Dungeons and Dragons

[sand hornet]

Man this really fucks with Martials for that exact reason, huh

[pure elm]

seems to be this

One Spell with a Spell Slot per Turn
On a turn, you can expend only one spell slot to cast a spell. This rule means you can't, for example, cast a spell with a spell slot using the Magic action and another using a Bonus Action on the same turn.

does mean if you can cast spells without expending a slot, that still works

[modest echo]

unofficial changelog is up
https://rpgbot.net/2024-dnd-5e-transition-guide-and-change-log-everything-thats-different-in-the-new-players-handbook/

[cosmic geyser]

They’re keeping the index!

https://tenor.com/view/mashle-magic-and-muscles-hooray-mashle-magic-and-muscles-hooray-gif-3935425210237383604

[dapper fulcrum]

Sometimes im convinced that Hanlon's Razor is at play here
when its not that WotC is just spitefully putting martials down its just that they don't see anything wrong with how little they give them shit

like apparently one of the designers think the drakewarden ranger is overpowered. And they were satisfied with the OneDND ranger doing a measely 1d10 damage with a bonus action hunter's mark at level 20

[pure elm]

fun fact btw
Divine Favor doesn't have Concentration anymore

Hunter's Mark does though

[modest echo]

a lot of other Ranger spells lost Concentration iirc
so... they really wanted to keep HM concentration for some reason, but they made it easier for it to work with other spells

[dapper fulcrum]

4e did Hunter's Mark better

[cosmic geyser]

Now that I’ve had time to process this, I didn’t realize that cylinder spells had problems. Which is funny, since I’m in a campaign where I’m playing a Twilight Cleric, so I always have Moonbeam prepared…

[trail ferry]

i really got to be careful on dmg for this lvl 1 adventure

any dmg is a load of dmg

what's the dungeon crawl check list?

[frail hull]

Kobalds, slimes, and that one random skeleton .

[final phoenix]

gelatinous cube

[cosmic geyser]

||Giant Spiders||

[trail ferry]

in a lvl 1 scenario, when they are meant to fight something, and also something that isnt a boss, how many attacks should it be able to take on avg?

like the one random skeleton

[slender nexus]

1, or 2 if you roll low on damage, usually

[trail ferry]

Right!

[obsidian jasper]

Depends on the group

I pulled of some funky stuff on my dms because of how my characters are made

Two questions, is a character with like an ac of 21 at lvl 1 annoying for a dm and how can I make a character that can’t die but it isn’t annoying for the dm or the other players

[timber sleet]

honestly, im not a fan of level 1 campaigns because you have to be so exact with the balancing, theres a list of like 5 monsters that are acceptable to fight at level 1 and everything else will instantly down a level 1 adventurer

[trail ferry]

oh yeah, i`m only doing it cause 2 of the players NEVER played a TTRPG before

i`m feeling a bit tempted to just do a different game

but most of them seem to want dnd idk

[obsidian jasper]

Use a downscaled Revenant

Because the regeneration can be like a puzzle or at least my dm made it like that

That if we’d burn it it couldn’t regenerate

So I blasted it with fire spells while my friend chopped away at it

[trail ferry]

i did want to have base it on the darkest dungeon's warrens

the big flesh pig could be a revenant

[cosmic geyser]

This thing, right?

[trail ferry]

no

spoiling cause kinda gross(this could replace my boss idea)

[obsidian jasper]

Ye burn it

[trail ferry]

what's boring about lvl 1 is that i cant go super crazy with it

[obsidian jasper]

Make it lvl 2

Or 3

[trail ferry]

i'm just a lil worried lvl 3 might overwhelm the brand new players

[obsidian jasper]

You can give them a higher level allie

[obsidian jasper]

What class they playing as?

[trail ferry]

they havent made all of their characters yet but we have a bard and a wizard, 3 more on the way

[obsidian jasper]

Alr I can only speak for the wizard but if you add regen tell him to take chill touch

What would you do if no frontliners were in the party

[trail ferry]

i would probably get some healing items scattered in chests around the dungeon

more than usual at least

[obsidian jasper]

Are the beginners the bard and wizard?

[trail ferry]

no

[obsidian jasper]

Alr

Btw you’re a dm right?

Could you answer two questions for me please?

[tepid crane]

Why not?

[trail ferry]

tell me your wisdom

[tepid crane]

As long as there are solutions you can throw any problem at your players

[obsidian jasper]

I mean you could make the monster just knock the newbies prone

Then focus on the others

[tepid crane]

Well lvl 1 characters will probably fail their death throws

[obsidian jasper]

Huh?

[tepid crane]

But I think if you put a troll in a level 1 dungeon it should be their as a block they need to level up and come back to, or have some way to defeat it with a puzzle etc

[obsidian jasper]

I played a lvl 1 wizard and never had issues

[tepid crane]

Like luring the troll into a room with lava so you can fight it without it regenerating

[obsidian jasper]

I have fought a troll at lvl 3 with a party T-T like the only encounter I’ve lost in my time playing

Or tell the wizard to get chill touch

[tepid crane]

Wait you’ve only lost one fight ever in dnd?

[obsidian jasper]

Ye

Pretty much

Wait no, 2

[tepid crane]

What types of encounters did you fight

[obsidian jasper]

We lost to the troll after fighting by a young black dragon and a ton of fish people

[obsidian jasper]

Wdym?

[tepid crane]

Because while you can’t compare two games due to the fact dnd can be played completely differently at either table

I would like to know what you were fighting

And what level you fought the enemies at

[obsidian jasper]

When I lost?

[tepid crane]

When you won

And lost

[obsidian jasper]

So when I lost

To the troll

[tepid crane]

I’m confused on how someone could win every encounter except two over their time playing an rpg

[obsidian jasper]

I fought fish people, a young black dragon and then the troll

Lvl 3

Great old one warlock

Party was a thief and a fighter I think

[tepid crane]

There are some communication errors happening here I apologize

[obsidian jasper]

The last encounter I won

Lvl 5 hex paladin vengeance,

Dragonborn

That could turn to stone

I often play casters so I’m rarely near the enemies

But I also played paladin and barbarian

All kinda worked out there

For the other time I lost

[obsidian jasper]

Does the information help?

[obsidian jasper]

Lvl 3 or 4 wizard fighting cabbages and zombies

Failed a bunch of saves

Died

Hope this helped

[tepid crane]

Not particularly but I worded the question wrong

[obsidian jasper]

Alr

So what did you mean then?

[tepid crane]

How have you only ever lost two fights

I was hoping details would allow me to make sense of that

[obsidian jasper]

Power gaming

Variant human

[trail ferry]

im back

sorry i had to do something

[obsidian jasper]

Alr

Fox quest giver

Could you please

[obsidian jasper]

Answer these questions?

[worthy plank]

I mean

it's annoying for a gm that doesn't think of making them do saving throws they're bad at

21 AC means they're gonna be a combat monster

It also means, in all likelihood, one of two things

They are a dex god

or their dex is absolute trash

If their dex is great, their con, or strength, or one of the mental stats has to be bad

And if their dex is bad?

Knock them over

have fun watching the turtle try and get up

[cosmic geyser]

I don't even think you can hit 21 AC with max Dex. Or at the very least, that build is going to take a lot of effort to get rolling.

[worthy plank]

You can

Warforged or tortles

Oh wait that was talking about dex

right

yeah 21 AC at level 1 is some tortle or heavy armor warforged shenanigans

[cosmic geyser]

Lizardfolk can hit 20 AC with just max Dex + shield

[slender nexus]

There aren't that many saving throws available at low levels, are they?

But really IME going super high AC can often be most annoying for the character who invested in it

Because smart enemies will just not even try to hit them, they'll go for the squishier people instead

And so the high-AC character's experience is that their high AC never comes up, because nothing attacks them

Sentinel or powerful concentration spells help change this

[tepid crane]

I’ve yet to see High-AC adventurers armour block the pool of acid you grapple them into

[slender nexus]

Well, grappling them is somewhat challenging, since they have to have decent str or excellent dex

But targeted saves are mean

[tepid crane]

Maybe but it’s better then trying to just club them

[slender nexus]

Absolutely

[tepid crane]

Also spells

A tank probably doesn’t have the best wisdom save

[slender nexus]

Depends on the build, but yeah, there's usually two-three of dex/wis/int/cha that they're bad at

[trail ferry]

your pfp is very cute Lark

[slender nexus]

Ty! I appreciate the sneaky fox too

[trail ferry]

[slender nexus]

Is that a Vicksy emote?

[trail ferry]

yes

[worthy plank]

My cousin is running a sky-pirates esque game and I think I'm gonna go for a githyanki knowledge cleric

[arctic yew]

i need someone smarter than me

throwing cars is great in fiction because it instantly tells you "oh this person is STRONG strong"

but medieval settings dont have 20 ton metal boxes everywhere you look

what is a good replacement for that trope

[worthy plank]

A cart

A sufficiently large rock, lifting a portcullis by themselves, uuuuhhhh

[arctic yew]

i mean

i could be goofy and go the one piece route too

[obsidian jasper]

A graviturgy wizard that dislikes you

Or the other characters

[frail hull]

Using a battering ram by themselves

Or , since they are the medevil equivalent of a tank. Throwing a mounted knight in full plate.

