encountered the idea of not actually resolving wounds until attempting to activate a unit or interact with them
spring geyser
Also thinking of doing a wackier "momentum" system in place of my "draw from a bag" system:
- when it's a given player's turn, that player starts with 1 momentum
- certain events gain or lose momentum for the active player (e.g. pinning down an enemy grants momentum, getting pinned down by snapfire loses momentum)
- when the active player runs out of momentum, their turn ends and the next player's turn begins
- repeat this until all units have activated
Perhaps activating a guy will cost momentum
tepid steeple
that sounds fun
I remember hearing abt a game that did something similar where you basically kept going till you failed and then play switched
but this adds a lot of potential for nuance and game design
spring geyser
Also trying to think of a mechanic for bouncing grenades around corners
sleek trail
Also trying to think of a mechanic for bouncing grenades around corners
is scatter a thing
id probably just say "draw a straight line of full distance for the grenade shot, if it hits a wall draw the rest of the line away from the wall from that point"
spring geyser
Hmhm
sand bobcat
on a 2d map, you could go completely fucking feral and enforce the use of a protractor, but i don't think this would be a good solution
sleek trail
unethical
sand bobcat
how about...
- draw a path with line segments that end touching walls, maximum total length = grenade range, end point = your target
- the roll suffers 1 [penalty] for each line segment
- on a miss, resolve scatter from the end point of the first line segment
complicated paths make the attack harder, and you're discouraged from having lots of grenade movement past the thrower's LOS because if the grenade makes a turn really close to the thrower, then there's a good chance that the thrower will just drop a grenade on themselves
it won't entirely enforce realistic grenade movement but it's more straightforward than...most other things I can think of
i think it's interesting that there's room in game mechanics to encourage "realistic" behaviour by just overestimating penalties/player risks for things you predict to be unrealistic
this would also slot in perfectly well with a grenade-cooking mechanic because trying too hard to get clever with grenade cooking will lead to the grenade scattering close to the thrower and immediately exploding
sleek trail
id probably limit this mechanic to a faction, or give it very sparsely to units
because its a lot to resolve
spring geyser
id probably just say "draw a straight line of full distance for the grenade shot...
yeah, I was thinking of doing a variation of this, I'm just trying to figure out how to avoid doing very silly, illogical bounces
that doesn't get as ridiculous as "use a protractor"
sleek trail
yeah, I was thinking of doing a variation of this, I'm just trying to figure out...
honestly
let em exist
its a future setting
spring geyser
hmhm
sleek trail
justify it by saying that onboard computers calculate ideal bounce angle
spring geyser
i do want to include this as like, an ordinary thing, because it is actually super important to how grenades are used irl
sleek trail
fair
spring geyser
rather, a thing characteristic of grenades
sleek trail
i think a simpler version is probably better then
spring geyser
esp. since I intend to make the shrapnel radius of a frag grenade realistic (something like 12" on a table)
sleek trail
compared to barcode's more complicated take
but also im very gamist in my wargames opinions. i want stuff to resolve reasonably snappilly
spring geyser
yeah I'm trying to strike a good medium between fast, fun gameplay and realistically representing the systems involved (it's hard SF!)
but IRL the shrapnel radius of a grenade is actually only slightly smaller than the range a soldier can throw it
better be in cover when you throw a grenade!
(and this is part of why bouncing it off walls is actually an important part of grenade use irl)
sleek trail
but IRL the shrapnel radius of a grenade is actually only slightly smaller than ...
to be fair in a scifi setting this can be fudged
like grenades that work like claymores or something
spring geyser
hmhm
i think i might include something of the sort actually, a grenade that just explodes directionally when an enemy is nearby, pick a target and resolve it as a kind of attack against them
trail fulcrum
finally got around to seeing Magnagothica
holy shit
inspiring me to make a whole ass board for it
hahahaha
flat crow
#1164643959721693184 lol
autumn sun
sand bobcat
ew, dwarves
https://www.manticgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/epic-warpath-units-1024x576.webp at least these guys look normal
think that's a 20mm base?
sand bobcat
i do wish like...any company would pick explicit scales for their stuff.
i have a feeling they're waiting to see whatever GW's new game is going to be & then match that scale.
flat crow
ew, dwarves
flat crow
https://www.manticgames.com/news/epic-warpath-the-core-structure-of-an-epic-scal...
im down to see what theyll do for some epic style space dorfs
i forget is this based on any existing stuff they have or new stuff?
sand bobcat
Just how teeny are these little guys? Well, you need to stack up four of them, one on top of the other, to even come close to the height of a standard Warhammer 40,000 or The Horus Heresy Space Marine model.
oh my god please just state a number in milimetres
autumn sun
i forget is this based on any existing stuff they have or new stuff?
It's based on their existing wargame, Warpath.
autumn sun
Funny enough they were working on this before GW announced HH Epic and put out a blog like a day or later and went "so hey haha uuuh..."
flat crow
lol
sand bobcat
While I admire the attention to detail in these models — which come with alternate weapons, troops poking their heads out of hatches, and even tiny decals — I tired of building them almost immediately. Do we really need to spend an afternoon affixing all 40 individual smokestacks to the ten Rhinos in the transport company when each of those smokestacks are smaller than a grain of rice? Just mold them together with the side of the hull. Or — I don’t know — mold the entire thing as a single piece so I can get on with the painting and the playing of the game!
it's like this guy doesn't actually enjoy scale modelling >:v
autumn sun
> Just how teeny are these little guys? Well, you need to stack up four of them,...
Yeeeaaaah that annoys me too.
flat crow
wait is called warpath or firefight?
sand bobcat
(it is also not 40 smokestacks, there are less than 40 parts in the tank kit)
sleek trail
putting the little things together is part of the fun
autumn sun
> While I admire the attention to detail in these models — which come with alter...
I sssssorta get his complaint? Because you did not have to assemble a lot with the old Epic line, where rhinos were single pieces.
Like at a very tiny scale it's kind of a pain in the ass, depending on how its done.
sand bobcat
this tank is over 5cm long >:u
fallen rune
> While I admire the attention to detail in these models — which come with alter...
Do we really need to spend an afternoon affixing all 40 individual smokestacks to the ten Rhinos in the transport company
Hell yeah
sleek trail
this tank is over 5cm long >:u
what kit?
fallen rune
Looks like a HH baneblade?
sand bobcat
no snap fit for 6mm kits 😔
autumn sun
Eeeeh no more miserable than assembling a 40k rhino.
flat crow
like some of those parts are literally the size of rice
sleek trail
alignment might be hard but it looks fine to me
flat crow
Eeeeh no more miserable than assembling a 40k rhino.
slim i have shaky hands
sleek trail
just have a magnifying glass and a contrasting surface
sand bobcat
flat crow
ill be real the statement "magnifying glass" has pushed it directly into unreasonable
fallen rune
Only part which really gives me pause is the tracks since they’ll look weird without a fair amount of care
sleek trail
yeah
autumn sun
slim i have shaky hands
I forget sometimes you do, my b.
sand bobcat
btw unde did you end up assembling stuff since i left
flat crow
but yeah
fallen rune
Can probably use texture paint to mud em up to cover up alignment issues though
flat crow
ive not had the luxury of time or space for it alas
fallen rune
If it’s anything like old epic that’ll just be rules accurate :p
left onyx
> Just how teeny are these little guys? Well, you need to stack up four of them,...
