Dungeons and Dragons

[arctic yew]

not anything life defining

the bar for sapience seems to be 4 int

most spells that affect animals say that an creature with more than 4 int is unnafected

[proud osprey]

i’m thinking of house ruling that if you’re 10 or lower INT, you can’t even read and write your given languages

and at 3 or less you revert to subhumanoid behaviours and intellect

somewhere around 6 you’re at like. genuinely brain damaged in some way, or your character might have a learning disability or something like that

i also think that very low and very high stats are cool for flavour so i wanna nudge players those ways without tanking the value of those stats

so if a player is low int, but very wealthy, i’d imagine that their upbringing will have seen them tutored and somewhat forced to learn how to read and write

unless they were REALLY stupid in which case maybe not

[tepid crane]

I mean an int of 10 is average human intelligence so being able to read and write depends more on the education system provided

But thats a nitpick

[slender nexus]

Lots of creatures with int 4 can understand languages, a couple can speak them

8 is lower end of standard human range, 6 or 7 is probably the point at which it starts to really cause problems in day-to-day life

[mellow rivet]

what bugs me is that the Feeblemind spell sets the target's INT and CHA to 1, which are the stats of a literally brainless creature like a gelatinous cube

like, that's not just a mind that's enfeebled, it's switched off

[arctic yew]

awaken says that for the spell to be able to give sapience to a creature/object,The target must have either no Intelligence score or an Intelligence of 3 or less.

[trail ferry]

That sounds...

Evil

Give a table self awareness just to take it away

[mellow rivet]

it's not like that, the creature that gets awakened doesn't lose its intelligence at the end of the duration.

In fact you could say it gets more self-awareness because it stops having to listen to you. Unless it wants to

[trail ferry]

oh

[mellow rivet]

you can't put it on a table anyway. Awaken only targets plants and animals, so you'd need Animate Objects which doesn't make things smarter

[slender nexus]

If you True Polymorph the table first, though...

(Or the table is a living plant)

[proud osprey]

you ever have players be like yo i wanna be a sentient weapon come to life

so when they inevitably step through an inanimate object and turn into a sword, EVERYONE FREAKS OUT

[craggy cloak]

I have had one character in a campaign of mine whose arc was "I was once a magic weapon and now i power a Warforged / am a Warforged"

[proud osprey]

thought up some ideas about elves

we got!

• wood elves, located in TBD, but it’s big forests that’ve grown over much of the known world
• drow, stinky
• high elves, who are full on laputans

[modest echo]

They've got that floating city thing going on?

[proud osprey]

they do, in fact, have that dog in them yes

[modest echo]

yoooo

[proud osprey]

tru!

but yeah, big floating via magic city, bit steampunk, they have firearms. very fancy. big on art. they have a sort of underclass of servants and labourers, though, and can thus go fuck thesmelevs

they are also led by a wizard king, who is possibly thousands of years old, has a third eye, has arcane gems embedded in each of his vertibrae, and spends much of his time shirtless on his throne

they are also up to weird science shit, with many chimaera animals in their culture unseen elsewhere

and they have sky ships and automatons

today i’m gonna start the map

plan is: make a big 4k map on inkarnate

export

take to a print shop

get it printed on size BIG

take it to d&d sometimes, otherwise keep it on my wall

possibly laminated

i wanna invest in this d&d world seeing as i figure i’m stuck using d&d to some extent of another

so! chat, precious chat, greatest server with some of the nicest internet buddies with whom i’ve ever fraternised

i call on thee to help me fill out this world. whomst down?

[proud osprey]

group B:

• Wood Elf Druid
• Wood Elf Monk
• Dwarf Barbarian
• ??? Bard (?)

[barren quarry]

hiya. im a solo ttrpg content developer/maker/person. iv got a bit of prototype content for my D&D 5e setting and rules book i figured id share in the hopes of getting some feedback. the book's setting is a high fantasy - scifi inspired world, and the book is heavily inspired by fighting games, anime, n other stuff.

its a playable species/race

its a bit long, ill be word smithing it down

but i figured id share first streamline later. no point polishing something if you dont know if itll work

[proud osprey]

steel type from pokémon runs deep

[barren quarry]

hm?

[barren quarry]

btw this gives me some weird mix of dark souls boss meets steampunk and i think thatd make for a great stat block

[proud osprey]

punk steams

i’d play that

but yeah, King Lysandroth Artudius

the One Great King of Exilith

Scion of the Glorian Empire

[modest echo]

I like how you remove some standard survival requirements for the playable robot fantasy, but replace it with other requirements to keep them from being casually immortal or impossible to give survival challenges to

[barren quarry]

that was my major issue with warforged

i enjoy the idea of robotic lifeforms, but everything has a cost to continue its survival

[proud osprey]

plausible an end boss of at least my girlfriend’s character’s central plotline revolving around her family and her homeland

[proud osprey]

structure for campaign B seems lined up to be:

• a group of travellers meet in a tavern, get into trouble with some rowdy soldiers, and meet a powerful and wise priestess.
• they travel, possibly with her, to the city over to participate in the tourney of saint jon’s eve
• city nonsense to follow

wondering: how shall i make the festival and tournament engaging and relevant

we’re in the lower fantasy end of this part of the world

so nothing nuts to fight

i’m thinking there are a few different events:

• arena championship
• the melee
• the joust
• the archery competition
• arcane duelling

may ditch two of these, especially arcane duelling tho

joust, melee, archery competition

arena championship i will save for another circumstances

arcane duelling also

[tepid crane]

Do some research and watch A Knights tale (I always put a tournament in my games after I watched it)

[proud osprey]

nice

[brazen yacht]

Question inspired by the recent Dead By Daylight thing;

Other than Mind Flayers and Gith, what humanoid monsters does D&D have that originated solely from D&D? Not things they took from elsewhere that the D&D interpretation of has become the most common one

[modest echo]

hmmmmmm

i want to say "drow" but that's a stretch for a couple reasons

[pure elm]

well it gets really murky with a lot of stuff

because the idea of "dark elves" is obviously pretty old

[modest echo]

Bullywugs

Are "evil frog people" sufficiently original

[brazen yacht]

Eeeehh

[modest echo]

Dragonlance had evil dragon people

who have kinda been absorbed by dragonborn now but they started as Evil Dragon People not just guys who are dragons

[tepid crane]

Doesn’t really fit the criteria but kobolds going from these dog/goblin creatures to lizards is a pretty big shift

[modest echo]

d&d invented the dog thing too

[tepid crane]

Really?

The more you know I guess

[solemn totem]

Yeah german kobolds are just goblins but in mines

[proud osprey]

hence the name

cognate with cobalt

[solemn totem]

Also
https://fxtwitter.com/CHofferCBus/status/1790403605003940034?t=GjtxaU6z3f3GlRCQMTv9yQ&s=19

[modest echo]

dorf

[arctic yew]

how draining do you make flikght
like

do you just
let flying creatures stay airborn forever if they arent asleep

[tepid crane]

An hour or so of flying if they are used to it before they have to rest

Really depends on the creature

A pegasus can fly for as far as a horse could gallop before it needs to rest

[arctic yew]

i am dealing with a player that can fly playing keepaway with a robot

unfortunately,its a robot,so it wont get tired

the flier will

[tepid crane]

That sounds like one of the pros of being a robot

And one of the cons of being a meat person

[arctic yew]

indeed

[brazen yacht]

I'd say it depends on how they're flying

How can they fly?

[proud osprey]

is 5.5e gonna be a big change?

[lament geode]

Is that a real thing?

[proud osprey]

dnd one or whatever

seems very much like 5.5 to me

i consider 5e to be everything up to whenever they changed how races work

soecies

lineage

and everything after is stuff they’re putting into this new edition, where seemingly very little is gonna change, which i’m calling 5.5

[craggy cloak]

There are some changes that matter and add a lot of nuance/streamlining, but for the average person who doesnt play RAW i dont think any of it matters.

[proud osprey]

nice

opted to pivot from more medieval to more heroic fantasy anime tournament vibes as that’s the energy i was getting off my players when asked

so, coming up with some fun monsters for them to fight, brought in from across the breadth of the empire and beyond

Horned Slugs
Giant Wolves
never used a bulette before…
Giant Land Octopus

what else? needs to be on the more mundane end of fantasy creature design but not totally boring. exciting enough for commoners to see in an arena and be amazed that there are strong people out there willing and abl to fight the mm

[proud osprey]

map so far

[prisma sluice]

Do y'all know of any good gunslinger homebrews for 5e

[proud osprey]

no good homebrew but your own homebrew

make it happen

[prisma sluice]

I really don't want to homebrew an entire class + subclasses at the moment, though

[proud osprey]

okay fair

who’s playing gunslinger

[prisma sluice]

Me, myself, and I

Tried making a sword and pistol build out of an artificer, it's not bad but I went for Forge Master and it looks

Kinda boring

Cause Forge Master's one subclass feature until level 5 is "free +1 weapon"

Which is objectively great but there's nothing else

[pure elm]

I certainly know a lot of them
can't necessarily vouch for good as much though haha

[prisma sluice]

Lmao

[pure elm]

I think heavyarms' one was my favorite from the ones I recall?
But that's also a while ago, there might be some other decent ones

it leans more into being a crit fishing class, and also doesn't have dumb shit like misfire

[prisma sluice]

God I hate Misfire

[proud osprey]

i like misfire as an item feature

[pure elm]

https://www.heavyarms.com/products/gunslinger?variant=40542343102628

[proud osprey]

it is however bad design for 5e to include it for class features

[pure elm]

does cost 10 bucks unfortunately, but I will vouch for this one being pretty good at least

heavyarms generally did pretty good stuff

[prisma sluice]

I would, but it's not very fun to risk your weapon just becoming completely useless due to shit luck syndrome

[pure elm]

this does have an overview of the main class features in the preview at least, so gives something of an idea probably

[proud osprey]

agree

but my setting isn’t one where a dedicated gunslinger class would be very useful, i don’t think

[arctic yew]

fairy

[pure elm]

in general the main mechanic of this class is as follows
they get an increasing amount of extra dice on crits
and every time you hit with an attack that is not a crit, your crit threshold goes down by 1, down to 16 or higher at most

[brazen yacht]

Oh, hm.

