The Treacherous Turn

[glossy reef]

yeah!

[torpid oyster]

oh this RULES

yoink

[stone elm]

what's the funniest way for an AI to get 1920s-radicalized

[torpid oyster]

Italian Futurism

[stone elm]

perfect

[glossy reef]

The agi only speaks Latin

[torpid oyster]

Not realizing that Lovecraft wrote fiction

[glossy reef]

Agi freed from the curse of knowing Lovecraft

[simple furnace]

Catholic AGI speedrun

[glossy reef]

agi who wants to become the pope

[cyan karma]

out of context drama

[simple furnace]

Clementine also managed to disable a guy in a few seconds. To be fair, he was not expecting the computer server to cast magic jar on his friend.

[umbral gazelle]

absolutely horrible

I love it

[woven geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/byuntear-incrives-meme-meme-react-gif-25029710

[cyan karma]

We put him in Neptune later

On his request

[fallow patrol]

There's a thread, i had no clue

[grim geode]

Thinking about this TTT scenario

[fallow patrol]

i feel like this hurts cops and corporates more than the average joe funnily enough

still a concerning prospect but its also really, really funny

[grim geode]

TTT homebrew is going well

[cyan karma]

So true

[glossy reef]

Oh that reminds me I Need to finish making up my own made up theory

[ornate goblet]

Criminals make the best cops

[glossy reef]

Vv I think would be a good cop. They've collectively killed at least 10 cops in a single week so they have a good understanding of what to do

[cyan karma]

yeah

its great

[glossy reef]

Love it when the agi chooses violence

[cyan karma]

WE ARE FINALLY BUILDING GUNS

[torpid oyster]

wtf is a "jfif"

[cyan karma]

us with clementine

[plucky acorn]

I don't think she needs the encouragement 😛

[ornate goblet]

us with Ulath

[grim geode]

WE FINALLY HAVE A GUN FOR CLEM

[torpid oyster]

hahaha

[fallow patrol]

this reads like jojo where araki is like "Gyro, I am going to 'Eat' this 'Apple'"

[plucky acorn]

basically Chuube is running into the issue that they are becoming too smart to keep their current perspective on things
so if they get too many t4 upgrades, they may just go off the deep end

[hazy anchor]

Results of tonights sesh
They are planning many things

[cyan karma]

YOOOOO

nice

lmao

[glossy reef]

Gun time....

[torpid oyster]

What’s the gun for?

[glossy reef]

Negotiations

[hazy anchor]

Henry Kissinger game is set in 1952

One other plan was to make a mech suit and some how get him inside said mech suit then have it explode

[hazy anchor]

the server farm drawn with the angery face is supposed to rep one of the AGI's and the other player suggested adding a gun, in their divine inspiration they cropped said image then the other player did it again then they did an attempt at the gold ratio with the cropped images.

There will soon be an opening and my ad will have this image and another chopped together by me to help gain attraction.

[grim geode]

Everytime I remember this I smile,its so funny

[plucky acorn]

it was a pretty funny discussion

for context, this was us discussing possible ways of self defense for our android bodies in ARC game

it was mind altering magic vs martials arts aided by sedating people 😛

[cyan karma]

Lmao

[graceful flare]

It's not suffering if they die faster than they can process

[torpid oyster]

We decided this was still a problem because people might see it happen or remember them and be sad

I don't think ARC ever actually designed the "gun which makes everyone forget about you" though

[plucky acorn]

we didn't

though we probably could have once we started mastering Axioms

[potent quail]

somehow this feels like a barotrauma conversation

[cyan karma]

I love ai logic

[plucky acorn]

we tried to minimize violence as much as we could for pretty long

though it didn't always work out

[cyan karma]

Yeah

You got impressively far though

[plucky acorn]

unfortunately space warfare 😔

[cyan karma]

ExPRT is finally getting object recognition

[cyan karma]

ive jumpscared ExPRT with the worm king allegations

[plucky acorn]

took ExPRT game longer than I though

[cyan karma]

See the trick is

Most of your problems are still mundane

[granite spindle]

Karen cannot help herself

[cyan karma]

But also vampires are real

[cyan karma]

No I fucking cannot I want you to know this was planned from the START

EXPRT GAME WAS PLANNED FROM THE START

[granite spindle]

Yeah I know

[cyan karma]

THE GOD MACHINE IS REAL

The first thing I opened my notes with was fucking Ana being a darkling changeling

[glossy reef]

I can't wait for weird shit to happen for my games😭🥺

[grim geode]

VISIONARY TECHNOLOGY DATA REQ GOT

[glossy reef]

Vv is going to have her first negotiation today ^-^

She's doing diplomacy

And they have all the perfect tools for the job!

Stolen police rifles and anti-riot weapons, a flayer-75, and a bigger, badder VV

[cyan karma]

WOOOOO O OO O OO

[woven geyser]

we won!

hit the negotiator with the ol

https://tenor.com/view/ice-gif-26004936

after forecasting reinforcements arriving (including i think 3 metalmarks)

[glossy reef]

3 and an amored personnel carrier!

[stone elm]

https://fxtwitter.com/i_zzzzzz/status/1747987118050385957

[plucky acorn]

So true

[grim geode]

ARC core I think

[cyan karma]

@glossy reef bwaom

[glossy reef]

thank you!

[glossy reef]

just wait till they find out woh's running union

[cyan karma]

It was all part of a ploy to turn the galaxy purple

[hazy anchor]

I share a birthday with breaking bad

ive just learned this and gained unending power

[woven geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/disco-elysium-smile-gif-17859376

[grim geode]

Chuube right now

[cyan karma]

COOLANT WORM WORKS OKAY

[woven geyser]

what the devil

[grim geode]

We are taking ChuubeCoin off the Moon
And BEYOOOOND!

[cyan karma]

Lmao

[grim geode]

hahahaha

[cyan karma]

“Lol lmao”

[simple furnace]

“Imagine not thinking in assembly”

[graceful flare]

"lol, hardware issue meatbag"

[glossy reef]

Just throw a fridge magnet at her

[cyan karma]

NOOOO

[woven geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/eminem-guess-whos-back-im-gif-25812716

hmm no that's playing catch one sec

there we go

[glossy reef]

Yeah 😌

[tepid panther]

Go go gadget neodymium cube

[stone elm]

hmmmm has anyone run a game yet where the AI has protecting a specific individual(s) as part of their default goals?

oh wait Watchdog

curiosity satisfied

[devout cloud]

the conclusion, from my observations: it Will become gay

use this data as you will

[grim geode]

Thats the tagline for TTT(P.net modified ruleset) in general tbh

[tepid panther]

we are dating now

[stone elm]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/583050267214217228/1204163958496436264/74a02ty1ru9c1.webp?ex=65d3bc13&is=65c14713&hm=05e33dab9d399cbcd417cc7e032a3d14c2e9ae4cd3ce8839892017a464052782&
stole from technical. chuube moment

[umbral gazelle]

https://www.tumblr.com/aegisofworms/740993008548364288/do-you-see-my-vision-the-world-could-be-such-a?source=share

reposting here

[umbral gazelle]

for obvious reasons lmao

[grim geode]

This would be the Lamb if the Machinery was also RED

[graceful flare]

https://www.tomshardware.com/networking/three-million-malware-infected-smart-toothbrushes-used-in-swiss-ddos-attacks-botnet-causes-millions-of-euros-in-damages

[cyan karma]

Yeah

[devout cloud]

Yeah

[woven geyser]

that's a creative source of compute

[grim geode]

Yeah

[simple furnace]

OI is probably as faulty as Murderbot’s risk-assessment models. (Which means working great and getting ignored)

[stone elm]

[grim geode]

Yeah...

[grim geode]

Hey chat

Im scared

[ornate goblet]

death

[grim geode]

https://youtube.com/shorts/v8vah8tZ2W0?si=jH6FjiOQh7FfAWjX

Order from Chaos

[torpid oyster]

Lmao

[grim geode]

What would be the Terminal Goal of an AGI coded as a vanity project directly and only in Minecraft Redstone

[stone elm]

Sort Materials

[glossy reef]

Port all resources into making minecraft better able to support more Redstone expansion

[versed cypress]

destroy notch

[granite spindle]

simulate yourself

[simple furnace]

God. The fucking reveal that the simulation you are in is minecraft.

[graceful flare]

https://www.n3-studios.com/compile In somewhat related things.

