i think you should probably skip that just bc abyssal melee already has a really good and straightforward clash
#Exalted
limpid badge
yeah bloody hand is Apoc Melee
this is fair, im just thinking about what'd be appropriate to give her
marsh garden
makes sense
limpid badge
(tho, we play Apoc/Sup/Prim as Ess+1 for sanity reasons)
marsh garden
reasonable, yeah
i think the abyssal clone is called uhhh
iron lotus or something?
limpid badge
Oh, yes, part of her to-be parrysuite
marsh garden
that one's at e2 right?
limpid badge
yeah best to avoid it then hrmn
actually maybe something to force Routs could be funny
marsh garden
oh, coiled shadow strike
at e3
wtf is iron lotus then
ah! unfurling iron lotus, e1 reflexive attack when you get mogged
limpid badge
If you deal magnitude damage, reflexively intimidate a battlegroup adding (wakefulness) successes, turn extra successes on the intimidate into extra damage to the unit as they ditch and run rather than be petrified?
hrmn
marsh garden
that could be fun
i have an evo on a battle banner that lets you usurp a battle group's Tie to their commander if you murder that commander
a "you work for me now" execute
limpid badge
im also thinking about a stupid idea of `Spend Anima and Whispers to add (Whispers) to Wakefulness' but i knoooow that's probably too much but it is juicy
marsh garden
wonder if the hateful stone gaze of sauron could fit something like that in
putting whispers on shit rules yeah
limpid badge
i mean it is also a sword made of Pure Neverborn
marsh garden
i want to make more whispers artifacts...
but i don't really want to make more abyssal artifacts lmao
limpid badge
mortals who touch it are instantly slain. its a funny party trick.
we love you black blade of sorrows.
marsh garden
we love you black blade of sorrows
bleak hazel
I should probably do something for Crimson Rain's soulsteel needle that he ambushes people with
marsh garden
ooh
tulip folio
Clearly you make non-soulsteel whispers artifacts 😛
limpid badge
hiiiii iki
marsh garden
well, one is made of underworld coral, not soulsteel
tulip folio
More seriously: I am kinda tempted to do up an alchemical whispers artifact.
limpid badge
iki did i make you look at this most noodley of artifact things
tulip folio
Where the one whispering in your head is the Engine of Extinction.
limpid badge
we are working on a not-gorgon
marsh garden
but yeah, i want to do a moonsilver whispers arti
tulip folio
Rather than the traditional neverborn
marsh garden
for a skellymancer lunar
tulip folio
iki did i make you look at this most noodley of artifact things
I am intrigued! I am currently tinkering with one of my own but I'm happy to look it over!
bleak hazel
Crimson's build is annoying at E1 because fitting decent white veil in requires terrible stamina and no silken armour, so he has like soak 1
prisma sun
If you deal magnitude damage, reflexively intimidate a battlegroup adding (wakef...
I did have an idea on this
btw
limpid badge
oh do tell
prisma sun
where I think you should let the sword animate the coral statues
and turn enemies into battlegroups under your command
limpid badge
Hrmn. Alas, i don't think that works with the theme
bleak hazel
I'm just hung over enough to not want to do actual work on a Sunday so I guess I do all my artifact homebrew now
marsh garden
lol
limpid badge
bees described the blade as ||working a little like fly-paper for souls, just shears it right off and adds it to the mass of Neverborn||
so im not sure actually animating its statues is right for the Black Blade
bleak hazel
Do I start with swords of get out of jail free, robes that let you do binding vows or needle of muhahahha you are my prisoner now
limpid badge
well i do still need to sit down and build a battlesid so i might bother you tomorrow
marsh garden
on the topic, if anyone's willing to take a look at my horrible bad touch hands, they still definitely need another review
i know i'm being annoying about it, but it's the one i'm actively using rn so i want to make sure they're not dysfunctional
apologies anyway, though
bleak hazel
You may want to narrow the focus to the few evos you're currently using or about to use then, since it's kind of hard to give good advice on 16 charms at once easily
marsh garden
well, fair, although i did look at the e5, declare it way too e3 to be e5, and execute it
but the problem is that there's a lot of e1-e2 and i've v close to all of it
wise ocean
Do I start with swords of get out of jail free, robes that let you do binding vo...
needle sounds fun
marsh garden
as in i have most of the floating xp
marsh garden
the glove?
prisma sun
My artifact i was working on
marsh garden
happy to take a look, if you have any thoughts in turn i would love any help you're willing to give
pair of questions, that i don't think i asked:
a: how does the omnicompat work?
is it "these work like unarmed attacks and you can also use them with even blade/single point/etc."
and b: if yes, what MAs do you plan to take?
tulip folio
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1R_4s9TKH0xeGAGsz5yzuS7S_Ek_YBoOly0t4EDIypOQ/...
The Black Blade of Sorrows shears free the souls of those it slays, transforming their corpses instantly to crumbling statues of fossilized coral and prehistoric shellfish. They leave no ghost, no further attachment.
Does this prevent ghosts or gods from reforming? As they're not really slain, just dispersed for a while until they reform but it feels like the intent is that it's got inbuilt ghost-eating?
marsh garden
which is to say, how much of a balance issue do you expect omnicomp to be?
limpid badge
```
The Black Blade of Sorrows shears free the souls of those it slays, transfor...
kind of working off partial information from the GM about how it properly works and describing what i do know which is "mortals Stop when this thing happens to them"
which is a bad answer i understand but kind of the answer i have
tulip folio
Also:
When the Black Blade inflicts decisive damage or deals Magnitude damage to a battle group, 9s and 10s that exceed the current Wakefulness rating raise the Wakefulness a step.
...I'm not parsing that. Do you mean if it's at wakefulness 1, it needs 2 9s or 10s in the damage roll to raise a level?
tulip folio
Sorry that most of my feedback so far is just wording stuff.
limpid badge
its based on how Gorgon (the base im jacking a bunch of mechanics from) handles wakefulness which treats it as an N+1 gate for... 10s on Decisives
so i gave it 9s and 10s and an extra way (iconic banner) to wake up the sword
tulip folio
When does the eye close? End of scene?
prisma sun
and b: if yes, what MAs do you plan to take?
It works for any martial art for the most part, including styles that aren't necessarily unarmed. However I am mostly taking Unarmed styles anyway so its not a huge deal
marsh garden
that's a huge deal
limpid badge
When does the eye *close*? End of scene?
Yes! that is important. i should note that.
marsh garden
it's e1 artifact unarmed
which is otherwise broadly an e3+ thing, and mostly on expensive scenelong e4-5 capstones
things like the infernal One Hand Fury and the abyssal Void Avatar Embodiment e5 brawl capstones
tulip folio
Vague Pondering: Should the penalty from The Hunger of Sorrows be a crippling penalty? So others can interact with it?
marsh garden
and in Prismatic Arrangement of Creation Form at e4
limpid badge
Vague Pondering: Should the penalty from The Hunger of Sorrows be a crippling pe...
perhaps? its based on Stone-Sinew Offensive which just gives a Flat Penalty for some reason
tulip folio
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1R_4s9TKH0xeGAGsz5yzuS7S_Ek_YBoOly0t4EDIypOQ/...
Reminder of Dread should likely mention it's only on Successful Attacks that it drains the init.
limpid badge
nodding nodding
marsh garden
Secrets Found Along the Way...i don't know how good Read Intention pools can get vs decisive rolls (i think about the same, so acc isn't a nightmare), and you don't have any mote cost listed, but a clash that doesn't cost WP scares me
tulip folio
Overall, I can see where it's going. It feels oppressive but not like oppressive to players, more in a 'this thing fucks up your resources and ability to fight back' oppressive.
marsh garden
esp as the second Evo in the tree and presumably at e1-2
prisma sun
I havent done any costs yet
marsh garden
i'd probably make sure it has a wp cost to it
tulip folio
I would be tempted to downgrade the free withering from the openness of the eye to dice instead of automatic successes, as that's a lot of damage that would stack on top of even attacks reduced to minimum, if I'm reading it correctly.
prisma sun
My least favorite part of charm design is the math lol
marsh garden
understandable
limpid badge
I would be tempted to downgrade the free withering from the openness of the eye ...
i added a forth level of awakeness tbf and that might make it feel a little better
i hope it is hitting the "knockoff stormbringer" vibe its supposed to have
-# blood and souls! blood and souls for my lord arioch!
marsh garden
my least favorite part of creative design in general is exposing myself to the world, because the two most common results are "no bites" and "this is bad and uncreative"
but the math is a pain too
prisma sun
I will try and give the funny punch arms a read topple though I did lay down for bed already
marsh garden
nah it's fine
bleak hazel
needle sounds fun
OK, thinking aloud here:
Base gimmick autounlock: Impale the needle through the heart of someone who has just been incapacitated as a Simple. They don't die, and in fact can't die until the needle is removed because it's pinned their two souls together with soulsteel. If you incap someone with the needle you can do this reflexively.