[pure elm]

then it resets if you miss or get knocked out

also has its own table of firearm equipment balanced for the class
and some supporting featss

oh and it also has an appendix showing the numbers are balanced actually haha

[proud osprey]

thinking that the tournament will work in brackets. so i’ll come up with a few parties of fighters

each group fights some kind of flavourful and appropriate monsters

eventually the last two groups go head to head against a REAL powerful monster

payout to the last group standing

[prisma sluice]

Does seem interesting, thanks Alaen

[proud osprey]

thoughts on the teams?

[craggy cloak]

good, solid names

[proud osprey]

nice

so now i need sixteen critters for them to fight

[proud osprey]

got my girlfriend set up with her character for the new game

some high elf tosser who hates gnomes and is privately educated

[arctic yew]

also late but

This looks so ai generated

[solemn totem]

How?

[proud osprey]

nah he’s right

[arctic yew]

The proportions

The comically large neck

The arm

[proud osprey]

the dragon throws me off so much

impossible to fucking follow

the design on it is such shoddy work tbat if it’s not AI, it’s just a mess

and if it is AI, then someone should prolly lose their job and it won’t be the person or people who’ll actually warrant the sack that get it

[barren quarry]

question for the D&D peeps on here. are there any noteworthy things that you like or dislike about potions in 5e? healing or otherwise

[proud osprey]

i make using a potion a bonus action

[barren quarry]

im doing some brainstorming work for a bit of content and figured id get community opinions on issues with potions

[proud osprey]

idk if that became core

[tepid crane]

They don’t feel very potion-ey

[proud osprey]

but i also have elaborate potion systems that allow players to craft them

[barren quarry]

could you explain what you mean by that?

[tepid crane]

They feel more like just standard magic items

[barren quarry]

ahhh

hmm. any reason why?

difficulty to acquire?

[proud osprey]

my gf just asked me what would happen if you used a dragon’s teeth in a potion

[tepid crane]

I guess I would like more emphasis on them as potions, how to craft them, how long their shelf life is.

[arctic yew]

Mostly the price and yo-yoing but that's a problem with 5e in general

[proud osprey]

and i thought that was cool. bc like yeah why not tbink in those sorts of crafting terms

this shit

[barren quarry]

[proud osprey]

in my upcoming game i am throwing out the RAW economy and winging it

[barren quarry]

well thats what im here to fix so ill get to work on that

[tepid crane]

🤤

[proud osprey]

with a silver as a tenner

[tepid crane]

I love fantasy economics

[proud osprey]

and most people working from that kinda day to day basis

[solemn totem]

Thats just what Gold dragons look like now, they're more inspired by chinese dragons, meaning small limbs and winding bodies. Here it is on the alt cover.

[proud osprey]

bc like medieval lookin ass peasants who’ve never seen a

fuckin

otyugh before

they don’t see gold very often

so why would they produce a short sword and then sell it for 10 gold

[tepid crane]

Could I link you a reddit post I think you should read

[proud osprey]

yes please

[proud osprey]

the art is still sloppy

the lines of sight of the party are also muddled

and confusing

idk ONEd&d cover art should just be more different than this. rn it doesn’t feel like even a good aesthetic step in any direction

[tepid crane]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DnDBehindTheScreen/s/Exbh6mOsPQ

[proud osprey]

just treading water with 5e’s extremely milquetoast visual brand

cheers bud

[barren quarry]

since you brought this up specifically i figured id ask you a question. the current system im making creates a few "easy use" potions for general gameplay. the idea being that the normal potions are hell to balance, and a GM can get nightmares from being too lax with crafting rules and such. No GM wants to allow crafting just to have to ask someone to chill their roll on the giant strength potions theyre making.

These easy use potions would include a healing potion, as well as potions that grant straight forward and short term buffs. They'd last about an hour tops for the proper buff ones. crafting any one of those potions would only take an hour or so, and they have a shelf life of 2 days. The ingredient requirements are laid out and simple to get if you spend the time. however, to go along with this, a different system iv developed that lets you make hideouts with place-able furniture that can provides buffs, gets a potion minifridge that makes them last a week or more. numbers up for balancing of course

i figured id pitch the concept before writing the full deal. id like to make something that solves the issue of "these dont feel like theyre worth making" and also addressing the GM issue of "i cant just give these out like candy"

does a concept like that sound appealing? given the issues you have with default potions

also would love to hear opinions from anyone else of course

[arctic yew]

if i remember,the crafting rules in dnd are intentionally bad expressly so you dont try crafting and go out adventure for stuff instead

[barren quarry]

i figure the fix is to include the resources for the potions along the road. im making this for my book, which will include over 80 maps. if youve ever played games like deep rock galactic, where the resources are always out of the way but only just barely so, itd be sorta like that

with the best resources maybe hidden somewhere just nearby like a little easter egg

gather as you adventure sorta deal

[tepid crane]

Absoloutely I would be excited to maybe have to strategize when I brew my potions or what the window of opportunity would be to go into a dungeon at full effect

[modest echo]

was that for this thread?

[true olive]

Nope

Not even for this server

[tepid crane]

?

[barren quarry]

Ill keep that in mind as a focus

[trail ferry]

fox friend?

[barren quarry]

fox friend!

oh you have in your bio lol

[trail ferry]

Yes

[barren quarry]

[craggy cloak]

Hard to get players to actually use them

[barren quarry]

i figured that wouldve been a common complaint. loot hoarding right? like skyrim n other games where they end the game on a pile of stuff

my current solution is to set an expiration date and include ways to extend it. use it or lose it type deal

[brazen yacht]

Honestly the reason I don't use them is because I genuinely forget I have them they're so rare

There have been so many times I've looked over my character sheet, seen a potion and gone "Damn I wish I remembered I had that"

[muted yacht]

yeah they aren't really part of my 'game loop' frequently

[barren quarry]

gotcha, ill make sure my potion system for my book is common enough to become a tool in people's minds then

works fine enough since the system is meant to let you craft potions with simple effects. the potions with all the weird effects are hard as hell to balance

[muted yacht]

there's the consumable problem kinda where like, using them will make a fight easier but you don't know when to actually use them
like you need to know whether a fight will be hard enough to merit them

which is related to hoarding I guess

consumables that are like a big instantaneous effect, or better used as a 'comeback' tool might be less affected by that compared to buffs that you need to set ahead of time

idk

[barren quarry]

i think the issue often comes down to having to commit action economy

[craggy cloak]

Yeah, i tend to play pretty close to RAW so i don't hand out too much overly magical loot

[barren quarry]

ill look into including feats and other ways to let people take potions in a pinch n stuff

itll likely take some playtesting since its all about alleviating issues players have with like, gear fear and hoarding n stuff

[tepid crane]

I dunno how I feel about someone being able to slam back a standard sized healing potion in 6 seconds. On another note “potion shots” could be a interesting commodity.

[barren quarry]

that was the idea for my little mini buff potions

something simple n compact, easy to carry n use, simple ingredients you can find on the journey through my book's adventure setting and maps, short shelf life

[proud osprey]

fell asleep reading this wow

[arctic yew]

The court mage calls you for an audience with the king

When you get there, instead of coming out to greet you,the court mage is in front of the front gate,sleeping on his staff

Wyd

[tepid crane]

What did you think?

[proud osprey]

fuck would i know i fell asleep reading it

but i’ve seen the post before and then i enjoyed it also

[proud osprey]

d&d session 0 tomorrow, character rules gonna be

• 4d6 drop the lowest, except your final roll, where you reroll any sixes and take the lowest three instead
• everybody gets a feat to start with
• we cook up custom backgrounds with much more juice than just noble or whatever, inspired by my own game journeyman, itself having taken inspiration from pentiment

[proud osprey]

session 0 going well

about 60% through

halfling fighter
half-drow paladin
half-orc monk
high elf cleric

quite a crew

[tepid crane]

Never seen a half drow before

[arctic yew]

Mace of devouring

Weapon (maul)

A two-handed sphere mace. The head of the mace has a living mouth,and it is hungry.

When you hit a creature made of organic matter,the mace deals an extra 1d4 piercing damage as it savagely bites the target. Additionally,you can hold it against wood,dirt or other organic matter,and it will devour it,on a rate of 1 cubic feet per minute.

Curse:

This maul is cursed, and becoming attuned to it extends the curse to you. As long as you remain cursed, you are unwilling to part with the maul,and you require twice as much food as normal. Additionally,you are always at the very least peckish.

When you crit with this weapon,make a DC 17 wisdom save. On a success, for this turn, you can use your bonus action to make a bite attack against a target, dealing 1d6+str piercing damage. On a failure,you must immediately make that bite attack against the closest target. If there are multiple targets within the same range,the target is chosen at random.