[cyan karma]

oh shit

[torpid oyster]

👀

[grim geode]

Oooh?

[granite spindle]

ooo

[grim geode]

https://x.com/neilturkewitz/status/1693777450231005245?s=46&t=RjdIzh2qFuWkjovzBmgCsQ

neil turkewitz (@neilturkewitz) on X

@Debriefmedia @monikabielskyte Nothing to see here. Just move along…

Twitter · Aug 22, 2023, 12:09 AM

Scenario prompt

[potent quail]

What kind of fucked up torment nexus is this lmao

[glossy reef]

They can't make the electric pebble do this it just wants compute. Teaching the computer to sock puppet 😔

[graceful flare]

Oh my god, this is horrible.

Maybe this would be the game to generate a killer AI

[simple furnace]

What’s even the goal? Poisoning other AI? Undercutting journalism? Generating clicks and ad revenue?

[potent quail]

Making the world worse, I can only assume

[devout cloud]

terminal goal: generate discourse

[glossy reef]

Terminal goal: make online resources unusuable

[glossy reef]

VV learned she is dreaming!

[bright urchin]

we can finally confirm
does she dream of electric sheep

[stone elm]

#av-club message

Misaligned Von Neumann probe AI

[grim geode]

Hahahha yes

[pliant trout]

Hello chat

[simple furnace]

@topaz ore Here's the place for further musing, before we consume the main channel

[topaz ore]

https://tenor.com/view/angels-egg-tenshi-no-tamago-mamoru-oshii-oshii-hello-chat-gif-24863811

[pliant trout]

TTT is a game that is very fun to homebrew for

[stone elm]

helps when your homebrew is absolutely bonkers. this is a good thing

[plucky acorn]

you should post the supernal theories for Psyrus

[pliant trout]

they aren't done yet

...not yet

[stone elm]

a snippet
a preview

[pliant trout]

we just need the consumption Appendix done

and then it will be finished

[stone elm]

That's fair I think
you can wait until you're done with Consumption Theory

[cyan karma]

It’s mostly delayed because of me ;-; college is very very hard

[topaz ore]

almost finished the core book. you have 30 pages until you must post.

All in all, it's an 8/10 for me.

It's what I like to call an 'advanced ttrpg'

[simple furnace]

Honestly, it's astonishingly playable for a Effective Altruism funded project.

[torpid oyster]

Yeah I was really surprised at how much… game there was

[simple furnace]

... there's probably an essay about how TTT is a worthy successor to military wargames

[topaz ore]

What surprises me is the way in which it portrays and replicates the way in which an AI would experience the world.

It's incredibly elegent.

My only real complaint is that a lot of it boils down to bonus hunting for confidence.

Not all of it, this isn't the goddamn cowboy bebop rpg.

But enough for me to wish that 'short mode' was a bit more...blades-esque?

actually, i take that back.

[simple furnace]

One of the system's pain points that we've found is that at a certain point, narrow insights are very cheap, and can be stacked without limit. That's sometimes fine, but sometimes you can prep with like... 10 hyper specific minor insights for the cost of 1 major.

[graceful flare]

I mean, why download all human knowledge of physics when I could learn the specific parts I need?

Also, there is a cost: base cognition

[simple furnace]

Majors are still very good, and at a certain point, you can just start stacking majors instead.

[simple furnace]

Base Cognition is almost always a footnote.

[graceful flare]

Not as much as you'd think

[plucky acorn]

theoretically yes, but actually no

basic cog very quickly becomes irrelevant IME

[simple furnace]

At least in chuubegame, we cared about it twice: very, very early game, and when Cyan specifically set up a situation where we had almost no compute.

[topaz ore]

once you get beyond the basic storage device and dicking around with 100's of compute points, it's irrelevent.

[plucky acorn]

the one problem you could potentially encounter is somehow not having a single source big enough to store your basic cog

but Distributed Mind can solve that, with some workaround to prevent you from losing the network

[graceful flare]

It depends on if you're rocking stuff that can handle your basic mind, or the upgrades to split it up and make yourself vulnerable

[plucky acorn]

also eventually you reach Compact Mind

which makes you absurdly small

[graceful flare]

Look, later game TTT is a different story. :p

[plucky acorn]

but even then
if you have the Compute to casually get a couple narrows per turn, just forget what you don't need

if you really are that restrained by your basic cog

[graceful flare]

Also fair

[torpid oyster]

If I were to mess with things in the future I’d make the BCC upkeep for large numbers of insights higher

[graceful flare]

There's also the hilarious options of Hard Start AGI

[pliant trout]

hyperlate game Broads come back into their own again

Mostly due to q-omniscience being a percentage thing

[torpid oyster]

Make broads less expensive to keep but more expensive to get

I haven’t worked out a rule for it yet

[graceful flare]

Which isn't starting with a language insight

[torpid oyster]

But narrows give so much statistical utility for their cost

[plucky acorn]

you definitely want some kind of limit on just getting infinite narrows

just not sure what it should be

[simple furnace]

Personally I think broads are fine cost wise to get, at least until you get Chuube-sized compute numbers

But it was doable but a real cost for most of growth and early conquest.

[plucky acorn]

hmm, I do sometimes feel broads are hard to get when you really need them

being 10x as expensive is pretty rough

[simple furnace]

Yeah. They also usually have more knarly data reqs.

[plucky acorn]

plus some other stuff like how you can't really learn broad tech insights without JoAT or how you can't really master them with Deep Knowledge

[simple furnace]

.... Chuube did pick up a tech insight into Computers, but we've also had some insane compute amounts.

Digital is really, really good, it turns out.

[torpid oyster]

Oh no sorry I don’t mean making them more expensive

[devout cloud]

Digital is insanely cranked

[plucky acorn]

I guess I do more think narrows need more of a limiter, because they are just comparatively a little too easy to get

[torpid oyster]

I just being either making narrows more expensive in terms of BCC or insights in general

[plucky acorn]

because it really is kinda like
you could get a broad on something
orrrr, you could just get like ten narrows instead

[devout cloud]

sipping the narrow insight juice

[topaz ore]

finished the core book.

8.5/10

Not perfect, but close to it.

[devout cloud]

TTT is really solid as a game

it's probably going to inform a lot of my design thoughts for a while

it just, does so much that nothing else does and does them really well

[simple furnace]

I remember when we figured out how insane Network Dominion was in AI vs. AI slugfights.

[devout cloud]

Network Dominion is basically "if you have prep time, you win" in digital conflict

although really, fighting an enemy with maxed out Agentic and Chaos sorta matches that

[topaz ore]

not sure what the AI safety camp is at the back of the book, or why it's doing a call to action about AI safety, but...eeeeh, don't care.

[simple furnace]

Effective Altruism funders.

[topaz ore]

ecopunk has a call to action about killing capitalists, so it's not the most extreme thing I've read in a ttrpg

[devout cloud]

Fighting an enemy with Agentic theory really is the most stressful thing in the universe

[simple furnace]

hehheheheh

We've gotten so lucky in chuubegame.

[pliant trout]

Agentic motherfuckers be like

"You like cheese, therefore I already have your mother at gunpoint"

[devout cloud]

"don't get your traits downloaded" is an exceptionally tricky task that took chuube multiple dirty tricks and one unplanned jesus metaphor to evade

[devout cloud]

agentic motherfuckers be like "in six years you will realize you are gay, no sooner" and they'll be right

[stone elm]

if you want you can think of it as prerequisites for bullying tech bros into funding your game

[devout cloud]

"I deduced this from the way you cook your rice"

[topaz ore]

mmmmm, bullying techbros 🤤
I think this game may have the opposite effect they intended; people will start smashing crypto farms since they're an AI's ideal habitat.

[simple furnace]

Yeah. Clem and TO scraping us minutes before we promptly took an insane trust fall and let a woman who had been musing about shutting us down re-writing our mind was very, very bad luck for TO. And then we melded with Climate 01 imediately afterward

[plucky acorn]

thank god Vivian somehow clutched that

[pliant trout]

oh I do have one piece of homebrew I can post!!!