Probably.... 8-ish?
sleek trail
honestly though when 3d printed less piece assembly stuff becomes more common for stuff like this i will miss sprues
but like if i understand correctly resin prints would be able to put something like this together as one piece, no?
sand bobcat
i'm still not convinced it'll ever take over
flat crow
i mean in cases of their not being like assembly options i dont see the point of sprues
sand bobcat
3d prints have sprues, they're just attached to the model at random points instead of holding together a sheet of parts
tepid steeple
the rhinos do have 4 individual smokestacks each
flat crow
like does the legion BB even have options
fallen rune
If it’s anything like old epic that’ll just be rules accurate :p
(The whole baneblade family sucked in old-epic)
autumn sun
Probably.... 8-ish?
Old Epic was around 6mm, and these are noted to be slightly larger so yeah probably 8mm.
sleek trail
i'm still not convinced it'll ever take over
i think the big companies arent going to adopt it as standard but the orbiters will
tepid steeple
I watched a build vlog yesterday haha
sand bobcat
before GW popularized giant infantry, reading glasses/etc. and tweezers were how you put together model kits. It's nice when it's easier but like...i think it's downright unfair that wargame culture, ultimately being GW Game Culture at this point, now feels that assembling smaller models is beyond consideration
tiny models trade some physical accessibility for massive cost accessibility
sleek trail
and space saving
tepid steeple
I mean if it was gw wouldn't have just put out a game with tiny tanks that you build lmao
it's not like the rhinos were multipart the first times round
sand bobcat
space saving is ultimately also a cost accessibility thing as people are able to afford homes of decreasings ize
left onyx
Then there's like 2mm Napoleonic gaming where you have a speckle of a rifleman and painting it is like "pants color, jacket color, hat color"
tepid steeple
or that they're against ever reducing detail, like they did on the infantry
fallen rune
This is probably bias cause it applied to me but I feel that a... sizeable contingent of the wargames community these days views modeling and such as an obstacle to being able to play so these older school model setups are pretty bad
sleek trail
i hope they make epic scale orks so i can have a speed freeks army thats not fucking massive
fallen rune
Ofc the part I saw as a necessary evil was painting, I like putting together little kits
sleek trail
This is probably bias cause it applied to me but I feel that a... sizeable conti...
i think its approaching something like a schism, even
sand bobcat
fundamentally i think this hobby has to accept that modelling is part of the hobby
otherwise we're spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars on very non-portable board games
left onyx
There's a 40k YTer I watched a few vids of and my recs have showed me him getting into Gunpla and seeing the difference in assembling those
tepid steeple
people who don't like building should send models to me and I will build them for you. for fun
my partner sees building as just something you have to do to get to the steps they are actually interested in and it like makes me dumb happy that I get to build their stuff lmao
sleek trail
one of the reasons i'm a bit hesitant about games that use grid primarily is that they really don't need models at all
tepid steeple
and then they're happy cause I'm happy which is gay
sleek trail
minitures become an ancilliary and thus useless component. decoration
tepid steeple
and likewise I'm about to get into 3d printing and I'm probably just gonna focus on printing parts and not models cause why would I want the computer to do it for me
sleek trail
yeah
sand bobcat
people like pretty board games but they're usually not, like, visually realist, if you get what i mean
left onyx
minitures become an ancilliary and thus useless component. decoration
The only mechanical component of minatures compared to having a chit w/ the necessary info is True Line Of Sight, isn't it?
And TLOS is usually a mess
tepid steeple
and when you think about it even a 3d shape is simply information 🥺
I think the thing about true line of sight is. is I just wanna bend down next to the table and see if I can see them. that's all it is
sleek trail
im not a tlos proponent
tepid steeple
competetive games can use sillhouette stuff idc
sleek trail
but i think silhouette systems encourage models more
sand bobcat
imo: in a game without TLOS, the miniatures serve to further the sense of "the crap happening in the rules is happening in this diorama"
sleek trail
like are models ever strictly neccesary? no
tepid steeple
the minatures are the point
sleek trail
but theres modalities that encourage or discourage
tepid steeple
I would argue
sand bobcat
yes, they're not necessary, but much like the game itself, the models exist to add to the simulation of What's Happening
tepid steeple
at least sometimes. different strokes n all
fallen rune
flos rules also usually respect miniature stuff to an extent
sleek trail
i think board gamier modalities discorage models
fallen rune
Like the older 40k/FoW woods/area terrain rules
sleek trail
im kinda in the middle
sand bobcat
the other nice thing about smaller models: you can finish them to a Nice Standard much faster
tepid steeple
I mean yeah I'm not as extremist as all that
sleek trail
anyways my other issues with grids is that you cant really do size differences
which are very important in games to me
tepid steeple
but it's still overall where I lean
tepid steeple
one thing I will say; underworlds is a grid system and the models for that are amazing
sand bobcat
i gotta get back to chores but i will say: part of my current Game Design Project is trying very hard to make good on what Models are Good For
tepid steeple
and I guess specifically there's a pretty big variety in size
sleek trail
for example, maleghast has two size scales, and tyrants can only ever be four times the size of normal units
sand bobcat
i had to abstract the third dimension but...
sleek trail
and maleghast rukes
rules
but like, infinity has a bunch of different sizes for things
tepid steeple
airfix lisenced a game where you you had spring loaded launchers for shooting I think
sleek trail
and shapes, too!
tepid steeple
that's another mechanical-physical element lol
fallen rune
one thing I will say; underworlds is a grid system and the models for that are a...
Underworlds is a real odd duck of a wargame but it is cool
tepid steeple
it had great terrain though
fallen rune
And the models fucking rule
fallen rune
Honestly tlos or not I think cool terrain is such a big factor for that kind of game
fallen rune
Like this is just neuron activating
sleek trail
or am i thinking of a different underworlds
fallen rune
(From Gary Chalk on Twitter)
spring geyser
yeah like i noted before, the big problem with grids is that terrain has to be made for them
sleek trail
terrain is so often neglected in convos about wargames
fallen rune
Sepulchural Guards are dope
tepid steeple
terrain is so neglected it makes me mad
sleek trail
i have a set but the big claymore guys sword broke
fallen rune
Terrain is fairly often neglected in wargames in general haha
sleek trail
and i have no idea how to fix it
spring geyser
terrain is so often neglected in convos about wargames
yeah I was gonna dedicate a whole page in mine to pointing out "THIS GAME ASSUMES A WHOLE LOT OF TERRAIN"
tepid steeple
it's one of the things I like about infinity just in terms of putting the terrain in the box and stuff
sleek trail
the spear guy isn't broken thankfully
Infinity does terrain super well
god i love that stupid, stupid game
fallen rune
I think wargames should be more explicit with board setup
tepid steeple
but even then it's like. you make your game based on this element and yet there's kinda a refusal to ever talk about it
terrain setup literally makes or breaks games
but it's always so vague
spring geyser
specifically pointing out:
- you should not be able to see most of the opposing edge of the board from the other side
- terrain should be spaced so that units can move from one side of the board to the other without leaving cover, provided they at least sometimes dash
sleek trail
but even then it's like. you make your game based on this element and yet there'...
there is a divide between terrain styles in europe and america
for infinity
and its extremely funny
because it basically makes it two entirely different games being played
fallen rune
Something that I really dig about Kill Team is how it has pre-designed scenario boards which are usually played in comp play
tepid steeple
yeah!