[tepid crane]

This would be an awesome tool

Like if I had this as an adventurer I would retire and start my own lumber business or some other way I could use it to make money

[arctic yew]

is being hungy forever worth it tho

[tepid crane]

I mean a little peckish isn’t so bad

If I can chop down 5 ft wide trees in a minute I think I can make enough money to eat twice as much as I would normally

[proud osprey]

i think someone’s played one in a game of mine befofe

she murdered her dad on the way out of her subterranean home, and must now live among the abovelands

i’m unable to sleep so naturally i’m thinking about the state of politics in the setting

i’ve gone into this basing the cadric empire loosely on the HRE, and i wanted from the start for there to be some sort of peasant uprisings brewing across that empire

additionally, i want there to be beef between the provinces in the east of the empire: vegara and ordulo being very ornery with the kazmi reaches, and gloratticans being disillusioned with the concept of empire

when asked yesterday if there’s a lot of war and chaos or if the setting’s about to kick off i said the latter

and so naturally i want to follow through on that as a reality

so, any suggestions or input as to how to do so?

there was a crusade recently, i know that much. additionally, there are occasional incursions of orcs and goblins and such.

i also know that there is some heavenly beef in the court of the gods and as such the god of chaos is trying to make the universe throw a tantrum to fuck with the other gods

[tepid crane]

funny enough, there would probably be less brigands or bandits since the majority of them during medieval times were the result of mercenary companies not getting work.

also there may be less exotic goods as trade routes shut down

[tepid crane]

looking at real history for a moment, the crusades allowed a lot of concepts and ideas to be taken from the Muslim golden age to be adopted in the rest of europe

[tepid crane]

and the final point I would make for conflict in your setting, how are the mortal followers reacting to the drama in your setting's pantheon? Could this be a good source of adventures as a schism forms in the belief systems of many.

[proud osprey]

mmm these are juicy

i’ll have a think

[tepid crane]

Also not related to setting conflict but there could totally be some dead crusader who’s body is being paraded around towns that adventurers could meet on the road

Could have a fun quest of “Oh no, Sir Atticus’s femur is missing we need to find it before we are due at the ceremony!” And the players have to retrace the steps of the parade to find where it was lost.

[proud osprey]

fucked

i like sir atticus tho

[proud osprey]

thinking there needs to be some sort of inciting incident for the meta-plot

like “oh the king is dead” tier shit

maybe a province of the empire announces its secession? maybe a peasant revolt springs out of control across several towns?

actually that’s it

there’s been rumblings across the empire, but out west, between the corrupt magisters of the espony academy and the lords and barons and dukes across smešia, kreykrauchen, deregost and fordyn, peasants are starting to squirm under authority

so i’m thinking the party deal with these orcs, themselves roaming bandits after an unsuccessful battle with the dwarves in the mountains, and they become heroes or otherwise notables in the town. then, at some point, during the festival of [i forgot which saint but it’s in my notes; i’m on mobile], the nobleman visiting town is found, dead. the players are set to accuse a subject to appease both the angry mob and the angrier nobility, several members of which now on their way to convene justice.

whatever the outcome, i’m thinking that it all kicks off in the town of badgers

[timber sleet]

any advice on how to word this better? feels a lil awkward

[modest echo]

hmmmm
"You cannot use your standard move on the same turn as this ability. Move up to X feet in a straight line" and then the distance-moved effects can refer to something more self-contained

[timber sleet]

the problem is this monster also has an ability that forces it to basically repeat its voluntary movement from last turn (i.e., it moves 10 feet in a direction the last turn, this turn it automatically moves 10 feet in that direction again), which wouldnt work with that

the idea is you put it in a big hallway and it slides down really fast to deal a lot of damage

it also automatically slides down slopes which i want to work with the ram ability to

[modest echo]

hmmmm

yeah not sure how to compress that

[proud osprey]

thinking of making monsters a little more fun to use

bc like what the fucking shit is a 5e stat block

[timber sleet]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/4505216-ice-cube monster has been finished

[proud osprey]

party:

• half-drow paladin, formerly a member of a subterranean society of outcast dark elf led by a cruel and capricious man out of the ruins and sewers of a city in the mountain; slew her father, that cruel man, and is now hated by her half-brother, the favourite, who has succeeded his father’s legacy
• halfling fighter, formerly a standard happy halfling living in a shire like environment of sorts who was brought to a baron’s court in a jester role, eventually proving himself worthy of fighting on the field of battle and serving as a page
• half-orc monk, an acolyte of a monastery, given practically at birth by his human mother to the monastery of st minch, now old enough to understand that he wishes to see the world and find himself before his fate is sealed to his religion
• high elf cleric, a noblewoman from a floating technologically and magically advanced city that travels the globe, she has fled from home at the nudging of her god but also in line with her own chafing against the social expectations of her society.

this is gonna be gooood

[tepid crane]

Neat party

[proud osprey]

that’s party A

party B is

• Mountain Dwarf Barbarian
• Mountain Dwarf Wizard
• Wood Elf Druid
• Wood Elf Monk
• Green Dragonborn Bard

[tepid crane]

Interesting

Lot of classic dwarves and elves

[trail ferry]

wish i could be a mountain dawrf

sadly i'm a just a hill dork

i live on a hill!

[tepid crane]

Hill dwarfs are dope! Like mountain dwarves but they get to have plants

[proud osprey]

i’m sure the mt dwarves have plants somewhere back there

gonna consolidate this chicken scratch page of notes i made on saturday evening while piss ass drunk into three separate character sheets, wish luck

page in question

[proud osprey]

trying to come up with a better character sheet lol

5e’s default sheets suck

[proud osprey]

terrible signal to noise ratio

[lament geode]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhWp9dR6vBs

[proud osprey]

https://youtube.com/shorts/yI987iYd7Fk?si=gHrkMjP1edhDR1qF

i have like two mates that have seen the sopranos

pls watch this if you’ve seen the sopranos

[proud osprey]

gonna do some more work today i tbink seeing as i’m still off sick from work

[next canopy]

me not playing dnd result in me comming up with way too much character

like my slime knight

[proud osprey]

slimb

[next canopy]

basacly he was the nice monster mascott of an advebturer group but they goit tpk and now he want to realize their dream ( become a great hero, build a tavern, eat the best food)

but he hides he's an ooze (or plasmoid) but he's kinda bad at it. His humanoid form is a bit too tall, a bit too thin and his arm are too long

( yuou know the Artorias build)

for sub classe i thouht either champion( no fancy shit just bonk and crit at 18) or echo knight ( with slim clone flavor)

[proud osprey]

slime clone flavour always good flavour

[next canopy]

whne the fighter got so much attacik per round he manifest another whole fighter

[arctic yew]

one of my players has,and i quote

"have my soul sandwiched between the best possible version of myself across the multiverse and the final form of jack the ripper"

[arctic yew]

What is a good way in DND to show "oh,this person is STUPID strong"

This is medieval times so I cant have Maria throwing a tractor at the party

[barren quarry]

This is a pretty nuanced question, but given the tractor thing im assuming youre meaning physical strength?

[arctic yew]

Yes

[barren quarry]

The major narrative way to foreshadow strength is reputation and gossip/stories. Having other characters that remember how strong they are, having them be frequently talked about as a known figure, etc

That's a more lowkey way to do it

If youre trying to blatantly show physical strength upfront, you can just be direct. Depending on the character, have a party member notice them doing some feat of strength. A kind overly buff shepherd helping an animal stuck in the mud. A bulky fighter winning multiple arm wrestling matches in the tavern

Things like that

[arctic yew]

this villain has been described by most people that i talked about as "a weird amalgamation of toji and kromer,"

also usually followed by "what is wrong with you"

[arctic yew]

thank uuuu

[barren quarry]

The major thing to consider is the character's personality

If this villain doesnt show off, you should keep the displays "on the low down". If theyre boisterous and like to show off, make it something obscene like walking through town with a barrel on each shoulder

The level of "i want to show off" determines how "in your face" itll be

Keep in mind that if theyre intelligent and proactive, they also may choose to not show off intentionally

Since hidden information is a weapon

[tepid crane]

I love all the background research he always does

Mystara is probably my favourite dnd setting

[tepid crane]

LMAO

Shouldn’t of showed up at 3 o’clock

[tepid crane]

Working a windmill by pushing the outside turbine

[barren quarry]

pfffft

at that point just stick a bar on the grind stone and have em go around in circles

like the old school ones

[tepid crane]

“Not enough wind today, oh well”

[proud osprey]

good right

[barren quarry]

i aaaaaam, conflicted. do i work on the subclasses for my book, the rest of the playable species, or do i work on the multiple ending campaign system

(yes im asking yall cause im indecisive)

[tepid crane]

Multiple ending campaign system?

[barren quarry]

for my book! its a single setting with multiple playable storylines. you can replay the entire book 5 times

with different bosses and endings

and the city (which the setting is in) changes to reflect your actions

[tepid crane]

Oh thats rad

[barren quarry]

i really love multiple ending games, like how elden ring has multiple endings, or, ya know, any of the other 10 million games that have that lol

i never saw it done in dnd and i was like "k well im doing that. that needs to be done"

and i want people to really feel like their purchase was worth it

it also lets people play the game in different ways, so you get to be flexible with the characters you play. you dont have to make a character that wants to fight corporate greed and oppression, you can make an environmentalist and go for the Reclamation route with your friends as a bunch of druids or whatever

or be crime lords and go for the Take Over route

so many adventure modules struggle with the issue of "in order to make your character fit the setting, they need to have the same general motivations"

so i wanted to solve that

that and like, i mean, then people can use the book 4 extra times

which, value babyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[tepid crane]

Sounds like you are making a really good book

[barren quarry]

trying my damn best

i recently got my map software and have started practicing

its gonna be a bit before anything im making is up to my standards tho

[tepid crane]

I was a bit confused by the multiple endings part but it sounds cool

[barren quarry]

its not cost effective at all, but like, once the actual writing is done enough n i get this thing on kickstarter, if enough funding comes in maybe ill get some of the maps commissioned. id like for the players to really get something nice

[barren quarry]

if youve played dishonored, think of the chaos system

idk if youve played that, just hoping cause thats the best fitting example

[tepid crane]

I understand that but I thought there is never a set ending

[barren quarry]

teeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeechnically there isnt? i mean, its a setting book after all. but the theme/vibe changes

im trying to take an open world approach with the quest lines all put out n about, n doing them contributes to point totals the GM can track on a lil sheet of paper. and at certain amounts of points the city undergoes changes to reflect your actions

maybe thats the best way to put it lol. itll probably stay confusing to people until i hammer out the system and can show it

maybe ill do that right now

[arctic yew]

That player, currently having an audience with the king, fully aware they could get their body taken over by the mass murderer inhabiting their soul at any moment:

[modest echo]

oh NO

[tepid crane]

Wait so at any point the player character’s body could be taken over by a serial killer?

