Exalted

[velvet raft]

I agree with all of this, I just get a lot out of emerging out the other side

[fierce star]

oh shit I interrupted a discussion sorry

[spiral cosmos]

you're fine

[prisma sun]

I think you could re-do it about the inherent lie of reality itself and the default state of the world being primordial infinite chaos

Like a Primordial-centric SMA would rock

[spiral cosmos]

my only comment aside from quibbling about DBs qualifying is that this is a concept that has a lot of heat but the actual effect tied to it seems pretty weak and I'd expect something crazier

[velvet raft]

It kinda becomes that

In the second half

[marsh garden]

i think one of the most important things about it is that it's also very self-impressed

it's so congratulatory of its own wisdom

a smugly smiling fellatory sort of magnanimity

[fierce star]

Well, that's just the baseline starter evocation. The remaining evocations would be upgrades to it that would end up capstoning with 'make a multiattack with every weapon in your halo, use tools as improvised weapons, they have artifact stats now, got a shield in there? it defend others you for free'

as a five dot it'd have a lot of 'build the character around the artifact' evocations

[marsh garden]

which goes past even the obsession with one's own perfect logic

[wise ocean]

the trick is to combo it with things that also boost your hitrate so you can then transfer thirty billion extra successes as damage dice which then get tripled

the albicant 27HL combo is one of my favorite little things I've accomplished with the abyssal dollmaker suite, albeit it still really comes into its own against armies instead of people
it is, however, completely unknown what kind of army exists which would require that kind of cosmic power

[fierce star]

oh, and herp, forgot

[prisma sun]

I love how the guy least able to make use of this on the field is the one who invented this

[fierce star]

it should have Resonant: Resonant users awaken this evocation tof ree

[prisma sun]

Forsaken is so fucking pissed

[marsh garden]

usually that's non-dissonant

[spiral cosmos]

if I'm being real I don't think BKoL is good or even well considered in the context of Exalted at all, but through that it ends up being interesting in ways that I think people sleep on, like it gets good by accident. my reservations with the second half are that I feel like it starts rerunning PAOC a little bit and becomes less interesting for it? I'm not very compelled by its posits about the whole "become like a Primordial" thing, I think it's just brainworms and doesn't gel at all with the setting.

I don't mind it as, like, a sort of Sethian demiugic "reality is all lies therefore I will use this to weaponize the ones I want, bow before my solipsistic playing with reality like LEGOs" shit, though

The optimism of the ending just does not work for me at all

[spiral cosmos]

this is genuinely just my opinion though and you don't need to privilege it for my having worked on the line

[prisma sun]

I love how Chejop had this and he just kinda gets stabbed in the back by Big E in Return of the Scarlet Empress

[velvet raft]

I don’t know quite how to express this, but I love how the master scripture expresses a sort of persistent idealism in the face of its own conclusions while not undercutting how awful it all is at all

[spiral cosmos]

that makes sense, although I think for 5 dots you sorta want a scale of effect too, like you wanna try and think big to justify the merit dots

[marsh garden]

opinions are more interesting than facts

[velvet raft]

But also like that’s not necessarily useful as a set of game mechanics

[marsh garden]

tbh while it's the scripture i'm not sure i'd say that's reflected in any way outside of the capstone

[velvet raft]

It’s thematically interesting to me but it’s also kinda dissonant as a package of player options

[spiral cosmos]

I think you could have a sort of optimism in the flavor text pretty successfully, it's just like, I think ending on the student sutra makes the point of its identity sharper and bunting to the flavor text lets you frame that idealism in a way where it preserves the bad vibes

Optimistic that I'm going to enjoy reality being fake lies garbo anyway as I kill you via my demiurge queen technique :)

[marsh garden]

because the other elder sutra charms are still "demiurge mean-mugging your victims" charms

[bleak hazel]

sometimes I have wondered if it might be fun to have an alt-capstone secret technique on a couple of SMAs that's basically "I have fully understood your philosophy and choose to reject it", mutually exclusive with the normal capstone

probably ruins the vibe a bit too much unless it's outright like, Veridian Labyrinth of Choice Style or something

[spiral cosmos]

if i were taking a swing at the style's lore I think i would just build on the 2e representation, so it's a style that Sidereals sort of categorically do not talk about. The only person in the Fellowship who knows where it's from is Kejak by dint of his age and he refuses to ever tell anyone (maybe Rakan knows but even he won't). extremely fucking bad vibes, most Sidereals don't use it, won't usually teach it, and people who do know it don't like to be asked about it/get really weird when the topic comes up

[fierce star]

That's fair. Honestly the dot value came after the fluff? thought with that fluff it maybe should be N/A, but then Ican't build a character with it, lol.

[marsh garden]

"the one that sids get weird about" sounds very compelling

[prisma sun]

I love the idea of Chejop having a style that he hopes dies with him

That feels very in-character

[fierce star]

but yeah I can give it more Initial Juice pretty easily.

the easy (but maybe too pwoerufl) thing is let it make exceptional quality tools and artifact-tier weapons

[velvet raft]

It’d be interesting to see the Master Scripture stuff as a set of secret techniques, ala what Misc said

And like, maybe phrase them as something that has not yet been invented

But I like the vision of “the most rancid style”

[prisma sun]

I feel like this would justify it being The Primordial Style even more

[velvet raft]

The first half is very much about minds and perception, so I can see not having it swerve into shaping physical reality

[prisma sun]

I like the idea of refocusing it more on sculpting the essence of living beings

[velvet raft]

… continued Mortalgame is looking unlikely. :(

[prisma sun]

[marsh garden]

oh no

got your work schedule?

[velvet raft]

Not yet, but the part of the job I want to do is Monday-Friday only

So if I get that (and I probably will get that) that’s probably it

[marsh garden]

ough, sorry to hear

[velvet raft]

Urrrrgh

[fierce star]

:<

[tulip folio]

Hmm...obviously it won't be the only effect but do you think this effect would be out of place in a form?

-The endlessly shifting illusions around the martial artist make even the largest enemy forces feel outnumbered, increasing the difficulty to avoid Rout of enemy battle groups in medium range by one.

Playing about with 'illusions' and how World-Devouring Warlord is 'Making it seem so obvious you can't lose that people don't even try to fight you'.

[fierce star]

I woulnd't say so; it's just another way to tell battlegroups to sit down and shut up

[tulip folio]

Yeah and my thoughts is that this style is 'Defence' and 'Telling Battle Groups to Shut Up'.

You're the World-Devouring Warlord, you are untouchable and no amount of armies can hope to stop you.

[fierce star]

nom nom nom.

[coral wraith]

Hey folks, if anyone has thoughts on this stormwind rider based sorcerous MA it'd be appreciated

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aB9XMJPal_yz9zxROrsjW_FHVk8RwukMtifR8hVSKeo/edit?usp=sharing

[velvet raft]

... I really like this

Kinda wish I could rework Robin using this

It's so cool

To clarify: is this intended to be compatible with all unarmed-friendly MAs?

Because as written it is, which is a very strong thing

I am bad at charm balance, but again: I like it a lot.

[prisma sun]

Looks good

[velvet raft]

I'm not certain Eye of the Storm Enlightenment needs to be 1/story

It definitely needs some kind of reset condition but I'm unsure if it needs to be that restrictive

[coral wraith]

Oop I knew I forgot something

Need to ban compat by making the wind fists a unique weapon

[coral wraith]

Mostly patterning it off Dead Spouse Defense since it's like that but has additional juice components

[velvet raft]

You might want to give it limited compatibility in the way that Flying Guillotine has, where they're considered equivalent to something

Flying Guillotine can be used with chakram styles, iirc

[coral wraith]

[velvet raft]

This might sound odd but if you made it Iron Boots it'd get a decent selection of compatibility, notably Falcon, without being too wild

[coral wraith]

I was actually literally thinking that

[velvet raft]

Although Falcon w/this has the issue of falcon wanting a bunch of strength still

Either way, Centipede, Falcon, and Swaying Grass Dance are the boots weapons

[wise ocean]

tbf that's silent storm/falcon/some kind of str-for-dex-in-parry replacer, which is definitely a build

[velvet raft]

True, true

[fierce star]

Today it wa spointed out to me that righteous devil form treats flame pieces as medium melee weapons even though they're light ranged, and lets you use them with spear or staff compatible styles. Is there any spear/staff style that would benefit from the +2 clash from identicle weapons there?

[velvet raft]

CChameleon is of course a spear style

[fierce star]

hmm but ccham wants the form up a lot

[velvet raft]

If you're doing stealth stuff

[wise ocean]

golden janissary 🙂

[velvet raft]

It's possible to do ccham and neglect the stealth side of it

[wise ocean]

I mean this unironically, you can get +2 clash from identical weapons on the golden janissary withering clash and then it's gg

[fierce star]

... holy shit that's a good point

[velvet raft]

White Reaper is also spears

[fierce star]

it doesn't clash too much though iirc?

[wise ocean]

not at all

[fierce star]

yeah

I'm mostly thinking specifically waht can take advantage of a PC using flame pieces being able to get +2 to clash, evne if they have the shield tag

[wise ocean]

gj withering clash has damage limited to ovw, iirc, which means shield tag gets eaten by that anyway as a nonfactor

[velvet raft]

Hot take: the Flying Guillotine should count as a gyroscopic chakram for purposes of Thousand Wounds Gear

[wise ocean]

not sure whether bayonets count as light or medium melee, but with +2 for paired weapons you're looking at a clash accuracy of Yes

[fierce star]

the weapon from righteous devil form is specifically medium regardless of any other bits

medium,b ashing, shield, martial arts

a bayonet just turns bashing into lethal

[wise ocean]

ah, very good.