sleek trail
kill team deserves to have a lot of influence in design culture going forward imo
i think it makes a lot of good choices
tepid steeple
underworlds also kinda does this with terrain boards you bring being like. a signficant part of gameplay haha
so they get rotated along with everything else
spring geyser
my only problems with kill team are where it's a bit too wedded to 40k
fallen rune
That's a mood, I like its rules much more than mainline 40k's
sleek trail
i think the boards are also a little small but also i cut my teeth on 4x4 infinity boards
fallen rune
I haven't played Infinity but I agree that KT boards are pretty compressed
sleek trail
so im a bit broken on that front
tepid steeple
the first season of kill team each had a 9 mission campaign of preset boards too
fallen rune
I think its partially a balance thing because some KTs would be such ass on larger boards
sleek trail
i mean board size is something games are designed aroud
and kt is absolutely designed around its small board size
it works for it
tepid steeple
300 pt infinity is probably a little bit bigger in scale than kill team model count wise
not sure
tepid steeple
mm
sleek trail
for 300 pts
fallen rune
Yeah it is
tepid steeple
I guess it's more the floor that's lower for kt
fallen rune
KT is 4-14 models and doesn't have multiple game sizes (but no one playing competitively brings less than 6)
sleek trail
technically the limit is 15 order generating units which if you're a fucking prick means you can bring like 20 models
tepid steeple
if you were playing a 6 man team in infinity you're probably playing a smaller game
one thing I like about kt and infinity and underworlds as well is like. relatively low round count
4/3/3 respectively
dunno why just feels really different
sleek trail
low rounds means indidual turns are more impactful
fallen rune
Also they're real high octane rounds usually
tepid steeple
mm
sleek trail
infinity especially because of orders has you acting so much
fallen rune
I remember playing 40k in 4/5e and while the game was 5-7 turns long the first 1-2 turns could easily be both sides just pushing models towards one another for a bit before anything much happened
tepid steeple
I guess it kinda cuts out the awkward early maneuvering and late cleanup rounds
yeah exactly
sleek trail
moves the first step into deployment
basically
which does mean those games are generally won and lost on deployment alone
or at least
can be won or lost
on deployment
i played a game of SW legion for the first time recently
and it felt like deployment was way less a factor in that one
tepid steeple
legion is cool
sleek trail
though that might have been cause of how new i was
i don't like the fantasy-flight-ness of it
fallen rune
I know deployment is a really big deal in KT cause of infinite range good guns - is that different in SW legion?
sleek trail
i don't like the fantasy-flight-ness of it
by this i mean all the ancillary cards and upgrades and also the fact that range segments for shooting were different than range segments for movement
i did like how the movement widget had a pivot in it
to formalize turning. might see if that can be stolen
fallen rune
Oh huh
sleek trail
i suppose its the same as "you must move in straight line segments"
fallen rune
Like the weird turn things in X-Wing but for on the ground?
sleek trail
was you only move your unit leader
yeah this rules
tepid steeple
and then you can just arrange your guys as you like in range of them
sleek trail
Like the weird turn things in X-Wing but for on the ground?
no theres literally a hinge
tepid steeple
more like armada yeah
sleek trail
you have three movement widgets for moving 1-2-3 (which correspond to 3, 5, and 7 inches respectively) and each one in the middle has a hinge
and curved ends that fit to bases
sleek trail
its nice cause it solves the curves problem
sleek trail
i did not like that part because i had to keep asking for them instead of just using my tape measure
tepid steeple
cause they have notches in the front and back of their bases
they can only turn by moving
sleek trail
also, again, the distances for movement being distinct from the distances for range i did not like at all
tepid steeple
and then speeders have a free mandatory move at the start of their turn plus the option of moving again
sleek trail
and then speeders have a free mandatory move at the start of their turn plus the...
yeah this is really cool
fallen rune
How does the initiative work?
tepid steeple
basically
fallen rune
I'm often unimpressed with initiative systems haha
tepid steeple
top of each round you're placing a command card
fallen rune
(That is to say, a lot of them are roll offs, and roll offs are lame)
left onyx
size differences have far less *nuance*
I could imagine a game where the biggest unit is 1x1 but most things are smaller and you can fit as many in a grid square as the bases fit (would probably want to keep a sane common denominator for fractional bases but not necessarily)
tepid steeple
command card determines how many units you get to give order tokens to
sleek trail
I could imagine a game where the biggest unit is 1x1 but most things are smaller...
thats basically just a 1x1 that can share space, though
tepid steeple
also determines your initiative bid; a 1 pip card only orders one unit but beats a card with more pips
left onyx
And then terrain follows the same rules, it can reduce the amount of available space in these squares and exclude 1x1s entirely
Also yeah it's a 1x1 with limited space sharing
sand bobcat
i do like TLOS for terrain, but I am cutting it out of my own design project because the entire Y axis is abstracted
tepid steeple
anything not given an order in the command phase has to wait until a matching order comes up in a random pile so like. if you have three troops and a vehicle without orders you have to wait for the vehicle order to come out to activate it
sleek trail
this lets you do some funny card counting
sand bobcat
TLOS for terrain in heavy gear feels fantastic
tepid steeple
oh yeah and the command deck building is 2 of each 1/2/3 pip cards
plus a backup 4 pip card
sleek trail
anything not given an order in the command phase has to wait until a matching or...
or something fun like only activating my vehicle and if thats the only non-troop i have basically just getting to activate all my other units normally
fallen rune
anything not given an order in the command phase has to wait until a matching or...
Ok that's pretty neat
tepid steeple
ye
sleek trail
which feels like an exploit in that fun, kinda clever way
tepid steeple
and then a further twist on that is like
sleek trail
one of those things that should always be in a game
tepid steeple
diffferent factions and different leader types have their own custom command cards
left onyx
Gonna make a slay-the-spire inspired wargame where each unit has 6 possible actions (sometimes repeats) where you get to roll X dice and choose Y of those to execute
sleek trail
yeah, in the demo game i played i played maul
tepid steeple
which might activate less units than their pips normally would but give bonus
sleek trail
and hes super into just activating himself
tepid steeple
anakin's deal is that each of command cards you play he gets more and more buff
left onyx
(You could also do this with cards instead of dice but a bunch of individual decks is messier)
sand bobcat
https://i.imgur.com/mij0a7m.jpg like, this rounded building has rich Gameplay Implications because it's hard to get full cover from it but it'll almost always block some LOF, granting you cover. It's also a pretty major movement obstacle because it's pretty big as far as the unit movement goes.
tepid steeple
but he is also gives the opponent a card that lets them once per game stall him because he's fallin to the dark side
also the wookiee command cards all have names like this and it's fun
sleek trail
as much as i think most of the card-based design gives you way too many exceptiosn and unique cases you need to care about
i will admit its a profoundly excellent source of comedy
and theme in general
with the pictures
tepid steeple
han solo gets a 0-pip 'han shot first' card
twin mountain
yeah, I was thinking of doing a variation of this, I'm just trying to figure out...
For a single bounce there's a very simple geometric trick. Draw straight through the wall to a point beyond it, then mirror that point across the wall back
You don't need a protractor
Just throw pretending the wall isn't there and use the wall as a mirror
sand bobcat
👀 I think I need a diagram.
This is what I interpreted, which naturally I assume is wrong.
tepid steeple
no that's right
sand bobcat
What information does this give you, though?
twin mountain
No that's wrong
twin mountain
You draw a straight line, perpendicular to the wall, until you find the point exactly the same distance on the other side of the wall
See that d line?
You're just calculating the real location from the virtual image
Just flip the location back over the wall
sand bobcat
oh, this is to determine the path when bouncing off of the wall, I see
twin mountain
No diagonal lines and angle calculations necessary
sand bobcat
nice. probably the most straightforward this could get
fairly hard to do precisely with physical objects but that's measure-and-move's fault, lol
i bet you could easily add onto the tannhauser map system to indicate grenade bounce opportunities
spring geyser
For a single bounce there's a very simple geometric trick. Draw straight through...