Or , to take a page from Encanto, have them roll up to town Carrying a half dozen donkeys on thier shoulders.

[tepid crane]

Anvil

Or horse

[obsidian jasper]

What about a dead bullete?

4-legged tank

[random gull]

When the hero throws a spear and it aoe's on impact due to the force

[obsidian jasper]

That’s a great one

Or the character yeeting a spear a Kilometer

[arctic yew]

I mean

I already decided that instead of spears or arrows,this monster of a paladin throws cannonballs for ranged combat

So that makes sense

[tepid crane]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-vinland-saga-thorfinn-thorkell-gif-15044388

[obsidian jasper]

That’s who I thought of

[tepid crane]

Thorkell is a great example of a hulk character

He rarely uses common weapons

Instead it’s “GIANT ROCK” or “LOG”

[obsidian jasper]

And he went blind on one eye and didn’t care

[worthy plank]

man

I just realized my character for this upcoming game is very inspired by my favorite character in this liveplay I watched lol

[arctic yew]

maybe that is just me being dumb but

my favorite example of someone using monstrous strength is probably toji on his second run

the pseudo-machinegun that he did with those rocks was

damn

[tepid crane]

I don’t get the reference sorry

[pure elm]

Just read that they kept the UA Hide version, which is hilarious

Because this means Hide now turns you Invisible when you succeed

And you stay that way until someone actively searches for you successfully

So you can now RAW duck behind a wall for a moment, and then walk around fully Invisible

[mellow rivet]

That's not too far off how I'd play it anyway. You need your rogues to be allowed to move out of cover and take down targets or you're consigning them to using ranged weapons only

[tepid crane]

Bit weird that this means enemies don’t have object permanence though

[mellow rivet]

true

[pure elm]

Yes, but it has a lot of very goofy implications

You Hide outside a building you want to get into
You are now invisible and can just walk around in the open

[mellow rivet]

my players also lack object permanence so it seems fair

[pure elm]

And since IIRC the DC of the check to find you is your Stealth result, if you are good enough at Stealth or using something like PwT it might be actually impossible to reveal you for enemies

But on the flipside, with Hide changed there is no way to actually conceal your position anymore

Since Invisible doesn't do that

[timber sleet]

kinda reminds me of how in my campaign rn im so good at stealth that im basically invisible as long as i have some amount of cover
i have a 20 in dex, plus expertise in stealth, and we're level 8, so thats a total of 11 stealth, plus i have a cloak of elvenkind, so i have advantage on stealth checks and everyone looking for me has disadvantage on their perception checks, plus we have a shadow monk with all the same things except for 1 less dex, so they have a 10 in stealth and advantage, plus they can cast pass without trace, giving us each +10 to stealth

so all in all, i have a +21 to stealth with advantage and they have a +20 with advantage

and things looking for us have disadvantage on perception

so a lot of things literally cannot see us

once i hit level 11 i get reliable talent and my minimun stealth even without pass without traces goes up to 31, and next level our shadow monk is taking a 3rd level in gloomstalker ranger, making them invisible in darkness

[obsidian jasper]

You could also do that

Are there dnd settings with almost no magic?

[pure elm]

Dark Sun, sorta

[craggy cloak]

Magic is such an intrinsic part of D&D that I'm not sure; I can think of Dark Sun, where magic is rare and comes at huge cost

[modest echo]

it'd be tricky to release a setting book with the note "you can't use most of the material available for the fame for this"

[craggy cloak]

I can also think of a few Domains of Dread where outside of the adventurers theres no notable magics

[ashen hollow]

Stealth is... stupid easy to crack in 5e. Then again, players need to be infiltrators in most situations unless the GM is running enemies as blind and deaf until the players open the door, so eh

Making stealth easy isn't the worst thing.

[tepid crane]

Dark Sun mentioned

[arctic yew]

mostly because people treat stealth as skyrimg where you can crocuh and be invisible

but rules as written you need to actually have something to hide behind

[obsidian jasper]

And other question(sorry for asking so much) do you guys think I can make resurrection darker, like instead of taking money and all it takes || flesh equal 3x the amount that the person has|| TW for meat

[pure elm]

but you literally can do that now, as long as you have any bit of cover to duck behind as you do so

[arctic yew]

i mean,there is something similar in the game with ressurection

lots of people ||cut off their fingers and give it to their wizard to keep,so if they die they can cast the spell on the severed fingers||

[obsidian jasper]

Huh

That’s an interesting idea

[arctic yew]

new 5.5e thing?

[pure elm]

yes

as I mentioned above, when you successfully Hide you now turn Invisible

[tepid crane]

Could do something with having to get them some parts like if you died of bloodloss you would need to be given blood while being revived

[next canopy]

I think i may be becoming a Drow appologist

[modest echo]

How so

[next canopy]

I dunno the "I'mabove everyone and evil" vibe is getting to me. I'm a shame to my dawi ancestor

[obsidian jasper]

What’s your favorite race everyone?

Or species, sorry idk what it’s called

[tepid crane]

Species

[tepid crane]

Generally apologists try to downplay the evilness of what they like, I think you are just a fan.

[next canopy]

but that kinda the best bart tbh

(i may have begun with warhammer before DnD5)

[tepid crane]

I don’t understand sorry

[arctic yew]

"why would i try to downplay the evil,the evil is the ebst part" is what i understood

[tepid crane]

Right the word choice just confused me

[timber sleet]

homebrew spell idea: "Great Strength"
range: 30 feet
target: 1 creature
duration: 1 minute
verbal and somatic components
increases the strength score of the target by 4 for the duration
upcasting increases it by an additional 1 per level

ive come up with this spell idea but im not very good at balancing, any idea what level of spell itd be and what classes would get it?

oh, almost forgot to mention

its concentration

[worthy plank]

I am sad no one in this party seems to have any healing

So I feel obligated to pick a healer so we don't fuckin die lmao

[obsidian jasper]

is there usually a healer in a party?

[worthy plank]

The game is balanced around assuming someone is capable of healing, aye

[obsidian jasper]

so that's why my party members kept dying

[slender nexus]

A healer is really not required in 5e, and is arguably a significant detriment

What you want is a caster who picks up Healing Word to get knocked out people up

But it's almost never worth the time to heal in-combat when they're not at 0

(There are exceptions, particularly the area temp HP granters)

[worthy plank]

Well we don’t even have one of those lol

[slender nexus]

Ahh yeah that's non-ideal

[worthy plank]

lmao

[craggy cloak]

Generally 5e falls into the "the best CC is Death" category, and thus damage prevention is usually stronger; think of spells like Aid, Shield, etc. This is generally why clerics are so good defensively - it isnt the heals, its the wide variety of damage prevention spells on top of some very sticky damage spells.

[pure elm]

Aid is actually also a heal 😛

It heals when you initially apply it, so you can use it as a ranged multi heal once per rest

[obsidian jasper]

I just realised my characters heal either bc of killing enemies or have a spell that only works on self

[craggy cloak]

Hooray!

[obsidian jasper]

What’s dnd afterschool club?

[craggy cloak]

I run d&d at my public library on the clock, this is a wotc official support system for it

Afterschool Club is just what it sounds like

[obsidian jasper]

Ah

[worthy plank]

Healing Word's lack of availability is so fucking annoying lol

[slender nexus]

Maaaaagic initiate time

Though actually IIRC that one doesn't let you use normal slots for your MI spell

Gift of the Metallic Dragon does though

[worthy plank]

Magic initiate does not

And gift of metallic dragon is… not very fitting?

[pure elm]

it does now

[worthy plank]

Wait really?

[pure elm]

yeah in the new PHB MI now lets you cast the spell with slots

[worthy plank]

Does it let you pick the stat you cast with?

[slender nexus]

Good change tbh, basically all the new free spell feats let you do so

[pure elm]

I believe so, yes

[slender nexus]

So MI was a bit of a relic

[worthy plank]

pffff lmao

Wisdom or Int Eldritch Blast be like

[pure elm]

could be wrong though, I don't remember the specific wording on it

[slender nexus]

Wait, the stat isn't based on the list it came from?

Ah

[worthy plank]

Oh yeah this reminds me, have you guys heard about how a quarterstaff can be used with every stat except Con?

[pure elm]

it might still be

Magic Initiate: You learn two cantrips and a Level 1 Spell of your choice from either the Cleric, Druid, or Wizard spell lists. You cast these spells with INT, WIS, or CHA. You can cast the spell once per Long Rest without expending a spell slot. When you gain a level, you can swap out these spells for others on the same spell list. This feat is repeatable but you must learn from different spell lists.
summary someone put on reddit a few days ago, though it's not the specific wording

[slender nexus]

Huh, let's see,
Shillelagh - wis
Hexblade - cha
Artificer - int
how do you get dex?