[spiral cosmos]

bayoneta...

[prisma sun]

https://youtu.be/lPHr9ghVyNU?si=4msPhPN1UWmi30hR

How every exalted game should end

[tulip folio]

100%

[spiral cosmos]

powerful

[buoyant summit]

Currently trying to find out in the Abygame we're in whether Eye and Seven provided weapons to Heaven for their invasion of Stygia

Which is going to be

fucking difficult cuz apparently the man is a hermit whom no one lives near and who has an adversarial relationship with his own knights, thusly unlikely to tell them anything

[coral wraith]

Ehhh not really?

He treats them like favoured pupils

Just never equals

[marsh garden]

it's more that they're highly eccentric and that this eccentricity extends to being super invasive

their shortform characterization in Abyssals involves a lot of inspired genius flitting between projects and bursting into rooms because they just had a new idea

[prisma sun]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIqmskim2jg

[marsh garden]

and a lot of indulgence in their deathknights, but expecting their knights to indulge them in turn

actually i should just

post the thing

they will be kekkling over your unconscious body when you stumble back to base and pass out after an exhausting mission

waiting for you to wake up so they can go "new toy" or "new job"

which is great

[tulip folio]

I wonder what combat spells would be fun for martial arts

Vague Pondering: Everyone's favourite sphere of water for a defensive martial art.

[marsh garden]

Blood Lash is called out, but i'm not super interested in it because it's just already a weapon

this spell from aotr would be neat

very bad though

would need to be its own thing

oh oops i didn't post the whole thing

[tulip folio]

That doesn't seem like a terrible spell. Not super great against big people but it's a HUGE area.

Out to medium range is basically the entire battle.

[marsh garden]

depends on whether it's diff 3 or diff stat, but it's probably diff stat

[wise ocean]

sMA for the mfs spell that lets you shape mist would be fun

[prisma sun]

sMA for Summon First Circle Demon

[limpid badge]

Thousand Geotia-Warden Style

tattoo yourself with summoning circles and get demon-themed charms as you summon parolees

portal-punches from a gang of blood apes

[tulip folio]

Where is that spell from?

[marsh garden]

the one i posted?

adversaries

[tulip folio]

I might try updating that to player facing.

As it lacks stuff like 'as a control spell'

[velvet raft]

Virtuous Guardian of Flame

[limpid badge]

essence 3 is probably a good place to let the black blade of sorrows start eating battlegroups....

[velvet raft]

Thunder Clap Howl MA also sounds hilarious

[marsh garden]

virtuous guardian's one of the ones whose control gives evos, yeah?

[velvet raft]

I think so, yeah

[marsh garden]

could be cool

give you a ligiery setup

[limpid badge]

what about the living mask spell from infernals

that'd be funny

[velvet raft]

Ooh, or the sticky spell from the same

Grappling-based style founded on "oh god is that glue"

[limpid badge]

glue man

[coral wraith]

what kind of clothing do yall think the people of the Azurite Empire would wear? Across the Eight Directions doesn't give any indication, unfortunately

[tulip folio]

Glacier’s Touch
Cost: 12sm, 1wp
Keywords: Perilous
Duration: 5 Turns
The air within medium range becomes a heavy mist, choking all who breathe it, treat this as a difficulty 3 environmental hazard with damage 3L/round. This environmental hazard converts one damage die to an automatic success for each point of wound penalty or lost point of Size the affected character has. Characters with supernatural resistance to environmental cold are immune.

A character incapacitated by this spell is freezes, transforming into an unbreathing, unageing but still living ice statue as a Shaping(Body) effect. The effect may be undone with an Ambition 3 sorcerous working or an effect that can cure Shaping Effects or Sorcerous Curses.

Control: A Sorcerer who knows Glacier's Touch's breath as a control spell has an incredibly low body temperature, her breath misting in front of her when she speaks. She is immune to environmental effects based in cold. In addition, she can cure characters frozen with this spell with a touch or reflexively freeze characters she incapacitates.

Turned this into a more player-facing spell.

[tulip folio]

Isn't this them?

[coral wraith]

true, that is nice for an impression of magistrates and such

just not regular folks

[tulip folio]

That looks like a guy wearing a kabuto and menpō, so there's clearly some japan there.

[coral wraith]

[tulip folio]

The guy on the bottom in the middle also looks to have a Chonmage hairstyle

Which is very iconically Japanese.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/86/Two_Japanese_barbers%3B_to_the_left%2C_one_is_shaving_his_client_Wellcome_V0029727.jpg/960px-Two_Japanese_barbers%3B_to_the_left%2C_one_is_shaving_his_client_Wellcome_V0029727.jpg

Now obviously exalted is a lot of things

[coral wraith]

definitely a lot of Japan in the DNA, then

[tulip folio]

And I'd not just go 'they're exalted japan'

But with the sea focus and the elements of clothing, there looks to be some elements to it

Also notable is the architecture shown on the pages for the empire.

You see those sorts of upturned eaves all over asia. I've seen them in indonesia personally.

[coral wraith]

oh huh!

[tulip folio]

That said, the heavy focus on privateers ads some England/Spain/France to the mix.

Privateers and Letters of Marque is a very English/Spanish thing

And that guy seems to be wearing a Solid Breastplate.

Which puts some of the focus more 'Late 1500s+' if you want some more Japan.

Or could easily add some spanish to the mix.

Tosei-gusoku is solid plate breastplates instead of scales

[coral wraith]

ooohh

more in the European style

[tulip folio]

Yep, as they were designed to be able to handle matchlock firearms. Which exalted doesn't have but they do have crossbows aplenty

Oh, there's a bit in there that's definitively Korean

They have Turtle Ships

https://www.antiquealive.com/Blogs/images/history/geobukseon/Turtle-ship-Korea.jpg

So yeah, if I had to guess I'd go 'one part Japan, one part Korea, one part Spain'.

But that's a lot of educated guesses and 'Stuff in exalted can't be quite narrowed down to a single thing'

Turtle Ships, the general vibe of that armoured guy we saw and Privateers are the big points that jump out to me.

But that's just my thoughts from the data we have. Feel free to do your own thing there.

I hope that helps?

[velvet raft]

There was a lot of Japanese piracy of Chinese ships during the Edo period, fwiw

[tulip folio]

Oh yes, but Letters of Marque 'You are now formally a privateer for this nation' is a bit more British/Spanish.

And the thing does mention that being a privateer is a way to be wealthy and prestigious, since you're not a pirate.

[coral wraith]

absolutely, thank you very much for the assistance

[tulip folio]

How's this seem btw?

[coral wraith]

this rips Iki

[tulip folio]

the base effect is an existing spell but it had some serious mechanical issues and no control made me redo it.

The original version froze anyone who hit -4 but well, Lunars exist and that made them rapidly Not Exist.

[coral wraith]

oh god

infernals too

[tulip folio]

It also wasn't a Shaping Effect in the original spell but 'you got turned into an ice statue' feels shaping.

And helps protect PCs from it

[fierce star]

mfw I will never play an infernal with gazellecarp

[marsh garden]

gazellecarp?

[velvet raft]

The pinnacle charm for Dreaming Pearl

[marsh garden]

ahh

[velvet raft]

You die instantly if you hit -4s iirc

[marsh garden]

yeah, i remember now

not meant for non-solar play lol

[coral wraith]

Sids can use it okay if they really tank up but yeah, it's mainly for the solar/abyssal Resistance Freaks

[marsh garden]

oh yeah, sids also get a great safe defense suite

dead spouse defense, cracked mask sacrifice, etc. make it a lot less dicey

[velvet raft]

The humble Optimistic Security Whatsit

[marsh garden]

oh right, the casual 3m for -5d

or wait, is it -5?

ah yeah, -2/-5

[velvet raft]

I should do a Sid with these defining principles:

• Violence is cool and fun
• I will help you
• The future is gonna be rad

Just for intimacymaxxing purposes

[marsh garden]

but then you have to actually help people

[velvet raft]

Also the humble Hostility Acceptance Technique

And the humble Hero’s Iron Skin

[prisma sun]

I personally made their vibe very Korean because of their turtle ships

[velvet raft]

Considering maybe trying to run a game, the only solution to my need for an Exalted fix if I’m out of mortalgame may be to make my own supply

Maybe Alchemicals

[fierce star]

Many such cases, and how most of us get started

[velvet raft]

And that's it. No more mortalgame.

[fierce star]

rip, gkat. Sorry to hear it; sounds like it was a rip of a time while it lasted.

[lament owl]

The Boss Baby is a sidereal

[mighty rover]

Explain

[lament owl]

Heavenly Office Worker That Takes Upon A Role In Your Life And Plans To Simply Slip Away In The Future, from life aand memory

[mighty rover]

https://tenor.com/view/i-guess-memes-meme-gif-17950413

[lament owl]

He's serenities in case you were curious

[fierce star]

Thanks I hate it

[buoyant summit]

🐮I am truly inhabiting my role as an ambitious petty bastard of a Moonshadow by wanting to figure out if Eye and Seven sold arms to Heaven mostly so I might conspire to have all the other Deathlords kill him and give our Court some prime pickings due to our proximity to those holdings

[buoyant summit]

I just realized my Abyssal is on some real deep 'loyal samurai' shit

[spiral cosmos]

abyssal samurai is valid i think

i have always been partial to some of the vibes in sekiro

[coral wraith]

@spiral cosmos apologies for the ping, would you happen to know what the complete text for Lightning Spider's Control effect reads? https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1381681841270034542/1498877599441621012/image.png?ex=69f2c20b&is=69f1708b&hm=166f9520f802167f0fbe95fef2d97ccad26bf696621c6be8e5a656326e4afd55&

It cuts off at the end :(

[spiral cosmos]

(essence) bonus dice

[coral wraith]

Beautiful, thank you muchly

[spiral cosmos]

np

lightning spode is a favorite of mine tbh

[marsh garden]

it's so cool

it and fulminant discarnation

[buoyant summit]

It's a funny thing cuz I did not intend this to happen

I intended 'what if Cynthia Erivo played Sith Julie d'Aubigny'

[spiral cosmos]

characters have a way of changing on us

such as if whacked with a spell with a cool name

Oh, no, I've been fulminously discarnated

[buoyant summit]

lol

[coral wraith]

lightning spode is awesome

[marsh garden]

just leaving this here for later

[spiral cosmos]

women are always becoming unstable electric god-forms

[coral wraith]

thinking about an incomparable body arsenal sorcerous martial art...