Oh that's a way easier way of describing it than "reflect across the wall's normal vector"
sleek trail
Thinking i might work on a neo-gorkamorka
And put my more high concept stalker-y stuff on a shelf until im a better game designer
Basically build the core of the vehicle system with a neo-gorkamorka
And then work on the weird and interesting game with the same vehicle system but with different dudes mechanics
Easier to think about ork actions than tactical dudes acting tactically
sand bobcat
scale: established
sand bobcat
https://i.imgur.com/WPgpXEx.png mech readout: started
sand bobcat
https://i.imgur.com/bZsB7LM.png reorganizing the crit table. specific numbers on specific facings can be destroyed, which leads to More Problems. Destroying that number destroys whatever component was assigned to that slot. Most components can be destroyed without destroying the slot itself.
L: Having Left Cover from the attacker's perspective leads to any hits here hitting the cover instead.
M: Having Motive (lower-half) Cover from the attacker's perspective leads to any hits here hitting the cover instead.
R: Having Right Cover from the attacker's perspective leads to any hits here hitting the cover instead.
(when a number is destroyed, you put a dot in there or cross it out. the "diagonal" text organization should help generate space for this)
sleek trail
Hell yeah
sudden halo
That's a dangol chart I tell you what. Interested to see how it shakes out. Reminds me of Warmachine health grids a little.
sand bobcat
thinking about heavy gear's cruft problem.
Heavy Gear followed Battletech's lead on describing mechs like the military vehicles that they are. I think they went a little too far in terms of "worldbuilding" in that there are a ton of suboptimal pointless things running around. It works better in Battletech because battletech has very explicit availability for everything and a much physically larger universe. Together they enforce the presence of the suboptimal stuff.
In Heavy Gear it's like, every time the equivalent of the US designs and cancels something (imagine, say, the T95), they make 5000 of them anyway and sell them to Indiana's state troopers.
battletech also details individual mechs a lot more than heavy gear does, which leaves a lot more room for designs to be different even if they aren't practically much different.
the t95 is a bad point of comparison, even, because the t95 is more interestingly different from a late-ww2 tank destroyer than any given "outcompeted" Gear design.
sudden halo
Heavy Gear's level of detail in the world building is pretty good on the RPG side where the cruft is character to a region or force. On the wargame side though it is pretty excessive - at the blitz level of detail you can almost just file the serials off everything and do units as classes, Trooper Gear, Strike Gear, FS Gear, Recon Gear, Stealth Gear and pick weapon loadouts and not have too mucb change.
So all the profiles are pretty excessive and make others obsolete, not even getting into expanded content where the problem compounds.
tepid steeple
where does this stuff get revealed
also
aaa cute
and I like this photo of her model a lot more than the store one
but yeah I guess iguana just stays superior
sleek trail
szalamandra is the best one
iguana i dont like cause the HI guy who pops out doesnt have enough continuity with the tag
tepid steeple
thats fair yeah
sudden halo
I think the iguana guy has a lot of similar parts, they're just not quite the right size.
I like the new lizards combat heels but not that it's got a gun and not gun hands
sudden halo
I'm okay with it not having the arms. Looks like the hunch on the back is probably where the pilot goes.
sand bobcat
what's with the new iguana's single cubic shoulder...
also yeah i never liked Exposed Pilot Arms....that's asking for problems 👀
sudden halo
Yeah, but it's an anime reference so it's important 
I think the shoulder cube is one of the secondary weapons.
The mines or rockets. Guessing mines since it's pointed kind of downwards.
sand bobcat
stupid answer: it's a wildly out-of-scale Cube (like the ones people have)
sudden halo
Finished my test model for my JSA. Wanted to get away from the really imperial patriotic look like the box art, so I looked up some traditional kimono color pairs and really liked the salmony pink and blue, and its kind of close to the Ikari company scheme if i wanted to flex into them.
#1171221956775907408 message
flat crow
The fact the background uses I think one of the photos from jwst is great Ngl
next pilot
https://vxtwitter.com/TrenchCrusade/status/1729927477513089312?t=JUzqXJXoxWu8ssZ...
wait trench crusade is getting a game?
and it's a skirmish game
yesssss
flat crow
yeah
thats what it was from the start
its just production has taken a long long time
next pilot
really, I thought it was just a fun art project he was doing
flat crow
it was i think that super early on but it quickly attracted people in the mordheim space and went from there
i have a pretty keen interest in it due to really liking the setup and etc
next pilot
yeah, I really like trench crusade so I'm quite excited for this
next pilot
I want this faction
judging by the FAQ, the sultanate of the iron wall will be one of the factions
"Which factions are playable in the Trench Crusade?
Thus far the Warbands of Principality of New Antioch, the Heretic Legion, Sultanate of
the Iron Wall, Cult of the Black Grail and the Trench Pilgrims have been announced."
flat crow
i forget which one my fave art theyve done is from but its the lady with the heat warhammer
its great
this one
they also dunked on a racist in the comments which is nice
next pilot
I'm probably going to go either cult of the black grail or heretic legions
flat crow
antioch and sultanate visually appeal to me the most atm
assuming that hammer lady is antioch
not sure though
next pilot
I haven't seen enough of them to get a really strong sense of their aesthetics, but antioch seems to cover their faces less, while the pilgrims do it a lot
spring geyser
Slightly weird rule I'm thinking of going with:
A given figure is said to "occupy" a zone around its base; this is the figures Occupancy. For most figures, this is an area of up to 1" from the edge of their base; Vehicles, however, only treat the physical limits of their base as their Occupancy.
This represents that real soldiers on a real battlefield are not static figures, and are more or less constantly making small movements, such as leaning around corners to fire; the fact that Line of Sight can be drawn from any point in one figures Occupancy to any point in another figure's Occupancy follows from this!
fallen rune
Hmm, I get the idea with this but I'm not completely sold on the gameplay applications of it
It seems like it'd lead to a lot of extra measuring for nearly the same outcomes
spring geyser
I think 1" is fairly intuitive given it's roughly the diameter of the base of the figures in this game
The idea is to let soldiers lean around corners to shoot and stuff
sand bobcat
It's really dependent on the rest of the rules, I'd say. Like, Infinity gets a lot done with very forgiving LOF rules and then just letting people shoot during their movement.
A routine manuever is "peek 1mm, shoot, go back behind cover". Stuff like that.
spring geyser
Hmhm
sand bobcat
"Leaning around corners" is basically abstracted by this and so on.
spring geyser
One concern I have with that is allowing soldiers to avoid retaliation by moving out of LoS
autumn sun
1" zone around the base works well for melee stuff but I'm not sure how that'd work out with shooting around corners.
sand bobcat
It may also help to like, sketch out some situations on paper to see how the intended rule might change things. I did something similar when choosing LOF rules for my game.
spring geyser
Hmhm
sand bobcat
Infinity sort of has issues with people hiding behind full cover immediately after each shot, but the problem there is that reaction fire is asymmetric instead of symmetric. So the whole game is full of people laying Prone behind cement barriers and shit.
fallen rune
One concern I have with that is allowing soldiers to avoid retaliation by moving...
KT largely avoids this by making people fully complete their movement without breaking up stuff by actions, so JSJ 1 way shooting is only possible with certain 3 action models
spring geyser
Yeah, though this doesn't allow for that kind of "lean around corner" movement
fallen rune
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but isn't it basically the same but measured from a point 1" different?
tepid steeple
Slightly weird rule I'm thinking of going with:
> A given figure is said to "occ...