[worthy plank]

Monk

[slender nexus]

Ahhh right

[worthy plank]

there are actually two ways to smack with charisma

but they're both on warlock

one is hexblade

The other is shillelagh via tome

[slender nexus]

Huh, that's a fun combo, never thought of that

[worthy plank]

I see nothing letting you cast it with slots lol

[pure elm]

it was in there in the UA, and I heard it's still the case

[worthy plank]

god I hope so

[pure elm]

a funny thing is also that any feature that lets you cast something without expending a slot is now way stronger

[slender nexus]

I'd be shocked if it doesn't

[pure elm]

because of the way the new multiple spells rule works

[slender nexus]

Oh?

[pure elm]

because it no longer stops you from casting multiple spells in a turn
instead you can only cast one spell using a spell slot per turn

[slender nexus]

Ohhh right, it's specifically spells from slots

Presumably to avoid hitting items mainly but that is a nice bonus

[pure elm]

so stuff like a free Misty Step from say Fey Touched or similar, is now much stronger

because you can use that and still cast a spell with your action

[slender nexus]

Makes for some interesting resource management too, do you use the free cast early to keep the spell flexibility of your slots, or use your slots first to keep the action flexibility of the free cast

[worthy plank]

hhhh I wish someone picked literally anything that could heal

[slender nexus]

Let them live (or die) with their mistakes

If enough PCs die you'll eventually get one with a way to heal, statistically speaking

And if they don't die you didn't need a healer

[worthy plank]

ah yes

the machine learning path

xD

[slender nexus]

Minimizing loss by maximizing losses

[obsidian jasper]

Is there a martial I can use to copy characters out of media or stuff like that that isn’t just melee so that I can also scale beyond early game?

Class

I meant class

[slender nexus]

All the martials except Monk can do ranged pretty much just as well as melee

Which class is appropriate really depends on who you want to copy

[pure elm]

Monk can also do ranged fine

if you go Kensei

[obsidian jasper]

I mostly use anime characters as inspiration and then change some stuff so I like it more or so it fits the campaign theme

[modest echo]

you coooould use a Paladin or other half-caster and reflavor a little

[obsidian jasper]

So basically make a whole new class and use paladin as a reference?

[slender nexus]

Kiiiiind of, they can do ranged but they lose Stunning Strike, no?

Reflavor = change aesthetics but not mechanics

[obsidian jasper]

Ah mb

[cosmic geyser]

IIRC they don't lose SS if the ranged weapon is a monk weapon
NVM, it says melee weapon

[modest echo]

no I mean, you use the Searing Smite spell, as-written, but you've renamed it "Blazing Blade Style" and your character doesn't think of it as a spell

[obsidian jasper]

Ah

I like that idea

[modest echo]

Change the names, talk to your group about what you want it to mean, and it'll work alright

[obsidian jasper]

Alr thx

[pure elm]

Yes, but you get a consistent three shots with a longbow this way

Also speaking of Monk
They look really good on 5.24

[obsidian jasper]

Are there any prominent mind control spells btw that give temporary control over enemies?

[pure elm]

Might honestly be among the top for martials now

[pure elm]

Crown of Madness, Dominate Person

[obsidian jasper]

I meant also enemies that aren’t human and doesn’t crown of madness just make an enemy attack the nearest thing?

[pure elm]

Dominate Monster

[slender nexus]

Dominate Person/Monster are the classic mind control spells

But they're higher level and lower duration than more limited options

E.g. Command

[pure elm]

Suggestion also

Just need to be more judicious with wording on that

[obsidian jasper]

Alr thx

[cosmic geyser]

There's also geas technically, but uh... ||ain't nobody got time for a 1 minute spell||

[pure elm]

Geas also gets weird

[slender nexus]

Just gotta Wish it out

Someday I will use Wish to make an offensive Simulacrum

Someday

[pure elm]

They really need to just delete Sinulacrum already

Even the "fair" uses of it are just stupid

[obsidian jasper]

Geas was like the only one I knew

[slender nexus]

Nahhhh having an entire second full caster to play is entirely on par with, er... One whole extra die on a crit

[pure elm]

not to mention using it to circumvent the Wish downsides

but yeah even the basic use of "we have a copy of one of our party members"
is fucking dumb

Simulacrum and Mind Jar are IMO spells they just need to fully get rid of
there is no way to use them that isn't kinda broken

[slender nexus]

They really just need an explicit delineated between spells intended for use by the GM as plot devices and ones players can ever use

[sand hornet]

I dont even know how they'd balance martials in 5e tbh.

The game seems to be built to favor Casters

and general magic use

[slender nexus]

Cut off levels 11+ would be a start

You still have a lot of issues before that, but that's the section where martials get little to none and casters get everything

[sand hornet]

I guess, though I think Higher Levels are at least conceptually appealing

Even if modules never use them :v

[worthy plank]

Fuckit, Monklic time

[tepid crane]

So what is 5.5 about?

[modest echo]

In what sense?

[tepid crane]

Is it a dungeon crawler, a set piece wargame, fantasy storytelling game, etc

[sand hornet]

It's dnd

[tepid crane]

“Dnd” has described a lot of things

What type of dnd is it

[modest echo]

Which category was 5e in?

[tepid crane]

Set piece

[modest echo]

then I guess it won't be changing categories

although calling 5e a wargame feels off to me

[tepid crane]

most groups I have seen spend at least half the session in a combat with a unique premise that the GM cooked up, maybe it's just local play culture but while reading through some modules it feels like you just get strung along across encounters.

[modest echo]

my uni dnd club doesn't even use combat maps

[obsidian jasper]

The group I was in had the magic ability to basically turn everything into a session of combat

I think it was just that I was the only person trying to use other means bc I had spell slots and next to no no

Hp*

[elder remnant]

I mean, most D&D rules are combat rules. Contrary to what some people claim unless there are rules for something people will assume it's not part of the game.

kinda why lancer is so cool, it has rules for downtime stuff and roleplay. They are adding some stuff to 5.5 for both roleplay and exploration, which I appreciate. I doubt it'll be enough for people to start playing that way that weren't already but its a step in the right direction.

[modest echo]

"5e is more of a wargame than Lancer" is a novel and exciting take

[elder remnant]

Idk maybe it's a difference in player bases, every game of lancer I've played has at least a few minutes dedicated to roleplay where I haven't written a backstory for a D&D player character in like 2 years. Your milage may vary.

[modest echo]

Genuinely, this is very good data to have, because I think there's a lot of localized play patterns that sometimes get ignored or passed over. that's why I brought up my uni club, I would not have theorized the way they play, and yet, they're doing that

[tepid crane]

It is very baked into the roots admittedly

[elder remnant]

Again it may be a cultural thing, I'm willing to bet people irl probably play way more roleplay and narrative focused games of D&D than people on discord, but it's been years since I play in person sadly

[cold cloak]

I ran a lot of D&D Adventurers League a while back and 5e under those conditions can definitely feel very gamey.

Like players approaching it in a gamey way.

It's partly the organised play formula at work, but the formulaic way their one shots were written meant that once you played a few it was easy to have a groove of resource usage and to approach it like an instanced dungeon in an MMO.

[frail hull]

The GM of the game I am currently in requires a back story to any character before you make one, make sure it fits the theme of the game. Usually works to keep at least some role-playing going. We even have entire 3 hrs sessions with no combat once in a great while.

[arctic yew]

Pbp isn't working so I have to go and do session prep again

God how do I do this

[craggy cloak]

On mobile so short summary but i like to think of the adventure as a plant; you need seeds, shoots, roots and fruits. For a session specifically i think of how to pace mine; i do 4hrs with a 15min halfway point break. I figure out if theres a combat and how to pace that, social encounter format, etc

[arctic yew]

i know what the basics are

they are currently in the middle of the forest

they are gonna go back to the main city to awsner the call of a crime family that they have connections with. one of the players wants to have a talk with the boss,who is the only person who might know who the hell turned then into a dollar store werewolf

when they get there,they will be in the middle of a rave party(....yes. medieval rave party. dont ask),and the representative of the family will come and ask then to investigate the dissapearance of one of their member

it is related to another crime syndicate of chefs that will...serve then. and to get a chance to rescue then,they would have to infiltrate a mansion of a local noble that got a invitation that leads to their ever-shifting seaborne restaurant

....so there are a lot of locations to juggle

[cosmic geyser]

I'd keep loose tabs on the major locales, the NPCs associated with those locations, and any stat blocks you might need in case a fight breaks out or you need to do things like a quick skill check or a saving throw. Maybe do a little bit of practice getting into character for the major NPCs.

[obsidian jasper]

Guys I haven’t looked into it much, can I easily go from dnd 5e to the new thing?

[tepid crane]

Yep

[obsidian jasper]

Are evil campaigns harder to pull off?

[tepid crane]

Like in general?

No

Watch bloodkeep

[obsidian jasper]

Alr

Then why are they so rare?

[worthy plank]

Because people don't like being evil lol

[tepid crane]

People play the power fantasy game to be a hero

[obsidian jasper]

Ive met like one person that played a good character so far

And what evil alignment will least likely make my dm think I’m just a murder hobo?

[frail hull]

Most people are real bad at playing evil characters, so most evil campaigns either devolve Into back stabbing, or a spiral of trying to outevil each other and nothing gets done.