[spiral cosmos]

hell yeah

[coral wraith]

it'd probably be Short and Weird

like a baby SMA

since it has to start at E3

[wise ocean]

imagine solar circle sMA

so, we figured out how to do some citrine poxes shit with total annihilation

[coral wraith]

lmao

[spiral cosmos]

i imagine it would start with modifying and amping the sub-spell effects

tho it doesn't have to

[prisma sun]

This is straight up Amber Beast

[coral wraith]

I think it'd make sense, yeah

Since it's very expensive sm wise, I think incorporating a discount somehow would be cool

like, you can activate the form without the spell - it does nothing without IBA active but you can reflexively shape sorcery the spell when you do, and you gain 10sm for the spell per 1ahl you spend

[marsh garden]

i wouldn't key it off the cast

unlike flying guillotine (and more like ISOB), the second circle buff spells have long durations

[spiral cosmos]

don't think the form should happen without the spell, but the form costing very little to maybe conditionally nothing after the spell goes off is fine

[marsh garden]

so you're not really combat-casting them

[coral wraith]

thats fair

[marsh garden]

so i'd give the reflexive enter like

something that keys off of doing something in the spell

that's what i'm poking at rn with a fulminant discarnation sMA

probably won't be good but i'm compelled

[wise ocean]

reflexive enter being reducing an attack to min damage would be cool

[marsh garden]

that sounds pretty slick yeah

[prisma sun]

How WOULD you sMa Death Laser

[marsh garden]

i wouldn't, i don't think most spells are great targets for sMAs

[prisma sun]

Well yeah no sane person should

I'm speaking hypotheticals

[marsh garden]

bc it's basically the same thing as a brilliant raptor or flying guillotine

but drastically stronger

(as befits its Circle, ofc)

so you'd set it up like those but it would just be for something way meatier

alternatively, you set it up like a Charcoal March or Albicant Sepulchur

a philosophical martial art whose focus is on acts of annihilation through some lens or another

[wise ocean]

I think albicant death laser has some sauce, yeah

get some threaten tech in there, have lasers for parrying or clashing

[prisma sun]

Sids SHOULD be able to make new SMAs right?

[marsh garden]

they can, yep

it ain't gonna be a trivial feat, but there isn't an Ontologically Fixed number of SMAs that people just discovered

sids, and only sids, can make that shit

which is what makes the Bishop making and then teaching (two things that should be categorically impossible for everyone on the planet not bolstered by the specific powers of a Sidereal Exaltation) Albicant Sepulchur of Extinction so fucked

not even other Sid ghosts can do that shit

your sid making a big cool SMA is probably gonna be the highest point of your possibly millennia-long career

[prisma sun]

Actually question

do Sids have any ability to move more than 1 rangeband a turn

[tulip folio]

I'm pondering that Water Sphere as the basis for a martial art with a defensive bent.

The form lets you parry with the water sphere.

Water Sphere Sorcerous Martial Art

[tulip folio]

Impervious Water Stance
Cost: 10m; Mins: Martial Arts 1, Essence 1
Type: Simple
Keywords: Decisive-only, Form
Duration: One scene
Prerequisites: Impervious Sphere of Water
Water Streams lash like the tentacles of a great octopus, striking her foes and intercepting blows.

The stylist gains the following benefits:

-She can maintain water tentacles from the Impervious Sphere of Water as artifact fighting chains or whips (Decided when she activates this form) that can reach out to short range as artifact Fighting Chains. Her attacks use (Intelligence + [Martial Arts or Occult]) and she Parries with Intelligence instead of Dexterity. She can still only Grapple characters at close range.
-Crippling effects that target her limbs and the like don’t apply to the tentacles and she cannot be disarmed of them.
-She reduces the difficulty and cost of gambits performed with the tentacles by one Difficulty and Initiative.
-If she does not have Impervious Sphere of Water as a Control Spell, it does not end if she moves. Instead it is suppressed until she spends her entire turn without moving, then returns.

Special activation rules: When the stylist successfully casts Impervious Sphere of Water, she may reflexively enter this Form.

Very similar Base Charm to Flying Guillotine but the later ones will play more into the 'I'm a water octopus, I'll drag you about' bit.

The big limitation on this style: Unless its you're control spell, you can't actually move about while keeping up the sphere.

But the stance makes that a bit more gentle.

By making it 'spell is suppressed when you're moving about/comes back if you stand still for a bit'

Instead of 'spell instantly ends if you move'

[velvet raft]

Very, very nice for Sail infernals tho

Since they have a bunch of stuff that works specifically when fully submerged

[tulip folio]

...that's a good point. Even without any form stuff, it's a very good spell for Sail Infernals

Tidal Renewal Discipline is a good pick up if you know Impervious Water (Or Impervious Water if you know Tidal Renewal)

'I double healing speed and non-combat mote regen while underwater'

'Brb guys, need to deal in the Healing Sphere'

[marsh garden]

okay, think i actually have something compelling as a start for this one

need to do a fluff write-up, but whatever

this is the idea

Seven-Day Deluge Style

Seven-Day Deluge Weapons: This style’s Charms can exclusively be used while Fulminant Discarnation (Alchemicals, p. XX) is active, and its offensive Charms can exclusively use its projected lightning. Stylists can choose to count the lightning as either darts or short spears for compatibility with other martial arts, but not both at once. It can’t be practiced unarmed.

Armor: Seven-Day Deluge style is incompatible with armor.

Complementary Abilities: Occult is necessary to cast and fight with Fulminant Discarnation. Several of its Charms expect or allow the stylist to introduce facts, making Lore key to the style.

Special: Attribute-based Exalts such as the Alchemical and Lunar Exalted can enhance this style's lightning attacks with Dexterity Charms, and with Strength Charms if made from close range. This doesn't let a character combine native Charms with Seven-Day Deluge Charms if she otherwise couldn't.

Seven-Day Deluge Form
Cost: 10m (+3m or 3sm); Mins: Martial Arts 1, Essence 3
Type: Simple
Keywords: Form
Duration: One scene
Prerequisites: Fulminant Discarnation
A seven-pointed crown of crackling lightning manifests above the stylist's head, invoking the first oracular thesis of Zeten Mura.
The stylist gains the following benefits:

• She suffers no penalties for flurrying influence rolls or rolls to introduce facts with other actions, including attack rolls.
• When she enters this Form, she gains a Lore background in a topic related to divination, electricity, machinery, or storms. When she makes a roll to introduce or challenge a fact, she can pay three motes or three sorcerous motes to gain a Specialty in the same topic for that roll.
• When she makes a lightning attack roll or a roll to introduce a fact, she gathers sorcerous motes equal to her 10s on the roll.
• She can spend sorcerous motes as if they were Peripheral motes to pay for the costs of Fulminant Discarnation's powers.

Special Activation Rules: When the stylist's unexpected attack, influence roll, or usage of the environment exploits a fact she introduced this session, she may reflexively enter this Form.

we know nothing about zeten mura except that they were considered a prophet, so

time to hook into that

[velvet raft]

AIUI the Special bit is unnecessary

[marsh garden]

?

i thought it specifically needed to have a carve-out there for attributes vs abilities

[velvet raft]

Charm compatibility for attribute exalts already works like that, iirc

[prisma sun]

Aweewee

[velvet raft]

It's addressed in Lunars when talking about how strength charms are usable on Dex attacks

And vice versa

[marsh garden]

ahh, the wording there is confusing and i thought it meant you can only enhance one if it's never rolled with that

thanks though

will eat it, wordiness reduction

will still need the STR carve-out because of the "you can't use strength charms on weapons that don't add strength" bit

[velvet raft]

Ah, true

[prisma sun]

It does feel pointless to give Lunars a carve out when they explicitly cant use the artifact if nothing else

[marsh garden]

artifact?

[velvet raft]

It's a spell

[prisma sun]

Spell

[marsh garden]

this is a celestial circle spell

[prisma sun]

Sleepy apologies

[marsh garden]

and alchs have the same rule

[prisma sun]

Is this not the same charm that lets alchemicals turn into lightning

[velvet raft]

Yeah, Lunars can use that

[prisma sun]

Its a spell not a charm?

[marsh garden]

no, it's a sorcerous martial art for a spell that lets you turn into lightning, which a lunar can theoretically use

[velvet raft]

Yep

[prisma sun]

Oh oki

[velvet raft]

There's also some alch strength charms that let you punch people with electricity fists

[marsh garden]

it's an autochthon-side spell, so it's highly unlikely that a non-alch will use it

but some things can slip through :)

[prisma sun]

My only problem with it then is I dont get the free flurry

Are you doing much diplomacy as a lightning beast

[marsh garden]

like the magic words of a prophet who literally turned into lightning and sublimated into autobot

uhhh, you certainly can

the spell is pretty heavily defensive, actually

[velvet raft]

I think it's gonna depend on the rest of the style

[marsh garden]

up here

[velvet raft]

Since apparently this is a thinky brains style

[marsh garden]

you can still talk, its benefits are mostly escape, damage reduction, and punishing hits

[prisma sun]

Ah finally

Grinning Mask shall be useful in a fight....