Upgrades:
- you can wake them up briefly to interrogate them in their fucked up death trance. Upgrades eventually evolve this to a full conversation.
- you can puppet their body around so you can do "he's just had a bit too much to drink" assassinations at parties
- magical healing maneuver that removes the needle and the incap status, so you can use it to save lives in an extremely unpleasant way rather than just delaying death
marsh garden
stapling people's souls together so they're not allowed to die rules
prisma sun
I do like little artifacts tbh
marsh garden
i have a couple ideas for a set of soulsteel light armor that bans you from dying because it's just a bunch of nails you've hammered into yourself
bleak hazel
It's for doing like, SOMA style living dead stuff where you have a perpetually almost dead deeb in your basement that you interrogate for information
tulip folio
I am doing up a Diagram of my current artifact!
bleak hazel
I may have to say that you can't change the intimacies of someone who you've stabbed with this while it's active because otherwise you just keep them at -4 wound penalty until you've rewritten their whole soul
need discrete interrogation mechanics
marsh garden
right yeah anyway back to fingies: so i think the clash is probably gucci at e2 but needs a wp cost (i don't remember how expensive sid clashes are, but it's like...between 1 and 6 motes, usually, plus wp on things that aren't hyperspecific)
artifact unarmed is 🅱️usted because of compatibility reasons and sometimes native charm (that buff unarmed because they don't get to artifact it up) reasons
so i'd limit its compat to like
two different MAs at a time
which is probably still zonked but it's the fundamental goal of the artifact aiui
bleak hazel
Do any celestial but not Solaroid splats have any effects that say "ask questions, target must answer honestly" or is that just Solar Investigation being overly generous
marsh garden
Student Begins the Journey, i would just say "don't let them double dip on range bands"
just go like
coral wraith
Do any celestial but not Solaroid splats have any effects that say "ask question...
Greater Sign of Jupiter, though only vs un-Exalted characters
bleak hazel
Not an amazingly useful precedent here but it is one at least
tulip folio
Oh @limpid badge, the artifact I'm doing up has a chart of it's own too. It's not an easy chart to climb as it goes to 9 and well...you don't get a lot of it. Casting a spell that clears out the magnitude of a battlegroup is 2 points vs the 'what if I just started the battle with 2-3' of stuff like Voltspindle.
The intent is that in most battles you won't really get super high unless you're actively doing your best to skyrocket it.
marsh garden
...reflexively move one range band in any direction, including vertically. If she has an instant-duration Charm that would let her fly or jump vertically, she may activate it reflexively before the move.
something like that
i'm sure there're more elegant ways to do it
probably in an existing charm
but double dipping "go up" for kiting is spooky
prisma sun
I will probably add a caveat yeah
Though my evil dark soul wishes for more mobility....
marsh garden
Battle That Hones the Edge i can't really judge without knowing the costs, like if it's simple, reflexive, costs motes, init, wp, etc.
someone smarter prob could
marsh garden
Though my evil dark soul wishes for more mobility....
the problem there is that it just creates the very, very boring perverse incentive of
prisma sun
I knooow
marsh garden
"enemy check: do they have ranged weapons?"
no? ok i fly up and down and they can't do anything
yes? damn
and you just juggle form switching to maintain that
Shape of Others requires clarification
limpid badge
Oh <@111276758107435008>, the artifact I'm doing up has a chart of it's own too....
part of the idea of wakefulness is gating certain effects behind it, so far im keeping things lokced behind "half Open" as a way of having a very clear "phase change" for Bloody Hand- currently if she isn't actually allowed to Descisive for whatever reason she can still get to her "Phase 2" for the cost of Iconic Flaring and 1WP, which felt? okay?
marsh garden
do you make a withering and a decisive, and your ally makes a withering and decisive?
if so, ban that shit
nuh-uh
limpid badge
i was probably going to keep some very silly things behind "Sword Must Be At +4/Staring To Do this"
marsh garden
if it's one person withers the other decisives, i dunno how to price that but i'm sure it exists in like, deebs
prisma sun
do you make a withering and a decisive, and your ally makes a withering and deci...
No its one or the other
One does the withering one does a decisive
marsh garden
i know sids have "XXm, 1wp: make an attack when you clash a dude" at e1-2
prisma sun
Also yeah
tulip folio
part of the idea of wakefulness is gating certain effects behind it, so far im k...
Makes sense/sounds fun.
prisma sun
Tiger and Dragon
marsh garden
and even blade has make one when you make the other off of something at e3?
so it's in bounds but def needs wp
otherwise seems cool, i like that it's a deeb combo attack
(i think theirs is in Heirs, i'll dig for it in a bit)
marsh garden
gotcher
and i think getting each other's charms is cute too
Quest Ends i would request clarification on whether it adds wound to the attack roll or damage roll
prisma sun
Oh right
marsh garden
i think that wording means attack roll but it's vague and i mislike it
otherwise checks out, still also needs to know whether it's simple or supplemental
looks like simple
based on wording
i think Let Me Show You What I've Learned should probably come with a clause of like
you can't kill the victim and they can xp debt to buy charms from MAs you used on them
which doesn't stop you from slitting their throat after you've incapped them
but it feels like the kind of flavor that should be on the charm
otherwise...also very, very scary on an omnicomp weapon
prisma sun
Oh thats sick yeah
marsh garden
i think something else that would be neat is, like with a couple of multiattacks, giving it hoops to jump through to hit +atk
tulip folio
I totally stole a 3rd circle spell for the capstone evocation, being powered by getting High Quintessence. 'Fuck it, Casting Gigaflare'
marsh garden
and making that like, "an extra attack for each Martial Art you used Charms from (e+1 max 5-ish)"
so you're encouraged to be literally showcasing everything you know
you wanna make your doom combo flashy
prisma sun
"Gloves that Anys Syn is legally not allowed to wear"
marsh garden
and this feels like a v Anys Syn arti, yeah
prisma sun
I did kind of want to add in a knockback effect to it
Just to make it like
Aesthetically pleasing
marsh garden
like for me, you've got myriad legs on the one hand
and Rat King's Secret Art: Death of a Thousand Fangs on the other
myriad legs just Does Its Thing
which is reasonable, that's Its Thing as an MA
but Rat King's Secret Art is way cooler to me heavily helped by the name lmfao because you work for it
you're setting up your bullshit
prisma sun
Okay what if
marsh garden
and while "use multiple MAs" is like...already what you want to do
prisma sun
Hrmmmgh
marsh garden
it gives it a pleasing texture that just getting those attacks automatically doesn't, for me
prisma sun
Yeah thats the intended vibe
You're doing a full knights of the round thing on em
I am thinking of a flashy bonus
Which is "every successful attack knocks them back one range band you immediately follow, if this hits terrain roll a reflexive feat of demolition with Dex/Strength+Martial Arts"
My soul yearns for punching people through an entire building
marsh garden
i mean
"only pay for Charms once" is uh
about 300% of your flashy bonus
if you stripped that entirely you could add that
prisma sun
Oh that bit is cribbed from Firestorm Assault
I could retool it to be more complex tbh
marsh garden
but otherwise you gotta keep in mind that you're saving like
20-30 motes and like 3wp
prisma sun
Like "each attack can be buffed by a different martial art for free"
marsh garden
if you pick your MAs right
marsh garden
Oh that bit is cribbed from Firestorm Assault
that's a deeb signature that expends their aura and only works on deeb melee charms
it's real good for sure, esp. because it's half init
bleak hazel
"pay only once for enhancement charms" seems to be the very-definitely-solar-tier multiattack buff, it's the defining thing for Iron Whirlwind and mastery-level centipede capstone
marsh garden
remember that "pay once" includes wp and init, and hooo boy
there are a lot of strong MA charms with wp and init costs
prisma sun
But my initial change thoughts are make it one of the following
- Give it a set free mote budget on charms you can spend so that it doesnt scale out of whack
- Let you just freely change forms between strikes and add additional base effects to the attack
- Make it instantly kill Deathlords cuz fuck em
- Make it so each attack must be themed after a certain MA in particular
wise ocean
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nfzVDMD8igoNwh9ZftrzR__lm8N9HbGxt39KVZOOC78/edit?usp=sharing
I need to stop having ideas for Exalted characters. It just eats my entire night whenever I do.