I think this is what bases are already for is my thinking
to an extent
sand bobcat
something you could also do is like...
- by default, any amount of LOS means you can shoot and be shot at.
- you need to be able to see at least half of a model in the Hiding state to shoot at them. They can't shoot back
that way, a guy at a corner normally actively fighting/fighting back, and a guy a corner Hiding is trying to take cover as much as possible (and thus can't fight back/React)
fallen rune
Hiding vs fighting states are great for smaller scale games especially yeah
sand bobcat
god i could go on and on about infinity lol
fallen rune
Also opens up a whole set of mechanics about models who can manipulate their fight/hide state in unusual ways
sleek trail
god i could go on and on about infinity lol
Its good in bad ways and bad in good ways
Endlessly charming
trail fulcrum
twin mountain
Slightly weird rule I'm thinking of going with:
> A given figure is said to "occ...
I think this is a bad idea strictly because los calculations would then involve three separate lines with measurements
You'd measure to a point near your unit, measure a line to another point, measure from that point to the enemy unit
Not only is it really involved it makes los into a puzzle and not a simple calculation
Do they have line of sight? Hmmm lets check multiple little angles
sand bobcat
agreed, it really expands the space of LOS stuff you have to check
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wx8XaBcW1gMXZTHPo_ogTdIBMn5SZ6GX/view?usp=sharing
crosspost from GDD: a lil preview of Conventional Vehicles
spring geyser
yeah, I didn't say so but last night I was already planning to take the suggestion of just do "from any part of base to any part of base" and if people want to lean around corners they can have the base partially stick out
sudden halo
Got em in the goop! Do you have an idea of how you want to paint them up?
Did my next model for my JSA. I need to pick up the pace but the Ryuken-9 is one of the standout units in my experience so far so I took some extra time.
#1171221956775907408 message
trail fulcrum
Got em in the goop! Do you have an idea of how you want to paint them up?
Yeah just repainting them because there scuffed to hell
sand bobcat
having the usual "I wanna do a hobby hangout thing but I don't know how to make it happen" feelings
sand bobcat
went and painted anyway 😎
flat crow
this model is neat
sand sonnet
Good news, Warmachine has a whole faction of them.
next pilot
There still struggling after their full game refresh
They definitely have sone cool stuff though
trail fulcrum
Good news, Warmachine has a whole faction of them.
they're also wrestling louisiana lizards IIRC
sand sonnet
Mostly! Though the person most responsible for that doesn’t work at Privateer Press anymore.
next pilot
I don’t think the bayou lizards are in the game anymore
sand sonnet
They are.
Not the full model range yet though.
They're still working on backfilling Unlimited models.
They're not in Prime right now I don't believe.
hollow crypt
Does warmachine exist again?
sand sonnet
MKIV is gaining steam as new stuff comes out and old stuff is filled back in.
It never stopped existing but there was a lot of shuffling things as the edition changed.
sleek trail
Yeah lessgoooo
sleek trail
Playing split groups like this is gutsy
Though with oss you have a lot of flex
I think some kind of aro piece for the link is missing
I would feel pretty safe pushing the link with something shooty
The list is low on aro overall
I like the split groups, id def suggest more aro but im not sure where to put it
Ooh you can take a samekh rebot as a wildvard
trail fulcrum
I think some kind of aro piece for the link is missing
Yeah but the link fireteam is kinda leaning on the
the HMG with fireteam bonus
sleek trail
Yeah but its super vulnerable offturn and you dont have much board control
trail fulcrum
fair
a HMG gun bot?
then?
cut dart to add that and some friends in?
total reaction HMG
thing
sleek trail
Hm
Honestly more repeaters might be better
Thinking about it
I think generally the problem will be taking and holding positions, as well as preventing rambos up the board
So anything that slows that down
sudden halo
You don't really have any big guns that fight armor well so you're really reliant on hacking. I think I agree with Gecko that leaning into repeaters might be it? I'm not familiar with OSS/Aleph
Here's my Bakunin list I think I'm running this week
If not that one, it would be this one. Friend and I restricted ourselves to two lists for our next 3 games, ITS style. Most of the time I run a Riot Grrl core but I wanted to try more of the nun side of things
tepid steeple
nuns with guns :)
sleek trail
bumping this so we do not become forgotten!
clear shadow
Does anyone have any advice for convincing your friends who play 40k to play other games?
sand sonnet
Depends on why they play 40k.
You're honestly better trying to build up interest around whatever game you want to play in a general sense in your local area and see who shows up for it.
sudden halo
If it's your personal friends that you want to enjoy other games with, what worked for me (sort of) is to play GW specialist games with them, probably try several so they're used to looking at different games different ways. Then find segues, especially from things they don't like in gw games to run demos of other stuff.
native portal
Does anyone have any advice for convincing your friends who play 40k to play oth...
Get all the shit yourself so they can try it
People do not generally build a whole thing to see if they like a game
sudden sundial
Bandidos
left onyx
Get all the shit yourself so they can try it
Yeah AIUI the most reliable method is you get 2-3 armies yourself and let them pick one to borrow
It can be like minimum size lists but asking someone to opt into the hobby side first is the hardest sell
This is honestly true for 40k too but with 40k you can show up to a club meeting and there’s 6 players with a dozen armies between them
sudden sundial
You make a good arguement.
trail fulcrum
sleek trail
Turnip!
tepid steeple
neep28?
tepid steeple
trail fulcrum
Neeep
sleek trail
Based and neeppilled
umbral prawn
I've been told by @twin mountain to post this here: I'm making a game (somewhere in between a wargame and an RPG) called Night Sky Falling. It's a game about battles between fleet of spacecraft, and the stories of the people who crew them. You can find the latest rules here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19IPHFOTpehbtucQLD6PkC4S0lmY8mhNuaeMm0zcAWog/edit?usp=sharing
Playtesting is occurring on the 7th fleet server, drop in and ask for the Night Sky Falling role: https://discord.gg/sezbWNXH
next pilot
ooooh
past pebble
need the sultanate faction so badly
flat crow
theyre cool
tbh all the factions are cool and like their own kind of gribbly weirdos which im big into
sudden halo
I liked the idea of the 15mm game. Wonder if theyll stay in that scale or go to 28s
autumn sun
Given their previous licensed content, probably 28mm.
sleek trail
how well does halo speak to faction diversity?
i only know of 3 factions in the game lore
next pilot
That’s what I was thinking
sudden halo
Yeah. There's a few splits you could make to stretch it out though.
trim quiver
I'm worried they'll do Insurrectionists really dirty with their units
next pilot
A skirmish game focused on multi part spartan squads could be cool
trail fulcrum
Skirmish game with like ODST, Insurrection, Spartans,
Tempted to like the rebel infantry ahhaha
sudden halo
I really hope not. I can only have so many types of terrain and 28-32mm is already so big that it takes forever to paint.
trail fulcrum
Please just be a skirmish game
sudden halo
Skirmish or 15mm or less. Nobody got time (or money) for mass battle games in the big scales
autumn sun
I've thought about how a wargame could do FPS-style PVP combat, and in such a way that it could replicate the experience of frantic shooting and movement.