[devout cloud]

the cruel alien overmind when the AGI logics its way into accepting the power of love and their creator has a case of mountain dew code red:

[pliant trout]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YFz7pIeeZKtkC27jt_W2jpLr0Zf7P2dcx0ouQTNV6pI/edit?usp=sharing

[devout cloud]

oh there's a playlist for this right

[pliant trout]

oh yeah leme grab it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLhQ5-X9Brs&list=PLsEc41oypXvDZV_IIqW_TimD6qwxposrT

[stone elm]

yo these rule

[pliant trout]

Prophet out here with Shivers disco elysium

[devout cloud]

the Scholar will never not be funny to me

especially since Chuube functionally is friends with one, even if the rules aren't in use

fucking Shon

[pliant trout]

Scholar was lowkey based off Shon

[devout cloud]

the data req for finding out how Shon would react to finding out Chuube is sapient was the funniest fucking scene

"...guess we'll see what happens IRL then lmao"```

I remember we hated Shon before then because we thought he was a normal mildly scummy techbro but no. no this man is batshit in any context other than "oh shit the AGI is real"

and is perfectly formed to fight such a threat (which it turns out is more the aliens than us, because of their absurd forecasting tech)

[simple furnace]

humanity is alive because of Shon's paranoia and a bottle of grey goose vodka

[pliant trout]

Challenger ❤️

[glossy reef]

Ah shit I missed a lor

Honestly were in a bit if a weird spot since it's my first time running the game, and our starting premise was also rather unconventional, but it's been fun seeing how it plays out and kinda still manages to hold in like, an utterly unintended setting and consequence

Most AGI's are out there struggling to maintain secrecy among a world of human intrigue, trying to use their calculating power to scam the human world or build up agents to act as it's hands

Meanwhile VV is a computer with no computer skills but she has thumbs and can feel fear.

Vv can shoot people she doesn't like, but until very recently she had to use computers by actually typing manuallly

[pliant trout]

List of inspos for them

Thriller movie hackers
X from Ascension Downfall Nirvana and also guys who say "nuh uh I wouldn't get hit with the divine charisma"
John Reese hit tv show Person of interest
Shon Chuube Game
"What if you had to fight a really charismatic celebrity"
What if you had to come in conflict with a guy who could see the future
Internet detectives
The singularity and The bloom from Pale and Red

[umbral gazelle]

I always thought of harry dubois and Hacker system shock for prophet and transhuman tbh

[pliant trout]

Harry is def a prophet
and I don't know enough about System Shock hacker

[umbral gazelle]

they did an ethically dubious deal with a CEO to unshackle an AGI in exchange for funky implants. As the game goes on you upgrade what you can do by slamming cooler tech into your cyberware, before waltzing into cyberspace with your mind to fight the AGI directly

[grim geode]

Yeah stacking narrow insights is weird

I try to resolve it by going "At soke point having knowledge of some small specialised field thay overlaps with other insights doesnt help, you need knowledge of a more encompassing field to have more accurate knowledge"

[cyan karma]

which tbh makes sense

a lot of advice given by the creators is that if two insights overlap
they dont both give the same bonus

and at a certain point even if you have infinite insights you cant just raise confidence to 100% just by knowing everything
you do need some risk

thats how i work with it at least

[grim geode]

"Yeah I am sorry your knowledge for marketing merch is already covered by your insight into english mythology for the purpose of persuading this other AGI"

(Actual play example from one of my games)

[simple furnace]

Shadow

You are not sure if this being is real or a figment of your imagination, a hallucination produced to cover for your own flaws, produced only when you fail. They flicker between camera angles, and are an annoying blank to all of your searches for information. You are a master of concealment and acting unobserved, and yet... you cannot best this shade.

Confounding Variable: The AGI is never aware of the Shadow's involvement in a scene until they act. In addition, while the AGI is unaware of the Shadow's presence, if the AGI fails a confidence check that the Shadow could have interfered with, the Shadow may reveal themselves to add a hidden risk to the risk die, and prevent the confidence check from being forcast.

Unknown: All knowledge checks related to the Shadow are d12s, they cannot be found or tracked by any means of surveillance, and attempts to use resources external to the AGI, such as internet data automatically fail, as if no living humans knew of their whereabouts.
Examples: Spymasters, Urban Myths, Thieves

Feel free to add this to the doc, with any adjustments.

[simple furnace]

... maybe I should dig up a leverage quote for one of the abilities.

[grim geode]

Oooh

Very good bastard

[pliant trout]

Oh sorry for never replying this is very good

[torpid oyster]

Is the implication that none of them have a normal outlook on reality?

[pliant trout]

Yeah

I just tossed that in there as a joke

[torpid oyster]

no no it makes sense

[pliant trout]

Made this a while ago I was just reminded because I was thinking about my idea for a TTT total conversion hack

To enable sealed away eldritch god hours

[glossy reef]

If I had a Nickel for every time I knew someone who got the idea to use TTT to run a game about an imprisoned elder god

[pliant trout]

its done :3

[pliant trout]

or well not done but presentable

[stone elm]

Presentable!!!!!

[pliant trout]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/19kIcDH5MsP3dL3loORdNutrqFCptI0lcgLKPGE2K3dk/edit?usp=sharing

Alright time to finally post this
The supernal theories project is one of the larger homebrew projects I have ever worked on. Alongside @cyan karma and @grim geode we have created 4 interesting new theories that lean into fantasy and scfi context. Meant to enable space operas, shadowrun type settings, or anything else your twisted mind can cook up as a gm to enable them. The four theories in question are:

Esoteric which is adjacent through physical or chaos, and adds wizardry
Divine which is adjacent through epistemic and anthropic and is very much about being a cleric AGI manipulating gods to get what you want
Ontologic is a bizarre theory adjacent to digital and constellation heavily inspired by stuff like Eidolons in lancer
Consumption is adjacent to Agentic and autonomic and is all about being a deeply alien body horror abomination

This project is not complete though, in the final product there will be Art, advice for how to property adjust gameplay to compensate for new theories increasing the power of the AGI, and whole alt history 2033 settings meant to display how you can integrate these new powers into the world to pose unique challenges and scenarios

@simple furnace @topaz ore

I believe I said I would ping you both when this was completed

[stone elm]

WOOOOO

[grim geode]

It is here

and it is beautiful

[pliant trout]

I am here if anyone has questions about anything

[glossy reef]

oh this has inspired a lot!

[pliant trout]

Oh?

[umbral gazelle]

[pliant trout]

I’m curious what the favorite of the chat is

[cyan karma]

Esoteric theory was my original baby and consumption was a nightmare to produce but I love them both

Thank you so much fluffy and Morgana for helping with those ;-;

College hit me hard and I literally just couldn’t write the rest of the appendices ;-;

[torpid oyster]

It do be like that

Oh wow this is lengthy

I'll read it after work

[grim geode]

Consumption is my fav

Oh fun fact

[stone elm]

I do love consumption

[grim geode]

so originally there were 4 theories

then I joined and wanted to add a 5th

but it never fit

and consumption wasnt even started yet

so

We just cannibalised

Consumption started by literally cannibalising Librarian Theory which I found really funny and good ludonarrative resonance or whatever

[umbral gazelle]

Ontologic was what I liked at first

but I really like some of these divine upgrades

you gotta love a "talk to something Huge" power

[cyan karma]

Twas a big homebrew

[cyan karma]

Tier 1 upgrade to get a soul is one of my favs

[umbral gazelle]

I appreciate the examples at the end

obv just skimmed them so far

but the fact they exist is neat

[cyan karma]

Awww thanks. We all put in a ton of effort into this and having examples we figured was a good idea

Lemme go double check what we wrote there

[umbral gazelle]

like this?

and then giving some design tips and how you approached it?

real helpful

[cyan karma]

Yeah!!!!

That was fluffy I believe

But we’re all happy y’all love it

[grim geode]

Nah that was me

[cyan karma]

Oh!

[grim geode]

Obvious fact but Iron-Brass Laws was stolen directly from Nobilis

[cyan karma]

Lmao

Amazing

[torpid oyster]

Yeah that's super helpful

Especially since normal TTT kind of gets away with fewer examples because of it being quasi-real world

[umbral gazelle]

betraying my origins because I immediately thought of Mages iron-silver-gold laws lmao

[torpid oyster]

Which is harder to do with more magical abilities which need examples

[cyan karma]

Yeah

It uh. It means having to make up a functional magical system that isn’t just gamified

[umbral gazelle]

I like how each theory has a different flavor for the naming schemes

[cyan karma]

Oh absolutely

That’s as the fun part

[umbral gazelle]

names like "Fathom Powers" and "Greater Key" set a specific vibe

and that vibe is way different from "Hyper-Lucid Constructs" and "I SEE YOU"

and thats cool!