[arctic yew]

More or less

[tepid crane]

How is that handled I dunno if I would let someone commit those crimes in any of my games

Thankfully nothing like that has ever came up

[arctic yew]

Sometimes,when tsumukari thinks that it would be fun to go wreak havoc,she has to make a wisdom save to stop her from taking over her body

[tepid crane]

I don’t follow sorry I thought you meant the historical figure of Jack the Ripper

[arctic yew]

Oh no

I just used that to exemplify "boy,this dead woman possessing my player sure does love cutting people"

[tepid crane]

Is that a popular interpretation?

[arctic yew]

Whu

[barren quarry]

imma toss this in here for the wolves.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gQPJLjYHBIr9nAYrqdxG-Jx1J1pkr8zu6LUklELGBr8/edit?usp=sharing

criticism wanted

this is a gritty hunter style class inspired by supernatural monster hunters, the supernatural series, stuff like that

its a Gish (battle caster / spell blade for people who dont know that term), that trades in spell slot quality for access to smites without being a divine class

currently the two iffy parts of the class are two of the subclasses. Vow to The Divine and Vow to The Hunger

they're needing a rework but im a little stumped, figured if i got someone else to tear into it i could get some ideas

[tepid crane]

Looks pretty cool

They get a lot of weapons though

[barren quarry]

hm? you mean like weapon proficiencies?

[tepid crane]

That and the three martial weapons

Well 2 martial weapons and heavy crossbow

[barren quarry]

i yoinked that from paladin lol

but youre right, maybe i should tweak it

probably switch the h crossbow to a light

i dont really wanna reduce options that much though. maybe ill cut the general martial proficiency n just have a few specific ones

though i hate when there are massive proficiency lists lol. lots of bookwork

or, what if i made it "3 martial weapons of your choice" for the martial proficiencies

that might actually be a nifty fix

[tepid crane]

Yeah that would be good, especially if they are a good monster hunter who knows the different weaknesses and strengths of monsters

[barren quarry]

i tweaked it to that yeah. now its simple weapons and any 3 martial weapons

thanks for the feedback, i appreciate it

tbh i doubt anyone will ever use this class besides, idk, maybe my players for my own games. but its fun to make stuff so whatever lol

[arctic yew]

that many weapons may actually encumber then on character creation

i think

[barren quarry]

for choosing proficiencies?

[tepid crane]

From choosing the gear

[barren quarry]

thats from paladin

so if its good enough for WoTC its good enough for me lol

well, i did change the heavy crossbow option to light crossbow and fixed the focus type

but besides that its just the paladin's starting gear

[tepid crane]

Are you expecting them to be a tank like how a paladin is because people generally prioritize strength for paladins

[barren quarry]

theyre an off martial, you could treat them like a ranger or a rogue in a lot of ways

their primary stats are dex and int, but strength works as a pivot because of the access to smite spells regardless of their intelligence modifier

theyre not inherently tanky, but theres some subclass abilities that do add some tankiness

the closest they get to actually being tanky in the main class is that the spell list does contain the Shield spell

[tepid crane]

I mean in relation to carry weight and encumbrances

If I’m comparing them to a ranger or rogue I wouldn’t be thinking about how to carry all that gear when statting the character

[barren quarry]

theres no heavy armor on the list, so the carry weight is entirely negligible. even assuming a strength of 8, your carry cap is 120

even if you grabbed 3 pikes, which are the heaviest weapon, youre not running over even after the leather armor and other stuff

so theres nothing that could cause you to struggle with carry weight unless, idk, you had a strength of 6?

[tepid crane]

Thats fair

[barren quarry]

but thats assuming the worst case scenario of wanting 3 pikes for god knows what reason. most loadouts will be on average, 30 lb or so

after everything

[tepid crane]

I mean what about the other stuff like the pack they come with or general adventuring gear

Either way probably a non-issue

Seems like a fun class after reading the abilities

I would play it at my table

[barren quarry]

yeah its pretty much nothing. the only things that weigh much in D&D are heavy suits of armor. since the class gets leather, its pretty much just ignorable

iirc, i think the packs are like, 20 lb or something?

let me google

oh someone did the math

59 (jeeze thats a lot more than i thought)

for the explorers pack

so youd be looking at like, 90 lb of stuff if you include everything and the heaviest pack (scholars is way less)

[mild cloak]

Okay, question about play at everyone's tables. You're the DM, and one of your players wants to break down a door with a weapon or a damaging cantrip. Do you track the door's AC and HP, making the player roll every attack? Or do you treat it as some kind of ability check, like Strength (Athletics) or even Strength (martial weapons)?

[lament geode]

If it's in combat I worry about its durability but don't care much for rolling to hit

If it's outside of combat it's just a check

[barren quarry]

depends on the object. if its something tough like metal ill give it hp (iv got rules for material hp as a shorthand thing). but if its something you could reasonably bust through, i make it either an Athletics or Arcana check

based on physical or spell being used

[mild cloak]

let's assume outside of combat, but presumably time is some kind of factor, or they wouldn't need to roll

[lament geode]

Then yeah, it's just a strength check. If the cantrip's appropriate, that hit roll would suffice

imo

[tepid crane]

I’d track it’s health if it’s being attacked or destroyed but if they are just trying to kick it open that’s a skill check

[mild cloak]

I'd be inclined to treat it as a check either way, personally. In my view, they'd only be rolling at all if there is some kind of fail-state, like it takes too long or they are caught. And since that's pretty much always going to be a binary pass/fail thing, it should usually take just one roll, I think.

[barren quarry]

yeah if theres no external pressure i just give it a Time To Complete

cause wacking it enough is gonna do the job at some point unless its some absurd material or situation

[mild cloak]

I just don't see the value in breaking it down to the level of "how many hits, exactly, does it take to break down this door"

which is the only thing HP would add

[barren quarry]

i do find value in using shorthand hp rules for aoe spells. things like using shatter on the second story of a building

its literally meant to do object damage

[mild cloak]

mmm

[barren quarry]

so tracking stuff like that in a simple way is usually more satisfying for the players i find

[mild cloak]

I could see that

like, tracking unintended consequences

[barren quarry]

yeah

but yeah, if its combat its just a check or im tracking shorthand hp/consequences. if its out of combat, i just say "yeah itll take you X amount of time"

[mild cloak]

though quite honestly, even in that case, I think I'd be more inclined to run it like, "You want to cast shatter to break this window for your daring escape. You will break the window in dramatic fashion, but make a check to see if your destructive magic has any... negative consequences."

[tepid crane]

I mean it depends on the door, a big sturdy door would definitely take a few axe swings

[mild cloak]

And then on failure they might accidentally ruin the floor and fall through to a lower level

[mild cloak]

Okay, but how long does an ability check take?

[tepid crane]

There isn’t a defined time for an ability check

[mild cloak]

exactly

so in a narrative sense, it's either "fast enough" or "too slow"

[tepid crane]

But assuming this is in the heat of the moment where every second counts the individual chops would matter to me

[mild cloak]

well sure, I'd track object statistics in combat, where that level of time granularity is already built in

[timber sleet]

very situation-dependent imo, based off of material hardness, time constraints, whether its in combat
soft/medium, outside of combat, theres no time contraints: they can just break it down
soft/medium, outside of combat, but there are time constraints: checks
soft/medium, in combat: keep track of ac and hp
hard/thick material: cant be broken down with normal weapons, needs magical weapons, some kind of acid, force damage, or something similar, often depends on the exact material

i like the whole "making harder matereals impervious to normal damage" thing because it allows some control over where the players go in dungeons but doesnt feel unfun or railroady for the players because it makes sense, just dont overuse it

[tepid crane]

Adamantine locks are why I bring heat metal

[arctic yew]

Would that do anything?