[obsidian jasper]

Alr

[cosmic geyser]

Lawful Evil, but be prepared for your GM to raise an eyebrow if you say your character is Lawful Evil

[obsidian jasper]

Alr

Can I also get away with neutral evil?

[frail hull]

Sure, just don't feel compelled to follow any law that doesn't benefit you, only do jobs if you get paid.
Evil doesn't just mean kicking puppies, but even small things like, agreeing to help the farmer with some goblins, but only if he gives you his winter savings. Stuff like that.

[obsidian jasper]

I wanted to make an evil character that just kinda doesn’t care for morals but bc it takes too much recourses doesn’t do overly evil stuff

[frail hull]

That could work, the trick is more don't do so much that the character gets killed by thier own party, or the local authorities until they are powerfully enough to not care.

[obsidian jasper]

Alr

So make it seem like I’m following the rules while I’m not?

[frail hull]

Yup.

Agree to go arrest some bandits, but they all died trying to escape, nothing you could do. Found the kings long lost magical artifact, but got attacked afterwards by a dragon and it stole it from you while you were already week. Have them Agree to restock your group with some decent gear then go " find the dragon" and return the artifact in a week or so and get both rewards.

[obsidian jasper]

Huh

I like that idea

[frail hull]

Granted it depends ALOT on how the rest of the group feels, if they are cool with it, can be fun,. But if it is a bunch of paldiens, might need a different PC.

[obsidian jasper]

I’m the only person of all the people I’ve played DnD with that played a paladin as far as I know

My paladin was true neutral iirc

[frail hull]

Ah, should be okay then

[tepid crane]

Neutral Evil is great! You can deal with being self serving and a coward without being one of the worse evils.

[obsidian jasper]

I just want the evil alignment that lets me scheme

[frail hull]

Had a campain idea and am looking for some ideas. Basic premise is based around the idea of " Disney princess I want songs, but sung in minor key" for example, Moana's song goes from a longing to explore to a more sinister tone. So I was trying to come up with some antagonistic characters based on this , so far I have Moana as a pirate warlord, Elsa as the ruler of a frozen wasteland, Merida as an avenging ranger assassin etc. Just looking for a few more ideas, not direct copies, but more inspired

[cosmic geyser]

Bandit Queen Mulan

[worthy plank]

Imperialist Kida

[dapper fulcrum]

sounds like a campaign im in

[modest echo]

Someone remind me how Wildshape works in 5.0

[dapper fulcrum]

old 5e?

2 per short rest

[modest echo]

You transform and get a bunch of HP, and when it runs out, you turn back? Or do I have that wrong

[dapper fulcrum]

limited to a certain CR unless you're a Moon druid

oh do you mean OneDND?

im not sure

[modest echo]

no i do mean "current" 5e, not 5.5

[dapper fulcrum]

oh you use the actual Beast stat block

you keep your mental stats and alignment but you have to use an actual new stat block for your character

when you lose all hp you do revert yes

Moon Druids can turn into Elementals at higher levels

[modest echo]

Okay
Cool

I think Wildshape and Ultraman rules are the same

[dapper fulcrum]

its also the same rules with (self-targeting) Polymorph, minus retaining the mental faculties bit

Polymorph lets you be a giant ape which you cant do even as a 20th level druid

I've been thinking of making a Stars druid reflavored as a henshin hero
or even a tokusatsu with the Giant Ape as a big mech equivalent

[frail hull]

How is it going?

[dapper fulcrum]

on a break while we're doing other ttrpg stuff

DM is busy with education stuff

[frail hull]

Ah, how did it go before the break?

[dapper fulcrum]

we were trying to convince a neutral princess to join our rebel cause

[obsidian jasper]

Yo guys my friends and I are going to play in a totally new campaign with a totally new DM soon (if we find one), what are some things I should do to not make the DM’s life hell, things that may not be as obvious for players btw

[cosmic geyser]

If you're playing a Monk, don't use Stunning Strike every chance you get.

[obsidian jasper]

I never play monk

I meant more like what alignments should I maybe not use or what behaviour

[cosmic geyser]

Oh. Uh... don't be Chaotic Stupid (That's when people pick Chaotic Neutral as their alignment and decide that that means their character is lulrandom)

[obsidian jasper]

I have chosen chaotic neutral bc of how the guy that helped me set up a character described it so basically neither good nor evil and mostly self serving?

[cosmic geyser]

Yeah that's fine

[obsidian jasper]

Is a party possible where some are evil and some are neutral

[cosmic geyser]

Yes, but you need a good reason as to why your evil party members are helping out the local townspeople. Really, a party with any and all types of alignments work. It's just that "evil" characters usually need more of an incentive to do things as opposed to "good" characters imo

[obsidian jasper]

Alr

Thx

And for power gaming and not falling off in late game what would be the best classes in your opinion?

[tepid crane]

Pick a cleric, you don’t have to worry about what spells you pick and you can just club stuff if you get confused

Also pretty survivable and cool rp

[obsidian jasper]

Do they have the same damage potential as warlocks?

[tepid crane]

Yeah

[cosmic geyser]

I don't really like power gaming in D&D. But if I had to choose, it would be either one of the full casters (specifically Cleric, Druid, or Wizard), Paladin, Rogue, or Artificer.

I think they might have more damage potential than warlocks.

[obsidian jasper]

I can’t use the wizards full potential cuz like every game I was in banned chronology

[tepid crane]

When I play clerics I focus more on buffing my friends

But they are great casters for damage I guess

[cosmic geyser]

I know Tempest Cleric can pump out damage, but yeah I prefer using Cleric to buff/heal my allies

[tepid crane]

Watch the Crap guide to dnd series if you are new to dnd

[obsidian jasper]

I’ve played with one cleric so far and that was the party healer, in my current party (different party) no one really relies on buffs as they either are walking fridges or just don’t care about their chcaracters

[obsidian jasper]

I’m not new it’s just that most people I’ve asked couldn’t help me when it comes to power gaming

I guess kinda

[tepid crane]

Oh are you trying to powergame?

[obsidian jasper]

Ye

[tepid crane]

Oh

[obsidian jasper]

Big numbers make me happy

[obsidian jasper]

Alr thx

Played a paladin/warlock

Was fun

But didn’t feel like good enough I guess

[cosmic geyser]

Honestly? If you just want big pp damage, pure Paladin is probably better

[obsidian jasper]

Alr

And can someone explain in a few short sentences what about chronology is so hard to balance?

It just looked like a support subclass

To me

[cosmic geyser]

Arcane Abeyance

For posterity's sake, here's what it does:

A creature holding the bead can use its action to release the spell within, whereupon the bead disappears. The spell uses your spell attack bonus and save DC, and the spell treats the creature who released it as the caster for all other purposes.

Once you create a bead with this feature, you can't do so again until you finish a short or long rest.```

Hold on...

NVM, I thought the bead didn't have a time limit

[slender nexus]

Wizards are the most powerful class in the game baseline, Chronurgy gets post-roll unconditional forced rerolls and Arcane Abeyance lets you have two concentration spells going at once, bypassing the single most important limitation on casters

[cosmic geyser]

I'd also add that, because they can add their Intelligence modifier to their Initiative rolls, it's very easy for a Chronourgy wizard to potentially blast through all of combat before it actually happens.

[slender nexus]

Oh right they also have that, yeah, initiative bonuses are bonkers in 5e

[obsidian jasper]

Fireball with this is funny

Or must be

Alr

Thx

I’ll just now need to think if I want to be a paladin, a warlock or a wizard

[tepid crane]

How often do you all write letters in game?

[arctic yew]

Hey,can someone help me make this world feel less

....empty

Idk why it feels so barren

[cosmic geyser]

I think having settlements on the green islands would make it feel less empty, especially sincea good portion of this map is just open ocean

[tepid crane]

Throw an oasis or 2 in the desert

[slender nexus]

Add a decorative sea monster or boat to the sea

[arctic yew]

Fair enough

[tepid crane]

Trying to think of a fun curse for a frog helmet

It grants the user the ability to speak to toads

[modest echo]

Turns your head into a frog's?

[tepid crane]

I could see that being very funny

[obsidian jasper]

Make the continent have a big ass wall

The biggest one

[obsidian jasper]

Your intelligence decreases to that of a toad while wearing it

[obsidian jasper]

Btw is titan a wasteland?

[arctic yew]

rocky and mountainous

the land of giants in that world

[obsidian jasper]

Ah

What if you add skeletons of giant animals?

[trail ferry]

Flying whale

[obsidian jasper]

I hit a total bottom when trying to make a new dnd character

Idk it just doesn’t work, do you guys have advice?