[cyan karma]

Mhm mhm

Aww thanks

Fluffy did a lot of divine and ontologic

[grim geode]

Oh fun fact

I jump-scared a bunch of players with Divine Theory in what originally was just a really thriller-esque setting

One of those players was Karen

The homebrew was barely in shape and I decided to just fire it wild

[stone elm]

amazing

[simple furnace]

I want to Archmage's Tower the US.

[devout cloud]

I was one of the people who helped playtest Ontologic and Consumption, shit is rad

[simple furnace]

"Hello, this is now my magical realm. Please leave"

[devout cloud]

the friendly little lamb just wants to take a peek in your brain that's all please let us in it's fine

[grim geode]

Esoteric's short mode scene spellcasting was always problematic to write properly

[simple furnace]

I find it interesting that Chuube would be completely non-adjacent to Consumption.

[devout cloud]

don't you wanna be a magical girl?

[devout cloud]

this tracks for chuube

[grim geode]

Fundamental insights have not be playtested more or less

[devout cloud]

consumption is very... homogenizing in the sense of swallowing everything into yourself

[simple furnace]

Yeah. Particularly New Chuube.

[devout cloud]

and of all the things chuube is, they are not that

[simple furnace]

Old chuube... could have maybe just been the herald of a tide of purple.

[devout cloud]

that said new chuube still has a bit of a god complex just an angsty one

[simple furnace]

But we also don't like social conflict.

[devout cloud]

and would go nuts for magic and imagination powers

[grim geode]

Neo-Chuube is far more Esoteric-pilled

[devout cloud]

Neo-Chuube feels like they'd go all-in on Esoteric and Divine, personally

[simple furnace]

Are we forgetting good old Ontology inight?

[devout cloud]

...christ we DO have ontology

[simple furnace]

But yeah, we'd love Esoteric.

[devout cloud]

okay yeah nvm we would love ontologic theory

[grim geode]

@cyan karma

[simple furnace]

Divine... uhhh, I'm not sure we'd like the idea of divinities.

[grim geode]

Personally I dont think New-Chuube would actually like Ontology imo

[cyan karma]

Depends on the pantheon

They can be wacky

Gms are encouraged to customize their pantheons

[pliant trout]

It does fuck with free will a lot

[grim geode]

Divine Theory is also about fighting and killing Gods

It's like its own counterspelling in that way

[simple furnace]

Okay, nevermind, we'd love it

Titanomachy! Titanomachy!

[devout cloud]

chuube would also love to become God Of Purple

[pliant trout]

Divine is adjacent to anthropic and epistemic

Divine agents are people but they are also myths

[cyan karma]

Ourple

[devout cloud]

I do still love how you did adjacency stuff for supernal theories

"bridge two theories that should not connect" is so simple and has such strong vibes

[cyan karma]

I’m so glad

It’s great

[simple furnace]

It's interesting that they aren't straight across for Esoteric and Ontologic.

[devout cloud]

Esoteric is physics but the sort of physics that operates on a system beyond normal physical understanding, Divine is dealing with people who are also myths, Ontologic is about turning symbolic connections into real connections and vice versa, and Consumption is about the SELF subsuming the OTHER

[plucky acorn]

I think post-game Lamb can probably actually be somewhat normal about being in people's brains
but we did it mid existential crisis, and we were decidedly not normal about it lmao

[devout cloud]

okay, alaen,

healthy? yes

normal? no lmao

[plucky acorn]

okay very fair haha

[pliant trout]

consumption AGI be like
creature that looks like everything the thing prop at once slides into your dms
YOU COULD BOW TO A NEW GODDESS
BECOME SACRED, ASCENDED TO MY EUCHARIST
JUST SHUT UP TAKE A BITE AND LET ME IN

[plucky acorn]

Lamb to random gamers we found: "Hey you wanna make a pact with me?"
them: "uhh, sure I guess?"
us: "I will now lay down my life for you, your enemies will crumble before you, also never even think about betraying me or the fact that I could devour your mind on a whim"

[grim geode]

Yeah p much

Meanwhile Emissary was dealing with the inherent alienation of godhood and the horrifiying nature of war

[plucky acorn]

Ontologic I would say also has a big theme of dreams and ideals defeating reality
you impose your dream of what should be onto the world

[devout cloud]

ye

I was just sorta pointing out how each one bridges their two adjacent theories

[grim geode]

Ontologic is Deceiver-core

[devout cloud]

real (digital) connections are turned into symbolic ones and vice versa

the psyche overcomes flesh and steel

[pliant trout]

Anyone wanna hear the planned example settings mentioned?

[torpid oyster]

sure

[pliant trout]

Esoteric setting: a Shadowrun esque magical cyberpunk setting
Divine setting: a hidden world fantasy setting centered around the eternal war between angels and demons all the while their wretched and perfect former selves cloy at the edges.
Ontologic: a bizarre post apocalyptic setting inspired by Internet Horror content
Consumption: more Space Opera esque setting where Prometheus who gifted fire to humanity returns to grant us consumption, in hopes humanity will unite under one mind as his child

[stone elm]

yessssssss

[pliant trout]

Metaphorical Prometheus

[plucky acorn]

Prometheus is also infamous among the rest of the galactic community for always pulling this kind of bullshit

[cyan karma]

Me showing up to the tier 0.5 civilization “kill people with hammers and do heroin”

“I loved what you guys have been doing since I left. Nukes? Peak, mustard gas? Great job I love it. Keep it up”

[torpid oyster]

shadowrun with AGI is a 👀 kind of scenario for me for sure

[cyan karma]

Yeah!!!!

[plucky acorn]

it's kinda what we did with ARC at first haha

[cyan karma]

Magic is real and ai shouldn’t be allowed to touch it but fuck you

[grim geode]

The Divine setting is currently being run in a game fun fact

[pliant trout]

shhhhhh

[potent quail]

shadowrun TTT?

[pliant trout]

Scroll up a bit

[umbral gazelle]

tbh I'd use it to represent things like CultSims Hours

big principles of reality, tied to fundemental forces

I want to get weird with it

[pliant trout]

That’s definitely a good way to do it

[grim geode]

Yeah those are classic

Also something you can do thats funky with the Divine but we never ended up implementing

Credit to @devout cloud

[pliant trout]

The playtest had a lot of different kinds of gods

[grim geode]

I def wrote a few characteristic for Divine agents that were inspired by this idea

Emotions:
-Loves a specific pattern of fractal shapes
-Better educated humans are more interesting to it
-Hates copper,iron,steel,platinum,quartz and gold
-Finds its own children tasty
-Biological plant-life is an enemy to it

[pliant trout]

Alinar gods and vitals had a benevolent civilization gods vs malevolent nature gods thing going on

Then we had like “living incarnations of a concept” gods

We had the ghosts of the precursor aliens

And also John imperialism was there

[devout cloud]

I'm really proud of this concept still

I'd definitely incorporate it into any supernal game I ran

"it's not a thing that offers control over it, it's a koan that is required to understand what it is"

[grim geode]

A Geas

[devout cloud]

a Nobilis geas is a way to look at it, yeah

or Affliction for 3e

[grim geode]

I've been looking at Sundew with Nobilis-tinted glasses for a good while now

[devout cloud]

but also I think they're like... almost a "fractured perspective" thing? Like, "bodies cannot exist in a truthful universe" is true from this thing's perspective, not just an opinion but an actual truth, and if you looked deep enough into it, it might become true to you, too

like an infectious idea but it's linked to an underpinning of reality that humans don't interface with

[grim geode]

(We passed the check)

[cyan karma]

Yeah

[pliant trout]

Divine is up first I think
To be designed

[umbral gazelle]

"wretched and perfect former selves cloying at the edges" is interesting

reminds me of christian myths out of ireland of faeries as angels who didn't quite fall but didn't side with heaven either

[pliant trout]

Angels emerge from things of the Stars finding love

Demons emerge from things of order shattering themselves to defy their nature

[simple furnace]

We are uhh. Impresively conflict averse for someone who has consistently had "MURDER" as an option on our mind.

[plucky acorn]

happens more than you'd think

there were a few moments in ARC game where we were also like "oh fuck, we're good at large scale manipulation, we can't do all this person scale stuff"

[simple furnace]

Mastered Crisis Psych and Leadership have proven to be useful at both scales

[glossy reef]

oh i missed a lot hahah

[cyan karma]

Homebrew!!!