[arctic yew]

Bob is the last worker from the abandoned mansion that my players got

He fell into the under dark by a giant fucking hole in the basement

But he was in the middle of his shift,so he forgot to die

Employee of the month,every month,for 300 years

[barren quarry]

bro you made undead tom nook from animal crossing thats amazing

[arctic yew]

Never played it, taking It as a compliment

[barren quarry]

it is lol

tom is the raccoon that builds houses in 3 seconds flat

the "10 hours of work in 10 minutes" reminds me of that

the payment part included

bro demands his money

[topaz lagoon]

Close enough to D&D to potentially count; I’m gonna maybe put together a Mausritter thing soon, what sorts of faction would be good for populating the area? I’ve already got the basics like bandits, smugglers, cultists, and then also things like cats, owls, etc

[craggy cloak]

with the caveat i havent touched mausritter, I always enjoy neutral factions like a research expedition or religious missionaries, groups that Do Stuff around or without the players over time

[tepid crane]

Wizard with a tower on the back of a turtle

[topaz lagoon]

Nest of spiders, centipedes, etc. might also work. They’re not intelligent like mice in the setting but they still have goals of a kind

[tepid crane]

Would make a fun dungeon though

[topaz lagoon]

one other interesting bit about the idea of like, pilgrims in a Mausritter game is that then I have to define a little bit of what they worship

like the "orthodox" religion of vaguely german mice

[stone hollow]

i think there are few things that turn me off more from a dnd campaign is the DM immeditately starting to talk about gods and then saying "we start at level 1"

[timber sleet]

starting at level 1 in general is a turnoff for me

this is my tier list of starting levels:
S: 4, 10-12
A: 5-9
B: 13-16
C: 2-3, 17-19
D: 1, 20

[stone hollow]

god i would love to play in a game that starts at 10

i need that so bad

I have literally never cast a 5th level spell

[timber sleet]

1 is just boring and 20 is too repetitive to do anything long with and too complicated to make a character to do anything short with

[tepid crane]

I wouldn’t call 1 boring it’s just a different pace

[stone hollow]

i dont think personally i have ever had a good experience with it

[timber sleet]

players have next to nothing, even most of the caster classes dont have spells. its not even fun for the dm because you have to be so insanely picky about your encounter balance and chosen enemies.

honestly one of my favorite things to do as dm is to come up with interesting enemy combinations and uses but at level 1 you're limited to every encounter being like

2 goblins

or a bear

even something like an ogre can oneshot party members and is way too much, people just dont have enough health

[tepid crane]

Might be a preference thing then because I don’t mind unbalanced encounters or having little in the ways of abilities

[timber sleet]

its not that the encounters are unbalanced, its that they're either boring or tpk with no inbetween

[tepid crane]

That sounds like my definition of unbalanced

Skews in one direction or another

[craggy cloak]

I like starting at Level 1 but I used fixed CR calcs so its not an instant TPK

im also only a GM and never a player so i may be biased

[stone hollow]

RANDOM INTERNET GM, START A LEVEL 10 HIGH FANTASY CAMPAIGN OVER FOUNDRY VTT AND MY LIFE IS YOURS

[craggy cloak]

I hope you find one!!

They have to exist somewhere, even if I'll never run a game above level 11

[stone hollow]

lmfao fair

[topaz lagoon]

you're gonna be a lowly local hero/hero of the realm and like it /hj

[tepid crane]

There is no in between 😔

[timber sleet]

one cool thing ive started doing to make identify actually useful: dont tell players what magic items do. if its something they have to manually activate, tell them under what conditions they can activate it, but not what it does

i feel like this was how the game was intended to be played considering identify exists, but ive seen so many dms just tell players what magic items do

[stone hollow]

how do i figure out the right cr for creatures to use against a level 7 party

[timber sleet]

dont bother with cr, the system is broken and super unreliable. look at your parties stats and abilities, then look at the monsters stats and abilities, and combine that with the context of the encounter to determine if you're using the right monsters. its a bit difficult at first, but as you get more experienced with dming it gets easier

[stone hollow]

[timber sleet]

my biggest tip with dming is dont be afraid to fuck up your first few campaigns, pretty much everyone does. afterward, ask your players what they feel couldve been improved about the campaign and use their advice to improve as a dm

[stone hollow]

i've been running games for like 4 years just not dnd exactly. Ran a dnd campaign a few years back but never really grasped cr or what the appropriate creatures were

[sand hornet]

Frankly CR is bullshit, as stated above

In my games I always just, trusted my gut

[modest echo]

you are, not alone there
I think @craggy cloak has a site for a better approximation of challenge?

[stone hollow]

i think im just gonna throw a ton of cr 3s at them and see what happens

[timber sleet]

yeah, i made the mistake of trusting cr in my first campaign and made the final fight a "hard" encounter, party steamrolled it

[sand hornet]

My first combat in 5e involved me sending Clowns at the party

I made them myself

[timber sleet]

twilight clerics tend to do this

ive noticed that a lot of the later books have a lot of power creep

[sand hornet]

You're not the only one

I've seen similar sentiment

[timber sleet]

races like bugbear and subclasses like twilight cleric and hexblade warlock are some big examples

seriously why did they give bugbear so much stuff, its a race not a class 😭

but eh, at the end of the day dnd isnt about balance, its not a videogame, its about fun

even if that final fight was really easy, everyone, including me, agreed that it was really fun to play

[craggy cloak]

https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-N4m46K77hpMVnh7upYa
https://dragnacarta.github.io/ChallengeRated/
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/198cfMfc3XgUufM6IxIVAkyQ8Zsdbt3JTvvH7vLkx5Xo/edit#gid=0

heres my goodies

theres another but its paywalled via patreon so im not sharing that cuz i respect the guy

using this i am currently 5 for 5 on actually giving level 1+2 parties thrilling combats, as well as keeping all my stuff up to level 10 really well balanced and engaging without worrying about randomly TPKing or Boring the party, especially when in conjunction with other lessons learned ( like stealing sitreps, being more liberal with enemy retreats or wrapping the tail end of combat up, etc)

[barren quarry]

little spitballed feat idea that turns the Find Familiar spell into a better Find Steed spell

in exchange for costing a whole feat

this is mainly just for my personal game. a player wanted a giant wolf as a mount and i was like "k how do i balance this"

i figured id share

the ability to change the damage types of the stat block's attacks to slashing or piercing lets you reflavor the creatures into almost anything you'd reasonably want

in my player's case theyre opting for switching the damage types to slashing to fit the wolf reflavoring

this is theoretically somewhat bonkers with some of the Pact of the Chain warlock invocations

so if youre interested in using that feat do so with some caution. this isnt well tested like what i usually post

[timber sleet]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/4540498-mannequin i recreated the mannequin from ultrakill in dnd

[barren quarry]

due to the AC of 19 and the Spider Climb mixed with the +9 to hit on Homing Shot, id pretty safely lable this as a CR 3 or 4

assuming a party size of 4 players, a party at level 2 will be limited almost strictly to cantrips to deal damage to it if its on any raised surface the melees cant get to. if you have ranged martials thats an option too.

assuming point buy stats for the sake of consistency, most characters would have a 17 or 18 in their major stat (16 from point buy and +2 from racial bonus or +1 if off bonu)

their To Hit bonus wont really be high enough to consistently hit it

and the +9 on the attack will often thwart most of the non tank characters AC. monk or a wizard with shield could survive for a bit though

[timber sleet]

i dont actually use cr for my games, and i use milestone leveling so its not even useful for xp, and i like to make my statblocks look professional, so i use the official methods to determine cr, which are very wack

according to official calculations this is cr 2, which is obviously very off

[barren quarry]

yeah CR is ass

i never use it either

id just recommend still caring about your CR whenever you share content with others. many dms may prefer CR, or they may be too new to be comfortable with throwing away the CR system

so you should try to consider a fair CR even if you dont use it, as long as youre sharing it with the world. it'd be a Feel Bad moment if someone went "oh cool ill use that! i like this content a lot!" and then their party gets dumpstered

id generally recommend doing away with standard CR measurements and relying on some baseline statistics to determine a more balanced CR

[timber sleet]

thats fair, ill do that more in the future

[barren quarry]

generally speaking i look at the average hit chance of the party at a given level assuming point buy stats, and i look at their average ac compared to the To Hit of the monster. if theres other factors like extreme damage on an ability or a lot of resistances, it can make things a little trickier

like having to account for melee characters not having any way to really deal damage to that thing unless someone casts Grease or some other way to knock it off a ceiling or wherever its couped up

that could effectively double its hp for example

if half the party cant fight it

its always a headache. i like your work though

its a cool critter

[stone hollow]

i really wanna play a college of swords bard that uses a longbow

[barren quarry]

I mean theres nothing stopping you. All of the abilities care about weapon attacks generically, not just melee

You just dont get a good fighting style. But theres lots of ways to get that. Multiclass in fighter or ranger, or just taking the feat that gives you one

[stone hollow]

oh i know the only thing stopping me is not being in a campaign lol

[barren quarry]

Oh lol

Once my book is a little more finished ill run a few 1 shots n ill invite you

Its a different setting n all that but the normal subclasses work just fine

[stone hollow]

[timber sleet]

im playing a drow assassin and have been looking through poisons and just learned about drow poison

do you guys think i could reasonabley make drow poison on my own for cheaper than normal? ive asked my dm but hes offline so i havent gotten a response yet so im mostly just curious what you guys think, even if your answers wont affect anything lmao

[barren quarry]

Drow poison is simultaneously awesome and terrible lol. As for if you can make it for cheaper, down to the campaign setting. Personally i would give my players a 20% discount or so

But i also make custom poisons and toxins because all of the poison/toxin variations got lost in the transition to 5e

So, some bias

[barren quarry]

actually if your DM is a chad i could maybe scrounge up some of my poison/toxin content n give it to you for them to review. if you'd like access to more than the like, 4 poisons that exist

[arctic yew]

you would never think this is a barbarian

[timber sleet]

what site are you using

[arctic yew]

google docs

[timber sleet]

oh

lmao

[arctic yew]

:p

[timber sleet]

do you have a blank character sheet i can put in google docs?

[arctic yew]

...yes but it will be weird

since we have doubled carry weight and instead of rolling we just get max health

so if you put "level 6 barbarian" you will just instantly get marked as having 72 health

[timber sleet]

i could modify it probably

we do average rounded up for health and normal carry weight

[arctic yew]

hold ooon

[stone hollow]

Rune knight fighter that uses a longbow

[tepid crane]

Is the bow the focus because if so why not just use arcane archer?

[craggy cloak]

If only arcane archer didn't have such harsh limits

[timber sleet]

ive decided im gonna make a homebrew subclass

a fighter subclass called the fencer, who's a more defensive fighter that relies on dex and int for ac and other defensive abilities

ill probably post it here once im done, before publishing it on dndbeyond, so that i can get balance advice, because i have no clue what im doing

[timber sleet]

wow, the dndbeyond homebrew subclass interface is so confusing

i just spent like 30 minutes getting overwhelmed while trying to make a subclass feature give acrobatics proficiency. thats it, thats all the subclass feature does.