[tepid crane]

Re-watch Monty Python and fixate on a new background character

[obsidian jasper]

Alr

I had one idea

Or I got one

[stone hollow]

how can i have fun with monk

[modest echo]

Go fast
Stunning Strike

[dapper fulcrum]

Stunning Strike works on any melee weapon
so if you have high enough strength you can Stun someone after bonking them with a greatsword

[slender nexus]

Also works well with Whip with Dedicated Weapon

[dapper fulcrum]

if you're playing in a Magic Item-rich campaign you can do some silly stuff with monks and the like

[slender nexus]

Have a reason to use your mobility, really. Monk is most fun when you're zooping past their frontline to stun the Lich or whatever

[stone hollow]

ah

hmmm

i might actually play a spellcaster of some kind

idk how to feel about stunning strike being my big thing

[slender nexus]

Yyyeah, I really wish Monk didn't have Stunning Strike

Since then they could give Monk other combat features

[dapper fulcrum]

Stunning Strike gets a bad rep when shit like Hold Person and Psychic Lance exist

i've seen DMs nerf sneak attack and stunning strike while allowing spells like hypnotic pattern and wall of force unimpeded

in some people's minds the monk is simultaneously the worst class they can make fun of AND the most OP class they need to put down

[slender nexus]

Yeah, it's one of those features that's definitely powerful, but gets overvalued by the design team

Because the value ceiling is admittedly super high, but in practice between ki limits, the lower DC on Monk stuff, and being tied to melee attacks, it often underperforms

Very white-room strong

[dapper fulcrum]

meanwhile, Hold Person, available at T1 and scales with a stat that isn't competing with other abilities

[stone hollow]

tbh im just trying to find something to have fun with cause i feel burnt out on stuff like paladin, warlock, and artificer especially

either doing a full caster or a full martial for this campaign

[tepid crane]

Play them as a western monk

[craggy cloak]

As a DM, i think monks main strength is mobility; you can basically get to any objective or any squishy wizard/archer ever

The later subclasses do a great job of giving you lots of utility

[cosmic geyser]

Stunning Strike also has three things over Hold Person:

1. no creature limit (yes I know Hold Monster exists, but that’s a 5th level spell)
2. no concentration
3. the primary resource for SS is fully restored on a short rest
   Giving a monk any means of ignoring opportunity attacks basically makes the melee requirement of SS moot. And if it’s a flying enemy? Step of the Wind doubles your jumping distance, and Slow Fall reduces the amount of fall damage you take as a reaction.

[dapper fulcrum]

dragonhide belt also ups your DC

[cosmic geyser]

Stunning Strike is one of the things that makes Monk super good. Granted, I don’t like that there’s no limit to it in the 2014 version of the game both as a player and as a DM, but monks being able to potentially stun anything and everything is what makes it worth playing as a class.

Nerfing Sneak Attack now… that’s just stupid. Rogue only gets one attack unless you’re either playing a subclass that gives you an extra attack (and that’s limited to Swashbuckler and Soul Knife in 5e) or you’re doing two-weapon fighting (and that’s eating into your bonus action, which is extremely valuable for a rogue)

[stone hollow]

Hmmm

How's peace cleric

[pure elm]

Very good

You get a free mini Bless that you can stack with Bless

[obsidian jasper]

Yo guys I have a question, when I make my characters I try to make them as good as can be with fitting feats and high stats so they’re just good at being their class or good at what I want to play them as, is that power gaming?

[modest echo]

"power gaming" is a very unhelpful concept imo

If you're trying to make a character good at their intended role, that's just playing the game

[willow wadi]

Yeah making effective and optimized characters is power gaming

[obsidian jasper]

alr

[willow wadi]

Power gaming isn't a good or bad thing but its a reasonable use of the term

[obsidian jasper]

what class would you say is good for being a glass canon, bc my party has a tank cc and all and I don't want to be tanky and deal damage so the pther guy is also important

[modest echo]

Blaster Sorcerer

[modest echo]

My experience is that the majority of the time it's used in a derogatory way

[obsidian jasper]

alr thx

I've never played a sorcerer so far

[willow wadi]

Warlock is pretty good for glass cannon

[frail hull]

Strangely monk also fits glass cannon.

[tepid crane]

I hope the starter adventure has a dungeon and a dragon in it for the new 5.5

[frail hull]

I belive the reason it's generally not a well received class is that not only do almost everything a mo k does cost ki, but either eat up the bonus or reaction.
Take the SOW and SS combo. That's already going to cost 2 ki to pull off , and since it uses your bonus action to use SOW you only have your base 2 attacks to attempt it.
Now if it works? Huge payoff, if it fails, your monk is about to eat a world of hurt. And if you used your feather fall to you have no reaction to deal with the archers lining you up.

[dapper fulcrum]

goblins in a caravan trail once again

[frail hull]

Boo

[craggy cloak]

a proper goblin adventure would be fun if they leaned hard into it

personally i hope they keep some of that "tutorial for game mechanics via fair/carnival/town event" energy from some of the modules

i really love setting up low-stakes places to get players familiar with the rules

[tepid crane]

I prefer a test of fire, “OH SHIT THE RED DRAGON CULTISTS ARE OUTSIDE”

[craggy cloak]

My rewrite of Tyranny of Dragons began like that

the opening question of the campaign was "Tyreal, your evening in the inn is being rudely interrupted by the fires currently blazing across the ground floor, what do you do?" and introduced the PCs over the next few minutes as they got out of the inn and into the combat with kobolds

it was a fun change of pace, introducing PCs each round and a few more kobolds/cultists as we went

was a good test of some reworked CR stuff to make level 1 combat feel good

[obsidian jasper]

I don’t like most Martials

[stone hollow]

What casters are just really really good at doing damage

[modest echo]

Evoker wizard

[worthy plank]

Sorcerers, warlocks built like damage cannons, clerics have some real sweet damage spells

[slender nexus]

Evocation Wizards are the classic blasters, Sorcs get almost as many good damage spells and can burst for a bit more with metamagic

Light Clerics specifically get the on-curve fire spells, other subclasses are pretty lacking in nuke damage

Good sustained damage though

[cosmic geyser]

Tempest Cleric can max out damage on lightning- and thunder-based damage with their channel divinity if you want a once-per-short-rest nuke.

Not as good as Light in terms of reliable damage, but it’s something to keep in mind

[slender nexus]

The issue with Tempest is for some reason it doesn't give access to Lightning Bolt

And AFAIK there's no way to get it on-curve

[cosmic geyser]

Huh. It doesn’t learn lightning bolt. Weird, but also not since it gets call lightning instead

[dapper fulcrum]

Tempest 2 Wizard/Sorcerer X
that's the go to maximized storm blaster build ive seen people do

[cosmic geyser]

That build is probably why I assumed Tempest had access to lightning bolt

[slender nexus]

Makes sense, means you'll be behind on spells known but that's most important at 5 and 6

[cosmic geyser]

They’re both full casters, so you do still get the full amount of spell slots. All you really miss out on are 19th level Feat and Signature Spell/Sorcerer capstone

[dapper fulcrum]

not all classes have good capstones

[slender nexus]

Full slots, but you don't get fully-leveled spells known

[dapper fulcrum]

and gunning for level 20 isnt feasible in all campaigns

[cosmic geyser]

God a max level scribes wizard/tempest cleric would be stupid

[slender nexus]

But once you get Bolt at 7 you're mostly fine, it's just level 5 and 6 where other casters get Fireball/Bolt and you're stuck on upcasted level 2 spells that's painful

(Could also go Wizard/Sorc for first 5, but then you miss out on Cleric proficiencies)

[obsidian jasper]

Alr I’m now the main damage in my party, we got a martial as a tank, a Druid and and a rogue, what class and subclass can help me deal out a ton of damage?

[cosmic geyser]

If my purpose is to do as much damage as possible with lightning spells, I’d go the wizard/sorcerer route first and then pick up tempest cleric later.

[slender nexus]

Medium armor and shields are really nice, but yeah

I might even get Cleric 1, Wizard/Sorc 5, then go back for Cleric 2

[cosmic geyser]

That could work too. You could also grab mage armor. Bonus points if it’s from Eldritch Initiate -> Armor of Shadows invocation

[slender nexus]

I wouldn't recommend spending a feat for Armor of Shadows, Mage Armor already lasts 8 hours

(Warlocks don't get Mage Armor on their list, so it's more worthwhile there)

You also just get a lot more AC from medium armor + shield

[cosmic geyser]

checks notes

You do. Costs money to get the better stuff, but it is better. Also yeah, these armor proficiencies do tend to come with shields, don’t they

[slender nexus]

Yeah, I'm not sure if there's any way to get Medium Armor prof without shields lol

[cosmic geyser]

Me: about to say moderately armored
Moderately Armored: grants proficiency with shields as well

[cosmic geyser]

1st: which martial?
2nd: going off of your preferences, probably either wizard, sorcerer, or warlock. Depending on how far you want to stretch the definition, artificer and bard can also work

[obsidian jasper]

1st a barb I think

Or a fighter

Def a goliath

[cosmic geyser]

Oh first level? Ignore the bard part then

[obsidian jasper]

Ye we start at lvl and I like scaling

[obsidian jasper]

Not very far I want like to genuinely feel useful by doing a lot of damage but like end idk shortly before the dm gets really frustrated

Or is that too far?