Not sure how you could do it though.
sudden halo
That was what the Apex Legends board game was going for. I haven't played it though
sand sonnet
There’s a board game called Frag that was a similar idea. It was okay iirc
tepid steeple
frag is pretty fun
sand sonnet
Yeah I remember thinking it was just slower paced than I wanted it to be, but I also haven't played it in probably fifteen years?
sleek trail
smashy
sand bobcat
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_jVLPvN4HoqY/S7ZYl45SjNI/AAAAAAAAJvE/BrJJ6fol_6w/s1600/basing+again+16.jpg choose your fighter
i've lost my optimism for tabletop wargames but I do still love seeing and making very small models
sudden halo
The tiniest are always fun!
cursive siren
what other good, preferably sci-fi, skirmish games are out there that are like, similar or a little less in complexity than kill team, but not kill team.
umbral prawn
Try this one https://docs.google.com/document/d/19IPHFOTpehbtucQLD6PkC4S0lmY8mhNuaeMm0zcAWog/edit?usp=drivesdk
cursive siren
shit i should give battlegroup a look.
ok looking through night sky, and i just love the idea of phase space
because its literally a phase space, like the data visualization technique, which fucks
umbral prawn
Phase space was originally Winged's idea, and I expanded on it
NSF play testing is happening on the 7th fleet server if you'd like to join
cursive siren
cool.
autumn sun
what other good, preferably sci-fi, skirmish games are out there that are like, ...
Space Station Zero, perhaps. Model-agnostic, uses KT-sized boards, has a whole campaign that you can do co-op if you want.
tepid steeple
what do you like abt kill team
cursive siren
strong focus on sightlines and positioning, and frankly the vibes, i enjoy 40k lore and models, but dont want to deal with a massive army.
next pilot
yeah, same tbh
cursive siren
also generally seems to have a good amount of build choices inbeteen equipment, weapon choice, and roster, but isnt to overwhelming in layers of build choices. I like that units often have different abilites or actions rather than being different by 2 in 5 different numbers. Like i have some concerns but i feel like it has a good balance of rules that allow for different stats but not be bean counting.
sand sonnet
Warcaster: Neo Mekanica might not be a bad fit, but it's probably hard to find a group playing in most areas.
haughty bobcat
what other good, preferably sci-fi, skirmish games are out there that are like, ...
Stargrave
Necromunda is my personal fav
cursive siren
what is stargrave like?
haughty bobcat
it's pretty good, rules are smooth and the archetypes for leaders allow you to make any style you want
tepid steeple
stargrave is what I would recommend yeah but it only really has complexity in your two main guys
the rest are just different stats and equipment, with the sytem having a pretty short equipment list in general
a lot of options for your main guys though!
infinity has a similar vibe for the focus on specialised individuals, but probably would say it's more complex overall than kt
but it's probably the main other game where you could have a like 10 man team with each person bringing a unique collection of abilities to the fight
while still having a lot of freedom in putting a list together
sleek trail
infinity has a similar vibe for the focus on specialised individuals, but probab...
infinity is certainly more complex
most of your guys that do things in infinity are interesting and special
but mechanically the system all but mandates you bring a bunch of boring dudes to stand around and do nothing
cheerleading
tepid steeple
even cheap orders can have interesting stuff tho
even just cause there's more universal options
notably no equipment options though, at least in the traditional sense. ever option is notarised so some specific combinations aren't available kinda thing, and abilities tied to equipment options etc
supple shale
but mechanically the system all but mandates you bring a bunch of boring dudes t...
N4 has done a lot to fix that with the “15 units*” paradigm imho
sleek trail
this is true
supple shale
No more “Wallace and 45 Volunteers” lists
sleek trail
but if ur playing vanilla you are taking cheerleaders who arent taking anything
still fill important roles
due to aros
esp template infantry (rokots my beloved)
supple shale
infiltrating heavy flamethrower Grunt the real 🐐
cursive siren
i def enjoy not having 1 big guy that everything hinges on, its not a dealbreaker but its a thing of personal taste. I really like the look of something like maleghast (and want to play it soon) but i would prefer if the complexity and power was spread out more.
sleek trail
someone should make a maleghast "hack" of sorts that moves it to a more traditional measure-and move+more dudes schema
cursive siren
i really like the minimal diagonalls, strict grid system of maleghast, but fufils a specific taste and there are a lot of other specific tastes i also enjoy.
autumn sun
https://fxtwitter.com/joindicebreaker/status/1750496239429505069 Guess the Fromsoft license didn't give enough money
sand sonnet
They announced this via a video and they spoke out about how badly they messaged the game being shuttered.
It was one of the worst non-apology apologies I've ever seen.
sleek trail
same system?
sand sonnet
"We worded things poorly and you took it wrong, and we're sorry you did, we probably should have said something in the last four years about it."
autumn sun
Probably the same system.
sleek trail
or new ed
sand sonnet
Not a new edition, just print on demand models for it.
autumn sun
They're gonna have a real big uphill battle against the playerbase who rather rightly have a good amount of resentment towards Steamforged.
sand sonnet
Not any guarantee they'll even finish the minor guilds for factions that didn't get one.
autumn sun
Like this was a game that people were dropping warmahordes over because it hit similar tactical itches but better balanced and a lot less buy-in.
sand sonnet
The creators were all big Warmachine community competition players and heavily recruited their friends for it.
They absolutely targeted that community's gripes.
I met them at Warmachine Weekend as they were launching the game and they were pretty big on trash talking Warmachine in their sales pitch.
That said the game is good, and I still have the full run of the Hunters Guild in metal.
tepid steeple
tonk!!!!
sleek trail
TONK
tepid steeple
tonk is printed, pics tomorrow when it's dry and cured ^^ came out really really well
flat crow
Nice
sand sonnet
flat crow
Vibe
flat crow
next pilot
Ooooh
flat crow
next pilot
Of all the factions to get an expy I wouldn’t have expected genestealers
tepid steeple
Played @stoic pebble's Riposte! yesterday, wanted to share some of the cooler action shots
it was so fun
playtest placeholder models n all but still pretty cool to look at
oh and just before the end of the engagement in the first picture
flamers did work but unfortunately so did rpgs
my squad (bottom) spreading out had cool rules implications! and their enemy was all bunched up because they had just piled out of their transport
next pilot
https://www.wyrd-games.net/news/2024/2/14/waldos-weekly-slashing-through-the-bay...
malifaux has cool stuff
tepid steeple
fun fact about grenades, they kill people
oh my god I just realised I should have used the collatoral gambit
next pilot
unfortunately my local lgs doesn't have any nexus (cadmus) or jedza (seekers) kits
tepid steeple
to see if you got caught in your own grenade
next pilot
crisis protocol is anoather game with pretty minis that looks like it could be fun, the team has really gotten better at making minis too, altohugh ironically most of my favorite heroes (like daredevil) were added earlier. Their minis are still great but not as good as some of the more recent stuff. I'd love to see more midnight sons and runaways stuff as well
sleek trail
Damn that rips
autumn sun
https://renegadegamestudios.com/heroscape-countdown Round 2 I guess?
prime gate
BILL HOOK BILL HOOK BILL HOOK BILL HOOK
flat crow
Ye
supple shale
William Hook
past pebble
It's so cool to me that trench crusade has the islamic faction as protagonists
full abrahamic solidarity in turning filthy hellspawn to piles of gore
flat crow
Well less protagonists and one of many factions fighting against Hell
But yeah big into it not just being Christians of various kinds
stable pelican
thinking about doing a trench crusade diorama
flat crow
Vibe
trail fulcrum
lean pilot
lmfao hi Admiral
compact leaf
Oo
Fellow Aleph player
In any case
Uh
What were we on about?