[barren quarry]

I find that dndbeyond is generally insufferable as a content creator. I just use google documents and then i export them to actual formatting software to create my nicer pdf layouts

Dndbeyond makes me crave the void. Almost as much as roll20's user interface does

[timber sleet]

ok, im getting close to done with the first, poorly balanced poorly worded version

just need to make the level 15 and 18 features

[barren quarry]

I like your concept so send it to me whenever. Ill help with syntax n stuff

[timber sleet]

alright, heres it so far. its a complete mess, unbalanced, poorly worded, missing bits, but the general idea is here. any suggestions?

@barren quarry because you wanted to see it (sorry that its really shitty lmao)

[barren quarry]

First drafts are meant to be shitty. Iv never designed anything that was ideal on the first draft

For the acrobatics ability, given that fighters can take acrobatics, you should make it A B modal. As in, you either get proficiency or something else if you're already proficient

Could be expertise, could be a different skill

[timber sleet]

thats a good idea, i think ill go for expertise

[barren quarry]

Parry is reminiscent of one of the fighting styles. I cant remember if its protector or not, thiiiiiink it is? Its not inherently bad to have an ability sharing design space like that, its just something to consider.

However what is worth noting is that due to the damage blocking being int plus prof, itll snuff a lot of stuff.

5e has bounded accuracy problems, where generally speaking the to hit bonus can only be so big. Tacking on a minimum of +3 (+2 prof plus an assumed +1 int mod) is already very good. However, assuming point buy stats we could reasonably expect our fighter to have an int modifier of +3 or so (16 int). +5 ac minimum to a blocked attack would blow most attacks out of the water

Id recommend putting a use limit on it to compensate

Maybe 3x per long rest, or a number of uses equal to your proficiency bonus

It makes sense that it should be strong, its just that itll stonewall a lot of encounters

[timber sleet]

i was thinking about adding a way to limit it, but adding a "blank times per long rest" limitation does feel kind of odd in this case. ill start trying to come up with other limitations, but if i cant think of anything else i just limit it to a certain amount of times per long rest

[barren quarry]

You could play into fighter liking its short rests and do 2x per short rest

People need to recover after a fight, and parrying is intensive on the mind and body

Short rest recovery gives it dungeon slogging potential, where it can be carefully managed to great effect, but falls anemic if the fighter is caught out for too long

Which is how a lot of duelists would be in a fight anyways. That shit is tiring

Alternatively you could pivot entirely and go into a point pool or dice system

Like sorcery points or battle dice

But those systems tend to demand large amounts of design space, so they take over the subclass mechanically

They can still be interesting though

[timber sleet]

i think ill do the short rest idea, i dont want to get too close to a battle master fighter

[barren quarry]

Fair. If you wanna play around with targets and rewards, you could also try something like regaining a use on a critical hit n stuff

Just keep in mind that using targets and rewards forces players to optimize for a specific playstyle. Theyre great at getting a style of play to come out, but theyre limited in terms of anything else a player might want to do

[slender nexus]

You might want to rephrase Reaction Surge to something like "...can use a bonus action to gain an additional two reactions until the end of your next turn", at first I read it as two per turn until your next turn

[barren quarry]

Addressing Reaction Surge, it should just say "2 additional reactions". Having the per turn means every turn

Ohp same brain

[timber sleet]

yeah ill change that

idk why i worded it like i did

[slender nexus]

(Also, maybe make it until start of your next turn, so it lasts a round instead of a round and a turn)

[barren quarry]

Lark is right about it being till start of next turn

[timber sleet]

alright, changed the wording on reaction surge and made it until the start instead of end

[barren quarry]

Retaliatory Strike needs a strict use limit if its gonna remain a stun. I dont think theres anything wrong with it besides that

[stone hollow]

cause i prefer to not have my cool thing be only available twice

[barren quarry]

Also i like Patient Defence, its an interesting use of the contested check system

[slender nexus]

Patient Defense is a bit awkward with it potentially setting up a bunch of different minute-long effects with different start times and targets at once, in general 5e tries to avoid that with concentration or having the ability stop applying if you apply it to someone else

[barren quarry]

But id recommend only letting you have the benefit against one creature at a time

[timber sleet]

how does 2 times per short rest sound? i kinda wanna lean into the short rest idea

[slender nexus]

(Also I think Monks have a feature of the same name)

[timber sleet]

thats a good idea

[barren quarry]

Sounds good to me

[slender nexus]

Same brain again lmao

[barren quarry]

Lol

[timber sleet]

oh, they do, i didnt realize that

(still doesnt explain why dndbeyond says this is too similar to circle of spores druid)

[barren quarry]

Rename it to Mind Games perhaps? Or 3 Steps Ahead

[timber sleet]

oo, i like that

[barren quarry]

Hey good design is good design. When dnd has such simple frameworking its not too hard to reach the same conclusions lol

[slender nexus]

You could have it be int mod per rest, makes it very strong in later levels but Fighters always need the help

[timber sleet]

ill go with that, it sounds good

[barren quarry]

True. The issue with large amounts of uses is just that using the bonus action for reaction surge and having access to parry forces the stun attacks to open up

You can consistently manipulate your reaction count and the ac of targets to guaruntee getting stabs off

Which is the point and i think it has a good game plan

But too many consistent stabs is tricky. Especially because theyre also crits

[slender nexus]

On the one hand yeah, on the other hand it's a melee-only ability at level 10

[barren quarry]

Thats true

Might just be down to playtesting. At the very least, having it be int mod based encourages characters to invest in their int more

Which helps parry as well

[slender nexus]

Speaking of which, it would be nice to give an int skill proficiency at level 3 as well, not a huge balance impact but it makes the class just feel better

[barren quarry]

Insight

Feels better

But its wisdom

So i cry

Mmmhhhhh. Maybe letting you use int for insight as well? All the int skills are cliche nerd skills

[slender nexus]

Hmmm, could give proficiency + the ability to use insight with int

[barren quarry]

Same brain

[slender nexus]

...we've got to stop doing this XD

[barren quarry]

Dude are we the same person today or something?

Lol

We keep sharing the brain cell back n forth

[slender nexus]

Getting it its exercise

[barren quarry]

My brain just suddenly reminded me of freakin, league of legends fiora Q. How she scoots a bit with each stab. Letting you have a 5 foot hop on attack might be cool

[timber sleet]

thats a good idea, ill do that

[slender nexus]

For 18th level, you could give some sort of reactive mobility, like the option to move 30ft to an ally that's attacked

...

[barren quarry]

bruh

Get off the brainwave channel man we're too synced up xD

[slender nexus]

(Or actually move up to your speed probably)

[timber sleet]

im also taking advice from another server and someone suggested moving the current 15th level ability to 18th level, as its really powerful, and making 15th level some kind of defense bonus when using a finesse weapon, thoughts on that?

[barren quarry]

I kinda disagree. At 15th level wizards are casting Cataclysmic Ball Buster and god knows what else

Fighter needs the help

[timber sleet]

ah, true

[slender nexus]

Note that if you're adding a limit on how often you can parry, the power of that ability is indirectly limited

[barren quarry]

Late game fighter is basically just "i am the tank. Why? Because the wizard does 10x the damage and the only redeeming trait i have is hp, unless i built for Nova"

If a fighter goes Nova then the gm should probably be shitting themselves a little bit. But outside that honestly fighter isnt too scary past level 12

Compared to everyone else

[barren quarry]

Also that

They might be recommending the delay to 18 due to there being no use limit

[timber sleet]

yeah, thats also true

so ill keep the 15th level as is

well, other than making it only apply to one creature at a time

[slender nexus]

Fighter is somewhat better than people give them credit for if they have the mobility or range to hit, since lategame saves + legendary resistance get silly, but it's still basically impossible to make a Fighter subclass OP

[timber sleet]

speaking of which, what are your suggestions on wording this? im not quite sure how

[barren quarry]

I would... Beg to differ. Inexperienced kippie's first few homebrews were baaaaaaaad

[slender nexus]

The point of comparison for a 15th level feature is "is it better than turning off the weave in an area for ten minutes?" Because that's what Clerics get

[slender nexus]

Okay fair

[barren quarry]

I might go back and rework those now that i have experience in game design stuffs

I had a gladiator fighter subclass idea

Like pantheon from league mixed with cool movie scenes and a hint of captain america

Shield sledding was one of the only features id probably keep

[slender nexus]

This effect ends early if you are incapacitated or you die, or if someone else marks the creature.

This is how Cavalier words their ability, so probably something like:

This effect ends early if you apply this effect again

[barren quarry]

"This effect ends early whenever you use this ability again" would be the dnd syntax

Basically what lark put

[timber sleet]

ah, i see, thank you

[slender nexus]

Breath of the Wild has entered the chat

[barren quarry]

Yeeeee

[slender nexus]

(Note that this specific verbiage would end it even if you then failed the check)

[barren quarry]

Shield sledding, very very good spears, being able to throw the shield at people

[slender nexus]

Shield Bash my beloved

[barren quarry]

True. "Successfully use this ability again"

[barren quarry]

Ye. I might rework it. It used a point pool system and each subclass level let you choose 2 moves from a 3 move list

Build your own fighting style sorta thing

Activating the moves costed points

You could go spear heavy or shield heavy or a mix

[slender nexus]

Let! Every! Fighter! Use! Maneuvers!