[velvet raft]

I'm really curious to see where this goes, topple

[marsh garden]

glad to hear it!

[velvet raft]

Introduce fact as a core combat schtick raises the eyebrows

In a good way

[marsh garden]

i was struggling with a reflexive condition but was reminded of Raksi's book

which calls out that she gets juiced on spells when she exploits facts

and literally all we know about this person is that they're an saintly prophet of some sort and that Autochthon hoovered them up

the one Charm i currently have mostly concrete is an attack that knowledge-blasts people

making you commit to not killing your victim because you need to Teach Them The Error Of Their Ways...so you get a big undodgeable lightning bolt that can't kill and lets the victim immediately xp debt train mental juice or martial arts after the fight

gotta figure out something interesting for the rest, though

[marsh garden]

hmm

Fulminant Prophet's Revalation
Cost: 12m, 2wp; Mins: Martial Arts 3, Essence 3
Type: Simple
Keywords: Shaping (Terrain)
Duration: Instant
Prerequisites: Seven-Day Deluge Form
The stylist tears free an impossible veil to reveal a secret ruin of the Great Maker, detailed in the third oracular thesis of Zeten Mura.
The stylist introduces a fact against Difficulty 5 to establish a structure, passage, or machine built by Autochthon, declaring that it was merely invisible to those blinded by their preconceptions of the world. In Autochthonia, it may be an abandoned prototype or a hidden function of his world-body, while in Creation it might be a workshop abandoned by him in his exodus. Features introduced this way can override existing geography or buildings, revealing that people unknowingly built around the Great Maker's construct, but can't override magically significant locations such as a demesne, an Exalt's lair, or a sorcerer's place of power. Structures revealed this way can span up to (stylist's Essence, maximum 5) range bands.

is this too wacky?

[velvet raft]

I'm unsure

It is pretty funny

[bleak hazel]

yeah, it feels a bit silly in Creation

in Autocthonia sure, Summon Escape Passage

[tulip folio]

My concern is that this feels like a normal usage of introduce fact.

Like not an easy one

But 'Oh yeah, there's a Thing Here' is just normal lore stuff

A person with a lore background in like 'Civil Engineering' can already go 'I've studied this palace's blueprints and there's a secret passage in this wall'

[velvet raft]

What I'm guessing about the intended direction is that this is building towards "use the construct or structure to do combat stuff"

But Iki may be right that this itself is kinda unnecessary

Also, whatever it is, it should probably be Supplemental

Not Simple

So that it can be flurried as per the form's schtick

[marsh garden]

ah yeah, it was meant to be supplemental, i just copy-paste from a Simple template

but uhh, one moment, engaging in chicanery

[velvet raft]

I think if this is the intent you might want to explicitly let it do combat stuff rather than beat around the bush and have that three charms deep

[tulip folio]

There's a sid charm for a similar sorta 'introduce a fact mid-combat'

And notably it gives a solid init shift when you make use of it

[marsh garden]

oh that's a good one to base it off of, thanks

the intent was to solve the fact that FD relies on metal surfaces for its mobility, which another Charm in the style will be hooking into, but make it more than literally just

"make it easier to introduce fact that this Flat Plain/Concrete City has a secret autobot lab"

so i didn't want it to be pure combat

and i'll have to clarify my intent in the charm

[bleak hazel]

a secret autobot lab feels like kind of a big deal to me

[marsh garden]

which is intended to be "actually, there's An Entire Fucking Building here that's just been invisible" as a deeply magical effect

[bleak hazel]

there's every possibility that that's got more cool loot in it than all the places you've been scrapping in up to that point in your campaign, although I suppose a lot of them could literally be warehouses full of dross

[marsh garden]

an entire Elden Ring mirage rise, where you manifest shit that wasn't there with the guise of bloodborne insight

that's super fair, yeah, i wasn't thinking that it had to be a stocked lab with working stuff in it, but in Creation that's still a crazy minimum value

[bleak hazel]

if you want to go for that theme and make it mostly about throwing down metal everywhere, you could scrap the sudden autocthonian research lab idea and make it "I reveal the secret mechanisms behind the world", suddenly pipes and conduits and girders start growing outwards into a maze

hell, CPOC does that shit as flavour text, just in a less mechanical way

[marsh garden]

oh shit, so it does

guess i'll be looting sids for parts

[bleak hazel]

well there's no mechanics for that one

and the style is somewhat different

[marsh garden]

do you remember what that introduce a fact charm is?

er, iki

[tulip folio]

It's a Battles charm iirc?

[marsh garden]

sick, thanks, will nose around

Battlefield Genius Style, the e1 any-battles?

or is there a splashier one?

[tulip folio]

iiirc, yeah

[marsh garden]

had a nap, woke up, think i unfucked the charm a bit, and now i have an unrelated question

do we know what weapons Light-Sharpening Blade Style will be using?

i assume swords by the name, but do we know if it's specifically a beamklave style or are we just guessing atm?

[velvet raft]

Light-Sharpening Blade Style?

That sounds cool

[marsh garden]

ah, yeah

it's the martial art we know we're getting in the alch companion

along with Collapsing Point of Judgment Style

which is a colossus style that uses (light?) implosion bows

and i believe also a warstrider style

i don't think we know nearly as much about Light-Sharpening Blade, though

[velvet raft]

Mortalgame ST informed me I was gonna be a Sid ;_;

Was gonna be Journeys

[prisma sun]

The best one........

[dense verge]

you got arcane fate'd

[velvet raft]

;-;

Honestly pretty miserable about it

[velvet raft]

Clearly I should quit this job right now for my true passion

[tulip folio]

No, no. Having a job to do when you'd rather be chasing your passion is the authentic Sid experience.

[velvet raft]

Fuck, you’re right

I was gonna have a grouchy bronze faction mentor and everything

[dense verge]

if your schedule ever clears for the game you can act like you were there the whole time

[velvet raft]

Can someone do me a solid and post the text of Bridling the Wild Mortal from Sid ride?

[prisma sun]

https://i.imgur.com/EW1CtEI.png

[velvet raft]

Danke

[spiral cosmos]

ponyplay technology

[tulip folio]

Mercury is into that, Venus is all about very unhealthy power dynamics and maid outfits...I don't know what the others are into but I'm sure they've got a charm for it too.

[velvet raft]

I mostly needed a reminder of what exactly the anti-arcane fate tech in question does

[spiral cosmos]

technically i think astrology interruption method can pop arcane fate too

thank you paoc toolkit

[tulip folio]

...one of these days I should mess with players by having an NPC they need to deal with have bad previous experiances with Sids.

'I'm in the know enough to understand who sids are, so I remember it was a Sid who fucked me over but since I can't remember who...it might have been you'

Make the Arcane Fate actually add some problems outside of the usual 'I'm sad that my loved ones forget me'

[spiral cosmos]

Having a bad experience with Sidereals is, like, probably pretty normal for people who do manage to remember them

[tulip folio]

'I refused to accept the shoddy paperwork a sid gave me and she hit me with the Nobody Loves You curse'

[spiral cosmos]

thats right

and she was right to. you made her have to re-file!

[coral wraith]

smiling lady status: shunned

[tulip folio]

Shun the Smiling Lady is eternally my favorite 'I'm just being an asshole' charm.

It's rarely tactically important but you just ruin a guy's life because he annoyed you and that appeals to my worst instincts

Cruel Words of Praise
Cost: 5m; Mins: Appearance 3, Essence 1
Type: Simple
Keywords: Mute, Shaping(Fate)
Duration: Indefinite
Prerequisite Charms: Razor Tongued Socialite Invocation
Twisting the attention of the world around her finger, she direct its focus towards friends of foes. She reveals the beauty within the soul of even the most ugly forms and the imperfections on divine visages.

The Wanderer recontextualizes the looks of a character within medium range, rolling (Appearance + Presence, Linguistics or Occult) against his Resolve if he’s unwilling. An affected character gains or loses Hideous, as chosen by the Wanderer. This does not actually change a person's looks, simply allowing his best or worst qualities to shine through.

The Wanderer’s target may break free of this curse by accomplishing a legendary social goal (Exalted, p. 134) that reinforced his identity to all who see her.

Keys:

Inner Beauty Revealed(Essence 2): A character affected by this charm treats their Appearance as one higher or lower, as chosen by the wanderer when the charm is used. This does not stack with other sources of appearance increase.

Butterfly Cocoon Transformation(Essence 2, +1wp): For a one willpower surcharge, the recontextualization is so complete that recognizing an affected character as their original self by sight, scent, or voice is impossible without magic, and even then requires a (Perception + Awareness) roll at difficulty (Wanderers Appearance + Essence). This can’t disguise him as another individual.

Playing about with a 'be a real asshole' trick for the Wanderers in a similar area but not 100% sure on it.