Right
You were looking at Bakunin
lean pilot
She posted this in another server we're in and my entire feedback was pointing like a monkey going "ooh Dakini"
compact leaf
Dakini are pretty standard for OSS
That Asura hacker though..
That thing will tear asunder just about any other hacker in the game
lean pilot
its a fun list
compact leaf
That profile is actually exclusive to OSS now that I look at it
Neato
More toys for when I buy their stuff
Ariadna as a secondary...
I'd honestly say you can go for Kosmo right away if you can find the CodeOne collection for Ariadna
You get most of the stuff you'll ever need for them in there
(which does include the bear with a claymore on a stick)
lean pilot
that's pretty based
i wanna collect for bakunin first but i don't really know where to start. starter guides kind of assume a lot of knowledge i don't have.
keep in mind i've never played wargames before
if people call me a meta chaser that's on them
compact leaf
i wanna collect for bakunin first but i don't really know where to start. starte...
Lucky for you, Bakunin has a start collecting box (albeit with the nuns)
compact leaf
You can also drop 250 bucks on a nomads collection pack if you can find one, it's... A bit of everything nomads have though, not specifically Bakunin
Great for vanilla though
The most cohesive starter boxes are the action packs and the Ariadna, Haqqislam, Aleph, Combined army and O-12 collection boxes, most of their stuff comes from one sectorial only and you basically get their whole range bar a couple models
The whole range for a given sectorial, that is
Wah
Sorry for the wall of text
lean pilot
I truly do not have the budget for even that pack you listed, but i might if things keep stable
if nothing else i can base a virtual list off it
compact leaf
Don't let anything intimidate you, buy what you feel is the most affordable once you decide for sure what you want to play
I will say, you can often find them locally for far better prices than CB has
lean pilot
it'd take at least 3-4 months of no non-essential spending and zero emergencies to afford that pack
nobody local sells minis anymore, they all converted to paid play spaces
not great for me cause i can't super afford to blow £20 a week on a hobby i already need to spend money on to be in
lean pilot
it is, sadly, a bit of a long term dream that i can get into this beyond maybe TTS
compact leaf
20£ just to attend is a really weirdly steep cost
lean pilot
its hourly
but wargames are not exactly like
quick things to set up and play
i think its less on average tbf
plus its per table i think but it still adds up
main local also includes terrain on request but egh
compact leaf
It's hourly????
lean pilot
yeah
compact leaf
These are games that take like... At least 2 hours to play!
lean pilot
so like £5 for the booking and then i think its £2.50 an hour past
or £3.50
so my math is bad but still
compact leaf
Good heavens
compact leaf
I'm happy to have local game shops that just allow you to show up and yoink a table
lean pilot
that used to be the way
you're not allowed to have fun without paying money in current year
compact leaf
That's so weird and predatory
lean pilot
trust me being broke is so restrictive to enjoyment i just don't go outside much now
compact leaf
I'm sorry but like
I'm genuinely disgusted by this weird trend you've got going on in your area
Mmm
lean pilot
well wargamers and TCG players are typically more to the end of things where £10-20 a week for a hobby is pocket change
most tcg people i know buy boxes of boosters regularly
compact leaf
Well I will say
I can certainly help you play some infinity online if you wanted to learn it properly
But uh
Yeah I suppose these are kind of cash cow hobbies aren't they
lean pilot
i would. i have other people who are and have i'm just a slow learner
compact leaf
That's okay!
I would like to make it known that I spend my days teaching people board games
I'd be more than happy to help
lean pilot
in general i find it difficult to have any hobbies anymore because price of entry is always prohibitive. can barely even sit down anymore without being asked to pay money.
lean pilot
esp when you have a disability that requires you to use the bathroom a lot, which is never free
yeah i'm trying not to vent its just bothersome
compact leaf
esp when you have a disability that requires you to use the bathroom a lot, whic...
I'm..
Sorry
But
You're telling me they charge you to use the bathroom..?
lean pilot
no, think about it
if i'm out and i need the bathroom where can i go
cafe or food establishment, i need to buy food to use it right
the only place that doesn't charge like that is only open like 9-5
most hobbies i wanna participate in are evening based
so if there wasn't a table fee i'd probably be expected to pay for food, which is the other side of the business for these places
like i said i barely go for walks bc if i need the bathroom i need to go to usually a food place and they'll insist on charging me to be a customer to use facilities
similarly im reliant on public transport and that ends at 11pm so if i overrun im stranded
easier not to go out
the only place i can walk for free that i enjoy is private and is open about 6 hours a day
i'd love to have people over to do hobbies but they all insist on going out instead
more social innit
i can't ask people to change for me
not trying to vent or w.e its just difficult to explain succinctly i guess
i was attracted to maleghast because its virtual and no buy in, though that's its own thread
i mean other than the $6.66 for the book
back in the day when i used to be in tcgs and stuff the deal was you were buying their stock and maybe the food/drink and so if you didn't specifically pay to be there that time you were still part of the ecosystem that lead to people buying stuff there. the model's shifted.
compact leaf
I'm sorry to hear that's how it is over there friend, hopefully you can find an affordable space to engage with your hobbies in the near future
trail fulcrum
lmfao hi Admiral
Heheeehe
trail fulcrum
She posted this in another server we're in and my entire feedback was pointing l...
Dakini's are cool,
lean pilot
Dakinis ARE cool and I'm tired of pretending they aren't
compact leaf
may i add you
I don't see why not
supple shale
hell yeah Infinity gang rise up
Infinity the Discord is a pretty solid resource for learning the ropes, lfg if you TTS, and getting down and dirty with the minutia of Yr Dudes in the faction channels
lean pilot
Infinity the Discord is a pretty solid resource for learning the ropes, lfg if y...
Who sent you
🔪
supple shale
John Infinity
lean pilot
I knew it
supple shale
Infinity is my favorite (widely played 28mm) wargame and I will never miss a chance to ship it around
lean pilot
sees like 3 people I know already in there righto
sudden halo
Oh sweet, new batch of infinity folks in the thread!
lean pilot
compact leaf
We've actually got a local/international slow grow league that runs out of a tabletop shop right on the border
That's what made us bite the bullet after years of looking at it
compact leaf
At the moment we're a steel phalanx player
compact leaf
New sectorial just dropped
Of note is uh..
"Samus Arantes, Netroid Rover"
Because CB is very subtle
lean pilot
show us the Équipe Argent models, Carlos
Argent Equipment? We crossing over with Doom now?
supple shale
next pilot
I've been consider trying out crisis protocol
compact leaf
KLUDGER
Here's what they look like :)
They're pretty lean compared to well uh
Literally everything else in the sectorial lol
pulsar matrix
Trench crusade? Never heard of it before.
tepid steeple
@flat crow
flat crow
The tldr is it's ww1 not grim dark crusades and he'll is invading
It's sorta similar to never going home the rpg
Weird horror occult ww 1
As of now the like major factions are
Christianity melange, Hell, and the sultanate
It's being designed by the people behind mordheim
And those adjacent to it in the community
pulsar matrix
I see
velvet badge
Only now do I learn this thread exists
flat crow
Been following it for awhile. I'm super into the settings set-up and visuals. I'm also fond of skirmish level games so Im definitely hoping it lands well and is picked up by folks lol
The first sculpts are also being shown and they're pretty great Ngl
haughty bobcat
so awesome I've been watching his art since he was the artist focus in a 28 mag issue
supple shale
Whomst, Mike F?
haughty bobcat
yeah just had to verify he did the art in Vol.4
he had a pretty cool interview too
I could link it if anyone wanted since he talks a fair bit about his process for creating Trench Crusade and it seems that game is pretty big here
supple shale
100% that would be of interest, I should think, to this forum
supple shale
Unrelated; current in danger of getting into This Quar’s War on account of the slick new starter set from Wargames Atlantic
I’ve been vaguely aware of those Quar since like 2012 but never more than “goofy lil guys fighting fantasy WWI”
haughty bobcat
100% that would be of interest, I should think, to this forum
flat crow
Twitter
haughty bobcat
@flat crow is there one there with a druid sacrificing roots into a fire while a giant organ dog behind them connects to the moon?