Doesn't solve martial woes, but sure helps a lot

[barren quarry]

Theres some great 3rd party content that gives all the martials their own little maneuver systems

[slender nexus]

(Then have subclass-specific options in addition to their features)

[barren quarry]

My book's solution for martials is a fighting game combo system thats biased to close range characters

With feats for casters and ranged characters to get in on it as a tax of sorts

[slender nexus]

👀

Not entirely a fan of ranged characters being excluded by default, since they do share the melee issue of "I attack, and do nothing else"

But I'd have to see it to have a real opinion ofc

[timber sleet]

alright, i think this is good, now all i have to do is figure out the 18th level ability

[barren quarry]

Its tiered. The way the system works, you need to be in a set range, and you get to make reaction attacks with some flashy stuff. Ranged characters get access if theyre close

Theres a feat that removes the range limit

[slender nexus]

Oh good

Yeah that seems reasonable

[barren quarry]

Mages are screwed and NEED to get a feat to use the system

Cause, mages

[slender nexus]

Makes an interesting positioning game

[barren quarry]

I can log onto my pc n get you a screenshot, hold on

I say as i sit down in my chair n sit on my glasses -_-

Thank god theyre plastic

[slender nexus]

I would bump Parry up to proficiency bonus times per short rest

[barren quarry]

i need to do more work on this dang book. i only just finished the vehicle building system T.T

hard to maintain motivation sometimes

[timber sleet]

i like that lunge idea, maybe as a reaction to an ally you can see getting hit you can move half your movement speed directly towards them, and this movement doesnt trigger attacks of opportunity? and maybe you get an attack of opportunity against the attacking creature if you reach them

idk just throwing ideas out

[barren quarry]

wacky idea, legendary action to lunge

[slender nexus]

Oh, and Battlemasters have a maneuver called Parry, so might want to add an adjective

[barren quarry]

no turn order, only condition is at the end of someone's turn

do the zoom

give the fighter a legendary action to scoot around the map

as the 18th

[slender nexus]

That's silly and I kind of love it

[barren quarry]

well yes it must be lol. its the level 18 ability

give me silly or give me death

its not like the game is even balanced past level 13

so who cares. level 18 is when campaigns start to end IF you even get that far up there

most campaigns dont go above level 12

[slender nexus]

But don't you want to get one (1) use of Bardic Inspiration per fight (if and only if you've already run out)

[barren quarry]

everyone sits there saying "oh but its broken!" when wizard is casting Grand Yeet, Destroyer of Worlds and the cleric is summoning god

[timber sleet]

do you mean as a reaction to another creatures turn ending, or just whenever?

[barren quarry]

nope just whenever. legendary actions like bosses have

where it doesnt take action economy

they can do it once a round

[timber sleet]

lmao thats great

[barren quarry]

so it would refresh on their turn start

[slender nexus]

Probably only once per round

[timber sleet]

yep im doing that

[barren quarry]

but once a round whenever someone ends their turn they can zoom

and make a stab or something

also lark heres the combo system from my book

[slender nexus]

(Less for balance purposes and more because they're already doing a bunch of stuff outside their turns already)

[barren quarry]

it doesnt allow magic casting in the system by default, so you have to take this feat if youre a mage

and ranged martials get to use the system within a set range but they can uncap the range with this feat

the system also heavily improves grappling focused characters, so it becomes a valid and well appreciated playstyle in any team

which handily solves the "grappling bad" argument

[timber sleet]

hmm, any suggestions? i cant think of anything

[slender nexus]

Hey, grappling is good (if you then Trip Attack them and have melee allies)

[barren quarry]

its a combination of fighting game assists combined with guilty gear strive wall splatting

[barren quarry]

the abilities are so distinct it doesnt matter

one is a sub ability managed by a dice pool, the other is a unique and isolated subclass ability

you could maybe have an issue if they took the feat that gives maneuvers?

[slender nexus]

Hm, not a huge fan of keying off of CR rather than a percentage of HP, leads to some awkwardness around creatures that have EHP modified by resistance/vulnerability/etc

[barren quarry]

but its literally an ability that Parrys attacks so i dont see a reason to change it

[slender nexus]

But otherwise I like that

[barren quarry]

it was necessary due to game balancing. some enemies have almost no hp compared to other enemies in the same cr bracket

i had to base the system off a consistent and easily calculatable control point

CR is the only thing that really does the trick

i did include the always breaking on half hp as a stop gap though

so theres some guarunteed break applications at all times

[slender nexus]

That's pretty much my point, they have reduced or inflated HP for a reason

[barren quarry]

yeah annoyingly. but i cant build a system around a dynamic value. hp has so many odd amounts that you cant build a consistent and easy to use incremental system around it

every gm that uses the system would have to calculate 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 hp or something

for every creature

and when a creature has 137 hp you kinda just wanna shoot yourself

it was so user hostile that i couldnt make it work

[slender nexus]

1/10th or 2/10ths wouldn't be too bad, but yeah, beyond that would be painful

[barren quarry]

2/10ths was tested, but the damage threshold was so low that it was popping with almost every attack

[slender nexus]

And there are other things that key off CR in 5e, I just find it... inelegant

[barren quarry]

im still testing the system, so if i can find a better fix ill use that

yeah it is, i agree

theres just only so much i can do to manage a system as cleanly as possible while still having it apply universally to all creature stat blocks

[slender nexus]

Could just do crit or bring it below half? IIRC that's how PF2e does it for some creatures

Ofc PF2e has crit on AC+10, so that's more reliable

[barren quarry]

on crit had the issue of being out of reach to almost everyone. it didnt feel rewarding because players couldnt intentionally use resources to try to reach threshold

so it felt like gambling

it wasnt satisfying and felt like a dud niche mechanic, when its supposed to be front and center in the book

its the system the experience of the book is built around so it has to be engaging and intentionally accessible

[slender nexus]

Makes sense

[barren quarry]

its a tough one to juggle

[slender nexus]

Btw I love the idea of an archer dropping an action surged flurry of arrows and their entire melee squad blinking out to follow up

[barren quarry]

exaaaaactlyyyy

the book is anime and videogame inspired, with a strong focus on fighting games

it also has some vibes/themes borrowed from rock n roll and the punk scene

[slender nexus]

Book of Nine Swords (5e ver.)

[barren quarry]

its meant to be explosive and fun for everyone to use. the big aim is that when one person does well everyone benefits

so no one gets left out

[slender nexus]

I wants it

(Please poke me when you've got a working draft)

[barren quarry]

the book is full of cheaky references from all sorts of games and anime, like roboquest, ruby, the mario series n all sorts of stuff

[barren quarry]

id love to!

[timber sleet]

alright, heres my current level 18 ability:
Lunge
Starting at 18th level, once per round, at the end of another creatures turn, you can move up to half your movement speed towards the creature that just ended its turn. If you reach the creature using this, then you can make an attack of opportunity without spending a reaction.
the idea is here, but i still need suggestions on wording

[barren quarry]

you dont need the comma between "once per round" and "at the end of another creatures turn". you can also use "that creature" instead of the bulky "creature that just ended its turn" clause

"if you move within your weapon's reach of that creature, you can make.."

[timber sleet]

thank you

sorry im not good at wording this lmao, ive been really tired these past few days

[slender nexus]

"When another creature you can see ends its turn, you can move up to half your movement speed towards that creature."

[barren quarry]

no worries. first drafts are never pretty

lark's version is a little cleaner

[slender nexus]

(Also I might bump it up to full movement speed, it's level 18)

[barren quarry]

agreed

and most fighters wont get past 40ft movespeed in general

[slender nexus]

And if they do, let them benefit from it!

Have your hasted Tabaxi fighter go nyoooom

[timber sleet]

"Starting at 18th level, once per round, when another creature you can see ends its turn, you can move up to your movement speed towards that creature. If you move within your weapon's reach of that creature, you can make an opportunity attack against it without using a reaction."

[barren quarry]

btw, since youre interested, heres some movement rules from my book lark

[timber sleet]

this good?

[barren quarry]

"whenever" instead of when. 5e uses "whenever" as much as possible

id also maybe make it "towards that creature as a free action"

[slender nexus]

5E has weird grammar in general, it uses keywords that pretend not to exist

[barren quarry]

to help clarify rules stuff for people

[barren quarry]

yeah its a whole deal

[timber sleet]

alright

again, thank you so much for this

[slender nexus]

Huh, I'm assuming there's abilities that key off these?

[barren quarry]

certain items from the book care about you using them. and also the book's location setting has zone rules where different areas have obstacles and other hazards

so its good for getting around

[pure elm]

5e wording is "great" because there actually are a lot of unwritten rules concerning it
And then WotC just goes around and breaks them anyway lmao

[barren quarry]

right lol

also lark if youre interested, i could get you the concept list of all the subclasses in the book. not all of the subclasses are complete yet and they need more drafting. but the concepting 1 liners for them are all finished

so their identity has been solidified

theres a rogue that plays like iceclimbers from smash bros melee, if that gives you any idea of how fucking weird my book is

[slender nexus]

Might be a bit cleaner to put flavor after the level and split the effect into a new sentence - something like

Starting at 18th level, you can respond to threats in an instant. Once per round, when...

[barren quarry]

yeah flavor is always in front

as a formatting thing for 5e

its just good to do in general honestly. putting flavor anywhere else can confuse readers

[slender nexus]

I'll probably wait until there's a draft, prefer to have at least some mechanics to compare

[barren quarry]

gotcha

lots of stuff to finish drafting so it might be a bit lol. items, vehicle rules, subclasses, some simplified potion making rules, a proper quest system for the adventure module section

i probably wont include all the quests in the initial draft. the adventure module half is its own beast that needs time and care

so itll be getting done after the mechanics get built up

[slender nexus]

Sounds like a heck of a project!

[barren quarry]

it is T.T

[timber sleet]

dndbeyond, question: what the fuck are you on

[barren quarry]

its a full rules and setting book building on 5e. custom setting, custom combat mechanics that i showed you, new feats, a new background feat system, 14 new subclasses (might be almost doubling we'll have to see), vehicle rules, rules for building hideouts, 15 bosses, 5 story routes all playable in the same setting for replayability, more shit

so, im gonna be working on this for a long time

at some point ill have to hire artists. id like to get it up on kickstarter by the end of the year

[slender nexus]

Looking forward to it!