[cosmic geyser]

I can’t speak for arti, but bard at level 1 is 100% support caster. You don’t really get to be the major damage dealer until either level 6 (lore bard specifically) or level 10 (every other bard) thanks to Magical Secrets (tl;dr choose two spells; they are now bard spells for you)

[dapper fulcrum]

going in melee at level 1 is rough

[obsidian jasper]

I never said I wanted to go melee

I just want big damage so the party doesn’t need to worry all the time

Or do I can at least defend myself

I’m aiming to go closer to glass canon than all around as I don’t want to outshine the goliath

By tanking and dealing a lot of damage

[cosmic geyser]

So for casters, that really only leaves sorcerer, warlock, or wizard.

[obsidian jasper]

Alr which one can deal the most damage during the game (if we exclude things like power word kill or stuff like that) I can’t use chronurgy btw

Bc I don’t hate my dm

And he’s a bit new iirc

[dapper fulcrum]

chronurgy is nuts

[obsidian jasper]

Never been able to try it

[cosmic geyser]

Those three do damage from the outset. The difference lies in how they deal damage:

Warlock is, imo, probably the “weakest” of the three since it relies more on Eldritch Blast to deal damage as opposed to spells like Fireball. The trade-off is you regain your pact slots on a short rest, and most regular warlock spells are more about utility than outright damage anyways. You also get Eldritch Invocations at level 2, which allows you to get more damage AND utility out of Eldritch Blast.

Sorcerer vs Wizard imo comes down largely to whether or not you want to be able to cast more lower level spells and/or buff your spells with metamagic (sorcerer) or be really good at casting a lot of spells, like way more spells than you would as a sorcerer (wizard). Definitely an oversimplification of the differences between the two

Emphasis on “weakest” btw. I can’t stress this enough, the Eldritch Invocations at level 2 for Eldritch Blast make up for the class’ lack of raw damage in favor of utility (or in the case of Eldritch Spear, really fucking massive range)

[obsidian jasper]

I’m mostly aiming for damage, as we have to other that also have a lot of utility

I think

So I know wizards the best class in dnd

[pure elm]

Mountain Dwarf

[obsidian jasper]

So the choice is between a sorcerer and a wizard?

Or is a sorlock stronger than a sorcerer?

[dapper fulcrum]

WotC moment

[dapper fulcrum]

damage wise yes

BAEB is a massive threat especially with Spirit Shroud

[obsidian jasper]

I don’t know what BAEN stands for sorry

[dapper fulcrum]

Bonus Action Eldritch Blast

[obsidian jasper]

Ah

[obsidian jasper]

Ye I like the freedom of the wizard but the wizard feels like I have a water gun compared to other casters in early levels

[dapper fulcrum]

at level 7 with a 2 warlock 5 sorc mc spread with a two turn setup (first turn, BA shroud, second turn EB+BA EB)
that's 2d10+2d8+(cha x 2) on turn one
then 4d10+4d8+(cha x4) on turn two

[obsidian jasper]

Hmm

Interesting

Is there a way I get the potential of a wizard but also nice numbers of like other classes?

[slender nexus]

Oh right

[obsidian jasper]

Bc the wizards seems to be strong only bc they get so much spells and not bc of their features

[dapper fulcrum]

i'd argue that a lot of wizard features are actually super powerful

like the evoc's intentionally superior version of careful spell that doesnt require resources

or the War Wizard's great defensive utility

or the Abjurer's growing defense capabilities

or the Bladesinger

everything about the Bladesinger

I

[obsidian jasper]

Don’t bladesinger have to balance two stats?

[dapper fulcrum]

I'm happy that oneDnD is giving Valor Bards and Eldritch Knights the Bladesinger Cantrip Attack

[dapper fulcrum]

compared to a monk that has to balance three?

Wizards already want decent Dex

[cosmic geyser]

It doesn’t iirc. And even if they do, thyme’s right: they still want a decent dex anyways

[obsidian jasper]

Alr

So if you had to rank the wizard subclasses what would the top 3 be and what’s the best sorcery subclass in your opinion?

I know warlock

[dapper fulcrum]

Clockwork or Aberrant Mind

[cosmic geyser]

Wizard is kinda hard because a lot of them are good.

[dapper fulcrum]

because of the free spells and extended spell list alone

[obsidian jasper]

Also damage wise

[dapper fulcrum]

Evocation

[obsidian jasper]

I heard utility gets outclassed by some others don’t remember which ones though

[cosmic geyser]

Scribes can swap damage types to damage type from a spell that’s in your spell book

[obsidian jasper]

I guess that’s strong but is that the only feature going for it?

As of now most promising sound the sorlock, the bladesinger, (I might get chronurgy if I ask nicely and can somehow come up with why Tf I get it)

But I have no idea

[proud osprey]

making a west marches

[obsidian jasper]

Thank you for the answers and advice everyone

[proud osprey]

need a starting town

[obsidian jasper]

I hope it’s Alr if I come back later if I have more questions (if you’re currently still writing a response I’ll gladly take it)

[obsidian jasper]

Like one that officially exists or are you making your own?

[proud osprey]

i’m making it up

[cosmic geyser]

Scribes wizard can also create a magical scout that can cast your spells and whatnot, upcast 1st/2nd level spells, and save you from damage at the cost of temporarily losing access to spells. The big reason why the damage type change is big is because you can do nonsense like the cleric multiclass (see conversation between Lark and I above) and also potentially only need elemental adept once.

[obsidian jasper]

Alr thx

[cosmic geyser]

I'm more partial to the "City of Adventure" kind of starting town, but it's ultimately gonna depend on the kind of vibe you want with your West March

[proud osprey]

starting town gonna be very wild west

[obsidian jasper]

What exactly is a west march?

[cosmic geyser]

Gotcha. If that's the case, In my experience, what I did once was make it so that additional locales were added over time. That made it such that the players had a reason to cooperate with each other, lending itself to a strong sense of community within the campaign.

[proud osprey]

hard to explain. like uhhh decentralised d&d

[obsidian jasper]

Uhh this feels kinda weird, I like want the wizard spell freedom but like the abilities and all of the sorlock as like evocation wizards are kinda boring from what I’ve played so far

[obsidian jasper]

Alr

[proud osprey]

a play style which centres less on “scripted” plots and more on strictly emergent gameplay experiences AS plots

where there isn’t a party but a pool of players who choose to adventure when/where they like

[cosmic geyser]

Yeah, that's a good way of describing West Marches. It's good for players who can't always play at the same time each week

[obsidian jasper]

Ah

Alr

[obsidian jasper]

Does someone know a solution to this?

[proud osprey]

feel like the starter town should have some, but not all, early game amenities

like it should have a blacksmith, but certainly no magic shop

a physician of some sort but not a powerful healer or alchemist

a church, but one with some very basic magical benefits if any

[stone hollow]

i think im gonna make a homebrew cleric

[dapper fulcrum]

ive been meaning to run Lost Mines of Phandelver but with a wild west angle some time

Wild West and/or an Eberron theme

in the first mission
instead of coming across a raided wagon they instead
get chased while driving a wagon by goblins/Last War deserters on horse/wargback

[cosmic geyser]

Not gonna lie, I was going to suggest Phandalin as a template to build off of. Not helping things is that The Dragon of Icespire Peak is also built like a West Marches campaign

[proud osprey]

nice

alright i need three low level out of town quests

maybe a bounty

found in the inn

[obsidian jasper]

Are bladesingers good?

[proud osprey]

shrug

everything is good

[dapper fulcrum]

its a wizard

even if its abilities were subpar compared to others its Still A Wizard

Cantrip Extra Attack is crazy DPR and/or utility in a fight

[obsidian jasper]

I mean compared to like a sorlock or other wizard

[dapper fulcrum]

Your AC becomes absurd at a high enough level

and your DPR gets real good at level 6 once you get the aformentioned Cantrip Extra Attack

[obsidian jasper]

I stell get all the wizard spells right?

[cosmic geyser]

Why wouldn't you get wizard spells for being a wizard subclass?

[obsidian jasper]

I dunno

[dapper fulcrum]

you still get all the wizard spells

[obsidian jasper]

Man this is such a predicament

[arctic yew]

i like to put my party's height on this site every once in a while

idk why but

its funny to me

[willow wadi]

always fun

[cosmic geyser]

Klup!

[arctic yew]

indeed

a rare grung

[obsidian jasper]

Alr so this sucks, I like the freedom of wizard spells and the later on full caster wizards but in early game I like to have a melee weapon, I can’t change subclass later on and sorlock doesn’t get all spells

Anyone got an idea

[obsidian jasper]

I love how everyone has like an outline of a character and then there’s just a pic of a frog

[dapper fulcrum]

Crossbow

you dont have to melee just carry a crossbow around like the good old days of 3.5e with its non-refreshing cantrips

[obsidian jasper]

Never played 3.5 e

[cosmic geyser]

Wait... wizards can pack heat?!

[obsidian jasper]

Bye Alr

It’s like idk it feels weird if I have like spells but use a crossbow

I guess maybe I could talk to my dm

[dapper fulcrum]

hmm vibes wise you might not like it but its a valid way of playing

[obsidian jasper]

But like some of the wizards themes especially early on are kinda boring same with the features

[dapper fulcrum]

the light crossbow is just a decent starting weapon overall

[obsidian jasper]

Like a hex blade can regenerate and gets a bigger crit range

And with like evocation I can protect my allies

And that’s kinda it

Or am I missing something big?