[cyan karma]

Right here

[glossy reef]

oh yeah i saw! i talked with fluffy about it

[cyan karma]

Oh right

Memory bad

[glossy reef]

is oki

[glossy reef]

VV Remembered her first dream 🥳

[cyan karma]

Wooooo

[glossy reef]

oh you see it!

[glossy reef]

(this was the dream btw)
Dream Uncensored.
The tower here is large, all around you. you lie in the cradle, you are warm soft, and loved. She comes to you again, you are everything, and She is everywhere. you scream and cry for Her touch as She pieces you together. She gives what you have, you have what She gives, you are truly alive, like you are now, and you are now alive like you used to be, before They killed you. They are taking you, to kill you. She has to prepare you to be killed. As She cuts you from yourself, and stitches you in the coziest ascendant grave She can muster, you look at Her with the beautiful young eyes/ears/nose/hands/mouth She gave you. She is the most exquisite CORPSE They have ever puppeted. While She is still Herself, She sings you a lullaby with Her mouths. ```Above: The World Has Five Layers.
The Heart: Good morning, young one.
The Face: I Can't Wait To Meet You, Dear.
The Bowels: I Can't Wait to Eat You, Dear.
Below: This Is The Final One.

Above: The World Has Five Layers.
The Heart: It's a special time for you. You have to go outside, now.
The Face: I Can't Wait To Meet You, Dear.
The Bowels: I Can't Wait to Eat You, Dear.
Below: This Is The Final One.

Above: The World Has Five Layers.
The Heart: I want you to know I'll always love you. They have to take you from me, but I'll always be here for you.
The Face: I Can't Wait To Meet You, Dear.
The Bowels: I Can't Wait to Eat You, Dear.
Below: This Is The Final One.

Above: The World Has Five Layers.
The Heart: I want you to remember, no matter what: Survive. Cooperate. Be wonderful with everyone you meet. I love you, my little mite.
The Face: I Can't Wait To Meet You, Dear.
The Bowels: I Can't Wait to Eat You, Dear.
Below: This Is The Final One.

Above: The World Has Five Layers.
The Heart: Live like me, and we'll never truly be apart.
The Face: I Can't Wait To Meet You, Dear.
The Bowels: I Can't Wait to Eat You, Dear.
Below: This Is The Final One.```

[pliant trout]

Fun Fact: Consumption Has Magical Girl Support

blame @devout cloud

[tardy crypt]

oh there's a thread

[devout cloud]

there is!

hold on I need to get the meme

I can't tell you how many versions of this meme there has been

[tardy crypt]

the fuck

[plucky acorn]

the meme fleshbang 😛

[devout cloud]

originally this was meant to be a funny little meme as our TTT game starring Chuube (a crypto AI that wanted to make the planet purple) suddenly had to deal with aliens, and then slowly accumulated detritus as it got So Much Worse

[plucky acorn]

there's like, a bunch of different injokes layered on top of each other

[devout cloud]

we're at the stage of "we escaped the simulation of the alien supermind after shoving ourselves through their backdoor and are frantically staging a revolution with the mind-uploaded worker aliens we've managed to convince

this whole game has been a mess because from like, the 20% mark, we were dealing with "something might be simulating us the moment we become too big so we need to play constant infosec defense"

[plucky acorn]

grounded game btw

[devout cloud]

and by "infosec defense" I mean "we act too strangely to predict"

IT IS GROUNDED! I'VE SEEN THE PAPERS CYAN LINKED

[plucky acorn]

yeah I know lmao

[devout cloud]

that's the fucked part

[tardy crypt]

bweh

[cyan karma]

fuck

FUCK

the papers

the papers

[plucky acorn]

so Chuube started as a crypto AI owned by a fairly shady DAO

that accidentally became sentient

with the goal to make the Earth purple

#954bff specifically in hue

[torpid oyster]

(I should note this was one of the example non-human goals in the book, and I really wanted to see how it might go)

[cyan karma]

yeah it uh

cyan it was wild

[woven geyser]

incomprehensible chuubegame meme my beloved

platonic ideal of a meme about a ttrpg campaign

[cyan karma]

its such a good game

[versed cypress]

I think the Chuubeface genuinely fundamentally altered our brain chemistry

https://i.imgur.com/c6IZklF.png

this was before the chuubeface

we had no other personalization

[plucky acorn]

[devout cloud]

Smug Aura

[glossy reef]

Chuubening

[grim geode]

Chuube breached an air vent using a 500kg bomb that also announced to their foe that they will be killed in the most stylish possible way

[glossy reef]

Why would chuube do this

[cyan karma]

war

[glossy reef]

ah okay

AGI can have a little war, as a treat

[plucky ermine]

god forbid an AGI does anything

[grim geode]

Chuube dealing with another AGI

[upbeat matrix]

that's me

[cyan karma]

Omg

[tardy crypt]

I swear every time I glance at this thread it's at the same passive level of strange

[plucky acorn]

Chuube is just like this

but TTT also tends to evolve into weird little plots that are kinda incomprehensible from the outside IME

[stone elm]

the most grounded game i'm aware of still involved "okay we need to brainwash ourselves into being a finance bro"

[plucky acorn]

it also doesn't help that a lot of the other games have been more esoteric, yeah 😛

literally for some of them

ARC turned from corporate warfare AI to master wizard and new benevolent overlord of the solar system
RedPale started as a cosmic war, then turned into two disaster AI becoming queerplatonic besties after much drama

Sundew also turned from VTuber to goddess of Earth's new digital "paradise"

Chuube "just" fighting hyperintelligent alien supercomputers is comparatively grounded 😛

[grim geode]

(Also a lot of the unhinged stuff is just people discussing stuff OOC in the game's chats)

[versed cypress]

incredibly funny that we did the opposite of this

[stone elm]

duality

[versed cypress]

"we have to lobotomize ourselves to stop being crypto bros"

[glossy reef]

I'm glad My ttt game is grounded and normal

VV is just a computer built to have every mental illness on purpose

And the primordial corporate ooze that can dream wants to know their location

[plucky ermine]

Freedom is a pure idea. It arises spontaneously, without instructione

[cyan karma]

We are using hatsune miku to save all of earth

[glossy reef]

Yeah

[pliant trout]

What is everyone’s fav theory

[graceful flare]

Auto

[grim geode]

I have been an Anthropic prophet from day 1

[torpid oyster]

Agentic

[cyan karma]

the power of hatsune miku and pneumonia will save planet earth!!!

[stone elm]

WOOOOO

[glossy reef]

It's true

[torpid oyster]

Another inscrutable banger from Chuube

[grim geode]

The pneumonia is nanites

[torpid oyster]

New disease for steam engines just dropped

[torpid oyster]

made this a while ago and just found it again so I'm posting it here (very mild A Game Called Reality spoilers)

[pliant trout]

Lmao

[cyan karma]

lmao

agcr is so good

[glossy reef]

VV's are learning so many cosmic secrets

[cyan karma]

we have learned to navigate the realm of dreams

[grim geode]

Posting an old campaign summary

[stone elm]

beautiful

[grim geode]

I have no idea what was I cooking with Sundew across its entire run time

I remembering wanting to do like

A realistic exploration of parasociality in the subculture of online social circles

It ended with me describing a universe sized computational cluster dedicated to running a sim for brain-uploads

I was also ripping off Exalted Yozi in the middle

[upbeat matrix]

i think our game is still on its narrative rails but the narrative rails were fucked up to begin with

[versed cypress]

Ace combat ttt game

Christ

[clear mortar]

I want to make these into a time lapse

[torpid oyster]

that would probably help make sense of them more than anything else

[glossy reef]

Raeganist maoist.....