anyway, think it's done
the character concept settled in some kind of horrible symbiosis of Bloodborne Choir + FFXIV Titania + Local58 Moon
bleak hazel
that is certainly an attribute spread that you can have
coral wraith
what the heck
marsh garden
local man discovers free will, cooks up the greatest att spread in history
wise ocean
indeed, I couldn't fit everything I wanted to sell the concept down at e2
bleak hazel
wait you have a copy of this sheet that has all the Infernal charms?
wise ocean
had to cut too much of dodge demat/sorcery/dance/being a remotely functional combatant
bleak hazel
can I possibly swipe it because man is manually inputting those a bastard
bleak hazel
ah yes that'd do it
I should really stop doing it properly and just start copy-pasting because getting the Custom Charms section to behave is kind of a pain
wise ocean
custom charms is nice for evos but when you hit Thirty Charms (i.e., an unreleased splatbook) it becomes unmanageable
it's kind of funny making a combatant that has exactly one actual trick, no combos, no nothing, just 25 dice unblockable/undodgeable piercing double 9s double 5 threshold sux 17 base damage
marsh garden
wha
wise ocean
mhm with 10 WP gets very funny
wise ocean
it definitely doesn't need buffs
people tend to interpret a lack of stuff to do as a lack of power
it's not complicated, it's really quite straightforward, but in doing so it's also a hard stat check
Are You A Bad Enough Dude To Fight That For 10m Every Round (+10 For Excellency If Actually Needed Somehow (It Won't Be))
coral wraith
lolol
wise ocean
mhm decisive kind of sucks but that's fine, you're a mhm user, you use it for giga withering and then translate that into a butterflies or raptor
coral wraith
(or flying guillotine)
marsh garden
alright anyway, off to work so just going to ping this again, if anyone ends up taking a look please let me know
marsh garden
mhm decisive kind of sucks but that's fine, you're a mhm user, you use it for gi...
butterflies don't add init so you'd just be doing it with raptor or guillotine
coral wraith
i wonder what the math on non-FGS guillotine vs max WP raptor is like
7 more dice at 3 for raptor, but doubles 9s /or/ crippling injury for FG
tulip folio
How many dice for each?
tulip folio
Lacking double 10s on decisive rolls does a lot.
coral wraith
yeah, for real
tulip folio
When you learn FG as a Necromancy Spell.
coral wraith
wise ocean
yeah, raptor only pulls ahead once you take on the bonfire DoT
bleak hazel
spamming raptors is a really mean deeb build as well, because you can get the fire deeb bonus on shape sorcery for it
Dragon-Sorceror Puissance
get fire aura and then just hold down the trigger, don't bother withering
velvet raft
Fireball spammmmmmmm
bleak hazel
pact with the ifrit lord shaping ritual, -3 SM cost for the spell takes it down to 12
velvet raft
There’s also that one merit for fire spells associated with the Ifrit initiation
Damn, beat me to it
bleak hazel
+3SM in fire aura from Dragon-Sorceror Puissance, (Essence) motes from the fire-drawing ritual, so at E3 you only need 6 sux on the roll to cast
which you can toss out pretty easily since the DB occult excellency is one of the ones with a cap-breaking dice trick
coral wraith
+3SM in fire aura from Dragon-Sorceror Puissance, (Essence) motes from the fire-...
What's Dragon-Sorcerer Puissance?
coral wraith
yeah, raptor only pulls ahead once you take on the bonfire DoT
I don't put much stock in it tbh but fair
bleak hazel
coral wraith
Hot damn
velvet raft
I still think ISOB’s inclusion there is kinda funny
Like, it probably means earth but
tulip folio
Someone forgot what 5 element system they were using.
'Okay so there's Wood, Earth, Fire, Water and...umm...Metal seems right?'
velvet raft
XD
tulip folio
...I wouldn't honestly be surprised if Autocthonia thinks the 5th element is metal.
As earth covers metal
And they've got a lot more metal than earth
velvet raft
I like to think that metal in Exalted is elementally neutral, really
What with the magic metals, and the focus on brass and bronze among demons
But I guess it could be earth since earth is the center
And fey hate iron
bleak hazel
realised I missed this ages ago: it's pretty borderline as written but I say go for it, it makes sense
light olive
Doesnt autocthonka have its own elements?
fierce star
It did, and they're still somewhat present, but sort of no not really not anymore
prisma sun
@marsh garden I got into that PJM game looks like
tulip folio
I miss the Autochonian elements. They were fun for giving Autocthonia a vibe of 'Oh yeah, this is stuff that didn't make it into Default Creation/were later prototypes'.
velvet raft
Doesnt autocthonka have its own elements?
Not in 3e, no, although wood in particular takes different forms than in Creation
Lots of techno-organic life
chilly sluice
oof
wise ocean
oof
velvet raft
That’s a shame, sorry to hear that man
prisma sun
Funnily enough they asked me to use my Liu association deeb
Which is the one I didnt make lol
velvet raft
Effort saved, I guess
bleak hazel
through a freak series of random discussions I am now fondly reminiscing about Five Dragon Style
the most boring martial art ever written
did have some neat lore though
coral wraith
How boring....
bleak hazel
behold the incredible naming scheme of Five Dragon Style
Five-Dragon Claw
Five-Dragon-Force Blow
Five-Dragon Fortitude
Five-Dragon Blocking Technique
Five-Dragon Form
Five-Dragon Fist
Five-Dragon Invulnerability
Five-Dragon Wrath
That's the whole style
it was explicitly an Immaculate martial art but dehydrated until all the elemental juice had left, to teach to deebs who wanted stock self-defence techniques without the commitment of full Immaculate initiation and training
coral wraith
I sleep
bleak hazel
It had a very obvious signature of white-and-red essence flames when you used the big moves, had a selection of Fuck Mortals effects that made its users basically invincible to the plebs while not adding a ton against peer opponents
Five-Dragon Invulnerability, for instance, was "perfect defence unless they have magic, in which case it's an overpriced soak adder"
it was perfectly designed to be the style of random NPCs or Act 1 villains who could oppress the mortals but not back any of their shit talk up against real fighters
but because 2e was so hyperlethal the second charm doubled your damage for 2m
which meant it could still go "hey fuckass Solar, did you buy a perfect?"
coral wraith
wha...
bleak hazel
this was about average for 2e, "halve the enemy DV" was a very cheap and mostly useless supplementary effect, as was "do 5000 damage"
marsh garden
lmao
bleak hazel
this was still a pretty shit low-tier martial art that no PC would ever be caught dead using because even deebs could learn celestial styles via some tier-up charms they had
limpid badge
Cost: 3m, 4i Mins: Essence 2
Type: Simple
Keywords: Perilous
Duration: Instant
Preq: Reminder of Dread
There is a place where the Black Blade’s former body dwells- a land of colorless fog and tumbledown ruins, a seabed dead since the dawn of time. When the blade sinks into the earth, it slays Creation and brings forth that Kingdom. A place of nightmares and deaths unmourned.