Thats my fav one but I can’t remember where I saw it
flat crow
Hm? Uhhh I think that's on the artstation yeah
As well as the living radio child
Which might be still the most fucked up one I've seen for trench lol
midnight vine
guildball got it's first official errata in years today
and they acknowledged the community updates and made them official
flat crow
Nice
flat crow
native portal
Eyyy
Osprey are good at making Okay rulesets
so they should have a pretty solid game
flat crow
nice
supple shale
Fingers insanely crossed that CB shows the new French at tonight’s Adepticon seminar
I like Hoopoe but if the show is nothing but Warcrow stuff then I intend to make a nasty face and sulk for three to five business days
compact leaf
Fingers insanely crossed that CB shows the new French at tonight’s Adepticon sem...
STAY WINNING
WE GOT FRENCHHH
Anyways
Here's everything from CB's infinity panel
supple shale
WE GOT FRENCHHH
LETS GOOOOOO
Extremely good shit imho
Not in love with the hockey masks for Briscards; new Moblot fuckin slaps; incredible how they made Jacques look even more like Jean Reno than his old sculpt
compact leaf
Oh yeah also
https://youtu.be/opfD9qckERI?si=vfUEkb5Tg7i9VQpn
supple shale
The sleeper hit of the show for me is the new warcor, though. I’ve only known about reporterbot for twenty-five minutes but if anything were to happen to them et c et c
compact leaf
The new warcor is sweeett
sudden halo
The new dire foes looks sweet. The roller girl hvt is really cool. Shane I just grabbed Lupe secondhand. I would have help off if I'd known she was getting a new sculpt.
supple shale
New Lupe has an excellent Freaky Lil Guy
But the Daemonist has possibly the Freakiest Lil Guy in the entire range tbh, love that for both of them
sudden halo
The daemonist creature looks like the villain in Kaiju #8 and I'm here for it
sudden halo
i wasn't really excited about warcrow but it looks like it plays super well
alternating activations with a limited order pool based on your commander
and a "catch up" mechanic for units you didn't activate to move into the battlefield and remain relevant
i adore the stress system - most wargames its all about inflicting damage or killing models, but warfare is so much more about morale and making the other side stop fighting so you can accomplish what you want to do, so having ways to break morale that aren't just "kill enough stuff to basically win and force them to roll for losing" is something i always like to see in a game
units can also spend stress as a resource to activate additional times in a turn or get bonuses on dice rolls, so theres a neat push your luck thing going on with it that seems like its going to make for a lot of meaningful decisions that aren't necesarily going to bog down the game
next pilot
looks like there's some cool stuff in it huh
I really enjoy painting body horror, the abberants are my favorite gsc to paint for that reason
there's just so much fun blending you can do
sudden halo
@twin mountain I feel like you'd like what they're doing here, based on some of the conversations we've had around wargames and game design. they took a lot of lessons from Aristeia!
twin mountain
<@140921736588689408> I feel like you'd like what they're doing here, based on s...
oh! tell me more! 👀
compact leaf
Oh hell
It
It's got the dice mechanic from Arcs
Or well.. the dice from it, it looks like
One's super hitty, ones in the middle, and one's not very hitty
And then there are symbols on them that are failures unless a model has an ability activated by them
It's neato
sudden halo
oh! tell me more! 👀
Here's the rundown as far as I know.
I think full games are on a 3'x3' board. Not sure on the total model count but it looks to be 5-20, kind of like Infinity.
Looks like each round is made up of some number of turns (2 in the demo, I imagine it scales on the size of the scenario). On each turn players alternate activating a unit. You can activate a unit that's already activated earlier in a round by adding a stress to it. At the end of the round all of the units that didn't get activated in the round get a single free standard move.
Combat is a roll off with custom dice. Dice have 3 symols, hit, block, and !, each of which can be hollow or filled in. Hollow symbols don't count for most units, but Elite units get to count them as successes. With nothing special going on, both parties take damage equal to their hits minus their opponents blocks. Then the loser gets pushed back, gets a stress, and the winner can decide to follow or stay where they are. Looks like the tendency is that you get only "attack dice" when attacking and only "defense dice" when defending, but some units mix it up and can deal damage when defending or block while attacking.
The special stuff comes in with switches, which let you trade out dice symbols for extra effects. Some units can also take a stress to get better rolls or effects.
Units get stress from activating more than once a round, losing fights, various special effects, or spending it on things. When you take stress that exceeds your limit, you roll a morale check, and if you get no successes, you break and run away. Not sure if recovering from a rout is in the game - it didn't come up in the demo video.
We haven't seen anything about magic in the demos, no idea how that works. If its anything like Infinity, I imagine the scenarios are going to play a major role in how the game plays out, and there will be a lot of interesting objective modes.
twin mountain
Here's the rundown as far as I know.
I think full games are on a 3'x3' board. ...
oooh that turn system is really interesting
sudden halo
me too, it keeps some of that "I really need to accomplish this thing" energy that I like in Infinity, where failing a roll doesn't mean you have to wait a whole round for that unit to try again, but makes it a more interesting decision compared to just a minor resource cost.
supple shale
The stress mechanic seems really neat, truly love anything that tries to gamify the psychological toll of combat.
Obligatory “No End In Sight the goat fr fr”
next pilot
warcrow seems interesting, I really, really like the scions of Yaldabroth
dark elves+body horror is just peak my sort of aesthetic
lean pilot
I'm really not enthusiastic about Warcrow, and I want to like it.
compact leaf
Eh, you haven't played it yet
Basically nobody has
If you can find a local with both sides of the starter, ask for a demo game
...when it comes out, of course
supple shale
I do not care to like Warcrow (“Local Idiot Does Not Need Yet Another 28mm Skirmish System”), but I earnestly hope it does well and CB continues to diversify their product line at a healthy pace
sudden halo
I'm definitely in "local idea does not meet yet another 28mm skirmish system" territory, and I'm into Warcrows minis much. I'm not a huge fan of fantasy, and while I know they're gonna be excellent quality none of what weve seen really speaks to be directly. Seeing the demo and what they're doing with the rules has it on my radar now though.
Just need to be responsible and see off my GW minis
twin mountain
i just like good design
twin mountain
https://youtu.be/atTANdTVLm4?si=ac3z0OXLysv2e6Qv
oh god all the audio is coming out of my left ear this hurts
;O;
sudden halo
I watched it on my phone so I didn't notice, but I hate it when that happens. Either from a video having bad stereo or one of my earbuds deciding its taking the day off.
next pilot
I'm really not enthusiastic about Warcrow, and I *want* to like it.
Why so?
sand sonnet
Slightly adjacent to the thread topic, but is anyone here a huge fan of Aristeia?
If so are you interested in a beta key for a digital version of the game called Hexadome I picked up while at PAX East?
twin mountain
If so are you interested in a beta key for a digital version of the game called ...
@tranquil orbit maybe?
I loved aristeia but I am full up on games right now