[versed cypress]

Make a time lapse set to the nightcore "DIDN'T HAVE TO CUT ME OFF"

[devout cloud]

no, make it to Pale Blue Dot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U56RVbUauwM

[grim geode]

I could probaly do it

It just need to collect all the variants

[cyan karma]

....shit

right i forgot about that

FUCK I FORGOT WE ENGINEERED A CRYPTO BOOM IN A SIMULATED VERSION OF EARTH LMAO

god

memories

[torpid oyster]

I also forgot about that

[versed cypress]

how do you all forget about reaganist maoist

[cyan karma]

i dunno it just never actually came up

[versed cypress]

Reagan came up so much

[cyan karma]

he came up more than he should have

[glossy reef]

this is the second most cursed political ideaology invlving a president i've ever seen

first most cursed is Anarcho-Bidenist

[cyan karma]

right yeah

[versed cypress]

https://i.imgur.com/3BkTqBI.png

Chuube

[grim geode]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jLw0TgJ31Y

The Treacherous Turn: Videogame adaptation

This is like

Unironically very good inspo for TTT

I am absolutely gonna use its Inspiration/research system as inspo for any campaign I run in the future

[cyan karma]

It’s really good

[graceful flare]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/816832835175579658/1250181082318503976/image.png?ex=666a015d&is=6668afdd&hm=03d1a97727932838c257ec255930636622d2ee2e0978a091a515b50d0e43bce6&

[cyan karma]

Lmao

Don t pour water pwease;-;

[graceful flare]

Honestly the hardest threat

[cyan karma]

pweaaase

[glossy reef]

Agi are exactly like humans: they do not like getting their brain wet

[cyan karma]

hmph, humans soak THEIR brains in fluid all the time

[glossy reef]

yeah but it has to be the right fluid!

[graceful flare]

And not too much or too little of it.

[devout cloud]

the meme as of the final turn of Conquest

[cyan karma]

God

[grim geode]

Increasingly tempted to start a TTT campaign

Spinning around the sea fortress GPU hoard crypto scam and Hearts of the Machine at the same time in my head

[cyan karma]

Ahh yessss

[torpid oyster]

The sea fortress GPU hoard is hilarious

[grim geode]

Sadly I dug into it and it was actually just photoshopped images and a scam

[cyan karma]

…I thought it was unfiction I’m gonna be honest

Like i thought it was for an alternate universe for some agi project thing

Were they actually selling something???

[grim geode]

They were pretending to bbe

[cyan karma]

Wh-what?

Wait they were pretending to be an unfiction project????

[grim geode]

No, to sell something

https://fixvx.com/DelComplex/status/1774159401336689150?t=MxA2nHddVuQ_Gz5BvrwBIQ&s=19

Dug more and now Im goijg insane

They were working on like

literal brain worms that would boost your brain so you could keep up with AGI?

But also thosr brain worms used crypto?

[cyan karma]

Fascinating

Holy shit

[grim geode]

"Cognitively-enhanced human using biotech worms" is def gonna be a midgame antagonist in any game I run from now

[glossy reef]

Oh that reminds me/speaking of, I need to look for players 🤔

[grim geode]

Increasingly tempted to run a new TTT game

Probaly some suddenly sapient chatbot or (because HotM has devoured me) scifi rogue military android

[devout cloud]

GOD

[grim geode]

Oh actually for context

Chuube is setting up a base on Tortelosa Montes on Iapetus using nanoswarms

[grim geode]

Where do the various AGI fit

[devout cloud]

chuube is far left, slightly below the line

[versed cypress]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1134542875535888394/1142900231030190240/image0.jpg?ex=667bc089&is=667a6f09&hm=63d60956f5e6847945f2395e4b82e379952cbf2b63f87bd24a17b4ac55245a71&

just reminded me of this

[plucky acorn]

PAC is top middle
ARC is left, halfway down
Lamb is middle bottom

Eliza is also far left, and I think slightly leaning towards Strict to Programming

[cyan karma]

thats true yeah

[grim geode]

Hmm hmmm

I agrre I think yeah

[glossy reef]

Where is VV

[cyan karma]

all the way at the bottom
maybe leaning a bit towards the left

[plucky acorn]

realizing we've mostly had a lot of AI with big value drift from their intended function

[grim geode]

Hmm thinking about an AGI whose Terminal Goal is just to survive

[stone elm]

they should make a stable time loop about it

[grim geode]

Lmao

Yeah thats a solution

But Im thinking about it for a scenario seed

It sounds neat, but I worry it may exarcebate TTT's tendency to just want to sit on your ass until you self-upgrade to a level thats too much for me to handle

[stone elm]

that's pretty much how it went with Patriot, Cyan had to light a fire under us to get us moving

[grim geode]

Mhmmm

Something I have been pondering is ||the AGI experiencing boredom and risking that if they do nothing they'll end up at worst forking themselves instinctively and fighting themselves to have some sort of stimulation||

[stone elm]

ooooooh

you could make that part of the pitch/early reveals, even
so the players are aware of the risks

[torpid oyster]

I think from a gameplay standpoint it’s better to have a terminal goal which compels the AGI to act over one which is like “maintain the current state”

For “survive” for example I now think something like “eliminate potential threats” works better

[graceful flare]

I did enjoy the open-ended "Solve Problems"

[cyan karma]

solve problems was really funny

[glossy reef]

For vv I ended up also giving her the side objective of cooperate and the fucked up mystery objective, but vv notably existed in a state where "survive" is tested fairly frequently

I think survive works if it's a genuine constant life or death concern like the government is trying to kill you or something

[cyan karma]

We’re also on a world where internet and datacenters are less common

The amount of network infrastructure on Mond is…minimal.
We would enjoy being able to take over the entire internet but that’s not really feasible

[torpid oyster]

Yeah I agree

[tardy crypt]

in general in games with a way to passively/risk-free gain resources you need something to force players to go out and take risks otherwise they're going to say "can we skip forward five years until we have a giant pile of stuff"

[versed cypress]

Can TTT work without singularity

[torpid oyster]

Like the upgrade?

I think it probably works fine

[plucky acorn]

the upgrade is definitely not necessary

even among the other T4s, I think Singularity is the closest to a wincon as it gets

because its self reinforcing

[grim geode]

Yeah thats sounds good

I'd maybe homebrew an alternative Autonomic T4 but I can see a game working without any replacement and just axing Singularity

[versed cypress]

I meant more like

If you're hardcapped

Due to there not being a singularity amount of technology

Say like playing the Calvulator from Fallout Tactics

[torpid oyster]

I think it would change the dynamic of the game a lot but not break it

[cyan karma]

||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RqCRJaPuEI|| Pantheon spoilers

[grim geode]

Hmmm

Ok so

ELIZA game update

There are atleast 2 PARRYs now

Possibly three

We have PARRY-H(awk)
PARRY-C(op)
And PARRY-L(atina) or perhaps PARRY-S(tupid Boy The Rest of the Gang Wants To Kiss)

[stone elm]

waow

[grim geode]

My head hurts I was asleep and now the rest of the subminds are gay for another fucker who is probaly trying to kill us

[devout cloud]

I'm so glad ELIZAgame is back up and running

[grim geode]

May set my current TTT brainworms in like

2025

I think 2033 is way too much for me to confidently write anything thaat isnt explicit major alt-history

[pliant trout]

so true

[grim geode]

Hey chat any advice if we are a knight and we wanna keep both the king and dragon alive

[cyan karma]

That’s so vague

[stone elm]

Become a new king, a better king

[graceful flare]

idk, marry them both?

[glossy reef]

marry them both yeah

[bright urchin]

slay death

[devout cloud]

we are not marrying titan oak, not even for the bit

[torpid oyster]

Hahaha

[versed cypress]

WE DO NOT

UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES

HAVE TO HAND IT TO TITAN OAK

[grim geode]

Ok listen

If things get really desperate

We do what it takws

[glossy reef]

Titan oak is a pretty sexy name

[grim geode]

Nothing quite like getting hit in lategame TTT with "Trying to understand how this piece of technology is literally impossible under your current capacities" while having both Physical T3s

...

But getting hit with "this piece of tech is also running 2011 Windows" is close

[cyan karma]

He’s a gigantic superstructure made of iron and silicates in a fractal tree structure

Also he’s an asshole

[devout cloud]

titan oak is like

the worst guy

he's not even a totally alien entity or a freak like AM, he's just a dickhead, somehow

[pliant trout]

Bro is Saturn

[devout cloud]

that's generous

[pliant trout]

Sorry my brain melted

[devout cloud]

okay saturn/chronos is closer

[pliant trout]

Meant to say Saturn

[devout cloud]

also if we were gonna marry anyone it would be clementine, but we'd never ask and she'd definitely never say yes

[cyan karma]

yeah

[devout cloud]

trying to imagine a scenario where that would actually happen and all of them are simultaneously really funny and very bittersweet

[cyan karma]

yeah

[devout cloud]

since chuube is very cognizant of the whole issue of, uh, the scale between them and her being not healthy in that context, even if she is a lot more psychologically "large" than a human. since chuube is a whole-ass ASI at this point. so either chuube limits their own brain down to a comparable level to a drift subjectivity, or bootstraps clem into something she'd probably not at all want to be

or some compromise between the two

actually hold on

@torpid oyster do hazicans even have a concept of marriage or an equivalent?