The wielder of the Black Blade drives it into the earth, slaying the small gods and elementals of a Medium range area centered on herself- this is a one-time environmental hazard with Difficulty (Melee) and Damage (Wakefulness)L. Against battlegroups, this damage is undodgeable?
it's an environmental hazard, so they will neither dodge nor parry
bleak hazel
it's an environmental hazard, so it also ignores hardness
limpid badge
oh true
Resonant: If the wielder is within Close range of a statue created by the Black Blade, she can pay a 3m surcharge to detonate the statue as part of this charm’s activation, adding (Ess) to the damage?
i am also thinking about doing this
bleak hazel
can probably go with "damage wakefulness + essence" for battlegroups because they have more effective health anyway
limpid badge
because i do need to figure out where to gate this and idk, having Wakefulness 2 being where you can actually do it means? ehh im not sure
im basing it on an abyssal perform charm and that's damage is (Ess or 3)
And while wakefulness can scale its probably going to be mostly around 2
limpid badge
can probably go with "damage wakefulness + essence" for battlegroups because the...
this is fair!
now i need something to do with the statue exploding
bleak hazel
you can always not have Resonance on every evo if you already have a few with it and don't need more embellishments on that charm in particular
limpid badge
its only got one resonance so far? i figured putting the two "eat a statue" effects there would be cute
oh wait, two, hrmn, i guess that's fair....
prisma sun
Is that the combination style
marsh garden
the secret technique that combines the IMAs i think
prisma sun
Ye that bit
spiral cosmos
yes
Five Dragon Form stands by itself
So there's no other stuff from Five Dragon style other than that
But that's fine imo because that Charm whips
tulip folio
Razor Tongued Socialite Invocation
Cost: 3m; Mins: Appearance 3, Essence 1
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: None
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None
The Wanderer knows some of the most important rules for survival in the cruel courts of the fey: Every weakness must be exploited.
This supplements an action that uses the Wanderer's appearance to add bonus dice to a roll. For this roll, she compares her appearance to the lower of the target's resolve or appearance.
Keys:
Eyeblight Distain(Essence 3): Hideous characters treat their appearance as two lower for this purpose.
Cruel Words of Praise
Cost: 5m; Mins: Appearance 3, Essence 1
Type: Simple
Keywords: Mute, Shaping(Fate)
Duration: Indefinite
Prerequisite Charms: Razor Tongued Socialite Invocation
Twisting the attention of the world around her finger, she direct its focus towards friends of foes. She reveals the beauty within the soul of even the most ugly forms and the imperfections on divine visages.
The Wanderer recontextualizes the looks of a character within medium range, rolling (Appearance + Presence, Linguistics or Occult) against his Resolve if he’s unwilling. An affected character gains or loses Hideous, as chosen by the Wanderer. This does not actually change a person's looks, simply allowing his best or worst qualities to shine through.
The Wanderer’s target may break free of this curse by accomplishing a legendary social goal (Exalted, p. 134) that reinforced his identity to all who see her.
Keys:
Inner Beauty Revealed(Essence 2): A character affected by this charm treats their Appearance as one higher or lower, as chosen by the wanderer when the charm is used. This does not stack with other sources of appearance increase.
Butterfly Cocoon Transformation(Essence 2, +1wp): For a one willpower surcharge, the recontextualization is so complete that recognizing an affected character as their original self by sight, scent, or voice is impossible without magic, and even then requires a (Perception + Awareness) roll at difficulty (Wanderers Appearance + Essence). This can’t disguise him as another individual.
Wanderer Appearance Charms: "U.G.L.Y, you Ugly!"
velvet raft
In mortalgame: our other dynast is currently trying to persuade her (exalted) brother that maybe he should not go around raiding and looting at will
velvet raft
tulip folio
Hmm...with sids not really getting any 'go fast' charms in athletics, is there any martial art that would be good to pick up for that purpose?
marsh garden
falcon's first charm gives decent movement
hungry ghost has a bunch of movement tech
coral wraith
Monkey has a double move charm but it's at E3
marsh garden
this is the big gap-closer option in hungry ghost
but its first charm is also reflexive move when you win JB
tulip folio
My weapons do allow Hungry Ghost, technically. XD
marsh garden
and one of the other movement tools
tulip folio
Devil Prince is Sword + Hatchet
And I do have some hatchets for 'emergency ranged attacks'
So I could genuinely use hungry ghost charms with my off-hand hatchet.
velvet raft
Hmm...with sids not really getting any 'go fast' charms in athletics, is there a...
Crystal Chameleon
The form charm gives movement bonuses and Light-Stepping Technique is rad
marsh garden
Flashing Fatal Strike you mean?
Stepping Beyond Light goes crazy, but flashing strike is the movement one
velvet raft
No, it’s like the second charm
tulip folio
Ah, yeah. That's good
marsh garden
ohh, Light-Treading Technique
look
Light-Treading Technique and Stepping Beyond Light and then the charm right below Stepping Beyond Light being another movement charm
god i want to play a CC sov
it looks so fun
bleak hazel
Also you're a Siddie, so you can dip CMOS at E3 and get amazing movement
Compatibility not a concern other than armour
velvet raft
*god* i want to play a CC sov
I want to play a CC anything ;_;
velvet raft
I’m optimistic I’ll get to keep playing in mortalgame
marsh garden
hell yeah
velvet raft
In which case I’m gonna bug my ST a lot
bleak hazel
Falcon Takes Flight is a really nice one for Sids because of how their dice cap treats successes
coral wraith
the falcon charm
tbh this is crazy on Sids since 3 auto-sux caps your dice
velvet raft
“I need to learn snake and CC, stat”
coral wraith
yup, Misc is right
marsh garden
it's also non-charm if you have wings and are going up
bleak hazel
or if you're a CMOS stylist and spent the round on skywalking
that being a Simple makes it hard to fit in sometimes but it also unlocks infinite demat works so there are worse simple scenelongs
velvet raft
Here’s light-treading, for reference
marsh garden
flashing fatal strike also fucking rules tbh
casual +10d decisive
literally just off of "being in form"
bleak hazel
Light-Treading also good because that's basically anima+1 noncharm dice
marsh garden
even a sov gets like 6 free dice and can net the last two with an action of setup
velvet raft
I think my MA shortlist for Lanying is:
- Snake
- CC
- Mantis dip
- Falcon dip
- White Reaper dip
- VBOS dip?
coral wraith
i will say that you gotta be careful going too ham with crystal chameleon if you're not a sid, going bonfire can often be Very Bad
velvet raft
The good news is that CC has several tools for spending anima
But either way I’m starting to fall for the imagery of Abyssal or Infernal CC
velvet raft
I think my MA shortlist for Lanying is:
- Snake
- CC
- Mantis dip
- Falcon dip
-...
Am I missing anything obvious here?
marsh garden
is all of this assuming sid or the abyssal you mentioned you thought was coming
velvet raft
Well, we got some foreshadowing involving birds
A red bird, a black bird, three gold birds
And the black bird looked at Lanying dead on
marsh garden
:)
what the fuck is the red one though
infernals are Green™️
otherwise i'd assume them
and the rest solars
velvet raft
Possibly Battles
marsh garden
ah right
velvet raft
Also Lanying had an earlier dream in which she was fighting and every time she struck a blow she suffered a terrible wound
So like
My bet’s on Abyssal
marsh garden
that's a crazy amount of MA, but at least being a mortal your stats are ridiculously padded
velvet raft
I mean. We’ll see what I actually take
velvet raft
Emerging out of the darkness to punch someone in the face
Anyway crucible rules does mean loading up on more charms
velvet raft
I mean. We’ll see what I actually take
My ST has stated any given MA needs a teacher to start out, so I’m sure I’ll have time to grab my Abyssal charms
velvet raft
Oh actually there’s a jerkass I could pick up a Fire Dragon dip from, come to think of it
And his brother probably knows some other styles
Problem: they are both dynasts
And one of them is
tulip folio
Venus: "I don't want to fix him, I want to make him worse."
coral wraith
classic Venus behaviour
marsh garden
velvet raft
Fortunately I think Lanying’s sexuality is of the same type as Monkey D. Luffy’s
spiral cosmos
i will say that you gotta be careful going too ham with crystal chameleon if you...
simply play it as a sovereign
i'm not gonna say i wrote it for Sovereigns but i certainly had them in mind-
tulip folio
Use the power of Absolutely Fabulous
velvet raft
i'm not gonna say i wrote it _for_ Sovereigns but i certainly had them in mind-
Wait you wrote CC? Siiiiiick
It’s like legit my fave martial art
spiral cosmos
Yes and i apologize profusely for parts of the tuning
Fixed that shit in final
But otherwise I love it too
I'm very happy with it
velvet raft
What got toned down, if I may ask?
spiral cosmos
the withering multi
light-treading technique i think
and... maybe part of the form and or capstone
velvet raft
The withering multi makes sense, yeah
spiral cosmos
my nefarious agenda of making martial arts capstones that end at e4 continues
who will stay my wicked hand
tulip folio
...huh, I wonder what changed with light-treading. Will need to compare documents at some point. XD
marsh garden
do you remember how the withering multi got kicked down?