[marsh garden]

okay, had some time and ideas for the sorcerous martial art i've been kicking around, and would love some opinions on the charms i've got so far, once i finish up the wording here

[marsh garden]

actually shit this is gonna be way too long

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FsSD_FQgYcaDjOG3Xo-SXe247sNbiFBQRO3draec0dI/edit

doc required, way too much text to just put into the channel raw

@velvet raft i don't imagine anyone else will be super enthused, but ik you said you were interested

only have four (incl. form) of seven planned charms, but i have run out of ideas for now and need to simmer more

[bleak hazel]

Thunderhead Revelation should probably specify what that stuff does, in the same way that Crook of Runel goes "boom difficult terrain" and then says that you can make specific things out of it with future charms but not entomb someone in two range bands of solid metal cube

[prisma sun]

I would get rid of the "entirely verbal action" bit, as that's fairly vague

[bleak hazel]

Mentor doesn't have a use, base, so that's kind of odd, and spawning artifacts out of nowhere requires significant Solar-level craft investment in every other case, so I'd probably cut the workshop functionality

I don't like anything about Flashing Epiphany Darts, even though you have to jump through a lot of hoops you should probably not be able to press a button to zap new definings of your choice into people without significant work or resistance clauses, and TN manipulation outside Sids or explicit fate manipulation is wonky and stacks with other splat effects in strange ways sometimes

an E5 sid charm puts a Defining on someone with psyche + with a whole pile of complications, Crane E4 martial arts can do that only by socialling the target and then incapacitating them

[prisma sun]

Yeah that all does seem like a lot, especially for an MA

[marsh garden]

hough

rough to hear, but understandable

back to the drawing board

is that overall distaste about the fundamental conceit of the Charm or just the payoff?

to wit: full scrap or just reward scrap?

[prisma sun]

It feels like a capstone for a much more powerful thing

to me

[bleak hazel]

"stack conditions to do a big withering" is fine, not a huge fan of the rewards

[marsh garden]

oh yeah i mean the specific conditions, are they too gimmicky/too many for your taste

but yes i see that joy is not sparked and will need to return to the rat cave

[fierce star]

because I've been playing slay the spire 2 too much these days:

Ironclad: Azimuth Infernal
Silent: Night Solar
Regent: ... Getimian?
Necrobinder: Daybreak Abyssal
Defect: Jade Alchemical

[bleak hazel]

unlimited star-themed cosmic power strikes me as a Siddie

Gets are not star boys

trappings of the relevant constellations would suggest Battles

although "courtiers" is under Serenities

[fierce star]

hoenstly yeah

...s hit, he's even a throne shadow stylist with his minions buidl

I was thinking of him as an outside context problem for the setting as established but yeah siddie works

[spiral cosmos]

write BKoL 3e homebrew
finish lore intro first take
stare at it for a second
mfw some asshole could describe it as the Jax TADC sma

i delete the file and begin anew....

[prisma sun]

big dylan sma...

[velvet raft]

Sounds good to me, bring it back >_>

[velvet raft]

@limpid badge I was trying to think of kung fu mind control men who were in line with Border of Kaleidoscopic Logic style and oh god it’s Mbadi isn’t it

He’s the BoKL guy

@spiral cosmos I dunno if you know Alita but this revelation is your fault

[spiral cosmos]

I do not unfortunately

[velvet raft]

;_;

[spiral cosmos]

Battle Angel Alita right

I've read a little bit, at least

[limpid badge]

He’s the villain of the second series, Last Order, a self-made ubermensch who thinks himself master of the solar systems destiny on the basis of him sacrificing everything but his cold integrity to stop a gray goo event from spreading. Uses meditation techniques to synchronize his brainwaves with the uploaded consciousnesses of genius he keeps in brain chips in his head

Master-behind-the-scenes of the Lunar Habitats/Not-UN playing peacemaker between Venus and Jupiter

He’s good fuel for Solars most i find

[spiral cosmos]

damn that's crazy

brainwave synchronization...

[velvet raft]

He notably has nanotech/hacking enabled body-control powers, which is part of what I was thinking about re: BoKL

[marsh garden]

hough. why is this an e3 charm

[tulip folio]

...why go to 15, why not just soak it?

Like there are plenty of charms that are 'if uncountable, perfectly defend'

[marsh garden]

all of them at e2

none of which cost willpower

all of which work on non-Hazard uncountable

lunars even have two! they're both in dex.

whereas solaroids and sids have Resistance options

[bleak hazel]

some of the Sid and Solaroid ones do cost willpower but yeah

Lunar psuedoperfects are a mixed bag

[marsh garden]

oh, do they? i was just thinking of The Center Must Hold and Duck Fate for sids

i did forget about the solar/abyssal dodge one, which does cost wp

solar/abyssal resistance, while double the mote cost of the center must hold, also doesn't cost wp

[bleak hazel]

Duck Fate is an odd one in all respects

Serenity In Blood needs you to go up to the 1/scene 1wp repurchase to handle uncountable

[marsh garden]

(Vault of Undying Triumphs & Wounds Mean Nothing for abyssals)

oh huh

solaroid melee as well

okay i guess it's just the resistance ones that don't?

weird

[bleak hazel]

Duck Fate also doesn't say it can dodge uncountable, you have to get into the fancy stunting clause or use your [Evasion] substitution on a pre-occurring roll to resist the thing

[marsh garden]

at least Serenity In Blood isn't 1/scene like the lunar foo unfooables are 😭

[bleak hazel]

it's a very strange charm

oh, Serenity in Blood is very good

but if you specifically want to tank a whole bunch of uncountables/uncountable equivalents (hi Ligier) you want Sid Resistance

[marsh garden]

yeah

looking at ligier was why i just went back and noticed all of these

and went

"wow, these are more expensive than the sid versions, worse than the sid versions, and 1/scene unlike the sid versions"

and the sid versions are more expensive than the abyssal versions

[bleak hazel]

curse of linear time

if you want easy comparison here you want Lunars vs Alchs, actually

since they're both attribute exalts

[marsh garden]

oh, apparently att exalts are just told to kill themselves

[bleak hazel]

Sid ones being pricier than Abyssal ones is working as intended, solaroid power premium

Impenetrable Repulsor Field is pretty solid to be fair, not many people are loading up every punch with a cover breaker

[marsh garden]

yep, att exalts are just Ontologically Inferior at good defense

i'd prefer not being 1/scene honestly

[bleak hazel]

Transitory Invulnerability has the extremely useful property of being surprise hardness

fuck you reset to base

[marsh garden]

oh wait, Transitory Invulnerability Engine is just 1/scene on hardness

nevermind that one's good

it also protects against everything physical so i'm cool with it

[bleak hazel]

you also have health gates, so you can afford to get hit a bit more as a robit

[tulip folio]

Also notably: The reset + ongoing naturel of impenitrable means they don't have to pay twice in the same scene for dealing with uncountable for alchs.

[bleak hazel]

health gating + disposable arms, at that

[marsh garden]

free arms...

[tulip folio]

'Uncountable damage every single turn? Eh, I'll pay once and call it good'

[marsh garden]

yeah, but it also costs wp to block unblockable and is 1/scene

whereas the sid and solaroid versions are...neither of those

[tulip folio]

Transitory imo puts a lot of value on that 'if she use it together with a counterattack', letting you pay the same 'reset to base init' twice.

[marsh garden]

in fairness, it's a pretty damn good trick

[bleak hazel]

sid melee one is

[tulip folio]

But yeah, Solaroids do have the edge there.

Being solaroids.

[bleak hazel]

sid resistance is again, a strange one because it's fucking incredible for uncountable damage, which I have literally never seen happen in a game

but as a base damage reduction it's merely nice

[marsh garden]

nah

5m, no 1/scene

unless there's another

[bleak hazel]

1/scene on the uncountable form, and a WP cost

[marsh garden]

yeah i was talking about the block unblockable part

[bleak hazel]

but yeah, as a base foo unfooable it's second only to stuff like Heavenly Guardian

[marsh garden]

it's also stronger than the solaroid version

[tulip folio]

(I must admit, I do have a small bit of annoyance that the SWLIHN 'I am perfect logic' beats out the Alch 'I am perfect logic' charms when for Alchs perfect logic is a much bigger part of their theming, while for Infernals it's a subset of a single primordial)

[marsh garden]

since it also adds +1TN

[bleak hazel]

yeah because the solar version is heavenly guardian defence

also known as "it is literally illegal to decisive me"

[marsh garden]

that's fair, i pretend not to see that one

solar/abyssal melee sparks no joy

[bleak hazel]

nice unblockable decisive idiot, now watch as I turn all your decisive damage into withering damage at a rate of 1i per sux

Solar Melee I have some respect for because it is really good at being a swording suite and it has counters

[marsh garden]

i don't, it has the word solar in it

[bleak hazel]

luckily you can go respect Abyssal melee instead because it's the same thing with the most bullshit charm taken out

(Divine Executioner's Stance)

[marsh garden]

i just don't really enjoy any of its charms except the unique ones

namely Soul-Cleaving Wound

because it's funny

[bleak hazel]

it is definitely the white bread tree aside from the abyssal techniques

but something has to be the white bread tree

[marsh garden]

oh wait, is the ranged disarm in solar melee?

i don't actually know

solar melee is full of obnoxious wordy Charms that make my eyes glaze over

[bleak hazel]

I don't remember it but there are like 50 charms there so I could easily have missed something to that effect

[marsh garden]

ah yeah

i just searched wits + melee

[bleak hazel]

oh that's a stock effect, yeah

[marsh garden]

wait

no that says no stealing

[bleak hazel]

Sids have a sideways version in Craft

[marsh garden]

okay yeah solars don't have that one

[tulip folio]

The Sid one also can be used to steal, if you've gotten your hands on another guy's sword at some point.