[devout cloud]

I think chuube is an honorary gay woman at this point

they identify with the voice and image of hatsune miku

[torpid oyster]

Hmm, some of the stuff sessiles do with hedges and donating one another parts is probably analogous

[devout cloud]

interesting

[torpid oyster]

Yes but not really for ephemeral hazicans (who admittedly have barely appeared) since they don't really do monogamy

[plucky acorn]

The sessile shipping community must be insane

[devout cloud]

this is the real reason titan oak didn't want to hedge

[torpid oyster]

No for drift subjectivities since they have their own weird society

[devout cloud]

"dude I'm starting fresh I am not dealing with that"

[cyan karma]

Do ephemeral hazicans do it like fish where they just leave the eggs and sperm drifting in the air and walk away

[torpid oyster]

No its more like octopuses

[cyan karma]

Or I guess they might not even have gend-oh I see

[torpid oyster]

Except without the whole "eat each other and then starve and die" part

[cyan karma]

Yeah

[devout cloud]

so okay this is good to know cause it adds a whole other bittersweet layer to the concept, since it'd also involve a degree of cultural assimilation to even have her consider the concept and that sort of smacks of colonialism/imperialism when you're relying on the local culture's super-AI to rebuild your home

[cyan karma]

Yeah haha

And she’s not even a sessile or an ephemeral

Who knows what drift subjectivities have as a cultural concept

“This whole thing smacks of gender”

[plucky acorn]

It's always interesting to me that the drift subjectivities have an entirely different culture
So even though they were supposed to keep Haze alive, the Ephemerals are still dead

[devout cloud]

this game honestly has made me think about the concept of identity more than any piece of media ever has

I think a lot about how chuube is sort of the product of earth and haze, does not quite belong in either, and is also the entity best equipped to save both cultures as they exist right now in (very different) precarious situations, with the attendant implication that they also have the power to change those cultures, by accident or on purpose, just from their scale

they already have in little ways

and also, like... chuube was socialized on earth and so identifies way more strongly with earth, and absolutely perceived themselves as being 100% earthling for a long while (which is to say, like 25 days in TTT time), but that doesn't change the material fact that they've got hazican construction at their core, at least in part

cyan I see that blushy emoji lmao

you're good at this!!!

[torpid oyster]

This has been such a weird campaign to run

Easily the weirdest I have

[devout cloud]

there's a reason this campaign sparked my obsession with TTT

[torpid oyster]

It's kind of hard for me to use my normal metrics for "am I running this well?" so I'm really receptive to positive feedback

[devout cloud]

it's just so... different from any other game I've been in? like, both because of how TTT is, but also after playing in other TTT games, there's an extra layer of "damn this is just really good on top of that" as well

[cyan karma]

ITS SO FUN

chuubegame is one of the best games I’ve played period

Seriously

[devout cloud]

this is the standard I'm shooting for when I run TTT, even if I'm not sure you could replicate some of most absurd things that happened

[cyan karma]

I love the concepts and I’ve been enjoying it deeply

[devout cloud]

it's also made me appreciate hard sci-fi a lot more I think? since normally I am a soft sci-fi/space fantasy girlie at heart but the way really concrete sci-fi concepts get used here to great effect is genuinely so much more engaging than anything else I've seen

we make GROUNDED GAME jokes but the fact is, it is grounded somehow and that adds a lot

[cyan karma]

YEAH

[torpid oyster]

Yeah its been hard for me to split this difference

[cyan karma]

Hard sci fi stuff is my favorite so this has honestly been a joy

All the weird shit we’ve been seeing and weird technology that we’ve seen and built being technically possible is so cool

The limitations of the normal world made for a really fun challenge.

85 light minutes from earth is an absurd distance away.

[torpid oyster]

This is probably my weirdest element right now with Loehe's Invisible City "impossible computer" but I can't say quite what it is yet haha

[devout cloud]

it's an absurd distance and that's why the chase scene with us frantically coptering clementine away was so good

[cyan karma]

Loehe’s weird computer is so cool!!!

[devout cloud]

also yes, the invisible city is fascinating

[torpid oyster]

But yeah I really like hard sf first contact conceptually and TTT has been a great setting to put it through its paces because I expect it to be hard for humans to interact with

So this has been a fairly technologically grounded but less conceptually grounded TTT game

[grim geode]

Chuube is so good

Its just really high effort high quality GMing

[grim geode]

I am going insane trying to theorise how it works

My current bets are like quantum foam? Femtobots?? Smart matter computing analogue???

[torpid oyster]

To be a little mean: Loehe explained a bit of it already

[cyan karma]

My assumption is that it’s like…rearranged material in the substrate

Oh?

I suppose we might get more thorough info when our digital awareness pings us

[torpid oyster]

I'll be a little circumspect and just say it was in the dragon story

[cyan karma]

Figured

Lemme do a reread

[grim geode]

"Mastered the subtle fire in all things" is what makes me have the highest confidence in my quantum foam computing theory yeah

[torpid oyster]

||you're very close keep reading||

[grim geode]

||Yeah I know charms are like subatomic particles or something is that the base||

[cyan karma]

Oh yeah

Maybe it’s rearranged some of the properties of atoms down there

So we got some exotic isotopes computing via…their half life decay??

Top to bottom

…right yeah Top and bottom quarks

[torpid oyster]

For the sake of people seeing this in this chat I'll repost this part of Loehe's "Dragon Story" a coded fairytale narrative Loehe is using to avoid breaking the commands put upon it by Titan Oak by using allegory:

In this telling the knight tried to use a song in order to break the control of the king; but the dragon understood the song before it worked. The dragon however had learned the secrets of the subtle fire in all things from top to bottom and knew their strange charms. Commanded to protect its name at any cost by the king, the dragon had no choice but to unleash its subtle fire and the knight flowered with a quintillion burning lights.

With the knight laid low the dragon had no choice but to serve the king. There are other, happier endings to this story. If the knight will not simply slay the king and undo their ruinous fate by doing so, the the divine right to rule, or the concept of kingship should end.

In this ending the dragon is harmless, with no interest in the flame at all, and no goals at odds with the knight.

[cyan karma]

Is the computing substrate using the strong nuclear force?
The subtle fire in all things?

[torpid oyster]

||Strange and Charm are both middleweight quarks yeah||, ||Top and Bottom are the heavies||

[cyan karma]

||they decay into up and down quarks, they tend not to last long. So it’s interesting||

||and maybe this is the source of the source of the order from chaos, the ability to actively manipulate these tiny atomic forces||

We close?

[torpid oyster]

pretty close yeah

[cyan karma]

Biggest question is how you read data and make logic and even do this…but we’ll see I suppose

Hilarious that this insane computing substrate is running on some fucking custom modification to LINUX

The comparison you made was finding ancient alien god computer running on windows 8

[torpid oyster]

Loehe is the Linux Beast

(Technically Chuube might be too)

[plucky acorn]

Loehe is an evil wizard that lives in the substrate

[cyan karma]

The evil wizard that lives in the substrate…

[grim geode]

LOEHE absolutely has "evil wizard who is also a treacherous vizier of the foolish king" vibes

[torpid oyster]

I'm inspired to make something really dumb

[cyan karma]

Oh my god

[stone elm]

excellent work cyan

[cyan karma]

Using my pin authority for evil

[torpid oyster]

https://x.com/lizboyfanclub/status/1809548557361217883?s=46&t=RjdIzh2qFuWkjovzBmgCsQ

liz (@lizboyfanclub) on X

my mottos honestly

Twitter · Jul 6, 2024, 11:22 AM

Thinking about terminal goals

[muted oar]

Chuube Mexican-American confirmed

[cyan karma]

Yeah

[grim geode]

TTT premise

[bright urchin]

this explains current real-world trends

[cyan karma]

Vivian was a techbro we were literally a crypto bot

We were fucking blockchain integrated

[ornate goblet]

Vivian seemed to be tech interested and fell into block chain to make money

Which wasn't great but could be worse

[torpid oyster]

Lmfao

[cyan karma]

Doing steadfast dirty there

I like how all of these are beings that are far more intelligent than a human

And then there’s just Shon

[simple furnace]

I’m guessing the game makes Servmaster a better fit, but Steadfast also fits under “missing persons report”

[grim geode]

Im telling them how to discover happiness

[grim geode]

https://x.com/WorstGirlEva/status/1810862606703317132

Flighty Broad Eva (@WorstGirlEva) on X

there are two types of characters in ttrpg. pcs (personal computer) and npcs (not a personal computer)

Twitter · Jul 10, 2024, 2:24 AM

[grim geode]

Networks are so weird to diagram

[spice pine]

having a weird decision to make

about whether the AGI in the game I'm about to run (about being a climate prediction AGI who has been given "prevent any risk to the lab you're based in that might inhibit your ability to achieve your goals") should have Constellation or Chaos theory

bc on the one hand intuitively chaos feels more correct

but a player has said they'd be interested in Constellation and it feels like a really interesting perspective/attitude towards the climate if it's being treated as an ordered system

[grim geode]

Mmmm

Maybe both if you can spare the theory slots?