spiral cosmos
i took away its cocaine for one
spiral cosmos
whatever way it wasn't benchmarked against the Water Dragon multi, we changed
marsh garden
"a person not named Ligier is never exiting crash"
spiral cosmos
give me a second i don't have the file on this laptop
marsh garden
oh, sorry, wasn't trying to prompt you to show it
spiral cosmos
i really don't mind
this is just math changes
if it was anything more substantial from a book I didn't dev then i wouldn't share but something like this is fine
marsh garden
ahhhh
Crashing Wave Style has some extra carve-outs
adds until she misses or crashes
makes sense
spiral cosmos
the multi attack change might just be a 5i surcharge
marsh garden
spiral cosmos
Crashing Wave Style is freaky in part because it only caps at (1 + wound penalties ) which can very easily be 3-5 attacks in a regular use-case
marsh garden
CC looks real meaty for a deeb...
i wonder if current deebs would be allowed Elders
and/or if a deeb could pick up an artifact to poach Transcendent anima somehow
tulip folio
Clearly you want to combo Crashing Wave Style with your Good Friend And His Flying Guillotine.
spiral cosmos
i'm gonna be real this is still kind of crazy, but I think it's arguably less crazy than Crashing Wave Style on the grounds that the second one does not cap Initiative gain
tulip folio
So someone has Double Wound Penalties from taking a crippling wound
coral wraith
neat
spiral cosmos
sovereigns stay winning
coral wraith
(also would i be interrupting to drop a homebrew sorcerous MA here)
spiral cosmos
you can look through here for the changes
velvet raft
(also would i be interrupting to drop a homebrew sorcerous MA here)
Your uh … Stormwind Rider one, right?
spiral cosmos
sovs are so cool
not entirely, but significantly a lot of the Miracles Sovereign expansion Charms were born out of a campaign I played with somebody's Ruby Aspect
coral wraith
Your uh … Stormwind Rider one, right?
yeah, I cleaned everything up and put it in a gdoc
marsh garden
i need to get miracles 😭
spiral cosmos
so i was like. okay this is a berserker knight lady who is very mean (affectionate) and aggressive, what kind of stuff naturally suits her in the narrative and gameplay space
maybe five or six of the charms there came out of that
coral wraith
it's Howl of the Silent Storm Style now
spiral cosmos
i didn't have any other experience playing with or as a Sovereign so that was my one data point
i think it was a good one, though
tulip folio
It's a very minor thing but CC is intriguing for how long it takes to really care about weapons. I'm looking at dipping One Wire and Light-Treading on a character who doesn't even use the weapons.
But 'rerolls' are golden for a Sidereal and this sid is going to be a Speedy One.
marsh garden
it's Howl of the Silent Storm Style now
oh is it not for Stormwind Rider anymore?
coral wraith
still is!
spiral cosmos
mario kart style
coral wraith
it's just a different naming schema
spiral cosmos
marsh garden
oh
coral wraith
having every sorcerous MA be (spell name) style would be uh
marsh garden
ic
coral wraith
boring
velvet raft
Actually … my foil in mortalgame has Stormwind Rider as a control spell …
Mind if I share it, briar?
coral wraith
Mind if I share it, briar?
go for it
here's the doc https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aB9XMJPal_yz9zxROrsjW_FHVk8RwukMtifR8hVSKeo/edit?usp=sharing
velvet raft
… you know, Laughing Monster is another style that feels like it could be bow-compatible
marsh garden
you can look through here for the changes
ah, Form is no longer -anima visual
reasonable lmfao
"fuck you, -6 visual penalty" at e4 is uhhhh
a little bit
even if celestials can swooce that
spiral cosmos
~~… you know, Laughing Monster is another style that feels like it could be bow-...
Laughing Monster Form counterattack to proc Soul-Marking Style without resetting Initiative
Ta da
Aim on every subsequent attack including the counterattacks
velvet raft
Niiiiiice
tulip folio
'Hey, I learned this trick from a Raksha' eats a man's soul
spiral cosmos
"fuck you, -6 visual penalty" at e4 is uhhhh
it was a little Too Much
in general i support terrestrials being able to punch above their weight
but. yeah lmao
fierce star
god I love Sovereigns.
spiral cosmos
my one actual criticisms of Sovereigns is that it was a mistake to not write Queen Ulu as a living NPC
Uluiru is just doing the Realm Civil War but smaller and that's boring
She should still be alive, just like, declining mentally or something so everyone has to deal with that
tulip folio
Bull In The North her. She's about and When She Falls Down it's gunna be a problem.
But she's not gone yet
spiral cosmos
house of the dragon alternatively
Tfw the Essence 5 Exigent god-queen has dementia and a bad temper
marsh garden
that would be real neat
fierce star
that sounds fun as hell
spiral cosmos
not my idea originally, but it was a really, really good one, so I just think about it sometimes
fierce star
I admit the Sovereign-focused campaing I want to run only uses the Uluiruan Civil War (Upcoming) as a backdrop
with the pitch being a strange, green-eyed mortal scholar has approached Uluiru and asked for the assistance of a Sovereign (or five, depending on how many PCs actually want to play sovs) to investigate ancient rumors about the Font of Glories that may explain more of it's origins and perhaps even strengthen it to help the city hold against the fair folk more easily
(TN note the scholar is an obvious sidereal and his goal is to figure out a way to either ressurect Aurora or use the Font to advanced another deity into the incarnae's position and purify the heart-eater shards)
tulip folio
Considering Exalted's history on resurrection, it's likely long odds there but I guess being a spirit, there's always 'You see, your god is only mostly dead' option.
fierce star
There's also just 'if enough of Aurora's power is left, maybe we can annoint another god. It's not likw e don't have his oldest daughter aroudn.'
marsh garden
nah, aurora's dead dead, but eating the rest of his power for like
his daughter
would make sense
sniped :(
fierce star
lol
marsh garden
fierce star
but yeah it's part of the reason my aurorals writeup has this charm as a foundational one:
Opaline Rebirth
Cost: 10xp, 20m, 2wp. Mins: Ess 1, App 1
Type: Simple
Keywords: None
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None
The Auroral must use this charm while touching the opal bones of a heart-eater after it's exaltation has been sealed into them. It does not function on a heart-eater who has any pawns remaining. The heart-eater's opaline skeleton crumbles into dust, and the exaltation within them is inverted again, turning into a new Auroral exaltation that immediately returns to Heaven. As part of this process, an Aurora can be seen for the next month, centered on the location this charm was used and visible out to five hundred miles.
Special: All Aurorals know this charm by default, until all Heart-eater exaltations have been saved. Should that occur, all Aurorals immediately gain a point of essence (up to essence 6), a point of willpower (up to willpower 10), and two free charms they qualify for.
because it's very partiuclalry wtitten to be a sequel to this bullshit, where 40 some odd hearteaters try to eat the font of glories but Player Characters Happen
fierce star
It'd be the climax of the campaign!
and it's only a tenth of the ones they have to heal eventually
marsh garden
it'd better be the climax 😭
i admit, i really do wish that heart-eaters were canon specifically because it feels odd for Aurora to have been what he was and fought, but not made Chosen
it makes me sense to me that having big cool anima guys is why he got murdered
i'm deeply sympathetic to the absence of HEs for all the rest of the reasons
umbrals i just want in their entire
i fiend for them
velvet raft
~~… you know, Laughing Monster is another style that feels like it could be bow-...
Was mainly thinking this because my mental image of fey is always somewhat Warmains From Nobilis
tulip folio
Being staff is likely because that's the Grace it's from...which does imply you could make a Cool Fey Sword Style...
velvet raft
Or I guess Warmains from Chuubo’s/Glitch
tulip folio
notes down 'Turn World-Devouring Warlord Style into a Martial Art'
velvet raft
Where Warmains are, among other things, depicted as fey riders with bows
tulip folio
...hmm...it's 'illusion army' theme would be cool, though working out how to make it work mechanically will be interesting.
velvet raft
Unleash the hounds?