[marsh garden]

yoinking is just funny

[bleak hazel]

oh that's very cute

the Sid one can be used to steal people's swords but only if you've previously gotten to examine it at a party or beaten them up and looked at it or something

which means that mode is mostly for flexing

[marsh garden]

it's also absolute, which is pretty strong

[bleak hazel]

"you know you can't beat me, even your sword kneels before me"
enemy scabbard splits down the middle and their sword rolls over to your feet

(somehow, despite it being 30lb of jade)

[marsh garden]

oh, that wouldn't work on an artifact

light enough to hold in her hand i think

oh nevermind, hands plural

[bleak hazel]

you can lift unattuned artifact weapons in your hands, it's just heavy enough to be strength training

and you can wear unattuned artifact armour, it just sucks

[marsh garden]

okay yeah so you just ban people from using artifacts you've touched

pretty good

[bleak hazel]

you do have to touch them for a significant length of time, you can't just tap someone's sword and go "aha fuck you"

but it is probably the coolest variant of Summon Sword

[tulip folio]

Does give you a very funny 'Sneaking about before a duel' trick

'Solar melee will beat my ass. Luckily he's got 1 dot in brawl and no charms'

[bleak hazel]

OK but if you get caught lovingly fondling someone's sword in a darkened room the day before the duel people are going to get strange ideas about what your purpose was

[marsh garden]

hmm

[marsh garden]

i wonder if you could use this to override a disarm gambit explicitly made with another ability

[bleak hazel]

Summoning the Loyal Steel and its associates are also "nope, I refuse to be disarmed" tech

since unless they specifically have disarm charms that leave them in control of the weapon you can just pay a token amount to recall it like a Jedi

[marsh garden]

similarly funny is using reflexive disarms and then an elsewhere charm

do sids have Elsewhere or just red to a wedding?

[bleak hazel]

no elsewhere, one of their funky thematic limits

Red To A Wedding, Destiny-Knitting Entanglement and an annoyingly pricy charm in Awareness that lets you go "actually I was wearing armour all along" but no straight up "pay 1m to shove sword in hammerspace" powers

[marsh garden]

gotcha

[tulip folio]

Throws sand

ARCANE FATE!

[bleak hazel]

this isn't bad but I'm Holistic Arsenal Man, I can ready weapons for free

so it mostly lets you reveal you were secretly wearing full jade plate armour the entire time

which is some real Looney Tunes stuff

[marsh garden]

huh

deebs' return-from-elsewhere charm is-

oh

i see it now

damn, still simple

i was hoping they could disarm and then shove someone else's gear Elsewhere, but looks like that's mostly for solaroids

[bleak hazel]

one of the irksome limits on terrestrials is that they only get instant-mundane-weapon, not instant-artifact-weapon unless they're using the elemental storage charm on their existing artifacts

but they're deebs so they have considerably less trouble going most places outside polite society in full battle rattle

whereas if some strange guy is running around in a half a ton of gold or silver metal in most places on the map people are going to take notice

[marsh garden]

unrelated, but it reminds me

their materials are i think the thing i appreciate most about starmetal and soulsteel

because they're iron and...not even steel, but a steelmaking process, you can mix em with jade(steel) or each other v easily

narratively speaking

i'm sure it's 100000x harder in actuality

but it lets you do funky shit

[bleak hazel]

the art depiction of starmetal is sometimes a bit funky because it is very rainbow

[tulip folio]

Which is funny as that's kinda also the description of adamant, being associated with Aurora.

[bleak hazel]

compare the gear of this poor lady with Black Ice Shadow, who is still iridescent but more obviously steel

I love BIS's insane drow ninja outfit, literally only he could pull that off

[tulip folio]

I would fully believe those to be Ori and Moonsilver if you told me. XD

[marsh garden]

yeah, considering starmetal is hammered in as being "subtle" i would

assume it's probably not supposed to be as beautifully vivid as it is in that art

[tulip folio]

The fucking giant shoulders are a work of art.

[bleak hazel]

I like the colour that Black Ice Shadow's gear is

[tulip folio]

He's one step away from introducing himself as Shadow the Edgehog and showing people his iconic gun.

[bleak hazel]

although I would perhaps distribute a little bit of armour towards any of the vital organs

equal opportunity chainmail bikini

[marsh garden]

Black Ice Shadow would go crazy for a sideways glock-19

[tulip folio]

Also back to tinkering with artifacts.

[bleak hazel]

my current sid is wearing moonsilver robes and carrying starmetal weapons so I have had to apply some fudge to stop the colours clashing

[marsh garden]

hm, okay, fair enough

"flashes with the five maidens' colors when it catches the light"

[tulip folio]

'It looks like steel except when I do a cool stunt'

[bleak hazel]

on the upside if you wander around in cloth of silver and regularly butcher your enemies' assistants by turning into a bird, landing next to them, cutting them in half and then transforming again to fly off, people tend to assume you're not a Siddie

[tulip folio]

Also: I think Starmetal is the only magical material that is lighter than normal metal.

[marsh garden]

and yet starmetal artifacts still weigh one fucktillion pounds...

they just put lead in it

you don't need to, it's just tradition to make your artifact way too heavy

[tulip folio]

I had fun giving this artifact Silly Hearthstone Slots to fit the 'it's about the 5 elements' theme.

[marsh garden]

so anyone doing starmetal weapons just makes it 40lb of lead

[bleak hazel]

I think there's some thematic space for a Journeys-themed walking stick with a core of molten quicksilver, just for the pun and the extra weight

clonk

[tulip folio]

Still need to work out an E4 for the artifact but mostly sorted.

[bleak hazel]

give the quicksilver staff some evos about healing and preventing the march of time, because emperors cannot stop shotgunning mercury to try and become immortal

I have so many artifacts to write up

I'll do Crimson's needle first but I have no idea whether to go for the nice simple 3-dot version or the maximalist 4-5 dot

[tulip folio]

Creation-Shaping Chaos
Cost: —; Mins: Essence 1
Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Primordial Elemental Energy, Hell-Binder Mastery
The shimmering light of the Arc-En-Ciel has encompassed all of creation’s elements and they cannot resist its call.

The Wielder treats Unexalted Elementals as demons for purposes of her Infernal Charms that affect demons if this is advantageous for her. Elementals with Essence 1-3 count as First Circle Demons for such effects.

If she has Inner Devils Unchained, she may instead transform the target into an Elemental of Essence 1-3 instead of a First Circle Demon with that charm, gaining one Quintessence when doing so.

Does this seem interesting/fun?

[bleak hazel]

seems reasonable enough

lets Craft Infernal run around hunting elementals for power, which is very cultivator of you

[tulip folio]

I know 'Exalted Elementals' don't exist but just futureproofing if something else weird happens.

[marsh garden]

firm believer that high-ess deebs should get to go Elemental Time

[tulip folio]

2e Writers: "Water. Earth. Fire. Air. Wood. Long ago, the nations lived together in harmony. Then, everything changed when the Sidereals attacked. Only the Solar, master of all five elements, could stop them, but when the world needed him most, he vanished."

[bleak hazel]

Shajah Holok could probably do a decent Uncle Iroh impression even if Iroh is the most fire aspect to ever fire aspect

[tulip folio]

Hmm...with do you think this works as a like 'This is a quick term an artifact uses to determine if something falls into a relatively broad category'

Primeval: Primeval beings are those directly connected to the primal elements crafted by the Primordials that undergird reality. Primordial, Elementals, Dragonblooded, Infernals as well as beings that have directly assumed elemental roles (Such as a Field God or a Wyldfire Behemoth) are Primeval.

[bleak hazel]

sensible enough

although you have "Promordial" in the second sentence

which presumably classifies the existing Primordials as amateurs

[marsh garden]

i'd just make the last one a generic carve-out

so you can hit like

behemoths

and the five elemental dragons, on the one in ten billion chance you find a game that cares to address them

[bleak hazel]

they're almost rude to address

[marsh garden]

which is why i wouldn't call them out by name!

they're shy

[tulip folio]

adjusted that last bit slightly

[marsh garden]

hm

what's the easiest way to instantly doom someone with Oubliette Spike?

infernals have, of course, an in-splat method

but it's pretty expensive and has some hoops

[bleak hazel]

what's Oubliette Spike when it's at home

[coral wraith]

celestial spell from Infernals, it snares someone's soul to a spike in the ground

[bleak hazel]

oh that's very cool

[marsh garden]

huh, how'd you get the doc that nice sepia color?

but yeah it's pretty rad

and it suffocates and prevents mote regen when they're too far

so banishing someone elsewhere™ (not to be confused with Elsewhere™) kills they ass

like the infernal exodus beyond eternity

there's also the first circle necromancy

[tulip folio]

iirc, there's a charm for Alchs or Alchitects that lets you increase how hard a feat of strength/demolition is.

[marsh garden]

to just throw someone into the labyrinth

but that takes a lot of setup

[tulip folio]

So you can push the difficulty to escape up past what can reasonably be beaten

[coral wraith]

the blue light filter i use draws on the gpu directly, so it translates into my screenshots

[marsh garden]

and exodus beyond eternity only beans someone who's crashed

ahhhh

interesting

[bleak hazel]

it's reasonably easy to juggle people out to long range

harder to get them further

[marsh garden]

at e3 (the point where you have access to this spell and as such the tier people you aren't just flexing on to be an asshole are at) they can roam a minimum of a mile away

which is a bit harder

[spiral cosmos]

they were still figuring out what celestial balance should look like + lunar shapeshifting weirdness

[spiral cosmos]

just buff it

it's fine imo

i think the alchemical ones aren't as bad but that lunar one is kind of painful

admittedly alchemicals are kind of stupidly powerful in Dexterity so my feelings on that are sort of donald_glover_good.gif

[marsh garden]

alch dex is p wildin

[bleak hazel]

so many submodules, all so good

the one that always amazes me is Accelerated Response System

[spiral cosmos]

shame alchemical strength e1 is so fucking bad

[marsh garden]

oh, the casual "ignore all penalties on all actions for an entire turn" one?