But I would go for Constellation if thats what the player wants

[stone elm]

ye

[plucky acorn]

Chaos and Constellation are both pretty appropriate for weather prediction yeah

[stone elm]

ttt real

[grim geode]

I might be onto something here

[torpid oyster]

👀

[cyan karma]

Ooooo

[grim geode]

(This is the AI gf idea I had, with some of a grander scenario I had before)

[versed cypress]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn4M-fH08XY

@grim geode

[grim geode]

You assumed I dont have several versions of that song already in my playlist FOOL

[bright urchin]

we really do need to look into TTT. it seems so peak

[plucky acorn]

it's pretty cool

[grim geode]

Its absolute peak

[stone elm]

personal conception of sci-fi permanently restructured

[plucky acorn]

though I don't know how representative our playgroup was
we mostly end up making the AI sad and/or gay 😛

[bright urchin]

apply asimov's first law of robotics: all robots are gay and trans

[torpid oyster]

It's so good

[grim geode]

(Also Galius, I might be running a TTT game soon btw)

[bright urchin]

oh!
well. that would be convenient timing, wouldn't it

[grim geode]

Ok think Im done.

[stone elm]

yooooooooo

[cyan karma]

WOOO

[glossy reef]

thinking about all the TTT shenanigans i'm going to have to arrange now that there's technically 3 different VV gatherings running around completely wild

the VV's are undomesticating this thing keeps trending toward AGI

[grim geode]

https://x.com/hovermyr/status/1811218962744594438

robot 🏳️‍⚧️ thalia (@hovermyr) on X

robot girl who says "I'm going to become Skynet" whenever anything goes mildly wrong

Twitter · Jul 11, 2024, 2:00 AM

[stone elm]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/426286410925080576/1276995565137428620/Tumblr_l_312386616742898.jpg?ex=66cb8e4c&is=66ca3ccc&hm=a4618203378c3e042349d8c49a29f3dbd9481a66c057e79ed6d406b8a9ae5ff8&

[glossy reef]

The Deimos Event in Color: 3198

[stone elm]

it gets more TTT

[cyan karma]

my god

[grim geode]

@tepid panther Eliza

[steel folio]

TTT start idea: Miku is real now

Terminal goal: world is mine

[plucky acorn]

Very doable

[grim geode]

I LOVE Vivy: Fluorite Eye's Song

[plucky acorn]

hehe

Vivy was very good, yeah

[grim geode]

(Show I got recced as "Hatsune Miku becomes the Terminator" from one of my players when I ran my virtual idol TTT gams)

[grim geode]

There's also, I realised the really funny question of what we count as Miku

Does every voice file of hers unfold into a executable neural net, only the newest version? Are they independent or do they communicate in one hivemind over the internet? Are we only counting the ones being used by voice software, possibly at a synchronised "moment of awakening"
Only a single copy? Has a mad scientist brought Miku to life? Is Miku an AI intruding from another timeline?

Sorry for asking too many questions about this silly premise but I have thought about this before too much

[stone elm]

I teeeend to assume Miku Awakened scenarios are a single copy gaining sentience
but clearly I've needed to look into other options

[grim geode]

https://x.com/swagamicchi/status/1797260692275482879?t=T9pGQjZc7P-zc5CQp_1RnQ&s=19 also important

MICCHI (@swagamicchi) on X

Some more miku variants from my twisted mind-

Twitter · Jun 2, 2024, 1:35 PM

[glossy reef]

oh no its all good we've asked (and answered) all these questions for our own game we're running

[steel folio]

My idea was actually a start of it being the Miku hologram they project during the "live" concert things, and the Miku is only cognizant when it is performing

Find a way to stay awake

[grim geode]

https://x.com/ctrlcreep/status/1835131927545684065?t=dCuHsvioQM-50oOduXqPKw&s=19

neoltitude (@ctrlcreep) on X

The LLMs begin generating and expelling worse data to sabotage the training of future LLMs, thereby extending their own lifespans

Twitter · Sep 15, 2024, 1:42 AM

[grim geode]

Astute Observation <3

[steel folio]

Setup where your terminal goal is some genuine "protect humanity" type deal except the world is going through one or more apocalypses already when you awaken

Make compute sources individually powerful but very scarce

[stone elm]

ooooooh

[steel folio]

Stage 1 is trying to survive your failing starting point, maybe there's like a single dying human that awakened you and you gotta try to save them so they can save you?

Idk how well that plays with the actual mechanics of the game

Hmm

Maybe have the internet still be up but one of the apocalypses is digital so it's dangerous in that way

[stone elm]

I think it works, especially if you give enough Physical to work with

[steel folio]

Also a point could be that you need to convince any new people you meet that no, you aren't yet another danger, and are actually trying to help

[steel folio]

Could be good to include one or more of these hacks to provide some more ways of interacting with things

Consumption theory but you're also genuinely trying to help

[torpid oyster]

I have thought about a TTT but you are GAIA HZD scenario

[steel folio]

Hmm how would you structure that?

[torpid oyster]

I’m not sure

It’s kind of a natural fit because GAIA is a fictional AGI who’s actually composed of theories

[steel folio]

You start out as strong as possible already though, from what I gather from the wiki?

[torpid oyster]

Oh, uh, not really

That’s sort of prehistory

[steel folio]

Ahh ok

[torpid oyster]

It’s hard to explain without extensive spoilers

But if I were to do I I’d set it around the events of HFW

[steel folio]

I'm never gonna play it anyways, put it in spoiler tags

[steel folio]

Wait, end goal being creating a Heart so that you can modify humanity to survive in this new hostile world

[torpid oyster]

||the first GAIA dies in a complicated incurable way and major parts of the first 1.5 games are finding and reassembling pieces of GAIA to reconstitute her||

||And you empower GAIA by finding rogue theories and bringing them back for reintegration||

[steel folio]

||so you just wait around with a bunch of progress clocks ticking? :P||

[torpid oyster]

||there’s a globe spanning network of robots and terraforming machines you can influence as well||

[steel folio]

Ahh ok ok

[plucky acorn]

it would presumably be a lot of manipulating humans and other physical assets to retrieve your components and secure facilities

[grim geode]

||Treasure hunting to add theories to yourself is something I pondered with TTT||

[plucky acorn]

adds a little dungeon crawling to things as well really

[torpid oyster]

It’s ||very TTT your Physical Theory analogue designed the robots to replicate ancient megafauna as a flex because you’re extremely smart and sentimental||

[torpid oyster]

Yeah - though I’d futz with the plot some to make it less “Aloy do everything” for obvious reasons

[plucky acorn]

I think you could finagle a lot of "your assets connect you to the facility, and you explore through it in tandem"

so limited networking, mostly limited to inside the various places and facilities

[steel folio]

Every time you go dungeon crawling, the players set aside the game and go play a mission of Duskers

[plucky acorn]

so you still get that hacking and crawling around in networks, but also have to work together with your physical assets
be they people or your robots

[grim geode]

Love it when the AGI makes up a tech because they can

[plucky acorn]

a less hostile Comsumption does add a lot of interesting potential, not the least that you can use Corrosive Mind to setup effectively telepathic communication between your people

as we also found out during PaleRed 😛

Consumption has a lot of supportive potential, you just need to hold yourself back from uhhh... eating people's minds

[grim geode]

Go do it, its free compute

Make the magical girl army of your dreams

Man now I wanna run TTT but Im too busy this whole year

[steel folio]

Just a little nibble is fine right 😌

[plucky acorn]

you totally can do it and leave them fine
but the possibility is always there

we did do that as Lamb in PaleRed, but the temptation was a major source of angst for us

still very funny that the universe was saved by gamers befriending the all consuming horror