Seriously, you could do an illusory wild hunt SMA
Or just MA
“Here I am on my horse with my war party and my hounds and we’re going to hunt you like an animal”
tulip folio
We've got a lot of offensive sword martial arts, I could see this one making use of the illusion stuff to be a defensive sword martial art. Does that sound too silly?
velvet raft
That tracks
tulip folio
I think that it will likely do with the stance and it's eventually upgrade is make Soft Cover + Difficult Terrain around you, as the enemy has to wade through semi-solid illusions of your making. They can't hurt people but they make trying to fight the martial artist a god damn pain.
marsh garden
i think i would rather see something other than sword martial art #7
or at least make it a greatsword martial art so it's just compatible with violet bier and not with even blade and single point too
bleak hazel
~~and it's only a tenth of the ones they have to heal eventually~~
are there four hundred hearteaters, in the event they're real? damn
marsh garden
yeah
bleak hazel
someone really has to find the 300 missing Sid shards sitting in a box because this is starting to get ridiculous
tulip folio
i think i would rather see something other than sword martial art #7
Sword is unfortunately kinda non-optional. As that's the Grace it comes from.
Christ there's so many of the fuckers
prisma sun
Oh yeah this reminds me, I now have nitro again
bleak hazel
Dream-Souled on the other hand are like, sideways terrestrials IIRC, so 25 is really not a lot
marsh garden
yeah, but i imagine that they're meant to be cohorts to exigents in count
tulip folio
...yeah, this looks like it could work very well as a defensive sword style. One of its main charms, Avatar of War is a counterattack against anyone who tries to attack you. So giving it some good defences, some counterattacks and some just absolutely fucking destroying battlegroups.
marsh garden
whereas hearteaters and umbrals are celestial, and there are fewer sids since they're solar-tier
100 to match the 150 solars, 100 abyssals, 50 infernals
tulip folio
The raksha performs the Dance of the World-Devouring Warlord, a sinuous kata that can be performed bare-handed or with any type of weapon. This dance tells the tale of his inevitable victory, and his story reaches out across a battlefield to instill in the hearts of his enemies the certainty of their defeat. The player of a raksha engaged in mass combat rolls (Dexterity + highest Sword Ability) against a difficulty equal to the Might of the opposing unit. Each threshold success reduces the Magnitude of the unit by 1, as affected mortals lay down their arms in hopeless surrender. If the Dance of the WorldDevouring Warlord is used against a solo unit, the player makes the same roll against the target’s Dodge MDV. If the roll succeeds, the target suffers a -5 internal penalty on all combat-related rolls for the remainder of the scene.
This is the old capstone of it. 2e rules but I feel like this could easily be turned into a charm.
Against a single guy, it's a shaping(fate) debuff.
Against a battlegroup it just eviscerates them.
fierce star
i don't think sids are solar tier
marsh garden
i wonder if liminals are also going to be like, 100-ish
their high-essence charms are, including SMA
actually, does Essence give a liminal count?
and/or rough counts for the current apocryphals
velvet raft
i don't think sids are solar tier
They’re not, although as with Lunars the power divide is soft enough that they can often keep up
fierce star
yeah, the divide btween soalroid and celestial is much smaller than previous editions, but a sidereal is still not as strong as a solar I feel like, even with SMA and prayer strips.
bleak hazel
with SMA they are solar-tier in the specific area of combat, at least at higher essence when they actually have them and supernal isn't so huge
not so much anywhere else
although their social suite blows Solars (barring like four broken charms) out of the water due to the curse of linear time
tulip folio
Curse of Linear Time would be a very funny sid charm.
marsh garden
combat, healing, stealth, and social
the first two from SMAs + versatile
stealth (looking at abyssal and infernal stealth) from uhhh everything
tulip folio
with SMA they are solar-tier in the specific area of *combat*, at least at highe...
Now if only there were some SMA with more weapon options than 'unarmed, maybe staffs'. XD
bleak hazel
solaroid stealth blows Sid stealth out of the water
Sids have lots of really fun stealth effects but they don't just fold the dice curve up and throw it in the bin like Blinding Battle Feint does
prisma sun
Sids are really good at engaging with the systems of the game
Solars are so good they remove systems from the game entirely
velvet raft
Sid stealth does not do a ton of physical stealth
marsh garden
i was more thinking about how sids are immune to being perceived without an absolute immunity
at high ess
(only if you're a sicko, but)
bleak hazel
arcane fate takes a while to kick in, you can still see the guy right in front of you no matter how much they intensify it
velvet raft
It does a shit-ton of wacky mind stuff
Also Sid physical stealth is located mostly in athletics and dodge
bleak hazel
and Bureaucracy, in a sideways manner
Citrine Poxes is kind of a Solar tier medical suite in the sense that it can treat everything except the Great Contagion, it just doesn't have the fuck-you-megaheal expansions that Solar Medicine has
velvet raft
I love how much of Sid bureaucracy is arm-twisting
bleak hazel
due to how the game systems work out you have all the stuff you actually need in there, which is good because Sid Medicine is most effective on dead people
velvet raft
“The beatings will continue until morale improves” <- Sid bureaucracy
marsh garden
that's also sid sail
bleak hazel
I think an E3+ Sid can absolutely hang in there with solaroids as long as their area of focus isn't about dice trick count
(since nothing they can do mechanically is going to get them N/A crafting, for instance)
bleak hazel
yeah, the divide btween soalroid and celestial is much smaller than previous edi...
have prayer strips ever been a punch-up mechanic? they're just kind of a thing, unless you mean the old 2e SMA sutras
a cool way to do capstones
tulip folio
“The beatings will continue until morale improves” <- Sid bureaucracy
What, you don't like the Aggravated Damage Anti-Slacker Poison?
bleak hazel
saw someone use that in PVP once
we had to stop and poll the audience on whether the abyssal that just got tagged had ever done any corruption as part of the Company of Martial Sinners
(she hadn't and was fine)
velvet raft
I love it
prisma sun
I do find it very funny though
that a full circle of Solars most likely gets killed by a full circle of Sids just because every Sid genetically knows kung fu
fierce star
have prayer strips ever been a punch-up mechanic? they're just kind of a thing, ...
They're a punch up in that they're like... Singularly powerful capstones that you can Just Get for having invested in that tree a decent amount, since they're 'any 10 ability charms'. I think they're more powerful and easier to generally 'get' to than lunar capstones, anyway.
marsh garden
lunars have great charms. half their capstones are dogshit
the other half are great
bleak hazel
I've never really found most of the prayer strip charms massively compelling
although they do have incredible drip because each of them comes with a poem to recite as you do your awesome move
(well, Neighborhood Relocation Scheme is pretty hot, as is the Craft capstone)
marsh garden
(well, Neighborhood Relocation Scheme is pretty hot, as is the Craft capstone)
you don't like Conning Chaos?
velvet raft
The Athletics prayer strip is wild
Especially for stealth builds
But really for anyone who can get silly with flurries
Re: Lunars, I think they suffer from charm bloat in a way that compromises their ability to be crazy generalists
bleak hazel
Conning Chaos has never really grabbed me
velvet raft
But at least they can swing giant pools on Everything via excellencies
bleak hazel
melee capstone is incredibly hype but I'm always so deep in scenelongs at that point I can't afford it
maybe if I ever do Melee into CMOS and somehow reach E5
tulip folio
Alchs manage that 'generalist' thing a bit better I feel with the charm slot situation.
velvet raft
Yeah
marsh garden
and they don't have horrendous mote inefficiency
although that comes at early-game cost, of course
tulip folio
Lunars would manage 'generalist' a bit better imo if there were any animals with capabilities outside of 'combat' and 'stealth'
velvet raft
The way I’d like to imagine it is that Sids can beat solars by cheating, and lunars can beat solars by changing the arena
tulip folio
But no one has yet create a statline for endearingly stupid small dogs,
That have double 9s on being stupid and charming.
marsh garden
lunars beat solars by throwing wave after wave of disposable soakbeast at them
tulip folio
I wonder if it would break sids if those various get into SMA enlightments did let you mesh SMA and Existing Non-SMA Martial Arts that use that weapon.
velvet raft
The way I’d like to imagine it is that Sids can beat solars by cheating, and lun...
But lunar charms are too spread out for most lunars to effectively be good at four different things
I would love it if that was their deal, though
bleak hazel
It would probably make combat ability plus MA a little too much of a no-brainer
velvet raft
I guess, but maybe specifically don’t compress the Punch In The Face charms
Like how sid melee and brawl are still relatively sprawling?
tulip folio
This is reminding me of something I was pondering with Wanderers on the 'a little flexibility' front.
Universal Charms
Wyld Keymaster
Essence 3
Simple
One Story
The Wanderer gains one key they meet all prerequisites for until the end of the story. This charm can be purchased a second time at essence 5.
Reset: Once per story per purchase.