[obsidian jasper]

I think I get one

[dapper fulcrum]

yep you get one in the wizard starter kit

[cosmic geyser]

They don't unfortunately get to start with a crossbow (unless something changed and I missed it). They do get proficiency with it, which is just really funny to me.

[obsidian jasper]

So

Ye

[dapper fulcrum]

really?
must be misremembering

ah, warlock starts with one

[obsidian jasper]

Crossbow and now I just need to find a wizard subclasses I like or find out sorlocks get disintegrate, solar idk the rest of the name, power word kill, crown of stars and other fun spells

[cosmic geyser]

You could do a Divine Soul Sorcerer and get the entire cleric spell list on top of the sorcerer spell list.

And it's just dawned on me: Divine Soul Sorcerer + 3 levels Warlock (2 if it's 2024 Warlock) allows you to do the Thorn Whip + Spirit Guardian combo...

[obsidian jasper]

Do I get the spells I mentioned or some way of getting the wizard spells?

[cosmic geyser]

So the spells mentioned are specifically due to how Divine Soul Sorcerer and Warlock works

DS Sorcerer, as I said earlier, gains access to the cleric spell list on top of their regular spell list. Which means you can grab Spirit Guardians, which is a really strong 3rd level spell for clerics in general

Warlock at 3rd level gets the Pact Boon. The specific build would have you pick the Pact of the Tome, which allows you to take three cantrips from any other class.

One of the cantrips you take is Thorn Whip, which is traditionally a druid cantrip. The combo, which only becomes available for you at level 8, is to cast spirit guardians and then pull enemies into the aura with thorn whip

[obsidian jasper]

We Alr got a Druid

Already*

And I wasn’t aiming for aoes again, as it’s always aoes which are often saving throws or just make it easier but it seems like that’s a good idea

[cosmic geyser]

Oh. If you didn't want to focus on AOEs then either Warlock (whether it be a sorlock build or even pure warlock) or bladesinger wizard is going to be your best bets for single-target damage. And remember that wizards do start with a quarterstaff, so you will have a melee weapon on you.

[obsidian jasper]

Do you think I might be able to change my subclass or something

Like sorlock would be perfect if I could get all spells

And bladesinger seems to come close

[cosmic geyser]

If you mean every single spell in the game, that's impossible

[obsidian jasper]

I meant the wizard

Which has many

But I can’t just take one thing and give it to another class

[cosmic geyser]

No you can't, because that would defeat the purpose of making these classes unique. And besides, both sorcerers and warlocks get access to spells that wizards can't get access to like fire storm and hunger of Hadar. And the latter is largely unique to warlocks.

This isn't even touching on the things that only sorcerers and warlocks can do like flexible casting, metamagic (sorcerer) and eldritch invocations (warlocks)

[pure elm]

Wizard already has the best spell list tbh

[obsidian jasper]

Alr are there early level spells which mimic those of warlocks and sorcerers

And is a wizard good as the main damage source of the part?

Party*

[cosmic geyser]

Yes

[pure elm]

you're a caster, you'll be fine

[obsidian jasper]

Then I just can build wizards properly

I played a necromancer and an evocation wizard

The necromancer felt better when playing and did about the same damage

[cosmic geyser]

Like both thyme and I were saying before, you can't really go wrong with wizard in terms of subclass.

[obsidian jasper]

But then why do they all feel kinda lifeless?

Like blade singer and chronurgy feel special

But evocation seems kinda boring

[cosmic geyser]

Because the idea behind the original wizard subclasses is that you become an expert of that school of magic.

Like Evokers get really good at evocation magic

Abjurers get really good at abjuration, etc.

Their whole things isn't "here are some new ways to play a wizard," they're more "you are one of the bests at casting spells from this particular school of magic"

[obsidian jasper]

And sorcerers and warlocks have more flavor in their subclasses?

[pure elm]

Evocation is quite good actually

Sculpt Spells is really useful for avoiding friendly fire

[cosmic geyser]

Their thing is that it sounds boring flavor-wise in comparison to Chronurgy/Bladesinging

[pure elm]

I mean, Chronurgy is also busted tbh lmao
though I'd say the ways in which it is, are also not that flashy

[obsidian jasper]

But it’s

[pure elm]

Bladesinger is mostly "Wizard, but your defenses are even better now"

[obsidian jasper]

✨time magic✨

Btw I played an evocation wizard

It didn’t feel special

It just felt like playing any wizard

And the sculpt spell is like really underwhelming

[pure elm]

yeah but most caster subclases will be like that

because their main power just comes from spellcasting

[obsidian jasper]

Compared to like a life steal or a stuff like that

[stone hollow]

so is melee cleric generally worse than cantrip cleric?

[pure elm]

generally I'd say yeah

[stone hollow]

gotcha

i thought so

[cosmic geyser]

Melee cleric? Sounds like a weird way of saying Paladin /s

[stone hollow]

lol

[obsidian jasper]

OATH IF VENGEANCE GO BRRR

[pure elm]

Toll is really good as an offensive cantrip

[obsidian jasper]

Of*

[obsidian jasper]

One of my favourites

[stone hollow]

Making a cleric subclass partially inspired by lancer's saladin rn and i was trying to decide whether or not to give it potent cantrip or divine strike

[pure elm]

there is also always the option of Blessed Strikes now, so really go with what you think fits more

but overall I'd say Potent Cantrip is a slightly better option

but really, neither moves the needle that much

[stone hollow]

i see i see

[obsidian jasper]

Is there a difference between custom lineage and variant human btw?

[cosmic geyser]

I do think Potent Cantrip fits a little bit better with a Big Sal-themed cleric yeah

[pure elm]

Custom Lineage can go +2 in a stat and take a half feat

for 18 starting stat

[obsidian jasper]

So I can go 20

[pure elm]

or 17 and a good feat

[obsidian jasper]

At lvl 4

[pure elm]

which sets up for a half feat at 4

[cosmic geyser]

Thematically, it's also there if the very specific race option you want isn't available in any of the other source materials. That's why custom lineage gets darkvision 60 feet as a potential option.

[pure elm]

doing something like +2 casting stat and take Fey Touched or Telekinetic is pretty good for a lot of casters

[obsidian jasper]

My character has eleven lineage anyway, so I’ll give him the fey touched feta bc I like eladrians

[pure elm]

makes it easier to take Warcaster and Resilient: Con later

[obsidian jasper]

Alr thx yall

I feel really torn bc I like flavour of the the sorlock but the wizard always wins

But at least Ik what I want from each one

[pure elm]

Telekinetic especially good on Clerics, for funny shenanigans with Spirit Guardians

[cosmic geyser]

Oh you missed my thing on Thorn Whip + Spirit Guardians earlier

[pure elm]

Telekinetic lets you do it as a BA; so you can Dodge as your main action 😛

[cosmic geyser]

But, and hear me out: what if you do both thorn whip and Telekinetic?

The dodge is also really good though

[pure elm]

Spirit Guardians is such a cheesy spell

especially if you abuse the part everyone forgets about
the speed reduction

[stone hollow]

It's gonna be fun on this subclass cause I'm giving it the ability to become large lol

[slender nexus]

If you take Magic Initiate: Druid, you can be both, thanks to the wonders of Shillelagh

[dapper fulcrum]

Custom Lineage can net you a 18 to an ability score at level 1 if you use Point Buy

[stone hollow]

Working on my Guardian Domain Cleric, I got the spell list so far
1st: Shield, Absorb Elements
2nd: Immovable Object, Vortex Warp
3rd: Crusader's Mantle, Pulse Wave
4th: Otiluke's Resilient Sphere, Fire Shield
5th: Bigby's Hand, Wall of Force

[cosmic geyser]

I think you could do shield of faith over either absorb elements or shield imo. It’s already a cleric spell, but imo it fits in a little bit better with the theme of being a guardian

I just don’t know which one you’d want to take out.

[stone hollow]

that could work well!

my current plans are to basically make a frontline/defender cleric that can also project a big magical armor thing like my favorite x-men character

[dapper fulcrum]

oh boy thats a very loaded spell list
all the big control/protection spells in one subclass

[stone hollow]

you think maybe its too much?

[dapper fulcrum]

i think so

[slender nexus]

Depends on their other abilities IMO

[dapper fulcrum]

shield and absorb elements in one subclass at level 1 is overtuned imo

*a subclass with access to armor

[slender nexus]

It does get a bit silly with Shield of Faith also being on the Cleric list

Maybe Heroism as an alternative?