[bleak hazel]

all their onslaught tech is exceptional

Rapid Barrage Configuration lets you absolutely scrunch anyone without a total onslaught negator by just never letting it refresh ever and double-stacking it constantly

[marsh garden]

it does kinda make sense to me since the raw power of their charms is making up for "has shapeshifting"

[bleak hazel]

and even if they can negate it you can apply it to enemy clash attack rolls and bulldoze them that way once you get the ability to force clashes

the robot is indeed cool

[marsh garden]

really want to play an alch

[spiral cosmos]

i killed that shit with my own two hands

[tulip folio]

;-;

[spiral cosmos]

fucking ridiculous, just casually the best martial artists in the game, and another case of Flight of Mercury breaking everything

i made it require hitting a damage threshold and paying a surcharge to trigger Overwhelming Velocity Upgrade

[marsh garden]

alas

[spiral cosmos]

because the Violet Bier death loop

was disgusting

[marsh garden]

understandable though

[bleak hazel]

yeah, that's much appreciated

[marsh garden]

Gear-Driven Reflex Automation is another crazy one

[spiral cosmos]

alchemicals will have to cope with merely having one of the best MA-compatible offense suites still

[tulip folio]

cries

😛

[spiral cosmos]

there was other tuning after the campaign but i didn't have much to do with that except begging sobbing on my knees to nerf the drone defense tech because it was insane

[marsh garden]

lmfao

i don't know the drone charms

[bleak hazel]

I vaguely recall skimming those and raising an eyebrow but that was a while ago

[tulip folio]

I know that one. the one that lets you defend other yourself

[marsh garden]

ahhhh

ligiermode

icic

[spiral cosmos]

overwhelming velocity upgrade broke things because it set off a death loop of

you tap -1, confirm hit, your next hit is -3 onslaught and -3 soak so your damage keeps scaling, you trigger 5+ damage, then you lock them into a loop where flight from mercury keeps triggering because their soak keeps dropping

and then it just keeps spiraling

admittedly the smash attack tech is also kind of ridiculous and shouldn't be on ranged attacks but whatever

[tulip folio]

Did anything get buffed with alchs or was it 'Hello Dex, I am here to hit you with hammers'? XD

[spiral cosmos]

that cat is firmly out of the bag

I think Strength got slightly buffed but it needed more imo

[marsh garden]

did Charisma get any added sauce on it, or was that mostly Boring But Functional™?

[bleak hazel]

oh yeah I forgot the drones needed you to decisive them to shut them down

oof

[spiral cosmos]

i don't remember tbh

[tulip folio]

I do know it's a case of 'Solaroid' vs 'Not a Solaroid' but man it does kinda irk me that the SWLIHN 'I have a giant logicbrain' charms beat the Alchemical 'I have a giant logicbrain' charms when it's a much more core part of the Alch themes. Not to mention the 'I have a giant logicbrain that makes me completely immune to emotion' devil body. XD

But that one is sorta 'As long as solaroids are designed to be Better Than Non-Solaroids, that was always going to happen'

[marsh garden]

that's more infernal vs everyone else

infernals also get infinity guile on devil-body

and a lot of "i am the only one allowed to make myself irrevocably insane" tech

(they do, in fact, make themselves utterly deranged)

"fuck you, you can't influence me, i'll influence myself" seems to be one of their bigger themes

not just one or two gigabrain charms

[spiral cosmos]

alchemical plugging into a soyjak brain throne

[velvet raft]

Toxic yaoi diversion …

[tulip folio]

Golden Tyrant Scales
Cost: —; Mins: Strength 3, Essence 1
Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: None
Where a hungry ghost may devour the blood and a raksha the soul, the Dragon consumes the future of entire regions while demanding you worship it for its mastery of your own destruction. Drawing on the spirit of the Dragon, she demands the world bow to the might she can leverage.

The Wanderer gains the following benefits:
• Magnates, Financiers and the Idle Rich count as having a minor tie of kinship to her.
• She gains +1 Resolve against influence from characters with Resources less than (Higher of 3 or Essence)
• Once per day she can draw upon her boundless resources to reduce a mote or sorcerous mote cost by (Essence + Resources) 
• She finds that her dots in Resources are never unable to be used. Even if she finds herself locked naked in a cell, she can still produce valid notes of credit from seemingly nothing. Given a few hours, she can always find a place she can make use of her Resources, though in more extreme locations the available good will likely be limited beyond necessities for life.

Went back to tinkering with this. Compared to the old version it narrowed what the tie applies to but it lets you just go 'Hahahah, I have money, I can pay for motes' 1/day.

[marsh garden]

...that's even stronger than VEE's mote reduction

[tulip folio]

...I don't think so? I'ts the same amount but 1/day instead of 'can spend cult to do it as many time as you have cult spends and VEE also gives you extra cult spends'

[marsh garden]

yeah, 1/day instead of 4/story

er

not VEE

Temple-Self Apotheosis

[tulip folio]

Temple Self

[marsh garden]

but yeah that charm is gigafucked and you made it better

[tulip folio]

...I...don't think I did.

Up to 6/story is a lot better than 1/day

Like temple self lets you get all 6 of those in the same scene if you want.

[marsh garden]

mm, fair, same amount of fucked

[tulip folio]

...I'm not sure I'd say it's...okay, back to the drawing board.

[marsh garden]

eh, i mean, you should obviously wait for other opinions

and the rest is neat

[prisma sun]

Being able to immediately make it 6 motes at chargen is pretty fucking cracked

[marsh garden]

that's part of what i dislike about Temple-Self yeah

[bleak hazel]

I would do sorcerous motes there, that's within budget

[tulip folio]

Sure but...an infernal can make it 36 motes at chargen in 6 mote bursts.

[marsh garden]

it's just right out the gate "fuck you infinite value"

yeah and it's broken

[bleak hazel]

actual mote costs I'd stay away from, especially since it works on charms that are not instant

[marsh garden]

(and also requires Cult 5, which is like, a setting-warping amount amount of worship)

(Ligier doesn't have Cult 5)

[prisma sun]

I don't think Infernals should be used as the standard for balance yea

[bleak hazel]

Temple-Self is one of the bits of Infernals that irks me on a mechanical level

[tulip folio]

...okay, back to the drawing board I go as I can't just do sorcerous motes.

As that would make the charm much, much worse for anyone who's not a sorcerer

[bleak hazel]

("I channel my awesome cult into stuff" totally valid narrative space, of course, just don't let someone walk around with half a dozen free indefinites and scenelongs)

[marsh garden]

i mean

you just make Terrestrial Sorcery a prereq

[tulip folio]

...that's not in Strength.

[marsh garden]

and then it's a cool flavorful sorcerer charm

s'pose not

i wasn't going to assume since it already interfaces with smotes

[prisma sun]

Well nothing about this charm particularly is Strength flavored

[tulip folio]

...

I mean...that's...Wanderer Strength's Entire Theme.

Dragons.

[marsh garden]

his splat's Strength is all social influence and Resources, yeah

it's like a charisma transplant into strength

lotta charisma-as-combat in it

[tulip folio]

I mean, like half the splats transplant some social into strength. Generally with Threaten. XD

But yeah, they transplant Scary and Bargain to Strength.

[marsh garden]

yeah, just that yours is a lot of social influence and also resolve tech

so it's more a mix than pure + threaten

def gives it a siddier feel, which i assume is part of the intent there

[tulip folio]

If the sids would stop stealing Fae charms, the Fae-themed splat would feel less sid, yes 😛

(There are multiple Sid charms that come from the 2e Raksha book. XD)

[marsh garden]

no, as in "this is something this ability Doesn't Do"

"i am doing it anyway"

into "this is something this attribute Doesn't Do"

"i am doing it anyway"

[tulip folio]

But yeah...I...dunno. I'll go back to the drawing board and work out some different 'I am very rich and that gives me metaphysical power, not just temporal power' charm.

As Resources has the issue that unlike Cult, it's not a very good merit by default. XD

[marsh garden]

it is a pretty important merit for crafting, at least

[bleak hazel]

Sids and fae are notable for getting into fights that make absolutely no goddamn sense because everyone else lenses their metaphysical power through actually punching you

so this fits

I should remember to use more Horoscope charms because the ability to dramatic edit stuff into existence with those has great vibes

I always forget they exist despite the fact they're such Sid staples

[tulip folio]

The dramatic edits are great

They're basicly a free 'introduce a fact'

'New fact: Door unlocked'

[bleak hazel]

sword-shaping Fae vs Battles sid both exploiting the fact that their areas of competence involve things other than direct combat to stunt some absolutely nonsensical stuff was a great moment in a game I once saw

world's most overdramatic whittling contest

[spiral cosmos]

dramatic edits are Good

[tulip folio]

...here's an odd pondering.

Gets are going to be Att based.

Which means their medicine charms are going to likely be in Intellignece.

But Citrine Pox requires 10 Medicine charms to unlock.

So I think they might lose out on the alt-entry for Citrine Pox even if they have 10 charms to improve medicine.

[marsh garden]

i imagine their book will have a carve-out that says they can get it with 10 int charms, and if they don't it'll probably just say "yeah you gotta clear an MA like with every other SMA"

such is the curse of Wanton Theft™

[bleak hazel]

I am sure Getimians will not be too short-changed on martial arts access, lets be real

irked as I am by their explicit pitch of stealing all the Sid good stuff

[tulip folio]

I think I might backburner that Wanderer stuff for now and work on that Fae Martial Art I was playing with. The All-Conquering Warlord one.