Not a fully 'redo my charms' but 'I can push one of my existing charms a little further than my expertise would allow'
bleak hazel
Brawl is very efficient, you can get to DSD with three charm buys
but it's more "why would you ever go pure melee + SMA in that situation"
velvet raft
And just less bloat
marsh garden
yeah
velvet raft
Like, Lunar stealth has some wild tricks
But it feels like you should need 2/3 the number of charms to get to them
marsh garden
it also just has
so many of the same thing
i know these are different charms and you can stack them etc. etc. and it's very good that you can stack them
bleak hazel
That you don't fix with keys, Infernals still have tons of charms everywhere, but they are slightly lighter on the prereqs
marsh garden
they are both, nonetheless, "here's an expensive dice trick specifically for pickpocketing"
bleak hazel
I think the main advantage of keys is just being able to view the tree without your eyes glazing over
marsh garden
that's why i said it would be for layout reasons
velvet raft
… here’s a thought: what if Lunars had something like submodules?
marsh garden
different from keys in that they're cheaper? yeah, i would be fine with that
velvet raft
Would that step too much on alch toes?
velvet raft
different from keys in that they're cheaper? yeah, i would be fine with that
And have variable costs
marsh garden
submodules are basically just a standardization of things that kind of already exist
like the assorted familiar charms that go "you can do x and y and buy more of this for 3xp"
or adding extra powers to your elemental/crypt bolt
velvet raft
I think they’re good design
marsh garden
i think they're very good design
bleak hazel
For Alchs they're more important than just formatting changes because they don't take charm slots
velvet raft
Yep
prisma sun
I think a lot of Lunar juice could be added by just adding more form variation
marsh garden
oh right, more lunar stealth charms that are just The Same Fucking Thing
prisma sun
and letting Mutations count as Protean
marsh garden
these are, again, very different charms
they're both "e1 4m dex charm that cuts one penalty from stealth"
velvet raft
They even have the same prereq
marsh garden
and the formatting here just...makes that feel like shit, even if they're both helpful?
prisma sun
I also think Lunars should be able to use martial arts in animal form so long as the form is thematically relevant
bleak hazel
Please no
That particular one would just be insane, animal forms are already absurdly strong
marsh garden
again
prisma sun
Fucka u, Heaven Thunder Hammer exists in this world, and by Luna the Solar Host must be killed to a man by Bears doing Bear Style
marsh garden
two different charms
bleak hazel
The ability to use kung fu in DBT or regular human shape is what keeps them kind of competitive with just being a bear
velvet raft
But yeah, pie in the sky: a version of lunars with keys for clarity and like, half-cost sub-keys that can cover specific stuff at less cost
marsh garden
"reroll E or 3 dice on an attack roll" with the latter just being any
both useful! Why Are They Both Here?
velvet raft
Blooaaaaat
marsh garden
oh right, and also Weapon-Snatching Coils adjacent
which is just "the same charm but you use it on a disarm instead of an attack"
and...i think gambits all count as attacks anyway?
tulip folio
Gambits are attacks, yes
marsh garden
just not if it calls out decisive attacks, even though they're called decisive attacks
so it's Yet Another Charm that does the same thing
for a non-lunar example of the same thing which is really funny
very different in practice, but it's just the same charm twice
"decisive with extra damage based on up to 3+ of These Exact Conditions"
adjacent to each other on the page
with no overlap
they aren't even both prereqs for another charm that does that
i'm not annoyed about this one like i am with lunars, because it's like, the only offender
it's just really funny
bleak hazel
Hell even Sids have flash step and then slightly faster and more expensive flash step
spiral cosmos
melee capstone is incredibly hype but I'm always so deep in scenelongs at that p...
wsav for excellency reduction is your friend
bleak hazel
I have WSAV, HER and Ways of Exaltation on full blast, I just sold my soul to PAOC Form
any other SMA and I'd be good for the cool blindfold, I think
spiral cosmos
mote costs are a motherfucker
velvet raft
Yea
But it is also 4 different forms XD
So it’s ultimately discounting them significantly
marsh garden
aye
all of the other PAOC forms are 1wp too, right?
so it's skimping on like 2wp as well
velvet raft
It’s the bread-and-butter style
Except like
A delicious bagel
With scallion cream cheese
marsh garden
artifact unarmed, immune to crippling, +2 fake essence, massive discounts, free mote-init-wp shenanigans, free wp extorting + massive defenses, free motes, free damage, fucking addiction to yourself
bleak hazel
PAOC Form is the good stuff but man do you spend all the XP getting there
velvet raft
It’s the everything-bagel-and-scallion-cream-cheese style
spiral cosmos
paoc form is basically just The Funny Button. at that point your hypothetical dollcrafting scenarios are just "everything"
prisma sun
PAOC didn't appeal to me tbh but I think it's just because I think CMOS just is a billion times my favorite
spiral cosmos
u can just do anything
bleak hazel
Especially if you're me and going for the 3 form multi pack
velvet raft
It’s less expensive if you actually want to use all of PAOC
bleak hazel
Yeah, I use it to make funny whiterooming sheets that can fistfight Ligier (and still lose sometimes)
marsh garden
PAOC didn't appeal to me tbh but I think it's just because I think CMOS just is ...
CMOS mechanically goes crazy, but OSOI has my heart because of its scripture
bleak hazel
My actual characters tend to use PAOC as a buffet rather than buying straight up all of it
spiral cosmos
i think every SMA basically, like, in order to really sing requires at least one effect that might get you to say "What the fuck? They can do that?" out loud
spiral cosmos
i have very mixed feelings about bkol
but i'm probably its biggest apologist in terms of being like a 3e version would whip
bleak hazel
CMOS is probably my mechanical favourite so far because I don't think it has a single charm I dislike but I'm looking forward to selling my soul to Sapphire Veil
marsh garden
BKOL's scripture rules, yeah
i think i would actually kill anyone who told me they used it in 2e though
(okay all of the charms are super cool)
velvet raft
I’ve talked about this before but I also feel like it does a weird amount to provide Kejak with characterization
bleak hazel
PAOC has a lot of really cute ludonarrative integration that I enjoy but it's kind of your "baseline" SMA, insofar as there can be such a thing
marsh garden
(i would probably use it myself on the Most Evil Motherfucker Alive)
bleak hazel
It takes whatever style you already had and makes it cool and weird
velvet raft
The first half of BKOL is extraordinarily mean and cynical
prisma sun
which one is BKOL
marsh garden
I’ve talked about this before but I also feel like it does a weird amount to pro...
the way it shows like, misanthropic youth for everything up to the capstone?
where it goes "ah. the world is beautiful"
marsh garden
which one is BKOL
Kaleidoscopic Border of Logic, which we keep misordering
marsh garden
Chejop Kejak's personal style in 2e
all of its charms until the capstone are like
"remove a person's ability to think, but not suffer"
"make a person a genius but utterly incapable of communicating in any way ever again"
velvet raft
The second half of BOKL shows a genuine affection for creation
marsh garden
"strip a person of the ability to form memory"
and then the last charm is "make a world in which everyone can be their best self"
to do a cool fight in
it's like an e9 charm
KBOL was e6-e8 or e9
prisma sun
Y'know
prisma sun
I also never really read Ablicant
velvet raft
And like, to me that demarcation is Chejop
marsh garden
Humans have great power in them, gifts from their creators sadly contained and constrained by their silly little clay bodies. If they could open that flesh and step out, they could express a smidgen of their potential. Instead, they sit and bake in their prisons of mud, just waiting to be cracked open. This Charm blows breath on that small spark of power all creatures received from their Primordial makers and gives it enough fuel to blossom into a raging wildfire.
velvet raft
A man who genuinely, deeply believes in not just what he’s doing but that the world can be better
bleak hazel
2e BOKL is narratively sick as hell and mechanically unplayable, like most 1/2e SMAs
with the one exception of Sapphire Veil, which was at least functional
velvet raft
A man who genuinely, deeply believes in not just what he’s doing but *that the w...
And who believes that if he can microwave enough infants he will get there
prisma sun
what does the transformation do if you don't actually take anyone into your domain
velvet raft
what the fuck does the capstone even....do...