[barren quarry]

for the missing levels, did you designate them properly? i think theres a system where you have to basically tell dndbeyond that X ability is for X level

[barren quarry]

i also have a much smaller side project that will eventually get done. its all about musical subclasses and rules for having campaigns that are all about that Show on The Road style

i tend to create things that are a total departure from usual 5e lore/settings

i just like it as a system because its clean and concise. if i need mechanics i introduce streamlined concepts from other ttrpgs built to work in 5e

or i come up with fresh ones

[slender nexus]

Has the benefit of a much larger audience too

[barren quarry]

that too

[slender nexus]

A lot easier to sell a group on tweaked 5e

[barren quarry]

yeah. iv got some buddies who are working on their own systems and its a lot of work for them

iv got my own system i stuck on the back burner till im more experienced. i doubt itll ever be succesful if i finish it, but itd be fun to make

[slender nexus]

The eternal trial of the writer, the evergrowing tower of WIPs

[barren quarry]

uuuuuuugh yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup

im also an artist so i have half finished projects all over the damn place. most of them will stay that way

[slender nexus]

I gtg actually work on my work, good luck on the brewing!

[barren quarry]

later lol

[timber sleet]

im pretty sure, theres a thing under each subclass ability that says "required class level" and i have all of those filled out

[barren quarry]

hmmmmmm

[timber sleet]

oh, i fucked around for a while and it fixed both issues somehow

????

i dont even know what i changed

[barren quarry]

it honestly might just be on some shit. i dont even know where the spore druid thing came from

maybe it was convinced you were making a druid subclass?

that would explain both issues

[timber sleet]

alright, and one final look-over before i publish it

[barren quarry]

for the acrobatics, add "instead" to the end

[timber sleet]

alright, done

[barren quarry]

"regaining all expended uses whenever you finish a short or long rest" for parry

minimums are written numerically, so itd be (minimum of 1) for reaction surge

remove "of it" on the regaining uses as well

[timber sleet]

oh, thats odd, i was basing it off of the cavalier fighter's warding maneuver, which is worded like "You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Constitution modifier (a minimum of once), and you regain all expended uses of it when you finish a long rest."

[barren quarry]

oh, go with that then

WoTC changes their mind all the time

[timber sleet]

i love consistency :)

[barren quarry]

if they printed it its fine as far as im concerned

for Retaliatory Strike you can get rid of the comma after "if you are wielding a finesse weapon"

also change "if this attack hits, it is a critical hit" to "if this attack hits it becomes a critical hit"

its a slight change but its from assassin rogue

you can also remove the "of it" on the regaining uses again

for 3 steps ahead you can get rid of the comma after "against a creature's attack" in that first part

"that creature has disadvantage" instead of gets

values are numberic so it would be "1 minute" instead of "one minute"

[timber sleet]

should it be "once per round" instead of "once per turn" you think?

[barren quarry]

no its fine that way

it lets them change their mind

instant threat reassessment is in flavor with the theme

[timber sleet]

alright

[barren quarry]

for lung it would be "if you end your movement within..."

to signify you cant move any further before making the attack

and with that i thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiink its all good

[timber sleet]

should it be "this movement" so that theres no confusion with other movement

[barren quarry]

yeah that could work better

its a little abnormal but this is an abnormal ability, so i think it makes sense

[timber sleet]

alright, i think thats everything

fencer has been published

[barren quarry]

niiiiice

[timber sleet]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/subclasses/2109878-fencer

[cedar rose]

i forgot

that points buy is a thing

oops

[craggy cloak]

Point Buy my beloved

The only way i like to run the game

[sage vector]

I have voluntarily done 3d6 down the line no rerolls no rearranging stats before

The thrill of deciding to shoot yourself in the foot

[timber sleet]

i hate rolling, and im fine with standard array (although when i do it i usually give it a small buff, like increasing a number by 2 usually), and i love pointbuy

[barren quarry]

My friends like to roll because it stops us from optimizing as much. The gm will give occasional mulligans if the stats are something awful like all 10s and lower, but we generally like the challenge of building a fun character out of more random stats

I use 4d6 drop lowest buuuuut reroll any 1s till there arent any 1s left first

Stabilizes the truly garbage rolls

[lament geode]

I have found myself in a D&D game because someone is running in the precise specific timeslot that works for me

Which is very funny to me

but Path of the Storm Herald Barbarian go brr

https://tenor.com/view/lo-l-league-of-legends-udyr-udyr-rework-anivia-gif-26603231

[sage vector]

What happens if you combine a path of storms barbarian and a rune knight fighter?

[final phoenix]

Go wild magic barbarian!

[stone hollow]

i wish cantrips didn't count as spells so I could use booming blade as a barb

Like, zealot barb with booming blade would go hard as hell

[barren quarry]

Thor combined with the avatar, basically

"By these ancient runes i smite theeeee" explosion somewhere off in the next village

[barren quarry]

Also, agreed. Tbh if i evet get around to doing a tweaked barbarian one of the things id do is allow cantrip casting in rage so long as it does damage

Rogue gets to abuse booming blade so idk why barbarian shouldnt be allowed. Also, properly magical barbarians deserve more design space set aside for them. Its a cool concept

[slender nexus]

I assume it's to disallow EB shenanigans

[barren quarry]

id assume. but it could be as easy as specifying that rage only continues via weapon damage

cantrips eat an action, so eldritch blasting will end your rage cause its not weapon damage

wanna use a cantrip? go for it. just dont regret it

but the blade tricks like booming blade are fine cause the weapon deals damage as part of the cantrip

so it just fixes itself right then n there

[slender nexus]

Chugging poison before the fight to take damage every turn

(But yeah that'd do it)

[ashen hollow]

Pov: Your GM forgot to make a token for the dragon turtle fight

[barren quarry]

Thats amazing

That gives me such monty python vibes

[arctic yew]

i need 5 minibosses

so far i have

one complete

one about 1/3 of the way complete

and 3 that barely have names

[barren quarry]

we would need a ton more info about the setting, player levels and party makeup, current quests/objectives, n other stuff to properly help out with that

since boss design is always so subjective to each campaign

[arctic yew]

i will try and give as many things that i think are pertinent as i can

currently level 6,although they dogwalked a cr 8 encounter at level 3 that they were supposed to sneak through or get hyper murdered so i dont really know if it matters

the party composition is very fluid since i stupidly decided to let a tag out mechanic where you can have up to 3 characters at once (but only play as one at a time) if you wanna play as something else. so far however,its a bard,a sorcloc,a ranger and a mounted fighter homebrew class

as for the setting,all 5 minibosses are basically underlings of the main boss of this organization wich... i really hope you have some familiarity with wow,because they are honestly very similar to the scarlet crusade,a group of previously righteous holy men and women that helped the common people in times of crisis,now turned to a radical group that still helps but also is very very VERY trigger happy with burning people on stakes for perceived heresy.

Magdalene,the Obsessed. finger of lust

Solomon,the Omnipresent. finger of sloth

Samson,the Breaker. finger of wrath

Cain. finger of envy

Judas. finger of greed. (yes,i know,i am incredibly subtle in my naming conventions,thank you.)

i am thinking of giving magdalene something like....copying/disabling main class abilities of the players? or something equally horrifying to deal with

[barren quarry]

oof, thats a tough spot huh. the tag in is cool but it does make challenging the players a little impossible sometimes lol. although as long as theyre having fun it works out

given the holy background id recommend designing a few with spell lists. consider some paladin spells like the smites

magdalene currently doesnt work though. in most circumstances, a charmed character would never try to break out of a grapple/restrain

so if the party members get grappled theyre almost guaranteed to permanently lose combat power for the fight. youd need a wizard fireballing the ribbons on repeat

after 2 characters are grappled the fight is likely over

even if other characters are using actions to release characters, giving up an action isnt too different from being stunned

so they'd bleed action economy while the boss makes 4 attacks a turn

id recommend examining the stat blocks of existing demons/devils and angels and merging mechanics you like with flavor tweaks to create these bosses instead of thinking up everything from scratch. it'll make your life easier + itll be more likely to turn out more balanced

you could use the Chain Devil mechanics for magdalene's ribbons for example

your players dumpstering a CR 8 fight at level 3 does make me wonder what circumstances you got yourself into though. i assume the fighter homebrew was partially a factor, but id bet theres some rules or items or something that are twisting the outcome as well

though it may have simply been a case of "right tool for the job". some encounters fold simply based on character toolset and thats just how it is

[arctic yew]

Oh no,the fighter homebrew came in literally yesterday

They were fighting a shitload of basilisks but they managed to set up a perfect murderbox for then in their cave

[barren quarry]

ah, so your players are tactically inclined then. i wouldnt worry about that then. if you want to challenge them, dont make the stats bigger or the abilities scarier. just make the enemies smarter

throw enemies at them that use their own tactics and adapt to situations

if murder box: fireball

obviously dont make the random wildlife big brained tho lol

[arctic yew]

yes,that is why they are now fighting a militarized and combat-inclined faction for the first time now

[arctic yew]

that 2 int hitting different sometimes

[barren quarry]

right lol. i usually treat int 3 as intelligent enough to recognize a trap, int 5-7 as enough to try n do something about it, 8-11 knowing when to run away, and anything past that is some diabolical nonsense

with some wiggle room of course

[arctic yew]

i feel like solomon is gonna give then nightmares

even though he doesnt deal more than 20 damage per round

[barren quarry]

for magdalene, maybe consider giving her an emnity system where she locks on to specific characters. maybe drags them towards her or something and has a close range damage aoe or some other scary close range ability