[marsh garden]

i imagine they will be rather different in 3e vs essence

but also like, it's hard not to steal sid bits when sids have five unique gimmicks to themselves

i hope they get some oramus & sachaverell charms

[tulip folio]

...do you think it's stepping too much on Dawn 'you can scare the unscarable' to have a capstone charm that forces a rout roll on a unit if you wipe out their magnitude even if the unit has perfect morale?

[marsh garden]

eh, probably not

[bleak hazel]

they have parked themselves right on top of like, three or four of those

[marsh garden]

it's a pretty boring power

and there are even things immune to it

or resistant

[bleak hazel]

I'm hoping they go hard on the internal alchemy stuff because I want to cultivate harder

[spiral cosmos]

that seems probable

[bleak hazel]

let me form golden core and then die trying to fight someone much stronger than me without protagonist hax

[marsh garden]

they just have SMAs and their own weird fate thing, right?

not prophecies and horoscopes or resplendent destinies

[bleak hazel]

fate manipulation, heavenly bureaucracy stuff (this time hostile), the same varieties of hax charms and Best Kung Fu status

Essence gets admittedly had a bad case of "this is just straight up hard countering particular Sidereal charms" with things like Constant Problem Tactic

avoidancent

[spiral cosmos]

getimians don't weave fate so much as corrupt and snarl it. sidereals can change what's fated, with gets it's a little more like they have to override, suborn, or break shit

[marsh garden]

i'm v excited for them

interested in the season caspects and their identity crisis chicanery

[tulip folio]

Ah, not worth a capstone? It's the old 2e capstone to the style.

The raksha performs the Dance of the World-Devouring Warlord, a sinuous kata that can be performed bare-handed or with any type of weapon. This dance tells the tale of his inevitable victory, and his story reaches out across a battlefield to instill in the hearts of his enemies the certainty of their defeat. The player of a raksha engaged in mass combat rolls (Dexterity + highest Sword Ability) against a difficulty equal to the Might of the opposing unit. Each threshold success reduces the Magnitude of the unit by 1, as affected mortals lay down their arms in hopeless surrender. If the Dance of the WorldDevouring Warlord is used against a solo unit, the player makes the same roll against the target’s Dodge MDV. If the roll succeeds, the target suffers a -5 internal penalty on all combat-related rolls for the remainder of the scene.

I'm trying to get across the vibe, though not a 1:1 matching of the mechanics.

[spiral cosmos]

i would say that the Pillars of Creation Getimian Charms are probably the best example of what the future has in store for them

[marsh garden]

it might be worth the capstone mechanically, i dunno

i just think it's absurdly boring

"yeah cool you can scare a zombie"

"can i get...literally anything lunars, sids, or infernals have going on?"

or wait i think scare unfooable is the one infernals kept

more's the pity

[bleak hazel]

the Pillars ones were pretty fun so that's a good sign

[spiral cosmos]

i am a fan of them

[marsh garden]

what are those like, if any are easy to give as examples?

[spiral cosmos]

internal alchemy, inversion

[marsh garden]

yippee

[spiral cosmos]

breaking non-physical things

[marsh garden]

i do love nonphysical smashing

i was extremely disappointed that abyssals' job description of world-murder didn't include uh

any murdering the world

just the things in it

[bleak hazel]

the ones I really did look askance at were Constant Problem Tactic and the one Players Guide one that let you point at a Direction and thanos snap it

[marsh garden]

i will be excited to see world-not-so-murder on get charms

[bleak hazel]

but Essence is big on that kind of sweeping effect with no resistance clauses anyway and Infernals got a huge shine up from their Essence charmset so I am a lot more hopeful than I was

[tulip folio]

...okay, I'll have to work out what to do with this martial art them, as the entire theme for it is 'My victory is so obvious and unavoidable that everyone goes along with it'. Hmm...

[spiral cosmos]

i kind of like the idea of constant problem tactic

at least i think i do

i haven't looked at essence in ages

[bleak hazel]

great name, I'll give it that

[marsh garden]

what does it do

[spiral cosmos]

iirc it's a no running away charm

[bleak hazel]

it's anti-avoidance, you just appear in the scene of someone you're chasing

[marsh garden]

oh shit slasher charm

i actually love that

gotta be someone that's scared of you though

lean into it being slasher chic

[spiral cosmos]

being hard to get away from and twisting people's escape magic so you can come along are both theoretically very get

like hijacking that shit

[tulip folio]

Eh, I might just go back to making that infernal I was tinkering with and try homebrew when I'm in a better headspace as I'm really getting nothing but misses right now. XD

[bleak hazel]

as an Essence charm it Just Works, so I imagine if it gets a 3e version it will be less "fuck you, escape is useless"

[marsh garden]

feel that, i was excited to do things but am now pretty thoroughly stumped after an utter rout

tbh in 3e most non-Avoidance escape is already pretty useless

[bleak hazel]

it does have another mode that is basically 3e rush but without a movement limit, that's fun

[spiral cosmos]

i think part of the pain is that there's just not many 'fuck you bye' effects in 3e?

so if anything can hijack one it's a little like, okay, wow, glad my rare button can be countered

[marsh garden]

did an off-session scene yesterday in my lunar game where we uh

[bleak hazel]

yeah, it's very carefully shaped to fuck Avoidance over specifically

[marsh garden]

watched our dino-girl completely eat shit and fail to dramatically escape a wyld hunt

[tulip folio]

There's like Avoidance and Travel Without Movement in Celestial Sorcery

[spiral cosmos]

GSoM

[tulip folio]

But even then, going 'fuck it, bye' isn't the primary use of the latter

[bleak hazel]

I will say that the flowing mode is hilarious and resembles my favourite Sapphire Veil charm so absolutely bring that back

heard you were talking shit

zoop

[marsh garden]

and it was set up to be a really good dramatic escape too

but no bird form

[spiral cosmos]

mirror flower, water moon...

[marsh garden]

so she just got mogged while trying to zoot out

[bleak hazel]

got to have that bird form

[spiral cosmos]

i tried to make that charm kind of usable in a broader way to be a fun little signature for practitioners

[marsh garden]

at least we've got an excuse to rescue her, since she's currently being tortured for info

but like

[bleak hazel]

or in the case of the Full Moon in my current party, a fox with wings attached because they refuse to not do fox things

[marsh garden]

damn, escape is impossible

[bleak hazel]

I'm so incredibly hyped for Sapphire Veil, it's been in my top two SMAs forever

[marsh garden]

just doesn't work ever if you can't Avoidance or fly upward

[tulip folio]

...do Gets reference Mirror Flower, Water Moon in their charms?

[bleak hazel]

Withdraw is generally agreed to be way too prohibitive, yeah

got collateralled by the general drive to avoid annoying kiting

[marsh garden]

it's funny, i saw that discussion and then fucking immediately experienced it secondhand

we call that hamfisted foreshadowing

and it's not like kiting even got flattened, either

you can still just do that shit

[prisma sun]

I do think when Invincible Sword Princess is a problem design space that sometimes some kiting is fine

[bleak hazel]

they did generally solve kiting

2e theoretically had a huge kiting problem but in practice actually using the continuous movement rules was such a pain that it never really came up

which isn't really an upside per se

I find it funny that Voy and I both have Charcoal March characters and we use it in exactly inverse ways

because my charcoal march stylist sees Dance of the Hungry Spider and goes "aha, they will not escape me now" and closes to melee twice as fast

whereas Drifts is in the next postcode literally throwing punches

[spiral cosmos]

none that im aware of but as an old chinese idiom it would be a cool one to reference in the future

just seemed relevant to the conversation

[prisma sun]

Into the Charcoal Spiderverse

[marsh garden]

i appreciate basically all of gets' vibes

the thought of slasher power and mirror bullshit makes me think of uhhhh

oh god what was that horror movie

Us?

[prisma sun]

dunno boss, need more to go off of

[marsh garden]

yeah Us

[bleak hazel]

it's so hard not to dip 3 charms in for DOTHS on literally every Sid

just because it is such unparalleled reflexive schmovement

[tulip folio]

Oh cool. I had a minor panic attack as I'd referenced it a few times with the Wanderer Sorcery Charms and was worrying that was another thing I'd need to rewrite. XD

[bleak hazel]

spend 30xp to solve mobility

and not get grappled

[prisma sun]

I am hoping Gets are good

[marsh garden]

it's been like six years since i watched it, but i remember really liking Us

[prisma sun]

I kinda enjoy the whole Ascian/Thanos vibe of your greatest sin being nostalgia

[tulip folio]

No, I'm pretty sure Thanos' greatest sin was the genocide.

😛

[marsh garden]

but that's more the infernal charm

and the much less powerful but relatively similar abyssal charms

[prisma sun]

I wonder if they'll end up nerfing Infernals so they won't mog the other Solaroids so hard

[marsh garden]

probably not

i know they're nerfing the charm to get more devil-body dots

[bleak hazel]

they don't seem like they have that many more wonky spots than most other manuscripts

[prisma sun]

To me they just kinda feel Superior to Solars and Abyssals

[marsh garden]

but i think devil-body + soul-pantheon + inner world + having temple-self is here to stay

[bleak hazel]

so I imagine the worst-offenders are going to get zapped

[marsh garden]

yeah they are, and it's basically entirely because of DBA

[bleak hazel]

it's sometimes hard to tell how much of it is actual power gap and how much of it is Infernal vibes being pretty hard locked on "we da best"

but DBA is pretty wild

[marsh garden]

well, soul pantheons and inner worlds are "you're just a solaroid but you have two extra gimmicks for free because fuck you"

but DBA is the egregious one

the other two are just very expansively powerful but wonkily limiting narrative permission charms and "a stronger version of the best spells in the game"