You go play a completely different game
bleak hazel
You ascend to a higher dimension and play Civilization 5 instead of a Kung Fu fight
It literally lets you replace the fight with Uno
prisma sun
But you don't do anything actually
bleak hazel
although it's meant to be more Azad from TPOG as far as I'm aware
Most domain expansions don't do anything if you don't actually include the targets
The thing that makes that actually useless is mostly "pay 3wp to opt out" which just leaves you alone in the tabletop simulator dimension looking like a dipshit
prisma sun
yeah
this would be really cool if other people are brought into your domain
but it seems like they forgot to include that bit?
bleak hazel
You can pick anyone in the scene to include
marsh garden
that's the first line yeah
bleak hazel
There's just a breakout clause that is trivial for a move that big
marsh garden
At the moment of this place’s construction, the martial artist can include any or all people within his line of sight in his new world, at any level of selectivity. This is no invitation. Anyone the character desires in his pocket realm appears there and perceives it. What nature the sentient “inhabitants” take depends on the nature of the place. They might be the mountain ranges themselves or each a warring society amidst the tree’s roots. In the technological world, they might become competing nations or heroes versus decay. In the ailing body, they could be fighting to save it or to kill it from within. No one is bound to stay on this battlefield. Each person subject to the Charm can spend three points of Willpower to escape the constructed place into the real world.
unforchies, the last line
Birth of the Perfect Ego Juggernaut is a very funny name for a very fucked effect
prisma sun
Mine doesn't say this
bleak hazel
There's a much more readable Essence version of BOKL but sadly it doesn't have giga domain expansion
marsh garden
no
bleak hazel
we're talking about Meditative Battlefield Escalation
bleak hazel
which is so big they linked it
marsh garden
i'm fascinated at the idea of what it would be in 3e
Last Heart Enclosure, Perfect Ego Juggernaut, and Kaleidoscopic Disrecognition Atemi are very waow
prisma sun
Damn Ablicant is mean
prisma sun
Yeah Ablicant Sepulchur
marsh garden
(albicant)
(a dull white)
it's v mean yeah
i've been told it's not very good, but it looks fun
bleak hazel
It's very mean, it's just all raid boss stuff so you might not get amazing value from all the Simple AoEs in a duel
bleak hazel
The mega decisive that hits you in the resolve is a bastard
marsh garden
i recognize no sigs
prisma sun
I don't normally but the signature dawn is noteworthy enough to me to notice in art
If only because I recognize him from my favorite piece of art
bleak hazel
Volfer is just enough of a jobber to be endearing but not enough to be devoid of respect
He's great
prisma sun
marsh garden
god
every fucking time i forget about this art
and then something like this or my return to trawling core flashbangs me
marsh garden
bro's just obliterating that poor ape
prisma sun
also
Spider footage ||https://va.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_r5s2pkDTja1r6a1vc_720.mp4 ||
Drifts upon encountering one (1) Abyssal
prisma sun
apologeeze
fierce star
Volfer is just enough of a jobber to be endearing but not enough to be devoid of...
He's also trolled DBs by declaring his junk personally approved by Mnemon, so I gotta give him that
prisma sun
Wasn't it the Scarlet Empress
bleak hazel
I thought it was personally approved by Big Red
prisma sun
yea
fierce star
it might've been big red, I thoguht I got corrected last time when I sadi it was
one second checking core
bleak hazel
which if anything is slightly more plausible
fierce star
it is the empress
I forgot I wasn't incorrect and corrected myself incorrectly
many such cases
regardless: approval for balls
prisma sun
The big thing with Ablicant is that it does seem fairly easy to just remove all of the enemy's artifacts from the scene
which seems Hella Fucked on it's own terms
Yeah like
Ablicant isn't a form for "I am going to duel you and serenly kill you instantly"
This is "I am gonna walk into this army and kill everyone visible"
THIS seems broken
"Fuck you, boost 2 defenses simultaniously or die"
marsh garden
the l is before the b voy 😭
prisma sun
that's cuz you can Lick my Balls 😎 
😎 🔥🔥🔥
I wonder if I have a reading disorder sometimes tbh
I do like how with the Chair spell + Albicant you can make an entire Abyssal martial artist who's gameplan is to show up and sit there
prisma sun
What other charms can we put that are just investing motes to sit there
God-Scourging Wail
marsh garden
i wish you could god-scourging wail with albicant sepulchur charms
i do want to try and wheedle an ST into letting me run God-Scourging Wail with Silver-Voiced Nightingale lol
if i get another abyssal
prisma sun
You can't but you can just pop the form with all it's bullshit and then activate LAS
Oh shit
the Deathlords are literally just the Ascians
-Powerful champions from a distant past
-Had their world stolen from them because of their own placation and corruption
-Now live in a world of neverending shadow
-Look like normal dudes but can assume giant powerful warforms
-Raidbosses
-Sexy
-Really Sad
bleak hazel
oh it's in strength
huh
I suppose that's where Claws of the Silver Moon live
it lasting for only one turn is a bit of a bugger but no WP cost is neat
and you can make anything you like
marsh garden
yeah it's v sideways
i'd call Essence Pulse Cannon closer to their "regular" artifact maker
velvet raft
Realizing one of the DBs in our Wyld hunt is the warrior nobility version of Scott Pilgrim
prisma sun
what
velvet raft
This is after he and his men raided a village
With the excuse that they insulted him
spiral cosmos
Kaleidoscopic Border of Logic, which we keep misordering
Border Of Kaleidoscopic Logic style is the original name, though, I thought
spiral cosmos
The first half of BKOL is extraordinarily mean and cynical
I think it's less a direct combat suite than a mystical torturer's toolkit, honestly
This is a feature to my mind
velvet raft
It’s the meanest, nastiest ways Chejop could think of to destroy human lives
Or perhaps more to the point: to render someone harmless to his work
spiral cosmos
BKoL runs into a few problems in adapting for 3e, not the least of which is perception as a theme is already kind of taken for a future SMA, and enlightenment more generally is inherent to every SMA,so it kind of needs to lean into what makes it unique? Which to my mind is the way it scrambles people and is generally just extremely cynical, as well as kind of hard to define and constantly shifting
I would just cut the elder sutra and rename or remove any name from the younger sutra and let it be kind of gnomic
marsh garden
Border Of Kaleidoscopic Logic style is the original name, though, I thought
it is and i'm a baboon, it's just inverted from the usual order so i double-punked myself
bleak hazel
the elder sutra is admittedly my favourite part
velvet raft
I would just cut the elder sutra and rename or remove any name from the younger ...
That seems like a good play from a game-usability perspective, although I confess I hesitate because I like the dynamic of the two scriptures so very much
prisma sun
I do kinda wish there was an SMA that was the whole Itachi Sharingan thing going on
spiral cosmos
The Kaleidescopic Logic of the title, as far as I can deduce, is the overwhelming, irreversible, impossible-to-handle understanding that everything about reality is fake, is a trap, is made to be trapped, is a delusion that humans are too fragile to handle normally, but if they can get overthemselves and out of themselves they can find 'everything'. It's nihilistic and cruel, and kind of self obsessed, I think? Like, the Form (So much for freedom) is you literally just possessing a dude
fierce star
Echo Of The First Forge, Primordial Brass Artifact (*****)
This is a small chunk of brass. It burns with ever-shifting hues of flame. Once, it was part of something greater; it has known the touch of those who created everything. In the war that cast them down, the First Forge was sundered, shattered, broken; only this echo remains.
Special Rules: Those Exalted by the power of living or dead Primordials are Resonant with the Echo of the First Forge--Alchemicals, Abyssals, Infernals, and Dragonblooded (through their connection to Gaia).
Attunement: 8m
Evocations of the First Forge
The Right Tool
Cost: NA. Mins: Essence 1
Type: Permanent
Keywords: Resonant
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisites: None
This evocation allows the wielder of the Echo of the First Forge to produce and ready an Exceptional quality mortal tool or weapon in the normal time to do so, provided that weapon or tool can be wielded in one or two hands. The first time such a tool or weapon is produced, it appears out of thin air, ready in the bearer's hand. Afterwards, it floats in a halo around the bearer, within arm's reach at all times, until the Echo is no longer attuned. Up to [Essence * 3] objects may be within this halo at any one time; older objects disappear into the dreams that once created them. Other people may use these tools or weapons, but taking them from the halo without the bearer's permission requires a Disarm gambit at difficulty 4.
That's pretty bleak and selfish
If it's a revelation, it's using the revelation to take someones freedom because they never had it in the first place
fierce star
maybe this is a thing? maybe it isn't?