Btw Vortex Warp is a delightful spell, I really like having it on a Cleric subclass

[dapper fulcrum]

Heroism and Shield of Faith
Warding Bond could work as a prepared spell, since guardian themed

[stone hollow]

maybe insted its shield of faith and either armor of agythys or compelled duel?

oh wait heroism

yeah i like that

debating on whether or not i make the size change idea a regular feature or a channel divinity

[stone hollow]

maybe something like
Avatar of Protection

• If you are smaller than Large, you become Large, along with anything you are wearing. If you lack the room to become Large, your size doesn't change.
• You may make strength checks and saving throws with wisdom
• Your AC becomes 13+WIS
• If an attack misses you or you reduce an attack's Damage for yourself or an ally, deal 2d8+WIS Force damage to the attacker

thats probably unbalanced as shit but its a start

[dapper fulcrum]

the AC becoming 13+Wis is a good balancing factor actually, since more often than not you'd end up with having less AC than you'd have with your regular armor and shield

[stone hollow]

hell yeah

uh so then i wonder what the channel divinity should be then

i guess something that allows you to block or defend allies from attacks?

[stone hollow]

How about
Channel Divinity: Damascene Rebuke
As an action, choose a number of willing creatures within 15 feet of you up to your proficiency bonus. They each gain resistance to the next attack or spell they take damage from until the start of your next turn. Any attacker that deals damage to one of these creatures must make a dexterity saving throw, taking the same amount of damage they dealt on a failure.

Basically the next attack someone takes gets halved and the other half of the same gets taken by the enemy if they fail a save

[dapper fulcrum]

Seems good

[stone hollow]

Sick

[slender nexus]

Might want to slightly rephrase so it's just the next instance of damage (right now e.g. a dragon's breath attack doesn't count), but otherwise seems reasonable

[obsidian jasper]

what do you guys usually do to get a character picture you like?

[worthy plank]

I usually make a heroforge or if I'm strapped for time edit official art

[obsidian jasper]

alr

thx

[cosmic geyser]

Uhhhh... it depended on the character I was playing. Since most of my characters were faceclaims of characters that I liked, I'd just pilfer art of them off of Pinterest (or in the case of when I made a monk based off of 10 Vigilant Gaze Purges the Horizon, I just used art of Vigilant Gaze straight from Kill 6 Billion Demons)

[smoky notch]

i Suffer

although

lately i’ve been working on my drawing skills

so i’ve been drawing myself some of my characters

[obsidian jasper]

I make my charcaters really specific

this is suffering

[smoky notch]

drawing will save u tbh

heroforge Can but it Is a fickle beast

[obsidian jasper]

I tried using ai, it worked somewhat I guess?

[craggy cloak]

Either art is what inspired said character or i use the closest default art since this is mostly a written/verbal game for me

I mostly do text d&d so i dont need the art in most cases

Even more than that older editions and similar ttrpgs have so much art you can use

[obsidian jasper]

now I need to choose my class

[smoky notch]

boooooooooo

👎

[obsidian jasper]

what

I can't find stuff on pinterest

and I have one too many warforge characters

[smoky notch]

booooooooooo👎👎👎

[obsidian jasper]

if someone explains

what I did to deserve this

[smoky notch]

gen ai sucks

[timber sleet]

yeah, ai art steals from artists

[obsidian jasper]

ik but I don't have money to use for someone to draw it for me and I don't really have the time and desire to learn drawing atm

[obsidian jasper]

even the weird bing one?

[smoky notch]

Yes

[obsidian jasper]

I'm sorry

mb

didn't know that

[smoky notch]

it also takes an insane amount of energy to maintain, to The point where it harms The environment

[timber sleet]

some ai art programs have some donated art, but its never enough to fully train them, they always need to steal because they require so much constant data to work that its basically impossible to get enough donations

[timber sleet]

this too, they take a ton of energy

[smoky notch]

also, there Are other alternatives

[obsidian jasper]

if u can tell me that in another channel I'd love to hear it

[smoky notch]

i recommend finding a picrew that looks like the vibe u want

[obsidian jasper]

ah

and what do I do when a character has some very specific traits?

[modest echo]

You're building a warforged, you said?

[obsidian jasper]

no

a human with some elven lineage

[modest echo]

Oh that should be pretty easy

[obsidian jasper]

and grey eyes?

[smoky notch]

easypeasy

[modest echo]

Here, give this one a shot
https://picrew.me/en/image_maker/683306

[smoky notch]

and even if it’s not completely up to snuff, u can always make edits

[obsidian jasper]

thx

what is it?

[modest echo]

It's a character creator. You add traits and get a portrait of your character

[obsidian jasper]

this is great

thank you :D

[tepid crane]

Draw

[obsidian jasper]

you guys know a free source for maps? Asking for my dm

[modest echo]

https://azgaar.github.io/Fantasy-Map-Generator/

world maps

[cosmic geyser]

There's also r/battlemaps and Lost Atlas (you might have to dig a little bit for the free maps on LA)

[obsidian jasper]

battlemaps is what I mwant

mb

[obsidian jasper]

damn why is dnd beyond so money hungry

[dapper fulcrum]

i dont like it and i dont encourage using it

[obsidian jasper]

but roll20 is also weird in some ways

what do you guys use?

[craggy cloak]

Google sheets + Foundry, or google sheets + avrae for pbp in discord, using stuff like tableplop or owlbear for maps

[dapper fulcrum]

you can make your sheets manually in roll20 without paying anything to them

[obsidian jasper]

I tried to make a custom subclass

didn't have the choice of custom

and my dm has a subscription so I can profit

do all sorcerers get all sorcerer spells?

[cosmic geyser]

I use DiceCloud or mooch off of friends that have DNDBeyond

[pure elm]

Yes, that's how class lists work

[dapper fulcrum]

i used to be able to get stuff from my friends but they probs cancelled the subcription already

[modest echo]

I thought Sorcerers had to pick from that list to get a smaller number of learned spells

[dapper fulcrum]

yea sorcs have learned spells

[pure elm]

Oh like that
Yes they are still spells known

[dapper fulcrum]

same with bard

[pure elm]

I thought that was assumed already

[dapper fulcrum]

and iirc warlock?

[pure elm]

Yeah

[cosmic geyser]

And, fun fact, ranger

[pure elm]

Only Cleric, Druid and Paladin prepare from their full list

In 5.14 anyway

[obsidian jasper]

sorry I've never really done things with those classes

do you guys know any widely known homebrew wizard subclasses that excell at damage or are something different from the being good at one school, like bladesinger or chronurgy wizard?

and if I want to be a damage wizard should I get the meta magic adept feat?

[stone hollow]

i wish there was an equivalent to bladesinger wizard that used bows

[cosmic geyser]

Arcane Archer

[craggy cloak]

Id just flavor my spells as arrows

Sounds rad

[cosmic geyser]

Wait… flavor them as crossbow bolts, and then have your wizard walk around with a crossbow that has no crossbow bolts

[arctic yew]

Hmmmm

This feels incredibly threatening,but also like they're missing something

[craggy cloak]

Spells that explode out of a bolt or sing from an arrow's whistling...

[cosmic geyser]

Yeah baby let’s go!

[cosmic geyser]

Is Get Under the Knife supposed to be any of the melee attacks, or is it supposed to be limited to the Meat Cleaver/Chef’s Knife?

[arctic yew]

Any of then

But it doesn't really matter since it won't deal damage,it will just eat death save

S

[cosmic geyser]

True.

[obsidian jasper]

someone got an idea how to balance graviturgy so I can use it?

I meant chronurgy

mb

[dapper fulcrum]

Balance it by making chronurgy spells available to sorcerers

[craggy cloak]

Theres already a chronurgy subclass thats, by all accounts, balanced?

At least for wizards

[obsidian jasper]

I'm the only one considering playing a sorcerer

[cosmic geyser]

This is all whiteboarding on my part, so take it with a grain of salt.

Butcher Prepper is fine for the most part. Them being limited to one action makes them pretty manageable.

The Chopper is a little bit dicier on account of multiattack including the bite (see below). Something to be wary of as well is that the Chopper may be able to initiate a death spiral due to Get Under the Knife

With regards to both monsters, the bite is probably the most concerning bit. Not necessarily on damage, but on how much the butchers can recover in HP. I’d either halve the amount of damage dice (so 4d6 -> 2d6) for the buffed bite or halve the amount healed. I could probably whip up a bespoke trait for the butchers, but I’m getting ready for bed.

[obsidian jasper]

so I can ask my dm if I can use it?

[craggy cloak]

Its not my table

[obsidian jasper]

alr

[dapper fulcrum]

Give it to the sorcerer

My personal bias is to give sorcerers all the spells wizards wont share with em

[obsidian jasper]

so just a sorcerer that gets the wizard spell list

quick question, why did they not just get fused

[modest echo]

They were introduced in 3e as a more flexible mage, the wizard kept the more heavy preparation angle

[obsidian jasper]

ah

[willow wadi]

The sorcerer in 3.5 was basically "wizard but you don't gotta engage with Vancian casting as much"

[modest echo]

it is one of many cases in dnd of "these things are synonyms but we'll give them distinct niches"

[pure elm]

Chronurgy is pretty busted, but much less so if you don't use it in the specific ways it can be abused

[willow wadi]

Since you just knew N spells instead of putting a spell in every spell slot every morning

[pure elm]

the level 10 feature especially can do a lot of shenanigans

[willow wadi]

My actually hot take is that the 5e sorcerer doesn't really have a reason to exist